City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 30 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: 1.30.2023 Governance Committee

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1.30.2023 Governance Committee

A

Where's the chorus we're getting started. Okay, welcome uh to the governance committee meeting.

B

I'd like to call this meeting to order uh we'll start with a roll call.

B

Counselor tabor here councilor lombardi here and I'm counselor cook, and I am here.

B

uh The first thing on our agenda is to review and approve the minutes from january 9th to.

B

2023, I will share those on the screen, so everyone is aware that we have the minutes.

B

If you are watching um this from home, the minutes are also available on the website.

C

We accept the minutes. Is there a second yeah? uh Any questions comments.

C

In addition to the record to have all those former mayors.

B

So yes, this was quite a long meeting. um We, we were very fortunate to have several former mayors join.

B

Us- and I still thank them again for doing so um so with that, can I get a vote to approve all in favor.

D

Aye aye any opposed no other minutes are approved. I think that detail minutes was.

D

Really good actually um to have it and they're very helpful. Sometimes you know.

D

Detail, you don't need the detail, but I thought that was good.

B

um We are going to go ahead and move on to old business uh we had discussed. I should say that.

B

We had, we had talked about having a parks discussion at this meeting, but we postponed.

B

That until middle of february, to make sure we could get enough people here to have that parks.

B

Discussion instead, we moved up the discussion around uh draft language on a donations policy.

B

And I'm going to share that document with us. um I want to preface our discussion to say.

B

Today, by saying that this is a very early draft form of this document and it's based upon the.

B

Work that the committee has done in the past and discussing donations and donations, policies and.

B

We are just now looking at this language, so we're going to go through it in quite.

B

A bit of detail today, but not anticipate any action today on the language. So with that said,.

B

I will bring up my the donations policy. I have to stop sharing and re-share.

B

So bear with me.

B

Here is the draft donations policy if this- and I will try to see if I can get it back.

B

We're going to try to adjust it, so anyone at home can make sure that they see this on the recording.

B

Because this is the draft form of the donations policy.

B

um And it starts out by just explaining the objective for writing. The donations policy.

B

It's I think that that it's important to remember here, that we don't really have a general.

B

Policy around donations. We have several other policies.

E

Yeah, if I could just clarify so the city council has never adopted a donation.

E

Policy, so that is what this is intended to do, which is to give some more specific direction.

E

um At the city council level, as you know, the it has been the practice to bring donations to.

E

The city council, but it has been a practice- it's not actually documented anywhere, so it was kind.

E

Of starting with that premise and balancing in the fact that some of the parts of the municipal.

E

Organization have very detailed policies and practices such as the library because they have.

E

A board of library trustees, the library trustees under their governing authority under chapter one.

E

Have the authority to accept donations, and that is in part, why I invited chris steam freeze the.

E

Library director to be here because she has such great experience working with the library.

E

Trustees and I thought it might be valuable to this committee to get her perspective.

E

um As you also know, the police department has a policy and practice of how they bring.

E

Them up, although the city council does see those ones, so I just thought it's a evolving.

E

Opportunity here to get a little more definition and trying to meet the committee's needs, but I.

E

Think it's definitely a conversation. Thank you and I think it's really important for.

B

Us to remember that all these other entities in the city do have their own policies, and so.

B

It's not the goal, I think of this exercise to to supersede anyone else's policies. The.

B

Goal is to create a policy so that the council understands what the policies are.

B

Across the whole system, so that everyone is very familiar with our processes and that it's clear.

B

um So, starting with the objective and purpose um it's this is very general language and uh working.

B

With a deputy city manager, deputy city attorney, um I asked for assistance in drafting language.

B

Based upon policies, other cities use, so we're not reinventing the wheel here. These are policies that.

B

Are coming from other places that seem to fit more or less the way, portsmouth is doing things.

B

And to provide us guidance where we don't have clear guidance.

B

So you will note here.

B

That this is kind of a general overarching view of what the objective is.

B

And then we also make sure that we provide language here to allow the other entities.

B

To accept donations and to have their policies, I think that that's really critical.

B

Again- and we don't want to supersede anyone.

B

Unless we find a practice to be a considerable problem in that.

B

Case we might want to provide a little guidance.

B

But I don't think we have found that so far.

B

So did everyone? Has everyone looked at this.

C

Yeah, I um I think we've done a good job in this draft of.

C

Protecting against self-interest and protecting against.

C

Self-Interest for the donor or self you know or anything that would compromise city.

C

um I did have a question about.

C

The language around ongoing maintenance, okay, the donation- shall include an endowment sufficient to.

C

Cover them I.e 20 times the estimated amounts so we're saying 20 times the annual amount.

E

uh Hang on which section are you in I'm in 8b? Did you wanna and you know maybe we can get. We can.

C

Delay that until we get to it, if you want to go sequentially, let's go sequentially so that we make.

B

Sure that we're bringing everyone along at home- okay- because I don't think anyone's- had a chance.

B

To look at this, I want to make sure that everyone has a chance to really look in the language.

B

um uh If there are no questions and on objective and purpose, um when we get to scope.

B

I think it's important to highlight here that it.

B

We do say that the policies intended to encompass all donations made it today.

E

And I I left like I said I used a model from another community, but what she'll see is when.

E

You get to like the donations process and accepting donations under paragraph three.

E

It calls out that the school board and the library board of trustees um have authority.

E

To basically handle their own donations and it could probably be said more artfully.

E

um But I'm assuming that what you would set here at the city council level would.

E

Be kind of broad policy and kind of what you'd like to see come to the city council.

E

For specific approval and recognition and basic processes, but the details and the implementation.

E

Of those policies and practices take place, at least particularly for some of you know like.

E

The library and the school really within their own structure, but they wouldn't be inconsistent.

E

So that was my hope that the I don't know if we've achieved that because I haven't circulated this.

E

To everyone, so this is just a very preliminary draft to to get some initial feedback and thinking.

E

With my thought that, then I would circulate whatever draft sort of emergence from here.

E

To all of the departments to the school, do you see anything that seems inconsistent? You know.

E

Suggestions and then bring that reporting back to all of you, so that was my. My thinking is to.

E

Kind of hit the highlights with the thought that I would then gather input from all of these entities.

E

And we'll see if we have hopefully a nice, you know there's an umbrella and then there's all these.

E

Pieces that really get done just consistent with and really implementing the details.

E

So that was my my thought we'll see, I think we'll get there um and I will ask our library.

B

Director, if you have, if you see anything, please feel free to jump in to the conversation. Okay,.

B

Because you have direct experience with this in ways that the council hasn't dealt with us.

B

At this level, yet I'm taking notes- and I think at the appropriate time we can.

F

Walk through, but this is great so um you'll see generally the scope.

B

You'll see the exclusions. I think that this is key, where we have other policies where we exclude.

B

We just did a an update to our public art policy that has real clear guidelines on on donations.

B

Volunteerism, that's an important exclusion um is kind of a donation in kind of time.

E

Exactly that's why I figured we ought to be expressed about it.

B

We have ordinance that also defines gifts to individual employees, so it's important to.

B

Recognize that if the city council adopts this policy, this is a policy of the council, not an.

B

Ordinance an ordinance supersedes it right and that's why public art is excluded. It's also an.

B

Organization, I also what I saw with in some of the policies in other communities is that they would.

E

Somewhat blur or or try to capture everything in one policy and, as you know,.

E

Gifts to individual employees, you know at christmas time someone brings in a box of.

E

Candy or something that we really weren't talking about that kind of gift, what we're.

E

Looking at are the donations that are for the benefit of the organization in some form.

E

Whether it's cash or money to support a program or books or other tangible items, the park benches.

E

Etc, so I was cognizant to try and keep it within a very specific realm for clarity and ease we'll see.

D

um I'm looking at 2.2 c yep: yes, the donations um to individual employees are governed by.

D

Chapter one yep: what is chapter where, where is that? um So that is the section.

E

In which the ethics ordinance exists and there's a limit of a hundred dollars, okay.

E

I don't have the site off the top of my head, but it's in that section of something else inciting it.

D

The nation shouldn't be given to individuals or.

D

Something where and where did I see that article 8 is the code of ethics.

