City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 11 Jan 2023

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1.11.2023 Historic District Commission

A

All right, everyone welcome to the january 11th 2023 meeting of the historic district commission.

A

um I would like to introduce the members um we have dan brown good evening yep and we have.

A

Brian, I'm sorry should I let him strong yeah good evening, okay, good evening, I'm.

A

Margo doring, hello, martin ryan, what's the matter with me, I'm john wyckoff.

A

And this is nick cracknell good evening and then we have rich blaylock city council.

A

Rep good evening reagan rudig good evening and david adam good evening,.

A

um Looking forward to read, I'm not seeing it in here, I don't have an agenda like that I'll get it.

A

Okay, so the board's actions- and these matters has been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature. If any.

A

Person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest. That issue shall be raised.

A

At this point, or it will be deemed waived, there is a little something that I would like to discuss.

A

Before we get going on our one administrative approval, okay, you probably know what this is.

A

Nick, probably not okay, um in looking through the overlay districts and our historic district.

A

Here at the very beginning of it, um one thing that starts off the historic district is established.

A

Preserve architectural and historic resources of the city to foster its architectural and historic.

A

Character, its sense of place to conserve property values, to strengthen the local economy and to.

A

Promote the use of the district for education, pleasure and welfare, and then it again repeats.

A

That, on the same page, to promote the district's contribution to the education, pleasure and welfare.

A

So what that is something that we haven't uh talked about as a uh as a task that we could take.

A

On um if somebody was so inclined and um it it the education and that's what I don't quite understand,.

A

um What they or whoever wrote this ordinance expects from us to do. As far as educating people.

A

So I'm just putting this out there now so that in the future, if somebody wants to.

A

Take this on, we could have a little kind of a subcommittee or something very similar to that.

A

And then this is something that we bump into all the time: exemptions from certificate of approval.

A

And number nine is placement or replacement of ground-mounted mechanical or electrical equipment.

A

Including gen, a generator where the equipment is located behind the structure and is not in.

A

Public view and all the duct work or equipment fees are located in the building's interior or.

A

Immediately adjacent to the equipment, so there again, this is something goes back to our kind of.

A

General back of the house um idea that we've had, but um here it is in writing, um they're, saying.

A

A generator, but they could just as easily be a condenser for these mini splits. I just thought.

A

That I would read that and something for us to keep in mind when somebody has got a condenser.

A

Mounted on the back of the building, [music] okay nick, we now have administrative approvals.

B

So we only have one administrative approval tonight that that came in and that's 44 humphreys.

B

Court, this is the project we uh approved for the chimney and the rear condenser. Last week,.

B

And agreed to let the applicant come back to deal with the emergent issue of the egress window. Being.

B

Required in one of the attic windows, this uh was submitted as part of that request and requirement.

B

Last week, so there are images in your file in the application showing that the two attic windows, the.

B

Question I was going to ask the applicant, seeing I think, he's in the back of the room. Jay pruitt.

B

Is whether you're requesting both windows be replaced and if they're, both being replaced.

B

Presumably, only one of them is an egress window and the other would be a double hung, but I'm not.

B

Sure yeah it's up to you, I I can do them both. So they look identical. I can do one.

C

One casement egress and I can do one double hung: won't they look identical unless they're.

C

Yeah open it, they will. I mean it's gonna, be uh yeah you're not going to be able to tell.

C

Plus there are about four stories up and facing the side of the house, so they're gonna be uh no.

B

They're they're they're: are they one over ones or two over one two over one, two over ones, yeah.

B

I mean I, I suppose, if uh let others decide it might be safer if they're, both egress windows.

B

So you don't have to guess which one actually swivels but I'll leave that to everyone else.

D

I mean I would say if they I mean they look pretty identical on the exterior and I'd be happy with.

D

Either I don't know if the um the family has a preference as to whether how they're using.

D

It if maybe they for safety reasons want one that only opens as a double hung on the other.

D

I I don't think it makes any difference. I would be fine with. Basically, I would be.

D

Fine leaving them up, leaving it up to them, wouldn't it look odd on a spring.

E

Day if they go to open a window- and one is a them along and one is a casement.

E

So again you can leave it up to them, but I think would look on it's going to look out anyway. No no.

F

They both were now. um What I would like to say is that um the, if you leave one of the windows it'll.

A

Have that old storm window on it and that will be totally different. No, I was sensing.

B

They were going to replace both windows, double hung and one might be casement. That's correct.

C

Do you have a preference, I don't I I mean I. If it were my house, I would do.

C

Them both as egress yeah uh casements, just because they'll yeah, it's easy.

C

um You know it's, that's probably the higher cost option, but that that matters the doing.

C

A double hung in a casement would be less money, but it's sort of irrelevant.

B

Okay, just specify what you want to do: they're, either both casement or they're, whatever they want.

B

Or they're one or the other somebody I would like to see them both casements I'd like to.

G

Suggest that they both be casements they'll match they'll trim out easier. There seems to.

G

Be a teeny bit of uh cost difference that the applicant suggest. That's not an issue.

G

A second alrighty, all those in favor hi hi, opposed. Thank you. There you go. You have it.

A

So we jump right into a certificate of approval extension request.

A

This is the petition of pnf trust of 2013 owner for properties located at 266, 278 state street.

A

And 84 pleasant street wherein permission is requested to allow a second one-year extension.

A

Of the certificate of approval originally approved on february 5th, 2020 for exterior renovations to.

A

An existing structure, 278 state street and new construction to an existing structure, a four to.

A

Five story: addition at 266-270 state street, as per plans on filing the planning department, said.

A

Property is shown on assessor map 107 as lot 77 78 79 80 lies within the character district.

A

4 downtown overlay and historic districts so who is here to make this presentation.

A

H

Good evening, chair, commission members, my name is michael keane, I'm the architect for the.

H

Project, michael keane, architects, in newmarket, um we are back before you asking for a second.

H

Extension we're pretty much in the same boat as we were at this point last year. The project is.

H

um Has hit a stone wall in that we can't find a location for a transformer to provide power.

H

For the site, we've um tried several uh properties adjacent to us and in the surrounding area, without.

H

Success, there's still one option for an off-site transformer that we are trying to pursue there.

H

May be one option for an on-site transformer that has minor changes would result in minor.

H

Changes to the building which would bring us back for those if we fall short on either one of those.

H

Options then we'd have to start looking for some place on site, which of course would require much.

H

More redesign, our hope at this point is that if you grant us the extension and we're able.

H

To minimize the impact on the approved design that we'd be able to come back as an amended site plan.

H

And not have to start with a blank piece of paper. um If you don't, then I guess we'll just have to.

H

Start again with the beginning, even if it's the same design, we just have to start over with a.

H

With a new application and show you whatever the uh whatever the changes might be, we have.

H

Looked at what the uh preliminarily, what the implications of having that transformer on site.

H

Would be as the dominoes started to fall in terms of other land use approvals that we have in place.

H

Unit count unit size, return on investment in the property, access to parking, and things like that.

H

Just haven't gone far enough into it yet to be able to present you with any other.

H

Proposals, but we are still hoping that there might be an opportunity to land this thing.

H

Someplace off-site and be able to come back with substantially the same design as you had approved.

H

um So this was approved in two parts in 2020 it was approved for the three parcels on.

H

Just on state street, in 2021 we had come back with a a proposal to add, what's commonly known.

H

As the louise building behind us, so there was a second approval granted in 2021. We.

H

Came back at the end of 2021 to uh to request an extension for this previous year, and here we are.

H

Again, asking you for one more opportunity to try to uh to try to resolve this issue.

A

Well, who's got some questions or suggestions or anything. Yes, thank you chair, um thank you and I.

I

Want to thank the commission on their previous work on this that wasn't part of this initial.

I

Approval, but I know important this corner is in downtown. I know how hopeful everyone is for this.

I

To actually happen, um I appreciate you being very transparent on the hurdles you've had to.

I

Go through and where your directions will go depending on where those outcomes come.

I

um But yeah I'm still hopeful for this project. I'm going to be supporting of continuing this.

I

um But I'm hopeful that you can find a place for that transformer yeah. Also. Thank you.

E

I agree, I think that uh it's still a good project and I see no reason not to continue to.

E

For another year, so I will be supporting it as well.

D

I agree it's the same. It's you know same good project that we spent a lot of time on and I don't.

D

Want to hold it up any longer, I'd really like to see it happening as as quickly as possible, so.

A

We're not holding it up, though no, but not this time.

H

If I may say, staff has been very uh great in trying to help us resolve this issue and.

H

Things like that too, so we appreciate that very much it's just we haven't been able to.

H

Fit the square peg in the round hole yet. Mr chairman, yes, I asked a question.

G

Mr uh correct now uh it seemed at some point, sir, that you had some sort of mojo brewing.

G

About uh underground transformer locations uh on another project, uh closer to the railroad tracks,.

G

um And wondering if that that doesn't apply to their situation so.

B

It probably doesn't uh we had some initial support, given the market street renovations.

B

Next to commercial alley that that that building uh next to the corner building, I don't know the.

B

Names of the businesses but 41 and 45 market street had come here. Remember the recessed.

B

Roof deck in the attic in the chimney. I think what tms was doing the work. Well, one of those.

B

Two buildings have been mock balled since the 40s, or something right above the ground floor.

B

So when they got all their permits to go and do the renovation, they too didn't have enough power.

B

To support the renovations after they got all their approvals, they went to eversource or.

B

And they needed a transformer, and I believe that transformer for that particular project had no.

B

Other place to go but under the sidewalk, and I think they were willing to at the.

B

Time entertain a submersible that has to be a submersible transformer to go below the sidewalk.

B

So we looked at it for this location in the state street sidewalk, which is pretty wide.

B

And eversource it got cold feet, they don't they don't typically use submersibles. They don't have.

B

Them in stock, they claim there was a two-year wait to get one and they're very expensive.

B

So I don't know what happened subsequent to that on market street. I thought it was conveyed to me.

B

There was no other option, I don't know who paid for it or whether it went in, but that did not.

B

Appear to be a solution, we were hopeful of that for this location. So then I proceeded to work with.

B

The owner of the citizen bank property and explore the idea of an above ground transformer, which is.

B

Eversource has been saying: that's all they do, regardless of context. um That's a problem in an.

B

Urban environment to have to deal with suburban transformers, but the owner of citizen bank was.

B

At least conceptually supportive of providing the real estate not only for a transformer that would.

B

Support this project, a pad location, but also move a transformer out of the inside of that.

B

Bank that eversource wants out of the building, because that's also non-compliant. So there were.

B

Going to be two transformers near pleasant street, probably where those near the bushes, with all the.

B

The birds in them so hopefully behind that if you walk by they're full of birds, um so I conveyed we.

B

Developed a layout to get to 266 date and tie into mcnabb's project at 93 pleasant. There will be a.

B

Third, transformer, as we know on that property near where the little bulkhead was to get into.

B

The basement, so all three of them would be tied together, but they would support the whole block.

B

On both sides up to state street if it worked, I conveyed that to the engineer for this project.

B

And I don't know where that landed, it probably wasn't cheap to run conduit below grade from.

B

The bank to this property, given there's a lot of ledge in pleasant street. It's high.

B

But um the city's certainly supportive of routing it from citizen bank up to their property, but the.

B

The deal as I understood it was that the owner of this property would have to pay.

B

For that system to be installed, not the city and not citizen bank owner and not ever source, so I'm.

B

Sure you looked at the cost implications and maybe that's why you're still stalled. We haven't had a.

B

Follow-Up conversation right: yes, I think costs and technical feasibility, which we preliminarily.

H

Looked at with dpw to be able to get up the street, those are hurdles that we still think we need to.

H

Cross but really we haven't several attempts to reach that property owner have failed, so we.

H

Haven't even have a discussion with the property owner to see so available on warehouse. I'm glad.

B

It came up tonight because I didn't know that, and I have been in communication with that owner.

B

So why don't you call me tomorrow? Well, because my understanding is public works is supportive.

B

Despite what you've got to snake through to get there uh using that corridor, we spent at least.

B

Eight months mapping out how to get from point a to point b with eversource and public works. So I.

B

Don't think that's a problem. I don't know that the owner is 100 on board. The initial conversations.

B

Were one transformer uh not two, uh so things are a little bit bigger there, but let's talk.

B

Tomorrow, I think we'd have to have more discussion with eversource too, because my my recollection of.

H

Our first conversation with them was they were reluctant to be that far away from the property.

H

um But well that would be surprising after multiple conversations we've had with both bigwigs.

B

At eversource yeah wigs, um I would just like to say that the building has been for sale for a year.

A

And quite a chunk of chain, I can't remember exactly what it is, but I'm.

A

Thinking it's around 5 million or something like that. It's going to be a very difficult.

A

Project and or empty lot to sell with no electric service. So I feel that um that if you have to pay.

A

For conduit underneath state street, then so be it. The the other thing I like to say have.

A

You discussed anything with the church at all. Yes, they have um they're, not interested.

J

Well, we made an increase to whether or not they would be interested in an offer, and we heard back.

H

That they are not interested in an offer. They're concerned that the property is on the national.

H

Register um for one thing so they're not sure how it how it would work out with the national.

H

Register approval- and they just didn't, seem interested in um in making it available to us.

H

That was when we originally presented it to you. We thought that was going to be our best option.

H

um And we made several overtures to them. I understand eversource that talked to them.

H

About it before we even got involved, I believe they turned every source down. Also so yeah.

K

We also had discussion with the uh mr and mrs um jenny and miss jenny and mr beebe about whether.

H

Or not, we could land it on their property. We presented them with some design options.

H

For what their property would look like, and they said no also there's no room on the fire station.

H

uh Not on the current fire station lot and we talked to the developer of the old cursage.

H

Property who was interested at one point in time, but that didn't come to fruition either.

B

Let's follow up tomorrow, if we can do that.

A

Okay, um would anybody in the public like to speak about this project.

A

Okay, so I'm going to close this public hearing and I'm looking for a motion.

D

The move that we um grant the another one year, approval extension approval. Second,.

D

um I hope that it whatever it gets, resolved very quickly, so that this can move forward.

A

So I suppose, since we're granting.

A

Continuance extension extension that it doesn't need finding a fact or anything, no all right.

D

It's already hot all right all those in favor say aye aye, chair, bow, tie opposed.

H

Thank you all for your help on your patience. Thank you. Good luck! Good luck,.

A

Some extension cords.

A

Now we're into public hearings, old business, petition of brienne, cressy and cyril shen owners.

A

For property located at 46 mark street, wherein permission is requested to allow the installation.

A

Of solar panels to the roof of the house, as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property are shown on assessor map 116 as lot.

A

52 lies within the mixed research office and historic districts. Please introduce.

L

Yourself, hi, I'm cyril, chen, I'm the owner of the co-owner, my own wife, all right. Yes,.

L

So I think the last time this was presented to the committee you guys had asked for to.

L

See some render get closest to the microphone. Please. Oh yeah sure um you guys had asked to.

L

Get some rendered drawings of what it might look like with the solar panel, so I've provided those.

L

um To the committee- and they should be at the end of the document and if you.

L

Want to scroll all the way down, actually to probably the end of the document is the first.

L

Photo, that's probably most representative of what it'll look like.

L

So that actually is well actually, if you scroll down to the bottom and I'll talk about that.

L

Photo last um because I think the order of things kind of got reversed when I sent it in the email.

L

um So yeah, so this is um approximately what it'll look like. um I don't have the.

L

Best photoshop skills, but that's as best as I could muster the solar panels from tesla. They.

L

Do sit relatively low on the roof compared to some other solar panels. They sit approximately.

L

Two inches off the roof and then there's a bevel that covers the edges so that it sits a little.

L

Looks a little more flush with the roof, and um you know I think it blends in relatively well.

L

If you want to scroll down actually one more it'll show you what it looks like up close.

L

um So that's what it looks like up. Close, it's um sort of beveled sits about two inches off the roof.

L

um Aesthetically, it's probably about as good as you can get for a solar panel.

L

um I haven't seen any that look better and if you want to scroll up, I can show you some other angles.

L

So that's the front of the house that first photo you saw from basically at the end of our driveway.

L

Looking up at the house, it's two inches from the um and, if you scroll up, I wanted to sort of give.

