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A
C
Let's
call
the
regular
meetings
of
the
planning
commission
study
session
for
august
3rd
2022
to
order
adam.
Would
you
call
role
please.
D
B
D
Commissioner
davis
here,
commissioner
mccacken
contacted
me
earlier.
He
will
not
be
present
for
the
study
session
or
the
regular
meeting
commissioner
prescott
here
and
vice
chair
mccann
here
and
chair
crandall.
Here.
C
The
item
today
is
legal
best
practices
and
adam.
Would
you
introduce
the
representative
for
best
best
career.
D
Yes,
we
are
joined
today
by
hung
down
wind
of
best
best
and
krieger,
and
she
is
filling
in
for
her
assistant
city
attorney,
mal
richardson.
Tonight.
C
D
We're
going
to
put
up
a
powerpoint
and
cade.
If
you
would,
let
us
know,
you'll,
be
controlling
the
slides,
correct.
E
Good
point
sure,
all
right
good
afternoon,
everybody
thank
you
for
the
introduction.
Again,
my
name
is
hung
down
to
win,
I'm
a
partner
with
the
law
firm
of
best
best
new
krieger,
which
serves
as
the
city
attorney
for
san
clemente.
Next
slide,
please.
E
I
am
happy
to
be
presenting
to
you
the
planning
commissioner
training.
I'm
aware
that
we
have
a
new
commissioner,
welcome,
commissioner,
so
and
and
for
the
rest,
this
may
be
a
repeat
so
my
apologies,
but
hopefully
it's
helpful
to
everybody
next
slide
please.
E
So
this
is
a
mini
public
ethics
presentation.
The
reason
I
say
that
it's
a
mini
presentation
is
because
every
couple
of
years
the
commissioners
and
other
public
officials
take
a
longer
version
of
this,
which
is
called
ab1234
and
it
covers
two
hours.
This
won't
cover
that,
but
it'll
have
just
kind
of
a
dry
run
of
what
you'll
hear
in
a
longer
presentation.
E
E
Just
a
quick
note
behind
these
laws
are
the
idea
of
transparency
and
that
you
know,
commissioners
and
public
officials
are
operating
transacting
business
on
behalf
of
the
public
and
and
not
for
themselves,
and
so
that's
kind
of
the
broad
policy
behind
these
laws
next
slide,
please
so
the
brown
act
again.
The
policy
is
behind
this.
One
is
open
meetings.
We
want
meetings
and
the
business
to
be
transacted
in
in
public
and
not
behind
closed
doors
where
people
can't
weigh
in
and
we'll
go
through.
E
E
Agendas
are
posted,
72
hours
in
advance
of
a
regular
meeting
and
maybe
even
longer,
I
think,
sometimes
san
clemente
posts
even
longer
than
that
or
24
hours.
In
advance
of
a
special
meeting,
this
body
doesn't
have
closed
sessions,
but
the
council
can
certainly
go
into
closed
session
for
certain
items
as
statutorily
prescribed
real
property
negotiations.
Litigation
matters,
that's
so
that
our
cards
aren't
shown
in
public
and
we're
not
at
a
disadvantage
when
we're
negotiating
those
things,
and
there
are
remedies
and
penalties
that
I'll
get
into
in
a
bit
next
slide,
please.
E
So,
let's
go
very
basic.
What
is
a
meeting
a
meeting
here
is
when
a
quorum
of
this
body.
Here
we
have
seven
folks
right
so,
four
out
of
the
seven
here's
discusses,
deliberates
or
takes
action
on
something
within
the
city's
subject
matter
jurisdiction.
E
So
again,
I
just
want
to
emphasize
that
the
quorum
could
be
hearing
discussing
or
deliberating,
not
necessarily
taking
any
action
on
an
item
but
simply
having
four
commissioners
getting
together
and
discussing
a
matter
of
public
business
could
violate
the
brown
act.
And
what
is
you
know?
An
item
within
the
city
subject
matter
jurisdiction,
certainly,
if
an
item
is
going
to
go
on,
the
agenda
has
been
on
the
agenda,
an
item
on
the
city's
budget.
Those
type
of
things
would
be
in
the
city,
subject,
matter,
jurisdiction
and
again
for
a
meeting
to
properly
occur.
E
It
needs
to
be
noticed.
It
needs
to
be
agendized.
You
know,
I
think,
when
this
all
came
about
when
the
brown
act
was
actually
passed,
it
was
you
know
back
from
deals.
You
know
the
consensus
would
be
made
over
a
lunch
meeting
or
a
dinner
meeting,
there's
case
law
out
there
that
you
know
there
were
some
legislative
bodies
that
the
quorum
of
them
would
have
dinner
beforehand
and
then
would
have
all
the
items
be
unanimous
votes
at
the
meeting.
E
So
those
are
the
things
that
we
we
look
out
for
and
we
get
worried
about
next
slide.
Please,
but
there's
also
clearly
not
meetings
that
are
statutorily
listed
in
the
brown
act.
The
league
conference
is
coming
up.
For
example,
I
believe
that
the
league
also
puts
on
a
commissioner
training
so
to
the
extent
that
you
know
a
quorum
of
this
body
went
to
one
of
those
league
trainings.
That
would
be
perfectly
fine.
E
What
would
not
be
fine,
is
you
know,
having
lunch
afterwards
and
and
talking
about
public
business
community
meetings
not
organized
by
the
local
agency,
a
chamber
of
commerce
meeting,
for
example,
ceremonial
or
social
occasions.
You
know
ribbon
cuttings
and
things
of
that
nature
and
meetings
with
other
legislative
bodies.
Again,
all
these
are
fine,
as
long
as
a
quorum
doesn't
speak
about
public
business
during
or
before
or
after
those
those
gatherings
next
slide.
Please.
E
So
serial
meetings
and
we'll
get
into
that
a
little
bit
more
with
some
with
depictions
of
that
is
use
of
direct
communication,
personal
intermediaries,
technological
devices
again
by
a
quorum
of
the
legislative
body,
to
develop
a
collective
concurrence
it
to
be
taken
on
an
item
is
prohibited,
and
so
next
slide,
please
so
here's
what
we're
worried
about
that
can
quickly
turn
into
brown
act
meetings.
Is
one
commissioner,
either
in
person
or
calls
that,
commissioner,
even
via
email
or
text
message,
says
hey,
you
know?
E
How
are
you
voting
on
this
item
tonight
or
what
do
you
think
about
this
item
and
then
that
next,
commissioner,
you
know
pings
another
commissioner
and
says:
hey
I've
talked
to
this
commissioner.
We
think
that
you
know
we're
gonna
go
this
way
right,
so
that's
that
first
depiction
up
there
a
to
b
to
c.
The
second
depiction
is
kind
of
like
a
a
bike,
a
wheel
and
spoke
type
of
depiction
where
you
have
an
intermediary.
E
You
know
channeling
these
type
of
communications
to
the
various
commissioners.
I
haven't
had
the
situation
you
know,
but
it
specifically,
but,
for
example,
developers
and
applicants
can
be
you
know
out
and
about
in
the
community
and
and
wanting
to
talk
about
their
project,
especially
to
commissioners.
That's
totally
fine
and
meeting
with
developers
or
applicants.
That's
on
a
one-on-one
basis,
that's
fine
as
well
or
learning
more
about
a
project
driving
by
the
location
or
the
site.
E
That's
that's
absolutely
fine
as
well,
but
then
you
know
if
a
developer,
applicant
or
other
interested
party
right
ends
up
talking
to
one
two
three
commissioners
for
commissioners
right
and
says:
hey
all
these
commissioners
are
in
favor
of
the
project.
What
about
you
or
and
starts
becoming
an
intermediary
and
having
those
conversations
and
being
the
kind
of
the
middle
spoke?
That's
kind
of
channeling
all
this
information
that
becomes
a
problem
that
we
do
worry
about.
E
There's
a
carve
out
in
the
brown
act
that
the
kind
of
administrative
person
the
director
that
is
assigned
to
the
commission
or
the
city
manager
when
it
comes
to
the
council,
can
give
information
and
provide.
You
know,
briefings
right
on
various
items.
E
F
One
thing
I
have
been
on
planning
commission
where
they
had
a
closed
session
oh
before,
so
they
can't
have
them.
E
E
I
I
think
that's
a
great
idea
and
yes
to
the
extent
mal
is
very
proactive
and
he
might
do
briefings
one-on-one
on
two.
Two
folks
with
him
is
fine,
as
well
and
and
certainly
in
a
closed
session,
would
be
appropriate.
C
For
a
good
thing,
she
was
talking
about
the
what
can
be
discussed
and
all
be
careful
not
to
ever
say
your
mind
is
made
up
before
the
public
meeting
and
before
the
public
has
the
opportunity
to
present
their
information.
E
G
Now
you
talked
about
developers
like
so
we're
two
commissioners
meet
up
with
the
developer
and
he
wants
to
plead
his
case.
That's
fine
right
even
up
to
three,
but
you
really
want
to
be
careful
there
I
understand
now.
How
do
you
deal
with
that
spoke
say
the
developers,
the
hub?
How
do
any
of
us
I
mean?
E
Well,
I
think
it's
a
very
important
point
to
to
bring
up
and
certainly
there's
nothing
wrong
with
it
right
in
in
in
complicated
projects.
It's
actually
even
very
helpful
to
understand
the
nuances
of
it.
I've
been
on
developer
tours
right
of
the
project
to
just
give
a
visioning
of
what
is
going
to
be
built
here
and
what
the
the
developers
vision
is.
E
So
I
don't
want,
and
certainly
the
commissioners
we
want
the
commissioners
to
continue
to
be
steeped
in
the
community,
to
understand
the
issues
and
and
to
seek
that
information,
but
certainly
not
to
make
up
individual
minds
before
all
the
information
is
presented
in
a
public
setting.
You
know
if,
if
those
meetings
are
had,
you
know
one
way,
we've
done
it
in
the
past.
E
In
some
of
my
client
cities
is
to
have
a
staff
member
there
to
help
guide
that
conversation
to
kind
of
look
out
for
those
type
of
issues,
or
certainly
you
know
at
the
beginning
of
a
conversation.
It
could
just
be
a
friendly
reminder.
Hey,
I
don't
want
to
know
what
other
you
said,
other
commissioners
or
what
they
have
said
to
you.
I'm
mindful
of
the
brown
act,
but
I
I
just
want
to
understand
more
about
this
project.
E
I
just
want
information
and
not
you
know
I
I
you
know
to
hear
what
other
people
have
said.
So
I
think
there's
ways
to
set
that
up
and
and
to
do
that
responsibly.
F
Can
I
add
to
that
please
yeah.
I
would
think
that
you
know
if
somebody's
doing
something
that
you're
unknowing
about
that's
not
on
you,
but
if
you
call
karen
and
say
hey
karen,
I
want
to
vote
this
way
on
this
I'll
call
bart,
and
then
you
call
steve
and
cameron
or
whatever,
and
you
know
then
you're
kind
of
overtly
violating
this.
E
Great
questions
thanks:
okay,
all
right,
let's
go
on
to
the
next
slide,
so
this
is
a
new
law
that
came
out.
It
became
effective
in
2021
ab-992
for
a
long
time.
The
brown
act
didn't
address
social
media
and
those
discussions
on
social
media,
and
so
this
is
kind
of
a
first
of
its
kind.
E
There
were
some
concerns
on
some
public
officials
from
around
the
state
who
said
I
don't
want
to
engage
on
social
media
because
I
don't
want
to
accidentally
engage
in
a
brown
act
violation,
and
so
this
was
to
address
that
so
at
on
one
hand
through
ab992,
there's
explicit
language
that
says
you
know
individual
count,
not
council
members,
public
officials
can
reach
out
to
their
constituents
to
give
information
about
public
business
and
to
solicit
feedback
and
solicit
information,
and-
and
we
are
a-okay
and
blessing
that
so
that
was
very
good.
E
On
the
other
hand,
there
are
some
prohibitions
that
you
should
be
aware
of
and
again
it
provides
that
a
quorum
of
a
legislative
body
can't
discuss
a
matter
of
city
business
on
social
media.
So
again
that
might
look
like
you
know.
One
of
the
commissioners
puts
up
a
post,
or
one
of
the
commissioners
responds
on
one
of
someone
else's
posts
and
then
three
other
chime
in
and
suddenly
you
have.
You
know
four
commissioners
who
are
discussing
a
matter
of
public
business
on
social
media.
E
So
that's
not
too
different
from
you
know
what
I've
been
talking
about
all
along
here.
You
know
four
commissioners
couldn't
get
to
together
for
lunch
or
after
this
meeting
or
before
this
meeting,
to
do
that.
E
So
that's
nothing
really
groundbreaking,
but
just
kind
of
codifying
you
know
here
through
ab-992,
where
ab-992
gets
a
little
bit
different
from
what
we've
seen
in
the
brown
act
is
that
it
also
prohibits
direct
responses
from
one
public
official
to
another
if
they
both
serve
on
the
same
legislative
body,
and
if
the
issue
is
about
city
business,
so
let's
say
there's
a
vote
tonight
on
one
of
the
items.
E
One
of
the
commissioners
is
very
excited
about,
it
says:
hey,
you
know,
this
is
what
we
did
tonight
and
another
commissioner
responds,
and
you
know,
comments
on
that
or
simply
even
thumbs
up
it
and
with
an
emoji
or
whatever
the
emoji
is
that
is
a
prohibition
under
ab992,
so,
instead
of
so
we're
not
just
looking
at
a
quorum
now
we're
looking
at
direct
responses,
which
is
a
little
bit
different
from
what
we've
been
talking
about
so
I'll
just
pause
there
let
that
sink
in,
because
that
is
a
new
law.
