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From YouTube: Preservation Commission Meeting 5-11-2021
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A
B
A
Eight
eight
members,
I'm
sorry
and
as
the
first
matter,
we
have
to
pass
a
motion
to
suspend
the
rules
to
allow
a
virtual
meeting.
Would
someone
like
to
make
a
motion
to
look
through.
A
Thank
you
all
right.
Roll
call
vote,
commissioner,
idle.
E
C
A
A
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Jacobs
hi
and
commissioner's
assignment
is
an
eye,
so
we
we've
been
talking
beforehand
to
we'll
we'll
do
the
five
matters
of
new
business
first,
before
opening
the
landmark
hearing
to
make
sure
we
have
enough
time
submission
time
to
get
through
all
the
new
business
first
for
members
of
the
the
public
who
are
present
as
we
call
each
matter,
the
person
speaking
on
behalf
of
the
applicant
should
introduce
themselves
and
give
their
presentation.
A
You
can't
control
the
the
presentation
that
the
pages,
but
you
can
ask
the
commission
staff
to
scroll
through
as
you'd
like,
so
that
the
commissioners
can
see
what
you're
referring
to
the
after
each
applicant
speaks.
We'll
have
commission
questions
we'll
then
allow
brief
public
discussions.
Please
keep
it
to
no
more
than
two
minutes
for
speaker
if
you're
going
to
speak,
please
start
by
stating
your
name
for
the
record,
and
so
it's
on
the
tape
and
then
we'll
have
any
final
commission
discussion
and
a
vote.
A
F
There
you
go
okay
good
evening,
ladies
and
gentlemen
of
the
preservation
commission.
I
would
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
you
for
allowing
us
to
appear
before
you
tonight.
I
would
also
like
to
thank
kate
sterling
for
all
his
assistance
in
helping
us
get
to
this
point.
My
name
is
kirk
alexakos
principal
architect
of
epic
acd.
F
I
am
appearing
before
you
tonight
with
the
property
owners,
mrs
amy
owen
and
mr
carl
faldner,
who
have
resided
at
2119
sherman
avenue
since
2019.
the
home
was
built
by
a
developer
named
sylvester
s,
neil
in
1895,
in
the
queen,
anne
style,
characterized
by
the
variety
of
surface
materials,
window
configurations,
roof
types
and
irregular
massing.
The
design
of
this
home
fits
the
simpler
and
less
detailed
queen
anne
homes,
as
opposed
to
the
more
elaborate
designs
found
on
orrington
avenue.
F
We
appear
before
you
tonight
to
introduce
you
to
the
alterations
the
family
intends
to
perform
to
their
home.
The
family
is
in
need
of
modernizing
the
amenities
to
their
living
spaces
to
accommodate
their
families,
needs
by
enlarging
their
existing
kitchen,
converting
existing
inefficient
spaces
to
functional
bathrooms
and
laundry
spaces
and
adding
space
for
their
bedrooms,
while
being
able
to
accommodate
periodic
in-laws
visits
comfortably
in
addition
to
work
they
intend
to
perform
on
the
interior
of
their
home.
Their
intentions
also
extend
to
beautifying
the
exterior
of
their
home
as
well.
F
Their
goal
is
to
perform
renovations
to
the
exterior
that
respect
the
historic
nature
of
evanston
and
their
neighborhood
understanding
that
the
owners
are
history
buffs.
We
all
agreed
that
whatever
work
will
be
performed
shall
be
considered
what
we
deemed
respectful
restoration
understanding
the
parameters
set
forth
by
the
northeast
evanston
historic
district.
We
tried
accomplishing
our
goals
in
a
way
that
fit
the
historic,
curb
appeal
of
the
street
while
embracing
modern
technologies.
F
Additionally,
on
the
front
facade,
we
intend
to
reestablish
the
original
material
of
the
facade
by
removing
the
existing
vinyl
siding
and
replacing
the
deteriorating
wood
siding
beneath
with
new
wood
siding
to
match
the
original
on
the
rear
of
the
home.
The
goal
was
to
add
a
bedroom
on
the
second
floor,
where
an
unusable
flat
roof
now
exists
with
a
sizable
balcony
above
access
from
the
new
third
floor
patio
doors
in
order
to
utilize
as
much
outdoor
space
as
possible
to
enjoy
their
beautiful
property.
F
The
work
being
performed
to
the
front
and
rear
would
be
tied
together
with
the
removal
of
existing
vinyl
and
wood,
siding
on
the
remaining
sides
and
fiber
cement.
Siding
shall
be
provided
for
longevity
and
continuation
of
the
historic
aesthetic
of
the
home,
while
prolonged
maintenance.
Every
few
years
is
a
big
concern
for
the
family.
We
feel
as
if
we
found
a
balance
between
providing
a
respectful
restoration
in
the
historic
district
while
satisfying
the
modern
touches
the
family
needs.
As
a
member
of
the
evanston
community,
we
appreciate
your
time
and
consideration
of
our
submittal.
A
B
E
Have
a
question
this
is,
commissioner,
reinhold?
If
you
could
maybe
talk
about
a
little
bit
your
thought
process
of
the
addition
and
how
you
selected
the
flat
roof
with
the
roof
profiles
on
the
sides.
If
we
could
go
to
that
rear
yard,
rendering
cade,
that
would
be
helpful.
G
Is
this
what
you're
looking
for
susie
or
where
do
you
want
the
rendering.
F
F
F
H
F
Yes,
I
am
aware
of
that.
The
roof
plan
that
you
see
here
is
the
most
current.
Unfortunately,
I
had
been
passing
on
drawings,
decayed
and
we've
been
updating
them.
F
H
And
tell
me
again
why
you
didn't
want
to
just
do
the
simplest
thing
which
was
to
make
that
whole
flat
area
of
roof
balcony
and
not
have
those
little
strips
of
roof.
F
Per
the
direction
of
the
the
client
they
wanted
something
different
than
what
they
had
now
they
had
the
flat
roof.
It
was
not
aesthetically
pleasing
to
them,
so
they
did
want
from
the
two
sides
to
have
roof,
and
although
it
was
not
the
most
common
decision,
it
was
decided
to
go
with
the
roof
on
both
sides.
H
And
having
conceived
that
as
a
cutout,
I
wonder
why
the
little
triangles
that
are
painted
blue
in
the
front
plane
aren't
just
sighted
in
yellow
siding.
F
After
a
lot
of
consideration,
that
actually
is
a
better
idea
than
the.
I
think
it's
green,
a
shade
of
green,
that
we
have
so
that
it
doesn't.
F
F
Of
the
deck
down
below,
I
tried
matching
it
to
the
detail
that
we
have
in
in
the
front
of
the
house,
rather
than
the
porch
that
had
been
added
afterwards
with
not
much
architectural
detail.
F
A
H
B
F
Sure
I
have
not
studied
that,
but
that's
not
something
we
are
we're,
definitely
willing
to
try
different
color
schemes.
C
C
And
then
what
will
be
the
dimension
of
I
think
you're
going
to
use
a
fiber
cement
on
the
secondary
elevations.
I
F
H
Yeah,
I
think
you're
to
be
complimented
on
that,
although
you
should
understand
that
the
roof
over
the
porch
will
not
look
the
way
you've
drawn
it.
The
because
of
the
bay
as
the
roof
goes
back
against
that
slope.
It
will
ascend
so
that
the
roof
intersection
with
the
building
won't
be
a
straight
line
going
across
the
bay.
F
That's
a
good
catch.
Actually,
you
are
correct.
The
one
on
the
right
side
that
you
see
will
be
a
little
higher
due
to
that
bay
and
the
relief
back.
You
are
correct.
A
All
right
were
there
any
members
of
the
public
who
wanted
to
speak
to
this
matter.
J
Yes,
commissioner
jacobs
here,
if
we
could
backtrack
to
that
siding
question
at
the
corners,
did
I'm
looking
at
the
distance
exposed
to
the
weather
on
the
front
siding
as
well
as
the
sides,
and
I
can't
tell
for
sure,
but
it
looks
like
it's
in
the
three
inch
range
somewhere
around
that
mike
my
question
is
dude.
Is
the
fiber
cement
siding
that
you
intend
to
miter
the
corners
in?
F
There
actually
have
been
other
projects
that
we
have
used
this
material
on
and
they
do
have
various
sizes,
and
one
of
the
solutions
actually
is
to
rip
the
the
board
per
se
to
fit
the
size
that
you
need.
Okay,.
B
K
B
K
This
is
christopher,
do
you
need
my
address
or
what.
A
K
Oh
okay,
I'm
looking
at
the
slide
60
at
the
side
view
yeah
yeah.
Was
there
any
other
solution
for
the
area
in
the
back
there
where
the
masonry
ends
and
then
the
proposed
addition
area
begins.
F
H
Did
you
look
at
carrying
that
water
table
board?
That's
is
the
separation
between
the
siding
and
the
brick
around
the
house?
I
I.
F
Do
have
to
say
I
do
appreciate
the
the
ideas
you
are
giving
as
they
are
excellent
ideas
and
now
that
I'm
looking
at
it
and
you're
mentioning
that
extending
that
water
table
would
be
a
good
idea.
That
is
something
that
I
just
didn't
execute
on,
because
I
didn't
know
if
it
would
be
better
to
keep
that
same
color
and
profile
board
below
the
water
table,
or
do
I
change
the
color
and
then
what's
what
starts
happening
to
the
elevation?
Does
it
start?
Looking
like
you
know,
I'm
patching
pieces.
H
F
Do
understand
I
do
want
to
ask
one
question,
though,
if
we
encounter
specifically
in
that
area,
because
there
is
discussion
on
how
we
are
going
to
meet
the
foundation
wall,
because,
right
now,
that
area
is
narrower.
F
If
we
were
to
have
changes
in
that
area,
how
would
we
go
about
proposing
those
to
you
or
showing
them
to
you
after?
This
has
been.
H
Approved
you
know
that
that's
another
question.
I
guess
I
should
have
asked
your
plan
show
a
setback
which
would
be
a
vertical
line
on
the
in
this
elevation,
drawing
oh
you're,
not
sitting
back
on
this
side
of
the
opposite
side,
correct
yeah,
but
you're
residing
the
house.
So
why
is
how
you
meet
the
existing
a
problem?
F
I
don't
understand
sure
kade.
If
we
can
go
to
the
floor
plans
of
the
first
floor
existing
specifically
first
there
you
go.
So
if
you
take
a
look
that
existing
breakfast
area
on
the
bottom.
H
F
To
fit
at
one
point
that
was
on
the
right
side
lined
up
aligned
with
the
existing,
but
we
had
to
bring
that
back
because
of
the
setback
not
much
five
six
inches.
But
so
back
to
my
question,
the
question
was
we're
trying
to
figure
out
right
now
the
most
cost
effective
way
to
have
this
floor
plan
on
the
first
floor.
But
what
do
we
do
below?
A
To
answer
your
question:
you
can
come
back
to
kate
and
carlos
sure,
and
if
it's
not
terribly
material,
the
staff
can
approve
it.
Okay
and
sometimes
they'll.
You
know
informally
consult
a
commissioner,
but
it's
not
like
a
major
change.
The
plan
you
don't
have
to
come
back
to
the
commission
as
a
whole.
F
A
L
I'm
sorry
this
is
commissioner
dweller.
I
wanted
to
see
one
more.
I
was
waiting
for
you
all
to
finish
the
existing
for
the
second
floor,
or
for
the
back
rather
was
that
62.
L
Right,
I'm
looking
at
the
second
floor
existing,
so
it's
got,
it's
got
doors
but
but
the,
but
they
lead
out
to
a
roof
that
isn't
usable.
L
Was
there
any
discussion
of
perhaps
putting
larger
windows
there
kind
of
filling
it
in
a
little
bit
more
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
wall
that.
F
That
is
a
lot
of
wall,
I'm
trying
to
be
conscious
of
the
floor
plan
and
furniture
layout
on
the
interior
as
well,
and
if
I
show
you
some
of
the
previous
schemes
we've
had,
we
had
a
lot
of
windows
rather
than
a
wall
and.
F
So
obviously,
what
I
have
is
just
generic
if
they
want
to
put
a
bed
or
a
dresser,
but
if
they
want
to
put
anything
else,
we're
sort
of
running
out
of
wall
space
without
covering
windows,
which
is
a
piece
of
mine.
F
L
Has
a
different
proportion.
L
A
Thank
you
would
someone
like
to
make
a
motion
to
approve.
E
I
can
make
a
motion.
Thank
you
just
before
I
do.
Would
the
commissioners
like
me
to
make
recommendations
to
extend
the
water
table
at
the
first
floor
and
to
closely
match
the
existing
siding
and
the
corner
detailing?
Is
that.
H
I
I
would
like
to
see
the
third
floor
and
the
terrace
and
those
projecting
pieces
of
roof
re-studied
as
well.
A
B
E
Other
two
and
then
stewart
you're
what
we
can
see
what
happens
with
the
vote?
Sure?
Okay,
so
I'd
like
to
move
to
issue
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
for
case
number,
21,
prez-0053,
2119,
sherman
avenue
for
the
work
that
consists
of
construction
of
a
covered
front,
porch,
two-story,
rear
addition
and
an
alteration
of
the
existing
cladding,
with
the
recommendations
to
extend
the
water
table
at
the
first
floor
to
closely
match
the
existing
siding
exposure,
depth
and
the
corner
detailing
applicable
standards
include
alteration
1
through
10
and
construction
1
through
15.
A
Okay:
okay,
roll
call
vote,
commissioner,
idle.
M
A
N
N
B
A
F
F
H
It's
already
been
approved.
I
I
think
it's
so
much
better
to
not
have
those
funny
little
sections
of
roof
sticking
out
and
I
think
it
it
really
shows
to
the
detriment
in
the
perspective
rendering
that
you
have,
but
you
know,
you've
been
approved
and
you
are
the
designer
of
this
project.
So
it's
whatever
you
want
to
do
sure.
I
I
appreciate
that.
M
A
Okay
thanks,
you
know,
I
mean
you
know
obviously,
you're
welcome
to
listen
to
any
of
the
suggestions
and
decide
to
make
other
changes
and
come
back
to
okay.
G
J
F
Essentially,
you
would
be
if
you
see
that
little
wedge,
we're
gonna
have
to
return
it
there
you
go
so
it
it's
going
to
meet
the
roof,
but
it's
also
going
to
come.
It's
going
to
need
to
come
back
somewhere.
