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A
Committee
meeting
8
20:
we
welcome
a
full
contingent
of
member
councillors
and
a
welcome
to
councillor
toes
to
councillor
o'neal
and
our
deputy
mayor
councillor
gates,
and
also
a
welcome
to
the
ceo
who's
going
to
to
join
us
for
part
of
the
meeting,
and
we've
got
no
apologies
for
committee
members.
A
No
leave
of
absences
if
we
could
have
a
confirmation
of
the
minutes.
Previous
minutes,
that's
count
moved
by
councillor
taylor
seconded
by
councillor
vorster.
Thank
you
very
much.
All
those
in
favor,
that's
carried.
A
I
haven't
received
any
conflict
of
interest
declaration,
so
we
can
move
on.
We've
got
two
start
items
and
two
unstarred
items.
5.1
is
our
forward
schedule
start
and
6.1
is
our
local
area
works
programs
edition
both
start
and
then
unstart?
We've
got
surf
management
plan
and
the
springbrook
cableway
ceo
is
in
attendance
today
and
just
to
working
with
his
schedule.
We'll
just
take
the
springbrook
cableway
first
today
and
then
we'll
go
on
to
our
surf
management
plan
is.
Are
we
all?
Okay
with
that
all
right?
Great
yeah
move
the
start
item.
A
It's
councillor,
peter
young,
sending
it
by
councillor
taylor,
all
those
in
favor,
that's
carried!
So
we
will
move
on
to
item
6.3,
which
is
a
springbrook
cableway
update
report
and
I
believe
we've
got
a
presentation
so
we'll
go
to
that.
First,
with
rachel
yeah
welcome,
rachel
and
and
yeah,
and
welcome
dad
great
to
have
you
here
and
we'll
leave
it
up
to
rachel.
B
Thank
you
very
much
good
morning.
Everyone.
We
just
have
a
very
brief
presentation,
I'm
in
charge.
Here
there
we
go
in
2020,
we
completed
the
pre-feasibility
assessment
for
the
spring
cableway
to
springbrook
and
just
a
very
brief
recap
effectively.
It
found
that
there
was
economic
potential
for
economic
benefit
to
the
city.
B
So
the
next
slide
is
just
an
extract
from
the
report
showing
the
proposed
process
step.
One
being
the
traditional
owner,
consultation
in
the
first
instance
engage
with
the
state
to
understand
their
requirements
with
with
regards
consultation
and
to
develop
a
community
consultation
framework
to
bring
that
back
for
council
consideration
and
decision
as
to
the
next
step
for
a
cableway
and
after
that,
pending
on
the
decision,
continue
forth
with
either
the
consultation
or
other
activities
as
decided.
B
So
that's
really
the
presentation
at
this
time.
Thank
you.
I'm
probably
throwing
it
out
for
questions.
I'm
sure.
C
C
Could
I
just
get
a
sense
through
you,
madam
chair
to
the
director
of
the
cio
whoever's
best
place
to
answer?
Maybe
our
supporting
city
offices,
whether
the
state's
response
to
us
about,
I
suppose,
the
onus
on
us
to
establish
a
social
license
for
the
project.
C
Is
that
quite
unusual,
because
I
think
I
think
about
the
carumban
eco
park
right.
The
state
government
came
up
with
a
thought
bubble
decided
that
they
wanted
to
deliver
a
an
eco
park
at
carumban,
didn't
really
consult
with
anyone
and
they've
pushed
ahead,
including
with
the
resumption
of
land,
to
make
it
happen.
It
appears
and
that's
an
eco-tourism
asset,
so
we're
told
it
appears
as
though
there's
a
different
standard
being
applied
for
that
project
than
the
one
that
we're
being
asked
to
adhere
to.
C
D
Through
through
the
chair-
I,
I
would
say
yes,
that's
probably
given
its
all-state
government
land,
we
were
surprised
and
obviously
with
through
the
pre-feasibility
process,
have
tried
to
take
state
government
along
for
the
journey
and
for
them
to
be
a
part
of
the
decision-making
process.
But
throughout
the
pre-feasibility
process
the
state
was
always
their
view.
Was
it's
a
council
project
and
for
us
to
take
on
that
community
consultation
piece
for
for
the
initial
engagement?
D
E
Council
of
3u
chair,
I
think
it's
just
important
that
we
take
a
step
back,
so
the
nature
of
this
project
is
slightly
different
to
almost
any
other,
that
even
environmental
tourism
project,
in
that
it's
in
the
world
heritage
area.
So
the
principal
decision
maker
in
relation
to
this
matter
won't
be
the
state
government.
It
won't
be.
The
council
will
in
fact
be
the
commonwealth
government.
Epbc
approval
will
be
required
and
in
fact
there
will
be
a
requirement
for
consultation
with
the
world
heritage
committee.
E
So
this
is
slightly
different
to
a
to
any
to
an
eco-tourism
project,
that's
on
council
land
or
even
on
state
land
or
even
on
land,
that's
in
a
national
park,
but
which
isn't
in
the
world
heritage
area.
So
no
matter
what
I
don't
think
anyone
would
dispute
that
this
will
be
a
controlled
action
under
the
epbc
act
and
that
a
referral
will
be
required
and
a
comprehensive
environmentalist
and
cultural
assessment
will
be
required.
E
So
I
think
the
threshold
will
be
higher
so
and
the
principal
decision
maker
in
relation
to
this
matter
will
be
the
commonwealth
government
and
the
federal
environment
minister.
So
I
think
that
I
think
it's
just
really
important
that
we
understand
that
this
is
slightly
different,
and
that
is
in
no
way
to
seek
to
make
it
a
judgment
on
whether
it
should
go
ahead
or
not.
