Jenkins User Experience Special Interest Group, 13 May 2020

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From YouTube: Jenkins UX SIG Meeting - 13 May 2020

Description

Oleg Nenashev joined the group and the main discussion was about the upcoming Jenkins UX Hackfest which is planned for the week of May 25 to 29. See link for more details: https://www.jenkins.io/events/online-hackfest/2020-uiux/. Joe Brueggen showed the progress on the updated designs for tables. There was also a discussion about how to best land the PR for migrating from tables to divs for UI forms and other elements. This is a significant change to the Jenkins UI and needs careful testing to make sure it doesn't break any plugins.

A

Absolutely small group today and that's okay, so let's go ahead and get it started. We're already recording so bear with me here as I share. My screen give me one. Second.

A

All right so a couple of good topics here today, first and foremost, I, don't think we have anyone on the call who hasn't been on this Sigma T before so I think we can skip this new introductions. Does anyone have anything they'd like to add feel free, of course, to hop in there and do this as we're discussing and without further ado I think you know, let's just go ahead and dig it and oh like do you want to start us off talking about the hackfest yeah.

B

I could do that so yeah, maybe it's pretty fresh The, Scream sure sure, okay,.

B

Get this my screen.

B

Okay, so last meeting we had a quick discussion about your UX hackathon, but we would like to do that and after some follow-ups with they see, this documentation is seek and use advocacy outreach exactly that we want to do that and robbery. We set a date and we announced the event.

B

So if you haven't seen it yet, there is a blog post on Jenkins I/o, which basically describes how they went to would look like we planted this, my screen yeah, so we have three main tracks at the moment: user interface, user, documentation and I spread the word all mostly about user stories, user experience describing features etc, and for these three tracks we are currently collecting project ideas, so I put at least one topical for the discussion.

B

My in the seek- and here you can see that we had something a number of projects, including newcomer and then areas like some features from local updates from our code. Also Jenkins, accessibility. This is a topic revision we described and discussed last time other newbie friendly issues. We also had a few contribute restoration out about dark theme for Jenkins. So what we need?

B

We start the discussion about support policy for things, but in principle we want to have it and there are other projects which are currently under discussion, existing grid permissions and basically read on the web interface and again your credentials here. I keep plugging etcetera, etcetera. So this is the current least. This list is a moving target at the moment, so we will be adding items may be removing some mighty and subletting descriptions, updating general issues so that there will be more information on the list.

B

But this is what we have at the moment regarding they rented server. It will be a five-day event. This it's hoping hop off, so it's not a hackathon when everybody just starts working full-time.

B

Basically, we invite people to spend as much time very willing to do, and we will go second I think a number of events and that one question would be about presenters from the aux sig so that we could have more you're a little late topics covered today.

B

So this is a quick introduction and event his life. We already started getting registrations, so by now we have more than 20 registrations and Counting. So we'll see where we get but I think that we have a good chance, a pretty good event and facility of facilitating stories in our roadmap, because the most of these items are somewhat represented in this roadmap. At the moment,.

B

Okay, any questions comments.

B

So, just to summarize, what else we did in order to support this documentation and support roadmap in principle, I submitted a pull request to Jenkins ie, which extends the page a bit.

B

So it adds more participants and if you do not see yourself in this list- and you would like to all join just to do that, so it can be done by a pull request and we all started documenting projects. So now there is a bit more description. You can fill up dates, drinks, accessibility and the user interface over hope. So basically, these three items that represent their stories. We already have on the roadmap well, except accessibility, which is a new one.

C

One question: yes:.

B

C

We look for issues in from my plugins, for instance, which recording user interface small enhancements and marks and somehow yes,.

B

So if we go to the current version of this page, so basically everybody is welcome to submit their project ideas and then we will somehow tell them and show them on this page. So here you can see. For example, there is a query for dark theme or let me just open a virtual version of this page, because there were some ideas are in the pool request.

