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From YouTube: Planning Commission Meeting - November 16, 2022
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B
Do
not
she's
absent.
She
is
absent,
chair
Pro,
tem
Camp
here
Vice,
chair
Cosgrove,
here,
chairman
McCann,
sure.
A
Thank
you.
Our
first
and
only
item
of
business
is
to
review
the
city's
traffic
calling
policy
and
speed
up
policies.
I
assume
we
have
a
staff
report
on
that
presentation.
D
So
good
evening,
planning
Commissioners
chair,
McCann,
I'm,
Zach
ponson,
your
assistant
city,
engineer
tonight
we're
going
to
do
a
study
session
regarding
our
traffic
calming
policy
and
our
speed
cushion
policy
last
time.
This
was
done
for
Planning
Commission
appears
to
have
been
back
in
2015
..
Obviously
not
all
of
you
guys
were
on
that,
and
so
we
do
have
a
couple
agendas
coming
towards
the
Planning
Commission
in
the
next
couple
agendas.
D
So
we
thought
it
would
be
a
good
opportunity
to
at
least
show
you
what
our
policy
is
about
kind
of
open
it
up
to
you
guys
so
at
any
time
tonight,
if
you
have
questions,
don't
be
afraid
to
stop
me
I'm
here
to
kind
of
help,
you
guys
learn
as
much
as
you
can
in
the
policy.
There's
a
lot
of
information.
We
included
in
your
packet.
The
traffic
calming
policy
I
believe,
is
what
47
48
pages
I'm
going
to
try
to
simplify
it.
D
For
you,
you
have
a
copy
to
take
home,
and
you
know
studies
at
your
desires
right.
So
you
know
with
that.
We
like
I,
said.
Stop
me.
If
I,
if
you
have
any
questions,
this
is
a
learning
you
know
opportunity
for
yourself
and
or
if
there's
things
that
you
see
or
have
ideas
about
potential
changes.
D
That
is
something
that
we're
also
potentially
up
for
is
updating
this
policy.
If
we
have
to
right
now
the
the
speed
cushion
policy
is
separate
from
the
the
traffic
calming
policy,
it
seems
like
it
should
probably
be
combined
into
one
bigger
policy.
If
we
ever
do
an
update,
so
we're
not
expecting
any
recommendations,
we'll
just
kind
of
take
notes
of
anything
you
guys
say
and
and
for
future
consideration
and
try
to
answer
your
questions.
If
you
have
any
so
with
that,
I
have
a
little
slideshow
I
gave
you
guys
a
copy
just
in
case.
D
All
right,
and
so
with
me
tonight,
I
do
have
Ryan
Kim
our
senior
traffic
engineer,
who's
relatively
new
to
the
city,
but
comes
to
us
with
a
lot
of
experience,
which
is
very
beneficial
for
us.
If,
even
after
tonight,
you
guys
have
any
questions,
don't
be
afraid
to
contact
staff.
Let
us
know
about
things
that
you
may
have
questions
on
in
the
future.
D
So
with
that,
we
we'll
start
our
little
session
here.
Some
of
the
things
we'll
be
doing
tonight
is
going
over
our
traffic
common
policy
and
the
process
after
that
I'll
kind
of
go
through
some
of
those
tools
that
we
have
in
our
toolbox.
D
After
that,
I
got
some
a
couple
examples
of
City
projects
that
we've
done
for
traffic,
calming
some
slides
to
show
you
on
that
and
like
I
said
at
any
time.
If
you
have
any
questions,
just
let
me
know
and
we'll
go
from
that.
I
meant
for
this
to
be
kind
of
an
open
forum
and
freestyle.
If
it
helps
you
know,
just
educate
you
guys
as
much
as
possible.
D
So
some
of
the
things
traffic
calming
is
not
it's
not
closing
down
streets.
It's
not
partial
closures.
It's
not
eliminating
turn
pockets
and
turn
at
intersections.
It's
not
creating
one-way
streets.
Those
are
all
things
that
are
done
off:
traffic
studies
and
traffic
demands,
and
and
only
done
when
needed,
not
for
comping
purposes.
Some
some
of
the
things
that
staffed,
often
hears-
and
maybe
you
will
from
citizens
too,
is
just
putting
in
stop
signs,
that'll,
slow
people
down
or
traffic
signal
or
a
crosswalk.
Those
are
all
things
that
technically
in
the
industry.
D
We
don't
like
to
be
seen
as
traffic
calming
devices
they're.
Simply
those
are
stop.
Signs
are
warranted.
You
know
when
there's
enough
cross
traffic
that
prohibits
people
from
trying
to
safely
get
out
of
an
intersection
not
to
slow
people
down
to
just
and
because
people
think
there
might
be
speeding
in
a
neighborhood,
and
so
that's
something
that's
very
common
and
people
will
come
in
and
request.
D
I'll,
let
Ryan
fix
it
if
I,
if
I,
if
I
mess
this
up
but
we're
doing
a
study
and
there's
industry
standards
and
when
something
might
trigger,
you
have
to
have
a
certain
amount
of
daily
vehicle
trips
at
each
each
Direction
and
so
I'll.
Let
him
fix
it
if
it's
not
if
I'm
not
saying
this
right,
but
you
do
that
study
and
it
has
to
meet
those
minimum
criteria
before
Engineers
like
ourselves,
will
recommend
them
for
approval.
D
What
we
don't
like
to
do
is
put
something
in
that's,
not
warranted,
or
does
it
meet
the
study
because
sometimes
that'll
put
us
at
a
liability
risk
crosswalks,
for
example,
communities
may
have
put
them
in
a
lot
in
the
older
days.
Just
because
now,
if
they're,
not
if
they're
put
in
when
they're
unwarranted
I
was
taught
the
term,
it
leads
to
a
false
sense
of
security,
and
so
people
get
into
a
crosswalk,
especially
nowadays.
D
First
thing
they're
doing
is
looking
at
their
phone
and
they
think
they
have
the
right
away
instead
of
looking
for
that
car
or
that
speeding,
e-bike
or
something
else,
and
so
that
false
sense
of
security
is
not
something
you
want
to
create
on
something
that
wasn't
warranted,
and
so
you'll
often
get
that
request,
though,
or
staff
does
quite
often
of
these.
These
three
main
things
of
crosswalks
stop
signs
and
traffic
signals,
and
so
we
hear
that
a
lot,
and
so
it
is
not
a
form
of
traffic
calming
it's.
D
D
You
know,
there's
some
potential
needs
for
updates
with
something
that
old,
it's
always
good.
To
keep
things
up
to
date,
traffic
calmings
hasn't
really
seen
a
revolution
of
new
ideas,
though
the
list
of
things
in
the
toolbox
is,
you
know,
still
relatively
the
same,
especially
for
what
we're
going
to
propose
on
most
our
local
streets.
D
D
A
group
of
citizens
will
form
a
petition
or
they'll
contact
staff,
and
we
say
if
you're
serious
about
this,
please
join
with
your
neighbors
and
that
person
who
initially
initiates
that
contact
is
usually
the
block
leader
and
so
that
block
leader
will
go
around
and
get
petitions
from
the
people
on
their
block
and
when
they
get
those
petitions
together,
they'll
turn
them
into
staff,
and
we
will
analyze
that
street
we
go
out.
We
put
in
the
the
speed
surveys,
the
traffic
counts
and
so
a
sheet
later
on.
D
All
the
next
sheet
is
actually
the
evaluation
study
sheet
and
we'll
go
into
what
those
numbers
are
that
we're
looking
for,
but
we'll
go
out
and
we'll
look
at
those
numbers
once
we
the
first
step
we
do
and
this
kind
of
popped
up
on
the
cayefaro
project
that
we
brought
to
you
a
couple
weeks
ago.
D
We
do
that
study
to
see
if
it
even
warrants
any
kind
of
traffic
calming
measures,
and
so,
if
they
don't
hit
that
score
of
51
points,
then
technically
they're
not
meeting
that
trigger
of
needing
traffic
calming
devices,
and
so
at
that
point
we'll
usually
notify
the
applicant
hey.
We've
done
the
study,
your
numbers
weren't
high
enough,
not
enough
people
were
speeding
or
your
street
is.
You
know,
has
different
characteristics
that
didn't
warrant
that
that
analysis
now.
D
So
the
radar
truck
that
you're
seeing
and
it's
an
interesting
point
and
I'll
kind
of
defer
to
Ryan.
If
there's
when
I
heard
that
last
night,
I
kind
of
made
a
note
to
myself
too,
of
what
other
devices
do
we
have
and
if
there
are
other
tools
in
the
industry
that
we
need
to
you
know
obtain.
Maybe
that
is
especially
when
Council
directs
it.
F
Yes,
we
have
about
two
different
kinds
of
speed
counts.
One
is
like
a
trailer
yesterday,
the
mayor
mentioned
it
yeah,
it
might
affect
the
driver's
speed,
but
we
have
another
tool
which
is
radar,
speed
kits
with
a
hidden
or
mounted
on
the
shade
lights,
though
no
regular
people
who
have
noticed
so
we'll
get
the
typical
type
typical
speeds
through
that
which.
F
D
You
know
within
the
next
few
weeks
after
that,
if,
if
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
high
numbers
and
so
certain
communities
what
you
know
I'll
get
on
this-
the
next
slide,
but
one
of
the
next
first
things
we
do
is
call
the
police
and
say:
can
you
increase
your
presence
in
the
area,
we're
getting
a
lot
of
complaints
and
then,
if
our
radar
data
starts
showing
huge
numbers,
we
can
show
that
to
our
ocsd
and
show
them
that
we're
getting
some
really
high
numbers,
if
that's
the
case
or
in
quantity
or
in
speed,
and
so
you
had
to
answer
your
question.
G
D
There
isn't
anything
formalized
for
this
and
this
having
come
into
this
role,
I've
been
with
the
city
I've
grown
up
here,
I've
been
here
my
whole
life
having
come
into
this
role
as
a
traffic
manager.
Now
that
is
something
that
kind
of
took
me
by
a
little
bit
of
surprise
too.
There
is
no
application.
D
There
is
no
fee,
there's
really
and
there's
a
wide
range
of
any
there's,
not
too
many
streets
out
there,
where
somebody
doesn't
think
they're
speeding
on
their
street
right,
and
so
it
we
can
get
bombarded
by
a
lot
of
applications,
and
so
that's
where
that
petition
comes
in
and
says,
if
you're
serious
about
this,
you
go
put
in
some
time,
meet
all
your
neighbors
and
get
a
petition
signed.
What
I'm?
Finding
though
it
is,
is
very
easy
to
get
those
petitions
signed
because
who's,
not
somebody
shows
up
on
your
door.
D
She
was
very
persistent
and
got
those
signatures
and
there's
no
application
fee
or
anything
so
staff's
just
kind
of
we
put
them
in
a
queue
and
we
get
to
them.
When
we
can.
We
have
our
other
work
that
we're
working
on
too,
and
so
some
of
these
are
a
little
frustrating
in
the
community
because
they
turned
in
their
petition
and
they
want
action
that
day
or
that
next
week
or
that
next
meeting
and
it's
tough,
because
we
can
get
a
lot
of
them
I.
D
D
We've
done
the
preliminary
numbers,
we've
told
them:
hey
you're,
just
we're
not
getting
the
speeding,
we're
not
getting
the
numbers,
you're
not
going
to
qualify
and
most
those
times
they'll
go
away,
but
when
there
is
no
fee-
and
there
is
no
application-
there's
not
a
anything
to
stop
the
whole
city
from
coming
in
every
street,
and
so
it
is
an
interesting
eye-opener
for
me,
as
the
the
new
manager
of
it
to
to
kind
of
see
that
and
with
kaiifaro.
As
a
great
example
is
they
didn't
even
meet
the
criteria
to
have
traffic
calming
measures?
D
Our
policy
says
since
she
received
more
than
67
percent
of
the
neighborhood.
We
had
to
have
a
hearing
anyway,
and
so
I
came
in
charge
and
said
well:
did
they
ever
get
their
hearing?
Does
she
want
one?
She
says,
of
course,
so
we
came
here,
but
with
recommendation
for
denial
of
anything
and
reality
is,
it
was
a
tough
thing.
You
know
kind
of
on
you
guys
to
put
you
in
that
spot
and
that's
what,
but
that's
what
our
policy
says
and
I'll
Sidetrack,
just
the
hair,
you
guys
directed
me
to
go
meet
with
them.
D
I
have
met
with
two
of
the
HOA
board
members.
