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From YouTube: WG Platforms Project Meeting - 2023-04-26
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A
I
am
going
to
resume
the
recording
and
we'll
get
started,
so
we
have
a
couple
familiar.
A
Here
and
one
of
the
things
I'll
just
say,
one
of
the
things
I
was
inspired
by
a
kubecon
is
to
try
to
be
as
welcoming
as
we
can
to
new
faces,
and
you
know
for
people
that
want
to
contribute,
find,
find
ways
for
you
to
contribute
and
take
advantage
of
your
energy,
and
so
I
was
thinking.
Maybe
we
start
by
just
people
that
are
new,
just
say
what
you
work
on
and
your
name.
A
C
Okay,
I'll
start
hi
everyone.
My
name
is
solution
architect
for
containers
at
AWS,
working
with
startup
customers.
Now
before
that,
I
was
covering
Israeli
region,
part
of
the
wider
emea
and.
C
Other
than
focusing
on
containers
like
any
any
container
technology
related
conversations,
I'm
leading
the
internal
gearbox
group,
focusing
on
Building
Solutions
around
github's
platform.
We
see
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
discussions
around
like
platform
engineering
platform
separation
of
concerns
like
people
building
customers,
feeling
that
developer
has
too
much
button
on
their
shoulders
and
try
to
create
some
sort
of
balance
between
like
a
new,
a
new
way
of
helping
developers
to
build
better
investor
delivery
of
their
applications.
E
And
we're
all
trying
to
enable
our
developers
to
have
like
a
self-service
platform.
So
obviously
platform
engineering
is
yeah.
The
most
interesting
topic
for
me
at
the
moment,
yeah
and
I
joined
them
like
in
December,
but
before
I
already
well
had
some
some
experiences
with
trying
to
convert
a
devops
team,
I
know
to
platform,
engineering
and
so
yeah,
currently
just
trying
to
achieve
it
a
little
bit
more
yeah
like
with
a
sophisticated
solution
and
yeah.
A
Nice
thanks
yeah
I
like
how
you
said,
converting
devops
to
platforms.
That's
yeah,
interesting
way
to
say
it.
F
Right
I'll
go
next,
Nicholas
invited
me
I'm,
also
a
first
time
here
very
nice
to
meet
you
guys,
I'm,
also
working
at
the
Dodger
site
on
my
biggest
newspaper
in
Germany
and
I,
don't
have
to
say
much
more
than
Nick
Nicholas
we're
trying
to
enable
our
teams
to
deliver
great
products
in
our
cloud
and
yeah
also
looking
to
contribute
and
see.
What's
in
there
for
me
and
for
you.
A
D
Yes,
Jorge
Le
Fiesta
I
am
based
in
Barcelona
I
work
for
roadie.io.
It's
a
startup
giving
customers
backstage
as
a
service
and
I
love
backstage,
so
I
love
developer
portals
as
well.
So
that's
how
I
got
involved
into
the
platform
working
group
I
had
the
the
log
of
Millie
and
Josh
and
Abby
last
week
in
cubecon
and
I
I,
really
like
the
energy
that
both
you
had
so
I
I
thought
I
wanted
to
contribute.
Whatever
I
can.
A
G
And
I
take
the
opportunity.
We
also
met
in
the
I
think
in
Amsterdam
last
week,
where
the
link
was
my
colleagues,
that
you
think
that
you
are
Josh.
You're
already
also
had
a
small
thing
or
small
conversation.
I
think
at
the
rapid
party
and
I
had
a
thing
as
a
chance
to
meet
I.
Think
also.
G
G
Developer
experience,
so
we
think
that
we
have
the
development
list
of
platform
abroad
to
enable
link
to
entable
many
many
applications,
delivery
teams
in
the
Deutsche
Bank
ecosystem.
For
that
we
have
thing,
we
have
zability
several
clusters
up
and
running.
G
G
Nice
could
be
a
great
solution,
so
we
I
definitely
have
in
that
point
interest
for
exchange
and
today,
I
think
I
just
hope
to
think
I
could
find
more
out
about
the
thing
or
about
the
working
group,
and
if
the
thing,
if
that's
the
thing,
a
thing
that
way
can
connect
you
thanks
for
having
me.
A
A
A
So
it's
kind
of
the
second
section
in
the
notes
here
and
I'll
I'll
take
this
and
just
discuss.
This
is
kind
of
based
on
discussions
with
with
Abby
with
Robert,
with
Thomas,
with
always
at
the
the
booth
and
stuff
last
week.
A
We
didn't
call
them
platform
capabilities
when
we
started,
but
now
we
have
a
term
for
it.
So
that's
you
know,
everything
is
related
to
that.
Probably
the
most
like
I
mentioned.
The
most
valuable
thing
we
need
now
is
experience
reports
learning
from
folks,
like
you
Sven
and
Nicholas
what
you
know
just
describing
your
platform,
the
struggles
you've
had
the
things
that
might
be
most
important
for
us
to
tackle.
A
You
know
things
that
we
could
augment
the
paper
with
or
other
efforts
that
are
going
on
I
kind
of
put.
We
don't
have
to
talk
now,
but
in
the
next
section,
I
put
like
some
ideas
for
that.
A
In
fact,
maybe
we
should
just
build
that
up
here,
like
so
I'm
gonna
move
that
up
in
the
notes
from
the
from
the
next
section
since
might
as
well
just
talk
about
it
right
here.
Some
of
the
things
we
we
talked
about
at
the
conference
about
ways
to
share
experience.
Reports
were
well
for
one.
You
could
record
a
short
video.
You
know.
A
I
really
should
start
with
the
third
in
this
list,
which
is
you
can
come
to
these
meetings
and
I
actually
was
going
to
ask
if
we
might
dedicate
you
know
five
or
ten
minutes
of
these
meetings,
probably
more
like
10
minutes
per
per
report.