A
little.
E
Good
question
ab992
doesn't
distinguish
the
timeline
of
when
you
know
the
matter
was
heard.
It
just
says
simply:
these
are
the
prohibitions
on
discussing
items
of
city
or
city
or
local
agency
business
on
social
media.
It
doesn't
distinguish
so
our
interpretation,
it
is
very
new
and
I'm
not
aware
of
any
case
law
or
any
opinions
that
have
been
enlightening.
Those
those
this
new
law,
but
the
interpretation
at
this
point
would
be
at
any
time.
C
We've
had
projects
come
before
us
at
different
times
that
have
not
become
a
true
application
or
anything.
It's
just
a
cursory
presentation
that
you
know
they're
fishing
a
little
bit
would
that
period
of
time
be
included,
or
only
once
it
becomes
truly
city
business.
E
Commissioners,
that's
a
difficult
question
and
it
simply
talks
about
city
business.
I
would
say
that
if
it's
been
on
an
agenda
or
will
be
on
agenda,
then
that
could
be
an
item
of
city
business.
It
it's
unclear
right
whether
it
will
come
back
or
not
and
just
taking
a
conservative
approach.
If
we
think
that
there's
a
possibility
that
it
will
come
back,
then
that
could
be
regarded
as
an
item
of
city
business
and
again
you
know
there
could
be
a
view
that
takes
an
opposing
approach.
It's
just
simply
the
statute.
E
So
continuing
with
the
brown
act,
so
you
have
regular
and
special
meetings.
Again.
Special
meetings
only
need
24
hours
notice.
All
of
your
meetings
will
have
a
public
forum.
The
unique
thing
about
special
meetings
is
well
at
a
regular
meeting.
Members
of
the
public
can
come
in
and
just
there's
going
to
be
a
public
period
comment
period
where
they
can
talk
about
any
any
item
of
city
business.
Whether
or
not
it's
on
the
agenda.
E
Special
meeting
public
comment
periods
are
only
for
items
on
that
are
on
the
agenda
for
the
special
meeting
in
the
public
forum.
Commissioners,
if,
if
it's
not
on
the
agenda,
so
somebody
comes
in
and
wants
to
talk
about
an
item.
That's
not
on
the
agenda
again.
We
can't
have
a
full
discussion
on
that,
or
certainly
not
take
action
on
it
right
because
it
wasn't
on
the
agenda.
E
It
wasn't
noticed
24
or
72
hours
in
advance,
and
so
the
rules
that
are
in
the
brown
act
is
that
the
commission
can
refer
to
staff
and
say:
can
you
bring
this
back
or
can
you
answer
this
question
briefly
or
give
just
a
quick
bit
of
information
on
that
or
respond
briefly
to
the
comment
you
know,
certainly
after
sitting
with
commissions
and
councils,
there's
a
temptation
to
have
a
lengthy
debate
sometimes
or
to
have
a
fuller
discussion
on
an
item
that
might
be
a
hot
button
item,
but
it's
not
on
the
agenda
but
again
for
the
folks
who
didn't
know
that
item
was
going
to
come
up
and
because
it
wasn't
on
the
agenda
for
their
benefit.
E
The
chair
will
kind
of
map
out
when
that
public
comment
occurs.
There
again
there's
no
discussion
on
action
or
action,
except
for
things
that
are
on
the
agenda.
Sometimes
we
do
have
some
late
breaking
items
that
need
to
be
considered
the
day
of
we
just
you
know
today
is
the
meeting
and
something
came
up
and
it
needs
to
be
considered.
E
Certainly
that
was
happening
a
lot
during
covent
and
the
pandemic
when
we
were
figuring
out
when
things
were
shutting
down
and
how
we
were
handling
emergency
responses,
and
so
some
of
the
legislative
bodies
said
hey,
you
know,
there's
there's
a
requirement
that
there
has
to
be
a
majority.
I
think
it's
a
super
majority
vote
to
put
an
item
on
the
agenda
that
that
day
of-
and
it
has
to
have
come
in
to
the
kind
of
conscious
the
after
the
agenda
was
published
next
slide.
Please
quick
question.
Oh
please,
a.
F
F
E
Chair
and
commissioners,
yes,
I
I
think
that
is
a
good
practice.
The
brown
act
certainly
doesn't
require
commissioners
to
or
the
you
know,
to
engage
with
members
of
the
public.
It
has
a
public
comment
period
for
agenda
items.
E
You
know,
typically
through
this
type
of
business
meeting
comments
go
through
the
chair
right
and
so
it's
probably
better
and
more
efficient,
not
to
engage,
but
certainly
if
a
public
speaker
brings
up
a
point
and
there's
a
question
about
it,
then
sure
it's
appropriate
to
say
you
know
I
have
a
question
about
what
that
speaker
said
right,
but
again
in
engaging
with
members
of
the
public
can
kind
of
cascade
and-
and-
and
this
is
a
business
meeting
and
members
of
the
public
may
be
here
to
cure
an
item-
that's
down
on
the
agenda,
so
it
is
about
expediency
and
ensuring
that
every
item
is
heard
and
vetted
and
heard
efficiently.
E
Chair
and
commissioners,
I
believe
the
practice
here
is
three
minutes
per
comment
right.
So
three
minutes
per
comment.
Typically,
the
applicants
are
given
a
little
bit
more
time
to
give
a
presentation.
E
E
The
last
thing
we
want
is
somebody
to
come
back
and
say:
well,
the
commissioner.
The
chair
gave
that
person
four
minutes.
I
had
three
my
due
process
rights
or
my
interest
rights
were
violated
because
that
person
got
more
and
I
I
had
I
wanted
to
say
more
so
again,
you
know
there's
some
folks
who
come
in
they
speak
and
they
want
to
speak
again.
That
comes
up
occasionally,
if,
if
through
the
chair,
provides
that
additional
time
to
speak
theoretically,
everyone
should
be
given
that
same
opportunity
to
speak
again.
G
C
C
D
E
E
Ultimately,
if
the
city
decided,
you
know,
we
don't
think
a
brown
act,
violation
occurred
or
didn't
go
through
that
kind
of
meet
that
cure
process.
Then
the
city
could
be
sued.
It
could
be
a
writ
action
to
set
aside.
Whatever
action
was
subject
to
the
brown
act,
violation
an
injunction
to
bar
future
violations,
and
if
the
city
loses
it
would
have
to
pay
the
other
side's
attorney's
fees.
So
we
do
want
to
avoid
broad
violations
for
all
those
reasons
in
in
furtherance
of
public
transparency.
E
Next
slide,
please
so
the
next
body
of
law
that
we're
going
to
go
through
is
the
political
reform
act.
This
I
I
just
mentioned
that
the
brown
act
relates
to
kind
of
the
body.
The
political
reform
act
is
looking
at
individual
commissioners
here.
E
The
policy
behind
the
political
reform
act
is
that
we
want
the
city
business
to
be
transacted
for
the
benefit
of
the
public
and
not
for
individual
benefit
right,
and
so
the
general
rule
is
that,
if
you
have
a
financial
conflict
of
interest
is
to
disclose
that
interest,
and
it
could
be
just
a
brief
disclosure
and
then
just
disqualify
yourself
from
that
decision.
That
would
look
like
you
know,
leaving
the
room
or
leaving
the
zoom
and
just
not
participating
in
it.
It
also
means
you
know,
don't
participate
in
it
prior.
E
So
in
terms
of
talking
to
staff
about
it,
just
have
a
you
know,
arms
length,
transaction
and
not
engage
next
slide
please.
E
So
this
body
of
law
is
very,
very
twisty
and
turny,
which
is
not
a
legal
term,
but
it
there
are
rules,
and
then
there
are
exceptions
to
the
rule,
and
so
economic
interest
can
include
business
interests,
so
we're
looking
at
investments
of
two
thousand
dollars
or
more
we're
looking
at
sources
of
income,
which
is
five
hundred
dollars,
which
is
at
least
500
in
the
12
months
prior
to
a
decision
we're
looking
at
gifts
that
total
520
or
more.
E
That
are
12
months
before
decision
real
property
interest,
which
could
include
property
that
you
own
or
even
property
that
you
lease
or
you
even
lease
out
other
kind
of
personal
financial
interests
that
have
all
these
definitions
in
in
the
fppc
regulations,
and
they
could
have
direct
and
indirect
items
as
well.
I
just
want
to
touch
on
a
couple
of
these,
so
sources
of
gifts
that
could
be
cumulative
right.
So
let's
say
an
applicant
takes
out
a
commissioner
and
pays
for
lunch
and
it
it.
E
You
know
60
lunch,
but
that
happens
a
few
times
that
can,
in
the
aggregate,
become
five
five
hundred
twenty
dollars
or
more.
So,
if
that
happened,
then
the
commissioner
could
not
participate
in
the
decision
any
if
it
was
more
than
that.
Then
the
commissioner
have
to
give
that
money
back,
so
we
can't
hit
higher
than
that
threshold
sources
of
gifts,
50
or
more
have
to
be
reported
on
various
forms
as
well,
and
so
there
are
many
many
rules
that
come
along
with
these
and
there's
a
lot
of
exemptions
to
it.
Right.
E
So,
let's
say
that
you
know
it
was
a
spouse
who
gave
a
gift.
You
know
those
are
obviously
fine,
so
there's
a
lot
of
exemptions
for
it.
There's
even
an
exemption,
for
you
know
kind
of
like
a
best,
friend's
exemption,
you've
known
this
person
for
a
very,
very
long
time.
It's
typical
that
you,
trade
gifts
during
holidays
and
so.
E
I
can't
emphasize
how
much
there's
there's
a
lot
of
rules
and
exceptions
to
the
rule.
So
if
you
ever
have
any
questions
or
concerns
you
can
come
to
me,
you
can
come
to
mal
either
the
you
know
the
planning
staff
as
well
and
communicate
that
to
them,
and
we
can
help
you
walk
through
that
and
again,
though,
you
know
what
the
city
can
do
is
give
our
best
opinion
and
advice.
F
Note
please
sorry
what
about
what
I
don't.
I
don't
see
on
here
like
political
contributions
which
isn't
an
issue
at
the
planning
commission
level,
but
a
council
level.
It
is
so
let's
say
an
applicant
makes
a
thousand
dollar
political
contribution
to
a
city
council.
Member
for
their
campaign
is
that
council
member
then
disqualified
from
voting
on
an
issue.
E
No,
those
are
great
question
chair
commissioners,
that
is
not
a
disc
call.
That's
not
a
reason
for
disqualification.
It's
a
it's
a
rule.
I
I
would
assume
that
it's
balled
up
in
the
first
amendment
type
of
rights,
where
you
know
campaign
contributions
and
those
type
of
things,
are
very
protected.
Under
our
you
know,
federal
constitution,
and
so
that
would
not
be
a
disqualifying
financial
conflict.
E
There
are
issues
with
direct
and
indirect
qual
financial
conflicts
of
interest,
so,
for
example,
I've
had
a
situation
where
one
of
my
council
members,
for
example,
worked
for
a
company
that
had
a
contract
with
an
applicant,
and
it
was
a
large
dollar
contract.
So
it
wasn't.
You
know
a
source
of
that
council
member's.
E
You
know,
salary
right
and
it
wasn't
the
council
member
that
was
directly
contracting
with
that
applicant,
but
that
applicant
was
so
financially
kind
of
intertwined
with
the
employer
that
it
could
be
a
source
of
income
to
that
council
member.
So
those
are
the
types
of
things
that
we're
also
looking
for,
which
could
be
an
indirect
conflict
of
interest
as
well.
I
also
had
a
question.
For
example,
I
had
a
commissioner
who
worked
for
a
large
university
in
their
real
estate
practice
and
many
of
the
developers
that
were
coming
before
that
city.
E
She
was
working
with
in
this.
You
know
private
or
this
public
institution.
It
was
a
college,
and
so
those
are
I
mean.
I
just
raised
that
to
show
you
that
there's
a
lot
of
interesting
ways
that
this
can
come
in
and
again,
if
you
have
a
specific
question,
we
can't
analyze
it.
You
know
on
a
we
have
to
analyze
it
on
the
specifics
of
the
fact
pattern.
E
All
right
next
slide,
please
a
longer
note
about
real
property
interest,
because
this
is
kind
of
what
comes
up
a
lot
in
the
planning
commission
is.
The
fppc
has
broken
this
down
into
kind
of
three
categories.
E
E
Unless
you
know,
there's
this
clear
and
convincing
evidence
that
there's
going
to
be
no
measurable
impact
on
the
property,
so
the
typical
rule
is:
if
you
live
within
500
feet
of
a
property,
then
you're
probably
going
to
be
disqualified
from
it.
You
want
to
disclose
and
disqualify
yourself
from
it.
E
The
next
step
up
is
500
to
999
feet,
and
so
let's
say
you
live
750
feet
away
from
a
proposal
and
we're
gonna
be
looking
at
if
that
decision
would
have
any
impact
on
the
development
potential
of
your
property
on
the
income
producing
potential
of
your
property,
your
lease,
your
rent,
right,
the
highest
and
best
use
of
this
of
your
property,
the
character
of
the
change
it
will
alter
traffic
and
tends
intensive
use
parking
or
the
market
value.
E
E
Is
it
going
to
have
any
what
what
impact
is
it
going
to
have
on
your
property
and
the
next
role
is
a
thousand
feet
or
more
we're
going
to
presume
that
the
financial
effect
isn't
going
to
be
material
unless
there's
clear
and
convincing
evidence
of
a
substantial
impact
on
your
property
right
so
again
that
pocket
park?
