City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 2 Nov 2022

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11.2.2022 Historic District Commission

A

All righty welcome to the november 2nd meeting of the historic district commission uh before.

B

We get started, I'm going to read this. The board's action in these matters have been.

B

Deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature, if any person believes any member of the board.

B

Has a conflict of interest? That issue should be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived.

B

um I'd like to do an introduction of members before we get started um at the at my far right.

B

I have dan brown good evening. Yes, mr martin, ryan, hello and reagan rude good evening. My name is john.

B

Wyckoff, this is nick crackman good evening. I'm rich blaylock, our city council, rep good evening.

B

Okay, margo doring, hello and david adam good evening, karen buffard good evening. Okay, so we.

B

Have approval of minutes starting right off here october 5th 2022? Anybody have any comments or.

B

Move approved all those in favor, aye, aye, all those against okay. So now we move on to our.

B

Administrative approvals um nick handles this, so let her go nick. All right. We've.

C

Got nine administrative approval requests for tonight, 11 walden, being the first of all? Is.

C

Anybody want to not participate or pull out something before I start going through them.

C

From the top, are we good okay, so 11 walden street is the first application. That's been on our agenda.

C

For a couple of months, they needed uh zoning relief in order to pursue this application. So.

C

I believe it was continued two consecutive months, so they could get the variances from the board.

C

Of adjustment which they received a couple of weeks ago, so the I marked this tbd only because.

C

um I still didn't see any screening um proposal with this application and I know.

C

That was conveyed through the contingencies to the applicant. It's not that visible from.

C

uh Walden street but at the same time it's on the side of the structure and the structures.

C

Right on the edge of the right-of-way is anybody in the audience that'd be great.

C

Can you just speak to the screening aspect of seeing that from walden? um I wasn't sure.

D

That it needed screening, if it does, we can definitely do that. I did not have a.

D

I didn't know that it was asked for. Oh I'm, the um the hvac contractor yeah. Can you sorry can you.

E

Just introduce yourself yeah hi. My name is jay elsella, the hvac contractor for 11 walden, okay,.

D

um There can definitely be some screening it's between. Do. We have the the pictures yeah. We do.

D

So that second picture is the west wall that one right there and you can see it's between.

D

The two trees and it doesn't stick out past the two trees which I'm not saying.

D

It doesn't need screen, I'm just trying to explain uh where it is, but I imagine some.

D

Sort of uh screening between the two trees um to block it, how far off the building is it.

D

It it's uh the end of the unit is 18 inches off the building. So if there's an 18 inch gap between.

C

The unit it's parallel with the building wall right, it is yeah. I mean we often have a screen.

C

That's on three sides and sometimes there's a cap on it and it's louvered or lattice. Okay,.

C

um Yeah, I mean we've done that before so maybe what we should do is um have that part come back.

C

For administrative approval, yeah and I can give them the example- set that we put together, but we.

C

Could I'm familiar? I think you guys should talk about the conduit there's a lot there.

C

Was this the best way you could you could minimize the conduit on the exterior of the building the.

D

Inside nothing's happening to the inside um and they don't want to disrupt sheetrock and whatnot.

D

um So, as far as I'm aware, this is the the best we could do. It could be painted to the.

D

uh To the color to match the siding, but as you see as it wraps around and then goes up to two.

D

Places to the two second floor rooms and then to the right of the outdoor unit right there. It.

D

um It goes up to the one unit that covers the first floor. First floor is basically one room.

F

May, may I ask if there's a possibility that the line could run up the corner board and go.

F

Across the eave and then go into the house, or does it have to run down the bottom? Well, they.

D

They need to drain um and running on the corner board. You mean up high near the eaves yeah yeah.

F

Instead of running across on the bottom, it turns up immediately and then goes across draining. Does.

D

Become an issue at that point, but um how so because it drains from has to drain gravity.

D

Drain from the interior units to the exterior, um and if we put a line hide across the the.

D

um The trim at the top- we don't want to put it, you know, to get it to drain we'd have to put it.

D

At an angle, which clearly wouldn't look very good well, I think a quarter of an inch, um a foot isn't.

B

That for drainage lines, yep no, so one inch over four feet, but the head: the head: that where you're.

C

Going through the wall is going to be several feet below that um below that eve line right uh well,.

D

We're going to go up as far as we can and then go in. It gets into a knee wall area, and then it will.

D

Go from there to where the indoor unit is so, we we could come out in that trim board at the top.

C

I mean it would be better than what you're showing so I'm sorry so item. To be sure, I.

F

Understand you're going into a knee wall area, so there's a so on that north wall right. There then.

A

The picture story I think, yeah, it's, the the top of that wall is just above the first floor and.

D

It goes into the knee wall of the second floor, yeah, which is like an artificial ceiling margo.

C

If you look there, if you can banner ceilings, a few collaborates down of the first floor right, yeah.

F

That's probably like an 11 12 foot wall.

D

Nine to ten for somewhere earlier. This is an administrative approach yeah, but.

C

Everybody got a better idea, so I, if, if there, if it's okay, to have a pitch, we can definitely put.

D

It up there, I think that would work fine, I think it's hidden and it's generally the back of the.

E

House, anyway, that is the back of the house yeah, so I don't know it's not going to be a super obvious.

E

It's the side, oh, I think I should have decided well. This is the rear, the other's the side. It's.

C

On both sides right there's three of them, two on the back and one on the. What I'm saying is.

E

If it has a slight pitch to it, it's not going to be glaringly obviously sound on the facade.

E

Or anything, so I still think it would be better than up the corner board and across the got it.

C

Okay, I gotta write that down so you're going to have a stipulation, yeah.

B

To bring back some nice looking screens for the screen and and the relocation, what do you want.

D

To see uh for an example, I'm familiar with your examples of the screen and we've done it before.

D

For other projects, what do you want from me to just a submit a choose one? We have many okay, many.

C

That could be appropriate, there choose one and then we'll approve it. Okay, do you need like some.

D

Sort of rendering of it, or at least a plan with a dotted line of where it's going to go or something.

E

Like that and they're all images in our handouts, you could take the image you want. Okay and then.

C

Show where it's going to go so the conduit is going to go up the corner board, not along the.

C

Bottom yeah and then go along the eve line down to the the head right right and then the one on.

D

Can we go to the next picture, which is the west wall they are doing and that one can go straight.

D

Down there, oh yeah see see where the the circle is in the middle, the middle of the wall. It's in.

D

The middle wall, so we could go over to the corner board there. I think it'd be better if it was on.

C

The back corner and came over and down: don't don't you certainly yeah so horizontal from that, so back.

C

Corner up, oh yeah, like all we have to do, is screen the unit yeah and paint all of the and everything.

D

Yes, that's the fields already got that in okay painted to match I'll write it down so I'll, submit.

D

That and it will be um look at it to what next month, yeah sure it'll be a minor thing. Okay for us.

B

Anyways, thank you. Thank you. You all set with me. I think so yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. Okay,.

C

um 60 pen hollow is tracy here yeah. I think there.

C

Are four miscellaneous sort of minor changes to the project at 60 pen hollow.

C

I'd rather have you highlight those they're shown quite clearly in the drawings, in the clouds.

C

But if you could just go over them quickly would be great good evening. Tracy kozak our.

G

Architects, uh yes, so three things uh one is we need we'd like to. We need to add a gutter on.

G

The back roof on that back alley uh with two downspouts. That's the thing. One thing two is.

G

To remove one outdoor countertop on daniel street yep right there, uh it's just not needed, and it's.

G

Kind of a busy pedestrian area, so we want to get rid of that and thing three is the.

G

Second and third floor windows on the street had uh the 1 by 4 wood strapping at the very.

G

Top and bottom going over the glass we'd like to get rid of that as well. Just simplify it.

G

It's a bit of a night maintenance concern for cleaning the windows and maintaining the caulking.

G

And stuff, and there seems to be enough going on as it is, the last image submitted shows one side with.

G

Those trim, pieces removed and one side installed for the drawings, so you can see the difference.

G

We think it just cleans up the facade a bit to not have those extra couple of pieces of trim.

G

One minor modification as to what is submitted on the gutter. What is submitted on the gutter.

