City of Bloomington, Indiana Our Table, Our Talk, 21 Feb 2019

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From YouTube: Our Table, Our Talk Episode 3: Mental Health and Trauma, Part 2

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The third of four episodes of Our Table, Our Talk

Did you know that only one-in-three African Americans in need of mental health care actually receive it? Guests Rhemma Payne and Jasmine Dennie discuss this fact and more in this week's episode of Our Table, Our Talk. Rhemma, a Mental Health Professional, speaks about barriers and resources for people of color receiving mental health help. Jasmine shares her story of trauma due to her bother's untreated mental health.

Guests:
Rhemma Payne
Jasmine Dennie
Hosted by Beverly Calender-Anderson
Produced by City Of Bloomington's Community and Family Resources Department
Directed by Justin Crossley

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Welcome to our table our talk, a program of the community and family resources.

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Department of the city of bloomington in honor of black history month, we're.

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Talking about issues involving african-americans living in bloomington.

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These conversations are in no way meant to be only for african americans. However,.

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Their midst to spark conversations throughout the community welcome to part.

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Two of our conversation on mental health and emotional wellness: I want to start.

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By talking to one of our guests today, jasmine denny, who has had some trauma in.

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Her life and I'm just gonna, ask jasmine. If you can tell us a little bit of your.

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Story and the trauma that you've experienced okay. So when I was 12 years.

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Old, my oldest brother, he struggled with.

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Mental illness, and so one morning he waited for my sister to arrive home and.

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He decided that he didn't want my family to go through any hurt or any pain.

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Anymore, so he then went on and and took a gun and he murdered my brother. My.

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Sister, my nephew, my stepmom and my, and he shot my grandmother who survived.

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Because she played dead, but she was the one that ended up, telling a story so and.

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Then he took the gun, put a smile on his face and he killed himself, and so this.

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Happened september 27 2003 in gary indiana at 5:00 a.m. so that was the.

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Beginning and the start of a very trauma filled life for tina. So and I can.

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Imagine thank you so much for sharing that with us, but how has that happened.

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Down through the years affected, you do you think um so this effect, meaning.

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In many different ways, it has caused me to lose many relationships.

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I don't trust very often one like strong effect right after it's happening, that.

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Happened, I got diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.

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December 8th of that same year, and so I became insulin dependent and they, the.

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Doctors were saying it was brought on by stress and different things like that.

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And so you know just being 12 years old and going through that waking up you.

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Have a full family and then you don't, you know, and it was like they were.

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Snatched away from me, you know by your own flesh and blood.

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You know that was my oldest brother, so you know that was somebody. You know you.

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Saw as a protector- and so you know forever for him that then you know be.

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The reason be the cause of so much distress, but just just carrying on. I.

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Then just went into a huge down spiral. I was, I was horrible. You know I went to.

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Five different high schools- I was always fighting. You know. I never went to class.

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I never cared about what happened to me. I never really took care of my diabetes.

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I probably lost probably 60 pounds within those those years. You know, but.

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Nothing really mattered to me because I felt like well: why did they have to go.

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You know I I should have been with him. You know I didn't understand why it was.

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Them, and not me, you know just like: why am I left on this earth to experience so.

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Much hurt- and you know to experience the rebuttal from all of that and that had.

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Happened so just experiencing that and going through that pain, it began a lot.

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Of turmoil in my life, you know I was not a nice person. I wasn't saying that was a.

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Good person, I was fighting the good jasmine.

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You know I was fighting, I wanted to be the jasmine that ran the streets. I.

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Wanted to be the jasmine that didn't care, how I talked to my mom. It got so.

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Bad my mom was like you, you know you have to go, you know, so I ended up coming.

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Here for for school, for a little while and my brother as an undergrad one of my.

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Older brothers, as an undergrad then took me in his home. You know and because my.

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Mom was like this is too much. I don't know what's going on, but it's just like.

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I didn't care, I had no, you know no remorse for anything that I did have.

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Said you know, I didn't nothing mattered to me and so that that just started that.

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Huge downfall of you know what was known as like, very very, very dark moments in.