That's
just
the
planning
process
that
it
will
need
to
go
through
so.
C
Just
to
provide
a
bit
of
context
to
my
questions,
I
suppose
so
often
we
have
attempted
to
go
it
alone,
whether
it's
a
cruise
ship
terminal
or
whatever,
and
the
state
government
various
complexions-
I
don't
want
to
be
accused
of
you-
know,
smashing
the
red
guys,
they've
vacillated
and
they
haven't
been
reliable
partners,
so,
whether
it's
the
cruise
ship
terminal,
second
casino
and
now
the
cableway
and
I'm,
I
suppose,
I'm
looking
for
some
assurance
from
the
city
officers,
who
are
making
a
recommendation
for
us
to
continue
down
this
path,
that
it's
we're
not
going
to
end
up
wasting
our
time
and
wasting
our
resources.
C
Yet
again,
because
I
would
have,
I
would
have
hoped
and
expected
that
the
state
government
might
have
been
a
little
bit
more
supportive
in
their
language
rather
than
even
execute
an
mru
which
might
have
spelt
out
some
of
these
requirements
rather
than
effectively
kicking
it
into
touch,
which
I
I
get
the
sense
that
they're
doing
so,
perhaps
not
for
you,
mr
ceo,
because
you
weren't
here
but
through
maybe
to
the
director
to
darren.
Do
we
have
us?
Do
you
have
a
personal
sense
that
it's
different?
F
That's
a
difficult
question
right
now,
so
look
I
think
what
they
have
set
out
for
us.
We
have
been
engaged
in
a
dialogue
and
the
correspondence
shows
the
the
depth
of
that
dialogue.
So
there
has
been
good
will
from
the
part
of
the
state
offices
we've
been
dealing
with
to
enter
into
a
process.
F
F
So
the
process
which
is
before
you
all
today
is
a
process
which
takes
us
along
step
by
step.
If
it
was
a
holistically
negative
response
from
the
state
they
probably
wouldn't
have
outlined.
Well,
here's
a
process
that
you
can
follow,
so
I'm
positive
that
there
is
at
least
a
process
before
us
that
the
state
have
advised
here's
what
you
will
need
to
do.
C
In
order
sorry,
a
man
of
jet
through
the
director
then
a
process
that
we
would
things
that
we
would
need
to
do
in
order
for
them
to
enter
into
an
mou
or
to
look
at
entering
into
an
mou.
So
I'm
just
trying
to
understand
whether,
if
we
check
these
things
off,
have
they
committed
then
to
enter
into
the
mou,
or
will
they
take
a
a
fresh
look
at
it?
After
we've
gone
to
the
expense
of
doing
this
homework.
F
Through
you,
madam
chair
they've
said
that
the
mou
needs
to
be
entered
into
with
the
proponent,
so
these
are
steps
that
they
need
to
be
satisfied
when
they
get
a
proponent
before
them
that
there's
been
sufficient
rigor
applied
from
from
their
perspective
before
they
then
enter
into
that
particular
process.
D
Thank
you
through
the
chair.
Just
to
answer
your
question.
I
guess
the
state
government
we're
very
supportive
of
the
pre-feasibility
process.
The
all
the
department,
environment
and
science
department,
tourism
and
state
development
did
come
along
to
all
the
workshops
they
participated
from
an
officer
level.
It
was
a
very,
very
collaborative
process.
I
can
say
that
they
they
gave
resources,
definitely
to
that
whole
process
in
terms
of
going
forward
and
even
in
the
pre-feasibility
process.
D
They
were
very
clear
about
the
city
taking
on
that
next
step
in
terms
of
taking
this
project
to
the
traditional
owners
and
doing
that
community
consultation
piece
right.
C
C
B
Through
the
chair,
the
first
step
is
to
identify
the
traditional
owners
that
exist
on
mapping
on
the
commonwealth
mapping.
So
certainly
that's
the
first
port
of
call,
and
there
are
two
bodies
that
pertain
to
this
area,
so
that
was
where
that
would
be
where
we
would
have
to
start
as
a
in
the
exercise
right.
D
So
through
the
chair,
I
guess
through
the
mou
we
tried
to
tease
that
out
of
the
state
government,
that's
success
and
obviously
we
haven't
been
able
to
to
get
to
that.
But
what
they
have
said
is
that
they
would
continue
to
provide
resources
and
information
to
us
to
help
guide
us
with
these.
These
questions
you're
asking
councillor.
G
Thanks
chair
through
you
a
couple
of
questions,
I
got
a
bit
confused
with
some
of
these
correspondence
and
the
timing
and
dates
and
so
forth
and
council's
deliberations,
but
I
think
what
occurred
was
in
may
last
year
we
made
a
decision
that
the
process
should
be
this
and
and
the
first
step
was
the
mou
with
the
state
and
beyond
that,
nothing
until
the
mou
was
entered
into.
G
G
So
I
echo
councillor
voices
concerns
that
the
actual
requirements
of
the
consultation
are
not
really
clear
and
we
may
be
falling
in
into
a
bit
of
a
hole
there,
not
that
I
necessarily
want
this
project
to
proceed,
but
that's
a
danger
when
we're
dealing
with
public
money
and
related
to
that.
I
see
there's
a
map
of
the
proposed
area
and
I
wonder
how
that's
been
defined
for
the
purposes
of
the
consultation
with
traditional
owners,
please.
If
that
could
be.
B
G
B
The
red
is
the
area
of
study
for
the
pre-feasibility
assessment,
and
the
translucent
white
area
is
the
area
that
was
identified
during
the
pre-feasibility
work
as
being
the
area
of
least
impact
and
most
opportunity
for
a
cableway
to
pass
through,
so
that
narrowed
the
area
of
interest
down
to
create
a
focus
area
for
all
consultation
and
further
work
in
this
space.
