City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 9 Mar 2022

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3.9.2022 Historic District Commission

A

Motion: okay. Welcome to the march 9th meeting of the historic district commission um before.

A

I forget it. I would like to make introductions here, which I seem to have forgotten last week.

A

So we have, on my right hand, side uh dan brown good evening. uh Martin ryan, hello,.

A

And reagan: rudig hello, uh my name is john wyckoff and then uh nick crack now good evening.

A

Margo doring hello, dave adams good evening yup and karen bouffard good evening.

A

Right now and before we jump into the agenda, I would just like to say this is something.

A

We haven't voted on, but I'm hoping that I have a agreement from everybody. I just want to say that.

A

Our hearts and prayers are out with the people of ukraine, and we understand that they shouldn't.

A

Have to suffer through this war and that they are strong people and we hope they persevere.

A

So um I just thought: I'd say that and now the board's actions in these matters have been deemed.

A

To be quasi-judicial in nature, if any person believes any member of the board has a conflict.

A

Of interest, that issue should be raised at this point, or it will be deemed waived and our first.

A

Order is administrative approvals. um 28 chapel street number two is not ready. Can I ask uh we.

B

Didn't approve the minutes last time we were going to come next next meeting. Oh, even though they're.

B

Still in the they were still in it this time the minutes are still in the cooker yeah they're going.

C

To be done next meeting: oh yeah, yeah, okay, okay, so we're on administrative approvals uh number one.

A

And number three and nick: what's your presentation all right, so we have two administrative approvals.

C

uh They're both really simple 53 market street is simply a roof replacement. It's a.

C

Asphalt, probably rolled asphalt, roof now and they're going to replace it with a rubber membrane.

C

And it's a flat roof building at 53.. Let me scroll down and see yeah. The images are pretty.

C

Weak in here uh we've got a site plan, but it is a flat roof building at 53 market and.

C

I suppose I could go look at street view to confirm that, but it's a it's a flat roof portion.

C

Of the building they're doing the roof repair yeah, which is why there isn't a photograph of it facade.

C

That's it, I think, that's fine. Does everybody else, think it's okay flat, roof, okay, yeah, okay,.

C

Then, on 131 congress, this, I believe, is the loft part of the music hall. They are simply putting.

C

In a if you well, I gotta share my screen. That would help um bear with me here. Sorry about that.

C

Okay, up on the screen and on your ipads.

C

Is the um rear wall of the the loft portion of the building on conga street into the worth lot.

C

They're proposing to put this very one step, concrete landing, and this is the handrail system.

C

That is needed with that step into the back of the building. So that's it.

D

No questions all righty, um so all those in favor of these two approvals say aye. How about I move.

B

That we approve these two administrative approvals. Yeah, I'm jumping the gun, go ahead.

B

All right I made, I made the motion. Okay, so all those in favor say aye, aye, aye,.

A

All right, all those against all right, so that's done uh work session old business.

A

Work session requested by one rains, avenue llc 31 rains, llc and 203 maplewood avenue.

A

Llc owners for property located at 1 rains, avenue 31 rains avenue and 203 maplewood.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of a four to five story.

A

Mixed-Use building and a five-story hotel, as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 123 lot, 14 map, 123 lot, 13 and map 123 lot. 12 lies within.

A

The character district 4 in historic districts, this is a work session and so we're heading down.

A

And our comfy seats are over.

E

D

A

Okay, so who's here and what do we got good evening, uh carlo goodnight and.

F

Jacob wieder from cj, architects and evan tormey from uh pro con and xxs.

F

So last time we were here, we started sort of looking around at different styles, potentially for.

F

The two buildings for the hotel building in the mixed use, building so based on those two styles or.

F

Based on the two buildings, we developed uh three different style approaches for each of the.

F

Each of the buildings um and the 2.0 series shows the three styles uh prepared for the mixed use and.

F

Each style is followed by a page of contributing details and photos, uh inspirational photos and.

F

Also, the three series is again three styles for the hotel and the corresponding photos and details.

F

And then on 4.0 we just have the reference pages uh for you in the event that you want to refer.

F

To the plans or the footprints or some of the site data, so this first set on 1.1 is.

F

A flash card view that we use during our internal review process. That's kind of.

F

Helpful for us to see the three styles and as they sort of flash by on the same view, so you can have.

F

It shows you the impact of the various designs on the building elements that are common across.

F

All three of the themes, so I'd like to just take a look quickly at these sets.

F

And then we'll move into more greater detail. So are you controlling the sneaker okay.

F

So I'd just like to this is uh 1.1, which is the box bay version. And then, if you flip.

F

To 1.2, you see the building transform into the version with the more vertical elements.

F

And the black sort of dramatic um balancing pieces on the on the front.

F

And then, if you flip it again, you see a third iteration of that same uh arc. Same architectural.

F

Massing and the same goes for the hotel. uh If you look at the next slide,.

G

I'm sorry carla.

F

uh We picked this view of the hotel, as sort of you know, a way to visualize this style. This is.

F

Style one option: one option: two c gives a total different look and option three.

F

Another different feeling altogether so now back to the mixed use.

F

Back to um I'm sorry, two point nope going to 2.0, so we're on 2.0 and I'd like to dive a little bit.

F

Deeper into option one so option: one features: a box bay, balcony composition, together, separated by.

F

Punched openings in more traditional brick elements.

F

And then what we have also done on this one is recessed the commercial entries around a glazed.

F

Corner so that we have that different. Look on the um on the commercial level on the first floor.

F

We've also brought that center volume on above the single story piece forward a little bit.

F

To separate the end pieces and we've introduced a larger trellis across.

F

That whole area and then we've also added upper trellis, features there on the penthouse level as a.

F

Defining design elements, so this is the um maplewood street view and then we've added a view.

F

um Down rain dav on 2.1 of the bays sort of modulating and the covered.

F

Areas over the commercial entries supporting the bottom of the bays and then this the upper.

F

Cornice caps, the bay and the balcony, and again you get a better view here of the.

F

Trellis elements up on the penthouse level and then, if you flip to 2.2 it's uh the same.

F

Looking the other way at a more street level impact of that view and then on.

F

F

We've sort of zeroed in on the top floor, design with the trellis forms and the first.

F

Activated rooftop with skyline elements in the first snapshot then uh highlighted the recessed.

F

Entries with glazed corners to provide interest in breaks along the storefront at the sidewalk level,.

F

And then the modern, brick and metal flank the more traditional vertical brick element at the center.

F

And we've just created a more of a balance on that kind of offset there by using those textures.

F

And then, of course, the projecting bays are very prominent and promote a residential feel and the.

F

Bays are framed by the traditional brick punched openings, detailed with precast sills and lentils.

F

And then we have a little inspirational photo on the upper right of a similar treatment and then of.

F

Course the um the trellis idea as well, so we've incorporated that look just for do you think we.

A

Could um discuss this right now sure if that's easier than going through, all of that design.

A

Too, would anyone like to jump into design one of building one? What do you feel about anything.

G

I have some comments for design. I appreciate where we come from the last time we presented.

G

I think this is more of what we were asking for um and I, like a lot of the elements that I see.

G

Here um I, the one thing that does bother me with: it is the way it's kind of heavy in the middle.

D

And it sits on a very translucent base. um I just feel like scale wise. It should be the base should.

G

Be a little heavier, maybe there's those masonry elements be a little thicker, maybe more of them.

H

um It just would give it a bit of an authenticity if that base had a little more substance to it.

F

Right this is the lightest of the. This is one of the lighter bases and the way it's rendered.

G

Also makes it look very um then. So that's my comment. Okay, should we go around reagan.

A

Are you ready or do you want? No, if other people have something they want to say.

A

The extreme left margo.

F

Maybe they want to get through all of them. Well, no, I would just prefer that we do this move on.

A

Move on move on and move on, I don't. I don't have much to add at this point, because I still can't.

E

Get past the mass of this building. So while I appreciate all the design elements, you've added.

E

Makes it difficult for me to say positive things about a building that I still feel is too big.

A

That's pretty basic david, I'm still struggling with the building and the composition of it. The.

I

The fact that we have to render this thing in so many different discrete parts.

I

And mush the parts together, I I.

I

I, when I was a kid we didn't have them, but imagine that I was a kid and I had legos I'd.

I

Be fine with just the red legos, uh because I'm interested in the shapes and and if you.

I

Dumped off the reds, along with the whites and the browns, I still probably just use the reds. So I'm.

I

Trying to solve massing problems, which is the are the business right.

I

uh Trying to solve that by breaking it into separate parts so that they can be viewed.

I

Separately- and one of them is always lighter than the others, so that we can ignore that it's there.

I

I I never never did anything like that, so I don't. I don't find myself warming up to it at all.

I

Sorry I mean I know that you're working I got it. I can see you're working at this you're leaning into.

I

The problem: it's not that I discredit your efforts. I just I am not on board damn. What do you feel.

D

I I would be using many colored legos and I like the way it is broken up at.

D

uh To the different bands and the different colors highlighting the corner, highlighting the.

D

Restaurant area, um but it's it is still very big uh compared to the things of maple wood.

D

Not compared to the things across the street on reigns, but.

D

I'm still having a little trouble with the size, and I am too and I feel like you know, I went and.

B

Looked at the minutes from the last meeting, just so that I wasn't just remembering anything, and I.

B

Think we all had concerns about that, and so I'm a little disappointed that there's no change in.

D

The nasting that you've brought back to us and you're just plowing forward with the design.

B

I'm not you know in terms of design, I'm not really excited by this. I think it's just very busy and.

B

It's again trying to mask what is just a large building that needs to be diminished somewhat.

B

It's got to be cut back and scaled back a little bit and I know we haven't gotten to the hotel, but.

B

That's even larger and we haven't, I haven't, seen any production in that one. After a very consistent.

B

Comment that that building was too big, um maybe not everybody. I don't remember exactly what you.

B

Said but um you were more positive, I think and had other ideas, I'm not afraid of large buildings.

B

But this is- um and you know I think the building across the street works well for where it is again.

B

The north end charette, we said you know we would work from low on the shoreline.

J

Up in sort of the middle of the block and again this is set away from the shoreline, but um it's.

B

Yeah yep, okay, so I'm going to agree with some problems with massing. It's wide. It's long.

A

um What I do like is your effort to bring forward that mass.

A

On the front, um my biggest problem with this is I've really felt that this building.

A

Does not have a real front and one that's what I would like to see somehow or another.

D

Would be on maplewood avenue an actual front of the building that you know could be one story to.

A

You know it's setting back similar to what you've done, but to make it make it more important than.

A

You've done um the what you've done now is a little offset, and your projecting mass is kind.

A

Of in the middle of the building, and then you know your one story- thing leans to the left. um I would.

A

Rather see more formal front and and and maybe um a set of bays cut off the length of the building.

A

And my other comment is: are those uh projecting screens on the fifth floor are.

A

They doing anything or are they just stuck up there they're shaped they offer shade up there.

F

Too, for the rest of the just for shade: okay yeah, I think your formality of the entrance will help.

B

With the pedestrian scale on this, which I think is missing from this design, you have somewhat.

B

Of it on that sort of one story bump out, but then just a long expanse of glass on the other side. So.

G

I think the context to the other buildings will also help.

G

What's going on in this particular street, okay.

D

All right, okay, so that's option one well, let me back up a little bit um not too far.

F

So I think my impression of the meeting last time was that that you were.

F

Still a little bit unsure about the way the building.

F

Didn't project in as low you know didn't step down towards the water.

F

And the reason that it doesn't step down towards the water, as we discussed, is because we want to.

F

Stay out of that 100 foot area, so we've pulled the whole building back out of the water, so it.

F

Isn't I mean it could step down towards the water, but it would be in the hundred foot.

F

And um so, instead, we've created a greater empty space and that was sort of one of our.

F

Issues there was just that whole battle between you know the appeals process and.

F

Violating 100-foot buffer versus satisfying the step down requirements, so that was a struggle.

F

And then it seemed to me also that that the option three which is sort of our closest to.

F

Our original design was also causing us issues and it's hard to sort of manage modulation.

F

Without some sort of language that you're doing it in, I proved all due respect to the red legos.

F

I like to have a like some kind of a style that we're working in that can help us sort of create.

F

Those looks or achieve those goals and it felt to me like we had a, and maybe I misread the feedback.

F

But it felt to me like we were really unsure about that 100-foot buffer piece, but we were also really.

F

Unsure about all these architectural styles, we didn't know if it should be looking like this.

F

Or like the next one or that you know and the same for the hotel, carla, what style would you.

A

Say this building is well, it's six styles right now I mean there's three now option one! That's.

A

What we're talking about building one option option one is a transitional because it has some.

F

Recognition of um his of uh more traditional elements like the punched openings with the.

F

You know precast, uh sills and so forth, but then it's offset by more more modern um forms of.

F

Box bays and that kind of thing, so it has a little bit of modern. You know juxtaposed on.

F

What's the purpose of the white corner there in the front, just an accent, piece transition.

A

I would you know before we go on. I would say that I do appreciate the lentils and sills I.

A

Like to see that okay, um do you want to go on? Well, I think we have six options all together.

F

Well, I think what I'd like to do is, if you know review, I don't want you to think reviewing these.

F

Is somehow signing off on if you're not I mean you've made it clear, you still want to look at.

F

Some of these massing in some of these volumes. So I appreciate that and we completely accept that.

F

As as something that we can do for our next meeting, but I think I'd like to.

F

Get I'd like to get a little bit closer on either one of these, whether it's the style.

F

Or the massing, so if we can get a little bit closer on the style, then we can use that style.

F

To go back a step and look again at what we would like to do with the massing. But at least.

F

We're making some progress because it's, I think it's hard for everybody to you, know.

F

Hard for me to look through, maybe you should say approach instead of style, because style.

G

Approach yeah because style evokes a whole bunch of different meanings right; okay, just what.

F

Is sort of thinking uh that you all think prefer in this area as an appropriate.

F

Expression, I would jump I'll just jump in, although I probably should in this chair and for me I would.

A

Like to see this much more traditional, I would like to you know for me. I would.

A

Would see um some lap siding in this location coming across from the colonial section of.

A

Portsmouth, the north and with the jackson house, and all that I'd like to see this thing.

A

um Look like a dartmouth building or something you know, that's what I'd like to see and I'd like the.

A

Front of it to be formal and then your hotel, often the boondocks. Well, that's a whole nother thing.

A

But if they're this thing here I would like to see it, but that's me, you know.

A

And does that mix in very well with the heinemann's building on maplewood avenue.

A

Maybe there's ways of doing it, but that's that's just what I you know.

A

I keep wondering why doesn't somebody build a traditional looking building.

A

That's me: anyone else want to jump in margo just feel free to talk. You know.

E

Without answering your question about which style I prefer.

E

I'd like to expound a little on the thought of where the front of the building may.

E

And given the length that you have along reigns avenue, I would find it difficult to try to make.

E

A center out of that really long piece, I think your most logical.

A

Sit a little closer! Well, it's hard to look at that.

E

So, where that corner meets seems a logical entrance place to me, one.

E

Because it doesn't mean you have to walk all the way down rains avenue to get there.

E

And you probably will have an entrance down there if somebody's coming up from, say, 3s art space.

E

But the logical main entrance to me is where the road curves.

E

And people see that building they right now they get a view of the pond and what instead.

E

They're going to get the view of your building, and that seems to be the logical place to me.

E

To put the entrance and from there you split, left and right, depending on what you want to do inside.

E

The building um I did find some of your attempts to make the one-story thing that sticks out.

E

Not be something that looks like this, where you've got a very, very tall cliff and then you have a.

E

Very long shelf and it just sits out a little bit like a port coucher, but not exactly and where you.

E

Have some elements that are projecting out a little bit? You've made a little bit of a step.

E

Down or a little bit of a terrace, a faux terracing effect, if you could play off of that a little bit.

E

More, I think, maybe you're doing it, because you want some big rooftop something going on here.

E

But I think that the building itself would benefit from a little bit of sacrifice on that rooftop.

E

To have some stuff more volume does that have a step down that that comes down to.

E

To the road and also respects the buildings that are across the way.

E

Or made the same request: less abrupt yeah. We made the same request of 114 maplewood that they think.

E

About stepping down a little bit to respect the buildings across the way, and they did.

E

So that those are just two additions or two changes that I would recommend to.

E

The building, regardless of style, just structure, okay, all right. Anybody else.

A

Want to help carl out, mr wyckoff made a comment about having the front door and I'm always a big.

I

Proponent of front door was a trick-or-treat yeah. I remember that you know they're themes.

I

um But an iconic building in portsmouth is the rockingham hotel, which.

I

Mysteriously has two friends, two front doors, that's another thing that can be done to bracket.

I

If there was a thing that I could see here in my that, I the thing that I I see coming out of.

I

This is how to describe what I like, or what I think is appropriate. It is something of a.

I

A full composition, not a thing, that's made of parts that are delineated to.

I

Represent different things, but a building where the parts are symmetrical sometimes.

I

uh Where they balance each other that they are dependent on each other, uh like.

I

Our little cottage hospital right out there has a centerpiece and two dependencies that they're all.

I

They're kind of different buildings, they have a bunch of pieces in common, the.

I

Red legos and but but many of the features are, are while they're not all completely. In the same.

I

Scale they're represent they're related to each other, so it provides that sense of a composition.

I

And maybe that in this circumstance the peace along maplewood avenue is a little uh dependency.

I

Of of that, but the main piece of this thing is silly thing that has a describable composition and.

I

Like mr wyckoff, I I sort of am a fan of windows that have headers and sills uh and I'm the red.

I

Brick, red lego: uh you can see the thing there yeah the car. I don't know that that's really.

I

All that limiting we've done pretty well with our little town in celebrating some of these things.

I

Even though everybody says there's too much red brick, people seem to be able to still find their.

I

Way here and decide to come here, I would like to suggest also that someone that wanted to.

I

Drop the the money that it was going to cost to have. One of these units would like the town.

I

We would like to have a feeling that they bought into a specific place rather than something that's.

I

Nearby, I had a client one time walks to the edge of a new building. We look out and he.

I

Says you know I spent all this money on this building this apartment that I'm going to have.

I

And I look out and and I I see this great old town and I realize I'm not in it- I'm in another place.

I

Looking out at this great old town, I'd like to be in that town.

I

If any of that makes any sense it does it does. Thank you very much. It does.

F

I mean what I'm hearing is, you know obviously more traditional and um you know maybe less busy.

F

Less of a collection of elements which you know if we're gonna as we produce seed through this, isn't.

F

As traditional, but if we go to 2.4 and start looking at the second option, it's definitely.

F

Cleaner, it's a cleaner look, it's more industrial.

F

We've chosen a lighter shade of brick and we've basically looked taken. The penthouse.

F

Level and sort of diminished it made it much more subordinate and pulled in some stronger.

F

Basically, some stronger elements on on maple wood, so I think it starts. It's still moderate.

F

More modern, but it's definitely cleaner and there's more strength to your point on.

F

This still one step instead of multiple or descending, so I'm not negating what you're saying.

F

About the massing, but um it is, you know, cleaner and a little bit more deliberate in that way.

F

So higher contrasting elements, so anyone else on this one option. Two. Could I say something about.

G

The low element on maplewood ave, it seems like it's you've, stepped down there and it.

G

You have this little roof deck and I can't even see the doorway that gets you there.

G

That just seems like a really under expressed space. Why not make the? Why not do something.

G

Why not make the roof deck the whole expanse of it? You know it just seems like.

G

It's not really.

G

It's missing an opportunity here.

G

I'd like to see something a little better these these, I assume these are rooms that.

G

Are looking onto the roof part of it that can't be? They would be partially.

F

Utilized by the uh by the condos or by the units behind there and then some.

F

The rest of it would be just roof area just seemed like a missed opportunity. um I I kind of this. This.

G

I don't like the bass on this one as much as your other one, but.

G

I think the bass on the first one need it's. I just feel like I gravitate towards that. First.

G

Scheme, I I think that there are references to the rest of the city and the small.

G

Three-Story little townhouses.

G

I'm seeing that language, I agree with mr adams that this needs some elements that.

G

That make this a build, a one building that there needs a there needs some focal points in hierarchy.

G

uh Maybe there's an element at the roof that ties this, and it makes this one building an element.

G

Of the street element at the roof, so I agree with that completely you too, um and I think that again.

