►
Description
Planning, Zoning & Agriculture Committee Meeting 1/20/2021 9:00 AM
E
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Do
we
have
any
public
comment
kelly
and
I
no
tell
them
on
the
back
and
then
register
for
anything,
okay,
okay,
we'll
get
the
approval
of
minutes
and
I'd
like
to
combine
that
with
the
building
report,
so
we'll
get
a
motion
to
approve
them
both
and
then
we'll
vote
when
delaware's
done.
G
G
G
A
A
D
A
You,
okay.
First
up
for
zoning
tonight
we
have
a
zba
case,
20-06,
a
request
for
a
variance
to
section
121-286,
c1
driveway
interval
in
the
a1
agricultural
district,
on
a
parcel
generally
situated
in
section
14
of
limestone
township.
The
petitioner
is
william
d,
norton
property
owner
and
applicant
okay.
Dell.
You
want
to
give
away.
Can
you
switch
the.
G
Okay,
there
you
go,
you
want
a
page
down,
I
put
a
black
there,
you
go
page
in
between
all
right.
This
is
a
request
from
mr
william
norton
for
a
a
second
driveway
within
a
330
foot
interval
along
2000
south
road
in
limestone
township,
mr
norton
owns
the
property
outlined
in
red.
He
also
owns
the
property
to
the
left
of
that.
Currently,
access
to
both
of
these
properties
is
through
the
parcel
on
the
left.
If
you
look
up
there
along
the
road,
you
can
see
the
little
driveway
going
into
it.
G
C
C
G
C
C
A
A
A
D
G
Want
a
motion
before
I
present
or
do
you
want
me
to
present?
Go
ahead?
Okay,
this
property
is
in
southern
aroma
township.
It
is
currently
a
130
acre,
I
believe,
parcel
outlined
in
red
there,
plus,
if
you
see
the
little
green
area
up
by
the
finger.
That's
the
house,
the
farmstead.
That
is
actually
on
that
same
hundred
and
thirty
acres,
it's
owned
by
darlena
mann.
She
she
is
now
in
a
nursing
home
and
can
no
longer
live
in
the
house.
G
I
G
G
B
G
C
A
A
B
A
C
D
A
F
G
E
And
to
not
walk
up
to
the
tvs,
I'm
watching
the
stream,
the
public
can't
tell
what
you're
doing
at
all.
Okay
and
the
zone.
People
can
only
see
out
there
on
the
camera,
so
they
always
do
it.
So
just
please
make
sure
you
speak
into
the
microphone
just
so
the
public
can
hear
you
all
right.
I
know
you're
not
aware
of
that.
That's
why
I
came.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
sir
okay.
I
said
again
we're
gonna.
Do
something
a
little
different
this
time
as
I'm
gonna.
Let
you
ask
questions
as
we
go,
so
we
don't
get
all
piled
up
at
the
end
delver's
going
to
roll
over
a
few
things,
talk
about
wind
and
solar
and
the
things
on
the
agenda,
introduction
and
zoning,
and
things
like
that.
So
as
we
go
we'll
change
topics
and
then
we'll
get
everybody
get
a
chance
to
ask
as
we
go.
A
G
Agency
has
developed
a
very
extensive
study,
comparing
renewable
energy
revenue
and
ranking
ranking
counties
by
the
amount
of
revenue
generated.
It's
an
economic
impact
report
which
I
included
in
your
packets.
It's
a
couple
hundred
pages.
I
believe
I'm
just
going
to
do
a
summary
on
it
today.
One
thing
of
interest
in
the
report
is
hersher.
School
district
did
make
the
top
50
list
of
revenue
being
generated
by
wind
or
solar
in
hersher's
instance.
It
is
wind.
G
21
counties
in
illinois
have
received
a
combined
306
million
in
property
tax
payments,
including
193
million
for
schools
from
wind
and
solar
projects.
You
can
flip
to
the
next
one
kelly,
also
in
your
packet.
They
did
a
summary,
a
two-page
summary
sheet,
which
is
what
I
page
page
one
is
on.
The
left.
Page
two
is
on
the
right
of
all
the
highlights
of
the
study
they're
expecting
2.46
billion
in
property
tax
revenue
over
the
expected
life
of
these
projects,
which
is
usually
20
to
30
year
expectancy.
G
G
G
A
Anyone
have
any
questions
about
that
particular
topic,
so
that
people
know
I
had
a
quick
question
for
delbert
is
if
we
go
completely
to
renewable
energy,
what's
going
to
happen
to
the
tax
revenue
from
the
nuclear
power
plants
that
aren't
being
used?
Is
that
going
to
kill
areas
like
I
am
no
taxes
or
anything.
G
G
That's
the
study
I
I
I
would
recommend
that
maybe
you
look
through
the
study
and
come
back
with
any
questions
you
might
have
at
the
next
meeting.
If
there
are
any
it's
a
pretty
extensive
study,
the
two
graphs
on
the
lower
right
are
job
creation
and
drought.
You
know
job
growth
during
construction
periods
and
during
operations
you
can
see
the
during
operations
to
2033
there's
a
significant
increase
in
job
growth.
C
Question
say:
there's
a
20
30
year,
life
expectancy
and
at
some
point
the
jobs
and
stuff
that
being
created
will
go
away
unless
they're
able
to
rebuild
on
that
site
again.
If
they,
if
they're
not,
they
would
have
to
find
another
site.
I
believe,
in
order
to
basically
extend
that
revenue
for
another
20
or
30
years.
G
G
They
could
extend
it
indefinitely,
but
there's
a
whole
lot
of
factors
in
the
private
industry
that
would
I'm
sure,
be
considered
before
they
would
do
that.
You
know
just
cost
and
revenue
and
things
of
that
nature,
but
conceivably.
Yes,
they
could
extend
them
indefinitely,
just
by
repot.
They
call
it
repowering
okay,
same
thing
with
the
wind,
they
can
actually
repower
put
new
heads
on
top
of
the
towers
and
on
the
wind
and
maintain
those
indefinitely
as
well.
A
And
then
one
of
the
questions
we
ask
in
one
of
the
20-some
meetings
that
we
had
about
the
solar
farms.
