City of Laredo, Texas Historic District / Landmark Board, 8 Apr 2021

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From YouTube: Historic District\Landmark Board Meeting 040821

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Historic District\Landmark Board Meeting 040821

A

I'd like to call this meeting of the historic district landmark board april, the 8th 2021 to order and I'd like to call roll. Mr robert david gonzalez,.

B

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Maria elena morales.

A

C

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Christina villarreal present wayne nance president stanley green.

D

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Priscilla iglesias.

A

Here, mark gonzalez.

D

President, here.

A

Justin allen hunts nurture.

A

I don't know vanessa: did he request an excused absence?

A

He did he mentioned to us last meeting that noon meetings would be impossible for him, and so I was hoping that we could continue to meet at a time that was convenient for all members.

A

Perhaps we can discuss that later. Mr snyderman.

A

Rebecca sepulveda present, so we have a quorum item. Three approval of minutes. Has everyone had an opportunity to review the minutes that were sent in our packet.

E

A

Is there a motion to approve the minutes.

D

I'll make a motion to approve a minute.

C

uh When you make a motion or a second, can you please provide your name for the record mark gonzalez.

F

Making the motion wayne nance providing a second.

C

A

So there's a motion and second to approve the minutes all in favor and you want to post.

A

A

A

Item for a public hearing and consideration of a motion to consider facade and site improvements at 1519 matamoro street in the saint peter's historic district case number.

A

Hd0042021, do we need a motion to open the public hearing? Mr snyderman.

C

uh No ma'am not yet we have a staff presentation, we'd like to share and then at the end you can at the end of that you can speak with the applicant and then at that point maybe open the public hearing. We can put the number up for the public to call all right. Can we proceed with the presentation?

C

Please miss vanessa.

G

Sure the applicant for this this case is caira properties owner arturo tomas venavides is the applicant. The property is located at 1519 matamoro street in the historic residential office. District request is to renovate and restore the exterior of the of the existing structure, including painting. A facade, removal of accessory structures and replacement of fencing proposed exterior improvements require board approval. 20 letters were sent out, none were received either for or against.

G

This is a location map.

G

This is a an aerial view of the location. This is the front view of the structure.

G

There's a side view of the existing structure.

G

This is an existing site plan of the primary structure and the accessory structures.

G

This is a front and rear view, including a diagram of the wrought iron burglar bars.

G

This is a left and right side view of the existing structure.

G

This is a view of the fencing, the current fencing with the temporary chain link fence, and this is a schematic of the proposed new fencing.

G

This is the color that they're proposing to paint the exterior white hyacinth.

G

And these are pictures of the typical cracking that they're proposing to repair and some of the typical damage that is seen throughout the existing structure.

G

Staff recommends approval, the proposed improvements are compatible with the secretary's standards for rehabilitation and illustrated guidelines for rebuilding rehabilitating historic buildings. The improvements are also compatible with the city's historic preservation plan and the urban design guidelines. Also, the applicant will be improving and activating a currently vacant property. For all these reasons, staff recommends approval and there's the proposed motion either to approve or deny the request, uh the application um for hd-004 2021 for the proposed improvements, and this is the number that the public may.

G

G

um That's the end of my presentation.

A

Do we have someone for the applicant that will speak on behalf of the item.

G

B

D

G

In washington, we can't hear you kirby.

C

I'm sorry about that, mr washington go ahead.

D

Yes, uh no, I was saying I'm here.

A

Would you like to say a few words and about your proposal or.

C

um If I, if I may, maybe it's a little easier since we just gave the presentation john of what you're proposing, could we ask if any of the the board members have any questions for the applicant for john specific questions that he can answer, so he doesn't have to reiterate. Anything we already just reviewed is that okay.

A

That's fine. Are there any questions from the board.

C

And we will notify you if anyone from the public calls.

A

A

How long should we wait for public comment.

C

There's about a 30 second lag, so if we're receiving any will we would we'll be able to notify you here already and we're not receiving anything.

A

Okay, so there's no no comments or input from the board any questions about the proposed changes to this building.

B

Clarification, I'm sorry.

D

H

I didn't actually this is christina. um I really didn't get to review uh the packet very well, because um I didn't. I don't think I got it, I'm not sure, but I tried to download it online and what I was able to retrieve online just for clarification. The bars are already there. The burglar bars kirby.