B

It takes a while okay, so here, for example, we have Jerry picks for who can fill up this jury a bit for accessibility. We also have a general waiting for a newcomer friend the issues and right now. This query shows something like 13 inches. I still need to scrub them, but there were some relevant ones. So the first thing you could do you could just put issues for plug in spare and hip example of one in Sanjay plug-in unable to response a function for all the tables.

B

So it's already good there and if you just create issues, tag them as user experience, you are a UX front, end user experience, so I just did the best effort to match labels yeah. They will be there. If you want to have something more major, you can just suggest a pull request and edit topic here.

B

So we still have two weeks to process these pages and to improve them, but in principle, if you have an idea of doing something major on your plugin, we can just put it as an additional project, put some documentation and that's it.

B

Okay, any other ideas comments about this page. What's.

D

The most effective way to get a long list, I mean we've got 13 issues which is hopefully not a lot. Oh.

B

Well, actually, it's quite a good number. If we take a big time yeah, we can say tips so they'd be the best way to discuss them. Everyone is welcome to suggest project IDs and this Google Doc and click here, and you get a Google Doc where you have published ideas and also ideas on the discussion.

B

So what you can do you can just put your ideas to this list and that's it so we will. The discussion may be in chat and eventually the publish it or not, but hopefully we will publish it.

B

B

So definitely we need more tasks, I'm, not sure whether we need more projects because, for example, system with permission is a big project and then.

D

I, create tasks is more what I meant in project yeah.

C

D

A lot of stuff to change romp is done, is more chance that somebody will say something that catches their eye. No ability level. That's right, yeah also.

B

Yeah, there's tables to gives immigration, so what we were discussing in my chat and a public voice today, so basically I have a stack.

E

B

But hey we'll get to there so I, just that edits it to the list so that we can discuss it.

B

Okay- and you have the kid back.

D

Well pick for putting this together, manases big deal, obviously what we're doing in maine, hopefully we'll get a lot of work, and I mean, if we're lucky, we'll get a couple of people that keep on working on it after the access, as well as yeah.

B

Fingers crossed as.

E

Anyone signed up here, yeah.

B

We have more than 20 legislations and speaking of people on this collar. I guess it's only me who registered and then be the most of these 20 people are not usual suspects. um A lot hazard has also registered, so we people on this call, but again I think that we can get a good number. So what we have is a kind of target for us is 58 contributors. Well, basically, it's exactly number of t-shirts we have secured for now, but if, like we get beyond that, we will also see what we can do.

B

Because he had 20 registrations, you know we never know how many contributions he will actually get. So we will keep pushing the event, and hopefully it will be a good opportunity to just get together in the community like we did it. For example, for java 10-plus hackathon, we had a lot of different conversations. It was first time when some contributors met each other even with children, because in 2018 there was no practice of regular video calls.

B

Now, with special interest group meeting success rate, we have probably a lot of meetings in the community, but in 2018 it wasn't a keys. So maybe now we can have even more community bonding.

B

So if you have yet I don't yeah, another thing we are planning to do, which is not reflected on this page, is explicitly highlighting that we invite people to do York State stank, including Webbie, oh and documentation.

B

So basically participants will be able to just do some testing report issues and it will count towards the Hecate on contributions, so we won't be requesting on the github changes.

D

So how do we kick something like this off with, like a session like a video or record recording on how? How do you.

B

Think normally.

D

B

Yeah we have some discussion, I mean let me switch to the planning doc because we have tend to give fun there. So we started sampling, different events. Yeah this pitch is getting a bit long, but iam so May 25th will be opening. We have a confirmed session for 1:00 p.m. UTC, so they will basically just say hello to some overview about how to contribute, how to record your contributions, etc.

B

We hope to have a kind of opening course for all stories. So, for example, for the communication we have it confirmed to Bismark for user interface. It's actually a good question. So if somebody is interested to just do some introduction ten minutes or so it would be appreciated. I.

D

Mean I'd be happy to give a short talk about where it's all going just just like 5-10 minutes, you know like the kind of division they people are. If you think people are interested in that I mean I'm.