L

Sort of the committee just some perspective on what it looks like for the public. So sorry.

L

Scrolling down just on this photo here, actually is what mark street looks like from court street.

L

Which is the majority? Nobody, as I mentioned last time, really goes down our street because.

L

There's four houses down here and they're all privately owned um and the back of this uh our.

L

Property of butts the middle school parking lot dumpster, so nobody goes back there either.

L

um And if you can see like, if you want to zoom in all the way down, you could see maybe the corner.

L

Of our roof from court street, um the public, as I mean I've lived in, I lived in portsmouth.

L

For three years, prior, two or four years prior to moving into this house, I didn't know this house.

L

Even existed, having walked down court street 100 times because it's just kind of so tucked away.

L

um And if you scroll up the back of the house, this is what it. uh The solar panels will look like from.

L

The parking lot of hotel, portsmouth.

L

That's what it looks like yeah. This is just another photo of what the bevels look like.

L

L

Might be the same photo it's a little further yeah yeah! It's that that house right there yeah! That's.

L

The roof right there, I didn't photoshop in the solar panels there, because yeah there's just more.

L

For illustrative purposes, and then this is what the back of the house looked like from the parking.

L

Lot at the middle school or the yeah, I guess it's a parking lot. Dumpster. I don't know what did you.

L

Call that are you still putting panels on all sides of that roof, yeah yeah I'd like to I. I would.

L

um You know I did the math um and it works out. You know at around 11 or 12 years it breaks even.

L

Between the front or the back of the house um and then back past that it you know, it's all all gains.

L

um In terms of you know, electricity generation and cost um so so it becomes more cost effective.

L

After about 12 years, um it breaks even around eight years for the whole uh for the whole house.

L

And six years, if you just through the back, um at least in terms of cost, I'm not sure that matters.

L

To the committee or not, but that matters to us uh and that's kind of what it looks like.

L

um You know, and if you scroll up, if, if the committee still has issues with with what.

L

It'll, look like there is an option to put a skin on it and that's a company out of.

L

Boston that makes these skins that cover the the panels that make it blend in better with the roof.

L

um You know and that's something I'm looking into um at least for the funner part of the house. If.

L

That's a issue for the committee, um but overall I think the you know considering the the how far.

L

Back the house sits and and how little the house actually gets seen by the public. I do don't think.

L

It's you know personally, obviously, I'm biased, but I don't think it's um a pretty heavy lift.

L

um In terms of aesthetics, and if you scroll up one more it'll show you kind of what the.

L

Skin looks like on one side of the roof, which is on the left side versus on the other side.

L

And what they do is they match? The you know the skin, to whatever the texture of the roof is.

B

Does it affect the efficiency of the panel uh by about a percent anywhere from one to like.

L

Four percent is what they quote, um so not a huge amount, but it does have a small hit.

L

um But it looks you know they do pretty good. I mean, as far as I could tell from.

L

Their advertising photos, they do seem to do a pretty good job of blending. It isn't it.

B

Expensive with skin uh yeah, I mean they're, not cheap they're like one to two thousand dollars.

L

For I think, roughly what I all have in the front- um and there is some president for this um in.

L

uh Georgetown in dc, in the historic district there they had a similar conversation as we're having.

L

Now, and that was kind of the compromise they had come to for the front part of their house.

L

um And and that salad kind of you know resolved that issue down in georgetown, so it's not without.

L

Precedent that you know these things do get installed in historic districts. um You know.

L

I'd like to be able to do the front without the skin, if I could do it because it is expensive, it's.

L

An additional expense, um but this is just another option to consider just the committee- has an issue.

L

With the existing appearance, what's the skin made out of oh that's a good question. I have no idea.

L

It's some sort of semi-transparent material that you know makes it look one way, but.

L

Mostly you look at sunlight through. That's all I know, so it's a black material that goes over.

A

This panels no they're so they're print. So if you look at actually maybe scroll down to the.

L

Actual photo of what it looks like that's the next one down, so this is like an actual photo.

L

Of what the skin looks like on a solar panel, so normally solar panels, they just look like black.

L

Things, you know black glass on your roof. That's the shingle yeah. One second photo of the shingle.

L

Yeah so basically they they print the photo of a shingle, essentially on these sort of thin sheets.

L

And then cover the shingles with them and it largely masks the appearance, and um you know.

L

And you know combine that with the fact that the tesla panels do have that beveled edge. That kind.

L

Of blends in the the raised part a little bit better, I think it actually looks pretty nice.

A

Somebody's got to have some questions here. Other comments.

I

Thank you, um I'm certainly in support of renewable energy, um portsmouth and.

I

The skin's very interesting to me, I'm I'd, be curious. I'd be in support of trying the skin.

I

On the on the um the north side, I think staff is recommended. This only go on the south facing roof.

I

That's what I no, I think what we were suggesting in your absence two meetings ago right is that it.

B

You're the first applicant to show up in most of our memories, putting panels on every roof. So right.

B

Right so it seemed. Maybe you were you weren't here I don't think. Well, I was the one I was on.

L

Zoom, okay, sorry! So the idea was we. We imagined they would probably be on the south side and not.

B

Not the north side, but I think if, if we were looking at the skins, what you're proposing, if.

B

It's supported here is that the skins be used on the court street facing roof surfaces that.

B

Would be uh marginally visible right unless you walk down mark street yeah these two here.

L

Yeah well so the one on the left is what it would look like with the skin on it. One on.

B

The right is, these would be the two. I think it would have most publications.

B

I see what you mean: yeah yeah, be kind of odd to do one of each. I think here right.

I

um So I'd be supportive of that of that idea. Go to the commissioners.

F

The location is house is lucky because there's really no shadows and you can use all your roofs.

F

Yeah, it's almost running north south. It's a little bit, probably 30 degrees yeah. It's slightly yeah.

F

um And probably the most offensive to me is that is actually just the one.

F

um On the street facing or the driveway facing, the one of the garage is, I think, is even going.

F

To be hard to see, it has an angle, you can't, and I wonder how much you lose by simply removing that.

F

One section this one yeah yeah, I mean yeah, it's I could talk to them about and it's weird, though,.

L

Like tesla, does these like very sort of like set installations, and so like either it's like a.

L

12 000 kilowatt system or a 20 000 kilowatt system, it's like for some reason. I don't.

L

Know why they have a hard time with in between systems. So that's why it kind of ended up this.

L

Way is because that to get to the larger system, it needed that extra roof space.

L

um I mean, I would actually argue the most offensive. Part of this is the power pole, but.

L

Power lines, but I mean that's anyways, but all joking aside, though, like um that that's the.

L

Reason why I ended up on that side um that is facing north, though it's yeah it's facing.

F

Northwest yeah it's northeast, it gets actually a fair amount of light and, especially in the summer.

L

You know anytime, outside of the darkest winter months, it actually gets a decent amount of light.

L

And the calculations for power generation, you know tesla ran through their whatever. You know. Software.

L

They use based on the angle of the sun every day of the year and they could figure out exactly how.

L

Much it generates on average per year, and and it does, it is efficient enough to have it. There.

L

I have a question: martin uh yeah. This is one of the better presentation applications. I've seen.

E

But unfortunately, for me it's too visual for our historic district, and I I know this is a bit of a.

E

Diet, this is a dead on the street, but to me it's still in the district, and so I can't support it.

L

Okay, I I think you know the the solar panels really function more.

L

Like a utility to me than my personal opinion- and you know in terms of utility.

L

I don't think it's all that offensive when you consider things like mini split. You know outdoor.

L

Units and you know the power pole, that's tilting in front of my house and the lines that have.

L

To run across you know, these are things that are sort of essential and and power solar panels. Quite.

L

Frankly, will probably become essential within the next 20 30 years, 20 10 20 years for most.

L

People, so I think it does warrant a slightly different evaluation than sort of just any.

L

You know addition or whatever cosmetic change, to a building understood it's just that right now. It.

E

Is an essential it's a it's an option and for me I cannot support it. Okay, yes, reagan. I had a couple.

D

Questions um have you spoken to your neighbors about this? Is there anybody who's concerned about.

L

um Not well so the two neighbors right now are all rentals, so I haven't talked to them.

L

About it specifically, but I'm half open to doing it, yeah not really because someone.

M

Across the street, who is uh yes yeah? I have not spoken with them about it yet yeah and we have.

D

Certainly could yeah I would like to yeah I mean I would like to know, make sure that.

D

Everyone who, because it's a dead, end street and, as you say, not very many people in the.

D

Public see and I want to make sure that the the people who do look at it all the time are.

D

I would like to know their opinion. um This is a tricky. Isn't this isn't interesting property.

D

um For where and location in the district um like martin, I take uh very seriously the this.

D

The look of this and the aesthetic of it, especially in our historic district.

D

um And you're right that it's almost like the front of the house, is actually less publicly.

D

Visible than the rest of the house I mean you, can you showed lots of pictures, it's actually the.

D

Other sides of the house are actually very visible from parking lots from the middle school and.

D

Things like that, but um at the same time, this the location and the context of this house is not.

D

It doesn't have high integrity around it, so you've got parking lots surrounding this.

D

Rather than lots of the historic houses that probably were there beforehand, um it's not the.

D

South end, it's not the very dense um areas in our district that have a lot of integrity in terms of.

D

The the context, the houses, the surrounding properties and things like that, so I'm leaning.

D

To I mean, I think that I can support this because of that um it's we always talk about setting.

D

Precedent, but we always make sure to be very clear and that we look at every single property.

D

On its own merits and not give blanket approval to anything just because one house gets solar.

D

Panels doesn't mean that everybody, every other house, gets solar panels um and so and the fact.

D

That this house maybe has some old structure in it, but it is essentially a new building and it's.

D

Essentially, a new house- maybe it's older- on the inside, but the exterior. No, I think it's actually.

L

Foundation everything new. As far as I know, it looks like a brand new house, which also makes me.

D

More inclined to be more lenient in allowing newer technologies on this building, because it does.

D

Some it can be more of a stark contrast when you have solar panels on a very historic house that.

J

Is very, has all its authentic. You know uh materials and everything so rambling on and.

D

On this is just my thought process to get to the point where I can support this, um this application.

A

G

um Mr chairman, yes may I say I hope that this has nothing to do with the fact that it's not.

G

Near my house, uh but I I think that in lieu of knowing what other people in of your neighbors.

G

And think of it to me, it seems like a reasonable request on this street in this location because of.

G

Its lessened impact and the the context of of the application. I have an issue with with the panels.

G

Being on the northern side, it seems it seems wrong, uh considering the impact the questionable impact.

G

I'd like the idea of uh it being covered with a material that changes its uh reflectivity, so that.

G

It does not look like a big shiny plastic field. I think that's us for what you suggest small money.

G

And a small impact on the on the units itself to get us over that or get me over that hump of this.

G

Big reflective surface on the roof and- and I think that maybe I'm nibbling away- maybe I'm just being.

G

Hopeful that there'll be an answer to this: how to fit pe photovoltaics into our historic district.

G

But I I'd be in support of this one shy of the panelists over this garage side of the main house.

G

The rear panels and the garage panel- I have no issue, I think I think we should have no issue with.

A

David I'd like to ask you: uh were you considering this cover for all of the panels or for just I.

G

Was I was thinking of the cover for all of the panels in as much as it the impact of the panels.

G

Architecturally are going to be lessened on the back of the building, but the the oddness of a.

G

Large reflective surface, I think, is going to be too much for me to reach out and say this.

G

Is good for our community? I want to cover my butt as well as I can with this thing.

D

Okay, I also just meant to throw in there too that I'm in general generally.

D

um In support of renewable energy, but also solar panels, in that they are.

D

Reversible, essentially, if it breaks, if it goes out, if we find something, that's uh energy, that's more.

D

Efficient and we don't need these anymore, you simply take it off and you patch a couple holes.

D

In the roof and there's very little impact in the long run, all right, margarita, I think.

K

My thought process is probably very similar to reagan's um the this house does have a very new.

K

Look and feel to it because of the renovation reconstruction that happened to it, but I'm.

K

Sensitive to the public includes the people who live next to you. It's not just the general public.

K

And there's a lot of visibility on the other side of the building, the entire middle school.

K

Whole parking lots, people playing, you know on the ball fields. um I think this would be because it.

K

Is a newish looking building? I think this is a place for us to try this skin technology.

K

We need to just like we try new building materials. This is a new building material.

K

And I think we should give it a try if there's going to be a place to try it. It would be here.

K

So I'm in, I would support this. If we put the skin material on all of the surfaces, all the surfaces.

L

um Okay, it could the price could go up drastically with us.

A

um Yeah, you could uh also get rid of the panels if the you know on the north side of the building.

A

And you know you say this is 20. I could see it's a little over 20, and so it would go down to 12.

A

So be it is there anybody in the public that would like to speak about this proposal.

F

No neighbors, oh jesus,.

A

B

No attendees, though okay, um so I'm going to close this public hearing looking for.

A

Emotion and with the stipulation that nick has, and I just reframe what I think.

B

Others have said yeah and maybe add one point to it, but that you can accept every day.

B

I mean these are kind of findings from what reagan and david both said and others support it.

B

The house is new construction, it's on a dead end. If you don't have the panels on that main roof of.

B

The roof of the main house, what appears to be the main house given it was all built.

B

At the same time, which are the ones that have the skins in the photograph.

B

There'd only be an oblique angle view of this, unless you're standing in front of.

B

It the garage is set back 20 to 25 feet from the the right away. It would have the skins on it.

B

And I I think it's not unimportant to whether you agree or not. It's nicer when the panels are.

B

Rectilinear than stepping in an angle down down the the valleys, uh at least to the eye, it's nice.

B

It's the same shape as the garage roof to me, um but the skins would be either on at least that.

B

One or the whole building and that that's what uh david's recommending all the panels, as is john.

B

um So it wouldn't be on the street facing facade of the main house.

B

um Meaning the main body of the house, the taller portion and just for the record, the neighbors all.

B

The neighbors within so many feet here at least 300, were given notice for the public hearing. So.

B

It's important yeah that they were made aware. This meeting was occurring. Okay, it yeah, okay, motion.

D

I mean I'll move that we accept this proposal as presented, I think, um with nick's.

D

um Explanation here I I think the skin, on the main part on the panels on the main part of the house.

D

Facing the street are more important to the total overall look. I think the panel.

D

Is over the garage section both the front and back of that um are at such a low angle and.

D

um Are kind of tucked away and not nearly as as publicly visible or at least visible in the.

D

Whole of this house, because that's so um I don't know if anybody else can can accept just we need.

D

A second one section of the skin, but so you're saying just like he presented so the skin only.

D

On the main part of the main, what you see right, but the the big one on the top would stay yeah.

I

I'll second, that motion.

A

Okay, uh we need some kind of findings. Do we have any other discussion questions about a discussion.

B

Make sure it's going to pass discussion? Well what I would like to say um before the meeting I happen.

A

To bring up that little thing about education, I did not do that on purpose because of this.

A

Project, but it is one of the things that is in our um our zoning uh number 10, whatever we are.

A

um As far as educational goes, the fact that this is visible from the middle school.

A

Is a good thing and that's all I'll say.

K

Clarification are we approving the panels on the taller portion, the north side of the.

K

Main house, the taller portion of the house: yes, that's the motion being skinned yeah; okay, only.

B

Only those being skinned, correct, yeah, as presented by the applicant brain I can amend if I'm not.

D

Going to get full if everybody else says serious problems with that, but um it's a decent compromise.

D

Let's try this out findings.

D

Well, I don't want to have it denied, I don't want to have this motion denied and then he.

D

Goes away with nothing, so I'm I'm just concerned about the glaring glass on the very, very visible.

K

Other side of this building, this a lot of panels will be seen from the public view on that side.

A

The very very visible side, meaning the side that faces the church parking lot.

K

The parking lot of the middle school, where all the kids are the middle school view. I.

F

Think is a picture of it. You don't see much because it's coming right at you.

F

Is that photo you just passed the one above this year? That's the middle school and it's.

D

Behind the middle school, that's the view from the middle school, which they'll see very little only.

D

Buses drive through that driveway and it's a yes second or third floor. That's not highly visible.

D

It's if anything, it's the parking lot behind the church or behind the hotel portsmouth, which again.

