City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 1 Feb 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 2.1.2023 Historic District Commission

Description

2.1.2023 Historic District Commission

A

A

Good evening, everybody welcome to the february's first meeting of the historic district commission.

A

Before we get into the formal things, I'm going to do a few introductions which are going to.

A

Be a little difficult because we have people in different places, um but to my right, johanna, landis,.

A

Dan brown good evening reagan rudick good evening to my left, isaac goodloe from the.

A

Planning department and dave adams sitting good evening, karen buford will be with us shortly.

A

And online we have rich blaylock who's, our city councilor good evening, ah good hi, and we think.

A

John wyckoff is going to join us remotely as well. If he does, we will be sure to introduce him.

A

Go touring I'm sitting in as chairman tonight, while john is on vacation.

A

All right, the board's action in these matters has been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature.

A

Any person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest. That issue should be raised.

A

At this point or will be deemed waived, anybody wishing to raise any issues no and karen welcome.

A

All right uh next on the agenda is approval of minutes from january 4th and january 11th. Madam.

B

Chairman, yes, um I'd like to make a correction um on the january 11th uh minutes uh on pages.

B

Five and six application number three: I think mr o'shea would like his name spelled a-u-g-e-r. It.

B

Should be corrected for the record? Okay, any other corrections or comments on the minutes.

A

Is anybody need to recuse themselves from the minutes.

A

All right take a motion. um I move that the minutes be accepted with the name, spelling correction.

C

A second all in favor, I'm sorry we have to do roll call because rich is uh online. So.

A

um And because we have some people missing johanna, I'm gonna have you.

A

Vote as a full member versus alternate member tonight, okay, so johanna aye van hi reagan, aye.

A

Dave hi, I wasn't there rich all right and to share both eyes so that passes.

A

um Isaac is going to run us through the administrative approvals we have one.

A

Request to postpone, which is 11 chief street, and we have two that need to be pulled for.

A

um Conflicts that would be number 5, 85 daniel street and number seven 114 maplewood avenue so.

A

um Isaac we'll start with number one and we'll go through the remaining ones: okay,.

D

So uh the first administrative approval we have this evening is for 40 court street.

D

um They are proposing to install hvac equipment, a condenser with screening at the property and.

D

Do we have the applicant or anyone who could speak more to that application in the audience.

D

This is sort of what they've proposed as far as having conduit lines running on the.

D

Property, this is the proposed area for the condenser itself,.

D

That and then additional conduit lines running up this wall as well. Do we have.

D

Any questions from the commission members, no other than just the note that, on the plan we.

E

It says condenser can be hidden with lattice if needed, and I think it is needed in this location.

E

Absolutely um I know that we have a few different examples of the coverings, and so I guess I think.

E

Does nick have some that are just like any of these? Are fine yeah exactly a few that he can.

D

Sort of give to the applicant, and they can make a decision on which they would like. Okay, okay, great.

D

So sorry go ahead, everybody else have any questions or issues okay. Well then, I will.

A

Raise one um I'm not clear how this conduit is going to be snaked around the eve of the bump out.

A

um It's very awkward and it's a rather deep eve. So I don't know if anybody else had any concern.

A

About that, this is running up the side of the building. It is visible from the street granted.

A

um Most people go rather quickly down that street, but it is visible and it.

A

Will have to snake around that that eve, if any, anybody have any issues with that.

B

I have to say in a jaded sense that to me it is the description of back of the house and- and I I.

B

Didn't see any, I didn't take any umbrage to it. I mean I think, we've I've seen enough of these to.

E

Know how it's gonna look all right: okay to number three, all right! So number three is 55 gate street.

D

um I would just like to make one um note: um they uh have kind of condensed the scope of work here.

D

um So they're just asking for hvac equipment a condenser unit.

D

With screening and the additional siding is going to be removed from this application.

D

um And I see you out there in the audience. Would you like to speak to this application at all, or just say a few quick words for us.

F

Yeah the client has decided to just repair and patch in new siding in this location. We've had.

F

To do a lot of interior structural work and at this point we're not wanting to put that in the.

F

Budget and it's not a huge area, we're just relocating couple windows and it is easily.

F

Patched and not have to get into taking the side, the sheathing off and then glassing, and so that's.

F

What our proposal is thank you and does anybody have any questions or comments for this? One.

C

You can't do it be painted to match the siding, sure.

D

Okay, moving along to 82 congress street number, four.

D

um So this um administrative approval application is for exterior ductwork and for louver changes on.

D

The building and is there anybody in the audience who can speak to this application? Yes, come on up.

G

Good evening, I'm martini from mchenry architecture um we have previously been here and approved for.

G

Improvements to the space for the storefront that used to be bull moose, which is now going.

G

To be summer sessions in doing the fit out for the space, we were also upgrading, hvac um and part of.

G

That was providing exhaust and fresh air louvers and ductwork for the new mechanical equipment.

G

It was originally proposed to have both duck both ducks out in the back alley here um and.

G

Two things that occurred during construction were because of the adjacencies of the parking.

G

Garage that exist there under the building, as well as some of the ducks or the exhaust for.

G

The kitchen on the adjacent building we had to move this intake up or this exhaust up. I'm.

G

um And we had to have it 25 feet from the garage and 10 feet from other adjacents, so.

G

We've always planned to have the ductwork here. It just became taller and it has that.

G

Gooseneck there we also removed some of the other ground mounted condensers as part of.

G

The project to clean up some of the equipment in that area, the second piece on the next page.

G

Is a another duct that we were trying to basically get both on the same side of the property back in.

G

That back alley, but during construction there was just not enough room to get two ducks and also.

G

Got the separation we needed there, so they ended up, bringing that that particular duct and louver.

G

Out the other side and chose an existing infill panel, that was there that has um other mechanical.

G

Vents and horn, straps and stuff to basically poke out and provide that louver. That louver is wasn't.

G

Painted currently in the photo but is going to be painted so that matches the existing finishes.

D

Thank you any questions yeah, so I was just going to say so that infill panel.

E

Has always just been an infill panel with yep events and stuff, okay, correct.

D

Are there questions? Okay, thank you all right, so we will be skipping 85, daniel.

D

Street as that one's being pulled out, so our next administrative approval will be for 150.

D

Daniel street and this application is to just change an existing casement window.

D

um And change it to a double hung that will match the rest of the existing.

D

Windows that have already been approved on the property, so you can see here it's going.

D

To be this window up on the second story, on the rear of the rear of the building.

D

And do we have questions on that? One.

H

Nope nope, okay, ford, great um all right so uh again, skipping number, seven we'll move on to.

D

Number eight, which is 33 bow street. The request is to replace existing wood decking with a trex.

D

Material and I will get down to images so um just the deck boarding right here um is there.

D

Anyone in the audience who might want to maybe speak a little bit more to that application, sir.

I

Good evening, jeff cloutier with bonnet page and stone we're the general contractor for.

I

The building owner, it is simply just to replace worn deck boards on two floors.

I

Replacing the wood with trex composite decking.

I

Answer any questions.

B

What, in particular, do these things look like from the underside, because that's really how the most of the public's view is going to be of them.

I

How does it look? It looks the same as it does from above both sides of the board. I.

B

Ask because some synthetic planking materials have uh scores and locking devices and whatnot.

B

On the undersides, these do not these do not we'll be catching them from the sides.

D

Any other questions good all right. Thank you.

D

Thank you all right, so our next administrative approval is 440 pleasant street, and this.

D

Application is for some final approvals for exterior lighting and windows on the property.

D

And looks like we've got somebody who will speak to that application. Thank you, foreign.

J

Eyer with winterhoban um and yeah, ideally I think this is a. I don't know. Fourth time, we've.

J

Arrived here- um and this is hopefully going to address the lingering detail items uh in.

J

Regards to both the windows and the lighting um suppose, with the lighting initially we've taken.

J

Off the upper lighting fixtures we've just done the row down at the bottom, pointing up.

J

um And then I believe the question beyond that was just sort of the uh wiring.

J

For it, um so I actually, if we could skip to the final page, there.

J

It kind of gives us an idea so that yeah there's the updated rendering, which is the up lighting.

J

And a very um intense moon, but then we should have uh like seven 7.3 further down.

J

There we go so again: that's the fixture on the water table there um and then the plan which is.

J

A little difficult, probably to read from here is just showing that these fixtures are designed to.

J

Basically be daisy chained from a power source, so the power source would be located inside the.

J

Structure, we would do essentially two penetration points through the stone we're calling out for.

J

Ideally, at an actual masonry joint, so we don't actually go through the stone direct on those.

J

Areas and then, essentially, you know we're going to feed half the fixtures with one power source and.

J

So two power sources: each feeding, ten fixtures going through the stone to get to there and.

J

Then we're daisy chaining in between uh where we would look to surface run. These connector cables.

J

Up against the where the water table meets the stone there. um I brought just an idea: props of.

J

The cable in case you care to see just how thick it is or not and again it'll be up.

J

Tight in that area, it's basically little cleats that we've been told from the lighting.

J

Manufacturer that we can get like a exterior grade, double-sided tape that will hold those.

J

Cleats and should hold all of that into place, so that'll um eliminate any sort of stone.

J

Penetration at that point so outside of drilling through the wall, to get the cable out there and.

J

Then the mounting of the light fixtures themselves. That would be the extent of the stone damage.

J

Or you know holes that we're going to put in the stone. That's been a concern.

J

um I don't know if we want to address questions on lighting first, we want to jump right. The windows.

A

The lighting good nope, all right so the sheets up before that one seven, two.

J

So this is um the windows that have been approved or the.

J

Pillow series we've been working with pella and the installation contractor.

J

On just how we want to do this, what the detailing wants to be, and everything along those lines.

J

um I don't know if you guys have a print out of this, but we have basically seven.

J

Seven reasons and concerns from both uh pella and the contractors installing.

J

um Basically, expressing a concern about trying to reuse the existing metal.

J

uh Three-Quarter round trim we've been able to get pella to actually um do a custom order, trim that.

J

Will match the profile of that existing but will also be able to fit into their window frame unit.

J

What that allows us for us to get the jams and everything tighter to that stone, which is.

J

What we're trying for so we have more visible light as opposed to more frame, um so it just.

J

If I go through the list here, the part of the concern is that we have different installation.

J

Details we have, we keep this existing trim. We don't have this trim that you're going to get.

J

An inconsistent installation um because some of these don't have trim, as we've discussed before.

J

Some of these have wood, brick mold trims that we would replace and put something that's more.

J

Historically accurate, so just there was a concern about yeah this one. That's going to be installed.

J

Nicely this window beside it is a new window. It's not going to be installed as nicely because now.

J

We're dealing with just more unknowns um and keeping in mind with the unknowns, um because.

J

The trim is a special order. You kind of want to just order it once and get a run that we need.

J

So if you don't know if the trim's gonna last the existing trim until you take it off.

J

It's just it's, you know again, more of an unknown. Do you just order for everything.

J

And then end up having six windows worth of trim that you just paid extra for or.

J

Do you not have enough and then have to wait and get that to come back in which kind of.

J

Leads to installation time, ideally, we want to scaffold all the way around. This get the.

J

Windows out put them in get out of the way in order to minimize just the inconvenience and.

J

Everything having the knowns, this is the coming out. We've got the trim and everything just it's.

J

Going to make it quicker, as opposed to we'll run into this, we're a little worried about it. Let's.

J

Talk about it all the while the scaffolding sitting up in everybody's way. um Those are.

J

The main things I mean it was just there's a installer's concerned about justifiably hey.

J

You know this trim, we don't know about it, we take it out, we put it back in, it falls for some reason.

J

Fails within six months, who's that on is that on him is that on so anyhow, we left it at we needed.

J

To come back and kind of discuss the details once we got more into it, and that is that is.

J

What I've been hearing from again the people that are dealing with this way more direct than myself.

A

J

I guess I should add that the two original windows have a full uh trim on both of them, so we'll paint.

J

Those we'll keep those so you'll still have two openings that are the original quarter inch.

J

Divided light with the metal trim, that'll all be, you know, painted and made to look pretty so.

K

The aesthetics and the compatibility, because I don't feel qualified to address it. I I really.

B

Wish I could fill in something I'm familiar with the metal. I was intrigued. I probably as most.

B

People with the metal trim, that's on the windows. um Every period of building in our town seems to.

B

Have a different era of that closure: material staff, bead they're called brick mold they're.

B

Sometimes called there are a bunch of different closures between the wood frame and the stone.

B

Or brick, and and they seem to date, buildings and one of the things that you see mostly from when.

B

Work that was done in the 30s 40s, 50s and 60s is that was completely obliterated. It was all driven.

B

You know just torn off and gotten rid of this applicant, I think, is making the most consistent.

B

And and pointed effort to maintain unique to the town trim, I wonder if I have a wonder it's.

B

How long these windows will last these things? Don't have great life expectancy, the replacement.

B

Windows, but we're hoping that this does it's. The heartening part of this is that we have someone.

B

That's a making an attempt uh to follow through on a commitment that he made to us and that they.

B

Are saving a couple of windows that at this moment, don't seem to be questionable so that we will at.

B

Least, for the course of our generation anyway know what it's supposed to look like, but this.

B

Building is unique: we worry about holes in it. It's disappointing to see what our forebearers have.

B

Allowed to have happen to some of the stonework on this building yeah I mean there are definitely.

J

Areas that are rough and and pardon you know, the commission is a little bit jealous of of what.

B

Happens to the building because it's an iconic and you know seemingly solidly built building.

B

Well, yeah this one I mean, I don't know if you've seen any of the actual details of the original, but.

J

It's all you know, non-combustible construction, which, for that time was pretty impressive with.

