City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Planning Board, 19 Jan 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 1.19.2023 Planning Board

Description

1.19.2023 Planning Board

A

No matter how, good evening, everyone welcome to the january 19, 2023 planning, board, meeting city.

B

Of portsmouth first meeting of the year, probably meeting to order and our first item of business.

B

Is election of officers? Mr chair, I make a motion to nominate.

C

Rick tillman is the chairman of our planning board for 2023., the second, the emotion any discussion.

D

You've done a great job for this past year.

D

Let's keep it going yeah all those in favor, hi hi opposed. I need a motion for vice chair.

E

Mr chair I'll, let uh corey clark for vice chair I'll second, that thank you. Any discussion.

B

All those in favor aye aye opposed none everybody. We have uh minutes from december 15th.

B

I know jim has some notes on this that he would like to discuss. I saw.

B

That the minutes are actually a little bit different style than they've been in the past. We've got a new person taking or keeping our minutes. So any comments.

E

Which are all move that the minutes for the december 15th meeting be approved with, as.

E

Amended with my edits, your edits aren't a part of the board discussion yet so.

B

To hewitt submitted a page and a half or so of notes that he took from the meeting tape.

B

I believe correct and I don't think anybody's seen it, except for peter myself and of course, mr hewitt.

E

Actually, my email to yourself and city staff blind copied all members, so is everybody seen it done.

F

I have not I'm sorry, so I would have to abstain. I haven't seen it so I would have to stand as well. I.

G

Have not had time to read it, I saw it. I haven't had time to read it. The only thing I'll say I.

B

Did read it and it did seem to track very well. I'm slightly concerned that we'd not get into a.

B

Transcript of our meetings, that's a it's sort of a slippery slope where, in my experience, both with.

B

Planning boards and in appeals from planning boards- that's not a place. You want to be all.

B

The time anytime, actually um that said he did. Mr hewitt did capture some conversation that he and.

B

I had with the applicant on the two russell street project that weren't in the minutes, as submitted.

B

He's made a motion to have it the way he submitted it. Do we get a second on that.

B

To discuss it second: okay, discussion: I I it was completely accurate. I agree, but the difference.

C

Between transcript in a minute is distinct, um not sure, quite how to handle it. If there was a simple.

C

Way to condense that, to a paragraph versus a page, I'd be fully in favor of amending it.

D

I agree maybe capture the essence of in summer. In summary, that might be a better should we try.

B

To do that and postpone adopting the minutes just now postpone until next month, yeah I'm.

E

Okay with that, could I just ask how how did we get it directly from you, or did it come.

F

Okay, I don't and when was it let's emailed those out last night, a few days ago, okay,.

B

Why not if, if maybe peter, if you and I and mr hewitt, can kind of work on.

B

Condensing that, possibly maybe we can come up with a way sure bring it back.

B

Next month, so we're not tied up agreed makes sense.

B

Tonight we have uh moving on public hearings.

B

We've got a request to postpone delivery, mutual for property, 225 borswick avenue.

B

They were going to be requesting a conditional wetlands conditional use permit under 10 10 17.

B

um I need a motion to postpone a second all, those in favor.

B

Aye sorry jane well, I just had a question about that. I don't know when do I get to say that.

C

After this discussion, yeah yeah it just moved too fast. That's okay! Go ahead! You can um well.

A

The the reasons that were stated weren't actual full sentences. They were permitting processed.

A

By the state- and I wanted to know what about the permitting process by the state, you know results.

A

In the postponement- and the other part were design plans by engineer, so I I just wanted more detail.

A

About what's actually causing the postponement, I didn't feel that that was very descriptive.

H

um So the conservation commission, their letter decision, said that they need to figure out if.

H

They needed a state permit which they've um they do, and so they were in the process of filing.

H

That and then they also need to have a planting plan which they haven't completed yet so those.

H

Two things they want to have done before they come to the planning course. So, basically, their.

C

Application is incomplete, right, okay, okay, thank you, okay, or is that move too fast? That's okay!.

B

That's all on that, I believe um we have requested via our family. Trust is owner.

B

And edwin kathleen vr applicants for property, 12, regina road requesting additional use permits.

B

Under 10 10 17, this project proposes a disturbance of 144 square feet within the.

B

100 foot wetland buffer zone application proposes constructing a 10 by 10 shed on top of a crushed.

B

Stone area of a 12 by 12 feet within the wetland buffer properties on assessor's.

B

Map 225 lot 29, it's in the single residence, a district who's here to speak. This application.

B

Please step up the podium and give your name and address.

I

I am kathleen vieira from 12 virginia road. This is edward viera, 12, regina road.

I

And we're just asking we didn't know when we came here. We just moved to fort smith in april.

I

We didn't know that we needed to go through this whole process, so we're just trying to put a shout.

