City of Boulder, CO Planning Board, 27 May 2021

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From YouTube: 5-27-21 Boulder Planning Board - Affordable Housing 101 with BHP

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5-27-21 Boulder Planning Board - Affordable Housing 101 with BHP

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: open comment. Period, did we want to just briefly remind people what those rules are.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): yep. Let me pull that up real quick.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: and while you're doing that, I see the recording just started,. So I will reiterate that we have a quorum and it's the may 27 planning board meeting.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): thank you, david great.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I know this is last minute to put those up I.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, probably most people have seen the rules before,, but thank you jane.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): many times, I'm sure., jean gatza, cob (she/her):, just to make sure, just to just to remind folks.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): okay,, are you seeing my screen.

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jean gatza, cob (she/her): yes,, fabulous, okay um, as usual,. Welcome to the planning board meeting this meeting,. We have certain protocol for these virtual meetings.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): and any activities that disrupt delay or otherwise interfere with the meeting are prohibited, will have a short open comment here in just a moment.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her):, and we will you can use the raise hand function to. Let us know if you would like to address the board,. We typically do three minutes each for those.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her):, we ask that folks use, please use a full name and we are in the webinar format,. So all of our board meetings and our get our special guests that are presenting will be using the video,, but other folks will participate by voice. Only.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her):, the chat question should not be about comments or questions to the board,. They should really just be about technical issues. You are welcome to email the board. If you have additional questions or comments on this topic at boulder planning, board.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): boulder boulder planning board at boulder colorado duck off. That's right! Okay! um I think that's! That's the basics.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): yeah.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): then has mentioned open comment, but I'm seeing know that okay, there's lupica.

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jean gatza, cob (she/her):, hey. What should we do? You want to open open comment. Now.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: sure, um let's go ahead and open the open comment and gene,. If you would like to call on people on with the raised hands,, I think we've seen that liam and date of adamson it's in are both interested in speaking great.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): okay,, when you can go ahead.

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Lynn, segal:: I think that you need.

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Lynn, segal: income levels for all the people that are going to potentially be brought into boulders by housing, that.

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Lynn, segal:, affordable housing, that's demanded,, because the affordable housing creates with it a demand for more affordable housing.

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Lynn segal:, so if you can itemize on a scale of one to 10 the income levels of all the people involved,, then you can actually do real planning.

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Lynn, segal:, because the way it's working now you're chasing your tail as we get more and more jobs, and you accommodate him more and more with housing, and it's not deciphered which level of job it is. There is no such thing as work, work and workforce. Housing gets levels of income, housing.

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Lynn, segal: and you're just getting more of a problem all the time that,. Then you have to accommodate for and at the same time, you're required by the voltage rally comp plan to meet, jobs, housing, balance.

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Lynn, segal: and you're, not because you haven't, got the criteria to do it. The other types of data to do it and you aren't looking at it in the correct way to be able to even do.

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Lynn, segal: well, to me it's.

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Lynn, segal: impossible that that you're not doing that. Why aren't you doing? Why isn't there a discussion,? Why do I can every single time and say the same thing.

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Lynn, segal: and no one even can respond to me on an email and say: oh when you're wrong, because of this now know, like just show some respect for your public to at least acknowledge that I said something, and if you disagree, disagree with it, but.

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Lynn segal:. The problem that I see is there's no master plan. There's nobody at the wheel. You react.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): when we're getting a little there's some feedback.

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Lynn, segal: on a reactionary.

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Lynn segal: thing that you're doing in response to the jobs, housing imbalance. It's not setting it up to be thanks for nodding a little bit like acknowledging, I'm speaking and.

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It would be nice to have some level of a dialogue, some.

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Lynn, segal:. That would be really useful as much more martha housing market style housing,, because it uses a lot less square footage per person and that translates to not having to go higher in the height limit.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): thanks lynn.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her):, okay, um let's see david your.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): chest there we go.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): david,, you should be able to um you.

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David adamson:, hello, lovely planning, board.

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david adamson: members,. Thank you so much for your service on this beautiful day when, when we'd all love to be outdoors but.

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David adamson: beautiful topic, today,, and I hope we can get more members of the public to listen to this great presentation. I'm so glad that you're doing this.

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David adamson: and I'll be recording will be available for other people,. I wanted to follow up on the planning boards end of season letter,, where they wanted to counsel asking that it'd be a priority, this year to try to actually implement the lovely infill pilot criteria. That.

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David adamson: got into the main update and that we've been trying to implement for several years and you've you've heard about it at other meetings as part of the midterm update.

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David adamson: unfortunately,, we weren't able to pursue it in that venue, but there have been several expressions of interest in that by the planning board and by city council,, including their june 2 2020 meeting and.

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David adamson:, I sent you all, an email very via cindy to acknowledge charles pharaoh's comment at the retreat in january that there wasn't a staffer sources to do that,. I think we disagree.

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David adamson:, quite a large degree, about the amount of staffers sources that would be needed just to do a very modest pilot program. With a lot of neighborhood volunteer, including expert volunteer assistance, and, of course,. We have a project already to go on north street, as we showed in that.

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David adamson: proposal for midterm update,, so I I would I really just I've emailed you all and I've emailed, gene and gene and charles have discussed it,. We certainly understand that the the pressing.

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David adamson: problem for staff, and I'm just wondering if we could hear you know,, obviously not tonight, but.,.

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David adamson:, what the situation is with arpa funds so just to maybe allocate a modest amount of the art the $20 million,, the city of boulder, is going to get to address the problem that the that.

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David adamson:, the mit, the boulder fairly comprehensive plan, says, is our number one problem, which is adding middle income housing.

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David adamson: and I want to highlight the podcast and strong towns about strong suburbs. I've sent you a variety of you that,, but this is a an approach that empowers. Neighbors empowers renters.

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David adamson: and I think it would be very attractive across the the the housing spectrum,. So I urge you to look at that and I'd love to hear back from staff about how we can make it work for, for everyone and I'd love to help..

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David adamson:, you know,, provide the resources for us to follow up on that that letter from planning board on the info pilot criteria. On page one of the comprehensive plan, thank you.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her): thanks david. jean gatza, cob (she/her): okay,. I was able to fix the raise hand, function but,. If anyone else would like to address the board.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her):, please let us know., jean gatza, cob (she/her): by either using the raise hand function, or you can message me in the chat.

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Jean gatza, cob (she/her):, I think we're good.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: looks like we're good okay, thank you, and thanks so much for the interest from the public and for.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, reminding us to insert a public comment section peter welcome, thank you,. I know you,, you are having to join us from.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: from puerto rico. um It's it's great that you were able to make it at the start in the evening. Thank you. So much, and.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: welcome everybody else, so tonight,. So this is a study session is single study session item.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: I'll, just put in before I hand it over to staff,. I want to just say how important this affordable housing update will be to us we're really looking forward to it and just also put in a little plug, but we'll be.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: diving deep into the question of of middle income housing in our retreat,, so this will.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, give us a lot of really good information that will help help us having a good conversation and our retreat so, and that is also a public meeting that people can come watch as well,. So with that.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: I'll go ahead and turn it over to charles pharaoh, who will be introducing us to the entire team and don't before I do that.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I think it would be appropriate to at least try to allow people to ask questions on slides there. Aren't.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I don't think there are a lot of slides in this presentation,, so we should be able to maybe ask questions on subjects as they come up,. It might be a little bit more productive that way.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. If it gets to be you know, I want to try to keep it to know more than like five minutes on a slide or something,, but if.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. If people have specific questions that they want to ask on a slide, just go ahead and raise your hand and I'll I'll call on you, before we transition to the next slide. If that's okay,, and with that I'll hand it over to charles pharaoh to kick us off.

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Cob, charles ferro:, great thanks so much david, good evening, members of the board for the audience, I'm charles pharaoh and the development review manager here at the city of boulder.

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Cob charles ferro: and first I'd like to welcome our special guests and thank them for taking the time to be here. Tonight.

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Cob, charles ferro:, so if we can take a minute to introduce our guest speakers for joining here this evening, vijay subnet, your planner with the city's housing and human services department.

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Cob, charles ferro:, laura shine bomb who's, the director of real estate, development for boulder housing partners,, as well as the and swallow it was a project manager for boulder housing, partner, so.

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Cob, charles ferro: tonight,, the team is going to be presenting some really helpful and I think useful information related to how permanently affordable housing is regulated..

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Cob charles ferro: developed, managed and maintained over time here in boulder, so we really look forward to the board's conversation and questions this evening. I'm very pleased to turn it over to jason who's, going to kick us off the seat. So thanks very much.

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Cob jay sugnet: a few turns so it's a pleasure to meet the new planning board members,. What have you I do now so jay segments with housing and human services,, so I just thought it'd be helpful to provide a bit of an overview of what.

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Cob jay sugnet: the city's role in terms of providing affordable housing in the community,, and then I want to turn it over to lauren ian, which I think is really the main attraction so.

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Cob jay sugnet:, as I mentioned, talking about the different roles,, but I also wanted to just share some trends and successes. What we're seeing happening in boulder and then talk more about the city's role.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so I don't think this is a surprise to anybody,. You can see the green line. It are detached home, sale prices. So back in 20 december 2020 we still stay under a million dollars for a detached single family home.

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Cob jay sugnet:, my guess is that we will find the break the million dollar very this year with the way the markets in the past three or four months,. And then you can see what it is for, detached and really the problem is,. You can see his incomes,, but blue line.

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Cob jay sugnet: is the area median income and that just has not been keeping up with home prices.

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Cob jay sugnet:, similar story with rent rents are still relatively more affordable,, but they have been increasing significantly over the past decade or two..

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Cob jay sugnet: and then I thought it would be helpful to throw out some terms,, because I think we've struggled just a little bit.

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Cob jay sugnet:, I thrown out a lot of numbers, and I think it overwhelms people,. So I put this slide together this morning and hopefully it's helpful helpful. So when we talk about affordable housing, sort of the industry standard is a household is no more than 30% of their income on housing.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so that's sort of industry wide in boulder. When I talk about affordable housing and mostly going to be talking about permanently affordable.

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Cob jay sugnet:, because we can't rely on the market, to ensure that people aren't going to be paying more than 30%. So we have really focused our efforts on a program that requires a deed restriction or a covenant that ensures affordability in perpetuity.

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Cob jay, sugnet: and then, just how we measure that is important for everybody to understand. So it's based on area median income and amia is really a federal calculation. That's based on census data from boulder and.

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Cob jay sugnet: the area median income, so it's median so have earned more and have earned less and in 2021.

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Cob jay sugnet:- this was just updated, we're at 103,000 600 for a household of three and it scales up for larger households and it scales down slightly for smaller households, and since it's really close to 100% is real close to 100,000. It's really easy to think about this in terms of.

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Cob jay sugnet: low income, we're talking about people earning between zero and $60,000 a year or household, if three moderate 61 to 79 and then that middle income is people earning 80,000, 220,000.

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Cob jay sugnet: everybody's with me so far, no questions.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so over the years we've achieved quite a bit. We have currently 3767 really affordable units in our portfolio.

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Cob jay sugnet: 800 of those are ownership to balance our rental. We've made quite a bit of progress since 2000 when our program began in earnest,, with the adoption of the exclusionary housing program as well. As.

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Cob jay sugnet: setting the goal at 10%, which was recently updated.

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Cob jay sugnet: to 15% in 2018- and you know the program has evolved quite a bit over time and it responds to you know what are the current needs in the community and the most recent need in 2018 was adding the goal to apply to middle income previously previously to have a separate goal.

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Pb, sarah silver:, okay, sorry got it.

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Pb sarah silver:, you didn't.

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Cob jay sugnet:, like that.

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Pb sarah silver:: what is the what percent, what number of units are for sale or ownership.

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Cob jay sugnet: right now, it's 799 okay,. Thank you. Try.

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Pb,, jorge boone:, one more question,, maybe you're gonna you're gonna, have it in here,. I was curious what the mix was. Do you have that in here, as well, or like the mix of the size of the units, ones, twos threes.,.