J
Okay,
thanks
for
showing
us
that
the
only
other
comment
I
was
going
to
have,
if
you
wanted
to
revisit
it,
whether
coming
back
to
us
or
an
administrative
approval,
would
be
if
you
on
this
particular
south
elevation.
Can
you
move
that
addition
in
a
foot
or
six
inches,
but
are
we?
Are
we
building
up
from
an
existing
one-story
building
there,
or
is
that
all
where
you
say
area
proposed
edition,
10
foot
11.?
That's
all
new.
F
Right
what
happens
is
on
the
inside
of
the
kitchen
I'm
losing
space
in
an
aisle
way
space
in
the
width
and
that's
why
I
need
it
as
as
wide
as
possible.
H
Again,
just
a
suggestion-
and
I
know
you're
cantilevering
all
of
this-
but
to
leave
the
corner-
unsupported,
I
think,
is
going
to
be
kind
of
awkward.
Looking
consider
a
masonry
pier,
there
sure
sure,
just
a
square
pier
holding
up
the
corner
that
would
have
the
the
water
table
running
all
the
way
across
and
returning
over
it
and
it
would
visually,
even
though
you
don't
need
it,
support
that
as
a
design
element
right.
F
A
You
next
matter
1005
forest.
O
O
O
The
new
entry
for
this
home
at
105
was
located
on
the
side
most
likely
out
of
convenience.
While
it
is
lovely
entry,
it
is
somewhat
hidden
from
the
street.
The
owner
wants
to
bring
a
new
entry
to
the
street.
That
is
more
visible
and
welcoming
to
do
this.
We
propose
a
new
portico
and
entry
door
at
the
north
west
corner
of
the
front
facade
with
the
new
sidewalk
leading
to
it.
O
Unfortunately,
we
find
serious
neglect
with
regards
to
the
exterior
elements.
Original
moldings
have
been
capped
with
aluminum
throughout
eaves
soffits
window
and
door.
Surrounds
aluminum
storms
were
installed.
The
windows
themselves
are
in
major
disrepair,
layers
and
layers
of
lead
paint.
The
wigs
for
the
satchels
have
almost
all
been
cut.
O
Very
few
windows,
even
open
mountains
and
sash
elements
have
been
damaged
and
destroyed.
The
box
frames
themselves
are
rotting
and
in
a
state
of
deterioration,
the
owner
needs
to
install
plastic
and
interior
the
most
of
the
windows
and
doors
every
winter.
To
help
fight
the
air
infiltration
due
to
the
condition
of
the
windows
and
doors
restoration
in
some
cases
is
possible.
O
O
E
On
page
113
of
your
submission,
you
have
a
comparison
between
the
original
other
half
and
then
the
proposed
front
porch.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
why
you
selected
to
do
that
type
of
column,
spacing
on
your
proposed
porch
and
not
match
what
was
on
the
original
other
half?
If
that
is
in
fact
original,
and
can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
column
profile
and
the
materials
of
the
columns
that
you're
proposing
the.
O
Maintenance-Free
use
and
we
thought
we
wanted
to
differentiate
our
porch
from
the
neighbors.
We
didn't
want
to
make
it
identical,
so
we
want
to
make
a
little
difference
and
added
double
columns
at
the
corners
and
two
interior
columns.
Now
that
there
is
a
requirement.
This
is
obviously
first
floor
is
elevated,
so
we're
gonna
have
to
have
railings
and
it
made
more
sense
to
put
two
middle
counts
to
make
it
more
symmetrical,
instead
of
one
column
on
the
left
side
of
the
door
and
then
having
a
wider
span.
O
B
H
Sam
to
compliment
you,
I
think
this
is
a
nice
job.
I
I
actually
like
the
front
porch
with
the
treatment
of
the
columns,
and
I
think
what
the
redundancy
of
the
columns
in
the
center
does
is.
It
sets
up
a
visual
zone
that
locates
the
front
door
and
locates
the
window.
I
mean
one
of
the
things
that
typically
happens
on
front
porches.
H
That
always
seemed
odd
to
me
was
the
fact
that
the
doorway
and
windows
on
the
back
surface
of
the
porch
never
seemed
to
have
a
relationship
to
the
column
spacing
which
of
course,
was
just
structural.
So
I
think
it's
a
nice
job.
H
The
only
comment
I
would
have
on
it,
which
again
is
a
design
suggestion,
is
that
I
don't
think
you
need
the
panel
under
the
double
hung
window
and
I
think
that
what
it
does
is
it
detracts
from
the
fact
that
you've
carefully
matched
that
double
hung
window
to
the
other
first
floor.
Double
hung
windows.
O
J
Commissioner,
jacobs
has
a
question.
The
the
this
is
actually
directed
toward
the
the
veteran
members
of
the
board
is:
what
is
the
current
precedent
in
terms
of
replacing
old
wood
windows
with
aluminum,
clad
wood.
A
B
H
Now,
john,
my
feeling
about
it
is
where
you're
replacing
all
the
windows
or
all
the
windows
in
a
facade.
You
know
we
certainly
understand
that
people
want
a
lower
maintenance
option.
The
only
thing
is
that
we
I
I
personally
have
a
problem
with
a
partial
replacement
with
clad
because,
as
you
as
an
architect
know
that
the
window
is
not
in
the
same
plane
as
the
historic
window
or
as
a
wood
window,
it's
actually
pulled
further
out
because
of
the
relationship
of
the
cladding
to
the
installation,
fins
in
the
siding.
B
C
Question
here
about
this,
about
the
windows
are
the
existing
storms?
Are
they
all
triple
track,
aluminum
or
any
of
them?
The
original
wood
storms.
O
O
Similarly,
divided
lights,
the
cavity
space
between
the
interior
and
and
exterior
mountains
have
a
filler
in
there.
So
it
looks
like
a
true
divider
light,
but
it's
a
single
pla,
pane
of
glass
and
it's
a
better
efficiency
glass.
That
way.
L
This
is
this,
is,
commissioner,
do
you
happen
to
have
sam?
Do
you
happen
to
have
a
an
image
of
these
windows?
I
I'm
sorry.
I
can't
remember.
O
L
But
the
the
what
was
it
123
that
you
went?
2K
yeah,
121.
P
O
O
I
you
know,
I
we
changed
those
two
over
the
entrance
only
because
the
mountains
were
those
those
are
narrower
windows
and
it
looked
kind
of
busy
with
dub
extra
mountains
there.
But
if
you
wish,
we
could
change,
you
know
match
the
existing.
If
you
want
all
the
methods
to
match
original.
P
H
Could
you
go
back
for
a
moment
to
the
elevation
of
the
french
doors
nope
nope,
that
that's
it
not
sheet9?
You
know.
I
totally
understand
people
not
wanting
to
divide
french
doors
because
of
a
view
out
to
a
deck.
I'm
I'm
wondering
if,
instead
of
the
standard
transoms
that
are
marketed
with
the
door,
if
you
went
to
a
casement
for
the
trans,
two
casements
for
the
transoms,
if
you
have
the
height
available
that
you
could
actually
do
those
as
divided
light.
O
P
No,
I
don't
necessarily
object
to
that
change.
I
think
stewart's
suggestion
is
interesting.
I'm
glad
the
one
on
the
one
side
is
just
a
drafting
error
and
I
think,
given
I
think,
given
all
the
rest
of
the
house,
I
think
the
two
on
the
front.
J
Okay,
one
quick
question
again
for
the
board:
if,
if
we're
going
to
end
up
the
commission,
if
we're
going
to
end
up
tacking
on
to
this,
with
some
comments
on
the
french
doors
that
we're
looking
at
here,
does
anyone
think
that
that
would
look
maybe
a
little
better
as
one
large
transom,
with
divided
light
and
not
chopped
into
the
two.
H
A
A
C
O
C
And
so
the
new
door
with
the
stained
glass
there,
then
that's
going
to
be
a
whole
new
design
element
that
you're
introducing.
A
Okay,
right,
stuart,
you
had
a
couple,
I
think
good
tweaks.
Do
you
want
to
try
to
make
the
motion
and
include.
H
Those
I
was
going
to
just
make
the
motion
incorporating
the
suggestions
that
ken
aldo
made
about
the
about
the
six
over
that
all
the
windows
be
six
over
one
window,
since
it's
independent
of
their
width.
H
Have
I
I
think
I
can
do
this?
Okay,
john.
This
is
the
hardest
part,
but
what
you
figure
out
is
that
you
just
read
from
the
agenda,
so
I
move
we
grant
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
alter
the
elevations,
replacing
original
wood.
True,
divided
light.
H
Our
windows,
double
hung
windows
with
aluminum
cloud
windows
with
simulated,
divided
lights
of
similar
profile,
configuration
all
windows
to
be
six
over
one
windows,
independent
of
window
width
and
replacement,
exterior
doors,
removal
of
two
windows
in
one
door
and
construction
of
a
new
portico
and
entry
door
at
the
front.
Elevation
applicable
standards
alteration
one
through
ten
and
construction,
one
through
15.
L
H
You
know
I
I
think
that
should
be
left
up
to
sam.
I
think
he's
done
my
job.
A
Okay,
all
right
we'll
take
a
roll
call
vote.
Commissioner
idol
aye,
commissioner
reinhold
aye
mr
drewtler
aye,
mr
cohen
aye,
mr.
A
A
Q
Q
Our
son
may
also
run
in
he's
three
and,
as
everyone
knows
crazy
times,
so
with
that
we're
proposing
to
build
a
two
and
a
quarter
car
garage
in
the
southwest
corner
of
our
lot
really
to
serve
kind
of
three
purposes,
one
of
which
is,
we
don't
have
a
garage
on
our
property
today
and
as
you're
aware
with
crazy
weather
events
right
last
year's
hail,
storm
directo.
Q
However,
you
pronounce
it
and
recent
snowstorm.
It
would
be
great
to
have
a
garage
two
as
we
want
as
we
contemplate
future
electric
vehicles.
You
know
today
we
wouldn't
have
a
way
to
house
them,
so
we're
looking
to
do
that
and
then
third
is
just
to
have
the
outdoor
storage
on
our
lot.
Today
there
is
a
plastic
utility
shed
which
really
isn't
very
aesthetically
pleasing,
so
we
would
eliminate
that
completely
and
then
use
the
garage
for
storage
of
lawn
equipment
outdoor
things
stuff,
like
that.
Q
So
all
told
relatively
simple
garage
design.
You
know
it's
a
it's
a
square
on
the
north
and
south
sides.
There
would
not
be
any
decoration,
it
would
just
be
the
standard
siding
that
you
would
see
and
then
on
the
eastward
facing
side,
which
is
what
you
see
on
your
screen
in
the
top
left,
you
would
have
a
pair
of
double
doors,
flanked
on
either
side
by
casement
windows.
This
is
very
much
in
a
style
to
reflect
the
primary
residence
itself,
the
house
and
then
on.
Q
The
westward-facing
side
is
the
garage
door
which
would
open
up
into
the
alleyway,
so
the
main
home
structure
would
not
be
manipulated
or
impacted
in
any
way.
By
this,
this
is
a
detached
garage
that
would
be
separate
and
then,
in
the
back
corner
of
our
lot
all
told
the
structure
will
be
wood
framed,
it'll
match
the
home
in
terms
of
colors
and
styles.
Thank
you
very
much.
Q
Q
One
thing
to
note:
the
the
garage
door
itself
will
not
be
in
that
style:
it
will
actually
stamp
shakers.
So
it'll
have
more
vertical.
Q
You
know
more
of
a
vertical
aesthetic
to
it,
versus
the
horizontal,
which
is
more
in
line
with
the
vertical
lines
of
the
windows
and
the
doors
and
the
property.
A
A
Just
to
I'm
sorry,
the
pictures
of
the
house
just
to
yeah
refresh
the
relationship.
Okay,.
E
Q
So
those
two
trees
there
we
have
a
cottonwood
which
is
relatively
old
and
then,
when
we
had
an
arborist
come
out,
he
told
us
that
this
tree
to
the
left
is
a
golden
rain
which
isn't
really
a
traditional
tree
that
we
see
much
in
evanston
and
just
because
he
said
it
was
so
rare.
I
didn't
want
to
mess
with
any
type
of
root
system
with
those
trees.
The
other
trees
that
would
be
affected
over
time
have
been
hacked
away.
Q
There's
really
not
much
more
to
it,
and
just
recently,
when
the
electric
company
came
out,
they
really
did
a
number
to
the
tops
of
them.
So
at
this
time
those
those
would
be
the
trees
that
we
would,
I
guess
so
to
sacrifice
in
this
in
this
project.
K
E
You
had
mentioned
that
you
were
going
to
try
to
match
the
exposure
of
the
home
siding.
Are
you
oh
yeah?
I
know
it's
difficult
to
match
a
mitered
corner
with
hearty
siding.
How
do
you
plan
to
do
you
plan
to
try
to
match
that
corner,
or
are
you
going
to
try
to
use
trim
boards
at
the
corners
of
the
garage.
Q
I
am
uncertain
how
hardy
board
works.
In
that
sense,
I
I
don't.
I
do
not
have
an
answer
to
that.
I
might
be
able
to
reach
out
to
the
builder
to
determine
how
they
would
handle
those
corners,
but
they
never.
They
did
not
bring
that
up
as
any
type
of
any
issue.
E
Q
Yeah,
so
it
wouldn't
pop
out
if
we
do
a
trim
board,
I
guess
my
preference,
although
your
guidance
is
appreciated,
would
be
that
we
would
do
it
in
the
same
color.
So
it
doesn't
have
that
so
that
it's
not
overly
accentuated,
because
the
main
home
itself
doesn't
have
those
vertical
lines.
H
You
one
one
comment
about
your
east
elevation:
the
the
windows
look
very
much
like
the
ones
we
were
looking
at
on
the
back
of
your
house,
which
I
I
appreciate,
but
the
trim
boards
are
much
larger
and
the
seal,
which
is
part
of
the
wider,
lower
trim
board
below.
H
I
think
it
would
be
helpful
just
to
the
relationship
between
the
two.
If
you
were
to
match
the
width
of
the
trim
boards
around
the
windows
yep.
Anybody
else
have
any
feelings
about
that.
L
This
is,
commissioner,
did
you
consider
some
kind
of
trim
that
would
bring
the
window
and
the
windows
and
door
together
as
a
system?
The
way
that
you
have
it
on
your.
Q
So
your
house-
I
we
contemplated
it,
but
I
think
more
so,
just
to
one
not
have
expansive
wall
areas
and
then
two
just
allow
for
better
distribution
of
light.
Within
the
structure
itself,
we
figured
the
separation
from
the
doors
was,
was
a
better
aesthetic.
