City of Bloomington, Indiana Historic Preservation Commission, 11 Jun 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, June 11, 2020

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meeting packet: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5912

A

It's a folk art, it looks like we have a quorum, so I'd like to call the.

A

Bloomington historic preservation, commission to order or do 2020 okay, doug.

B

Bruce sam to stall her susan, dire jeff golden.

B

Yes, deb hutton lease and wife's here, john saunders or krister mom.

B

Duncan campbell arnesto castaneda, derick richie.

B

Jenny seven: well, I only heard three yeses jeff me and john okay. So sam is.

B

Here: okay, okay, let's see susan sam, I see you, I see sam okay, I've got him.

B

You do have quorum now. Thank you. Sorry had a little trouble getting in. Oh.

A

No and you it just wouldn't open when we make a motion now, the commissioner is.

A

Doing that motion please your name first they're wearing when any dancing.

A

All this stuff you'll be able to find there's unit for us.

A

Perfect, all right, so we need approval of the minutes for last meal. This is jeff.

C

So moved we don't have any jeff, so we're good.

A

Thank you very. Let's move on to our ceo and.

A

Commission review, which is a continuation from our last leaving 325.

A

Self restraint petitioners josh kelly, josh- are you here? Yes, I am here. Thank.

D

You for having me okay, great, just wanted to make sure you were present all right.

E

So, as jon mentioned, this is a continuation from the may 28th meeting.

E

The hpc asked the petitioner to come back and readjust his proposal to.

E

Incorporate some of the comments and feedback from the may 28th meeting and.

E

Fisher has done so so I'm gonna go over the the changes just to remind everybody.

E

This is a fence position for a fence in the prospect hill, historic district.

E

So what we have here is what you see is in a yellow is going to be a wrought.

E

Iron fence four feet in height and then what you see in an orange will be.

E

Eight-Foot wood vertical board, picket fence, so that so we've changed from a.

E

Wooden picket fence four feet to a run: iron four beats fence and we've changed.

E

From a horizontal orientation, eight-foot privacy fence to a vertical orientation.

E

Eight-Foot privacy fence, so staff finds that the fence materials, which is runner.

E

And wood and the fence heights, which is four feet in the front and eight feet.

E

The back respectively, meet the guidelines in the district and the.

E

Standards now the guidelines do state that in general, a new fence should start no.

E

Farther forward than a wave of the house, we do see here that the front fence does.

E

Start forward of that midpoint here it does start behind the front building.

E

Wall, which, I think is an important distinction, so it's really a side yard.

E

Fence that they're creating here not a front yard fence and the the fence is.

E

Wrought iron, it's see-through, it's transparent, the hike install you know.

E

Make it fit in and not securing a story, character materials. So, for those reasons.

E

Staff would recommend approval of cua 20-20. I don't think there's anything to.

D

Add that covers most of it. I think, as we went back to take another approach at.

D

This we wanted to try to come and find a material that was going to be consistent.

D

With what we thought would fit better in the neighborhood and looking around at.

D

Some of the other places in the neighborhood, I think, was 516 west third.

D

Street, which is in the prospect hill district, had a wrought iron fence in the.

D

Front yard, which looked like very nice design. I think, though, for feedback from.

D

The last meeting we definitely didn't want to create the you know: front yard,.

D

Kind of fenced off component, the main thing here is to keep aesthetic value.

D

Historical character and provide an ability to kind of safely enjoy the yard.

D

Space so also we'll be trying to find kind of antique material. I looked online.

D

On the etsy website and was able to find a four foot high wrought iron, antique.

D

Style fence that I can order in sections, I've got a contractor that can install.

D

That fence so we'll make sure that it isn't a modern, looking wrought iron.

D

Fence which I don't think we would like, and certainly I know that probably.

D

Wouldn't be consistent with what the commission's looking for. So, I think with.

D

That style and having it set back behind the front porch there on that west side.

D

That allows porch access and then over on the prospect side that allows us to.

D

Be able to enter the house as you can see there, there's only two entrances and.

D

Both of those are on the south prospect sides, so that's why it would be very.

D

Difficult to have the fence set back farther from prospect, so I think we.

D

Tried to cover that, if there's anything else, any other questions happy to answer.

D

Them we're hoping to be able to get this approved and be able to. You know. Have it.

D

Be a good addition to the neighborhood.

A

No questions, no, I don't have anything. Sam did the neighborhood committee and.

F

Have anything to say they supported the actually? No, they didn't have any comment.

E

On this project at the may 28th meetings- oh and that's kind of complicated.

C

Because this is the original historic district and that committee is for.

C

Greater prospect hill, so there really is no committee that covers this. There is.

C

Not now I don't have any question jenny. Okay, I like the changes and I'm going to.

C

Support this I like them, I like the style of the wrought iron fence and I.

G

Will support this very much appreciate the.

F

Petitioner has changed up their fencing material. I think that there's a lot of.

F

Really ugly modern iron fencing out there and I think, the stuff that you.

F

Found is fantastic, I still think the would you go back to the site plan for a.

F

Second connor: what's the cross street, that's not a prospect. The other one is.

F

That rogers rogers rogers- I still have issues with it, because it's a corner lot.

F

You basically have two front yards and I get what you're trying to do, but I still.

F

Have issues, especially with the rodgers side, I mean I went and did a little walk.

F

Around the place, and now I can kind of see if you're running the the fence.