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Cob jay sugnet: be. If you go to the our dashboard in the housing and human services web page,, you will see a breakout number of units by bedroom size, not square footage for a number of bedrooms. It also tell you who's living in those units by profession, as well. As.

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Cob jay sugnet:, the other one oh.

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Cob jay sugnet: ethnicity. So it's very interesting information,. So I encourage you to peruse that as well.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so the good news is, we have quite a few units, also in the pipeline,, so we have almost 1000 units that we expect to come online in the next one to say six years.

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Cob jay sugnet: and,, as I was saying, there's quite a bit of adaptation over over time in the program and probably the most recent one, is that we are now.

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Cob jay sugnet:, requiring of most funding that we provide to our housing partners that be somewhere between five and 15% of all of the units will be permanently supportive. Housing.

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Cob jay sugnet:, if you're not familiar with that term, it's really that first step from from a shelter so providing wraparound services, mental health, physical health.

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Cob jay sugnet: addiction, prevention or addiction services, and it's a way to help them make that next step into more permanent housing.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so there are quite a few things that go into achieving our goals,. So we have a combination, regulations, policies, investments, planning board, I'm sure is very familiar with how exclusionary housing works, the commercial linkage fees.

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Cob jay sugnet: that were recently adopted.

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Cob jay sugnet: is a big component of that we get quite a few units through annexation and actually the vast majority of our homeownership units come in through annexation. You should be familiar with that.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so there's also policies that help us get to our goals,. We have a middle income strategy and, as david mentioned you'll, be talking about that in more detail next month,, so I won't spend too much time.

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Cob jay sugnet: there is a strategy for manufactured housing and trying to make sure that we preserve a housing type. That's inherently affordable in boulder.

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Cob jay sugnet: and then preservation and I'm going to talk quite a bit about preservation and in a second and it's that investment piece,. So we have local and federal funds and a big part of the way that we're able to achieve our goals is to leverage that money.

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Cob jay, sugnet: and I'll talk about that more and we couldn't do it without our partners,, because the city of boulder does not own or operate any sort of affordable housing. We rely on our partners to do that for us.

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Cob jay sugnet:. So over the past six years we've brought in about just over $66 million in funding and.

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Cob jay sugnet:, you know 20 about a quarter of that is through our property. Tax 16% over the last six years was through federal funds that that slice of the pie has been.

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Cob jay sugnet: decreasing consistently over the past 20 to 30 years or we'll talk about that. A little bit more. The commercial linkage fees.

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Cob jay sugnet: that will become a bigger slice, making up for the loss of federal funds, but really the the big source of funding is caching layer. So, as you can see, it's it's just under half of our funding sources and we call it the sort of workhorse of affordable housing.

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Cob jay sugnet:, and I just wanted to show you that it is quite variable over time, in terms of when it comes in, it's very dependent, dependent.

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Cob jay sugnet: and, as you can see, those commercial linkage, fees are definitely playing a much bigger role.

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Cob jay sugnet:, more recently,, the full fee was phased in, just this year. So that's why you're seeing higher numbers.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: again,. I had a question on the commercial linkage fees,. So when a commercial linkage fees paid in a percentage of that goes to affordable housing and then other percentages go to other funding needs from commercial is. Is that how it works or does,? Most of it go to affordable, housing.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so there are fees for a variety of things. Housing is is one of them,. There are smaller fees, I don't know the topics off the, off the top of my head,, but there's parks, there's.

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Cob jay sugnet: somebody helping out charles. I think there were five or six different categories, but.

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Cob jay sugnet: housing. cob jay sugnet:. By far the largest.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: yeah, it's municipal facilities, police, fire, transportation.,.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: parks and recreation., hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, human services, but yeah that by far almost all goes into affordable housing. It's a very large number of that goes to affordable, housing.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, and, actually,. Let me correct that I'm looking at the tables of the parks and recreation and human services that.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: is actually a resident residential impact fee,, but for commercial properties, it's municipal facilities, police, fire, affordable housing, transportation and just as an example for office, uses this year.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: I'll, give you last year because it's not, I don't have my cookbook updated,, but last year,, affordable housing was $24.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: per square foot, the floor area and the total impact fee was 26 point 18 and then this year,, the affordable housing portion, went up to $30, so even more than the total last year,. So it just shows you what a small percentage. The rest of the impact fee is compared to affordable housing.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: perfect. Thank you. I've always kind of wondered how much I went to those other other things.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so next,. I just want to talk about how we use those funds,, so we combine all those they go into our affordable housing, fun.

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Cob jay sugnet: and the beauty of that is we're able to leverage those local dollars, with two to $3 and outside funding. Money and laura is going to go into this more detail.

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Cob jay sugnet: those funds are competitively distributed to our affordable housing providers and always the funder inquests exceed available. Funds.

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Cob jay sugnet:, one of the major benefits of being able to provide funding to a project is that we can provide deeper affordability, so.

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Pb sarah silver: jay, I'm sorry you're. You are swallowing the end of many of your sentences,. Could you just speak up a little bit.

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Pb sarah silver: sure thank you so much. I'm sorry.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so the one of the big advantages of the affordable housing and leveraging those funds is that we can fund a project and provide deeper affordability.

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Cob jay sugnet:, and that means a typical, affordable project, may focus on rental units that provide.

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Cob jay sugnet:, rents at 60% am I,, and what this does is it allows us to provide additional funding so that we can provide units that are lower sick 30 to 40 and 50% am I.

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Cob jay sugnet:. There are a number of other benefits as well, so,. In addition to providing new construction.

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Cob jay sugnet:, our housing authority, is by far our most important partner.

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Cob jay sugnet: in terms of constructing new units,, but we also have other nonprofits in boulder and we even have private, affordable providers,, which I think you've all seen. Those projects and.

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Planning board.

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cob, jay sugnet:, but the what you don't really see it has to do with preservation, so there's quite a bit of emphasis,, particularly in the last five to seven years, on acquisition and rehabilitation of existing homes. And there are two examples: cancer in the nest.

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Cob jay sugnet:, but that money also helps us to fund homebuyer and home education, home home ownership, education,, as well as owner occupied residential rehabilitation, to ensure that the help low income homeowners maintain their homes and also to prevent foreclosures in our affordable, units..

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Cob jay sugnet:. We want to make sure that people can remain in their homes.

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Cob jay sugnet:. It also allows us to land,. So one thing that you may not you probably familiar with hello park and 30 pearl, but the planning reserve, the city recently purchased at least interest for 30 acres for the future of housing in the plan.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: yeah. It seems like there's a little technical glitch with the sentences,, but I think when you move closer to the microphone, it got a little better and.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, he's done that previous slide um,. It is the ponderosa. Our project fall under the preservation category. Would you say, since it's kind of keeping the same number of units, or I don't know if that's kind of a special case, I guess.

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Cob jay sugnet: yeah, I would it is a special case. It's also an example where the city does own and operate affordable, housing,, but no yeah,. The idea is we are,. It is an acquisition and rehabilitation of homes.

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Cob jay sugnet: right so yeah. I would say it's it's a good example.

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Pb sarah silver:, can I ask another question j and if it's, if, if it's something you're going to get to later, just will flag it,, you can come back to it, but um.

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Pb sarah silver: is there a difference in how the city works with its nonprofit partners and versus how it works or doesn't work with the for profit,, affordable housing, developers.

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Cob jay sugnet:, that's a good question.

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cob jay sugnet: no,. I would say,, as I said, that the funds are awarded competitively. So even the housing authority is competing against the private, affordable providers and the nonprofits so.

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Cob jay sugnet:, you know they they're just different advantages that a private or nonprofit or the housing authority have over private, affordable providers. So it's it's a little bit of apples to oranges.

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Cob jay sugnet:, but I can't tell you exactly the mechanisms,, but, like I said, they are, it is competitive,. We don't treat the different, the different partners very differently,, although it is.

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Pb sarah silver: going to follow up, I'm sorry,, let me just follow her is, is um but is how the dollars are leveraged or used, or the oversight that the city has any difference.

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Pb sarah silver: between the two types of providers, no.

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Cob jay sugnet: no,. If they are receiving city money, they still have all the strings attached to that money. So they have to record the covenant.

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Cob jay sugnet:: they have to meet all of our funding requirements and we enforce those through a funding. Agreement.

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Cob jay sugnet: does that help, yes, thank you.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: john: did you want to.

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Pb john gerstle: yeah just just to follow up on this competition. Can you describe the criteria on which decisions are made,? For you know, if there's competition,, how do you, how do you make the decision? What to support.

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Cob jay sugnet:, you know and- and I would say laura might be able to answer this even better than I can so.

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Pb john gerstle: well, I mean. pb john gerstle: laura's, is with one of the competitors.

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Pb john gerstle: yes,, so I'm interested in how the city addresses.

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Cob jay sugnet: and she is familiar with the process- was my only point.

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Cob jay sugnet:, so what one thing to keep in mind,? So what we do is we provide gap financing,, so we will not fund a program or project unless they have already secured.

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Cob jay sugnet:, some sort of low income, housing tax credit deal or some side of sort of outside funding,. So what we do is we help get a project across the finish line by providing that funding where there's a gap,, because the low income housing tax credit may not pay for all the expenses of building.

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Cob jay sugnet: does that make sense. John so.

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Cob jay sugnet: is that.

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Cob jay sugnet:. How competitive is that proposal, and a lot of that gets evaluated by the colorado, housing and finance authority, and what we're doing is just making sure that that project can actually occur in the city of boulder..

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Pb john gerstle: so, are you looking at how much is needed, and how many.

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Pb, john gerstle:, you know how much is needed per living unit and choosing the one that.

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Pb john gerstle: gives you the most limited living units per available dollar or or are there other criteria as well.

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Cob jay sugnet: there, are, and I,. I am not involved in that process,, so I can't give you very good details. But.

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Cob jay sugnet: funding, you know, amount per unit is definitely one of those big criteria. Criterion,, and you know it's also one that.

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Cob jay sugnet: that applies,, for you, know those the low income housing tax credits as well,, but I can let me get back to you in terms of I believe there is specific criteria,, because every project has to apply to the city and they have to meet certain.

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Cob jay sugnet:, you know they basically have to make the case for why they should receive city funding yeah. I apologize. I don't. I don't know the ins and outs of that but.

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Pb john gerstle:, okay, well.

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Pb john gerstle:, I think it'd be great to if you could send it to us. Later, thank you.

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Pb, peter vitale:, a quick question on that: day,. If you don't mind.

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Pb, peter vitale:, if for profit developers, we're not building affordable housing in the city.

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Pb, peter vitale:: what kind of deficit would we have, or would it be met by other groups.

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Cob jay sugnet:, I think it's difficult to say, um.

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Cob jay sugnet:. You know that I would argue that the deficit is huge.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, we are biggest.

G

cob jay sugnet: impediment is funding so having more more partners that are able to put deals together that are competitive. It's it's advancing our goals,, but I don't think it's easy to say whether or not.

G

Cob jay sugnet: what the exact numbers would be or wouldn't be.

N

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: as a point of reference,. Our portfolio has 1600 and 23 units in it,, so the total units at j show it. On a previous slide. You can kind of see the percentage of.

N

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, where at least phd is and there's other nonprofit, send that space as well, and then the rest would be the market rate private developers to work so pretty well split, I think.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, so what's the result of these regulations and policies and investment,, and so this is basically represents five years of information,, and this was done a couple years ago, pre pandemic.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but you can see, out of every hundred units new units that were constructed in boulder at one of those were market rate.

G

Cob jay, sugnet: and 19 were permanently affordable.

G

Cob jay sugnet: because of all those that funding that I was discussing,, we were able to preserve as permanently affordable and additional 17 units. So on average over that five year period, we were getting 36 new permanently affordable units in the city in any out of every hundred new units. Built.

G

Cob jay, sugnet: and then,, one of the other big advantages of preservation that acquisition, rehabilitation and preservation, has to do with distribution,. So you can see.

