City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 2 Feb 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 2.2.2022 Historic District Commission

Description

2.2.2022 Historic District Commission

A

Okay, all right, it could be a while. Let's do it.

B

Recording in progress uh good evening, everybody and welcome to the february 2nd meeting of the.

C

Historic district commission we've got a quorum of commissioners present tonight, but our chair and.

C

Vice chair are participating via zoom they're, both unavailable for tonight's meeting, so the first.

C

Order of business before we get into introductions and the agenda tonight is to vote to have an.

C

Interim chair for this meeting and if somebody could make a motion for an interim chair of one.

C

Of the members that's present, we will uh take a roll call vote and hopefully have an interim chair.

C

Mr chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we uh nominate margo doering for tonight's interim chair.

A

Second, second, okay, so um no discussion do we have a discussion? No, so let's just do a roll call.

C

Starting with karen hi david hi, rich hi you're, the last you're, not at all, yes,.

A

Yes, dance all right, unanimous, okay, so you're now chair. Thank you very much. Welcome everybody! So.

B

We'll start with an introduction of the members of the board so to my right. Well, I'll do remotely so.

B

John wyckoff and reagan rudik are participating remotely to my right. We have dan brown.

B

Good evening, martin ryan, good evening, on the other side, we have karen bouffard good.

B

Evening david adams good evening and a special welcome to our new city council representative.

B

Rich blaylock, thank you very much good evening and nick now, our principal planner good evening.

B

Okay, let me read this: the board's action in these matters has been deemed to be quasi-judicial in.

B

Nature, if any person believes any member of the board, has a conflict of interest that.

B

Issue should be raised at this point or will be deemed waived. Anybody wish to make a comment. No.

B

Okay: first item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from the january 5th meeting.

B

May I have a motion or any comments to be made on the minutes at this time it was.

D

I moved that we approved the minutes as presented.

D

Can I can you hear me, can I yes jump in real fast.

E

One one of the pages hold on. Let me see if I can find it. This is reagan speaking.

E

Shoot well now, I can't find it because I don't have a way to mark it on here.

E

um But at one point in the minutes I was just referred to as miss reagan.

E

Which would be great if I were a teacher, but we'll take care of that. Thank you.

A

Okay, so we have a motion from martin.

B

In a second check it out, okay and all those in favor we'll need to roll call this as well.

C

uh Yes, because those two members very good roll call vote starting online reagan.

F

Yes, john, yes, karen, yes, dave, aye, rich, yes, martin, yes, dan! Yes, chair votes, yes,.

B

Okay, um I'd like to ask first: if there are any recusals or any issues, anybody has with.

B

Any of the projects on the agenda that they need to bring forward at this time.

E

Okay, um yes, this is reagan. I will have to recuse myself from court.

E

Street in the administrative approvals, thank you.

B

All right, I'd, also like to at this time, take care of the request to postpone, which is.

B

Under work sessions, old business request to postpone by uh wanderings avenue, 31 reigns.

B

Avenue and 203 maplewood avenue so moved. Thank you second. Second, karen. Thank you.

B

Any discussion and a roll call vote on this as well. John, yes reagan. Yes, dan.

B

Yes, martin, yes rich, yes, dave aye, karen! Yes, chair votes; yes, thank you! Okay! So we're gonna pull 160.

B

Court street, from the administrative approvals uh nick, would you go through the remainder and.

B

We'll vote on those and then deal with court street sure. Thank you. So we've got four.

C

Other administrative approvals, the first one being 500 market street, which is unit 7. and it is to.

C

Remove an exhaust vent on uh a building located as unit 7 and 500 market street and add two louvers.

C

In a different location and there's a set of plans that are included that I'll pan down to.

C

Let me just see, can you see don't have to close this, so this is the location of the property here.

C

At noble's island, this is the unit in the building images of the building. There is a proposed louver.

C

On this section of the building, which is the back and then there's a proposed.

C

Exhaust louver location over on the side- and there are pretty detailed drawings here, both.

C

These louvers are being painted to match the siding or the material. The background.

C

Pretty straight forward almost didn't need to be here, but it's in nobles, island and.

C

They're painting it to match the siding, any issues with that.

A

Nope hearing none we'll skip 160 court, 475 marcy street, again very, uh very minor application.

C

Which is the intention of these administrative approvals just get down to it? They're adding a.

C

Event, another terminal vent on the side wall of this property that fronts on marcy street and.

C

Is a corner lot on partridge there is. This is the location on the screen of where this.

C

And it's appropriately sized in that red oval, but it's located behind this uh enclosure here.

C

On the side of the building- and I think the only thing we might want to do because I didn't.

C

Catch it, but it could be, there is make sure it's painted the color of the siding as a stipulation.

C

Any questions on that any objections to the stipulation or concerns it's consistent. Okay,.

C

So then 40 bird street, another set of drawings prepared by mchenry architecture. This uh has a.

C

Few more moving parts, but uh it's pretty simple: there are louvers in the back of the building.

C

That were previously approved that are being relocated. One is an intake and one is an exhaust.

C

Vent there is underground parking in this building, which is presumably what that's for.

C

On the back of the building, there's some lighting that's being proposed.

C

Associated with the future sign of the business I'll get this out of the way.

C

Okay, there's a sign here on this fence was already previously approved.

C

So these lights are being requested to be mounted on that screen wall. I guess you call it fence and.

C

That's that's the sign signage that's being uh proposed, but it's really not jurisdictional to us.

C

The sign itself we're just showing it maybe the purpose for the lights same along the front.

C

Facade of the building there's they're, putting lighting out there for the future sign band and.

C

All the fixtures are included here, as well as the uh I guess, the the louvers and the termination bed.

C

And all the lighting specs nothing jumped out at me, but is anybody here in the audience related to.

C

This application, do you want to add anything if I missed something? Okay, thank you. Any questions. Okay,.

C

Last one on the short list here of four is 145 maplewood ave again a pretty.

C

Pretty minor application there was a roof deck previously approved. You can see it here.

C

On the screen, so this is the new building on the corner of rains. Ave.

C

Vaughn street, on the back and maple wood on the front, this was the size of the roof.

C

Deck, if you can see the grabber and what they're proposing to do is shrink. It.

C

In half it's still got the ability to be expanded in the future, because that that enclosure is.

C

Already created up there, but their roof deck, the active portion is going to be smaller.

C

And it's shown here, if you can see my grabber over here is this: is the roof deck that's activated.

C

They're proposing to have a fire pit uh installed on there per certainly all life safety.

C

Requirements and some bollard lighting, so they can use that. Presumably when it's not light out.

C

I think other than maybe just to avoid surprises. We might want to.

C

Stipulate that all lighting should be dark sky compliant, so we don't end up with that problem.

C

That that's it for those four.

B

Any questions or discussion heinz welcome. I moved that we approve what is presented.

D

um With the two stipulations yeah, you had the stipulation of the dark sky for the last one.

D

Yep and painted to match for the uh the louver on marcy match the siding sir bit. Okay.

B

Second I'll, second, that motion. Thank you any further discussion, a roll call vote then john.

B

Yes, reagan, yes, karen, yes, dave, aye, rich, yes, martin approved dan. Yes,.

B

And do we need heinz, no okay, sorry heinz you're an alternate tonight, uh chair boats, eye.

B

So that takes care of those and if we could do 160 court straight now. Oh sorry, before we before.

A

We move on. I just wanted to compliment the people at 145, maplewood avenue. I think the lighting that.

B

They did on the maplewood side of that building and the grounds have turned out very well.

B

Good, okay, so 160 quart street. uh Unless I missed something, this is really simple. um Let me just.

C

Get that on the screen properly, so the approved design is shown in the top image here of the.

C

Building, that's currently under construction four-story building on court street at 160.

C

This was the design for the the staircase between the building and the feaster building, so this is.

C

The side that faces the feaster owned by the portsmouth housing authority and there was a.

C

Design feature of the stairs that would be pvc lattice.

C

Horizontal and vertical lattice, rather than diagonal, be installed underneath that staircase.

C

And they are requesting, presumably for cost-saving reasons uh that that be omitted from the approved.

C

Design and they're going to they're going to, I guess, move some landscaping into that space.

C

As a more cost effective, perhaps alternative.

C

That was what I saw.

C

Questions concerns comments. Okay, let me make a motion.

D

Somebody want to make a motion motion to approve, as presented.

B

Second, thank you. Rich um roll call vote john.

B

Yes, karen, yes, dan, sorry dave, hi, rich, yes, martin fruit! Thank you. Cheer bow tie good, okay,.

B

That zips us right along to the petition by stephen p and kathy ann henson owners for a.

B

Property located at zero maplewood avenue, where information is requested to allow the construction.

B

Of a new single-family residence with attached garage on a vacant lot as per plans on the file.

B

In the planning department said, property is shown on assessor map 141 as lot 3.

B

And lies within the general residence, a and historic districts who is here to present.

G

Good evening my name is michael keane, I'm the architect for the project.

G

Mike brown is with us tonight, he's going to be the builder and developer.

G

And steve henson is here also welcome. Thank you. As the petition reads, we are proposing to.

G

Build a new single-family dwelling with an attached garage all new construction.

G

On a vacant lot, the lots bounded by maplewood avenue, prospect street and north school street.

G

Each of the three sides in this elevation um basically we're looking at the view from prospect.

G

Street here so we've turned the house not front on maplewood avenue, but on prospect street because of.

G

The existing slopes and contours on the site, as it slopes from the uh southwest to the northeast.

G

High in the southwest low and northeast we've been through several workshops. As you know,.

G

The changes that you see on this elevation from the previous workshops are that we've.

G

Realigned, the windows in the front elevation so everything's symmetrical.

G

Around the front I mean around the uh around the center window. We slid the entrance slightly to.

G

The left to give us a little bit more room between the entrance and the corner board.

G

And in this elevation we are showing a new roof hood design that we hadn't previously shown.

G

In in the workshops, uh our preference is to build this entrance. There are some zoning questions that.

G

May be lingering out there so later in the set, we will show you the original design, um also as an.

G

Alternate if we could get that either approved, or at least get some comments back on that we intend.

G

As we go through the set that there are more notes on here, but we intend to cloud the building.

G

With wood glabbards, the trim we're showing is all pvc which we painted in the field. All the.

G

Vents and downspouts uh metal, gutters and all that will be painted in the field to match their.

G

Backgrounds, so, even though, as uh commissioner adams pointed out last time, it looks like we.

G

Have corner boards running down through our brick foundation? Those were intended to show locations.

G

Of the downspouts, but those will be painted out to match the brick as they as they move below.

G

The water table trim there. We have two sections of the building that will be clad with wood shingles.

G

That's the lower section of the garage at the north school street side on the far right and the.

G

Connecting element between the attached garage and the main house, we intend to have a four-inch brick.

G

Veneer on the foundations on the prospect street maplewood avenue side and, as you view, the project.

G

Looking back to the west from maplewood avenue, everything else, we think is fairly low profile.

G

Or not visible from the street, so we intend to go back to a concrete finish in those locations.

G

Asphalt shingles for the roof and we're showing a center brick chimney. That's a a faux chimney.

G

And we intend to do a thin brick veneer for that and the bricks will all be a more an old port.

G

We go to elevation, two we'll see the view from maplewood avenue, and here you see the.

G

Sloping uh from the from the right to the left as we come down through, so you see a daylight.

G

Basement that we've got for a part portion of the building here, I did neglect to mention that.

G

We are planning on using a granite stoop and granite steps at the front entrance. That's.

G

Noted here, so that's what reminds me of that and and metal railings around that entrance way. There.

G

Previous previous designs had a large gable on the back section that we see here with the hip roof.

G

But a large gable there, I think one or two work sessions ago. We changed that to a hip roof and.

G

And reduced the profile there in this elevation we see two locations for mechanical equipment.

G

Next to the main house and at the back side of the garage, the white lines that I've got around those.

G

Indicate that those will be screened, but they didn't show the screening in in this elevation. The.

G

Screening material is shown on on sheet 11 uh 12 when we get there. If we can move to the next.

G

One nick and then this is the view from north school street. We've stepped down the third bay.

G

Of the garage to be a one-story element, we've uh reduced it in footprints, so it looks like it's a.

G

Smaller add-on section to uh what may have been a carriage house in a previous iteration, the uh the.

G

Rock retaining wall to the far right on this is a uh there's. A patio we've got intended um that side.

G

Of the building there, as we move on we'll see some 3d renderings. This is from the view from.

G

Prospect street in maplewood avenue corner again. This shows the.

G

The hooded roof over the over the main entrance and we can move on. I think the view from north.

G

School street and prospect street showing a step down above that third bay of the garage.

G

And we can move again. This is the view. The left-hand side is the north school street.

G

Elevation from approximately our property line and the right hand, elevation is the maplewood avenue.

G

View from the crossing at people, our property line, adjacent with the old franklin school.

G

These are the two entrance elements. The one on the right is the one that we prefer.

G

uh We've got some questions as to how that roof will be.

G

Classified from a zoning standpoint and whether or not that puts us into jeopardy for the front.

G

Yard setback, um which again, that is our preference, uh if that doesn't work from a zoning standpoint,.

G

We would probably build the second uh more simple and tablature around changes we made.

G

To that simple entire butcher, that we'd seen in the last time was that we've beefed up the.

G

The the top element, the top of the entablature, with a larger crown mold we've added some.

G

Bed, mold in through there and increased the height of the freeze across the top.

C

I don't think you're going to have an issue with the zoning with that projection. That's great.

G

These are some of the uh exterior elements of section.

G

Typical section, through the wall of the house, showing the brick veneer at the at.

G

The foundation wood clobbers running up through pvc, water table and trim.

G

We did add a bed mold here also at the top of the freeze, where this freeze meets the soffit.

G

The the top window detail in the center shows a cross head detail a little bit more detailed.

G

On the house that we plan on using, um whereas at the garage we're just going to use a simple flat.

G

Stock casing around the um roof trim detail. We revised the return on um on the gutter on.

G

The left hand side of that detail. Originally, that was truncated off and it looked like it was uh it.

G

Looked truncated so we've extended that return a little bit and then returned the the gutter.

G

Profile around back to the house and again this shows the added bed mold at the top of the freezer.

G

These are the basically the general floor plans. Maplewood avenue is to the top of the sheet.

G

Prospect is to the left of the sheet, and north school street is to the bottom of the sheet.

G

The right hand, side is the first floor plan, left hand side being the second floor plan.

G

Black sheet is the site plan, so that shows it again in that orientation.

G

We are taking advantage of existing building setback, exemptions to be able.

G

To move the building closer to prospect street, as we had talked about in the.

G

In the work sessions, and also we take advantage of that on our school street slightly to be able.

G

To slide the garage back off of that property, so we have a primary building and secondary building.

G

These are the details of some of the finishes that we've got planned.

G

The barn lights, the metal railings at the front entrance the asphalt roof shingles, the.

G

Front door, which is a fiberglass door in a wood tone painted doors at the at the patio.

G

And at the connecting link, the garage door, we intend to have a metal insulated door with a.

G

Composite wood veneer over the front of that we are proposing a pvc fence for the hvac equipment.

G

We are proposing a that detailed bracket on the lower right hand. Side is a similar bracket.

G

Design that we're looking at doing, we probably have that custom made locally in dover and then.

G

We're showing the mutton designs for the anderson 400 windows that we're planning three quarter inch.

G

Muttons full divided lights with the spacers in between the windows. I think that completes it.

B

Thank you. Are there any questions.

B

Comments karen, thank you for the challenge. I have a comment. If you hear me there. Yes, john.

B

I'm gonna have karen, beat you to it, so we'll have karen speak and then we'll go right to you.

A

Thank you for the chimney. um What is the the steps? The material for the front steps granite, granite.

G

Granite stoop and steps yep and then there'll be a granite step actually leading up to a wood deck at.

G

The at the breezeway entrance except john, um so I have some comments. I just want to say that.

H

I appreciate mr keenan what you have done with the with the gutters in particular, uh wrapping.

H

Around the return mitering those gutters, um they look very much like a crown molding.

H

That's that's really uh a fine detail. I don't think there's really anybody out there in the.

H

Carpentry world anymore, that can miter uh a crown molding on the rake into anything.

H

So I can see why you did that. I appreciate your brick veneers and I appreciate your hip.

H

Roof over the front door, I would prefer that and uh in general at this point.

H

I'm saying that um I think our work sessions have been productive and I am fully of approval in what.

H

I'm looking at right now. Thank you. Thank you, john any other comments or questions. Martin.

D

Picking up on what uh karen had asked about the stoop, you said it's going to be granite steps.

D

Up to a wood right right now, part of my problem is that the stoop looks like a concrete block.

D

And I'm not sure how your detailing is is the landing one big granite slab.

G

No, I don't believe it will be, I believe, it'll probably be granite walls and then a granite.

G

Slab across the top, so it wouldn't be- it wouldn't be one three foot by six foot by thirty inch deep.

G

Pieces: okay, I'm just you have such a beautiful entrance and I just wanna. I just hope that.

D

You know you detail that properly, along with the railing, because I don't see any railing uh product.

D

Presented there's there's a photo of a similar railing on sheet 11 sheet 12.

G

And I hope I didn't misspeak the front entrance is all granite. The granite leading up to a wood.

G

Deck is the um the breezeway connector between the garage and the house. Okay, so all right.

D

Yeah, I still don't see it, I'm it's far left on sheet 12.. It looks like it looks like the deck.

B

You have to zoom in oh okay, okay, under the light; okay, all right um and just one other thing.

D

You're going to paint the gutter you're going to paint the downspout as it transitions from.

D

The trim past the foundation, that's what I'm proposing yet. Okay, I did was that some I.

D

I've never seen that it wasn't something that was brought up other than the graphically. We were.

G

Showing it looked like corner boards running down, but again I was just trying to show the locations of the downstairs. Okay, I just to me, I've never seen it so to me it would look odd, but.

D

I'll leave it at that we're happy to not do it if it's your pro, if it's the commission's.

G

Preference not to do it. I wouldn't see why you would do it as so. Is there any martin? Could I.

B

Just clarify what you're saying so: you're you're questioning the part from that just goes down the.

B

Brick, where they said they would paint it brick, color you're, not questioning the part above.

D

What they're going to do is you're going to paint it white as as the background trim is white.

D

And then, when it goes to the foundation you're going to paint it red at the bottom.

D

Of the water table to the right, it's it's not a make or break. I just wouldn't do it.

D

I just never seen it and I think it would look odd and you know you've done everything.

D

We've asked you to done it's a wonderful project and- and you have my full support.

B

Anybody else dude, can I I'll just.

E

Chime in and maybe um ease martin's concerns that my house was painted that way.

E

But not uh by any particular design, that's just the way the painters did it and I have lots of.

E

Trim with different colors and they painted the stone, spouts all different colors. But it seems to.

E

Work it fits in, um and so I'm not concerned about it at all. Okay you'll have to send me a picture.

B

Yes, rich, um yes, I'd like to also ease martin's concerns. I actually.

I

Paint um exterior in the historic district and all the houses I've painted.

I

We do that once we get to we match um if there's any sort of.

I

Vent or any sort of you know downspout we would patch match where it would change. Color, okay,.

D

No objections, dave adams, any I want to thank you very much for the effort that you put into.

J

This thing um I I I hope we were helpful. um You certainly behaved like you were listening and and.

J

Viewed what we were doing as uh the thing you needed to do uh everything as far as balance.