We
did
come
up
with
a
pretty
neat
solution
where,
due
to
the
curve,
due
to
this
downhill,
we're
going
to
put
some
cautionary
signs
that
say
curve
ahead
cautionary
15
miles
an
hour.
It's
not
an
enforceable
speed
limit
for
ticketing
purposes,
but
at
least
somebody
will
see
a
sign
that
says
15
miles
an
hour
and
it's
a
very
cheap,
somewhat
easy
solution
that
could
potentially
help
that
neighborhood
out
their
other
thing
they
brought
up
was.
Can
we
get
some
electronic
speed
signs
permanently
on
our
lights?
D
The
one
we
buy
is
a
lot
more
elaborate
and
much
more
expensive.
So
if
he
wants
to
put
a
cheap
one
up,
they
can
do
that.
We
just
won't,
maintain
it
and
operate
it,
they'll
be
responsible
for
it.
So
that's
something
that
did
help
at
Faro,
but
that's
what
our
policy
says
is
these
people
have
to
you
know
they
go
through.
They
get
their
day
in
court
per
se.
A
F
Yes,
we
have
a
a
program
in
Hardware
or
which
I
mentioned
it.
One
is
a
radar
speed,
radar,
speeding
machines,
we
automatically
get
the
whole
data
from
that
and
the
volumes
and
speed
and
to
get
the
85th
percentile
speed
too.
So
we
get
the
old
results.
That's.
A
A
D
Think
we're
going
to
end
up
actually
doing
that
pretty
soon
for
the
speed
limits
around
the
city,
like
you
were
saying,
I
think
those
are
we're
going
to
end
up
hiring
a
consultant
to
do
that,
because
it's
such
a
wide
array
of
the
whole
city
to
do
speed
surveys
on
every
street,
but
those
sounds
like
aren't
done
by
hand
they're
done
by
those
remote
cameras
that
are
attached
to
files,
and
so
that's
more
of
a
little
bit
more
stealth
of
a
thing,
also
and
so
kind
of
to
finish
up
on
the
process.
D
D
D
You
know
an
interesting
meeting
with
the
HOA
president
and
vice
president,
and
so
it
did
lead
to
something
beneficial
to
that
Community
I
think
if
it
is
a
project
with
recommendations
for
approval,
you
as
a
body
would
then
move
that
forward
to
city
council
once
it
goes
to
city
council,
The
public's
notified
again,
if
it's
an
HOA,
we
try
to
notify
the
entire
HOA,
and
so
that
next
step
at
city
council
will
also
get
into
the
budget
of
those
improvements.
I,
usually
won't
bring
that
up
to
your
sake.
H
So
yeah
in
the
process
here,
I
have
as
a
frequent
as
mentioned
into
Bart
I,
do
watch
all
the
council
meetings
and
there's
a
trend
and
I
notice
it
on
the
agenda
and
I
notice
in
public
comments.
Residents
will
just
come
up
and
complain
and
the
council
wanting
to
be
responsible,
direct
staff
to
do
something
and
then
I
see
that
Weeks
Later
pop
back
up
on
the
agenda
and
there's
a
little
report.
H
We're
not
involved
we're
bypassed
and
it
seems
to
me
we're
almost
doing
a
disservice
and
what
we
should
do
is
follow
this
process
anytime.
We
realize
that
the
intake
is
through
the
form
or
through
a
council
public
comment.
I
think
it
would
be
wise
if
we
they
accept
that
and
then
the
staff
response
would
be
we'll
put
you
through
our
process.
We'll
show
you
what
it
is.
You
can
get
your
signatures
and
then
put
them
through
this
whole
thing.
Then
it
gets
to
the
council
versus
skipping.
D
If
you
want
to
talk
offline
to-
or
here
it's
fine,
there
was
a,
there
was
a
situation
where
they
came
back
and
said:
Can
staff
report
back
on
this
certain
application.
D
H
Think
if
they're
educated,
that
we
have
this
process,
I've
been
on
here
a
year
and
didn't
know
a
lot
of
this
I
mean
I
have
met
with
you.
One-On-One
and
we've
gone
on
a
couple
field.
Trips
and
you've
been
very
helpful
and
so
I've
kind
of
learned
through
experience
that
you
do
all
this
stuff.
But
prior
I
really
didn't
even
know
and
I'll
bet.
Some
of
the
council
members
may
not
know
as
well.
D
And
that's
what
you
know
the
purpose
of
tonight
is
then
just
help.
Let
you
guys
know
that
there
is
a
process
for
this.
If
people
are
approaching
you
on
the
street
or
the
emails
you're,
seeing
let
them
know
contact
us
at
in
Jane
or
Ryan
or
myself
we'll.
Let
them
know
the
process
if
it's
not
already
on
our
website,
I'll
I'll
kind
of
look
to
see
if
it's
on
our
website
and
make
sure
that's
there
too,
and
there
is
a
process
for
it.
Certain
other
aspects
you
brought
up.
D
If
there
is
questions
of
you,
know
certain
areas,
we
don't
always
bring
everything
to
Planning
Commission
last
night
was:
can
a
roundabout
fit
on
palazada?
It
wasn't
a
formal
survey,
it
wasn't
a
full
study.
We
did
we
just
we
looked
at
it
and
went
it
just
doesn't
have
the
configuration
of
all
the
streets
don't
make
that
an
option?
D
My
last
point
on
this
page
is:
you
know
from
our
CIP
budget.
We
are
given
just
80
000
a
year
on
traffic
calming
that
could
be
used
really
quickly
on
one
street
one
block
if
you
were
to
throw
your
whole
toolbox
at
one
street,
and
so
that's
something
to
take
into
consideration
when
it's
very
easy,
when
the
first
person
of
the
year
shows
up,
do
you
give
them
the
whole?
D
You
know
allotment
because
that
next
person
who
shows
up
you're,
saying
you're,
approved
once
it
goes
to
council
I'm,
going
to
say:
okay,
we're
out
of
money,
they're
going
to
either
go
next
year
or
your
general
fund
is
going
to
pay
for
this.
So
that's
that
tough
decision
that
Council
then
has
put
on
so
staff
will
usually
try
to
go
through
this
in
an
economical
sense
of.
D
Can
we
spread
this
around
a
little
bit
and
try
to
you
know
make
as
much
as
the
community
happy
as
we
can,
so
that
kind
of
explains
the
process
at
least
itself.
D
You
know
some
of
the
things
we
look
at
when
we
are
calculating
this
I
mentioned
before.
When
we
first
get
those
petitions
we're
seeing
if
they
even
qualify,
do
they
meet
the
score
I.E
do
they?
Is
it
warranted
for
traffic
calming
devices
to
be
put
in
we
measure
their
speed.
We
look
at
their
average
daily
traffic
counts
has
to
be
a
certain
range
really
for
us
to.
If
you
only
got
six
cars
on
your
street,
we're
not
going
to
recommend
anything
so
you're
going
to
get
a
zero
in
that
column.
D
Right
and
so
there's
you
know,
there's
a
point
scale
on
this
table.
You
have
in
front
of
you.
We
look
at
crashes,
we
look
at
The,
Pedestrian
generators.
Are
there
sidewalks
or
are
there
Pathways
for
people
and
safety
issues
on
that
street?
That
we
should
take
into
consideration
and
I
think
was
that
Gary
at
the
last
meeting
on
pharah
you
had
mentioned,
you
know,
there's
a
park
nearby.
What
about
the
further
park
or
the
further?
The
tough
thing
with
that
is.
D
You
can
always
kind
of
go
further
out
on
this,
so
there
is
no
radius
on
some
of
these
things
for
the
beneficial
things,
that's
kind
of
just
our
engineering
judgment
and
we
try
to
be
consistent
across
the
community
of
just
trying
to
be
fair
to
everybody.
So
if
somebody
doesn't
meet
that
51
points,
we'll
notify
those
applicants
and
say
hey,
do
you
maybe
want
us
to
redo
that
study
in
the
summer
when
there's
more
traffic
or,
if
you
think
something's
so
a
good
example
that
was
the
100
block
of
Barcelona?
D
They
technically
didn't
meet
that
criteria
the
first
time
around
and
so
you'll
see
a
petition.
That's
two
years
old,
sometimes
and
will
say:
hey
we're
going
to
try
again
in
the
summer,
because
maybe
maybe
this
traffic's
different,
the
patterns
are
different
and
so
for
Barcelona.
That
did
help
them,
and
that
was
that
last
one
that
we
formally
approved
through
your
body.
D
So,
like
I
said
cayefaro
is
that
last
one
you
saw
so
I'm,
not
picking
on
them,
but
I
liked
their
analysis
of
it.
They
ended
up
with
47
instead
of
51
on
the
point
scale
pretty
close,
but
that's
why
we
showed
up
with
hey
we're
not
recommending
anything
out
here
for
them
from
a
financial
standpoint.
In
a
design
standpoint,
the.
D
So
if
yeah
we
had
that
hearing,
because
their
petition
had
more
than
67
percent
of
the
neighborhood,
and
so
that's
that
one
thing
in
that
policy
that
do
we
really
want
to
do
a
hearing
every
time
there's
a
denial.
So
that's
something
that
kind
of
opened
my
eyes.
A
lot
was:
if
we
do
that,
then
why
even
do
the
studies?
Why
even
do
stuff?
If
there's
just
going
to
be
a
herring
every
time?
D
Let's
just
come
up
here
and
and
do
this,
but
so
there's
a
there's
a
you
know,
there's
a
benefit
either
way
of
doing
the
hearing
or
not
and
pharah
was
a
good
example,
though
I
think
your
guys's
recommendation
to
have
me
see
if
I
can
work
other
things
out.
It
did.
You
know
I
kind
of
had
my
doubts
at
first,
because
we
had
already
analyzed
it,
but
I
think
we
ended
up
finding
something
with
that
HOA
where
I
thought
they
were
pretty
happy
the
other
day
when
I
finished
with
them.
Thank
you
for
doing
that.
D
E
D
A
great
question
actually
and
that's
what
I
warned
them
about,
because
he
came
back
with
I.
Think
it's
a
three
thousand
dollar
camera
and
I
said
well.
Ours
is
close
to
eight
or
nine,
so
there
must
be
something
wrong
here,
even
though
we
pay
prevailing
wage
on
certain
things.
D
So
I,
my
Jane,
our
traffic
assistant,
engineer
immediately
said:
oh,
no,
that's
the
the
cheap
one
out
of
the
box
type
of
thing:
cidio's
not
probably
look
at
the
quality
of
it,
we'll
issue
an
encroachment
permit
to
allow
it
there
for
kind
of
a
hold
harmless,
but
we'll
also
have
that
right
to
remove
it
or
have
them
remove
it.
E
D
That's
an
excellent
point
too,
because
electronic
speed
signs
are
on
in
our
toolbox
and
when
we
do
the
device
like
that
or
speed
cushions,
we
actually
one
of
the
part
of
that
process.
When
we
say
get
the
neighborhood
consent
on
there.
We
literally
get
written
approval
from
the
four
houses
that
surround
those
devices
and
so
I'm
asking
for
not
just
the
renter
but
the
property
owner's
approval,
if
possible,
and
because
they're
going
to
be
the
ones
with
a
flashing
light
or
a
speed
cushion
that
they
have
to
back
over
every
day.
D
So
we'll
put
them
in
the
places
that
make
most
sense
economically
and
scientifically,
especially
for
the
the
lights
kind
of
go
on
the
nearest
pole,
but
speed
cushions
will
put
them
where
they,
where
the
science
is
telling
us
where
to
put
them.
But
then
we
go
to
those
neighbors
and
say:
hey
you're,
going
to
have
one
right
here.
Are
you
okay
with
it?
D
If
they're
not
we'll
shove
it
down
the
street
a
little
bit
and
shift
it
down
the
street,
a
bit
that
in
the
packet
you
guys
got,
you
have
the
I
think
it's
47,
48
page
traffic
calming
manual.
There
are
a
lot
of
things
in
there.
The
first
few
pages
are
very
helpful.
If
you
are
reading
it
look
at
the
first
few
pages.
It
talks
about
the
process
that
we
just
you
know
if
I
skipped
over
anything,
it's
pretty
detailed
in
there.
D
You
know
I
have
here
on
their
screen
a
list
of
a
lot
of
different
things:
roundabouts,
Road
diets,
road
diet,
you're,
taking
a
four
lane
down
to
two
lanes
type
of
thing:
that's
a
big
step.
Those
are
usually
very
Regional
type,
not
something
that's
coming
from
a
citizen
and
not
something
financially
that
the
city
is
going
to
do
on
a
small
residential
street
unless
it's
Council
driven.