G

Cob jay sugnet:: this is a map of a boulder and where are affordable, housing units homes that are located, and if we relied entirely on exclusionary housing and we would only see.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, affordable units,, where there is new development or has been recently been new development in boulder. The preservation allows us to purchase units throughout the city and spread the affordable housing throughout.

H

Pb sarah silver: sorry,, I have a. I have a question j. Sorry about that. um There's a ongoing discussion, debate to discussion about the relative benefits. Of.

H

Pb sarah silver: and I think there are many- the relative benefits of.

H

Pb sarah silver: having the onsite having inclusion, are having done on site.

H

Pb sarah silver: versus making sure that the inclusion, the affordable housing permanently affordable housing is done it in a in an ape within a neighborhood trying to make the neighborhood more economically diverse. So I'm curious, I'm.

H

Pb, sarah silver:, not so sure, it's, whether your personal opinion or what the pros and cons are, what the position is that the housing department takes on those two options.

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Cob jay sugnet: yeah. I mean it's really it's a balance. Right, I mean ideally,. We would like to see the benefit of the cash is that we allows us to distribute the affordable housing throughout the city to more established parts of the city.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but there's also an inherent benefit in providing those units in the neighborhoods. There are newly development.

G

Cob jay sugnet: so,, and I would argue that yeah we are seeing quite a few new units where we're seeing new development.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, so yeah, it's a challenge and, and the problem is it's not always appropriate and every every location, there are sites specific circumstances that dictate.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, which might be the most appropriate and- and I understand it's a very contentious issue, I mean I think, there's we hear quite a bit from the community that cash in lieu is bad because people are buying out of the developers are buying out of their affordable housing. Obligation.

G

Cob jay sugnet: when, in fact,, you know they're paying quite a bit. I mean it's increased significantly since 20,000 or 2000 from 60,000 to 2000. It was over 120,000. So there it's they're, paying a significant sum of money and that money is being used. For.

G

Cob jay sugnet: for us to be able to leverage so theoretically,. We can get more units with the cash than if we.

G

Cob jay sugnet: just simply require the developer, to fight on site,, so I would say: housing human services is kind of torn. We don't have a firm policy.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but it depends on the circumstances,, but there are benefits and policy like you, guys, have to deal with on a daily basis, of making a choice.

G

Cob jay sugnet: anything else, that.

G

Cob jay sugnet:. You want to hear sarah.

H

Pb sarah silver: wanted to hear and answer I mean,. I think that there are pros and cons are there,. There are justifications for both and I,, but I also know that older has done a really good job of making sure that there is affordable, apparently affordable housing throughout the city.

H

Pb sarah silver:, and that means that we have neighborhoods that are more more economically diverse than than many small towns,. So I just was curious. What the weather the weather department had a preference or not.

G

Cob jay sugnet: so., cob, jay sugnet:, all right, I'll, keep going.

G

cob jay sugnet:, I'm almost done,. I promise so just to give you a sampling. Like I said, you know, planning board doesn't always see all the projects that were, we are able to create affordable housing. Lot of that is done through funding,, but just to give you a sample.

G

Cob jay sugnet: and then the last slide, which I thought might be helpful, just because.

G

Cob jay sugnet:. I know this is something you you deal with on a regular basis, so, as you know, city policy is to hold our affordable housing authority and our affordable housing partners to the same high standard that we hold market rate developers, and I think what this shows is just that..

G

Cob jay sugnet:, affordable projects are often held to a much higher standard,, so you can see, in terms of the number of public meetings that have been required for this sort of granted. It's a very select.

G

Cob jay sugnet: group of projects,, but in terms of the number of meetings that are required,, the changes that are made to address concerns, and also the additional community benefit beyond providing typically hundred percent permanently affordable.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, so I just wanted to leave you with that and turn things over to laura unless they're at some questions for me.

G

Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: yeah, another question.

K

Pb john gerstle: yeah. pb john gerstle:, thanks jay for this and, by the way,. Thanks for your presentation to the east, boulder planning, efforts, also,, that was just a couple days ago on the same topic,, but I was wondering,. Can you describe what the city is doing with respect to maintaining.

K

Pb john gerstle:, before affordability in the town separately from these efforts,, the permanently affordable efforts,, and by that I mean considering.

K

Pb john gerstle: for example, tax changes or taxes on vacant. You know second, second building second homes and things like that that could have an impact on the market rates of real estate. That could be a benefit to various folks, also.

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Cob jay sugnet: john, I mean that's a really good point and our honestly, a big focus for us is that currently affordable.

G

Cob jay sugnet:: it's really difficult to move the market,, but there are things that we can do. So, like you, mentioned.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, you know,. We do provide down payment assistance for middle income homebuyers, so that can help people get into a home.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, we have.

G

cob jay sugnet:. We updated the accessory dwelling unit regulations, so that was a significant recent initiative, and that was to help existing homeowners, who may be middle income.

G

Cob jay sugnet: to try to provide an additional resource or income source so,, because what we've heard is a lot of existing homeowners are being priced out of the market.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but yeah it's a big challenge, and you know you you're one suggestion of well,: can we tax property,? You know second properties at a higher rate,, so we have explored,. You know issues like that.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, it is extremely challenging and I think the legal counsel that we received from the city attorney's office was that's, you know it's, it would not pass muster with not withstand legal challenge..

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but we're always open to new ideas,, particularly in ethical talk about this more.

G

Cob jay sugnet: next month,, joan is.

G

cob jay sugnet:. How do we crack this nut of middle income? Because, right now it's really about housing or ownership right, because rentals middle income, rentals are currently affordable.

G

Cob jay sugnet: php tried to provide rentals that middle income middle income levels,. They will be competing with the market.

G

Cob jay sugnet:. So what we're talking about is when people are ready to move from renting to that that first home purchase. That's where they're really challenged and that's when a lot of our community members move out to the surrounding suburbs.

G

Cob jay sugnet: so anyway I'll just leave it at that,. I mean, I think it's it's definitely worth more conversation,, but our our focus to a large extent, is on the 02 hundred and 20% am I.

K

Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: can I. pb john gerstle:. Can I just follow up quickly on that.

K

Pb john gerstle:, that is, I'm wondering if you can just describe very briefly what the constraints that the city faces on on other matters, behind.

K

Pb john gerstle: beside the permanently affordable and, for example, rent control,, I understand, is living,. You know our options are limited at the state level, but uh what other options, there may be available to to address these issues besides the permanently affordable housing approaches that we're taking.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, you know, I would say the city experimented extensively.

G

Cob jay sugnet: between the 1970s and the late 1990s.

G

Cob jay sugnet: different programs to limit the size of future helps programs to you know: purchase middle income homes to you, know, provide a downpayment assistance, grant.

G

Cob jay sugnet: and make those homes permanently affordable. Some of those were successful, others were not, and the city really in 2000 made the conscious choice to really focus on the deed restriction. The covenant approach to ensuring permanent affordability.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, recognizing that you know a lot of home prices, it was older, was not going to be able to control the market market rate housing in boulder.

G

Cob jay sugnet: that said, you know,. There are tools, land use tools, structuring your zoning code.

G

Cob jay sugnet: to promote more of a diversity of housing and to meet. I think that's where the focus should be.

G

Cob jay sugnet: provided providing a variety for people to choose from, they may not be particularly new. Construction may not be affordable,, but a duplex triplex. Four plex is inherently significantly more affordable than a single family. 8000 square foot, home.

G

Cob jay sugnet: so, to me, I mean that's where I would focus more of her energy.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but that's my thing.

I

Pb, jorge boone: okay, the,, thank you for this is really helpful.

I

Pb, jorge boone:, the initial spike that you put up with.

I

Pb,, jorge boone: housing prices and escalating long with median income staying a lot more flat than the housing prices. Can you guys spent a lot of time thinking about that,? What do you think are the major contributors that are creating that paradigm in boulder.

G

Cob jay sugnet:. I think it's it's national. I don't think this is this, isn't unique to boulder.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, so I think the west coast, east coast.

G

Cob jay sugnet: the mountain towns of colorado.

G

Cob jay sugnet: they have been experiencing this for the past 30 years.

G

Cob jay sugnet: older, is slightly behind,, but it has to do,. Frankly, has to do with it's a desirable place to live.

G

Cob jay sugnet: and,, and I don't think it's again. It's just it's not unique to boulder.

G

Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, okay., cob, jay, sugnet: and,, and, let me just add, I mean when we had the housing conversation housing boulder back in 2015. You know the recognition was affordable. Housing is a challenge for boulder.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, there are no silver bullets,. There has to be a very comprehensive approach: lots of different tools,. There is a toolbox of housing options that we crafted back in 2015 that had about 40 different things that we could be pursuing.

G

Cob jay sugnet: and it's everything from raising additional funding sources to tweaking our zoning code.

G

Cob jay sugnet: and you know those do come up and we have been exploring those and implementing those as time and resources,, but none of them are going to solve the problem.

L

Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. Thank you lisa and john.

K

Pb john gerstle:, hey just real quickly.

K

pb john gerstle:, one of the things that you know as politically a hot potato, but be interesting to get your thoughts on is the bedrooms for people, I'm infant and what impact that might have on on the housing picture in boulder, both short and long term..

G

Cob jay, sugnet: yeah and it's interesting occupancy is always been. You know hot button issue in boulder and you know, going back to the 2015 housing housing, boulder effort.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, you know,, one of our early wins, was to allow seniors to exceed the current occupancy. So the whole idea was, you know: how do we allow golden girls to live in boulder and you know now be violating the law,, and you know we went to counsel and thinking that this was a no brainer.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, and you know we even made the case that you know we don't anticipate grandmas out in the front yard, doing kickstands.

G

Cob jay sugnet: people came out in droves,. There was so much opposition to that one concept that council didn't even move it to second reading,: they didn't. We didn't even hear from staff in terms of what the proposal was. They just shut it down. Immediately.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, so I think it's a challenge,. I think time it's made it been changing. I think council recognizes that the next ballot measure has a very good chance of passing.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but I think it's also very difficult to quantify.

G

Cob jay sugnet: to say exactly how many people are going to take advantage of it.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, I you know household size, has been declining for decades generations, so you know, providing more opportunities for people to live. Together,. I personally, I think, is, is a great idea not trying to define what family is should be. That should be front and foremost in our minds.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, but other than that, I mean staff, will do what council directs and will implement, whatever their desires. That.

K

Pb john gerstle: is why I understand that,, but I'm just wondering if there's any sort of a quantification of of impact that has been done by now, no.

K

Pb john gerstle: okay, thank you.

G

Cob jay sugnet: very. How would you be so many assumptions associated with that that I'm not sure how meaningful, it would be.

L

Thank you. pb, david ensign, --, he/him: lisa. You had a question.

O

Pb, lisa smith: yeah, so thank you jay. I was just looking at the dashboard and.

O

Pb, lisa smith: kind of had some questions off of that that I think you've already touched on in terms of both declining sizes of household and also the kinds of.

O

Pb, lisa smith: housing you provide so I'm looking at the portion over on the right that talks about number of affordable homes by housing type and I was just struck again.

O

Pb, lisa smith: by how many are multifamily and condos the vast vast majority.

O

Pb, lisa, smith: and then,. How very few are things like single family, townhomes, duplexes for plexus and so on,, and I think.

O

Pb, lisa smith:. I know that this is something I've certainly seen. I don't know what your data shows I'd be curious to hear from you,. If you have this data on people,, accepting affordable, housing.

O

Pb, lisa smith: and where they go next, but just anecdotally, I certainly know a lot of people who ended up buying in lafayette or longmont or eerie. You know who initially were in, maybe even a homeowner situation. You know where they owned something.

L

Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. Something happened to the audio.

O

Pb, lisa smith:. Can you not hear me david. pb, david ensign, -- he/him:? Oh no. I can. pb, lisa smith:. Can everyone hear me okay,? It might have been.

A

Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: cut out,, but I think.

O

Pb, lisa smith: um yeah, so I just love to hear more about that. We're going to be doing a deep dive on middle income, housing, soon.

O

Pb, lisa smith: and I just be curious to know kind of if you have any more data or information on kind of how the sorts of affordable housing that we offer.