But
if
say
Sven
you
or
one
of
your
Architects
wants
to
come
and
present
to
us
for,
say,
10
minutes
in
a
future
meeting
about
here's
our
story,
you
know
focusing
on
what
was
difficult.
You
know
things
that
we
could
improve
for
you.
A
Maybe
the
you
know
the
places
where
it
fits
with
the
way
we've
described,
but
I
I'm.
You
know
trying
to
think
where
you
know
to
kind
of
give
you
some
guidance
but.
B
We
could
create
some
sort
of
like
set
questions
that
people
could
choose
to
use
if
it
helps
right
like
not
forcing
anyone
to
present
in
a
certain
way,
but
it's
by
saying
start
by
what's
the
scale
of
your
company
then
share
the
state
of
the
team
before
your
transformation,
why
you
went
about
like
there's
sort
of
things
to
help
people
guide
a
conversation
for
people
who
aren't
as
experienced
in
writing
their
own
presentations
for
people
who
are
take
us
on
the
journey
do
do
as
you
best
doozy.
Please.
G
The
small
part
that
I
already
told
in
the
past
is
weirding.
We
are
a
highly
regulated
company,
I
think
auditing,
all
the
budget
on
adding
as
part
of
in
several
parts,
part
of
the
thing
of
critical
infrastructure.
So
we
think
we
always
think
we
always
when
we
talk
we
or
a
few
parts.
We
can
talk
about
Republic,
because
I
think
we
have
staff
funding
on
presentations
that
are
already
well
known
in
the
public
and
other
parts.
G
G
Deutsche
Bank
is
very
rich
to
get
to
the
right
people
in
it,
because
we
think
we
are
in
part
that
usually
think
that
even
the
resource
will
have
a
couple
of
thousands
of
I
think
our
employees
and
we
also
on
otago
about
the
business,
the
digital
partner
project
on
other
parts.
We
are
other
parts,
are
a
long
distance,
I
think
long
distance
traffic
companies.
So
it
will
be
a
little
bit.
G
It
will
be
a
little
bit
effort
to
get
the
people
closer
together,
but
I
think
as
our
thing
as
a
Cornelius
Schumer,
our
our
open
source,
that
is,
a
contact
person
for
cncf
I,
try
my
best,
however
I
told
Abby
I
will
write
my
best
to
get
the
things
a
little
bit
closer,
but
please
don't
have
two
rapid
expectations
in
the
first
and
I
think
and
on
beginning
of
June
I
I
will
not
stay
in
Germany
for
10
weeks.
I
will
be
anything
in
on
a
synthetic
and
I
think
in
Colombia.
G
B
I
think
it's,
it
definitely
don't
feel
too
much
pressure
for
any
one
person.
I
can
definitely
enjoy
the
sabbatical.
What
I'm
thinking
also
is
that
you
can
suggest
it
to
colleagues
or
friends
in.
F
B
People
who,
like
you,
know
you
previous
colleagues,
who
are
working
at
different
companies
if
they
would
be
interested
in
it,
would
be
helpful
to
have
you
identify
or
help,
and
this
is
by
you
I
mean
everybody
in
the
call.
Not
just
you
spin,
don't
worry
it's
not
all
on
you,
but
like
to
identify
people
who
might
want
to
join
a
queue
of
people
that
could
do
that
right.
G
Directly,
first
actions,
I
think
I,
think
I
forwarded
I
forwarded
the
working
groups,
a
white
paper
underlying
on
platforms
to
our
link,
to
also
to
our
CTO
area
and
I.
Think,
although
you're
adding
Europe
area
model
so
that
I
think
I
will
think
I
will
just
I
will
start
building
the
the
conversational
combination
in
in
that
way,.
A
E
One
one
important
thing:
I
guess,
is:
if
you're
joining
like
local,
meetups
and
stuff
just
talk
about
it,
because
from
my
perspective,
it
was
just
like
browsing
it
and
browsing
repositories
and
I
just
stumbled
upon
it,
and
if
it
gets
more,
a
broader
like
knowledge
to
everybody,
then
yeah,
probably
it's
easier
to
find
people
and
I
mean
meetups
happen
everywhere.
Just
talk
to
people.
E
Perspective
I,
guess
it's
not
that
much
regulated!
However
I
would
have
to
talk
to
my
manager
as
well.
Obviously,
I
would
well
I
would
suggest
to
just
do
that.
First
and
then
I'll
come
back
with
ideas,
yeah.
A
Cool
yeah:
this
is
kind
of
the
first
discussion
of
that
I
guess
yeah.
So
I
put
down
a
couple
more
thing:
ideas
that
came
up
we're,
recording
a
short
video,
open,
a
PR,
all
right.
Let's
go
ahead
and
move
on
to
the
next
another
way
to
contribute
here
is
prototypes
I
put
up
potato
head
because
Thomas
did
a
nice
refactor
of
it
Thomas
shoots
who's.
One
of
the
leads
for
the
tag
did
a
nice
refactor
the
past
few
weeks.
A
If
you
go
in
there,
one
of
the
reposes,
like
Potato
Head
deliveries,
I,
think,
and
it
has
like
an
example
of
how
to
deliver
with
Argo,
with
deliver
with
flux.
Deliver
with
Captain
feel
free
to
extend
that.
That
was
one
of
the
ways
I
got
started
with
this
group
actually
was
just
bringing
in
some
more
projects
there
yeah
next
next
thing
I
wanted
to
mention
is:
is
deeper
investigation?
We've
been
talking
about
this
for
six
months:
I!
A
Guess
everybody
gotta
bring
this
up,
but
in
the
capability
domains
like
let's
say,
API,
Frameworks
or
portal,
you
know
capabilities
or
I'm,
pretty
passionate
about
secrets
and
service
bindings.
So
I've
been
thinking
about
pursuing
another
level
of
depth
there.
A
We
actually
have
a
group
that
we're
in
the
process
of
forming
now
around
artifacts
that
wants
to
bring
together
projects
and
Publishers
of
different
kinds
of
cloud
native,
artifacts,
obviously
container
images,
but
not
really
container
images,
everything
else
and
they're
starting
up
a
working
group.
