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From YouTube: Rules Committee Meeting 9-7-2021
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A
A
No
we're
in
person
ray
you're
up,
followed
by.
B
Followed
by
mary
rosinski
on
video.
B
D
D
Three
yeah.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
good
evening,
no
good
afternoon,
everyone.
My
first
issue
is
public
notice
of
a
meeting.
So
this
is
human
services
meeting
for
tonight,
but
there
isn't
any
mention
of
rules
committee.
Why
wasn't
there
a
notice
sent
out
for
rules
committee
anywhere
any
place
that
I
could
find
about
two
months
ago
I
called
three
one
one
and
asked
if
I
could
have
email
notification
sent
for
rules
committee,
which
is
only
one
of
a
hundred
and
fifty
seriously
150
notices
that
we
can
sign
up
for
for
evanston
notices
by
email.
D
D
So
I
have
a
public
comment
that
I
wrote
about
a
month
ago,
august
15th
good
evening.
It
sounds
like
we
have
an
issue
with
our
definition
of
terms.
What
does
it
mean
to
have
transparency
and
accountability?
Obviously,
there's
a
huge
problem
with
the
process
which
you
are
making
decisions
for
all
evanston
residents.
D
D
Yes,
sir,
and
how
many
of
our
residents
qualify
for
reparations,
this
is
called
an
exercise
in
futility.
Not
transparency.
When
can
we
expect
to
have
the
residents
be
part
of
the
process
and
decision
making?
This
lack
of
transparency.
D
D
E
A
Miss
mary
wazinski
can
give
me
one
quick
moment:
mary
just
go
ahead.
You
have
three
minutes.
F
Chair
braithwaite,
as
of
now,
there
are
no
public.
A
Perfect,
thank
you
very
much,
patricia
kelly
trisha
conley
going
once
going
twice.
Next,
we
have.
H
H
H
How
much
is
it
going
to
pay
and
how
is
that
going
to
impact
taxes
who
chooses
this
person
and
how
is
this
person's
credentials
going
to
be
vetted
and
I'd
like
to
have
some
commentary
on
that,
or
at
least
discussion,
whether
you
do
it
in
executive
committee
or
not
and
third,
regarding
the
requirement
for
any
prospective
ethics
board
members
that
they
have
a
prior
legal
background
or
prior
legal
training?
I
don't
really
think
that's
necessary.
H
It's
really
about
critical
thinking,
analysis
and
being
able
to
process
information
and
compare
and
contrast,
I
don't
have
a
legal
background
like
a
formal
legal
education,
but
I
work
in
fraud
and
risk
management
and
I'm
fully
capable
of
reading
through
the
documents
just
fine.
So
those
are
my
comments.
I
just
hope
that
when
you
do
consider
the
board
of
ethics,
I'm
glad
that
you
are
going
to
reinstate
it.
I
think
every
town
should
have
a
board
of
ethics
so
that
there's
accountability
in
government.
H
A
Thank
you
for
your
comments.
I
just
received
word
that
we
have
mary
wisinski
and
trisha
conley.
Thank
you
both
for
joining
us
at
the
meeting,
we're
still
in
public
comments,
and
you
have
three
minutes
mary.
If
you
are
on.
I
Hi
yeah,
thank
you
peter.
I
want
to
agree
with
the
person
before
me
about
the
ethics
committee.
I
don't
think
it
should
just
be
one
person
who's
hired.
I
think
that
having
a
good
discussion
with
people
who
are
qualified,
as
whoever
that
wasn't
said
about
the
critical
thinking
is
a
much
more
representative
of
the
evanston
community
and
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
have
a
of
the
ability
that
people
are
appointed
by
the
mayor
and
the
approved
by
council,
whatever
who's
on
that
committee
meeting.
I
The
second
thing
I
do
agree
also
with
ray
when
he
said
getting
the
getting
on
here.
Sorry,
I
signed
up
late,
but
I
didn't
have
a
link
to
go
to
get
on
on
time,
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
say
those
so
please
get
keep
the
ethics
board
make
it.
You
know
five
people
so
that
you
don't
have
a
problem
with
forum
and
go
forward
with
that.
Thank
you.
So
much
bye.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
comments.
Our
last
person
we
have
signed
up
is
trisha
conley.
F
F
Here
are
some
issues
that
have
probably
been
brought
up.
I
was
waiting
also
for
the
zoom
link,
so
I
didn't
listen
to
the
previous
speakers,
but
here's
a
few
things
that
stand
out
for
me
as
a
resident.
One
of
them
is
having
someone
from
city
staff
who
is
appointing
a
city,
administration,
administrative
hearing
officer.
F
F
I
really
called
to
mayor
biss
about
taking
the
reins
and
figuring
out
how
we
get
someone
not
connected
to
staff
to
handle
this.
You
know,
otherwise
it
really
becomes
very
questionable
what
the
motivation
is
for
doing
this.
In
addition,
as
mary
said,
you
know,
this
proposal
calls
for
three
members
on
the
board.
There
really
should
be
a
minimum
of
five,
because
this
is
going
to
promote
a
more
robust
democracy
and
it
will
offer
less
potential
for
lack
of
a
quorum
which
we
know
has
been
a
problem
in
the
past.
F
You
know
I'm
not
clear
on
why
staff
is
you
know
promoting
that
stoke
skokie
hasn't
had
an
ethics
complaint
in
recent
years.
You
know,
perhaps
that's
great.
I
wonder
you
know
if
there's
a
lack
of
issues
or
if
it's
really
about
a
lack
of
process
such
as
an
import,
an
appointed
person
from
the
inside
that's
dismissing
complaints.
I
have
to
wonder
that
so
power
to
skokie,
if
residents
feel
their
government
is
working
in
the
best.
F
For
them,
I
would
encourage
you
all
to
people
on
that
policy
instead
and
in
fact
I
would
encourage
you
to
put
this
on
hold
like.
Let's
get
the
board
of
ethics
up
and
going,
but.
A
K
The
changes
to
the
rules
for
the
epics
on
board
in
r6
are
I'd
like
to
suggest
an
over-correction
to
happenings
in
the
last
couple
of
years
concerning
complaints
brought
to
the
ethics
board.
First,
it
really
needs
to
be
understood
that
ethics
and
legal
compliance
or
legality
are
not
the
same.
This
is
a
widely
recognized
standard,
as
evidenced
by
the
inclusion
of
concepts
in
our
ethics
code,
such
as
conflict
of
interest
and
impartiality
and
community
standards,
and
also
phrases
such
as
the
appearance
of
impropriety.
K
These
concepts
are
not
adequately
parsed
by
legal
analysis.
They
need
a
much
richer
analysis,
and
this
is
why
there
are
university
centers
for
ethics
applied
ethics
which
actually
provide
training
to
municipal
ethics
boards
by
applied
ethics
scholars,
and
they
can
be
called
upon
to
assist
in
analysis.
K
There's
no
reason
to
limit
the
epics
board
membership
to
attorneys
or
to
three
members,
and
to
do
so
is
really
to
reduce
ethics
to
legal
compliance.
We
have
legal
staff
that
can
do
legal
compliance,
ethics
board.
The
very
reason
it's
a
board
is
it's
recognized
widely
recognized
as
something
distinct.
K
K
You
know
that
is,
if
you
think
about
it,
really
frames
what
the
investigation
is
going
to
be
about
so
one
person
getting
to
decide.
That
is
not
a
good
checks
and
balances.
K
L
That
concludes
our
public
comment
and
alderman
braithwaite.
A
L
Executive
session,
one
second,
I
may
or
miss.
M
M
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Pursuant
to
five
ilcs
120,
slash
2a,
I
moved
to
the
rules
committee
convened
into
executive
session
to
discuss
agenda
items
regarding
meeting
minutes.
This
agenda
item
is
a
permitted
subject
to
be
considered
an
executive
session.
It
is
an
enumerated
exception
under
the
open
meetings
act.
These
exceptions
are
five
ilcs
120,
slash
2c
and
are
set
forth
as
follows:
exception
number
21
discussion
of
minutes
lawfully
closed
under
the
open
meetings,
act
for
the
purposes
of
review
and
semi-annual
review.
C
I
C
It
here
on
the
agenda,
but
I
didn't
realize
that's
what
we
were
doing
if
we're
just
reviewing
minutes.
I
would
think
that
we
would
deal
with
the
business
of
the
committee
first,
because
we
have
people
here
in
the
audience
and
online
who
care
about
the
ethics
board
care
about
the
other
things
that
are
on
the
agenda
executive
session
should
be
safe
for
last.
I
would
think.
L
Thank
you,
everyone
we're
going
to
move
on
with
our
agenda,
so
the
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
our
three
approval
of
the
minutes.
Would
someone
please
make
a
motion.
J
M
L
L
L
All
right
minutes
of
june
7
are
approved.
Thank
you.
First
item
for
consideration
is
r5
discussion
of
city
of
evanston
city
council,
rule
9.8
and
conflicts
pertaining
to
committee
chairs
schedules
the
this
is
for
discussion,
the
rules
committee.
We
need
to
resolve
this
conflict
and
there
is
a
memo
in
our
packet
describing.
L
The
the
conflict
and
the
various
chair
schedules-
if
we
don't
do
something
about
the
rules
committee
description,
so
I'm
I
I
do
want
miss
francelle.
No
did
you
want
to
talk
about
this
a
little
bit.
N
N
So
I
went
through
the
schedule
and
found
out
if
there
were
to
see
if
there
were
any
other
conflicts,
and
I
think
it
states
in
your
council
packet,
the
conflicts
that
are
that
have
that
that
are
going
to
happen
coming
coming
on.
So
either
the
option
is
to
exclude
rules
from
the
standing,
the
standing
committee
as
serving
two
two
at
one
time
or
to
avoid
to
avoid
the
conflict
or
we
can
change
it.
Where
I
have
a
list
of
how
we
can
swap
out
names
to
avoid
the
conflict.
N
So
it's
either.
The
option
is
either
to
exclude
rules
or
I
can
give
you
what
I've
come
up
with
to
avoid
the
conflict
another
way.
So
it's
up
to
you
all.
L
Right
so
let's
have
some
discussion
council,
member
reed.
C
Yes,
thank
you
dar
for
doing
that
late
work.
I
I
don't
think
that
we
should
exclude
rules
from
the
standing
committees
again,
as
I
have
pointed
out
before,
the
rules
committee
is
the
most
standing
of
standing
committees,
because
it
literally
has
every
member
of
the
council
serving
on
it.
So
it
certainly
is
a
standing
committee.
C
And-
and
I
think
we
can
resolve
this
conflict
by
you-
know,
reworking
the
chairman
schedule
as
we
look
through
it
for
rules
committee.
If
you
just
go
straight
down
the
line
to
avoid
conflicts,
you
know
currently
in
line
is
alderman
win,
but
she's
conflicted
out.
Alderman
braithwaite
is
then
conflicted
out.
C
The
next
person
in
line
would
be
alderman
revell
and
she
will
soon
be
conflicted
out,
as
she
will
be
chair
of
p
d
and
then
after
that
is
myself
and
I'm
interested
in
being
a
chair
of
rules,
and
so
I
think
the
way
that
we
can
move
forward
with
this
easiest
is
just
to
follow
the
schedule,
and
I
asked
to
close
out
this
term
and
finish
the
last
few
weeks
of
alderman
wins
term
and
then
begin
my
term,
and
so
I
make
that
a
motion.
J
Yeah,
it
seems
to
me
the
easiest
thing
to
do
is
just
go
with
a
new
schedule
that
miss
friend
channel
has
provided
here.
I
don't
know
the
history
of
when
the
confusion
came,
but
you
know
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
change
a
rule.
If
we
can,
you
know,
keep
the
rule
as
it
is
and
kind
of
just
change
our
chairmanship,
since
they
have
not
all
started
yet.
J
I
also
do
just
want
to
thank
councilmember
reed
he
I
remember
he
brought
this
up
two
or
three
times
before
we
actually
listened
to
him
and
found
out
that
he
was
right.
So
I
think
this
is
also
a
good
lesson
for
us
to
make
sure
we're
listening
to
people
when
they
bring
items
up.
So
I
hope
that
we
just
can
pass
this
new
chairmanship
schedule,
thanks
dar
for
fixing
it
and
then
we'll
move
forward.
J
A
And
our
thank
you
so
much
for
putting
in
in
the
work
and
I'm
and
I'm
okay
with
with
making
the
exception
to
to
rules
committee,
I
I
can't
predict
what
the
composition
of
our
future
councils
will
look
like,
but
to
avoid
that
moving
forward,
it
just
seems
like
a
very
simple
fix
that
doesn't
disrupt
any
of
the
other
schedule.
So
I'm
fine
the
way
it
is.
C
So
currently,
aldermen
win
would
serve
until
october
2021,
but
there's
a
conflict
there.
Alderman
braithwaite
would
be
next
in
line
to
serve
according
to
this
schedule
here.
But
alderman
braithwaite
is
currently
chair
of
a
standing
committee
of
administration
and
public
works,
and
then
you
would
be
next
in
line,
but
then
you'll
be
chair
of
p
d
fairly
soon,
and
then
naturally
I
would
be
the
next.
C
Moving
my
name
up
serving
out
my
what
would
be
my
you
know,
two
or
three
months
here,
three
months,
the
remainder
of
alderman
wins
a
couple
weeks
and
then
continue
down
the
line.
C
O
L
Council
members,
I'm
hearing
discussion
here
from
the
staff
kelly.
Would
you
like
to
speak
to
this
miss
gandersky?
Yes,.
B
Good
evening,
members
of
city
council,
kelly
gandersky
deputy
city
manager,
I'm
speaking
with
miss
franchelle.
No,
I
I
don't
think
that
would
resolve
the
sched
the
conflicts
in
total,
because
if
council
member
reed
took
over
his
rules,
I
think
there
will
be
other
conflicts
going
forward
in
the
schedule
as
well.
B
So
the
the
memo
as
proposed
was
to
do
one
of
two
things.
One
first
would
be
exempt
rules,
not
as
a
standing
committee,
but
exempt
rules
from
rule
9.8
or
b.
The
second
option
would
be
miss.
Franchelno
has
to
entirely
redo
the
chair
schedule
for
the
next
four
years,
which
this
wasn't
the
only
conflict,
so
my
understanding
would
be.
There
would
be
another
conflict
down
the
road
for
council
member
braithwaite,
councilmember
sufferdan,
councilmember
reed
again.
E
L
L
L
I
think
a
simpler
thing
to
do
would
be
to
simply
exempt
rules
from
from
9.8
and
then
then
we
proceed
as
we
are
doing:
council
member
reed
and
then
council,
member
newsma.
C
Okay,
so
one,
I
think,
the
real
issue
here
isn't
our
rule,
which
it
you
know
says
that
the
council
member
can't
serve
on
as
chair
of
two
standing
committees.
I
think
part
of
the
issue
is
the
way
that
we're
determining
the
chair
as
a
whole,
we're
using
the
seniority
schedule
schedule
which,
of
course,
is
going
to
cause
conflicts
when
you
have
all
of
the
people
who
are
senior
at
the
top
it's
going
to
create,
and
we
have
several
committees,
it's
going
to
create
an
obvious
conflict.
C
A
If,
if
there's
a
way-
and
I
think
we
said
this
before
just
flip-
to
make
you
chair-
we
would
do
it,
but
there
is
a
continuous.
