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From YouTube: Internet Society Board of Trustees Meeting 142 - Day 2
Description
Internet Society Board of Trustees Meeting 142 - Day 2
9-10 November 2018, Bangkok, Thailand
Agenda available here: https://www.internetsociety.org/board-of-trustees/meetings/142/
A
A
Perfect,
so
welcome
to
the
second
day
of
our
meeting.
We
started
this
morning
with
an
executive
session
I've
reflected
in
the
agenda,
so
we
were
receiving
a
report
from
the
PIR
and
in
particular
we
were
discussing
the
budget.
So
the
first
agenda
item
today,
which
is
it's
18
only
19,
so
agenda
item
18,
is
to
basically
approve
the
the
PIR
budget
as
it
was
presented
this
morning
and
so
everybody
so
the
percentage
then
and
well
I
mean
like
yeah.
This
Ray
was
recused
this
morning,
so
so
she
wasn't
there.
A
A
Okay,
then,
then
we
can
do
show
of
hands
because
yeah
we
are
out
here
so
we're
gonna.
Do
yes?
No
abstain,
so
everybody
voting?
Yes,
please
raise
your
hand,
everybody
everybody
voting,
no
any
upstages.
Okay.
So
we
have
ten
positive
votes
with
Glenn
and
this
area
being
absent.
Okay,
good
perfect.
So
the
resolution
passes
moving
on
to
the
next
point
in
the
agenda,
which
is
you
know,
obviously
really
really
important.
Is
there
a
plan
for
2019
and
you
know
andrew
is
going
to
drive
there
so
andrew
the
floor?
Is
yours.
B
Thank
you
very
much.
Those
of
you
who
don't
know
me,
I'm
andrew,
I
don't
know
if
there's
anybody
on
mind
say
that
we're
gonna
talk
about
the
action
plan,
the
board.
This
has
been
circulated
to
all
of
you.
Of
course,
it
has
not
been
published
until
it's
approved,
so
I'm
going
to
talk
about
this.
A
little
bit
today
feel
free
to
interrupt
me
at
any
time.
We
also
have
many
of
the
staff
here
who
can
answer
questions
thanks,
please.
B
If
you,
if
you
look
at
that
on
your
phone
and
you
turn
it
sideways,
it
turns
out
that
there's
still
two
other
issues
lists
so
on
we've,
we've
had
a
problem
where
we've
had
a
difficulty
on
a
narrowing
down
precisely
what
we're
working
on
and
understanding
which
things
are
topics
that
we're
working
on
things.
You
know
things
that
we're
trying
to
do
as
opposed
to
the
ways
that
we
do
things
and
so
on
we've
been
treating
them
all
this
topic
stuff.
B
One
of
the
things
that
we're
trying
to
do
this
year
is
to
make
that
a
little
clearer.
Next,
please,
the
the
mission
and
the
vision
of
the
internet
society
can
be
boiled
down
into
this
sentence
and
that's
an
important
thing
to
do,
not
because
it's
an
elegant
sentence,
it's
not,
but
rather
because
it
allows
everybody
to
say
with
one.
You
know
simple
phrase,
precisely
why
we
are
trying
to
do
all
of
this
work.
What
is
the
basis
on
which
we're
working?
These
are
the
things
we
want.
B
Do
we
want
the
network
to
be
open
to
be
globally
connected,
be
trustworthy
and
secure,
and
we
want
to
do
that
for
everyone,
everything
that
we
do
ought
to
go
towards
this.
This
is
what
we
think
of
as
our
strategic
goal.
What
it
is
that
we're
trying
to
get
to
so
you
know
if
you're,
if
you're,
trying
to
run
a
military
campaign,
you
know,
ultimately
what
you're
trying
to
do
is
you
know
defeat
the
enemy
or
something
like
that
and,
and
you
have
tactics
along
the
way.
B
So
what
we've
tried
to
do
in
the
plan
this
year
is
to
tease
out
those
topics
that
we're
working
on
and
and
to
tease
them
out
according
to
how
that
single
goal,
you
know
how
the
single
goal
tells
us
what
to
do.
So.
What
we're
trying
to
do
here
is
always,
you
know,
understand
that
context
hook
these
things
together
and
then
we
want
to
work
both
globally
and
in
our
various
regions
in
order
to
achieve
this
in
the
consistent
way
across
the
actions.
So
we
want
to
be
working
with
our.
B
So
there
are-
and
this
is
this-
is
what
I
call
the
what
and
how
diagram.
So
we
have,
in
the
middle
of
this
particular
things
we're
trying
to
we're
trying
to
connect
the
world
we're
trying
to
build
trust
in
the
internet,
we're
trying
to
improve
the
technical
security.
You
notice
that
these
things
are
mutually
supporting
right.
B
You
can
have
trust
in
the
internet
if
you're,
if
you
have
the
connectivity,
you
can't
very
well
trust
it
if
you
just
don't,
have
heavily
access
to
it
and
also
if
the
technical
security
is
is
improved
and,
of
course,
if
we
do
all
of
these
things,
then
that
shapes
the
the
future
of
the
Internet.
It
changes
the
outcomes,
but
what
we
do
is
not
the
only
thing,
because
there
are
lots
of
ways
that
you
could
do
this
right.
B
B
We
have
to
do
that
as
as
the
collaborative
thing
it's
a
collaborative
approach,
if
you
want
to
build
things
in
a
community,
you
can't
go
off
on
your
own
and
go
in
the
corner
and
do
things
yourself.
You've
got
to
do
it
with
everybody
else,
and
we
have
to
do
this.
We
have
to
do
this
with
a
strong
voice.
We
have
to
speak
plainly
and
clearly
about
what
it
is
that
we
think
has
to
happen.
So
we
can't
be.
You
know,
I'll
blow
mileage
about
how
you
know
what
the
outcomes
are.
B
We
really
need
to
talk
seriously
about
precisely
what
it
is
we
want
to
have
have
happened,
and
if
we
do
that,
then
we
build
those
twin
pillars
that
we've
talked
about
for
many
years
right.
The
access
part,
which
is
like
people,
have
access
to
the
Internet
and,
on
the
other
hand,
the
trust
do
they
believe
that
it's
it's
worth
doing,
I
think
it's
important
to
recognize
that
you
know
for
most
of
the
internet
society's
existence.
There
was
never
any
question.
If
you
ask
people,
do
you
want
access
to
the
Internet?
B
It
was
just
obviously
a
good
thing
and
people
are
starting
to
ask
themselves
whether
the
Internet's
really
such
you
know
such
a
hot
idea,
and
that
that's
terrifying
to
me,
because
the
truth
is
that
they're,
simply
forgetting
all
of
the
benefits
that
they
get.
That's
that's.
What's
really
going
on
right,
you
you
focus
on
the
negative
things
of
the
negative
circumstances
and
ignore.
B
You're
just
completely
dependent
on
this
tool
out.
We,
you
know
we
sort
of
can't
get
along
without
it
and
I
think
that
what
we
need
to
do
instead
is
face
the
difficulties
and
and
tackle
them
as
meaningful
as
meaningful
problems
that
we
could.
We
concur
together
if
we
worked
on
it
seriously.
Next,
please.
B
We're
going
to
refine
campaigns
this
year
to
focus
exclusively
on
on
what
right
exclusively
on
particular
concrete
goals
that
we
can
we
can
achieve
and
not
to
have
campaigns
around
styles
of
working
styles
of
working
are
the
way
we
carry
that
through
the
idea
of
course.
Obviously
this
the
goal
of
this
plan
is
to
tip
is
to
inform
the
budget
which
we're
going
to
talk
about
after
I.
Think
that
one
of
the
key
things
that
we
need
to
do
here
in
our
collaborative
approach
is
to
strengthen
our
ties
with
the
Internet
Society
community.
I.
B
Think
that
it's
important
to
remember
that
our
name
is
Internet
Society,
and
that
means
that
we,
you
know
we
reach
out
across
things.
It's
not
only
the
staff
of
the
Internet
Society,
but
we
are
in
many
ways
a
service
organization
to
the
whole
internet.
Now
that
doesn't
mean
that
you
know
we
launch
into
elaborate
consultations
with
everything
on
everything
we
do.
We
can't
do
that
because
that
doesn't
give
us
the
strong
voice
that
we
need
right.
B
So
what
we
have
to
do
is
have
a
clear
focus
and
we
have
to
collaborate
with
people
make
sure
that
people
are
not
surprised
by
our
message,
but
also
they
are
in
fact
part
of
our
community
they're,
going
to
be
people
who
would
like
us
to
be
quiet
on
issues
because
they're
inconvenient,
and
we
have
to
accept
that.
That's
not
actually
somebody
who's
part
of
our
community
they're.
You
know
they're
they're
playing
along
without
actually
being
in
so
we're
gonna,
restore
those
ties
and
make
sure
they're
strong.
B
Finally,
this
year
is
going
to
represent
some
changes,
because
you
know
initiatives
that
were
begun
last
year,
I
mean
naturally
right
if
you're
going
to
start
a
campaign
and
try
to
get
something
done.