I

Out in the yard, as we moved into the house, we realize we have more gadgets than than we have.

I

Space, it will be on crushed stone. We are going to plant. Do some plantings to offset any impact that.

I

We might have the area that we're putting it in is right. Next to the driveway and honestly that area.

I

Was just badly grass and weeds, it wasn't really providing much support for the wetlands, so we will.

I

Improve that I think in the long run any questions we're happy to answer them any questions. Yesterday.

C

um Looking at your drawing, thank you for what you did and in your.

C

Herbage basically says your whole house is in the wetlands anyhow, and this isn't really mark.

C

But I'm assuming that the green, weird shape that has 80 of your house in it is the wetlands or is.

C

That the setup- that's where we're not that's, whether it's not buffer the wetlands, are more.

I

Towards the back of the property, that triangle is: where we're that's that's the way I read the map.

I

I, oh okay, so the so the cross hatch is the is the wetlands. Yes, it's just not labeled and it.

C

Was kind of weird but okay, I got you so that's the only safe place. Your house is already there.

C

Got it oh, we could put it right in the middle of the front yard, um and did you know that after us.

C

Only guys, because I have the experience putting a shed in they're gonna, ask you for like a plot.

C

Plan so that the shed's not in setbacks and and they they ask you for elevations on a.

C

Plot plant to put a shed believe it or not: okay, wait for that next step; yeah! That's the building.

C

Department we've been learning as we go along, that'll, be the building folks. After us, okay, okay,.

B

Any other questions the applicant.

B

Thank you very much. Thank you.

B

Is there any I'll open the public hearing.

B

um Is anybody here to speak too far against this application? Anybody on zoom.

B

I'm gonna close the public hearing. We have uh findings of fact.

J

Chairman I'll make a motion that we vote to find that the conditional use permit application meets the criteria set forth in section 10.1017.50 and to adopt the findings of fact. As presented.

J

Second, any discussion, it's very straightforward and they don't have anywhere else to put it.

J

And that's the best place right next to the driveway, all those in favor aye, aye opposed.

B

Finally, adopted: let's try and I'll make a motion with both the granted wetland.

J

Conditional use permit with the following condition: 2.1 as outlined in the staff memo.

B

Is there a second second new discussion, all those in favor aye aye opposed you are approved. Thank you.

B

I have the request of torrington brown. Llc is in single venture llc, as owners for property at 132.

B

134 middle street, requesting a conditional use permit approval to provide seven parking spaces.

B

Where 17 are required as permitted under 10.111214 of the zoning ordinance, this property is located.

B

On assessors map 127 lot, 12 is a character district 4-l1 c84-l1 in the historic district.

B

Who's here to speak to this application, uh mr chairman, members of the board, john changin, from.

K

Ambit engineering, haley ward uh project. uh Excuse me sorry to interrupt. I have to accuse myself on.

L

This one entirely just didn't, know: okay, thank you all right, they're, representing uh project engineer.

K

uh With me tonight is greg michelaides who's representing the owners who cannot be here tonight.

K

They apologize so in february of uh february 27th to be exact of 2020 an approval approval was.

K

Granted by the planning board for the previous owner, who was going to do a little bit more.

K

Extensive renovations on the property, um there was a commercial unit that was a dentist office that.

K

Had been vacated and they were going to convert that, but they were also going to add some more.

K

uh Space by taking over some of the some of the space in the basement and combining some of the.

K

Upper floor units making the units bigger, so that request was for a condition, use permit to provide.

K

Seven parking spaces where 24 were required. The difference in this application is that we're.

K

Asking for seven spaces we're 17 were required, so it's less of an ask than previously and the.

K

Reason is that this current owner is going to just renovate the units, as is as they become.

K

Available but also convert that office into an additional residential unit, so they're adding.

K

One additional residential unit that adds when you look at the space count, it adds one space purely.

K

Based on that unit, in the on the plan, there was a calculation that shows that actually, if you look.

K

At the parking demand based on the previous commercial use, there is actually a demand.

K

Reduction of one space due to this conversion so that 2020 approval was extended in 2021. It.

K

Then expired in february of 2022. Torrington properties purchased this property in june of.

K

2022- and they were not, they did- they were not made aware at the time of the sale that there was a.

K

Conditional use permit there was a variance that they extended uh and they're in the process of.

K

Making some improvements, as I mentioned as tenants, go out, move out their retrofitting bring things up.

K

And they were made aware, though, that they needed this conditional use permit that's why we're here.

K

Tonight so there's been some questions about the historical use of and current use of, those.

K

Parking spaces uh they were, they were used, um they've been used for a long time. There's a.

K

Driveway on the left side, a driveway on the right side, there's also access off of state street to.

K

Some parking that is in the left side rear those spaces have been used for a significant amount of.

