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From YouTube: Rules Committee Meeting 10-4-2021
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A
We
have
a
quorum
for
the
monday
october,
4th
2021
city
rules
committee,
we'll
start
with
a
public
comment.
Is
there
anyone
signed
up
for
a
public
comment
director
stow.
A
Thank
you
and
then
we'll
move
on
to
the
to
r1
the
meeting
minutes.
I
have
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes.
C
A
Those
motion
was
made
by
aldermen
usma
seconded
by
council.
Member
fleming.
Can
we
have
a
voice
vote
to
approve
the
minutes?
All
those
in
favor
say
aye
aye
aye,
all
those
opposed
the
eyes
have
it
items
that
brings
us
to
items
for
consideration.
Approval
of
the
2022
city
council
meeting
schedule
that
is
listed
for
action
here
may
have
a
motion
to
entertain
the
2022
city
council
meeting
schedule.
A
E
A
E
A
Seeing
no
further
discussion,
we
have
a
role
called
vote.
A
Okay,
then,
we
have
item
r3,
which
is
a
proposed
standing
committee,
chair
schedule
for
2021-2025.
A
And
apologies:
okay,.
E
Yeah
so
my
question
was
there
were
two
attachments
to
this
item.
They
don't
appear
to
agree
with
each
other,
so
I
am
presuming
it
is
the
second
of
those
attachments,
the
redlined
one.
That
is
what
we
are
approving.
D
Different,
I'm
sorry
good
evening,
kelly,
gandersky,
deputy
city
manager,
so
I
can
explain
the
one
attachment
with
the
red
line
is
what
miss
franchelno
has
put
together
originally
and
then
the
second
excel
sheet
is
what
council,
member
reed
has
put
together
to
try
to
help
explain
further
what
the
he
proposes
the
system
to
be
so
that's
just
for
comparison
from
the
previous
time.
F
I
mean
I
don't
know
what
the
other
folks
are
going
to
say,
I'm
in
an
interest
of
time.
I
know
we
have
a
heavy
agenda.
I
I
can't
speak
for
everyone,
but
I
would
recommend
maybe
you
schedule
a
time
to
sit
down
with
dar
who
also
looks
at
the
schedule
and
between
the
two
of
you.
You
can
come
back
with
something
that
we
can
all
accept.
I
mean
I,
I
don't
have
an
argument
with
where
the
place
is.
C
C
A
Yes,
happy
to
do
that,
so,
with
the
version
that
I
created,
I
aligned
the
shifting
of
committee
chairs
on
trimesters
and
that
creates
even
trimesters
for
the
shifting
of
all
committee
chairs.
It,
in
fact,
would
originally
we
at
the
last
meeting
adopted
that
I
would
have
that,
for
example,
for
this
committee.
Originally,
this
chairmanship
would
be
six
months.
This
reduces
it
to
four
months
on
or
I'm
sorry
yeah
to
four
months.
A
Each
each
try
it's
on
a
trimester,
so
there's
three
chairmen:
the
chairmanship
would
change
three
times
per
year
and
that
would
create
a
period
with
four
months
and
there's
no,
because
it
is
a
line
there.
There
is
no
conflict
in
the
red
line
version.
There
still
exists
a
few
conflicts
where
folks
would
be
chair
of
two
standing
committees.
At
the
same
time,.
E
G
Okay,
so
I
had
two
questions
at
first.
I
think
you
just
answered
so
this
apparent
overlap
in
the
schedule
you've
presented
is
because
essentially
the
end.
The
end
months
of
each
of
these
columns
is
sort
of
misnamed
right
where
it
says
june
through
october.
It
should
really
say
june
through
september,
where
it
says
october,
through
february,
to
say
october,
through
january
and
so
forth.
A
Sure
it
just
the
chairmanship
would
switch
at
the
first
meeting
of
the
of
of
whatever
month.
G
Okay
and
not
to
be
you
know,
self-interested
here,
but
I
I
think
I'm
noticing
that
one
difference
between
ms
franchelle.
A
I'm
sorry
you're
going
to
say
that
the
difference
is
that
you
are
not
chair
of
rules
committee,
correct,
and
the
reason
that
is,
and
thank
you
for
bringing
that
up
is
because
referrals
committee
is
a
standing
committee
as
we
have
created
it,
and
you
are
the
chair
of
the
referrals
committee,
thereby
you
could
not
be
chair.
Fools.
H
Unless
I'm
misunderstanding
this,
I
thought
the
what
we
were
trying
to
achieve
is
to
make
sure
that
there
were
that
that
no
council
member
served
or
was
was
chair
for
two
committees.
At
the
same
time,
and
so
my
question
is-
and
I
went
over
this
before
the
meeting-
and
I
thought
that
in
council
member
reed,
chair
reid's
version
that
that
was
achieved
and
unless
in
reviewing
this,
my
colleagues
are
saying
it
is
not.
H
You
know,
I'm
ready
to
to
make
a
motion
to
pass
fastest,
because
to
me
this
was
a
pretty
straightforward
assignment
in
terms
of
what
we
were
trying
to
achieve
and
I
think
it's
been
met
unless
it
hasn't.
So,
as
I've
said
before
this
is
not
this
shouldn't.
Be
that
controversial.
H
It's
like
you
know,
I
don't
think
there's
and
as
far
as,
unless
I'm
missing
something
I
don't
everybody
that
you
know
will
get
an
opportunity
to
serve,
and
I
don't
see
any,
I
don't
see
any
dates
where
someone
would
be
chair
of
more
than
one
one
standing
committee.
So
I'm
ready
to
move
this
unless
we
have
any
objections.
C
My
suggestion
is:
if
we
could
just
change
the
labeling
and
and
it's
you
know
so
it
says
if
you're
I
understand
you're,
you
know
you
would
be
done
or
you
would.
I
would
start
my
committee
chair,
say
in
october
right
so
then
it
should
say
june
to
june
through
september.
So
if
you
could
just
change
that
for
clarity,
yeah.