O

Pb, lisa smith: affects the kinds of population that we're able to serve, and also,, who then transitions out of the city,. If at some point that stopped serving them.

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Cob jay sugnet: yeah. I can share, we recently did.

G

Cob jay sugnet: a survey of homeowners in the affordable homeownership program, so it and we do it.

G

Cob jay sugnet:: well, we've done it twice in the past 10 years and we ask general questions. About.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, you know how satisfied, are you, with your purchase,. Are you glad you made the purchase? What did you expect? What didn't you expect? Do you plan to stay in boulder.

G

Cob jay sugnet: in you know, in a paints actually fairly positive picture. You know a lot of people that are in the housing are happy with the housing,. You know if you aren't.

G

Cob jay sugnet:, and you know that might give you a little bit of sense of what people's intentions are. But I'd say the vast majority have no intention of leaving typically once they're in an affordable home. I think that's very different. If you're in a market rate.

G

Cob jay sugnet: home and your choices are limited, based on the total cost,. Then those outlying communities start looking a little much more attractive, right,. So you, you can get.

G

Cob jay sugnet: more square footage. You can get a slightly larger yard, and you know it's worth the trade off of driving to those places.

G

Cob jay sugnet: so.

O

Pb, lisa smith:, sorry to interrupt you do,, but I'll make I'll make a quick recommendation,, which is- and it's anecdotal. I cannot prove a darn thing um,, but I would recommend doing exit interviews.

O

Pb, lisa smith:, so not not just like the people who are currently in it,. But if, if budget will allow staff time will allow.

O

Pb, lisa smith: when people transition out ask them why they're transitioning out and when they're going,, because I can think of five people or couples right off the top of my head right. Now.

O

Pb, lisa smith:, who I know, left affordable housing and left the city,, which again anecdotal. I can't tell you how significant that is or isn't, and you have other data.

O

Pb, lisa smith:, but I'd be interested to hear when people sell those units. Where do they go,, you know, as opposed to just overall within the entire system, I'm because we're losing young people. I think it's what's happening.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, so I'm gonna ask us to go ahead and.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: move forward because I'm laura actually is with us for just one more hour and has an eight o'clock.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, stopping point so that'll give laura a chance to be with us for the next hour and then even,. Thank you for staying. If we go beyond that and, and then we can also loop back with additional discussion at the end, of course,. So thank you.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I assume that's what he wanted to go next. Day.

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Cob jay sugnet:, yep, perfect, perfect time., pb, david ensign, --, he/him: thanks, and thank you laura.

N

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: yeah hi good evening nice to see you all, this evening. I am laura shine. I work for boulder housing partners as our real estate, director and swallow, is here with me this evening. He's one of our senior project managers.

N

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: really excited to be here when I'm not asking you for something. So thanks for having us and look forward to the conversation so as with jay, please feel free to.

N

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: ask questions as we go by slide. Some of them are kind of bundled, so I might make more sense to wait till we get through a couple and then ask some questions on a specific topic.

N

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, but I'm going to go ahead and share my screen now and we'll get going.

J

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: did that chair, yes, good.

N

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, perfect alright., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: so., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: just to set the stage of who we are,. So we are a partner with the city,, but we have a separate governance,. We are chartered by the state, we are created in 1966. We are the housing authority in the city of boulder.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, we do have our board,, we have a nine member board and they are appointed by the mayor and city. Council.-.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. So that's how we're structured,. We have an executive director and his name is jeremy durham. He would have been here tonight.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: when he sends us three grants,, but he had some other obligations. Our mission of you've heard me talk about this in the past,, but it is to provide quality,, affordable homes and foster thriving builder communities.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: in a nutshell, we own in perpetuity we manage and we develop affordable housing in the city of boulder.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and the pictures that you see all these smiling faces show the diversity, folks that we are serving so there's seniors. There's families with kids, there's.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: individuals with disabilities, so it's we're really hitting a wide swath of folks here in the city, we do have,, as I mentioned just a little bit ago, and answered your question.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I think the latest update,, as of today,, was 1623 units in the city,. We also manage administer a housing choice, voucher program which extends the reach of the federal government with a.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: subsidy, so individually qualifies for affordable housing receives a voucher and they take that into the private sector to use that voucher.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: and then they pay a portion of their income for rent and then the balance is paid by the value on that voucher. So of that, we have 1352 vouchers,, and so that's another mechanism by which we are getting affordability into the community and tapping into that private sector. Market.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: the next slide here, just a bit about who we serve so again. I I've heard the questions about middle income, and I promise actually,. I do have some slides about getting there here in a minute.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, but predominantly we are serving folks who are very, very low income,. So you can see some of these thresholds median income for folks living in boulder housing partners properties is $15,684. It's not alive.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you see some of those thresholds at the bottom,, but 30% of area. Median income is for one person is 24,000 ish and family of 430 4530.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and again,. You can see that we've got predominance. Families with children, seniors people with disabilities.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:- I always giggle about this other, but it's it's really. We have some market rate units that we have in the portfolio,, not many,, but a few, and those we don't collect data on. So these would be the folks that are living with us that are in a mercury property.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: and what we do, though, is,. As you can see what these very low median incomes is really diving deep into the affordability range so trying to really get at that lowest of the low income need in the in the in boulder..

N

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: so,, moving on here.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and any questions about any of this,. I think a lot of this we've talked about before when we present.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I can't see everybody,. So if there's a question,, please speak.

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Pb,, jorge boone: have a question. pb,, jorge boone: yeah, just don't understand the market rate,, because I wasn't aware that you had market rate in your portfolio. How does that work? And why does that? Exist.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah, so it exists because it was really underwriting public housing when we actually had public housing in our portfolio,. So we built the bridge, walk apartments and then it a's- and that was because we had.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: 300 units of public housing that was limited and that our ability, to.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: take rant on those units, because it was income restricted,. So you not only income restricted, but rent was based on your incomes,. You would pay 30% of your income for rent.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, that was if your median income is $15,600, your round was very low, and it wasn't enough to support the operations of our public housing portfolio,. So we built our bridge walk apartments to flow cash, basically to underwrite the public housing. So that's where that came.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: and we have since divested of that public housing and move them into a tax credit program, so we're no longer losing a ton of money on the public housing portfolio. Now a tax credit.

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Pb, jorge boone:, so is that market rate sorry just to follow up so that market rate housing a an opportunity for to be ultimately put into an affordable housing program permanently affordable, housing.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: and I would say, potentially it's something that we assess on a regular basis, and we do use it to leverage for other tools,, though, within the organization so.,.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: when we bought the tantra, for example, when we bought a tantra like apartments in 2017.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. We were able to refinance the bridgewater apartments and pull equity out of that property, so that we can afford to buy the tantra like apartments. So it's a tool that we utilize.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and a number of ways,. It also is collateral for our line of credit that we utilize to be able to be nimble in the real estate market when we want to go, compete for apartments or is, and that can be x.

A

Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: and we're I'll go ahead and watch for him and call on people,. So you don't have to worry about that.

N

Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. You want to ask something john. Before we go on.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, oh you're, not muted, you're, unmuted.,.

K

Pb john gerstle:. Oh, do these numbers include the folks who are getting vouchers.

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Pb john gerstle: and staying. pb john gerstle: in market rate apartments with them.

N

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and that's a great question. No, these numbers only include the folks that have a voucher that are living in a php unit. So that's the caveat up there and read.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so housing choice, voucher residents living,, so we have some vouchers that are in.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: properties that we own so, for example, at 30 pearl. We have.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: 30 vouchers that we have project based at that property,, so that we can have people with permanent exiting homelessness that are permanent, supportive housing, units.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. We also have another 20 units that are for individuals with developmental intellectual and developmental disabilities. So there's a bit of overlap when we're trying to really serve a special needs. Population.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: so that that would include data here that data is included in this,, but not strictly. The housing choice.

C

Pb john gerstle: thank you.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: other questions, for I. pb,, david ensign, -- he/him:, think we're good to go. On., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, okay,, great., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, so there's a number of strategies that we employ. I think some of the questions we've already heard this evening really sort of speak to some of this, and I can help you see how we utilize both sides of that cash in lieu versus on site.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: discussion, so to speak, so., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:. These are the strategies that we employ a new construction and that's when you see us most frequently ready, come and ask you for permission to build something: new. That's 100%, affordable.,.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: acquisition, that's what jay was talking about in terms of preservation, so buying apartment complexes in the city,, so that we can spread out affordability, seamlessly and sort of.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know how to blend in with the rest of the community,. We do land bank land as a premium here in boulder,, as we know,. So when we see opportunity to have say control will in a location, that we think would be really good for affordable in the future,. We will go and land bank something.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, we do, as I mentioned,, we have a huge portfolio,, and so we are good stewards of our assets,, and so we do invest in our existing portfolio frequently,, and so we renovate and really make sure that again you can't tell the difference between our properties and other properties in the community.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and then we partner, you saw us in front of you last week, partnered with the diagonal plaza.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: team,, and so you know, there are opportunities for us to come in and do an onsite affordable when a private developer wants to do that on site,, affordable and thinks it's the right thing for the community now,. When we go to acquire.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. You know that is a place where the city we've helped us with equity, to.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: get something under contract potentially so that would be a place where cash in lieu of that came into the city would be really helpful..

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: similarly, in new construction, if we're trying to as jay mentioned, really get our.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: area median incomes low and provide provide a blend of affordability. Ranges,. Then you know, having some 30 4050 60% am, I ranges is really important,, but that sent as we'll see in a minute when I get to some of the numbers will help us get into those deeper affordability, places.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: questions on this or.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: anything before.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. We do so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: all right, great., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: okay,. So this is the main: the low income, housing tax credit I'm going to start and I'm going to drown out just for a second, though.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: when you build affordable, housing, it says.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: basics,, one on one, that affordable housing costs x to bill,, which is this and then,. If you can see me, it's the incomes that we can charge here and they don't support enough.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: money to be able to pay for the affordable housing,. So what you end up with is this proverbial gap.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and so that gap,, especially in boulder, can be quite large and so you're, looking always for sources of equity to come in and help you build and then be able to have the rents low enough that you meet the affordable limits for having the covenant data, restricted, property, so.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: in the mid 80s, I just was talking about the public housing program and bhp is largely divested of our public housing,, but that is.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, something that maybe you've heard about over the past right. It's the largely failed.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: exercise by the federal government to directly build affordable housing and then have those managed by local housing. Authorities.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so that was generally a failure and has was pretty obsolete because there's no way to reinvest in those properties,, and so they stopped really doing any sort of public housing..

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: and created the low income housing tax credit program in the mid 80s, so that they could allow developers to tap into private sector equity dollars to help build affordable, housing.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, it's largely been very successful and and it's really created a lot of affordable product in the country and then in our city,. So we own a quite a bit of affordable housing. That's been developed through the low income, housing tax, credit, program.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I'm trying to be really careful with my language and not use too many acronyms, but you'll hear this. References like tackle here is just the tax credit program.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: that has the low income, housing tax credit program and it's a federal incentive program, basically offering $1 for dollar tax credit against an investor's federal tax liability, there's also a state tax credit and so there's a state tax. That.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, if you have an investor, has a state tax liability, there's also a state tax credit that can help with that pricing fluctuates it's not $1 for dollar, as it's.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: advertised, but depending on what the needs are of a certain investor, what size type the size or the location,, the amenities,, the population being served all, will dictate sort of where you land, on..

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: tax credit, so I'm going to bundle a couple sides into this whole tax credit discussion, and then I can,. I think that might be better than can take questions at the end of that.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:- and this is the palo park neighborhood- that we built with a low income plus 4% plus a low, and I kept.

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David adamson: doing right, now.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: was there a question.

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Pb sarah silver: david. pb, sarah silver:, you need to meet yourself.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, will try to mute.