A
Some
of
the
topics
that
came
up
while
we
were
at
Amsterdam
I
mean
API
patterns,
which
was
really
my
passion
before
I
I
started
working
on
the
platforms
paper,
but
I
kind
of
let
that
fall,
but
like
all
of
the
layers
that
end
up
over
the
kubernetes
API,
is
there
any
consistency
we
can
pursue
there?
That's
an
example
multi-tenancy,
which
we
kind
of
glossed
over
kind
of
in
the
first
paper,
because
it's
not
so
relevant
to
the
individual
tenants.
Maybe
you
could
argue
with
that,
but
that's
that's
one.
A
That's
come
up
and
a
couple
portal
ones
I
mentioned
this
to
Jorge,
because
we
were
chatting
about
capabilities
of
portals
I
think
it
would
be
pretty
cool
to
to
talk
about.
You
know
what
are
the
capabilities
that
are
in
a
portal,
and
that
would
help
us
all
understand
when
our
customers
ask
about
backstage
what
they
really
want.
A
So
that's
a
bigger,
that's,
a
bigger
commitment
and
it's
a
lot
of
there's
a
lot
of
you
know
hurting
cats
involved
if
you
want
to
bring
together
projects
and
things,
but
but
there's
a
lot
of
return
for
our
end,
users
I
feel
like
in
the
end,
if
we
can
find
ways
to
simplify
these
these
domains
for
them
yeah.
So
that's
that's
one.
A
The
next
one
review
and
share
reports
on
incoming
projects,
so
this
I
kind
of
need
to
talk
over
with
the
whole
tag,
but
that
was
a
theme
that
I
heard
at
kubecon
and
which
are
you
know
the
tag
as
a
whole.
All
tags
probably
need
to
strengthen
the
muscle
on
which
is
all
these
incoming
sandbox
projects,
even
some
that
are
already
there.
What
are
they?
Where
do
they
fit
into
things?
What
is
the
you
know?
A
Core
architecture
boil
it
down
for
us
and
present
whether
you
you
know
if
it's
your
own
project
great,
if
even
if
it's
not
just
you
know,
present
your
experience
for
10
minutes
to
us,
it's
another
another
way
to
help
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
be
in
this
meeting
by
the
way.
There's
also
the
this.
A
This
work
group
is
part
of
the
greater
tag
which
is
dedicated
to
applications
on
kubernetes,
so
some
of
the
stuff
May
belong
in
that
meeting
and
then
the
last
one
which
I
felt
like
I,
realized
a
lot
in
this
last
kubecon
Leanne
Lee,
who
stepped
up
a
lot
for
us
to
help.
You
know
make
sure
that
we
were
thinking
about
what
we
needed
to
think
about
for
the
event
for
the
website
printing
out.
You
know,
papers
and
stuff,
if
you're
good
at
that
or
can
contribute
on
that
another
way
to
help
us.
D
B
D
It's
exciting,
at
least
for
me,
because
I
think
I
put
the
help
with
several
pieces.
So
it's
it's
so
clear
to
me
like
how?
How
does
that
work
because,
for
example,
I
I,
like
marketing
is
definitely
something
that
I
do
so
that's
something
I
could
do
or
help
others
people
find
people
that
are
are
gonna.
Take
like
this.
This
presentations
or
I
can
work
on
the
developer
portal
thing
as
well.
So
it's.
A
A
Good
question:
it's
kind
of
self-driven
yeah.
If
you
identify
something
you're,
passionate
about,
don't
be
afraid,
I
mean
it's
natural
to
be
a
little
afraid.
I
am
a
little
afraid
but
like
because
you're
going
out
there
and
there's
no
one
saying
yes
do
this,
but
if
you
see
something
that
you're
passionate
about
and
you
think
will
be
valuable,
then
then
pursue
it.
B
I've
only
been
around
for
six
months
or
so
in
the
community
in
this
in
this
working
group,
and
so
I
basically
have
watched
Josh
take
through
the
white
paper
from
like
a
very
strong
draft,
but
a
draft
coming
into
Detroit
to
it
being
now
published
and
widely
you
kind
of
reference,
the
news
and
all
that
and
so
I'm
sort
of
now
trying
it's
like
C1,
do
one
so
I'm
now
trying
to
do
that
with
the
maturity
model
right.
B
There's
opportunity:
I
guess
if
you're
really
passionate
about
something
in
confidence,
something
to
start
your
own
issue
and
kind
of
just
ask
questions
as
you
go
if
you're,
if
you're
feeling
unsure
or
to
jump
on
one
of
the
things
that's
currently
sort
of
in
flight
as
like
a
participant,
but
only
do
that
if
you
actually
want
to
be
involved
like
it's,
not
gonna,
be
very
fun
for
you
to
be
on
the
maturity
model.
If
that
means
nothing
to
you
and
you're,
not
interested
and
I'm,
not
offended,
but
like
it.
B
Just
wouldn't
it's
much
more
important
to
be
passionate
about
the
thing
you're
working
on
I
think
than
and
even
if
that
means
starting
something
new,
get
a
new
issue
going,
we're
all
here
to
help
and
figure
out
what
the
best
ways
to
do
stuff.
So
I'm,
just
saying
that
was
my
my
journey
and
that
built
a
bit
of
confidence
for
myself
on
how
to
take
forward
an
idea.
I
had
so
yeah.
I
There's
probably
not
a
single
way
to
get
stuff
done,
that's
kind
of
the
issue
as
well,
because
we
don't
really
have
like
a
defined
path
on
how
to
do
anything
really.
But
you
know
if
you,
if,
if
there's
something
that
fits
under
the
Tag,
app
delivery
and
any
of
its
working
groups
and
or
projects
depending
on
how
you
look
at
it,
get.
E
I
Gosh,
thank
you
get
it
as
an
issue
first,
just
because
that
makes
sense.