F

Along prospect, where you're running it as long as it now there's a little if.

F

You google map for a sec there connor along prospect, yeah yeah right there.

F

Perfect, so if you're pulling the fence out like right, where the edge of the.

F

Brick walk stops. Is it's a little difficult to tell where you're pulling.

F

It out from from the site plan, but so you've got this little wow. You did you.

F

Go back to where you were when you get a sec yeah. Mr. mr. de sóller, I could.

D

Comment on that, I know it's hard to see from the design, but I think if you can.

D

Look at that brick patio, the ideal would be just to take it. Take it one gate just.

D

Enough as a gate section across that brick patio to allow the entrance off.

D

The sidewalk and then not take it any further down. So there's the front face.

F

Of the fence run across, it comes out from that little corner of the bay right.

F

Before you hit that little blue container, it would be running parallel.

D

Along prospect and then you would come and make a 90-degree turn to.

D

The north, as soon as you cross, the brick you need to come excuse me. You need to.

D

Come just a little bit farther to be able to still include the door. So if you.

D

Can see where those three purple pots are? I guess it's actually a pretty good.

D

Little spot, if you, if just to the edge of that it looks like that, would be.

D

About far enough to come over to make sure that the steps there are enclosed.

D

And you don't have to have a lot of you know turns to make it to there. So just.

D

Be a simple 90 degree turn to tie it right into the house, probably about a.

D

Couple feet to the north of that door right, so I guess what I would suggest or.

F

What I'm trying to get at is behind the purple pots. There's a blue container and.

F

I use the corner of the house, it looks like there's your gated and steps down.

F

Right to the right of that! So if you yes out going north south at from the corner.

F

Right there, before you hit that blue thing out to the front of the little.

F

Brick, walk, and so the gate happens basically right where the walked ease.

F

Into the brick tease into the other, brick patio and then goes straight.

F

Across to the garage, is that what happens or is it something different.

F

Happening, I guess I'm in a little trouble following that, if you could.

D

Describe it one more time, I'm sorry, okay, put your cursor yeah so right there at.

F

That corner it starts at that corner yeah and it would come. It would come.

D

South from there to the wall, it comes all the way to that limestone wall. Yes,.

D

Sir, okay, okay and then it makes a 90-degree turn east and runs along that.

D

South wall to the corner by the garage. So if it comes all the way to that south.

F

Wall you're bridging those steps with the gate and the fence. It looks like yes,.

D

That that would be well it, I guess, is what I do is I wouldn't. I would have it.

D

Even with the grade line there, where the bricks are so, it would be at.

D

The top of those steps, so maybe a couple feet back, so you don't have to so by the.

D

Time you get to the top of the step, the gate is there, so it's not hovering over.

D

That second step down, so it's even with where the bricks are not the limestone.

D

Step if that makes sense, I understand. Thank you so my comments here are.

F

Because you have a corner a lot, you basically got two front yards and the.

F

Guidelines as I read them, frown on front yard fences, which is why they have that.

F

Midpoint issue, so I mean my mind's leaning would be to have it half way.

F

Down the back, so you didn't even basically see that fence and then you.

F

Said so that you don't you know the the wrought iron piece would go run.

F

North-South parallel to we look at we're on rogers now right, yeah, yeah, so we're.

F

We're on rogers right now so it'd be back. You know back sort of midpoint on.

F

The back yard, so you wouldn't even see it so you wouldn't have any wrought iron.

F

At the back, it would just basically be a piece of wrought iron fence that ran.

F

North south, along the midpoint of the back facade to eight foot, high fence and.

F

Then that goes in corners back to the garage and then I my my other issue is.

F

It feels like the fence is coming too far forward on prospect, so I would push.

F

It back I mean I understand why they're trying to do what they're trying to do.

F

They want to get access to their yard fenced in from both sides, but I really.

F

Think that having that wrought iron fence forward, especially on the.

F

For the roger streetside is problematic here you know I'm willing to suck it up.

F

A bit, but I put it back at the face of the where the brick t's into the brick.

F

So about three four feet out from the face of the limestone steps at the porch.

F

Right in there yep right in there so so have where that brick is, it would come.

D

Off of the house by the blue thing maybe make a turn even with where the brick.

D

Patio is and then go to the garage and you'd have a about. What is that four or.

D

Five feet would be my guess of buffer between the wall in the fence yeah. I.

D

Mean, that's, that's, that's that's a great compromise and I can put some vegetation.

D

In there between that or just leave it as grass kind of enough for a mower.

D

Length, if you think about it as that, okay, I'm happy to make that change. Thank.

D

You thank you. I got no issues. I really appreciate all the changes that you've.

H

Made even starting with this so yeah I'll support this I'm going to.

C

Move that we approved coa 2020 as it stands, this is jeff. Thank you.

G

Second, it's lee: okay! Okay! Thank you. Sam to solar, know, susan dyer, yes, jeff.

B

Golden yes leaf and wife, yes, john saunders, yes, motion carries 5-1, yeah, I'd.

D

Like to thank you to the commission, really look forward to working with you.

D

Guys over the years on this property and keeping it up and really gonna enjoy the.

D

Place so thank you so much for the time and I appreciate the approval and all.

D

The help connor especial thank you, josh, nice defense, by the way.

F

Thanks thanks, thank you. Josh yes, place in minneapolis called dock keys. They.

A

Specialize in architectural salvage and they may have certainly iron pieces. You.

