City of Watertown, SD 2018 City Council Meetings, 4 Jun 2018

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From YouTube: City Council Meeting 6 4 2018

Description

Agenda items include a Special Retail Malt Beverage and Wine license. Also included is Ordinance No. 18-06 and 18-08.

A

Good evening I'd like to call to order the City Council meeting of Monday June 4th 2018, is there a minister in the audience to give a prayer? I, don't see one Glenn? Are you willing.

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B

Dear Heavenly Father, we gather tonight and we thank you for the people in this room, the leaders of our community and those that are taking an interest in in what is best for this community. We ask you, give us the wisdom to make decisions that that further your work here on earth in Jesus's holy name, we pray, amen.

A

Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

A

Roll call please.

C

Albertson there Bueller Danforth.

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C

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C

T here Roby absent Solem here, Thorsen absent Ville Hauer. Here. Why present.

A

Thank you. I would like to announce that I have appointed Colin Paulson to be the acting city. Engineer till we find a replacement, so Thank, You Colin he'll be a regular at our council meetings for a while and Kristen Bob Dean is gone so Chris crumb, the assistant finance officer, is taking her place a couple new faces at the bench all right. The first item on the agenda is approval of the consent agenda. Is there a motion? Second for approval moved by Councilman Bueller second, by Councilman?

A

Why any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye? Those opposed signify by saying nay motion, carries item. 2 is public comment. This is the time set aside for anyone who wishes to make a comment about something not on the agenda. Is anyone here that would like to do that.

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A

Identify yourself.

F

Councilman animala I would just like to say that there are a lot of items that went missing at the lake, including parts of docks and stuff like that. So if you're out there be careful when you're driving around the lake, you never know what you're gonna run into so just an FYI last Friday's windstorm caused some major damage so make sure that you're careful when you're out boating so.

A

Yes, good note to make anything else: okay item number 3 is approval of the agenda and before I get a motion. I would like to remove item number six. The action concerning the Boys and Girls Club, we're not ready for that, and just.

G

A

What did I say, 626 and item number? Nine is not a resolution, but an agreement with that. I'd look for a motion to approve the agenda as revised move, my councilman vilho or second by Councilwoman manty, any discussion, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay, motion carries.

A

The fourth item on the agenda is a presentation by John Livermore about the emerald ash borer and he has a little helper.

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B

Can I say a word of introduction for John John is with the South Dakota Department of Agriculture in the Forestry Division and I heard a presentation that he made at a lake area Zoological Society meeting what about a year ago, John well.

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B

And part of that was had to do with the emerald ash borer and that's been a big topic in the news. There was a front-page story in that a couple of weeks ago. So, with the mayors of permission, I I asked if John would come and make a brief presentation good. It's a big topic that you know could have some big impact for a water town at some point, probably not too far down the road. Potentially with that. Take it away. John yep.

I

So now that we all know that it is, it has been certified. It's been found by APHIS in Sioux Falls. It is now in the state, so it's time to start thinking about management. Accordingly, one of the things with emerald ash borer is it's a very lazy insect, and so it doesn't move very far and a lot of times after it emerges, which is about this time of the year about June.

I

When the adult emerges a lot of times, it'll go right out of the tree into the same tree, its in, and so it doesn't move that now the insect itself isn't the problem we are. The people are what moved the insect through firewood nursery stock, pallet lumber, that's basically how it got into the United States in the first place in terms of management per each city, municipality is going to manage it. A little differently.

I

I've actually been talking with Jada Lange a little bit about the next step for a water town just because it can be a bit of a financial burden when it finally does get here. For the time being. The next step would be to start removing less-than-desirable ash trees that are in the city or that our city trees, in other words, anything that's old and in decline stuff. That already has decay poor form.

I

Those are the ones to start removing now and it's not because we're not really looking to you know just get rid of all the ash trees from a stocking standpoint. We don't want to see much more than 10% and the partial inventory done for the city is approximately thirty nine percent ash trees. So we are very, very high and that's normal across the state, but essentially the removal of the trees.

I

Now is so you aren't inundated with removals when it gets here, then there's a two-fold issue with that when emerald ash borer does get here, because it's not a question of if it gets here, it's a question of when, when it gets here, one of the bigger things you're going to be looking at is removal of a lot of these trees and the removal of a tree now isn't as dangerous as one that is infected because as a tree once a tree is infected.

I

It affects not only the crown but the root system, and so the whole tree gets really brittle and there's a lot of companies that win removal becomes part of the issue. They won't touch them. If there's more than 40% crown death in a tree, they won't touch them because of the liability and the safety they can't. They can't climb them properly. They can't move them properly because they literally just explode because they get so brittle. It's just a nature of the wood, which is the nature of the tree itself.

I

So the issue now is remove them. This seems more backwards than anything is remove them now, while they're seemingly healthy, although in this state there I don't know that I found a healthy tree yet, but we'll find one eventually, but with ash trees. Essentially, it's the remove now so you're spreading out your cost. So even if you're removing 1015 trees a year, that's 1015 trees, you're not having to remove later so the example we give is the city of Aberdeen has started doing it. So city forests are up there, Erin keys.

I

That was one of his initial thing before it. Even was certified in the state, for it was found in the state was removing these trees because he knows that the cost can be incurred and the cost can range between 750 to $1,000 per tree for removal removal of an infected tree.

I

If it's not infected we're looking at approximately $500 a tree, so a it's saving you money and B, it's saving. You liability in case there's concern for that.

I

You know it's one of those things where, for all we know it's here now we just haven't found it, but the issue is from my guess- and this is totally a guess- is it could be 20 years before it becomes so much of a problem for the city of Watertown? So if that's ten trees a year and it's 20 years, that's 250 that you're removing over time instead of having to do it when it gets here.

I

The other part of the spectrum with this is treatment, because we get a lot of questions when I first started here in Watertown about 3 years ago, there was actually someone treating trees for a melash borer within the city of Watertown.

I

Not only is that not an issue, we don't need be doing that, yet it won't be an issue and tilts within until it's been found within 15 miles.

I

Once it's been found within 15 miles, then it's time for the city to start thinking about treatment options, it's going to be cheaper to treat than to remove for a lot of these trees, so like you're, healthier trees. That's when you look at it. You go okay! Well, this is a good candidate for a treatment tree and that can be anywhere from depending on the size of the tree, 80 to 200 dollars per tree every two years, two to three years. So that's approximately the cost.

I

Now, when you weigh that with the cost of removal and replacement it's cheaper to treat than it is to remove when the tree is still healthy, but once you have to once you're removing a tree, that's infected the the price for removal skyrockets from an overall stand, health or for the city tree health. One of the things that we look at is that ten percent- and you know when we're looking at something- that's thirty, nine percent. It's not going to hurt anything to remove a little bit of the stock.

I

That's in here and I mean you can go on about any street in town. You can find a few that probably need to come down eventually. This is just one push in that step forward to start that removal process.

I

So we've covered removal. We've covered the fact that it's not here yet that we know of- and that's really been, the biggest key there's going to be a lot of people asking questions about when I need to start treating and that's going to be the biggest thing, not until it's been found within 15 miles.

I

The other thing we're starting to see is the companies that are doing the treatment are jacking their prices. It's a demand issue, it's a supply and demand issue.

I

So it's one of those things where, if you have the opportunity to quote lock in a price with someone, while you can it's probably not a bad idea, city of Sioux Falls is already starting to see that, and it's only been there for not even a month and they've they're in the process of developing where they can take their stuff. But at this point until it's here, I, don't really feel it necessary to talk about where stuff needs to go up until that point, you'd.

J

Mentioned every two to three years on treatment: yeah is that for how long for.

I

The life of that tree- oh my yeah, because once you stop treating that tree, the the insects are always going to be in that tree and as you treat the first year will kill what's in there. The second year will prevent new infestations. The third year is when the infestation starts to essentially get back into that tree again and then you're trying to prevent that. So it's like two to three years is the give or take some communities have stretched that out and so they'll go okay.

I

Well, we've treated the tree at year, one and at year five. So it's an ebb and flow. Okay, well the trees hurting, so we treat it and then they bring it back and then they wait for it to go back down again before they start treating again. That is a viable option. If cost is an issue, but from from what our forest health specialists at SDSU dr. ball, he said one to two years or two to three years, depending on the treatment type in its injection. It has to be an injection.

I

There are some soiled, wrenches and stuff like that, and people think that might work it's not effective for the emerald ash borer. The trunk injection has been really the only thing that we've found to be effective so far and.

J

I is that that's for an infected tree or if you've got an ash tree, and you want to keep it. You need to treat it correct.

I

So, even if there's no ash.

J

Borer in this.

I

So if it's, if you want to keep that tree alive, it is not only a preventative, but it kills what's in there. So not, and that's the it's the twofold with that with the treatment type is by injection. You are preventing an infestation and killing any infestation that might be in that tree. It's a systemic I.

J

Know of any municipalities that actually, therefore like in our case, you know our forestry people would do that. The city would do that or is it typically always private companies that do that I've.

I

Not encountered a municipality that does it yet because of liability and because of cost, because I mean even to even to have to hire I mean it might be in your interest to even hire someone to do the treatment for the city depending on the duration. But it's one of those things where you know.

I

Even within the city of Sioux Falls, the population has been it's not I'm, not going to say contained, because that's not really the right word, but they've really only located it in one area, as of now and they're, just gonna be essentially mark we're gonna be marking the spread to see how fast it spreads. Each city's gonna be a little different. Some are going to spread a little faster. Some we're gonna be pretty slow, it depends on each city and it's it's kind of hard to plan for it.

I

When you don't know exactly what it's going to do,.

K

I have a question about burning the wood. You know, let's say that, let's say: if you don't have it, you know, or at least you don't think you do, you cut the trees down. You can burn them in a fireplace and a fire pit all that stuff, but if they have it, if it gets to Watertown and somebody cuts the tree down with it, can you burn it in your fireplace? Can you burn it in burn piles type.

I

Deal quite frankly, that would be the best-case scenario. The biggest issue is moving it. So let's say you are in a city will use Sioux Falls, for example. Right now you have an ash tree that is suspected to be infested. You cut the tree down, you cut it into firewood. You burn it home, that's great! It's when you then stack some of that wood onto the back of your camper and go up to wha Bay for the weekend.

I

So that's the issue, but if you were to keep it where the tree is or within a quarantined area, so whether it's with in Sioux Falls or within the quarantine area around Sioux Falls, then it's acceptable quite frankly burning. It is the best to get rid of any infestation its to cut it up and burn it. They can go away.

L

John I got a couple questions for you as well sure. So, let's say we have an area of Watertown that it gets to. At some point. We won't pick the Northeast because that's where I live, so it's down here in the south somewhere. But what does the city do then? What do we do in the disposal of those trees when they're taken down, because we normally trees a lot of time to go out to our landfill there and they handle them up there?

L

That's one question the second one is: we have a lot of little trees. You know I think at the golf course I think some of the boulevards over the years that we planted a lot of the small trees and it seems like we're gonna, have a problem and try to reduce cost, we're almost better off taking those little trees out.

L

Don't let them get big 20 years or 30 years from now take the little trees out put different breed or breeds types of trees in there, and you know and get rid of those small trees as soon as we can so we minimize our cost. Is that reasonable to think that that.

I

Is a more than a viable option, the the the large trees? The reason why I pinpointed that earlier was those are the ones that are gonna, be the first ones to cause most issues for the city: they're gonna be liability, trees, they're, the Boulevard trees, they're, the ones that have essentially a target their hazard trees. That's why I pointed on that. So that's why it's like you know this might be the kicker to start removing those now, but from a cost standpoint.

I

If you have a five inch diameter ash tree that you know it's still pretty small I mean you could send out part. You know a part-time staffer to cut it down. You wouldn't even have to dig it out and replace it with something other than that, reducing your account and your species count for ash trees. There are many municipalities that go that route, but you have to do both sides of it from a stand here. Talking about not only a species.

I

Diversity important, so is age diversity, so you don't want them to all be the same age.

I

So I mean yes that that would that is an option, but you want to be able to do both, or you probably should do both now the disposal, the city will have to denote a certain area so once once a city is under quarantine, so let's say: okay, we've located I'll, give your same example: only I'm gonna use the Northside okay, we found it in the Northside well from our standards.

I

Watertown is Watertown, so it will literally account everything within 15 miles, so whether that means taking all of the ash disposal out to the dump site. That is, that is where it's gonna have to go. The best-case scenario is to chip it and it needs to be smaller than one by one inch pieces and most commercial chippers chip, it a much larger than that, and so then the next option is to chip it and then burn it.

I

I know that some places have chipped it, and then they spread it out as much as they can, because then it increases the amount of winterkill that happens with the insect that overwinters in those chips.

I

But once it's once it's here, no matter, if it's on the south side or the north side, the big thing is to make sure wherever all of the branches are going, it's all going to the same spot and then the other part of that is say.

I

You have a block of trees and the middle one has thermal ash borer and everything out on the outsides of it doesn't don't remove all of those trees because, like I said why, when I started is that insect is very lazy, it's not gonna go farther than it has to it might stay on the same tree. It might jump to the next one. If you remove all of the trees within that block, it now has to go, find food and it will do so and cities I know Cincinnati had this issue.

I

That was their approach to it was, let's remove anything, that's even close to a an infected tree and they increased their the spread rate tenfold. So it's as they die, remove the does.

L

The beetle do they: how long do they live in a tree? That's been cut down and disposed of in peace. Do they live in that for a period of time, or do they just say? No, it's drying up dying and I'm out of here. The.

I

Larvae that are in there can overwinter and live for up to two years. So that's why cutting it into a smaller pieces as possible is the best option or burning it.

J

How do you tell if you have if, if you have a tree, that's in fact is it start dying. So.

I

There's a couple indicators that we've seen the first one is canopy thinning and it's very specific, canopy thinning because we're starting to see that a lot right now, there's some other issues across the state that are all native insect issues, but the big one is canopy thinning with blondie. So essentially what happens is the woodpeckers are trying to find the larva underneath the bark and they will peel the bark all the way off the tree?

I

Then, if you see significant blondie on the ash trees, that's when someone calls me and says hey, can you come out and take a look at my tree and I come out and play the part of the so I? Don't really know if it's infected or not and I, take samples and then send it off to dr. ball to have it certified because that same reason we don't want to spread panic, but the biggest thing is yes.

I

Send us pictures send us these things, but it takes someone who knows what they're looking for to really see to really find it. The larva is a big thing. If you find an adult, it's that's the smoking gun, but the other thing is the D shaped holes. The D shaped exit holes. If you see those on the trunk, that's another one of those very, very good indicators.

I

Now one of the things that have we've always been told is, if you think it's D shaped it's not, but if it is a crisp, D shaped exit hole, there's a pretty good chance as there Milosh more, but there are a lot of little things we got to look at before we can before we really start to to hone in on it.

I

Even since it was certified found in Sioux Falls, my phone really hasn't stopped ringing and I can't I don't have the ability to to go to every single tree, so I have people email me pictures or text me pictures and the go from there, because there's a lot of other insects out there. That can be similar, but not the same.

I

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E

Now, if you go through, I live in that dreaded south side. Okay, so you can go past Road after row after road after road, where every Boulevard tree every single tree is an ash tree. You know and I think we've had people in that have called and said: they're, not gonna cut down the whole black. Are they you know, and what are they going to put in and they're concerned about sizes of trees and I know you mentioned just take the middle one out. That makes sense to me.

E

You know, and what kind of trees are being replaced. I'm asking a lot of questions while I have a chance, and so what kind of trees are you using to be replaced? And then also you said, Aberdeen has been doing this for a while.