B

Working the traditional into a you know, a building of today is threading the needle it's a very hard.

B

Thing to do, um but you know you've, you've started here with that, because you've got the references.

B

To the the window proportions the headers, the red bricks stuff like that, um so I I think that.

B

You could get there in with that direction and that language simplifying that building.

B

A little bit still having a few elements here and there that are more contemporary.

B

You know uh details and and little bits here and there so that it's not you know.

B

I certainly, as everybody knows I wouldn't want to see you, try and design an old building that.

B

We're rebuilding today, um but there are those combined elements that once you get the right.

B

Balance it'll work, I'm not I'm not really a fan of the buff and black brick. um I don't see you know.

B

We don't have a whole lot of that in portsmouth, so it's not really referencing much so you're leaning.

F

Toward option one more with just simplification in that direction: okay, bam. What are you feeling.

D

Oh in general, I'm an option one fan, but but that I know what you're trying to do with that corner.

K

uh To bring this building down to the neighborhood, but but it looks like it doesn't seem to be part.

D

Of the building it looks like some garage or something they added on at the last minute.

D

I'm trying to figure out how you would get that to sweep into the rest of the building.

A

So I'd just like to say first, I have a question: what is that one story is that going to have.

A

Opaque glass and it's going to be a swimming pool; no, no! It's envisioned to be a retail likely. I.

L

Mean it seems like a great spot for a restaurant without the outdoor seating that we're providing.

L

There, because I don't know either the hampton inn or one of them, you know. Oh, we got all this.

A

Retail on the first floor, and then what happened is it all was opaque glass and that's with their.

A

Workout room and such you know, and it just didn't quite meet what we thought it was going to be.

A

There's something about option two that seems to lessen the mass, and I don't know what it is.

A

You know, but I I know that that's happened before with adding windows, subtract and all of a sudden.

A

The mass doesn't appear as great and option two seems to do that, but I agreeing with reagan I hate.

A

The buff bricks I mean I would I would like to see the option. I would like to see a stronger base as.

A

uh Martin has mentioned and um right you know some kind of formal large entry way that says here. I am.

A

Come on in this is your beautiful apartments are here you know, and and and um so a lobby and all.

A

That sort of thing, maybe a doorman, you know um just joking, uh but why not? Why not do it all.

A

Brick, why do we have to have these disparate white things start? You know the corner of option. One.

A

For no reason, just oh I'm a white corner for no reason, there's no door in it. It's nothing and.

A

I don't know well here that goes away, but I think what you're both saying, what I'm taking.

F

From both of your comments, I'm just going to reiterate to make sure we're on the same page.

F

Don't have a miss um is that you, like the stronger base element, which I agree, and this.

F

Is sort of lesser of a base element, but it has very strong verticals which have a tendency to.

F

Modulate that you know the wall so that it really does feel like separate pieces more so than when.

F

There's a unifying base, but you can do both. You can strengthen this base and retain some.

F

Vertical elements, um you know as just the look that you might want and make it more traditional.

F

Okay, it's my thought still keeping in mind that we want to see massing changes.

A

If you shortened it a bay or something I mean you would have more of a space in between.

A

That and a hotel which would make the whole project better. Okay, why don't you keep going.

A

Okay, unless somebody else wants to chime in one more time, I think we'll just I didn't want to.

G

Say one one thing about the balconies: um we didn't talk about these balconies and I think some of the.

G

Elements of the building that the dark brook and the red brick, I think I I like I said to me: they.

G

They make references to the rest of our town. Balconies are totally fine, totally uh alien to.

G

To the rest of that language on option two on option: one on option: one: okay, I was gonna, say.

F

I guess I can't get past that either. Okay, um maybe if, if you took that kind of bay quality.

G

Of the of the dark vertical elements and voided them out to turn them into balconies, maybe that.

G

Would read better because right now I see you know, I see miami beach, glass, rail, very um yeah,.

G

Those balconies bothered the white white pops yeah. I see what you mean about knowing.

D

All right, not even north carolina, all right well, based on what you've told me so far.

F

uh Option three was just a update of the last one, so I think we can just move on to that. I.

F

Guess you're not gonna, that one has more going on than the other two. So I would say we are not.

F

Going to be considering that moving forward, um you know it seems that the balconies that you have.

A

On number two are seem to go away a little bit better, like even option three which doesn't have.

A

The white trim on it the balcony, stick out but option. One has definitely got the worst balcony.

A

Okay, that's good to know all right. I would say that the the first floor element of option three.

G

Is doing more than than the other two? Okay stronger! It's stronger! It's more of a what.

A

Architecture is it set in. Is that what it does it set in? It's just higher it's higher and it's all.

F

The same, I think, that's, what's I'm seeing a couple of elements up there that are more appealing than.

G

The other two okay, it's kind of hard to get a hand, oh because it's black, whatever those.

A

Black things are they're awnings; those are just canopies canopies over the whole store structural.

A

Canvas awnings nope, they're structural. They seem to be like three or four feet in depth: yeah yeah.

I

Because they don't, they don't require any additional supports on them. They're.

F

Cantilevered steel, they look like steel, I-beams type of thing. Is that a good thing look at that.

F

Look at the length of that building, it's even shorter. Are you pretty excited? I'm asking you man.

I

What is a good thing? We've got these, I don't know, looks like I'm not certain, but it looks like two.

I

Very large brick teleno awnings that sit three or four feet away from the building.

I

They have dimension to them. They look like they're about 12 inch in thickness.

I

And yet they sat there with no bracketry or support post or anything. Is that a modern.

I

Architecture thing to just stick things out: I'm sure it is, but I would say that.

G

This thing needs to be right now they just seem in. In this view, they seem to be plopped down.

G

You know and not really integrated with the whole building now, in this view, they seem like they're.

G

Doing they're participating in the whole building mm-hmm like we wanted to. Certainly that is 2.8.

D

They go right to the edge. They seem like they're, not an afterthought. That they're.

G

Really part of the yeah and what's the bad view, 2.9 where's, the one: that's here you didn't like.

D

A

There again the difference between the apparent massing of the length. You know right between 2.9.

A

And option one: it's amazing option: one looks like it's 50 feet longer than all the same.

F

Options: they're all the exact same clipped views because there's more repetition, you think or.

I

You're calling out the that this is composed of many elements. These look like wider bays.

A

Yeah, that could be it. The bays are wider, yeah there's a lot of elements.

A

Stacked up the same amount of balconies I've, you know, but it just looks shorter.

A

I think that's important, I'm not saying I positively love option three, but it's.

A

Got that going for it good right? Doesn't that look shorter yeah, I'm not sure how why but yeah.

A

And then nick put two point one, I think 2.1 and there look at that.

A

Looks like it's about 500 yards long. I can do this and sort of it does line up but yeah. It's weird.

L

It's more granular! Well, that goes to the style affecting it visually, which is very a very real.

F

Effect, so all right uh do you want to move on to.

F

Hotel options it seems to be next in line, it is next. Yes, all right. uh Looking at 3.0.

F

uh This is a more of a light metal top floor panel and we've gone with a.

F

Narrower entrance over the um the drive-through and then uh sort of more of a vertical form.

F

With textured metal in between and then the the actual brick has um some texture on those vertical.

F

Vertical elements there, so if you zoom in on 3.1, you get a closer view of that composition.

F

And a little bit of a different window pattern with lentils and sills added to the brick portions.

F

And then 3.2 is is a um the third view of that of that angle. So.

F

Again, the hotel is more of a rectilinear form for sure.

B

We don't have any views of this on the actual facade. Well, we picked one of each facade because.

F

We're looking at six of the different sort of expressions to see which uh get a kind of a feel.

F

For what would be preferred, what would be rejected? What would be considered.

F

Somewhat appropriate, how does everybody feel about the hotel option? One.

A

Martin, you seem to be good at jumping right in. I drank a lot of coffee today,.

G

G

I yeah, I think part of the problem is that.

G

I there's I'll talk about what I like. I I like the brick work. I like the fact that some of the brick.

G

Work is, is uh there's some detail in it that that what I think bothers me is that you have these.

G

Vertical elements that reach a horizontal element and there's there's no they're the same width. It's.

G

Take this element right here. This goes up, and then it just turns around. It comes back down and.

G

Looks like a framing square: doesn't it yeah? It would be preferable that.

G

There'd be some sort of articulation that it would go up and that it would meet a different.

G

It would meet a heavier element. The columns are thinner than.

G

The beams the beams are thicker than the columns. You know it. It just seems like it's lacking.

G

I you know what I like is: if you go to 3.7 and you look at the upper right hand, inspiration.

G

Like that- and I think you could get that- I think you could get there- that does.

G

What I you know, there's some hierarchy of elements.

M

You know the vertical elements have a certain thing: they're doing the horizontal elements.

G

Everything they're going, the corners has the thing. It's doing, you know, there's there's.

G

And there's a balanced composition to it. Yeah you know you're, absolutely right.

I

My partner of years, uh steve roy used to is a mason and everything in his life had to somehow.

I

Support something else, and he spent his life, piling things up to put things on top of the you.

I

Know the big beams or whatever and uh his theory of architecture which I adhere to uh is, is that.

I

Things should look like they're, they can carry weight, they're bearing weight and- and uh I think.

I

Your martin's comment about the the that view of the hotel on the back of the framing square.

I

um Is it's a lot of heavy vertical and you get to the top and nothing seems to happen.

I

Whereas the that composition of of that inspirational thing, it's made of parts.

I

We've done this before, uh but they all seem to link on to each other and relate to each.

I

Other and each they aren't celebrating that they're there or in the case of the white.

I

Things celebrating that they're not there or suggesting that they're not there. This is all.

I

Honestly they're bearing the weight, the load of the thing above them.

D

Yep all right makes a lot of sense. I would say: option two: is your most successful.

E

Except for the mass.

F

Yes, not really to say, I'm not really.

B

Excited by any of the three- and I think part of that again, is that it's too big yeah and it's too.

B

It reads too much like a hotel. It's just all these little bitty windows and roses.

B

But it's but you know, there's there's a.

B

It's not bland, but it's just you know, there's there's kind of an.

B

An in uh quality to a lot of hotel buildings, because it's just so regular and it's just so.

B

You know it is what it is, but um you know, are we dismissing option one because that's what's.

A

Happened because margot is taking the lead and you're looking at option two and yeah. You know.

A

I know you don't like any of them, but what is there anything on option? One that appeals to you.

A

That's good and dan. What do you feel I'm? I.

H

Go along with option two: my concern about mass is a little less here.

D

Because now we're away from maplewood we're still up against the pond. But.

D

There's going to be a lot of ass on that pond next door in the new building too so.

K

I could accept mass here if I could see some reduction in the mess.

D

And two, I think, uh has a nice pleasing balance to it. What's the number for two number two, what.

A

Is it three point four: is that the first one yeah three point, four, looking to start at the beginning,.

F

Four five: three point: five yep three point: five again, I think this is a little more.

F

um Regular and then it's interesting because this is again the one that it brings elements.

F

To the ground, although we do want to try to get a a stronger base, but it also has the patterning.

F

um That you find feeling in the design inspiration photo on 3.7. So we here we have a little bit.

F

Of that um featured in this, although it is more of a modern interpretation and the 3.7.

F

Inspiration photo has that little slant towards traditional that I think you're you're. Looking for.

F

So there's something about the left side of it. The more brick said that.

B

Screams 1970s to me- and I think it's those panels in between and I don't know but.

F

All right, yeah, the brick, the black, brick yeah, it's it's the it's.

B

The division of the of all the different yeah last past is that black is that black brick. It is.

A

At least it's not, you know, imitation stucco stuff, that's that's a good thing.

I

Does that run its course the drive it exteriors? I hope so. I hope so. You know what they use it for.

A

Now they're covering a lot of older buildings like hotels that were built in the 70s or something.

A

That are looking kind of tired, so they slap a coat on there and you know give it a couple elements so.

A

Try to make it look like you know the alamo and of course, then you get in the lobby and.

A

You look around. You go, oh boy, it's the same place, happy to have missed it, but happy to not have run.

F

Across that, yet it's cheap. Well, I have you know because I drove down to florida and you know so.

A

I stopped you know and you got fredericksburg. You got lumberton north carolina. You've got all these.

A

Towns that are all about 500 miles apart, you know, and they all have an access road and they all have.

A

You know the best western and you know they're all and they all look they're all four stories tall.

A

Even in these little towns- and they all look the same and that's what we're trying to avoid to.

F

Avoid this, because this is downtown portsmouth on the water, valuable location, you know, if you.

A

Could make this thing? Look like the wentworth by the sea. I would thank you. I would come over.

F

Personally, shovel your driveway, my driveway's, eight hundred, I wouldn't volunteer for that. One.

A

It better look just like the one straight up. Please please do it yeah um so option two any.

A

Other comments on option two: why don't we have a um other side view, or is this just.

D

Give us something we're just yeah with this one. We just did because it's the.

D

You know as to your point, the hotel is a pretty rectilinear form so well, it's like a snapshot.

F

Of this side, but it's a that's the back. Yes, is it like a clamp or something the general shape.

D

Yeah and the view we're seeing is the is the back- is the across the water from the market.

D

Street no idea what the foot would look like. Hopefully it would match. Okay, oh yes, yeah all.

D

Right, the front's gonna have a nice entryway. Well that's so this sort of we were thinking that this.

L

More dramatic mass at the drive-through would be repeated at the entry door on reigns avenue.

L

Or similar, probably a little narrower, but right we chose to go in that direction. Right.

I

Where is the front door of this building going to go just staring down? 4.1.

I

Well, if you go to 4.0, you can see there's a entry with some steps right on the sort of.

L

The bend of where uh bond turns to reigns so in a sense in the middle of that apparent piece of.

I

The building that you see it isn't occluded by the building. That's already there got it.

I

Oh yeah, exactly so, if you cut off the building with the 3s building right, what you're left with.

L

That you're, seeing from coming down vaughn's it it's right in the middle in front of him.

D

Yes, can I add, I I'm a fan of of option one only because there's more masonry and it looks.

G

Punched openings and it's it looks like a more traditional building. um I think part of the reason.

G

And it's repetitive space interiors right, so yeah it's hard to get around.

G

That you try to have that same finished package inside the same window, right.

G

Part of that is, if you, you have your base floor window, and then you have your windows in the.

G

Body, if your window changed slightly at the at the very top, that would help to sort of break up this.

G

Cookie cutter effect.

G

And I think that's what's in your inst the inspiration when mm-hmm.

G

Yes, well, yeah! Yes, yes, it's a little bit different. But yes, I see what you mean all.

B

Right we want to move on to number three, because I actually, I actually think there are a lot of.

B

Elements of the third one that are 3.9.9 that are helpful in terms of looking at the messaging.

B

The colors! No, um but you know if you, if you made them the brick part like an actual red brick and.

B

Worked it but that that central part over the opening there that actually.

B

Is set up there's enough of a framework or a big thick heavy framework around that that it.

B

Actually looks like a separate section and it breaks up that monotonous rhythm of the.

B

Windows enough that it, it actually looks like they might be on different floor planes. um It kind of.

B

Tricks the eye more, it doesn't introduce that differently with a different window. There yeah.

B

So I so there are elements of this design that I think work better, um and you know that the black.

B

Top story there, if you could, you know, set that back a foot or something and it.

L

Would actually minimize that top story a little bit if we.

B

You know unless you just take it off, um but um so I think that there are elements.

B

Of of that particular design that do trick the eye enough to break up the massing.

I

You could easily turn this into a.

I

Composition of of two flanking pieces to that center drive through and then come up.

I

With some way to handle the excessive bit excess on the left-hand side, you.

I

You've established some of that almost did it. You've got three bays on one side. You've got.

I

Four, on the other, before you put that other break in, but some a mechanism like that to create that.

I

And then might be a place to do word to to set back or to rearrange the the fifth floor so that.

I

There's just a little bit less of that wall, but we'd be back to that creation of a composition.

F

Right and this one does omit that uh entirely on the leg that faces the water yeah. This top.

F

Floor is omitted on the leg. I don't think that was lost on anyone. Okay, good just thought I'd. You know.

F

We're not, we are talking about massing still your horn here. Well, it's not on two. Is it.

A

It's on, but is it on it's on? No, that's on this missing from all of them. Yeah, okay,.

A

I mean from the water.

A

From the water, the white.

A

Fast, it looks better from the water.

A

I hate to say that because then up, you know when I'm looking at it straight on.

A

I'm not liking, it just might be easier to see the lines because of the contrast.

F

They might be easier to just see the actual. You know proportions potentially.

A

I think you know martin might be on to something with number one if, if the bricks were continuous.

A

All the way over to the center portion, in other words, you didn't- have the l, the right angled.

A

My framing square of white, you know, if you didn't, have that that technique and and then you.

A

Did something with the fifth floor with darker or some other types of windows or whatever, but.

A

You know because it does read like a traditional brick building through four floors.

F

Well, I thank you all for giving us this feedback it has. It really has been helpful.

F

We've, given you lots of ideas, it has really been helpful, so I wanted to look like the one.

F

There's some elements on this one that we like there's some elements on the second one.

F

That we like- and we like the inspiration photo and on this one I think I got some.

F

Good feedback on this, but I think I just want to go back to the massing piece and just say.

F

You definitely want to modulate or somehow compartmentalize this elevation upon rains.

F

That's something that everybody seems to feel strongly about that just the length of that.

F

Is something that is needs to be modulated? um The piece the massing facing maplewood.

F

I'm hearing is uh too discordant: it's a mess, it's too distorted. How do you really feel john.

F

Right- and I understand that so I understand the length and I understand that.

F

I'm struggling a little bit with the uh you know, the the the rules of the water setback.

F

um Just that water, it's up to you in the state of new hampshire, good luck, yeah.

F

That's the thing you know: that's just uh that's a hundred foot mid wetlands. You know thing that is.

F

Just uh a problem, um so I think the back of the building is still in the hundred feet and it's.

A

Loaded, so it's only the one-story section on. Maybe if you want- and it's there's a it's just a slight.

L

Corner of that, it's a sliver! That's there in order to me that one story thing is part of the problem.

A

I mean most of us are finding that as what is that, why is it there? You know: okay, it's got a deck on.

A

Top of it, but that doesn't you know, justify why it's there, so if it were eliminated and you had.

A

Pretty much a more traditional front of the building setback, maybe a couple trees.

A

Or something, then you wouldn't be in the hundred foot buffer and your life would be so much easier.

F

Well, I think we have some real options there and I think we have some real options on the.

F

Block length, I'm struggling with options where we've removed the whole building from the 100.

F

Foot buffer to build back out into it is yeah. It means we've all appreciated that I do have.

A

To ask if there's anybody in the public that wants to talk to anybody in the republic, public.

A

In the republic there you go, I want someone else sitting next to me.

N

Browder property owner 159, mcdonough street. um I agree with everything you've said and if you.

N

Read my letter, I think that the combination of the two the massing to me is is wild um just to.

N

Clarify that the 100 foot buffer is no parking lot either. So, but something very simple for me is the.

N

Concept of steps, so if you have a set of steps that you want to build in front of your house,.

N

You're not allowed to build them up against the sidewalk, so you have. This is the sidewalk and.

N

This is where your steps can be, so you can either build one big step or you can build a few steps.

N

And I find it amazing that the hundred foot buffer is just like the sidewalk, so you can have.

N

Your building go straight up next to the hundred foot buffer or you can have it go three stories.

N

Four stories, five stories, so the ability to step is not changed by the hundred foot buffer. It's.

N

Just an illusion, because the hundred foot buffer goes up to the edge of this building, just like the.

N

Edge of a sidewalk, you can only build so close to a sidewalk, and you can only build so close.

N

To the hundred foot buffer they're, actually in the hundred foot buffer with all of their with all of.

N

Their parking lot that is hundred foot buffer, but to do the steps is possible. All you gotta do is.

N

Instead of doing one big step, you're gonna do three stories four stories, five stories, so they.

N

Could easily do that? um I think everything else is in the letter. um I think in terms of the front.

N

And the side, um I really appreciate the fact that they actually came up with three designs.

N

And they're actually a little more reasonable what than what we've seen and they have some creativity.

N

To them- and I really appreciate that- and I did want to say that today because prior to this.

N

There were a lot of negative comments about what was presented, so I do want to say that.