Is
that
what
happens
when
they
do
reach
that
point?
Where
they're
not
producing
enough
to
pay
for
themselves?
They
are.
They
say
that
they
recycle
those
panels.
They
don't
just
throw
them
in
the
garbage
and
reuse
them.
Most
of
the
companies
said
they
ship
them
to
other
countries
and
sell
them
at
we're.
A
Understanding
like
south
america
and
peru,
and
places
like
that
where
they
don't
need
the
efficiency
that
we
have
to
have
around
here
and
send
it
shipping
them
off
down
there
and
letting
them
use
them
there
and
then
updating
the
system
here
with
the
newer
stuff.
So
it
doesn't
create
a
bunch
of
garbage
for
landfills
and
recycled
places
and
stuff.
G
That
is
situational,
they
are
electronic
waste,
so
they
can't
be
just
put
into
a
landfill,
but
in
many
cases
just
because
they're,
not
powering
or
they're,
not
operating
at
maximum
capacity
for
a
solar
farm
does
not
mean
that
they
cannot
be
installed
on
someone's
roof
or
reutilized
in
a
different
manner.
Yes,
mr
kirkstrom,
yes,
I
think.
I
Another
point
to
be
made
is
that
these
solar
panels,
these
solar
panels
and
the
wind
energy,
the
the
land
that
which
they're
being
placed
on
un,
unlike
some
of
our
other
forms
of
electrical
generation,
which
I
am
actively
involved
in
maintaining
and
rejuvenating,
but
where
we
use
our
fossil
fuels.
Unfortunately,
the
land
that
these
plants
are
are
built
on.
I
It
takes
a
lot
of
cleanup
if
these
places
do
shut
down
or
for
some
reason
go
out
of
business.
It
takes
a
lot
to
bring
that
land
back
to
its
original
use
or
purpose
with
our
the
green
energies
that
that
we
are
using
as
they
would
refer
to
them,
such
as
our
wind
and
solar.
If
the
time
does
come
in
their
20
or
30
year,
life
expectancy
and
it's
no
longer
a
desire
or
a
need
to
have
those
facilities
there.
I
A
I
also
went
and
walked
quite
a
few
of
the
sites.
It's
not
exactly
the
best
farmland
we
have
around
the
county
that
they're
using
for
these
particular
facilities.
So
that's
something
to
consider
too.
So
it
looks
to
me
like
they're
building
one
in
mantino
like
they
just
yes
pull
those
steel
right
out
of
the
ground
and
grade
it
back
down
and
do
what
they
can.
You
know
farm-wise.
G
I
A
H
That's
the
increase
in
the
taxation
sure
there's
a
problem
with
the
turbines.
Those
are
landfilled
and
that's
an
issue
that
we're
gonna
have
to
get
over
as
the
industry
matures
we
have
to
figure
that
out,
but
the
the
impact
that
this
has
on
on
a
local
economy.
There
shouldn't
be
any
misgivings
about
that.
It
is
a
good
thing
financially,
but
know
that
when
you
say
like
hirscher,
I
believe
their
state
allocation
was
reduced
based
on
the
amount
of
taxation
they
got
in
from
the
wind
towers.
H
H
Not
extra
money
it
may
offset
and
push
money
out
back
to
the
state.
So
and
then
the
final
thing
is
is
that
when
we
say
they,
the
solar
farm
company,
the
decisions
are
being
made
by
the
people
who
own
the
land,
okay,
they're,
the
ones
who
say
I
want
to
grow
energy
instead
of
corn
and
beans,
or
this
sandy
soil
is
not
productive.
H
I
hope
I
explain
that
properly
because
it's
landowners
making
this
decision,
it's
no
company
coming
in
and
saying
we're
going
to
steal
all
the
farmland
and
put
up.
You
know
this
lush
farmland
to
put
up
solar
farms,
there's
a
buyer
and
a
seller
and
then
we're
just
the
ones
who
say
is
this
done
by
the
regulations
and
the
proper
steps?
Is
this
the
proper?
You
know,
criteria
that
we
use
for
siding.
H
G
No
you're
looking
at
does
does
the
project
meet
our
regulations.
Has
it
met
the
process
for
for
approval?
That's
that's
really
what
you're
looking
at
and
it's
from
a
zoning
standpoint,
so
the
recycling
of
the
of
the
materials
later
on
and
where
they
might
go
to
a
landfill,
while
that
is
a
good
subject
to
discuss,
is
really
not
a
zoning
issue.
G
H
H
G
Every
month,
I'm
going
to
try
to
give
you
guys
a
informational
presentation
that
might
help
you
to
better
understand
what
the
planning
department
does
and
some
of
the
process
and
hopefully
help
you
make
better
decisions,
or
at
least
the
best
decision
you
can.
Today.
I've
chosen
the
zoning
process,
as
we
have
some
new
members
in
the
committee
and
on
the
board
that
might
benefit,
as
they
may
or
may
not
actually
know
the
ins
and
outs
of
zoning.
G
G
Types
of
zoning
actions
that
you're
going
to
see
a
map
amendment
commonly
referred
to
as
a
rezoning.
That
is
when
somebody
actually
wants
to
change
the
zoning
on
their
property.
You
have
a
residential
property
and
want
to
do
a
commercial
use.
You
would
have
to
rezone
to
commercial,
so
that
would
be
a
map.
Amendment
or
rezoning
text.
Amendments,
as
I
previously
stated,
are
amendments
to
the
actual
ordinance
itself.
G
Special
use
permits
sometimes
called
conditional
use
permits.
Our
ordinance
calls
them
special
use
permits.
It
does
not
change
the
zoning
of
the
property,
but
allows
for
a
use.
That
is
a
little
more
intensive
than
what
would
normally
be
allowed
in
that
district
and
thus
requires
special
permission
to
be
established.
G
Okay,
for
whatever
aspect
like
well,
let's
say
like
a
church,
is
a
special
use
permit
in
the
residential
district.
Churches
are
generally
compatible
with
residential
areas,
but
sometimes
because
of
traffic
or
things
like
that.
The
board
would
want
to
scrutinize
that
to
make
sure
that
the
proper
traffic
patterns
have
been
adhered
to
and
make
sure
that
any
safety
issues
are
addressed.
