►
Description
City of Charleston Committee on Community Development 8/18/2022
A
D
A
A
A
C
D
F
Great
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
members
of
the
committee
casting
drewlay
with
historic,
charleston
foundation.
I
wanted
to
comment
on
agenda
item
three
and
four
regarding
item
three
we've
been
closely
following
conversations
in
this
committee
by
city
council
on
car
demo,
purview
north
of
wine
street.
This
district
includes
some
really
great
neighborhoods,
whose
architecture
captures
and
tells
important
parts
of
charleston's
history
and
culture
worthy
of
celebration
and
preservation.
F
Regarding
height
and
architectural
merit
agenda
item
4
hcf
is
very
supportive
of
the
ordinance
concerning
heightened
merit.
We
look
forward
to
participating
in
this
overdue
dialogue.
Architectural
merit
was
adopted
in
2017
to
incentivize
developers
to
produce
really
great
designs
using
high
quality
materials
and
to
make
meaningful
contributions
to
the
public
realm.
In
practice,
it
has
not
achieved
those
intentions
and
the
high
level
of
architecture
that
charleston
deserves.
We
hear
this
from
the
community
on
a
regular
basis.
F
We
did
a
survey
last
year
of
barl
applications
since
2017
and
found
that
13
of
11
excuse
me.
11
of
13
properties,
who'd
applied
for
architectural
merit,
height
got
it,
and
the
two
that
were
denied
are
still
working
their
way
now
through
the
bar
application
process
and
a
few
additional
applications
have
been
submitted
which
are
also
pending.
F
There
is
a
place
for
large-scale
buildings
in
charleston
density
on
the
peninsula
and
sorely
needed
additions
to
the
housing
stock
can
still
be
achieved
without
architectural
merit
and
the
ordinance
before
you
proposes
sensible
changes
and
much
needed
clarity,
while
also
importantly,
incentivizing
the
creation
of
new,
affordable
housing.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
G
I
don't,
but
since
you
I
just
wanted
to
say,
thank
you
to
cassian
and
everyone
at
hcf,
as
well
as
brian
turner,
preservation
society
for
their
work
on
both
of
these
issues.
And
for
talking
to
me
and
answering
my
questions
and
it's
great
to
have.
You
know,
y'all
engaged
in
these
very
important
discussions,
and
I
appreciate
y'all's
open-mindedness
to
some
of
the
concerns
that
councilman
sacrament
and
I
brought
forward,
and
we
we
appreciate
the
dialogue.
A
D
Great
good
afternoon,
council
chairman,
my
name,
is
sam
spence
from
the
preservation
society
of
charleston
item
registering
comments
today
on
the
north
of
lion
street
revisions
and
proposals
to
remove
architectural
merit
from
height
zoning
high
district
zending
code
over
the
past
several
months.
The
preservation
society
has
engaged
with
city
staff
preservation,
colleagues
and
the
design
community
on
changes
to
be
our
policies
for
north
of
wine
street
and
we're
pleased
to
see
them
now
move
forward
for
review
and
adoption.
D
First,
we
believe
these
policy
change
objectives
proposed
for
north
of
line
street
will
substantially
benefit
homeowners,
design,
professionals
and
policy
makers,
like
you
all
alike,
in
the
regulatory
policy,
are
in
the
regulatory
process.
Analysis
by
our
team
at
the
preservation
society
found
that
of
var
demolition,
preview,
application,
var,
demolition,
requests
of
likely
and
sorry
shows.
D
Excuse
me
analysis
by
our
team
shows
disparities
between
likely
investor-owned
properties
and
individual
homeowners
when
navigating
the
bar
demolition
purview
regulations.
So,
for
example,
we
looked
at
all
the
applications
since
2017,
that's
98,
demolition,
requests
in
the
area
and
66
of
those
were
denied,
with
non-investors
making
up
a
disproportionate
amount
of
those
about
70
of
those
denials.
D
This
is
just
one
thing:
the
city
can
do
to
kind
of
forestall
population
shifts
by
long-time
residents
away
from
the
city's
traditionally
diverse
urban
core.
Again
we're
happy
to
be
partners
in
this
to
help
facilitate
the
application
of
these
new
rules
and
make
sure
they're,
transparent
and
understandable
for
folks
north
of
line
on
architectural
merit
I'll
refer
you
to
our
president's
president.
Ceo's
op-ed
and
tuesday's
posting
courier
on
the
issue.
I
think
many
of
you
have
seen
it.
He
spoke
to
you
also
on
tuesday
at
council,
but
I'll
just
say.
D
The
proposal
is
needed
and
long
overdue
revision
that
reflects
the
modern
reality
of
building
in
charleston.
Property
owners
are
going
to
seek
to
build
taller
and
larger,
and
it's
the
government's
responsibility
to
set
a
predictable
process
forward.
Eliminating
the
discretion
of
dar
to
grant
height
is
a
critical
step
to
do
that.
D
The
requests
for
waivers
like
kashin,
said
based
on
height,
are
based
on
architectural
merit
have
become
so
commonplace
that
it's
almost
a
default
for
many
developers
and
worse.
The
provision
has
tied
up
many
of
these
folks
in
expensive
litigation.
That's
a
waste
of
taxpayer
money
also,
so
we
support
for
the
change
to
height
districts
and
stand
ready
to
work
as
partners
thanks.
A
So
we
we
have
to
look
at
it
very
carefully
everything
north
of
blind
street,
because
it's
something
new
and
something
different
for
the
homeowners,
and
so
these
are
something
things
that
even
the
council
is
looking
at
very
seriously.
I
think
you
know
that
I
have
seen
from
my
colleagues
on
council.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
participation.
H
A
It
was
was
moving
second,
all
in
favor,
but
by
saying
aye,
aye
okay
poses
made
eyes
happen
and
we
we
don't
have
any
oval
business,
none.
So
we'll
move
on
down
to
new
business
item
d
d1:
it's
a
city
of
charleston
department
of
housing,
community
development,
the
u.s
department
of
housing,
urban
development,
section
108,
financing,
tools
for
the
acquisition
and
development
of
affordable
and
workforce
housing.
Powerpoint
presentation
who's
going
to
held
that
mr
yana.
C
C
So
what
we
are
presenting
to
you
today
is
one
of
the
options
that
we
would
like
to
pursue
to
help
address,
that
funding
need
that
funding
need
again
would
help
us
to
continue
to
both
acquire
property,
construct,
property
and
preserve
property
in
the
city
of
charleston
and
so
patrick.
Can
you
pull
my
presentation
up?
I
have
just
a
few
slides
for
the
committee
and
basically,
those
slides
are
derived
from
the
information
we
sent
as
an
attachment.
C
E
C
And
patrick,
we
can
go
past
that
I
guess
I
don't
have
control
over
that.
So,
as
I
indicated
council
members,
the
purpose
for
the
108
loan
and
why
we
need
it
is
to
facilitate
the
continued
development
of
affordable
and
workforce
housing
in
the
city
of
charleston
through
the
following
acquisition,
construction
and
rehabilitation-
and
I
will
say
to
you
all
as
a
reminder:
we
do
have
funding
sources
on
hand.
Patrick,
would
you
go
to
the
next
slide?
C
As
you
all
know,
we
have
the
fee
and
loot
funding
that
is
available
to
us,
and
we
have.
We
basically
have
commitments,
that's
correct
against
our
fee
and
lieu
dollars.
We
also
have
our
franchise
fee
funding
that
we'll
talk
about
briefly,
and
then
we
have
the
federal
dollars
that
the
department
of
housing
and
urban
development
awards
us
each
year
beyond
those
dollars.
We
don't
have
a
dedicated
source
of
funds
by
which
to
continue
these
efforts,
hence
our
desire
to
secure
a
108
loan.
C
What
I
have
for
you
on
this
particular
slide
is
a
sample
of
the
projects
that
we
have
on
the
books.
If
you
will
that
we
will
implement,
hopefully
over
the
next
year
or
two
and
now
this
is
in
addition
to
what
you
all
approved
relative
to
67
america
street.
The
other
day
we
acquired
a
site
on
juniper
street
in
the
west
ashley
community
approximately
four
years
ago.
Our
goal
is
to
build
10
for
sale,
town
homes
there.
That
project
has
been
been
put
out
to
bid.
We
anticipate
the
return
of
those
bids.
C
At
the
end
of
this
month
we
are
building,
as
I
indicated,
10
town
homes,
approximately
1100
square
feet.
Those
properties
will
be
priced
at
and
again.
These
are
estimates
300
dollars
a
square
foot.
We
have
on
hand
right
now
to
help
get
those
homes
built
a
million
three
hundred
thousand.
That
funding
is
derived
from
our
franchise
fee
dollars.
So
if
those
projects
or
if
those
town
homes
come
in
at
the
anticipated
price,
we
will
have
a
two
million
dollar
gap
that
we
will
need
to
fill
in
order
to
facilitate
that
development.
C
As
you
all
know,
the
heartland
group,
which
is
associated
with
the
magnolia
development,
committed
a
harriet
street
site
to
the
city
of
charleston.
They
basically
transferred
that
to
us
as
part
of
their
affordable
housing
commitment.