B

So if they're, no clear more questions here, we'll look at um definition.

B

Yeah, do you see where the well I was under general conditions, uh 4.2, okay,.

D

So I mean that seems a little conflict of those. I guess.

E

Yeah, I agree. We need to kind of tweak that okay.

D

It just stuck out yep yeah. I think what were my, I think, what was intended and maybe there's a way to.

E

Draft language to reconcile is you wouldn't want a gift kind of like an endowed chair? So I think if.

E

You are a faculty member. You wouldn't want that faculty, member necessarily to be soliciting for.

E

Their own endowment to you know a tenured because you know they're they're funded chair. I, like I.

E

Said I kind of cut and paste from someone else's, so I think if we could circle that and we'll kind.

E

Of noodle that over, but I think that's the there's one thing like I said trying to find that you go.

E

To a conference- and you want to be able to eat the free lunch when you're an employee right.

E

um It's trying to not regulate that because that's already regulated as it can't be.

E

Worth more than 100 bucks in the chapter one there, um but there might be other types of.

E

Yeah intersections, where, where the gift is to the entity, meaning the city of portsmouth,.

E

Or the rec department or the library, but you don't want it to individually benefit.

E

An employee exactly so you don't want somebody donating a certain amount of.

B

Money in order for an employee whose job has been eliminated by chance, so they can keep their job.

B

Yep, which is always a possibility that somebody steps in and says well I'll, donate the money.

E

Or maybe you do, maybe that's not an issue, so I just I flag it, but.

E

I think that's why, in the like, I said the draft, I was cutting and pasting from.

E

But maybe you do want someone to say: okay, I'm gonna donate all new. Let's say furniture.

E

You know I'm just trying to think ahead, and this is what I thought more voices and why it'll be.

E

Good to get feedback from the other departments, because there may be a whole list of scenarios.

E

That happen and we should kind of weigh them. So that's why I'm thinking get the input today.

E

And I'll circulate it and we'll get input back which I'll deliver to you and say: okay, do you.

E

Think we should tweak this, or what do you think so, exactly so to what yeah kate just said, though,.

D

um So let's say there's a position that someone says. I really think this position is important.

D

um My friend is in that position, but so but I can fund the position um that doesn't necessarily.

D

Mean you have to retain that person, but if you want to retain that person, how does is that a.

D

Is that a conflict? It's a question right because it kind of does set up a conflict.

B

um Because then you might lose the donor if you don't retain the person. So that's the that's where.

B

The conflict, I think, really arises, the question is, is around ethics and do you? Can you accept.

B

Donations with strings attached and that would ultimately be with exceptions, perhaps for library.

E

And school, which have clear authority to to accept their own donations, that would be for the city.

E

Council, because it comes with strings, it's a you know, as we've brought any number of donations to.

E

The city council, for example, for the cemetery work where they want it. You know to go for a cemetery.

E

For building the database to identify where certain graves are located, it's very specific.

E

And it requires the city council to say: yes, we think that's an approved and important purpose.

E

um So you're agreeing to those special strings and that's the way from my perspective, it should.

E

Be done because they are special strings yeah, so that might be the might be the check if.

E

You will we might be able to take out that 4.2, knowing that our structure generally is.

E

Those string anything with strings attached do tend to come.

E

To the city council for confirmation that you're willing to accept those limitations.

E

So I'll put a little flag that one right there, let's get there, let's get through.

B

The twos and the yeah yeah so that we make sure we've actually reviewed these publicly.

B

um The definition of donations is followed by the examples of donations.

B

Then there's the donation process right after that.

B

And basically, this this allows internally for the development of of policies.

B

uh And that's, I think, really important, because most of our departments have policies.

B

Just the council that really doesn't so so um this this basically endorses.

B

That procedure, what about um you know the one that you always hear about is.

C

A city, official or a government official is hosted at an event or taken off to.

C

Fenway park and somebody buys them tickets, so um transportation is provided for a.

C

So so gifts of entertainment, transportation, that kind of thing well again that wouldn't.

E

Be addressed by this policy because that you're talking about an individual gift, as I'm hearing.

E

You to an employee or a board member, and that is governed right now, just by section.

E

um The chapter one section: eight, which is 100 bucks. So if that the value of that ticket or.

E

The value of that item- and I have had inquiries over the years in legal departments- hey- I won x,.

E

At you know at some event, can I accept it and we look at the value of it and.

E

Then sometimes they turn it down because it's more than than that, so so these are strictly.

C

Donations um for assets or programs of the city correct now, if you want to you know, we could talk.

E

Elsewhere, but I'm just trying to yeah, keep it very clear right and we'll get to that other piece. I.

B

Think that's important to remember. That's! That's actually on our docket for the the year is looking.

B

At the actual ethics rules, yeah so yeah, so we will get there as part of this overall debt review.

B

So when we get to section three, it's on accepting donations.

B

I think that it's important here there's a noted exception for the school board and the library.

B

Board of trustees: this is current practice. This section requires us to think about. Do we.

B

Like the current practice, do we want the current practice to be modified? Do we want more entities.

B

To take on their own their own responsibility for review as well, I mean that's the other.

B

Big question: does the city council want to review donations to police and fire.

B

um That both have their own elected commissions as well.

B

So, um in that sense, there's not a lot of difference from them in the school board.

B

And the trustees of the library so yeah think thinking about. Do we want everyone.

B

To follow the practice that we see right now with the library and the school board, or do we.

B

Like it, as is with fire and police still coming through city hall and through the city council,.

C

Normally I I'd like to devolve that authority to the boards and commissions.

C

But over the years there have been.

C

Gifts and money back and forth, involving police that I think.

C

Need to keep an eye on yeah. Well, that's extreme examples of that too. You know.

D

D

We have to be cautious with that just for all, if for nothing else, for.

D

The visibility of it right, yeah.

B

um And I guess here the other question is: uh do we put in a clause that if, if we hit.

B

A certain donation level, or if we hit a certain that I mean you, could push this back and say.

B

When we're getting donations of five dollar gift cards or ten dollar gift cards, which is what the.

B

Council sees a lot of times coming through the police department. Right does. Does the council.

B

Review that or does the police commission review that and then but then, if anything, is a a grant.

B

A major donation over donations over a certain amount, get reviewed. You know we could also tie.

B

You know certain provisions to things before they come to the council as well yeah, and I think that.

D

Could be a higher threshold than the hundred dollars yeah? I just threw something in here.

B

So you know we could put everyone in the same position but have certain requirements.

B

For those two other entities entities that when we hit a certain level of donation,.

B

That it comes before the council or a certain type of donation comes before the council. Had we.

C

Talked about a threshold level before a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars. No, I just grabbed.

E

That a lot of communities, as far as I could see, do use thresholds and this actually I can. I can.

E

Tell I must have been interrupted when I was drafting this section, because I I feel like it.

E

Needs to get broken up and restructured a little bit differently, um but um a lot of communities.

E

Don't bring every donation, as the city council now sees. You know, library and.

E

School accepted they have a threshold and what they do is perhaps they do a quarterly report.

E

Where they say, okay, here are all the smaller donations and you just kind of it's for.

E

Informational purposes- and you know you gives the city council an opportunity to kind of acknowledge.

E

In a more public document here it is now frankly, we've got a website. You can literally post.

E

Every donation somewhere and then when you get the quarterly rapport you update it and you know, make.

E

Little fanfares or something you know there are things to do that. We, you know um when we have more.

E

Support with the website we could, we could do more of in terms of that notice and public recognition.

E

Piece a lot will um yeah, so it really is kind of up to you. I do think it's an interesting idea for.

E

Police and fire so leaving aside again library and school, which tends to do its own thing for.

E

Police and fire, you could set a threshold of say: 50, bucks or 100 bucks. So whenever all those small.

E

Little gift cards come in for pizzas, and things like that that they get which often they you know.

E

Will just distribute um within the department you know it just goes through their processes.

E

um And- and you don't have to to see all those, but they record them because, as you know, they.

E

Have their process that they go through in terms of a donation comes in or a gift of food comes.

E

In and how they process that that we just leave that all in their realm and it's anything over.