C

D

They are yes, they are there. Yes, ma'am.

H

Okay and what is for my clarification, what is uh going to be painted.

D

Well, we're just going to try to make them look nicer, we're going to make them look more like the the wrought iron fence, so we're going to have that more like that design. Not just have them playing the way they are.

B

D

Kind of looks like a gel right now.

H

Right; okay: that was my clarification just to make sure that I understand where the paint was actually going to go.

D

Oh the paint, the penis, the paint will build on the whole house.

D

Entire house, the entire house has uh damage on the siding, the facade, the concrete facade.

D

In order to stop it, we need to seal it real good and paint it with a good paint and there's a lot of repairs, a lot of country, repairs and there's no way we're going to match the existing concrete with new concrete, and we need to caulk, not caulk, but mp1 a lot of cracks so with an industrial caulking.

D

In order to cover all that up, we need to put a really good paint on there.

H

So, um as far as the guidelines go kirby, what uh what does it say about painting original material? Because that house is not currently painted right? It's original material.

C

That's correct but, as mr washington stated in this condition, while that looks like stone, it's it's in fact concrete and it's permeable, and it's because of that, and because it was never sealed, maybe initially it was sealed, but it wasn't maintained over the years or maybe it wasn't ever sealed because concrete's permeable it it can degrade over time and that's what they're seeing so they want to be able to to do those repairs, but in doing that and resealing it it would be.

C

It would leave it inconsistent, so they want to have it uniform and to achieve that uniform look. They need to paint over it with a painter and sealer, so it'll both protect and give it a uniform color.

C

So that is that is compatible with the secretary of tears guidelines. You know generally paint is not looked favorably upon, except in the cases where it can can help maintain the the the structure or the uh the material. In this case, that's what it's gonna be doing. It's not just aesthetic. It's also for for.

C

B

And you had also asked about the burglar bars. The reason why we want to keep them on. There is just because, in the past, we've had problems with break-ins people have used it for housing. You name it. It's happened in that house, so that's one reason why we want to leave the burglar bars on there, but we'd like to make them look a lot nicer than what they currently are.

B

So we will definitely be dressing them up and you had asked about painting I'm not sure if there's any regulations on the painting for the burglar bars, but if there are colors that we need to to choose from on those, we would be happy to do so and represent that to the board.

C

Could you introduce yourself just for the for the record man.

B

I'm sorry this is leslie benavidez. My husband is the owner. Arturo benavidez.

C

A

Are there any other questions from the board.

A

If not, I I would like to request a motion to approve her deny.

D

Stand green I'd move, we approve.

F

Man, so I second that motion I, I reviewed the plans and.

A

So there's a motion and a second to approve the application for the proposed improvements located at 1519 matamoro street. All in favor of the motion raise your hand.

A

I

A

I believe we have a the motion passed.

C

Yes, ma'am, mr washington, ms benavidez, thank you very much. You you can log off now and if you have any questions, uh miss ghetto will assist you after the meeting.

A

Thank you. Thank you very much.

D

Thanks everybody thanks a lot it'll.

A

Be a great improvement to seems. Thank you.

E

Thank you bye-bye, bye-bye.

A

The next item is item 4b, public hearing and consideration of a motion to consider facade improvements at nine two zero itu vida street in the old mercado historic district.

A

uh Will staff make a presentation.

G

Yes, ma'am uh vanessa gotta for the record again, uh the applicant is frank properties, limited partnership and it's the owner, uh julian rodnovsky's representative. The property is located at 920 degree street in the arts and entertainment district. uh The request is the installation of an led neon sign on the east side of the building. Again 20 letters were sent out, I had neither none were received either for or against.

G

This is a location map.

G

This is an aerial view.

G

This is sort of a front view of, and this is the the I guess, rear view of the property where the prop which sign is proposed to be installed- and this is the proposed sign- you'll see it. It shows the the color of the lettering, um the size of the font.

G

This is a day and a night view of the of the proposed sign.

C

uh Note that this this was assigned previously at the el centro hotel, historic science.

G

This is a site plan showing the location of the of the placement of the site and the elevation of the sign all placed on the on the on the wall.

