City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 12 Dec 2022

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From YouTube: 12.12.2022 Governance Committee

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12.12.2022 Governance Committee

A

I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting of the governance committee for december to order.

A

uh Thank you all for joining us on this snowy morning.

A

um It's finally winter, it is finally winter, um and I should note that today's meeting is really about.

A

um Kind of doing a cleanup and an understanding of where we stand for our work, starting in january.

A

So there isn't actually a lot of substantive work today, it's more just.

A

Taking uh taking a view of what, where we are so I'll, do the roll call first.

A

um Counselor tabor here councilor lombardi here and I'm counselor cook and I'm here I.

A

Should note that deputy city manager and deputy city attorney suzanne woodland is here as well.

B

We need to review and approve three sets of minutes this morning.

B

um Hopefully, everyone received those and is prepared to look at them here. I'm going to go.

A

To first the august 29th minutes, I would move. We approve the august 29th minutes.

C

A second uh is there any discussion all in favor, aye aye, okay. Next, we will look at the september.

B

28Th minutes of the committee, can I get a motion to approve those so move. Second, any discussion.

B

All in favor aye and lastly, I'm going to go to uh the october 31st minutes of the meeting.

A

Can I get a motion to approve this second, any discussion.

C

um Just thanks to the deputy city manager for putting in the time over the weekend to get those.

C

Yeah, it's great. I really truly appreciate that it's a year and effort. I do appreciate that as.

A

Well, yeah, um I would note that I would have one change to these minutes um under which one now.

A

Again uh october 31st um old business, section four subsection b um committees and ordinance.

B

Review uh at the very bottom it says, counselor cook would like input from former mayors in the.

A

New hampshire, municipal association, along with the legal department, I believe that request actually.

A

Came from councilor tabor correct, so I just hold on we're going to make sure that the admissions.

B

It's the last paragraph or b.

A

I was tasked with doing that. I have a council table requests. I think I offered to help.

C

Recruit them.

D

I've made the note and I will uh did you vote on your- can we amend the motion to adopt the minutes.

B

As as old, okay so moved right, all in favor all right, aye, okay, the last set of minutes is adopted.

B

um So, let's go back to the agenda for the meeting um old under old business. um We've.

B

Been talking about a few different items uh for a little while now, the first is parks and green.

B

Spaces and at the last meeting we had our uh eric ebby here discussing that with us as well.

B

I I wanted to spend just a few minutes asking the committee where we want to go from here at.

A

This point we have not had a committee meeting called between. I know. Initially, we had talked.

B

About calling a meeting between rex and the conservation commission and potentially the.

E

Public works, yeah, yeah, exactly public works, trees and greenery to discuss this and eric.

B

Abby suggested also bringing in possibly parking traffic and safety to discuss bike paths and.

A

Spaces around that, um where would the committee like to go? I think with this next, because I.

B

Think I would like to go ahead and send out a letter to to, if possible, to all the concerned.

B

Individuals to see if we can start planning for something at the beginning of the year.

C

um Chair, I uh I took a look at an interesting.

C

Article from new hampshire, municipal association, always a good source for best practices, called.

C

The power of parks and recreation in building strong, new hampshire communities.

C

C

I also looked at a lot of other cities and towns around the state.

C

The gist of of the article is look at the benefits that you want to achieve for your community.

C

Problems that open space and parks and activities at parks and recreation can solve. For example,.

C

Child abuse, obesity um and rec programs, older residents, who want to stay active.

C

You know open space as a break from you know: a more urban environment so.

C

uh I thought that was valuable. You know, define what you want your parks and recreation to do.

C

First and then look at your inventory and how's it delivering on that. um Second, I looked at other.

C

Towns and cities, and nearly all of them big to little group recreation and parks together.

C

And not only have parks, maintenance under parks and recreation, but that even includes cemeteries.

C

In a lot of cities and towns on the cemetery committee is part of parks and recreation.

C

Wow, I'm not saying that's right for us. We've got a great cemetery committee.

C

um But we have a very active recreation board that goes at its task, with a lot of focus.

C

It's worth asking the question, I think what if we may transform that into parkinson recreation.

C

So that the same people who are working on our youth sports programs, our senior programs.

C

You know our pickleball or everything else could also look at active uses of the park.

C

Some communities have uh senior walking groups.

C

um Some communities have four kids and obesity, something called.

C

Oh catch comprehensive approach to childhood health.

C

Where it's nutrition as well as activity, and they have kids out in the parks doing.

C

Things out in the bike path, cycling things like that, so um I was interested in that.

C

And I thought if we do get the stakeholders together, those are some ideas that we could.

C

Frame the discussion, you know if we had a framing question like.

C

What are the best active uses for our park and recreation facilities.

C

To meet the needs of our community and then start with the needs, I'm thinking on talking at the same.

C

Time, which is always dangerous, but those were some thoughts that occurred to me um and.

C

That I was also interested that dover, one of the one of the problems we were.

C

Hoping to address not a problem, but an opportunity is searching around our.

C

City limits for additional green space and open space, and I was interested that.

C

Dover had a subcommittee of their conservation commission called the open land committee and.

C

Their role is solely to pursue additional open space, takes it for granted that that's a benefit.

C

It includes a lot of citizens from different parts of the city.