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laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: okay.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so this is how it works and lots of arrows and things here,. But I wanted to point out that,, first and foremost,. This is,, you know enabled by federal legislation and the tax code.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, section 42 you'll, hear it referenced as occasionally so federal government authorizes this and they say to a state,. You get x number based on your population of tax credits.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. They then give those tax credits to a state, housing and finance authority in colorado, that is,, the colorado, housing and finance authority you'll hear it referenced as chafee. Quite a bit.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder, housing, partners:, so chaff, is distributes the tax credits over here we have a developer, and this is inside bhp in here,. So we have a project that we want to finance.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: we put in an application,, we put together a whole bunch of information threshold criteria for java,. We submit a proposal to java.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, they evaluate that they say yes, that looks great and then they give bhp the developer, the tax credits, I like to think of it as monopoly money to go and sell.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: so then,. At that point we go and we pitch our project to investors.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and those investors say yeah. We think that's worth 90 cents on the dollar. Somebody might say: 88 somebody might say 91. We then they could deal with an investor who's going to be our partner in this deal.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: for a period of about 15 years, so that money then flows into the deal.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: we're also at that point, able to seek debt so we'll go and get a loan,, and so we put together the equity from the investor debt from a lender.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and then typically, we also have still a gap. So, unfortunately,, even with all of these resources, we're still going to need.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, local support,, and so this is where grant money will come in from the city could be from the cash in lieu program kind of thing, there's also other sources state has some.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: grant financing for affordable housing,, as does the county through there, where they cause program. So there's other sources other than the city,. But generally the city is our good partner in that last little bit of financing.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and then, of course,, you know,. We have our people that come in and rent and that income helps support paying off the debt on a monthly basis.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: okay,, so that's how it works.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: very simplified, of course,. There are also different values of tax credits and so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: this first one here is the most competitive and the hardest again, and also the most valuable,. So this is based on a presumed $400,000 total development costs for one unit.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so the 9% tax credit is highly competitive chaff,. I usually get able to worried about 25% of applications of 100% each year.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: and you can see why it's so competitive people want that $280,000 per year per unit,, which is sometimes valued in like 70% range of total development, cost.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: jumping over here to non competitive tax credits,. This is the 4% tax credit,, so this is worth less,, but still quite a bit of money hundred and $20,000 or so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: it's non competitive, but it's not like they give them out. Just no problem. Here,, you go, you still have to meet threshold items and you still have to.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: pair this with a form of debt called a private activity bond,, which actually is a very scarce resource that we do have to compete for. So, while this is.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: considered non competitive, there's there's some limiters on the 4% as well, and then here in the middle,, and this is a tool that we as boulder housing partners, have utilized quite a bit in the past.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: few years as the 4% paired with a state tax credit, so state of colorado. Seven years, ago, created a state housing tax credit, another forum, religious of a gap, financing.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: chakra, has asked to have that paired with the 4%, so we compete for that, and you get into this,. You know $220,000 range or you know, 50, to 60% of your total development costs being covered by this tax credit so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. All of this is to say,. You know, there's different methodologies to get there. It's all relatively competitive,, but you can see what a great source of equity, it is for these projects.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: so competing for tax credits,. As I mentioned, it's some are truly competitive, 4% test eight and 9%. The phone.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: but,, and these are the types of care qualities that that traffic is looking for, to be able to award these tax credits,. So I want to make sure that the project is in a good location, close to schools and transportation and commercial notes for grocery shopping, that type of thing.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. They want a market study to demonstrate, need in your community. The housing has to look nice and be have a quality standard.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, your tenant populations are interested on who you're serving and are you really meeting the needs of your community.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: energy efficiency, this one's very much a slam, dunk generally folder has such a great energy code that you know just by meeting. Our energy cove are surpassing most most state, most other applications,, given how.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: how strict our energy code is,, which is fantastic for future sustainability in the city.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and then, this big one here, readiness to proceed,- and I want to talk about that for a minute in the past- there's been some.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: healthy tension between the city of boulder, I think and chat regarding which comes first chicken or the egg. You know,, do you go finance it, or do you get your permissions to build.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, what jeff is saying and what boulder housing partners is adhering to is we're going to take entitled projects forward to chatting so we're going to work with our city first and make sure that city wants it to get built and then we'll take it to chance to get it. Financed.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: now, with that said, I'm going to go on to this next slide real quick,. This is not really intended to be legible, readable.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, but this is our city entitlement process,, and this is why you usually see me sitting up here next to somebody like bill holiday,, who knows this process inside it out,, because it takes an incredible amount. Of.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: sophistication and money and time to to to get through this process and what we're dedicated to doing is getting through this process to a point that we have permission to build and then we're going to go and apply. To.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: the risk there, of course, is that you know it's money out of pocket,. This is hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fees and consultant time to do this.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and that that's all very important to us, so that when we go back to jaffa and have our application,, we can tell them that we are ready to go forward and we have a viable product..

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so I think that's important. It might be a little bit of a shift of what you've heard in the past from us,, and this is just something I wanted to highlight.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and so sorry going down here any questions there. I did want to pause for a second, and then we can go into a sample.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and numbers for a deal.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, yeah I'll, just ask very quick and then john. The these must. These applications have must be pretty large. I mean.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: with all those kind of criteria, so that that would be.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, hundreds and thousands of pages 10 generally projects,. I can just imagine how much goes into it.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I mean yeah, so they used to be pages and trees and now fortunately it's all electronic,, but this is the middle process- is very extensive,. It takes.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, probably six months to pull in together and that's after we've done our due diligence, to make sure that we think we have a project. That's going to be.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: good for the city and four and chaplin's going to be able to support it. So yeah, it's it's comprehensive, to say the least.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, you can be thankful, we don't have you all that john.

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Pb john gerstle: yeah. Thank you yeah. I think you characterize the the tension characteristic quite well between asking planning board to give the go ahead and then getting the financing.

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Pb john gerstle: for various projects. So, to what degree can changes be made after the application for financing with the housing finance authority has been submitted or or even approved, um.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah, so I mean there. Therein lies the rub right. So that's why we would like to get through say, review approval,, so that we know that we can build what we are telling chapo we.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: say we can build right so so yeah that once we have submitted to them, there's.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, I think, probably some special considerations that could be done with that,, but they typically are going to hold you to what you have said in an application. If it's a unit here,, maybe one unit or two units, or something maybe that would be.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: a unit count something or a unit mix,. You know less three bedrooms and more two bedrooms, or vice versa,, depending on market conditions..

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, but generally once you submit, they want to make sure you hold to that that program that you said you're going to do,, which again is why I want to you, know kind of commit here that we're working to make sure that you all are happy first and then we'll go and source, the funds for it.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: right any more questions on this.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, woman.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: numbers so., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, more basics, here,. This is not exactly as complicated as these performance look,, but they it's definitely gives you a sense of what we're doing here,. So this is a 50 unit, project, hypothetical 50 unit, project.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: that is being financed without tax credits,, but with affordable rents and so with affordable rents,. You could get a dead amount of $5.5 million.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. Maybe you could get some outside grants of a million dollars,, but your costs are down here,. Are you know you still have a land cost,. You have your construction, hard cost.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you have a developer fee which most people work for have to pay for for their time. Soft costs,, given all the entitlement work, I just shared you and legal fees like kind of go into doing a development. There's soft costs, involved.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, so all of that, without any big source of equity, is creating. This gap that I was describing earlier have $12.6 million okay, so fast forward to the next slide. Here is a deal with tax credits over on the right so.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: my computer,, but so you've got dead of this 5,000,005.5 million. As we discussed here comes your tax credit equity on 50 units of $11, million.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners:, I've renamed our grant source here,, but now we've got the city of boulder coming in with $1.9 million on the 50 units,, maybe getting some worthy cause funds here, 700,000.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: for this total here and then your sources are the same. So you've got land hard construction costs, you've got a developer fee, and you find yourself costs.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so you can see just again how valuable these tax credits really are and how you know, quite frankly, a deal would not be able to move forward if you were trying to source that kind of actually with an affordable, rent.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and so, this next slide.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: is basically showing you how density and scaling up in the affordable world is. It does matter so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: from from my point of view, I you know, I do the same amount of work for 50 units, as we do for 60 units, so it's efficient if we can get that extra 10 units in there, but from a financing perspective, it's also very efficient so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, as you can see here, you've got your debt come across for your 15 minutes,. This is all the same as what we just looked at.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and when you add 60 units and digital 10 units in your amount of credit, goes up. Your state tax credit tax credits, here.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, your city, investment goes down so you're getting 10 more units,, but your city investment has gone down. Your outside grant sources have gone down, and your total is here to still build.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know, with your sources down here,, but you get 10 more units,. So you know this tax credit really flexes for the project and allows a community to get more.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: or units for less money, so., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:- I just am providing this you know density is always can be a touchy subject,, especially in some neighborhoods, where we go to build. This is why.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: when we go forward with projects, we think it's important to.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: look at what what is available through the current zoning and if we are allowed to build 60 units per se,, then we're going to try and build a 60 units and do a lot of horse trading for oh,. Maybe we'll just do a few last. It's an important mechanism for us to continue to have.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know just financial efficient efficiency as well as moving the dial on affordable product in a city.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, like some some georgie yeah.

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Pb,, jorge boone: yeah, just a question on nomenclature.

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Pb,, jorge boone: yeah, so try to understand the 50 to 60 project difference, get a difference,. Are you talking about density,? Are you talking about the scale of the project,, because to me those are two different things.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and yeah, it's a great question,. I think this is really.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: talking about this, if, if our opportunity is to build 50 units,, but we have the opportunity to get 60 more or 10 more in there.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I didn't take into zoning considerations in town,. We have the permission to build the 10,. Then we would want to build the 10 so, for example,. If I had a 50 property, where I was going to get.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: build 50., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and the neighbors are happy,, but if I build 60., laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: my finances better, you know there's some of that healthy tension in the community, that we talked about. So I don't know if that answers your question,. This is really just saying it's more efficient to build more units with this product, we would.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: also point out the fact that the land cost is the same in both kind of indicates that it's against the thing right, because you're dealing with the same amount of land, but more units on that land right. So that means it's primarily density, base.

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Pb,, jorge boone:, but I don't read it well,. I guess that's that's the question because I see the land thing,, which is a density issue,. But then I'm trying to understand the tax credits.

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Pb,, jorge boone:, and in what we're talking about is that's what I'm trying to understand the scale of the project or density,, because those are those are. Those are two different, distinct things. I'm just trying to understand. I get your point on on land david,, but I guess that's.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I see. pb, jorge boone:, a little confused. pb, david ensign, -- he/him: like the way you're saying why,. Why does that give you so much bang, for your buck with the light tech, and you know, just.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: guess I guess here we're just trying to say if.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: in really I mean generally I'll talk about hate,. I tried to avoid hate, tonight, but.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know,, so if you're building, let's say you have a finite piece of land of land costs is fixed. If I build three stories at 50 and as, and I can add an extra story on for another 10 units, it's I'm going to get.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know more tax credits right, so that's helping the project because, instead of getting the 11 million, I'm getting 13.2 million because it's by unit.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and then the so that would be a density good. I mean, I think, that's answering your question regarding density and that's the benefit there is that you're getting those additional tax credits in the same location with martinez, yeah.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: that answer.

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Pb,, jorge boone: yeah, it's nuanced because.

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Pb,, jorge boone: you're, assuming you're, assuming that you were picking a project, where a land is fixed and that's,. The only way to achieve scale right is that that kind of what you're, saying.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: it is but and in boulder land generally is fixed. I mean.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: yeah, if you're, if you're looking at the site and deciding,, you know how many units, you can get on there right, that's.

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Pb, jorge boone: yeah. That is my question. I'm just trying to understand how our talking to you.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: yeah, so this and understand to this is a very I'm trying to keep it pretty simple, but yeah be happy. To.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, so john go ahead. I'm sorry. pb john gerstle: yeah just to pursue this question that further. When you talk about units and this example here,, are you being pushed towards lots of small one bedroom units, as opposed to fewer three bedroom units or or some standard unit, that you're talking about.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so this is just general units. I think it's a good question,. We are going to get into how we make those decisions here in a moment,. So if you can wait a second weekend get into how we come up with unit configurations and unit mixes for property, but.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:- this is a this is generic and it would assume it's all. One bedrooms are all two bedrooms or something like that.