Our
design
center
has
done
a
study
by
which
we
believe
we
can
get
26
attached
units
at
that
site.
C
C
We
are
waiting
for
the
final
transfer
of
that
land
that
what
we,
what
we're
basically
attempting
to
do,
is
plan
ahead.
For
what
we'd
like
to
do-
and
this
is
another
site
that
is
available
to
us
on
the
site-
there
are
two
homes
that
we
will
have
to
eventually
demolish,
but
right
now
we
are
awaiting
the
final
transfer
of
that
land.
We
also
have
available
to
us
three
what
we
call
scattered
site
lots.
C
C
We
bid
these
properties
out
back
in
2019
the
average
cost
to
build
each
one
of
these
was
366
000
and
I
would
just
say
to
the
committee:
we
have
not
we
kind
of
put
those
on
the
shelf.
If
you
will,
because
we
felt
strongly
that
those
prices
were
too
high
and
one
they
would
not,
the
the
cost
of
them
would
be
greater
than
what
the
individual
individuals
that
we
assist
could
afford,
and
we
would
have
to
subsidize
it
too
heavily.
C
So
we
are
hoping
to
go
back
and
rebuild
those
later
this
year
early
next
year,
but
if
we
were
looking
at
attempting
to
fund
that
we
have
about
500
000
dollars
in
cdbg
program
income,
but
if
the
prices
illustrated
here,
we
still
would
have
a
gap
of
about
598
000
patrick.
Would
you
go
to
the
next
screen
for
me?
Please,
so
how
much
funding
can
we
secure
under
the
108
loan?
Wanted
you
to
be
aware
of
that?
C
Based
on
the
guidelines,
the
city
could
borrow
up
to
five
times
its
annual
allocation
of
community
development
block
grant
dollars.
We
currently
secure
about
845
000
annually
in
cdbg,
so
that
would
equate
to
a
loan
of
around
4.2
225
million,
and
the
goal
with
repayment
of
those
funds
would
be
upon
the
sale
of
the
for
sale
units,
a
portion
of
those
funds,
and
we
would
certainly
have
to
look
at
what
those
dollars
equated
to
would
go
towards
paying
that
108
loan
off.
C
Naturally,
full
faith
and
credit
of
the
city
is
another,
and
then
a
lien
on
property
owned
by
the
city
of
charleston
is
also
another
collateral
requirement
under
the
108
loan
next
slide,
and
I
really
just
talked
about
this
various
sources
by
which
we
could
repay
the
108
loan.
I
know
that
that
would
be,
that
is
of
great
consideration
to
the
committee
and
to
council,
and
so
that
is
the
process
for
repayment
and
then
next
slide,
patrick,
and
so
I
would
also
mention
to
the
committee,
because
I
didn't
put
that
on.
C
There
is
interim
financing
at
a
variable
interest
rate
that
is
based
on
the
three
month,
t
bill
auction
rate
and
then
there's
a
permanent
financing
rate,
which
is
a
competitive,
fixed
interest
rate
that
is
available
through
hud's
public,
offering.
We
have
begun
conversations
as
we
contemplated
bringing
this
before
the
committee.
C
We
conducted
an
initial
meeting
with
the
department
of
housing
and
urban
development.
Again
the
information
that
we
sent
to
you
all
as
an
attachment
was
derived
from
the
meeting
we
held
both
with
our
local
and,
when
I
say,
local
columbia,
essentially
hud
office
and
hud
headquarters.
We
met
with
our
budget
finance
and
revenue
collections.
Leadership
to
secure
their
feedback,
naturally
that'll
be
ongoing.
C
C
A
Thank
you,
ms
johnson
committee
members.
If
you
have
any
questions,
I
would
like
to
say
that
we
need
to
get
this
if
possibly,
if
we
can
acquire
this.
This
is
something
that's
very
needed
in
charleston.
As
you
see
the
amount
and
the
cost
of
building
in
charleston,
I
mean,
if
going
through,
not
the
roof,
but
it
might
be
the
ceiling
and
everything
else.
It's
probably
reaching
the
sky
right
now
for
us
to
build
anything
here,
even
to
say,
affordability.
That's
that
terminology
is,
I
don't
know,
what's
going
to
go
by
next
year.
A
It
might
be
go
away,
but
it's
very
hard
to
be
to
build
in
the
city
of
charleston,
as
you
can
see
in
the
cost
factor
of
what
it
costs
and
if
we
don't
have
monies
coming
from
somebody
else,
even
to
help
us
to
do
this,
it's
going
to
be
hard
because
the
city
can't
do
it.
We
can't
do
it
alone,
and
I
I
just
applaud
johnson
for
trying
to
reach
out
with
the
108
loan.
A
A
So
this
came
about
years
ago
with
the
property
that
they
was
going
to
transfer
over
to
us,
and-
and
I
don't
know
how
many
cleanup
in
that
area
need
to
be
done
if
they
properly
have
that
at
all.
I
don't
know,
okay,
you
don't
need
to
clean
up
in
that
particular
area.
So
that's
that's
a
plus
on
that
side
of
it
that
it
wouldn't
be
any
cost
factor
on
that
portion
of
it.
B
Thank
you,
chair,
just
a
quick
question
for
miss.
Ms
johnson.
You
know
thank
you
gianna
for
for
all
the
efforts
you
continue
to
to
push
forward.
I
know
it's
I
feel
like
for
me
anyways
when
we
look
at
the
numbers,
you
know
extrapolated
out
over
the
next
10
years
what
we
need.
I
guess
my
two
questions
are
you
know
how
how
doable
is
it
for
us
as
a
city
to
accomplish
that
goal?
Number
one
number
two.
B
C
Well,
I
would
just
say
councilman
saccharin.
Those
are
excellent
questions
and
part
of
the
reason.
Matt
came
forward
with
the
numbers
a
few
months
ago,
which
we're
glad
to
share
again
was
to
give
you
all
a
good
sense
of
what
the
need
was
and
where
we
are
in
relation,
we
do
have
or
we're
anticipating
additional
funding
from
fianlu.
C
The
bond,
the
general
obligation
bond,
the
council
and
the
the
residents
of
the
city
of
charleston,
approved
back
in
2017,
was
an
excellent
source.
I
know
that
comes
with
repayment
obligations
to
the
city,
but
I
will
just
say
the
flexibility
of
that
and
the
ability
to
leverage
those
dollars
were
critical.
C
They
don't
come
with
the
same
requirements
as
our
federal
dollars,
although
our
federal
dollars
have
been
great,
so
I
have
thrown
that
out
to
both
council
and
I've
thrown
it
out
to
our
leadership
at
bfrc
for
us
to
possibly
consider
looking
at
another
bond
allocation
for
our
community,
and
I
would
say
to
us
when
we
think
about
that
bond:
it
leveraged
a
hundred
million.
It
was
a
20
million
dollar
bond,
it
leverage
100
million
dollars
and
we
anticipate
somewhere
around
500
plus
units.
Naturally,
that's
all
rental.
C
Ideally,
if
we're
able
to
do
it
again,
I
am
hopeful
that
somehow
we're
able
to
include
a
for
sale
component
in
there,
so
I
think
we
can
do
it,
but
council
member
sacrament,
it
takes
funding
and
it
takes
partners
to
do
it.
I
feel
like
we
have
a
good
partnership
base,
so
if
we
can
work
in
in
those
realms
with
the
partners
with
the
funding
with
our
improved
processes
within
the
city,
that'll
get
us
at
least
you
know
halfway
there
as
it
relates
to
charleston
county.
C
The
initial
indications
were
that
they
did
not
have
the
plan
that
was
promised
that
could
show
them
how
to
strategically
move
that
forward
and
thus
they
are
not,
and
so
as
far
as
charleston
county,
we
do
not
receive
any
direct
support
for
affordable
housing.
I
know
that,
with
their
most
recent
arpa
allocation
of
about
20
million,
they
are
looking
at
funding
various
projects.
In
fact,
I
know
several
groups
that
work
in
the
city
have
requested
funding
from
charleston
county
to
facilitate
activities,
west
ashley
and
other
places.
C
I
B
A
B
B
I'm
inside
something,
okay,
sorry,
one
additional
question
chair,
thank
you
so
gianna
you
mentioned
potentially
having
the
city
initiate
that
put
that
on
on
on
the
ballot.
Would
that
not
make
sense
to
be
doing
that?
I
mean
what
does
that
process
look
like
to
get
that
done
and
who
who
ultimately
drives
that
process
is
that
council
is
that
mayor?
Is
that
well.
C
It
certainly
starts
with
our
cfo
who's
on
having
a
conversation,
but
that
is
driven
by
bond
council
and
then
city
council,
because
you
take
your
direction
from
bond
council.
But
bond
council
is
conferring
with
our
cfo
to
make
sure
in
fact
that
the
city
understands
that
obligation
and
can
meet
that
obligation.
Then
there's
an
approval
process
that
you
all
institute
and
then
it
is
put
out
for
the
voters.
A
Thank
you,
okay.
