►
From YouTube: General Plan Virtual Office Hours – February 20, 2021
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Like
everybody's
coming
in
good
morning,
everybody
thank
you
for
joining
us
for
our
third
general
plan
office
hour
session.
We
are
offering
today
for
the
first
time
in
an
office
hours
meeting,
we
are
offering
spanish
translation
services.
A
That
says,
I
think
it
says,
interpretation
or
translation
if
you
click
on
that,
there's
a
choice
of
english
or
spanish.
So
if
you
click
on
spanish,
it
will
switch
you
over
to
the
spanish
channel
of
the
meeting,
and
you
will
hear
the
spanish
interpretation
so
feel
free
to
do
that.
I
also
need
to
start
the
auto
transcription.
A
Sorry,
I
missed
that.
So
we
do
have
the
transcription
going
now,
so
I
will
turn
it
over
to
matt.
B
Hey
good
morning,
everyone
nice
to
see
you
all
welcome
to
the
to
the
meeting
this
morning.
I
I'd
like
to
actually
just
start,
maybe
by
going
through
a
quick
introductions
and
then
we're
going
to
take
questions.
I'd
like
to
ask
that
those
who
have
not
had
joined
the
meeting
before
or
who
have
not
asked
a
question
before
really
be
able
to
ask
their
questions.
Some
of
you
have
asked
questions
previously.
We're
gonna,
you
know,
go,
go
through
other
questions.
B
First
and
again,
the
purpose
of
the
meeting
today
is
not
for
you
to
provide
us
comments
on
the
alternatives.
It's
for
you
to
understand
what
is
in
the
alternatives
and
why
they
are
there
so
that
you
can
comment
on
the
alternatives
in
the
survey,
and
that
is
the
way
that
we
will
really
the
way
that
we
will
get
comments.
In
addition,
you
can
make
comments
in
the
briefing
book
and
on
the
maps.
Those
are
really
the
only
ways,
so
we
are
not
summarizing
these
meetings.
We
are
not.
B
These
meetings
are
not
a
representation
of
the
community.
It's
really
the
survey
that
we're
using
for
that.
B
So
I
will
start
out
for
those
who
don't
know
me,
and
I
do
recognize
a
lot
of
you-
I'm
matt
ramey
with
raymond
associates
and
we're
the
lead
consultant
on
the
general
plan
working
with
our
wonderful
partners
at
the
city.
Let
me
turn
it
over
we'll
sort
of
go
around
here.
I'm
just
gonna
go
by
base
to
who
I
see
so
michael.
Why
don't
you
go
next.
B
A
Hi
kristen
rice
senior
planner,
with
the
planning
division
also
on
the
gp
team,
just
want
to
take
one
second,
really,
quick,
michael.
How
can
I
get
the.
D
A
B
B
No
and
we
do
have,
as
as
michael
had
said,
we
do
have
two
wonderful
interpreters
today,
anna
and
lourdes,
so
you
may
be
seeing
see
them
if
they
are
in
the
spanish
channel.
Clint
go
ahead
and
introduce
yourself.
B
Welcome
sylvana
sylvana
did
I
pronounce
it
right.
A
E
B
Great
I
mean
I,
I
will
say
that
some
of
you
have
said
you're
a
concerned
citizen.
I
would
say,
if
you're
here
on
a
saturday
morning,
that
I
don't
know
of
concern,
but
but
definitely
an
interested
citizen
who's
willing
to
take
their
saturday
morning
to
to
learn
more
about
the
general
plan.
Let's
see,
kristin.
B
B
Okay,
you're
on
mute,
kristen.
B
Okay,
sorry,
we
you're
on
mute
so
we'll
come
back
to
you.
Where's
han.
D
Are
hey?
I
didn't
realize
I
was
unmute,
I
I
am
a
concerned
citizen.
I
have
lived
here
since
89
in
my
house
and
I
love
it
here.
I
love
the
way
things
are
and
I'm
very
concerned
with
the
direction
that
you're
going,
and
so
that's
why
I'm
here
today
and
to
get
further
educated
but
probably
also
equally
annoyed.
D
Good
morning,
I've
been
resident
of
thousand
oaks
for
about
27
years,
I'm
a
volunteer
with
citizens,
climate
lobby,
chalice,
climate
action
team
and
the
kaneho
climate
coalition,
and
I
want
to
see
a
really
strong
cap
and
I
want
to
see
the
qualities
that
we
moved
here
for
preserved.
Thank
you.
A
Phil
rittenhouse
hi,
I'm
phil
rittenhouse,
I'm
a
15-year
thousand
oaks
resident
and
I
live
near
the
orchard
wetlands
as
it's
named,
and
have
concerns
about
the
development
and
questions
about
the
development
of
that
area.
B
Okay,
let's
see
dan,
oh
sorry,
gordon
yeah.
A
Hi
I'm
well.
I
moved
here
first
in
1963
when
I
was
18
years
old
and
but
I've
lived
here
continuously
the
last
21
years
and
at
newburgh
park
and
I'm
very
concerned
about
the
sustainability
of
our
city
and
what
it's
going
to
look
like
25
years
from
now
for
my
grandkids
and
I
I
really
think
that
we
got
to
do
something
so
that
people
that
work
in
a
thousand
oaks
can
also
live
in
a
thousand
oaks.
A
I
think
that's
a
just
a
a
climate
issue,
because
we've
got
to
cut
down
on
the
all
the
commuting.
So
anyhow,
I'm
also
involved
with
the
canelo
climate
coalition
and
the
chalice
climate
action
team.
B
Okay,
great,
let's
see.
A
Cat
hi
good
morning,
my
name
is
kat,
I'm
a
resident
of
thousand
oaks,
I'm
pretty
new.
Here.
I've
lived
in
ventura
county
for
a
couple
of
years,
but
just
moved
to
to
not
too
long
ago-
and
I
I
love
it
here
and
I'm
a
member
of
the
kaneho
climate
coalition
and
climate
reality
project
and
just
a
lover
of
all
things.
Outdoors.
B
A
Hi,
my
name
is
brian
fletcher,
I'm
a
member
of
various
different
community
organizations,
including
chalice
and
democratic
club,
I'm
here
to
get
more
informed,
and
I
want
to
express
appreciation
for
making
these
more
available
to
more
people
with
the
translation
and
the
subtitles.
Thank
you
for
your
efforts.
B
You're
welcome,
let's
see
dan
you're
back.
B
B
Okay,
so
and
everyone
that's
a
good
good
point.
Thanks
karen
at
the
bottom
left-hand
corner
of
your
screen,
you'll
see
a
video
button
and
a
mute
button.
You
can
go
ahead
and
turn
on
your
video
if,
if
you're,
muted,
you'll
see
a
little
red
icon
in
the
left
hand
corner
that
with
a
the
mute
button
with
the
red
line
through
it
and
same
thing
with
the
video,
if
you
click
on
those,
you
will
be
able
to
turn
on
your
microphone
and
your
video
and
turn
them
off.
B
A
Off
good
morning,
my
name's
phil
hoff-
I've
lived
here
a
little
less
than
10
years
before
that
spent
the
25
prior
up
in
the
santa
clarita
valley,
where
growth
was
spectacular
and
not
always
good
and
always
been
concerned
about
land
use
issues.
I
served
on
the
land
use
committee
and
then
as
a
town
councilman
in
castaic,
during
its
growth
period
too,
and
I'm
concerned
about
seeing
some
the
same
mistakes
made.
A
There
are
going
to
be
made
here
with
this
edict
from
the
state
to
basically
throw
out
all
the
good
planning
we've
had
for
50
years
and
say:
okay,
here's
here's
another
chunk
you're
going
to
have
to
accommodate,
including
in
areas
that
were
not
designed
for
that.
So
this
is
a,
I
think,
the
biggest
challenge
yeah
in
the
thousand
oaks
area
that
we've
seen
since
incorporation.
B
Thank
you,
craig.
B
Okay,
manfred.
A
Yeah
good
morning,
I've
been
living
here
since
1985..
I
am
concerned
about
making
this
place
affordable,
so
my
daughter
can
move
back
here.
They
live
in
the
big
valley,
so
no
keem
valley
and
they
wanted
to
move
back
here.
But
it's
going
to
be
very
difficult
for
them
to
require
the
house
here.
D
B
Good
morning,
nick
okay,
so
then
steve,
I
believe
you
are
last.
F
Okay,
thanks
very
much,
my
questions
involve
loss
of
control
over.
B
Sorry,
steve
for
right
now
we're
just
introdu
introducing
yourselves
and
then
we'll
get
into
questions.
F
Yeah
I
mean
I'm
interested
in
loss
of
city
control
over
zoning
and
things
like
penalties,
etc,
and
the
state's
agenda
enforcing
us
to
do
things
that
I
don't
think
are
good
for
thousand
oaks
been
here
since
1987.
B
Thank
you
all
right,
so
I
what
I
like
to
do
is
just
now.
Essentially,
as
I
said
this
is
this
is
about
question
and
answer.
We
will
answer
whatever
questions
we
can.
I
know
some
of
you
are
really
concerned
about
about
what
the
state
is
asking
the
city
and
all
cities
to
do,
based
on
the
fact
that
growth
hasn't
happened
in
the
state
and
it's
caused
lots
of
affordable
housing
issues.
B
I
can
answer
those
questions
to
the
extent
that
I
can,
but
but
again
it's
the
state.
So
the
other
point
I
want
to
make
is
that
I
know
people
are
concerned
about
housing
element
and
housing
element
numbers,
but
what
we
have
stressed
from
the
very
beginning
is
that
this
process
is
about
creating
and
and
developing
a
vision
for
the
future
of
the
city
that
are
based
on
issues
that
we
have
heard
from
residents.
B
So
there's
a
we've
been
working
on
this
general
plan
process
and
doing
community
engagement
around
this
for
a
year
and
a
half
we've
had
thousands
of
people
participate
in
the
process.
One
thing
is
very
clear
to
me
in
just
from
my
observation:
not
as
a
resident
or
an
employee
of
the
city
is
that
people
love
thousand
oaks.
Everyone
loves
the
the
quality
of
life,
the
natural
beauty,
the
open
space,
the
city's
done
an
amazing
job.
B
With
that,
however,
there
is,
there
are
differences
of
opinion
about
things
that
were
brought
up
by
by
some
here,
which
is
how
can
people?
How
can
the
city
evolve
over
time
to
allow
more
people
to
live
here
and
others?
Who
don't
want
to
see
much
change
at
all
and
like
what's
here
now
and
don't
want
to
see
any
change?
B
So
there's
you
know
again
from
I'm
just
being
completely
honest
with
folks
that,
from
my
observation,
there's
there
are
differences
of
opinion
in
in
the
community,
and
all
of
the
opinions
are
clearly
are
clearly
valid.
There's
130
000
people
who
live
in
the
city,
so,
of
course
balancing
that
is
going
to
be
a
tough
challenge
for
the
city
council.
Our
job
is
to
do
what
we
can
to
accurately
represent
what
people
have
told
us
through
the
through
the
alternatives,
present
concepts,
which
is
where
we
are
now
get
reactions
to
those.
B
If
some
people
find
some
of
them,
that
they
don't
like
it.
That's
why
we're
doing
this.
So
this
is
what
we
want
to
hear.
We
want
to
hear
things
you
like
and
things
you
don't
like
again.
The
way
that
we
are
getting
our
comments
is
not
through
forums
such
as
this.
These
are
not
going
to
be
summarized.
That
said,
you
know
12
people
don't
like
something,
and
you
know
seven
people
do
like
something,
or
vice
versa,
we're
not
doing
that.
B
It's
all
going
to
go
through
the
surveys
and
the
online
comments,
primarily
the
surveys,
but
really
also
online
comments
on
the
maps
and
the
briefing
book
that
can
be
it
can
be
found
online.
B
So
with
that,
why
don't
I
open
it
up
to
questions?
I
would
like
to
start
some
of
you
have
been
involved
in
some
of
these
meetings
and
asked
questions
previously.
I
would
like,
in
fairness
to
those
who
haven't
been
here
and
haven't,
had
a
chance
to
ask
questions.
B
I'd
really
like
to
start
with
with
folks
who
haven't
had
a
participated,
and
then
we
can
circle
back
and
I
hope
that's,
okay,
I'm
not
trying
to
I'm
just
trying
to
make
this
as
equitable,
as
I
can
with
air
time
here.
So
we
do
want
to
make
sure
we
have
time
for
everyone,
though
okay
so
steve,
it
sounded
like
you
had
a
question
to
start
with.