A

May want it is that dock keys, like dr. keys and louisville architectural.

F

Salvage might be worth looking at yeah, louisville, architectural salvage, okay,.

D

Great, thank you so much the lange done with the leg. 20-13 126 he's ready to.

A

Drop to tell damon with us okay, so this is a contributing structure. It was.

E

Actually, added as a contributing building in the eri 2018 survey update.

E

It was not on the 2015 shard, so it was added in the most recent survey update.

E

The request is for a full demolition. This isn't a sunny slopes, neighborhood.

E

So it's kind of off of south walnut ridge in east ridge view I drove around.

E

The neighborhood the other day and I noticed a very similar kind of.

E

Architectural pattern going on with maybe one or two different variations of.

E

The same basic style, and so my first thought was maybe knowing that the.

E

Neighborhood was developed in the 1950s. Perhaps you know these are the the.

E

Prefab houses, you know, maybe gonna sing magic homes or you know some of the.

E

Other ones that were doing at national homes and so forth, so I actually.

E

Contacted an expert, randy ship and asked him to look at the neighborhood and he.

E

Told me that he didn't believe these were prefab homes, some of the smaller.

E

Units might be demountables what which are essentially like pre.

E

Constructing the factory and then just offloaded on the truck on site.

E

Prefinished or they he said they just could be. You know regular working man's.

E

Economy, size little, you know, ranch houses, so he didn't think they were.

E

Prefab but you know I would ask you- know the the commission maybe to spend some.

E

Time, energy looking in this neighborhood, it's kind of unique these houses. Are you.

E

Know, certainly from a certain period of time and a recognizable as such,.

E

Well, I don't think that we have grounds to recommend designation at this stage. I.

E

Do think this neighborhood could be an area of future study, so these are some.

E

Pictures given to me by the petitioner carol looks like they. I think they had a.

E

Flood or something in earth push through the the foundation walls, and you can see.

E

How it's kind of buckling inwards there from the pressure from the earth so.

E

Certainly, structurally in very poor shape, so staff would recommend release.

E

Of demolition delay, nineteen sorry 2013.

H

These actually are prefab homes. My parents bought this house and they moved.

H

In october 1956 they were the second people to move into this neighborhood. I.

H

Can probably tell you, everybody, that's lived in these houses, so this is this.

H

Has been my home and the reason I'm asking for the permit is because, when we.

H

Had the flood in february, it took out the foundation, there's not age. Well,.

H

That's really structurally safe at this time and I'm going to build a house back.

H

There- and it will probably be where I retire. I have ties to this neighborhood.

H

I, like I said this is house my parents were their original owners of this house.

H

So carol, do you know who bought the house romans freethought.

H

You know we found those papers and I didn't even think to look at it. I know.

H

It is not a national home, but it is a prefab home all the houses in the.

H

Neighborhood are the same: there is one that's a tri-level, and one or two that.

H

Have been added on to but they're either set long ways, lengthwise or long ways on.

H

The neighborhood on the lots that they are the same, I do not have any questions.

F

As the petitioner explorador, would you be at all interested in exploring.

F

Jacking, the house up and replacing the foundation with something. That's you.

F

Know I've got a french drain or something or is it prohibitively.

F

Expensive and not worth it, I have I've talked to him just to do one and a half.

H

Walls or a quarter wall was going to be over $30,000 just to do that, so it was.

H

For this neighborhood and the value of the houses and there it is prohibitive.

H

Cost prohibitive, thank you. No, I don't have any questions. I was muted. Okay. I.

I

Was I was muted, my only question is really for conor. You know in your.

I

Statement in the agenda, you said something about unless some historic.

I

Significance about the neighborhood surfaces has because is there anything.

I

Like that, that has surfaced, or any reason to think that this is a one-off.

I

One-Of-A-Kind subdivision or yeah, so I was trying to see if perhaps.

E

Neighborhood itself- and I thought that it might be- you know, kind of a prefab.

E

Neighborhood, maybe homes built or by you know one.

E

One company I talked to a guy, he didn't seem to think that these words be fabs.

E

Although carroll, who said her parents bought the home originally so that it is.

E

Prehab prefab, so I need to look into it a little more and you know it has merit.

E

Beyond just a prefab home, that would be the only grounds for designating this.

E

Neighborhood, you know there is a very similar architectural theme and going on.

E

Most of the homes are relatively unaltered, and you could really tell that.

E

They were of the same period and type, so I think that the neighborhood is really.

E

Interesting little enclave of these small affordable. You know mid-century.

E

Houses- and I think that you know in the future- we should potentially explore and.

E

Talk to homeowners, I already spoke with angela, our neighborhoods program manager.

E

And she said that the neighborhood doesn't have a neighborhood association, that's active, so you know that would be the first person that I was going to.

E

Reach out to about potential designation but seem to be a dead end there at the.

E

Moment, but to answer your question I would say yes, okay, thank you.

A

I'm gonna support the release. I don't think this merits individual designation.

C

Lee I agree with jeff sam agree today.

A

126 east ridge, which major re historic preservation commission, declares that it.

A

Got notice of proposed demolition and, after today's discussion sees no need to.

A

Review the plans any further and where's the rest of the demolitions, a waiting.

A

Period, the hbc may later recommend the.

A

Designation second, I was jeff all right. Thank you, sam to thaller.

B

Yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden yes leaf and wife. Yes, john saunders. Yes,.