Q
C
Yeah
I
would
like
to
just
go
on
the
record
that
I
think
that
the
treehouse
or
playground
area
should
be
carefully
salvaged,
preserved.
Q
C
H
K
Okay,
do
is
there
anything
in
the
drawing
that
you're
showing
here
that
somehow
refers
to
the
in
original
structure.
Q
C
I
move
to
issue
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
construct
a
detached,
two-car
garage
accessible
from
the
alley.
Oh
and
I'm
sorry,
this
is
for
the
property
located
at
1112,
asbury
avenue
in
the
ridge,
historic
district
and
it's
landmark
case
number
21,
prez-0057
and
the
applicable
standards
are
construction
numbers
one
through
five,
seven,
eight
ten,
three
thirteen.
A
C
C
M
Hi,
it's
it's
pauling
I'll,
be
speaking
on
1206
hinman,
I'm
the
owner,
nate
kipnis
is
the
architect.
M
M
Basically
an
interior
stair
entrance
to
get
to
the
to
the
second
story
and
the
exterior
exterior
materials
will
match
the
proposed
changes
to
the
main
house.
So
in
that
case,
hardy,
siding
and
and
then
you
know,
a
trim.
Some
trim
boards,
if
you
will,
the
design
of
the
of
the
accessory
dwelling
unit,
is
intended
to
match
the
style
as
well
of
the
main
house.
But
at
the
same
time
you
know
be
simple.
M
If
you
will,
which
I
think
was
feedback
that
I
received
when
we
were
going
through
the
design
of
the
main
house.
So
I
I
can
stop
there
and
just
kind
of
take
questions
on
on
the
proposal.
H
The
only
comment
I
have
is
about
the
two
dormers
that
have
gable
ends
above
them.
There's
no
feature
like
that
on
on
the
main
house
and
on
other
parts
of
the
well,
the
main
house
and
on
other
parts
of
the
garage
which
is
the
west
side.
H
You've
got
a
simple
shed
over
the
dormers,
and
I
think
that
that
the
east
facade
is
trying
a
little
bit
too
hard
by
popping
those
dormers
out
from
the
main
surface
of
the
building,
which
is
again
a
feature
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
main
house,
and
I
think
that
they
would
be
more
in
keeping
with
other
parts
of
the
garage
and
the
main
house
if,
rather
than
gables,
they
had
sheds
on
them.
H
M
Yep
understood,
thank
you,
I
think
the
so.
The
motivation
for
the
dormers
was
somewhat
to
match
that
that
front.
That
comes
out,
that
is
where
the
staircase
resides
and
another
aspect
of
it
was
simply
for
an
interior
space.
If
you
look
at
the
the
drawings
you'll
see
that
there's
basically
bench
seats
within
each
bedroom,
so
this
is
a
two
bed
one
bath
adu
and
there's.
M
There's
bench
seats
that
sit
within
that
and-
and
that
was
a
an
interior
design
element
that
that
I
liked.
H
M
Did
you,
and,
and
so
making
those
sheds
would
be
preferred
instead
of
matching,
if
you
will
that
that
front,
okay,
well,.
H
You
don't
have
a
feature
like
that
on
the
house,
the
gables
on
the
main
house
and
the
main
and
the
gables
on
the
big
gables
on
the
garage
are
similar
to
the
house,
whereas
there
are
no
dormers
that
have
gabled
roofs
over
them.
I
mean
that
that
I
just
think
that,
from
a
design
point
of
view,
I'm
not
sure
that,
from
a
relationship
point
of
view,
if
you're
looking
to
have
some
relationship
to
the
main
house,
I
think
it
would
be
better
simpler.
M
No,
I
get
it
you're
right
that
there
is
no
relationship
from
that
perspective
to
the
main
house.
It
was
really
meant
to
to
accent
that
front
that
front.
H
L
Well,
I
I'm,
I
noticed
the
dormer
dormers
right
away
and
I
saw
that
there
was,
or
it
didn't
seem
to
me
that
there
was
anything
on
the
main
house
that
justified
that
particular
roof
form.
So
if
you
were
to
put
the
shed
roof
on
those
dormers,
it
would
more
continue
the
what
you
have
on
the
main
house,
the
sort
of
continuous
eve
there
and
give
it
a
little
bit
more
of
a
feeling
of
that.
L
So
I
think
that's
the
from
my
perspective,
that's
what
was
bothering
is
too
strong
a
word,
but
what
kind
of
came
to
me
if
we're
done
with
the
dormer
conversation?
I
actually
wanted
to
ask
one
other
thing
said:
okay,
mark
yeah.
L
Yeah,
so
for
for
paul,
these
balconies.
M
L
So
that
that
struck
me
as
something
similar
to
the
to
the
dormers,
in
other
words,
I
understand
the
design.
The
reason
why
they
exist,
but
there
does
not
to
me,
seem
any
justification
on
the
main
house.
That
would
lead
us
to
expect
those
to
be
on
an
ancillary
structure.
Could
you
talk
about
that?
A
little
bit.
M
So
the
the
so
there's
two
of
them.
L
M
And
that
was
actually
initially
what
what
we
had
come
up
with
and
the
idea
there
was
just
to
have
basically
a
nice
balcony
for
for
the
master
bedroom.
M
When
we
then
started
to
look
at
the
design-
and
specifically
there
was
a
utility
pole
that
was
frankly
in
the
way
we
needed
to
pull
the
house
further
south
of
the
adu
further
south,
and
so
with
that,
give
the
opportunity
to
to
move
the
entrance
over
to
that
side
to
the
north
side
and
then
there's
there's
living
space
over
there
there's
a
dining
room
and
so
having
the
thank
you
having
that.
Second
balcony
provides
a
lot
of
light
into
into
that
main
living
space.
M
I
guess
motivations
for
it,
you're
right
that
there
are
no
balconies
that
there's
only
decks
on
the
main
house.
There's
no
balconies
on
the
main
house.
L
M
Yeah
there
is,
I
mean,
there's
no
second,.
M
This
is
a
second
floor
accessory
dwelling
unit
and
with
that,
in
order
to
provide
some
type
of
exterior
living,
you
know
attached
to
the
house
that
you
know
this
seemed
like
an
appropriate
way
to
do
that.
I
I
don't
I
don't
in
terms
of
relating
it
back
to
the
main
house,
I
I
don't
have
really
anything
else
to
say.
M
H
P
Yeah,
I
guess
I
I'd
just
like
to
make
kind
of
a
global
point
where
I
I
don't
think
I
that
the
intent
of
the
standards
is
really
to
force
people
to
make
a
mini
version
of
their
house
when
they
build
an
adu.
I
mean,
I
think,
there's
many
aspects
of
this
design
that
are
stylistically
very
different
from
the
house,
but
like
the
way
the
roof
line
is
handled
the
slope
of
the
roof.
P
The
way
the
second
floor
meets
the
eve
line,
the
massing
the
window
styles,
the
balconies
I
can
go
on
and
on
there's
a
lot
of
variation,
and
I
don't
but
my
point
is
that
I
don't
care,
I'm
not
bothered
by
any
of
that.
It's
more
is
this
adu
dwelling
as
a
structure
in
the
historic
district
compatible
with
the
district
as
a
whole,
and
I
think,
in
my
opinion,
it
is,
I
think
it
meets
the
intent
of
the
standards
and
the
fact
that
it's
different
than
the
main
house,
I
don't
think
I'm
bothered
by
it.
P
It's
large
enough
of
a
building
that
it
sort
of
feels
like
its
own
freestanding
house
almost.
So
I
don't.
I
don't
think
it
makes
sense
to
redesign
it
and
make
it
look
like
a
mini
version
of
the
main
house
in
some
ways
that
might
be
more
objectionable
than
just
something
that
has
its
own
identity
in
its
own
style.
C
I
have
another
question
the.
Can
you
remind
me
the
plans
for
the
main
house.
Are
you
going
back
to
siding
on
the
main
house
from
the
stucco.
A
M
I
just
wanted
to
to
actually
mention
it
and
it's
in
the
in
the
packet.
The
the
second
garage
especially,
is
pretty
much
right
on
the
the
property
line
with
our
neighbors
to
the
to
the
north
yeah.
Thank
you
so
doug
and
susan.
We
know
well
and
we've
spoken
to
them
about
this
project
and,
as
you
can
see,
they're
they're
very
much
in
favor
of
it.
So
just
just
wanted
to
like
that.
In
terms
of
public
comment.
P
Okay,
I
move
we
issue
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
for
the
project
at
1206,
hinman
avenue,
a
demolition
of
two
existing
detached
garages
and
construction
of
a
two-story
accessory
dwelling
unit
with
first
floor
parking
and
second
floor
living
space
standards
for
construction,
one
through
five,
seven,
eight,
ten,
eleven
thirteen
and
fourteen
and
demolition
one
through
five
are
applicable.
P
A
Second,
okay,
okay,
nick
stewart
got
the
second
there's
a
tie.
A
Yeah
roll
call
vote.
Commissioner
idol
right,
commissioner
reinhold
aye.
Commissioner
drawler
aye,
commissioner
cohen
aye,
mr
beaudin
aye,
commissioner
morris
aye,
mr
jacobs
aye,
and
I'm
an
thank
you
very
much.
A
G
No,
they
both
they
both
confirmed
that
the
architect
and
the
contractor
would
would
present.
So
I'm
not
I'm
not
certain.
A
Okay,
maybe
we
should
just
continue
to
give
them
one
continuance.
A
D
Mark
it's
possible
that
they
thought
that
the
langmuir
nomination
would
go
first.
Maybe
they
thought
and.
C
I
A
D
A
For
1027
johnson
has
kevin
panic
or
the
contractor
joined.
R
Yes,
I
was
not
going
to
be
making
the
presentation
that
was
going
to
be
made
by
paul
armstrong.
The
contractor.
A
Paul
we
can
see
her
twice.
Can
you
you
can't
speak.
S
S
You
go
okay,
I
can
see
you
stir.
Thank
you,
hi
paul,
I
apologize
heather.
I
apologize
I'd
like
to
thank
the
commissioners
and
I
believe
on
the
last
one
here
this
evening.
S
S
They
they're
moving
in
they've,
lived
in
chicago
for
quite
a
while
they're
moving
in
and
looking
forward
to
construction
on
judson,
and
they
have
a
small
child
about
a
one-year-old
and
they're
expecting
in
august.
So
we're
looking
forward
to
starting
construction
soon.
Hopefully
you
can
see
on
the
we
can
sort
of
move
through
this.
We
had
some
comments
that
came
back
early,
so
we
spent
some
time
addressing
those.
S
The
original
house
didn't
have
the
front
porch
when
it
was
built
in
circa,
the
late
1800s
there's
no
information
on
the
original
architect,
the
early
in
the
1900s
between
1900
and
1920.
There
was
an
addition.
One
story
edition
put
on
the
south
side.
S
S
S
After
these
additions
were
put
on,
especially
the
front
porch,
you
could
tell
that
the
style
which
was
sort
of
developed
I'd
call.
It
could
be
a
bunch
of
different
names,
I'd
sort
of
call
it
a
far
american
farmhouse
and
so
we're
taking
into
account
that
sort
of
style
we're
trying
to
bring
it
up
to
date,
especially
on
the
inside,
but
as
we're
concerned
on
the
outside
here
and
we've
tried
to
take
some
of
the
characteristics
that
are
on
really
the
front
elevation.
That's
probably
the
most
detailed
elevation
of
the
existing
house.
S
The
existing
house
is
all
vinyl
siding,
we're
going
to
be
putting
on
a
fiber
cement
board,
siding
that
would
pick
up
some
of
the
same
details
that
we
believe
is
underneath
the
vinyl
when
we
take
it
off
the
asphalt
shingles
are
red
that
around
the
house,
we're
going
to
upgrade
to.
As
you
can
see,
the
front
elevation
continues
the
front
pitch
just
slightly
to
give
it
a
little
bit
of
interest
and
we're
going
to
go
with
a
architectural
grade
asphalt,
shingle
that
is
not
colored.
Just
a
darker
color,
charcoal
color.
S
You
can
see
the
columns
at
the
front
of
the
house
and
in
the
perspectives
that
you
saw,
there
was
one
perspective
that
was
done
incorrectly,
which
was
the
first
one,
but
we
put
it
in
there
anyway,
so
you
could
get
a
flavor
on
the
perspective
of
the
existing
columns
and
how
they
relate
to
the
proposed
new
columns.
S
Again
part
of
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish
is
to
sort
of
update
a
farm
style
house
and
try
to
go
with
simpler
architectural
details,
especially
as
it
relates
to
the
front
screen.
Porch.
S
S
Why
don't
I
do
that?
The
front
facade
pretty
much
stays
the
same.
With
the
exception
of
the
columns
at
the
screen
porch,
the
south
facade,
you
can
see
on
the
bottom
side
that
is
the
existing
and
the
top
is
the
facade
that
we're
proposing
and
you
can
see
that
we've
reduced
some
of
the
windows
on
that
one
story
edition
that
was
done
in
the
early
1900s
and
we've
tried
to
bring
the
character
of
the
front
elevation
to
the
side.
S
H
Well,
can
you
tell
me
about
the
area
of
the
edition
that
looks
like
it
has
a
flat
roof
on
it,
but
doesn't
show
as
a
flat
roof
in
the
roof
plans?
The.
S
This
is
the
new
the
new
addition.
Yes,
so
you
can.
You
can
see
essentially
on
the
lower
one,
the
right
side
of
that
cable,
where
we're
removing
the
old
edition
and
then
on
the
addition
that
we're
putting
on
we've
designed
it
to
look
as
as
a
clip
gable,
so
it
is
a
slightly
flat
roof
up
at
the
top
at
the
35-foot
mark
did
I
did.
I
understand
the
question.
H
S
So
the
the
almost
flat
section
in
the
plan
is,
if
you
look,
if
you
look
stuart
to
the
let's
call
it
almost
the
center
of
the
roof
where
it
comes
together
right
there.
It's
an
angle,
it's
drawn
as
a
very
slow
slope,
but
it's
basically
flat.
So
if
we
take
that
angle
off
of
or
that
angle
that's
drawn
in
there,
the
portion
that's
flat
would
run
from
essentially
the
center
of
the
entire
mass
on
the
south
or
on
the
lower
part
of
the
screen.
H
So
so
that
that
area
is
flat,
even
though
that's
an
error
arrow
showing
a
slope
and
then
immediately
to
the
left
of
that
ridge
line,
that's
a
single
slope,
that's
going
w!
The
elevation
shows
a
flat
and
then
a
slope
going
down
that.