E

50 bucks or that's cash or, however, you want to structure. It would then come to.

E

The city council for more formal recognition and acceptance and kind of provide that check for you.

E

um So that's an option. You know do that and see how it goes.

E

You know, I guess my thought was that there's.

D

There is an elected body that oversees that so I think I guess I was thinking a threshold would be.

D

More than fifty dollars more more than a hundred dollars.

D

um I don't know what it would be, but um because there's an elected body that does oversee that.

D

And then the only the only problem becomes then, and I- um and this is a thing I know the.

D

Mayor is very interested in is having public recognition or for things so.

D

um I mean, I think we all are interested in that, but I know he's adamant. We could probably.

E

Certainly do a better job on public recognition. I think that's something we tuck into our well.

D

I just in thinking about having some a larger amount go through the police, commissioner, fire.

D

Commission and not the council, so I wonder if we couldn't, I mean we could publish it on the website.

B

We could also um publish it in the newsletter potentially quarterly, maybe in the newsletter.

B

um And the other way that we could do this is we could attach to the council packet. You know.

B

Once every quarter, all the a list of all the donations with a thank you. Thank you for all.

B

These and reference age, yeah and reference it and say you know: we've received one a lot of.

B

Donations, the city appreciates you know, make make sure that we highlight that in a council.

B

Meeting without going through the individual, every individual donation, I think one of the.

B

Advantages of the smaller donations not coming to the council is: it helps address the concern around.

B

Not necessarily um identifying all the donations that come into police and fire, you know they have.

B

Conflict of interest policies of their own around identification of donations, because.

B

It you don't want any undue influence for donations coming in. um So if they're, they.

B

Come in quarterly to the council- and it doesn't say this donation to the police, it just says.

B

A donation, you know, and it lists the monitoring amount. Then nobody knows where that donation went.

B

So there is that advantage as well. um You know it. That's that's very important. I think.

B

Especially um in avoiding those conflicts, yeah yeah for them and as you'll recall from our past.

E

Discussions where we kind of touched on this, some of the the police department, sometimes.

E

Really wants to have anonymous donations precisely so that, although the you know, the the police chief.

E

And- and the commission may know who the donation is from, they may want to hold withhold that.

E

Information from the ranking officers so that there's no perception that some business that.

E

May have donated something doesn't get any kind of preferential treatment that you know really trying.

E

To maintain that sense of you know we're all treated equally, um which is you know, particularly.

E

Given the nature of their work and their intersections with the public has a lot of value.

E

um And certainly um you know, as we saw when we looked at the police department's, existing sops.

E

That they, they were cognizant, rightly of that, um and that's why the commission would often hear.

E

About certain donations in in their non-public sessions so that they could maintain that.

E

um You know anonymity and and try and be cognizant of no preference. I think there's.

B

Also an advantage at the council level for some of these things say somebody wanted to donate to.

B

The city specifically to a department that has a responsibility for some kind of code enforcement.

B

um You don't want to identify to the people working in code enforcement who made that.

B

Donation or that it was made directly to benefit them from a certain individual.

B

So um while you can recognize the individual for the overall donation, you don't have to say.

B

Who it went to in the city so that there is no perception of of uh favors and code enforcement?.

B

It's really critical: does the legal department ever get donations [laughter].

E

um I I would say we we get uh candy dropped off at christmas, that's kind.

E

Of the it's those kind of things at the holidays, yeah.

B

um I know that the library deals with donations in this sense. um Have you hadn't had any experience.

B

With um wanting to try to, I mean the library's in a unique position that I think you generally.

B

Are happy to get donations, but is there? How does the library kind of deal with this perception of.

B

Conflict ever I'll, give you a couple examples. um Now I haven't in my tenure not only as director.

F

But as assistant director we haven't had any we've had an additional donation. We haven't had.

F

Any really big kind of we want to give you fifty thousand dollars kinds of donations, but we've had.

F

A couple of things that'll give you an example of of things that we question. I go to a conference.

F

Every year and that even perception, um so it's nice. I thought it was 50. So it's nice to know it's.

F

100 but there's a perception. I feel that if, if I were considering a vendor, we don't work with and.

F

They said, let me take you to dinner, I would say no or I would say I'll go but I'll we'll pay for.

F

It because, because even if it was fifty dollars, I think that there's this perception of I, like your.

F

Wording here, no reciprocal consideration is sought right, there's just that it's a bad optics, so we.

F

Deal with that on occasion, we do get cookies and candy at holidays and some other times of the year.

F

um We more frequently and we we do have occasionally bigger pieces, like you may have seen.

F

The donations that put the statue out front for a memorial to a library patron those go through.

F

A lot of discussion because of as you mentioned in here operational maintenance, you know what.

F

We're somebody says what you really need is a park bench and we say: no, we really don't or we don't.

F

Want to have to maintain that more frequently we get monetary donations of fifty a hundred dollars.

F

Either for for no reason, I got one for last month for a hundred dollars because you guys are doing.

F

A great job and there was clearly no strings attached, no expectations, and that is easy. Then.

F

There are those that are given a memorial to a by a family who says please give to the library.

F

In lieu of flowers or something in those cases, we go to the family and say: we've received x dollars.

F

Tell us about tell us about your loved one, because that will guide us in you know they were gardeners.

F

They were artists, they were and then we can say to them. You know we're looking at maybe putting.

F

This toward programming or toward materials and we'd like it, because it's in their honor we'd.

F

Like to respect that, but again there's no, it's very clear in our donations that it's it's up.

F

To us to decide that and that nobody could come in and say you must buy xyz books. That is not.

F

Good, we also get things in kind, but since we're mostly talking about money I'll I'll skip that.

F

The other one that has always seemed clear to me is that if- and I don't think it's covered in this.

F

um Policy at all is grants, so they clearly have strings.

F

And it would never occur to me not to take that to the council to say we have not only.

F

For acknowledgment yay, we got a federal grant, but also because hey they're expecting us to match the.

F

Funds or we have to do reporting or we have to use it for certain objectives, but otherwise we would.

F

Be looking at all of those things with regard to our mission and our values and seeing if there was.

F

Some reason not to accept from a given entity and generally, as I told suzanne at one point, ours are.

F

Generally from individuals, these are not, generally speaking with the exception of the garden club.

F

Which gives us an annual donation which is most appreciated and is clearly around gardening? We.

F

Don't generally get things from from groups that that have any they certainly don't have.

F

A say in it, but they also generally don't have an agenda. I think, is different from some places.

B

Really very very helpful, yeah and I'll make a note I'll add an express provision in here.

E

Somewhere that says all grants, because that was intended, would still continue to come to.

E

The city council from the usual sources- I don't know if you want me to talk about book donations,.

F

At this point, or you want to get to the book book, donations are particularly tricky. I'd, say.

B

um I don't know, I don't know if it's, this is the right spot. Let me ask before you leave accepting.

E

Donations and move to books, you kind of toyed with what to do about that hundred.

E

Dollar figure, whether you want to see them all whether you do you have a recognizing that this.

E

Is still preliminary not locked in I'll get feedback from the other departments? You know.

E

um But do you do you have a feeling on on on this at all.

B

Go ahead, counselor taper! Oh, I think the lower it is. The more things are visible. So I think if.

C

It's a hundred dollars, that's good, particularly if we're operating with the quarterly update.

C

You know um so I'm inclined to keep it low.

C

It's not efficient, but then transparency is never efficient. Concur with that entirely [laughter].

B

hahaha uh Council lombardi do do you have any thoughts on that is said. No, I would agree with.

D

What councilor take this okay, okay, and do you have a preference on with regard to police and.

E

Fire, whether you want them to just go ahead and and they'll manage their own under under.

E

100 and we'll just have them put put in the list, the quarterly list, or what do you want.

E

To do for over a hundred, do you have a and then we kind of danced around that topic.

E

um I don't know how, because I I I'm fine with them, just accepting them themselves.

B

As long as we get a listing and share under 100 yeah, we want to keep it at 100.

D

., why don't we do that? For the next draft and we'll see yeah we'll see what happens when you.

F

Say listing whether quarterly or in a regular time period, um do you mean with names or anonymous a.

