City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 13 Feb 2023

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2.13.2023 Governance Committee

A

Foreign, thank you all for coming today. I want to call this meeting of the governance.

A

Committee to order we have a lot of guests today, so I'm going to first do the role and.

A

Then ask everyone to go around and introduce themselves so that people at home and anyone.

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Watching later is aware of who all is here um so counselor tabor, as noted councilor lombardi.

B

Here and I'm counselor cook and I'm president, um so let's go around the room, I'm going to start.

A

Here to my left and everyone, please introduce yourself and tell us who you're representing.

C

Peter lachlan, representing or be here on behalf of the trees and greenery committee.

D

Tom watson, here, on behalf of the prescott park, master plan implementation committee. My name is.

E

Carl diemer, I'm the chairman of the ports of city, recreation, bulletin, department and glad to be here.

F

Barbara mcmillan, the portsmouth conservation commission.

B

Barbara, can you move a microphone.

G

um Michael griffin, trees and greenery commissioned, and also on the cemetery commission.

A

um So we have a lot of guests today because we're continuing a discussion. The first item under our.

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Agenda under old business, uh the parks discussion- and we started this discussion just for history.

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About a year ago, and that discussion centered on discussing all of our committees and what we.

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Should be looking at for committees for the city, where do we have gaps, but also what committees do.

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We have that are no longer in operation, so we went through a comprehensive look in this committee at.

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All of those eliminating committees that weren't operating and then we had questions around what.

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Do we need- and I raised the issue of a parks discussion, because the city has several different.

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um Departments that are responsible for parks and several different committees that have different.

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Responsibilities with regard to parks, and so the question I had was who do we have at the citizen.

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Level, that's taking a comprehensive look at strategic planning, around parks and open spaces, so.

A

um So you will recognize everyone here that you all have individual roles in.

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That and your committees have individual roles in that, but this committee was trying to think.

A

Okay, so who who does the bigger strategic plan on where do we have new park spaces.

A

um In the city, where do we have passive recreation opportunities for individuals in the city, where.

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Do we not have recreation and part of that's conservation mission? Is, you know, focused on.

A

Conservation, but where do we identify spaces that maybe we don't want to develop in the future, for.

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Parks or for open sources and and to think more broadly around that in the same way that the.

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Prescott park master plan thinks about strategic planning for one park in the city, so um so we've.

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Invited you all here to share your thoughts. um We've already spoken with all the departments in.

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The city that we thought had a stake in parks and work directly in our parks and ask them what their.

A

Viewpoints were on, you know, who really should have that overarching master planning view around.

A

Parks and so, but we really wanted to hear from you, because you all sit and chair the committees that.

A

Are responsible for this, so um I would be happy if whoever wants to chime in first on your thoughts.

A

On uh bigger parks, discussion at the city level and and how what what our next step should be.

G

A

And this can be a very informal discussion, so we're just gathering ideas still trying.

A

To make a decision- yes, how's- that um this is uh first I've heard about the products committee.

E

um It's when you sent me the email name by which I appreciate very much um in in the past years,.

E

Just to give everybody a little bit of history, the recreation department has been kind of tasked with.

E

The product utilization, how they're going to be taken care of and what type of activities would go.

E

On in the different parks, as well as the fields and also the buildings, um the thing about.

E

The parks we've typically had uh somebody from the dpw sit on the recreation board.

E

um To help communicate, uh repairs or maintenance, or you know some ideas of.

E

What they could do to keep them in a very good working order? In the past, we've had.

E

uh Everett curran and um I'm mr crodo, and uh they would come to the boards periodically. It's.

E

Once a month, and they would be able to report out to us the overall condition of the parks.

E

In the fields of course, and also the buildings, because they have a close relationship with.

E

Taking care of those things and then we would go ahead and as a group as a recreation board,.

E

We would make decisions of what needed most attention first and, and that would.

E

Typically, be something that would open up to any public input or somebody wanted something taken.

E

Care of at a certain field- I've had you know everything from basketball courts to you know.

E

Pocket parks things like that down south street, all those things that the public could come and.

E

You know give their recommendations or suggestions of how to repair it, so we typically would go.

E

Through and communicate that to the dpw and make sure everybody's in agreement with that, you know.

E

So it's to the benefit of the citizens of portsmouth on those, because we also had to.

E

Do we do some programming on some of the products uh for recreation purposes, whether it be adult or.

E

Or children you know so that's where we've been at for the past years. You know running. Thank you.

A

Yes, if I can then pick up and add to a couple of the threads here, um just so everyone's aware, the.

H

Recreation board: you can find it established under uh chapter one section: 1.304 recreation board.

H

um And it's a very short ordinance and it speaks of the functions of the recreation.

H

Board shall perform the following: assist the recreation director in planning a city-wide.

H

Recreation program and advise the city manager in regard to recreational policy, so it's that short.

H

So that's it's uh its mission, so to speak. um I also think it might be uh helpful for us all.

H

To keep in mind that we will very shortly have a completed recreational needs, study.

H

um I know the the draft document is being finalized. uh Having reviewed it this weekend.

H

um And so I think both the rec board and the um and the city council will be seeing the results.

H

Of that recreational needs study soon, and I know the recreation board and the rec department were.

H

Very instrumental in getting that launched and moving it does cover passive recreation uses.

H

Which I know is is that as well as the programming element, so I think you will, as a collectively all.

H

Find that the reports of that at least helpful in this ongoing conversation and potential next steps.

H

And I I think it may just be like a couple weeks out literally it's very close, um so I don't know.

H

If it's on one of your agendas yet, but I think there's even a work, maybe it's a work session.

H

With the city council, but I know it's coming and it's very close um so right and we're very anxious.

E

To see it too, we had performed one in 2010 which had given us all the inventory of our assets.

E

As far as fields, locations buildings, uh all that stuff and also parks- uh it's that was very very.

E

Helpful and uh so now we've done an update here in 2023 so that hopefully, that report will come.

E

Out just prior to the march 6th meeting and we're looking for a work session with the city council,.

E

For discussion about some recreational activities and some ideas that we've been working on for the.

E

Past year or two, uh which includes you, know the successfully we put down one field already.

E

um Which is the unofficial turf field uh out at the campus and uh and there's some continued.

E

Efforts to work on some additional recreational things that we want to do so yeah. We are looking.

E

For that and hopefully march 6th, we can get that all put together. Wonderful and it'll be good for.

E

Everybody to know that because it will give you a kind of an inventory of what's out there right now,.

E

Because it's sad, you know we don't drive by every park every day right. So you know we'd be surprised.

E

Where the part some of these products are, you know, so it's good. Thank you. Councilor lombardi, um yeah,.

B

I would one of the reasons we wanted to pull this together. Is um that, um and we know, recreation you.

B

Have an incredibly busy strong committee, one of our concerns was for the on the health of.

B

Some of these places that are um not necessarily recreation oriented the conservation committee, the.

B

Trees, I think the the health, the health of some of these spots, that have either actual paths or.

B

Or animal paths going through them that people use for passive recreation, you know need to be.

B

Looked at and maintained and make sure that those those pieces are are all healthy and.

B

So that's one of the reasons why we were trying to get a larger group together to discuss that.

A

Thank you counselor last question. Yes, did your needs survey cover passive recreation, like trails.

D

And walking trails and things of that nature it was. uh There was targeted on there to look at.

E

um The parks uh not so much new trails, but anything existing that would be in place.

E

Right now, but nothing you know going forward, no planning because we don't want to plan or we.

E

Were you know not want to get ahead of ourselves with planning with until we had all the assessment.

E

Back on everything, yeah and I I know you had a survey that went out, I have to admit I didn't.

D

Complete it so, but I'm just wondering when you were polling the citizens for what they wanted.

D

To see more of or or better or whether it included things that were outside the organized park system,.

D

You know everything from frisbee golf to uh ice hockey. You know, went to broad range.

E

And if somebody had an idea, you know put it down, uh trails, are you know pretty important.

E

um But I've looked at trails out in the bog. I've also looked at trails, you know anywhere. We could.

E

Around the city, uh would it be an opportunity um and there is, there is some opportunities there.

E

You put some nice safe trails in play and accessible. You know soon. After a while a mile to.

E

Go walk two miles, you know so uh so we we, you know we we have looked at that and then the rail trail.

E

As well conjunction with that, so there are some things. You know that we could certainly do and at.