I

Is a big parking lot hmm I'll? Add that uh we also received the city council received a letter from.

I

The middle school environmental club asking us for more solar panels in just our district and they.

L

Personally called me out for my own best friend, so I um I don't think they would mind seeing it.

F

As part of their education yeah exactly.

K

Do you need your motion seconded no, no just got a second. um I would say this is.

D

Conservation enhancement of property values and um has compatibility of innovative technologies.

A

All those in favor say aye aye bow tie against against two opposed.

A

There you go. Thank you. Thank you very much.

A

Institution of bruce l, addison, revocable, trust of 2021.

A

Sally e l shout revocable trust of 2021 owners for property located at 17 pray.

A

Street wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovation to an existing structure.

A

Replace windows and a door as per plans on file in the planning department, said property is shown.

A

On assessor map 102 as lot 37 lies within general residence b in the historic district.

N

Hello, everybody, um this is actually um re-approval aqua request for um the land use that was.

N

Approved in april of 2021., um we actually already installed the doors that those were approved.

N

um So we actually on the bottom part of that, drawing on the very far left on bottom. That's our.

N

Garage and that french door was put in, um excuse me one second, though, um so I assume you're sally.

A

Yes, I'm sorry, I didn't introduce yourself yeah and that's my husband bruce over there. Okay, so sorry.

A

No problem keep going so um if you so jennifer ramsey did these drawings for us over a year ago,.

N

um And we wanted to put in french doors, which we already did and you've already proved it, which, on.

N

The bottom left-hand side of this drawing that's our garage, so we have a french door there and then.

N

On the bottom right hand, side, that's the back view of our house where you see the door that's put in.

N

On the right, that's actually a french door, so I didn't have a drawing from hers that shows the.

N

French door and all this together, so what was also approved were the windows on the bottom right hand,.

N

Side that section those three sets of windows and then also, if you look at the left view that small.

N

Window so those were already approved, we didn't do them because of the cost of redoing our kitchen. We.

N

Didn't have we just didn't, have the funds at the time to do that, so what we did phase one.

N

I'll call it is, we installed the french doors. So now, I'm coming back for the request, because the.

N

um Approval expired in april of 2022 um didn't do an extension at the time. I wasn't aware of.

N

The of the deadline, so now we are re-doing the request to for the windows in the kitchen. Only.

N

So what I can tell you what we've done is: we've talked to our neighbors um david ewing, who lives.

N

At 24 salter street there's, um I don't know if you want to look at the tax map. That's in there.

N

But he is directly behind us. He has approved I've uploaded today. So he's the yellow house.

N

So yeah, that's that's where, uh yes, I think that's the one 24 salter street right and then we also.

N

Have the approvals of um the house? That's, I think it's 419 marcy, but the heat's on the corner of.

N

Salter and marcy they can see a little bit of our backyard. I've also gave you the approval of.

N

um Mark and nancy, who are our direct neighbors on prey street. It's the big, victorian.

N

um What we have now there's a fence that butts in between all of our properties of.

N

um Of the one on right next to us on prey street and then also with david and um so everything's.

N

Covered with a very high fence, it's not the picket fence that you see today, I'm not sure.

N

What else you would like me to uh explain to you, or I also uploaded specifications of those windows.

N

So that's the back of the kitchen, the windows as they are today, the tree's not there anymore, but.

N

And that's uh from the from the view of the house: that's right.

N

Next to us on priest street, and then you can see david's in the back. There.

F

Right so that um if you go up here so that's david's view and that fence that you see the.

N

Solid fence that goes around it takes away um yeah. So basically, that's in that fence that you.

N

See there that's between the back of our house and salter street is still there. The tree is not.

N

And I've uploaded um the approvals somewhere from last last time and also from this time.

J

All right, the window, I just want to explain to you right now: the window on the.

N

That small one on the bump out so that our we have the main structure of the house and then that.

N

Section bump out is our kitchen: um that window that you see there that faces marcy street is.

N

um The count it goes below the counter and above the counter, so that one is going to be smaller.

N

So that the window will be above the the kitchen counter.

N

And then the three together and the other one is uh so it's mainly the three one.

N

The three they'll all be crank outs that will be near where the sink is going to be.

A

hmm Okay, who wants to start go ahead? I just have a question sure. Sorry, let's go.

F

Ahead guys, I'm sorry, do we have an idea what you're replacing the windows with.

N

um I set up suspect for marvin windows. um There's the signature, we're looking.

N

At the signature, the elevate um it's just the difference of really of cost and color on it.

M

I was just gonna ask these are all this is all totally in the back.

D

Of the house, nothing can be seen from this 100 in the back of the house. Yeah.

N

Come here and the biggest person that would see it is david who's, 21st, salter who's also approved it.

I

Yes, rich. No thank you. I think you've contacted all your neighbors.

I

um Like commissioner reuben said is in the back of the house, um all your neighbors seem.

I

Happy with it, and um thank you for such a complete application, great thank you.

A

David, while I'm over here nope.

E

Looks very straightforward: I can support this.

N

Thank you still a good project. Okay. Would anybody in the public like to comment on this petition.

A

It doesn't look like it.

J

A

Okay, I'm going to close this public hearing and looking for a motion.

D

The move that we approved, this presentation is or proposal is presented.

D

Second reagan, can you stipulate that they use the marvin elevate window as presented? Yes, I think I.

N

Expect uploaded the signet yeah. I didn't see it in in what was uploaded here so yeah. Oh, I I only.

N

Got the specs back, I asked the selector, we have screens app screens well, they're all case messages.

D

Full screens, but it's in the back, I'm not worried about it.

D

um This says um in concert has conservation and enhancement of property values and.

D

um Has compatibility of design with surrounding properties.

F

Hey all those in favor opposed.

A

Thank you thanks guys.

A

um Petition: okay, petition of chatham portsmouth llc care of chatham lodging.

A

Trust owners for property located at 100 high street, wherein permission is requested to allow.

A

The installation of mechanical equipment on the roof of the existing structure as.

A

Per plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessment map 118.

A

As lot 30 and lies within character, district 5, downtown overlay and historic districts and.

A

Who is here to present this hi hello? Excuse me um megan bosley, I'm here on behalf of dish, wireless.

O

I'm sorry I didn't. I didn't catch your name. My name is megan bosley. Okay, I'm sorry.

O

Okay, are you reading the description on my nope all right, so dish proposes to place.

O

Three antennas: six raus, three junction boxes; three fiber cables and three power; hybrid.

O

Cables at the 60 foot rad that also require a five by seven lease area for ground equipment.

O

So all this is detailed on the next page on these cds or, let's see, I know it's kind of hard to see.

O

If you scroll down, maybe one more page you'll get the layout from the one more yep there. You.

O

Go so this is what it looks like there's going to be three antennas um they're going to be mounted.

O

On sleds on the roof, the middle piece is going to be a. It looks like a like a refrigerator size.

O

Equipment for their various equipments to power everything up and then the power will be going.

O

Down to the bottom, where the electrical room is and it can be painted to match. So it's not as.

O

You know, as from the outside, it will look nicer. It can match the building decor.

O

um That's something you know we do very often um and to you know, make sure it looks good.

O

In this area and um the sleds, so this three antennas um each sled will have one antenna.

O

And three radio heads- and this is to increase the cell service in the area, um and that is it.

I

Foreign I'll be in support of this. I know we get very lots of emails in the city.

I

Council, I'm a friend of cell service in town, so anything that improves that I'm.

O

Absolutely yeah yeah who's, the carrier, dish, wireless.

J

Reagan um I um I was just wondering if I don't know you had tried to locate these a little bit.

D

Closer to the center of the roof line, so they would be less visible to this public.

D

On the street sure, especially I'm thinking of that southern one, that is right up next to the.

D

Edge of the roof line, so the reason why they set it up like this is so it has 360 coverage.

O

And so, when they're pointing their antennas, there there's a specific kind of frequency.

O

That they're trying to aim for and making sure that there's no like tree lines in the way and.

O

You know so there's a lot of trees and they don't put it there they'll tilt it a little bit to make.

O

Sure that it's really getting the coverage that it needs. So that's where that's why they placed.

O

It there and they chose the other locations, but it the general idea, is to make sure they.

O

Have 360 coverage? Doesn't that side actually not follow that rule and it would be better out here.

B

It looks like it's nested in there or, if it's you know, if it's looking somewhere, if it's trying to.

D

Point southwest or something can you put it, can you put it behind that other overrun so that it's.

D

Just in towards the end over here, inner side of the building, this one right look.

B

At the area yeah put it here instead of on this base, or I'm thinking even just.

D

On the other side of the side of that box, that box yeah under the parapet there, the.

O

um Yeah we can, we can certainly change the the design of the antennas if that's suitable.

B

I think just to be clear, I think what she's suggesting I'm toggling back and forth right.

B

Because we don't see this building on the elevation, we're only looking at this sure.

B

Right moving this antenna from this green enclosure from here to here or back here, okay,.

J

Right yeah, that's what you're saying what we're saying: yeah yeah we can. We can definitely talk to.

B

The engineers and ensure that that's okay, because you'll see this from the hill over here. This might.

B

Be the optimal actually here that might be the best place so you're moving at about six feet.

A

Just just around the I mean yeah, I understand trying to get the right angle, so it's just yeah.

D

It depends on where they're trying to focus that thing, but that would be a lot better if.

D

We could move it back there: okay, yeah. We can talk to the engineers and ensure that's still the best.

O

Area, you know it can still get the coverage it needs, but I don't see a problem with that: okay,.

F

I couldn't find a dimension: how tall is it oh um they're about six feet so um they'll be about 60.

O

Feet high with the center line will be about 60 feet high and the the elevator overrun is.

F

Just five feet, so it's the only height I could find on this map um condition s. Yes, that's what.

O

The building is, and then there'll be the center line of it is 60, so they'll be about 63 feet. Yep.

F

So the antenna will be higher than that. It's 53, yes, the antenna will be higher than the rooftop.

J

Yes, martin uh you're mounting some equipment on the side of the building.

O

No they're, all on sleds, so they're like these big metal pieces that they they put onto the roof and.

O

Then the there's a pipe and they they mount it to the pipe. So nothing will be penetrating.

O

The roof other than they're going to put some power lines through the the roof to get to the.

O

Bottom of the uh the basement for the electrical the power hybrids: okay, I'm looking at sheet a3.

E

Yeah and I'm not even sure which elevation. That is because it's an l-shaped building.

E

If I'm correct it's this side, I think it's not it's right here. I think it's not a very.

D

Precise elevation, not an exact um and that's the street, so that's that's hanover. So it's a.

E

Diagram, so basically it doesn't even show the slope of the street um is that on the.

E

Exterior of the building, I'm sorry: what is on the exterior look at sheet? A3 a3, okay,.

F

Right there what's the question: what is the black lines going down the front? Oh so that.

O

Is that's internal exactly so they're going to penetrate the top of the roof and then they're.

O

Gonna go through the ceilings to get to the bottom, so you won't see that on the outside. Thank you so.

B

Can I just ask a question again? John certainly I mean it seems to me looking at the sleds and.

B

The clearance you've got below the unit on the sled. This is going to be by far the most visible.

B

Intrusive piece to the eye here that this should be pushed towards the middle of the building. As.

B

Much as possible, given how tall it is we started here, but this is actually not that not bad.

B

Beefy, given it this one over here next to the apartments, if you go look at a3.

B

I mean the signature corner of the building. If I'm reading it right. This looks like high.

B

Street- and this is hanover- is that the case is this hanover down here, and this is high. What.

B

It is confusing because we don't have all these windows they're bricked up here with the slope.

B

Of the street, not even the building is this: the corner of the building. This is south. It.

D

Says, building southeast elevation so help me out where's the corner of high in hanover is it? Is it.

B

Here, yes, that's what I thought, but it is megan. Yes, I'm sorry I'm trying to follow along here.

B

Drew this wait. I thought this and not me 100 high, not 100 market. Excuse me, yeah, yeah, hanover and.

B

High so that if you go in the hotel you're going in this corner, is that correct? Yes? Well, let's make.

A

Sure, because it doesn't look anything like that, no it doesn't mark the screen down on the end. It's.

E

Just you got to compare it to the roof uh plan. Well, I did okay, I did it is. I think that is these.

E

Are the three pieces you're looking at so we've got the bullnose on the corner right? Okay, not a.

B

Good elevation, but this to me still is the most visible piece of equipment given how high it is.

B

That it should be pushed back from the corner. Okay, that's an opinion of one. I mean. I think this needs.

B

To go here, and this needs to go back yeah, I agree if they can push that back from the edge as much.

D

As possible, okay into the center of the building, I mean that that's not yeah the farther from the.

F

Edge the less visible get it over here: yeah yeah, okay! Is there a certain distance distance exactly.

B

That you would want to see yeah, I think, in order to not have you come back, we need to specify.

B

I mean, I think you need to get it around the junction of the of these two wires right. The.

B

Whatever the the cables are here right back to this corner, okay, I think, if you do come back.

E

You give us an actual elevation and you give us a view of what it actually will look like.

E

And not this sort of guesswork, artificial, bad, badly produced elevation.

A

Okay, I I mean, I think that this is pretty simple and we're asking him to push two units back.

A

So I know that we're all upset because we have a bad elevation here, but I don't think.

A

That we really need to, um could we make a make it a specific request to have the unit in line.

G

With the elevator penthouse, so they would at least have a a mass to so to speak, lean against.

B

uh Okay, so let's give it a name: the one at the corner, the one at the prime right corner of the.

B

Building, what is that piece of equipment called the antenna antenna, so the corner antenna? How.

B

About that so the game, so I know it's small print, but that's gamma we're talking about over here. Oh.

B

Oh, that one: okay, okay, beta, okay! Okay! So it's do you call that the beta antenna is that good.

P

Correct everybody good on that yeah, calling it the beta so david's, suggesting the beta antenna.

B

Be pushed pushed back into here david. Can you look at the screen into this? That's correct right here.

G

That's correct, it doesn't seem like it's off the path and, like I say, gives it something to to be.

G

Linked to so it's not just sitting in the middle of the field, so maybe no closer to the facade of.

B

The building than this intersecting dark line- yeah, I understand so you could still set it.

B

Here on the corner, if it's going out multiple directions: okay, okay, so beta would be no closer.

B

Than the intersecting, what are these lines representing just wires, cables yeah? Those are.

O

The cable lines- okay and then the other one is called what gamma gamma. Oh this is this a gamma.

O

Yeah, that's gamma, so the gamma antenna would be located in this location. If you can't make that.

B

Work, you come back for administrative approval because I'm not sure if anyone's going to like.

B

This any better given what's over here, okay, does that make sense for a other than martin fine.

E

Thank you. um We can make that work. I can resubmit the drawings. Be me how about the uh nick could.

F

You look at the a antenna, the witch, the one we didn't talk about yeah this thing. No, no, no yeah do.

B

We have an elevation for that yeah that should be moved back towards the middle of the building. Yeah.

A

Yeah well yeah, why not or they they haven't, shown us? What that one's going to look like correct.

B

Is there another elevation showing high street, I don't think so yeah then I think you do that. You.

A

Think about high street is this a narrow street and you have houses directly across the street so.

A

It's virtually impossible to look up at that angle um as opposed to hanover street, where you have the.

A

Parking garage- and you have a pretty wide street sidewalk so and all that stuff, less worried about.

D

That one I'm, I am less worried about that one damn looks like it's the easiest one to move yeah.

F

Just move it to the alignment with this one, these two you're moving into the middle yeah I mean and.

D

Also, as long as it keeps the functionality, you know, you're optimal right as well.

B

We do have the moffatt lad over here, john, the backyard which is way down below. I know this.

E

Sounds like a simple, you know push things around in here and there and you know yeah.

E

I'm not comfortable with the idea that you know the presentation gave us a bad elevation.

E

We're talking we're just spitballing here about move it over here move it. I don't.

E

Want to see, I want to see where it's actually going to be. I want to see an actual elevation.

E

And well, I'm sure you have the resources for it I mean I can produce new drawings by tomorrow. If.

O

Email would suffice, or if I have to come back here again, you'd have to come back.

B

And we don't have a process, can we can we just do it as a is it administrative approval? Well,.

B

Still have to come back in a month: yeah, yeah, okay. So what's the comfort level of everybody.