I
can't
find
on
this
floor
on
this
plan
and
I'm
not
sure,
then
what's
happening
in
terms
of
the
way
the
ridge
over
the
main
table
at
front
of
the
house
comes
back
and
then.
H
H
Back
to
the
what's,
what's
that
little,
that's
that's
nearly
flat!
What.
H
S
You
say
when
you
say
the
little
portion,
that's
sloping
towards
you.
Are
you
talking
about
the
the
main
that
the
35
foot
high
mark?
Let
me
see
if
I
can.
H
Well,
I'm
assuming
that
it
all
cuts
off
at
the
thr
there's
some
steps
going
up
to
an
area
that
has
lots
of
little
columns
holding
up
something,
I'm
not
sure
what
and
then
above
it
as
you
go
all
the
way
up
to
the
the
to
the
eve
line.
H
There
are
two
double
hung:
windows,
that's
the
part
I'm
talking
about
and
above
that
gutter
I
mean
this
is
too
small
on
my
screen
to
read,
but
above
that
gutter
there's
an
area-
and
I
can't
read
the
note,
but
I
think
it
says
asphalt,
shingles
yeah.
H
S
Yeah,
so
the
proposed
we
reduced
the
amount
of
flat
roof
because
taking
off
the
structure,
you
can
see
the
up
at
the
gable
of
that,
let's
say
existing
gable.
It
says
new
construction
to
the
right
existing
construction
to
the
left.
H
And
is
that
all
sloping
towards
the
thing
that
says
existing
remodeled.
S
S
It
might
help
explain
the
side
elevation
a
little
bit
better.
S
So
if
we
look
at
this
rear
elevation,
you
can
see
that
the
third
floor
has
a
shed
dormer
that
comes
out,
and
it's
sloping
almost
from
the
peak,
which
would
be
the
the
flat
roof
portion.
S
H
On
the
rooftop
right
hand,
side
there's
a
little
section
with
a
gable
over
it
and
then
right
behind
that
there's
something
that
has
a
kind
of
clipped-off
thing.
That's
labeled
new
asphalt,
shingles.
S
H
S
Are
you
referring
to
the
the
actual
3d
models.
B
H
J
I
I
I
would,
can
we
flip
down
to
those
renderings.
R
S
Just
looking
at
the
rear
elevation,
thank
you,
kate,
the
you
can
see
when
and
these
were
done
before
for
the
actual
submittal,
and
then
we
had
some
comments
that
came
back
and
we
went
to
improve
that
rear
elevation,
but
this
still
gives
us
an
idea
of
where
you
can
see
the
flat
roof,
and
so,
if
you
take
this
to
that
elevation
that
we
were
just
looking
at
the
gable,
that's
on
the
right
side,
we
reduced
the
plate
heights
on
the
second
floor,
to
bring
it
down,
but
you
can
see
then
above
it,
the
mass
of
the
roof
which
we
also
brought
down,
has
a
clipped
I'd,
call
it
a
clip
cable
to
it
and
that's
what
we
were
looking
at
on
the
straight
line:
elevation.
H
But
but
the
side
that's
shown
angled
away
from
us
on
the
left
is
not
clipped,
but
the
other
side
does
have
a
a
little
clip
where
it
exposes
a
angled
surface.
S
Yeah,
very
yes,
very
slightly
and
and
on
the
left
side,
I'm
sorry
go
back
to
the
rear
elevation.
So,
on
the
left
side
you
can
see
where
you
have
just
yeah
the
flat
portion
there.
That
is
also
a
clipped
cable
on
both
sides,
but
the
rear
side
has
the
gable
that
comes
down
to
the
the
porch
there's
a
little
balcony.
That's
above
the
second
story.
S
Way
on
the
roof
plan:
well,
it's
difficult
to
see
because
the
roof
plan
is
showing
it
as
an
actual
construction
plan.
Unfortunately,
so
the
angle
that's
on
or
the
lines
that
are
drawn
on
an
angle
for
like
this,
the
connection
or,
I
should
say,
the
joint
between
the
flat
roof
heading
north
west
or
north
south
into
the
roof
plane.
That's
headed
to
the
east
has
an
angle
because
the
sloped
insulation,
it
has
a
slight
slope
to
it.
Obviously,
it's
not
completely
flat
and
unfortunately
that's
what
that
drawing,
I
believe,
is
showing.
H
The
other
question
that
I
had
and
can
you
go
up
to
219
the
rendering
okay,
the
the
we're
seeing
a
little
bit
of
the
dormer
and
then
we're
seeing
something
that
looks
like
a
hip
that
that
is
almost
corresponding
to
the
ridge?
On
the
on
the
side
facing
gable
and
in
the
elevation
drawings,
there
seems
to
be
a
flat
surface
there.
Unless
I'm
misreading
the
drawing.
H
Yeah,
if
you
look
at
the
very
top
it
says,
that's
proposed,
so
I
am
on
the
right
drawing
it
says:
vinyl
siding
four
inch
typical.
Where
is
that
it's
vertical
surface.
H
Yeah
yeah
that's
got
siding
on
it.
Where
was
that
in
the
roof
plan
and
in
the
other
other
renderings?
Well,
it's
not
there
in
that
one.
I.
S
Think
what
we're
seeing
there
if
you
go
back
there
is
a
side
of
the
it's,
not
the
side.
H
S
R
H
You
know
I
I
I
just
want
to
understand
this
and
it
is
complicated
and
I'm
sort
of
getting
there,
although
I
get
thrown
every
time.
Drawings
don't
agree
with
other
drawings,
but
I
think
that
that
maybe
the
idea
of
the
rendering
was
was
missed.
H
That
asking
for
what
was
really
asked
for
was
a
three-dimensional
representation
and
I
think
a
a
top
viewer,
an
thing
called
an
axon,
a
metric
that
shows
would
show
the
roof
forms
and
the
dormers
and
how
all
these
pieces
come
together,
because
in
the
roof
plan,
I'm
totally
confused
by
how
things
intersect
one
another,
whereas
a
a
kind
of
volumetric
top-down
view
of
this
might
explain.
All
of
that.
C
H
B
C
Agree,
I
think
that
there's
some
revisions
that
there's
some
coordination
issues
with
this.
With
the
what
we've
been
presenting
we've,
what
we've
been
presented,
I'm
seeing
a
lot
of
new
vinyl
siding
on
the
elevations
and
but
then
I
think
I
heard
in
the
presentation
that
they
were
gonna
instead
of
the
vinyl
siding
than
to
do
the
hardy
board.
C
I
think,
but
then,
when
I'm
looking
at
the
drawings,
I
don't
see
that
and
in
the
description
of
the
case,
I
don't
see
that,
in
addition
to
the
many
issues
that
commissioner
cohen
brought
up
just
about
drawing
coordination
between
different
views-
I
I
I
might
suggest
you
know
coming
back
with
a
better
coordinated
set,
so
everyone
can
fully
understand
the
real
intent
of
the
of
the
project.
A
I
I
think
we
should
also,
I
mean,
to
the
extent
we're
going
to
ask
the
applicant
to
come
back
with
more
easily
understood
drawings.
I
think
we
should
also
focus
on
substantive
issues,
because
if
he
does
all
the
work
he
comes
back
and
we
turn
it
down.
So
I
I
want
to
go
back
to
beth,
raise
the
point,
so
I
I
could
swear
you
said
in
the
presentation
you
were
replacing
with.
Was
it
hardy
board
and
then
the
the
drawings
all
show
vinyl.
S
S
Okay:
okay,
because
of
the
fact
that
the
current
structure
was
all
vinyl
siding,
our
initial
submittal
was
to
match
what
was
existing
on
the
structure.
S
We
believe-
and
I
believe
there
was
a
comment
that
came
back-
that
it
would
be
nice
to
be
able
to
remove
all
the
existing
vinyl
siding
and
take
probably
the
siding
behind
it
off
and
make
it
a
much
more
substantial
project,
but
to
go
with
a
fiber
cement
board
in
lieu
of
matching
the
vinyl
siding.
S
So
is
that
your
proposal,
though,
and
that
would
be
on
the
entire
house?
We
did
change
that
and
we
changed
that
because
we
we
felt
it
was
an
improvement
and
we
believe
that
that
would
be
received
as
an
improvement.
But
we
we
can
continue
and
match
the
current
vinyl
siding
it's
it's
not.
I
mean
it's
vinyl
siding,
but
it
doesn't
look
bad.
It's
good-looking,
vinyl,
siding.
A
If
that's
what
you
wish
to
do,
that
would
be
preferable,
so
the
I
mean
I
guess
another
just
issue
is
that
the
new
standing
seam
metal
roof,
whether
it's
you
know
got
any
I
mean.
I
know
we
see
that
in
on
judson
on
some
brand
new
homes,
you
know
query
weather
it's
appropriate
for
a
historic
home.
I'm
not
sure
people
feel
about
that.
I
guess
also
on
the
I'm
sorry,
I'm
now
losing.
Is
it
the
south
facade
with
the
where
there
were
windows
and
there
now
is
a?
A
S
There
were
yeah,
there
were
two
things
going
on
there.
We
we
felt
that
there
were
quite
a
few
windows
in
that
elevation
and
we
were
adding
windows
above
just
because
we
are
changing
the
inside
of
the
structure
to
be
a
little
different
than
what
it
is
currently,
and
we
also
felt
that
those
windows
helped
the
elevation
above
then
from
a
functional
standpoint
on
the
inside.
A
A
H
We
see
the
third
floor
plan
before
we
leave
this
the
floor
plan
of
the
third
floor.
I
okay,
okay
yeah,
that
answers
my
question.
I
want
I
it.
It
looks
like
it's
basically
a
counted
asm
as
a
name
because
of
the
percentage
of
the
floor
below.
So
it's
not
something
where
you
need
a
second
means
of
egress.
That's
all.
I
wanted
to
make
sure
about.
B
J
I
have
a
few
questions
about
the
the
roof
massing
itself,
particularly
you
know
in
in
the
rear
area
there-
and
you
mentioned
that
this
is
this-
is
a
resubmission.
Is
this
a
resubmission
to
this
board,
where
we
we
requested
that
some
of
the
massing
be
brought
down.
G
J
Okay,
I
understand
now
and
then
I
would
like
to
know
hear
from
some
of
the
board
members
their
feelings
on
the
on
the
truncated,
gable
forms
and
and
the
hipped
truncated
gable
form.
I
don't
know
that
there's
any
easier
solutions
here,
but
it
it
does
read
like
zoning
kind
of
took
precedent
and
doesn't
feel
particularly
sensitive
to
the
existing
home
at
the
in
its
current
state.
H
Is
is
this
the
point
at
which
it's
appropriate
to
ask
if
you
looked
at
simpler
roof
forms
with
large
shed
dormers
to
to
gain
headroom
because,
as
john
has
pointed
out,
nicely,
the
forms
and
the
angles
and
the
stuff
whether
it
relates
to
the
house
or
not,
is,
is
certainly
awkward.
Looking.
S
We
have
looked
at
a
few
different
things.
One
of
the
challenges,
as
you
can
see
with
this
house,
is
the
fact
that
we
have
a
constraint
in
terms
of
the
maximum
height
and
the
house.
S
First
floor
is
substantially
above
the
existing
grade
and
then
the
first
floor
is
is
is
more
than
nine
feet,
so
it
gets
to
the
point,
and
you
can
sort
of
see
that
on
the
existing
rear
elevation
below
where
they
tried
to
do
sort
of
a
you
know,
a
normal
looking
hip
or
a
normal
looking,
I
should
say,
roof
to
the
north
side,
but
then
to
the
south,
tried
to
make
it
like
a
shed
dormer
feel
and
we
weren't.
S
It
was
difficult
to
be
able
to
maneuver
on
the
third
floor,
to
even
have
a
volume
that
you
weren't,
hitting
your
head
and
essentially
every
place
trying
to
get
to
the
shed
dormer,
and
we
did
take
a
couple
of
shed
dormers
off.
I
should
point
out
because
we
felt
that
it
was
becoming
too
many
elements
of
of
shed
dormers.
On
the
third
floor,
I
think
we
took
one
off
facing
the
north
end.
S
S
So
it's
you
know
a
little
bit
of
that.
Siding
comes
out
of
the
the
existing
roof
yeah
right
right,
where
the
there
you
go
right.
H
Right,
yeah,
yeah:
well,
that's
a
vertical
wall
surface
that
you'll
see
from
the
front,
but
I
have
no
idea
what
that
little
angle
piece
that
comes
off
the
ridge
looks
like
because
we
did.
I
don't
think
we
saw
it
in
any
of
the
front
representations,
because
it's
actually
going
up
at
an
angle,
but
it's
not
clear
what
it's
going
up
against.
H
S
Right
and
if
you
go
back
there,
okay,
so
the
we
modified
from
the
stairwell,
we
wanted
to
create
an
element.
This
was
one
of
the
areas
that
we
had
a
shed
roof
originally,
and
there
were
quite
a
few
shed
roofs
to
try
to
again
get
that
headroom
on
the
on
the
third
floor,
and
that
element
is
the
stairwell
that
is
a
switchback
stairwell.
S
It
goes
up
to
the
third
floor
and
we
felt
that
introducing
that
as
its
own
element
helped
break
up
that
elevation
and
also
was
able
to
give
us
a
solution
so
that
you
can,
you
can
see
the
the
plate
height.
That's
there,
those
those
are
three
foot
play
heights
on
the
third
floor,
and
so
it's
difficult
as,
as
you
know,
to
get
enough
headroom
at
a
certain
point,
all.
A
Right,
you
know
we,
I
think.
P
I
just
want
to
make
one
kind
of
general
point.
I
mean
I
think
the
the
north
elevation
kind
of
reveals
the
difficulty
here,
which
is
that
you
see
the
original
house
which
has
a
fairly
low
eave
height
and
a
low
roof
line,
and
then
all
of
the
additions
on
the
back
are
just
at
a
much
different
scale,
trying
to
punch
up
and
create
a
huge
third
floor
volume
and
doing
a
lot
of
complicated
roof
geometries
to
try
and
make
that
third
floor
usable.
P
P
S
P
S
S
I
could
go
into
a
whole
issue
of
problems
related
to
you
know,
head
heights
and
structure
and
and
things
with
this
house
that
if
we
march
down
that
this
could
be
pretty
close
to
a
candidate
to
say,
let's
start
over,
and
I
know
that
the
the
homeowners
you
know
fell
in
love
with
what
they
saw
with
this
house
and
they've
tried
very
hard
to
be
able
to
recreate
the
third
floor
that
they
purchased
and
be
able
to
do
something
that
helps,
maintain
and
save
this
house
from
and
help
it.