N

We are moving in the right direction and I appreciate all your time. Thank you.

J

Hello, karen buffard 114 maplewood, app.

J

Thanks carla for your all your input, um I'm going to agree with what the commissioner said.

J

On just about everything, um I think we're changing elements, changing colors, adding trellises, but it's.

J

Really all to play down the mass, which is really a problem for me as well in both buildings. But.

J

Specifically, on maple wood, I also have an issue with the back of the building, which looks at the.

J

Pond it seems like it's, the back of the building and, and the pond to me should be really.

J

More important than I think what it is, it looks like the back of the building. Basically, and it is.

J

And also the open parking on the pond, um I know that it shares parking with the hotel parcel.

J

But I'm just curious in the end: how much parking will there be open on that lot?.

J

If you know at this point it's showing on the planet yeah, it is yeah it's on and that's really.

A

Not in our purview of the amount of space you can see 4.3.

C

This is all surface parking. The the stuff that's red is.

C

Future parking should they need it? No, it's not an elimination. Those are parking spaces. What's that I.

C

Got the wrong sheet: no, those weren't, those are not future parking. Those were produced eliminated yeah.

J

That was the question I had. I wasn't really sure what I was looking for. I would say 4.3.

F

That's fine, that's the earth! Berm buffer. There you go.

L

And then on this one there, you can see sort of the green areas again we're getting away from hdbc, but.

L

Just to clarify the green areas that have a dash line around them there here and here and yeah.

L

Those are future reserve spaces should they be needed, but we've eliminated that surface parking.

F

There's not yeah, there's a lot less than at the beginning of the project. There's a significant.

F

Reduction yeah, it was all backwards. The beginning of the project was we are we.

L

Have to you know, provide that fire line around the building so one way or another. You have that.

L

Driver does that have to be conventional asphalt. Couldn't just be this type of impervi pervious.

A

Wheat fault that, let's yeah you know, let's water get through it, you can't do poorest.

L

Payment on this site, you can't do it. No aot regulations prohibit it.

D

Aot, what is that alteration terrain? Permit again we're from the state from the state.

F

One thing we were able to do was to introduce.

F

Some patio space and some green space there, because you know the fire access- is infrequent.

F

Right not going to be going through there yeah, it's, not a drive-through and that's that's a big.

B

Improvement from a drive, even just the exit of a driveway yeah, and it was never a driveway. I think.

L

That was sort of a confusion. It was just that it we're keeping that space open and there's a little.

L

You know a mountable curb, but there's no curb cut there, that anyone would mistake for a driver.

A

Do you have any other comments? No that's my. My final comment is just you know. The math is is.

J

The biggest problem that I have and and then I would echo um that the inspiration photo 3.7.

J

Which is a traditional film love it all right. Thank you so much. Thank you.

L

So you have some lots of comments to think about.

D

It's going to be beautiful, a lot of building to design so.

F

Like that, luckily we've got the wentworth, so yeah.

A

I

Inspiration building was just my favorite uh in your presentation. You said: does that exist.

I

uh 3.7 yeah, I believe so. Yes, it's actually on it's in boston.

I

Said shoot me the address. We should go to boston, yeah.

F

It's actually a very long thing: yeah, it's in boston,.

L

Well, thank you. So I guess we uh we'll need a motion to continue this.

A

So, yes, second, so all those in favor all right all right all right! Thank you very much.

A

Getting closer.

A

A

A

I don't know if anybody else noticed it, but I think um isaac did something different to our.

A

Our bookmarks, maybe nick, did it doesn't even know how no okay no worries there. No, but you go to like.

A

You know one reigns avenue and it's just the the page uh that we normally got on when we used to.

B

Have paper the staff reports were sitting yeah, the staff marked this time and then there's another.

A

Range average there should be two of them on there yeah there is yeah. Well, you got yeah, you got the.

I

There you go, that was like a web page. It wasn't like that before. I understand that, but we know why.

C

They were full, which is what we're just saying, yeah all right. Yes, ma'am.

A

Work session requested by port harbor land llc owner for property located at 2 russell street and zero deer street.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of a new freestanding structure.

A

Three to five story: mixed-use buildings, as per plan on file in the planning department,.

A

Said properties are shown on assessor map. 124 is lot 12 map. 118 is lot 28.

A

And map 125 is lot 21 and lie within the character district, 5, downtown overlay and historic districts.

A

Welcome, thank you. We can be without masses, perfect.

M

Hello howdy: what do we got? We are going to try and keep narrowing down where we are on facades. One.

M

Thing we do have, we do have a model that we can fly around if you want to see anything of what we.

M

Presented- and we also have the one that we're continuing to work on since we did this, if we.

M

You'd, like we can either give you a disc or we can log on, and you can give us access.

M

If you want to fly around and see them all, you know see anything on the bomb.

M

So that's available, but we can walk through the presentation first, but then we can ask questions.

A

We'll fly later, yeah anything it's totally up to you, how you'd like to do it all right so today,.

M

We're going to just talk about developments of the facades. Hopefully um we are much further along.

M

Since what you see here, because we're continuing to push this down the path- hopefully not not much,.

M

Further we're just cleaning stuff up um but uh like. Let me see we're gonna see this all right.

M

So uh we can skip the first few pages. Obviously those are our simple standard. If you haven't seen.

M

This before facades we're still, this is where we are now we're still really trying to pick apart.

M

What these pieces are in our current design, so we're always kind of looking back at this sorry.

M

Do you wanna switch? No sorry um same old sheets? Sorry, but we keep thinking. Those are reference.

M

Elements um that we're gonna kind of continue to talk about one thing on this sheet: we want.

M

To maybe we will we're going to come play that inner courtyard on the upper left is something.

M

That we think is important because, as we create that this public spaces inside that building.

M

I'm not sure they made it to the one that you see, but that's where we're going slightly all right.

M

Next sorry keep going um all right, so this is um again the the straightforward thing I know there's.

M

Some things here on this plan. If we can zoom in a little bit there's some things that are a little.

M

Bit uh different here is really we just want to identify where we think the building entrances are.

M

I know that no, this is not. We didn't get a chance to upload the right one, but.

M

Basically, the main entrance for the condo, as you see, is in the beginning, the um car.

M

Entrance is in the middle and the retail and uh other entrances. Are there it's missing on the.

D

Next page, sorry, next page yeah- let's see here this is more than possible. Sorry about that.

M

There we go there, we go, so those are our kind of entrances for the buildings just so we can.

M

And we're developing those as we talk, but I'd like to get some feedback from you guys. I know.

M

That entrance is important. uh We are trying to get it in the right place, but we might not have.

M

It exactly right, so any input you guys have would be very helpful. um We do have issues with as the.

M

Swipe slopes away so we're kind of limited on how much we can do without having to put.

M

In stairs and ramps, so we'd like to hear a little bit about how you guys think about the deer street.

M

Entry or use of that retail um and get some feedback from you on that as well.

A

Building one building one has a little entrance down there next page. Sorry about that. That's well.

A

There's a little triangle: yeah, it's a little guy, um it's more being developed uh as a more of a.

M

Recessed entry right now, but uh we can talk about you've, seen these sheets. These are all kind of.

M

Our concept, we keep kind of trying to pay attention to the different buildings, but.

M

They're, all one, you know family um again we're developing this a little bit further as we go.

M

We did try something here, we'd love to hear uh you guys think it's an idea in regards to yeah.

M

We had a few roofs up and down, but we did want to try a roof screen for the mechanical equipment.

M

In the elevators and all that other stuff and treat it like a roof, it's a bit of it. I saw that.

M

But really well it's the man's heart, but it's above the fifth floor. Obviously it's.

M

The roof, but it is a roof screen not uh in closed space, but we're trying to make it look like it.

M

It belonged here, but you know it's something that may or may not be real enough. Then we want to be.

M

Clear that we know it's not, um but but it does do something different and and create a kind of cent.

M

Center above that high part yeah, the height, the height measurement for the building, only goes to.

A

The middle of that roof, the middle of that route, but it's the middle point at the top of it. Not you.

A

Know the middle but where but that's a man's art if you're enclosing the space. This is just open.

M

Screen more of a parapet, it's a screen like a like an equipment screen that we're turning yeah so.

M

We're trying to trick the code a little bit yeah, so we're keeping that to about eight feet above.

L

Which, I think is uh by the zoning code. It allows for eight feet, so that's kind of what we're trying.

L

To see yeah, the other thing to note on these axons that you see here is a little bit different from.

L

The last presentation we had is we're trying again we took a lot of comments of trying to really.

L

Combine the design a little bit more to make it feel more cohesive, while still.

L

Breaking down the mass, so you can see on both of those corners. We have those kind of.

L

Rounded elements that try to draw you in from both of those ends into the center, which is a.

L

Little bit more traditional across the street from those smaller buildings yeah, so the.

M

Metallic to the masonry exactly in the end, um so that that's the design approach from the larger.

M

Scale so the next sheet, I think we can start talking about what they look like. um This is.

M

Being evolved, it looks uh this is the corner of maple wood. Obviously, in deer,.

M

It's complementing the building across the street to some degree that has, I think you guys have.

M

Mentioned some need for the curve. What we are doing now is creating an inboard kind of a oval.

M

Inner lobby so you'll actually enter on the corner in a recessed piece, but this is really a memory or.

M

A reflection of back to the other side, as walker was just talking about and then the banding kind.

M

Of finds its way filtered through the brick and you have pieces. So it's almost like this.

M

Metal banding goes back and then gets encased in the brick and kind of ties. The two together.

M

It does set back, gives maplewood a little bit more of a presence when you see this and you.

M

Know we actually, we were driving down today down maplewood and we actually need to show a shot.

M

Like that, because it becomes a little bit of an icon because the route the street does bend away.

M

So it'll be kind of nice. If we treat this, we don't want it to be too big, because there's a lot going.

M

On with port walk place building, but I think this really does help balance what's across the street.

M

As well and we're not really knowing what's going to happen directly across the street, but I think.

M

This might be the next. This would be the the two buildings playing off each other to that.

M

Next, third building, um not that we have anything to do with that, is that open that second and.

A

Third floor or those two actual floors, those are floors. Oh, it's just cut right at the floor level,.

L

I've been trying to get these guys to shoot it a little lower, but they don't listen. They don't.

M

Listen, what can you do? Kids, kids, I know so the same, so this is the back side. This is over the.

M

Train tracks again, if you're down a little lower, you get a slightly different. What we're trying.

M

To get with this view here is what we're trying to create is a kind of neighborhood of buildings.

M

Along the back, instead of it feeling like it's one, big mass, this is actually the I think it's.

M

One of the better facades of the building, um just because it has this kind of mix. uh Sorry, I.

M

I'm sorry, I can't push you I'd, love to be able to do this on a zoom screen for you, um but that.

M

That and we're taking this more office building and the flat iron on the other side, as our more.

M

Metal metallic and then, as as we blend through the brick, starts to become more prominent and then the.

M

Center building has more brick and less uh less of that, and this is something we're still battling in.

M

The office about how much more brick, because we are designing it, you know we're trying to.

M

Take some of the cues too, of a building that we actually like is the what number maplewood.

M

The new one 114. we like that building um 111., we like one they like that one we like 114.

M

So whatever the maple one one that I have terrible names things, but the the one thing.

M

We, like is there's some nice detailing in there and what we're we're saying with our building is.

M

It's not terracotta, it's more we're going to do the traditional brick uh all one, but not all one.

M

Color they're all different colors of red, um but we're going to mix those colors of red to make it.

M

Feel like it's one, big piece of red with black, yes similar to the um the metal banding. That's.

L

Starting to carry through and at those kind of details that are appearing in all three of the.

L

Buildings, we're also trying to use the brick in the similar sense, where we've got three kinds.

L

Of brick, but we're blending those three so that, as you, transition from one sort of sub building.

L

One a to 1b: you have that blend between them, so it it looks different, but at the same time,.

L

We're still tying that, together in a cohesive hole between the three buildings on the site,.

M

One thing we did talk about last time and I thought was really interesting- is we were.

M

We were threatened, we were, we were exposed as potentially having false buildings, fake buildings.

M

And I think he's pointing at you and I really appreciated it, because.

M

I really appreciate it because it's one of the concerns that we really have you know, I'm.

M

We're constantly trying to figure out what is the right mix here, and, and so we do want them to feel.

M

Like they're one cohesive site, obviously it's it's all going to be built the same, so we can't hide.

M

From it, but we also want them to not be so massive that they feel like they're over empowering it. So.

M

I think there is this: we're trying to find all those right pieces to blend and mix and all of.

M

A sudden, by the time you're on the other side, you're like oh, I felt like I was in a bunch of.

M

Places but it felt cohesive, um so we're mindful of it. um This is a we can skip this one because.

M

One thing that we are doing in the in the more revised is the buildings are slightly.

M

Angled off of that piece um which which allows this street port walk place to find that curve.

M

Yeah um anyway, uh I just want to say I am very happy with the back of building one well. You know.

A

It is, I mean, we've had three different projects uh on this lot and this is the most successful.

A

Back of the project um you know on the railroad tracks, it just looks really good.

A

You know it the bricks. Do look structural um in this building. Wouldn't you agree david? I love.

A

It yeah the one thing: that's too nice about this plan, which is kind of cool. Is that obviously it's.

M

Important corner the views across the cemetery to the pond are quite spectacular from here.

M

So it's really an amazing element for the developer. Obviously we love that, but then.

M

We're creating this kind of terrace much like the 111 maplewood did, and I think those are.

M

Really nice elements to kind of create that great boulevard that comes into town with recognition.

M

Of what these things are um kind of what you were just looking at, but in a slightly more uh formal.

M

Manner, um these are we're getting ready for our presentation, but these are how we're breaking.

M

It up, we do actually have real wall sections, but these are the material components of that and we.

M

As you can see, when you get to building three we're kind of carrying those same.

M

Things to the other side, but in a slightly different way, building two.

M

Again, what we're trying to do with this roof screen to hide the equipment, hide the elevators.

M

Is have that division but at the same time create a building which is my favorite building.

M

Here in town on main street, what's the one I like calling on the street the national yeah so we're.

M

Trying to pay some homage to it without obviously copying it, but oh the athena amp. No, no, you mean.

D

Okay, I'm terrible, but we do like it. I I mean we're at least I think it's a nice one too.

M

Wait a minute you don't like the athenaeum. Oh my god. I don't know what that's that's. The one.

L

This was actually yes, that was the one that you guys modeled going around yeah. Okay, thanks jeff.

D

Yeah, you could, you could trick me here, I'm very, very easily yeah. Apparently um we one thing we.

M

Have done in this that's a little bit different. We we went from four to three to two to three to four.

M

We actually now have it four three, three, three, four in regards to window bays, it's um just more.

M

Of a rhythmic thing that gives us a little bit more, the two became too. It was not just didn't.

M

Fit especially when we went to the back side because we're trying to hold a purity through.

M

The building, when you get front to back in that courtyard it looks better, I think, but if we have.

M

An opportunity to show you the other model I will, but I know that you guys have rules, so we.

M

Won't um jump into it yet, but if we can, we will um so that that that's this one we go to the next.

M

Few slides this is just the vac. The colors here were a little bit too extreme. We've have fixed.

M

That um we went from that that that balance is better on the two ends and it emerges a.

M

Little bit more in the middle, we we're still in the brick process when this one was shot.

M

And hopefully they're getting fixed better. Can I just just jump in on this one? So go back nick yeah.

B

The roof screen looks weird from this angle. It's not resolved totally not resolved these.

M

Guys were killing me because I I put it out and then they pushed it in and.

M

By the time this was shot, that's where it ended up, but it's not right. Yet we agree with and and.

M

Currently, we now have some recessed balconies. We have a few other things that are happening in this.

M

Thing to create more value for the tenants as well um juliet balconies we have and we can zoom in. We.

M

Have bay windows that what we're trying to do- and I think does this one- have all the sheets.

M

That show the different bays or not, we didn't get it does it. It should have it in there right.

M

Yeah, okay, but we'll get to another sheet, but we're trying to do is create a rhythm.

M

And again, this is another battle inside these great designers, here with me, um is I'd like them.

M

All to be very uniform for cost, as well as clarity, the four different bay types but the same size. But.

M

They're pushing me to squeeze them and change them a little bit, but we are trying to create.

M

Some kind of modularity, but the way it's composed it makes it look like they're different. Ideally.

M

I think something you were just saying on the other one was you want to be able to see the.

M

Process the they're all different sizes, but they they all have the same rhythm. um But I like to.

M

See that um again, we can skip this one. This is the landscape, one parking all on the ground floor. This.

M

Is all being resolved the issue here again? This is getting a arrest a little bit better. We're.

M

Looking to have a two-story condo entrance, so you come in it's two stories. um You have a stair that.

M

Goes up for the condo residence and you can go out onto the top part of the back of the garage.

M

So you have a private that what you that terrace is up on the second floor. So that's for the condo.

M

uh Tenants but it'll be part of this two-story lobby that comes in you're, going to have sweeping.

A

Stairs going up now, that's the that yeah yeah sort of like gone with the wind yeah.

M

That's where we haven't gotten there enough yet, but that the intent is so that you feel the.

M

Flow between the two, but um uh it's not it's, not fully resolved, because we're also trying to meet.

M

The parking count at the same time, so the space above the garage this outdoor space is just great.

M

And and the people that actually have the lowest apartments get 10 foot buffer and then beyond that.

M

Is the shared amenity for the rest of the tenants so and some people get balconies, some people get.

M

Juliets and all that stuff, that's what we're kind of trying to make a value play for it.

M

We have a mix of apartments, uh we're still working on that, so don't use these numbers.

M

As of the bright ones, we got rid of the studios, we're looking at what the proper mix is, and I.

M

Think that's something that the development team is trying to make sure, but it will try and follow.

M

The building lines, which is what makes some of this so hard to get right in this bay, uh you know.

M

That what this is a typical bay for the building, uh sometimes it's a fixed window. Sometimes it's.

M

A juliet, sometimes it's a bay, um the new, the new version is there's also one that is a recessed six.

M

Or seven foot deep balcony so that it, the facade, looks the same the rail's there, but it actually.

M

Then goes deep and somebody can have space inside their apartment without it sticking out.

M

Because we don't think this town, I think you mentioned it too. This town doesn't really.

M

Respond to balconies: well, that's not its thing, but having room outside is really important. So.

M

We're trying to find that bounce um building three: this is the flat iron. We can call it whatever you.

M

Want eventually, um but we're using that, just as a way of determining which one it is, this one is.

M

Almost the same as the building one, but we're trying to deal with this super narrow building.

M

um I think there is an opportunity here for a pretty cool nice retail space that pops.

M

All the way out to the street uh it's going to have a commanding view of the street and the.

M

New intersection that is being proposed and you get to see the water when the sand's, not there.

M

So it should be nice and then um salt sand is salt. Is that it's always there? It's always there.

I

Last week there was none but yeah yeah every once in a while you're going to get right.

M

That's when this is going to be the busiest restaurant in town, oh the salt's gone the.

M

Salt's gone: let's go eat, let's go eat so then there's apartments above these are rentals. It's.

M

A more complicated piece, it's going to be just as expensive as the other ones in regards to.

M

Building it, maybe even more because of this super narrow building and it's going to be hopefully.

M

Something that when you drive in on this back side, market street it'll be oh that's.

M

Cool, but it won't feel too opposing because it's curving away from you in all directions.

M

That's our hope. It's a pure oval. I think, as we talked about last time, pure half oval and I'm.

M

Sticking to it, it's really hard to build in the model, though um this is. This is not as broken up.

M

As the other one, but I don't think it needs to be because of how it comes shooting out towards the.

M

The green street and and the new park that's going to be presented, so it's kind of important that it.

M

Actually has some power pushing down the tracks but again um we're still trying to craft that.

M

And we're going to craft it all the way through and if we have a chance to finish it um with you.

M

Guys so that's um these images here. What does that mean? Well, we want to do it all the way we want. You.

M

To say this is a great thing: go team go and we'll rock and roll shovel in the ground next month.

M

Yeah that doesn't sound like that's how you guys work here. So I think we have a fair amount of.

M

Time to play with, but uh this is the plan of this building, um we have currently moved the lobby more.

M

Towards the the up deer street um and then it's kind of retail all the way past that it drops.

M

Considerably so we're trying to figure out how many stairs and ramps and and if it is just one.

