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From YouTube: Preservation Commission Meeting 5-10-2022
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A
Okay,
good
evening,
everyone
we'd
like
to
welcome
you
to
the
hold
on.
I
don't
know,
what's
the
date
may
10.
Sorry,
sorry
excuse
me,
may
10th
preservation,
commission
meeting,
so
I
would
like
to
call
to
order.
We
have
a
quorum
of
seven
commissioners
and
I
believe
kade.
If
you
want
to
do
the
roll
call
for
the
commissioner's
present.
C
A
A
We
have
four
cases
tonight
so
somewhat
of
a
reasonable
agenda,
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
anyone
who
would
like
to
have
public
comment
has
either
signed
in
into
the
form
that
was
at
the
door
outside
the
doors
or
there
is
another
form,
that's
at
the
podium
that
you're
welcome
to
sign
into.
When
you
stand
up
to
give
your
public
comment,
what
we
will
do
is
staff
will
read
the
case
into
record,
and
then
we
will
go
ahead
and
ask
the
applicant
or
the
presenter
to
step
up
to
the
podium.
A
They
will
pro
present
their
submission.
They
can
use,
there's
a
laser
pointer
and
a
remote
so
that
you
can
control
your
presentation
and
if
you
need
assistance
with
that,
cade
will
obviously
help
you
with
it.
They'll
go
ahead
and
present
their
case,
and
then
the
commissioners
will
ask
questions
once
the
commissioners
have
received
all
the
responses
to
their
questions.
We
will
go
ahead
and
ask
the
applicant
to
sit
back
down,
and
then
we
will
ask
for
public
comment.
So
we
ask
that
anyone
that
steps
up
for
public
comment.
A
A
So
with
that,
I
would
like
to
have
cade
read
the
first
record
or
the
first
case
into
record.
Please.
B
1018
greenwood
street
ridge,
historic
district
case
number
22,
pres-0032,
david
salzman
owner
submits
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
construct
a
second-story
addition
atop,
an
existing
single-story,
rear
edition
construct,
a
single-story
attached
garage
with
rooftop
deck
and
all
to
their
structures.
Front
elevation
portico.
A
B
2330
orrington
avenue
in
the
northeast
historic
district,
22,
pres,
0051,
michael
hauser,
architect,
submits
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
demolish
a
rear
volume.
Wooden
stoop
alter
the
fenestration
on
a
single
story:
circa
1990s,
rear
edition
and
construct
a
single
story.
Bay
edition
at
the
principal
structure's
rear
volume,
applicable
standards,
alteration
one
through
ten
construction,
one
through
eight
and
ten
through
fifteen,
michael.
Whenever
you're
ready.
E
F
Green
yeah
are
you
seeing
it
I'm
not
saying
other,
so
I
can
see
it
on
the
black
above,
but
it's
not
showing
too
well
anyway,
you
can
see
the
stair
in
the
back
yeah
right
right
in
that
area.
That's
the
open,
deck
and
immediate
immediately
to
its
left
is
the
mud,
room
and
entry
sequence,
which
is
how
the
family
enters
the
home
most
of
the
time.
The
garage
is
up
on
the
screen
and
that's
how
they
come
and
go
from
the
house.
F
The
challenge
here,
you
know,
was
to
make
better
use
of
the
existing
space,
including
the
the
closet,
that's
off
of
the
actual
stairs,
and
this
and
reconceive
of
the
deck,
which
was
is
not
really
big
enough
for
anything
that
they
do
out
there.
F
So
we
have
the
plan
on
the
right
hand,
side
which
the
main
strategy
is
to
raise
the
the
entry
landing
about
two
risers,
two
risers
and
add
a
bay
onto
the.
It
would
be
the
west
side
which
is
up
on
the
page.
This
is
a
bay
that
will
enclose
you
know,
coats
and
sports
equipment,
shoes,
the
typical
stuff
and
a
rather
than
a
deck.
F
We
would
have
a
a
patio
at
grade
with
stairs
leading
down
to
the
walkway
and
then
to
the
right,
which
is
where
there's
a
seating
area
and
an
eating
area.
F
All
this
works
with
what
the
new
plan
is
for
the
kitchen,
which
is
to
open
it
to
the
family
room
on
the
left,
and
you
know
just
let
the
whole
space
breathe
more
easily
we're
utilizing
the
the
window
type.
That's
in
the
in
the
family,
room
on
the
left
hand,
side
it's
a
double
casement
in
the
new
area.
F
Well
in
the
area
that
is
the
abandoned
door
and
window
off
the
deck,
so
so
the
cooks
and
the
people
inside
can
have
that
connection
with
the
people
in
the
on
the
on
the
patio.
F
Beyond
that
we're,
following
a
lot
of
the
you
know,
if
we
go
to
the
exterior
elevations
yeah,
you
can
see,
we've
got
a
lot
to
draw
from
here.
There's
brick
on
the
base.
It's
a
stucco
and
half
timbering
up
above
lots
of
roof
activity.
F
F
That
is
present
on
the
upper
part.
We
thought
it
would
be
nice
to
pull
it
down
and
make
it
kind
of
the
hood
ornament
on
the
back
of
the
house.
F
So
you
can
see
in
that
left
on
the
left
hand,
side,
that's
the
door
with
the
transom
above
gets
us
to
that
entry,
patio
and
then
down
onto
this
down
onto
grade,
and
thank
you
that's
what
we
look
like
from
the
back
that
window
type.
That's
the
double
casement
now
we're
using
a
triple
on
the
kitchen
side,
and
that's
really
you
know
now
it's
one
whole
space,
so
we
want
those
windows
to
read.
Similarly,.
F
There
is
no
precedent
on
the
house
for
a
metal
roof,
though
they
do
like
the
the
look
of
it,
and
you
know
the
diagonal
half
timbering
is
just
a
echo
of
what's
going
on
above
yeah.
I
think
that's,
I
think,
we've
all
been
there
seen
too
many
shoes
in
the
mud
room
before
and
that's
pretty
much
what's
driving
this
whole
thing.
G
Yes,
the
new
windows:
what
manufacturer?
What
this
is
a
marvin,
g2
ultimate
okay,
and
is
that
aluminum
clad?
Yes,.
G
F
There
there
are
they,
we
did
a
window
replacement
for
the
front
of
the
house
earlier
or
last
year.
I
believe,
but
there
are
double
hungs
and
casements
throughout
the
house.
Some
original.
A
H
That
we
issue
that
we
issue
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
demolish
a
rear
volume
wooden
stoop,
alter
the
fenestration
on
a
single
story,
circa
1990s,
rear
edition
and
construct
a
single
story,
bay
edition
at
the
principal
structures,
rear
volume.
The
applica
applicable
standards
are
alterations
one
through
ten
construction,
one
through
eight
and
ten
through
fifteen.
I
J
A
B
B
When
you're
ready
gary
I'll
pull
the
drawings
up.
K
L
Okay,
good
evening,
my
name
is
gary
schumacher.
I'm
with
shoemaker
design
associates
we're
here
representing
the
owners
of
1217
michigan
avenue.
We've
come
to
you
tonight
with
a
proposal
for
a
detached
coach
house.
Behind
this.
Behind
this
existing
structure,
you
may
all
recall:
we've
we've
talked
about
demolishing
this
garage
in
a
previous
application.
L
L
Okay,
that's
fine!
So
again
the
the
wow,
let's
bring
my
own
pointer
next
time.
There
we
go
so
the
existing
garage,
as
you
recall,
sits
back
here.
This
is
just
beyond
the
rear
of
the
house.
The
proposal
remains
to
demolish
the
garage,
the
parking
pads,
the
the
existing
hot
tub
patio,
the
existing
stone
porch
and
to
if
you'd
like
to
give
me
the
next
slide,
cage
to
construct
a
new
detached
garage
coach
house
in
that,
yes
and
and
to
construct
a
new
detached
coach
house
in
the
rear
quarter
of
the
house.
L
L
If
you
recall
last
time,
we
talked
a
little
bit
about
affording
our
owners
an
opportunity
to
stay
out
of
the
rain
and
carrying
groceries
and
whatnot
in
and
out
of
the
garage,
the
rest
of
the
the
rest
of
the
rear
yard,
the
porch,
the
patio
and
the
and
the
pool
surface
remain,
as
we
had
presented
them
last
time.
If
you
could
give
me
the
next
slide,
please
from
the
roof
plan,
you
can
see
the
pergola
structures
and
the
slopes
of
those
roofs.
L
It's
also
clear
in
here
the
setbacks
from
the
side
yard
condition
here.
Also,
if
you
recall,
this
is
a
zero
lot
line,
a
party
wall
building
that
exists
to
the
to
the
south.
L
These
open
structures
are
are
bracketed,
bracketing,
sorry,
a
stone
wall
between
those
things
that
provides
a
bit
of
privacy
and
security
for
the
pool.
On
the
other
side,
this
wall
is
constructed
of
stone
similar
to
the
porch
piers
in
the
front,
if
you
recall
one
of
the
things
we
tried
to
introduce
in
this
second
phase
of
the
project
were
some
of
the
details,
the
historic
fabric
that
came
from
the
original
structure
of
the
house.
If
you
could
give
me
the
next
slide,
please
thank
you.
So
this
is
the
this
is
the
coach
house
in
context.
L
This
is
the
coach
I
was
pulled
aside,
so
we
can
talk
about
the
materials
a
little
bit
as
indicated
in
here,
we've
taken
the
proportions
and
the
massing
of
the
existing
house
and
we've
replicated
them
on
the
front
of
this
and
there's
one
area
here.
There's
a
there's,
a
spandrel
panel
that
has
a
decorative
plaster
detail
in
it,
which
we're
replicating
on
the
front
of
the
garage
itself.