If
it's
a
thousand
feet
or
more,
probably
not
going
to
impact
your
property,
but
if
disneyland
suddenly
decided
to
open
up
in
san
clemente-
and
it
was
2000
feet
away
from
your
property-
then
we're
going
to
presume
that.
E
F
E
Right
right
and
in
those
cases
we,
if
every
you
know,
there's
a
rule
in
that,
actually,
if
everyone's
disqualified,
then
we
can
take
straws,
pull
them
from
a
hat.
You
know
and
figure
out
who's
going
to
be
the
quorum.
That's
going
to
decide
this
issue,
fppc
has
thought
of
everything
any
any
other
questions
all
right.
Next
slide,
please
government
code
1090.
This
is
the
general
rule
that
official
can't
be
interested
in
the
city
contract.
So
let's
say
you
own
your
own
business
and
you
want
to
do
business
with
a
city.
E
Then
that's
not
going
to
be
allowed,
but
there's
also
remote
interest
in
a
list
of
non-interests.
So
you
know
I
had
a
city,
a
public
official
who
developed
an
app
that
was
very,
very
successful.
It
was
sold
to
many
cities
and-
and
there
was
a
decision
on
whether
to
for
that
city,
to
have
it-
and
you
know
after
I
think
it
was
12
months-
he
could
decide
on
it
after
he
had
kind
of
sold
the
business
and
distanced
himself.
It
became
either
a
remote
or
non-interest.
E
So
again
I
just
mentioned
that,
because
there's
many
exceptions
to
the
rule
next
slide,
please
all
right.
So
the
chair
had
brought
up
these
issues
of
due
process.
We're
going
to
be
talking
about
this
new
category
of
items,
so
the
decisions
that
are
coming
before
you
are
quasi-judicial
proceedings
where
the
applicant
is
afforded
due
process
due
process
means
notice.
We
need
to
give
an
adequate
time
to
the
applicant
to
know
when
he
or
she
is
going
to
be.
E
The
matter
is
going
to
be
heard
and
an
opportunity
to
speak,
and
it
sounds
like
there's
a
city
rule
that
provides
applicants
even
more
time
than
members
of
the
public
to
speak,
which
is
great.
It's
it's
fine
to
have
those
discussions
right.
I
you
know,
but
but
with
the
applicant
or
those
in
the
community
right,
but
it's
but
again
you
can't
make
a
decision
or
in
the
affirmative.
You
have
to
listen
to
all
the
evidence.
That's
presented
in
the
public
hearing
right,
so
staff
presentation,
you
know
the
applicant.
E
The
voice
is
opposed
and
in
favor
of
it
and
base
the
decision
on
the
full
kind
of
package
that's
presented
and
in
some
cases,
mal
or
the
city
attorney
will
say,
hey
to
be
very
clear.
Let's
disclose
your
ex
parte
communications,
which
are
communications
outside
of
this
hearing,
and
we
would
go
down
the
row
and
say
you
know:
each
person
would
say
whether
they
met
with
you
know
the
applicant
or
or
what
ex-parte
communications
they
had
and
the
reason
we
might
do.
E
E
What
we
just
talked
about
in
terms
of
the
fppc
rules
and
regulations
in
the
political
reform
act
was
about
financial
conflicts
of
interest.
But
when
we
talk
about
bias,
that's
a
different
thing
that
may
not
be
financial
right.
So
we've
had
situations
where
you
know
a
church.
Application
has
come
up
and
one
of
the
public
officials
was
very
very
involved
in
that
church
and
probably
wanted
that
application
to
go
through
right
again.
E
This
is
a
what
we
might
call
a
common
law
conflict
of
interest,
and
we
would
let
that
commissioner
know
you
know
the
optics
of
it
may
not
be
great,
but
ultimately
it's
your
decision,
whether
or
not
you
can
be
impartial
or
not.
So
it
may
not
be
a
financial
conflict
of
interest,
but
there
could
be
bias
issues
as
well
and
and
what
we're
looking
at
you
know
in
terms
of
bias
in
you
know
if
the
applicant
didn't
get
enough
time
or
didn't
have
enough
notice
about
the
hearing.
E
It's
a
risk,
a
legal
challenge
right,
there's
some
interesting
case
law
out
there
where
an
applicant
has
come
in
and
it
was
a
council
in
los
angeles,
and
you
know,
one
of
the
council
members
was
taking
a
phone
call.
E
Another
council
member
was
talking
to
a
staff
member,
another
council
member
left
and
came
back
20
minutes
later,
and
the
applicant
successfully
challenged
that
and
said
you
know
I
they
obviously
weren't
paying
attention
when
I
was
telling
them
about
my
application
and
fighting
for
my
property
right,
and
so
they
had
to
redo
that
hearing,
because
you
know
it
was
a
violation
of
due
process.
So
I
just
want
to
give
a
note
on
that.
E
Chair
and
commissioners,
I
think
that
is
a
good
good
practice
and
you
know
it
doesn't
have
to
be
a
dramatic
mic
drop.
I
met
with
the
applicant,
but
it
could
just
be
simply
in
the
deliberations
you
know.
Yesterday
I
talked
to
the
application
applicant,
you
know
he
or
she
walked
me
through
the
project.
You
know
I've
also
considered
everything
that
was
said
in
the
public
hearing.
I
I
heard
what
staff's
report
was
and
I'm
making
my
decision
on.
E
You
know
what
I've
heard
today
and
just
making
it
very
clear
on
the
record
and
the
record
is
really
important
to
us
because,
ultimately,
that
is
what
determines
you
know
a
case
right.
So
let's
say
the
city
gets
sued.
We
would
end
up
taking
that
transcript
and
bringing
it
to
the
court
and
that's
kind
of
like
this
closed
case,
and
so
it's
important
to
channel
those
things
publicly
and
say
you
know
here's
what
I
consider
so
I
think
it
is
good
practice
any
other
questions.
E
Okay,
next,
five,
please
we're
almost
done.
I
know
I've
kept
you
captive
for
a
while.
Thank
you
for
listening
rules
of
order
and
debate
again.
The
chair
is
the
parliamentarian
and
having
that
parliamentary
procedure
again,
it
is
a
business
meeting,
we're
looking
at
it
to
be
efficient
and
streamlined.
So
we
want
to
allow
every
member
to
be
heard.
Make
decisions
without
confusion.
E
You
might
have
competing
motions,
they're
voted
in
reverse
order,
so
the
second
one
that
was
moved
or
second
one
that
was
brought
up
would
be
voted
on
first
and
the
first
one
last
you
can
have
friendly
amendments
and
substitute
motions,
and
so
there
are
rules
of
order
and
debate
and-
and
that
is
to
make
everything
just
streamlined
next
slide,
please.
E
These
are
a
general
kind
of
script
of
how
to
handle
emotion.
E
I
know
that
you
know
most
of
the
commissioners
here
have
been
on
this
body,
and
so
this
isn't
going
to
be
too
new,
so
I
won't
go
through
to
this
too
deeply,
but
again,
a
motion,
a
second
there's,
a
restating
of
the
motion
and
then
there's
debate
on
it.
It's
important
for
one
person
to
talk
at
a
time
and
for
the
the
speaker
to
be
recognized
by
the
chair.
The
chair
will
put
the
question
to
a
vote
and
then
announce
the
results
of
the
vote.
E
Findings
are
what
you're
you're
gonna
see
in
the
resolutions
that
support
the
item
right
so
you're
gonna
see
a
staff
report
and
then
you're
gonna
see
the
resolution,
and
the
resolution
will
have
you
know
kind
of
the
res
the
recitals
and
then
in
a
cup
for
example,
certain
findings
have
to
be
made
in
order
to
approve
an
item.
E
It's
a
couple
slides
down
the
line
and
you
don't
have
to
move
over
there,
but
for
a
cup,
for
example,
we're
looking
at
whether
the
proposed
use
is
permitted
within
that
subject
zone
the
site
suitable
for
the
type
of
intensity
and
use
proposed.
It
won't
be
detrimental
to
the
public,
health,
welfare
and
safety
or
negatively
impact
surrounding
land
uses,
and
so
the
reason
why
we're
very
big
on
findings
is
again
it's
to
provide
this
commission
with
the
framework
for
making
the
decision
help
guide.
E
The
biggest
reason
why
I
want
really
robust
and
good
findings
is
because,
if
an
item
is
sued
on
so
the
commission
makes
a
decision
we
get
sued
again.
That
transcript
is
kind
of
like
this
closed
package
that
gets
sent
to
the
court
and
it
might
include
the
minutes
or
the
audio
from
this
hearing
and
then
all
the
documents
included.
So
the
judge
is
looking
at
the
resolution
and
the
findings
and
deciding
on
that.
E
Whether
our
decision
or
the
city's
decision
was
capricious
which
is
just
kind
of
there
was
no
reason
or
rhyme
to
it
or
it
was
well
supported
and
you
know
factually
underpinned,
and
so
that's
the
reason
why
I
look
at
good
findings
next
slide,
please
in
in
terms
of
except
unacceptable
findings.
Again
we
want
it
to
be
in
that
resolution
supporting
the
action.
That's
you
know
when
when
a
motion
is
made,
it's
I
move
to
approve
resolution
22
dash
blank
right,
so
that
is
the
actual
decision
that
the
commission
is
making.
E
So
we
can't
you
know,
while
the
other
items
are
supportive,
the
staff
report,
the
transcript
of
a
meeting
debate,
those
type
of
things
those
are
supporting
to
the
resolution.
Findings
bullet
point:
three
is
unacceptable.
Findings
is
findings
that
are
completely
unrelated
to
the
statutory
requirements.
I
just
noted
the
findings
for
a
cup.
For
example,
I've
been
with
other
legislative
bodies
who
have
said
you
know
just
as
an
example.
Well,
that
use
isn't
going
to
make
a
lot
of
money
for
the
city.
It
doesn't
have
a
lot
of
tax
purposes.
E
It's
a
service
use
that
you
know.
We
don't
really
want
here.
Those
type
of
findings
aren't
related
to
the
statutory
requirements.
That's
a
market
issue
and
not
in
you
know
in
in
our
code,
and
so
those
are
the
types
of
things
that
we
worry
about
in
our
office
next
slide.
Please
again,
I
read
these
through.
These
are
just
the
cup
findings
that
you'll
actually
be
considering
tonight.
One
of
the
items
next
slide.
Please
we're
getting
two.
C
E
A
C
A
question
that
I've
always
been
uncomfortable
but
with
say
cell
towers
and
whether
or
not
they
should
be
within
a
certain
distance.
We've
always
had
commissioners.
That
say
I
don't
want
to
say
it's
going
to
be
safe
for
them,
but
we're
obligated.
C
E
We'll
we'll
probably
get
into
that
particular
item,
but
generally
chair
and
commissioners,
you
have
the
statutory
requirements
right,
so
cup
findings,
let's
go
down
to
sea,
which
is
the
proposed
use,
for
example,
will
not
be
detrimental
to
public
health,
safety
or
welfare
or
material
injurious
to
properties.
Improvements
in
the
vicinity,
certainly
something
like
that-
could
be
used
as
additional
supporting
evidence
or
it
could
not
be
right.
There
there's
a
certain
art
to
making
findings,
and
one
of
the
things
we
like
to
see
is
robust
findings
right.
E
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
we
didn't
like
was
just
conclusory
findings
in,
and
it
just
said
the
proposed.
Sometimes
we
we
see
we
you
know
not
here,
but
we
would.
We
might
come
across
a
resolution
or
a
finding
that
just
repeats
the
requirement
and
says
this
is
not
going
to
be
detrimental
to
the
public
and
it
doesn't
have
that
additional
factual
kind
of
undergirding
right,
and
so
it
could
be
used
as
support.
E
You
know
all
you
know,
statements
of
fact
can
be
used
as
support,
and
sometimes
you
can
use
a
variety
of
facts
or
you
can
use
a
few
facts.
Typically,
we
like
to
see
robust
findings
so
not
to
answer
your
question
about
the
wireless
application
which
is
going
to
be
heard
shortly.
This
isn't.
C
D
Well,
chair,
you
know
I'll
jump
in
here,
the
there's
an
exemption,
or,
I
should
say,
there's
a
probe,
there's
a
a
restriction
on
what
the
planning
commission
can
make
a
decision
on
related
to
wireless
facilities
if
they
are
provided
within
a
certain
range
of
of
power
and
frequency.
D
If
what
they're
proposing
does
not
allow
them,
if
they're
not
in
that
range,
then
that's
that's
something
else
entirely.
The
thefts.
The
fcc
is
essentially
saying
that
there
is
a
there's,
a
class
of
wireless
facilities
that
the
federal
government
has
reviewed
and
they
have
deemed
it
essentially,
okay
for
for
locations
around
residential
properties
and
and
that's
what
we're
precluded
from
you're
precluded
from
from
looking
from
weighing
in
on.
D
If
it's
within
those
those
those
parameters,
if
somebody's
proposing
something
outside
of
those
parameters,
then
the
finding
could
be
made
that
there
there
could
be
a
threat,
but
if,
as
long
as
they're
within
the
fcc's
guidelines,
that's
that's
when
that
finding
it
it
relies
on
the
federal
government's
determination,
but
that's
when
that
finding
essentially
can
be
made.
C
D
C
D
Yes,
that
this
is
a
nuanced
issue.
We
we
do
have
to
work
around
larger
governments,
restrictions
from
time
to
time
and
so
staff
and
in
our
city
attorney's
office,
will
do
what's
necessary
to
make
sure
the
decisions
you
make
are
legally
legally
sound.
