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B
D
Relay
everyone,
I
was
in
the
process
of
asking
Michael
Staley
about
call
types
at
911
receives
and
whether
or
not
he
thought
some
call
types
might
be
better
answered
or
equally
as
well
answered
by
an
unarmed
division
of
the
city.
D
D
F
So
what
I
like
to
do
is
maybe
just
share
some
thoughts
that
I've
had
since
being
part
of
the
process.
So,
as
you
may
or
may
not
know,
I
started
with
Tompkins
County
just
about
a
month
or
two
before
I
I
attended
their
first
meeting
and
something
that
struck
me
right
away
is
that
when
we
were
starting
looking
at
the
poll
types
we're
looking
at
pretty
much
all
the
call
types
as
opposed
to
maybe
looking
at
the
call
types
that
we
routinely
actually
dispatched.
Folks
to
so
I.
F
Maybe
that's
a
place
to
really
begin
because
then
we
could
really
sort
of
pull
out
the
call
types
that
maybe
live
in
our
directory
of
all
types
that
may
be
known
historically
get
used
for
any
number
of
reasons
and
I
remember
at
the
time
thinking
that
there
were
call
types
that
we
don't
historically
even
dispatch
any
emergency
responders
to
simply
because
they
probably
do
fall
into
another
category
that
you
know
and
another
agency
might
respond
or
maybe
take
lead
on
it.
That
isn't
necessarily
a
police
fire
or
EMS.
F
So
that
might
be
something
worth
looking
at
because
then,
if
you
do,
that,
you'll
really
be
able
to
drill
down
on
what
calls
are
typically
being
dispatched
to
law
enforcement
and
whether
or
not
they're
paired
with
another
emergency
service
such
as
fire
and
EMS.
If
you
can
break
apart,
calls
in
a
not
urgent
or
emergent.
That
might
be
a
good
starting
point
when
you
start
thinking
about
alternative
response.
F
I
think
the
Dilemma
that
the
911
dispatcher
might
be
in
is
that
they
sense
any
level
of
urgency
they're
going
to
want
to
send
an
emergency
responder,
typically
because
again
they're
going
to
they're
going
to
be
probably
filtering.
Is
it
urgent
or
emergent?
And
if
it
falls
into
one
of
those
two
categories
they
might
just
by
default,
feel
more
comfortable
sending
law
enforcement.
F
So,
for
example,
if
it's
an
emergency
medical
services
call
and
there's
any
sense
that
the
scene
could
be
unsafe,
they're,
probably
going
to
yield
to
law
enforcement
instructions
as
to
whether
or
not
they
need
to
respond
to
that
call.
Based
on
the
information
that
we
that
we
glean
from
The
Parlor
and
that's
just
one
example
but
I-
think
that
that
might
be
something
worth
doing
going
back,
and
that's
that
stated
that
we
can
help
you
with.
We
can
go
back
and
we
can
pull
the
reports.
We
can
compare
it.
F
You
could
maybe
pick
the
call
types
or
we
can
just
look
at
the
poll
types
and
see
how
many
actual
responses
will
appear
at
a
particular
fault
type
and
then
at
least
you'll
know
what
call
types
are
in
play
and
which
ones
you
can
maybe
completely
remove.
C
C
F
Very
often,
in
fact,
that
is
unfortunately,
a
consequence
of
working
in
9-1-1
Center,
like
in
Iowa.
One
dispatcher
typically
never
really
knows
what
the
outcome
is.
They'll
know
that
the
call
was
eventually
cleared
and
they
might
have
some
disposition,
but
if
it's
like
a
law
enforcement
call,
for
example,
those
dispositions
are
typically
coded
in
their
report,
and
we
know
that
they're
clear,
but
we
don't
necessarily
know
that
the
outcome
was
which
can
sometimes
be
a
challenge
for
a
911
dispatcher.
F
C
So,
and
and
I
appreciate
that
you're
receiving
calls
as
they
come
in
you
dispatch
respondents,
but
in
terms
of
truly
understanding
like
if
there
might
be
any
adjustments
made
in
terms
of
is
the
response,
a
response
that
it
did
it
did
it
Merit
the
level
of
urgency
or
emergent.
You
know
aspects
without
that
that
closure
of
the
conversation
conversation
it's
hard
to
know.
C
You
know
as
we're
asking
you
for
advice,
because
you
don't
get
to
see
on
the
back
side
how
that
turns
out,
and
so
that's
that's
one
element.
I
do
think,
needs
to
be
part
of
the
conversation
as
as
we
think
about
changing
a
process,
we
don't
even
know
really
where
the
the
successes
or
challenges
might
be
in
the
process
itself.
C
You
also
talked
about
the
algorithm
of
questions
that
come
forward.
When
you
have
a
medical
crisis,
do
you
have
other
algorithms
having
to
do
with
from
an
unprofessional
standard
like
what
I
would
think
algorithms
for
a
mental
health
call
algorithms
for
perhaps
a
call
having
to
do
with
someone
either
either
in
an
addiction
crisis
algorithms
having
to
do
with
a
domestic
crisis,
which,
at
least
in
my
experience,
looking
at
the
calls
that
I
see
in
my
community?
C
The
most
frequent
call
is,
for
example,
for
noise
violation,
but
often
that
noise
complaint
turns
into
something
else
entirely
sure
it's
a
noise
complaint.
All
the
caller
knows
is
that
there's
something
very
loud,
it's
kind
of
alarming.
They
make
a
call.
You
know,
depending
on
where
you
are
you're,
going
to
jump
to
certain
assumptions,
but
that
call
is
if
it's
going
to
be
our
party
for
a
domestic
for
somebody
to
bring
you
know
it's
like
it
could
be
a
whole
bunch
of
different
things,
sure
and
so
you're
never
quite
know.
F
Sure
so
often
what
happens
is
when
people
call
911.
They
typically
know
what
services
are
asking
for,
so
they'll
simply
ask
for
that
service.
So
if
it's,
if
it's
a
request
for
a
law
enforcement
officer
to
respond
typically,
that's
what
we'll
do
the
two.
The
two
examples
that
you
gave
with
I
think
was
an
overdose
and
then
once
there
was
a
very
first
one.
F
Right
so
both
of
those
would
actually
eventually
go
through
the
EMD
emergency
medical
dispatch
algorithm
because
those
are
calls
that
are
associated
with
a
medical
emergency.
So
a
call
for
a
mental
health
crisis
call
is
handled
through
the
AMD
system
and
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
try
to
quickly
try
to
determine
what's
the
nature
of
the
emergency
so
that
we
know
what
procedures
to
follow
and
they're,
not
necessarily
as
cut
and
dry,
where
it
can
become
a
little
bit
more
complicated.
F
Is
the
noise
complaint
with
an
unknown
origin
and
why
you
know
is
it?
Is
it
a
noise
complaint
because
it
sounds
like
there's
a
fight
or
is
a
noise
complaint,
because
there's
a
lot
of
music,
a
domestic
violence
situation
is
also
one
that
will
often
have
will
will
if
we
have
a
report
of
a
domestic
event
or
a
domestic
violence,
where
we'll
quickly
try
to
determine
that
start
law
enforcement
to
the
scene,
but
then
also
try
to
determine.
If
there's
an
injury.
F
If
there's
an
injury,
then
we
we
start
to
go
through
the
emergency
medical
dispatch
protocols,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
giving
instructions
on
how
to
render
Aid
to
the
victim
if
they've
been
injured.
So
so
in
all
three
of
those
examples,
those
would
be
situations
where
we
would
put
it
through
emergency
medical
dispatch
or
the
emergency
available
dispatch
algorithm,
because
it's
associated
with
the
medical
emergency,
but
all
three
of
those
events.
F
The
way
it
is
now
would
also
likely
warrant
a
law
enforcement
response
as
well,
and
part
of
that
is
because,
in
some
of
those
examples,
EMS
has
asked
that
law
enforcement
respond
in
conjunction
with
them
to
ensure
that
the
scene
is
safe
so
that
they
can
go
into
the
senior
render
Aid.
So
that's
something
that
EMS
has
requested
for
the
three
types
of
calls
that
you
gave
examples
for.
B
All
right,
thanks,
Michael
I,
have
a
couple
of
quick
questions
about
I
have
a
couple
of
questions
that
will
be
quick
for
me
to
ask
okay,
but
first
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
much
discretion
exists
in
the
dispatching
of
Emergency,
Services
or
or
American
Services
urgent,
Services,
I've,
heard
reports
from
some
localities
that
have
adopted
alternative
and
co-response
models.
That
sort
of
despite
their
efforts
of
organizational
restructuring
at
the
point
of
dispatch,
calls,
are
still
being
escalated.
F
F
F
We've
tried
our
best
in
Tompkins
County
to
refine
it
so
that
we
have
the
same
protocols
across
the
county
because,
typically
and
like
I'd
like
to
invite
any
one
of
you
that
would
like
to
come
up
and
sit
and
dispatch
to
see
it
because
I
think
that
will
provide
a
great
deal
of
context
and
that
you
could
see
how
a
911
dispatcher
actually
takes
the
call
in
and
the
process
and
that's
an
open
invitation.
Absolutely
and
I
think
it
would
be
great
if
you
could
do
that,
because
again.
F
I
think
that
when
you
do
that
it
will
just
be
very
eye-opening
and
I
think
you
could
see
how
sometimes
the
way
the
call
starts
to
evolve,
that
there
often
will
try
to
err
on
the
side
of
caution,
especially
if
it
involves
an
EMS
response
to
ensure
that
they
have
some
form
of
support,
and
it
doesn't
necessarily
just
mean
scene
support.
F
It
could
also
mean
that
there's
another
agency
that
might
need
to
respond
in
advance
of
them
if
it's
a
certain
type
of
medical
call,
because
if
they
can
get
there
a
little
bit
faster
like
a
cardiac
event.
I
think
is
an
example
of
that,
where
the
fire
department
will
still
respond.
So
there
is
a
concern
of
not
getting
the
call
type
correct.
F
F
Especially
for
the
Urgent
and
emergency
yeah
right:
that's
why
I
kind
of
broke
that
down
in
the
beginning,
because
if
it's
not
urgent
or
emergent,
then
it
really
falls
into
I.
Think
more
of
like
a
service
call
right
and
then,
if
you're
talking
about
service
calls,
then
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
there,
but
there's
we're
not
typically
involve
necessarily
a
public
safety
response
and-
and
I
often
said
I.
F
Think
Travis
has
heard
me
say
this
in
in
the
legislative
convenience
when
I
think
of
Public
Safety
I,
don't
just
limit
it
to
like
law
enforcement.
It's
in
my
world.
It's
please
Fire,
EMS
and
9-1-1
all
sort
of
like
working
together,
so
one
doesn't
necessarily
respond.
Maybe
another
one
responds
and
sometimes
they'll
have
to
respond
together.
It's
a
whole
bunch
of
questions
about
SCP.
You.
D
B
G
Okay,
I'm
on
mute
it
well.
Thank
you.
My
I
have
a
few
questions,
not
long
ones.
I'd,
like
you
sure,
is
your
feelings
about
RPS
one.
What
what
do
you
feel
about
the
need
for
RPS
in
this
community?
G
F
Can
we
just
maybe
start
and
work
our
way
back?
Can
you
just
elaborate
so
I'm
clear
on
your
question
with
regards
to
the
training
for
the
folks
answering
calls.
Are
we
talking
about
and
on
on
our
responder?
Are
we
talking
about
the
911
center
staff.
F
G
F
So
what
you're
struggling
with
I
think
a
lot
of
communities
across
the
country
are
struggling
with,
but
for
various
reasons,
what
I?
And
you
asked
me
what
my
my
thoughts
are
I
think
from
a
personal
level,
I
think,
because
we're
talking
about
not
just
I
think
we're
talking
about
alternative
response
as
opposed
to
unarmed
response
and
George.
You
might
remember
me
saying
this
in
a
couple
of
the
reimagining
conversations
you
know,
I
look
at
what
the
sheriff's
department
that,
for
example,
those
are
alternative
responses
right,
it's
not
necessarily
about
armed
or
unarmed.
