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Description
The April 2018 charrette is the first of two design charrettes for the Vallco project. It is a multi-day opportunity for the Cupertino Community to collaborate with a multi-disciplinary team to craft a vision for the Vallco Special Area. This third Brown Bag Lunch Presentation was recorded April 12, 2018 at the Cupertino City Hall EOC. It features a discussion on form-based codes. (1 hr. 35 min.)
A
A
Raise
your
hand
if
I
think
I'm
going
to
answer
it
pretty
close
to
that
and
I'll
just
say,
hang
on
I
think
I'm
gonna
get
two
right
there.
Otherwise,
I'll
answer
your
question.
Okay,
so
the
first
thing
I
just
want
to
point
out
is
that
this,
this
library
shows
two
images
on
the
left
is
a
conventional,
suburban
pattern
where
things
are
intentionally
separated
and
and
it's
a
product
of
regular,
conventional
zoning,
an
intentional
separation.
The
roads
are
big.
A
It's
about
moving
cars
fast,
all
those
kinds
of
things
which
a
lot
of
people
value
very
highly
and
pay
a
lot
of
money
for,
in
our
experience,
the
best
zoning
tool,
for
that
is
what
you,
what
you
could,
what
you
already
have,
what
we
call
conventional
zoning
called
Euclidian
zoning
people
have
tried
to
apply
form
based
zoning
to
these
environments.
Form
based
zoning
was
never
invented
for
these
environments.
It
was
invented
for
what
conventional
zoning
does
not
address,
and
that
is
the
opposite
of
that
pattern.
A
Okay,
in
fact,
early
in
my
career,
we
were
given
some
assignments
for
areas
that
were
essentially
suburban
and
we
didn't
understand
that
what
the
client
really
wanted
was
better
suburban
development
we'd.
Never
that
never
really
made
a
connection
until
we
talked
enough
and
started
drawing
things,
they
said.
What
are
you
doing
with?
We
don't
want
that.
We
want
this
okay,
so
you
know
that's
just
came
to
that
conclusion
pretty
quickly.
A
So
I
just
want
to
start
out
by
saying
that
the
the
vision
that's
being
prepared
for
the
Valco
property,
just
like
for
any
property
in
any
process,
has
to
be
implemented
through
zoning.
It
just
has
to
be
there's
no
other
way.
Zoning
is
going
to
implement
it
and
there
are
three
basic
ways
or
types
of
zoning.
A
The
first
is
what
you
already
have,
which
most
cities
have
in
the
United
States,
which
came
out
a
hundred
years
ago
when
they
invented
zoning
in
the
East
Coast
in
response
to
lack
of
lighten
air
and
and
and
high
concerns,
and
that's
what
we
call
eventually
got
called
Euclidean
zoning
and
we
call
conventional
zoning.
That's
the
first
one
and
the
priority
in
that
system
is
use
yeah.
It
talks
about
height,
talked
about
bulk,
but
it
really
can't
articulate
what
it
means
by
height
and
bulk.
It's
usually
a
maximum,
and
it's
just
it's
a
system.
A
It's
focused
on
use
to
the
detriment
of
a
lot
of
other
important
topics.
The
detriment
of
the
negotiated
zoning
approach
is
that
it
often
doesn't
involve
people,
it's
lawyers
and
city
and
I'm.
Not
talking
about
your
city
I'm
talking
about
nationally,
okay,
the
lawyers,
the
developer,
a
city,
maybe
some
community
groups
get
involved,
they
they
form
the
basically
a
contract.
Some
some
presenters
like
me
will
call
that
contract
Sony
because
that's
essentially
what
it
becomes.
A
What
is
feasel
but
we're
not
designing
a
project,
we're
designing
parameters
that
can
turn
into
zoning
so
that
individual
projects,
whether
it's
all
one
or
individual
projects,
six
set
five,
six,
seven
or
eight
projects
implement
that
50
acre
site
that
they
can
happen.
What
you,
what
you
don't
want
is
a
fixed
like
what
the
negotiating
zoning,
where
it's
one
way
and
if
that
fails,
you're
back
to
the
drawing
board.
You
want
standards
that
reflect
your
vision
over
the
long
term
so
that
that
is
when
zoning
is
done
correctly
dot.
That
is
what
it's
gonna
do.
A
So
the
the
four
based
approach,
the
the
third
one
on
the
right
there,
the
priority
there
is
physical
character.
So
it
deals
with
all
these
other
characters.
All
these
other
characteristics,
but
physical
character
is
number
one.
And
and
again,
that's
why
this
form
based
approach
was
invented
because
a
lot
of
people
started
on
the
East
Coast
people
had
some
really
visionary
developers
that
they
were
working
for
in
the
architects
and
the
planners
would
go
to
the
county
or
the
city
and
they
say
hey.
A
We
want
to
we're
going
to
base
our
development
on
this
really
cool
area
down
the
road
and
they
say
oh
yeah.
Well,
you
can't
build
that.
Doesn't
meet
our
standards
anymore,
that's
an
outdated
area
and
wait.
That's
worth
a
lot
of
money.
It's
really
valued
and
you're
telling
us
that
your
state,
your
standards,
don't
even
recognize
it.
So
a
couple
of
the
early
projects
like
this
used
the
negotiated
zoning
approach,
because
people
just
didn't
have
the
time
to
figure
out
how
to
fix
the
system.
A
A
The
this
is
just
graphically
showing
you
I,
don't
have
a
table
with
the
exact
numbers,
but
I
can
share
with
you
an
example
from
Denver
where
the
the
director
of
Denver
graphed,
the
number
of
negotiated
or
yeah
negotiated
or
contract
zoning
proposals
before
they
did
a
forum
based
code
for
their
city
and
after
in
it's
dramatic.
It's
like
this.
A
A
You
know
it's
the
clarity
that
this
system
provides
in
response
to
it
and
I'm
gonna
here
to
tell
you
it
solves
everything
that
makes
you
jump
higher
and
all
that,
like
some
people,
might
that's
not
what
I'm
trying
to
do
I'm
simply
trying
to
show
you
the
different
options
that
you
have
for
zoning
and
the
way
that
they
respond,
the
way
that
they
that
they
function
so
here's
an
example
from
local
Houma
city.
We
did
a
code
diagnosis.
A
A
They
have
to
go
to
City,
Hall
and
school
themselves
on
that
permit
on
the
negotiated
contract
to
understand
what
could
be
built
there
instead
of
simply
saying.
Oh,
what's
the
property
zone?
Oh
well,
let
me
look
up
that
zoning
district
in
the
code
and
find
out
what
the
character
is.
What
are
the
uses
and
rely
on
that
and
you
can't
you
have
to
go.
A
Look
at
the
contract
that
was
worked
out
and
planned
you
development,
so
they
got,
they
got
tired
of
it
and
they
asked
us
analyze
their
code,
and
so
we
we
went
through
and
did
that
with
them.
This
I
think
next
month,
they're
actually
going
to
hire
someone
whether
it's
us
or
somebody
else
to
actually
go
through
and
update
that
entire
selling
code
to
get
rib.
This
is
one
of
the
problems.
Yes,
yes,
yeah,
yes,
more
more
cities
more
and
more
are
getting
frustrated
with
their
there.
A
Never
forget,
I
was
city
of
Simi
Valley
in
Southern,
California
and
I
was
sitting
there
one
day,
just
learning
from
senior
planner
and
somebody
came
in
to
ask
about
a
certain
plan
unit
development
and
that
person
was
on
vacation
and
they
had
to
tell
the
member
of
the
public.
Well
yeah.
You
can
ask
my
superior,
but
I,
don't
think
they
know
and
I'm,
not
really
the
best
person
asking
it
because
I
only
know
a
little
bit
of
it.
A
I
just
came
to
the
project
so
because
that
person
was
vacation
and
the
beauty
the
playing
development
was
that
thick,
the
person
deferred
and
said
come
back.
Instead
of
being
able
to
say
that
property
zone
X
and
here's
what
can
happen
it,
that's
really
not
a
very,
and
nobody
meant
anything
that
was
not
intentional.
It's
just
was
a
symptom
of
the
problem.
Yes,.
C
A
A
So
just
another
another
I'm
showing
you
symptoms
and
characteristics
of
the
conventional
zoning
systems
that
you
can
appreciate
why
the
form
based
system
was
made.
The
way
that
it
is
so.
This
is
an
excerpt
of
a
land-use
table
from
a
zoning
code
and
it's
overly
specific,
which
it
sounds
like
you
would
want
this
specificity,
but
that
level
of
specificity
invites
even
more
specificity
and
more
interpretation.
A
Maybe
the
city
manager
that
the
planning
director
and
they
huddle
up
and
it's
not
because
they
don't
know,
but
they
want
to
make
a
good
decision
and
it
isn't
clear
enough
on
the
list
and
you
say
well
wait:
the
list
has
it's
exhaustive
yeah,
but
the
more
exhaustive
you
are
in
identifying
things
the
more
cracks
there
are.
So
what
we've
done
is
we've
learned:
okay,
there's
a
certain
amount
of
specificity
that
is
useful
at
some
point.
A
It's
diminishing
returns
and
you
have
to
really
be
you
have
to
categorize
and
and
and
do
it
that
way
so.
But
the
the
point
here
is
that
here's
an
example
this
is
brand
new
I-
was
giving
this
presentation
probably
a
month
ago,
and
somebody
emailed
me
this
and
said:
I
see
what
you're
saying
I
just
looked
it
up
in
another
city
and
found
yogurt
store
retail.