You
were
you
were
chomping
at
the
bit
ready
to
ask
your
questions.
So,
let's,
let's
start
with
you
and.
B
F
Matt,
I
asked
the
general
planning
team
in
august
about
the
methodology
behind
the
arena
allocations
and
what
can
out
of
connect
socal
the
whole
number
thing
and
then-
and
they
say
you
you
guys-
were
fine
with
the
allocation,
the
methodology
behind
the
arena
allocation,
etc.
Despite
the
big
increase
shortly
thereafter,
I
found
two
studies,
one
done
by
freddie
mac.
F
That
said,
instead
of
and
the
three
and
a
half
million
that
gavin
promised
new
units
that
gavin
promised
in
2016
2018
or
even
what
you
said,
I
think
yesterday,
2.4
million
freddie
mac
put
our
housing
needed
820
000.,
similarly
and
sort
of
at
the
same
time,
embarcadero
institute,
gab
layton,
looked
at
the
calculations
done
by
department
of
finance
and
housing
and
community
development
found
that
they
had
double
counted.
I'm
sure
you're,
aware
of
this
had
double
counted.
F
You
know
the
need.
The
vacancy
factors
were
screwy.
They
used
the
state
of
new
york
for
their
methodology,
which
was
ridiculous
and
that
basically,
they
overstated
the
need
by
about
60
percent.
F
So,
instead
of
the
numbers
that
we've
got,
my
understanding
is
that
our
actual
need
is
probably
more
in
the
million
range
than
the
two
and
a
half
or
three
2.4
or
three
and
a
half
million
that
we
see
around
and
third
thing
was
south
pasadena
sort
of
captured.
The
essence
of
it
is
that
gavin
is
in
too
deep
and
is
in
too
much
other
problems
to
allow
hcd
to
go
back
on
this
anyway.
B
So
mike
mike,
I
have
two
responses
to
that.
One
is
that
this
is
about
developing
a
vision
for
the
community,
based
on
what
we
have
heard
from
what
community
some
community
members
have
said
they
want,
and
so
you
can,
you
know,
agree
or
disagree
with
with
what
other
what
your
fellow
citizens
have
said.
The
other
is
that
we,
the
arena
numbers,
are
the
arena
numbers,
whether
you
believe
they
are
overstated.
B
Whether
there
are
studies
saying
that
they're
overstated,
they
are
the
numbers
that
jurisdictions
have
to
follow
in
order
in
for
planning,
and
there
really
isn't
anything
we
can't
just
say
we
don't
want
to
do
it.
There
are
penalties
associated
with
that
that
the
city
can
get
into.
But
but
essentially
you
know,
your
your
research
is
is
good.
There
are
certainly
folks
who
have
identified
a
whole
range
of
things.
Those
studies
are
just
some
of
the
studies
that
are
out
there,
but
again
in.
F
The
end
it
doesn't
in
the
end,
the
core
penalty
is
the
hundred
thousand
dollars
a
month
that
came
out
of,
I
think
ab101.
That's
one
of
them
is
so.
F
A
B
If
the
city
council
decides
not
to
follow
the
arena
and
the
city
attorney,
then
we
follow
that
direction.
Our
direction
that
we
have
is
that
we
follow
the
arena
and
until
that
time
we
don't
follow
the
rebound.
B
B
It's
like
my
hands
are
tied
like
I
could.
I
could
agree
or
disagree
with
you,
but
it
kind
of
doesn't
matter
because
what
I
say
doesn't
matter
with
this
and
it's
a
this
is
the
direction
that
we've
been
given
that
the
state
has
given
to
the
the
to
skag
southern
california
association
of
governments
who
was
then
distributed.
People
have
have
tried
to
oppose
it.
At
the
state
level,
they've
tried
to
talk
that
the
arena
allocation
doesn't
make
sense
based
on
the
allocation
numbers.
B
The
reality
is,
there's
a
major
there's,
a
major
housing
crisis
in
the
state,
and
we
all
know
that
and
and
it's
about
numbers
it's
not
my
area.
This
is
not
no.
F
I
I
appreciate
it.
I
just
wanted
to
I
caught
the
drift
that
you're
aware
of
all
of
these
issues,
and
you
know
I
just
don't
want
the
residents
of
the
city
to
think
that
this
is
something
that
is
so
cast
in
our
or
is
so
thoroughly
metal
methodologically
sound
that
it
shouldn't
be
challenged
at
some
point
through
the
legislative
process
at
some
time
in
the
future,
because
it's
you
know
it
does
impact
what
we're
doing.
F
I
think
60s
over
60
cities
challenged
it
and
you
know
that's
a
lot
out
of
190
members,
but
to
your
point
I
do
I
do
appreciate
the
points
that
we've
done
thus
far.
My
only
other
comment
would
be
that
the
things
that
are
so
tall,
the
four
five
six
seven
and
the
sky
scraper
things
seem
like
more
like
lost
leaders
that
we
just
stick
with
the
2-3
deal
like
we've
got
in
the
299
project
and
things
like
that.
F
B
And,
and
if
I
could,
if
I
could
give
better
direction,
I
I
would
again,
you
know
we
we,
as
general
plan
consultants,
can
only
do
so
much
with
this
got
it.
Thank
you
good
research.
You've
done,
though
good
you
are
clearly
well
informed,
which
is
great
all
right
cat.
I
see
that
you
have
your
hand
up.
D
A
Hi,
thank
you
so
in
similar
to
what
steve
was
asking,
I
understand
the
need
for
the
three
reena.
D
D
D
B
Sb
330,
which
is
a
state
law,
says
that
you
can't
down.
You
can't
reduce
the
overall
capacity
in
in
a
city
or
in
an
area
without
without
changing
it,
increasing
it
in
another
area,.
A
B
Now
again,
you
you
being
someone
who's
interested
in
climate.
You
know,
I
think
there
are
ways
that
you
that
the
city
can
evolve
a
couple
of
things
one.
The
city
can
evolve
over
time,
the
the
biggest
the
the
biggest
benefits
for
climate.
B
If
you
look
at
the
research
are
about
walkability
reduced
driving,
so
there's
benefits
for
slightly
more
compact
development,
where
people
drive
less
and
walk
more.
So
there's
there's
a
significant
amount
of
research
out
there.
On
that
you
know
again.
The
other
is
really
about
the
type
of
community
that
you
want
to
create
here
in
in
thousand
oaks,
whether
you
know
we,
we
did
a
sort
of
a
a
reallocation
just
overall
to
kind
of
get
at
the
vision
based
on
what
we
heard
from
the
community.
B
That's
what
we're
seeking
feedback
on
at
this
point.
The
other
thing
is
that
the
city
has
had
a
capacity
of
81
124
for
many
many
many
many
years
and
you're
only
at
48
000.,
so
the
pace
of
development
happens
incredibly
slow
due
to
a
variety
of
things,
including
absorption
rates.
The
individual
financial
decisions
of
property
owners
there's
not
really
much
land.
B
That's
completely
vacant
in
the
city
so-
and
this
is
a
really
important
point
to
understand,
which
is
that
that
if
someone
owns
a
property-
and
they
have
it's
a
single-story
retail
use,
for
example-
and
it's
it's
leased
and
there's
money
coming
in,
there's,
not
a
lot
of
incentive
for
them
to
convert
that
to
another
use
to
actually
increase
the
amount
of
development
to
you
know
to
do
a
three
or
four
story:
mixed
use,
building,
they're,
just
there
just
isn't
the
incentive.
Why
take
the
risk
when
you're
making
money
on
that?
B
And
so
what
we
find
is
that,
while
eight
percent
of
the
city
is
included
in
what,
in
these
discussion
areas
less
than
eight
percent,
a
good
percentage
of
that
is
actually
existing
residential
areas,
which
we
don't
think
are
going
to
change.
Another
good
percentage
of
that
is
actually
the
sort
of
industrial
office
uses,
which
we
have
questions
about,
whether
the
intensification
of
those
can
change,
and
then
the
last
you
know
one
to
two
percent
is
really
these
other
areas
that
we're
talking
about
which
has
right.
B
Now
those
are
our
retail
areas,
many
of
which
are
dying
and
the
city
has
way
more
retail
than
it
needs,
and
so
I
think
a
question
for
you
all
is:
what
do
you
want
to
do
with
those
retail
areas?
Thousand
oaks,
mall
thousand
oaks,
boulevard
areas
in
rancho,
canejo?
That's
a
question!
That's
a
that's
a
real
question
about
whether
you
want
to
just
kind
of
keep
them
that
way
or
whether
you
want
to
allow
something
else
in
the
city
and
that's
a
long-winded
answer
to
your
question.
B
But
but
I
really
really
want
to
encourage
folks
to
think
about
what
are
the
needs
in
the
community
and
what
is
the
vision
and
how
you
can
achieve
that
and
let
the
numbers
come
later.
A
I
don't
know
if
it's
a
question.
I
didn't
see
on
my
screen
how
to
put
a
hand
up
so
I
apologize.
You
can
jump.
B
A
In
all
right,
thank
you.
I
think
you
answered
my
question
about
what
those
penalties
would
be,
but
maybe
you
can
clarify
that
when
I'm
done
yapping
here,
you
know
we
might
choose
to
pay
the
penalty
as
a
policy
decision
to
preserve
our
quality
of
life
here.
But
that's
not
really
a
discussion
for
this,
but
if
you
can
identify
those
penalties,
then
maybe
that
can
be
taken
offline.
The
other
thing
that
I
really
and
you
just
touched
on
it
and
it
kind
of
hits
a
nerve.
A
I
don't
have
data
for
this,
but
I
keep
reading
about
how
we
supposedly
have
an
oversupply
of
retail
and
near
me.
I've
seen
quite
a
few
businesses
say
you
know
what
they
they
increased,
my
rent
30.
So
I'm
going
somewhere
else.
I
don't
know
if
we
really
have
too
much
retail
or
if
those
who
own
the
retail
property
are
just
asking.
So
much
people
are
going
out
of
business.
A
You
know
in
in
a
slow
economy
to
be
asking
for.
Rent
increases,
makes
no
sense,
and
I
think
supply
and
demand,
if
left
to
its
own,
would
resolve
that.
A
It's
it's
almost
as
if
these
retailers
want
to
preserve
their
profitability,
regardless
of
it,
so
they
push
for
more
population
and
for
something
to
you
know
this
to
create
this
myth
that
there's
too
much
and
that's
why
they're
not
making
a
profit.
I
I
really
do
see
greed
behind
that.
When
I
see
businesses
that
have
been
here
for
25
years
say
I've
got
to
get
out
of
here,
because
I
can't
afford
the
rent
anymore.
Why
is
the
rent
going
up
if
we
have
a
tremendous
oversupply
of
retail.
A
B
I
can't
I
haven't
heard
that
I
haven't
heard
that
rent
is
going
up.
I
can
tell
you
what
I've
seen
anecdotally
and
I
can
tell
you
what
I
know
across
the
state
which
is
the
state
of
retail
in
city
after
city.
You
know
you,
can
you
can
do
your
own
research
on
that?
I
again,
I
you
know
it's
a
choice
in
terms
of
the
the
penalties,
I'm
I'm
not
a
housing
expert.
It's
not
it's
only
one
of
my
areas.
It's
not!
B
I
don't
go
into
the
detail
of
that.
So
if
the
city
chooses
to
have
a
to
accept
whatever
penalties
there
are
with
the
housing
element,
the
city
can
do
that.
That
is
not.
That
is
a
political
decision
that
is,
as
they
say,
way
above
my
pay
grade,
but
but
as
a
as
a
planning
professional,
it
is
not
something
that
I
recommend
to
do.
C
Matt,
if
I
may,
this
is
a
ian
holtz
and
with
the
the
city
I
mean,
I
I
think
in
addition
to
those
fines,
you
know
basically
by
not
having
a
certified
housing
element.
The
city
loses
out
on
a
lot
of
grant
money
that
is
used,
such
as
for
transportation
funds.
So
a
lot
of
cip
projects
for
upkeep
of
the
roads
are
dependent
on
those
grants,
as
well
as
our
ongoing,
affordable
housing
programs
are
all
funded
by
cdbg,
home
grant
funds
and
other
federal
grant
and
state
funds.
C
So
those
are
essentially
all
at
jeopardy,
and
those
are,
you
know,
basically,
money
that
the
city
uses
for
ongoing
programs,
so
those
would
be
at
risk
as
well.