G
You
cannot
get
a
variance
for
use
if
your
use
does
not
fit
within
the
district.
You
need
to
change
the
district,
not
a
variance
okay,
so
you
would
request
a
variance
if
you
cannot
meet
the
bulk
regulations
and
we'll
get
into
some
of
the
ins
and
outs
of
that
in
a
little
bit
and
another
which
the
zoning
board
would
hear.
G
But
this
committee,
or
the
county
board,
would
not
hear
is
appeals
from
administrative
decisions,
an
appeal
from
administrative
decisions
when
somebody
does
not
agree
with
the
planning
department's
interpretation
or
decision
on
a
zoning
matter
and
would
like
to
take
it
to
a
higher
to
a
higher
power.
And
that
would
be
the
zoning
board
of
appeals.
But
they
are
the
final
decision
hockey.
A
G
G
No,
it's
only
happened
twice
in
my
30
years
here
and,
generally
speaking,
they
would
come
up
with
their
own
findings,
because
the
findings
for
zoning
cases
don't
necessarily
meet
the
criteria
for
an
appeal
for
a
text.
Amendment
okay
or
administrative
decision,
so
yeah
that
that's
happened
twice
once
was
a
interpretation
on
a
piece
of
equipment
at
a
junkyard
as
to
whether
that
was
a
it
was
a
legal
non-conforming
use
and
whether
adding
that
equipment
that
was
never
there
before
to
crush
cars
was
an
expansion
of
the
legal
non-conforming
use.
H
C
G
H
G
You
would
go
to
the
zoning
board
of
appeals
first
and
have
your
appeal
there
right.
Okay,
once
you've
exhausted
that
process
and
you're
still
not
happy
with
it,
then
you
have
the
courts.
Okay,
the
courts
would
actually
be
the
final
say.
I
guess
I
was
right,
but
as
far
as
our
process
goes,
that
would
stop
with
the
zoning
board
of
appeals.
A
Okay,
I
kind
of
want
to
you
mentioned
special
use
there
for
a
second,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
everybody
knows
that
special
use
is
the
only
type
of
zoning
where
we
can
put
a
certain
restrictions
on
that
piece
of
property.
Like
we
can
say,
you
can
be
open
from
eight
to
five
or
you
can't
park
on
the
street.
You've
got
to
pay
to
you
know.
Driveway
has
to
be
paid,
you
have
to
supply
parking
just
that
type
of
thing,
and
each
individual
case
requires
different
things
to
read
restrictions.
A
G
It's
called
right.
That
is
correct.
It
would
be
kind
in
any
other
instance,
it
would
be
contract
zoning
and
that
would
be
illegal,
yeah.
Full
disclosure
john
used
to
be
the
chairman
of
the
zoning
board
of
appeals.
So
he
knows
quite
a
bit
of
this
and
planned
unit
developments
which
are
technically
by
our
ordinance
a
a
special
use
permit,
but
they
are
handled
much
much
differently.
We
have
two
planned
unit.
Developments
in
the
county,
one
is
the
diversitech
campus
and
the
other
one
is
the.
What's
it
called
it's.
G
G
That
is
when
a
use
was
legally
established
and
was
legal
at
the
time
of
its
creation.
Maybe
it's
been
there
before
1967
when
our
ordinance
went
into
effect,
so
it's
legally
allowed
to
stay
there,
but
it
just
doesn't
conform
with
today's
standards.
So
it's
allowed
to
stay,
as
is
where
is
but
when
they
start
to
make
changes
to
it.
If
they
want
to
expand
on
the
building
or
expand
the
use,
then
they
must
come
into
compliance
with
the
current
ordinance.
G
G
J
I'm
trying
to
come
up
with
an
example
of
this.
Would
this
be
like
a
residential
neighborhood,
where
a
young,
lady
or
gentleman
wants
to
operate
a
beauty
parlor
in
their
home
and
that
would
increase
the
traffic
count?
Would
that
be
legal
non-conforming,
because
there's
a
commercial
business
in
a
residential
area.
G
So
there's
a
lot
of
houses
along
that
road
that
are
zoned
commercial
you're
not
allowed
to
have
a
house
in
the
commercial
district.
So
all
of
those
houses
because
they
were
existing-
are
legal
non-conforming
I
see,
but
so
that
limits
what
they
can
do
to
those
houses.
They
can
certainly
use
those
houses
as
houses
till
they
fall
down,
but
they
can't
expand.
You
wanted
to
add
an
addition
to
that
house.
Can't
do
it.
That's
an
expansion
of
illegal
non-conforming
use.
D
G
G
G
Most
people
think
spot
zoning
is
a
small
little
parcel,
there's
no
size
limitation
and
you
could
have
a
60
acre
spot
zoning.
Basically,
what
that
is
is
let's
say
I
own
60
acres
out
in
the
middle
of
rockville
township,
which
is
all
agriculture,
but
for
some
reason
I
want
to
establish
a
commercial
business
there.
G
G
Our
comprehensive
plan
merely
shows
that
area
as
look
at
it
right
now,
as
for
urban
development,
so
houses
residential
could
be
urban
development
over
there,
okay
and
that,
in
fact,
I
think
there
is
a
subportion
of
the
plan
that
speaks
of,
and
it's
not
spot
zoning.
Because
of
this,
we
have
an
overabundance
of
residential
and
commercial
zoning
in
that
particular
township,
for
whatever
reason
in
1967
they
made
almost
the
entire
township,
either
residential
or
commercial.
G
I
don't
know
what
big
dreams
they
had
at
that
time,
but
it
never
occurred.
50
years
later,
it
still
hasn't
occurred.
Okay,
so
our
plan
did
address
that
and
said
at
every
opportunity.
We
should
down
zone
that
to
something
more
appropriate,
so
it's
not
spot
zoning.
We
are
following
our
plan.
Could
we
have
done
the
entire
strip?
Certainly,
but
that
would
require
the
cooperation
of
every
property
owner.
G
G
G
G
G
G
Each
one
of
them
also
has
a
list
of
special
use
permits
that
are
allowable
within
that,
with
special
permission
by
the
board.