There
will
be
a
continuous
rotation
of
trying
to
reshuffle
this,
that
we're
putting
on
on
the
backs
of
staff,
and
I
really
think
we
have
more
important
issues
to
to
resolve
not
only
this
evening
but
moving
forward
and
just
for
the
members
of
the
new
council.
There
have
been
months
where
we
just
didn't
meet
for
rules
just
this.
A
But
the
floor
is
yours:
to
respond
council.
C
L
C
I
have
two
responses,
one
it's.
This
isn't
my
issue,
this
isn't
about
me
or
you
know,
rules
committee
as
clerk
rules
or
something
that
I
focused
on.
So
it's
something
I
obviously
care
about,
and
I
certainly
do
want
to
serve
as
a
chair
of
rules.
But
it's
not
about
that.
It's
about.
We,
as
a
council
adopted
a
rule.
You
voted
for
it.
Everyone
up
here
voted
for
it
unanimously
that
a
council
member
can't
serve
as
chair
of
two
committees.
C
We
at
some
point
a
council
down
the
road
thought
that
that
was
a
a
wise
rule
to
have,
and
we've
kept
that
rule
and
just
like.
If
a
resident
in
our
city
doesn't
follow
a
rule,
they
get
a
ticket
and
they
you
know
they
can't
just
say
yeah.
C
So
we
we
should
follow
the
rules
that
we
set,
and
so
that's
what
this
is
about,
and
and
I'm
really
glad
that
you
said
that
if
there
was
a
mechanism
to
to
make
me
chair
of
rules
that
you'd
be
glad
to
do
it.
Because
I
will
now
make
a
motion
that
we
revise
the
schedule
and
that
in
order
to
resolve
this
apparent
conflict
now,
which
is
violating
the
rules
that
we
just
follow
the
schedule
straight
down
and
the
next
person
in
line
would
be
myself
to
serve
as
rules
committee
chair.
Q
C
The
motion
is
to
fix
the
apparent
conflict
in
the
rules
chairmanship
and
to
go
straight
down
the
line.
The
next
person
in
line
that
does
not
have
a
conflict
would
be
myself
and
so.
C
Is
that
I
would
serve
as
chair
of
rules
committee
for
the
remainder
of
this
term
and
then
start
my
term.
E
L
M
Want
to
understand
the
motion
council
member,
it
seems
to
me
that
the
person
currently
listed
as
following
the
current
term
is
council.
Member
braithwaite.
So
are
you?
Are
you
suggesting
is
the
motion
for
you
to?
I
think
I
heard
you
say
two
different
things.
One
is.
The
motion
is
for
you
to
complete
the
current
term
and
one
is
for
you
to
complete
the
current
term
and
then
occupy
the
subsequent
term
as
well.
M
If
the
ladder
is
the
motion,
then
that
requires
all
kinds
of
other
juggling,
because
that's
councilmember,
it's
chairmanship
being
bumped
for
something
else.
L
I
I
I
there
is
a
very
simple
fix
to
this
everyone.
We
just
exempt
the
rules
committee
from
rule
9.8
and
then
we
move
through
the
schedule
as
we've
done.
Yes,
that
would
then
correct
the
rule
and
we
would
be
in
compliance.
I
agree
we
should
be
in
compliance
with
our
rules.
L
Remarkably,
we
have
gone
term
after
term
on
this
council
out
of
compliance
with
that,
and
we
did
not
notice
it
before.
I
do
think
that
we
are
going
to
continue
to
have
to
reshuffle
when
all
we
would
have
to
do
is
say
that
the
rules
committee
is
exempt
from
rule
9.8
and
then
we
all
move
forward
with
our
agenda
council
member
burns.
Q
I
think
what
also
was
proposed
is
that
there
may
be
a
better
way
to
do
this
than
the
appoint
chairs
through
seniority.
That
would
say
that
it
wasn't
acknowledged
by
anybody,
but
it
was
stated
and
it
makes
sense
there
are
other
ways
of
doing
things
that
we
should
consider,
but
also
you
know
we
should
have.
Q
I
think
councilman
reed
has
demonstrated
that
he
is
interested
in
being
a
chair
of
rules,
and
I
would
like
to
see
people
assigned
to
positions
that
they
actually
want
to
do
that
they
have
a
passion
about,
and
I
would
much
rather
like
to
vote
on
the
remaining
term,
but
also
happy
to
vote
on
his
term
continuing
into
the
next
one,
and
I
don't
think
it's
I
mean
doc
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
it'll
take
some
time,
but
it's
not
overly
burdensome
to
figure
this
out
and
the
result
is
we
have
a
chair
that
wants
to
do
it.
Q
L
Q
Right
so
the
political
the
politics
are
for
for
the
for
the.
As
far
as
this
matter
is
concerned,
the
politics
over
we
are
all
elected,
and
so
what
I'm
saying
is
I
don't.
I
think
that
he
has
demonstrated
a
certain
passion
and
interest
to
be
chair
of
the
rules
committee
that
I
have
not
seen
from
any
other
member.
If
someone
is
this
interested
right
and
sharing
the
rules
committee,
then
they
can
make
that
known.
I
have
not
heard
it
on
this
body,
and
so
that's
what
I
mean.
Q
I'm
not
saying
people
aren't
here
to
suit
up
and
do
their
job.
I'm
just
saying
he
has
shown
a
particular
interest
in
his
role.
It
sounds
like
he
is
next
up
in
terms
of
if
we
look
at
who
is
conflicted
out
and
who's
not
and
and
so
not
only
do
we
follow
the
order,
but
we
will
have
a
council
member
that
has
shown
a
particular
interest
and
passion
and
serving
in
this
capacity
right
now.
At
this
moment,.
L
L
This
is
not
about
who's,
the
most
passionate
I'm
not
going
to
campaign
to
be
chair
when,
as
councilmember
fleming
said
months
ago,
every
single
person
who
voted
for
us
assumed
that
we
would
have
an
opportunity
to
serve
equally
on
every
committee
of
this
council,
and
that
is
what
all
of
us
deserve
to
have
not
to
campaign
to
be
chair.
The
system
that
we
have
set
up
is
fair.
L
Every
single
member
of
this
council
rotates
through
chairs,
and
that
is
fair,
and
that
is
what
our
residents
voted
for.
That's
the
system
that
we
have,
that
is
the
fair
system
we
have
before
I
became
a
member
of
this
council
chairs,
were
appointed
by
the
mayor.
The
council
that
I
started
on
changed
that
system,
because
people
did
not
get
a
fair
chance
to
serve.
We
changed
that
system
to
the
fair
system
we
have
now
now.
Ms
farantelno
apparently
has
a.
Q
Q
L
Not
the
motion
on
the
table
as
chair
the
chair
speaks
last.
The
chair
speaks
last
at
committees,
so
the
chair
allows
any
motion
to
come
forward
and
then
the
chair
does
not
usually
make
a
motion.
I've
been
prepared.
I
already
been
suggesting
that,
but
I'd
like
to
hear
the
system
that
miss
france
elnos
says
she
has.
N
Okay,
the
other
option
to
alleviate
any
more
conflicts
through
2025
would
be
to
continue
to
have
win
as
chair
through
october.
If
there's
going
to
be
october
rules
committee
meeting
for
december
2021
through
april
2022
reed
will
replace
council
member
braithwaite
reveal
would
replace
I'm
sorry,
sufferden
will
replace,
reveal
and
braithwaite
would
replace.
Reed.
E
L
N
Yeah
and
never
forget
that,
and
I
did
leave
you
out
council
member
of
that
I
am
so
sorry.
E
G
G
So
that
being
said,
I
don't
know
if
it's
appropriate
for
us
to
adjust
the
calendar
right
now,
because
it
was
an
item
that
was
noticed
for
discussion,
but
I
also
wanted
to
point
out
that
councilmember,
if
it
is
based
on
seniority,
councilmember
sufferden
should
proceed.
Reid
is
my
understanding
in
terms
of
seniority
is
concerned,
so
that
might
changed
some
of
the
conflict,
but
I'm
not
100
sure.
But
my
point
for
being
recognized
by
the
chair
is
that
it
was
noted
for
discussion
at
the
rules
committee
voted
previously
to
use
seniority.
L
B
B
I
just
wanted
to
state
whatever
the
the
council
decides
is
fine.
If
it's
going
to
require
a
shuffle
and
schedule,
I
just
want
my
staff
to
have
adequate
time
to
make
sure
it's
done
right,
so
that
we're
not
just
doing
this
ad
hoc.
I
appreciate
miss
franchelno's,
diligent
efforts
to
keep
up
with
the
schedule
and
she's
done
a
great
job.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
she's
got
the
time
to
dedicate
to
look
this
over
and
make
sure
it's
done
right
so
that
we're
not
just
doing
this
on
the
fly.
J
Thank
you,
and
that
was
actually
my
point,
ms
anderson,
I
I
my
memory
serves
me
that
when
this
was
brought
the
first
time
we
did
nothing
the
second
time
I
thought
we
asked
for
an
adjusted
schedule
to
be
brought
back
here
to
look
at
I'm
I'm
happy
to
review
the
the
minutes,
because
I'm
almost
positive,
that's
what
happened
now,
maybe
that
information
did
not
get
to
ms
franciano,
but
I'm
pretty
sure
we
asked
for
the
schedule,
because
the
reason
we
didn't
talk
about
it
at
that
time
was
because
we
did
not
have
an
adjusted
schedule.
J
So
we
asked
for
the
schedule,
be
adjusted
and
brought
back
so
that
tonight
we
can
see
what
the
options
were.
So
I'm
not
sure
where
the
miscommunication
was.
But
that
was
one
of
the
questions
I
was
going
to
ask
this
evening
because
I
did
not
see
a
justice
schedule
and
I'm
not
positive
of
a
lot
of
things,
but
I'm
pretty
sure
that
we
asked
for
that
to
be
done
so
that
tonight
we
could
look
at
it.
J
L
P
Thank
you,
chair,
chairwin,
not
to
confuse
things
even
further,
but
I'd
also
just
like
to
note
for
the
record
that
we
have
a
new
committee,
the
finance
and
budget
committee
which,
as
we've
structured,
it
is
not
a
standing
committee
and
therefore
will
not
be
subject
to
any
kind
of
rules
or
restrictions
on
who
can
share
that
just
like
to
get
that
out
there,
and
I
know
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
that
later
this
evening.
Okay,.
P
To
the
resolution
of
this
particular
issue
here,
let's
just
get
it
done
one
way
or
the
other
we're
all
going
to
have
a
chance
to
chair.
It's
I'm
ready
to
vote,
maybe
not
on
the
motion.
I
don't
want
to.
P
If,
if
the
choices
in
front
of
us,
I
think,
are
to
change
the
rules
or
to
redo
the
schedule,
whatever
that
might
end
up
being
and
I'm
not
prepared
to
vote
in
favor
of
council
member
reed's
motion,
because
I
don't
know
what
that
schedule
might
be
and
if
we
adopt
the
resolution
as
as
stated
there
might
be
other
unintended
consequences,
other
dominoes
down
the
line
that
would
have
to
be
readjusted.
So
I
don't
think
we
should
be
voting
on
an
actual
schedule
tonight
just
on
how
to
resolve
this
problem.
Well,.
C
Yes
again,
I
think
we're
we're
all
making
this
far
more
complicated
than
it
has
to
be.
I
think
the
you
know
we
can
solve
the
conflict
that
is
in
front
of
us
now.
We
know
that
a
rule
is
being
violated.
C
We
can
stop
violating
that
rule
now
and
we
can
have
a
schedule
if
we
need
a
schedule
brought
back
at
some
point.
We
can
do
that
there,
but
we
can
fix
the
conflict
that
exists
now.
Mayor
best,
I
was
going
to
tell
you
mary
birth
with
meredith.
You
brought
up
a
point
about
you
know.
If
if
we
were
to
go
straight
down
the
line,
would
I
be
bumping
alderman
birth
weights
term?
If
I
were
to
finish,
you
know.
E
C
C
Thank
you
if
I
can
not
be
interrupted,
so
what
would
so
there
wouldn't
be
a
conflict,
so
we
wouldn't
be.
We
would
continue
we'd
eliminate
the
conflict.
Currently,
we
can
go
back
and
review
it
further
and
dark
can
do
that.
But
the
real
thing
is
seniority
and
and
to
claim
that
the
seniority.
C
System
that
we
use
now
is
fair,
I
don't
know
by
whose
standards,
but
I
can
point
to
someone
who
I
view
as
a
personal
hero
of
mine,
alderman,
edwin
jourdain,
who,
when
he
was
elected
in
1931,
one
of
the
first
things
that
the
first
black
alderman
and
the
first
woman
alderman
in
our
city
did
was
fight
against
the
practice
of
seniority.
C
Alderman
jordan
gave
a
very
impassioned
statement
from
this
diocese
at
some
other
building
at
the
time
and
said
that
you
we
need
to
end
that
practice
because
it
entrenches
the
status
quo
and
it
negates
the
effects
of
elections.
I
mean,
of
course
this
is
political.
We
are
elected
officials,
we
our
whole
political
office,
and
you
know
there
are,
and
there
are
consequences
to
elections
and
new
people
were
elected
here,
and
I
think
what
is
fair
is
that
we
all
get
a
chance
to
serve.
You
know
at
an
appropriate
time.
C
So
I
I
would
hope
that
we
can.
You
know
not
be
political
in
this
moment
and
move
forward
with
fixing
the
issue
that
we
know
is
at
hand,
and
that
has
been
raised.
I
I've
raised
this
since
I
think
the
first
or
second
meeting
that
we've
had
it's
been
the
entire
summer
and
we've
continuously
had
meetings
where
we
acted
as
if
we
weren't
violating
the
rules
and
to
now
say
that
you
know
we're
not
prepared
or
there
wasn't
it's
been
months.
So
so,
let's
fix
this
tonight,
council.
R
So
yes,
I
I
want
to
echo,
I
mean
there
are
inherent
issues
with
using
seniority
and
I
think
the
rule
is
an
attempt
to
to
address
that.
So
I
would
ask
that
we
not
change
the
rules
now
or
modify
in
order
to
I
mean
you
know.
The
inherent
issues
with
with
seniority
is
the
inadvertent
and
completely
inadvertent,
unwilling,
but
I
mean
not
meaning
to
monopolize
the
politics
of
the
city
government,
so
I
think
that's
that's
why
we
have
that
rule.
So
I'd
ask
that
we
follow
our
rule.
R
Thank
you,
I'm
sorry,
but
the
rule
regarding
the
number
of
committees
that
someone
can
serve
on.
Since
we
do
have
this.
You
know
the
seniority
in
place
which
again
has
those
issues.
I
believe
our
rule
is
there
to
address
to
address
the
issues
that
come
with
setting
in
place,
seniority
as
a
system.
L
All
right,
so
I
I
am
completely
agnostic
on
this.
I
would
just
like
us
to
resolve
this.
I
don't
want
to
be
in
violation.
I
do
care
very
deeply
about
serving
as
chair.
I
do
think
there
is
an
advantage,
especially
with
the
new
city
council,
of
having
seniority
seniority
in
the
sense
that
we
have
it
on.
This
council
is
different
than
perhaps
it
was
with
alderman
jordan
seniority
used
to
rule
the
senate
where
you
never
had
anyone
rotate
off
the
chairmanship.
That's
not
what
we
do.
L
We
assign
the
initial
roll
call
by
seniority
and
then
we
do
rotate.