C
A
E
Would
need
to
be
exercised
prior
to
the
meeting
itself
right
because
the
chair
have
the
chair
of
a
committee
meeting
having
a
role
in
putting
together
that
agenda,
we'll
have,
to
you
know,
assume
the
duties
of
a
chair
prior
to
the
meeting.
So
let's
just
I
mean
we're
just
nitpicking
the
details
here,
but
I
think
we're
all
in
agreement
with
the
general
concept.
E
E
Right
but
if
you're
chairing
a
meeting
tomorrow,
your
work
on
that
meeting
as
chair,
you
know,
extends
a
week
or
two
before
that
meeting
to
get
the
agenda.
Maybe.
A
So
I
think,
a
motion
to
add
into
this
language
the
the
chairmanship
shall
to
make
the
amendment
that
alderman
fleming
is
to.
A
And
we
can
do
that
so
if,
if
that
can
be
made
into
a
motion.
C
A
C
E
A
C
E
H
E
All
right
we
did,
we
did
talk
about
that,
and
so
I
think
the
additional
language
that
we
see
in
our
packet
here
is
that
clause
with
guidance
regarding
priority.
E
You
know
to
indicate
that
the
referrals
committee,
you
know,
does
have
a
role
to
play
in
triage
of
the
referrals
that
it
receives.
That,
I
believe,
was
the
intent
of
the
rules
committee
in
creating
the
referrals
committee
was
to
allow
them
that
trump
that
triage
and
so
adding
that
language
hopefully
addresses
that
that
need.
A
Any
further
discussion
I
I
will
say
that
one
just
since
we're
giving
direction
on
clarifying
the
rules.
I
believe
that
the
we
have
to
ensure
that
staff
referrals
are
certainly
going
through
the
referrals
committee.
A
I
I
do
not
know
if
the
language
no
referral
shall
appear
on
agenda
unless
it
hit,
and
until
it
has
been
referred
by
the
referrals
committee.
I
actually
don't
know
if
that
helps
solve
the
issue.
If
anything,
I
think
that
may.
G
G
As
I
see
it
in
its
young
life,
the
referrals
committee
has
made
a
modest
amount
of
progress
toward
at
a
bare
minimum,
making
more
transparent
the
process
by
which
referrals
make
it
from
a
city
council
member's
spoken
direction
or
or
email
to
a
committee
agenda,
and
I
think
also
making
that
somewhat
more
systematic.
G
I
think
we
have
a
long
way
to
go
frankly,
and
when
I
say
we
I
don't
mean
exclusively
the
referrals
committee,
I
think
we
as
a
body
have
a
long
way
to
go
to
get
to
the
place
where
we
have
a
smooth,
efficient
and
well-functioning
legislative
process.
Mr
chair,
I
think
you
alluded
to
one
of
the
critical
areas.
That
is
an
area
that
needs
improvement,
which
is
the
dichotomy
between
staff,
initiated
ideas
and
elected
official
initiated
referrals.
G
I
think
there's
there's
plenty
of
improvement
that
needs
to
happen
there
to
to
ensure
that
there
isn't
kind
of
a
a
fast
lane
available
only
to
people
who
were
not
elected
by
the
public.
So
I
think
that's
that's
one
area
that
progress
needs
to
be
made.
Another
area
that
progress
needs
to
be
made
is.
G
I
would
say
reaction
to
the
referrals
committee's
decisions
so
items
that
get
referred
if
the
items
that
get
referred,
don't
wind
up
a
on
agendas
and
then
be
addressed
constructively
and
effectively.
Once
they
get
on
that
agenda,
then
the
whole
thing
begins
to
fall
apart
and
I
think
both
of
those
haves
need
improvement.
Otherwise,
we've
got
to
do
better
at
getting
things
on
the
agenda.
Once
the
referrals
committee
makes
a
clear
pass
that
that
happened,
and
then,
second
of
all,
when
things
get
on
the
agenda,
they
actually
have
to
get
addressed.
G
Not
just
have
the
agenda
item
appear
for
the
sake
of
formality
and
then
and
then
and
then
sort
of
declare,
victory
and
go
home
without
having
addressed
the
underlying
problem
that
triggered
the
referral.
So
those
are
things
that
are
very
much
on
my
mind
and
the
referrals
committee's
meeting
this
thursday
morning
and
that's
those
are
items
that
I'm
that
that
are
items
that
I
plan
to
initiate
some
discussion
about
at
that
meeting.
G
I
think
the
the
underlying
sentence
in
the
back
half
of
9.7
here
in
the
packet
to
me
is
a
part
of
getting
us
to
having
a
well-functioning,
transparent
legislative
process
without
kind
of
end-arounds
and
alternate
alternate
paths
and
just
as
I
think,
having
a
system
where
okay,
new
ideas
go
through
the
referrals
committee.
Unless
they
come
from
certain
staff
members,
in
which
case
they
go
around
it,
just
as
that
is,
is
a
step
backwards
from
the
point
of
view
of
having
an
equitable
and
transparent
system.
G
I
think
the
same
is
true
that
if
there's
a
mechanism
by
which
committee
chairs
can
just
kind
of
ignore
the
referrals
committee
and
put
something
else
on
so
I
I
would
I
I
take
seriously
and
agree
with
your
concerns
about
the
work
that
remains
to
be
done.
But
as
far
as
I'm
concerned,
the
end
state
that
we
want
to
get
to
would
include
this
proposed
sentence
in
9.7.
E
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
you
know
blocking
ourselves
into
a
corner
and,
among
other
things,
we
need
to
allow
for
automatic
items
that
are
recurring
on
the
agenda
to
be
considered
without
having
to
go
through
the
referrals
committee,
like
the
bills
list,
for
example,
like
no
need
for
the
committee
referrals
committee
to
weigh
in
on
that
every
single
time
so
yeah.
I
think
we
are
kind
of
achieving
consensus
on
what
the
intent
of
the
rules
committee
is
and
still
struggling
with,
how
to
exactly
word
stuff.
G
Really
quickly,
I
just
want
to
stretch
totally
agree.