J

uh The of the fenestration and the massing that you've taken such care with I'm I'm really really.

J

Very pleased um I also like martin, I don't have a make or break my comment about that. That white.

J

Thing on the corner was perfect was just what it was. I I and once you said it, what it was, I'm good.

J

Yes, uh in the day, back in the day, painting highly painted victorian buildings, we used to section the.

J

Paint job right across the downspouts and elements as it lined up with different elements on the.

J

Building this, on the other hand, is not a highly decorated building, where a line that is otherwise.

J

Perfectly understandable, a white downspout would interfere with the design of the building, so I I.

J

Personally, don't feel like it's it's a big deal here, but but in indeed it's a thing that.

J

Does happen on highly painted houses, painters painters have their own view of the world and.

J

And and see these things as being a requirement um anyway, uh I'm very pleased with this. I, the.

J

Only thing that I can say- and this probably is an inappropriate thing to say, but but I in reviewing.

J

The neighborhood a couple of times, I've always thought of this as a neighborhood of transition.

J

But I kind of I kind of think I missed the point. I believe that there's a transition, but I believe.

J

It's just a teeny bit further from town than this building and I guess in hindsight I sort of wished.

J

We'd tried to steer you a little bit more into the federal period than with this transitional late.

J

Greek revival, but it's a beautiful damn thing: you've done a wonderful job, I'm clearly going to.

J

Vote for this happily, thank you for your comments and thank you for your help. During the work.

G

Sessions, they were very helpful thanks any other questions or comments. My only stipulation, if I can.

B

Make one at this point is that I don't think there's enough information on the railing. The.

B

Wrought iron railing: we don't have any information on how it's finished and you know does it have.

B

Curves or whatever, so if you could bring that back with a little more detail when that's ready.

B

And lastly, for the investment that you're making in this house, I really think you should consider.

B

A solid wood door you're right close to prospect street. It's your main welcome to the world you're.

B

In the heart of a very wooden historic district, I think, on that one front door. If we put some.

B

Consideration to a authentic, solid wood door that would really crown the rest of the project. We have.

G

Considered that seriously, um our concern is that, because there is no full porch roof over that and.

G

We are so close to the street that that's fairly well exposed to the elements. If we want something.

G

That's going to be durable and look good for for extended period time without a lot of maintenance.

G

If possible, our preference is for the fiberglass door. Choose solid english oak you'll do well.

B

Okay, I'm going to open this to the public. If anyone would like to comment on this project.

B

Anybody on zoom.

B

Working on it, okay, I'll just chime in and say I agree with margo's comment about the door material.

E

Actually, I do have a quick question as as we're looking at this image.

E

uh What is the material of the the side, lights and transom.

G

That would be the fiberglass also to match the door.

E

Think, um as margo pointed out it would it it's right up on the street, it's very.

E

Visible, um I would love to see all of that beautiful work being done in wood.

B

Thank you reagan. Nobody has their hand up that's in the waiting room. If somebody would like to.

C

Speak to to this application, please raise your hand and then I can let you into the meeting.

C

I'm not seeing any okay, we will close the public hearing and I await a motion.

H

Well, if I could, I would move that we approve this application as presented.

H

Thank you for the pain, the down boats being up to the owner.

C

Okay, so that that's a stipulation, john, that they would have the option.

C

To paint the paint or not paint the uh downspouts, wonder what I mean between you.

H

And I and everybody else: that's listening, we're not supposed to have any purview over painted.

H

What color and he could paint it purple. I don't know.

H

So I I don't even think the discussion is worth, um including so I'll just say, um approve it as.

H

Presented john with or without stipulation on the railings, coming back with more detail for.

C

Admin approval, admin, approval; okay, I'm sorry! Yes, that should be included. Thank you. So one.

C

Stipulation that the the railing system for the front door come back for administrative approval.

J

I'll second, that motion thank you dave any further discussion.

B

John, could we have findings of fact, please.

H

um I'm afraid someone else is going to have to give some findings of facts. I'm very sorry. Okay,.

C

At the bottom of that page, there are the paintings effect on that page. Yeah bottom of that page.

J

All right and maintaining this, I feel that this building's design maintains.

J

The special character of the district and compliments and enhances the architectural value.

J

Of the neighborhood, thank you. Roll call vote then reagan. Thank you thanks richard yes, john. uh Yes,.

B

Martin approved dan; yes, karen, yes, dave, aye, rich, yes, chair votes. I thank you very much.

J

Thank you. Thank you all for your time,.

B

Okay, for all your time, thank you. Yeah you're, welcome.

B

Next item on the agenda is a petition of the national society of colonial dames.

B

Owner for a property located at zero market street, the ore house, where information is.

B

Requested to allow the replacement of rooftop mechanical equipment, restaurant kitchen, vents.

B

And renovation to an existing structure, replace the existing roof rubber roof membrane. As for.

B

Plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 118.

B

As lot 5 and lies within the character district, 4, downtown overlay, civic and historic districts.

B

Who's here to present good evening, carla goodnight from cj, architects.

K

And I also have david calkins here with me: the contractor.

K

What we would like to accomplish here is to replace the outdated.

K

Kitchen equipment uh currently on the roof of the ore house, restaurant and.

K

With more state of the art equipment, and if you would look, this would also involve replacing the.

K

Rubber roof membrane and the um sealing construct the the roof construction is, is undersized.

K

uh In general for code requirements, so that will need to be replaced as well.

K

If you look at.

K

2.0, you can see that their current roof equipment will be removed.

K

uh And two pieces of it will be removed and roughly two pieces will be replaced. So um if.

K

They were both of the same age. It would almost be replacing one with another 3.0.

K

Shows the a different viewpoint, a vantage point of the two coming off and we will also be removing a.

K

Vent from the side so we'll actually be improving on that elevation.

K

And then the equipment proposed the two pieces of equipment proposed are.

K

Dimensioned and clarified on 4.0. So if you have a kind of a short presentation.

K

Of equipment being removed and equipment being replaced, the two pieces in question.

K

If anybody has any questions, I'd be happy to do my best to or have david answer for you.

B

John or reagan did you have any questions.

E

um I guess my only question is about screening um to see if this would be. I I remember, reading in.

E

There that the fence is not to be touched, but um I'm not sure that that fence is.

E

Adequate to really screen it, especially from this view, so I don't know if there was any plan.

E

Since we're trying to be consistent about asking all mechanicals to be screened to.

E

To provide any screening.

H

Well, I would also like to say I mean just from looking at.

H

The last picture he's presented, I'm not sure what the number is, but the fence appears to be hanging.

H

Outward in the middle, it appears to be bowing towards the sidewalk. Obviously, it's going to.

H

Need some work if the roof is going to come off, that fence is going to come off.

H

Because they have to guarantee that roof is not going to leak and, as carla said, it's going to have.

H

Structural work done to it also, so um I would just be concerned that the fence be high enough.

H

So that people walking down the sidewalk would not be seeing these units, I think we have to be.

H

Careful on screening the units themselves, because that would be awkward to have some screening right.

H

In the middle of the roof- and I believe also, we have a letter um from the colonial dames, not.

H

Wanting anything above 45 inches or something like that, I think so that's my comment on the fence.

K

Well, yes, you're correct in referring to the cover letter by dtc lawyers.

K

Which does specifically stipulate that there is no authorization to proceed with any uh replacing.

K

Renovating or otherwise improving the existing fence along market street on the property. This.

K

Was a stipulation of the owner and discussing with the tenant? The fence is mounted on a little bit of.

K

A curb so they'll be able to do the rubber roof um and the structural repairs. I believe, without.

K

Without impacting that fencing area, so I believe, that's you know what they had decided. The owner.

K

And tenant in their collaboration and it's memorialized by the uh attorney so martin leave.

D

Why doesn't your client want this to be screened and fenced appropriately.

K

I actually do not know um because the uh client, uh the um owner of the building.

K

And the tenant of the ore house are really um conveying these wishes uh via the legal counsel.

K

So we are only apprised of of those of the decisions they reached by by the legal.

K

Legal teams, so is there anyone that could speak uh on behalf of the clients and answer my question.

D

Here sure, maybe someone from the public, I I'm not sure if there's any uh there's, no one in our.

K

Group right now that can really speak to the um the uh the the the uh creation of these terms.

K

I guess uh yeah it's just. I don't get that because right now this is an eyesore.

D

It's across from one of the most uh priced historic pieces of architecture in our city.

D

We typically ask for mechanical equipment to be screened.

D

And why that stipulation would be presented is, is mind-boggling, so I I don't know.

K

I would only be guessing you know. If I you know, I don't want to put you on the spot.

K

Yeah, I could, I suggest if there are any further questions of carla with regard to the project and.

B

Then um we could address any other questions in the public might be able to answer karen. Did you.

B

Want to yeah um it's great that you're going from three vents to two, uh but I am curious. Are the.

A

Locations of the two uh that will be coming back in the same location. uh If you look at page.

A

Right here 2.0, I believe.

C

I don't have it: oh it's on the screen. uh 2.0, you can see, that's where they, the x's, are and then.

K

The other two are okay: okay, right, yep; okay, I see that and then the the approximate size of the new.

A

Vents coming in compared to the the two that are going out. Are they similar in size very similar.

A

They're very similar they're, just different shapes they're, not exactly.

B

uh John or reagan any other questions for carla.

H

No they're they're on a curb, and for those that don't know it, a curved is actually a.

H

Structural element usually made out of two by tens or twelves, or something that.

H

Gives a level base for the fans to be mounted on so it elevates.

H

Them off the roof that that's true and on 4.0, this this diagram is, is including the curb.

K

On that 16 inches is the curb on ef1 and.

K

It's not dimensioned on b, but it's less than that. It's just shown yeah, but that's that below the.

K

Below the 1.75 flange um is the would be the curb for that unit.

H

um So there again I'm going with what martin was saying. I I'm not going to be outraged at.

H

Why I'm not wondering why I don't want to cause any trouble with the dames defense.

H

Needs to be replaced and I'm not sure how much structural ideas that you have an experience. But.

H

That fence is going to have to be taken off anyway, even if it's set to one side and put back on.

H

So it looks exactly like it is now, but even when it's mounted on a curb you don't know what the.

H

Structural work's going to be the timbers, might be bigger two by tens or twelves or whatever. You know.

H

What I'm saying that the size of the structural roof rafter so to speak, will be probably larger.

H

And somehow or another they're going to interfere with that curve, it's not going to be.

H

That's my comments. Thank you. Thank you. um Could I ask that if.

E

In our approval of this, could we stipulate that we, or at least express that.

E

We would like the fence replaced if not in kind than in a you know, an appropriate design that.

E

Could become that could come back to us because um because we would like this properly screened.

B

Thank you reagan, um so I'm going to take my comments a little further and say that the.

B

Screening should be on two sides. We have been very explicit in the past year year and a half.

B

That all mechanicals be screened in a way that the neighbors, the public, are not seeing these and.

B

We're talking about mechanical small hvac and condensers in private homes, you know screened.

B

On three sides this is very prominent, it's very public, very large, and I think that we would be.

B

Not following our own guidelines, if we didn't require that this be screened,.

A

On two sides: the side of market street and the side uh where the walkway goes down, because.

B

People are going to be walking right past those units as they do today. So I I think, that's.

B

Personally, I think that it's a non-starter if we don't see at least two sides worth of screening.

B

So unless there any other questions or parliament chairman further yes dave, please um a couple of.

J

Questions for the applicant, if you don't mind um you say: you're, removing the vent on the side.

A

That's set chaotically in the brickwork. What are you going to do about the brickwork, the brickwork.

K

Will be replaced with water struck and a very similar mortar mix to what we're already using.

K

On 205 and coarsed in yes, um you have a collection of other appliances in the far corner. What I call.

J

The right hand rear corner as you stand on the market street. um So what happens to that stuff.

K

The ones on the surface of the roof- yes, the ones on the surface of the roof- are depicted also on.

K

2.0, I believe, as in a light, light color off to the left, so everything that's, there stays other.

K

Than those pieces we've called out, okay, um you say you're going to change to restructure the roof is.

J

That going to make it out of larger pieces of wood- yes, they'll have to be reinstalled yeah, so that.

J

Means that the pieces of wood will grow larger, probably down into the ceiling, I believe down.

J

um The curves that you show in your drawings are one of them. Has the dimension of 16 inch.

J

On it, yes, the curbs that exist now, I think, are shy of that by some bit.

K

Right I'd say more like, like a foot shy of that, I'm assuming the units are about the same size.

J

And so that would suggest that the units once done on the new roof, which is going to be enlarged down.

J

But not up, but the units themselves are going to be setting another foot taller and and.

J

That they're in so they're going to be sitting a foot taller. I think they're going to have more.

J

Of a impact on the street than than what we've got now, I believe, if you look at 3.0.

K

The you can see the larger of the units and again it's influenced by the slope as well like this as.

K

It slopes down away from the fencing um it becomes lower, but if you look at where they are now.

K

um It is roughly the new units would be roughly at this height of the fence. I could you know.

K

Get that actual dimension? Okay! Thank you very much all right. Okay, yes, martin.

D

Maybe at this point I I can't support this support, this application, as it's being presented.

D

Because it's it's not addressing the main concerns of of screening, maybe maybe.

D

uh We continue with this. That's just that's just my thought. Well that that would be that.

K

Would be fine and then we can certainly pass your comments on to dtc, which they will now have seen.

K

Your thoughts on that, as you know, being a you know something that isn't a non-negotiable piece.

K

So um you know, perhaps uh the uh legal counsels of the parties involved can.

K

See where your opinion is, and we can move forward if we continue is kind of yeah does.

D

That sound good, obviously you can do that. I I just want to ask: can I ask a question.

C

I just have a question for the applicant, which is obviously either the owner or the.

C

The person running the restaurant- that's presumably directly impacted by any continuance.

C

If it was super time sensitive, which things usually are anyway- and these folks up here.

C

Agree to it, you you probably could get back even next week if we had within 48 hours a solution.

C

To the screening, which is a possibility, I mean I think we could fit it on next week's agenda if, if.

C

The applicant and the team out there, whoever you guys, are, can come to an agreement on the screening.

C

And submit something by friday: we can get it out to these folks and get it on the website.

C

And have a meeting next week, if you need more time, because there's too many moving parts.

C

And we'll see you next month and I guess somebody else brought up the option that we could.

K

Be at a stipulation that requires us to come back with a screening.

K

Alternative is that not an acceptable framework as well really go together? I I I'm not going to.

A

Be for these folks, but that that's just throwing it out there and looking at it all at once.

B

I don't think it would be wise to separate these things, because.

B

Because the applicants already dug their heels in over the issue well, also, once you.

B

Start doing the work, if you you can't undo it if your screening is not agreed upon your.

B

Up creek, so what I'm going to suggest is carl, unless there's anything else, you'd like to say.

B

We'll open this up to the public, okay and uh see what we get there great. Thank you. Thank you. Carla.

B

Anybody from the public wish to speak with regard to this application.

C

And raise your hand if you're online go ahead, sir, you could introduce yourself please. Yes, my name is.

I

Chris hawkins, I'm the guy who wrote the letter from dtc lawyers and we support the application.

I

As presented tonight, I just want to suggest that the issue of the fence we've taken.

I

We take your comments on board. We hear you, it is of extreme importance to the danes to maintain the.

I

View from the moffat lighthouse to the water, they consider that part of their historic mission so.

I

That is why this issue is is of sensitivity to the dames.

I

That being said, we hear you and I'll, be speaking with the applicant's attorney further.

I

About this and other issues, time is a little bit tough, because the dames is an organization.

I

It's not one person who makes decisions, but we will certainly give this reasonable.

I

Attention and we take all your comments on board. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

B

Any other yes, john, um so your idea of um running the fence and or railing or down the the side.

H

Of the building, I think that's very important too. um We could, um you know, make a continuation.

H

And uh request that the fence not be any higher in the front, because I think that's what I just heard.

H

From the lawyer and um my idea would be to have more of a balustrade type fence or a picket fence,.

H

Per se, maybe a little bit closer together than normal along that side, as you.

H

uh Asked for, but uh I think we do need a continuation okay and I think it should be.

E

Sorry, I was just gonna say I think, that's a good suggestion. John yeah.

B

So um it sounds as if we're going to continue this. The only question is whether we're going to.

B

Continue it to next week or next month,.

B

If we continue it to march 2nd and they get the get something in advance, is that.

B

That works yeah I mean it didn't sound to me like the applicant was going to be able to.

C

Hurt all the cats in 48 hours and get something back here that a month is more realistic. I mean.

C

Right or someone should come back to the mic and restate what they're realistically going.

C

To achieve members of the public, yeah he's the applicant actually co-applicant ray guaranos and.

I

I'll try to gather the cats together in 48 hours, okay, okay, so we continue it for a week.

C

If they would like to do that, and if you're not ready friday it'll get continued uh next week to.

C

March, 2nd, our goal would be to to get it together in the next 48 hours and possibly do a.

I

Offense in light kind, possibly down in mahogany, but to replace the same.

I

That's straight: if we can come to terms with the landlord okay yeah, it's actually 36 hours.

C

That's okay! Okay, thank you! So could I have a motion please to continue this so moved.

B

Thank you and a roll call vote. John, uh yes reagan. Yes,.

B

Karen, yes, dave, hi rich, yes, martin, yes, dan, yes, chair votes, I thank you very much.

B

Okay, public hearings, old business: this is a petition of 64 von maul, llc owner for a property.

B

Located at 64 von street, wherein permission is requested to allow modifications to a previously.

B

Approved plan revisions to the storefront design, as for plans on file in the planning department,.

B

Said property is shown on assessor map 126 as lot 1 and lies within the character district 5.

B

Downtown overlay and historic districts who is here to present.

L

Good evening, I'm steve wilson, I work for hampshire development, I'm also just to clarify briefly.

L

Former owner of the property- and I I guess you've all heard that novocure international biomed.

L

Development company has purchased the building from us and is continuing with the construction.

L

Of it using capture development, my company, as the contractor, so I'm here representing the owner.

L

With, uh as we will throughout the construction period with any minor or major changes that we.

L

Need to make to the to the building in order to not let them pile up to the end. Okay, so tonight.

L

As you'll see from the illustration on the uh board, you have the approved plan on the upper.

L

Panel, which shows on the front first of all, just to get a little housekeeping additional.

L

Housekeeping out of the way, but at the at the final meeting, where we had got our approval.

L

We agreed to reuse the front door that has existed from the margin days. The origins of the building.

L

And replicated to provide two leaves of the same historically occurring door, so the.

L

Plan had not been modified, obviously at that, but we had agreed to do that. So if you look down.

L

At the new elevation, you'll see that there's two 42-inch doors that the one on the right is.

L

The historically occurring door and the one on the left will be the reproduction and that it.

L

Enlarges the door by a foot, the door space, and so it steepens the tapered side, lights.

L

Which in the elevation looks a little bit funny, but in the application it's actually correct. It's.

L

Cl actually closer to the slope of the original uh doorway. So just to make that clear, we made.

L

That change, and that was how it was to be approved unless you have any further input.

L

Secondarily, when we were resizing and sizing the storefronts, we.

L

Sized the panels in the approved drawing it in the largest panel, the lower square section, is.

L

Eight foot six wide and with the height of that area, um it exceeded the manufacturer's ability.

L

To provide that window in one panel, which isn't to say, we couldn't get it from like con air.

