City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 5 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council Land Use Committee, August 5, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=7409

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Let me go ahead and call to order this meeting of the land use committee of the.

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City council for wednesday august 5th, 2020.

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And we have one item on the agenda: ordinance, 2013.

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Which would amend the preliminary plan and district ordinance for the thompson.

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Pud to add 8.46 acres to allow 70.

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Single-Family lots uh built by habitat for humanity.

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uh Mr garlick, are you going to start us out with a presentation.

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I am whenever you are ready, just holler go ahead.

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uh So I just want to make sure everybody can see my screen.

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Yes, blink once, if yes great, um so this is a request for habitat for.

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Humanity to amend the district ordinance for the.

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Thompson pud to add approximately 8.46 acres.

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To the thompson pud so shown on the right side,.

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Of the screen is a general site location um real quickly. I just kind of give an.

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Overview of of the site, uh the site is currently.

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Undeveloped, there is one house uh and garage that is on the southeast.

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Corner of the site at the end of guy avenue, so a couple.

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Things to point out about this location that you can see.

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There are five stub streets that extend into this property along the.

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East side, you have cherokee, drive chambers, drive.

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Duncan drive and guy avenue and then on the south side of the.

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Site, you have bernard drive that stubs into the street stubs.

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Into this property, just to the west of this, you have the.

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Rca community park to the north of this is vacant land that.

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Is owned by the county and I'll just script to the ariel real.

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Quick, so you can see a couple things so on this land to the north. That is.

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Owned by the county, there is a large electric transmission line that.

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Runs through that property, so you can kind of see that clearing.

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That runs through there. That is important, because the parks.

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Department has been working on a plan to provide a multi-use.

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Path through this property, uh this property.

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And this transmission line stretches all the way over to weimer.

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Road to the west and connects to the clear creek trail is.

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Close to the wapahani park, and, what's also important to note, is.

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This transmission line stops at rogers street, which is almost.

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The front door of the switch yard park, so the parks.

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Department has been looking at this corridor for a long time for a multi-use.

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Path and they're getting a lot closer to developing a plan for.

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That um so this property, that is being.

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Proposed to be developed right now, as I mentioned, is currently undeveloped, um and here is a zoning map of of the.

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Entire area, so you can get kind of an overview of what's happening here. So I've highlighted the thompson pud.

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With the bold black line, that kind of wraps around.

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Various parcels here so the site that we're talking about is the the dashed.

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Area on the southeast portion, so the thompson pud.

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Allowed for single-family residences along the southeast portion of the pud.

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Adjacent to these single-family lots because they recognized it was adjacent.

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To the single-family area, single-family loss were appropriate.

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Within this portion of the pud, so the petitioners habitat for humanity.

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Are looking to expand the boundaries of the pud to add in an additional eight and a half acres to allow for this.

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Area to be developed in a uniform manner for 70 single-family lots so real.

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Quickly, this is that site plan, so the site plan shows connections to.

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All of those stub streets to the east, so they are extending through the site.

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With public street connections, one of the things to note about those.

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Existing stub streets and I'll just kind of show that.

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Real briefly, if you can see that on this map here, um the stub streets, uh cherokee chambers, duncan and guy.

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Are very narrow, both in amount of asphalt and right-of-way.

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Some of them don't even have dedicated right-of-way.

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So one of the things that we struggled with with this petition.

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As with all, petitions is trying to connect a property.

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With adjacent sidewalks streets in order to provide transportation.

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Routes for everybody vehicles, pedestrians, bicyclists,.

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So we ran into a lot of difficulty due to the narrow.

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And in some cases, almost non-existent uh right away on these existing streets to.

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Have sidewalk connections um so that kind of comes into play a.

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Little bit um as we directed the petitioner to.

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Work with the parks department on utilizing.

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This uh proposed multi-use path along this electric line along the north side.

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um To help facilitate pedestrian connectivity in this area.

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um So I'll just kind of go back to the site plan here.

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So the site plan shows sidewalk connections on.