A

D

I'm not going to give it into the introduction. You know this is how the UI works. Things don't be. People are much more qualified to it up me.

D

Well, it would be.

B

D

Plug the city, obviously in that, where is it going so.

A

D

Would be really nice if you know out after this you know three, four or five people become. You know, regular methods of the six or you know, regular contributors, ten or twenty would be even better, but you know we got free for regular people. That would be the one yeah.

B

A

D

B

D

It's an opening session, then at 1:00 p.m. on the 25th.

B

Center the invites so we see just the development of the basically yesterday and today. So it's the kind of moving target, but all the meetings will be scheduled and announced this week. So I guess we also kind of jumped hands-on session music, oh yeah, with 3 p.m. UTC yeah, that's right!

B

Okay, so basically it will be handled in that form of developing a meet up. So we've had a great block about I think find COI for the portal plugins, so I think we could just use this content as a kind of overview section, and if somebody is interested that we can have more such sessions, so the whole idea is basically to have a hot fest. So if anybody wants to have a developer meter or whatever we can do that or just Show and Tell for particular topic.

B

So, for example, we plan a session about migrating plug-in documentation to beat hub yes again, but we will do this session and I also asked him about system get permission so, okay, so we just need to discuss the date, but the entrance for we do this session and so on. So if you want to present a particular story which is related to user experience, we can schedule a session during this week and if you would like to propose something, just do that.

D

Right so we can kind of make it into many conferences. If we have the speakers that want to do that. Well,.

B

That's not an intent. I would rather picture developer, Huddle's, so yeah, maybe workshop like things or show-and-tell things use open discussion. You know, but doing conference like think. Okay, we could like.

D

An unconference than nitrogen, that's.

B

B

So work for you in principle,.

D

Right, let's hope we get a lot of people, the wanna contribute.

D

Well, everyone.

B

Our best to do that, but we already a good number of contributors and actually at the time it is quite good. So, for example, for the communication we have just announced jihad Google season of dogs, so there will be, but then technical writers exploring junkies project, and we have already got messages, maybe from all of them, maybe more.

B

They will all suggest this head first as an opportunity to contribute the same for google Summer of Code. We also keep this option open. So if students want to contribute, they are welcome to do that and it's the main reason why we do it in the end of me before the coding starts, so that, firstly, we have mentors and students potentially contributing to this project, and it's a good opportunity for coming in the moment for them.

B

Yep, just if you want to invite someone.

D

Anybody else that's working you with within cloud based on this was the mainly year so.

B

Well, it's got a knitted effort in the community, Jim yeah, so what it means. It's basically me mark Lisa and Tracy organizing that, in terms of just doing all this back and think so, I will be probably the main host for all the events mark is taking care of the documentation because he's the communication officer say Melissa is taking care about the ransom display.

B

The worst part include encouraging the way website and for UI UX I would definitely appreciate somehow is getting rethink running because it's a major topic so having more contributors would be great but yeah. For me personally, I will be a full time this week on the event. Well, maybe except necessary, jsoc stuff, but yeah I, don't own any other events.

B

And we already have a number of reviewers, for example, thanks team and probably we could get more people here so Felix he might be able to participate yeah. We would appreciate, if they're, more diverse and more contributors, I.

D

Mean hopefully, we can just planets that Felix is more or less 100% available, for this I mean I think it makes more makes more sense to use his efforts during that week to sort of merge the earth and- and he works on. You know other UI related stuff I have.

A

Yet to go, add my name on the list there, but I'm also planning to allocate some time at that point to be available for some design feedback and that sort of stuff, as well as as contributions are made. Thank you.

B

Yeah, so we keep going these teams etc. Yeah, you know when we were doing the Java 10-plus hackathon. We had almost 30 contributors in total during this one-week event and it was a hey. We have a chance of having a lot more I, guess still less than 100, but still like a decent number of contributors, and we really want to have it as a kind of community get together so that, for example, in York seek you have a meeting right in the middle of racket on 27th right.