Again,
if
your
special
use
is
not
on
that
list,
so
first
we
check
the
permitted
uses.
Then
we
check
to
see
if
it's
a
special
use,
if
it
doesn't
show
up
on
either
of
those
lists,
then
rezoning
is
appropriate.
G
Okay,
any
questions
on
our
districts.
I
didn't
want
to
dwell
too
far
on
all
of
those
we
could
be
here
till
four
o'clock.
If
we
wanted
to
be
okay,
part
of
our
ordinance
is
the
zoning
map
that
accompanies
our
ordinance,
and
it
is
changed
time
to
time
that,
through
the
map
amendments,
we
go
one
step
farther
with
our
map
and
we
actually
show
all
special
use
permits
and
all
variances
just
for
a
mechanism
of
tracking
all
of
them
very
easily.
G
G
Me
and
the
official
map
is
kept
in
the
planning
department
and
we
file
a
copy
with
the
county
clerk.
So
if
you
ever
need
a
certified
copy,
the
county
clerk
is
the
person
to
go
to
okay
next
text
amendments
not
going
to
dwell
on
this
too
much.
That
is,
I
said
if,
for
some
reason,
there's
a
part
of
the
ordinance.
It
is
our
ordinance
so
within
the
scope
of
the
law,
this
the
board
can
make
the
ordinance
say
whatever
it
would
like
to
say
as
long
as
they're,
not
violating
any
other
statutes
or
laws.
G
So
from
time
to
time
it
does
get
changed
and
probably
about
once
every
two
years
there's
some
type
of
change
that
occurs.
Last
comprehensive
chain
change
was
1996
where
it
was.
There
was
a
multitude
of
changes.
Okay.
Next,
any
any
questions
on
that.
Any
questions,
no
okay,
okay,
all
right-
and
this
just
goes
down
when
the
ordinance
ordinance
was
first
established
in
1967
the
last
one
was
last
major
update
was
1996
and
I
think
I've
already
covered
most
of
that.
Okay.
Next,
I
kind
of
covered
this.
G
One
too
special
use
permits
every
district.
Each
of
the
10
districts
has
a
list
of
special
use
permits
that
are
associated
with
it.
I've
said
if
it's
not
on
that
list,
you
cannot
do
it
in
that
district.
You
cannot
just
add
a
specialty
just
because
if
it's
not
allowed
in
the
district,
it's
not
just
automatically
a
special
use
permit
in
that
district.
I
get
that
question
quite
a
bit,
but
can
we
just
get
a
special
use
for
it?
No,
it
has
to
be
on
that
list.
A
They're
up
to
you,
but
if
anyone
has
the
questions
about
what's
on
the
list
under
each
zoning
topic,
you
can
go
on
the
zoning
board
website.
You
can
read
that
and
you
can
see
the
lists
that
are
allowed
in
those
particular
districts.
So
if
something's
coming
in
and
you're
questioning,
you
don't
know
for
sure
if
it's
on
there,
you
can
go
on
the
zoning
ordinance
and
you
can
look
and
see
exactly
what's
on
there.
That's
one.
G
There's
always
that
question
so
commercial
district
has
150
permitted,
uses
sorry
and
it's
a
little
outdated
because
it
doesn't
necessarily
take
into
into
account
some
more
modern
things,
such
as
internet
sales
and
stuff,
like
that,
still
mail
order,
sales
places
and
things,
but
it
also
there's
also
an
out
in
there.
It
says
or
similar
use,
so
we
can
also
compare.
G
G
I
cannot
meet
the
ordinance
for
whatever
reason,
as
you
seen
two
today,
they
they
could
not
physically
meet
the
ordinance
so
they're
asking
for
special
permission
not
to
meet
the
ordinance
that
permission
comes
with.
It
is
that
they
need
to
justify
that
need
and
that's
called
a
hardship.
They
have
to
prove
their
hardship
if
they
cannot
prove
their
hardship
of
why
they
can't
do
it,
then
the
variance
should
be
denied
if
there's
a
way
for
them
to
achieve
their
goal
and
have
their
project
and
still
meet
the
law,
the
ordinance.
G
G
He
didn't
want
to
build
the
extra
length
of
driveway
to
get
back
to
the
pole,
barn
because
it
would
have
cost
him
more
money
and
wanted,
and
that
was
denied
because
there
was
no
hardship
there.
Could
he
build
it
and
meet
the
ordinance?
Yes,
he
could
so
one
thing
when
it
comes
to
variances.
You
would
really
want
to
be
looking
at
hardship.
G
A
G
G
The
applicant
applies
for
the
zoning
action
me
and
my
staff
have
five
days
to
review
the
application
to
make
sure
it's
complete.
We
are
not
looking
for
any
particular
accuracy,
just
that
make
sure
that
all
boxes
have
been
filled
out
properly
and
that
they
have
all
the
adjoining
property
owners
and
things
like
that.
Then
we
schedule
the
public
hearing.
G
I
generate
a
staff
report
on
what
the
county's
opinions
are
on
the
case
as
it
relates
to
what
the
ordinance
says,
not
my
personal
opinions,
not
in
any
way
shape
or
form
to
try
to
sway
any
type
of
decision,
just
what
the
ordinance
and
what
the
facts
of
the
case
are,
as
we
see
them
by
the
application.
It's
just
a
guide
for
the
board
15
days
prior
to
that
public
hearing,
a
notice
is
put
in
the
newspaper
and
notice
to
adjoining
property
owners
are
sent
out
by
certified
mail
is
by
law.
G
All
the
surrounding
property
owners
must
be
notified
and
we
must
for
those
that
are
not
surrounding
property
owners.
That's
what
the
notice
in
the
newspaper
is
for.
Okay,
then,
because
of
a
little
bit
of
a
glitch
in
our
rules
of
procedure,
which
I
still
need
to
get
changed
seven
days
prior,
we
send
out
those
notices
again:
okay,
so
everybo
every
surrounding
property
owner
gets
noticed
twice.
G
Then
the
zoning
board
of
appeals
holds
their
public
hearing
and
the
case
is
recorded
by
a
court
reporter.
