►
From YouTube: August 22, 2023 Heritage Preservation Commission
Description
Additional information at:
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A
I
call
to
order
the
August
22nd
regular
2023,
regular
meeting
of
the
Minneapolis
Heritage
preservation
commission.
Thanks
again
for
your
patience,
while
our
commissioners
were
stuck
in
traffic
for
the
record,
my
name
is
Barbara
Howard
and
I
serve
as
chair
of
the
commission.
Just
a
reminder
to
please
silence
your
cell
phones
and
any
other
electronic
devices
and
speak
clearly
into
the
microphone
whether
you're
speaking
up
here
at
the
diocese
or,
if
you're,
giving
public
testimony.
Would
the
clerk
please
call
the
roll
so
that
we
may
verify
the
presence
of
our
Quorum.
Commissioner.
C
D
A
A
We'll
work
from
the
agendas
that
are
available
over
by
the
clerk
I'll
go
through
the
agenda
and
sort
out
any
items
to
be
withdrawn,
continue
to
a
future
meeting
which
items
will
be
discussed
and
which
items
will
we
put
on
a
consent
agenda
to
be
approved,
as
recommended
by
staff
and
without
further
discussion
item
number
four
3801
Pleasant
Avenue
Ward
8..
This
application
is
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
Item
number
four
is
recommended
for
consent.
A
Unless
someone
wants
to
speak
in
opposition
to
or
modify
the
staff
recommendation
item
number
five
is
Falls
initiative,
project,
intensive
survey,
intensive
architectural
history
survey
and
traditional
cultural
property
survey.
This
application
is
for
review
and
comment
pursuant
to
section
106
of
the
National
Historic
preservation.
Act
item
number
five
will
be
discussed
without
a
public
hearing.
So
the
proposed
agenda,
a
consent
agenda
item-
will
include
the
following
item:
number
four
3801
Pleasant
Avenue,
Ward
8..
Is
there
any
opposition
from
Commissioners
to
the
staff
recommendations
for
this
item.
A
Okay.
Thank
you
very
much.
So
the
following
item
will
have
staff
presentation,
public
comment
and
commission
discussion
and
action
item
number
four
3801
Pleasant,
Avenue,
Ward
8..
The
following
item
will
have
staff
presentation
and
commission
discussion
without
a
public
hearing,
that's
item
number
five
The
Falls
initiative
project,
intensive
architectural
history
survey
and
traditional
cultural
properties.
Survey
Commissioners
may
have
a
motion
to
approve
the
proposed
agenda.
A
F
B
A
Those
opposed,
say,
nay,
any
abstentions,
van
Derek
abstains.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
Commissioners
van
Derek
and
booty.
The
minutes
are
approved
before
I
open
the
public
hearing
two
public
comments.
Let
me
summarize
the
process
we
will
take
each
of
the
agenda
items
in
order
for
the
public
hearing
item
planning
staff
will
present
its
report
and
then
Commissioners
will
be
asking
questions
of
Staff.
Then
I
will
open
the
public
hearing
and
we
will
hear
from
the
applicants
and
Commissioners
mask
questions
of
that
applicant.
After
that
we
invite
public
comment.
A
If
you
wish
to
speak,
you
need
to
do
two
things,
please
be
sure
to
sign
up
on
the
sheet
that's
over
by
the
clerk.
If
you
haven't
done
this
already,
you
can
do
so
afterwards
and
when
you
come
up
to
testify,
you
must
state
your
name
and
address
for
the
record.
Please
keep
your
comments
specific
to
the
application.
That's
before
us
today.
A
If
you
have
any
materials
to
hand
out,
you'll
also
have
to
give
those
to
our
committee
clerk
so
that
they
can
be
distributed
to
the
commission
and
entered
into
the
public
record.
Do
not
approach
the
Commissioners
on
the
dice.
After
the
public
comments
are
complete,
I'll
close
the
hearing
and
Commissioners
will
deliberate
and
act
on
the
application
before
us.
A
H
C
H
H
H
The
Church
of
the
Incarnation
historic
district
design
guidelines
adopted
by
the
HPC
in
2018
States
under
Section
J
new
additions
to
existing
buildings.
Number
two
new
editions
shall
be
designed
in
a
manner
that
makes
clear
what's
historic
and
what
is
new
in
accordance
with
the
Secretary
of
the
Interior
standards.
Addition
shall
be
compatible,
subordinate,
reversible
and
inconspicuous,
with
limited
visibility
from
the
public
right-of-way.
H
The
small
size
of
the
cooler
Edition
will
remain
clearly
subordinate
to
the
over
four-story
Church,
which
you
can
see
in
the
background
of
the
rendering
here
to
which
it's
proposed
to
be
attached.
Exterior
brick
on
this
elevation
will
be
removed
and
salvaged
for
reuse
reuse
in
the
addition's
wainscoting
proposed
to
be
capped
in
a
narrow
two
inch
band
of
limestone,
which
will
demonstrate
compatibility
with
the
adjacent
historic
one-car
garage
stall
while
differentiating
it
from
that
garage.
Stall's,
14-inch,
Limestone
band.
I
H
With
its
14-inch
Limestone
band,
much
wider
than
the
smaller
two
inch
band
of
limestone
atop,
the
proposed
wainscoting
on
the
proposed
Edition
smooth
Hardy
panels
on
the
addition's
walls
will
further
demonstrate
compatibility
with
a
historic
one-car
garage
on
this
edition's
East
or
rear
side
adjacent
to
the
alley.
The
applicant
proposes
to
install
Hardy
panels
designed
to
resemble
garage
doors,
which
you
can
see
here
in
sort
of
a
gray
color,
to
prevent
these
from
looking
like
garage
doors
which
will
create
a
false
sense
of
History
staff,
recommends
the
project
be
conditioned
to
ensure
the
wall.
H
The
application
meets
all
other
findings
required
by
the
city's
Heritage
preservation
regulations.
So
for
that
reason,
cped
recommends
the
Heritage
preservation.
Commission
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
add
one
accessible
ramp,
construct
one
new
food
shelf
storage
building
and
remodel
one
attached
garage
at
3801,
Pleasant
Avenue
in
the
Church
of
the
Incarnation
historic
district
subject
to
the
conditions
listed
in
the
staff
report,
I'm
available
for
any
questions
you
may
have
and
I
know.
The
applicant
is
here
as
well.
