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From YouTube: Finance Committee Meeting 10/24/2022
Description
Finance Committee Meeting 10/24/2022 9:00am
A
A
A
D
D
This
year
in
the
past,
we
rent
they
rent
us
computers
and
35
people
sit
up
here
and
go
through
all
the
properties
and
bid
on
them,
and
it
takes
I,
don't
know
four
and
a
half
hours
this
year
we're
doing
a
randomized
sale.
So
all
the
tax
buyers
bring
us
a
flash
drive
and
they
get
plugged
into
the
computer
and
the
sale
takes
about
five
minutes.
D
It
randomizes
all
the
bids
and
tells
everybody
who
won
what
five
minutes
later
and
it
saves
us
a
ton
of
money.
So
that's
a
first
this
year,
so
we're
looking
forward
to
seeing
how
that
works
out
other
than
that
I
think
I
think
that's
it
tell
your
constituents
as
soon
as
November
rolls
around.
They
can
start
paying
next
year's
taxes
if
they
want
I
can
start
putting
their
money
away.
D
That's
just
what
they
want
to
hear
right
before
Christmas,
but
you
know
it
does
save
that
big
surprise
and
we
had
a
senior
Fair
out
in
Pembroke
I
guess
about
two
weeks
ago
and
I
think
what
came
out
of
that
senior
fair
is
probably
something
that
is
good
for
your
constituents.
If
you
have
a
problem,
make
a
call
right,
because
you
can
deal
with
problems
early
on
much
easier
than
we
can
when
they've
gone
too
long
and
then
there's
nowhere
to
there's
no
nothing.
We
can
do
so.
A
I'm
sorry,
next
fire,
yes
well,
there
will
be
light
Refreshments,
so
Define
light,
though
that's
the
problem.
We
have
no
public
comment.
Today.
Approval
of
minutes,
September,
28,
2022,
Mr
Hunter,
be
a
second
Mr
long,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
aye.
Those
opposed
same
sign
need
a
motion
to
go
into
executive
session.
Five
ilcs
120-2
C2,
which
is
collective
bargaining.
Is
there
a
motion
there?
Mr
Hess
Mr
featherling
roll
call
vote.
Please.
A
E
A
F
B
A
A
Thank
you,
I
and
I.
Do
want
to
thank
Mike
kuzwara
for
his
efforts
and
and
I
don't
know.
Most
of
all
outside
of
our
bargaining
Partners
would
be
Anita's
help
on
this
she's
very
skilled
at
presenting
what
was
being
discussed
at
the
the
moment
of
decision,
whether
that's
in
the
room
or
outside
the
room.
So
thank
you
Anita
and.
G
E
H
F
G
A
G
G
As
far
as
claims
recommended
not
recommended,
we've
got
I,
don't
take
these
individually
or
by
Department.
There's
three
from
the
from
Corrections
for
inmate
Medical
Care
Amy's
response
from
the
sheriff's
department
was
all
the
codes
and
everything
were
on
these
claims.
The
comment
was
a
statement,
but
all
the
medical
codes
that
are
used
to
determine
the
cost
are
were
on
there
and
the
sheriff's
here
doesn't
make
further
comment.
I
If
you
look
at
the
original
amounts
that
are
owed
the
first
one,
it's
itself
is
over
a
thousand
dollars,
I
think
it's
eleven
hundred
and
some
dollars
and
with
codes
and
with
the
things
that
one
of
our
employees
Katie
does
the
total
paid
out
on
that
wasn't
eleven
hundred
dollars.
It
was
like
seventy
seven
dollars.
I
These
have
been
paid
off
of
these
statements
before
the
codes
are
on
there
and
there
just
needs
to
be
some
a
couple
things.
There
needs
to
be
some
consistency
coming
out
of
the
auditor's
office
as
to
what
what
their
expectation
is,
and
there
needs
to
be
some
communication,
because,
quite
frankly,
this
is
wasting
the
finance
department's
time.
It's
wasting
the
Sheriff's
Office
time,
and
this
could
have
been
taken
care
of
with
a
quick
email,
a
quick
phone
call
and
that's
all
we've
ever
asked.
A
G
G
A
K
A
C
A
Well,
it
was
about
two
and
a
half
years
since
we
stopped
coming
to
these
meetings
and
it's
been
two
years
since
he's
come
to
work
during
the
day
here
at
the
county
to
be
accountable
to
the
public.