L
L
The
structure
of
the
of
the
coach
house
in
the
rear
yard
and
the
pergola
structure
here
this
remains
open
light
passing
through
one
of
the
things
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about,
as
it
relates
to
the
standards
and
the
the
depth
of
this
garage.
This
garage
is
located
approximately
103
feet
from
the
street
from
the
property
line
at
the
front.
L
By
opening
this
up
and
allowing
this
pergola
to
be
translucent
allow
light
to
pass
through
it.
We
also
front
light
this
garage,
which
will
accentuate
the
notion
that
these
are
detached
in
separate
structures.
This
is
in
no
way
in
addition
to
the
existing
house
any
longer.
So
I
could
please
have
the
next
slide.
L
We've
gone
back
to
the
same
same
windows,
we're
reusing
the
same
pella
products.
We've
used,
we
proposed
in
the
previous
edition.
You
could
go
to
the
next
slide.
For
me,
a
lot
of
survey
you've
seen,
I
believe,
kate
had
asked
us
to
to
show
this,
which
was
a
piece
of
information
that
we
were
asked
to
provide
in
our
last
conversation
with
you
that
shows
the
relative
proximity
of
this
structure
to
the
fenestration
on
the
adjacent
building.
I
would
also
note
this
is
the
coach
house
in
the
adjacent
building.
L
L
L
L
Okay,
again
very
similar,
this
is
as
if
you
are
on
the
sidewalk
directly
in
front
of
the
house,
and,
as
I
mentioned
there
is
that
there's
that
plaster
panel
with
the
decorative
work.
The
intention
is
to
put
that
in
here
and
I
apologize
there's
a
that's
a
bit
of
a
relic.
K
I
Go
ahead
mark,
could
you
illuminate
whether
there
were
design
considerations
that
led
you
to
locate
the
garage
right
at
the
setback
versus
you
know
five
feet
back
as
you
had
with
the.
I
Five,
you
originally
had
complied
with
the
five
foot
setback
for
the
attached
structure.
That's.
L
Well,
obviously,
the
the
direct
access
to
the
garage
doors
and
the
structure.
Now
that
this
is
a
coach
house,
we've
had
to
integrate
a
stair
which
required
us
to
shift
that
over
just
a
little
bit
it
also.
Quite
honestly,
you
can
see
it
in
this
image
allowed
us
to
shift
the
structure
to
the
south
just
a
little
bit,
which
allowed
more
of
a
view
through
that
site,
as
you're
passing
from
this
from
the
public
way,
seeing
through
the
depth
of
that
site,
perhaps
to
the
tree
line
in
the
distance.
I
Is
the
the
width
of
the
garage
the
same
or
is
it
greater
than
the
earlier
proposal.
L
I
I
understand
we
just
we
need
to
just
understand
the
background.
You
know
we're
getting
a
lot
of
public
comment
that
we
have
to
understand
and.
L
One
of
our
one
of
our
guiding
scope
requirements
in
this
project
was
to
create
as
much
open
space
and
usable
yard
space
for
this
family
as
we
possibly
could.
We
had
done
that
before
by
trying
to
pull
this
as
far
forward
and
allow
that
space
in
the
rear
yard.
Now
that
this
is
detached
and
we've
pushed
the
garage
10
feet
back,
we
need
to
recapture
some
of
that
yard
space
by
re
by
reclaiming
roughly
two
feet
by
moving
that
over
but
again,
the
introduction
of
a
stair
inherently
makes
this
structure
wider
than
the
previous
structure.
L
Well,
there
are
several:
the
the
reclaiming
of
outdoor
space
is
important
to
this
family
into
this
project
and
I
think
to
the
nature
of
this,
of
this
historic
district.
So
moving
that
garage
off
of
that
back
property
line
was
important
to
us.
We
also
don't
have
the
lot
coverage
to
allow
it
in
order
to
get
a
driveway
and
parking
area
wide
enough
to
address
a
two
by
two
car,
two
bay
garage
you'll,
see
in
the
zoning
we've
we're
at
the
limit.
L
Extending
that
garage
or
pushing
it
further
back
would
require
minor
zoning
variants
and
we've
been.
We
have
been
unable
to
achieve
any
minor
considerations
on
zoning
for
this
property.
Having
tried
in
our
last
application,
I
don't
know
if
you
remember,
but
the
the
gist
of
our
last
application,
which
required
a
2.3
increase
in
building
lot
coverage,
netted
a
4
decrease
in
overall
lot
coverage.
This
maintains
the
status
quo.
M
Can
I
no
sorry
two
two
things
I
I
wanted
to
ask
a
question
to
follow
up
on
what
mark
was
saying,
but
I
wanted
to.
I
actually
complement
you
on
drawing
number
one
proposed
south
elevation,
even
though
you've
made
the
mass
of
the
building
bigger
by
shifting
it
back
you're,
actually
putting
less
building
in
front
of
the
adjacent
windows
than
you
were
before,
which,
as
you
well
know,
based
on
the
number
of
people
that
are
coming,
have
sent
letters
and
are
coming
to
speak
was
in
fact
a
big
issue.
M
I'm
curious.
Why,
since
you
received
approval
for
the
last
scheme
from
with
some
with
modifications
to
your
proposal,
you're
now
showing
us
something
entirely
different,
but
I
think
did
you
answer
that
by
saying
that
you.
M
A
Okay,
gary,
why
don't
we
have
you
take
a
seat?
Please,
and
then
why
don't
we
ask
for
public
comment?
So
kade
will
read
off
the
names
who
have
signed
up
for
public
comment
and
again
we
ask
that
you
keep
your
comments
to
three
minutes
or
less
and
that
they
stay
within
the
application.
Stand
the
standards
for
the
commission
and
and
within
our
purview
go
ahead.
B
Miss
andeco:
do
you
like
to
give
a
comment
when
you
come
to
the
podium
just
state,
your
name
as
well
as
your
address.
N
N
You
know
if
it
could
be
pushed
back
15
feet,
so
my
windows
wouldn't
be
blocked,
they
could
have
a
longer
garden
wall
and
perhaps
some
harmony
and
consideration
for
other
people
who
live
there.
Our
building
is
120
years
old
and
that
window
with
a
couple
windows
that
are
blocked
there.
On
the
first
floor
belong
to
me,
someone
has
been
looking
out
those
windows
for
120
years.
N
O
My
name
is
stephen
dennenberg.
I
live
at
1213
michigan.
On
the
third
floor
there
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
speak
about
the
case.
I've
submitted
written
remarks
with
reasons
why
this
proposal
should
not
get
a
certificate
of
appropriateness,
and
I
won't
repeat
those
reasons
here.
I
hope
you've
had
a
chance
to
read
them.
K
O
A
pool,
but
they
must
do
it
appropriately
for
where
they
are,
if
they
can
do
it
as
appropriate,
respecting
the
history
of
their
home,
the
history
of
their
landmark
neighboring,
building
the
history
of
the
an
aspect
of
the
1200
block
of
michigan
avenue
and
the
standards
of
the
evanston
historic
preservation.
Then
let
them
go
at
it.
I'm
not
looking
forward
to
the
destruction
and
construction,
but
they
have
a
right
to
do
such
a
product
project.
O
I
would
like
to
say
a
little
bit
about
our
neighboring
building.
I've
lived
there
for
26
years.
The
building
was
constructed
to
be
the
mellwood
apartments
building
in
1902.
It
has
existed
in
tandem
with
the
1217
michigan
house
for
120
years,
the
building's
protected
by
landmark
status,
and
so,
in
a
sense
it's
watched
over
by
the
historic
preservation
commission.
O
The
windows
of
our
building
are
very
much
a
part
of
a
history.
They've
been
looked
at
and
through
for
120
years,
and
the
windows
of
that
era
are
continuing
concern.
O
North
wall
of
the
building
is
is
very
much
historic
presence
as
it
stands
now,
just
to
veer
off
just
slightly
because
you
know
a
kitchen
window
is
like
a
literary
cliche.
People
are
always
gazing
out
kitchen
window
while
doing
some
tasks
and
the
view
doesn't
have
to
be
anything
more
than
the
sky
and
the
treetops
and
rooftops
in
the
weather.
O
O
B
A
Okay,
then
gary,
why
don't
we
ask
you
up
to
the
podium
and
you
can
provide
any
input
to
the
public
comment?
I
know
just
to
summarize
and
I'm
sure
gary
can
expand
on
this,
but
he's
obviously
already
talked
about
the
fact
that
moving
the
garage
back
resulted
in
a
zoning
variance
which
was
not
approved.
So
I
know
that
that
was
competent
on
as
a
potential
solution,
but
it
sounds
like
that's
already
obviously
been
tried
and
was
not
approved.
A
E
L
L
A
L
Of
this
commission,
you
know
I,
I
certainly
understand
some
of
the
concerns.
I
would
also
remind
this
commission
that
the
building
to
the
south
has
a
long
and
storied
history
in
this
community.
It
is
the
foundation
of
the
zoning
code
that
we
have
today
and
was
perhaps
the
beginning
of
a
much
harder
line
taken
on
party
wall
windows
and
lot
line
conditions.
So
I,
while
I
respect
that
this
is
a
party
wall
building
built
on
a
zero
lot
line.
These
windows
were
not
destined
to
exist
forever.
L
If
it
ever
another
building
were
to
be
built
there
had
the
zoning
code
not
changed
at
that
time,
those
windows
would
have
been
bricked
up
a
long
time
ago.
So,
while
I
understand
the
concern,
it
should
not
preclude
my
client
from
being
able
to
build
appropriately
and
as
of
right
on
their
property
so
well,
I
feel
I
understand
the
anxiety
with
this.