So
there's
always
a
transcript
of
the
zoning
case
and
whatever
recommendation
they
are,
in
most
cases
they're
only
making
a
recommendation,
not
a
decision.
There
are
a
few
times,
such
as
the
appeals
process
and
variances
of
less
than
10,
where
they
are
the
final
decision
maker
other
than
that
they
just
make
a
recommendation
to
the
board,
based
on
the
findings
of
fact
as
to
what
they
they
see.
G
The
outcome
should
be
recommend
to
approve,
recommend
to
deny
ultimately-
and
then
that
goes
to
this
committee
planning
and
zoning
committee,
and
then
you
have
the
option
of
either
agreeing
with
the
zoning
board
of
appeals
disagreeing
with
the
zoning
board
of
appeals.
Now,
if
you
disagree
with
them,
you
have
a
couple
of
options
there.
G
You
can
either
write
your
own
findings
of
fact
that
are
in
contrary
to
what
the
zoning
board
came
up
with
or
you
can
send
it
back
to
the
zoning
board
for
more
deliberation.
If
you
don't
feel
that
they
gathered
as
much
information
as
they
should
have,
assuming
that
it
goes
through
planning
and
zoning
okay,
then
it
would
go
on
to
the
full
county
board
for
the
final
decision.
Full
county
board
also
has
the
option
of
agreeing
or
disagreeing
or
sending
it
back
any
questions
on
that
process.
G
Questions
on
that
yeah,
the
application-
I'm
just
gonna-
touch
on
a
few
points
here.
We
have
to
make
sure
it's
got
the
proper
signatures,
owners,
names,
applicant's,
name,
proper
property
information,
proper
legal
description.
These
are
all
fatal
flaws
that
could
cause
a
case
to
be
thrown
out
if,
if
those
things
are
not
correct
and
each
applicant
is
required
to
give
us
their
own
version
of
the
findings
of
fact
of
how
they
feel
their
project
meets
the
findings.
A
G
Those
words
come
up
a
lot
three:
more
slides,
okay,
okay,
I'll
wait
till
the
end.
I've
got
it
in
somewhat
of
an
order
and
we
could
be
all
over
the
place.
I
don't
know
in
fact,
we'll
probably
skip
the
next
two.
It's
the
public
hearing
process,
which
is
really
more
important
to
the
zoning
board
than
to
this,
but
basically
at
the
public
hearing
process,
the
applicant
has
the
opportunity
to
present
their
case
with
all
of
their
evidence
and
all
of
their
reasons.
G
G
G
You
cannot
just
say
I
approve
it
because
I
like
it,
because
I
feel
it's
great.
You
need
to
just
it's
the
justification
of
why
you're
approving
it
or
why
you're
denying
it
that's
what
findings
a
fact
are
you're
listing
out
the
evidence,
as
you
heard
it,
and
why
you
feel
that
that
evidence
supports
an
approval
or
a
denial,
whichever
direction
you
want
to
go
and
the
findings
of
fact
come
from
actual
court
cases
where
the
judge
said,
in
fact
it
was
bank
of
lasalle
versus,
I
think
the
city
of
chicago.
G
That's
why
they're
called
also
referred
to
as
lasalle
factors
that
established
the
judge
established
that
you
can't
be
arbitrary
in
your
decisions
when
it
comes
to
zoning
and
that
you
must
base
it
on
facts
and
they
actually
came
up
with
a
list
of
six
facts
that
would
be
appropriate.
Those
have
since
been
expanded
and
tweaked
that
was
back
in
1968.
G
G
G
G
All
of
that
evidence
must
be
presented
in
a
public
hearing.
That's
why
we
do
not
allow
testimony
and
evidence
at
planning
and
zoning
or
the
county
board
only
at
the
zoning
board
hearing.
So
that
would
be
a
reason
why
you
would
want
to
send
something
back
to
zoning
board.
If
you
think
more,
testimony
is
needed
because
it
cannot
be
heard
here,
because
all
parties
don't
have
the
same
opportunity.
G
So
so
that's
the
only
time
that
ev
new
evidence
can
be
presented.
So
if
a
new
evidence
needs
to
be
presented,
it
has
to
go
back
to
the
zoning
board.
Each
case
must
develop
findings
of
fact.
Some
are
more
extensive
than
others.
I've
seen
some
that
were
half
a
page
and
I've
seen
some
that
were
20
pages.
It
just
depends
on
the
complexity
of
the
case.
G
And
these
findings
must
support
the
facts
of
the
case
and
any
subsequent
recommendations
must
be
based
on
a
preponderance
of
the
evidence,
facts
and
there
is
no
place
for,
like
said
opinion,
speculation,
personality,
emotions
or
feelings.
It
is
strictly
based
on
the
facts
and
that's
what
your
decision
should
be
based
on.
Okay,
next.
G
G
Variances
have
four
findings,
the
number
one
being
the
hardship,
whereas
special
use
permits
have
six
findings
and
the
other
ones
have
between
nine
and
ten,
depending
on
which
one
you're
looking
at,
and
those
are
specific
questions
that
are
tailored
for
that
particular
type
of
request,
and
all
findings
must
be
met
in
order
to
render
a
positive
verdict
if
they
do
not
if
they
do
not
meet
one
of
the
findings.
If
there's
nine
findings
that
applicant
to
get
an
approval
should
meet
all
nine
findings,
they
only
meet
eight.
E
A
G
Thank
you.
I
said
I
could
talk
for
hours,
trying
to
keep
it
as
short
as
possible
recommendations.
I
think
I've
already
covered
this.
Basically
at
each
each
each
level
till
we
get
to
county
board,
a
recommendation
is
made
and
the
the
the
following
board
can
either
agree
with
that
recommendation
or
make
their
own
recommendation.
G
G
C
G
G
Well,
actually,
next,
what
should
I
not
do
ex
parte
communications
while
a
case
is
active?
You
should
not
discuss
any
aspect
of
that
case
with
anyone
outside
of
the
public
hearing.
Okay,
the
only
exceptions
are
myself.
I
have
no
part
in
the
decision-making
process,
so
if
you
have
questions
about
a
case
or
our
ordinance,
you
can
certainly
talk
to
me
and
you
can
certainly
talk
to
legal
counsel.