G

Motion carries 5-0. Thank you. Thank you very much. So.

E

Harper dunbar, who manages the rose hill cemetery, contacted me a week and a half.

E

Ago and told me that they had plans to remove this fountain and then kind of.

E

Just create a little plaza area here so, as you can see, there is no fountain here.

E

Anymore, the fountain that was built, I believe in the early 1900's, has been.

E

Moved to the 3rd street park, so all we're left with here is a base pedestal.

E

Of the fountain and you can see the water because of the convex shape just.

E

Collects here and breeds mosquitoes and there's a lot of significant damage.

E

Along the base of it, these are photographs that I actually took before.

E

Barbara contacted me, and I thought to myself wow this really needs some.

E

Attention, because you can see here, you know the limestone is falling off so.

E

Barb said that the city is planning on demolishing the remnants what you're.

E

Seeing here today and then creating kind of a plaza area where they can, you know.

E

Gather and have events and such so the historic preservation commission doesn't.

E

Technically have purview over rose hill cemetery and this particular feature, but.

E

Barbara wanted me to bring it up with the commission to let you guys know that.

E

This was opening and if you guys had any comments or feedback about it, okay, jeremy- I have a question, is so the rural cemetery is.

I

Not a historic district. No, so I don't really have any questions. I guess my.

C

Comment is I wish they were never moved at fountain. It was a big loss there. So.

C

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I used to walk that cemetery all the time.

C

And the courtyard area is already super cool, so I'm conflicted.

G

Maybe that space where the fountain was could be some kind of special slot. You.

G

Know some kind of public art some kind of garden. Some kind of you know.

G

Something reverent and also save the limestone. You know, maybe the limestone.

G

Could be incorporated in whatever takes the place of this? It is a shame, though,.

G

But glad we're having an opportunity to look at it and think about it. I guess.

I

The obvious thing is to what a fountain in there pick something and put some.

I

Kind of water fountain, in I mean it wouldn't have to be a sculpture, could.

I

Just be a motor one jet hmm I mean it still. It's still a gathering place. It.

I

Still, it seems like it still would qualify as a gathering place.

I

Take care literally, we take care of the mosquito problem. It's definitely a mr.

I

Has historic, meaning you know it? It's probably become a maintenance item that.

I

Nobody wants to pay for, but doesn't look. I really have a couple of shots of it.

I

But it doesn't look irreparable, it looks like it could be fixed.

G

Yeah and if they don't have a lack of gold, they could run solar out there and.

F

Just power the pump that way. Well, there was a found there before. So I'm.

C

Imagining there's infrastructure yeah well duncan mentioned he's right.

E

You know as a gathering space and I think the idea that parties thinking.

E

About is with the removal this fountain, it can function as a gathering space.

E

Even more so because there would be more more room there to gather more of an.

E

Open area, I guess I agree with duncan that making this a fountain again would.

C

Be really cool, yeah and people like to gather worse where the action is. I mean.

G

You think about showalter fountain. Would people really gather there if it was.

G

Just a flat stone, maybe, but I think, it'd be cool just in terms of the history of.

G

The cemetery and what was I mean if it's doable and then it's affordable? I think.

G

It should be done, be a focal point that they keep the fountain and restored. So.

A

Its function again to keep the base and yeah right duncan, it doesn't have to be.

C

Anything special just moving water. Okay, all right, take those recommendations and.

E

That information of barbie thank you, connor johnson, creamery, there's a.

A

Extensive report on the condition of the chimney in our back yeah- I just want to.

E

Bring it up to the commission, I spoke with the property owners. The zoom call.

E

About three weeks ago- and you know they had this structure report done- if you.

E

Read the conclusion, and there were fair actions, there are eight items there and.

E

The one that I thought was really concerning was, I don't know.

E

One, which is demolishing the uppermost 15 feet of a chimney, so I think that's.

E

That's what they're seriously considering at this date, I want to lock.

E

The cup of this chimney off, they introduced the idea of rebuilding that.

E

With break, or with some other, you know material. However, they were asking me.

E

What kind of regulations are approvals and permits that they need to do this?.

E

And essentially from historic preservation: commission, it would be a.

E

Demolition delay, review of sorts because it's not in a local historic district.

E

Wouldn't be a certificate of appropriateness.

E

But since the johnson creamery is on the historic site, constructors list.

E

Demolishing part of that chimney would need a demolition delay review, so I've.

E

Talked to the owner that told him that was the case. I told him I would show you.

E

Guys a report- and I would help them through that process when they decided.

E

When they made a decision on the fate of the chimney, so I just wanted you to have.

E

The report with you to read and come to your own conclusions about it and be.

E

Prepared to speak on it when it comes up in the future, is this property not.

C

Individually designated it's in the west side, historic district, the west side.

E

National register district yeah yeah national register district give us any.

C

Control, I was also single. It's also singly.

I

Listed in the national register, so it would mandate a 106 review and we would.

I

Be consulting parties to that it wouldn't mandate a 106 review unless the.

E

Owners are using federal money right, you don't know if they are daughter that you.

I

Know that they're, not they told me they weren't.

A

I wouldn't be opposed well yeah. If this came up as demo us in july. I would.

C

Definitely recommend for individual designation locally moving forward. The.

F

Other piece of the report that I want to call attention to is the they said that.

F

The all of the aerials up there were causing additional wind drag so yeah.

F

That ain't helping matters- I guess, is what I'm saying and we should recommend.