Unfortunately,
the
world
does
not
arrange
itself
the
neat
annual
work
problems
right,
so
so
there's
a
bunch
of
things
that
are
extending
from
2018
that
we
will
start
to
wind
up
in
2019,
and
the
big
question
we
have
to
answer
is
okay.
B
What
do
we
do
next
in
order
to
further
further
our
goal,
and
so
we
have
to
have
a
systematic
way
of
fostering
those
things,
so
we
can
make
intelligent
decisions
about
what
we're
going
to
do
next
so
that
you
wouldn't
be
surprised
a
year
from
now
when
I
present
the
next
action
plan,
it
would
be
a
completely
natural
outgrowth
of
the
things
we've
done
this
year.
Next,
please
so
these
are
the
these
are.
Those
are
the
watchwords
that
we're
using
in
order
to
undertake
this
next,
please.
B
One
thing
that
we
learned-
and
this
was
this-
this
was
really
brought
home
to
me
when
we
had
our
all
staff
meeting.
I
will
confess
that
I
was
a
little
daunted
by
the
prospect
of
having
an
all
staff
meeting
three
weeks
into
my
tenure
as
the
CEO
and,
and
it
turned
out
to
work
a
little
better
than
I
expected
and
part
of
the
reason
it
worked
was
because
I
got
to
understand
what
what
everybody
thought
you
know.
B
Another
thing
that
I've
heard-
and
this
was
not
the
first
time
I'd
heard
it-
is
that
the
the
matrix
organization
at
the
Internet
Society
is
working
I
confess
that
this
was
a
complete
surprise
to
me,
every
single
place
that
I've
ever
gone,
where
somebody
said.
Oh,
we
have
a
matrix
to
approach
as
far
as
I
can
tell
the
organization
just
spent
all
of
its
time
talking
to
itself,
but
that
isn't
true
at
the
Internet
Society
people
are
really
using
this.
B
The
way
it's
supposed
to
work
that
they're
collaborating
across
pieces
of
the
organization
information
flow
is
finally
happening
so
that
it's
not
a
complete
mystery.
What's
going
on
in
some
region,
just
because
you're,
not
one
of
the
regional
bureaus
lease
doesn't
work
to
do
there,
I'm,
not
pretending
that
it's
all
puppy
dogs
and
rainbows,
but
we've
got
we've,
had
quite
a
bit
of,
but
really
good
luck,
but
we
do
have.
B
B
We
need
to
measure
things
not
because
that's
a
tool
by
which
we,
you
know
can
shake
our
fingers
at
people,
but
rather
because,
if
you
want
to
know
what
you
have
done
and
whether
you've
done
it
and
whether
you've
done
it
well,
you
have
to
measure
things
right
or
kelvins.
Dictum
tonight
here
is
to
know
so.
I
think
that
this
is
a.
This
is
a
really
important
thing
that
that
many
many
people
in
the
staff
response
have
responded
to
very
positively
and
I.
Think
that's
that's
a
great
sign.
B
Obviously
we
we
don't
need
to
fix
everything,
so
you
can't
you
know.
Sometimes
you
can
allow
perfect
to
be
the
enemy
of
the
good,
and
what
we're
gonna
do
here
is
just
you
know,
work
on
a
few
things,
try
to
make
those
things
better
and
then
work
on
the
next
things
and
try
to
make
those
things
better.
There's
no
there's
no
reason
to
give
up
just
because
you
can't
fix
everything
today.
B
B
Something
that
doesn't
work
out
perfectly
so
we're
gonna
have
to
accept
that
sometimes
we're
gonna
fail.
We're
gonna
fail
in
public.
That's
what
this
is
right,
we're
working
in
front
of
it,
everybody
if
we
say
we're
gonna,
do
something
and
it
doesn't
work
out.
That's
a
little
frightening
and
that's
okay,
it's
okay!
To
fail
and
I
think
that
this
is
a
message
that
I've
tried
to
send
in
the
action
plan
this
year,
so
that
people
understand
we
try
something
see
if
it
works
and
if
it
doesn't
work.
That's
also
information.
B
It's
one
of
the
important
things
about
about
trying
things
out
on
the
internet
right.
The
internet
didn't
get
where
it
is
by
trying
on
things
that
always
worked.
If
you
look
through,
for
instance,
the
RFC
series,
there
are
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
RFC's
that
have
been
published
that
are
just
uttered
trash
right.
Nobody,
nobody
implemented
them.
It
was
an
entire
replacement
of
the
who
is
four
times,
and
none
of
them
have
taken
off
on
so
I
think
that
you
know
that
that's
certainly
true.
It's
also
true
in
the
policy
realm
right.
Every
we
can.
B
D
You
a
break,
should
we
be
documenting
these
failures?
I
mean
I
completely
agree
that,
like
you,
need
to
go
out
there
and
try
things,
and
if
you
fail,
however,
good
or
bad
that
we
just
have
to
make
sure
that
we
document
them
as
well,
so
that
we
try
to
re
redo
it
again
to
make
sure
what
could
be
like
what
are
we
doing
differently.
C
E
E
B
There
was
a
really
interesting
thing
that
happened
in
years
ago,
where
ethnic
had
a
really
bad
day
in
dot
fr
because
of
a
DNS
SEC
failure
and
I
remember
happening
at
a
meeting
and
to
his
credit,
Stephan
books.
Meyer
got
up
at
the
microphone
and
went
through
like
bear
in
front
of
us
the
taxonomy
of
what
had
gone
wrong
like
the
night
before
and
it
was
it
was
inspiring.
B
It
really
was
because
what
we
learned
from
that
was,
oh,
you
know
this
is
a
this
is
this
is
a
thing
where
everybody
is
sort
of
feeling
their
way
in
the
dark.
There
are
some
things
that
we
tried.
You
can
see
why
they
were
good
ideas
and
you
can
see
now
what
they
were
bad
ideas
and-
and
that
is
that's
an
important,
an
important
thing
that
we
we
have
to
do.
We
need
to
be
exemplary
in
that
way,
right
that
we
need
to.
We
need
to
show
please.
B
So
the
the
key
thing
that
we're
gonna
work
on
here
are
these
connecting
the
world
building
trust
and
improving
the
technical
security.
It's
not
too
surprising
that
these
align
pretty
carefully
with
with
campaigns
that
we've
had
in
the
past,
but
the
other
thing
about
it
and
the
other
thing
about
the
campaign's
is
that
we've
emphasized
emphasize
the
campaign's
a
lot
in
2018,
and
then
we
emphasize
the
difference
between
the
campaign's
and
the
other
things
that
we
were
doing.
B
The
thing
is,
if
you
look
at
the
campaign's,
if
you
look
at
those
efforts,
they
really
are
efforts
to
do
one
of
these
things
and
they
fit
together
with
the
rest
of
the
work
that
we're
doing
so,
we're
either
trying
to
connect
people
like,
for
instance,
and
community
networks
stuff,
and
so
the
community
networks
efforts
fit
together
with,
for
instance,
our
ongoing
sort
of
maintenance
mode
efforts
in
IXPs
or
well
that'd.
Be
the
obvious
example
similar
to
build
trust
efforts
or
trying
to
secure
the
internet-of-things
there?
So
what
do
we?
You
know?
B
What
does
that
fit
with?
Well?
Actually,
that
is
not
unrelated
to
the
efforts
that
we've
had
around
say
TLS
or
around
unisex,
or
things
like
that.
It's
not
like
these
are
completely
separate
kind
of
problems
and
then,
of
course,
that
building
a
trust
links
up
with
the
technical
security
on
the
issue
or
again
strengthening
the
global
routing
system.
Okay,
manners
is
not.
You
know
something
that
you
do
certainly
not
for
its
own
sake
and
it's
not
something
that
that
we
would
do
in
isolation.
B
So
our
concerns
about,
for
instance,
securing
BGP
via
various
cryptographic
mechanisms
are
a
complimentary
effort
to
that
they're,
not
they're,
not
separate,
but
this
is
the
thing
we're
trying
to
do
right
now.
That's
the
place
where
we're
putting
the
most
effort,
and
so
you
can
you
can
see.
The
campaign's
is
just
a
logical
expression
of
these
large
on
areas
of
action.
Next,
please
next,
please
so
we're
continuing
to
to
work
on
on
connecting
the
world
we're
continuing
to
work
on
on
the
access
efforts
here.
B
The
the
the
the
community
networks
campaign
is
going
to
shift
a
little
bit
on
this
year.
We
continue
to
try
to
make
sure
that
the
economic
and
operational
or
technical
viability
of
the
community
networks
as
possible.
We
want
to
continue
to
influence
and
policy
and
regulatory
frameworks,
and
we
want
you
know,
obviously
to
continue
with
some
capacity
building
and
so
on.
These
are
all
things
that
are
presumably
very
familiar
from
last
year's
action
plan
X
please
so
we
continue
here.
B
I
mean
there's
this
sort
of
campaign
versus
programmatic
distinction,
but
I
think
that
you
will
you'll
hear
us
emphasize
less.