So
we
are
not
a
true
pure
seniority
system.
That's
just
how
we
start
start
the
list
and
I
would
not
support
a
system
of
seniority
and
I
did
not
support
a
system
where
the
mayor
appointed
permanent
chairs
to
every
committee,
and
that
was
the
system
that
existed
before
1997..
L
R
Turn
your
light
back
on.
I
did,
I
just
want
to
say
yeah.
No,
I
agree,
I
think,
there's
obvious
obvious
value
in
seniority,
so
I'm
just
saying
the
system
that
I'm
saying
we
have
a
checks
and
balances,
though
in
place,
I
think,
with
the
rule
to
ensure
that
it's
appropriately
used-
and
so
I
I
agree,
I
think,
there's
absolute
value
in
seniority.
C
If
I
can
clarify
the
motion,
the
motion
is
to
do
what
you
actually
just
stated,
which
was
to
follow
the
role
and
if
we
followed
dars
original
proposal
as
it
was
set,
and
we
went
straight
down
the
line
from
from
yourself
alderman
braithwaite,
aldermer
vel.
C
The
next
person
in
line
who
is
not
conflicted
at
this
moment
would
be
myself,
and
so
the
motion
is
to
do
what
aldrin
braithwaite
said
he
agreed
and
what
you
said
that
you
agreed,
which
is
to
fix
the
conflict
and
to
do
it.
C
Alderman
suffering
was
the
chair
of
rules
directly
for
seating.
This
reorganized
the
new
council
coming
on,
so
he
was
the
chair.
Proceeding
yourself.
C
A
A
Part
of
me,
the
point
that
I
want
to
make
is
that
I
said
if
you
could
be,
and
it
wouldn't
impact
because
what's
going
to
happen
now,
since
we've
continued
to
do
this
over
four
meetings
without
any
processing,
keep
in
mind,
we've
already
made
over
75
percent
of
like
changes
to
our
rules.
So
this
to
me
is
no
different
than
any
of
the
arguments
that
we've
had
that
drones
on
to
all
hours
of
the
night.
A
The
point
that
I
wanted
to
make
is,
if
it
didn't
impact,
if
we
didn't
have
to
come
back
to
this
point
over
and
over
and
over
again
over
the
next
four
years,
so
by
removing
it
we're
good
we're
good
and
then
we
just
follow
the
natural
progression,
and
I
guess
I
would
just
appeal
to
my
colleagues
that
we're
supposed
to
start
human
services
in
20
minutes
and
it's
conversations
like
these.
I
have
to
be
honest.
It
does
cause
a
little
frustration
because
we
haven't
even
addressed
one
two.
M
Bis,
I'm
sorry
yeah,
I'm
sorry,
I'm!
I
do
not
want
to
wait
into
the
argument
here.
I
just
want
to
understand
what
we
would
be
voting
on.
So,
as
I
understand
it,
council
member
your
motion
is
to
make
yourself
the
chair
of
rules
effective.
B
M
At
the
end
of
this
meeting,
through
the
end
of
what's
currently
on
our
on
our
grid,
is
council,
member
wen's
term
and
then
also
taking
what's
listed
on.
Our
grid
is
council
member
braithwaite's
term.
So
my
question
is:
does
your
motion
include
a
reshuffling
for
the
rest
of
the
terms,
or
does
it
just
leave
that
leave
that
for
leave
that
sort
of
loose
and
open
and
for
us
to
resolve
some
other
time.
C
Well,
so
what
we
understand
is
that
there
is
a
conflict
that
exists
now,
and
so
we
can
fix
the
conflict
that
exists
now
and
has
existed
for
months
and
has
been
raised
for
months
with
with
with
no
solution,
and
you
know
if
we
were
and
we
can
fix
any
other
conflict
that
exists.
I
mean
there.
If
I
look
through
this
and
if
you
take
a
second
look,
the
conflicts
exist
throughout
this.
C
So
no
matter
what,
if
we
keep
the
rule,
which
I
think
we
should,
and
I
think
it
seems
as
though
the
majority
of
folks
believe
we
should
keep
that
rule-
that
the
the
conflict
will
continue
to
exist.
We
have
to
reshuffle
so
I
guess
to
clarify
it
is
to
make
the
fix
now
that
with
the
parent
conflict
and
then,
if
we
do
whatever
we
need
to
fix
down
the
road
it'll
need
to
be
fixed
anyhow,
we
can
do
that,
but
let's
fix
the
conflict
that
exists
now
so.
C
Well,
the
the
the
way
it
would
work
is
that
I'm
unclear
is
this
set,
as
if
the
committee
only
meets
every
other
month?
Is
that
the
issue.
J
L
C
So
the
motion
would
be
that.
J
J
C
J
E
J
L
G
Was
going
to
say,
the
motion
needs
to
be
stated.
I
was
going
to
ask
for
clarification
of
whether
he
was
actually
withdrawing
it,
because
I
didn't
hear
him
mention
it
about
withdrawing
it.
But
this
item
again
was
for
discussion.
G
L
G
C
Just
a
point
of
information
who
determines
committee
agendas.
C
G
C
The
chair
decided
to
put
this
for
a
discussion
when
it's
very
clear
that
this
has
been
an
issue
the
entire
summer
that
has
been
raised,
and
it
just
it's
convenient
that
this
is
for
discussion
and
not
for
action.
So
then
we
have
another
meeting
where
we're
not
in
compliance
with
the
rules,
and
you
know
we're
not
we're
not
solving
this
issue,
and
so
I
think
that
this
is
something
that
needs
to
be
addressed
this
evening.
I,
I
don't
think
it's
a.
C
It
would
be
a
violation
for
us
to
make
that
adjustment
to
our
committee
schedule.
It
certainly
isn't
a
reconsideration
of
seniority.
It's
just
a
it's
just
changing
the
committee's
chair
schedule.
L
Q
No,
I
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
this
this
is
really
not
controversial.
It's
only
somewhat
controversial
if
there's
an
appetite
to
exempt
the
rules
committee
from
the
whatever
the
number
of
the
rule
is,
and
so,
but
other
than
that.
It's
not
really
controversial,
like
I
don't
think
even
councilmember
suffered
in
even
nor
even
alderman.
Q
Breithway
really
are
interested
that
deeply
in
being
chair
of
the
rules
committee
right
now,
and
so
I
don't
see
why
we
can't
vote
on
this,
put
calcium,
remember,
reid
in
place
and
then
go
back
in
between
this
meeting
and
the
next
one
and
do
the
necessary
reshuffling
like
this
is
we're
making
it
more
controversial
than
it
is.
Q
Unless
we
want
to
amend
the
rules
to
allow
or
exempt
the
rules
committee
from
the
rule
and
then
have
council
member
wayne
continue
to
to
operate
his
chair
and
if
there's
an
appetite
for
it,
which
I
don't
think,
there's
votes
to
amend
to
to
exempt
rules
committee.
Then
it's
not
controversial,
like
let's
just
put
somebody
in
place
who
is
next
in
line,
and
then
we
can
figure
out
the
rest
in
between
this
meeting
and
the
next
one.
E
Q
Now,
if
we
can,
if
we
can
do
that,
I
know
this
is
for
discussion.
I
would
like
for
it
also
to
be
for
action
again.
We
we
have
been
operating
outside
of
our
rules
now
for
way
longer
than
what
is
required
right.
L
Well,
can
I
just
address
that
by
my
account
we
have
had
as
a
rules
committee,
almost
15
hours
of
discussion.
It
might
be
more
than
that.
Actually,
it
might
be
18.
part
of
the
reason
why
we
haven't
gotten
to
this
is
because
we
have
had
so
much
discussion,
valuable
on
so
many
other
rules
and
at
some
point
we
we
are
no
longer
effective.
As
a
committee,
I
don't.
I
am
not
interested
in
breaking
the
rules
of
the
city
council.
L
I
do
want
to
bring
up
one
other
point
by
by
exempting
the
rules
committee
from
this
rule.
It
allows
every
single
member
of
this
council
to
have
an
equal
opportunity
to
serve
as
chair
of
rules.
E
L
L
C
A
point
of
point
of
information
just
to
ensure
that
the
record
is
correct.
Members
don't
serve
as
chair
of
rules
two
two
times
every
member
serves
as
chair
of
rules
once.
L
Okay,
I,
where
there's
a
motion
on
the
floor,
it's
to
make
council
member,
read
chair
and
then
come
back
after
that
is
that
correct
to
readjust.
C
To
clarify
it
would
be
to
serve
a
term,
it
would
be
to
just
begin
the
term
not
to
if,
if
we
need
to
adjust
it
to
just
begin,
what
would
be
my
natural
term
since
we
can
correct
the
schedule,
it
would
be
finishing
the
remainder
of
this
and
just
serving
what
would
be
a
natural
three.
L
G
L
G
The
chair,
scheduled
for
the
rules
committee,
was
amended
to
just
be
the
number
of
meetings,
as
opposed
to
the
months.
It
might
resolve
some
of
the
conflicts
in
terms
of
the
rotation
and
then
that
way
he
could
be
chair
in
october
or
something
of
that
nature.
G
But
the
the
issue
is
still
going
to
come
up
again
and
it
really
needs
to
be
either
it's
until
october
and
we
come
back
with
a
new
schedule
or
until
april
and
he's
the
longest
serving
rules
committee
chair
in
the
history
of
the
rules
committee
and
then
we
come
back
with
another
schedule
as
well.
One
or
the
other.
L
C
Okay,
so
it
seems
as
though
every
member
of
the
council
serves
about
if
it's
three
months
and
we're
assuming
that
folks
we're
assuming
there's
a
meeting
every
other
month.
It
seems
as
though
folks
served
for
about
six
months.
I
am
asking
to
commence
a
six-month
term
now,
which
would
be
a
natural,
a
natural
term.
C
L
So
we
would,
with
the
center,
with
the
seconder,
please
re-second,
that.
Q
A
P
Q
I
I
N
L
L
I'll
just
read
this
in
this:
is
staff
recommend
city
council,
adoption
of
ordinance,
2021
amending
title
1,
chapter
10
of
the
evanston
city
code,
city
of
evanston,
code
of
ethics
and
board
of
ethics.
This
is
for
action.
I
will
move
approval.
G
Sure,
good
evening,
members
of
the
rules
committee,
chairwin.
E
G
City
minister
gundersky
nicholas
cummings
corporation
council,
at
the
last
rules
committee
meeting,
we
had
steve
berlin
who's.
The
executive
director
of
the
city
of
chicago
board
of
ethics
come
and
provide
his
thoughts
on
best
practices
for
boards
of
ethics,
understanding
that
the
city
of
city
of
chicago
is
not
the
best
model
for
the
city
of
evanston,
because
they
have
a
fully
staffed
board
of
ethics
with
four
attorneys
executive
assistants,
etc.
G
G
First,
that's
exactly
what
mr
berlin
described
happens
in
the
city
of
chicago
all
that
evidence
goes
before
an
administrative
hearing
officer
who's
a
who's,
an
attorney
who
can
then
make
the
determination
in
terms
of
the
rules
of
evidence,
etc
and
then
bring
a
written
recommendation
to
the
resident
appointed
board
of
ethics.
Unlike
chicago,
there
will
be
no
sort
of
secret
meetings
with
the
respondent
in
the
board
of
ethics.
G
If
they
feel
that
there
should
be
more
evidence
heard,
they
can
send
it
back
if
they
feel
that
the
there
should
be
a
fine,
they
can
levy
that
fine,
but
the
ultimate
arbiter
of
the
decision
would
be
the
board
of
ethics.
The
hearing
officer
would
merely
parse
through
the
evidence
that
goes,
that's
been
brought
before
it.
The
other
thing
that's
sort
of
like
chicago,
but
is
sort
of
also
unique.
We
don't
we're
not
large
enough
really
to
have
an
inspector
general
in
chicago.
G
G
That
special
counsel
would
then
be
charged
with
investigating
ethics
claims,
as
well
as
any
other
suggestions
in
terms
of
our
ethics
code
to
bring
to
city
council
that
they
would
be
paid.
According
to
the
resolution
that
city
council
has
put
forth
that
we
have
hired
outside
council
for
in
the
current
term,
as
well
as
the
hearing
officers,
would
be
independent
contractors
hired
by
the
city.
One
of
the
other
questions
that
came
up
is
how
those
in
how
those
administrative
hearing
officers
are
chosen.
G
We
just
completed
a
request
for
qualification
which,
like
any
other
bid
of
the
city
for
city
services
or
contracts,
the
administrative
hearing
officers
had
to
put
together
this
the
comprehensive
40-plus
page
packet
and
be
interviewed
by
various
stakeholders
in
the
city
in
order
for
them
to
be
in
and
scored
objectively.
G
In
order
for
them
to
be
chosen
to
be
administrative
hearing
officers.
I
believe
that
will
be
before
you
on
the
third
before
the
city
council
on
the
13th.
Okay,
maybe
not
the
13th,
but
it
will
be
coming
before
you
very
soon
to
based
upon
the
recommendations
of
staff.
After
that
scoring
system
is
in
place.
I'm
happy
I'm
standing
at
the
podium,
so
I
can
answer
any
questions
that
the
committee
might
have.
G
R
I
just
a
question,
so
you
said
the
hearing
officer
would
be
appointed
by
the
mayor.
G
The
hearing
officers
are
chosen
through
the
selection
of
under
city
code
is
chapter
1
17,
where
we
contract,
where
we
have
to
select
for
city
services,
whether
it
be
contracts
for
construction
contracts
for
other
services.
That's
how
the
hearing
officers
are
chosen.
So,
ultimately,
the
city
council
will
vote
to
accept
whether
those
hearing
officers
based
on
the
scores
that
they
received
from
their
packets,
that
they
submitted
in
their
interview
process.
R
G
R
Kelly,
are
you
done
yeah,
so
I
do
think
my.
R
I
think
that
this
position,
the
hearing
office
to
maintain
and
I'm
not
even
sure
that
I
necessarily
think
that
we
want
to
have
a
single
person
as
the
gatekeeper,
so
to
speak
with
regard
to
hearing
of
jurisdiction,
doing
the
jurisdictional
hearings
and
passing
these
I
understand
your
point
that
the
ethics
board
can
then
decide
to
take
it
or
leave
it,
but
I
can
imagine
where
that
will
go,
that
generally
it'll
just
become
a
pattern,
so
I,
but
I'm
willing
open
to
entertaining
that
concept,
but
I
think
it
should
be
the
ethics
board
themselves
that
vet
and
choose
and
decide
on
this.
R
I
think
that
we
really
the
most
important
thing
that
you
know
of
all
the
bodies.
This
is
the
one.
This
is
our
checks
and
balances
on
our
government.
It
has
to
be
independent
to
to
the
max.
I
mean
we
have
to
really
seek
that.
So
I
don't
think.
Perhaps
this
is
the
way
to
go,
but
I
think
if
we
can
move
it
to
the
board
of
ethics
to
to
vet
and
interview
and
if
that's
the
direction
that
the
council
would
choose
to
go.
G
So
I
I'm
not
advocating
for
any
other
position.
I
just
want
to
point
out
that,
as
far
as
independence
is
concerned,
the
hearing
officers
aren't
necessarily
residents
of
the
city
of
evanston
and
the
special
counsel
isn't
necessarily
a
resident
of
the
city
of
evans.