J

Steel- and you know it looks like brick vaults, going on in there to support the floor and even.

J

The roof is non-combustible yeah I mean it's, it's a it's a fortress, it's not going anywhere.

E

I I did have a question. Tell me again what these new three-quarter round molds are made of.

J

They would be made of the aluminum, basically the same same material as.

J

The uh the cladding okay on the exterior frame fun. We know what we know. What.

J

Oh pella's gonna come and take pictures of this they're going to want to make it look pretty yeah.

A

All right any further questions for robert.

A

All right, thank you very much.

A

Okay, so we've gone through all the items and need to pull aside um at this point, we would.

A

I would entertain a motion to approve those, but if anybody would like to pull one because they're.

A

Intending to vote negatively now would be the time to speak up, okay motion. uh Then it would.

A

Be welcome. Do we have um particular stipulations for any of them, so it looks like on 55 gate street.

D

There was a stipulation to have the conduit match the existing sighting of the house.

D

um And 40 court street um we had a stipulation that they would need to screen the condenser.

D

And that nick and myself can reach out to the applicant with a potential screening options for.

D

That and number two is: is it still being postponed? uh Yes, yes, okay, so this is for one to forty.

C

I mean when they're nine and did anyone else have any other stipulations that you might.

D

Want to include on any of those other admin approvals that have anything else written down.

E

Okay, no so yeah so review we're it's one, three, four, five! So sorry, six, okay, six, not five.

E

Eight and nine oh correct, okay, so I move that we accept all the administrative approvals for.

E

Those with the stipulations second and we'll do a roll call vote rich. I'm gonna start with you.

A

I johanna, I am sorry reagan, hi dave, hi and karen I'm gonna call on you because it seems john has.

A

Not joined us, yes, okay, very good um and the turbo tie. Okay, um we have two other admin approvals.

D

That were pulled out, um so let's go with the number five um first, that's 85 daniel street.

D

um Essentially, the application is for several um changes to a previously.

D

Approved design on that building, um and I think we have someone in the audience who.

D

Might be able to speak to those changes a little bit better if you want to come on up.

L

Hello, richard dejarin from mchenry architecture representing the applicant for 85 daniel street.

L

If you go to page two, these are the previously approved elevations and a perspective of the.

L

Areas that we are now altering, essentially, what we are doing is changing the entrance.

L

Point through a man door instead of going directly into the garage we're going into.

L

The second or the first floor. So if you go to the next sheet, you'll see what we're proposing.

L

Here, since the first floor is roughly two feet plus or minus above grade, we had to provide.

L

A set of stairs in the landing to get access into this door and, along with that, we enlarged.

L

The overhangs to get you into the building the deck and the railing are going to be made of the.

L

Same materials that were previously approved at the public hearing on may 17th and of last year.

L

Also, we had a stipulation from that same meeting that we needed to verify that the.

L

Overhead doors were a smooth texture, we did go back to the product data, the overhead door.

L

That we specified is a smooth texture and we're going with a white finish. Are there any questions.

A

Okay, thank you.

A

um Since karen is the one recused for also for number seven, why don't we do number seven right.

A

Now as well, okay, perfect all right and so number seven, the last administrative.

D

Approval tonight is 114 maplewood avenue, and this is again for hvac equipment.

D

um So it's the installation of a condenser unit and fencing at the rear of the building.

D

um Is there anyone that might want to just quickly kind of discuss this application.

F

Hi and whitney again, basically, we got zoning approval.

F

Last month and um we're just locating an ac unit and then existing fencing was like a stockade.

F

Fence that wrapped around this back corner, that's gotten taken out during the construction and.

F

We're just replacing, as I've shown it on the site plan with a six foot, cedar fence.

F

Similar to what I've shown in the photograph there, and then the fence will return to the.

F

Building on the um on the back side to um enclose the ac unit, any questions, no okay um and then.

A

We do have a request to postpone, so why don't we throw those three, those three together in a motion.

C

I moved that we approve those three a second okay, we'll start with the roll call. Then rich.

A

Hi, karen, oh I'm dear sorry, you're blown this out dave, yes, reagan, aye, dan hi and johanna hi, okay,.

A

Chair bow tie okay, and that will be the end of the administrative approvals. Okay. Thank you very much.

A

um So john wyckoff ended up not joining us online, so both karen and johanna.

A

Will be voting unless otherwise were accused for specific reasons.

A

All right, uh so our next is a public hearing new business. This is a request by michael and.

A

Stephanie fibanio owners for a property located at 9 chief street, wherein permission is requested.

A

To allow exterior renovations to an existing structure, install garage door replace basement.

A

Windows and move slash, install hvac and equip electrical equipment. As for plans on file in.

A

The planning department said property is shown on assessor map 107, it's lot 713 and lies within.

A

The character district, 4 and historic districts and who's here to present hello. I am michael.

M

Fabonio from nine chief street welcome michael welcome. Thank you all for your time tonight.

M

um So we've been in once before for some approvals for windows and.

M

I think we talked about the the meters on the front of the building, so we're formally presenting.

M

The request to move the utility meetings from the front of the building to the rear of the building.

M

um Along with the the meters, the piping for the meters are going to plywood on the front.

M

Of the building, so just looking to replace the front basement windows with period correct.

M

um Three pane windows for the basement.

M

And then the uh the roof, we're looking to add two skylights to the front roof.

M

That's a street view of the roof from from chief street, so there is.

M

Really no no view of that from from the street at all for the skylights.

M

And then, while doing the skylights would replace the roof in kind with a black asphalt, shingles.

M

On the rear of the roof, we need to add a single vent pipe for a bathroom and a single.

M

I don't know what you'd call them the hoods for a for bathroom venting for the uh for the ear ear.

M

Removal, the moisture removal for the benefit of the members of the commission. This picture.

A

Was submitted later, it's not in your original package, it is so and that's the rear from customer.

M

So we are requesting uh the ability to add a garage to the to the rear building.

M

Which is currently [music] um living space, so I know there was a question about. um We are that.

M

Would be so so that is the the image of the garage superimposed and that would be on the facing my.

M

Side of massimo, I guess restaurant adjacent to to cirrus bakery and the uh I think we have a.

M

Sample of we did a couple of street views that are in there for with the.

M

Alley the alley view, so it would be, um I guess, facing north if you were.

M

So it'd be on the face of that that brick out building.

M

And then, with regards to hvac, so I'm proposing to uh put a heat pump system in for heat and air.

M

Conditioning and if you look at the picture there there's two skylights on that, I still call that.

M

Rear section of building the the shed, I'm not sure what it was originally, but so the the goal would.

M

Be to place it virtually between the skylights um in this laying in the same direction, so that.

M

You would be behind the chimney, so the from pen hollow it would kind of hide it behind the uh the.

M

Chimney so I I tried to take some pictures with something of similar size. Can you blow that up.

J

I don't know okay, thank you.

M

If I did so, I took something that was thank you virtually the same size and I placed it.

M

Two different directions, so so either going uh east and west or north and south okay. Well, I think.

M

And then, then also we could do screening as suggested by isaac. It's the garage door is.

C

Going to do here well we're taking a look at this I'll. Just asked quickly that chimney. That is, will.

A

Be hidden behind yep. Is it your chimney or the building next door yeah? So cirrus has a chimney.

M

That, in the pictures kind of you know, if you're in the right position, you can't barely see my.

M

Tuning but that isn't in my building, so it's on the abutting wall between the two buildings so.

M

A

Any questions while we're passing this: um if you don't mind, madam chairman, um can you walk.

B

Me through the installation of the garage door in the game in the end of the brick shed. Okay, so.

M

Ultimately, it will have to be engineered, but I wanted htc approval first, but the.

M

um I talked to a mason, so they would.

M

um He said it was a pretty simple application because it's a gable end for the wall, so.

M

I think this dimension dimensions on the sheet. It's, I think, uh seven, six by eight six is it.

C

Seven by eight six, so the so there would be a lost for words on what they call the the angle. Iron.

M

That they use above the door, so they they put the angle in and then they can basically remove the.

M

Bricks- and you know any brick above the doors now in the image that you provided us there's.

B

The door and the brick yep where's the metal eye angle iron goal. Oh, it would be.

M

Right above the the top of that uh door, it's literally like half inch steel, no.

B

No that'll, that's just not that's that's a dream of yours, maybe, but that you need a structural.

B

Element there, it's got to have it; well, typically, they go about on a door like that six inches.

M

Oh, so no it's! It's angle, iron! So it's not a single piece, so you're proposing to take the brick down.

B

And put the metal in and then relay the brick. No, so he they they literally slide. The angle in.

M

Before they take the wall down and the angle extends over the sides of where.

M

The the bricks will carry that and then then they take the bricks out.

B

And this bricks on the sides um you're just going to saw them so yeah. I think he just he just saw it.

M

Cut some straight down and then removes them out. Thank you. I believe rich has his hand up.

N

uh Thank you chair. um I'm a little concerned about the um the the hvc unit going on the.

N

Roof there I think, that's a little tall. um I know we're trying to hide it from the alleyway, so it.

N

Wouldn't be visible um if you're standing out on um it's a pinhole there, um but I'm I'm concerned.

N

That's a little tall and I'm concerned, there's not another location for that, possibly on the.

N

Side I got this thing that would be difficult to screen up there, but I don't know if that.

N

Could come back from administrative approval wow my concern, so the you know the screening, if you.

M

Have images on my phone but if, if you look out my windows across, I'm not sure if it's uh massimo.

M

Or the other one, but they basically have what looks like an upper deck area with um railing.

M

And all of their condensers and foot fans- and everything are above that so I mean it would be.

M

You know pretty similar similar look if, if we started at the chimney and and built a screen.

M

There uh I think it would be pretty limited to you from panama, because it would be a narrow view.

M

um Obviously, the people opposite that have the same type of setup would be able to see it more.

M

Clearly because it would be a flatter flatter face on that side, but it could certainly be screened to.

M

To have it not look like a a heat pump and how? How are you thinking of screening it.

M

um So the I think there's some examples of different screen.

M

Types, but if um if planning, has something in particular that they generally recommend for that.

M

um My thought would be to paint it black to match the the windows in the trim of the the building.

A

Other questions, maybe you can help me on this one isaac. Is there any building restrictions or zoning restrictions.

C

On how much space you need for that drive for the garage, it's a very narrow yeah. I would definitely.

D

Put anything big into that yeah I'd have to double check on that exact zone um and I can definitely.

D

Reach out to nick- and we can review that and just make sure that by zoning it's good to go before.

D

um We move too much more forward with it yeah it's it's a tight tight turning yeah.

D

um Speaking of which I do see, that nick does have his hand up for a question. It looks like.

D

You're gonna, let him yes. Can you hear me? Yes? Yes, okay, um that's a good question dan and.

O

There is no requirement for a certain setback for that garage, but obviously it needs to work.

O

So you would normally need at least 20 to 25 feet um in front of that garage to be able.

O

To make the swing to get in so I I would like to look at that, and I think commissioner adams.

O

Questions about the proposed garage door are good. Sorry, if I'm not coming in that clearly.

O

um I I think it makes sense uh supporting commissioner um laidlock as well, that.

O

Maybe in this case the hvac unit came back to administrative approval, so we can get a better.

O

Sense of whether that's the most appropriate location and what what screening actually makes.

O

Sense in that location and get better details on the the framing system around that garage door.

O

So I'll just offer that up yeah I mean I'm, I'm asking the htc for approval on the aesthetic.

M

Appearance of the door. Obviously I have to go through the building department with an engineer.

M

Within you know designed plans that uh that get approved, so it was just the the concept of.

M

Of the door there that I was looking for yes right, let's just say I find the concept of the.

E

Door there and the general design that you've presented, but I would like to stipulate that.

E

It would be made out of wood- oh yeah, okay, okay um and it may have to be custom made. But yours.

E

It's so right there in front of your face, we're going to see, so um I would think that.

E

Yeah, a wood construction would be more most appropriate, like I can assure you it'll look.

M

Better than the trash that the restaurants next door keep throwing in front of my proposed garage.

A

No questions, I I have a question also about the construction of the door. This is not a.

A

An overhead lifting door: these are going to be opening doors. No, it would be a garage door that.

M

Goes it is a garage door inside the building? Okay, I I have concerns about the aesthetic of.

A

This primarily the proportion of the door to what's left on either side of the door, which.

A

According to my calculations, is a foot on either side um because it said it says yeah, because the.

A

Dimensions say: 10, 6 and then the door is eight six, so that it seems to me that we're crowding.

A

Something rather big into something very, very small, um so I I have some concerns about that.

A

um Any questions or concerns about the window or any other well, I will just go back to say that I.

E

Was looking at this thinking, it was not an overhead door but was an actual swinging door.

E

Which may be difficult to pull off in that tight space, but um also think that that would I'm not.

E

Sure that the an overhead door would look all that appropriate in this location. So I think if you.

M

Go down further you'll see this has been done on custom way um at 17. chief street um here yeah, so.

H

Very, very, very similar situation. [music] um So are you talking about? Are you talking about the wooden.

A

Yeah the wooden edition on the back with the garage door. So it would be very similar to that to.

M

That setup that is currently there, that is a that, is a modern edition. Yeah, it's a modern edition and.

C

It's a modern garage door that naturally rolls up, I'm not sure how the door you picked, which I like.

M

Yeah, that's a roll up to it. Yeah there's no way to have them open. Logistically, there's no way it.

K

Would be, it would be impossible to do the swinging door yeah so um and not to continue to beat up the.

M

Alley, but having a door, there would be far better than what gets piled up there now, because it just.