F

Bulk, depending upon how not I think that we should be really clear depending upon how the authority.

B

Wants it recognized and um we would always prefer to recognize individuals. I think so that we.

B

Thanking them, but if, if there's a reason why the governing entity doesn't want that in individual.

B

Recognized, I think anonymous is fine and I do think some donors actually prefer to be anonymous.

E

I know I've actually in many cases decided not to give to various things, because I would prefer to.

E

Give anonymously so as not to for a whole bunch of reasons, but there are donors that actually prefer.

E

To just give, and and not have that attachment of their contribution, and it makes me think that.

F

We should put that somewhere yeah make it clear, because what we do currently is public. We report.

F

To it's not that the trustees accept them, but we report it. We got these donations this month and we.

F

Give the names unless it is anonymous. If someone were to leave fifty dollars, cash we'd have no way.

F

But generally they're checks and whether it's in memorial or not, some people may not want to.

F

Be and right now they are going into our official minutes. So that's a thing for us to think about.

F

Whether we want that, I think the quarterly just telling you the amount is no problem.

F

At all, to run a report and say this quarter, the library received 300 in public donations.

F

um I think is is great, but I think it hadn't really occurred to me before that some people.

F

Might say I don't want my name going to city council right. I just want to give you some.

F

Money and that's it yeah, I think it's reasonable. You know and and if we had you know a report.

B

That was, we received x, amount of donations and the majority of that was anonymous, but.

B

um We'd like to recognize these donations from these donors, yeah yeah- and I I guess I would.

D

Really, like the input of the fire commission and the police commission on these, maybe they maybe.

D

They want to be protected by the city council. That's that's, you know, so that's why I'm looking.

E

Forward to getting your input and then I'll reach out and and get their input. Yes, yes, I think we're.

B

Starting here that it's going to them and at for yep a response and then coming back here.

B

um So that is definitely the goal we don't want to do anything that would alter their.

B

Policies and that's why we've looked at their policies as well, um so I think it might be.

E

I'll: rework this section three a little bit based on this conversation and see if I can capture but.

E

A little bit clearer great now we're at four, which is good um general conditions.

B

uh The no advantage is to occur to the donor. I think that that's that's.

B

The critical piece- and that's the one that the police has always been concerned about.

B

um Other than recognition, yes yeah other than recognition and we've I've seen policies which.

B

Is interesting from other cities, I should note that say even recognition that there should be.

B

No expectation even of recognition, but um then then council isn't in a situation that.

B

If you miss somebody by accident that they have the expectation, because it's in the.

B

Policy that they shouldn't have the expectation, but then we can go ahead and still recognize them.

B

But I think it should be clear when you donate to the the city you're, not anticipating recognition.

B

And there's the question on 4-2 yeah.

B

E

Yeah, let me noodle that one, the 4.2 okay, because it might technically benefit the.

B

Employee right, but that's an employee, maybe didn't solicit it right, still might benefit them. Yeah, yeah. So work on that. Okay.

B

I think 4.3 is self-explanatory.

B

um Eligible uses.

B

uh This this just basically says that you know, I think that we can use the donations for any.

B

Programming or services or facilities, or anything that we're we're doing as a city.

B

Just recognizing that, um but you notice it doesn't say, what's nice there is that this is what they're.

B

Used for not for oh we're, going to take the money and give it to somebody else right so.

B

It's clear that it has to be used for the city yeah for the purposes of the city here, yep.

B

And that they must be consistent with our department's mandates.

B

And that's important, especially when you get to the next section on ineligible donors, yep.

E

And I just some uh municipal policies had a section on ineligible donors, some didn't so.

E

I just put that in there for discussion purposes, you know if it complicates things you can always.

E

Take it out, knowing that you might have your own radar when it comes before you.

E

um But I figured you should discuss it because it is in some policies.

E

um And then, like I said, I haven't solicited much opinion. I just did a quick survey of.

E

You know some that I could find out there, um but that may create more.

E

Conversation than is really worth having having, I don't know.

E

um So I just put it out there: it's really important to recognize here that.

B

um I think the discussion around once we get to ineligible donors here is is really around.

B

um Controversial donations so, um for example, the question around arms manufacturers.

B

The school district would probably not want to accept donations from an arms manufacturer, but the.

B

Police department is in a completely different position with accepting that type of donation.

B

So um the question you know becomes, how do you.

B

um How do you kind of make those distinctions right right in this policy.

C

I think that's a council question. That's a policy question.

C

I'm not sure it's I mean yeah using your example. I would think that.

D

It might be a conflict of interest to accept a donation from a arms manufacturer. You know to.

D

I mean whether it's over or not it's clearly, they want you to buy their stuff.

B

Then the question becomes: what, if you, what, if the entity is a local entity.

B

And your police department has a goal of buying things locally to support local business.

B

And that local business creates a good relationship with the police department.

B

The police department still has to go out for bed for anything they do, um but in buying.

B

Certain materials from the local business, the local businesses we're going to throw in.

B

These other things to you, because you're such a great customer.

B

That's a that is a donation. Is it or is that a contract negotiation it can be yeah.

B

So so this is where the fine line is it's like. How do you.

B

How do you make those distinctions? I think that that's really important to think about. um You know.

F

I agree in keeping this at something where the differences among departments issues you know.

F

You know the police department's issues about anonymity or other things would not.

F

Normally I mean I could see, maybe it could someday affect us, but we're more likely to have those.

F

Vendors, who are trying to be really nice to us that we have to watch out for and not a lot of.

F

Arms manufacturers are offering us money, but it happened and then we would look.

F

At our mission and our values and our policies and say it doesn't really fit.

F

So it's interesting but you're, I think that's fascinating, where it's local, as well as.

F

You know your department, your type of department, but also a lot of us- are.

F

Looking at local and sustainable options, so it's tricky yeah. This becomes challenging. I.

D

Think pretty quickly didn't we get a donation from somebody for body cameras at one point.

E

I don't know, while we were talking about the weber, was that money going to party cameras, yeah.

B

And that money does have strings attached around safety. If I'm correct it has to go.

B

To safety apparatus so um but again you know those so that was a decision of the department.

D

Rather than the decision of the donor to four body right right, so so we we do need to be.

B

Mindful that um that we have some entities in our community that are strong businesses, that.

B

Would probably love to support us and some do support us and some do support us and we need.

B

To support activities within the city exactly so, we need to be really mindful of of what kind.

B

Of policy we have there and um if, if there's a conflict of interest and who defines that.

B

Do we leave it to individual departments just at the council create the policy.

E

I think it'd be interesting to get feedback from the departments on this particular.

E

Section because I I do think it does impact different departments.

E

um And, and it would just be good to get more voices.

E

And perspectives- and I I do think procurement is a very special and tender area as christine was.

E

Kind of highlighting- and I know, there's a fair bit of caution within the finance department. You know.

E

When something is out to bid or when it's about to go out for bid kind of closing that door on.

E

Communications, the bid document is out and there it is, and and being very sensitive to to that.

F

So would there be a way for any of those.

F

You know legal, but ineligible donors to donate to the city in general. That would not have an effect.

F

On choices, is there a way, I don't know you have to take out the decision makers from benefiting.

F

In some way, do you know what I mean if the, if you had a tobacco companies that instead.

F

Of donating to the library said, we want to give money to the city of portsmouth.

F

And for a health program yeah for general or yeah somewhere, where it's not going to be, it's.

F

Not going to affect the people who make purchasing decisions, so there's doesn't feel like a conflict.

F

Right right, questions around you know they decide as part of kind of a bigger effort to expend.

B

Funds out of a trust that they created, because of required to yeah that they're required to create.

F

They want to donate for a playground or they want to donate. For you know, various entities then.

C

Well, I or let's say that pepsi or coca-cola wants to donate to the high school, but also sells.

C

Their product and all the vending machines right, you know, and they want to donate, to.

C

The booster club, or they want to donate to the you, know, playgrounds or whatever.

B

I think that that's that's where you have the question so who creates that right.

B

Distinction right- and you know when we get gift certificates for different programs,.

E

To give out as prizes, where do you get those gift certificates from.

E

So you've got those pieces yeah, so it's very interesting, um but I I think it's interesting.