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Pb john gerstle: so it's, not that this financing is pushing you towards certain units. It's other considerations that that you make that decision. On.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so we do not make our decisions on unit mcs based on financing. We make base it on market data, so.

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Pb john gerstle: thanks.

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pb, david ensign, -- he/him: right. Let's see how that works.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, and so just the last quick thing. Here.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. This is acquisitions of existing apartments. So one thing I did want to mention for bhp, so on these deals.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. We know that one that wasn't quite so complicated, but that so 1.2 this is without texture, so developer fees, 1.2 million here the tax credit program actually requires a developer, to take a taxi developer fee. So for builder housing partners, we.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: put that into a development equity fund. I call that very lovingly my war chest,, and so that is my that we then deploy to go and.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: acquire so that money gets redeployed back into the community to buy or develop or buy land or something so so that's money that is recycled back into mission,, and so this is an example. Of.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know where you have a tax credit here to help you build this 30. You know this new construction projects here in an acquisition.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: when you're trying to compete in the builder market. You don't have time to go and do the long tax credit project.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: process to get a tax credit allocation,, so you have to finance this in some manner,. So this is when you're talking about the.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: book,. What do we do at bridgewater or market rate property,? You know that option. We refinance that to help you buy tantra. We take the money that we set aside from developer fee and use those funds again to finance acquisitions and the portfolio.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: questions, here.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I'm now going to turn this over to em swallow and he's gonna.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: most recently, working on our 30 personal development and is very familiar with our visa process and then also decision making on how we are.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: allocating units and new development.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: thanks, laura nice to see everyone thanks for thanks for having us.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: the next couple slides we pulled together looking at just some some data from recent market studies that bhp has done so, just as a little background. Every.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: every project, every community we build, we do a pretty in depth market study. We hire an outside analyst, who basically looks at what is the the demand in the in the community and then makes recommendations on unit mix. So that's both unit size, as well as affordability, levels.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: to us,, so that we know you know, are we're kind of meeting demand, where it is so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: the slide you're seeing here,. I think this is from our canopy projects,, so this market study was a few years ago,, but I thought it was interesting because it had kind of a look ahead.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and what you're really seeing here is boulder. You know: renter households, we're seeing upwards of 70% of our renter households are one and two person households.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: and you can really see you know. Looking from 2017 forward, there was not.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: really any expected change in that composition,. So you can see, you know,. The largest increase was less projected to be less than 1%. That's in the one person household, but really across the board.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know the demographics, of the region are staying about the same where we're heavily skewed towards smaller households for our rental household. So that has definitely, I think, stayed true. As we've seen more recent data that we've looked at so laura, you can hop to the next slide.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: this. This data is pulled from a more recent market study,, and so this basically takes that to a more nuanced level,. So this is looking builder.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: renter households,, who would qualify for bhp, affordable housing. So again, that's at 60% of area, median income and below.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and what you'll see here,, which is you know, pretty consistent with overall boulder rental data, is that you know about 70% little over 70% of our households that qualify for affordable housing or one and two person household so..

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. That is really a demand that we've seen be consistent over the past couple years.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know, I think, looking down at the 345 person household, those are still significant numbers of people. It's certainly something we want to be serving but, overall,. The highest demand that we've seen is really in the one and 2% households. There see maybe question.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: yeah. I have a question: I'm. pb sarah silver: sorry, david,. I have a question,, so I was just looking at rental of statistics. Today.

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Pb sarah silver: and 65% of boulder renters are 23 or younger, and I and some portion of some large portion of that must be students. And if I'm not.

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Pb sarah silver: mistaken students are not eligible correct.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yep, that's it that's a great question and one we.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: is always a little bit of a struggle in boulder, so in all our market studies, they. This excludes the student population,, so I would I would qualify that that it's you know, to the best of the market analysts ability to do that. It's certainly nuanced but.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: this data,, you know, I would say, is high level of confidence that this excludes student renters from this data.

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Pb sarah silver: okay, so,, then what is the other statistic was that something like 22% of renters are millennium millennials and 5% are boomers.

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Pb sarah silver:, which in this talk probably does not total 100%. So I apologize for not knowing what the last percentages, but um so.

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Pb, sarah silver:: what is this break,? What is this breakdown into in terms of.

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Pb sarah silver: age- I mean- I don't know if you can even do age has a breakdown. I'm just really curious about that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah, that's it that's a great question. You know. I don't know that off the top of my head I.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: would just getting a market study update for our mount cavalry senior housing projects,. So I could certainly follow up with you on that information.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, you know my guess, is, as you know,. We would see across basically colorado in the region. It's you know it's a growing percentage of senior renters. So I'm sure it's small, but growing percent in this number would be my guess,, but that is purely I guess.

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Pb sarah silver:, I'm sorry, did a can. I follow one more question.

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pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, you're, good. pb, sarah silver:, so I just want to, and I want to understand these numbers. These numbers reflect.

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Pb sarah silver: eligible people who are eligible for permanently affordable housing,, which is 60% or less of, am I.

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Pb sarah silver: okay,, so it doesn't, it does not tell us much or we shouldn't imagine that it's telling us something about a moderate, high, moderate and missing missing middle needs it's,, but it is telling us very specifically about low and moderate housing needs. Or.

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Pb sarah silver:, who might be eligible for this kind of housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: so for this slide yes, the previous slide, that was actually all boulder renting household. So that would be more of that, like kind of all encompassing number here in terms of household data, okay.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, so similar it'd be slightly different, but it's actually fairly consistent between the two.

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Pb sarah silver: so,, but that, first, that first graph, I'm so sorry that first graph is, does not exclude students. People under it that does not exclude this graph does not exclude students,. This is totality of this,. The population and.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:- this would be, this would be all eligible renter, so this would exclude students, because this I'm just looking at the the data source here, it's from one of our market studies, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, it would exclude students,, but this would be inclusive of basically all renters in boulder, excluding students and I'm sure I can double check all that.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: just to be sure, I'm giving you accurate info,, but that is, is what I would say: okay, I'd love.

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Pb sarah silver:, if what you said was inaccurate,, please let us know.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. I will definitely do that. Okay, thank.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, you want us.

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Pb,, jorge boone:, let's yeah, thank you, I'm back, I'm back on yeah that slide. I was just curious. So does this I'm just trying to parse out where this, how this data comes out? Is this reflective of everyone who's renting in boulder? Is that reflective of the.

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Pb,, jorge boone: housing stock that exists for them,. I am just trying to figure out the chicken and the egg.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah, so this I think what this would reflect. I need a. I need a source for my source here, but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. This would reflect like existing renters.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: like what? What is the demand? So it's not necessarily units I'll have a slide on what the units are,, but this would be.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know potential boulder renters. What is that household makeup? So the majority of this is probably renting,, but I see what you're saying is it does it's do this way? Because those are the units that are available or are these the people that are looking for units and.

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Pb,, jorge boone: yeah exactly my question was: is this demand, or is this what's what's available and thus creating this.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: picture right,, so this so this would show demand,. I will double check looking at exactly what the sources,, but these are all like demand side, numbers.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, right.

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pb,, david ensign, --, he/him:, yep.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:- um this is this,, so this is kind of flipping that,. So this is where we're seeing kind of the you know supply side,. What is vacancy? This data is a little out of date,. This is from.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but I think we would see a similar picture today, just showing they can see rates in the boulder market. So again, that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I think, really is reflecting the demand side,. So we see you know the highest vacancy rates.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: this. This is all rental, of course, in the three bedroom units and that kind of decreasing, as we get to the smaller unit type so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: george- I think this kind of is the is the maybe a compliment piece to to your question on the on the chicken or egg. I think it's we're really seeing demand for the smaller unit types,, both on.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: demand side, renters, looking to rent a unit,, as well as the vacancy data in existing units in boulder oh.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, yeah, version., pb,, jorge boone:, so on there's the super interesting so on. Let's say the three bed 8.7 vacancy verse, the studio in one bed 5.8.

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Pb, jorge boone:, do you know the reason behind that? Is it because there aren't renters that are looking for that or that the inventory doesn't suit their needs and kind of goes back to lisa's question a little bit.

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Pb,, jorge boone: and the idea that, as people are transitioning through this system,, I could see a need for a three bedroom, but maybe is the three bedroom condo and not a townhouse, for example,. I just I just curious what your thoughts on that.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: sure yeah, I mean that's on you know, there's a lot of a lot of nuance there. Obviously it's probably a little bit of both. I mean,. I think you know this. Is this is, overall,? This is not just the affordable inventory, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. I think you would see kind of a mix of housing types available in these. You know categories of studio, two three bed, my guess, is it probably skews fairly similar to you know the overall builder market makeup where.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know,, we have,. We have a lot of single family homes,, but then we also have.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. You know plenty of apartments and condos they're, just a little bit more concentrated on a little dancer. So.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. It's an interesting question. I don't know that. I have a exact answer, my but my guess is some combination of both of those things.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: great thing next slide, laura.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: um and then this I think again trying to show a little bit on the supply side,. So on the left,. What you'll see this is all bhp units.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: as a breakdown by bedroom size,. So this includes you know our actual. You know bhp units,, as well as our tenant based vouchers.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then on the right side,. This is a snapshot of what the market has really been providing lately,. So this is from the boulder county, assessor's office, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. You know what you'll see here both I think bhp in the market, we're primarily providing the one and two beds really meeting demand, where it is where you'll see you know, the big difference is that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: php and our portfolio,, we do have more of the larger units than what the market is providing. I think that's that's very intentional. Because.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. You know, I think, as a housing authority. You look at that data and it's clear demand is really strong for smaller units,, but it's also it's not zero, for you. Know, two,, three bedroom units, either.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: whereas,, you know, I think what we've seen a lot of from the market side is. You know, they're they're. Looking at the same data, we are but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, the response,. There has been to primarily build only one in two bedroom units, because that's where you know we see about 70% of our renters are so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I think you know,. This is just bhp wanting to show that we're we're we're also trying to meet those folks where they are provide that that housing as well, so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: wait man,. If no questions here laura, I think the next slides are tsh, which is maybe back to you.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: alright,, so we're almost there thanks for hanging in there with us and.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, raven girl, just say: I know you have to leave in about.

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pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, 18 minutes so I'm.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: actually,, the soccer games not going so well,. So my my obligation is my personal life with my daughter's soccer game at boulder, high school so.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. Let us know if you want us to ask any final questions for you specifically and.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I can probably say a little bit longer. To.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: have it.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, so permanent, supportive housing jay talked about this a little bit. It's certainly been a topic of conversation in the city for a long time,, and I think it's something that we've also seen prioritized with.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. You know the city trying to find solutions that are.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: you know,, trying to get folks off the streets out of shelters and into more permanent solutions. There's a number of ways that we're going about that. So we're sort of talking about it from the side of the producer and jay really was talking about it from the side of the funder.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know, there's things like lee hill,, which is our permanent supportive housing property at the corner of the hill on broadway. So I've been north folder 31 units- that's been around now for about.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: eight years and it's doing, really, really well that,, according to our partner greg harms over at the shelter,. You know that's a great solution for many people,, but it's not the solution for all people exiting homelessness.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and so there's also a solution that works well for for others, is to be integrated into a larger community, and so,. For example, at 30 pearl I mentioned,. We have 10 units of permanent supportive housing that will have services.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: coming in partner from the shelter and those are just blended into the building and sort of not identified in any way other than just. You know it's a unit that has done this service attachment to it and about her.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: when we acquire property often we will set aside priority or preference for an a resident who's. Been.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, who is exiting homelessness, and so recent purchases by bhp have set aside a number of units to to meet those needs.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and then we also have worked with the sea for,, and this is not in the development side of things, or the acquisition side,. But we are administering.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: dedicated local funds, dedicated city funds to house people exiting homelessness with a local voucher. So not just a.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, and this is augmenting federal resources for this housing choice. Voucher program, these resources, I coming from the city and those are really been successful as well, and it comes again with wraparound services and,, as it says in this instance, from shelton for the house.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: questions on on these different tactics on how how to help address homeless issues in the city.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and then the last slide, and this one, I think,, could help address you know,. This is very hypothetical and we can.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: don't need to get hung up on on exactly the numbers here,, but this is really trying to demonstrate the struggle for creating that.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, three bedroom, two bath single family home in the city,, and so this is just trying to give you a snapshot of why that is a product type that is challenging to produce for homeownership. So on this this.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: left side here,, looking at sort of a total development cost of $580,000 you've got some land. You've got an infrastructure entitlements. Your financing, costs.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: 380,000 to construct so total of $580,000. Here again, there's there's levers,. We can pull here to manipulate those,, but this is,, you know.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. What a very efficient build could look like here in boulder.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: and then over here is,, you have what.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: people qualify for under the existing homeownership low, affordable, homeownership programs and so at 120% of am I qualify at 516,000.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, that's how much you would qualify to purchase for 31 it's. You know it goes down by am I levels here and then over here,. You can see where the gaps are for producing, that kind of housing, so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I'm not saying it's not doable. I am just saying that there are certainly challenges to being able to provide that product time and I think you know,. This is just providing a little bit of insight into that. I will say that we are working on a homeownership per.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: project at the moment to see about its viability and we hope to bring that forward and sometime in the next year,. So it's but it's a challenge and it's it's something that is.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, it's just hard in the city where land cost is really expensive. So.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, wait. I see questions during jersey.