Okay,
two
and
a
half
years
is
eighty
thousand
dollars
and
a
pension
and
benefits,
and
why
the
public
is
not
standing
out
in
front
protesting.
I,
don't
know,
friends,
don't
know,
okay,
thank
you.
G
As
far
as
the
payment
we
made
this
original
payment
on
eight
four
twenty
two,
so
yeah
Dan
sent
this
through
and
then
he
is
aware
of
this,
and
you
know
they
process
the
payment
to
catch
up.
I
will
say
in
the
past
that
we
would
argue
this
because
of
the
60-day
we
have
60-day
window
to
pay
bills
in.
We
did
that
so
Dan.
You
know
he
wanted
to
get
the
input
of
the
committee.
G
G
A
Dan's
been
busy
cost
us
at
least
a
couple
hundred
bucks,
probably
more
to
cut
a
check.
Can
you
see
if
we
can't
get
that
waived
sure
or
they
just
included
on
the
next
invoice?
I
would
much
rather
not
see
the
ten
dollars
but
yeah.
So,
okay,
is
that
acceptable
to
the
committee
yeah?
Okay,
we
want
to
be
fair,
but
I
mean
yeah.
G
Make
sure
here
so
short
explanation
if
I
would,
on
monthly
claims
there
was
a
computer
pickup
down
in
the
treasurer's
office
when
she
went
to
start
printing
checks.
As
you
can
see,
the
system
doesn't
let
go
of
or
delete
any
activity
that
takes
place,
so
it
was
reset
and
we
continued
on
with
the
check
run,
but
you
can
see
that
you
know
it
always
gives
us
an
audit
trail
of
everything
that
happens,
and
sometimes
you
even
see
the
glitches.
So
in
the
first
three
pages,
four
pages.
A
H
A
G
G
As
far
as
the
total
one
of
the
real
important
factors
as
we
look
at
how
we're
ending
FY,
22
and
heading
into
our
FY
23,
is
that
our
three,
our
combined
fund
balances
for
the
three
major
funds,
general
fund,
tort
fund
and
pension
fund,
have
now
surpassed
what
was
the
highest
point
in
2008.
So
that's
significant
man.
We
surpassed
it
by
a
couple
million,
so
we
are
in
better
shape
to
if
you
will
be
recession
ready
as
we
as
we
learned.
G
As
far
as
the
numbers
are
concerned,
that
total
is
13
million
in
the
combined
total,
the
2008
number
was
9.6
million.
So
that's
the
difference
between
08
and
today
from
our
lowest
point
we're
roughly
it's
the
next
number,
just
over
17
million
17.1
million
improvement
from
2016..
So
that
is
significant
in
that
shorter
period
of
time.
G
A
This
is
we're
talking
about
sales
tax
use,
tax
replacement,
tax,
we're
not
talking
because
our
Levy
of
is
only
increased
on
average
three
percent
per
year,
so
I
just
want
to
draw
that
distinction,
and
we
haven't
done
this
on
property,
the
backs
of
property
taxes.
We
did
it
with
basically
not
spending
all
of
this
new
Revenue
that
came
in
during
covet
and
all
of
the
revenue
that
Mike
got
out
of
the
jail
in
the.
Despite
what
the
state
of
Illinois
tried
to
do
to
us
so
and
then
on
the
side.
A
There
was
basically
we're
trying
to
recession-proof
this,
and
we
really
don't
know
what
the
safety
act
is
going
to
bring
in
terms
of
reduced
revenues
and
added
costs.
We
think
we
do
about
9
million
over
five
years,
but
we've
got
to
build
something
in
there.
While
we
wait
and
see
you
know
and
then
try
to
keep
our
hands
around
us
on
a
month-to-month
basis.
So.
G
All
in
preparation
and
in
hopes
for
an
unknown
and
to
be
able
to
you,
know
again
absorb
you,
know,
potential
economic
change
that
might
be
coming
our
way
here
in
the
next.
You
know
what
we're
hearing
within
next
12
months,
so
we'll
see
so
I
just
wanted
to.
You
know
highlight
that
and
then
the
other
important
thing
that's
also
built
in
in
the
capital
development
worksheet,
as
we
talked
about
last
month,
is
paying
down
the
series
2009
bonds.