I
don't
think
anybody
disagrees
the
where
to
draw
the
line
is
the
is
the
tricky
part
of
this,
but
I
would
say
the
great
majority
of
staff
initiated
items
should
not
go
through
the
referrals
committee.
They
just
follow
the
operation
of
government.
H
I
just
want
some
clarification.
The
way
I
understand
I
don't
know
if
this
is
in
council
rules
or
code,
but
a
chair
still
has
the
authority
unilaterally
place
an
item
on
an
agenda
that
they're
the
chair
of
over.
You
know
that
committee
is
that
everyone's
understand.
I
just
want
to
be
be
clear
on
that.
H
H
So
then
do
we
need
to
remove
or
amend
something
else,
because
I
don't
know
where
it
appears.
Maybe
council
you
can
help,
but
it's
either
in
our
rules
or
our
quote.
H
G
A
But
you
do
get
have
the
ability,
just
as
a
point
of
information,
to
place
an
item
on
the
agenda,
so
a
brand
new
item
that
hasn't
been
considered.
Yet
it's
typically
a
special
order
of
business.
But
certainly
the
mayor
has
that
ability
and
I'm
sorry
for
that
point
of
water
council
member
breathe
away.
Did
you
turn
your
light
off
intentionally
or.
C
I
wasn't,
I
thought
we
were
wrapping
so
to
to
council
member
burns
point
I
do
remember.
I
thought
I
remembered
that
rule
as
well
and
it
might
have
just
been
like
standard
operating
procedures
and
not
necessarily
a
rule,
because
that's
definitely
how
there's
definitely
part
of
the
reason
I
supported
the
referrals
committee
because
I
felt
like
I
could
not
keep
track
of
where
things
were,
I'm
not
going
to
try
to
add
it
in
today.
C
C
I
mean
we
weren't
trying
to
make
a
bottleneck,
but,
as
you
all
know,
because
I've
called
many
of
you,
we
try
to
get
things
to
the
committee
chairs
and
say:
hey
put
this
on
the
agenda
because
we
obviously
don't
have
control
over
the
agenda
and
that's
just
not
happened.
We've
talked
to
ms
gandersky
as
she
steps
into
the
interim
city
manager's
role
about
how
the
city
manager's
office
can
help
us
make
sure
things
get
out
of
the
committee
into
the
agenda,
because
we
definitely
I
mean
now.
C
We
have
a
spreadsheet
of
things
that
we
think
should
have
been
talked
about
months
ago.
So
again,
I
don't
want
to
put
that.
I
don't
even
have
the
language
to
put
that
into
this
code,
but
it's
definitely
an
issue
where
we're
gonna
have
to
all
work
together,
because
I
think
we've
operated
in
this
kind
of
gatekeepers.
At
least
my
experience
has
been
this
kind
of
gatekeeper's
role
for
a
long
time
and
it
doesn't
call
it
doesn't
give
each
council
member
in
each
ward
kind
of
voice
to
move
the
issues
that
they
think
are
important.
I
Well,
I
think
what
council
member
burns
is
describing
is
the
way
we
used
to
do
things
before
we
had
a
referrals
committee
and
then-
and
so
then
I
yeah
the
the
committee
chair.
Did
you
know
if
you
had
an
item
that
you
wanted
to
be
on
an
agenda?
I
You
would
talk
to
the
committee
chair
and
the
committee
chair
would
say:
oh
yeah,
fine,
we
can
talk
about
that
at
the
next
meeting
and
that's
kind
of
it
was
a
sort
of
a
very
informal
process
before
the
new
council
took
office,
and
then
we
realized
there
were
so
many
referrals
or
so
many
items
being
suggested
that
we
decided
we
needed
to
have
a
referrals
committee.
So
now
I
think
we
have
this
more
formalized
process
and
the
the
committee
chair
just
does
still
try
to
manage
the
agenda.
I
So
there
aren't
too
many
things
on
the
agenda
for
any
one
meeting,
so
the
the
role
of
the
chair
is
still
pretty
important,
but
it's,
but
in
terms
of
new
issues
getting
onto
the
agenda,
I
think
the
idea
behind
the
referrals
committee
is
that
those
things
would
go.
First
to
the
referrals
committee.
A
May
ask
a
point
of
information
and
then
council,
member
kelly,
then
birth
weight,
plenty
of
information
to
well.
First,
I
guess
who
mayor
bis?
Was
this
your
language
or
whose
language
who
developed
this
language,
council
member
nussmo
developed
this
language.
A
Okay,
and
if
I
may
ask
my
real
point
of
information,
was
to
understand
when
it
says
until
it
has
been
referred
by
the
referrals
committee
when
it
says
referred,
I've
noticed
that
the
referrals
committee
has
kind
of
a
tiered
system,
one
which
is
where
they
do.
The
committee
does
what
it
was
supposed
to
do,
which
is
decide
what
committee
an
item
goes
to
and
it's
dispositioned
somewhat,
but
then
there's
also
a
you
know,
kind
of
green
light
that
that
is
done.
So
does
this
referred
by?
A
G
Great
question-
and
you
know
if
I
think
one
should
also
make
probably
a
somewhat
harsher
critique
of
the
referrals
committee
and
observed
that
the
referrals
committee
isn't
voting
on
any
of
this
stuff.
We're
just
kind
of
talking
it
through
and
putting
stuff
in
a
spreadsheet.
G
K
And
so
sort
of
the
inverse
of
no
item
shall
be
referred
unless
referred
by
the
referral
committee,
the
inverse
of
that
that
you
spoke
to
daniel
a
little
bit
about
items
being
referred,
but
not
making
it
onto
the
agenda
and
the
frustrations
with
that
that
you
plan
to
discuss
right
in
in
the
referral
committee.
K
G
I
mean
I
wouldn't
want
to
get
ahead
of
the
other
two
members.
I
feel
like
I'm
talking
a
lot
as
it
is,
and
I
think
council
member
fleming
is
right
that
a
lot
of
this
should
be
collaborative
rather
than
you
know,
having
a
big
camera
somewhere,
but
I
think
if
we
can't
get
to
a
place
where
it's
working
to
council
satisfaction
in
a
collaborative
way,
then
we
may
request
a
rule
change
that
gives
the
referrals
committee
the
binding
authority
to
put
something
on
an
agenda.
