►
Description
A presentation at the Hyperledger Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group on November 30, 2021 featuring Walid Al Saqqaf, CEO & Co Founder at Rebalance Earth. In this discussion, Walid reframes the conversation on how we can simultaneously tackle climate change, biodiversity loss and poverty by building a global platform for valuing and funding a living nature. Join us to find out how innovative technologies like blockchain, AI and IoT can work in partnership with nature tech to safeguard nature.
More about Rebalance Earth is at: https://www.rebalance.earth/
To get involved with the Hyperledger Climate Action and Accounting Special Interest Group, learn more at: https://wiki.hyperledger.org/display/CASIG/
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A
Oh,
it's
great
you're,
live
okay,
perfect,
so
welcome
everybody
to
today's
meeting
of
the
hyper
electric
climate
action,
recon
special
interest
group
on
november
30th.
Today
we
have
a
special
guest
here
and
our
meeting
is
waleed
al-sakaf.
He
will
talk
about
how
we
can
build
a
trustworthy,
transparent
and
traceable
ecosystem
to
safeguard
major
and
but
before
we
start
with
this
presentation.
A
This
is
a
hyper
lectures
call.
So
the
antitrust
policy
notice
is
in
effect,
as
well
as
the
hyperledger
code
of
conduct.
So
if
you
haven't
read
through
them,
click
on
them
and
please
follow
the
rules,
it's
about
being
kind
to
each
other
respect
each
other,
and
these
are
hyper
lecture
calls.
So
everyone
is
welcome
and
as
a
next
step,
we
give
new
members
new
people
on
the
call
the
chance
to
introduce
themselves.
So
if
there's
anyone
new
in
the
call,
please
feel
free
to
share
who
you
are.
A
A
A
A
Yeah,
maybe
it
ended
up
in
a
spam
folder.
In
any
case
they
restarted.
So
I
think
we're
all
good
okay,
so
about
waleed
walid
is
the
ceo
and
co-founder
of
rebalance
earth
and
real
business
earth
is
a
global
ecosystem
service
platform
for
valuating
and
finding
a
living
nature
to
combat
climate
change,
biodiversity
loss
and
lifting
communities
out
of
poverty?
I'm
pretty
sure.
A
Well,
it
will
tell
you
much
more
about
this
and
could
we'll
do
this
much
better
than
I
can
do,
but
also
he
started
off
his
corp
in
the
corporate
world
at
barclays,
corporate
banking
in
1998
and
he's
a
serial
entrepreneur
has
already
funded,
founded
six
startups
and
one
had
a
successful
acquisition
and
he
is
an
industry
associated
at
the
ucl
center
for
blockchain
technologies
and
the
proud
father
of
two
little
and
amazing
daughters,
so
wally.
Thank
you
so
much
for
joining
today.
B
B
B
It's
effectively
a
podcast
where
I've
interviewed
over
170
people
on
my
show
on
how
they
use
enterprise
grade
blockchain
solutions
within
their
respective
industries,
and
it's
within
this
podcast
that
I
got
the
chance
to
interview
mr
ralph
chami,
who
is
the
assistant
director
at
the
imf
and
the
reason
I
wanted
to
interview
him
is
because
he
wrote
this
article,
which
just
completely
shocked
my
world.
So
to
give
you
a
bit
of
background,
you
know
I'm
not
a
naturalist,
I'm
not
an
environmentalist,
I'm
not
a
conservationist.
B
I
am
curious.
I
am
you
know,
I
love
nature
and
so
on,
but
I
wouldn't
say
I'm
an
environmentalist,
but
when
I
read
this
article
in
which
he
stated
that
forest
elephants
are
worth
forty
thousand
dollars
dead
for
their
ivory,
but
according
to
the
imf
that
wears
1.75
million
dollars
for
that
carbon
sequestration
services,
they
do
in
the
forest
and
I'll
explain
this
later
on
in
the
slide.
B
B
All
these
externalities
are,
are
all
these
cosmic,
sincere
externality,
they
not
factored
into
the
price
of
the
product,
and
what
this
means
to
me
fundamentally,
is
that
we
as
a
society
we
value
nature
only
when
it's
dead,
we
do
not
value
it
as
a
living
nature.
We
value
it.
You
know
for
the
fish
you
eat
on
your
plate,
the
wood
in
terms
of
your
furniture.
B
In
all
these
examples,
we
value
a
dead
nature,
not
a
living
one,
and
that
frame
of
mind
is
what,
in
my
opinion,
causes
climate
change,
because
we
do
not
value
living
nature.
It's
what
causes
biodiversity
laws
that
we're
seeing
all
around
the
world
and
those
two
factors
when
you
combine
them
together,
is
actually
a
huge
trigger
of
global
poverty
and
I'll
be
explaining
this
later
on
in
slides,
because
we
did
not
value
living
and
living
nature,
only
a
dead
nature.
B
We
have
climate
change,
biodiversity
loss
and
increased
poverty,
and
climate
change
is
not
something
in
the
world
of
just
science.
Here
in
europe,
we
saw
it-
you
know
throughout
the
summer,
in
germany,
in
holland,
in
many
other
countries
in
europe
or
in
if
you're,
in
the
states
in
new
york.
These
were
some
of
the
floods
that
happened
not
so
long
ago,
but
it's
not
just
water.
B
B
Now
I'm
a
father
of
two
daughters,
so
the
picture
here
on
my
left
side,
you
got
soraya
who's,
nine
years
old
and
on
the
right
hand,
side
you've
got
gia
who's,
just
turned
11.