E

A a reasonable cost too, I might add yeah you could do those those things we could do. A volunteers too.

E

You know so, I know we've done one of the urban forest that we did uh a while back.

E

Although that's not our property, but we did a trail out there uh that the.

E

Scouts did you know it was a. It was all volunteer at work so but.

I

So david, did you have a question? Well, I was just gonna. Ask our guests, um you know this last year.

G

We added a new park, we added mceachern park over on the north mill pond um and when you go through.

G

All the master plans, the last two all the citizen input says we want to keep finding green space.

G

We want to add to the city's inventory of green space um and I think, there's opportunities on the.

G

North side of the mill pond is that you know property changes, hands and gets developed, but.

G

You know from your point of view, who's the advocate in the city amongst our committees, for.

G

You know sort of looking around saying, where's more green space. We can add where's the next.

G

Mceachern park- um and that was one of the questions we were wrestling with.

G

Maybe barbara, maybe that's conservation commission, um but I think cities that are successful.

G

Making green space part of their master planning, there's some person or entity. That's always saying.

G

um Where can we grab a hold of some more green space, whether it's a citizen who wants to donate.

G

It whether it's a city purchase, so I put that question up yeah and I mean I can speak to that.

F

I can give a little history to microphone if you move closer to the microphone just.

I

Is that good, yeah yeah we used to sit here now we don't sit here anymore.

F

um So, to give a little history on that, we as a conservation commission, is part of our purview.

F

It is to to work on that so and that's through state statute. Really I mean it's one of the it's.

F

Not one of the required responsibilities we have, but it's one of the recommended ones and it's one.

F

That a lot of other conservation commissions do focus on and we we are focusing on that. So um I.

F

Mean it's like dover has an open lands committee and you know then hampton and exeter. They all work.

F

On that and have conservation, easements so, um and the history really is that originally.

F

um Like the great bog was really done through the environmental planner and the conservation.

F

Commission and other people in portsmouth and other organizations, so that is a piece.

F

Of property that has been it's got a conservation easement on it with a lot of partners and there's.

F

Other ones in the city, in addition to that, the some around sagamore creek and the kayak landing.

F

That you see around sagamore creek is another one. There's a little island in sagamore creek.

F

That we've purchased so the hidden gem yeah so and these are usually easements and so we've been the.

F

History really is 10 years ago or actually 2010. We had a public undeveloped lands assessment done so.

F

It was a natural resource inventory of what was going on in the whole city of portsmouth and all.

F

Of the lands that really are city owned but not developed, there was also some inclusion of some.

F

Things like cemeteries and things like that, but it was some hidden gems out there that people.

F

Don't know about little ones, big ones, really great assessment. That's extremely comprehensive.

F

And we have it online includes naps, it includes recommendations, it's looking at all those things.

F

Like invasive seed species, and is there a homeless population? Is there a lot of trash there? Is there.

F

Dumping are there trails? Are there opportunities? Are there wildlife corridors on there? Are there.

F

Opportunities to tie in with the rail trail um and also opportunities to tie in with neighborhood.

F

Groups and people that might use that area for walking or other trails so and then that.

F

Was done by western environmental and then they had management, suggestions and recommendations.

F

Huge inventory with the maps and those recommendations and a bunch of data and.

F

Then in 2020 we did an open space plan that kind of built off of that and we hired another.

F

Consultant resilience, planning and design, and they did that open space plan. Taking all that.

F

Information that we had existing and coming up with new recommendations on what maybe to.

F

To secure or purchase as an easement or as a piece of property to make even better connectivity and.

F

Tie-Ins and- and that was a really strong public process that was really based on you know, I think.

F

Presenting to the concert to the um to the city, council and being at different opportunities, all.

F

Throughout the city, to have the public give their input on that and they included schools, cemeteries.

F

All the parks, so they had everybody as part of that process. Looking a lot at trails and other.

F

Recommendations on that and then lately what we've done is we were. We did submit a letter.

F

To the city council and then I presented a couple times to the planning board and the.

F

City council, to talk about securing some funds through the cip to have some set aside for us.

F

Because we have partnered with the city a lot on this planning process and they've helped us create.

F

Maps to actually figure out what's available and what's out there and um and so to have the funding.

F

Ready helps us the I don't know if people know, but current use funding is the funding that comes out.

F

Of the larger parcels that we're in current use and usually the conservation commissions in new.

F

Hampshire get that funding for this particular purpose, and then the city council would grant.

F

Us the authority or has the authority to to grant the funds to be used, but we were prioritizing lots.

F

Of different properties, using these documents and and came up with maps- and I don't know if.

F

You had seen one of those maps. We have a whole bunch of maps looking at each piece of property.

F

So it's really something that we take seriously. We've put a lot of ducks and road to make it work.

F

um And we're sort of on the cusp of you know getting some more properties either as easements.

F

Or purchases for the city so and with everybody's blessing, of course, and an input and and two with a.

F

New master plan coming out, it seems like this is a really good time for us to be thinking.

F

About this and taking it seriously, so I don't know if that helps a little bit. um Thank you.

A

It actually does help quite a bit um and that's exactly. I think why this discussion came up here.

A

Around we have a master planning process, that's coming, and the question is who's thinking about.

A

This comprehensive view of parks and open spaces and and like the long-term plan for the city and.

A

Making sure that gets incorporated fully into the next master planning process so that we're.

A

Not waiting another 15 years before a neighborhood that doesn't have a park has a has a new park or.

A

Before we connect uh spaces where you can have hiking trails or connect to the rail trail, you.

A

Know who, who is doing this and making sure that someone is thinking, I think, very broadly, about.

A

That bigger piece of planning, so that can feed in to the process, yeah yeah and it's interesting.

F

To hear what others are doing too, because we had, we had done a volunteer effort to where we were.

F

Putting together sort of a management plan for volunteers to come in and actually go out and.

F

Look at the properties survey the properties we were doing that on our own, because a lot of.

F

Them have some of them have easements that have to be surveyed and we're learning a ton about these.

F

Properties by each of us, taking different groups of properties and going out and walking them and.

F

Checking them out so we were coming up with this whole volunteer program to get people involved.

F

And and sort of a citizen science kind of project where they would go out and we provide guidance.

F

On how to do that to assess the properties so there's yeah there's a ton of opportunity.

A

That's very helpful. um I will say I also wanted to to let everyone here know that the committee.

A

Hasn't prejudged, what our, what any recommendation would be coming out of the committee? That's why.

A

We got all of you together. The recommendation might be that it's helpful just to get all of you.

A

Together a few times to have these discussions, but um but you know it's a range of things: it.

A

Could be anything but that's why we're asking you guys to be here and kind of share your thoughts.

A

And share what you do so that the committee can make a more informed recommendation yourself. So.

A

um Just go ahead, if I can, maybe if I can give a little history on the prescott park process.

D

um So traditionally, until 2017 uh prescott park, even though it was a city park city-owned, it was.

D

Actually governed by the trustees of trust funds, which made the trustees in portsmouth unique among.

D

New hampshire trustees, I think we're the only ones who actually had something to do with other than.

D

Managing money uh and uh that process had the trustees not only managing the prescott systems.

D

Trust fund and the various other city trust funds, but also making policies on prescott.

D

Park, interacting with the stakeholders, such as the arts festival and the art association and the and.

D

The gun to low company and uh and then in 2016, the city undertook a full master plan evaluation.

D

And process for the park- and there is a fairly comprehensive plan that was adopted in uh just in.

D

uh Propounded by the commission, the committee in december and then adopted by the city in january.

D

Of 2017 and that master of planning process was not just a park redesign, it was a park.

D

Governance master plan and the result of that was that the governance was transferred from.

D

The city from the trustees of trust funds to the city manager's office and sat there ever since.

D

There was a second step in that process almost immediately after the master plan.

D

Was approved by the city council, a blue, ribbon uh committee or task force was.

D

Set up to adopt policies for prescott park and there is a a separate multi-page document that.

D

Deals with every issue you can think about in the operation of the park.

D

Covering everything from the type of licensed agreements we do with the stakeholders to.

D

Setting the tone on the type of activities that would occur in the park so, for instance, there.

D

Is no organized sport activity or recreational activity? It's meant to be other than in those.

D

Those stakeholder arrangements, it's meant to be a passive recreation sort of urban park.

D

And- uh and that was uh uh finished by december 2017., I brought along copies.

D

I didn't know how many people would be at this, but I only have a couple.