I
would
rather
not
go
there.
F
The
thank
you
chair
and
I
guess
my
personal
opinion.
The
referrals
committee
are
big
ideas
that
we
don't
have
a
staff
memo
accompany,
and
I
supported
it
because
I
felt
that
the
people
who
were
going
to
be
on
this
were
going
to
whomever
council
members
knew
old.
If
you
had
a
concept
that
you
would
be
able
to
help
steer
them
in
the
right
direction,
just
in
terms
of
the
right
committee,
but,
more
importantly,
what
I
feel
is
missing
from
a
good
referral.
F
F
F
I
would
love
to
now
see
that
we're
in
our
fourth
or
fifth
month
serving
together
that
there
is
a
little
more
effort
in
speaking
to
our
staff
and
former
council
members
before
it
comes
to
city
council,
and
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
hoping
that
the
referral
committee
will
do.
I
also
think
it's
a-
and
I
can't
stress
enough
having
the
conversation
with
our
staff
and
making
sure
that
there's
some
support
there
before
things
come
before
this
body.
A
Earlier,
thank
you
point
of
information
to
your
point
there,
council,
member
burns.
The
underlying
language
is,
is
new
language.
C
So
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
that
we
adjust
this
language
so
that
there
is
no
confusion,
but
I
just
have
to,
and
it
has
been
on
the
referrals
committee.
It
is
not
at
all
my
interest,
I
mean
I
think
eleanor's
suggestion
was
even
different
than
mine.
I
only
wanted
to
be.
You
know.
Do
the
committee,
because
I've
sat
up
here
for
four
years
and
made
referrals
that
have
gone
nowhere
and.
C
Have
made
referrals
that
have
gone
places
and
every
time
I
asked
it
was
like
oh
it's
coming,
but
I
did
not
know
where
it
was,
and
so
that
was
my
personal
experience
and
I
experienced.
I
did
not
want
new
council
members
to
have
sitting
up
here.
That
was
my
interest
for
the
referrals
committee
in
terms
of
what
people
refer.
I
assume
people
are
referring
things
that
have
interest
to
them
to
their
community.
Whatever
I'm,
not.
My
role
is
not
to
manage
and
ask
people
why
they're
referring
these
things?
C
I
understand
your
point
in
terms
of
time,
but
that
is
part
of
what
we're
trying
to
do
on
the
referrals
committee.
So
if
we
get
a
referral,
that's
not
clear.
We
then
go
back
to
the
counselor
and
say:
can
you
provide
some
clarity
here?
I've
done
this
several
times
with
several
council
members,
not
because
I'm
trying
to
be
the
gatekeeper,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
when
it
gets
on
the
agenda
that
it's
clear
what
the
staff
needs
to
do.
It's
clear
what
the
council
member
is
looking
for,
so
we
can
expedite
these
meetings.
C
J
C
Make
a
suggestion
that
this
language
about
no
referral
show
up
here
on
the
agenda
and
we
can
add
something
to
the
effect
of
you
know,
except
for
regular
city
business
bills
list.
You
know
x
and
z.
However,
as
miss
anderson
moves
forward
in
her
role,
I
would
like
even
to
see
those
things
balanced.
I
mean.
C
Obviously,
some
things
have
to
go
on
the
agenda
by
date,
certain
to
get
paid
for,
but
some
do
not
and
if
those
items
continue
to
still
take
up
most
of
the
agenda
time,
we
have
less
space
for
the
items
that
council
members
have
referred
up
and
if
you
look
at
our
spreadsheet,
I
think
everything
on
there
is
green
and
I've
talked
to
several
committee
members
several
times
about
getting
things
on
the
agenda
and
they
still
are
not.
There.
C
A
So
is
there
appetite
from
this
committee
to
formally
send
this
to
council?
In
that
case,
I
think
it
would
make
sense
to
to
vote
on
this
and
sent
re.
Send
it
forward
to
counsel
for
the
next
regular
meeting.
Well,.
C
A
Only
a
discussion,
even
if
it's
for
discussion
nothing
in
oma,
prohibits
us
from
the
the
threshold
is
just
that
it's
listed,
and
so
we
can
make
it
for
a
discussion
or
for
action
or
whatever
we
choose.
A
D
May
make
a
suggestion
we're
coming
back
here
to
rules
in
october
18th?
Yes,
why
don't
we
staff
law
craft,
something
based
on
your
feedback
to
bring
back
for
action
at
the
next
rules
committee
meeting
and
that
way,
we'd
all
be
clear
at
what's
going
forward,
because
I'm
just
I'm
hearing
a
couple
different
things.
I
think
I've
got
it,
but
we
can
work
behind
the
scenes
with
everybody
to
make
sure
we
get
the
language
right.
A
I
would,
if
I
may
I'd
prefer
that
it
go
that
is
we
have
a
tight
schedule
on
that
meeting
and
we're
getting
to
a
tight
schedule
here
as
well.
It's
only
an
hour
that
we'll
have,
and
that
already
has
a
we'll-
have
a
fairly
full
agenda.
So
if
I
don't
think,
there's
much
confusion,
I
think
I
mean
there
is
some
disagreement,
but
that's
not
we're
not
here.
To
necessarily
have
everyone
agree.
A
I
think
that
I
hear
what
seems
like
a
considerable
amount
of
support
to
move
forward
with,
although
I
personally
disagree
with
it
move
forward
with
the
language
that
says,
referrals
shall
only
appear
on
an
agenda.
You
know
meeting
the
threshold,
that's
underlined,
I
hear
council
member
fleming
has
an
amendment
to
make
and-
and
I
think
it
could
move
on
forward
to
council.
But
of
course
that's
up
to
this
committee
mayor
bess.
A
Sure
you
can,
you
can
motion
your
amendment
and
then
we
can
motion
to
send
to
the
council.