Actually
now
today's
children,
for
any
of
you
who
have
kids
yourselves,
will
feel
as
alarmed
as
I
did.
According
to
the
guardian,
today's
children
will
endure
an
average
of
30
extreme
heat
waves
in
their
lifetime
twice
as
many
droughts
and
wildfires
that
you
and
I,
as
adults,
have
experienced
and
three
times
more
river
floods
and
crop
failures.
B
B
Now,
let's
see
what
the
world
is
doing
to
fight
all
these
issues.
Well,
we're
planting
trees
and
god
knows
we
need
a
lot
of
trees,
but
there's
one
major
problem:
there's
not
enough
land
on
this
earth
to
plant
all
the
trees
we
need
to
offset
all
the
carbon
and,
second
of
all,
these
trees
take
decades
to
grow
into
fully
mature
trees
that
absorb
carbon.
B
Whilst
we
need
to
plant
those
trees,
what
is
crazy
is
that
we're
still
destroying
the
existing
mature
trees
that
exist
in
the
amazon
rainforest
or
that
exists
in
other
forests
around
the
world,
we're
still
destroying
the
ancient
trees.
Planting
trees
also
is
not
going
to
stop
the
ecosystem
destruction
of
the
oceans.
There
was
a
recent
netflix
documentary
that
also
explained
about
that
planting.
Trees
does
not
also
stop
the
destruction
of
biodiversity.
B
Here's
an
organ!
You
know
fighting
this
machine
from
you
know
destroying
you
know
its
homeland.
It
kind
of
makes
you
think
of
the
movie
avatar,
but
in
real
life,
and
that's
the
craziness
about
it
and,
as
I
said
earlier,
on,
the
combination
of
climate
change
and
biodiversity
is
a
huge
contributor
to
poverty.
According
to
the
world
bank,
climate
change
will
drive
68
to
132
million
people
into
poverty
by
2030.
B
B
B
B
They're
called
ecosystem
services.
So
if
we
focus
on
the
forest
elephant,
they
those
services
are
branched
into
four
groups
around
regulating
supporting
provisioning
and
cultural,
so
they
helped
regulate
their
climate.
They
helped
to
act
as
a
seed
dispersal
agent.
They
helped
providing
fresh
water
and
they
help
in
some
cultures.
You
know
they
have
an
ethical
value
or
spiritual
value
for
them
all.
B
These
are
being
provided
day
in
day
out
for
free
for
us
humans
to
to
enjoy
to
benefit
from
none
of
them
have
a
market,
except
for
one
now,
which
is
the
carbon
carbon
sequestration
services,
the
carbon
offsets,
because,
according
to
the
imf,
that
works
1.75
million
dollars
over
their
60-year
lifespan.
So
how
would
that
number
come
up?
B
It's
based
on
a
2019
scientific
study
in
nature
magazine
that
looked
at
the
congo
basin
in
central
africa.
To
give
you
an
idea,
the
congo
basin's
tropical
rainforest
is
the
second
largest
rainforest
after
the
amazon,
and
they
realized.
Something
quite
amazing
is
that
the
parts
of
the
forest
that
have
been
able
to
maintain
their
forest
elephants
capture
seven
percent
more
carbon
than
the
parts
of
the
forest
that
lost
their
elephants.
B
B
Well,
as
you
can
imagine
by
its
size
that
the
elephant
has
a
tendency
of
trampling
and
destroying
a
lot
of
the
smaller
plants-
and
he
has
this
particular
taste
to
eat,
but
also
to
destroy
trees
that
are
very
thin
in
terms
of
their
wood.
It's
very
low
density
compared
to
those
who
are
very
dense
wood.
B
B
The
super
absorbers
of
carbon
compared
to
the
trees
was
a
low
density
of
wood
and
the
forest
elephant
is
one
of
the
few
animals
who
can
eat
the
fruits
of
that
tree,
and
then
he
does
one
metric
ton
of
dung
of
poo
every
week
he
spreads
the
seeds
around
the
forest,
but
also
the
nutrients,
and
that
maintains
the
health
of
the
forest.
That's
why
they're
also
known
as
the
great
gardeners
of
the
rainforest
so
of
all
those
ecosystem
services.
We
have
one
that
we
can
peg
a
dollar
value
to
to
protecting
that
keystone
species.
B
B
For
that,
and
that's
where
rebalance
earth
comes
in
because
we're
building
this
global
ecosystem
services,
platform
for
valuing
and
funding
a
living
nature
to
combat
climate
change,
protect
biodiversity
and
to
lift
communities
out
of
poverty,
because
we
cannot
treat
each
of
these
problems
in
silos,
they're
all
interconnected,
and
that's
why
we
have
this
holistic
approach
to
fighting
all
of
these
problems,
and
this
is
how
we're
going
to
do
it.
So,
on
the
left
hand,
side
you
have
buyers,
whether
it's
households,
corporates
capital
markets,
who
come
onto
the
platform
to
buy
ecosystem
services
credits.
B
B
So
our
proposition
is
the
following
for
local
communities,
we're
here
to
create
jobs
and
improve
their
living
standards,
we're
here
to
create
a
symbiotic
relationship
between
themselves
and
nature,
but
critically
we're
here
to
make
conserving
nature
profitable.
It's
not
about
charity.
Charity
does
not
work.
It
has
to
be
profitable.
You
safeguard
that
species.
B
You
get
free
education,
free
healthcare,
you
get
jobs
created
from
a
government
perspective.
Gabon
has
45
000
elephants.
That
means
we
could
add
31
billion
dollars
for
their
balance
sheet.
You
need
a
system
to
be
able
to
promote
good
governance.