F
But,
let's
suppose
that
you
got
to
the
point
where
you
felt
that
another
emergency
service
should
maybe
answer
a
call,
that's
typically
being
done
now
by
your
law
enforcement.
Community
I.
Think
that
you'd
want
to
Loop
that
particular
discipline
in
whether
it's
say
it's
Fire
EMS,
to
see
whether
or
not
that's
a
way
they
can
fulfill
and
whether
or
not
it
really
fits
within
their
responsibility
as
an
emergency
responder.
F
So
I'd
like
to
see
that
broader
conversation
where
you're
looking
and
working
with
those
other
Public
Safety
Safety
entities
to
see,
does
it
does
it
work
for
them
as
well?
You
know
because,
when
you
get
into
like
Ems,
for
example,
EMS
will
often
say
that
they
want
a
law
enforcement
response
because
they
want
to
make
sure
that
the
scene
is
safe,
so
learn
from
EMS.
Well,
what
calls
do
you
typically?
F
What
what
calls
or
call
types
concern
you
that
we
need
to
start
thinking
about
then,
if
you'd
like
to
have
law
enforcement
there,
you
know
so
that
you
understand
that
so
that
you're
making
sure
that
that
piece
is
addressed
because
you
could
say
well,
we
don't
want
necessarily
law
enforcement.
Respond
to
this,
but
then
who
would
respond?
You
know,
because
if
EMS
responded
as
an
example,
that
is
a
form
of
unarmed
response,
it's
just
EMS
or
the
fire
department
responded
or
maybe
code
enforcement
I.
F
The
only
way
we're
really
going
to
know
is
to
really
look
at
the
ball
types
and
see
who's
answering
them
and
what
the
volume
is
and
whether
or
not
you
know
those
are
call
types
that
you
might
be
addressing
all
types
that
don't
even
have
any
that
don't
even
typically
get
used
as
a
response,
and
you
can
help.
We
can
help
with
that.
Absolutely.
A
To
feed
right
into
into
you,
so
this
is
one
of
my
biggest
problems
with
the
reimagining
process
that
I
was
involved
in.
We
spent
three
months
talking
about
contacts
at
the
end
of
the
day.
Mike
can
help
me
out
if
you,
if
the
Senate
gets
a
call,
here's
a
person
that
says
hey
outside
down
the
street,
there's
four
big
black
guys
and
and
it's
you
know,
10
o'clock
at
night,
you're,
not
arguing.
F
There
sure
I
mean
that
type
of
that
type
of
request
would
probably
weren't
a
law
enforcement
response
because
there's
nobody
else
in
queue
to
handle
that.
So
when
we
think
about
the
other
services
that
we
dispatched
fire
or
EMS,
that's
not
a
call
that
you
would
typically
dispatch
one
of
those
other
two
entities
too.
A
A
They
say
black
name
over
at
Conway
Park
and
it
looks
like
the
argument
could
be
fighting
so
now,
three
or
four
officers
show
up
and
their
adrenaline
is
pumping
because
there's
a
fight
and
there's
a
lot
of
black
guys
outside
fighting,
so
when
they
show
up
and
it's
four
black
guys
having
a
good
time
laughing
and
joking
no
arguing
everything
is
cool
and
these
officers
show
up
hands
on
their
guns,
want
to
know
what
we're
doing
and
ready
to
go.
We're
like
what
the
hell
is
going
on.
What
is
this
all
about
right?
A
A
They
put
my
son's
life
in
danger
and
we've
had
counseling
your
countless
incidents
in
this
community
of
that
I've
had
over
a
dozen
sitting
in
my
backyard
hanging
out
chilling
with
friends
where
I've
had
police
show
up,
the
problem
becomes
the
policy
and
training
of
our
officers
and
the
way
our
officers
approach
us
right.
It
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
call
center
it
has
to
do
with
policing
as
a
whole
and
how
they
treat
us,
how
they
view
Us
and
how
they
see
us.
A
We
could
talk
about
calls
all
night
long,
but
it's
the
response
once
the
folks
get
there,
that's
what
it
really
comes
down
to
to
me.
That's
what
reimagining
is
all
about
in
domestic
situations
and
I
turn
it
over
to
Heavenly.
It's
even
it's
even
more
scary
right,
because
I
could
be
having
an
argument.
Arguments
happen.
A
Somebody
calls
officer,
shows
up.
They
see
a
275
pound
black
man
standing
there,
things
hit
the
fan
pretty
fast
right.
So
it's
not
the
call.
It's
not
the
type.
It's
not
the
response,
it's
the
response
from
the
officers
once
they
get
there
and
we
keep
talking
about
contacts.
We're
not
talking
about
the
rule
of
the
issue
and
that's
officers.
Behaviors
go
ahead.
Heaven.
E
So
another
Council
executive,
director
of
the
Advocacy
Center
and
just
for
context,
we
are
the
domestic
violence,
sexual
violence,
child
sexual
abuse,
Services
programs.
Here
in.
E
Providing
crisis
Services,
providing
advocacy,
we're
working
with
many
survivors
who
are
involved
with
the
criminal
justice
system,
either
by
their
choice,
sometimes
or
Not,
by
their
choice
or
we're
also
working
with
survivors
who
have
chosen
not
to
interact
with
the
criminal
justice
system
and
so
and
we're
running
for
24
hours
a
day
so
where
we
have
24-hour
hotline
we're
responding
24
hours
a
day
and
we're
working
with
people
where
there
is
a
really
acute
crisis.
There's
an
emergency!
E
There's
abuse
happening
right
now
we
work
with
people
where
abuse
is
happening
and
who
are
coming
to
us,
not
in
crisis
and
we're
working
with
people
who
PBS
may
have
happened
a
long
time
ago.
So
it's
really
the
full
spectrum.
I
mean
a
little
bit
about
my
experience.
E
I
started
my
work
in
this
community
25
years
ago,
as
a
domestic
violence
advocate
and
I
spent
a
bunch
of
those
years
working
as
a
legal
advocate,
so
working
with
survivors
who
were
involved
in
the
criminal
and
family
court
system
and
also
working
really
closely
with
what
was
then
the
community
police
officers
and
doing
follow-up
follow-up
in
survivors
homes
after
crisis
so
and
George
and
I.
When
we
spoke
talked
a
little
bit
about
that
experience,
so
I
think
we
have.
E
We
also
have
some
previous
models
in
our
community
of
the
ways
community
policing
have
have
worked
in
different
ways
in
the
past
here
and
in
a
ways
that
you
know,
we've
moved
past
in
there
and
there
are.
There
are
pros
and
cons.
There
were
pros
and
cons
to
that
model
as
well,
but
we've
really
moved
past
and
I
think
lost
some
of
that
as
well
and
lost
some
of
that
strength.
E
You
know
I
want
to
say
we
really
support
the
reimagining
public
safety
process,
I
think
actually
so
many
things
I
could
talk
about
right
now.
There's
so
many
things,
I
want
to
say
to
you
all
I.
B
E
Think
that
I
want
to
break
down
our
the
the
populations
that
we
work
with,
because
I
think
things
look
a
little
bit
different
and
I
want
to
talk
about
domestic
violence
because
I
think
that's
the
population
that
comes
up
most
when
we
talk
about
reimaging,
Public
Safety.
When
we
talk
about
calls,
you
know,
I,
agree,
I,
think
in
terms
of
what
you're
saying
is
I,
don't
think
we're
ever
going
to
be
able
to
differentiate
on
the
911
level,
whether
something's,
a
dangerous
domestic
or
not.
E
E
And
so
I,
don't
think
we're
going
to
be
able
to
I
think
Donald
100
I'm
never
going
to
be
able
to
make
that
call.
There
I
agree,
I,
think
it's
it's
very
much
in
the
response
and
as
as
a
domestic
violence
advocate
when
I
talk
about
the
tools
that
we've
developed
in
the
last
25
to
30
years
in
our
communities
in
the
movement,
it's
like,
we
have
a
box,
but
it's
full
of
hammers
and
the
only
tool
we
have
developed
for
accountability
and
safety
is
the
criminal
justice
system
and
I
want
to
be
clear.
E
I
have
worked
with
survivors
where
I
believe
the
criminal
justice
system
intervention
saved
their
lives
that
there
was
no
other
options
for
them
in
order
to
be
safe
because
that
person
was
relentlessly
focused
on
harming
or
potentially
killing
them,
and
we
did
not
have
anything
else.
I
have
also
worked
with
survivors
in
this
community
who
I
believe
have
been
harmed
by
their
inner
facing
with
the
criminal
justice
system.
No
question
and
I've
also
worked
with
many
survivors
who
have
chosen,
and
most
of
those
survivors
were
bypass.
E
E
Often
times
that
everyone
has
done
the
right,
the
quote-unquote
right
thing,
but
it
still
does
not
sometimes
come
come.
We
don't
sometimes
get
the
outcome
of
safety
and
healing
for
survivors
and
accountability
in
a
healthy
way
for
people
who
are
harming,
and
so
we
very
I
very
much
am
interested
in
talking
about
alternative
responses
to
domestic
violence.
E
You
know,
in
the
depths
of
the
pandemic,
I
started
reaching
out
to
the
state
International
leaders
who
are
thinking
about
this,
because
I
thought
you
know
we
really
have
an
opportunity
here.
Potentially,
we
have
an
opportunity
to
potentially
as
a
community
focus
on
this
and
focus
Survivor
experiences
survivors
who
have
not
felt
and
not
been
well
surged
by
the
systems
we
have
now
and
do
something
different,
and
you
know
the
the
and
the
answer
on
that
is
it's
complicated
and
but
I
do
think.
E
These
are
neighborhood
responses,
very
specific,
community-based
responses,
they're
very
culturally
and
culturally
and
yeah
that
is
culturally
specific,
they're,
very
specific
to
people
in
a
place
and
the
relationships
they
have
I.
Don't
think.
C
E
The
immediate
response
to
the
unarmed
versus
armed
I
think
it's
going
to
be
very
hard
in
the
moment
to
make
that
either
or
decision
and
I
think
on
the
point
of
safety,
we're
going
to
end
up
with
armed,
at
least
that
because
I
think
it's
it's
it
and
I
think
that
there's
stuff
we
can
do
to
shift
that
response
as
well.
Absolutely
I
also
think
that
that
will
still
leave
us
in
the
place
of
that
for
that
that
system's
still
not
serving
all
survivors
who
need
that
help.
E
So
I
think
that
that's
a
much
bigger
conversation,
it's
a
conversation
that
needs
resources
and
time,
and
it
also
needs
to
be
grounded
in
the
community.
You
know
it
needs
to
be
grounded
in
the
experience
of
survivors
and
and
have
the
experience
of
survivors
who
either
feel
like
they
have
been
served
by
criminal
justice
interventions
or
people
who
feel
like
they
have
not
been
served
by
those
interventions.
E
You
know
when
I've
had
people
talking
to
me
about
the
possibility
of
an
unarmed
response
for
victims
of
sexual
violence,
where
there
may
not
be
an
immediate
crisis
in
that
moment,
so,
let's
say
somebody's
recording,
an
assault
which
is
very
a
sexual
assault,
often
there's
a
delay
in
recording,
statistically
it's
very
common,
both
for
Domestic
and
Sexual
Violence
that
there's
a
delay
in
recordings
people
don't
always
report
right
after
the
abuse
they
may
be
traumatized.
They
may
not
know
that
they
can
call.
E
They
may
wait
till
they're
in
a
place
of
safety
to
call
make
that
call,
and
so
it
can
seem.
I
talk
to
people
who
said
well.
It
seems
like
it
makes
sense,
then
we
can
send
an
unarmed
responder
to
have
that
conversation.
The
challenge
of
that,
then,
though,
is
that,
if
then,
that
Survivor,
if
something
is
going
to
move
forward
in
the
criminal
realm,
they
have
to
tell
that
whole
story.