I
With
this
application,
our
business
address
is
575
Southeast,
9th
Street
here
in
Minneapolis,
in
addition
to
representatives
from
the
church
that
are
here
today,
I
also
have
with
me
representatives
from
the
design
team,
snow
cry
like
Architects
and
also
Albertson
Hanson
architecture,
and
we
would
respectfully
request
that
the
HPC
approve
our
certificate
of
appropriateness
for
the
proposed
ramp,
Food,
Shelf,
Edition
and
food
storage
garage
and
adopt
recommended
staff
conditions.
I
I
just
want
to
provide
a
little
bit
more
context
on
the
locations
that
were
determined
upon
and
considered,
as
we
were
considering
where
to
install
these
three
items
on
the
church
property
just
to
provide
a
little
more
context
to
what
staff
previously
shared
regarding
the
ramp
you'll
see
the
site
plan
in
front
of
you
there
on
your
screen,
so
the
in
addition
to
the
north
facade,
which
is
where
the
ramp
is
currently
proposed,
the
applicant
also
looked
at
installing
a
ramp
on
the
south
or
the
east
side
of
the
church.
You
can
see.
I
Excuse
me,
as
I,
try
to
work
them
Mouse
and
speak
into
the
microphone.
You
can
see
that
on
the
east
side
of
the
property,
the
Ali
right-of-way
conflicts
with
any
ramp
Edition
that
could
be
put
on
there
in
addition
to
the
fact
that
below
grade
excavation
would
be
required
to
access
the
lower
level
at
that
point.
I
Similarly,
the
south
side
of
the
church
does
have
a
very
steep
staircase
that
provides
access
to
the
lower
level,
but
the
size
of
that
shaft
is
really
too
narrow
to
accommodate
an
existing
ramp,
and
there
was
a
photo
of
that
that
shaft
in
your
package
that
you
received
and
then
of
course
the
West
facade,
is
the
the
primary
facade
of
the
church
facing
Pleasant
Avenue.
I
In
regards
to
the
Food
Shelf
Edition,
the
existing
garage,
which
is
now
actually
a
food
shelf,
it
was
converted
to
a
food
shelf
in
2020
through
a
certificate
of
note,
change
that
went
before
staff
at
that
time.
That
existing
garage
was
chosen
as
the
location
for
the
food
shelf
Edition,
not
only
because
it
currently
functions
as
a
food
shelf,
but
because
that
is
a
really
architecturally
insignificant
component
of
the
church's
campus.
As
staff
mentioned,
the
church's
period
of
significance
does
go
through
1963
and
includes
the
construction
of
this
garage.
I
However,
it
was
not
designed
by
masqueray
who
designed
the
church
and
really
it
doesn't
contribute
to
the
church's
architectural
significance,
which
is
why
this
location
was
chosen
and
specifically
installing
the
addition
on
the
east
side
of
the
garage
where
we
have
those
existing
door.
Openings
allows
for
a
really
economical
construction,
where
we
can
reuse
those
existing
openings
to
provide
access
to
the
cooler.
I
The
church
also
did
look
at
trying
to
evaluate
its
existing
interior
space
to
see
if
they
could
accommodate
more
food
storage
at
the
interior
rather
than
constructing
a
new
building.
However,
that
available
space
is
really
limited
to
the
lower
level
of
their
rectory
building,
which
is
not
accessible
and
is
not
workable
for
food
deliveries
and
distribution.
I
In
closing,
the
all
three
of
these
items
were
really
designed
to
first
of
all,
increase
accessibility
to
the
church,
particularly
to
its
elderly
residents,
and
also
do
provide
expanded
capacity
for
its
food
storage
and
distribution
program,
which
has
really
been
growing
over
the
past
three
years,
and
the
church
has
been
working
with
City
preservation,
staff
and
other
City
staff
for
the
past
several
years
to
plan
for
these,
improvements
to
the
property
will
remain
available
for
questions.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
time.
F
D
D
It
wasn't
part
of
the
historical
fabric
of
the
of
the
designation,
and
it
seems
like
this
is
giving
them
a
false
sense
of
importance
and
I
recognize.
The
applicant
said
that
or
I
think
Dr
Smalley
said
that
the
applicant
wasn't
trying
to
imitate
garage
doors
but
I.
Think
almost
anybody
who
would
drive
by
there
would
think
that
they
were
garage
doors.
So
I
would
approve
of
this,
but
I
think
that
we
should
they
should
get
rid
of
the
the
panels
facing
the
alley.
A
A
Would
that
be
both
the
the
wall
panel
design,
as
well
as
the
brick.
H
That
the
proposed
wall
panels,
which
you
see
here
in
Gray,
shall
not
retain
that
same
pattern
that
the
panels
on
the
south
side,
which
you
see
here
in
dark
brown,
those
would
be
wrapped
around.
There's
no
specifications
regarding
the
wainscotting,
the
way
staff
anticipated
it
it.
Wouldn't
it
really
wouldn't
extend
around
it-
would
simply
be
a
change
in
design
of
panels.
Would
that
satisfy
your
concerns?
Commissioner?
Melbourne.
H
The
painted
Hardy
panels
would
be
redesigned
to
resemble
these
to
match
these
dark
brown
panels
on
the
southern
side
of
the
building.
So
the
principal
change
would
be
that
the
this
sort
of
a
four
over
four
Division,
if
you
want
to
call
it
that
would
just
become
a
three-part
division.
H
D
I'm
sorry
I
didn't
mean
here
after
you
for
me.
That
would
not
satisfy
me,
because
I
think
it's
still
going
to
read
like
a
garage,
okay,
they're,
going
to
read
like
three
garage
doors,
which
that's
I,
think
it's
misrepresenting
what
they
are,
and
you
know
frankly,
if
this
was
somebody's
piece
of
property
anywhere
in
the
city,
they'd
be
able
to
do
that,
but
because
it's
coming
before
us
I
think
it
creates
a
false
sense
of
use,
which
I
think
gives
it
more
importance
than
it
really
is.
D
A
A
I
do
think
it
would
be
kind
of
awkward
to
have
the
the
Hardy
panel
going
down
to
the
the
ground
there,
but
I
don't
know
that
it's
enough
to
to
change
it.
Did
you
want
to
try
to
put
together
a
motion
with
a
new
condition
and
then
I'll,
look
to
our
Architects
and
see
what
they
might
be
able
to
do.