D

Of each one, but I want to sort of highlight a couple things that might be of interest.

D

This is the this. Is the policy committee report. You can see it's it's not insubstantial.

D

um And then I just took a summary of the governance section of the master planning.

D

uh Report and and his when I was looking at this over the weekend. Anticipation of this I thought.

D

This would be of interest to you so and the master planning process that's at exhibit b documents.

D

um There is a recommendation at the end that uh that the blue ribbon committee recommends.

D

The city manager and the city council evaluate the need for a committee with a city-wide perspective.

D

On policies related to parks and recreation- I don't know if you've seen this before today.

D

But the discussions pertaining to city policies in prescott park are not unlike considerations needed.

D

In other parks and recreational assets of the city as new and improved parks and recreational assets,.

D

Come online prescott park to be managed by the city manager of sagamore creek recreational area.

D

Rockingham branch, rail trail and the north mill pond multi-use path, etc now may be time to rethink.

D

The structures and policies related to parks and recreation, so somebody was thinking about this.

D

A few years ago, and what year was that so that that was uh 17 january 2017? It was adopted so.

D

um And that in that master cleaning process, the city was assisted by weston sampson and it was.

D

Fairly comprehensive, but we didn't- uh and I sat on that committee as well- we didn't go further into.

D

It because we thought that was beyond the scope of the master plan, but uh there was a sense based.

D

On uh comments and discussion that comments from the public and discussion that occurred uh back.

D

In 2016 that maybe there should be some greater policy committee and then in the planning in the.

D

Policy committee, the same type of thing- and this is on page 21 of that policy. It's very.

D

Similar language that adopted on the master plan, so the the uh the thought was that at that time.

D

um This was probably too big a subject to to take up as filing the prescott park.

D

Planning and policy making, um but it it may be appropriate to or if I think, the committee.

D

Thought it was appropriate to have a sort of a master plan and an oversight committee.

D

What that committee looked like, we never got to that level, but I just thinking it through the the.

D

It seems like you, have several different functions that are being discussed as part of this process.

D

Some is sort of the activity function which the recreational board is doing very well with the.

D

uh And the activities they're doing and it sounds like the the getting an overview of what the city.

D

Has for assets in this area is currently under the auspices of the conservation commission.

D

um And- and you know, prescott park has had the benefit of extensive study in the last five years.

D

I know I haven't seen the report that will come out obviously from the recreation commission or I.

D

Have haven't seen what the conservation commission has done, but uh uh it sounds like they may be. The.

D

You may be covering those functions, and so one issue you I think you have is whether.

D

There really is a one-size-fits-all committee that can, you know, be both an advocate and uh sort of a.

D

um It's a what I want to call it: a an acquisition, oriented uh group uh and and.

D

Then devise policies at the same time, but I, I think just a sense of the planning that.

D

What's done for prescott park, the thought was that it could be a committee whose job it really is is.

D

Probably less oversight of activities such as the recreation, but something that would.

D

Look at and and create a comprehensive approach to overseeing policy wise all the parks in the city.

D

And I will add that the committee that I'm here sort of is a representative is designed to.

D

Sunset as soon as the park, his master plan is built out, which.

D

I suspect will be a few more years from today, but uh and and so far as.

D

My understanding and my observation of the process, while it has occurred.

D

Under the offices of the city manager is that the governor's model is working well.

D

I think I think, having that policy statement that was created in in december of two thousand.

D

It was finished in december 2017 as, given the city manager enough direction to be able to.

D

To implement those policies without having to reinvent the wheel every time it's been time.

D

For a renewal of one of the license agreements, or somebody asked to do something in the park.

A

Thank you appreciate that.

A

Does anyone else want to share? Does your master plan take into consideration the effects of.

J

Climate change and what impacts, as a matter of fact, it does.

D

Without getting too deep in the weeds, the master plan, the original master plan.

D

Envisioned that there would be some some need for.

D

Adjustment to environmental changes, climate changes.

D

Principally in things such as the height of the sea wall and then after the plant was adopted,.

D

In the city, with its consultants, started doing the engineering and environmental studies and.

D

Realized that the environmental issue was much greater than anticipated in the 2016, so in 2020.

D

We this committee, that I'm on working again with the consultants, came back with a recommendation to.

D

Adjust the master plan specifically to deal with the environmental changes.

D

Includes moving buildings, raising the level of certain areas of the park.

D

Putting in new subsurface drainage that type of thing, okay, thank you.

A

What would you like to share with us? Well just um the trees and greenery committee, um I guess.

C

There's about a long paragraph that says, but we do but basically advocate. We advocate for treason.

C

Greenery on in public spaces uh in portsmouth- and um there are nine or so of us and and.

C

um We do the work um of the starter by evelyn sorel, so I noticed that display back there when.

C

She appointed the committee 20 or so years ago, and there are three city employees on.

C

The committee and six non-city employees, and- and we basically do what evelyn, what clotile strauss.

C

Did by herself for 20 years um on a volunteer basis and in a one part of the bureaucracy, was.

C

If not particularly friendly, probably hostile to her efforts to add greenery to the city and.

C

um um We review our tree removals and some and quite a bit of the planting in the city. So it's a.

C

Very narrow focus much narrower, I think, than most everybody else here and michael's on the board.

A

Narrow, but very, very important, so that we still have trees.

A

And creamery throughout the city so and that's why we invited you here to be part of this.

A

Discussion, because what trees in public greeny does impacts all of our open spaces and even.

A

Places that aren't necessarily open spaces on the 400 trees, the um and that's the the.

C

We are the this, this 400 committee and the city and public works and the entire city.

C

um And conservation involved in attempting to plant a planning to plant or attempting. But I'm.

C

Going to be planting 400 trees for the 400th, the city is going to do its 100 trees, which it does.

C

About 100 trees a year has been doing that for the last several years. For years it was.

C

Much lower figure, but uh we've had been blessed with incredible arborists in recent years and.

C

So the city will plant an extra hundred with the assistance of rotary funds and then they're going.

C

To be 200 trees available for the public, if you go onto the city's website, you can see the directions.

C

On how to get in line for that, if you're interested in obtaining a tree to plant in your.

C

Own property, buy, you would do it, the city wouldn't do it, but a lot of instructions on how to do that.

A

Thank you. I appreciate it just does anyone have any questions forward since you're here.

A

Do you want to share anything about cemeteries, I'm honored to be on the cemetery committee.

J

We have a very vibrant group of people, a dynamic individual in particular. I I think.

J

She's, co-chair and she's been able to locate and identify 39 cemeteries in the city of portsmouth.

J

They're all categorized identified located as a matter of fact. She just found another one.

J

Yesterday, on on banfield road, the croto family who live on that property, that about st pat's.

J

Academy that little cemetery, which is a private cemetery, is on the property of the new academy.

J

So she she she's out there all looking everywhere. I think there are nine.

J

Cemeteries that property and belong to the city of portsmouth for maintenance purposes.

J

And we've identified and focused on right now at this point through the committee's.

J

Effort and volunteers in the community to clean and wash all the monuments and grave.

J

Markets we've done the points of grave down on pleasant street mechanic. Mechanic street.

J

A large portion of the north cemetery we're going to continue working in there with shoreline.

J

Protection which I I think that funding is now in place. You know shoreline protection on the.

J

Back side of that property we've identified and it it showed up on that master plan of global.

J

Impact that that whole back banking that faces the north mill pond could, over time completely.

J

Erode and be subjected to soil erosion. So yeah, that's a it's! A wonderful committee.

J

And the citizens have responded very well and there's a lot of people working on that committee.

J

One of the efforts that's taking place is to identify all the graves.

J

Location and those people who are interred in those graves, and I think when that process is.

J

Done it'll be available at the library yeah and I think through portal on the website, so.

J

That when people come knocking on my mother's door, who could have sentences.

J

Log on to computer and you can find who you're looking for and where they're located.

J

So yeah that that committee's been very energetic, energetic and we're going to work with one of the.

J

Naval crews of a submarine currently at the portsmouth naval shipyard for overhaul and.

J

Maintenance, the cheyenne, I believe it's the cheyenne, it's a nuclear attack, sub their crew.

J

Is part of their civic responsibility so are going to work directly with us to clean the.

J

Headstones in the cotton cemetery which is off south street, so that's newsworthy. They.

J

Have you know 30 40 sailors up there scrubbing and cleaning stones, so that's planned for this summer.