If
it's
to
proceed.
G
So
if
I
might
a
further
question,
if
we
adopt
your
recommendation
today,
does
that
preclude
that
focus
area
for
community
and
traditional
owner
consultation
to
be
expanded
or
changed
anyway.
Let's
say
one
of
the
inputs
from
the
community
or
the
traditional
owners
is
that
the
area
be
expanded,
that
there
are
particular
issues
of
great
concern
that
they
believe
need
to
be
considered
in
the
con
context
of
this
overall
evaluation.
Are
we?
Is
there
a
suitable
flexibility
to
enable
the
study
area?
Shall
we
say
to
be
expanded.
G
H
Yeah,
so
the
translucent
area
indicated
on
this
map
includes
members
of
the
community
and
traditional
owners
that
are
located
exclusively
in
division.
Nine,
and
I
talk
to
them
really
regularly.
I'm
I'm
a
bit
conscious
that
every
single
person
I
talk
to
seems
to
seek
more
information
from
me
in
relation
to
on
page
111.
It
talks
about
our
previous
resolution
and
talks
about
a
document
called
the
strategic
overview
for
management
for
the
gondwana
rainforest
world
heritage
area,
and
they
asked
me
about
that.
H
H
Obviously
we
assessed
it
standard
20
years
ago.
How
do
we
consult
the
community?
What
is
the
substance
of
that
community
consultation
with
the
information?
That's
20
years
old?
How
do
we
do
that
or
how
do
we
propose
to
do.
E
That
so,
I
think,
through
your
chair,
the
document
you're
referring
to
is
a
state
government
document
well
produced
by
the
federal
government
federal.
E
Documents,
so
they
have
what
in
this
world
we
have
what's
called
the
the
state
party.
So
the
state
party
in
this
case
is
the
australia,
the
commonwealth
government
and
they
write
management
plans.
This
is
an
older
management
plan,
but
it's
still
a
current
management
plan.
It's
it's
not
really
our
place
to
comment
on
on
the
state
and
the
of
the
management
plan,
but
we
would
use
the
existing
management
plan
to
consult.
That's
that's
the
way
it
works
and
the
way
it
works
across
all
all
jurisdictions.
E
H
So
could
you
give
us
more
information
about
what
that
community?
I
appreciate
the
traditional
owner
consultation
might
be
in
in
relation
to
indigenous
interests,
but
in
this
area
there
are
a
number
of.
H
First,
nations
linked
organizations
that
undertake
environmental
activity
and
action,
and
so
my
question
is:
could
you
give
me
some
examples
of
what
we
would
be
consulting
the
community
about?
What
does
that
actually
look
like
what
questions
are
we
asking?
What's
the
scope
of
that
consultation?
What
are
we
asking
them
about
this
project.
E
So
I'll
let
the
officers
answer
that,
but
I'll
just
make
one
observation,
which
is
a
common
misconception,
which
is
that
first
nation
or
aboriginal
heritage,
as
it's
called
in
the
jurisdiction
I
came
from,
is
about
more
than
just
it's
about
more
than
just
relics
or
it's
about
more
than
just
culture.
E
For
from
it's
been
my
experience,
dealing
with
first
nation
communities
for
the
past
25
years
that
environment
and
heritage
are
the
same
thing
so
when
you're
talking
to
an
aboriginal
as
we
would
call
it
in
tasmania
or
first
nations,
community
environment,
the
full
environment,
the
full
landscape
is
what
you
consult
on.
You
don't
consult
on
just
the
first
nations
heritage
component
so,
and
that
is
that
would
be
my
expectation
and
the
expectation
of
the
city.
I'm
with
you
on
that
great
yeah.
Awesome,
so
probably
don't
know
the
answer.
B
Through
the
gym,
thank
you
practical
examples
might
have
to
come
back
to
you
with
that
one,
but
this
the
second
step
was
to
actually
work
with
state
to
identify
sort
of
their
interest
in
that
respect
up
here
and
also
the
traditional
owners
to
understand.
You
know
the
key
parameters
for
the
consultation
and
that's
what
we
would
bring
back
to
the
council
with
the
consultation
proposal.
E
So
so,
to
answer
your
question
in
very
simple
terms:
what
impact
would
a
cableway
have
on
the
on
the
landscape
from
a
first
nations
point
of
view
in
all
aspects
is
the
question
and
that's
what
the
consultation
will
be
about.
It
will
not
be
limited
in
any
way
other
than
talking
to
first
nation
communities,
about
their
landscape
and
by
landscape
I
mean
the
full
the
heritage,
the
natural
and
the
cultural
heritage
aren't
getting
an
understanding
about
how
this
will
impact.
E
If
it
will
impact
a
lot
of
ways,
we
might
be
able
to
mitigate
impact
if,
if
the
project
was
to
go
ahead,
they're
the
kind
of
questions
that
will
be
asked,
but
it
is
not
limited
in
any
way
and
going
to
councillor
young's
point:
it's
not
determined
by
a
grid
marking
on
a
map
either
it's
for.
First
nation
communities,
it'll
be
about
the
complete
landscape
and
if
it,
if
it's
three
or
four
meters
or
three
or
four
kilometers
past
a
line
that
doesn't
matter,
it's
really
an
open
book
question
about.
E
H
So
the
last
part
of
my
question,
because
I'm
allowed
three
is,
it
seems,
like
there's
lots
of
connection
or
synergy
between
the
management
plan.
That
is
the
federal
state
management
plan.
That's
now,
20
years
old,
there
are
practical
recommendations
in
that
management
plan
that
seem
almost
identical
to
the
type
of.