E

Are they growing trees ahead of time, so they can put a fairly good sized trees in I mean what are some things that we can do so that once we have to cut down, you know ten trees on a block or a two block period. You know if space people are gonna say: oh my gosh we've lost all our shade. You know that type of thing, so I guess I'm asking you know. What's the best course, then ash borer is here: we cut down the center tree.

E

Oh six, trees down, there's another one because, like I said it's all ash.

E

So can you just kind of give us a little idea of what we would do so that pretty soon we don't have these streets with no shade I lived through the gem in Waukee yeah and we lost every single tree on every single block and you know I have that image in my head, you know and so I think people would like to know what's going to happen to their black and the dreaded Southside I know once their trees that have been affected by the board other than the options we've talked about. So.

I

For those that saw Dutch elm, this is the same thing is we had all elm trees because they were wonderful and they grew here had Dutch elm, let's replace them with something. What do we replaced them with? Well, this is now come full circle. We've replaced them all with ash, and so the big thing is like I said: diversity is going to be your big thing and I've been working with Jay in terms of a species list for his for the parks.

I

The big thing is going to be location and suitability, and so to give you a list of three species. Now isn't gonna, do any good, but but to literally provide I mean it'll come down to the city, will have I, mean I'm sure you have tree ordinances that as it is, you know, it'll be. These are the trees you can you're gonna be able to plant within the boulevards. These are the trees that you can plant under utilities and that's something I can help develop in the future.

I

But the big thing in terms of what you can do is probably start now. That is it's good, because when it gets here, that's what's gonna happen is it's gonna go. The whole block is just gonna, be decimated. I know.

E

That we have been a fairly proactive in taking down some of those trees. You were talking about that, except for the one in my backyard. You guys haven't gotten to that one yet, but but but the look of it is just a whole big area of no trees, because they've all been affected by wet roots and things like that so they're damaged trees.

E

I would wouldn't mind having help with a plan of you know, kind of how to make sure that we retreat our city in a way that you know it should have probably been done without ash tree after ash tree, but also like I, said I get calls people saying you know they see that on the agenda and we're lash bore on the agenda and they're like are we gonna lose all the trees on our block and I? Just you know.

E

Here's some good news about treating and things like that or losing one tree versus the whole block right. So yeah.

I

The the short answer is yes, you will eventually lose all those trees in what time frame is the bigger question and how you proactively go about replacing them is the next question. Part of my job is to help cities with this kind of thing, so I would have no problem working with the city to help develop. That plan have.

A

The nursery's stopped selling ash trees.

I

They now that it's been found in South Dakota. They can't have it as a nursery stock. There's.

A

A nice little one I just planted recently yeah.

I

And it's one of those things where the nurseries I mean. That's. Why that's why I have people talk to me is because I'm neutral I'm not trying to make money off of a tree and there's the nurseries. I mean I'm, not knocking the nurseries, but I mean they're gonna.

I

If they can sell a tree, they're gonna sell a tree, but I've been working with a lot of them to say: hey, you should probably stop, and there are many nurseries in the state that if and I know the tree farm here in town there, that's one of the things that they're on their way out is stop. They can you can't keep playing it. I know places like Walmart, Menards, you're still gonna find them there, because they're corporate, and we really can't stop that. But once city ordinances are involved, saying hey you can no longer.

I

Would you recommend that absolutely yeah yep, absolutely no more ash trees, yeah, that's I, mean in terms of I mean you're you're at a stocking rate of approximately forty percent ash trees. There are cities in the state that are almost up to 70, you know and when we're looking at wanting to see 10% we're talking a lot of trees, yeah.

A

But you're recommending don't don't take them all out at the same time, take them a little.

I

Bit, there's some age, diversity and age, diversity and species diversity, and you know what species where you know. That's to answer those kinds of questions. That's something I can help with in the future and.

A

This emerald ash borer won't go to a maple tree or or something else.

I

It is very, it is so specific. It will only touch ash trees and there it has to be within the fraxinus genus. So people think, oh, like mountain ash. Well, that's that's a common name, so it's not gonna touch mountain ash.

A

That's what I had yep it.

I

Won't touch that, thank you yep! Well, can it no yeah, don't don't got that one down, it has to be within the fraxinus genus, they're, very, very specific to that. Okay,.

A

So don't jump to conclusions be careful, maybe consulta yep, a specialist.

I

Yep, the big thing right now is for everyone to just take a deep breath, because the way it's been very panicky the last couple of weeks, you know- probably that's probably why I'm here, but as long as a plan is developed, you know the city's, not gonna, be inundated with cost and I know, that's gonna, be probably the biggest thing is the cost incurred with this. Well.

A

Yeah, like you said, we can spread it out, get those weak ones. First, yep anybody else have any questions. Adam John.

F

You say: there's 39 percent, roughly of our tree population is ash. Approximately. You know how many trees, roughly that is, is it 5,000 mm, so.

I

All we have, we have something called a sea tap board, it's community threat assessment program and, of course, water town being at the bottom of the alphabet. By the time our funding came through for each community to do this report. To do this inventory, they ran out at the middle of Watertown, and so we only have a partial Watertown inventory done, but in that inventory it wasn't done in one particular spot in the city.

I

It was done throughout and that's approximately that's why I say it's approximately 39% and my guess is that's about three to four thousand trees that are ash trees. It could be more it's one of those things where it might benefit the city to do a proper inventory, to figure out exactly what those numbers are and I know.

I

There are some sub because I, even the Department of Agriculture, subcontracted out that job, and so instead of having all of our staff doing all these city inventories, they actually had another company coming in and do them for us, because it's it's literally just someone on the ground pinging it to me with a GPS marking the species.

I

But then that might get that'll give you a much more accurate number us to do a very in-depth inventory, because right now all we have is a very approximate number for the city of Watertown. Okay,.

F

A

Anyone else this was very informative. Thank you very much for coming, but no.

M

A

No Beth, you have to give that baby back.

A

All right, the next item on the agenda is the proposed lease agreement with John and Brenda Yost for fixed-base operator services at the Watertown Regional, Airport and I will go ahead and open the public hearing and ask Matt or Chris to give a little introduction about. This looks like Matt. Well, while.

G

Todd's not here this evening, but basically this is the the lease agreement that will replace our previous. Let the to operate are fixed based operation at the airport.

J

N

J

Has changed from the prior release? Nothing.

G

J

N

J

You be more specific.

G

We did change the names of course, but we actually I will take that back. We did we did allow in the lease they had requested that they be allowed to have one or two extra fueling mobile fueling vehicles. So we did make the change to allow that in the lease.

B

Okay, Glen ma'am. Maybe this is a Todd question, but it's fairly long-term 24 years. Is that fairly typical for lease of this nature.

G

You know I'm not entirely certain why that lease term was chosen last time. Does anybody on the council recall.

B

And I've gotten a problem. I just didn't know if that was if that was a norm for phrase.

A

Of this nature, so yeah, apparently we copied it from the last one correct.

G

A

Which didn't last the full right.

A

Is there anyone else that would like to ask a question or make a comment see: none I will close the public hearing and look for a motion for approval so.

F

A

Move by Councilwoman ante and second by Councilman Albertson any discussion, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying nay motion carries yes item, yes, good. Look item number six is application for a special retail malt beverage and wine license to the Watertown Area Chamber of Commerce from 5:00 p.m. until 9 p.m. on Thursday, June, 7 2018 for the wine and beer walk event and I will open the public hearing and I know we have Tim Sheen's in the audience in case there are any questions about the event itself.

A

Is there anyone here that would like to speak about this four against.

A

None I will close the public hearing and look for a motion for approval, so moved.

N

A

Cosman l'olam second, by councilman bill. How are any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye? Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries. Can.

E

I ask a quick question, sure Tim: how many do we have more people participating this year than last year or about the same.

O

O

E

You have to say your name, yes,.

O

I'm Tim chin with the chamber. We.

E

Do have nigger's.

O

20 but I think one of them is just Orion work for a shirt and they won't be serving alcohol. You just go up and they can blow so you can see. What's your blood alcohol, your breath, alcohol I, don't know they call blood alcohol when you blow but just kind of a novelty thing to see what your alcohol content will be, but that's it yeah, there's new ones, but the same number yeah yeah. How.

P

Many tickets Tim did. You is.

O

This event will sell 300 yeah no more than 300. We run out of liquor at that time. Hopefully just.

E

Don't sell any to Bruce, do you have more left? We.

O

E

O

And this is the time we doubled up today. What we had we had, what we had for the week, so Tuesday Wednesday Thursday will be big yeah and we will sell always deal, especially with the weather. There's gonna be as nice as it is so yeah, yes, yep. Yes,.

A

Gonna be awesome thanks. Jim item number seven is resolution: number 18, 22 annexing olive place, addition to the municipality of Watertown, Coddington, County, South, Dakota and I will look for a motion and second for approval, so second moved by Councilman Bueller second by Councilman, l'olam and Brandi. Hampton is here to give us an introduction. Thank.

Q

You mayor, so this goes hand in hand with agenda item number 8 as well the annexation and zoning. This is that old tree farm property and I can pull it up here on GIS.

Q

That I'm sure you guys are familiar with, as you had the first reading. So the petitioners are Robert and Catherine eared again, and they are the owners of the property. They submitted their application and petition on April 13th, requesting approval for the annexation zoning and they plan to bring that in as our one single-family residential district, the Planning Commission recommended annexation and zoning to Council on May 10th, and then the Park Board recently approved cash in lieu with an additional five foot.

Q

Easement requests on the west property edge coming to the amount, and so that cash in lieu would come to the amount of five thousand nine hundred and thirty dollars and twenty six cents and- and that was at the May 29th meeting.

Q

Some other I mean adjacent zoning. It's all in line.

Q

So we have our two on the east and west and then our three to the north, and then this will be our one they're planning on just developing it with one the Olive house in on that property, which will be six point. Six four acres being brought in they're, also they'll, be bringing in a plat for word that you guys can anticipate seeing that and as well as the development agreement and.

A

The annexation will be automatically rescinded in three years if they don't play any other questions or comments about this.

A

So you know I, don't look for action all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying nay motion carries item number eight is ordinance number 18, oh six, amending zoning district boundaries by rezoning olive place addition and I will open the public hearing. If there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak about this, now is the time and Brandie had already explained the zoning I.

A

Don't see anybody so I'll close the public hearing and look for a motion for approval moved by Cosman l'olam second by Councilman, why any discussion see none all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries item number. Nine is the perpetual turnaround easement granted to the city of Watertown for 17th Avenue southeast, and this is not actually a resolution, but in agreement, so I will look for a motion to authorize the mayor to sign the agreement for the turnaround moved by Councilwoman, manty and second by Councilman Solem.

A

Do you want to talk about this? A little bit Colin.

R

Sure this is this is what we've requested, and this went through playing Commission as well, and they also approved it contingent upon this turnaround easement.

R

This is required for some removal emergency vehicles, the general public that will could possibly use this down there and then turn around because we've vacated the the West portion of this.

A

And this is being vacated, hysterics is going to infringe into the right-of-way which won't be needed if they're building out there. So any questions comments all right, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify were saying, nay, motion carries item number 10 is the plat, a Willow Creek. Fourth edition resolution number 18 26 look for a motion, second for approval, moved by Councilman, Danforth and second by Councilman, l'olam Brandi. You want to tell us about this. Yeah.

Q

Thank you, so the plat that you have in front of you is Willow Creek, Village fourth edition, and it also just recently, was Riis owned. Some of the included portions of their plat that rezone from R 3 to R 1, which is shown up here on the G, is the petitioner is Donald Andrus and he is the president of Willow Creek Village. Fourth edition submitted the plat it'll include 8 r1, single-family residential lots and to our three multi-family residential lots.

N

Q

Like I said here, we went through the reasonable process and then to fulfill the park dedication for this plat. We have the out lot, a which is down in this area along Willow Creek and then to make it contiguous and so we're able to record it. They also planted the out lot a and then included an access easement so that either maintenance or people are able to cross through the private properties to get to the now public park. I didn't.

A

Think that out lot was being planted. It's not included on the plat, as in their listing of areas being planted, we've got in the areas in block one our lot one, two, three four, five, six, seven eight and areas in block two are one and two and that's out like so and in the surveyors here.

A

Justin Wells, you want to come up and tell us about this. I did not include that lot in the calculation for the pro rata share, because I did not think it was included with the plat.

A

Because it doesn't say it's not listed on the face of the plat I see the corners there, but they're all touching other parts of the flat that are being recorded.

Q

Yeah because there's not setting pins.

S

The square footage for the O latte is actually listed under the title for the a Lodi up in the up on the face of the drawing, not not not in the table in the corner. So.

A

It is the intention to plat the out lot, a as part of this plat. Yes,.

S

A

Then we need to revise the pro rata share, which is on another that will be in the development agreement. I thought.

Q

That we were okay with it, because they're not subdividing it at this time that we just left that note in that no.

A

It's if it's being part of the plat, then it needs to happen now, because that's the time to do it, it's when it's being plaited it'll be replanted with another subdivision in the future. I thought it was just being left out, so I mean that's, not a big deal. We can do that by emotion that it gets revised to include that.

A

So not a problem, I just.

Q

A

Realize that was part of the Platte.

A

How would you know Justin I mean if you've got a piece of land was just surrounded by pieces that are being plaited and it completely, you know, hits every corner. How do you know if it's included in the plat or not.

A

It says 10 the number of acres, probably total somewhere yeah.

S

It does save nine nineteen point, seven, eight acres and and.

A

That includes that, so, if you did the math, it would work out right. I didn't do the.

S

Math and it is shaded shaded in solid in the vicinity map as part of the.

A

Truth true good point: I did not catch that. Okay, oh no cuz! It's part of the plan I just the development agreement will be a separate action and then we'll have to make it comment about that. So, thank you. Would you have a motion? Is there any more discussion question.

L

A

L

From the city standpoint at this point, the land that's being dedicated for the park. Dedication is there? Is there a plan for that at this point, or is it just something in the future? Where we're saying, let's, let's get that because I think it Sun developable from them anyway, is that it I'm just trying to understand where that's I.

A

Don't think there's a written plan other than it's a nature area and they had ideas of doing a bridge some day and extending the bike path. Okay,.

D

A

To it, so people can have access to the creek so.

L

From at least from their standpoint, they've had some strategic high-level looks at that and.

A

The park board- I, don't know, I wasn't there for their discussion if they were talked.

Q

About that and this one was approved in 2013, but I believe that the plan for this whole Willow Creek area would be to extend a walkability park throughout all of that I'll I'll buy it.

A

It isn't intended to be mowed or anything like that. It's in a natural state now and I, don't think it's being mowed, so it won't be planting it with Bermuda grass or anything like that is.

N

L

Should put some ash trees in there I think.

Q

It's more so than we're just trying to reserve the land so that they are meeting their Park dedication requirement is.

F

It going to be usable all the time or is this a flooded area? It.

Q

Is within the floodplain, but this it's not all encompassed by the floodway, so there is potential for some development. I mean parking, lots bike trail things of that nature.

A

Any other questions all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries item number 11 is authorization for the mayor to sign a development agreement for the plat of Willow Creek Village 4th edition with Willow Creek, Development, Inc and I would add the caveat that the pro rata share.

A

Part of the development agreement is verified to be correct before the what the documents are recorded it will someone make that motion. Okay,.

F

Second, motion.

A

By dam, fourth and second bylaw with.

L

Your caveat yes,.

A

Thank you any questions or discussion.

A

Anything you want to point out about the development agreement, brandy, its unique I.