M

Basically always has trash or milk crates or something thrown in that area. So I don't like.

M

I can appreciate your concern with the the width of the door in the frame, but I think that in the.

M

End, it's going to be better looking from pen hall than what what we're seeing in that alley now and.

A

You're intending to actually use this as a garage, so it needs to be that wide yeah, as opposed to.

A

Just using it as a storage space- and you just want a big door to be able to get in and out of because.

M

We all know there's no parking in portsmouth, so um I also have concerns with the the unit.

A

On top of this peaked building, I mean it seems odd to me that this is where you would locate.

A

It we see a lot of these things on roofs, but they tend to be flat or they tend to be on some.

A

They're not usually sitting right up on the top of the peak of a roof. If I'm reading your.

A

Your photographs correctly yeah, so it's a it's a it's a what you consider a shed dormer roof.

M

And that's why I propose to put it behind the chimney, because the chimney is probably eight.

M

Feet tall at that point, so it would be [music] um virtually behind behind the chimney from pen.

M

Hollow it would just be somebody on the opposite side, a custom way that would see see the face of.

A

It I hear I see you again and did you choose this location because it's the easiest in terms of.

M

um The mechanicals and getting it installed and running the lines or is there nowhere else on the.

A

Property to put the heat pump so the the lines um the hvac person had suggested it be against.

M

The building, but they do make quite a bit of noise and that's a bedroom, so it's always advised not to.

M

Have your heat pump against the bedroom wall, so it's virtually been moved out behind the chimney.

M

To get the the spot that would be, you know, make it most obscure from pen hollow um the the yard.

M

Is small and there's windows in in the yard, on both sides, 11 sheep and on nine chief? And it's.

M

My wife's listening, but she thinks it's going to be her dog play area and but it you know.

M

Ultimately, it may need to be a spot for a small car to park so um putting it on the.

M

Side of the brick building would eliminate any possibility of using that area to to park a car.

E

Holds like a special stand for it that will yeah, so we'd have to have a custom.

M

Stand built to follow the pitch of the roof, so it would sit sit level and on on the top.

M

Side, it would be, you know, maybe three or four inches off of the the roof and then.

M

The opposite, you know whatever the yeah. The angle is whatever the drop is to meet it, so it it would.

M

I I don't disagree that it's, but it's just a tough spot to do it and you know the other.

M

Option was not to have air conditioning and put ac units in all the windows which.

M

You know isn't appealing inside or outside, um so you know just trying to find a spot that.

M

That may work, um you know it would be nice if they built side-by-side units. That would do.

M

That but they seem to all be you know, standing units at this point for that type of design.

A

All right so dan, yes, one last, you say this block from penn hollow by the chimney, but.

C

The view was that little street custom lane or something like that- yeah, that's where it's going.

C

To be quite visible, yeah, that's where you're going to have the the screening screening so.

M

The the screen would basically start at the chimney and just come out around the front of.

M

It so there wouldn't be any view from uh the south because of the buildings. So if you came.

M

The chimney should block it pretty much from and hollow and then, if you came down custom way to.

M

Be a screen on the front of that, but I think I know from the pictures you can kind of see.

M

How it would look I just uh you know like I said, I cut something diameter to be see the.

M

The same size so that you could have some idea of of how much space it would take up.

A

All right, so any other questions all right. So in this application we have basement window.

A

Electric meters skylights the new roof and then the semi-controversial things. I guess the garage.

A

Door and the heat pump um any I I yes nick- has his hand nick has his hand up nick yeah. I just wanted.

O

To let everybody know, I'm I feel like that rooftop location is, is definitely challenging to screen. I.

O

Think everybody's realizing that I believe it's going to have to be at least 18 inches off the.

O

Roof for snow loads and the units about three feet tall, so you've got a structure. That's three four.

O

And a half to five feet by the time you screen it. So it's going to be a pretty big box up there.

O

And again, I would just encourage given this is a work session, slash public hearing that.

O

Maybe just get pulled out and we can work with the applicant to come back in at the.

O

First meeting in march, with something a little more definitive that might be more appropriate.

O

But at least understandable in respect to the the condenser location and I do the same on the door.

O

If that was helpful, but I'll leave that to you yeah, that was my suggestion that we wait until.

A

You ascertained that there's the possibility of putting the door there before we go too.

A

Much further on that, so what and in which regard with regards to building permits, we have whatever.

A

Nick has to be approved so that we know we can. We know the applicant can actually put a door here.

E

Or maybe all I'm suggesting is that the commission should you move forward. I think this was listed.

O

As a work session, slash public hearing, if you're comfortable with most components tonight, you can.

O

Vote that we bifurcate the application or stipulate that these one or two items come.

O

Back for administrative approval, he'd still be able to pursue his building permit for the.

O

Items at which you approve and the building department would hold back the condenser and.

O

Perhaps the garage door until you approve that administrative approval next month.

M

That I ask so what do I need to provide for the? I understand the rooftop unit, the concern there, but.

M

What would you be looking for with regards to the garage door because it's it's? That's that's what.

M

It's going to look like, I think I think two or three issues have been raised. One is, do you have.

A

The turning radius required in order to have the door there. uh Mr adams, has raised concerns about.

A

The structural issues, and if we could have a little more detail on how that the last thing.

A

We want is to have that wall collapse, so if we could have a little more information on that.

A

um And then oh, it's going to work being a a rising door, uh whatever they're called overhead door.

B

Not to anyway, uh it actually has to be completely inside of the building, because it can't rise in.

B

The region of the brick wall and I'm going to guess that that brick wall at least eight inches.

B

At least eight inches thick, it took two courses of brick, so it's going to be fully inside of that.

B

um I, if you, madam chairman, just for a moment, is suggests that uh I see a bunch of issues here.

B

um That, I think, should be formally addressed. One is clearly, as mr krakno alluded to the chosen.

B

Location for the ac unit is is even at best a poor candidate for screening. I can't think of.

B

The screening that one would provide that makes any sense at all perched three feet off a roof.

B

It seems like a non-starter to me. The guy's got a couple of brick masonry walls that he could mount.

B

The thing on, if he's, bound and determined to have this, and he should use that rather than hanging.

B

It in space- I don't see anything that tells me where the skylights are on this. This the proposed.

B

Skylights at all hype off the eve or spacing side to side. uh I know that very few people are going.

B

To see them, but they should be in a place that makes some sort of architectural sense and the.

B

Garage door is tight as that that area is there's. No, no actual reason why you can't have a garage.

B

Door, even if he can't put his car in it, it's not a requirement, but on the other hand, I don't I'm.

B

No way going to support this garage door between the installation of the angle iron, the soaring of.

B

The masonry opening the fact that the building isn't flat level or square and they, along with.

B

The brickwork that he has to cut through he has to cut through a portion of the foundation to be.

B

Able to utilize the door as a garage. uh I think that it puts the building itself in peril and.

B

Is that nice little early 19th century shed that we will lose because we were being enthusiastic.

B

About an applicant I'm not going to support any of it now and probably the door never.

A

Session, slash public hearing, you could take the.

A

Option, I believe of we can close the work session move to a public hearing and you can specifically.

A

Ask for the things that you'd like to move ahead and that the commission can support. And then you.

A

Could come back with more information, more details on things that perhaps are more problematic.

A

What would you like to do so? So um the only thing, I'm again, I understand the.

M

Concern with the heat pump and I'll look at I'll talk to the hvac guy and see if.

M

You know what the cost difference is if you did two units and they were smaller and they.

M

Could go on the side of the the shed um short of spending the money to have an engineer, design.

M

Garage door, so that you feel comfortable that it's not going to affect the building.

M

um I don't think that's fair, that I have to have an engineer, design it and say that it's safe.

M

And then have dave say that he isn't supported because it's not safe. So I guess my concern is.

M

Aesthetically there's a garage door work and I should use an engineer that has to.

M

Design it and obviously if he can't design it to make sure that the structure is safe.

M

And that it's actually usable, then I'm not going to spend the money to to um put in a garage door.

M

Because he tells me it's impossible, so I guess that's. My only hang up is that we're concerned.

M

About structural issues, which may not even get permitted, if an engineer doesn't provide.

M

Design activities building inspector that he's he approved, so I think we're stuck between looks in.

M

Structure and I'm not here for structure, I'm just here to say I'd like to move forward and see if.

M

I can have an engineer design this to provide structural, a structure that would would manage.

M

This garage door, but again this is a gable wall, so there is no. There is no load on that wall. The.

M

Side walls carry all the load. The roof trusses run up the up the slope of the hill of of the roof, so.

M

um I guess I'd ask if an engineer says it's good. An inspection says.

M

They approve it that you know you guys are good with the appearance of the door.

E

Yes, I think, then, in that case, what nick is suggesting is for me. It would be acceptable again.

E

Like you were saying, just approve the aesthetic of the door but asked for him to come back for.

E

Administrative approval just to show us more details once you get them from your structural.

E

Engineer and once you get the approval from a you, know the city to make sure with the contingency.

M

That you guys see it before it gets approved exactly that before you build it. You know you.

E

Bring back your details and the specifications for the exact door and all of those things.

E

I I mean I can I can I'm okay with moving forward to say I am fine with the idea of a garage door.

E

In this location, so yeah, that's all that's really just what I'm looking for, because I don't want to.

M

Spend the money because the engine is going to be expensive. If you guys say we don't like.

E

It sure, and if you get to the point where somebody comes in or even the city that.

E

Says this, is we don't think that you can put in a giant doorway here then you're not going.

E

To do it right, yeah I've talked to shanti about it, so I showed him the pictures and.

M

He didn't freak out about it at any level, but I just I mentioned to him as well. You know what.

M

I need an engineer to design it to bring it to to uh permitting before I could do anything so.

A

In work session, I I have to say that I have reservations about turning a shed.

A

Into a garage and and the size of the door, so um we're not voting, but you you wanted the.

A

Temperature of the tuition, so I'm giving you my my thoughts. Anybody else want to share anything.

A

Okay, so we're still in work session right. Do we still need to hear from them yeah? We should still.

A

Hear from the public anybody in the public wishing to make comment on this work session.

A

No okay, we're going to close the work session and move into a public hearing. So the question now is.

A

um Exactly what are you requesting approval for during the public hearing.

M

um So, based on the conversation, uh the items that I I'd like to hear on the.

M

um Everything, with the exception of the heat pump location um in the stipulation that if the door is approved, aesthetically it's going to have to.

M

Come back before you once it's designed in the building inspector has teamed it uh reasonable.

M

So that you can see the you know how the structure is going to be managed from a.

A

So the request is to approve the basement windows, the electric meters, the two skylights.

A

Which david do you want an admin approval for exact location.

B

That would be appropriate. Yes, thank you. um The new roofing, the uh venting from the bathroom. If.

A

I recall yes, uh so those are the items that you would like approval from for tonight with the.

A

Stipulation that the location of the skylights come back for approval admin, approval and then.

A

The garage door and the heat pump are will not be included in the request for tonight's approval.

M

um I I again, I just don't know what you want me to give you on the on the garage door. I think the.

E

He's asking for the location and sort of idea of the garage door, the aesthetic of the garage door.

A

With okay, so the only thing that not you're not requesting for approval tonight is the heat pump.

M

That's accurate. I think that gave enough information for someone to make a motion or not.

D

I I do. I just want to say one things. I do believe that there was a stipulation um for the.

D

Garage doors um coming back that the applicant.

D

Just provides the details after the building department has blessed them.

D

I'll make that I don't know.

K

Just the aesthetics and the location, but he has a lot more hurdles to jump through over.

A

Right um before the motion, I should say anyone from the public wishing to speak.

A

To this public hearing, no, we will close the public hearing and emotion. Please.

E

I'll move that we approve this application, as presented as as he's presented, which does not.

E

Include the heat pump and only includes the sort of idea of the garage door, the location.

E

And the aesthetic and the stipulation that if you move forward with a garage door, all.

E

Details and specifications be brought to us, at least through administrative google,.

D

And administrative approval for these things, yes and exact location as well.

E

It's okay. um I will just say that this has conservation and enhancement of property values.

E

I think, first of all, we're all going to be very excited to see all of the electrical meters and.

E

Everything go off the front of that building um and we have um in relation to historic and.

E

Architectural value of the existing structure, actually, let's scratch that I'm going to go with.

E

Compatibility of design and surrounding properties we'll do a roll call vote, starting with rich.

A

P

Dave opposed johanna, hi, dan hi hi and the chair votes no.

Q

It's four to two chances.

H

Thank you thanks.

A

Okay, so public hearings, old business uh first is a request to postpone petition of 43 homes.

A

Court llc owner for property located at 43 holmes court, where information is.

A

Requested to allow the red demolition of the existing home and construction of a new home.

A

um I'm going to stop right there, because um this has been requested. The applicant has informally.

A

Requested this be withdrawn, but didn't get the paperwork in and uh because this has dragged on.

A

For quite some time, it's a major construction. We wanted to be sure that the rest of the neighbors.

A

Would be notified again when this is ready to actually move forward. But since it's worded.

A

As a request to postpone, we need to deny it if that's a move, that we deny the request postpone.

E

For public hearing a second and we'll do a roll call vote rich.

A

Hi, karen hi dave, hi reagan, hi, hey, I'm sorry, johanna, okay and I vote bye.

A

All right, so that takes us to seacoast management, consulting llc owner for property located at 3.

A

Walton alley, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

A

Replace bulkhead replace drum windows and stairs as per plants on file on the planning department.

A

Said property shown on assessor map 103 a lot as lot 20 and lies within the general.

A

Residence b and historic districts dave has recused himself and karen are you also.

Q

I'm okay, you're, okay, okay, uh who's here to present lisa messina owner of three.