J

Enjoy that update, it's a good committee, and I just and I.

H

There has been some conversation in the cemetery committee about.

H

The fact that people do use um the cemetery areas to walk their dogs to basically have that.

H

Green space, it's definitely serving a green space component in the city. Someone who frequently eggs.

H

Out in cemeteries because of the green space and the quiet, and it does serve also some connectivity.

H

Depending on which cemetery we're talking about, so it does in some ways fit in with some of the other.

H

Conversation here because it becomes a link and a resource for those passive recreation just sitting.

H

Outside in the quiet, if I were only to estimate during the peak of the shutdown of the pandemic,.

J

That, on a daily basis, 2 000 people, families and children would be in the south cemetery.

J

Just as a means of walking and exercise and to get down out to little harbor road.

J

So it was a happy to host them. Thank you for saying that, because that's my route to little.

A

Harbor road, when I go out walking so um so yes, I think that you know. Sometimes we forget that our.

A

Cemeteries are also open spaces within the city, and people do use them for recreation purposes.

A

And just for actually also passive recreation sitting and having a nice quiet space to sit so.

A

um So I've undertaken in that south cemetery, which is comprised by five separate cemeteries.

J

All joining each other, so the term south cemetery includes proprietors harmony, grove.

J

Elmwood cemetery, cotton, cemetery and sagamore cemetery and I've planted over 50 trees in the.

J

Last eight years and I've continued to plan to do so put more in there. Wonderful, well and.

A

And of any master planning process- and we should be thinking about that because you know at what.

A

Point do we need more symmetry cemetery resources in the city? That's always another question. It's.

A

It's more like: when do we need new parks? When do we need new cemeteries? You know it's not.

A

As if we're not all eventually going there, so so we have to think long term, I think in.

A

The planning process around that as well, so thank you for highlighting that, for us too,.

B

um Can I make a request that I'm on map geo and I just tried to enter cemeteries.

B

In portsmouth- and you can't filter that way, so it would be a good thing to add. Do it? Thank you.

A

Are there any questions, yes, council, lombardi or council faber just talking to the councilman.

K

um A larger question in a minute, but do we have any uh key to all of the historic grave sites.

L

um Is there any way somebody can walk through and see levi woodbury susan? I guess and my.

J

Cousin, dick adams, who's, probably one of our greatest historical resources in portsmouth.

J

And a member of the athenium, he does walk-throughs at the south cemetery twice a year to highlight.

J

All the historical significance and people that are there, I know sue polidoro. Does the north.

J

Cemetery on a frequent basis, but to your point, um we're hoping to erect the sign similar to the.

J

One at the north cemetery at the entrance of the south cemetery- identifying you know, frank jones,.

J

And woodbury and yeah and all the notable people that are in there and then down on maplewood.

G

We've got signers of the constitution and uh yeah langdon's there and whipple.

G

So my larger question was: uh this has been great because we've seen there's.

G

Advocacy for adding green space through the conservation commission there's a foreshadowing.

G

From the the 2017 work on prescott park of some policy body for parks, um I'll just put this out.

G

As a straw man, what if there were an expansion of the recreation committee to parks and recreation.

G

And that body would look at not just the inventory but the programming for all the parks.

G

Prescott park is, is such a unique case. I don't know that it can fall under.

G

A committee for the whole city, but uh I'm just putting that out as an idea.

G

Because in looking at other towns and cities, that's very common and.

G

We didn't know if there were great benefits from it or no benefits at all. You know, maybe what we're doing right now.

G

Is fine but I, in terms of program.

G

You know: we've got areas like jones avenue where there's a lot of land and.

G

Some trails, but you know what could could that be? We've got neighborhood parks in.

G

Maple haven and panway and mccackeron park- um and I was at national night out.

G

And for national night out, all those parks were filled with people doing things, kids having.

G

um Tug of war and games of various types- and it just occurred to me that.

G

There's an opportunity for more program for all the parkland that we have, but how would we do it.

G

And then there's there's hidden gems, like the water.

G

Access on sagamore avenue, the little dock behind seacoast mental health.

G

People don't know about that, but it's got a rope swing. It's got it's just great. It's.

J

A lot of use you'd be surprised, yeah, yeah, you're, probably right, so I would just put that out. There.

G

Pro or con just I would agree yeah, that's a good, you know they they do. They do go hand in hand.

E

To the parks and recreation, this is something I thought about even two years ago and stuff.

E

You know bring bring all that in and expand what we have uh for assets and recreation.

E

And look at all the small areas that we have, whether it be the boat ramp on the sagamore.

E

We haven't even got into the saginawa creek area. You know, uh you know used to be called the old.

E

Jones avenue property, but you know I've walked all through that. There's all sorts of nice trails.

E

You can have up there, you could have mountain biking, you could have mountain biking, you know.

L

Frisbee's, whatever golf frisbee, uh you know all those things you could have up there and.

E

It's just unused it's untapped right now and uh we have the banfield road access uh to.

E

The rail trail you know about that purchased that property. The house was at the end of.

E

Constitution and uh that's a great spot on the spot, for you know expanding for parking, maybe.

E

To get in there, so people could pull in and just start walking almost all those areas that we have.

E

Route 33, you know the way down area yeah that eventually it's a great skate park, great bog.

E

So there's a lot of things. We could look into to expand our you know, availability.

E

And spectrum of what we have for all sorts of passive recreation, regular recreation.

G

And active yeah.

F

So what would you see as the conservation commission role of that? Because it has sort of.

F

Been with the conservation commission other than the more active recreation has been their focus on.

F

The more passive recreation and but also assessing the balance between the natural resources and the.

F

Passive recreation, because there are certain things, especially with so many invasive species,.

F

That we need to be really careful of and including permitting and things like, that, water quality.

F

Drinking water quality, storm water, all those things, some of these properties really have.

F

A lot of value that way, and so there's there's sort of a balance of how you would do that that.

F

How would that happen? Kind of? I might suggest that you know once you know, an idea is created.

E

A site is suggested that it go through. You know due diligence with conservation committee.

E

Seeing if that is viable, if it's something we could do.

E

um You know take into considerations of all the things you just mentioned and uh and then.

E

What what type of popularity would have, what type of utilization would we get out of it.

E

um So it'd be, you know some way that the recreation board would communicate.

E

With conservation, you know when there's an idea up there or vice versa. You know conservation.

E

Might say: hey, you know, here's a good spot. You know this is really good and then suggest it to.

E

The recreation and say how could we go ahead and maximize this opportunity in front of us.

E

um The same thing with uh you know: we we do have liaison, we have a school board liaison. We have.

E

A city council liaison on the board, you know so that's good to have so we have those good input.

E

For that and uh and then we got deep, you know dpw access right, real right away, um so I think that's.

E

Something that we can, you know collectively agree on before somebody. You know you know, makes a final.

E

Decision right- and I guess too much ownership too, because the conservation commission has done so.

F

Much on the inventory and the recommendations, you know where they've looked at a property and said.

F

Okay, this one's really good for a wildlife corridor. We could put some trails in here.

F

So there's a lot of specifics that you know we would want you to whoever starts to look at it.

F

But also to avoid getting people the constipation commission on the defensive a little bit. You know.

F

To kind of be part of it, I'd say it's something gets identified. You do your due diligence and.

E

Say is this, you know yeah. Is this something that's viable yeah you look and yeah put it to.

E

Conservation, you know because of what's changed over and things change you know yeah. We want to.

E

Keep a consistency going and have you know, look at it and say yeah. This is something we can do.

K

And with your recommendation, we proceed, you know just like if it was a fire situation. You know we.

E

Don't want to have uh it went fire department, we need to have them. Take a look at something.

E

For a building or some sort of access, you know the same process. We should probably have.

F

Yeah lots of communication, yes, and and that's why you know I brought you all here together.

A

Because I feel like there's a role for all of you in this planning piece and in order.

A

To plan in advance of the master plan these, it might be worthwhile to have some joint meetings.

A

And because it's it's not just, uh for example like we, this might be a good place to put.

A

Trails uh that involves trees, usually right and removing trees. It's really important to.

A

Have the discussion around you know, do we want to remove trees in this location? To put in a trail is.

A

This a location that the conservation commission has decided is a location that makes sense for.

A

For development into the more more active recreation opportunity and, and so since.

A

The conservation commission is making those looking at the open space plan.