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All of the internal streets, um so, even though there are not sidewalks to stub.

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Into currently um on the adjacent sub streets to the east.

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All of the internal roads here are public and we'll.

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Have sidewalks and tree plots on both sides.

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One of the other features that will be incorporated with this petition is a.

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Multi-Use path, uh that kind of runs east-west to the.

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Site that connects to the rca park to the west.

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um There's a little loop path that runs along the multi uh that runs along the.

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Rca park boundaries uh that this would be tying into, so this.

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Provides a direct connection to some of the pedestrian facilities within that.

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Part as well as I mentioned, there are sidewalk connections along all of the streets throughout the development uh that connect to those stub streets.

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um So the proposed site plan has been laid out following the traditional.

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Subdivision um layout, which emphasizes grid like network of streets,.

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And alley loaded garages, um so the petitioner has an alley.

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Running through the middle of the site, um the majority of those lots are all.

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Accessed from there's another alley just to the east of that that those lots are accessed from.

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So there are only a few lots within this development that don't have alley loaded.

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Access and the main reason for that along these.

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Western lines is to preserve the existing trees.

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So, although there are not stands of mature trees on the interior site, the.

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Perimeter of the site does have some good quality trees. That petitioner will.

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Be saving so that's one of the main reasons why they didn't incorporate further alleys here.

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Along the boundaries was to preserve those trees.

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So the proposed site plan that you see before you has a mix of attached.

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And detached single-family residences, these are being shown on small lots.

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Around 3000 square feet and the overall layout and design of.

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This is is very similar uh to the other habitat project along.

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The beeline trail on moribeck way so they're following that same kind of.

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Successful model uh with this site as well, so there are.

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Several renderings um that the petitioner has brought.

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Forward uh for the houses within here, as with that other development along.

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More vectorway they've got several different housing type options to try to get some diversity uh among the different residences here. So you see a difference in.

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Porch design, uh roof design um little things to try to introduce some.

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Diversity within these residences here so this rendering here is looking along.

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That multi-use path that I mentioned, that runs through the.

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Site and connects to the rca park to the west.

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um So this is kind of how that would look with the trees along there.

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And some of the residences, as I mentioned they're.

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Looking to incorporate as much diversity as possible.

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So these are some possible renderings, showing a couple different housing types.

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For the attached and detached residences within here.

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Again, variations in porch design, roof alignment um and and just small.

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Little things that can help break up the diversity within the.

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Development, so some of the things that make this pud.

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Unique or that they're requesting to deviate from the.

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R4 standards again are very similar to some of the things that were varied with.

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The other development, the rear yard setback, has been reduced.

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From 25 feet to 20 feet, the minimum lot width is being reduced.

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From 35 feet to 30 feet, the minimum lot size is being brought.

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Down from 4 000 to 3 000 square feet, um and then one of the things that I.

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Mentioned was the number of lots that are ali served. uh The traditional subdivision type requires 67.

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Of the lots loss be served by the alley um and this petition proposes 57.

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um So the plan commission did review this petition.

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um And they reviewed this based on a lot of the guidance that are in the.

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Comprehensive plan, uh you know the comprehensive plan.

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Encourages connectivity uh as much as possible, both vehicles and.

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Pedestrians, which this petition accomplishes uh this.

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Petition has accomplished a good deal, amount of.

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Tree preservation along the perimeter, um this location is immediately adjacent.

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To a community park as well as is.

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Very close to the switch yard park, so this is an.

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Excellent location for single-family residences.

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The reduction in the lot sizes and standards.

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Helps add additional density meeting a lot of the housing needs of the.

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Community, certainly something that was certainly highlighted in the housing study that was just released this week.

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So this petition accomplishes many of the goals in the comprehensive plan.

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Owner occupied single-family housing, affordable housing.

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So the planning commission voted nine to zero uh to forward this to the common.

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Council with a favorable recommendation and the six.

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Conditions uh that are listed in the memo to the council and also displayed on the screen here um so with that I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have.

A

Thank you, mr garlic. um Is there anybody here from.