I
just
like
to
add
that,
so
you
know
some
of
those
things
that
I
don't
want
to
say
are
taken
for
granted,
but
are
just
not
really
well
known
or
seen
would
be
at
jeopardy.
B
Thanks
ian
okay,
manfred.
A
Good
morning
again,
I
have
the
general
plan
2045
in
front
of
me.
I've
been
through
it
a
little
more
on
a
precursory
basis,
but
the
one
thing
I'm
puzzled
over
is
on
page
55,
where
the
alternatives
are
being
compared.
A
B
So
first
I
want
to
correct
a
a
potential
misconception.
This
is
not
the
general
plan
2045.
This
is
the
alternatives.
Briefing
book.
You
said
it's
general
plan
2045,
so
just
I
don't
know
if
you
meant
it
that
way,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
for
those
who
are
on
that.
It
is
not
the
general
plan
that
is
that
is
that.
B
It
is
the
title
of
the
overall
project,
but
it
says
alternatives
to
briefing
book.
Okay,
so.
A
B
Again,
there's
a
lot.
The
point
is:
there's
a
lot
more
to
come
and
a
lot
of
decisions
that
need
to
be
made
in
the
general
plan
that
have
goals
and
policies
the
all
of
the
alternatives,
one
of
the
the
founding
aspects
and
this
this
gets
back
to
what
cat's
question
was
the
general
plan.
Alternatives
all
have
the
exact
same
number
of
housing
units
in
them,
and
so
the
question
is:
where
are
those
housing
units
and
what
is
the
form
of
them?
B
So
our
right
now
there
are
more
there's
more
capacity
for
growth
and
again,
this
is
what
we're
talking
about
we're
only
talking
about
capacity
for
growth,
so
the
81
000
is
not
a
mandate
to
build
that.
It's
just
the
overall
capacity.
That
is
the
number
in
the
current
general
plan,
and
that
is
the
number
in
all
three
alternatives.
B
Measure
e
says
that
you
can't
increase
the
number
of
housing
units,
and
so
we've
really
stuck
with
that
and
sv330
says
that
you
can't
reduce
capacity.
So
essentially,
our
number
that
we're
hitting
that
we're
trying
to
hit
is
81
124,
ish
housing
units
we're
not
going
to
get
exact,
but
that's
really
the
number
that
we're
trying
to
do
so.
A
B
No,
no!
No!
No!
So
let
me
yeah
sorry
this.
It
is
very
confusing.
Let
me
give
an
example.
So
there
is
an
area
there
are
areas
in
the
existing
general
plan
that
are
zoned
and
have
a
general
plan
designation,
which
is
what's
allowed
to
be
built
of
a
range
of
between
four
and
a
half
units
per
acre
and
15
units
per
acre.
Some
of
those
areas
are
built
at
five
units,
an
acre,
so
essentially
that
means
that
those
areas
have
a
capacity
that
additional
housing
could
go
in.
B
We
heard
throughout
the
process
that
one
of
the
things
that
one
of
the
the
aspects
that
people
really
love
is
the
is
the
res
the
character
of
the
residential
neighborhoods,
and
you
don't
want
to
see
that
change
right
now,
and
this
is
with
some
recent
changes
in
state
law.
If
you
are
have
a
house
on,
you
know
on
essentially
a
quarter
acre
lot
or
a
fifth
of
an
acre
lot.
You
can
build
up
to
15
units,
an
acre
on
that
and
that's
just
allowed
by
law
at
this
point.
B
So
what
we've
done
is
because
there's
capacity
in
certain
areas,
there's
there's
we've
taken
some
of
that
that
capacity
and
moved
that
to
the
corridors,
to
allow
for
multi-family
housing
to
increase
the
supply
of
multi-family
housing,
which
translates
to
housing
that
is
more
affordable
and,
in
some
instances,
capital
a
affordable
housing
which
is
deed,
restricted,
affordable
housing.
A
A
Yes,
I've
got
a
couple.
Questions,
hopefully,
will
be
quick.
First
of
all,
matt,
I
think
in
the
last
meeting
someone
requested
that
you
post
a
timeline
of
the
process.
Has
that
been
done?
No
okay.
Is
that
going
to
be
done
fairly
soon.
B
We
we
are,
we
got
a
lot
going
on
in
the
background.
We
will
be
posting
that
it
may
not
be
for
a
few
more
a
few
more
weeks
with
this.
A
I
think,
for
at
least
for
myself,
who's
not
familiar
with
how
the
government
works.
These
the
way
that
you
folks
discuss
when
things
will
happen
is
kind
of
confusing
for
myself.
I'm
used
to
you
know
a
deadline
of
the
15th
of
the
month
or
the
end
of
the
month,
and
you
know
having
general
guidelines
that
something
will
happen
roughly
in
a
certain
month
or
october
or
may
april,
or
something
is
a
little
confusing
to
me.
So
that
would
be
very
helpful.
I
appreciate
that
I
had
a
question
again.
A
I
live
on
the
area
known
as
the
natomas,
I'm
sorry
the
orchard.
Wetlands.
I
had
a
question
with
the
current
zoning
that
I
guess
allows
about
200
units
to
be
built
in
that
area.
A
Putting
aside
the
fact
that
there
are
difficulties
building
in
that
area,
with
that
number,
could
the
county
meet
the
state
requirement.
A
Because
each
of
the
three
options
includes
changing
to
mixed
uni
mix
zoning
and
I
think
increasing
the
number
of
units
to
be
put
in
that
area.
My
question
is:
if
it
were
to
stay
as
is,
would
would
the
necessary
number
of
units
be
met
for
the
next
round
of
the
planning.
A
B
Their
part
of
the
arena
is
affordable,
affordability,
which
is
based
on
density,
so
that
that
200
would
count
for
some
of
the
overall
housing
units,
but
it
wouldn't
count
for
a
lot
of
them.
It
could
contribute
to
the
number,
but
not,
but
it
wouldn't
address
at
all.
What's
called
the
the
very
low
or
the
low,
or
I
think,
even
the
moderate
income
units.
B
A
B
To
say
so,
you
know
this.
The
arena
is
is
about
identifying
sites
at
different
densities
to
to
allow
the
potential
for
housing
to
happen,
and
so
you
have
to
look
at
it
based
on
on
density,
which
is
you
have
to
for
the
very
low
and
the
low
you
have
to
allow
30
units
an
acre,
it
doesn't
mean
that's
what's
going
to
be
built,
but
that's
what
the
the
general
plan
of
zoning
needs
to
say.
B
So,
if
it's
zoned-
and
I
don't
know
what
it
is,
you
know
I
don't
know
if
the
single
family
is
four
units-
an
acre
four
and
a
half
units-
an
acre,
then
that
would
not
count
for
those
numbers,
but
for
the
moderate
and
above
moderate
it
would
count.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
My
last
question
is:
has
an
environmental
impact
study
been
done
on
changing
the
zoning
of
that
area?.
B
Now,
even
if
the
general
plan
designation
changes,
even
if
it
doesn't
there's
going
to
be
significant
environmental
studies,
probably
associated
with
that,
given
what's
going
on
on
the
site
of
the
the
the
the
flood,
the
flood
easement,
which
is
in
the
area
as
well
as
the
fact
that
some
of
it
is
in
a
flood
zone,
so
there
there's
a-
I
mean.
You
know
this
is
the
timeline.
I
know
that
you
were
talking
about,
but
just
because
the
general
plan
puts
a
color
on
a
map
and
allows
for
something.
B
There
are
other
factors
that
go
in
to
whether
that
can
be
built
there
overall
or
what
the
amount
they
can
actually
be
built
there
and
then
there's
a
whole
other
process
of
development
approvals.
That
needs
to
happen
as
part
of
that.
B
Okay.
So
again
it
just
just
and
this
this
goes
for
every
parcel
in
the
city,
just
because
it
allows
something
it
doesn't
mean
that
it
it's
going
to
be
built
and
that
the
timeline
of
all
of
this
development-
even
so
we
have
this
number
of
you-
know
81
000,
which
I
don't
think
anyone
believes
will
ever
be
met
in
this
city.
B
In
fact,
you
know
I
you
so
then
that's
full,
what's
called
full
build-out
or
theoretical
build-out,
and
then
there's
a
whole
part
that
we're
gonna
do
later,
which
is
growth,
projections
based
on
economic
forecasts,
and
so
that
number,
which
is
what
we
expect
by
2045,
is
much
much
smaller
than
what
the
full
build
out
allows.
B
Okay,
thanks
phil,
let's
see
dan
or
dan's
right-hand
person,
laurie.
D
D
So
you
have
all
of
these
characteristics
in
your
plan
of
what
you
say
or
the
characteristics
that
you
want.
Whichever
plan
is
chosen
to
have,
and
one
of
them
is
protect.
Single-Family
neighborhoods.
D
And
that
they're
that
they
should
be
built
at
similar
density
and
scale
to
what
is
there
and
so
you're?
Talking
about
that,
and
you
call
all
these
other
neighborhoods
legal
family
neighborhoods
areas
of
stability.
But
we
live
by
the
former
wetlands,
the
off
of
orchard,
that.
A
D
These
homes
were
built
in
1979
right
across
from
us.
Those
homes
were
built
in
the
60s.
This
should
be
considered
an
area
of
stability,
and
we
should
be
getting
this
the
same
consideration
that
all
the
other
single-family
homes
areas
are
getting
and
yet
now,
instead
of
two
to
six
homes,
possibly
being
built
right
behind
my
house,
you
could
put
30
to
45.
D
B
So
first
it's
this
is
actually
out
for
discussion.
Second,
is
that
the
ideas
for
this
came
from
through
the
public
process?
That's
been
going
on
for
a
year
and
a
half
where
we
asked
people
to
put
to
identify
different
concepts
for
or
what
for
where
new
development
could
go,
and
that
area
was
identified
as
a
range
of
things
which
is
ultimately,
I
think
what
would
what
could
happen
on
that
under
the
designation?
B
We
mentioned
this
before
of
you
know
that
the
challenge
that
we
have
right
now
is
it's
one
parcel
which
is
30
some
odd
acres,
and
you
know,
I
think,
the
that
you
know
we're
hearing
comments
and
we're,
of
course,
taking
those
into
into
consideration.
So
you
know
there's
no
answer
and
no
decision
made
on
this,
but
but
I
certainly
could
see
a
a
potential.
B
D
So
I
did
have
a
comment
on
over
the
last
year
and
a
half
you
keep
referring
to
that
that
over
the
last
year
and
a
half
that
there's
been
all
of
this,
I
think
you've
called
it
robust
community
involvement,
there's
how
many
people
live
in
the
city
of
thousand
oaks.
Is
it
150
140
000
people,
130
yeah,
and
I
believe
that
what
I
read
was
that
125
people
were
part
of
your
survey.
That
is
how
you.
B
We
can
go
in,
and
lord
kristen
did
said
this
before
we
can.
You
know
talk
about
the
the
engagement
we've
done
kristin.
We
should
really
just
document
all
of
that
we
had
notices
sent
to
everybody
in
the
city
about
the
general
plan
process.
Starting
we've
had
me,
there's
been
lots
of
meetings,
but
the
point
I
think
is
that
it's
not
too
late
and
you're
here
and
you're
providing
comments,
because
no
decisions
have
been
made
on
this.
So.
B
Lori,
I
was,
I
was
not
finished,
so
if
you
have
something
that
you
that
you're
concerned
about
that
is,
this
is
absolutely
the
time
and
we're
glad
that
that
you
know
we
wish
that
you
had
somehow
found
out
about
it
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
but
this
is
actually
written
for
the
most
part,
the
first
time
we're
talking
about
specific
parcels,
besides
just
stickers,
on
a
map.
So
this
is
really
the
time
so
you're
not
too
late.
B
So
again,
we're
glad
that
you
and
others
are
here
and
talking
about
this.
But
but
it
really
is,
you
know
we
would
encourage
you
to
put
your
comments
on
the
in
the
in
the
survey.
So
we
get
those.
D
That
was
a
part
of
making
the
decision,
and
so
when
you
substantiate
your
what's
in
this
plan
and
and
shoot
somebody
down
and
say
well,
what
you're
saying
is
going
against
what
what
the
rest
of
the
community
wants.
That's
why
I
bring
that
up.
B
B
So
is
questions
about
this,
so
you
have
the
history
now
of
how
it
got
to
it
of
where
we
are,
and
it's
perfectly
you
know
that
we
we
don't
foresee
that
and
I'll
just
say
this-
that
that
any
one
of
the
individual
alternatives
is
going
to
be
selected,
as
is
there's
going
to
be
changes.