R

Walton alley hello, welcome hello, so um we'd like to run through the application, as it.

A

Stands right now because I know there's been some changes since our previous meetings. Yes,.

R

So the windows, the rear kitchen windows we discussed last time, I had requested a picture.

R

Window that was six by four, and we the board, wanted to see that broken into two windows with.

R

Emollient between them, so we've I've broken that up and I've actually gone smaller with the window.

R

As well, making it a 5x4 keeping it in line with the door, that's already existing the rear door.

R

With the window where it is now.

D

It's our little technical glitch, my apologies, everyone.

D

N

Okay, all right.

R

So there's the diagram of it there, the windows being broken into two.

R

And a four by the five by four window, all together, it's 27 and like three quarters or something and.

R

Woken up, um then the staircase you would wanted to see a drawing of how I wanted them to come.

R

Out, instead of alongside the house- and I have those just coming straight out into the yard.

R

They would be wood with a wood railing that is within stays with the style of the the home.

R

The bulkhead doors are there to the left. Those are rotting.

R

You see the rot there on the bulkhead doors and leaking so those we would just want to rebuild.

R

Out a tyvek and paint them but use the same hardware- that's seen there, so it would look.

R

The same, it would just be built out of a composite material due to weather conditions in new england.

R

And so that's just to repair that to replace it probably painted green is the one right there.

R

That's the ac unit in the corner there. That would be.

R

Have the screen of the little spruce, dwarf, spruce trees are in front of that.

R

These are the anderson windows, they're, wood, interior and vinyl outside, but there.

R

Are individual lights, elo, glass and wood grills on the inside and outside.

E

So your upstairs is two double hung: windows there, two dot; yes, okay, they're, not casements or anything.

R

Yes, six over six chlorine, I'm just going to make it make it clear here in case anybody.

E

Who sees this application freaks out that the anderson 400 windows are not vinyl clad because.

R

We don't no they're except final, but it's listed on here that it's covered with final. It's a it's a.

E

Fibrex material, so, okay, thank you. Thank you. um Yes, there very beautiful windows. This is showing the.

R

Staircase and the pipes coming out of the house, we've had a new gas furnace put in, and the plumber.

R

Had to vent that out right there, so we'd like to turn the stairs straight into the yard, as opposed.

R

To running down right in front of the pipes there, they are also in need of repair as well placed.

R

Just a picture of a wood staircase coming down and what it would.

R

Essentially be like the door would be there, there'd be a small area to the right of the.

R

Door, the measurements are on the drawing and there would be screening around the bottom.

R

These are the current storm windows that are, some of them are broken. I took a picture of the.

R

Glass- I can't actually see it from here, but um they're, pretty old and they're. Just double hung.

R

The double hung double track. I mean storm windows and I'd like to replace those with a low e-glass.

R

For efficiency- and I think that and they're just also they don't work very well.

R

Square inside the window and those I already would replace, with either larson or an ally.

R

Double track window and I think the dimensions on those they would protrude. Probably I think it's.

R

One and an eighth to one and a half maximum protrusion in the windows or the storms.

R

Any questions they're better than the aluminums yeah questions with your new furnace you're moving.

C

The vents over and I'll give you room for the air conditioning pump. No, the air conditioner would be.

R

Further far enough away from the it's located far enough away that it's safe per code, the camera.

C

Picture has the vents right on the corner right that, I think, is just that's a different bed. That's.

R

Not the gas vent, I think the gas fun is closer to the yeah yeah. I believe it's right there, yeah okay.

R

The ac unit we didn't discuss that I talked to dana toby about that. The plumbing inspector and.

R

He looked through the specs of the ac unit and it cannot go under the stairs.

R

um The elevation of the house is just not tall enough with the door to put it under the stairs.

R

So I'm still requesting to put it in that right corner right there. I think it's the furthest from.

R

The homes and adjacent to my house- and I think it's also less visible than any other spot in.

R

The house and on the left side of the house, the only other there's only one other option.

R

Is to the left of the bulkheads, and there is a gas meter there and some piping as well so.

A

Any other questions online. Yes, do you have any um specs on the stairs the balusters that you're.

Q

Planning on using, or you know, I did include all the measurements, the width of the stairs.

R

It would be your basic woods. There's the measurements there on how wide the stairs are.

R

And I think there's five of them. I think total there 'd be to code wood stairs to code.

R

I'd have them finish nicely. I guess we usually ask for the design of what the railings and the.

E

Balusters and everything will look like we can well. I did want to stick with what I had.

R

Originally said that I would just replace what's there with the lattice, and I can still do that.

R

But you wanted to see what that would look like coming out straight. Oh so, you're going.

R

To just stick with the ladder just showing what the stairs look like coming out straight.

R

Yes and then there's a rail at the lattice sides: okay or it could be wood rails. I I'm.

R

Happy to whatever the board suggests, I'm happy to construct them. That way, because trying to.

R

Find pictures of this style house with the back steps was very difficult. They couldn't find what.

R

The style would actually be. I think it's very simple, I think you know just a very simple wood.

E

Staircase square square stock posts and balusters is probably that would be fine all you need and.

E

We can probably stipulate that and ask for administrative approval, even if we need to.

A

Other questions online rich, yes, thank you, chair um yeah, I was going to say.

N

The same thing about the railing um I was thinking either it could match the.

N

Other picture provided with the green siding there or um or I could come back.

D

I just have one question: um I noticed um you said you were planning on doing the rear, stairs.

D

And wood, I do see on the diagram it says pvc um painted. um I just want to clarify and make sure.

D

That you are going to use a wood on that you can use the wood. I heard you on the last the previous.

R

Person saying that you would prefer wood. Okay, just just want to clarify. Basically carpenter, prefers.

R

The wood composite and if you paint it he says it looks the same and it's just better it'll last.

R

Longer but I'm fine with keeping them all wood sure I mean this is the back of the house. I think.

E

We're just we just wanted to know one way or the other and square stock is also I'm fine with that.

A

um The only concern I have is the screening. um You would probably take very good care of your.

A

Vegetative screening, however, you may not be there all the time and you may not be there.

A

10 years from now, so my preference would be to have some sort of lattice lattice and we.

A

Have several samples that you can get from isaac, all of which would be acceptable and.

A

Then, if you want to put your nice bushes around the edge that way, if anything happens to them,.

A

You still have that screening that works, okay, any other questions or concerns anybody has.

D

um I just wanted to ask the placement of the ac: um has that been checked out by zoning zba.

D

Just to make sure that it's fitting within side setbacks and all that, it's not within now the.

R

Setbacks are I have to get the variance okay, so I did file the application. I tried to call stephanie.

R

Today, I think there was something missing. Okay, I'm gonna be working with her to get approval.

R

For that I know the neighbor james woods. Next door is fine with it being there he's putting up a new.

R

Fans, I think it's another six foot standard and she's also putting a garage on that's on.

R

The other side- yes, so we'll just stipulate, then um that you know we won't maybe fully fully uh it'll.

D

Be approved, but I will wait for the voa approval as well for that: okay, okay, any other questions.

A

Right anybody in the public wishing to speak to this application.

A

All right, we'll close the public hearing and await emotions.

E

I'll move that we approve this application with the stipulations that um the the.

E

Stairs and railings be made of wood and be of basic square stock, or, if you want to do anything.

E

Different, it just comes back to administrative approval um and that the ac compressor be screened.

E

With some sort of lattice screening, what else do we have for another? I think that was emulations.

D

um And that the condenser will just be contingent upon voa approval for the location right.

E

So I guess that's great. Thank you dan. Any other discussion before we hear the.

E

Findings effect, oh right, um so this has um conservation enhancement of.

E

Property values and compatibility of design with surrounding properties.

A

Okay, roll call vote we'll start with johanna this time, hi hi again erin.

A

Aye and rich hi and the chair bow tie very good all right. Thank you very much.

A

Okay, uh we are on to see petition of chatham property, chatham portsmouth.

A

Llc chatham lodging trust owners for property located at 100 high street, where in permission.

A

Is requested to allow the installation of mechanical equipment on the roof of the.

A

Existing structure as per plants on the file in the planning department, said property is shown on.

A

Assessor map 118 as lot 30 and lies within the character district, five, downtown overlay and.

A

Historic districts, I believe we have someone online for that. I'm I'm actually not seeing.

D

um The app if the applicant is on zoom, if you could raise your hand for me.

E

Hold on and we could yeah come back to that one push this to the end of the agenda. Just.

E

In case okay, okay, we will postpone this item until the end of the agenda, all right that.

A

Brings us to d petition, yes, wait! A second two! Maybe I think um sorry, I think the applicant.

D

Has just actually jumped on to the meeting um one? Second, let me just see if I can get them.

D

Oh great, okay,.

B

Do we have to lift that redirection or we never actually voted on? It said: okay,.

H

D

All right megan: can you hear us you're, currently muted.

R

Can you hear me now? Yes, yes, perfect? Okay, if you would introduce yourself, please.

S

Yes, hi, I'm megan mosley. I represent this wireless and um I'm here to talk about our installation.

A

Okay, um now you were with us last month and we asked you to look into relocating.

A

um Some of these pieces of equipment, if you just want to run through where.

A

We ended up with those locations. I think that would move us along.

S

Yes, yes, absolutely! So what we change was we moved alpha and beta if you scroll down.

S

This is the updated view right there alpha and beta were moved back as far as they could go.

S

As you see there, alpha is 13 feet back from high street and 21 feet back from garden way and then.

S

Yeah, it's that top one there alpha and then the one in the corner there is beta and that.

S

Was pushed back 13 feet from high street and 18 feet from hanover street, so I talked to the.

S

A e firm that is, as far back as we can push it without it getting in the way of their signal.

S

So that you know, if we push it any further back, it will be closer to the other side of.

S

The street, as he said to me today, so um that is the best location for those and it should give.

S

Good signal, but won't be as prominent on the street view, and we also asked for him to add.

S

The paint to match on each one just so you guys are aware that we know that we have to paint.

S

It to match the building, so it blends in um so it's lots of um you know a view from the street.

S

Excuse me, the only other thing is gamma, so gamma couldn't be moved where.

S

We talked about last meeting because the signal would actually be blocked.

S

So they did propose to actually attach it to the screen frame in that area. I don't know if that.

S

Would actually be better or worse in your eyes, we can either keep it, as is on the sleds mount.

S

Or we can mount it to this frame, we could paint it to match so it would blend in um so whatever.

S

You suggest we will go with, but that was our only other option. We couldn't move the whole sled mouse.

A

Any questions, those are the updates.

A

Questions or concerns.

A

No okay, I appreciate them moving the other two is back as far back as they could. um I I'm thinking.

E

Probably having them mount this on pre-existing equipment is better than adding new equipment, so.

E

I think, all together, this is a better application than we saw last month, so just appreciate that.

E

That extra work, thank you that the application of some screening paint uh sounds like a dream.

Q

Okay, all right. Anyone in the public wishing to make comment or question on this.

A

All right, we'll close the public hearing and I wait a motion.

C

I'll make a notion that we accept this new design and, uh let's present with the uh with the one.

A

Gamma against the screen: yes, okay against the screen; a second, a second okay, finding's, a fact.

E

Something about technology, there's a technology one in there, architecture.

D

Okay, should we want to add a stipulation, even though they said they would paint everything just.

D

To have it written down, it's definitely painted okay, sure I'll I'll, be okay, just to keep it clean.

E

Are you, okay with adding the stipulation that everything be painted? Yes, yes, absolutely. Okay,.

C

It's gonna, I I believe it's going to conserve and enhance the property values.

C

uh There's and it's compatible within innovative technologies with the surrounding properties.

A

Okay, we'll do a vote then rich.

A

Hi karen aye dave, hi reagan, hi pam, hi, johanna and chair roadside sick, okay. So now moving on to item.

A

D petition of susanna barber and kim marie poldrack owners for property located at 28.

A

Newcastle avenue, wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing.

A

Structure, new siding windows, doors, new front porch, stairs and new rear deck and new construction to.

A

An existing structure at a one-story addition over existing for rear first floor footprint as.

A

Per plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 101.

A

As lot 34 and lies within the single residence b and historic districts and who's here today,.

T

Hi, I'm lee mccaffrey, I'm the architect. Welcome! I'm from mcgavin design. We've tried to provide much.

T

More material than we did last time, we've tried to give every detail that we could predict. You might.

T

Be asking about so I hope you find this package more thorough and um more to your liking than the.

T

Last one, um if you don't mind, if we could start with the next one, we've tried to document some.

T

Other similar houses in the area, they really are sort of sprinkled all through town and once you.

T

Start seeing them believe me, you can't stop seeing them um it's interesting. It's a real.

T

Prototype we're referring to it as a foursquare it you know whether or not this particular house.

T

Was a sears house or not, we don't know my client aaron who's here with us tonight. Looked at the.

T

Athenium and looked at the the public library for any record of the house and what it looked.

T

Like pre-1970 and she could not come up with any images, is unfortunately, so when we look at all the.

T

Images through town and and beyond town, even in as I drive around the state of new hampshire there's.

T

A tremendous variety of these types of foursquares they one thing they all have in common- is the hip.

T

Roof and the square shape of the house and the generally the proportions of the porch. But in.

T

Terms of the detailing from there in particular on the porch there's tremendous variety, there's.

T

Lots of different kinds of columns, there's lots of different kinds of peers up to the columns there.

T

Are lots of different types of finishes? They do tend to typically be, as you can see from these.

T

Examples sort of divided halfway with either band or some definition in change of material. I think.

T

These show that fairly well, even and these are all in the immediate neighborhood or not all sorry,.