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Habitat who would like to speak at this time.

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Yeah, um this is nate from habitat for humanity,.

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Could you please state your full name just for the rest, yeah hold on just like.

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Can we turn I'm just kidding uh nathan ferreira, I'm the director of.

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Land development and production with habitat all right, we're still.

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Getting that echo, if you can do anything about that, that would be.

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Appreciated, can you hear it now.

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Yes, if you have earbuds or earphones that.

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Might help you want to try that it's fun? Oh, that.

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Sounds better okay, great um and I just wanted to give.

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A little introduction about habitat- if that's okay, um yes, go.

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Ahead, go ahead and share a screen here.

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um So uh thanks for having us this evening,.

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um This has been a project, that's been years incoming. um My screen is not.

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Kinds of technical difficulties hold on just a second.

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Well, I'll just jump right in um I can skip.

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Ahead a couple um spots there so um so habitat our goal is to build.

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Affordable housing for low-income families here in monroe county.

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um Our philosophy is there in front of you.

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Our families go through classes where they take financial planning classes.

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Home maintenance contribute sweat, equity hours toward.

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Toward their houses and sorry, I'm having a number of pop-ups.

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Here, um as you know, um our community is in great.

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Need of low-income housing, um we're known as the most expensive.

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Expensive place to live uh in the state, there's a couple stats.

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There for you to share I'm going to jump ahead here.

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Our habitat houses, currently average appraisals of 150 000.

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Mortgage payments do not exceed 30 percent of the homeowner income.

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um And I think one of the questions that came up beforehand is.

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Mortgages in excess of the homeowner payments are put into a second soft.

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Mortgage that are forgiven when the primary.

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Mortgage is paid off and those second soft mortgages average.

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50 000, another question that I understood we had beforehand was just um habitat.

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Retains the first ride of refusal.

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For buying back every habitat house for the life of the mortgage.

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And I and nine times out of ten, we put another habitat family in that house.

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um So those many of our homes we've been around since 1988.

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And the majority of our homes have remained low income.

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Because we continue to put habitat houses in those houses as we buy them.

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Back creating long-term affordability.

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As eric mentioned, osage place will allow us to.

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Build out 70 units I'll just add one thing to what eric.

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Mentioned with the paired homes, we have six.

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Paired homes that will result in 12 units.

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And um four of those lots uh would be the 30.

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Foot width, uh whereas all of the other lots in the community will be at 40 foot.

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So that 30 foot is really just to make the the paired homes possible.

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Along that trail, that leads into rca park.

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Another plus of osage place is the connectivity that eric mentioned.

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The roads will allow great access and uh we have been in touch with the.

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Parks department, we are planning to make a financial.

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Contribution to the portion of the trail to the north.

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um Of osage place that will connect osage place to switch yard park.

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Additionally, we plan to build all these houses.

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To zero ready energy standards, this means that they are outfitted.

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For solar and if families choose to put solar on in the future,.

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um They can gain that zero energy uh certification.

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um Our timeline right now is that we hope to.

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Well, I should have updated that um our we're hoping to be through the final.

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Plat app approval uh by this fall um so that we can start.

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uh Breaking ground on infrastructure next spring.

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And in the fall uh that would allow us to start our first house on the first.

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Phase of the neighborhood, which is lots one through.

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Thirty um and uh we'll wait to start on infrastructure.

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For phase two until the fall of 2023 and we will be building.

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Out those those first 30 houses uh in the meantime.

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So um what questions can I uh answer as well.

C

That's what we wanted to share all right. Thank.

A

You, mr ferreira, are there questions from committee.

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Members for either mr garlic or mr ferreira at this.

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Point could we have this screen unshared.

D

Please thank you.

A

Yes, councilmember rosenberger. I have a quick question from mr ferreira.

E

With the zero ready home just what exactly does it mean to have like solar.

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Be like ready for solar install is that just a roof.

E

I mean it's anything special and then is there anything inside the house, then.

E

That uh sets them up as well for that zero, ready, designation.