G

Was to be the freedom gray, zinc, coated, copper that matches all the other zinc flashing, we'd.

G

Like it to be the patinaed copper so that it matches the roof it's attached to, we.

G

Feel it will disappear better, the same color. We don't want to add any more visual busyness. So.

G

We want to just have it disappear, be the same color as the roof and the downspouts.

G

On what is submitted with the freedom gray again, we'd like to do mill, finish, copper, which will.

G

Better blend in with the brown siding behind it, so not the patina of copper, the patina, copper on the.

G

Horizontal gutter and the downspouts vertically would be just a raw mill, finish: copper, okay,.

G

G

Okay, thank you.

A

Okay: okay, what's next 45 market street, this is a previously approved project and what's proposed.

C

There is, I believe, two primary pieces remove the the recessed deck that was shown and approved.

C

On market street, I'm just going to pull that up. So there was a recessed roof deck on market.

C

Street, as shown on the submitted plans that they they're preferring not to build, I think it related.

C

To the structural rafters and the challenges of putting that in, but they would like to request.

C

Two new skylights, as shown on the plan, if it was anything else you must be here. Let me see.

C

If anybody's here for that project, yeah, is that shannon.

C

Looks like you're doing some additional modifications on the back right. Yes, good.

H

Evening, shannon out there from tiana soccer texts representing the project in the client as nick.

H

Said we'd like to request removal of the market street recess deck. It was a great opportunity.

H

We I really appreciate that you guys approved it the first time, but it came with some pretty.

H

Significant structural challenges to the roof so we'd like to basically not do the recess stack in.

H

In lieu of that, on the opposite side of the street, the other side of the roof put in two skylights.

H

Which you could see in the kind of left upper corner with blue square rectangles? One of the.

H

Other things that we've been working on with the city was the staircase that we originally had in.

H

The back we talked to the fire department and they basically said we could remove it. If we wanted to.

H

So what we wanted to do is remove the staircase down, because we have the appropriate means of.

H

Egress and then that staircase originally was housing, some hvac condensing units, so we kind of.

H

Had them screened, so what we're request testing is with the removal of the stair that the condensers.

H

Are still on that, basically that second floor level deck, but we put a screening wall a little.

H

Bit closer to the alleyway, and we think it's a better application allows better maintenance of.

H

The ec units themselves, so that's what I wanted to present tonight, I'm happy to answer any questions.

F

Is there an example of what the screening looks like.

H

We in the original- I know it's not shown on this one of the original application. We.

H

Had one by six boards that were with a half inch gap just to let air flow.

H

Through them, so that's what we're proposing to do here, the same as previously previously.

C

Anything else thanks, shannon thank you. Okay next is 500 market street and, what's being.

C

Requested here is to replace the wood gutters on this building with aluminum.

C

Everybody's here, for that application.

C

Any concerns with that.

I

Is that just the case style gutter yeah yeah looks like it.

F

Sitting on top of the decorative.

F

It's not going to disturb the decorative. What do you call those things what the dental works.

F

It's above that yeah looks like it's proud of that. Yes, okay, it looks like this room yeah.

F

As long as it's not disturbing that architectural feature, I'm fine with it.

C

Looks like all the dental works visible if you [ __ ] your head down on the image there.

C

You can at least on the printed version you can still see it all, but it's in the shadow of that.

J

The assumption is that they're tearing off the wood gutters and putting this on the same fascia.

J

That is currently holding correct yeah, but that's what I assume as long as that's clear.

C

Or do we want to just to prove it as a replacement in the same location to be.

C

Safe uh in their in existing conditions, photos cut us to rotted out in a need of replacement.

J

Either assume the assumption is that this has got to be in the same replacement, yeah.

K

Okay, anything else on that: okay, 124 state street is a metal fence going to a wood fence.

C

And it's a replace the existing metal vertical cedar fence.

C

Metal with vertical cedar fence five feet with granite posts, it's.

C

You know it could have been a little clearer but yeah, I'm assuming it's the fence in the bottom.

C

That they're, proposing to construct the picture at the bottom of the blue car yeah, is looking.

J

Sidewards at the neighbor's property, correct they co-joined parking or paved parking areas.

J

And this shot of that inside of that cedar fence is from the their shared parking at work. They're.

J

Abutting parking areas, so the assumption to me is, is that this is going to be repeated. The.

J

Metal fence- that's there now is, and no one's going to miss it yeah. It is my take on it at.

J

Least, there's one of these there. The part that I don't understand honestly, having walked to site is.

J

The granite bollard or a poster in the corner, because currently right now, there's a dueling.

J

Telephone poles right where I would think the corner that they're describing is going to be so.

J

Truly made no sense to me, while I think I've got an overview, I don't know how the specifics work.

J

hmm It's also deep from the public way yeah hmm well, provided they could put.

C

The granite posts in they'd certainly be public service lesson well done. Yeah.

C

Let them try it right: yeah, okay, uh number, six, 322 islington street: this is a request.

C

For a previously approved project with that carriage house, uh the main house that it's.

C

Connected to the owner is using green mountain simulated, divided light windows that are wood.

C

He'd like to replace the nine windows that are on the house and possibly the connector.

C

With the same green mountain window, which is a significant upgrade over, what's there yeah.

C

Anybody have any comments on that: okay, 232 court street. This is actually a chimney repair. It's a.

C

Pretty substantial chimney they're proposing as best I could figure to take that down and rebuild.

C

It that's been done, yeah what it's been done. Oh they already did that one. Yes, the staging is.

J

Still there okay, but they have not installed the cap yet so I guess, if you want to try to meddle.

J

um Yeah we could have a conversation about the cap. Yeah, the cap looks pretty it's the buildings only.

J

Has three chimneys and this will be the only one with a cap like that, should be bluestone.

C

Or something shouldn't it with with I've, always argued that these were pretty uh indiscriminately.

J

Industrial looking, but there are plenty of them. It's a thing. That's been repeated many times.

C

Wouldn't it be better if it was painted black, I think it is painted black well, it looks okay.

C

B: powder yeah powder coated, coasted, um stainless steel, black powder coated, okay,.

C

So it is black, you won't see it. Okay, everybody good with that. I didn't realize it had been done.

C

um That happened with the other chimney on that house.

C

Trent um 138 maplewood there are five miscellaneous changes. um I would ask and.

C

If she would come up quickly and present those five changes to this previously approved project.

L

Good evening and whitney an architect for the project um item, one.

L

We want to we're trying to solve where to put the heat pumps and it's a difficult site here,.

L

um Pictures show where the current um door, which we were just going to put a new door in, but.

L

um We're proposing to shift that over closer to the corner of the building, and that would free.

L

Up some space um to put an hvac condenser and a heat bulb pump above it. As you look at the floor,.

L

Plan on the lower part of the page, this is kind of a little alley area between the two you two.

L

Structures on the property and unit one is like 42 inches between the the property we're renovating.

L

And unit one and then there's a little bit of an open area and then there's a alleyway that runs.

L

It's just five feet wide that runs down on the other side, and I was trying to locate these in.

L

A place where they could do snow removal and be able to you know not lose accessibility in the.

L

In this space I didn't show any screening and that it's really hard to see from anywhere on.

L

The property, it's a right-of-way that runs down and, on the other side, we'd originally asked for.

L

um Putting them on the rear of the building but we'd have to get a variance and when.

L

We discussed it with the owner a budding owner who granted us a five-foot easement.

L

In order for us to get windows on that side, he'd preferred it not to be on on.

L

That edge of the building, so that's, why we're moving it to this location.

L

um They'd like to change the siding, the current building, which was renovated. I.

L

Think 10 or 12 years ago has the heart of plank um siding they'd like to use that same siding.

L

On this, in this situation, [music] um I've already discussed the heat pump, location.

L

And then the door that we're relocating on that back corner. You can see unit one unit two and then.

L

There's the deck there are two doors into those units off of that deck and there's a very simple.

L

Shed roof kind of cover, you'd like to repeat that at the at the garage there's no brackets.

L

It's just sort of cantilevered off the building and that location and then on the front door.

L

We're doing a two foot overhang with some brackets um as shown on on the drawing there, the roof pitch.