G

Again, staff recommends the the approval of the proposed improvements um they're compatible with the secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation and illustrator guidelines for republican historic buildings, they're also generally compatible with the city's preservation plan and urban design guidelines, and, while the proposed um the proposed improvements are located on the side of the building, which is generally not recommended, the proposed improvements preserve a historic sign and do not obscure any character defining feature of the building. For those reasons, staff recommends.

G

And there's the proposed motion either to approve or deny their request of the application, and this is the phone number where the public can call in.

C

And mr polda, we do have miss frank here to speak. The representative was not able to be here if the commission, if the board has board members, have any questions she's here to answer.

A

I have a question um I I'm assuming, but perhaps she can clarify. This is not truly a sign for the function of the building, but it's more of an artistic addition. Sort of like a mural would be, or is that correct.

E

Yes, that is correct.

A

So I I would like to see if, when we approve this motion, we can add some language to that, because I don't know whether we should be approving this as a sign when it's not a sign. This is more of a of an art public art and I think it has a different function than a sign than a regular sign. Would I don't know if you agree with that? That's.

C

A a good point miss a good opportunity to review that whenever something comes before this dork board. This is one step where, if something does require a permit, this doesn't guarantee that they'll get that permit. So when this is evaluated by the building department- and that is a good question that will probably be discussing- because this is not well- it is technically a sign. It's not a sign in the sense that we, uh you know it maybe should be regulated more as a mural.

C

So that's going to be definitely a discussion that building department will have with the applicant. This doesn't guarantee them approval of any any permit that they may need. This is just the approval. They'll need for the historic district to make this change.

A

And they're also signed signed uh restrictions in our guidelines that discuss dimension color. All of that, so I don't think we should apply any of that to this particular sign, because this is more of an artistic expression. So.

C

Yes, by by approving this you'll permit, it.

A

C

Well, you'll allow it, but it still has to get it, may still have to get permitted by the billing department.

A

I just don't said president regarding signage at this point, because it's not a sign it's so it's public art all right. Are there any other comments from the board.

F

Yes, I'm curious where this uh work, forgive me for not knowing, but where was as central motel. Where was this thing taken from the address.

E

E

And before they turned it into a parking garage and uh remove the sign to save it,.

F

Okay, so it's in the ivc uh place right off the 35.

E

And downtown that's where it was located. No little bunkie.

E

I guess it's a.

A

F

Okay, no, that's good! That's interesting, but.

E

Across the street they have a uh like about the spaces there. They poured down below okay,.

F

I I guess I'm just curious uh this. Doesn't uh this doesn't have anything to do with the way that I vote here, but I'm just curious. I guess the thinking was that it matches the corridor of the bars, and you know in that area which which are you know, a nice thing, and I guess this just expands on that uh this property and will make it more.

F

I guess uh unleashable or more desirable, for a similar uh use in that area. Is that the thinking or.

E

E

E

um We we have had the sign in storage for about eight years, and uh we wanted to figure out a place to you, know, use it, and um you know in in las vegas, there's a there. They collect all the old signs that are not used anymore and they put them up in different places.

E

You know it's kind of like part of a historic, you know referencing part of the historic parts of downtown, even though they're not there anymore. These are remnants of them and uh we thought it would be a nice addition to the street.

C

Mr nancy, I had to mute you because we were getting some feedback, so if you need to you can um mute yourself.

F

Oh excuse me I I said I feel that it. Yes, it kind of matches the character of that street of that avenue. So yes, I agree. I was just curious about the where you were going with that. Thank you. That's all.

C

And we didn't receive any comments from the public.

A

All right, so there's no public comment. Do I hear a motion to approve or deny the request.

D

uh Mark one thought, as I make a motion to approve.

A

There's a motion and second to approve the request for the proposed improvements located at nine two zero iturubide street, all in favor show of hands.

A

Anyone opposed.

A

The motion passes. Thank you very much.

C

Thank you miss frank, um don't forget this.

E

Time, nice to see everybody, don't.

C

Forget that this does need to go to the building department, uh for review and, and let us know if we can help in any way with that you can contact ms guerra after the meeting and she'll be happy to help and assist in that sure. Thank you very much.

A

Thank you, and I I'm sorry, but I I did intend for the motion to perhaps be amended to reflect that we were not approving a sign but we're improving a public, a piece of art, and perhaps the minutes can reflect that. Okay, thank you.

H

Kirby, I have a quick question for you. If I excuse myself for about two minutes, you all still can proceed right. Okay, I'll be right back.