G
Do
not
discard
your
notes
or
other
documents
for
a
case
just
because
you
made
a
recommendation
to
approve.
It
does
not
mean
that
the
county
board
or
the
next
board
up
will.
It
may
come
back
to
you,
so
you
may
want
to
hold
on
to
your
notes
and
your
thoughts
until
the
county
board
decision
is
made
and
even
then,
after
the
county
board
decision
is
made
on
rare
instances.
It
can
end
up
in
the
court
system
too,
because
somebody
didn't
agree
with
the
county
board.
G
G
E
G
G
G
G
And
so,
if
ex
parte
communication
does
occur,
then
not
all
parties
will
have
the
same
information
and
basically
ex
parte
communication
violates
the
constitutional
guarantee
of
due
process.
You
are,
you
are
taking
due
process
away
from
one
side
or
the
other
on
the
case.
If
you
involve
yourself
in
ex
parte
communications
and
it
undermines
the
fairness
of
the
proceedings
and
sometimes
it's
not
the
existence
of
it.
As
I
said
in
mr
snipes
example,
there,
sometimes
it's
the
perception
of
it.
G
G
G
G
Variances
and
appeals
for
administrative
decisions
are
quasi-judicial
amendments.
However,
rezonings
are
legislative
because
the
map
is
part
of
the
ordinance,
so
it
really
depends
on
what
action
is
before
you
as
to
whether
you
should
gather
information
outside
the
public.
It's
best
not
to
do
it
at
all.
Honestly,.
G
H
H
Just
as
a
tag,
if
you're
a
lot
of
people
on
the
committee
are
within
municipalities,
so
those
municipalities
have
their
own
zoning
offices.
But
if
you
go
outside
of
the
municipalities,
we
are
the
counties
planning
office,
there's
as
county
board.
Members
are
like
I'm
looking
at
the
list.
You
know.
Obviously
mr
fretherling
he's
got
a
little
of
both
municipal
and
country.
If
you
will
mr
miller
the
same.
H
Obviously,
mr
smith,
mr
rakoff,
mr
fairfield,
that
we
are
their
office,
you
know,
and
so
we
get
more
active
in
the
rural
areas
in
direct
constituent
conversations
because
they
just
can't
go
into
the
to
the
city
hall.
If
you
will,
we
are
the
city
hall.
Dell
is
city
hall
at
that
point,
and
so
one
of
the
the
x
the
problems
with
with
ex
parte
is,
is
you
don't
know
you're
having
it
until
you're
having
it?
You
know
what
I
mean
it
could
be
you're
just
talking
about
something
all
of
a
sudden.
H
They
say
something
all
you
have
to
do
is
disclose
it.
It's
happened
before
just
disclose
it
and
you
just
read
it
in
the
email
or
not
an
email
but
read
it
in
the
meeting,
but
the
one
thing
that's
always
bothered
me
has
been
at
pza
and
at
the
full
board
public
comment,
because
public
comment
is
not
evidence
and
we
want
the
public
to
make
comment.
Yet
in
those
quasi-judicial
settings
people
can
stay
say
up
there.
H
I've
got
this
study
that
says
x,
y
and
z,
and
but
that's
not
vetted
evidence
and
I've
seen
boards
get
swung
by
that,
because
you
don't
the
the
person
who
file
it
has
just
as
much
rights
as
the
objector.
So
when
you
can't
ask
questions
of
public
comment,
you
see
how
that's
a
real
problem.
It
can
sway
a
board
emotionally
on
the
day
of
it.
So
I
would
say
be
careful
because
those
types
of
things
either
can
end
up
in
court.
H
Your
yes
vote
can
be
turned
into
a
no
vote,
because
you
talk
to
somebody
something
that
you
may
or
may
not
have
thought
should
have
passed.
You
voted
no
well,
then
it
gets
reversed
because
there
was
ex
parte
communications
or
your.
Your
decision
wasn't
based
on
the
manifest
weight
of
the
evidence,
is
that
probably
yeah.
G
Do
you
have
that
same
concern?
We
are
required
to
have
public
comments
right,
there's
nothing
we
can
do
about
that.
I
hope
that
the
board
would
understand
that.
That
is
exactly
what
it
is,
though,
that
it
is
public
comment
and
should
be
scrutinized
as
to
its
accuracy
and
truthfulness
because
it
doesn't
have
to
be
because
it's
not
vetted
one
thing
you
you
do.
I
did
skip
over
on
the
public
hearing
process.
G
Every
person
must
be
sworn
in
just
like
a
court,
so
they
are
swearing
that
what
they're
saying
is
the
truth,
nothing
but
the
truth
and
they
could
be
held
for
perjury
if
they
don't.
Okay,
public
comment
doesn't
have
those
same
rules.
Various
counties
handle
it
differently.
Some
put
their
public
comment
at
the
end
of
the
meeting
so
that
it
doesn't
sway
any
decision
of
that.
G
H
G
G
G
With
the
permission
of
the
chairman,
they
can,
but
I
always
caution
both
the
objectors
and
the
applicants,
to
only
speak
about
what
was
said
at
the
hearing
and
that
that
that's
a
little
bit
of
a
slippery
slope
too,
because
once
you
give
them
the
microphone
it's
hard
to
show
what
they
can
say.
So
it's
best
not
to
okay,
but
I
have
to
say
in
some
of
the
more
complicated
cases
I
have
we've
had
the
applicants,
because
there
was
no
way
I
could
adequately
present
everything
that
occurred.
G
G
Valuations
and
things
like
that,
you
know
you
want
pga
to
hear
that
as
well.
But
you
know
we:
we
try
to
vet
that
ahead
of
time,
that
their
presentation
will
be
the
same
presentation.
They
gave
that
zoning
board
and
we've
interjected
before
I
said,
wait
a
second
that
was
not
talked
about.
You
can't
do
that.
You
know
they
come
in
with
new
charts
and
graphs
right.
Okay,
can't
present
anything
new
right,
so
we
do
the
best
we
can
there.
Sometimes
things
do
slip
through,
but
we
try
not
to.
A
The
thing
we
have
to
really
remember
is
don't
let
public
comment
become
testimony
because
testimony
they're
sworn
in.