D
So
a
lot
of
those
measures
in
that
in
that
guidebook,
that
you
got
now
are
stuff
that
we
just
they're
more
big
picture:
San
Clemente,
South,
El,
Camino
Real.
We
are
looking
at
a
road
diet,
we're
looking
at
taking
four
lanes
down
to
two
in
The
Trestle
neighborhood
down
there
from
Magdalena
all
the
way
to
the
City
Line.
The
traffic
doesn't
require
the
four
lanes.
D
We
have
an
opportunity
for
a
bicycle,
Improvement
Grant
and
we'll
stripe
it
for
two
with
a
nice
wider
parking
Zone,
and
that
should
calm
the
traffic
down
there
too.
So
those
types
of
applications
are
a
lot
of
what
you're.
Seeing
in
this
the
reference
manual.
You
get
so
I'll
kind
of
go
through
this
pretty
quick,
but
a
lot
of
those
aren't
stuff
you're
going
to
see
on
an
average
residential
request
that
we're
going
to
get
so.
D
This
is
kind
of
that
continued
list
of
a
lot
of
things
you're,
seeing
on
there,
the
ones
that
we
do
and
I'll
go
over
next
are
in
this
toolbox
and
they're
the
you
know.
We,
you
start
with
the
easy
pickings
and
we
go
into
the
more
and
more
expensive
things
is,
is
what
I'll
get
into
examples
of
what
we
typically
do
and
we'll
get
these
from
petitions,
and
it's
kind
of
how
it
started
with
the
city
is
we'd,
get
a
petition.
We'd
go
in
our
toolbox,
and
what
can
we
do?
D
You
can
remove
center
lines
in
certain
streets
where
it's
not
too
curvy
and
not
too
hilly.
We
can
remove
those
center
lines
and
start
adding
adding
what's
called
Edge
striping
it.
Not
all
people
believe
us
on
this,
but
the
science
shows
that
that
technically
slows
people
down
or
it
should
over
time.
D
You
have
some
conflict
in
friction
when
cars
are
passing
each
other,
where
they're
not
sure
where
that
Center
is
it
forces
everybody
to
start
slowing
down,
and
so
that's
one
of
the
ones
that
we
we
started
as
when
it
was
only
when
people
were
complaining
of
speeding.
This
last
asphalt
repair
project
that
we
just
did
and
we're
asphalting
84
streets
right
now
we
went
ahead
and
just
Council
gave
Direction
I
found.
D
So,
instead
of
going
through
the
process
40
times
or
with
a
huge
list
to
you
guys,
Council
on
2012
I
found
gave
staff
that
ability
to
just
hey,
if
you
can
just
start
adding
Edge
lines
and
removing
center
lines
just
go
for
it,
and
so
that
was
something
that
the
policy
may
not
address.
That,
though
it
probably
says
we
do.
We
go
through
a
different
thing.
So
if
we
update
the
policy,
I'll
probably
include
that
staff
does
have
the
ability
to
add
edge
lines
where
the
city
engineer
feels
it's
applicable.
D
So
that's
one
of
the
most
first
things
we
do
on
a
lot
of
streets
and
now
we're
doing
it
more
proactively,
instead
of
just
when
complaints
are
coming
in
and
so
another
neat
project
the
city
did.
This
is
one
of
those
bigger
picture
projects
down
in
the
north
beach.
We
did
some
curb
extensions
like
bulb
outs,
and
so
this
is
that
interchange
of
boca
de
Playa
and
Avenida
Pico
Ellie's
table
I
believe
that
is
thank
you.
This
drastically
slows
people
down
around
that
corner.
D
It's
it's
got,
yield
signs.
It's
got
cross
blocks.
We've
now
shifted
the
parking
to
back
in.
So
this
is
something
that
you
know
was
Council
directed,
I.
Think
I
wasn't
part
of
this,
but
it's
a
bigger
type
project
and
one
of
the
things
I
noticed
going
through
the
traffic
manual
myself.
There's
a
table
in
there
about
average
cost
for
things
I'm
going
to
say:
that's,
not
a
very
accurate
table
on
a
lot
of
these
things.
D
The
bulb
out
was
not
fifteen
thousand
dollars,
it
was
closer
to
250
000
project,
and
so,
when
you
start
getting
a
neighborhood
request
of,
let's
do
narrowing
the
streets
and
bulb
outs.
Keep
that
in
mind
those
costs
on
that
table
you're.
Seeing
are
not
today's
numbers,
that's
for
sure,
and
probably
not
very
realistic,
and-
and
you
know
today's
numbers
and
I'll
kind
of
leave
it
at
that
some
of
the
bigger
streets
you
see-
this
is
Camino
Del,
Rio
I.
D
Believe
it
was
four
lanes
when
it
was
very
first
constructed,
and
this
was
shifting
it
down
to
one
lane
and
adding
a
single
Lane,
roundabout
and
diameter
on.
This
is
about
a
hundred
feet,
curb
to
curb
what
you
need
and
so
you're
not
going
to
see
that
on
most
streets.
We're
not
going
to
see
this
as
an
option
unless
that
right-of-way
is
very
large,
and
so
it
wouldn't
have
worked
with
a
two-lane
roundabout
for
two
lanes,
and
so
it's
a
bottleneck
that
gets
it
down
to
one
lane
around.
D
You
have
to
have
a
certain
stacking
of
vehicles
in
between
intersections
to
get
to
a
roundabout,
and
so
it
was
a
great
idea
to
look
into
it's
just
a
matter
of
it.
Didn't
the
the
physics
of
it
didn't
work
in
terms
of
those
intersections
are
all
about
200
feet
apart.
You
can't
really
squeeze
in
around
about
that
area
and
so
speed
cushions.
This
is
something
that's
become
a
a
hot
item.
D
So
one
thing
I
will
say
you
know
these
are
examples
of
what
we've
done
in
the
past
I'm
I'm
noticing,
as
I
take
over
this
kind
of
role
as
some
of
the
areas
we're
receiving
speed
cushions
prior
to
implementing
some
of
those
other
things
that
they
should
have
been
implementing
first,
and
so
they
kind
of
went
straight
to
whatever
the
public
wanted,
and
so
that's
not
what
our
policy
says,
though
our
policy
I
believe
have
it
on
the
slide
here.
The
highlighted
section
on
this
policy
is
speed.
D
Humps
will
be
considered
after
following
the
process
of
defined
in
the
traffic
calming
policy
and
after
implementing
other
non-intrusive
tools
for
controlling
speeds,
and
so
most
speed.
Humps
that
you
see
in
these
communities
probably
didn't
go
through
that
whole
toolbox
before
they
got
to
that
more
intrusive
type
of
device,
and
so
and
then
now
it's
kind
of
snowballing
on
us
a
little
bit,
because
now
one
street
has
it
the
next
street
wants
it.
The
next
street
wants
it.
D
The
next
street
wants
it,
and
so
you
physically
it's
a
physical
barrier,
and
so
what
this
sentence
is
telling
me
is,
we
should
be
looking
at
some
of
those
things
that
aren't
as
of
intrusive
and
so
I'll
probably
be
proposing
a
lot
of
electronic
speed
signs
in
the
upcoming
applications,
because
that
is
something
that's
less
intrusive
and
I
have
looked
at
other
City's
policies
just
to
see
how
out
of
date,
ours
is
if
it
needs
any
updating
some
of
the
Cities.
It's
it's
very
outlined.
D
You
will
start
with
this,
then
you
will
do
this
and
then
you'll
do
speed
bumps
or
literally
the
last
last.
You
know
item
type
of
thing,
so
that
is
something
that
we
will
be
bringing
forward
to
you
on
some
of
these
next
couple.
Applications.
D
Like
I
mentioned
before
the
speed,
hump
policy
is
actually
a
separate
document.
We
included
it
in
your
packet
I.
Think
it's
in
the
first
few
pages,
it's
just
a
four-page
document
that
talks
about
some
of
the
criteria
for
for
Speed
dumps,
Ryan
and
Jane
love
to
correct
me.
It's
I
think,
there's,
there's
I,
think
you
or
you
have
a
slide
on
this.
Maybe
I
should
say
that.
D
Oh
well,
actually
it's
on
this
slide,
never
mind,
so
they
like
to
tell
me
I,
should
be
referring
to
the
speed
cushions
speed.
Cushions
are
more
of
that
rubberized
device
that
you
put
down.
As
you
see
on
this
screen
and
speed,
humps
speed
tables,
there's
other
different
devices
out
there
right
now.
The
cities
got
a
pre-approval
from
OCFA
to
that
they,
like
the
speed,
cushions
their
trucks,
fit
over
those
spacing
in
the
gaps.
D
So
that's
why
the
city
has
moved
forward
with
speed,
cushions
on
most
every
application
and
not
gone
forward
with
some
of
these
others.
If
we
do
go
with
any
other
designs,
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
emergency
service
response
times
and
having
to
get
those
analyzed
every
time,
and
so
it's
easier
for
the
pass.
It
looks
like
staff
just
simply
picked
the
speed
cushions
that
OCFA
was
okay
with
and
that's
how
we've
ended
up
with
a
lot
of
streets
with
speed,
cushions
I'm,
not
sure
how
I'm
doing
on
time.
D
But
that
was
the
end
of
my
presentation
but
open
it
up
to
any
questions.
If
you
have
any
or
just
got
a
question,
yeah.
G
D
Some
of
them
are
going
to
be
permanent.
Recently
we
last
year,
one
of
my
first
things,
I
did
for
traffic
was
adding
you
guys.
Actually
it
was
your
recommendation
on
pandresa
when
we
added
the
bike
Lanes.
Due
to
the
number
of
complaints
we
received
in
the
community,
we
started
looking
at
other
options
of
what
we
should
do
and
we're
not
going
to
add
speed
cushions
on
a
45
mile
an
hour
road,
so
that
next
option
in
our
toolbox
was
curve
ahead.
D
G
It
seems
like,
after
a
while,
you
know
people
would
start
to
ignore
those
if
they're
there
for
years,
I.
D
D
At
least
that's
what
my
thought
process
is
that
are
coming
in
and
not
as
familiar
with
the
area
just
to
pay
slow
down
your
speeding
and
I
think
you
know:
I
I
drive
Camino
Capistrano
very
often,
and
they
have
them
up
there
on
that
25
mile
an
hour
Zone
on
Camino
Capistrano
up
in
I.
Guess
that's
Dana
Point,
but
they
have
some
up
there
and
it
definitely
still
forces
me
to
slow
down
because
I
I
picture,
that
being
a
police
officer.
Looking
at
that,
as
he's
giving
you
ready
to
give
you
a
ticket,
you
know.
E
I
got
a
couple
things,
so
commissioner,
Camp
I
think
brought
up
a
fee.
Is,
is
there
a
fee
or
is
there
not
a
fee,
there's
not
a
fee,
but
should
we
consider
one?
This
is
to
kind
of
everybody
to
you
Adam.
Should
there
be
a
fee
too,
and
how
okay?
Let's
back
up,
how
many
of
these
petitions
do
we
get
annually?
We.
D
Would
probably
guess,
at
least
in
terms
of
just
contacts
to
staff
at
least
50,
how
many
turn
into
formal
petitions?
You
know
maybe
10.
You
know,
because
not
a
lot
of
people
once
we
tell
them
a
lot
of
people,
we
can
tell
right
away
hey
your
Street's,
too
steep.
It's
got
too
it's
too
turned
and
and
you're
just
not
going
to
get
the
speed
bumps
and
no
a
lot
of
people
will
go
away.
D
Know
I'd
have
to
look
at
that.
That's
a
great
question,
though
we
do
spend
quite
a
bit
of
time
once
these
are
going
in
and
it
could
be
in
the
dozens
of
hours
and
you're.
Looking
at
you
know
forty
to
sixty
dollars
an
hour
staff
members
and.
E
H
Personally,
don't
think
it's
a
good
idea,
because
it's
public
safety
and
you
don't
want
to
put
an
economic
hurdle
in
front
of
that
I
also
think
that
you
could
increase
the
number
of
signatures.
But
you
know
frankly,
this
is
tricky
because
it's
a
perception
and
there's
reality
sometimes
with
the
same.
Sometimes
the
perception
and
reality
are
not
the
same,
but
you
have
to
do
something
because
it's
a
problem
for
the
people
who
live
there
every
day,
so
I
think
part
of
it
is
just
it's
communication.
It's
education.
H
It's
letting
the
council
know
that
this
isn't.
You
know
this
is
going
to
require
funding,
but
I
don't
yeah
I,
you
know,
maybe
you
know,
educating
HOAs.