You
don't
want
ministers
or
local
politicians
to
take
money
out
of
the
platform
and
that's
where,
of
course,
the
blockchain
can
help
as
we
can
track
everything.
So
we
can
promote
good
governance.
B
We
can
create
new
revenue
streams
for
the
government
as
we
create
new
jobs.
New
taxable
income
from
a
nature
perspective,
we're
protecting
nature,
we're
regenerating
biodiversity
and,
from
a
buyer's
perspective,
we're
creating
this
transparent,
traceable
and
trusted
carbon
offset.
I'm
an
ecosystem
services,
credit
priced
as
a
carbon.
Instead,
because
we've
learned
the
mistakes
of
the
carbon
offset
markets
in
the
past,
there
was
lack
of
transparency.
B
B
Microsoft
was
a
client
again
hypothetically,
so
you
would
say
how
many
ecosystem
services
tokens
were
produced.
The
value
of
the
contract
has
been
delivered.
How
much
is
outstanding
and
an
example
of
how
we
transform
your
carbon
dollars
into
carbon
foot
social
good
in
the
building
of
the
school
in
this
example,
but
the
most
important
tab
is,
if
you
click
on
your
elephants,
where,
for
every
single
day
in
the
past,
we
can
show
you
that
on
that
day,
these
are
the
elephants
that
produced
your
tokens
on
another
day.
It's
a
different
set
of
elephants.
B
So
you
have
this
whole
community
of
elephants
that
are
producing
those
ecosystem
services.
Tokens-
and
you
can
see
the
pictures
you
can
see
the
video
files,
the
sound
files
or
the
dna
test
that
proves
this
is
a
unique
elephant
that
produced
a
unique
token,
there's
no
double
counting,
but
imagine
the
visual
value
in
those
pictures
in
those
videos
and
how
we
can
help
bring
the
buyers,
whether
it's
a
household
or
an
enterprise
closer
to
nature
in
within
a
24-hour
basis.
B
But
there's
this
african
proverb
that
says
if
you
want
to
go
fast,
go
alone.
If
you
want
to
go
far,
you
go
together
and
we
definitely
want
to
go
together,
because
I
think,
what's
important
to
understand
is
that
you
see
the
forest
elephants
behind
me.
According
to
the
iucn
they're
going
to
go
extinct
in
10
years,
we're
going
to
lose
seven
percent
of
those
carbon
offsets
because
of
those
elephants
being
gone.
B
B
That's
the
only
market
that
exists
today,
so
in
this
manner
we
can
really
accelerate
the
number
of
keystone
species.
We
can
provide
and
projection
for,
say
because
there
is
a
market
for
them,
but
then,
of
course,
there's
the
question
of.
If
you
uploading
that
keystone
speedy,
how
are
you
going
to
monitor
it?
You
need
sensors
and
that's
where
we
we
realize
we
can
plug
in
with
the
hundreds
of
thousands
of
conservationist
groups
which
are
already
on
the
ground
all
around
the
globe
who
have
their
own
sensors.
So
I'll
give
you
an
example.
B
I
remember
our
telling
we're
looking
to
launch
in
gabon
early
next
year.
This
is
victoria,
that's
it
from
the
max
planck
institute,
a
german
institute
who
have
been
monitoring
the
great
apes
in
the
luango
national
park
for
the
last
I
think,
six
years,
and
they
have
a
network
of
30
camera
traps.
Those
motion
activated
camera
tracks,
take
pictures
of
the
apes,
but
also
the
elephants
who
move
bikes.
B
It's
everything
that
moves
they've,
given
us
21
gigabytes
worth
of
pictures
already
and
by
connecting
their
sensors
to
our
platform,
we
can
generate
revenues
for
them
because
for
every
picture
or
video
that
we
use
from
their
sensors,
we
will
pay
them
up
to
a
dollar
for
that
image.
For
that
video
so
effectively
we're
transforming
that
camera
traps
as
a
source
of
revenue,
we're
effectively
funding
conservationism
and
that
helps
us
to
be
able
to
get
scale
to
be
able
to
have
this
network
of
sensors
all
around
the
world.
B
That
provides
pictures,
videos
and
sound
files
of
the
keystone
species
and
enables
all
of
the
charities,
ngos,
institutions
and
governments
want
to
upload
their
keys
on
speech
to
be
able
to
monitor
it
now
critically,
with
this
horde
of
data
we're
going
to
get,
we
want
to
standardize
it.
We
want
to
clean
it.
B
We
want
to
make
sure
it's
really
well
structured,
because
we
want
to
distribute
it
for
free
to
the
scientific
community
around
the
world,
for
them
to
use
that
data
to
have
a
better
understanding
of
biodiversity,
because
it
is
with
that
better
understanding
that
we're
going
to
be
able
to
start
unlocking
the
other
valuations
of
those
ecosystem
services,
because
I
do
not
want
to
be
dependent
on
just
carbon
assets.
I
want
to
understand
the
value
of
those
other
services.
B
Let
me
give
you
an
example
and
remember:
one
of
the
ecosystem
services
is
around
regulating
the
climate.
Did
you
know
that?
What
part
of
what
the
elephants
does
regulates
the
humidity
of
the
forest
in
the
congo
basin-
and
this
is
critically
important,
because
the
humidity
on
the
eastern
side
of
the
congo
basin
is
what
provides
the
rain
water
to
the
ethiopian
hills,
which
comes
down
the
hills
into
the
nile
which
the
farmers
in
egypt
are
grateful
for
the
western
part
of
the
congo
rainforest.