Q

Did have a few.

A

Q

So we do have in there about the park dedication that they're dedicating park out lot, a of Willow Creek fourth edition to meet its Park dedication requirement after the Park Board's decision to accept that donation of land on June, 25th 2013 and then also as the mayor had alluded to, that the developer agrees to pay the pro rata share of the cost recovery for land acquisition associated with the implementation of the Willow Creek tributaries drainage master plan prior to the recording of the plat.

Q

This has been calculated to be four thousand five hundred and twenty dollars and eleven cents, but is subject to change based on consumer price index. At the time of plotting and.

A

I saw having that one lakh yeah, and that is a huge lot. Yeah.

Q

Yeah- and we will well verify that it's correct.

A

Yeah that that one lot is bigger than everything else combined, so that'll be that'll, make a difference. I hope the developer is okay with that and I that totally just went past. My radar I took it off. I even wrote the note not included I.

Q

Thought that we were going to wait until it was Reese I'm divided, but we can no.

A

We've been doing every single one of these as soon as they plat, and that was what the council authorized in 2004. So that's what we've been doing. We haven't postponed it on any of them. It's just hard. If it's been plaited to remember to go back when they reap lat, it's just easier to catch it. On the first time around yeah, it will have an impact on that dollar.

A

B

Somebody explain me: cuz, I am I guess this is the first time I've seen this. Can somebody explain what the pro rata share of land acquisition cost is I mean I'd.

A

Be happy to please: okay, all up and down the corridor, the city purchased ponds and creeks along with land. Next to it, the unnamed it's it's an unnamed tributary to Willow Creek. There was a study done probably 15 or 20 years ago about how to manage the drainage in this undeveloped corridor and the council looked at alternatives and how to manage it.

A

This includes that what we call Cherry Creek, which runs next to Cherry Drive, that's tributary, that land that the Creek flows through was purchased with taxpayer dollars between I think the earliest purchase was the year 2000 through 2004 or around in that time range and the the dollar amount spent was all calculated out and determined by the council that it would be recovered as the adjacent Platts occurred up and down the watershed, so as soon as land Platts or develops.

A

If it's already planted land and they come in for a building permit, if they haven't paid their pro rata share, we collect it from them and we're gradually getting back hundreds of thousands of dollars that the city spent to purchase that those lands were not donated to the city we bought them, and so everybody that drains to the tributaries or to the ponds is paying their pro rata share of the cost to acquire the land. So that's why we call it pro rata share, and it's just you know.

A

Each development is of a tiny little piece. The council did adopt a policy to do that and the dollar amount is inflated along with the Consumer Price Index, so that we're getting actual dollar $2, because it's been a long time- and you know what the money was back then compared to what it was. What it is now is so in the total value of the land. Acquisition in 2006 was seven hundred twenty two thousand dollars.

A

That's what we paid in tax dollars to purchase all this land and the current value is eight hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars. So that's based upon the Consumer Price Index.

B

A

Every all in that green area was what we're collecting back tributary to the land that we purchased, and so some of that green is not tributary. Like this little park that was planted tonight flows the runoff from that flows directly to Willow Creek. We did not acquire anything between that land and the creek. So there's no pro rata pro rata share on that piece, but if it drains back to the pond or into one of those corridors that we purchased, they pay back the city.

A

So we put the dollars up front and they're paying us back, and that was at the same time that the City Council made a decision to leave that corridor open and undeveloped, and they looked at the alternatives of enclosing the the drainage, which is what a lot of people would like to do. That was one of the alternatives that was considered. It was probably the most expensive alternative and we knew that at the time it would have.

A

You know, been probably another million dollars to the cost of managing this corridor in the City Council decided at that time to leave it in an open state. Knowing full well that people would complain that it's a wetland and that you know they want it mowed and they want to fill them and close with a pipe. So we got to remind ourselves throughout time of the council's original intent for that land, which was to have a natural corridor that has wetland benefits of cleaning.

A

The water and flood control benefits those sort of things, yep right, good question, Glen, any other questions or comments. I did get a motion right. We got one talk too much all right, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify the say, nay motion, carries item number 12 is the plat of east side. Addition resolution number 18 27, look for a motion, second, move by Councilwoman manty.

A

Second, by Councilman, l'olam and brandy. You wanna tell us what this one is: yep.

Q

Thank you. The petitioner is Rex Gerber and the representative for Eastside Investments LLC in the owner of the property here on the GS that you guys are looking at we're talking about these two previously plotted. Lots are now owned by the same developer same owner, so he's just replanting it to move a utility easement to the back of his property, because how the easements were currently plaited. They broke it up, making this back portion of the property unusable, so he's just going through the process.

Q

There's no infrastructure improvements, which is why we're not we didn't, include a development agreement, but just because we are moving a utility easement and relocating it. But that's why you guys are seeing it Brandon.

F

Is there gonna be issues with that? Is there any utilities running in there? Now they.

Q

Have been working with waterto municipal utilities, and they there was. There was over overhead lines and then now they're putting them on underground on the back property line and.

A

There is a little piece as much smaller utility easement being retained, ten feet or something right.

N

A

F

Where was it before, if you could so.

Q

When this this used to be old, railroad property, so then there was an easement along that property line there. Okay.

D

Q

Then so now they are moving it to run here on the back side of it. So then, they're able to you know use.

N

A

Okay, all right any other questions, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying knee motion carries. I November 13 is the first reading of ordinance number 18 o8 amending the zoning district boundaries for a portion of lot three and four of North Ridge addition and there's no action required on this. Just a first reading. Some brandy, you want to explain what it is: yep.

Q

Thank you, the petitioner on this rezoning application is Travis MOG and he is the owner of the property. So he's looking at selling this property and when he came in to ask some questions, it does have two Zoning designations, so we have C 2, which is local commercial district and then C 3, which is highway commercial and he would like to rezone it. So it's all able to be used for 2 C, 3, highway commercial.

Q

Currently, there's a car wash as a use on the property and I do not believe that they plan to change the use just wanted to know, or they just want to make I guess, yeah consistent or having having one zoning designation to adhere to is.

F

There an issue with the neighbors at all to the east, though, or an indifferent zoning I.

Q

Do not hear from those adjacent neighbors, but I did from the north and the west, and they don't have any issues. It's still. The c2 does still allow for some transition. Zoning. So okay.

A

Any other questions all right. Thank you. Brandy. Item number 14 is authorization for the mayor to sign a petition for vacation of the right-of-way abutting, the Watertown Regional Landfill to the West, 456 Avenue, and so I'll look for a motion and second for approval.

K

A

By Councilwoman, Mantee and second by Councilman, Albertson- and this is the city would be signing the petition for vacation. We would not be vacating this because it's not in the city limits, but we own the landfill, which has the right-of-way adjacent to it. So we are an adjacent property owner in order for that to be vacated, 100% of the adjacent property owners have to sign the petition, and so that is yeah we're not a hundred percent, but we what's that the city has no issue with this. The city being this is our landfill.

A

This this doesn't harm our landfill in any way to have this done, and the property owner on the other side same they just like to farm right up to the property line. Matt, do you want to add anything.

G

No I, don't have anything to add. Mayor Mike Mike came in and dropped this on my desk. He could speak more intelligently to it, but Mike's not here this evening, so he seemed to think it was a great idea, though so I got.

A

That drift from him too any questions. Okay, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries item number 15 is consideration of application for a sidewalk cafe for Tommy's lanes, and this would be including the entire right-of-way from camp Avenue to the south boundary of Tommy's lanes projecting across the right-of-way and I. Hopefully we have a map on that. You can bring up in the agenda.

A

So you can see what we're talking about here, the very last okay and I'll, look for a motion and second for approval, and we can talk about it by Coffman down for a second by Qasim and why all right, a sidewalk cafe permit normally, would just include the room, the sidewalk, but the City Council has the ability to extend that cafe, permit out to include the whole right-of-way, which is what was included in the motion here, because the intention of this is to use it for Thursday Night Live, so the show Mobile would be set up in the same location that it has been in years past, just on the south side of camp, a Venusian maple, and so then everything south of the show mobile down to the south boundary of tommy's lanes would be in the sidewalk cafe and in years past it was the sidewalk cafe of the gas that was being used for this event, but they're not open.

A

So Tommy's already had a liquor license. They didn't have a sidewalk cafe. So if this is approved, they will have a sidewalk cafe and the council will have extended it from not.

N

A

Sidewalk, but to include the entire right-of-way.

A

F

There one more page, one more page, so the guys already had that.

A

More one more right there, okay, that one so.

F

There's already a sidewalk cafe allowed from the corner to.

A

Right, but they don't have the ability to serve liquor there. Okay,.

F

So I need somebody.

A

With both a sidewalk cafe and an active so.

F

Will people be able to walk between the.

A

Two of them well.

F

Then there's no issue with that right.

N

F

P

G

Can walk between the two? Oh, not.

A

In some on the sidewalk I.

G

Mean the sidewalk cafe will start on the south end of Tommy's and go all the way to camp right.

F

It's already on there for the gas area.

G

You know this well, this said so the gas is no longer in operation currently, so this sidewalk cafe permit will include the area that was previously encompassed by the gases sidewalk cafe. Permit can.

F

They do that when they don't own that other property.

E

A

Sidewalk, your favorite sweet land right.

N

F

Property with the guy's property, they have a sidewalk cafe right.

G

F

But they're not in business anymore, stay in effect.

G

Currently, it's not in effect, so.

A

This is this is our right way, though. The guy.

G

Says it on the wheel, so you your.

A

Motion is all of the right-of-way I'm.

F

Just making sure from a legal side that we they.

A

Don't know all they had a sidewalk cafe so.

G

The sidewalk cafe is allowed within the property lines of the business going out and as the council, you can authorize up basically an extension of that, and so this it would go from the south end of Tommy's up to Kim. Okay,.

F

That's what I wanted right sure we're okay.

G

With right, we're.

F

Not using one person, it's not in business and somebody else's right.

G

Yep, so this has nothing to do with the guys that office.

F

Will be timing, sidewalk.

G

Cafe per man yeah, where.

L

Does this pertain only to the Thursday Night Live thing, or could they have tables and chairs out there like the other locations? Do now? That's.

A

A really good question, like I, can't answer that I don't know that they'd ever want to set up in the middle of the street. Well,.

L

I'm talking about on the sidewalk, this specifically says sidewalk. Oh.

A

This this sidewalk cafe would not be just for Thursday Night Live for Tommy's Tommy's will now have a sidewalk cafe permit and it won't be. We.

L

Could be out there now if you wanted to yeah my only point in bringing that up and it really isn't Tommy's, but we have very, very low standards and what a sidewalk cafe is and how it looks and I've been into a number of other communities that look you could tell their standards are much higher. We need to take a look at that part of our ordinance and we need to raise the bar ours.

L

There are many of ours that look just terrible and we're better off not having them than we are to look like we do in certain cases. I would just like that to be looked at from a staff at a council standpoint matter of record and.

E

I think even some minimum standards can make it look really nice and not cause a physic or a financial burden on the business owner having the white chain versus rope and having poles versus spools. You know industrial spools, so I think that Mike's point is really well taken to work with them. On that.

A

Yes, any other comments or questions.

A

All right, let's make sure that skipping something see. None I'll, look for action, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries item number 16 is authorization for the mayor to sign an agreement with infrastructure, Design Group Inc for the lake and Pesce final loop trail improvements, phase, 1, so I'll look for a motion, second, for approval, moved by Councilman ville. Our second way, councilman, l'olam and I, see Vanessa Victor from infrastructure. Design group is here and Jada. Laying apart director is here.

N

A

I will let you folks tell us about this.

D

Well, as you know, for the past several months, infrastructure has been doing a design and we review.

N

D

Remainder of the trail, around Lake compassed, gets about three point, seven miles in length and that is coming to an end. They are going to give a final presentation Friday evening, and so that'll be really really exciting. I think is nearly nearly finalized got a couple more people to talk to, but coming along real good, and their proposal before you tonight is to take the next step and actually put some trail start plans to put some trail on the ground around Lake Camp Eska. This would involve the east side of the trail and it's exciting.

D

It has been recommended by the Park and Rec board and I'll. Let Vanessa describe it a little further Thank.

T

You Jay Thank, You counsel. The response that we got for the trail project was actually just phenomenal well-received by everybody or on the lake. Everybody wants the trail, not necessarily not necessarily everybody doesn't want in their front yard, but everybody wants a trail. We had commented compared to other communities. The the community support and the public outreach has been highly well attended. So I feel, like the trail that we all unveil on Friday is a well received plan that people feel that they have buy-in.

T

Now we're looking at the next phase and that's the logical question. Well now you have a plan. When is this gonna happen we're too late and the design season to get anything done yet in this calendar year, but we could hit the ground running pretty well in the beginning of 2019, so we're looking to start design now, so we can get actual survey out. The plan was based off of your lidar photogrammetry data, which is two foot contours. It gives us a pretty good idea, but you know there's still some fine tooth.

T

Contour and elevation data that we need to figure out and then we'll have bid ready plans by December so hopefully get constructing first part of next spring. Excellent.

A

And J we have the money in the budget right. Yes,.

D

In there to twelve accounter for recreational trails, we we do have I would say after the projects we have in place for this year, we should have about six hundred and forty five thousand dollars remaining. So we got a nice nest egg to start this project out great.

A

L

What are we actually committing to here if.

A

L

We, if we haven't seen the the plan that you said it's gonna, get laid out on Friday Friday, we're by the way at the event center at six o'clock. Okay,.

L

So if we haven't seen that- and it so does this just is this for a segment of the design of what needs all be completed and then what's your company estimated dollars of that? Is that what we have budgeted for, so those two match up? They.

T

Do so behind the scenes project advisory meetings? Basically the trail, the three point: seven miles to complete the trail has been divvied up into four different phases and we're trying to use the available funds as wisely as possible when we go to federal highway, no different than when I talk to you about bridge projects and federal highway projects. There's those rules there's a lot of rules on how you purchase land there's a lot of rules on how you purchase easements, there's rules on mailboxes.

T

So we tried to find segments where the funding would fit. So the first phase that we are laying out is by pump Eska Drive and basically takes us to the southern region of the trail and that's a first phase before we get into wetlands, which wetlands would create a need for additional time for just permitting. So we wanted. We want to make an impact and really get some trail constructed. So that would be a logical phase.

T

2 phase 3 would be primed for federal, highway or game fish and parks grant money to apply and there's a process involved with that. But there's not a lot of encroachments. It's a pretty easy stretch and it looks good on paper for for funding and so that funding process also takes like three years.

T

If we choose to proceed that with that right now and then the fourth phase is actually by Park View Drive, which will be striping a shared path on the existing roadway, which engineering has agreed that that road actually needs to be redone anyway. So we'll just do that all as one. So it is a pretty collaborative effort of trying to utilize your dollars wisely as possible.

L

Thank you sure what we're signing up to yeah.

T

I'm trying not to get the dread.

L

T

Of the bag number.

L

T

Veiling is really on Friday, but I understand the need of.

A

T

More information in.

A

This contract is thirty: nine thousand eight hundred seven twenty right, yeah.

T

B

Bill are it's, maybe not an appropriate question to ask in light of what we're acting on tonight, but as you go through your various phases? Well in the fourth phase, is the Park View Drive area? Well,.

Q

Where does that.

N

B

Us as far as a little segment in Memorial Park, what word ends before it gets to Park View Drive. It is that part of that fourth phase, or there was some talk about maybe trying to get that done sooner rather than later.