L

Or a custom aluminum manufacturer, but in order to keep it consistent with the anderson manufacturer.

L

Of the other windows in the building, we're asking you to approve the lower drawing which.

L

Has those panels being seven feet wide and when you look at it, because I want you to understand.

L

The plan as it's presented, but also it looks like the skirt of those, is a little bit taller. But it's.

L

Really in the illustration, there's a six inch curb landscape curve in front of those, so they'll still.

L

Be thin like the top one it's just sort of in the translation of the drawing. So that's what we're.

L

Here, looking that chain to make that change and really it's to keep the uh manufacturer and the.

L

Muttons and the you know, complexion of the window frames and and parts to be the same.

B

Are there any questions for the applicant.

B

John or reagan.

E

Okay, I don't have any questions, but I.

E

For comment, I just state out there clearly that I can't support um this. I didn't support the change.

E

Of the uh the storefront before last time, and then this just further changes the feel and.

E

The design of the historic original storefront so much um I understand the I understand that.

E

The physical challenges to it, but um I I can't continue to support it.

H

Okay, I would like to say um I would like to say to uh in comment to reagan's.

H

Comment that um the approval has is has been given to the top illustration and.

H

So I can't understand why you wouldn't give your approval to the bottom when you're actually.

H

Cutting up those large pieces of glass into still large pieces, but four on each side.

H

I I feel that it looks much better more evenly balanced and uh I'm fully in favor of this.

E

That's fine, john I've, given my reason why I can't I it changes the design too much so.

B

Any other questions or comments.

B

Okay, then I'll open this to the public. Anyone wishing to speak to this request anybody online.

C

Raise your hand if you'd like to speak.

C

I see none, okay, we'll close the public hearing and I wait a motion.

D

I'm sorry motion to approve is presented I'll suck in that motion. Okay, any further discussion.

B

I will just note that I um also had reagan's concerns with regard.

B

To this storefront, but I think I take john's point of view that.

B

That's gone past so I'll be voting based on what I also feel is a slight improvement.

B

In what I didn't like before,.

B

All right finding effects or that it maintains the special character of the district and.

D

Is consistent with the special and defining character of surrounding properties.

B

Thank you, roll call vote. We will start with karen this time. Approve dave, aye, rich aye.

B

Martin approved dan, yes, reagan. No john! Yes, chair votes! Yes, thank you very much.

L

Thank you. Sorry. I couldn't turn you back reagan, but.

I

Appreciate it? Okay, so we already postponed item a under work sessions, old business. That brings us to.

B

Item b, work session, requested by port harbor land llc owner for property located.

B

At two russell street and zero deer street, two lots wherein permission is requested to allow the.

B

Construction of a new freestanding structure, three to five-story mixed-use buildings, as.

B

For plans on file in the planning department said properties are shown on assessor map 124.

B

As lot 12 map 118 and slot 28 and map 125 as lot 21 and lie within the character district 5.

B

Downtown overlay and historic districts we will be moving down to the table for the work session.

L

B

B

All right so before we get started, I'm going to encourage everybody to be sure.

B

They're speaking into the mics, uh so that everybody can hear us and.

B

Is everybody sitting down? Why don't you introduce your team again and we'll get started.

F

Sure um I'm brooke slocum with sga and to my right is walker, shanklin who's, a design architect, a.

F

Senior designer in the firm and ryan parham international, welcome what do you have for us.

B

Tonight so tonight we're going to kind of take the next step down our road of sketchy, drawings and.

F

Keep them a little sketchy and hopefully we can see if there's likes and dislikes in regards to.

F

The concepts that we're playing with, but we wanted to first step back into I'm going to see where the.

F

Screen is going, but we're going to try and step to where thanks ryan, um we all know the concept. The.

F

Massing diagrams, obviously we the the point where we wanted to break them into pieces and create.

F

More which he do you want it sorry about it. Tell me next one six six, so this one this one here so.

F

This is that scenario again we're just continuing down. We understand where there's a lot of public.

F

Space but we're also trying to break this large group of masses into much smaller pieces.

F

As part of the conversation, I think with you all, we wanted to make sure on page seven that.

F

We understood what the town, how the town is made up of parts. You know we have all we all discussed.

F

The base the middle and the top and how that's broken out. So we took a look at one of your more.

F

Iconic corners, whether it's we could do it on almost any street. You have but understand that.

F

There's a variety in base height there's a middle of the building that has sometimes three sometimes.

F

Four, sometimes you know two build two windows or or or levels and then there's a top. That varies.

F

And we tried to take one that had the most extreme piece on it, but it does help drive the character.

F

Of your town, and yet each building, that's next to each other, has its own character along that path.

F

So this is where we're thinking we want to continue to develop that and, as you can see, we're.

F

Going on to the next page, which is eight, which is kind of taking each one of these little.

F

Snippets of the neighborhood and we're we're trying to make them all break break down the.

F

Scale but have a relationship to each other. So as we move through these different parts of the.

F

Block we're looking at a base, a middle and a top, but we don't want the top to be the same.

F

We can potentially shift where the base alignments, but we still want to keep that character going.

F

Across and and then also recognize that on the two ends of this building you're in a much more.

F

Dynamic area and in the middle we want to try and be a little bit more residential or more.

F

Tied to the historic portion of the downtown as we move through it, so that's kind of where.

F

We were going with these facades they're fairly early on in our development, but it's.

F

A rhythm and a path that kind of makes sense so far, but we love to hear your feedback and make.

F

Sure we're going down the right path, so I'm on page 10., um that's helpful um any questions so.

F

Far in regards how we're starting to think about breaking down the facades.

B

Yes, colorful ones yeah. So in that scenario we're starting now to take a look at what materials and.

F

Feel and texture might be like, and what those I think we've we've talked a little bit about.

F

The passageways, how they're interconnecting between the parts of the the old city and the.

F

And ports, portsmouth port port workplace. Thank you, but but what it's like to go north here.

F

And try and make sure that this building encourages and helps that.

F

That flow, but also making sure that when you look down the street, it doesn't.

F

Change the dynamic of how you've been moving through the rest of these these towns so again.

F

These are very sketchy in in a sense where we're going to start refining using some more tools.

F

But you know we do want to make sure that the building to the to on maplewood has a strong.

F

Ger feel it's a commercial building. We want to make sure that it holds the corner. It.

F

Sits right on the train track, so it has a lot of clinking and so that part of the building.

F

That we're gonna, we'll take a look at a little bit. Deeper, has a has a slightly bit of a jog to it, but.

F

It also helps create the corner on maple, wood and deer and then on the more iconic end, which I think.

F

We all talked about last week is the the very unique residential building could become a very.

F

Cool building that reaches out towards the harbor, with the train tracks and the bridges and all that.

F

Kind of industrial element and those two become your anchor of the site and it dissolves into more.

F

Classical historical architecture, interpretations in towards the middle; that's our concept and then.

F

You know we'll we can take a look when we start going down there, we'll just kind of look at.

F

Page 11 is more where park pork walk places and it's kind of the more the four-story.

F

Office building overlapping with the residential building and.

F

And we have a slope, but because of you know, working with you all, we no longer have that.

F

Plateau that everything sits on the street just kind of finds its way down to the train tracks.

F

There's a slightly less red uh retail edge there, because the building has to sit up high to have.

F

Its thing, so it's going to be more of an edge of the building, but with that walk we try and.

F

Make it a little bit more residential and then the office building will have more opportunity to flow.

F

Out, but it is one of those places where it's more of a passage instead of a retail element, although.

F

There could be, there will be retail in it. You just won't be walking into the retail from that corner.

F

Because the intent is when you get to page 12, that's really the grade that we want to hold this.

F

Building at it kind of makes sense um it's where the main entrance to the condo building is the.

F

Retail would be entered at that level and and then the streets kind of slope away from that point,.

F

um It is interesting and planned, though, that this uh elevation is where the entry to the.

F

Re the residential is going to be, but it's feels like it's part of this continuing facade.

F

Of different buildings and then obviously, we also have the parking um on page 12, which is.

F

Again is that 13 yeah, my eyes are going, but that's a another element, just a pathway. You can.

F

Walk through there, you can we'll have a stair that goes down, but you, you know it's all of the drive.

F

Areas that we're working on and it'll look at it on the back side. We're also trying to make that.

F

A much more pedestrian friendly roadway, even though you're going to be drunk cars, are being.

F

Going the parking garage is is going to feel more like you could walk on it. Cars would just have.

F

To be a lot more, it's a pedestrian, friendly, driveway, um ideally, and then you know we're.

F

We're we thinking about the iconic end, where there could be some more connections to the park across.

F

Green street, um again I'm on 14 and more in keeping with how that feels with the train.

F

Tracks and some of that more industrial element towards the water that we were talking about.

F

You know, there's a there's a lot of buildings we're doing down in on the boston harbor, where.

F

We're expressing some old steel building looks they're modern, which is what this would be, but.

F

It would feel like it's part of an older type of building, even though it's in a modern approach.

F

By expressing some of that structure with the way we're cladding the building.

F

Again and that's something we'd love to hear whether you guys think we're on the right path on.

F

That and conversely, when you hop over to page 16. we're trying to do the same thing along maplewood,.

F

And the train tracks, which is how that similar vocabulary, be kind of an anchor. We still have some.

F

Crafting to do with that piece, but that would be more of an anchor that would tie the other.

F

Piece together, but as it stands out, um it would be. It would be this kind of corner of more of a.

F

Office building of the past to some degree, this helps to step the step. The massing down.

M

As well at that corner, yeah starts to break the break the scale down exactly.

F

And then the next sheet on 17 is is uh kind of what that garage screen would be, and it's really.

F

Covering up two stories of garage, but in reality we just try and make it, and if we can do it right.

F

We'll get planting on it and be kind of a green wall that has parking behind it um and on top.

F

Of that becomes the the private plaza for the condo, so you can kind of see it then be full of.

F

Greenery kind of flowing down to the train tracks. It potentially provide additional articulation for.

M

Those openings to make it feel like it's part of the fabric of the buildings above exactly.

F

And then the page, 16 or 18 18 is a little a little bit skewed, but it really is trying to figure out.

F

What does that end piece feel like if it does come around and become? You know tied to the tracks, but.

F

Also abandoning for the building- um and you know we- you know we keep going um maple, wood and deer.

F

On page 20 is more how that one piece overlaps and connects and creates a kind of an entry.

F

On deer, street and and and maple wood, but also allows the building to wrap back. And then the.

F

Neighborhood continues to walk down deer street or walk up deer street, and the same goes for.

F

uh 21, where we're basically trying to show that other edge of the the residential building kind of.

F

Finding its way up into the more uh neighborhoody buildings as we reach the top of deer and.

F

And russell um and then kind of I think 22- is the iconic shot. You know a small scale.

F

But your flat iron to some degree it's a pure half oval. um That then starts trying to figure.

F

Out how to take this geometry of the site and make it work? It's such a wild little piece of.

F

Real estate, I mean it's going to be a unique, and, ideally you know the ground floor. Would.

F

Be like a restaurant that can oversee and then the residential pieces above.

F

I'm not saying that it is a restaurant. Don't get me wrong right.

F

um Then we have some precedent again. We think we've looked at these last time. I don't think.

F

We changed too much in here, but these are kind of where we're thinking that that vocabulary.

F

Works and, and always keeping in mind what the history of the town is um in the back of.

F

Our mind every time- and you know we're working with tynebond and and their landscape group to.

F

Craft those spaces that are public that we think are you know they can be. Some of them are going.

F

To be small, some are going to be open to the to deer and russell. Some could be that long.

F

Driveway in the back, you know really making sure that those pieces feel like they're part of this.

F

Unique fabric that is, you, know, a huge part of uh portsmouth um and then you know I'm on 25 now.

F

Just those interacting spaces, they're, either public or private they've, become very important.

F

For how those buildings are going to play off each other- and I think that's kind of it.

F

So let me hear your thoughts well, you guys have seen it all. So what we're trying to do is see if.

F

We're on the right path and again I'd love to hear some more feedback in regards to our thoughts of.

F

How we're trying to tighten those two edges and then let the rest of the buildings kind of fall.

F

In between, so thank you entertain people's initial thoughts, reactions aaron, I like it.

A

um I like the direction you're going and I think it's it's great how you have the flat iron section.

A

And then on the maple wood you you've tied in a lot of the same elements, so it matches we'll get.

F

There, though, I'm not, I don't think maplewood's there yet yeah, but I I don't want to go with.

A

um It is a very unusual lot. I've seen this in so many uh iterations over the years. This is by far.

A

The best and a lot of it has to do with the fact that you broke it down.

A

Into the multiple buildings, instead of the one giant building those throughways in the middle.

A

With the three buildings is just a huge benefit yeah, if we had our way.

F

There'd be dead ends and you guys wouldn't have it, but you guys made us do it. Yeah.

A

It really is it's just it's actually a much better building now, so we're very happy.

H

um So I have a comment: if you hear me: yes, john.

H

Oh okay, um I agree with karen, especially on the so-called flatiron building.

H

I'm I'm really wondering what that building is on on the context. Photos.

H

Where is that yeah yeah? That's downtown, that's boston! Yeah! It's a recently built hotel, boston, the.

C

Revere hotel, I think, yeah that sounds right. Yeah yeah, not as nice as the one. That's in portsmouth.

H

No, so you know that's my comment on that building. I like the way you're going and I like the fact.

H

That you can uh include modern industrial iron. Look to it! We've we've seen this.

H

This same location in many iterations, as karen said, and it is a difficult one. I would also like.

H

To give you some positive feedback on your use of the bays within the columns of the building.

H

This is something reminds me of a building in chicago that was built in the 1890 or something.

H

It was you know, one of the first skyscrapers I hate to say the word skyscraper, because somebody's.

H

Been hybrid enforcement, but I mean I like that um feeling and it's different. We haven't seen that.

H

With bay window over bay window over bay window, I would only encourage you to not.

H

Use that two-story base all the time on that condo building and maybe bring those bays down.

H

Another you know so that you have four stories of bay. That's my opinion on that. I just would like.

H

You to break up the bases a little bit more and the only other comment is on the angled portion.

H

Of the of the condo building, maybe we should give them an a b and c I don't know, but there's.

H

An angle portion on that conduit- I don't know if nick can go to it. Where am I going to find that.

H

Yeah, um so it's it kind of follows the sidewalk going. I mean.

H

Follows the cars going in, but um I think it's because of its central location and where it sits.

H

That if there was some way of exaggerating the uh cornice on them, sure I'm not sure.

H

Where you're sitting as far as the height uh goes, um but um if you could.

H

You know give that more importance. um I I think it would really help the building up and.

H

Otherwise, that's it for me, yeah, it's a it's a great point. We we lowered the.

F

Just to respond to both, I think, the cornicing and all the detailing as we get to the top.

F

Is something that we're going to want to make sure we're clear on? And we know that there are.

F

Some opportunities to go beyond the height limit, with a cornice or a terrace, or not a terrace, but a.

F

Parapet so we want to kind of play with that, make sure we're not uh going over um in regards to the.

F

Two store base. I think we did lower it on the two end buildings, but it would we're we need.

F

To craft, I agree with you a better entrance on that front on the second building in which we're.

F

Considering the entry that whole thing needs to be kind of more of the centerpiece of that.

F

Whole center condo building and the other ones need to be played with a little bit more. But.

F

I I appreciate it, especially if you reference background studies that we did previously showing.

M

That kind of main articulated entrance, I think, is definitely definitely important to consider.

H

I'm wondering also yet but the um of the building on faces market street. I don't know.

H

If we're going to call it the flat iron end or something, but I mean that to me that end.

H

On the roof really cries out for something like a flagpole to me, it would be a very.

H

Proud flagpole at that location, if you let us just another 100 feet, we'll do it.

F

Just a comment yeah, I would like to make a comment just on the process.

N

That you have employed- which I think has helped the committee tremendously.

N

In understanding the project, typically, what we frequently see even in large projects like this.

N

The I should take will present us with fake dick complete and then our responses to that is well.

N

What's the math saying and then some people get into the details and it becomes chaos.

N

I think we just recently noticed that with a project that is not too far away from where.

N

Yours is so I just want to commend you, the process that you have employed and I think.

N

Any good architectural firm would actually employ that process where you start off with the massing.

N

First, so that we don't you, don't obfuscute our focus and then you know frequently some people.

N

Will talk about massing, some people will talk about details and it's confusing. You have really.

N

Set a strategy that we actually advise architects to follow on certain large projects which.

N

You have done, but it's rare, that anybody will actually do that and I just want to commend you.

N

For abiding by that, which makes our tasks a lot easier, there's a great team behind this so far.

F

Appreciate it uh yes, and I like to I agree with hindsight- I like the fact that.

D

You did this little study of our market square and the athenaeum and, and you you kind of soaked in.

D

Some of the richness of our environment, the scale and the language, my big problem is, and I I'm going.

D

To get closer to them, I don't think I can get over the inauthentic quality of what you're proposing.

D

Now, what you're showing is is a little village of buildings and really it's only three buildings.

D

I mean you're not proposing that we have firewalls through every section of the character, see okay.

D

That is that kind of inauthenticity. I can't you know it breaks my heart to see something like that.

D

For a historic district, because it's it's fake so and you can address it, but let me finish.

D

I would hate for you to do that, because it's a fake vintage that a visitor to the city.

D

You know would look at that and go is this several buildings? Is this three buildings.

D

Is this when was this built? It's got the language and it's got the quality of like.

D

Separate buildings that have been built over time, but in fact it's not it's and to me.

D

You know that kind of inauthenticity is something that I would hate for us to. You know to pursue.

D

Sure um you have a big build, you have three big buildings, don't accept it and do something more.

D

Authentic with that and provide some language that carries throughout the whole, complex uh I'd rather.

D

See that than this sort of like you're trying to stop the eye from just racing through there.

D

I get that and that's great, I think you can do that. You need to pull that off, but I think you.

D

Can do that without being inauthentic and and trying for this faux vintage um yeah? I just I.

D

Like what you did with the russell street building at the beginning, I'd love to see that carried out.

D

Through the rest of the massing of that building, because I like the language you're working with.

D

One of your conclusions for the market street study was that you had a unique top.

D

Right now, this is your tops very slightly to to go with that deception yeah, but.

D

You know I I'd like to see something up top there, that uh you know for this new development.

D

But anyway, I cannot get past this, this notion of inauthenticity and deception so one I agree. 100.

F

With and I think we we're we're going to work because we haven't gone into the building chip.

F

And we know the makeup of these buildings is a lot of smaller units, a lot of smaller spaces.

F

um So and you can see the office building, we're not hiding that that's one building, it's.

F

Got its consistent facade, that's wrapping that building. We give it a little bit of a.

F

Terrace and a tie back to some other stuff, but with these apartments it's very it's not going.

F

To be very difficult and that the design team is going to hold to where those divisions are.

F

And we're going to work our apartments around where those are so it's much like what we do.

F

With some of the repositions we go into towns now, where there's a lot of buildings that were built.

F

At different times, and we got them and tie them together, that's what we're going to end up making.

D

This re-election right, that's a genuine thing that occurs yes and we're going to we're going to we're.

F

Going to design through that, to that point, that's the intent right. We can't make it. We can't put old.

F

Buildings here you already have that across the street we honor that right, but what we're trying.

F

To do is still have a vocabulary, and, and I and I appreciate the point of the the end building.