H
How
come
we
haven't
had
a
recommendation?
What's
been,
the
reason
why
we
haven't
recommended
to
do
both
the
environmental
study
and
the
traditional
owner
consultation
concurrently,
what
what's
the
biggest
inhibitor
of
us
doing?
Those
because
it
seems
like
there's
based
on
your
answers,
they
seem
pretty
connected.
How
come
we
haven't
decided
to
do
them
together.
D
So
through
the
chair,
the
answer
to
that
is
we're
following
the
the
advice
that
came
back
through
the
state
government
written
to
us
to
undertake
extensive
consultation
with
the
traditional
owners
and
the
community
and
we're
breaking
that
up
to
do
the
traditional
owners.
First,
while
we
prepare
the
consultation
strategy.
H
J
E
Right
so
there
are
different
models.
I
in
most
cases
it's
the
proponent,
but
in
other
cases
that
I
have
been
involved
in
councils
or
state
governments
have
done.
They
have
done
the
work
on
the
environmental
assessment
and
then
gone
to
market
with
the
assessment
complete.
But
my
understanding
is
that
the
current
thinking
in
this
case
is
that
it
would
be
the
proponent
who
did
that
work.
J
Or
a
proponent,
a
proponent
and
the
city
doesn't
intend
to
be
the
proponent,
not
at
this
stage
yeah.
So
I
suppose
my
challenge
is
that
we
sought
the
mou
in
part
to
de-risk
that,
and
so,
whilst
the
state
may
have
provided
us
with
a
pathway,
the
pathway
is
still
not
easily
achieved,
because
if
we
actually
need
to
get
to
the
federal
government
to
get
a
set
of
approvals,
we
almost
need
to
loop
back
prior
to
that
to
get
the
state
on
board
so
yeah.
And
I
I
just
think
that
we've
reached
a
problematic
stage.
E
So
through
in
response
to
that,
I
would
say
that
projects
of
this
nature
are
inherited
inherently
complex,
so
you
will
need
local
government
approval.
You'll
need
state
environmental
approval.
You'll
need,
in
this
case,
approval
under
the
relevant
act
that
that
manages
national
parks
and
then,
over
and
above
that,
as
I've
indicated
you'll
most
likely
almost
certainly
need
epbc
or
federal
government
approval.
E
That's
not
uncommon
projects
of
this
nature,
and
there
have
been
two
that
I'm
aware
of
in
australia
recently,
which
would
have
gone
through
that
process.
Around
cableways
there's
always
a
chicken
and
egg
in
this
counsellor,
about
which
one
do
you
go
for?
First,
usually,
usually
speaking
in
most
cases
that
I've
been
involved
in,
you
start
at
the
top
and
work
your
way
back.
So
that
is
to
say
you
get
the
commonwealth
approval,
the
state
approval
and
then
the
local
government
approval.
But
that's
not
there's
no
golden
rule
in
that.
E
Sometimes
you
get
state
approval
first
and
then
you
go
and
get
commonwealth
approval,
but
so
I
don't
want
to
give
councillors
the
impression
that
this
is
in
any
way
unique
in
the
sense
that
across
the
country,
this
is
how
approvals
get
done
of
this
nature,
but
they
are
complex
and
there's
no
rule
book
for
the
order
in
which
it
happens.
I
Thank
you
and-
and
I
think
the
ceos
kind
of
answered
my
question.
My
question
was:
why
has
the
focus
of
our
mou
and
the
consultation
process
started
with
the
state
government?
If
it
really
is
the
federal
government
that
has
jurisdiction
because
of
the
world
heritage
area?
I
wonder
why
we're
not
heading
towards
an
mou
with
the
federal
government
to
get
that
established
first
right.
E
So
it
is
important
to
recognize
that
the
state
government
are
the
landowners,
so
landowner
consent
is
critical
in
any
of
this.
Now
there
are
ways
you
could
get
approval
differently,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
the
project
doesn't
go
ahead
without
landowner
consent
and
usually
in
99
of
the
projects
I've
seen
or
been
involved
in
you.
You
start
with
the
land
owner
who,
in
this
case,
is
the
state
government.
E
Now
there
may
be
some
land
tenure
issues,
so
there
might
be
a
bit
of
council
land,
but
ultimately
it
would
be
very
counterproductive
to
do
very
much
work
at
all
without
landowner
consent,
as
we
know
from
the
local
government
side
of
things.
So
that's
that's
why
I
think
that
the
thinking
has
been
that
you
would
work
with
the
with
the
state
government.
E
I
have
seen,
and
I've
been
involved
in
a
project
where
local
government
and
state
government
came
together
to
jointly
be
the
proponent
council
alan
jones,
and
they
did
the
the
approval
work
on
on
a
project
which
required
federal
approval,
but
usually
speaking
in
projects
of
this
nature,
landowner
is
the
first
point
of
consultation.
It
would
be
a
bit
odd
councillor
if,
if
you
were
to
go
off
and
get
approvals-
and
you
didn't
have
the
landowner
content,
so
I
think
that's
the
answer.
K
E
So
I
think
a
couple
of
points,
so
the
first
one
is
the
work
that
is
proposed
would
form
part
of
the
border
assessment
that
is
done
for
both
an
epbc
referral
and
the
relevant
state
approvals
and
potentially
the
local
government
approvals
as
well.
So
it's
not
sunk
work,
it's
work.
That
has
to
be
done.
I
think
I
and
I'll.
Let
darren
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
the
idea
is
that
the
state
government
have
put
this
additional
step
in
so
they've.
E
K
Okay,
so,
given
that
with
looking
at
the
recommendation
in
3a,
it
says
that
we're
we're
going
to
the
queensland
government
will
identify
interests
and
requirements
and
desired
outcomes
of
the
consultation.