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Pb,, jorge boone: yeah. What would thank you for this super helpful? um What would this is? What would this look like as an attached a townhome? Rather this quote unquote single family home, or is that what this is.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so I mean it would be similar based on. I mean it probably less if it's attached,, certainly if you're starting to stack it would be less, but that's not the product type,. I think that.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: we've heard is desired,, so if you are doing a duplex, that's side by side, or a triplex or four plex, or something like that versus single family home.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. Your fluctuation is going to be in how many units, you can get on a piece of land,, so your variable will be land cost most likely. So if you are able to get more units in there through doing duplexes, then maybe your land cost goes down some and you can bring that cost. Down.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: with a shirt party well, of course, you're, going to have a little bit of efficiency with your bill type and they'll cost. So you know you might see a bit. I don't want a project on how much exactly that would be. I haven't put a pencil to it. But.

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Pb,, jorge boone: I'd be I'd, be curious to I mean not for now. You don't have that, but I'm just like be curious to understand what the differences might look. Like.

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Pb, jorge boone:, because I think that would be interesting.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, and that might be actually something we could even think to have data for in our retreat, because it kind of moves into that moderately lisa.

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Pb, lisa smith: yeah, so kind of continuing on the of the middle income or moderate income and, of course,. As we see people salaries go up and, as we see.

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Pb, lisa smith:, the cost of housing go up not only in boulder but across the verbiage, in the us,, the thresholds for that also increase,. But I a perception I hold and I'd like to hear from staff, I'm especially before you guys have to go. If this is correct, is that.

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Pb, lisa smith:, although we can always do better, and we have goals to hit that we're not hitting yet and,. In many ways the hp or affordable housing.

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Pb, lisa smith: do quite a good job of providing compared to other cities, compared to other municipalities, do a great job of providing that low to kind of moderate income. Rentals, especially you know one or two bedroom unit,, which is what most people want in that rental. Range.

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Pb, lisa smith: and then kind of where, where we struggle- and I think this is why we picked it for a retreat topic. Is.

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Pb, lisa smith: perhaps, as those same people or other people in our community rise more into that moderate to middle income. Housing.

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Pb, lisa smith: that there's pressures from all sides,, so we don't have the best tools to finance those through bhp or other means. Additionally,. The market is not incentivized to provide those. In fact, it's incentivize to build either luxury product or multiple units.

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Pb, lisa smith: is that a fair perception that that's kind of the spot,, where we're most squeezed.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah, absolutely I mean, so in this instance, where we're looking at these these gaps here, there isn't a source of equity to come in and fill that gap right,. So the tax credit program, doesn't.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: extend into this homeownership world. So so so, there's not a great source of equity for us to be able to go and do it, and then,, as you suggest quite quite.,.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: wisely that yeah the market is not going to be driven to do this because they're not going to want to you know, build something and then put a covenant on it,, where they can't sell it for what it cost them to build him. Right.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, but it's not impossible. We're trying really hard so will hopefully be back in front of you. One of these days, with a great project that you can take a look I'm.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: sorry. pb, sarah silver:, I'm laura before you depart for the the the less than happy soccer game.

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Pb sarah silver: so.

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Pb sarah silver:, I think what none of us wants to do is throw up our hands and say okay,, so we can only build.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: low to moderate income and. pb, sarah silver: super high income, housing, and that are bold valley. Comp plan goals are very, very clear that that we have these objectives, about housing, diversity and meeting the needs of different incomes, income and and employees,, etc,, etc.

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Pb sarah silver:: this is a little bit outside just telling us what bhp is doing, but as someone who's an expert in the in the field of housing. Development.-.

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Pb sarah silver:: what are some of the ways that you think we should be thinking about how to fill in that gap,, but how to create how to incent how to make incentives that would help address that gaping hole.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah, I mean it's a great question and it's hard, I mean,. I do think there's.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know, a variety of ways to do. It is not always going to be the most popular. Do you think, there's there's land use issues that we can look at to. You know again create that diversity of housing type ology. That would be.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: you know, create options within the city, we already have. A vast majority of our zoning in the city is single family homes, so money.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: for lack of a better way, to put it as a way that we could maybe tap into existing communities within in our town to keep people here, it just it just.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: takes a tremendous amount of money, and then it becomes a values. Question is that money best spent on.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: one house and one family being able to live here affordably, or is that money better spent on producing 30 units in a different location? I don't have an answer to that,, but I do think that you know, there are ways that we can tackle it. I think it's it's multifaceted in terms of a solution.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: in terms of incentivizing developers to do that and.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, that's really challenging. As well, I mean we, we have mechanisms in place, to.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: have them pay in or have them develop on site,, but there isn't a great tool that I'm come up with to tell the market rate developer, how to pencil their performance in a way that would make them lose. Money.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so I I just I don't know,, especially with land values as high as they are in town and.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, not not a lot of ability, not a lot of places that we can actually do those. You know. Town houses are single family as well single family homes. It's pretty limited.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. I know that we have.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, the city's by the planner reserve,, I mean, I think, there's there's land,, but it really just is. Is that again evaluate question for our community, as to how we.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: do we develop that are doing our development.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: yeah. We might have some pretty interesting, not has, and the retreats on that.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I've done,. Would you like to.

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pb, john gerstle: yeah. Thank you thanks very interesting presentation,. I wonder if you could apply in on the relative benefits of vouchers versus the construction of.

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Pb john gerstle:, an operation of buildings by owner housing partners, because bhp does both and I've never seen any sort of evaluation of the pros and cons of each approach..

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, that's a great question,. I mean I think, it's again the more options you provide to the community and to an individual to have choice, the better. So some people may not want to have to go and source, a place to live after they've gone through the work to attain.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know, to the top of the list, so to speak,, and they just want to move into someplace and they wanted.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. Maybe the location is right for the house that boulder housing partners actually owns and manages.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: the real benefit to the housing choice. Voucher program is its ultimate choice, you know,, and so that allows your holder can go and live anywhere,, and you know I think the intent of that program from when it was created, was to.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: again blend in utilize market rate, housing and sort of create this public private partnership, and I think that that's really valuable.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, I think it's very personal to people do they want to live in a property that is 100% affordable,, or would they rather go and look for a place that could be a little bit more anonymous. Perhaps with that affordability.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: status, so to speak, so,, so I don't know that we've actually ever done as a housing authority a pro con. I think we just look at it as a tool in the toolbox,, and sometimes it works best for some people and.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: property works better, for others.

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Pb john gerstle:, I guess what I'm what I'm wondering, is to what degree the city should be interested in participating directly in the voucher program, along with the the federal government and so on,, as opposed to focusing its efforts on on the construction and operation of projects..

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: that would be a question I'd leave to the city,. I will say that they have invested with the voucher program and we have a dedicated source of funds from the city for a.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: permanent, supportive housing prioritized list,. So we have now a local voucher program. That's been created by the city.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: bhp, administers those dollars and it's set aside or directed completely individuals exiting homelessness, so that does exist. It's very specific on the population being served. But.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know, there's a good source of data as to success and how that's worked well for this particular population, and maybe that could be something I consider to expand. Yeah.

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Pb john gerstle: well, good job.

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Cob jay sugnet: just to add from sort of the city's perspective,. I think I understand what you're saying is: what, if the city just subsidized market rate rent for household throughout boulder right.

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Cob jay sugnet:, it's sort of a question,, you know what is the priority and how do you spend scarce resources,, so I think, from my perspective, way. I would think about it. Is.

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Cob jay sugnet:, instead of using that those dollars to subsidize market rate rents.

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Cob jay sugnet:. We would rather spend that money to produce a permanently affordable unit. That's going to be there in perpetuity, so it's sort of one time subsidizing the market versus providing that asset that we can retain a you know in perpetuity. Does that does that make sense.

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Pb john gerstle:, oh sure, I,, and I think that that is a very important analysis. It's just interesting to to have an explicitly understood.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, right.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, there other other questions.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, well.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I guess.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:- that was the last slide, so we.

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pb,, david ensign, -- he/him:, can certainly take another classic questions if people haven't, but I'm word in nj that was.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: fantastic. I I learned a lot from it.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I will say that the idea of levers came up and we talked about funding sources,, and so you know,. I think that this board is very interested in promoting additional ways that we can, under the state and federal law.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: get more revenue for these kinds of things,. So if those things come before us,, I think we'd be really interested in seeing them,. We have put recommendations into our annual council letter on this that we're looking from our lovers. So.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I think that I could you know,, certainly safe, that I've felt a lot of support from those kinds of things on the board should take them out. So always always looking sarah go ahead.

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Pb sarah silver:, so um I realized what I'm struggling with in terms of these.

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Pb sarah silver: charts that he shared with us. What's the total like what is the not what might the need be in 10 years and not what was the need 10 years ago,? But what is the? What is the need right now for have you have percentages, of.

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Pb sarah silver:, what demand is.

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Pb sarah silver:, but but there's no what's the pie, is it are there,? You know we have a population of 108,000.

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Pb sarah silver: that right 108,000 people what percentage of those.

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Pb sarah silver: are eligible would be eligible for bhp housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: that., ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: boy. That was that that second table I showed, I think, is- is probably the table that would make sense there laura.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: yep. I think it's slide 15,. There is the.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, that's still a percentage.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, so the total there. That's that's about 5668, sarah, that those are those are absolute numbers you're, seeing there.

N

Pb sarah silver: yeah.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and so, this this excludes the table, excludes people earning less than 40% am I,, because this was done for us. Specific.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: unit mix that we were proposing,, but you can see, at that. 4050 60% am I,. Those are basically the total number of eligible renters in boulder market at those income level,. So the total.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: that would qualify as is greater than that, because this is excluding that less than 40% number,, but it gives you at least an idea.

H

Pb sarah silver: okay,. So can you guys take us.

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Pb, sarah silver:, you know your market better than anybody. What's the number of below 40% am I.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, my and laura you know jump in here. My guess is it's significant. I think you looked at our median income that we're serving across our portfolio and was about $15,000 a year. So that is firmly in that 30% am I range so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. I don't know if it's it's probably not double this number, but it's you know my guess. Is it's another three or 4000 households, pure pure gas, based on that, but.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I think households., ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, okay, households, yeah,, so I would say we're approaching about 10,000, just based on these numbers,. These are from probably early 2019 is when this data is, is from.

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Pb sarah silver: and,, but that doesn't mean so just one, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to it's a,. You know, as mark twain says, there's lies, damn lies and statistics. I'm just.

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Pb sarah silver: trying to understand. pb sarah silver: sort of the the statistics here.

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Pb sarah silver:, those who are eligible are not necessarily on housed. They might be housed not in bhp housing. They might be in.