We
have
a
courtroom.
Stenographer
the
zba
writes
down.
If
you
cough
it
says
cough,
so
everything
is
written
down
there,
she's
a
courtroom,
stenographer
she's
everything
she
says
is
illegal,
that
she
said
it.
She
heard
it.
She
wrote
it
down.
So
if.
A
G
And
another
reason
we
want
to
build
that
record
because
very
often
times
when
it
gets
to
the
courts,
the
judge
at
the
courts
is
only
making
their
they're
making
a
decision
only
on
that
record
they're,
not
bringing
in
new
witnesses
to
talk
to
or
interviewing
anybody
or
getting
more
testimony
they're.
Just
looking
at
that
record
and
to
see
if
a
proper
decision
was
made.
That's
why
it's
very
important
that
we
build
that
record
and
when
it's
here
it's
only
minutes.
It's
not
part
of
that
record
right.
A
D
G
G
A
F
If
you
want
to
do
some
sort
of
I
know,
tim
does
a
presentation
once
a
year
to
the
full
county
board
about
you,
know
the
economic
development
activities,
but
if
there
is
some
sort
of
specific
tool
that
we
utilize
you
want
to
talk
about,
dell
brought
up
enterprise
zone
we'd
be
happy
to
kind
of
run.
That,
through
I
know,
a
combination
of
our
office,
and
maybe
mr
blair
would
be
able
to
talk
a
little
bit
about.
You
know
how
the
taxes
apply
or
something
like
that.
F
But
so,
if
you
keep
that
in
mind,
if
you're
thinking
about
some
of
the
tools
we
work
with,
we
want
to
see
that
as
far
as
real
trans
is
concerned,
the
only
update
I
have
right
now
we're
soliciting
a
vendor
for
fy22,
so
that's
july,
1
to
june
30th
for
real
transit.
So
our
current
transfer
provider
is
show
bus
and
I
want
to
say
this
is
a
group-
and
I
hear
this:
sometimes
we
had
a
news
article
ran
about,
we
got
received
a
grant
for
it
and
then
talking
to
the
reporter.
F
You
know
he
said
the
show
bus
and
I
think
it's
important
for
everybody
to
know
that
we
have
a
fleet
of
vehicles,
that's
owned
by
the
county.
We
received
those
vehicles,
we
apply
for
grants
through
the
consolidated
vehicle
procurement
program
at
idot,
and
then
we
select
a
vendor
annually
to
manage
that.
So
currently,
showbus
runs
a
deviated,
fixed
route
system
that
starts
about
3
45.
F
In
the
morning
we
run
routes
throughout
the
entire
county,
so
outside
of
the
metro
area,
so
metro,
river
valley,
metro,
runs
in
the
in
the
metro
area.
We
run
outside
of
that
and
we
also
run
a
commuter
route
and
what's
convenient
for
us.
Is
we're
allowed
to
pick
up
here
at
the
kinky
transfer
station
and
we
run
the
momentum
every
day
about
on
the
hour
a
commuter
route
for
for
everybody,
so
we've
got
to
have
a
central
jobs
center
and
then
an
eastern
job
center.
F
We
we're
running
more
buses
now
than
we
have
been
it's
a
little
more
expensive
for
us
to
manage
that,
but
we're
allowed
to
keep
our
passengers
a
little
further
apart.
So
some
of
our
trips,
where
we
typically
might
have
one
bus
in
an
area
and
pick
up
five
or
six
riders,
we
can't
quite
fit
them
on
the
bus,
so
we're
able
to
to
bring
more
buses
in.
So
it's
costing
us
a
little
bit
when
we
say
like
trips.
Their
trips
are
good
right.
F
F
F
It's
a
good
number
of
routes,
we're
we're
hopeful
we'll
receive
at
least
one
solicitor
we
typically
do,
which
is
which
is
show
bus,
but
that
is
open.
Letters
were
mailed
to
the
potential
providers
on
january
7th,
we'll
be
closing
that
on
february
5th,
we'll
be
reviewing
at
the
staff
level,
and
it
will
come
to
this
committee
next
month
with
our
recommendation
for
approval
for
our
transit
provider
for
2022.
So
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
little
heads
up
on
that
you'll
be
seeing
it
at
the
next
month's
meeting.
A
F
So
river
valley
metro
runs
a
bus
several
times
a
day.
So
that's
our
that's
our
urban
system
to
to
midway
airport.
So
that's
the
one
that
runs
out
of
the
mantino
terminal
to
midway.
That's
not
our
our
show
bus
we're
we're
responsible
for
transporting
the
residents
of
kankakee
county
and
either
our
start
or
finish,
has
to
be
a
county
resident.
So
we
can
take
a
resident
from
their
home
in
limestone
and
bring
them
to
you
know
bradley
or
bourbon
a
for
shopping
or
for
a
doctor's
appointment.
F
As
long
as
one
leg
of
the
one
end
of
that
trip
starts
in
the
county,
we
we're
not
allowed
to
use
our
downstate
operating
assistance
program
to
haul
within
just
the
city
of
kankakee.
That
is
where
river
valley
metro
has
their
grant
and
they're
allowed
to
utilize
which,
and
they
they
conceivably
could
do
the
same
thing
as
long
as
one
end
falls
within
their
their
area.
F
So
we
we
are
able
to
bring
people
to
the
city
of
kankakee
to
drop
off
at
the
transfer
station
for
utilization
of
the
existing
buses
within
the
metro
area,
for
people
to
get
back
and
forth
to
work
or
doctors
appointments.
But
we
do
also
do
that
direct
route
where
we
come
to
your
house
or
very
close
to
your
house
and
then
drop
you
off
at
your
doctor
or
very
close
to
your
doctor.
So
it's
a,
I
would
say,
a
little
more
tailored
service
as
to
where
the
metro
buses
run
the
route.
F
There
has
been
we've,
we've
seen
a
distinct
drop
in
ryan
ridership
due
to
covid,
but
we
are
still
providing
quite
a
few
rides
and
at
the
next
meeting
I'll
make
sure
we
have
our
q
two.
I
can
keep
in
mind
in
in,
for
I
dot
july.