C

um And includes people who understand conservation include includes people who you know maybe can.

C

Marshal philanthropic resources, um so I was interested and intrigue with that. You know and.

C

Does it make sense to expand recreation to parks and recreation? Does it make sense to put the.

C

The eyes and ears scouting for additional open space under conservation commission. I don't know.

C

Those are some interesting examples from around the state, and that might be the discussion. Some.

C

Of the discussion points, if we got all the stakeholders together, that's a long-winded.

C

Answer to your question, but no I appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I.

B

That's I think this is where we are at this stage is we need to kind of.

B

Share what our thinking is having spoken with several individuals and it's helpful.

B

Because I think it's going to help us solidify, where we're, where we're ultimately going.

E

uh Yeah and two I I have I've spoken with a number.

E

Of people, individuals who are interested in this subject and.

E

um One of them was eric speer. Of course, you know that he's interested in this, but.

E

He um one of my concerns is that.

E

The recreation board is very focused on active recreation and I think that.

E

To also get them involved in passive recreation, um I don't know I you'd have to.

E

Have to see how that goes, I think um they're not incompatible. I don't. I don't think, but you.

E

Know, there's been a huge push to get athletic fields, skateboard parks stuff, like that. That's.

E

That's kind of been that board's focus. um Maybe it needs some other input to to develop.

E

The ideas of passive reputation in spaces so.

B

Thank you, I think that's an insight that I I also.

B

I agree with that insight. I think that we have to be thinking about kind of the big picture of.

B

What does the structure look like if it's an expansion of a wreck to make it parks and rec, is.

B

It an expansion, is it adding additional members to focus specifically on parks, and um so is it.

B

A shift in mission, which would be ordinance driven if we change parking parks and recs.

B

um And but I also think a critical part of that is having a discussion um with uh other groups.

B

Like conservation, commission and treason, public grainery and potentially somebody representing.

B

Bike, ped paths, and so we can have have their input and and then it's easier to shape. What.

B

That looks like in the end, because I think it it also having them have that discussion will.

B

Help create buy-in across committees as well. I think it's really important. We don't want to.

B

Look like as a governance committee that we're stepping in and saying this is what we think.

B

You should be doing and no one's doing it. What we're saying is, is ah we've identified a gap in.

B

Services and we want to find a way to address it, and we want input from everyone. We want everyone.

B

To decide, help us and help them decide where we're going next, and then we will help them.

B

Do whatever we need to do if it's ordinance change, if it's you know, it could be changing uh wreck to.

B

Parks and rec, but it also could be something even simpler. It could even be setting up a an.

B

Advisory group of individuals from each of the committees that sits down and meets periodically.

B

That discusses this, so so I think that you know, and they'll come up with other solutions as well.

B

I think in their discussion I think it would be invaluable to have that joint conversation.

D

Let me let me pick up on that thought because I remember when we were looking at.

D

um The potential for community broadband, we actually went to the edc and asked them to kind.

D

Of appoint a two members or something of the edc, um to meet with one or two members of the cable.

D

Commission- and it was a formal subcommittee so to speak, but of combined members precisely to be able.

D

To have two different bodies opine on what was or was not possible, so I'm, maybe that might be.

D

A way to go, which is to go to each committee and ask if they could designate one or two people to.

D

You know either come to governance with you know the the questions or to meet.

D

Collectively but I think getting the whole committees together, given their scheduling.

D

Pieces might be really hard but reaching out to each of the committees and asking either.

D

For them to answer a certain set of questions that they deliver, have someone deliver back to.

D

This committee, or have them come to you, know, designate one or two people from the committee.

D

To to talk about this might be a way to do it or to or to talk amongst themselves. First and.

D

However, you want it, but if that's useful know that we've done something like that before.

B

I think that that's absolutely a reasonable approach. um What are the, what is the committee? Do.

B

The committee members think about having having them come to governance committee towards the.

B

End of january, so we give them an opportunity in january to discuss in maybe a point a few.

B

Individuals, I think it's a a good idea to to bring here we're never going to get all of them together.

B

But I'm sure they're interested parties in each one of these. Well, maybe maybe the at that's a.

E

Point at which we could ask each committee to send representatives rather than uh just abroad,.

E

Invitation to the committees, and so we because if we get too many people here, it's going to be.

E

It's going to be a long meeting, it would be, it would be, but I like the idea of.

C

Getting a delegate from each of those boards and committees.

C

Okay, uh invited with the purpose of of really brainstorming of you know.

C

What are the needs in our community and what are different ways to solve them?.

C

Teeing off that that needs-based problem solving approach, definitely I also, I think it's also.

B

Important um there I know that counselor tabor you've listed two questions to think.

B

About I think that we should add question around passive passive use of space, but I.

B

Think we should also ask a question about.

C

um Absolutely because that's coming up in the second half of next year.

B

So um could you, um how does everyone feel about us going ahead and doing this and let's plan, let's.

B

Look at a date where we we can set the date here for the for the governance committee meeting and.

B

We will invite them to come, participate to send representatives who participate and that will.

B

Be the focus of discussion, we have a governance committee meeting already set in january, but we.

B

Could set a second one, that's specifically just for this discussion. If that works for everyone, I.

E

Think that's the way to go with that. That's the logical next step, the dedicated committee. Okay,.