You
know
on
this
kind
of
stuff
and
letting
them
you
know
be
the
first
line
of
Education
but
I
think
the
process
should
not
have
a
fee
and
I
think
it
should
be
accessible.
H
You
know,
and
but
maybe
there
is
a
educational
PowerPoint
or
some
kind
of
a
PDF
file
that
when
people
contact
you
boom,
they
get
that
and
it
kind
of
lays
out
like
if
these
are
the
things
that
you're
thinking.
These
are
the
things
that
we'd
have
to
do.
These
are
maybe
some
smaller
or
quicker
or
less
intrusive
types
of
solutions
that
we
might
you
know,
might
be
able
to
do
quicker
or
sooner
and
just
to
give
that
information
to
people,
because
I
don't
think
they.
The
community
really
understands
this.
H
Any
of
the
you
know
best
practices
they
don't
understand.
A
lot
of
traffic
engineering,
Concepts
and
so
for
Education
could
be
helpful
right
and
and
right
off
the
bat
so
that
residents
feel
they're
hurt,
because
that's
the
number
one
thing
I
think
that
we
will
want
to
do
is
make
sure
people
are
hurt
same
with
Council.
So
that's
a
that
should
be
maybe
a
new
toolkit
item.
It
could
be
something
like
a
public-facing
document
and.
D
That's
a
good
idea,
I
think
as
as
we
as
Ryan's
getting
into
his
role
and
we're
kind
of
catching
up
on
a
lot
of
stuff
that
is
kind
of
backlogged
a
little
bit
one
of
the
things
I
had
an
idea
was,
is
to
re-look
at
our
website.
Look
at
those
packets
of
is
there
a
way
to
you
know.
We
still
want
to
be
that
you
know
Jane
answers
a
lot
of
calls.
Ryan
answers
a
lot
of
calls,
Jane's,
very
responsive
to
people
and
but
I.
D
Don't
so
I
don't
want
to
just
hey,
see
the
website
goodbye,
but
so
we're
always
answering
the
calls.
But
at
the
same
time
it's
a
lot.
You
know
when
you
get
it's
a
very
emotional
subject
for
people
and
it's
tough
and
you
get
I
get
on
the
phone,
because
I'll
say
if
they're
really
mad,
you
know
let
them
vent
to
me
and
it
could
be
a
long
call
because
it's
not
something
you're
hanging
up
on.
D
You
know
you're
talking
to
people
for
quite
a
long
time,
and
you
know
it's
it's
very
emotional
subject
for
people
though,
and
it's
tough
I'm
on
a
tiny
cul-de-sac
in
town
I
think
people
are
speeding,
they're,
probably
not
because
it's
such
a
short
cul-de-sac,
but
it
really
feels
like
they
are
they're
technically
going
too
fast
for
the
situation,
but
are
they
going
25?
And
so
that's
always
a
tough
one.
Yeah.
A
I
have
a
couple
questions
Zach
in
the
traffic
and
kind
of
more
General
in
the
traffic
engineering,
profession
and
practice.
A
There's
standards
for
for
just
about
everything.
Right
I
mean
when
you
play
stop
signs
what
conditions
have
to
exist
or
cross
rocks.
Like
you
mentioned
things
like
that,
there's
very
defined
standards
that
you
guys
can
analyze
and
say
it
doesn't
meet
these
criteria
or
not.
Is
that
accurate,
yes,
okay
and,
and
for
the
most
part,
my
understanding
is?
Is
that
if,
if
where
cities
get
in
trouble,
is
it
liability
wise
is
if
they
don't
follow
the
standards?
D
It's
pretty
accurate
and
if
you
know
I'll
be
pretty
upfront
with
you
guys,
if,
if
we're
not
recommending
a
speed
cushion-
and
you
guys
want
to
put
one
on
a
steep
street
I'm
going
to
probably
stand
up
and
say,
I
really
believe
you
guys
need
to
reconsider
this
because
it
starts
turning
into
a
liability
issue,
because
you
don't
put
speed
cushions
above
a
certain
percentage
of
steep
Street.
You
don't
put
them
on
a
bend,
and
so,
if
staffs,
you
kind
of
recommending
something
take
it
with
a
grain
of
salt.
H
Real
quick,
like
that's
where
we
have
the
electronic
speed
signs,
because,
where
I
live,
it's
maybe
seven
percent
grade
and
it's
a
curve
correct.
You
can
go
60
just
coasting,
so
we
put
that
sign
up
there.
I'm
telling
you
I
don't
see
Speeders
hardly
at
all,
and
people
do
observe
that
and
it's
up
there
and
it's
a
really
effective
on
downhill,
where
you
can't
put
any
kind
of
other
measures
in.
D
And
that
was
padresa
right,
because,
if
that's
the
case,
those
bike
Lanes
probably
really
helped,
and
that
too,
because
it
it
felt
like
such
a
wide
Lane
yeah.
When
you
were
driving
that
I
used
to
take
my
kid
to
learn
to
drive
out
there
and
it
was
felt
like
such
a
wide
Lane
once
the
bike
Lanes
went
in
and
it
narrowed
it
down
to
10
or
11
feet.
It
really
slows
you
down
just
mentally
because
you're
you're
in
a
lane
now
not
a
wide
Highway.
A
Okay,
are
there
frequently
unintended
consequences
when
you
guys
go
to
implement
a
proposed
solution?
A
D
You
know
I'm
not
aware
of
a
lot
that
the
dots
were
an
interesting
one
I
they
were
put
in
in
the
Frontera
the
coast
area
under
a
different
application
as
a
traffic
calming
measure,
and
it
did
come
back
and
get
requested
to
be
removed
due
to
an
issue
like
that,
that's
the
only
one
I
can
kind
of
think
of
I
haven't
really
heard
of
maybe
Jane's
the
one
that
Hears
A
lot
of
the
calls,
though
I
can
ask
her
that
and
report
back
to
you.
A
Though
well
I
guess
it's
not
just
that
or
what
I'm
thinking
is
like,
for
example,
unwarranted.
Stop
signs
right.
My
understanding
is
okay.
People
want
to
put
in
a
stop
sign
to
slow
people
down,
but
then,
if,
if
the
drivers,
if
they're
always
stopping
at
a
sign
and
there's
never
any
cross
traffic,
they're
more
likely
to
just
blow
off
or
blow
through
the
stop
sign,
because
it's
not
supposed
to
be
there.
D
That
sign
and
last
night
was
a
great
example
at
sancagomia
Park,
where,
if
people
are
running
that
sign,
it's
usually
because
there's
not
a
lot
of
other
people
traveling
that
street
for
through
traffic
other
than
going
to
the
park,
and
so
people
are
just
so
used
to
that.
It
sounds
like
they're.
You
know
I'm,
just
starting
to
run
the
sign.
Okay,
but.
D
Both
complaint,
wise
I
think
you
just
yeah
it's
that
overall
traffic
I
think
people
are
just
don't
like
the
traffic
on
their
streets
and
now,
with
the
you,
get
a
lot
of
louder
cars
we're
getting
a
lot
of
complaints
on
loud
cars.
Yeah
sounds
like
they're
going
fast,
but
they
could
be
going
really
slow
and
loud
and
so
I
think
it's
a
wide
spectrum.
Okay,.
A
My
for
my
two
cents
I
would
recommend
that
that
you
guys
consider
updating
the
the
construction
cost
estimates
in
this
manual.
If,
because,
if
you
say
that
they're
nowhere
close
to
realistic,
then
that
just
gives
everybody
an
unrealistic.
It
gives
the
public
an
unrealistic
thing
of
what
they're
asking
for
it
gives
Council
oh
well,
we
can
give
them
one
of
those,
and
then
it
turns
out
it's
eight
times
that
or
whatever
that
would
be
my
two
cents.
D
Yeah
and
we'll
we'll
get
into
our
website
and
just
see
if
there's
a
nice
packet
for
it,
I
think
that
was
a
great
example
and
something
I
was
planning
on
doing
because
we've
I
we've
done
a
couple
different
things
like
that
for
other
aspects
of
difficulty
to
deal
with
things
in
the
city
and
create
a
little
flow
chart
for
them.
I
won't
go
as
elaborate
as
this
flowchart,
but
I'll
try
to
keep
it
simple
for
the
people.
Okay,
yeah.
C
One
item
for
your
consideration:
it
is
about
to
be
5,
55
p.m.
We
have
a
regular
study
session
or
excuse
me
regular
meeting
at
the
Planning
Commission
scheduled
to
start
at
6
pm
if
you'd
like
to
take
a
break.
That's
not
that's
okay,
but
it
would
be
nice
to
decide
now
whether
you'd
like
to
start
that
meeting
at
six
and
take
a
five
minute
break
beforehand
or
extend
the
study
session
if
you'd
like
to.
A
A
So
with
that,
I'll
adjourn
the
this
study
session
to
the
next
regular
study
session
to
be
held,
Wednesday
December,
7
2022
at
5
pm
and
City
Hall,
council
chambers
and.
F
C
Not
in
attendance
chair
Pro,
tem
Camp,
here
Vice,
chair
Cosgrove.
A
Thank
you.
We
have
no
special
orders
of
business.
We
do
have
item
number
five.
The
minutes
from
the
Planning
Commission
meeting
of
November,
2nd
I'd
like
to
note
that
there
is
a
revised
version
very
slightly
revised.
There
was
a
date
corrected
in
that,
so
we're
going
to
be
considering
the
revised
version
with
the
corrected
dates.
A
I,
don't
see
anyone
here
to
speak
on
any
items
not
on
the
agenda.
Is
that
correct
great?
We
have
nothing
on
the
consent
calendar
moving
on
to
item
8A,
public
hearings,
discretionary
sign,
permit,
DSP,
22-151,
raya's,
Paradise
residential
care
facility,
Monument
sign.
L
It
is
going
to
be
a
monument
sign
for
Reyes
Paradise
care
facility
for
dementia
Alzheimer's.
It
was
approved
in
July,
5th,
2016
and
isn't
in
Full
Construction.
It's
a
two-story
building
and
the
proposed
site
location
for
the
monument
sign
is
at
the
corner
of
California
and
Avenida
Del
Presidente.
L
Also,
the
sign
is
going
to
be
located
near
a
city
Gateway,
that's
located
off
of
the
I-5
and
the
California
off-ramp.
L
The
applicant
Laura
Riley
with
starfish
signs
is
requesting
approval
of
a
62.7
square
foot
Monument
sign.
It
has
a
Halo
Illumination
in
the
middle
Channel
letters
for
the
logo
and
non-aluma
illuminated
letters
at
the
bottom.
The
monument
sign
reflects
the
Spanish
colonial
revival.
Design
of
the
primary
building
the
materials
proposed
are
Spanish
colonial
revival,
architecture,
there's
blue
glazed
tile
surround
polished,
bronze
logo
and
Halo
lit
Channel
letters.
There's
non-illuminated
flat
letters
at
the
bottom.
L
The
sign
location
was
reviewed
by
the
design,
Review
Committee
and
found
that
the
given
the
scale
of
the
monument
and
the
size
of
the
letters,
the
sign
was
freeway
visible
and
not
freeway
oriented
in
accordance
with
the
sign
ordinance.
The
sign
size
does
not
create
a
negative
visual
impact
to
the
designated
Gateway
entrance.
L
G
A
A
question:
okay,
great.
G
A
A
C
Yes
and
typically,
we
would
have
a
staff
presentation,
a
a
staff
presentation
followed
by
an
applicant
presentation
if
they,
if
they
wish,
the
public
hearing
typically
would
be
opened
up
after
that,
I
do
think
the
applicants
would
be
in
the
best
position
to
describe
the
materials
and
the
the
design
of
the
sign
itself,
but
staff
staff
could
do
that.
If
that
was
the
commission's
request.
Okay,.
C
Wonderful
woman
over
there
not
near
a
microphone
Riley,
she
is
joined
by
Mike
Riley.
They
are
the
owners
of
starfish
Sign
Company,
the
representatives
of
the
property
owners
here
today,
and-
and
they
can
present
this-
if
you
would
like
I'm
more
than
happy
to
bring
the
board
over
to
the
podium
so
that
she
can
speak
into
the.
G
M
There's
been
a
lot
of
design
and
redesign,
but
I
can
go
over
this.
This
is
going
to
be
block
and
block
and
then
with
stucco
on
the
back
of
it.
So
you
can
see
the
stucco's
here.
The
front
is
going
to
have
the
glazed
blue
right
here.
These
decorative
panels
are
going
down
the
sides
on
both
sides.