E
Any
additional
questions:
okay,
all
right!
Thank
you
last
second,
to
last
slide,
which
is
the
california
public
records
act.
So
next
slide,
please,
okay!
This
is
just
kind
of
one
last
category
of
open
government
and
transparency
laws.
California,
public
records
act
that
provides
that
every
person
has
a
right
to
inspect
public
records
of
any
state
or
local
agency.
E
A
public
record
is
expansively
defined
to
not
just
include
hard
copy
documents,
but
also
electronic
ones
as
well.
So
email
text
messages
photos
those
things
if
they
pertain
to
public
business,
they
don't
necessarily
have
to
be
living
on
the
city
server,
but
certainly,
if
you're,
using
your
personal
accounts
or
even
devices
to
transact
city
business,
then
that
could
be
subject
to
the
public
records
act.
It's
not
as
if
we're
going
to
ask
you
for
passwords
and
get
into
your
devices.
E
E
If
it's
on
the
city
server,
then
the
city
captures
all
that
so
just
to
note
on
that
is
that
those
documents
that
you
create
on
a
city
server,
aren't
private
and
and
could
be
kind
of
gone
through
for
responding
to
public
records
requests
and
we
do
recommend.
Does
everyone
get
a
public
email
here?
Send
comment:
email,
okay,
great!
I
wasn't
sure
about
that.
So
it's
better
to
use
your
san
clemente
email
account
for
transacting
city
business
than
your
personal
accounts.
D
You
know,
I
would
say
every
day
would
be
nice,
but
every
other
day,
if
there's
something
special,
we
might
call-
and
just
let
you
know,
you
know
that
we've
emailed
something
but
expect
regular
communications
through
that
city
email
address
and
if
you
ever
have
any
problems
logging
into
it.
Please
contact
me
and
I
will
connect
you
with
our
it
department
to
make
sure
that
you
have
that
access.
C
E
Slide,
which
is
just
a
thank
you
for
listening
for
the
hour,
we're
right
on
time
for
the
next
meeting,
and
so,
if
you
have
any
questions,
feel
free
to
get
in
touch
with
mal
or
myself.
Our
contact
information
is
on
this
slide.
Thank
you.
So
much.
D
I
will
have
planning
staff
email
a
copy
of
this
presentation
tomorrow
morning
to.
F
Sure
go
ahead.
Sorry,
real
quick,
we're
obligated
every
couple
years
to
have
a
two
hour
training
session
on
this
right.
E
No
actually
it
well,
I
I
I
it
is
a
very
specific
presentation.
Unfortunately,
it
just
goes
much
more
in
depth.
The
one
experience
I've
had
is
the
fppc
does
provide
this
training,
and
I
know
that
somebody
took
it
and
stopped
at
an
hour,
and
you
know
30
minutes
instead
of
doing
two
hours
and
his
certificate
wasn't
accepted.
So
that's
my
context
for
saying
no
and
and
it's
the
presentation
is
a
little
bit
different
than
this.
Okay.
Thank.
F
C
D
You
can
take
as
much
time
as
you
want.
Five
minutes
sounds
reasonable.
We
could
call
it
10,
just
let's
start
even
it
out
six
times.
A
C
We
have
a
new
commissioner
of
brent
davis
with
us
tonight
and
brent.
Would
you
lead
us
in
the
pledge
of
allegiance.
D
Commissioner
cosgrove
here,
commissioner
davis
here,
commissioner
mccacken,
is
not
not
not
present.
Commissioner
prescott
here
vice
chair
mccann
here
and
chair
crandall.
C
Here,
the
next
item
is
special
orders
of
business.
We
have
the
first
item,
a
selection
of
planning,
commission
chair
vice
chair
and
chair
pro
tem,
I'm
going
to
be
stepping
aside
as
chair
and
I
wanted
to
since
we
haven't
really
talked
to
each
person.
Just
query:
everybody
here
and
start
with
you.
Karen,
are
you
interested
in
either
chair
vice
chair
or
pro
tem.
A
C
Okay,
but
maybe
you'll,
keep
your
thoughts
open
on
one
of
the
vice
chair
pro
tem,
just
probably
well.
At.
C
A
I
I
don't
okay,
I
don't
want
to
inconvenience
anyone.
C
Very
good
brent:
are
you
interested
in
any
of
those
three
or
you
want
to
get
your
arms
around
this
process?
First.
That
sounds
like
a
great
idea.
C
G
C
You're
only
gonna
be
on
the
commission
for
one
more
year,
possibly
so
I'll
be
able
to
help
mentor
a
little
bit
new
chair,
okay
yeah.
I
suppose
I'm
open
to
okay,
since
we
have
that
makes
it
a
little
easier,
since
we
have
one
person
who
has
stepped
up.
C
Secret
ballot,
but
so
people
didn't
feel
obligated
to
any
one
person,
but
I
would
nominate
commissioner
mccann
to
be
chair
for
the
next
year.
Do
we
have
a
second?
I.
C
Second
by
commissioner
prescott
and
we'll
do
a
vote.
Roll
call,
commissioner
prescott
aye,
commissioner
davis
aye
commissioner
camp
hi,
mr
cosgrove
aye
and
commissioner
crandall
is
an
eye
also
so.
C
The
meeting
will
go,
let's
see,
do
you
want
to
change
seats,
adam.
D
Chair,
could
I
just
request
that.
D
Previously,
vice
chair
mccann
has
a
vote
on
this.
On
on
his
appointment,
you
didn't
ask
me
to
vote.
C
He
gets
a
vote,
commissioner
mccann.
How
do
you,
okay
unanimous?
Thank
you
for
the
record
hand
that
back
the
meeting.
D
For
for
I
t
it
would
be
great
if
everybody
stayed
where
they
were
so
we
don't
have
to
adjust.
However,
we
we
would
do
it
with
a
break
if
the
committee
would
or
the
commission
would
like.
F
I
think
we're
good,
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
your
vote
of
confidence,
so
with
that
next
position
to
select
would
be
the
vice
chair.
Commissioner
camp,
you
were
unclear
as
to
which
position
that
you
would
be
willing
to
do.
F
F
F
F
With
that
being
volunteered,
thank
you
for
volunteering.
Let's
just
have
a
roll
call
vote
then,
for
I
would
nominate
commissioner
cameron
cosgrove
for
vice
chair,
commissioner
prescott.
A
A
F
Commissioner,
camp
aye
and
commissioner
cosgrove
aye:
okay,
that's
unanimous!
Congratulations!
Vice
chair
cosgrove,
a
point
of
clarification
for
adam
at
different
times.
F
Pro
tem,
okay,
so
then,
commissioner
camp
has
volunteered
to
serve
as
chair
pro
tem.
Do
we
have
a
nomination
for
that
yeah
I'll
move.
A
F
As
well,
so
that's
unanimous
congratulations
and
thank
you
for
volunteering.
Moving
on.
We
need
to
select
for
design
review
subcommittee
members,
there's
three
active
members
and
in
one
alternate
member.
F
Let's
just
go
around
and
see
who
might
be
interested
and
willing
to
serve
on
that.
Commissioner
prescott
difficult.
F
Okay,
commissioner,
but
chairpro
tim
kemp.
F
Okay
thanks,
I
was
formerly
on
it
and
I
I
have
been
on
it
and
it's
been
great.
I
would
be
willing
to
be
an
alternate
member,
but
prefer
not
to
be
an
active
member
at
this
time.
So
with
that,
I
guess
I
would
nomin.
I
would
propose
that
the
three
people
that
volunteered
for
full-time
service
being
on
the
design
review
subcommittee
being
commissioner
crandall
vice
chair,
cosgrove
and
chair
pro
tem
camp,
I
would
propose
to
nominate
them
as
full-time
active
and
myself
as
alternate.
F
A
F
Commissioner
davies
aye,
commissioner
crandall
aye
vice
chair,
cosgrove
aye,
chair
pro
tem
kemp
aye,
and
I
am
and
I
as
well
so
passes
all
those
pass
unanimously.
So
thank
you
again
for
volunteering,
especially
on
the
design
review
subcommittee.
I
know
that's
a
bunch
of
extra
work,
so
thank
you.
Moving
on,
we
have
the
minutes
of
the
regular
planning
commission
of
june
22nd.
F
Motioned
by
commissioner
prescott,
second
by
vice
chair
cosgrove,
any
discussion
or
anyone.
Okay,
then,
let's
do
a
roll
call
vote.
Commissioner
prescott
aye,
commissioner
davies,
you
weren't
there,
so
you
should
abstain.
That's.
F
Awesome,
thank
you,
commissioner.
Crandall
aye
vice
chair,
cosgrove
hi
chair
pro
tim
kemp
hi,
and
I
am
and
I
as
well
moving
on.
Do
we
have
anyone
wishing
to
speak
to
the
planning
commission
this
evening
for
any
items
that
are
not
on
the
agenda.
F
Okay,
seeing
none
we'll
move
on
to
the
consent
calendar,
we
have
the
consent
calendar
as
outlined
in
the
agenda.
Does
anybody
want
to
pull
this
and
discuss
it
or
I
would
entertain
about
emotion
on
the
consent
calendar.
F
G
F
F
D
Yes,
we
do
I'm
joined
by
our
senior
planner,
sarah
thomas.
She
will
be
providing
the
staff
presentation.
The
one
a
member
of
the
applicant's
team
is
here
as
well,
and
we
have
a
powerpoint
presentation
and
if
I
t
could
bring
that
up.
H
H
So
t-mobile
is
requesting
the
installation
of
a
new
wireless
telecommunication
facility
on
an
existing
southern
california,
edison
sce
utility
tower
on
city-owned
property.
The
site
is
located
in
the
telego
specific
plan
which
identifies,
which
is
identified
as
in
the
land
use
designation
of
the
property
as
a
privately
owned,
open
space.
H
Next
slide,
please,
the
project
location
is
located
west
of
avenida,
la
pada
and
north
of
camino
del
rio.
I
tried
to
provide
two
aerial
views
of
the
site
location
just
for
contacts
next
slide.
Please,
the
wireless
facility
would
include
six
panel
antennas,
six
to
promote
radio
units,
two
equipment,
cabinets
four
baseband
units
and
then
one
gps
antenna
and
correlating
jumpers
and
cables.
H
This
is
an
existing
sce
tower.
That's
118
feet
tall
and
the
the
proposed
t-mobile
panel
antennas
will
be
at
the
39
feet
height
with
the
proposed
equipment
which
is
located
at
the
base
of
the
site.
H
I
tried
to
highlight
it
as
close
as
possible
to
see
where
the
locations
they
will
be
on
the
towers
next
slide,
please
so
under
project
analysis
for
the
site
location,
so
t-mobile
has
selected
the
site
due
to
its
favorable
location
and
improving
service
within
the
communities
to
the
east
and
west
of
the
subject
site
along
avenida
la
para:
loca,
locating
the
wireless
facility
on
an
existing
sc
tower
minimizes,
the
potential
visual
impacts
that
can
be
caused
by
installing
new
antennas
support
structures
and
the
proposed
wireless
telecommunication
facility
will
be
integrated
into
the
tower
by
being
painted
to
match
the
tower.
H
H
Primary
consideration
and
review
of
the
cup
is
to
ensure
the
project.
Compatibility
with
the
surrounding
land
uses
surrounding
land
uses
are
open
space
with
the
closest
residential
communities
located
approximately
one
thousand
to
eleven
hundred
feet
from
the
proposed
sc
tower
next
slide,
please.
H
So
under
the
cup
findings,
which
you
can
see
on
page
one
of
the
staff
report,
are
they
listed
on
page
one
of
the
staff
report?
The
proposed
wireless
facility
will
not
alter
the
height
of
the
existing
sce
utility
tower,
as
it
will
be
attached
to
the
tower.
The
proposed
wireless
facility
will
not
create
adverse
visual
impacts
to
the
surrounding
area
or
to
the
city
at
large,
and
the
proposed
wireless
facility
is
consistent
with
the
city's
general
plan
and
the
wireless
master
plan
design
standards
next
slide.
H
Please
steph
recommends
that
the
planning
commission
hereby
finds
hereby
finds
and
determines
that
the
proposed
project
is
categorically
exempt
from
sqa
pursuant
under
section
one
five:
three,
oh
one
and
15303
next
slide.
Please
saf's
recommending
recommends
that
the
planning
commission
do
the
following
one
determine
the
project
is
categorically
exempt
from
sql
under
section
15301,
which
is
a
class
one,
existing
facilities
and
section
15303
class
three,
which
is
new
construction
or
conversion
of
small
structures
and
then
two
to
adopt
a
resolution.
H
F
A
Have
one
question,
mr
chairman:
sarah
does
the
utility
I'm
assuming
the
utility
has
no
objection.
H
No,
they
do
not,
and
we
have
in
a
a
letter
approving
that
they
will
allow
this.
A
H
Their
tower,
we
wouldn't
happen
to
have
a
copy
of
that
letter
with
me.
I
don't
have
it
on
me,
but
I
I
can
provide
it.
H
Yes,
absolutely
it's
if
it
makes
it's
actually
part
of
our
trackit
system,
so
it's
uploaded
and
it's
can
be
viewed
on
our
trackade
software.
G
I
have
a
thought
you
know
when
we're
talking
about
visual
impact,
yes,
chain,
link
fence
doesn't
really
do
it.
For
me,
visually
is
this
chain-link
fence
to
maybe
have
some
of
those
brown
slats
in
it
or
something
to
kind
of
disrupt
the
chain-link
fence?