B

um I intend for us to all look at our our schedules. At the end, I meant to put that.

B

Under other business, I did include other businesses on the agenda, but that's the.

B

Plan so we can plan meetings out a little bit further than we have them currently so.

B

um Let's plan a date at the end of the meeting, we're doing that.

B

And then I will also send around um through, since I can't send anything to you guys directly.

B

Because it creates a violation of right to know, we will send out a list of questions.

B

For everyone to review so that we have input for our early meeting in january, that we can discuss.

B

um Before that meeting as well yeah, because there's some kind of.

C

Packet for that for then read in advance from each of the committees. That would be helpful.

C

Okay, I'd recommend this article to be part of that too.

D

I'm cognizant that if you wait until the 9th, which is your next meeting to finalize.

D

The communication that you're sending to the various committees, given their schedules and.

D

When their agendas would go out, um you know you could always have a snow day.

D

Either push out when you would have them come back, because you want to give them enough time.

D

To really have a discussion, I think about this topic and report back, so I'm just cognizant of the.

D

The timing here, you might not have enough time versus if you are comfortable enough just having.

D

Council cook send a communication out, you know under my auspices or something it doesn't matter.

D

How we do it to the rec board conservation commission, you know saying hey: why don't you.

D

Listen in on, if they want portions of this meeting, and you summarize the key elements or if you don't.

D

Want to do that, if you want to look at it together on the ninth, then I think you're going to have to.

D

Choose a date beyond the end of january, just to make sure you give each of the boards that you're.

D

Looking for input from adequate time to decide who would be a good representative for them to talk.

D

Amongst themselves, perhaps first for a meeting about their own perspective on the topic so.

E

I think that's a good idea if we could get something out now an invitation and maybe look at.

E

I mean there's a the 30th of january is at least on my calendar. This looks pretty open um and.

E

You know so that would give them basically a month, um including holiday time. You know to.

E

For committees to assign people or ask for representatives.

B

I think that's not unreasonable, I'm happy to do that. Are you comfortable with that counselor.

C

Tabor yeah, okay, that's a good plan. Okay, then I will go ahead and get something out this week.

B

um So that they're aware before they meet in january.

B

Amen and would I be correct, you're looking at communication to the recreation board.

D

The conservation, commission, trees and greenery, and would you like to include cemetery.

B

um We maybe should include cemetery and the other uh group that we should include.

B

Is someone representing um uh bike, ped path, um and that might be some committee on that.

D

No, uh what you'll have is um you know there is the the group that focuses on bicycle access.

D

Which is saber um eric, eb talked about parking traffic and safety. um I'm almost wondering if you.

D

I'm trying to think there really is no no group for for walkers, um and so the only question would.

D

Be whether you might want someone from saber to to come and provide a bicycling perspective.

B

And that that might be reasonable, or we could even ask parking traffic and safety if there's.

B

A representative on parking traffic and safety- I like that who can yep, who can provide that.

B

Input I know that there's a person on parking traffic and safety that only uses a bike as.

B

Their armory vehicle, so that might that's wow, that's okay! So so two three four five and do you.

C

Want someone from public works, who, I would think basically is in charge of parts maintenance, is a.

E

Piece of it: okay- I'll, add that yes yeah. I think it's important to also include.

B

Part uh our public works department because ultimately they're going to be responsible.

B

They're going to implement exactly exactly okay, so so that's what the direction will.

B

Move and moving forward for parks and green spaces um does the 30th work for.

B

The 30th works for me: yeah, that's good, yes, okay, so I'll just put on my calendar, then for now, okay.

D

10 a.m: 10 a.m january's available.

D

I think it's it would be helpful when, just when we send the communication out that they.

D

Understand it is a monday morning, 10 a.m meeting so that as they choose, who might want to summarize.

D

Or or appear on behalf of the committee that they're aware of that time, so yes definitely.

B

The next item- that's not a council meeting night. Is it.

B

No, I believe it's not. We have a meeting the prior week on tuesday. I believe. Okay, yes, yes,.

E

Oh yeah, on a wednesday, actually is it on wednesday yeah budget meeting? No, I got that too.

F

E

I forget what happened with the budget. They did not change those.

B

Meetings did not change it's meeting in may. That was altered. Yeah yeah.

C

Okay, so the the final calendar should be coming out from kelly.

B

So um the next item on the agenda is committees and ordinances, review.

B

um This was I, as I will refresh everyone's memories, since we haven't been here in.

B

In a few months uh we were discussing uh the various changes recommended changes to committees.

B

um To try to fix tenure and where we are, and we had discussed, bringing in input from former mayors.

B

And for the new hampshire municipal association, I have not invited them yet I was going to invite.

B

Them for the first meeting in january, I wanted to give them enough lead time and december is.

B

Difficult so december is very hard to get people in and I didn't. I didn't want to people to feel.

B

Like they were pressured to come in december so far in december, I've had three meetings.

B

Canceled at this point so so I know that this is a real challenge. I've had one that had no quorums.

B

Time to have a meeting um close to the holidays, so uh so I will invite them for the january 9th.

B

Meeting um and and we'll see who we have um we've already heard from mayor former mayor.

B

Beckstead, who just happened to be here anyway for the committee meeting, but I.