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My life and I will note that you told us off-camera that when this happened, you.

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Did receive family counseling, but that you, this kept triggering throughout your.

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Life, yes, yes, so I, um the city of gary, gave us family counseling. They pay for.

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Us to come so we went into gary methodist hospital.

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They had in-house counselors. You know just making sure that we're okay, because.

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You know at that time that was a huge like that was a I mean. Essentially it.

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Was a massacre, so it was a huge thing and so just with it being inside the.

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Family, you know they paid for us to to receive counseling, and so I went through.

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That went through the counselor as a 12 year old child. You know, and I didn't.

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Realize until I was well into my 20s that I probably needed to continue to go.

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And I probably needed to continue to be okay, we went probably three times and.

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You know I was like okay, we're good we're. Okay, we have to keep it moving.

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Life is happening. I have to go back to school on monday, you know, and it was it.

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Was hard for a very long time, as I would see my friends just all happy.

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Surrounding you know they were just playing outside and doing things, and I.

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Was just I was essentially depressed, you know and they were giving fake stuff for.

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Me with medication, you know different medications like prozac different things.

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That were supposed to help me, you know, be okay and it actually made me worse. I.

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Was summer I was like okay yeah, I don't. I don't care, you know. I have no feelings.

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About you or anything that you're talking about you know, and it it just it.

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Just started like a huge roll yeah remember I want to ask you: I mean there.

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Are people that and women, especially that suffered trauma a lot almost.

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Everyday not to the level of jasmine, but whether it's sexual assault or.

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Abandonment or things like that and and I think, a lot of times- that's held.

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Internalized yeah internalized and you know, and and we don't realize that it.

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Can trigger yeah over and over again, and can you talk about some of that and how.

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That that works definitely so you know thank you for sharing and being so and a.

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Couple things that stick out just with trauma and even trauma that a whole.

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Family can experience everyone's taking away their individual kind of perception.

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Of what happened and internalizing a belief so when you bring up black women.

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Specifically, we see a lot of role models and you know it's just kind of portrayed.

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To us to just be strong, and so even as you mentioned, being 12 years old.

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I wonder how much of that is, you know just pick up and move on right. We've.

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Given you three sessions and now seeing that hey, this might need to follow. You.

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Throughout you know, you're going through adolescence, which is already a hard time.

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But right off of this trauma. But there is a lot of that because we see a lot of.

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Strong black women and it's celebrated and it should be, but I don't know that.

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The emotional kind of attending to yet there's experiences we're carrying with.

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Us, and are we kind of stopping to kind of check in on those.

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And so emotional wellness comes up. Just are we looking at that and my will and I.

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Could be you know, moving on and going through these milestones and like you.

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Said looking like I'm doing well and okay but yeah, there's there's so much.

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That happens inside out of that and, like you said internalizing, why wasn't it me.

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And that's what we don't see when you look at the whole family, oh yeah, it's.

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It's survivor's guilt, it's ptsd, it's the loss and the grief.

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That comes with the loss of family members. All of that I think plays into.

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That, and it reminds me of the ptsd that that someone would have that was in the.

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Military that you know experienced that kind of thing, and I know that that that.

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You know just anything a sound bump in the road or anything can just trigger.

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Now yeah and take you right back- and you had some of that- oh very much so so for.

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Me it was bathtubs because we had to have the funeral and a convention center.

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And we had a four casket funeral only because my nephew was buried with my.

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Sister, he everyone else had a single shot. That.

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That passed away had a single shopper. My nephew woke up crying, and so my.

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Sister woke up from hearing this from hearing him crying, and so she was.

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Protecting him, so they were taken out with 14 bullets. 12 was found inside my.

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Nephew and so he was 2 years old, so I'm just as a 2 year old. You know so just.

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Just anything white in a box I could not see, I couldn't see caskets. I couldn't.

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See bathtubs, you know, and for a very long time I couldn't see women with.

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Babies, you know, because I was like they didn't- even have a choice. My sister, she.

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Was a very, very, very young mom, you know, and so she didn't have that choice to.