A
Foreign,
no
other
Commissioners
have
thoughts.
I
I,
agree
with
staff.
I
think
the
the
as
it's
currently
designed
it
is
the
the
faux
garage
door
would
be
inappropriate.
I
think
it
does
present
a
a
false
sense
of
history
and.
C
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard,
I,
guess,
I'm
curious,
maybe
the
applicant
can
jump
in
is.
Does
that
change
the
use
of
of
the
new
space
at
all?
If
those
party
panels
were
no
longer
there
in
the
redesigned
form,
I
guess
as
maybe
that's
the
another
architect
could
help
answer
that,
but
that
would
be
my
concern
is
that
if
that
changes,
their
the
use
of
which
is
the
purpose
of
building
the
new
structure.
A
Yeah,
it's
my
understanding.
Those
white
doors
are
not
usable,
correct
yeah,
so
it's
just
a
change
in
design.
Okay,.
D
All
right,
I'm
going
to
make
an
attempt
at
a
motion
here:
I
proposed
that
condition
one
be
Rewritten
to
say
the
East
facade
will
be
revised,
so
the
wainscoting
is
continuous
along
the
East
Elevation
with
brick
below
and
the
brown
panels
above.
A
I'm,
seeing
nods
that
that's
possible
from
the
applicant
other
Commissioners
have
thoughts
on
that,
or
would
someone
like
to
second
the
motion.
J
K
D
You,
okay
I.
The
I
would
propose
that
the
recommended
motion
read
the
Heritage
preservation.
Commission,
approves
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
add
one
accessible
ramp
construct,
one
new
food
shelf,
storage
building
and
remodeled
one
attached
garage
at
3801,
Pleasant
Avenue
in
the
Church
of
the
Incarnation
historic
district
subject
to
the
following
conditions:
condition
one
the
East
facade
is
to
be
revised
with
the
Wayne's
coat
to
be
continuous
on
the
East
Elevation,
with
brick
below
and
brown
panels.
D
C
B
D
E
A
L
Good
afternoon
Vice
chair,
San,
Boltz
and
Commissioners,
my
name
is
Aaron
K
and
I'm,
a
city
planner
in
the
historic
preservation,
subsection
of
the
Department
of
Community
planning
and
economic
development
or
cped
I'm.
Here
today
to
introduce
the
Falls
initiative
project,
which
is
undergoing
a
section
106
review.
The
Minneapolis
Heritage
preservation
commission
is
participating
as
a
Consulting
party
and
is
providing
review
and
comments
at
different
stages.
L
L
Federal
Agency
for
this
project
is
the
U.S
Army
Corps
of
Engineers,
a
programmatic
agreement
among
the
U.S
Army
Corps
of
Engineers,
the
Minnesota
state,
historic
preservation,
office
or
shippo,
and
the
City
of
Minneapolis
has
been
drafted
and
is
currently
under
review
in
the
section
106
process.
We
are
at
step
two
with
the
identification
of
historic
properties
in
Fall,
2022
Consultants
from
106
group
prepared
an
archaeological
and
Architectural
history,
literature,
review
and
assessment
to
understand
what
cultural
resources
have
already
been
identified
in
the
vicinity
of
the
project
area
and
what
else
may
need
to
be
studied.
L
L
Specifically,
the
survey
recommends
the
complex
as
individually
eligible
for
listing
in
the
nrhp
under
Criterion,
a
in
the
areas
of
Transportation,
Maritime
history,
industry
and
commerce,
and
under
Criterion
C
in
the
area
of
engineering.
The
recommended
period
of
significance
under
Criterion
a
is
1963-1976
and
the
recommended
period
of
significance
under
Criterion
C
is
1959-1963..
L
The
Intensive
architectural
history
survey
included
21
properties
associated
with
the
complex
among
which
13
are
recommended,
as
contributing
and
eight
are
recommended
as
non-contributing,
because
they
were
built
before
or
after
the
period
of
significance,
and
the
component
properties
are
shown
here.
On
this
map
with
orange,
signifying
contributing
and
yellow
signifying
non-contributing.
L
The
Upper
St
Anthony,
Falls
Lock
and
Dam
Falls
within
the
boundary
of
omni
Omni.
As
shown
here,
this
site
is
significant
to
the
Dakota
community
on
Whose
ancestral
Homeland,
the
City
of
Minneapolis
was
built
as
part
of
the
study
of
the
consultant
team
engaged
with
members
from
all
four
recognized
Minnesota
Dakota
communities
with
the
goal
to
document
stories
and
practices
not
evaluate
and
validate
them
has
significance
for
its
connection
to
water,
which
is
important
to
the
Dakota
community.
L
Water
helps
sustain
life,
facilitates
travel,
serves
as
a
boundary
and
is
used
in
ceremonies,
as
noted
by
the
consultant.
Omni
Omni
is
a
natural
feature
that
has
been
used,
modified
and
even
exploited
by
European
Americans.
Ultimately,
a
community
that
values
a
place
must
determine
the
property's
significance.
L
L
The
study
recommends
the
following
next
steps:
continued
coordination
and
consultation
with
Native
communities,
especially
the
Dakota
issuance
of
a
formal
determination
of
Eligibility
by
the
U.S
Army
Corps
of
Engineers,
completion
of
an
assessment
of
effects,
further
research
and
nomination
and
listing
of
alumni
Omni
in
the
nrhp
staff
have
reviewed
the
reports
and
concur
with
the
results,
and
we
can
transmit
any
comments
from
the
HBC
to
the
U.S
Army
Corps
of
Engineers
and
shippo.
In
a
letter,
the
reports
have
not
yet
been
submitted
to
shippo
but
will
be
soon.
F
Foreign,
do
I
need
to
grant
them
permission.
Yes,
I.
We
would
like
to
hear
your
presentation
regarding
this
item.
M
Hello,
my
relatives
I
greet
you
with
a
good
heart
and
handshake.
My
Dakota
name
is
many
Buffalo.
My
English
name
is
Shelly
Buck
I
am
the
President
of
friends
of
the
falls,
and
also
the
vice
president
of
the
Prairie
Island
Indian
Community
Tribal
Council.
My
address
is
748
Linden
Circle,
South
Maplewood
55119
first
I'd
like
to
say
thank
you
for
allowing
us
the
time
to
speak
today.