They
can
be,
but
they
don't
necessarily
have
to
be,
whereas
the
members
of
the
board
of
ethics
have
to
be
residents
of
the
city
of
evanston
and
most
likely
either
voted
for
or
hopefully
in
order
to
keep
clear
of
conflicts
didn't
contribute
to
any
of
your
campaigns.
G
So
it's
a
small,
it's
a
small
city,
and
so
there's
always
going
to
be
that
you
know
sort
of
short
connection.
L
I'm
sorry
thank
you.
Councilmember
reed,
yes,.
C
To
a
number
of
points,
it
was
my
point
of
order
or
point
of
information
originally
with
hearing
officer
selection.
It's
just
for
clarity
for
everyone
in
the
public
and
for
my
colleague
from
the
first
ward,
when
you
say
that
staff
brings
forward
the
hearing
officers.
It's
not
like
we're
and
please
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
it's
not
as
if
we're
brought
a
list
of
hearing
officers.
G
And
no
in
in
theory,
there's
a
request
for
qualification
packet
that
goes
out
and
there
are
a
multitude
of
submissions
made
in
this
particular
instance.
There
were
not
a
lot
of
submissions,
but
there
are
a
multitude
of
submissions
that
are
made
and
those
packets
are
evaluated
and
scored
by
staff
and
then
those
I
believe
we
wanted
to
choose
between
two
and
three,
so
the
two
and
three
highest
scoring
will
be
brought
to
city
council.
C
Right,
okay,
so
staff
selects
and
then
council
just
approves
based
on
staff
selections
just
for
clarity.
Another
point
that
you
raised
was
you
know
this
degree
of
separation
and
it
was
really
getting
to
the
selection
manner
of
of
members.
I
really
think
this
is
something
that
needs
to
go.
We
we
discussed
it
before
that
needs
to
go
to
a
subcommittee
and
that
needs
to
have
citizen
involvement
right.
C
As
you
pointed
out,
this
is
an
ordinance
that
sets
the
ethical
standards
for
our
entire
city,
whether
it's
the
elected
officials,
city
staff,
directors,
the
whole
nine
yards.
Our
police
officers
are
even
subject
to
this,
so
it's
important
that
that
ethical
standard
for
our
city
is
is:
has
citizens
strong
citizen
input?
I
can
think
of
folks
who
used
to
serve
on
the
ethics
board,
who
may
be
interested
in
helping
in
in
that
process?
C
Other
citizens-
I
you
know-
and
so
I
think
that
we
really
need
to
to
fully
flesh
this
out.
We
need
to
look
at
selection.
We
need
to
get
creative
about
how
we
select
members
for
this.
You
know
back
to
the
hearing
officer
thing.
You
know
you
mentioned
the
the
the
degrees
of
separation
and
yes,
there
could
be
an
interest
with
that
again,
I
I
got
to
that.
Maybe
change
in
the
selection
manner,
but
with
a
hearing
officer
rather
than
just
hey.
C
I
happen
to
have
a
friend
who
is
a
friend
with
you
know,
mayor
biss
or
someone
else,
there's
a
financial
interest.
This
is
then
a
job
for
them
and
a
financial
interest,
at
least
in
my
own
experience,
is
a
bit
more,
can
be
a
bit
more
compelling
than
just
a
friend
of
a
friend
who
knows
something.
As
I
said,
this
needs
community
input,
the
last
the
ordinance
that
is
on
the
books
now
went
through
a
committee
process.
C
C
The
previous
ordinance
had
the
ethics
board
weigh
in,
although
you
know
folks
can
say
how
meaningful
that
was,
but
it
you
know
it
happened,
and
there
was
a
record
of
you
know
some
of
the
changes
that
the
ethics
board
wanted,
and
I
think
we
really
need
to
go
through
a
more
robust
process
with
something
of
this
import.
G
So
I
just
want
to
let
the
committee
know
that
we
currently
have
pending
two
ethics
complaints
with
no
ethics
board
in
place.
I
have
at
least
three
allegations
of
official
misconduct
under
1-10-5c
that
have
no
place
to
go,
and
I
believe
that
there
was
another
complaint
that
was
filed
at
the
end
of
2020
that
I
have
to
track
down
as
I've
made
aware
of
with
no
board
of
ethics
in
place.
G
So
the
longer
we
take
to
get
this
right,
the
harder
it
becomes
for
us
to
address
the
concerns
of
our
residents
and
our
employees
that
have
issues
with
our
ongoing
ethics
ordinance.
There
has
been
a
tremendous
amount
of
public
input
on
this
issue.
There's
been
public
comment
on
it
and
I've
taken
notes
from
each
of
them
in
order
to
address
them
in
the
ordinance.
Every
time
we've
had
public
comment
and
every
time
we've
had
input
from
the
committee,
it
has
gone
back
into
the
ordinance.
G
So
I
certainly
understand
if
this
committee
wants
to
continue
to
work
on
this,
but
I
wanted
to
make
you
aware
that
there
are
outstanding
issues
that
need
to
be
addressed
and
under
our
current
system.
If,
if
the
mayor
was
forced
to
appoint
an
ethics
board
under
our
current
system,
the
residents
that
were
chosen
for
the
board
would
be
advised
by
a
special
counsel
and
those
residents
that
filed
those
ethics.
L
All
right-
and
I
I
did
want
to
just
ask
one
question,
and
then
I
have
council,
member
fleming,
kellyanne
reed,
mr
cummings,
with
respect
to
this
administrative
judge.
This
is
the
same
process
that
we,
these
are
the
same
judges
who
hear
all
of
the
administrative
hearings
that
that
occur
in
this
room
with
respect
to
all
of
our
code
violations
traffic
issues.
A
number
of
these
other
things
and
those
administrative
judges
are
following
a
code
of
conduct
and
an
ethics
code.
I
I
correct
that's.
G
We
currently
have,
I
believe,
two
or
three
right.
G
L
So
it
follows
a
talk
correct,
but
initially
it
it's
it's
no
one
would
necessarily
know
until
you
know
you
don't
choose
your
judge.
The
judge
is,
is
who
whomever
you
appear
before
correct
correct?
Okay,
so
I
I.
I
would
just
like
to
comment
that
I
think
actually,
this
one
of
the
problems
we've
had
with
our
ethics
ordinances,
the
pat
in
the
past,
as
we've
discussed
before,
is
the
problem
that
mr
cummings
was
just
describing
is
that
we
have
conflicts
of
interest.
L
We've
had
ex
parte
contact
ex
parte
contact
for
the
non-lawyers
means
we've
had
those
people
who
brought
complaints
or
who
were
the
complainant
have
contact
with
the
with
the
board
of
ethics.
L
That's
not
permitted
in
a
court
of
law.
That's
not
permitted
in
front
of
our
administrative
hearing
and
this.
This
modification
here
is
an
attempt,
and
I
think
it's
a
good
attempt
to
actually
create
an
arm's
length
process
so
that
we
do
have
fair,
speedy,
effective,
an
effective
process
here
that
does
not
get
bogged
down
in
the
fact
that
we
may
not
have
a
quorum
on
a
board
on
the
board
of
ethics
that
things
do
take
months,
and
it
also
takes
out
the
requirement
that
someone
who
files
an
ethics
complaint
then
has
to
prosecute
it.
L
It's
that's,
not
who's
doing
the
prosecution,
so
I
do
think
that
we
need
to
move
forward
with
this.
I
think
creating
the
three-member
board
does
satisfy
the
issue
of
having
some
kind
of
citizen
participation
in
this
process.
So
I
am
in
favor
of
this
process,
be
having
watched
the
prior
process
and
realized
that
we
needed
something
that
people
could
recognize
as
fair
and
timely.
So
I
think
we
should
move
forward
with
this.
L
G
If
I
can
address
the
quorum
issue
just
very
briefly,
because
it
did
come
up
in
public
comments
and
I
went
over
and
got
my
notes
with
a
three-member
board,
I
certainly
understand
the
desire
to
have
more
people,
but
with
the
three-member
boards
you
only
need
two
to
have
a
quorum
as
opposed
to
with
a
five-member.
You
need
three,
a
seven
member
you
need
and.
L
That
was
that
was
a
continuous
problem
in
the
last
term
was
achieving
a
quorum
for
the
board
of
ethics,
because
these
are
citizen
volunteers
who,
don't
necessarily
you
know,
have
real
who
have
real
work,
lives
so
council.
Member
fleming,
thank
you.
J
So,
thank
you
nick
for
amending
this.
I
know
that
this
is,
I
don't
know
what
version
we're
on
and
the
first
one
I
think,
didn't
involve
any
citizens,
and
so
I
appreciate
that
you
did
amend
this
assuming,
like
you
said,
based
on
public
comment,
I
realize
that
this
is
not
yeah.
We
are
not
going
to
ever
find
consensus,
probably
as
a
group
and
as
councilmember
burns
said
earlier,
some
things
are
more
important
than
other
people.
I
mean
to
people
than
others.
I
have
not
been
to
ethics
committee.
J
I
do
know
to
clarify
your
point,
though
ottoman.
When
we
have
also
had
you
know
you,
you
talked
about
citizens
contacting
board
of
ethics
members,
we've
had
council
members
contacting
board
of
ethics
members,
so
I
don't
want
to
put
the
onus
just
on
citizens,
because
we've
we've
had
counselors.
J
Do
that
and
the
last
gentleman
that
I
appointed,
who
was
going
to
serve
this
kind
of
very
short
term,
to
hear
this
one
last
case
very
nice
man
will
probably
never
do
it
again
if
he
talked
any
his
neighbors
would
never
recommend
it
as
an
experience
for
another
citizen
to
go
through.
So,
even
though
we
want
to
make
this,
you
know,
I
think,
you're
right,
the
six
degrees
of
separation.
We
want
to
make
this
robust
and
all
that
stuff.
J
We
also
have
to
realize
this
is
a
volunteer
position
that
we
might
not
have
every
bus
number
a
robust
number
of
citizens
who
want
to
participate
in.
I
imagine
we'll
have
some
of
the
people
who
come
and
and
are
concerned
and
are
interested
in
this
topic,
but
you
know
it
just
might
not
be
that
we
have
a
plethora
of
people
who
want
to
serve
on
this
committee.
That
said,
you
know
I
you
know,
I
think
we
could
mull
it
over
again
and
again.
I
am
concerned
about
people
who
have
put
an
ethics
complaint.
J
J
I
don't
know
what
a
timeline
on
hearing
these
things
are,
but
you
know
I
am
concerned
that
people
have
put
in
ethics
boards
and
I
mean
ethics
complaints
and
we
are
not
hearing
them
which
we
should
so
I
don't
think
this
is
perfect
necessarily,
but
I
also
realize
nothing
is
permanent,
and
so
I'm
happy
to
move
forward
with
this,
and
we
can
you
know
after
it
gets
moving,
we
can
review
it
and
revise
it.
My
other,
just
I
guess
public
statement
about
the
ethics
board
is
I
you
know.
J
I
would
caution,
obviously,
when
none
of
us
do
stuff
that
people
are
going
to
bring
us
to
the
ethics
board
for
that's
number
one
and
if
we
are
brought
before
the
ethics
board.
This
was
my
concern.
Last
time
was
that
there
was
like
a
call
to
come
and
support
or
come
and
view
the
ethics
thing
right
kind
of
in
support
of
other
council
members,
and
I
think
that
that
is
highly
inappropriate.
J
This
is
not
a
club
for
me,
so
I
I
will
just
say
that
you
know
for
the
record:
whatever
happens
with
ethics
board,
I
I
would
hope
that
we
understand
that
citizens
have
a
right
to
file
whatever
it
is,
even
if
we
think
it's
frivolous
and
it
should
go
through
an
open
process,
but
we
should
not
kind
of
team
up
and
all
go
in
support
of
each
other.
That
is
not
our
role,
and
we
should
not
do
that
because
we
don't
want
to
kind
of
show
any
kind
of
solidarity
to
one
another.
G
Can
I
address
also
the
qualifications
of
the
board
members
that
was
also
raised
during
public
comment?
It's
not
required
to
have
a
legal
background.
It's
just
preferred,
but
the
demonstrated
abilities,
critical
thinking,
analytical
skills
is
probably
more
important
and
that
is
written
in
the
corrected
ordinance
as
a
qualification
for
the
members
of
the
board.
J
And
can
I
just
to
ottoman
reid's
point,
so
this
was
an
rfp
which
we
just
did
in
our
alternatives
to
901
process.
So
it's
an
rfp
apparently
it's
closed,
but
had
it
not
been
closed,
we
could
have
also
sent
it
to
whoever
we
thought
should
apply
for
the
position
and
when
they
do
come
to
us.
J
I
can't
remember
the
last
time
I
looked
at
one,
but
we
could
say
yes
or
no.
We
can
also,
I
believe,
ask
for
all
the
people
who
applied
whether
they
made
the
top
scoring
or
not.
So
we
have
a
full
list
of
who
applied
and
if
we
don't
like
the
three
that
are
brought
to
us,
we
could
you
know.
Definitely
it's
in
our
purview
to
ask
staff
to
go
back
and
you
know
do
whatever
we
evaluate
put
open
the
rfp
again.
We've
done
that
before
when
we
haven't
had
kind
of
qualified
candidates
answer
rfps.
J
So
just
because
staff
is
doing
kind
of
that
initial
scoring
doesn't
mean
we
have
to
go
with
who
staff
brings
us.
I
mean
we
have
to
get
somebody
because
we
do
need
an
ethics
board,
but
and
as
he
said,
we
don't
have
a
plethora
of
people,
so
it
might
be
that
they
only
bring
us
two
because
only
two
applied.
I
have
no
idea.
L
Well,
and
also
that's
a
good
point
council
member
fleming-
I
I
I
we
have
had
in
times
past
times
when
our
staff
has
come
to
us
and
said
that
no
one
who
applied
for
a
particular
contract
qualified
and
that
that
we
had
to
go
back
out
again.
So
that's
not!
That
is
not
unheard
of
so
alderman
ravel
had
her
light
on
it.
She
has
not
spoken
yet
so
I'm
calling
on
her
next,
then
I'm
going
to
call
on
kelly
and
reed.
O
Well,
just
real
briefly,
I
mean
this.
We
have
been
working
on
this
massive
revision
to
the
ethics
ordinance
for
months
and
months
and
months,
and
I
think
staff
has
been
very
responsive
listening
to
comments
from
us
here
on
the
diocese
as
well
as
from
the
public.
O
I
was
reluctantly
ready
to
vote
for
the
last
version,
but
I
like
this
version
much
better
now
that
it
does
have,
does
have
a
citizen
board
of
ethics
with
a
role
in
the
process.
So
I
I
think
it's
time
for
us
to
to
approve
this,
and
you
know
get
our
ethics
process
up
and
running,
because
we
do
have
all
these
issues
that
are
just
waiting
to
be
resolved.
R
Councilmember
kelly,
so
I
mean
we
can
get
our
ethics
process
up
and
running
now
I
mean,
let's
be
clear,
like
there's
nothing,
that's
stopping
us
right
now
I
mean
meribus
has
to
appoint
members
and
then
we
can
we
can
roll
forward.
I
feel
this
is
again
there's
elements
of
this
that
I
think
are
are
great
and
an
improvement.
So
I'm
thank
you
for
that.
I
do
think
you
know
this
sort
of
the
gatekeeper
position.
G
O
G
The
special
counsel,
that's
appointed
by
the
mayor
and
approved
by
city
council-
that's
essentially
an
outside
lawyer
that
is
hired
to
prosecute
and
investigate
ethics.