T

Most, the majority of them are within a block or two. I do have one example. That's outside of town.

T

And then there's the older examples of the sears houses, their countless number of the four squares.

T

I picked a screenshot that happened to have four in one just to show some of the variety.

T

If you go on to the next one, um really, what we're proposing here is an addition at the at.

T

The back the above the 1970s edition, which is shown in green. So when you look at the scale.

T

Of the massing house and scale and massing of the house, I want to point out that we.

T

Are not touching the original house in terms of its scale and its massing, there's a large.

T

Addition that was done at the back in the 1970s and at the front, the porch, whatever it.

T

Was originally was completely enclosed? If you look down, I I show the red in red I'm showing.

T

um Both two things, one is wherever we're: proposing a new roof, we're trying to match.

T

The pitch of the existing roof and in terms of the massing of the new roof at the back, we're.

T

Making it smaller we're trying to break down the massing so that the original volume of the.

T

Original house is prominent and the additions at the back become secondary to the main house.

T

um And if you look at the materials gets quite involved. So if we're ready to delve deep into the.

T

Materials, I'm ready to go there if you are um stay on the same sheet, because it's all to the right.

T

Let me just take a moment then and ask, and anybody has any questions or.

A

Concerns about the basic massing and style or details of the addition in.

A

All right go ahead. Well, and I just I forgot to point out. I pointed this out last time so.

T

I'm sure you're aware of it, but in terms of the second floor, what we tried to do.

T

In addition to breaking down, the masking is pull in where the new second floor meets the.

T

Original second floor, so that there's a clear distinction between what is old and what is new.

T

um Okay, so materials. What we're trying to do is um to the extent possible, keep all the materials in.

T

The front of the house the same as what they are as what they would have been originally.

T

um There were some questions last time we met about the soffit and the fascia, so I've tried.

T

To be clear, that we'll try and match the what I believe to be without getting up on a 30-foot.

T

Ladder and measuring it myself, a one by a one by six wood fascia board with a what I believe.

T

To be again without getting on the 30-foot ladder, myself about an 18 inch, deep, soffit or eve, and it.

T

Appears as though it's all wood plywood at the eve, and we would match that or replace as necessary, it.

T

Doesn't seem it seems to be in relatively good condition, so we will keep everything.

T

That we can keep there is a bed molding around it. We will keep that as well. If we can, we will.

T

Replace in kind with a wood material if we need to, but our intention is just to paint it really.

T

um And then, wherever we're doing something new, um the back proof, we intend to match that in its.

T

Details uh the freeze board will not match exactly because the height of the windows is a little bit.

T

Different um there's a second floor step up at the back, which forces the windows up just a tad which.

T

Means the freeze board will be like a little bit smaller, but that's in the new edition everything.

T

In the front edition, in terms of eve, soffit freeze board will all stay exactly the same. Hopefully,.

T

It'll be no changes at all. You've. Adjusting the size of the freeze board allows you to keep the.

B

Roof edge the same on the addition, as on the house, correct yep, all the eve lines will will match yep.

T

um Siding was a clear issue last time because we had that band. That was, um I got a clear.

T

Impression it was not looked unfavorably, so we removed that, and now it's very much in kind with.

T

um In keeping with what you see everywhere, it's it's the well we're proposing the collabores.

T

um And the shingles above, but I will say that since I've submitted these drawings.

T

um The builder has been able to uncover more shingles and we would try to keep more of.

T

The shingles, if, if we could so, we would have shingles on top of shingles, we would still we.

T

Don't know whether or not there's an original band um at the halfway point, but we would like.

T

To introduce that, if there is not, um I don't, I would challenge you to find many houses that.

T

Aren't covered in asbestos siding that are of this style that don't have some sort of.

T

Differentiation between the two materials, so you found that so you've uncovered that it is.

E

um Shingle on both the first and second floor. Well, actually, I'm not sure we've revealed the shingles.

T

Up to the second floor, but more at the first floor there is shingles, okay, yeah yeah. We would.

T

Probably still paint them two different colors, so it wouldn't be what you're proposing here, which.

E

Is the collaborate on the first floor? You just do shingle, that's correct. If we continue to find.

T

As as the um the the aluminum siding is removed that it is in good condition, yeah great yep, yep.

T

Where we set back on the second floor in the addition, we are.

T

Continuing to propose the paneling, but we have found precedent for that in the neighborhood on a.

T

um On a house, that's almost identical right down the street where they have a couple.

T

Bays that have that paneling, so I would argue that that's uh very appropriate to this style.

T

Even though it's at the back of the house anyway,.

T

um The windows: well, I have a separate sheet for the windows, so you know, if you have any questions.

T

At this point, we could go ahead and talk about the porch and then we'll talk about the windows.

T

So if you want to go up a sheet isaac.

T

So the porch um I did get down in under the porch to see where there might be some.

T

Structure to see if there was any revelations about where the existing columns may have been.

T

The only thing I learned was that there is a set of double loudly columns that are old and resting.

T

Unfortunately, that need to be replaced but they're supporting a beam. That's halfway down the porch, so.

T

If I was to find justification for any existing columns, it would have been probably in that.

T

Location, I would also argue that if you divided any other way, if you divide it into fours, you've.

T

Got then a column both smack in front of the doorway and smack in front of the window. So.

T

This would probably be the way they would have done it in terms of in terms of the divisions.

T

um We also are still proposing the stone piers with the tapered columns, because again, when you.

T

Look at these houses and I have another example of a house on state street um that that aaron just.

T

Came up with um where it's yet again different, it's solid with shingles all the way around and.

T

Very very narrow, double tapered columns, so the variety in how the porches were treated seemed to.

T

Be probably if this was in fact a sears house, it may have been one of these things you picked from.

T

A catalog and you just choose how to decorate it may have been as simple as that. I don't know that.

T

But I guess what I'm saying is that if there's any opportunity to have a little bit of fun with this.

T

House and be a little bit expressive, they would have done that back then, and I'm suggesting we.

T

Do that again now, so what we would do is find stones to build the pier that look as close to.

T

The foundation as possible, it is a you know, stone, essentially rubble a foundation all the way around.

T

We've gone to some stone yards, but we don't have a mason on the project yet and some of the stone.

T

Yarns aren't up to stock it being the dead of winter, so we hope to have a sample to bring you.

T

But we do not have that, but we would be happy to come back for administrative approval of you.

T

Know what that stone would look like if that is something that you were agreeable with. I have a.

K

About those stones being a veneer you're talking about actual whole stone that you would use well.

T

To be honest, I'm not sure it would be practical to build the way build it. The way they built it back.

T

Then, and- and I don't have a full answer to that- because I would really love to get a mason's input.

T

um Oftentimes, what they do is they cut those stones in half, so you can build a.

T

um A concrete, a cmu pier for the for the columns and which ultimately support the roof.

T

And then you attach the half, um and I believe me if, if it were practical to do a real stone.

T

um Pier, I would support of that. I'm I'm a bit of a pierce in that sense myself, but.

T

A there's cost and b there's structural integrity.

T

um And also geez, I don't know how many masons actually do that anymore um and to get an engineer.

T

To approve it, so the answer to your question is likely not, um but we would do our darndest to get.

T

Something that matched and looked as authentic as possible to to coordinate it with the foundation.

H

Thank you, okay, um any other questions on the porch, oh and one more point I'll just point out that.

T

We would um we plan to do a bead board ceiling with a natural finish, as the picture indicates.

T

um Okay windows.

T

I first just want to point out that most of the original windows remain exactly in their existing.

T

Locations there are a couple locations where we propose changing um the existing openings. Sorry.

T

uh The front stays exactly the same: we're keeping the original front door and side lights. We think.

T

They're lovely all the hardware will stay the same. We have no intention of touching that they're on.

T

The west elevation you'll see we're removing the basement door and that's for what we think is a.

T

Very good reason, because the main entry is really from the garage, that's in the 70s edition and so.

T

You park your car there and then you go through the old basement and up a very set of a set of.

T

Very old stairs and those stairs are going to be reconstructed and for very good reason. Don't have.

T

A picture of them for some reason it didn't occur to me to do that, but trust me there's.

T

Head bumping, there's very um antiquated stair treads and risers they're, not up to code at all.

T

So we're going to need to reconstruct them once we reconstruct them. The landing is no longer at.

T

The location of the door and so that exterior door to the basement no longer makes sense. So we would.

T

Like to remove that door, the window on the second floor geez to get the floor plan to work as we'd.

T

Like we're just going to move that 14 inches and then there's the new entry, we're adding one new.

T

Opening there, for uh so that the bathroom can have a window and then the 1970s old, casements.

T

That are currently in the kitchen we're removing those and replacing those with a new door which.

T

Is where the new side porch is? I have a quick question on the window that you're moving over.

E

Are you just going to retain that same historic window and reuse it all the windows are being.

E

Replaced, oh okay, oh you're! Just talking about the open, the opening itself, gotcha yeah, just so.

T

That's what I thought I was confused. I thought that they that there were no historic windows.

E

Left so no that makes sense. No, it's definitely not they're they're 70s, vinyl, yep, yep yeah.

T

um And then, and then these other um drawings just illustrate that we're really just trying to we're.

T

We're using the existing um windows sizes and proportions and mimicking that at the rear of.

T

The house so that there's continuity with the addition and and taking the 1970s openings.

T

Which are, you know, essentially squares with two casements and we're reproportioning all.

T

Of those so that they're more in keeping with the original with the original house.

T

um We are proposing at the front of the house to keep as we can all the original casing, including.

T

The band molding that goes around the windows, um you see a picture. I provided a random, a shot.

T

Of a random window, the sill may need some work, but the the casing and the band molding look in.

T

Okay shape, so our intention is to to keep that for the front of the house. We do not intend to.

T

Repeat that detail at the back of the house for two reasons: one because the cost of the project.

T

Is is getting exorbitant and we would like to for those. So that's we could save some money by.

T

Not doing the same detailing at the back windows of the new edition and also because personally.

T

I feel like it's nice to differentiate the old house from the new house and I think the more.

T

You keep the original details, it accentuates the craftsmanship of the original house and it makes.

T

Clear that the older house is new, so that is our intention with the windows and they're all.

T

As we spoke about last time, they're marvin elevate windows, um any questions about that.

T

um And and- and I would that really kind of closes um what I have to share with.

T

You um if there are any details that I've missed, um we would be happy to address.

T

Them I did bring a sample of the mahogany railing that we would be using on the porch.

T

um And uh you know, I specify solid cedar posts for the front porch and the side porch.

T

um And I'd be happy to entertain any questions from there. Okay, any questions.

K

It's not a question per se, but um I just want to congratulate you. I think your design is fantastic.

K

And I'm particularly happy because I walk by there almost every day, okay, so I'm very happy.

K

That you've upcycled it with so much thought, um and I just and I I am reassured too that you're.

K

You seem to be very cognizant about the um realism that you can lose if you go to the veneer and.

K

Because that that's the only thing that concerns me, I've seen and I know how expensive this is.

K

I've seen really expensive projects where they kind of fall down when it comes to the masonry.

K

So um I think you're going to make some really good choices there too really. Thank you. I hope so.

C

Foreign, I agree: you've done a nice job. It also does a nice job for the.

C

Neighborhood because most of the houses around it have been updated. Everybody's.

C

Getting rid of the asbestos, and- and so it's really good do a lot for the neighborhood too.

A

um I was a little concerned about the size of the porch on the side relative to the.

A

Primary entrance and while I understand that most people don't use their primary entrance.

A

As their entrance architecturally, it is the primary entrance. I was not really clear from.

A

Your drawings, how the the size differential between these could you speak perhaps to that.

T

hmm um Well, I could speak to it by looking up the dimensions. If that's, if that's what you.

T

Which I wasn't, maybe I just missed them so yeah yeah. Let me just make sure that I do have them.

A

T

uh It's 10 by um essentially eight okay and you know what that actually dimension.

T

Is actually derived from it's actually derived from the porch? That's there now.

T

um It's for no particular reason it was that dimension slid over. It makes for a nice entry.

T

Proportionally it seemed to work.

K

Yeah I mean I don't really know what more to to say about that.

A

So it looks nice, so the front porch was about eight feet deep and that's how this.

A

Came to be eight feet deep. No, the the porch that was being is on the 1970s.

T

Edition at the back, which is being removed, uh these are essentially those dimensions.

T

um The original the original porch yeah, you know, I'm sorry, my apologies. I tend not.

T

To dimension what's already existing, but that is probably about eight by.

T

um The width of the house, which is 24 feet.

T

So this is eight by ten.

A

And the porch that is off the back uh just looking at the.

A

Renderings, it just seems like a very simple baluster, very, very simple, okay and I think.

A

We touched briefly last time on the chimney that is being repurposed and therefore it.

A

The lower part needs to stay, but the other part is being removed. Correct.

A

All right any other questions or comments.

A

Just checking to be sure you're still there yep still here, okay! No, I think this is an.

N

Excellent project, um I think this is a great like commissioner brown and uh I said earlier, this is a.

N

Great addition to that neighborhood I, I grew up learning how to ride my bike on that path, and I.

N

Know a lot of people use that to walk their dogs, a lot of high traffic area for pedestrians. So I'm.

N

Very excited about this project, okay, yeah- and I just want to address what you said: margo, which is.

K

um I'm sure you've seen the house, you know it's got this very sweeping long, rectangular.

K

Lot- and you know this side, the side drive garage side is as impressive as the front.

K

And I I think that that that I personally think that that entrance way is very fitting.

A

All right, then, I'll open this up to the public. Anyone wanting to make a comment on this project.

A

Okay, we will close the public hearing then, and I await emotion.