A
Well,
what
about
you
know
just
think
of
the
different
variations
that
you
can
make
on
that
category
or
that
type
loan,
and
so
you
can
see
the
the
the
logic
in
categorizing,
not
not
generalizing,
to
the
point
of
whoa
we're
in
trouble,
no
categorizing,
then
you
can
in
the
back
of
the
zoning
code,
you
can
make
definitions
that
say
what
you
mean,
but
you
want
to
make
things
useful
in
terms
of
list
and
not
paralyzing
and
then.
Lastly,
on
the
conventional
zoning
system,
you
might
call
this
a
cheap
shot,
but
this
is
where
zoning
started.
A
A
It
isn't
happening
here,
but
the
point
is
that
that's
the
tool
that
99.9%
of
cities
in
America
use
and
so
that
tool
has
continued
to
morph
into
the
tool
that
it
is
and
in
the
biggest
lesson
the
takeaway
is,
it
was
never
a
tool
to
generate.
It
was
a
tool
to
prevent
so
think
of.
Think
of,
if
you
personalized
this-
and
you
said,
everybody's
been
at
a
party
or
just
even
worse,
at
a
dinner
party,
where
you're
sitting
across
from
somebody
for
a
couple
hours
and
all
they
do
is
tell
you
what
they
don't
like.
A
Have
you
ever
been
in
a
situation
like
that?
Okay,
at
some
point,
it
stops
being
interesting.
You
know
some
of
it
is
interesting
right,
but
at
some
point
you
go.
Oh
all,
you're
doing
is
telling
me
what
you
don't
like
and
at
some
point
you
just
want
to
see.
Is
there
anything
that
you
do
like
I,
don't
even
care
what
it
is
just
tell
me
what
it
is
and
that's
the
way
conventional
zoning
is
it's
like
it's
defense,
defense,
defense,
defense
at
some
point.
Well,
what
it?
What
is
it
trying
to
make?
A
If
you
could
ask
it
a
question,
what
are
you
trying
to
make
and
I
challenge
challenge
is
to
strong
work.
I
invite
you
to
look
at
if
you
really
co.
Geek
like
like
I,
am
in
others
you'll.
Do
it
you'll,
go
into
zoning
code
and
look
in
a
Sony
or
a
zoning
district,
and
the
question
is:
what
is
this
place
trying
to
make
if,
if
these
standards
were
applied
and
these
uses
were
replied,
can
I
reasonably
understand
by
reading
this?
A
B
A
Conventional
zoning
system
is,
is,
it
was
never
intended
to
generate
there's
an
only
as
a
prevention
and
which
is
half
of
the
problem.
That's
that's
a
very
necessary
half
of
the
equation,
but
the
other
half
is
well.
What
do
you
do
once
you
stop
everything?
What
is
it
that
you're
intending
to
allow
so
yeah,
so
so
that
the
the
problem
is
this?
That
cities
have
their
zoning
and
then
they
some
problem
comes
up
and
they
realize
oh
man,
let's
put
another
layer
of
regulation
on
it.
A
Oh
whoa,
last
week
somebody
came
in
let's
put
another
rail
layer
regulation
and
it's
all
well
intended.
None
of
this
is
malicious.
None
of
this
is
because
people
aren't
smart,
in
fact,
they're
very,
very
smart
people
in
these
cities.
Doing
this,
it's
just
it's.
It
takes
a
big
shift
to
draw,
get
yourself
out
of
this
pattern
and
do
something
else.
So
people
keep
patching
with
very
good
intentions
when
the
whole
time.
The
problem
was
that
it
was
the
base
zoning
that
was
really
never
fixed.
Why
do
people
never
fix
the
base
owning?
A
The
most
prevalent
reason
is
that
cities,
communities,
lawyers,
everybody
involved,
tends
to
say
whoa.
That
means
we're
gonna,
technically
rezone
the
property,
and
that
means
all
kinds
of
things
that
we
don't
intend.
Let's
drop
that
option
so
patch
we
patch
it.
We
patch
your
patch
it.
Meanwhile,
you
know
I
could
I
could
tell
you
city
after
city,
where
we've
been
hired
to
look
at
a
city's
either
existing
code.
A
That
they're
thinking
of
you
know
just
revising
or
a
developer,
calls
and
says
our
property
owner
calls
and
says
you
know:
I
can't
make
heads
or
tails
of
these
of
these
zoning
system
classifications
here
in
the
city.
Can
you
guys
look
at
this
and
often
it's
looking
at
through
those
layers,
cities,
they've
added
these
layers
puts
all
good
attention,
but
you
say:
well:
Wow
layer,
three
cancels
out
layer,
2
the
layer,
2
doesn't
cancel
out
layer
1
like
they
thought
it
would,
and
when
you
do
the
analysis
you're
well
I.
A
Do
this
all
day
long
this
ain't
making
my
head
spin.
So
what
the
issue
is
you've
got
to
get
back
to
the
base
zone
in
conventional
zoning.
People
are
reticent
to
do
that.
For
the
reasons
I
just
said.
Ok,
so
I
was
explaining
the
trend
between
negotiated
zoning
and
conventional
zoning
and
because
of
the
the
lack
of
responsiveness
of
conventional
zoning
to
today's
needs,
either
private
developers,
property
owners
or
designers
or
the
city
itself.
A
People
are
using
the
negotiated
zoning
tool,
but
when
the
when
you
bring
in
the
form
based
tool
and
offer
it
and
get
to
talk
to
people
about
it,
developers
and
everybody
alike-
and
you
say:
hey-
look
we're
not
selling
that
we're,
showing
it
to
you
as
an
option.
When
all
things
considered,
people
choose
the
form
based
system
over
the
others.
A
If
you're
trying
to
make
one
of
these
places,
if
you're
trying
to
make
suburbia,
then
we
wouldn't
even
enter
the
conversation
say
use
the
conventional
tool
or
the
negotiate
it
because
this
other
one
isn't
made
for
that
and
you
might
say
wow.
How
could
that
be?
I'll
explain
but,
but
this
is
the
Denver
I'll
give
the
city
that
slide
on
Denver
Peter
parks
that
the
director
shared
it
with
us.
It's
it's
very
illuminating.
I
mean
it
shows
that
that
decline
in
the
negotiated
contract
zoning
because
of
the
for
base
being
offered.
A
So
the
form
based
principles
are
pretty
simple:
the
rules
for
building
form
or
as
important
as
land
use,
regulation
itself
and
and
see.
That's
that's
a
big
departure
from
regular
zoning,
conventional
zoning.
It's
just
flipped
the
other
way
like
the
first
slide.
I
had
showed
the
the
first
system
conventional
and
the
biggest
importance
is
the
use
because
that's
how
it
started.
A
So
when
people
keep
adding
to
that
system,
guess
what's
gonna
still
stay
at
the
top,
unless
you
demote
it
and
if
you
don't
have
enough
information
about
what
to
prioritize
a
physical
character,
you're
going
to
keep
use
as
the
priority,
the
emphasis
is
on
mixing
uses
in
mixing
housing
types.
Now,
what
a
constant
leader?
Please
don't
walk
away
from
this
and
say:
oh
that
guy
said
it's
all
about
mixed
use.
No
it's
about
mixing,
and
sometimes
it's
mixing
immediately
adjacent
mixing
on
the
first
floor,
mixing
in
different
ways.
A
If,
if
this
is
a
longer
session,
I
could
show
you
a
bunch
of
different
up
options
of
that,
but,
for
example,
everybody's
seen
the
house
near
a
downtown
or
near
a
Main
Street,
that's
converted
to
something
out
there
in
residential
right.
So
that's
a
very
small
scale
and
then
there's
everything
in
between
right.
So
mixing
is
relative,
but
the
the
form
based
code
allows
for
it.
It
doesn't
penalize
it
the
public
realm.
A
So
do
you
know
what
I
mean
when
I
say
public
rum,
okay,
I'll
explain
for
Oh
somebody's
saying
they
don't
okay,
so
the
public
realm
is
when
you
walk
outside
a
building.
Let's
let's
say
that's
one
side:
okay:
over
there,
those
doors
are
one
side
of
the
public,
rome.
You
exited
your
house,
and
maybe
your
house
is
a
front
yard
or
like
these
buildings
over
here
by
the
library
and
they
have
Stoops
and
little
elevated
terraces.
You
just
walked
out
that
wall.
That
is
your
front
door
is
one
side
of
the
public
realm.
A
The
other
side
is
the
other
side
of
the
street
and
it's
building
in
that
wall.
So,
in
the
case,
I
just
gave
you
with
the
library
and
those
buildings
of
the
Stoops
across
the
street
that
library
facade
and
the
facades
across
the
street
with
Stoops
when
you're
in
that
section
of
that
Street.
That
is
the
public
realm,
and
so,
wherever
you
are,
it
changes
and
it's
either
very
positive
and
you
know
appealing
or
it's
not
and
and
so
the
in
the
form
based
code.
A
The
public
realm
gets
huge
attention
and
you'll
see
that
in
the
drawings
over
there
that
there's
a
there's
and
that's
a
very
big
departure
from
conventional
practice,
which
is
hey,
we're
the
public
works
department
and
I'm.
Not
talking
about
this
one
I'm
talking
about
nationally
my
experience,
the
Public
Works
Department
says
the
right-of-way
is
ours.
The
private
property
is
the
private
property
owners
in
the
city
and
everybody
else,
but
the
right-of-way
stay
out
of
that.
Well
guess
what
the
right-of-way
from
the
sidewalk
out
to
the
other
is
part
of
that
public
realm.
A
It
says:
okay,
what's
the
physical
character
in
the
environment
that
you're
trying
to
make
or
is
it
does
it
already
exist,
you're
simply
trying
to
make
more
of
it?
Whatever
the
question
is:
well,
literally,
we
take
a
DNA
sample.
If
it
already
is
there,
we
take
a
DNA
sample,
take
it
apart
and
say
what
makes
that
place
the
way
it
is
measure
it
take
it
apart,
and
then
you
reverse
engineer
that
into
standards
and
then
the
last
one
is
the
public
process.