E
Impact
that
that
can
have
on
survivors
can
be
intense
and
so
I
I
again
I
think
there
are
things
we
can
do
to
shape
that
experience
and
again
we
have
a
multi-disciplinary
team
here
that
works
on
sex
abuse
cases
from
report
through
disposition,
and
so
there
are
systems
already
in
place
here
and
I
think
there's
more.
That
always
can
be
done,
but
I,
but
I
worry
I,
think
that's
one
of
those
things
that
sounds
common
sense
and
sounds
like
well.
That
would
be
a
good
thing,
but
actually
can
have
unintended
consequences
for
survivors.
E
Who
then
may
have
to
relive
that
experience
multiple
times
and
that's
definitely
from
the
research
in
our
experience
with
survivors.
That's
definitely
not
best
practice.
We
want
survivors
to
have
to
tell
their
stories
as
few
times
as
possible
to
as
few
people
as
possible,
and
that's
going
to
be
that
and
that's
what's
going
to
support
a
potential
prosecution,
but
also
support
Survivor
healing
as
well.
E
Lastly,
child
abuse
cases
and
again
I
think
there's
there.
There
are
definitely
there's
definitely
room
here
for
some
alternate
responses,
and
this
is
where
some
of
those
you
know
how
we
approach
cases.
You
know
a
kid
in
their
yard
right,
a
kid
left
alone.
E
E
Chapter
Services,
you
know,
is
always
already
responding
jointly
to
child
abuse
cases,
and
so
that
that
that
is
already
happening,
and
so
I
think
involving
them
in
the
conversation
would
be
important
if
you're
considering
child
abuse,
child
abuse
cases
and
some
kind
of
differentiated
response
and
again
just
bringing
their
experience
to
people
and
also
better
understanding
what
is
already
happening
now,
because
there
are
definitely
many
cases
where
both
law
enforcement
and
CPS
may
be
responding.
Yeah.
F
I,
just
Sprints
setting
is
a
really
good
point,
and
that
was
one
that
was
a
particular
call
type
that
we
did
talk
about
during
one
of
the
reimagining
meetings,
where
it
was
only
I.
Think
I
I
don't
want
to
I,
don't
want
to,
you
know,
speak,
but
it
was
below
20
in
a
year
for
the
entire
County
and
I
and
I
who
the
child
abuse,
where
we
would
get
a
phone
call
and
re
and
where
somebody
was
reporting
a
child
abuse
case
and
I.
F
Think
that
that's
typically
because
in
some
of
your
other
examples
we
get
the
call
for
help
hey
Jay,
it
could
be.
It
could
be
a
situation
where
somebody
is
reporting,
somebody
that's
screaming.
Maybe
somebody
is
being
abused
or
we
don't
necessarily
know
that
it's
a
child
abuse
case.
So
that's
a
good
example
I
think
of
a
nature
or
a
call
type
where
we
don't
use
it
very
often.
F
It's
it's
minimal
and
I
think
it's
because
of
how
the
call
comes
into
us,
and
we
don't
necessarily
know
that
it
involves
a
child
and
and
at
the
time,
if
I,
remember
correctly.
Sort
of
looking
at
that
particular
call
type
I.
Think
the
call
types
that
we
did
calls
that
we
did
get.
It
were
probably
a
mandatory
reporting
situations
where
maybe
somebody
from
the
hospital
school
and
then
they
were
very
clear
on
the
reason
why
they
were
calling
and
then
that's
how
we
coded
it
in
the
system.
D
I
have
a
comment
in
this
we'll
read
into
the
question
for
you:
I've
actually
had
our
acting
Chief
coming
out
the
same
thing
you
did
about
victims
of
domestic
violence
having
to
tell
their
story
more
than
once
and
how
damaging
that
can
be
and
frustrating,
and
ultimately,
maybe
they'll
just
stop
telling
their
story.
D
Another
thing
is
we've
been
thinking
about
is:
is
the
need
for
follow-up
and
and
Travis
point
out
that
we
used
to
do
that
when
you
know
we
have
more
fleshed
out
Community,
releasing
response
and
Post
Falls
program
and
now
they're
doing
it
in
Rochester
and
that
something
that
is
intriguing
to
us,
because
the
ipd
says
they
may
answer
the
call
making
a
restaurant
making
arrests,
but
but
they
don't
go
back
and
two
days
later
and
say
well
our.
D
E
Do
yeah
I
mean
so
I
think
that
and
we
used
to
do
that
as
I
said,
you
know,
when
I
was
a
legal
Advocate
I
would
go
out
there
were
there
were
three
different
officers
that
you
know
we
would
go
out.
I
would
sit
at
people's
kitchen
tables
with
them
and
you
know
talk
about.
You
know
what
had
happened.
Often
people
often
had
questions
about
what
happened.
Things
happen
very
fast
in
a
crisis
response
law
enforcement
call
often
things
happen
very
fast.
E
Often
survivors
are
very
confused
about
what
happened:
they're,
not
even
sure
if
an
arrest
was
made
or
not
or
if
not.
Why
or
what
happens
next,
so
there's
very
logistical
questions
that
people
have,
but
then
there
is
that
sort
of
what
next
piece
and
recognizing
that
the
law
enforcement.
Whatever
was
the
underlying
issue.
If
there
was
an
underlying
issue
that
warranted
law
enforcement,
it
was
likely
not
solved
by
that
law
enforcement
response
right,
so
I
think
there
can
be
it's
interesting.
I've
been
trying
to
reach.
You
were
talking
about
the
Rochester
program.
E
D
E
Yeah
I'm
not
sure
that
they're
doing
response
to
domestic
violence
cases
outside
where
there's
also
an
underlying
mental
health
call.
Now
there
may
be
some
overlap
in
those
calls,
but
there
are
many
more
cases
that
are
domestic
violence
and
not
Mental
Health
as
an
underlying
issue,
but
I,
but
I
think
that
can
be
good.
I
think
that
more
Formal
Connection
be
between
law
enforcement,
and
how
do
we
make
that
link
to
other
services
that
are
needed?
E
And
how
do
we
do
that
more
directly
and
that's
when
I
mean
we've
been
working
on
different
models?
For
that
you
know
for
25
30
years
and
you
know
models
come
models,
go
they're
resource
intensive
as
well.
You
know,
even
just
there's,
we
were
I'm
on
the
reimagining
committee
for
the
county
on
the
data
committee
and
even
just
talking
about
like
how,
like
we
can't
track
things
from
9-1-1
to
law
enforcement
to
the
DA's
office.
To
this
position.
E
It's
a
lot
of
that
is
manual
pulling
DB
cases
out
of
the
data
is
mostly
manual
because
there's
no
domestic
violence
charge
in
New
York
state.
It's
an
assault,
it's
harassment!
There
are
these
charges
based
on
behaviors,
not
based
on
relationship,
so
all
of
that
is
manual,
so
I
I
think
there's
there's
a
real
resource
question
here
that
comes
in
about
making
a
decision
about
like.
Where
are
we
putting
those
resources
but
I?
E
Think
follow-up
is
good,
I
think,
but
then
I
think,
if
we're
looking
at
follow-up
I
think
we
have
services
for
follow-up
models
for
for
victim
services,
like
that's
the
role
we're
fitting.
If
we're
talking
about
alternative
models,
there's
this
other
piece
about
how
do
we
follow
up
with
the
person
who
has
been
harming
and
are
there
models
for
accountability
that
don't
involve
law
enforcement
that
don't
involve
a
rest
and
that's
what
some
of
these
other
models
are
looking
at
communities?
How
do
we
look
at
what
is
community-based
accountability?
E
F
Yeah
I,
agree
and
I
think
a
dilemma
that
we're
sometimes
at
a
911
Center
is
that
you
know
we're
trained
now
to
quickly
trash
a
call
and
get
it
out.
I'm.
Sorry.
So
to
that
point
there
are
times
when
a
dispatcher
will
spend
as
much
time
as
they
possibly
can
to
really
try
to
work
with
the
caller.
F
I
mean
you'd,
be
surprised
at
some
of
the
calls
that
we
get
I
mean
we
have
folks
that
call
the
911
Center
three
or
four
hundred
times
a
year,
and
we
get
absolutely
and
and
the
and
the
dispatcher
does
the
best
job
that
they
can
to
try
to
really
get
them
the
resources
they
need.
They
don't
necessarily
just
send
it
out
to
like
law
enforcement.
F
They
really
try
to
drill
down
the
problem,
but
because
our
training
is
counter-intuitive
to
that,
you
know
with
spending
time
and
nurturing
and
trying
to
really
work
through
the
problem
with
the
Faller
I.
Think
that's
got
to
be
part
of
the
conversation
as
well.
You
know.
Is
there
a
way
for
resources
to
be
added
to
change
it
to
the
911
Center,
where
maybe
the
caller?
F
It
can
be
transferred
to
somebody
with
a
skill
set
that
can
really
spend
some
time
working
through
what
their
actual
needs
are
as
a
as
opposed
to
quickly
trying
to
discern
within
70
seconds.
Who
do
we
send?
You
know
and
I
think
that
sets
a
little
bit
of
a
traffic
amount
of
one
system,
but
I
think
we
could
do
a
much
better
job
at
and
if
I
could
just
say,
one
of
the
things
I
think
it
speaks
directly
to
what
you're
saying
about
the
data
and
you're
reimagining
piece.
F
I
couldn't
agree
with
her
more
because
when
you
there's,
we
collect
data
in
one
of
two
ways.
When
it
comes
to
Public,
Safety
and
accounting,
we
use
the
system
called
Spillman
and
there's
a
computer-aid
dispatch.
You've
heard
this
system
right
so
Spillman.
So
there's
two
sides
of
Spillman
the
cad
side,
which
is
an
idle
one
set
where
we
might
code
a
call,
as
a
say,
a
noise
complaint,
and
now
a
responder
gets
there
and
they
determine
the
police
officer
says
no.
F
This
was
actually
indeed
a
child
abuse
case,
so
we
might
have
only
dispatched
say:
15
child
abuse
cases
across
accounting.
For
an
entire
year,
but
if
you
were
to
run
the
data,
what
they
refer
to
as
a
disposition
code,
what
did
he?
What
did
that
for
first
responder,
actually
see
and
determine
that
call
was
there
could
have
been
300.
F
and
so
and
sometimes
it's
just
the
way
the
information
is
provided
to
the
911
call
taker.
So
you
know,
I
would
suggest
that
when
you're,
looking
at
your
data
that
you
that
you,
that
you
spend
some
time
looking
at
the
disposition
codes
and
then
compare
that
to
how
we
dispatch
it
and
I
think
that's
more
an
opportunity
for
us
as
well,
because
to
your
point,
I
think
it's
a
great
point
that
that
those
after
actions
you
know-
and
what
can
we
do
better
and
you
know
that
would
be
helpful
and
But.
F
The
irony
is:
is
that
I
use
this
term
own?
We
own,
the
meaning
of
the
I-1
center,
owns
the
dispatch
data
and
each
law
enforcement
entity
owns
their
own
data.
So
for
that
to
happen,
every
single
law
enforcement
agency
would
have
to
say
hey.
We
want
to
do
this
comparison
to
see
the
type
of
call
that
we
were
dispatched
to
versus
what
we
actually
code
the
call
after
they
got
there
and
clear
the
wall
so
I'm
not
sure
to
that
and
I
think
that
speaks
that's.
B
So
I
want
to
listen
on
Heather's
last
Point
LED
you
to
want
to
return
to
what
Travis
said
about
the
noise
complaint
scenario,
because
I
think
you've
raised
a
really
important
point
about
this
debate.
Being
I've
been
aggregate
hyper
focused
on
the
delineation,
and
when
you
talk
about
you
know,
Community
response
right.
B
B
Right
people
do
all
the
time,
I've,
never
called
the
police,
because
you
know
someone's
walking
late
at
night,
that
that
happens
all
the
time
as
well
and
I.
The
the
frustrating
thing
for
me,
I,
think
to
part
of
the
point
that
you
raised.