Oh,
this
is
a
campaign
versus
not
in
the
coming
year.
I
think
that
that
distinction
is
one
that's
more
internal
than
external.
Nobody
cares
whether
what
you're
doing
is
a
particular
campaign.
That's
not
something
that
anybody
else
cares
about.
That's
really
just
a
tool
for
us
to
organize
our
thinking
about
it,
so
we
continue
also
to
work,
of
course,
on
on
interconnection
and
peering.
B
B
Sorry,
this
analogy
is
dying
even
as
I
speak,
so
in
any
case,
the
idea
here
is
that
we
continue
on
in
this
effort.
Obviously
we
need
to
continue
just
just
as
a
as
an
organization
that
wants
to
speak
in
any
sense
about
the
internet.
We
have
to
go
and
continue
to
participate
in
network
operator
groups.
There's
no,
yet
you
know
that's
not
a
thing
that
is
optional.
That's
where
the
network
people
are
so
we
need
to
go
and
talk
to
them.
There
we
have
to
continue
to.
B
B
We
want
to
continue
working
on
these
sustainability
forums,
but,
of
course
we
want
to
make
them
sustainable
in
their
own
right.
So
after,
if
we've
already
begun
the
efforts
to
turn
that
into
a
into
a
standalone
and
independent
mechanism,
the
indigenous
connectivity
summit
or
community
summit
is
this
was
only
the
second
year
of
it,
but
it
was
quite
successful.
I
think
in
both
years
and
I
think
that
we
will
continue
to
see
that
build
up
and
gradually
turn
into
something
that
is
operate
much
more
by
the
community
than
by
us
right.
B
They
shouldn't
be
internet
society
initiatives.
They
should
be
society
initiatives
that
work
with
the
Internet
Society
as
as
one
of
the
contributors
and,
obviously
you
know
all
of
this
promotes
the
sustainable
development
goals,
but
you
know,
whereas
for
some
organizations
the
the
SDGs
are
are
the
end
in
themselves,
it
would
appear
if
you
look
at
their
materials
for
us
they're,
just
like
a
sort
of
byproduct
right
of
the
thing
that
we're
trying
to
do,
which
is
to
make
the
internet
for
everyone.
Next,
please.
B
B
Skip
the
title
slide
yeah,
you
were
right,
the
first
time
I
was
just
drinking
tea,
so
the
global
routing
system
continues
to
be
problematic.
This
is
a
this
is
a
weak
part
of
the
internet.
It's
always
been
a
weak
part
of
the
internet,
and
it
it
remains
something
that
we
really
need
to
do.
Something
about
manners
is.
B
It
is
an
effort
in
many
ways
to
promote
something
that
a
lot
of
people
on
the
internet,
eckle
community,
wonder
whether
it's
too
little
too
late,
but
actually
there
are
some
real
things
that
we
can
get
out
of
this,
and
the
thing
that
I'm
really
most
excited
about
is
the
is
the
launch
of
the
manners
Observatory.
So
that
is
coming
we're
we're
close
to
it,
not
sure
exactly
how
close,
but
if
you
want
to
know
the
details,
I'm
sure
salon
will
tell
us
lots
and
lots.
B
The
observatory
is
exciting
to
me,
because
it
allows
us
to
see,
allows
us
in
the
world
to
see
what
is
happening
on
the
internet.
What
is
happening
with
routing
this
and
I?
Don't
want
I,
don't
want
you
to
be
surprised
about
this.
It
will
allow
people
to
use
the
information
in
there
in
a
way
that
potentially
causes
changes
to
what
routing
happens
on
the
internet.
B
You
know
I
pointed
this
out
to
somebody
the
other
day,
who
was
quite
surprised
about
it.
So
I
want
everybody
to
be
crystal
clear
about
this.
Once
you
have
an
observatory.
That
means
there
observe
a
and
once
there
are
observations
in
it,
some
people
might
take
those
observations
and
make
and
draw
conclusions
that
we
don't
like,
including
I'm
gonna
drop,
that
network
over
there
I'm
gonna
stop
talking
to
them.
That
is
a
picture
that
is
a
possible
outcome
from
this.
B
We
believe
we,
the
Internet
Society,
everybody
who
believes
in
the
Internet
itself,
believe
that
the
self-interest
of
inter
Network
routing
is
a
thing
that
causes
the
Internet
to
grow
and
be
sustainable
right.
We
believe
in
that
technical
reality
that
the
Internet
has
one,
because
the
networking
technology
uses
greater
strength
than
any
centrally
managed
on
the
networking
system.
But
what
that
does
mean
is
that
you
have
to
be
able
to
trust
one
another.
B
B
If
the,
if
this
happens,
because
that's
an
important
feature,
it's
an
important
feature
that
we
ought
to
be
extraordinarily
proud
of,
because
this
is
the
kind
of
thing
that
the
internet
enables
it
allows
us
a
technical
community
of
a
policy
community
that
is
concerned
about
the
technical
reality
on
the
Internet.
It
allows
us
to
build
the
solutions
that
the
networks
can
can
implement
themselves
rather
than
attempting
to
do
it
from
the
outside.
B
This
is
a
consistent
problem
with
many
of
the
solutions
that
other
people
come
up
with
other
people
who
are
not
from
the
internet
community.
They
come
up
with
solutions
that
don't
look
like
the
Internet.
This
is
the
most
internet
e
way
that
you
can
do
this
so
I'm,
extraordinarily
proud
of
it
and
I.
Think
that
will
we'll
see
a
lot
of
advantages
from
this,
so.
C
C
G
Know
we're
checking
within
the
background,
but
this
is
indeed
a
collaboration
between
several
entities
that
already
do
measurements
of
Route
leaks,
routing
events.
We
collate
that
data
we
presented
in
a
way
that
is
relevant
for
manners
community,
so
the
manners
community
can
take
action
and
we
can
look
at
the
effectiveness
of
the
manners
program
itself.
Yeah.
C
E
Sorry
go
ahead,
yeah
this
this
kind
of
work
is
quite
quite
important
for
more
or
larger.
You
know
ite,
industry
and
community,
so
we
just
send
a
message.
We
are
expert
you're,
bowing
and
into
traffic.
Then
we're
doing
that
kind
of
work
so
as
all
upset
that
the
other
community
or
the
other
people
working
together
so
that
this
year
we're
focusing
on
this.
Then
this
is
quite
important
to
verify,
but
we
all
real
thing
happen
to
the
people
who
ignore
those
we
will
always
fighting
with
them.
B
So
I
think
you're
right
I
will
say
also
that
we
there
are
quite
a
few
contributors
to
this.
We
have
a
community
of
people
who
are
working
on
this.
The
fact
that
this
is
launching
is
also
exciting
people,
so
so
new
people
are
looking
at
it
and
saying
hey.
We
want
to
come
along
too,
and
that's
I
think
only
only
an
excellent
thing.
The
other
thing
about
it
and
Olaf
hinted
at
this.
B
But
if
you
look
in
the
action
plan,
one
of
the
things
we
say
is
this
allows
us
to
decide
whether
whether
the
this
kind
of
work
can
be
effective.
We
can
look
at
the
incidents
of
things
that
happen
on
the
internet
as
disclosed
through
this
Observatory
and
decide
whether
we're
actually
having
any
effect
whether
this
is
moving
the
needle
at
all.
That
also
is
an
important
thing
that
we
need
to
understand
whether
our
efforts
are
causing
the
outcomes
that
we
want.
B
H
Like
the
observatory,
I'm
just
curious,
if
some
not
like,
if
you
see
some
stuff
in
some
network,
we've
done
in
a
certain
way
and
that
network
happened
to
be
under
certain
national
political
control
and
as
a
result,
you
try
and
you
know,
do
whatever
I
think
you
want
to
do.
Do
you
think
that
could
have
a
boomerang
effect
on
something
I
mean
I'm,
just
it's
a
scenario
that
you
know
I.
You
know
I
just
thinking
through
right
now,
sir.
G
Yep
yeah,
so
this
is
a
transparency
tool
for
a
broader
community
and
the
Internet
Society
doesn't
touch
showers.
It's
other
people
in
the
routing
community
that
touch
routers
and
if
there
is
very
bad
behavior
of
grout
leaks
or
now
diversions
and
the
community
says
it's
enough
of
it,
then
I
don't
think
that
I
that
will
have
effect
specifically,
if
that
is
in
that
work,
that
is
on
the
government
government
control.
E
Also,
we
can
realize
that
we
can
help
the
operators
who
are
working
in
such
a
countries
because
of
the
neutral
on
transparent
data.
Then
we
can.
We
can
start
to
work
with
them.
You
know,
implicitly,
very
smartly,
without
any
conviction
with
the
government
policies
despite
important,
we
are
very
neutral,
very
transient
and
spirit
keeping.
We
basically
know
those
policy.
B
Well,
the
observatory
is,
is,
is
less
about
the
rpki
and
much
more
about
really
BC
p38
style.