You
know
like
if,
if
I
have
a
chain-link
fence
between
me
and
my
neighbor,
I
could
beautify
that
just
a
little
bit
by
putting
those
little
slats
in
and
weaving
them
in.
H
The
painting
was
for
the
actual
equipment-
that's
going
to
be
on
the
tower
itself
for
the
chain
link.
Maybe
the
applicant
can
speak
to
that.
I
know
that
sce
is
very
particular.
We
had
made
some
recommendations,
possibly
about
landscaping
and
or
putting
a
a
camera,
and
they
were
very
specific
about
not
having
any
other
anything
that
would
alter
their
site
in
any
way,
shape
or
form.
They
were
very
specific
about
the
their
engineer
to
only
allow
the
equipment
that
t-mobile
is
requesting
to
approve.
H
No,
we
actually
got
an
official
letter
from
them
saying
that
they
they
don't
want
to
allow
landscaping
just
for
access
and
or
I
think
fire
hazards.
F
C
H
Yes,
okay,
there
was
under
attachment.
Let's
see,
I
think
it
was
attachment
two
which
was
the
photo
simulation.
It
showed
the
visualization
of
where
the
tower
is
yeah.
A
H
Different
photo
simulations
showing
where
it
is
from,
if
you're
standing
next
to
it,
even
as
they
went
as
far
as
showing
it
from
where
in
a
residential
community
they
can
see
it.
I
mean
they
can
obviously
see
the
tower,
because
it's
huge
but
you're
not
likely
to
see
that
equipment.
So.
C
C
C
I
C
Those
the
you
know
the
part
of
the
antenna
or
whatever
it
does
stick
out
beyond
the
footprint
of
that
towel.
C
D
Those
would
be
questions
for
the
applicant.
They
can
describe
more
of
the
the
specific
construction
of
of
these
of
these
features.
At
this
point,
the
request
is
simply
for
the
location,
approval.
C
H
C
A
I
was
just
wondering
I
mean
the
utilities
are
very
specific
about
you
know,
sharing
their
tower
with
another
entity,
and
I
that
letter
would
have
probably
provided
more
insight
to
some
of
our
questions.
Is
there
anything
else
in
that
letter
that
you
could
share
that
addressed
that
footprint.
H
The
letter
is
basically
just
giving
permission
to
t-mobile
to
allow
them
to
put
the
equipment
on
the
on
edison's
tower.
That's
pretty.
They
didn't
disclose
any
other
information
pertaining
to
the
design
other
than
what
their
and
what
t-mobile
submitted
to
their
engineers
and
they
approved
it.
That
was
what
was
they're,
allowing
them
to
do.
H
F
Any
other
questions
for
staff.
I
have
a
couple:
how
far
is
the
tower
from
la
pada,
approximately.
B
B
D
Yeah,
the
roadway
width
is
probably
70
feet,
so
it's
at
least
100
feet
away
figure.
One
in
the
staff
report
shows
a
location
map.
This
is
the
closest
tower.
I
believe,
on
this
side
of
la
pada
to
lapata
and
the
applicant
can
speak
more
to
the
coverage
needs,
but
it's
as
the
towers
move
further
away
from
la
pada.
D
They
start
going
a
little
bit
downhill
and
I
believe
that
might
be
one
of
the
issues
related
to
coverage.
But
the
applicant
will,
I'm
sure,
we'll
address
that
in
there
in
their
presentation.
F
Okay,
thank
you.
You
said
that
the
applicant
is
going
to
sign
a
lease
with
the
city.
H
Right
we
own
the
land
and
that's
part
of
our
requirements,
but
that
comes
after
we,
we
approve
the
cup
and
we
work
internally
on
that
with
them.
Okay,
yeah.
D
Just
more
information
on
the
process
for
the
land,
lease
agreement,
those
are
reviewed
by
the
city
council,
and
so
that
will
be
reviewed
and
approved
by
the
by
the
council.
As
far
as
the
amount
and
the
details
of
that
of
that
lease.
E
Thank
you
chair.
That
is
correct,
that
there's
no
financial
conflict
of
interest.
F
J
Evening,
commissioners,
thank
you
staff
for
the
presentation.
My
name
is
damian
piccardo
with
coastal
business
group.
I'm
here
representing
t-mobile
tonight
as
a
resident
of
san
clemente.
Recent
I'm
very
happy
to
be
here
and
be
presenting
to
you
guys,
and
you
know,
really
bringing
a
benefit
to
the
community
is
what
I
feel
and
a
good
project.
I
think
it's
it's
one
of
the
better
designs
that
that
I've
worked
on
for
for
wireless
carriers.
You
know
all
including
t-mobile
to
to
get
into
some
of
these
questions.
J
I
tried
to
write
a
lot
of
them
down
so
feel
free
to
add
in
as
I
go
through
them
I'll.
Take
them
one
by
one
from
basically
where
I
got
down
from
the
top.
So
there's
some
questions
about
sce
and
their
approval
through
this
process
and
making
sure
that
we
have
their
approvals.
I
work
with
sc
every
day
gmo
boards
with
sc
every
day
we
have
a
master
agreement
with
sce
which
and
this
relationship
that
we
we
go
through
them.
J
Everything
has
to
go
through
their
approval
before
they
would
allow
any
sort
of
installation
on
their
towers.
It
goes
through
a
very
strict
approval,
as
sarah
mentioned
they
have.
They
have
engineering
look
at
it.
They
have
their
land,
their
land
team.
Look
at
it.
They
have
a
special
wireless
team
that
looks
at
it.
So
there's
a
lot
of
groups
within
sce.
It's
a
very
thorough
review.
J
They
have
a
lot
of
limitations
for
us
actually
and
we
prefer
to
usually
have
more
equipments
on
our
towers,
but
they
do
limit
a
lot
of
what
we
can
do
here
in
terms
of
chain
link
fences
and
installing
slats.
I
would
have
to
confirm
with
sce
on
that,
I
think
from
t-mobile's
perspective.
We
would
be
open
to
to
installing
slots
if,
if
sce
were
to
allow
us
to
do
so,
I'm
not
sure
how
we
would
handle
that
in
terms
of
approval
on
adding
that
design.
J
J
I
did
personally
go
through
the
communities,
both
east
and
west
of
this
tower
and
where
you
would
be
able
to
see,
this
is
very
limited
to
kind
of
further
away
from
apache
and
each
community
by
the
time
you'd
get
there,
but
I
didn't
have
glasses
on.
I
definitely
couldn't
see
it
with
glasses,
as
you
can
see
in
a
photo
sim,
they're,
they're,
pretty
small,
and
you
basically
see
just
the
antennas
towards
the
center
of
the
tower.
J
There's
a
question
about:
does
edison
maintain
our
equipment?
No,
they
do
not.
T-Mobile
would
maintain
our
own
equipment.
If
we
did
need
to
maintain,
we
always
have
to
go
through
edison,
no
matter
how
small
or
big
it
is.
If
we
have
to
build
outside
equipment,
essentially
edison
needs
notification
and
or
approval
of
what
we
are
doing
for
changing
equipment.
J
We
definitely
will
need
approval
for
medicine
prior
there's,
some
questions
about
equipment
protruding
outside
of
the
tower,
and
if
we
could
install
within
the
tower
for
the
antennas,
we
could
not
install
within
the
tower
steel
for
the
antenna
portion
and
sc
strict
engineering
guidelines
number
one
and
number
two.
If
we
had
our
antennas
within
there'd,
be
interference
with
the
steel
in
front
of
the
tenants.
So
essentially
the
antennas
have
to
have
a
clear
line
of
sight
and
can't
have
anything
obstructing
their
their
path
and
signal.
J
I
think
the
nature
of
the
comet
within
the
envelope.
So
if
you
had
a
straight
above
view
planned
view
of
the
tower,
the
antennas
are
narrower
than
the
base
of
the
tower
and
then
all
of
our
equipment
with
this.
J
So
essentially,
if
you
took
the
envelope
as
the
base
of
the
tower
up,
all
of
our
equipment
is
within
that
that
frame
the
cabinets
are,
will
not
be
proposed
on
a
concrete
pad
due
to
the
grade
on
the
slope
of
this
tower,
we're
actually
having
to
propose
a
steel
platform,
there's
going
to
be
case,
ons
that
go
down
doing
a
soil
report
currently
to
ensure
that's
all
going
to
pass
through
planet
check,
of
course,
but
that'll
be
a
steel
graded
platform.
J
J
While
I
was
sitting
based
on
on
the
site
plan
and
the
scale
on
the
site
plan,
it
appears
to
be
over
400
feet,
I'm
just
going
to
use
that
as
the
meaning,
but
appears
to
be
over
400
feet
from
lapada
and
as
for
the
lease
we
are
working
with
with
jonathan
lightfoot
with
the
city
in
our
lease
discussions
been
discussing
with
them.
Probably
for
the
past
three
weeks,
but
as
as
was
mentioned,
this
will
come
to
the
commission
as
well
for
final
approvals.
J
Don't
currently
have
any
information
on
on
that
rate
yet,
but
hopefully
we
will
come
to
a
conclusion.
That's
a
benefit
for
everybody.
Hopefully
I
got
to
most,
if
not
everything
but
we'll
stand
up
here.
As
long
as
I
have
and
answer
as
many
questions
as
possible.
F
Seeing
none
we'll
close
the
public
hearing
and
I
open
it
up
for
discussion
or
thoughts
and
comments
and
on
this
item,
commissioner
crandall.
C
Yeah,
we've
done
a
lot
of
cell
towers
in
the
city
over
the
years,
ones
that
are
near
residential
ones
that
are
in
a
view
corridor.
C
We
either
find
better
locations
for
them
or
they
do
get
hidden
by
landscaping
and
or
bow
tree
look.
So
yes,
we
are
aesthetically
minded
about
these
cell
towers,
this
one's
a
little
bit
unique
that
it's
already
on
a
huge
structure.
We
got
some
up
by
a
couple
of
the
water
tanks.
I
think
that
are
masked,
and
so
those
comments
are
good
and
valid,
and
we
do
do
that.
I
think
this
one.
It's
kind
of
a.
C
C
And
I
can
make
on
this
particular
one.
All
the
findings
and
the
one
item
c
the
proposed
use
will
not
be
detrimental
to
health.
I'm
accepting
that
one,
knowing
that
the
intensity
of
the
antenna
falls
within
the
is
it
fcc.
A
C
Fcc
limits
that
we
have
to
approve
it,
so
I
can
support
support
this
application.
C
A
C
Massive
structure,
I
mean
it's
only
39
feet
when
this
whole
thing's
120,
almost
so
yeah
I
mean
it'd,
be
nice
if
it
could
be
within
the
framework,
but
I
understand
that
it
doesn't
doesn't
function
properly.
If
that's
the
case,
it
would
be
because
you
know
you
see
these
trees
and
they're,
not
they're,
obviously
not
trees.
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
almost
more
annoying,
so
you
know
to
me
it
seems
it
seems
like
a
good,
a
good
solution
and
it
gets
them
the
coverage
that
they
want.
So
I'm
and
I'd
like,
like
commissioner
crandall.
B
Just
would
add
that
the
visual
impact
isn't
changing
that
much
the
structure's
already
there.
People
are
used
to
it,
so
no
one's
really
probably
gonna
notice
the
antennas.
So
I
agree
with
that
with
everything
people
have
already
said.
A
G
G
And
I
don't
know
how
they're
going
to
mask
it
like
they
do
with
the
the
water
towers,
but
it'd
be
great
to
see
some
slats
or
something
in
there.
It's
not
on
the
vertical.
I
don't
want
to
do
a
tree
out
of
that,
but
but
just
the
bottom
little
box
that
it's
going
in
having
chain
link
around
it.
It's
not
a
fan
chain,
so
it'd
be
cool.
He
had
mentioned
that
he's
gonna
pitch
to
sce
or
somebody
to
get
that
approved.
So
that'd
be
great.
If
we
could
see
you
guys
cool
with
that.
C
F
I'd
love
to
hear
what
commissioner
prescott
thinks
about
this
project,
but-
and
I
have
my
own
thoughts
but
when
everyone's
done
kind
of
discussing,
I
would
suggest
that
you
consider
making
a
motion
to
approve
the
project,
but
you'd
like
to
see
slats
added
in
to
the
chain
link
if
possible,
and
that
way
staff
can
work
with
the
applicant
and
if
it
can
happen,
then
it'll
happen
and
if
not
it
won't,
they
don't
have
to
come
back
to
us
for
reapproval,
so
consider
making
a
motion
in
a
minute
chair.
Our
count,
commissioner
prescott.
A
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
agree
with
the
other
commissioners
as
far
as
the
tower
is
very
pretty
as
it
is,
and
I
don't
think
adding
anything
to
it,
it
will
be
one
way
or
the
other.
As
far
as
the
aesthetics
I
I've
driven
by
there
so
many
times,
but
I'm
just
used
to
seeing
the
tall
towers.
A
F
C
I
was
thinking
on
those
slats
right
now,
it's
a
transparent
fence,
it's
a
metal
tower.
C
The
equipment
is
smaller
than
the
chain-link
fence
area
and
it
almost
seems
like
putting
slats
is
going
to
draw
more
attention
to
it
and
make
it
this
funny
square
block
that
you
can't
see
through
and
anything
so
I'm
kind
of
neutral
on
it,
but
I
think
it's
probably
not
necessary
to
enhance
it.
It's
just
a
change
at
this
point.
F
I
I
can
make
the
findings
in
support
of
the
project,
given
the
mag
as
it's
been
discussed,
given
the
magnitude
of
the
tower
and
the
wires
and
everything,
I
think
that
I
I
tend
to
agree
with
chuck
randall
that
adding
slats
would,
you
know,
make
oh
well
here's
this
opaque
thing
now
that
you
can't
see
through,
as
opposed
to,
I
think,
the
all
the
equipment
stuff's
just
going
to
get
a
lot.