A
A
Absolutely
yeah
yeah
you're,
making
place
you're
intentionally
making
a
place
and-
and
we
use
the
word
context
here-
not
every
main
streets,
the
same
Metairie
neighborhoods
the
same
and
that
every
side
streets
the
same.
It's
all
context,
there's
a
continuum,
a
spectrum
of
intensity
of
all
subjects,
yes
and
then
just
before
I
get
into
the
rest
of
it.
So
early
on,
we
were
doing
these
codes
and
City
Attorney's
and
other
people
we're
starting
to
say:
I,
don't
know
if
this
is
zoning.
A
You
know
there's
so
many
design
terms
in
here
and
some
of
these
diagrams
and
wow.
This
just
doesn't
look
anything
like
the
Commission
zoning
that
we
have
on
the
books
and
you
know
I'm
a
little
worried
and
so
we'd
have
to
get
attorneys.
That
would
speak
to
their
attorneys
and
they
they
ultimately
go.
Okay,
wait.
We
get
it.
A
We
understand,
but
I
wanted
to
hear
from
somebody
in
lying
my
arena,
my
my
room
and
another
attorney,
and
so
that
happened
enough
times
where
a
group
of
people
and
a
group
of
colleague
got
together,
wrote
some
white
papers
and
approached
the
state
and
said:
hey
can?
Can
you
recognize
this
as
a
viable
alternative
for
zoning
and
they
did
so
they
passed
Amy
1260
14
years
ago.
It
was
legal
before
that,
but
this
gave
people
and/or
cities
the
ability
to
look
at
it
and
say:
oh.
A
City
attorney
can
now
rely
on
this,
this
law
and
not
be
out
on
the
plank
thinking
that
they're
doing
something
really
crazy.
So
alright,
so
I
11
I
like
to
explain
form
these
codes.
This
way,
because
it's
the
way
I
understood
it
I've
been
writing
him
for
a
while
and
when
I
started
they
have
to
try
and
explain
them
people
the
way
I
internalized.
It
was
well
I
first
used
the
graphic
equalizer,
but
this
is
my
condensed
version
of
his
this
explanation.
A
So
if
you
make
the
analogy
to
the
built
environment-
and
you
say,
you
have
streets,
you
have
Street
scapes,
you
have
blocks,
you
have
signs,
you
have
uses,
you
have
architecture,
you
name
it
this!
That
that
board
could
go
to
the
left
or
the
right
as
many
times
as
you
want
with
as
many
topics
as
you
want,
and
then
because
now
you
can
see
those
systems
or
those
elements
of
the
physical
environment.
You
can
put
dials
on
them.
A
The
analogous
to
settings
and
standards
right,
we're
in
the
conventional
approach,
its
uses,
bulk
height,
and
it's
missing
all
these
topics,
but
four
based
approaches.
That's
the
how
it
started.
It's
like
hey.
We
know
they're
at
least
like
eight
base
topics,
maybe
ten,
depending
on
how
you
look
at
it
and
we
can
add
to
those,
depending
on
the
priority
of
the
community
and
by
area.
So
what's
important
in
Valco
might
not
be
as
important
in
another
area.
So
it's
not
a
one-size-fits-all.
A
C
A
C
A
A
priority
of
the
community:
if
the
community
says
hey,
we
went
to
Europe.
The
question
was:
how
how
does
the
forum
based
system
respond
to
timeless
design
principles
and
approaches
right?
Is
that
what
yeah,
okay
and
the
answer
is
that
again
we
we
look
around
you'll,
hear
Dan,
parole,
ik
and
others
on
the
team
use
the
word
precedent
now
when
you
talk
to
a
lawyer
or
a
planner,
a
precedent
is
something
to
avoid
or
something
to
to
use
as
interpretation.
A
When
we
talk
to
designers,
what
we're
saying
is
it's
an
example
of
something
to
do
again:
okay,
some
people
use
that
term
negatively.
We
use
it
positively
to
say,
oh
so,
in
in
cupertino,
they've
done
some
research,
okay.
What
what
is
relevant
here
as
an
example
as
a
precedent?
So
that's
the
way
we
incorporate
that
and
we
don't
stick
to
it
and
say
well.
You
know
the
Greeks
said
that
this
is
a
proportion
for
building.
A
So
it's
got
to
be
that
I
mean
you
know
if
you
had
some
Greek
buildings
here
and
we
could
measure
them
and
go
hug
their
using
the
Greek
proportions.
Oh,
let's
use
that.
Then
there
would
be
relevance
right.
Does
that
make
sense,
the
soundboard
and
all
that?
Okay,
all
right,
so
I'm
gonna
walk
you
through
what
what
a
form-based
code
looks
like.
A
And
if
you
look,
if
you
look
at
the
intent
in
a
conventional
zoning
code,
it
is
the
exact
opposite
of
this
hey,
it
doesn't
have
a
graphic,
but
even
if
it
didn't
have
a
graphic,
if
you
could
see
below
right
there
in
the
middle
column,
that's
not
showing
on
the
screen
at
the
bottom
below
that
blue
line
has
an
intent
statement
about
the
physical
character
and
it
isn't
like
most
zoning
districts
will
say:
oh
the
c3
zone
is
meant
to
have
commercial
uses
and
be
in
harmony
with
what's
harmony.
It's
debatable
right.
A
This
talks
about
the
scale
and
size
of
buildings,
the
kinds
of
uses
and
their
proximity
to
other
things.
It
says
that
every
time
for
every
district
and
then
in
the
middle
column,
on
that
page
and
below
the
blue
line,
it
actually
identifies
are
the
buildings
elevated
from
the
street.
Are
they
set
back
from
the
street?
We
haven't
gotten
the
numbers.
This
is
qualitative.
This
is
linking
the
the
vision
with
another
layer
of
information
so
that
it
isn't
just
a
vision
in
numbers.
A
You
want
something
in
between
when
somebody
challenges
the
numbers
you
can
go
back
to
that
link
in
between
which
is
there
and
say
hey
the
intent
of
the
zoning
district
is
the
buildings
are
X,
the
buildings
are
set
back,
know
they're
near
the
street.
Are
the
buildings
attached
or
detached?
Are
the
buildings
of
footprints,
small,
medium
or
large?
All
that
information
is
really
really
important.
When
somebody
comes
and
challenges
five
years
later,
hey,
you
know
that
set
back.
It
says
12
feet,
I
want
to
change
it
to
X.
A
B
A
Well,
let
me
stop
you
right
there.
Let
me
look.
I
know,
I
know
what
you're
saying
I
use
the
word
qualitative,
but
again
we
aren't
to
the
standards.
Yet
this
is
the
intense
statement
of
the
zoning
district.
So
I,
it's
not
qualitative,
that's
not
enforceable.
It's
the
opposite.
It's
actually
enforceable
intent
statement,
language,
that's
that's
what
it
is.
So
it
is
not
correct.
I'm
not
saying
you're
incorrect
I'm
saying
that
it
is
not
correct
to
say
that
that
is
qualitative
unenforceable,
language.
It's
it's
actually
enforceable
intent
language.
It's
just
it's
articulated
beyond
a
sentence.
A
B
A
B
A
Like
a
c4
zoning,
district,
commercial,
r1,
zoning
district
or
zone,
that's
what
I'm
referring
to
and
when
I
talk
about
a
zone.
All
the
topics
in
a
form-based
code
are
coordinated
for
an
integrated
outcome
which
they
are
not
coordinated
for
an
integrated
outcome
in
a
conventional
zone.
That's
that's!
Why
I'm
making
that
distinction.
A
Can
somebody
help
with
a
microphone
for
these
cushions
so
yeah?
So
the
question
is
in
a
form-based
code
word:
would
there
be
multiple
zoning
districts?
That's
true
for
both
systems,
it's
true
for
the
conventional
system
and
for
the
form
based
system.
The
difference
is
that
in
the
form
based
system,
the
form
basis
owns
I'm
going
to
use
the
term
zone.
A
Is
it's
focused
on
physical
character
and
use
not
just
use
and
in
the
conventional
zoning
it's
the
use
with
some.
You
know
like
talk
about
physical
character
yeah,
but
they
both
use
multiple
zones
to
get
the
job
done,
yeah
and
then
that
intent,
page
and
the
zone,
the
zone,
I'm
gonna
stop
seeing
sound
history.
The
zone
begins
with
that
intent,
page
and
I'm
really
invite
you
to
look
at
other
other
videos.
Look
at
this
one
here.
D
A
Don't
remember
the
title
of
zoning
code
here,
but
look
at
it
and
you're
gonna
see
that
I'm
not
criticizing
it
I'm.
Just
simply,
comparing
you're
gonna
see
the
intensity
to
be
something
that
begs
a
lot
of
questions
and
and
is
missing
that
information
I
was
describing
here.
So
the
next
page
is
a
set
of
status
of
standards
about
building
a
form
where
the
building
needs
to
be
placed
to
create
that
but
see
every
every
standard.
Inform
based
zone
is,
is
reverse
engineered
to
deliver
the
environment
that
that
zone
said
it's
can
deliver.
A
A
All
those
kinds
of
things
that
lead
you
to
the
standards
are
set
here
and
then
those
are
unpacked
here
in
the
detail
standards
in
order
to
make
that
physical
environment
you've
got
to
put
the
building
here
and
the
setback
is
x2
y
and
the
buildings
have
to
be
attached
or
they
have
to
be
detached
whatever.
It
is.
Those
of
course
Tanner's
appear
here.