E

I'm kind of made a note under this ineligible donors about managing the conflict because I think.

E

You know someone may be an appropriate donor as long as there isn't a conflict.

E

With that gift exactly, and certainly if you had like you know, we have people who you know.

E

Our lobbyists, you know we wouldn't generally want donations from lobbyists. On the other hand,.

E

If someone who happens to be a registered lobbyist wants to go to a pay, a 20 ticket.

E

To go to a fundraising event for some program, would you really want to say no don't come to.

E

The program, if they're a member of the community- and I think the answer is no.

E

So I kind of like maybe there's a piece there or if it's you know.

E

Right just trying to think because they're part of the community, you know and maybe in their kids.

E

Event right right, that is a bit of a fundraiser for something so, like I said I, this is very early.

E

But I wanted to kind of get your perspective on on your thoughts on this yeah because we don't want.

E

To discourage people from participating in the community, but we want those protections in place.

B

Exactly I can think of all kinds of issues that are a little bit challenging yeah. You know.

E

um A lot and I kind of I'll take kind of what I've heard and get some input from.

E

Other folks and and I like maybe marrying a bit of the conflict piece in here.

E

um You know, but we need to be really clear about what our policy is on this and who makes the.

B

The determination and why and how and that it is their authority to make the determination without.

B

um I guess without um interference and because you don't want to end up in a situation where.

B

An organization says: oh, you just won't take our money, they won't take our money and it publicly is.

B

Yeah right in the city of portsmouth won't, do you know when it's really clear in our donation policy.

B

What is eligible and what isn't so? I think there are some distinctions that.

B

Can be clear, I think others we need to be very structured in the way we handle it.

B

um The authority to accept and spend a cash donation.

A

E

And we already have that authority, I just it was in the draft policy. I was working.

E

From so I just kind of left it there. I think it's important, though, that it.

B

Doesn't need to come back to the council if the if the city manager then wants to spend.

B

The funds or the department had one suspended the fund, you don't want it to come back again.

B

Which is what we have to do with major expenditures of the city, if we're bonding.

B

Anything so we don't want any misperception about how many times it comes before the council.

B

Costs associated.

B

This is where council tabor, you have a question right, but let's back up to seven again, okay,.

C

um Should we have any language that says.

C

That something to the effect of the department's camp.

C

um Sit on the money, you know if it's been given for a purpose.

C

That it be spent expeditiously, I'm thinking of a donor who you know says uh I want to give this to.

C

The african bearing ground.

C

And the money sits, sits in the trust, account and doesn't ever get used. You know.

C

Or there's just not implementation, do we want any kind of language about.

C

There should be some follow through well right once it goes into a trust, the trust governs and.

E

That's it, um but I was trying to think of a similar example where we take stuff. That's.

E

Not in a trust, um I have some examples, so some of our donations that were given not only way.

F

Before my time, but way before my birth have a rule in them that only the interest can be used.

F

In the principle can never be touched, um we also have things like currently some matching funds.

F

That were given to us for the courtyard, so they will sit there until the money is appropriate.

F

Appropriated given to us to spend through cip or the budget or in what other ways.

F

Trying to think of others, but that I understand what you're saying that it shouldn't there could.

F

Be- and I don't know if any of our departments have things like long-term plan of their own.

F

Is the term I want to donate to the you know big fund, like a capital campaign exactly so.

F

There could be governed by the certain principles of the donation, but I know.

F

What you mean that we're not just piling up money, because someone gave it to us, but it's actually.

F

Spent appropriately yeah, I mean you there's a lot of examples where we as a city have had.

C

Fundraising, with a in conjunction with a private entity like the african berry and ground sip, you.

C

Know to save the indoor pool there were a lot of donations to rehabilitate the pool prescott park.

C

You know we may have to have fundraising for that: a combination of private money and public money.

C

um And this is hypothetical, but you know let's say that people gave to renovate the.

C

Pool and nothing happened for five years- yeah right or people gave to.

C

Prescott park and nothing happened for five years. How do we deal with that? Do we require some.

C

Explanation back to the donors, um or do we just count on the fact that it it's a public process.

C

And everybody's aware of what's going on, so I think there's two things: first, if it's in.

E

The trust, once you put it into a trust instrument that is going to govern right period by and large.

E

um And then you have frankly good old-fashioned pick up the phone.

E

You know if the donation say to the cemetery committee is languishing because of x.

E

um I think it's a call to the city manager that says: hey. You know made this donation this.

E

Hasn't happened yet. Could you follow up and see when it might be expended? I think it's actually.

E

um I think if you try and put strictures on it, yeah you're gonna find it. Those strictures are.

E

Going to be too narrow for the broad types of way that money and services and gifts come in to the.

E

City because it's so diverse that it'd be hard to come up with one rule, but I think these at least.

E

In my years when people are not happy, they call, or they show up and express you know their concerns.

E

Would that be yeah um and then, if something's been languishing, it can move off the plate.

B

Yeah, I think I think there there is an important distinction, though around donations being given.

B

That are accepted by the council, for example, to go into a program that you're expecting to have.

B

Developed within the next year or two years or to an item. But then um there isn't a lot of appetite.

B

On the part of say, another council or even city staff, to move forward with a certain project and.

B

It could sit for 15. 20 years because, because those that accepted it had a different view.

B

Than the people currently governing and that isn't a priority project anymore, so I think there is a.

B

Concern around making sure that, when things are done, when money is donated, specifically that it.

B

Is something that the city will move forward with right and then, after a certain period of years,.

B

That there should be check in um to see if, if the donor wants the money's still sitting there or not,.

D

um Right yeah, I think of like we're planting 400 trees and that's going to increase the maintenance.

D

Of those trees significantly, so I don't know I'm, I know, there's been donations to the trees, but.

D

Can some of that donation go to the maintenance? Ongoing maintenance? I don't know is that a and.

D

That's that's a good question. I don't you know. We have all the history on that one. I know about.

D

It, but I don't know about the history of what the expectations are. I mean everyone's really.

D

Excited about yeah, the greening yeah, and uh but we don't want to see the browning. You know.

C

I mean we had the.

C

If I'm not mistaken, the farm to table position in the schools was privately funded for a.

C

Couple of years and then became public and then didn't make it through one of the budget rounds.

C

But you know we're in india or when people want to do impact giving in philanthropy and so that.

C

Creates some if they want to do that in conjunction with the city, you know how do.

C

You make sure that their impact that they sought actually happens, so that can be done at the time.

E

That you accept the funds in the sense that, if, if it's a substantial enough donation, because.

E

You know think of mine. Most of our donations are less than 250 bucks when you think about it,.

E

um So you really don't want to be micromanaging the the small ones, but.

E

If you've got someone who's going to say, oh I'm going to give ten thousand dollars, it'll be for.

E

X purpose, then, there certainly might be some expectation of.

E

When that would be expended, I know it took us a long time. Thinking of african paragraph.

E

It took us a long time to raise the money needed to actually make that memorial park.

E

um So you know it's kind of hard to sometimes figure out how long something is going to take.

E

But you're right, sometimes the politics change and so the energy changes, and I think if it's.

E

A substantial enough donation that someone the donor, wants to have some more assurity than you.

E

Either, do it as a trust or you do it with specific limitations? When you asked when the city accepts.

E

That to say I'd like to see that it's expended within two years or three years or some period of.

E

Time but I think that only becomes an issue when you got when you have larger donations, sure yeah.

D

Does the city get donations from.

D

um Trusts of you know: when people die, I mean people leave. I know the library does. Yes, I.

D

Mean but other the city in general city in general, not often that I'm aware of.

C

Geraldine, whether or not was standing right, that would be an exception yeah, but it tends to be more.

E

Specific like it to a fire or police department or a library, yeah yeah. Okay. um So do we think that.

B

We need to change anything here um around. That was an authority except I was seven yeah, seven.

B

um And purposes intended we could, you could put a little phrase within a reasonable.

B

Time frame or, and just let reasonable, be right right, appropriate yeah.

B

D

A time frame you know, um because I think, of what councilor tamers.

D

Discussed it might be a different council, and that has no priority right. um Stricky.