F

I would like some views of you, know the building and if what you can or can't see as as well as.

F

Of official height I mean the first view shows it's less than the elevator override and she's.

F

Telling me it's another foot higher than that, so I agree with martin. These are my good views and.

F

Good understanding of what we're proving I just don't want you guys to do something that we're not.

E

Happy with and then it's a mess, let's get it done right and yeah when they're when there's a new.

O

Construction on these rooftops, the dish engineer and our engineer goes in and they they choose. The.

O

Spot that nobody else gives us any opinions. So that's why it's good to hear what you have to say.

O

We can certainly move anything you need to move in order to get this to get approved. That's not a.

O

Problem, there's no other carriers on the roof that we have to worry about. So um if it's just redoing.

O

The drawings we can simply, we can absolutely do that. I think you would want that too. I mean I live.

O

Two hours away, if I have to come back, I will, but it would be great. If I didn't megan you can you.

K

Can zoom in oh, I can yeah. You could do that? Oh okay, great so february 3rd, but we would need to.

B

Have this sure, two weeks in advance sure cool, build uh drawings that look like the building.

A

Yeah both elevations yeah the elevation. uh I would tell you, though, that um just.

A

To simplify your life, a little bit is: there's no need for all of the technical jargons that.

A

Are in here we don't care, there's nothing to do all we're concerned about is the look understood.

O

Okay, do you want to see you know? Renderings of you know, photoshop, like the solar planner panels,.

O

Or is that is that necessary? It would be good. It could be helpful just so that you can understand.

D

Where it might be visible, sure, okay that'll also help your designer, maybe make it less visible. Sure.

O

Okay, thank you. We will do that all right, so should I moved to continue this to next.

D

Month february, 3rd second yeah next month, it's been a second dude, all those in favor.

A

Aye aye, thank you. Thank you. There you go.

A

A

Petition of russell and sprague llc owner for property located at 46 state street, wherein.

A

Permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure, install.

A

Granite sills on brick facade where sloped mortar was used before as per plans on file.

A

In the planning department said, property is shown on our system map 105 as lot 11 and.

A

Lies within character, district 4 and the historic districts, and who is here to present this thank.

Q

You, mr chairman, and commissioners, my name is ben o'jay, I'm the general contractor for this project.

Q

um We were granted permission several months ago to replace the the brick on both sides.

Q

Of the building, but we neglected to address the sills specifically and the sills of all.

Q

The windows are just um sloped mortar, which is deteriorating very quickly, so we're replaced.

Q

We've replaced all the actual brick and what we'd like to do for the window. Sills is use granite.

Q

And I I took a few pictures: just walked, I don't know. 100 paces got a um pictures of some other.

Q

Granite sills on buildings on state street, these might all be on state street they're all within a.

Q

Very short distance and then that's uh an actual picture of the granite sills that we've used with.

Q

You know this is obviously after we took the old brick off the gray parge coat. It's just a.

Q

Structural reinforcement of the inner wives and then the um the brick that we're using is that.

Q

One brick there we actually have a sample of the brick and the granite here. If you'd like to see it.

A

Questions uh that see. Excuse me, mr chairman, yeah, um that sample that you.

G

Have that someone is holding up with your hand, um is that what you think of using.

Q

Yes, I have a piece right here if you'd like to see it um sure sure I'd love to see it.

A

No boy, I know where you're going david, you do yeah yeah, you've already lost all right.

G

That's great: that's a flame texture yeah! um I don't know if it's going to pass all that. Well,.

G

Brick but the bricks already there yeah yeah, you said a month ago, a couple of months ago.

G

Did we review any brick on the front of this building a couple of months ago? It's exempt to.

B

Do that, that's why we didn't review it? Yes, okay, correct. Can I ask you, hey which one of these.

A

Surfaces would be the one that would be exposed. Is it this surface here it'll be two surfaces it'll.

Q

Be that that will be sloped and then the edge that your finger, the rough face or the smooth.

B

I mean: isn't there a rough and a smooth yeah? It's not going to be like this. He was talking.

G

Thermal finish, yeah yeah! You want a thermal finish. Yes yeah. Is it going to be like this.

A

Yes, don't you think this is rather thin? Didn't I mean what is this? This isn't even as thick.

A

As the brick window sills that we like people to use yeah, it's a brick thick yeah, so this.

A

So you've already put your bricks in there. Of course, you can cut them out.

A

So your examples are a brick and a half to two just my opinion. Then it's thin right.

A

So, mr chairman, may I say, um as the purpose of would just say, for lack of a better.

G

Word, education. uh uh I went back to the records the applications of this building.

G

And I was surprised- and I reminded myself, although I'd forgotten, it's a dive shop.

G

I remember, of course you do. It was quite a battle and they were in the process of removing the.

G

Rust, exciting uh on on that shape, they retained the three windows they were, which were made for.

G

Wood frame, and not very pretty when it came to the brick, and so they had permission they got sought.

G

Permission and received it to replace those wood frame windows and, along with that, replaced all the.

G

Wood frame windows in the building in the process of doing that they removed the sub-cills, and I.

G

Think you're, probably familiar with the expression of subseal. They had wooden sills, basically built.

G

Into the masonry, some people have them on their office buildings uh and uh they weren't granite.

G

That's why there's no granite sales there and the reason that there's this sloped cement.

G

Wash there is whoever did that work now, 30 years ago, uh yanked out the wood frame, windows and the.

G

Wooden sub-sills threw them away because they were rotten and made the windows a larger size.

G

So that they would fit that opening and got by with just some smeared cement which didn't work.

G

Never did work wasn't ever going to work, but the check cleared yeah um anyway. So now the applicant.

G

Is wanting to try to retrofit fit a traditional uh look to the window by having a stone sill in.

G

Place, which certainly is a better deal than wooden ones, uh but, as you no doubt uh were referring to.

G

Putting a piece of stone in at an angle like it's a piece of wooden windowsill is not how.

G

It's ever been traditionally done, the stone sills are have vertical sides, horizontal bottoms and.

G

Their top surfaces were carved hewn to give them the pitch that's required. So even in the example.

G

The left-hand example of the applicant's pictures it shows a traditional sill now, one of the other.

G

Things that happens with these traditional forms of silences. They were laid up as the building was.

G

Being laid up, in other words, the masons, didn't cut a course, a brick in half. They laid a course.

G

A brick and then set their stone sills on it and then ranged upward from there to make their.

G

Window openings, so the retrofit's going to be a little bit dicey and it's going to take some.

G

Will from the applicant to have it look as good as the one in the left-hand photograph of which.

G

Is what I would support if they wanted to do this david? You know I didn't want to interrupt you, but.

A

Besides, you know the putting it on an angle which doesn't bother me as much as it bothers.

A

You as far as the construction method, it's the actual thickness of the material. If you were to.

A

Look at the left hand side an older granite. It is the thickness of two bricks and if you look.

A

At the right hand, side, albeit it is a new sill um it is. I would estimate one and a half bricks.

A

Thick, so it's three and a half inches or so, but the these, the granite sill that he presented is.

A

Inch and a half thick, I mean you know I was holding it like that. That's my whole problem.

A

But anybody else have any comments here. Questions yeah. I share the same concern that it is. It is.

E

Kind of thin for profile- and it is kind of awkward in that it's squared and you're, going to angle. It.

E

um I got to think it. You could probably find a more appropriate sill with a two brick height.

E

And the proper angle, won't you agree. um uh We can certainly get thicker stone. It's it's a uh it's.

Q

Just a time thing: um uh what um could you clarify uh what you mean about the angle? Do you want the.

Q

Sill to be flat, no, I don't, I don't think you want it flat nope. I don't think we want it flat right.

E

I I could deal with it. I could deal with it being slightly sloped in the face being slightly sloped.

E

If we could get if we could get the thickness of a tube brick unit- okay, two brick, so that's.

Q

Going to be four inches thick, um I don't, I don't think either. One of those are that thick.

Q

um But probably the left hand one is, this looks like it is. I think, it'll be more than two it'll.

E

Be like a brick being two and two-thirds or two and an eighth or two and a quarter it'll.

E

Be you know a little more okay, a little more okay, so, okay, so the um the thickness.

Q

It's just more more than what we have not necessarily four inches or is there.

E

The first thing everyone saw was held in that was okay, yeah sure.

G

Go measure the one that you're taking a photograph of. I think that that's your best direction to go.

G

We'll provide the of course, the cleanest of the installations right, yeah right. So these.

Q

Two photographs, so one thing I notice about the granite sills along state street is every single.

Q

One was different on each building, but this is, as you point out, I mean that's the that's. The oldest.

Q

Right there yeah the other photo, I included, um it is thinner and it is sloped and it's new yeah.

A

It's more like three inches thick. It's also it's more texture than most of our. Yes, that's a very.

Q

Rough finish, what textured, even than your flame sample? Yes yep! That would be good. I had a quick.

A

Question, okay, um does it does it really need to be sloped very much because I just don't know what.

D

The when the current windows have, if they already have a sill sort of an angled cell, no, like david.

Q

Was saving you know it was? This was the the that original thick wooden sill was removed decades ago.

Q

um And so you know, there's uh we don't have to slope it very much just so that there's a.

Q

You know the water's not going backwards, I think so right um yeah. I just couldn't tell from here.

D

Whether or not there was enough of a still already in the window to help keep it away it's if it's.

D

Pretty shallow, then, I understand wanting to have a little bit of an angle of the stone yeah. Okay, okay,.

K

So, john, oh yes, um I I'm in support of something a little bit thicker, but I'm also looking very.

K

Closely at the one photograph that you showed us and measuring against the courses of brick that.

K

We can see I'm wondering if, to a certain extent, you're going to be constrained with the space.

K

That you've got when you take that first course out and where the window lands, and I I don't.

K

Think we should be asking you to change out the the windows in order to get the the thicker sill.

K

Equal to the one, that's down the road right, but I do think that we need to fit the space. That's.

K

There and unfortunately that might mean you're going to have a bunch of different.

K

Sill heights: um I think we we can, we can make all the sales the same thickness and I'm and we will.

Q

I mean mine will make it thicker than what I just showed you.

Q

um Unless I'm missing something I mean I could like get back to you in the morning.

Q

Nick and you know after I take a look, make it fit the project fit the project, fit the.

K

Project I mean you've got pretty defined spaces here. Yes, use use all the space. Okay.

Q

Thank you, okay, any other, or else within anybody in the public like to speak on this project.

A

Discloses public hearing looking for emotion, well, I have a question: do we want, or I guess.

D

Depends on who makes the motion if we're going, to define a thickness or have an administrative.

D

Approval I can come back and give us a mock-up or a presentation of certain thickness of stone.

D

I think, given the applicant doesn't really want to come back in three weeks but nod your head.

B

The other way, if that's not true, you probably want to go at something between a brick and a half and.

B

Two bricks, but they all have to be the same: okay, fine and let them go look at the building and yeah.

B

And you'll put a slight minimal angle on that flat. Sill right, less is more! No, no dave. No I'm good! It.

G

It it doesn't obviously have to be historic material because it's not a historic material.

G

Those days are gone, it's just it when somebody's actually trying to utilize a historic form to.

G

Present something it seems like an august body like ourselves, should be able to try to encourage.

G

Them to get it right, that's all yeah. Will that stipulation not do. I think that'll be fine good.

B

Is that good for the applicant okay? Okay, fine? I I move that we.

D

um Approve the application with that stipulation. Second, then,.

D

um This preserves the integrity of the district and has compatibility of design.

D

With surrounding properties, good alrighty, then all those in favor say aye aye opposed.

G

Thank you very much. You're welcome.

A

All right now, we've got a petition of novocure incorporated owner for property located at 64.

A

Vaughn street, where permission is requested to allow exterior changes to a previously approved.

A

Design as per plans on file in the planning department said, property is shown on assessor map.

A

126 is lot one and lies within character, district 5, downtown overlay and the historic district.

A

Please introduce yourself good evening. I'm mark muller from jsa design. Welcome, uh represent.

R

Representing the applicant nova cure with me tonight for support, if, if required, dean smith.

R

From nova cure and uh shane forsley from hampshire development, um the previous owner, but also now the.

R

Contractor so you may recall, when this project was approved in late 2021, we indicated that a change.

R

In ownership and occupancy was pending, so in january, of 2022 novacare did acquire the project.

R

And we've proceeded to incorporate their business occupancy into this previously approved shell.

R

You'll recall we had at that time, residential on the upper floors with a to be determined.

R

Commercial use at the at the ground floor so before we had it approved in anticipation of.

R

That change of use from residential to business we removed all of the exterior balconies that dotted.

R

The facade there were quite a few of them both on the von maal side, as well as on the uh worth.

R

Lot side, so those were all removed, make sure that it's accessible to all of their employees.

R

They would like to extend the elevator up to serve that roof level, whereas before we didn't.

R

Have we had an overrun, but we didn't have the actual elevator serving that level so.

R

That is the crux of the basic change to this elevator overrun and I'll go through some of.

R

The shapes and sizes here momentarily and also um the uh size of the roof terrace, because this.

R

Is now a business occupancy and there's uh likely to be the potential for more people.

R

Utilizing that roof deck than when it was just a residential project, the size of the roof deck has.

R

Increased and we've also introduced as a second means of egress off of that roof, and all of these.

R

Components the elevator overrun and the second means of egress and the roof deck surface itself.

R

All of those we believe fall under the definition of a roof of pertinence. We've got we've calculated.

R

The square footage of all of these components, including mechanical equipment, that is on the roof.

R

And all of those combined still fall with on uh under the allowable percentage, for roof of.

R

Pertinances and the proper set packs and heights a little bit meant so there's quite a few drawings.

R

In this package, not all of them reflect changes, as some are here just for reference, so the best.

R

Place to start uh nick, if you wouldn't mind, uh if you could scroll to the third page, which is sheet.

R

A two point: a this is the previously approved plan. So back from november of of 2021, and you.

R

Can see that at that time we were contemplating a fairly sizable skylight right in the middle of.

R

That roof surrounded by a very small roof deck, and that was part of the approval uh package at.

R

That time, so, if you scroll down to the very next sheet, you see what is being proposed.

R

The the area that is got the horizontal lines on the right. That is the extent of.

R

The roof deck itself just to the right of it that vertical bar, that is, a termination of a.

R

Stair, that would that does have a sloped surface to it, which you'll see in an elevation momentarily.

R

And then the larger elevator overrunning component there there's a a stair and the.

R

Elevator overrun and a small elevator lobby that provides access out onto that terrace.

R

What's unique about bringing the elevator up this high to serve that roof? Is that is wrong, probably.

R

Aware an elevator overrun is by the time you have the hoist beam, the clearance, the thickness of.

R

The roof and insulation that are above the shaft itself, it's roughly 14 feet from the floor. You're.

R

Serving to the very top of the roof, so that's what is represented at the very peak of this. um This.

R

Element and and scroll to the next sheet, because I think you see it in elevation there, so this.

R

Drawing above the drawing above was the previously approved elevation, where we just had the the yes.

R

The skylight and the this basically was a stair um component and then down below is the proposal.

R

Where, where what we're doing is introducing the same architectural roof, scape that the addition on.

R

The left has so, in other words, it's a flat top to mansard expression. uh We've we've introduced some.

R

Shed gables on the sides to add some additional interest and when we've, when we've created this.

R

uh Hip top to mansard expression, the height of that element itself, uh following the the zoning.

R

Definitions were calculating to the midpoint uh between the the soffit at the bottom of the 30 and.

R

12 pitch to the peak and that midpoint represents the height of that roof of pertinence, and it is.

R

Below 10 feet above the allowable height, so you can see there's a red line on the bottom, drawing.

R

That uh right there exactly and it's roughly nine feet three inches to that midpoint, which.

R

Which is also the roughly the height of that second means of egress as well, so those so.

R

Both of those elements fall within that 10 foot, uh vertical definition of of the roof of pertinence.

R

um So, let's, uh let's let's continue so this is sheet so sheet. uh Two point.

R

A 3.1 that is the previously submitted avon, mall, side uh and and the proposal uh down.

R

Below again, that second means of egress that you see uh with a slope top is set.

R

Back 16 feet from the facade, so it and and it's roughly you know, nine foot three above the.