T

B

T

Glen you're pretty active in the project, Advisory Committee. The numbers are just that they're numbers. So if engineering has in there at their budget to jump on phase four and 2019, then maybe we get two segments done at the same time. It's just it's a matter of their budget, your budget and his budget and how it all comes together. But just trying to logically look at it from a funding standpoint, which made more sense, are.

A

You specifically asking about that little snippet of 50 feet or whatever it.

B

Is in Memorial Park right, yeah.

A

Do you know Jay, are we gonna throw some asphalt on that not.

D

In the plans right now, we were you know: I was kind of thinking that would go with the Park View Drive work when, when we did, that is what we're talking about it. They committed.

A

Levels, so you put that with that phase, yeah.

D

A

And I'll just say: I used to take that route with my bike, even before it was paved, it's beefed up section of sewer access road with grass growing on it, so very firm, hard surface without asphalt on it. So it isn't like you, come to the edge of the asphalt and you have to get off your bike and carry it through the swamp to get to the road. It's you know it isn't ideal. Maybe, but it's also not terrible.

A

That's been long enough.

F

So you said from fountain, Pesce I would take that to the south and along South Lake drives that we're looking at.

T

Yes, well from pump s Co, where the trail ends.

T

Yeah, thank you. I'm.

F

Just trying to visualize where we.

T

Are actually going through a cornfield? This was also a part of the public. Like I said everybody really likes. The trail wants a trail and nobody wants in their backyard. Ideally, we try to avoid putting trails and cornfields. However, from a safety aspect, it's phenomenal.

T

The people who own this land are all about. The trail believe that they would like to develop it eventually and it adds value to their property. The whole idea, however, about a trail around the lake, is that people can see the lake, but even if you continue on South Lake Drive there, those Lots are so long that you really can't see the lake from the roadway anyway and there's.

A

A pretty big hill up.

T

A

So it's actually this.

T

Area right here, which is the the trickiest part for us to design around, we are actually cutting it back about 50 feet from where currently ends to pick up the trail, because there's also a huge hill right here and.

F

That would go down like the 4th Avenue row. Please have like phase one I'm just trying.

T

To phase one ends right here: okay, so and then right here we start with our wetlands. So you see 4th.

A

Avenue on them.

T

Yeah I do sorry. This is I should have gotten all of them by 17 I apologize. So.

F

Are we gonna cut through someone's yard? Yes,.

T

Everybody who has been impacted beyond the right away on this project has been talked to. So if, if we're putting the trail on the right away, you might not have gotten a personal visit, but if we're extending behind beyond that right away, you you got to see him me in your driveway so and that did slow up the process a little bit just because we have people that their cabins.

F

It's gonna cut across it's gonna, be on the west side of Salt, Lake Drive, then, or we we're cutting across and then coming back. Yeah.

N

F

Against we're gonna have two points where we have to to.

T

Cross the crossing that's more to going to get an access easement from Arnold construction and he is onboard with crossing there, but when, like people crossing behind all the sheds with all of this bullying and random, and really when you get right here, you have some sight issues. Yeah.

F

We're the water tolerance.

T

So it's not an opportune point to to cross and crossings in general aren't ideal. We have. If you compare to the trail, that is out there right now. We have minimized the numbers of crossings for this section by about half.

R

And as they both alluded to, we are trying to figure out if we can incorporate an engineering project and a trail project together to lessen the burden on just the trail funds and see if we can incorporate. Yes.

A

That's that's great appreciate that any other comments or questions alright I'll look for action, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying nay motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. Thank.

D

A

Item number 17 his authorization for the mayor to sign an agreement with the Watertown School District for use of the swimming pool at the Prairie lakes. Wellness Center look for a motion second for approval well by Councilwoman nanti second, by councilman Bueller any well. Let's see who's gonna talk about this Jay. Are you.

G

N

A

Oh Terry is Harry Kelly.

M

Any questions what this shows is I when we built upon the centum we're in the process of reviewing all user agreements lease agreements they used to be pertaining to the rec center. Now transferring the Wellness Center. This agreement we found went back from 1985 has never been touched.

M

It's spent of 20,000 our lease since that point, based on the fact that we've increased our cost four hundred twenty five percent on utilities and four hundred seventy five percent on chemicals to maintain the pool, we felt that our 33 years of non inflationary factor was time too approach the school for a little more assistance and truly the the product that we're giving him they were very open. They understood very easy negotiation where the number came from was a 1% annual inflationary factor which was definitely below the steep the consumer price index.

M

You don't want to know what the actual number was, but we did one year.

N

M

One percent based on 33 years came out to about 27,000, it's not completely written in the agreement, but we're kind of the under the assumption. We'll do a one percent annual inflationary factor as well. So that's where the 20 to 27 thousand came from and the school is very much in the support and understanding of it.

A

All right, councilman Danforth tell.

L

You why don't we tie it to this epi I mean we've got we're gonna we're gonna continue to fall behind and the value of the product that would give them a brand new facility. Our costs are going to go up on average higher than the 1%. There's no question about it. Why don't we tie it to something that everybody understands and it enables us to keep up with inflation.

M

You know with we're a year one.

N

M

The the X rec center Wellness Center, under the umbrella of the Park and Rec Department and I, think you're right. You know 33 years going without reevaluating, a an agreement was was an oversight and what we've tried to do with our new agreements is write them in the lease agreement to happen to have a true CPI inflationary factor, I think mayor. We did that maybe for the Lake area, tech, when I think we discussed using CPI.

M

You know on a on a three-year basis, so we don't every year, nickel and dime it, but every three years it'll renew to what that three-year CPI was. This is a starting point to at least get us to where we feel a fair market dollar is for that value of the pool. I mean it comes down to. We, we've got up to a hundred hours that they're allowed so really $270 per hour is actually fitting within our normal rent to look for the entire facility, but to your point, 1 percent annual.

M

You know what this rate does $270 next year that probably won't meet the true inflationary factor of what chemical costs are. Utility costs staffing cost things like that, but that can be renegotiated in the lease agreement before you says. Both parties can come back together and renegotiate this, but we just don't want to do this annually have to set both parties down to come up with that number, and that's where I like the fact.

M

If we do have an inflationary number written in the lease agreement so every year, when we do a billing for it, we know what it is, but.

L

We're building in a 1% at this.

M

Point, yes, it is 1%, but as accountant I mean that was the proposal school. If you look through the lease agreement that the school presented to us, it just says both parties will renegotiate as needed. So really it's not written in this current lease agreement within your packet. This.

A

Is just a one-year lease this.

M

Is a one-year at this point so.

A

Are you thinking by next year, we'll have an inflationary factor in a longer term, I.

M

Think, with councilman Dan force comments, I think that definitely should be reflected to have the conversation at least yeah.

L

There's a you know: we're we're over a year into this building. You know they're through one over one school season into the use of the facility right, and we know we know that our costs are a lot higher than what we projected as far as utilities and such I've also been.

L

There spend a lot of time there when, when those those kids from the middle school or whenever are coming in there, there is a fair amount of activity which is great to see, but there's also a fair amount of cost that goes with it from a maintenance and cleaning and caring for the facility. Wear and tear I just think it's so much easier. Inflation is inflation.

L

If there isn't any great, if there is a CPI index that that we can tie it to it's the best way to do it because it has a standard, we can use their real cost to us, so the quicker it I shouldn't say quicker. The sooner. We realize that in cases like this, that we we build these things in and we understand why we build them in, but less apt. We ought to have a 33 year pause of not addressing an issue as far as our costs are concerned and.

M

I think within the you know, within the park and Rec Department and all the leases we have, you know from all the associations to schools to everything else. You know worry Nina, Sedonas that at least a committee level to bring the board to recommend to the council to standardize that practice. You know that that may be anything from Lake area, tech, memberships to the Soccer Association using the field house.

M

Instead of renegotiating these with different numbers pulled out of the air, we have a standard policy that we based on CPI on an annual basis would make the most sense- and we can definitely take that at at a committee level to the park and Rec Department to come to you, with with the proposal to present to all these groups. So you're.

L

From now the this council who's ever on, this council will have a nether agreement in front of them because we won't remember to call Terry or Jay and say I think it's been a year. We should look at it right. Is that correct, I'm.

M

Gonna, quick, just look at the final terms on that Matt did you have anything when this was sent to us correct from the school attorney? Do you recall.

M

I'm just quick glance on for terms here.

G

It was not, it was not sent to me it's.

A

G

M

A one-year term so, yes, we will have to come back to you. Hopefully that terms we can use Matt to renegotiate our own language with the CPI, which makes more sense to me. It does.

L

M

A number that no one can argue with as.

L

Long as right now it's going to come back to us and I'm okay, but it just a recommendation going forward. We need to take a look at that and it's not you know anything that we do is not just parking wrecked, but if anything we've got to do where we do have these lease, where we should, where we have costs or incomes, we should have something in there. So yeah I mean just two little.

M

Little things here when we sign the contract 1985 the Aquatics portion of utilities we spend $47,000. Last year we spent two hundred forty-seven thousand. That's the difference. You know in chemical cost from the pool in 1985 was 2,800. Last year we spent 16,000.

M

So obviously you know those are the four hundred twenty-five hundred seventy five percent inflationary numbers. We gave you eight.

A

Times twenty is a hundred and sixty thousand yeah.

M

And that's why I said you know we use the CPI calculator. You know where you can punch in the number of was twenty thousand dollars and eighty five versus and I won't bring that number up and I. Don't think rec home wants me to bring that number.

A

So it was there in a valid agreement, or was it a one-year agreement from 1985 that we we.

N

A

Kept receiving their twenty thousand dollar check every year.

M

The way, the previous least look correct, that a sign without a term limitation it just basically both parties, it auto renewed unless either party gave us.

A

Sixteen, so we were out of compliance with.

M

No, no, it was not a renewable parties and at this point both parties, or at least our party, came to them and said we would like to at this point renegotiate. So, okay.

A

Other questions or comments all right look for action, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries item number eighteen is consideration of proposal for Great Planes sponsorships and, let's see we have. We have an agreement in the packet. Is that one we had a different one to handout right.

B

A

Is okay yeah one in the packet is good, then and I think I see Ryan's here and are you wanting to talk about this.

B

A

We make a motion: okay,.

B

I'll make the motion, but I guess you Matt you've got to tell me as far as what makes this legally binding. So we don't have a contract as such here, but but I will make the motion just to get the conversation on the floor to to go with option A, which includes an early option. The early-out option and the prorated monthly option is what I'm, what I would make the motion that we consider entering into.

A

Okay, so we have a motion by a councilman vill, our in a second by Councilwoman man T for option, a continuation of the current terms with the early out and a prorated monthly payment, all right and I. Guess it's open for discussion. I! Guess.

B

With that, I would invite Ryan if you want to step forward a couple of us that that have not met you over the course of past year.

B

Bruce Mike, Donna, Roby and I have worked most closely with you as well as a mayor. I. Guess we'd like to hear your comments, your thoughts as far as the past year, and you know where you suggest, or what you see, potentially in the relatively short term, going forward. If we do extend your contract.

U

Months or one quarter for us to consult, particularly with the Softball Complex in in play now, and so where we're at with the Wellness Center, is we've secured two partners and have another two that are to be announced and so total those four partners equate to about two hundred and seventeen thousand dollars in revenue. Some of that is in kind trade dollars with vast my goal to just kind of keep it succinct for this explanation is.

U

My goal would be to have two more partners announced at the Wellness Center, so have six total sponsors to compliment the naming rights that are already in place and then define five partners for field naming rights at the first premiere softball complex. So in total, the target revenue between the two facilities beyond, what's already been generated, would be around 350,000. So hundred thousand roughly would be the target goal for the Wellness Center, and then the target revenue for sponsorships at the premier, softball complex, would be two hundred and fifty thousand dollars net revenue.

U

So as far as the investment from the city to us, that would be twenty five thousand over the next quarter, and so you know, we'd be looking at a total of a hundred and one hundred and twenty five thousand over the course of our entire term. And if we were able to hit these targets which we're on track to and I think these are all realistic and in some cases conservative numbers maybe get to be over $400,000 in net revenue. As far as sponsorships for these city-owned facilities, I.

N

B

A question that I would have because there was some discussion at the Finance Committee meeting last week, right and and you're aware that and we we discussed it briefly.

B

It's a matter of how realistic you feel like the potential revenue is at 350,000 that you're referring to now and some concern entering into a guaranteed contract. There's some sort of commission base, which you would provide it to us in an option. B I guess wanted to just speak to that, because I I mean obviously, if we're Commission based actually be to your benefit.

B

If we were to realize the revenues that you're that you're projecting but I guess I just like to have you speak to you know realistically I mean just kind of hear you sound you out. As far as you know, what why we should enter into a guaranteed contract based upon what your projected revenues are. The.

U

Well, between the two options: those are at the end of the day. If you calculate out what would it be if we hit the target revenue, I mean it's, it's somewhat comparable. If you do Commission versus you, do the guaranteed I, the I guess the reason I would encourage I guess I wouldn't encourage either. That's. Why there's options for your guys at sake? So that way, if you want to say hey, the only way we want to you know give any dollars away as if we're getting dollars.

U

I understand that and if there's also a point where we say: hey, you've consulted for for a year and and gone through all we've gone through this big consultation evaluation process. We've developed the pipeline and a lot of the things that I sent out over this past week to kind of show what's been done over the past year, and now we kind of want the you know we'll pay for whatever you you generate either.

U

Either option make sense to me and and and I think makes sense for the city when it comes down between the two I guess: I, don't I, don't know if I would lobby for either one over the other. We've been on a quarterly basis, so I think that with just a straight retainer, if we did that for one more month, that would keep things exactly how they've been it wouldn't. It would just be more of an extension than a renewal. You know what one more quarter, one more quarter.

U

Yes, sorry so I it's hard for me to that's I, give though options just like I gave in the a year ago for for this, for you guys to be able to choose of what what makes sense, especially now that another projects coming into the mix which is ready to launch or go to market or, however, you want to word it at any any point now, so you know there I think. One thing that we I've discussed discussed in the past too, is, if there's any concern on the Commission front of hey.

U

You know you already have two or three of these sponsors at the Wellness Center locked in. We don't want to pay you Commission on those. Those are ones that we would identify before entering another quarter and say those are not gonna be commissioned to make sure that there's, no, no one being hold back that would get you know double paid on or anything like that. We would make sure we could avoid that and those type of sponsors we could be identifying and say hey.

U

We already know that those are on their way to becoming a partner. We're not gonna pay you as part of a commission. If you guys were to choose that route. I.

A

Feel, like the intention is I mean people want to continue with you. What happened was far short of the expectations due to probably a lot of things that were beyond your control, but the fact of the matter is we didn't get nearly as much money as we were hoping to get, and we don't have any money in the budget right now to pay another quarter and I. Don't know where that money would come from if you were working on strict Commission, I know where that money would come from, it would come out of the proceeds.

A

But if we don't have any proceeds, I guess it's a risk that the accounts will have to decide if they want to take I personally feel like it should be a commission basis because you're a salesman and you have other clients and some of those clients are probably on commission and so, if you're torn between how you're going to spend your time and we're giving you the money, whether you produce or not, I, don't know, if that's true of your other clients and it comes down to the end of the quarter.

A

You're gonna, you know, do what you need to do for yourself, and that makes me nervous and it would make me nervous, no matter who was on the other end of the contract, so I guess, I I would strongly recommend a commission based contract, though that's not an option here and think about where the money's going to come from from this flat fee for the next quarter. But.

L

Mary, you know, because you have two options in here: right I mean right. The technique, you said that's not I'm, probably is an option.