A

Okay. The next item is item 5a, 1 staff presentation and recommendation on a proposed ordinance amendment clarifying that only activity which requires a building permit and is not considered repair or maintenance requires landmark board review.

C

Okay, to give a presentation it'll be a fairly brief okay. So let me review with you the existing ordinance. There are a couple. There are several places in the code that refer to the historic district landmark board, two main ones in the beginning and then towards the middle. uh They both speak to.

C

Some of the powers and duties of the historic board in those historic district, but where it's most succinct is in section 24.66.4, and this was shared with you in the in the packet. This is the part, that's not italicized, so it reads number one and two. So this is existing code. This is what's already on the books.

C

No permit shall be issued for the alteration, construction, demolition of any structure located in historic, district and or any locally significant historic landmark without approval of the historic district landmark board, um provided, however, that immediate demolition may be ordered by the building official for any structure and imminent danger of collapse, which is, in the opinion of the building official, represents significant threat to public safety. Number two under provisions related to historic districts and locally significant landmarks.

C

Number two is no permit shall be issued for the installation of any sign or monument in historic district without prior approval of the historic district landmark board. So I brought this up before to the board, and that is that what the code says is the city can't issue permits for these activities? It doesn't speak to activity. That is not permitted so reading this, and and as as a city, staff and city government, when we're in person enforcing ordinance, we are required to go with the most generous interpretation.

C

That's that's the legally safe way to go, not to interpret this to say, hey well, it doesn't talk about unpermitted activity. So let's say that all that has to be approved as well.

C

When I read this, I read what this is: restricting is permanent activity, because the city's not allowed to issue a permit, but it doesn't say we can restrict unpermitted activity. Now when I brought this up previously, the historic board members said: well, that's not the way we've been interpreting it. You know over the years, and so what we talked about then was. We need to make it clear one way or the other. So that's what we're suggesting with the number three so number one and two talk about. We can't issue permits for for these activities.

C

Number three is going to make this very clear, so the line is is easily understandable for anybody, applicants and city staff and board members- and it would read following activities- are exempt from historic district landmark board review a the proposed use interior arrangement or interior design of any structure, b, repairs and renovations to existing buildings which do not alter the exterior appearance c activity which does not require a building permit. Indeed, the addition repair renovation of utilities and services such as power, water, sewer and communication lines.

C

Now I want to note that a and b are already in the code they're just in that other section uh in the beginning of the code, and I want to have it all in one place so that an applicant, I could easily point to this and say hey. This is it's all in one place, so a and b are just a reiteration of what are already in the code.

C

C and d are the only things that are new activity, which does not require a building permit, and then you know utility lines now we did talk with uh or we did receive an email and we're going to have a communication with the texas historic commission. They made some good suggestions and I think, maybe, when we send this forward, we'll recommend as well to the city council, that we include a provision for administrative approval and what this would allow is says.

C

The historic district lambert board may authorize staff to administratively approve activities which require board approval so of the things that do require board approval. You can authorize us in a meeting like this to say: okay kirby. We don't want to have to hear all these these things you can administratively approve them when they fit these parameters.

C

So that's a that's a good recommendation. We can consider and then, uh mr pola, you did ask, we could give you some examples of what's permitted and not unpermitted. So generally, these are just some examples, but you know these are most common, so meeting with the building department talking about what requires a permit. In other words, what would still what would what would come before the historic board by the way everything brought to you today would have all you know they would have had to bring all that to the historic board for approval.

C

So it's generally most the stuff that people are bringing are before you already. What they're not bringing is things people don't think they need a permit for which they're, assuming they don't need historic approval for anyway. In other words, people are assuming the way we want to write. The rules are the way they are. So what would require historic approval? Are the things in the left which are permitted?

C

These are just examples: it's not an endless list, structural work uh site, obscuring fences, electrical fixtures, roofing, stucco and siding- requires building permit utility work, pools, palapas, building additions windows require permit if they're doing new windows.

C

I was incorrect about that last time. Ingress seagrass, if they're changing anything about ingress, egress driveways, you know and curb cuts which are changing the site. Those all require permits, so those would all still need to come before the board. What could, uh when we make that line? What wouldn't is landscaping would be uh doesn't require permits short see-through fences, non-electrical fixtures, an example would be. You want to hang a mailbox on your house that doesn't require a permit, so it's not going to require historic approval, doors and painting.