C

um So yeah, so uh they will be wired for solar, um which.

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Essentially means um the solar for all program uh locally. If a low-income.

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Family wanted to apply uh habitat houses would would meet that.

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Qualification and um uh basically be ready to go into that.

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Solar for all program um from the start, um so they're wired.

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um There's also design elements um that make it.

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um Zero energy ready um they're. Also, um oh, what's the word, I'm looking for.

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um There are some things that we are doing with the hvac.

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um System um that will allow it to be uh changes from what we do now.

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um That will allow us to um be zero energy ready. Did you want to.

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Chime in um okay.

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And part of the design of the neighborhood was that the.

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All of the houses be oriented in such a way um with a south-facing roof.

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That they would be perfect for accepting solar panels.

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So that's the predominant orientation yeah.

A

Thank you, um council, member flaherty, uh yeah and maybe follow up questions.

G

Related to uh the uh energy readiness and yeah, I.

G

Noticed the orientation of the houses, which is which is great, um will they still be connected to natural gas? Is that still what we used.

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For for heating, are they going to be uh all.

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Electric homes, uh I just wondering in the context of.

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Again, kind of a zero ready, they will still, they will still be.

C

Connected to gas, okay throughout the neighborhood.

A

Council member volun um yeah, I'm trying to find my notes here.

D

Why was the project? I'm not sure if this is for mr ferreira, for mr grulick, but.

D

Why uh wasn't the project able to meet the.

D

67 standard for being served by alleys, why was it only 57 percent? What about.

D

The design uh prevented that yeah, um it's a good.

B

Question so that is related to the uh the tree. Preservation.

B

That I talked about that they were trying to accomplish along the property boundaries. um So there's a row of trees along the.

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West side um that they would be saving with this.

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Petition um so incorporating the alley would impact.

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Those trees and make it much more difficult to save.

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Them or very likely not be able to save them.

B

So so that that tree preservation was pretty much the entire reason.

B

That an alley was not incorporated along the west side of the boundary to have.

B

All of those lots be alley loaded, so it has nothing to do with the path.

D

That extends chambers drive west.

D

Tell us more about that path. There that goes to the park.

B

um Yeah no, the path was was certainly not the.

B

Problem in achieving that alley along the back.

B

um It was the desire to save these trees that encroaches into this slot.

B

And then you know they're not right on the property line. Some of them are right.

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On it, some of them are a little bit east of that, so saving those trees, and you can see the shaded area. Those are the trees.

B

Sure it would be saved um so saving that was not possible with an alley along.

B

There so the decision was made to save the trees. You know that helps the.

B

Park helps this site as well, um but certainly you know we could they.

B

Could remove the trees and then incorporate the alley? It was just a.

B

Decision on their part to save the trees, but uh so you wouldn't.

D

Consider the I take it. That's a non-car path between.

D

The extending chambers drive west- that's not.

D

Considered an alley: no, that is yeah. That is not a car path.

B

And that is not an alley for uh cars to drive on for ali access.

D

Okay- and uh there are, of course, there's no room for garages anywhere.

D

In this project, I'm assuming not not along the the west side of that site.

B

um So those would all be parking, they would all be parking on the street.

B

um That's why all those parallel spaces are shown there.

B

um You know the other lots that are on the alley certainly could have garages.

B

Back there if they wanted them, oh, in other words, well I mean maybe it's.

D

The question for habitat does habitat intend to build anybody, a garage? uh No, we that's not part of our model.

C

It's mostly a matter of affordability and.

C

Keeping the mortgages within range that families can.

C

Afford the house, um however, all of those yeah all of those alley- access houses.

C

Will have parking, pads and um certainly habitat families over time.

C

um Make additions to their homes, and I would imagine.

C

Many of them would add garages over time. I guess I meant purely as a footprint.

D

Issue that I mean when you have uh 4 000 square foot, lots or smaller.

D

There's not a lot of room for a garage um each of those parking pads.

C

uh Our two cars um will fit two cars, so I.

C

I believe um there would be so they could put they could they could.