K
But
one
thing
I
think
would
provide
me
some
comfort
in
there
is
if
we
also
get
their
agreement
before
we
start
that
consultation
tick
off.
Yes,
we
like
your
approach,
we're
happy
with
it,
because
at
the
moment
it
sounds
like
you're.
One
of
our
stakeholders
tell
us
what
you
think
should
be
in
it,
but
we're
not
getting
their
agreement
actually
on
that
consultation
process,.
E
Same
thing,
that's
highly
unusual
to
have
I'll
go
the
reverse
way.
Just
based
on
my
experience.
It's
highly
unusual
to
have
the
federal
government
enter
into
a
mou
or
an
agreement
that
would
in
any
way
seek
to
bind
them
about
their
epbc
referral
so
generally
how
it
works
and
recognizing
there's
a
new
government.
They
might
be
willing
to
do
it,
but,
based
on
my
experience,
the
commonwealth,
don't
generally
enter
into
agreements
to
say.
Oh
look.
E
We
think
this
is
a
good
idea
because
they
will
say:
we've
got
an
epbc
approval
process
that
we
need
to
run.
So,
put
your
put
your
application
in
and
we'll
assess
it
is.
There
is
their
approach
different
to
the
state
government
in
this
case,
because
the
state
government
are
the
landowner.
So
there
is
a
lot
of
sense
in
saying
to
the
state
government.
Do
you
agree
with
this
in
principle
because
they're
the
landowner
they're,
not
simply
the
statutory
approvers
from
an
environmental
or
a
cultural
point
of
view?
E
What
I
would
say,
though,
is
that,
what's
clear,
is
that
that
the
state
government
have
indicated
to
us
and,
as
the
director
said,
we're
disappointed
about
the
fact,
but
they
have
said
to
us
they're
not
willing
to
go
there
unless
we
do
the
the
first
nations
consultation
first,
which
is
why
we've
come
to
community
and
community
yeah.
But.
K
So
my
question
is
with
that
I
mean:
we've
asked
them
effectively
to
be
someone
who
a
group
that
provides
an
input
into
what
our
consultation
looks
like,
but
it
doesn't
go
as
far
as
to
say:
okay,
here's
our
consultation
station
consultation
strategy.
Are
you
happy
to
sign
off
on
that?
So
if
we
conduct
by
this
process,
you're
going
to
be
happy
with
the
out,
you
know
whatever
the
outcome
is.
K
Are
you
going
to
be
happy
with
the
process
because
it
doesn't
say
that
in
there-
and
my
concern
is
similar
to
others-
is
that
if
we
do
that
work
and
then
that
comes
back
and
then
the
the
process
is
questioned
not
like
what
the
outcome
is
and
and
same?
I
appreciate
the
federal
government
not
going
to
say
oh
yeah,
we'll
give
you
inputs
at
the
beginning,
but
certainly
there
must
be
some
kind
of
guidelines.
We
can
look
at
now
when
you're
allocating
that
money
to
do
the
work
so.
E
I'll
answer
that
and
then
I'll,
let
darren
have
a
go
so
through
your
chair.
So
on
the
the
methodology
and
the
approach
that
is
used,
there
are
very
detailed-
and
I
know
them
well
complex
guidelines
for
how
to
do
this
work
for
the
purpose
of
an
epbc
referral.
E
I
think
it's
about
a
60
page
document,
so
it
would
be
our
expectation
that
we
would
use
that
standard,
because
we
know
that
we're
going
to
need
it's
going
to
be
needed
down
the
track,
and
so
and
I
I
would
be
very
surprised
if
we
used
that
standard
if
it
wasn't
a
standard
that
would
be
acceptable
to
the
state
government,
because
in
effect
it's
the
level
above
of
nation
of
environmental
significance.
National
significance
is
the
test.
So
so
that's
the
process
that
we
would
use.
H
E
Both
so
I'm
not
speaking
specifically
about
this
project,
but
in
general
terms,
I've
seen
both
normally
it's
the
proponent.
In
most
cases,
it's
the
proponent,
but
where
a
level
of
government
wants
to
de-risk
the
project
in
such
a
way
that
that
it
can
proceed,
and
I
have
seen
cases
where
the
state,
the
state
party,
which
means
the
commonwealth
government
or
a
state
government
or
even
local
government,
have
done
the
work,
got
the
assessment
and
then
gone
to
market
with
the
assessment.
That
is
not
the
model
that
is
proposed
at
this
stage.
E
H
E
Management,
that's
the
responsibility
of
the
parks
service,
queensland
park
service.
It's
not
an
and
the
state
party.
It
actually
is
the
state
party,
but
the
queensland
government
would
do
it
on
their
behalf.
That's
usually
how
it
works,
and
so-
and
it
is
not
a
small
undertaking
to
do
a
to
do
a
management
plan
of
of
this
significant
area
of
this
significance.
I
would
make
the
observation,
though,
that
don't
be
don't
be
lowered
into
the
sen.
So
thinking
that,
because
a
plan
is
relatively
old,
it's
not
accurate.
E
I
mean,
if
you
were
speaking
to
first
nation
people,
they'd
say
that
they've
been
there
for
40
000
years,
so
I
mean
this,
so
the
plan
can
be.
The
plans
can
be
old
and
accurate
that,
like
the
heritage
in
the
area,
hasn't
hasn't
changed,
so
the
management
techniques
might
have
changed
since
then,
but
it's
not
uncommon.