This
is
for
discussion,
it's
for
concept,
it's
for,
and-
and
so
you
know
that's
what
this
is
for.
So
the
fact
that
that
you're,
actually
saying
you
don't
like
something
is,
is
exactly
what
the
process
is
for
great.
D
So
I
do
have
a
question,
though,
so
is
it
possible?
This
parcel
is
zoned
for
r1
right
now,
which
is
residential,
family
homes,
8
000
square
feet
or
larger?
D
Is
it
possible
to
divide
a
parcel
into
different
kinds
of
use
like
this
be
left
this
zoning
and
this
be
be
changed
to
mix
use.
B
Yeah
yeah
absolutely,
and
in
fact
you
know,
I
mean
we've
again
we're
hearing
more
now
than
we
had
heard
before,
and
so
you
know
I
I
will
tell
you
as
a
as
a
you
know,
a
planning
professional
like
I
understand
the
reaction
of
like
oh,
my
god.
This
is
all
of
a
sudden
you're
saying
that
there's
gonna,
be
you
know
three
and
four-story
buildings
right
next
to
my
single
family
homes
and
that
that's
there's,
there's
a
fear
about
that.
B
I
get
it
so
and
I
you
know,
but
so
I
I
actually
you
know,
I
think
that,
as
these
conversations
are
evolving
you
know,
maybe
we
there
can
be
a
sidebar
to
just
sort
of
brainstorm
on
how
how
something
could
look?
That's
that's
where
exactly
what
you
just
said,
which
is
stratifications
and
its
subdivide
so
that
it
it
goes
from.
You
know
single
family
to
maybe
townhome
so
that,
as
you
move
over,
you
know
towards
the
commercial
areas
that
it
could
be
mixed
use
right.
D
B
B
So
I
actually
so
I
actually
karen
did
you
get
my
email
karen
wilburn.
E
No,
I,
when
did
you
send
it.
B
Yeah,
so
so
anyway,
so
so
karen
has
been.
This
is
the
third
time
karen's
been
on
and
and
she's
been.
You
know
hammering
this.
Why
did
you
do
this
in
here?
So,
like
I,
I
understand
people
being
upset.
I
understand
wanting
to
talk
about
this,
so
what
I,
what
I
proposed
to
karen
since
she
was
has
been
at
all
of
these
and
asking
questions
about
this
parcel.
Is
that
a
small
group
of
us
not?
B
We
can't
have
a
lot
of
people,
but
a
small
group
actually
think
about
the
concept
that
you
just
mentioned,
which
is
what
can
we
really
do
to
address
the
concerns
that
you
have
about?
What's
adjacent
to
your
neighborhood,
think
about
what
can
happen
on
the
site,
given
some
of
the
constraints
and
then
and
then,
but
also
think
about
some
of
the
the
benefits
the
city
can
get
of
having
a
30
plus
unit
a
30
plus
acre
parcel
that
can
help
meet
other
needs.
So
you
know
again,
this
is
a
really
unique
property.
B
It's
really
unique
to
have
this
and
you
know-
and
I
will
say
you
know
maybe
having
just
one
designation
on
it
right
now.
Doesn't
do
it
justice?
D
I
guess
what
we're
looking
for
is
some
kind
of
assurance
that
if
we
say
okay,
yeah
go
ahead
and
do
mixed
use
down
at
the
the
far
end,
which
is
closer
to
the
freeway.
That
might
make
some
sense,
even
if
we
agreed
with
that
the
way
that
it's
written
now
the
whole
thing
would
be
changed.
And
it's
like
right
writing
a
blank
check
and
then
totally.
B
Understand
no,
I
totally,
I
totally
understand
I
you
know
I
get
it
and
you
know
I
I
and
so
let
me
just
say,
there's
ways
of
like
a
parcel
like
that
we
can
do
split
designations,
so
we
don't
have
to
just
in
the
plan.
Put
one
designation
on
that
person.
We
can
do
multiple,
so
you
know
we
can
say
you
know
in
in
the
first
you
know
200
or
400
feet
it's
single
family
and,
and
we
can
put
numbers
growth
numbers
on
that
parcel.
We
can.
We
can
do
sketches
for
more
revision.
B
We
can
write
in
policies
what
we
want
there's
a
lot.
We
can
do
that
hasn't
been
done
yet
so
so
again
I
mean
you
know,
I
I
think
if
people
are
open
to
discussion
about
it,
I
think
it
might
be
worthwhile
to
to
have
that
conversation,
and
I
see
karen
like
quickly
trying
to
look
through
her
email
to
see.
If
she
got
that
email
from
me.
But-
and
I
did
you
did.
E
B
E
Very
definitely-
and
I
know
there
are
other
neighbors
in
my
phil
being
one
that
was
definitely
interested
in
looking
at
some
alternatives.
I.
E
Opinions
but
like
but
like.
B
E
B
You
know
because
I
think
you
know
I
know
I've
heard
the
concern
and
again
it's
a
unique
parcel
and
the
more
that
we
can
actually
begin
to
brainstorm
on
some
of
these
things
and
begin
to
you
know
solve
problems
before
we
get
to
the
end
of
the
year
of
this
alternative
phase.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
lot
better.
E
Would
we
be
able
to
maybe
expand
beyond
just
that
little
parcel
and
maybe
include
some
of
the
other
area
in
that
south
of
the
freeway
rancho
caneo
area,
because
there
are
some,
there
are
some
other
parts
like,
for
instance,
where
the
library
is
where
the
alternatives
are
talking
about
mixed
use,
and
things
like
that.
So
it's
it's.
It's
kind
of
like
that.
B
B
You
know
I'll
circle
back
with
with
michael
and
team,
just
for
the
for
logistically
how
that
can
work,
but
you
know
we're
this.
Is
this
this
parcel?
We
are.
We
are
honestly
hearing
more
about
than
others,
and
so
I
think
we
should
you
know
it's
and
it's
unique
and
karen
you
mentioned
this
before
you
know
it
is
the
largest
parcel
that
is
single
family
that
is
being
proposed.
B
You
know
currently
designated
a
single
family
that
is
being
proposed
for
intensification,
so
you
know
I
mean
it
does
warrant
further
conversation
and
I
don't
think
anyone's
opposed
to
that
at
all.
This
is
about
getting
to
getting
to
solutions
that
work
for
people.
A
Thank
you
for
having
me
on
a
saturday
morning.
I
I
don't
really
have
a
question
more,
so
I
want
to
thank
you
for
having
the
live,
transcript
and
the
spanish
translators,
and
that
was
nice
to
see
when
I
came
into
this
meeting
today.
The
question
I
have,
or
actually
I
just
want
to
reiterate
what
phil
said
that
word-
that
the
citizens
of
thousand
oaks
need
a
timeline.
E
So,
can
you
please
place
that
on
your
website,
even
if
it
might
have
need
to.
A
Have
some
flexibility?
I
really
do
think
that
would
help.
E
Us
get
organized.
Thank
you
so
much.
B
And-
and
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
phil
was
talking
about
previously
was
the
sort
of
the
timeline
of
how
development
occurs
from
general
plan
all
the
way
through
project.
That
was
part
of
the
previous
conversation
as
well.
E
A
A
I
mean
there
there
are
several
different
opportunities
in
the
process
to
rally
the
troops
and
get
involved,
and
one
of
those
is
right
now
this
very
moment,
so
I
wouldn't
wait
until
the
next
meeting
or
the
next
time
council
talks
about
it.
The
survey
is
out
for
you
to
comment
on
the
alternatives
now
and
if
you
want
to
get
with.
A
And
have
discussions
and
submit
the
survey.
Now
is
absolutely
the
time
to
do
that.
I
forgot
to
mention
at
the
beginning
of
the
meeting,
but
I'll
take
the
opportunity
to
do
it
now
that
the
deadline
for
the
survey
has
been
extended
two
weeks
from
march
first
to
march
15th,
to
give
everybody
a
little
more
time
and
because
we've
gotten
some
pretty
good,
pretty
good
momentum
going
right
now
with
people
responding
to
it.
So
we
don't
want
to
cut
that
off.
So.
A
Schedules
tend
to
change.
We
can't
nail
down
a
meeting
date
six
months
from
now,
because
we
just
things
are
too
fluid
to
plan
that
far
in
advance.
But
I
think
the
time
to
focus
on
making
your
voice
heard
and
advocating
for
what
you
want
is
is.
A
B
Is
your
opportunity
to
do
it
yeah,
but
to
to
carol
and
and
phil's
point
you
know,
I
think
we
we
do
have
some
things
on
the
website
about
schedule.
I
think
we
can
expand
that
a
little
bit
knowing
things
are
going
to
change,
and
I
will
tell
you
that
that
michael
and
I
have
spent
several
hours
over
the
last
few
days
talking
about
schedule
and
things
are
constantly
shifting
to
enable
more
community
engagement
throughout
the
process.
B
Okay,
let's
see
phil
hoff
off
that
I
pronounce
it.
I
got
your
name
last
name,
but
that
was
all
right.
No
one.
A
Pronounces
it
right
okay,
this
may
be
more
a
matter
of
providing
feedback
to
the
three
scenarios
that
were
put
in,
but
it's
kind
of
a
little
microcosm
of
overall.
What
I
think
is
an
issue,
so
I'm
near
the
area
of
the
dmv,
I
think
that's
everybody's
landmark
for
that
shopping
center
and
the
proposal
is
to
allow
what
was
called
medium
density
housing
there
in
two
of
the
three
alternatives.
A
And
if
you
look
at
the
maximum
numbers,
you
know
it's
some
pretty
scary
numbers
of
you
know
a
thousand
or
more
residents
and
my
what
strikes
me
about
that
is
that
we've
and
again
having
lived
in
the
san
fernando
and
the
santa
clarita
valley,
the
general
level
of
planning
out
here,
is
so
much
better.
It's
the
model
for
what
those
other
areas
wish
they
had.
So
I
don't
want
to
be
overly
negative,
but
I
also
don't
want
to
spoil
the
great
job
that's
been
done.
A
You
know:
we've
got
planning
for
transportation
and
services
and
schools
and
those
things
that
were
balanced
to
the
development
that
we
have.
And
now,
if
we
convert
a
bunch
of
retail
to
housing
that
doesn't
account
for
those
other
community
needs
that
those
new
residents
will
have.
So
it
feels
like
the
existing
residents
just
have
to
accept
a
diminishing
level
of
those
services
and.
A
Side
of
that
is,
if
that
commercial
area
is
converted
to
residential
the
next
closest
commercial
area
where
you
can
run.
Errands
is
several
miles
away,
so
we're
back
to
getting
into
our
cars
instead
of
walking
and
breaking.
It
feels
like
a
step
backwards.
Yeah.
B
Under
understood,
thank
you
yeah,
so
you
know
you're
you're,
talking
about
the
the
what
we're
calling
the
village
center
at
herbs
and
right,
yeah,
okay,
so
a
couple
of
things
with
that,
you
know.
I
completely
understand
one
of
the
other
aspects
that
actually
came
through
the
engagement
process.
Was
this
idea
of
sort
of
walkable,
neighborhoods
or
village
centers?
B
B
So
you
know
it
might
be,
it
could
be
a
situation
where
there's
a
yes
and
and
we've,
but
you
know
that
said:
we've
certainly
heard
mixed
things
from
folks
in
the
process
about
whether
some
of
these
commercial
areas
are
gonna,
you
know
whether
they
should
stay
as
commercial
or
whether
they
should
allow
some
housing,
whether
there
should
be
a
mix.
B
A
Yeah
and-
and
part
of
that
is
one
of
the
issues
I
can
see.
There
is
circulation.
It
really
only
has
access
on
harvard's.
There
is
a
right
turn
out
right
herbs,
but
you
really
can't
turn
that
into
a
major
intersection
to
handle
volume
yeah.
You
know
that
that's
an
example
of
we
have
a
pretty
good
balance
and
then
that
really
just
throws
a
big
imbalance
into
it
and
that
I'm
glad
to
hear
you're
considering
those
issues,
because
that's
what
can
make
or
break
that
sort
of
change.
B
Yeah
yeah,
I
mean,
I
think
you
know
the
the
it
is.
It
is
a
retail
area.
That's
that's
generally
working
right,
and
so
you
know,
I
think
that
you
know
if
I,
if
I
were
the
property
owner
there
there's
no
way,
I
would
actually
tear
everything
down
and
just
build
housing
there,
because
there's
a
risk
associated
with
that
right.