Travis
is
like
it
doesn't
really
matter
if
there
is
the
possibility
of
an
armed
response
and
I'm
not
talking
about
his
arm
under
arm
as
a
binary
but
like,
if
there's
a
possibility
of
an
armed
response
or
something
that
is
not
actually
an
emergency
like.
How
do
we
help
address
that
right?
You.
F
Mean
I
have
a
thought,
I
mean-
and
this
is
just
a
personal
opinion
of
mine,
but
kind
of
springboarding
off
your
example
when
it
when
I
think
sometimes
you
know
First
Responders,
it's
similar
to
the
911
dispatchers,
some
they
feel
like
am
I
going
to
get
in
trouble.
If
I
don't
do
this,
so
you
know
when
you
say
that
again
I'm
sorry,
if,
if
they
don't,
if
they
don't
do
with
what
they
believe,
is
expected
of
them
that
they're
going
to
get
in
trouble
that
they're
these.
F
So
my
question
is:
if,
if
the
law
enforcement
officers
were
to
drive
by
in
that
scenario-
and
they
say
they
knew
everybody
involved
or
they
they
drove
by
and
it
doesn't
look
like
anything's
happening
right.
What
is
the
community's
response
that
they
don't
stop,
get
out
and
talk
versus
them
driving
by
and
saying.
F
Looks
fine
we're
going
to
keep
going
and
do
we
Empower
them
and
do
we
trust
them
enough
to
make
that
decision
so
I
think
about
mental
health
response
right
and
having
been
a
field
provider
at
one
time
and
going
to
a
call,
because
maybe
somebody
is
just
not
familiar
with
a
particular
individual.
They
think
they're
in
crisis
they
call
911
and
now
the
Cavalry
is
coming
I'm,
the
first
responder
I
get
there
I'm
like.
No,
that's
just
that's
just
John.
Everything
is
fine,
but
there's
this
expectation.
F
Well,
if
I
don't
get
out
and
I
don't
and
I
don't
appear
to
be
doing
my
job
that
that
same
caller
now
is
going
to
call
back
to
my
supervisor
and
say:
hey:
they
never
even
did
anything
they
just
drove
by
they're
being
lazy.
So
I
think
that
you
know
are
there
circumstances
where
we
can
empower
the
First
Responders
to
make
some
of
those
decisions
and
do
it
in
a
safe
space
where
they
don't
have
to
worry
about
being
criticized,
especially
if
they
know
the
folks
involved.
F
I
mean
it's
just
again
from
having
been
a
first
responder
I've
been
in
that
predicament.
It's
not
an
easy
one
to
be
in
because
I've
been
in
that
situation,
where
I
drove
by
and
then
accused
of
not
doing
what
I'm
supposed
to
be
doing
so
I'm
just
wondering
how
it's
viewed
here.
B
Like
I
hear
a
lot
of
what
you're
saying
that
there
are
times
where
there's
like
a
perception
that
well,
this
nuisance
issue
deserves
a
public
safety
response
and
I
I,
guess
I'm
not
offering
a
solution
you
have
to
just
like
problematizing
like
I,
don't
know
that
we
should
I,
don't
know
that,
like
nuisance
level,
issues
of
like
noise
or
things
like
that
are
the
best
allocation
of
these,
like
very
scarce
resources
that
we
are
obviously
competing
across
the
emergency
Spectrum
for
and
yeah.
B
Maybe
that's
expectation
setting
on
the
policy
maker
side
of
you
shouldn't.
You
know,
yeah.
There
shouldn't
be
a
public
perception
that
if
you
hear
loud
noise
that
you're
going
to
necessarily
get
a
response
to
stop
it
because
we
live
in
a
city
and
there's
noise,
it's
going
to
make
me
very
popular
saying
that
at
night,
but
apparently
answers
yeah,
yeah,
sorry.
A
I
would
I
would
say
this
about
a
noise
I
know
his
complaint
could
be
a
thousand
different
things,
and
some
of
them
could
be
a
very
dangerous
situation.
Some
of
them
just
aren't
and
it's
okay
for
officers
to
respond.
It's
not
the
end
of
the
world
is
the
response
once
they
get
there.
So
if
me-
and
my
guys
are
hanging
out
in
front
of
my
house
and
my
neighbor
calls,
the
police
and
the
officer
rolls
up
and
rolls
the
window
as
they're
as
they're
approaching.
A
They
understand
that
nobody's,
arguing,
there's
people
who
talking
and
having
a
good
time
they
could
just
ride
by
and
say,
hey
fellas.
You
know
we
got
a
call
from
somebody
in
the
area.
You
know
you
might
want
to
keep
it
down
a
little
bit,
have
a
good
night
and
keep
it
pushing
because
that's
what
they
would
do
if
it
was
by
white
guy,
stand
out
in
front
of
their
house
and
give
you
guys
if
they
came
at
all
right.
So
for
me,
it's
okay
to
show
up.
That's
not
the
issue!
A
If,
if
some,
if
it's
a
domestic
situation-
and
somebody
calls
because
they
hear
a
lot
of
noise,
it's
definitely
okay
to
show
up
it's
what
you
do
when
you
get
there.
So
if
you
have
a
domestic
and
you
have
a
core
response,
officer
shows
up,
the
situation
is
safe
and
they
turn
the
situation
over
to
a
professional
who's.
Trying
to
deal
with
this
right.
It's
a
lot
easier
to
have
follow-up.
After
if
you've
made
point
of
contact,
if
it's
like
a
warm
handoff,
it's
very
difficult.
A
I
can't
just
knock
on
my
door
and
say
Travis
the
other
day.
At
least
they
sent
me
some
information.
Maybe
I
would
be
offended
until
it
to
kick
rocks.
But
if
she
came
during
that
situation
and
said,
hey
you
know
on
Tuesday
afternoon,
you
know,
can
I
can
I
stop
by.
So
we
could
talk
a
little
more,
absolutely
right.
It's
a
warm
handle
it
it's
one
of
the
reasons
why
lead
works.
There's
a
warm
handoff,
there's,
a
response
that
happens
in
a
moment.
There's
a
warm
handoff
and
then
later
on.
A
If
I'm
part
of
that
program
and
I
do
have
some
mental
health
issues
and
I'm
bugging,
the
officer
could
say,
oh
he
works
with
Anna.
Let
me
call
Anna
and
Anna
could
come
deal
with
that
situation.
Well,
wait
a
second!
This
person
is
drunk
they're
part
of
the
program.
Let
me
see
if
they're
on
the
list
to
get
cabs
home
from
Lee
or
they're
on
the
list.
A
Don't
want
to
wonder
if
I'm
going
to
see
my
kids
again
when
you
get
pulled
over
I'm
assuming
you're
one
you're
you're
thinking,
maybe
your
insurance
is
going
up.
Your
other
half
is
going
to
get
a
little
upset
because
you
got
another
ticket
whatever
the
idea
that
this
may
end
very
badly
for
me
physically
is
because
I'm
black,
that's
it
it's
for
no
other
reason,
but
I'm
Black
and
I'm
black
with
dreads
and
tattoos
and
earrings,
and
that
it
just
makes
the
scenario
even
worse.
A
For
myself
in
many
occasions,
I
shouldn't
have
to
worry
about
those
things.
This
is
about
call
tax.
This
isn't
about
core
responses.
This
is
about
policy
and
training
and
hiring
the
right
people
for
the
job
like
I
just
want.
I've
said
this
a
thousand
times
I
want
our
Police
Department
to
look
like
our
fire
department.
I
want
them
to
come
when
you're
called
upon
do
an
amazing
job
and
then
get
out
of
my
life.
I
don't
want
to
feel
control,
I,
don't
want
to
feel
harassed
and
I.
A
Definitely
don't
want
to
ever
think
that
something
bad
is
going
to
happen
to
me
simply
because
I'm
not
white,
like
that's
that's
what
this
is
all
about
for
many
of
us
and
then
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
we
can
do
to
to
change
that
narrative,
but
we
actually
have
to
expand
the
toolbox.
We
have
to
find
more
programs,
we
have
to
add
core
responses,
there's
so
much
more.
We
can
do
and
everything
has
to
be
rooted
in
evidence-based
right.
We
can't
just
make
up
stuff.
A
A
G
G
Think
what's
very
clear
to
me:
is
it's
not
about
you
know
it's
important
for
the
community
and
and
the
police
department
to
heal,
but
what's
more
important
is
learning
how
we
respond,
how
police
officers
respond
to
the
calls
and
our
new
unarmed
responders
has
a
lot
to
do
with
everything
that
I've
has
been
talked
about
out
tonight
and
I.
Think
for
us
like
it
feels
a
lot
like
we
just
dancing
around
a
lot
of
anything
to
really
talk
about
the
reasoning
why
reimagining
Public
Safety
has
come
to
our
community.
G
We
know
it
was
the
executive
order
203.
We
know
why
it
came
to
the
community
and
Travis
has
mentioned
a
few
different
ways
in
which
being
stopped
by
police.
If
you're
driving
being
stopped-
or
you
know
so,
I
think
our
conversation
here
for
me
is
saying
that
we're
dancing
around
what
we
really
need
to
be
talking
about
right
and
I
could
be
wrong.
G
But
I
really
want
to
hear
our
conversation
more
geared
doing
how
this
relationship
between
ipd
community
of
color
and
how
we
begin
to
work
in
a
way
that
the
mindset
of
police
officers
begin
to
somewhat
change,
because
there's
a
lot
of
reaction
of
the
way
they've
been
learned
not
just
on
the
police
force,
but
throughout
history.
So
I,
you
know
yeah.
Thank
you.
Travis.
A
D
D
If
people
rolled
up
and
got
out
of
the
car
and
said
hey
what's
going
on
as
opposed
to,
you
know,
shut
up
and
get
back
in
your
house,
that's
kind
of
a
big
part
of
what
you're
trying
to
figure
out.
D
So
it's
not
necessarily
on
our
response.
It's
alternative
response,
but
alternative
response
should
be
normal
response.
D
I'm
old
enough
to
remember
out
of
my
sticks
of
scholar
County
when
the
deputy
sheriff
could
actually
give
you
a
ride
home,
and
that's
that's
what
you're
just
talking
about
so
these
are
and
Heather.
Thank
you.
You're.
A
hugely
important
part
of
this
I
really
appreciate
it
because
domestic
violence,
one
of
the
biggest
problems
we
have
and
and
I
think
I-
think
ipd
is
probably
aware
of
that
and
I
think
they
want
to
improve
the
response.
To
that.
D
C
C
So
when
we're
looking
for
evidence-based
Solutions
first,
we
need
to
understand
where
we
are
and
if
we
don't
know
where
we
are,
then
we
don't
know
if
we're
actually
going
to
succeed
and
what
we're
doing
is
being
successful
and
changing
what
it
is
that
we
have
and
what
do
we
have
now
versus
what
we
had
15
years
ago
and
my
12
13
years
ago
we
had
to
shine
Greenwood
shooting,
which
our
community
completely
upside
down
and
for
me
I.
C
That's
what
I'm
thinking
about
all
the
time,
but
is
that
now
all
of
those
officers
aren't
here
now
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
how
do
we
close
this
Loop
between
where
we
were
15
years
ago
and
where
we
are
now,
do
we
have
the
same
problems?
Is
it
different?
Is
it
new?
Is
there
something
else
going
on
that?
We
don't
even
know
right
and
unless
we
have
times
when
there
is
that
Loop,
where
you
know
people
roll
up
on
your
party
and
then
they
come
out.
C
C
Maybe
dispatch
could
have
said
is:
do
you
actually
hear
people
fighting
instead,
you
know
so
that
when
you're
sending
officers
out
to
a
fight,
they're
actually
has
been
a
question
to
confirm:
there's
a
fight
so
that
when
the
officers
respond,
you
know
they're
not
jumping
to
it.
You
know
what
I
mean
I
I
just
feel
like.
We
need
to
close
the
loop
on
so
many
things
because
we're
coming
in
and
and
we
might
have
resources
available-
that
we're
not
utilizing.