Do
you
have
somewhere
to
point
towards?
I
Usually
one
ends
up
then
putting
that
into
slack
to
get
kind
of
that
dialogue
with
people
and
if
it's
something
that
fits
for
the
platforms
working
group
feel
free
to
bring
it
into
the
next,
the
working
group,
a
meeting
just
by
adding
it
to
the
docs
for
the
for
agenda
for
the
next
meeting
or
and
or
if
it
works,
or
it's
it's
more
in
the
Tag
app
delivery
in
like
general
meeting
or
if
it's
something
related
to
get
Ops,
then
they
open
get
us
meetings
is
probably
the
more
fitting
place
to
pull
it
up,
but
just
get
it
as
in
as
an
issue
and
then
kind
of
reference
that
I
think
is
is
the
best
way
to
do
stuff.
B
Just
be
more
concretely
answering
your
actual
question:
Josh
sorry
I
went
on
tangent
there
on
if
there's
other
ways
to
contribute,
I
did
propose
in
a
sub
bullet
above
that
there's
I
think
a
very
concrete
role.
If
anyone
is
actually
passionate
about
this
again,
don't
sign
up
for
something
you
don't
want
to
do,
because
it's
not
going
to
last
long
you're
not
going
to
enjoy
it,
but
I
think
there's
space
for
someone
to
kind
of
organize
and
rally
people
around
these
end
user
reports
coming
to
these
meetings.
B
I
think
that
that's
a
group
of
humans
that
may
or
may
not
be
long-term
attendees
of
these
meetings.
They
may
be
people
who
are
who
want
to
drop
in,
say
their
piece
maybe
come
once
or
twice
else,
but
not
really
be
long-term
contributors.
So
that's
like
a
kind
of
a
separate
cycle
of
of
activities,
and
so
if
and
it's
quite
a
concrete
piece
of
work
right
find
and
find
people
who
are
in
platform
teams
ask
them
to
do
a
10
minute
presentation
give
them
the
support.
B
They
need
to
be
to
make
that
presentation,
successful
and
and
repeat
so,
if
anyone
who's
here
or
who
ends
up
listening
to
the
video
or
whatever
wants
to
do
something
like
that.
I
think
that
would
be
a
good.
G
I
think
I
think
the
thing
that
that
is
a
challenge
for
many
many
companies.
In
the
thing
at
the
moment,
you're
already
eating
already
I
mentioned
it
right.
Blood
funding.
The
Bloodstone
definition
is
some
kind
of
variety.
Very.
A
very
raped
wording
in
the
today
regarding
a
very
everything
is
blood
from
nothing
is
platform.
G
I
think
the
thing
I
think
the
organizational
part
as
I
think
is
a
big
challenge
for
things
for,
for
many,
many
organizations
howling
how
to
I
think
how
to
to
enter
the
thing
enter
the
road,
your
products,
reading
the
big
companies
one
to
seven,
want
to
sell
a
lot,
but
anything
but
one
year,
I
think
when
you
try
to
think
to
to
begin
that
I
think
begin.
G
The
journey
we're
building
over
the
platform
for
a
huge
for
a
huge
organization,
how
the
thing
what
is
important,
how
to
think
how
to
set
up
teams?
What
a
thing?
What
kind
of
thing?
What
kind
of
knowledge
you
should
have
putting
up
above
everybody
embroidering?
What
is
the
thing?
What
what
are
the
first
important
steps?
I
think
I.
G
Think
in
your
thing,
in
your
organization
to
think
to
for
a
possibility
to
summarizing
to
collect
the
thing
to
collect
requirements,
what
are
best
practices
and
I
think
and
I'm
a
little
bit
curious
about
I,
think
about
one
thing:
I
think
Maurice
I,
think
Maurice
told
it
anything
in
Amsterdam
on
the
one
part,
don't
think
don't
try
to
think
don't
try
to
maintain
artifacts
on
the
other
side,
I
think
a
living
object,
some
kind
of
some
kind
of
a
thing
of
of
a
thing
of,
let
me
say,
a
Sandbox
environment
where
the
thing
where
people
can
get
experience
is
I
think
is
also
a
great
challenge
to
think
to
explore
things.
G
A
Yeah
I
was
about
to
type
in
here
based
on
I.
Think,
that's
a
good,
segue
and
I
was
going
to
ask
Abby
if
we
want
to
skip
and
discuss
the
work
that
you're
proposing
and
that
you're
started
on
the
platform.
Maturity
model
and
I
think
that
one
of
my
questions
which
I
dropped
in
there
is
you
know
what
about
other
aspects
of
of
the
platform
that,
like
the
things
that
you're
discussing
spend
I
mean
for
me
inculcating
a
product
mindset
or
something
so.
A
You
mind
just
talking
about
what
you're
doing
there.
B
Definitely
I
think
as
I
a
little
bit
referred
to
earlier,
I
sort
of
went
through
the
the
journey
that
I
witnessed
just
go
on
with
the
or
like
I
was
trying
to
repeat
that
Journey.
So
in
the
sense
that
it's
really
hard
to
start
something
from
scratch.
B
So
I
kind
of
took
a
stab
at
writing
I
and
we
it
was
it
was
a
group
of
us,
took
a
stab
at
writing
a
maturity
model,
the
goals
behind
writing.
It
were
to
acknowledge
that
there
are
nuances
to
how
you
get
success
from
platform
engineering
that
can,
without
discussion
or
without
Clarity,
make
you
feel
like.
B
Isn't
this
just
Dev
and
Ops
again
or
isn't
this
just
devops
or
depending
on
what
angle
you're
looking
at
it
from,
and
so
the
maturity
model
very
explicitly
tries
to
call
out
behaviors
that
we
think
detract
from
getting
that
the
positive
outcomes
of
platform
engineering
by
calling
those
out
as
level
one.
They
may
be
successful
for
your
company,
but
they're,
probably
not
going
to
lead
you
to
towards
the
the
outcomes
of
platform
engineering
and
then
explicitly
call
out
the
positive
behaviors.