D
Chair
mccann,
if
I
could,
the
applicant
would
like
to
propose
the
removal
of
one
of
the
conditions
of
approval.
It's
not
related
to
the
cell
tower
facilities.
This
is
just
a
a
condition.
That's
the
city
tends
to
include
for
for
the
public
benefit.
However,
in
this
location,
because,
though
it's
on
city
property,
the
the
cell
tower
is
in
an
easement
owned
by
a
utility
company
and
the
condition
of
approval
that
we're
referencing
is.
A
D
And
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
have
the
applicant
request,
the
the
condition
be
removed,
and
then
we
can.
We
can
discuss
staff's
staff's
position
on
that
request.
But
if
you
wouldn't
mind
just.
F
E
F
Okay,
so
with
that,
I
will
reopen
the
public
hearing
damien.
You
are
welcome
to
speak.
J
Thank
you
guys
for
your
opening.
I
would
like
to
request
removal
of
condition
number
1.8
to
install
a
camera
on
our
facility
or
sce
structure,
as
we've
mentioned
before,
I
see
he's
very
strict
on
what
they
allow
on
their
towers.
This
being
one
of
them,
did
you
have
a
letter
from
them
essentially
stating
that
t-mobile
would
not
have
the
right
to
do
so,
and
neither
would
a
third
party
so
we'd
like
to
request
that
removal.
D
Commission,
this
condition
came
from
other
cell
towers
that
were
located
on
city
property
and
in
exchange
for
locating
a
cell
tower,
we
we
want
the
future
option
of
installing
cameras.
Should
there
be
security
concerns
in
the
general
vicinity,
and
in
this
case
they
don't
they
don't
own.
The
tower.
That's
the
sce
does,
and
so
staff
is
supportive
of
the
removal
of
it,
because
it's
not
feasible
and
we
would
not
be
able
to
staff,
would
not
be
able
to
support
making
the
findings
necessary
to
require
that
condition
to
be
included.
D
It's
it's
we're.
This
is
a
something
we
are
asking
for
in
exchange
for
the
location
of
a
new
tower,
it's
not
something
that's
required,
and
it
it
it's
it's
it's
nice.
If
we
can
get
this,
but
we
understand
that
it's
not
going
to
be
feasible
in
every
in
every
situation,
and
we
were.
We
were
just
not
aware
that
this
was
the
case
prior
to
drafting
these
conditions.
So
staff
was
supportive
of
the
removal.
F
Okay,
thank
you
I'll
close
the
public
hearing.
Thank
you
for
that
input.
So,
with
that,
I'm
open
to
emotion
on
this
issue
and
and
if
the
mover
so
deems,
they
should
consider
striking
that
condition.
1.8.
C
Okay,
let
me
do
that
I'll
make
emotionally
approved
resolution
number
pc22016,
a
resolution.
The
planning
commission
of
the
city
of
san
clemente,
california,
approving
conditional
curve
use
permit
21,
287
t-mobile
sc
the
tower
a
request
to
allow
a
new
wireless
telecommunication
facility
and
accompanying
ground
mounted
equipment
to
be
installed
on
an
existing
southern
california,
edison
utility
tower
in
the
city-owned
property
west
of
avenida,
la
pata
and
north
of
el
tamino
or
camino
del
rio,
with
the
removal
of
condition
of
approval,
1.8.
F
A
F
F
Moving
on,
we
have
another
public
hearing
for
discretionary
sign,
permit
master
and
sign
program.
Do
we
have
a
staff
report.
D
Yes,
chair,
we
do
the
staff.
Planner
is
david
carrillo.
He
is
joining
us
via
zoom.
We
do
have
a
powerpoint
for
this
as
well,
which
should
be
coming
up
on
the
screen
shortly.
I
All
right
good
evening,
chair
and
members
of
the
commission,
david
curio,
commissioner
davis,
welcome.
I
All
right,
so
the
project
is
10,
10,
santiago,
master,
sign
program,
discretionary
sign,
permit
21-289
next
slide.
I
Project
site
is
10
10,
south
el
camino,
real
within
the
mixes
3.2
zoning
district
and
the
architectural
and
affordable
housing.
Overlay
district
next
slide
some
background
here.
So
this
development
just
finished
construction.
I
believe.
Last
year
I
went
through
a
city
council
review
process
currently
has
seven
residential
units.
It's
a
mixed-use
development
with
seven
residential
units
on
the
top
floor,
along
with
office
spaces
and
then
a
gelato
shop
in
a
future.
A
restaurant
at
the
ground
level
supporting
all
these
uses
are
two
levels
of
parking
as
well
on
site
next
slide.
I
So
the
request
before
us
is
a
discretionary
signed
permit
for
for
two
reasons:
one
is
requesting
a
master
sign
program
and
then
one
is
to
exceed
25
square
feet
of
sign
area
for
your
business,
where
25
square
feet
is
the
maximum
within
the
architectural
overlay
district.
So
the
master
sign
program
consists
of
a
total
of
seven
signs.
I
So
the
design
review
subcommittee
review
the
project
two
months
ago
does
support
the
master
sign
program
with
minor
changes,
including
the
addition
of
a
color
palette
to
the
master
science
program,
adding
language
which
discourages
the
use
of
backer
boards
on
signs
where
possible
and
reducing
the
size
of
a
tenant
wall
sign
on
the
south
elevation
which
faces
avenida,
west
west
avenida.
Santiago
next
slide.
I
The
master
sign
program
contains
the
information
listed
on
the
screen.
It
is
a
document
that
that
provides
information
on
the
submittal
and
approval
process
gives
guidance
to
the
the
signed
contractor
coming
to
the
city
to
receive
the
the
administrative
approval
that's
required
after
this
discretionary
process.
There's
some
guidance
on
the
design
of
the
sign
of
each
sign.
I
There's
mention
on
the
material
on
the
the
type
of
lighting
there's
some
direction
on
the
the
size
and
location
of
signs
as
well
and
also
included.
We
have
a
list
of
signs
that
are
prohibited,
and
all
this
is
again
to
achieve
what
a
master
sign
program
is
meant
to
to
do,
which
is
to
have
a
cohesive
signage
throughout
the
entire
site.
Next
slide.
I
So,
as
part
of
the
addressing
or
responding
to
design
review
subcommittee
comments,
the
applicant's
team
did
agree
to
adding
a
color
palette,
and
we
see
that
before
us
examples
of
signage
that
would
be
allowed
on
site
are
to
the
right
of
the
color
palette,
which
would
be
aluminum
halo,
lit
signage
next
slide.
I
And
here
we
have
the
front
elevation,
so
I'm
showing
three
different
areas.
There
are
a
total
of
four
signs
and
I'll
point
them
out
on
the
far
left.
We
have
the
buona
forcetta
stein,
that's
the
first
one.
That's
a
tenant
signed
for
the
restaurant,
the
future
restaurant
in
the
center.
We
have
the
1010
santiago
sign,
that's
a
project
id
sign
and
then
on
the
far
right
within
the
circle.
There
are
two
signs:
there's
a
blaze
sign
and
a
tenant
wall
sign
for
the
gelato
shop
next
slide.
I
The
elevation
facing
santiago
we
have
two
on
the
far
right
is,
would
be
the
second
sign
for
the
future
restaurant
bona
for
cheddar,
and
then
we
have
a
hand-painted
multi-tenant
directional
site
to
the
far
left
at
the
entrance
of
the
parking
garage.
So
we
only
have
two
on
this
elevation
next
slide
and
then,
lastly,
we
have
one
parking,
directional
sign
that
would
be
hand-painted
as
well,
and
this
is
the
rear
elevation
that
faces
the
alley
next
slide.
I
So
the
second
part
of
this
request
again
is
the
request
to
exceed
25
square
feet
per
business
or
for
a
business
in
this
case
being
the
future
restaurant.
So
we
see
how
the
restaurant
has
two
business
facades,
one
facing
el
camino
real
and
the
other
facing
avenida
santiago.
I
So,
given
the
the
building's
setting,
its
mass
in
form
and
height,
staff
did
still
deems
the
the
additional
signage
over
25
square
feet
to
be
consistent
with
with
goals
within
the
architectural
rate
district
next
slide,
and
here
we
have
those
two
signs
again
identified
on
the
elevations
next
slide.
I
So
in
conclusion,
staff
has
determined
that
the
master
sign
program,
along
with
the
request
to
exceed
25
square
feet
for
the
restaurant
tenant,
has
we
do
find
that
the
master
center
program
is
in
compliance
with
the
development
standards
consistent
with
the
general
plan
policies
and
design
guidelines,
along
with
the
architectural
lake
district
goal
next
slide.
I
Therefore,
staff
recommends
that
the
planning
commission
determine
the
project
is
categorically
exempt
from
the
requirements
of
the
california
environmental
quality
act
and
approve
the
project
subject
to
conditions
of
approval,
and
I
did
receive
one
public
comment
that
I'll
read
when
it's
time
to
do
that.
I
believe
we
have
the
applicant
and
his
team
present
as
well
not
available
for
any
questions.
A
I
I
there
you
go,
let's
see,
I
believe
I
t,
can
you
go
to
the
elevation
that
reads
front
elevation
right
this
one.
A
B
Mr
chairman,
I'm
sure
I've
pushed
a
couple
questions
and
if
you
want
to
no,
can
you
keep
the
powerpoint
up
please.
So
how
does
this
work
there's
different
styles
that
are
indicated
in
the
program?
What
do
you
know
what
style
will
be
where.
I
That's
a
good
question:
we
don't
have
a
style
per
location,
it
would
be
up
to
the
the
tenant
and
the
property
owner
once
an
application
is
reviewed,
but
a
tenant
would
have
the
option
to
choose
one
of
four
sign
types
which
essentially
are
are
similar,
given
that
the
material
for
all
of
them
is
aluminum
and
we
have
the
the
color
palette
to
help
with
that
cohesiveness.
B
B
So
when
you
have,
for
example,
a
directory-
and
you
want
to
just
paint
that
on
the
wall
cool,
but
when
you
have
a
prominent
building
sign,
maybe
that
should
be
lit
now
what
I'm
hearing
is?
Well,
we
don't
know
so
I
will
be
asking
the
applicant
if
he
can
speak
to
that,
because
I
do
think
it
would
be
appropriate.
B
Second
question
I
have
is
on
the
gelato
shop.
Those
signs
are
already
installed
correct.
Are
you
aware
of
that
correct,
okay,
and
is
that
okay.
I
Yes,
that
that
is
permitted,
that
that
was
a
maximum
and
we
worked
at
the
applicant
closely
with
this,
but
that
was
the
maximum
they
could
have
done
before.
A
master
sound
program
was
required.
B
B
And
then
you
see
that
pole
that
it's
attached
to
so
I
did
a
sidewalk
that
pole.
While
it's
metal,
it's
flexing,
it
doesn't
look
like
it's
just
any
kind
of
a
design
standard
and
I'm
just
curious.
If
you're
aware
of
this
is
this
approved
it?
It
doesn't
strike
me
as
something
that
should
be
there
or
is
safe
over
time.
Wind,
kids,
whatever
it
just
looks,
jerry-rigged
on
there
temporary,
so
I
don't
know
can
do
you
know
anything
about
that
david?
Could
you
speak
to
it.
I
I
B
G
Just
just
for
my
knowledge
is
in
a
mixed
use
situation,
those
string
lights,
it
looks
like
they
can
be
just
firing
right
into
those
people
upstairs
windows
is
that,
where
they're
living
those
three
windows
up
there,
no.
I
D
And
this
is
to
do
a
number
of
things.
The
first
and
most
important
is
to
provide
consistency
of
the
signs
for
the
future
of
the
building.
D
Knowing
the
tenants
come
and
go
it's
nice
to
have
a
signed
program
that
provides
flexibility
for
future
tenants
and
and
that's
why
there's
typically,
a
number
of
styles
number
of
colors
locations
are
identified.
That's
that's
one
thing,
that's
consistent
that
the
locations
of
signs
are
identified,
but
as
far
as
what
the
exact
sign
looks
like
these
typically
have
flexibility.
D
Part
of
that
flexibility
is
would
be
to
fall
under
the
category
of
first
amendment
rights,
and
that
would
be
that
would
be
related
to
the
freedom
of
speech
and
that's
the
content
of
science
that
can
translate
into
trademarked
trademark
signs
or
or
fonts
that
that
companies
use.
We
cannot
stop
company
from
from
utilizing
a
particular
font,
especially
if
it's,
if
it's
trademarked.
D
Furthermore,
if
there
is
a
concern
about
the
style
of
the
of
the
of
the
the
sign
that
that
may
get
into
issues
of
of
content-based
regulation,
which
is
not
something
that
the
city
has
the
authority
to
do
for
staff,
these
master
sign
programs
are
really
nice,
because
we
can
quickly
process
the
changing
signs
for
future
tenants.
D
There
may
be
some
considerations
where,
where
we
want
to
look
at
specific
signs
a
little
differently
in
a
master
sign
program,
but
it
cut
it
can
cut
down
on
the
especially
the
architectural
overlay,
the
number
of
times
that
we
need
to
process
a
discretionary
application
for
for
a
building
that
that
has
already
you
know,
had
had
signs.
C
You
know,
I
think
it's
a
good
thing.
Is
there
a
reason
why
we
didn't
look
at
this
at
design
review
subcommittee?
Because
I
don't
remember
getting
this,
we
don't
look
at
these
yeah.