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Pb sarah silver: market rate, affordable meaning,, especially for the below 40%, they might be in.

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Pb sarah silver: the manufactured home, neighborhoods and this,, so this is, this is a number that would qualify with it. Doesn't.

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Pb sarah silver: mean okay.

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ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, that's right so yeah. These says nothing about their current housing day as this,, so they could be yeah living in.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, you know,, unrestricted, affordable apartment or they could be paying 70% of their income towards rents,. Just because that's what they're doing to get by this is really just household income household household size by income that would qualify for affordable, housing.

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Pb sarah silver: and can you get? Can you give us any sense of how much larger or smaller this number is from 10 years ago or 15 years ago, or maybe it has to be a percentage of population? I'm just I'm trying to, and I love to sort of contextualize it.

P

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know, I don't. I don't know that that is super interesting. I definitely understand that's how that would be valuable.

P

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. You know, I think if I were to say anecdotally, we have not seen any decrease in demand, so,, but you know that the percent that would qualify, I don't think, is shrinking necessarily in boulder I'm.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: actually,, was. pb, sarah silver:. I was actually thinking that it has been. ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: increasing over time, versus.

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pb, sarah silver:. So I'm trying to understand what that trajectory.

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Pb sarah silver: yeah flat line,, or is it a trajectory of some kind.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, so I think, as we've seen, boulder, have an increase in our area median income,. We have seen more and more people qualify, because you know, a certain the skewing of that area. Median income, with high income.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: residents moving into town would then have more people qualify because of the discrepancy of the few are getting the number higher than.

N

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: what the income levels are increasing.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: at that lower sort of maybe a service level type of position,. So I do think that that's a nut that we can crack for you, sarah and we can get some information over to you and try and get you some trend lines as to what.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: we've seen but,, given the increase, dramatic increase,, I would say in area median income, I would be able to with some confidence,, but I will caveat that that will check into say that that that pool has grown.

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Pb, sarah silver:, so that's that would be if it's not a huge burden on you guys,. That would be really, really interesting..

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: yeah, no problem we'll we'll take that and take that no problem, thank you.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: john go ahead.

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Pb john gerstle: yeah I'd be interested to learn what sort of the vacancy rates, you have under present conditions. I'm just looking at your web page.

K

Pb john gerstle:- and I see you know I don't know,, maybe 15 notices of 15 or 20 apartments that are now available and that doesn't seem like much,. But I don't know if that's typical or or how long these take to get rented. So I'd be interested to learn about them.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners:, so we have a regionally operate in that like 97 98% occupancy rates are our vacancy rates are pretty very low.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: we've also moved away from a model of having these very long waiting list,, and so we do sort of a point in time, marketing the way a pride of marketing,. Can I stop sharing my screen,, so I can see.

N

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: so that yeah., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: so is probably about right,. I think that you know, during coda. We did not see a lot of increase in vacancy and we're seeing a little bit more movement now,, and I also think that.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:. You know the leasing process has been a little bit challenged,, but now that we're getting back to more normal.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: sort of quasi post pandemic times it's it's a little bit easier to show units, and then people are more interested and moving to you know, locations that are new,, so the 15 units I'd say is probably a of our. You know: 1600 ish portfolio, relatively small.,.

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Pb john gerstle: thank you.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, all right.

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pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, well., pb,, david ensign, -- he/him:, anything else we want to discuss tonight. I read my would have actually offered up the break,, but I thought well with that eight o'clock time coming,, you can probably push through. So thanks for being clock or you know cooperating with that kind of long two hour, session.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah. I really appreciate the time tonight,. I think you know there's some questions I feel like. I bought a little bit.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: georgie, I feel like I can get some better information to you if you're interested regarding that density versus scaling question and then sarah will follow up on that trend line regarding number of people that would be.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: qualifying for the affordable housing. Is there any other follow up that we can help with pace meeting.

L

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pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. We have any other specific ones,. We want to see.

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I think. pb sarah silver:. I think we're just going to double check if the.

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Pb sarah silver: rental housing market, data.

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Pb sarah silver:, I included students are not the first of the of the graphs. You showed us just to double check.

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pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, awesome.

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Cob jay sugnet: john. How about your question about the criteria for the city's funding decisions? Are you still interested in that, or did you get a sense from laura's presentation.

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Pb john gerstle: I'd be very interested to hear laura's comments on thanks for mentioning.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: yeah.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder, housing, partners: and ya know we do we compete,, I think you know my experience with the housing division and competing for funds is that there they have a separate entity, called the technical review. Committee.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: technical review group, dr g's, that makes this and you know I think, they're, looking at very similar things as to.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: what a tough application with altogether so usually those things will kind of go hand in hand,. They look at how deep the affordability is. So are we getting below 60% of am I regularly.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing partners: were with the unit configurations that we're suggesting and the ama is associated with that.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, I think that's a that's a big one for them and then special needs populations,. I think, would be another piece of that consideration if we're looking at.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: currently,, supportive housing, for example,. I think that's a very high priority and has been for a while, and so that would also be something that they would look to. Fund.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: and also just it's opportunistic, so you know,, I think, it,. You know when there are.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners: good opportunities, for example, to buy an apartment complex,. You know, they're looking to you, know, help out in those instances, so that we can.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, you know capture those opportunities before they get swept away into the into the market.

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Cob jay sugnet:, I also put in the the toolkit of housing options that came out of the 2015 hours in boulder initiative. That's in the chat.

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Cob jay sugnet:, but that's definitely worth the proposal because I know you had the questions about what can we really do to address her? Affordable housing, challenges.

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Cob jay sugnet: and you know just to reiterate,. I mean this has been an issue in boulder for decades, and there have been comprehensive housing strategies,. There have been task force and put together.

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Cob jay sugnet: lots of time and effort has gone into trying to crack this nut.

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Cob jay sugnet: and that's sort of a list of all the possible options that have been explored to date, so that might be helpful to produce as well.

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Pb john gerstle: thank you.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: yeah. I think when I started with planning board four years ago that little over four years ago,, we were like in the 7.5% range and it's kind of nice to look at that graph with the lines getting a little bit closer together. So it's it's very rewarding to see progress in this.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners: yeah, I have to say, the partnership with the city and I do want to just say thank you to jay and the housing team and the planning staff and, of course, planning board but.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners: there has been, I think, a great synergy between those parties and the housing authority, and we've been able to really start to dramatically move that dial and we're seeing good production coming about from that really quality.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners:, high quality, good location, housing for the city, so that's exciting.,.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: throws you want to. pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, wrap it up for us.

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Cob, charles ferro:, I just wanted to thank everybody for spending the time to have this conversation tonight and lori and jay know. It involves a lot of preparation, so really appreciate it,. I hope that the board found it helpful.

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Pb, peter vitale: thank you.

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Cob charles ferro: follow up with the couple of questions that are out there lingering and really appreciate the continued partnership. Lauren and.

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I would agree, I think.

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cob charles ferro:, the the outputs are significant and you know,. The quality of the housing that you guys are continue to develop in the community is fantastic. So thanks very much again for the opportunity to have a conversation.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners:, which is.

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pb, david ensign, -- he/him: great. So um with that, I will just go ahead and we do have a debrief and calendar check on our schedule or, but thanks so much laura thanks. Anybody who's not on the board and and.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I guess charles you can stay with us as we do this,, but I actually without cindy there's probably, and we have another meeting in a week,. I think we did a pretty extensive calendar check last week sure,. So I don't know if there's any updates that you have charles.

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Cob, charles ferro: no,, no updates just next week june 3 will be the board's conversation about phase two of community benefits, so that's, the only thing that will be on the agenda,. I would imagine that will be a pretty detailed conversation.

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Cob, charles ferro:, we'll have our consultants from kaiser marston there to help speak to some of the data. That's been compiled,, but we really look forward to having a conversation with the board, other than that. No other new additions to the calendar or any other matters from staff.

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Pb, lisa smith: yeah, I did let cindy know, but I anticipate being a little bit late next week. um I don't think there's anything I'll need to vote on right out of the gate.

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Pb, lisa, smith: and again cindy's aware,, but I expect that I'll probably join sometime between 630 and seven. So just heads up for other members that I'll be a little late next week, they get it resolved still trying.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, okay, young.

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Pb john gerstle:, I was sorry to miss last week session,, but I just wondered,. I saw on the agenda that that.

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Pb john gerstle:, how I had proposed.

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pb john gerstle: that a couple temporary board members be appointed to deal help deal with see you south.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, oh yeah., pb john gerstle: and,, and I just wondered what the status of that was. I wasn't able to see the video or the notes from that meeting, and so that's what I wanted to inquire. About.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, the timing, helen and I just had a conversation about this, and I can even provide some additional information. Here, did you want to start.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, yeah last week,. We asked the board the board asked for a limited edition of board members to avoid the possibility that the board is not able to act if only four or five members of their because you need for votes to pass any motion for or against.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: and the board,, it was only for board members who could participate because, to a few or recuse, but the board voted to unanimously.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: to ask for payment of those board members, and my next step is to approach the mayor, together with david enzyme.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: and I'm still working on whether we actually need to go to council of the mayor can appoint those themselves. So that's going to be the next step and david I'll. Let you speak to what would you have done in addition.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: for so hell,. It said that his chair, that I could follow this city's procedures for approaching former board members and we alternate so the city.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: has us going backwards in order of folks who have rotated off the board harmon I talked to him,. He confirmed that he is still in every huge state,, so we know that.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. I am waiting to hear back from brian bowen,, who is the previous person I suspect he might be eligible, and not have refuted recusal. I talked to liz liz putnam.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, payton gosh. That was a moment to payments.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:- I guess this payment, and I was still working for series, and, as a result, would probably would have to recuse, which is kind of a disappointment. Because.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:. This has a lot of hydrology expertise,. So if I wish that weren't the case,- but I spoke with also with crystal gray,- and she is available, so if things go well, we'll probably put in that request that sam consider.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him: rainbow and ingrid crystal gray,, as the alternative to be asked to join us on, is on the 22nd of july.

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Pb john gerstle:, so I just wanted to ask,. I think that seems like a reasonable procedure,, but I just wanted to ask: is this laid out somewhere in the city charter that this is how this question is dealt with, that it's only former planning board members who are eligible for this yes.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, we have a cool section that allows for the appointment of alternate board members and then the I think it's the city council procedures that set for it, who may be appointed and.

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Pb john gerstle:, and how that's best. hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: yep? It specifies former board members and that you go down low backwards,. For you know you, you appoint the most recently departed member of the board who's eligible and able to participate in the item.

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Pb john gerstle: question: okay, well, thank you,. I just wanted to catch up on that.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, as you go back through those members,, you get more and more people who were in the room, when we put the guiding principles in the comp plan.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, so even if we went one more john putnam was on the board when we, when we did the guiding principles so we're getting people in the room, who were actually maybe.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: have some insights when you know into that update the comp plan,. So we have that kind of advantage that this algorithm asks for that,, which I thought was kind of cool..

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, yeah.

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Pb, david ensign, --, he/him:, oh, and I've made concerning just while we're on db calendar check on the retreats. We have a pretty good agenda to share, but I'll do that in matters next week.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I'm working with all the speakers to they have like yes and everybody's reading. Their book.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I'm working with all the speakers to make sure that they know all of the things that everybody brought up, that they would like. Discussed.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him: so,, like some of the detailed questions, will appear on kind of the planning sheet and the agenda will be a little bit more general than that,. But the staff is aware of all the questions in each of the categories that people submitted.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, all right, anything else from charles there hello, or any other board members.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, excellent. pb, david ensign, -- he/him: great for this one didn't go. Tell me a night.

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Pb, david ensign, -- he/him:, I do know that.

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pb, david ensign, -- he/him: up again,. Thank you so much for joining us I,. I know that things are rough schedule wise so and it's two hours later there so so much appreciated so goodnight everybody and we'll see you in a week.

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Cob, charles ferro:, thanks so much.

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Pb, jorge boone:, I thank you. cob charles ferro:. I saw. three.