B
We
do
see
as
contributing
factors
to
success
so
platform,
engineering
and
platforms,
so
yeah
I
took
a
stab
at
making
some
aspects.
There's
a
lot
of
really
good
discussions
that
we
had
with
a
lot
of
really
great
people
about
it.
That
are
big
questions
like.
Should
this
even
be
a
maturity
model,
or
is
there
a
different
shape
of
document?
B
B
There
was
a
whole
lot
of
really
good
feedback
and
a
whole
lot
of
disagreement,
but
it
was
all
nuanced
enough,
and
enough
like
this
is
like
it
was
passionate
around
the
fact
that
this
should
exist
and
I
care
deeply
about
like
an
aspect
of
it
or
not,
not
that
this
document
shouldn't
exist,
and
so
that's
why
we
sort
of
got
to
a
point
where
I
felt
comfortable
to
bring
it
to
a
community
of
people
that
I
thought
would
make
sure
we
had
it
be
from
the
voices
of
people
that
would
use
it
and
the
voices
of
people
who
would
benefit
from
it
so
yeah.
B
So
that's
that's
where
we
stand
is
that
it's
just
a
draft
there's
no
permanency
with
any
of
this,
with
structure
of
it
with
content
of
it
or
anything,
and
so
I
would
suggest.
The
only
awkwardness
right
now
is
that
I
was
suggested
by
oh
Scott,
Scott
Rigby
to
Move
It
from
a
Google
doc
into
a
GitHub
repo
and
I
haven't
taken
that
action.
X
I
want
to
make
sure
I
structure
it
in
a
way
where
the
barrier
to
entry
remains
low.
B
So
one
of
the
positives
of
a
repo
is
or
I
mean
sorry
one
of
the
positive
Google
doc.
Is
that,
like
pretty
much,
everyone
has
access
to
a
Google
account
where
they
can
comment
anonymously
on
a
document
versus,
if
you
put
it
in
a
GitHub
repo,
there's
a
little
bit
more
barrier
to
entry?
There
of
you
need
to
be
someone
who
actually
knows
how
to
use
GitHub
and
we
need
to
structure
issues
in
a
way
that
they're
discoverable
and
discussions
can
can
flourish
rather
than
have
them
be
like
isolated
or
siled
into
small
areas.
B
So
I
guess
I'd
be
curious.
Like
a
question
to
the
group,
here
is:
if
the
group
here
feels
passionately
about
us
retaining
the
Google
Doc
structure
for
the
early
days,
discussions
or
if
the
group
here
thinks
the
move
to
GitHub
would
make
more
sense,
because
I'm
sort
of
torn
I
can
see
arguments
both
ways
but
yeah.
So
at
this
stage,
looking
for
a
place
to
drive
great
conversation
and
that
conversation
to
get
started,
so
please
review
it
and
and
add
people,
and
that
you
think,
would
be
great
contributors
and
that
kind
of
thing.
B
So
anybody
have
a
opinion
on
Google
Docs
versus
GitHub.
I
guess
is
where
it
is.
H
Excuse
me,
hi
I
ended
up
being
able
to
come
by
everyone.
Well,
my
from
previous
experience
with
the
operator
white
paper.
We
did
start
on
on
a
Google,
doc
and
I
feel
like
I
I'm
also
torn
I
mean
ideally,
yes
like
we
would
start
with
the
perf
like
a
guitar,
git
Hub
project
and
then
having
guidance
for
people
to
contribute.
H
However,
like
you
said
you
still
like
in
the
early
phases-
and
maybe
you
don't
know
for
sure
how
to
encourage
people
and
then
it
might
become
a
bit
of
a
people-
might
just
not
be
sure
and
come
to
the
meeting
anyway.
So
perhaps
reassess
like
take.
Maybe
a
few
rounds
like
I
would
say:
maybe
a
couple
more
meetings
or
three
meetings
whatever
and
then
reassess
and
say
like
if
we
were
to
do
it,
asynchronously
ask
for
contribution
and
asked
for
opinions.
Asynchronously.
I
Yeah
I.
B
I
Just
thinking
that,
if
you
know
while
this
is
getting,
you
know
a
little
bit,
it's
still
draft
there's
still
work
that
I
think
could
be
done
before
we
move
it
to
get
up.
I
feel
that
if
it's
supposed
to
be
in
get
up,
it
should
be
not
necessarily
like
a
version
of
of
something
but
but
something
that's
closing
in
on
it
and
you'll
get
it
on
your
own
branch,
and
you
can
ask
for
comments
and
people.
I
Saying
yes,
and-
and
you
know
you
could
ask
for
help
through
get
up
issues
and
everything
like
that
and
kind
of
have
that
type
of
workflow,
while
the
document
kind
of
is
a
live
document
that
is
happening
and
well
Google
Docs
that
or
I
know
also
like
hack,
MD
and
stuff
like
that.
But
you
know
obviously,
at
that
point
you
need
something
else
that
you
know
also
requires
you
to
sorry.
The
dog
is
playing
yeah.
I
It's
not
me
so
I
think
I
think
it's
I
think
it's
fine
as
it
right
now.
As
a
start,
I
think
some
of
it.
I
It
is
hard
to
get
a
lot
of
these
things
up
and
running
at
first
and
I,
think
it
would
be
beneficial
to
have
some
sort
of
like
even
meeting
structure
around
just
the
maturity
model
like
for
specific
people
that
are
that
want
to
be
very
much
involved
and
like
if
you
can
get
like
the
the
first
draft,
so
to
speak,
kind
of
a
little
bit
more
structured
and
and
kind
of
ready
to
move
into
GitHub
I
think
that
would
kind
of
be
the
best
of
both
worlds.
In
my
opinion,
okay.
B
Yeah
great
I
think
so
I
guess
the
call
to
action
to
anyone
who
watches
the
video
or
who's
here.