C
C
A
certain
extent
we
might
need
to
put
the
mechanisms,
the
operational
mechanisms
in
place
now
in
terms
of
closing
that
Loop
now
actually
getting
the
evidence
actually
getting
the
understanding
of
where
our
status
is,
where
the
problems
are
where
the
gaps
are
before.
We
can
even
begin
to
come
up
with
a
solution
because,
like
you
said,
we
might
think
that
there's
a
problem
and
find
out
that
actually
this
rarely
ever
happens,
I,
don't
know
it's
such
a.
C
It's
such
a
challenging
thing
and
I
think
what
adds
to
the
anxiety
around
all
of
this
as
well
is
we
are
a
highly
transient
Community
for
one
and
two-thirds
of
our
population
are
students
or
people
who
move
in
and
out
every
year,
we're
growing
in
our
society
with
people
who
don't
know
their
neighbors
coming
off
of
you
know
a
decade
of.
If
you
see
something
say
something
Holocaust
around.
C
Instead
of
saying
hey
it's
your
neighbor,
can
you
turn
on
your
music
or
what's
going
on
or
are
you
okay
right?
People
aren't
even
encouraged
to
reach
out
to
their
neighbors
or
get
to
know
their
neighbors
to
say,
yeah
I
think
they're
having
a
party
I'll
just
give
them
a
call
and
tell
them
to
tone
that
down
a
little
bit.
C
So
I
think
it's
I,
don't
think
it's
in
either
or
I.
I
do
think
that
it's
a
yes
and
yes,
we
need
better
training.
Yes,
we
should
close
the
loop.
Yes,
we
should
look
at
the
data.
Yes,
we
should
re-examine
all
the
calls
that
we're
sending
law
enforcement
to
make
sure
that
we
expand
our
toolkit
of
responses.
So
it's
not
just
this.
G
C
How
do
we,
you
know
Bridge
all
of
those
gaps
but
I'm
going
to
come
back
to
whatever
we
do
should
be
evidence-based,
and
we
need
to
really
probably
think
about
how
do
we
operationalize
all
of
these
aspects
together,
because
otherwise
we're
just
we're
talking
up
here
and
we're
not
able
to
put
something
in
place
in
the
cpv
has
their
hand
raised
to
them.
G
Phoebe:
okay,
what
what
thank
you
for
that
Cynthia,
but
I
really
want
to
be
a
little
more
transparent.
G
When
we
talk
about
evidence
base,
we
have
not
spoke
of
what
has
been
that
we
need
to
talk
about
which
is
systemic
racism,
that
flows
through
every
organization
throughout
our
history
and
continues,
and
we
need
to
be
very
honest
about
a
lot
of
the
ways
in
which
our
officers,
maybe
not
willingly
interact,
is
because
of
the
the
history
of
systemic
racism,
something
we
don't
talk
about
when
we
talk
about
the
executive
order
that
was
put
in
place,
executive
order,
203
came
in
place
because
of
what
was
happening
in
Black
communities
to
black
people,
and
that's
why
we
was
charged
to
do
reimagining
Public
Safety.
G
So
we
should
be
continue
to
remember
that
and
in
everything
that
we're
doing
you
know,
I
I
try
very
hard,
because
I
I've
been
I
work
very
closely
with
John
Barber,
we
created
meet
the
cheap
monthly
meetings
with
the
chief
inviting
Community
once
a
month
to
come
in
other
activities.
So
I've
I've
seen
this
community
work
really
hard
at
building
relationships.
G
But
if
we
don't
talk
about
systemic
racism
and
how
we
continue
some
way
unbeknowing
to
ourselves,
sometimes
working
from
that
premise,
we
are
going
to
continue
to
keep
going
in
this
Loop
that
you
talk
about,
and
that's
just
been
coming
through
to
me
and
that
we
need
to
be
really
honest
about
why
why
we
want
reimagining
Public
Safety,
why
the
black
community
really
wants
it?
A
You
know,
ipd
claims
that
they
do
the
best
training
for
every
police
department
and
the
history
of
the
police
departments.
It's
not
about
training.
A
lot
of
it
goes
back
to
policy
before
we
went
live.
We
were
talking
about
the
shooting
of
shooting
range
and,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
if
you
put
a
black
officer
any
one
of
them
at
the
time
and
place
the
Brian
Banks,
we
have
a
different
conversation
right.
The
problem
was
the
policy
I'm
trying
to
do
the
drug
deal
at
that
time
that
that
place
and
that
location.
A
A
It
doesn't
matter
who
was
interacting
with
them
and
who
is
that
happening
now,
because
shortly
after
there
was
another
shooting
and
the
black
community
responded
very
different,
it
was
tragic,
but
we
understood
what
it
was
and
why
it
was,
and
we
didn't
respond
the
same
way.
That
officer
is
still
here,
and
it's
considered
one
of
the
better
officers,
probably
the
best
officer
in
terms
of
community
policing
that
we
have
now,
but
yet
this
person
isn't
used
the
way
that
they
should
be
right.
A
It's
crazy
to
me
that
we're
this
far
out
of
reimagining
the
whole
giving
giving
you
all
something
to
look
at
the
documents,
the
recommendations,
because
it
still
isn't
a
committee
of
folks
from
ipd
Community
Advocates
to
look
at
policing
policies
that
we
have
like
at
what
point
in
time.
Do
we
really
get
down
to
it
and
we
look
at
the
policies
because,
at
the
end
of
the
day
an
officer
can
do
everything.
A
Somebody
said
it
over
here:
the
right
way,
but
it's
the
wrong
way.
It's
the
absolute
wrong
way,
but
they
follow
a
high
policy.
They
follow
procedure.
Why
is
that?
Why
aren't
we
talking
about
that?
Why
aren't
we
getting
to
the
root
of
this?
If
you
have
a
car
and
your
tire
keeps
going
flat
and
keep
fixing
it
fixing
at
some
point,
you
got
to
figure
out
why
it's
Jack
going
flat
right.
We
can
keep
having
this
conversation
over
and
over
again,
we
have
to
get
to
and
we
have
to
talk
about
leadership
of
our
institutions.
A
If
we're
not
going
to
talk
about
policy,
if
we're
not
going
to
talk
about
leadership,
what
are
we
doing
here?
What
are
we
doing
here?
We've
had
some
good
discussion,
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
came
about,
but
this
it
has
to
be
rooted
in
in
ways
that
can
make
actual
change
like
meaningful
change.
Real
train,
real
change.
We
can
bring
all
the
the
folks
together
in
this
community
and
do
months
and
months
of
training
at
the
end
of
the
day,
if
you
don't
have
the
right
people,
if.
D
A
Don't
have
the
right
policy,
none
of
it
matters,
because
you're
going
to
go
right
back
to
doing
what
you
were
taught
you're,
going
to
go
right
back
to
doing
what
the
book
says
to
do.
We
have
to
address
all
of
that,
and
we
keep
talking
about
things
that
don't
get
to
the
heart
of
this,
so
it
may
changes
in
in
RPD
and
the
way
our
PD
interacts
with
the
community
and
the
way
the
community
interacts
with
the
PD.
D
A
Word
I'll
give
you
an
example.
It
was
two
summers
ago
of
summertime.
Wasn't
an
Ithaca,
so
I
want
to
be
very
fair
to
our
meeting.
There's
a
family
of
black
folks.
They
were
at
a
parking
lot
at
a
grocery
store.
Something
happened
with
the
father.
They
had
to
pull
him
out
the
car,
something
with
his
license
during
that
process,
that
particular
PD
their
policy
was
that
everybody
has
to
get
out
of
the
car
and
get
come.
A
They
had
four-year-old
kids,
six-year-old
kids
15
year
old,
kids
laying
on
blacktop
in
the
summertime
officers
did
exactly
what
they
were
told
to
do
by
policy.
That's
obviously
right
I
can't
imagine
why
an
officer
would
have
thought
that
was
something
they
should
do,
but
this
is
what
policy
says
right.
So
when
you
talk
to
folks
from
the
PD,
they'll
tell
you.
This
is
what
this
is.
What
the
protocol
says.
This
is
what
we
have
to
do.
This
is
what's
required,
many
of
them
will
say:
I
wish
it
wasn't.
A
A
Because
in
10
years,
if
you
have
the
same
policy,
we'll
write
back
to
where
we
started
from
right,
and
so
if
there's
a
response
that
you
get
a
call
and
the
response
comes
into
the
PD
that
there's
x
amount
of
people
doing
this,
how
many
cars
have
to
show
up
right?
So
if
the
response
is
that
four
officers
have
to
show
up
to
x
amount
of
people
they
for
us,
it
looks
like
you're
coming
to
get
us
right.
So
can
the
policy
be
that
you
come
to
the
situation
and
make
a
decision
from
there?
A
A
We
have
to
do
Equity
inclusion
and
this
that
and
the
other
and
we
check
and
we
check
and
we
check
it
and
if
we're
talking
about
officers
knowing
the
community
living
in
the
community,
how
many
city
employees
can
afford
to
live
in
a
city,
it's
not
an
expectation,
Fair
expectation
that
we
can
live
in
the
city.
It's
how
often
you
interact
with
the
folks
that
live
in
the
city
outside
of
uniform
right.
So
why
don't?
A
We
have
a
policy
that
says
if
an
officer's
work
week
is
40
hours
a
week,
they're
three
hours
a
week
have
to
be
spent
at
some
sort
of
agency
in
the
community.
Some
sort
of
non-profit
doing
volunteer
work,
you're
getting
paid
for
it.
It's
not
technically
volunteer
work
but
you're
interacting
with
the
community,
where
you're
getting
to
know
the
community
differently
like
to
me,
there's
just
real
simple
ways
that
we
can
go
about
doing
this,
that
that
affect
permanent
change
and-
and
you
know,
we
still
keep
having
the
same
conversations
yeah.
D
I
I
as
I
recall,
I
was
somebody
in
my
reimagined
task
force
or
maybe
they're
exact
recommendations
and,
and
that's
a
damn
good
recommendation
and
that's
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
we'll
probably
recommend
as
well
yeah
I,
have
to
say
so
you're
quite
about
everybody
getting
out
of
the
car
and
handcuffed
on
the
blacktop
in
this
community,
I
personally
saw
a
hillbilly
family
trying
to
get
home
for
Christmas
car
full
of
kids.
D
A
In
most
car
I've
been
in
20
degree,
weather
and
standing
outside
of
my
car
cuff.
At
the
time
my
girlfriend
and
her
two
infant
kids
standing
outside
the
car
for
30
minutes
I've,
been
there
I've
seen
our
policies,
firsthand
I
got
stories
for
days,
I'm
gonna
share
them
all,
and
others
have
stories
we
heard
from
over
130
200
people
who
shared
their
stories
right.
So
the
stories
are
there.
So
there
are
policies.
There
are
things
that
we
do
for
people
that
look
different,
then
that
hillbilly
family.
D
C
C
I
love
having
it
remaining
because
if
it's
real
though
but
I
don't
know,
if
we
have
policies,
I,
honestly,
don't
George
on
the
test.
What
five
six
years
ago,
we
as
a
council
set
as
a
priority
that
we
wanted
our
department
to
be
accredited
and
part
of
accreditation,
is
to
have
a
complete
set
of
policies
that
meet
best
practices.
C
C
And
basically,
they
got
dismissed
because
you
could
say
the
behavior
was
consistent
with
established
policy,
but
when
you
actually
looked
into
it,
we
had
no
policy.
We
had
no
policy,
for
example,
about
what
off-duty
police
officers
can
do
when
they
approach
an
individual.
Can
you
know
how
do
they
call
out
do?
Can
they
can
they
even
be
engaged
when
they
are
off
duty
and
are
called
Anna?
There
was
no
set
of
policies
for
that.
C
There's
no
set
of
policies
when
you
know
in
off-duty
officers,
engage
in
in
a
bicycle
accident,
but
actually,
in
those
cases
we
created
policies
after
the
event
you
know
what
I'm
talking
about
and
in
my
experience
and
this
time,
I've
been
on
Council
again
and
again
and
again
and
again,
something
happened,
no
corrective
action
because
there
was
no
policy
for
them
to
be
held
and
held
to
so
I
do
believe.