B

So, for example, this meeting could be used for intermediate celebrations or something like that. What do you think just to bring people to this sick meeting.

B

F

Okay, now the dark cig will actually meet I. Believe it's the Friday before, and so we will use the Friday before as our sort of get it launched the 22nd. We will be in the dark cig there. So, okay.

B

Well, we could still do a special meeting code, your tongue, the first. Oh, we.

F

Should absolutely I just will also do preparatory work in that dark, cig meeting, but absolutely we will do. We should do one during the week itself. Yeah, okay,.

B

Okay, yeah I'm just putting things so there.

B

Anything else to be added, or are they any specific topics you would have? You would like to have because I can reach out to contributors and see whether we could organize additional developer meetups?

B

For example, I have a topic about developing content in jelly bean. To be honest, I would rather link recording because we have some, but if we feel it's important to have this section, this session life I will try to organize so that I'll probably run it on my own.

F

So on the on the front-end development, are there things there that related to the the various initiatives that Phoenix is working on? That should be shared for front-end development, the the styling or is that? Is that separate or leg.

B

So yeah, that's a good question, so we can have some introductory meeting. We have a presentation by only this presentation by Olli. It doesn't really cover the topics we put in this one. That's right: okay,.

C

Actually, my topics are a little bit specific to plug in reporters and the special views in there I think Felix part is more in the and the other area how to style the individual elements of China, okay,.

B

So how to style elements in Jenkins.

B

B

Talk to Felix but yeah next week, but the connection item so to agree that it would be useful and maybe another topic which we could clarify. So if we really do themes, maybe we could have a how-to guide about creating Jenkins themes, but he again with all the disclaimers about theme compatibility. So what we did? We start the discussion about things support policy.

B

This is basically this text. We discussed with Felix and will have already got some positive feedback. So too long did the Train it. We just want to document the current state where we grantee exactly no forward or backward compatibility for themes, and we keep it is this until they can feel improvements are done.

B

So this is the current proposal and we'll be rolling out female first on only if it's accepted by the hackathon. So my question to you: George Jeremy and two others taken that this policy is published. Are you fine with putting more things, because you know that it would potentially compatibility at risk, but at the same time the engine is all going to be there?

B

Could you rephrase the question, although I'm, sorry? Okay, if this policy is accepted and published by the hackathon, are you fine with us facilitating team development as potential topics for contributors.

A

Yeah I mean I'm, not I'm, not immediately opposed to that, because I think that this this support policy outlines the parameters in a good way, so so yeah I mean I'm fine with that I think I think it was really important that we had this policy in place, and this is a great guideline or series of guidelines, so yeah I'm not I'm, not opposed to that yeah.

D

I mean for me to Simon, obviously be awesome if everybody just ride around you know, didn't these themes. We're creating overall, but I, mean I. Think the power of Jenkins is you know, people are free to do install it the way they want and yeah.

B

D

What drives that, basically.

B

Okay, so yeah, alternatively, at how to create it, seem to the least.

B

Well, probably, it's me I'm.

D

Sure by have tried email with the simple thing: plugin yeah.

B

So, as a part of this proposal, I am going to document usage of themes in admin guidelines because right now, if you go.

B

Jaqen say your dog book: basically, there is nothing about themes there and whatever I will probably do a page add a page here and with all the policies I will link it to simple themes like him. So we will be able to highlight this engine, but vice versa. I just define all the policies.

B

Okay, so yeah, that's the plan, any other comments feedback because yeah we already spent 30 minutes. So if you want to place it with other topics, I totally understand that I think we.

A

Might be too just for the meeting sake and for timing sake. Sorry sorry was someone about to say something: I, don't wanna I don't mean to catch up. Oh no,.

G

Just they wanted to clarify: does it make sense to popularize this heck fest are using different channels, retweeting, and maybe only Lincoln in and related question. If somebody who doesn't have experience with Jenkins at all, does it make sense to ask those people to join and contribute to different? It is just.