E

I move the reapprove this project as presented. I know we have a few speculations. um One of.

E

The stipulations I'd like to add is that, as that you'll come back to us with the final plan for.

E

Whatever cladding you use so as you're uncovering everything you know whether or not you want to use.

E

um Put a band in there or everything is shingled. Just come back to us and let us.

E

Know what that actual thing is because, right now, you've got the collaborate in here, and I know.

E

That you're, I appreciate I'm glad that you're doing more investigation, so I'd love to see.

E

um What you all the other things that you uncover um and are there are there any other stipulations.

E

That I'd like to stipulate with the stone for the porch post- yes, uh be it natural stone, whether it.

B

Be whole or segmented, but natural stone, at least at this moment. Yes, a natural stone that also would.

E

Come back to for administrative approval with the final sort of design, specifications and.

E

um Maybe even a sample or something.

B

A smallish sample yeah, not an entire post. um Okay, I don't. Is there anything else.

E

I don't think so. Second, thank you. um This preserves the integrity of the district.

E

um And has relation to historic and architectural value of the existing structure.

A

Okay, we'll start with uh rich as our vote: hi karen hi dave, hi reagan, hi dan hi, johanna, hi,.

A

And the chair votes, I thank you very much. um This there's a lot going on in in this.

A

um So, as the representative of the project, I'd just like to be sure that you convey.

A

With everybody involved owners, subcontractors, vendors- that these are the approved drawings.

T

Yes, I know where you're coming from okay, so any any deviations, please if you're unsure come back.

A

To isaac or nick to be sure that you don't need to come in for follow-up approval. You bet yeah.

A

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. um Yes, this might be some use to you. Oh, is this amazing yeah.

B

Yeah he has, he has on-site sensitivity, words.

B

A little difficult to get a hold of, aren't they all okay onward, unless we need a break? No, no, no.

A

We're hanging on very close, we're very close: okay, okay, we're up to e right petition of strawberry.

A

Bank inc owner for property located at 65 washington, street 63 puddle lane, where information.

A

Is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure, replaced and remove and replace siding.

A

Windows, add new rear door to match existing front door and replace chimney all for plans on the file.

A

And planning department said property is shown on assessor map, 104 lot 7 and lies within the.

A

Mixed research, office and historic districts and who is he hello, hi hello? Please present.

A

Your team roddy roland director of facilities and environmental sustainability for strawberry bank.

U

Good evening everybody I'm alex martin, I'm the archaeologist at strawberry bank.

P

Hello: everyone, john snitzler contractor for strawberry bank, welcome we're here.

V

This evening, for a with a really exciting and unique project for strawberry bank.

V

um The sherburne house is the second oldest structure in the city of portsmouth. uh It started.

V

Bank's only opportunity to teach our visitors about the first period of occupation of european.

V

Settlement, and so with that in mind, we're really here to make subtle changes to the house that.

V

Will show what a unique structure from this early period 1695 looked like the building was restored.

V

By strawberry bank in 1968, there were some assumptions made that we believe were incorrect at.

V

The time so we're going to kind of unfold unravel some of those as part of this process. Sadly, the.

V

Building is negatively impacted by groundwater intrusion due to increases in sea levels, so we're.

V

Having to deal with those as well so that's kind of my introduction I'll throw it over to.

U

Where it is in the northeast corner of the museum grounds,.

U

Scroll down a little bit, it's the first period brown house in the corner. There.

U

um So the first change that we are wanting to make is an update to the windows, um so the windows are.

U

As they were interpreted in the 1960s, um they have multiple colored panes of glass and a long.

U

Coral shape of the diamond panes and we have found from recent archaeological excavations close to.

U

The house enough window glass to reconstruct some of those pains and measure that, in fact, in 1695.

U

In this household anyway, they were using square quarrels, so we'll have the correct shape and that.

U

They were only using a single color of green glass, so we'll use that shape and if you scroll down a.

U

Little bit there's what the windows look like today, you can see subtly how there's both clear.

U

And then colored purple and green glass, which is incorrect and just that long diamond shape. If you.

U

Scroll down a little more you'll see a partial reconstructed piece there in that square. Coral.

U

Shape and then we included some other examples here of that 17th century square and diamond coral.

U

Pains or lights just to show that they're we want to give the glass artist a little more latitude.

U

With filling in the shapes of the panes, if you look at how the windows are today, every single.

U

Window light is identical, so the corners all match, which, based on the the pains that we have.

U

Found in the archaeological site um isn't isn't necessarily the case, so we just have some other.

U

Examples there of how the glass manufacturers historically would have used the end cuts.

U

um To squeeze into a corner and if you scroll down even a little uh there's an extreme example, that's.

U

On display at the new bedford whaling museum, where they're even using lead caning to repair.

U

Broken panes to include back in the light just as another reference and we spent about a year and a.

U

Half looking for somebody who makes reproduction crown window glass, apparently nobody does anymore.

U

um But we found a a company in france called saint berry, st juice deberry, who makes reproduction.

U

Glass that resembles crown glass, it look, it looks just like crown glass and so it's their colonial.

U

uh Category and it comes in different colors that we were able to color match to the green color.

U

Glass that we found in the archaeological record behind the house, so the windows will be up to date.

P

Okay, uh what am I doing.

P

So one of the um things we'd also like to do to this uh would be to add a rear door.

P

To the building we want to put it in on the 1695 section. We know there was a there. It is.

P

um We know there was a door there or the 1728 l, but we're not sure if we had it.

P

For the first house, it's likely it had a back door, but there's no evidence to.

P

Verify that, but we would like to do it for egress reasons and entrance to the garden.

P

um The drawings, a little off the the door is actually under the second floor window.

P

And it is basically um the window with the plywood in it. It's the same opening right there that, where.

P

That door would be the details for the door. um Is that right there we go. uh It's basically copying.

P

The front door it'd be a board and baton door. Similar latch same frame same moldens, it's pine.

P

um It would have had a white oak or something threshold.

P

Impediment maybe but we're gonna, do it just to copy and kind as what the front door is right now.

C

Excuse me: is that, like an inlay, no, that's just the board with the diamond square cut into it.

P

Scratched into it, with with nails clenched through the points.

P

So board and baton door, solid board, baton, door.

P

Come on come on, there's chimney next, I guess so. uh One of the big problems we've always.

P

Had with this house was its chimney that was constructed in the 60s. It was um ambitious, large.

P

In the wrong place, a lot a lot of things, and it also was discovered four or five years ago, that.

P

Because of the ground problem water problems, it was listing, it was leaning, it had dropped about.

P

Three inches in length, it was tied to the frame of the house and it was putting undue pressure.

P

On everything, so it had to come down, so it was like perfect time to let's try to build it in its.

P

Proper position, as best as we could and determine um and and this this is the position you can.

P

See the stack is offset from the ridge, it's back. It's not at the ridge like the present chimney is.

P

um That's a little odd, but there's chimneys out there, like that. We also eliminated the pie lasters.

P

um Kind of extra decorative for uh house that started out as a one over one and then.

P

um Got added on to with another frame in 1703, so it just didn't seem likely.

P

So we rebra located where the chimney, as best as we could figure, was located.

P

Brick type for the outside is just more in water struck: colonial red- I guess you've approved of.

P

That, before that's all over strawberry bank already anyways those chimney those bricks.

P

The siding, we're gonna, keep it in kind. It was uh it's presently white.

P

Pine, originally, it was white pine, we've discovered period clapboards in the 1703.

P

Frame that was attached to the first house, reuse collapse that were taken off from the the east.

P

Wall of the first l, I'm sorry first frame, and we would continue that we would also continue.

P

The lapping and the way they come on the lapping the way it is.

P

I'm not controlling that he's controlling it. Sorry, okay! Well, wait a minute! Wait! A.

P

Minute, go back, go back so there it is in kind. It would stay in kind. In this nature,.

P

um Looking at other first period houses, that's very common. The water table is.

P

Very good, but the thing that is interesting here is the corner board. Okay, now you can go.

P

This is a really neat image. This is a 1695 house in north andover massachusetts.

P

Finch and rose gave me this copy. This is just identical to the east end of sherburne house.

P

When it was just a one over one, this would have faced the river this house here in north andover.

P

Is the same situation, one over one, the back wall or the sidewall gable end wall has no windows in.

P

It that's what we would have had the chimney and the staircase prevent any window openings.

P

This gets sandwiched in between another frame. That's how come this whole wall survived. They.

P

Just left it there and put a whole new frame right up against it. Well, this is.

P

The exact same situation for sherburne too, except for our wall, got removed and reused.

P

Or taken down and removed when they added that second frame, but the interesting thing here is.

P

Again, it's the lap clapboards like we already presently have the water table is the same size.

P

um But it's the corner boards on the on the actual corner itself. That's the neat thing.

P

Here there is no corner board: uh the clapboards go to the end of the corner of the house.

P

And talking with finch about this is other north shore. Massachusetts houses that do this too.

P

There's about six of them and it's cool things like boy. Wouldn't it be fun to do that here, but.

P

um I didn't want to do that unless I had a poisonous example, so noodling around um there's.

P

Our portsmouth example, this is in the warner house, it's the cupola. It's the same situation has no.

P

Corner boards, the clapboards just come, and these miter, but the ones on a 90 degree wall overlap.

P

As you saw in the picture before the claps on the gable line just come flush, but the.

P

Front ones overlapped, so they have a little half inch inch overhang. So it.

P

Seems like a fun thing to do, and that's what we're requesting some new method.

P

Technique to use as an interpretive tool on architecture warner house is this: is the east.

P

Side of warner, the west has the same layout. The the six posts are all done of this nature.

P

The other point was the graduation of the clapboards, don't exist and they don't at.

P

Sherburne so we'd keep that same approach going what else we got. That's it. That's it.

A

Questions with all of the care that you're putting to the club boards, what are you going.

B

To use for fasteners rose head nails, I don't think they make them anymore and yeah. They do.

P

You can get them, we got them, oh good. We had a guy make them.

U

This is the original location of this house. Yes, it was never moved yeah. That's another question.

E

Well, just this is fascinating and excellent, and I love learning about it, as you guys have done.

E

So much research, um I'm kind of it's kind of fun to get a sneak, peek preview of like what.

E

This is what's going to happen here, um but I did have a question because you mentioned.

E

That you are having issues with the water and and everything so it. I know that it's not part of this.

E

um Application per se, but I'm just curious as to what else you're doing yeah so john mentioned that.

V

um The 1968 chimney with htc approval was removed before it did permanent damage to the structure.

V

um And so we're left with obviously wanting to interpret this house which had a chimney.

V

um We've been working with the structural engineer and architect to figure out how to build a chimney.

V

Without using the soils as the structure, because there is no soils left, it's basically like drippy.

V

Castle material yeah, the groundwater is at the level of the basement floor, so we think.

V

We're probably gonna have to do pilings helical pilings into the soils down to at least a firm.

V

Clay we were never able to find bedrock so at least down to the clay and then we'll probably.

V

Have to take some steps to minimize the weight of the chimney mass in areas that won't be visible.

V

Because we just can't there's nothing to support a full tuning so interesting, okay, good luck! Thank.

E

You about that um the height of the chimney- I assume, was chosen, because this is what this.

A

Is how high it would have been at that at that time, since there were no fire codes.

P

Yes, looking at other examples and oh you need to step up to the conclusion as to.

P

What it could have been, um there's no evidence to tell us anything about that sort of thing.

P

Could have been taller and when the collaborates go on uh right now, you have very very weathered.

A

Clubbers, so for a while, this house is going to look no very new. Some of it are they going.

A

To be bare and lit to weather, just as they had in the past, yes, we're toying with a treatment.

P

Of of oil finish pine tar and turpentines, where we've got a couple of different.

P

Batches of concoctions made up to see how they react and look. We've not made any decision on a.

P

Finish, it won't be paint, and it probably will stay like it looks today eventually, right now,.

A

Any other questions all right. Anybody from the public wishing to comment on this application.

A

No okay, well we'll close the public hearing then, and I wait a motion.

E

Doing all night I'll I'll move that we uh approve this application as presented.

N

Second, second,.

E

This is it's pretty much all of them, um so this has.

E

What do I want to say, it uh promotes, promote the education, pleasure and.

E

Welfare of the district to the city, residents and visitors and.

E

um It has relation to historic and architectural value of the existing structure.

A

All right we'll do a roll call, then rich hi, karen aye dave, hi, johanna, aye dan hi reagan, hi trevor of.

A

Time, all right, so we are on to work sessions, old business. We have two one request. Sorry.

A

Oh okay, sorry new business. All right! This is request to postpone.

A

All right, yes, all right request to postpone work session requested by christopher daniel freund.

A

Honor for property located at 37 prospect street, and then we have a request to withdraw the work.

A

Session requested by 95 daniel street for property located at 95-99 daniel street. So I thought we.

A

Could just do those two at the same time? Is this a request postpone just to next month? Yeah, that's.

E

Correct I'm moved that we request postpone a to next month and approve the request to withdrawal.

A

Second, thank you and johanna want to start with you hi, sam, all, right reagan, aye dave, karen hi, rich.

A

Hi, chair votesai, all right, so that brings us to the last item on the agenda are very patient folks.

A

Here all right, this is a work session requested by sean and michio bardong owners for property.

A

Located at 39 dearborn street, wherein permission is requested to allow exterior construction to.

A

An existing structure replace existing roofing structure, add a new side and entry editions as.

A

Per plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor mark 140 as.

A

Lot 7 and lies within the general residence. A and historic districts come on up or amy's gonna. Do it.

A

The presentation she's working herself in right this moment should be um speaking to us shortly.