I
appreciate
it
is
common
to
think
about,
or
talk
about,
preservation
in
terms
of
buildings,
Bridges
and
other
structural
properties.
M
We
understand
your
mission
and
we
ask
you
and
invite
you
to
see
it
through
an
indigenous
lens
I
always
say
you
can't
talk
about
Minnesota
History
without
first
starting
with
Dakota
history.
Many
tribes
have
a
migration
story
to
where
they're
currently
located,
but
the
Dakota
called
the
land
that
is
now
Minnesota
the
birthplace.
M
Our
creation
stories
have
us
coming
from
into
human
form
from
the
waters
here
in
Minnesota,
two
locations
are
bedote,
which
is
near
Fort
Snelling
and
the
other
is
bade
Waka
or
Spirit
Lake,
which
is
now
known
as
Mille
Lacs
or
Lake
Mille
Lacs.
So
those
two
are
a
place
of
creation,
so
many
which
Tony
water
is
life
literally
for
us.
M
M
Things
are
slowly
changing,
however,
like
with
the
mini
ohationi,
which
is
cold
water
Springs,
just
because
a
site
has
been
Disturbed
or
destroyed,
doesn't
mean
that
spirit
that
life
force
doesn't
still
exist
there,
because
it
does
the
Integrity
of
this
site
as
a
historic,
Dakota,
Landmark
persists
to
this
day.
We
still
have
ceremonies
there
that
we
conduct
there's
still
Dakota
people
that
go
and
pray
there
and
give
thanks
there.
M
The
historic
significance
needs
to
be
broadened
to
pre-industrial
within
the
Saint
Anthony
Falls,
historical
district.
That's
a
mouthful.
The
history
of
sawmilling
and
flower.
Milling
is
already
well
known
and
taught
all
over
the
area,
but
the
Dakota
history
is
invisible.
We
as
Dakota
people,
are
invisible
in
our
own
Homeland.
M
N
It's
been
an
honor
to
work
with
with
Shelley
on
this
project
and
sorry
I
just
got
to
get
it
together.
Here
that
really
hit
me.
N
Let
me
get
into
the
wonky
stuff
and
that'll
calm
me
down
so
yeah
HPC
is
a
Consulting
party
on
this
process
with
the
core,
and
one
thing
that
wasn't
mentioned
earlier
is
that
Friends
of
the
falls
is
working
very
closely
with
the
city
on
the
convenience,
we're
a
cost-sharing
partner
and
we're
also
the
managing
partner
and
and
kind
of
navigating
that
process
on
behalf
of
both
the
city
and
the
park
board
and
working
closely
through
Shelley
with
the
tribes.
N
N
The
overall
map
there
on
the
left
shows
the
trails
and
settlements
that
have
been
documented
and
then
the
inset
on
the
right
is
the
site
that
we're
talking
about,
and
you
can
see
right
there
at
the
Falls
was
a
campsite,
a
village,
a
campsite.
You
know
that
Gathering
Place,
that
Shelley
spoke
of
there
was
a
Portage
there.
Wito
wanahi
Spirit
island
is
noted,
so
this
was
a
destination.
This
was
a
known
place.
N
Additionally
the
update
to
power
of
the
falls.
The
West
Bank
plan,
which
is
a
Heritage
Board
plan,
now
includes
mention
of
this
as
a
significant
Dakota
Place,
largely
thanks
to
Mona
Smith,
who
also
serves
on
the
board
of
friends
of
the
falls
she's
been
engaged
in
this
planning
process
for
many
years
and
has
brought
this
much
more
into
focus
in
these
plans
you
heard
about
in
the
TCP,
which
I'm
sure
you've
all
had
a
chance
to
peruse.
There
are
a
number
of
techie
Associated
locations
locations
which
have
been
defined
there
here
and
I.
N
N
Now
we
also
wanted
to
make
you
aware
of
some
of
the
challenges
that
we'll
be
facing
as
this
site
moves
forward
into
decision
making
around
historic
resources.
It
has
been
deemed
eligible,
both
as
an
industrial,
complex
and
as
a
TCP.
N
The
project
vision
is
really
associated
with
lifting
up
that
indigenous
history
that
Dakota
history,
which,
as
Shelley
said,
has
been
invisible
in
the
historic
district
until
now.
This
is
an
incredible
opportunity
to
work
to
to
cure
that
and
to
bring
this
history
forward.
This
living
culture
forward,
I'm
noting
here
a
couple
of
issues
that
are
going
to
come
back
to
you
at
some
point.
N
There's
two
structures
on
the
site
that
are
within
the
subject,
property
to
convey
one,
the
one
that
looks
like
a
baseball
diamond
is,
is
a
bathroom
facility
and
the
other
one.
That's
attached
to
the
block
wall
is
the
old
control
station,
which
is
no
longer
in
use.
The
core
has
two
new
structures
on
top
of
the
lock,
where
they
control
the
taintor
gate
and
other
aspects.
However,
the
control
station
does
have
utilities
running
through
it.
N
N
N
Here's
another
image
of
that
gravel
slope
and
you
can
see
encountering
you
know
it
goes
all
the
way
to
the
footings
of
the
Stone
Arch
Bridge,
so
I
want
to
bring
Shelley
back
up
to
close
out,
but
I
think
just
we
really
wanted
to
contextualize
some
of
the
issues
that
are
coming.
N
M
Just
to
iterate
this
site
is
significant
to
the
Dakota
people.
You
have
an
opportunity
to
support
us
in
ensuring
that
the
Dakota
history
is
told
and
experienced
here
again.
I
want
to
say
thank
you
to
each
and
every
one
of
you
for
taking
the
time
to
listen
to
us
about
our
project
and
the
possibilities
here
for
the
the
waterways
and
to
add
another
piece
of
History
to
this
site.
F
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
presentation,
both
staff
and
and
for
the
applicant
I
guess
I'll,
say
for
your
time
and
coming
in
tonight
and
giving
us
a
little
more
context
on
the.
C
F
Our
goal
tonight
is
to
provide
feedback
and
comment
to
shippo
as
a
Consulting
party.
To
this
they
appreciate
our
feedback
and
concerns
and
comments
so
Commissioners.
Let's
provide
some
comment
that
could
be
provided
to
shippo.
G
So
I
will
start
off
by
saying
thank
you
for
the
presentations,
but
also
I
was
really
excited
to
see.