So,
since
the
last
two
bonds
that
what
the
bond
that
was
issued,
I
was
there
when
it
was
issued
and
I
got
out
along
with
my
little
campaign
team,
I
used
when
I
usually
run
for
re-election
and
had
them
to
go
out
to
canvas
the
whole
particular
area
in
the
peninsula
to
assist
them
in
trying
and
and
letting
them
know
what
we're
was
trying
to
do
so
far
as
affordable
housing
and
to
to
vote
on
that
bond
issue,
and
that's
part
of
those
that
barnes
should
really
pass.
A
They
went
came
out
big
time
and
passed
both
of
them
because
otherwise
it
wouldn't
have
been
done
because
the
education
part
of
it,
you
have
to
make
sure
that
they
understand
what
it
what
it
was
all
about,
and
the
first
bond
that
the
issue
that
I
think
was
10
million
dollars.
I
think
the
people
they
wasn't
satisfied
with
that
particular
one.
I
think
constantly
pearl
might
remember.
A
He
might
have
been
counsel
at
the
time,
but
he
remember
people
didn't
like
it
because
they
said
it
was
going
to
be
for
affordable
housing,
but
I
think
the
housing
authority
got
most
of
that
money.
They
purchased
some
things
and
it
didn't
go
the
way
that
we
planned
it.
So
the
second
bond
we
made
sure
that
it
was
handed
a
little
differently
if
you
made
and
that's
how
that
came
about
and
councilman
pal
alluded
to
the
same
thing
that
ms
johnson
was
talking
about
so
far.
A
G
You
know,
I
think,
we've
reached
the
point
where
y'all
are
all
saying
the
stuff
that
I
want
to
say,
and
it's
beautiful.
I
feel
like
I'm
I'm
starting
to
kind
of
make,
make
some
inroads
here
with
some
of
this
and
it's
an
all
in
above
approach.
As
you
said,
chairman
mitchell
and
gian
is
doing
a
tremendous
job
in
her
department
and
everybody
else
in
her
department
leveraging
these
dollars.
G
I
mean
just
to
sort
of
fuel
the
furnace
of
our
department.
Over
here
I
mean
the
county:
does
certain
things
that
the
city
of
charleston
can't
do
and
vice
versa,
and
I
think
most
people
would
agree
that
you
know
affordable
housing
makes
a
whole
lot
of
sense,
downtown
next
to
employment,
centers
next
to
infrastructure
things
of
that
nature.
So
it's
not
like
you
know,
and
that's
where
the
need
is
so
I
think
I'd
like
to
see
a
lot
more.
G
You
know
intergovernmental
communication
coordination
between
the
city,
the
county
shoot,
maybe
even
the
school
district
I
mean
I
you
know
at
a
certain
point.
You
know
affordable
housing
for
teachers
and
things
of
that
nature
is
going
to
become
an
issue
because
the
region's
really
got
some
major
challenges
and
we're
beginning
to
say
a
lot
of
the
right
things,
and
it's
very
encouraging
for
me
to
hear-
and
I
I
look
forward
to
being
a
part
of
that
solution
with
with
everybody.
A
Yes-
and
I
spoke
with
some
of
the
county
council
members-
you
know
that
I
know
of
I
know
a
couple
of
them
and
and
I,
when
they
was
talking
about
this
one
I
said
well,
you
all
have
never
done
it.
If
you
get
with
the
city
of
charleston,
we
can
kind
of
help
you
guide
through
it,
because
we
have
been
doing
it
a
long
time
and
they
say
that's
a
good
idea.
A
That's
a
good
idea,
that's
what
we
might
do
and
when
I
heard
again
you
know
didn't
happen
so
because
they
they
also
had
this
property
on
our
on
on
morrison
drive
that
you
know
all
that
they
are
on
you
see
and
and
then
they
had
this
dilemma,
but
they
was
going
to
do
with
the
joseph
paul
joseph
floyd
manor.
So
so
they
got
you
know.
A
That
way,
and
that's
one
thing
they
said
well,
a
couple
of
council
county
council
members
said:
yes,
that'd
be
a
good
idea
and
to
work
with
it.
But
then
I
don't
know
what
happened
after
that.
You
know.
So
that's
where
it
stands.
You
know.
I
think
we
would
need
a
motion
on
this
to
send
this
to
council.
A
J
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
very
much
I'll
be
giving
a
powerpoint
before
I
do
that.
I
want
to
thank
councilman
saccharon
for
bringing
this
item
of
discussion
to
city
council.
Since
then
it's
sparked
dialogue
and
communications
across
some
city
departments,
all
who
have
some
type
of
role
with
dealing
with
these
vacants.
J
J
J
In
2010,
when
we
took
over,
we
were
approximately
around
500
vacant
structures
down
to
200
to
the
day.
Liveability
officers
are
responsible
for
monitoring
vacant
structures
and
enforcing
the
minimum
standards
ordinance
regarding
property,
maintenance
and
preservation.
So
so
what
we
do?
The
officers
basically
ensure
that
structures
are
boarded
they're,
watertight,
they're,
secured
from
public
access.
J
It
shall
be
free
of
litter
and
overgrowth
graffiti
and
derelict
vehicles
and
the
property
shall
be
posted
with
no
trespassing
sites
to
deter
criminal
activity.
So
a
couple
of
approaches
we
take.
We
take
a
criminal
approach
when
we're
dealing
with
these
these
vacant
houses
to
try
to
get
some
resolution
to
them.
So
basically,
livability
officers
conduct
inspections
of
the
properties
and
they
determine
if
a
violation
exists
and
I'll
tell
you
that
it
is
a
repetitive
process
trying
to
keep
these
vacants
boarded
and
clean
of
litter
and
things
of
that
nature.
J
If
the
owner
or
agent
fails
to
comply
after
the
warning,
a
court
summons
is
issued
and
we
obviously
go
to
liveability
court.
A
couple
things
happen
there.
The
judge
can
order-
and
this
is
when
they
do
not
comply
with.
What
we
ask
them
to
do.
Judge
can
order
the
the
owner
agent,
agent
or
rectified
deficiencies
can
face
a
fine
or
the
city
can
abate
the
nuisance
and
place
a
lien
on
the
property.
After
we
hire
someone
to
go
on
and
take
care
of
the
deficiencies,
then
we
look.
J
J
We
have
non-probated
estates
that
we
have
to
deal
with.
It
becomes
difficult,
even
with
some
estates,
locating
the
the
rightful
heirs
to
those
properties.
We
have
our
strict
bar
requirements,
both
staff
and
the
the
board
for
financial
constraints
on
both
both
the
property
owner
owners
and
heirs
and
the
city.
J
J
J
We
try
to
maintain
that
that
fabric
and
preserve
that
fabric
of
the
the
residence
keep
it
clean
and,
unfortunately,
it'll
spill
over
to
a
point
of
deer
deterioration
where
the
fire
marshal
it
kind
of
gets
involved.
They
post
the
property
with
the
big
red
x
that
people
see
around
town,
that's
for
the
safety
of
their
firefighters.
J
J
They
have
purview
really
over
the
bar
to
deem
a
structure
to
deteriorate
it
to
the
point
that
it
must
be
demolished
for
public
safety
reasons.
So
so
what
what
are
some
solutions?
We're?
Looking
at
now
a
couple
of
things
we
want
to
reactivate
the
code
enforcement
board.
Now
this
board
has
been
on
the
the
city.
J
Ordinances
for
many
years
has
not
been
activated
since
I've
been
dealing
with
livability
since
20
2002
and
even
several
years
before
that
the
intent
of
that
board
was
to
deal
with
vacant
structures
for
one
and
to
deal
with
any
issues
that
that
code
enforcement
officers
were
having
with
any
type
of
code
infraction.
So
we're
going
to
look
at
this
we're
looking
at
it
now.
Probably
code
enforcement
is
so
across
the
board
if
you
will,
from
new
construction
to
all
kind
of
safety
codes.
J
J
It
will
also
be
an
appeals
board
for
the
rental
registration
process
if
the
the
or
when
the
landlords
receive
points
against
their
their
license
and
y'all
heard
a
little
bit
about
that.
The
other
night.
This
board
will
be
made
up
of
citizens,
okay
and
citizens
that
are
knowledgeable
with
the
aspects
of
construction,
housing
and
community
development.
J
So
we
want
to
look
at
it
as
an
education
board
as
well,
that
can
facilitate
with
the
expertise
that
are
on
that
board
to
assist
these
these
family
members
or
of
these
properties
that
just
find
it
nearly
impossible
to
deal
with.
So
that
is
basically
it.
I
will
stop
sharing
and
come
back
to
life
here.
That's
it
in
an
overview,
but
anybody
have
any
questions.
A
All
right,
thank
you,
dan.
For
that
anyone
have
any
questions.
I
can
tell
you.
One
thing
that
I
know
of
air's
property
is
rough.
I
think
councilman
the
pelton
table
airs
property,
airs
property,
you
can
have
a
millionaires
and,
and
they
don't
get
along
half
the
time
and
that
caused
a
whole
lot
of
problem,
and
another
problem
is
that
a
lot
of
them
have
never
done
a
probate.
They
don't
even
know
what
probate
is
all
about.