You
know
road
controls,
but
it's
nice
that
you
ask
that
because
of
course
we
flip
the
slide
and
there
remain
other
efforts
that
we
need
to
undertake
and
among
these
are
various
PGP
security
effort.
So
we
need
to
continue
working
on
on
those
other
issues
as
well.
In
order
to
improve
the
technical
security
programs.
I
see
what
off
wants
to
say
something
morning.
Yes,.
G
One
of
the
actions
in
the
in
but
one
of
the
actions
in
manages
to
help
promote
verification
methods.
We
were
technology
neutral
in
the
phrasing
of
those
actions,
but
obviously
the
intent
of
that
wording
is
supporting
of
RTI
and
DGP
say
whatever
technology
comes
in
to
to
increase
routing
the
Arctic.
Ii
is
definitely
something
that
we
are
interested
in
discussing
among
our
community
and
conversations
are
going
on
with
some
of
ours
that
are
promoting
our
PPI.
Some
other
are.
Ours
are
a
little
bit
less
further
down
the
world.
B
I
think,
though,
there
is
the
support
thing
that
we're
not
here
to
promote
a
particular
technology
or
technique,
or
anything
like
that,
we're
here
to
try
to
try
to
move
an
outcome,
and
that's
that's
the
thing
that
we're
we're
aiming
to
to
achieve,
and
that's
why
all
of
these
things
are
listed
here
like
that,
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
achieve
certain
kinds
of
outcomes.
Some
of
these
are
techniques
like,
for
instance,
the
time
synchronization
stuff.
The
improvement
of
that
on
this
is
this
is
part
of
the
reason
I
want
to
highlight
this.
B
One
is
because
there
are
some
things
on
the
internet
that
very
few
people
have
a
direct
interest
in
in
promoting
themselves,
in
particular,
there's
essentially
no
business
case
in
time.
Synchronization
right,
there's
nothing,
nobody,
nobody
sells
the
time,
synchronization
stuff,
that's
not
a
product,
and
yet
literally,
every
cryptographic
system
in
the
world
depends
upon
tests.
B
So
it's
kind
of
important
that
we
have
reliable
and
secure
time
synchronization,
and
so
this
is
the
kind
of
thing
that
really
only
the
Internet
Society
is
is
really
equipped
to
do,
and
so
that's
part
of
the
reason
that
we
continue
to
do
those
things
anyway.
The
rest
of
those
things
I
won't
go
through
them
one
at
a
time.
Next,
please.
B
This
is
a
campaign
that
has
had
a
little
bit
of
a
slower
start
this
year,
although
there's
been
some
success
there,
so
we
believe
that
this
is
going
to
continue
continue
being
successful
this
year,
but
we
have
some
some
concrete
goals
that
we're
going
to
set
for
this,
so
that
we
can
sort
of
make
a
hard-nose
determination
next
time
around
on.
So
it
appears
that
we
have
well.
B
B
This
is
not
a
huge
move
in
the
in
the
market,
and
yet,
if
we
could
get
five
manufacturers
with
10%
of
their
market
segment,
I
believe
that
there
is
a
potential
there
actually
to
move
a
market.
If
you
can
get,
if
you
can
get
five
manufacturers
and
they've
got
10%
of
their
market
segment.
That's
a
dip
market
differentiator,
and
it's
big
enough
in
the
market
that
it
actually
could
start
to
move
things.
This
is,
admittedly,
not
a
hugely
aggressive
goal,
but
it's
still
a
goal,
but
I
think
you
know
we
can
we
can
undertake.
B
We
do
have
our
memorandum
of
understanding,
consumers
international,
and
that
gives
us
a
path
into
an
area
that
we
you
know,
let's
face
it
we're
not
naturally
good
at
sort
of
end-user
devices.
I,
don't
know
if
you've
noticed,
but
like
some
of
the
internet
society,
people
are
geeks
and
maybe
maybe
user
interfaces
is
not.
You
know
the
first
thing
that
comes
springs
to
your
mind
when
you
think
of
that.
B
B
Therefore,
you
know
it's
in
partnership
with
somebody
who
can
actually
reach
those
consumers
in
the
way
that
traditionally
we
can
so
I
think
that
we
we
hope
that
this
is
going
to
be
successful.
We
have
had
some
success
with
policy
makers
or
gonna
continue
to
work
on
that
next,
please,
and
once
again,
this
is
part
of
a
wider
array
of
efforts
that
we
make
in
order
to
build
trust.
So
we
have
all
of
these
partnerships
that
we're
we're
working
on.
B
That's
always
a
very
difficult
thing
to
measure
and
I
think
that
this
is
one
of
the
problems
that
that
we
have,
that
you
know
being
effective
in
the
world
sometimes
requires
that
you,
you
know
just
kind
of
hang
around
with
people
and
you
know
be
friendly
with
them
and
so
on,
and
then
the
question
is
well.
How
do
you
measure
the
effectiveness
of
that
we're
still
struggling
with
this?
A
little
bit.
I
think
that
this
is
one
of
the
areas
that
we're
going
to
work
on.
You
know
precisely.
B
The
OTA
community
continues
to
be
an
area
where
we're
attempting
to
work,
and
we've
got
some
some
examples
of
stuff
that
we've
been
successful
with
it,
so
that
you
know
we
want
to
continue
to
work
on
it
on
the
OTA
community.
You
know
could
maybe
learn
some
some
things
from
the
quite
success.
Quite
successful
story.
We
have
to
tell
around
ng
as
that's,
which
is
continues
to
be
a
very
successful
conference
and
we're
very
proud
that
it
has
an
open,
publication
history,
so
we're
going
to
continue
to
press
with
that.
Similarly,
we've
got
on.
B
We've
got
the
global
Commission
on
security
and
cyberspace,
and
and
that
that
continued
development
of
those
norms
is,
we
hope
we
hope
it's
useful.
The
goal
here,
of
course,
is
to
speak
out
in
favor
I
mean
it
says
here,
I'm
just
be
good
against
Internet
shutdowns,
and
this
is
correct,
but
the
point
here
is
not
actually
to
pay
attention
to
the
the
political
situation
there.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
defend
the
internet.
B
We
want
to
defend
the
the
network
in
its
own
terms
to
say
this
is
a
tool
that
depends
on
a
certain
kind
of
trust.
It
depends
on
all
of
the
networks
working
together
and,
if
you
don't
have
those
networks
working
together,
you
don't
have
the
Internet
at
all.
This
isn't
some
political
choice
that
you
can
make
where
you're
going
to
have
multiple
networks.
Networking
together,
if
you
don't
have
that
kind
of
internet
working,
you
don't
have
an
internet
at
all.
B
B
B
B
We
have
a
whole
bunch
of
we
have
a
whole
bunch
of
questions,
but
what
these
emerging
technologies
do?
We
have
a
global
internet
report
that
is
going
to
come
out
this
year.
That
has
more
questions
than
answers
in
it
and
the
reason
it
does
is
because
the
topic,
which
is
consolidation
and
concentration
on
the
Internet,
turns
out
to
be
much
harder
than
and
and
then
even
we
thought
when
we
started,
and
so
the
natural
thing
to
do
is
to
say
look.
B
This
is
a
this
is
a
report
that
sets
up
a
bunch
of
questions
that
we
have
to
answer,
and
there
are.
There
are
serious
problems
having
to
do
with
the
way
the
internet
interacts
with
the
rest
of
the
rest
of
the
universe,
right
with
the
social
reality,
the
economic
realities
and
so
on,
and
we
need
actually
to
be
able
to
say
something
about
that
coherently,
because
if
we
don't,
nobody
will,
and
so
this
is.
B
This
is
the
kind
of
thing
that
we're
going
to
be
doing
in
the
in
the
shaping
the
future
of
the
Internet
efforts
this
year.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
narrow
down
precisely
what
it
is
that
we
are
going
to
be
able
to
talk
about,
but
I
think
that
what
you
will
see
is
a
gradual
sharpening
of
a
number
of
topics,
and
you
should
expect
throughout
the
year.
You
should
expect
regular
reports
on
things
that
we're
uncovering
and
how
these
become
praat
on
how
these
become
areas
of
focus
in
the
future.
Next,
please.
B
So
we
we
have
a
bunch
of
a
bunch
of
emerging
technologies
that
we,
you
know
we
obviously
have
to
look
at
when
these
things
come
out.
If
there
are
opportunities
that
directly
aligned
with
our
mission,
you
know
perhaps
that
perhaps
there
are
some
some
little
investments
that
we
can
make
in
trying
to
move
things
along,
but
this
is
not
an
area
you
know
where
we
want
to
become
angel
investors
or
anything
like
that.
So
just
to
the
Lord
understands
that
that's
not
our
plan.
Next,
please.
B
So
I
said
earlier
that
we
want
to
distinguish
between
the
what
we
do
and
how
we
do
it,
but
how
we
do
things
is
not
is
not
some
sort
of
secondary
on
part
of
it.
It's
a
key
part
of
the
thing
that
we're
doing
we're
gonna
continue
to
work
on
the
multi-stakeholder
model.