B

I mean you could have a phrase within an appropriate time frame or the donor.

B

Should be contacted regarding advised it might be hard again if it's a big donation, then it's.

E

Not that hard to track, if it's that, if people start having expectations over the smaller.

E

Donations, I think that would be difficult to say. Oh did we did we spend all twenty dollars on yeah.

B

I'm thinking donations in the like somebody made a ten thousand dollar donation right and then.

B

Politics change projects no longer intriguing to the next um council priorities change, so it.

B

Doesn't move forward and the money just sits there? That's, I think, that's more of a challenge. I think.

B

um And and for the person who makes that honestly there's a very big difference between people who.

B

Make ten thousand twenty thousand dollar donations some people who make 500 000 donations, because the.

B

People who usually make those smaller the ten thousand twenty thousand, it's a large donation.

B

But that that probably is a lot bigger donation to them than somebody who can make them a silly.

B

Big donation, so it I'm thinking that that's a priority donation um for a check back. I think.

E

That's one you would negotiate. Yes, yes, exactly. We've certainly had large donations not often.

E

But certainly for the build, a library for the building. And that was fully negotiated and.

E

I what I what I was all all flag when I send this out and around we'd like comments on on.

E

Time frame for spending any issues, any concerns and then I'll report that back how's that.

C

Three, that would be great yeah yeah. My question was.

C

Staff has the authority to expend donations for the purposes intended. What, if they don't.

A

It's possible, if, if that's an eventuality, how do we deal with it? Yeah.

E

um There are certain when you take something from, I guess it depends on how it comes in.

E

Whether it did come in for a special purpose, um there are laws that are applicable when.

E

You know, for example, if we're getting rid of a bill, you know selling a building and it has a.

E

Special restriction on it because we received it with certain restrictions, there's a whole.

E

Process that has to happen because it has that special condition or restriction on it, and I'm.

E

As far as I'm aware, you know those would be applicable to those circumstances if.

E

You didn't spend it you've got a you know. Perhaps do process with a division of charitable trust to.

E

Relieve yourself of that obligation to then spend the money for some other purpose right right. So.

E

That's what I would see happening, I don't see it happening when you get small stuff or a lot of.

E

Times we just accept, you know we really don't when you think of what's comfortable for the.

E

City council- it's not much or it tends to be very much for a specific purpose like the cemetery or.

E

um Yeah, so I don't know, let me noodle that over yeah, but I think we're only.

C

Talking about the major yeah yeah sons of money yeah, but there are people who want.

C

To have an impact on the city in a positive way yep, and we have all the provisions in here.

C

That, if their view of what's positive and the councils differ, we can politely say no but yeah.

B

Okay, then, um costs associated with post proposed donation.

B

E

And I just grabbed this language from some other municipalities, you know form. So if we don't like.

E

It we're not stuck with it, I just did it so well, let's put this in here for discussion purposes,.

C

We've actually had some language like this around our public art. Yes, exactly, I don't.

C

Recall it was as high as 20. Actually no it's not 10 10 10 of the value of.

G

The donation is what it is for: public art, yep so, um and a thousand dollar.

B

Maintenance is is really high, so this would be a pretty big donation yep if we had a thousand.

B

Dollars in maintenance now I can see how maybe 400 trees might require, so I can.

B

See what godzilla lombardi was saying: it's a lot of trees in the water. It's a lot of trees.

A

um But uh um but you know the question then becomes uh you know? I guess you know what are.

B

We talking about that really requires a thousand dollars in annual maintenance. You know you.

B

Might have something that requires that much in maintenance, but it wouldn't annualized. It wouldn't.

B

Be five thousand dollars right, so your typical benches and other individual small structures.

E

Would probably not have a thousand dollars an annual, um but if somebody wanted to donate a.

B

An antique home to the city right there could be a lot of maintenance, yeah.

F

But it could also bring in revenue in some way that might offset that. Yes, it costs exactly.

B

So then, you'd have to to weigh that. I saw this happen actually with a non-profit organization.

G

Who received they received a donation of a house? um There was in trust and had all kinds of.

B

Stipulations around historic preservation attached to it and they couldn't afford to restore it.

B

Took um five years to go through the process of of um setting up all the provisions to sell it.

B

Instead of me, instead of trying to maintain it themselves, but there were all kinds of legal.

B

Hoops to jump through because the donation was made to them and they didn't have.

B

And it came without funds for maintenance, so.

B

So that's something to be really mindful of here: yep, it's protection, and it says that this, the city.

B

um It can be waived, the requirements can be waived, yep.

B

So so we're saying that the um the gsa should supply the ongoing maintenance.

G

Sorry [laughter].

B

um Yeah this is, um I think, it's reasonable. It's it's fairly reasonable um because it leaves it to.

B

To the council and the city to decide what that ongoing maintenance looks like as far.

B

As what what they would accept and that's all a negotiation right with the donor, I would think yep.

E

And it would depend on other factors, as christine said, you know, is there some longer term revenue.

E

Generating than balances it out or something yeah very reasonable um procedure, approvals in general.

A

B

Again that you know you don't want anyone donating if they're they're trying to get approvals.

B

Procurement donations or procurement decisions. Sorry.

B

Any questions about that.

D

Again, I wonder about contract negotiations for purchases and.

D

This is separate from that.

D

I mean you know in a contract negotiation you're getting the con, you negotiate a lower price.

D

But remember this is a city council policy for what you accept yeah, that's true,.

E

And you guys are not involved in contract negotiations that goes back to the then there's.

E

The separate one that I'm governed by including, in addition, I have all my legal ethics, which are.

E

Its own set of special love.

B

And or a procurement, yep um donations of personal or.

B

Real property- and this comes back to that question of how donating a house.

B

Because we all knew ideas about what I could do with my house, [laughter].

E

You know- and I I think, the school wrestles or or deals with, for example, donations of.

E

Computer equipment- and maybe you have that too- and you really want that to be subject.

E

To the department head, because it may be that whatever's proposed to be donated.

E

Is not compatible with what we have or create security risks, or you know it's very in you know.

E

Up to the department to really assess, is it really going to be a value to our work? We.

D

Always want to donate their old computers. This is where the books discussion also comes in. So.

F

We're glad you asked so libraries in general. I think people are accustomed to donating to.

F

Libraries, because of book sales- and we do not have a book sale. um So we also we've also looked.

F

At a couple things to think about, we have several used bookstores and we don't want to be competing.

F

With our local businesses, so that was among our decision making steps. We do now, however, have the.

F

Little free libraries, and so we balance how much time and effort it would take for our staff to.

F

Go through these books because some people and some people, unfortunately just put them in our.

F

Drop which is not helpful, people bring us their precious books from their attic or their basement.

F

Which may or may not be in any usable condition, but many people do bring in a few current new.

F

Fiction novels, they just finished the latest lead child and we then look at our collection and see.

F

Are we missing it or is our copy older, or might we put it in the little free libraries and use it.

F

Within the community and that's kind of the our donation policy says, if you give give it to us.

F

It belongs to us, we can recycle it, we can, you know we could we could. We could sell it if we.

F

Were doing so, we can use it in our little free libraries in our collection and you don't get.

F

To decide- and we don't call you back and say, come get your books, you if you give it to us because.

F

Of the cost and effort of staff- and we cut it off entirely during covid, just because we just.

F

Did not have the bandwidth to deal with donations. I will say that the two areas that get the best.

F

Acceptance rate are local history, so if it belongs in our special collections- or it has some local.

F

The reason the writer or the content is about portsmouth or the seacoast. That's more likely.

F

And again, if it's like modern fiction that we think is going to be used either in our.

F

Collection or in the little free libraries that's great 30 year old textbooks national.

F

Geographics old encyclopedias are the ones that libraries around the country just kind of go.

F

Have to do with it either. So I understand that neither do I happy to give them to somebody who.

B

Wants them, it is a problem yeah and- and I think this is what christine just explained.

E

In terms of how the library has thoughtfully kind of looked at what makes sense from their.

E

Management perspective and the trustees kind of weighing in as they develop the policy about. Oh.

E

We have local bookstores that do x and I think that's the advantage for this level of detail.