L

Would match the hip roof of the house of the residence and it's wide enough to accommodate.

L

um The lights that you know we're using on the other part of the garage part of the building.

L

And that is what we're proposing any questions. Does everybody understand that.

A

Yep we're good thanks, yep, all right um number, nine! Last one 348 maplewood: this is the former.

C

Franklin school, I guess annex they are proposing, given all the work they've done on the fire escape.

C

Previously to replace the roof, decking and rail system on that roof, deck on the annex.

C

uh And a major component or design changes moving from a wood decking to trex a synthetic product.

C

So I know um mr gibbs is here somebody from the association to speak to this. If.

C

There are any questions [music] introduce yourself and there it's brian gibb, I'm an.

M

Owner at 348, I'm also the hoa president, I've presented to you on three different occasions.

M

Replacing all the windows and skylights in the building. Thank you for hearing us tonight.

C

Questions so the other main component is moving the.

F

All of the railing closer to the edge of the that's right. That's right! I think page, seven.

M

Nick probably shows the best first picture just to get an orientation of the whole thing.

M

This one, uh let's see, is that seven.

M

um The figures number, I don't see, hd seeing seven, we don't have page numbers.

A

But that's it, that's it. I have it in the printout. Sorry, that's a so. You can see.

M

um The existing structure, you have to stay near the mic, oh yeah, or bring it.

M

With you sorry yeah, you can see the existing structure pretty well and as.

M

Was pointed out, we want to extend it to the edge on both sides. I this is an area where I actually.

M

Would like your guidance, because we have looked at various places around town, there's one that.

M

Matches our fire escape almost precisely in terms of color spindle everything it's on summer street.

M

And in all three of the instances that I've looked at, that railing is right at the edge all around.

M

To me- and I'm not very educated on this, but that look of symmetric and aligned from the.

M

Street looks really really good. I myself think that this looks like a hut on top of the annex.

M

And when you see it from any of the angles that I've presented in the pictures, it's.

M

Unattractive so two two things: replace the wood decking with composite and extend that for sure.

M

All the way to the edges- that's not visible from anywhere on the ground by the way, the.

M

The decking and then the other request is to move those railings and I'm just going.

M

To say 0 to 36 inches in and see if I can get your guidance on what you think will look the.

M

Best and what is best practice and aligned there and those are the significant changes.

B

Okay, any guidance here from our historic guidance committee anything well. I would just add that it's.

I

Going to have to be a 42 inch, rail, that's right and and I'm sorry we we raised it on the fire.

M

Escape and it will be an even line- there's already a about a 12 foot section on the rooftop. That's.

M

Been raised to 42 inches, we're actually probably going to raise it a little bit higher. Just because.

M

When you're at three stories, it feels better to be about 45 to 47 inches, but we're we're planning to.

M

Raise that and it'll be consistent with that first 10 to 12 foot of railing. That's already there.

I

Which I was just going to add that that rail now becomes a significant part of the elevations of of.

I

The suds, yes, I don't see, I don't see what you're, referring to as an example of the.

I

Fire escape and that's what you want. Maybe you could tell me the figure number. Let me see.

M

The bear with me: can you zoom in try to put lots of pictures in here, for you.

M

So on it starts in figure nine. You can see it to the right. You can see the old on the left.

M

And the new on the right, we don't have a figure: nine yeah figure nine's, not on there. It's here. I.

A

Have no idea why it's not there? No! This is not good yeah. Well, here, pass that around okay. It's.

C

The fire escape, can you you have it on the screen nope? I could I have it. I I did print.

M

Out it's pretty yeah, you could hand those out, can I hand those out because it's got the page.

C

Numbers, I'm sorry that that got messed up yeah I'll. Take that back, try go to figure six and.

C

Zoom in with the very left hand side, so the public can see you see it here, but yeah, okay,.

N

Yeah- and you can tell it.

I

Well, I would just continue that the um it would be nice to see what an elevation of.

I

That would be what that would do to the exterior of the building. Additionally,.

I

My my instinct is that you would probably want to bring it in.

I

Anywhere between the foot and foot and a half that's about what, when I've been standing there.

M

It's 12, it's 12 inches at the shortest end and 12 to 18 was what felt right and yet made it appear.

M

Pretty close when you're standing at the street right, which that first section is.

M

Already doing that and that's on page 12 figure 11., that's at that same height and that's where.

M

The fire escape meets the annex roof today, so we would position it aligned with that.

M

At 12, if you recommended that that's 12 inches in um where, where it starts on the roof line,.

B

So I just um would like a question um you're going to use two by two balusters you're, not.

B

Going to be using this latticework flow, that's right, just just exactly the same design, so.

M

Total the type of support that they put for the original four buys up there on the deck.

B

You know 45 degree angles, probably going down to another two by four on the roof itself, so.

B

As not to penetrate the surface, that's right, so you want to put the roof out closer to the edge.

B

Of the building the deck, how yeah the the deck, how are you going to support those four by four posts.

B

So, are you going to actually cut through the roof and put them down through no, the, which is probably.

B

What you should do the and I'm certainly not an architect on page 16 figure 17.. As I understand.

M

It those those black structures there, the black item- and I don't know what those are called- I'm.

M

Sorry, I'm not an architect, as I understand it, the sleepers, those the the four by fours.

M

We already have one um it's it's in that same picture that goes through and is contained in.

M

The square section in the center of that and then is supported by the composite decking.

M

Surrounding it, and those are positioned over the joists um in the rooftop- is how it was designed.

B

The rafters that's right and those are those are those are positioned where.

M

The metal goes up through them and holds down the styrofoam underneath the membrane.

C

I mean the the inspection department will make sure yeah, but you know I think it's.

M

It's they are in the current fire escape and- and this item here, they're very they're, very.

M

Firm that building used to be really scary to go up the fire escape or standing on the roof was.

M

A nightmare and all of those four by fours that have been positioned. You can't hardly move them.

K

Okay, that's good okay, so you're proposing to move the deck out, 12, inches or more off the edge of.

C

The the roof inboard of the edge- yes, um I have a question: had you considered it all a metal railing.

M

We um we did reagan and there were a couple of things that um pushed us away from that price. It.

M

Was kind of the first one and because we already had that section and the fire escape. And because.

M

All of this can match it to where it's almost the exact look. We didn't look at it anymore. It's quite.

M

A bit more expensive, if you look on that page 17, when when I saw this, I went and saw this in person.

M

And snapped it and I'm like okay, when I could see it across a good expanse. I'm like that looks.

M

Pretty decent, I mean we would be open to it, but I did look at the tracks version of it and it was.

M

Substantially more expensive and I was concerned that it was going to give a different appearance.

M

And we were going to have to remove that first 10 foot section because otherwise you're going.

M

To see a 10 foot section and then you're going to see this new stuff and it's not going to give.

M

The appearance of a uniform front does it make sense? No, it does. I just was wondering because it.

E

I think you could achieve a lighter look with a metal railing. It wouldn't be quite so heavy and so.

E

um Sort of black and solid as the as the uh example that you gave is there there's.

M

A little bit of benefit in in how solid it is because, when you're standing on that very top.

M

Crow's nest, the fact that that's actually pretty dense and at the right height it makes it feel.

M

A lot more secure and I had some concern that a thinner railing might look better.

M

But not give the same, I you know I'm going to be nervous all the time when people are up on.

M

That roof and approaching the edge, which is why I want to keep it a reasonable part. So.

M

I myself, you guys, are the experts but having traversed that and stood up there a lot. The.

M

Current design and how strong it is and its size and everything feels a lot safer to me.

B

Okay, all right so 12 inches inboard of the edge of the roof or more. That's I'd like to ask for.

M

12 to 18., okay, yeah and you're, going to match the material and the style of the existing fire.

C

Escape yeah and as in the pictures, the composite matches wonderfully. If you saw the picture the.

M

Composite matches almost perfectly yep, okay, good enough, mr chairman yeah. Yes,.

J

um Looking at your brochure uh on page 17, the lower photograph you know shows.

J

Of a a horizontal panel of some sort, uh heavy trim material uh that exists between ice and the roof.

J

Itself and where the ballast rod begins yeah. Is that your intention to provide you brought it up.