F

As you can see, we're starting to take that ribbon and carry it in all the way through the different.

F

Layers that we're going to put on the buildings that were kind of the elements of the building.

F

So it is it's a great point and the reason that we have bay windows on the condo and we have the.

F

Strip these horizontals on the on the residential and we keep the vocabulary for the office building.

F

As we're trying to craft through it, we're not trying to hide that they're they're they're, unique.

F

To each other, they're they're they're related to each other in a way that we're trying to.

F

Make sure that that vocabulary carries its way through each one of the three buildings. But we.

F

Are building three buildings, but they need to be broken in a way to make. The town still feel like.

F

It's part of the town, because you have a fabric, that's part of portsmouth, that we don't want to.

F

Negate by just knowing that we could do a big building so we're caught it we're caught right of.

F

Being not not true, because these are new brand new buildings, but we're also trying to make them work.

F

As modern buildings, and if they were, if this was the, if these were all here, we would probably go.

F

In and gut them and make them all tie together for the developer, who wants to renovate them? So that's.

F

Kind of the mindset we're going after if we're, if we're successful, you won't care whether they're.

F

New or not, ideally, but we do want to make sure that we're breaking them in a way that makes sense.

F

Visually anything bigger than four what I think we have four different bays or three bays each.

F

That you, you start it becomes too big for this neighborhood and the the proof is in.

F

The pudding across the street on deer street and we don't want, I mean that's a hope that that's.

F

The kind of what we're trying to avoid is one big, long, huge facade of a building, but at least.

D

They're, genuine, I mean there's an authenticity about them that that you know I can accept. I.

D

This you know this: just this hurts our district. I know you're trying to you're trying to relate.

D

With a scale, that's that's minor and and to show these smaller buildings, but.

D

To create this patek and village of of different facades on the same building.

D

It's stage work well, the the bad example of that is your port walk place. Building right, we.

F

Know that right we see it. I I recognize there's one or two pieces of episode that work, but it.

F

It's not working right and- and we we I understand- this- is the the kind of the economy that we're in.

F

You know, how do you make it work and not make it look like it's uh a part of disney world.

F

So it's a it's a concern, 100, and I appreciate your your concern there too, because.

F

We do want to make sure that we're wrapping similar details throughout that one building.

F

Each one of the buildings- and you know we're going to have to go back and prove to you that we're not.

F

But if you look at your town, I'm going to go back to the the market street example.

F

It would be hard for me to tell from a distance that that upper building on market square is not.

F

All built at the same time, except in reality, it probably isn't, but it may be, and I've been.

F

Trying to look through it- and it doesn't matter to me right that there are different buildings.

F

But I bet you if I had that as a building, I would have renovated it all as one building.

F

And that's that's the mindset we're going after and maybe it's maybe it's fake, but.

F

You can't do much about going backwards. Let me ask just just a question: are you.

M

Are you reacting to the sheer variety of the different facades that were.

M

Showing on each of these small blocks? Okay, and also the fact that you're you're squaring off.

D

The facades in in a way that they, they kind of step right because you're cr trying to make this.

D

You're trying to make it look like these buildings were built over time over different periods under.

D

Different circumstances: it's a fake history and that's that's what wrenches me to think.

D

That we would do something like that yeah. I think we're very we're very interested in uh making the.

M

Facades and the treatment of three buildings feel more cohesive and not trying to hide the fact that.

M

It's a new building and I think internally we we've been talking about that quite a bit.

M

As to how to establish a few of the successful portions of each of these little pieces of the.

M

Facade and use that to make a cohesive hole and not try to make this feel like.

M

Building 2a building 2b was built in the 70s, and this was built in the 80s. I think we want to be.

M

More cohesive can you can you go to page 24 just for kicks and look at this uh image d? I was just.

C

Going to show you this building, that's on the screen. This is actually one building built at.

C

One time that was built over a hundred years ago that has broken itself down into that same effect.

C

It is an it's a modern interpretation of something that you were, that the history has and you you've.

F

Done in modern building 20 years ago, maybe 10 years ago, I don't know which one it is, but it's.

F

Right on market street, the popovers built the popovers building.

F

You may or may not like that, because that's no different than the faux building that we're.

F

Talking about right now, it's got a couple of different buildings next to it, but I mean.

H

I just stepped in something I'm sorry.

F

But the reason I like that image is that you have a very a 150 year old building right next to a.

F

A 10 year old building and they have a nice vocabulary. They talk to each other.

F

Yeah the lower right of d1, so the one all the way to the right on that image is a is a. Is your old.

F

Building, which is, I think, we photographed again that one there that's it right and- and it's really.

F

Nice, that's that's actually, my favorite building in your town by the way f. um But when you look at.

F

That image, even if you you brought up f those two together, look nice, even though one is much.

F

Older but then the the other two buildings, the popover building, is those are all brand new.

F

But it's a history, that's not too foreign from your town is, as I kind of, and I think.

F

The images that you were just showing of your of your google earth were were very similar in that.

F

It's our it, but then, but then you can have these huge buildings, which is a, I think, a is what.

F

You're looking for right, where it's all one one vocabulary, but it could be broken up, but you have.

F

Plenty of those in town and well I'm not saying they're bad. We always like good architecture.

D

Yeah, but I guess brooks from our standpoint- we're open to either option. I guess we just need to have.

M

You know a little bit of direction going forward, you know, is there a preference one way or the.

M

Other you know across across the committee is: are we going? You know, we've presented this option, but.

M

We're also open to other options at this point. Obviously, okay, you know with the office building. I.

M

Think we accomplished some of what you're talking about you know. So if you go to the present images.

M

In page 23, we incorporated some things that are very similar to what we were looking at in in b.

M

um You know if we had something that had more consistency like d in the center of.

M

The site, but blended between those two is that something that you know might be more palatable.

M

Or are we kind of steering in the wrong direction at that point, um can I say something.

D

I'll, let others speak john yeah john, please get it. You've got to get it other people to speak.

H

This is a one-on-one right now between martin and the architect. I don't like the way this is.

H

Itself, I'm being I don't, I I feel it's very he's spoken very strongly and now I now I'm hearing.

H

The architects wanting to bend the whole project, no, that wasn't the architects. I apologize. Okay,.

B

So yeah, why don't we open it up to other thoughts and opinions? Rich? Did you like um yeah and I'm? I.

I

Mean I'm due to htc, so I'm um you know what I mean I'm trying to I'm learning a lot here absorbing.

I

But I do have a lot of experience. I own a business in the historic district. You know I grew up here.

I

I've seen how the town has changed. I know um you know we've my brother-in-law actually lived in the.

I

Rusty hammer building, um you know that was built as one big building and now it's been broken down.

I

Into several buildings- and I understand martin's point about you know not wearing a crater for.

I

Styling at disney world, where you know it's just a facade, it looks like what it isn't.

I

um But I don't think this looks like what it isn't. um I I understand it looks like.

I

It's broken up, it's better than one big big long. You know the same of um you know just.

I

Just all the same, um like you know, I mean uh like we mentioned the um four walk place.

I

But yeah I mean we don't want to build. I don't know, I'm a conflict because it's always like why.

I

Are we trying to build old buildings? um You know we should always be building modern buildings. We.

I

Don't we're not trying to build history, you know we're trying to preserve the history. We have.

I

But the new stuff we're building- you know, you know I mean like we don't need to build like we built.

I

In the 1800s but yeah this will stop there.

J

I like the idea of building like we did in 1800, because those buildings last a couple.

J

Hundred years and many more investments, don't you know what I'm talking about.

J

Modern buildings are not because of their style, but because of their program I got it. um We can.

J

Build wiser, we can build more efficiently lots of things. I, unlike martin, don't mind.

J

The breaking the pieces up partly because- and I think this is the underlying argument.

J

In trying to have a a group like this controlling or bumping, the architecture around is, is the.

J

Providing a comfortable setting for our historic buildings, which are unique.

J

Virtually in the world virtually in the world um and the way that we've.

J

For a couple of hundred years lived with them with changing horses and buggies and electric cars and.

J

Automobiles and all of the things changing technology changing around us. The way we've.

J

Continued to live in those buildings couple hundred years old is is unique in the world.

J

So providing a setting for those buildings, I think, is a thing that we should take on as our task.

J

I agree modernizing our town so that we can have the modern things that provide for a stimulating.

J

Economy, that's good, but being able to do that with a real sensitivity to the material. That's around.

J

Us that's the art that you are taking on as your task here. Can I say I'm excited about your program.

J

I'm excited about the way that you've demonstrated the way that you've broken things up. I'm.

J

Pleased with the just simply the facets of the buildings that you've shown us.

J

In a time when we could make that all smoothly out of concrete um and you've chosen not to to.

J

Do that I have a couple of issues yep, um I think the glazing has taken over the project.

J

um I'm sensitive to that because I live in the 18th century and and I believe when I see.

J

Like my town, I see it as an 18th century town. That's what I see when I peel the pieces back.

J

It's true: it's not it's a mess of different things, but that's what I see. I think that's some of the.

J

The most precious parts of our community and- and I think, you're overdone that and you've.

J

Said it in a way that very few other buildings in town- and I would say you know I would say mostly.

J

Just a couple of modern buildings uh have this much glazing compared to their just a rough.

J

Number of glazing per square foot of sidewall and don't design a building on the basis of that and.

J

Don't think that that's what I'm asking you to do, but I think the glazing's taken over on the.

J

The uh brussels street and the the the titanic- and um I think it's over the top.

J

I think it's the thing that we shouldn't do. I don't think it's a good thing for our community.

J

What you call the rental, building, the the the oval and yeah? That's what it is. um I I I see.

J

That, as just totally missing the point- and we have very our tradition of architecture- is not.

J

Taking organic shapes like the organic shape of this lot and converted it into buildings.

J

And we we have rectilinear buildings, mostly rectilinear buildings. We have a couple of.

J

Round-Ended buildings on corners special buildings, they usually set their front doorways on that.

J

They have special corners. This is just a corner, a celebration of glass and corning.

J

The other end of the building on maplewood avenue to me, the the office, the part I.

J

That three-story box of glass, that's articulated against the side of the building. I don't think.

J

I've got another building in my mind in my that in our town, that has that kind of articulation.

J

On its first floor or second floor or third floor, and then has this other plate on the fourth floor,.

J

And the base of it just virtually made of glass and glazing bars. I think it's, I think.

J

It's pushing the envelope way too far. I think it's it's a huge mistake just to say, though, I'm.

J

Just one vote and I'm going to keep talking about it. No, I appreciate it, uh you know these are it's.

F

Interesting, you guys are on different parts of the table, but you know um we've always been on.

F

I do find that interesting, so it is, it is one of those things where we're. You know. Obviously,.

F

Building this scale and and as we're you know, our party is trying to make sure that we are.

F

Breaking it up into different buildings, that's a the concept that to be the the canvas in which the.

F

Ideally, uh historic elements of this town are part of, but it's not limiting you.

F

um I I I I do recognize that there's a lot of glass in the concept that we're working.

F

On but again that is its modern approach and we, if, if it turns out that that's going to.

F

End up being too much glass for this town, then you know it's something: we're happy to.

F

To to visit, but it it what's what's interesting- is that this this isn't these these look like they're.

F

um Like they could have been built a hundred years ago, believe me, when we're done detailing them.

F

You'll know that they weren't but you'll be happy that they're part of that progression of.

F

New buildings that still look like they fit. um That's where we'd like to go.

F

And the fact that the the middle building, I think, is the one that seems to be.

F

Where the most concern is from some, maybe some of those window patterns on the middle.

F

Building the the little triangular building of the condo, those are what we did: a punch window.

F

Version just to see if it would, it would last and and then wrapped it on the end, building.

F

We're trying to make it look like you have a series of pieces that continue to follow.

F

Around um but I I'm sensitive to the concept that it doesn't look like a.

F

Like what it is um that it's a it's a concern that is definitely following us. We tried so far.

F

As you can see, the the concern of having the the two-story base on that whole building was to be.

F

That element that wrapped it and let these other elements be something on top. But you know it's.

F

It's this is our uh our sketches, which we're in the process of trying to make more fundamental.

F

To your town, the glass that you're seeing on the two ends helps create some form of icon.

F

uh To the town, uh it may not be what you guys are hoping to see, um but it could be those two ends.

F

One is they're along the train tracks, they're part of the industrial aspects of this town.

F

You have open cranes with more, you know steel than this glass end, so the intent was. This is more of.

F

A homage to that part of your town, which is a big part of it, and you know, if you you mentioned all.

F

The boat building and all the other ship repairs and all that other stuff that used to be here.

F

Right when you were talking on the other project, there's a lot of industrial elements right along.

F

Market street that we're allowing this building to be part of, or at least respecting with this.

F

This glass building, but it's really going to look more like a metal building on the end.

F

And it will, you know, be quite spectacular having you know rooms there if you could, but.

F

I understand that it might be too much, um but I actually think tucked back behind that park. It.

F

Might be pretty spectacular to come along and see something like that in the distance and.

F

Then keep going into bricktown, um so you know I definitely hear the the need to make sure each.

F

One of these buildings feels like a whole building, but I'm concerned about it feeling.

F

Like too big of a building, so we we have some art crafting to do to to to satisfy you and also you.

F

Know make sure that we're true to your historic history, um we're not there yet obviously yeah.

B

Reagan, do you have something you wanted to add? um Could it yeah? Could I jump in yeah? Please.

E

Yeah, no, I think these are all really great conversations um and I love everybody's comments.

E

And I think that again, I want to just agree with heinz that this whole process has been really.

E

Wonderful, I love that these are sketches and your ideas and we're seeing how it's developing um I.

E

Think that there's a happy medium we can reach with these designs. From all the concerns um I to.

E

Just like martin, I'm very concerned about you know just sort of phony facades going up everywhere, but.

E

If you guys are actually working on slightly changing the program or the layout or something in.

E

Each of these sections that you're showing that to me um really that that works, that at least.

E

Gives some sort of authenticity that there is a difference that you're not just slapping on you.

E

Know the different looking uh skin on and totally you know, um consistent building on the interior.

E

So if you can develop that further, I think that's um an improvement. uh I also.

E

Shared some of dave adams concerns um these are, I think these are great designs for.

E

The scale of the buildings, the the size where we are in new england, however they're they to me, they.

E

Are very boston, um they're, very industrial, and we are sort of on the edge of the industrial sort of.

E

Section so I think that they're not totally out of place having sort of an industrial feel to them.

E

However, you know the image: that's up right now, um nick you might zoom out a little bit just so that.

E

We can see like the rockingham, that's above I just wanted to. You know the right half of this page.

E

Are the actual historic buildings in town and there isn't quite as much glazing as we see.

E

So maybe there's some room to I'm not saying make all of your buildings have tiny windows. I love the.

E

Bay windows, the stacked bay windows- I love it. It kind of looks a little bit like 55 congress street.

E

The building the 80s building that everybody loves to hate um but much better designs, and um so.

E

Maybe there's a happy media. Maybe you can still continue to have some of these beautiful big.

E

Bay windows and big open glazing in certain areas, but then also kind of temper. That, with.

E

uh A little bit more brick that you see sort of in the in the historic buildings that we have in.

E

Town, so that you know that's that's the context, that's uh that's our our more common language.

E

In our downtown, um but otherwise I think we're going in a great direction. I really appreciate.

E

The uh side that faces the um the railroad tracks- I think that's done really well. It is so much less.

E

Of a back of the building, look because there's actual interest in how you've done it, the the.

E

Even though that that area that's sort of raised up is going to be sort of like a raised park that.

E

um Is not above the parking area, I guess um even that I think is done really well, it's detailed.

E

Well, um I just really appreciate that, because we've struggled so much with back of the building.

E

uh Views that are very common, so um so thank you. I again. I think that the the office building.

E

I think that's probably your most successful one, because it um is its own singular building.

E

And it has a contemporary sort of modern flair to it, but it's you know. It's still.

E

The massing and the in the volume of it is still appropriate. So um those are my comments. Thank you.

B

Reagan dan, did you have something? Yes, yes, I I like the way you booked in these two buildings, like.

I

I do like the modern flatbush building and then the industrial office building. um I think.

I

Where I can see the problems is those middle buildings and I think you're heading in the right.

I

Direction, I think that could be because that's the side that probably faces most of the old town.

I

Where the two ends face, the new town that um that could be done up nicely uh to reflect uh our old.

I

History with with your two statements on either end, I like that concept. Thank you. I agree. Nice.

N

I think one of the.

N

Elements that uh make it clear that everything is applied. Roof structure is the corners.

N

Sometimes I wish that the cornice was perhaps more pronounced and detailed.

N

And the other comment I would like to make is.

N

Everything is simply flat and what would happen if, in certain sections, you could actually introduce.

N

An answered roof, for instance, um tried that then it looked like disney world just so you know.

A

Yeah they already peeled that one back, but but I think the issue of the center building is is.

F

Is really it's it's true to our nature. We look at it we've. You know we. We did a first run on this.

F

um It's the one that needs the most work and it's the one that's the most important to craft, but you.

F

Know to your to your point: you are up against a new part of town, which is the north part.

F

And you're, reflecting something that's on the south part, which is your older part of town, so.

F

We're we're trying to be two things to you know the bridge between your two neighborhoods in some.

F

Respects- and you know, if you kind of zoom in on which image is that this is a good image, a 12.

F

um But really kind of, I don't know if you have 12 up, but you know this is this is where you.

F

Know maybe, if you zoom in a little bit, this is where we're trying to go with this one.

F

Is to to yes, I think the building to the right of this may not have the same kind of character.

F

But we were trying to pull different pieces for each element on it, and this is the main.

F

Entrance to that building, um it could be that maybe that that cornice- and this is what we've.

F

Started with is there a way we can do a double height entry feel and make this really feel.

F

Like something that stands out and the other ones kind of fall off to the side of this.

F

And maybe the building to the left was that right or left left. um You know page left with.

F

The punch windows- maybe that needs a a one more in the center- it needs to be bay windows so that.

F

The vocabulary feels the same, and what we're trying to do is just have a kit of parts, because.

F

Believe me, from a developer's perspective, we want to make sure that we have like three.

F

Brick, details and three window details and that's it and we're just going to try and piece.

F

Them together so that they look in my opinion, I think it's important that they look like they're.

F

Could have been built, but maybe not at a different time, but the pieces are going to be kind of we'll.

F

Have different color, brick but it'll be the same detail or we'll have the same window type, but.

F

It'll be in a different place. Maybe we can satisfy the need that that I think you you've addressed.

F

That it doesn't feel cohesive, but but also feel like it's different and it's a it's a real believe.

F

Me it's some of the stuff that we talk about for hours in the office, so we're trying to do it to.

F

Do what we hear you, because the one thing I don't want to do is come back here in two years and see.

F

This thing built and go it's just like next door. That would make me very unhappy, but I I also don't.

F

Want it to feel like it's, the what's the other hotel that does has a big curve on it, that I hate.

A

Sorry it's on the end of hill street or whenever, where you turn it.

F

And that's where I'm trying to stay away from those, I don't mean if you guys own any.

F

We're being recorded, I apologize. I love that building, but with this building it's not the.

F

Right spot for this building here, and it is a real it's a it's, it's something we uh and.

F

When we looked at our our flat elevations, you know we can hide all the detail, because we just.

F

Did them in black and white, and you can't tell whether they're one building or not.

F

But we do need to make them feel like they're part of the same vocabulary and find their way around.