M
Okay,
these-
this
is
the
non
this
color
here.
C
is
the
non-illuminated
residential
care
communities,
that's
not
illuminated,
and
then
the
G
is.
This
is
going
to
be
a
bronze
illuminated
logo
Halo
illuminated
with
the
Paradise
being
also
illuminated,
and
then
this
is
white
behind
it.
A
M
A
M
K
H
E
E
It's
beautiful
building,
it's
gorgeous
super
classy,
I,
dig
it
I
went
by
it
today.
I
think.
Is
there
Lighting
hours
you
know
I
mean?
Does
this
thing
turn
off
at
like
10
o'clock?
You
know,
there's
some
residents,
I
was
just
wondering:
is
there
city
ordinance
about
lighting
and
when
the
commercial
buildings
lights
turn
off
on
signs
or
anything
like
that?
The.
C
There
are
that's
not
to
say
that
there
there
could
not
be
signs
conditioned
to
turn
their
lights
off,
because
this,
because
of
the
type
of
use
that
is
on
site
being
a
residential
care
facility,
I,
would
anticipate
that
there's
probably
a
higher
likelihood
that
emergency
services
are
going
to
need
to
find
this
place
overnight,
while
it's
dark,
so
that
would
be
a
consideration.
Could.
H
E
To
see
it
absolutely
good
points,
thank
you.
One
of
my
my
concerns
is
the
overall
height
I.
Think
Coastal
doesn't
engage
if
it's
under
a
certain
height
is
that
true,
I
I
thought
I
saw
something
about
Coastal
it's
in
the
coastal
zone
and
because
it's
under
60
inches
it
doesn't
have
to
be
conditioned
on
Coastal
approval.
Is
that
correct
or
no.
C
Coastal
has
the
ability
to
review.
Currently
they
have
the
ability
to
review
any
projects
that
are
within
the
the
city's
coastal
zone,
with
the
exception
of
a
few
specified
types
of
development
that
are
in
are
what
we
have,
what
we
call
the
categorical
exclusion
order,
if
they're
outside
of
that
which
sign
which
signage
is
not
or
excuse
me
if
signage
is
outside
of
the
categorical
exclusion
order,
then
there's
a
an
application
to
the
coastal
commission,
which
would
be
required,
which
is
a
coastal
development
permit.
C
However,
not
all
projects
go
through
the
entire
CDP
process.
Some
of
them
could
be
eligible
for
either
a
letter
of
exemption
or
a
waiver,
and
those
are
one
and
potentially
three-month
processes
respectively,
where
they
would
look
at
something
and
say:
well,
it's
not
categorically
exempt
from
from
review,
but
it's
not
something
that
we're
terribly
concerned
with,
and
so
at
a
staff
level.
They
may
provide
like
a
letter
of
exemption
yeah.
E
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
the
city
isn't
being
exposed
because
of
the
size
and
the
height
and
everything,
and
particularly
because
I
thought
I
saw
it
referenced
in
here
when
I
was
reading
through
it
wasn't
exposed,
the
city
wasn't
exposed
because
the
height
limit
was
was
so
low
of
60
inches.
So,
but
what
I
want
to
bring
up
behind
the
sign?
E
E
C
No,
the
coastal
commission
does
have
authority
and
jurisdiction
to
review
this
matter.
It
they'll
they
will
have
that
opportunity,
and
so,
if
they're,
if
there's,
if
there's
no
concerns,
then
then,
then
we
don't
the
city's
not
exposed
to
any
potential
liability.
Let's,
let's,
let's
call
it.
C
Yeah,
so
the
grade
was
established
through
the
grading
permit.
That
was
provided
to
build
the
con
to
construct
the
building
that
this
project
does
not
provide
for
and
after
the
fact
re-grading
of
of
this
area.
Everything
that
they're
proposing
here
was
part
of
a
grading
plan.
What
they're
providing
for
review
of
now
is
just
the
monument
sign
that
that
they
had
indicated
on
their
grading
plan
would
would
be
there
should
it
should
it
not
have
been
approved
or
not
be
approved.
C
The
grade
would
still
remain
the
same
as
it
is
now
so
so
the
grade
that
we're
basing
this
off
of
is
what
was
established
when
they
constructed
the
building
foreign.
A
K
A
Was
it
analyzed
to
see
make
sure
that
this
is
outside
of
like
a
site
site
triangle?
Yes,.
A
G
It
didn't
make
it
we
finished
with
her.
K
A
C
A
G
Okay,
this
is
a
gateway
to
the
city.
Everybody
that
exits
at
calafia
is
going
to
see
us.
We
really
like
the
building
right
outside
I,
think
it's
a
good
example
of
Spanish
colonial
revival.
G
I'm
not
opposed
to
the
sign,
I.
Think
it's
you
know
it's
appropriately
sized
relocation.
I
just
think
we
have
very
few
opportunities
to
create
something
unique
at
a
Gateway
location.
I.
Think
the
choice
of
materials
is
fine.
It's
compatible
with
this
style
of
architecture,
but
it's
basically
a
flat
sign.
That
seems
very
two-dimensional.
G
G
G
You
know
the
location
of
this
project,
but
that
also
says
something
about
the
quality
of
the
architecture
and
as
sort
of
an
entrance,
even
as
it
is
on
the
south
end,
certainly
of
the
city,
but
such
an
important
location
I
would
like
to
see
something
a
little
more
unique
am
I
going
to
oppose
it.
No
probably
not
I
mean
I
just
thought,
and
that's
what
I
had
requested
and
I
think.
My
fellow
Commissioners
agreed
with
me
that
this
is
a
great
opportunity
to
do
something
unique.
G
G
What
I
love
to
see
something
that
has
a
three-dimensional
quality
and
I'm,
not
saying
exactly
what
that
is,
but
that
that
relates
to
the
corner,
to
the
grade
to
the
building
and
I'm.
Just
not
seeing
that
in
this
sign
again,
I
I
think
it's
very
appropriate
in
terms
of
the
the
use
of
materials.
I
think
the
size
is
fine,
even
though
it's
what
more
than
double
what
the
I
guess,
which
is
the
reason
we're
looking
at
it
and
again,
if
it.
G
M
But
we
did
bring
that
back
to
the
customer
and
they
just
wanted
to
go
back
go
forward
quickly.
This
was
designed
not
by
us,
but
a
high-end.
Our
I
guess
a
design
company
that
does
high-end
hotels,
so.
G
M
G
H
H
H
C
I
believe
that
Monument
signs
were
part
of
the
permit
streamlining
considerations,
so
I
I
think
there
will
be
an
opportunity
to
to
look
at
that.
The
the
design
guidelines.
However,
when
we're
when
we're
talking
about
the
gateway
locations
of
the
city,
it's
really
the
design
guidelines
and
the
general
plan
policies
that
provide
for
the
discretion
for
hearing
bodies
such
as
this
to
require
a
higher
quality
of
architecture
or
a
more
statement
because
of
that
specific
and
special
location
within
the
city.
J
And
I
just
wanted
to
remind
the
members
who
aren't
that
design
review
reviews,
these
things
based
on
design
guidelines
and
we
give
suggestions.
We
do
not
design
it
for
the
applicant
and
we
are
able
to
give
our
personal
impressions
of
signs
and
all.
But
we
are
still
Bound
by
the
design
guidelines
that
if
they
meet
it,
as
Adam
said,
the
quality
is
something
we
can
address,
but
we
aren't
dictating
to
them
what
it
has
to
be.
J
So
it's
a
fine
line
and.
J
Does
this
meet
the
guidelines
and
I
agree
very
much
with
them,
commissioner
Camp?
Is
it
an
A
plus
plus
on
design
for
the
guidelines?
Man?
Is
it
a
b
yeah
and
that's
passing,
but
you
know
if
the
applicants
had
reviewed
anything
else
that
you
can
comment
on
that
you
might
think
more
addresses.
Some
of
the
concerns
to
address
that
design
review
would
be
great
to
hear.
P
If
I
can
comment,
my
name
is
Mike.
Riley
I
was
at
the
design
room,
the
design,
review
subcommittee
meeting
and
clearly
heard
commissioner
Camp's
comments
and
I.
Remember
the
discussion
about
how
we
might
make
the
sign
more
compelling,
and
you
know
we
talked
about
things
such
as
moving
away
from
the
symmetrical
shape
and
doing
some
other
things.
So
we
certainly
heard
your
comments
and
appreciated
them,
and
you
had
a
second
comment
as
well,
which
was
suggesting
we.
P
What
I
can
say
is
Life's
a
compromise,
we'd
love
to
we'd
love
to
make
unique
and
beautiful
signs
when
you're
here
next
month,
you'll
see
our
sign
behind
you,
which
will
be
handcrafted
and
I
think
quite
striking.
In
this
case
the
our
customer
felt
very
much
a
sense
of
urgent
agency.
In
terms
of
the
time
that's
elapsed,
they
were
concerned
about
visibility
of
the
building
to
emergency
personnel
and
I.
Guess
there
was
some
difficulty
or
some
inability
to
put
some
banners
on
the
building
to
help
Market
the
property
as
well.
P
N
Locations
along
the
freeway
don't
have
anything
special.
If
you
look
at
Avenida,
Vista,
Hermosa
or
Pico
there's
when
you
come
off,
there's
really
nothing
so
to
hoof.
This
project
with
well
you'd
have
Chick-fil-A,
but
it's
not
a
Spanish
I
mean
it
doesn't
have
a
saying:
welcome
to
San,
Clemente
sort
of.
H
N
You
know
we
may
have
some
of
that
on
El,
Camino,
core
El,
Camino
Real,
but
I
think
it's
unfair
to
harness
this
project,
because
most
it's
I
I
usually
frequently
come
off
here,
because
one
of
my
family
members
used
to
live
in
this
area
and
anytime
I.
Have
anybody
different
in
the
car?
What
they
look
at
is
the
building
go
wow,
you
know,
what's
that
so
I
think
to
have
a
son
there
already
is
a
quality
of
gateway-ishness
because
of
its
design
is
Spanish
Colonial.
N
It's
clean
I
like
the
sign
and
I'm
ready
to
approve
this
resolution.
If
you
need
a
motion,
can
I
say
somehow.
A
N
K
G
Did
we
did
recently
look
at
at
a
project
right
there
at
South,
El,
Camino
Real,
and
we
did
make
some
suggestions
about
the
sign
the
projects.
N
I
think
we
looked
historically
at
all
the
freely
off-ramps.
There's
no
unified
Gateway
signage
program,
I
mean
it
might
be
on
paper,
but
there's
nothing
out
there.
Physically
I,
don't
even
know
if
van
El
Camino
Real.
If
in
the
mid
in
the
middle
of
the
meeting,
it
says,
welcome
to
San
Clemente
a
monument
sign.
G
J
A
I
for
one,
my
comments
are
I
I,
don't
I!
Don't
particularly
like
this
sign
to
be
honest:
I
don't
feel
like
it
matches
the
building.
I
don't
feel
like
it
matches
the
architecture
of
the
building.
A
I,
don't
think
it
looks
very
Spanish
colonial
revival
to
me
it
would
have
been
nice
if
the
diagram
coloring
matched
the
coloring
that
you're
presenting
on
the
color
board
I
for
one
think
this
I
agree
wholeheartedly
that
that
it's
not
on
them
necessarily
to
while
it
is
a
gateway,
and
it
should
be
nice
that
we,
it's
not
their
problem,
to
make
a
Gateway
sign
for
us,
but
I,
don't
think
it's
compatible
with
the
building.
I
think
the
building
looks
phenomenal.
A
A
C
B
C
A
Moving
on
item
8B
zoning,
Amendment,
22-395,
Urban,
lot,
split
and
two
unit
projects,
sp9
ordinance,
yeah
and
I-
think
we
have
a
staff
report
from.
I
I
Today,
I'll
be
presenting
to
you
zoning
ordinance
for
urban
law,
splits
and
two
unit
projects,
that's
also
known
as
sb9,
so
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
quick
overview
of
sb9.
It
requires
cities
to
allow
certain
Lots
in
single-family
residential
zones
to
be
split
and
allow
certain
Lots
in
single-family
residential
zones
to
be
developed
with
up
to
two
dwellings.
Sb9
requires
cities
to
approve
eligible
lot,
splits
and
two
unit
projects
ministerially,
which
means
no
discretionary
review
conditions
or
a
public
hearing
and
on
December
7th
of
2021.