K

Time currently uh in the entire building, there are only four units that have assigned parking spaces.

K

So the new property manager uh assigns parking spaces as requests come in. So there's only four.

K

Out of the 20 units that are requesting parking, the right front, driveway is used a tandem spot.

K

And it's used by one of the renters bob and jan so they park there on that side and.

K

The back entrance has two tenants who parked there and then the front left has one tenant.

K

So there's only four that uh have parking they're going to add some bike racks as a.

K

Part of this application and the property manager has no noted that most tenants.

K

Have bikes and use bikes as transportation, so I think this fits into the urban core.

K

uh You know close to downtown close to amenities, renters small units. They don't have the need to.

K

Have a car the findings of fact as presented are we would concur with that we're going to.

K

Add a bike rack. We feel the location is in close proximity to the urban core and public.

K

Transportation, so we comply with that section of the ordinance. uh We noticed some census data.

K

That also is trending towards a favorable use of apartments without vehicles, and that has to.

K

Do with the rise in people uh working from home, so they don't really need a car to commute every day.

K

And it's interesting in that census data that that rose in the portsmouth census data report.

K

From 5.4 percent to 11.2, so we've seen a doubling in the number of people who are working at home.

K

Which is interesting, we would submit that the existing parking supply is adequate. There's really.

K

Been no complaints that we're aware of uh and no problems with, the parking as it is now, so we.

K

Would not anticipate adding one residential unit would have a big impact. There is a parking space.

K

Now that is in front of the building, and that does not comply with the current ordinance. So that will.

K

Be removed so there is going to be one space less available, but that's required and I don't think.

K

That has an impact on the use or the request. So if there's any questions, I'd be glad to answer them.

K

And we ask that you approve this conditional use. Permit here tonight, questions the african.

B

um Peter first and then beth so thank you, john. That was really helpful to um the residents that.

D

Are requesting spaces? Do they pay extra for those bases? Today, or I don't know the answer to that.

K

Question but they're issued passes so they're tagged and uh people that don't have passes.

K

uh Aren't allowed to park there, so I'm sure there is some sort of uh extra illumination, but I'm not.

K

Sure, privy to the details of that, my curiosity to that is, is that they're not or they are then.

D

Maybe those that if they have a car or pay, don't want to maybe pay and you're using the street.

D

Is there any verification that the other tenants aren't you? They don't have a car.

K

So there are some tenants that use parking on city streets specifically on state street, behind it.

K

That sort of I don't know if I'd call it the lower end. I guess it is the lower end of state.

K

Street, because when you cross over, it's not state anymore, so uh that's sort of just far.

K

Enough outside people park there during the day but at night time there's not enough other.

K

Residential units to not afford extra space, so yes, there are some tenants that park there.

B

uh That's next and then jane uh mr shagnant, as you're coming in from the access easement.

G

Off of state street, it almost looks like in the corner of that lot. There might be room for another parking space. Is that not size wise? When you sort of come.

G

Through that easement and then right in the corner of the property, there's there.

G

Sort of the southwest- I call it- is there room for another space there or no.

K

The problem with that is, you impede the backing up of the spaces that are in front of it.

K

um Yeah it's it's kind of a. I was trying to be creative yeah. I appreciate that and certainly.

K

There's probably been some creative barking there in the past, but but meeting the ordinance. uh No.

G

Okay, thanks jane yeah, I went to the property and I walked around, and so I know that those.

A

Little driveways or alleyways are really narrow, so I even with these seven spaces,.

A

I fail to understand how their usable spaces, particularly the two vehicles, that get locked.

A

In that are you know either there's you have numbers on one of your diagrams and it would be.

A

Vehicle number space number five and six because they can't get around the other parked vehicle.

A

So I was wondering how everybody decides who's going to be the innermost parked vehicle. Those.

A

Those aren't those aren't parking spaces that they can just get out of whenever they want to. At two.

A

O'clock in the morning or yeah so as per the staff recommendation and the proposed conditions of the.

K

Approval the tandem spaces, those are tandem spaces because they don't have uh unfettered.

K

Access those have to be assigned to the same unit and that's what this property manager has done so.

K

For example, the spaces that are north of the building are assigned and used by two people.

K

In the same unit, so it they can coordinate their comings and goings, and so it's actually the nature.

A

Of tandem spaces, so the seven spaces actually are equivalent to five units having parking.

K

um Four four units: okay, yep. um Well, I don't think that that's sufficient for this building and.

A

um Inside your parking demand summary proposed, you say efforts.

A

Will be undertaken to increase the available parking in nearby locations for requesting.

A

Shared uses with a budding business parking, lots or blah blah blah shouldn't that be done before.

A

You know this is completely passed shouldn't. We know, in other words, part of your parking demand.