C
Okay,
so
I
make
a
motion
that
we
amend
the
language
as
written
in
the
packet
instead
of
saying
no
referral
shall
appear
on
the
agenda
unless
and
until
it
has
been
referred
by
referrals
committee.
I
would
add
in
there
no
language-
and
this
is
me-
going
off
the
fly,
maybe
in
parentheses,
aside
from
you,
know
normal
operations,
business
of
the
city
and
I'm
being
very
open
with
my
words
here,
understanding
the
budget
and
such
like
that
and
then
continue
the
rest
of
the
sentence.
E
A
All
those
opposed
any
abstentions,
all
right
that
amendment
passes.
A
I
also
and
to
to
be-
maybe
I
should
have
said
this
before,
but
to
be
clear
what,
when
I
consider
the
regular
business
of
the
city,
it
is
pretty
strictly
the
bills
list,
you
know
approving
staff
salaries
at
a
regular
basis
and
the
other
bills
related.
There
are
a
lot
of
items
that
you
know
get
on
the
agenda
that
are
expenditures
that
aren't
that
are,
for
example,
we
had
the
crater
cradle
to
career
appear
on
the
agenda
last
time,
which
certainly
an
important
function
certainly
needs
to
happen.
C
I
mean
I,
I
think
something
that's
just
up
for
an
expense.
That's
a
vote.
I
mean
I'm,
you
know.
If
we
go
to
a
referrals
committee
and
the
three
of
us
say
we
don't
like
create
a
career,
it
doesn't
mean
that
the
other
six
people
don't
want
to
have
an
opportunity
to
vote
on
it
and
they
like
it
right
and
essentially
like
it,
but
want
to
support
it.
So
I
usually
vote
no
to
cradle
career
every
year
and
so
on
the
referrals
committee.
C
A
Okay,
thank
you,
council
member
ravel,.
I
Right-
and
I
would
just
probably
just
paraphrase-
maybe
what
councilmember
fleming
just
said-
I
mean
every
year
we
get
a
proposal
for
funding
for
cradle
to
career,
so
I
would
hate
to
have
routine
items,
even
though
that's
not
technically
the
business
of
the
city
have
to
go
to
referrals.
So
there's
just
there's
a
lot.
That's
on
our
agenda
that
I
would
hope,
could
just
automatically
keep
coming
onto
the
agenda
without
going
to
referrals,
otherwise
we'll
have
to
meet
every
month.
Every
week.
A
Okay
and
then
we'll
start
to
wrap
up
conversation
on
this
manager.
Ganderski.
D
Yeah
I'll
just
add
to
that
that
we
have
contract
renewals
that
come
due
every
year
that
we
have
to
consider
and
by
operation
of
ordnance.
As
we
know,
we've
discussed
this
before
some
things
are
required
to
go
right
to
city
council.
So
I
just
wanted
to
add
those
things
in
as
well.
A
So
maybe
a
as
this
moves
forward,
if
we
vote
to
move
this
forward
to
council
just
a
list
of
what
those
you
know,
broad
categories
may
be,
you
know
bill's
list
and
maybe
a
kind
of
sampling
of
what
are
some
of
these
regular
expenditures.
And
then
our
law
department
has
a
statement.
Go
ahead.
J
Thank
you,
chair
reed
members
of
the
rules
committee
alex
ruggy
assistant
city
attorney.
I
know
that
we're
considering
or
you're
you
are
all
considering
taking
this
to
the
next
city
council
as
a
law
staff.
Here
at
the
meeting,
I
am
just
a
little
bit
confused
still
on
the
route
we're
taking.
J
So
I
understand
the
the
amendment
that
was
made,
but
now
I
feel
like
we're
it's
a
little
unclear
of
what
business
of
the
city
is
going
to
mean,
but
just
a
suggestion
I
did
hear
you
say
that
perhaps
a
rule
or
the
referrals
committee
should
talk
about
policy
decisions,
so
it
would
be.
Maybe
my
suggestion
to
see.
If
you
know
business
of
the
city
stays
the
way
it
is
and
then
policy
it
goes
to
the
referrals
committee.
J
A
I
think
that's
actually
a
really
good
suggestion
so
and
I
think
what
you'd
highlighted
councilmember
flowing
was
good.
So
maybe
we
do
want
to
change
that
language
too.
I
mean
that
is
pretty
much.
What
we're
talking
about.
If
there's
a
policy
change,
I
mean
some
expenditures
could
could
fall
into
that
category.
I
mean
you
know
two
million
dollar
expenditure
for
something
that
you
know
isn't
necessary
is
in
essence,
policy.
E
A
C
A
Okay,
then,
we
will
wrap
discussion
on
that
to
continue
moving
forward
with
our
agenda.
I'm.
G
G
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
wanted
to
hold
this.
I
didn't
want
to
poison
the
vote
if
it
was
going
to
happen,
but
I
just
I
wanted
to
share.
I
I
think
you're
you're
completely
right
that
the
open
meetings
act
doesn't
constrain
us
from
voting.
Even
if
the
item
is
listed
on
the
agendas
being
for
discussion,
but
just
respectfully,
I
don't
think
it's
a
great
transparency
move
to
tell
the
public.
This
is
for
discussion
and
then
go
and
take
a
binding
vote.
G
So
I
would
just
like
to
request
that
we
do
our
best
to
avoid
that
in
the
future,
because
it
could
come
off
as
a
bit
of
a
bait
and
switch
to
remember
the
public.
Who
cares
about
the
issue
but
doesn't
show
up
today
because
they
know
they
assume
that
for
discussion
means
there
won't
be
a
vote.
A
Certainly,
certainly,
all
right
and
just
I'm
sorry
to
that
point.
We
we
have
in
a
number
of
cases,
had
things
for
discussion
because
it
would
be
going
up
to
the
it's
not
like.
It
appeared
on
a
council
agenda
for
discussion
and
then
okay
moving
on
to
item
r5
discussion.