S
A
All
right
I
mean,
would
you
like
to
I
mean
I
don't
think
we're
going
to
approve
it
tonight
and
it
and
it
certainly
got
both.
You
know
problems
with
the
the
drawings
and
then
just
at
least
at
this
point
questions
commissioners
have
about
you
know
a
lot
of
design
elements.
Do
you
want
to
try
to
bring
it?
You
know,
have
us
continue
and
bring
it
back
next
month.
S
If
we
do
that,
are
you
asking
me?
Yes,
I
think
if
we
do
that
and
I'd
maybe
like
to
ask
my
clients,
but
if
we
do
that,
I'd
like
to
ask
some
more
questions
so
that
we're
sure
we're
you
know,
we
don't
we're
not
here
at
the
same
point
next
month.
I
guess
is
what
I'm
saying.
G
I
would,
I
would
recommend
mark
that
you
give
them
some
specific
standards
of
concern
to
review.
E
I
can
I
can
add
to
that.
Actually,
my
my
thought
is
the
construction
standards,
three,
which
is
proportion
of
openings
standard,
two
which
is
proportion
of
facades,
standard,
seven
is
relationship
of
material
and
texture
and
then
standard
eight
is
roof.
Shape
shall
be
visually
compatible
with
the
structure.
E
A
Yeah,
I'm
sorry
paul,
it's
it's
not
a
situation
where
I
think
we
could
reduce
it
to
two
or
three
suggestions.
I
think
it's
really
I
mean
beyond
the
issues
of
the
drawing,
is
just
really
asking
you
to
rethink
it,
and
I
don't
know
if
you
have
any
other
specific
questions
I
mean
you
can.
S
Yeah,
I
guess
so
so
let
me
start
with
a
specific
question
regarding
the
flat
roof.
Is
it
is
that
an
issue,
or
is
it
just
that
it
was
difficult
to
see
where
the
flat
roof.
P
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think
the
issue
is,
it
looks
like
what
it
is,
which
is
the
house
wanted
to
have
a
sloped
roof
and
it
got
lopped
off
to
the
zoning,
and
so
it
doesn't
look
like
an
intentional
design
feature.
It
looks
like
what
it
is,
which
is.
The
house
is
just
arbitrarily
lopped
off
at
a
flat
plane
and
it
has
no,
it
doesn't
relate
to
the
style
or
design
of
the
house.
It's
just
completely.
S
Okay,
so
it
sounds
like
to
me
that
what
we're
saying
is-
and
I
I
know
this-
because
it's
a
difficult
situation
with
the
basement
being-
you
know
out
of
the
ground-
that
much
and
the
maximum
35
feet
that
we're
trying
to
work
with
that.
We
should
basically
truncate
the
attic,
and
so
I
guess
my
next
question
on
that.
S
The
if
we,
if
we
go
to
the
the
rear
elevation,
I'm
trying
to
anticipate
questions,
I'm
going
to
be
asked
by
my
clients
if
we
go
to
the
rear
elevation
and
look
down
at
the
one
on
the
bottom,
that's
the
existing
rear
elevation
and
you
can
see
that
the
main
change
that
we're
adding
is
the
area.
That's
where
the
porch
currently
exists,
and
then
the
bedroom
above
it
that
just
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
fit
that
in
to
that
corner
and
then
we're
just
trying
to
create
an
entrance
way.
S
S
S
H
S
A
You
know,
I
don't
think
it's
going
to
be,
I
mean
I
appreciate
often
we
can
give
some
immediate
feedback
on
particularly
specific
issues,
but
it
just
seems
like
there's
so
much
that
needs
to
be
looked
at
here
that
it's
just
not
going
to
be.
I
mean
I
think
it's
going
to
be
something
you're
going
to
have
to
go
back
and
much
more
carefully.
Consider
and
it's
just
not
you
know.
Unfortunately,
it's
just
not
there's
too
much
going
on
for
the
commission
to
give
you
kind
of
a
real,
valuable
insight.
A
You
know
one
thing
you
can
do
is
try
to
come
back
with
design
before
a
meeting
and
see
if
it's
possible
to
give
any.
You
know
any
comment
as
part
of
the
review
process,
but
I
think
you
have
to
bring
it
back
and
I
think
we've
talked
about
what
we
can
realistically
accomplish.
S
S
Would
that
and
I
know
it
other
things
come
into
play,
but
I'm
looking
at
just
the
roof
line
of
that
existing
structure.
That's
there
would
that
roofline
be
acceptable.
I
don't
like
it.
I
know
you
don't
like
it,
but
from
a
standpoint
of
being
a
you
know,
meeting
guidelines
because
it's
an
existing
roof
structure.
A
E
H
Well,
I
just
wanted
to
understand
it.
I
think
that
you
know
I
think
ken
was
being
polite
by
describing
it
as
a
kind
of
calamity.
I
think
that
the
problem
may
be
trying
to
put
you
know
five
pounds
of
house
in
a
in
a
or
ten
pounds
of
house,
in
a
five
pound
thing,
and-
and
I
think
that
the
the
whole
for
me,
the
whole
edition,
would
have
to
be
rethought,
and
I
am
not
the
designer
here.
I
mean
that
agreed,
but
I
think.
H
The
architect-
and
they
should
see
what
he
can
do.
I.
E
Think
if
we
pick
k2
commissioners,
we
can
maybe
set
up
a
little
bit
of
some
guidance,
not
design
help,
but
we
can
maybe
provide
hopefully
some
clarifications
of
the
standards
and
and
give
that.
I
don't
think,
as
mark
said,
I
don't
think
tonight
is
we're
gonna
find
that
I
think
we
have
other
things
still
on
the
agenda
that
that
need
to
be
addressed.
S
I'd
really
appreciate
that,
and
it
wouldn't
be
a
redesign
or
working
with
us.
From
that
standpoint,
it
would
be
a
commissioner
or
two
commissioners,
as
you've
suggested
that
can
look
at
what
we've
done
and
from
a
standpoint
of
how
how
they
look
at
things
coming
through
the
commission
so
that
we're
not
waiting
another
month
after
that,
if
something's
not
received
properly
okay.
A
A
A
Okay,
a
second
second,
okay.
We
need
a
roll
call
vote
still,
commissioner
idol
all
right,
commissioner
reinhold
aye,
commissioner
drowler
aye,
mr
cohen
aye,
commissioner
bowden
commissioner
morris.
B
S
A
All
right,
so,
finally,
we
have
a
hearing
on
the
proposed
landmark
nomination.
Then
colors
do
we
need
to
actually
vote
to
open
the
hearing?
How
do
we
proceed
through
this
or
just
declare
the
hearing
open?
You.
D
E
A
Okay,
so
we
need
a
wrong
call
vote.
Commissioner,
idol
hi,
commissioner
reinhold
hi.
A
Jacobs
hi
and
commissioner
simon,
I
all
right
so
procedurally
we'll
have
the
the
the
the
the
the
the
person
making
the
nomination
present
their
nomination
and
any
evidence
they
wish
to
present.
A
We'll
then
have
they
just
commissioned
questions
for
the
about
the
nomination,
then
we'll
have
the
owner
have
the
opportunity
to
respond
and
present
evidence.
We'll
then
ask
any
questions
of
them
and
we'll
then
have
any
public
comment
and
then
any
commissioned
discussion
and
you.
B
A
Have
an
opportunity
to
vote
tonight.
So
if
the
I
guess
says
andrew
neville,
okay,
yeah,
I'm.
T
Here:
okay
hi,
my
name
is
andrew
nebel.
First,
I
want
to
thank
everyone
for
taking
the
time
to
consider
the
nomination
to
create
a
new
landmark
in
our
city
at
2715
heard
avenue.
T
I
also
want
to
thank
kade
for
his
great
support
and
also
the
city
staff
in
the
clerk's
office,
for
helping
me
with
the
freedom
of
information
act
request.
T
I'm
also
really
heartened
to
know
that
you
guys
have
taken
the
time
out
to
come
out
to
the
church
property
and
look
at
it
as
you've
been
considering
this
proposal.
It
really
means
a
lot
to
me.
I'm
a
neighbor
to
the
church
and
I've
always
loved
having
the
church
in
our
neighborhood
and,
as
you
all
know,
the
second
church
of
christ.
Scientist
has
been
looking
for
a
buyer
for
this
property.
T
For
some
time,
when
I
learned
that
the
most
recent
proposal
had
included
tearing
down
the
church,
I
decided
to
look
into
whether
there
might
be
a
reason
not
to
do
so.
So
I
loved
this
church
and
it
never
occurred
to
me
that
it
would
be
or
could
be
knocked
down.
It
is
just
such
a
wonderful
old,
yet
well-preserved
building
and
when
it
came
to
pass
that
somebody
did
want
to
knock
it
down.
I
just
really
went
out
looking
to
see
if
there
was
any
part
of
history
that
would
help
it
be
worth
saving.
T
As
I
studied
this
building,
I
I
learned
all
these
things
I
didn't
expect
to
learn.
While
I
was
really
hoping
my
you
know,
I
was
like
oh
wow,
maybe
we'll
find
out
that
martin
luther
king
jr
had
made
some
important
speech
here.
I
did
not
discover
that.
However,
I
did
discover
that
the
church
was
designed
and
built
by
our
very
own
larry
perkins
larry
was
an
architect
who
literally
changed
the
way
children
go
to
school
and
learn
in
our
country.
T
One
of
the
criteria
for
landmark
mark
status
asks:
did
the
person
have
an
impact
on
the
city,
the
state,
our
region
or
even
the
united
states,
and
I
would
say
that
the
answer
is
an
unequivocal.
Yes,
let's
just
look
at
some
of
larry's
accomplishments,
he
was
the
founder
of
perkins
and
will
an
internationally
known
architectural
firm,
which
is
now
ranked
some
like.
Second
in
the
world
in
terms
of
largest
architectural
firms,
he
is
the
designer
of
some
500
buildings,
including
the
crow
island
school
in
winnetka.
T
He
did
the
additions
to
the
evanston
township
high
school.
He
did
the
first
national
bank
building
in
chicago's
loop
he's
also
the
author
of
two
books,
including
schools
in
1949
and
workplace,
for
learning
in
1956.,
and
he
was
a
member
of
the
evanston
planning
commission
and
I
believe,
the
director
of
the
evanston
planning
commission.
T
T
Is
it
crow
island
certainly
was
you
know
his
first
really
big
project
and
at
the
time
his
firm
was
so
unknown
that
he
needed
to
bring
his
friend
his
friends,
elil
and
eros
saarinen
on
board
to
prove
to
winnetka
that
he
would
deliver
on
his
promise,
and
he
certainly
did
he
changed
how
schools
were
built.
T
He
turned
the
idea
of
how
a
child
could
learn
on
its
head
and
the
impact
was
felt
for
decades
and
I
would
say,
the
impact
is
still
being
felt
today
I
mean
I
went
to
school
in
new
york
city
and
the
building
I
was
in
was
built
on
ideas
from
larry
perkins
talking
about
crow
island.
It
came
with
bright,
it
was
an
airy
design.
It
had
l-shaped
rooms,
crow
island
got
as
far
away
from
the
idea
that
children
have
to
learn
this
big
box
by
rote
learning
than
you
could
imagine.
T
We
wanted
to
get
kids
away
from
the
box-like
regimented
classroom
situation,
perkins
paid
close
attention
to
the
needs
of
the
children,
and
that
resulted
in
many
large
and
even
small
details
being
scaled
down
for
them.
Door
handles
light
switches,
drinking
fountains,
toilets
and
blackboards
were
all
child
size,
not
adult
height
auditorium
seats
were
molded
to
a
child's
shape.
Now
these
things
that
we
have
that
we
kind
of
expect
as
normal
today
came
about
just
because
of
larry
perkins.
T
T
I
do
know
that
his
family
home
on
lincoln
street
is
a
landmark
as
well
as
his
personal
home
on
harrison
street,
and
then
philip
will's
home
across
the
street
on
harrison
street
is
also
honored.
But
how
many
other
landmarks
do
we
have
with
larry's
name
on
it?
It
just
doesn't
seem
like
enough
has
been
done
to
honor
this
man
who
dedicated
so
much
to
the
physical
beauty
of
our
town
and
the
betterment
of
all
who
live
here.
His
impact
is
clearly
still
being
felt
today.
T
I
mean,
I
don't
even
know
if
we
have
a
park
bench
with
larry
perkins
name
on
it.
Larry
was
a
proud
evanstonian
and
a
great
ambassador
for
our
city
when
he
won
the
evanston
arts
council
award,
the
late
mayor
joan
barr
said
the
award
was
going
to
an
individual
and
an
institution
in
our
city,
in
fact
there's
so
much
written
about
why
larry
was
renowned
in
my
mind.
The
case
is
really
clear.
He
was
one
of
the
most
famous
architects
ever
to
live
in
evanston.
T
T
The
church
reflects
what
is
a
very
abstracted,
simplified,
classical
revival
form
from
the
mid-century
period.
Lots
of
people
have
had
opinions
about
this,
even
over
the
last
couple
of
days
we've
been
debating
about
what
this.
What
what
form
this
building
takes?
T
The
important
parts
of
the
church
are
the
columns
up
front
which
take
the
traditional
look
of
a
christian
science,
church
and
modernize
it.
Another
important
part
of
the
church
are
the
windows
from
a
number
of
surveys.
They
are
clearly
original
perkins
designed
the
windows
to
allow
a
lot
of
light
in
this
church,
so
that
no
matter
where
you
were
sitting,
you
could
see
the
speaker
at
the
front
and
at
the
time
that
was
a
whole
new
idea.
T
The
brickwork
is
wonderfully
preserved.
It
is
chicago
common,
but
the
brick
was
treated
with
soda
ash
to
give
it
a
pink
hue,
and
I
have
to
tell
you
with
sunset:
the
color
is
just
really
outstanding.
There
are
a
lot
of
really
nice
smaller
details
to
this
church,
like
the
greek
key
reliefs
on
the
panels.
The
recessed
bay
windows,
the
84
foot
steeple,
which
remains
in
excellent
condition
and
the
acroterion
on
all
corners
that
are
also
mirrored
in
the
steeples
design.
T
In
my
research,
as
I
said,
there
were
a
lot
of
surprises.
For
instance,
I
learned
that
the
construction
company
hired
to
build
the
church
was
ragnar
benson.
He
was
an
immigrant
who
came
to
the
chicago
area
at
the
age
of
11
and
he
became
a
stone
mason.