F

But not feel like it's one, big huge mass. I think that's it right. So when we go back to our mass.

F

Drawings, you know on on on page, you know six the real concern here, and this is what we're trying to.

F

Play with is, how do you make it feel like it has all those elements but not be fake, and, and it's.

F

It's a it's going to have a lot to do with how we play with the plan. It's going to have a lot.

F

To do with how we treat the matching elements on the flat iron, which has too much glass for some.

F

That building we're bringing those horizontals back all the way back to the the front side and.

F

That's going to be the piece that ties it maybe there's some other vocabulary that we can do on.

F

That center building to really show that it is one building, but it actually doesn't make you.

F

Feel like it's one building, because there there's this, it could do two things at once. It can look.

F

Like it's all the same building, but also at the same time, not make it feel like it's impressive.

F

Because the town, I don't think it, I don't think this site can afford it with all of your small.

F

You know historical buildings right across the street and then it also needs to be respectful of.

F

Where the rest of the city is going so um we're not there yet damn it. No I'm just kidding. So I'm.

B

Gonna, throw in a few comments of my own and then open it up to the to the public to speak um so.

B

I I hear a lot of what martin is saying and, and I hear what what dave adams is saying, I think for me.

B

The I agree that the center sect of buildings is your biggest challenge.

B

I'm very concerned about the flat top roofs. I think that that well, it.

B

Screams modern and therefore keeps the buildings from being fake, modern. It doesn't fit well with.

B

The historic small buildings across the street to have these these flat behemoths there.

B

I don't know what it looked like when you put mansard roofs on, but I would be interested to.

B

See what might happen if you could play with some of the textures on the roof.

B

You happen to choose the athenian, which has that very interesting.

B

Sort of curved top thing, that's not in any traditional vocabulary of rooftops. I've ever seen.

B

It probably exists somewhere, but it's new to me. I do think that your end buildings are.

B

More successful in terms of being of having their own voice, um I am concerned with the.

B

Amount of glazing on the office building, but I really like what you did with the.

B

I'll call it um with regard to the flatiron state building um a lot of people think about portsmouth.

B

As being a clipper town- and you know- maybe that's a ship or something but to me it read.

B

Locomotive a lot of the 1920s, the uh you know the very stylized going to chicago. Yes, exactly.

B

And you're right next to a you, know, railroad track, and I don't know if you can afford to step back.

B

Those upper floors to give it that streamlined look of the locomotive, I'm just throwing out.

B

But you are right next to a railroad track and you're gonna have trains. You know going past.

B

There um I like, where you're headed with the back side of the building. I appreciate that.

B

You're not making it look completely like the back side of the building. I think a little more.

B

Work there would be would be useful um with regard to the front of the condo building.

B

You know you've got a curve going here um as you're trying to connect those buildings.

B

Without connecting them and yet you're not using a curve shape, and I'm wondering why.

F

It's uh I think you know it goes it it's. It's such a there's, a lot of problems with the scale of that.

F

Curve um from uh you know our perspective it to follow. That curve means that we now.

F

Have a huge building, I guess that's the the real challenge there and you know. Obviously we used.

F

To have the building going the other way, so I was eliminating the curve altogether, which, which was.

F

You know a preference architecturally, because you didn't, I didn't it, wasn't something we.

F

Had to fight against, um I think that it's it's it ends up becoming too much like the.

F

Some of the buildings next door- or you know you end up uh having that that hotel issue you know.

F

Where you can't really get away from it and a curve, it's not a traditional shape. You know for.

F

You have one, though, of course didn't I even I even picked it up when when we did the modeling, um but.

F

You know this is a little curved right. The one on our facade study has a curve on it, but it's.

F

A much sharper curve, this other one is way too it's huge, and so, if you try and do it.

F

Based on the property line, you end up with a I feel and, and I'm happy to you know, hear what.

F

The rest of the crowd here thinks, but I feel it becomes too much of a it. You can't hide it. Okay,.

F

Then um so I I think that the the biggest risk you run right now is, I think, the the risk that.

B

You've identified, which is that it gets viewed as another box made of brick with white trim windows.

B

And I don't think you're going to be satisfied with that. So I encourage you to to keep working.

B

On that center section, I wish I could give you fantastic ideas but you're, the architect yeah. I.

F

Appreciate it we're, you know, we're trying to use this, um the bay window concept and we'll try and.

F

You know bring it into a 20 first century look, but that is a very traditional look of a building of.

F

100 years ago, I think one of you all mentioned it where the bricks, the brick comes down and the.

F

Bays kind of pop through and it actually looks like a lot of glass, but in reality it you can.

F

Have a spanner on it and it and it makes its way into both modern and traditional. Look. It's a real.

F

Art and I can't wait to find someone who knows how to do it well enough and we're trying our best to.

F

Craft one that gets close to being right, um it's the building that I don't think we've spent enough.

F

Time really refining but we're trying to see if we're on the right path. But I think we now know.

F

That we're not yeah. Could I get one more short comment before you go to public yeah um that.

H

The the center building the condo building uh I've already expressed that I, like the bays.

H

I just wanted to bring up. I had a chance to look up what I was talking about and it's.

H

Monadnock building in chicago, but nevertheless um I think that those bays can give you a chance.

H

To maybe change that building in the middle or something um it is a lot, it's got the.

H

Largest presence on the sidewalk, and so I can understand um some opinions that we've had that we.

H

You know, maybe you should cut that up and you know not into a whole bunch of little.

H

Disneyland buildings, but maybe two buildings, you know so it looks like two buildings and that would.

H

Also might help you with the curb, because I understand the curb and I understand, what's.

H

Driving the problems with the curb and the whole thing is the the lay of the land I mean. There's.

H

A huge difference, one end to the other on that property, and um so it's just an idea.

F

You know we all know how challenging the site is. So what we're trying to do is create a base.

F

In it and if the russell street redesign happens- and we end up with that larger plaza- that we're.

F

Shooting for there's a real reason to have the front a front door at that edge of the building.

F

And- and you know from a developer's perspective, we're maximizing the square footage for that. One.

F

Building because there's an economic play that at least has to go into real estate.

F

So we want to do it in a way that doesn't feel like that, but I, I think, there's a really.

F

Asymmetrical opportunity here for us to take another look at how we compose those buildings.

F

So we have our homework cut out for us for next time. We certainly do so. I'm going to open.

B

The floor to the public, if there's anyone from the public that would.

B

Like to speak, anybody online that is waiting, please raise your hand.

B

And we have somebody.

B

Welcome if you'd introduce yourself, please elizabeth browder property owner 159, mcdonough.

O

Street I sent in a letter I'm hoping that the architects get a chance to read my letter.

O

Because I try to make some suggestions, um I'm not too keen on the iron thing. It just seems a little.

O

Overwhelming, on the end, I think that's going to be a very interesting piece of architecture. I agree.

O

With the with the many people on the committee that it's a bit much and I put in some suggestions.

O

In my letters as to how that could be toned down and actually tie it to the railroad tracks, I have.

O

Concerns about the middle in regards to the bay windows. If you look at the old library, restaurant.

O

And it has the two just two of the green ones as opposed to nine of them. I think that if you.

O

Limited those a little bit and you could spread them out on the building more your middle building.

O

That you have that has the um orange and then it has like a speckled background. I live next.

O

To an old shoe factory: well, I did for 35 years and that's a similar thing, except it has bricks.

O

And then it has those windows in it. It does give it some character, but you could tie it in better.

O

um If you did those the in my opinion, if you put the those bays just kind of randomly on.

O

Different areas, and maybe accented it with some white balconies or something to break that up a.

O

Little bit and my suggestion on the end was to put wood type. Looking things between the.

O

um On that iron platter, whatever you guys call that to put some wood between it or.

O

Something or put some of the windows that are similar to a railroad window.

O

Like they had on the old trains, they had a window that was very unique to trains.

O

And I think that it's interesting that a lot of people like the back of the building.

O

um I have concerns about graffiti all over your.

O

Screening so my suggestion would be to make it a half wall and then fill it up with plant planters.

O

If you look at the hanover street garage, it has half walls and then it has screening. But if you.

O

Did half walls and then planters? It would break that up a little. The back of that building is has.

O

No green really and it's not gonna, because you have a 15-foot setback back from the.

O

Railroad and then you have 20 feet of road, that's required by the city for the fire road. So if you.

O

Moved your buildings forward a little and I don't know if you can, you haven't built them.

O

Yet so that you can do whatever you want really, but if you moved your buildings forward, you could.

O

Create a small green space between the 15-foot setback and the 20-foot setback, which would allow.

O

To add a little color to it or you could put a fence there, a decorative fence or something like that.

O

I personally don't like the the gray on the building in the front. I think that building.

O

The office building, I think that building has some great lines. It's a lot of glass. You could.

O

Break that up by putting in sash windows in some places they make big sash windows. I've seen them.

O

In downtown boston, which would kind of break that up a little so.

O

The other thing, too, is, I think, this the walkway, where the pedestrians.

O

Can go needs more green and it it needs less pavement and more green.

O

So that's my two cents you're welcome to read my letter and um in the end, you're.

O

Going to do whatever you want so we'll see what happens. Thank you very much. Thank you. Elizabeth.

B

Your your letter is posted on the website, so they will have access to it. Thank you.

B

All right mayor just making another comment: uh if we go to, I think it's page 15.

N

uh The wrestle street development plan and if I look at those two buildings, I really.

N

Prefer the massing of the middling on the right to the one on the left.

N

Sorry, oh yeah, I'm waiting here. I think if, if uh the building on the left.

N

The four-story uh on top, rather than the three-story and the base it's almost like.

N

You're, cutting that facade in half, but not quite in half, and I think the base.

N

In my opinion becomes too heavy for the top um the building to the right. I find more pleasing.

F

And then- and you know to your point- they they they're. It feels a little squished yeah. I think.

F

The the brick piece seems like it's a little squished. I agree with you and, and hopefully.

F

If we do our job right next time, when we meet we'll, have some real substantive discussions.

F

About facades um that do start to make that that tie, um but we you know, we have to we're.

F

Going to have to hop over the hurdle of making this feel like it's not disney world, and if it.

F

Still feels like that next week or next time we meet them. I think we and we're not doing our jobs.

M

Yeah get it done, we got to put it in by friday. I got five pages of notes here: 36 hours, yeah, yeah,.

J

36 30 35 now um but but but but I I you know, your points are really well taken and I think if.

F

It because again we we believe and- and I know the development team believes this is a very important.

F

Piece for the town and its future, and it can't be a bad backdrop, but it is a backdrop building.

F

Set of buildings, it's not to be to outshine the historical, smaller houses or the old town.

F

It just has to feel like it fits in this town, not necessarily look old or new. It just has.

F

To I believe- and you guys know better than I, but it should feel like it- fits in this town.

F

So that the real the real great quality buildings can shine.

F

Yeah I mean I would prefer you to find an excellent solution to that transformation. Yep.

F

We uh it's our task, no pressure, but you're the third people to try. Okay,.

F

Listen they're trying to charge my favorite number in my love. We don't remember their names.

J

Okay, I don't want to be on that list, so a motion to continue to march.

A

Second, which gives you 500 hours 500.. Thank you team is very excited. I think.

F

They're watching online, so if we can have a roll call vote reagan, hi john.

A

I dan aye karen, yes, dave, aye rich, yes, martin.

A

Yes, chair, boatside, okay, we will see you next time. Thank you very much.

F

Hours, I appreciate your help.

N

Can I take uh take a quick break five minutes: okay, five minutes, five minutes, five minutes.

B

All right welcome back so item. Next we have work session requested by 129 state street llc.

B

Owner for a property located at 129 state street wearing permission is.

B

Requested to allow renovations a new construction to an existing structure.

B

Removal of shutters addition of dormers and roof and siding changes as for plans on file in.

B

The planning department said property is shown on assessor map 107 as lot 47 and lies within.

B

The character district, 4 and historic districts welcome. If you could introduce yourselves, please.

P

Good evening, uh shane forsley with hampshire development corporation to my left, hi bill.

Q

Doyle, I'm the owner of the property and steve wilson, also from hampshire development club.

P

So I'd like to um walk you through uh a few of the existing conditions of the property at 129.

P

State street to start us off, as you may or may not know the property fronts on state street as well.

P

As shafe street in the rear, if you look at sheet a 2.1 from your packet, you will notice. There is a.

P

North and south elevation shown north being on the facade and south being on the state street facade.

P

On the following sheet: a 2.2, that's the west elevation which faces the jsmith park.

P

That's the other existing condition.

P

I'll, let you blow it up a little bit next, so you can see that's here, correct.

C

So the bottom one's proposed, just just so everyone's clear.

P

So, what's proposed is the removal of the non-historic obliques to the windows, the.

P

Shutters and the decorative moldings around the windows.

P

The intent of that is to bring the building back to its original form.

P

Some of the neighboring buildings there's two that about it directly further up state street. They.

P

Were sister buildings at the time we understand and if you look across state street there's.

P

Another very similar building, um where some time ago they had replaced the sills and headers to.

P

The windows uh with stone or granite, which you will see in the proposed elevations as well.

P

We propose new windows, new dormers on both the north and south elevations, which you will see.

P

A shed dormer on the rear facing shafe street and two gable dormers facing state street.

P

Additionally, we propose to replace the existing asphalt shingles with a synthetic slate.

P

Most likely a single collar.

P

There's some reconfiguration on the shafe street facade of the existing garage entry points.

P

And the pedestrian entry points, essentially, they flip-flop from one side of the structure.

P

To the other and you'll notice, there's a two lanterns placed over the proposed garage doors.

P

In the addition, which is the rear building which fronts on shafe street, we propose to.

P

Replace the siding with a collaborator composite side as opposed to the vinyl, that is there now.

P

And there is also lights, which were added above the second story, balcony on that edition.

P

You'll notice on the details, page you'll see some trim, cornice and molding details for the dormers.

P

The fenestrations, as well as some of the panel details that you see in the enclosure.

P

Ultimately, you'll see the the goal, for this is to.

P

Utilize the upper floor space for loft, which will be a work area for bill as well as.

P

Complement the interior floor plan, which you can see existing and proposed within your package.

B

Okay right any questions to start out the the city lists this as built in the 1850s. Are there any.

I

Were able to find pictures before 1998. the old photos are very spotty. What we have found is.

P

Older photos of the neighboring buildings, more so than this building.

P

There's one capture it captures about half the building on state street.

P

Late 1800s early 1900s, but that's really it what we do know about the building was. It was.

P

Originally uh built in or owned by uh ed edmonds robert and he was a merchant and a diplomat.

P

And these photos that you see from the 90s, I think I think it shows.

P

The intent for the facade with the removal of the the pleaks and the additional shutters.

P

Back to a form, as it was back in the day,.

C

That's as late as the 90s, how did that.

C

That car is in the park right. I didn't realize that park was that young.

H

Could I say something about the window heads yes, john. Please.

H

Thank you. um This building was approved for a major rehab ten years ago. I believe.

H

Maybe it was longer um at that time. I was thinking well, this is a federal building.

H

And I wasn't really paying attention to that. The gable end and.

H

But you know I I need some help on this, mr adams, but apparently the building was constructed in.

H

The 40s or 50s and this person was a diplomat, so it's possible that he could have been saying.

H

To himself well, I want to separate my house from all these merchants and all this stuff around here.

H

The window heads somebody came in front of us and I wish I were home now so that I could go.

H

Through all my plastic tubs, because I do have the information on and I'm.

H

I would assume that maybe nick could look it up is that it was pretty much proven to us that these.

H

Were original elements on the building, there was uh evidence of old nail holes above the windows.

H

To hold these things in place, there was um some paint marks on the brick where these.

H

Things were painted, and I was quite surprised, as probably you all are to think- that those things 99.

H

Could be original and if they were and somebody has replicated them, they say that they stay.

H

I'm a little shocked by the overall amount of changes to this building. Also, oh thank you.

B

Thank you, john other thoughts and comments.

Q

I mean I can just mention my understanding was that this.

Q

Building was built as a warehouse, so it was built by this gentleman who was a uh ultimately.

Q

A diplomat but a merchant, um and so it wasn't his residence. It was his warehouse.

J

Can I say that uh it? It strikes me as that's an odd thing to think um in as much as we have.

J

These uh two just two little bands of uh I don't know what honestly caught uh marvel.

J

uh That's been tools laid across as uh floor lines on the second and third floor of the building.

J

That don't exist on the building next to it that it's a bud which suggests that they were obviously.

J

Built by two different people at different times, but but it's a little bit fancy for a warehouse.

J

Building to see these highly decorative bands of stone set across. But what puzzles me along with.

J

Your thought is that uh there aren't, there don't appear to be any stone sills to the windows or.

J

Stone headers to the windows, which is not at all uncommon. I mean it. We have a funny history of.

J

There were buildings that varying periods that had wood, headers and wood sills.

J

And then there were buildings have stone, headers and stone sills uh it it's mixed and I've never.

J

Really found a line on it. uh I, like uh chairman, wyckoff, have a recollection of some some, at least.

J

I, for a long time, thought that they were original elements, but I know that on a couple of buildings.

J

Down there were some that were clearly put on later in the building's life, so I'm I'm wondering.

J

If maybe, both things are not true that there once upon a time, were decorative wood elements.

J

Over these windows- and there was a time before that- then when there were none- I I really don't.

J

Know it would be fascinating to find out, but I I, the ones that are there now are clearly are made.

J

Look like not clearly, but they look very much like they were routed out of a piece of mdf.

J

And painted that's so what we're looking at isn't an artifact to say, but it is a could.

J

Be a placeholder for an artifact. I do not know. Mr chairman is uh very generous thinking that I might.

J

Can I just for a second longer on the floor if you do go ahead with.

J

Putting stone, headers and sills on these windows.

J

Typically, they line up with the coursing of brick.

J

And so to just declare that they're going to the header is going to be eight inch when the.

J

Truth is it'd, probably be seven and a quarter, uh but I think that's something you should probably.

J

Try to tighten up a little bit just so everybody's on the same page, going in.

J

Because all of that has an effect on your ultimate window size anyway, just saying.

B

Other questions, feelings comments.

B

Reagan anything from you.

E

uh Bill- um I don't have much more to say about the historic design of this building. I don't know.

E

And you know in particular I was kind of looking at the door surround. I would love to get again.

E

Take a look at it, get get opinions as to whether or not the.

E

Sort of stripped down proposed doris around would be appropriate. I I'm thinking not.

E

But um but I don't that's just a gut feeling, not necessarily a historic feeling. I would love to.

E

Have the opportunity- or I don't know just how much the um the applicant has spent time at.

E

The athenaeum and really kind of digging up- I mean you, said that you've looked at other.

E

Some photos from surrounding buildings, and sometimes that's all there is.

E

um But I don't know, I'm a historian, so I tend to dig a little bit deeply there. um My I don't.

E

Know I mean my um I'm also concerned about what the major changes that are being done.

E

On the back, um I'm not very clear through this as to what exactly is being added to it.

E

um Because I I don't know, I I don't see drawings and plans showing sort of before and after.

E

Of at least just the outline of the building, um there's just proposed floor plans so.

E

I don't know if the applicant can explain a little bit more clearly as to what is being added.

B

So reagan I had some of the same um problems. The the best way to look at it is that a2.1, which is.

B

Halfway through the packet, the top and the bottom, it's existing and proposed. So, for example, you see.

B

The shed dormer bottom left figure on top of that shows without the dormer and then the.