A
TCP
study
come
across.
I
feel
like
I'm,
always
excited
to
see
that
and
really
trying
to
acknowledge
history
that
isn't
necessarily
just
building
or
structure
based.
G
O
Strothers,
thank
you.
I
have
still
a
context
question
and
it
arose
initially
out
of
the
report.
The
staff
report
and
and
I
I
found
all
this
very
interesting.
I
read
the
reports
that
were
attached
and
as
well
as
the
staff
report,
but
the
first
sentence
of
the
report
says
Friends
of
the
falls
and
the
City
of
Minneapolis
are
exploring
opportunities
for
redevelopment
of
the
site
of
the
upper
lock
at
St,
Anthony
Falls,
and
then
in
the
next
paragraph.
It
says:
oh,
no,
it's
in
the
same
paragraph.
O
At
the
end,
it
says
a
programmatic
agreement
among
the
U.S
Army
Corps
of
Engineers
and
the
Minnesota
state
historic
preservation
office
in
the
City
of
Minneapolis
has
been
drafted
and
is
currently
under
review.
Are
those
things
related
to
not
just
the
designation
but
the
ultimate
use
of
that
property?.
L
Your
sand
wolves
and
commissioner
strothers.
Thank
you
for
that
question
as
Jersey
was
alluding
to
this
is
a
very
complex
project.
So
there
are
multiple
property
owners
who
are
involved,
so
the
US
Army
Corps
is
responsible
for
the
Lock
and
Dam
I'm.
Tracy
also
mentioned
involvement
from
the
City
of
Minneapolis
and
the
park
board
just
with
this
location
along
the
river
and
so
the
they
are
exploring
a
possible
land
conveyance
from
the
U.S
Army
Corps
to
the
City
of
Minneapolis,
and
then
also
a
possible
transfer
to
the
Friends
of
the
falls
organization.
N
Yeah,
so
the
programmatic
agreement
is
not
about
use,
not
not
about
future
use,
it's
really
about
process.
So,
of
course
it
covers
the
required
NEPA
compliance
and
we've
achieved
phase
one
phase,
two
and
TCP,
which
Friends
of
the
falls
supported
as
the
cost
sharing
partner
and
so,
and
we
kind
of
teed
up
I
think
some
of
the
issues
that
are
facing
Us
in
phase
three,
because
we
think
we're
going
to
end
up
at
mitigation.
N
N
It's
likely
that
if
the
control
station
goes
away,
we
would
be
relocating
utilities,
for
instance,
so
that
would
be
covered
under
that
as
a
process
matter,
but
it
would
also
have
to
come
to
Historic
bodies.
You
know
for
consideration,
including
the
shippo,
achp
and
HPC,
so
we're
kind
of
trying
to
contextualize
that
question
for
you
in
terms
of
future
use
that
is
still
underway
still
being
planned.
N
However,
we
do
know
that,
based
on
all
of
the
input
thus
far
from
an
assembled
native
partnership
Council
as
well
as
what
we've
heard
so
far
from
tribal
leadership,
restoration
is
really
the
most
important
thing.
So
Shelley
talked
about
water
is
life.
We
are
all
relatives
that
the
site
would
be
returned
to
all
relatives
as
a
resource.
So,
as
you
may
know,
this
is
part
of
the
Mississippi
Flyway
this
site,
if
brought
back
to
life
through
restoration
and
if
it
became
an
indigenous
landscape.
N
Again,
you
know
Oak
Barons
next
to
running
water,
that
many
species
could
benefit,
and
so
we
are
working
toward
a
restoration
of
the
site
to
an
indigenous
landscape
as
as
really
both
the
cultural
and
environmental
restoration.
If
that
I
would
say,
that's
not
final.
There's
a
lot
Yet
to
Come
ahead
of
us,
but
I
would
say
that's
the
direction.
Thank
you.
K
Add
some
comments:
yeah
thank
you.
Vice
chair
sample
and
commissioner
I
wanted
to
provide
just
a
little
extra
walk
it
back
just
a
little
bit
further,
just
to
add
on
to
what
Aaron
and
chirsty
mentioned
the
reason.
This
is
a
little
different
than
what
normally
comes
before
you,
because
it
falls
under
section
106
of
the
National
Historic
preservation,
Act,
of
which
the
HPC
is
a
Consulting
party
of
which
the
staff
acts.
On
behalf
of
for
some
of
these
larger
projects,
we
bring
them
to
you
for
review
and
comment.
K
The
Army
Corps
owns
the
property
and
in
their
transfer
or
conveyance.
Excuse
me.
Let
me
use
the
right
word:
the
conveyance
to
the
city,
which
then
has
an
agreement
with
the
friends
of
the
falls
for
that
layers.
On
top
of
that,
that
act
in
and
of
itself
is
a
what's
called
an
undertaking
under
Section
106.,
and
so
that
is
what
is
kind
of
this
entire
project
of
defining
the
undertaking.
K
Looking
for
historic
properties
and
determining
effect,
it's
a
essentially
it's
a
four-step
process
dictated
under
the
National
Historic
preservation
act
and
we
are
at
part
of
it.
This
has
been
going
on
for
a
while
there's
a
larger
related
project.
Excuse
me
that
that
deals
with
the
disposition
study
that
the
Army
Corps
is
looking
at
for
this
property.
K
That's
kind
of
being
handled
a
little
bit
separate
than
this
particular
conveyance,
but
the
programmatic
agreement,
that's
being
referenced,
is
a
way
to
conclude
this
very
large
complicated
process,
and
it
is
a
tool
that's
available
under
the
National
Historic
preservation
act
to
conclude,
section
106
in
situations
of
complicated
projects
or
where
the
effects
of
such
a
project
are
unknown,
which
is
in
this
case,
and
so
the
programmatic
agreement
in
and
of
itself,
actually
details
a
process
for
how
to
carry
out
106
responsibilities
when
there
isn't
a
defined
outcome
at
this
point
in
time.
K
So
at
this
point,
there's
still
a
lot
of
as
chirsty
was
mentioning,
there's
a
lot
of
ideas
and
proposals,
and
and
all
of
it
can
be
accounted
for
under
the
the
programmatic
agreement.
Once
all
parties
are
in
consensus
about
it,
but
but
the
kind
of
the
purpose
to
bring
it
before
you
this
evening
was
to
introduce
you
to
the
project,
introduce
it
kind
of.