F

That they be taken down yeah, they also didn't, say anything about whether they.

I

Were gonna put them back up after they took that 15 feet off exactly yes, I can.

I

Give you a little history on this, because I redeveloped that building we.

I

Put we put, we had an inspection done on the on the smokestack. This is actually.

I

The second smokestack there was a previous one that was torn down this one.

I

Was built when the boiler capacity was increased as the factory grew, and it was.

I

Taller than it is now it's there's several several feet have.

I

Been taken off, I don't remember exactly how much, but quite a bit we didn't take.

I

It off it had already been done at the time it didn't have a cap on it and we.

I

Hired a steeple jack company out of chicago and they came down and put five.

I

Or six bands on it and pointed the entire exterior and a significant amount.

I

Of the interior that was in about 96 95, maybe and then so I read that report.

I

With interest, because it it has continued to deteriorate, and I think.

I

That the report is pretty accurate in terms of its analysis and what the.

I

Issues are they've, been the issues all along when the when the creamery.

I

Property got sold to pinnacle, I they still own it or not, but they did.

I

They did another rehab on it, but and put on a lot of those additional bands and.

I

Then some somewhat later, a few more bands were put on and it was under.

I

Pinnacles ownership that they petitioned to put a the antenna and so on on there.

I

And that did require a 106 review because of the federal agencies involved.

I

In approval of cell towers, so it is technically a cell tower and I don't.

I

Know whether that what the federal jurisdiction there is still federal.

I

Jurisdiction, because those cell towers are all licensed which, which requires.

I

106, so as long as it's under that licensure, I think it requires 106. Now.

I

That said, these things dude, I witness the first one, and they do they really.

I

Take a lot of beating in the terms of the weather, and I actually thought it.

I

Was pretty noble of them to be trying to save it? Considering you know, I know the.

I

Report says this: many feet is good and this many feet is good, but it also and.

I

There are a lot of places where it's there's some significant spalling, which.

I

Will require you know pretty costly repair, one of the suggestions. What would.

I

That removal of the top 15 feet the way I read this was that they reason they.

I

Wanted to do that was because that's where the the bowing is taking place.

I

That's where the stresses are being expressed, and that creates a physical.

I

Danger, to be honest, I mean if that thing fell. You know, spalling fate rick face is.

I

One thing but 15 feet of that tower or something else and there there is a.

I

Remedy, that's common, which is to put on a steel, a steel column, you'll see them.

I

All over the country they take the tops off and put those on he actually, the.

I

Report writer actually suggested that as one of the remedies or rebuilding it in.

I

A somewhat different material, which I think is also.

I

I'd hate to lose the height of it, but I think those are both. You know pretty.

I

Reasonable remedies I spent a lot of time investigating these kinds of.

I

Structures for the developer- and I spent a lot of time with the guys who were.

I

Fixing it, I think we spent about 35 or 40 thousand dollars on it at that time.

I

And it's never been in excellent condition and they finally put a cap on.

I

It to try to keep the moisture out of it, which apparently has worked, but it's.

I

Always gonna need regular maintenance, whoever owns it now, it's a landmark of.

I

Course, and so nobody wants to lose it, I fought the cell tower, but I lost so you.

I

Know I don't I don't know, but I I thought the report was just I'm just as.

I

A preservation is just saying I thought the report was pretty accurate and I'm.

I

Pretty familiar with the condition of it was a little bit alarmed, but it's.

I

Interior ated, as much as it has since we did our repairs, but I still think it's.

I

Very likely that it would require 106 with you, because of the federal.

I

Licensing review, that's something that's completed by a different party and I.

I

Know our preservation commission would be consulting party absolutely so we.

I

Would we would we would be able to write an opinion about how what we wanted to.

I

See happen that would be more about look, not binding, but it would have more.

I

Influence under 106. So if we suggest it as sam said, for instance, that that the.

I

Cell tower funk should be removed because it's damaging the structure for.

I

Potentially damaging the structure or has already damaged the structure that.

I

Seems like that would have some clout you know. So I mean 106 is a is a moving.

I

Target we all know that, it's not necessarily, you know, you can say all you.

I

Want- and they won't do anything sometimes, but it's still, we do have.

I

Standing as that's my point as opposed not having standing over it just being on the national register right. But if.

E

You mean, if you're really interested in saving it, and then it needs to be.

E

Designated the local level, because that's really, where the, where the teeth.

E

Are for any kind of important preservation? Absolutely, but I'm kind of.

A

Getting on the back end, trying to save all the problem, every designated it.

A

Becomes a stirring and trying to save all into me can be difficult, endeavor.

A

For somebody at that point, yeah, maybe that you know that's true of all.

I

Historic structures, we may all age and they all require maintenance and- and you.

I

Know this is you know I I wouldn't want to own it I'll. Tell you that, but you.

I

Know they're the last two owners anyway, have been pretty good stewards of it and.

I

These people have done a pretty reasonable job, getting a. I think, an.

I

Authoritative report sounds like they want to save it, and you know maybe it.

I

Should have been better maintained, maybe it would have been better maintained had.

I

It been a local historic site, you know, but that's the only way to give us any.

I

Jurisdiction, you know the owner may may not want to do it, but if we want to.

I

Protection, a role in protecting it. That's our only our only real way to do.

I

It it's no different from maintaining the showers building or any other.

I

Historic site and I want to add the owners you know they read the report.