His
company
was
14
years
old
at
the
time
that
the
church
was
built
and
he
was
hired
to
build
the
church.
T
I
also
found
in
my
research
the
blueprints
for
the
landscape,
architect,
architecture
and
the
name
on
the
blueprints
was
franz
lip.
I
soon
learned
that
franz
lip
was
one
of
the
most
renowned
landscape,
architects
of
the
time.
The
art
institute,
for
instance,
has
57
drawings
by
franz
lip
of
his
landscape
designs.
T
A
little
detail
that
I
actually
loved
to
find
out
was
that,
at
the
end,
in
order
for
the
christian
science
church
to
dedicate
officially
dedicate
a
facility,
the
the
facility
has
to
be
free
of
debt
in
1947.
That
was
not
true.
They
still
had
debt
on
the
building
and
it
was
approximately
six
thousand
dollars
the
building
was
open,
but
it
wasn't
officially
dedicated
some.
T
Five
years
later
in
1951,
the
church
leaders
received
a
six
thousand
dollar
check
from
the
mother
church
in
boston,
and
the
six
thousand
dollars
came
from
mary
baker.
Eddie's
will
the
founder
of
the
christian
science
church
had
this
money
set
aside
to
help
church
leaders
with
local
dedications?
T
T
So
these
are
the
hands
that
touch
this
little
church
in
my
neighborhood
and
in
my
mind,
it
just
gives
us
so
many
more
reasons
to
protect
it.
Next,
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
race
relations
in
our
community
and
how
it
relates
to
the
church
and
its
property.
T
It
also
happened
to
come
at
the
same
time
that
the
neighborhood
and
the
church
and
the
planning
commission
were
debating
the
potential
purchase
of
this
church,
and
so
when
we
saw
a
wgn
news
truck
taking
pictures
of
the
church,
we
thought
oh
they're,
covering
the
big
issue
about
the
sale
of
the
church.
T
It
turns
out
the
story
that
night
had
nothing
to
do
with
the
sale
of
the
church
it
had
to
do
with
reparations
it.
Had
it
had
everything
to
do
with
this
man
back
in
the
1920s,
an
african-american
man
in
the
1920s
who
moved
to
evanston,
he
was
the
son
of
a
slave
and
in
the
area
that's
the
parking
lot
of
the
church.
He
built
a
house
and
some
time
later,
the
city
came
to
him
and
told
him
that
he
could
not
live
on
that
property.
T
T
T
Finally,
we
know
that
this
church,
we
know
that
the
second
church
of
christ
has
been
looking
for
a
buyer
for
this
property
for
years,
and
so
in.
In
my
research
I
also
did
some
investigation
into
adaptive
reuse
of
churches.
You
know
there
are
thousands
of
church
churches
across
the
country
that
go
up
for
sale
every
year
and
often
a
big
question
is
what
can
people
do
differently
but
keep
the
church
from
being
knocked
down?
T
We
live
in
an
r1
neighborhood,
so
they're
probably
you
know,
we
probably
can't
turn
it
into
a
restaurant
or
a
hotel,
but
it
could
be
a
child
care
center.
It
just
probably
couldn't
it
couldn't
be
as
big
as
the
as
the
one
the
the
the
applicant
wanted
to
the
kensington
school
wanted
to
wanted
to
build.
It
could
be
a
home.
Perhaps
it
could
be
some
condominiums,
maybe
four
or
five
condominiums.
T
Maybe
it
could
be,
maybe
the
city
could
buy
it
and
it
could
be
even
a
race
relations
museum.
How
wonderful
would
that
be?
So
I
mean
there
are
lots
of
options
other
than
tearing
down
this
important
building
made
by
a
truly
important
member
of
our
community.
You
know,
as
long
as
we
stay,
creative
and
open,
we
can
find
answers
and
before
I
end
I
do
want
to
point
out
that
after
I
submitted
the
document,
I
noticed
that
there
were
two
errors
in
there
that
I
do
want
to
point
out.
T
The
first
is
is
that
I
inappropriately
I
think
I
said
that
ero-
that
let
me
just
say
that
I
know
that
ero
was
the
son
of
el
saarinen.
They
were
not
brothers
and
I
must
have
just
been
totally
exhausted.
Just
before
I
put
my
a
document
in
the
second
was
a
typo,
and
I
just
want
to
know
that
you
know
that
I
know
that
the
brick
is
called
chicago,
common
and
not
chicago
commons,
and
so
with
that
I'd
really
be
happy
to
answer
your
questions.
T
As
best
as
I
can.
I
am
not
an
architect
and
I'm
not
a
historian.
If
I
don't
know
the
answer
to
some
of
your
questions,
I'll
do
the
best
I
can
to
find
out.
A
Before
we
find
the
details,
we're
up,
we
are
obligated
to
make
our
decisions
based
on
the
standards
in
the
ordinance,
and
I
think
there
are
four
lists
in
the
application.
Although
my
understanding
is
one
of
those
can
drop
without
repeating
at
length,
could
you
specifically
address
why
you
believe
that
the
property
should
be
landmarked
under
the
the
three
applicable
standards
in
the
argument.
T
Sure
so.
T
I
I
have
mine
but
sure
they're
like
on
page
three
of
yeah,
so
I
went
with
the
cases,
for
I
went
with
three
cases:
three
criteria.
I
I
looked
at
three
criteria.
T
T
Do
I
need
to
go
through
anything
more
specific
on
that
or
or
do
you
feel
you
heard
enough
on
that?
To
answer
that
question.
A
You
know,
I
think,
on
two
and
four
that
was
the
main
focus
of
your
presentation,
so
I
don't
think
we
need
to
repeat
it.
I
believe
you
thought
three
was
applicable
and
that's
kind
of
a
different
criteria.
So,
if
you'd
like
to
take
a,
I
think
it'd
be
valuable
to
take
into
account.
T
Okay,
so
three
was
it's:
that
exemplification
of
an
architectural
type
style
or
design
distinguished
by
innovation,
rarity
uniquely
uniqueness
or
overall
quality
of
design,
detail,
materials
or
craftsmanship.
T
And
what
I
would
say
to
that
is
that
historically,
the
christian
science
church
had
this
very
classic
design
to
it
and
that
when
larry
took
it
over,
he
really
took
that
classic
design
that
we
saw
with.
So
I'm
sorry,
mr
beeman.
T
He
was
the
architect
for
many
christian
science
churches,
which
were
really
heavy
classic
designs
and
he
took
those
that
idea
and
he
just
modernized
it
with
these
beautiful
columns
in
the
front
that
were
modern
and
and
beautiful,
and
that
some
would
say
sarin
sarenin
used
in
developing
the
cranbook
brook
art
center
in
in
detroit.
T
If
you
look
at
the
photos
of
the
cranbrook
art
center,
you
see
the
same
type
of
columns
that
that
his
friend,
larry
larry,
created
earlier
also
in
terms
of
just
the
the
the
window
design
at
the
time
was,
was
very
special
in
terms
of
allowing
everyone
in
the
church
to
be
able
to
see
the
speaker
from
the
front,
no
one,
no
matter
where
they
were
seated
because
of
the
of
the
lighting
that
was
afforded
in
the
windows.
L
I
I
have
a
this.
Is
commissioner
dweller,
mr
neville?
Is
that
your
last
name
example?
So
I
know
from
personal
experience
that
it
is
a
lot
of
work
to
put
one
of
these
together.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
dedicating
that
time.
Some
questions
that
I
have
under
criterion,
two,
the
part
about
the
identification
with
a
person
or
persons,
are
you
it.
I
just
want
to
be
clear.
Are
you
saying
that
that
is
because
larry
is
the
architect,
and
that
is
what
the
justification
for
identifying
him
with
this
building.
L
T
L
Okay,
yeah,
because
this
criterion
has
two
one
has
two
things:
you
have
to
prove
right,
one
that
it
that
there's
an
identification
with
the
building
and
the
other
that
that
the
person
is
historically
significant
in
some
way.
T
T
T
T
He
was
on
the
planning
board.
He
he.
He
was
an
ambassador
for
our
city.
When,
when
evanston
won
city
of
the
year
and
every
year
it
was,
it
was
larry
they
sent
to
be
on
channel
two.
A
live
show
on
channel
two
to
accept
the
award.
He
was
an
ambassador
for
our
city,
so
when
I
read
two,
I
think
of
it
more
as
as
as
larry
as
a
historic
and
cultural
representative,
art
of
our
town.
L
Okay
and
then
on
criteria
number
three.
K
L
I
noticed
that
you
had
or
the
the
application
it
takes
takes
objection
I
guess
to
the
neo-colonial
the
colonial
revival
type
stylistic
term,
and
I
am
wondering
why,
because
that
seems
very
applicable
to
me
and
I'm
wondering
if
there
is
anything.
I
have
a
particular
reason
why
I'm
asking
this
question,
but
I
want
to
I
want
to
hear
from
you
before
I.
T
Absolutely
so,
once
again,
I
I'm
not
a
student
of
architecture
and
I
am
I'm
not
an
architectural
historian,
so
the
the
people
that
I
consulted
with
one
one
woman
is
susan,
benjamin
I
I
worked
with
and
some
of
the
other
resources
I
used
in
the
community
we're
coming
up
with
all
different
kinds
of
names.
So
what
we
can
what
we
came
up
with
was
you
know
what
I
proposed,
but
then
I
was
talking
to
kade.
T
I
don't
know
a
few
days
before
the
nomination
was
due
and
kate
said
you
know
I
went.
I
went
by
the
building
one
more
time
and
I
have
a
new.
You
know
I
have
a
new
thought
on
what
this
should,
what
this
should
be
called
and-
and
he
said
it's
not
a
hundred
percent
important,
but
that's
just
what
I
thought
so
really.
The
only
reason
I
put
that
little
asterisk
in
there
and
I
put
that
down.
L
G
L
Yeah,
so,
okay,
just
for
clarification,
I
we
would
we're
asking
questions
now
and
we'll
have
conversation
later
correct.
L
A
Thank
just
said:
we'll
come
back,
which,
especially
good
to
other
commissioners,
have
questions
for.
M
T
Memo
you'll
see
it's
a
lovely,
there's
those,
but
then
also,
if
you
go
to
the
additionals,
this
was
a
a
hand
typed
and
handwritten
document
that
has.
T
G
A
Okay,
well
we'll
we'll
come
back
and
commissioners
raised
raise
issues
later,
that's
kind
of
like
a
lot
of
people
to
talk.
So
would
a
representative
owner
like
to
introduce
themselves
and.
U
Speak
good
evening,
commissioners,
my
name
is
gary
shoemaker,
I'm
an
architect,
a
business
owner
and
the
former
chair
of
this
commission.
I
joined
this
evening
to
speak
on
behalf
of
my
client,
who
has
the
original
builder
and
the
only
owner
of
the
subject.
Property
respectfully
disagree
with
mr
neville's
nomination
of
this
property
for
the
designation
as
a
local
landmark
in
short
and
to
be
clear.
U
The
owner
does
not
support
this
nomination
and
we
ask
that
you
decline
this
recommendation
to
designation
to
the
city
council,
as
is
the
right
and
responsibility
of
this
property
owner
and,
on
their
behalf,
I'll
take
a
few
moments
of
your
time
to
address
criteria.
Two
three
and
four
cited
in
mr
neville's
nomination
for
the
record
with
respect
to
criteria
number
two:
it's
identification
with
a
person
or
persons
who
significantly
contributed
to
the
historic,
cultural,
architectural,
archaeological
or
related
aspect
of
the
development
of
the
city,
state,
midwest
region
or
united
states.
U
And
while
the
simplified,
facade
and
stripped
down
ecclesiastical
styles
of
this
church
are
reminiscent
of
saren's
cranbrook
art
museum.
There
is
no
evidence
that
sarah
then
collaborated
on
the
herd
project
with
perkins
or
his
firm
as
the
cranbook
project
by
saranam
was
well
under
construction
in
1941
and
completed
in
1942,
during
which
time
perkins
was
engaged
to
design
the
subject
property
for
the
second
church
of
christ.
Scientist
evanston,
which
we're
here
to
discuss.
U
If
anything,
it
may
be
argued
that
subject,
property
has
taken
its
architectural
cues
from
sarenin's
cranberry
museum
of
art
and
not,
as
suggested
by
mr
nebel.
The
other
way
around
correspondence
contained
in
the
church
archives
suggest
that
the
personal
outreach
by
the
then
retiring
dwight
perkins
to
the
church
board
of
directors
to
engage
larry
perkins,
who,
at
the
time,
was
in
his
late
30s
diligently
building
his
own
firm
and
focusing
on
developing
a
resume
and
portfolio
of
educational
work
that
remains
well
respected.
U
While
much
of
mr
nebel's
nomination
focused
rightly
on
the
achievements
in
education,
educational
architecture
by
perkins
team,
his
collaborators
and
the
associated
firms.
The
timeline
does
not
support
the
notion
that
the
site
unheard
was
instrumental
in
the
formation
of
his
body
of
work.
Nor
has
he
made
a
compelling
argument
that
it
more
broadly
influenced
the
development
of
religious
architecture,
as
one
might
learn
might
rightly
argue.
U
Christian
science.
Church
buildings
across
the
country,
including
the
one
of
mr
neville's
nomination,
are
unlike
typical
religious
structures
and
do
not
place
emphasis
on
ornament,
liturgical
objects
or
sacred
spaces,
and
for
that
reason
the
structure
on
herd
is
devoid
of
such
ecclesiastical
orientation
or
planning,
as
would
be
found
in
most
religious
structures.
The
site
does
not
exemplify
such
typology
style
or
design
as
to
identify
it
as
being
unique
or
distinguished,
above
all,
others
as
a
building.
It
is
both
simple
in
plan
and
decoration
and
spatially
efficient,
lacking
many
functional
secondary
spaces.
U
The
predominant
stylistic
design
preferences
of
young
firms
at
this
time
are
arguably
a
result
of
the
rise
and
aesthetic
successes
of
architects
like
saarinen,
who
worked
in
the
international
style
and
later
adaptations
came
to
be
known
as
mid-century
modern,
which
is
a
style
that
flourished
in
the
mid-1940s
and
in
many
of
these
ideas
remain
popular.
Today,
however,
there
was
not
a
time
then
and
there's
even
today.
There
remains
no
architectural
style
defined
within
the
church
doctrine,
nor
the
history
of
the
church,
and
there
is
no
evidence
that
this
particular
vision
for
church
typology
became
dominant.
U
Nor
was
it
influential
locally,
nationally
or
regionally
materially.