E
In
my
experience
and
as
a
former
director
of
parks,
state
director
of
parks
to
have
plans
that
have
age
ages
of
this
level
or
more,
they
might
not
be
written
as
contemporary
in
a
in
a
contemporary
way,
but
the
management
controls
and,
most
importantly,
the
heritage-
and
I
mean
both
cultural
and
natural
heritage.
Don't
don't
change
so
you
know
it
is
what
it
is
plus.
I
would
again
make
the
observation
that
it's
not
our
plan.
It's
the
state
party's
planning
consultation
with
the
state
government
yeah.
H
H
And
is
there
any
more
recent
report
that
assesses
either
the
efficacy
or
the
satisfaction
or
the
the
environment
department's
assessment
of
whether
that
management
plan
is
being
executed
as
it
was
intended
when
it
was
established.
D
E
It
is
a
comprehensive
impact
assessment
both
of
well
of
environmental,
cultural
built
heritage
and
the
economic
benefits
and
or
otherwise
of
of
a
project
of
that
nature.
It
is
a
significant
undertaking
and,
yes,
it
will
be
based
off
the
management
plan.
That's
the
that's
the
cornerstone
for
how
that
work
gets
done,
but
there,
but
it
is
a.
It
is
a
big
undertaking
and
it
would
be
very
comprehensive
before
the
commonwealth
government
or
the
the
federal
environment
minister
would
be
willing
to
make
a
decision
under
the
apbc
act.
J
Thank
you
through
the
chair.
I
think
you
mentioned
that
there
were
potentially
two
first
nation
claimants
for
the
area
as
as
has
been
resolved
at
any
point
in
time
in
regards
to
who
may
have
priority
so.
D
When
we're
talking
native
title,
there's
one
claimant
group
at
the
moment,
yeah,
which
is
five
rivers
yep
for
cultural
heritage,
we
believe
there's
two
parties
going
on
the
mapping
and
that's
obviously
five
rivers
and
jabri,
who
were
part
of
the
original
claimant
group.
D
D
Through
the
chair,
they've
obviously
been
kept
up
to
date
on
this
process
and
are
awaiting
us
to
make
a
decision
on
whether
we
formally
engage
with
them.
Because
we
went
on
hold
based
on
the
previous
council
resolution
to
go
and
do
the
mou.
G
On
that,
if
it's
through
you
did
you
mention
gibberish.
G
Thank
you,
so
the
names
more
typically
or
known
to
us,
I
suppose,
is
the
yugam
bay
and
the
cumber
mary.
Are
they
part
of
five
rivers
or
so.
D
The
way
I
understand
this
through
the
chair
is
that
the
eugen
bear
language
region,
jabri
represents
them
in
terms
of
cultural
heritage.
Thank
you.
H
Which
is
not
debris,
it's
the
other
one.
It's
five
rivers,
yeah
five
rivers,
the
directors
of
that
entity
are
connected
to
the
yukon,
bear
museum
and
in
mainly-
and
I
actually
don't
know
the
directors
of
debris,
I
don't
know
who
they
are,
but
I
suspect
they
may
be
connected
to
other
people
that
perhaps
aren't
connected
to
the
the
five
rivers
group.
That's
I'm
speculating,
but
that's
so.
C
Madam
chad
yeah
and
that's
why
I
just
asked
about
catchment
effectively
because
the
human
bear
language
group
from
what
I
understand,
extends
all
the
way
to
beau
desert
right.
So
I
think,
there's
an
inherent
tension
in
the
city
as
a
local
government
area
pursuing
a
project
for
our
benefit
coming
against
clashing
with,
I
suppose,
the
let's
call
it.
C
The
cultural
electorate
and
the
the
cultural
boundaries
and
the
political
boundaries
don't
necessarily
align
and
my
interest
in
was
to
what
extent
would
traditional
owners
in
beaudesert,
for
example,
who
felt
the
connection
to
land
within
our
local
government
area
impact
our
thinking
and
decisions
locally.
So
I
don't
need
a
response
to
it,
but
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
that
that
was
one
of
my
concerns
because
we've
got
the
kumberi
people,
salt,
water,
people
more.
C
J
E
It's
it's
also.
A
the
discussion
we've
just
had
through
you
chair
is
a
good
descriptor
for
why
we
need
to
do
the
work
counsellor
to
find
out
who
are
the
groups
who
are
affected
and
what
impact
and
what
they've
and
listen
to
their
voices?
No
matter
where
they're
from
and.
C
Madam
chair,
through
you
to
the
cio
I
mean
I
hope
we
take
a
city
view
that
said,
do
you
imagine
some
of
the
learnings
out
of
this
process
may
underpin
and
satisfy
some
of
our
the
work
we've
identified
that
we
need
to
do
in
our
corporate
plan.
C
L
L
I'm
actually
really
interested
in
seeing
the
body
of
work
to
know
what
their
views
actually
are
and
the
reason
I
say
that
is
because
I
think
the
the
a
more
contemporary
approach
to
their
first
nations
input
has
already
been
recognized
as
being
required
by
the
state
government,
because
they've
said
that
there
had
previously
been
two
management
committees,
a
community
committee
and
a
technical
committee
effectively,
and
that
in
actual
fact,
they're
looking
to
establish
a
greater
input
from
the
local
indigenous
people.
L
I
had
previously
had
two
advisory
committees:
the
department
identified
the
need
to
enhance
the
participation
of
first
nations,
people
in
the
government,
governance
and
management
of
the
world
heritage
property.
Accordingly,
an
extensive
program
of
consultation
in
both
queensland
and
new
south
wales,
with
first
nations
people
with
rights
and
interests
in
the
properties
underway
to
inform
new,
culturally
appropriate
advisory
committees.
L
G
Thank
you
chair
through
you
to
the
ceo.
The
city
did
at
one
stage
in
the
past,
have
a
dedicated
officer
responsible
for
engagement
with
first
nations
people.