B

The sheet below that a2.2 again top is existing and the bottom. You see uh the dormer lines at the.

B

Top on top of the the main building does that help yeah it does. You know the the existing.

E

Being so much smaller, it's hard to really get a good scale and understand you know so.

E

Next time, if you could put them at the same scale, that'd probably be more helpful um and not a good.

J

Time yeah I mean particularly this the chief street elevation. um There are a lot of changes.

E

There from what is a very simple elevation to something: that's um got a lot of lot going on.

E

So that's just a few concerns, but I'll. Let other people talk I'm kind of rambling at this point.

E

Thank you um is the obviously the brick part of the building's older is the other.

I

The part was that added street yeah, the audition. Do you have the date on that.

B

As you said, 80s, I think I think I even remember it. You know as a kid seeing a change, um no yeah.

I

But yeah there are a lot of changes to that. um I'm not sure you know on the chief street side.

I

But yeah, let's obviously martin, uh what's the what's the real intention here I mean.

D

There are some major changes to the back wooden structure, part of it.

D

I mean uh you know you your garage doors, your pair of garage doors on the right and then in.

D

The new version they're on the left, so you got some major changes going on and before.

D

You answer that is there any evidence that there were dormers in that brick section that are now.

D

That were there in the framing that you want to produce now. um So let me take your two questions.

Q

uh Separately so, first of all the intent, um this is going to be my family's.

Q

Full-Time residence and so we're trying to build a a house. I have a daughter and a son and a wife and.

Q

We're trying to build a house that we can all uh live it and and turn it into a modern house and.

Q

Again, I don't know the details of the history, but I've been living in it now for a year and a half.

Q

um And it feels like somebody built, you know some bedrooms and a kitchen inside a warehouse, so it.

Q

Might have been somebody's full-time residence on day one, but it feels like you're in three boxes.

Q

uh You know three rectangles. On top of one another, we did commission a a research project.

Q

At the atheneum looking for every photograph and reference we could find you know, unfortunately,.

Q

There aren't great references to the front to the back um that building has changed many times over.

Q

The years it looks like it was an outhouse uh uh originally, um it was clearly not part.

Q

Of the original structure it looked like an outhouse and then it's it became a garage.

Q

Literally, like a tarp paper garage and then it moved, I I understand at one point so the intent.

Q

Here and this the park is adjacent. We saw where the cars were parked in the 90s by the way we've.

Q

Taken over the care of that park, so you know we now have gardeners who maintain that park.

Q

But next to it is a pocket garden um that today uh and there's a you know a very nice uh door.

Q

Leading into the garage, so the cars have a great view of the uh of the garden, so the idea is to put.

Q

The cars in the dark corner and put a kitchen uh overlooking that uh you know little little.

Q

Pocket garden, so that's the reason for the uh the switcheroo um one of our neighbors in the adjacent.

Q

Effect, the condo above the candy store said that once upon a time, that's the way it was. You know.

Q

That that's, you know kind of like a hearsay evidence, but apparently there was a kitchen there.

Q

And somebody moved it the other way around. We want to move it back because it seems to make more.

Q

Sense to have the cars in the dark corner and have the kitchen uh overlooking the back and then, uh as.

Q

As shane mentioned, um there is a fairly large attic um that I'm trying to turn into an office.

Q

So that I can use- and that's I I've been up there, I'm an engineer by training- I haven't seen any.

Q

Evidence of a of dormers, it looks like a very old plank roof. I doubt it's original from the 1850s.

Q

But it's you know it's sort of a a plank and tar paper uh roof. At this point. um I'm just trying to.

Q

Make some space in the back that's consistent with. It may not have been that way, but consistent with.

Q

With other uh buildings in the area to to create an office for myself but you're, but you're also.

D

Looking to strip a lot of these elements off what what's the thinking behind that I mean.

Q

Sure so that you know that doesn't affect the inside space. Obviously I think it looks phony. You.

Q

Know to my eye uh and again, if, if someone actually, uh if we had a picture from you know the 1850s and.

Q

It was really like that it looks to me, like it looks to you that somebody took some really cheap.

Q

Material and you know I'd, say tarted up the building with uh wow educated in england. You know.

J

With some of this, uh you know um back to the roof for a second. Is there any evidence of the oculus.

J

Over the staircase, um it would have been like a boarded off sort of inside of a barrel going up.

J

To a round hole in the roof, I think that staircase is completely. It was added in a modern renovation.

J

Really because I I thought I did the dollar strike for that you may it has a nice battle.

Q

Strat, but it it stops right on the third floor. It does not go all the way. No, no, it only went.

J

To the third floor, and from there up, there was a round window in the ceiling that went to the roof.

J

Under the heading of were there dormers, I, I think that all the light in the third floor came from.

J

An oculus that was once there yeah it's no longer there.

Q

By the way, I'd love an oculus rift. If you're giving me an awkward people to talk to yeah.

D

Do you mean a cupola? No, no, no! No! A a round like a barrel like you, car made a wooden barrel. Okay,.

J

And stuck all uh four inches of it through the roof and put a window on the top a round window.

J

On the top like that or around on the top at the top yeah, so only god could look in.

N

The seagulls yeah on the occasional seat.

J

So, on the back of the building, you're you're expanding the.

J

Garage portion of that wooden addition on the back of the on the machine street side.

J

Of the building uh you're expanding that to house the two garage doors because it was.

J

A smaller of the two pieces of that wooden, I think it's coming out a couple of feet towards.

L

Shafe street, but not a significant amount but you're also making it wider.

B

It appears that it appears that way in the just the way that yeah the building doesn't the width.

Q

Of the building doesn't change scaling, really yeah, but the footprint of the building doesn't change.

L

Yeah and I think in the early days just when you look in the basement.

L

The side that's the garage now was like the summer kitchen outhouse, because you see some.

L

Remnants of that, uh what would be the fireplace in that area so probably was a very seasonal area.

L

And then in the winter they would do that work ins inside the house, but the outhouse was still.

L

Active and then you're a construction of a kind of a hipped roof thing on top of part of the garage.

Q

Yeah we're trying to get a bathroom up there and you don't want to go.

J

Oh, that would go that would take you past the end of the brick building, so it would stick out.

J

And you'd see it from state street if you made it any wider, so we're trying to keep.

Q

The brick building essentially the same but for the dormers and then the change.

Q

And again, the footprint doesn't change, but we're moving the garage doors from the right to the left.

Q

And creating a little entryway into what will be the new kitchen where the current garage is.

L

And you know what's super interesting, I just say this about what john said uh is. I look at those.

L

Pediments on those windows and I'm just thinking 1952 somebody cut those out of a.

L

Piece of you know something or whatever and stuck them on there. I never even.

L

Considered that they could be original to the building and two things we see these dormers.

L

Especially the two gable dormers facing state street on other buildings, going down the line.

L

And they, I don't think they were ever on this particular building, but also.

L

Two about a half a block down on the opposite side of the street, so you see almost an identical.

L

Side to a building there, that looks a lot like this: the new rendering and nothing like the it.

L

Has no fanciness to it, so I just say that out loud. So the cue I think, for this really can't come from.

L

What doesn't come from historic photos like bill said if they would have found him over there if.

L

They had him. That being said, I'm not sure somebody doesn't have them in their attic someplace, but.

L

The other thing is that you do see these elements in the in the building and really the only other.

L

Changes right now, you have on the side of the building facing the garden and state street.

L

You have an over a balcony, that's void underneath, and so the balcony above stays.

L

Informed the way it is but they're just pushing those windows out underneath and it's not a very.

L

Attractive, look right now as it is, and I don't believe that that portion of the building really.

L

The brick rectangle as bill said is really the integrity to this to this building. The.

L

Back, I think, has may have changed. You know five times since 1850. I really do think that if you go.

L

Inside you can see all kinds of different things going on in the underpinnings, stairs stairs, etc. So.

L

And just to be clear, I think the building is 18.. Can I just about 18.? This is a federal building, so.

C

It's 200 years old. Well I mean I defer to you here. We are here, you all know more about this than I do.

L

So reagan can I jump in real fast because because I'm I have the magic of screens at my fingertips.

E

um I was just looking back and maybe you've said this and I just didn't get it, but that.

E

Back portion that sticks out perpendicular because I'm looking at the top left, so the.

E

Portion that you're saying that has balcony and all that stuff that was all built ten years ago.

A

Yes, okay! Yes, so I just said it doesn't look authentic to me so good eye.

E

I'm just looking at old, um google street view images and there's a great view from sheaf street.

E

Into 2011, showing what the rear l looks like at that time, which did not, which was in line with the.

E

Facade it did not come out so that all is new and in my opinion, if it's all new construction and for.

E

Me personally, you've got a lot more leverage to fix or change or do whatever. As long as um it's.

E

You know still appropriate on the outside, but you're not you're, not messing with any historic.

E

uh Fabric yeah, that was my understanding. I didn't pinpoint the date that that went up.

Q

But we did see so many different iterations of that back l, uh that it was clear that it was.

Q

You know I I maybe the best guess is that it was this outdoor kitchen. You know once upon a.

Q

Time but it's uh it's been iterated many many times since I remember when there were three.

J

Old cadillacs lined up behind the back of this building, a 1937 lasalle and everybody in town.

J

Banged on the poor man store every single week asking if he was ready yet to sell it.

A

Okay, so it was a used car lot. Well, it was to him yeah all right um anybody else or I'm going.

B

To make a few comments? Okay, so um I can support pretty much everything that you're doing to the.

B

More modern back section um I can even get around the shed dormer on the brick building, but the two.

B

Dormers on the front, I I can't get behind that there there's one example that I noticed in that.

B

Block of uh dormers on that front, but pretty much in that area and across the street. Those roofs are.

B

Still intact and- and I would like to see that so I understand what you're trying to do- I'm hoping.

B

That between the shed dormer on the back and some of the small windows in the peak, um and maybe some.

B

Other funky innocuous things you can accomplish in that neighborhood yeah.

B

So you can still, you know, maybe accomplish what you're looking for um with regard to the windows.

B

The fancy trim and all of that um it would be it would be helpful to have some more.

B

Historic information: if it's not there, it's not there and I could see removing these things.

B

I'm not sure about the addition of the granite because, as david adams pointed out,.

B

There's no guideline that says before this time it was all window frame, it was wood, framing and.

B

After this time it was it was granite. So you can't really hang your hat on that it doesn't.

B

Appear to me, I don't see any evident evidence that granite had been taken out at some point.

B

So that tells me that it probably wasn't there, unless you can find something that says otherwise.

B

So I'm I'm wondering a little bit about that decision to to introduce an element that wasn't.

B

There before um so, those are those are my general thoughts and I didn't hear anybody.

B

Expressing strong opinions one way or the other, it's mostly been discussion, as opposed.

L

To a work session, I'll ask some questions before we get off the subject, but I think.

L

It's most likely that that was that was just brick around those windows and I'm gonna ask.

L

Bill at the table, because it's kind of a date you know there's no sense in is that is that.

L

Granted an essential component to the to the facade for you or would, or I mean not essential.

L

Like you don't want to live in the house, if you don't have it, but it's time to move to nashville.

L

First of all, we could we could. uh We can do more home, try to get some try.

L

To find another source of information, as far as what it did, look like in the day.

L

You know well, I think, that's great input. Let me you know, let's in the spirit of a.

Q

Work session discussion, you know I I need to go back and actually go outside and.

J

There are a bunch of examples, some in good condition, some otherwise that that just don't make.

J

Too much of a mistake card looking for something that you are interested in finding, even though and.

J

Having to ignore the fact that it was changed at some point, but there are a couple of old buildings.

J

Around it, that of the time when this was built, it had very simple, clean front facades that that may.

J

Have something that you're looking for it's funny the building, just on the other side of your garden.

J

Has brown stone, sills they've been painted white, probably for a long time, but they're tooled brown.

J

Stone tools very much like the those ledgers on the front of your building, which I'm pretty sure.

J

Are marble? It's it's a it's a kind of a unique building in that it has a whole residential.

J

Side and side yard, which you've been lucky enough to inherit right over time, uh but for a narrow.

J

Little building a little that has no doorway, no sign of any doorway ever having been cut in.

J

On the front of it, it's always had this dedicated side panel. So while it's not in quotes a unique.

J

Form of a building right here in our town- this is a kind of unique circumstance to have this happen.

J

We have been looking at these fancy pediments for some time, so some of that's going to be hard to.

J

Understand can I make a suggestion that uh before our next work session we have a sidewalk and and.

J

In preparation of that site walk, maybe if there's some exploratory work that you can peel back a.

J

Couple of spots so that we can see something it'd be a lot simpler to have some of this conversation.

J

Particularly about the care and feeding of the old brick building, I think everyone's pretty much.

J

On board with, as long as it's not disturbing, the the thing on chief street is up for grabs.

Q

And again, I'm sorry, I I would say, take take one off. um It's a repair, so you you.

H

You can take one off without uh getting our approval um and you're thinking. Well, you know.

H

I'm gonna put it back on whatever, but take one of those things off and uh then that that'll tell.

L

A good idea um so anyway, thanks everyone for coming together and giving us your suggestions.

Q

We feel quite lucky to have this building. You know we had to go out of our way to get it.

Q

And you know we looked all over town, we wanted to live in in town and.

Q

So we're not trying to uh disrupt the the fabric. You know we're here because of the fabric.

Q

um And uh you know our my interpretation was that, as I said before, maybe not maybe a little.

Q

Too, colorfully that this was you know an add-on uh from you know some point along the history. If that.

Q

Turns out not to be correct, we'll probably want to upgrade the look, so it doesn't look like it was.

Q

You know machined at a vinyl and glued onto the uh onto the brick and with.

Q

Respect to the you know the surrounds um again: I'm not trying to create a.

Q

You know I listened to some of your earlier meetings. I'm not trying to create a disneyland or.

Q

A faux facade or anything like that, but you know all things being equal rather be clean uh and.

Q

And well-made you know so it looks like it's well made like it's. You know like it's uh substantial.

Q

With one question for me with respect to the roof, if, if these dormers don't survive on the.

Q

On the front, is it possible to put glass on the roof? Is that how does that.

Q

You know so I can get light into that uh that corner if it's in the same, you know.

Q

We're talking about slate because clearly it wasn't tar paper. You know in 1815.

Q

um So, are you talking, uh you want skylights, or are you talking uh tunnel like like tunnels.

B

That are more on the on the plane, as opposed to a skylight that opens, and it tends to be.

B

I I don't know what I'm I'm asking the question. You know what what you know is.

Q

Sounds like oculus! Well, I'm I've already got an oculus there's an oculus coming.

Q

It almost makes sense when you start saying it, but oh yeah, there's going to be an oculus is that is.

L

That protrude, like the like on the the warship, the monitor okay, so it has a bit of a sidewall to it.

L

Did it have has glazing on the top and did they ever like put banded windows? I never saw that.

J

Fancy thing: no, they were just stave built wooden structures. Typically whitewashed on the inside.

J

Typically whitewashed, many times we see very we've, I've only seen a couple of them.

J

That were in any kind of condition uh most of them deteriorated. This is we're done.

L

You know in the rest of that yeah, no butyl rubber cockings. You know, I think, there's one in 129 days.

C

I love you. There is yeah yeah, I'm just going to say that on 129, which you should know very well.

A

Yeah that that is stave built, like you said, and it's beautiful, there's one on the back of market.

H

Street somewhere around the gas light uh on the back of one of those buildings, but it's an octagon.

H

Sticking up from I mean I love octagon, that's a great thing to work on an effort to.

B

Have we have we, given you enough guidance at this point, you want to come back in a month.

C

Yes, a month or two sure.

A

All right, um so is there anybody from the public who wishes to speak.

B

Are one person in the public anybody online? No okay, uh then I'll post, the public.

B

Portion of this discussion and entertain a motion.

J

I'd like to move that we continue this to the next month. Thank you. Dave.

B

Second, second, thank you and a roll call vote. John, yes reagan. Yes, martin yeah, rich, yes, jay hi, karen.

B

Okay, thank you very much, we'll see you in a moment. Thank you, and I really do appreciate your time.

Q

If you are interested in um having us come over and take a look yeah, that's often very a good.

B

Way of getting people to understand, we'll see what we find dismantled and then and there's.

B

Still plenty of things to look at all kinds of questions that get resolved right there on second.

L

Talk and we'll get as many of you out there as we can okay um before before we move on margot could.

H

I ask nick one question, please sure. Yes, I I would like nick or isaac to look back in the records.

H

For this particular property and find out when we gave that approval, in other words, what month.

H

And year was that last approval for that building, because that has all the information about those.

H

Window heads in it and um if he could just find that and and then give it to me, that would be good.

H

John I'll do that, for you. Thank you. Thank you. You're, a guy she's, the spirit.

A

B

We're going to give nick a minute to get back and find someone.

B

Come sit down but make yourselves comfortable.

B

B

Thank you for arranging the additional walk through for those of us who no no.

A

Didn't have a chance to see it the first time no problem.

B

Okay, nick will be back in a moment, but I think we can start so. This is sorry. I have to read my thing.

B

Here no absolutely work session requested by mill pond view llc owner for property located at 179.

B

Pleasant street, wherein permission is requested to allow changes to a previously approved design.

B

Changes to the sun room and roof design, as for plans on file in the planning department, said.

B

Property is shown on assessor map 108 as lot 15 and lies within the mixed research office.

B

And historic districts um carla before I have you introduce yourselves.

B

I wanted to get some guidance from you on how you wanted to parse out this discussion and.

B

Approval because you have things happening on the mansion and then there's the whole question of.

B

What's happening with the edition, so exactly if you introduce yourselves and then please let us.

K

Know: quick expansion on my agenda letter? How about that? Okay, very good! Thank you all right, uh carla.

K

Goodnight and jake weiner from cj architects and david calkins here uh the contractor for the job.

K

So I think the best thing to do is uh just to I'm sure, you've reviewed the package and read.

K

The findings and the reports and so forth, but what I will do is just run through some highlights from.

K

Engineering quickly and runs through some um of the historian's opinions and then I'll turn.

K

It over to dave and he's going to walk you through his narrative about how he captured.

K

The work that he intends to do to the mansion um and then I'll jump into our presentation.

K

And sort of walk you through the pages in here that you know depict some of the work and then.

K

He'll jump back in and talk about the annex and then you know that'll pretty much wrap it up. um I.

K

Think you know what we're primarily looking for is uh you know the we'd like to just get.

K

A uh I guess, consensus on where we are with the uh the plan for the mansion.

K

The plan for the annex uh and the plan for the basically the new construction of the.

K

The round room that we've all the porch enclosure that we've all seen as being a non-specific.

A

Contributing structure, um so those are really our three. You know items that we're trying to.

K

Present in in detail so that we can, uh you know, be having a clear path. Is that helpful? Yes, all right.

K

All right uh so I'd like to begin with uh uh marty gorham from gorham structural engineering has been.

K

Spending quite a bit of time out there um and he has written this uh opinion of some of the things.

K

That have happened, or things he's uncovered. um One of them is that he basically says the.

K

On page three, the brick and stone foundation is in poor condition with eroded mortar joints.

K

And some wall areas visibly leaning out of plum. His opinion is that the crawl space foundations.

K

Will require significant repair, then he goes on to the first floor, framing where he says.

K

The annex first floor framing is a combination of heavy timber, wood, framing and direct contact with.