Complaints
as
well
as,
if
I'm,
if
I
go
back
to
the
duties,
assigned
to
special
counsel
in
the
revision
recommendation
to
the
city
to
the
mayor,
the
city,
manager
and
city
council
policies
and
methods
for
eliminations
of
inefficiencies
and
waste
and
resources,
and
the
prevention
of
misconduct
would
also
fall
under
the
rubric
of
this
particular
special
counsel.
G
R
Yeah
so
and
and
then
the
administrative
hearing
officers
would.
R
So
right
so
I
have,
I
feel,
like
that's,
not
serious
enough.
I
think
that
in
chicago
they
have
the
funds,
as
you
pointed
out,
it's
a
large
department
where
they're
fully
fund,
you
know
staffing
people
full
time
who
are
specialists
in
this
area
and
I
feel
like
we're
really
minimizing
the
importance
of
ethics
by
rel.
By
by
having
this
reside
with
hearing
officers,
administrative
hearing
officers,
I
think
it
really
is
important.
We
can
start
hearing.
R
I
think
it
would
be
great
right
now
to
get
people
appointed
and
to
begin
hearing
complaints
now
and
to
have
a
subcommittee
where
we
can
convene.
You
know,
take
every
all
the
great
work
you've
done
and
convene
experts
so
that
the
public
has
they've
only
participated
in
that
they've
come
to
public
comment.
Council,
they
haven't
participated
in
in
meetings
with
the
new
council
around
you
know
a
subcommittee
just
focused
on
ethics,
and
I
think
it's.
R
It
is
important
that
we
convene
with
experts
and
that
we
get
this
right
and
that
we
don't
rush
through
this,
because,
because
we're
in
the
process
of
voting
on
staff's
recommendation,
we
have
we
can
appoint
a
board
and
start
right
now,
and
I
think
also
you
know.
I
think
I
I
think
that
that
process
is
very
important,
that
we
do
have
committee
meetings
focused
on
how
should
a
an
ethics
program
look
for
our
city
and
not
feel
like.
We
have
to
rush
through
this
because
we
have
to
vote.
R
You
know
on
staff's
proposal
and
again
I
think
there
are
elements
in
that
that
we
should
absolutely
be
looking
at
and
considering,
but
I
don't
think
we're
doing
this
the
right
way
now.
If
we
move
forward
with
having
hearing
officers
who
are
hearing,
you
know
things
about
parking
tickets
and
I
don't
know
what
else
deciding
on
ethics.
I
think
we're
just
not
giving
it
the
due
seriousness
that
it
that
are
that
it
deserves
all
right.
G
And
so
far,
that's
concerned
sherwin
we're
just
trying
to
be
efficient
with
the
use
of
our
hearing
officers.
We
certainly
could
have
separate
hearing
officers
it's
just
for
ethics
complaints,
which
is
what
the
city
of
chicago
to
your
point
does.
I
just
don't
know
if
we
have
the
finances.
R
That
we
don't
that's
why
I
think
we
need
to
stop.
I
think
we
should
have
a
subcommittee.
I
think
we
should
begin
right
away
hearing
and
the
other
benefit
is.
If
we
begin
and
meribus
appoints
members,
then
we
can
look
at
and
discuss
and
see
what's
going
right
and
wrong
and
really
get
it
right,
as
opposed
to
as
opposed
to
taking
a
shot
at
this
right
now,
because
we're
feeling
rushed.
R
L
My
the
last
speaker,
the
last
council
member
I
have
here,
is
reed
and
I
think
we
should
this
has
been
moved
and
seconded.
So
then
I
think
we
should
vote
so
councilmember.
C
Reed
yeah
there
there
are
a
number
of
things
that
I
think
need
to
be
changed
with
this.
Just
one
clarification
council
cummings
under
our
current
code,
since
there
is
no
board
of
ethics
now
under
one
four
two
code
violations
and
citations
could
could
these
matters
not
go
before
an
administrative
judge
now
and
while
you're
looking
into
that,
I
I
will
say
to
to
my
colleagues
here
that
I
I
think
this
needs
certainly
more
of
an
actual
public
process
akin
to
the
ordinance
that
is
on
the
books.
C
Now
we
just
passed
the
current
ordinance
2019.
Maybe
that
sounds
like
2018
or
2019
is
when
we
passed
the
ordinance.
That's
on
the
books
now,
and
I
mean
we
have
some
new
members,
but
many
of
the
members
who
are
still
here,
you
voted
for
that
it
was
suffice.
Then
I
think
we
can
operate
with
that
version
until
we
come
back
with
a
better
version
that
is
both
improved
and
also
addresses.
C
You
know
the
concerns
that
residents
raised
the
concerns
that
myself
and
other
council
members
have.
If
you
know
I'd
love
to
see
a
subcommittee
created,
if
not
a
subcommittee,
I
think
we
need
to
do
some
kind
of
intentional
outreach
specifically
about
this
to
get
meaningful
input
from
residents
who
care
about
this
and
again
when
it
comes
to
the
selection
manner,
we
can
get
creative.
We
just
need
more
time
for
that,
I'm
interested
in
the
subcommittee,
if
not
the
subcommittee,
then
at
least
holding
this
a
bit
but
council
cummings.
G
Certainly,
there's
no
body
in
the
city
body
in
terms
of
entity
that
can
issue
a
code
violation
for
ethics,
that
right
now
under
our
city
code,
that
complaint
is
lodged
a
certain
way.
G
G
What
I'm
saying
to
you
is
it's
not
as
if
health
and
human
services
or
the
code,
the
building
standards,
can
issue
a
ticket
for
a
violation
of
code
of
ethics
right
now.
The
way
that
the
city
code
determines
whether
there's
a
complaint
is
there's
a
process
already
in
place,
and
it
has
to
be
a
formal
complaint
filed
for
a
code
of
ethics,
so
142
wouldn't
necessarily
apply
because
there's
no
one
to
issue
a
citation
which
is
what
142
talks
about.
G
Additionally,
I
don't
know
if
it's
appropriate
if
there
is
a
member
of
the
body
who
is
currently
suing
the
city
for
violating
their
certain
rights
under
the
ethics
code,
which
is
actually
happening
right
now
under
the
current
ethics
code,
which
is
why
it
needs
to
be
revised
because
there
are
issues
with
the
current
ethics
code.
So
there
are.
There
is
a
member
of
this
body
who
is
currently
a
plaintiff
in
one
of
those
cases
that
I
have
to
defend
on
behalf
of
the
city.
G
L
That
that
is
what
I
think
we
should
do.
I
I
think
there
is
a
motion
on
the
floor.
It's
been
seconded,
I
believe
we
should
call
the
role
ms
franz
elder.
L
Cummings
I
apologize
councilmember
reed.
C
So
then
I
I
make
a
motion
to
hold
this
yeah.
It
seems.
C
I
mean
so
we
determined
a
while
ago
that
the
rules
for
council
do
not
apply.
You
specifically
said
the
rules
for
council
do
not
apply
to
the
to
the
committees
and
thereby
the
rule
that
you're
referring
to
that
it
can
only
be
held
once
is
a
council
rule
and
so
thereby
does
not
apply,
and
I
have
motion
to
hold
this.
C
G
C
Excuse
well
point
of
clarification
because
any
time
emotion,
a
hold
is
made.
There's
a
motion
on
the
floor.
You
have
to
hold.
There
has
to
be
a
motion
on
the
floor
in
order
to
hold
something.
G
The
appropriate
motion
would
be
to
postpone
indefinitely,
to
amend,
to
commit
to
postpone
to
limit
previous
question
or
lay
on
the
table.
Mr
reed,
you
can
make
one
of
those
secondary
emotions,
council
member
read
that
would
not
be
appropriate
motion
to
hold
it,
so
you
can
make
another
substantial
motion.
L
C
Then
I
motion
to
postpone
indefinitely
well:
no
because
the
no
here's,
the
key
here's,
the
difference,
because
the
key
is
a
motion
to
hold
only
requires
a
second,
it
doesn't
take
a
vote.
There's
any
other
kind
of
motion
takes
a
vote.
So
a
motion
to
hold
a
specific
motion
demotion
is
completely
within
order.
L
Council,
member
reid,
I
am
required
to
follow
the
corporation
council's
advice
to
this
council
council
member
corporation
council.
Cummings
has
advised
you
of
the
right
steps
to
take
in
order
to
achieve
the
action
you
want
to
achieve,
but
moving
to
hold
is
not
one
of
them.
G
You
just
stated
a
motion
to
hold
is
specific
to
city
council
rules,
and
you
said
city
council
rules
don't
apply
to
this
committee.
So
therefore
we
follow
robert's
rules
of
order.
A
motion
to
hold
is
not
appropriate
under
robert's
rules
of
order.
I've,
given
you
the
motions,
the
subsidiary
emotions
that
are
available
under
robert's
rules.
You
can
make
one
of
those
okay.
C
A
motion
to
send
this
to
a
motion
that
we
have
this
come
back
with
a
proposal
for
a
subcommittee
that
will
look
in
this.
That
will
include
both
council
members
and
residents,
who
are
willing
and
desirous
to
serve
to
help
us
draft
a
good
ordinance
to
replace
the
current
one.
C
That
is
a
comma,
a
motion
to
to
commit
it
to
the
next
agenda.
With
with
the
subcommittee
proposal.
E
R
Okay,
well,
I
just
want
to
amend
the
amendment
that
we
that
we
proceed
with
with
appointment
to
the
current
ethics
board,
a
current
status
that
we
have
right
now
for
the
ethics
board
and
proceed
to
form
a
committee
to
a
subcommittee
of
the
rules
committee.
R
C
My
motion
is
to
defer
this
to
the
next
rules
committee
meeting
and
have
us
develop
a
plan
to
have
a
subcommittee
look
at
this.
As
far
as
what
your
point
was
about
the
ordinance
that
the
current
ethics
law
exists.
So
there
wouldn't
need
to
be
a
motion
to
say.
L
I'll
second,
that
corporation
council
comings
was
that
motion
in
order.
G
It's
nothing
it's
no
different
than
the
motion
to
hold,
so
I
don't
believe
that
it
is
the
motion
to
commit
a
referral
would
be
to
send
it
to
a
different
committee,
and
I
thought
that's
where
he
was
going,
but
that
committee
doesn't
yet
exist.
So
his
other
options
are
to
postpone,
definitely
or
to
lay
it
on
the
table,
which
would
be
until
the
end
of
this
meeting,
and
he
has
not
made
that
motion.
G
J
L
L
This
motion
is
not
in
order,
according
to
our
corporation
council,
which
means
we
go
back
to
the
original
motion
to
approve
the
the
amending
of
the
title,
1
chapter
10,
which
is
what
we
have
before
us.
E
L
We're
voting
on
the
original
motion,
which
is
to
approve
the
the
ordinance
that
is
before
us.
Okay,
no.
R
N
Q
C
Q
I
would
like
to
see
the
committee
created
though
I
just
want
to
be
clear
on
that,
so
I
don't
know
how
we
do
that,
but
I
think,
if
there's
an
interest
in
people
to
serve
on
that
committee,
you
know
I
certainly
would
be
happy
to
do
it.
But
I
would
like
to
see
the
committee
correct.
L
Council
member
burns,
I'm
advised
that
that
should
be
in
the
form
of
a
referral
to
the
city
council.
Okay,
all
right!
Thank
you.
Okay,
I'm
moving
on
to
r7.
L
J
Update
on
discussion
for
referral
from
the
referrals
committee
to
the
rules
committee
luke,
can
you
put
up
so
I
sent
earlier
and
it
wasn't
in
the
packet?
Sorry,
just
a
quick
flow
chart
of
how
the
referrals
committee
is
supposed
to
be
working
so
luke.
If
you
can
throw
that
up
on
the
board,
then
I
can
go
over
real.
Quick
to
your
last
point,
though-
and
I
can
discuss
this
later-
but
about
council
member
burns
requests
going
to
referral
to
city
council.
That
is
part
of
the
issue
that
we're
having.
J
J
That
goes
into
a
referral
tracker,
which
is
essentially
a
spreadsheet
sorry
about
that
they
just
kind
of
list
all
the
referrals
the
referral
committee
meets
every
two
weeks.
We
go
over
the
spreadsheet.
We
use
kind
of
a
scoring
criteria
that
was
made
that
I'm
not
sure
if
that
was
in
the
packet,
but
apologies
that
we
we
can
get
that
to
the
amended
packet.
So
it
is
online
it
it's
actually
online.
J
Now
on
the
referrals
committee
website,
but
we'll
also
add
these
two
things
to
the
notes:
we
use
that
it's
a
very
public
meeting
myself,
council,
member
ravel
and
mayor
biss.
We
score
them
based
on
things
like
time,
sensitivity,
how
much
staff
time
is
it
going
to
take
to
work
on
the
issue,
how
much
community
input
might
be
needed
so
on
and
so
forth?
J
J
I
will
just
say
this
is
where
we
have
been
hitting
kind
of
the
wall,
because,
aside
from,
I
think
at
this
point,
a
couple
of
random
items
and
then
hsc
items
really.
Nothing
has
been
put
on
committee
agendas.
So
when
we
started
this
process,
I
think
our
first
meeting
maybe
was
in
july.
If
I'm
correct,
there
were
items
on
the
city
manager
had
this
kind
of
track
reform.
There
were
items
on
there
from
that
had
been
referred
back
in
may,
so
we
were
already
kind
of
working
a
little
bit
behind.
J
J
Sometimes
things
appear
that
I'm
not
aware
of,
and
so
in
my
you
know,
opinion
we
have
two
issues,
one
of
which
some
committee
chairs
take
very
active
role
in
placing
things
on
their
agenda
items.
Others
kind
of
are
fed
things
from
the
city
manager's
office,
and
so
therefore,
these
new
items
that
we're
sending
over
are
not
really
making
it.
In
my
opinion,
in
a
really
time-
sensitive
fashion-
so
I
mean
I'll-
let
my
other
colleagues
chime
in
but
to
your
point
councilmember
burns.
He
made
a
referral
before
about
committee
committee.
J
What
am
I
trying
to
say
making
a
committee?
We
did
not
feel
like
as
a
referral
committee.
That
was
our
you
know.
We
can't
tell
apw,
make
a
committee
and
make
a
subcommittee
right
because
we're
not
serving
on
ap
w
are
not
then
going
to
serve
on
the
committee
and
chair
the
committee,
so
my
understanding
is
subcommittees
have
been
made
by
the
committees
that
they
are
going
to
be
a
subcommittee
of.
So
we've
sent
those
referrals
back
to
council
members.
J
J
So
I
think,
if,
if
there
is
going
to
be
a
committee
made
or
the
desire
for
committee
made
for
ethics
and
that
should
come
out
of
the
referrals
committee-
that's
not
really
a
place
for
us
as
your
peers
and
as
the
referral
committee
to
make
that
decision,
because
we
can't
then
tell
you
all
to
serve
on
that
committee
and
what
to
do
on
that
committee.
So
those
things
we
have
sent
back,
this
has
been
working.
I
mean
it's
had
some
quarks.