B

Will let him know as well so if he wants to come in and share additional insights.

B

Okay right does that work for everyone, and um and uh I I will ask some assistance from.

B

The staff and reaching out to the new hampshire municipal association, yeah, we'll we'll reach out.

D

uh As you know, from the last time they were kind of like uh you know, you have a legal department.

D

um We'll ask you we'll provide general answers, but I'll review drafts. So, okay, we'll we'll see.

D

What we get, but we might be able to get some kind of hey any red flags. You know some of the issues.

D

That we know of the red flag issues in terms of few fairly unique in terms of the stagger.

D

More generally, have any other communities been wrestling with trying to correct a stagger issue.

D

um I know I've got some conversations coming up with rochester and dover legal counsel on other.

D

Matters so I'll see if I can just work that into the conversation while I've got them on the phone.

D

See if anyone else has uh wrestled with this, that would be wonderful. Okay, yeah.

B

um So that will be coming up january. 9Th that'll be our discussion for that morning.

B

um Under new business um and the reason I still have the sun, I should have moved.

B

Donations policy up to old business, since we did actually discuss it. Some at our last meeting.

B

um At this stage, we've discussed the donations policy from the perspective of what that looks,.

B

Like from finance and what we should be thinking about, around limitations, there's.

B

An another element to this that I would like to bring into our discussions as well.

B

Around elections and declarations of donations around elections, which we haven't discussed yet.

B

And we also haven't discussed um well and and disclosures of those as well. So I think that.

B

That needs to be an element here as well um in our discussions. I don't know that that donations.

B

Policy necessarily achieves its intended goal, so I think that the committee should have that.

B

Discussion um at least to make some to to make sure that we are where we need to be, or we think.

B

We are where we need to be so that's another element of donations um as far as next steps here.

B

um You know we're we're at the stage where we're I'm gathering information. Still I haven't received.

B

Back information, I don't know how much the deputy city manager has received. Yes, yep.

D

um So I have and um like, for example, the police department's donations policy plus their sop.

D

um So they have a very you know, because they're, uniquely situated in how they move through the.

D

Community, it's not surprising that you would find that they actually have a fairly significant.

D

Standard operating procedure, um which you know covers gifts and gratuities with more examples.

D

Definitions um than what you'll find just in chapter, one, which is applicable to all employees,.

D

How to you know, disposition of unauthorized gifts and gratuities, so what I could do is I'm.

D

Starting to pull together like a packet, so you can kind of see what's being done. The library.

D

Last I checked was updating their donation policy like the police department. They.

D

Sometimes get you know not just cash, you know people are looking to give other things.

D

um And so I know they were updating theirs and I was waiting to get the updated one because.

D

They think it would be useful to see what is being done already. I know the fire department.

D

Does not have at least last, I checked a separate donations policy. They typically those go straight.

D

Through council, you know in the usual manner or if they want to do some special fundraiser.

D

They're, typically getting some kind of approval from the city council um and then waiting to get.

D

A cop I don't know if that's school, I'm sure the school department probably has the written policy.

D

Because I know that came up at the last meeting, um so I've asked for that and I think when we tackle.

D

Or when you tackle the subject, maybe there's groupings there's those that are covered by other.

D

Elected officials, whether it's police, commission, fire, commission, school and that's kind of one.

D

Sort of the sphere, and then you have the other sphere, which is everything else. That's.

D

Not covered, you know, really falls under the city council, purview and there's no other elected body.

D

um You may have a few hybrids like the trustees of trust funds are not not the trustees, the trustees.

D

Of the library, so that's kind of its own special piece and then you have the completely different.

D

Piece which you've just talked about, which is um gifts and donations related to elected officials,.

D

And I think it's important that when we talk about it, that is a very separate animal. Yes, it is.

D

um And and just kind of keep in mind the which realm that we're operating in.

D

um So if it works for you I'll continue to gather pieces and maybe put them in kind of those realms.

D

um I was going to reach out to see. I know. um Judy spoke a little bit about how dover.

D

You know handles theirs, I'm thinking if we build that out a little bit in.

D

Terms of maybe the way other communities are looking, particularly at the broader band of.

D

What's going to their city council, how are they looking at it just to give you guys a working.

D

Pieces of what's being done so so that's in process, but that's I've got the pd piece and.

D

It's pretty thorough, there's a short piece of here's: here's how we move it through the.

D

System, as you got explained the other day, but then they also have um yeah just a little more.

D

In their standard operating procedures, a little more on gratuities and gifts and that kind of.

D

Thing- and it might be helpful at the right time, if you're interested in in that bringing someone in.

D

From the pd to or from the commission to to talk about it a little more if there are questions but.

E

I have a question about fire: um how does how does how does the the boot campaign work for them.

E

um How does that work? um My recollection is, they are not. That was the one where they're.

D

Raising money for cancers- I recall correct yes, um and so that they usually do kind.

D

Of check in and get permission um for that special campaign, it is a bit problematical.

D

um In part, actually because it runs a foul of our panhandling in some in some ways.

D

um And- and you want to be careful about what your you know- you don't want to make exceptions.

D

As you know, um in ways that that can be problematical in terms of enforcement, so.

D

Yeah good question good question um and I don't I just remember we discussed it. I.