Those
are
budgeted
for
FY,
23
and
fy24.
G
So
this
shows
you
a
little
bit
future
as
well
as
continuing
Squad
leases
and
other
vehicle
leases
going
forward.
So
you
know
we're
not
we're
not
stopping
the
operations
generally,
we
still
have
it
all
built
in
and
we're
also
using
the
those
sales
tax
use,
tax
income
tax,
pprt
tax
to
also
pay
down
this.
The
series
2009,
which
helps
taxpayers
overall
so
okay,.
A
G
So
if
there's
specific
questions
or
not
from
your
review
over
the
weekend,
you
know
the
document
itself
or
a
specific
area
within
the
document.
You'll
be
happy
to
answer
that
we
wanted
to.
You
know,
do
the
highlights.
You
know
the
big
picture.
Look
at
it,
but
you
know
I'm
definitely
willing
to
answer
any
questions
if
there
are
any
here
as
far
as
specifically
in
the
document
itself,
if
the,
if
the
committee
has
any
specific
questions.
J
G
Well,
as
far
as
some
economically,
some
the
state
changed
with
the
way
their
collecting
the
online
sales
tax
and
redistributing
that
so
those
are
off
the
top
of
my
head.
You
know,
I
mean
those
are
some
of
the
main
factors,
but
you
know
coming
through
what
we
went
through.
You
know,
I
mean
as
far
as
what
the
chairman
inherited
when
he
started
and
then
with
all
the
Departments
have
done
what
all
the
employees
have
done.
G
You
know
the
electeds,
the
appointed
officials,
you
know
everybody
working
together
to
get
out
of
that
hole
is,
is
you
know
extraordinary?
You
know
from
you
know,
watching
it
from
my
perspective
and
being
able
to
see
us,
you
know
be
able
to
do.
This
is
just-
and
you
know,
hearing
it
for
Moody's
hearing
it
from
the
bond
those
people
that
purchased
our
bonds,
the
people
that
were
involved
selling
our
bonds.
You
know
I
mean
that
everybody
is.
G
J
C
Mr
President
Steve
how
far
back
like
when
they
come
out
to
review
your
rating
for
your
bonds
and
stuff
I
mean
we're
saving
money
because
we're
getting
better
rates
and
everything's
going
well
and
everything's
going
good.
But
how
far
back
do
they
go
when
they
come
out
and
do
like
a
basically
a
credit
check
on
it?
Did
they
go
back
three
four
years
in
your
amounts
or
they
just
go?
You
know
two
or
three
years
or
how
long
is
it
going
to
take
us
to
eliminate
that
shadow
that's
being
cast
from
the
2000?
G
You
know
they
they
do
take
current.
You
know
so
they're
they're,
watching
the
cash
flow.
You
know
the
cash
on
hand,
you
know
I
mean
cash
flow.
They
are
watching
current.
The
other
factors
that
are
kind
of
beyond
our
control
are
local
economic
factors
that
are
built
in
you
know,
I
mean
as
far
as
the
overall,
but
they
take
in
the
manufacturing.
You
know
the
employment,
the
they
take.
A
lot
of
things
come
in,
so
some
some
are
within
our
control.
G
Some
are
not
that
factor
in
you
know
overall
to
the
to
that,
but
they
they
continue
to
watch
our
reserves.
You
know
we're
budgeting,
you
know
not
only
the
fund
balance
but
the
cash
on
hand.
All
of
those
factors
you
know
I
mean
as
far
as
building
so
the
fact
that
we've
gone
up
and
we're
just
you
know:
I
mean
as
far
as
just
one
really
Notch
below
where
we,
where
our
highest
has
been
really
just,
is
determining
on
just
continuing
to
grow
and
stuff.
C
I
mean,
but
if
the
market
recovers
like
on
new
cars,
they
don't
have
hardly
any
new
cars
used.
Cars
nobody's
buying
them
because
they're
too
expensive,
so
are
we
losing
we're
still
doing
good
and
we're
not?
We
don't
have
that
revenue
from
all
those
extra
cars
and
things
that
aren't
being
sold
right
now
is
that
I
mean
that
stuff
reflected
in
your
numbers
that.
G
You
well
I
mean
overall
I'm
unconservative,
you
know,
I
mean
as
far
as
future
numbers,
but
what's
hard
right
now,
with
like
sales
tax.