R

The height and you'll, see later in the in the package. There are perspective views much like.

R

You were requesting from earlier applicants, but we provided these views from various.

R

Stations around the site to show you the visual impact of some of these elements,.

R

um It's to a a4 a4 is the um previously approved and proposed north elevations.

R

um There are a few minor um revisions that I'd like to just point out, while we're here.

R

They they show up in a larger elevation later, but in addition to the elevator overrun there.

R

Are a couple of minor uh changes um and it's easy just to look at the garage door. If you all.

R

Remember we have this, this small driveway alley uh right in the center exactly and it's set back.

R

Fairly uh fairly deeply from hanover street in the previous application, you can see directly.

R

Above it, the windows that stacked above that were one group of of a triple uh mulled windows, and we.

R

Because of the interior layouts, that became a a prime location for public restrooms, which.

R

Have a demising wall right in the center, so we've broken apart that triple made it uh two windows.

R

With a space in between to accommodate the the needs of the interior and then you'll also see.

R

That there's a couple of small mechanical louvers right above the garage door. Those would be those.

R

Would be painted in the same color as the field of the clappers that they'll be setting in they.

R

Appear a little stronger in this, because just the number of lines in in the drawing software.

R

So a next sheet day, five well, eight five point: one through five point: eight are all of the.

R

Enlargements, oops sorry, I missed this one drawing so this was uh 4.2. Go ahead. 4.1 4.1.

B

What I think a 4.1 you, you can see the previously approved above and proposed below, so that is the.

R

um The side facing the alley and and 25 maple one so it just it- does poke its head up above.

R

The rooftop that we have introduced some windows on that side as well to break up the the.

R

The size, the size of that facade and also would bring some daylight into the elevator lobby below.

R

uh 4.2 there's one um one element: I do want to point on here exactly right where the cursor is.

R

Pointing um again part of the reconfiguring, this building for a commercial office use versus the.

R

Residential, we did introduce a new egress stair within the building and and this particular stair.

R

Needs to egress directly out so we've we've placed that door that terminates directly out.

R

um Where you see in on the right hand, side and we, because it's a single door.

R

We've chosen to align it, so it falls directly below the single windows that.

R

You see on that facade, so it just lines up exactly with with those.

R

um And then the next uh four or five drawings are the enlarged views. Now, generally, these all.

R

Show any revisions that we've just been discussing would be visible in these, so in this in this first.

R

Drawing you don't see any of these changes um that we've just discussed, so you can just scroll.

R

Through neck and all this I'll stop you so here you see the introduction of that egress terminus.

R

And the you just get a glimpse of that louver, that is at above the garage door in that location.

R

um These, for our are a little bit uh further away when you're looking over la carreta, you do see.

R

Just the top of uh of that over build you'd have to look quite closely in that in order to see it.

R

But I want to share that with you as well. The von mall side.

R

um You don't see any of these. These changes, as I mentioned before, even that second means of egress.

R

It's 16 feet away from the von maal facade, so you're not going to see it from eye level.

R

um And this is the one from uh from uh the worth lot that does show just that. The top.

R

Of uh this overbuild that you see there with one gable, um they're, mostly shed dormers, that.

R

We have placed on the perimeter, but in this particular facade facing the uh the war plot.

R

We've introduced one gable, dormer very similar to the one that is on the left side of the edition.

R

um Again, another view from from the worthwhat side: you can um uh none of the adjustments.

R

That I've just described are are really visible here. You do just get a glimpse.

R

um At where the two two additions come together.

R

So, and these this last this next drawing here, it probably should have been ordered slightly.

R

Differently but we've I just placed all of those views all together on one sheet with a.

R

Key plan for your reference, if you needed to see exactly where these views were were taken from.

R

um Partial elevations again, these are mostly for reference. We haven't changed anything on.

R

These elevations, I'm just showing you some of the uh what you see on the rooftop beyond.

R

uh In this proposal, the roof deck itself because it's set it is set back from the facade.

R

We are, you know, keeping people away from the you know the parapet of of.

R

Of the original building and we'd like to also introduce a um a very simple and as.

R

um Is invisible of a guard rail as we can just to keep.

R

People contained within the roof deck itself, so they're not wondering about.

R

um And we're proposing a cable, a cable railing system uh around the perimeter of this deck.

R

um Scroll through you know, point out no real changes to that. One.

R

Other than what you saw beyond in the rooftop.

R

And this is just an enlargement of the drawing I mentioned before, uh of of the garage door with.

R

The mechanical louvers that are uh uh our show and again just to just remember implant, how far back.

R

From hanover street, in that particular facade, is it's: it's there's a 20-foot wide easement through.

R

There again the details were there for reference, and we've introduced these similar color.

R

Rendered versions of the drawings that you saw in line form before.

R

So there, for instance, you you can just get a glimpse of the that gabled dormer.

R

That is on that yeah exactly so, while, while the elevations, it has more of a prominence.

R

But when you, when you look at it from the way that the building will be perceived.

R

By pedestrians, this is, this is more uh representative of what it's going to look like.

A

Idea again, no no visible changes on this facade.

R

Excuse me sorry and oh no, you go ahead. Yep and we've also introduced a couple of bird's eye. Wait.

D

I have a question sure if we can.

A

Could be the same question yeah? So I don't understand. I don't know if this is just.

D

um A rendering issue, but the piece that you've got pointed it out there that whole thing that's.

D

Visible um is that going to be collaborated because it that would not then match the.

D

The roof that you're trying to replicate yes, well, there's a couple different.

R

um There's it might be easier to explain it on the next couple drawings and we can have.

R

That that dialogue um and and it may answer your question um and and probably this bottom.

R

These two together, we can try to illustrate what um what we've done so in most of the.

R

Main building, that's, on the left hand, side all of those dormers that are there.

R

They emerge out of that sloping plane, which is this artificial slate in the elevator over run.

R

There are a couple of instances because of desired head clearances and issues like that from internal.

R

Issues where there are some facades that are but don't emerge from the sloping plane, they emerge.

R

From the base, so in other words it emerges from the outer footprint when it does that I've chose.

R

Chosen to keep the collabores, which are there um intact, and um I see that line of reasoning.

M

But I don't agree with it. I would think that you want to keep that dark and roofline so that it.

R

Doesn't show up yes, the game, the the gable and in particular right there. I I definitely see.

R

Your point that that would have the same kind of shingled yeah impediment. If you will yeah below.

D

The window, I don't care, but it I would think that you wouldn't want something bright up there. That.

D

Would catch your attention I understand yeah? Can I ask something else: while we're on this.

R

Image, apparently, you've got a lot of space above those windows in that door and that's obviously.

B

The main uh port of entry to the roof deck does it make any sense to run this roof out a little.

B

Further and maybe bracket underneath it to provide cover for the door and break up this blank mass.

R

um It it certainly would be doable to extend it out. I don't know that I I want to extend any of.

R

The footprint out any further, but just you know the shed roof, perhaps with a bracket or.

R

Two to right, you know 18 inches or so yeah it could. It could easily be done that way.

B

Does not make any sense to others.

A

Well, it's a very practical, functional too right, yeah, it's a functional, practical idea, very good.

R

And the um I think, the next, the next there's a couple of just obligatory sections here to sort of.

R

Show that point you were just looking at uh nick, where the the door, which leads to the elevator.

R

And and the egress there so there's one door out to the roof terrace. That brings you into a small.

R

Lobby you go into the elevator or down the egress, stair and, and that illustrates the other, the the.

R

Point there where there are collaborates below um and then the same shingled uh overbill. If you will.

K

Yes, can I could I ask a question as a matter of curiosity,.

K

um You've created quite a large structure around the elevator shaft and overrun 1200 square feet.

K

um Was this done for um the mathematical machinations necessary to meet the code? Is it.

K

Done for possible programming that might happen a little a little bit of both. So in order to.

R

In order to have the the flat top, which was really above the elevator shaft itself, that.

R

Really drives the geometry of where I can start sloping um so, for instance, um nick. If you would.

R

Scroll to a bird's eye- maybe I can describe it better if you're looking at the burnside.

R

um So the the element that you see on top of the overbuild that looks almost.

R

Looks like it has an x through it, that's the footprint of the shaft itself, so there are.

R

All of those corners are prescribed for me, that's where I can start sloping and and the the way the.

R

Required run of the stair, that's adjacent to it, where it terminates next to the roof deck.

R

Itself that prescribes the outer face of where those doors are so now. I have two two points to.

R

Work with and I'm trying to connect those two one, starting with a 3 and 12 finishing with.

R

A 30 and 12. so you're saying your rise and you're run of your roof dictated on one side.

R

And then I'm trying to just match it on the left, so it's it's it's required on one side, it's more.

R

um Subjective on the other side, if you will, but it creates a symmetrical overbuild, if you will.

R

And and the the there's there are some small I'd call them like clear story, windows that.

R

Are facing the 25th maplewood building those will illuminate the uh the elevator lobby on.

R

The other side again this elevator, because we've got three stories on one side of the.

R

Elevator and four on the other, we have elevator lobbies on both sides serving this. This building.

R

So those clear story windows are illuminating, a lobby on the other side.

B

Just to add to that margot, you know, I think, to answer your question is well the mansard.

B

Roof design with the hip top manser was the only viable. It's the only viable solution to.

B

Provide the headroom needed to support this so they're just lucky: there's a mansard below it.

B

Yeah yeah right again, and I think if the last, um if this isn't the last page, the last page in this.

R

Keep keep going, it's a color drawing so once you get to it, you'll know it.

R

um It's a well. This is the other side. Those were the clear story windows I just mentioned.

R

um The ones that the small cluster uh right there exactly and the the last you know this drawing.

R

Illustrates the sort of the mathematics of the areas that we had talked about so everything as I.

R

Understand it, everything that stands up above the roof, so mechanical equipment stairs the.

R

Deck itself, the handrail, the elevator overrun. All of that um uh cannot exceed 33 percent of.

R

The total footprint of the building, so we so we've gone through the the calculation there.

R

um And all of those components that we have at the moment uh it comes to 29 so, including all.

R

Of that pink area, which is pretty sizable, but it is the roof deck so there's still.

R

A few percentage points in case there are other mechanical surprises as we're. You know, building.

R

This building any needs that that still are yet to come up. uh We do have the ability to accommodate.

R

um That at that, at the moment that what we think we we know what we need.

A

I'd just like to ask you about the green grid: roof yeah, the the the notion that we would like to.

R

um Introduce I'm not sure if you're all familiar with it, but even um it basically is a is, is a.

R

Plastic tray that can come in various thicknesses, but what what we would love to be able to do is.

R

Is use the the thinnest of the ones that are available? It's roughly two and a half inches.

R

Deep and it comes with a pre-planted medium that you would buy from a company- and these are these.

R

Are almost like a if you went to a nursery and you bought a pallet of ajuga or vinca or.

R

Something like that, it's it's almost like that and you could set these grids up and and we you.

R

Know we would love to run as much of that around the perimeter of the rock and it can set right.

R

On top of the rubber roof, so instead of someone sitting on the terrace and just looking out over.

R

An expanse of uh uh membrane roofing, you could put these green grids uh there. They won't be visible.

R

To anyone, but the the people on the deck itself or the butters that are have a aerial view of this.

R

um uh But uh you know we could align them um wherever we have the ability to do that.

R

They do hold a little bit of water, so they actually do sort of slow down the.

R

um The amount of runoff that you have, um but the thinner device that we would be.

R

Using again it's a weight issue, so um we are, we are making some structural renovations to.

R

The roof uh to be able to accommodate the the added load of of an assembly use for a terrace.

R

um But we'd like to not do that to the whole roof. We just want to limit where, where it occurs, and.

R

Keep it right in the center another question: um you have your mechanical equipment there, which is.

A

Been moved or it's definitely different, um I don't see any provisions for a rail. Isn't there supposed.

A

To be a safety rail up there, and um what's that going to look like, we have not suggested a safety.

R

Reel there is a there is a a a small parapet on that side, but it's generally on the left side of.

R

This plan, where you see that horizontal piece of equipment, which would be the generator so.

R

There is a bit of a parapet on that side, but not along the there. Yeah he's probably going to need.

A

A railing, then, I think that it's some kind of code thing that you undoubtedly will have to come back.

A

Yeah well, if, if that, the building department brings that to our attention, we'll certainly.

R

Look at the right now the the intent is to have um these heat pumps in that configuration. Those.

R

Vertical uh melon colored rectangles represent the the heat pumps that would uh that have been.

R

Sized to take care of the anticipated loads good mark, what color is the rubber roof going to be.

B

This is all rubber out here. Right, yeah, it's um most of it is already in place. It's a.

B

Okay, it's black yeah yeah, it's been a while, since I've been on it, but.

A

um Any other comments questions before I open that up. I have a left field thing. If you don't mind.

G

um On your drawing or rendering a a12, uh you show the six windows on the vaughn parking.

G

Lot, I think, that's what it's called um side of the building. The old original.

G

Building and it being very much like the first floor windows on the von street side.

G

um And while the sashes themselves move glass and what frames are similar, the uh street side, the old.

G

Street side it seems to have wooden framing to it, looks like it's getting ready to receive some.

G

Sort of metal cladding treatment, but on the on the parking lot side um there that's brick.

G

It's brick below the windows and brick above the windows and just wondering how you reconcile that.

R

Yeah there's there was, there were some conditions that were discovered while they were building that.

R

um Last, it was almost last winter when the building was all tarped and the the the condition.

R

That you see on on the rendering is still the condition we intend to deliver. It's just going.

R

To be delivered a slightly different manner than we had originally intended, but but the uh the the.

R

Trim that you see above these windows, the metal, the the black uh metal on both the the von maul.

R

Side as well as the worth lot side, that's the look that we're going to achieve when we're completed.

G

So they will you're suggesting that they will at some point match. Yes, because that.

G

To me was part of the pitch for absolutely introducing those other windows agreed.

G

Okay, thank you yes mark. um I think some of the uh changes in the windows and things are.

E

Are unfortunate but I think it's the reality it has setting set in you. You have to make.

E

This a constructable usable building, so I can accept that um as for the roof deck, I I very.

E

Much like what I'm saying in terms of how it relates to what was previously approved, the.

E

Massing I yeah we, we have a lot of despair about the flat roofs and this city, and this.

E

Is a great way to counterbalance that, so I'm! I think that this is just a very much a plus.

E

um In a wonderful space and a wonderful use of a of a non-space being a flat membrane,.

E

Group, I also like the idea of the green. um You know it's got some sustainable features to it.

E

um You know so I very much support this and, and I might um like the sloped, the sloped stairway.

E

Exit off the lawn maul area, I would just square that off and and do what nick said and make that.

E

More of a formal, more architecturally appealing space, but all in all, I I think it's a terrific.

E

Addition- and uh you know I wish more of our buildings utilized the roof like that, so I.

E

Have you have my support? Thank you. Thank you and we'll look into the the adjustments to the table.

R

To the skin and the the gabled dormers and make those adjustments, what what's happening in here.

R

Well, what's um it's that's just reflective of this. This roof on the old building is, is not as.

R

Simple, as as one would like it to be, it's not just one flat roof, there's a whole variety of.

R

Different uh pitches that were done uh over the years, so the area that, where that roof deck.

R

Occupies is really spanning um all three there's there's almost a a ridge down the center spine of.

R

This building or a parapet that has a disparity of height, um foot and a half or so approximately.

R

That happens under that and I believe those areas that you're seeing are indicative of different is.

B

The roof deck a foot and a half above the. What's, no we're no part of what's happening or is being.

R

Proposed to to occur is that there's a fair amount of rest structuring, that's going to occur.

R

In order to support that additional load, when you put something like there, you have.

R

To anticipate that, on occasion you will have an assembly used and it will have more bodies.

R

On it and the roof was never intended to carry that kind of load, so we are restructuring that.

R

Portion and that's that's, uh that's a fair amount of a driver of where the limits of.

R

This roof deck occur, they'd happen to align with a column grid that exists in the in the.

R

Original building or aligns with the new staircases that are being built inside all.

R

All of a concrete block and that concrete block provides an armature to support that line for.

R

Instance, where the the handrail is shown, so it's it's it. It's not a an arbitrary decision.