B

So does it make sense to promote it? Definitely, yes, any channel.

B

We do some promotion on our own, but definitely more promotion wouldn't hurt about newcomers. We explicit say that we innovate every budget, regardless of the experience for that. We firstly create a new comer friendly stories, so there are some linked here. We will have more linked from other places.

B

Then yes, aim for documentation again either a new come out friendly ones. We will also have a chat where everybody is welcome to or common ask. This chat has been already created by the way. So, if you want to join- and in addition to that, we are as I said in the beginning, we will have your UX testing as suggested item again, it's basically it's an area where we would benefit from newcomers, especially user experience, testing for installation guidelines for tutorials for installation for things like that they an advantage to being a comer.

B

So it's definitely useful and it's much appreciated with somebody contributes and.

G

Related question, or does it make sense to ask companies who are currently using Jenkins and enjoy CIA CD infrastructure from Jenkins if they have any issues or instant documentation or related issues, or we don't it.

B

Definitely doesn't make sense to do that because historically Jenkins is mostly a tool used by professionals, and it also means that the most of our contributions come from companies well as individual contributors or as company contributors, but from people who want who use Jenkins and who want to improve that. So, if somebody wants to contribute it's a good opportunity to start, we know that company contributions yeah. There is a lot of obstacles like let's say: contributor, License Agreement.

B

We don't have one, but still some employers have to approve contribution before joining so for that, if they need help, they can reach out to us and those we have some things here which require you to write a code.

B

So, for example, sharing your story just posting in social media or you are UX testing, you don't have to write code and hence you don't have to get permission from your company to submit this code in public. Fortunately, there is not so many companies in the world who require you to approve tweets or whatever yeah. There are some.

B

So thanks for the questions and yeah I guess that's all from me. So thanks for your time and yeah, looking forward to this hot pressed thank.

A

D

A

Take the screen back for just a moment and I've got a quick share here. Let's see if I can get through this without coughing I apologize. If I need to go on mute all right, so we usually take a look at a a design, deck of sorts and look at ongoing progress of some some front-end UI element. Styles. This week it's going to be a pretty quick and straightforward one so linked here we have some early iterations and I do mean early on table styles for Jenkins.

A

So for a bit of context, because we have a couple of people on the call who weren't here last time, which is awesome, we link all of these decks and pretty much everything that we talked about on this document, which should be available in the UXA page for future reference. So if you ever want to go back and look at this stuff- and this excuse me- this UI revamp initiative is outlined here.

A

If you want to check that out so for today, we're just going to take a look at as I mentioned, some early table Styles the intended outcome. Here, being you know what let me do this since unknown the big monitor being to update Jenkins tables to use a more modern aesthetic, which can then result in a more user-friendly experience, so not changing dramatically the functionality in keeping what we've been doing in recent weeks here, updating styles, which doesn't prove the experience, but not necessarily in a deep way, right.

A

Well, we'll take a look in just a moment at some examples, so some ideas and again these these really are quite early still are that aesthetic improvements may include things like taller rows like taller rows right, so more spacing, as we've seen in the sidebar and in our typography adjustments to padding implementation of our newly defined type styles and our newly defined color palettes to make things more accessible.

A

We also would like to try and meant some interactive states, as we've seen, we've established those in the sidebar work and things like that, possibly on entire rows and tables, which would create sort of a more consistent experience with some of the other elements that we're working on again at this stage. These are just ideas. These are not being implemented currently, but when we get there, of course, we'll share that and we'll talk about it like we always do so. As I say here, we still need to do an audit.

A

Much like we did with button Styles throughout Jenkins to see the wide variety of table, treatments and table usages throughout the Jenkins interface, and that's going to inform this work a lot, but for this very quick update for this quick deck, we're just going to look at three screens. This is a screen shot of current table right. The the most visible table for a lot of people- and this is this next screen- is if we were to apply some of the EP standard.