What
you're
talking
about
is
the
online
stuff
is
now
included.
You
know,
I
mean
so
it's
hard
to
Trend
that,
because
there's
been
a
change
in
the
last
year,
yeah
I
mean
so
it's
it's
now
a
whole
different
Avenue.
So
getting
that
detail
is
they
they?
Don't?
You
got
a
really
dig
in
search
for
and
that
detail
isn't
always
available
because
of
proprietary.
You
know
overall,
so.
L
L
The
VAC
I
see
that
there
and
I
understand
it's
a
separate
board,
but
I
just
want
to
go
ahead
and
highlight
that
that
they're
going
to
go
ahead
and
spend
340
000
more
next
year
than
they
are
currently
this
year,
mainly
on
staff
that
I'm,
seeing
in
this
budget
and
they're
going
to
be
with
about
57
000
you're
projecting
by
the
end
of
the
year
next
year.
At
the
end
of
the
budget,
I
just
want
to
go
ahead
and
point
out
that
I'm
a
little
worried
about
that
one.
So.
G
G
A
C
Sir,
thank
you
Mr
chairman,
didn't
she
say
that
when
they
made
their
move,
that
you
know
you
had
mentioned
that
we
talked
about
you
know
is
this:
you
got
this
or
is
this
under
control
or,
like
you
know,
my
concern
when
I
saw
it
was
that
they
said
it,
what
they're
gonna
be
able
to
do
within
their
beans,
and
now
it's
not
their
means.
So
I
didn't
know
is
that
come
from
canappy
granted
in
from
somebody
somewhere
else,
or
they
were.
A
Yeah,
so
is
that
something
that
we'd
be
happy
to
I'm
sure
to
to
entertain
the
whole
Fiscal
Agent
part
of
it?
If
they
would
have
trouble
maintaining
those
grants,
it
seems
like
we're
starting
to
become
that
for
everybody
Steve's
like
yeah
great
it's
what
we
can
do
to
help
people
that
don't
have
that
skill
set
or
they're,
not
data
certified,
or
you
know
those
types
of
things.
A
A
It's
more
like
Mr
Kerner
is
okay.
Yeah
Chris
is
the
one
who's.
The
grand
manager
Mr
Wilson
is
the
one
who
knows
how
to
speak
the
cceo
that
whole
other
language
that
they
speak
in
that
department.
So
that's
it,
which
is
an
incredible
value
to
us.
So
is
there
any
other
questions?
Yes,
Miss
Weber
thank.
E
G
E
A
A
A
A
A
You
know
the
Shadow's
gone.
You
know
when
in
the
junk
bond
rating
in
2016
has
turned
into
a
prime
rating.
Now
we
started
the
year
in
the
negative
with
as
far
as
cash,
and
then
we
wouldn't
have
cash
in
June.
That's
where
all
the
taws
were
coming.
We
were
spending
last
year's
taxes
to
pay
this
year's
bills.
In
2022
we
started
the
year
funded
no
borrowing,
internally
or
externally.
Investors
are
fighting
over
our
business.
A
We
used
to
be
at
about
200
days,
accounts
payable.
You
just
heard
30
to
45.
local
businesses
on
our
banks,
anymore,
unwilling
bankers
at
that,
and
by
the
way
they
always
got
their
money
back
in
their
interest
on
the
next
job.
So
I
just
want
to
mention
that
we
had
a
negative
4.1
fund
balance
in
2015
up
to
13.1,
you
saw
those
numbers,
that's
a
record
high
waiting
for
taxes
to
pay
off
the
previous
year.
A
Spending
mentioned
that
this
next
two
years
we're
giving
back
two
and
a
half
million
dollars
to
the
taxpayers
coming
right
off
the
bills.
At
that
point,
the
county
was
settled
by
Bond
debt,
low
revenues
and
instability
in
2016
and
the
counties
paid
off
our
debt
and
in
2024
virtually
all
bonded
debt
will
be
retired,
stable,
County
finances.
None
of
this
is
fuzzy.
None
of
this
is
a
you
know,
can
can
sit
out
there
and,
and
it's
all,
backed
up
by
the
numbers
and
the
documentation.