A
Well,
let's,
if
yeah,
let's
r5
discussion
regarding
the
potential
conflict
between
city
council
rules,
5.6.2
and
5.6.5
staff
recommends
removal
of
the
finance
and
budget
committee
from
rules
of
city
council
and
pass
an
ordinance
creating
a
finance
and
budget
committee
for,
and
that
is
for
discussion.
Is
there
a
motion
so
moved
by
alderman
birth
weight
seconded
by.
G
A
Mayor
biss,
who
I
I
will
start
this
off
so
unless
maybe
best
so
there
seems
to
be
a
conflict
in
who
selects
the
chair
for
the
finance
and
budget
committee,
and
the
conflict
appears
because
we
list
the
finance
and
budget
committee.
As
a
special
committee
of
the
council
and
but
a
special
committee
is
a
particular
term.
A
special
committee
would
be
a
short-term
committee
that
has
a
purpose
and
will
disband
at
a
certain
point.
A
That
is
not
in
our
rules,
the
definition
of
special
committee,
but
our
rules
say
when
our
rules
are
silent,
we
defer
to
robber
tools,
and
so
that
is
in
robert's
rules
that
definition
of
a
special
committee,
and
so,
by
definition,
the
finance
and
budget
committee,
I
believe,
is
not
a
special
committee.
A
And
so
I
think
that
if
we
adopt
an
ordinance
creating
this
committee
or
if
we
just
say
that
it's
not
a
special
committee
either
one
of
those
solves
the
conflict
and
the
rules
committee
can
appoint
the
chair
or
if
we
specifically
want
the
mayor
to
appoint
the
chair,
I
mean
that
could
be
put
into
the
ordinance.
So.
E
A
And
and
the
committee,
the
economic
development
and
committee
chair
is
appointed
by
rules.
In
fact
that
was
we
adopted
that
earlier
that
didn't
come
up
in
the
amen
in
the
amendment
to
the
standing
committee
chair
schedule
earlier,
because
that
doesn't
create
a
conflict.
So
you
know
you
could
be
chair
of
economic
development.
But
to
that
point
I
do
think
we
also
have
to
look
at.
A
There
are
a
number
of
other
committees
that
we
have
not
made
appointments
for,
and
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
that
as
far
as
chairs
and
other
positions
all
right.
Any
further
discussion
on
the
conflict
of
rules,
I
don't
seeing
none
we'll
move
on
to
item
r6,
a
discussion
of
the
selection
of
I'm
sorry
discussion,
section,
one
1-8-1
of
the
city
code
concerning
the
hiring
or
removal
of
the
city
manager.
E
A
A
second
okay
moved
by
council
member
kelly
seconded
by
mayor
biss.
I
would
ask
councilmember
burns
if
you're
able
to
join
us
all
right,
councilmember
kelly
or
does
anyone
want
to?
I
can
start
this
off,
but
if
anyone
else
happy
to
start
it
all
right.
So
this
is
a
referral
that
I
made
months
ago
far
before
mrs
kandersky
was
a
city
manager.
I
think
it's
a
matter
of
just
good
public
policy
that
we
have.
A
We
maintain
what
was
the
threshold
for
you
know
higher
for
removal
of
a
city
manager
which
would
be
a
vote
of
six
members
of
the
corporate
authority.
So
it
would
be
six
members,
including
the
mayor.
C
That's,
I
think,
that's
fine.
The
only
thing
I
would
say
is,
I
think,
the
right
now
when
I
came
in
here
there
was
one
number
for
hiring
and
one
number
for
removal.
So
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
both
those
numbers
remain
the
same
whenever
we
change
it
to.
A
I
think
that,
and
at
least
in
my
mind
was
intentional
that
I
mean,
but
certainly
you
know,
the
body
can
do
it
once,
but
in
my
mind
the
threshold
for
hiring,
I
think,
should
be
a
bit
higher.
There
should
be
a
bit
more.
A
Unanimity-
that's
not
the
word
I'm
looking
for,
but
there
should
be
more
consensus
with
hiring
a
city
manager
and
then,
if
a
city
manager
is
in
a
position
and
is
not
pleasing
the
majority
of
the
council,
then
I
think
more
of
a
simple
majority
to
remove
them
makes
sense,
including
the
mayor,
but
all.
I
Well,
I
think
both
both
decisions,
the
hiring
of
the
city
manager
and
removing
the
city
manager,
are
both
very
important
consequential
actions
and
I
think
they
both
of
them
both
of
those
actions,
require
a
larger
than
normal
vote.
It's
and
that
signals
to
the
community
that
we
are
taking
a
really
big
step
in
either
either
of
those
cases.
So.
I
I
I
did
a
little
bit
of
google
googling
around
to
see
if
I
could
see
if
there
were
any
best
practices
about
this,
and
basically
the
only
the
main
thing
I
found
was
that
one
argument
for
having
a
super
majority
vote
on
some
issues
is
that
it
does
encourage
a
greater
it,
encourages
more
deliberation
and
compromise,
and-
and
I
so
I
really
do-
think-
that
on
both
of
those
votes
would
be
very
serious
votes.
And
I
would
I
would
like
us
to
maintain
the
super
majority.
A
A
further
discussion,
so
I
think
there
should
be
a
motion
to
move
this
forward
or
not
to
the
next
to
move
this
forward
on
rules.
So
is
there
a
motion
in
either
direction.
A
F
So
again,
we're
not
voting
it's
a
point
of
clarification.
Then,
let's
all
weigh
in
we
are
in
the
middle
of
a
city
manager
search
that
has
not
gone
public.
F
And
if
anyone
was
to
watch
how
long
our
meetings
go,
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
very
challenging
search.
Just
given
all
the
factors
that
our
town
is
in
and
I
love
our
city.
I
think
that's
important
to
discuss
to
move
this
before
a
search.
I
would
have
to
ask
any
one
of
us
if
we
were
in
the
role
of
a
city
manager,
would
you
apply
to
a
position?
That's
limiting
the
number
of
votes.
F
I
mean
if
you're
going
to
move
from
out
of
state
anywhere
else,
relocate
your
family
and
make
a
commitment
to
be
here.