J

David, I I actually was going to ask your for your input on that. There is going to be. I don't know.

M

The exact number of inches, but there will be four inches or more of the where the deck is separated.

M

From the roof- and so yes I having seen this- and I don't know what this is called- this is the first.

M

Time that I've seen it, I was going to propose that we do have that so that from the street.

M

Side, you won't be able to see the gap, the pressure treated yeah yeah. It could be in the parlors yeah.

I

It is referred to as a skirt a skirt, a skirt board, okay, um but I I think that that would be.

J

A granted, if you get further from the edge of the roof, the opportunity for the public to see.

J

That diminishes, but I would feel more confident launching into this thing not having any idea.

J

Of the perspective, I think that this would be a better way of finishing a good workman-like.

J

Manner to it also keeps leaves and debris from blowing in and clogging things, and I I like it.

M

And thank you for the additional insight we'll be happy to add that yeah. Thank you very much.

K

Okay, anything else, okay, so a few stipulations that I wrote down.

C

On this one, uh the decks will be located at least 12 to 18 inches from the roof edge.

C

And a skirt board shall be added below the deck and no and no diagonal bracing yeah.

C

No diagonal bracing shall be used.

C

Bear with me here.

B

Okay, the future they might end up with a few brackets here and there well we'll see what.

B

When those posts start doing that, yeah well, hopefully they're all on the inside.

B

um Yes, they would have to be okay, so that the other stipulations. I think, I think what we agreed.

C

To do on, walden was only have them come back to the screen. I think we resolved the other issues so.

C

They can get started so the uh the exposed conduit shall be relocated to the rear corner board and.

C

Along the the uh is it the priest board uh on the top uh to the head locations, and it shall.

C

Be painted to match the siding, which I think they said, but let's put it in. There is a trim color s.

C

um And then number three, I guess uh this a screen shall be added and submitted for.

C

Administrative approval, something like that. Okay, I don't with. I didn't, write anything else down.

C

Anywhere, I think we didn't have any okay that work. Yeah, okay, go on uh looking for a motion.

E

The move that we approve these administrative approvals with the stipulations that have been.

E

Read second, all those in favor all right all right, so you have your approval for.

B

These administrative approvals um see we have certificate of approval, extension requests.

B

And we have a number of postponements, so I think I'm going to read these postponements.

B

um So that we can get these out of the way public hearing old business, a request.

B

To postpone 43 holmes court llc owner for property located at 43 holmes, court.

B

K b, request to postpone petition of sheep street condominium association owners and.

B

The smith family declaration of trust, todd c smith, applicant for 159 state street.

B

Request number c excuse me, letter c request to postpone.

B

Petition of seacoast management, consulting llc owner for property, located at 3, walton alley.

B

And d request to postpone petition of pickering wharf condominium association, property located.

B

At 33, south mill street is request to postpone. We have one more under public hearings, new business.

B

Request to postpone dagny taggart llc owner for property located at 93, pleasant street.

B

So could I have a motion? Yeah. Do you have a question? Yes, sir? I'm a butter of d of d, yeah.

K

Should I pull out it's just a post shoot on that one and I think we all agreed on b.

C

That we would not continue that for the seventh time and they would require re-notification to.

C

Come back, it's just been too long, and I think the abutters well might be interested in that.

C

So I I would recommend you, you do the four uh postponements if you want and that item b for.

C

159 state street yeah, I mean dan, you could just you know, pull yourself out of these four anyways.

B

And uh karen would vote and then we'll um talk about b, fair enough, okay! So there's that motion.

E

The second and all those in favor, all right, yes, okay, so we have postponed those so b. Is the.

B

um As nick has just said that this has been postponed and brought up more times than any.

B

Of us can remember, and so we're not going to postpone to an indefinition, do you need.

E

A motion to just terminate the post, I think, deny the deny the postponement and state. Why.

C

It's had at least a half dozen continuances. I don't know the exact number, but it's it's not.

C

Less than six fine, I move that we deny the request to postpone for b um simply because it's been.

E

Postponed way too many times, and so when they're ready, they can refile and actually come back to us.

C

So the abutters have an opportunity to participate again, yeah. Second, all right, all those in favor.

B

Alrighty so we've denied that and then we're moving on to public hearings, new business.

J

Expansion request extension request. First, isn't it yeah you're, correct sorry.

B

Number three certificate of approval for an extension request: request of 238 deer street llc.

B

Owner for property located at 238 deer street, wherein permission is requested to allow the.

B

First, one-year extension of the certificate of approval originally approved november 3rd 2021.

B

So the demolition of the existing structure and the construction of a new three to four.

B

Story, mixed-use building as per plans on file in the planning department, said property is shown.

B

On assessor map 125 as lot 3 within character, district 4, downtown overlay and historic districts.

B

So is anyone here to present this? Well, we usually have a presentation for no, no, no.

B

um So would somebody like to make a motion on this.

B

Little explanation: I can give you a little explanation as best I know it from talking.

C

To the applicant, they they went through attack and the planning board they've had all the approvals. I.

C

Think the htc might have been the first one they received, they have bid the project and I think.

C

The cost uh construction costs have come in higher than they expected, which isn't shocking. These days,.

C

So they're taking a little more time to figure out their next steps and they need the extension.

F

Should be approved, the extension request, a second okay, all those in favor.

B

Aye again, all right, so you have your extension.

B

Now, we've skipped over old business every one of them.

B

24. public hearings, new business petition of nelia llc owner for property located at 324, maplewood.

B

Avenue wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure.

B

Two windows: doors citing another exterior elements, as per plans on.

B

File in the planning department said, property is shown on assessor map 141 as lot 1 and lies.

B

Within character, district, 4-l2 and historic districts, and who was here to present this.

O

Good evening, good evening, brendan mcnamara, I'm the designer on the project for nicole abshire.

O

um We are now back before you. We did a work session a few months ago and got the sense.

O

Of concerns with the hcc, but we did have to go before the board of adjustment, because this is.

O

A con a use conversion as well. It's currently a garage. It has been used as partially as a.

O

Showroom for the cabinet um business, that's in the adjoining house. um It went before the.

O

Board of adjustment to get the conversion to uh single residents, which was approved.

O

um So and we've made some adjustments to the appearance of the proposed um redressing if.

O

You like of the exterior of this building, but it's in the context of moving from a garage to a.

O

One bedroom unit, but continue to have parking so the this property you know goes back to the.

O

Early 1800s, you know their the corner house, I think is, is on my notes. There goes back to some.

O

Of the very early maps on the town- and there was a structure where the garage was, but apparently this.

O

Dates back to 1948, as you can see, the appearance was in the photograph there from the portsmouth.

O

um F m: um it has been worked over a number of times since then um and we are suggesting working.

O

It over again and improving its appearance as much as possible within the context of.

O

The geometry that currently exists- if you move to the next slide, you'll see the elevations.

O

As I said at the work session, you know there's limits to what we could do in terms of concerns.

O

That were expressed at the work session. One of the biggest concerns was I'd shown it with shingles.

O

And but have shown it with clipboards as it is now, and it's a very similar window arrangement.

O

That was shown on the work session application, but it's still working to, as you can see, the.

O

The shed roof: that's there redoing the area of the pitch with a standard head of detail going around.

O

So that's fairly straightforward. It's a a limited.

O

um Amount of work to an existing building, but to make it more attractive than it currently is.

O

Oh, that's: it yeah any heavy to answer any questions. Okay, quest, everyone, I'll.

E

Just say that I appreciate the arrangement of the facade with the windows, because it actually shows.

E

Its previous life as a garage better than what it looks like now, which was the intent no obviously.

E

Yeah yeah, so I I was saying I appreciate that I think that's a a nice arrangement.

B

Anybody on my left, um I think it's a definitely improvement to the current structure.

N

um I like that it tells the story that it used to be garage, so the history is lost, but I think it's an improvement in the neighborhood.

K

Will the heat pump need screening.

K

um We could, if, if you felt that that was going to be seen from the street, it couldn't be seen.

O

From the street absolutely yeah, um it's actually just over the top there's a small retaining wall.

O

That is at the your nose in with the parking and there's a small. It's like 18 inches tall, and it.

O

Would be sitting up on the upper level, but it certainly um would consider putting screening.