U

L

Just need to have that you know presented to us is what that what that total amount was be a night before I go on a night, I do want to say to, and our expectations were much higher in and without question.

L

We know what those hurdles have been this over this last year and I don't see those as Ryan's issues that just things that just we had to sort out and I think were through those and and moving forward. So Ryan have you calculated if we took. Let's just use your number right, the five fields, the two potential sponsors at the wellness facility.

L

Have you taken that number I think you should potential $350,000 right? How does that? If you were to be successful with those? How does the B option in here? How does that relate in total dollars, because you got a a retainer amount plus a commission? How does that total dollar equate to the pro rata? And what do you think it would be if it was all Commission based hey if I took the $3.00 three, the three options with the same success three to $50,000?

L

What's my cost? What's my cost, what's my car.

U

Yeah well, I I, don't know if I can do the math. That quick, but I can tell you. It would take me a second, but if, if, if the numbers as targeted, so if we, if we have two hundred and seventeen thousand now that have been generated and working as on record again saying some of that is a hundred thousand two. That is in-kind dollars that I negotiated as part of a vast agreement, but there's two hundred and seventeen and a half thousand dollars that are going to the Wellness Center.

U

Now, if we got another 100,000 plus another 100 or 250,000, so be four hundred and sixty seven thousand dollars and some change that would be netted to the city. If we stuck with the straight retainer option, that would mean that I would be over the course of one year and a quarter been paid. Gps would have got 125 K, so 467 125 K would be. If you want to look at that as a net, and then we and then I'd have to take a minute to figure out.

L

U

The Commission.

L

You lost me because we're only really only talking about 350,000 yeah.

A

We were not on.

L

What you've already done.

U

Work. Okay, so then the.

L

U

On the additional 350,000 from the new day forward, okay.

L

Can I can I make a recommendation mayor? Can we stop this discussion, give Ryan some time, let's go to the next I and come back to this one. Let's give him a few minutes just to pencil some rough numbers in and say: here's what the pro rating is. That's an easy.

U

B

L

What the pro rata plus the commission would be here's about what the straight and it's got to be, based on what you're, projecting eg in that quarter, yeah.

U

About 350 great options, including the one that's not listed- that maybe the.

D

U

Like to see yeah I can figure that.

B

I can give you I can give you the answer for option B assuming a three month, renewal plus the the Commission it'd, be 78 thousand dollars on three hundred fifty thousand versus the twenty-five thousand under under the option. A now. If we went to a straight commission basis that I don't know what your, what your rate would be, or what your commission rate would be so.

U

For example, like the the a lot of the figures I base off of or based on the firm that I used to work for that consulted on Aberdeen and Sioux Falls and a lot of these projects their fee for a project Commission for you what a lot of times be around 25 percent. So I start my commission. If any time I'm on a commission will project I'd do anywhere between twelve and a half to seventeen and a half percent and a lot of times. That range is based on.

U

If there's a retainer or not, when there's no retainer at all, it's typically higher the max I've ever been would would it would it be on a on a project where it's no retainer any costs that are being fronted and time that's being spent out of my pocket and then whatever I make or whatever's generated I make 25% of that? That's the max and the lowest has ever been twelve and a half percent, and that's speaking about other municipalities in South Dakota, specifically.

B

So so, somewhere on a straight commission we'd be talking about that twelve and a half percent. If you forty, four thousand roughly up to use a twenty five percent that be eighty eight. Eighty eight.

Q

Thousand roughly yeah.

B

So eighty eight under straight commits between 44 and eighty eight under straight Commission 78 under the combined Commission or the along with the retainer or twenty five thousand four of the flat contract them all for three months. Correct yep,.

N

B

That answer, if.

U

If, if as I'm calculating as you go, that's right, I believe you.

L

U

We're talking about options that I didn't have yeah.

L

That one option to what what was just for the heck of it here, what I'm trying to find it in here and I can't seem to find it. But what's the retainer on fifty five hundred so you're at fifteen, sixteen five versus twenty five right mm-hm, so the Delta, their difference is only nine grand under.

B

Option B, though you still got the Commission no.

L

No now I'm talking about the what would, as the Mayor was referencing the that's a fixed cost right. If he doesn't sell anything, we still got sixteen thousand five hundred dollars right or we have twenty five thousand dollars. But if you sell something well, I'm just saying I know what I'd do in business: I wouldn't pay him eighty-seven thousand dollars.

L

I wouldn't do it, because we better hope by now that he has a darn good feeling where he's at, and why is he going to work for us because I'm gonna guess you want to do work for us again right and continue continue.

U

Or right but I wanna a lot of work and and got through the hurdles or now we're at the point where particularly the Wellness Center. We've got to the point where we can have success and are starting to see success.

L

And and let's another thing is, it all depends on the terms of the agreement you get. You could get agreements that we don't start getting paid till 2019, which is going to be likely the case with softball fields correct.

L

Why would they pay for something that well.

U

By the time it gets around or that's gonna be done yeah we could get up signage, so we could have it that's. It could be there's something whether it be partial year for eighteen. If you did get any this year, if.

L

You did yep we'd have to happen really quick, yep.

U

L

U

And that's one of those things where I've got everything as far as a presentation, marketing materials ready to go, but we've been waiting on my full things: right, I'm.

L

Just saying the likelihood of that happening.

U

Yeah likelihood of getting you, you I, think you'd have a okay percentage of getting a couple partners quickly. So, if we're looking for five partners, there I think you could maybe get two partners that would potentially give their first payment this year right.

L

So you're gonna have probably going to have up you're gonna have a revenue issue, no matter what, from our budget standpoint, so I think we would need to sit down and figure out where that money's coming from no matter what but I know what I'd do in business.

L

I haven't had you here almost a year now the difference between a guaranteed minimum of 25 verses, 16, and if you, the 16, means we're gonna, add another many thousands of dollars on that for Commission's I'm, going with my fixed 25 I know my cost and I'll come up with the money.

A

If some of your clients have paid 12 percent straight Commission, why would we pay 16 thousand plus 15% Commission I've.

U

I've also had clients that have paid 25 percent and it depends on the retainer. So when this option was proposed a year ago, there was, but there was various options laid out and the decision was we have what looked like at the time. There's three complexes. This is going to be a lot of work.

U

The big amount of commission could add up significantly and now we're actually seeing that start to happen. So if we would have taken the Commission option and these four partners, plus the additional two we're gonna aim to get and then the five that we're gonna look to get it to softball complex would have all came to fruition.

U

Let's just say in one month in one quarter the amount the city would pay me would have been exponentially higher if we would have done the Commission route versus the only the retainer, which is again an option that I offer, but it was made as an option. So that way, if you guys wanted to kind of mitigate the risk of all right.

U

So if we're gonna hit these goals, which we're well on the way now to hitting it just took a lot longer than I expected or planned and and for various reasons, so we're getting there now and I think that again, I think the the city will come out well ahead.

U

The the timeline is something that I have, unfortunately, just had to had to work around and and now we're again we're to the point of starting to see these. The dollars come in and start to see the revenue that you guys did expect so.

A

So we had a year contract and we we got a hundred and seventeen thousand plus some in-kind correct.

V

A

You're asked what we're looking at is a one more quarter, yep and then possibly extending it out quarter by quarter. But is it reasonable.

B

To it month by month, okay.

A

B

A

Expect that we'll see something.

U

Yes, quarter, yeah, to be honest with you, if certain you know roadblocks that we faced didn't come up, this would have all been pushed ahead and I. Don't know that now that there's not an ice arena at the discussion table today that we would even be having this conversation, it would have just been hey.

U

You know thanks for the good work, because there were a lot of things that, as part of being a consultant that I worked on that were maneuvering around things to make sure sales could get executed and now we're at that point- and there were you, know, a pipeline of over 600 prospects was developed and marketing materials are developed and dozens upon dozens proposals went out.

U

So there was no lack of effort, and you know, as far as from my standpoint, I was here at least two weeks of every month throughout this entire proposal, which is more than any other client I have so I I, it's not for a lack of effort. We just had some challenges and again now, we've got to that point where I want to see it through and we you know we went.

U

We would essentially went from zero to four sponsors at the Wellness Center in a matter of a month after we got through some challenges, and now we could get to that six, which is kind of our magic number and then, if we could get five, which is I, think the right number for the premiere or the the premiere Softball Complex. Not only would that be good revenue for there, but it would also kind of balance that less is more the aesthetically nice facility.

U

So that's, that's that's why I want the other. The additional quarter is because then I think the the bang for the buck is. Is there and it you know, I, don't want my credibility to to be left at the wayside. Winter.

S

U

That's this is what I do so yeah.

N

U

Would be the first project that, if I, if we stopped now I, probably wouldn't look the greatest and I don't want to just barely above break me, and you know it much. Rather you guys mayor.

L

Does it or probably a Ryan question where it isn't mere question, but does this have to be decided upon tonight or could we do this at our next council meeting? This is really a you question. Yeah.

U

So I think that, based on the fact that there are another option or two that may have came up, I've made it a point to say it's: when I go, it's I'm on a good I mean good faith with the city, so I'm not trying to do anything. That's take-it-or-leave-it, decide tonight. So I think that as long as we could do it in the next, so would that be next month or in two weeks. Yes, we could do that.

L

I'm, getting some of the numbers aren't adding up as I'm looking in your Ryan. That's why I think it's best if we have discussion as to the logic of some of these okay and also give you the time to take a look at these numbers and the third option when.

U

L

We need to look at those numbers. I agree.

U

And some of the materials I I've sent out I, don't know if this is it or if they got circulated a little too late, because I think they got circulated too late to hit the agenda. So maybe because we had to adjust something so I'm more than willing to have something in the next few days, ready for everybody to have a couple weeks to review even.

B

I'm, okay, with that, if you are- and we've been stringing you along now for a couple of months as far as doing something as far as renewing this or extending this obvious, it's it's your call to make. As far as I've been certain I mean if you're, if you want to give us a couple more weeks, I mean we would definitely appreciate that to make sure we're on the same page. By the same token, I realize you've got a you've got to make decisions too, when you're in Ryan two.

U

Weeks that I would much rather you guys, I'd rather make a decision with everybody having the material and the numbers and stuff that they would would need them right.

L

Here's where I'm just quick numbers and then just to show you were all of a sudden. My little red flag goes up. If we were to pay you, the the Commission, the fifty five hundred bucks or I'm, sorry that the retainer plusher your suggested 15 percent, and if you were successful with the three hundred fifty thousand dollars. That would be about 68, almost 69 thousand dollars, which represents over 20 percent total. If you wanted to that, dump that over to what you're getting paid you're getting over 20 percent and I.

L

Wonder if that's a fair and realistic number from our end, when it when I hear you say that some of your clients are at 12 percent, twelve and a half percent, and this number is at 20 plus.

U

The ones that are 12 and a half percent their retainer reflects that, so that one is reflective of where that retainer would be. So, oh that.

L

Included a retainer with that, yes, okay, yeah, okay, so I just think if two weeks isn't good, we just need to commit to getting this thing done and understood within two weeks. We probably have to take a look at each individual option and look at where those dollars would come from, because even if we go Commission, the likelihood is of us have an income enough to pay. Him isn't likely gonna be there. So you're gonna have to come up with my no matter what, anyway, so I think we need to.

L

Let's just take a look at that sit down with finance. Look at the three options. Do calculations let Ryan not be on the spot of coming up with the option. Three, let's sit down, take a look at and commit to getting this done in two weeks, I'm, absolutely open.

B

We would need to see a third option or an option C, though that would be a strictly commission days. I.

U

B

Because because b is a hybrid and I think if, if we really gonna compare guaranteed with a commission, we need to see know what that Commission option would be yep.

U

I'll, do that and I'll give you guys more than a week notice. So that way you can, if you want to come back with any sort of counter proposals or hybrids among hybrids, we can do that, but.

L

Our next meeting is two weeks from tonight: correct.

G

F

They can be on the finance main week from Wednesday, so I make.

N

The motion to table this.

B

Amended motion do.

F

B

Do we table or what do we do.

G

Why would I make a motion to postpone action until the 18th.

B

I'll make that motion. It was very emotionally I'll.

A

Make a motion to that board? Okay, so we have a motion by Bill Haller and a second, my damn fourth, to postpone to.

G

The eighth to the 18th.

A

G

A

Right any discussion about that motion. All those in favor signify by saying aye all.

F

A

Are posting if I'd be saying, nay motion carries.

U

Sorry, no thank you. I appreciate Rion.

G

Rion Rion, thank you over here. I would just you have a formal contract as well, or is it just a proposal? What yeah.

U

U

G

Yeah just so, we can take action on that as well. At the same time, that way, it's all done at once, right.

L

Now, right in this delay on Aria doesn't stop you from working on our behalf of next two weeks, because you're still under contract through the end of June right, yep, good, all right.

A

Thank you item number 19 is authorization for the mayor to direct the South Dakota Department of Transportation to proceed with an enhanced lighting project on highway 212 phase 2, and this went to the municipal utilities board and they have agreed to offer the city a 20-year amortization of cost more or less. They increase the rental for our traffic light. The excuse me, the street lighting, which would amount to upwards of $600,000 over a 20-year period of increased cost.

A

For this now, the way other communities have been successful in getting upgraded lighting is by donations from businesses, because it it does make a difference in how the community appears and the reason that we're even considering this is is because the H 2020 subcommittee for beautification wanted to make some enhancements along the 212 corridor, because they're rebuilding the highway in the next few years, virtually every other thing that that they threw out as a possibility was failed for one reason or another.

A

So this is kind of the last thing to consider and it does have a pretty hefty price tag along with it. So if the council were to approve this tonight, we would likely look for donations from the community and we'd have a few years to get the money.

A

But if we failed, the we're gonna have this big price tag that we're gonna have to pay somehow, and municipal utilities is offered to pay that upfront with the city paying them back over a 20-year period went through a an increased street lighting rental fee. So I would look for a motion and second for approval, and then we can discuss it's more moved by a Councilwoman manty second, by Councilman bill, Hauer, okay, discussion.

B

I've been the one probably closest to this on this group and I also sat in on the Municipal Utility Board meeting last week, where this was discussed, and there was a group of us that met in the interim Adam you're part of that group mayor. You were that group as well a few others, I think Matt and Colin you. You were part of that conversation as well, along with utility people that this this is our one and only chance to do something different out of the ordinary on that corridor coming into town I.

B

Don't argue that is I've got a pretty hefty price tag associated with it at finance committee last week, Kristen suggests that if we are gonna, do it maybe we're better to pay the cost our.

B

If we can't get the outside funding generated Chris and pointed out that this would come out of our CIP a project fund that would allow us a couple years to accumulate funds for it versus if we have the utilities pay for it, and then we've got to pay a a rental or a user fee would come out of our general fund, but nonetheless does have a hefty price tag with it. Yeah I have been in contact with h2o 20 subcommittee since last Wednesday, now and they're just on standby.

B

As far as what we decide tonight, if we want to go forward to go forward with this, just for what it's worth, I was in Brookings last Thursday night and that's kind of a comparison that we've been making as we look at this project and I couldn't help, but but know it especially as I was leaving or we were leaving.

B

It was a dark that the the extra the ambience or whatever you want to call it along that corridor in Brookings, where they did have some enhance street lighting installed and then comparing that when I pulled into Watertown 45 minutes later compared to what we have for for street lighting and the options that we might now have. So it's something I'd like to see it's considered. By the same token, it's got a hefty price tag associated with it. So with that you know open up, for you know other comments who might have here.