E

Being done kind of within the specialty area that we're talking about? Because you know I.

E

Would not have you know, thought right off the top of my head about oh yeah, the local.

E

Bookstores that you might not want to compete with, and and certainly it's the kind of thing.

E

That being immersed in that and having to confront that, I think, shows the value of.

E

You know that kind of input and and work done at their level specific to their department, so.

F

I should mention to everyone here, but everyone else involved in this.

F

Also that our legal department does review all our policies.

F

So, within the context of your other policies, they may have information that I'm not aware of, but.

F

They they look at that before it's approved by our board, so that we're not in conflict with anything.

B

I think on this matter too, you want to be mindful that in portsmouth we have some people that have.

B

Amazing collections of portsmouth artifacts that if, if they do offer them to the city, we want to be.

B

Able to accept certain things or to direct to the appropriate local entity where that.

B

Donation should go. Do you want to talk about that christine yeah? We do have, I mean I'll, say.

F

From the library's perspective, we have a space, a serious space issue, so there are collections.

F

That you know that we see, and we think this would be great. It has local local connections, but we.

F

Have no place to put it I'm much less ability to maintain it. That's an issue with personal.

F

Collections and with art in particular, but yeah, yeah and we're- I mean we're just discussing that.

D

We had our first meeting of the archive committee and um you know obviously we're talking about.

D

Print primarily paper and not artifacts, that's a whole another game and that's.

D

There's people with a lot of that too. So uh maybe that's the next council's job, but.

F

Committee includes people that do focus on that, like strawberry bank right, not the city, we're not.

F

Talking about that in the city, but right yeah, even the even the paper is hard, even though oh.

D

It's just a lot: yeah yeah, no more space. It's a lot! It's a lot! That's so so it's important.

B

To have this in here, so we have this discretion around donations. That's a great a property.

B

I'm so glad that the archive committee has started its work by the way as a side note.

B

um Managing and reporting donations. This is this is an important piece around reporting.

C

Yeah, that's good.

B

And I think that we we leave the requirements around reporting.

B

To individual collected entities as well, the council then, can have its own kind of practice.

B

Around this, because that might change to council to council, so this council might.

B

Say let's just report them out quarterly yep and you might have another council that says.

B

This is easier just to put it in every packet, but this is a council policy correct, so I mean I think.

D

The council is not going to solicit so right. Well that that's iffy, so we can say the council um is.

B

Not going to solicit, but the council might solicit donations for things like escape report, so we.

B

Frequently mention in council meetings that we're still taking donations for the skateboard park.

B

um If we were to take donations for our prescott park master plan again, the council would be.

B

Soliciting donations, the council just received a large donation from the rotary club for a new.

B

Ada accessible playground, so that's once again another so we have to be thinking about. You know.

B

um The council will do some solicitation of donations.

B

From the community, um in response who requests and complaints and questions.

D

And complaints karen yeah, yes, I mean, I would think that's more of a staff role there. It is.

B

It is a staff role, but I think that this, the council policy defines the staff's actions.

B

B

Acknowledge transforms and receipts.

B

B

And I have a question actually that the legal department will know.

B

um Donations of 100 or more triggers an irs uh acknowledgment if you're deducting something.

B

For your for taxes on an annual basis, two donations are donations to the city, though.

B

Tax deductible as they are to nonprofits, so we are not a 501 3c so that standard letter.

E

That you will see when you donate to um any one of our many wonderful charitable organizations.

E

um We don't that's, not our our realm. um On the other hand, we have a.

E

With with carefully worded language that says, we are not your tax accountant. However, we are a.

E

I forget the exact language. We have a form letter upstairs, but you know we basically say we're not a.

E

501 3c, but we are a charitable organization kind of thing, not organized, but we're a municipality.

E

And tax-exempt, or something like that, there is a standard letter that we have put together.

E

um For those purposes, we generally don't.

E

Give them that tax piece unless asked for simply because we just hadn't gotten in the.

E

Practice and most donations are under 100., um but I know um when we were taking them. I think.

E

For the african bearing ground- and maybe when we take, you know when we're doing a.

E

Lot of fundraising and getting the bigger donations, we did come up with a a letter.

E

That acknowledge that the gift was to the city of portsmouth. I like this idea of formal recognition.

B

And acceptance of anything of a hundred dollars or more because that is standard practice across yeah.

B

In the donor world yep and I and we're getting as far as I can hear through the grapevine.

E

That's what would be good to get input from the other departments, because I've heard of more of.

E

Those requests coming in and that you know then they'll call up to legal. What can we write and so.

E

I thought well, let's put something in here and I'll I'll see what we get for communication back.

E

But we're careful to say we're not providing legal advice or tax advice, but we are blah.

E

Blah blah blah there's, like I said some stock little paragraph we've used before to acknowledge.

E

The gift very good: okay, that's good um accounts.

B

And this is in the handling, essentially the handling of donations, yeah and I know judy and.

E

Andrew have all their processes so we'll see if they have any feedback on this language. But I know.

E

They're, pretty cognizant of what's got strings attached right, exactly yeah. I think it's important.

B

That that we highlight that donations without specifications are considered general revenue, yep.

C

C

Yeah otherwise we'll be getting into creation of tons of accounts right right. We don't want.

B

To we don't want to inadvertently create a need to set up several more trusts right.

B

Okay and that's it nope um any general questions that we want to ask before we flew forward.

C

What about instances? This is a hypothetical where we have a donor. That's a shell organization.

C

And we we don't know who the principles are. Do we need any kind of.

C

Language that we need to know who the donors are.

C

That they're, not um hidden behind any kind of shell organization,.

E

I guess that's really up to you. If you want that level of inquiry, I mean, if you look back.

E

That would kind of go under the ineligible donors. I mean if you're concerned, I think the best we.

E

Can do is make a good faith effort to understand who the donor is so kind of with that bar that we.

E

Don't have to do an exhaustive search, you know of someone's history to see if they're related.

E

To you know a crime organization, we can right, oh right, um yeah. On the other hand, it's certainly.

E

Not unreasonable, from my point of view to look beyond.

E

The face um of the organization if there are concerns that it might not.

E

Be um I'm just thinking, you know, ineligible donor. If we got a city at the city council level, we get.

C

Five thousand dollars nation donation from the committee to improve portsmouth, and we.

C

Don't know who it is, or the committee for this or the committee for that.

C

D

What does that mean? What is that yeah, our job is to know you know to to our job, is to.

C

Look at these donations and make sure that we want to accept them. We understand what.

C

If we want to be sure there are no conflicts or no.

C

Areas of undue influence right.

F

Or get anonymous is there I don't remember seeing something here. If, if you did, what would be, I mean typical? No, it's.

F

From one of those ineligible entities, what would happen right right? um I think on my list here is.

E

To really spell out more what we would do with anonymous donations, I think for the small ones.

E

I'm not worried about it, but it's the it's the big ones. If it's five or ten thousand dollars.

E

What to do with that anonymous donation? My initial thought is: if there are no strings attached to it,.

E

I'm less concerned I'll say I have no concern, but I am less concerned if there are no strings.

E

But the minute there's a string attached then, from my point of view that gets into can we do.

E

A conflict analysis is there a reason why this donation is coming in, um but um that's my my.

E

Level of inquiry goes up if there's some string or condition or a specific program like that's, that's.

E

What would be triggering triggering it um the, but the city council, you know, could always say: look.

E

We're not comfortable with this city manager. Could you go back and have a conversation? Could you vet.

E

Right this donation and- and you know, then provide and, if need be, in a non-public session,.

E

A confidential report back if the donor really wanted to be anonymous because they give maybe.

E

They won the lottery right and they are looking to distribute ten thousand dollars to you know.

E

Every city in new hampshire right because they love new hampshire and it's coming through some.

E

Trust instrument and they want to be anonymous. Would we want that money, and the answer is yes,.

E

um But they may not want to acknowledgment because they don't want anyone to know they.

E

Won the you know mega millions, and they just want to give gifts to local town, to municipalities, for.

E

Their purposes or for recreational programs yeah right, so I think that's where the city.

E

Council, could you know, ask the city manager, could you see if you could get enough information to.