C

I know painting's a big one for you, but again it's not something that is structural, it's not something. That's permanent and and and so it doesn't require a permit. So that is um here's. The motion motion to recommend approval denial of the of the amendment to the land development code, section 24.66.4.2.

C

Any questions from board members.

I

Yes kirby: this is priscilla, I'm the executive director and I contacted the texas historical commission, mrs.

C

You're you're cutting in and out. Maybe if you suspend your video, it might be a little easier for us to hear you. Okay,.

I

Okay, can you hear me a little bit better yeah.

C

I

Okay, perfect, so um I contacted the texas historical commission regarding you know the discussion that we had at our last meeting. So I wanted to make sure that um you know painting that that issue that we have is is covered and that we cover it in any changes that we might be making.

I

So when I spoke to them um they're concerned, I guess their recommendation is not so much the colors or the schemes that we would be um approving or not approving, but it would be just making sure that um owners are not painting on brick or original materials to the house. So if painting is, is not doesn't need to be permitted, but how can we maybe incorporate something in there that you know if the brick is not already painted that they wouldn't be able to do that?

I

Only because that painting you know original material can sometimes cause more issues in the future and um for a historic home. So that's just kind of what.

H

I wanna I'm sorry kirby. I can interject, because this is a really good point that that priscilla brings, especially with the first item that we had for approval today. I think that's a perfect example of a building that has original material that is being painted over, and I do believe that that falls under line item b, where it says, repairs and renovations to existing buildings which do not alter the ex the exterior appearance. Well, that painting of that building is going to significantly alter the appearance of that building.

H

So in that case that paint job, I feel, should go through landmark board because they are painting over the original material. Of course it got approved today because there is a purpose for that. But at what point do you let the owner make that subjective?

H

uh You know, I guess a choice on on a very important building, because that's a building that many of us are familiar with, and that is going to be quite a change. It's going to be a good improvement, but it is going to be a change um so that kind.

B

Of that was a good that was a good.

H

Example, today of why that uh considering the paint is, is important.

C

Iglesias and miss villarreal is in this proposed motion. You could include a recommendation that um a recommendation to approve this with the addition that that uh paint is not exempt paint is something that you do want to have oversight of so so unpermitted activity, that's fine, except for paint paint.

C

You still want to come before you and then what we can talk about in a future meeting is how do we set it up administratively, where you can say these, these things are approved uh administratively, we could say: okay if you're repainting a different color, but it's these colors okay, it doesn't have to go the board. Administratively. We've already said we like these things, but if it's going to paint over original material that has to come to us for review. So in other words just say again, you could just approve this motion with the addition.

C

That paint is not it's not exempt and then we'll work out later. An administrative review of that.

F

um Just volunteering a little two letters- uh I don't know if this would take care of what uh what you were trying to address last time kirby and, at the same time respect what what everybody else is trying to do. uh Would the term repainting uh address that because uh you know obviously the bricks.

F

Today I mean they're not painted the everybody's correct, I mean if you're painting over bricks and stuff, that's not good, but I think what you're trying to do is make it easier for someone that already has, for instance, a wood veneer house and it's and it's blue, and they want to repaint it blue or yellow or whatever uh you're. I think where you're trying to go is to is to streamline that process, so the repainting would be allowed, but a new painting would not be allowed.

F

Of course you can handle that in your your upcoming administrative number. Four, but uh you know it kind of accomplishes the same thing as addressing it right now. Yeah.

C

That's a that's a good suggestion, so you could motion to recommend approval. I.

F

Would like to hear from the board if they feel that that's adequate or it needs a lot more detail to attention.

A

How does everyone feel about those suggestions?

A

I would also like to um include doors. I know we talked about windows or already requiring a permit. I just don't understand why a door would not require permit and going back to your very first opening discussion presentation, I think the word permit staff is, is new and has been interpreting the word permit. The way most cities do when you're going to a building official to request a permit, but we have been enforcing this ordinance, assuming that permit meant approval that meant appropriateness.

A

That meant our whatever we do to allow these things. Other cities have certificates of appropriateness.

A

I wish we had something like that instead of the word permit, but we don't, but we've been using it in that sense, not in the sense of building permit, but I agree what you're trying to do is to make things easier for the public and so you're trying to tie it to a function. That's already within the city's processes.