A

Analysis that I find that's missing is where is the other available parking? Because when I walk up.

A

And down those side streets, it's metered parking, I mean, I don't think people are going to go out and.

A

You know on a regular basis, pay for a whole night of you know, parking or an afternoon of.

A

Parking in an evening they're going to have to really calculate you know every couple of.

A

Hours going out and feeding kneaders somehow so I'd like to know the part about how, for those.

A

People who actually do need additional parking where that available parking is.

K

So I think some of that was discussed by the board in more detail when the ask was for.

K

Seven spaces where 24 were required and some of that discussion uh was centered around the.

K

Fact that there are some uh adjacent business uses that if the need arose.

K

The um renters could make inquiries and possibly lease spaces in those lots when.

K

The businesses are shut down, so there's also other spaces that are not really that far away.

K

As I mentioned state street, it's not all it's not all pay parking on state street, I'm pretty sure.

K

um And I I don't, I don't know if you can park overnight in the masonic lot, but during the.

K

Daytime that's an alternative that they can use to having to pay for parking or being shut out.

K

Of state street because it gets more use in the daytime hope that answers the question.

K

Thank you so we'll have a chance to discuss this later. Mr chairman, okay, thank you greg the bike.

C

Racks, I found them on your drawings. Were those a condition of the previous approval or and are they.

K

um Yes, but not as many so we've added to that count um comment I mean I'm not sure if they.

K

Were I think they were because even in 2020, the ordinance requires one bike: rack for every five.

K

Dwelling units so to comply with the ordinance in 2020. They had to have four bike: racks: okay,.

C

So there's a comment: my experience owning a property, a couple blocks from there. They.

C

People are gravitating scooters more than bikes, and I've had to accommodate those good idea. So.

C

One of those pads that you have two bike racks on yeah would make a great place for three scooters.

C

And that's what I did. I took a planting bed and turned it into scooter parking so.

C

That they don't put the scooters where people are going to hit them, or you know it's just a.

C

Comment, it's worked for me sure and actually, in this particular location, parking spot.

K

I was looking at the northernmost: it's really sweet because there's actually an area here.

K

Yeah that has a roof over it yeah. That's the perfect place to put scooters exactly yeah.

C

Some of my tenants just who work downtown, went and got a scooter and sat back with it so sure.

B

Sure yeah any other questions the applicant. Yes, mr shagnan, uh is it true that 20 of the units are.

E

Occupied now of the 21. I couldn't speak to that I don't think they were fully occupied, I'm not sure.

K

Exactly um 19 arrived right now, thank you greg and I noticed there was a lot of effort put into.

E

Trying to predict how many spaces this project would need- and I think this is a unique case where.

E

We don't have to project, we can actually find out because 19 of the units are occupied, so would it.

E

Be too difficult to tally up how many cars are associated with each one of these apartments.

K

So the answer was supplied by the property manager. There's currently four uh tenants that have.

K

Permits to park, okay and beyond that there may be some people that have cars, but right they're,.

K

Finding their own way right in amongst the various uh opportunities that are provided uh in the city.

E

But it would be, would it be difficult, instead of predicting to find out how many cars are.

E

Associated with this project, by just knocking on doors, asking tenants just are the property.

E

Manager would would he know how many cars um that question was asked of the property team and.

K

That was what came back is that they have uh four unit owners who are assigned parking spaces.

K

And the rest of the unit owners are not demanding parking or asking for parking or.

K

Probably you need parking right but again we're trying to predict how many cars are associated.

E

With this building that are not parking on the site, so we're trying to at least I'm trying to.

E

Understand so we are, we provided a parking demand memo and that predicted the number of.

K

Cars based on the standards that have been developed by the ite- yes, that was very good.

K

That was very well done, and so that's your number, if you're looking for a number well.

K

Okay, but we have a chance to get a real number, not a predicted number. I know it's.

K

Beyond my pay grade, I'll, let greg except we don't have that number tonight- is that fair.

M

So I uh greg mikulitis from august consulting, um I think the confusion is it's an existing.

M

Building it's occupied with 19 people, we're asking for a conversion of one commercial.

M

Unit, that's a dentist office that has turnover all day to one residential, we're not asking for.

M

22 units for approval they're there there's 21 units that are there, so I think that's the.

M

Confusion that building's there it's 19 people occupied we're not asking for permission to.

M

Park the whole place we're asking to convert one unit, one commercial unit to residential.

M

It can stay at dentist office forever, a few people say no or it can convert to a residential unit.

M

That that's it, that's all we're asked. That's the ask today the ask isn't to approve a whole 22-unit.

M

Apartment complex, so I just want to clear up that confusion. We're asking for one unit.

D

Clear, there's no confusion. Aren't we asking for a conditional use permit for parking.

A

Associated with that building, if you, if you deny it that has to stay at dentist office or.