B
We
launched
a
few
months
ago
in
partnership
with
the
minister
of
the
environment
for
gabon,
the
world's
what
we
believe
is
the
world's
first
nature
sandbox,
where
over
a
period
of
two
years,
we're
working
today
already
with
a
global
team
of
scientists
to
better
understand
the
impact
those
forest
elephants
have
on
the
forest.
In
terms
of
their
ecosystem
services
and
all
of
that
knowledge
is
what's
going
to
help
us
develop
a
more
rigorous
scientific
framework
so
that
we
can
upload
more
keystone
species
onto
the
platform.
B
So,
for
example,
insurance
companies
could
come
in
and
start
insuring
those
those
assets
or
providing
micro
insurance
to
to
the
farmers
in
in
gabon
in
other
jurisdictions,
because
now
we're
taking
effectively
an
unbanked
population
and
we
make
them
backable
with
digital
wallets
that
we
can
provide
to
them.
So
all
of
this
you
need
a
strong,
independent
governance
oversight
body.
That's
going
to
be
composed
of
rebalance
earth's
re
representatives
from
the
national
governments
in
which
we
operated
representatives
of
the
local
communities
in
which
we
operated
and
two
types
of
global
institutions.
B
We've
had
a
number
of
conversations
with
the
world
bank
to
help
us
manage
this
new
asset
class,
but
also
we
want
to
work
with
the
and
with
greenpeace
to
be
able
to
fight
against
firms
who
want
to
use
this
for
greenwashing,
because
that
is
not
acceptable.
You
have,
as
a
company
to
do
the
necessary
changes
for
you
to
become
net
zero,
we're
just
here
to
help
you
on
that
journey.
You're
not
here
to
use
us
only
because
that
is
not
acceptable.
B
So
let
me
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
the
team,
who
are
we
well
there's
three
co-founders
myself
and
the
assistant
director
of
the
imf,
ralph,
chiami
and
also
ian
redmond,
our
wildlife,
conservationist
and
ian
redmond
he's
like
a
a
cross
between
david,
attenborough
and
indiana
jones.
He's
been
doing
this
for
40
years
and
he's
truly
passionate
about
conservationism
and
to
help
drive
all
this.
We
have
his
team
of
amazing
individuals,
60
volunteers,
from
all
around
the
world
from
all
walks
of
life.
B
We
we
have
lawyers,
we
have
startup
founders,
we
have
musicians,
we
have
developers
all
kinds
of
skill
sets
are
here,
because
the
problem
we're
facing
requires
a
multi-disciplinary
approach
to
tackling
it.
It
won't
be
solved
only
by
technology
or
only
by
politics
or
only
by
legal
frameworks.
It
needs
everybody
on
board
and
we
were
born
out
of
covid
in
november
of
last
year.
90
of
us
have
never
met,
except
for
zoom,
so
what
unites
us
is
to
be
human,
have
love
and
give
hope,
and
we
are
registered
here
in
the
uk.
B
That's
what's
called
a
community
interest
company,
it's
a
for-profit
company,
but
there
are
some
critical
conditions
related
to
it.
We
can
never
be
acquired
and
we
can
never
be
listed
on
the
stock
market.
I.E.
Our
shares
have
no
monetary
value,
because
I
don't
want
this
to
be
acquired
by
some
company
at
some
stage
and
change
it
for
whatever
reasons
all
the
profits
are
reinvested
to
safeguard
keystone
species,
to
fight
climate
change,
to
protect
biodiversity
and
to
lift
communities
out
of
poverty.
B
A
A
A
Well,
thank
you
so
much
for
your
presentation.
I
really
really
enjoyed
it,
there's
so
much
value
and
what
were
you
saying
and
and
the
idea
you
framed
about
and
just
capitalizing
later,
in
a
way
of
that
it
protects
nature.
So
so
you
just
take
money
out
of
the
real
world
tokenize
it
endeavor
to
protect
their
ecosystems,
service
providers
of
our
world,
and
it's
not
just
about
fighting
climate
changes.
It's
a
combination
of
the
keys
and
species
and
poverty
and
climate
change.
That
is
amazing.
Thank
you
and
yeah.
A
B
I
mean
if
you
want,
whilst
the
your
questions
are
are
coming,
I
I
can
talk
about
some
reactions.
You
know
we've
been
getting
so,
for
example,
I
had
the
pleasure
of
attending
cop26
in
glasgow
three
four
weeks
ago.
My
notion
of
time
is
kind
of
escaping
with
the
amount
of
work
we
have,
and
you
know
the
government
of
gabon
is,
of
course,
is
a
big
fan
and
supporter
of
this
and
interactions.
B
I've
had
with
some
other
government
entities
and
with
some
corporations
has
been
very
supportive
because
what
they
like
about
this
is
that
it's
a
holistic
solution.
You
know
they
don't
have
to
say.
Okay,
I
need
to
focus
on
climate
change
here.
I
need
to
focus
on
biodiversity
here
I
need
to
do
business
and
this
no.
This
is
a
one,
all-encompassing
solution
that
helps
to
address
all
of
these
problems
at
the
same
time
but
yeah
when
you're
mining
tokens
from
the
athens.
How
do
you
ensure
the
value
of
the
tokens?
B
So
it's
a
good
question.
So
thank
you
for
that.
One
of
the
approaches
we're
looking
at
is
that
if
you
look
at
carbon
offsets,
there
are
two
types:
there
is
the
carbon
credits
which
are
extremely
well
rigged,
which
are
well
regulated,
let's
say,
and
then
you've
got
the
voluntary
carbon
offsets,
which
is
a
bit
the
wild
west.