F

The other thing that we did talk about was on that second section from 81 to 20 was changing some coloring on the light poles because we're not allowed. We basically are past the time that we can change those the price tag that they have. That's it's not a set in stone either, and we have some options as far as changing some different designs and stuff like that. That is basically a rough estimate of what they've come up with using I. Believe Brookings is yes design. I was up in Aberdeen last week.

F

They have done the similar thing to their downtown area as well, completely changes their look as well. The price tag that goes with it is extremely expensive, as it sits right now, but it you really get one shot to change it. That's the one thing that you kind of have to look at I mean since last time they redid the highway. 212 I mean I, cannot remember, it might be 30 40 years ago, 50 years ago. Right so I mean you're.

F

Gonna get a 1 in 50 year time, so the expense is something that can be looked at and we haven't really narrowed anything down for sure. We just have looked at Brookings as the option just because they recently did theirs right.

A

This was very recent, so what other communities have done this and yes, like you, said Aberdeen Rapid City had the recent project there.

F

A

F

Red so it changes it changes the look of a town drastically and.

A

And that age 2020 vision a process that was a resounding desire to improve that entry corridor into our community highway 212 is the way people that's where people get their first impression of Watertown. That's a highly traveled yeah.

F

We have we have other projects, we need to do as well, so I don't want to diminish those projects either that come from it. I know that the Ice Arena is one that has been kicked around for a while. I know that people are talking about that. It's this is. This is something that we have a couple years to deal with. You know and it basically, we can fundraise privately as well as maybe a co-op between the city and private entities to try to make our town look significantly different, but.

L

Our decision is based on the assumption that the city is going to pay it all right.

A

Because? Right because.

L

We don't know, what's gonna happen, we do know the worst case scenario is we would have to pay for that night. A couple comments.

L

First of all- and you know I- do agree that without question. Something like this can change the feel, although community, especially for those outside coming in and what they, how they perceive our community. There's no question on it, but in most cases it's part of a bigger plan and I don't see that for highway 212, because you put up all these nice little lights and we still have the clutter that exists up and down to 12 from 19th to highway 81 and that's the signage it there's a complete difference. Brookings.

L

If you look at it, they have a divided highway. That's there where they did theirs, plus they have the service roads. So it's much more wide open. So you have the chance to see the lights and feel the lights. Ours is going to be tucked in, amongst all the signage. There's no way. Excuse me, there's there's no way unless we have a bigger plan, I find it difficult to spend the six hundred thousand dollars. I.

L

Really do you're also asking me to look at some and we keep referring to Brookings I, don't know what Brookings lights. Look like I have no idea. I can envision what it might look like, but I don't know so you're asking me to to say yes to $600,000 expenditure, that I don't know what we're actually committing to in regards to what we're going to get so as I sit here today.

L

If it was part of a larger plan that it was going to take phases, and we actually were going to make significant improvements in that stretch of 212 I'd be all for it, but I, don't think arbitrarily putting lights up. There is going to accomplish what people are going to want on how we do 12 there or what what they're actually looking for that's.

A

My opinion, you probably know we're not done tweaking our sign ordinance, we're working on it and the Billboard part of it, which you're referring to hasn't been tweaked yet and I I agree with you. I would like to see that fixed and soon, because we're gonna be moving signs and that's the time to do it. When those signs come down, we should have any revised ordinance in place that that would go a long way to improve what it looks like coming in in.

L

There no disrespect, but it's not just well. You know my opinion about billboards, especially in that area within town, but but it's not just the billboards, it's just our some of our standard signage and what we have.

A

Just everywhere, yes, I'm talking about.

L

Okay you'd mentioned billboards. That's wise, okay, again,.

A

L

Again, you know we tried to take signs out of the right away and we we've. You know little signs out of the right way and you get met with a huge amount of criticism on those things. So we don't know we're gonna get on an ordinance or when again I wish I knew that it was part of a bigger plan that I could buy into, but I haven't seen one and that's where it becomes hard for me to say sure.

L

Let's, let's put the six hundred thousand dollars into the lights, that's where I'm struggling and it doesn't include from highway 81 to do highway. 20, you know. So now we got a section that doesn't come from the interstate 219th doesn't involve those right. It's only from 19th to 81, so I got one strip.

L

So if I'm coming in from the West or I'm coming in from south 81 or north 81, I may never see those things.

L

If I come in from the east and I get off on Willow Creek, Drive I, don't see those things so I'm just saying it's, it's it's a hard bite for me. It really is because I think we have a lot of projects. I also look at somebody mentioned I serine and we're gonna come in with funding, well six on a grant going towards an Ice Arena.

L

That's pretty significant bite out of that one. So that's where I'm at I'm struggling with it I'd love to be able to do it, but I'm not convinced it's the best use of our dollars, even though it's a great opportunity right now, it's pregnancy as sorts working with the.

A

Sterility is the only opportunity we won't have the opportunity again so just.

B

To clarify for those that might be joining him late in this conversation, why we're discussing this now when it's not going to happen for another two or three years? It's because the state d-o-t needs to know what our decision will be, and there were some what under the gun? Timewise! That's! Why we're talking about it tonight, even though it's not going to happen for some time, and that would give us some time to to work out whether it's a bigger plan or funding from outside sources in the meantime.

B

But that's why we're having the conversation night is because the d-o-t needs to know what our decisions going to be.

A

Councilman Albertson I agree.

K

With that I think that we need to look at it now and if we have other issues, then we have to address them. But if we pass this up and the d-o-t goes bias, then here we're going to sit without that opportunity. So.

O

K

Think we have to do and and we'd have like Kristen told us last week, we'd have two years three years to be getting this money and I. Think it's right. We should count on doing that. Ourselves, that'd be great if somebody'd step up well, we want people to step up for the signage for the prairie Lakes Wellness Center. We won't step up for softball field, learn them set up step up for the hockey rinks I want them to step up for chairs in the arena.

K

You know we're asking this community to step up I, don't think we can count on that. I think we have to take the step air right.

V

K

It work, then, if we don't have a good looking highway, then we need to figure out how to make it a good looking Iowa right.

A

And it it's impossible to know what all of your constituents want. This hasn't gone to a vote and you have to be plugged in and and I mean relying on. Facebook is probably not the wise thing to do. It's it's probably not representative and I, feel for the council. I may or may not get to vote on this and anybody that's listening. This council has a very, very difficult choice to make and they they have to take what they know about what the community has said and try to project.

A

What's right for our community and and what's best without knowing without having a crystal ball. What difference it's really going to make and we know it will have an impact- is that impact worth the amount of money that we'll have to raise to put toward it? That's a tough question. That's a really hard question and, however, you vote I respect your opinions. I just want you to know that ahead of time. I know it's tough and we do have the visioning process. That's what I look back on!

A

That was a very enthusiastically undertaken process of weeding through everything that our community wants and prioritizing it and enhancing the look of highway 212 was huge. It was a very important part of the vision process. So keep that in mind. Anybody else want to say anything. I guess.

E

I just would add on to what both you and Dan said in that I always feel that at some point we can overthink the what-ifs and how ifs and and money, but I do go back also to the visioning process and the things that have already been done to try to improve the look and I believe we should also plan for it rather than ask people to pay for it, but it's very possible.

E

This has been a generous community in the past and you know I understand where you're coming from to Mike as far as who sees what, but that doesn't mean that in this two-year period of time we can't fix the sign ordinance and we can't finish some of the master plans. There are streetscape plans, there are all kinds of other things that have all been being worked on as part of this visioning process and I. Think.

E

The key here now is to start plugging them together and bringing them together, and if we skip a piece at a time where we might not have another chance for 50 years, I guess I feel like we are selling Watertown short. Then, if we're talking already talking about Brookings, has this and Aberdeen has this and Redwing has this, and this thing is just this is just the same discussion we've had since I've moved here about like. Why don't we have this and why don't we have that?

E

What is community's self-esteem exactly exactly and and I I really think that it is a big amount. But what is the? What is the appearance, the self-esteem, the attractiveness and appeal of our city worth? What is it worth to us? What is it worth to the community? What is it worth to all those people who spent I don't know how many hours on the visioning process I was part of that and they really did boil down to I.

E

Think our answer to this question and that was make it to 22 12, look better, including the signage, and this is our shot right now at the lighting.

L

Very got a question as I've heard it several times here. This is our one shot for the next 50 or 60 years. What does that mean? Does that means if we, if, if we put out, let's just say we go with standard lights today, are we are we really talking about missing out the state's contribution to this, which is 100 and what 50, grand or 60 grand yeah that really what we're talking about or are we talking about.

A

It is yes that cost we'll have brand new lights that we abandoned, so that would be a lost cost and then we'll have this same amount. Whether you know we have that lost cost or not. Plus, we may have to acquire some different land, because the placement of these lights is going to be different. The state is going to give us the cheapest alternative possible, the tallest lights, because they spread the light, the farthest and they're basic, and they look like you know the cheapest option and we can go with that and save ourselves.

A

Half a million bucks. That's a lot of dough to save, but it is also when you look at how much we spend on our community and it you can look at it as an investment in a projection of who we are as a community. And what do we want to look like.

R

Keep in mind that this is a very preliminary cost estimate. Still, this could change dramatically one way or the other and I'm not well.

A

And we can control it from going up.

R

Yeah, yes, and well: no in 2020 what the cost estimate will be on our end and they were kind enough to give us this estimate, because this.

A

Discussion, correct and we we don't have the luxury of waiting for two years. Unfortunately, yes.

B

P

A

Lights are lower to the ground; they have to be closer together. You know.

R

Retrofitting something like this would be astronomical and not fees.

N

To be a waste right.

H

So how do we know what that cost is gonna, be in the end? You know and we're talking in they'll.

A

H

2020, though, but how do we know what they're gonna do we don't.

A

Know we'll tell them we're.

H

Sad were saying: 600,000, our that are, we sure it's gonna be six hundred thousand and twenty two.

A

No there's no guarantee it's.

E

An estimate right but excuse me, are you saying that that we can control that high number? We.

A

Can well, no not, mmm it will be bid out just like all projects are bidding, but we started with. Basically what Brookings did that was our starting point and their lights are very beautiful. We could do a pole that is black in color, like Brookings, but smooth instead of fluted, and you may not even see that texture. So maybe we don't want to pay the extra for that. We could reduce the cost that way make a simpler arm or you know, change a luminaire fitting. We they're different options that there's so many different choices.

A

We haven't looked at that at all. We had to start somewhere.

A

H

Just think 600,000 would go a lot better towards we've been talking Ice Arena. This.

A

Isn't a question of Ice Arena or.

H

Lights no I know but we've, but we're asking for money and we're asking. We just had somebody up here asking for money for we're. You know a consultant here looking for revenue sponsorships and that stuff and then we're gonna still go out and ask for somebody to donate for streetlights I.

E

Believe we should, as a city, take ownership for that cost in our CIP, as I believe was discussed, that's an option with an option, and if there are people who come forward great again, I think that to pass this opportunity up is a it's kind of to me. It would feel like so what so, you guys did all that visioning and you really wanted to 12 to look nice, but you know we had our chance and we blew. You know we decided to pass it by so sorry, I understand the money part of it.

E

I also understand the overwhelming participation in this visioning process and I do think. Sarah was right. It comes down to what do we think of our city. How do we feel what kind of image do we want to project and I get tired, sometimes of defending ourselves against a Brookings and defending ourselves against Aberdeen and defending ourselves against Redwing, because they all look better I hear.

A

That all the time, here's a chance.

E

That's that's my feeling is that you know.

A

F

Did you want to say yeah I just got a couple of other comments. I look at this as a not just a one-time thing. I also look at it, and maybe this is something where we change our our street lighting on the corners and downtown. You know, I mean you have an opportunity.

F

You look at what Lake Erie Tech has done, I mean they changed their campus I mean they put the decorative lights on I, understand that they have their own funding source, but you see how much different it looks around that campus versus the rest of town I mean I, understand, there's a lot of money involved. I understand that there's other opportunities involved, but maybe this is one of those where we start as we're changing out streetlights we go to something that has a better look to it, a better feel to it. So you know it.

F

It is a lot of money. I mean no matter how you look at it. It's a ton of money. Can we spend money on other stuff? Yes, we can and.

A

We do and a ton of money, quality.

S

A

Life in this community, you.

H

A

Have- and you know every year certain there are things that we have in our community, that cost us a million bucks a year mm-hmm and we pay that year after year after year, long name any names. But there are things that we want in our community and things that we have in our community and people move here because of those things. People.

N

Like our community, because of those things they're not free.

A

And it you know, we don't have to finish the bike trail either. It's gonna be big bucks. We don't have to have parks, we don't have to have rec programs, we don't have to have any quality of life things if we choose not to, but we have chosen to have those things. That's how we attract people to move here and we can make things better. If we choose- and it is I mean it's a high price, it.

E

A

Of these things are.

E

How much is that price gonna matter, ten years from now or 20 years from now, I agree with Adam, because I Drive down first coming in from Willow Creek and the lights change the the poles themselves. Change now. Is that going to become a corridor into our downtown? The Willow Creek Drive is being developed, and you know that goes right into downtown. You know coming in on. First the lights already change right about where La Ti put that nice sign. You know their signage and entryway.

E

Can we continue to back up those lights as we need to replace them so that we end up with a beautiful entryway into our downtown? So when we're sitting back here ten years from now, is anybody gonna remember that we did or didn't spend the six hundred thousand by? Are they going to remember that we didn't take the opportunity we had to improve and begin to realize the process of improving right step by step by step and.

A

We do have a larger plan of enhancement of our community with that visioning mm-hmm we do process. There are a lot of things in there that we're picking away out new signs at the entry points, Missouri.

L

Are there I'm assuming there are, but are there enough detail with the state plans that would give everyone here a better flavor of what that's actually gonna? Look like no matter which lights we put in right from their end, you know, Adam has brought up Brookings here. You know on that thing. It's a completely different area than what we're dealing with here. You know as far as the area that they did theirs in, but you know, are we gonna?

L

Are they making taking the highway and gotten it out and putting new your new urban gutter in and maybe putting a sidewalk on up to the curb and and that's what we're gonna see or is there going to be green spaces that we don't see today because to me all of those things become a part of of what.

A

That vision is going to be.

A

Where we have written.

L

But I'm talking about as a state a new.

A

Yes, the state's putting a new curb and gutter we asked for greenery on. There was one of the age 2020 groups, things that they wanted to do, and the answer was no on that. Unfortunately, we can encourage it when as people redevelop, but as it is now, it is what it is and but you know you see, look at Montgomery furniture. What that building looked like before 10 years ago. What that looked like and what that looks like today. It looks nicer, I mean we have been improving our community's appearance bit by bit.

A

We didn't make them do that, but when we start investing in cleaning things up, it there's a response and the other businesses show in-kind right. So there is that it's contagious.

J

N

A

We did have pictures of those lights and I mean there would shame had that files, and unfortunately, it's not here now and I I'm sure Colin doesn't know where that stuff is that's just sergeant's.

E

Can't show you that.

A

Ready to take a vote, I'm gonna call for a vote all those in favor of enhanced lighting signify by saying aye aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay, a.

L

A

Call vote please.

C

Yes, no mama, yes, manty! Yes, so.

C

Go Howard, yes, y-yes.

A

62 motion carries motion carries thank you. Can.

B

I just ask because, like because I ended up being on the email chain, with with the state, do T with the transition in engineer office I mean between you and call that and get photos. I mean I know that were not following up with anybody, because I was involved in some previously.

A

Under station to I just gotta, let him know we, we said yes and then we'll start picking out our design and the.

R

State has been already contact me on all of the 2:12 stuff, so they.

A

Won't let it slide yeah.