A
They
just
property
is
there
sitting
there
appropriate,
have
never
been
done
so
nothing
to
be
done
with
the
property.
At
that
point
and
they're
fighting
among
themselves,
you
can't
find
the
heirs,
because
someone's
living
in
california
someone's
might
living
in
africa
somewhere
or
someone's
living
someplace
else.
So
that's
a
lot
of
problems
you
find
with
some
of
these
houses.
That's
in
these
communities.
A
You
know
somebody
might
still
be
paying
your
taxes
on
it,
but
that's
about
it
and
they
and
no
one
is
coming
together
to
say,
let's
go
and
do
what
we
need
to
do
with
these
properties.
So
it's
so
hard
with
that
and
even
the
property
that
councilman
sacrament,
I
think
they
saw
on
king
street
those
three
freeman
colleges.
That's
on
king
street,
three
or
four
colleges
on
king
street.
Those
property
was
owned
by
this
gentleman.
A
A
So
a
lot
of
people
who
wanted
it
wasn't
going
to
move
it
in
the
city
of
charleston.
It
was
going
to
move
it
wherever
they
can
find
properties
that
you
know
they
have
already
somewhere
else.
So
that's
why
he
couldn't
get
rid
of
the
property
there
and
the
property
is
sit
there.
So
all
he
did
was
borders
the
properties
up
to
secure
it
that
way-
and
that
was
part
of
what's
happening
with
those
properties
on
king
street.
A
Those
are
cars
that
you
see
on
king
street,
so
I
don't
know
just
loosening
it
with
dandelion
is
trying.
I
I
it
was
a
good
thing.
What
they're
trying
to
do-
and
I
hope
it's
successful,
but
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
lot
and
I
think
I
think
councilman
pal
deal
with
a
lot
of
this
every
day
from
summit
some
instances
in
some
small
instance,
but
it's
it's
not
an
easy
task,
sometimes
dealing
with
properties
that
way,
even
when
you're
talking
about
demolition
for
neglect
and
also
with
the
properties
there.
A
If
you
have
historical
beams
in
the
houses
and
all
this,
then
they
say
you
can't
tear
it
down.
You
can't
do
this,
so
it's
a
lot
of
different
different
hoops
that
they're
trying
to
jump
through
even
to
eliminate
the
property,
and
that's
why
I
told
them
one
time
I
needed
to
build
those
below
all
of
them
down.
They
say:
oh
no,
you
can't
do
that.
Council
mitchell,
I
said.
A
Well,
you
know
I
would
rather
have
a
clear
property
next
to
me
and
someone
keeping
it
clean
than
having
the
house
falling
down
on
me
when
you
had
to
fix
your
houses
up,
but
these
are
the
things
that
we
are
running
through
in
this
particular
city.
So
I
hope
with
the
what
they're
talking
about
that.
It
might
be
a
success
and
might
help
anybody
have
any
questions.
B
B
So
when
I
look
at
those
contributing
factors,
could
you
could
you
isolate
a
few
that
we
could
focus
and
prioritize
right
now
our
efforts
on?
Is
it
bar
demo?
Is
it
the
property
which
one
is
it
I
mean?
Obviously,
we
can't
focus
on
everything,
so
I'm
a
big
believer
in
prioritizing
of
which
ones
we
can
really
focus
our
efforts
on.
I
think
the
second
part
is
if
you
could
just
talk
and
a
little
bit
about
when
the
fire
department
or
when
the
fire
marshal
deems
something.
B
J
H
Then
the
next
step
up
as
dan
had
in
his
slide
is
the
building
official
deems
in
an
imminent
hazard
at
the
point
that
the
building
official
designates
a
building
in
imminent
hazard.
That's
when
it
circumvents
any
other
demolition
provision
and
he
can
order
the
building
demolished.
We
just
dealt
with
a
case
where
the
building,
unfortunately,
the
contractor,
didn't
secure
it
properly
when
trying
to
prepare
some
renovations.
And
now
it's
a
it's,
a
potential
imminent
hazard
to
fall
on
a
neighboring
building,
so
the
building
official
has
declared
it
an
imminent
hazard.
H
B
B
H
No,
so
for
the
fire
marshal
it
supersedes
for
entry,
so
they're
making
the
fire
marshal
is
making
a
judgment
based
on
whether
the
building
is
safe
for
entry
for
their
operations.
In
case
there
is
a
fire
they're,
not
the
fire
marshal
is
not
the
one
making
the
call
about
the
structural
integrity.
In
terms
of
that,
it's
an
imminent
hazard
that
can't
be
resolved.
Nothing,
nothing
in
an
x,
designation
by
the
fire
marshal
means
that
the
building
can't
be
rehabbed
and
brought
back
to
productive
use.
H
That
would
be
the
thing
that
the
fire
are,
that
the
building
official
that's
their
determination
when
they
determine
that
it's
an
imminent
hazard.
That
means
there's
no
remedy.
At
this
point.
The
building
has
to
come
down
for
general
life
safety
beyond
just
the
building
itself.
The
the
fire
marshal
is
rating
that
building
as
no
no
entry
at
that
point
for
for
life,
safety
professionals.
B
So
I'm
going
to
request
chairman
if
I
would
like
to
hear
from
our
building
folks,
I
think
this
is
a
critical
point.
I
think
a
lot
of
these
structures
and
that
we
see
walking
down
the
street
from
from
the
general
public's
perception,
they're,
clearly
dilapidated.
Clearly,
no
one
lives
than
them.
I
guess
I
would
like
to
better
understand
what
makes
a
building
you
know
so,
structurally
unsound,
that
it's
a
life
safety
issue
and
is
that
some
discretionary
is
there?
Is
there
a
criteria?
B
Is
there
a
rubric
that
that
our
building
folks
use
to
basically
say
if
it's
got
this
this
and
this
then
it's
in
this
category,
because
there
are
some
structures.
I
see
particularly
my
neighborhood,
that
the
rehab
on
that
would
be
so
much
in
so
much
effort.
I'm
not
sure
it's
worth
it.
So
I
guess
I'm
just
trying
to
understand
from
a
building
perspective
building
inspections.
I
B
A
That's
that
would
be
a
problem.
You
can
the
next
constant,
miss
johnson
to
make
sure
that
we
can
get
in
touch
with
the
building
inspector
and
have
them
on
the
next
cd
committee
meeting
for
presentation
and
also
when
I,
if
it's
still
in
existence,
I
remember
being
on
council
so
long
that,
even
if
the
house
looks
like
it's
bad,
but
they
figure,
the
structure
is
still
good.
A
The
the
the
homeowner
our
owner
would
have
to.
If
they
want
to
this,
have
this
house
torn
down
or
demolished,
they
would
have
to
hire
their
own
engineer
to
do
it
and
that
that
would
have
to
go
before
the
committee
and
the
committee's
still
going
to
make
a
decision
if
they
feel
that
this
is
the
case
or
not.
Is
that
still
correct?
A
J
Basically,
you
are
you're
in
the
right
direction,
so
basically
there
is
a
process
to
prove
that
the
if
the
structure
is
is
not
correct.
So
that
would
involve
structural
engineer
reports
and
things
of
that
nature.
Then
it
would
involve
going
to
bar
staff
and
then
up
level
to
the
bar
the
whole
bar
to
determine.
J
If
this
structural
engineer
report,
you
know,
fits
their
criteria,
or
can
this
house
be
rehabilitated
back
to
its
general?
You
know
intended
purpose.
So,
yes,
you're
in
the
right
mind
the
the
if
the
homeowner
wants
to
do
that
they
would
have
to
pay
for
that
themselves.
All
that
would
be
on
them
when
the
city
takes
action.
A
That's
why
I
remember
a
couple
of
times
I
had
to
be
on
council.
I
had
some
people
that
the
the
house
had
looked
so
bad
that
they
knew
what
caused
the
cost
back.
There
was
been
so
much,
but
for
them
to
rehab
it
and
they
wanted
to
say
well,
it'd
be
best
to
tear
it
down
and
rebuild,
but
when
they
did,
they
had
to
go
get
the
structural
engineer
when
they
did
the
structural
engineering
and
when
the
when
they
checked
they
said
no,
they
they
can't
do
it.
A
They
said
this
structure
is
still
good,
so
they
were
turned
down.
They
couldn't
tear
the
house
down.
So
that's
another
thing,
that's
a
number
something
else
that
we
have
to
go
through,
because
the
cost
factor
for
them
to
try
to
rehab
the
house.
They
couldn't
afford
and
they
know
they
couldn't
afford
it,
because
the
house
had
cost
at
that
time,
almost
250
000
or
225
thousand
dollars
to
rehab.
A
So
they
figured
with
the
house
falling
down
and
everything
they
can
go
ahead
and
tear
down,
and
they
said
no,
no,
you
can't
tear
it
down,
so
they
had
to
hire
their
own
structural
engineer
and
when
they
get
hired
them,
took
it
downtown.
They
still
couldn't
they
still
said.
No,
the
structure
is
still
good
found
is
still
good.
You
cannot
tear
it
down.
So
that's
another
thing
that
you
know
some
of
the
people
have
to
go
through
too.
So
it's
not
as
easy
as
we
think
it
is.