I
think
we've
provided
a
very
appropriate
project.
L
O
D
Yeah
I
have,
I
understand,
we
can't
move
the
garage
because
of
because
of
zoning,
but
under
standards
for
standards
for
construction
number,
11,
directional
expression
of
facades.
D
It
I
mean,
I
don't
know
how
we
apply
that
because
it
because
it's
the
current
residence
of
1213
michigan,
if
this
is
approved,
would
be
looking
at
a
at
a
garage
with
no
windows
or
no.
It
would
just
be
like
a
blank
beside
I
mean.
Is
there
a
way
of
like
addressing
the
fact
that,
like
they're
gonna
be
having
you
know,
a
large
void
of
blank
wall,
three
feet
away
from
their
with
prime
their
primary
residential
windows?.
A
You
know
rhythm
of
voids
those
types
of
situations
just
because
I
do
believe
that's
more
of
our
focus
for
this
case,
whereas
I
do
understand
the
issues
with
the
neighboring
building,
but
I
do
think
that
we
have
to
kind
of
stay
within
our
purview
on
that
unless
kate,
you
think
that
I
missed.
M
It
was
my
I
don't
even
know
if
you
can
see
that
side
facade
from
the
street
and
it's
my
understanding
that
the
facades
that
we
discuss
relative
to
the
standards
are
ones
that
are
visible
from
a
public
way
which
in
this
case
I
don't
think
the
side
of
the
garage
really
really
is.
I
the
only
thing
that
I
can
say
speaking
as
a
commissioner
is
that
the
problem
that
the
residents
of
the
adjacent
building
perceive
is
one
that
the
zoning
ordinance
was
written
to
give
relief
from.
M
We
have
no
way
to
take
action
except
to
evaluate,
what's
shown
us
in
terms
of
the
standards
which
are
online
and
available
to
everyone.
That's
here
tonight.
Sadly,
there
is
architects,
aren't
required
to
take
a
hippocratic
oath.
Is
this
a
wonderful
thing
to
do
here
to
the
windows
and
the
neighbors?
No,
but
it
certainly
is
within
the
rights
of
the
owner
of
this
property
to
to
build
the
structure.
The
way
it's
been
designed.
A
A
So
when
I
went
through
these
standards-
and
I
looked
at
the
application,
I
actually
think
that
the
height
and
the
scale
of
this
coach
house
is
very
much
in
line
with
the
landmark
home
that
exists.
I
think
it
fits
within
that
fabric.
It's
very
similar
to
what
we
see
on
many
other
coach
house
proposals.
A
I
do
feel
it
satisfies
those
standards
and,
as
far
as
the
rhythms
of
the
voids
the
solids
to
voids
and
the
spacing
of
the
structures
on
the
street
again,
I
do
think
that
there
was
a
lot
of
care
taken
to
make
this
coach
house
look
very
much
in
the
same
fabric
in
the
same
aesthetic
as
the
origin,
the
landmark
house.
A
So
that
would
be
my
take
on
the
standards
that
I
noticed
in
the
public
comments
and
just
in
the
standards
in
general.
There
are
other
standards,
of
course,
but
I
feel
that
those
were
the
ones
that
were
pointed
out.
I
don't
know
if
there
are
other
commissioners
that
would
like
to
comment
to
that
as
well.
H
H
I
was
satisfied
with
the
rhythm
of
the
spacing
and
the
structures
on
the
streets.
I
feel
I
tried
to
imagine
exactly
how
far
it
be
set
back
and
the
windows
and
everything-
and
this
is
an
extremely
helpful
sheet.
I
appreciate
that.
Okay,
maybe
for
other
ones,
that
are
close
to
a
property
line.
H
K
N
B
N
B
There's
a
separate
set
of
zoning
regulations
if
they
decide
to
use
it
for
to
be
like
an
accessory
dwelling
unit
or
something
okay,.
I
I
I've
looked
carefully
at
the
standards
for
construction
and
you
know,
while
I
heard
the
other
arguments
relating
to
the
standards
unrelated
to
the
setback,
it's
you
know,
it's
really
hard
to
find
any
standard.
That
applies
to
the
the
setback,
which
is
really
the
issue,
and
that
you
know
I
think
everybody
feels
bad
about
the
you
know.
The
zoning
code
obviously
specifically
addresses
setbacks,
and
that's
really
I
mean
it
really
is
a
zoning
issue
about
what
zoning
permits.
I
Now
again,
I
think
it's
legitimate
to
question
whether
your
neighbor
should
use
the
full
scope
of
their
legal
rights
and
to
the
detriment
of
their
neighbor
and
that's
a
very
valid
concern,
but
it's
just
it's
not
something.
We
as
applying
the
preservation
code
have
any
right
to
apply.
A
And
I
do
think
that
the
michigan
this
this
michigan
block
is
problematic,
so
it's
always
been
because
it
does
not
have
an
alley
like
we've
had
several
cases
that
have
come
in
front
of
us
on
this
in
this
area
that
have
been
problematic.
So
I
do
think
it's
a
it's
a
struggle
to
find
out
good
solution
for
everyone
on
this
in
the
in
this
area,
any
other.
O
Of
a
rear
yard-
because
this
is
there's
about
20
feet
behind
this
exist,
this
proposed
garage
so.
G
B
B
And
constructed
in
two-story,
circular
stair,
at
the
rear
of
the
property,
alter
the
principal
structure's,
rear
volume,
fenestration
construct
a
two-story,
rear,
porch
edition
and
stairway
and
construct
a
wrought
iron
railing
at
the
existing
front.
Stoop
applicable
standards
demolition,
one
through
five
alteration,
one
through
ten
construction,
one
through
eight
and
ten
through
fifteen.
Q
Thank
you
in
advance
for
your
consideration.
As
I
mentioned,
or
as
kade
mentioned,
my
name
is
patrick
jean-jacques.
Two
years
ago
we
purchased
2418
park
place
and
we
enlisted
the
services
of
a
george
mandiris
architect
to
assist
us
with
developing
a
rear
porch,
as
well
as
designed
for
the
front
of
the
home.
Unfortunately,.
Q
Just
before
we're
able
to
make
a
be
appointed
for
this
meeting
for
for
approval
for
the
certificate
of
appropriateness,
I've
had
the
pleasure
of
talking
with
some
of
you
as
I've
engaged
in
this
journey
to
to
make
changes
and
modifications
to
to
the
home.
In
speaking
with
george,
what
was
very
important
to
us
was
maintaining
the
the
style
of
the
main
home
when
developing
the
rear
of
the
porch
as
a
side
note
which
probably
isn't
appropriate.
Q
Q
As
you
can
see,
this
is
actually
the
proposed
rear
area
as
well
as
these
are
some
minor
changes
that
we
plan
to
do
to
the
front
of
the
home
as
well.
Q
Q
Q
That
we
are
pretty
sure
is,
is
of
error
and
was
was
there
when
the
home
was
originally
built,
and
so
our
hope
in
the
proposed
approach
is
to
continue
with
the
same
post
styles
and
replicate
that
at
different
areas.
Q
I
do
have
two
daughters
right
there
and
it
was
important
for
us
also
to
maintain
the
safety.
As
of
now
there's
nothing
here
for
from
a
railing
perspective,
and
so
it's
our
hope
that
we're
able
to
actually
to
provide
some
type
of
protection
in
that
area
and
and
maintain
also
this
the
style
of
the
home.
Q
If
we
go
to
the
next
slide,
one
thing
that
we
would
have
to
do
is
remove
some
of
the
railing
that
exists
here.
This,
we
believe,
is
not
of
error.
It
is
actually
some
rails
that
were
put
in
place
and
they
do
not
have
any
significance,
as
it
relates
to
the
the
style
of
the
home
they're
very
standard
rails.
Q
This
next
slide
did
I
do
that
by
the
way.
Is
that
oh,
okay,
I
now
say
I
can
do
that
all
right
great
this
here
will
show
kind
of
what
our
proposals
are.
Some
of
the
things
that
we
really
tried
to,
and
I
I've
spoken
to
it
a
bit.
We
we
plan
to
actually
use
masonry
peers
which
exists
currently
on
one
side
of
the
home
and
actually
replicated
to
the
other
side
of
the
home
to
match
the
existing
elevation.
Q
In
addition,
we
plan
to
patch
existing
brick
concrete,
as
required.
There
seems
to
be
some
brick
underneath
there
there
was
some.
I
don't
know
if
it's
skim
coating
of
of
of
cement,
that
they've
done
to
patch
it,
and
our
hope
is
that
we
can
actually
get
get
underneath
it
and
expose
some
of
the
brick,
hopefully,
and
and
actually
just
either
expose
the
brick
itself
or
try
and
put
a
more
permanent
solution
here.
Q
Q
If
you
will,
you
can
see
here
that
I've
mentioned
kind
of
the
posts
that
we
plan
to
use
that
will
be
replicated,
and
so
we
would
add
additional
posts
at
these
various
points
to
ensure
that
we
fully
somewhat
provide
some
some
protection
from
falling
off
of
that
that
front
porch.
Q
Q
Now
I'll
walk
you
guys
through
the
rear
of
the
of
the
home
that
we
plan
on
on
actually
creating.
This
is
the
current
state
of
the
rear
of
the
home.
I
did
some
slight
research
on
the
home
at
some
point.
This
home
was
actually
a
a
two
flat
at
a
certain
period
in
which
there
was
a
porch
in
the
back
of
the
home.
Q
We
we
actually
and
I'll,
show
you
this
in
the
next
slide.
We
actually
plan
on
removing
that
still
staircase
spiral,
staircase
and
and
you'll
see
in
the
next
slides,
but
you
can
see
this
is
the
proposed
future.
I
will
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
how
we
tried
to
well.
