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A
Interim
committee
subcommittee
on
budget
review,
subject
and
judiciary.
A
I
would
like
to
advise
all
of
those
here
and
joining
us
remotely
that
all
the
materials
that
were
received
by
the
deadline
are
posted
online
and
are
available
for
you
to
download,
and
I
would
also
remind
members
that,
as
you
answer,
roll
call,
please
indicate
whether
you're
present
in
person
remote
from
your
district
or
remote
from
your
annex
office,
and
at
this
time
please
ask
the
secretary
to
call
the
roll.
B
B
A
President
in
the
room,
okay,
you
know,
I'm
gonna
begin,
I'm
really
kind
of
at
a
loss
for
words
this
morning
and
still
trying
to
to
pull
things
together
with
the
loss
of
our
our
colleague
senator
tom
buford.
I'm
sure
all
of
you
all
heard
the
news
yesterday
and-
and
I
had
complete
shock
to
to
all
of
us,
and
so,
if
you
all
don't
mind,
I
think
we're
going
to
begin
this
morning,
and
I
don't
know
how
fitting
it
is
to
have
a
moment
of
silence,
because
tom
was
rarely
silent
at
any
point.
A
He
always
had
input
in
everything
that
we
did
and
tom
always
had
a
unique
perspective
in
any
issue
that
we
were
dealing
with
and
his
his
institutional
knowledge
and
experience
over
the
years
were
just
invaluable,
and
I
I
can't
tell
you
the
number
of
times
that
we
would
be
in
a
meeting
and
caucus
and
he
he
always
knew
the
peripheral
issues
and
he
always
knew
where
attacks
might
come
from
on
whatever
issue
it
might
be,
and
it
just
it
just
came
from
the
wealth
of
knowledge
and
experience
that
he
had
over
the
years.
A
And
you
know
of
of
any
senator
that
we
have
within
our
caucus.
I
never
knew
how
tom
buford
was
going
to
vote
on
anything
you
just
you
don't
I
just
never
could
figure
the
man
out
you.
You
would
think
that
that
he
would
be
going
one
way
and
then
he'd
vote
totally
different,
so
but
very
successful.
You
know,
I
think,
talking
with
him
last
time
when
he
ran
for
reelection.
A
I
don't
know
that
he
had
to
put
up
much
of
a
campaign.
I
think
he
was
just
that
well
thought
of
in
his
area
and
just
a
tremendous
asset
to
to
our
caucus
to
this
commonwealth
and
a
great
loss
to
our
caucus
and
in
a
great
loss
to
our
commonwealth,
and
you
know
my
prayers
and
I
know
all
of
our
colleagues
here
in
in
the
house
and
senate
all
of
us
here
in
frankfurt.
A
Our
prayers
are
with
his
family
at
this
time
of
loss,
and
you
know
it's
just
it's
a
shock.
I
mean
you
just
I
yesterday
I
just
stopped
in
my
tracks
and
I
couldn't
get
the
email
to
open
to
read
that
this
can't
be
right,
and
I
told
my
wife,
you
know
teresa
tom
buford
passed
away
and
you
know
today
I
still
don't
have
a
lot
more
information
on
on
what
happened,
but
my
heart
breaks
for
his
family.
B
A
You
know
I
have
an
intimate
knowledge
with
how
important
the
firearms
training
is
and
having
quality
facility
to
make
sure
that
that
happens.
And
you
know
I
remember
when
I
started
firearms
training.
We
had
the
old
38
revolvers
and
I
could
not
hit
the
broadside
of
a
barn
with
that
revolver
and
but
the
training
was
was
top
rate
and
by
the
end
of
the
academy
I
was
much
better
and
I
appreciate
the
personnel
there
and
you
know
as
a
police
officer.
A
That
is
the
most
important
tool
you
have
to
ensure
that
you
go
home
at
night
and
I
think
it's
one
of
the
most
critical
aspects
of
the
training
that
we
have-
and
you
know
in
talking
with
commissioner
learned
of
the
state
of
facility
that
we
have
and
the
disrepair
that
it's
in
and
he
told
me
about
the
plans
to
replace
it
and
what's
needed,
and
you
know
assured
him
that
we
would
get
him
in
in
a
committee
meeting.
So
he
could
present
his
case
and
hopefully
something
we
can
address
this
session.
A
A
D
E
D
So
I'd
like
to
begin
by
thanking
you
senator
carroll
for
giving
us
the
opportunity
to
speak
on
this,
and
I
wanted
to
thank
obviously
the
committee
for
their
time
this
morning.
So
we're
here
to
discuss
and
to
talk
about
our
firing
range.
The
mckinney
range,
a
range
that
is
structurally
failing
a
range
that
no
longer
is
meeting
our
training
needs.