A

Excuse me not standard some of the styles that we are trying to standardize throughout Jenkins of adjusting spacing with some adjustments to our typography reflected here. Adjustments to hyperlink styles, notably, these are not with updates to our icons, which is something we're aiming to do in the coming ones as well. Like we've talked about so not perfect.

A

If this were an interactive prototype, we would be able to see interactive states here reflected so that things are a lot more clearly selectable when you interact with them, it's a lot clearer how you're doing that? What's being done, as you interact with the table, excuse me I think we got a comment here. All.

B

Right it certainly it wasn't me I just asked whether you would go after a green balls.

A

By default, so we need. We need to look at all of this iconography and things like that. I'm still, I'm, not sure click here.

A

This is another another mock-up just static for the moment right so applying applying the type we've established, the colors we've established adjusting spacing what could this plug-in table that we that we are all familiar look like with some of these very basic adjustments, improving usability, so very early stages and much more detailed to come in the coming sig meetings on this, but I just wanted to share that, and does anyone have any thoughts or questions at this early stage on the supper.

F

That that is a beautiful thing that you have on screen right now, I like that, the extra the better text over the title, the name of the plug-in thanks very much for.

A

Now it's just a picture right. I have to stress that so I appreciate that, but we're gonna see you know the limits of what we can actually implement in tables and it really comes back to how they're being used, which I don't technically understand yet so so we'll see what we can do, but we definitely like to improve legibility, just general understandability of tables as they're, used throughout the UI yeah.

B

One thing to keep in mind that plug-in a minor Jeff yoy is basically a separate project on the roadmap at the moment, and there is a number of contributors who change it. A lot shut out today in Outback. Basically, what all the way out there so I believe that changing cough Styles should be quite a struggle.

B

But if you want to change the content at the same time, then it might make sense to do some coordination.

A

Yeah absolutely and that's that's a great point. This is definitely just like a static example and and of course, other initiatives are are going to include various elements that we touch throughout this project, but but yeah point taken absolutely.

C

Makes sense here for me said to look into several plugins what kind of tables are currently used so because these tables you are showing are not a typical table from a plug-in I think these are some yeah. They are you using a table, but actually these things are not what I think about a table. So normally you have tabular data, but this is some kind of detailed information for the plugins, so it would make sense to look I have some other plugins or look into some other plugins as well.

A

Yeah I totally agree and that's a great point. Thank you. That's something that we need to do as part of a table. Audit right, yeah,.

B

Thank you. She will so very different difficult in terms of stalling. We pass through the same on JSA on so, for example, one thing to say: we had many pages like let's say, roadmap which follow the table layout. So thanks to this being a kind other contributors, hoplites some magic so that the tables can collapse, etc. So, basically, they still get flown way out, even though they still tables in HTML. So maybe something like that will be applied to the I'm, not sure potentially yeah.

A

I, frankly, I'm not sure either, but but we're definitely mindful of this and we'll see how far we can push the envelope to make them more usable. In addition to selling and and we'll let you know yep. Thank you for sure, I think our next item here.

A

Updating the sig page. Oh look, did you add this one yeah.

B

So basically we already debuted, you know your exact fist. So unless somebody objects they would like to leave this church ange merged, so the resulting approval from Jeremy from Team from mark. Basically, just it's some more details.

D

You know, let's go yeah.

A

Awesome yeah. Thank you for sure. You want to speak to number five and six there as well. Oh.

B

Yeah so I, don't always at the topics, but when I do okay, so yeah, if you don't find a green shading trim, maybe a pass it to Tim, quick, just a second. You need to close top say, open.

B

Okay, so we have a pull request, which is related to replacing many tables now lay out two leaves it's not that tables job was talking about. We also use tables to align components on the layout and basically, it's considered as bad practice, especially in terms of accessibility and also because layout is very fixed.

B

Also, it makes it very difficult to modify that and there was a lot long-standing requests from Josh sort of about changing from tables to leaves and just to provide some context. First time we discussed this topic was something like 2013 and 2014 in the developer menu list, and since that we have never touched dead because it's considered to be extremely complex and potentially a breakin.