D

And I remember discussing the panhandling statute as as that.

B

I know on the elected side of things. One of the concerns I have is around donations by elected.

B

Officials to city entities and how we handle that, for example, if the the fire department.

B

Or the police department has a fundraiser or the school department has a fundraiser.

B

um You know at how much can a city of an elected official donate without that being considered.

B

Somehow I think we need to be careful with conflict of interest and looking for endorsements.

B

During elections, so that's a question I always have. Is you know, as an elected official, you know.

B

What is a reasonable amount to kind of cap or limit as far as donations when it comes to things.

B

Like fundraisers for one of our entities, which we know some of them provide endorsements during.

B

Elections so so I think that that's that's a really critical question to think about.

C

um Yeah and the other.

C

The other way to keep that visible to the public and transparent.

C

Is I mean the process we have now? Is the donations are listed? They come to the city council. We.

C

Approve them even down to the hundred dollar level right, um I'm not sure we need to go down.

C

To the hundred dollar level, but I am sure that the more sunshine you have on all these donations.

C

So that anybody can say anybody can scratch their head and say: oh that developer's going before the.

C

Land use sports and he's giving a big chunk of money to prescott park, or this trust for that. You.

F

Know right, I think that's got to be visible right exactly and I wouldn't want any links to be made.

B

um Between somebody donating- and uh you know, public officials and people who are elected- that's.

B

A difficult place to be as far as donations go because people can choose pick and choose who they.

B

Are going to single out in particular instances and one of the things that I was concerned.

B

About is when an elected official donates to a fundraiser, it's not donating to the city. It's.

B

Donating to another entity, but through acidity city entity. So if you raise money for uh cancer.

B

um It doesn't the money, donations, don't actually go to the city it's funneled through, but you know.

B

You want to make sure that there's no perception that you're trying to get favors somehow.

B

um With the next election or the electioneering so so this is a kind of my question about making sure.

B

We have a clear donations policy, that's not just um on the other side of things. This is the other.

B

Side, the elected official side of things: that's um donations towards individuals when they're.

B

Running but also donations that individuals make when it is affiliated in some way with the city.

B

Yeah, that's a a good point and I don't think we've really kind of looked at that closely before or.

D

At least not in, in my recollection, um I'm almost wondering if there is guidance from the attorney.

D

General's office that we might be able to leverage so since I've got susan who couldn't be here, this.

D

Morning, because of another meeting, but I will ask her- I think we can definitely see if we can.

D

Get some information on that, because that may help us help the committee kind of look at that fresh.

B

Thank you. Thank you. So um if it's okay with everyone here, I would like to add, I think.

B

That in january, on january, 9th we're going to be discussing committees and ordinances, we're.

B

Going to invite individuals in to discuss that and I think the donations policy, hopefully we.

B

Have a little bit more clarity by january by january, 9th I'd like to add it to that.

B

Agenda when we go into more depth on this, we have potentially policies to look at.

B

um And we can take that in two separate areas. We can start with the city side of things and then.

B

Separately, discuss the elected side of things at a a later meeting, if that makes sense to everyone.

D

I think that makes sense from the city's point of view to kind of work on. You know.

D

Our own house first and I think it'll be hopefully in the next week I'll have you.

D

Know a little binder of policies that we have in place so far and you can have that. Hopefully.

D

Before the holiday and and kind of be ready for the january meeting, okay, are we maybe being a.

C

Little too ambitious to try and do committees and ordinances and donations in one meeting.

C

Because those might be substantive discussions of 30 40 minutes each.

C

I don't know just I'll toss that out to us for our thinking. Potentially, yes,.

B

um Do we want to divide that out and and start and and bring that up early february.

C

For donations, maybe it's made to get the donations early february.

B

Sure I certainly staff never objects to more time.

D

As we try and tie up a number of things, your end here, I'm going to put that on the agenda.

B

Then, for our first meeting in february, okay, okay, that makes sense yeah that does okay.

B

um The next item I have, then, is a sidewalk policy.

B

um Which we do have a sidewalk policy, um let's see, if I can here it is here yeah. This came up.

C

With a state street- yes, brick sidewalks exactly so. This is something that we haven't covered.

B

Yet but we've been tasked with covering again, I wanted to highlight it and get it on our agenda.

B

um For next year, I want to make sure that we have a date where we know we're going to start talking.

B

About sidewalk policy, um uh what I think believe I believe the discussion was at the council and.

B

um Please correct me: if I'm wrong here, I would really appreciate that.

B

um Was that maybe we need to revisit this because we've had an incident recently where there were.

B

Questions about removal of brick, sidewalks and replacement with concrete sidewalks, because they.

B

Weren't defined as part of the historic district, so maybe we need a different policy that doesn't.

B

Doesn't drive that maybe we should alter it slightly so.

C

Or the other alternative is to keep the policy, but.

C

Continue to allow the council to make exceptions, yes, and that is a viable alternative.

E

If I I just went to the city website and typed in sidewalk policies and there's a lot.

E

I mean you know: does that include uh policies concerning cafes, sidewalk cafes? Does that include.

E

um Or is it just kind of the length and width and you know of sidewalks dining areas.

E

Sidewalk obstruction, obstruction.

E

Sewers, you know, I guess excavation flagging. I I mean there's a lot of policies around sidewalks.