O

Across it- or you know, my preference would be to try and do it in something vegetative, but.

B

You're in the manner of maybe like a cable fencing system that allowed a vine to grow.

O

On it, rather than just doing some sort of slighted fence, yeah yeah,.

C

It'd be great to see that drawn up. Certainly, we don't have that. No, no um certainly can.

O

Include it as a stipulation, it does have a rather large electrical mast right there also good, so.

O

It would be, you know, it's always going to be the preference to try and take.

O

That underground, but not actually sure if we can so we show that as it currently is.

K

David, uh I appreciate the uh approach to the making the renovations to this building is.

J

Just it's kind of a shame that this represents an architectural low moment in the city of portsmouth.

J

uh That they're trying to preserve, uh I was kind of hoping something more creative or if spirited.

J

uh It's I I I'm puzzles to why you can't even bring the panels that you're putting in the upper.

J

Level of the facade in any alignment with the windows or doors of the building, it seems like.

J

It's just it's. uh I've got nothing positive to say. Okay, sorry,.

O

Tried just couldn't get the math to work. Yeah.

O

um There's some interior walls that need to be preserved and put something in there. Martin.

B

Yeah no, I would just simply say that it's, it's really a cleaning up of the building.

I

It's and I think maybe some people would like there to be something more ambitious. um I think.

I

This is a budget cleanup to make this uh change their use happen and I can support it. Thank you.

P

I agree, um use commercially and it's in a residential neighborhood and.

P

This definitely makes it more in keeping with that.

E

I guess my only question would be: the door is mostly glass which seems like it wouldn't.

E

Offer a whole lot of privacy to well. That's not actually, so, on the right hand, you mean the the.

O

Access tool, the person door here, yeah yeah um they're- definitely we're going to use a sheer.

O

Curtain on on the inside, however, it's that is the sunny side. So it's just a real shame to.

O

Actually, completely preclude the sun from coming in. It's actually quite deep, you know, look if you.

O

Go in there now it's dark, so it's really just trying to get some natural light in there. Okay,.

B

Could always look on the bright side of life? Yes, um the only thing that I could say about this.

B

Whole project is, um I would strongly urge whoever is doing it to paint the whole structure. One color.

B

Not to accent the trim, because I I think that that's you know that accenting, that band upon.

B

The top, especially where it tapers down with the roof and such it would just be better if.

B

It all died into one color in my opinion and there's nothing that you know we can say about.

B

That, but I would hope totally agree. You know, got a bit burnt on the work session. Approval.

O

And that it was trying to make it very, you know low reflective, monotone and even be better, and it.

O

Was not well received so um sort of stepped away from commitment to color at this point, but yes.

O

We would like it to be darker and not reflective and monochromatic would be great yeah all righty.

B

So, okay uh missed anybody in the public um would like to speak on this particular project.

M

Ironically, brian gibb 348 maplewood, ironically, as you saw in the pictures nicole and I are neighbors.

M

And a butter, so we've been discussing these two projects back and forth and to keep it brief.

M

um I kind of understand the history of the garage, but the garage is.

M

Ugly, I'm glad that it's being preserved at a single story and.

M

I think the appearance changes are going to make it much better, so I'm supportive of it.

B

Okay, anybody else anyone online nick. No! No! I'm sorry. Could I ask one follow-up question.

F

Yes, one follow-up question: um I'm trying to make out the materials of the garage door.

F

In the specifications I'm not quite is it are they? I have called that a.

O

Specification which you're quite welcome to um uh change, but I have called it out.

O

As a composite material, which is the either the lp smart side or the boral, true style,.

O

So it is composite products, and that would be in keeping with what would be on the garage door.

F

It's a custom-made door. Yes, yes, yeah.

G

The clapboard material is lp smart side.

O

It's a composite, it's um I think. Technically, it's it's wood dust mixed with glue, yeah wood dust.

O

Is your collaborative material mixed with food you're not familiar with the lp smart side? You.

J

Know honestly, this may be a acoustics or my age, but I can't understand what you're saying that's.

O

It's called lp smart side, it's um smart side, yes, lp, smart, siding, yeah, it's a composite material.

C

That's, I think it is wood based. Yes, yeah plenty of well newspapers, the wood-based off yeah yeah right.

J

um Adding a corner trim, the corner stream would also the lp. Smart side makes a whole trim package.

O

So they're um they're a large corner board and that would be, if allowed in your whole product.

O

No, it's it's! It's a more developed version of the cementius board. You know by hardy, so it's a.

O

Solid product, but it's not a cementious board and the panel edge the panel material on the.

J

Roof be the same yeah so so this is all composite materials on the outside yeah until it rains it's.

B

Okay is that is that the the condition of the uh no register that okay? Thank you very much, mr.

B

um Did I close the public area yet not yet? No, no, okay, but soon enough, I've closed this.

B

Public hearing and I'm looking for suggestion here and somebody please justify their decision.

B

Like anybody going to make emotions, I will I will move that we approve this as presented a second.

E

Ready it preserves the integrity, uh it's it. It.

I

Enhances property values and is consistent with the surrounding properties.

B

Okay, that's enough eh! Okay, so all those in favor say aye, aye, chair, says aye and.

B

Against opposed opposed also opposed, based on a picture based on material choices. One two three.

C

Five two, so you have your approval. Thank you very much.

B

Petition of lucky 13 properties, llc owner for property, located at 361, islington street.

B

Wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure.

B

Add side and rear, editions and renovations to an existing structure. New siding windows.

B

And mechanical screening, as per plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on.

B

Assessor map 144 as lot 23 lies within character, district 4-l2 and historic district present. This.

Q

Hello, welcome. Welcome give your name please. My name is robert whitemire, with winterhoban, okay,.

Q

We were here two months ago on a work session and uh took from that a few points of suggestion, but.

Q

For the most part, the suggestion was kind of keep it the way we presented it. So hopefully.

Q

This is a little fairly familiar. We kind of roll through this pretty quickly. I would think.

Q

um Next sheet, just sort of gives us some existing photos. What's going on, can you bring.

E

The microphone closer to your mouth, oh yeah, as a soft-spoken person- I I sympathize but oh I can't.

Q

Hear you, I do not get told I'm a soft-spoken person very often, so thank you um so as I was.

Q

Mentioning we get existing photos, I think most everybody here is very familiar with this site.

Q

um You know it it hasn't gotten prettier currently um as we cruise along. I think we just kind of.

Q

Have some existing conditions that we can again kind of just roll through quickly if we'd, like.

Q

um You get to sort of the uh the intent of what we're looking to to do, which again is to be a.

Q

Hey uh bagel centric restaurant.

Q

But you know utilizing and keeping you know looking to keep some of the canopy for some.

Q

Outdoor seeding, keeping sort of the gas station look, um but you know renovating it as such, which.

Q

Is why some of these additions are being added on to make it a functional restaurant space?.

Q

You know that's, I believe one of the comments was about the the outdoor seating and the.

Q

Canopy and trying to bring um some elements down to just get it more to a human scale.

Q

um We've got basically, you know we're looking at just kind of doing some string, light element.

Q

And possibly some other just lighting elements in that area down at more of.

Q

A human scale at the ceiling height essentially or a fake ceiling height, as it were absolutely.

B

um Is there a food truck included in this? No no food truck okay, the existing.

E

Because this all yeah, that's that's basically the last plan all right.

B

That's that's what that was a little give you an idea: yep nope, no food truck.

Q

So yeah this kind of shows the additions here. So the main edition out the back.

Q

As you can see is mainly for kitchen um and some public restrooms off to the.

Q

Side there is just to kind of get a little bank out of seating on the interior portion.

Q

So yeah hard lines of sort of what we got, you can kind of see where we're looking.

Q

To drop the uh string lights just to kind of lower that canopy feel.

Q

Down for the people that are sitting outdoors during well days like today,.

J

Will the string lights be on some sort of a grid or there's just going to be bulbs hanging from.

J

Wires, I mean it always is going to be. You know the standard wire with the bulb setting. You know.

Q

Hanging, um I mean outside of, I believe, like the connection, points are sort of either side of the.

Q

Overhead doors going out to the canopy support structure so there'll be some sort of like v.