B

It being work session we're going to move. Oh.

A

Yes, we could definitely move down there and have a seat.

A

No, he doesn't.

A

I have a question before we get started. um This is the existing garage here correct. Oh no, it's not.

W

Ours, oh that's the neighbor's car. Should I look at the white house, the red one is not our house.

X

Okay, that explains it. I couldn't figure out the waterproof.

K

Okay is amy with us. Yet, yes, can you hear me? Yes, we can wonderful.

Y

um Before you start, okay, the two of you introduce yourselves, oh yeah,.

X

39 you have one street yeah, wonderful, welcome! uh So amy. Are you going to lead off.

Y

Yeah, yes, I will. The empty seat is mine. um Sorry, I'm at a trade show um so working, but not there.

Y

um Okay, so I just wanted to point out that this property has been in front of the htc in.

Y

Previously, but this is a proposal which is new to you, so thank you for your time and energy working.

Y

On this project with us um as a larger overview, what we are looking at is a property that many of.

Y

The aspects already have been approved, but never built um so, but the the largest change that we.

Y

Are proposing that we will make to this structure? Is a new roof system, the existing roof system, the.

Y

House, the historic part of the house, I think sean could probably um give a little bit more.

Y

History on, I believe it was barged over somewhere around 1800 is navy and the best case scenario as.

Y

um A cottage or a cape, the existing roof is a failed, failed roof. It right now has just a rubber.

Y

Roof system from the interior, you can see open, rafters that are about four inches thick or so.

Y

um And it houses two bedrooms and a staircase, that's it so um the challenge there is. We.

Y

Can't get any building code and still get livable square footage. On the second floor.

Y

So um that brought us to the proposal of building a dutch colonial, you can see the last sheet does.

Y

Have several examples of local dutch colonials that we can review a little bit later in thinking.

Y

This we would not have to change the footprint which we don't want to do of the main structure.

Y

Then, um and keep essentially that rectangle of the main structure and then build the new roof system.

Y

Which, then, the kitchen edition and the family room quote unquote, editions or wings would attach onto.

Y

A larger mass which, to me, I think that it looks cleaner, lined and um as those two wings roof lines.

Y

Can die into that mass, so um that's kind of the biggest change that you're going to see the other.

Y

Change is that we are proposing a family room off to the. The front of the house is also kind of hard.

Y

To gauge, but I would say towards the front of the house and then a little mud room also towards the.

Y

Front of the house, and then this will allow us to create the courtyard that has been talked about.

Y

In previous years, with a granite entry and staff- and I am proposing or showing you some ideas about.

Y

Landscaping just because I think that that's a really important part of this project as well.

Y

um The existing house kind of looks like not quite done um the work that the previous owner.

Y

Did was beautiful, but just the main part of the house never really got completed so.

Y

um Unless sean has anything to add from the introduction.

Y

um I think it's probably helpful to start the conversation about your thoughts, nothing to add.

X

At this point, okay, so any initial reactions to the change of a small cape to a dutch colonial.

B

We're all pretty familiar with the dutch colonial as a design. I I whether it's.

B

By everyone's standards appropriate as a conversion from the cape- I don't know, but.

B

But as far as the concept of a dutch colonial with a one-story pitched roof set off the side.

B

Or built an addition on it, pretty common stuff, I'm fairly comfortable with all of.

B

This I, whether this is the place for it- I don't know, but one thing that jumps out at me. I can't.

B

Stop myself other than the diagonal chimney is how close you're running the we'll say. The.

B

The sun room to the garage that seems seems the recipe for disaster.

X

In what regard it's, what eight inches space between the two foot or so yeah? It's not much.

H

For yeah thanks: okay, that's that it just the your left hand, side up against your property.

B

Line you've paved just to avoid the problems of maintaining a small area. It seems like this is a.

B

Crazy thing to do, would you um would you rather, I guess in my mind I was trying to keep it.

Y

That roof line is really low on the shed and it created this very complicated.

Y

um Roof connection, if you will that I think um I'm not sure it would look very attractive.

Y

As we would connect that and also was concerned about massing that the mass would be.

Y

Seen as too significant yeah it running them together, I can see certainly what.

B

You're getting at it it'd be like watching a train wreck uh it the none of the planes.

B

Match up none of the pieces line up that they articulate front to back. It's.

B

Seems wrong aiming to connect them well, just that's the place that you've brought.

B

Us to to have this conversation, it seems like we're. You've pushed it too far. Yes,.

X

Well, the living space is what we're concerned about. The shed is a is a relic of the previous.

X

Owner right, so he built a fishing workshop and they already made lures and stuff like that. That's.

X

Not you know, we have a variance to have space over it. You know it's not something. You know we're.

X

Wedded to we'd, rather, you know we're not we're not going to be sitting with our free children and.

X

Our grandkids in there so that um you know I've already thought about. You know whether we take.

X

It down at some point or whatever so I'm you know what's more important in this project- is that we.

X

You know we renovate the house properly end to end and um yeah. So that's that's the.

X

We're we're trying not to throw the baby out with the bath water by tearing the shed down right away. But it obviously is uh something that.

X

You know his story is storage right, you know, and and so the question do we touch it right.

X

Away, do we deal with it at uh at a future date? um Yeah, I mean it. It's structurally able to.

X

Hold michio's car probably, and we you know it's kind of an odd, odd way that they built.

X

It they kind of built it to be have a footing. That's strong enough to hold car have a car in.

X

It you could grade it up to it, open the doors and roll your car into it, but you use it like just to.

X

Hold all his fishing gear and build lures, so it was kind of it's kind of an odd, odd space. So I I.

X

Mean it was perfect for him, but like for us, we're using it like to hold lawn equipment right now, so.

A

Amy did you does it currently have, or did you plan to put gutters on it to protect the the end of the.

A

Addition from moisture and water running down the side of it I mean we could do that. I think amy.

X

Said that you that the htc doesn't typically like gutters, I don't know if that's depends on whether.

A

There's a need. Yeah, I mean I'm. I was kind of surprised at that because you either put a french.

X

Drain in under underground, so you carry the water away from the structure and don't do damage that.

X

Is an issue that came up in an earlier submission? I think you folks had of somebody down on the.

X

South side, who had water off one side of the house, hammering the other house and causing rot so.

H

Yeah, so I think that's you know we could run a gutter on on the shed and and distribute the water.

X

um Down into a into a french drain and take it away from the house other questions yeah, we will.

Y

Have to do a water mitigation plan anyway, for because we do have to go on front of conservation.

Y

Commission um and citing wise, I was planning that you know we can. We can treat both of.

Y

Those walls I mean you're right, it is going to be a construction challenge, to say the least,.

Y

um You know I mean and all over the south bend there are houses built this close, which is why.

Y

We kind of got that far out um and, like I said you know, the shed is almost like a liability.

Y

At this point, they there's a function of where they need the house to go. If that makes sense,.

Y

Yes, reagan um I'll just come out and say I'm having a really hard time with.

E

The loss of the cape in this design- I mean we're you're redesigning it. I understand your needs. It.

E

Is a small house, but I remember being on the I was on the commission when they redid this.

E

Current house years ago- and we worked really hard to try and preserve the sense that this is.

E

A very old cape on this property and that, even though it's kind of it's got some new wings on.

E

It and things like that, you can still see that that's what is at the core of this building and.

E

By turning it into a dutch colonial, it's just gone like that that that history of.

E

This historic cape on this property is gone like the you'll. Nobody will ever see it again. Yeah we.

X

Understand that that's why we invested the time walking around town. Looking at the older dutch.

X

Dutch colonials that are out there to look at the trims and make sure that we carried similar.

X

It's not the like david said: there are plenty of dutch colonials around. That's not you know. That's.

E

Not the issue, it's not that the dutch colonial is is inappropriate in this location. Sure it's.

E

Just that, by doing this, you're erasing the fact that there is a cape here, which is the original.

E

Older structure, that's that's the history of this property so but you're getting. If I understand.

A

What you're saying reagan is that, basically, uh by approving this, we are approving the demolition of.

A

An old structure and a replacement with a completely different structure, even if some.

A

Components of it physically remain as as a part of the neighborhood. It is the destruction of a cape.

A

And and the building of a new building- and we are responsible for deciding about whether it's.

X

Not the building, building, we're we're renovating. I mean if you look at the heart, the structure of.

X

The roof is the only thing, that's changing here right right, but it's essentially what is going.

E

To be presented in the neighborhood, I understand that it's going to be new and different sure I.

X

Understand that right and they're, actually no dutch colonials in our neighborhood that are.

X

In the historic district are all on the south side, so I get all that uh and I did read the.

X

Notes- and I listened to the to the video and all that so at the time I think they talked.

X

About dutch colonials and kittery, I think was- was the reference they made in that hearing. So I.

X

We have three children, we have a big family, we have the needs of of having a full space. There.

X

um What happens when you renovate this dutch cologne, the the cape and you start putting dormers.

X

On it to maximize the full space of the second floor, you know you start looking like something.

X

That was built in the 1970s right. So what we're doing here is we're, saying: hey, let's build.

X

Something that looks like it was built back in the 1800s by raging, raising the ridge line, making.

X

Sure that the trim lines around the roof sections are look and feel like something. That's that age.

X

um So that's, that's the that's the uh the intent around it right.

W

Question the two historic photos: do you happen to know when those were taken.

X

um You know, can I see those.

X

I mean they're yeah. This was done, I think in when they, the last the last owner, built it the deck. I.

X

Believe was was pre-existing when he started this project back in 20 15. He started to take pieces.

Y

Off yeah, I went through all the files from all the building permits and all that to go, find exactly.

X

How this thing came together, it's a lot of stuff, they got approval, for they never went and did.

X

And I've crawled into the eaves to look at the roof. Structural structures never really fixed.

X

It's uh it's if just looking at the artifacts in there, because I've actually built other homes.

X

Before so looking at the artifacts and there's like you got lumber that's 50 years old, that's.

X

In one of the rooms, and so we've got a bowed roof because of all the all the deterioration of.

X

Different products that they've used so um yeah so in in the other aspect of this thing is, is.

X

That, because of the structure, um the state that it's in right now, we need to bolster it so that.

X

The floor structure on the second floor is actually got. You know a space to carry to carry.

X

Utilities, no bathroom on the second floor right so there's! You know this is um yeah so that you know.

X

We looked at it, we read through all the documents and uh and reviewed it understood why the dormers.

X

Didn't make a lot of sense on on the original roof yeah. So um can I jump in here yeah? Please, go ahead.

Y

um So one of one thing that I do want to ask the um the board is I've, provided here.

Y

You're, seeing the three views that we could gather, of course, it's winter from.

Y

Dana dearborn and maplewood you can see. I I understand. I appreciate um your point of view.

Y

The house really is very hard to see, um and what is your perspective on that.

Y

Or you just don't care, I don't I mean I didn't I'm just not sure like.

B

Well, it's hard to view this as a landmark property. In that sense um it and it's it's got a couple of.

B

Large sheds on on the sides of it, it's not a pristine piece of architecture. I I guess I'm.

B

I even what's funny about what happens, though, when you start changing it. Yes, you're leaving some of.

B

The floor structure in the walls- maybe parts of them- will be from the original building all.

B

You're replacing is the roof, but in the process of making that roof rationalizing that new roof, as.

B

The core part of this house you're also changing the sashes so that they are appropriate to that.

B

The statues are no longer appropriate to uh the cape that was there. The sashes are not early.

B

19Th century sesh is there, none of the windows are, are originals and the sashes that they're.

X

All like indeed but they're, like I think when we looked in their like 1960s amy. I think something.

X

Like that around around that that time had this problem at home, too, that's right, 1960 to 2015.

B

Sure but but the I think, what we're! What I'm trying to the point that I'm trying.

B

To make is that you're altering the storyline you're you're changing the way that the house.

B

Is viewed, and so this really is going to become a house from another time, then it is currently.

B

uh I I'm not thinking that it's a gonna be a drain to the neighborhood honestly, uh I'm.

B

Not saying that there's a budding properties don't deserve any better, but this is a fair.

B

Looking building and it's and and it might be a thing that simulated some some rethinking.

B

On some of the other properties that surround it, I'm I'm kind of on board. With this, I guess.

A

Q

We'll lose the cape, as the city says it's around 1700, so it really is a nice part of the of the.

Q

Historic fabric of that area, but at the same time you have a challenge and I'm not sure what you can.

Q

Do to enlarge that house and still keep it as that cute little cave. You don't want a cute little cave.

C

C

The unique part is, is, is your property, you know and your views and everything and I think.

C

This is actually uh in improving that area, even though we're losing a little cape. It's.

C

A cape known bobby new, certainly the big boats going down the north mill pond, aren't saying it.

C

um So I I uh I like the new design, I feel bad about losing the cape, but I think with that.

C

Land, and with with that explosion, what you're doing I can understand you changing to something.

K

Well, I did see your house okay.

K

um And that's a great little neighborhood tech back in there and.

K

um I I feel the thing that kind of torn like oh this beautiful little cape but at.

K

The same time, I think you're trying to be really sensitive to the neighborhood you're. Definitely.

K

Elevating the neighborhood so um yeah, I would have to say you know it's hard because you you.

K

Want to be sensitive to the historic fabric of the neighborhood, but just to have to be sensitive.

K

To the people who are living at so I'm kind of torn, but I I I wouldn't I wouldn't say no. I guess.

H

um So this is a work session. The question, I guess is um if, to the extent that people are on board.

A

With the colonial, are there any comments about the design of the colonial itself.

A

And rich, I'm going to assume you'll just jump in here, yeah I'll jump in with it.