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Then be able to raise my a few and it was disheartening. I would.

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See them, I would be riding in the backseat of my mom's car and I would see.

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My sister on the sidewalk holding his hand and then they would look right at.

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Me and wave you know, and so I was plagued with a lot of things. I would.

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Just see them everywhere, you know it was like. Oh my gosh, you know just doing.

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Regular stuff that we would do you know, and so it was, it was detrimental, but.

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Yeah my excuse me. I can't say that my biggest biggest thing was bathtubs. I'm.

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Just goodnight, you know I just was like okay, I don't.

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Want to look in them, it just hurt me every time because they're their caskets.

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Were white and gold, and so like I don't want to see yeah, it was horrible for me.

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So how how do we, as women I mean and and aside from the trauma but the everyday.

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Stressors, because, on top of that fantastic trump I mean you just have.

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Everyday stress of being right, black in america or a female in america, or a.

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Black female in america. How do we as women deal or not deal well with with.

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Some of us, as you talked about, or I think you talked about being like the.

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Strong black woman and something to be celebrated, something that is celebrated.

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But also something that causes us a lot of stress yeah. I feel you know to speak.

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To how do we, I think just recognizing it to you and making spaces where it is.

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Okay, to have those moments, and so I think of a time I was at a conference.

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And you know they had us: do this activity, where we kind of listed out our.

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Identity- or you know just words, just very brief, and I had just given a.

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Presentation earlier so I was feeling good, so that was the first thing that came out, and I was surprised that black woman was the last thing I put okay and.

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Usually that's first yeah, and so just really this discussion of we're kind of.

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In and out of this identity, we wear our identity.

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And it's only when I'm reminded something happens, so you know several.

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Weeks later had an encounter with someone where I was reminded le I'm.

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Black and so that tone you're singing with me: okay, I'm a woman, so you're.

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Minimizing my you know, emotions called me, you know panicky or you know just.

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Words that I know or maybe not given to a male if they're responding a certain.

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Way, and so it's in those moments, it's brought back to the front and I have to.

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Address it and I recognize okay yeah. This is something I can't escape.

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Interesting, I I can- I was thinking about this earlier this week and I don't think.

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I've ever not been able to think about I'm black, I'm a woman. You know I'm a.

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Black woman in a majority white community, you know with no real.

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Close-Knit black community, except the community that we've created for.

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Ourselves, and so I find that to be just it's almost like you're, I don't know, I.

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Think about it as walking through mud, like you know, like every day, you're just.

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Sort of waving through through my because you know that there's going to.

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Be another whether it's, whether it's a microaggression, whether somebody just.

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You know like looks at you and says something stupid that you think you need.

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To yeah or or how the media portrays us, you know, and and ever you look at.

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Television and you don't see yourself or when you see someone that looks like you.

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It's nothing like you know. You know that representative at all, and and so I think.

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That there are always these things coming at us and and again making that.

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Stress level rise, I know I mean you talked about the diabetes and you know.

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And then, ultimately in the neuropathy that it caused me, and so I you know, I.

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Know with myself, you know there are things that if I'm getting overstressed.

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You know, then, I have fibromyalgia, it flares up, you know, or you know, all of.

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Those things start to flare yeah, so you know brings up a good point too, about.

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What do we do, since it can happen so often.

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Day and just we're walking through it, we can't escape it, and so I think it is.

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That, where are my safe spaces, maybe his friends that you don't have to explain.

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It to you know, I think, there's difference. I think there are people who can be supportive and want to hear you, but then there are people, I don't maybe have to lead in with what just happened, or you know have a lot of questions you.

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Know just get it if I say this is how they responded and you know, brings up.

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That feeling that someone else could recognize and then just knowing from.

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That support just getting that confidence- and this is you know it's not.

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Who, I am you know like just almost like having to just have this automatic kind.

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Of you know, I heard it don't have to keep it, throw it back out. This is the.

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Reality of it and being able to vent for me is helpful, and I found you know just.

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Going to other folks and just sharing that was enough, it was like a weight.

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Lifted because it happens, you can start thinking about crazy. Am I just being.