M

Big retail space, that's fed from the lobby and out through or of a restaurant. um But again you can.

M

See these sorry while we're on three too much coffee earlier yeah. Do you mind no go ahead? I.

A

Think it's time to jump in yeah. Stop me! I I like this sort of macian quality of the the curve.

G

Big question: are we dealing with segments of glass? Yes, not a curb class. You can't afford it.

N

No one can afford it, nobody can even get it today I mean if you tried to get it we'd.

M

Be asking germany for another couple of years to get it? Well, I'm just saying it if it's not.

G

A curved class, it's drawn square straight, I'm sorry. I hope it just turns out. I mean.

G

I I get that you know be incredibly expensive, incredibly hard to achieve or get but.

G

A lot of detail is going to have to go into making this pull this off.

M

So yes, what we! What we model here is exactly the five foot pe panes of flat glass.

M

It's not modeled in curved glass and then we're going to trick you and build it in.

M

Square glass: this is how it actually is these panels. Now this is the newer. If I can show you.

M

The other model, the other model, has this the edge and you it's almost impossible to.

M

Tell and yes, you're right, it is going to be very important that that get detailed right.

M

But it's really about the banding. That's going to make the difference, not necessarily the glass.

G

You're going to look up you're, going to see the flat glass and then you're going to see the.

G

The tapered, where the metal curved metal is the flat and if that's not done well, it's gonna. I.

M

Agree and and one the one thing: that's nice, we're doing this big c channel to reflect the.

M

The steel, the good thing about that is that that you're always going to have this big deep recess.

M

As the band wraps around yeah, that's, what's going to hide any of the imperfections we've.

M

Got a building, 50, 60 benny in boston, it's all glass, but those are all straight pieces and you.

M

Look at that building you're sure it's round unless you're standing right in front of it.

M

It's almost it's almost imperceptible, and this is this element- is intended to be one of those.

M

Whoa that was so cool as you're, not always going to stand here. You're going to be far.

M

Enough away to see it you're going to be driving yeah and you actually, when you get and wait well,.

M

You're going to be in the park across the street you're going to be, hopefully you. This starts to.

M

Become one of the places that people can flow through, um you know you, you guys join sure that.

M

We're going to be having all points together, um there's butt clays. um We have uh ssg glazing and.

M

They come together and drop, um it's going to be butt jointed and there's going to be a sealant.

G

Right here yeah, but you have to with this with the the energy requirements. There is a mullion.

M

That's behind it and these all have the mullion in it in the drawing. So you just don't see it.

A

No, no little spider things uh little metallic, spiders, yeah, no spider clips. You can't even.

M

Have that inside your apartment, these actually have mullions. These are the smallest mullions.

M

You can do with this particular design um and that you again, because we're doing such.

M

Kind of heavy banding vertically and horizontally, the the thinner glazing bands disappear.

M

um In our experience and again well, it looks like you've done it before we have yeah. Can we get some.

A

Comments going here, some other comments, anybody else, you're saying I'm sorry, a quick question.

D

Will the railroad really let you do that? Let us do what do you have to fence it or anything like that.

D

On the other side of the tracks, oh we're on the property line. If they, um we recommend that nobody.

M

Cross the tracks yeah 100 percent- yeah- it's right there, but the railroad can fence it if they want.

M

It okay, we don't recommend crossing it, no way, oh no! No! I don't either, but it looks so nice.

D

On the other side, too, that's people will cross it if there's an opportunity right so you'll.

D

You'll probably have a fence, uh we won't. Okay sounds like a good commuter rail station.

A

Reagan's got a hand up, oh uh sure. Well, um I I like the way that you uh incorporated the the flatiron.

J

More on the to tie it in with maplewood. I I like that a lot. This is this guy right here, oh okay,.

J

Good job, um it's a team teammate high five. I like the um the idea of the manchester roof. I think.

J

That's terrific, I'm I'm eager to see how that details out how we fix it, because it's interesting.

D

We've been wanting other roofs other than the flats, so we're trying to find a way around your.

M

Rules to be able to give you what you're looking for. Thank you yeah, that's great.

J

Yeah, I I I liked it last time I like it even more now excellent okay, if we can show you the.

M

Model you like the even further, hopefully don't get carried away. They haven't said we could do.

M

It well, we could, uh you know if it can take 10 minutes or so oh yeah he's ready to go, but let's.

A

Just see if we have a lot more reagan had her hand up you, don't care margo, I'll switch these away.

B

No, I again, I think, like everybody else, this is um really improving um going in in a very good.

B

Direction um yeah, I I appreciate maplewood avenue. I almost wonder if even that backside.

B

Should have a little bit of a curve too so that it again it's a great looking backside of the.

B

Building but we still don't really want it to be a back of the build like very like you know,.

M

Agreed, especially with the muse, what we're trying to do with the muse to bring people in there so.

B

So um I my only concern looking at all of this is as a whole and again I totally agree.

B

With martin, with not creating phony facades on the whole thing and making it look different.

B

But now I almost feel like it's almost too uniform and it's very much.

B

Looking like a very large warehouse, like I think last time, my comment was that it's very.

B

Boston, looking like, I feel like there are a lot of these type of buildings in boston where they were.

B

Big old warehouses that have been converted, I mean like lawrence and all that other stuff and the.

M

Mill, towns and I mean they're everywhere, right april, we love haverhill. We have a.

B

Building there that you might not actually recognize, even even in boston proper um but.

B

It's almost so big and open and um stacked that my first impression from looking at the model.

B

From far away is that it almost even looks like a parking garage just because it's got.

B

It's it's just that structure that is so visible that you know that you've got the.

B

Very much just the structure. I love that there's tons of glass. um I think it's.

B

Great, um but I wonder if some of these sections are some one of the buildings or you know maybe.

B

The was it building three, maybe some of that has a little bit less glass and a little bit.

B

More masonry, just to kind of give the three different buildings a little bit more variation.

B

So yeah I might win that battle. We've been battling back and forth about.

M

Even bloorik or more breaker right, I I appreciate that yeah and- and it's.

B

Because what you'll end up seeing if these are all residential is a lot of curtain.

M

Yeah, um if people feel that they need to hide, but you know the the there there's a I hear.

M

I hear you're saying I I mean, but um we we just finished a building. That's all glass in haverhill.

M

um And people are it, you can't tell people love having their windows open. It's full people.

M

Are just and you don't when you look up in the building, you don't see anybody. You just see the.

I

Exercise, bicycles, no, actually it's dude. The view is too good. uh They put that it's another part of.

M

The building, but you know, but I hear what you're saying I think that you know this. This is that.

M

Kind of mix between you, you know you asked the other uh project about the style. This is you know.

M

I was gonna, say portsmouth, but it is this area right. It is haverhill, it is.

M

Lawrence, it's, it is some of the waterfront warehouses, it's this character. This is what.

M

This is, I mean these towns were this. You have some nicer examples when you get into main street, but.

M

This is trying to play I'm a modern piece of this part of new england. um I don't, I don't think we.

M

Want to hide from it we're doing it in a modern way, but we're also respecting some of the new or.

M

Modern pieces, when I say I like 111: it's because that's done some nice things so we're implementing.

M

The brick and the metal to kind of give that same mix. I I do hear what you're saying, though it is.

M

We have to be mindful of how that feels. We need some other comments from the board david.

A

Okay margo's up, so um I think that the office building is turning out to be very successful.

E

And the flatiron building the question I have on that is the the metal part comes back as.

E

Far as the retail and there's the rental lobby, am I delineating that in the right place.

D

Yeah, the metal weaves its way all the way through all of the buildings, the big last part. Yes, it.

M

It actually doesn't go to the lobby. It's the big glass part is really just the oval. Then it breaks.

M

And it's um so it's it's here! Yeah, it's just the straight oval is the only glass. Then we go to a a.

M

Heavy iron spot, brick, which is the infill, and then it goes an iron spot and mix brick of red and then.

M

We go to more red and no iron spots, so we're kind of trying to use the brick is also an element that.

M

Ties the buildings together, okay, so my this is what I did yeah. I cut it um even even less.

M

Even here that is all brick in here. Okay, you see how that goes. It's a we're using a really dark.

E

So there's only three, only three bays, that's all three and a half, and then it goes around to three.

M

And a half on there right exactly they're all by the way the glass doesn't really change as we move.

M

Around the building, it's just one is brick: we go to metal, then the brick and the metal so we're.

M

Really trying to expose as much brick this one, it has a two foot, six banding of metal when you get.

M

To the end, everything else is a five foot band of brick, currently, okay, the reason I drew this line.

E

Is because I just felt because it was really long-looking disproportionate yeah. Thank you.

E

That's the right word um and then he's made me take some of the banding out anyway.

E

This very blunt, very, very tall mass, even though it's skinny it, it's really tall here.

E

And I wondered if you had thought about pulling that back in some way. No, I'm not expecting no, no.

M

We did try it out and we can show you the studies if next time, if you'd like to see him it, what it's.

M

What happens with that and and the reason that we we stuck with it is this? Is you know it's a.

M

Powerful piece, I agree with you. um Unfortunately, they kept shooting from above which, when we shoot.

M

From the street, it has a very cool effect. That is where everyone in the world is going to see it. No.

M

One's going to see it up here where the drone is, it actually starts creating a much sharper.

M

Angle for the the the brim, when you actually look at it from where you're going to see it.

E

Well I'll look forward to seeing it then, um hopefully paul can put it up on the screen for you.

M

He can't go straight, oh you can't he's over there for power. No he's he's on the website. Can you let.

C

Him in okay, so all right! Sorry about that, all right! No, more coffee, no more coffee! For you!.

E

Yeah, I agree david. We have somebody, oh I'm, sorry, margot yeah, building two. Yes, that's.

E

Where I've got all of my problems? Okay, you know it. The back looks like a hodgepodge of.

E

Stuff that can't decide what it looks like the the lower section down here that screens the parking.

E

I hope you're thinking about some way of making this into public art or.

E

Carved concrete cast pieces, it's a it's! A metal screen that we're going to have plants grow.

M

Through so it actually looks like a green trellis, so it's open to the it's an open garage. It doesn't.

M

It's not enclosed and the intent here is to grow uh plants up through it. We just haven't modeled. It.

M

For that yet, and what we've done is just create big openings in it to make it feel like they're,.

M

Windows inside of a green wall- okay, that's the intent! The next time you show this. Would you.

E

Either fade these out or remove them, so we can see the whole facade all the way down.

I

To the bottom and I'm sorry, the odd fellow's little thing isn't working for me. This mansard.

E

I like that, you are trying to do something to change the the roofline, but I would think if you.

E

Want to pull from something that's traditionally portsmouth think about wrought iron wrought iron.

M

Is that a building, or is that? No, it's not iron, as in blacksmith, we've got some amazing blacksmiths.

E

You could make some big raked. Oh, I assumed that would be really cool um and there's something.

E

About the the thinness of the brick and the large of the windows, that brings a modern element to.

E

This, but for me it somehow isn't looking in the right proportions for a brick building: okay, yeah.

M

I I I I these are all very uh good points. I've made the same ones as we're developing these.

M

um We are going to continue to make sure that by the time you see this in a couple of weeks.

M

It will have a lot more evolution. We have more david, sir. Thank you very much, mr chairman.

I

I I enjoy the simplicity that you engaged the the prow end down by the salt water, uh that it's not.

I

Busy it's it's got it's a lot, it's a big thing, but I it is largely simplicity, elements repeating.

I

I like the way that you mirrored that, on the other side of the building using the.

I

Same materials- and that gives me a sense of the composition of the project, one end to the other.

I

I also really appreciate the fact that you engaged that curved glazed end on the maplewood side, with.

I

The building in a very rectilinear regular manner, rather than that, a skewed thing from the previous.

I

So I really enjoyed that that so bracket's great to me brackets are great on this thing. um I I've.

I

Been excited by the centerpiece on building two, um I have a couple of things that knit in with.

I

It I'm not certain that the roof structure that you've got here is exactly what you're going to.

I

End up with I got that, but I like the idea that it creates an opportunity for its own cornice.

I

And it gives a great sense of mass to that center. That piece of the building I get one other problem.

I

And then it's going to come back to this one other problem is I'm wondering and I can't decide.

I

Maybe it's the maybe I haven't wrapped my head around the scale of this yet, but these multiple.

I

Unit glazing openings are not a traditional form in our town. Yes, they show up from time to time.

I

But an awful lot of our buildings have single windows of relatively normal size, uh human size.

I

That I have headers and sills to them, and- and these are these are very reminiscent of the.

I

Post and lentil uh factory buildings from the turn of the last century, right um and.

I

And I'm sure that there's a reason for that, but I'm not certain that I'm in on that on this.

I

At the scale of this, when we look at the whole of this thing from one end to the other.

I

The way that you've got these broken up into these massive windows, but they look in scale.

I

I think that's a I mean, I think it's terrific, what you've accomplished, but I'm not sure that I'm all.

I

That comfortable with all of these windows or with these windows being of such large compositions.

I

And I wonder so, the word is all of them. Is there a way to bring this down so that there are a few.

I

That are not that way, yeah that this is more not so much the exception to the rule, but but that.

I

There's a balance between what I would consider to be a traditional window and, and these things.

I

The size of garage, double garage doors, 15 feet, pardon 15, feet yeah. um So that being said, I think.

I

You can have the most trouble doing something like that with this centerpiece building two.

I

And wondering because it's made of five pieces I'll use this hand it's made of five pieces, um I'm.

I

Wondering if you could move the center piece from the second piece into the middle of the thing and.

I

Then allow for a little bit of a play of flanking what I would think of as normal sized windows yep.

I

Otherwise, I'm I was excited when I opened this up and I went through it. My first passenger.

I

This thing was like there's no scheme two in this thing, because it doesn't need one you're.

I

Really on a track here, I'm I'm enjoying where you're going I'm looking forward to this yeah. I.

M

Think we're on a track, because if, if, if we're not doing this right, I think you guys have shaped this.

M

I do appreciate the centerpiece billy you you and, and we're really wanting to spend some time.

M

Crafting that even further, but we do want to actually continue on the process. I agree that.

M

That piece in this scenario a couple of weeks ago and even today we're still needing that's going to.

M

Be the most important piece of that that building for sure um getting it right not having the screen.

M

It it's going to have to be a mix of a few things in town that are going to make more sense to you.

M

Guys, but uh it is it, it is an important piece. The challenge here is we're at the peak of this.

M

Hill, we're recrafting all the grading to make that piece feel like it's something.

M

And then the building disappears on the side, so we're really having a fun time trying to make.

M

That work uh so that it becomes something that is iconic enough. I've got just a few more comments.

A

And then um we'll try and get you guys set up so that we can watch your 3d model starting off on.

A

Maplewood avenue someone said that I agree with david about the curved grass glass on both ends.

A

It really works for the project, maybe going around uh maple wood um on the other side on the.

A

Railroad tracks who said that yeah somebody, you reagan's, had it right there. She jumps right out.

M

It might be a slightly different curve. Maybe we'll have three different might be a slightly.

A

Different curve it'll be a more tight curve. Yeah. Maybe that's where we'll spend the money on round.

M

Glass yeah, oh no, I'm just kidding it isn't right, so, basically building one. That would be my only.

A

Comment on building one, I'm I'm very pleased with that. I agree with david that it's too much.

A

Of the glazing it does, you know, go back to factories and when I was talking about.

A

Haverhill, I was talking about the main street in haverhill, which has all of these beautiful.

A

Fronts of these shoe factories, they all were they're all four and five stories. High.

A

And they're all classic or boats or one of them is even marble. And then you look down and they're.

A

About 900 feet long brick with punched window openings, that's it they're! Absolutely amazing!.

A

um So I like what you've done with this center piece the entry to um building two. uh I agree.

A

The roof needs lots of work, it really looks fake. I mean it just is it's like a mcdonald's.

A

Roof what we used to call mcdonald's roof that they stick on every storefront yeah.

A

But you're going in the right direction with that and I like, if you are indeed talking about.

A

A two-story entryway that I think that is is going to make it, and, unlike david, I think that that is.

A

The location uh right there at that corner and you've got that nice little park in the front, but.

A

um If you could take one of the buildings going down to the left and have that one brick with more.

A

Conventional window openings in it, and so those apartments will just have conventional windows.

A

And then you can, you know, have your other windows, but you know break it up somewhat. um I, uh let's.

A

I don't really have any problem with the flat iron building. I don't have a problem with the.

A

Height of it either the mass of it. I think it's successful, I'm in the wrong section now, but.

A

I I like the back of uh building two, it's on the railroad tracks, but um what you were talking.

A

About with the screening, I know that that uh metal screening you'll eventually have to bring a sample.

A

Of that of what you're going to be using for that, but um we're doing uh uh we're using some of that.

M

Material yeah for a roof screen the covering of big garage building in it and as well as your.

A

Railings and stuff it looks like a glass rail. You have up there on that um which one uh yeah it.

M

It it might we're toying with either uh that rail, actually that's a cable rail. The glass is just too.

M

Dirty for something like that, it's just a cable rail, the other option- is just carry that screen.

M

Up a little higher and that would become the edge. You know black, a black rail of some sort, yeah.

A

So those are my comments. I I agree with the comments that people said that you are going.

A

In the right direction, so I feel fine with this, so let's try to get this thing running. Thank you. Can.

G

I join us well, you've already had your comments. No, no, no he's been quiet. You've been waiting only one.

A

Comment no go ahead. Martin! All right! Thank you. I knew you'd. Let me um can't help it you. It is.

G

It is coming into harmony as opposed to what it was before and again. You've already heard.

G

Let's, let's not do the visual tricks with this roof, one on that center piece on building two.

G

um Anyway, you've already admitted this is a work in progress. I still see some problems with.

G

I'm looking at am I looking at brown, brick, red brick, yellow, brick yeah, so the intent.

M

Here, because there's so many is we're looking to have three brick and then depending upon what.

M

Building we're in we're going to mix them so we're going to go from the darker iron spot on the ends.

M

And slowly fade in for each one of the buildings, um a composition that will and.

M

For each one of these, we're going to do mock-up, boards and you'll guys will all be able to.

M

You see it, but each one will be a mock-up board of the mix and some will be. But this one that you're.

M

Looking at, if you're looking at page 26, it's a tough one, because those weren't fully fleshed out.

M

uh Three weeks ago and we're we're we're a little bit further along now, where we're trying to make.

M

It a little bit more of a nice gradient um so that all of a sudden you see that and by the.

M

Time you get to one building you're like you, you see the relationship, but it's a different.

M

Building, I would rather, you didn't do that at all, because that to me just talks about a visual trick.

G

And to make this seem like it's not one building, it is one building and let's get comfortable with.

G

The idea that it's one building and that um you know it's one, building with with multiple.

G

You know presentations of it and wings and a center and wings and like that to me that's.

G

Just a visual trick, but by using different bricks and I and different grout colors and.

G

I I would hope you'd avoid doing that. um I, like the bookend features of the two ends. I.

G

Would prefer that you see some of that in the middle in building two to tie it all together.

G

What else I don't I like the big chicago style windows, I think I think they're great you've.

G

Got this exposed steel sections uh go with the big glass, the punch openings again. That's just.

G

Throwing another element into this complex to make it seem like these were built at different times.

G

I think you've come a long way and it's it's improving and- and I I think, the the fact that.

G

The base is one continuous datum along all three buildings. This is great and um those are.

G

My comments, yeah okay, is that it yeah be sure no I'll I'll I'll. Try it. Okay, just repeat everything:.

G

No, let's, uh let's see what we're ready, yeah you booked, let's get crashed again.

L

Well, I'll get it um well, unfortunately, yeah we're going to have to go to uh the public now and.

A

So if anybody out there in the public would like to speak, please come up give your name and address.

N

So nice, one person from the public shows up every once in a while. My name is elizabeth bradder.

N

Property owner 159 mcdonald street nick are you able to bring us to the picture that has the.

N

Angle of the building b, and it shows you the ends, it shows the whole thing from um the port. No, the.

N

Front side was one of the first ones you showed it shows all three buildings yeah the axon and metric.

N

That one stop go back.

N

Okay, so what I want to point out is that the massive six-story high front of the building.

N

Is directly across from the hill, and it makes the hill look tiny and it makes that building.