1
is
the
start
of
our
year,
so
quarter
two
goes
from
the
you
know,
october,
to
the
end
of
the
year,
for
us
so
we'll
have
that
at
the
next
meeting.
A
H
Mr
wheeler,
thank
you,
the
I
had
one
question,
but
I
I
believe
a
vast,
not
a
vast
majority.
I
you
know,
I
would
just
say
if
the
majority
of
our
riders
are
on,
that
that
moment's
route
correct
on
show
bus
is
that
an
accurate
statement
yeah
to
to
be
because
they
they
live
in
usually
the
kankakee
area
and
they
work
they're
working
at
moments
at
those
facilities
in
moments.
H
So
that's
why
I
wanted
to
mention
if,
if
those
places
are
kind
of
unlimited
capacity
because
of
covid,
that
might
be
a
good
indicator
of
or
at
a
good
impact
of
what
what
has
happened.
You
know
on
a
ridership.
The
one
question
I
had
was
and
it's
in
my
new
neighborhood
had
an
elderly
woman
asked
me
she
can.
She
was
getting
river
valley
metro
to
do
the
point-to-point
service,
but
through
you
know,
I'm
not
being
critical
of
them.
She
said
there
was
a
like
a
for
her
doctor's
appointments.
H
It
was
a
two
and
a
half
hour,
wait
for
them
to
come
back
after
the
appointment.
What's
the
nature
of
our
point-to-point
service,
do
they
have
the
same
kind
of
weights?
If
you
will,
you
know,
or
do
they
come
back
say
well,
I
need
you
back
here.
1
30.,
will
they
be
back
there
at
1
30.
or
is
there
a
window.
F
They
they
receive
windows,
and
I
mean
again
it's
about
how
many
riders
are
riding
in
that
particular
day
to
where
you
know.
Sometimes
you
say,
like
I've
got
a
I've
got
somebody
I
gotta
pick
up
in
in
limestone
and
take
them
to
to
bradley,
and
then
I
know
that
there's
somebody
in
bradley
that
needs
a
ride.
F
H
It
just
seems
like
the
the
rule,
instead
of
the
exception
on
the
other
side
of
things.
It
always
is
that
the
last
thing
is
is
the
the
mention
of
show
bus
on
the
side
of
the
bus.
I've
said
this
over
and
over
again,
I've
talked
with
laura
from
you
know
from
you
know,
show
bus
if
you
will
kankakee
county
rural
transit
sounds
a
lot
better
to
me,
because
it
is
the
county.
That's
doing
this.
H
People
don't
realize
that
I
don't
mind
if
show
bus
is
on
there,
but
I
think
we
should
talk
about
if
there
is
a
cost
to
rebrand
these
buses.
The
time
is
now.
Unless
there's
a
reason,
we
can't
do
that
because
of
our
the
dope
grant
it's
deal.
Downstate
operating
sorry
sounds
like
a
different
kind
of
grand
these
days.
H
You
never
know
in
illinois,
but
so
I
guess
where
I
was
going
with
that
is,
is:
does
this
committee
want
me
to
go
down
that
road,
because
the
brand
matters
it's
our
resources
that
are
doing
this
and
sure
people
want
to
see,
show
bus
because,
oh
yeah,
that's
the
show
bus
that
can
be
on
the
back.
The
side
of
it
should
say
county
on
it,
yeah
with
our
logo.
F
F
We
have
a
a
meeting
with
our
with
laura
from
showbus
jeff
and
I
do
every
month
we
call
it
the
pcom
meeting,
we
do
the
exact
chairman,
wheeler
and
laura
and
jeff,
and
I
meet
and
we're
going
to
be
meeting
in
this
this
upcoming
month.
So
this
is
timely
if
we
can
get
some
direction
from
from
the
committee
to
start
down
the
road
of
at
a
minimum
replacing
or
putting
the
signage
on
the
new
buses.
So
we
received
a
new
bus
and
we
hadn't
had
a
decision
from
the
county
board
level.
F
F
I
think
that's
where
the
chairman's
going
on
this
is
the
kankakee
county
transit
system,
and
so,
if
we're
going
to
say
kanke
county
rural
transit,
if
we
want
to
try
and
think
of
some
sort
of
acronym,
I
love
acronyms.
That's
kind
of
you
know
business
we
work
in,
but
you
can
still
say,
show
bus
and
they're
still
our
partner
and
it's
still
important.
F
G
Well,
there
is,
there
is
one
one
little
part
of
this,
that
you
may
actually
see:
kanke,
county
earl,
transit
buses
in
other
counties
or
like
bloomington
or
places
like
that,
because
one
thing
showbus
does:
when
a
bus
breaks
down,
there's
two
different
show:
buses
you've,
probably
seen
out
there
ones
with
the
green
show
bus
on
it.
Those
are
ours,
there's
also
ones
that
say,
show
bus
that
are
blue.
Those,
I
think,
are
mclean
counties.
Yes,
I
think
yes,
and
depending
on
the
day
and
the
availability
of
buses,
they
do
share
them.
G
G
K
F
H
G
I
F
Was
meant
for
yeah
and
part
of
this
activity
of
bringing
this
to
the
committee
and
talking
in
front
of
the
full
board
is
just
really
to
to
make
the
residents
aware
this
is
available
sam,
it's
5
p.m.
It's
the
last
ride
for
the
the
commuter
route
so
4a
to
5p,
but
yeah.
It's
about
letting
people
know
that
and
it's
there's
always
been
a
stig
stigma
surrounding
public
transportation.
You
don't
have
to
be
going
to
the
doctor.
You
don't
have
to
not
own
a
car.
You
don't
have
to
do
anything.
F
F
I
just
hop
on
the
bus
to
go
pick
my
car
up
and
it's
more
because
I'm
in
this
business
I,
the
the
dealership,
will
come
get
me,
but
I
can,
at
my
leisure,
walk
down
and
hop
on
a
bus
and
ride
wherever
I
need
to
go
within
the
within
the
system,
but
yeah
anybody
can
ride
it
for
for
any
reason
that
they
want
and
a
lot
of
our
riders
are
riding
it
to
get
to
work.
That's
a
good
that's
a
good
sign.