B
So,
but,
but
I
think
you
know,
your
point
is-
is
a
great
one,
which
is
that
we
want
to
make
sure
this
is
an
area
that
that
actually
serves
a
whole
wide
number
of
folks
and
to
lose
retail
in
this
area
to
lose.
Those
services
actually
has
an
impact
on
things
like
climate
and
access
and
neighborhood
quality.
B
Yeah:
okay,
let's
see
clint,
f
and
then
roseanne.
A
All
right,
so
I'm
wondering
if
thousand
oaks
can
pass
an
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
prior
to
approval
of
the
land
use
plans,
so
we
can
guarantee
that
most
new
housing
will
actually
be
affordable
and
then
I
also
want
to
know
what
is
the
process
for
adopting
an
iho
and
at
what
point
in
the
gpu
timeline?
Would
it
be
best
implemented.
B
Good
good
question,
so
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
just
to
make
sure
everyone
on
the
call
is
on
the
same
page
about
what
what
an
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
is.
It
is
an
ordinance
that
requires
a
percentage
of
the
housing
that
is
built
to
be
indeed
restricted,
affordable,
housing,
20
or
is
common
in
jurisdictions
throughout
the
state
15
to
20
percent,
and
it
would
they
can
specify
affordability
at
different
levels
of
affordability
from
extremely
low,
very
low,
low,
moderate
and
you
know,
moderate
incomes.
B
In
order
for
that
to
happen,
you
need
to
do
a
feasibility
study,
because
you
can't
do
an
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
that
essentially
prohibits
development
from
happening.
B
So
you
you
need
to
do
a
study
to
make
sure
that
that
you
act
the
projects
can
actually
still
proceed
and
that
it's
not
just
a
barrier,
it's
not
being
done
as
just
a
barrier
to
housing.
So
there's
a
financial
feasibility
study
that
needs
to
be
done
with
that.
B
Inclusionary
housing
ordinances
do
not
need
to
be
included
in
the
general
plan
for
essentially
the
development
that
happens
from
the
general
plan
to
include
inclusionary
housing.
I
understand
the
need
to
push
for
it,
however,
and
I'll
just
give
an
example.
We
we
worked
on
a
project
up
north
that
has
very
pro
affordable
housing.
They
have
rent
control.
B
The
general
plan
had
policies
to
promote
affordable
housing,
an
action
to
create
an
inclusionary
housing
ordinance,
and
then
it
was
an
implementation
from
that.
An
implementation
action
from
the
plan
to
do
the
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
and
really
because
the
pace
of
development
is
really
slow.
It
takes
several
years
to
even
just
get
to
project
approval
a
lot
of
times
that
all
of
the
projects
coming
through
are
going
to
be
subject
to
the
inclusionary
ordinance.
B
What
city
was
that
that
was
east
palo
alto,
there's
a
lot
of
communities
that
have
inclusionary
housing,
ordinances
and,
and
I'm
not
look
in
and
clint.
Let
me
just
sort
of
clarify:
I'm
not
saying
it's
a
bad
idea.
I'm
saying
that
you
don't
need
to
do
the
inclusionary
ordinance
before
the
general
plan
is
done
to
really
get
the
benefit
of
the
inclusionary
ordinance.
You
know
if
the
city
is
serious
about
it.
B
So
you
know,
and
even
you
know,
even
a
project
carter
that
goes
through
the
pre-app
now
is
not
going
to
be
approved
for
many
many
many
months.
C
So
matt,
if
I
excuse
me
matt,
if
I
may,
if
I'd
like
to
just
kind
of
add
to
that
clint,
you
know
we
did
look
at
trying
to
update
the
inclusionary
housing
ordinance.
However,
you
need
a
feasibility
analysis
and
a
fiscal
analysis
and
that's
based
on
the
parameters
that
are
currently
on
the
books
today,
and
you
know
the
fact
that
quite
honest,
the
zoning
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
high
density
zoning
and
the
projects
that
come
through
are
typically
asking
for
density
bonuses
and
so
forth.
C
If
we
did
a
study,
it
would
probably
be
a
very
low
number
and
the
thought
process
that
we
had
internally
as
far
as
doing
the
inclusionary
is:
let's
wait
to
see
what
the
outcome
of
the
general
plan
is,
because
if
we
introduce
new
land
use
categories
that
increase
capacity
or
the
zoning
capacity
in
certain
areas,
that
could
change
what
we
could
actually
ask
for
that
could
help
increase
and
bolster
up
what
we
could
ask
for
based
on
newer
parameters
so
anyways
that
was
part
of
the
process
that
we
had
thought
about.
Thanks.
B
Ian
and
you
know-
and
I
think
that
you
know-
I
don't
think
you
know-
I
think
if
the
community
wants
more
affordable
housing.
What
ian
had
just
said,
which
is
that
it
actually
as
much
as
I
know
some
people
don't
like
this.
It
is
tied
to
density
and
feasibility.
It
doesn't
mean
bigger
buildings.
You
can
have
smaller
units
within
the
same
size
building.
We
went
through
this
this
process.
B
Before
I
mean
you,
you
can
you
can
get
more
than
30
units
an
acre
in
a
50-foot
building
which
is
what's
allowed
now
with
smaller
unit
sizes,
so
you
can
have
the
same
building
form
with
more
units
and
then
get
and
and
because
you're
increasing
the
density
within
that
you
can,
then
it
makes
projects
more
feasible
and
then
you
can
essentially
extract
more
from
the
projects
for
affordable
housing.
B
Again,
you
all
are
getting
into
some
very
complicated
questions
and
very
sophisticated
questions
that
are,
you
know
somewhat
stretching
my
knowledge
as
a
planner.
B
Of
these
you
know
someone
who
does
this
a
lot,
so
I
I
commend
you
all,
but
you
know
bear
with
us
on
on
the
complexity
of
these
we're
trying
to
we're
trying
to
simplify
some
of
this
and
yet
maintain
the
robustness
of
the
complexity.
Can.
A
B
Okay,
so
part
of
it
is
now
through
the
alternatives.
There's
also
options
in
there
for
more
open-ended
comments
about
about
housing
and
the
and
the
alternatives,
and
so
you
can
certainly
use
it
there
as
well.
We
are
going
to
have
a
more
focused
meeting
on
the
housing
element
as
before,
as
when
it's
drafted,
you
know
you
can
always
again.
You
know,
write,
write
comments
just
overall
about
what
you
want
to
see
and
those
you
know
we
prefer
that
they
go
in
the
briefing
book.
B
There's
questions
about
affordability,
you
can
put
those
in
the
briefing
book
people
can
do
thumbs
up
that
they
like
them.
You
can
do
them
in
the
surveys
and
and
of
course,
if
you
do
kristin
doesn't
kristen
rice
doesn't
like
it
when
I
say
this,
but
you
know
if
you
send,
if
you
send
emails,
I'm
far
enough
away
from
her
that
I
can
say
this
and
not
get
in
a
lot
of
trouble
that
that
you
can
send
emails
and
we
will
get
them.
A
D
Sorry
about
that.
Thank
you.
Two
quick
two
questions.
One
is
really
quick.
I've
heard
different
people
say
different
things
about
accessory
dwelling
units
and
I
would
like
to
know
whether
or
not
they
count
towards
the
rhino
totals.
C
Yes,
I
mean
ultimately,
when
we
report
out
as
a
city
building
permits
issued
for
accessory
dwelling
units
definitely
count
towards
arena
numbers
and
the
state
is
now
starting
to
recognize,
and
I
don't
have
my
head
completely
wrapped
around
it,
but
you
are
able
to
categorize
those
in
certain
affordable
housing
categories,
whereas
typically
they
are
market
rate.
But
you
know
it's
hard
for
you
know,
making
a
single
family
property,
a
deed,
restricted,
affordable
type
housing
unit
in
the
backyard
so
anyways.
Yes,
they
do
count
towards
rena.
C
Now,
as
far
as
how
many
you
can
identify
that,
when
you
start
doing
your
site
inventory
you
you
do
not
pick
physical
sites,
you
basically
base
it
on
an
assumption
on
how
many
have
increased
over
the
years
as
far
as
their
production-
and
you
know
this
year-
we've
produced
a
lot
more
than
any
of
the
previous
years.
So
whatever
that
trend
is,
I
believe,
you're
able
to
use
those
assumptions
for
meeting
irina
in
the
housing
element.
B
D
B
A
great
it's
a
great
question:
you
know
I
will
say
there
are
cities
that
are
starting
to
actually
look
at
adus
and
try
and
create
affordability
programs
through
adus.
So
again,
sorry,
I'm
I'm
policy
walking
out
here.
Adu
is
an
accessory
dwelling
unit,
a
a
separate
unit,
either
attached
or
detached
from
a
single
family
home
yeah.
So
some
cities
are
actually
starting
to
look
at
how
you
can
provide
public
subsidies
to
create
affordable
adus.
C
And
actually,
if
I
I
may-
and
I
don't
know,
you
know
what
the
genesis
of
the
question
that
was
posed
to
you
roseanne,
but
I
think
there's
there's
confusion
with
adus,
because,
yes,
they
count
towards
rena,
but
they
don't
count
towards
density,
and
you
know
so.
When
you're
looking
at
the
land
use
map
and
the
densities
assigned
to
it,
you
look
at
a
single
family
neighborhood,
the
density
of
the
single-family
neighborhood
today,
unless
laws
change
do
not
count
those
adus
towards
density.
C
C
D
D
Okay,
so
phil,
when
we
had
our
meeting
on
wednesday,
you
went
over
numbers
of
units
in
the
arena
categories
that
had
been
approved
for
building
and
already
built,
and
you
went
through
them
way
too
quickly
for
me
to
catch
them.
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
tell
us
once
again
how
many
units
within
the
current
arena
cycle
have
been
approved
for
building
and
how
many
have
already
been
built
for
the
extremely
low,
very
low
low,
moderate
and
above
moderate
categories.
C
C
Overall,
for
the
last
eight
years
for
this
housing
cycle,
we
have
issued
705
building
permits.
So
when
you
report
for
rena,
it's
based
on
billing
permits
issued
so
there's
assumptions
that
they
are
completed
their
construction
to
some
point
so
for
the
year
2020,
which
is
part
of
that
705.
C
Oh
just
give
me
a
moment.
Let
me
pull
up
the
report
and
I
can
give
you
the
exact
numbers
on
the
affordability,
but
for
the
year
2020
we
issued
228
units
and
that's
just
from
memory.
C
And
this
report
by
the
way
will
be
going
to
council
on
march
16th.
It's
it's.
Typically,
it's
an
annual
informational
item.
But
okay,
let
me
get
to
here.
D
No
not
for
the
last
eight
years.
Actually
I
guess
we
there
wouldn't
be
anything
for
twenty
for
the
news
cycle.
The
current
cycle,
twenty
twenty
one
through
twenty.
A
C
Okay,
well,
so
again,
I
cannot
vouch
for
I
mean
I
can
tell
you
that,
like
the
299
project,
the
permit
was
issued.
It's
currently
under
construction.
That's
I
don't
know
150
units
approximately.
I
forget
what
it
is.
C
C
C
So
what
that
relate?
So
basically,
over
the
last
eight
years
we
only
built
we
built
37
of
our
very
low
incomes
that
were
required
for
this
rena
cycle
and
only
three
percent
of
the
low
income,
whereas
we
did
378
percent
of
our
moderate
and
696
percent
of
our
above
moderate.
So
you
can
see
the
trend
in
terms
of
production.
C
D
C
Yeah,
so
this
is,
I
mean
this
is
going
to
be
in
a
report
on
march.
16Th
is
an
annual
report,
we're
required
to
do
for
the
state.
C
E
E
B
So
I'd
like
to
maybe
pull
this
back
to
a
slightly
higher
level
and.
B
D
So
my
the
reason
I
asked
this
question
is
we
have
about
2600
rena
units
that
we
have
to
build
in
the
next
eight
years
and
what
I'm
seeing
is
a
focus
on
a
lot
of
development
that
is
not
helping
us
meet
our
arena
numbers,
which
is
what
is
important
to
me,
and
so
I
want
to
know
how
we
change
this.
So,
instead
of
making
a
preponderance
of
moderate
and
above
moderate
housing,
which
is
we're
talking,
60
an
hour
and
above
which
is
not
where
our
primary
needs
are,
how
do
we?
D
C
C
D
C
C
C
Affordable
housing
is
built
by
private
development
in
thousand
oaks.