E

And they're well aware that that lien is caused by the wind shear on that.

E

Telecommunications equipment, so you know they know that removing that equipment.

E

And doing some repairs, there can essentially save that from further.

E

Deterioration and damage, and so I think that will be part of the conversation it.

E

Is what to do with that know? Second, what duncan's talking about, I think.

F

You know the other piece of this is this is a less useful piece of property. The.

F

Only real use for it is to put these antennas on there, so if they have to.

F

Maintain it and they're not getting anything back from it. They're gonna be.

F

In some ways less inclined to do anything about it, so I'm happy that.

F

They've done everything they've done so far. No, I think it's a lovely piece of.

F

Bloomington skyline so great if they could save it, but if it comes down to it.

F

And it starts deteriorating to such a point that it becomes a public hazard.

F

Yeah, we sorry we protected it. You know because we were doing a federal tax.

I

Credit on the rehabilitation and we had to save it. I wasn't even it wasn't a.

J

Choice and we wanted to, but it was, you know the park service wasn't gonna. Let.

I

Us tear it down it's too, too significant a part of the.

I

Structure would their position have changed at this point? Probably not. I.

I

Mean once it becomes a public safety issue, they they kind of back away.

I

Because local authorities handle those issues. But if you went to do another tax.

I

Credit job on this building, they would want it to be saved.

I

You know they because they don't they don't get into the money argument.

I

They're giving you money, you know: they're saving, you taxes. So if you were.

I

Devout I mean the developer, the original developer on this project. I can't.

I

Remember exactly, but it was probably close to $600,000 federal tax credit.

I

That's a piece, so it was worth thirty five thousand to fix the stack. The.

I

Current owner may not have an incentive like that. Why again, I agree with what.

C

Both duncan and sam say, you know, the safety issue is definitely concerned, but.

C

The loss of this landmark, I think, would be significant. So if there.

C

Is some way to, I think the haifa is important and if it has to be rebuilt in.

C

A different way duncan suggested um a couple things, and that may be a.

C

Compromise, I I think this building is so important. That structure is so important.

G

The heights important and I think it should be locally designated to give it.

G

As much protection as we possibly can, I think we get a lot of we'd have support.

G

For that everybody loves this building.

H

Yeah I'd agree with that too: okay, annex project and grant- and I think we have.

A

Talked to us about the project sure you have three share craig. If you need to.

E

Okay hope everybody can see so I'm craig pride, I'm the architect for.

K

The project with kate, egy group, out of chicago and we're the architect for a.

K

Number of projects for annex around the country, joy skidmore, may be on the call.

K

But I know she has to leave for another meeting and then greg is also going to.

K

Be speaking a little bit tonight, possibly so, we've got a short slide.

K

Presentation on the proposed project that we have designed at third and grant.

K

Street in bloomington, so I'll walk you through it here.

K

First of all, can everybody see the screen, I'm hoping connor you're good on.

K

That end okay, so the proposed site is again at the corner of third and grant.

K

And the sites are both on the east and west side of grant street adjacent to.

K

Third, the project is coming to will be coming to the planning commission and is.

K

Being developed as a workforce, housing development, we are working under the.

K

Confines and regulations of the new you do that was recently passed and a little.

K

Bit about the developer, if you're not aware about them, the annex group is out.

K

Of indianapolis they're a developer of multi-family housing. They are also a.

K

General contractor and self perform in that in that role and then they own and.

K

Operate their facilities so they're kind of a long-term builder, not a merchant.

K

Builder, that would bill, sell and move on. They build own and operate and maintain.

K

Their facilities annex has about 975 million in commercial project.

K

Development experience they develop in affordable housing, workforce housing as.

K

Well, as multi-use or multi-purpose multifamily projects, they were also the.

K

Developer of union at crescent, which I believe is another affordable.

K

Development in bloomington recently, I'm actually gonna jump in here. This is the.

K

Historic, disparate site for sure, but I do want to just jump back in a little.

L

Bit about us, I think when we came for the first time, I'm not sure if any of.

L

You folks were we're on the board about three years ago on a previous project.

L

Brought it through, but we were at that time in a student living and we focused.

L

Mainly on student housing projects, and we have since rebranded to the annex.

L

Group, so it with that rebranding reasoning, for that is because our focus.

L

Has shifted to low-income housing, tax credit projects and workforce housing so.

L

It sort of worked out well to develop a workforce housing project on this site.

L

Where originally we had planned for first student housing, I don't know if.

L

You want to take back if you want, sir. We've got on the screen right now. The.

K

The two parcels highlighted in the aerial view and showing our proximity to.

K

The historic district, the the previous project, as we originally brought it.

K

Through was planning on renovating the contributory structure on the very north.

K

End of property owned by annex that is not included in the current proposal and.

K

The sites that we are bringing forward for development are what's highlighted.

K

In the red boxes, so we're adjacent to the red right. Sorry, the restaurant road.

K

District, we're in the new md uv zoning district as as outlined in the new you.

K

Do- and we also are responding to the downtown core overlay development.

K

Requirements so again a little bit of history. I think it was back in 2017. We.

K

Came forward and approached both the plan commission and the historic.

K

Preservation, commission, with a development on both sides of the street,.

K

That was a four-story building that was primarily student housing at that time.

K

We were asking for a number of deviations or variations in that process.

K

From the zoning code at the time for height variations and density, we are not.