K

Soil and timber joists over crawl space. uh He has outlined that area in his s in his sketch.

K

His opinion is that the first floor framing over the crawl space areas is in poor condition and may.

K

Need to be removed to provide access to the crawl space, so the foundation can be repaired.

K

Proper vapor barrier installed and make way for mechanical systems.

K

First floor, exterior wall framing appears to have been modified numerous times over the life.

K

Of the building, some areas which look original are framed with three by three studs spaced. At thirty.

K

On center, with two by two infill studs and sloped furring in other areas, it appears that new windows.

K

Were installed and significant, but structurally dubious framing modifications have been made.

K

Second, floor framing is three inch by five and a half joist joists at 24 on center joists are.

K

Supported by two two by tens and both beams are significantly over stressed, a number of joints.

K

Have been notched, drilled or otherwise damaged to an extent that they have no tangible structural.

K

Value it was observed that one ply beam is fractured. The allowable total load for this.

K

Floor system is less than five psf third floor. He has a similar description and he steams at 10 psf.

K

Neither of which is even close to working roof attic system would be approximately 20 psf.

K

So the roof will require significant, reinforcing or replacement to increase load capacity.

K

Which, of course, would also involve removal of all the slate so that that could be achieved.

K

Inclusion, in my opinion, the end in his opinion, the annex framing is.

K

Far too, undersized damaged and compromised to be considered, acceptable and safe.

K

For any current occupancy or use, the annex will require significant commitment.

K

From the owner to provide the structural improvements needed to ensure the building.

K

Is safe and can remain in service for the future? If you look at the diagram on.

K

There you are nick. If you look at the diagram sk1, you can see in the back. He notes masonry wall.

K

Leaning outward and in the front foreground towards the bottom of the page, he notes.

K

Foundation, wall, cracked and bowing inward. So that is a quick overview of this multi-page document.

K

The architectural conservator that had been asked to come out and have let us know his thoughts, has.

K

Said uh as as described in greater detail below, it is clear that the annex was added to the building.

K

In the mid 19th century, as part of a greater greco-italianate style, sorry renovation to.

K

The 1780s historic mansion it was placed over in a regular foundation and exhibits result in settling.

K

The framing of the annex is representative of a major shift in american wood frame buildings in.

K

Traditions away from timber and toward balloon the biggest design concern.

K

Either approach is how to tie in the original compound georgian cornice of the main house.

K

With the greek revival cornice of the annex, these can essentially die into one another with creative.

K

Clean woodworking joints, the most important aspect of this issue will be obtaining an even valley and.

K

Drip edge at this intersection and we've created a detailed model detail on 4.0 that achieves this.

K

This goal, but we'll get to that, and um I think what I'd like to do is just turn it.

K

Over to dave to run through his narrative um and what we've tried to do is we've talked a.

K

Little bit on site, we talked a little bit at our first work session about.

K

The intentions for how to go about moving this, the mansion into a stable condition. So what I.

K

We we've done is memorialized the construction plan so that, when you're approving it you're.

K

Improving like the whole concept, so he's going to just run through some of the highlights.

R

Yeah I'll I'll be brief, and then, if there's something anyone wants to sort of go into.

R

In more depth, we can do that as we go through and then just keep in mind I'll go through the mansion.

R

First and then we'll address the annex sort of in stride with the rest of the presentation. So.

R

The intent on the exterior of the mansion is to uh strip the paint off of the chimneys, restore those.

R

Back to natural brick, repoint um and replace uh mortar in kind, we'll do an analysis and everything.

R

The widow walk to take off, ideally as one unit lift it off of the roof and have it.

R

Repaired on the ground painted, and then we would put that back as well. I just want.

R

To go into the siding because a part of the chimney and the siding, which is worth noting.

R

Is we are talking with a company called sponge jet, which is a basically a um form of sandblasting for.

R

Lack of a technical term, but they use foam as the media and they're able to actually.

R

Sandblast very delicate surfaces which would allow us to get the paint off of the chimney.

R

And perhaps all the siding and the trim as well on the main house and the other fascinating piece.

R

About it, is it's like closed cell foam so when it hits the surface it expands and encapsulates.

R

The media or the substrate that you're trying to get off so we are looking at.

R

Methods of that to certainly deal with the chimney, but even the siding and trim as well.

R

The roof, as carla mentioned, we have numerous leaks and deficiencies there, so we're looking to take all of the slate off of the roof.

R

At that point, we'd like to uh sheath the roof and put one inch poly iso over the roof to help.

R

With an insulating challenge that we're going to have that detail will be further discussed.

R

The gutters need to be removed off of the house. Copper, put back on we're proposing half round.

R

Copper gutters with three inch smooth downspouts. Currently it is white aluminum.

R

Shutters we've had discussion about this, but the owners would like the shutters.

R

To maintain on the house, they are on basically the.

R

Elevation sides here.

K

Right and left side, yeah, right and left side of the property to.

R

Speed things along, but most of them all of them will have to come off, uh be stripped repaired and.

R

If they need to be reproduced, it'll be done out of in-kind material or spanish. Cedar is what we've.

R

Sort of specked out through beech river mill works. Who has the ability to replicate.

R

Windows and storms, so all of the original windows will may be restored completely. They'll come.

R

Out sashes will be uh stripped all of the muttons. Any of that are are that are damaged, will be.

R

Repaired and the original uh windows will go back into the house with some improvements.

R

Truthfully we're looking at a wooden exterior storm, uh we're still narrowing down the exact.

R

Product on that, but it will be an exterior storm, we're gravitating towards wood, but.

R

Because it's eastern trim- and we don't have that extra blind, stop it's just making sure.

R

We don't have a clunky wooden uh exterior storm, but our intent is wooden. Storms on the outside.

R

Siding and trim, as I discussed, we're, really positive that the sponge jetting technique.

R

Will work on the wood so that we can strip our intent is to strip all paint off of all siding.

R

And exterior trim on the mansion, get it down to original wood sand and then from there we're.

R

Able to uh prime and paint appropriately, there are numerous areas that need repair. Obviously,.

R

We would repair in kind. The uh sort of the meat of this section is. I would very much like to.

R

Remove the bottom 18 inches of siding around the mansion so that we could access the sill beam.

R

We have access on the inside, but really there's signs of rot and degradation. I'd.

R

Like to be able to see that from the outside and then appropriately flash.

R

And in doing so, if I could remove the bottom 18 inches of siding and sheathing.

R

We could do that so that we never have an issue again and put it back again in kind.

R

The bay window has some issues: it's a cmu foundation and we've now been able to get.

R

Underneath there- and it is not a proper foundation, so we're looking to remove that.

R

Cmu foundation put something in there, that's more stable and then we could.

R

Veneer that to look like the stone rubble foundation, that's currently on the mansion.

R

As of right now, it is just a concrete block foundation that you can see.

R

Utility building penetrations- we don't have to- I won't get into that too much, but we'd like to.

R

Clean those up there's some pictures that they've been done somewhat haphazardly or without thought.

R

On how they look on the front of the building basement windows, there's four in total that are.

R

Wood that are not only non-operational, two of them are about ready to fall in.

R

So I'd like to replace those with wooden windows same light cut before light.

R

Creating landscaping, we don't have to discuss right now. The annex, as I stated, will revisit.

R

In this presentation, so then we go to the front of the house or the west elevation.

R

Those three dormers will remain I'd like to do the same with siding and trim strip it down.

R

Replace in kind only what needs to be and repaint since this we've submitted this, the owners.

R

After we've consulted with the window woman on uh replacing or sorry restoring the windows in.

R

The mansion she has the ability to replicate those windows, in her words, exactly so we'd like.

R

To have her replicate the windows that are in the mansion and put those in the three front. Dormers.

R

So those will be they're not original now, but we would have uh or replicate the uh the original.

R

Windows window casings, um sorry window, head casings on the front elevation, there's four.

R

Of them- and I don't know if the flashing is lead or some type of it doesn't look like copper or tin.

R

But it is cracked it's showing signs of where water is able to get in. I'd like to be able to cut.

R

The siding above that one or two courses at most and properly flash that head unit restore the trim.

R

The main portico same thing with siding, trim strip it down repaint it does need it has a flat seamed.

R

Copper roof it's hard to set to say what what the state of that roof is. We can see it, but.

R

It looks like it's lifted in some areas, so as of right now, I'd like to replace that with a.

R

New flat, seam copper roof the back pitching into the uh not on the portico. Sorry, the bay window.

R

It pitches back to the building, so I'd like to replace that that also has a flat seam, copper, roof.

R

We'd like to just put a basically a positive pitch away from the building minimal and put.

R

A flat, seam, copper roof back on it. The column bases you'll, see a picture further in the report.

R

So there are two pilasters that flank the door and then there are two columns.

R

The pilasters have, and they they both have ionic capitals or what I would consider ionic capitals.

R

The pilasters have what look like an ionic base, but the uh columns just have a square.

R

Base that someone has put on there I'd like to take those off and then have an ionic base made.

R

Ideally, if acceptable to the board I'd like that to be synthetic because that's in.

R

Constant contact with the granite steps, but we can discuss that.

R

The north elevation or the left side of the building facing langdon.

R

This side of the house has some challenges. We have active leaks not only inside the building, but through the cornice and down the wall.

R

This side, I would very much like to remove all of the siding. um A lot of it has uh some rock and.

R

Extensive repair on this side, but the the biggest concern is the chimney mass is blowing the wall.

R

So in between the two windows- and I wasn't able to really capture it effectively with a picture.

R

The wall is bowing out where we have some some potential issues, so I would like to be.

R

Able to expose that side to framing and then obviously replace in kind.

R

Head casing: same treatment, re-flash those but the siding's gone. That's a non-issue.

R

And then on the east elevation again we'll get into the annex and how that.

R

Impacts the dormer up on the roof and as well as the sun room and the stair window,.

R

So I think that really is a quick summary of what the exterior work is to.

R

Include and then we'll go into the rest as carla proceeds here. Okay, um just stop there.

B

For a second and I'll just ask for you the board, if option what what we've heard, if anybody has any.

B

Strong feelings, objections, concerns or questions about any of the work on the mansion, thus far.

A

I just have one question about the roof: um the slight reusing, the slate, not a possibility.

R

uh Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. We've I've contacted a few companies to.

R

Have that uh assessed better, it has to come off, so we can address some structural among other issues.

R

I might be, I hesitate to say this, but my experience from what I know with slate.

R

Is it it's going to boil down to how thick the slate, how much wear layer is left on that slate.

R

And so we're trying to seek out the right people to do that.

R

We've also looked at some synthetic products, synthetic slate that we were hoping to potentially.

R

Put up there but quite frankly, some of the samples we've got have been less than pleasing. So I don't.

R

Have an answer as to what that will look like just yet you're being so particular on on all of.

A

This, it just seems like if you could just stick with the the real mccoy it would be. Nice yeah.

B

Yes, martin um also with the roof you're probably going to find the slates are not salvageable. They.

D

Just get brittle and they're hard to handle at that point anyway, um you're going to put an inch.

D

Of insulation, that's not going to really give you too much. Only seven six and a half correct value.

D

Yeah 6.9, um I think it achieves two things. One is. It gives us that vapor barrier first, because the.

R

Roof is framed with sizable timbers, most of which have been compromised, but neither here nor there.

R

It gives us a continuous vapor barrier, it does give us 6.9 of effective or performance value.

R

And then inside, I guess I'd love to do more, but I think we start to run the risk of having a weird.

R

Detail there that's what I was gonna ask next you're gonna also put like a five ply or four ply.

D

On top of that, so you're gonna have to end up with a at the at the uh eve. You're gonna get a little.

D

Wider and I'm seeing I'm seeing uh just aluminum gutters are you gonna, do uh different gunner type.

R

Yes, copper, copper shows up in the specs, okay, so copper half rounds and all that.

A

Yeah, okay that'll go a long way toward disguising that uh gainer at the edge yeah.

K

We'll mitigate that with extension and raise so you're, not just taking it all up and rise.

K

Because you're hitting it at an angle, so it's coming down like that at an inch. But then you're.

K

When you hit it at an angle, it's you know: it's even thicker, so if you can bring it out a little.

K

And you can almost come down to where you were by just a little build out which will be supporting.

K

The gutter anyway so but I'll have that all detailed and just one last thing: the the sponge.

D

I've seen where that's been used and it it's sort of it tears up the wood. I mean.

D

It's supposed to be gentle and it really. The effect is that you, you end up with a.

D

Some of the softer woods being torn out, but so I just want to caution caution. You.

D

On that yeah and the uh the gentleman I spoke with was very clear about that.

R

So, depending on what uh the board sees fit, if the north side is able to be stripped.

R

Because of the state that it's in it's in a punky state, that's the prime place to do a sample. Let's.

R

See it on there and if it does rip apart the wood, then it's a you know it's a hard stop.

R

The unfortunate piece is the next step is: is peel away or actually heating up the paint and scraping.

R

The end result is, it has to be brought back down to.

R

Bare wood: there are numerous layers of paint there. Any comments with regard.

B

To the request about the pvc um column base and anyone want to comment at this.

D

J

The ones that were there are gone, they're gone for a reason.

J

It's in, in some respects an unnatural condition, because these people had enough money.

J

To have an enormous slab of stone set there as their front entry plate.

J

And, and so is constantly splash and water contact, uh it certainly is uh going to last longer than.

J

The previous material it can be handled, I'm sure that they, I I'm going to bet on them, being able.

J

To pull that off so that, with a coat a couple of coats of paint, you won't be able to tell.

J

I it is the place for it. I personally would support it, particularly because it's so far back.

B

From the house and from the road you know, people are gonna have to work really hard to see um that.

B

That's different um any comments, john or reagan, or shall we move on to the discussion of the nx.

E

And move on as far as I'm concerned, yeah me too, please, okay, thank you. Okay,.

K

All right, um so moving on to the actual um presentation we have our location map.

K

We've expanded our timeline to include the uh people that have been sort of walking.

K

Through and giving us their opinions of which we are basing these decisions on which they're.

K

Looking at the 2.0 again is just recapturing the existing conditions for a reference.

K

uh Looking at 3.0, uh our intention is to follow the recommendations of both. You know.

K

The engineer and the historian and the people that have have been.

K

On the property walking through and giving us their opinion and.

K

Take these historically significant details and preserve them, and what you will see is the trim.

K

To be removed, restored and reinstalled would be all of the pink areas for trim.

K

The windows and doors to be removed, restored and reinstalled, basically.

K

The original windows and doors, our original window and door would be treated with the same.

K

Process that dave described for the dormer windows are not original.

K

And everything to the left of that red arrow would not be part of this description.

K

So the removal of the all of the framing, which would need to be shimmed and padded out and.

K

Otherwise modified the bulkhead would be removed, um the chimney would be demolished and then.

K

Basically, the new frame would receive the historic trim, windows, shutters window casing and all of.

K

These details, um as well as the dentals and the um siding anything in green, would be replaced in kind.

K

In just the blue areas of the roofing, the chimney and the um bulkhead would be.

K

um Just demolished and replaced with the roofing would be is proposed at this time to be.

K

Something different, so that's the the basic kind of key plan, because just to make it very clear.

K

What is happening to each element on the exterior skin of the of the framing.

K

uh Once the framing beneath it is removed, uh 3.1 follows that same.

K

uh The same thought process with the the restore and reinstall versus replacing kind versus not.

K

Not salvageable the bay window on the back, I think from our visit. Everyone agrees is.

K

Nothing we want to be saving nothing contributing, so the same effect here remove restore.

K

The two dormers that you can see on the mansion have been broken out as also being.

K

Replaced in kind on that rear elevation, one of them, I think, is vinyl at this time.

K

3.2 covers the third elevation, uh the north elevation of the existing annex.

K

Same treatment, the window on the first floor is not original or.

K

Worth set worth, saving um and the rest of the area is will be preserved.

K

Moving and then the three dormers in the front have were going to be replacing chine.

K

But then um the owner uh decided, as dave mentioned, that they would rather have them.

K

Actually replicated so because they're on the front building, so those are not.

K

Going to be replaced in kind, we'll be correcting that uh so moving on to 4.0.

K

uh The new volume, the new proportion of the house would be to align the eaves and.

K

Bring these two profiles together seamlessly wrap the gutter around we've modeled. This connection.

K

On 4.0, the intention is to align the where the roofs meet, align the dentals and align the.

K

You know the the bottom piece of wood trim that is sort of begins the whole assembly. uh The pattern.

K

Of the windows has not really been altered other than in height uh again that porch. That's there.

K

Originally will stay with the mansion and the door and trim and casing and all will be relocated.

K

Exactly below where it was before, uh I believe what it's a 30 inch.

K

It's actually it's 31 and a half 31 and 31.5 inch transition overall for the structure.

K

And moving on to 4.0.

K

You can see that the uh there's a new.

K

Seven and a half foot by ten and a half foot single story addition being proposed in place of.

K

Where the angled bay had been previously located on the east elevation.

K

You can see all of the trim, windows, siding or trim windows trip and dentals reinstalled.

K

On the gable end, as seen in the photo of the east elevation and then also to the far right corner.

K

You see the existing dormer moved over uh three feet to the proposed.

K

Dormer location, so that's our our movement, laterally laterally across that side.

K

um The shadow is the section of the uh of the eave coming in uh moving on to 4.2.

K

Most of the siding on this elevation actually is new uh on on both really actually the.

K

4.2 and 4.1 a lot of that siding on the original building is new, uh just because of all the.

K

Replacement windows and things work that has gone on there, especially on the curved portion.

K

We are proposing to put a window in where that door used to walk out onto the we're.

K

Going to restore a window in that location on the north elevation above the little uh mansard roof.

K

Which would also be copper, so we would do a copper mansard. There.

K

In keeping with the copper, that's going uh on elsewhere in the uh in the construction.

K

And 5.0 shows a more expanded view of that area.

K

A little bit more in keeping with the roof details uh on the lower level and sort of matching up.

K

With that, and and really leaving the cornice line to be the the feature event, in that view,.

K

And then 5.1 just shows you another view of how that that configuration will be.

K

Will be seen from from the southwest from actually from pleasant street.

K

And moving on to materials, as dave mentioned, where we did get a sample of the.

K

Slate faux slate roofing that we can discuss or talk about that as a potential.

K

For a lighter weight material as well as you know, long-term durability, then we're looking.

K

At a half round, copper gutter with three inch smooth, proper downspout that would be installed.

K

Instead of what's on there now and then all other window locations where we don't have.

K

It a window and of course we would, we would have. You know, go note window by window where these are.

K

We would use the uh the marvin ultimate wood with a half screen.

K

uh In in the locations where you know, there's no window to restore.

K

So and then uh 7.0 just goes on to sort of if we want to discuss some of these.

K

Areas we just have this for um just for reference, some of the photos that we had.

K

Had seen both in person and uh and also in you know, well, I don't have been discussing through.

K

Throughout our our work sessions, so I just have them there in case. We want to refer to.

K

Anything so I'm just going to have dave, do his uh last piece of the what he wants to what he's.

K

Proposing for the annex from a constructability standpoint, and then we can talk about the annex.

K

Because it's kind of the other half of what I just I'm doing the. Where he's doing the what.

R

So after a lot of sort of fact-finding and research and looking at the annex from a.

R

Couple different angles: we've settled on the fact that we would like to take that back. Annex down.

R

As carla has discussed, we would very surgically remove certain aspects that we've identified as.

R

Historically, significant and set those aside to be.