To
be
honest,
the
carbon
credits
are
valued,
it
depends
if
which
market
you
look
at,
but
the
european
market
is
probably
the
most
established
one.
B
I
believe
they're
closer
to
70
dollars
right
now
per
metric
ton,
the
voluntary
carbon
offset
it
can
really
vary.
It
depends
on
what
a
buyer
feels
the
the
value
of
it
it
can
be.
For
example,
if
you
look
at
stripe,
they
buy
carbon
offsets
and
that
varies
between
four
dollars
to
a
hundred
dollars,
because
it
all
depends
on
what
are
the
let's
say,
the
carbon
plus
value.
Is
it
just
carbon
you're
providing
or
are
you
providing
additional
stuff?
B
Obviously
we're
providing
a
lot
of
additional
stuff,
and
what
we've
agreed
with
the
minister
of
gabon
is
a
price
of
fifty
dollars
on
which
to
pro
to
to
price
ourselves.
For
the
initial
token,
as
we
start
getting
more
data
and
more
understanding
on
the
valuation
of
those
ecosystem
sources
outside
of
just
carbon
offset,
then
we
will
review
that
kind
of
pricing.
B
But
one
of
the
other
key
messages
that
came
out
of
cop26
is
that
there's
a
huge
premium
for
what's
called
a
a
top-tier
carbon
offset.
So
what
is
a
top
tier
carbon
acid
is
one
that
you
can
really
trace
the
providence
of
it
that
you
can
confirm
that
it
is
authentic
and
that
it
hasn't
been
double
counted.
If
you
can
do
that
and
there's
a
certain
amount
of
benefit
that
comes
with
it,
then
you
can
get
a
top
price
to
ensure
we
get
that
top
price
we're
also
working
with
what's
called
vera.
B
So
vera
is
one
of
the
main
third
parties
out
there
that
actually
monitors
the
the
creation
of
those
carbon
credits.
Then
independent
trusted
party
that
works
under
the
red
plus
the
unreplaced
agreements,
so
we're
working
with
them
in
terms
of
our
nature,
sandbox
to
be
able
to
see
what
are
their
standards.
We
can
use
in
terms
of
framing
our
ecosystem
services
tokens
around
that
to
make
sure
we
get
that
top
top
tier
valuation
in
terms
of
our
carbon
credits.
I
hope
that's
answered
your
question.
B
Matt
inches.
What's
your
view
on
the
emergence
of
green
washington
corporate
strategy
to
claim
neutrality,
yeah
green
washing
is
a
is
a
real,
authentic
threat.
There's
no
denying
about
that
firms.
Some
firms
or
you
know,
do
it
because
they
believe
in
their
hearts
and
hearts
that
that's
the
right
thing
to
do.
Patagonia
is
one
of
the
best
examples
out
there.
B
You
get
some
who
do
it
because
I
think
they
understand
the
changing
market
on
how
consumers
are
more
informed,
that
they
want
firms
that
have
a
proactive
approach
protecting
climate
and
they
realize
that
their
employees
also
want
to
work
for
firms
who
have
a
good
view,
and
probably
microsoft
is
a
good
example
who
said
we
don't
want
to
be
just
carbon
neutral.
We
want
to
be
carbon
negative.
We
want
to
pay
back
our
debt
to
nature
for
the
last
40
years
that
we've
basically
consumed
that
we
contributed
to
climate
change.
So
our
approach
is
twofold.
B
As
you
can
imagine
again,
we're
all
run
by
volunteers,
so
none
of
us
are
being
paid
for
this.
We're
all
doing
this
in
our
spare
time.
So
what
we've
created
as
part
of
the
onboarding
process
for
firms
is
a
digital
pledge,
where
the
firm
has
to
to
pledge
that
they
were
not
using
this
for
green
washing,
but
also
within
the
onboarding.
We
have
a
team,
that's
going
to
be
verifying.
Has
that
firm
made
a
clear
and
measurable
public
statement
that
says
by
when
they're
going
to
be
carbon
neutral?
B
I
hope
that's
answered
your
question
and
what
is
the
other
video,
the
credits
that
are
produced
and
what
is
the
price
for
the
credit?
So,
as
I
said
at
the
moment,
we're
looking
at
a
price
point
of
50.
Now
we
haven't
launched
yet
we're
hoping
to
launch
between
q2
and
q3
next
year.
You
have
to
understand
that
what
we're
trying
to
do
has
never
been
done.
It
is
very
hard
and
it
is
run
just
by
volunteers,
but
we
have
received
enormous
support,
so
we've
already
got
the
support
of
r3.
B
We've
got
the
support
of
warwick
business
school.
We've
got
the
support
of
52
universities
from
china
to
the
united
states
and
everything
in
between
the
support,
of
course,
of
the
ministry
of
the
environment
for
gabon.
So
all
of
this
is
is
what
will
enable
us,
of
course,
to
launch
within
q2
and
q3
and
where
those
tokens
will
be
able
to
purchase,
and
we
will
be
publishing
that
on
linkedin,
twitter
and
all
the
social
media
links.
B
Having
said
that,
I'm
hoping
before
the
end
this
year
we're
going
to
be
able
to
announce
the
first
corporate,
though
that
is
signing
and
an
mou
with
us
to
buy
the
the
first
tokens
as
soon
as
they
come
out.
What
is
the
mechanism
of
value
returning
to
communities
in
estuaries
for
the
partnership
with
recruiters?
I'm
thinking
about
how
this
could
intend.
A
B
Gabon,
definitely
one
of
them.
You
have
they
have
this
colonialism
heritage
in
mind
and
you
have
to
be
very
sensitive
about
it.