K

Doing that at present, however, we took the feedback that was given to us as the.

K

Outcome of both meetings with historic preservation, commission.

K

And the plan commission and then two years later have tried to respond.

K

Appropriately in in meeting our objective in the new development, um so.

K

The proposed project includes both affordable housing and workforce housing.

K

Units it qualifies for the tier two incentives that are outlined in the you.

K

Do we intend to meet all of the you? Do requirements, including building height.

K

Requirements with the incentives we are not proposing or requesting any waivers.

K

As part of the approval process, we are not including the historic home or the.

K

Historic site in the development area in this go-around and all the the primary.

K

Materials for this project are brick veneer and cementitious, siding or panel.

K

And primarily, brick on the lower three levels, a little bit overview between the.

K

Two development parcels: we have a total of 102 units, 53 units proposed on the.

K

East site forty nine units proposed on the west, there will be a total of about.

K

7200 square feet of retail proposed between the two project or two buildings.

K

We are providing 45 on-site parking spaces and a total of about 85 or 86.

K

Thousand square feet between the two buildings being developed over what is.

K

0.7 acres, our proposed mix through the project is a combination of studio.

K

One-Bedroom and two-bedroom units- and I believe this is talking about the rent.

K

Levels so we have of studios we're proposing four units at the eighty.

K

Percent ami level and four units at the 120 level, one bedrooms we have three.

K

Units in each of those categories- and we provide two one two-bedroom.

K

In each of those categories, out of the total 102 units, in talking about the.

K

Site plan again, the site is both east and west of grant street.

K

So the eastern port, or the eastern building, really takes up the entire area.

K

Bound by 3rd street on the south grant on the west an unimproved alley on the.

K

North and an improved alley on the east, both buildings have enclosed parking.

K

That are is on the ground-floor, the east building. We are using the current curb.

K

Cut off the north alley to access our garage, which will be essentially built.

K

Into the hill, we have severe sloping sites on both parcels of property. The.

K

Site grade elevation is approximately about a nine-foot drop on both sites.

K

From the southeast corner to the northwest corner, so it's almost an.

K

Entire story on the east: building: it's about 2/3, of a story on the on the.

K

Western block, the pink is highlighting our space that is proposed as retail use.

K

In the you do at least 50% of the ground floor area. That is not parking needs to.

K

Be dedicated to commercial use in both cases we far exceed that regulation and.

K

Are probably closer to 60 to 80% of the non parking space of the building? Is.

K

Devoted to retail, the west building is really an it's an l-shaped configured.

K

Site so we look at it. Both both parcels have two street frontages. The east.

K

Building has a fall kind of full development property frontage to grant.

K

Street as well as third street, the third street elevation rises quite a bit so.

K

The ability to interact or access that ground floor level beyond mid block is.

K

Challenging because almost at the second-floor level, when.

K

You get to the alley at the southeast corner, the west building again is retail.

K

On the corner of 3rd and grant the amount of parcel that faces grant street.

K

Is only about 40% of the what I would say that that mid block length, so we.

K

Have a very small segment of the building that fronts grant street on the.

K

Western block and then a full frontage on 3rd street, so you can see again the.

K

Retail is on the corner. Both buildings have a residential access point. The east.

K

Building is set back off of grant street on the north side of the retail. The.

K

Residential entrance on the west building is mid block on 3rd street and.

K

That's so that we can devote as much contiguous retail space as possible and.

K

To attract a better retail tenants again, we provide parking for the west building.

K

That is also accessible off of the alley to the north. The alley to the north is a.

K

One-Way drive going westbound, so you will enter the project going west down.

K

The alley in and out of the garage and then continue west back out to downtown.

K

The design, inspiration for the project we we looked at two sets of data. You.

K

Might say we asked for some recently approved projects in bloomington, which.

K

Are represented on the left in the dark gray area, and then we also kind of took.

K

A tour of buildings that were comparable in scale and use within the downtown.

K

Bloomington area and tried to use those as the inspiration of how we would say.

K

Clad our building with materials and respond to the really the I won't say.

K

The challenges but the prescriptive method of how we're to design the.

K

Building under the new you do requirements, so we have a series of.

K

Elevations in perspective, to show you this is the the third street elevation.

K

Grant street being in the middle, both buildings are proposed at five stories.

K

The underlying zoning allows for three storeys in the tier two incentive.

K

Because the project is providing affordable and workforce, housing allows.

K

My right, a two-story bonus of up to 24 feet and an overall height of 64 feet on.

K

Both sites, the again the base of the building as we are treating at the lower.

K

3 floors, the primary building material is brick veneer, it is highlighted and.

K

Accentuated with some movements and articulation in the building that will.

K

Be fiber cement and the base of the building at grade. It is predominantly a.

K

Storefront glazing: we have followed the you, do requirements for module, ization.

K

I'm sorry modular articulation around the facades, so that is a series of.

K

In-And-Out movements from the exterior wall, as well as a primary setback that.

K

Occurs above the third floor or above 40, feet to setback the upper levels, 15 feet.

K

From the storey below, and so that's why you see the top two floors in this view,.

K

Are setback that applies to both the elevations that front third street as.

K

Well, as the segments of the building that front grant street.

K

We have a couple of kind of street level perspectives that coordinate the.

K

Proposed landscape and streetscape for the design. Again, we've we've tried to.

K

Articulate and really play up the interaction of 3rd and grant as we're.