J
Obviously
it's
new
for
the
most
part,
people
are
inputting
enough
information
into
the
referral
tracker,
but
that
is
something
I
would
ask
my
peers
also
to
think
about
the
more
information
you
give
us
the
easier
it
is
for
us
to
kind
of
understand
what
your
which
you
would
like
out
of
this
referral,
and
so
we
can
refer
it
on
another
thing,
maybe
for
us
to
think
through,
as
a
committee
is
sending
some
things
off
to
our
other
boards
and
commissions
for
workup,
so
that
we
don't
have
this
backlog
of
things
coming
to
the
standing
committees.
J
However,
council
members
often
want
their
things
coming
directly
to
standing
committees,
which
is
their
purview,
but
then
it
just
kind
of
puts
them
a
cue
with
many
other
things.
So
I
would
defer
to
the
rest
of
the
committee
to
give
input
on
what
kind
of
what's
happening
here.
It
is
definitely
not
our
job
to
be
any
kind
of
gatekeeper,
we're
trying
to
get
things
out.
J
M
Yeah,
thank
you
matter
of
fact
thanks.
Councilmember
fleming,
I
I
of
course
agree
with
all
that
and
have
very
little
to
add.
I
just
I
think
I
I
think.
Actually
it
was
an
incredibly
useful
sort
of
teaching
moment
that
we
had
that
back
and
forth.
M
Just
by
coincidence,
five
minutes
ago,
with
councilmember
burns
about
the
creation
of
a
subcommittee,
I
think
there
is
in
both
directions
a
lack
of
total
clarity
about
what
should
go
to
the
referral
committee
and
what
shouldn't
and
just
to
state
what
I
think
the
three
of
us
have
been
operating
under
consistently
and
what
I
think
is
consistent
with
the
intent
and
the
rule
is
what
we
envision
is
that
if
there's
a
change
in
policy
that
someone
wants
to
see
occur,
whether
that's
a
member
of
city,
council
or
a
staff
member
that
should
come
through
the
referral
committee,
so
that
we
can
help
the
process
of
prioritizing
the
committee
time
and
the
staff
time
and
ensure
both
the
transparent
and
orderly,
orderly
exercise
of
of
the
that
extremely
limited
staff
time,
and
so
that
includes
some
stuff
that
needn't
come
through
us
right.
M
We
don't
we
don't
see
any
reason
to
weigh
in
on
what
committees
are
creating
subcommittees.
To
give
a
perfect
example:
we
don't
we
don't.
We
definitely
don't
see
any
reason
to
weigh
in
on
what
requests
for
information
council
members
might
make
of
staff.
That's
all
sort
of
beyond
beyond
our
purpose,
but
when
it
comes
to
recommended
policy
changes
again,
whether
initiated
by
staff
or
or
elected
officials,
are
we
under
our
understanding
of
our
charges?
M
That's
that's
what
we're
trying
to
be
doing,
and
I
would
just
say
first
of
all,
council
member
fleming
is
right
that
we've
we
have
green
lighted,
some
items
and
we
would
we
would
love
cooperation
from
all
the
relevant
committees
and
commissions
and
boards
and
ensuring
that
greenlighted
items
get
on
agendas
as
quickly
as
possible.
M
Otherwise,
the
whole
thing
is
a
little
bit
pointless,
but
I'd
also
say
that,
notwithstanding
councilmember
fleming's
point
that
I
deeply
agree
with,
which
is
that
yeah
we
we
aren't
here
to
be
a
gay
gatekeeper.
We
are
here
to
make
sure
everything
gets
heard,
there's
a
bunch
of
stuff.
M
We
haven't
greenlighted
because
there's
a
real
backlog
and
so
that
that
backlog
will
only
work
through
that
backlog
if
the
things
that
have
been
authorized
to
move
forward
move
forward
as
quickly
as
possible,
and
so
we
we
hope
that
we
can
work
with
both
committee
chairs
and
staff
to
ensure
that
happens,
and
the
only
other
thing
I
would
say
about
that
is
on
the
on
the
topic
of
there
being
a
a
tremendous
backlog.
M
You
know
many
of
you
have
encountered
have
had
this
experience
of
like
you
make
a
referral,
and
then
one
of
us
calls
you
and
is
like
hey.
Could
we
do
this
another
way?
The
purpose
of
those
calls
is
not
to
slow
things
down.
M
The
purpose
of
this
call
is
to
speed
things
up
because
once
once
something
is
in
this
already
crowded
pipeline,
it's
it's
got
a
long
road
to
hoe,
and
if,
if
we
can
help,
you
leapfrog
that
with
something
that
just
requires
a
conversation
with
staff
or
a
decision
that
can
be
made
without
counsel
weighing
in
we're,
definitely
interested
in
helping
you
with
that.
Just
to
help
manage
the
workflow,
but
also
just
encourage
everybody
to
think
about
that
independently,
as
they're
determining
whether
to
make
referrals,
because
there
is,
there
is
a
big
backlog.
M
O
Well,
I
just
will
I
focused
on
the
the
word
that
mayor
bis
used
frequently
in
his
remarks.
Just
now.
Backlog
I
mean
it.
Is
we've
really
had
a
lot
of
referrals
to
wade
through,
and
so
you
know
we're
gonna
get
there.
It's
it's
just
a
learning
process
for
all
of
us,
and
I
guess
I
would
also
highlight
that
there
are
some
of
the
referrals
that
have
come
to
us
that
truly
a
council
member
could
simply
have
asked
during
a
committee
meetings
to
staff.
L
Okay,
thank
you,
council
member
newsman.
Oh.
C
So
a
number
of
things
I
I
thank
aldermen
ravel,
alderman
fleming
and
mayor
bis
for
their
work
on
the
referrals
committee,
but
there's
a
number
of
things
that
it
seems
like
the
referrals
committee
took
off
in
a
direction
completely
opposite
of
what
we
discussed
and-
and
I
say
that,
because
if
you
read
rule
9.7,
which
creates
and
authorizes
the
referrals
committee,
it
says
the
referrals
committee
mayor
who
serves
as
chair
and
two
council
members.
C
C
What
we
have
before
us
today
is
a
a
scoring
system,
and
I
know
aldermereville
took
quite
a
bit
of
time
with
this
and
I
think
it's
a
good
scoring
system
for
maybe
some
other
purpose.
But
you
know
this
scoring
system
determines
things
like.
Does
it
meet
the
goals
and
priorities
of
the
city,
community
interest,
connection
to
existing
policy,
scope
time
sense,
sensitivity
as
it's
written
in
the
rules.
The
only
job
of
this
committee,
which
I
didn't
agree
with
in
the
first
place,
would
just
be
to
refer
matters
to
a
committee.
C
To
say
this
belongs
in
human
services.
This
belongs
in
whatever
other
committee
and
suggests
as
to
whether
it's
for
introduction
action
or
discussion.
C
Nowhere
does
it
in
our
rules,
say
that
this
committee,
another
word
that
was
used,
was
green
light
and
that
we
that
this
committee
green
lights
anything
the
committee
just
from
what
is
written
in
our
rules
refers
a
matter
to
it
to
a
committee,
and
so
I
think-
and
so
that's
one.
I
think
we
really
need
to
get
understand.
What
is
the
purpose
of
this
committee
and
ensure
that
we're
actually
following
that
purpose?
C
And
if
this
committee
is
meant
to
score
items
and
determine
you
know
which
items
get
prioritized
and
when
things
get
green
lit,
then
let's
be
honest
about
that,
because
that's
what
I
thought
this
committee
was
going
to
do
from
the
beginning:
that's
not
what's
in
the
rules,
but
that's
what
turned
out
that
this
committee
is
doing.
It's
choosing
when
things
are
green,
lit
or
or
or
not,
and
it's
using
a
a
fairly
strange
scoring
system
in
that
and
sorry
ultimate
reveal.
C
But
in
that
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
is
strange
about
is
that
if
there's
higher
community
interest,
the
item
gets
penalized,
which
means
that
it
moves
down
lower
in
you
know.
C
If,
if
you
know
this
goal
is
important,
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
I
think
can
can
be
that
aren't
meeting
the
goals
of
this
committee
and
if
we
need
to
change
what
the
committee
description
is-
and
I
think
we
just
need
to
be
honest
about
that-
and
do
that
and
say
this
committee
is
a
committee
that
prioritizes
items
and
chooses
when
and
they
appear
on
the
agenda
and
thereby
acts
as
an
as
a
gatekeeper.
And
that's
you
know,
that's
what
the
council
wants
to
do.
That's
fine.
C
The
other
thing
is
that
I'm
really
concerned
that
I've
watched
a
few
of
the
earlier
meetings
and
there
are
no
staff
referrals
going
through
this
committee
and
that's
huge.
I
mean
again
we're
saying
that
the
elected
legislative
body
right,
we're
elected
by
residents
to
legislate.
I
mean
that's
very
clear
in
our
rules
and
everything
else
that
that
is
our
power.
That's
where
it
begins
and
ends
that
the
legislative
body
doesn't
has
has
less
rights
and
authority
to
get
legislation
on
an
agenda
than
our
unelected
city
staff.
C
If
we're
going
to
have
this
referrals
committee,
we
darn
sure
better
ensure
that
our
staff
members
are
putting
their
referrals
through
this
committee
as
well
and
that
they
don't
have
rights
that
supersede
the
rights
of
the
legislative
body.
C
So
I
think
we
need
to
really
assess
if
the
referrals
committee
is
doing
what
we
wanted
it
to
do.
It
may
be
doing
that,
but
if
it,
if
it
is
doing
what
we
wanted
to
do,
then
we
need
to
change
the
language
and
the
rules
and
we
need
to
ensure
that
staff
is
putting
its
referrals
through
the
referrals
committee
as
well.
Thank
you.
P
Thank
you,
chairwind.
I
think
I
have.
I
had
a
couple
questions,
one
of
which
I
think
is
answered.
I
just
wanted
to
confirm
that
this
process
could
be
used
to
refer
items
to
any
of
the
various
boards
commissions
and
committees
and
as
council
member
reid,
just
read
in
rule
9.7.
That
is
the
case
and
we
can
use
it
for
referrals
to
the
utilities,
commission
or
the
environment
board,
or
parks
and
recreation,
for
example
great.
P
So
clarifying
that
then
I
just
had
one
question
about
the
the
transparent
and
established
set
of
criteria
or
the
the
proposal
for
that
criteria.
Number
five
was:
does
the
issue
align
with
one
or
more
city
council
goals
or
priorities?
P
I
love
the
concept.
What
are
the
city
council
goals
and
priorities
is
my
follow-up
question,
and
I
know
this
is
a
got,
an
easy
question
to
ask
and
not
super
quick
to
answer.
We
do
have
our
strategic
planning
process
which
we'll
get
an
update
on
it
at
some
point
fairly
soon,
and
that
process
which
will
take
a
year
or
so
will
allow
us
it
will
provide
us
the
direction
we
need
for
that
particular
item.
L
Council
members
rebelling
fleming,
I
don't
know
which
of
the
two
of
you
turned
your
light
on
first,
who
would
like
to
go
first.
Oh.
O
Well
I'll
just
say,
when
I
look
at
that
particular
criterion,
I
I
think
in
my
mind
about
the
previous
council's
goals
and
and
in
terms
of
priorities,
for
example,
I
mean
the
council
for
several
years
has
made
affordable
housing
a
priority.
So
I
you
know
if
it's
so
I
it's
nothing
at
all
rigorous,
and
you
know
eventually,
I
you
know
sooner
rather
than
later.
O
I
hope
we
will
have
our
this
council
will
have
its
strategic
goals
and
we
can,
you
know,
feel
more
confident,
but
just
personally
that's
what
I'm,
using
as
I
use
that.
J
I
would
just
say:
I've
brought
that
up
at
several
meetings
as
well,
because
we
have.
This.
Council
has
not
made
goals,
which
is
a
whole
other
concern
of
mine,
but
but
to
councilmember
reed's
point,
so
the
the
scoring
was
made
to
give
us
something
to
work
off
of
I
mean
frequently
you
have
put
in
five
referrals
at
a
time
and
you
want
all
of
them
or
several
of
them
to
be
for
action
and
introduction
and
to
go
right
to
committee.
J
You've
had
you've
had
a
couple.
Nonetheless,
if
we,
if,
if
that,
is
the
purview
and
we
don't
use
a
scoring
card
and
it's
just
people
put
them
in
this
documentation
and
then
we
send
them
on.
We
still
have
the
same
backup
right
I
mean
we
still
have
if
we're
meeting
and
we
have
15
referrals
and,
as
I
said
when
we
started
meeting,
we
had
things
that
were
in
this
queue
since
may,
and
we
started
meeting
in
july
and
there
was
no
notation
that
said:
hey.
J
This
is
in
the
queue
since
may
staff's
working
on
it
offline
or
xyz.
I
mean
for
council
member
burns
had
several
things
that
we
were
told:
oh
they're
already
working
on
it,
but
we
did
our
due
diligence
and
came
back
to
councilman
burns.
He
says
no
they're,
not
working
on
it
or
they're,
not
working
on
the
way
in
which
I
want
so
then
we've
put
them
forward
if
he
had
to
just
put
that
recommendation
to
staff
and
they
feel
like
in
their
mind
or
whoever
feels
like.
Oh
it's
already
been
worked
on.
J
His
referral
would
have
gone
nowhere,
granted
it's
still
in
the
queue,
but
it
wouldn't
have
gone
anywhere.
So
if
you
would
like
us
or
if
the
council
would
like
us
to
work
under,
you
know
what
you've
laid
out
there,
we
still
have
the
same
problem,
which
is
I'm
essentially
saying:
hey
councilmember
reed
wants.
J
You
know
sidewalk
repairs
paid
for
by
the
city
and
he
wants
it.
You
know
he
thinks
it's
immediate
and
he
wants
it
to
go
to
apnw,
I'm
giving
that
to
the
city,
manager's
office
and
or
abw
chair,
and
you
are
still
waiting
for
them
to
turn
your
thing
out.
If
you
feel
like
that's
faster,
then
you
know
I'll
be
at
the
goal
of
our
committee.
J
I
think
of
what
I
understood
was
we
were
trying
to
make
sure
everyone
had
access
now,
you're
right,
we
have
continuously
had
a
problem
with
staff,
not
bringing
the
referrals
for
we
have
voiced
this
as
a
committee.
I
think
the
mayor
has
said
it
individually,
but
in
my
opinion
this
is
what
happens
when
you
have
a
staff
that
does
not
feel
like
they
have
to
respond
to
the
elected
body,
which
is,
I
think,
a
problem
in
this
building,
but
nonetheless
we
have
made
this.
We
have
said
this
to
the
city
manager.
J
In
the
meeting
I
mean
we
have,
we
have
done
all
we
can
to
say.
We
need
to
see
what
the
council
and
excuse
me
what
the
staff
is
working
on.
I
mean,
ideally,
it
needs
to
come
through
us,
but
we
need
to
see
what
it
is
so
that
we
know
to
say
hey.
This
thing
is
not
that
important
put
on
this
thing.
We
have
not
been
given
that
opportunity.
H
M
I
mean
I
don't
have
much
to
add.
I
think
those
are
all
great
points
I
I
will
say
respectfully.
I
do
think
that
what
we're
doing
is
consistent
with
the
text
of
the
rules
and
consists
of
what
we
talked
about
when
we
enacted
the
rule.
M
It
says
that
we
will-
and
I
don't
have
the
text
in
front
of
me,
but
we
will
make
those
determinations.