R

To size it that way, it's it's size that way, because it it those loads, can go straight down.

A

Before I open it up, I have a question. Yes, I I too agree that that's an impressive deck.

F

And it looks like a great clubhouse on top. My only concern is the second egress stairwell.

F

That's our historic part of the building on vaughn alley and rising nine and a half feet.

F

I wonder if it if it's going to be too visible, one of your pictures.

F

F

The side view from the vaughn mall, the one that was just in elevation or the perspective.

B

It could be a number, I know I mean a15 shows that.

F

hmm Shows a view from divine mall and you can see the clubhouse, but you it doesn't.

F

Show well that stairwell that I'm worried about since it's almost you know the same height.

F

um I wonder if moving closer to the heat pumps, which you know it was pretty much invisible from.

F

Both sides, you got two buildings on either side of it would really hide it better than the chance.

F

Of it being seen from the most historic front of the building that that well, I I I can tell.

R

You that the the location of that stair in plan is, is pretty fixed um in plan. It's not it's not going.

R

To to move much, uh if at all, as martin suggested, perhaps um uh perhaps squaring the whole thing off.

R

And having having a square uh rectangular feature there, that is, that seems more intrusive to me, but.

B

um I, what about the idea of some sort of trellis on that street facing face of that stairwell.

B

To soften it, could you just remind us of the dimensions for it's nine feet tall and that's 16.

K

Feet back from 16 feet from the from the facade: it would be nice if we had an angle from the street.

A

Going over the facade and 16 feet, you know that well monsters.

G

You're not going to see it from bond street, maybe from hanover but you're going to be okay. You know.

B

Quite a distance away a 5.5: can you get that one five point which is it five point, a 5.5.

F

Point a 5.5, it doesn't show it. This is the word lot yeah now yeah 5.4 is.

F

Why doesn't the stairwell show there that's what worries me a little bit.

R

Well, because it's not it's almost as tall yeah, no, no! No! It's it's! um It's four or.

B

Five feet shorter than this: exactly that's why it's not shown right so remember the the.

R

um It's roughly nine feet three, but it's nine feet three at that furthest portion of it where.

R

You know it does the slope so so that puts that high part further away. From this vantage point,.

R

And this is also about 14 to the ridge uh exactly and that nine and that 10 foot elevation um is.

R

Remember it that's the midpoint of this overbuilt, so so you um you're not you're, not being deceived.

R

There that you, you wouldn't be seeing it in that in that view, in other words, this is it the only.

B

Time you might see it is this exactly yeah, that's why these obscure views or or were selected just.

R

Because there is that chance from this particular vantage point, you do see a little bit more of it.

B

Can you lower it at all that stairway um six inches, the um the nine foot? Three is it's, you know.

R

Maybe inches um I'm not going to be able to uh to make it much more than that with again with a.

R

Little bit of slope on the top and roof structure and insulation and doors, and that sort of thing.

R

I'm restrained from making promises. I can lower it much more than than just inches.

F

And you said it's 16 feet from the edge from the front from the von maul face and how many.

F

Feet is the clubhouse from the edge on the von lock. um If you go, maybe go to the that lap very.

R

Last page nick because that that color, although the I don't know that I have a measuring scale,.

R

On that particular drawing, but um but you can at least the same- oh god, yeah more, but because it's.

F

Taller you're still seeing it one more there we go yeah yeah, that's 16 there yeah, that's 25., yeah,.

R

Easily and and you can see by the the the way- the geometry of the old building it, it flares out so.

R

um I I know that when we were looking at this, the um yeah I think nick is is probably uh close to.

R

uh Being correct on that, it's at least 25 feet, so it's 25 feet and the building is almost 11 foot at.

F

The top no 14 14.- this is at least four nine nine you're, definitely seeing a good chunk of it. Yeah.

B

Yeah, where he still is the other one, is almost 10 feet, but only 16 feet from. I think you're going to.

F

See it well wait! It's 16 from here it's going to be at like 30 for me, yeah, I'm worried about that.

F

Okay, I'm worried about the mall yeah. Okay, I don't think you're gonna see it that this is so narrow.

A

It's a very narrow street yeah. You can't get it. I don't think you're going to get back far enough to.

D

He's going to put ivy on it anyway, don't worry about it! Oh yeah, so the tree covering up well.

R

It's you know, that's not too far-fetched, I mean because the green grids, um as I described them.

R

They are thin, they do offer some that are thicker that can support different types of uh planting.

R

But it wouldn't be far-fetched to you know, to sort of embellish the vertical face of that.

N

Stair with with something that could support uh something that emerges, I love the whole idea of.

F

What you're doing with the deck and the grass- and I mean the green and all that I just don't.

F

Want to see that big stairwell poking up when I'm walking down the mall okay, margo.

K

um I'm supportive of the project. I would second martin's comment about that stare um it it's very.

K

Utilitarian right now- and I think, if you put um some flare on it, it's simple puts a little bit of.

K

Interest for those people who will have a bird's eye view, because you'll have a few neighbors who.

K

Might enjoy looking at something other than a utilitarian box around your stair, but other than.

K

That I think that I can fully support this, so just like a little bit of imagination address there.

A

We could make that a stipulation that he has to come back with a new design for the stairwell.

A

We'd be happy to do that if a administrative, attentive approval for sure okay, so I'm going.

A

To open this up now, all right! Anybody in the public I'd like to speak about this project.

B

Anybody want to speak, that's online.

B

Just raise your hand.

B

Yes, that's a no that's a no okay! So I'm going to close this public hearing and looking for a motion.

I

I'll move to approve, as presented with the stipulations they come back.

I

uh Following approval of the stairwell and margo's also, um I mean reagan's comment about the.

I

The yeah, how about I try reading it? You want me to read what yeah please.

B

The gable end and the elevator roof structure aka the clubhouse- uh uh shall be infield with.

B

Roofing material to match the gable on the main mansard roof structure number. I got that.

B

As number one number two, I had um you either you do this or you don't extend the roof over.

B

The egress door, with some supporting brackets, you didn't say that but and then number three.

B

Okay: number three uh submit for redesign a stairwell stairwell design, a final.

B

Stairwell designer updated revised whatever that um you know it considers.

B

The aesthetic uh impacts of the lawn maul as discussed. Yes, both volume controls, whatever.

E

All right, second, second and purpose of intent, uh conservation enhancement,.

I

Property values and compatibility with design of surrounding properties.

I

Very good, um all those in favor say aye aye, aye opposed.

A

Have your approval, can I request a five minute break? Certainly I was going to suggest it myself.

J

Of suzanne and kimery poldrack is that right, uh that is correct, you're saying it correct kimberly.

S

Pulled right for property located at 28, newcastle avenue, wherein permission is requested to allow.

A

Exterior renovations to an existing structure, new siding windows, doors, new front stairs and new rear.

A

Deck and new construction to an existing structure add a one-story addition over the existing first.

A

Floor footprint, as per plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on.

A

Assessor map 101 has lot 34 and lies within single residence b and the historic district. Could you.

A

Please enter introduce yourself, please, yes, hi, I'm liam mcgovern, I'm the architect representing kim.

S

And aaron welcome. Thank you um so as as you just described, this is a renovation of a 1913.

S

House, it's a modest house, you see there's this sort of the front cube in the original structure.

S

Of the front cube with the porch that has been considerably mucked with over the years, I think.

S

The house was added on to probably sometime in the 70s in the rear, with a fairly large.

S

Rectangular edition, which is, I think, even a little bit bigger than or roughly the same size as the.

S

Existing footprint at the front of the house, the original house and that's just one story with.

S

um A simple gable roof at the back, so what we're proposing is a full renovation of the.

S

Whole house we're going to strip off all the old vinyl windows on the entire house, remove all the.

S

Vinyl and aluminum siding on the original house and at the back, replace it with um replace all.

S

The windows with marvin elevate with simulated divided light with a spacer bar in between so.

S

All all the windows in the whole house will be replaced with those we'll be redoing. All of the.

S

Siding as you see in the images in the elevations and in the perspective, drawing on the cover.

S

um We're going to be opening up the porch, we don't know what it looked like, but we would like.

S

To think it looks something a little bit more like this sort of an early craftsman style uh where the.

S

Stone pillars are actually um mimicking the stone foundation on the original house, so hopefully.

S

We'll have some stone be able to find stone that we can match to the orig to the foundation.

S

um The stairs are new, because the stairs that are existing are really old and dilapidated and.

S

And not terribly nice, um the the window locations on the original house were all.

S

Staying identical with the exception of two windows, um and if you care to.

S

See which windows those are. I can direct you to the elevations um to look at those.

S

um The rear dish edition on the second floor really just follows the footprint of the 1970s.

S

Ish edition um it's just going up one story and then the roof forms that we used mimic and follow.

S

The slopes exactly of the original house, um we've tried to indent a little bit where they, where the.

S

Rear edition and the forward edition connect just so that we can see a separation of the structures.

S

um I thought that helped define the original structure of the house with greater clarity and.

S

Helped separate it from what could otherwise be a rather bulky boxy addition at the back.

S

And I don't know if you would like to go through particular details. You've.

S

All seen the drawing so you may have questions otherwise, unless there's.

S

Any more information you'd like me to present um I'm happy to respond.

A

um The one thing my comment initially is that um this is a lot more complicated than you are making.

A

It seem um okay, there's an awful lot of detail and um I'm wondering why this is not um a work session.

A

No, this is a it isn't over fifty thousand dollars that was no they're not required to.

B

No one's required to do a work session and what they feel comfortable coming forward.

B

With what they've got and we've had instances where we recommend they go to a work session.

B

Because of the complexity or the choices that have been made, so a lot of details around this.

A

um Indentation and some sort of strange siding thing: that's happened over the.

A

First floor- and you know I don't know about the soffits and facey awards and.

A

Window trim the soffits. I don't know what you're referring to exactly, but.

S

This outfits are all everything about. The roof is original at the front of.

S

The house, okay, so it's original yeah. So what is it and the porch roof is original.

S

And the porch at the side actually is very close to what was built in the 70s. It's just.

S

um Made to be a little bit more in accordance with the struct original structure, yeah, I'm.

A

Sure that you know your addition will will be better than what they did in the 70s for sure.

M

Yeah, let's do some questions yeah. Have you done any exploratory sort of uh searching to see what.

M

Might still be underneath the siding is there any original siding collaborates left underneath the.

M

There are some, I believe they were shingles, okay, original um shingles and we did discuss keeping.

S

Those and we would be open to keeping them if, as we did more exploration, we found them to.

S

Be in good shape, yeah. I think that I mean I would love to see that. Certainly, if you have.

D

Whatever you find from the house, that is part of its original design, and I would certainly love to.

D

See that being restored, rather than a new, citing arrangement um being put on here so like the this.

D

Vertical siding thing: that's happening between the upper and lower stories um is something.

D

That I don't think I've ever seen in our historic district. So I I wouldn't want to see that, because.

D

It just seems very out of place, so I think you know the simpler, whatever the original sort of.

D

Scheme is, I think, would be what I'd love to see I would love to. I would hope that, maybe, even as.

D

You're peeling away the porch, you might find some of the oh, I don't think so! No is it totally. I.

S

No, I mean you can. If you look at the images, it's it's pretty much vinyl windows all around the.

S

Perimeter sure I was just one, you know as you peel it away. Any is any of the structure gonna.

D

Help you understand what it might have looked like. Originally, um that sort of thing right.

D

um And you know like the introduction of sort of stone pillars there. I would think.

D

That this building, probably just had very simple.

D

um Columns, it does have a pebblestone or a beach riverstone foundation to it and that's sort of.

G

You can see where she takes off of that. This is this: drawing that they've produces a very solid.

G

Arts and crafts sort of uh representation. uh It's it's a little bit a little foreign for newcastle.

M

Ave right, I think, you're correct, and I I think I mean I would almost the surrounding that sort of.

D

Area is a little bit more um uh colonial revival, foursquare type, you know classical revival, rather.

D

Than the craftsman, which seems is more, it happened more on the west end of portsmouth, um so I would.

D

Although yeah, if you roll back just a bit right across a public walkway to this building, just to.

G

The left of it as we look at it from the street we've done very similar reinterpretation of a.

G

Very similar house right there that has many of the same features. uh This is underground.

G

Or below ground parking and the decks reaching off the back, and it's it's a in a sense. It's a.

G

Derivative house other than I think what at least my point in this thing is, is the uh vertical board.

G

Siding, I think that the introduction of a third kind of siding, while many of our arts and crafts.

G

Building in portsmouth have or even a little bit earlier, buildings have sometimes two different.

G

Kinds of siding, cloudboard and shingles above sometimes shingles with those old-fashioned.

G

Skirts on them, it's not uncommon to see this in some parts of the newer parts of town, but.

G

I think the third element, particularly with the board and baton, is kind of a departure, yeah yeah.

D

Otherwise I mean, I think, that redoing this peeling everything off and and giving it.

D

New life is, is great. I have no problem with the um massing of the addition. I don't know.

D

If anybody else has ideas on that, but you know just looking at that simply um the the.

D

Peak does the does that rear roof need to be quite so tall, or is that just part.

D

Of the rendering that makes it look very well, that is literally just if you take.

S

The same pitches, and and and put them together, that's just where they meet.

A

Anyone else martin uh yeah, I um some of the comments I agree with. I I think there's a.

E

Lot to like here, I you know, I think it's very appealing what you're doing uh by restoring.

E

This house, uh I too, would not go for the board and baton. I just don't think you need.

E

It I I think you have enough going on you're, introducing some elements that are they're new.

E

um I could live with that. um I I almost see like a fourth when you look at the glue between the.

E

Two prominent roofs, so that's almost like a fourth siding. um I would so. I would eliminate.

E

The board and baton I do like the mass saying I like the fact that compositionally they they.

E

Complement themselves each other, and so [music] um I do wish this was a a uh a work session.

E

um Because I think that it's a lot to take in uh in a few minutes and and really uh get behind. But.

E

um Like I said, there's a lot of good things with this. I just think there are a few things that.

E

Could be adjusted? Thank you.

S

um I would just like to point out that really the only if you go back to that elevation actually.

S

Nick because that's helpful, the only new part of that is literally that right there, that is being.

S

Circled right now, the rest of it is all existing. The only thing that we're doing is changing out.

S

Windows on the section below, which is the the 70s edition. Otherwise, everything short of the sighting.

S

And I agree with some of your comments about the sighting and deciding and I think they're helpful.

S

um Otherwise, everything if you'd go to the left hand side is all original, with the exception of.

S

The siding and the color, um I'm sorry is isn't the door moving. If I, when I walked around the.

S

House, yes, it seemed to me the door is moving to the left, yep yep and actually those were the two.

S

There were two windows and the door that I would wanted to point out that are the things changing.

S

um The door is moving to the left and the window to the left of it is new and the.

S

Window above it is shifting about a foot. Those are the only changes happening to.

S

The exterior of the original house, besides the you know, cleaning up the porch and um chimney.

G

That's that's again, part of the 70s edition that that chimney was built in the 70s nope yeah. So.

K

One of my questions was: why are you leaving the bottom part of it and subsuming the upper part? Is.

K

There, a structural reason you need to keep that um well, they're, gonna, they're, gonna, use it and put a.

S

Gas insert on the inside um so they're going to vent out through the back and then it becomes a.

S

Dilemma: do you build another 10 feet of chimney to get it above? The second story edition or then.

S

Or do you bring it down and cap it? Okay, so we'll have a a mushroom. The lack of a better word vent.

A

Gas vent coming out the back of the chimney. Yes through the bricks, yes at the rear of the house,.

A

Well, I I'm just going to continue on with um the thought that um we don't see any details.

A

For the facial boards, you're saying that they are original on the house.

A

um I noticed the house says: excuse me, has gutters all the way around it.

A

So that's something else: we need to know that you are, if you're putting flat boards facial with.

A

um Gutters on it- and um that's almost one thing, because that k style gutter does almost look.

A

Like a crown molding in a way, but um I'm not sure we have details on the porch that goes.

A

You know the type rails etc. I don't know there's an awful lot here.

A

I'm kind of looking for the pleasure of the board, yes rich, ah thank you and thank you for.

I

This presentation, um but I kind of agree with the consensus that there are a lot of details missing.