A
You
probably
know
them
as
building
setbacks,
there's
building
height
building
setbacks,
but
then
a4
based
code
goes
further
and
says:
wait
in
order
to
make
that
environment
we've
got
to
make
sure
the
parking
is
not
messing
up
the
streetscape
and
not
being
too
close
to
the
front
or
to
the
sides
of
buildings.
So
we
have
parking
setbacks
to
make
sure
that
the
parking
is
in
the
right
location
to
make
that
environment
again,
everything
is
aimed
at
making
that
like.
A
If
we
were
going
to
make
this
environment
several
times,
and
you
wanted
to
predictably
know
what
was
going
to
happen,
you
would
write
rules
that
predict
this,
invite
that
predictably
generate
this
environment.
That's
what
the
this
zone
is
doing.
It's
giving
you
standards
that
will
generate
that
environment.
Then
the
next
topic
is
building
building
size
and
footprint.
So
it's
it's
one
thing
to
say:
set
it
back,
attach
or
detach
it
there's
a
rear
setback.
But
how
big
is
that
footprint
wall
depends?
It
depends
on
the
character
of
that
area.
A
If
it's
really
intense,
the
buildings
are
attached
and
the
building
footprints
are
large
and
you
know
it
and
go
down
from
that.
It
just
depends
and
then
uses
so
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
form
based
codes.
I
think
we're
misunderstood,
because
people
say
oh
you're,
just
focused
on
physical
character,
you're,
not
gonna,
regulate,
use,
that's
going
to
be
a
mayhem
here
and
I.
Think
some
of
the
original
codes
thirty
years
ago
were
more
architectural
II
oriented
than
then
they
probably
should
have
been,
but
they.
A
Intention
and
different
role
thirty
years
ago,
and
so
the
use
didn't
get
talked
about
but
uses
are
definitely
regulated
as
I
always
like
to
say,
he's
a
complete
form
based
code,
they're,
regulated
and
incomplete
in
an
incomplete
one
day
or
not.
And
then
the
new
topic
gets
inserted
called
frontages,
and
this
is
critical,
like
all
those
other
things
are
critical,
but
this
is
even
more
critical
and
frontage
is
how
the
ground
floor
of
a
building
its
facade.
A
A
It's
right
at
the
back
of
the
sidewalk,
all
kinds
of
options
that
stellen
physical
world
that
you
can
now
turn
into
types
and
allow
or
not
allow
based
on
the
physical
character
you're
trying
to
generate
so
here,
I'm,
showing
two
types
I'm
showing
the
for
court
on
the
Left,
which
is
you're,
walking
down
the
sidewalk
and
all
of
a
sudden
there's
an
indentation,
a
little
plaza
part
of
the
building
in
the
buildings
format.
And
so
this
gives
standards
for
how
big.
That
should
be.
How
deep
is
too
deep?
A
What
kind
of
from
ground
floor
openings
you
need
to
make
that
a
positive
space
and
then
the
one
on
the
right
is
for
a
shopfront,
so
frontages
and
then
streets
and
civic
spaces.
So
again,
I
talked
about
the
need
to
regulate
the
design
of
the
street
and
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
work
there
to
be
done
in
every
city.
It's
not
an
easy
thing
to
do,
but
I
understand
the
Public
Works
Department.
A
Here
is
it's
better
than
a
lot
that
I've
seen
so
I'm
encouraged
to
hear
that,
and
it's
really
great,
because
if
you
get
the
middle
of
street
wrong,
you
can
get
all
this
other
stuff
right
and
it's
gonna
be
like
an
80
percent
achievement
and
you
want
the
whole
thing
and
so
on
the
right.
Then
there
are
standards
for
civic
spaces.
So,
instead
of
just
saying
well,
we
want
open
space
and
we'll
figure
it
out
later.
You
can
actually
put
a
certain
amount
of
that
at
the
standards
or
all
of
it
into
the
standards.
A
It
depends.
That's
the
other
thing.
With
with
these
kinds
of
standards,
you
can
dial
up
the
level
of
regulation
and
say
we
want
to
regulate
every
last
thing,
because
we
don't
trust
anybody-
or
you
can
say
you
know,
like
some
cities.
Well,
we
just
want
to
get
a
few
of
the
things
right
and
we're
open
to
the
design
process
and
we'll
work
with
people,
so
they
dial
it
down.
Maybe
you're
in
the
middle
to
the
to
the
top.
A
I,
don't
know
so,
but
but
it's
adjustable
is
what
I'm
saying
you
you
can
see
as
little
or
as
much
detailed
regulation
as
you
like,
and
then.
Lastly,
I
just
want
to
go
through
a
couple
images
here
about
the
built
environment.
So
do
you
see
the
buildings
on
the
left?
This
is
st.
Alena
or
Healdsburg
I'm.
Sorry,
you
see
the
buildings
on
the
left
are
more
solid
than
the
and
bigger
than
the
buildings
on
the
right.
A
Everybody
see
that
so
the
buildings
on
the
left
are
what
we
call
block
scale
and
the
buildings
on
the
right
or
what
we
call,
how
scale
pretty
intuitive
the
house
scale.
It's
like
buildings
are
the
size
of
houses,
small
cottage
to
mansion,
there's
a
reality
about
how
big
buildings
are
when
their
houses
and
whether
they're
used
by
three
units
or
six
units
or
one
or
there's
a
store
or
a
restaurant
in
it.
A
Now
you
can
look
at
something
and
say:
that's
a
house
scale
building
and,
and
it's
a
real
easy
way
to
categorize
the
built
environment
and
talk
with
people.
Say:
hey
you
talking
about
block
scale,
buildings
yeah,
oh
okay,
I
got
it
and
it
takes
you
a
couple
minutes
to
learn
it
and
you
got
it
well.
The
current
conventional
system
doesn't
use
that
it
uses
numbers
that
are
based
on
the
idea
of
populating
big
big
areas
of
land.
A
When
we
had
a
lot
of
vacant
areas
in
the
country,
that's
why
these
things
were
invented
to
be
able
to
project
over
2,000
acres,
how
many
units
you're
gonna
get?
Well,
we
don't
have
those
problems
anymore.
So
this
system
of
using
density
and
I'm
going
to
talk
about
floor
area
ratio.
It's
really
it's
more
of
a
measuring
device
than
a
break.
It's
not
should
not
be
a
regulatory
device,
but
too
many
cities
do
use
it.
A
Unfortunately,
so
I
just
wanted
to
start
by
saying
look
at
these
two
buildings
that
could
not
be
more
different
in
in
their
size,
especially
one
is
a
hundred
and
eighty
units,
it's
only
three
storeys,
but
it's
180
units
and
it's
huge.
It
goes
off
the
screen,
it's
bigger
than
the
screen.
The
other
one
is
a
beautiful
five
unit.
What
we
call
mansion
apartment
in
Pasadena
five
units,
but
look
at
the
density
they're,
only
one
number
apart
so
does
it
really
serve
that
to
have
wars
about
density
like
so
many
communities?
A
Do
it's
about
size
and
scale?
Yes,
maybe
maybe
at
some
point
the
number
of
people
living
next
door
is
a
factor,
but
that
isn't
going
to
tell
you
that
here
wouldn't
tell
you
that
here's
another
example
from
Vallejo
where
we
were
working
a
couple
years
ago.
These
buildings
are
almost
identical
in
scale
and
size,
yet
they
differ
by
the
number
of
units.
Some
are
flats
and
some
are
not,
and
some
one
has
three
and
it's
a
I
think
fifty-three
years
or
fit
yeah
and
the
other
one
is
at
82.
Yet.
B
A
Physical
scale
is
almost
identical
and-
and
the
lesson
here
is
that
the
the
density,
so
many
people
talk
about
density
so
long
and
it's
like
adding
water
to
lemonade,
it's
too
strong,
add
more
water.
The
density
is
too
high.
Extend
a
lot,
get
a
lot
merger
and
buy
a
little
more
of
the
lot
next
to
you
and
the
density
goes
down,
but
did
the
physical
scale
change?
No,
so
it's
it's
the
wrong
argument
to
be
having
in
so
many
communities
do
spend
a
lot
of
time.
A
On
this
argument,
and
and
just
to
sum
up
here
that
we
have
started
to
go
further
like
we,
we
we
apply
the
block
scale
and
how
scale
idea
to
buildings,
but
in
terms
of
thinking
of
the
whole
system,
we've
actually
started
to
play
this
thing
of
small,
medium
and
large,
and
you
probably
heard
Dan
talk
about
it
that
you
can
take
every
topic
across
the
spectrum,
a
physical
spectrum
and
identify
it
is
it
small.
Is
it
medium
large
or
some
cases
extra-large
like
downtown
San
Francisco?
You
can
actually
do
that
and
set
those
parameters.
A
So
I
want
to
show
you
here:
I've
done
that
and
I've
taken
out
the
proprietors
logo.
Cuz
I
didn't
want
to
get
it
commercial
for
anybody.
You
know,
won't
tell
you
who
it
is,
don't
guess,
but
you
see
on
the
bottom,
small,
medium
large
and
for
for
Cupertino
and
for
Valco
what
the
team
has
identified
as
a
beginning
point.
A
This
is
not
the
end,
but
a
beginning
point
to
start
talking
is
that
small
means
two
to
four
stories
and
medium
is
five
to
twelve
enlarges
over
twelve
thirteen
and
up,
and
it
has
a
lot
to
do
with
the
size
of
buildings
but
more
to
do
what
is
a
much
to
do
with
construction
types.
Some
things
don't
get
built.
You
know
at
eight
stories
that
get
built
at
twelve.
You
know
there's
certain
buildings
that
begin
at
twelve
and
they
they.
Let
me
revise
that
these
numbers
correlate
to
construction
realities.