A

And this is with the proposed design.

A

um Yes, rich, I mean I'm like I got the commissioners have said: I'm not excited about losing the story.

N

That is there. um I understand the want to enhance the property and the need to enhance.

N

The property or the the roof, at least uh the pairs that need to be made made. So I'm not.

N

Going to be the only one that goes against that, um but and it will enhance the neighborhood so.

K

Dave always gets right to the salient points right from the get-go and.

K

um I do think that you have to kind of look at the. I had a house on pray street.

K

This is much room and the house developed a really serious mold problem.

K

So it's something you're going to have to consider as you go forward, so the other.

X

Thing we haven't been able to discuss with amy is the idea of taking down the shed and rebuild.

X

Basically, connecting the foundation between the family room there, so it connects through and so.

X

You actually widen the footing of that shed so basically connecting the two pieces, and then you.

X

Put so you don't you don't have that wall to wall problem, your the family room will step down into.

X

What would be a a garage, I guess it'd be wide enough to park a small car in it, and that would.

X

Mitigate all that, so we're just trying to figure out you know with the working session gives us an.

X

Opportunity to hear your feedback and your and your recommendations, um so we haven't really.

X

Gotten we have some builders that we've talked to, but we're trying to get the architecture design.

X

Piece at a you know the art of the possible and then from there adjust to it. Is it impractical to.

W

To think about, moving it 90 degrees, should I shed yeah? Yes, the sheds kind of very close to property.

X

Lines, it's got this history of uh with a neighbor next door who have was uh so there's there's a.

X

What do you call it? A line of sight? um Easement? That's that's about 10 feet, 10 feet forward of it.

X

So um so we can go up, we can definitely we can go up and- and we can go forward a bit. I think.

X

But we're trying to just minimize the cost of that impact. To me, I would say: go ahead. Amy.

Y

It is also not exactly parallel to the house, it's not exactly so. The connection.

Y

It's not exactly parallel to the front of the house, so it's just a skewed. First.

Y

I don't know why it, but it is it's a little bit. um But yes, the point of this session was.

Y

We really wanted to get your feedback um and I totally respect your point of view reagan. You.

Y

Know I think we we went round and round and round. I've talked to the building department.

Y

There's no way that we can hit code in renovating the house. So if their way the cape cape.

Y

Is it we while we can rebuild a cape? It's still, I feel I agree with sean. It would almost look odd.

Y

um In order to get headroom, but we would be up against the exact same thing, is.

Y

When we go to hit code, we can't with the existing roof structure that makes sense.

A

Other comments on the design.

A

I I just have one, and that is um the proposed north elevation, the mud room, I think, uh comes out.

A

To the face of the dutch colonial and it causes for me, I I think this is what's making me feel.

A

That the dutch colonial looks very heavy um from this particular view, so amy I'd be interested in.

A

Seeing an iteration where that was pulled back a little bit to see if it changes some of the.

A

Proportion- I I'm not I'm not an architect, but you said the north there's a funny thing going on. I.

B

Think what is listed on the drawings is north elevation. It's actually the south elevation. I.

A

Think it's looking north okay, the this is this, is the current that's looking from the south. That's.

B

Not how it should be in any case, this is the view I'm concerned about and if that it's a mud, room.

A

Right on the right hand, side with the with the railings with the railing above it yeah yeah. I'm.

A

Just wondering if that was pulled back a little bit um when you say pull back, which way towards.

A

You can actually see it come all the way down, because right now there's something.

A

About those two structures sitting in the front, that's making this house look very.

A

Very big to me- and this is possibly an optical illusion- of the fact that these are drawings.

A

um But I I just some something: just doesn't quite sit yeah well, even in the renderings.

B

um It would also it's not going to keep the railing from having to end up running into the.

B

Edge of the roof also yeah, that's true yeah, when you can pull that back and get it off the roof.

Y

Line: okay, I mean that that was uh that and the the secondary, the new, the well the new chimneys.

A

um One is plain, and the other has a little bit of a a top to it- um was that.

A

um Which one has the topic.

X

Was just an oversight on my part? Okay, um I was just checking they.

Y

Would match for sure, and I think um we were trying to stay with a dutch colonial.

Y

um Center chimney, um so we would match the the two gymnasia for sure. Are these operator.

A

Operating chimneys, or are these decoration, the shorter, the one in the family room will operate.

A

And this is probably way too early, but most of your material is your planning.

A

Natural materials, historic amy, has a cold out on the drawings there.

H

um Hear me in terms of the materials amy, I think that it's it's um facades there.

A

And just in general, how hard are you headed towards natural materials as much as possible? Yeah.

X

I think we have the hardy board um siding, but then what looks like shingles is is uh cedar shingles.

X

Like the that's on the kitchen and on the shed currently mm-hmm painted hardy board, amy is that.

X

What you had called out there correct and the the reason for choosing the hardy board versus wood.

X

um Making the proximity to water and maintenance, one of the one of the things like living, what we.

X

Noticed is, is that with the pond it the water dynamic, and I we lived on the water.

X

Close to the water down and down down south the temperature differentials, the load of.

X

Water that comes up on the house is incredible, like just just with the wind shifting and the.

X

Temperature changing it's incredible: how much! How much moisture just comes right off the pond.

X

If you're at the right tide and everything is soaked, so it it um it's kind of surprising and.

X

So going with something, that's that's very durable, I think would be.

B

Have you you had any, did you think at all about lowering the sun room whatever it.

B

Is family room uh to cut down on the problem of it connecting to the garage.

X

We did have it lower and it kind of was just too low and too flat. um Honestly, you.

X

Know at this point the garage is going to go away. I don't really, we don't really need it.

X

Well, I know we like it, we have it so the issues we have a variance for the footing right. Can we.

X

Do something that ties in better with with that ridge line with the ridge line coming off the.

X

Family room, so it's proportionally makes sense. I I agree with. It makes no sense right now, I'll get.

X

Off and it just no, no it's cool, you know I mean you, my wife had a conversation about this. Just.

X

Two days ago and she was rolling her eyes at me, so it's it's definitely. I know we haven't decided.

X

Yet, but it definitely is something that jumps out at us and I'm sure if we see it every day, we'll.

X

It's probably not going to stay there very long, we'll be back in front of you again. Can I ask the.

Y

Board um a direction question as we look at this elevation if we were to raise the roof of this.

Y

Shed garage to match that line of the family room that would get the ridge up higher so that the.

Y

Ridge of the family room can die into the garage. Is that something that the board would rather see.

A

I I think I'm just going to say I think there are advantages and disadvantages to that. um I think.

A

That trying to align and put those buildings in is one solve some of the heartburn that dave had, but.

A

It raises a question of mass for me that when you start putting the buildings together, which I think.

A

Is what you were well aware of when you went this route, so you have a bit of a bit of a conundrum.

X

Right the masses were like it's just too big a building connecting together, I mean the one good.

X

Thing, that's you know the with this property. Is they tucked it all the way in the back and.

X

It's you know: it's not visible from the street. You know unless you're really pure around so.

X

um Yeah, so we're in terms of our lock coverage, we're at 12.7 percent, I think of out of 25. So.

X

You know, as I don't know how you measure mass but like that's the is that how no for the for the.

A

Purposes of the htc it doesn't go by the same, it doesn't go by the same. It's just the building. It.

Z

Itself and you are and because you are tucked far back, you are close to some back neighbors and we.

A

Need to think about them as well. It's not you're not tied up, but they are there yeah for sure.

A

um I think we've probably done enough for a work session. At this point, I think we've covered a lot.

A

Of the big points and some of your concerns or some of our concerns, and vice versa, that.

A

Sounds good um so there's nobody here unless somebody online isaac for okay, the public is.

A

Welcome to comment we haven't gotten around to our. We talked roughly with a couple of our.

X

Close neighbors so far, so they kind of know they haven't seen the drawings just yet. um It's always.

X

A good idea: well, no we're going to take it around to them, but with um cold weather you don't really.

X

Bump into people as much um yeah and we've been under the weather last few weeks, so we didn't get.

X

A chance to get out in front of them, but we'll do that little thermos of warm drinks exactly.

B

um I'd like to at this stage move that we continue this to the next meeting of the stark.

B

History, commission and take it back up is a work session. Okay, so is that what you'd like to do? Okay,.

A

All right there's a motion in a second to post to continue it for.

A

One month and we'll do a roll call, starting with johanna hi nathan, hi.

A

And dave hi. Thank you. Thank you all right. uh Do we have specific takeaways. You want us to follow up.

X

On um amy's probably heard a lot of them, she's done okay, yeah, okay, and you can listen to them.

A

Again: okay, great, um we are not going to adjourn right away. Don't everybody run away, you're welcome.

A

To run away okay, thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much for all your help. Oh you're.

Y

Welcome amy. Thank you. um There is no meeting on the 8th because we don't have any additional items.

A

um But I did want to talk about um the idea of planning for something in march. uh If it's a.

A

Light agenda and we can get a second meeting in or half of a second meeting to talk about projects.

A

Administratively, in the future, so um some of the concepts we talked about or I've talked with john.

A

About is review of past projects that we have an opportunity to go back and take a look at things.

A

That have been built, maybe in the fast five or a little longer, were they successful? Are we happy.

A

With how they turned out, how was the neighborhood reacted to and responded to the new structure if.

A

They used new and different materials at the time that were supposed to be so fantastic. How have.

A

Those turned out and just to have an opportunity to formally go back and take a look at some of.

A

These things um to get that done, we probably want it to be warmer and lighter in the evening. So it's.

A

Not something that we would do right away, the other would be you know. Are there some materials.

A

And things coming up that we want to talk about and start getting to know like the product that.

A

You brought forward for a 55 gate street to go behind. Yes, yes, so certain things like that that.

A

We haven't, we don't really have an opportunity to sit and talk about until somebody brings them.

A

To us and then we're sort of back up on our heels, not really knowing what it's all about.

A

um And then ideas for what we might do with the grant funds that have you know are working their.

A

Way through the process, so those are just some of the things that I was thinking. We.

A

Might want to talk about in a meeting in march if we can slip a little bit of time in and then.

A

That would allow us to sort of prioritize maybe come up with some different ideas of.

A

Things that we'd like to talk about and then plan out how we're going to accomplish them.

K

Let's just quickly ask: where are the grant funds coming from.

E

So that's this new thing that I believe. Well, I don't know if nick is still on.

E

um If they have gone through, the, maybe mr blaylock would know- maybe maybe rich knows if the um the.

AA

Certified legislative, district or governmental, district or whatever it is yes certified. Why.

E

um This is what I deal with every day and it's just gone out of my brain um overload. Yes, uh the.

E

um Certified local district or certified local government excuse me, clg grant is what.

E

um The state distributes they get a certain amount of money from national park service.

E

For preservation for these four little districts throughout the state, you have.

E

To be certified as a preservation sort of local government and that's what I know that nick has.

E

Put in the application rich, I don't know if that has come before the city council, yet for a vote.

N

It is not okay, don't believe it should soon, hopefully- um and I'm here- uh reagan and I'll.

O

Check with peter britz, but everything is ready to go from our standpoint to the city council, great.

E

So these we may have missed this year's grant cycle, but it's coming up, but we should start.

E

To pull together ideas of what we think that we could apply for grants to do. This is money that is.

E

The state has to give away so, let's take it all right all right, so I just want to lay that out so.

A

That people would know that that was coming down the pike and you have a chance to think about it.

AA

So, within the course of the next month, we should all go out and pick a couple of projects that we.

AA

Think are worth having a conversation about. I think that would be a great idea. We probably.

A

Want a couple of categories things like major. You know: construction, major construction, residential.

A

Instruction infill, mostly, I think, we're dealing with infill. I don't know if we have nick said.

A

He could take us a look through to see if there were any adus that we wanted to take a look at.

A

um I can't remember if there were any other categories. Next remember: window replacements, yeah.

A

And then tearing down of chimneys, this was one we talked a little bit about before. So you know.

A

Put your thinking, hats, on email me and john, with your thoughts and we'll start to pull it together.

A

And put them into different topics and then lay out or how we want to approach those okay, good.

E

Okay, I have one more quick little thing and I'm sorry: I've meant to alert you that I was going.

E

To bring this up, I I got um an email through the new hampshire preservation alliance, that.

E

Said that I guess tomorrow at 1 pm, if anyone is free, there is a free webinar.

E

That is being hosted by the national alliance of preservation commissions, that is talking about.

E

um How small commissions can pull together some resources or what they can do when they don't have.

E

Specialized preservation planning resources- we're not quite that in that.

E

We're not totally without any support, because we do have nick and isaac. We have staff, we.

E

Have nick, who has is preservation minded, but if anybody would like to watch to watch it, I.

E

Can I will send out the link, but it might just be interesting to see what they recommend for.

E

Other commissions, that don't have I mean we don't have a specific. We don't have a.

E

City preservation, planner that some cities do big cities that so it might give us some ideas.

E

Because it could be as depressing as the grad that rising sea level webinar that we went to.

E

um Because I didn't sleep that night.

Z

A

If it's depressing for us imagine for the younger folks.

A

Maybe but I just thinking about the half million dollars, I've got sunk into a pond.

B

No, when you look down at the map and see that that one of the benefits of sea level.

B

Rising is it will help restore uh some of our riparian areas, because the sea water is going.

B

To overtake land that has been filled and and countering that whole marsh development well.

B

Then they show you the map and I live in one. It's really funny yeah, I okay anyway, so moving. Nobody.

W

Truly knows the timeline, so don't really I'll show you a picture from last january at this.

A

December, I know, but all right, yeah hi rich, thank you for joining us all right. Thank you. Thank you.