I
can
talk
about
it
now.
Actually,
we
tried
to
really
make
sure
that
we
followed
a
lot
of
the
the
cornice
and
brackets
styles
that
exist
in
the
main
portion
of
the
home.
Q
We
also
tried
to
carry
instead
of
carrie
ford
carried
back
to
the
rear
of
the
home,
the
wrought
iron,
the
use
of
wrought
iron
materials
as
well.
In
the
back
of
the
home,
george
really
tried
to
emphasize
the
use
of
a
trek
deck
material
to
provide
a
more
permanent
solution
instead
of
wood.
Because
of
the
the
durability
of
that-
and
you
know,
I-
I
followed
his
recommendations
as
such.
Q
In
addition,
some
of
the
molding
styles
were
something
in
which
we
thought
would
be
a
very
appropriate
stylistic
factor
to
to
the
home
as
well.
Q
Q
I
I've
talked
to
the
prior
owners
all
living
prior
owners,
and
unfortunately
I
don't
have
the
date
in
which
the
greenhouse
was
was
created,
but
this
was
also
done,
I
believe
in
the
70s.
Oh
no
sometime,
you
know
in
the
70s,
but
our
plan
is
to
remove
this
in
in
hopes
of
creating
the
actual
deck
in
the
rear.
I've
mentioned
the
the
wrought
iron
handrails
that
will
be
removed,
but
replaced
with
actual
posts
that
are
of
area
era,
be
prior
to
the
passing
of
george.
Q
I
I
had
one
last
revision
request
with
george,
and
it
was
just
an
area
in
which
we
did
not
factor
in
it
was
the
actual
removal
of
these
small
windows
on
the
side
of
the.
This
is
an
addition
that
was
added.
Q
Q
I
do
plan
on
on
updating
the
architectural
plans
to
to
reflect
that,
but
I
did
want
to
at
least
keep
all
of
you
informed
that
that
would
potentially
happen
with
your
your
approval.
Q
In
addition
to
that,
the
on
the
the
west
side
of
the
home,
we
do
plan
to
remove
these
windows.
Particular
george
emphasized
that
we
can
do.
Is
it
called
an
inset
where
it
can
actually
show
that
there
was
at
one
point
a
window
there
and
then
allow
if
at
a
later
point,
someone
else
were
to
want
to
place
a
window
there.
Eventually,
we
at
least
wanted
to
respect
that
that
does
fall
in
line
with
the
front
of
the
home.
Q
Thank
you.
This
shows
the
openings
that
would
occur
for
the
back
of
the
deck
we
plan
to
actually
open
the
rear,
so
that
we
can
have
an
outdoor
indoor
type
of
concept
on
the
rev
rear
of
the
deck.
Q
In
addition,
it
shows
that
there
would
be
downspouts
that
would
be
removed
as
well
as
the
door
that
is
on
the
second
floor.
We
did
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
the
home
was
a
two
unit
at
some
point,
and
we
do
think
that
that
possibly
was
one
of
the
uses.
This
would,
you
know
fully
make
sure
that
we
converted
fully
to
a
single-family
home
and
allow
for
us
to
to
really
make
use
of
that
area
in
which
you
know
we
would
probably
use
as
a
closet.
Q
This
just
shows
the
different
grades
of
the
the
home
and
what
will
be
shown
to
the
far
right.
We
can
see
that
there
would
be
an
area
well
in
which
you
can
enter
into
the
basement
as
well.
You
can
see
the
stairs
that
would
go
up
to
the
rear
of
the
home.
Q
In
addition,
you
see
the
stairs
that
would
come
up
to
the
actual
deck
here.
You
can
see
the
deck
of
the
main
floor,
and
this
just
shows
a
little
renderings
of
potentials
that
we
can
have
there.
I'm
a
big
fan
of
the
grill,
but
that's
something
that
we'll
be
placing
there
as
well
and
then
to
the
far
left,
the
second
level
of
the
actual
deck
as
well.
Q
This
will
be
a
there
will
be
a
covering
on
top
of
it
as
well
as
you
can
see
in
the
the
future
renderings
here
I
did.
I
did
want
to
add
details
as
it
relates
to
the
window,
so
the
window
details
that
will
be
placed
will
be
extruded
aluminum.
Q
Q
I
plan
to
work
with
I've
been
working
with
pella
and
pella
has
worked
with
the
national
park
service
to
ensure
that
this
was
historically
accurate,
and
so,
if
we
are
approved,
we
plan
on
using
the
pillow
windows
as
well.
Q
Q
This
shows
the
actual,
and
we
talked
about
this
a
little
bit,
but
this
shows
the
actual.
I
think
it's
called
the
inset
of
the
the
side
of
the
the
reason
why
we
wanted.
This
is
because
this
is
where
the
kitchen
will
exist
and
we
plan
on
having
actual
cabinets
on
the
on
that
wall,
in
particular,.
Q
Here
you
can
here,
you
can
see
kind
of
how
the
I
think
these
are
the
proposed
footings
and
how
they
would
where
they
would
occur.
And
it's
this
you
know
the
east
elevation
of
the
home
as
well
as
a
proposed
railing
that
exists
in
the
front
of
the
home.
Q
Once
again,
these
are
renderings
of
of
of
how
it
look
and,
and
and
really
we
wanted
to
emphasize
kind
of
some
of
the
same
detail
that
exists
in
the
main
home
to
make
it
to
simulate
exactly
how
the
home
would
look
in
the
to
to
follow
the
the
rhythm.
I
guess
I
guess
you
could
say
rhythm
and
spacing
of
and
the
aesthetics
of
the
of
the
the
main
home.
Q
Beyond
the
actual,
I
I've
talked
with
the
owners
that
actually
built
it
and
it
was
built
in
it
was
installed
in
1994..
Q
M
H
G
I
have
a
question
about.
Excuse
me
the
railing
on
the
front
porch-
and
this
is
also
maybe
directed
at
my
other
commissioners-
that
I
have.
I
don't
object
to
the
aesthetics
of
it
at
all,
but
I'm
curious
since
it
doesn't
come
anywhere
near
meeting
the
current
building
code.
Has
that
been
discussed
with
the
building
department?
Do
you
do
someone
get
a
an
exception
on
the
on
the
on
the
rule
in
a
in
a
landmark
situation
like
this.
B
It's
something
he
would
have
to
apply
for,
there's
no
guarantee
that
it
would
be
approved.
You
could
apply
to
have
something:
that's
not
code
compliant
because
it
has
some
kind
of
historical
significance
to
the
home,
but
I
think
some
changes
to
it
could
probably
be
approved
administratively
as
a
modification
to
it.
If
anyone
has
any
suggestions
about
what
that
might
look
like,
it
might
be
an
appropriate
time
to
discuss
that.
M
A
Is
there
no
any
a
public
comment
to
this
case?
Okay,
is
there
any
commissioner
discussion.
M
J
I
have
a,
I
have
a
question
about
that
for
staff
if
they
have
to
make
a
change
or
we're
assuming
they're
going
to
have
to
make
a
change
to
this
right
and
we
do
not
give
them
a
recommendation,
will
they
have
to
come
back
or
would
that
be
a
minor.
M
I
mean
what
what
would
the
actual
process
be
on
that
I
mean
if
you,
if
you
were
to
move
forward
and
submit
for
a
building
permit
showing
that
railing,
it
would
probably
come
back
to
you
or
to
your
architect
as
a
correction.
M
If
you
then
altered
the
railing,
would
we
it
need
to
come
back
to
to
caden
carlos
for
administrative.
C
C
If
I
may,
you
know
the
railing
on
the
back,
it's
very
well
established,
and
it
appears
that
the
commission
doesn't
have
any
objections
to
it.
So
maybe
matching
the
two
styles
front
and
back
might
be
a
way
to
go.
G
The
only
aesthetic
concern
that
I
might
have
with
duplicating
the
rear
railing
on
the
front
porch
if
it
goes,
that
route
would
be
that
I'm
seeing
a
42
inch
dimension
from
the
deck
to
the
top
of
the
rail
on
the
back,
and
I'm
not
suggesting
that
that
be
lowered,
but
I'm
not
sure
aesthetically
that
that
will
look
so
great
on
the
front
of
the
house.
I
certainly
think
that
the
same
style,
rail
at
a
three
foot
height
would
would
be
acceptable,
at
least
to
me.
C
J
Q
If
I
may
add,
I
am
not
opposed
to
actually
sourcing
posts
that
are
taller
similar
to
the
the
main
post
in
the
front,
the
existing
main
posts,
I'm
not
sure
exactly
what
the
measurement
is,
but
I'm
working
with
a
preservation
consultant
actually,
who
I
I
believe,
would
be
able
to
find
the
taller
posts
so
that
it
can
hopefully
maintain
the
height.
That's
in
that
that
that
we
need,
on
you,
know
all
the
way
around.
I'm.
P
Q
Not
tied
to
actually
having
the
same
height
the
shorter
height.
So
if
that's
an
issue,
I'm
I'm
not
opposed
to
that.
I
I
would
I
mean,
in
my
opinion,
would
prefer
to
keep
and
maintain
what
at
least
the
style
of
those
posts
in
the
front
of
the
home,
if
possible,
instead
of
what's
at
the
rear
of
the
home.
But
I
obviously
respect
your
your
opinions
as
well,
so.
J
J
A
M
B
A
J
The
only
thing
that
I
wanted
to
ask
my
fellow
commissioners
about
is
the
I
was
trying
to
remember
the
term
for
this.
The
sort
of
filigree
corner
details
there
and
whether
those
seem
appropriate
for
the
house.
M
They
they
s
the
design.
If
you
go
to
the
to
the
line,
drawings
seems
to
be
based
on
the
design
of
the
bracketing
under
the
eaves.