N

Look ten times bigger than what it really is. um I understood all of you to say that that top.

N

Thing needs some work, but my concern is is how that looks with those historic buildings across.

N

From it now this is all brick, I don't know if you could do something that would tie you in.

N

Tie this building into the hill in any way shape or form, but that is a whole historic area.

N

This is the historic district and that building is massive. It's a 40, 000 square foot, building.

N

It really needs to have something that ties it in and brings it down in mass. The other thing is.

N

Too is if you look to the left, where the little alleyway is that's going to be the public space.

N

It's not very big and it could be bigger if that building in building b was made a little bit.

N

Shorter, the parking garage is 40 000 square feet and the next level up is also 40 000 square feet.

N

So if that was moved over a little bit, that would be a really nice public area.

N

So those are my two comments. The rest are in my letters, a letter, but that was one of the biggest.

N

Concerns for me is that that's directly across from the hill. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

A

Is there anyone else that would like to speak about this project.

A

And are you able to see anybody online or not? No, anyone will notice anyone online hang on.

C

We're saying next meeting we'll get this into our own 3d model, which is more stable, yeah.

D

And actually will work. Yeah. Ours is stable. 3D, we have it, we have it as a flash drive. You can plug.

M

It into your computer, you can fly around, but it the the the intent here was just to kind of.

M

Show where we were progressing because you know there's this delay, but we want to actually push.

M

Things along, oh well, we tried it was up for a second, but that was over so you've heard some.

A

Disparate opinions here concerning some windows being more conventional standard. Some windows.

A

Following the chicago route, which is 1100 miles from here,.

A

You've heard opinions on the size of the structures and you've heard some opinions that are.

A

Very favorable to this, the entryways should be important, and so I think that uh you know you.

A

Probably got this recorded or can take back him more than I can give you right now, but um you are.

A

Going to come back next month, we'd love to yeah we'd love to show you the the piece that we're.

M

Working on so that'll be exciting. uh You know the the the challenge that obviously we all have is.

M

Is things like height uh things like entries, uh uh we appreciate the way that we're banding.

M

This and that you guys are appreciative of that. I think if we are going to play with windows, it.

M

Should be in that entry piece, um some composition of that entry piece that brings you uh it it. You.

M

May not or not like that, but we and I and I think the roof doesn't actually have to be the.

M

Man's heart, it could be something that represents something of that time, using the same material. We.

M

Have to think I have to think through that one yeah um to because traditionally, if, if anything.

M

We'd have to put a just a state, a straight screen up. um We, we do very nice screens on our buildings.

M

But I'd rather do something: that's more in keeping you've got it now. If I can share my screen, can we.

M

Try one more time before yeah: let's go, though five seconds. Sorry! No, let's see if we have a chance.

M

Sorry about the delay on this.

M

If it crashes you've had it paul yeah, that's right! It's the only way you can get things done.

C

uh Paul clark right, correct, you're, you're in it. uh You cannot share a screen while other. Oh, I got a.

C

Shot, I gotta stop sharing right go ahead so which one are you showing paul uh the current one.

M

So this is where we're currently trending, which may not be right. Actually, this might not be.

M

Showing up as well, I I so now what we have on that center piece is really just the the.

M

The workings of creating something a little bit more, uh I think, with after this one we're going.

M

To look at potentially creating something in that center piece. That's not so bland.

M

And open be careful about how quickly you move their paw, I'm working on it. Yes, let's edit the.

L

Three bays across with four bays: capping, yeah um well extra domra helps it's the one that was.

M

Supposed to be in the other model, but, and that actually is more like what you have in town.

M

But I I think, there's some cornices and stuff that are still not in this. These are our working models.

M

So bear with us, I didn't I was the this is not actually um did you stay there for a second paul.

L

Yeah, the one thing that's kind of interesting here and I think brooks- has been leading us there.

L

As well and to your comment too, is it you know, is there the opportunity to.

L

Stick with the rhythms that we're working with with these kind of bay openings but increase.

L

The width of the brick piers as you get closer towards the center to make it feel more like a.

L

Solid opening, while still kind of maintaining the language that we're starting to talk about with.

L

These bay openings per you know, do you think this is a little bit more successful in that center.

L

Where you see those piers are much wider and then you sort of transition from maybe seven and a half.

L

Feet to five to two and a half when you get to the end, so that way there is more brick and there is.

L

Less glass but we're still keeping it's actually the same amount of glass just more brick,.

L

And so the glass looks like it's smaller because you got more brick. It's a trick that we're trying.

M

To implement the the cornice heights are a little off on this, because we haven't fully flushed. It.

M

Yet but you can see that that that roof is just the front screen. It no longer goes to the back.

M

Like I think your concern was it kind of comes down quickly and creates a slightly false front.

M

But it does hide all the equipment, so I'd rather see I mean you guys can tell, but you can tell.

M

Whether you like, can you go down to the street, I'm I'm always nervous about floating paul yep until.

M

You so so this is kind of the sense of what it should feel like when you're walking around town.

M

um And maybe you know you can walk down deer street towards the muse towards the news. Sorry.

M

um And you know there you go, we think we can have some retail here at this point, but at a.

M

Certain point: you can see the gray we're going to be needing to put some steps in. So we it's a real.

M

Challenge of how much of that retail, we can really push out, because once we get down here to the muse.

M

We're going to have a kind of a nice little landscape environment, but this is going to.

M

Be the feel and really pull people into the north part of town. Hopefully, in this model somebody you.

M

Mentioned we have widened this another five feet because we found some additional square footage.

M

Which, I think was really nice, so this is actually a little bit wider than we have proposed to the.

M

Before and then the office building and people see look how happy they are.

M

But we hope that maybe people can start using this from the office building, maybe that ground.

M

Floor has some component that flows out onto this and just walk on down that wall. Those.

A

Are the same light fixtures that we were just presented with the other project? Aren't they that.

A

Those uh vertical tubes yeah- I don't know if we're there yet, but that's what we have in this model.

M

Right now, but we're still trying to play that out, except they had them crossing each other. So.

A

Oddly yeah, I'm not satisfied, we put them in a project, but it was more of a modern. Can you.

M

There we are on the tracks there you're trying. Oh you shouldn't, do that paul, don't cross the.

M

Track, um but can you go to the right a little bit, nope, sorry to the right yeah. You can see how no I.

M

Want to look down the muse, I just want to explain one one last thing: we're trying to see how now the.

M

Building is more angled. It's about a it's a seven degree angle that then, when you get to port park.

M

Place becomes flat and then there's another sun. So this is going to feel like it flows down into town.

M

It's not going to be a static straight piece. I think that should make a real difference in.

M

Regards to how you do- and this is all because of the way you guys have pushed us around.

M

And I think it made it much better. These are the recess balconies that paul's built. Maybe you can.

M

Come up a little bit higher and just show that this is another approach that we're trying to you.

M

Know just go out of the off the ground, um we're trying to look at how, without doing balconies.

M

We can give that sense of these more and crime, trying to create a little bit more liveliness.

M

Along that edge, so people can have apartments that actually flow out onto this, but it still keeps.

M

The rhythm, you still have all that feeling and one of the reasons for having such big openings.

M

Is because of that, so we can do it that way. um That's just one technique that we're trying to.

M

Do and if you go to the inner part of the building, uh the inner courtyard.

M

You can kind of see we're trying to create. We have two balconies that are they didn't get wrapped yet.

M

But the intent here would be, the metal would find its way around those two but really start.

M

To give the people that are gonna own apartments here, some outdoor space- I mean that's really the.

M

Key but also be able to use this upper deck, and this is what this will kind of feel like. So I.

M

I we're not trying to make the brick look fake, but we are trying to make it blend, but also not.

M

Feel like you're against the one big huge wall of repetition um out here and then, if you look.

M

Out over the street, you can kind of see the train tracks uh what's floating out there. Those are our.

M

Window, but um this is another brick building which eventually, we would want to model, but.

M

It's kind of a cool little la that eventually, when you guys can finally get rid of that train.

M

I'll have it as a public walk space, and this is I mean, I'm envisioning your future here, where.

M

This is going to be a great walk place for people, even with the train. The the roadway that'd be a.

A

Monorail, well, no, I mean, but what the what the, what the development team is is recommending it. You.

M

Know we've got a driveway, but that's we're going to treat it like it's a really nice place to walk.

M

And it can connect all the way down to the water following the train tracks to the new park. That's.

M

Being proposed, so there is some nice things and then this becomes kind of an edge to it.

M

And then maybe we go to the the flat iron. I know I'm talking so much. I apologize um I'll go to the.

M

Nose yeah and go to the ground so that this is the new park go to the park.

M

Okay, so this is your park, your train. This is what the development team is proposing.

M

Yes, uh as well as the rotunda and the roundabout and there's the train, of course, he's.

M

He shouldn't be doing it at night. Of course, they should should be doing their work during.

M

The day but anyway, so this is what it would feel like when you're kind of coming by. But you know.

M

People talk about the scale and stuff these buildings next door. The the hotel is very big.

M

um The other buildings there's there's buildings, are you guys have in front of you that are going.

M

To be on the other side of this, that are just as big as this: um the hotel that you were just.

M

Talking about is bigger than this, so this is going to be kind of that piece having it this scale.

M

It can't be smaller if it's any smaller it'll all of a sudden disappear, but it go go down. Green.

M

Street maybe and fix the light, maybe a little bit, but this is where the restaurant potentially could.

M

Be um it could be kind of a nice experience, and you know this is where the the design is going.

M

I do I do we're. I am concerned about your thought about this brick not being too harmonious, but what.

M

We're trying to do is weave this. The the band is the same band that carries through and when.

M

We want more brick, we just infill the band with brick um again much like 111 maplewood did with.

M

Terracotta we can kind of we're starting to kind of weave it weave it through and then, when you get.

M

To the other buildings, and it comes and pops in when we have bay windows, and it is one actually.

M

All three buildings are the same: building the way we're designing it, but everyone feels a little bit.

M

Different and then when you're at each building, it doesn't feel like it's like this. It's like, oh.

M

I'm in another piece of that building, they're wings, but not in the formal sense, I think, is.

M

What we're trying to get at some are some are tell me when I should shut up. um Some are.

A

uh One thing I would say if, if um the city has all of those buildings that you were talking about.

A

Trying to get in you know, and that would you know it's going to be trouble for you to get.

A

Those in and color them in and cost money, but if you can give this to nick so that he can put it in.

L

Yeah we'll set that up for next time, yeah yeah. Absolutely then we'll have it yeah it. This is a.

M

The revit endscape software, but we can definitely do it in your model. We, the problem, is the model.

M

Is it doesn't translate well into revit and revit is the standard the world standard.

M

But that's neither again or there but we'd love to be able to figure out how to get it. um Yeah.

M

One question why we have it uh stop go back. You see how we have these get some light on.

M

That quarter these um little balconies can I get a reading? Can we get a reading? Does it make sense? Do.

M

You like it, do you hate it? Where are we with those where's, the sunlight, that's obviously fantastic.

M

And they're not really juliettes they're, just big windows that open because they're 18 inches off.

M

The ground, so then you have a railing out and then we have a railing as well, but it kind of adds a.

M

Little bit of decoration in character, but when you really do want to come outside, we have these kind.

M

Of recesses, um which add value, I mean the whole idea here is to make sure that this has value, but.

M

It this doesn't feel like it's a weird building and it's a really weird [ __ ] building this piece.

M

um Anyway and then thank you for presenting your weird building to us, it is a weird site, all right.

M

I can see that that's where we are, I'm really glad you were able to see it where we've kind of.

D

Come from a lot better um and uh if we can present like this next time, we will as well.

M

As with obviously the the package, would you like a motion to continue to next month? Yes,.

D

Do we do we anybody need time? Let's see, we've got monsters.

C

You got another hour and a half one market square. That's a biggie! Okay! So we're gonna take a five.

A

Or ten minute break we'll be right back. Are you taking a break? Yes great? Well, we've got.

A

Okay: this is a work session requested by one market square llc, recording in progress.

A

That's me: keep going what was that recording.

A

Okay, I'm sorry uh owner for property located at one congress street and zero high street.

A

Wherein permission is required to allow renovations to an existing structure, repair.

A

And upgrade building facades along congress and high street and new construction to an existing.

A

Structure, replace rear, shed editions with the new four to five story edition. As for plans on file in.

A

The planning department said property is shown on assessor map 117 as lot 14 and 15 lies within the.

A

Character: district 4 character, district 5, downtown overlay and historic districts; okay, who's here.

A

To make the presentation good evening, tracy kozak with archive architects here with mark mcnabb from.

O

Mcnab properties representing one market square llc and terrence parker, with tara, firmer firma.

O

Landscape architecture, all right: this is our second work session. Thank you for having us.

O

Back, we have come with our concept idea. Last month we talked about just overall massing.

O

uh And scale, and as we mentioned, this is a renovation to the existing buildings on congress.

O

Street and high street with a new addition on the back, which is primarily a surface parking.

O

Lot there are some smaller shed additions on the back, which we are proposing to remove.

O

um So with that, we can walk through our presentation and the. I think we talked a.

O

Little bit about this last time, the overarching goal of the project is, is not just this site, but.

O

It's connecting the greater neighborhood uh with improving, alleyways and um really creating new and.

O

Enhancing existing connections between public spaces, so we're looking to connect essentially.

O

The mcintyre to the worth lot, potentially when working with the city on a greater.

O

Endeavor tonight we're really just going to focus on our property, but I want you to have the kind of.

O

Overall background of this greater vision, we have to connect different parts of the city through.

O

These smaller secondary pedestrian ways, not the big traffic ways, but these pathways that the.

O

Pedestrians meander through to discover our city. We talked a lot about that last time, so I will.

O

Keep moving along and on this particular site.

O

It really struck us how it is truly anchored by the north church and the steeple and how they're.

O

Time and time again, there's so many photographs and people stopping to look.

O

At the end of high street at lad, where the parking garage entry is you look down, high street frames.

O

The north church, so perfectly it's the only place in the city where you can get a long view.

O

Direct at the front of the church, so it's a really special place. It dominates. It dominates the street.

O

The building on the corner of high and conquer street is fairly unique, downtown. It is about.

O

The turn of the last century, it is somewhat of a um edwardian, uh late, victorian style.

O

Somewhat some strange mix of romanesque and gothic and it's a mix of brick and brown stone and.

O

Terracotta with some pretty cool detailing, which we'll talk a little bit about, but one of the other.

O

Interesting things about this site is the contrast between that heavy heavy brick masonry and carved.

O

Wood and then the kind of the light and rough rough industrial filigree of the fire escapes.

O

And the ladders- um and there are some other elements in the site on the site around it.

O

That you find even on lad street in that hidden courtyard, with all the spiral, staircases and.

O

Even the brand new elevator tower of glass that they built there, the reflections that.

O

That you see, as you pass these elements of the site that might reflect something.

O

Around the corner, so we want to draw people in the alleys and have them turn the corner.

O

The next two pages are um the next three pages: are the existing building uh 204, that's the site.

O

Some of the views I talked about on the lower left is the iconic steeple and uh framed and.

O

Reflected so perfectly down high street uh the middle picture on the bottom is that could be a.

O

Christmas card look um yeah, it's amazing! It's it's like yeah. It was put there on purpose, I'm sure.

O

um In the middle, the bottom picture, on the middle that I took that at around eight o'clock in the.

O

Morning a couple weeks ago, and it's just amazing to see how the sun plays these shadows, that.

O

Move across these facades and it animates it and it you can really kind of tell what time of day.

O

It is just by looking at the building. It's almost like, like the building acts as its own uh sundial.

O

And then, as you turn the corner on that same theme, if you look at.

O

The details on one congress, we have the terracotta medallions in the gables of.

O

The dormers and the ones that face east are the lotus blossom that opens at dawn. It's a.

O

Symbol that was used somewhat in victorian times to symbolize the passing of time and the.

O

The ability to prevail over a light over darkness, so the lotus was a symbol of light and purity.

O

That grew out of the mud of the swamp, so it opens at dawn facing east and the medallion.

O

That faces south or west is closed, so you can look at the building and see what time it is.

O

So to speak through this symbolism in the building, similarly 18 high street, the pink.

O

Building with the arch top has a lot of heavy carved wood in need of repair. A lot of this is.

O

In need of some pretty serious restoration uh and the next page, um these are the metal elements that.

O

You find walking along high street. Some of them are old, some of them are fairly new. There's some.

O

Great peter happening iron work that playfully pulls off of the the fire escapes the fire.

O

Escapes are not original to the building, but they've been there a long time and and they've.

O

Become a part of the landscape, the clock on the steeple uh really relates.

O

To to the forms that you see on on high street in the metal work, it all ties together. Pretty nice.

O

And then those historic photos we saw these last time. I found a new one on the bottom left. That's.

O

Actually, a hand-drawn pencil rendering- and it looks like it's original to when the building is.

O

Built but I don't know that for sure, there's no date that I can read, but it's the only one that.

O

Shows some of the details that are missing on the old photos so um particularly on the dormers. They.

O

Actually had some finials on on the brick dormers that we'd like to restore and there's a pretty.

O

Clear understanding of the storefronts on congress street that we're going to restore as well.

O

One thing we didn't notice on uh three conga street, which is the building to the left, is that.

O

That storefront, when it was origin it was built um the photo on the top middle shows that building is.

O

Older than the brick building on the corner and when it was originally built, it had this kind of.

O

Thin toothpicky wooden storefront with a center door, and then the new building was built on the.

O

Corner in brick, and they replaced that with this heavy cast iron storefront, which is shown in the.

O

On the two images on the left, that's the one we're going to try to rebuild off of in that.

O

Drawing the entrance in in those in that, in that time frame, which was about 1910, the entrance door.

O

The original entrance door is more to the left. It's currently on the right.

O

And uh when we get into our proposed design, we can talk about how how those entrances have shifted.

A

It looks like that cast iron header or whatever the lintel over the first floor, the storefront.

A

That's new, I mean that's newer, um well new, as of 1905 knew, the original building was um 1870. I.

O

Believe and don't see it in that center photograph, you don't see now you don't see a door on the.

A

Right hand, side, I believe, the doors on the left when they first built it and the storefront. It was.

O

Very thin skinny pieces, it looked like wood, there was not much to it. It wasn't particularly nice.

O

Fancy or interesting, and I think, when their neighbor built something fancy, they.

O

Wanted to upgrade, and that's when they put in the cast iron, it looks like the door is.

B

Still there around the stick, the door is still there, but they removed the architrave in those.

O

Bracket hood things those are gone, but but the cast iron pilesters without the hat is still there.

O

So um yeah at least the one on the right, the one on the left will need to be replaced on the lower.

O

Right just one more thing on this old page so that same building it originally had three single.

O

Windows across in about 1940, they replaced it with two pairs of french casements with a stained glass.

O

Transom across the top, it was a church. At one time. Then it became a chinese restaurant.

O

And then some print shops and things like that, so that building has evolved with a.

O

Few different iterations it had heavy coining uh trim on the top. It looked really different.

O

Okay yeah so we'd like to bring at least some of that back um existing survey, existing plan.

O

Site plan: the next page is the demolition pan uh plan, the back l's.

O

Jumble of shapes we did have that 3d laser cloud scanned uh inside and out so we'll have that for.

O

Record for the afternoon full 3d detail coming the way of the world huh standard procedure. All.

O

Right um roof plan of the proposed uh addition on the parking lot um where we are. This probably is.

O

Not going to be in the scope of your review tonight, but we are working with the city.

O

To develop the greater alleyways and whatnot, but we've also discussed a skyway bridge connecting to.

O

The garage that won't actually be part of this review, but we want to show it just so. You know.

O

Where we might be heading in the future, because it plays into how we're designing this building.

O

The next page is the first floor at street level.

O

Not much to say on this, I think it's easier to look at the three-day trunks. There's one.

O

Layer level of parking below ground uh the bottom floor will be retail, restaurant and offices above.

O

The whole site, the next stage, is the below ground parking on 2 15, and we are already.

O

On the landscape plan, so I will turn it over to terrance to talk a little bit about the.

O

The site elements and how those relate to our building- hey everybody, um so this is uh this is.

P

A master plan of what it could look like once the team works with the city to further. um You know.

P

Change high street and maybe lad street, so we're not actually proposing all of this. It's just the.

P

Material, that's within the property line, and the property line goes over to where the corner of.