I
I
I
So
an
urban
lot
split
again,
like
I
mentioned
before
local
agencies
are
required
to
approve
them
ministerially,
and
it's
for
a
personal
map
for
an
urban
loss
put
under
that
meets
sb9
specific
requirements
and
the
requirements
are
but
they're
not
limited
to
the
map
act,
compliance
location
in
a
single
family,
Zone,
lock
configuration
it
can't
be
historic,
it
can't
be
impacting
any
protected.
Housing
such
as
affordable
housing,
lot,
access,
Etc,
there's
a
full
list
and
here's
an
illustration
of
potential
lock
configuration
under
the
urban
lock
split.
This
is
just
four
of
many
different
ways.
I
A
property
owner
that
meets
the
requirements
of
sb9
can
split
their
lot.
Far
right
on
your
screen.
You
can
see
for
primary
dwelling,
which
is
an
existing
single
family.
Somebody
can
come
in
and
just
split
it
down
half
of
their
lot
and
they
can
sell
off
the
rest
and
then
I
kind
of
put
together
just
kind
of
various
examples
of
what
that
could
look
like
as
long
as
they
can
do
this
as
long
as
they
do
not
exceed
for
units
with
on
that
property.
So
they
can
have
a
combo
of
all
primary
dwelling.
I
For
the
two
unit
project
again,
it
requires
local
cities
to
ministerarily,
approve
it
and
as
long
as
they
meet
the
specific
code
requirements
and
the
two
unit
project
means
development
of
two
primary
dwelling
units
or
if
there
isn't
already
a
primary
dwelling
unit
on
the
law.
The
development
of
a
second
primary
dwelling
unit
on
a
legally
subdivided
law
in
accordance
with
the
government
code
and
again
I,
provided
an
illustration
of
what
that
could
potentially
look
like
this.
It
basically
is
no
lot
splitting
somebody
can
have
one
single
family.
I
So
the
proposed
ordinance
is
basically
codifying
the
standards
contained
in
the
urgency,
ordinance
and
establishing
additional
objective
design
and
development
standards.
As
I
stated
before,
such
as
law
coverage
to
match
underlying
zone
urban
open
area
providing
recreational
space
for
new
dwelling,
we
added
some
architecture
and
Landscaping
and.
I
We
did
meet
with
a
design
review
subcommittee
twice
once
on
September
28th
and
October
26th,
and
we
provide
they
provided
a
lot
of
good
feedback
and
we
revised
the
ordinance
and
then
they
did
provide
their
support
to
staff
to
add
the
additional
objective,
design,
standards
and
staff
recommends
that
the
Planning
Commission
adopt
resolution
provided
an
attachment
one
which
one
determines
the
project
is
exempt
from
SQL
and
two
recommends
that
the
city
council
adopt
an
ordinance
to
amend
chapter
1650,
chapter
1786
to
the
to
the
to
the
San
Clemente
municipal
code
and
to
establish
objective
design,
development
and
subdivision
standards
regulating
Urban
loss
and
two
unit
projects
in
accordance
with
sb9,
and
that
concludes
status.
J
I
got
one
or
a
couple
Sarah:
can
you
pull
up
the
graphic
of
the
lot
splits
and
Steve
jump
in
here
with
me
on
this
and
looking
at
that,
the
majority
of
our
Lots
in
the
city
are
probably
45
to
50
foot
wide
and
I.
Don't
see
that
that
kind
of
a
lot
split
works
on
any
of
those
lots,
and
so
it's
going
to
have
to
be
unique,
larger
Lots,
which
we
have
on
the
other
side
of
the
freeway
and
maybe
in
some
communities,
there's
some
a
little
wider.
J
My
observation
is
we
don't
have
that
many
lots
that
this
can
actually
be
done
on
and
I
take
Steve's
input
on
that
too.
So
it's
not
going
to
be
a
simple
one.
I
don't
see
that
it's
going
to
be
a
financial
advantage
to
anybody
to
split
a
valuable
lot
and
have
to
take
down
their
residence
to
put
a
couple
of
four
small
little
units
and
try
to
to
sell
them
so
I
think
the
one
is.
It
may
not
be
practical
and
I.
Don't
see
that
we'll
have
an
abundance
of
these.
J
There
may
be
a
random
one
here
or
there
so
I,
don't
think
there's
any
Fear
Factor.
For
me
this
seems
kind
of
like
a.
C
No
staff
does
understand
that
that
concept
that
we
we
in
in
just
analyzing
this
it
it
seems
unlikely
that
a
lot
of
properties
are
going
to
pencil
out
to
make
this
work.
However,
one
thing
I
will
say
is
this
graphic
is
designed
to
show
how
units
new
units
can
appear
on
a
currently
single
family,
residentially,
zoned
property.
C
They
don't
have
to
be
split
in
the
middle.
They
need
to
be
about
50
50,
somewhere
between
40
and
60
percent,
the
same
size
when
it's
done
being
split,
but
it
could
be
a
flag
lot
could
be,
could
be.
The
regulations
are
that
there's
a
foot
at
least
a
14
foot,
wide
path
of
travel
for
a
vehicular
access
on
a
flag
lot,
if
that's
the
case,
and
you
have
a
45
foot
wide
lot
that
still
leaves
you
know
about
31
feet
or
so
left
over
on
a
lot.
C
That's
50
70
100
feet
deep
and
we
do
have
those
oh
yeah,
100
of
us
pretty
much
the
standard
right
you
you
start
finding
ways
where
you
you
could
potentially
split
this
and
and
and
build
on
it.
The
question
of
course
remains:
is
it?
Does
it
pencil
out
and
I
think
for
a
lot
of
the
properties
here
it
doesn't.
It
doesn't
really
make
a
whole
lot
of
sense,
not
to
say
that
we
don't
anticipate
seeing
applications
for
this.
J
The
other
thing
I
wanted
to
indicate
was
these
same
pieces
of
property,
have
the
opportunity
to
do
an
Adu
without
the
expense
of
a
lot
split
and
everything
else.
So
we
need
to
keep
that
in
mind
and
especially
when
we're
discussing
it-
and
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
on
our
design
review
going
over
the
ordinance
and
Sarah
did
a
good
job.
Incorporating
those
comments,
yeah
so
yeah
I.
G
Would
just
say
it's
okay!
Oh
please!
Yeah
I
agree
with
with
what
what
BART
is
mentioning,
but
there's
also
a
couple
other
questions.
If
there's
a
development
that
has
ccnr's
which
restrict
the
I
guess
the
development
of
that
particular
property,
how
has
that
impact
this
this
bill.
O
I
got
I,
can
I
can
jump
in
here.
The
ccnrs
would
be
a
private
cause
of
action
among
the
communities,
so
I
would
be.
You
know
someone
on
the
board
or
a
an
affected
neighbor
or
landowner.
That
would
would
sue
to
enforce
those.
So
like
it's,
you
know
it's
a
private
contract
among
the
community,
and
so
it
would
be
handled
at
that
level
among
the
HOA
and
the
the
residents.
So.
O
Well,
I
mean
I:
do
I
have
heard
of
some
communities
amending
their
ccnrs
in
the
state,
but
yeah
I
mean
it
would
be.
I
mean
this
does
apply
Statewide
and
it
does
require
cities
to
allow
it
in
single-family
residential
zones.
So
it
would
be
because
for
the
ccnrs
it
would
be
up
to
the
community
to
determine
within
its
ccnr's
how
it
how
it
does
or
does
not
address
it.
N
How
is
that
different
from
somebody
buying
a
piece
of
property
in
the
city
of
San
Clemente
when
they
know
there's
a
municipal
code
that
exists
in
the
state
hasn't
passed,
Senate
bill
nine,
but
yet
they
are
affected.
How
is
that
property
right
affected,
but
the
HOA
property
right
is
not
affected
because
I
think
the
state
it
does
apply
somebody
up
until
like
it
could
split
their
lot
if
they
wanted
yeah.
O
I
know
I,
think
I'm
agreeing
with
what
you're
saying
I
think
yeah.
So
for
adus
for
a
comparison,
the
state
has
specifically
come
in
and
passed
a
civil
code
section
that
says:
hey
ccnr
is
regardless
of
what
you
say.
These
are
the
rules
for
for
adus
with
nhoas.
That
has
not
happened
within
the
context
of
sb9,
so
that's
the
the
so
anyways
yeah
sb9
does
apply
in
those
communities.
But
if
a
city,
or
rather,
if
a
community
itself
decided
to
self-contract
around
it,
that'd
be
an
option
for
an
HOA
to
consider,
but
to.
O
N
O
Under
and
under
sb9,
so
as
I've
said,
the
it
has
to
be
the
most,
it
can
deviate
from
50
50
is
60.
40.
and
state
law
says
that
the
smallest
lot
can
be
after
the
split
is
1200
square
feet.
N
Well,
my
only
comment
is
that
sb9
causes
me
to
have
an
anaphylactic
reaction,
and
you
know
at
some
point
somebody's
going
to
sue
the
state,
because
this
is
like
property
rights
and
things
that
are
set
up
to
where,
if
you
buy
something
all
of
a
sudden,
your
neighborhood
can
shift
because
the
state
says
that
it
can.
N
You
know
I
I,
don't
really
like
to
vote
Yes
when
I
have
a
gun.
You
know
pointed
at
my
temple,
so
well.
I
think
we
probably
have
to
approve
this
because
there's
penalties.
If
we
don't
but
again,
that's
an
Avenue
to
bring
about
litigation,
but
we
would
probably
also
not
lose,
but
we
would
hurt
while
we'd
fight.
C
So
Commissioners
I
and
commissioner
kakin
that's
a
great
point
that
you're
making
in
the
interest
of
informing
the
commission
about
their
Opera
options
related
to
state
laws.
We
already
have
an
ordinance
on
the
books,
so
we've
already
adopted
a
version
of
this.
C
This
version
makes
some
some
small
clarifications
to
what
was
adopted
in
the
urgency
ordinance,
but
adds
a
a
lot
of
other
regulations,
objective
standards
that
that
go
beyond
what
the
minimum
is
required
by
the
state,
not
not
so
much
that
it's
that
it
it
does
not
comply
with
the
poll
at
the
state
housing
policies,
but
it
it
these
standards.
These
objective
standards
specifically
are
geared
to
reducing
the
potential
impact
of
this
type
of
development
in
a
single-family
zone.
C
So,
if
the
let's
say
the
urgency
ordinance
never
got
adopted,
and
we
were,
we
were
back
at
the
beginning.
If
the
city
did
not
adopt
something
like
this,
the
state
would
tell
us
tell
staff
how
we're
supposed
to
do
it.
C
G
You
know
significant
amount
of
time
going
through
every
aspect
of
that
ordinance
and
and
looking
at
ways
that
we
could,
as
you
say,
clarify
so
that
the
impact
would
be
significantly
reduced
and
we
considered
not
just
the
sort
of
character
of
the
ordinance,
but
also
we
looked
at
our
city
and
to
see
which
properties
might
be
impacted
and,
as
commissioner
Crandall
mentioned,
there
are
very
very
few
that
would
even
you
know
get
to
that
point,
but
the
ones
that
could
I
believe
that
that
you
know
we
did
a
pretty
good
job
of
putting
in
here
requirements,
they're
going
to
make
the
kind
of
things
that
you're
talking
about
not
possible
and
yeah.
N
Can
find
an
exception
I'm
just
saying
that
it
is
possible
if
you
have
a
large
company
come
in
and
say
you
take
my
lot
like
up
into
leg
and
they
buy
it
for
2
million
and
they
got
the
money
to
put
in.
You
know
the
split,
and
then
they
got
four
units
that
they're
going
to
charge
like
four
thousand
dollars.
You
know
to
live
in
these
four
units:
that's
20!
That's
20
grand
a
month,
that's
200
200
and
some
odd
thousand
dollars
a
month.
I
mean
a
year.
N
You
take
10
years,
there's
10
million
it's,
so
it
really
kind
of
depends
on
the
rate
of
return.
How
soon
they
want
their
investment.
But
it's
there's
no
question
that
in
15
years,
depending
on
the
type
of
construction,
what
they
put
up,
they
could
return.
I
mean
somebody
like
Berkshire,
Hathaway
could
turn
around
and
do
it
and
unfortunately,
that's
who's
doing
a
lot
of
the
adus
Sarah.
Could
you.
K
J
I
wanted
to
her
to
address
while
you're
thinking
of
this
item
yeah
the
owner,
the
lot
owner
requirements,
yeah.
I
I
was
gonna.
Would
you
review
that
real
quick
yeah
commissioner,
so
I
want
like
part
of
the
Apple
acquirements
under
for
1650
under
lot
split?