K

Developing both sides of the street, we want both both buildings to kind of talk.

K

To one another, so there is a treatment of the corner of both of the buildings.

K

To try and present a gateway or a sense of entry to the third and.

K

Grant area that leads you to restaurant row: this is the west building. We've.

K

Modelled the existing two-story structure, that is on the historic parcel.

K

Two at the northeast corner of the western block of development. There are.

K

Two parcels of land, one is the one with the two-story contributing structure and.

K

Then there is a vacant parcel that currently is a just a gravel surface lot.

K

Again, those parcels are not in the development area, but we're providing the.

K

View to just give you some perspective of how the rest of the building is.

K

Responding to this particular area, this would be a view looking east down. Third.

K

Street again you can. You can tell the kind of significant impact that the the.

K

New you do requirements for modulation, articulation and step backs is, is having.

K

On the building, which not only it does add interest again, we're also trying to.

K

Make the the top or the upper levels of the floor a little bit lighter in terms.

K

Of materiality and weightiness again, the lower three four three floors are.

K

Emphasizing a predominance of brick veneer, along with the use of double hung.

K

Windows as the primary window and for light and ventilation of the units and.

K

Then further activating the the resident experience to the local neighborhood.

K

With balconies in sliding glass doors, so that's that's a general overview of the.

K

Project and would love to take any feedback or questions that you might.

K

Have on the development- and I can certainly go back to any.

K

Particular slide as you wish. Thank you for the opportunity not yet.

C

I'm gonna, listen it to what happens sam. Does your group own the vacant lot.

F

Between the historic property and a little l building on the west side or is.

F

That owned by some other entity, let me go back here: okay,.

K

So which, which, which area are you talking about the west lot about mid.

F

Block on the east side that guy this one right here, yes, sir.

K

Yes, I do believe they owned these two parcels as well: okay and but they're.

F

They're deciding not to is there a rationale for not including.

F

That parcel in the development- at this point- I you know they had talked.

K

Previously about trying to convert this into a different use, but had not come to.

K

Any decision, but no we're- I don't- have any insight as to why not we've just.

K

Been you know, we've been given the land that we've we've got to work with, and so.

K

That's what we're working with right here, yeah, I'm an architect, so I feel.

F

Your pain, thank you now I don't have any questions right now,.

I

Okay, sorry, I was muted again. I understand that some of it is affordable.

I

Housing and workforce development, but what the.

I

Rest is: is market rate? Yes, yes, I believe that's correct.

K

And do you have a can, you estimate the percentage of market rate, it was 85 50.

K

About 15 mark 15 percent, affordable 85% market rate, I believe, okay, thank you.

C

Well, one of my comments was around the city's requirement for modulation. I.

C

Really don't like that requirement, I.

C

Mean this looks like every other building, that's being built in.

C

Bloomington they're following the rules you know and they're, respecting the.

C

Historic district, so I guess that's where I'm at I don't see a problem with.

C

G

I agree with jeff. I was on the commission a month. You know other people.

F

Were as well, but this is much more palatable than the last proposal on the.

F

Same site, I appreciate the setbacks over three stories.

F

I appreciate the ground-floor retail. I appreciate the street access and also.

F

Echo that you know sometimes you have rules to follow that aren't necessarily.

F

Best from a design standpoint, so I get that I am concerned about what happens.

F

On that, which is why I asked about it, it feels.

F

Like it's sort of putting off the problem to a later day, because at some.

F

Point you're gonna have to address transitioning between a very large-scale.

F

Project which this is on a very small scale of restaurant row and that.

F

Historic property at the grant street on the corner of grant street on the.

F

Western sun, the western block yeah, I mean seeing it for the first time. It's a.

I

Little it's a little bit difficult to run much of a critique, but I agree with.

I

Some of the stuff that that sam said, I I am also you know I get that I get the.

I

Udl requirements, I don't always agree with them. I think that they're just.

I

Gonna produce another kind of architecture that all looks like the.

I

Other kind of architecture, I would like to see architecture that was more.

I

Compatible with the historic district itself, but I recognize there's a massing.

I

Dialog there that's very difficult to conduct and I I'm also worried. I'm.

I

Afraid that not developing that north-east corner of the west lot is a.

I

Kind of a cop-out to the design issues that came up in the first round, a couple.

I

Of years ago, and a vacant lot is a pretty decent transition, but I don't.

I

Know how long it's going to be vacant if the same development company owns it? I.

I

Don't want to avoid that conversation in this development. I think it needs to be.

I

Addressed if there are plans for it, they need to be expressed, but yeah. It takes a.

I

Little longer than one look to get close to something, but that's those are all my.

I

Comments for now.

A

Be nice if the developer would be that.

A

Rachel wouldn't be use making a screen space yeah. It's just a courtesy review.

E

At this stage, I think the first iteration of their project dipped into.

E

The restaurant road historic district, a little bit that contributing property in.

E

The northeast corner of the west lot, I think the developer responded to that.

E

By just not including it so, the sort preservation commission really doesn't.

E

Have purview over what we're seeing today, I think what we're seeing today is.

E

Strictly just a cursory review and we've fulfilled our function with that: okay,.

J

A

We don't have any more new business, I don't see any old business agenda. Do you.

A

Have any commissioner comments hearing them? Are there any public comments.

A

Hearing them, we don't have any announcements, so we move the wage-earner.

A

Ii, thank you everybody for participating today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So.

A

J