Q

Sort of uh it's not a grid, but there is some sort.

Q

Of a pattern to it, just because of the way it's going to be attached.

B

Good question this could come back to us through electrical inspection or something like that in.

B

Which case you'd just come back for administrative approval, if you had to support that, they would.

R

Hang on in in your drawings, if, if we can we're moving along on this, uh um I am go for it. Your.

J

Additions are very blank sided. The addition to the kitchen audition seems to have no openings.

J

In it whatsoever, it's just a blank paneled side panel. What are the panels um right now? We're.

Q

Looking at doing just uh like large cement board panels painted basically trying to make them as.

Q

You know yeah playing really, I mean they're off to the back of the building. um We really don't.

Q

Want to draw too much attention to them. It's just sort of the utilitarian portion of the structure.

J

So there, when you these, are just pieces of uh hardie board yeah four by eight sheets.

J

Are there? Is there texture to them.

Q

I mean I would outside of just like the uh edge detailing and whatnot. What's the edge detailing.

Q

It looked too thoroughly at it. At this point I mean we're going to have to have some sort of.

Q

Either a reveal or some sort of flashing point at each of those horizontals, so we.

Q

Could probably pull like a nice little horizontal line across there and give it a little bit of.

Q

A little bit of interest, but you know, like a like, I said I mean it's, it's more. A utilitarian portion.

Q

On that, where you know we want the focus to be on the actual front of the structure and the uh you.

Q

Know the existing gas station above that back wall, section of the kitchen um there's a metal.

J

A mechanical screening: what's that material uh that right there, at least at this point.

Q

Is shown as just a corrugated metal screening element, you know corrugated metal like roofing.

Q

No not so much they make like a pre-finished corrugated metal panel system galvanized. uh You.

Q

Know it probably is going to be some sort of uh powder coat finish that's going to fit with the.

Q

um Overall color scheme of the there's a photo shown on a 9.0 kind of a sample of that.

B

Corrugated metal, I see that yeah there bottom right give you at least an idea of.

Q

We figure something like that is going to look better than an exhaust fan and makeup air and.

Q

Hvac unit- and you know this pesky utilities that make the building work.

F

So this area that david was inquiring about is not the wood plank example shown here.

F

The wood plank example is more with the fence along the back statement.

Q

um Portions of the front area, where we've got sort of a planner, slash, standing.

Q

Rail along the front, more were the pedestrian. Where you know, people are going to actually.

Q

Interact, that's where we look to get a softer sort of finish, and I understand your desire to.

F

um Well, I guess maybe I don't understand uh your approach to the back side. I mean you have.

F

Neighbors back there and they have to look at this. I think they're going to look mainly at the back.

Q

Of a uh retention wall and fence would be my guess, because they're lower, if I recall right, okay, it's.

F

A three-story building, is it not back there that house you have to go to the mic. Please yeah is.

R

It so weird announce yourself: sorry, I'm I'm jeff dyer uh part of the the team developing this. We.

R

Worked with uh piscataqua last week to look at the age of the tree, that's in the back there about 100.

R

Year old oak tree, um the site design has been uh edited to reflect that we're going to try and keep.

R

The tree provided that we get the attack approval, um but that's really interesting how you do that.

C

I'm on tech and that that tree looks like it's in the middle of your driveway, so uh eric yeah, how he.

R

How he does things I I don't know, I'm not I'm not an engineer because he's a lot smarter than I am.

R

But uh basically we're gonna have a jog of that back driveway, removing one of the parking spots.

R

Pushing the entrance and exit back from the middle of cabot to the back of the lot, so that there's.

R

One in and out to the parking area, actually you end up right, gaining more parking, buy it so.

R

um Okay, which would be great, but I think, that'll screen a lot of the back neighbors as well.

R

um Very and again to robert's point: there's going to be a pretty significant retaining wall back.

R

There, so that's what they'll look at from the ground level. Yes, it is a three-story building.

R

But they're almost entirely encompassed by that tree that you is again it's a beautiful oak tree.

R

So the idea that we're trying to keep that kind of that natural barrier between the neighborhood.

R

And us we want to be, you know again: good neighbors and and stewards and the screening on top. I think.

R

We're very open to making it match the fencing as well. um I mean I think, that the idea what robert.

R

Is is suggesting the the corrugated metal is a is a nice option. It's pretty monotone.

R

um And it would kind of blend into the existing structure of I mean, let's be honest, it's a it's a.

R

Cinder block building. Yes, it's historic, but it's a it's a center block building and I think the idea.

R

Of the panels is just to enlarge the cinder block as well so kind of those architectural details.

R

Yes, they make a difference, but I think um that what david is saying is that we don't.

B

Have any details for the corrugated metal as far as the ends are going to be, for instance,.

B

Is it going to have like corner boards, or is this just going to be one piece screwed.

B

Onto another and the hardy board, which is on the kitchen edition, I think it is.

B

We don't know how that's going to be finished off. That probably would have to have corner boards on.

B

It in my opinion, but um so you could lighter them at the at the end. Yet it's probably better to have.

R

Corner boards, the the larger panels- mitering them- would be kind of interesting, yeah yeah. It would be.

R

Really fun to try and work through um and keep it here, but yeah we you could you could do that.

R

um You know again it's a it's a pretty rigid building to begin with, so the idea that.

R

Which is literally enlarging the idea of a rectangle and making it bigger in proportion.

R

um Was kind of my my aesthetic when we, when we looked at this.

C

um If you're going to miter, did you think about stucco, it's a much easier material to do that.

C

Already bored certainly is, but uh I don't know that uh I don't know what the the design architect.

R

Over here he's the he's, the real brains behind it, but uh and again for the corrugated metal.

R

Yes, you would have a corner, a corner board too, to keep it fastened. Okay, so you understand, you know.

B

Where we're coming from, you know a couple missions here, you really don't see it from the front. um You.

R

See it from cabot street, but you don't see it from you, wouldn't see it from islington yeah. So um does.

B

Anybody else have any questions comments. [music] It's elections. I have questions um about the.

E

Open canopy sort of trellis design. um I just want to make sure that what you're proposing is.

E

Kind of what we're seeing in the um the renderings, because you've got some examples at the end.

E

And I just didn't know if you were if these were just sort of like just idea.

E

Examples or, if you're, actually going to like copy any of these, no the examples at the end.

Q

Are sort of ideas? Okay, just give you the idea. um What you see in the renderings is.

Q

um Our understanding of how that the structure for that canopy actually is or near to you know.

Q

Once we start peeling off the skin, we'll get a better idea of what's actually there, but I.

Q

Mean the basic concept is just from the columns you get the main beams, then you just have some.

Q

Basic tendons, there's going to be some more likely, there's going to be some cross bracing going on.

Q

Which you know, at least in our opinion, just adds to the visual interest of of that. So.

D

You happy with that martin. um Well, this is a modern building, yeah and you're, not.

I

Going to put corner boards on a it's, a modern detail, it's supposed to be.

I

Streamlined very thin lined you may put a gap between some of your your boards. You do show.

I

These hardy panels on your last page here and they're they're factory, finished.

I

um I would prefer that you went that way instead of a painted panel. It's um I mean that's it. I I.

Q

Know what you're saying for sure? Because the factory finishes just more durable and such.

Q

um Some some of our experience with that is that the detailing between the panels and whatnot isn't.

Q

As clean because you don't get to use the paint to try to blend everything, does that make sense.

Q

Essentially, if you start putting paint on a factory finished already panel, you typically.

Q

Lose the warranty, so that means you're relying on you know: nice, clean installation, nice sealant.

Q

Where needed, good, flashing and- and you know things I'm not saying it can't be done, but.

Q

You don't have as much room for air on that. I'm not like. I said I at this point. I don't think.

Q

We've really discussed whether we want to go with a factory finish or with a paint finish. It's just.

Q

Something from our experience, okay, I think that, if, if you want to do it correctly, you are showing the.

I

Lines in the elevation, if I were you I'd I'd, find a product like a like a like a trim bead that that.

I

Would create a reveal you get a much crisp looking, you know you, you looks like you want to show the.

I

Each panel, all the edges, uh you know to just put up a generic panel and just paint it over- is not.