A
We're
using
these
sizes
and
again
it's
the
beginning,
point
in
the
process
and
then,
lastly,
this
information
gets
put
on
a
map
called
a
regulating
plan,
and
so
we'll
have
to
work
that
out
with
your
with
your
city,
officials
and
your
attorney,
but
the
regulating
plan
differs
from
a
zoning
map
in
that
it's
basically
a
three-dimensional
zoning
map.
It
does
more
than
just
simply
identify
what
uses
are
allowed
and
talk
how
tall
the
the
building
could
be
and
what
the
density
is.
It
has
all
these
other
characteristics
embedded
in
it
further.
A
You
could
say
this
doesn't
work
there,
but
you
could
say
like
on
Valco,
especially
you
could
say
you
know
what
that
map
is
going
to
tell
you
where
the
prime
Civic
space
needs
to
be
not
where
we'd
like
it
to
be
where
it
needs
to
be.
You
could
actually
do
that
on
one
of
these
maps
now
some
cities,
don't
because
that
sort
of
cuts
out
some
possibilities,
but
I,
don't
know
who
they,
maybe
that's
something
to
consider
here.
A
I'm
just
telling
you
the
power
of
one
of
these
types
of
maps
that
you
can
actually
show
a
lot
of
your
intentions
in
a
regulatory.
What
with
regulatory
status,
okay
and
I
just
want
to
sum
up
by
saying
that
all
these
things
I
just
showed
you
about.
You
know
how
we
do
it.
The
conventional
system
doesn't
do
that.
The
conventional
system
spends
time
on
floor
area
ratio
and
people
argue
about
it,
and
yet
this
is
one
of
my
best
examples.
A
It's
empathising
a
same
floor
area
ratio
couldn't
be
more
different
and
that's
because
you
can
manipulate
floor
area
ratio
to
do
all
kinds
of
things
you
can
make
it
do
anything
as
long
as
you're.
Using
your
allocated
floor
area
ratio,
you
can
squish
it
up
one
side,
you
can
move
it
around.
How
predictable
is
that?
And
if
you're
talking
to
your
neighbor,
would
you
rather
have
a
discussion
about?
You
know
they're,
proposing
some
some
medium
five
to
ten
story
buildings,
or
would
you
rather
say
they're,
proposing
1.7
to
forty
eight
to
the
acre
buildings?
A
I
mean
I'm,
an
expert,
so
I
can
I
can
jump
it.
What
1.7
to
48
means,
but
not
as
quickly
as
you
think
that
still
means
a
lot
of
questions
for
me,
so
I
imagine
for
the
general
public,
it's
even
harder
to
determine
and
and
just
lastly,
a
couple
slides
here
about
compatible
compatible
but
compliant
realities.
These
are
things
that
are
compliant
with
the
rules
there
in
Los
Angeles,
but
they
couldn't
be
more
compelling
compatible
the
but
see
one
is
on
a
corridor
and
the
other
one
is
in
a
neighborhood.
A
That's
not
going
to
change
its
worth.
It's
beautiful!
You
probably
of
neighborhoods
like
that
here,
really,
you
know
small
one.
Two
storey
bungalow
neighborhoods
they're,
both
within
their
rights
but
they're,
also
right
next
to
each
other,
and
nobody
really
ever
thought
about
the
realities
of
the
sizes
of
buildings.
In
these
two
places
they
both
have
to
be
where
they
are
the
realities
of
real
estate.
You
know
intensity
all
those
things,
but
nobody
figured
out
how
to
deal
with
that.
A
So
most
cities
do
is
they
say
well,
we'll
just
have
a
wedding
cake
step
back
and
get
that
building
a
step
back.
Well,
that
looks
good
if
you're
standing
here,
looking
down
to
the
fence
of
both
of
both
houses.
But
if
you
look
at
it
from
the
air
and
look
at
it
and
say,
wait,
those
are
little
houses.
Next
to
these
bigger
buildings,
the
formation
approach
would
say:
okay,
why
don't
we
push
the
big
part
of
the
building?
That's
that
needs
to
happen
economically,
there's
a
reality
to
that.
A
Let's
push
that
toward
the
corridor
and
what
the
neighbors
feel
are
smaller
wings,
the
size
of
their
houses
like
let's
say
their
house
is
40
or
60
feet
wide.
The
big
part
of
the
building
goes
against
the
corridor
and
what
the
neighbors
feel
what
they
experience
are
these
smaller
wings
that
are
more
reasonable,
like
medium
sized
or
or
smaller,
that
they
perceive
that
that's
the
form
based
approach
to
the
same
problem.
A
So
the
the
last
thing
I
just
want
to
leave
with
you
before
we
have
more
questions.
It's
just
to
say,
I'm,
not
here
to
convince
you
a
form-based,
donnie
I'm
here
to
try
and
explain
it
to
you
and
and
to
well
as
dispassionately
as
I
can
I
know,
I'm
passionate
about
it,
but
I've
worked
with
the
other
systems
and
I've
tried
other
approaches,
and
this
approach
is
the
most
effective,
and
so
you
can.
You
can
differ
and
you
can
have
your
own
approach
and
thought.
A
That's
your
choice,
but
I
I
have
practiced
this
for
25
years
now,
I've
worked
on
a
lot
of
codes
and
learned
a
lot
and
I
teach
it
now
to
planning
students
because
part
of
what
I
run
into
across
the
country
is
that
more
and
more
planners
I
mean
they're,
either
allergic
to
it,
as
I
was
telling
stuff
here,
they're
either
allergic
to
it,
because
they're
afraid
of
it.
It's
like
this
new
information
I
wasn't
training
that
my
professor
I
really
valued
that
person-
and
they
didn't
teach
me
about
this.
A
So
somehow
this
is
suspect
or
they
love
it,
but
they
don't
really
understand
it.
So
I
committed
myself
when
somebody
gave
me
the
opportunity
to
teach
of
the
university
level
I
jumped
on
it
and
I've
been
teaching
for
five
years
at
UCLA
and
Cal
Poly,
Pomona
and
I
teach
undergrads
and
graduates
students
about
this
and
I
say
I'm
gonna.
Take
you
through
a
10-week
course
to
really
steep
you
in
this
and
show
you
that
it's
a
skill
you
have
so
when
you
go
to
a
city,
you
at
least
know
something
about
it.
A
Otherwise,
you
know
you
people,
look
at
you
and
expect
you
to
know
it.
So
again
you
know
I'm
telling
you
I'm
not
selling
it
to
you,
but
I
realize
that
I
am
passionate
about
it,
because
I've
tried
the
other
systems
and
they're
not
as
effective.
But
again,
if
you
differ,
I
respectfully
accept
that
yes,.
F
G
Thank
you
for
the
information
regarding
the
zone
base,
zoning
and
whatnot
it's.
It
seems
to
me
it's
very
interesting
and
but
I
guess.
The
question
that
I
inches
in
finding
out
is
that
the
answer
that
I'm
interested
in
finding
out
is
that
the
main
issue
to
me.
It
seems
like
we're
missing
the
public
transportation
piece
so
from
based
on
my
personal
research.
The
cities
who
are
doing
well
in
terms
of
comprehensive
planning
making
everyone
happy
is
that
they
have
public
transportation
plan
along
with
office
and
growth.
It
happens
simultaneously
or
there's
a
plan
in
place.
G
A
G
A
Thank
you
well
yeah,
but
but
but
let
me
let
me
let
me
respond
to
that
differently.
I'm
answering
your
question,
but
your
your
ass
you're
asking
a
question
sounds
with
a
certain
certain
thing
in
mind:
I'm
saying
no
zoning
solves
it,
but
that
isn't
the
end
of
the
answer.
No
zoning
solves.
It
is
my
answer,
because
it's
not
a
zoning
issue
providing
enough
housing
to
make
transit
viable,
is
a
zoning
issue
and
that
is
made
easier
by
this
system
than
conventional.
B
H
B
J
J
A
A
J
So
I
guess
my
next
question
was
good.
You
may
not
be
able
to
answer
if
they
were
single
sites
or
full
city
and
when
did
they
shift
and
why?
But
if
you
didn't
work
with
those
cities,
you're
not
going
to
know
so
non-local
cities,
you
touched
on
why
there
was
a
shift
in
Sun.
But
can
you
give
us?
Have
you
worked
with
a
city
that's
similar
to
ours
in
a
region,
that's
similar
to
ours?
That
said
enough
is
enough:
we're
doing
form
based
code
and
we're
not
just
gonna.
A
Well,
as
I
mentioned
with
my
first
slide,
it
never
is
done
for
the
entire
city,
because
this
I
don't
know-
maybe
you
weren't
here
for
this.
My
own
betting
statement
was
that
this
tool
is
only
applied
to
what
we
call
walkable
urban,
not
auto,
oriented,
suburban
and
a
lot
of
the
built
landscape
is
auto.
Oriented,
suburban
and
this
tool
was
never
meant
for
that.
The
conventional
zoning
tool
is
perfectly
fine
for
that:
okay,
so
yeah.
A
So
when
I
say
the
entire
city,
what
what
I'm
saying
is
that
they
did
a
citywide
code,
update
and
60%
of
their
city
used
form
based
zones
and
40%
I'm
guessing
right
now
at
the
proportion.
It's
something
like
that,
and
40%
continued
with
conventional
zoning
in
in
Austin
Texas
we're
working
right
now
that
city
is
probably
30,
70,
30,
walkable,
urban
and
70
conventional.
You
know
utterings
suburban,
it's
usually
that
kind
of
percentage
where
these
cities
had.
A
You
know
the
walk,
will
pattern,
and
then
they
really
grew
these
suburban
patterns
on,
and
it's
usually
about
1/4
3/4,
typically
like
in
Oklahoma
City.