A
It's
all
online
and
we've
done
this
in
the
in
the
wide
open
and
we
haven't
done
it
on
the
backs
of
the
taxpayers.
So,
thanks
to
the
department
heads
thanks
to
the
board,
thanks
for
us
letting
us
say
no
to
everything
that
you
know
when
the
money
comes
in,
people
want
to
spend
it
well,
we
had
to
get
out
of
the
hole
and
now
we're
out
of
the
hole
and
we're
still
not
going
to
spend
it.
E
E
A
The
culture
is
completely
different.
I
think
you
can
tell
that
too
we're
not
at
each
other's
throats
as
department,
heads
or
leaders
in
the
county
completely
different
than
it
used
to
be.
Everybody
was
at
war
with
each
other
back
in
2015
and
2016
when
it
was
at
the
height
of
of
the
really
the
bad
financial
situation
we
were
in,
and
it
was
always
somebody
else's
fault,
and
so
we
made
the
solution
everybody's
solution.
So
thank
you
for
that
to
the
department,
heads
and
really
the
people
that
work
here.
A
G
A
G
This
was
through
budget
discussion
and
and
changes
that
that
they're
doing
has
a
lot
to
do
with
truancy
and
activity.
You
know
within
Kentucky
county,
it's
a
total
of
30
000.
So
in
order
to
get
the
blessing
to
use
20
000
in
FY
23
and
10
000
in
FY
24,
you
know,
we've
been
doing
board
resolution
and
and
blessing
to
make
sure
we've
got
the
arpa
stuff
covered
so
that
that's
what
this
is
about.
A
Truancy,
which
is
an
impact
of
the
one
one
of
the
biggest
I
got
to
be
honest
with
these
kids
is
there's
some
laptops
or
whatever
turned
on
since
this
started
haven't
been
on
since
2020.
they're,
just
not
there
so
I
found
it
appropriate.
Is
there
a
motion
on
this
one
to
to
allow
them
Mr,
hess,
Mrs
Parker?
Second,
any
questions,
roll
call
please.
H
H
A
G
This
is
for
concrete
work
or
for
addition
for
their
area
within
the
recreation
within
their
building,
I
believe
to
provide
a
cleaner
environment
for
the
participants,
so
they're
putting
down
a
poly,
aspartic
flake
system.
So
let's
clean
up
yeah
non-stick
non-stick
or
not
in
a
slip
floor
yeah
overall,
so
they
are
eligible
for
20
000.
A
G
A
A
E
A
A
You
guys
all
voted
on
that
stuff
and
every
one
of
these
is
measured
up
against
that
and
if
it
doesn't
meet
the
standard,
we
even
tell
you
that
and
it
doesn't
meet
the
standard,
and
if
you
want
to
change
the
standards
you
can
as
a
board
and
we've
kind
of
got
out
gone
outside
of
that
I
will
bring
up
Pembroke
Township
as
an
example.
They
got
more
than
the
cap
because
they
don't
have
a
levy.
They
didn't
have
they're
at
Wastewater
in
in
people's
basements.
A
B
G
A
H
A
M
Forger,
sir,
all
right
I
just
wanted
to
bringing
everyone
up
to
date,
since
the
highway
and
buildings
committee
meeting
referred
that
to
this
committee,
the
price
of
the
great
all
hasn't
changed.
I
have
narrowed
down
the
options.
We
had
a
few
at
the
highway
and
building
committee
and
pretty
much
want
to
put
a
down
payment
down
and
finance
it.
We
couldn't
afford
this
in
one
year,
no
matter
what
we
did,
no
matter
what
we
moved
around
so
I've
talked
to
a
banker
and
he
pretty
much
mentioned
crystal
ball.
M
M
M
A
A
M
A
A
Please,
because
if,
if
maybe
Source
well
counts
as
three
bids,
because
they're
soliciting
that
from
the
world
I
don't
know,
but
typically
we
have
to
do
that
or
have
it
documented
that
this
is
the
price
for
this
truck
through
the
state
bid
process,
just
I'm
making
sure
here,
because
I
don't
want
it
to
come
back
that
we
bought
it
from
one
company
and
we
we
didn't
even
look
at
others.
Okay,
thank
you.
So
all
you
need
is
here
from
the
state's
attorney.
That's
it
Mr
Huss
I'd.