M

Ss state commercial space- it was that's that that's it we're not asking for anything else.

M

It's it's a it's a fully occupied building. The only reason why the other, it's the only reason.

M

Why it's not 20 people in there right now is they were painting and converting that or upgrading it.

M

And the billing department said you don't have your conditional use permit expired, that's the.

M

Only reason why there's not 20 people in there so um that that's it I'm trying to simplify for you.

M

Folks, we're not asking for approval for a 22 unit apartment building, we're asking for one conversion.

B

But isn't the request for a conditional use permit related to the conversion of that one.

B

Unit plus haven't the units gotten smaller they're, going to stay the same. It's the.

M

I wasn't here, I wasn't part, I wasn't part of the other approval yeah, so the previous request, which.

K

Was approved, the prior owner was going to take over more space in the basement and convert it.

K

To residential use and make the upper units bigger and that's why the previous grant by the planning.

K

Board was for uh seven spaces where 24 were required and now we're asking for seven spaces.

K

Where 17 are required, so that is to answer the question about smaller. The units actually aren't.

K

Getting smaller, it's just that the expansion in the units has not occurred. They're not.

B

Expanding correct, okay, but the conditional use permit that was approved before it was never.

D

Taken up it's so it's essentially it's going through a whole new approval process. Yeah they.

K

Didn't they didn't expand the building yeah, the the prior owner? uh So it says it's too expensive.

K

During covid you know didn't: do it just sold the building so at this point in time, it's as if it.

D

Was never approved, it's coming back for approval. Yes, thank you, yep, and if you look at the charts.

K

Too, it's an addition of uh two bedrooms. The one unit is a two-bedroom unit, that's being.

K

Added so there's two additional bedrooms. I I one thing I struggle with is: is you've got 21 units.

D

At least 21 people and a third of the amount of spaces embarking.

D

E

Mr chair, yes yeah, I don't maybe I'm not explaining myself and I don't mean to be an irritant or.

E

Try to make you.

E

Explain things that joy re-explained? I understand that today you do not have the information, I'm.

E

Asking for I understand, but could that information be obtained in the future if we make a condition.

E

That we find out how many cars with the existing tenants are associated with the project.

K

And the answer then defines something or not: you just want to know the information correct.

E

And I'd rather have a real number than a predicted number. I mean that's yeah and we.

E

Have a unique opportunity: you have some pretty good opportunities to gather data like that.

K

In real time, from other approvals that you've granted well again, it's we have. We have people.

E

Living here some people have cars. Some people, don't would it be difficult to get that number.

K

um The it would not be difficult for the property manager to ask the tenants. Do you.

K

Have a car how many and provide that information to you, it would not be. I don't think the question.

B

The question: that's a question, comes to my mind, is: what do we do with a number.

B

That's what I was saying: what does the number mean to you? It's data that could be collected.

K

uh You know there's a point of information point of information now: data yep, I'm an engineer too.

B

I like data, but um I think it's very important data since we I understand we will be revising our.

E

Parking ranks and to have actual data, we have the west end yards parking demand study and we could.

E

Have this one in their kind of different parts of town, so I think it'd be very valuable to us.

K

You also had the you will be getting the portion of housing authority data.

K

Right, yes, for the better, yes greg. I followed a lot of questioning and I think it just needs.

C

To be clarified that that's not going to be condition of this approval, it's simply going.

C

To be data, that's provided for us when we go to work on other land use regulations. If you know.

C

We're not going to make it a conditioned approval. We just would like to see the data is that right.

E

Well, if it's not a condition, we're not sure if we'll ever get it. So, if you make it a.

E

Condition we know we're going to get it well, it doesn't condition it okay. I think the question.

B

It the the project could be approved with the understanding that would be provided as data.

C

Thank you, that's what I meant right as opposed to withholding the approval until that data arrives.

B

Which, I don't think would be fair. No, I don't either any any other questions of the applicant.

B

Thank you, I I'll open the public hearing. I think it's going to be pretty short.

B

Anybody here speak 2-4 against this application. Anybody on zoom, I'm gonna close the public hearing.

B

That to me, the fact that there aren't any about us here complaining is valid.

B

Report discussion.

B

Yeah, um I I still want to return to that sentence about just parking demand in general and because.

A

It's an additive effect, so the fact that our own city ordinance suggests that 17 spaces are.

A

Required for this building and we have seven, which is servicing four out of 21 units one-seventh of.

A

The units um it troubles me I mean when mr gagnon says that well we're going to go, you know they.

A

Could use the masonic parking lot? I think that's exactly what the public housing authority, which.

A

Has now had a variance for fewer parking spots is thinking, I think, we're getting into a situation.

A

Where it's not clear to me whether or not they're going to be like parking spot wars, because we're.