Thank
you,
council,
member,
that
shall
based
on
transparent
and
established
set
of
criteria
referred
them
to
board
committee
and
commission,
and
so
what
we're
doing
is
we're
saying
here
is
a
time
that
that
board
committing
commission
is
ready
to
hear
this
item,
and
that
is
the
moment
at
which
we
make
that
we
make
that
referral.
M
I
think
that's
what
we
said
when
we
had
many
conversations,
and
I
think
that's
what
the
rule
says.
I
don't
think
the
rule
anything
different
than
what
we're
doing.
I'm
certainly
happy
to
take
recommendations
about
how
we
ought
to
do
things
differently,
but
but
I
don't
believe
that
we
would
need
to
change
the
rule
to
bring
it
in
compliance.
What
we're
doing,
I
think,
we're
doing
what
the
rule
says.
J
J
I
took
up
one
part.
She
took
up
one
part
because
we
needed
to
work
on
something
right.
We
didn't
want
to
just
say:
well,
I
like
this
person
to
put
their
thing
through.
So
if
you
have
suggestions
on
what
should
be
in
the
criteria
by
any,
you
know,
email
that
to
us,
we
sent
the
criteria
out
long
ago,
so
people
have
not
put
in
concerns,
but
if
you
have
them,
please
let
them
be
known.
L
L
You
were
going
to
figure
out
what
worked
and
didn't
work
and
come
back
to
us,
just
as
you
have
and
told
us
what
your
process
is
and
you've
taken
comments
from
the
the
committee
and
I'm
sure
you'll,
and
I-
and
I
agree
with
you-
councilmember
fleming-
that
if
we,
if
any
of
us
are
dissatisfied
that
we
should
comment
and
or
add
to
your
list
or
come
and
discuss
it
with
you,
so
I
mean
that
we
knew
that
this
was
a
new
committee
and
this
was
going
to
take
a
little
while
and
thank
you
all
for
serving.
L
I
will
say
now.
I
have
two
more
folks
council
member
burns.
You
have
not
spoken
on
this
issue
and
then
council,
member.
Q
Yeah,
I
do
think
we
need
to
so
I
I
do
think
this
referrals
committee
serves
a
really
important
purpose
for
the
sake
of
transparency
and
kind
of
consistency
and
process.
So
I
think
if
we
continue
working
at
it,
we'll
get
it
right
and-
and
I
think
I
believe
it
serves
a
purpose.
I
will
say
that
that
again,
the
current
rule
rules
is
I'm
interpreting
them.
Q
A
criteria
was
to
be
created
to
determine
the
venue,
but
not
win,
not
a
priority
of
when
this
may
appear
on
an
agenda,
and
I
think
the
criteria
that
was
created
has
is
to
determine
venue
maybe,
but
certainly
to
determine
when
and
I'm
fine
with
it.
I
just
think
we
need
to
make
sure.
That's
in
you
know
ordinance.
This
is
that's
encode.
Can
you.
J
J
We
are
calling
like
hey.
We
sent
this
thing
over
last
month.
Is
it
on
the
agenda?
Where
is
it
and
the
the
response
is
varied?
So
we
need
some
participation
from
committee
chairs
as
well,
because
they
are
the
chairs
who
are
then
putting
the
things
on
the
agenda.
So
even
if
we
say
hey,
this
should
have
gone
up
two
months
ago.
We
don't
always
get
the
response
like
hey,
I'm
on
it.
Q
And
again,
this
this
comment
is
more
so
for
clarity
for
future
councils
right
because
they're,
not
here
now
and
so
they're
going
to
be
looking
at
the
code
and
trying
to
interpret
it
and
execute
it
in
the
way
they
understand
it.
So
I
think
just
for
clarity
and
code.
We
just
need
to
clearly
state
that
this
referrals
committee-
if
that's
something
we
choose
to
do-
is
determining
venue
right
through
this
criteria,
but
also
creating
a
priority
around
when
an
agenda.
Q
When
an
item
should
appear
on
their
agenda,
I
also
think
we
need
to
make
it
clear
that
they're
making
a
recommendation
to
the
chair-
that's
how
it's
it's
it's
been
exercised.
I
guess
that's
how
it's
happening.
The
chair
still
has
that
that
kind
of
prime
authorities,
but
we
just
again
need
to
put
it
in
code,
so
it's
really
clear
that
they
are
making
making
recommendations
to
the
chair.
Q
We
probably
should
ask
some
language
on
the
chair's
responsibility,
while
we're
here-
and
I
do
agree
with
that-
100-
because
this
this
is
one
of
the
more
important
things
we
do.
The
most
important
thing
we
do
as
councilmember
reid
said.
This
is
a
legislative
body
and
we
can't
start
that
legislative
process
without
getting
things
on
the
agenda.
It's
it's
one
of
the
toughest
questions
to
answer
on
that
on
the
the
the
questionnaire
is
like.
Q
Well,
you
know
great
how
important
well,
it's
all
important,
I
have
not
made
a
referral
that
is
not
important
to
a
large
group
of
people,
no
matter
how
active
and
vocal
they
are
it's
important
and-
and
it's
also
important,
because
we
have
to
get
it
in
the
process
for
it,
and
then
it's
no
way
to
determine
how
long
it's
going
to
take
once
it's
in
the
process
right
things
could
get
held
and
and
and
so
you're
also
trying
to
time
it
and
say
yeah.
Q
If
I
say
right
now
that
this
isn't
as
important.
Now
it's
not
going
to
go
out
for
another
two
months
and
then
once
it
finally
gets
into
the
process.
Who
knows
how
long
that
takes?
So
I
I
think
we
need
to
to
to
think
about
that,
like.
I
think
we
need
to
just
put
stuff
on
the
agenda
ethic
at
different
committees
when
the
space
is
available.
I
I
don't.
I
think
we
need
to.
Q
To
this
little
thing,
I
think
we
need
to
really
do
that
because
you
know
even
now
I
have
you
gave
an
example,
councilmember
fleming,
but
there's
another
example
where
that
wasn't
the
case
where
I
made
a
referral
and
I
think
it
was
around
the
lead,
pipe
replacement,
and
there
was
this
back
and
forth
and
ultimately
it
wasn't
on
an
agenda,
and
you
know
I
was
told
by
staff
that
they
needed
it
through
the
referrals
committee.
So
we
just
we
need
better
communication
between.
You
know,
staff,
referrals
committee,
chair
again.
Q
Everything
every
for
referral
that
I've
made
is
is
is
really
important.
It's
around
property
standards
issues
it's
around
landlord
intended
issues
like
it's
all
important.
It's
all
time
sensitive
and
you
know,
but
I
think
we
we
really
need
to
to
clear
up
the
code
and
make
sure
the
chairs
are
are
placing
things
on
the
agenda
as
they
come
up.
I
have
one
other
thing
I
wanted
to
say.
Q
You
know
another
reason
why
we
need
to
just
place
things
on
agendas
because
often
times
once
it's
on
the
agenda,
then
staff
like
gets
in
motion.
They
they
pay
attention
to
it
and
they're
required
to
develop
answers.
So
now
another
one
of
my
referrals
that
wasn't
placed
on
the
agenda
now
I'm
having
a
have
back
and
forth
emails
between
different
staff
members
about.
Q
Are
we
able
to
do
this
and
then
they
say
well,
we're
not
we'll
have
to
look
into
this
and
then
that
particular
staff
person
is
responsible
for
this
area
of
the
referral,
but
not
this
area.
So
now
I
have
to
juggle
all
of
those
different
conversations
through
email
when
if
it
was
placed
on
an
agenda,
I
could
have
all
those
staff
members
already
ready
right
and
prepared
to
speak
to
the
issue
and
it's
it's
a
way
more
effective
use
of
time.
Q
I
think,
and
as
and
it's
just
easier
on
us
as
council,
but
now
I
have
to
kind
of
sort
through
that
all
so
you
know
I
don't
know
if
we're
going
to
do
it
from
the
floor
or
if
we
need
to
just
put
in
some
provide
feedback
after
the
meeting,
but
I
think
it
serves
an
important
function,
but
we
need
to
correct
the
code
and
then
there's
some
other
adjustments.
I
think
we
need
to
make.
C
Yes,
just
to
close
out
my
comments
I
do
want
to
as
to
the
criteria
just
to
clarify
it.
It
does
not
seem
from
my
reading
of
of
the
of
of
the
rules
to
be
in
compliance.
I
think
again,
as
councilman
byrne
said,
I
think
we
can
put
that
into
the
rules.
C
We
just
have
to
be
honest
about
it
and
I
just
want
to
reiterate:
I
think
your
criteria
is
good,
just
not
if,
when
it
comes
to
determining
the
venue,
this
is
a
very
good
win
criteria,
but
I
don't
think
it
meets
the
the
mark
on
determining
the
venue
which
is
when
we
discussed
it.
I
remember
council
member
burns
brought
up
a
number
of
times.
C
I
think
you
kept
flipping
the
word
but
brought
up
the
win
a
number
of
times
during
that
discussion,
and
we
did
not
make
a
determination
on
the
win
and
this
all
seems
to
focus
on
on
the
when
it
shall
appear
on
an
agenda,
and
then
you
know
just.
Lastly,
to
really
reiterate
this.
C
If
the
committee
was
just
doing
what
is
in
the
rules,
which
is
just
assigning
every
referral
from
council
members
from
the
mayor
from
the
city
manager
to
a
committee
and
just
creating
a
transparent
list
of
those
referrals,
that's
a
huge
step.
C
That
alone
is
a
huge
step
in
that
before
we
didn't
know
what
referrals
were
made
by
staff
until
it
actually
appeared
on
an
agenda-
and
we
didn't
know
you
know
all
the
time
when
a
council
member
made
a
referral
so
just
having
a
transparent
list.
That's
I
don't
know
if
it's
online,
I
think
it's
maybe
linked.
C
We
have
access
to
it
and
having-
and
I
think
it's
online
yeah
exactly
having
this
list
online
of
every
single
referral,
whether
it's
as
I
said,
council
members,
mayor
or
city
staff,
that's
a
big
thing,
and
that
also
just
helps
folks
advocate
to
say,
hey.
I
made
this
referral
here
and
I
see
all
of
these
other
referrals
that
have
been
made
that
are
making
it
onto
agendas
and
allow
folks
to
advocate
for
themselves.
C
As
you
know,
the
legislators
that's
a
part
of
the
job,
and
so
I
think
we
have
to
either
have
to,
as
councilmember
byrne
said,
come
back
and
change
the
language
here
we
have
to
to
set
the
win
and
then
actually
give
the
referrals
committee
a
bit
of
teeth
to
say
that
at
a
certain
point
they
have
the
power
to
overrule
the
chairs
or
chair
or
or
whatever
the
cases
may
be.
C
But
I
think
we
really
have
to
ensure
that
this
board
has
teeth
and
also
ensure
we
define
what
powers
chairs
do
and
do
not
have.
L
Okay,
thank
you.
I
just
want
to
remind
everyone
that
human
services
was
supposed
to
start
at
seven
o'clock,
so
council,
member
kelly,
did
you
want
to
add
to
this.
R
M
So
initially,
when
I
was
looking
at
the
spreadsheet
and
seeing
like
a
million
referrals
from
council
members
and
none
from
staff-
and
you
know
we
all-
I
think-
have
sort
of
prominent
memories
in
our
mind
of
specific
instances
where
the
staff
initiated
policy
change
made
its
way
onto
an
agenda.
So
that
was
that
was.
M
Noteworthy
to
me,
but
then
I
actually
started
checking
and
I
have
not
seen
staff
initiated
policy
changes
appear
on
our
committee
agendas,
since
the
referrals
committee
actually
got
up
and
running.
So
if
kelly
wants
to
weigh
in
on
that,
you
know,
I
I
think
I
think
it's
real.
This
is
a
critical
part.
M
I
think
councilmember
reads
right
on
the
money
that
if
we
have
ultimately
a
two-track
system
or
the
where
there's
a
fast
track
for
staff
and
a
slow
track
for
elected
officials,
that's
untenable,
but
I
haven't
actually
seen
that
there
are
staff
initiated
policy
changes
that
are
circumventing
the
referrals
process.
So
kyle,
I
don't
know
if
you
have
thoughts.
B
No
most
of
what
well
all
of
what
goes
on
the
agenda
by
staff
is
usually
transactional,
based
I'll
call
it
contract
related,
or
you
know,
bills
list
those
types
of
things
just
to
keep
the
function
of
the
city
government
moving
any
policy
related
issues
are
always
going
through
a
council
member.
M
That's
not
always
been
the
case.
I
mean
like
the
the
famous
not
to
not
to
beat
the
poor
dead
horse,
but
the
famous
example
might
be
the
plantings
and
parkways
issue
the
the
plantings
and
parking
parkways
issue,
and-
and
I'm
not
complaining,
I
mean
that
predated
this
process.
There
was
a
different
system
in
place,
then,
so
historically,
it
has
been
the
case
appropriately.
That
staff,
who
are
experts
on
a
variety
of
subjects,
would
propose
policy
changes.
M
C
Of
point
of
information
just
to
clarify
a
point:
maybe
you
work
hard,
but
one
thing
that
you
you
serve
just
on
council
and
rules,
but
if,
as
all
of
us
who
serve
on
the
various
committees
would
be
familiar
with,
is
that
you
know
things
go
to
committees
before
they
go
to
council,
and
so
there
are
plenty
of
things
on
you
know.
C
I
serve
on
all
of
the
various
committees
that
I
serve
on
that
have
appeared
on
those
committee
agendas
without
going
through
the
referrals
committee
and
they
haven't
made
their
way
to
council,
yet
a
number
of
many
of
them,
but
they
have
appeared
on
a
committee
agenda,
whether
it's
for
discussion
for
introduction,
for
some
other
purpose
and
and
so
and
the
whole
point
of
this
is
to
not
just
for
the
council
agenda
which
you're
right
there
are
very
few
items
there's,
maybe
only
that
I
can
off
the
top
of
my
head.
C
Think
of
two
or
three
that
have
made
it
onto
a
council
agenda,
but
certainly
in
committee
agendas
items
have
still
been.
You
know,
put
on
the
agenda
by
staff
or
potentially
I
don't
know
if
the
chairperson
has
to
go
through
the
referrals
committee
or
if
they
just
have
the
authority
to
directly
put
something
on
their
agenda.
C
L
Could
I
I,
then
I
have
a
point
of
quali
clarification.
So,
for
instance,
on
the
pnd
committee
we
have
1012
chicago
avenue
is
a
development
in
the
third
ward.
That
is
a
pud
that
will
be
going
into
the
planned
commission
in
the
next
month,
or
so
I
don't
know
the
exact
date.
L
L
I
don't
I
don't
see
that
as
something
that
should
go
through
the
referrals
committee,
because
it's
happening
by
operation
of
government
just
like
the
rule.
The
bills
happen
by
operation
of
government
renewals
of
leases
happen
by
operation
of
government.
So
that's,
okay.
I
understand
that
and
I
I
would
say
that
it's
unusual
to
have
a
staff
initiated
referral.
L
You
know
a
lot
of
times
in
my
experience
when
we
have
discussions
over
over
issues
at
a
committee
that
will
be
having
a
discussion
and
we'll
realize
there
is
a
problem.
We'll
have
a
discussion
with
staff
saying
you
know
this
needs
to
be
changed.
We
need
to.
We
need
to
change
this,
we're
all
recognizing,
there's
an
issue
in
the
ordinance.