We
did.
We.
C
I
wasn't
there
that
way:
yeah
my
apologies,
so
there's
going
to
be
up
to
seven
signs,
10
cents.
Is
that
what
we.
I
The
the
the
size
and
location
have
and
that's
the
purpose
of
the
master
science
program,
but
as
far
as
which
signs
actually
for
this.
In
this
example,
the
applicant
decided
to
use
as
part
of
their
master
stamp
program
the
signs
that
they
actually
will
be
proposing
immediately
after
this
permit
becomes
a
valid.
So
what
you
see
within
the
elevations
is
what
they
would
be
proposing
as
soon
as
they
can
at
the
administrative
level.
C
I
Correct
and-
and
they
will
be
any
future
sign,
is
what
will
be
limited
to
the
sign
parameters
being
presented
within
the
master
center
program.
D
D
This
master
sign
program
as
it's
currently
proposed
covers
the
new
businesses
sign,
so
it
runs
with
yes,
but
they're
limited
in
terms
of
the
types
of
signs
and
the
locations
and
the
colors,
and
all
of
that
that's
what
the
master
sign
program
does.
It
gives
staff
a
document
that
says
that
anything
that
that
meets
the
standards
in
this
program
you
know
and
work
will
can
be
approved.
Administratively,
that's.
F
Thank
you
any
other
questions
for
staff.
I
have
a
couple,
I'm
I
in
the
staff
report.
It
says
that
the
applicant
did
make
the
changes
from
the
designer
subcommittee.
I
just
wanted
to
see,
did
the
did
the
exhibits
get
changed
or
did
we
just
kind
of
did
they
do
that,
like
administratively
agree
to
okay,
we'll
shrink
the
size
of
that
one
and
stuff
like
that.
I
They
they
did.
The
elevation
that
faces
santiago
was
updated
to
reflect
the
request
from
the
rsc.
F
Okay
and
and
just-
and
this
is
probably
more
for
commissioner
crandall,
but
I
know
we
talked
about
backer
boards
at
designer
view
subcommittee
and
it
was
talked
about
well.
If
we
have
them,
then
it's
you
know
it's
easier
and
if
signs
change,
then
there's
not
a
lot
of
stucco
damage,
it's
hard
to
match
and
repair.
So
we
did
we
settle
on
avoid
backer
boards.
We.
C
Didn't
say
avoid
we
said
at
avoid,
if
possible,
there's
certain
options
besides
backboard
channel
and
all
that
allow.
C
Signs
to
be
changed
without
violating
the
spanish
colony
revival
stucco,
so
it
was
put
in
there
and
I
think
in
the
text
it
says
avoid
where
possible.
Okay,
we
were
certainly
aware
of
it
and
he
said
they'd
prefer,
if
they
didn't
have
to
do
it.
But
they've
got
a
nice
building
here
and
we
didn't
want
to.
I
F
F
Okay,
so
you're
available
for
questions.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
of
the
applicant.
A
F
Okay,
vice
chair
cosmopolitan
question:
if
you
could
just
please
state
your
name,
my
name.
K
B
A
B
K
B
It's
a
great
it's
a
great
project.
It's
a
wonderful
building.
The
mixed
use
is
well
done
and
I
think
the
sign
program
proposed
is
very
classic
and
very
nice.
My
question
is
specifically:
do
you
have
an
idea
what's
going
to
go
where
could
you
walk
us
through
that?
If
we
bring
the
picture
back
up,
could
you
say
this
one's
going
to
get
the
reverse
channel
this
one's
going
to
get
hand
painted?
Is
that
possible
for
you
to
walk
us
through
that,
of
course
cool?
Could
we
get
the
picture
back
up
or
the
slide
back
up.
K
Commissioner
cosgrove,
if
you
take
a
look
at
the
the
building
elevation
as
it
stands
right
now
pretty
much
all
the
signs
that
as
proposed,
are
what
we
get
we
intend
to
install
so,
on
the
right
hand,
side
also
on
the
northernmost
portion
of
the
property
where
lucky
dog
gelato
is
those
those
actual
signs
have
been.
You
know
were
submitted,
approved
and
installed.
K
Right
so
the
other
two
are
laser-cut
aluminum
letters
that
are
going
to
be
painted
black
powder-coated
and
adhered
to
the
wall.
That's
and
they're
gonna
look
exactly
like
they
look
there,
then
the
one
around
the
side
is
gonna,
be
painted
black
and
painted
onto
the
wall.
B
K
So
I
hired
a
graphic
designer
to
come
up
with
something
to
make
the
building
look
a
little
bit
more
interesting.
That
particular
logo
is
the
logo
that
we
from
a
marketing
perspective
came
up
with,
for
the
building.
The
building's
address
is
1010
south
el
camino
real
we've
always
liked
that
the
the
property's
name
is
1010
santiago.
K
B
Think
it
looks
great
my
question:
is
the
choice
not
to
illuminate
it,
since
it
is
an
address
and
it's
a
prominent
sign,
identifying
your
building,
but
at
night
it'll
be
dark
when
in
fact,
you're
being
permitted
to
do
the
reverse,
the
halo
illumination.
I'm
just
curious.
Why
you
didn't
choose
to
eliminate
it.
K
It's
a
good
question.
I
think
we
just
don't
want
to
over
emphasize
it.
You
know,
I
think
sometimes
less
is
more.
There
is
a
fair
amount
of
ambient
light
in
the
area
because
you
do
have
some
street
lights
and
there
is,
there
is
lighting
on
the
wall.
If
you
take
a
look
at
that
elevation,
if
you
look
on
either
side
of
the
door,
there
are
black
light
fixtures.
So,
even
though
we're
not
initially
uplighting
it
specifically,
I'm
just
conscious
of
the
fact
that
I
don't
want
to
wash
the
walls
too
much
with
light.
K
K
Okay,
we
can
go
on
to
the
next
ones,
but
these
were
the
main
ones.
You
know
the
wonderful
ketter
is
obviously
a
fairly
long
sign.
Then
we
felt
that
the
signage
was
appropriate
based
on
the
height
that
is
up
there
and
the
proportion
no
one
seems
to
have
talked
about
that
too
much.
But
it's
you
know
we
designed
that
retail
space
so
that
we
could
have
cut
it
up
into
multiple
spaces
if
needed,
and
so,
if
we
had
done
that,
you
would
have
had
two
separate
signs.
K
B
K
Then
the
next
one
around
the
side
is
going
to
be
hand
painted
on
that's
the
bonofucker
logo.
There
is
lighting
in
the
vicinity,
so
there
will
be
some
lighting
there.
You
know
that's
just
going
to
be
hand
painted
black
paint
on
a
white
integral
stucco.
K
The
one
to
the
left
of
the
parking
garage
is
actually
something
that
was
required
by
the
city
council.
When
we
did
the
shared
use
parking
agreement
on
this
project,
it
was
appealed
from
from
planning
commission
to
the
city
council.
We
spent
a
bit
of
time
talking
about
that
and
one
of
the
things
one
of
the
city
council
members
specifically
requested
is
that
we
put
way
finding
signage
on
the
building,
so
that
people
knew
that
they
would
be
able
to
park.
K
B
K
Yeah
yeah
to
be
clear:
it's
not
public
parking,
that's
parking
available
for
the
patrons
so
but
yeah,
that's
so
that's
what
it
will
say:
yeah
and
then
the
signage
around
the
side
on
the
next
slide.
On
the
left-hand
side,
there's
a
sign,
saying
resident
parking
only
and
then
there's
a
small
little
mural,
which
is
not
shown
on
here,
but
that
goes
on
the
inside
of
the
parking
now
yeah.
B
I
think
that'll
look
fantastic,
yeah,
okay
and
then
will
you
entertain
me
with
the
lights
that
I
mentioned
before
your
thoughts
on
that.
K
You
mean
uplighting
those
science
signs
nope,
I
apologize
so
those
were
initially
we
put
those
up
as
holiday
decorations.
We
put
lights
up
there
and
around
the
side,
to
my
knowledge,
they're,
not
there's
no
permit
required
for,
for
you
know
temporary
lighting
like
that
everyone's
really
liked
them,
and
so
we
left
them
there
that
steel
pole
is
surprisingly
secure.
It
doesn't
move
much
in
in
any
wind.
It's
a
that's
an
electrical
box
channel.
We
can
take
them
down.
You
know
everyone's
just
really
like
them.
The
building
looks
pretty
nice
with
them.
No.
B
I
have
no
problem
with
the
presence.
It's
the
implementation
of
that
rod.
It
you
know
kids
whiz
by
on
their
e-bikes.
They
grab
that
thing
it's
down.
I
would
I
would
just
have
you
do
I
would
just
have
you.
Do
it
in
a
much
more
secure
professional
way
into
the
ground,
maybe
not
on
the
outside,
maybe
on
the
inside.
Something,
like
you
know
that
that
just
looks
not.
B
B
I
am
a
little
disappointed
that
you
don't
want
to
do
the
the
halo
elimination,
but
it
it.
You
know
I
get
it.
So.
Thank
thanks
for
answering
my
questions
right.
Thank
you.
Any.
A
I
C
C
I
actually
agree
with
commissioner
cosgrove
that
the
tivoli
lights
or
whatever
that
are
just
kind
of
mounted
on
the
corner.
There
are
real
eyesore.
I
think
that,
especially
at
night,
that's
a
glare
field
right
there
on
that
corner.
I
don't
know
who
likes
it,
but
if
it's
not
permanently
approved,
I
think
that
we
should,
I
don't
think
we
can
condition
the
removal.
D
An
important
thing
where's
that
first
problem
talking
about
are
we
talking
about
the
cafe
lights?
Yeah,
that's
not
part
of
the
request,
and
I
don't
really
see
a
nexus
here
right.
Okay,
if,
if,
however,
in
the
discussion
from
the
commission,
I
I
is
the
head
of
code
enforcement,
we'll
make
contact
with
the
applicant
and
then
we
will
work
with
him
to
find
a
way
to
get
perfect.
What
he's
looking
for
and
make
sure
that
everything's
important.
C
Okay,
with
the
one
above
the
arched
opening
there
in
the
corner.
C
C
So
if
you're
driving
up
the
street
you're
gonna
see
both
of
those
signs
at
the
same
time,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
the
sign
above
the
triple
opening
on
el
camino
real
is
the
one
that
you're
gonna
you're
gonna
be
drawn
to
mostly
so
you
know,
I
think
it's
okay
to
have
a
sign
on
the
side,
but
that
particular
sign
on
the
side.
Elevation
and
the
size
of
it
is
disproportionate.
I
think
to
that
wall.
There.
C
It's
just
too
big.
It
doesn't
need
for
one
thing:
you're
going
to
see
a
really
nice
large
sign
above
the
triple
arch
and
that
one
to
me
it's
squeezed
in
there's,
not
enough
wall
space
around
it.
I
think
you
know
I
could
go
along
with
a
circular
sign
like
that,
because
I
guess
it
works
with
the
radius
on
that
opening.
But
it's
I
just.
C
Big,
it's
disproportion
on
that
corner,
but
I
don't
see
that
there's
a
real
need,
it'd,
be
one
thing
if
you
couldn't
see
that
sign
in
front,
but
you
can
see
both
of
them
as
you're
driving
down
the
street.
So
I'm
again
again,
I'm
not
opposed
to
having
it.
But
it's
it's
it's
not
it's
not
proportionate
to
that.
F
Yeah,
can
I
interrupt
on
that?
That's
a
great
point
and
we
had
that
discussion
in
designing
your
subcommittee,
and
it
looks
to
me
like
that's
why
I
asked
where
these
things
changed
from
the
from
the
prior
submittal,
because
commissioner
crandall
really
honed
in
on
that.
If
you
look
at
sheet
15,
as
opposed
to
the
graphic
that
they've
been
showing,
it
looks
a
little
smaller.
B
C
I
think
what
worked
with
it
is
it's
not
a
solid
sign
and
there
was
that
circle.
You
see
there
is
just
the
letters
and
then
there's
small
logo
in
the
middle,
so
it
doesn't
read
like
a
full
sign,
because
the
back
is
building
color
background
is
the
building
color,
because
it's
painted
on-
and
I
think
page
15
does
show
that
it
was
reduced
and
we
did
hone
in
on
it.
And
when
you
look
at
that
wall
without
it,
it
does
look
pretty
plain.
C
That
adds
a
little
interest
and
it
does
relate
to
the
arches
below
and
so
at
design
review.
We
gave
him
the
recommendation
to
just
reduce
the
size
down
a
little
bit
and
at
that
meeting
we
were
comfortable.
F
B
F
C
But
if,
if
we
allow
the
increase
in
square
footage,
then
that
runs
with
the
building
right.
So
if
this
changes,
then
staff
has
the
discretion
to
approve
a
different
sign
that
still
exceeds
the
allowable
square
footage.
So
that's
a
concern
because
I
I
think
you
know
you
guys-
may
not
agree
with
me,
but
I
think
it's
too
big
proportionally
I
I
I
actually
don't
mind
that
the
wall
area
on
the
above
the
those
arched
openings,
especially
since
we've
got
that
balcony
with
the
open
guard
rail
up
above
it
david.
F
David,
could
you
weigh
in
on
on
pro
tem
camp's
comment
about
the
size
of
that
particular
sign.
I
I
F
I
Yes,
commissioner,
I
will
say
that
at
the
design
review
subcommittee-
as
mentioned
already-
that
is
some-
this
sign
was
brought
up
by
staff
and
actually
there
was
a
recommendation
to
to
reduce
the
the
size
that
was
initially
proposed
to
get
more
cushion
at
the
top
of
the
sign
and
at
the
bottom
of
the
sign
drc
agreed,
and
we
made
that
request
at
the
meeting
and
the
applicant
did
reduce
it.