Is
that
still
the
case?
H
So
my
last
question
actually
relates
to
economic
feasibility.
It
talks
about
in
the
report
that
there's
a
35
million
or
thereabouts
on
page
112
revenue
generation
for
this
I'm
trying
to
draw
on
the
ceo's
experience
with
these
matters
before
to
to
what
extent
does
did
the
proponent
of
a
cableway
execute
obligations
under
a
world
heritage
management
plan
in
delivering?
H
E
They
are
required
to
operate
in
a
manner
consistent
with
the
management
plan
and
with
the
and
with
the
controls
that
are
set
out
in
the
contract,
in
terms
of
who
does
what
I've
seen
the
whole
gamut
counsellor
I've
seen
and
I'm
not
talking
about
cableways,
specifically
I've
seen
fully
run
proponents
who've
come
in
and
said
we
want
to
do
x,
y
and
z,
they've
done
all
of
the
eis.
They
then
operate
it
and
they
operate
on
a
lease
or
a
licence.
Depending
on
on
the
nature
of
the
activity.
E
E
So
if
it's
a
guided,
walk
or
if
it's
a
ferry
service
in
relation
to
cableway,
I'd,
probably
defer
to
darren
who
will
know
that
the
obvious
one
being
to
our
north
in
cairns,
we
understand
it's
a
ppp
as
well,
where
there's
some
state
government
ownership
and
some
private,
but
it's
run
by
a
private
operator.
That's
correct!
Isn't
it
in
cairns,
durham.
D
Through
the
chair,
that
is
correct,
it's
obviously
a
private
consortium,
but
they
do
obviously
have
partnerships
with
state
government
for
that
particular
project,
and
it's
it's
in
our
feasibility
as
a
as
a
case
study
as
well.
E
Just
at
one
other
point
which
may
go
to
your
question
or
may
not
through
you
chair,
and
that
is,
generally
speaking,
the
larger
the
infrastructure
spend
required
and
the
more
expensive
the
ongoing
costs
are,
the
more
the
more
the
project
needs
to
be
de-risked
in
order
for
it
to
happen.
Does
that
make
sense?
E
So
so,
if
you're,
if
you're
you
know
it
is,
it
is
a
big
undertaking
for
a
prior
for
any
private
sector,
individual
or
organization,
to
put
in
to
go
down
the
path
of
a
very
complicated
and
expensive
eis
for
for
infrastructure
in
the
world
heritage
area
with
knowing
that
you've
got
to
get
those
three
levels
of
approval
done.
So
that's
why
you
see
you
tend
to
see
market
intervention
by
state,
federal
or
local
government
to
seek
to
de-risk
the
projects
in
some
way.
H
A
Thanks
councillor
toza,
we'll
close
the
questions
there,
so
we've
got
a
recommendation
in
front
of
us
councillors
and
we'll
take
that
to
the
vote
so
also
moved
by
council
of
austral
seconded
by
councillor
caldwell,
all
those
in
favor
and
those
against
councillor
did
you
want
your
votes,
yeah.
C
Madame
shout
out
no
we've
carried,
I
know
it's
been
carrick,
but
just
because
this
is
so
contentious,
would
you
grant
me
just
to
make
one
remark,
so
people
can
understand
why
it
is
or
supportive
of
moving
this
recommendation.
C
A
Thanks
councillor,
thank
you
councillors,
the
thank
you
ceo,
for
attending
and
and
and
your
input
your
learned
input
we'll
go
to
item
6.2,
which
is
our
surf
management
plan
five
year
review
and
yeah
and
we've
got
thank.
F
F
You,
madam
chair,
oh
losing
my
voice.
We've
got
shannon
hunt
here
just
to
quickly
take
you
through
this
councillors.
You
may
recall
that
we
regularly
come
back
with
a
review
of
the
surf
management
plan.
It's
that
time
again
for
the
five
year
review
and
the
focus
on
this
particular
review
has
been
around
surf
etiquette,
a
very
timely
topic
at
the
moment.
M
Obviously
the
surf
management
plan
was
resolved
in
2015
as
an
action
from
the
ocean
beaches
strategy
and
contains
three
brought
out
objectives
around
visitors
and
resident
surfers
understanding,
surf
etiquette
and
amenity
on
gold
coast
beaches
that
the
management
of
surf
amenity
on
coast
beaches
is
best
practice
and
that
there's
joint
stewardship
in
the
management
of
surf
amenity.
M
The
report
today
presents
the
the
content
of
the
draft
five
year
review
of
the
surf
management
plan
proposed
to
undertake
stakeholder
engagement
through
the
city's
world
surf
reserve
local
stewardship
committee,
and
that,
following
the
engagement
process,
a
final
report
is
brought
back
for
council's
consideration.
M
Broadly,
the
review
outcomes
just
show
that
projects
that
the
city's
undertaken
have
contributed
to
an
enhancement
in
surf
amenity
and
gold
coast
beaches
over
the
over
the
review
period
and
some
of
the
significant
con
achievements.
More
recently,
as
elton
mentioned,
relate
to
surf
etiquette
animations,
which
is
a
real
focus
over
the
next
five
year
period.
I
I
Always
wear
a
leg:
rope
stray
surfboards
can
harm
others.
Never
let
go
of
your
board,
especially
if
there
are
other
surfers
behind
you
avoid
paddling
directly
behind
another
surfer.
Instead
choose
a
clear
passage
if
you're
in
another
surface
park,
show
direction
and
paddle
toward
the
white
water,
be
a
good
surfer,
share
waves,
smiles
and
good
vibes.
C
Team,
so
those
videos
were
great
because
they
had
a
real
sense
of
place.