H
Yeah,
I
was
thinking
the
same
that
they
were
matching
the
existing.
Is
that
something
we
can
ask
to
confirm.
H
Q
That
is
correct,
as
you
can
see
here,
there
are
brackets
that
exist
here
in
which
we
we
tried.
Georgia
attempted
to
to
replicate
throughout
this.
Just
to
stylistically
seem
like
it
all
was
together.
I
don't
know
so.
I
M
There
one
looks
to
be
an
adaptation
of
the
other
if
you
look
at
e
proposed
west
side
elevation
when,
when
I
blow
that
up
on
my
screen,
it's
similar
but
not
identical,
which
I
I
don't
have
a,
I
don't
have
a
problem
with.
I
Q
I
can
double
check
to
see
the
picture
you
know
at
my
house,
but
I
think
the
rear
of
the
porch
is
I'm
sure
we
can
try
our
best
to
source
ones
that
replicate
it.
You
know
as
much
as
close
as
possible
to
the
what
exists
at
the
top
of
the
house
here.
If
I'm
understanding
the
the
question
correctly,
it's
you're
asking
which
one
is
more
accurate
of
a
representation
between
the
two
and
and
my
response
is
that
I
I
can
try.
M
You
know
three
quarter
inch
thick
filigree
stuff
like
this,
which
is
actually
kind
of
tacky
looking,
and
that
what
we're
all
secretly
hoping
is
that,
when
this
is
detailed,
it'll
actually
have
a
thickness,
that's
equivalent
to
the
five
and
a
half
inch
posts
that
you're
showing
on
the
on
the
on
the
rear
porch,
which
I
think
will
give
it
a
kind
of
heft
and
quality
that
would
be
similar
to
the
to
the
brackets
on
the
house.
M
Although
there's
no
way
to
really
tell
how
thick
those
are
supposed
to
be
from
the
well
actually,
the
perspective
makes
it
look
like
it's
set
back
about
a
half
an
inch
from
the
face
of
the
column
and
the
pattern's
a
little
different.
But
I
you
know,
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
you
know
the
purview
of
the
design
of
the
architect.
J
J
J
A
I
think
if
you
have
questions
along
the
way
you
can
always
obviously
reach
out
to
kade,
and
he
can
talk
with.
I
think
sarah
and
john
have
offered
to
help
with
the
front
railing
as
a
subcommittee,
so
I'm
sure
that
you
guys
would
be
yeah
willing
to
look
at
something
if
there
are
questions.
Okay
on
them,.
H
And
and
if
I
can
just
differentiate,
there's
the
brackets
right,
the
new
brackets
right
under
the
roof
line
that
are
painted
the
the
black
and
the
white,
you
know
the
contrasting
colors,
those
would
be
the
ones
that
were
looking
to
be
more
hefty
and
then
the
more
lacy
ones
that
are
in
between
each
of
the
porch
openings.
H
I
I
understand
what
you're
saying
that
it
might
maybe
changes
that
style
a
little
bit
about
kind
of
adding
the
lightness
to
that.
That
is
different
from
the
rest
of
the
house.
H
I'd
be
fine
if
they
didn't
have
that
the
the
ones
in
between
the
lighter
lacy
ones.
I'm.
H
No
problem-
and
I'm
not-
I
wouldn't
require
that
I
mean
I
think
it's
it's
okay,
but
it
would
look
just
as
good
without
it,
in
my
opinion,
too,
just
but
keep
your
big
ones
up
at
the
top
roof
line.
K
Q
If
I
point
is,
are
we
just
which
ones
are
you
describing
that
there's
no
need
to.
H
Yes,
those
are
the
good
like
the
nice
hefty
ones
that
you
want
to
look
similar,
but
they
don't
have
to
be
matchy-matchy
to
the
original
ones
and
then
those
are
the
lacy
ones.
Yes,
that,
in
my
opinion,
you
could
give
or
take
okay.
J
M
Think
this
is
this,
is
you
saw
the
drawing
with?
Without
those
you
would
think
that
the
proportions
of
the
columns
were
whether
the
posts
were
too
thin,
even
though
you
know
you
know,
a
six
by
six
post
is
going
to
hold
that
up.
Just
fine,
I
mean
I.
C
I
mean
not
into
the
comments
from
the
commission
about
the
detail.
One
of
the
things
that
is
important
to
keep
in
mind
is
that
this
is
not
the
rebuilding
of
a
original
rear.
Porch
is
the
addition
of
a
two-story
porch
that,
according
to
the
standards,
if
you
can
summarize,
the
17
of
them
has
to
be
compatible
and
minimize
adverse
effect,
and
I
think
that,
in
all
respects,
all
the
comments
that
you
heard
from
the
commissioners
is
basically
addressing
that
not
trying
to
go
to
too
much
into
replicating
everything
or
backing
to
the
mining
detail.
C
A
I
will
say
it's
a
very
thorough
application.
We
appreciate
all
the
detail
you
put
into
it
it's
much
more
detailed
than
what
we
would
normally
see.
So
we
appreciate
that.
Thank
you
with
that
said.
Is
there
a
way
then
we
can
make
a
motion
with
the
subcommittee
of
commissioners
and
a
staff
review
of
any
of
these
items
that
might
come
up.
J
I
can
try
we're
ready
to
make
the
motion
then
all
right,
I
would
like
to
move
to
approve
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
for
2418
park,
place
landmark
22
prez-0050,
patrick
john
jacques.
Did
I
pronounce
it
patrick
jean-jacques
owner,
submits
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
demolish
the
single-story
greenhouse
edition
and
two-story
circular
stair
at
the
rear
of
the
property,
alter
the
principal
structure's,
rear
volume,
fenestration
construct
a
two-story
rear,
porch
addition
and
stairway
and
construct
a
wrought
iron
railing
at
the
existing
front.
Stoop.
J
J
A
B
The
last
case
is
548
judson
avenue
in
the
lakeshore
historic
district.
This
case
number
is
19.
Pres-0262
maria
nano's
owner
seeks
approval
of
substantial
modifications
to
a
previously
approved
certificate
of
appropriateness,
19
pres
0262
for
construction
of
a
new
two-story
single-family
residence
and
detached
two-story
coach
house
and
garage
alterations.
B
P
P
You
probably
heard
this
a
lot
from
people
who
got
approval
from
you
in
february
of
2020,
and
it's
been
very
interesting
say
the
least
so
I'd
like
to
walk
you
through,
like
kate,
has
been
tremendously
helpful
with
us
to
talk
about
these
changes
that
we've
had.
P
I
think
you
got
the
packet
there
listed,
how
we
did.
This
was
a
a
was
existing
and
a
a
proposed.
We
just
followed
through
that,
so
we
could
just
start
with
the
first
one.
We
changed
the
front
door,
so
the
existing
that
was
approved
had
a
little
transit
up
at
the
top,
and
just
for
your
just
so
you
recall,
this
is
a
brand
new
construction,
okay
and
then
the
next
photo
or
the
next
picture
shows
the
front
door
with
no
transom.
P
Next
we
had
the
initial
plan
was
to
have
three
gables
in
consultation
with
the
architect
and
and
that
team
they
had
suggested
that
that
was
looking
a
little
too
busy
for
the
style
of
the
house
and
that
it
didn't
serve
a
function
that
it
was
simply
for
aesthetics,
and
so
we
all
agreed
to
remove
it.
So
the
next
bb
shows
what
it
would
look
like
without
that
third
gable.
P
So,
if
you're
facing
the
street,
the
wall
came
out,
I
know
the
dimension
is
on
there
somewhere
came
out
and
then
the
original
design
was
that
the
it
wasn't
even
it
popped
out,
maybe
two
feet
and
again
we
just
agreed
that
this
doesn't
didn't,
look
very
balanced.
So
the
next
next
picture
would
show
that
those
are
in
fact,
even
which
kind
of
closed
off
that
front.
P
P
So
that's
what
we're
proposing
and
the
rest
are
windows.
So
again,
the
architect
suggested
it's
better
to
put
windows
in
and
then
you
can
always
take
them
out,
rather
than
add
them
in
and
as
we
got
rolling
with
with
the
plan
and
function
inside
the
house,
we
were
removing
the
windows
that
you
see.
This
is
the
north
side
of
the
home.
P
Similarly,
the
next
one,
I
believe,
shows
the
removing
those
double
hung
on
the
south
elevation,
and
I
don't
know
if
you
want
me
to
explain
why
or
I
guess
we
can
wait
till
the
end,
but
in
case
this
comes
up
so
this
again
that
porch
that
I
was
mentioning
their
side
porch
as
we
stood
on
their
porch
and
looked
in,
and
we
said
to
the
architect,
show
us
where
those
windows
would
be,
and
he
took
a
tape.
P
He
said
right
about
there,
which
was
literally
eye
level
to
the
porch
right
beside
the
house,
so
we
thought
you
know
walking
up
and
down
your
stairs,
that's
where
those
would
have
been
just
for
privacy
that
was
feeling
a
little
exposed
so
to
speak.
So
the
next.
The
next
picture
just
shows
you
what
that
looks
like
without,
and
then
he
suggested
put
that
longer
window
up
on
the
top
just
so
there
is
some
light
on
that
side
of
the
house,
but
high
enough
that
nobody's
staring
in
or
we're
looking
at
one
another.
P
This
is
the
garage
and
we
never
wanted
any
windows
at
grade
just
again
for
privacy
and
security,
our
house
right
now
we
have
no
windows
upgrade
and
I
like
it
because
nobody
can
break
in
there
and
push
somebody
through
to
open
the
door.
So
we
didn't
want
that
to
begin
with
yeah.