If
you
would
like
to
be
someone
who
joins
those
kinds
of
calls,
please
make
your
presence
known
on
the
GitHub
issue
and
then
maybe
what
we'll
do
is
try
and
create
a
meeting
around.
B
Some
of
those
big
questions,
like
is
maturity,
model
the
right
structure
and
and
those
kinds
of
things
that
are
like
hard
to
have
in
comments
and
then
once
we
get
that
sorted,
we'll
open
for
like
comments
Mayhem
for
a
couple
weeks
and
then
try
and
narrow
in
with
another
meeting
or
something
as
we
go
so
yeah.
Please.
A
H
I
have
just
one
more
question
on
the
maturity
model:
I
I
understand
that
we
are
going
to
put
sorry.
So
we
are
going
to
go
to
the
next
topic.
Not
maturity
model
now
and
then
have
issues
and
then
talk
about
it
later.
So,
like
I
I
have
a
question
about
the
maturity
model.
Now
should
I
add
it,
should
they
reserve
for
adding
it
to
an
issue?
Now
on
the
repository
or
ask
now.
B
H
B
We
haven't
talked
about
in
this
group
I'm,
so
glad
you
asked
so
I
met
Simon,
who
is
one
of
the
contributors
to
the
cloud
native
one
and
he's
he
sort
of?
Has
we've
had
that
chat
that
he
sees
it
as
as
additive,
in
the
sense
that
the
cloud
native
is
is
a
higher
level
than
this
one.
B
This
is
like
a
bit
more
focused
on
the
platform
side,
I
think
so
he
is
quite
actually
energized
about
it.
He
lives
in
the
same
city
as
me.
We're
gonna,
try
and
get
together
to
understand,
like
learn,
learnings
that
he
had
and
how
he
structured
it,
how
he
released
it.
How
and
all
those
things
to
try
and
make
sure
that
we,
we
learned
some
lessons
and
apply
it.
So,
yes,
definitely
in
the
like
conversation,
no,
no
concrete,
like
learnings
applied
yet
or
concrete
decisions
made
yet
because.
H
A
Because
I
was
gonna,
ask
about
that
so
perfect,
all
right!
Let's
move
on
to
the
survey,
so
we
had
started
work
on
a
survey
with
a
couple
different
goals,
one
to
get
the
Baseline
of
certain
metrics
and
things
and
another
to
maybe
bring
people
in
for
user
experience
reports.
Michael.
Do
you
want
to
talk
about
that?
You've
been
leading
that
effort.
J
Yeah
and
actually
jumping
up
from
your
question
around
product
mindsets,
probably
a
good
way
to
tie
into
kind
of
Abby
and
the
team's
work
on
the
maturity
model,
stop
so
after
reading,
first
finding
out
that
it
exists
and
reading
it,
it's
actually
very
complementary
to
like
the
original
platform
paper
sets
the
stage
the
maturity.
The
platform
maturity
is
more
like
framework
Hands-On,
you
know.
Where
are
you
on
this
path?
J
How
do
you
get
to
where
you
really
want
to
go
and
the
one
we're
working
on
which
we're
going
to
get
out
there
for
people
to
look
at
when
there's
like
a
readable
draft
of
it
is
more
on
the
product
mindset
like
what
does
it
mean
to
actually
operationalize
a
product
mindset
in
leadership
and
on
the
team
like
how
do
you
actually
work
that
way?
How
do
you
define
it?
What
are
the
components
of
it
and
then
what
are
the
kind
of
organizational
preconditions
for
you
to
actually
take
the
platform
seriously
as
a
initiative?
J
Once
we
post
it
up,
I'm
sure
we'll
get
to
the
constructively
contentious
stage
board.
People
will
have
their
own
thoughts
on
it
and
we
can
give
it
better
shape,
but
the
the
survey
is
now
done
in
the
sense
that
there
is
a
Google
forms.
Draft
really
needs
really
a
conversation
around
how
you
know
like
final
approval
from
anybody
who
needs
to
take
a
look
at
it
and
how
do
we
get
it
out
into
the
world?
J
It
is
a
combination
of
kind
of
two
things.
One
is
getting
a
light
gauge
of
the
maturity
of
the
platform
across
companies
across
regions
and
then
for
us
specifically
for
the
paper.
Is
we
want
to
talk
to
these
people,
so
we
want
to
qualify
them
very
quickly.
Are
you
a
builder
or
your
consumer?
We
get
a
sense
of
where
they
are
with
the
platform,
and
then
we
want
to
talk
to
those
people,
because
we
want
to
include
those
insights
in
the
actual
paper.
J
A
I
think
I
think
you're
right
that
we
kind
of
need
some
more
eyes
on
it.
To
give
the
final
reviews
and-
and
you
know,
sign
off
so
folks
in
here,
I
posted
Michael
I
know
you
put
it
into
the
notes.
Yeah
put
it
into
the
chat
here.
People
want
to
check
it
out.
A
If
and
then
you
know
it's
it's
not
it's
not
too
hard
to
publish
it.
You
just
turn
it
on
in
Google
forms
and
then
we
can
maybe
publish
a
blog
post,
I
guess
on
our
own
blog.
I
J
I
J
A
J
J
If
we
don't
finish
it
off,
it's
going
to
keep
dragging
so
yeah,
let's
post
that
out
that
get
your
comments
in
past
a
certain
point:
they're
just
going
to
go
out
in
the
state
in
the
state
that
it's
in
you
know
it
doesn't
have
to
be
a
hundred
percent
perfect
we're
going
to
iterate
on
versions
of
this
over
time
to
keep
gauging
the
community
and
how
it
evolves.
A
F
A
Okay,
so
looking
at
time
and
I
moved
up
some
of
the
stuff
that's
pending
regarding
the
platform's
definition
paper
kind
of
ish.
This
is
a
good
good,
even
though
I
moved
the
thing
about
putting
everything
in
an
issue,
but
Robert
mentioned
before
it's
great.