It
says
individual
Property,
Owners
means
natural
person
holding
a
title
individually,
and
then
you
go
to
under
does
not
include
any
corporations
LLCs
LP
C
S
corporation.
So
there
is
language
in
here
that
deters
companies
from
coming
in
and
taking
over
single-family
lots
and
redeveloping
it's
intended
for
property
owners
with
a
single
family
lot
that
want
to
take.
N
I
O
Yeah
the
state
law
specifically
says,
as
Sarah
said,
that
the
these
have
to
be
used
as
long-term
rentals.
They
can't
be
vacation
rentals,
they
can't
be
short-term
rentals
and
then
also
to
state
law
specifically
prohibits,
and
the
city's
ordinance
reflects
the
prohibition
that,
if
you
say,
I,
move
and
I
buy
your
lot
and
then
I
buy
the
one
next
door.
I
can't
lot
split
both
of
them.
I
mean
it
looks
at
the
owner
and
they
can't
they
can't
split
in
adjacent
property.
So
I
know
that
there's
routinely
sometimes
legitimate
concerns
about
you
know.
O
Just
suddenly
a
domino
effect
and-
and
there
are
some
limited
state
law-
allows
the
city
to
impose
which
this
ordinant
does
about
prohibiting
an
owner
of
adjacent
Lots
from
splitting
both
of
them.
B
C
Commission,
chair
McCann,
just
one
thing
just
remember:
we
haven't
opened
a
public
hearing,
yeah.
A
A
Thank
you,
yeah
I,
consider
we're
still
in
the
question
asking
staff
phase
and
then
we'll
yeah
open
the
public
hearing.
I
have
a
few
questions
on
the
front
setbacks.
It
says
front
setbacks
shall
be
30
feet,
shouldn't
it
shouldn't
the
setback
match.
Whatever
the
zone
to
setback
of
that
zone
is
I
kind
of
thought.
We
had
talked
about
that
and.
C
C
Issue
here
on
a
lot
that
used
to
have
one
primary
dwelling,
allowing
for
one
what
we
would
call
a
single
housekeeping
unit
to
now
have
two
in
a
single-family
zone
is
going
to
create
twice
the
potential
intensity
at
you
know
from
this
trade,
and
so
an
additional
setback
which
is
allowed
by
state
law
would
mitigate
what
what
what
would
be
the
increase
of
having
one
one,
one
single
family
unit
at
20
feet
away
from
the
front
property
line
to
now
having
two
from
the
same
distance
since
there's
now
two
that
could
be
right
right
there
pulling
that
back.
C
I
C
B
A
G
C
Looked
at
that
earlier
today
and
I
think
we
agree
with
with
that
we're
talking
about
a
replacement
of
trees
that
that
match
the
diameter
of
the
tree
that
is
being
removed
so
that
it
you
can
replace
one
large
mature
tree
with
a
number
of
smaller
trees.
That
together
would
have
the
same
diameter
okay
rather
than
having
people
replace
one
large
mature
tree
with
another,
possibly
very
expensive,
large,
mature
or.
C
I
A
A
For
example,
if
someone
has
a
Triplex
or
fourplex,
they
don't
have
four
sewer
lines
running
out
to
the
main
that
it
joins
and
and
they
have
one
Sewer
Lateral,
because
if
the
way
this
is
written
and
someone
builds
a
bunch
of
units
on
you're
going
to
have,
you
know
four
Street
cuts
for
sewer
four
Street
cuts
for
water
I
mean
it's
gonna
kind
of
really
cut
up
the
street,
which
then
becomes
a
maintenance
issue,
and
my
suggestion
would
be
that
or
just
maybe
take
that
that
whole
sentence
out
I
I,
don't
think
that's
necessary,
but.
A
On
a
lot
one
per
okay,
one
per
each
prime,
this
says
each
primary
drawing
on
a
lot,
maybe
we
should
say
each
lot
must
have
its
own
direct
utility
connection
rather
than
each
primary
dwelling
unit.
I
Okay,
so
just
to
confirm
for
the
lot
split
under
title
1650,
we
want
to
remove
the
each
primary
dwelling
unit
to
have
its
own
utility.
A
K
A
And
I
guess
my
comments
would
be
would
rather
than
try
and
would
reflect
in
that
two
unit
as
well,
because
the
language
is
basically
the
same
right
so
like
if
we're
adding
the
word
combined
on
the
tree
diameters
and
if
we're
taking
out
this
here.
That
would
also
reflect
in
the
two
unit
language.
Yes,.
A
And
then
I
think
this
is
my
last
comment:
yeah
on
fire
hazard
mitigation
measures,
so
it's
number
12
a
little
I
says
so
this
is
if
a
lot
is
in
a
very
high
fire
zone
which
I
look
at
the
maps
and
that
a
lot
of
the
city
is
you'd,
be
surprised
at
what
is
which
you
didn't
think
it
is,
it
is,
it
says,
must
have
direct
access
to
a
public
right-of-way
with
a
paved
Street,
with
the
width
of
at
least
40
feet.
A
That
40
feet
is
that
there's,
probably
very
very
few
if
any
residential
streets
in
the
city
that
are
40
feet,
wide
I
went
out
and
measured
mine.
My
street
is
25
foot
wide,
curb
to
curb
I,
measured
a
couple.
Others
near
me,
one
another
one's
25
one's
22.
curb
to
curb
this
just
seems
kind
of
punitive
because
it
doesn't
seem
to
me
like
the
restrictions,
for
these.
Things
should
be
tougher
than
if
someone
was
to
build
a
residential
just
a
straight
up,
single-family
home
on
a
lot.
A
You
know
it
ought
to
have
kind
of
generically
the
same
conditions.
Not
many
would
say:
okay.
Well,
you
can't
build
a
house
on
I,
just
think.
That's
unnecessary
I
looked
up
OCFA
because
it
was
maybe
mentioned
that
well
that
came
from
OCFA
yeah.
Well,
actually,
it
says
in
their
development
it
says
20.
A
A
20
foot,
width
or
a
one-way
Road
has
to
be
12
feet
wide,
so
they
were,
they
had
things
about
the
weight
that
needed
to
support
certain
weight,
but
anyway,
I
would
suggest
that
that
should
be
20
like
what
I
see
in
OCFA
I.
Don't
know.
If
there's
any
other
support
on
the
commission.
A
I
Together-
and
that
was
the
language
that
was
provided
if
the
Commissioners
would
like
to
change
that
or
maybe
have
staff
check
with
OCFA
and
see
what
their
requirements
are
so.
C
K
C
Guidelines
are
for
urban
lot
splits,
and
so,
when
we're
talking
about
increasing
the
density
of
existing
development
development,
that
was
already
reviewed
by
OCFA
once
especially
in
the
very
high
fire
severity
Zone,
and
now
we're
talking
about
increasing
density
when
they
reviewed
this
with
with
us.
This
is
what
they
were.
They
were
good
with.
C
It's
going
to
be
most
of
the
area
west
or
east
of
the
five
freeway
is
definitely
most
a
lot
of
Rancho
San
Clemente.
A
lot
of
a
lot
of
Forester
Ranch
is
is
within
it.
So.
C
A
Okay,
maybe
we
should
open
the
public
hearing.
E
O
Yeah,
it's
a
ministerial
requirement
they
have
in
the
box
is
either
checked
or
it's
not
if
you're
in
a
very
high
fire
hazard,
severity,
Zone,
okay,.
E
And,
and
this
just
curious
somebody
checks
and
makes
sure
there's
no
mortgage
interest
on
every
property.
That's
yes!.
I
So
part
of
correct
so
part
of
the
application
process,
as
Ryan
stated
that
it
would
be
a
basically
like
a
checklist
saying
that
and
they
would
have
to
also
sign
various
affidavits
stating
that
what
the
information
they
provided.
The
city
is
accurate
and
true
and.
O
In
commissioner
under
I
think
exactly
what
you're
saying
on
page,
it's
c1b
on
the
first
page
of
lot
split,
there's
a
requirement
that
any
person
with
a
mortgage
interest
and
the
lot
to
please
split
signs
and
application,
indicating
they
consent
to
the
project.
So
if
the
bank
says
no
or
whoever
holds
the
mortgage,
isn't
on
board
with
the
lot
split,
then
that's
that's
a
basis
to
deny
yeah.
A
Okay
I,
let's
open
the
public
hearing,
is
there
any
members
of
the
public
that
would
like
to
speak
on
this
issue?
Seeing
none
I'll
close
the
public
hearing.
O
Chair
I
did
have
one
clarification
for
the
for
the
commission.
I
know
there
was
discussion
of
strikeout
when
we're
speaking
to
the
utilities
right,
and
so,
if
we
go
to
the
two
unit
project
ordinance
I'm,
looking
at
page
25
of
the
clean
version,
it
would
be
Little
T
little
I.
O
Wonder,
okay,
so
if
we
strike
primary
dwelling
on
the
lot
within
the
context
of
a
two
unit
project
that
could
cause
confusion,
because
someone
might
do
a
two
unit
project,
but
not
a
lot
split.
O
A
C
Example,
for
this
section,
I
really
think
that
the
intent
here
is
that
every
unit
has
basic
direct
metering
and
Direct
Control
shut
off
shutoff
valves
Etc
for
their
utility
connections,
rather
than
providing
for,
like,
let's
say,
a
primary
dwelling
with
a
junior
Adu
within
it
and
that
Junior
Adu
does
not
have
its
own
electric
panel.
N
Might
also
mean
for
sewer
that,
instead
of
going
to
the
Sewer
under
the
house,
it's
got
to
connect
directly
to
a
sewer
line
that
goes
straight
out
to
the
street,
because
that's
the
two
people
that
doing
adus
the
most
convenient
would
have
been
to
go
right
to
the
house
to
connect
to
the
Sewer.
You
know
to
the
house,
but
they
had
to
go
out
and
find
a
straight
shot
and
then
they
could
hook
into
the
lateral,
but
they
couldn't
go
to
the
house.
C
C
It's
gonna
you're
gonna,
be
locked
into
basically
two
800
square
foot
primary
dwelling
units
on
on
each
of
the
resulting
Lots,
but
you
could
do
the
two
unit
projects
and
then
come
in
later
and
do
an
urban
lot
split
and
keeping
language
like
this
in
here
is
going
to
ensure
that
the
urban
lot
split
it
that
we're
not.
There
aren't,
like
utilities,
just
kind
of
willy-nilly
all
over
the
place,
and
then
somebody
comes
in
and
wants
to
split
the
lot.
And
now
it's
like,
oh
well,
no,
now
you
need
now.
A
A
C
And
I
understand
you
know
having
having
one
street
connection,
that
and
and
having
things
Branch.
You
know
off
of
that
one
connection,
but
I
I
think
what
we're
talking
about
is
like
on
this
example
here
on
the
far
left.
If,
if,
if
they
didn't
do
an
urban
lot
split
first
and
they
just
did
the
two
the
two
unit
projects,
they
could
come
up
with
four
dwelling
units,
they
would
have
they.
C
J
Is
there
and
Adam
I
don't
know
how
this
would
work
if
somebody
wanted
to
condom
map
those
two
units
on
that
one
lot.
A
J
That
condo
maps
are
through
City,
Council
I,
believe
we.
J
O
J
O
A
little
I
I,
yeah
condo
map
airspace
divisions
and
common
interest
developments
aren't
permitted
on
a
lot
that's
created
from
under
the
mod
split.
C
So
to
answer
your
question,
chair,
McCann
staff
would
be
fine
with
how
you're
proposing
this
language
be
changed
for
as
long
as
our
legal
counsel,
Mr
Steger
is
comfortable
with
page
25
and
how
that
how
each
primary
dwelling
unit
on
the
lot
must
have
its
own
direct
utility
connection
to
the
utility
service
provider
is
addressed
or
clarified
to
be
consistent
with
the
urban
lot
split
version.
O
I
mean
sp9
doesn't
like
if
you
control
F
for
the
word
utility
in
sb9,
it's
not
there.
So
there
there
is
our
the
city's
requirements.
If
any
on
that
front
just
need
to
be
objective,
so
I
would
just
say
if
we,
if
the
commission
wants
to
suggest
striking
I,
you
know
we
make
sure
that
you
know
the
rest
of
the
doc.
You
know
there
are
any
dominoes
in
effect
with
whether
or
not
that
impacts.
O
You
know
two
three,
four
five
and
six
so
I
want
to
take
a
moment
to
just
make
sure
that
we
weren't
leaving
a
hole
somewhere
here.
C
I,
don't
believe
I,
don't
I,
don't
believe
that
we
do.
There
may
be
some
very
old
ones,
but
yeah
that
has
not
come
up
very
often,
and
we
do
not.