This
copy
didn't
come
out
very
well,
but
it
I
have
copies
if
anybody
would
like
them,
but
this
is
simply
the
exact
design
without
the
window
similar.
P
P
And
the
topography,
what
do
you
call
that
document?
Thank
you
quite
a
survey
for
both
the
garage
and
the
and
the
home.
We
did
bring
up
a
sample
of
that
interior
because
I
don't.
I
don't
know
that
it
was
indicated
what
the
interior
of
the
porch
would
look
like,
and
it's
actually
a
it's
kind
of
a
neat.
It
looks
like
wood,
it's
not
wood.
It's
kind
of
just
aluminum.
R
It's
just
a
lot
on
commercial
grade
properties,
but
we've
seen
them
a
lot
actually
a
few
in
evanston
one
on
asbury
has
it
and
some
other
homes,
so
it
was
just
for
aesthetics
and
to
give
the
house
a
little
bit
of
a
contemporary
farmhouse
style,
so
a
little
architectural
design.
So
this
is
the
product.
Do.
M
Yeah,
I
have
some
questions.
Can
you
tell
me
in
that
image?
What
is
what's
the
material
in
the
gable
end.
P
That's
all
hardy
board,
so
it's
it's
literally
hardy
board,
just
the
other
direction.
We've
brought
it
out.
P
We
wanted
a
little
bit
of
dimension
in
there,
so
we
put
the
the
vertical
on
top
we're
actually
mimicking
the
house.
What's
the
name
of
that
street
just
east
is
that
yeah
and
michigan
there's
one.
So
we
were
kind
of
mimicking
the.
M
Okay,
and
can
you
tell
me
why
why
you've
gone
to
casement
windows
almost
everywhere,
but
not
quite
everywhere,
instead
of
the
double
hungs
that
was
shown
in
the
original
scheme,.
P
M
Okay
and
in
your
rendering
it
shows
those
casement
windows
as
divided
light
and
in
your
elevations.
It
does
not,
which
is
what's
your
intention.
M
Okay,
well,
the
garage
is
still
showing
double
hungs
and
I
thought
there
were
some
that
doesn't
doesn't
matter
so
you're
changing
everything,
that's
shown
in
the
old
drawings
to
casements,
correct,
okay,.
E
R
Going
to
be
very
tiny
like
if
it's
in
one
of
the
bathrooms,
I'm
sorry
I
apologize
anything,
that's
going
to
be
like
in
a
bathroom.
Probably
will
not
have,
should
not
have
those
dividers.
It's
just
going
to
be
the
much
larger
scale.
Windows.
R
M
In
for
the
basement
level,.
R
M
M
Certainty:
okay,
and
are
they
clad
windows
painted
windows?
Are
the
divisions
adhered
to
the
glass?
Are
they
real
divisions
in
the
glass?
Are
they
snap-ins
that
are
on
the
inside?
They.
R
Then
we
were
told
that
the
lead
time
was
relatively
reasonable,
maybe
eight
to
ten
weeks
and
then
marvin
jumped
up
to
about
16
weeks.
So
we
went
and
we
received
an
estimate
from
pella
for
a
very
similar
product,
slightly
larger
glass
windows,
because
theirs
were
only
at
eight
weeks
and
in
the
interim,
with
everything
that's
been
happening.
R
The
pella
are
now
at
12
weeks
and
now
our
the
marvins,
all
of
our
we
had
every
window
in
the
house.
You
know
the
cutouts
all
resized
for
marvin
and
now
marvin
is
at
20
weeks
minimum.
So
we
have
not
selected.
Obviously
until
we
received
approval
which
window
company
we
plan
to
go
with,
but
they
will
be
all
wood
and
we'd
like
to
go
with
casement,
but
we're
trying
to
get
the
ones
that
are
going
to
be
the
quickest.
M
M
I
I
know,
but
what
I'm
saying
is
they
make
a
few
products
that
vary
in
cost?
Some
of
them
have
divisions
which
are
actually
adhered
to,
both
the
inside
and
the
outside
of
the
thermal
pain.
Some
of
them
simply
have
divisions
which
are
fit
to
the
frame
on
the
inside
of
the
window,
which
which
forget
pella
versus
marvin,
because
they
make
the
same
things
essentially,
which
which
product
are
you
proposing
for
this
house.
P
They
were
on
the
inside
weren't.
They
it's
been,
you
know
well.
M
R
Well,
let's
see
here
this
says:
divided
light
cut
alignment.
This
is
on
the
marvin
elevate,
it
says,
divided
light
cut.
Does.
R
R
A
K
A
B
A
I
think
that
is
true,
and
I
think
that
is
a
discussion
we
need
to
have.
It
is
a
new
home.
We
have
approved
fiberglass,
I
believe,
on
new
construction
in
the
past.
So
that's
another
discussion
item.
If
we
are,
if
we
find
that
acceptable
on
an
alternate
material
or
if
it
needs
to
be
the
wood
aluminum
clad,
I
think,
since
we
have
all
the
windows
would
be
the
same
construction
and
it
is
a
new
construction.
A
M
You
know
I
I
apologize,
I'm
not
trying
to
be
difficult.
The
reason
I
ask
you
about
your
architect
is
every
single
one
of
these
drawings
doesn't
agree
with
the
other
drawings,
I'm
looking
at
the
rendering
and
the
rendering
shows
divided
lights,
which
are
very
different
from
what
you've
shown
me.
M
It
also
shows
the
the
hardy
board,
siding
in
the
gable
ends
being
the
same
scale
as
the
clabbird
on
the
sides.
So
I
mean
I
can
only
speak
for
myself,
but
I
don't
know.
I
couldn't
approve
this
because
I
don't
know
what
I'm
approving.
P
Well,
my
understanding
was
the
the
questions
were
the
the
door,
the
elevation,
the
gable
and
the
window
placement
and
function,
and
that's
what
we're
we're
trying
to
address.
M
I
mean
the
rendering
also
doesn't
it.
It
shows
a
solid
door,
but
it
shows
a
solid
door
that
goes
all
the
way
up
to
the
underside
of
the
porch
roof
right,
but
it
I
can't
tell
from
the
drawings
whether
you're
going
back
to
the
the
version
that
has
the
transom
above
it
or
whether
it's
simply
a
much
taller
door.
So.
B
I
wouldn't
use
the
rendering
as
the
basis
for
making
your
decisions
just
because
I
that's
something
that
I
requested
from
the
contractor
and
I
think,
based
on
the
timing
that
they
needed
to
turn
around
the
submission
he
put
something
together.
That's
more
reflective
of
the
I
think
the
massing
than
it
is
the
actual,
the
cladding
and
the
in
the
components.
M
I
mean,
I
guess
the
reason
that
I'm
asking
is
I'm
looking
at
the
before
and
after,
and
actually
think
that
and
again
this
doesn't
bear
on
anything
but,
in
my
opinion,
the
slightly
wider
front
door
with
the
transom.
Actually,
I
think,
looks
a
little
bit
better,
but
you
know.
B
And
just
as
a
point
of
clarification
for
the
commissioners
you're,
you
don't
have
to
just
review
what
the
what
the
changes
are
necessarily
the
way
that
the
rules
are
structured
you're
allowed
to
apply
the
standards
generally
for
all
these
aspects.
So
if
you
feel
like
the
proportion
of
the
front,
opening
of
the
of
the
door
does
not
relate
to
the
opening
size
of
of
the
you
know
the
rest
of
the
house
and
the
windows,
then
that
is
something
that
would
be
under
your
purview.
G
I
agree
with
stuart
on
the
on
the
front
door.
It
looks
a
little
lonely
on
that
big
field
of
wall
there
without
the
transom,
also
the
the
the
hardy
board
and
batten
and
the
gable
ends
also
seems
a
little
sparse.
G
I
I
don't
know
what's
subject
to
our
discussion
tonight,
although
you
just
you
just
indicated
that
anything
is
game,
any
any
change
that
we
see
anyway,
and
those
are
two
big
changes
that
we're
we're.
Looking
at
it's
hard
to
assess
the
windows
without
seeing
all
the
muttons
in
in
place
and
the
different
proportions
to
make
sure
that
they're,
consistent
and
and
what
we
like
to
see.
G
A
Why
don't
we
let
you?
Why
don't
you
take
a
seat
just
so
that
you
don't
have
to
okay?
So
going
back
to
john's
comment,
I
mean
I
personally
feel
that
this
could
be
handled
with
a
subcommittee
and
administratively
if
it's
something
that
just
needs
to
be
resolved
with
what
mutton
grids
are
being
put
in
and
whether
they're
being
put
in
the
basement
windows
or
whether
it
be
put
in
the
bathroom
which
windows
are
those.
A
I
A
I
D
A
R
If
I
can
just
say
one
thing,
john
because
you
mentioned
that
so
when
we
removed
the
transom,
we
decided
to
go
with
a
larger
door,
so
the
door,
the
door
is
actually
quite
large.
It's
not
a
standard
size
door,
so
it
really
encompasses
where
the
transom
was.
We
just
didn't
want
people
to
be
able
to
look
in
from
the
street
into
the
glass
of
the
transom
to
be
able
to
see
up,
because
it
will
lead
right
to
where
our
stairs.
I
R
I
A
R
A
So
I
think,
just
to
echo
what
what
stewart
is
saying.
It
is
a
little
bit
difficult
for
us
to
make
sure
that
we
know
what
you're
proposing
when
the
elevation
is
showing
one
thing
and
then
the
rendering's
showing
one
thing,
and
then
you
know
now
we're
hearing
that
the
door
is
taller.
So
I
think
what
I'd
like
to
ask
my
fellow
commissioners
is:
is
that
do
we
think
that
this
needs
to
come
back
with
revised
drawings,
or
do
we
think
this
can
be
handled
with
a
subcommittee,
an
administrative
review.