E

um So uh just makes me think: that's a big subject. Yes, it is, it is a big subject. um I took our our.

B

Discussion as being really limited to what is the the replacement policy for sidewalks.

B

um Because that's what the council was discussing at the time when they asked governance to look at.

B

This um I had not ventured into the bigger subject matter and I think that the council.

B

Will be discussing that my understanding is on wednesday night. There will be some discussion.

B

Around cafes on sidewalk, cafes and and that kind of issue, but I don't think that we've been tasked.

B

With that necessarily yet I, but I do know, we have been tasked with this discussion definitively.

B

um And I it might be helpful here to to bring in some perspective from uh some some outside players.

B

I think um I would think it would. It would be valuable to get views from. Maybe the edc.

B

um Because I think the question becomes as different areas in the city develop in.

B

Different ways, what is the best policy for as an economic driver and sidewalks around and being.

B

An economic driver: um how do you connect either side of the train tracks in the west end exactly.

B

I think there are also questions around from the htc. Maybe we have it as we get some viewpoints.

B

From the htc on what makes sense, as far as brick versus concrete and what neighborhoods are.

B

um Maybe we should be thinking differently about certain neighborhoods that even fall outside the.

B

Htc or maybe not, you know, but I think that would be a valuable, valuable input. um uh I think it's.

B

Also reasonable to get a public works view on this, because they're the ones ultimately responsible.

B

For replacement of the sidewalks, and so I think it's it's valuable- to hear their input as well.

B

It always has a budgetary impact too. So that's a really critical piece is that brick sidewalks.

B

Are probably more maintenance, it does. I think, there's value in you know understanding pros.

D

Cons how it affects a project or not yeah, um and then maybe we can bring input back to the council.

B

With a presentation to the council on, you know, this is what these are, what our findings are.

B

And let the council kind of make a decision on what next steps would be.

B

With regard to this, rather than I I don't know, I don't feel comfortable with this committee kind.

B

Of recommending to the council, this is what our policy should be. I feel like we should be.

B

Gathering information for the council, so it's not done there and then um yeah and give the council.

C

Options: yeah yeah does that make sense to kind of proceed in that manner, at least with this, I'm just.

B

Talking about this specific policy, no other policy, just this one sidewalk policy I'll also reach out.

D

And see if anyone from planning wants to be part of that conversation conversation because they.

D

May have a perspective in terms of how things link link up and um what's typically required and okay.

B

Maybe we could have, we could plan to have that discussion.

B

um Either, towards the end of february or early march, does that seem like a reasonable timeline.

F

Okay, just be cognizant when you get to the end of february at school vacation. Yes, I.

B

I'm suspecting this is going to push to march because we're going to have to close loopholes.

B

In the other two discussions we've already had, but but um in case we finish, those early.

B

We might be looking at end of february, or in that case does. Is that an okay way to proceed? Okay,.

B

Okay: um let's go back to the agenda um and I have here review of conflict of interest and the reason.

B

That I have that on the agenda. That was the one piece of the ethics ordinance. We didn't look at.

B

So um especially if we're going to talk about and and this will come up, the donations policy.

B

And elected officials related to that conflict of interest is a piece of that and we should.

B

Be discussing um making sure the conflict of interest policy so far is reflective of where.

B

We think we should be, it might be fine, but I think we do need to have that discussion as well.

B

um And again, this is something that's no huge rush, but um it is on the agenda to discuss.

B

Is it okay? If we put that kind of the last thing yeah, I think there's still some more work to work work to do on that. One.

C

And we mirror the state statute. What do we want to have language that deals with.

C

Non-Monetary conflict.

C

And the appearance of conflict and there be an appearance of conflict so big that.

C

It hurts the credibility.

C

Of the elected body.

C

And those are hard questions I mean then.

C

But I think that's that's some of the work that should at least be discussed.

E

No problem with that yeah, okay,.

B

So I am guessing that we will get to conflict of interest more broadly around april.

B

Of next year, but that's a guess, it's assuming we move more quickly on some of these other things.

B

So we'll do some more background work. There pull everything together, I'll start pulling together.

B

Different policies from different cities try to get uh more input um around that from like the.

B

Municipal association, if we can, if they're willing to weigh in I know they they're, not they're,.

B

Sometimes reluctant to do so, um but also from from any of our neighboring cities on on where we stand.

B

So, okay, um is there any further discussion, we're ready to open it to public comment.

C

Covers it: okay, okay, booked ourselves out through april; that's good! It's pretty good.

B

um So I'll open it up to public comment. Is there any public comment.

G

Petrahuda 280 south street. um The only comment I would have, especially on your discussing and.

G

Moving out the conflict of interest further through april is you have issues that are coming.

G

Before the council and other boards currently so I would think it would be more important to.

G

Get that moved up. I would also point out um in last week's council meeting- um and this is not.

G

Not criticizing not saying anything, but um you had somebody who would benefit from your.

G

um Discussion financially vote on something when it was not even necessary and it didn't even.

G

Come to mind, obviously, uh and I'm speaking about the um the parking for downtown for the holiday.

G

um You have a council member who is a um merchant or has a business downtown, who.

G

Would benefit on that? um The vote did not matter um and there was a vote taken and they voted.