There
is
very,
I
mean
I
guess
many
mansions
has
built
a
couple
projects.
There
are
very
few,
but
those
kind
of
types
of
developments
are
not
occurring
here,
so
it's
really
dependent
on
private
development
and
what
makes
private
development
pencil
is
able.
The
ability
to
include.
B
So,
but
I
want
to,
I
want
to
sort
of
roseanne
you
and
others
are
really
hitting
on
a
good
point,
which
is
that
there
is
and
a
real
challenge
right.
There
is
a
need
for
more
affordable
housing
in
the
community.
B
There's
a
desire-
and
we've
heard
this
a
lot
and
and
and
affordable,
and
I'm
I'm
going
to
use
affordable
very
broadly
here,
which
is
deep,
restricted,
affordable
housing
where
you
have
to
meet
certain
income
levels.
But
you
also
want
housing
that
is
affordable
for
the
teachers,
for
students,
for
young
professionals
and
I'm
also
hearing.
B
You
say
that
if
all
of
the
housing,
the
multi-family
housing
that
is
built
is
just
high
and
high
income,
condos
and
apartments
you're,
not
getting
some
of
the
benefits
that
you
might
want
out
of
the
the
higher
intensity
development,
because
some
of
the
benefits
that
I'm
hearing,
if
I'm
hearing
you
correctly,
if
you're
gonna,
accept
some
higher
density
development,
you
want
to
make
sure
it
comes
with
some
affordability
right.
So.
B
Okay,
so
so
great
great
questions-
and
actually
this
is
a
really
helpful-
you
know
kind
of
deep
dive
on
this
on
the
affordable
issue.
Density
alone
will
not
necessarily
produce
affordable
units.
Housing
is
very
expensive
to
build.
Multi-Family
housing
is
very
expensive
to
build.
The
cost
of
construction
is
really
high.
B
Land
costs
are
high,
so
clint
brought
this
up
as
one
of
the
ways
that
you
can
have
that
you
can
get
affordable
housing,
which
is
through
an
inclusionary
housing
markets
in
order
for
and
then
ian
talked
about
in
order
for
that
to
actually
really
make
sense,
the
densities
have
to
be
higher
in
order
to
be
able
to
make
it
work,
because
the
the
affordable
housing
most
of
the
affordable
housing
that
is
going
to
be
built
in
the
city
is
going
to
be
most
likely
through
some
sort
of
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
right.
B
So
you
have
to
make
it
pencil
in
that
way.
Right
now,
the
city's
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
essentially
doesn't
achieve
what
you
want
it
to
achieve.
There
are
some
cities
that
have
created
their
own
density,
bonus
program
to
say:
if
you
build
affordable
housing
or
a
percentage
of
affordable
housing,
you
can
have
a
density
bonus.
B
Because
of
the
of
the
amount
of
bonus
in
height
and
density
that
you
get
compared
to
the
levels
of
affordability,
you
have
to
provide
okay,
so
there's
it's
very
complicated
and
I
I
don't
claim
to
understand
all
of
it,
but
it
is
this
combination
of
things
where
you
need
to.
If
you
just
say
we
want
high.
If
you
just
say,
we
want
affordable
housing
and
we
want
100,
affordable
housing,
there's
very,
very
few
developers
who
are
going
to
come
in
and
build
housing
in
that
way.
D
I've
I
have
come
up.
I
mean
we've
talked
about
this
idea
over
the
course
of
last
year
and
what
I
and
I
don't
even
remember
where
I
got
the
idea
or
where
it
originally
came
from.
But
what
I
see
as
a
possible
solution
is
in
the
village
centers,
because
we
want
neighborhoods
that
are
walkable
and
bicyclable,
so
that
people
who
are
living
around
those
already
established
centers
can
do
their
errands
close
to
their
neighborhoods
without
causing
a
lot
of
extra
traffic.
D
D
So
you
can
do
basic,
no
kitchen
stuff
in
your
apartment,
but
the
there
are
common
shared
spaces
that
include
laundry
kitchen,
lounge
areas
that
are
shared
so
that
it's
not
as
expensive
for
a
developer
to
build,
because
you
don't
have
to
put
all
of
those
facilities
in
every
single
apartment,
and
I
think
it
would
be
really
beneficial
for
singles
and
students
who
like
to
be
in
community
environments,
and
it
would
also
probably
be
good
for
seniors
who
are
downsizing
and
are
looking
for
more
camaraderie
than
they
would
typically
have
living
alone.
D
So
it's
sort
of
like
the
concept
of
the
retirement
home
or
the
university
dormitory,
where
you're
sharing
common
spaces
that
everybody's
using
that
brings
people
together
while
downsizing
the
actual
living
apartment
part
so
that
it's
not
as
expensive
to
build.
And
if
you
made
those
facilities
all
electric,
so
you
didn't
have
to
incur
the
expense
of
putting
in
gas
connections
that
would
even
bring
the
price
down
farther
by
putting
solar
panels
on
the
roof
and
generating
clean
energy
to
power
electric
a
lot
of
appliances
rather
than
putting
in
both
electric
and
gas.
D
So
that's
my
idea.
I
mean,
and
I
would
like
to
see
the
village
centers
made
attractive
with
gardens
or
a
focal
point
where
people
can
gather
outside
as
well
and
trees
and
make
it
a
really
nice
place
to
be
that
people
are
compelled
to
go
to
and
then
establish
a
network
of
bicycle
lanes
and
walking
paths
to
connect
those
neighborhoods
to
the
village
centers
so
that
it's
easy
to
get
around
without
having
to
navigate
traffic
congested
streets.
D
So
that's
my
idea
for
how
to
get
around
the
cost
of
building
affordable
units.
I
don't
know
if
that's
viable,
you
might
have
a
better
idea
than
I
do
and
if
so,
how
do
we
get
it?
The
idea
out
there,
so
we
can
actually
discuss
it
and
see
how
we
could
encourage
it
to
be
built.
B
All
right,
let
me
I'm
gonna
start
and
I
think
it's
really
creative
idea.
So
I'm
just
let
me
just
start
by
saying
I
love,
I
love
the
creativity
with
these
ideas.
I
don't
know
to
be
completely
honest.
I
don't
know
how
that
works
with
building
codes,
and
you
know
creating
buildings
and
renting
them
out.
I
I
honestly
just
don't
know
so
you
know,
I
think
it's
something
that
can
be
kind
of
explored
and
thought
through,
like
my
and
and
I
love
the
creativity.
So
thank
you
so
my
my
question.
B
D
I
mean
I,
I
see
that
the
mall
area
as
the
potential
for
a
village
center-
for
you
know
a
community
hub.
My
goal
is
to
distribute
them
throughout
the
city
to
sort
of
distribute
all
the
density.
So
we
don't
need
to
make
the
one
area-
the
thousand
oaks
boulevard
super
super
dense,
but
to
actually
spread
that
density
throughout
the
community,
so
that
it's
in
pockets,
where
it's
actually
serving
people
in
the
single
family.
D
Neighborhoods
because
like
where
I
live,
the
closest
place
commercial
area
is
2.2
miles
away,
which
it
doesn't.
I
mean
I
have
to
take
my
car
and
if
we
truly
want
to
make
this
city
walkable
and
bicyclable,
I
think
that
we
need
to
provide
services
in
each
neighborhood
as
opposed
to
expecting
everybody
to
go
downtown,
because
that
just
encourages
everybody
to
get
into
their
cars.
Yeah.
B
Okay,
so
I
I
have
a
sort
of
a
question
back
back
at
you
with
this,
so
I
apologize
you're
asking
me
questions
and
I'm
going
to
ask
you
questions
back.
I
mean,
I
think
any
others
should
jump
in
on
this
question.
One
of
the
things
that
is
is
a
always
a
challenge
is,
and
it's
come
up
in
this
plan.
Is
this
question
of
calculating
density
versus
this
the
scale
of
the
building
the
comments
that
roseanne
your
idea
essentially
would
result
in
buildings.
F
B
So
there
is
to
be,
to
be
honest,
there's
there's
sort
of
a
conflict
going
on
here
of
of
density,
the
actual
number
versus
the
size
of
the
building
and
people
think
about
those
things
together.
But
you
know
your
point
that
you
just
made-
and
I
had
made
this
a
year
ago
at
a
general
plan
advisory
committee
meeting-
is
that
people
understand
scale
of
building
more
than
they
understand
dwelling
unit
density,
because
dwelling
unit
density
is
based
on
on
the
size
of
the
unit
and
not
the
size
of
the
building
right.
B
So
if
you
have
2
000
square
foot
average
units
that
gives
you
a
low
density
in
one
size
building,
if
you
have
a
thousand
square
foot
units
on
average,
it
gives
you
a
much
higher
density.
If
you
have
750
square
foot
units
on
average,
the
density
goes
up
even
higher.
The
building
form
can
essentially
look
the
same.
D
E
E
We
still
there's
a
point
where
we've
got
to
cut
off,
because
we
cannot
get
away
from
the
fact
that,
even
if
it's
walkable
the
more
density,
you
have
the
more
people
you're
going
to
have
living
there,
the
more
cars
that
are
going
to
need
parking,
the
more
cars
that
are
going
to
be
coming
in
and
out
of
the
area
while
they're
going
to
work.
So
you
save
some
with
that
and
you
maybe
can
save
the
building
size,
but
you
still
are
going
to
be
bringing
along
some
of
the
other
problems.
B
B
You
know
the
same
impacts
that
you
that
you're
talking
about,
and
I
think
you
know
we
have
heard
through
the
process
that
people
want
walkability,
and
I
you
know
I
I
hear
the
the
desire
that
that
density
without
benefits
is
not
worth
it,
but
if
you
can
have
density
with
some
of
the
benefits,
there's
more
of
a
tolerance
for
it.
I.
E
If,
if
we're
going
to
want
to
make
it
the
walkability
type
things-
and
I
don't
know
how
we
would
control
this,
but
we
also
have
to
look
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
ending
up
building
something,
like
I
don't
know,
matt
if
you're,
if
you're
familiar
with
the
americana
in
glendale,
which
is
you
know,
a
mixed
use
project,
but
in
reality
it's
it's
not
a
place
where
you
know
the
people
that
live
there
are
going
to
shop.
It's
a
place
that
has
you
know
little
boutique
stores
and
bookstores
right.
E
You
know
it
doesn't
have
a
grocery
store
and
a
drugstore,
so
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we
stay
away
from
making
these
places
that
are
like
a
little
mini.
Rodeo
drive
on
the
first
floor
and
apartments
on
the
thing
above
me,
and
I
I
do
have
some
fear,
because
we
are
a
thousand
oaks
that
that
might
be
what
some
of
this
mixed
use
ends
up
being.
B
Yeah
well
retail,
as
we
know,
as
you
know,
I
I
I
think
I
know
it
was,
you
know,
is
difficult
to
to
make
work
and
a
lot
of
times
the
mix,
the
the
retail
and
mixed
use
buildings
is
essentially
a
loss
leader
for
developers.
They
they
build
it
because
of
the
housing
and
they're
required
to
build
it.
B
You
know
one
of
the
ideas
we
had
is:
there
are
some
areas
where
it's
just
the
housing
and
not
the
retail,
so
you
don't
over
retail
the
community
and
you
just
have
an
attractive
frontage
of
the
building,
rather
than
than
retail.
What
what
I'm
curious
there
are.
There
are
lots
of
folks
on
this
call.
Does
anyone
else
want
to
chime
in
on
this
on
this
thought?
B
I
think
it's
a
really
important
question.
That
is,
you
know,
clearly
a
struggle.
A
Just
a
bit
of
information
or
request
this
property,
just
the
the
list
going
up
or
did
we
end
up
on
loopy's
old
restaurant
side
is?
Is
that
considered?
Does
that
have
affordable
housing
in
there
and
is
that
a
viable
approach.
C
About
it
I'll
answer,
yeah,
no
there's,
there's
no
affordable
housing.
It's
an
apartment
project.
The
project
is
allowed
by
right
in
the
zoning,
so
there
is
no
and
the
inclusionary
does
not.
Addre
does
not
apply
to
for
rent
projects.
A
E
And
I
know
we're
getting
near
the
end.
Can
I
type
in
some
general
questions.
B
Hold
on
so
just
to
follow
up
with
this
so
clint,
I
sorry,
gordon,
you
there's
a
there's
a
clint
and
a
gordon
clint,
so
I'm
getting
and
you
guys
are
on
my
screen
right
above
each
other
and
below
so
yes,
so
I'm
getting
confused
gordon!