D

House it in a garage if they wanted to yep okay.

D

um The other that's fun. Thank you. uh The other question I have. I.

D

Can find it again here? um What's the difference between a paired home and a.

D

Duplex is there a difference not really no.

B

You know, is it just a term of art? Is it a separate lot of record issue.

G

Versus a single lot like these are separate lots. Are they not yeah.

B

You know so you know there are some duplexes are set up where they're on.

B

Their own lot, some are on one lot. Some are you know.

B

You just own the ground that the house is in so lots of different arrangements.

B

In this particular situation, uh there's a property line that runs.

B

Down that common wall, so one unit is on its own lot.

B

And the other unit is on its lot as well, but there is some kind of an agreement.

D

To make sure that the um the wall is protected and you know.

C

Yeah there's a there's, a homeowners association in trail view where we have.

C

Paired homes, and so if there's shared uh costs.

C

uh Maintenance costs for those homes, that's part of what the homeowner.

C

Association helps with and um so yeah there's.

D

But that's one association or there's a separate one for each pair of homes.

C

uh There's one association for the neighborhood and the paired homes. I.

C

Believe pay in a higher um amount.

C

To cover those additional potential maintenance costs.

C

Over time very good, thank you.

A

Okay, um I had a question uh about.

A

The I guess whether we need to state more clearly.

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Just for the legal record that these houses will remain.

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Will initially be and will remain, affordable.

A

Mr garlic, the the uh the letter that we received from.

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Smith, rehab, of course says you know this is a.

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Habitat project and it's uh geared to families earning between 25.

A

And 80 of your ami, but I don't know if that letter is.

A

Really an official part of the pud district ordinance because in.

A

The usually we look at the petitioner's statement as the district ordinance am I right.

A

So I'm wondering if we need to put something about affordability in there.

B

um So certainly the petitioner statement is part of.

B

What governs this? The district's standards are.

B

The nuts and bolts of uh you know lot sizes.

B

Setbacks that kind of thing, so anything that's in the petitioner statement.

B

Is still binding, um you know, I think your concern.

B

Is how many of these lots will remain? You know, as.

B

Nathan mentioned you know, habitat has the first rite of refusal.

B

But they could, they could obviously say. No, we don't want this. It feels like your.

B

Concern is more. We want to make sure that a certain percentages remain in that program for a time period, so that would.

B

Be either something the petitioner would need to commit to in writing, or a reasonable condition would need to be drafted to.

B

That effect, obviously something, hopefully, that the petitioner is amicable too yeah right, mr ferrera, what do you think.

C

um I'll just add that we've been in discussions for a few months with the.

C

Mayor's office and we were close to having a document.

C

um Signed and agreed on, we just we're.

C

Working out some of the finer details, I will say, habitat has committed to.

C

Keeping at least 50 percent of the homes uh affordable for on a long term basis, but it will be more than that. uh It's.

C

Just we don't have the documented and written out yet.

C

So it's in process um uh we're we're aware that we need to.

C

Have an agreement uh in place so we're working on it.

C

I don't know if, if windy, if you want to add anything else here,.

H

uh I think that most of you are probably aware that.

H

um We are in a in an agreement with the city.

H

Can you hear me, yes, could you just state your name for the record and.

A

Your title, if you have one sorry wendy goodlett, president and ceo of habitat,.

H

For humanity of monroe county uh welcome, thank you so.

H

We have an agreement, um a verbal agreement with the city.

H

For their participation in funding for part of the infrastructure costs of this.

H

Project and that's that's where this legal.

H

Documentation is coming into play is trying to work through the logistics of.

H

That the city has committed the lesser of 800.

H

000 or 45 percent of the infrastructure costs.

H

And habitat will cover the remaining 55 so.

H

um That's kind of the background of why we're why we're negotiating back and.

H

Forth on the finer points of this um is because there are city and federal.

H

Dollars that are coming through the city involved in the funding of it.

A

All right good, so I I it sounds like this. There will be an.

A

Agreement because, uh aside from this pud.