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Sensitive, you know all these things like no, you know so it's just even hearing.

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That so, you could move on yeah. In our previous session we talked about you.

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Know the barber shop being a place where men gathered and so maybe you're not.

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Seeking out professional counseling, but you go to the barber shop and there's a.

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Place where you can then wear and you don't have to explain you know they're.

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Just people that understand I have you know some close girlfriends and I know.

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Other people do too, but a lot of times. Professional counseling is, you know.

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Required or necessary, but then there's also sometimes a reluctance and I think.

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Especially for us, I told someone the story about my mom. I mean my mom is that.

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Is she's hardcore suck it up right? You know suck it up and keep it moving. You.

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Know because we don't have time, you know we don't we'll have time for that and so.

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I had to come to the point where it's like. Okay, I can't suck this up anymore.

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You know, and I'm gonna have to do something different, and so I don't know.

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If you found that in your life as well- yes, yes, so I've just come to the.

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Realization that I have to allow myself to feel things and I have to stay in.

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That moment acknowledge what's going on, you know, accept it and not beat myself.

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Up about it, you know I have to be able to be okay or.

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Else I will just like bottle everything in and just let it sit and sit and sit.

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Until I explode, you know and then you know I come off, you know like a.

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Stereotypical black woman, that society, who would say you know, come on angry.

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Crazy, you know just you know, and you know I'm not that at all just I've been.

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Through a lot- and if you I didn't, have the tools you know to deal with it, you.

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Know it was very much so that suck it up. You have to keep it moving. You know I.

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Went to school the next week, you know yeah, you know that's something that I.

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Feel like I should have just maybe taking some more time. You know been able.

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To deal with it, but you know if you aren't prepared for something like that.

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It's like well, then. What do you do if you prepares for that yeah right, yeah.

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You can train you prepared exactly, but I think it's important too, that some of.

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The stigma that comes along with with mental health and and and and I don't.

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Even want to say mental illness, because I think it's just a matter of being healthy that that we try to diminish that stigma in that. And you know that.

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Comes in and it's not just in the black community, it's in the community at large.

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But it was interesting. You know I was like when you were talking about that. I.

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Was thinking we can either be the strong black woman or we can be an angry black.

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And I think you know we do have to normalize now saying what that is.

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So many practices in counseling that are, you know, seen in other practices right.

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If you think it's spirituality, which is huge in the black community yeah, there's.

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You know demystifying, and you know when I think of meditation. It's like okay,.

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There's components of that we can draw from right and I feel like the.

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Counseling field can do better at making those connections. It's not like hey, come.

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Over here try all these new things. We have to acknowledge that there's a.

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History with not only mental health, medical health who is using clients and.

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Patients, yeah studies and things like that. So there's a mistrust and we have.

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To address that, as well and kind of bridge that gap yeah, we.

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You know maybe not even reinvent but integrate here's what's working. You have.

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This strong faith: how can we bring that into counseling or here's? What's working.

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You do meditation and yoga. How can we bring that into counseling and not so.

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Much I've just do what we think is best, because so so are there practices that.

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Do that that sort of try to combine it and and look at it in a more holistic.

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Way with your faith or your your spiritual practices or beliefs and bring.

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That into the counseling definitely- and I think more so now, just seeing that.

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There is like, I think, within larger society. A push forward has overall.

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Wellness- and so I think we can really maximize that and just oh, I want to be.

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Well, and so, if we make it kind of like this, oh okay, everybody's got their yoga.

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Studio, yeah I've got this and now I got my counsellor and I think it's starting.

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To come in that way, and I could see it going into in other communities that way.

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This is my wellness team, basically yeah yeah, and that makes sense I mean I have.

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Seen and unfortunately, I've seen religion and churches sometimes not. Oh.

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Yeah yeah: don't do this yeah yeah fine, because you're here and it can pray more.

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Yeah, you know or if you pray harder you know or and especially because I've.

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Worked in the area of domestic abuse, it's um and and to see people being sent.

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Back to abusive situations and because that's what the religion says and so.