A

Giving a lot of variances to buildings with, and I don't see clearly stated where the alternatives.

A

Are for them to park all night long, um given the other properties that we have in town with more.

A

And more density units, so I'm not in favor of this parking conditional use permit the way it stands.

A

And I'm sorry, I'm misspoke. We need a motion on the findings of fact in a second and then a discussion.

B

The discussion, the discussion is good. We just it's just a technicality. Okay, just need emotion. This.

J

Channel I'll make a motion we vote to find that the conditional use permit application meets the.

J

Criteria set forth in section 10.112.14 and adopt those findings of fact as presented. Second now we.

B

Can have some more discussion, I'm sorry that I didn't do that before. Well. Further to my point,.

A

For people to walk down to the founder corey did you have? Did you want to explain your motion? Oh.

J

All the others go first and then we can circle back.

J

I don't want to, you know, interrupt jane's, okay, that's a motion. I thought.

A

Sorry, I don't mean to be out of line either corey, but that's fine go um not at all. It's.

A

Just that I've heard well, you know people can get parking arrangements at the foundry garage which.

A

Is at least four or five blocks away from this property, but I don't think we can just continually.

A

Make assumptions that everybody's going to have sufficient parking? And I don't know that people.

A

Want to walk five blocks to par five blocks back. You know, there's a problem of groceries. There's.

A

A problem of the logistics of life, so I don't think that really having four units serviced by.

A

Seven parking spaces, given the need for 17 parking spaces according to our own ordinance, is warranted.

B

We're talking about finding the fact here greg should I follow along with that. I think it's.

C

Important to realize that there's some confusion, it's an existing condition and you can't we're.

C

Not changing the existing condition and, in fact, he's asking for less than the previously existing.

C

Condition so if we were in the 17, spaces applies to new construction, not existing condition and.

C

So if the owner wanted to buy a building that has zero parking existing, he can buy a building that.

C

Has zero parking existing and whatever parking regs apply, don't apply because the next exists.

C

Existing condition I would follow with the request for the data is very important because everybody.

C

Here you know beth everybody. We want to change the the that we want to move parking out of the.

C

Zoning and we want to work on the parking regs and until we do that, we're stuck with existing wrecks.

C

That's all I got okay, we have a motion in a second on the findings of that corey. Did you.

B

Want to jump in now yeah. I would uh just reiterate what mr mahana just stated: that.

J

We have a current situation that appears to work, um we're not hearing anything from a butters or.

J

Anybody else um stating anything negative about the current situation, and so you know.

J

I don't even think we have to really look at what was previously um approved, even though.

J

That was for more density. I think uh I think, just looking at the current situation, it works.

J

And so um I do think, like others have said getting, the data would be very beneficial.

J

So that we can, you know, throw throw that into the the pot that we'll be looking at. As far as.

J

As far as um when we go to look at um how to maybe manipulate some of these parking.

J

Regulations throughout town, but I think this current situation it most certainly works.

B

Any other discussion on the findings effect.

B

All those in favor- I I suppose I can post eight to one. Mr chairman I'll, make a motion. We vote to.

J

Find that the number of off-street parking spaces provided will be adequate and appropriate for the.

J

Proposed use of the property and to grant the conditional use permit, as presented with the.

J

Following condition: 2.1 per the requirements of the zoning ordinance, the six proposed tandem.

J

Spaces shall be assigned to the same dwelling units and shall not be used to provide guest.

J

Parking- and I will add to that, 2.2 owners shall submit data on current tenant car usage and.

J

Also collect data on where those cars are currently being parked.

B

Is there a second a second second discussion? I I hope that gets uh other board members.

J

um Concerns with that, because I do think it's a great idea, so I think the vice chairs comment that.

F

The situation has proven to work as it exists. It speaks for itself, it's just true and believe me. We.

F

Would hear from this neighborhood if it wasn't working in any way and, like you said chairman.

F

um We are not hearing any opposition to this very tight area in a very historic building.

F

They do not have an option of removing any part of this building to create.

F

More parking that would definitely not be allowed. I think it's a reasonable request.

E

Yes, yeah corey. Can I just slightly modify your motion as far as the description of data.

E

I think it would be helpful to have area of the unit number of bedrooms number of.

E

Occupants and number of cars, and personally, if you'd like to know where they're parked.

E

That's great, that's not important to me, but I'd like to see those four descriptors.

B

You're thinking regulations.

J

Yeah, I'm not making that change and adding adding ideas.

B

Move second into second, I seconded the data I think already exists, but to have.

F

It packaged you know a lot of the information, that's provided it's so if there's no sure.

B

The only thing I'll add picks up on something. You said at the prior meeting joe that front.

B

Space you have to get rid of. That would be a great loading spot. I don't know if.

B

That's a possibility, but it's not a part of the application, so future future thought perhaps.