A

um And and making that those kind of bigger calls on you know: what can we develop? What can we not.

A

Develop, I think it's important that we make sure all of you are having those conversations so that.

A

We can more effectively plan, I think, in the long run, because it's it's great to have an open space.

A

Plan, but if if no one is is saying, oh well, this is you know, this is what we need. Where can we like.

A

Say we need a new kayak uh space to put in kayaks if no one's saying well, this is the space that.

A

We actually think would be most viable and most reasonable and wouldn't impact um property that we.

A

Don't want to develop, then it's a lot easier to to kind of execute on that plan, rather than kind of.

A

You know hoping we can find a space, I think is the and I I'm hope, I'm wanting to make.

A

Sure that we are doing that bigger planning piece um before we develop a master plan that.

A

Then doesn't have any of those kind of long-term that long-term thinking in it. I think you know.

A

We're fortunate, because the staff does a great job of this in coordinating on the staff side.

A

um But sometimes you know having some having some public meetings where you can have some.

A

Residents come forward from neighborhoods that maybe don't have uh resources and want them.

A

um It you know, be helpful to have that kind of open forum discussion around the bigger plan of.

A

Open space and parks so that individuals can say you know our neighborhood doesn't really have a.

A

Space where the kids can go play or or where adults feel like they can go and just sit or.

A

You know we have a lot of bird watchers in the neighborhood and we're sneaking through private.

A

Property to get to this other property that has great bird watching, you know it's it's that.

A

Kind of um making sure that we have that kind of public input, I think, is really critical as well. So.

A

um Or here's another, for instance, you know there was a plan to take worth lot and bridge street lot.

G

And turn those into parks underground the parking and have live entertainment there.

G

G

I think weston and samson did some preliminary.

G

Sketching for that, and but who would advocate, for it.

G

Didn't have a that's all kind of died out.

G

Maybe it's still a good idea.

G

So parks are not just green space outside the downtown parks are in the heart of downtown.

K

B

Yes, I would just had there's: um most urban environments have plazas as well, and they they.

B

Are an important piece of it. It might not be green, but still might be a very useful public space.

A

Thank you for pointing that out. That is important. So, what's interesting,.

H

Is I I'm aware of the work the conservation commission has done the pulas and and the great.

H

uh Sort of efforts that they have made over the years to kind of look at connectivity and the.

H

Wild spaces, the limiteds that we have and and and future acquisitions- and you know, familiar with all.

H

The recommendations- you know oh jones avenue, I mean I've, been here over 20 years and I think.

H

The challenge that we have, um I think in in part, is not that we don't have a lot of good.

H

Ideas, but a lot of these good ideas cost money, and I think that just kind of tucked that in the.

H

Back of your head, because when you're looking at you know it's really, how do you prioritize.

H

The money you have because every time you want to add a program for rec, that's a body.

H

Or some part of a body um or if we're going to acquire property, it means not only do we.

H

Purchase the property like community campus, but then we have all of the maintenance and.

H

Requirements related to that and as barbarosso uh adeptly pointed out that even when there's.

H

No facility on that property, we still have certain obligations depending on how we took that property.

H

And conservation easements to make sure there's no dumping on that property, etc. So I think just tuck.

H

That in the back of your head, because there has been a lot of good planning- that's gone on. But as.

H

We see with the cemetery committee and I think why it's been so active and is because there wasn't.

H

An advocate for a while and in the priority list that went down, I think we've actually been better.

H

At the acquiring property, whether it's been the sagamore headlands, the doing the boat ramps, the.

H

Real you know trying to work on the rail trail, so just like, I said, don't lose sight of that because.

H

I don't think there's anything you've said here that is new to me. It's a question of resources.

H

Both in terms of of staff or you know, money to acquire or facilities to construct. You just have.

H

To tuck that in and it's a prayer all priorities, you know: where do you want to spend your money.

G

Current estimate for phase one in nebraska park- eight million. I think we.

G

Ought to a lot a lot, yeah yeah. I think I think that's a good point. I think climate.

H

Change is gonna have, to maybe be part of the definitely will have to be part.

H

Of the analysis, when we look at next steps for acquiring properties and and.

H

Recreational uses both passive and other, and it's going to have habitat issues. Obviously,.

A

It's a really it's a really important point, um and, and that might be why it's worthwhile having an.

A

Overarching plan that you know, then we can plan. You know what time frames we execute different.

A

Pieces of this plan and, and you know, develop dpw- has a fantastic maintenance schedule already, but.

A

Then that allows also dbw, as we have a plan for developing to figure out. You know what point can.

A

We take on maintenance on a new facility or a new, even if it's just a kayak access point.

A

That you have to keep mowed right, that kind of thing or create a path. um So if we have.

A

The bigger plan, then it's much easier to um for everyone down the road, even if it takes 20 years.

A

30 years, 40 years to get there to realize the plan, it's it's nice to know kind of. What's next.

A

um Yeah, I think the other piece to factor in is- and I've mentioned this to the committee.

H

But just so you know, you know, sometimes the city staff will get inquiries. You know about.

H

Oh I'm interested in perhaps selling my undeveloped property and those do usually.

H

Go through a kind of vetting internally to see how they may match up. I have to.

H

Say peter britz, I think, has done a good job over the years being on the alert for parcels.

H

That may become available. We might have an interested property owner to determine well.

H

Maybe this goes to conservation commission to see. If this is one we should look at acquiring.

H

um That you know, as you know, it's a challenge for a municipality to buy property, sometimes because.

H

We have very specific interests and needs, and that sometimes doesn't always give you.

H

The best price for that we have to do it all in public yeah. Exactly so that's one of the other.

H

Challenges we have, but just so I think everyone is aware that staff is on the lookout for those.

H

Opportunities and bringing them forward to either the city council or the relevant land use boards.

H

um When it looks like there might be some advantage to entering into negotiations.

F

um Yeah- and I think with that comes up this- this conversation is helpful because I mean you know.

F

Just even thinking about the recreation part of it more if, if we're the ones looking at it, because.

F

It has more sense to go to the conservation commission because it's got a lot of value.

F

That way, um but at the same time, thinking about all the other uses, why we're talking about it? I.

F

Think right yeah, which is the idea, would generate probably from you know the recreation saying: hey.

E

We've got to do frisbee golf or whatever you know, and then uh you know and then have you.

E

Look at it and say is that a viable than a viable option to do right on this particular piece or or.

F

Come and say: where do you think that would be a good right option which right we almost.

F

Have enough information to make that record right exactly? I know, because you have a lot.

E

Of good information on the bugs and interest yeah, it's good to talk about it. Absolutely.

A

So with that, um thank you.

D

Oh yes, I just a final thought. Listening to this conversation, you know one of the values of this.

D

Larger policy committee is that you'd have everybody in the room who was balancing those.

D

Competing interests of getting you know, land that we want to just keep natural versus land that we.

D

Want to add additional recreational facilities etc, and to suzanne's point that if you have that.

D

Committee and it's making recommendations to the city as part of either the you know.

D

Capital improvement plan, or otherwise it's already filtered. That was balancing interest in when it.

D

Makes a recommendation- and it's already had the benefit of a lot of public input. You know the the.

D

This committee that I currently chair the master plan implementation committee for prescott park. It.

D

It's really just has two functions: one is to make recommendations to the city manager, uh the process.

D

As it's sort of an extra level of of eyes, looking at it, uh an assistant city manager on implementing.

D

The plan, but also it allows for public input. So instead of the you know, the ppw and the and the.

D

um And the city manager and the consultants kind of working and trying to adjust to things.

D

Like engineering studies and now he every time there's something a change or a development. It.

D

ha It goes to a committee with a public hearing, and people can make their input and then we can.

D

Pass that through as well so it there's a value to having that process to reach a better result.

D

A if nothing else, I even if it took a while to figure out this, what this.

D

Thing might look like I. I almost think having a a joint hearing with.

D

Several of these committees once a year where people come in and express their.

D

Their thoughts and requests and thing would be a helpful for citizens. You know, and particularly if.

D

They're here to talk about wanting to have a new athletic program or a new passive recreational.

D

Thing and there's somebody from conservation commissioners. They will just understand that.

D

You want to do that over near a very sensitive environmental area, like the like the great bog.

D

It gives the public a better perspective of how their choices are impacting right. Others.

A

Thank you um and I guess then I I would like to close our discussion by asking. Are you.

A

All interested in maybe having continued discussions together. um You know if we.