So
you
want
to
be
able
to
give
them
the
tools
where
they
can
make
the
right
decisions,
but
also
agree
together,
some
incentive
mechanisms
and
I'm
very
privileged
that
we
can
leverage
the
the
learnings
from
other
initiatives,
including
one
from
hyperledger
that
was
done
by
the
plastic
bank
in
terms
of
what
they
did
in
a
very
similar
system
to
ours,
which
we
drew
inspiration
from
theirs,
which
is
around
plastic.
B
And
here
it's
about
saying,
for
example,
if
you
wish
to
use
your
your
tokens
to
purchase,
I
don't
know
a
50
inch
screen
tv
for
your
community
center.
You
get
70
percent
of
the
tokens.
If
you
you
want
to
use
it
to
build
a
school,
you
get
100
of
the
value
of
solace,
maybe
even
110,
but
these
have
to
be
agreed
in
partnership
with
them
and
it's
always
very
tricky
to
make
sure.
Are
you
working
with
the
right
representative
from
the
local
community?
You
know,
is
our
representative,
you
know
an
elected
official.
Is
it
just?
B
You
know,
I
don't
know
the
elders
of
that
community.
We
we're
not
here
to
do
social
engineering,
so
we
have
to
work
within
their
existing
structure.
So
that's
that's
our
approach
and
we're
gonna
figure
it
out
we're
in
january
we're
actually
sending
a
team
over
to
gabon
to
start
interacting
with
some
of
the
local
communities.
Hopefully
recruit
one
or
two
they're
gonna
be
the
first
employees
are
gonna,
get
paid
to
be
our
representatives
on
the
ground
to
be
able
to
to
communicate
with
them
in
an
appropriate
manner.
I.
B
I
think
it
was
four
or
five
years
ago
and
they
basically
enable
local
communities
who
live
alongside
the
riverways
of
countries.
I
know
they're
in
egypt
and
I
if
memory
serves
me
right,
maybe
in
malaysia,
I'm
not
too
sure
but
effectively.
If
you
pick
up
those
plastic
and
then
bring
it
to
a
collection
point
and
the
collection
point
will
size,
it
provide
you
an
id
it's
sent
over
to
the
west,
who
recycles
the
plastic,
sells
it
to.
Let's
say
supermarkets
x,
marks
and
spencers,
who
use
the
plastic
to
make
plastic
bags.
B
The
value
of
that
plastic
that
is
purchased
is
then
sent
back
to
the
pic
the
person
who
picked
it
up
as
a
token,
and
they
can
use
that
token
to
purchase
different
services
to
support
them.
So
that
kind
of
model
I
absolutely
loved,
and
we
worked
with
both
david
cass
and
his
cto
sean
to
basically
finesse
our
model,
because
I
don't
believe
in
reinventing
the
wheel.
If
there's
a
model
out
there
that
exists,
we
will
work
with
them
to
try
and
learn
from
it
and
build
on
it.
B
Yeah
yeah
so
we're
we're
still
refining
and
the
business
model,
but
it
effectively
what
we
will
do
is
it
will
charge
a
transactional
fee
that
it's
gonna
be
a
percentage
related
to
the
transaction.
So
for
let's
say
for
argument's
sake,
you
know
we
sell
a
hundred
dollar
token.
Then
you
know
we
take
a
ten
dollar
transaction
fee
and
that
fee
is
used
to
pay
the
operational
costs.
B
You
know
running
the
team,
but
a
significant
percentage
of
the
fee
is
actually
going
to
go
back
into
the
nature
sandbox
into
the
science
team.
So
we
can
accelerate
knowledge
and
and
science
in
understanding
the
value
of
biodiversity,
because
the
more
there
is
data,
the
more
there
is
science
and
and
economic
models
around
those
ecosystem
services
and
around
biodiversity.
B
The
more
we
have
a
diverse
view
on
the
value
of
those
tokens.
I
do
not
want
to
be
based
on
just
carbon
analysis.
Carbonyl
said
we
were
kind
of
forced
to
take
it,
because
that's
the
only
one
that
existed
as
a
market,
but
we
use
that
funding
to
be
able
to
invest
in
learning
a
biodiversity
such
as,
for
example,
the
example.
I
gave
you
around
the
humidity
in
the
forest.
B
We
can
have
robust
models
that
can
explain
why
this
valuation
was
how
that
evaluation
was
built
and
why
we
believe
that
price
is
now
50
plus
x
and
that's
how
we
ourselves
are
sustainable
and
that
we're
highly
profitable.
So
we
can
get
the
science
to
protect
as
many
other
keystone
species
as
fast
as
possible.
B
What's
the
best
way
to
contact
me,
please
do
contact
me
and
you
can
find
me
on
linkedin.
That's
probably
the
best
way,
or
else
you
know
feel
free
to
email
me
on
rebalance.earth.
Let
me
get
you
my
my
linkedin.
You
can
follow
me
also.
You
can
follow
sorry
rebalance
earth
on
linkedin,
it's
probably
the
the
best
channel.
Let
me
get
you
that
up
also
view
as
a
member.
B
B
We
cannot
continue
thinking
that
just
fighting
climate
change
as
a
solution
by
building
technology,
like
the
the
orca
thing
it's
called
in
iceland,
it's
a
it's
a
machine
that
actually
absorbs
carbon
from
the
air
and
puts
it
into
mineralize
into
a
rock
and
then
puts
it
deep
underground
and
we
do
need
these
kinds
of
machines.
But
the
problem
with
these
machines
is
that
there
is
no
ripple
effect.