H
A
Right
is,
and
now
it
would
be
for
him
to
sign
the
contract
because
we're
ordering
it
for
ordering
it
because
the
contract
probably
binds
us
to
the
to
the
purchase.
Is
that
correct?
Have
you
seen
the
contract
correct?
Okay?
So,
since
we're
not
putting
a
downstroke
I'm
sure
that
they
would
require
some
type
of
agreement,
that
would
allow
us
to
put
it
on
order
and
not
walk
away
from
it.
The.
A
E
M
E
B
A
Motion
carries
let's
see
here:
2023
property
liability,
work,
comp,
inland
marine
and
insurance
renewal,
just
what
everybody
likes
to
talk
about
at
the
end
of
a
long
meeting.
Let's
get
a
motion
first.
Is
there
a
motion
to
approve
the
renewal
first
Mr
featherling
Mr
Fairfield
Anita?
Could
we
run
through
a
couple
things
real,
quick,
thank
you
and
then
then
ask
your
question
when
she's
done
please
thank
you.
K
So
the
page
that's
up
there
right
now,
I
can't
quite
see-
is
that
the
word
comp
page.
So
the
key
thing
I
want
to
make
a
mention
about
the
work
comp
page.
If
you
go
down,
the
top
part
is
all
the
work
classifications.
So
every
one
of
our
employees
is
assigned
a
work
comp
code,
and
so
we
run
estimates
upstairs.
Joanne
essentially
runs
our
payroll
and
we
estimate
what
it's
going
to
be
next
year
and
that's
how
we
estimate
where
the
basis
is.
K
But
if
you
look
down
below
where
we
go
into
the
total
total
payroll
by
classification
in
the
rate
but
experience
modifier
I
want
you
to
look
at
the
difference
between
2020
to
2023.
We
go
from
1.04,
because
what
happens?
Is
you
take
that
number,
the
calculation
of
the
rate
times
the
estimated
payroll,
and
then
you
either
get
an
uptick
or
a
a
reduction
in
that?
Based
on
your
experience
and
in
2020,
we
were
at
an
experience
modifier
of
1.04,
which
means
we
had
an
extra
four
percent
increase.
K
K
So
if
you
look
at
this
summary
page
really
what
you're
seeing
then
on
top
is
the
total
premium
you're
looking
at
liability
on
top
property
values,
Auto
and
vehicle
Etc
that
comes
in
at
a
million
404
down
below
we
go
into
work
comp,
which
shows
a
reduction
of
seven
percent,
and
then
we
have
the
total
of
all
the
policies.
Together
is
2
million
56
666,
it's
an
8.9
percent
increase
over
last
year,
understanding
that
we've
got
an
inflation
rate
somewhere
around
eight
two
to
eight
five.
K
So
really
the
way
it
worked
out
with
some
tough
conversations
we
came
in
at
8.9
percent
right
below
that
you'll
see
that
additional
coverage
option
we
talked
about
this
last
year.
We
could
get
to
5.04.
That
is
if
we
change
our
jail
liability,
deductible
and
Kelly.
You
want
to
flip
to
that
next
page.
We
we're
currently,
oh
not
that
page,
the
one
that
looks
like
this
there.
K
You
go
we're
currently
at
a
15,
000,
deductible
on
any
jail
liability
claim,
and
if
we
move
to
a
25
000
deductible,
we
would
be
able
to
save
money.
Now.
What
I
want
to
make
clear
is
the
average
that
difference
between
fifteen
thousand
and
twenty
five
thousand,
that
average
over
four
years
is
fifty
nine
thousand
dollars
and
the
difference
in
the
premium
would
be
64.9
so
65
000..
So
what
we
would
save
by
taking
this
Gamble
is
five
thousand
dollars.
A
We
look
at
that
move
next
year,
once
we
have
a
year
under
the
safety
act,
heaven
forbid
it
ends
up
happening,
but
if
we
do,
then
we
at
least
have
some
idea
on
what
that
cost
is
going
to
be.
So
it
was
really
up
to
the
committee.
The
people
that
made
the
motion
is
the
motion
that
you're
making
for
staying
with
the
deductible
we
have
or
increasing
it
to
potentially
save
five
grand,
maybe
stay
where
we're
at.
Is
that
reflected?
Okay?
So
that's
the
motion
staying
where
we're
at
on
the
deductible
at
15..