We
analyzed
that
and
it
was
like
yeah
20
80
30
70,
something
like
that
is
the
typical
pattern
and
downtown
Petaluma
is
another
downtown
nearby
that
used
one
of
these
and
I
there's
one
one
I
can't
think
of
the
name
of
the
place,
but
it's
here
in
the
bay
area,
probably
what
we're
working
in
downtown
Hayward
right
now
that
isn't
adopted,
there's
another
one.
A
K
One
quick
comment
and
then
a
question
on
the
transportation
issue:
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
I
find
personally
very
frustrating
is
that
cities
control
the
land
use,
but
the
counties
are
the
ones
that
control
the
transportation
networks.
So
I
think
this
is
where
a
lot
of
the
disconnect
is
in
terms
of
transportation
planning.
So,
while
it
is
planning
it's
just,
it's
a
totally
different
jurisdiction,
and
that
makes
it
really
really
hard
right.
K
But
on
your
question
to
my
main
question
about
this,
this
is
great.
It's
nice
to
see
the
the
baseline
concepts
with
something
like
Valco,
it's
a
single
owner
and
you
know
walkable
urbanism
very
organically.
You
know
in
like
the
you
know,
the
1920s
and
the
the
cities
that
we
know
that
we,
the
very
small,
fine
grained
cities,
that
you
know
we
kind
of
love
as
urban
and
walkable
we're
parceled
out.
You
know
lots
of
little
parcels.
You
know,
make
up
an
aggregate
hole.
So
what
is
the?
K
A
Right,
well,
that's
a
great
that's,
a
great
technical
question
and
what
we
do
is
not
most
a
lot
of
codes
are
well.
What
we
do
is
you
provide
standards
to?
Basically
it's
in
some
intensities
like
say:
downtown,
San,
Francisco,
downtown
Oakland,
it's
the
opposite,
it's
okay!
That
things
are
bigger
and
and
all
that,
so
what
you
want
to
do
is
go
the
opposite
and
say
we
want
to
reflect
that's
with
smaller
increment
when
you're
walking,
past
75
foot
basalt.
A
Another
50
foot
saw
it
nothing
too
big
in
terms
of
the
length
across
the
sidewalk,
because
you
start
to
feel
like
wow
this.
This
is
way
too
big
a
scale,
and
so
what
you
do
a
couple
things
you
can
do
you
can
you
can
either
insert
what
we
call
a
facade
increment
standard.
You
can
save
the
individual
facades
can't
be
longer
than
X,
but
the
danger
in
doing
that
is
that
with
a
bad
designer
they
can
do
like
Candyland
or
you
know
something.
A
So
that's
you
often
want
to
support
that
with
other
standards
such
as
okay,
you'll,
you
own,
the
whole
thing,
but
what's
in
this
block,
you
have
to
break
up
that
brought
la
that
block
into
Lots
design.
Lots.
The
design
lot
means
that,
for
the
purposes
of
design,
not
the
purposes
of
legal
ownership,
but
the
purposes
of
design.
That
lot
then
has
to
have
a
building
facade
respond
to
that
design.
That
lot
width.
So
now
it's
like
the
blots
are
really
always
there
and
now
the
designers
are
designing
the
at
least
the
facade
of
the
building.
A
L
L
It's
not
the
nature
and
so
I
think
one
of
the
things
that's
really
important,
whether
whether
you
decide
to
do
it
by
I
mean
you
couldn't
you
could
create
a
mixed
use
zone
as
well.
It
makes
you
so
definition
as
well.
I
think
there's
so
much
better
way,
a
much
better
way
to
do
it,
because
it's
exactly
the
exception
problem
yeah,
and
it's
something
that
has
the
opportunity
to
scale
across
across
that.
So
you
know
it.
Actually,
it
would
actually
point
out
for
the
people
here.
L
You
actually
see
that
I
think
when
somebody
who's
familiar
with
planning
with
minor
pining,
comes
to
visit,
Main
Street.
Here
they
actually
kind
of
wondering
how
come
how
come
it's
only
one
floor
of
you
know
of
restaurants,
and
that
actually
is
a
fall
out
directly
of
it's
a
shortcoming
of
the
traditional
zoning
that
was
used
to
drive
that
that.
J
L
A
So
you
you
just
touched
on
something:
I
wanted
to
to
talk
about.
I,
think
I
went
past
it
a
little
in
my
presentation.
Do
you
remember
that
slide?
I
had
word
showed
the
three
sizes
of
Lots,
and
it
said
small,
medium
and
large.
We
call
it
small,
medium
large,
but
the
reality.
The
the
point
of
that
slide.
Let
me
go
to
it
just
bear
with
me
two
seconds
here
there,
this
one.
A
The
point
of
this
is
exactly
that
that
that
cities
have
different
sizes
of
Lots
and
they
apply
the
same
standards
to
those
Lots
in
the
same
zone
and
you're
nodding.
Your
head,
like
yeah,
I,
see
that
the
problem
is
that
usually
the
and
I
applied,
the
small
medium
large.
The
cities
haven't
started
using
that
terminology,
but
the
small
one.
What
we
find
is
that,
typically,
when
you
do
that,
you
apply
the
same
zoning
zone,
sorry
zone
zoning
districts.
A
On
that
thing,
you
play
the
C
for
the
R
for
play
that
zone
for
those
three
same
properties
that
are
in
that
zone.
You
tend
to
over
some
the
small
property
and
cause
bad
projects.
You
can
have
too
much
potential
that
was
never
figured
out
mathematically
how
it
could
fit.
They
just
said:
well,
you
know,
after
we
allowed
in
this
zone
and
that
properties
in
this
zone,
so
we
map
it
in
that
zone.
Whoa
whoa,
oh,
we
got
too
much
developer
says
they
want
to
put
eight
units
on
it,
but
really
only
five
fit.
A
A
little-bitty
have
ever
figured
that
out,
because
the
conventional
zoning
system
doesn't
ask
those
questions,
so
the
small
properties
are
over
zone,
but
the
reverse.
The
inverse
problem
happens
on
the
large
properties
they're
under
sewn.
So
they've.
Oh,
that's!
That's
what
caught
me
tell
you
your
question
you're
talking
about
a
building.
It's
one
story
and
it
could
have
been
all
this
more
well,
it's
under
sound,
it's
it!
So
it
you
know
if
you
start
to
look
at
things
of
what
they
could
be
and
start
to
constrain
them
it.
A
You
know,
constrain
them
physically,
you'll,
understand
that
most
properties,
understood
or
over
zone,
because
again,
there's
no
malice.
Here,
it's
not
like
people
in
City
Hall
in
how
do
we
understand
that
guy's
property
nobody's
doing
that?
It's
just
they're,
applying
a
one
of
a
one-size
approach
to
all
kinds
of
properties
in
the
same
zone.
Yes,.
B
M
B
A
F
A
M
B
M
B
M
A
Well,
well,
let's
let
me
just
tell
you
what
I
know
I'm,
not
I'm,
gonna
tell
you
I,
know
every
detail
what
they're
doing
this
minute,
but
as
of
this
morning,
it's
not
an
underground
parking
garage
or
the
whole
thing.
There
is
underground
parking,
because
some
of
those
buildings
are
being
tense,
but
my
understanding
is
not
it's.
It's
not
a
visiting
land
garage
and
with
the
whole
site
like
that.
Okay,.
M
D
M
Well,
so
it
needed
a
lot
more.
They
had
about
6500
spaces
and
SP.
35
is
about
10,500,
so
you're
talking
about
the
streetscape,
but
in
order
to
maintain
some
of
these
Street
scapes
the
way
you
want
it,
you
have
to
have
all
of
these
kind
of
embedded
parking
structures
hidden
around
on
the
lot
and
then
lastly,
well.
A
Depends
re
just
that
just
to
respond
to
that
it
depends
on
the
assumptions
for
parking.
It
depends
on
the
the
viability
of
transit.
All
these
things
play
into
it,
and
so
the
suburban
approach
is
we're
not
going
to
count
on
it
at
all.
So
we're
going
to
park
it
all,
and
so
you
get
these
giant
buildings
with
giant
garages
right.
M
A
A
A
B
N
B
I
B
N
Somebody
can
take
those
codes,
and
you
know
wind
up
with
an
entirely
different
design
working
the
other
way.
You
know
which
is
sort
of
what
Sand
Hill
has
done
and
keep
coming
back
to
Sand
Hill,
but
the
reality
is
those
guys
can't
be
trusted.
Okay,
and
that's
that's
what
this
SB
35
thing
is
all
about,
and.
N
A
Want
you
to
scan,
because
what
because
it
has
environment
or
here
that
people
will
resist
it?
Just
because
of
that
and
my
understand,
you're
right
I
mean
yeah.
It
changed
we're
in
the
business
of
change.
Does
something
change
a
little?
Nothing,
a
lot!
That's
what
we're
talking
about
and
again
I'll
tell
you
dispassionately
are
passionately.
However,
you
want
to
take
my
when
posture,
using
the
existing
system
that
you
have
that
most
cities
have
its
anemic
on
the
topics
that
regulates
it.
Just
is,
and
especially
hearing
the
level
of
concern
that
you
have
I'm.
A
Not
judging
your
concern,
I'm
hearing
it
my
my
sentences,
you
want
to
twist
that
dial
to
regulate
more
than
less.
You
can
do
that
so
much
better
with
this
tool.
Then
then
you
can
with
the
tool
you
have
I
just
leave
it
there.
Yes,
I'm
I'm
I'm,
not
criticizing.
You
I'm,
just
expanding
on
what
you're
saying
so.
D
B
D
Prescriptive
what
typically
happens?
Do
we
rip
it
up
and
start
over
what
and
if
a
developer
says
Josh
gosh
I
want
to
put
my
thumbprint
on
this
and
I
want
something
that
looks
a
lot
different
if
we
are
very
constraining
in
that.