I
agree
with
you
100.
We
need
to
look
at
those
policies.
C
A
A
B
A
Instead
of
expectations
that
every
one
of
our
city
employees
have-
and
you
get
your
check,
you
keep
your
job
when
you
meet
expectations.
If
you
can't
meet
expectations,
then
who's
holding
them
accountable,
and
this
is
why
I
don't
really
reimagining
I
said
over
and
over
and
over
again
there
needs
to
be
somebody
in
charge
of
the
PD
outside
of
the
chief,
not
yeah,
County
Council,
not
the
mayor.
A
D
A
Not
the
cheapest
yeah
there's
how
many
departments
do
we
have
in
the
city,
y'all
would
know
better
than
I.
Do
I
know
one
great
one:
several
we
have
several
departments
within
the
city
and
you're,
asking
the
the
mayor
or
the
chief
of
staff
to
ensure
that
these
things
get
done
at
the
PD.
That's
part
of
the
problem
and
not
this
mayor,
not
the
last
mayor,
the
mayor
before
any
mayor,
right
I'm,
not
putting
the
blame
on
anybody.
A
I'm,
not
calling
my
current
cheap
out
five
six
years
ago,
that'd
be
John
Barber
right
and
we
we
don't,
have
it
yet.
That's
a
problem,
there's
no
accountability.
So
if
you
all
want
something-
and
you
don't
get
accountability,
imagine
what
it's
like
for
the
people
in
the
streets
who
demand
accountability.
If
you
can't
get
it,
we
definitely
gonna
get
it.
A
On
the
ship,
George
I
agree
with
you,
I
agree
with
you
100
now,
but
this
issue
didn't
happen
last
year.
This
issue
has
been
here,
I've
been
here
since
91..
It's
been
an
issue
since
91
and
if
you
talk
to
folks
that
have
been
here
since
the
60s
that
say
the
same
thing
right,
this
is
not
a
brand
new
issue.
This
is
not
a
brand
new
issue.
A
A
Some
of
the
other
issues
that
this
community
is
dealing
with
is
an
issue
because
of
Staff
shortages,
but
this
particular
issue
has
been
happening
for
years
and
when
we
had
enough
officers
to
address
it,
we
didn't
when
you
asked
for
accreditation
five
six
years
ago,
we
certainly
had
enough
officers.
Then
right
we
even
had
Community
police
officers,
bad
thing.
We
have
people
riding
bikes
back
then,
so
we
we
were
at
a
place
where
we
could
have
addressed
this
issue
and
we
didn't
so
now.
A
Here
we
are
so
for
me,
all
I'm
saying
is
whatever
is
going
on
in
ipv,
whatever
staffing
issues,
whatever
whatever
whatever's
going
on
in
that
house.
That's
not
my
problem,
that's
not
the
problem
for
the
community
I
represent
because
when
they
had
enough,
they
didn't
address
this
issue,
and
this
is
part
of
the
problem.
The
whole
reason
we're
here
graffiti
keeps
bringing
it
up.
If
this
is
a
reaction
to
George
Floyd
people
are
upset
because
for
years
this
has
been
happening
to
us
and
it
hasn't
been
taken.
A
Care
of
the
PD
hasn't
held
themselves
accountable,
and
this
is
how
we
got
where
we
are,
because
they
didn't
hold
themselves
accountable.
They
just
said
we
have
bad
police
officers.
You
got
to
go,
we
have
you're
a
bad
officer.
You
got
to
go,
you
did
this,
you
got
to
go
every
other
place
of
employment.
We
get
rid
of
folks
in
this
PD.
A
A
It's
really
not
my
problem,
because
I've
been
dealing
with
this
for
a
long
time,
so
we
got
to
wait
what
four
or
five
years
until
we
have
a
robust
police
force
again
like
that's,
you
keep
putting
it
on
us,
the
idea
that
things
can't
get
done
because
we're
short
staffed
and
we
have
to
wait,
that's
on
us
because
we
deal
with
those
repercussions.
We
deal
with
those
outcomes.
A
D
A
A
The
officers
who
are
on
road
Patrol
have
to
deal
with
the
brunt
of
what
you're
talking
about
the
officers
that
are
in
administration
should
have
been
administrated
right.
They
should
have
been
doing
these
things.
This
is
why
they're
in
administration
so
I
understand
what
it
looks
like
on
the
street
and
on
the
road
and
I've
gone
to
the
meeting.
We
have
the
meetings
on
the
West
Side
we've
had
the
meetings
out
north
side.
A
We
have
meetings
all
over
this
community
about
the
increase
of
violence
and
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
address
all
those
things
and
ipd
is
in
a
very
bad
way,
because
they're
Sure,
Staff
I
got
the
front
line
I
get
that,
but
behind
the
scenes
these
are
things
that
from
the
chief
down,
they
should
have
been
working
on
these
things
like
this
is
that's
that's
a
reality.
I
wouldn't
disagree
with
that.
A
That's
what
I'm
saying
I
understand
that
if
you
have
three
officers
on
a
ship
out
in
the
streets,
first
of
all,
that's
insane
to
me.
This
city
is
way
too
big.
There's
way
too
much
happening
to
have
three
officers,
I,
don't
even
think
four
or
five
officers
is
enough
to
be
out
on
the
street,
especially
with
the
uptick
in
crime
and
the
things
that
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
good
folks
are
dealing
with
this
in
the
community
dealing
with
in
this
community.
So
it's
not
to
me
about
the
front
line
officers
in
that
way.
A
D
We've
been
talking
about
things
that
we
used
to
have
some
of
the
issues
that
Pro
solver
instituted,
follow-up,
etc,
etc.
Community
peace
officers
are
you
saying
things
were
just
as
bad,
then,
as
they
are
now.
A
A
Where
what
lands
are
they
looking
at
policing
through?
It's,
not
their
fault.
This
is
what
they
were
trained
in
APD
that
we
we
have
a
a
robust
one.
This
is
Ithaca
again,
so
if,
if
your
leadership
represents
one
group
of
the
PD
and
you
keep
pressing
that
way,
this
is
what
that's
going
to
look
like
this.
It's
just
what
it's
going
to
look
like,
so
what
I
would.
A
G
Chew
me
up:
no,
no,
no
I'm,
not
gonna
cheer
you
up
I'm,
just
saying
we
gotta,
listen
and
hear
Travis
everything
that
you've
said
has
been
on
point
all
that
these
problems
didn't
happen
just
this
year
and
yes,
no,
yes,
it
has
been
affecting
black
communities
throughout
the
years
this.
This
new
talking
about
this
new
wave
and
crime
and
I
what
I?
What
I'm
saying
is
I
totally
agree
with
Travis
that
we
have
to
really
look
at
Administration
and
how
they
are
responding.
G
G
E
I
also
agree
that
my
experience
with
working
with
the
community
police
officers
that
there
were
many
ways
that
they
were
marginalized,
I
think
within
and
and
I
agree
and
I
heard
that,
like
we
were
doing
the
social
worker,
policing
and
I
think
you
know
what
we
don't
want
to.
What
I
would
recommend
not
replicating
is
that
same
model
with
an
unarmed
response
that
there's
sort
of
status
quo
and
then
there's
this
other
and
that
you
know
we're.
E
You
know
instead
of
addressing
the
underlying
systemic
issues,
the
systemic
racism
and
I
agree
I
also,
this
is
not
I,
don't
know
that
I
feel
like
I.
Don't
have
quite
all
the
words
for
this,
but
I.
E
Also
I'm
thinking
back
to
I
was
speaking
with
someone
about
a
month
and
a
half
ago
who
participated
in
the
task
force,
who
participated
and
I'm
thinking
about
what
she
said,
because
I
don't
wanna
I'm
paraphrasing
what
you
said
here,
but
feeling
that
that
she
is
a
Community
member
and
it
was
asked
to
be
vulnerable
right
and
to
share
her
vulnerability
and
share
her
pain
and
share
her
experiences
and
feeling
like
that
had
been
discounted
in
the
process
and
and
then
that
there's
a
lot
of
white
people
sitting
around
the
table
talking
and
I
about
them.
E
D
E
And
I
and
I
think,
is
there
something
you
said:
Travis
I
really
made
me
think
about
this
earlier
and
now
I
can't
I'm
kind
of
track
back
what
it
was.
You
said
that
sort
of
triggered
this
thought
for
me
and
made
me
think
of
this
person.
I
was
talking
about,
but
I
think
we
have
to.
E
It
goes
back
to
everyone
what
I
I
think
what
what
is
being
said,
the
underlying
that
that
there's
some
underlying
assumptions,
assumptions
there's
underlying
findings
but
I
think
in
realities
that
were
reflected
in
the
task
force
report
and
reflected
from
the
voices
of
the
community
and
keeping
the
process
centered
in
that
reality.
E
You
know,
there's
there's
this,
this
woman
in
Toronto
Burke.
She
was
the
black
woman
who
founded
the
metoo
movement
me
too
movement
way
before
it
became
like
twitterized,
and
you
know
Hollywood
and
she
came
to
speak
in
Parnell
in
the
before
times,
and
she
was
really
speaking
to
service
provider.
D
E
And
so
yeah
I
feel
like
I'm,
not
at
my
market.
Articulate
at
this
point
right
now.
I
also
didn't
get
enough
sleep
last
night,
but
I
I
just
felt
the
yeah
I
mean
I.
Think
the
major
really
make
sure
that
we're
still
centering
that
and
that
we
also
didn't
ask
the
community
to
do
or
parts
of
our
community
to
do
labor
that
you
know
that
that
were
and
I
know,
I'm
jumping
into
the
middle
of
a
conversation
here.
I
want
to
really
recognize
that,
but
I've
really
been
reflecting
on
that.
E
Since
my
since
the
conversation
I
had
a
couple
of
months
ago,
that
made
me
think
about
it
tonight.
B
Okay
are
reluctant
to
follow
on
that.
I
feel
like
I
was
very
valuable
point
and
mine
is
going
to
be
like
hyper
narrow,
but
it's
just
the
way
that
my
brain
works
like
going
back
again
to
the
community
policing
rather
than
Community
police
officer
thing
and
trying
to
translate
that,
through
the
perspective
of
being
in
the
position
where
we
can
mandate
policy
change
right,
I
I
draw
the
analogy
to
you:
know:
I
work
at
Cornell's,
midday
job
right,
I
draw
the
analogies
like
faculty
incentives
for
various
things.
B
Can
we
look
into,
for
example,
are
we
able
to
require,
as
a
condition
of
promotion,
that
someone
satisfactorily
complete
a
rotation
in
you
know
a
a
more
Community
but
Frontline
community,
policing
role
that
that
like,
but
as
we're
looking
for
you
know,
succession
planning
in
administration
and
Leadership
positions
that,
like
they
were
sending
a
message
to
the
workforce
in
this
case
being
PD
right
that
these
are
things
that
we
really
value,
and
this
is
not
a
box
checking
measure.
This
is
the
thing
that
you
know.
B
If
you're
looking
to
advance
in
our
organization,
here's
a
way
that
you
can,
you
know,
demonstrate
that
additional
value
of
the
organization
I'm
not
at
all,
suggesting
that,
like
this
one
off
off
the
cuff
idea,
is
a
solution
to
anything
but
I'm.
Just
I
guess
I'm.
Just
sharing
like
this
is
how
I'm
trying
to
like
take
some
of
the
extremely
like
Salient
and
big
Concepts
that
we're
grappling
with
right
now
and
trying
to
get
like
The
Germ
of
a
of
a
direct
intervention
and
like
what
can
we
do
as
next
steps.
C
I
mean
I
I
appreciate
that
sentiment,
but
I
also
know
that
people
need
to
come
in
with
a
particular
mindset
in
order
to
embody
that
position
and
do
it
well
and
come
away
from
that.
But
I
I
understand
where
you're
coming
from
in
that.