I
mean
they
were
like
you
could
recognize
all
the
headlands
and
they
were
very
connected
to
the
gold
coast.
Can
I
just
ask
who
led
that
creative
brief,
because
I
I'd
like
to
flick
him
an
email
and
congratulate
them,
because
it's
it
doesn't
feel
generic.
C
I
think
I
think
that's,
I
think,
that's
excellent.
I
think
the
risk
with
these
information
campaigns
is
like
you
can
have
an
important
message,
but
it's
told
so
generically
it
doesn't
connect
and
I'm
actually
looking
for
the
next
video,
because
I
want
to
see
more
local
icons
so
well.
Well
done
for
that.
B
A
Well
from
our
world
surf
reserve
meetings
and
that
we
have
that
was
a
lot
of
the
input
that
came
back
through
was
that
they
needed
it
to
be
relevant
to,
and
especially
with
the
surf
etiquette
style
of
things
that
they
wanted
it
to
be
relevant
to
this
world
surf
reserve
park
number
two,
so
obviously,
with
the
local
stewardship
than
that.
B
That's
that
was
exactly
my
point
councillor
because
the
stewardship
committee
they
go
through
so
fatigue
comes
up
every
meeting
and
we
have
the
input
of
the
local
surface
and
we
have
the
input
of
the
city
assets,
guys
the
coastal
management
guys-
and
I
think
it's
it's
a
worthwhile
committee.
We
always
get
something
out
of
it
and
you
know
I
just
think
this
is.
This
has
been
a
fantastic
campaign
on.
I
can't
wait
to
see
it
all
over
the
all
over
the
online
stuff.
C
Madam
chair,
we
didn't
get
to
see
all
the
videos,
but
maybe
your
best
place
to
answer
this
question.
A
lot
of
the
messaging
was
around
the
potential
troublemaker
right
to
the
person
snaking
or
the
person
dropping
in
and
all
the
rest.
I
just
wonder
whether
there
was
any
messaging
around
anger
management.
C
You
know
that
because
like
for
example,
allegedly,
if
you
read
the
gold
coast
bulletin,
some
bloke
bashed
a
bodybuilder,
it's
not
a
bodybuilder
bodyboarder
today,
who
was
potentially
a
novice,
so
have
we
put
in
any
messaging
around
hey
when
things
do
go
wrong?
Don't
bash
someone
like
because
that
that's
actually
the
outworking
of
the
etiquette
problem?
F
We
haven't
specifically
addressed
that,
so
I
guess
it's
implicit
in
in
the
different
areas
that
we've
looked
at,
but
not
called
it
out,
as
you
know,
an
item
on
its
own,
so
it's
I
guess
it's
something
we
could
do.
This
is
really
the
first
phase
to
test
on
how
this
goes
yep.
So
it's
something
we
could
look
at.
C
C
I
haven't
been
out
since,
but
I
actually
feel
discouraged
from
actually
getting
back
in
the
water
because
of
the
congestion
and
the
number
of
people
who
are
more
experienced
being
out
there,
and
I
just
hope,
as
we
develop
this
campaign,
we
start
talking
about
the
more
experienced
surfers
who
may
feel
a
connection
to
a
break
just
being
a
bit
more
patient
with
people
starting
out
in
in
the
surf
and
being
a
little
bit
more
forgiving.
Sorry.
I
A
Neil
and
myself
were
both
saying
that's
again,
something
that
comes
up
at
the
meeting
all
the
time
as
into
how
can
the
season
surface
better,
deliver
a
message
to
those
novice
surfers
and,
and
perhaps,
as
councillor
gates
said,
identifying
the
fact
that,
if
you're
a
novice
surfer,
you
would
potentially
not
use
your
first
opportunity
in
the
surface
to
be
snapper
or
to
be
burly
point
or
things
like
that
as
to
identify
some
areas
that
are
probably
more
conducive
to
beginner
service
surfers
getting
there.
You
know.
F
This
is
exactly
what
shannon's
team
are
working
through
at
the
moment:
they're
looking
at
the
23,
different
beach
components
and
looking
at
what
uses
our
best
in
in
each
area,
which
will
tease
out
exactly
that,
where
would
more
experienced
surfers,
be
compared
to
less
experienced
surface
and
then
how
do
we
support
that
with
signage
and
messaging?
Well,.
I
A
And
the
big
boys-
and
I
think,
a
lot
of
our
riding
crews
are
doing
that.
The
empty
board
riders
and
the
cambered
board
writers
and
burleigh
board
writers
they're
all
starting
to
identify
that
potentially,
if
you're,
a
novice,
surfer
or
or
joining
part
of
those
groups
will
take
you
through
some
sort
of
education
where
it's
better
to
serve
well.
I
C
A
Tested
these
with
the
world's
league
animated
videos-
and
they
were
very
well
received,
so
it's
a
sort
of
thing
that
a
lot
of
those
novel
services
are
going
to
be
able
to
relate
to
as
well
so.
B
Just
one
more
point,
too:
the
the
learn
to
surf
schools
have
a
have
a
role
to
play
in
this,
and
I'm
not
sure
I
mean
I
know
they
don't
they
do
go
through
surf
etiquette,
but
I
don't
think
I
don't.
I
think
they
could
do
more
with
the
lunar
surfers
and
they
they
will
pick
the
beaches
that
landed
with
smaller
waves
and
it's
usually
crumbling
and
green
mount
where
our
learn
to
surf
schools
are
where
it's
safer
for
the
learn
to
surf
kids,
but
not
always
kids.
A
A
Councillors
will
close
the
meeting
at
204
pm
and
if
we
could
just
get
you
to
hold
back
and
we'll
just
have
a
chat
on.