K
What's
going
on,
I
will
mention
in
terms
of
106
and
and
local
regulatory
Authority
are
still
in
dubious
territory,
and
so
in
terms
of
where,
where
and
or
if
this
comes
before,
you
in
certain
regulatory
capacity,
I
would
say
is-
is
still
unknown
at
this
point,
because
it
it
is
the
Army
Corps
that
runs
the
show
under
Section
106.,
so
I
hope
that
provides
maybe
another
another
step
walking
back
to
just
sort
of
provide
a
bit
of
a
context
for
for
the
reason
of
bringing
it
before
you
today,.
F
Andrea
is
a
follow-up
question
to
that.
Would
it
be
most
appropriate
for
us
to
be
commenting
on
the
process
as
outlined
in
in
this
memo,
or
are
we
commenting
on
our
thoughts
about
the
conveyance
of
the
property
to
the
City
of
Minneapolis,
or
are
we
kind
of
commenting
on
how
we
feel
prioritizing
the
historic
significance
of
the
two
potential
kind
of
periods
of
significance
as
outlined?
What
would
be
our
best
Focus
for
our
comments?
Vice.
K
Versa,
sample
I,
think
kind
of
anything
goes
I
mean
at
this
point.
The
project
is
still
in
the
identification
stage
of
it,
as
laid
out.
The
the
programmatic
agreement
is
kind
of
happening
concurrently.
It
has
not
been
signed,
yet
it's
been
happening
for
a
while.
The
advisory
council
is
participating,
but
I
would
say
you
know
whatever
you
want
to
comment
on
on.
K
What's
been
given
to
you,
what
you're
aware
of
what
they've
presented
I
think
is
all
is
all
appropriate
in
the
context
of
this,
and
you
know,
staff
has
been
participating
heavily
along
the
way
and
also
just
to
mention
the
City
of
Minneapolis
and
the
HPT
are
two
different
Consulting
parties
on
this
project
representing
similar
but
different
interests.
So
thank
you.
F
G
F
With
Commissioners
other
comments
that
you
would
like
to
commissioner
melbloom.
D
Thank
you,
Vice,
chair
sample,
I,
do
have
a
couple
questions
are
there,
and
maybe
these
are
directed
to
Aaron
might
be
the
easiest
answer
you
may
not
be
able
to.
Are
there
a
lot
of
such
overlapping
districts
such
as
this
in
the
United
States?
Or
is
this
unique
to
have
the
TCP
and
the
and
the
kind
of
this
industrial,
historic
district
be
overlapping.
L
L
There
are
four
other
sites
in
the
Twin
Cities
metropolitan
area
that
have
been
identified
as
tcps,
one
of
which
Ohio
or
Pilot
Knob
was
listed
in
the
National
register
in
2017
and
so
I
think
the
I
don't
know
that
I
can
answer
your
specific
question
about
the
overlap
of
an
industrial
district
and
tcps
across
the
country.
You
know
I
think
as
Shelley
was
saying,
water
is
life
and
and
that
value
of
the
water
has
been
seen
across.
L
L
I
also
know
that
I
think
several
have
noted
that
the
practice
of
identifying
tcps,
in
my
opinion,
has
not
been
as
robust
as
identifying
other
properties,
especially
buildings
and
structures
associated
with
the
historic
district,
historic
districts,
and
so
that,
maybe
something
we
continue
to
see
more
of
and
see
more
Partnerships
in
evaluating
those
studies.
L
I
know
that
the
the
bulletin
to
guide
how
to
identify
traditional
cultural
properties
has
been
the
undergoing
revisions,
I'm
not
quite
sure
when
the
National
Park
Service
will
release
a
final
version,
but
this
seems
to
be
something
that
is
getting
more
focus
and
intention
and
I.
Don't
that
we
could
ask
the
technical
team
if
you
want
further
information,
but
that
may
be
sufficient.
D
Actually
Vice
chair,
sample
and
Katz
looks
like
she
might
have
something
to
speak,
say
to
that.
If
she
could.
P
P
There
is
a
similar,
though
somewhat
different
situation
actually
with
wakantipi.
So
some
years
ago
we
were
part
of
the
early
development
of
what
at
that
point
in
time,
was
called
the
Bruce
vento
nature,
sanctuary
and
part
of
that
included,
beginning
with
literature,
reviews
and
then
further
evaluation
of
resources.
What
came
out
of
that
was
the
identification.
P
Excuse
me
not
the
identification,
the
the
re-emergence
of
our
understanding
of
what
at
the
time
was
called
Carver's
cave
and
is
the
Dakota
name
is
wakantipi
and
that
was
determined
eligible
for
the
national
register,
actually
under
very
similar
criteria
as
oh
I'm,
the
Omni
it's
under
Criterion,
a
and
also
B
for,
and
it
appeared
on
the
map
that
you
saw
it
has
not
yet
been
listed.
P
But
there
is
tremendous
interest
among
the
tribes
to
find
funding
to
enable
it
to
be
listed,
and
some
of
you
may
have
been
following:
what's
happened
with
the
whole
transition
of
the
wakan
TP
project
to
become
a
dakota-led
and
managed
property,
it's
a
remarkable
story
of
re-emergence.
P
P
P
There
were
also
other
sites
of
not
quite
as
so
much
historical
significance,
but
it's
worth
looking
at
the
wakantipi
story
and
if
you
just
Google
it
there's
some
really
wonderful
background
information
and
Maggie
Lorenz
is
also
is
the
director
of
the
work
and
TP
Pro
program
and
project
and
she's
actually
on
the
board
With
Friends
of
the
Fall,
so
she's
also
a
great
conduit
for
sharing
the
story
of
what
happened.
There
is
happening
there
at
a
very
current,
so
thank
you.
Okay,
thank.
D
You
I
have
a
couple
of
other
questions
so
and
again
maybe
Aaron
would
be
the
best
to
answer
this.
So
am
I
correct
that
if
these
are
both
approved
as
historic,
historic
districts,
I
guess
for
lack
of
a
better
term
I'm,
not
sure
exactly
so
that's
the
right
term,
but
would
that
mean
that
there
are
five
different
historic
entities
that
all
overlap?
If
I'm
understanding
this
correct,
there
would
be
the
TCP,
the
Lock
and
Dam
piece
and
then
aren't
there
three
separate
for
the
Saint
Anthony
Falls.