The
building
is
of
common
materials
and
common
methods
found
predominantly
in
educational
construction
at
the
time,
which
would
be
expected
from
perkins,
based
on
his
experience
and
the
building
notable
for
its
lack
of
permanent
or
revenant
uses
of
stone
and
marble.
U
Instead
of
utilizing,
far
simpler
and
cost
conscious,
aesthetic,
adornments
of
painted
wood
trim,
common
brick,
clabbered
siding
asphalt,
shingles
and
glazed,
clear
windows.
The
quality
of
craftsmanship
is
common
and
remains
on
par
with
the
quality
of
work
performed
by
ragnar
benson.
Who
then,
and
now
continues
to
be
a
high
quality
contractor
working
across
nearly
all
types
of
construction,
including
educational,
commercial
and
religious
buildings?
This
particular
site,
however,
does
not
represent
any
unique
achievement,
nor
innovation
on
the
part
of
the
design
team
or
the
constructor.
U
U
This
is
not
to
say
that
this
firm
did
not
treat
the
site
and
client
with
respect.
It
is
to
say
that
it
was
not
then,
and
it
is
not
now
an
anchor
or
contribute
to
the
notable
body
of
work
unique
to
perkins
wheeler
and
will
time
nor
the
current
iteration
of
perkins
and
will
as
as
it
exists
today.
It
also
does
not
represent
a
milestone
or
notable
influence
over
local
regional
design
or
ecclesiastical
architecture
in
a
way
that
would
warrant
the
protections
sought
by
mr
nebel
today.
U
Finally,
we
urge
this
commission
to
respectfully
decline.
This
recommendation
to
city
council
for
the
designation
of
the
hurt
avenue
property
as
a
local
landmark.
While
we
will
agree
to
disagree
with
mr
nebel's
nomination,
which
does
not
have
the
owner's
support,
we
do
not
agree
with
his
assertions
as
to
the
need
for
additional
oversight
and
protection
of
this
property.
We
ask
that
this
commission
not
set
precedent
with
an
unnecessary
assignment
of
landmark
status.
A
Okay,
questions
for
mr
schumacher.
A
No
okay,
I
mean
it
was
a
clear
presentation
and
thank
you
we'll
come
back
to
discussion.
So
if
there
are
any
members
of
the
public
who
wish
to
speak,
I
think
we're
asking
you
limited
to
maximum
of
two
minutes.
I
I
guess,
first
of
all,
kate
is
there.
Anybody
who
submitted,
who
signed
up
to
speak.
A
Okay,
all
right,
if
there's
anyone
who
would
like
to
speak
briefly,
if
you
could
identify
yourself.
L
I
am
not
I.
I
have
a
couple
of
different
thoughts
here
for
criterion
number
two.
I
want
to
talk
about
criteria
number
three
for
a
couple
of
minutes,
but
regarding
criterion
number
two:
I
am
not
sure
that
the
identification
of
larry
perkins
is
a
compelling
enough
reason
to
connect
him
to
this
building
beyond
criteria
number
four.
L
I
would
be
interested
to
hear
what
others
have
to
say,
but
I,
my
sense
of
this
particular
criterion
is
that
it
is
meant
to
be
for
other
types
of
person
or
persons
who
are
connected
to
these
buildings.
So
I'd
be
interested
to
hear
what
others
have
to
say,
but
right
now
I
do
not
feel
that
that
is
a
compelling
criterion.
L
I
do
believe
that
it
is
worthy
under
criteria
number
three,
but
not
necessarily
for
the
reasons
that
the
application
that
the
applicant
has
provided
the
I
do
believe
that
the
architectural
type
is
a
kind
of
neo-colonial
revival,
but
it
is
of
a
particular
type
of
neo-colonial
revival.
L
That
is
very
has
a
has
a
very
specific.
In
my
opinion,
very
specific
lineage
that
connects
back
to
james
gibbs
is
anyone.
L
Hopefully,
some
folks
know
that
name
a
kind
of
important
architect
from
the
18th
century
who,
in
england,
who
designed
an
important
building
at
the
time,
st
martin's
in
the
field
in
london,
and
then
that
became
very
influential
here
in
the
united
states
cade.
Would
you
mind
putting
that
set
of
images
up
I'd
like
to
just
well?
First
of
all,
perhaps
we
should
yeah.
L
Right,
so
what
you're
going
to
see
in
st
martin's
in
the
field
is
a
portico
front,
with
a
steeple
directly
behind
the
portico
over
the
vestibule.
That
is
different
from
some
of
the
church
designs
that
others
might
be
familiar
with,
where
the
steeple
is
over
the
crossing
or
in
other
parts
of
the
building.
Okay.
L
So
what
happened
was
james
gibbs
designed
st
martin
in
the
field
went
into
a
very
important
book
that
he
wrote
that
ended
up
on
the
on
the
boats
on
the
ocean,
going
vessels
and
came
across
this
country
well
to
the
colonies
at
that
time
and
was
reproduced
over
and
over
and
over
the
portico,
with
the
steeple
right
behind
it
over
the
vestibule.
L
Now
american
architecture
is
known
for
a
lot
of
things,
but
in
comparison
with
architecture
in
other
countries,
our
church
architecture
is
not
so
much.
It
doesn't
mean
that
we
don't
have
great
churches
here,
but
as
compared
to
the
religious
architecture
and
the
churches
and
other
places,
we
don't
have
as
much
of
a
tradition
except
for
this
one
thing,
which
was
what
james
gibbs
did
and
became
very
popular
elsewhere.
So
kate,
if
you
could,
can
you
can
you
come
out
a
little
bit
so
that
we
can
see
st
martin's
in
the
field?
L
Right,
I
know
so
this
is:
let's
go
back
up
to
the
top.
This
is
the
this
is
an
article
about
the.
Can
you
just
go
up
to
the
title
so
that
everyone
knows
what
we're
looking
at.
This
is
called
the
gibbs
church,
a
paradigm
for
america
classical
comments
by
calder,
loth,
well-known
historian,
and
so
this
is
a
website
that
I
sent
to
cades
that
he
could
see
what
I
was
talking
about
with
the
gibbs
church
all
right.
So
this
is
st
martin's
in
the
field
fields.
If
you
go
down,
you'll
see
yeah.
L
So
sorry,
this
zoom,
so
here's
the
portico
with
the
steeple
right
behind
all
right
and
more
or
less
above
the
vestibules.
This
is
a
very
common
type
in
this
country.
If
you
go
down,
you'll
see
a
few
more
examples.
L
L
L
This
is
more
common,
plain
version
of
it.
L
So,
there's
a
lot
more
written
than
what
I
am
showing
you
here.
This
was
just
a
basic
sort
of
primer
on
the
gibbs
paradigm,
but
what
I
am
suggesting
is
that
perhaps
we
might
take
a
look
at
the
church
that
is
here
in
evanston
as
a
as
a
modern
example
of
this
particular
type
of
church,
which
exists
in
other
places
and
may
seem
not
very
important.
You
know
individually,
but
when
you
think
about
it
from
a
national
context,
it
takes
on
a
little
bit
more
significance.
L
My
sense
is
that
larry
perkins
was
a
well-educated,
well-informed
person.
He
knew
what
he
was
doing.
My
senses,
that
probably
others
did
too.
My
guess
is
that
at
the
time
probably
you
know
we
could
you
could
go
in
and
do
some
more
research
on
this.
But
my
my
suspicion
is
that
this
was
something
that
everybody
kind
of
understood
at
the
time
that
maybe
we've
forgotten
a
little
bit.
L
L
This
is
one
of
the
I
mean
I've
been
an
architectural
historian
for
25
years
I
haven't
seen
a
modern
version
of
the
gibbs
paradigm
type
church.
That
is
quite
as
nice
as
this
one.
It's
certainly
in
very
good
condition.
Integrity
wise.
L
It
is,
it
is
saying
exactly
what
it
is
meant
to
say
here.
It
seems
to
be
a
particularly
good
version
of
what
it
is
meant
to
be
all
right.
A
H
There
commitments
yeah
I'd
like
to
comment,
but
I
would
like
to
begin
with
a
question
built
on
the
presentation
we
just
heard.
It
seems
to
me
under
the
criteria
that,
if
we're
considering
the
building's
importance
in
part
because
it's
attributed
to
larry,
perkins
or
larry
perkins's
firm,
but
we
know
that
larry
perkins,
like
his
father,
dwight
perkins,
became
nationally
and
internationally
known
for
the
schools
that
he
designed.
Doesn't
that
make
this
somewhat
unique?
H
H
I
mean
I
don't
know
of
any.
I
knew
larry
and
I
went
to
school
with
his
son
brad
and
had
the
privilege
of
having
larry
as
a
teaching
colleague
at
uic
at
the
end
of
his
career,
and
I
think
the
fact
that
it
is
a
unique
work
by
someone
who
is
known
for
doing
schools
is,
is
one
thing
with
respect
to
both
criteria,
two
and
criteria
four,
and
I
think
that
criteria
three
has
probably
been
a
little
bit
under
emphasized.
H
I
I'm,
commissioner
drawer,
I'm
glad
that
you
brought
up
the
typological
relationship
to
the
gibbs
church,
but
when
I
look
at
at
this
first
of
all,
I
think
it
is
absolutely
unique
as
a
building
in
evanston
and
remember.
This
is
a
local
landmark
designation,
we're
considering
not
a
national
one.
There
is
nothing
else
like
it
in
evanston.
H
The
closest
thing
to
it
might
be
some
art
deco
things
like
the
post
office
and
in
fact
the
cenan
works
that
jerry
schumacher
has
alluded
to
at
cranbrook
are
are
stylistically
art
deco,
whereas
I
don't
find
this
church
stylistically
art
deco.
I
find
it
in
fact
rather
unique.
The
the
the
columns
that
are
typical
for
a
church
of
this
saw
sort
are
in
fact
not
columns
at
all
they're
peers
and
further
they're
peers
that
are
cased
on
the
inside,
as
if
they
were
large
over
scale
openings.
H
I've
never
seen
anything
like
that
before
the
clabbert
in
the
in
the
gable,
and
you
know
one
associates
with
rural
churches,
but
again
it
gives
the
building
a
kind
of
domesticity
that
I
feel
relates
to
the
liturgy
of
the
church,
and
when
you
go
to
look
at
the
windows,
they
remind
me
actually
of
large-scale
residential
windows,
the
the
big
bow
window
and
the
and
the
subdivisions
of
it
look
almost
more
like
picture
windows
or
bay
windows
that
you
found
in
houses
from
the
1950s.
H
A
Okay,
I
think
I
I
just
like
to
state
that
what
I
mean
it
would
maybe
spoke
briefly
about
beginning.
What's
interesting
about
the
criteria,
is
there's
nothing
in
the
criteria
about
the
ability
of
a
structure
to
be
used
for
other
uses.
You
know,
unlike
a
for
example,
a
residence
or
a
an
office
building
where
clearly
could
continue
to
be
used
for
those
purposes.
A
If
retrofit
it's
it
may,
you
know,
hopefully,
is
possible
to
use
this
structure
for
other
uses,
but
it's
it's
certainly
kind
of
an
unknown
issue.
I
think
the
fact
that
it's
not
in
the
ordinance
means
it's
really
not
our
decision
to
make,
and
I
don't
think
we
need
to.
I
mean
I
think
it's
entirely
speculative
at
this
point,
but
I
I
think
you
know
our
decisions
in
particular
decision
to
require
an
owner
to
maintain
an
additional
structure
is
a
substantial
burden
on
their
ownership.
A
I
think
we
have
to
recognize
that
you
know
those
economic
factors
made
to
be
considered,
but
I
think
that's
simply
something
we
can
note
that
that
should
be
within
the
city
council's
purview
and
not
ours.
A
There's
nothing
in
the
ordinance
which
really
entitles
or
obligates
us
to
try
to
make
that
determination.
J
Would
like
to
ask
the
other
commissioners
relating
to
criteria
number
three,
this
term
we're
using
unique
that
can
be
good
or
bad,
and
I'm
trying
not.
J
As
good
or
bad,
but
unique
could
could
be
used
to
describe
a
lot
of
things
that
we
may
not
consider
a
landmark.
So
I
I
would
like
to
know
how
everybody
interprets
that
unique
quality
referenced
in
standard
number.
Three,
as
it
relates
to
this.
P
Structure,
I
I
guess
my
take
is
that
I
wouldn't
necessarily
consider
it
quite
so
unique.
I
mean
there
was
obviously
a
big
tendency
in
the
1930s
and
40s
to
do
buildings
and
kind
of
script
to
take
classical
prototypes
and
kind
of
strip
it
down
of
a
lot
of
the
ornaments
in
detail
and
simplify
it
and
I'd
kind
of
put
it
in
that
broader
category.
P
I
think
it's
the
gibbs
church
comparison
is
very
interesting
that
hadn't
occurred
to
me,
but
I
think
that's
clearly
something
that
was
in
his
mind
and
it's
kind
of
that
1930s
40s
version
of
doing
a
script
classical
building
and
using
that
that
prototype
and
adapting
it
in
this
in
this
way,
so
I
think
it's
I
think
it
fits
within
that
kind
of
broader
category
and
that
broader
tendency
in
mid-century
architecture.
P
Looking
at
the
criteria,
I
I
would
agree
with
the
others
that
criterion
two
does
not
apply
in
this
kind
of
situation.
That's
that's
not
really
an
appropriate
use
of
that
criterion,
but
I
think
three
applies
at
least
weekly
and
criterion.
Four.
The
way
it's
written,
I
think
clearly
applies.
I
mean
I
don't
think
anyone
can
argue
that
this
is
not
a
significant
architect
and
it's
obviously
a
building
he
designed
and
that's
basically
all
that
criterion
force
says
it
doesn't
have
to
be
his
best
building
or
his
most
representative
building
or
his
foundational
building.
H
I
think
there
are
things
that
are
interestingly
awkward
about
the
building
and
I
think
that,
in
terms
of
the
idea
of
transformation
or
adaptation,
there
are
some
interesting
things
that
perkins
has
done
here
and
even
the
literal
quotation
of
classical
elements
where
one
wouldn't
have
expected
them
like
the
ecretaria
I
find
kind
of
uniquely
interesting
do
I
think
this
is
a
a
great
building
that
stem
that
stands
in
the
annals
of
architectural
history.
H
I
don't
think
we
need
to
debate
that
I
mean
I,
I
wouldn't
propose
it
in
that
sense,
but
is
it
deserving
of
recognition
and
protection?
I
think
that's
what
we're
all
here
to
decide.