Obviously
we're
gonna
continue
to
promote
the
work
of
the
IETF.
We
want
to
continue
to
work
on
this.
Another
thing
we're
going
to
focus
on
quite
strongly
this
year
is
IGF
reform.
B
We
want
that
to
be
a
success
and
we
want
that
to
be
a
success
for
the
whole
internet.
We
don't
want
it
to
be
a
thing
where
you
know
we're
dropping
off
an
activity
forever
without
any
obvious
outcome.
One
of
the
things
that's
really
interesting
about
the
IGF
is
that
it's
a
place
where
all
these
people
get
together
and
they
you
know
talk
about.
You
know
what
the
issues
are
in
salon
and
then
things
kind
of
don't
happen,
and
then
people
have
another.
B
You
know
year
to
think
about
it,
and
then
they
come
back
and
they
talked
about
how
it
hasn't
moved
again.
The
internet
did
not
get
deployed
because
people
decided
to
talk
about
how
many
problems
there
were
in
the
way,
and
one
of
the
things
that's
interesting
is
that
the
IGF
hasn't
somehow
fostered
a
community
such
that
people
come
away
from
that
and
say
all
right.
Five
of
us
really
care
about
this.
Why
don't
we
go
away
work
on
it,
a
little
bit
on
and
and
I?
Don't
exactly
know
why?
B
But
I'm
hopeful
that
maybe
we
can,
you
know
rejuvenate
some
of
that
spirit
of
the
internet,
so
that
people
will
come
in
and
say
all
right,
we're
interested
in
this
we're
gonna
work
on
it.
Next,
please,
on
our
community,
depending
on
whom
you
ask.
Either
we
have
a
really
strong
community
and
everything's
jim-dandy,
or
we
have,
you
know,
neglected
our
chapters
so
that
they're,
you
know
poor
stepchildren,
who
are
you
know,
left
like
Cinderella
to
clean
out
the
the
ashes
in
the
fireplace
or
you
know
some
something
somewhere
in
between
I
think.
B
But
we
we
do
have
a
responsibility
to
make
sure
that
the
wider
community
understands
the
Internet
Society
as
the
premiere
place
to
come
together
to
work
on
these
problems
and
I
think
that
we
need
to
respond
to
that.
You
know
really
really
well
so
there's
the
remain.
You
know
a
number
of
opportunities
in
this
area,
the
chapters
Advisory
Council.
You
just
heard
yesterday
some
discussion
about
that
on.
We
obviously
have
some
some
improvement
of
the
links
that
we
could
make
with
our
chapters.
B
Next,
please
we're
gonna,
re-envision,
inter-community
I
think
you've
already
heard
about
that,
but
we
have
also
a
number
of
of
activities
that
we've
undertaken
here,
that
we
want
to
make
sure
you
know
continue
to
get
the
attention
and
respect
that
they
deserve.
The
Internet
Hall
of
Fame
recognizes
people
who
have
made
significant
contributions,
and
we
don't
want
to
forget
that
the
Internet
is,
you
know,
continuing
to
grow.
B
How
accurately
it
reflects
the
people
who
are
really
important
in
a
given
location,
sort
of
depends
on
which
location
you
happen
to
be
in.
So
there
are
some
people
who
feel
that
you
know
we
have
failed
to
recognize
all
of
the
people
who
you
know
who
are
most
effective
in
a
given
region.
There
may
be
some
tweaks
we
could
make
to
the
program
in
order
to
make
that
a
little
bit
easier,
because
right
there's
the
limit
on
how
many
people
come
in
in
the
year
and
people.
B
Sometimes
you
know
they
do
a
lot
of
work
to
nominate
somebody
in
one
year
I'm.
All
of
that
work
needs
to
be
repeated
in
the
future.
If
you
want
to
nominate
again-
and
you
know-
maybe
maybe
there
are
some
ways
that
we
could
make-
that
a
little
bit
easier
in
order
to
recognize
people
who
did
make
significant
contributions,
but
who
didn't
get
picked
in
a
given
year?
Obviously,
the
Postell
award
is
important
to
us
and
we'll
continue
to
work
with
that,
and
we
want
to
continue
with
our
youth
engagement
next,
please.
B
We
can't
not.
We
can't
do
any
of
this.
If
we
don't
speak
clearly,
if
we
don't
speak,
we
don't
take
positions
that
are
sometimes
perhaps
a
little
bit
uncomfortable
for
people.
There
are
consequences
to
what
people
are
trying
to
be
to
the
internet
or
the
internet
and
for
all
of
us.
At
the
same
time,
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
don't
blur
our
mess
by
by
turning
what
it
is
that
we're
concerned
with
into
the
message
of
somebody
else.
B
So,
for
instance,
when
we
work
with
other
partners
on
on
keeping
the
internet
on,
we
will
work
against
Internet
shutdowns.
Obviously
some
of
them
are
going
to
be
concerned
about
the
free
speech,
aspects
of
that
or
the
consequences
for
dissidents
within
countries
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
But
that's
not
our
problem.
Our
problem
is
very
simple.
B
If
you
turn
off
the
internet
with
any
regularity
in
your
jurisdiction
very
quickly,
you
don't
have
the
internet
at
all,
because
people
don't
believe
that
the
internet
works
there
anymore,
and
so
then
they
stop
using
it
and
you
lose
the
benefits
of
the
Internet.
That's
the
thing
that
we
bring
to
this
conversation.
We
bring
the
ability
to
point
out
that
the
network
itself
becomes
more
valuable,
the
more
network
it
provides
and
it
becomes
more
valuable.
Whatever
your
ends
are
that
we
can
perhaps
agree
or
disagree
with
the
particular
outcomes
that
you
are
trying
to
achieve.
B
But
what
we
can
offer
is
some
understanding
how
this
tool
works
and
what
benefits
are
now.
There
are
going
to
be
people
in
the
world
who
reject
this
tool,
they're
going
to
be
people
who
say
we
don't
want
it
and
we
need
to
be
clear.
Okay,
we
can't
make
it
connect.
We
can't
make
you
want
this.
If
you
don't
want
to
be
connected
to
the
Internet
you
get
to
do
that.
B
That's
not
a
comfortable
feeling,
however,
to
say
well,
there
are
gonna,
be
some
people
who
just
don't
want
to
be
connected
there
going
to
be
some
governments
who
are
not
really
allowing
their
country
to
be
on
the
Internet
and
I.
Think
that
we
need
to
be
crystal
clear
about
that.
We
need
to
be
able
to
stay.
Ok,
I
can't
help
you.
B
If
you
don't
want
this,
this
tool,
I
can
maybe
help
you
with
some
things,
though,
for
instance
you're
going
to
use
something
like
this
tool
within
your
within
your
country,
and
you
want
to
learn
a
little
bit
about
how
to
connect
your
remote
communities.
You
want
to
learn
a
little
bit
about
how
to
come,
connect
places
that
are
not
commercially
viable,
hey.
We
can
help
you
with
community
networks
along
those
lines,
because
what
we're
doing
is
we're
building
the
networking
functions
that
are
necessary
for
the
future.
B
You
know
taking
advantage
the
internet
itself,
so
those
are
the
kinds
of
things
that
I
expect
us
to
to
focus
on
in
the
upcoming
year.
Next,
please
next,
please
so
we're
trying
very
hard
to
focus
on
these
topics,
we're
trying
to
keep
our
focus
on
narrow
so
that
we
don't
we
don't
diffuse
ourselves.
Obviously,
we
want
to
align
our
resources
according
to
that,
we
also
need
to
be
a
somewhat
more
agile
organization.
B
It
is
sometimes
been
observed
to
me
that
the
Internet
Society
doesn't
always
move
as
quickly
as
it
might,
and
you
know
we're
only
a
hundred
and
twenty
ish
people
we're
really
not
that
big
an
organization
we
ought
to
be
able
to
move
quite
quickly,
and
so
I
think
that
this
is
an
area
of
some
focus
for
us
this
year.
Next,
please.
B
The
one
of
the
things
that
we
really
want
to
do
here
is
make
sure
that
our
our
community
involved
in
all
of
the
things
that
we
do
so
it
has
become
a
very
important
part
of
every
trip
that
I
take,
for
instance,
that
we
make
sure
we
have
community
interactions
during
that.
I
think
that
this
is
a
super
important
point
on.
We
also
want
to
make
sure
that
our
relationship
with
the
civil
society
allows
us
to
to
align
where
we
have
shared
or
complementary
interests
and
priorities.
B
B
That's
why
you
see
the
poi
360
here
is
one
of
the
things
because
courts
we
have.
We
have
this
tradition,
but
the
technical
fellows,
and
indeed
fellowships
generally
are
also
an
area
where
we
think
we
maybe
have
not
been
as
effective
as
as
we
might
have
been.
The
there's
already
been
a
number
of
changes
to
those
programs
in
an
effort
to
make
them
more
effective,
but
I
think
that
you
know,
with
an
increased
emphasis
on
measurement,
we
can
do
an
even
better
job.
Next,
please.