L
Mr
Samuel,
commissioner
Mobile
I'm,
going
to
break
your
question
down
into
two
parts
so
with
that
identification
of
historic
properties,
stage
of
the
section
106
process,
the
results
of
that
is
to
turn
to
determine.
Are
there
any
historic
properties,
historic
properties
in
a
section,
106
definition
are
those
that
are
either
listed
in
the
National
register
or
determined
eligible
for
listing
in
the
National
register.
L
So
the
outcome
of
submitting
these
reports
to
shippo
will
be.
Does
the
shippo
and
does
the
U.S
Army
Corps,
as
the
lead
Federal
agency,
concur
with
the
consultant's
recommendation
that
we
have
the
Upper,
St,
Anthony,
Lock
and
Dam?
Is
that
determined
eligible
for
listing
and
then
is
there
a
TCP?
Is
that
also
eligible
for
listing?
And
at
that
point
in
the
section
106
process,
it
is
not
a
requirement
for
compliance
to
be
able
to
take
it
forward
to
listing.
L
So
it
is
not
necessarily
that
there
will
be
an
outcome
that
something
could
get
designated
further.
I
think
there's
been
some
discussion
about
those
next
steps
and
there
may
be
an
interest
among
various
parties
that
awami
Omni
be
listed
in
the
National
register.
That's
definitely
an
outcome
that
could
happen.
We
just
don't
know
at
this
point
kind
of
where
that's
going
to
go.
So
if
you
want
to
think
kind
of
in
hypotheticals
about
this,
so
we
have
the
Saint
Anthony
Falls
historic
district,
which
is
listed
in
the
National
register.
It's
also
a
local
historic
district.
L
We
would
have
the
upper
Anthony,
Lock
and
Dam
could
be
a
determined
eligible
property.
Again
it
could
be
pursued
further
to
be
listed.
Maybe
not
there's
the
TCP
and
then
I
know,
there's
also
been
studies
of
a
greater
and
what
is
the
full
name,
the
greater
Lock
and
Dam
historic
district
that
includes
multiple
locks
and
dams
along
the
river
that
has
also
been
determined
eligible,
so
I
think
that
gets
to
the
five
there
could
also
be
more
so
it's
certainly
I
guess.
Maybe
to
answer
your
question
simply.
D
Thank
you.
It's
there's
a
lot
to
certainly
a
lot
to
think
about.
Does
the
does
the
structure
of
the
lock
and
dams
detract
from
the
TCP
or
or
do
or
are
they
seen
as
I
I
feel,
like
they're,
somewhat
represented
that
they
are
but
I
I'm
curious?
If
that's,
if
that's
an
accurate
way
to
look
at
this,
or
did
they
just
exist
side
by
side,
so
to
speak,
or
does
one
actually
really
negatively
influence
the
other.
L
D
L
B
L
So
I
think,
with
the
results
of
the
surveys,
is
that
they
both
do
retain
integrity
and
I.
Think
maybe
the
answer
that's
coming
to
my
mind
is
is
both
and
these
things
can
exist
and
in
the
professional
opinion
of
the
Consultants,
the
presence
of
one
has
not
detracted
significantly
to
the
presence
of
the
other
that
night
that
either
one
or
both
don't
retain
their
historical
significance.
Thank.
D
You
that's
for
me,
that's
really
helpful
and
one
other
question.
D
D
L
L
So
you
know
the
I
think
we've
had
conversations
in
the
past
with
other
properties,
just
kind
of
questioning
the
idea
of
a
period
of
significance
right
and
and
what
that
matter,
and
why
that
matters
and
how
you
determine
it
and
the
in
my
reading
of
the
report,
it's
really
focusing
on
how
did
this
structure
help
bring
to
fruition
this?
This
long
plan
of
increasing
access
for
industrial
Transportation
along
this,
and
so
you
know
under
Criterion
a
I
think
I
would
imagine
it's
looking
at.
L
You
know:
okay,
when
when
was
the
construction
completed
such
that
the
idea
idea
was
fully
realized
and
then
for
how
long
did
it
serve
its
full
purpose
and
create
that
big
connection
along
the
length
of
the
Mississippi,
River
and
so
I?
Think
the
the
P
that
1976
year
refers
to
the
peak
I
believe
it
was
like
the
peak
of
traffic
and
kind
of
activity
along
the
river,
and
so
it
seemed
like
you
know.
This
is
really.
These
are
the
years
that
make
sense
to
reflect
that
that
period
of
activity,
okay,.
J
I
I
this
process
that
seems
very
confusing,
so
I'm
gonna
be
honest
with
you
I'm
having
a
tough
time
providing
comment
because
I
don't
know
that
I'm
fully
following
what
you
guys
are
looking
for
from
us,
but
I
guess
I
would
say
generally
I'm
in
support
and
agreement
with
the
findings
of
these
reports.
For
the
significance,
I,
don't
know
much
about
a
traditional
cultural
property,
and
that's
on
me
for
not
researching
this
prior
to
my
duty
here
today,
but
so
I
guess.
J
The
only
thing
I
would
want
to
maybe
understand
a
little
bit
more
and
I.
Think
it's
probably
a
pretty
simple
answer
is:
does
a
TCP
typically
come
with
design
standards
then?
Or
how
is
that
treated
from
like
assuming
that
a
future
use
happens
within
this
TCP?
How
is
that
guided
under
and
is
it?
Would
it
be
under
our
purview.
L
Vice
chair
sample,
commissioner
Rand.
Thank
you
for
that
question.
I
think
Andrea
Brook
was
getting
into
that
a
little
bit
just
with
the
complexities
of
the
local
and
Regulatory
review.
So
the
you
know,
section
106
reviews
are
focused
on
National
register
eligibility
right
and
so,
as.
L
Preservation,
Commission
and
and
staff
with
the
Heritage
preservation
commission.
We
don't
have
regulatory
authority
over
National
registered
properties,
whether
eligible
or
or
listed
I
am
not
personally
familiar
with
the
practice
of
traditional
cultural
properties
and
the
potential
of
having
design
standards
and
what
that
would
look
like,
and
so
I
would
look
to
my
colleagues
and
or
the
technical
team
if
they
can
add
anything
in
there,
but
I
will
just
say
before
I
pass
it
over.
You
know
I
think
it
does
come
back
to
that.