A
All
right
any
other
commissioners,
then,
I
think
give
the
parties
a
less
brief
chance
that
they
won't
have
any
closing
remarks
so
first,
any
other
commissioners
would
like
to
close
out
discussion,
bring
up
any
new
points.
A
No
okay,
andrew
are
there
any
very
brief
remarks
you'd
like
to
make
before
we.
B
T
Oh
sure,
thanks,
I
do
want
to
address
the
cranbrook
issue
that
the
the
attorney
from
the
church
brought
up
and
I
just
have
to
apologize
for
that
mistake.
The
some
of
the
historians
I
talked
to
it
pointed
me
to
that
and
when
I
looked
at
the
date
I
thought
the
date
for
that
part
of
the
cranbrook
school
was
later
than
the
original
part.
So
that
was
my
error.
I'm
sorry,
I
told
you
I'm
not
an
architectural
story
and
I'm
just
doing
the
best.
I
can
so.
T
T
U
No,
I
have
nothing
else
to
add.
I
think
we've
made
our
we've
made
our
case
and
again.
I
would
just
like
to
reiterate
that
this
this
application
for
nomination
was
made
without
without
consultation
with
the
owner,
and
we
recommend-
or
we
would
prefer,
that
you
not
recommend
this
nomination
to
the
city
council
at
this
time.
A
A
Ken,
I
think
it's
your
last
meeting.
Do
you
want
to
take
a
shot
at
making
one
last
nomination.
P
A
Okay,
sarah,
a
second
all
right,
roll
call
vote.
Commissioner
idol
aye,
commissioner
reinhold
aye
commissioner
dweller
aye,
commissioner
cohen
aye,
commissioner
bowden
hi
commissioner
morris
commissioner
jacobs
hi,
and
I'm
and
I
so
okay,
so
we
still
have
to
come
back
staff
will
prepare
a
report
that
will
be
circulated
likely
before
the
next
meeting.
A
It
gives
a
chance
to
comment
and
then
our
action
will
not
be
official
until
we
approve
that
report
and
submit
it
and,
unlike
our
typical
certificate
of
appropriateness
in
this
case,
we
actually
have
the
chance
to
addre
work
out
and
address
any
issues.
In
that
report
I
mean
our
official
action
really
is
approving
that
report.
So
you
know
again
anything
that
anybody
thinks
of
that.
We
should
point
out
to
city
council
or
should
point
out
in
support
of
our
action.
We'll
have
the
opportunity
to
do
that.
L
G
Yeah,
you
have,
you
have
to
adopt
the
the
report
as
well
as
adopt
a
formal
resolution
that
gets
transmitted
to
the
city
council
and
then
you,
you
have
really
wanted
two
options
right
now.
You
could
basically,
once
you
close
the
public
hearing.
The
clock
starts
to
tick
on
that
that
transmittal,
so
you
have
70
days
after
you
close
the
hearing.
A
G
K
A
Okay,
so
do
a
quick
vote,
so,
commissioner
ida.
P
K
A
Cohen
aye
mr
bowden
aye
mr
morris
aye,
mr
jacobs.
I
okay,
so
I
think
that
concludes
the
public
part
of
our
meeting.
H
Kate,
what's
the
actual
process
for
drafting
the
report?
We're
supposed
to
adapt
to
you-
and
I
mean
is-
is
that
you.
G
G
We'll
both
work
on
it
together
there's
a
specific
set
of
criteria
in
the
ordinance
on
on
what
you
have
to
address
and
then
there's
a
little
bit
of
additional
information
that
that
we
can
add
and
we'll
use.
Obviously
any
testimony
that
that
you
gave
and
the
applicant
gave
as
well
as
in
this
case,
a
property
owner
and
compile
something.
And
then
you
can
review
it.
G
H
Okay,
so
here
here's
a
question
that
it's
inappropriate
to
ask
just.
H
H
Is
the
city
council
simply
going
to
not
approve
the
designation
because
of
property
owners
rights.
G
H
A
All
right
yeah,
I.
A
Not
gonna
wait.
I
guess
we'd
ask
the
members
the
public
side
off,
but
we're
not
gonna
do
anything
too
interesting
anyway.
So
should
we
did
you
receive
any
comments
on
the
minutes.
G
I
did
not
receive
any
and
I'll
and
I'll
mention
that
I
I
was.
I
was
told
that
my
minutes
were
too
detailed
and
that
they're
not
supposed
to
to
reflect
as
a
transcript,
so
you'll
see
that
these
are
much
more
of
a
generalization.
D
G
D
Well,
we
didn't
have
the
benefit
of
the
video
in
the
past,
so
I
think
that
is
very
helpful,
but
obviously
you
know
even
when
I
tried
so
hard.
You
know
I
have
minutes
that
were
like
10
15
pages
long,
so
don't
don't
feel
too
bad
kane
you're
doing
your
job.
A
All
right
does
that:
does
anybody
want
to
look
at
the
minister?
Should
we
I
mean
we
could
just
approve
them
now
if.
H
A
Okay,
so
probably
only
people
are
present
at
the
last
meeting
and
members
of
the
commission
last
meeting
should
vote
and
others
abstain.
So,
commissioner,
idle.
N
J
A
Whatever
commissioner,
simon
of
a
yes
okay,
so
there
was
a
a
proposal
that
we
actually
that
I
think
the
commission's
generally
perhaps
adopt
rules
that
they,
their
their
meetings,
could
not
extend
beyond
11
p.m.
Unless
a
biscuit,
formal
proposal
was
made
to
extend
the
meeting
and
a
vote
taken,
I
guess
my
thought
was.
A
Maybe
we
could
have
a
I
mean,
I
I
guess
it's
okay,
I
mean
we
could
also
maybe
a
softer
rule
that
maybe
it's
just
meetings
will
not
extend
beyond
11
pm
unless
the
commissioners
decide
otherwise
or
something
like
that,
it
seemed
like
I
mean
what
sometimes
it
you
know,
we're
close
to
done.
It's
just
worth
finishing,
so
I
I
don't
know
if,
okay,
I
don't
know
if
we
need
to
do
something,
that'll
be
memorialized
in
our
rules
or
what
we
need
to
do.
G
And,
and
before
before
I
mention
that
I
I
did
get,
I
just
want
to
note
that
sometimes
members
of
the
public,
I
was
made
aware
that
they
were
messaging
commissioners
on
the
chat
individually
or
a
single
commissioner,
and
that
commissioner
shouldn't
respond
to
that,
because
it's
not
part
of
the
transcript
and
thus
not
part
of
the
public
record.
G
Yeah
it,
I
think
it
was
enabled
just
because
we've
used
it
in
the
past
to
facilitate
public
comment,
but
it
didn't
really
occur
to
turn
it.
H
I
have
a
question
relevant
to
the
question
of
that
mark
brought
up
about
limiting
the
length
of
meetings.
Do
you
and
carlos
also
limit
the
number
of
cases
that
you'll
schedule
for
each
meeting.
G
Typically,
not
but
but
within
reason
I
mean
the
ones
that
come
in
first
come
first
serve,
but,
for
example,
you
know
there's
been
times
where
I
think
we
probably
know
that
it
we're
bordering
on
too
many
cases,
but
it's
it's
really
hard
to
balance,
because
the
applicants
and
the
property
owner
they,
you
know
they
miss
out
on
a
whole
month
of
time.
So
it's
a
it's.
It's
a
difficult.
H
D
Maybe
if
I
may,
it
would
be
something
to
think
about
if
we
put
it
in
the
rules
that
staff
will
decide
how
many
applications
can
be
reviewed
at
the
next
available
meeting,
depending
on
the
complexity
of
each
case.
You
know,
because
sometimes
we
have
agendas
where
it
seems
like
every
single
application
is
difficult
and
others
not
that
much
so
if
we
have
something
that
staff
can
rely
on.
So
if
an
applicant
says
no,
I'm
just
admitting
the
application
on
time.
D
A
You
know,
under
the
ordinance
we're
required
to
review
the
application
within
45
days
of
receipt,
so
I
mean,
I
think,
once
in
a
great
while
we've
actually
had
to
hold
like
a
second
meeting
during
the
month.
C
H
I
think
that's
a
good
suggestion
if
we
have,
since
the
number
of
cases
is
going
to
vary
from
meeting
to
meeting,
if
we
have
a
meeting
where
there
are
a
lot
of
cases
and
we
decide
that
we
don't
want
to
meet
later
than
say.
H
10
30.,
I
mean
it's
up
to
us,
but
if
we
agreed
that
in
most
cases
where
we
put
off
people
who
had
applied
on
time
and
had
patiently
waited
through
a
meeting
to
see
if
they
would
be
heard,
if
we
just
decided
to
hold
the
second
meeting
to
finish
off
that
caseload,
either
the
same
week
or
the
following
tuesday.
G
L
Kate,
would
you
mind
not
closing
the
share
screen,
so
we
can
see
each
other
as
well.
E
I
think
carlos
too
one
of
the
problems
with
limiting
the
number
of
cases
would
be.
How
do
we
prioritize
who
goes
and
who
doesn't
go
that?
Might
that
might
become
problematic
for
you
and
kade
to
make
sure
that
we're
fairly
treating
everyone
if
we
do
it
by
time
that
they
get
the
submissions,
and
I
think
you
might
end
up
with
10
really
difficult
cases
that
have
to
go.
D
So
we,
you
know,
we
always
try
to.
Let
people
know
that
these
first
come
first
basis
for
their.
You
know
for
the
inclusion
of
them
on
an
agenda,
but
sometimes
you
know,
depending
on
the
case,
we
tend
to
put
the
most
difficult
cases
towards
the
end.
D
You
know
so
in
that
regard
we're
trying
to
be
fair,
but
it's
some
assassin
of
how
we
are
addressing
every
case.
We
have
in
the
past
a
special
meetings
when
we
had
an
overload,
but
it's
not
the
norm.
D
I
was
just
trying
to
find
a
way
to
kind
of
make
the
public
aware
that
if
there's
too
many
there's
a
way
for
us
to
schedule
another
meeting
the
issue
would
be.
You
know
the
timely
notification
of
the
meet,
but
kate
mentioned
that
if
we
have
too
many
and
we
can
continue
the
meaning
at
the
time,
if
that's
the
case,
we
don't
need
to
notify
again
because
it's
been
continued
to
a
certain
date
certain
and
is
announced
at
a
public
meet
as
well.
A
I
mean
it's
it's
been
years
since
we
actually
had
a
problem
with
it,
and
I
mean
we've
obviously
had
one
or
two
meeting.
I
mean
a
couple
meetings
in
the
last.
B
A
Months
that
were
a
little
brutal
in
terms
of
length,
but
generally
we
we
do
get
through
things
and
the
problem.
One
of
the
problems
is
you,
you
know
I
I
we've
had
meetings
where
there
were
12
items
of
the
agenda
and
you
know
five
were
continued,
so
it's
really
hard
to
predict
in
advance
and
I
think
we've
we've
done
a
good
job
of
being
able
to
deal
with
it.
A
D
Well,
another
way
to
help
you
is:
you
know,
looking
at
the
the
list
of
projects
that
could
be
reviewed
administratively,
it's
having
our
practice,
steps
to
always
consult
the
chair
permission
and
the
bachelor.
D
I
take
cues
from
what
other
decisions
have
been
made
in
similar
projects,
not
to
say
they're
the
same,
but
you
know
kind
of
look
at
buildings
that
are
not
the
principal
structure
like
you
know,
like
garages,
for
instance,
we
have
many
examples
of
what
the
commission
has
approved
and
I
think
it
gives
the
staff
a
sense
of
what
would
be
appropriate
to
to
approve.
If
that's
the
case,.
A
Yes,
that's
another
topic
for
our
retreat
on
saturday
was
we
wanted?
Just
to
I
mean
everybody
gives
us
some
thought
of
their.
There
are
certainly
I
mean
colors
you're,
totally
right,
they're,
repetitive
matters
that
have
come
before
us
over
and
over
that
staff
already
knows
will
be
approved
and
to
the
extent
we
can
shorten
our
meetings
and
take
burdens
off
of
everybody.
A
So
I
I
guess
that
people
could
come
in
saturday
with
suggestions
of
those
kind
of
categories
that
we'd
really
don't
need
to
see
and
staff
can
make
the
decisions
on.
That
would
be
great.
G
The
idea
came
from
the
city
manager's
office
and
it's
based
in
transparency
of
public
meetings,
particularly
you
know
how
transparent
is
a
meeting
that's
being
conducted
that
late
at
night
in
terms
of
public
involvement,
we
typically
don't
get
a
lot
of
public
comment
on
these
cases,
it's
typically
the
commission
and
the
property
owner
and
the
and
the
architect
and
and
perhaps
an
adjoining
property
owner.
So
I
don't.
I
don't
necessarily
think
it's
as
concerning
as
say,
like
the
plan
commission
or
something
that's
making
bigger
decisions
that
have
you
know.
A
All
right:
well,
why
don't
we
I
mean
carlos
out,
if
you
think
we
need,
I
mean
I'm
not
sure
whether
we
adopt
rules
or
not
is
really.
D
And
I
think
I'll
I
agree
with,
should
think
about
it
and
my
suggestion
would
be
to
we
provide
again
a
copy
of
the
rules
and
procedures
where
we
have
a
list
of
the
projects
that
go
to
the
commission.
Maybe
from
there
we
can
clarify
or
expand
whatever
is
necessary
to
make
it
easier
on
on
the
commission
to
review
projects,
and
what
I
mean
easy
is
so
that
you
are
fully
aware
rested
you
know
to
make
decisions.
I
think
that's
very
important
to
me
rather
than
trying
to
finish
an
agenda.
D
G
L
May
I
ask
a
question
about
the
rules
and
how
this
is
there
supposed
to
be
a
break,
or
is
there
no
break?
It's
just.
K
D
C
P
L
B
C
L
K
L
D
You
kate,
you
asked
me
to
staff
the
commission
next
month.
Is
that
correct.
G
D
I'll
be
starting
next
month,
meaning
just
for
your
information.
B
A
C
P
L
D
For
his
contributions,
not
only
to
the
commission
but
to
staff,
I
have
rely
on
his
knowledge
and
experience
as
an
architect
many
occasions
when
I
had
to
make
a
decision
about
a
project
and
he's
been
always
responsible
and
returning
my
phone
calls.
That
was
much
appreciated
ken.
So
I'd
like
you
to
know
that
every
time
I
had
the
opportunity
to
talk
to
you
to
address
an
issue,
I
really
appreciate
your
response
and
willingness
to
help
us.
Thank
you.