J

You know, I think, that's where they have a lot of trash receptacles there for.

J

Coming and going of trash and recycling and everything I have seen cars parked there.

B

um Okay, any other discussion.

B

All those in favor, I'm sorry, could we have. uh The motion read back. Please.

J

I'll see what I can it says written here up through 2.1. If you just want to read 2.2.

J

So I'll try to capture 2.2 um owner shall submit data on occupancy unit size.

J

Tenant car usage and where the cars are currently being parked is that capture did I get the other.

J

Two things you wanted in there uh with number of rockets, bedrooms and numbers.

E

Area of apartment number of occupants number of bedrooms.

E

And number of cars- you may have got it better than me. So owner shall submit data.

H

Including area of the unit number bedrooms number of occupants and the number of cars.

H

For the current usage and also include where those cars are parked, there's tenants have cars.

D

Flag it as a for information for information about our parking ordinance.

D

Revision work, informational purposes. Only yeah is everybody clear. Yes, all those in favor uh opposed.

B

Unanimous, uh I'm I'm really I'm sorry, but I'm not clear about why we're voting on it.

A

Again because I think my vote is to be may from the first time we voted on it finding the fact.

B

First and then back to this issue, okay! Well, nay, I vote no, eight eight to one. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Our next meeting is on the 30th and we're going to be having a workshop and a public hearing on the.

B

Accessory dwelling unit issue, um I know we're getting a presentation from staff, perhaps a.

B

Consultant I haven't heard for sure about that. That's correct and there's a pretty con pretty.

B

Extensive package that we've all been given links to, if everybody could read that before.

B

That night, that would be very, very helpful. It's what the land use committee has been working on.

B

For the past year, or so, if you want to add anything or you just want to, if anyone needs.

G

A copy of what was brought down from the city council- I do have a pdf of just that document. Just.

G

Email me- and I can get it to you- are we supposed to get that from staff because I didn't receive it.

H

um Not yet okay, some stuff coming out next week, it will be coming out. I'm sorry, I thought you.

H

Said we received it, the 80 amendments are online um I'll, send those out online link.

M

Out tomorrow, please and then next week, we'll have the um there's another memo.

H

Coming and then the draft presentation or staff and the consultant yep got it.

B

So we should be good to go that night. Yesterday, uh yeah, I just I depending on how long it is I was.

A

Wondering if it's something that maybe we could like upload and look at our own ipads at you know.

A

So that we can market edit it for ourselves, so we don't have to like print it out or whatever.

A

Nothing, that's lengthy. I mean the amendments are 10 pages. Maybe okay! Well, whatever it is. Could you.

A

Send it as one packet so that I know what it is, I'm supposed to be reviewing so that it's.

A

Just clear simple and it's and I can download it on our city ipad, yes, that'd, be great! Thank you.

D

Clear on that one, yes peter, I just want to make notice reference, I'm not going.

D

To be able to make that meeting, some plans changed.

B

I'm going to loop together um the rest of the agenda. I sent out a note of work topics.

G

See the vote okay and make a motion with vegetables public hearing for january 30th, 2023.

B

Talking somebody, I second it: okay, all those in favor.

B

uh This work topic thing before everybody gets completely freaked out. I do try to pay attention.

B

When people say we ought to do this, we got to do that. We ought to do this, and so I've been making.

B

A list, and not every not only the people here, say things to me. I get emails and other people say you.

B

Ought to think about this, and you ought to do that, and so this is the this is my list and it's a lot.

B

um I want to hear from the board if you folks want to dive into all of this. Some of this maybe.

B

There's some other things you have in mind if we are to do this, it's work we'll probably have to.

B

Have workshop meetings every month to do this sort of thing, I'm not afraid of that, but I'm a little.

B

Bit nuts about this stuff, so please share your thoughts. Let me know yes greg. I I think in my case.

C

I'm more interested in participating in planning board changes than being planning board approvals.

C

So yes, I'm in favor of working on these things and that would include workshop meetings. Yes,.

E

There would be two.

B

This is jane, you know, julie. um I may have missed something from not being in the discussions in.

A

December but um I was hoping that our january special session actually would be our first.

A

Chance to start to sit down and plan out and timeline out the master plan. I have.

A

Said for approximately a year that I think it's a priority and I I still think it's.

A

A priority I think we should start in extra sessions as soon as that is possible. Foreign.

B

Yeah, I'm really excited about a lot of these topics. I don't think it's a secret, but I also.

N

Think that uh certain members of the planning board may take different interests or different.

N

uh Excitement about each topic, so I don't know if we want to chunk it out as best as possible, while.

N

Steve still keeping a quorum to talk about them. Maybe there are people that would be willing and.

N

Interested to spearhead some of these and take on certain parts of it so that it's broken down.