B
So
if
let's
say
for
every
dollar,
you
invest
in
in
getting
this
machine
to
absorb
the
carbon,
that's
all
you
get.
You
get
that
imagine
for
that
same
dollar,
you
invest,
you
put
it
into
a
forest
elephant.
You
get
the
carbon
offset,
but
you
also
get
all
the
other
ecosystem
services
they
provide
and
you
that
dollar
goes
to
invest
in
the
local
communities.
B
The
more
you
raise
local
communities
out
of
poverty,
the
more
they
don't
need
to
migrate,
the
more
they
can
have
a
healthy,
sustainable
form
of
living.
In
their
homes,
no
one
wants
to
migrate,
but
if
you
give
the
opportunity
to
get
good
jobs,
that's
great
one
thing
I
forgot
to
mention,
and
that
is
very
important.
B
You
know
coming
back
to
the
initial
question.
We
want
to
incentivize
those
local
communities
to
develop
a
kind
of
a
micro
credit
fund,
I.e
providing
short-term
loans
providing
loans,
very
small
loans
to
women,
because
we
want
to
empower
women
to
be
able
to
invest
in
creating
their
own
little
businesses,
whether
it's
a
shop
or
whatever
else
they
want
to
build
because
there's
a
direct
correlation
between
giving
women,
educational
and
financial
producing
opportunities
and
the
health
of
a
society.
B
So
we
definitely
want
to
encourage
this
as
possible.
This
is
why
I'm
saying
this
project
is
very
wide
in
terms
of
its
scope,
but
it
needs
to
be
looked
at
in
this
holistic
fashion.
It
cannot
be
looked
at
in
a
silo
because
the
more
you
look
at
nature,
the
more
you
realize
how
everything
is
so
incredibly
interconnected.
B
B
I
want
to
build
a
marketplace
global
energy
chain.
Let
me
open
your
link,
a
glow
energy
building,
sustainable
solutions
for
climate
action
and
new
energy
markets.
I
I
don't
know
of
it
bobby,
but
I'm
happy
to
look
into
it.
We
as
rebounds.
We
want
to
be
interconnected
with
all
other
initiatives
as
possible.
B
Let
me
give
you
an
example:
there
are
other
blockchain
initiatives
that
perhaps
focus
more
on
forest
or
on
soil
in
terms
of
fighting
climate
change,
and
these
are
all
very
important,
but
we
want
to
be
able
to
interconnect
with
all
of
them
as
much
as
possible,
because
I
know
this
is
blue
sky
thinking.
I'm
I'm
assuming
most
of
you
guys
are
familiar
with
the
concept
of
a
stable
coin.
So
for
those
of
you
who
are
not
think
of
you
know
bitcoin,
it's
not
a
stable
coin.
B
It
goes
up
and
down
you're
a
millionaire
one
day
and
then
you're
broke
the
other
day.
The
stable
coin,
like
tether,
for
example,
is
pegged
to
the
us
dollar.
Imagine
you
have
a
nature,
stable
coin
that
is
pegged
to
all
of
these
initiatives:
rebounds
earth
and
all
the
others,
so
that
that
country,
the
more
it
protects,
biodiversity,
the
more
it's
rewarded,
so
that
again,
is
blue
sky
thinking,
but
I
thought
I'll
share
with
you
guys
because
you're
more
aware
about
this,
how
much
will
the
forest
rangers
investors,
volunteers,
no
appraised,
insurers
make?
B
Who
else
stands
for
profit?
Do
you
have
any
an
mvp
of
ubisoft
so
we're
hoping
to
have
an
mvp
by
q2q3
next
year?
Elizabeth
right
now
we
have
a
proof
of
concept
of
our
token
structure
and
we're
building
on
on
the
on
the
quarter.
Blockchain
the
actual
platform
forest
rangers
again
depends
on
jurisdiction,
so
their
salaries,
you
know,
depend
can
vary.
B
But
of
course,
here
we
want
to
be
able
to
help
finance
paying
those
forex
ranges,
because
very
often
they're
not
paid
for
months
to
come,
so
they
don't
really
do
their
service.
We
want
to
be
able
to
to
you
know,
provide
them
a
stable
income
so
that
they
can
perform
their
services
to
protect
the
forest,
elephants,
investors,
so
investors,
we
are
looking
for
investors,
but
they're
called
impact
investors,
because,
because
we're
a
cic
we
cannot
provide
shareholder
value.
B
B
B
Thank
you,
we're
inevitably
all
interconnected.
Yes,
we
we
definitely
and
thank
you
bobby
blue
sky
thinking.
We
do
need
blue
sky
thinking.
You
know,
because
you
never
know
there
was
speed
at
which
technology
is
evolving,
so
blue
sky
thinking
can
happen
tomorrow
and
you
gotta
think
big.
That's
you
know.
As
I
said,
this
is
my
seventh
startup
and
I
always
want
to
think
big
because
you
have
to
you
know
you
have
to
dream.
B
A
I'm
sorry
to
have
another
question
related
to
the
token
economics
of
rebalance
earth,
there's
one
token
that
we
can
buy
for
its
status
50
and
it's
backed
by
one
day
of
a
living
elephant.
At
the
moment.
Yes-
and
I
guess
there
will
be
another
token
that
the
local
communities
will
be
paid
with
right,
yes,
okay
and
if
I
buy
this
token,
is
this
just
for
me?
Or
can
I
just
see
this
as
a
donation
that
I
do
to
offset
my
carbon
footprint
and
support
local
communities
and
and
try
to
prevent
biodiversity
loss?