We
do
not
allow
them
now,
nor
have
we
allowed
them
for
I
think
a
substantial
amount
of
time
so
long
that
there
wouldn't
be
any
surviving
yeah.
It's
funny.
A
H
L
A
G
Think
it's
fine,
if
they've
already,
if
ocfa's
already
looked
at
it
well,
if
we
want
to
be,
if
we
want
to
open
it
up,
I
think
we
we
shouldn't
be
specifying
widths
of
streets.
We
should.
We
should
refer
to
the
OCFA
standards,
which
would
include
all
of
them.
If
we're
going
to
make
a
change,
all
right,
I,
don't
think
it
changed
necessary.
A
N
A
C
So
this
ordinance
was
initially
reviewed
by
our
development
management.
Team
and
OCFA
has
a
representative
on
that
internal
review
review
team.
So
when,
in
our
discussions
with
them,
they
had
already
worked
with
other
cities
on
these
types
of
regulations,
what
was
proposed
here
was
consistent
with
or
or
what
was
what
is
proposed
here
and
what
is
already
codified
is
consistent
with
some
of
the
direction
that
they've
provided
to
other
cities
who
actually
came
up
with
the
draft
language,
I
I,
don't
I'm
I'm,
not
aware
I.
H
H
Cities
the
point
is,
though,
I
thought
it's
kind
of
a
collaborative
thing
in
the
sense
that
they're
trying
to
cover
all
bases
and,
to
some
degree
it's
trying
to
provide
more
protection
for
the
city
than
that
than
someone
trying
to
split
a
lot.
That's
what
this
is
is
more
in
favor
of
the
city
so
I
when
I
saw
the
situations
I.
H
G
E
A
Okay,
any
more
discussion
on
this
or
should
we
take
a
motion?
Are
we
in
discussion?
Oh
yeah,
sorry,
did
we
close
up
public
hearing.
J
You
know
this
is
one
of
those
ones,
I
think
at
design
review.
We
spent
a
lot
of
time
on
verbiage
and
whatnot
with
Sarah
and
I.
Think
that
was
all
trained
up.
J
And
BBK
I
I
have
a
hard
time
making
some
of
the
findings,
but
I
know
I'm
bound
to
make
them
so
I'm
going
to
say
it
if
I
was
to
approve
this,
it's
going
to
be
under
protest
or
whatever
I
don't
know,
since
we're
only
giving
a
recommendation
that
folds,
no
water
but
I
have
one
other
thing
that
for
everybody
to
think
about
when
we
get
to
health
safety
and
Welfare.
J
This
whole
concept
of
taking
lots
that
are
built
for
families
and
butchering
them
to
make
them
800
square
foot
units
for
single
individuals
or
a
couple
that
aren't
worth
adorned
for
raising
a
family
in
I
think
that's
hurting
the
whole
Fabric
and
health
safety
and
Welfare
of
those
neighborhoods
excellent
point,
and
it
really
bothers
me
that
it's
a
this
whole
thing
by
the
state
of
taking
over
and
thinking
density
density
density
is
the
Cure
All
to
all
problems.
It
causes
other
problems
that
it
could
chase
out.
J
The
families
out
of
some
of
these
neighborhoods
that
were
founded
and
based
on
families
so
can
I
make
that
finding
have
to.
But
that's
also
under
protest
that
and
only
because
I'm
being
forced
to
do
it,
so
the
recommendation
that
I
would
hope
the
council
looks
at
is
we're
not
doing
this
because
we
think
it's
appropriate
I
think
we've
done
the
best
we
can
with
it,
but
I
think
there's
some
grounds
that
the
Phoebe
and
K
can
look
at
for
health,
safety
and
Welfare.
J
J
So
that
that's
my
position
on
this
thing
and
for
what
it's
worth
we
got
to
do
it
because
I'd
hate
to
see
our
housing
element,
probably
even
our
Coastal
program,
at
risk.
By
not
doing
this
because
that's
the
Leverage,
the
state
has
over
us
they're
going
to
pound
us
over
the
head
with
it.
C
And
just
to
clarify
on
that
point,
it
actually
wouldn't
put
us
in
Jeopardy.
Wouldn't
it
no
and
the
reason
it
wouldn't
is
because
the
states
requiring
us
to
do
these
actions,
but
under
the
state's
guidelines
and
the
state
regulations
of
sb9,
it
would
be
much
easier
to
do
these
Urban
loss
bloods
in
these
two
unit
projects.
What
this
ordinance
does.
Is
it
tightens
up
the
state's
regulations
to
try
to
try
to
maintain
as
much
Public
Safety,
health
and
safety
as
as.
F
O
The
yes,
the
state
had
issues
with
any
jurisdictions,
Espionage
ordinance,
I,
believe
the
the
AG
has
been
active
in
some
communities
up
in
in
the
Bay
Area,
with
with
sharing
their
displeasure
and
and
telling
them
what
they
thought
wasn't
compliant
with
the
law.
O
I
mean
there
certainly
are
state
agencies
that
that
are
monitoring
what
cities
are
doing,
but
I
think
to
the
broader
point
you
know,
sb9
says
you
know
we
have
the
statute
and
then
it
gives
cities
an
on-ramp
and
some
puts
up
the
bumpers,
but
it
gives
the
city
some
Lane
to
bowling
if
you
will
and
by
not
by
not
having
a
local
ordinance
that
you
know
implements
sp9
and
in
the
manner
that
the
city
wants
to
do.
O
If
you're,
just
going
by
the
statute,
I
mean
it's
a
couple
pages
and
it
you
know
it
doesn't
have
height
limits,
it
doesn't
have
setback
limits,
and
so
this
is,
you
know,
implementing
the
law
in
the
way
that
state
law
allows
cities
to
do
so
where
they
want
to
exercise
local
discretion.
So
it's
it's.
It's
playing
within
the
yard
that
that
state
law
lets
us
still
play
in.
If
you
will
yeah
I.
H
I
just
want
to
reinforce
you
know,
because
we
went
through
this
at
the
last
meeting
too,
with
the
similar
thing,
and
so
when
this
came
before
design,
review
and
I
did
my
homework
and
I
compared
this
to
our
emergency
ordinance
to
this,
this
is
so
much
better.
We
need
to
adopt
it.
What
I
would
do
because
I
think
Mr
Crandall's
point
about
public
safety
and
Welfare
is
a
good
one,
but
this
might
be
a
reach,
but
I
think
we
bifurcate
it.
We
do.
H
We
approve
this
and
if
the
staff,
if
the
commission
agrees
and
if
the
staff
agrees,
we
should
send
an
a
memorandum
to
the
council,
stating
that
we
have
a
position
that
these
state
laws
are
in
fact
detrimental
to
our
health
safety
and
Welfare
to
and
that
the
objectives
of
the
state
are
at
somewhat
at
odds
for
our
community
standards
and
that
we
implore
the
city
to
work
with
the
California
League
of
cities
to
make
our
opinion
known.
And
we
can
the
points
that
commissioner
Crandall
made
I
think
are
excellent.
H
And
we,
if
you
guys,
could
memorialize
that.
Then
the
council
would
have
a
separate
recommendation
from
us
to
consider
directing
staff.
Yes,
let's
direct
BBK
in
our
state
and
our
city
manager
to
go
to
the
California
League
of
cities
with
the
to
get
them
to
represent
the
whole
group
of
us.
That
feel
the
same
way
and
and
and
push
that
at
that
level,
with
the
specif
with
this
idea
that
it
is
in
violation
of
our
own
Community
standards
and
does
jeopardize
our
community's
health
safety
and
I
think
we
bifurcate
it.
H
And
then
that
way
we
make
our
statement.
Our
objections
and
our
concerns
are
known
with
some
actual
findings
that
are,
we
could
have
that
could
have
some
kind
of
legal
standing
and
and
an
effectiveness
at
at
the
with
the
California
League
and
then
but
approve
this
tonight,
because
it
just
dramatically
improves
our
position,
especially
where
sb9
is
silent
and
we
now
have
teeth
to
push
back.
So
we
need
to
do
that.
So
those
are
my
that's
my
feeling
on
it.
C
So
not
knowing
who
will
make
a
motion
and
I
will
say
before
emotion
is
made.
We
would
just
like
to
clarify
all
of
the
changes
that
we've
discussed
here
tonight,
but
is,
if
emotion
is
made
with
a
memorandum
of
that
type.
There's
a
couple
ways
we
can
do
that.
We
could
simply
provide
that
direct
that
that
request
from
the
Planning
Commission
as
part
of
the
recommendation
to
Council
in
the
staff
report,
we
could
draft
up
a
memorandum
on
behalf
of
the
Planning
Commission.
O
Be
yeah,
it
could
be
as
simpler
as
involved
as
we
wanted.
I
mean
if
the
commission
wants
to.
You
know,
recommend
approval
of
the
ordinance
with
the
changes
that
we've
specified
on
the
record
and
then
also
encourage
the
city
council
to
pursue.
You
know,
advocacy
opportunities
to
you
know,
work
with
other
Statewide
or
Regional
cities
to
you
know,
explore
legislative
changes
or
different
different
ways.
We
could
do
it
if
you
wanted
to
Adam.
C
I
would
recommend
that
a
memorandum
summarizing
these
these
recommendations
for
I'll
call
it
legislative
follow-up,
be
included
with
the
staff
report
and
the
planning
commission's
recommendations
of
the
city
council.
So
it's
a
standalone
document,
but
it
accompanies
the
topic
at
hand,
which
is
the
sb9.
C
B
O
Go
quick
here
so
for
two
unit
projects,
the
front
setback
would
be
30
feet
for
replacement
plants
within
the
Landscaping
standards
on
both
tuna
projects
absorber
lot,
splits.
We
want
the
trunk
diameter.
You
want
people
to
allow
them
to
be
combined
right
and
then,
with
the
utilities
for
urban
lot.
Splits
commission
recommends
that
just
saying
each
lot
must
have
its
own
direct
utility
connection
and
then
within
two
unit
projects
we
would
strike
a
little
Roman
at
TI
and
then
everything
before
the
first
comma
and
tii.
C
That
limitation
would
require
all
all
units
to
be
30
feet
back.
Okay,.
A
Okay,
by
the
way
for
discussion
purposes,
I
wholeheartedly
agree
with
all
of
the
points
raised
by
my
fellow
Commissioners
I
think
you've
raised
some
excellent
points
and
I'll
entertain
a
motion.
H
Adam
was
that
last
time
was
that
sb2
that
we
just
we
were
going
through
that
with
all
the
other
standards
that
we
were
had
to
change,
and
we
had
two
people
object
to
it.
Is
that
sb2,
or
was
it
also
nine
I'm,
trying
to
tie
it
all
together
in
that
bifurcated
recommendation
memorandum?
Commissioner?.
B
I
That
was
for
the
housing
element
to
implement
various
State
Housing
state
laws.
H
Okay,
so
I
will
move
staff
recommend.
Can
you
hear
me
yeah
staff
recommendations,
a
one
determined
that
the
project
is
exempt
from
SQL
to
recommend
that
the
city
council
approve
an
ordinance
to
amend
the
chapter
16.50
State
mandated
subdivisions
and
chapter
17.86.
H
State
mandated
residential
projects,
which
I
guess
is
in
capsulated
and
resolution
of
the
Planning
Commission
22-032.
H
I
would
add
to
that
most
this
motion
that
we
as
a
Planning
Commission
number
Point
number
three
request:
staff
to
draft
a
memorandum
for
the
city
council
from
the
chair
of
the
Planning
Commission,
expressing
our
concerns
about
state
law
overreach
on
our
impacting
our
general
plan
in
a
way
that
puts
our
public
health
and
safety
and
Welfare
at
risk
with
pushing
high
density,
residential
State
housing
laws,
and
that
the
chair
review
that
letter
or
memorandum
prior
to
it
being
submitted
to
the
council.
A
H
H
H
So
you
guys
know
when
I
was
doing
my
search,
I
created
I,
don't
even
know
how
many
pages
that
document
was
where
I
was
cutting
and
pasting
different
things
and
I
gave
it
to
her
and
she
went
through
it
all
and
said
you
know
what
we
got
this
one.
We
got
this
one.
Oh,
we
don't
have
this
one.
It
was
great.
She
did
a
very
thorough
job.
She
did.
K
H
It
I
will
move
that
we
adjourn
to
the
next
regular
meeting
of
the
Planning
Commission
to
be
held.
Wednesday
December,
7th
2022
at
6
pm
at
the
San
Clemente
City
Hall,
council
chambers.