A

Talk with um find ways to get you together together.

A

To continue kind of this discussion and figure out kind of a process for.

A

um Or even further recommendations back to the governance committee on what we should consider.

A

um Does that seem reasonable? Yes, because you know governance committee, we're really not the.

A

Experts on parks- clearly at least I speak for myself- definitely I'm not an expert on parks.

A

Or open space planning- and everyone here really is thinking about that in ways that.

A

um I am not on an everyday basis, so um I really would prefer that you guys decide what makes sense.

A

um In in this in this forum, and then let us know what you think makes sense.

A

I think it would be much more valuable for us I'd like to be kept in the loop.

A

Definitely so, okay, I don't know whether.

D

My committee is so unique in this process that we add value to what you're talking about, because.

D

The same where we are completely planned out so to speak um in in presco park is a unique.

D

Uniquely situated in the downtown area and has a unique set of programming that that.

D

I'm just not sure how we, whether we're a round peg in a square hole.

B

I would comment on that and that what you have is the experience of creating a plan like that.

B

So I think that's valuable, but I'm happy to help out. I just I feel like I would be a.

D

Stump on a log or something just watching the conversation around me, but it's it's.

D

That it's that planning that bigger planning function. I think that is, it's really helpful of.

A

um Because when we talk about a park space, we don't always we don't talk just about the field.

A

You know we're also thinking about um the bigger plan for that space and.

A

um And when we talk about putting in a new field somewhere, we need to know where the best place.

A

In the city is to put the field, what makes the most sense, um and so I think, there's there's.

A

Kind of this bigger discussion that that should probably be taking place um because we want to.

A

Make sure that we're really deliberate? I just had a question about city staff role in this because I.

F

Feel, like city staff, has been handling a lot of this and knows the background and, and I totally.

F

Get the public process and everybody doing that. But what is something to contemplate.

A

And and that's why we spoke with the city staff first, and you know it was interesting because.

A

They all take, they all are responsible for different areas of of what are currently our.

A

Parts and open spaces, um and but we didn't have a clear consensus from the city staff.

A

On what the recommendation should be, you know who should handle this. This bigger function.

A

um And that's why we brought you all here um just to see if you had kind of different.

A

Insights from the perspective of citizens serving um on on your boards or commissions or committees,.

A

And um and so the city staff would definitely be involved um in any further discussions as.

A

Well, so we wouldn't, we definitely wouldn't be excluding them. We want their valuable insights.

A

um We we can't do planning unless we know what maintenance looks like for dpw and and right now,.

A

They do the bulk of all of that maintenance in most of our parks. We have some unique situations.

A

Beyond that yeah, so, okay, all right, thank you. Can I just ask her barbara if you had some materials.

I

That you wanted to share with the committee I'm happy to send those afterwards. Okay, so.

F

Everything's on a thumb, drive that's actually in your laptop okay yeah, but I I have to steal.

H

It back again, you can steal it back and then and then just send it to me or hyperlink through the.

H

Document, that's what I expected, but that might be good for them to know, because I know who the pool.

H

Is- and things like that so yeah, I'm just not gonna, definitely would recommend everybody yep.

A

um Thank you all just for coming today and sharing your insights. We really appreciate it. um I.

A

Wouldn't ask you to sit through, definitely not ask you to sit through the rest of our meeting today.

I

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome all right, um so the next item on our agenda is an update.

A

um I just was going to give a little verbal update on where we are with administrative.

A

Ordinance status and it's something that we had been talking about. Changing the.

A

um Some changes to the administrative ordinance, I'm still working with the legal department on.

A

What is feasible, legally and what's not feasible, so we're still kind of doing research. I didn't.

A

Want anyone to think that that was just out there we're still doing kind of the background work so.

A

I will bring it back when we're from when I have some idea from the legal department. Yes,.

G

If we had a short break, no, um let's break for three four minutes and come back. Maybe I'm.

G

The only one, no it's fine, let's break, let's, let's come back at 11 15., okay,.

A

I was going to here I'm going to stop sharing for just a second, because I want to share with you.

A

um An update that I've been preparing on committee structure, because this.

A

Is something that we have been talking about um here and I want to make sure uh everybody.

A

um Sees kind of like what we've been discussing for a while.

A

um So bear with me just for a second I'm sharing my screen first and I'm going to do a slideshow.

A

If I can get it slideshow so um so I I just started working on a basic powerpoint, just.

A

To show to outline kind of our current committee board commission structure.

A

um Because I think it's it's very confusing uh for most people, it was even confusing for me.

A

When I started first looking at it um so- uh and it can be very confusing because we have so many.

A

Different categories, uh so what I did first is I tried to outline where the city council's role was.

A

um And in relation to our different types of committees, we have quasi-judicial boards and.

A

Commissions- and I note here that it's important to realize that, while they're appointed by the city.

A

Council, they don't necessarily report directly to the city council. They make their own independent.

A

Decisions- and they only report back to the city council when the city council requests a report.

A

Back on something, um but their decisions can be appealed to the city, some of their decisions, not.

A

Not the planning board and zoning board and those those decisions are appealed to a superior court.

A

So um so they don't necessarily report directly to the council.

A

um And so that's why they're here to decide, um but then we have standing committees. We.

A

Have council committees or subcommittees of the council, and we also have blue ribbon committees.

A

So we kind of have three different types of committees operating right now,.

A

um And then, in addition to that, the city manager also oversees regulatory and technical committees.

A

And then we have additional elected boards that while they don't report to the city manager, they.

A

Report through the city manager to the council um so think about the the police department, the.

A

Fire department, the school department they have their own governing structure, but the city council.

A

Didn't report or gets receives reports through the city manager for those entities? Okay, um there's.

A

Also, some there's a also another category here: uh library trustees as well, but their.

A

Governance structure is just slightly different because they don't have an elective board.

A

um And so, when you put these things together and you're looking at this structure, I think it can.

A

Be very confusing to a lot of people. uh It's not all committees report in the same manner.

A

um And and so when you look at the listing of committees um online, someone will say well, I.

A

Didn't know we had a a building commit, you know. Well, that's because it's not a.

A

Committee of the council: it's a regulatory technical committee that reports through.

A

The city manager or the committee reports to the planning board, so we have a few of those as well.

A

So our elected boards and commissions everybody's aware of these besides.

A

The city council, but then we also have you know quasi-judicial boards and commissions.

A

The trustees of the trust fund also has some of that authority as well to act, as we heard.

A

Earlier they used to manage the prescott park, trust in the planning around the prescott park.

A

um And then we also have council subcommittees. I have the veterans committee here because it's the.

A

One that is a question mark for me. Still, I've been working on this for a year, not really clear on on.

A

Where it fits in this structure, but really that's the fees schedule, study committee, governance.

A

Committee land use committee, legislative subcommittee and the land use committee is, is.

A

Unusual because it includes non-council members, but it's really a a committee of the council.

A

And veterans committee, I think, was designed in the same way not as a blue ribbon committee.

A

um But I I again I'm not terribly clear um and then we have standing committees.

A

Everybody knows these committees: these are committees that are established by ordinance.

A

You'll see the trustees of trust funds is here as well. um They kind of have a dual role. There.

A

um And then you have your blue ribbon committees. We have a significant number of blue ribbon.

A

Committees, I have a question around blue ribbon committees and if we should somehow create.

A

Just an ordinance enabling us to have blue urban committees and providing some definition around.

A

What they are, because I think a lot of people don't know what they are. They just they're on the.

A

Website there's no real, clear understanding of how they operate when they operate, how appointments.

A

Work, this is for the general public so that people understand what these are. But again, these are not.

A

Established by ordinance and the majority of them are just established by votes of the city council.

H

And if I can just weigh in these are typically established, that's why it says.

H

Mayor so they're the mayor's special committees and they are typically at.

H

The beginning of each mayoral new mayoral cycle, so every two years.

H

um There's an affirmative vote to re-establish or not the various blue ribbon committees. Yes,.

A

um The the interesting challenge that we have is we have several of these that have been operating.

A

For a very long period of time and who have members that aren't reappointed so so that's.

A

Something that we should also look at potentially as a committee is you know what what really are.

A

The guidelines for a mayor's blue ribbon committee, if, if the case is that you know these are really.

A

The mayor's committees and they're set up every with every new mayor's term. Then the.

A

Council in that term should have a recommendation to re-establish you know the ones the mayor would.