A

Revision there's another set of money that the.

A

City is uh willing to contribute to the infrastructure.

A

And that will need a legal commitment right. Okay, very good.

A

Are there other questions from committee members at this time.

A

Yes, council, member vola: uh what was the timeline.

D

On those commitments, in other words, they're not going to be done before.

D

Our second reading next week is that right.

H

We actually think they might be that's what the attorneys are. That's their goal.

H

um Is to have them ready prior to next wednesday, we're getting very, very close.

D

We would we'd be appreciate appreciative of that. I didn't expect it, but that.

D

Would be great? Okay, thank you. That's our goal. Yep.

A

um I have a question just about design.

A

The the images that we saw had um vertical.

A

Siding, and is that something that you're committed to do.

A

Because it doesn't really match what's in the rest of the neighborhood.

A

And I personally just don't like it, but it also seems kind of uh anomalous when.

A

You look at the the houses um nearby.

F

Sure I'd be happy to address that I'm barry clapper from spring park.

F

Spring point: architects: can you hear you're echoing for one.

F

Second, we're muting.

I

Okay, um I don't know if they'll be able to hear me, though.

D

You sound you sound fine.

F

F

Habitat was hoping to distinguish this, this uh development from some of their.

F

Previous developments and because the site is a little bit.

F

More rural, not as downtown as the trail view site.

F

We started to think about using a board and batten.

F

To change the character of uh of the neighborhood.

F

And in addition to that, introduce some standing seam.

F

uh On the roof forms again to just kind of give it a little bit.

F

More of a a less urban feel.

F

And um so that is the reason that you see.

F

uh The vertical board and batten siding represented um as you do.

F

That's that's sort of uh where that came from and trying to create a bit of a.

F

Unique character for this development.

A

Mr garlic, is there any um uh guidance from the udo or.

A

Otherwise, as far as the appearance of the homes.

B

No for for single family, there are not anti-monotony standards um as long as.

B

You pick materials that are on the approved finishing list um there are, there are not. um You know.

B

Requirements, you have difference of finishing materials.

B

Throughout the buildings, um obviously, with this being a pud, this.

B

If that's something that the council feels would be appropriate to address with a reasonable condition, um you know.

B

Something could be drafted to that effect.

F

May I add a point if you, if I may yes, miss clapper.

F

This is the first time that habitat will be using this material in this system.

F

And so of course, since uh the labor is volunteer, we're going to have to see.

F

How that installation goes and how smoothly that goes,.

F

So um we very might very well may have a mix of lap siding, which is what they.

F

Traditionally, use and board and batten uh our images at.

F

This point just just show um the gordon batten, but I.

F

Don't think that there's anything that precludes a mix of the materials.

A

Okay, I was just curious- I'm not here to judge architectural aesthetic council.

A

Member volun uh miss clapper thanks for the.

D

Presentation I to think, though, that board and batten is a phrase. I've never.

D

Heard before- and I would like you to give us a gentle introduction- please.

D

Explain what does that mean exactly sure, compare it to other sightings sure.

F

So lap siding which which people typically.

F

See around town is horizontal siding in its lap, one on.

F

The other um borden batten is a vertical board.

F

um Historically, is tongue and grooved um in into the next vertical board.

F

And then there would be a baton which would be about a.

F

A small one by two that would go over the seam, so it's essentially a.

F

Board and a baton, and it's that repetition.

F

um And you'll start to see it now um now that you sort of know what it is.

F

But it is around town and it's it's something um that you see.

F

Mixed in with a bungalow uh architecture type, so I mean this is definitely to.

D

Distinguish it, I'm looking at a a picture of it here on google um from.

D

Just a kind of a barn or a warehouse kind of.

D

Metal building because that's the the impression that I got from the.

D

Illustrations, it looked almost like metal buildings, yeah yeah, so no actually it's um we use it as a.

F

As a mix um with lap siding, often um in all kinds of architecture, it's.

F

Just another siding type and.

F

It's actually it's, this will be a vinyl version.

F

Of it, rather than the horizontal lap siding.