G

um To me, it's apparent that there needs some education on either the rsas or anything to.

G

Do with conflict or the appearance of conflict on all of our boards, so um my suggestion or my.

G

Request as a resident would be that you move that up, because there are a lot of.

G

Instances where it's it's coming into effect uh lately and that's all I have thank you. Thank you.

B

Is there any other public comment? Okay and there's no one on zoom.

B

Except me, so I'm going to close public comment. um Thank you all for providing input to us.

B

um With that said, I forgot to include on the agenda setting the meeting dates for next year.

B

um So we don't have other business, but that is the only other business that we have.

B

So far we have scheduled january 9th. We also have scheduled january 30th.

B

um I don't believe we have a february meeting scheduled yet.

B

If I'm right or do we, I didn't, I didn't think we did. I am not seeing any um so. Let's look at.

B

um So we have city council on february on the 6th. um I would think that the.

B

February 13th date, therefore, would probably be better 13th and 27th. Yes,.

B

How is february, 13th and then february and then february 27th same with march, okay,.

B

I love how that works.

B

Yes, exactly um yeah in march, we would also be um we would be looking at around the 13th.

B

And then the 27th yep as well, those are open. Okay,.

B

So far they are open. For me, there is a possibility I might be out of town on that.

B

February 13th date, but that's not planned yet, and it's not definitive by any means.

B

um If we go into april.

B

um We would be looking at similar dates april 10th and 24th.

C

Easter monday, it's easter monday is that going? Is that a challenge? I don't think so? Okay,.

D

I may be flying back that morning, but I'll I'll figure that out or I can always have someone.

B

Cover and have the maybe the city attorney yeah depends schedules yeah well yeah. My daughter's.

D

Having surgery so I'm thinking I'm out there, but flying back the 10th. I think, okay, okay, so that.

B

Might be one we might have to change? Why don't we put it on the schedule and stick with it for now.

B

um And then may is a little bit more challenging because we have city council on the 8th and.

B

Then we have all day city council, on the 15th, yes and and the evening and evening.

B

So um I think we're gonna regret that I'm pretty sure the 15th is not doesn't work.

B

We could we could possibly. We also have city council by the way on the first, so.

B

We first eighth and 15th that month, um when we get to may I would suggest we.

B

Either hold our first meeting on the 8th, which is a day of city council.

B

um And then the 22nd, when we don't have city council, is what I would recommend.

C

C

We have a regularly scheduled council meeting on the 8th we do on the 8th. We also have city council.

B

On the first year in april in may may so we get to. May we have um city council, the first eighth 15th.

C

So so the 15th does not have a night meeting. In addition to that it does it does. We have.

B

Three night meetings: um I think that the one of those is a um one of those a budget is a.

B

Budget adoption yeah the budget hearing is on the eighth yeah. So that's why the eighth is probably.

E

And one is the old the best it's the 15th, that's what we changed at council. The last.

B

Council session yeah I missed that yeah yeah, so 15th of the 15th of may just put.

B

A a mark from 8 a.m, through 11 p.m. In your calendar for city council yeah, maybe just.

C

Only have march 22nd or may 22nd. We can also do that. We're all pretty busy with the budget.

B

Yeah at that stage, I'm fine with that too. If we only meet once in may right, because the.

C

Next monday is memorial day, so you're knocked off on that. Yes, it's complicated. I think it becomes.

B

Difficult when we start moving these meetings to tuesdays and wednesdays, it's confusing for people.

B

um So, let's just let's just plan on may the 22nd yeah.

B

And then, let's, when you go into june june, is we would be looking at the 12th and 26th.

B

B

July is a little bit challenging as well. um Only one meeting only there's only one meeting.

C

Yeah yeah um there's only one council meeting, but then, if we tried to schedule around it, we.

B

Would be looking at like the third, which I don't think anyone wants to schedule on the third? No.

B

um And uh and then the so, we would be the 17th potentially.

B

Than if we really wanted to, we could we could add a meeting on july 31st if we felt like we needed.

B

Another meeting yeah, if we really wanted to we really wanted to okay, that's not a requirement.

E

um It's heavy vacation time. It is a heavy vacation time and I think july 31st is a.

B

Challenge right: yes, it's both july vacation and august, starting for people yeah exactly.

B

um So I'm going to make a recommendation, that's going to sound crazy, but I think that it would.

B

Be good for us because it's more likely to work for people's schedules than in august.

B

We schedule on a city council day, because people will be in town for city council.

B

And that way we're not adding an extra day somewhere in the calendar.

B

um When people might be able to travel.

B

um No, I think that makes sense. um How is august the 7th for everyone. It's good okay,.

B

So um we could also do august 21st if we wanted to. That would be two days that we have council.

B

It would be the only month that we did something like that, um but it's up to you guys.

C

21St is back to school, really yeah, I think in the seventh. Seventh is good yeah. The seventh is good.

E

The seven is good and leave the 21st off yeah. Okay, I have another committee that meets that day as.

B

Well, so I'm I'm kind of I'm okay with whatever we end up with um september um september, 11th.

B

And 25th now the 11th is: is we don't consider that a a holiday here? Do we, but there are ceremonies.

B

That morning, oh right, no, um so that will be a bit of a challenge. The ceremony, usually, I think at.