A
B
Yes,
yes,
so
there's
a
lot
of
debate
around
that
internally
within
rebounds
earth,
because
if
you
make
that
token
an
investable
asset,
then
the
good
parts
about
it
is
that
we
can
open
up
very
rapidly.
The
capital
markets
will
say
here:
here's
100
million
dollars
because
we
believe
and
that's
what's
happening.
The
price
of
carbon
is
going
to
go
up
by
the
time
we
heat
2030
and
we
see
it
happening
even
just
within
this
year.
B
B
B
It
can
sit
on
their
balance
sheet
and
they
can
prove
potentially
the
regulators
that
they
are
carbon
offset
they've
met
their
regulatory
requirements
for
that
year
because,
if
you
think
of
an
analogy,
if
you
have
a
plumber
that
comes
in
your
house
and
fixes
your
pipes
he's
done
that
work,
you
can't
really
resell
that
work,
because
it
won't
work
for
another
house
right.
So
the
forest
elephant
has
done
his
or
her
services
in
the
forest.
Yesterday,
it's
done.
B
B
We
are,
however-
and
this
is
really
in
the
early
days
thinking
like
last
week-
we're
trying
to
think
about
if
you
think
about
this
ecosystem
service
token,
as
kind
of
a
utility
token,
is
there
an
opportunity
for
a
kind
of
a
cryptocurrency
token
on
top?
So
let
me
explain
the
thing
because
and
again
apologies.
This
is
really
early
days.
B
Is
that
if
somehow
we
can
trade,
we
can
link
that
utility
joke
into
the
crypto
coin.
That
says,
if
you
every
time
we
can
prove
that
an
elephant
was
alive
yesterday,
we
produce
an
ecosystem,
serve
token.
That
also
produces
let's
say,
rebalance
crypto
coin,
one
that
once
that
ecosys
service
token
is
purchased.
B
Can
I
somehow
put
pressure
on
my
the
firms
where
I
make
purchases
nike
or
apple
or
whoever
to
start
buying
those
ecosystems
token,
because
then
I
will
benefit
from
it
financially
also,
so
it's
about
figuring
out
how
I
can
create
multiple
layers
of
incentive
mechanisms
for
every
single
actor.
Don't
know
quite
how
we're
going
to
do
this,
but
the
idea
is,
and
we
like
to
throw
ideas
on
the
wall
and
trying
to
figure
out
what
can
stick,
how
we
can
make
it
work
and
to
roll
out
onto
it.
B
A
B
So
if
you
are
on
the
call
or
hearing
this,
and
you
have
some
speciality,
please
please,
please,
please
reach
out
to
to
me
and
and
I'd
love,
to
have
a
chat
with
you
in
terms
of
the
other
question
matt
with
other
species.
Will
you
bring
into
the
platform
yeah?
We
want
to
bring
as
many
other
species
as
possible.
Now,
initially
we
as
rebounds
we're
going
to
use
a
certain
kind
of
matrix,
which
is
how
can
we
leverage
our
learnings
from
the
african
forest
health
into
the
next
species?
B
So
probably
the
savannah
elephant,
but
also
the
the
gorillas,
the
great
eights,
for
example,
because
for
every
elephant
you
roughly
get
great
four
great
apes
in
terms
of
value,
so
that
could
be
one.
The
second
feature
we
look
at
is
what
is
their
level
of
threat
extinction
threat
for
us
to
focus
on,
but,
as
I
said
for
us,
the
real
opportunity
is
to
open
up
that
marketplace.
So
it's
not
dependent
upon
how
fast
we
can
grow
to
protect
it.
We
want
others
to
be
able
to
join
in.
B
How
would
you
code
the
automated
burning
of
the
token,
I'm
afraid?
That's
beyond
my
technical
knowledge,
so
I'm
afraid
I
can't
really
help
you
on
that.
So
at
the
moment,
the
the
so
the
the
core
platform
is
developed
on
r3
corda.
The
reason
for
that
is,
you
know
it's
a
very
strong,
stable
platform.
It's
one
used
by
financial
institutions
around
the
world.
B
I
don't
want
to
go
into
a
large
financial
institution
or
into
a
government
and
explain
to
them
why
we're
using
this
or
x
y
blockchain
platform,
I
tell
them
I'm
using
corda
and
I'll
say.
Well,
you
know
most
of
the
banks
are
using
that
and
it
just
it
helps
move
on
the
conversation
much
faster,
but
in
terms
of
the
the
crypto
coin.
No
idea
at
this
stage,
because
literally
this
is
just
a
week.
So
kind
of
thinking-
and
we
want
to
develop
that
so
if
you
have
some
views,
please
do
share
it
with
us.
B
What's
important
is
that
we
do
not
want
a
platform
that
has
a
high
energy
consumption
cost
for
the
obvious
reasons
yeah.
So
that's
that's
about
it.
In
terms
of,
I
think
the
questions
are
being
asked
and
yeah
I'm
happy
to
take
any
other
questions.
Sorry
that
was
my
daughter
just
coming
into
the
room.
A
B
Absolutely
absolutely,
as
I
said,
we
chose
cordon
because
it
made
sense
for
a
number
of
reasons,
but
we
could
have
chosen
hyperledger
fabric
very
easily.
Also,
you
know
it's
a
great
platform,
but
we
want
to
be
as
much
platform
agnostic
in
the
future.
We
want
to
be
able
to
interconnect
with
everyone
and
robin
you
know,
thank
you.
You
know
so
much
for
giving
me
the
opportunity
to
to
present
rebouncers
to
this
great
group
of
people.
Thank
you
all
for
your
questions.
It's
been
a
real
pleasure
and
please,
let's,
let's
keep
talking.