Going
back
to
my
question
about
operationalizing
things
and
I
I
hear
you
about
people
having
been
very
vulnerable
in
sharing
their
story
and
and
submitting
that
to
this
work
and
it's
traumatic,
I
mean
I.
I,
feel
it
in
you
I
feel
in
all
of
this.
C
As
we
talk
through
these
things
and
I
when
I
think
about
that
feedback,
loop
what's
been
really
hard,
is
I
think
that
there
has
been
a
siloing
of
conversations
that,
yes,
the
conversations
were
important
and
they
informed
individuals
who
then
took
those
conversations
forward
and
then
conversations
about
this
group
brought
this
forward.
But
you
didn't
have
groups
hearing
from
each
other
talking
with
each
other
and
actually
having
to
to
be
present
in
that
and
when
we
think
about
healing.
E
C
C
It
feels
like
part
of
that
conversation
and
as
much
as
I
know
is
traumatic
and
we
don't
want
to.
You
know
re-traumatize
individuals,
but
how
can
we
also
build
in
that
that
feedback
we're
both
having
a
conversation
with
a
colleague
earlier
and
to
your
point
about?
We
have
individuals
who
we
know
are
the
problem
and
they
get
promoted
and
promoted
and
promoted,
and
then
you
find
out
well,
nobody
ever
issued
a
complaint
or
the
complaint
didn't
get
registered
and
then,
when
they
come
up
for
promotion,
they
sail
all
the
way
through
and
the
rest
of.
C
Minute,
how
did
this
person
get
in
that
position
and
part
of
it
is
the
people
who
were
injured,
didn't
either
have
a
ways
means,
or
confidence
or
or
knowledge
of
how
to
actually
bring
that
feedback
back
so
that
we
don't
end
up
replicating
the
same
thing
over
and
over
and
over
again
thinking
that
we're
doing
a
great
job
right,
and
so
we
can.
If
we
don't
suppose
that
we
can
look
at
all
the
policies,
we
can
look
at
the
training.
C
C
But
these
people
didn't
know
how
or
or
didn't
feel
confident
or
just
chose
to
check
out
the
entire
situation
at
all
and
then
what
we
thought
was
working
was
actually
flawed
or
in
some
ways
causing
more
trauma,
because
we
just
kept
at
it
again
and
again
so
again
like
how
do
we?
How
do
we
operationalize
it?
How
do
we
bring
this
back
and
know
that
we're
actually
making
the
kinds
of
successes
that
we're
aiming
to
achieve?
C
A
He
says
something:
Brad
was
talking
about
the
you
know:
community,
policing
and
having
them.
You
have
to
have
the
mindset
to
come
in
you
actually
don't
what
you
have
to
have
is
people
who
are
determined
within
the
PD
to
ensure
that
everybody
develops
that
mindset,
Brandon
Goldsberry,
who
our
hold
is
a
high
standard
for
community
policing
incoming
with
that
mindset.
The
person
that
I'm
voted
in
his
trainer
did
that
for
him
he
has
done
that
for
others.
A
That
officer
who
trained
him,
who
no
longer
is
with
ipd
his
trained
campus
officers,
brought
them
all
to
GA,
brought
them
and
and
helped
them
build
relationships
with
certain
people
in
the
community
that
wasn't
something
they
came
in
with
necessarily,
but
it
was
part
of
the
culture
that
this
officer
was
trying
to
develop.
So
that's
one.
So
when
we
were
asking
people
to
share
their
stories,
this
wasn't
for
the
PD
to
have
an
exchange
or
for
people
to
to
heal.
That's
part
of
the
recommendations.
That's.
A
Happening
now
right,
this
was
for
us
to
say
to
folks
who
are
supposed
to
be
making
a
shift,
making
the
change
coming
up
with
something
for
for
us.
This
was
an
opportunity
for
us
to
download
I
can
promise
you,
your
90
of
those
folks,
wouldn't
have
had
that
conversation
with
ipd
at
that
moment.
Why
would
they
they're
already
expressing
that
they
had
these
negative
interactions
and
then
to
to
to
sit
in
the
room
and
do
that?
A
Then
you
know
those
folks
need
some
time
to
heal,
and
that
was
part
of
this
whole
Community
healing
process,
the
the
ipd
healing
process
and
then
to
bring
them
together.
That
goes
a
very
well
laid
out
plan
to
do
exactly
what
you
were
asking
to
be
done.
That
wasn't
ipd's
time.
That
was
our
time
to
share.
A
A
It
is
part
of
the
recommendations
to
do
this
community
here,
which
has
been
stalled:
Out,
Time,
After,
Time,
After,
Time
and
and
that's
a
shame,
because
that's
something
that
could
have
been
it
should
have
been
happening
this
whole
time.
That
was
like
low-hanging
fruit
that
we
could
have
been
doing
this
whole
time.
The
other
thing
about
folks
getting
promoted.
A
This
is
very
difficult
because
I
don't
want
to
put
people's
names
out.
That's
not
what
I'm
here
to
do
tonight,
but
it's
not
just
that
the
community
is
aware
of
these
things
and
the
part
of
this
goes
back
to
policy.
We
have
a
main
Community
Police
board
and
it's
been
Lane
forever,
because
there's
no
team
people
come,
they
make
these
complaints.
There
could
be
findings
and
then
that's
it.
There's
a
finder
and
nothing
tangible
happens
after
that,
and
so
people
stop
making
complaints.
People
stop
going
to
the
police
board
because
nothing
ever
happens.
A
It's
policy,
it's
policy
policy
policy.
You
can
change
that
policy,
so
people
can
come
and
make
these
complaints
for
some
folks
that
have
been
promoted
over
the
last
10
years.
There
are
folks
sitting
in
this
room
they're
very
aware
of
the
things
they've
done.
It's
been
very,
it's
been
in
newspapers,
it's
been
out
there
in
the
community,
people
have
been
founded
for
things
and
it's
still
not.
They
didn't
just
lose
their
job.
They
have
rose
up
in
the
ranks
of
the
PD,
so
there's
stuff
that
exists
that
we
all
know
about
we're
all
aware.
A
We've
talked
about
some
of
those
things
I'm
not
here.
To
put
anybody
on
blast
tonight.
We've
had
those
conversations,
we
know
we
can
go,
pull
up.
Newspaper
articles
right,
so
we
can't
say
that
people
it
rolls
through
because
nobody
reports,
because
people
have
been
family
for
things
and
it
still
rose
up
through
this
police
department
and
that's
a
shame.
There's
policy
policy
policy.
G
I
and
I
I
just
have
to
thank
you
again,
but
I
just
have
to
say
when
you
ask
and
say
ask
for
the
people,
the
people
in
the
report,
re-imagining
Public
Safety
findings
and
the
what
they're
asking
us
to
do.
That
was
their
way
of
they
use
that
time
to
ask
the
the
I'm
getting
it
all
mixed
up
now.
But
what
we're
working
on
the
reimagining
public
safety
manual
that
they
gave
us
what
their
suggestions
and
recommendations
that
came,
because
people
came
out
and
shared,
and
that's
where
these
recommendations
came
from.
G
Also,
you
cannot
get
people
to
sit
in
a
room
and
heal
if
one
party
is
not
accepting
their
responsibility
and
I
talk
about
this
all
the
time.
I'm
a
recovering
addict
I've,
been
in
recovery
for
23
years,
and
the
only
way
that
I
could
ever
begin
to
work
on
my
problem
of
addiction
is
when
I
found
acceptance
and
was
able
to
acknowledge
it,
and
it's
the
same
and
and
and
the
way
things
started
out
with
the
ipd
against
RPS,
no
one.
D
I
was
part
of
the
task
force,
as
was
Travis
and
I
can't
go.
I
can't
honestly
say
that
all
the
recommendations
that
came
from
the
reimagined
task
force
were
rooted
in
those
very
real
problems
in
our
community.
That
people
took
a
chance
and
and
told
us
about
so
I
I.
Don't
think
it
was
that
simple
and
I
I
think
the
recommendations.
D
Some
of
them
are
flawed,
which
is
not
to
say
that
I
think
ipd
gets
a
free
pass
and
and
shouldn't
face
basically
what
the
stories
that
Travis
is
sharing
with
us
tonight.
D
My
problem,
the
problem
I'm
dealing
with
right
now
is
one
of
the
main
recommendations
that
we're
tasked
with
is
what
to
do
with
this
unarmed
wing
of
city
government.
Now
I've
heard
tonight
that
it's
more
about
how.
D
Professionals
respond
to
a
situation
and
whether
or
not
they're
a
police
officer
or
an
unarmed
person
and
I'm,
also
hearing
that,
please
don't
make
the
same
mistake
of
just
making
these
unarmed
people
unarmed,
Community
police
officers
and
be
siled
in
the
same
way
they
have
been
impact.
So
what
purpose
should
these
people
have?
What
job
should
they
do?
That
will
really
benefit
the
community.
G
A
To
me,
if
I
was
to
answer
that
question,
because
your
co-response
model
I'm
not
looking
for
these
folks
to
do
police
work,
I
think
that
these
folks
should
be
doing
co-response
work,
whether
it's
domestic
violence,
whether
it's
mental
health
issues,
we
can
could
say,
here's
the
5,
10
15
20,
whatever
here's
here's
the
amount.
These
are
the
things
that
these
folks
are
going
to.
Co-Respond
to
this
is
what
we
would
like
them
to
respond
to.
We
don't
need
to
correspond
to
everything,
but
here's
the
here's,
the
five
new
ones.
A
This
is
what
we're
looking
for
the
empirical
responses.
They
don't
have
to
do
like
police
type
work
like.
Why
should
they?
They
should
be
folks
that
are
trained
to
do
covert
response
work.
I
mean
that
to
me
gets
us
to
a
place
where
we
have
better
outcomes
when
everything
is
said
and
done
both
for
the
people,
the
victim,
the
the
person
who
who
could
be
the
perpetrators.
So
to
speak,
the
person
that's
dealing
with
issues,
even
the
ipd,
everybody
wins
with
a
co-response
model.
A
We
talk
about
how
many
officers
we
have
right
now
on
a
beat.
You
got
three
officers.
This
evening
you
have
somebody
up
and
down
West
Street
street,
that
has
mental
health
issues.
That
is,
that
is
in
one
of
those
those
moments
and
our
officer
is
dealing
with
them.
For
45-50
minutes,
I
watched
the
videotape
of
a
friend
of
mine
who
who
suffers
from
mental
health
issues
he
had.
He
was
on
Facebook,
live
and
three
different
stores
for
about
two
hours.
A
If
there
was
a
cool
response,
Model
A,
Travis
Brooks,
a
robber
George,
could
have
went
and
and
and
and
worked
with
him
to
help
him
figure
out
what
he
needed.
What
was
going
on
with
him
and
the
officers
could
have,
went
and
went
back
and
did
police
work
right
when
we
talk
about
co-response
type
models,
it
takes
a
half
an
hour
for
somebody
for
an
officer
to
respond
to
a
call
decide.
A
person
is
rightfully
make
the
phone
call
and
pass
them
off,
and
then
you
have
better
outcomes
for
that
person.
A
If
you
arrest
that
person
you're
going
to
spend
two
three
four
hours,
you
know
how
many
officers
they
have
putting
people
in
lead
to
just
two
we've
been
running
for
years
and
change.
We
have
two
officers
that
utilize
it.
Why
leadership
down
right?
It's
actually
saves
officers
time.
So
if
there's
two
offices
on
and
I
can
get
George
in
a
program
and
and
go
do
some
other
police
work,
then
cool
I'm
out
a
domestic
violence.
A
You
have
officers
say
you
have
everything's
cool
for
your
people,
it's
safe
and
they
take
over,
and
then
you
just
have
hopefully
such
a
different
outcome
for
everybody.
That's
involved
in
that
situation
like
to
me,
and
we
you
know
during
the
the
reimagining
process,
we
went
back
and
forth
in
that
particular
group
and
like
some
of
the
ideas
like
for
me,
this
is
what
this
is,
what
we
have
and
we
we
have
a
model,
that's
operating
in
Rochester,
that's
working!