It's
very
difficult,
sometimes
any
other
questions.
I
I
I
I
honestly
didn't
expect
this
conversation
to
get
this
far
into
this,
because
I
actually
took
a
lot
of
mr
summerfield's
day
today
regarding
an
instance
of
this,
so
I
know
that
y'all
keep
talking
about
bar
and
you're
talking
about
downtown
a
lot,
but
you
know
I.
I
certainly
spent
a
lot
of
time
this
morning
talking
about
a
situation
on
james
island,
so
this
is
very
much
a
reality,
and
so,
when
you
say
bar,
we
still
have
all
these
acronyms
drb.
I
I
think
councilmember
waring
also
brought
this
up
at
council
correct
and
that
we
were
going
to
put
on
a
future
agenda
right
regarding
drb,
but
I
think
this
all
goes
hand
in
you
know
I
I
really-
and
I
was
actually
going
to
ask
y'all
after
you
know,
at
the
end
of
the
meeting
with
any
miscellaneous
business,
because
I
won't
go
deep
into
this.
The
situation
on
james
island,
but
we
are
essentially
preventing
someone
from
correcting
the
problem
that
you're
speaking
of
council
member
saccharin
right.
I
You
know,
so
I
I
certainly
once
again
we
always
talk
about
process,
and
this
is
definitely
you
know,
everything's
new
for
me,
but
it's
it's
certainly
seen
over
here
on
james
island
as
well.
So
I
just
I
just
want
to
make
that
clear
and
that's
why
I
do.
I
certainly
want
to
hear
more
from
the
depart.
You
know
the
like.
You
said
councilmember
sacrament
from
the
building
department,
this
situation,
unfortunately
they
were
just
denied
at
drb.
So
time
is
of
the
essence
I
mean
I'm.
I
A
G
G
You
know
it's
long
been
my
understanding
under
south
carolina
law
that
the
building
inspector
actually
has
the
authority
to
override
and
short-circuit
the
entire
bar
process,
but
I
can
tell
you
that
that
rarely,
if
ever
happens
in
the
city
of
charleston,
we're
extraordinarily
deferential
to
our
bar
and
I
get
it
I
get
it.
I
mean
that
we're
a
historic
city
when
you're
talking
we
want
to
go
to
the
moon
before
we
have
to
tear
down
a
structure.
I
get
it.
G
I
mean
it's
just
a
different
animal,
and
maybe
we
just
need
to
strike
that
balance
a
little
bit
differently
in,
in
a
very
case
by
case
determination,
I
mean,
when
you've
got
structures
that
are
falling
on
other
structures.
You've
got
structures
that
pose
a
life
and
health
hazard
to
our
firefighters.
G
You
know
it
just
becomes
a
different
situation,
and
maybe
one
of
the
things
we
ought
to
be
looking
at
is
empowering
our
building.
You
know
inspections.
Department
to
you
know,
get
a
little
bit
more
aggressive,
I'm
not
talking
about
just
steamrolling
the
bar
on
every
single
application
that
comes
through
I'm
just
saying,
maybe,
instead
of
having
the
slider
all
the
way
over
here,
maybe
we
have
it
over
here.
You
know
for
the
worst
of
the
worst
situations
that
we
can
proactively
target.
G
So
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
flag
that
and
I
look
forward
to
hearing
more
from
the
building
inspector,
maybe
an
upcoming
meeting
along
the
lines
of
what
council
member
saccharin
mentioned.
The
other
thing
I
would
say
is
that,
and
I'm
glad
to
have
seen
this
in
mr
riccio's
presentation
is
ayers.
Property
lies
at
the
heart
of
a
lot
of
these
problems
like
it
like
it
does
several
other
issues
and
I'm
gonna
plug
my
ayers
property
idea
that
I
floated
at
cd
a
couple
months
ago.
G
This
is
you
know,
modeled.
After
what
philadelphia
has
done
and
some
other
cities
have
done.
David
slade
wrote
a
great
story
in
the
post
and
courier
several
months
ago
about
this,
where
essentially,
we
can,
as
the
city
can
help
subsidize
the
title.
Clearing
process
for
ayers
property
owners
who
have
been
responsible,
who've
lived
in
the
property
paid
the
taxes
they're
part
of
the
community.
They
want
to
live
here.
G
It's
costly
to
clear
your
title
right.
You
got
to
hire
a
lawyer
to
do
it.
It
costs
us
what
300
400
500
000
to
build
a
new
unit
of
affordable
housing.
Well,
what
if
we
could
kick
an
eligible
family
member
five
grand
10
grand
through
the
centers
for
air
prepares
property.
You
know
to
clear
the
title
put
these
folks
in
a
position
where
they
can
actually
own
the
property.
If
we
need
help
to,
you
know
subsidize
the
buy
out
of
the
other
heirs
or
all
these
other
things.
G
We
can
talk
about
how
how
all
that
works,
but
at
least
then
you
get
the
property
in
a
position
where
it
begins
to
make
economic
sense
to
do
the
sort
of
investments
into
the
property
that
you
need
to
have
to
rectify
some
of
these
most
more
extreme
conditions.
So
you
don't
have
to
get
to
what
I
was
just
talking
about.
Where
the
building
inspector
comes
in
and
says:
look
you
know
we're
just
at
the
end
of
the
line.
There's
just
no
other
options
here.
This
is
a
this
is
a
disaster.
G
G
Moving
that
slider
over
a
little
bit,
sometimes
based
upon
you,
know
a
unique
situation
or
two
and
just
making
sure
that
we
chart
the
right
path
because
it's
it's
it's
sad
to
you,
know,
drive
up
king
street
or
elsewhere
and
see
some
of
these
dilapidated
structures
in
the
number
one
city
in
the
world.
I
mean
it's
just
it's
just
a
failure.
It's
it's
just
sad
from
an
aesthetic
perspective.
It's
sad
from
a
you
know:
property
ownership,
equity
perspective.
G
I
mean
it's
just
these
are
problems
that
we've
got
to
be
much
more
active
in
terms
of
solving.
So
I'm
glad
that
this
conversation's
been
brought
forward.
It's
a
very
important
one
and
I
look
forward
to
continuing
to
talk
about
options,
but,
let's
think
about
those
airs,
property
grants
and
ways.
We
can
leverage
our
limited,
affordable,
housing
funds
to
reach
the
goals
that
we're
trying
to
reach.
I
mean
we
can
help,
keep
some
somebody
in
their
property
for
ten
fifteen
thousand
dollars
versus
building
a
new
unit
for
five
hundred.
G
A
All
right,
this
is
going
to
be
an
ongoing
ongoing
conversation.
I'll
say
that
so
it's
not
going
to
stop
here
any
other
questions.
We
will
take
that
as
information
and
we'll
move
on,
we'll
bring
it
back
from
the
building
inspector
come
at
the
next
meeting
cd
meeting
and
then
we'll
have
more
questions.
H
While
this
issue
has
been
something
that's
actually
been
on
the
department's
to-do
list
to
take
a
hard
look
at
things
like
this
honestly,
since
I
got
here
a
little
over
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
or
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago
now
you
know
it's,
it's
been
something:
that's
obviously
the
councilman's
been
passionate
about
and
he's
been
continuing
to
light
a
light
of
fire
under
our
feet
here
to
continue
to
press
it
forward.
So
I
want
to
thank
him
for
that.
H
I
don't
know
assurance
to
the
committee
and
just
the
council
members
at
large,
that
you
know
we.
We
are
hearing
everything
y'all
are
saying
when
we
are
working
very
diligently
with
with
our
boards,
our
commissions
and
and
the
community
and
the
different
stakeholder
groups
on
how
we
can
address
these
things.
H
I'm
going
to
show
you
the
vast
majority
of
the
properties
in
what
we're
now
calling
group
2
in
this
north
of
line
area
will
be
accommodated
under
the
proposed
policy
for
a
staff
level
review
of
those
replacement
elements
provided
that
they're.
You
know,
meeting
meeting
that
criteria,
another
big
one
that
we
heard
from
the
committee
and
we've
heard
since
then,
and
it's
really
never
been
a
part
just
because
it's
sometimes
difficult
to
wrap
your
hands
around.
This
particular
piece
is:
how
do
we
address
the
difference?
H
Because
one
of
the
things
that's
been
very
clear
is
that
there's
a
a
healthy
portion
of
properties,
north
of
line
that
have
been
bought
by
investors
and
are
being
attempted
for
flips
and
things
like
that,
but
there's
also
a
pretty
significant
element
that
is
owned
in
that
group
that
you
all
have
been
talking
about
now
for
a
little
while
the
ayers
properties
or
legacy
property
owners.
Folks
who've
held
their
home
councilman
mitchell.
You've
talked
about
this
quite
a
bit
about
the
folks.
H
H
Then,
even
if
you're
in
group,
one
you're
going
to
get
moved
to
group
two
for
purposes
of
evaluating
your
project
for
consideration
of
the
staff
review
and
the
additional
flexibility
in
terms
of
those
materials,
we've
also
taken
a
closer
look
in
the
policy
where
you
know
a
big
part
of
the
conversation
has
been
more
on,
and
I
think
this
is
maybe
a
something
you
know
we
in
the
the
profession
have
not
done
the
best
job
of
clarifying
that
historic
preservation
is
not
just
the
building.