P

Into the just beyond the corner of the newbury, so you know as a landscape architect. Would you.

P

Know you try to merge the the various interests you know the client program. You know what the.

P

Architect's doing with the building and what your, what the site really wants to happen so.

P

On you'll see that when tracy gets through through talking about her building, I'm trying.

P

To pick up on some of the the iron and glass elements that she has proposed in her building.

P

But one in the the architectural programs comes from maybe the client wanting to do maybe wellness.

P

Wellness program or wellness client in this building in the future.

P

So I tried to try to take that out those elements and try to create a landscape experience in what.

P

Is a narrow alley? That's really a kind of a dead space. Now that would potentially connect.

P

You know the east and west portions of portsmouth through those those pedestrian corridors that.

P

Tracy talked about so it that begins. You know commercial alley in the mcdonough on the mcdonald.

P

The uh mcintyre building and it could potentially go all the way to the worth lot connecting to.

P

Vaughan mall but, as you know, it goes down toward gillies and there's a very steep slope there. So.

P

Part of my inspiration and I'm jumping ahead of tracy's glass and steel work. But it's trying to.

P

Take the the concept of the wellness, and also in my my brain, I associate that with you know,.

P

Contemporary uh labyrinths, so labyrinth was designed by the greeks to trap monsters. Then it it.

P

It evolved into you, know, more of a spiritual and a pilgrimage kind of uh so, if you could.

A

Excuse me, and and I don't mean to be rude about this at all- I'm I'm unfortunately,.

A

That this is not the time to get involved in your labyrinth and I fully appreciate what you're doing.

A

And I'm certainly looking forward to it, but we always start off with massing, in other words,.

A

The size of the building we talk about that and then we'll move into putting some design elements.

A

On the building and we look at the building, okay and then it's usually four or five meetings down.

A

The road before we'll really get into what you're talking about now and I'm I'm the only reason. I'm.

A

Saying that is just trying to avoid a situation where you've gone too far and we're looking at.

A

The building and saying well, this building's not going to work or something like that. You know.

A

I'm not trying to diminish what you're saying at all anyway. You know I respect what you've done.

A

I'm not trying to diminish it. Maybe you can summarize yeah. So in summary, yeah trying to.

P

Create a landscape experience that connects that operates in that alley that connects fleet street.

P

To high street, that um makes reference to the things that tracy's about to propose. Okay, I have.

A

We have seen you know, you've got some pictures and the stairs and fair enough fair enough.

O

um So the next page, next couple pages are the uh elevations proposed and um existing or areas.

O

Of demolition, where are you 221 find the right one? Oh next, one yeah yeah, so we're over the head.

G

Gives you a good come back yeah, um and the main point of that is um that this whole.

O

Project in the building we're looking at is um the whole point is to create connections.

O

To draw people down these ways, and so that's what we're trying to do with the build.

O

Should be done so um the the basic arrangement pulls from the idea of um time, as shaped by light.

O

And the way we saw the the clock and the lotus blossoms and the sun moving through the um the.

O

Fire escapes and and trying to uh tie that back to the era in which this building on the corner.

O

Was built which is about 1900? um That was the time of uh great discovery and imagination. It is when.

O

People just first started talking about time, travel and science fiction and orson welles and.

O

Twenty thousand leagues, and so people are trying to imagine uh time, travel.

O

And and uh recently people started looking back at this time period when this building was built.

O

And they were imagining how they would imagine the future and- and it there's sort of this circular.

O

Loop of perception of time, and so what we'd like to do is have this building be a timeline that.

O

Tells the story from 1860 when congress was built until uh today, and then what might the future be?.

O

So just as you're walking through portsmouth uh historic portsmouth uh portsmouth is a tapestry.

O

Of history, we've got the oldest buildings from the late 1600s and stuff being built now, and it's.

O

Never ending there's going to be stuff built 100 years from now, and it's going to keep happening.

O

And so this is a little microcosm of that reality. Okay, tracy, I'm going to say the same thing to you.

A

This is important, though this is what's important. Is your massing of this building that you have on.

A

High street and I think that's what we have to talk about- not all the esoteric stuff, we're not.

A

There, yet you know we're not having a seance either: okay, okay! So it's a uh three-story.

O

Building with a short fourth, okay, um beyond that we'd like to use some glass and metal and stone.

A

Metal yeah one thing that I would notice if you're just going to do it.

A

That way, it's for some reason, your new building seems to project out further.

A

Than the other buildings that are on the sidewalk, how does that work.

D

See how can you do it? Well it it. The front wall is aligned with three uh one congress street. uh What.

O

Is projecting and we're proposing an awning that projects over the sidewalk and that would require.

C

A license building, maybe the recess portion, is the shadow effect from the recess is tricking.

I

Him you've got to you: have we have set back um the building between the opera house right that is set.

O

Back about six feet, so you got a big shadow. This building here, your new building is not out further.

A

No, no there's a site plan, you can see the footprint yeah and it looks like on the site.

A

Plan that it's actually projecting out, I was thinking you had this is in here. Look this. If.

C

Everyone looks at the screen. There's the building wall. There's the recess portion, that's creating.

C

That shadow, okay so extend that line yeah from the new building, and it looks to me like it's out here.

H

There might be a couple inches, but yeah.

C

Okay, okay, well, you're, just wondering that's all what I think gives it. Definitely that.

C

Appearance is we've stepped it back so that we respect what we call the opera house so that.

C

That's why we stepped the building back around the opera house um right so you're calling this.

A

The three wood yeah the opera house, we wanted to read that um architectural feature.

C

And so we didn't want to bring the building out with it. We wanted to bring it back.

C

Because it used to have the coins on the side of it as well and so to get those coins to work.

C

Which aren't working now they're going to be put back? Are they yeah? No it just. I don't know it's.

A

Just deceiving, you know, you know what it might be. The um one congress street building is not.

O

Parallel to the property line, so if you it touches the property line at congress street and then it.

O

Splays back a little bit, the opera house is one or two degrees off and then we're exactly parallel to.

O

The property line kind of halfway at the midpoint of one congress street okay, just a little comment.

A

Though yeah good observation, though yeah, it is not an exact straight line, it has a little bend.

A

So the building that you're proposing is is it black stories? It is three stories with a short.

O

Fourth and one le underground, basement level of parking and the skylights on the roof are.

I

That's the fourth floor that is the fourth floor. Fourth, floor, skylights.

I

And the dormers and the skylights are on the same floor. Yeah it's a force. It's all part of the yeah.

O

Yeah, so, um and and that comes to the idea of trying to bring in more light as you get to.

O

The modern part of the building- that's farther away from market square, but closer to the garage.

O

We're introducing glass the windows get bigger as you get away from market square.

O

And they're smaller when you're closer to the historic building just gradually.

O

Likewise, when you get up to the roof, there's more glass and it's heavier with stone masonry at the.

A

We've bottom some more questions here. Martin, you must have some questions. Well, I I appreciate.

G

The fact that you're restoring the original two buildings, I think that's great, bringing back some.

G

Of these elements, I know you said we will try to. I hope you know you lean more towards success than.

G

What what it is now um I like the massing, I think I think it works you're already showing us.

G

A language- and I like the fact that you we do have like a a massing and a in a shell.

G

That is just referencing, the historic district and historic language of the district.

G

Then you're getting into some very unconventional.

G

Elements, maybe is it too early john? Would it upset you if we ventured into.

G

What these things I haven't decided if I'm upset yet or not.

A

Well, let's, let's risk upsetting john yeah, maybe you could do spiders.

G

Tell us what you were intending with some of the more jagged elements and unconventional elements.

G

There uh so the idea is light emerging from darkness, and so the windows, um they're bay windows,.

O

Without the flat part in the middle, that's all they are they're a marvin window. That's a corner.

O

Window um and they're on the 45 like a bay window would be, but without the flat part in the middle.

O

And that is so that we can get some shadow lines um across the facade too. How do those operate.

O

We have not investigated the operation yet, but that's the shape and size.

D

And this is on the back side.

D

High strength, the high street, these aren't windows in the left part when you open, they are actually.

O

90 degree windows.

A

Those called oreos they're called corner windows and usually people.

O

Put them on the corner of a building, but we're not doing that now on sheet.

G

H2.32 you have like uh at the at the uh store at the street level, you have like a series of.

G

Different types of when is that different types of windows or the same window in different recordings.

O

Yeah, so those um we are showing those at different. Those are our nano walls that open horizontally.

O

And we're showing them at different levels as they open, so that you understand that it's a retail.

O

Market, probably a restaurant and in nice weather they will open, but they will lift up.

O

Off of the sidewalk, instead of going sideways, and primarily that's so that.

O

They're not in the way of people walking down the sidewalk or sitting inside.

O

Yeah in the open position, they are up above tucked under the canopy yeah folded, they're.

C

Folded which isn't shown here yeah, so um what I'd like to do is show you animation of those opening.

G

The corner element: yes, the corner element: um we we call that the prism.

O

That is, it's essentially a piece of it's a way: finding element that recalls the shape.

O

And massing of the steeple, it's a way to get people as they come down loud street to.

O

Turn left and find their way to market square. It also is it alludes to the clock, tower mechanisms.

O

And it is a representation of light, so it's a prism. It will be used to bring light from.

O

Behind is due south. It will come through and cast a shadow on the plaza in front of it at high noon.

O

And help people understand how light moves around the site through the sunshine. We also would like.

O

To take the opportunity to use it to help other wayfinding, we've even discussed potentially using.

O

Potentially some holographs that could uh portray characters in history or some artistic motif that.

O

Would um bring some some art and life and way finding to the site they'll give the ghost tour.

A

A new place to go to if you use it, so why don't you make this more representative of the tower of.

A

The north church, why don't you make it a steeple or why doesn't it have a clock or why does it look.

A

Like something that belongs out in the farmlands of kansas, leaning, leaning against the building.

O

Well, so what it is is a um it's a truncated square prism, so it's basically a square and it's twisted.

O

45 degrees- and that is prisms, as you know, refract light, and you can see this full spectrum of light.

O

Or you can just see white light and it's the play on the clock tower of the steeple, which is time.

O

And light and light and time are connected, so that is the connection between the steeple and it's the.

O

Shape, okay, it's the shape of the steep. It's a pointy triangle. You don't enter into it reagan.

B

I think this is all very clever and- um and I'm feeling really positive about it-.

B

And I'm glad that you went through this presentation and spoke all of the words.

B

Because um it helped me understand, I I just looking at this without really a lot of.

B

Explanation, I it, I didn't, understand it as much as I do now, and I appreciate it more. I think that.

B

The new building and the new sort of generalized design of it um again is really cleverly done.

B

The I actually love the gradation of the window openings and how it.

B

Shifts as you go down the building from a more you know, historic narrow opening to a bigger opening.

B

I think using these corner windows is very interesting. I think that the shape of the roof.

B

I almost wonder if it might be a little bit too much of a projection of the eve line. I don't know.

B

If you can bring it back a little bit just because the building, the historic building on the corner.

B

Has such a very drastic, um you know brought back mansard roof, um but I really do think that it's.

B

Cleverly done, I don't think you know it in these. I'm looking at age 2.31, just to kind of understand.

B

The mass it is a big addition for sure to this block, um but I I think that it you've done it.

B

In a way that it's not necessarily bigger in height, it's not projecting farther out.

B

You are respecting the historic buildings, so I think in theory all that you've done.

B

Is really well thought out and I really appreciate it, and so um you know, even though we're adding.

B

This very large addition to the back of this block here. I think that it's going to work really well.

B

With its surroundings and really respect that I should mention there was a big hotel here.

O

You did yes margo, um so tracy help me with.

E

The drawings as they represent the opera house and then behind the opera house, I think 28 feet.

E

Something behind the opera house there's a straight up and down wall now, standing.

E

On high street there's no way, I'm gonna see that right. um I guess I I'm what I'm the reason. I ask.

E

Is I was worried about the beautiful arch at the top of that building right you, you appreciate and.

E

You see it when you see it against the skyline and if there's something behind that, that's going to.

E

Obstruct that view, you're then going to ruin that beautiful view of the arch, so I just want to be.

O

Sure that perspective wise you've taken that into account well yeah, we'll we'll take some.

O

Perspective views of that to make sure that's why we set that back.

O

There is a stare, an elevator in back but yeah. That's a good point to make sure that.

E

To john's question about the shadow and and the building stuff, I I appreciate that you set back.

E

That part just to the right of the opera house, um I'm wondering if it would be more effective.

E

To move the rest of the new building back so that it doesn't line up 100.

E

And I'm not talking about three feet back, I'm talking, like the smallest amount.

E

That just having that much difference in that long facade from the more delicate, lighter facade would.

E

Could could make a really big difference on congress street? You didn't talk about. I don't.

E

Think you talked about what you're doing with that's true. I haven't gotten back to that page. Yet.

O

um Yes, we'd like to put a dormer up there, because I didn't recall anything historically that you.

E

Were harkening back to no, there was never a dormer up there, but if you look um so it's just the.

O

Buildings never really match so before the brick building on the corner was built. You see the old.

O

Historic photos, it was a two-story wooden building and it was dwarf by three congress street.

O

And then that was torn down or burned down and then the brick building that's there now is built.

O

And then, if, if you look at it today, it's got this giant firewall and they don't.

O

Line up and that it seems like something's missing up there, because you just have this giant firewall.

O

That that goes past the roof, so this seemed to balance it and it it creates a better.

O

Conversation with the building next to it, it makes they make a better pair by balancing the height of.

E

The roof it's right there, I think the problem is, if you want to go this direction, that is way too.

E

Fancy for the building underneath it we you're right. You are right and we did simplify that.

O

Okay, yes great agreed. That was easy. I can't say I'm percent without favor of putting it.

E

Up there, but I think we're in favor of that we're not so fancy. Let's see I brought, I brought that.

E

Up, I'm gonna reserve judgment on the prism for the moment and I find some other window concept here.

E

That's a slightly simpler version, there's still some trim up there, which we can tone back as well.

O

Not quite keep working on.

D

Are you it margo? I am yeah david um sure.

I

You can probably guess that this is a bit of a stretch for me, um so I similarly don't think.

I

Much of the uh the placement of the balcony that arrangement seems way too overdone on congress.

I

Street um I have a I'm pretty certain that the the windows just break all precedent for me and I I.

I

That's off to you for your imagination, um but I just can't see how I'm ever going to get behind.

I

Angled windows, sticking out from the front of the building I'll see how I'm ever going to get.

I

Behind these garage door windows on the first floor, I just can't imagine what you're doing.

I

With this, erector set thing that you're building on the corner of the building.

I

Where corners in in town have celebration.

I

This is different: um uh the combination of skylights and dormers together nestled the.

I

Way they are is awkward for me. um I don't I'm puzzled by why you need to do that.

I

Thing that you're doing over the entryway, the new entryway to the opera house to that roof portico.

I

um And the corners the roof of your building when you're right next to what appears to be to be a.

I

Semi-Classical manchester type roof and you're creating this sloped roof line that then breaks.

I

At the lower edge overhangs, a balcony with window swing, squatting um just way out of.

I

Scale way out of way out of the blue, I don't see how this relates to the building. That's virtually.

I

Attached to uh I know that there's a parking lot there now, but but this is virtually attached to a.

I

Building right in the middle of the town, uh it seems like you're just trying to make me crazy.

H

So I'm gonna respond again. Okay, you know this is what set me off to cut that part out.

O

It's this right this this just! I couldn't stop thinking about this yeah. It's right.

O

Sure I just see one of those here, though. Oh that's the building with the crazy skylight.

O

Yeah, so that's why so you're going to go one step more yeah ah boy? I I I I I know it's all very.

I

Different, I'm not going anywhere with this okay yeah dan. Do you want to jump in segway, just jump.

D

I guess my biggest new windows are new windows, but that whatever you're putting over the opera house.

D

Doesn't make sense and detraction that.

D

The beautiful work brings, some 3d views, the the 2d elevation, everything looks flat and up front, but.

O

Yeah we'll bring some 3d views, so you can see that it is set back.

O

And yeah, we don't want to see it either, so we'll we'll do our best to make it disappear.

C

You know we we've done it, so we won't see it from the street, but what that does.

C

Is it brings in a handicap, elevated court through the store buildings, get rid of the fire escapes.

C

From the stair tower yeah and an elevator about four stories, so at some point we've got to connect.

C

Behind the opera house to make the front buildings to ditch fire scoops and make them accessible.

C

Which they're not net? Okay, so at some point that mass has got to get up there to the fourth floor.

C

Yeah certainly makes sense, but we want to step it back enough, so it doesn't so. The opera house reads.

C

Fights are you talking about that or were you talking about the iron? I was talking about that.

D

Mostly about the iron thing, the iron or the awning, the canopy yeah, we we agree that needs some work.

A

That needs a lot of work. The awning outside was to depict um we actually envisioned awnings going all.

C

The way down this street for um for safety, price and snow falling off, um so that was an attempt to.

C

Bring a different awning to the highlight the main entrance to the building, which is the opera house.

C

So um this is this next generation of that, um so we've gotten rid of the angles. It's still the same.

O

Size and form, but we are bringing in the the circles that um tie together the clock tower.

O

With the prism element, I'm using that and adding a little more detail when we got the 3d laser scan.

O

Of the opera house and realized how much actual ornate carving there is on this building with.

O

The window trim and the coins it seemed that this needed to have the same level of detail.

O

As well, although that is a contemporary interpretation, the intent is to um it's.

O

The and main entrance this whole building will be there, so we want it to relate to.

O

What's hap gonna happen at the corner with the prism and the awnings okay, so my comment is.

A

That awning does not belong on the opera house. That's my first comment. I'm very sorry.

A

um If you need to have some kind of awning over the door, I hope you come up with something beside.

A

That I mean you've already described, the amount of ornate trim and stuff is on there. Then you're.

A

Going to bolt this iron thing on the front of it, for because it relates to the iron thing.

A

That's in the corner that not all of us are in agreement on, um so what what material are you.

A

uh What material is this? Looking this? It's now just beige: uh where do you? What do you see it as.

A

um We want it to look like bronze, I don't know if it actually will be bronze. Oh I I not that.

A

It's the building, the building, the building. Oh, the building itself. um We haven't had a great.

O

Deal of discussion um on exact materials, but we would like a stone masonry base and potentially.

O

um A terra cotta, clad, upper or potentially granite on the upper, but um not metal, not brick, probably.

O

There there's terra cotta and brown stone on the corner, there's um and bread.

A

And bread- I'm not pushing brick, I'm just kidding about that. um I mean my overall opinion uh is.

A

That the roof is just too convoluted. It's between the dormers and the skylights and.

A

The overhangs and then the overhangs are cut off for the dormers and it's just.

A

It's like what it's like, you just threw all this detail at it, and this is what you came up with.

A

I I just feel it's just too too complicated, and I mean I'm willing to accept those windows.

A

They're rather odd I'm, but um I don't think that they would destroy uh the building.

A

um So they're not deal breakers is what I'm trying to say now. The first floor windows.

A

I just don't know what to say: I should have shown them all closed yeah. You know, but just because.

A

You've got a new catalog and there's these windows are in there and you're. Saying: let's use these, you.

A

Know they just don't make any sense they've I mean we've had a hard enough time. Accepting the folding.

A

Windows that so many restaurants have had, and that took a long time for us to accept those and now.

A

You're going the other way we've seen these before. Have we never no yeah they're all over the world.

C

Though I mean I don't care, well, that's the other thing. So, let's, let's talk about all over the world.

A

You know um it's, you know, I might be a little bit more cosmopolitan than you.

A

Think I am, you know, so you know I've been to brussels, you know and I've been to rotterdam.

A

And and I've seen buildings- and this is where we're going here- and um it's not if this were.

A

Building were in brussels, it wouldn't be really successful. I don't think it's I it it's just.

A

It just doesn't seem to um work for the site in my opinion, but that's my opinion.

A

Yes, karen yeah, um I I just want to say that I was so pleased that you have um plans to restore.

J

The the buildings that are there and- uh and I I that's what concerns me- is that I feel like.

J

You're you're doing that and um and then like the awning over the opera house, store it's like adding.

J

Things in that superfluous, almost it this this, this property is, is nice because of its simplicity,.

J

And its authenticity and- and I feel like when you have built this in the back that there's just so.