A

All right item number 20 is consideration of change order number one with Browns construction for the landfill stormwater improvements; project number 18, 18, increasing the contract $5,500 for a total contract amount of four hundred six thousand dollars, four hundred seventy seven and 18 cents for a motion for approval, so moved by Councilman l'olam. Second, second, by Councilwoman ante.

A

As you may recall, this was recommended by the public works committee and.

A

Are there any questions, aye.

F

I'd ask Mike about this. Basically, what this they had ran over- and this was.

A

Collin, do you wanna? Yes,.

R

This one is for additional our temporary litter fence in.

N

R

Yeah up to a thousand feet, so they came up the contract price, our price of 550 per lineal foot and up to a thousand feet, so that could actually go fluctuate a little bit down, but up to a thousand feet, they.

F

Have to remove the old fence, and then they want to temporary, wanted to stop the litter control. Yes and Mike. Figured somewhere owns 750 that he under was probably more realistic.

A

Any other comments or questions all right, those in favor signify by saying aye aye. It was a posting to fiber, saying nay, motion carries item number 21 is consideration of change order number one final: with PKG contracting inc for the waste water treatment facility, laboratory replacement project number 17 16, decreasing the contract $1500 for a total contract amount of one hundred. Fifty nine thousand five hundred sixty nine dollars. He'll look for a motion, second for google by Kasavin Buehler, second, by a councilman Danforth, and this is probably the one you're thinking yeah Colin.

A

You want to give it just a brief summary yeah.

R

So they did end up going over on their time limit on this one on by total 17 days. But a lot of that was unforeseen circumstances. So I was not involved in this one, but Shane was in the negotiations and Michael's as well with HR green and they agreed to extend the contract by 14 days and then penalize them for three days at $500 per day. So that's where this $1500 comes from and.

A

This was recommended by the public works committee. Yes,.

N

A

Right, thank you any other questions or comments all right, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed signify by saying, nay motion carries item number 222 is old business there. Any old business.

A

2300, mr. Mahone, do you want to come to the microphone state? Your name for the record.

V

V

Doesn't Lane, which we have been talking about and I thought we had a deal cut with brandy and and when I talked to her on Friday, she said that there would be a recommendation coming from.

V

The engineering department- or you know so what I've requested is I've, got I've got last that I bought 30 years ago in the plot that was laid out was done 40 years ago, he's on the west side of the lake I own two Lots that I have not been able to get access to, and.

V

It's a kind of a crazy thing and I've been before the council. I think this is my third or fourth time regarding this and.

V

My request is not the there has been so many different requests of me. The most ridiculous was that I opened up a road known as growling curb cutter, blacktop and sidewalk of that project to go in 180 feet and then another 180 feet. Try to get at my lights. I would have to pay the whole cost of that.

V

It's not realistic at all, and the last one that I heard about I talked on Friday with brandy was that they would go along with putting right over access off of 139. Not to to my lots and and that's where I stand. That's what I came here to thinking that I was going to get that approval just based on a conversation we had last week, Colin I, don't know if you've had any chance to go over it with her I.

R

Guess I didn't know that there was any more discussion as of last week, but we did kind of discuss this in a roundabout way. He kind of based on the speed limits, which was a discussion here coming up and under new business and as of today, there is no access, allow any additional access to the Lots and.

A

That will off of North Lake Drive, that's recorded in the annexation resolution. That.

R

A

That I mean the council can reverse that, but the staff cannot no I understand, and so in order for them to reverse it, we have a pretty long-standing policy of not allowing driveways to be connected directly to collector routes, which that clearly is clearly there are tons and tons of driveways, and this was you know, those driveways were approved many many years ago. Some of those plats are a hundred years old and the reason for not allowing access is for safety, and we did talk about it recently.

A

The next item on the agenda is new business and we have a little diagram of what the speed limits do around the lake. If the speed limit were reduced in that area, then it wouldn't be as unsafe to have direct access with you know, however, many Lots there are, everybody gets their own driveway directly onto the collector road which, even in the 1970s they they didn't feel that was appropriate and we, it's I, think inappropriate to ask the council to act verbally on anything. They really need.

A

This is seems like a no-brainer, probably to someone who owns the lot and didn't realize the city doesn't build roads for people. A lot of people think that the city goes around and builds roads for people which we don't our ordinances say that developers build the roads and then the city takes them over and maintains them, and so here we have a plat where the road never got completed.

A

So should the taxpayers build the road or should we just forget the plan to have access at a few key locations and just let them do it all up and down a hundred different Lots? That's a pretty important action that the council would take, which would change the direction of how they've been going. So it isn't that the they haven't been paying attention to it.

A

It's just a really tough, tough question to answer and that's why I mean it's been struggled with for decades and it really it comes up over and over again and action isn't taken, because it's kind of a watershed change to how we do things.

A

People up and down 19th Street in the newly planted areas don't get to have driveways on the 19th in the old part, when there used to be a bridge over there that reduce the traffic on 19th, it wasn't a busy road, but when they took the railroad bridge away, the traffic increased dramatically and all of the plats restrict access onto that busy road. So it isn't alone those people have wanted driveways as well and they've been told no over and over again. That road is is busy just like this.

A

The road around the lake and there's really no opportunity for alternate routes around the lake. That's and.

V

Yet the building's permits have been issued in that area number one with that requirement. Still there that are coming off of 139, the old.

G

V

They're, the building permits have been issued and then there's about ten ten other accesses that the city did nothing with very.

A

Few building permits have been issued, there was one issued and the state took action against them because they put a driveway onto 139, but.

V

Since that year, the city is okayed, several.

A

Of them just a couple and end a couple decades.

V

Only one just.

A

A couple of permits have been issued, there aren't very many it.

R

Pat to kind of fill everyone in brandy and Shane did write a letter to everyone all landowners on pheasant Lane, their own adjacent property. That stated exactly what Pat said was that this is our standard. You have to meet city standard if you want to have a building permit and that essentially before building permit is in the curb has to be established, and it also said in there that he could come back to the City Council in a quest of variance to that, and that's where I don't know.

R

If that's what spurred this and that's maybe were the conversation from brandy came.

V

V

The council I've done everything. I was supposed to do you know, and so I I don't understand there.

A

Hasn't been consensus, amongst the other lot owners, the the city did ask the people who own property adjacent to the unimproved road if they would be willing. If the city did an assessment project to build the road for the people, and then the people would pay it back on their taxes over a period of time, and there was not consensus for doing that. Do you remember what the god.

V

I didn't get the letter I Jason, hiding in that letter, but by the same token, the.

Q

V

Not overly ambitious in explaining what it was all about. You know a letter went out granted, but with very little information on it. If you owned one of those Lots, you were to just let it go, I mean there was well I, don't want it all. I want to do is get access to my lines and I can't do it, and that seems ridiculous. We would have probably $400,000 in buildings two years ago had something been granted, or at least you know and I know, we're read.

V

I know: what's happened, I know what happened to me 20 years ago on my Bank containment out there. If you remember, I was told that I had to knock my bank down, because I didn't comply with the rest of the the frontage in front of my place on the lake. They came in and took all the old trees and everything out, and we went from an angle about like this to an angle about like this into a nothing's ever come back. I asked for water or granite there.

N

Is no granite? Why can't I have grit? Because I said you can't have bread? There is no granite.

V

V

N

Q

V

You can't have a ramp. Why can't I have her in him for dough I couldn't have a ramp, but four doors down got around. So a lot.

Q

Of things have been done.

V

You know that may be. The whole procedure is wrong, but I have never said no to the city. They asked me to come down my driveway with a sewer, rather than were there were going to propose it because it would be a better cut. I said: go ahead, you.

N

V

I've always suggest to the city and I and I understand a lot of things, but this development was started in the 70s. It was brought into the city and in 83 I've owned it for 30 years. You know and like I say, there's been people that just turn around and put approaches on. That's fine they're not supposed to do it a big building down on the west side of my my place. That's you know that happen.

V

You know. So if you look at it I understand. Colin knows I've been beside myself. I absolutely just run across a blank wall with you. I, don't don't know why it is.

A

It's because it's a very challenging question for the council and it sets a precedent and that's what they're concerned about cosmo Danforth. Is your question. Well,.

L

I got a question and then I gotta come in so Pat. When you say you don't have ax as to that, you don't have access off of North, they cry or you don't have access off a pheasant later. You.

V

Have no access now right.

L

But is the roadbed there no.

V

V

A

Annexation resolution says that access will be via pheasant lane, but it was never improved and there's.

V

One area ordinance.

N

A

The road has to be in in order to get a building permit where they're getting access well.

L

Now here's my comment on the council or Plan Commission Board of adjustments I've been involved for 17 years, and this has been an issue for 17 years that I've been on this I, think and I'm just beating out loud here. But it seems to me like any actions that we're taking this, not just for Pat, but any of these it seems like we have a tendency to look at policy in requirements and say that's it.

L

This thing goes way, but honestly, the reason why this didn't get done is and when it's all said and done 40 years ago, it's our fault as a city, because if that was plaited and the road should've been in there, it should have been put in and apparently we didn't see to it that it got done. So we kind of have to point it ourselves, I'm saying at some point in time.

L

What we need to do is we need to take this area and we got to find a solution, and that might mean that we got a tweak or veer from what we normally have for our standards and our policies in order to get this thing put behind us and allow people the the right effective right to use their property and get this thing developed as it as it needs to be or can be as we define it.

L

I know, there's limitations, but we just we seem to be stumbling on this thing all the time and it goes back to, but that's not the way we do things because the road has to be in before you put a building permit. Well, we make that rule that the road has to go in and maybe there's times rare times. We have to make exceptions, it disappears to me to be, and that's not just a pad issue. It's that whole area.

L

We need to come up with a solution that is not going to be overly complicated and overly burdening for and I'm, not suggesting that that the city pay things that. But what I'm saying is we got to find a solution, and you know what maybe we can issue building permits on a gravel road? Well,.

A

We, the staff, wants to do some sort of compromise, but it's been they've tried.

B

A

Involve the people who own the property impacted I think the letter was well written. It's not the first letter. Letters have been sent throughout time.

D

A

To figure out what people were, okay,.

L

If we ever pulled, people together, like we did on in in a room all together all those landowners together and say, let's get this figured out like you know the meetings we had on 19th Street, for example, which was but at least we had everybody showed up for the most part. Have we done that on pheasant lane and that you're aware I'm going to say.

A

Yes, I I think people have been invited, I think I I can't recall.

A

That a meeting was ever successful. Obviously nothing was successful, but I personally have worked off and on on this throughout the years.

Q

A

Find some consensus of willingness, I mean the staff is talking about letting them build a gravel road. They don't even want to pay for that, and they I mean our standard, says, curb and gutter and asphalt and underground storm sewer and the staff is like. Okay, we can say gravel road they'll promise if, in the future, there's a need for the rest of the improvements that they'll pay for them. They'll go and there are people out there that don't want it to develop. So how do we do that? For some, but not all?

A

And and how do this you know it does have a precedent for other unimproved roads that we have throughout our city. This is not the only one. There aren't that many, but I think.

L

Merit comes down to it. There are times and I agree. Then I'm, not when I'm saying this I'm, not faulting you or if this is just where we've been after umpteen years and god I just lose sleep over when somebody brings up pheasant Lane, because it's there's never a solution, but you know we talked about necessity of need on some of these things and some of the small projects.

L

We may need to just figure out what we think it's going to take to resolve this issue and and tell it what it is one way or the other and just.

A

Say that's what it is from the staff report. That's you. Colin right can.

K

A

Spread that out so blow it up, so we can read it.

N

R

Just I don't know just.

A

Hit control and roll your mouse.

A

R

It says: twenty-eight percent of the property owners on pheasant Lane would be interested in rezoning the property to our G, which is one of the requests we had, and so we reached out about that. And then twelve percent of the property owners were interested in improvements to.

A

Pheasant lane twelve percent, not a very resounding majority, not.

V

A majority at all those are owned by one person: I, don't.

N

Your the fire majority.

A

Of those Lots they're owned by, where is one person that owns quite a few of them, but yes,.

V

A

Don't think it's more than half.

G

R

N

V

N

V

Know in the year ago, when I came, I had a proposal with a that we addressed the the speed limit. It's the only nor.

A

Usually Hager about that tonight. What we're talking about that next! Okay,.

V

Well, I was brought up a year ago. You know asked to safety so well, whatever yeah well,.

L

My point isn't to throw stones at anybody back if we have got to find a way to resolve this issue, and it may not be through everybody agreeing to it. We may just have to get to a point where we say: here's what's the most reasonable, and this is what we're doing, because otherwise we will deal with this. You know it's not going to be Pat next time. It's gonna, be somebody else, I mean can't think of who was before it's not too long ago.

L

It seemed like on something with pheasant land again and I should you seemed like it's always coming at us and we just need to ultimately put a stake in the ground and say we understand, what's all taking place in the past. This is what we're gonna have to do. This is how we're gonna, do it we and and we're just gonna, have to I agree.

A

With you, Mike and and the staff was really looking forward to putting this to bed, we were thinking a lower standard here could be acceptable, but we kind of wanted at least half of the people to want it. Twelve percent.

L

In what I'm saying is you know, I'm on outside looking into this thing as far as ever speaking, the landowners once we all get a call from somebody but I'd love to reconvene a group and say: look, here's the deal, we're gonna! Look at this thing and we're gonna make decisions. Please be at the meeting you're, not the meeting. We then you, obviously you don't care I mean they can, certainly if they can't be at the me, and they can certainly share where their thoughts are right and if I own, the.

L

If I owns property out there and I couldn't be at the meeting. I'd either have somebody at the meeting or you would understand what my concerns are, what my position is, but we have got to put pheasant lane to bed. We just have to it. It makes people old in a hurry, is to having to deal with this darn thing and it's unfortunate that it's a almost a 50 year old problem. But at some point in time we just need to have the strength that encourages it down and say and I'm not faulting.

L

The staff up here at all I'm just saying I understand trying to build consensus and that's how I would work it too. But at some point we're just not getting it then the heck with it. Then we got to put a stake in the ground and say: what's the most logical thing and it might mean we got to deviate from some of our rules.

A

People who just want to hold that land for the future and don't really want anything to happen there is that an acceptable outcome to you, because that's been the result of the inquiries throughout the past. There are a few people that really want to do something, but the most of the people just want it to sit there and hold on to it. I.

L

Think you had to go back to the original intent there and the original intent was that land was to be developed through the through the pheasant lane. If you go back to the origin of it, the independent.

A

Been the city's practice, though, to develop land for people no.

L

We're not developing it I think we go back to the original intent of what that those properties were intended for when it was as far as its planning and its use and because I'm assuming 30 years ago, I shouldn't assume that, but that's probably why a person would would invest in multiple Lots out there from the standpoint of that its plan was for for development. That's why pheasant lane went in because it was going to get developed on both sides. Yeah.

A

I guess I mean no; no, it started to go in there sewer.

L

In part of it right as.

A

Far as it went, but.

L

The intent, but then the the developer went away right, I, don't know what, but then, why would.

A

They have a sewer, nobre.

N

A

Away I, actually, the original developer is a person in town that you probably know, and he thought that the city was going to build the road. That was his understanding, but.

L

His understate forget the road. The intent was to have an area there that is eventually developed for housing, correct or in now that changed a little bit. That's the original intent, no matter who pays for what intent was that was going to get developed and it was be residential area. I think we have to go back to that at some point and say that's what people probably way back when probably made investments on. Is that that's what it was going to get.

A

Invested in land that didn't have access and I think that's been from the moment that that was annexed, known that that road had to be built so anyway, I don't think.