N

um Like that, then you just mentioned coming out of the chimney we would have known unless we.

I

Just mentioned it, um the materials and stuff like that all those kind of details are are important.

I

um And I would want to get this right for you in I do like what you're doing. I think it would.

I

Be a great improvement. um You know this is a very prominence right on that path that I know.

I

A lot of people enjoy in newcastle have their um but yeah. I just don't. I just don't know if this.

I

Is a complete application with all the details that we would like? um That's just my right now.

A

Well, other people on the board: yes, martin, I I would just add that not only that it's.

E

Material selections and things like that we would be looking for um that would be.

E

Part of a a public hearing application, so this is a huge transformation of this home.

E

um I know you're advocating strong uh to get approval time, but I just I'm thinking that.

E

And we should probably look at a little further information before we commit sure. Let me just.

S

Be specific I mean because I I have specified um the railing materials, the siding materials which.

S

I understand you are recommending some changes to as well as roofing materials.

S

um And windows, I'm just curious what material information might be missing. Mahogany and wood.

S

Balusters and rail yep um well, you do have, or on some of these painted cedar or hardy, playing.

K

In some cases you have pvc or painted um mdo, so, okay, you have options. You've presented to us. Do.

K

You want us to tell you what we want. I would very much like to hear your preferences yep.

K

um So I would say cedar um and I'm not sure why you would go with mdo or or panel, but I'm not a.

K

Building expert somebody else who is who might refine, um but we do prefer to have.

K

Natural sighting, wherever possible in the district, okay good, I would think we need.

E

Doors windows: you have window, you have a window schedule, yes, roofing material. I have no problem.

E

With the mdo, what kind of garage doors, what kind of uh are you using a cultured stone.

E

um The railings, all these little things that are, should be part of a final application.

E

Did I miss anything? No, I mean people often just copy the spec sheets and attach them.

D

Just so that we see what they are and sure circle, the color or whatever it is yep.

A

Above these doors on the back deck, where the chimney is.

S

A trellis of some sort.

S

A shading device, no a12 yeah right here, yeah. What is that? Some sort of pergola-like material.

G

A cedar cedar, pergola trellis, if you will not very deep right. No, no! It's the depth of the chimney.

A

Okay, so so we do need more details, yeah no, I mean I think overall, this is everybody thinks this is.

D

Great, we just need some more details, and maybe um so we can continue this to next month and if.

D

You want to come back with um maybe a different rendering of the of the siding sure and just some.

D

More of those um details calling out specifically, you know, even I I know john, is concerned about the.

D

The soffits and eve details, and even just calling out you know to match the new stuff is going to.

D

Match the original um uh decking material, the front porch, and so I assume there'll, be a ceiling.

A

In that porch ceiling material ceiling material for that front, porch, yeah yep- you probably should.

G

Also select a replacement uh brick for the main, the chimney in the main block of the house, because.

G

It's not going to survive being removed. You lose it! Oh right! Yes, yes, you know it's junk. Yep yep.

A

Okay, so we continue this we're going to continue. Yes, I move to continue this to next month.

A

Second, all those in favor say um all right. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

A

I got the name right.

A

All right, so this is petition of ryan and karen baker, owners for property located at 44, gardner.

A

Street wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure in large.

A

Existing sun room with walkout deck space, above as for plans on file in the planning department, said.

A

Property is shown on assessor map 103. It's lot, 42 lies within general residence b and historic.

A

Districts, mr chairman, I have to recuse myself. I got in a buttered notice on this. Certainly.

A

All righty, uh please introduce yourself uh good evening, mr chairman and members of the board, my.

T

Name is ryan baker, I'm the new homeowner of 44 gardner street yeah. Congratulations. Thank you.

T

um I'll go into some detail, uh my wife and I uh karen purchased the property five months ago in.

T

August of 2022., uh this application probably looks familiar to some of you, because the project was.

T

Approved by the zba and the htc in april of 2020., unfortunately, the approval expired earlier. This.

T

Year, which was april of 2022., uh that being said, we're resubmitting the application to construct a.

T

Sunroom for a slash four season, porch, which will replace the existing porch and this new sun room.

T

Will provide rear access from the yard and the driveway. We have made some changes to the plan.

T

So that we can make the most of this edition slash investment and the changes that I want.

T

To highlight are the roof deck? On top of the sunroom placement of the exterior stairs, which.

T

Have been moved over to the left, instead of being on the right hand, side to enter the back.

T

And a skylight on the third floor in the packet that was submitted, I have also included some.

T

Pictures of other porches roof decks within a few blocks of our home. We feel like this is.

T

A great use of space and will give us access from our primary bedroom on the second floor.

T

In addition to the roof deck we have, we would also like to install a skylight on the third floor. The.

T

Skylight would add a tremendous amount of light because the sun comes up in that direction. To.

T

The living area- and I hope you'll, approve this change as well. um I want to point out that when.

T

I look out my third floor bathroom, which faces um towards saunders fish market. I can count about 13.

T

Skylights, that's not including the two that are currently on our garage, so it I believe.

T

It would fit in well with the neighborhood all that being said, I'd be happy to answer.

T

Any questions that the board may have and would dive into any of the questions about the design.

A

I'm still getting the lay of the land here so sure I'm I'll just start with. I can't quite.

K

Identify where the skylight is um it is on. So it's on the upper right hand, side and in that picture,.

T

um If you look, you can see the sloped area on the left and then on the right. You can see the.

T

Skylight, which would be in line in line with the windows below it all right, got it, and that room is.

T

um You know it's fairly steep pitch. Well, it's not not that steep, but it's it. It has one window in.

T

The room and then a little porthole that looks straight out towards the you know, towards the.

T

River and it's it's pretty dark and I think it'll make a dramatic change to that room and.

T

And certainly, you know be able to actually see in that direction as well would be useful. Okay,.

A

Mr reagan, from what I can remember from this project a couple years ago, really everything.

D

Is happening in the back you're not doing much at all to the front of the house? Yes, so most people.

D

Can see it so um yeah, I remember seeing those two little views in the back, um but I mean I don't see.

D

Much difference from the previously approved design that would make um that, would you know.

D

Gives me any pause, um you know, I think the roof deck you're um proposing to use.

D

Just wood railings right yeah: I can't find them yeah. We would keep.

T

Cedar siding same materials that are on the house currently.

T

um And if you look at the existing on the left hand, side of that picture, you'll see there's.

T

A window there that would change to a door to come out on the roof deck, and that was is the.

T

The primary bedroom right there and I always look out that window and say boy: wouldn't it be nice to.

T

Walk out here, and I think it's a really good use of space as opposed to just kind of a you know, a.

T

Roof, that's pitched there I'd love to be able to go out and sit out there and actually looks.

T

Towards the wentworth gardener, which you know half the year, there's not even anybody there so.

D

An improve improve in line with you know the general outline of the house.

A

Well, we are losing and there again it's we are losing a porch post. We are you.

A

Know we're we're losing the original roof of the porch. That's what it is.

A

Obviously, that deck that it sits on is new. I think.

T

So the porch post um that post right there on the left, that's existing the.

T

Porch actually extends further out, and the porch post supports the roof above.

T

And I don't even know if there's anything under the process, so it needs help like the porch that.

T

Those stairs when we bought the house probably three weeks into it, the stairs that attached to.

T

The current porch just disconnected and it just dropped, so it was a good welcome home present.

T

When I started to jack it up and tried to like reconnect it, so the porch needs a replacement.

T

No matter what happens? No, I totally agree, I'm just mentioning you know this. One thing.

T

That is for sure, a historic component of the house. Obviously, that porch was underneath, was.

A

Ill-Constructed and you know not properly supported.

A

Probably done on a sly on a weekend or something most likely most likely.

A

Should have seen what was underneath it uh well, I haven't seen that sort of stuff yeah.

E

I would just uh part of my concern is that the rail that makes your roof deck now.

E

It looks like it's only about 28 inches 30 inches high. I don't think that's kind of.

E

Yeah code acceptable rail, um so you might look at that. um We're kind of.

E

You know we're kind of missing some details here that that we were just.

E

Talking about with the last application, um those details being rails, um you know um being.

E

Stair rails decking things like that, so um I would like to see some of that.

E

I would think I mean I can. I can easily put that in the only I took the existing the plan that was.

T

Provided to me from the homeowners- and I just modified the basically the top and the stairs.

T

So I it's exactly as was presented before and all the materials and there's a you know everything.

T

That I had, I can easily change the height to make sure that that's to code. Let me look again. I mean.

F

Windows there yeah, I don't see any rare rail details. I I think the porch is a.

E

New uh something you're modified from the last approval, the what I think, maybe in.

K

Pasting, you might have left a few things behind that anne whitney would have included with her.

K

Original package, like the details of the the materials and the heights of the balustrates and.

K

So on so it's probably in your package somewhere potential, I am yeah and would have included that.

E

It's your fault. If she didn't, oh, I don't remember them to be caught again. I just remember this one.

T

So it says painted wood rails and posts. That's all. I remember, and I definitely kept that so I knew.

A

You guys that was important. That's rather vague yeah, you know, so uh uh we need details on that.

A

um There again the porch decking um the door, the door's in there, oh, the door is in there. Excuse me.

A

Trim around the windows, new windows- that's probably about it, yeah windows.

T

Are there I would match exactly what decking material around the windows that we have now.

B

The decking and railing system details shall be submitted for administrative approval. Yes,.

A

Okay, so you'll have to bring those details back just for the decking and rally okay.

D

I think we can stipulate that the do new construction trim window.

D

Trim everything matches what is existing got it.

A

This just doesn't look like an anne whitney drawing it's not her. Writing there.

A

But all right, okay! So anybody in the public like to speak on this proposal.

B

Raise your hand if you'd like to speak.

U

Okay, close the public hearing and look for a motion.

D

I move that we approve this application, as presented with.

D

um The following stipulations: two stipulations that the decking and railing system details.

B

Be submitted for administrative approval and number two that the new construction.

B

Trim shall match existing new construction. What new window trim yeah construction window trim well.

D

Window and door window and door, you know for the the new addition we have a second second, all right.

D

um This um has conservation and enhancement of property values.

D

And um has compatibility of design with surrounding properties.

A

All right, so uh everybody who's in favor of this ai hi hi opposed.

A

I have your permission with knowing the fact that you do have to bring these couple details back to.

A

Nick, it sounds great all right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you have a good evening.

B

You already announced that 65 washington is not, or is it going to continue yeah, so we.

B

Only have one left to work session put announce that, where is it is.

B

Yeah, strawberry banks, okay,.

A

um So I'm going to need a request to postpone a petition. A strawberry bank incorporated owner.

A

For property located at 65, washington street still moved to the next meeting.

A

Second february, all those in favor hi opposed, and then we have a work session requested by.

A

Christopher daniel friend owner for property, located at 37 prospect street where permission.

A

Is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure, add separate first and.

A

Second, floor additions as per plans on file in the planning department, said: property is shown.

A

On the assessor map 141 as lot 16 lies within the general residence, a in historic district.

A

I will be recusing myself all right. I have some additional we're going to come down there.

B

Hang on we're going to come down here, yeah and you can sit there. Oh, we all sit together. Yeah.

V

I'm well thank you.

V

I don't have copies for all. These are some details on materials, doors and windows.

K

Oh yeah yeah: well, uh I'm dan dan freunds.

V

Yeah, I'm dan freund owner resident at 37 prospect street I've owned the property for the last 16.

V

Years and it has been my dream to enhance the property ever since I took ownership of it, so.

V

um This is uh this is perhaps my my uh not my lifelong dream, but certainly my dream for.

V

Continuing to reside here in portsmouth, when you wish upon a star makes no difference who we are.

A

um Your dreams will come true. Well, let's figure out how to get to yes. Here we go.

V

uh So uh my uh my plan is to uh the existing structures need replacement. uh The existing.

V

Carports uh is in a very run down uh condition and needs replacement, and my proposal is to create a.

V

uh uh Greater flow between the existing barn and the house by bumping out the structure between.

V

By about five feet, so adding footprint of about five feet inside the yard uh and adding about.

V

10 feet of second story uh to the extension uh from the barn which would accommodate a.

V

Stairwell as well as um uh second floor bathroom.

K

Before we ask questions about that, are you making any changes of grades replacements.

K

Repairs to any of the other parts of the buildings, or are we just talking about.

K

The new construction- uh we are just talking about the space between the.

V

um The existing kitchen and the barn and uh the I have a uh proposed, a shed dormer, which would.

V

Extend over a uh a third of the existing barn, okay, you're good, your property is very convoluted.

K

So we put some vocabulary down the structure in the back that you're putting the dormer in you.

K

Call that the barn- yes, okay and then right in front of that is a single story. Original garage.

K

Perhaps it's uh not an original garage, but it is. uh I refer to it as a garage extension. It's.

V

Got a a an existing garage door and really doesn't serve much purpose other than a shelter. And it is.

V

Very convoluted, so just just so, we all know what we're talking about. So they have the barn and then.

K

In front of that is a single story garage and then in front of that is your carport shed roof.

V

So from the uh from the barn moving forward to the street, there's the garage extension.

V

There's the carport and then between the uh that garage extension and the house is a mud room.

V

And so that will be included as well. That will be pushed out to accommodate the added footprint.

K

And the the house proper is a rectangle onto which, in the back was added a [ __ ] like a shed edition.

K

Almost yes and then the area you're talking about spans between the back of that addition and the.

K

Garage, correct, okay, and so it's really that space, that's spanning between the shed edition and the.

K

Garage and the area over the garage and a little bit of the barn coming forward. That's the subject.

K

Area right, that's the subject area as well as replacement of the the carport the cardboard and.

K

The cardboard is literally going to be the exact same shape and size. Yes, um great. Did that make.

K

Sense to everybody, because yeah it's very kind of yes, thank you and kind of weird, okay. Okay, so we.

A

Can all go home now? I think it just made some of some of the render some of the automatics.

K

Are a little bit difficult to understand? Yes, and I understand that yes, I mean yeah.

V

Yeah uh and the only difference with what I handed out today was uh um on the plan that.

V

I originally submitted the barn, looked like it had clappers, uh but I want to retain the uh the shakes.

V

So that was really the only change you have another handout. uh I this is.

K

So um when I'm trying to envision what what I saw on the property, the the barn part makes complete.

K

Sense to me that you have a standard, barn you're, putting a little dormer in it. The dormer starts it.

K

Doesn't run the full length, it starts a good way towards the street. Yes and then you're extending.

K

The barn towards the street does that extension cover completely the existing one-story garage or.

K

Is it a little bit shy? I am trying to keep it shy uh just to allow for some more balance between.

V

The new barn structure and the existing house, so that they're not so close together and and that.

K

And that plane is running this way if you're as you're, looking at it from the street. Okay.

K

And when you, when you come this way along the back side of the house over that that sort of open area.

K

How does it meet with this plane? um I'm I'm I'm having trouble understanding yeah, but that's.

V

That's I'm willing to admit that so um so, looking from the the backyard okay looking for describe it.

K

To us, uh so uh the uh the shed dormer will face the yard and uh the connection between the house.

V

And the the barn, what I'm referring to is the mud room will face the yard as well double open doors.

V

uh And will allow flow into the backyard, because, right now there is no flow into the backyard.

V

There's no um there's a door, but it is um it just doesn't it it doesn't flow ed in oh, flew it up.

K

So, if double doors, those are the proposed french doors in in. On the back of my.

V

Proposed doors are in the packet that I um I just handed out: uh three-quarter glass.

V

um Similar to what is in the new construction at the beginning of prospect, street.

A

This thing, actually, this connector mud room would be with the doors and it actually projects out.

A

Further than the small shed roofed edition that you have on the back of your house now it looks.

A

Like it, projects outwards about four or five feet correct, and that would allow that room.

V

To catch winter, sun uh as right now, there's no winter sun being caught in that room, and there is.

V

um It's a an unfortunate corner inside there that attracts rot, yeah, I'm sure.

A

One thing I would be careful of is the pitch of that roof because you've all of a sudden.

A

Made this this section go out further four or five feet further, um so the roof will be.

A

Become flatter so that it can sit underneath the the window. You know up on the second floor of it.

A

Might or might not be a problem I don't know.

K

Yes, certainly.

K

Imagining is the backyard interior corner.