B

Nine, yes, is it nine round, so we should be able to go straight from this ceremony in in for a meeting.

B

If that works for everyone on the 11th, okay, okay,.

B

And so that's 11th and 25th of september. Try to get these scheduled out so that we.

B

We're not trying to schedule them during the year.

B

um October, once again, we have a holiday on a monday on that first monday and.

B

That might be the only meeting that I make a recommendation that we move it to tuesday.

B

um That, first october, 9th yeah makes sense yeah. So if we don't close them yeah, if we do october 10th.

B

Instead, which is a tuesday morning,.

B

B

Just so that we avoid the holiday and we don't push it, I don't want to push it into a city.

B

Council, the next week to a city council week if we can avoid it, so that would be our only tuesday.

B

October 10th, okay, 10th 23rd um november would be ooh november might be a challenge.

B

um Because the sixth is the day before election day, I think maybe we shouldn't meet that day. No.

E

So I think, maybe november the 20th and we'll just keep it at one day, although.

B

I should know that's thanksgiving week, foreign before thanksgiving.

B

People want to meet the monday before thanksgiving or do we want to meet on the.

B

City council night, which is the 13th, I think it's probably better- to have the 13th okay.

B

I know I'm here, but I know that.

B

um I'm probably the only one- that's stuck here because of a school schedule for that week, so.

D

So did you decide on the 13th on the 13th? Yes,.

B

um So we've got two meetings so far that we have city council, the one in august. The.

B

One in november november, the 13th and then in december um well, the 13th is.

C

Just certifying the election right, um no, that's the ninth. The ninth, the 13th is a.

B

Full city council meeting that night yeah, so um so we would be having that meeting the same day.

B

As city council, the only advantage to that is, we avoid meeting just before the election day.

B

And we avoid meeting thanksgiving, so it might be worth just the the pain of doing a morning.

B

Meeting and city council that evening um it allows more flexibility, I think, for everyone.

B

And then we get to december.

B

um I don't know the december hanukkah's schedule for next year. I don't have that right now,.

E

Right now, um monica's less important than things like.

E

But we have an ordinance that we have to recognize hanukkah, so um uh I just want to make.

B

Sure I would I would say that the anticipated meeting date for december would be the 11th.

B

Assuming that we don't have um hanukkah.

B

And I don't I didn't look to see in september when the high holy days are december. Hanukkah next year.

C

Is the 7th, through the 15th, uh that's right in the middle of hanukkah, so we can't do that.

B

B

So maybe we should plan for um the prior either the city council meeting day.

B

That, first, first monday in december.

B

Or we will plan for the second.

B

What would be preferred where are we at um for december, so we would either be looking at.

B

um What is that december 4 december 18th, yeah december 4th or december 18th? I don't.

B

Have my calendar up now, I'm looking for a high holy days. I think I think fourth.

E

I think the 18th, the 18th, is probably more difficult. Yeah and get people get really busy.

B

Towards the end of the month, yeah, it looks like rosh hashanah is september, 16th, okay,.

B

That's good: we've avoided that yeah september 15th is 6th, 17th young kippurs, the 25th, so.

B

Okay, so we need to move that we have to move that september. 25Th meeting yeah.

B

You know, maybe we should consider. We've got one tuesday on the 10th. Maybe we should consider.

B

Moving that one to the, because that went to the 26th as well, to make it a second a tuesday.

B

In september, a tuesday in october, well is the ordinance for all committees or just accounts.

D

So let me clarify it's not an ordinance, no, it's, it is policy, it's a policy um and the.

D

Intention is simply to be reasonably respectful of the broad diversity of religious holidays out.

D

There, so it's not a mandatory, it is a you know, try to adjust the schedule so as to accommodate.

D

um And and it's a cross, it is beyond the city council we've been trying to be a little more.

D

Cognizant when we're scheduling- but there are a lot of meetings going on so we're also, you know.

D

It's um and also recognizing some holidays are, um depending on the nature of the practice you.

D

Can still work that holiday, it's not a violation to work that holiday and there's just a service.

D

So we're trying to have some subtlety about it, but I would certainly move the yom kippur. One.

D

Yes, definitely, no one who needs to move the 24th has to move um or the other possibility.

D

Is I mean when you think about what's left on your under your new business and when you'll.

D

Be taking it up, it may be once a month by the time you're getting to that back end of the year.

D

Maybe we should just take out the 25th and just meet the one. The september 11th date.

B

And then, if we need to add a date, we can add in a second date in september, because we do have.

F

Two days, yes, we can't meet right exactly so um so, let's take out september 25th and then let's.

B

Go to in december, maybe plan for the fourth yeah instead of the 11th okay, and then we always have.

B

We can always add the 18th if we need to if we feel like we have additional business. We.

B

Need to finish yeah I mean, if you get to june and july, and it looks like you've got a lot of work.

D

Left then, you know to look for some more dates and if it looks like things are tying up, then.

D

Good, okay, I think we generally have a a working calendar for next year. I will get out a list for.

B

Everyone of the calendar so that you can make sure that we have all the dates in your calendars and.

B

um I think that's it unless there's anything else from anyone.

B

Okay, can I get a motion to adjourn then so move? Second, all in favor.

B

All right all right, we are adjourned for 2022.