J

Much going on, um I actually agree about the roofs too, with the the dormers piercing, the roof and.

J

I don't know, there's just a lot happening and I I think it takes away from from the.

J

Uniqueness of the of the front buildings- I I feel the way about the balcony too. I I think it just.

J

It's not necessary it's, so the simplicity of it is really lovely. I would hate to see it just go.

J

Just because it's different, I think it could be married with with the existing buildings better.

A

um Anyone else well, I just you, said a lot of a lot of times. You said we john, we don't like.

G

This and we don't did I say that I'm afraid you did so I no, but I I thought at the end.

A

I thought at the end that I said that's just my opinion. You modified it all right. Well,.

A

Thank you very much. It's always nice to get your approval. I just want to keep you honest.

G

But uh I think for the first shot and and I'm not bothered by the business, if you look at the.

G

If you look at this building on the corner of last street and high, that has some very pronounced.

G

Very you know, you would think these. These are other scales as well.

G

um This building yeah yeah the pierce buck. Okay, um I I like the creativity that you're bringing.

G

To it, maybe maybe we still need to look at some of the corner elements and stuff like that, but.

G

I, for one uh lean towards uh you, know, liking what I'm seeing.

C

I built the pierce ball.

A

Well, I think that we've got a lot of differences of opinion here that have all floated out at you.

A

I'm sorry uh it's going to be up to you to try and come up with a kind of a conglomerate. What.

A

The heck we're all talking about, but um you know, I think, that we're all comfortable with.

A

The size of the building is that something didn't hear a comment about scales. No, it's a back lot.

I

The streets sidewalks, the lines are pretty well there. um The height did.

I

A very careful job of snapping, a line um all seems like it fits in that's yes, it's a.

I

Way to make things fit in and you did that, and so I know you're capable.

A

You should have a little sign around your neck, it just says the public.

N

It's very worrisome that there are only two other people who are representing the public.

N

When there's so much going on in this city, my name is elizabeth, brad or property owner 159 mcdonald.

N

Street, I think it's great that they're restoring that building. I love the front of that building.

N

But I do have concerns about the the removal of the parking lot because there seems to be.

N

A misconception um that the goal is to remove parking lots and put buildings in them, but the.

N

Reality is is that larger cities nowadays are removing parking lots asking builders to put.

N

The parking underground and then to create more green space. In my letter that I wrote.

N

I give you an article that was written in 2 2011, in which apple got rid of their 20 of landscaping.

N

And green space and created 90 by putting their parking underneath their building and.

N

Then creating large parks for their employees to use and that's the goal of getting rid of.

N

Parking lots and the goal is to create more green space in cities because of all the pollution that.

N

Buildings create so, if you're putting parking underground, you shouldn't be putting more.

N

Buildings and that's what the theme is nowadays in terms of climate change and everything else, there.

N

Was a lot of talk about light tons of talk about light, but I want you to think about when you cut.

N

When you're walking and you cut from the front of the hanover garage and you go down the steps.

N

Parallel to the hanover garage heading towards haven, court, as if you were going to the yarn shop.

N

Or the old hardware store was back there and you come out there and there's light there because of.

N

The parking lot when that parking lot turns into a four-story 73 foot tall building because they have.

N

30 feet of grade on that parking lot, so my picture is shows you how that that angle is so they have. I.

N

Think 29 feet of grade because of the angle of that parking lot. That building is going to be.

N

Very very tall, and it's good there's going to be no sun in that alley. It's going to be completely.

N

Dark back there, so all this talk about light is wonderful but they're getting rid of the light in.

N

The alley the alley that's supposed to be inviting- I don't know about you, but I've walked back there.

N

At night and it's a little disconcerting to be walking next to a parking garage.

N

You can't wait to get onto the street because you're now out in the open, but when I asked.

A

You, when you walked that alley, not that ali I'm talking about the other one from from coming from.

N

When you walk down to haven street from hanover street in the back there, you can.

N

Walk back there there's they have their dump their dumpsters back there, but you can walk back there.

H

You got to go over the jersey barriers, though yeah strike killings, they've been there for.

C

Like 20 years, americans, that's why I'm asking you when you I used to walk in.

A

That alley too, but that was 30 years ago. I'm sorry, do you mean behind the pizza place, the brewery or.

C

Do you mean the parking garage yeah anyway and the brewery behind the brewery, yeah? Okay, that's.

C

Different, you guys are there yeah, you walk back through there and you can get over to haven, court.

N

Swinging around I'm just saying that it's a it's the sense of when you're walking somewhere that.

N

You want to feel safe and at night time a lot of people walk from the bars to gillies and you're.

N

Going to create this little alley back there, but you're going to have this giant building on one.

N

Side and you're going to have the parking garage on the other. So that's my concern about the height.

N

When I looked at the hotel that used to be there, it was a horseshoe shaped building, it was a hotel.

N

On the front, and then it had two sides and then it had a courtyard in the middle and then it.

N

Had it, it had a grassy area on the side to the right, which was on haven court and what they're.

N

Proposing is filling in that whole lot, which is going to really change the feel of that area.

N

Back there and most of the buildings are three stories back there on haven, court they're, not.

N

Forced three stories, four with one; fourth top, so to me, the back side of that building, the new area.

N

Is the concern is, it seems like it's going to be too big, it's going to make that street.

N

That's not very wide feel more enclosed, I'm not sure how a fire truck is going to get back there.

N

Anymore, once you take out the parking lot in terms of being able to set up with their.

N

They usually like 20 feet and I don't think, there's 20 feet. So that's my thoughts on this.

N

I like the front I like what they're proposing they're trying to make it what it used to be.

N

They're trying to preserve some of those things, I appreciate those efforts. I like the idea of steps.

N

Being back there, I just have concerns about safety and concerns about how tight that's going to feel.

N

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, elizabeth. Anyone else like to speak about this.

H

Nobody here either online.

A

We're good, I would say, just to give credit what credit is due. I I feel that you know lighting is.

A

For like alleys or something you know what you've done on pleasant street and that you'll light.

A

That alley out, I know it, I know it'll be lit up yeah and that's why we went just slightly out.

C

Of sequence, because we're meeting so much with the city now on developing high street and haven.

C

Court we didn't want to startle any of the boards by hearing that we were had an effort going on.

C

And they hadn't seen it. So that was one of the reasons why we brought the haven court thing up.

C

Front just so everyone's aware that we're making I appreciate it, you know, I know what you're saying.

A

And there again, I'm I'm so sorry that you know that uh for interruption, but I mean you know we.

C

Went out of sequence yeah, we went out of sequence. You were right, we're terrible we're right. You know.

A

My wife says so anyway, you were right, we went out of sequence, we just didn't want to startle anybody.

A

So uh you've had a number of comments and put them all together, shake them up and come back.

A

Next month or what sure? Okay, so we have a motion for continuing to continue for next. Second,.

D

Great okay, thank you. All those in favor say hi all right. How long is this going to take this rehab.

A

Four to six months, if it heals oh jeez, hold a good thought. There's four rotator cuff muscles and I.

C

Tore three of them out of the bone, so we're gonna, put little plastic pegs in and reattach them and.

C

We'll see take care of yourself.

C

Thank you yeah. Oh my god that slippery snow out there.

J

Is that what happened he slept? I didn't hear he was in hawaii yeah. He fell in hawaii.

M

That would never happen to me. What's he got look at this flash drive, so I guess.

A

Did we do that? Oh we got one more okay, we're more tracy yeah good, oh all, righty! So we have.

A

A work session requested by four four marcy street llc owner for property located at 445.

A

Marcy street, wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of a new receivable.

A

Family residence with attached garage as per plans on file in the planning department, said property.

A

Is shown on assessor map 101 as lot 3 lies within the general residence b and historic districts.

A

Who's here to present good evening, tracy kozak arco, architects, here with jim and gail sanders.

O

Homeowners, um they will be building this as their primary residence age in place.

O

uh Yeah next chapter all right, so it's our second work session and uh I did bring the.

O

Drawings from the first work session, if there are any questions that come up over height and scale.

O

And mass, we have those studies from last time, but I won't bring those out unless.

O

You ask for them. um The context we talked about um I did put, I did add another photo of the direct of.

O

Butter to the east, which is the the one in the center of the nine square yep that one that is a.

O

Royal barry willis house built in 1960 yeah right, pretty cool, um so there's that uh yeah a bunch of.

O

Different styles and ages surrounding this, um it's about a third of an acre third acre. Okay,.

O

um And, as we mentioned last time, we're in a flood zone, so we are lifting the building up a little.

O

Bit three or four feet: it's not crazy, but it's not right at grade and we are looking to have.

O

A wraparound porch a garage on the back. um What is it um work on the flood zone? I mean, where are.

A

You you've lifted it up. Are you at eight feet or what are you 13 feet? 13. targeting 13 feet.

O

The site is down at about seven feet at one corner and uh about 11 or 12 feet at the other.

O

Corner so there's a big slope to this site: there's some ponding at the lower corners, which is why.

O

We scooch the building all in this corner, which is the high point, and we really have to.

O

Otherwise, we're six or seven feet above grade, which is ridiculous. um Yeah wants that. There's no.

B

Basement, there's no basements. It's on piers we're going to wrap it in a skirt of trim and lattice.

O

It's a flow through. Okay, are you forced to do this? You see yeah, you are forced to do it. Okay,.

G

Yeah all right, so there are different ways to do a flow through crawl space, um but yeah. It has to.

O

Allow the water to come and go all right, you're forced to elevate okay. um We don't.

O

Have to go, uh we have to go. uh Is it two feet above two feet above the female line, above so.

O

We only technically need to go up 10 feet, but that's what I was wondering why you're going up 13.

O

Because it I've seen it I live here. I live next door, practically it I've seen it go up to 11 feet.

O

At least a few times already, so I it would be silly to design under what we've measured already.

O

Just the floor plans, which shows uh basically um the front of the house, is on prey. uh It's.

O

Oriented towards praise street the garage faces the back which about the back, but it's set back.

O

From partridge street it is bordered on two sides, by two streets and by private lots on the side. So.

O

There will probably be fences along the sides. We have not shown those yet, but you can picture that.

O

In your mind, there'll be fences alongside we'll probably want to do a low fence across the front.

O

Of the street, we have not shown that yet, but we'd like it to be low and nice on the front.

O

So we, the comments from last time, were that the uh the entrance was not prominent enough.

O

Noticeable enough, uh so we've made that wider and we've brought it forward a couple of feet.

O

It's still a porch and it's still on the corner, uh we're not proposing a center.

O

Entrance, this is more evocative of kind of a newer interpretation of a.

O

Victorian massing, almost or shingle style, but simplified without all the brick of raqqa. There.

O

Is a house the house that we're inspired by in terms of mass and arrangement of the gable and.

O

The corner entrance is on the corner of prey and marcy street, which also has a bay window on the.

O

First floor that sticks out about the same size and a gable window on the attic level like this.

O

We did the wrap around stairs and railings brought the front door forward. We also extended.

O

um A kind of a a trellis- I guess along some detail along the trim of that.

O

Porch that entry porch on this on the corner that will cast a little bit of shadow and allow.

O

For a climbing vine or something to wrap around the porch for some decorative element, where is it.

O

On the right, so, on the right hand, side of the front of the building, that's the entrance, the.

O

Front door and it's recessed under a little bit of a corner porch and we um we adjusted the roof.

O

We brought the roof down and forward a couple feet, and maybe this is not the severe of enough change.

O

But we thought it was subtle enough that it would keep with the massing all these roofs connect.

O

So that we don't have uh stepped fascias and odd connections where the roofs combined so.

O

I wouldn't want to just move one roof without having all the roofs still smoothly connect, so.

O

What we've done is we've just lowered that eve a little bit and added that trim detail.

O

On the edge to make it a little bit fancier and more noticeable add a little bit of.

O

A shadow detail and the doors wider and brought forward to the street a little bit.

A

Apparently, you haven't reduced the floor height at all. We did not change the building height. You.

A

Didn't change the building height, it's exactly the same height as before. We just changed the.

O

um The fascia height over the porch we brought that down and we did add a little bit of a roof.

O

um Hipped roof skirt over yep over there, where the roof deck is.

O

uh The comment was it looked like a cereal box, so now it has a bit of a.

O

But hat that one of that was the some of the comments. Wasn't it that the building was too high.

A

uh Some of the comments, no, no, don't think so. It's it's not the tallest building in the neighborhood.

O

It's not the shortest building, it's probably in the upper third of buildings, um but that's.

O

Why I brought the old work session that shows the height comparisons? If you want to talk about that.

O

Research yeah yeah yeah happy to talk about it and I brought some. If you have more questions, I.

O

Brought a bunch of 3d um axons and perspectives with the city model, so you can just simply look.

O

And judge for yourself what you think the building is, let's all pass those around okay, very helpful.

O

They they were in the first one, but they were tiny. So um now they're big margo. Do you have a question.

E

uh I was gonna jump in with the thing.

E

It seems like there's not much, you've changed a few things here and there, but this is.

E

Basically, the same building as as we saw the last time.

E

So you know the first time it came out. I went down and I walked the area and I took.

E

A look at it and I went back because you know you explained a lot of things. A lot.

E

Of what you were thinking about, so I wanted to go back and walk the property again and.

E

I'm going to make some comments about what's good, what may or may not happen.

E

To the lot where the little building is right now, um and while this building has to.

E

Be judged on its own, I am thinking about what might happen in the future in that area and.

E

I'm concerned that the mass of this building well, the next building, would be judged on its own.

E

We might end up with two rather large buildings next to each other in the middle of an area that.

E

Has a lot of really small buildings, so I'm I want to judge your building on its own by itself.

E

But I am but I am thinking about what might happen in the future and I'm looking at these all of your.

E

Neighboring buildings, with the exception of the big salt box, that's two hou two blocks away or.

E

A block and a half away and the one victorian that's on the corner and I look at everything.

E

Else around and this building just doesn't seem to fit the mass of the neighborhood, and I.

E

I can't redesign it for you. I can't make suggestions on how to change it.

E

So that that is less of an issue. But I just have to recognize that most of.

E

These buildings in this area are simpler in their basic structure in their design and.

E

I can totally see putting a modern building in this space if its lines were simpler and more.

E

Reflective of what was going on in the rest of the neighborhood, I could even see a larger building.

E

In this space, if it had those simpler lines and therefore didn't look like such a.

E

Complex building, surrounded by a lot of uncomplex buildings.

O

I understood there are definitely a lot of different houses around the neighborhood.

O

And again, where um we're not trying to replicate the federal style here at all, it's not a federal.

O

Building it's, that is the simple building you're referring to. This is not that we're we're looking.

O

At the queen, anne building on the corner in in a simpler term, this is not as fancy as that.

O

But it is a similar proportion, a similar scale and there's another one on the corner.

O

Of salter as well that's the same scale and there are even bigger buildings. If you go.

O

Down salter street there are smaller buildings, certainly down holmes court and towards that end,.

O

And, of course, the candy shop is the tiniest building of all and it's right next door.

O

The royal barry willis house, it's it's a little bit smaller, but it's up on a hill, so the height.

O

Of it is about the same as what we're proposing, because it starts out higher. We have located this.

O

Directly across the street, from the open space that is in back of that salt box, so we're trying.

O

To be sensitive to the houses across the street, which are the federal style colonials, which are.

O

Quite small and you're correct the one there are some small houses right across the street a little.

O

Bit to the left, so by scooching this over just a little bit, it allows some some breathing room.

O

And it is about the same size as the salt box that it's facing across that back lawn.

O

So we're playing on the variety I think if this neighborhood was all uniform, if this was gate.

O

Street this would be a totally different story, but it's not so that's what we're striving for.

A

But you could you know you could get a foot by having a conventional eight-foot ceiling.

A

On the first floor, so you'd gain a foot there and you could gain a foot, probably by.

A

You know reducing the pitch of the roof a little bit you know. Instead of I don't know, is it a 10.

A

um We're matching the the gables that are on the the two houses on the top left and those.

D

Array of photos where yeah we're trying to match that vernacular yeah. It's not uh you know. That's.

A

Not really context angles of roof is is not really in the context when something is far away, but.

A

I mean you could change the roof angle and then it would drop down a foot or two. You could reduce.

A

The mass that way, if you wanted to um so anybody other got comments here, david you've been. I was.

A

Strangely, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity. I I I'm struck by by how.

I

Large the building looks when I look at some of the other buildings in the.

I

On the near site, uh and and it's a modern building in that, so it doesn't have all the.

I

Drippy goo guy stuff that obviously no one likes anymore. um That's on the deck that.

I

Diminishes the scale of the queen yen building, that's on the corner. uh It is a common issue.

I

With the this sort of comparative htc business to pick out the two largest buildings that.

I

Satisfy your requirements and say I'm not any bigger than those, and and yet there are buildings.

I

That are one story or one and a half story right next door. So so it's hard to find ourselves in.

I

The middle, we also don't live like the people that built the one and a half story, houses.

I

Things change, but our business here is to try to make things seem like they fit in better.

I

And I don't get that gut reaction of this fitting in better. And when I look at a couple of features.

I

That I don't understand why they're there. This is your job. It seems like the window head to.

I

Windowsill height distance is is larger than what we see in many houses, which makes me wonder. You've.

I

Either got an extreme web thickness of your floor frame or you're using very tall windows.

I

And your floor to floor heights are are high. uh I don't get what's going on with those.

I

I'm not certain that changing that by six or eight inches would change the scale of the house, but it.

I

Does look like it's, I get that my gut reaction is, is it's kind of big and clunky and plain.

I

uh With all kinds of complex rooms on it, this house has more roofs on it. Planes of roof than.

I

I think probably anything in the neighborhood um and it's it has none of the trim that goes along.

I

None of the accoutrements that go along with the queenie and houses, but it's got all of the scale.

I

Maybe that's where the problem is, I don't know I'm still struggling with it.

I

I'd like to get it right, I live in this neighborhood also.

A

Dan, you lived in the neighborhood also yep walked my dog by that lot. Any day.

D

It certainly is a unique house, but I worry, the scale is too big for that. Neighborhood.

D

I worry that that friend lot, which is going to go for big bucks, is also going to need.

D

Another big house and then suddenly you're really dwarfing, all the historic and all houses around it.

D

And if we're we're allowed to worry about the front line, I know it's uh yeah. I don't.

A

You know we should consider it, but it's really not. You know in our purview at this point.

K

Aaron, I agree with everything that's been said I, and, and I what I struggle with is.

J

The roofs bother me that there's so many of them, but but when I look at this, it's it's big.

J

And I just don't see how it relates to the majority of the houses.

J

That are in the neighborhood. I understand the comparison to the queen hand, but but even that.

J

I other than the roof and some other elements. I don't really see where it connects to that either.

G

Oh, thank you. I I don't think this house is grossly.

G

Bigger than some of the larger houses in the area, it's got a very large lot.

G

It is a brand new construction. It's a brand new house.

G

Could it go on a little bit of a diet yeah? I think it could. um I think it if it were to.

G

You know if you were willing to take a chance and drop it down a little bit.

G

uh You know you give away a little bit of your.

G

Insurance policy of having go from 11 to 13.. I think that would help, um but I could support.

G

This it's it's a big house and it's and as for thinking of what's going to happen in the next lot.

G

Yeah, another large house is going to go there and it's going to make this house.

G

Even more tied to its contacts, so it's going to work in its favor right now. There's a it's a tiny.

G

Monopoly sized house right next to it and that's not doing it any it's not helping your argument so.

G

Yeah, um so I I just wanted to make it right like this. Oh reagan, you haven't spoken, I'm.

B

Sorry, that's okay, um so I I I think I agree with a lot of the comments here.

B

I think martin's phrase of putting it on a little bit of a diet will probably help out a lot.

B

But I also agree this is this is a new construction house. I don't have really.

B

um Any problem with the style or design of it, I think it could probably just be kind of.

B

Squished in a little bit to try and fit in with the surrounding properties a little bit um yes,.

B

You mentioned this last time. It's been a big open lot for a long time, so anything that you put on it.

B

Is going to be different and it's going to be it's going to take some getting used to controversial.

B

um Because you know, I don't know that there's ever been in in in memory of anybody who's lived here.

B

Been around if nobody remembers anything, that's been on that lot. So it's it's going to be a change.

B

And it's going to take some getting used to so um yeah and that and that's.