R

Re-Incorporated in the new annex, which, just to be extremely clear, would be the exact same footprint.

R

As the original annex we're not looking for an expansion in anywhere, with the exception of my.

K

Box bay replacement, yeah, yes, with the exception of the uh one story edition replacing the bay.

R

Window out back so in doing that, we would take the building down as a note shown on sk1.

R

In gorham structural report, we would keep the rear l foundation, which is original to the building.

R

The crawl space, the first section that's inaccessible other than from above from there.

R

Back would be removed. uh There are kind of three sections if you're looking at his drawing there is.

R

uh Kind of a note that says uh mansion foundation and then there's a section that is 14.6 feet.

R

That is the kitchen l, which now has been incorporated into with a bulkhead that wall.

R

Would stay but then going beyond that the next 10 foot eight is a section that's inaccessible. It is.

R

There is a rubble wall there, how far down it goes, we don't know, but that is basically.

R

Infilled with dirt, then the final 11 foot 9, is a combination of a brick wall over a rubble wall.

R

That has been noted. There are areas that it's failed, so we'd be looking to basically take down.

R

The ten foot- eight section 11 foot nine section and replace that with a uh a new foundation.

R

Wall proper foundation wall, which we would then veneer on the outside, to look like the rubble wall.

R

um We would cut the portico free, which is, uh let me just grab the it's illustrated on carla's.

R

Drawing which is 3.0 so there is a challenge here, but um not one. That's insurmountable! That portico.

R

Really isn't on a foundation it's depicted again in marty's sketch on sk1 the original foundation.

R

Jogs in and then we have the portico outside of that, because it sits on some granite slabs. We.

R

Don't know: what's underneath we are seeing some sort of stressing conditions on the section of.

R

The foundation wall inside of that, but we believe that's mostly because the bulkhead was cut through.

R

So now we have a disjointed wall here to accommodate a bulkhead that we don't want.

R

On the front of the house- and we have the portico pushing in so our intent is when.

R

We relieve the annex from that portico then we'd have the ability to hopefully address.

R

Underneath the portico, but the intent is to leave the portico there. While we do our construction.

R

We could then address the one section of foundation original foundation wall that is, is.

R

Compromised from there again, we would build uh in the same footprint reincorporating the six windows.

R

The shutters the door pediment, the transom, the door, the cornice molding and the entry portico.

R

The height as carla mentioned, would only differ. The footprint would be the same. The difference.

R

Would be in the elevation of 31.5 inches or I've rounded up at 32 inches so that the soffits align.

R

You see the connection detail on the soffits.

R

And uh there are a few areas: the dormers are the only areas that would get the marvin I'm sorry. I.

R

Misspoke, the dormers would get the marvin ultimate wood, sash windows and then we'd have some on the.

R

3.2 on the north elevation as well, that would all be clearly identified.

R

So if discussion uh requires, we can discuss how we've gotten to this point, but.

R

We've arrived at really the most uh reasonable uh outcome for this building is to.

R

Salvage, what has been identified as historically significant and then remove the rest.

R

So that's our intent! Okay! Well, thank you for all of that. um If I could.

B

Guide the conversation a little bit and maybe just ask the big question of the commission, which is.

B

Does anybody feel that taking down this annex structure is destroying a contributing.

B

Historic structure and that it is not the direction that the commission would support.

B

John, did I hear you sigh yeah, yeah I'll address that um you know I.

H

Went in it twice uh so I said that and looking at trying to rebuild it.

H

Very very difficult, um it could be done in my opinion. um I said that from the very start, this.

H

Could be repaired? um You know new studs could be brought in sistered in um leveled out the.

H

Floor joists could be replaced up on the second floor, but um so it all boils down to.

H

Whether or not they have a level floor that continues on into the mansion, I think that's.

H

A lot of it, and also on the other side of this annex, the.

H

Roof interferes with a relatively important window at the top of the stairs.

H

Is that reason enough to tear it down.

H

I don't know I I will say that looking at the southwest elevations- and you know I just want.

H

To say, I understand all of the rationalization all of the explanations I've had in talking with.

H

The contractor, but when I look at the southwest elevation, all of a sudden aligning the soffits.

H

Is awkward, I I don't know what's the matter and it might be the possibility of the elevation.

H

Of the way it's drawn or depicted it's it's, it looks flatter.

H

And obviously it isn't flat because you are following the original foundation.

H

It just I just I have trouble at with the southwest elevation. That's me. Thank you.

H

Oh one more thing before I lose the floor, there's no chimney. The chimney is gone completely.

H

And I think the chimney should be put back. I would almost, if you're going to go to all that trouble.

H

With the portico I'd almost like to see somebody say well, we could save the chimney too, because.

H

It is uh an original chimney and there is a cook oven and everything attached to it down downstairs.

H

So uh maybe the fact of not having a chimney on that thing. What makes that is the annex look so.

H

Plain. Thank you. Thank you, john other comments about to tear down or key.

D

I can support what you're doing. Is this a public hearing or still a work session yeah? I I can see.

D

With the effort that you're making on the main house, I can see that that buys you some.

D

Consideration for what you need to do to the annex.

D

To the to the back of the house, and so I I fully support it.

B

Anybody else I I understand completely, and I I'm certainly a believer in that that it's tearing.

J

It down and rebuilding it makes more sense than trying to deal with the issues that are there.

J

To get what they want um and and I'm sort of on board with with all of the pieces and parts.

J

And the efforts that they put into this until we get to the thing that I wished would never.

J

Happen, which was the eaves lines of the dependency lining up with the eve line of the mansion house,.

J

And then, in the midst of all of that, we also lose the chimney and- and I I don't know- I don't.

J

Know what anybody expects from me other than I I'm gonna have a hard, I'm not gonna, be able to.

J

Support this, it's not a hard time. I I don't see how I can support this, so uh it sounds unless.

B

I don't wanna jump in front of anybody who hasn't had a chance to speak, but I'm not hearing anybody.

B

Say that they feel that the 18 1815 structure, as it exists today, has to be saved raised up because.

B

It's worth a bazillion dollars of historic value. Okay, great, um oh, can I can I jump in yes, please. I.

E

I do think it's a value, but it's.

E

At anytime we have a demolition, we have to weigh it against, what's being put in its place and.

E

um Yeah we've been there, I was there, it's you're, it's it's still in.

E

It's going to look new, it's it's a new construction edition, um you're going to.

E

Lose that even if you're stripping all the paint you're going to lose the patina of.

E

Age, that's in there, however, I'm incredibly impressed with the effort and the detail.

E

You know for for a reconstruction of something like this, for something that has to be.

E

Torn down in reconstruction, you, you guys, have hit all of the benchmarks of what you need to do to do.

E

It right, and so um what I'm seeing here I am it's. uh I totally see what john and dave are concerned.

E

About with losing the what's now, the misalignment of the the eaves and everything because.

E

It uh it looks like a dependency now and when you bring it all up to level it's, it's.

E

It it makes it less um subservient to the original house, but I'm not sure how.

E

It's hard to know without seeing it, and even with these sort of drawings and renderings.

E

I I don't know how noticeable that is really going to be and how important that's really going to be.

E

um And so you know I'm again, I I think I can support this um just because you guys are going.

E

To all the effort of of saving and reusing all the important pieces and building it exactly.

E

The way it is now just raising it up a little bit. I am concerned about the chimney um as well.

E

Because that's something that was pointed out in the um in stephen mallory's report, who I know him.

E

And he's he's very knowledgeable and so for him to point out the fact that there is this very.

E

Special cook stove there um in its position uh we, I know we don't have purview on the interior, but.

E

That is a concern and to have the chimney totally taken away. It makes me concerned about what's.

E

Going to happen with that that cook stove and the language of what was going on in this l um so.

E

Thank you, I don't know what else to say.

K

So I just wanted to sort of follow up on a couple of things that I've heard.

K

um And that, I think, are interesting.

K

As far as what would need to be done to stabilize the building the structural engineer,.

K

Has I mean the first floor is built on the dirt, so that will all have to come out and.

K

Nothing will be saved because it's sitting on the actual dirt right now for most of it.

K

So that will need to be reframe, you know dug out and foundation will need to be re-stabilized.

K

Somehow we'll have to get under there stabilize all of that and install some new foundation.

K

uh Which would be veneered with the with this appropriate stone and then reframe that floor.

K

And then the same would need to be done to the second floor, because he's also said that that.

K

Does not have the load carrying capacity, so that would need to be replaced with something that.

K

Was code compliant and would have followed the appropriate load bearing capacity so.

K

Same goes for the upper, so by then, what we have left is walls and in the roof structure.

K

We have the walls and we have the roof, and so and those are also not compliant and would need to be.

K

Padded out and the roof would need to be also, you know, needs to be basically reframed from.

K

The inside, as well because of the the you know how psf is you know in the single digits, and you know.

K

Very very low, um and the other piece is that you know we took. We did some soul searching on the.

K

Kind of the fabric of you know the architecture and the history, the the line of of thinking over.

K

The history of the building- and you know the the mansion- is clearly a gem. It was constructed with.

K

Care, it was constructed, well, designed and, and the details were were done well, and it was really.

K

You know a proud piece of architecture, and um you know that the you know, as comp compare comparably.

K

Somewhat with the langdon house and when the langdon house elected to put an addition on.

K

They hired a famous uh architectural design company to come in and and build this gorgeous.

K

Complimentary edition, which um you know just really.

K

I think is, is the right thing to do for a building like that, and I think what that most.

K

Of the people that have walked through in this list on page one have all somewhat agreed that.

K

People who put up the annex and you know kind of slam the roof line to the top sash of the window.

K

And built it on the dirt and all of that uh just really weren't the best craftsman of the time you.

K

Know much like the people who then came in in the 70s butchered the attic and left us with. You know.

K

That that issues and everything that we're facing up there. So what kind of because I've.

K

Struggled back and forth too, and what kind of threw me over was it? Should we preserve this poor.

K

Poorly constructed, you know, design, that's it's that has assaulted the the the mansion should.

K

We preserve it just because it was badly done a long time ago, instead of badly done recently.

K

So I think that's kind of my you know that it's that that's kind of where I said, okay,.

K

Let's preserve what is valuable um and you know, do the correction, so the window can be.

K

Free as it was in the 1800s, and you know, I think I'm hearing that that's what the board.

B

Supports that I'm not I'm not hearing anybody saying that this needs to be reconstructed and.

B

Saved what I am hearing is that there are some concerns about what you're proposing to rebuild.

B

Specifically the loss of a chimney which I've echoed that concern the.

B

The lining up of the cornice well, an important objective of yours, has and and how the roof line.

B

The ridge lines up to me is creating a building that is no longer an annex and no.

B

Longer an addition and no longer something that was subservient to the main mansion.

B

To me, this now reads like something just as big just as heavy just as important as.

B

The mansion, when our guidelines say that that really shouldn't that shouldn't be.

B

What you have when you have an addition, and it certainly wasn't what they put on in the 1800s, so.

B

And the the other thing I think that makes this um new annex look um on the same level.

B

As the mansion is the size of your dormers, because if you look unless it's an optical.

B

Illusion but when you look at the photos of the dormers in the back they're petite, they're slim.

B

And these are our modern, big ones, and so, when you look at those two, these would be the same. Dormers.

K

That are on there now that are previously yeah, and I understand that. But what's what you have.

B

There right now is a house, that's lower with a bigger dormer and when you bring the ridge line.

B

Up and now the two buildings appear to be the same size. You now have dormers that are much bigger.

B

Than the dormers that are sitting on the mansion- and I think it creates an illusion of the annex.

B

Now being much much bigger and I think that's that that's what's bothering me and if you want to.

B

Align the cornice my question to you would be: is there another way to make this annex continue.

B

To look like an annex by bringing the ridge down well the ridges yeah, then let's go to the ridges.

B

Yeah, it depends a little bit on the angle that you're looking at and maybe what we need is.

B

Some more development of different angles, different ways of looking.

B

At this different drawings that would help us, but I heard dave say this: I heard karen say it.

B

I felt it I don't know about martin, no, um so there's at least some concern.

B

About the relationship between the mansion and an annex, that's now becoming.

B

So I I'll help you a little bit with that, um the annex, the one of the things we were careful to.

K

Do was keep the the more diminutive window sizes which are smaller than the mansion. The original.

K

Annex windows are significantly smaller, so we're retaining that of the the molding.

K

The dental molding is completely different and subservient to the main house, so the windows are.

K

More, you know are less predominant. The k trim is less predominant, uh the ridge is lower.

K

Which are all things that we you know are always look for in a in a secondary structure.

K

It's also setbacks. You know on on the sides coming in, so it's it's not flush with either it's.

K

Not the same width, it's significantly set back on one side and slightly set back on the other.

K

Again, in keeping with the original footprint, so really the only change is the 30 inch rise.

K

Everything else remains the subservient size, windows, subservient, trims, observing everything is.

K

That lesser annex identity, um but you know and and the dormers are just what was on there so.

K

You know that is the the dormers that were built when the annex.

K

We're trying to thread the needle between preserving it, but.

K

Also opening up um you know, it's really just unacceptable to have that cornice line just.

K

That you know just ramming into that window sash! It's just.

B

Car look tonight. Yes, john! Yes, uh thank you margot. um How much of a lift do you need.

H

To clear that window and have you thought about a larger or excuse me? That's not the right word.

H

Have you thought about extending the eaves of the annex a little bit further than they are.

H

Now so by extending them, it drops the soffit and the facial board down. If you know what I'm saying.

H

Yeah um is there any way that you could split? The difference is what I'm asking.

H

Somehow or another, if you made the building narrower, it would drop the eve's edge.

J

No, no, if you look at 3.2, you have to extend that break of the roof plan. Yes, yes, so we.

J

Don't do it if you allow yourself to break free of the socket. If you look at 3.2, you.

K

Can see how high up the windows on that side on the north elevation are in relation they're.

K

Right up almost right up to the roof, that's trim aren't they that photo yeah. If you look at the.

K

Photo in the upper right corner, you can really see how high that is so you're never going to.

J

Raise the soffit of your new or your annex roof you're, never going to raise the soffit of that.

J

Why can't you lower the windows, get above that on the mansion? No, no! On the.

D

What makes it subservient well, is you got smaller windows, you have a less formal quality.

D

The main building is symmetrical, it's it's grand it's. It's got uh major features.

D

Bionx has smaller windows, it's random, it doesn't have the same formality.

D

So the fact that that the eaves lineup doesn't tell me that it's on equal par.

D

With this very stately front, part of the of the complex, so the ridges don't match up.

D

If you look past the widow's walk, you have a higher ridge so to me, they're struggling with this.

D

They're struggling to fix it they're struggling to take out the.

D

Errors that were built into it, let's help them out. That's that's the way I see and.

D

There's and there's other voices here on the board I haven't heard from yet so.

B

Anybody else um I definitely see how it changes when you match the cornices. It changes that line.

I

On that side, and just as looking at it as a flat picture, it makes it look very. Even if you do look.

I

At the east elevation, you can see how you know. I mean it is it's all hidden behind the main mansion.

I

I don't know, but I I don't like that the chimney is gone. That is, you know.

I

I consider that historic. um The fact that I had like a use and everything.

I

But I can see where, if you walk by, I mean my friend christian used to live here.

I

If you walk by in front, then you wouldn't see the annex. You know if you're at the front door, but I.

I

Can see what you're saying as well demarco how it makes it look like there's one continuous building.

I

On that side, yeah- and it might look more like that- because it is a flat picture, but I'm not sure give.

B

Us give us some different angles: yeah. Well, the the one that john's referring to is actually you.

K

Know more, it's not really a pedestrian level view. It's a little really kind of raised up.

K

Which does give you a more straight on view so you're not really perceiving the setback as much.

K

But we could actually look at that from a you know, more of a pedestrian vantage point and then.

K

You know you would really see that, um but yes, part of our consideration when we you know were.

K

Exploring you know the chimney piece was you know where? Where which, where.

K

Is it visible from publicly, I guess was our thought on that where, where exactly.

K

Can we see that from but that that was you know.

J

On an upside, I, I think the treatment of the uh round sunroom on the back, the roof.

J

The edge of that and the roof of that is, uh you know right out of the park. Oh good.

J

Excuse me, I'm just trying to be positive here, I'd like to make one statement as well to address a.

R

Concern that I think reagan had and I actually shared the concern.

R

When we looked at the annex in comparison to the mansion and how best to handle it,.

R

If you look at my report on page 10, there's just a picture of a window header there.

R

And our intent the detail that we will go through the mansion on the outside.

R

Is going to be so painful that that little piece of trim you see there is not going to receive.

R

Caulking and then three coats of paint that piece of trim will either have to be restored or a.

R

Section of it taken off and be replicated so once we go through the mansion and I'm learning more.

R

About the preservation efforts through speaking to the company, that's going to handle the windows.

R

It's it's going to be historic because we're dealing with old material- that's been there for.

R

200 years, but it's going to look crisp and clean because we've taken the care and the attention.

R

To detail to restore that- and I think that's where my mind had to shift- is that preservation.

R

I always looked at it as well. You don't touch that you just keep putting paint.

R

On it to make sure it stays there, that's not the effort that the house will receive it's.

R

It's going to have to be stripped back down to its very uh original installation state.

R

And get the treatment that it got back then, but also sort of with some of the modern uh material.

R

You know paint, etc that we do now to make sure it lasts another 200 years.

R

And one other thing not that I don't want to waste your time. But speaking to what carla said about.

R

The historic fabric- I read this great opinion piece about historic fabric is, is created not only.

R

In the the historic buildings that were built 200 years ago, but we should be with the mindset that.

R

The work that we do today is done in a manner that it will be historic fabric in another 200 years.

R

And sort of discerning where that level is and and having that in the work that we do.

R

So I just want to make sure it's clear with the annex. It was always a real struggle with.

R

If we take this down, I don't want to have a an older looking building with a new annex.

R

But the truth of the matter is, is that the mansion isn't going to look old. It's going to look.

R

Completely preserved and restored next to a building that will fit to it. So that's the mindset.

B

All right, um so there is anybody in the public on zoom, just because I have to ask.

A

It doesn't look like it. Okay, so.

N

Okay, so wrapping up, I think that I just did anyone else. Have any other comments about.

K

The round room or the the portrait yeah everything's, all but okay, sorry so.

B

It sounds like you have full support for the direction you're headed with regard to the mansion.

A

um Full support for the idea of re having to rebuild a new annex, but keeping the historic.

B

Details that you've suggested you can keep the one big concern. I'm hearing is the chimney.

B

And I think in large part, as reagan said, because of the value of the historic value of what is.

B

Underneath the chimney that we all you know know about in addition to how it fits into the.

B

History of the annex itself, whether it can be seen from the street or not, it is a big part of the nx.

B

But otherwise I think you're you're right on track. I'm not hearing any great concerns about.

B

The direction you're going, I think the devil is in the details at this point. um So would you like to.

B

Come back next month, or would you like some more time? uh No, I think we can pull it together.

K

So I think we're just gonna we'll come back for a public hearing straight to public hearing great.

K

To public hearing I think it's you know we, I don't know, we have a few details to work out.

K

But not much on it's your call, I think so. Okay, so we need a motion to close the short session.

B

Thank you and a roll call vote. John.

H

Yes, reagan, hi.

B

Are there any further? Business may have to have a motion to adjourn.

B

Second, everybody in favor all right. Thank you.