L

I mean we're gonna go resolve it tonight, but I'm just saying I it. We have got to find a way to get this thing put to bed the.

A

Staff would dearly like to put this to bed all right. Thank you, mister ma hold and we, the next item, is related to what you're asking us about and under unless anyone else has an old business to talk about I'll, move on to the new business item, a on your new businesses, speed limits around Lake, Camp Eska and we have Colin. Can you bring up on your computer, the under where to brandy put it there? It is nope, there's another one I'm not from the agenda in the file.

A

The numbers are placed on there and there it's in I think it's in G just loose in G.

A

That's Brandi where it is anyway, we have varying speed limits. Just pick the most recently saved document in G at the top.

A

N

A

Don't know where it is: it's in my email see if I can bring that up.

A

If we look at the speed limit document, we have speeds around the lake anywhere from 15 to 45 miles per hour. It changes all the time and we've had complaints about speeding in numerous different locations around the lake and we're actually considering unifying the speed limit around the lake and wondering what the council would think of that.

A

If, in some places raise it in other places, lower it for the overall, more uniform speed limits and I know Glen drove around looking at North Lake Drive, the former 139, and you want to talk about that for a minute. Actually.

B

Did Dan you're involved it's? Why don't you? Why don't you kick it off? Well,.

K

I think the conversation tonight has been a great segue into what this is right now, because we've had conversation about the trail, the bike trail out there, the safety. You know, that's such a big deal of getting that bike trail done because of safety, and there's been years of conversation about that.

K

Then mister mahal comes up and says you know he can't get a road to his place because the ordinance says, which is probably goes back to years and years ago, that you can't enter a road onto the highway and especially you shouldn't because of all the safety issues, they're getting people to come onto the road. And of course, if you go to the south side of North, Lake Drive, there's road or driveway after driveway after driveway, but there are just so many different speed limits out there it.

K

It goes from 15 to 25, to 30 to 35, to 40 to 45, and there are some really really dangerous spots on the north and the west side of the lake and going through it's 40 miles an hour and I think everybody has had a situation where it's been really dangerous.

K

They've seen things that were really close and so from that side of it I could say well, Pat, you know what I understand not having a driveway, but if you slow that traffic down I mean how'd, you like to have 40 mile an hour over by Sunnyside or over by the prop. You know the speed limit there, because those roads are really narrow and they're really dangerous. Now, there's open area on the north and west, but the speed limit at 40 I drove it twice on Sunday just for curiosity's sake.

K

40 is a fast speed limit. Now you can get you can go faster than that, but when you come up over one of those, many Hills or you go around one of those, many curves 40 miles an hour is not the recommended speed, and so why do we have 40 at that level? And we've also had people not just mr. moulds. First time, I've heard him say about the speed out there. Maybe he said it last year and I forgotten it, but we do have that speed out on 40 40 on North Lake Drive.

K

There are a lot of residents out there. There I mean there are a lot of places where people come out of their driveways over that my daughter used to live just west of campus collage and that you came over that hill from either direction at 40 miles an hour I'm telling you she had three kids that could just as well have been out there on their bikes trying to get across the road. No, nothing happened, you know, but there are I. Think people used to just take a look at this map.

K

If you didn't get a chance before the meeting and see the variety of speeds, there's 115 miles an hour past the cattail crossing Golf Course right by where people cross with their golf cart and walk across there 15 miles an hour seems like it's turtle speed until you're out there trying to get across the road with the golf cart or walking across there with a golf bag, and you see somebody coming probably 20, even though they have the speed bumps in there, because they put speed bumps because people weren't going by the 15.

K

So you know, even when it says, 40 people are probably driving 45 and I know that the police are trying to trying to watch that but speed there on the lake is with all these houses so close, and maybe if we can address this, we can also do it.

K

Mike suggest and address the north side of the lake as to how people could access their property on the north side of North Lake Drive, maybe there's something that makes sense because I kind of agree, it doesn't make sense, you can have property and you can't get to it and yet I don't know if some like a lot of them, don't want it. They just want the property.

K

I, don't know the answer to that, but it seems like there must be some answers to the speed and then just keep right on going into North, Lake, Drive and figure out what to do about that. I think there's a lot of property that that's right, look at all the. If we could get buildings out there, look at all the property that we could have on the tax roll and in edie. That was a that was the county property. Here we are 40 years later.

K

We still don't have any property that we can tax out there. We've got bare property. If you don't want to build, you don't want to build I guess, but anyway, that's kind of an overview, I think of they're just a lot of different places. We've we've had my I think Glen and I may be because we're at that out in that area, we've had people talk to us about it and just wonder why do we have 40 mile an hour even.

N

K

In the bike trail, if more people are using, it's going to be even more dangerous. Yet if you're driving fast so I, don't.

N

Think the bike trail is going to solve.

K

You know people solve people not to walk or ride bike on the road, but you still got speeding going on so I personally for one think it's worthy to think about I. Don't imagine we'd act on it tonight, but I do think. We should think about all these different speed lines and ask people who live there and drive those roads what they think. But you know we've got people all along where I live on South Lake Drive they've got Drive like this. Is your child drive like it's your child?

K

You remember what the sign says, but we've got a lot of them which mean the police are out there I see the cars out there, a lot they're patrolling it and people are still putting signs out there drive like it's. Your child I think is what it says. Well, that's indicating that people are concerned about this. You.

M

A

Maybe they're driving 30, but it seems like that should be over.

K

50, when you're out there, with your little kids so and they're close to the road, so I mean.

A

It's an issue and, and part of the problem is that's a collector out and people have driveways right on it and do we want to further that problem because we've allowed others to do it? Just let everybody do it I.

A

You know in we know it's not good practice, but that's what we have that's what we have at the lake. It's been like that for a long long time there.

L

Another question on that way: I know the the original comment was is to standardize the speed, but what that one section of highway 20 we're not gonna, do anything with. That's not our decision right. That's gonna stay at 45, no matter right and it should could.

L

Could we go in and add them and just mention what kind of talking about the same thing, but it seems like if I'm driving around that Lake, first of all, right personally I, don't think there should ever be a 45 or 40 mile, an hour zone out there just like, but if we came off at highway 20 where you're gonna go to City, Park, okay, so South Lake Drive all the way to the point that it hits old, 139 Pass sandy shore, if that was 25, and then from that point up to well what is it back up there to some point, I mean we buy the lodge or somewhere in the other, where access is highway.

L

20 again that it be 30 I mean. Couldn't we have two speeds around the lake? It seems like that. North northwest side is a little more worthy of the extra five miles per hour than than the south, just because it's a little less hilly and stuff.

K

L

I understand that then, but then you're not going if you say 25, they're gonna drive what they're comfortable with and and I will say and I made mention at last meeting I get out to the lake in the summer. That's when I mostly go out. There are diver out there in winter time and I will tell you know the speeding is terrible out there.

L

It is just terrible and when I say terrible, it's like gee, if you're driving, 40 in a 30, it just seems like in those areas, that's a lot and but I just throw that out as an option of 25 and 30, see how it goes. You know, instead of 25 all the way around and maybe creating a speed trap so to speak, see how it goes because, like I said, that's that West End seems a little more worthy of the 30 I, wouldn't keep it at 40 in the.

K

South we talked to chief might speak about it and he said 30 would be his recommended speed. Also on that from that stand from confess collides over to where you turn what.

L

About the other side in and.

K

Then 25 that's.

L

What seems reasonable to me.

K

F

If you're pulling a pontoon or a boat I mean it just says: extra stopping power, you just don't have I- mean the extra five miles an hour. It's you know another 50 feet to stop with big weight behind you, so it doesn't make any sense and to have all these different speed limits seems a bit ridiculous. I didn't even realize they were different. I.

E

Felt the same way as Adam I looked at this map and my whoa, you know but I. My feeling exactly was that there should not be any place around here. That should be more than 35 miles an hour. You know. So if the police and kind of the people who are representing that Ward and some of the discussion I would be in favor of trying something like that as well. What Mike suggested Glenn I.

B

Spent probably an hour hour and a half out there a couple of weeks ago to Monday afternoon along that that north and west side- and it was amazing all the different things that I encountered, trying to drive 40 miles now. We're, including some of that pulled right out in front of me, had I not been watching and going 40 I would have plowed right into them and that's what prompted the the we had a meeting that Dan referenced with a chief mcpeak and a few of us.

B

The mayor you were there just last week to discuss is I mean we're not I mean I, don't think we can make a change I. In fact, I know I can't make a change tonight, but I think definitely more uniformity around the lake with I I. Don't think it's realistic to look at changing anything the 25 lower than that I. Think Keith McPeak would would like that in places I think as people that live out there. We might like that, but I don't think that's realistic, but I think definitely the the area.

B

The 40 miles now are dropping that down to 30 miles an hour just for what it's worth should I. Don't have my notes right handy now, the difference in 202 Drive that stretch that's 40.

B

If you drive that 40 versus 30 all the way it takes about three minutes more to traverse that same that same section of ground. For this, for the sake of the safety, that's involved here.

B

Remember where that came from I think was when that was a state highway and the state people always want to move the traffic along as quickly as possible. That's for that 40 mile, an hour speed limit came from that's not a state highway anymore. That's up for up to us to control and I. Think it's incumbent upon us for safety purposes out there to look at at reducing that, and that would then lend itself to more uniformity with speed limits around the lake in general. I guess we're! Looking you know, suggest was.

B

Maybe we want to get some public input on this before he before he's a council make a decision I'm, not sure what the proper process is. I think this has been a controversial topic in the past and we're probably going to get fair amount of controversy generate for this conversation tonight. But to do nothing is not it's not an option, I mean because there it definitely is a safety safety factor out there in that least at 40 miles per hours of the area.

A

Agree my mayor.

P

With highway 20 being 45 there, if that were to change, that would have to be the state's decision.

A

We don't have authority to change that.

L

Mayor, do you know, is there any accident data around the lake that that would be compiled by the police or.

A

A

L

Know I'm sure it doesn't achieve the near misses are the concerns, but I mean it's always a bit of data. At least that can help you make a decision. Do.

A

We have an accident history.

W

Off the top of my head, I can't answer that question whether there is or isn't, but from my experience, I, don't recall there being very many pedestrian accidents, bicycle accidents, car versus mailbox, car versus car, whatever the situation is, it just doesn't seem like we have very many accidents at the lake I.

A

Would have to agree with that I. Just don't recall too many I live out there, I, don't recall hearing about accidents at the lake and when.

R

We had our meeting this past week. Chief did have a whole, a whole bundle of information based on all this different speed data, and they were there trying to set up if there was people actually speeding. If there was stuff going on and I I, don't know. If you can speak on that, but I know he said that that the data actually showed not very much.

S

W

They the ones that I can recall some of them were alcohol-related with speed late at night type situations. But you know: fires like I, say somebody walking to get their mail and having a car crash into their mailbox or something like that. We just we don't see a lot of those types of crashes out there, or even somebody back and from a driveway on a hill such as you see on the west side of the lake, and then you know ending up in an accident trying to back other driveway.

W

We just we don't see those types of crashes out there, but I did have some conversation with Chief mcpeak today and- and he basically said the same thing that you have said tonight- that maybe, if that 40 was reduced to a 30, maybe that would help to situation.

W

But of course, we'd like to see consistent, speed as much as possible to I mean, but it's just in this situation, with 17 18 miles of roadway, whatever it is around the lake, it's hard to have just one consistent speed way, considering the design of the roadways and the types of businesses you have with the golf course that sort of thing it just makes sense, maybe the west side, B 30 and the other side B 25, and we have small area 45 up on State Highway I.

E

Guess I would just rather be proactive instead of waiting for that guy to go out to smallpox and get smacked and in the summer it's just. Maybe it's because people have to slow down in the summer and I.

E

Don't know you know or I have to be more vigilant, but I know for a fact too that if I'm gonna get a ticket, it's gonna be when it goes from three twenty-five to forty, no I'm just kidding, I I agree with what everybody said, but I don't want to wait until we have a whole compilation of accident data to make a change. I. Let I'd rather have us, make a change and not have any accidents so I just.

J

Want to say, I think it makes sense to me that we change the 40 to 30 and the rest would stay, as is it's posted. We get the signage people are used to most of that, but it doesn't make sense to me to slow that.

W

Area down most likely.

W

Drive to work and they don't want to drive 30 they'd rather drive 40, but you know, like councilman Bill Haller said: what's it actually two minutes on your trip to be safe and be safe for others as well.

A

E

A

The next step well.

A

Public input I think that we would need to do.

F

Be could we make a recommendation that we done yes, yeah I, I guess I'd make the recommendation that essentially from where South Lake Drive starts there by City Park until where it hits itself Dakota Highway 139 there that would be 25 and then, from that point back to highway 20 you know be 30 and then just ask for public input from the general public that are out there, as well as input from the police department and anyone else that would have to. We.

A

Could do a public hearing, yeah and I.

F

Just like to see what what people are thinking yeah to.

A

What you're proposing yeah.

F

I mean that's what I would I would.

A

So it's a the on the south side from where to where, from.

F

Where Salt Lake Drive starts off highway 20 there until where it hits 139, which is by sandy shore, just pass any shores at 25. Okay,.

A

Even the part that that's 35, they that used to be 25 yeah.

G

I was just going to say that just recently.

A

I think it's four or five years ago: it there's nothing there. It's there.

F

No houses there, it's just uniformity, why's that that's.

L

It's just easier.

F

And what is it a quarter-mile half-mile? It's? How can I add yep.

A

Beacons everything on the south simply for consistency, I would.

F

And leave highway 20. Obviously we can't touch that so. Okay.

N

F

Would be my recommendation and then I would ask for public input at the next meeting.

K

You know where the park is their City Park. When you go north there are a lot of houses in there now you know, and it was when they change it to 35, but there.

V

Are a lot of house.

K

I don't know if there are a lot of kids, but there are a lot of houses on.

F

The Salt Lake Drive right down.

A

K

Yeah they all have that.

A

Okay, so we have, we have a recommendation and I, don't know that we need action, but we can bring that back as a public hearing for input. I.

W

Think we at the police department can appreciate councilman l'olam suggestion of at about sandy shores, their change it to 30, go all the way up to highway 20 and then on the other side, 25 from office, South, Lake, Drive, you're off of highway 20, all the way to sandy shores again, so the two speed zones, the 30 and the 25, with the exception, of course. The golf course where it's 15 yeah.

A

F

A

Consummate Villar.

B

Are you suggesting there now we take public input at a future council meeting.

N

B

Have us to have a special public meeting at some point specifically for this well.

A

I think, what's due a meeting and a public hearing.

K

Well, this has been on television tonight if the mayor talks about it, Wednesday and.

N

K

If we it'll be in the newspaper I mean so and on the radio, so I I think it's gonna get and then, if we say next time we're going to decide, I mean I'd like if we're gonna do it I'd like to we.

F

Could we could put it on the work session for next Wednesday too sure.

A

F

Know that would give them another opportunity to come in and talk about it and.

A

Then it's another opportunity to hear that there's going to be a public hearing.

F

A

You remember that Colin so.

F

We put it on there, and then we put it on for two weeks from today. Is agenda item and.

S

F

As the first agenda item that way, people yeah they don't have to sit through the whole thing. Good.

A

H

Sure you can put it on Facebook too, and I.

A

Think you're right there all right moving on. Are there any liaison member reports or well? Let me back up with any other new business. Any liaison number reports there's no need to go into executive session. So I'll look for a motion to adjourn, had a motion from councilman Solem and a second by Councilman. Why? All those in favor signify by saying aye, those opposed signify for say, nay, motion carries.