B

Can always be hard, but I think that.

B

I I don't think that you're grossly off in terms of again design or um arrangement of it.

A

And and I'll just chime in that um I still have a.

A

Problem with the massing, as it seems, majority people do.

A

The idea that I put forward about dropping a foot between the.

A

First floor and the second floor and maybe reducing the roof pitch and then using.

A

Martin's idea of maybe not being 13 feet, maybe being 12 feet.

A

Which is more than you've ever seen, and it seems you know it's definitely above.

A

The standards so that gets you like three feet right there in height and I don't know.

A

What to tell you about some of the details, I I don't quite understand the big brown window.

A

It's it's interesting, it's! It's um has nothing to do with the massing. Obviously, but um I like.

A

What you've done with the door- and uh I like the monumental stairs I've always kind of like those.

A

As long as the railings are taken care of, that's always a problem with the.

A

Monumental type of stairs, I have no problem with the garage being on the back and.

A

The drive you know going from one street to the other, so.

A

In general, um I think that it, you know, could be a very nice house, one that I would certainly like to.

A

Spend my last few years in and it's just that it just seems it has the impression of massiveness.

A

And that's something that you're going to have to cure somehow or another.

O

So you're all in agreement that makes it actually easier, yeah.

A

We do have an agreement on that. One thing that it is massive, but we will we will take a look at that.

O

I I mean I speak for the group. I think we just all would like to be happier about it.

I

You've got a 10 foot floor to floor height from the first floor.

I

That, if we're looking for, why does this look so big? I don't think we have to look much.

I

Farther than that, well, we were looking at nine-foot ceilings um a lot of the victorian.

O

Houses have the nine-foot ceilings- oh yeah. We think that's great and we'd like to, but they.

O

Also have stuff, so you have a lot of stuff changes. The perspective of things no you're.

O

Right we're trying to, and this doesn't exactly yeah you know that yeah you're, a clever girl.

D

Thank you yeah, so we're going to come back next about some public.

A

Oh a lot of public okay. So let's get the public opinion on this. Try to be brief. Please! Oh! No! Yes!.

D

10 15. evening um my name is john everline.

D

I live at 454, marcy street. That's the noaa brought back at 454 and thank you for fixing the garage.

D

It's probably going to fall down anytime. Well, it's it's still still going! um So I'm going to.

D

Be brief, I sent a detailed letter and I just want to make a couple points um you know I'd. I had.

D

Hoped this would be developed as a single lot, but obviously it's the center's choice and they can.

D

Subdivide if they can get the approvals and we're here tonight to consider building on.

D

The back lot, and so the question that everyone is talking about is, is the concern I think of.

D

All my neighbors here, which is the massing of the house, and it's just in our opinion, it's too big.

D

And I think mark mendenberg has more comments on it. I'll leave it to him to show how it is actually.

D

Much larger than his house, which is the big, the um the queen ad on the corner of prey and and marcy.

D

Mr jones's house, it is mr jones, he sold the candy shop too. Did he not yes,.

D

I just have one other. I guess comment on the the melange of styles, which I would say.

D

I would have preferred to have it built with red legos, because I think if there had been a simple.

D

Cohesive structure for the entire house, it would have hung together and it wouldn't have seemed so.

D

Large, but because there are a lot of different pieces to it, it it it basically is, is a little.

D

Bit jarring, especially given the size of the house, um and I just comment- you know: we've got.

D

To consider this house in relation to the smaller houses on praise street and in consideration to.

D

The candy shop, because that's not before the board- that's not there's no demolition permit for that.

D

It's there and it's extant and this house has to sort of fit in that neighborhood.

D

So my concerns are with the house not with the sanders. I welcome them to the neighborhood and.

D

I I hope we can come up with a solution that everybody will be will be happy with.

D

Those are my comments. Thank you.

J

I will be very brief: I'm I'm john's wife. I live at 454 marcy street and I absolutely love this.

J

Town and the variety of styles, um I am concerned because we look at the little. We look straight.

J

Over that little candy shop um and this we're going to be looking at this wall and the garage.

J

Is taller than a lot of the primary structures around it? It looks like it's not.

J

I couldn't find an actual height on that garage. It looked like it was over.

J

30 some feet on one, but I don't know if that you know I'm having a hard time with all those.

J

Foundation raid numbers, but the size of the garage does.

J

Bother me, I outline my concerns in my letter, which um I'm sure you've seen.

J

The other thing is between the house and garage. It will block both of our water views, and I know.

J

The historic district has a purpose to preserve those property values and the water views were.

J

Emphasized at the previous meeting as valuable, and they are valuable to others as well and.

J

The third thing was that praise street is so narrow and the bigger homes that we're.

J

Comparing to are on wider streets marcy street is much wider and salter street is wider and.

J

The setback for this house wasn't specified on those original plans that we saw, so it just does.

J

Concern me that there must be a relationship between the width of your street and the height.

J

Of your building, so it doesn't turn that street into just a back alley. That um anyhow, thank you.

J

Yeah, I think that what you're referring to is what they use in dover, the width of the street.

A

Controls the height of the of the house, you know and or the commercial buildings downtown but sorry.

A

Yeah just enjoy marcy street, that's all so who's next.

Q

We don't have a roster hi, gail hi jim. um I want to just echo what my I'm susan mcdougall. I live.

Q

At 39 praise street I spoke at the previous htc work session via zoom. um I um I've sent a pretty.

Q

Detailed letter to all of you and I sent a copy to jim and gail in a note so that no one was.

Q

Uninformed um and I I would like to um I'd like to keep this brief, but I do think there.

Q

Are some things that I need to say that I was kind of hoping the hdc would say.

Q

So I'm going to go through a couple of the points and just.

Q

Particularly the things that are quoted in your guidelines in the hdc guidelines.

Q

And how my impression of this building, I I had a lot of questions you have them in.

Q

The list- I hope you asked them of, but in this htc guideline, um the first one scale height and width.

Q

It talks about constructing a new building, that's similar in height and width to the buildings.

Q

On adjacent sites, not sites in the neighborhood couple couple of streets over.

Q

But adjacent sites- I think that means the 17 properties that surround this um green I'll.

Q

Call it a green, um so that is one one really important point and throughout your guidelines.

Q

It says this building should be in relation to the buildings on adjacent sites. It mentions it.

Q

In the second part of that, it says, construct a new building. That is, if you want to construct.

Q

A building that is larger than the buildings that are adjacent to it. You should break up the.

Q

Building mass by dividing its height or width, to conform with the adjacent buildings, this is.

Q

One big mass: it's not broken up; okay, so that would be in opposition to what the hcc guidelines state.

Q

Construct portions of the building taller than neighboring buildings, which is the front of this.

Q

Away from the street, so the tallest part of this building is right: smack up against.

Q

The lot line, which is I I mean that's- that back line five feet away from the street, there's a.

Q

There's there's something really missing from these drawings, and that is a person.

Q

In scale the only the only people are up there- I guess it's jim and gail, and I.

Q

Love the idea of that. I totally love the idea of it. But if I move away from the microphone and you.

Q

Take those people- and you put them down by the side of this building the building is gargantuan.

Q

You did hear that the majority of the board has echoed what you're saying right now I did yeah.

A

Okay, I'm just reminding you I did, but you didn't point out that the mat that the height should be.

Q

In the back of the lot- and you didn't point out that the um that the references should.

Q

Be adjacent buildings and you didn't ask that of the applicants architect, so I am concerned about.

Q

Those issues I'm particularly concerned that this building will impact the other.

Q

Buildings straight across from its 17 prey significantly and light, and environmental.

Q

Impact and solar gain were talked about in the first applicant in the first work session. But.

Q

To the advantage of the applicant, but but it creates a disadvantage, I believe, to.

Q

The um buildings across the street, so we haven't seen that we haven't seen any renderings of shade.

Q

Or light impact, we haven't seen whether it would impact the solar gain of the neighboring buildings.

Q

Because we do really want to upgrade our buildings to be environmentally, you know sustainable in.

Q

In our climate change, so that's two things and I know you're in a hurry to go home. But I think.

Q

This is really really important and I don't know that there's an end time for this meeting.

Q

So the next one was similar in form construct a building, that's similar in form.

Q

To the buildings on adjacent sites, this is not similar in form. It's. It takes its elements from.

Q

The prey street property she's, I mean from the marcy street- praise street property the queen anne.

Q

Which we'll see are just elements, but they are not consistent elements within the neighborhood.

Q

It says similar to those found on the block of the proposed building, so it says alignment rhythm.

Q

And spacing new buildings larger than those on the adjacent sites. Only if the larger building.

Q

Is visually divided to suggest smaller building masses? This is one big large mass, not divided, so.

Q

Facade height and proportions are similar to existing adjacent buildings. It's only adjacent.

Q

And actually it's quite larger than the adjacent building that has been referenced.

Q

Which is the marcy street praise street property? So those are my major issues.

Q

And thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We have some other people speaking. Please.

H

Yes, thank you. My name is mark mendenberg and I live at 437, marcy street and gail and jim I've.

H

Heard from all our neighbors that you're about the nicest people in this whole town.

H

And um so no one is here happy to talk about this building in this way, um and I hope that we can all.

H

Be friends and neighbors so and I'm the new one of the newest people, and I mean that sincerely.

H

um So I'm just going to talk about the building I had asked nick if he could.

H

um I'd done a bunch of slides and asked nick if he could show them. uh I don't know if they'll come up.

A

There are there the first five are just texts: I'm not going to take you through this or just texts.

H

For those of us who are not specialists, because it was to remind us what the rules were, but I just.

H

Want to show some graphic images if we're able to do it, got to open it up here. Yeah thanks.

H

And I I don't uh I'm not intending I I I think the comment was made that a majority of the.

H

Commissioners have already felt that there's this is too big a mass, but um you know I come from.

H

New haven connecticut, which is a a raucous town and you learn to count votes and, and you have to.

H

Make the you know we want to make a visual case here, so it just stays with everyone and then.

H

Other other than that we invite you to come, walk the site. You know that all I want to do is just.

H

Show you the visuals and then your decision yeah. So let's, if you don't mind, let's just advance.

H

You'll need the microphone, but I mean just uh let's get past all the tech stuff. You know.

H

Thanks, I appreciate it now there yeah, so this is just yeah, so we can. If we, if we start there.

H

What's the problem, can you make it full screen? It just has to be full screen.

H

So we this this seems really simplistic, but of course this is from the htc's website and it just.

H

Shows when there are a lot of small buildings, you match them and when there's one that's bigger, it.

H

Looks out of place, um we will address 437 rc at the end, I'll show you what it looks like, but you.

H

Know this is the drawing again to the commission. It probably seems like yes, it's a big house.

H

To those of us who live on the block, it's frightening. Actually, it's so big.

H

Everything else is essentially a georgian house, except for.

H

437 marcy, which is very tall, but it's not nearly as big. So if we go to the next one.

H

This is what 445 marcy looked like back to the sanborn fire map from 1910.. There is.

H

A house right there, um it looks like all the other georgian ones right. It's about that size.

H

That doesn't mean it. You would rebuild it this way, but there is, there is a precedent, um and so this.

H

This green has been this way for a very long time. um The jones family, who were referenced a moment.

H

Ago, who owned 437 marcy own this property? At one point um they did they demolished that structure.

H

In the middle and they they moved the candy store uh from newcastle and installed it in the 1950s.

H

um So that's kind of the history how it look. This is just from the portsmouth newspaper, I'm not. I.

H

Wasn't around for all this, um the next one again comes back to I'm keeping the historic map for.

H

The moment, um if I'm off a little bit on scale, I apologize to the architects, but I just wanted to.

H

Say the neighborhood's been this way for a very long time. The map is almost the same, except for.

H

um Mrs sanders building uh to the right of the to this to the river side of the uh the new proposed.

H

Structure under her house is there now, obviously not the three little dwellings, but those are those.

H

Three houses were those are three tiny little dwellings. That's what the neighborhood was.

H

um Nick, if you just I just I want to respect the time of the commission yeah, please keep going.

H

So this is 17 prey which is right across the street, and this is how it scales to.

H

The new house right, it was someone- said that people don't live this way anymore.

H

My friends and neighbors live in that house and I've spent a lot of time there and it is one of.

H

The most joyous houses- I've ever been in it's just small, um but they also have a lot of lands.

H

So I mean I I just want to you know respectfully remind the commissioners that everyone in this.

H

Neighborhood is invested with our lives here. This isn't just these aren't just boxes like.

H

We we've made our homes here right. The next one, I believe, is 437 marcy. That's the big victorian.

H

um Again it it's tall, but it doesn't come close to the size of this building um and and we'll.

H

See in a couple minutes that it's very quickly, this is the block. This is from htc's website.

H

Simple houses, maritime trade houses, essentially, people live in these houses, who are in the trades.

H

Some may have gone to sea um next, one looking back the other way. This is this: the site is.

H

To the right, 17 praise to the left um and that's coming the other way the site is to the left and.

H

17 prays to the right. This is the subject house and now the significance is: let's.

H

Compare it to 17 prey in terms of elevation, and this is the drawing submitted by the architects.

H

And there you can see the gap between the two houses is the width of prey street.

H

It's 17 feet wide. It's incred, it's a lean. It's a little narrow alley. Essentially, we can't get. We.

H

The sanders trucks, the vans- can get up and down, but we can't even get vehicles in to do.

H

Work on our houses like it's that narrow, so the the house, as it appears now in this elevation.

H

Compared to 17 prey, at least to us looks really big right and it's. We already know that it's half.

H

The mass of the biggest current, the building- that's currently there on the corner, 437 the.

H

Next one, this is looking the other way, 17 frays to the left, with the candy store in the middle.

H

And now here's the big house we're all comparing to if you notice it's set back 25 feet from praise.

H

Street, it's actually set it on marcy, which is twice as wide, so we're more than 40 feet. That.

H

House is more than 40 feet across marcy from the other uh georgian across from it, and it's 25 feet.

H

From praise street so the height of it and it's half as wide it's only 2 800 square feet. It has no.

H

Garage, it's got no yard essentially, um and it was built by the residents of 17 prey at one time. They.

H

Built that house for their family- and it wasn't subdivided until the 20th century it was. It was.

H

Kept as two lots for a very long time, so it's kind of an interesting quirk that they built that queen.

H

Anne to be consistent with their view of what the federal neighborhood was like, um this is.

H

Looking the other way to kind of demonstrate that marcy, that's that building's, just not in the way.

H

It's out of the way of everybody and the last one I'll leave you with this, that that queen anne.

H

Built in the 1890s has stood the test of time in this city. It is one of now before we bought it.

H

We walked by it almost every day we were drawn to this neighborhood because of the queen, anne.

H

And then we loved the the federal neighborhood behind it and we took millions of pictures of.

H

It and we thought someday if that ever came on the market, gosh we'd buy it and on a saturday it came.

H

And came came due and we ran over, we bought this house and we couldn't believe we got it.

H

And it's a gem right: it's not it's not comparable to anything else. It defines.

H

This is again from the htc's on website. It defines this historic period and it stood for 125 years.

H

As a as a as a beacon for people, even during bad times, when this neighborhood was dangerous,.

H

And we wish that for jim and gayle's house, I we all wish you have a beautiful house.

H

We just wish that it has both the correct scale and some perhaps the grace that'll stand.

H

The test of time and that's what we wish for everyone here, um we're all just your neighbors.

H

And friends, right right, I mean seriously sincerely thank you for your time. Thank you.

A

K

I'm going to keep this like super brief you're all volunteers.

D

You guys are amazing. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it and when we found out jim and.

K

Gail were going to move next door to us. We were high-fiving each other, we're excited about it.

K

I won't get into the scale, but the I think, the telephone poles that are right across the street.

K

About the same height as our house, which is 28 feet, uh you didn't introduce your I'm sorry.

K

Forgive me no, I'm bruce addison the 17 prey streak. Okay, thank you and when the sun I sent a picture.

K

To isaac, but when the sun is setting where we're going to be in the shade, it's just that simple.

K

You know the owner before us. Gene odeon had cut a tree down to get the sun and now we're gonna.

K

We're gonna lose it so we're you know, we're concerned about that, and I don't know, should I.

K

Bring up water at all, or I've already brought up sun and that's not in our purview either.

D

With the size of water yeah, even with the size, it doesn't affect the decision at all that neighbors.

K

Are in the shade or well? No, that's not what I was saying: okay, go ahead, bring up whatever you want.

K

Everyone's getting tired, so yeah, um I was going to get a couple things. I'd speed up.

K

One more thing is: I am concerned about the water I had I owned a house in massachusetts.

K

And somebody built a house next to me and my basement flooded and my basement was done so.

K

I just hopefully we're all got our arms around because that whole area floods, when it rains a lot.

K

Yeah once again, thank you for everybody. You're welcome doing what you do yeah. Thank you.

J

Like you very much and um your name, please, could you get a little closer to them? Sure can so is.

A

This better, my name, is sally elshout, I'm married to bruce, and I live in uh 17 praise street and.

J

Again, jim and gail, our friends mike the whole family and stuff, and um my mom is very familiar.

J

With uh the jones family and the mar and uh the house and the candy store, but anyway.

J

That's that, but um I guess my point is, I know, we've all hashed it, but I think.

J

Everybody has a right to have a voice, and I we are very concerned about the mass and size.

J

Of the house, in terms of all of the homes in comparison you can see, our house is 25 feet. High.

J

And the keeping of the drawings that I recall is about 47 feet, high.

J

So I'm again just trying to be in character of the community and the homes around it. I.

J

Think it's it's just a it's a massive house if it can be broken up. But what have you.

J

That was the other thing I wanted to see here. We're not 47 feet high. I'm sorry! Well,.

J

Your drawings say 47 feet high, so the quest, so the concern that I have from looking at the drawings.

J

I know there's no basement, you see on average, it's 11 feet, so I I just don't want you off.

O

The wrong track: it's 47 feet above sea level yeah, but ground is already up at like 13 feet. So it's.

O

Yeah and and when you do the building it's 28 feet tall is the building height from the very.

J

Peak you have 47 feet absolutely on it, not to the peak. That's marking above sea level,.

B

That's what she's trying to say: yeah, that's the actual, the height from the ground anyways. It's.

A

Tall keeps going okay, it's tall, it's massive in comparison. Our house is not even 1700 17 square.

J

700 square feet: it's small and we have done as much as we can to bring it back into keeping.

J

um To what the character of the house is, and I'm trying to be, along with other the homes that are.

J

In the neighborhood our house was built in 1780. We also do have a concern about water.

J

The meninberg's house on the corner, for the first time ever they were flooded a couple feet of water.

J

Earlier this year in the storm and their house was done so that it wouldn't flood. I have a great.

J

Concern that you know flooding in our house as well, the house again was built in 1780 and all.

J

The construction going on um and also into you know we were having work done on our house, the the.

J

Street is very narrow. It's very difficult to have construction vehicles there and also um the main.

J

Road for the sanders and all these other people that live on there, but but basically in all, I.

J

Wanted to say that the mass and size of the house, I don't think, is in keeping with the neighborhood.

J

And what what to the htc guidelines are, but absolutely would love to have them as neighbors.

J

And want to have them as neighbors, I'm just saying that, so it's nothing personal. Obviously, thank you.

D

Thank you, okay. Anyone else. It's got 10 more people yeah. They just bring them in.

A

You know about your comments about flooding, basements and and flooding streets and stuff.

A

It's uh obviously this is a problem, that's going to get worse and we all know it and the city is.

A

You know working on prescott park and that's going to be a huge project. That's probably.

A

Going to shock everybody in a lot of neighborhoods when it happens, but it's going to have to happen.

A

And you know, eventually, you might be looking at raising your houses and we do have a.

A

We had some kind of bulletin about raising historic houses. Didn't we nick.

A

Yeah, so we have something like that available and I don't think that just putting street drains in.

A

Is going to help when the water rises up from the river and bubbles up in the street drains.

I

A good thought, those are all very good thoughts, you're up in the air.

A

um So that's just my comments about you, know your water problems um and uh so you've heard and.

A

So you're gonna come up with something else for us. Is it gonna be a month or a couple.

A

Months or do you know be back next month, you'll be back next month. We will okay, so move. Second.

D

Second: okay, all those in favor all right! Thank you for your time, all righty and uh let's hang up.

A

Too many little funny lines and uh that's recording.