I
would
not,
under
any
circumstances
touch
this
town
if
that
number
was
reduced
right
before
we
went
out
for
a
search.
I
think
it's
crazy,
so
I'm
not
going
to
support
it
and
I
hope
it
dies
right
here
and
if
anyone
else
hasn't
weighed
in
I'd
like
to
hear
what
you
have
to
say,
so
we
can
move
forward
with
our
agenda.
Thank
you.
A
Just
a
point
of
information
that
that
number
was
in
place
when
manager,
bob
quicks
and
just
about
every
san
diego
city
manager
before
took
office
council
member
kelly,
then
newsman
and.
K
E
Yeah,
I
think
it's
worth
something
that
the
threshold
used
to
be
six
out
of
ten,
but
I
also
think
it's
that
council
member
braithwaite
does
make
a
point
that
the
threshold
is
currently
seven
out
of
ten
and
while
at
another
point
in
time
it
might
be
useful
to
have
this
discussion.
E
I
think
what
we
need
to
be
focused
on
as
a
council
is,
you
know,
filling
on
a
permanent
basis,
the
city
manager's
seat
and
doing
everything
we
can
to
make
sure
we've
got
the
most
highly
qualified
candidate,
the
candidates
that
are
interested
in
that
seat.
So
we
can
pick
the
right
person
for
evanston,
so
I
am
inclined
to
keep
it
at
7
out
of
10
for
now
and.
G
G
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
just
a
few
quick
things.
First
of
all,
just
in
full
transparency,
I
shared
with
you
quite
some
time
ago
that
I
would
support
this
and
I
intend
to
keep
that
commitment.
Of
course,
the
reason
I
said
that
is
very
simple.
I
think
super
majority
thresholds
tend
to
be
unwise.
I
you
know
would
like
us
to
have
a
democracy
and
a
livable
planet
and
there's
a
super
majority
requirement
in
the
u.s
senate.
G
That's
making
both
of
those
things
seem
impossible,
and
so
I,
as
general
rule,
I
think
I
think
majority
majority
rule
is
the
way
to
go.
I
I
do
have
a
lot
of
sympathy,
just
in
all
candor
for
the
point
made
by
councilmember
braithwaite
and
echoed
by
councilmember
nussma.
Regarding
the
timing,
and
I
want
to
echo
the
thing
I
said
before
I
am.
I
am
uneasy
voting
on
something.
E
G
Significant,
where,
with
the
timing
being
so
significant
on
an
agenda
where
it
said
where
it
was
posted
for
discussion-
and
I
mean
I'm
not
trying
to
be
a
pediatric
monster
here
but
like
if
you
even
look
at
the
packet,
the
short
packet
that
we
have
here,
the
the
subject
is
discussion
of
the
city
code
concerning
removal,
removal,
the
city
manager.
G
But
the
summary
refers
to
referral
to
change
the
number
of
votes
required
to
hire
or
remove
the
city
manager,
which
is
actually
what
I
thought
we
were
going
to
be
discussing
today,
because
that's
what
was
in
the
packet.
In
light
of
all
that,
I
would
really
ask
that
we
not
take
a
binding
vote
tonight.
G
A
So
if
I
respond.
G
A
Certainly,
I
I
hear
what
you're
saying,
but
this
would
be
a
vote
to
move
it
forward.
Four
rules
not
to
move
it
forward
to
council
to
have
you.
E
A
A
Right,
it
would
be
voting
essentially
to
move
it
forward
for
action
to
the
next
rules
committee
and
then
on
to
council
and.
G
And
then
is
that
even
a
thing
we
can
do
in
the
rules.
C
Usually,
what
happens,
I
think,
is
that
the
committee
chair
kind
of
fills
the
room
right.
I
mean
you've
had
two
people
who
told
you
they
don't
support
this,
I
think
maybe
automobile.
I
can't
speak
for
you,
but
I
think
yeah.
She
was
a
thumbs
down,
so
you
have
you
have
three
who
said
that
they
would
not
support
this.
You
have
one
who's
missing
or
two
who
are
missing,
so
I
think,
usually
in
my
experience
I
think
the
committee
chair
has
like
kind
of
read
the
room
to
decide
if
this
is
worth
moving
forward.
C
There's
enough
support
to
have
a
discussion
now.
What
we've
done
before
is
kind
of
a
thumbs
up
and
thumbs
down.
I
don't
know
how
official
that
is,
but
I
I
do
think.
Maybe
we
refrain
from
the
term
voting,
though,
because,
as
with
this
very
active
citizen
base
that
we
have,
someone
will
hear
that
and
they
will
say
they're
taking
the
vote,
even
though
it's
listed
for
discussion,
so
I
think
just
if
we
want
to
figure
out
some
other
language.
C
It's
not
voting,
but
just
at
bottom
of
breakway's
point
that
I'm
going
to
be
done.
I
understand
what
you
mean
about
someone.
You
know
we're
going
to
start
this
search
and
we're
having
this
discussion.
I
do
think
it's
better
to
have
discussion
now
before
we
have
a
candidate
in
mind
and
to
have
a
new
person
who's
in
this
chair
and
then
maybe
next
year.
Sometimes
we
decide
to
revisit
this
rule
and
then
they're
like
oh,
I
just
got
here,
moved
my
whole
family
and
now
they're
making
the
rule
change.
C
Does
that
mean
I'm
out
the
door,
so
I
do
think
making
sure
we
have
all
of
our
rules
procedures
whatever
around
the
city,
manager's
office
and
anything
systematically.
We
want
to
do
in
place
before
the
person
gets
here.
It's
actually
a
fairer
thing
to
do,
instead
of
even
if
it's
not
based
on
the
actual
person
in
the
job
we
decide.
We
want
to
make
some
kind
of
change
to
the
person's
employment
so
to
speak,
and
then
they're
already
here.
A
I
will
echo
that
council
member
braithwaite.
F
Just
as
we're
speaking,
and
I
think
I
would
point
to
alderman
revell
and
maybe
alex
as
well,
I
think
maybe,
as
part
of
us
changing
the
number
we
included.