I

As nice a detail as as what could be done um again, you know I'm I'm.

I

Not asking you to to go the extra mile on the back of this building, because.

I

It never really had that uh back of a built back of the building appeal anyway. This is a.

I

Commercial building you, I can't see opportunities for windows in a plan, because it's all kitchen and.

I

Utilities, but maybe if you just want a little bit of an extra mile, um I'm seeing modern detailing.

I

I'd like to see better modern detailing to just cut to the chase. Sure I mean I I'm gonna agree.

Q

You know I I don't want to disagree with that. At all I mean ideally yeah we'd get some nice.

Q

Reveals going on with the panels- and uh you know just give it a sleek simple, look right.

I

Because you are improving this building from from what it is and- and you know we're we're just.

I

I don't see much change from the last time you presented it. I think it's, it's a wonderful.

I

Opportunity for this site- and uh I can support it. I just I think there are a few people here.

I

Would be a lot more comfortable if, if some of the minutia was worked out, thank you. Can we ask.

E

Develop that right right, I think where's, the dumpster.

Q

No dumpster just a tote enclosure uh adjacent the rear door, yeah, which I mean that I.

Q

Think the plant and basically adjacent the bathrooms right.

Q

There there's a little five foot by ten foot yep right there, the gray box.

B

Meat or anything.

B

Today, yeah in the future, yeah uh-huh, when you want a bagel with bacon you're going to be upset the.

Q

Thing on me, so um I would like to say thank you for making the effort of saving the tree the tree.

F

Has spent a lot of time and energy being there. No, I mean between the town, voicing their opinion and.

Q

These guys hearing that and saying okay. Well, let's look at it and see what can be done and.

F

We appreciate that, and um it is unfortunately it's a deciduous so half half of the year it.

F

Does not providing as much screening of the back of the building, so I would encourage.

F

um You all to come back with details specifically on how the back the back panel paneling is going.

F

To work, um and my only concern for the canopy is lighting for the with regard to how it affects the.

F

Neighbors that we balance between providing enough light for people to see what they're.

F

Eating making it inviting to them cozy and how that may or may not bleed out to the residences.

F

People are trying to sleep in outside. That's that's. We understand, I believe, concerns part.

Q

Of tech correct, I think we have a work session that we've basically got the lighting sort of.

A

Otherwise, it's getting close at least laid out. I don't know if we gave you the full thing or not.

Q

But we're working on just you know: foot candles where the cutoffs are and all of that so yeah.

Q

I mean that that is in process, so um just to round up what you're doing with the canopy is.

B

um It looks like from page uh 8.8 8.1 that the can of you're removing the material from the canopy.

B

All the way back to where the posts are basically I mean if we took just like the middle top image.

Q

Right there right, essentially, everything from those columns towards islington are going away.

Q

And then, from the third column, going back back towards the building, so it'll be an l-shaped sort.

B

Of whatever is left structurally in the canopy is what you that's, what we're going to be there.

Q

Yes, okay. Thank you very much. Yeah david, um I'm, assuming that the two party boarded editions.

J

The kitchen and seating area are flat roofed with some sort of edpm roofing material, yep.

J

It usually has some sort of a curb perimeter to the sidewall where it attaches.

J

I don't see that even hinted at here. Here's the thing: it's not that it's a make or break thing, but.

J

If, if I don't ask the question and you come back and say well, my roofer had this stuff left over.

J

From another job I I won't have to go through that. Why didn't I say something: is this all about how.

J

I'm sometimes a bad boy yeah this gupper type of situation, something about no, I mean we're again.

Q

In process uh with, because we have a tack work session next week, I believe uh so we're looking.

Q

At at least initial thoughts are sloping from the building towards the back gutter along the back.

N

Drain the downspouts on either side of that and that'll be what it is. The drawings at least the.

Q

Hard line, drawings here show sort of a thin little two inch three inch drip edge on it right now,.

Q

So I mean it's going to be just a very again thin sort of gravel stop drip edge detail there.

Q

um I'd love to make your word for it, but if you could put something like that in a little detail,.

J

On a piece of paper that would make me and no doubt your roofing contractor, really happy to see.

B

He's got a bid on it right yeah. I think yeah well anyway, exactly but he's not going to bid.

Q

On something that doesn't get approved, so you got a whole chicken and egg thing going on here. Oh I.

B

Am the chicken before we get too far I'll carried away here? Anybody else you're the rooster david.

B

Come on public, oh I just I just have a comment about. Certainly you know, there's there's a big.

C

Sign out there and your site plan says you're gonna preserve that sign the freestanding sign.

C

Would seem to me that needs to be detailed, and I would hope it's not an internally.

C

Plastic lit internally lit plastic sign like it was when it was last used.

C

It you know, I'm interested in what you're doing, and I think it'd be good for this project to and.

C

This commission to see that before it's approved, yeah right now I mean that makes sense. I mean.

Q

I don't really talked too much about, I mean I guess the idea is.

Q

The sign is part of the gas station, so if there's a way we can look to reuse that sign and.

Q

You know uh bagels whatever per dozen or something like that, as opposed to per gallon and kind of you.

Q

Know play off of that. Possibly yeah and you've got to keep away from this, because this is part.

B

Of our guidelines that we have no internally lit signs, huh okay, so you definitely have to.

Q

That's not grandfathered you'd have to come back um if you're, taking it off and putting.

B

It back on, I think it's abandoned, I mean I don't know. I honestly I mean it's something.

Q

That I understand, if we keep the sign, we'll definitely make sure you guys make this solid.

C

Well, yeah, I get that and have you told us what you're doing with the getty part of.

C

The sign on the canopy it looks on your lower left image like there's.

C

Some red lettering down there yeah, I mean the getty portion. I believe.

Q

Is going away and being replaced with something else, it will be replaced with.

Q

Something based off of what sort of branding these guys come up with and they down here you know.

Q

So there'll be some sort of spanner graphic again kind of the.

Q

uh Call back the whole gas station field, but.

A

Both of them now yeah they're, not grandfathered, the gas station thing. That's sitting there on a.

B

Corner of visiting the street had to ask right: is there anybody else, hmm nope nope? Let me look.

C

Online anybody in the public would like to comment on this proposal not seeing any hands.

B

All righty: well I'm going to close this public hearing. [music] You have some.

F

I'm just I'm yeah, there's so many movies, so many loose ends. I was gonna make.

E

I was gonna make a motion to approve this with an understanding. This is the approval.

E

For just the basic concept and general idea of this, we still don't have a whole lot of.

E

um Detail details and things like that, so I would I'm happy to um to move that this.

E

Be approved with the understanding that details for the roofing details for the composite siding.

E

um Any plans with the signage all come back to us at some point. If that's what you need to move.

E

Forward, otherwise, I would normally we would say, come back when you have all these details.

E

So could we ask, could we ask the applicant if there is a pressing need to get it done tonight.

F

Because I would, I would feel more comfortable if we asked them if we gave them a continuance.

F

And they came back on all these things and tack and everything we do have a need with.

R

The purchase and sale of the property- okay, we need to have approvals in order to do so.

R

um I don't believe that a pending approval will be yeah, so you see where we're coming from, but you're.

C

Not going to be able to get a building permit with the outstanding I mean exactly, it sounded like.

C

There were a number of details that were needed to know what you're approving, um but but nick. I would.

B

Say the details of primarily how to finish the corners and the edges of the siding on the kitchen.

B

Edition and also on the screen, that's where the trouble lies right, they're, construction, details.

C

Right, there's that yeah there's the signs there's the retaining. So we have no approval for signs.

B

Well, you're going to have an approval for a sign because that's guaranteed if they come back going.

C

To need a variance, so you will be approving that yeah, but you know it's again: it's the whole tree.

C

Saving it, I just I, wouldn't be comfortable issuing a building. Permit I'll tell you that, with these.

C

Things not being clear so that doesn't get them anywhere if they can't get a building permit. They.

C

Can't go into a closing they're not done with tac. They could be here on december, 2nd, which.

C

Is literally four weeks from now with all your details, knowing what you're doing with the tree.

C

You'll be out attack, hopefully- and you know just coming back and going through 18. this.