K

Where the two structures come together is that that is um laid out.

D

The very last page yeah, that is.

J

Right, we know that yeah. I think I have two two and two three. I think um this view uh that we.

V

See here uh it didn't, it apparently didn't make it into my uh my last minute, printing.

V

So this view uh the bottom is the view from the yard looking in to uh it doesn't uh depict the.

V

um The double door from the mud room, but that too, would be visible from this angle.

K

So we we can see the the side of the barn from the backyard and we can see the back of the house from.

K

The backyard and I'm having to because of the way your renderings work, where one is whited out in.

K

One and the other is wired it out in the other, I'm having a hard time figuring out how those grooves.

K

Meet with each other, and maybe john because he's a builder has figured it out in his head.

K

But I'm having a hard time yeah, that is a that, is a a significant problem that I am.

V

Trying to address because right now there are three competing roof lines between the garage.

V

Extension, the uh the carport and the mud room roof, and so that too is a great big.

V

Mess- and that is also now uh I- I have uh uh proposed a second floor- walkout from the barn.

V

um Why not uh why? Why not walk out onto what uh on on.

V

Onto a a roof deck, but on top of the mud room or on top or directly in front of the the barn.

V

Which would not isn't that? Where the carport is, the carports uh goes from further forward than.

G

That correct so there's a little bit of a space. There there's a little bit of a space uh and.

V

um I, where, where the issue arises with that roof line, is where the carport extends beyond the house.

V

Between the house and the garage extension, and so it rises higher than the other roof lines, and I.

V

Apologize for not having an image to to show well, I think we really need this sort of should go 3d.

G

Photographs and a sidewalk yeah, I think, would be the easiest just so we understand each other yeah.

A

um Yeah nick has found something here that if we all turn around.

A

And I I can provide video walk through or or what have you as well.

V

um We would probably all feel more comfortable if we could stand with the drawings in our hands.

G

In their backyard, okay, I mean not trying to get pushy, but that would resolve like that. You know.

Q

Like that thing, when you get your picture tube on that's what will happen very efficient yeah.

G

um Can I ask what the purpose of the program is? I.

G

You can open a hotel. What are we trying to do.

V

um I'm trying to enhance the the property to bring it in line with the development in.

V

The neighborhood I have aging parents and I would like the option to have space for them.

V

And that is the intent of so you want to bring other families to dwell in this building with.

G

You uh I want the option, uh certainly if that becomes a necessity for my family.

I

To kind of an edu okay: no, that wouldn't be the adu, the difference between an adu and what was.

B

Just described yeah you could have as many blood related relatives living in your single family.

B

Home there's no restriction on that, an in-law apartment which we don't have, but you hear that.

B

Term in other cities and towns, it's essentially a separate dwelling unit with an unlocked door.

B

Between the two units, the two kitchens right he's not proposing two kitchens in portsmouth. If you.

B

Have two kitchens you either need a two family or you need an adu, and an adu can be rented to.

B

Anybody that's the difference between navy, you and an in-law. It doesn't have to be a relative.

B

So you're not proposing either of those, but his parents could live with him in a single.

B

Family house and share the kitchen see if he wants to build two kitchens. He has to do the.

B

Adu so then, let's explore that uh what? What is the nature of an adu? If you know.

V

I I wish to to have a bathroom because that second floor, that's the kitchen, the kitchen.

V

What are limitations on having an accessory dwelling unit? We'd have to look at the code.

B

For this lot- and I can't tell you sitting here- but we can look at that- okay, but that again is.

B

Just allowing you to get the second kitchen, which is not a small thing. I get it it's nice to have.

B

That, whether they're in-laws or not, uh and and and that would be desirable to me to have say you know.

V

uh uh The way that I'm thinking through adding plumbing into that structure would allow for say.

V

uh A sink in that shed dormer, uh which would give me the option, and you know to be fair. This is.

V

This this is the development in that neighborhood uh leaves me far behind in the the value of of my.

V

Property uh because it is in such a need of repair and because um those elements are frankly present.

V

In other structures, other other dwellings in that neighborhood, so you just have to look at the code.

B

These folks, don't do that. So the only thing that you will be talking to me about is whether what.

B

Do you need to do to put a second kitchen in the building you can have as many bathrooms as.

B

You want as many bedrooms as you want storage rooms. You can do that as a single family, home.

B

Which you have today, if you want to reprogram it or reposition it, to have a second dwelling unit.

B

Then we've got to look at the code, but it won't matter. We don't care about what you do on the.

D

Inside yeah yeah I mean we may personally care, but we don't it's not in our purview.

A

Hats up above the garage come on, but when I was you know, I'm going to make the comments.

K

I'm going to make without understanding your resources so yeah. If I suggested taj mahal.

K

um I don't mean to do that, but it seems to me that if I own this property I would and.

K

I would looking at what happened around and I wanted to get a little more space.

K

I think I would think a little bit bigger and put a little more in, even if it's a little bit of a.

K

Reach to achieve what I think you say you want so, for example, I get rid of the carport completely.

K

And and do something bigger with the barn and the and the little garage thing get rid of the little.

K

Garage thing completely pull the barn forward and if you want to have a place to put your car.

K

To keep it out of the weather, which it seems, that's why you want to keep the carport give.

K

Yourself a little one stall garage in the front, but but that way you're kind of cleaning up the.

K

Lines you'll make it easier to bring the two structures together, it'll put and I'm not an.

K

Architecture, but I think in the back corner, you'd have more options. If you had more substantial.

K

Structures meeting each other as opposed to sort of like little hodgepodge things yeah.

K

um You know you could maybe even infill a little bit in that corner. You could get a beautiful sun.

K

Room, so I think there are lots of things that you could do with the property if you decided to.

K

Have perhaps get rid of some of the property or some of the old buildings? And I don't think the.

K

Carport and the one-car garage are so historic that we're going to have a hard time with that.

K

I mean I'm, not I'm not. This is a work session, so I'm just spitballing here and then I think.

K

Just doing some of the reciting and refinishing and cleaning up corner boards and putting a rail.

K

Back because I know your fence in the front has come down, I think just those sort of basic block.

K

And tackle things will make a huge difference in the value appearance and the comfort of your home.

K

But that's my personal feeling and my priorities, which are not yours and I'm not trying to impose.

K

Them on you, I'm just giving you some ideas, yeah and I I appreciate the ideation on it. um I am.

V

I'm I'm comfortable with the vision that I I have and it has taken me quite.

V

Quite some time to uh warm to the idea of adding stairs in the front section of the barn and.

V

Forego trying to work stairs into the existing structure, which would require cutting out beams.

V

And- and I just don't want to do that um and and primarily adding stairs is the reason for for.

V

Pushing pulling the the roof line of the existing barn forward is to accommodate those stairs.

V

um I, um and and like I said this has been a a 16-year dream of mine.

V

And coming to uh even to this table is a significant step for me and.

V

I I feel that that the you know my intent here tonight was to not come up for an approval.

V

But to uh to really get to take get my notes to understand what I need to do to um to satisfy your.

V

Concerns uh and to still hold some integrity with that that house that structure, because it's it's a.

V

Beautiful frame it's a 230 year old frame and granted somebody ripped out all the masonry and.

V

Somebody cut off a corner post at some point, but you know that's that's long. In the past.

V

um But the the structure as it is, is rather appealing and it will it'll be a big project.

V

For me, beyond um uh it, it will be a labor of love and sweat and and and my own equity put.

A

Into it turned into be a big project. Are you also looking at extending the barn forward? Is.

A

um A non-conforming how's that going to work on the property line yeah. No, it's going to need.

B

Variances you're going to need variances, yes, and I understand extending a non-conforming structure.

A

As well as actually putting the dormer on it too and it's uh the dormer is uh on the inside.

V

Of uh of the lot line, it's uh sits under 10 feet. If that probably isn't, it is uh probably.

B

Over time it's over 10. yeah, but you'll need it for the projecting elements coming forward is.

K

The tree yours or your neighbors, uh the tree is my neighbors uh and we share the cost and maintenance.

K

I wondered how you were going to work. The was it. The extension of the barn forward was gonna.

K

Run into the tree we have, uh we have work scheduled on that that um that tree.

A

Yeah frequently when the trees are that close to the project, you can.

A

Obviously, you'll be cutting through a lot of roots.

A

um Things happened is that a silver maple.

V

uh I believe it is a norwegian, so it's invasive you're going to lose that tree anyway.

B

um They'll tell you whatever it is: yeah.

A

Any other comments or any other plans for themselves. I've done some things.

G

um And you obviously you're not me uh and that's a great thing for you particularly.

G

um But and he's done some things, but uh I even some of my well-heeled clients. I.

G

Steered away from trying to rehab barns uh for the you know that shoveling.

G

Money into the whole sort of thing um it seems, like you have we'll say, a building of made of.

G

Or site, with seven different elements on it now and you're, proposing to put two more on.

G

To capture some space in a barn that more than likely doesn't have much of a foundation no.

G

Frost proofing whatsoever, it wouldn't pass a blower door test to save its soul and.

G

And you're doing this for the hope of making your property as.

G

Prosperous looking as your neighbors seems like a funny way to do it, it.

G

Seems like a much simpler plan that was much more straightforward, that utilized.

G

New materials, all the way through would be a lot easier to accomplish for somebody that.

H

Has been thinking about doing something for 16 years it just that's why I asked what your.

G

Program was about how, in inherently this, these particular spaces represented themselves in your.

G

Program, you never once said anything about how precious the barn was or george washington slept.

G

There or any of those things it's just space to you, that's on the property line. If it's only.

G

Advantages that it's on the property line and then grandfathered that I don't know if that's a great.

G

Thing either yeah um and we haven't mentioned whether it is indeed a colonial barn, or is it.

A

This uh is it made of. Is it stud construction too much? It is uh hand-hewn timber frame. It is yes.

A

I can see what david.

K

Because sometimes getting someone like david to to look at how something is constructed.

K

um He might have some some insights for you um on how some things can be done. I mean john.

K

What do you think? um What I'm thinking is that um he should go to another board? First.

A

Or we get too wrapped up designing this for them and I'm going to jump in and say I think you need.

B

To do a site visit before you do that, because it may be based on what I'm hearing and what.

B

I'm seeing the solution may be not to touch that thing which would negate the need to go and get.

B

A variance uh so I think, it'd be worth putting eyes on that and human barn yeah, because it may.

B

Be if you're trying to expand this is just me. uh I can see a rear addition on that house and.

B

A removal of that single story shed on the back of the house and a two-story form two and a half.

B

Story form coming in not necessarily in the middle more like an l and you get two and a half stories.

B

Of new construction tucked in the back create this courtyard with your little barn, no variances.

B

And plenty of space and I'm not understanding so I'm looking look up here.

B

If you I'm going to point, I'm sure don't touch the screen. Remove this.

P

Built and did it build an addition here, see it into the house, your tables on the end, there's a.

P

Ridge, there's your new l two and a half stories. If that's what the house is two stories anyway,.

P

Leave that alone take this off. Take that down got a courtyard here that, if that's, what someone would.

B

Have done in my mind a hundred years ago and 50, and now, if you want to make that bigger, I mean if.

D

Potentially, you've gone over a lot of these differences.

A

I don't know if your architect has given you some other ideas. All the plans have.

V

Have relied on making use of existing structure as much as possible and making use of of.

V

um Of the barn is uh it it, I mean.

V

Admittedly, if you come and do a site visit, I hope you'll overlook the uh the clutter of the barn.

V

But making that space more useful, more functional um and uh and and serving the the long-term value.

V

Of of the property is what I'm, after uh we sit here and do this month after month of those very.

G

Same reasons and and pardon me, but I think all of us uh believe that we're doing it for a good.

G

Reason um and I think we'd all love to go and look at it and share for a moment. Your problem.

G

uh And maybe put some fresh eyes on it with a little bit of experience, yeah.

G

Yeah, I I we'd be loved to do it. Okay, love to do it yeah! I. I have no problem.

V

With you and the clutter, you know, I mean that's what uh yeah I love clark.

V

I mean to solve that problem. Okay, I just want to um well david both david, and I have a lot.

A

Of experience, david has more experience with colonial structures, okay, but I've also worked.

A

On a lot of them and one problem with the barn, as it sits all by itself on its own little foundation,.

A

Which is probably just some rocks and things like here, but basically the whole post and beam.

A

Structure why it's still standing is because it moves it can move and if you have frost come in.

A

Little thing bumps up and the floor is higher and maybe it'll go back down again. Well it it.

V

Sits on a slab, it's on a slab, it looks like it's on it's on a slab and and someone at some points.

V

Just forget that, but still not four feet deep. No, but so then you go and put a frame structure.

A

On the front of it with modern construction, and then you want to put a dormer on top of that and.

A

Then you want to have a kitchen: that's going to be halfway, you know in between two worlds,.

A

Just a lot of trouble, a lot of trouble there. Oh okay, let's go see it yeah the.

K

Left side of the main house do you know when it was built.

V

um I don't know when that was built. Would that be useful to know in terms of thinking about.

K

Taking it off it's on the left hand, side it's on concrete block, okay, so it seems relatively.

G

In in well I'm old in this century, I know is that information out in in here or how? How do you know.

V

That it's on concrete blocks it is you go look at it. uh You sign away your right to kick me off your.

G

Property when you put your application in, I I'm just I'm curious. I walked your property because.

V

um I'm sorry, I walked to the property, okay yeah, um because um the um the foundation work uh as.

V

You proposed it would um the the budget necessary for for uh doing that. I never even contemplated.

V

That type of addition to the property for got to be easier than what you're contemplating.

B

Really, I would if you could get bob to meet us there, your architect and be around yeah right.

V

um Bob uh yeah: it's that's! Where he's got adaptism.

V

um When would you like to.

V

What are you guys, thinking thinking of daylight, it's going to be daytime uh in.

B

Most of the people work in the next two weeks. Do we all need to go, I'm gone well? Does anybody.

B

I mean: can we do it monday through friday? During the day, I was just going to say that.

I

I think christian adams and chair wyckoff are you know, certainly would I could go during the.

V

Day perfect, preferably not between two and three on wednesdays and thursdays,.

V

In the morning, foreign.

I

Make it more efficient help you save money time I mean you are admittedly,.

V

Scaring me but yeah, but but I quickly get over, that you've been thinking all.

G

This time about how you're going to start- and we are sitting here thinking how you're going to end well and and and they're, two different things yeah.

G

I started a five-year project, one time I finished it yet yeah. I did twice actually.

G

But that's another story: it took a long time um yeah. You know I I'm. uh This is a a huge.

V

uh Leap for me uh even taking on this project and my my ultimate goal, my. How did you phrase it.

V

um My my purpose for this is to add value to that property, so that I have something that I can.

V

um Hand to to my kids, something that will allow all of us to continue to to stay.

V

In this city, and to enjoy the fact that we're lucky enough to to live here, because I do feel.

V

Lucky to have that opportunity to be able to give that opportunity to them so.

V

um I am not so set in uh in my ways that I I can't think differently. um So whenever we can.

V

Schedule that that site walk I'm I'm happy to do that and we'll do it sooner. Yeah and again it's.

F

A great historic house, the barn sounds like it's going to be pretty historic too. So you know I'd.

G

Love to be able to retain that, it's the street's, a nice street to be on to do something like this.

G

I I think you've got all of the pieces and this thing nailed together. It just be careful of how.

D

Much you allow us to design your product yeah. Well, uh you know I I do still hold that uh that.

V

If we have a vision using using that barn of of having it at least uh airtight and and making it.

V

A usable space because it has so much potential for the types of uses that I want to use it.

V

um Studio playhouse, exactly those things um and uh and having it be comfortable, is important as well.

K

At least three seasons that would be, you might abandon it in the dead of winter, but I I you can.

V

Find ways to yeah. Well, I removed the the floods. Wood stove, keep it from burning preservation, yeah.

K

Yeah and I filled filled that uh in in the roof, so um all right, yeah. Okay, uh do I communicate.

P

With you about uh schedule for next week, okay motion to continue: do you want to try and do.

J

Something next month or do you need a little more time to work with your architect, go with february.

B

And then we'll continue it if you're, okay, let's do that yeah ocean to continue until thursday.

A

All those in favor all right question to adjourn all right.