The
mayor
then
had
an
ability
to
vote,
and
I
can't
so
when
we
moved
the
number
up.
It
was
to
take
into
consideration
that
the
mayor
has
a
vote
in
prior
years
when
it
was
6-4.
F
A
It
later
point
of
order,
so
your
memory
is
mostly
correct.
What
you're
saying
is
that
it
was
5'4
that
there
was
a
5-4
vote.
A
The
mayor
has
the
ability
by
state
law,
to
vote
on
any
item
that
requires
more
than
a
simple
majority,
and
so
this
would
require
more
than
a
simple
majority
of
the
corporate
authorities,
thereby
giving
the
mayor
the
ability
to
vote
on
this
item,
so
that
number
still
could
be
six
of
the
corporate
authorities
rather
than
seven,
and
I
will
just
echo
what
council
member
fleming
said
that
I
do
think
it
makes
sense
to
get
this
in
order
before
we
have
a
new
city
manager.
A
H
So
it'll
come
back
for
introduction
and
if
the
votes
aren't
there
they're
not
there,
because
I
can
tell
you
right
now-
I'm
kind
of
split
on
this
one,
because
I
do
think
it's
awful
timing,
and
for
me,
it's
more
so
it
doesn't
limit
the
pool
for
us,
because
I
am
of
the
firm
belief
that
the
person
that
is
going
to
be
a
really
good
fit
for
this
city
may
potentially
be
you
know,
employed
and
on
the
fence
on
whether
or
not
they
even
want
to
make
a
change
in.
H
You
know
whether
or
not
they
want
to
make
a
big
change,
and
I
don't
we
know
as
soon
as
we
we
do.
This
there's
going
to
be
a
nice
article
about
this,
that
that
you
that
anybody
will
be
able
to
find
with
a
quick
google,
a
city
manager
in
evanston,
and
so
I
need
some
time
on
this
personally,
so
I
would
recommend
just
to
let
it
move
forward.
A
Sure
I
I
will
just
say
to
your
point,
since
there
are
no
further
lights.
When
is
a
good
time?
Is
it
when
the
city
manager
is
new
and
they're
only
on
the
job
for
a
couple
months
and
all
of
a
sudden
we're
changing
the
rule?
A
Is
it
after
they've
been
here
for
two
years
and
it
seems
like
maybe
we're
getting
a
little
tired
of
them
at
what
point
is
there
is
never
a
good
time
necessarily,
I
think,
if
anything
we
are
in
the
most
optimal
time
to
do
this,
there's
never
a
great
time,
and
this
seems
to
be
the
window
as
we're
in
between
folks.
That
would
be
the
best
time
to
do
it.
A
While
we
don't
have
anyone
in
mind
and
we're
just
saying
hey,
this
is
what
we
want
to
do
as
a
government
to
create
a
simple
majority
to
hire
and
fire
the
most.
You
know
important
role,
so
we
don't
have,
as
mayor
bis,
pointed
out
at
a
time
where
a
super
majority,
because
the
requirement
of
a
supermajority
vote,
we
can
hold
up
making
what
the
what
would
be
the
majority
of
our
community
is
progress.
H
H
A
K
So
I
do
agree
with
daniel
in
terms
of
taking
action
and
voting.
I
think
when
it's,
when
it's
noticed
that
it's
just
discussion,
that
we
should
just
go
ahead
and
you
as
chair,
move
it
forward
for
intro
and
action
or
for
intro
rather,
but
I
agree
that
I
think
sometimes
it's
disconcerting
for
the
public
to
think
that
something
is
just
for
discussion
and
then
to
see
serious.
A
Point
of
information,
so
the
kind
of
track
that
we
have
with
our
last
three
minutes
here,
as
we
wrap
up
our
meeting
with
the
track
that
we
have.
There
seems
that
there's
an
item
that
is
for
discussion
for
introduction
for
action
when
an
item
appears
on
a
committee
agenda,
as
we
discussed
recently.
I
don't
remember
who's
on
that
committee.
If
it
appears
for
introduction
it's
going
after
its
past
for
introduction,
it
goes
straight
on
to
council
for
introduction.
It
doesn't
get
two
readings
at
a
committee
at
the
committee
level.
A
G
C
But
that's
part
of
the
work
you
can
do
offline
bobby
has
said
he's
unsure
several
have
said.
No
several
have
seemed
to
be
in
support.
Two
are
not
here,
so
you
can
poll
the
committee
offline,
you
know
considering
the
people
who
aren't
here
and
if
you
feel
like
it
has
enough
support
or
enough
supports
at
least
have
another
conversation.
C
A
Happy
to
happy
to
do
that
as
we're
wanting
on
the
meeting
happy
to
happy
to
do
that,
but
I
do
think
we
should
formalize
moving
things
through
a
pipeline.
If,
if
it's
for
discussion-
and
we
have
a
discussion,
we
take-
we
make
some
amendments
to
whatever
is
proposed,
and
we
at
that
time
don't
like
it.
Then
it
should
die
formally
die
and
you
know
so
there
isn't
a
mystery.
What
happened
to
this
referral?
A
Well,
the
committee
chair
read
the
room
and
just
decided
that
it
wasn't
ready
to
move
forward,
councilmember
kelly
and
then
we'll
see.
K
I
think
it
has
been
formalized
once
it's
made
it
to
this
point.
That
already
is
formalized
in
discussion
and
I
think
at
that
point,
then
the
action
is
when
it's
discussed
at
introduction.
That
is
where
it
will
die
if
it
if
it
doesn't
go
forward.
I
don't
think
it's
at
this
point.
It's
already
been
formally
brought
here
through
the
referral
committee
or
whatever
the
process
that
that
brought
it
to
this
point.
K
So
I
think
this
is
where
it's
discussed
and
then
the
action
then
it
should
move
forward
automatically
for
introduction
and
at
that
point
it
either
carries
on
or
it
or
it
dies.
C
E
E
E
I'll
defer
to
the
expert
in
the
room.
G
A
Okay,
well
seeing
no
further
business
before
us.
We
can
conclude
this
meeting
at
7
31.