B

But yes, here we are so thanks to Felix, thanks to team and other contributors, and thanks to Joseph, we actually have a pull request which does just short of changing bed yeah. It's a massive change across the Jenkins web interface, so, basically replacing a lot of tables which just used to render layouts.

B

This change is likely to be a breaking one. That's why we postponed it until the LCS cut off, but the new LTS baseline was selected. So technically we can nurse the Nvidia and there is some going discussion about how we could no and basically there are two ways we discussed over past day or so so one way is to just land it before the hug fest and likely they will be regressions.

B

So we invite contributors to work on that to fix the district rations, it will be a bit of a boilerplate, but it will be more coming for contributors. Another way is to actually do crowd testing during the hot fest, so have several contributors invite more for this project and we can provide to them. We can provide ways to test that, but it would be a more conservative approach so what I wanted to discuss?

B

He is basically to get feedback from they seek and to see how we would like to render that and the team is still on the cool ideas. Yes, so Tim. It would be great to know your opinion because you've been driving cattle all this time.

E

I was muted, yeah yeah, both work I'm, just not sure of the quality of testing that we would get and dip.

E

During the heck fist, if we merged I think if we merge it at the beginning of the heck via Steam version of call that people will be working off, would have this in it, but it wouldn't be released which could catch some issues, it's more likely to catch issues. If people are working off of that, we could have a bug, bash and safe and ask people to test it.

E

B

You can do bug rush anyway, yeah, so.

E

B

Challenge here that we will need to provide guidelines how to how to test that, for example, we needed for Java 11 before I created a development branch. We set up incremental delivery for them where we set up. Docker I delivered it for that, but basically it didn't cut their job 11 hug fest. We had a branch in the jingis core repository where we were integrating changes and the thanks to our CAC, the environment. We were getting versions after each match, so we could do something like that.

B

We will still need to document that, but in principle it is possible.

B

But yeah you're right, it might be a bit more complicated if we just measure they think of us will be easier, but yeah I'm not sure what would be the consequences for users.

E

With more plugins I guess, the plugins that I have installed are working fine.

E

This is always going to be insane plug, instead of like you can have issues.

B

So, for example, in Java 11 hackathon I try to find links, but we do coordinate through Google Doc, so we had a Google Doc where everybody was putting, what exactly they tested, which plugins etc, and actually we got contributions so that same, for example, for jab 200. When we were doing that, we again, we were coordinating it through a Google Doc, where applicants new bidder was putting the changes.

B

Yeah good yeah, that's wrong blog post.

B

But if you have multiple contributors who are interested to work on this topic, we definitely can create a framework for that for comfortable testing kind, fo collaboration, and hopefully we will get some contributions and just a shot of that yeah.

E

The other thing I'm not quite worried about, is, if we do have big changes to the UI, will see me. Changes to the UI during this hackfest is just having to rework the pr to adapt to it. Given it already touches a large part of the UI okay, it's.

B

A fair point, so your preference is basically option. One.

E

Yeah option one or one button is that, yes, as only works for me as well, a preference for one just because I don't want to have to rework retest and conflicts again and again again, just just because of how wide-ranging it is. I feel like Java relievers different is that a lot of the changes could be main lines in Java T. In.

B

E

Jack speed stuff may be more difficult, but.

B

Yeah so just to clarify, in the case of Java 10 a year, we had a hug fest, but then we had a feature branch I mean before something like three or four months, whether you're gradually moving our hugs to the main range.

B

So he definitely would prefer fast approaches because a if we assume that we want to merge it in this LCS cycle so that it becomes available to LCS user and its users in September. Then we just have two or three months to stabilize the Becker system, but still we probably don't want to break it completely for weekly users.

B

So if you have confidence that the majority of plug-ins are likely to work because the Murshid- and if you don't have confidence by the hug, fest would go towards option two so that we try to do cloud testing yeah.

E

As far as I'm aware, it's matrix often ec api plugins need merge and release.