A
If
we
can
put
things
into
an
issue
and
then
we
can
call
them
out
in
this
when
we're
live
here,
so
the
things
that
have
come
up
scaling
where
the
scaling
fit
having
a
little
Thread
about
that,
the
how
to
iterate
on
the
graphics
right
now,
I'll
reply
in
there
like
that's,
let's
just
work
it
out,
I,
don't
even
know
where
to
start
exactly.
There's,
let's
think
about
that.
A
Translations
we
have
a
couple.
Somebody
already
translated
it
into
Korean.
A
Somebody
else
wants
to
translate
into
something
else:
I,
it
looks
like
they
need
a
little
help
like
with
the
final
PR,
where
exactly
it
needs
to
go
into.
Somebody
wants
to
help
them
with
that.
You
know:
let's
go
it's
Hugo,
it's
just
a
static
site
generator.
A
So
if
you
want
to
help
them
with
that,
otherwise
I
I
probably
will
pick
up
and
help
them
soon
and
then
one
more
item
was
that
came
up
with
Simon
Foster
Foster
in
general,
and
everything
like
the
opportunities
to
be
more
synergistic
with
everything
else
in
cncf,
some
of
the
stuff
that
we
have
in
the
glossary.
It's
basically
describing
personas
and
Scott
Rigby
actually
called
this
out
in
our
project
meeting
where
Helm
has
also
defined
some
personas.
Theirs
are
more
like
application.
Developer.
A
Personas
ours
are
more
like
platform
developer
personas,
but
there
might
be
opportunity
to
propose
and
move
those
into
the
glossary
foreign.
B
B
Yeah
it'd
be
cool
yeah,
just
to
create
an
issue
or
a
PR
into
the
wrong
place
that
we
can
then
change
it
or
whatever.
Just
because
then
it
will
be,
it
will
be
much
more
likely
that
someone
else
will
be
able
to
help
you
with
it.
B
Yeah,
the
both
the
scaling
and
the
glossary.
The
other
question
I
had
was
that
those
both
feel
like
pit
I
don't
want
to
slow
it
down
with
bigger
question
things,
but
potentially
bigger
question
things
in
the
sense
that
there's
with
the
scaling
one
there's
a
conversation
of
like
how
do
we
iterate
on
something,
that's
V1
and
brand
new?
B
What's
going
on,
like
I
think
we
have
to
call
V1
V1
for
at
least
one
kubecon
cycle
or
something
like
something
that
allows
people
to
like
have
stability,
and
then
it
gives
enough
people
time
to
come
back
and
and
have
deeper
conversations
about
stuff.
But
the
other
thing
is
that
the
my
reply
to
that
question
was
that
I
know
you
had
talked
about
wanting
to
map
the
landscape.
B
But
what
they're
really
asking
for
is:
where
does
my
project
even
fit
into
the
conversation
so
that,
when
we're
having
chats
with
users
like
we
can
talk
about
the
fact
that
we're
a
and
conversation
with
these
tools
and
we're
in
or
conversation
with
these
tools
right,
like
that's
sort
of
what
they're
looking
for
and
so
I,
don't
know,
I,
don't
know
if
that
I
don't
see
that
called
out
here.
But
that
was
something
you
mentioned
at
kubecon.
Is
that
still
something
you're,
passionate
about
getting
started
to
some
degree
or.
A
That
is
definitely
along
those
lines
like.
Can
we
synergize
our
list
of
capabilities
with
the
cncf
landscape?
It
doesn't
cause
further
confusion.
Can
we
synergize
it
with
the
way
we
organize
tags
and
the
talk
you
know
like
there's
a
couple
gaps
that
actually
our
list
might
reveal
hey,
trying
to
remember
what
they
were
thinking
as
I
was
going
and.
B
I
feel
really
bad
for
like
not
engaging
with
the
question
they're
asking
and
being
like.
Actually,
this
is
a
much
bigger
question,
you're
asking
and
then
it
being
really
frustrating
as
a
contributor
to
this
right.
So
that's
why
I
guess
a
proposal
would
be.
We
treat
the
latest
directory
as
not
a
free-for-all,
but
as
a
contributable
thing,
and
we
make
decisions
on
the
like,
with
with
reviews
and
on
the
fly
to
add
things
to
that
latest
folder,
where
we
can
have
that
conversation
of
like
where
would
this
project
fit?
B
But
we
acknowledge
that,
like
this,
the
the
actual
conversation
before
we
would
go
about
cutting
a
V2
before
there
would
be
an
update
to
the
website
before
there'd
be
an
update
to
the
printed
PDF
before
there'd.
Be
update
to
anything
where,
like
this
is
really
like,
long-standing
collateral.
We
need
to
have
those
conversations
about
how
to
align
with
the
landscape,
how
to
align
with
the
talk
how
to
like,
because
that
is
a
fundamental
shift
like
that
is
a
major
version.
Improvement
versus
adding
a
project
and
projects
change
quite
a
lot.
A
Yeah
and
so
one
thing
that
I'm
kind
of
hearing
from
you
Abby
is
like
right
now
latest
the
in
the
repo
Branch.
If
you
go
to,
if
everybody
knows
what
I'm
talking
about
under
platforms,
white
paper
and
under
operated
white
paper
and
then
the
other
one,
we
write
there's
two
folders
right
now,
there's
a
V1
and
a
latest,
and
actually
the
website
is
publishing.
A
What's
in
the
latest,
so
I
guess
what
you're
saying
Abby
is
Let's
either
don't
have
it
published
the
latest
or
create
like
a
staging
one
where
you
know
it
doesn't
go
live
on
the
website
until
we
get
a
little
bit
of
iteration.