F

Trying this vinyl system- and we know it's going to have some complexities to.

F

It but um given the the more rural sense.

F

Of of this site, we thought it might be appropriate to try.

F

Something a little new and also just to to change the product up a little bit.

D

I'm gonna make two requests of the petitioners.

D

For next week, one of them is, could you please bring us some photos.

D

That illustrate the board and batten style that you have in mind, preferably.

D

In vinyl, but just photos that illustrate it.

D

uh If there's any around town or if you have.

D

You know just give us a little bit of a tour of the siding. I think it's gonna be.

D

A question for the council: the other is.

D

Every time I've seen this is typical for petitions, but.

D

uh Every time I've seen this project I've seen just.

D

The land that the houses we built on, I would really really like it in context.

D

If you can expand out the map about 50 feet in each direction,.

D

Just to see what the houses on the immediate edges already look like, so that it's in context, because I'm.

D

Trying to envision the difference between the east edge of.

D

The site, for example, and the existing houses, the south edge.

D

Of the site of the existing houses, um if there's some way that you can give.

D

Us that context, it would be much easier to envision the.

D

Overall project: do you think that's doable.

F

I think so sure that would be great I'd really like to see that next week, at the.

D

Full council, thank you.

A

Council, member flaherty: yes thanks, uh I have a follow-up from my earlier.

G

Question- and I don't think this is for this project necessarily um because we're you know fairly far.

G

Along but just thinking about, long-term energy use- and uh you know the nature of a change of electric grid and that sort.

G

Of thing um has has habitat considered all electric homes at all? Is that have.

G

You, you know, uh run numbers on that to see.

G

What costs would look like for folks and and thinking long term in, in particular, in the context of solar.

G

Compatibility what that might look like to do heat pumps and electric stoves? You know, as opposed to connecting the gas.

G

C

um Yes, actually, we are building a um kind of a pilot program right now.

C

That will be all electric a shipping container home um so.

C

It is something that we're we're looking into.

C

uh Our understanding at the moment is the price point.

C

For uh families of gas uh is still um the least expensive option.

C

In terms of their utilities and affordability is still top.

C

Top for us, of course, um but it's it's something: we're open to exploring more.

C

um And um I don't, I don't know that we've come to a final decision about it.

C

um Honestly for osage place, um but we've been.

C

um We've been moving toward including gas in the neighborhood, so.

C

A

All right are there any other questions. Yes, council member volun.

D

um I've looked into the question of gas versus electric.

D

uh Heating before and uh it seems that in.

D

Climbs as far north, it's electric is kind of prohibitive.

D

Is that a reason why you're hesitant to go all electric or.

D

Is it really purely a matter of ovens and stoves.

D

And hot water heaters, um I I'm not sure. I know that an accurate.

C

Answer to that I can. We can certainly research that.

C

But yeah I mean the environment certainly does have um an impact um when it comes to heating uh in the in the wintertime. um Like I.

C

Said we're doing a pilot now, um so I think we'll have a better sense.

C

Of that, um any any thoughts on no.

C

D

I mean it isn't ideal for me to see homes go all electric.

D

You know like I'd like to be do that myself. I just.

D

I mean I maybe uh mr flaherty can speak to heat pumps and the like. I just.

G

uh I think your impression councilmember bolin is for sort of a previous.

G

Generation of heat pumps, uh that technology and those products have come a really long way in the last five to ten years, and my understanding is now pretty much all climates in the u.s.

G

um Are you know, uh heat pump, compatible and fairly cost.

G

Effective and cost competitive. I guess um that may vary a little bit by location depending on just how cheap the gas is.

G

And that kind of thing, but I think it's doable as my understanding very good to.

D

Know and that's something I did not know- thank you, but, mr ferreira, if you had any.

D

Other comment, no, I don't have anything to add, um but.

C

It's something we will we'll research and look into a little more so I mean.

D

Just in general, or were you planning to give us a.

D

A comment next week, um I'm not expecting it. I'm not worried.