N

And we have a good basis of understanding across the board, rather than just you know, putting all.

N

That on you, and certainly breaking it out as much as possible. Okay, thank you. Anybody else.

B

Use it a consensus that folks who want want to dive in, and we figure out at the first workshop.

B

If we do need to chunk it out or if we you know, set some priorities, the the master plan budget is.

B

In the capital improvements plan, if it passes and gets through all the steps that it needs.

B

To get through that money would be available in july, which is the start of the 24th fiscal year.

B

um So there's reading to be done, I know jane, has read the entire master.

B

Plan recently, she's- probably the only one here that has done that.

B

But we all should do that. Yeah excuse me and these other topics, um the rules, board rules and.

B

Procedures, I thought I'd have those in a situation where I could just pass them out tonight. I didn't.

B

I at one point a month ago, we thought there'd be three meetings this month, because we thought that.

B

Tonight would be a very heavy agenda and then we'd have a workshop about these topics and a.

B

Workshop about the adus I talked with staff, we decided three meetings was just going to.

B

Be too much so we split it to two meetings, and this is where we are so we won't have a workshop.

B

On these topics, but if folks are willing and I'm getting the sense that people are willing.

B

Okay, because I I can call the workshop meeting and you're supposed to come, if I call it so.

F

Just a clarification you had mentioned that.

F

um The items on here some of these items that made it to this list are simply people saying.

F

You should you should look at this right. Yes, so so we need to at some point decide if they're.

B

Oh yeah now this is this is an inclusive list, so the board may decide. We don't want to talk.

B

About this right- or you know we'll talk about this next year or you know, okay, anything like.

B

That all right prioritize them in some way exactly yeah and staff's, going to be.

B

Closely involved in this, too, and so uh I talked with peter bricks and peter earlier today, and.

B

And further conversations with them, we may find that they feel like this. One topic is just.

B

Needs more research or it needs something, and we really need to get more data before.

B

The board can get its arms around it. We'll bring that back to the board to know about, but I wanted.

B

I don't want to scare people, but I want you to be aware: there's quite a bit to a.

B

Number of things we can look at and some things I think we should look at parking which came up.

B

A couple of times it comes up every meeting uh point of clarification. I've said it before ite.

B

Guidelines that the ite parking generation data is a referenced document. It's not a standard.

B

John actually said standard, I chose not to correct him. It's it's data, which is what we.

B

Asked for that applicant to give us is more data, and data from the city of portsmouth is better.

B

Than any other data, so that's really good stuff to have, and thank you for asking for that. Jim.

B

um We can talk about technical things like that as we get into them, but.

B

All right I'll plan on scheduling, because we have to look at the availability of this room.

B

It could be the so we we have we'll have we have this room reserved for our second.

H

Meeting meeting date, that's always a placeholder. So if we only have you know.

H

The main main stuff on the first meeting, we could always have that second meeting for just.

H

Have a work session, so we could definitely keep that um and then look at other dates as we need.

B

Them is that the fourth thursday or yeah right two years later, fourth thursday yeah the overflow date.

E

Chair showman, um I'm looking at these four major well actually, there's six, but.

E

As far as the workload I I look at master plan as being the biggest. I look at plenty.

E

More rules and procedures to being the easiest and zoning and site plan in between maybe so.

E

Have you given thought about moving forward or is that something you're going to wait for us.

E

All to talk about, I mean what do you I mean at this point. What do you think's a priority.

B

I see the rules being knocked out in february in one meeting. I don't see that as anything.

E

The playing board rules, the rules yeah. I agree a little hanging fruit, first yeah and.

B

um The master plan we do want to talk about now that I know the board is interested. I can.

B

Be a little bit more specific about some of the things that I touched on with this list.

B

There's there's additional data, that's being gathered about parking, for example, there is a study that won't be done until later.

B

This year, probably in the fall that, as we know, dpw is working on it and.

B

um That the council is going to look at that and some other data for a lot more global parking.

B

About parking pricing and parking regulations and neighborhoods and all sorts of things, so that's.

B

Related, certainly to what we have on our zoning, whether it's in zoning or in site plan- and I I.

B

Think it should be insight plan if we do pull parking into site plan, we'll need to preserve.

B

Some parking or have a conversation about parking for one and two family dwellings.

B

Because those aren't subject to site plan. So if we have a project that proposes 10.

B

Houses and you want to have a parking requirement for that sort of project.

B

That would have to be in subdivision and or zoning, so we can talk about that.

B

Not going to make the record in the shortest meeting, that's for.

B

Sure nope I've already, I still hold the record anything. I'm not gonna break it.

B

Anything else before the the storm hits us this evening.

F

I'd like to make a motion to a turn you don't have to. I can just okay, I'm gonna call the meeting. Second, we're done. Thank you.