B

Is our planning guru right here, so I'm looking for a motion to continue well well, I just I was.

Q

Going to point out that there are details, at least for the offense and a basic detail on the screen.

Q

You save the tree and move the fence and move the wall in order to save the tree and change.

C

The driveway change the parking and the whole site starts to shift it. It can have an impact.

C

On some of the structural elements like the wall and the fence, and where they're situated and you'd.

C

Have to come back here, the retaining walls getting shorter, the building's not changing.

Q

At all, there's no way that tree is being saved without the wall and the fence being relocated.

C

The retaining wall is getting shorter. It's there's less. Someone make a motion. The motion to continue.

A

This until december, okay, second, I'm exciting here making a motion to continue this until december.

K

I think the canopy details too, it's still chemistry too I'd like to see more of that.

E

Is that going to be okay, I mean, I think, importantly, you're hearing their support here.

C

Can I get clarification on? What do you mean by the canopy detail? I mean it, it is kind of canopy.

K

Well, what's what's it going to look like when you're under the part that you haven't taken.

K

Haven't opened completely, is it going to be old aluminum if you know wires lights? What, if you look.

R

At one of the pictures from above you can you can see the structure of the of the canopy, the white.

R

Panels that you see on the bottom literally they're, simply like sheet metal that pull out.

R

When you pull those down you're going to have left the detailing of the girders going from.

R

The building to the street okay: that's going to be the structure that and that you're not.

R

Affecting the structure in any way by removing those yeah, what we may have to do is on the.

R

Cabot side of the building of the structure of the awning you.

R

May have a little bit of bracing you need to put in in between that beyond.

R

That it's going to be one second very minimal. The idea is to we have no hurry.

K

I feel like a view, looking up, I'm not going to be seeing it from the area of my perspective.

K

Yeah yeah I mean you could have material in between the beams, the steel beams or you could.

B

Be looking at the underneath of the roof, I mean I I understand you guys want to be able to see.

Q

These things you have to understand on our point that essentially you're asking for construction.

Q

Documents for the entire thing, which is what you do for a building permit. Thank you very.

B

Much yeah okay, you're asking a client to pay for construction documents before they even know. If.

Q

They're allowed to do this at least that's the way I see it. That's all I'm saying I would say.

B

That every permit for a major structure that we give out. We have these documents. We have documents.

B

With the windows, with the doors, you know with um any details that are how panels are put together.

B

And all that stuff? Okay, it's all there all right, okay! Well, I would just say I think you're really.

C

Close yeah, I think the the details are just when you say well, we haven't decided this material or.

C

This material, this finish or that finish, yeah that's uncertainty as to what it is you're.

C

Actually getting approved, so I think, looking at your submission, you're really close and I think.

C

Number two you've got strong support up here for this project, so unless you're closing is tomorrow,.

C

uh You're likely going to get an approval on the second of december it'll be nice and clean.

C

Right well, this is more for my education, you know, because, ideally, this will be the last time I'm in.

E

Front of you guys. Nick I'd also like to point out that we've given approvals for a lot of conceptual.

E

Stuff, too, as well with the understanding that they're going to come back with details. So.

I

I will be, I will be voting no on the continuance so that I can vote yes on a an approval or.

I

Disapproval with stipulation okay, can I speak yes, please. Thank you. Chair um is the city council of.

N

Representative on this commission, I think it's important that we work with the applicant and.

N

Don't be the end of the ones that are going to hold him up or hold this purchase of sale.

N

um We have had some conceptual improvements in the past and I trust that these are small.

N

Details that they we can stipulate, they come back before us, so I'll be doing the same commissioners.

B

You know that's what I was thinking as far as an administrative approval or something.

B

So all I'm saying is that's absolutely true, except they will not be getting a building.

C

Permit until they're resolving these issues, it's just the way it works and nobody goes to.

C

A closing without knowing they've got a project, so you've got a building. Permit. You know project.

C

So isn't that our call, though yeah but that's all yeah okay? So we have a motion on the floor.

B

I'm going to call for a vote motion for continuance right right. We have a second.

B

I thought we had a second I had made an. I had initially made a motion to improve. Then margo.

E

Made an emotion to continue, so we don't. We have motions up in the air right now. We.

E

Don't have a second well. Yours is a second mark I'll. Second, three, four reasons: motion.

E

I want clarification from the applicants.

E

If well, it continues to december hold up. Do you need to have a building permit for your closing no.

E

Then I don't understand, then I would like to go ahead with the approval for this design with stipulations that they come back for.

E

um With details on the things that are already listed but and I'd like to second that.

B

Okay, well so margo's motion hasn't been seconded, and so um the motion on the floor is for approval.

B

With um the applicant coming back with the details that we discussed yes and I will okay safer.

E

E

This has, um should we just clarify the stipulation sure, yeah I'd like to know.

E

What the details are the details are the um composite paneling details and how they will be.

E

um They're finished and how they will be um attached, uh the roofing details for the flat roof.

E

um Maybe a reflected ceiling plan for the canopy just so that we have an understanding of what.

E

Exactly is it it's going to look like? um Were there any other corrugated, we need more details on.

K

The corrugated screen- I there's a picture of it in the back but sure more details on the corrugated.

E

Screening and I guess the any any changes that result from the attack right, that the tree.

E

Wall issue there's also the possibility that they might want to put lights on, underneath that.

E

Right and the sign that yeah you'll come back to us with whatever sign issues you want to do.

E

um Right well, like whatever they do from lighting they'll, have to come back to us anyway.

E

um This has uh conservation and enhancement of property values, because this is a.

E

Property that is, has been in serious need for of love for a very long.

E

Time and I think that this is a really great transformation for this property.

E

Looking at what it is embracing that it's a gas station but bringing it back to life and.

E

So therefore, it has relation to historic and architectural value of the existing structure.

B

All those in favor say aye, aye, aye chair, says I against against opposed all right.

B

So you have your partial approval. Thank you. We'll see you again soon.

E

Good night.

J

She gets to go home.

B

All right, so we have a petition of robin and cyrus noble owners for property located at.

B

115 mount vernon street wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to.

B

An existing structure extend the roof line of the existing house over the attached garage as.

B

Per plans on filing the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 111.

B

As lot 33 and lies within general residence b and historic district, and who is here to present this.

C

Doesn't look like anybody um I'll just say that this is the same application that was.

C

Submitted in 2019 from carla good night at cj, architects, which is similar to the.

C

Application submitted in 2018, I think, from jennifer ramsey, so this was approved in 2019.

C

It got a one-year extension in 2020 and got a second one year, extension in 2021. It's it.

C

Expires in november of this month, they're not eligible because we don't have a third extension.

C

So this was reposted with the exact same uh plans that were approved and extended twice.

C

So maybe the applicant thought they didn't need to be here because when they originally filed.

C

They thought it was an extension request and we discovered it had to be reposted. Is it right that.

E

There are there's new owners anyway too, with this. Yes, there's new owners, I think, but the.

C

New owner did the second extension request: okay, yeah okay, so we need a motion to continue this.

B

uh Or I guess there's probably members. Does anybody not remember this? This was last year.

C

Okay, you weren't here last year, no for the for the initial design, and I don't know, oh because.

C

The extension would have been yeah. Well, you, okay, do whatever you want to do. um Nothing's changed.

B

um Do we have some opinions? What we should do here.

A

There's nobody from the neighborhood there's nobody going to make a presentation. Well, we.

F

Had well, we had two people stop in yeah and I communicated with them and told them before the.

C

Meeting their confusion was whether this was an extension request or a new public hearing.

B

They didn't specifically say they were against this project. No, no seemed like a procedural, some.

C

Procedural confusion on their part, so you're saying we can't give another extension. No, you.

C

Can't so what are our options? Either? We approve public hearing just reapprove the project it'll.

C

Be good for one year and they're not proposing any design changes, so you could look at this.

C

As a third extension with a public hearing- and could we just continue it to next week and we.

C

Hope that somebody will come and present it. Okay, okay, we've got a light agenda next week. All right.

C

Okay, great, I I propose that we continue this to next week. Second, all right, all those in favor aye.

B

Aye against very good, go I'll, close this public hearing and then look for an adjournment. Second.

N