L
We
need
to
address
this,
and
so
there
are
times
when
then
in
the
past,
that
will
then
the
staff
will
do
research
and
it
will
come
up
on
an
agenda
because
essentially
the
committee
just
sat
there
and
decided
we
need
to
address
this
issue
staff.
Please
work
on
this
and
then
it
comes
back
at
a
later
committee.
L
E
J
We've
now
had
this
very
long
discussion
about
this
again.
If
people
have
opinions
or
concerns
or
whatever
it
is,
if
they
can
email,
the
referrals
committee
sure
we
are
happy
and
volunteering
us
and
because
we
have
to
end
this
conversation
at
some
point
and
we
can,
we
can,
you
know,
modify
whatever
we
can
make.
J
You
know
our
suggested
edits
to
the
cold
or
people
can
send
those
to
us
and
then
at
our
next
meeting
we
can,
I
mean
we
will
operate
if
people
keep
putting
referrals
and
we
will
operate
under
how
we
have
been,
but
at
the
next
I
guess,
rules
meeting
or
wherever
this
would
need
take
place.
We
can
bring
back
these
suggestions
and
if
people
feel
like,
we
need
to
modify
the
code
or
change
the
criteria
whatever
we
can
do
that.
J
But
I
mean
I'm
not
going
to
remember
all
this,
that
people
are
saying
right
now,
and
so
it's
better
if
you
can
put
in
an
email,
and
even
we
can
tell
you
from
our
suggestions
or
from
what
we've
been
doing
like
these
kind
of
things
should
come
to
referrals
committee.
These
kind
of
things
should
be
discussed
in
your
regular
committee
right,
but
I
do
think
the
point
about
the
staff
issues.
I
just
looked
at
city
management
report.
J
There's
a
couple
things
on
there
that
are
in
committees
that
will
ultimately
be
policy,
changes
that
I
don't
think
came
from
this
board.
So
we
do
and
and
I'm
happy
as
a
referral
committee,
if
we
want
to
make
suggestions
on
how
we
can
interface
with
staff
and
get
those
items
in,
but
I
think
also
I
mean
this.
Maybe
it
makes
more
sense
to
do
that
with
people
sending
us
their
thoughts
and
we
can
yes.
L
So,
council,
member
fleming,
I
agree
with
you
and
I
I
agree,
and
I
think
I
mean
with
all
due
respect.
We
do
need
to
move
on,
so
I
I
would
like
to
end
this
discussion
now,
because
we
have
one
last
item
on
the
agenda
that
we
should
address,
and
then
human
services
does
need
to
move
forward.
This
isn't
fair
to
the
people
who
were
waiting
for
human.
Q
Services
can
we
at
least
direct
counsel,
to
make
the
change
about
about
the
venue
versus
the
win,
because
I've
asked
that
now
several
meetings
and
if
we
at
least
can
get
a
draft
on
making
sure
that
for
the
referrals
committee,
it
clearly
states
that
their
function
is
to
determine
the
venue
so
which
committee,
but
also
to
use
this
criteria
that
they've
developed
to
create
a
priority
of
of
when
it
may
appear
on
the
agenda.
If
we
get.
J
Happy
to
do
that,
but
I
think
if
people
have
concerns
about
the
criteria,
we
should
probably
fix
the
criteria
first,
and
if
people
agree
that
this
is
the
criteria
they
like
and
they
want
to
have
that
be
the
criteria
that
kind
of
you
know
makes
the
suggestion
for
a
win
or
if
people
feel
like
we
shouldn't
be
doing
the
win
and
we're
just
passing
everything
through
we
still
have
the
same.
I
mean
I.
J
Q
My
point
is,
it
is,
if
it's,
the
referrals
committee
recommendation
to
continue
to
use
the
developer
criteria
to
determine
when
then
that
should
be
in
the
code,
and
I
would
like
a
corporation
council
to
come
back
with
some
draft
language
to
do
that
again.
Understanding
that
this
is
important
as
well,
and
that
could
happen
simultaneously.
But
if
we
can
get
some
language
that
just
puts
it
clearly
in
the
code
that
their
function
is
to
do
both.
L
I
understand
so
I
I
think
this
is
something
that
we
do
need
to
talk
about
at
the
rules
committee.
I'm
not
sure
that
all
of
us
agreed
that
that
they
were
going
to
determine
when
I
thought
there,
but
I
am
also
cognizant
of
the
fact
that
there
is
another
standing
committee
that
should
have
been
meeting
for
the
last
hour
and
I
think
that
alderman
fleming
a
council
member
fleming
is
has
made
suggestions
to
all
of
us
about
how
to
improve
the
process.
L
I'm
I
would
like
I'm
happy
to
direct
staff
to
bring
that
back.
I
don't
know
that
directing
them
to
to
to
have
a
when.
Actually
that
means
that
they
have
to
become
the
chair
of
every
single
standing
committee
or
every
single
board
and
commission.
Q
P
Support
council
member
burns's
suggestion,
as
I
understand
it
and
I'll
just
say,
that
the
referrals
committee
appears
to
be
doing
the
job
that
I
thought
we
intended
the
referrals
committee
to
be
doing,
which
is
to
evaluate
referrals,
do
a
triage
based
on
an
established
set
of
criteria
but
triage
into
into
what
high
priority
low
priority
medium
priority
and,
as
I
read
rule
9.7
that
triage
component
or
the
question
of
when
isn't
explicitly
stated,
and
so
I
think,
to
make
our
lives
easier.
We
should
add
some
text
to
9.7
something
along.
P
L
Let's
all
right,
then,
let's
direct
staff
to
do
that
to
come
back
with
some
language
that
we
can
then
discuss
and
make
sure
meets
what
what
councilmember
burns
is.
Your
concerns
are
without.
P
A
L
I'm
gonna
move
us
on
to
r8,
which
is
appointment
of
the
chair
of
the
finance
and
budget
committee
mayor
biss.
M
M
Now
the
committee
needs
a
chair
and
so
rule
5.6.5
says:
special
committees
shall
have
a
chair
appointed
by
the
mayor
with
the
advice
and
consent
of
the
city
council.
This
is
clearly
a
special
committee.
It
says
so
explicitly
in
the
rules,
so
I
read
5.6.5
and
said:
okay,
I
guess
I'm
supposed
to
appoint
a
chair.
M
I
reached
out
to
the
council
members
on
the
committee
and
asked
who
was
interested
in
being
the
chair
and
made
a
judgment
and
and
determined
who
I
would
appoint
chair,
and
then
it
was
pointed
out
to
me
by
somebody
else
that
says
that
5.6.2
says
committees
consisting
of
council
members
and
citizens,
which
report
directly
to
the
council,
shall
have
a
council
member's
chair
appointed
by
the
rules
committee
and
the
person
who
pointed
out
said:
hey,
listen.
M
This
is,
in
fact,
a
committee
consisting
of
council
members
and
citizens
and
reports
directly
to
the
council,
so
shouldn't
that
rule
control-
and
I
just
I
could
read-
I
could
do
a
lot
of
interpretive
stuff
that
pretend
lawyers
like
me
do,
but
the
bottom
line
is
I
just.
I
do
not
want
to
be
involved
in
a
power
grab
here.
I
was
not
making
this
appointment
as
an
effort
to
hold
power
for
myself.
C
P
Right,
I
I
I
believe
the
chair
recognized
me.
I
would
draw
a
parallel
between
the
finance
and
budget
committee
and
the
economic
development
committee,
both
of
which
contain
council
members
and
community
members,
and
it
would
seem
to
me,
therefore,
that
the
finance
and
budget
committee
should
be
guided
by
paragraph
5.6.2,
which
reads
which
reads.
P
Chair
appointed
by
the
rules
committee,
but
that
is,
I
guess
in
contradiction
with
ex
how
the
finance
and
budget
committee
is
is
called
out
in
what
is
it
rule
9.11,
where
it's
called
rule
9.11
refers
to
it
as
a
special
committee,
so
there's
an
inherent
conflict.
C
Thank
you
so
to
that
point.
Yes,
I
I
do
think
this
follows
as
the
person
who
had
the
conversation
with
mr
biss.
I
think
this
does
follow.
Rule
5.,
6.2,
the
reason
we
even
wrote
into
the
language
that
it
was
a
special
committee.
C
If
we
recall
the
discussion
that
we
had
here,
council
member
kelly
was
really
interested
in
it
being
a
standing
committee,
and
we
said
that
standing
committee
is
a
a
term
of
art
and
that
it
means
that
it's
a
committee
just
of
council
members,
but
we
wanted
to
give
it
some
kind
of
standing
at.
C
So
I
think
the
language
special
committee
was
just
thrown
in
because,
and
maybe
our
attorney
or
kelly,
whoever
wants
to
weigh
on
it
on
this,
but
a
special
committee
when
you
think
of
a
special
committee,
a
special
committee
is
a
committee
that
serves
a
special
purpose
for
a
short
term.
It's
not
a
committee
that
exists
in
perpetuity.
C
If
the
finance
and
budget
committee
were
just
to
look
at
the
2022
budget
and
that's
it,
and
that
was
its
role,
then
it
would
be
a
special
committee,
but
since
it
exists
in
perpetuity
it
is
a
it
is
a
committee
not
a
special
one,
that
reports
directly
to
council
and
it
follows
it,
meets
all
the
criteria.
C
The
only
thing
that
separates
it
is,
I
think,
just
our
desire
to
put
some
word
in
that
was
not
standing
into
that
committee
is
my
my
recollection,
so
I
I
do
think
it
should
follow.
As
council
member
nusmus
said,
5.6.2.
O
Well,
I
I
think,
looking
at
rule
nine
point
a
whole
bunch
of
stuff,
I
mean
it
starts
it
very
specifically
talks
about
standing
committees
and
enumerates
them
and
then
there's
it's
a
separate
section.
Nine
nine
point:
nine.
E
O
It
then
says
you
know
here
now:
we're
going
to
have
special
committees,
ad
hoc
and
in
that
section,
is
where
it
details
what
this
budget
finance
and
budget
committee's
going
to
be
doing.
So
it
seems
to
me
that
it's
very
much
a
special
committee
ad
hoc
and
therefore
it
it
would
have
its
chair
appointed
by
the
mayor.
L
Council
member
newsma
wait,
councilmember
reed
did
I
I
already
did
call
you,
I'm
sorry
councilmember
newsma
and
married.
P
We
did
stick
this
in
section
9.11,
which
is
special
committees.
However,
I
will
point
out
that,
for
example,
the
economic
development
committee
is
not
really
referenced
here
in
the
rules
other
than
kind
of
in
passing
in
a
few
other
places,
nor
is
the
the
housing
and
community
development
committee
so
and
we're
handling
this
financial
and
budget
committee,
and
it
has
strong
parallels
the
way
we're
handling.
This
pellet
has
strong
parallels
with
those
two
types
of
committees
which
are
5.6.2
committees,
and
so
that's
it.
P
Although
we
stuck
this
new
committee
in
section
9.11,
you
know,
maybe
that
should
have
been
it's
its
own
section.
M
Did
thank
you,
madam
chair.
You
know,
I
think,
the
in
the
interest
of
try,
seeing
if
there's
an
avenue
for
us
to
wrap
relatively
quickly
and
and
making
this
conversation,
maybe
a
little
bit
less
abstract
I
I
would
be.
I
would
like
to
say
what
my
what
my
intent
was
when
I
thought
perhaps
mistakenly,
that
the
mayor
appoints
the
chair,
and
I
would
say
if
the
will
of
the
rules
committee
is
in
agreement,
what
I
was
going
to
do.
M
Maybe
we
can
just
do
that
and
then
reserve
for
another
time,
a
resolution
of
what
ambiguity
may
exist
in
the
rules,
and
so
what
my
policy
on
this
was
what
my
policy
on
all
chair
positions,
that
I've
had
the
responsibility
of
appointing
during
my
time
as
mayor,
which
is,
I
survey
the
members
of
the
committee
as
regards
who's
interested
and
then
appoint
the
person
with
the
largest
amount
of
seniority,
and
we've
talked
a
lot
about
seniority
earlier
today,
but
I
feel
particularly
in
the
beginning
of
a
term.
M
M
Pardon
me
serve
the
four
first
term
council
members,
as
well
as
the
most
senior
member
of
the
council,
and
because
of
that
one
council
member
wynn
expressed
interest
in
being
the
chair.
It
was
my
determination
to
appoint
her,
and
so
I
would
say
if
the.
If
the
rules
committee
is
in
agreement
with
that
decision,
then
we
can
move
forward
and
resolve
the
ambiguity
some
other
time.
If
the
rules
committee
wants
to
go
a
different
direction,
I
would
you
know
I
would
certainly
hand
over
that
authority.
Happily.
L
R
So
you
know,
I
think,
melissa
you'd
be
a
fine
chair
and
I
just
I'd
want
to
just.
I
assume
this
would
be
like
six
month
rotations
and
then
maybe
at
that
point,
and
also
I'd
like
to
just
throw
it
as
an
you
know,
this
is
something
I'm
very
passionate
about
the
budget
fun.
Is
there
any
possibility
of
like
co-chair,
I'm
not
sharing
anything
I'd.
Love
to
I
mean
is
that
an
option?
Maybe
you
have
co-chairs
for
this
committee.
L
L
C
Yeah,
there's
no
emotion
on
the
floor.
I
I
I'm
sorry
alderman
kelly,
I
I
don't
know
if
I
typically
think
that
co-chairs
is,
I
think
there
is
something
to
just
having
you
know
a
clear
structure,
I'm
happy
to
support
you
as
chair.
Of
course
you
know,
but
you
know,
I
think,
there's
you
know
having
one
chair
makes
sense
is
not
to
cause
confusion,
especially
with
something
as
important
as
this.
I
think
that
that
makes
sense.
C
So
I'm
unclear,
for
this
was
a
matter
that
was
raised
earlier,
although
there
isn't
necessary,
there
is
a
rush
to
get
this.
This
seems
so
I
think
we
can
have
a
vote
on
who
we
want
to
appoint
as
chair.
I
think
we
can
have
you
know
nominee.
If
someone
wants
to
make
a
motion
or
a
nomination,
I
think
that's
an
order.
C
R
I'm
fine
either
way
I
mean,
I
do
think
because
it's
a
new
committee,
it
could
be
helpful
to
have
two,
but
I'm
a
co-chairs,
but
that's
fine,
I'm,
but
I
do
think
I
think
we're
eight
right:
five
council
members
and
three
community
members,
so
I
think
the
a
six
month
rotation
would
make
sense.
It
would
in
principle
I
mean
if
this
were
to
start
at
the
beginning
of
the
term.
Everybody
would
serve
a
term,
so
it
seems
just
I
think,
and
then
I
would
think
going
forward.
P
Six
month,
rotation
sounds
reasonable
to
me.
I
do
appreciate
the
mayor's.
You
know,
expeditious
approach
to
this
question
and
let's
put
a
pause
on
adjusting
our
rules,
we'll
we'll
pick
that
issue
up
at
a
later
date.
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
that
we
ratify
mayor
business,
appointment
of
council
member
wynn
to
chair
the
initial
finance
and
budget
committee.
A
L
All
right
can
we
have
thank
you
all.
Can
we
have
a
roll
call
on
that.
C
L
All
right
by
unanimous
vote,
I
am
becoming
chair
of
finance
and
budget
committee,
so
I
see
no
other
business
and
so
for
the
good
of
the
order.
I
am
going
to
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.
Thank
you
all.
Thank
you.
Staff.