Well.
We
have
folks
here
that
were
involved
in
that
before
that
can
help.
A
A
For
me
right,
like
let
people
who
do
that,
do
that
and
let
those
officers
get
back
to
the
idea
of
policing
if
I'm
tied
up
for
an
hour
and
a
half
on
a
mental
health
call,
but
I
have
this
issue
over
here
we
have,
we
have
a
domestic
over
here.
We
have
this
and
somebody's
waiting
for
an
hour
and
a
half.
A
It's
not
the
officer's
fault
right,
we're
short
staffed,
but
this
is
a
way
for
them
to
get
back
to
doing,
and
it's
one
of
the
things
they
ask
for
like
we
talked
about
like
how
did
we
marry
the
situation
with
the
PD,
they
gave
a
bunch
of
recommendations
to
criminal
Council.
The
PDA
before
we
a
co-response
model
was
part
of
that.
So
if
they
said
this
is
what
we
want.
This
is
what
we're
willing
to
do
and
we're
saying
this
is
something
that
we
think
could
work.
This
is
something
that
we
want
to
do
then.
A
D
A
D
D
Including
the
city,
so
the
city
certainly
has
dipped
its
toll
into
mental
health,
and
we
can
certainly
be
a
bridge
between
people
in
crisis
getting
to
the
right
services,
but
the
city
can
before
nor
there
isn't
there
duty
to
provide
Mental,
Health,
Services.
A
A
If
you
look
at
the
Rochester
model,
they're,
not
five
licensed
social
workers.
Some
of
them
are
people
with
lived
experiences.
We
went
to
the
the
national
our
production
conference
a
few
months
ago,
And
when
everybody
dipped
out
in
covet
in
New
York
City.
The
people
that
took
care
of
people
that
were
struggling
were
people
who
had
lived
experiences
right,
a
person
with
lived
experience.
A
Sometimes
it's
better
somebody
with
a
degree
and
dealing
with
those
situations,
so
George
I'm
not
I'm,
not
suggesting
that
the
county
give
up
Mental,
Health
Services
and
in
those
situations
it's
a
cool
response
and
a
correct
moment
of
crisis.
Rob
is
the
social
worker
that
works
at
at
for
the
county,
I'm
the
co-responder
I
come
I
mean
he
was
used
to
be
because
you're
right
across
for
me
and
what
I
do
when
I'm
working
with
Cynthia?
In
that
moment,
I
tried
to
bridge
Cynthia
with
Rob
for
long
term
right.
A
G
I
I-
and
this
is
I'm
glad
you
brought
up
the
part
about
lived
experience
because
I
really
have
been
sharing
when
I
was
working
with
with
Mutual
Aid.
No,
no.
No,
when
I
was
working
with
Multicultural
Resource
Centers,
we
had
created
a
response
team
right
for
going
out
when
things
came
up.
What
I?
What
I?
What
I
wanted
to
say
is
they
are?
There
are
community
centers?
There
are
places
in
our
community
that
already
keep
our
communities
safe,
giac,
South,
Side,
the
creative
Hub
Multicultural
Resource
Center.
G
There
are
other
Ithaca,
the
village
of
Ithaca
there
we
have
organizations
that
we
could
pull
upon,
that
are
community
members
that
have
lived
experience,
that
people
are
comfortable
with.
So
that's
why,
for
me
a
long
time
what
was
pushing
me
away
is
keep
hearing
about.
We
have
to
make
sure
that
they
are
social
workers,
therapists,
psychiatrists
and
just
not
talking
about
people
who
are
already
doing
the
work,
Grassroots
organizations
in
our
community.
G
That's
doing
this
work,
keeping
our
community
safe
people
always
already
use
them,
so
I
I
think
I
think
there's
a
way
that
we
can
all
work
together,
because
I
think
the
the
important
piece
that
I
think
I
keep
remembering
is
I
want
to
sort
of
all
work
together,
because
that's
the
only
way
it's
going
to
work,
ipd
community
community
activists,
everybody
I'm!
Thank
you.
E
Yeah
I
think
I'm
also
supportive
of
the
co-response
model.
I
think
that
I
think
I
have
a
lot
of
time
to
be
spent
trying
to
find
like
the
perfect
flow
chart
of
which
calls
where
and
there's
still
going
to
be
so
much
gray
on
that
flow
chart
about
who
responds
where
and
I
think
a
lot
of
time
and
energy
is
going
to
go
into
that
instead
of
the
work
potentially
I,
think
co-response
model
has
real
value,
I
think
it's
also
being
realistic
based
on
the
amount
of
staff
that
my
understanding
is.
E
That's
been
proposed
like
what
kind
of
cover
like
what
will
like
what
what
roles
and
expectations
are
appropriate
for
that,
because,
like
they're
not
going
to
be
taking
over
Mental
Health
Services
right
like
that,
that
would
need
to
replicate
this
whole
other
large
system,
I.
Think
of
being
that
Focus
bridge
and
I
was
thinking
about
a
situation
we
had
not
that
long
ago,
at
our
shelter
we
operate
confidential
domestic
violence,
shelter
where
we
had.
We
had
a
very
significant
crisis
there
and
we
ended
up
with
ipd
there.
E
It
was
three
to
four
hours
it
crossed
over
two
shifts.
I
will
say
they
were
fantastic
and
caring
and
responsive
and
now
on
escalating
and
the
response.
But
we
didn't
necessarily.
We
really
didn't
need
law
enforcement
there.
We
needed
something
to
help
bridge
for
this
client
in
a
different
way
to
these
other
systems
and
to
have
established
established
relationships
with
the
crisis,
mental
health
Team
and
with
the
hospital
and
with
you
know,
and
be
able
to
negotiate
that
and
I.
E
A
E
I
do
think
that
that's
what
this
role
could
really
be
valued
and
because
I
also
I
get
really
Twitchy
when
we
start
to
also
put
a
mental
health
model
on
community
problems
and
again
there
are
some
social
workers
who
are
operating
in
a
really
macro.
E
Community
focused
solution
way,
but
when
we
start
to
focus
on
this
mental
health
model,
when
we're
talking
about
other
structural
inequities
in
the
community
I
get
and
even
when
we're
talking
about
domestic
violence,
also
I
get
really
Twitchy
and
so
I
think
that
not
trying
to
replicate
a
mental
health
model
is
actually
a
strength
of
this.
Not
a
deficit.
D
E
C
E
E
The
labor
market
is
real
right
now
and
getting
people.
This
is
difficult
work.
We
would
be
asking
people
to
do.
I
think
it's
really
good
important
work,
it's
exciting
to
think
about
these
other
models,
but
you
know
I
I,
think
I
think
cost
savings
is
not
you
know
versus
painful.
You
know.
Social
workers
aren't
paid
that
well
in
this
time,
they're.
B
A
draft
a
concrete
proposal
but
I
think
that
I
think
that
would
be
helpful
tools
to
do.
But
you
know
I
mean,
as
as
the
community
members
all
right,
I've
circulated
a
draft,
a
proposed
idea
that
I,
don't
necessarily
think
it's
the
final
answer
of
his
question,
but,
like
again,
the
way
I
think
about
operationalizing
things,
I
think
would
be
productive.
I
would
just
humbly
suggest
that
it'll
be
productive
for
us
to
like
have
a
a
a
diagram
so
to
speak.
To
then
start
picking
away
at
to
say,
like
you
know,
how
would
we?
B
D
Bullseye,
are
we
all
going
to
try
to
do
that
or
does
someone's
gonna
try
to
do
that
or.
D
Talk
about
it
yeah.
Obviously
we
have
to
talk
about.
If
we're
talking
about
the
same
document,
you
have
to
get
buy-in
from
the
Departments
yeah
provide
the
space
and
I.
Don't
think
I,
don't
think
we're
looking
at
an
exact
copy
of
the
Rochester
model,
because
they've
got
a
threat,
50
or
60
people,
and
then
that's.
D
Have
been
emailing
with
sent
their
they've,
got
four
different
departments
and
and
deal
with
victims
of
murder
and
we've.
A
A
Right
I
mean
we
have
community
outreach
workers,
we
have
lead
if
you
had
a
five.
If
you
had
a
co-response
model,
my
suggestion
would
be
to
either
create
a
department
or
use
an
existing
Department,
especially
one
that
I
wouldn't
even
say
we
use
an
existing
department
and
and
put
them
together,
because
you
have
this
natural
flow
of
things.
You
have
folks
who
are
always
out
and
about
right
in
community
outreach
workers.
A
You
have
people
who
are
going
to
be
responding
crisis,
and
then
you
have
a
program
that
says:
okay,
we
work
with
folks
that
are
struggling
in
these
ways
and
you
kind
of
have
this
this
thing
flowing
a
little
more
and
then
you
have
all
this
different
conversation
about
folks,
because
I
can
guarantee
you.
A
25
of
them
are
going
to
pop
up
in
each
one
of
these
areas
right
and
so
then
you
can
just
like
really
build
out
this.
This
program,
that
that
hits
in
very
different
ways
across
the
board
for
for
a
lot
of
different
folks
in
the
community
and
the
Outreach
workers,
for
the
most
part,
have
a
really
good
relationship
with
the
PD.
We
have
showed
what
a
relationship
can
look
like
with
Lee
and
the
officers
that
participate
and,
and
what
that
can
and
should
I
mean
that's
what
to
me.
E
From
you
yeah,
you
know:
I
I'm,
thinking
about
yeah
I've
been
really
involved.
I've
been
coming
alongside
of
the
script
of
economy
and
past
that
rich
career,
which
is
folks
who
are
working
with
folks
who
are
living
rough
and
living
in
the
encampments
and
I,
and
certainly
enjoyed
you've,
come
to
a
couple
of
those
meetings
as
it
when
we've
had
larger
Community
I
used
to
talk
with
that
group
and
I
think
about
you,
know
the
role
of
the
Outreach
workers
and
how
that
I
feel
like
that
was
a
catalyst
for
other
things
happening.
E
The
same
thing
here
is
that
it
would
have
a
structural
value
of
supporting
a
different
kind
of
response,
but
then
also
create
both
identify
where
more
needed
to
happen
and
create
opportunities
than
whether
it's
in
collaboration
with
other
organizations,
whether
it's
raising
those
questions
about,
where
are
the
other
places
where
things
need
to
change,
whether
it's
identify
ing
the
places
in
the
system
where
things
aren't
going
as
we
want
them
to
in
our
community.
E
But
again,
I
think
we
have
to
have
clear
expectations
about
what
their
role
is
right
and
what?
What
are
the
outcomes
that
how
is
the
program
being
designed
to
meet
those
stated
outcomes?
Whatever
those
stated
outcomes
are.
B
Want
to
say
one
more
thing,
just
just
one
very
small
request:
I
just
was
wondering
if
Travis
it
wouldn't
be
questioned
in
a
position.
I
think
I
would
love
to
know
in
an
email.
Maybe
just
as
you
think,
about
the
policy
discussion,
we
talked
about
earlier.
Any
thoughts
you've
had
about
how
to
get
more
folks
when
they
opt
in
to
you
know,
lead
or
how
we
can
sort
of
provide
more
robust
support
for
that,
but
I
withdrawal
tonight,
but
just
we'd
appreciate
your
thoughts.
Thank
you.
D
We
can
continue
this
discussion.
This
is
this
has
been
powerful.
In
my
opinion,
this
has
been
progress
and
again
I
would
be
surprised
that
James
learned
lots
that
did
I
want
to
thank
Michael,
Heather,
Travis,
I,
don't
think
Melody,
you
guys
are
welcome
to
come
back
anytime.
You
want
I
mean
I
I.
D
Ask
you
on
that,
and
we
will
next
month
are
our
normal
time
to
meet,
is
kind
of
messed
up
because
the
edc's
changing
there
time
because
of
Christmas,
and
so
we
don't
really
have
a
the
spot
yet,
but
we'll
work
on
that.