A

Like to re-establish and to vote on everyone who's sitting on those committees to be reappointed.

A

um Yes, it seems to me that there are some of these that probably should be taken out of that group.

B

um I'm looking at a city-wide neighborhood, for example, seems like that's something that.

B

Could and does continue through different councils.

B

I think the um perhaps sustainable practices um mm-hmm, you know I I think we have to look at.

B

That for several of these, yes, yes- and that is the challenge is, do we have several here that.

A

That have existed for a long time, the african bearing grounds stewardship blue.

A

Ribbon committee is another one that that is likely to be around for a very long time.

A

um So uh the portsmouth energy advisory committee made you know who knows what.

A

The end result is there, but it probably made transition to a different status as well. So.

A

um So this is something that we should look at as a committee and if we have recommendations.

A

To make some more permanent, we should probably make those recommendations and move forward with.

A

Ordinance to do so, but we probably should have those conversations with those committees as well.

A

And we have regulatory technical committees- these are the ones that I was highlighting.

A

People don't know all of these actually exist and meet, but they report on technical.

A

Aspects of what we are doing or deal with technical aspects, of what the city's doing.

A

And then we also have the committees that are outside the council authority.

A

So the war board of library trustees they make their own decisions about the library.

A

But they're appointed by the council and but they actually report through the city manager.

A

um Because their budget comes through the the city, then there's the housing authority board.

A

Which is appointed by the council via the mayor, but we they actually have their own outside budget.

A

And their own governing structure, so they don't report through the city manager in the same way.

A

And then we have representatives of the council that are appointed to outside boards.

A

Where we have no authority over any of their decision making, we have representatives there.

G

Well, in the case of rockingham planning, I think counselors of voting. Member of the commission. Yes,.

A

Yes, so, as is somebody from the yeah, so that's but the good the thing is, the council doesn't.

A

Control what happens or like, I think, that's the distinction I was trying to make and I.

A

Think you're right, counselor tabor um we have representatives who have voting authority or.

A

um Get to share views of the council, but the council doesn't have authority over the entity.

A

So, um and do we have a representative to co-host, I don't I didn't we. I didn't know that we do have.

A

A representative to coast, um currently our representative to coast, I believe, is eric evy.

H

Yeah, I think it is eric yeah. So so it's a staff. We have a staff representative, but um that is up.

A

To the purview of the council that can change, that is the mayor could appoint somebody there. So um so.

A

We have different roles that govern committee operations, the elected boards and commissions.

A

Are governed by the charter? Our quasi-judicial boards are governed by state law, city charter.

A

And city ordinance council subcommittees are just governed by council motions, standing committees.

A

Are governed by ordinance city ordinance? um The mayor's blue ribbon committees are again governed.

A

By just council motion uh the regular regulatory and technical committees are much more complicated.

A

Federal law, state law, city charter, city ordinance, some of them follow quasi-judicial committee rules.

A

So those are really specific to what they do and and they're serving as a very specific purpose.

A

And then the others are governed again by state law. Charters rules bylaws their own, not ours. So.

A

A

I just thought it would be helpful to give you all an overview of what I've.

A

Been trying to create this chart to help explain to people how our committees work.

A

So that we can start making those distinctions between committees for our residents, so I think.

A

It's a little less confusing in the long run for for people trying to determine do. I want.

A

To serve on a committee how you know what is this, how does this committee work? What.

A

Are the rules for this committee because if you join especially a mayor's blue ribbon committee,.

A

um And you come to your first meeting a lot of times. There are no specific set rules for that.

A

Committee and and you don't know exactly what the operations should be or are so.

A

um So we also left out the the please board. Has a portsmouth appointed representative.

A

Yes, yes, peace does and so and you know and that's another that's an example of one of those outside.

A

Outside entities where we appoint so um so just this was just supposed to be informational. Today,.

A

To help help share kind of where I am and trying to to create some understanding.

A

um Around committees and committee structure- and I will keep working on that with the city.

A

Until we have answers on all of them and then um maybe talk to uh our city clerk about ways that.

A

That we can make sure uh we provide education to people who are interested in committees.

A

Around what committee's functions are and and the structure and then- and this gives.

A

Us kind of some idea of maybe things we need to address too: around mayors, blue ribbon committees.

A

um And with that said, I'm going to move on to new business.

A

Today I brought forward a motion, a draft motion just for discussion based upon our last committee.

A

Meeting around fee study, um if you'll remember at our last governance committee meeting, we briefly.

A

Discussed that maybe feastavity might need a third person so that we have uh the ability.

A

There to vote and not have a one-to-one vote, and so I drafted some language and.

A

uh The language I drafted was a simple move to add a third city councilor to the fee.

A

Study committee to allow for a decisive vote when there are differing viewpoints.

A

And the history around this, our city clerk, was very kind to bring the history.

A

um The initial decision to establish the feast study committee was made in april of 1982.

A

um And it was a mayor's suggestion that it might make sense to have three council members um work.

A

On with appropriate official officials to review fee schedules, um specifically, they were looking.

A

For fee schedules for with the fire department, the recreation department, outdoor pool ambulance and.

A

Anything that might need to be changed and have recommendations. Come back to the council for the.

A

Following june and it was seconded and voted and then in may they came up with a new fee schedule.

A

um And uh they they essentially just came back to the council, gave the fee schedule.

A

And then the fee study committee just continued to operate from then on so again this is one of.

A

Those committees that was established by a motion of the council um and and really is a subcommittee.

A

Of the council or council committee, so in order to alter it, all we have to do is pass a motion.

A

um At the council level- and so that's why you have this draft language, why did it go to two.

B

After it was appointed for it as three, I have no idea, and I don't think any of us know, and I think.

B

So there was not a vote to reduce the size of the committee, it just so that is still there.

B

Then well the origin of the committee. It still says three: we have a tradition of appointing two.

A

At this stage, so it might be helpful it just as a reminder to the council that you know.

A

um Let's point: let's: let's pass go ahead and pass a motion to make it three. If that's the.

A

Recommendation of the committee, so um so I don't want to prejudge the recommendation of.

A

The committee I put forward draft language just based upon our last discussion, so.

G

So the origin of it was to create the table of fees.

G

And have some place that some body that would review that so that those could be added into the.

G

Budget without the budget processing and having to go through every single one of the 150 fees.

G

um I wonder how it got from three to two yeah yeah: it it's hard to to to track that information down.

A

um The the challenges the city clerk would have to go through every single motion and then you might.

A

Not even find one, it might just be that that at some point a mayor didn't appoint a third person.

A

Or somebody decided they didn't want to serve on the committee anymore, and so you might have.

A

Even appointed three, but halfway through a term someone decided they didn't really want to serve.

A

On the committee and the mayor didn't appoint somebody to replace them, and then it became two.

A

So yeah yeah yeah, I mean it's a practical matter because it's not in an ordinance and defined.

H

This this city council, can buy one vote of the body, decide how many it would like to.

H

Have on the fee committee so say: if you would like three then could have three.

I

So you're on the committee right, john I'm on the committee. So what do you think of that.

G

Well, we've! Never in all our years that I've been on it three years.

G

Had anything referred to us, that was a first um and our work has typically been.

G

To look at the the schedule of fees one by one and make sure that they represent just.

G

Covering the cost of the city and and not much more um so it was almost an administrative task.

G

But it was good to have counselors on there because they have a sense, for you know.

G

Pushing back if it looks like a fee is going up too much or or maybe spotting one that.

G

Is a growing area of cost in the budget that you know does.

G

It really cover the cost, but it was very narrow. Scope of duties.

G

um You know we could add it. I think it would be good to add a third person just so there's no.

G

The inability to pass emotion with.

G

One person four and one person who won't second is is obviously a flaw.

H

I was just gonna say I concur. It's always been a fairly narrow um mission. Shall we save the.

H

Fee committee, which is I don't, I can't remember anything- this has been oh, maybe once before, but.

H

It's been a while, since something was referred to the fee committee, it does tend to be a more of a.

H

Housekeeping part of the budget process that we start here internally and have a city counselor.

H

Sit on the fee committee precisely to kind of answer. Some of these questions.

H

And vet them, you know: does this make sense in terms of a fee increase so.

B

So I guess what I would say is um the choice or the decision, as far as I can see, is that.

B

um You want a body that can vote, um and, um but you also the other side of that, is that.

B

Means you're encumbering at the time of another counselor, so I would I would listen to john's.