This
is
our
built
history.
H
This
is
what
it
has
meant
for
us
as
a
community
as
a
people.
These
aren't
just
buildings
and
wood
and
what
have
you?
These
are
actually
the
experiences
that
have
gone
into
this.
So
the
other
element
of
the
policy
is
we
we've
tried
to
place
a
better
emphasis,
not
just
on
the
historic
nature
from
you
know,
the
structure
itself
is
50
years
old
or
what
have
you,
but
also
the
cultural
context
and
the
cultural
significance
of
of
the
the
district
and
the
in
the
building?
And
what
have
you?
So?
H
These
are
kind
of
again
just
to
really
recap,
because
I
know
mr
chairman
and
others
have
another
committee
meeting
here
at
five,
so
I
wanna
not
take
an
over
abundance
of
time
on
this.
But
again
this
this
table
kind
of
just
really
reflects
where
the
policy
has
been
responsive.
I
think
to
what
we've
heard
from
the
committee
previously
and
what
we've
heard
in
subsequent
conversations
with
council
members,
I
wanna
and
we
we
took
it
to
the
next
step,
so
we
really
wanted
to
take
a
look.
H
Each
of
these
properties
had
made
a
request.
Most
of
these
were
category
four,
although
we
did
have
a
category
three
property
that
were
denied
by
the
board
for
the
proposed
change
that
they
were
looking
for
under
the
policy
and
under
the
applicability.
Not
only
would
they
be
able
to
move
forward
with
their
project
with
the
change
in
policy,
but
they'd
be
able
to
move
forward
with
their
projects
with
a
staff
review
and
not
require
the
formal
board,
review
and
and
public
hearing
element
of
that.
H
H
20
30
40
50
years
from
now,
not
just
the
folks
who've
got
to
enjoy
and
experience
those
buildings
and
then
finally,
on
this
topic,
I
just
want
to
show
you
the
map,
so
you
can
see
the
impact
of
this
policy
change
so
on
the
map
you'll
see.
So
all
the
red
is
group
one.
These
are
the
properties
that
have
the
highest
element
of
contributing
factors
to
the
historic
neighborhoods
in
historic
districts,
and
so
those
are
in
the
group
one.
H
Those
still
do
have
a
higher
threshold
if
you
would
on
their
review
but
see
the
sea
of
blue.
These
are
all
the
properties
that
again
would
fall
now
into
this
group
two,
and
even
some
of
these
group
ones
again
if
they
meet
that
legacy
property
owner
or
that
ami
criteria,
even
some
of
these
reds
would
then
turn
blue
if
you
would
for
purposes
of
the
policy
change
evaluation.
H
So
this
is
what
we've
been
working
on.
This
has
been
a
process:
councilman
sacrament.
As
you
know,
this
has
been
something
we've
been
working
on
and
at
times
it's
felt
like
we.
We
should
have
had
this
done
by
now,
and-
and
I
don't
necessarily
disagree
with
that-
but
it's
been
a
process-
we've
been
working
very
closely
with
community
members
and
stakeholders
on
this,
but
I
believe,
in
absence
of
some
substantial
objection
this
afternoon,
that
we
are
in
a
place
where
we
can
put
this.
I
currently
have
the
team.
H
This
will
be
formally
presented
as
a
up
for
adoption
to
the
both
the
bar
large
and
the
bar
small
at
their
meetings
next
week,
so
this
will
be
on
their
agenda
for
them
to
adopt
this
policy
per
year.
Preservation
ordinance,
the
bar,
in
addition
to
the
ordinance
itself,
can
adopt
policies
to
help
achieve
the
goals
and
objectives
of
the
city,
council,
the
preservation
ordinance
and
our
comprehensive
plan,
and
so
this,
I
believe,
like
I
said,
is
a
good
policy
for
them
to
adopt.
H
We
have
been
working
with
them
as
well,
so
we,
the
the
board,
have
been
involved
in
this
process
in
a
advisory
capacity,
and
so
again
we
are
presenting
our
bar
staff
will
be
presenting
this
policy
formally
at
both
boards
next
week.
My
hope
is
that
they
will
have
a
really
good
discussion
and
that
they
will
adopt
them
next
week.
If
not,
they
may
carry
that
conversation
over
for
another
meeting
into
september,
but
that
is
where
we're
at
right
now
and
I'd
be
happy
to
try
to
answer
any
questions.
H
A
I
Thank
you,
mr
chair
chairman,
so
I
know
it's
we're
a
little
late
in
the
game
but
like
we
did
like
I
was
just
saying
so
bar
and
drb.
These
are
two
different.
This
policy
change
is
only
going
to
be
for
bar
we're
not
looking
at
anything
with
drb,
even
though
they
kind
of
hold
some
of
the
same
weight,
because
we're
we're
focusing
obviously
more
on
downtown
correct.
Mr
chairman,.
A
H
But
with
that
in
mind
councilman,
so
there
is
a
slight
difference
in
the
jurisdiction
on
the
demo
so
yeah.
So
this
north
line
is
a
little
bit
more
of
an
involved
level
of
protection
and
scrutiny
given
under
the
bar
preservation
ordinance,
the
drb
in
the
in
the
context
of
the
conversation
we
were
having
this
morning.
H
I
I
I
A
H
A
A
You
know
and
see
I
had
10
roof
one
time,
but
mike
went
back
to
1989
when
he
will
came
through
and
messed
it
up,
but
I
went
back
with
singles
at
the
time
because
the
the
br
wasn't
in
this
area
that
during
that
time,
otherwise
the
br
this
area
at
that
time,
I
would
not
have
been
able
to
do
it.
So
I
just
put
another
single
roof
in
my
house
last
year:
30
year,
architecture
single,
but
but
she
is
there
next
door
and
she
cannot
do
it.
H
E
B
I
You
know
and
not
like
to
neighborhoods
at
large,
like
it
does
on
the
peninsula
and
in
fact
the
reverse
situation
can
happen:
west
ashley,
james
island,
other
parts
of
the
city
off
the
peninsula.
This
morning,
at
my
coffee
with
the
mayor,
a
couple
two
ladies
came
by
and
there's
no
jurisdiction
in
this
west
ashley
neighborhood
for
the
city
to
deny
a
demolition.
I
The
owner
just
wants
to
tear
down
the
house
and
build
something
else.
Well,
they
would
love
to
see
the
house
remain
it's
about
80
year
old
house,
and
it
adds
a
lot
of
character
to
the
neighborhood
and
it's
structurally
sound
and
they
would
like
to
see
it
remain,
but
we
can't
tell
them
no.
So
there
are
now
some
other
areas
and
neighborhoods
who
would
like
to
have
the
city.
You
know
be
more
proactive,
so
the
shoe
is
on
the
other
foot
there.
B
E
H
So
so,
yes,
council,
part
of
the
part
of
the
conversation
at
least
was
you
know
the?
What
is
the
material
exchange
if
you
would
from
the
historic
element
to
what
some
of
the
the
level
of
replacement
materials
are?
And
so
that
is
it's
not
a
pure
economic
thing,
but
it
is
an
anecdotal
analysis
where
we've
looked
at
properties
that
have
used
and
again
it's
not
my
intent
to
you
know,
throw
shade
on
any
particular
building
material.
H
H
Do
does
play
a
part
in
evaluating
the
house,
not
not
just
from
a
pure
financial
step,
but
also
potentially
impacting
its
designation
as
historic
and
therefore
potentially
disrupting
that
designation
of
a
historic
district
or
neighborhood,
which
we
do
have
actual
data
that
shows
that
historic
districts
and
historic
neighborhoods
retain
value
during
times
of
recession.
2008
recession,
if
you
look
nationwide
historic
districts
tended
to
maintain
value
where
many
other
neighborhoods
you
know,
went
through
the
floor.
If
it
would
now
all
those
have,
thankfully
came
back,
but
it
can
have
that
impact
as
well.
E
The
reason
why
I
raised
the
question
is
that
I
think
that
people
need
to
move
forward
and
be
informed,
okay,
that
if
I,
if
I
deviate
from
this-
and
I
go
to
something
totally
different-
that
could
affect
value
not
just
on
their
property,
but
it
could
affect
the
value
in
an
entire
neighborhood,
particularly
if
it's
a
historic
district
in
particular.
Yes,
sir,
it's
just
a
point.
I
wanted
to
be
a
part
of
the
discussion.
B
I
just
want
to
say
I
appreciate
all
the
work,
some
robert
and
tori
and
julia
as
well
as
cash
and
brian
and
sam.
If
you're
still
on.
I
appreciate
the
conversations
it's
been
tremendously
helpful.
It
has
been
a
long
process,
mr
summerfield,
but
I'm
not
in
a
rush.
I
want
to
get
it
right
and
I
feel
like
when
we
do
this
in
2017.
We
probably
should
have
taken
a
deeper
dive
on
some
of
this
and
just
to
get
something
passed.
B
B
But
when
I
look
at,
I
still
look
at
that
diagram
that
you
showed
my
ultimate
question
is:
is
there
an
affordability
to
this?