D
L
That
and
also
I
think
how
the
section
106
process
plays
out
in
terms
of
if
there
are
going
to
be
adverse
effects
to
Historic
properties.
How
does
the
lead
Federal
agency
and
shippo
and
the
Consulting
parties
identify
what
is
appropriate
mitigation
and
whether
or
not
that
would
be
something
that
would
yeah.
J
I
think
I'm,
following
you
and
I,
think
I.
Think
that
led
me
to
the
to
the
answer
being
that
the
only
way
that
there
would
be
design
standards
is
if
we
designated
it
locally,
and
that
would
be
us
opting
into
that
and
that
at
a
national
register
level
it
doesn't
have
design
standards
and
nothing
does
if
it
even
were
to
get
to
that
point.
Okay,
I
think
I
follow
this,
so
I
think.
J
My
comment
for
you
is
that
I
am
in
agreement
and
of
support
of
the
the
findings
and
the
reports
and
look
forward
to
hear
more
on
the
status
I
think
these
reports
are
well
researched
and
well
written
and
certainly
a
dumb
real
estate
developer
doesn't
have
a
lot
to
add
so
I
will
I
will
leave
it
to
the
experts
to
to
further
the
process
from
here,
but
I
think
I
appreciate
the
work
so
far
and
very
supportive
of
the
process
so
far.
G
I,
don't
necessarily
have
another
comment
on
this,
but
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
this
conversation
sort
of
brings
up
is,
you
know,
is
there
a
way
to
locally
designate,
tcps
and
I?
Don't
think
that
that's
a
question
for
right
now,
but
maybe
something
that
we
can
have
a
conversation
about
at
a
future
Retreat
because
I
feel
like
this
is
something
that
we
have
talked
about
a
little
bit
and
you
know
understanding
that
National
register
recognition
doesn't
necessarily
translate
to
local
designation.
So
just
a
thought.
F
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Bjornberg
I'm
gonna
weigh
in
with
some
of
my
own
thoughts.
F
I
am
excited
to
see
that
the
study
of
this
area
included
a
history
of
the
I'm
going
to
butcher,
saying
it,
but
Alum
Naomi
I'm
glad
to
see
that
multiple
kind
of
periods
of
Civic
significance
in
multiple
cultural
perspectives
were
looked
at
when
considering
historic
significance
of
this
site.
I
think
it's
interesting
to
look
at
a
site
like
this
and
think
about
how
a
river
and
waterfall
along
a
river
is
important
to
multiple
cultures
for
different
reasons
and
different
cultures
have
a
very
different
way
of
treating
the
the
places
of
significance
to
them.
F
You
know
our
culture
has
a
history
of
taking
a
natural
resource
and
exploiting
it
for
for
industrialization
and
use
in
that
manner,
and
so
I'm
I'm
glad
to
see
that
both
of
these
have
been
brought
forward.
I
can't
think
of
another
two
periods
that
this
site
could
be
looked
at
from
potential
historic
significance
that
would
rise
to
the
level
of
these
two
periods
that
are
currently
being
studied.
F
I
would
I'm
encouraged
to
see
that
shippo
that
there's
next
steps
for
both
of
them.
That
they
are
going
to
continue
to
be
studied
and
that
Chippewa
will
be
considered
considering
both
of
them
and
that
both
of
them
are
on
a
path
to
maybe
be
moved
for.
National
designation,
I'm
excited
to
to
see
how
that
continues.
I
think
at
this
point
we're
kind
of
providing
a
little
bit
more
feedback
on
the
process
rather
than
on.
F
You
know
whether
or
not
they're
designation-
and
you
know
the
the
nuances
of
period
of
significance
and
those
kinds
of
things
so
I'm
I'm
excited
to
see
that
both
of
them
are
going
to
be
going
forward
and
that
there's
next
steps
on
both
of
those
studies
that
will
be
followed
up
on
I
am
interested
to
see.
F
You
know
we
do
have
within
the
City
of
Minneapolis,
even
overlapping
historic
districts
and
I
know
like
one
kind
of
takes
precedence
over
the
other
I'd,
be
interested
to
see
how
that
plays
out
long
term
for
these
two,
if
they
both
go
forward
which
which
district
kind
of
takes
precedence
over
the
other.
F
You
know
what
we
would
put
in
kind
of
our
HPC
recommendation,
but
personally
I
think
you
know
I
struggle
a
little
bit
with
the
industrial
nature
taking
over
and
that
being
the
president
personally
I
think
it
should
be
the
history
of
the
Dakota
that
should
be
important
in
this
place
and
that
I
would
like
to
see
preserved.
F
It
is
interesting
to
walk
around
this
area
and
to
see
how
much
of
the
natural
is
left
and
I
think
we
need
to
do
everything
we
can
to
protect
the
natural
character
of
this
place,
because
there's
so
little
left,
I
I
feel
like
that
is
very
important
and
so
I'm
I'm
happy
to
see
that
there
are
next
steps
on
both
of
these
studies
and
that
both
of
them
will
carry
forward
and
that
both
of
them
will
be
considered
when
it
comes
to
the
interventions
that
might
be
made
not
just
during
the
conveyance
but
potentially
afterwards
by
the
owners
of
the
site.
F
Does
anybody
else
have
any
other
comments
or
before
I
ask
if
that's
enough
comment
Aaron
for
you
to
provide
towards
sword
shippo
for
this,
for
this
round
of
our
comments.
A
K
So
that
is
happening
and
then
also
speaking
of
Retreats.
Our
next
Retreat
is
coming
up,
I
believe
on
October
5th
and
so
I
will
be
sending
out
communication
here
for
topics
within
the
next
week
or
two
other
than
that.
Forgive
me
a
third
topic,
as
I
had
mentioned,
the
state
historic
preservation
office
preserve
Minnesota
Statewide
conference
is
happening.
The
end
of
September
in
Mankato
and
I
encourage
you
all
to
attend
that
conference.
No
further
updates.
Thank
you.
A
Not
seeing
none,
let's
see
with
that,
and
we
have
completed
all
items
on
the
agenda
for
this
meeting.
I
will
ask
members
and
staff
one
more
time
if
there
are
any
matters
that
must
come
before
the
commission
there
being
no
other
business
to
come
before
this
meeting
and
without
objection.
I
will
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.
The
next
regular
meeting
of
the
Heritage
preservation
commission
is
September
12th
2023.