Does
that
inhibit
and
so
I'm
really
interested
in
how
the
development
community
reacts
to
this
and
I
could
see
some
advantage
from
their
perspective.
If,
in
being
prescriptive,
it
may
take
some
of
the
uncertainty
exactly.
D
To
to
say,
okay,
if
the
rules
are
really
clear,
I
know
whether
I
can
make
money
on
this
or
not,
and
I
don't
have
to
invest
a
lot
of
time
right,
redoing
everything
from
the
ground
up
so
I
could
see.
I
could
see
both
sides
but
I'm
wondering
as
a
practical
matter
what
your
experience
has
been
in
the
real
world.
Yes,.
A
A
A
Say
sides
it
makes
it
some
type
of
cereal,
but
in
this
case
you
know
it
sounds
sort
of
like
that,
but
anyway
yeah
anyway.
The
the
reality
is
that,
with
a
four
based
code
like
with
any
conventional
code
to
you,
can
be
over
prescriptive
and
really
stifle
development,
and
usually
it
happens,
you're
not
realistic
in
the
standards.
Wait,
it's
not
gonna,
be
the
number
of
standards
or
the
level
of
regulation
that
usually
drives
somebody
crazy.
A
It's
that
the
standards
were
irrelevant
to
begin
with
and
overly
optimistic
on
some
things
that
never
were
viable,
namely
parking
assumptions.
Street
change
assumptions,
those
kinds
of
things
that
just
kill
project,
and
so
people
say
the
whole
thing
is
suspect,
because
those
base
factors
were
never
really
relevant
to
begin
with.
So
that's
how
you
can
be
not
even
a
really
prescriptive
but
sort
of
useless.
So
that's
why
we're
spending
time
to
understand
again
we're
not
designing
a
project,
we're
designing
parameters
that
will
lead
to
standards
that
don't
stifle,
but
it's
a
fine
balance.
A
Give
you
the
predictability
of
what
you
can
expect
without
having
to
watch
every
meeting
every
plan,
everything
because
that's
where
you'll
kill.
That's
the
other
end
of
the
answer.
You'll
kill
a
project
by
saying,
like
some
some
form-based
codes,
I
you
know
we
can
talk
about
this
for
three
hours,
but
I
was
telling
the
staff
you
want
to
be
careful.
Where
are
you
where
you
strike
the
balance
on
every
topic
that
you
regulate
because
early
codes
people
saw
wow,
we
can
regulate
all
these
topics.
A
Let's
turn
the
dials
all
the
way
up,
and
we
said
well,
let's
turn
some
down,
because
you
know
that's
too
much
and
we
ended
up
at
a
certain
point.
Well
then,
the
City,
Council
or
somebody
else
comes
in
and
says
we
love
this.
We
still
want
to
review
every
project.
Well,
you
just
took
all
the
predictability
out
of
it,
so
it
was
predictable
or
the
Planning
Commission,
whatever
it
would
be
in
that
community.
A
You
provided
all
this
predictability
and
developers
Wow
it's
a
higher
bar,
but
we
see
the
bar
and
we're
willing
to
deal
with
that.
But
now
you
just
took
all
that
certainty
away
by
saying
it
was
still
this.
This
tough
decision,
that
is
to
the
whim
of
five
people
and
I'm,
not
talking
about
I,
don't
use
the
word
whim
to
criticize
any
leaders
here,
I'm
simply
saying
that
it's
still
their
choice,
and
you
just
said
that
it
wasn't.
It's
also
worked
out
in
these
standards.
A
So
if
you
do
this
part
of
what
you're
agreeing
to
is
hate,
this
is
our
pact.
I
shouldn't.
Have
it
up
there.
This
part
of
this
is
our
pact
with
with
people
who
will
invest
here,
we're
saying
these
are
standards.
This
is
our
process
and
we're
not
going
to
make
you
go
through
a
second
process
to
get
there.
That'll
kill
better,
kill
everything
in
some
cities
with
early
form
based
codes.
Did
that
to
our
we
just
advised
against
it,
but
we're
not
the
City
Council.
So
we
can't
can't
tell
you
what
to
do.
Yes,.
B
A
A
crow,
sorry,
yes
and
I'm,
just
speaking
very
candidly
here
to
be
completely
just
I,
want
to
relate
to
you.
I,
don't
have
a
lot
of
experience.
Our
office
has
a
lot
of
experience.
Last
thing
I
want
to
do
is
not
be
candid
with
you
about
things
that
did
work
or
didn't
work.
You
know
I'm
telling
you
you
know
so.
H
A
So
there's
a
subject:
there's
a
standard
section
that
we
put
in
the
codes
called
adjustments
and
their
administrative
adjustments,
usually
between
5
15
and
20
percent
of
a
standard,
and
it's
not
all
across
the
board.
It
depends
on
the
standards,
so
parking
setback,
there's
a
good
idea
that
nobody
thought
of
and
the
standard
says
X.
Let's
say
it
says:
seven
feet
setback!
Well,
you
know.
When
you
do
all
these
things,
it
works
out
that
they
need
it
to
be
5
feet,
7
inches.
Well,
the
standard
says
7
feet.
A
A
About
the
stand
and
the
public
process
of
doing
the
code,
so
when
we
write
the
code,
we'll
prepare
a
draft
that
gets
reviewed
by
the
public
commented
on
by
the
public,
hopefully
they'll
be
meetings
to
work
with
you
on,
like
helping.
You
understand
how
it's
different
from
your
existing
code.
To
so
that
you
don't
just
start
reviewing
and
pouring
into
it.
You
actually
have
some
training
about
it.
A
Hopefully,
and
then,
when
you're
reviewing
it
you'll
have
a
hand
and
just
like
all
the
other
standards,
you'll
be
able
to
say,
I
think
that's
too
much
leniency
or
not
enough.
You
know,
but
again
that
it's
it
keeps
it
keeps
it
from
requiring
somebody
that
has
a
good
idea
and
meets
the
intent
of
the
code
and
is
off
by
three
or
four
inches
on
a
standard
from
having
to
go
to
the
City
Council
for
some
massive
adjustment
that
everybody
says.
Why
are
you
here?
A
O
Do
see
some
of
the
advantages
of
form
form
based
versus
a
current
way,
we're
doing
things
in
terms
of
flexibility
and
variety
and
and
other
things
that
are
lacking
in
what
we're
doing
right
now,
but
the
form
based
coding
involves
more
of
the
community
and
things
like
that.
I
understand
that
too.
What
I?
What
I
have
a
question
about
is
we're
building
for
the
future.
Correct.
Yes,.
O
We
build
will
last
for
30
to
50
years
or
something
like
that
into
the
future,
but
we
think
we're
thinking
about
the
present
and
especially
in
the
community
like
this,
where
there
are
a
lot
of
people
who
don't
want
to
see
change.
What
you're
going
to
see
is
a
lot
of
coding
of
any
kind.
It's
going
to
be
more
of
the
same
thing,
perhaps
I'm
just
saying
that
that's
a
possibility
and
one
of
the
problems
we
have
right
now
are
trying
to
envision.
What's
going
to
happen
in
the
future,
when
these
buildings
lasts
outlast
ourselves.
O
A
O
C
O
So
we
talk
about
what
we
want
for
now,
but
we
don't
always
know
what
is
best
for
the
future
and
that's
that's
problematic.
I
guess
in
general,
I
was
wondering
a
form-based
coating
will
will
incur.
You
know,
help
us
to
plan
better
for
the
future,
where
these
buildings
are
actually
going
to
be
planned
for
it
takes
you
know,
four
or
five
years
to
just
get
a
plan
approved
and
break
break
ground
and
then
the
building
last
another
30
to
50
years.
So
we're
talking
about
something
in
the
future,
not
talking
about
now
right.
A
So
so
to
make
that
as
practical
as
I
can
one
of
the
issues
that
probably
will
change
a
lot
one
of
the
factors
that
will
change
a
lot
in
the
next
5-10
years
will
be
parking
and
auto
use,
and
you
know
that
so
we
would
probably
be
a
little
more
flexible
on
parking
requirements
or
parking
location
or
more
restrictive
about
where
it
goes.
I
mean
that
is
a
subject
that
needs
a
lot
more,
a
lot
of
thought
about
how
far
to
regulate
how
much
to
require
which
not
to
require
that
is
clearly
a
subject.
A
The
other
ones
I,
you
know,
I,
don't
know
yet
haven't,
haven't
dug
into
it.
Yeah,
but
I
I
just
say
this
that,
because
it's
the
form
based
code,
responds
to
all
the
physical
characteristics
that
you
wanted
to
respond
to
there's
a
base
set
of
characters,
but
it
can
go
further.
Like
I
showed
you,
you
again
can
choose
to
regulate
this
more
or
less
to
ANSI
response
here
to
your
issue
to
your
question,
sorry,
I
can't
tell
you
what's
going
to
happen
in
52
years,
I
have.
G
A
question
we
related
to
density.
You
know,
I've
been
in
file
with
number
of
different
groups.
You
know
urban
Stevens,
Creek
urban
advisory
group
and
so
on.
So
for
one
topic
that
keep
coming
up
is
that
the
density
so
there's
a
one
group
of
people
that
keeps
saying
that
we
need
more
density
in
order
to
be
able
to
peel
public
transportations,
and
you
also
addressed
that
early
on.
Can
you
please
clarify?
How
does
that
make
sense?
I
mean
we're
dealing
with
traffic
every
day.
Right
now.
L
G
A
I,
don't
have
a
cool
little
table
or
graph.
That
shows
you
at
this
threshold
transit
is
viable,
I'm
sure
somebody
does
I,
don't
have
that
a
transportation
consultant
probably
does
have
those
numbers
based
on
context
based
on
you
know:
proximity
to
certain
destinations.