B

Recommendation on this way to go- and I would second whatever he says- depends on the scope.

G

Of work, you know if, if it continues to be the small, the narrowly defined scope of work.

G

uh You may not need a third counselor, but if we're going to be referred, tricky questions like.

G

um Outdoor dining or storm water.

G

um You know, there's there may be merit to it.

G

B

All right, then, I'll make the motion to add a third person.

A

Is there a second.

K

I just I just really hadn't thought about that that how vital is the need.

G

G

All right you've proposed a motion I'll second, for this [laughter].

K

Do you want to get there? I could shed some light on a couple of other things that are involved here.

D

But I can wait: okay, it's up to the chair, owl, second, for discussion; okay, second,.

A

For discussion, and do you want to suspend the rules in um have the offer of public.

B

Comment on this motion: uh let's, let's go ahead and suspend the rules and bring up.

A

Public comment in general before we finish the discussion on this committee, if somebody would.

A

uh Decision, yeah I'll second, on that all in favor aye, okay, um is there a public comment, yeah.

A

And- and this is the public comment section in general, so feel free, so I.

A

Need to hit everything else that I wanted to hit yeah.

B

Are you sure it's okay, okay, peter hoon, at 280, south street? uh I was on the fee committee with.

L

Councilor tabor and um a little more enlightenment on why the fee committee is so important and it's.

L

So important for it to meet when it does is, um it is part of the budgeting process. um The fees add.

L

Into the budget every year, so it's one of those things that um the staff needs the guidance of.

L

That committee, yay or nay on what they bring forward to actually move that revenue big or.

L

Small as it is into the budget, so they can account for that. So that's that's the other side of this.

L

um As far as uh another counselor on there, I I don't have a opinion either way. I think.

L

It's a it's an important committee based on its involvement in the budget.

L

So um that's something for you to consider when you're, when you're thinking about this.

L

um As to the importance of having two or three or whatever I mean, it hasn't been that um a big.

L

Issue came up on this, but um there there are. Staff goes through and actually reviews all of our fees.

L

um Yearly- and this is the main purpose.

L

That's right, so that's that's on that! Okay! So do you want me to keep going or not might as well.

L

Do your thing, okay, so the next thing, since it's fresh on my mind, um counselor click when you put.

L

Up your flow chart, um I noticed that you had the city manager outstanding by themselves. The city.

L

Manager, reports to the council, you missed the line, that's the only thing I noticed.

L

There was no line going for the city councilor that I saw reporting directly to the council.

L

And I think that's very important. The city city manager is not stand alone.

L

um On your other committees, um it was great that you had everybody here, but I would agree with tom.

L

um Being on the prescott park um master plan committee, um it seems looking in from the.

L

Outside that you, the the all of the members here, are looking for a process you'd like to bring.

L

In anybody who would like to suggest a a park or anything else, and I think the governance committee.

L

Is the perfect committee to establish this process and define what what a resident would do? What what.

L

If a request came from conservation or wreck, um I think what what is needed here desperately is.

L

A process for them to say: oh, I know what I should do now bam bam bam. So um I think this.

L

Committee is the perfect committee to do that and I guess the other thing I would say on that.

L

um I'd also agree with tom that some in in the case of different requests on this, you.

L

Probably won't even need one committee or another committee or another committee, and that should be.

L

Decided by either governance or or the council, and that's all I have to say thank you. Thank you.

A

All right I'm going to go ahead and see no one on zoom, um I'm gonna go ahead and close public.

A

Comment and uh we will resume our discussion of this fee study draft motion that is on the table.

A

Any other thoughts on well emotion, maybe I'm just getting innately conservative in my late 60s, but.

G

um I think the the it's been correctly stated that you need a couple of counselors to look at the.

G

Fee schedule so that that is ready to roll into the budget and um and that's the purpose.

G

I'm not sure we have to burden the third counselor with with participation. I think.

G

It's it's a been a pretty clean process in my years on on the fee committee, so.

G

Aside from this one incident, where we were referred, a hot potato.

G

It's worked reasonably well.

G

So I wouldn't be jumping to change it, but I wouldn't oppose it. If the two of you.

G

You'll find if the two of you felt it was important to do.

G

I don't know- and I would respond to that- I would agree with the majority of.

B

Sex and you know it's it's not, I mean that's why I was trying to defer to you.

B

So, anyway, it's a challenge. You know my my thoughts on this are.

A

um We may not need the third person on fee study, but if something is referred to fee study that.

A

Might may be a difficult decision and we do need a third person. It's too late to add the third person.

A

So um I wonder if you can, if it's possible not to necessarily.

A

Add a third person- and this is a legal question but add a um because the words not alternate but a.

A

Standby member, as a of the fee study committee for discussions beyond the standard.

A

Do you see what I'm saying anyway, so this is why we need three people in this room. Yes, it is so.

B

You know we would we don't want to end up in a situation where we don't have the third member.

A

Or maybe it's an education issue where we say to the council, we don't necessarily believe there's.

A

A need for a third person on the feed study committee, but if your, if anything is referred.

A

To the fee study committee beyond its regular scope of work, then it's a simple motion to add.

A

A third person bingo, okay, I know we could do that on an ad hoc basis. Yes, yes, good.

A

Since it's just a single motion, so is that is that a friendly amendment to the uh the motion.

H

It was just due based on this conversation. You could do a report back to the city council.

H

That says we discussed this. We believe the fee committee is very important in.

H

The role it serves in the budget process, foreign, but absent special referrals. We.

H

Feel it's sufficient with two counselors, but if there is going to be a special referral.

H

For particular item, please add an additional member for purposes of that special referral.

H

Something along that line and that can be done by a simple motion of the council.

A

With the referral when the referral is made, and we we might also highlight that the the fee study.

A

Committee members can also request to have a third member added if something is referred.

A

To the committee for that, for that particular discussion. Well, that's a little weird because if.

B

If one person wants and the other person doesn't right, you know yeah, and I think it's just that I.

B

Think it's a vote of the council and is: is it fair to say that the mayor.

G

According to the original motion, has the power to add a third at any point.

A

I think it is fair to say, um but I I will say that.

A

um It was established for the purpose of just evaluating the budget and having a report back.

A

By june 7th of 1982.- and um they came back with a report back in may may 3rd of 1982 with a news.

A

um Fee study and I'll read the report back, so you all understand um a new fee schedule. Mr kenny.

A

Suggested giving this to the newly appointed fee committee council, councilman foley, moved.

A

That the compilation of fees be given to the fee committee seconded and voted mayor weeks asked.

A

That the manager also give a complex compilation of what of what this would do to increase revenues.

A

This is what was discussed in the city council meeting and, and that was.

A

The extent of further discussion that we know of.

B

So, and with all this, I'm going to withdraw my motion as long as the second agrees sure.

A

um I'm happy to report back to the council at the next meeting. If that is amenable to.

A

Everyone on the governance committee that um we have discussed this and uh the consensus is that.

A

The current structure is adequate to deal with its regular tasks, but if there is a need to um address.

A

A task that fall outside of its regular order of business that, due to the original motion in 1982.

A

The mayor has the ability to appoint a third member to the committee. Does that seem reasonable.

G

That we're kind of passing the buck to the mayor, but um and and we can say and.

A

Or the council could could um could suggest a motion to a passage? Yes exactly counseling any.

A

Counselor, so okay does that seem reasonable, yeah yeah. Okay, that will be my report back.

A

um uh That's it for new business. um We have had public comment already.

A

And I don't see any new additions um to the meeting uh announcements uh last thing for.

A

The committee, uh our next meeting is february 27th um we're going to discuss donations policy.

A

Fee study and continuity discussion around parks or planning around parks.

A

um Then that discussion continues on the 13th around donations policy, hopefully by then we can.

A

Get back to the administrative ordinance um and uh I pulled up conflict of interest to march 27th.

A

um That would that would mean that we have about a month two more meetings and hopefully we'll have.

A

Something on donations policy at that stage is there any thing else that anyone wants to share.

G

Just wanted to compliment the chairman on bringing together everybody involved in green space and.

G

Parks, I thought it was great discussion and we'll see where it takes us and you will all.

A

Notice in your packet- and it's also included in the agenda the scheduled meetings for the year.

A

So that we're all aware of when our next meetings are so with that I'll take a motion for adjourn.

B

Absolutely is there a second second all in favor, aye aye. Thank you all.