A
I
M
Well,
no,
I
mean
you
know
we're
seeing
we're
building
stuff
we're
seeing
the
same
thing
with
windows.
It's
maddening.
We
just
had
a
job
where
they
changed
from
pillow
windows
to
marvin
windows,
because
marvin
would
supply
them
earlier
and
now
I'm
hearing
from
the
pillar
rep
that
if
you
want
casements,
you
can
get
them
faster
than
you
can
get
double
hungs,
because
the
the
molded
jam
liners
are
not
getting
to
their
factory
so
that
they
can
deliver
them.
M
A
D
I
just
noticed
when
I
I
mean
I
keep
going
trying
to
figure
out.
You
know
what
I'm
what
we're
looking
at,
and
I
noticed
that
the
roof
of
the
it
goes
from
stand
it's
from
sheet
metal
to
standing
seam.
So
I'm
just
trying
to
understand
that
too
the
the
roof
material
of
of
the
front
porch.
Is
it
standing
seam
or
is
it
just
like
sheet
metal.
G
I
do
have
one
other
aesthetic
issue
that
I
do
want
to
have
a
discussion
about,
and
that
is
the
one
very
horizontal
window
on
the
side
elevation
which
sometimes
you
see
in
homes
in
this
neighborhood
of
a
different
era
over
a
stairway
or
with
some
wood
paneling,
some
other
friends
around
it.
That
one
looks
I
just.
A
G
Well,
the
cumulative
total
of
all
the
things
that
we've
talked
about
on
this.
I
still
don't
object
to
approving
this
subject,
to
a
very
heavy
administrative
slash,
commissioner,.
J
M
We
wanted,
to
I
mean
not
only
is
simplifying
it
better,
but
if
the
the
rendering
that
came
with
that
first
scheme
is
correct,
you
would
trap
snow
and
have
ice
damning
and
all
sorts
of
problems
up
there.
Unless
you
put
a
big
diagonal,
angled
plane
in
there
called
oddly
enough-
and
I
don't
know
the
history
of
the
term,
but
it's
called
a
cricket,
so
you
need
some
way
to
get
the
water
out
of
the
intersection
between
those
two
roofs.
M
H
Go
ahead,
I'm
sorry
to
say
one
more
thing:
I'm
just
noticing
a
difference
is
the
stair
railing
at
the
front.
Some
of
the
elevations
show
the
horizontal
original
scheme
and
then
now
I'm
seeing
the
vertical.
So
I'm
just
not
sure
what
this
front
railing:
okay,
okay!
What's
the
current
front,
railing's
supposed
to
be
like
it's
vertical.
H
K
H
O
A
A
G
Not
quite
I
just
I'm
wondering
if
we
want
to
make
a
recommendation
to
increase
the
or
rather
decrease
the
spacing
on
the
batten
strips
on
the
gables.
At
least
I'm
not
convinced
the
garage
needs
it,
but
on
the
gable-
and
I
stuart
do
you
think
that
would
be
appropriate
that
if
we're
going
to
have
a
administrative
review
on
this,
that,
while
they
redo
their
drawings,
to
clarify
some
things
that
we
actually
asked
for
the
spacing
on
the
on
the
batten
strips
to
be
reduced
a
little
bit.
A
Think
we'd
just
like
to
see
the
rhythm
of
the
top
to
be
similar
to
not
necessarily
matching
the
width,
but
I'm
saying
is:
is
that
it
to
be?
I
feel,
like
I'm
hearing,
my
fellow
commissioners
say
that
it's
almost
too
wide
that
it
is
just
drawing
your
eye
up
there
and
creating
a
different
proportion
at
the
top.
M
I
mean
my
the
drawings
I
have
does
not
have
anything
showing
the
back
of
the
house,
nor
does
it
have
anything
showing
what
the
sides
of
the
garage
look
like
the
short
sides,
or
actually
the
garages
are
almost
square.
So
it's
the
sides
that
would
have
a
gable
end
based
on
the
way
the
roof
is
shown.
So
it
would
be
nice
to
know
whether
you're
carrying
out
the
same
motif
of
the
house,
which
is
to
change
from
a
horizontal
board
to
a
vertical
board
on
the
garage
as
well.
M
D
A
G
Regarding
548
judson
avenue,
lakeshore
historic
district
case
19
prez0262,
I
move
that
we
approve
substantial
modifications
to
a
previously
approved
certificate
of
appropriateness.
Again,
nineteen
prez-0262.
G
Approval
of
the
modifications
is
subject
to
staff
administrative
and
a
small
subpanel
of
commissioner
review
of
the
window.
Mutton
patterns,
as
well
as
the
window
manufacturer
and
type
the
gable
end
batten
strip
spacing,
which
we've
requested
be
a
little
bit
tighter
than
it
is
right
now,
more
accurate
depiction
of
the
larger
front
door
and
the
consistent,
consistent
depiction
of
the
railing
system
at
applicable
standards.
Construction,
one
through
eight
and
ten
through
sixteen.
J
C
B
Why
don't
we
take
these
one
at
a
time
since
there's
two
of
them?
Did
anyone
have
comments
or
revisions
for
the
minutes
of
march
15th.
K
A
A
J
B
Any
comments
or
revisions
on
the
minutes
of
april
12th.
H
J
B
B
But
I
think
I
think
we're
making
pretty
consistent
good
progress
on
it
and
then
carlos
you
just
want
to
give
a
brief
summary
of
some
of
the
preservation
month.
Activities
the
month
of
may
is
historic
preservation
month,
and
we
do
have
a
number
of
partner
organizations
in
the
city
that
are
doing
things
to
commemorate.
That.
C
Thank
you.
So
the
winston
history
center
had
activities
with
the
house
walk
on
may
1st
and
on
thursday
the
12th
they're
going
to
have
a
speech
by
a
historian
about
the
airline,
so
we're
going
to
post
the
event
in
our
mailing
electronic
mailing,
so
people
can
attend
and
the
wheeler
history
center.
The
wctu
is
open
for
tours
on
two
dates
on
a
thursday
and
sundays.
C
They
now
expect
to
have
a
ceremony
this
coming
saturday,
which
you
will
receive
information
at
the
time
and
unveiling
all
the
markers
we
had
collaboration,
also
from
the
street
department,
where
we
actually
went
out
there
and
drilled
the
sidewalk
and
install
the
markers
people
came
out
and
asked
what
were
we
doing.
We
explained,
and
people
were
very
happy
to
hear
that,
so
it
was
very
nice
to
experience
the
comments
from
the
residents
in
the
area.
C
There
are
six
more
markers
that
will
be
placed
in
the
city
of
evanston,
particularly
in
the
downtown
so
dino,
and
I
will
go
and
check
the
condition
of
the
sidewalks,
because
the
downtown
they
have
some
of
the
brick
pavers.
So
we
had
to
have
a
different
method.
How
we
can
sell
these
markers,
but
I
think
that
oh
and
there
is
a
website,
an
application
where,
once
you
go
in
front
of
the
house,
you
see
the
number
and
there
will
be
an
app.
C
C
Dino
has
been
extraordinarily
doing
this
project
almost
single-handedly,
but
he
definitely
is
very
grateful
that
the
commission
had
its
support
and
then
you
know
we
passed
the
resolution
for
that
project
and
I
think
that's
one
of
the
nicest
projects
I've
been
involved
in
a
long
time
with
some
presidents
actually
are
really
happy
to
participate
and
I'm
very
proud
of
their
accomplishments.
So,
and
I
want
to
thank
the
commission
for
being
part
of
it.
B
Yeah
I'd
like
to
spend
a
little
time
discussing
the
downtown,
as
many
of
you
probably
know,
downtown's
all
across
the
country,
ours
included.
It's
facing
really
significant
uncertainty.
B
B
I
think
a
lot
of
the
decisions
in
the
downtown
in
the
last
decade
have
been
really
reactive.
Instead
of
proactive,
some
of
that
has
to
do
with
the
timing
of
the
last
downtown
plan
that
was
passed
by
the
city,
which
unfortunately
coincided
with
a
massive
recession
in
2008
and
again
really
substantial
changes
in
in
land
use
and
and
marketing
conditions
that
really
never
rebounded
to
the
full
extent.
B
So
I
think
one
we
should
discuss
if,
if
it
seems
like
a
survey
of
the
downtown,
is
warranted.
If
that's
something
that
the
commission
would
like
to
spend
time
on,
and
how
they'd
like
to
see
that
structured,
this
effort,
it
kind
of
supplem,
it
supplements
efforts
that
first
started
by
the
very
first
evanston
preservation
commission
in
the
1970s,
when
they
were
actually
asked
to
somewhat
disregard
downtown
when
they
were
moving
forward
with
a
lot
of
their
designations
partially.
B
B
The
preservation
commission
in
2007
did
somewhat
of
a
reconnaissance
level
survey
in
the
downtown
they
identified
somewhere
around
20
properties
that
they
felt
were
eligible
for
landmark
designation,
but
they
didn't
really
explore
if
they
were
contributing
resources
that
may
not
be
eligible
but
could
be
documented
and
celebrated
in
some
way
they
didn't
explore
cultural
resources
or
significant
histories
or
stories
in
the
downtown.
I
think
including
the
redevelopment
of
downtown
and
that
history.
B
It's
it's
starting
to
be
something
that's
more
at
the
forefront
of
preservation
planning.
Some
of
those
redevelopment
activities
that
happen
in
the
50s,
60s
and
70s
have
some
significance
in
their
own
right
now
and
that's
a
significant
part
of
our
collective
history
as
a
country,
the
redevelopment
that
happened
for
better
or
worse-
and
I
think
that
the
last
thing
I
want
to
say
is
that
this
effort
has
the
potential
to
support
and
kind
of
run
concurrently
with
a
separate
but
related
effort
by
the
economic
development
division.