You
had
your
hand
up.
A
I
was
just
wondering
what
the
the
the
rough
cost
per
square
foot
nowadays
is:
are
they
using
for
apartment
type,
construction?
It
used
to
be
like
100
or
125
dollars,
a
square
foot
or
something
walking
nowadays.
B
I
I
don't
know
what
that
number
is,
but
it
is
not
125
square
foot.
I
honestly
don't
know
what
the
number
is.
A
Of
affordability,
in
a
market
situation,
you
need
to
know
what
it
costs.
B
Right,
well,
that's
and
that's
part
of
what
what
ian
had
mentioned
in
terms
of
the
process.
E
B
You're
doing
an
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
that
that
clint
mentioned
is
that
you
have
to
do
that
feasibility
study
and
it
goes
it
takes
into
consideration
the
cost
of
the
building.
And
you
know
honestly,
you
know,
I
know
parking
is
an
issue
and
you
don't
want
too
little
parking
because
then
people
just
park
on
the
street
and
it
has
impacts.
But
you
know
a
lot
of
parking
parking,
structured
parking
costs
like
75
000
of
parking
space,
so
it
makes
affordable
housing
really
difficult.
B
If
you're
requiring
like
two
spaces
for
a
studio,
I
don't
know
what
the
city
standards
are,
but
you
know
we've
seen
that
in
some
cities,
where,
like
every
apartment
needs,
every
unit
needs
two
structured
parking
spaces
or
two
and
a
quarter
with
visitor
and
and
you
just
all
of
a
sudden,
make
it
infeasible.
C
I
would
just
add
to
that.
Actually,
if
it
is
an
affordable
housing
project
that
is
requiring
state
grants,
there
is
they're
actually
held
to
a
higher
standard
than
market
rate
housing
so
actually
to
build
the
affordable
housing
unit
costs
more
than
a
market
rate,
because
it's
basically
designed
to
withstand,
I
mean
basically
to
extend
you
know
because
it
has
to
meet
certain
state
requirements
and
so
forth.
B
So
insert
snide
comment
about
state
requirements
here,
that's
really
what
what
the
response
for
that
one
is.
Okay,
karen
you've
been
very
patient.
Thank
you.
Your
questions.
E
Thank
you,
I'm
nothing
if
not
persistent,
so
these
are
really
really
general
questions.
While
I
was
doing
some
more
research
on
the
current
general
plan
and
the
current
zoning,
I
came
to
notice
that
the
current
land
use
guidelines
for
let's
say
low
density
are
two
to
four
and
a
half
dwelling
units
per
acre.
But
the
key
that
you're
presenting
now
for
neighbor
for
neighborhood
low
density
is
two
to
six
dwelling
units
per
acre.
E
B
No,
that's
that's
a
really
a
really
good
question,
so
the
areas
and
I'll
say
the
areas
you
know
outside
of
the
quote.
Areas
of
change,
which
you
know
again
is
sort
of
a
misnomer
because
they
might
not
be
changing,
but
the
the
areas
outside
the
areas
of
change.
We
were
looking
at
the
designations
there
and
it's
still
it's
still
in
flux.
So
what
we
tried
to
do
was
to
create
some
more
like
more
stratifications
based
on
the
types
of
housing
we
would
we've
seen
built
in
the
city.
B
There's
a
note
in
the
briefing
book
that
says
that
we'll
likely
have
sub
stratifications
of
those,
so
two
to
six
is
kind
of
a
wide
range,
and
so
what
we
might
end
up
with
ultimately
is
a
two
to
four
and
a
four
to
six.
But
we're
still
sort
of
working
through
that
you
know
one
of
the
ones
with
sort
of
the
biggest
stratification
is
the
the
four
and
a
half
to
fifteen.
B
And
when
we
think
about
this
as
planners,
we
think
about
this
as
building
types.
So
a
single
family
homes
at
different
lot
sizes
can
really
feel
like
the
same.
So
you
don't
need
to
have
a
uniform
lot
size
for
a
neighborhood
to
feel
you
know
like
consistent.
E
E
E
so
that
just
sort
of
threw
me
now.
My
next
question
is
looking
at
the
briefing
book
and
I
and
thank
you
very
much
that
you
included
some
representative.
I
use
that
term
representative
pictures
of
what
buildings
could
look
like:
they're,
not
architectural
drawings
or
anything.
I
understand
that,
but
looking
at
throughout
the
presentation
at
various
pictures
of
areas
that
were
called
commercial
regional
with
the
2.6
zero
far,
I
saw
pictures
that
looked
like
they
could
be
anything
from
really.
You
know
high-end
retail,
to
five-story
hotels.
B
E
B
Yeah
that
you
are,
you
are
correct.
That
is
a
very
good
reading
of
the
document.
You
know
we
I
you
know
I
I
will
say
I
think
that
there's
we've
continued
to
have
conversations
about
what
those
stratifications
are,
those
different
designations
for
the
commercial,
and
so
I
I
think,
if
you
have
comments
comments,
concerns
about
it.
Please
please
let
us
know
what
you
think
and
that
commercial
regional
is
is
designed
to
be
a
pretty
flexible
designation
that
could
handle
everything
from
you
know:
a
regional
mall.
B
If
someone
were
crazy
enough
to
try
and
build
one
of
those
again
to
apartment,
building,
to
not
apartments,
I'm
sorry
to
office,
buildings
or
r
d,
so
it
can
handle
or
hotels.
It
can
handle
a
range
of
things.
Okay,.
E
And
then
my
next
question,
this
is
sort
of
a
bigger
question,
but
just
in
in
your
experience
as
a
as
a
planner,
when
you
have
something
that
is
truly
in
a
flood
zone,
a
what
can,
how
tight
are
the
restrictions
that
require
remediation
and
do
they
just
are
they
just?
Is
it
just
putting
in
a
couple
extra
drainage
ditches?
Is
it?
Is
it
literally
building
it
out
of
the
floodplain,
I
mean
how
extensive
is
the
requirements?
Are
those.
B
You
know
I
don't
I
don't
know
in
particular
all
of
the
requirements
that
are
there,
but
you
know.
I
think
that
there
is
a
whole
other
process
for
what
for
what
happens,
and
I
think
you
know
ideally
we're
we're
trying
to
build
we're,
trying
to
build
things
and
come
up
with
plans
that
allow
for
that
flexibility
in
the
future.
So
I
I
don't
know
I
mean
exactly.
B
E
I
asked
the
question
for
two
reasons
I
think
on
last
week's
call
someone
I
I'm
not
sure
who
it
was,
but
I
think
someone
from
the
city
when
we
were
talking
about
our
you
know
our
favorite
lot,
that
there
are
parts
of
that.
That's
a
that's
a
flood
zone
that
entire
36
acres
is
a
flood
zone.
So
it's
not
just
yeah
eating.
B
E
E
Okay,
but
then
the
next.
The
next
part
of
that
question,
though,
is
if
things
have
to
be
done,
not
just
in
this
area,
but
in
any
of
the
area
with
like
added
infrastructure
like
additional
roads,
drainage,
etc.
How
much
of
the
cost
is?
Are
we
able
to
put
on
the
developer
versus
how
much
of
the
costs
do
the
city's
taxpayers
have
to
assume
on
that?
You
mean
on
like.
B
And
then
I
want
to
let
me
answer
this
quickly
and
then
I
see
two
other
questions
from
people
who
haven't
spoken
much,
so
I
want
to
make
sure
we
get
we
get
to
them.
So
you
know
I
think,
on
a
property
like
that,
you
know.
I
think
it
would
really
all
be
borne
by
the
developer,
but
you
know
I
can't
guarantee
that
that's
my
experience
in
the
past
is
that,
if
that's
being
developed,
it's
all
on
the
developer
to
build
whatever
improvements
are
needed
and
it
wouldn't
be
the
city,
okay,
faith.
A
Thanks
matt
and
thanks
to
all
who
are
doing
the
office
hours
today,
it's
much
appreciated.
I.
D
Have
two
questions
one
just
quickly
the
comment
that
was
made
about
mixed
use.
A
D
D
D
A
B
Yeah,
I'm
going
to
start
with
that
one
because
I've
already,
because
I
already
forgot
your
first
question.
Sorry.
D
Mixed
use:
okay,.
B
Okay,
so
so
the
the
process.
So
we
we
have
the
survey
and
we
asked
the
questions
in
there,
so
we
not
only
pre,
as
you
you've
read
it
right,
so
we
not
only
presented
the
alternatives,
but
we
have
questions
that
try
to
get
at
what
the
alternatives
are
showing
and
a
direction.
So
what
we
didn't
want
to
just
say
pick
a
b
or
c
for
the
alternatives
and
have
no
idea.
Why
right
so
we
tried
to
get
at
some
of
the
some.
B
Of
the
alternatives,
through
some
of
the
questions
in
the
in
the
survey,
to
be
honest,
we
had
way
more
questions
than
this
to
start
with,
because
there
are
so
many
questions
that
we
had
so
we
tried
to
boil
it
down.
We
are
going
to
look
at
the
general
direction
that
we
have
from
the
the
comments
we
get
both
in
the
survey
and
outside
of
that
and
make
a
recommendation
based
on
what
we're
seeing
there,
but
also
say
why.
B
So
there
are
some
areas
that-
and
I've
looked
at
the
preliminary
results,
we're
up
to
375
plus
surveys.
So
we're
you
know
the
numbers
are
getting
up
there.
There
are
some
where
it's
you
know
it's
directional
like
we're,
seeing
a
direction,
and
there
are
some
where
it's
just
very
evenly
split
so
far
from
the
results.
So
I'm
just
like
these
are
preliminary.
You
know
if
it's
evenly
split,
what
we'll
probably
do
is
say
there.
B
This
is
an
area
we
presented
essentially
two
options
and
or
three
options,
and
there
was
really
even
split
between
the
two
council,
which
way
do
you
want
to
go
like
this
is
what
we
heard
right
and
if
it's
others,
we're
going
to
say,
look
75
wanted
it
one
way.
This
is
our
recommendation
for
that,
and
but
here's
the
considerations.
B
So
that's
how
we're
going
to
present
it
so
that
we're
not
only
presenting
the
what
we
think
the
direction
is
based
on
what
we've
heard
of
the
y
from
the
from
the
numbers
with
that
so
but
then
it
all
has
to
work
together
from
the
arena
numbers
and
from
everything
else.
D
You
also
were
telling
someone
about
you
know:
sharon,
I
think
sending
emails
in
or
whatever,
on
the
bubbles
on
the
map.
Is
there
a
limit
as
far
as
how
much
information
you
put
in
those.
B
I
do
not
know
if
you,
if
you
are
hitting
a
limit,
there's
a
limit
if
you
are
hitting
a
limit.
Let
us
know
if
you're
you
know,
if
you're
writing
a
you
know
a
page
and
a
half
on
a
comment
bubble.
I
would
say
that
maybe
the
comment
bubble
on
the
map
is
not
the
best
way
to
go
with
that.
B
So
you
know,
if
you
have
lots
of
comments
like
that,
you
know
maybe
ping
us
offline
and
we'll
figure
out
a
good
way
to
allow
you
to
give
your
comments
that
you
want
to
give
in
response
to
this.
Okay,
okay,
thank
you.
So
then,
let's
see
mixed
use
really
quickly.
You
know
the
idea
of
mixed
use
ultimately
is
a
combination
of
things.
B
So
one
is
when
you're
creating
an
area
that
you
want
to
be
walkable
the
ground
floor
of
the
building
needs
to
be
interesting
and
active
if
you've
ever
walked
by
a
blank
wall
on
a
on
a
pedestrian
street.
It's
just
not
fun.
So
the
idea
is
to
create
active
ground
floor
space
and,
ultimately,
that's
what
we're
trying
to
do
with
the
mixed
use
buildings.
B
The
other
is
to
create
retail
space
so
that
people
can
have
the
services
there
there's
a
little
bit
of
a
misnomer
that
I
will
just
say
that
you
know
that
the
retail
space
in
the
ground
floor
of
the
building
is
supported
by
the
people
who
live
above
it.
I
think
that's
not
correct.
Really.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
create
mixed-use
places.