B
Now,
the
foundation-
this
has
been
a
topic
that
people,
in
fact
only
yesterday.
Somebody
asked
me
about
this.
How
come
you
keep
talking
about
this
important
meeting
than
never
anywhere
else,
so
the
foundation
is
going
to
go,
live
we're
going
to
start
talking
about
it
right
after
this
meeting.
Indeed,
there
are
messages.
You've
already
seen
the
communications
plan
around
this,
so
that
is
coming
into
effect
now
on,
assuming,
of
course,
that
you
approved
the
budgets
that
we
have
lined
up
for
this,
and
you
approve
our
operational
plans
that
that
that
is
what
our
goal
is.
B
B
This
is
not
the
kind
of
meeting
that
we
do
all
the
time,
obviously,
because
it's
it's
a
little
bit
spendy
to
take
everybody
to
one
place,
yes,
but
it.
It's
also
true
that
you
know
getting
a
worldwide
group
of
people
all
pulling
together
in
one
direction,
sometimes
requires
that
you
get
them
together
and
get
them
to
appreciate
one
another.
The
reason,
of
course,
that
we
are
all
here
and
what
room
together
right
now
is
to
increase.
That
kind
of
you
know,
trust
and
high
bandwidth,
communication
and
so
on.
B
A
A
The
why
so
I
like
that
I
have
like
four
quick
points
to
kind
of
not
important
and
to
somewhat
more
important,
so
the
first
one
is
like
I
made
exactly
that
comment
when
Cathy
proposed
a
matrix
organization,
the
first
time
I
I
said
you
know:
I've
been
working
myself
in
months,
which
orientation
I've
never
seen
them
working.
So
I'm
really
happy
that
this
is,
you
know,
working
you
know
for
you
guys,
so
so
that's
really
good.
A
The
second
one
is
that
when
you
talk
about
failure,
I
was
getting
worried
like
people
got
very
fired
up
about
that.
I
think
that,
in
the
way
we
have
like
articulated,
that
is
more
like,
like
leaning,
startapp
type
of
thing,
so
focusing
on
their
learning,
as
opposed
to
to
failing,
but
obviously
I
mean
you
need
to
fail
to
learn.
I
mean
as
long
as
as
we
focus
on
on
the
learning
part,
it's
completely
natural
and
necessary
actually
to
fail.
So
those
were
their
none
important
point.
The
two
somewhat
important
at
first
did
the
scope.
A
You
were
touching
on
that
with
them
in
the
shape
in
the
future,
part,
I,
think
and
and
I.
Think
that's.
We
have
been
talking
about
that.
A
lot
and
I
think
it's
important
like
that
slide,
for
example,
and
as
I
said,
we
have
discussed
that
already.
But
it
has
things
like
you
know:
artificial
intelligence
like
self-driven
cars,
which
you
know
have
actually
very
little
to
do
with
the
internet.
You
know
they
have
to
do
with
computers
and
with
neural
networks
and
stuff
like
that,
but
is
not
really
with
the
internet.
A
We
may
want
to
include
that
in
the
scope
right
and
say
that
this
is
for
some
reason
relevant
to
what
we
do
or
we
may
want
to
say
this
is
out
of
scope,
but
in
any
case,
I
would
like
to
kind
of
make
an
explicit
decision
at
some
point.
So
this
is
something
I
would
urge
you
to
to
discuss
with
you
know
your
leadership
team
and
everything
so
that
we
define
clearly
you
know
the
scope
and
what
you
need
on
what's
outside.
So.
B
B
So
so,
if
if,
for
instance,
the
network
became
an
intrinsic
part
of
an
artificial
intelligence
system
like
you
couldn't
do
it
without
having
the
internet,
which
is
true
in
some
cases
right,
there
are
certain
kinds
of
artificial
intelligence
applications
that
just
depend
on
having
internet
worked
on
sensors
and
all
the
rest
of
it,
and
in
that
case,
actually
the
consequences
of
the
Internet.
What
what
would
we
say
about
that?
B
Well,
if
you
have
internet
shutdowns,
for
instance,
then
AI
is
negatively
affected,
because
you
don't
have
this
facility
to
do
this
and
so
on,
but
and
similarly,
if
we
start
to
have
AI
applications
that
affect
the
internet.
That
said
you
know,
for
instance,
we
start
how
having
a
are
I
routing
decisions
where
we,
where
we
deploy
that
on
the
internet?
B
That
is
something
that
maybe
we
have
something
to
say
about,
but
AI
systems
in
general,
like
you
know,
robots
wandering
around
the
room
and
everything
like
that
or
like
what
you
know
do
robots
have
human
rights.
I
noticed
that
the
ITU
last
week
there
was
this
big
noise
about
how
Saudi
gave
their
human
rights
to
a
robot
on
I.
A
A
Think
that
discussion
was
actually
that
they,
they
Android
or
the
robot,
had
more
rights
than
women,
so
it
was
kind
of
like
interesting,
interesting
discussion
there.
It
was
kind
of
interesting
that
anyway,
I
yeah
I
know
I'm.
You
and
I
are
on
the
same
page,
but
I
think
we
need
to
communicate,
and
these
two
people
and
yeah
the
typical
you
know
I
mean
management
orchestration
of
the
network
by
a
is
this
is
happening
everywhere
and
I
mean
I
would
agree
that
that
super
relevant
anyway.
A
A
Why
you
would
to
do
that,
but
but
not
really
driving
a
political
agenda
that
it
would
kind
of
defeat
our
strategy
to
be
a
you
know,
welcome
partner
in
the
in
the
conversations
you
know
in
different
for
us,
regardless
of
what
our
personal
political
views
are.
So
those
were
like
my
four
quicken
points,
only
on
the
action
plan
and
now
I
will
be
the
Q.
So
it's
like
walid,
were
you
in
know
so
well,
heed
Olga,.
C
H
Thank
you.
Andrew
looks
like
a
very
well
defined
plan
ahead,
and
maybe
this
is
an
opportunity
to
reflect
on
some
of
the
overarching
themes
we've
discussed
in
previous
meetings
Cathy
before
one
of
them
that
still
lingers
today
is
the
question
of
branding
and
the
notion
of
value.
How
do
members
feel
the
membership
itself
is
available
to
them?
That's
a
more
open
question.
B
In
your
chef,
nothing
in
my
professional
experience
is
ever
produced
as
strong
bonds
as
working
on
a
product
and
shipping
it
out
the
door
and
I
feel
very
strongly
that
when
we
do
these
things
with
our
members
with
our
organizational
members
when
we
get
them
together
and
produce
good
stuff,
that's
when
we
get
the
be
the
big
bounce
and
I
think
that
that,
in
fact,
the
presentation
from
the
from
Mena
Bureau
yesterday
showed
this
very
nicely
right.
What
do
they
do?
B
They
go
and
they
have
some
workshops,
and
some
of
those
workshops
are
on
topics
that
are
kind
of
ancillary
to
us
right.
There's
some
blockchain
stuff
there,
for
instance,
that
it's
not
exactly
in
the
middle
of
our
part
of
our
wheelhouse.
But
what
we're
doing
is
we're
bringing
people
together
and
having
some
success
with
them,
and
what
that
does
is
it
creates?
You
know
a
positive
feedback
that
causes
people
to
be
more
aware
of,
so
that
to
me
is
is
where
we
have
to
do
that.
H
The
other
quick
quickly
point
quickly
is
when
mentioning
the
pillars.
The
is
one
of
the
main
pillars.
Obviously,
is
the
building
trust
aspect,
and
apart
from
connecting
the
world
shaping
the
future
technical
security,
these
things
are
can
be
done
on
the
side
of
the
community.
Ever
sorry,
the
ones
around
the
internet,
building
the
internet,
but
Trust
is
the
only
thing
that
is
only
reflected
by
the
user
by
the
end-user.
We
can't
decide
for
them,
but
they
trust
or
not.
H
So
there
was
this
interesting
at
TED
talk
I,
raised
before
by
Anora
I'll
nail
about
the
idea
that
there's
it's
stupid
to
ask
about
what
is
trusted
it's
possible
to
ask
about
what
is
trustworthy,
because
in
that
sense
you
don't
need
to
go
in
every
single
person.
As
do
you
trust
this
guide,
you
trust
because
it's
a
subjective
thing.
That
brings
me
to
the
forum
if
we
are
to
go
into
measure,
because
we've
mentioned
the
idea
of
measuring
and
I
like
that
tremendously
empirically
measuring
whether
we
have
achieved
certain
things.
Would
we
ask?
B
Without
starting
down
a
social
science
disquisition
here
right,
the
asking
people
to
determine
the
difference
between
what
they
think
is
trustworthy
and
what
they
personally
trust
is
going
to
be
a
difficult
thing
to
do.
But
what
we
could
do
is
actually,
you
know,
observe
in
the
world
what
do
people?
How
do
people
react
to
this
system
and
I
think
that
that
tells
us
something
about
what
they
think
is
trustworthy,
because
when
people
use
a
thing
because
they
appear
to
believe
in
it
regularly
right
I
mean
there
is.