Still,
so
if
I'm
a
homeowner
and
and
I
still
have
to
go
to
bar,
I
still
have
to
order
staff
and
I'm
still
left
with
the
conundrum
of
having
to
replace
with
a
very
expensive
material
and
I'm
not
talking
about
vinyl
windows.
So
dudley.
I
get
your
point
that
you
know
we
could
replace
something
that
could
devalue
the
home.
I'm
talking
practical
replacements,
for
example
a
wood
window.
B
I'm
not
seeing
that
mr
summerfield
again
miss
parrish
just
sent
me
that
today,
so
I'm
going
to
dig
a
little
bit
deeper
tonight
and
read
it
this
week,
but
I
guess
my
point
is:
I
still
haven't
seen
that
in
in
there.
So
if
you're,
going
from
category
2
3
to
category
2
or
category
two
to
category
three,
does
that
in
itself
create
an
additional
reduce
the
additional
economic
burden?
I'm
still,
I'm
still
stuck
on
that.
H
Now
again,
I
guess
I
got
a
in
all
transparency
and
honesty
to
to
make
it
clear.
While
we
are
looking
at
that
anecdotally
in
the
in
the
about
the
ultimate
evaluation.
Financial
wherewithal
is
not
a
part
of
you
know
to
demo,
or
not
I
mean
that's.
Financial
hardships
traditionally
are
not
something
that
you
can
make
the
deciding
factor
on
which
I
know
it's
not
necessarily
what
you're
asking
I'm
just
making
sure
that
we're
all
clear
on
that
piece
of
it.
H
But
yes,
the
mater
part
of
part
of
this
is
to
create
greater
flexibility
in
the
types
of
materials
that
can
be
used
as
replacement
or
or
repair
material,
and
by
virtue
of
having
that
greater
flexibility
and
more
choices
in
in
that
material.
Creating
opportunity
for
folks
to
maybe
find
something:
that's
at
a
more
affordable
price
point
for
them.
B
Okay,
I'm
going
to
spend
some
more
time
digging
into
this,
and
certainly
look
at
some
of
the
examples
that
you
you
all
have
cited,
but
I
do
want
to
say
thank
you
for
all
the
work
and
the
staff's
work
on
this.
It's
been
a
long
time
and,
like
I
said,
if
it
takes
another
month
or
two
to
get
it
right,
I'm
I'm
gonna,
stick
with
it.
So
thank
you
all.
G
Thank
you
vice
chair
zachary.
I
appreciate
it
so
I've
had
an
opportunity
to
look
over
these
proposals
and
I
definitely
think
that
it's
progress
I
mean
you're,
essentially
providing
more
clarity,
you're,
distinguishing
between
different
categories
of
structures
and
you're,
putting
more
at
the
staff
level
that
all
being
said.
This
is
a
this
is
not
a
paradigm
change
jason.
This
is
a
tweak
of
an
existing
framework
that
that
was
was
put
into
place
in
2017,
not
in
1917..
G
This
is
a
very
new
policy
that
the
city
has
put
into
place
and
what
I'm
hearing
from
your
comments
is
more
of
a
you
know,
a
questioning
of
the
underlying
concepts
and
philosophy.
Behind
this
whole.
You
know
approach
to
begin
with
and-
and
I
think
that's
that's
an
interesting
discussion
to
have,
but
certainly
I
think
this
is
an
improvement.
G
None
of
this
is
a
problem
to
you:
you're
going
to
hire
ls3p
you're,
going
to
hire
the
top
lawyers
you're
going
to
you're
going
to
know
all
of
us
you're
going
to
know
the
people
in
the
bar
and
you're
going
to
sail
through
this
process,
whether
we
change
the
rules
or
we
don't.
Oh
and
oh,
by
the
way
you're
going
to
your
house
is
going
to
look
great
because
you're
super
wealthy
and
you
want
your
house
to
look
great.
G
The
the
issue
here
is
is
not
that
those
those
types
of
folks
those
types-
those
are
the
types
of
folks
who
who
live
in
my
district
right,
so
old,
windermere,
south
windermere,
the
crescent.
You
never
hear
about
horrific
architecture
and
in
in
these
neighborhoods,
with
maybe
some
small
small
exceptions.
It's
because.
G
I
know
I
know
that
someone's
trying
to
tr
someone's
trying
to
demo
eight
stalker
and
that's
what
the
mayor's
talking
about.
That's
an
old
windermere
and
we
don't
have
demolition
purview
in
this
part
of
the
area.
You
know
and
that's
something
we
need
to.
We
need
to
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
in
my
district,
so
the
mayor
is
absolutely
right,
while
we're
talking
about
peeling
some
of
this
stuff
back
on
the
upper
peninsula,
we're
talking
about
putting
it
on
over
in
my
district
and
it's
going
to
be
a
very
interesting.
G
G
You
know
folks
and
african-americans,
so
so
folks
in
my
district,
can
absorb
a
lot
of
this
stuff,
much
much
better,
we're
much
more
like
the
the
hedge
fund.
Guy,
that's
living
by
you
know
hampton
park,
terrace
that
that
has
no
problem
with
any
of
this.
What
makes
north
of
line
street
an
issue
the
reason
I
think
you're
having
these
issues
and
constituents
bringing
these
matters
forward
is
that
there
there's
a
lot
more
diversity
on
a
north
line
right
and
so
these.
G
So
these
rules
land
a
lot
differently,
depending
on
who
they're
being
applied
to
and
to
robert's
point.
You
know
when
you're
trying
to
get
you
know
a
zoning
variance
you're
not
supposed
to
look
at
economic
and
financial
hardship,
which
is
kind
of
a
crazy
situation.
If
you
actually
think
about
why
that's
the
case
and
why
that
was
put
into
the
law
in
the
first
place,
but
put
putting
that
aside
for
a
second,
you
know.
G
I
certainly
think
that
if
we're
going
to
move
forward
with
these
tweaks,
there
needs
to
be
a
massive
public
outreach
and
communication
effort,
because
I
think
a
lot
of
folks
and
I'll
defer
to
the
folks
that
represent
this
area
north
of
line.
But
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
folks
that
just
walk
around
just
resign
to
the
fact
that
there's
just
no
way
you're
ever
getting
through
any
of
these
processes
with
the
city,
it's
just
too
complicated,
too
expensive,
too
unpredictable
and
we're
just
not
going
to
even
try
it.
G
So
if
we're
going
to
you
know
make
these
improvements-
which
I
think
are
it's
better
than
where
we
are,
you
know
we
need
to
make
sure
people
know
about
that,
so
they
can
actually
avail
themselves
of
it
because
it's
still
a
very
complicated
dynamic,
even
if
some
of
the
friction
has
been
taken
out
of
the
of
the
process
with
some
of
these
tweaks.
So
it's
very
interesting
discussion,
very
important
discussion.
G
H
Such
I
mean
again,
like
I
showed
on
the
example.
That's
that's
five
situations
where
you
know
based
on
the
way
things
are
currently
written,
they
were
denied,
but
those
can
be
reevaluated,
because
now
we
believe
they
would
have
been
eligible
to
to
have
to
be
approved
so
100
percent.
That
is
the
direction
that
we
would
be
going
as
soon
as
we
get
this
policy
in
place.
E
But
that
was
the
point
that
I
was
attempting
to
make
when
I
was
talking
about
the
economic
consequences
of
the
actions,
and
I
think
that
that
is
something
that
we
really
really
need
to
hone
in
on,
and
I
think
that
the
way
you
the
way
you
articulated
it
is
much
better
than
the
way
I
have,
and
I
really
appreciate
it
when
you
talk
about
gentrification
and
covenants
on
race
and
what
that
has
done
in
terms
of
wealth,
wealth,
wealth,
denial,
not
wealth
creation.
So
I
think
that
we
really
need
to
be
very
careful.
B
Thank
you,
councilman
gregory,
councilman
mitchell.
You
want
me
to
handle
the
rest
of
this,
or
are
you
good?
I
think
he
said
go
ahead.
I
can
read
lips
last
couple
comments.
I
guess
mr
summer
are
on
my
end
and
if
anyone
else
has
anything
we
can
move
on
quickly
to
the
last
part
of
the
meeting
again.
If
this
takes
some
time
to
continue,
I
want
to
make
sure
that
that
gets
done.
I
think
ross
councilman
appel
articulated.
You
know
my
concerns.
Those
those
have
been
my
concerns
the
whole
time.
B
B
I
want
to
be
able
to
make
the
case
to
to
my
neighbors
to
come
to
me
and
say
you
know
I
can't
afford
to
do
x,
y
and
z
that
this
policy
is
going
to
help
them
right
now.
All
I
see
is
on
the
basic
and
I
haven't
read
it
all
fully.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
you
know
I
preface
that
I
haven't
read
what
tori
sent
to
me.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
that
it's
not
just
being
approved
for
bar
that
wasn't
the
point
of
this.
B
The
point
of
of
this
was
wasn't
making
sure
that
people
get
approval.
The
point
was
that
they
get
approved
and
they
have
a
full
list
and
menu
of
of
options
that
are
affordable
for
them.