C

About it either, I didn't know what you meant, but I'm happy to try to be able to prepare a comment for next week. So we'll yeah.

D

It might help, but it's not not a big deal. I just yeah. I think it out loud.

D

All right, thank you. Yep.

A

All right any other questions from committee members before we go to the.

A

A

All right seeing none, um we will go to the public for comment if any members.

A

Of the public have a comment to make, they can use the raise hand, function.

A

In zoom or type into the chat that they would like to comment.

A

So this is for comments on the osage place.

A

Development by habitat for humanity.

A

Mr lucas, are you seeing any hands raised? I'm not no.

A

All right: well, let's bring it back to the committee, then.

A

Are there any comments from committee members.

A

Yes councilmember. um This seems like a pretty.

D

Straightforward project: it's a good idea. It's uh uh certainly.

D

uh Crucially needed, um you know other than the uh finer points.

D

That uh that I've asked for uh to clarify and.

D

To give us a full uh understanding of the project, um I.

D

Think it's a great uh uh project for on a number of dimensions.

D

Not the least of which is uh that it's good infield development.

D

It's sensitive to its context and, most importantly, it provides.

D

Affordable housing, which is in very short supply, so I'm uh looking forward to supporting it.

D

Without a second hearing just to make a recommendation tonight.

D

Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments from committee.

A

Members, council, member flaherty, yes, I share uh the views of.

G

Councilmember volin and you know I think this is a great opportunity for for bloomington and to add some affordable housing to our mix.

G

And help help with infill, um I think uh that'll, it's really nice, that it's.

G

Connected and very close to um uh the new switch yard park and.

G

Enemies like the b line and eventually the multi-use path to the north.

G

uh So this is yeah, I think, an exciting project. um I appreciate all the work.

G

That's gone into it uh from habitat and from city staff and.

G

And uh thank you for your time tonight and also would be ready to make a.

G

Recommendation this evening.

A

All right, councilmember, rosenbarker I'll, say same to those comments. um Just.

E

Add one that I really like how aligned with the comp plan this is so appreciate you all really focusing on.

E

Those goals, you know: 5-1 housing, affordability and even.

E

Transportation being connected to the beeline, I think that's really wonderful.

E

So thanks for that.

A

All right- and I must also agree with my colleagues that.

A

I think this is a wonderful proposal in uh several ways. I love the connectivity.

A

That we're you know changing street stubs uh into.

A

Streets that connect and uh extend that neighborhood and that.

A

We are, um you know, providing affordable.

A

Housing is wonderful. We definitely need more of that.

A

Especially for families- and um this is uh a great.

A

uh Use of space that is relatively close to.

A

To town and to various amenities- um and it's definitely bikeable and.

A

Walkable um and it's uh it's.

A

A dense development so even denser in some cases than.

A

The r4 that that we recently approved in the udo.

A

So I really like to see that it's an efficient use of land.

A

So um I am ready if somebody would like to make a motion.

A

To send this I'd like to recommend the do pass.

A

All right, so that's a second.

A

Okay, can you clarify that motion council member volume? It simply means.

D

That the committee recommends uh that the project be adopted.

D

uh Which would uh send it out of committee to back to the full council.

A

Very good all right! Well, as we usually do in committee, we'll just do a straw.

A

Poll and we'll start with council member flaherty, uh yes councilmember, rosenberger.

A

Yeah, council, member volun, yes- and I also say yes.

A

So, thank you so much to um mr garlic and uh this, mr ferreira, and.

A

um Miss goodlett uh for being here and miss clapper as well, and uh we will.

A

Send this back to the full council with a positive recommendation and.

D

Appear on the 12th is that right, yeah it'll be at our meeting regular session.

A

Next wednesday, so I think that wraps up our business.

A

And we do have a little break then, before the committee of the whole, at 6 30., mr lucas it'll, be the same. uh Zoom link, correct same zoom link.

J

That meeting starts at 6 30, so folks can either stick around or.

J

Hop off and hop back on so very good recommended adjourn.

A

Yes, we are adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you.

D

I