A

I can appreciate that, but if we can go back to the language of that draft, perhaps we could activity which does not require a building permit and which does not alter the exterior appearance would include paint doors windows. Anything like that.

C

Well, I would recommend against that, because that's already here under repair and maintenance, which doesn't alter existing experience, but we we want to allow alterations to the existing appearance that don't affect the existing structure, because what we're interested in preserving is the structure we don't care necessarily about the landscaping, the you know, minor fixtures that can be taken on and off easily the little things that generally won't require a building permit and and and that way we give more flexibility to the property owner because, as you know, all of you that are homeowners or renters, you know wherever you live, you don't sit down once a year and figure out everything you're going to do to your home and your property and then do it all at once.

C

You know you you're strolling, you know at home depending oh, that looks nice. Let me hang that up or let me do this. Let me do this little project this weekend. I've got some time but to have to come to historic approval every time something changes. The appearance, I think, is burdensome, but more than that, I think it actually they're just not doing it. I mean if you look in the historic district.

C

People are just not coming to you for a lot because they there's not a mechanism there to catch them versus having a fine line where, if it does require permit now, we know because it's going to come here to us and then it's very easy for us to enforce on that.

C

You know if we're, if and when we do have the staff ability availability to go into the neighborhood and patrol it in terms of looking for activity, that's not permitted. It makes a lot easier to have this clear definition, whereas it's been unclear for many years.

A

So how would you add the replacement of a front door.

C

So we could just you know your recommendation on this motion can be you recommend approval, except you want to exclude paint and doors. You still want to have oversight on painting doors, we'll work out the language, but we know what you're, what you're suggesting you want to still have a purview over new paint is one option or all paint and doors.

C

What about you still come to the board.

A

Yes, what about original architectural features? For example, if you have a victorian home with a you, know uh intricate um woodwork on your porch, but it's it's! um The wood is rotting, and so you you do not have to get a building permit to replace that all the pickets on that uh porch, but that alters the appearance of the property. How would you include that I mean if we're trying to be specific yeah. That's another example. My.

C

Recommendation would not be to include that in working with historic districts all over the state and also the nation there's a variation in where cities are at and where markets are at. You know in in downtown austin, that's a very different market than somewhere like laredo, where the resources maybe aren't there to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. Hundreds of thousands in some cases to do the restoration work. That market is certainly there in some of our bigger cities, but in our smaller cities.

C

What you find is, there's generally more room for the property owner to be able to make those decisions themselves with the trust that doesn't mean we're not involved. We can be involved in incentivizing. We can be involved in guiding, but we're not using a restrictive and we're not trying to to say no. You can't do this unless you do it this way, which is very expensive, and but we can always be there as a resource to say hey if you're interested in doing restorative work. We've got these resources.

C

We've got these possible um incentives and those are things we're going to be working on over the next year. As we update our our plans- and you know things we talked about last time, but I I would recommend if you're asked, if you're looking for staff recommendation, that we don't we shouldn't.

C

We don't need to go that far and we can't go that far given the market, given the situation of the the state of the condition of our historic district.

H

I have a a a question kirby, um I know you're saying that um letter b has was already part of the ordinance. I guess my situ my issue with it is that what what is defined as an altered to the exterior appearance? What is that based on? Is there a definition for that is that well defined?

H

What might be what one perceives as altering the exterior appearance of something you get?

H

What I'm saying, because to me yeah we could put in the word paint, but if it wasn't there, I would still think that that was included in in that I, I guess, what mississippi without saying, is it's important to to define things a little bit uh better, also, um my time on the landmark board, and even before I was on the landmark board, I went for many years and I always thought that we would only oversee changes that were uh to the facade of the building that were visible from the street.

H

I don't know of any of the other people that have served on this board had that same interpretation of what part of our role was, but I think that that is also something uh I don't know that I I would maybe want to clarify. I know you said that that language is not in the in the ordinance, but I think it should be clarified, because, if somebody's making uh some sort of uh repair that you know to a balcony or something that is not visible from the street, well, you know.

H

uh Maybe you shouldn't have to come to landmark board.

C

Well, I would argue that it should, if it's, if it's affecting the structure, if it's not a repair renovation, then it should come to you, because we want to preserve that and we don't know in the future if that will become visible or how it will affect the rest of the structure. If you start making additions to the back, so I think it's important. The way it's written is is good. You don't want to be so defining that you're you're.