That
was
the
goal
of
this.
So
with
that,
we
can
we
can
head
on
to
to
the
next
agenda
item.
I
don't
have
the
agenda
in
front
of
me,
but
I
believe
that
it
was
the
height
district.
Mr
summerfield.
B
H
The
the
last
item
was
just
a
general
update
to
the
the
cd
committee
on
a
couple:
height,
related
height,
district,
related
ordinances,
or
amendments
that
we're
working
on
both
actually
were
encapsulated
in
the
ordinance
amendment
that
was
on
city
council
on
tuesday
for
first
read
the
the
first
one,
and
I
think
a
lot
of
folks
took
a
look
at
that.
Our
first
element
of
that
was
some
amendments
that
we
are
proposing.
H
We've
been
working
for
almost
nine
months
now,
I
think,
on
addressing
an
ongoing
question.
Concern
related
to
the
effectiveness
of
our
two-prong
element,
the
effectiveness
of
the
allowance
for
a
a
merit
finding
by
the
bar
to
allow
an
additional
story
of
height,
but
also
are
rezoning
for
height,
whether
or
not
we
are
including
a
sufficient
analysis.
H
If
you
would
of
the
the
the
reason
for
that
height
change
and
the
consideration
that
the
planning
commission
and
ultimately
the
city
council
should
be
considering
for
approving
a
a
re-zone
for
heights
change.
So
in
that
ordinance,
there's
there's
two
elements
to
it.
The
first
element
removes
the
the
merit
allowance.
H
H
We've
met
with
members
of
the
the
the
ba
air
boards,
architects
who
have
successfully
received
merit
in
their
project
as
well
as
architects
whose
projects
seemed
as
if
they
they
might
have
had
an
interest
in
merit,
but
did
not
pursue,
did
not
pursue
merit
and
based
on
those
conversations,
that's
why
we
proposed
that
kind
of
ultimate
case
of
bringing
forth
the
amendment
that
would
eliminate
the
option
for
merit
as
a
part
of
a
part
of
the
amendment.
Now
in
the
work
that
we
did,
we,
we
do
have
some
options.
H
So
it's
not
as
if
there's
not
some
consideration
for
something
less
than
a
full
removal
of
merit,
and
so
we're
we're
going
to
be
heard
from
council
members
loud
and
clear,
leading
up
to
tuesday
night's
meeting
once
once.
Everyone
was
aware
that
this
amendment
was
on
there
we're
going
to
be
talking
more
about
some
of
those
other
options
so
that
there
is
some
opportunity
for
some
compare
and
contrast
conversations.
H
I'm
hopeful
that
most
everyone
can
is
on
board
with
the
idea
of
providing
some
objective
criteria
to
evaluate
a
rezone
for
height
additionally,
because
we're
always
looking
in
the
planning
department
to
support
gianna
and
her
team
in
trying
to
incentivize,
affordable
housing.
You
know
we've
actually
in
this
amendment
we
propose
to
allow
for,
if
you're,
an
affordable
housing
project,
you
can
actually
request.
Well,
normally,
you
may
only
request
an
a
height
increase
to
one
height,
one
height
district.
H
If
you're
an
affordable
housing
project,
you
can
request
to
go
up
two
height
districts
so
again
that
that
provides
an
opportunity
for
additional
height.
Therefore,
arguably
additional
density
there.
So
that's
in
general
that
that
portion
of
the
amendment-
mr
vice
chair,
I
see
councilman
gregory-
has
his
hands
up,
but
we
want
to
go
to
that
before
I
go
into
the
other
height
change
that
we're
proposing
that's
kind
of
different
than
the
the
merit
conversation.
E
Yeah,
mr
mr
chairman,
vice
chairman,
this
one
is
causing
lots
of
calls
to
me
from
folks
south
abroad
and
north
abroad,
west
side.
Folks,
they're
very
concerned
number
one
and
you
correct
me.
If
I'm
wrong,
they
think
that
the
issue
is
serious
enough,
that
it
should
have
some
type
of
public
hearing
they
also.
E
H
H
It
was
suggested
that
we
give
it
to
council
for
first
read
to
establish
the
pending
ordinance
doctrine
and
then
take
it
back
to
planning
commission.
They
would
hold
their
public
hearing
just
like
normal
move.
It
to
city
council
for
a
public
hearing,
bring
it
to
cd
committee
for
a
further
committee
discussion
and
then
work
out
any
amendments
there
before
bringing
a
final
version
to
council
for
council
consideration
on.
H
E
H
E
I
E
H
You
it
would
just
it
would
yes,
it
would
prevent
my
team
from
accepting
applications.
That
would
be
contrary
to
to
what
yes,
so
in
effect,
you're
you're,
absolutely
right,
okay,
so
at
any
rate.
So
the
idea
right
now
is
that
this
would
be
on
the
september
planning
commission
meeting
for
them
to
hold
their
public
hearing
on.
It,
hear
any
objections
at
that
time
related
to
it,
and
then
it
would
come
forward
september
october
for
council
and
and
cd
committee
a
hearing
and
discussion.
H
So
unless
there's
any
object
and
in
the
meantime,
between
now
and
the
planning
commission,
my
team
will
also
be
doing
some
more
public
facing
outreach
before
we've
done
more
focus
groups,
discussions
invitation,
type
things
as
we
were,
trying
to
better
understand
what
we
were
getting
in
terms
of
the
concern.
But
my
my
commitment
here,
which
was
always
the
the
original
plan,
would
be
that
we
would
be
having
more
general
invitation
to
hear
from
folks
to
be
honest,
councilman.
E
H
G
G
I'm
still
not
100
clear,
what's
being
proposed,
I
understand
what
the
objections
are.
I
understand
that
the
historic
groups
have
very
clearly
and
eloquently
articulated
that
from
their
perspective,
they
believe
that
this
additional
story,
that's
being
provided
by
the
bar
pursuant
to
the
ordinance
the
council
adopted
in
2017.
This
was
all
part
of
that
bar
overhaul
post
jasper
that
there's
some
problems
in
that
process,
but
but
what
are
we
proposing?
Taking
that
away
from
the
bar,
making
it
more
objective,
putting
the
power
in
the
hands
of
council?
G
H
I
I
H
Correct,
sir,
so
that's
as
it's
currently
written,
yes,
that
that
would
be
what
would
happen
again
we've
you
know,
so
that's
the
most
councilman
to
use
your
your
continuum
spectrum.
So
that's
our
most
extreme
option.
That
came
out
of
the
discussion,
and
I
would
just
I
obviously
we've
heard
from
the
preservation
groups,
but
I
guess
I
would
want
to
make
sure
that
it
it's
only
fair
to
them,
to
also
put
on
the
record
that
this
is
not
exclusive
to
those
preservation
groups.
H
They
are
not
alone
in
their
concern
about
how
merit
has
ended
up
being
used.
In
some
cases
it's
been
argued,
abused
and
the
lack
of
clarity
around
what
constitutes
merit,
I
think,
has
probably
been
one
of
our
biggest
issues
or
concerns.
If
you
would
around
that-
and
I
know
councilman
we've
got
to
go
because
hark's
about
to
begin,
and
I
think
we'll
lose
quorum
here
because
of
the
folks.
Who've
got
to
do
that.
So
anyway,
we
are
going
to
start
the
public
process.
H
We
will
be
at
planning
commission
for
a
public
hearing
next
week.
We
will
be
talking
about
other
options
that
could
be
considered
if,
if
elimination
of
merit
is
not
something
that
everyone
is
on
board
with,
because
there
were
some
other
options
that
we
considered
in
the
evaluation,
if
you
would,
I
did
have
one
other
thing,
though
real
quick
I
wanted
to
go
through
before
we
cut
off.
If
I
could.
F
A
H
And
then,
finally,
real
quick,
there
was
a
because
of
an
element
that
came
forward
to
planning
commission
in
july.
We
had
actually
because
we
were
trying
to
expedite
getting
it
on
the
books.
We
had
actually
tucked
it
into
the
draft
ordinance
that
was
presented
or
was
to
be
presented
at
city
council
on
tuesday.
H
This
is
about
so
we
we
have
allowances
for
folks
that
are
raising
an
existing
structure
to
to
have
some
height
allowance
when
they're
in
these
flood
zones,
but
for
whatever
reason
we
we
weren't
clear
we
hadn't
provided
for
new
buildings.
So
if
you're
doing
a
new
house,
for
whatever
reason
we
didn't
provide
the
ability
for
you
to
have
the
some
allowance
for
that
raising
of
that
structure
above
flood
plain
and
finish
floor
height.
So
I
just
I
highlight
this.
H
H
E
Okay,
you
know
you
know,
I'm
a
west
side
person
and
some
of
the
buildings
that
are
in
phil
are
towering
over
many
of
the
existing,
and
there
is
con
concern
on
the
west
side
that
the
total
flavor
of
that
area
is
being
changed
as
a
result
of
some
of
our
zoning
requirements,
and
this
one
in
particular,
they're
quite
quite
curious,
and
I
think
we
need
to
talk
to
that
neighborhood
association
and
explain
to
them.
What's
going
on.