B
If
you
ask
people,
do
you
trust
your
bank
yeah
some,
some
of
them
might
say
yes,
but
lots
of
people
you
know:
do
you
trust
you
trust,
Visa,
I,
think
that
a
lot
of
people
be
like?
No,
not
really.
Those
people
are
kind
of.
You
know
like
they're,
taking
the
money
from
my
pocket
about
that,
and
if
you
observe
what
happens
in
the
world,
well,
people
are
using
Visa
all
the
time
that
tells
us
that
they
think
it's
trustworthy.
B
Some
really
important
sense
and
I
think
that
that's
the
kind
of
outcome
kind
of
thing
that
we
need
to
build.
We
need
to
build
those
kinds
of
measures
in
order
to
understand.
Okay.
What
we
can
tell
today
is
that
people
become
fearful
of
the
internet.
They
think
they've
started
to
think
that
it's
not
trustworthy
and
what
we
need
to
do
is
figure
out.
How
do
we
measure
when
that,
when
we
turn
that
corner?
Assuming
that
we
manage
to
turn.
J
You
thank
you
very
much
hungry,
very,
very
interesting
and
good
presentation.
I
like
very
much
the
concrete
actions
that
you
proposed.
I
think
this
is
towards
the
branding
thing.
We
need
to
be
recognized
for
concrete
outcomes
to
the
community,
for
example,
the
observatory
and
approach
to
the
IOT
manufacturers.
I.
Think
that's
a
great
thing
about
the
IGF
I
totally
agree
with
you.
I
think
the
technical
community
has
a
role
in
the
mag.
That's
the
corner
point
of
it.
J
J
I
saw
them
yesterday,
night
I
encourage
you
to
see
them
and
to
vote
for
for
the
ones
that
was
a
that
was
fun
from
staff
member
from
Latin
America
and
if
it's
worldwide
now
it's
I
think
it's
very
successful
and
I
think
we
I
played
into
into
that
list,
and
perhaps
you
mentioned
in
the
regional
bureaus
and
more
collaborative
approach
from
the
staff
in
the
regional
growth
with
the
individual
chapters
and
organizations
as
a
whole.
That's
assumed
rightly
mentioned
I
think
that
that
can
be
perhaps
improved
a
little
bit.
Thank
you
very
much.
F
Thank
You
Olga
pepper,
you're
next
yeah
a
couple
of
quick
thanks
again,
like
everybody
else,
I
thought
it
was
actually
very
to-the-point,
concise
and
actually
it's
a
great
two
things
and
again
for
later
discussion.
Offline,
I
really
think
I
really
like
the
way
you
frame
the
shaping
the
future.
The
internet
slide
and
talked
about
what's
in
what's
out
right
and
we
do
get
confused
but-
and
maybe
I'm
just
really
focused
on
that
because
of
the
last
two
weeks
of
super
fuzzy
discussion
at
the
ITU
of.
F
What's
in,
what's
out
or
what's
not
out,
nothing
is
out.
Everything
is
in
and
it's
about
so
actually,
both
by
example,
but
also
being
able
to
figure
that
out.
I
think
will
help
if
we
can
figure
it
out
for
ourselves.
It'll
help
us
address
that
and
try
to
put
some
of
those
things
in
the
box
which
have
to
be
put
in.
C
F
And
that's
another
longer
conversation.
Maybe
we
can
start
over
lunch
or
dinner
or
something
and
then
continue
in
that
very
very
briefly,
on
IGF
and
again
for
offline
I,
actually
I
think
there's
a
piece
of
the
actual
work
plans
that
come
out
of
that.
That
is,
actually
you
were
making
the
entity
went
back
to
the
analogy
of
the
internet
approach
of
making
things
happen,
I
think.
Actually
that
does
but
it's
the
spin-offs
called
dynamic
coalition's
and
you
know
having
been
involved
in
a
number
of
those.
Those
are
very
much
like
an
idea.
F
F
So
one
of
the
ways
for
us
to
engage
at
IGF
is
to
actually
take
some
of
those
ideas
that
are
seem
amorphous
and
then
focus
them,
and
we
can
even
orchestrate
or
be
a
catalyst
for
dynamic
coalition's
in
which
I
sock
can
lead
and
actually
result
in
outcomes
that
spin
out
in
real
activity.
So
I
just
and
look
to
have
that
conversation
because
it's
you
know
kind
of
concrete,
pragmatic
way
to
go
forward.
K
K
A
Think
I
mean
let's
Peter
point
is
really
good
and
we
have
to
stretch
it
like.
We
can
promise.
We
will
not
shoot.
The
messenger
I
think
is
tempted
to
you
know,
manage
information
upwards,
whether
it's
your
top
management
or
the
board
or
anything
and
in
the
short
term
may
may
think.
I
know
a
good
idea
in
the
long
term
is
just
a
disaster
for
any
organization.
So
having
an
open
dialogue
with
you
know,
as
we
said,
focus
on
learning
these
fail.
A
I
B
It
could
be
that
we
have
specific
kind
of
mega
trends
that
are
just
a
changed
environment
and
we
need
to
adapt
our
plans
to
it.
It
might
be
that
we've
got
facts
of
the
world.
It
might
be
that
the
Internet
has
changed.
For
instance,
you
know
we
have
the
this
paper
that
we've
relied
on
for
a
long
time
of
with
the
Internet
in
variants.
Maybe
some
of
them
are
wrong.
B
I
mean
that's
an
empirical
question
that
we
need
to
answer,
and
so
the
the
short
answer
is
that
we
won't
know
until
we
get
there,
but
it's
pretty
clear
that
we
we
need
to
take
this
input
seriously
and
then
try
to
figure
out
what
the
next
steps
are.
Don't
promise
that
it
will
be
fun,
I
promise
it
will
be
interesting,
I.
I
Think
we'll
catch
that
train
and
has
already
left
the
station.
I
think
the
last
thing
I
would
say
the
AI-
and
we
mentioned
about
it
by
my
fear-
is
that
AI
is
going
to
become
the
cinnamon
synonym
of
the
internet,
of
automation,
of
all
the
things
that
are
happening
online,
that
country's
buying
technology
from
one
big
country,
I
mean
by
cheaper
AI
technologies
and
just
equated
with
the
internet,
access
and
social
trade
systems
and
whatever
you
need
to
run
the
infrastructure.
I
So
I
think
it's
necessarily
important
to
you
know,
make
these
distinctions
yet
I
also
see
a
very
huge
uphill
struggle
there.
You
know
teaching
the
the
users
how
to
do
that
so
I'm
happy
there
gonna
be
some
efforts
undertaken
and,
and
lastly,
I
think,
the
growing
of
the
important
thing
that
we
sometimes
don't
talk
about.
It's
the
growing
of
ISIL
membership,
because
we
have
these
constituents,
not
constituency
chapters
and
an
AC,
and
we
know
it's
difficult
to
get
new
members.
I
We
know
it's
reforming
good
new
chapters
and
then
there
is
this
I
would
like
to
know.
Maybe
to
what
extent
we
as
an
organization,
have
some
kind
of
goal.
You
know
how
big
could
be
grow
and
how
can
we
grow
community
I?
Believe
chapters
will
definitely
feel
very
received
if
any
of
these
efforts
that
where
we
go
and
grow
community,
it
would
be
included
in
that.
But
I
think
this
is
a
really
big
question
and
I
don't
expect
I
have
answers
I'm,
just
thinking.
This
is
a
good
opportunity
to
raise
it,
but.
B
B
C
Wire
metaphor:
I
wanted
to
pull
out
one
of
my
favorite
themes
that
which
is
which
I
was
glad
to
see
in
here.
A
lot
of
this
was
oriented
around
collaboration
in
building
better
links
to
the
broader
industry.
I
was
encouraged
to
hear
you
talk
about
partnering
with
influential
vendors
moving
markets,
and
it
actually
calls
back
to
all
of
the
stuff
we're
talking
about
the
Middle
East
Bureau
into
shaping
what
the
market
looks
like
I.
E
C
That's
that's
good
and
important
work
to
do.
I'm
I'll,
admit
that
I'm
kind
of
pleased
and
a
bit
nervous
to
hear
that
focus.
So
the
question
would
be
appreciative
of
your
insights.
It's
kind
of
how
much
of
a
stretch
goal
is
the
collaboration
that
we
need
to
be
successful.
Have
the
relationships
in
place
that
we
need
right
now
and
we
just
need
to
activate
them
to
do
the
things
you
want
to
do
or
we
need
to
go,
make
a
whole
lot
of
new
friends
so
to
achieve
what
we
set
out
to
achieve
your
I
think.
B
The
answer
to
those
is
both
I
think
there
are
some
places
where
we've
got
on
relationships,
and
we
can,
we
just
need
to
you
know,
make
them
more
effective,
where
other
places
where
we
totally
need
to
reach
out.
We,
we
haven't
been
very
effective
at
it,
but
in
terms
of
stretching
I
will
point
out
that
not
every
stretch
is
comfortable
and
I
have
said
now,
maybe
a
hundred
time
that
if
we
are
not
uncomfortable
every
day
of
the
world,
including
ourselves
uncomfortable
every
day,
we're
not
doing
our
job.