C

You know we can't be exhaustive in all the situations. To me, it's pretty clear. This is covering repair and renovations, so it's not all activity, it's repair and renovations.

C

This is b repair and renovations which don't alter the exterior appearance, so that I mean clearly, if somebody's changing something where the appearance is altered, then then you know, okay, that that is something that needs to be brought to the board versus if they're, just going to repaint or they're just going to fix something a railing that was, you know, that's already there and nothing nothing's changing visually. It's not changing.

C

I think the the way that maybe wasn't practiced is because, if somebody is making changes to their backyard- and we can't see it, how are we gonna enforce that? You know I think practically, um but just because that's the case, I wouldn't want someone to assume they can make changes to their structure, which that's the that's the most important thing we do as a historic board is we're protecting that structure, because a lot of these little things these paints and these fixtures it can be changed easily.

C

Once you start altering the structure now you're losing something you can never get back, and so that's that is very important. I wouldn't want someone to think they could alter that without board approval, just because it's in the rear, you know which a lot of people are doing, but we again we want to be clear if something went to get a permit.

C

The building department knows: oh okay. We can't issue this building permit because it's affecting um the the appearance, it's not a repair and maintenance. It's a perfect! It's it's a change and even though it's in the back historic district still needs to approve it and then they'll evaluate whether or not it's it's uh a good change or not.

C

In other words, my explanation is, I think, as written here, that this is good. This is a huge improvement. It doesn't mean that this is the last we'll ever change, but I think it's a huge improvement overall currently.

A

So if staff were to receive a request under this new language, that would change the color, isn't that considered altering the exterior appearance? Doesn't.

C

G

A

Under that language,.

C

Yes, but it's not a permitted activity so so the way it flows in number three is you know a is anything interior? We're not we're not reviewing that b. You don't have to bring in you know if it's a repair maintenance, whether or not it requires a building permit. If it's preparing maintenance- and it doesn't change the existing appearance, then they don't need to come to historic board, so they're just preparing something and it's going to look the same. It's going to stay.

C

The same c is all other activity which doesn't require building permits so regardless, if it changes the appearance, if it doesn't require a building permit like landscaping- and you know uh non-electrical fixtures things like that- that's okay that doesn't have to come. Those are minor things, don't have to come to the board of approval and then d.

C

uh These things generally do require building permit, but they're meant to service the building. I don't think you want to come here every time someone wants to get. You know a satellite connection or an internet connection. You have to make them come to you to hook up the.

C

I don't think you want that and we don't think that'd be good either, so we're exempting that now, that's as written, if you want, like I said you can say um you can, we can add a we'll write in a couple lines that say, if we're changing the color or if it's new paint, if it's new paint, then that we want still to go to the board and if it's doors, if you're changing the doors, then we want that to go to the board. That can also be your recommendation with this motion.

C

If those two areas, I would argue, if you're asking me, I would argue that you, I don't think you need to make the addition for the paint. I think we've already got a I've made this statement before we've got a large mix of paint, colors and styles in the district. We don't have a historic vernacular. We don't have an overarching vernacular that we're trying to stay true to we've got a you know a rainbow palette in all of our districts, and I I would like I feel with me.

C

I would recommend leaving it up to the property owner to make that decision, and what you see is that generally property owners will make good decisions in terms of um you know what they don't buy, these properties to degrade them. They buy them because they want to invest in them and take care of them, and I I would err on the side of trusting the property or that they're going to do that.

C

But why have historic approval because, on the most important things, the biggest things the structure we want to take a look at that make sure they're doing it right on the little things that can be changed like paint we shouldn't, we shouldn't burden the property owner to have to come every time they want to do something minor.

C

We should have a clear line in the sand and let them have the same freedom that the rest of the property owners in laredo would have to make those decisions themselves and but on the big things, come to you that's my recommendation.

C

My recommendation is as written it's good, but if you want to add anything onto that as a recommendation, certainly your you can as a board.

A

I would like to see staff come up with some kind of a matrix that is used when an applicant comes or calls and says I want to do this. You can send them some some uh chart that says, if you're going to replace a door. Yes, you need approval if you're going to change a window use. Yes, you need approval. If you're going to paint uh over original brick or other masonry, those kind of things is, I think you need to have some specificity to it.