Here's
when
threshold
threshold
when
viability
of
the
transit
is
viable
I,
don't
have
that
I
would
expect
that.
But
there
is
logic
that
says
the
more
people
that
are
available
to
ride
transit,
that
they
would
take
it.
But
here's
the
thing.
A
Well,
if
you
do
that,
the
people
that
buy
those
units
are
probably
going
to
bring
their
cars
with
them,
but,
like
some
parking
consultants
are
advocating
in
the
past
five
to
ten
years
they
say
let
some
of
those
units,
if
not
all
of
them
in
certain
in
context,
unbundle
their
parking
and
let
people
buy
the
parking
like
they
would.
A
second
bedroom
say:
I,
don't
need
a
two-bedroom
unit.
A
I
just
open
one
bedroom
apply
this
same
logic
to
parking
and
say
you
know:
I,
don't
only
have
one
car
and
I
think
I'm
gonna
get
rid
of
it.
I
don't
even
want
to
buy
a
parking
space
in
that
building.
Let
that
happen
and
it's
starting
to
happen
like
in
San
Francisco,
but
it's
not
happening
enough
and
that
would
change
the
people's
outlook
on
whether
or
not
they
take
transit.
P
I'm,
actually
mine
is
not
so
much
a
questions
just
say.
Thank
you
very
much.
You
have
clarified
for
me
why
this
forum,
based
coding,
makes
more
sense.
You
know
when
you
start
talking
about
use,
I
hadn't,
not
familiar
with
planning
that
much
and
I
suddenly
dawned
on
me
we're
creating
new
types
of
businesses
that
have
are
not
in
an
existing
code.
Yeah.
B
J
D
P
I
Interestingly,
that
was
what
I
was
going
to
say
was
when
I
first
came
in
I
I
was
like.
Why
would
we
want
to
change
zone
and
be
complicated
in
blah
blah,
but
one
of
your
very
first
slides
you
showed
that
this
applies
to
an
urban
walkable
thing
and
that's
what
we're
in
the
process
of
designing
exactly.
B
I
J
J
B
E
Parents
went
along
with
her
to
look
for
an
apartment,
I
think
I
updated
the
city
on
this.
She
did
get
a
job
all
right,
but
one
of
the
issues
that
my
brother
and
sister-in-law
were
very
very
adamant
about
was
that
they
did
not
want
her
to
lease
an
apartment
where
she
did
not
have
on-site
parking
because
they
did
not
want
her
parking
her
car
in
the
adjacent
neighborhoods
because
they
live
near
Reed
College
and
people
are
parking
their
cars
in
their
neighborhood
to
use
the
new
I,
don't
know
what
it's
a
light:
light
transit
thing.
E
Up
the
parking
for
other
people,
so
we're
coming
out
at
this
both
ways.
We
have
a
young
lady
who
wants
to
get
an
apartment
and
the
parents
that
are
seeing
what's
happening
in
their
neighborhood
and
Reed
College
is
gorgeous
okay
and
they
don't
like
the
cars
that
have
come
in
from
transit,
okay,
whatever.
But
at
this
point
she
wound
up
getting
an
apartment
with
her
boyfriend.
They
got
to
two
units
and
they're
there
by
they
are
paying
per
month
for
the
two
cars
at
the
parents.
Q
I
just
have
a
comment
on
what
you've
presented.
If,
if
I
understand
correctly,
the
formerly
based
zoning
principles
that
you've
been
trying
to
describe
to
us,
it
seems
to
me
there's
there's
significant
advantages
to
the
process
that
you're
explaining
to
the
to
the
staff
for
the
city.
It
can
minimize
all
the
bureaucracy
and
infinite
mathematical
details
of
the
zoning
process
and
that
can
be
of
significant
value
to
the
city.
Yes,.
B
Q
The
community,
it
seems
to
me
from
what
you're,
explaining
that,
rather
than
us
having
to
try
to
understand
everything
being
described
in
mathematical
numbers,
you're
you're,
presenting
an
a
concept,
a
new
plan,
a
new
way
of
doing
things
that
allows
us
to
better
understand
conceptually
the
experience
that
will
be
had
by
people
interacting
with
living
with
visiting
this
environment.
And
to
me,
that's
the
beauty
of
what
you're
saying,
because
I
cannot
look
a
bunch
of
zoning
codes
and
have
any
vision
whatsoever.
In
my
mind,
what
that's
going
to
represent
when.
B
Q
A
Or
or
if
it's
a
cat
at
all
yeah
that
that's
a
very
insightful
comment,
I
ma'am
I
want
to
just
build
on
that
and
say
that
so
here's
a
page
of
the
standards
this
is
this
is
what
our
typical
pages
look
like.
We
haven't
made
your
pages
that
could
look
different
than
this,
but
this
is
what
a
lot
of
our
codes
look
like.
A
What
is
going
to
help
here
is
that
in
many
places
we
work
on
a
vision
like
this
and
then
the
result,
our
zoning
standards,
but
in
Valco
there's
going
to
be
this
thing
called
a
specific
plan
that
actually
expresses
and
what
you're
talking
about
what
it
feels
like
to
be
there.
You
will
get
that
from
these
numbers
in
these
diagrams
I
mean
the
people
that
write
it
and
you
go
through
a
process.
A
You'd
get
it,
but
if
you
just
open
it
up
the
first
day,
you
wouldn't
know
that,
what's
going
to
illustrate
that
and
be
the
the
well
illustrate,
it
will
be
the
specific
plan,
the
specific
planning
to
speak
well,
the
zoning
has
to
be
specific
or
consistent
with
the
specific
plan,
so
the
zoning
is
implementing.
What
you
see
in
the
specific
plan,
so
the
specific
plan
is
going
to
lay
out
very
carefully
here's.
What
we're
looking
for,
and
these
zoning
Stander's
happen
to
generate
that.
A
So
it's
a
it's
a
hand
in
hand
and
I
just
want
to
emphasize
that
in
a
lot
of
situations,
it's
not
less.
I
mean
it's,
not
it's
not
detrimental.
It's
just
less
and
different
is
that
we
are
not
hired
to
do
a
specific
plant.
We're
hard
just
do
the
standards
in
this
case
you're
going
to
have
both
so
it'll
you'd
have
to
be
blind
in
many
ways
to
nots
and
I'm.
A
On
the
city,
it
depends
on
on
the
need,
like
I,
don't
know,
Cupertino
well
enough
to
know
how
many
other
sites
would
really
be
walkable
urban,
but
hearing
yesterday's
retail
discussion
about
how
many
retail
sites
are
going
to
contract
and
not
be
retail
sites
any
more
than
those
Tony
anchored
shopping.
Centers
are
probably
many
versions
of
that,
and
and
I
don't
want
to
when
I
say
that
and
I
say
walkable
urban
you
know.
Does
the
slide.
I
showed
him.
A
The
very
first
slide
that
one
on
the
right
that
where
I
said
that
was
for
walk
over
that
South
Pasadena
the
biggest
building,
and
how
was
three
stories
tall,
so
walkable
urban
doesn't
mean
that
it's
always
going
to
be
the
intensity
of
BALCO.
Okay.
I'd
want
to
really
put
that
out.
There's
a
spectrum
of
everything
right.
There's
a
spectrum
of
chairs
or
a
spectrum
of
brings
everything
body
sizes
small
to
large
the
same
thing
with
buildings
and
physical
environments,
low
intensity,
high
intensity,
small
large.
So.
H
A
Yeah
exactly
and
that's
another,
that's
another
reason
why
we
make
that
that
distinction
very
clearly
at
the
beginning,
because
for
a
lot
of
years
we
knew
that
in
our
in
our
minds,
but
it
wasn't
obvious
to
others
like
you're
sitting
there
and
people
would
get
really
irritated
and
they
say
this
is
coming
to
my
neighborhood.
That's
never
going
to
change!
That's
that's
in
the!
They
would
basically
describe
it
an
oriental,
suburban
context.
A
We
would
say:
oh
man,
sorry
what
if
we
never
meant
it
for
that,
you
know
so
and
then
gosh
and
they
leave
so
yeah
well
leave
because
they
were
relieved
that
they
didn't
have
to
participate
in
that
they
they
weren't
interested
in
it
or
wasn't,
come
to
their
block
when
they
were
thinking
that
it
might
yes,
so
so
yeah
it
can
be
applied
to
other
places,
but
again
each
zone
generates
in
an
environment
right.
So
the
question
about
extending
the
zones
that
will
end
up
on
Valco
is:
do
you
want
some
more
Valco
to
occur?
A
L
The
the
main
thoroughfare
through
town
is
so
that
we
call
a
special
area.
We
call
her
to
the
city
yeah,
and
that
also
has
an
example
of
something
that
is
pre.
You
know
the
the
plan
there
predates
mixed
use
and
walkability
as
a
focus,
so
you
know
you
would
hope.
I
would
hope
that
some
of
the
things
that
come
from
the
you
know
the
things
that
support
walkability
at
Valco.
You
know
those
things,
maybe
something
you
would
consider
for
improvement
to
Main
Street
gap.
Remember.
A
You
want
to
use
this
tool
where
you
can
reasonably
expect
people
that
reasonably
expect
to
generate
a
couple
blocks.
At
least
you
know
at
least
two
blocks
of
a
walkable
urban
environment.
That's
connected
to
something
else
where
people
can
actually
be
reasonably
expected
to
walk
there
as
a
choice,
that's
different
than
a
project,
that's
isolated,
that
everybody
goes
there.
It
drives
there
and
then
enjoys
themselves
the
walkable
urban
pattern.
People
might
do
that,
but
it's
more
likely
that
the
people
within
that
pattern
or
adjacent
to
it
can
go
to
it.