B
E
The
discussion
is
AI,
that's
one
of
the
example.
Angeles
wants
to
pretty
good
because
we
don't
know
yet
and
also
we
know
just
where
the
engineer
or
academic
the
industry.
So
we
know
vo
situation,
that's
completely
different
from
the
person
who
talking
based
on
the
Arun
Resort
and
we
know
password
can
think
so.
We
always
saying
we're
based
on
engineering
touch
base
databases,
and
you
always
saying
that
is
the
important
thing
and
also
we
are
able
to
make
another
change
Italy
to
learn
inviting
some
export.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
all
trustees
for
your
comment.
So
now
we're
gonna.
We
are
slightly
behind
schedule,
but
it's
okay,
because
then
we
will
speed
up.
We
have
a
buffer
after
that,
and
I
mean
these.
Arguably
one
of
the
you
know
most
important
topics
we
need
to
deal
with.
Obviously,
so
we're
gonna
break
only
for
five
minutes.
Instead
of
ten,
you
know
and
then
I
will
leave
it
up
to
Andrea.
A
Actually,
so
this
is
gonna,
be
close
executive
session,
we're
gonna,
so
we're
gonna
break
for
like
five
minutes:
how
about
twenty
five
minute
executive
session
so
for
people
following
online.
This
is
gonna,
be
like
a
half
half
an
hour
break
until
we
will
resume
in
open
to
observer
session
and
for
people
here
in
the
room.
I
will
leave
it
up
to
Andrew,
who
should
stay
and
yeah
so
a
five
minute
break.
A
D
I
guess
this
is
just
the
kind
of
people
that
you
know
that
we
did
our
job,
that
we
did
meet
in
early
October
to
see
a
preliminary
proposal
for
the
budget
where
we
peppered
sandy
with
a
bunch
of
questions
and
some
revisions
were
made.
They
were
distributed
to
the
board
so
that
we
saw
it
before
we
got
here
and
then
we
had
a
presentation
earlier
communites
ago,
and
it
was
the
feeling
of
the
finance
community
that
we
should
approve
it.
That's
that's
it
for
the
report.
Thank.
A
You
so
much
Ron.
So
now
we're
gonna
have
two
resolutions.
One
is
to
approve
the
budget
itself
and
the
other
is
to
basically
the
transfer
of
funds
that
we
need
to
do
to
the
the
ITF
LLC.
So
two
different
resolutions,
so
the
first
one
is
basically
not
to
approve
the
the
you
know:
Internet
Society,
you
know
an
action
plan
for
2019
with
its
associated
budget,
as
was
presented
before
I
need
someone
to
move.
Okay,
Olga
moves
a
per
second,
and
since
this
is
you
know,
has
to
do
with
money.
A
A
Thank
you,
I'm
moving
along
2.23,
as
I
said,
I
mean
the
with
the
creation
of
the
IETF
LLC.
This
budget
contains,
you
know,
lines
related
to
that
and
related
to
the
transfers
that
we
have
to
do
to
the
LLC
and
the
diversion
of
the
of
the
resolution.
I
had
I
didn't
had
the
numbers,
but
I
believe
that
one
has
them
okay,
perfect.
So
so
that
resolution
includes
basically
the
money
that
will
be
transferred
to
the
LLC
and
I
will
give.
A
J
D
A
Okay,
great
so
we're
gonna
break
four
lands
here
because
they
are
waiting
for
us
already
and
we
are
a
bit
delayed.
We're
gonna
have
a
one-hour
lunch
break
so
for
people
remotely.
We
will
reopen
actually
in
open
to
observer
session
and
we
will
be
basically
getting
a
report
from
Olga.
First
thing
on
the
on
the
PIR
nomination
table
and
I
know
that
we
also
may
have
actually
an
John
is
working
on
it.
A
resolution
about
the
retention
policy
we
discussed
yesterday.
A
You
made
it
up
already.
Okay,
so
if
you
guys
can
check
your
emails,
because
if
everybody
is
okay,
we
can
pass
the
resolution
today.
If
we
need
further
discussions,
we
will,
you
know,
discuss
it
and
improve
it
at
some
other
time.
So
so
that's
gonna
be
kind
of
the
plan
for
for
the
after
lunch
session.
So
you
know
when
our
see
you
later.
Thank
you.
So
the
we're
gonna
get
a
status
update
on
the
PIR
nominations.
Committee,
bye,
bye,
Olga,
so
Olga.
Please
go
solo.
J
So
the
Internet
Society
will
be
accepting
nominations
for
the
board
of
directors
of
the
public
internet
registry
PA.
Her
just
to
remind
us.
Our
business
is
to
manage
the
International
registry
of
dot
org
dot,
NGO
and
Ong
domain
names
and
associated
International
domain
names.
Id
ends.
So
in
2019
there
are
three
positions
opening
to
the
airport.
The
three
directors
will
serve
a
three-year
term
that
begins
a
mid
year
2019
and
it
expires
mid
year
2022.
J
So
what
is
expected
from
the
experience
required
for
this
positions
is
especially
not
not
necessarily
but
recommended
prior
board
experience
preferred
that
can
communicate
effectively
in
English
language.
A
good
understanding
of
the
functioning
of
the
Internet
and
the
associated
technologies
demonstrated
abilities
as
a
long-term
strategic
thinker,
high
ethical
standards
and
integrity,
well-developed
collaboration
and
consensus
building
skills,
strong
communication
skills,
strong
financial
acumen
and
good
understanding
of
a
non-governmental
organization
and
the
timeline
for
the
20,
2019,
PR,
director
or
nomination
process,
is
the
following.
The
application
period
begins
the
26th
of
November
2018
to
this
year.
J
So
this
is
a
proposed
timeline.
Application
period
ends
the
4th
of
February
2019
at
20,
three
UTC.
The
slate
will
be
sent
to
the
ISO
board
on
the
second
22nd
of
February
2019.
The
board
will
vote
on
slate
on
the
4th
of
March
2019,
and
the
announcement
of
the
selection
should
be
done
on
the
22nd
of
March
2019
for
before.
Thank
you.
A
A
Okay,
so
we're
gonna
we're
gonna
vote
by
race
of
hands
and
it's
gonna
be
yes,
no
or
abstain,
so
everyone
vote
in.
Yes,
please
raise
your
hand,
no
votes,
abstain,
okay,
so
one
abstention
eleven
years
boats.
The
resolution
passes
okay
good,
so
these
take
stacks
into
any
other
business
and,
as
I
said
before,
we
have
at
least
one
issue.
Yesterday
we
discussed
the
retention
policy
and
maybe
I
will
let
this
way
as
a
as
the
chair
of
the
Governance
Committee
to
introduce
it.
I
Yes,
thank
you,
I
think
the
board
was
looking
into
additional
materials
that
uses
during
board
meetings
and
in
the
works
of
the
committee
to
come
up
with
policy
that
would
give
a
direction
to
staff
as
how
to
save
or
delete
the
material.
That
is
no
longer
needed,
and
so
we
identify
a
few
areas
of
and
communication
channels
that
the
board
uses
and
we
simply
looked
at
the
use
of
board
meetings
public
sessions
and
that
we
published
on
YouTube
channel
which
will
be
stored
permanently.
And
then
we
so
that
that
is.
I
With
regards
to
the
video
recordings
of
board
meetings
and
public
sessions
meeting,
we
decided
that
those
should
be
stored
permanently.
We
looked
at
the
board,
wiki
and
board
effect,
which
is
the
new
tool
that
the
board
uses
to
and
and
the
Committees
of
the
board
to
do
their
work
on,
and
we
all
agreed
that
the
board
wiki
will
store
its
details
for
another
seven
years.
I
I
However,
the
there
is
also
the
this
policies
just
clarifies
and
the
overall
intent
society
retention
policy
documentation
so
that
we
know
exactly
what
materials
we
will
to
keep
and
for
how
long-
and
we
also,
as
you
know,
voted
and
have
a
policy
for
deletion.
So
now
that
board
communication
board
email
is
also
in
line
with
the
other
email
policy
that
will
be
deleted
one
year
on
a
yearly
basis,
and
importantly,
liaison
will
be
making
sure
that
those
implementations
take
place.
So
that's
really
all
that
we
discussed
and
the
document
has
been
sent
to
the
board.
I
A
A
Okay,
good,
so
we're
gonna
vote
again
by
raise
of
hands.
Yes,
no
abstain.
So
true,
so
I
need
someone
to
to
move
okay
so
shown
here.
Oh,
she
segment
Thanks,
so
raise
of
hands.
Yes,
no
I'm,
saying
a
all
trustees
voting
years.
Please
raise
your
hand.
All
trustees
voting
no
raise
your
hands
any
abstentions,
so
the
resolution
passes
unanimously,
excellent
and
and
then
moving
to
the
well
within
the
a
Oh
be
part
of
the
agenda,
any
other
AOB
from
anyone.