B
If
what
you're
asking
me
is,
should
we
be
changing
the
paper
that
is
live
on
the
site
that
is
has
been
reviewed
by
20
or
30
different
people,
but
now
is
being
proposed
a
new
project,
but
I
don't
want
to
say
no,
so
I
want
to
figure
out
a
way
to
say
Yes
and
the
way
I
would
do
that
is
to
allow
it
to
get
into
latest,
which
allows
it
to
be
a
part
of
the
conversation
as
we
look
to
cut
a
V2
in
maybe
a
year
or
something
when
we've
also
made
structural
changes
to
the
way
that
we've
based
on
learning
right,
based
on
these
end
user
conversations
based
on
the
survey
based
on
all
that
stuff,
so
yeah.
B
So
that
would
be
my
process.
We
changed
the
website
to
look
at
V1.
We
we
and
we
accept.
We
we
review
and
accept
proposals
into
latest
with
a
much
lower
kind
of
fidelity,
because
it's
about
the
conversation
being
generated
and
that
then,
as
we
narrow
near
into
cutting
a
V2,
that's
when
we
start
doing
the
really
widespread
everybody.
Let's
get
a
review
in.
Let's
make
sure
this
is
in
the
state
we
want
it
to
be
in
and
that
kind.
A
B
I
was
I
was
gonna,
say
the
translations
I
was
going
to
then
be
able
to
point
translators
at
V1
and
have
them
be
content
that
the
translations
would
be
good
for
a
year
or
for,
however
long
it
is
that
the
V1
stands
and
then,
when
we
go
to
cut
a
V2,
we
talk
to
the
translators
and
we
say
we
have
now
cut
a
separate
version.
You
will
always
have
your
translated
V1.
B
A
G
But
I'm
a
little
bit
curious
about
the
thing
about
platform
capabilities,
intersectional
theater
at
the
moment,
referring
to
think
in
our
burden
document
here
probability
probably
connects
the
thing
next
to
the
general
platform
definition.
Probably
there
are
I
think
there
are
a
little
bit
nothing
if
you
a
typical
platform,
examples,
I,
think
or
specialist
examples
like
yeah
everything
will
probably
have
the
the
part
that
matches
every
platform.
G
Definition
that
matches
everything,
because
it
included
in
every
kind
of
platform,
then
I
think
then
you
have
probably
more
the
normal
developer
part
about
a
normal
application.
Laboratory,
probably
think,
probably
you
have
specialized
platform
so
I
think
that
goes
the
direction
of
thing
of
machine
learning
or
adding
OA
stuff
well,
I!
Think
where
I
think
where
you
have
special
capabilities,
but
that
are
all
always
general
for
that
kind
of
thing.
For
that
kind
of
I,
think
of
of
business
areas.
G
Probably
that
is
things
that
is,
that
would
be
a
few
adding
a
listing
of
a
few
typical
platform
kind.
That
could
be
things
that
could
be
brass
in
companies.
I
think,
as
I
think,
is
a
good
starting
point.
Turning
to
to
have
a
more
have
more
some
kind
of
a
match
between
projects
standarding
and
the
in
the
landscape
and
the
thing
and
the
matching
capabilities
on
concrete
platform
types.
A
That's
a
yeah
I
love
that
that
came
up
a
few
times
when
we
were
writing
the
paper.
Aiml
was
always
the
counter
example
to
app
Dev
and
even
on
prototypes.
It's
come
up
because
if
you
look
at
the
issue
about
prototypes,
it's
very
broad,
it's
just
a
creative
platform
and
we're
like
what
is
the
use
case,
because
the
platform
as
we've
defined
it
needs
to
Target
a
specific
use
case.
So
yeah
I
mean
I.
Think
there's!
A
G
10
minutes
in
a
meeting
I'm
I'm,
not
I,
think
I'm,
not
a
part
of
that
part
of
it,
but
I
think
but
I
an
auditing
in
our
company,
I,
think
I
know
the
people
who
think
who
think
who
have
certain
have
a
requirement
on
that
part.
I
will
think
I
will
go
and
touch
and
see
what
I
can
what
I
can
get
out.
B
And
I
think
I
also
heard
a
little
bit
of
an
advocation
for
possibly
different
or
additional
language
in
the
white
paper,
and
that's
why
that's
a
to
me
a
great
example
of
create
a
pull
request
in
with
what
with
your
change
and
why
you
think
it's
great
and
then
that's
the
type
of
thing
we
can.
We
can
definitely
see
movement
in
the
latest
directory
based
on
feedback,
and
it
will
still
go
through
the
issue.
B
A
Okay,
so
this
is
a
perfect
time
to
bring
up
the
last
item
actually
which
I
keep
bumping
down,
which
is
meeting
Styles,
so
I
I
know
we
had
a
little
thread
there
about
scheduling,
I,
try
to
keep
the
community.ca
and
cf.io
invite
accurate,
don't
really
have
access
to
the
Google
calendar.
Invite
that
easily
so
I'll
try
to
be
on
top
of
that,
and
then
another
thing
that's
come
up
in
this
discussion,
which
I
think
we
should
emphasize
is,
if
there's
an
issue,
that's
tied
to
it
in
GitHub
that
you
can.
A
You
know
anything.
You
add
to
the
agenda
can
point
to
an
an
issue
with
GitHub.
So
people
can,
you
know,
read
it
beforehand,
chime
in
asynchronously
I
think
that's
one
of
our
big
conclusions,
the
past
couple
weeks,
anything
else
on
meeting
stuff.
We
should.
We
should
bring
up
here.
The
last
couple
minutes
process.
D
G
Our
regular
typical
of
the
working
hours
it's
great
I
think
I
can
I
can
join
without
English.
I
was
disrupting
my
business
date.
A
G
No,
no
I
I
I
I'm,
a
person
who
thinks
who
takes
us
at
the
the
thing
was
only
at
the
end
of
the
thing
of
the
of
the
business
hour
bar.
G
A
A
Okay,
well
we're
we're
always
available
on
slack.
You
know,
chat
there,
GitHub
issues
and
yeah
there's
a
lot
to
to
parse
from
this
I'll
open
up
the
issues.
If
anyone
else
you
know
take,
they
can
go
thanks.
All
for
your.
For
your
help,
great
to
get
to
see
everyone.