B
So
there
is
a
lot
of
significance
that
I
think
I
don't
want
to
say
it
was
overlooked,
but
I
don't
think
it
was
the
charge
of
the
commission
in
in
2007
at
the
time
to
kind
of
look
at
and
then
partially
in
2019
and
early
2020,
the
then
planning
manager.
At
the
time
we
identified
about
25
or
so
additional
resources
that
that
we
listed
as
warranty
and
additional
research
and
background
research
in
field
assessment,
which
could
be
part
of
this
effort
as
well,
and
that
was
included
in
the
map
that
I
provided.
B
It
kind
of
shows
the
existing
there's
28
existing
landmarks
and
there's
20
in
2007
that
they
said
were
eligible
and
then
there's
an
additional
20
plus
that
they
they
thought
there
could
be
additional
background.
Research
on.
A
B
So
I
think
that
within
those
at
least
those
three
areas,
but
there's
probably
many
many
more-
you
can
create
what
I
called
character
area
profiles.
It
looks
at
the
significant
architectural
and
built
resources,
as
well
as
the
different
histories,
cultural
significance
and
stories
within
those
areas,
because
they
are
very
different.
Even
though
they're
part
of
the
downtown,
they
do
have
a
very
different
feel
from
each
other.
A
Yeah
and
I
think
these
character
profiles,
if
we
could
kind
of
expand
on
this,
and
and
do
this
survey
together
as
a
commission,
we
could
try
to
help
find
ways
to
incentivize
the
protection
of
these
buildings
without
forcing
them
into
a
landmark
like
either
not
in
that
area
and
a
lot
of
developers,
as
we
all
know,
won't
choose
to
do
that
just
out
of
the
so
I
think
if
we
can
find
ways
to
work
with
the
economic
development,
the
committee
and
work
with
that
director
and
work
with
that
department
in
evanston
and
find
these
ways
to
characterize
them.
A
B
I
think
we
need
we
should
probably
discuss
and
I'd
be
happy
to
bring
something
back
at
the
next
meeting,
but
discuss
how
this
would
be
structured
because
it
is
a
this
would
be
a
big,
a
big
lift.
It's
it's,
not
something
the
commission
could
do
on
its
own.
You
would
need
to
enlist
the
help
of
volunteers
that
happened
in
2015
when
we
did
the
survey
of
landmark
properties
outside
of
districts.
B
There
was
a
significant
contingent
of
volunteers
who
did
a
lot
of
background
research
into
pulled
permits
throughout
the
life
of
a
lot
of
these
buildings
as
well
as
now.
I
think
it
would
be
important
to
look
at
both
kind
of
the
cultural
histories,
as
well
as
some
of
the
redevelopment
histories
to
tell
the
story
of
what
existed
previously.
What
exists
there
now
there's
significant
individuals
that
have
contributed
to
our
downtown
that
their
story
should
also
be
told.
A
Is
there
a
way
to
prioritize
some
of
the
list?
That's
already
been
made
and
we
start
to
target
certain
buildings
that
we
focus
on
these
efforts
on
and
get.
Hopefully,
then,
if
we
can
get
more
traction
and
get
more
involvement,
it
will
help
them
work
through
the
rest
of
the
list.
But
there
are
things
that
are.
There
are
buildings
that
we
feel
that
should
be
that
be
more
prioritized.
B
Even
even
a
nice
start,
as
you
say,
would
be
almost
to
start
with
a
reconnaissance
level
survey
of
the
downtown
and
try
to
identify
areas
that
have
a
different
spirit,
a
different
character.
B
You
could
try
to
map
those
areas
and
then
within
them
try
to
identify
buildings
that
not
only
appear
like
they
have
architectural
significance.
But
I
think
some
of
this
effort
is
also
to
look
at
kind
of
character,
defining
buildings
that
also
facilitate
business
retention
and
small
business
retention,
which
is
typically
older
buildings
that
have
a
lower
rent
structure,
as
well
as
a
smaller
storefront
footprint
for
small
business.
A
I
A
Anyone
be
opposed
if
these
aren't
very
big
areas,
these
character
zones.
Would
anyone
be
opposed
if
we
could
break
out
into
group
like
two
groups
of
two
and
try
to
set
up
a
way
to
do
a
preliminary
survey
of
certain
zones,
and
then
we
could
discuss
as
a
commission-
and
maybe
kate
can
put
together
some
of
the
points
that
we
should
be
looking
at
and
maybe
just
get
a
better
feel
of
what
we're
working
with
as
far
as
how
what
this
would
entail.
D
Could
we
also
could
we
also
possibly
include
that
document
that
included
the
eligible
buildings,
because
some
of
them
are
outside
of
those
of
those
delineated
character
areas
like
I'm
thinking
of
the
building
at
the
corner
of
church
in
davis,
our
church
in
benson?
It's
like
the
last
row
of
historic
buildings,
with
sherman
plaza,
taking
up
the
rest
of
the
block,
like
you
know
it's
across
the
street
from
a
string
of
landmarks,
and
so
it's
just
like
you
know
like
the
character
areas
and
that
list
of.
A
J
So
a
couple
of
questions,
just
as
a
clarification
are
you
kate,
are
you
asking
us
if
we're
going
to
do
it
or
we're
going
to
hire
somebody
to
do
it.
B
That's
something
that
I
think
is
something
that
we
should
discuss,
because
there
is
the
potential
with
our
clg
status,
that
we
could
move
forward
and
try
to
get
clg
grant
funding
for
a
consultant
to
to
help
it
wouldn't
be
necessarily
that
the
consultant
would
do
would
do
all
of
it.
J
J
B
J
I
mean
because
once
you're
out
in
the
field
doing
the
reconnaissance
level
survey,
it's
not
I
mean
if
you
have,
if
you
have
volunteers
and
they
and
they're
what
they're
doing
is
straightforward,
if
you're
using
ipads
whatever
to
do
that,
surveying
it,
it
might
be
a
fairly
straightforward
thing
if
it's
organized
enough
just
to
do
the
whole.
B
I
do
not
so
typically
when
I've
done
this
in
the
in
the
past.
As
a
consultant,
we
would
contract
with
someone
who
had
a
very
specific
software
that
that
you
would
use
they
were
part
of
the
team,
and
they
would
let
you
utilize
that
software
I
do
not
know
if
we
have
the
ability
to
create
something
on
our
own,
that
might
work
for
our
own
purposes
or
if
you
would
need
to
hire
somebody
for
that.
J
Yeah
I
mean
I
used
to
just
create
worksheets
and
like
actual
pen
and
paper
back
in
the
day
and
then
just
show
the
volunteers
how
to
do
it
and
then
it
all
gets
correlated
later
and
added
to
the
gis.
But
in
any
case.
K
A
I
just
don't
want.
I
also
don't
want
to
get
so
large
that
it
becomes
overwhelming
and
we
don't
do
any
of
it,
because
you
know
so
not
that
I
don't
want
to
discount
the
whole
downtown
area,
and
I
completely
agree
sarah
once
you
get
going
like
you
can,
but
I
think
I
want.
I
would
like
to
see
some
momentum
to
get
going
first
and
I
think
on
the
front
end.
A
A
You
know
help,
but
I
think
for
now
we
just
need
to
figure
out
what
do
we
even
want
to
achieve
with
the
effort
and-
and
I
think
that
these
character
zones
are
small
enough-
that
if
we
break
off
and
do
a
little
bit
of
some
education
of
these
areas,
and
what
do
we
want
to
see
out
of
these
areas
and
which
buildings
maybe
do
we
want
to
try
to
really
preserve
with?
Maybe
potentially
incentives.
A
B
Think
a
good
initial
step
based
on
the
conversation
that
would
help
us,
maybe
guide
a
follow-up
conversation
would
be
to
have
groups
of
three
or
four
commissioners
that
do
walk-in
tours
with
with
staff,
and
we
walk
around
and
familiarize
ourselves
with
with
some
of
these
areas,
and
then
we
can
come
back
and
and
discuss
them
and
discuss
a
path
to
move
forward.
If,
if
the
scope
becomes
too
large,
then
I
think
you
know
you
would
have
to
probably
look
at
hiring
somebody
and
getting
grant
funding
for
that.
H
And
and
one
item
just
to
pull
this
out
from
your
your
right
up
cage
is
that
I
think
that
telling
more
of
the
story
and
making
sure
that
this
time
around,
then
we
are
including
more
of
the
significance
that
might
not
just
be
architectural
and
so
making
sure
that
that's
it.
It
jives
with
the
long-range
planning
that
we're
talking
about-
and
you
know
you
had
mentioned
it
in
here
too.
So
I
think
it's
good
to
go
ahead
and
have
have
those
three
areas
as
a
starting
point.
H
But
then
I
do
feel
like
there's
a
layer
of
then
one
of
the
next
steps
would
be
that
research
to
discover
the
story.
If
there
is
one
to
be
had
whether
or
not
there's
integrity
existing
or
not,
or
you
know,
just
how
we're
defining
significance
as
we
go
through
this
making
sure.
I
A
I
think
that
would
be
a
great
first
step
to
just
trying
to
educate
ourselves
with
what
we're
dealing
with
and
then
we
can
always
take
it
bigger.
We
just.
I
think
we
prefer
to
start
with
something,
that's
actually
realistic,
so
we
can
work
on
that
and
then
we
can
circle
back
around
with
everyone.
Okay,
any
other
discussion
items
or
no,
I'm
gonna
ask
for
carl.
If
he
wants
to
make
a
motion
to
adjourn.