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That you know it's dis, finding that right space and those things that work.

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You know a lot of conversations yeses in that.

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Yeah because I just think about it- that's been your faith tradition. All.

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Your life growing up, yeah yeah, it's hard to tear away from that, and then you do.

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Think it's something wrong with you wrong with you. What kinds of signs or.

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Even should people be looking for if they think they might need some, they.

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Might need counselling, or they may need just to talk to someone, because counselling doesn't have to be. I'm not the expert. But I'm just saying.

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Counselling doesn't have to be a five year long thing. You know you sometimes.

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People just may need someone to speak with and so yeah. What should they be?.

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Looking for you know, I think you know if we look at it from a wellness.

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Perspective, I think everyone can use someone to touch base with so there's.

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Brief counseling, there's counseling for specific events, trauma counseling, so.

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Finding what works for you or what you need, but a sign that probably be time to.

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Reach out to someone would be, if you know the symptoms and stress is starting.

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To impact your functioning at work or school you're not able to you, know, get.

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Out of bed and things where you're just kind of stuck, and sometimes it can.

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Really just help boost that and give you the tools but yeah. The goal is for you.

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To be able to do these on your own, there are certain things that ya may take a.

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Little bit longer, but just the nature of unraveling things you may uncover, but.

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Yeah for a majority of people- sometimes you know brief. Counseling is all they.

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Need really, you know some so make it over the hump clients come in. You know.

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And they just talk and hear themselves and that's what they need if they just.

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Needed a space where it was okay, not someone, they knew, who had some type of.

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Investment in them being better, that's sometimes the issue with going to.

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Friends, friends, don't want you to be sad, so they're gonna tell you, don't be sad.

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Give you don't cry all these things, but where can I go to cry if I just need to.

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Do that, and sometimes you just need to cry yeah and then you're fine. You know.

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And so it helps them see. Oh okay, all this was in me anyways, I'm gonna need it.

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To do it yeah, and so you know I I would say: don't hesitate to reach out it.

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Doesn't mean you're gonna be locked in, like you said, I don't know that.

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Sometimes it can be expensive. Sometimes you know I mean there are different.

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Reasons that that people don't know, I think, if you can find that place, you.

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Know, and maybe you know it's not a place, maybe it's just that space with your.

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Girlfriends over a glass of one- sometimes you know if you did that's what you need that we should encourage people to do that. I just I hope that.

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There's something about not only this conversation but other conversations.

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That are happening that that says it's okay to talk about it yeah. You know it's.

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Okay, I mean you talking about your story. Thank you again for that, but I mean it's.

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It's okay, you know and and you're okay and you know and and ultimately you know.

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We all can feel productive and and and move through society. The way we need you.

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In bloomington, are there resources that people can access for different services.

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Definitely so for more immediate services, there's, of course, the hospital.

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So if you're kind of feeling in danger to yourself or someone else immediate.

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Need would be to call 9-1-1, there's meadows hospital, which is a hospital.

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That takes walk-ins that way for crisis center. Stone takes.

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Crisis walk-ins and then there's just a myriad of other services. If you're.

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Wanting to consult with someone, I know a lot of therapists that they'll have a.

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Phone conversation with you, so you can kind of see. Okay. What are you looking at.

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You know for and what kind of things are you wanting to discuss? I like to talk to.

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Everyone, you know just just explain the perspective I come from because it may.

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Not be a good fit. So if you're, in a situation where it's not like a.

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Immediate need, I would say you know, just do some research. Psychology today is a.

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Website where you can kind of plug in your insurance, if you want to use that.

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You can plug in, I want christian counseling you can plug in. You know.

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Different things, so that's a route to go to as well. Fine yeah all right well,.

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Thanks a lot, thank you for being here jazmin. Thank you for being here. Thank.

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You so much for sharing your story. I I think you're gonna help so many people.

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Just by by sharing your story and letting us know that it's an ongoing.

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Process, that's another one and done okay. So thank you so much bad things and if.

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You like what we've talked about today, please don't forget to like comment or.

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Share it on facebook, thank you for joining us at our table. Our talk.

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