B

It's almost like little strategy break.

E

Oh I, don't think it will, but I haven't a few tests today, because I don't think it's part of the default recommended plugins.

B

E

I'll give that one a check, but I, don't think it does just based on sui it's different yeah.

B

So basically, it also tree plugin renders its pages on its own, but.

E

B

So you have something like five minutes left but yeah, for they seek, if you're interested to discuss that I think this pull request is the best location and I think we need to decide within one week or so how we proceed.

B

E

And yet more testing by anyone would be very useful to help us with that as well. I think we've had a few people test it, but more as welcome I deserve mailing. This post on it as well, and the documentation updates PR as well yeah.

B

So, whatever way we choose setting, we want to adhere that to the hackathon so yeah. This. The question is what exactly we will be doing there. There's.

E

More work, on top of it to be done as well. There was things that we are happy with, but they're just riskier changes and more work that we didn't want to leave in scope of this.

E

B

So, let's see the let's keep talking about it.

B

Once it's merged I think it will be a great improvement, so I tried it on your phone arrow screens, while something less than 1000 pixels. It's an arrow screen and Jenkins yeah. This layout already gives a lot of advantages and yeah I'm, not even talking about launching Jenkins on mobile phone. The interesting project.

E

Well, this makes everyday a million times better on mobile, just with you know, with with no effort really it just. It just works on my world. A lot of things, yeah.

B

Right and the previous changes by Felix and the header also improved the visitation so.

B

Anything else on that topic.

D

A

Last one may be pretty quick, so I know you, you had added as a discussion point, you had saved logo and you shared some drafts of some concepts there. I could speak to it real quickly. Just because we talked about it earlier is something that I'm gonna I'm gonna try and create something for us as well.

A

Maybe work on a new iteration of your concepts as well in the coming weeks, so it may or may not be ready by the next cig meeting, but this is something we can upload onto the the sig page and makes a better impression. We share on social media or in other places in other venues about the cig. So that might be all there is to say about that one. But do you have anything else so, like I know where we're coming up on time here, yeah.

B

I think just quick one, so yeah. If you want to take a look at better examples, you can go there, I deliberately not showing them, because most like Joe will come up with something much better because he has spent just several minutes and yeah. So right now we basically have a standard. Jenkins logo I believe somebody at some point copy pasted this logo from my changes in their face, Gingka say your website, so the resolution of this race- yeah, it's quite small.

B

So even here you can see that pixels and when you post anything to your cheek in social media. Basically, you get huge dog as a as opening graph and it looks different repeated edge to be the Jenkins. My very own I would actually slow one because doing.

E

The thing is, like I might be a bit at default: I.

B

D

B

You, that's probably so we applied some magic around it, so here yeah, open graphic, just puts user give. So if you remove that it will put Jenkins folder, which is definitely better option but yeah. If we have something else, Open.

D

Graph is what Twitter will perk up Twitter.

B

Facebook slack, if you post it in slack so, for example, I do post all the junk is about posting slug and when you images, so they come from Open, Graph, okay and yeah. This is a senator metadata. It's available on almost all changes pages.

D

Anyway, awesome to have a nice little like I mean, does not be fancy, but.

D

B

Yeah one thing about logos and other design, so there will be some old design or something like that. So basically it's like Summer of Code, but for designers, it's organized by whatever company. So if you want to post some project ideas, we could discuss that might be next at the next meeting.

B

Yeah most likely we're a bit late with it, but in principle, if you want to participate tools in such programs for design, we could you because yeah.

A

Weird, so that's all right, I was just about to say we're at time for this, for this call sorry go ahead really yeah.

B

I also have nothing else to say: yep thanks a lot for time and sorry. The test went almost all your time with the HD.

A

No thanks for bringing stuff to the table. It's it's appreciated and thank.

D

You everyone for your.

A

Time and and great session you.

D

Know big thanks for organizing the hackfest. Thank you. That's all bye, bye.

A

Thanks have a good one. Everyone thank you.