E

Inform the city council in a way that would provide assurance, is that there's.

E

No obvious or apparent conflict or concern that the you know money is laundered from.

E

Some organization- that's right, I was thinking like a russian oligarchy.

B

Gotta be careful yeah so well, I think we're all.

C

Is a city that people do get.

C

And we just want, I mean for me. I just want to make sure that as a counselor, I'm approving something.

C

That truly helps the city with no strings attached um and is ethical and above board and transparent.

C

We got policies in place to make sure to ask for. Is it small at this stage? Do you is it okay,.

B

For us to ask this deputy city manager or wcd attorney to move forward, making a few changes.

B

And checking in with departments at the same time before bringing it back to us. Please do.

B

And everyone's comfortable with that, yes, okay, okay, all right! So then we will come back to.

B

This it won't be at our next meeting. It'll be the following meeting: is the.

B

Next next meeting we're hoping to have a parks, discussion so march. That would be, I think, it's.

B

I don't know the exact date hold on the top of my head hold up.

B

um I'm gonna stop sharing this um 17th. I believe.

B

Yes, I believe it's actually. Oh, we have on february, 27th february, isn't that the parks.

D

One, the parts one is february: the 13th. um We don't have okay february 27th, a second.

B

Meeting set up for february, I believe there was a concern around. There are several extra council.

B

Sessions and then our next meeting from what I can tell oh, I actually don't have it in my calendar.

B

It's unfortunate yeah when it's connected what um thanks and give them. I have it for.

B

um February 13th and I don't know we might have won the 20, do we have one the 27th.

B

I thought we did, we might have one the 27th of february, if that's the case, that's when it would.

B

Come back, I will make sure I get out of calendar to everyone yeah. I thought we had all the dates.

B

At the end of the december meeting, yes, we did and it kind of disappointed. I don't have them. I don't.

B

Have them all in my calendar, I will get out a list to everyone so that everybody is aware of.

B

The meetings again- and um I wanted to take just a moment to say thank you so much for coming in.

B

Again and spending time with us and answering some of our questions, it's nice that even if.

B

The city council hasn't done this yet that the departments in the city have have taken the lead.

B

um And, and in that sense we really appreciate the advice. Well, thank you for listening to.

F

Us it's nice to know what you're doing too yeah. We don't always know [laughter].

B

You try, we try. Yes, so um I'm gonna go back to the agenda um so that everybody can see where.

B

We are again. The next item is upcoming park season. Discussion is the 13th. uh It is february 27th that.

B

I have us coming back for donations policy again, so those are the upcoming committee topics.

B

And under new business we will get to hear from counselor tabor. On this um we had a a question.

B

At the last council session around fee study committee, and should we add a member to the fee.

B

Study committee, because we have two which makes voting difficult if they don't agree on an item.

B

um And I wanted to get the thoughts of this group if we want to take that up. If we want to take up.

B

Changes to that or not so um start with counselor tabor, since he sits on the fee study committee.

C

Well, you know it was interesting. The mayor.

C

Clearly saw the problem and asked the governance look at this, because we were trying to decide.

C

The two of us as counselors counselor denton and I had different views on the level of.

C

Fees for outdoor dining we weren't off by much but with two people. If one.

C

Proposes emotion and the other doesn't second, even for discussion. It's dead.

C

So um it's kind of like paddling, a robot with one or you just go around in a circle and.

C

um I did think about this a little because I saw it on the agenda.

C

I think it's a discussion worth having um the purpose of the fee committee is to have.

C

Each year the city has more than 150 different fees.

C

um And so the fee committee treats these kind of as an omnibus part of the budget and.

C

Our our real reason for being is: are these fees reasonable.

C

Do they cover expenses incurred and no more or are they higher than that and that's something.

C

You know a fee should I think, by policy correct me. If I'm wrong susanna, I don't think we can charge.

C

More than offsetting the costs correct, um so that's the reason for the review of all the fees.

C

And it's a good. It generally meets once or twice a year um to do that. But we were referred to.

C

The product, the question of outdoor dining and found that, as a deliberative body of two people,.

C

It's hard to deliberate, so I'll, lay that at everybody's feet and say that that's the problem.

C

If we had, three people totally could be seconded and voted more easily. You'd always have you know.

C

And obviously emotion will not carry if in a committee of two if one disagrees so.

C

Committee of three could have two out of three and a motion would carry.

C

Or one out of three in a motion would fail, but you got a better shot at getting something done.

G

And I'm reasonably sure, because I think I would discuss this- that I don't think there's actually.

E

An ordinance that formally creates the fee committee. I think this is something that has that.

E

Evolved over time, so I was just double checking. um That's a good point, so I think that could be.

E

Something that could be worked on, okay, um that it may be a slightly different effort, which is to.

E

Create um more formally, the committee structure, in which case one could have three not two.

E

um But I have a feeling we looked at this and said: oh.

E

How did this committee actually arise? We've had it for a long time, but I don't think it is actually.

E

Unless it was maybe adopted by a policy of some prior council, but I'm not sure in chapter one.

E

That there is actually yeah. I don't see anything here. Yeah I have I mean it was chart met in 2018.

C

I think it was.

C

It's been in one of the mayor's appointments for the last.

C

Three or four terms: oh yeah, it's been around foreign. That is one of the very few.

B

um Committees in reviewing when we did our board's commission committee review, in fact, it is one of.

B

Only wow one two now that it's not clear how it was established.

B

By ordinance or policy, it was probably just a vote of the council at some point along the.

B

Line to establish that, in the same way that the governance committee was established by just a.

B

Record like a a request and a vote of the council, so um so it would probably be council established.

B

The way that it's it's set up, if we want to set up a more permanent um method for it, we can. um We.

B

Can move forward with with setting up an ordinance for a fee study committee? You know we have a few.

B

um I think that we have several entities- and I can add this to the list around questions around.

B

Should they just be council established or mayoral, or should they actually be ordinance related.

B

I think the the ones that come up are the long-standing blue ribbon committees like.

B

Sustainability, it's been around for a very, very long time what happens with the energy advisory.

B

Committee, does it does it change into you know a and another committee that monitors you know.

B

And becomes more permanent as we move towards community power, it doesn't broaden its scope.

B

Exactly so so we'll have to be thinking about some of those mid-year and how we.

B

How we navigate that and what recommendations we make for making committees more permanent.

E

If, if you'd like, now that I was gonna mourn, my forefront since I was concentrated on donations,.

E

Maybe for the next meeting you know I can um solicit susan and bob's input on this and the.

E

City managers, in terms of whether it make whether there's any recommendation, whether.

E

To make it a more permanent committee or whether to keep it more informal- and you know it's just.

E

A policy of the city council that there is this fee committee or it's simply the mayor, appoints.

E

You know one or more members to work with city staff on development of the fees, so I could bring.

E

Back some options for the next meeting, um I think the impetus I think came from the city manager.

C

In the past saying we can look at all these fees fees, but we probably should have some.

C

City council participation, yeah. I think that was the impetus and I thought it was originally just.

E

One counselor and maybe it's been broadened over time. I think it was just yeah council dwyer, so.

B

But it's been around for a very long time, yeah. So what this is another example. We have several.

B

Of these that are sitting that have been around for a long time and in some ways they don't have.

B

Very good guidelines too and how they operate. I think fee study, it's pretty clear. What is done.

B

um But some others don't have really clear guidelines because there isn't an ordinance.

B

Governing practice or appointments or how long people serve or any of those things. So so this.

B

Is something that we should be if, if it's okay with everyone here I'll add it to our list of.

B

Committees to review- and maybe we start with it, because it's probably the easiest one to tackle.

B

Okay, yeah, I mean what I found here is that contact andrew. You know.

C

It's there, but it's it's not there right, yeah, okay, all right! Let's get something yep! um I.

B

Now will open it up to public comment. Do we have anyone on nope and it doesn't appear that we have.

D

Anyone here this is the first governance committee that we have in that public. You haven't had public.

B

Comment: it's interesting, okay! Well, that said, I will close public comment. um If there's nothing.

B

Else um I'll ask for a motion to return so moved. Second, all in favor all right hi. We are adjourned.