B
So
in
a
lot
of
times,
it's
actually
easier
to
have
a
building
that
is
commercial
or
retail
and
then
another
building,
that's
all
residential,
and
so
one
of
the
thoughts
that
we
had
as
part
of
this
is
to
allow
some
of
the
areas
along
thousand
oaks
boulevard
to
either
be
all
residential
with
an
attractive
ground
floor
in
active
ground
floor
space
or
to
have
a
very
minimal
amount
of
of
commercial
space
allowed
there,
because,
because
of
the
exact
reason
you're
talking
about
it's
terrible
to
see
two
like
new
brand
new
buildings
in
a
row,
three-story
buildings
that
are
mixed
use
and
all
of
the
ground
floor,
retail
is
vacant.
B
E
That
you'd
said
earlier
and
pardon
my
ignorance
on
this.
If,
if
I
have
a
a
lot
that.
D
A
E
B
Well,
if
so,
I
I
think,
let's
see
so
the
city
previously
in
order
to
allow
some
development
along
thousand
oaks
boulevard
as
part
of
the
the
thousand
oaks
boulevard.
Specific
plan
created
this
concept
of
a
bank
where
it
transferred
density.
What
we're
trying
to
do
and
boy
this
is.
This
is
going
to
be
a
long
answer
I
apologize,
but
what
we're?
B
One
of
the
challenges
that
we
have
overall
is
when
you
look
at
the
land
use
map
right
now,
you
have
along
thousand
oaks
boulevard.
You
have
a
thousand
oaks
boulevard
specific
plan
which
allows
30
units
an
acre
and
50
feet
if
the
the
81
124
does
not
include
maximum
build
out
full
build
out
of
all
of
those
areas
that
was
approved
with
the
idea
that
you
could
transfer
density
over
to
those.
B
So
if
you
actually
do
the
existing
general
plan
and
full
build
out
of
every
parcel
in
you
know,
this
is
not
on
the
books
right
now,
but
if
you
were
to
just
do
that
hypothetical,
it
would
be
over
eighty
one
thousand
one
hundred
and
eighty
four
and
we're
trying
to
make
sure
that
it's
not
that
that
it's
not
over
that.
So
what
we're
doing
is
you
know
in
the
future?
B
If
you
are
in
an
area
that
is
zoned
four
and
a
half
to
fifteen
units,
an
acre,
then
you
can,
you
would
be
able
to
do
that.
There's
none
of
this
we've
transferred
it
out
and
therefore
you
can't
do
it.
A
B
That
that's
the
ease,
so
that's
the
simplest
answer
to
the
question
is
that
you
know
let's,
let's
put
a
time
stamp
when
the
general
plan
is
adopted,
we're
not
going
to
do
banking
stuff
after
that,
like
that's,
not
the
plan
right
now,
okay,
boy,
I
am,
I
see
a
lot
of
hands
now
that
we've
hit
12.,
I'm
happy
to
stay
on
for
longer
to
keep
answering
questions
so
we'll
just
keep
going
a
little
bit.
I.
B
Thank
you.
So
do
you,
michael,
if
you
want
to
check
with
him,
that'd
be
great
while
we
answer
some
questions,
so
the
next
is.
B
Glenn
glenn,
we
do
not
hear
you,
you
have
your
hand
raised.
E
E
I
copied
two
people
on
the
call
who
I
think
would
be
interested
as
well.
Wonderful,.
A
B
B
There
is
existing
conditions,
work
that
gets
at
some
of
that.
I
don't
know
if
it
does
that
exactly,
but
maybe
you
can
circle
back
and
we
can
help
guide.
You.
A
B
Sorry
kristen,
why
don't
you
email
the
general
plan
website?
There's
the
general
plan
number
and
kristin?
You
can
forward
the
email
to
me,
so
you
don't
have
to
answer
this
one
but
yeah.
I
think
you
know
it.
It
is
really
interesting
and
I
actually
early
on
in
the
process.
Glenn
went
around
to
different
stores
and
places
and
generally
asked
what
the
salary
was
for.
People
who
were
working
there
and
it
was
very
out
of
line
with
what
the
rents
being
charged
in
the
city
were
so
anecdotally.
B
A
I'm
also
thinking
about
the
the
people
that
service
my
car
yeah
things
like
that.
A
A
A
Okay
in
the
the
website
was
again,
it's.
B
A
Oh,
thank
you
yeah.
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
your
response
to
sylvana.
I
was
under
the
impression
that
that
81
000
number
was
was
the
max
build
out?
Are
you
saying
that
it's
not.
B
B
But
again,
I
think
the
point
that
is
that,
once
the
the
new
general
plan
is
adopted,
it's
gonna
stay
at
that
eighty
one
thousand
one
hundred
and
twenty
four
all
across
the
city
at
full
bill.
That's
the
plan.
E
Okay
and
then
the
when.
A
B
It's
not
backwards.
The
infrastructure
generally
follows
and
it's
again
based
on
growth
projections,
not
full
build-out,
because
we
don't
think
that
full
build-out
will
ever
happen.
So
so
you
don't
actually
do
your
infrastructure
necessarily
based
in
a
plan
like
this,
based
on
full,
build
out,
because
it's
it's
theoretical
build
out,
it's
not
real,
so
it
happens
after
and
the
infrastructure
analysis
happens
as
part
of
the
the
continued
process,
because
essentially
the
infrastructure
is
sized
to
meet
the
amount
of
development
rather
than.
D
B
D
Okay,
so
I
don't
know
whether
I
don't
know
whether
or
not
you
read
our
local
paper,
but
the
front
page
article
on
this
thursday's
acorn
was
included
quotations
and
commentary
by
a
previous
planning
commission
chair
by
the
name
of
mick
ferris,
and
he
basically
stated
in
the
article
that
the
city's
infrastructure
was
always
and
consistently
well.
D
The
the
city's
target
population
was
always
inconsistently
at
about
considered
to
be
135
000
people,
which
equates
to
about
50
000
housing
units,
and
he
said
that
the
reason
for
that
was
because
our
infrastructure
was
built
to
accommodate
that
capacity
of
people.
D
So
the
concern
is
that
with
81
000
housing
units,
which
is
equivalent
at
maximum
build
out
to
220
000
people,
we're
looking
at
about
85
000,
more
people
than
our
water
sewer,
traffic
and
other
infrastructure
systems
were
are
able
to
currently
support.
D
How
does
the
city
pay
for
those
infrastructure
updates
for
all
those
extra
people
and
still
maintain
the
revenues
and
flexibility
to
address
other
pressing
issues
like
adapting
to
climate
change
and
the
strategies
that
that
will
entail
and
mitigating
wildfire
risk
and
other
pressing
problems
in
the
community?.
B
Well,
I
I
there's.
There
were
multiple
things
in
your
question
that
which
is
fine.
I
I
just
more
acknowledging
that
it's
not
a
complaint.
I
just
wanna
try
and
break
it
down.
So,
first
of
all,
I
have
no
idea
where
mick
got
his
information.
B
I
I
I
just
don't
know
so
I
don't
know
where
he's
basing
it
on
that
aside.
It
certainly
was
not
anything
if
he
is
a
gpac
member.
It
was
certainly
not
anything
that
was
discussed
at
the
gpac
meetings.
B
B
There
is
a
very
real
concern
that,
as
costs
of
revenues
of
providing
public
services
go
up
even
just
for
current
public
services,
that
the
revenues
coming
in
from
the
city
aren't
sufficient
for
that
and
there's
a
very
strong
tie,
as
I've
mentioned
in
the
briefing
book
and
we've
mentioned
previously
between
staying
between
the
city's
evolution,
which
means
some
change
in
the
city
and
tax
revenues.
B
As
we
know,
retail
has
accounts
for
a
chunk
of
that
public
service.
A
chunk
of
that
revenue
and
the
retail
numbers
have
gone
down.
Car
sales
have
maintained,
which
is
a
big
number,
but
retail
sales
overall
have
gone
down
in
the
city
over
time,
which
then
diminishes
tax
revenues.
B
Infrastructure
costs
for
new
development
is
a
very
complicated
question.
How
that
actually
gets
paid
for,
and
a
lot
of
it
happens
through
impact
fees
from
new
developments,
so
that
you
calculate
the
amount
of
new
development
that's
coming
in
the
cost
of
the
infrastructure
improvements,
and
you
spread
that
over
the
costs
over
the
amount
of
development.
B
Again,
I
don't
it's,
it's
complicated
each
jurisdiction.
Does
it
differently
each
agency
within
the
jurisdiction?
Does
it
differently?
But
you
know,
that's
that's
what
the
ideas
and
and
the
idea
of
all
of
this
one
of
the
foundational
thoughts
on
the
general
plan
is
to
create
a
plan
to
make
sure
that
there
are
continued
tax
revenues
in
the
city
to
support
high
quality
public
services
to
pay
for
infrastructure
improvements
to
pay
for
the
maintenance.
You
have
a
lot
of
roads
in
the
city.
B
It's
a
spread
out
city,
the
more
spread
out
the
lower
density,
the
higher
the
cost
per
per
person
to
maintain
right,
there's
basic,
that
that
was
a
report
done
in
1973
called
the
cost
of
sprawl,
which
very
clearly
laid
that
out.
So
you
know
it's
it's
it's
out
there
and
you
have
to
maintain
it,
but
the
new
infrastructure.
B
If
you
have
want
more
information
on
this
one
of
the
we
had
a
forum
on
this,
that
is
on
the
the
website,
and
I
believe
it's
recorded,
and
there
is
a
really
excellent
speaker,
nationally
known
speaker
who
talks
about
this.
This
relationship
between
the
the
use
of
the
land,
the
amount
of
infrastructure
and
the
the
cost
of
services
and
I'd
really
recommend
like
he
knows
the
stuff
better
and
he
presented
it
really
well.
So
I
encourage
you
to
see
that.
B
It's
on
the
general
plan
website,
yep
I'll,
tell
you
if
I
can
find
it.
C
D
And
do
you
know
the
name
of
that
specific
forum?
There's
only
two.
B
D
And
so
just
to
summarize,
am
I
understanding
correctly
that
you're
saying
most
of
our
infrastructure
payments
infrastructure
improvements
are
going
to
be
coming
from
fees
from
developers.
B
Well,
infrastructure
improvements
to
support
new
development-
I
I
think-
and
so
we'll
have
to
circle
back,
but
you
know
some
of
this
is
also
deferred
maintenance
to
existing
facilities,
so
that
it's
not
so
simple
to
just
say
that
new
development
pays
for
the
cost
of
all
development
of
all
infrastructure
improvements,
because
there
are,
there
are
there's
ongoing
operation
and
maintenance
that
this
that
current
residents
pay
for.
It
essentially
becomes
part
of
the
same
system.
B
Okay,
we're
at
12
20.
Are
there
any
any
additional
comments,
questions?
B
Why
don't
we
just
take
a
minute
and
talk
about
next
steps?
We
we
have
one
more
office
hours,
which
is,
I
believe,
tuesday,
is
that
right
from
10
to
12..
Yes,
that
is
we.
We
tried
to
spread
these
out
just
so.
You
all
know
to
make
it
more
convenient
for
folks
a
couple
in
the
evening,
one
on
a
saturday
and
one
during
the
day,
depending
on
people's
schedules.
B
So
that's
going
to
be
the
last
one.
As
michael
said,
we
extended
the
survey
until
march
15th.
That
said
I
I
would
really
like
to
encourage
you
all
to
do
if
you
know
you're
the
direction
you
want
to
what
you
want
to
say
in
the
survey
to
do
that
sooner
rather
than
later.
That
would
certainly
help
us
out.
Definitely
tell
your
friends
about
this.
Tell
your
friends
about
the
the
survey
about
the
briefing
book,
and
then
we
are
planning
our
schedule
of
future
engagement
for
the
for
the
spring.
B
Now
for
how
this
is
going
to
move
forward.
You
know
the
the
question.
Faith
that
you
asked
is
a
really
good
one.
How
do
we,
how
do
we
take
responses
from
a
thousand
plus
people
comments
and
and
put
that
into
something?
B
That's
that's
understandable
and
a
good
direction,
and
it's
not
easy,
but
but
you
know
we
we,
you
know,
I
explained
that
process,
but
you
know
the
other
thing
that
that
we
will
do
is
we
we
have
from
the
very
beginning,
said
we're
going
to
make
all
of
the
comments
available
for
people
to
see.
So
we
want
to
be
transparent
about
everything
that
we're
doing
in
the
decisions
that
that
we
are
making
or
the
recommendations.
B
So
with
that,
I
really
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
taking
the
time
today.
My
conversations
were
great.
I
know
these
are
tough
issues,
they're,
emotional
issues,
we
understand,
and
we
just
we
really
appreciate
your
thoughtfulness
with
this.