I
Staff
didn't
feel
it
was.
It
was
sufficient.
One
of
the
one
of
the
elements
that
comes
with
spanish,
culinary
viable
architecture
is
the
stucco
mass
and
we
do
have
a
design
guideline
that
talks
about
stucco
masks
being
the
dominant
feature.
I
I
think
we
we
still
achieve
that
on
that
facade
it
doesn't,
it
still
remains
dominant.
The
stucco
still
remains
a
dominant
feature
on
the
south
facing
facade,
so
a
potential
solution
is
maybe
going
from
a
a
round
sign
to
maybe
something
that's
more
horizontal
and
that
can
probably
alleviate
some
some
visual
noise
at
the
top
and
bottom.
I
That'll
that'll
be
my
potential
solution
going
from
a
round
sign
to
a
more
horizontally
oriented
sign.
B
A
I
The
sign
program
is
specifying
the
location,
so
the
the
signs
that
we
see
on
the
elevation
patients
that
we
see
on
the
elevations
are
the
locations
that
any
future
tenant
would
be
subject
to
we're
limited
to.
B
Just
wondering
as
an
option
would
it
make
sense
to
be
everybody
here
if
we
hit
the
sign
we're
centered
under
the
between
those
two
arches
there's
a
little
bit
more
space
there
and
in
in
the
event
that
it's
a
future
tenant
and
that
that
they
bifurcate
the
space
it
would
allow
for
them
to
have
their
own.
B
You
know
and
identification
there,
and
I'm
wondering
too,
are
those
drain.
Is
that
drainage?
That's
on
the
coming
through
the
wall
there
numbers
what's.
B
C
I
C
And
it
is,
you
know,
that's
typically
the
when
you
get
two
sides
to
a
building
on
two
different
streets:
they
aren't
fighting
each
other
they're
still
on
the
main
wall
they
comply
and
putting
on
the
side
street.
C
C
C
C
Obviously
steve
and
I
have
a
different
aesthetic
outlook
at
it
and
that's
fine
we're
always
that's
why
we
try
not
to
design
the
neuse
at
the
commission
level
because
it's
hard
to
get
everybody
to
feel
the
same
way,
but
I
will
say
that,
after
reviewing
it
and
looking
at
it-
and
this
applicant
has
done
to
make
this
building
what
it
is
today,
I
can
support
what
we're
seeing
with
the
application.
A
Looking
at
this,
and
also
appreciating
the
design
review,
it
is
on
the
corner,
the
rounded
corner,
I'm
comfortable
with
the
location,
it's
a
beautiful
building
and
I
think
the
signs
will
benefit
the
building
that
the
design
I
can
go
through
each
one
of
these
a
b
c
d.
I
mean
it
is
the
size.
I
I
think
it's
to
scale
the
building
the
design
looks
like
it
will
be
very
professional
and
the
the
large
one
that
goes
over.
A
The
three
arched
windows,
I
think,
will
look
very
nice
and
I'm
very
comfortable
with
the
one
on
the
corner,
because
it
is
on
the
corner.
It
is
the
joining
of
the
two
streets,
so
you're
going
to
see
it
coming
down
the
street
and
you're
going
to
see
it
as
you
turn,
so
I'm
very
comfortable
with
that.
It
looks
very
nice.
The
building
itself
is
beautiful.
D
D
A
D
There
are
some
very,
very
minor
modifications
that
can
be
made
to
previously
approved
applications
that
can
be
done
so
administratively
through
a
city,
planner
determination,
adding
lighting
onto
a
building
that
has
gone
through
a
master
sign
program
review
is
not
probably
not
something,
I'm
going
to
be
entirely
comfortable
approving
administratively,
but
there
is.
There
is
a
process
it
could.
It
could
be
a
change
that
would
could
be
reviewed
by
the
zoning
administrator
rather
than
the
planning
commission.
D
F
D
G
Okay,
so
in
two
years,
if
he
wants
to
illuminate
a
non-illuminated
sign,
it's
still
approved
because
that's
what's
being
approved
today.
Is
that
correct.
D
What's
up
what's
being
approved
today
or
what
is
being
reviewed
for
essential
approval
today
is
the
master
sign
programs
allowances
as
proposed.
So
if
there
is
a
sign,
the
1010
santiago
project,
description,
sign,
we'll
call
it.
If
that
one
is
not
shown
as
illuminated
in
the
master
sign
program,
then
it's
that
would
be
an
addition.
That
would
not
be
something
that's
covered.
G
Okay,
one
more
one
more
thought
is:
is
I
get
why
a
restaurant
would
want
to
have
this
type
of
signage,
the
big
oval
that's
out
in
front
of
those
three
arches,
but
just
planning
your
future
down
the
line,
wonder
if
the
restaurant
vacates
at
and
it
becomes
a
state
farm
building?
Do
we
want
the
state
farm
building?
G
If,
if
say
a
restaurant
or
the
type
of
business
vacates
that
property?
Do
we
want
that
applicant
to
reapply
for
the
new
type
of
tenant,
because
I'm
I
I
mean
I
I
get
why
the
exception
is
being
requested
for
a
restaurant,
but
you
know
I'm
new
to
the
game,
but
I'm
just
throwing
it
out.
There
see
what
you
guys
think
about
that.
A
C
It
has
no
bearing
on
our
decision.
It's
just
the
space
and
size,
regardless
of
who
the
tenant
is.
We've
got
to
be
real,
careful
about
not
getting
into.
A
F
Okay,
any
other
discussion
points
I
did
see
the
applicant
indicated
he
might
want
to
speak
to
again.
Do
you
want
to
and
if
so
I'll,
reopen
the
public
hearing.
E
K
K
I
just
for
for
adam's
and
my
benefit.
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
something.
I
think
you
did
a
really
good
job
and
I'm
never
going
to
speak
against
adam
about
how
I
explain
certain
things.
But
what
are
we
doing
tonight
is
this
is
a
discretionary
hearing
to
to
lay
out
the
criteria
for
which
staff
can
administratively
and
administratively
approve
things.
So,
commissioner
davis,
when
you
mentioned
a
little
bit
earlier,
the
lighting
and
what
have
you?
K
Yes,
we
can
come
and
install
that
later
on,
but
the
apple
and
applicant
can't
do
it
on
our
own
unilaterally.
We
need
to
come
back
and
work
with
staff
and
staff
would
need
to
determine
in
their
opinion
whether
that
was
consistent
with
the
intent
and
the
guidelines
laid
out
in
the
signage
program.
I
just
thought
it
was
important
to
lay
that
that
that
out,
because
we
can't
just
unilaterally
out
there
go
and
change
it
to
a
state
farm
sign
or
anything
like
that.
The
other
thing
is
also.
K
K
If
you
actually
look
at
the
sign
program
itself,
it's
black
and
it's
it's
a
lot
smaller
than
than
than
appears
in
that
graphic,
and
I
think
the
other
thing
that's
important
to
mention
is
when
you're
looking
at
signs
and
things
like
that,
you
got
to
look
at
proportions
in
the
area
from
which
someone's
looking
at
something.
So,
if
you're
driving
down
the
road
you're
looking
at
a
sign
on
a
building
that
is
maybe
50
feet
away.
K
If
you
squash
a
sign
like
if
it's
a
logo
or
something
like
that-
and
it's
got
little
intricate
details
in
it.
Sometimes
it
makes
it
to
a
point
where
it's
no
longer
worth
having
that
sign
anymore,
because
those
details
and
the
words
on
the
sign
are
just
no
longer
legible
to
the
human
eye.
So
I
just
at
least
you
know,
I
hope
was
hoping
you'd
consider
that
at
least
you
know
as
you
as
you
look
at
this.
That's
all
I
wanted
to
say
thank
you.
F
Thank
you
again
I'll
reclose,
the
public
hearing,
which
seems
to
be
my
new
mantra
from
a
discussion
point
of
view.
I'd
like
to
give
my
thoughts,
I
think
the
applicant's
done
a
exceptional
job
with
the
building
primarily
and
with
the
sign
program
as
well,
and
I
think
the
sign
program.
F
You
know
we
we,
you
know,
beat
it
up
in
design
review
subcommittee
and
I
think
it's
appropriate
and
scale
and
design
for
the
building
and
I'm
fully
supportive
of
this
master
sign
program.
As
designed
and
with
that,
I'm
open
to
any
motions
or
further
discussion.
C
A
D
Yes,
just
for
clarification,
staff
recommends
two
things.
First,
is
that
a
determination
about
seek
will
be
made,
and
the
second
is
the
adoption
or
approval
of
a
resolution.
Okay,
technically
the
sequel
finding
needs
to
be
made
before.
A
Sorry
I
wasn't
prepared,
I
was
taking
notes.
Okay,
let's
start
from
the
beginning,
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
to
approve
the
discretionary
sign,
permit,
21-289-1010,
santiago
master
sign
program
and
the
request
is
to
consider
the
master
sign
program
for
mixed-use
development
located
on
1010
south
el
camino
real,
and
to
allow
more
than
25
feet
of
the
sign
area
for
the
business
within
the
architectural
overlay.
A
Recommendation
by
staff
to
determine
the
project
is
categorically
exempt
from
the
requirements
of
sql
present
to
sql
guidelines,
section
15301
class
1,
existing
facilities,
15311
class
11
accessory
structures,
an
adopted
resolution
of
pc2015
approving
discretionary
sign
permit,
which
is
21
289
at
10,
10
cents.
You
have
a
master
sign
program.
F
A
C
C
F
New
business,
we
have
no
new
business
old
business.
We
have
no
old
business
reports
of
commissioners
and
staff.
F
Do
we
know
if
we
have
a
planning
commission
on
the
17th?
Do
we
have
anything
for
the
agenda.
D
For
17th,
I
I
believe
not
yeah,
we
don't.
We
don't
have
any
public
hearings
because
we
haven't,
you
know
there
have
been
any
notices
and
we
don't
have
any.
We
don't
have
a
study
session.
D
D
Okay,
yeah?
We
we
don't
have
anything
on
the
tfa.
I
I
would
in
case
there
is
a
new
business
item
or
something
that
might
be
added
that
doesn't
require
public
hearing,
I'd
like
to
keep
it
available.
So
most
likely
there
will
not
be.
D
Yeah
that
would
be,
that
would
be
our
preference
there.
Now
there
are
there's
a
joint
council
commission
committee.
D
I
would
be
okay,
if
the
kim,
if
the
council,
sorry,
the
commission
would
like
to
adjourn
to
the
august
30th
joint
meeting,
I
can
find
we
can
find
the
language
for
that
right,
very
good
yeah.
We
can
find
the
language
for
that
and
should
something
come
up.
We
can
always
notice
a
special
meeting
in
between,
but
since
we're
considering
potentially
two
more
meetings
this
month,
yeah,
it
might
be
nice
to
to
lay
off
the
17th.
D
C
D
It's
going
to
be
yeah,
it's
going
to
be
that.
Let
me
see
the.
B
D
Okay,
I
will
I'll
read
the
official
time
and
location
and
you
can
just
incorporate
that
into
any
motion
for
adjournment
all
right.
F
Do
that
kind
of?
Can
I
ask
one
question?
I
don't
know
if
we,
I
don't
think
we
need
to
agendize
this,
but
we
always
seem
to
have
some
confusion
about
what
to
read
specifically
relative
to
motions
for
of
approval.
F
Can
you
guys
and
maybe
you're
already
doing
it
you've
got
recommendation
and
it's
been
our
practice
to
read
the
whole
intro
to
the
resolution?
I'm
not.
I
don't
know
if
that's
necessary
or
not
or
can
can
we
just
have
it
in
the
staff
report,
as
a
recommendation
of
proposed
proposed,
you
know
language
so
that
we
all
collectively
know
where
to
look
for
it
and
what
to.
D
D
You
mentioned
that
sarah-
and
I
were
discussing
this
tonight
because
this
is
this-
is
I've
seen
this
a
number
of
times?
What
I
would
like
to
do
is
add
staff's
recommendation
to
the
agendas.
C
D
Okay,
putting
it
in
the
agenda
great
if
there's
additional
ways
that
you
would
like
us
to
clarify
what
those
recommendations
are,
I'm
more
than
happy
to
look
into
that.
D
In
I
wouldn't
I
I
don't
know
that
I
want
to
put
it
more
towards
the
front,
but
maybe
as
an
executive,
summary
kind
of
for
the
on
the
staff
report.
So
it's
on
on
on
page
one,
so
you
know
kind
of
where,
where
it's
leading
I'd
I'd
be
happy
to
look
into
doing
that
as
well.
That'd.
F
Be
great
and-
and
I
don't
need
an
answer
right
now,
but
you
know
I'm
looking
at
this
recommendation
of
this
last
item.
You
had
item
one
was
a
sequel
recommendation
item
two
was
a
succinct
recommendation
relative
to
the
sign
program
as
opposed
to
the
six
or
seven
line
intro
at
the
top
of
the
resolution.
So
if
we
don't
have
to
do
the
full
resolution
heading,
let's
keep
it
succinct
but
I'll.
Let
you
guys
figure
that
out
and
tell
us
what
to
do.
D
Yeah
we
will
provide
a
the
what
needs
to
be
read
into
the
record
perfect.
That's.
F
A
C
Okay,
I
believe
we
adjourn
to
the
august
30th
2022
joint
council
commission
meeting
at
wedgwood
golf
course
clubhouse
at
6
p.m.