A

It's again very generic, which is something that I thought you were trying to avoid from the beginning, and so I think we do need to have some specifics.

A

That will help and guide the public on what things they can and can't do, and these can be easily put on your website and people can just read along a little matrix chart and find out what what requires approval.

C

Thank you, that's a good suggestion and when, when the council makes their decision on this, we will you know we are in the process of developing those kind of resources for applicants. So, yes, my just to reiterate my recommendation is to recommend approval, as it's written, of course, as a board.

C

If you want to modify or if you want to deny this or recommend denial towards you or if you want to recommend approval, but with additional provisions, that's certainly within your purview to do so as a board, but this provides a clear line of what does and doesn't require historic approval.

C

But, yes, it does err on the side of being generous with the property or allowing them to make decisions on unpermitted activity, which I trust, the property owners they're going to do a good job and what we want to do is get them to be compliant and not get them to try to sneak it in and do it themselves. So I think it's good as with these additions and uh but if you think otherwise, certainly you could you could make it.

H

Martial uh something on administrative approvals: technically, you know if it, if somebody if we did include hate.

C

I'm sorry could everybody mute themselves, but but chris, let me spirit so that there's not the echo. Thank you.

H

If, if we should move to approve as presented with the provisions of still overseeing uh paint and doors, they can add the clause about administrative approvals. Technically, they could just go to you and if you believed that it was something that really didn't require uh waiting, you know for the next meeting and that would kind of shorten that period. Correct.

C

Well, if, if you agree with the provision of administrative approval, which um I you know, I think we need a process there well, we need the authority there in the code for you to give us authority for administrative approval. So with that, then, at a future meeting we could figure out what you're comfortable with staff approving and what you're not comfortable with staff approving we can come up with some recommendations and work on that in the future, so yeah. That is a good. That is a good suggestion.

H

And then on the permitted activity, it says short fences, what's classified as a short fence.

C

uh I believe six feet if it's above six feet, it requires a building permit, also, if it's above, if it's using certain materials which are not opaque, which aren't see-through, also requires a building permit like masonry fences. So not all fences require building permit. Some do.

H

See the the issue with with the fences is like somebody brought up the cyclone fences. I know it's, it's a cheaper uh solution and I I don't believe that it provides any extra protection. You know if the protection thing is what people are saying, they feel more protected with a cycle of fence. I don't think so. I think that could be easily uh climbed over, but um that is something that definitely changes the the building. You know it really.

H

uh I agree that the city needs to find a way to incentivize, um helping the property owner, build the appropriate fence to safeguard that building, but until we have a feasible way of doing that, I I don't feel I don't feel comfortable with that, including the.

H

C

Now, when you're ready, mr polda, we could entertain a motion if, if you.

A

Are there any proposed wording, changes or is someone ready to make a motion to approve or deny this request.

C

Recommend approval or denial.

H

I I have a proposed motion, but I want to make sure that that this is uh that incorporates everything I think that we've all voiced um okay here here we go. uh I moved to approve the laredo land development code, section 24-66-42 uh amendments as presented with the inclusion of oversight still being on doorstep and fencing to still come before the board and for the motion to also include implementation of board of administration approval contingent on the board. Setting parameters on that future.

A

Is there a second to that motion.

A

We have a motion and a second to approve recommendations with the modifications that miss cristina villarreal has stated, and I'm sure she'll provide to staff.

A

All in favor of the motion raise your hand and you want to post.

A

And you want to post.

A

I

Passes if I can also just make a quick comment um just for kirby years um side of it so you're aware what main street and provide as a service to the main street district. But if we could help you on other resources, we'd be more than happy to, but we provide design guidance and assistance for any building um in the main street.

I

And so, if you, you know, wanted information on that or you point people to our direction. Be able to assist with that and all of that.

C

Okay, um we're missing a slide on director's comments, but, like usual, I just want to say thank you all for very much for your service and uh we will keep you up to date as we move this recommendation forward and with that. uh Thank you very much for your time today appreciate it.

A

Thank you. Do I hear a motion to adjourn.

A

Do we need emotion to adjourn? uh No ma'am, you don't. Okay, all right, then no further business. We are adjourned. Thank you very much. Kirby and staff and.

F

Have a good good.

A

F