D
But
before
I
get
into
that,
I'd
like
to
take
a
minute
just
for
the
edification
of
the
of
the
committee
to
fully
kind
of
understand
the
scope
of
this
and
the
significance
to
the
commonwealth.
So
currently,
there
are
five
approved
academies
for
the
state
of
kentucky
four
of
those
five.
They
service
only
one
agency,
each
there's
bowling
green
lexington,
louisville
and
ksp
the
remaining
430
plus
law
enforcement
agencies
from
across
the
state.
D
They
all
rely
on
doc,
jt
for
their
mandated
basic
in-service
training
or
basic
training,
which
is
the
training
required
to
be
certified
to
be
a
police
officer
in
kentucky,
as
well
as
the
in-service
training,
which
is
mandated
a
minimum
of
40
hours
a
year
to
maintain
that
certification.
So
it's
a
pretty
big
responsibility.
D
With
that
said,
the
the
the
range
the
mckinney
range
was
built
in
1992
as
part
of
the
thunderbird
project,
which
was
the
first,
I
would
argue
one
of
the
first
big
advancements
for
doc
jt.
There
was
some
construction
of
some
buildings
that
allowed
for
some
office
space
and
some
training
space.
The
mckinney
range
being
part
of
that
the
mckinney
range
in
conjunction
with
our
boonsboro
range,
which
is
an
outdoor,
only
range
on
the
kentucky
river
about
16
miles
north
of
richmond.
D
Those
are
the
two
facilities
that
we
currently
have
for
use
to,
to
be
able
to
deliver.
Firearms
related
training,
mckinney
range
built
again
in
92,
is
a
primarily
a
concrete
box
that
is
partially
covered.
I
say
partially
covered
has
a
louvered
roof
kind
of
a
unique
shape
to
the
roof
that
directs
all
the
sound
out
backwards.
D
throughout
the
course
of
this
testimony.
This
morning,
supervisor
wallace
will
address
some
of
the
statistics
and
numbers
and
just
how
the
demand
for
our
training
has
increased
over
the
years.
But
what
was
sufficient
in
92,
I
would
argue
when
I
went
through
in
2002,
was
already
starting
to
show
its
age,
that
it
was
difficult
for
us
to
run
our
classes
through
the
class
that
I
was
a
part
of
was
much
larger
than
16,
which
required
a
minimum
of
two
relays
to
go
through.
D
That
starts
to
double
the
training
time
and
as
well
as
the
condition
of
the
building.
I
remember
commenting
on
it
back
in
2002
that
the
condition
was
already
suffering,
so
that
leads
me
up
to
2020
when
I
became
commissioner,
I
in
part
of
my
process
of
becoming
commissioners
getting
familiar
with
the
current
state
of
all
the
facilities
and
everything
that
we
have
going
on
and
right
away.
D
So,
over
the
course
of
that
summer,
leading
into
fall,
we
had
a
a
architectural
firm,
do
a
structural
analysis
and
the
result
of
that
report
was
pretty
stark
and
again
I'm
leaving
that
up
to
mr
raider
speak
to
you,
we
have
a
video
to
show
that
we'll
show
at
some
point
and
that
will
kind
of
give
you
not
only
what
you
have
been
provided
in
photographs,
which
we've
also
I
know
you've
been
given
electronic
copies,
but
we've
provided
you
with
some
paper
copies
to
flip
through,
but
you'll
be
able
to
see
with
the
video
exactly
just
how
bad
the
condition
is.
F
Thank
you,
commissioner,
and
thank
you
senator
and
members
of
the
committee
for
giving
us
an
opportunity
to
to
come
today
and
present
the
condition
of
the
firing
range
and
and
hear
the
the
basically
the
state
that
it's
in,
as
the
commissioner
alluded
to
so
a
little
bit
of
background,
the
the
firing
range
for
some
time.
We
we've
mandated
it
and
done
repairs
over
the
years,
but
it's
quickly
got
to
the
point
that
those
those
band-aids
aren't
working
anymore
and
in
2017
the
end
of
2017
into
2018.
F
F
We
wanted
to
get
a
basically
a
report
on
each
one
of
the
facilities
and,
as
the
commissioner
alluded
to
the
the
report
on
the
firing
range
was
was
quite
startling.
F
The
first
assessment
that
we
did
on
the
firing
range
was
in
march
of
2019
and
I'm
gonna.
This
is
on
page
five
and
kind
of
some
of
these
quotes
come
from
the
assessment
report,
which
I
brought
the
assessment
report,
just
to
kind
of
you
know
for
you
guys
to
see
how
how
thick
it
was
and
how
much
time
and
effort
that
the
architectural
firm
put
into
it
and
the
structural
engineers,
but
in
2019
this
is
in
march
of
2019.
F
So
since
that
time,
we
we
started
doing
a
few
things
to
the
to
the
range
that
would
kind
of
help
it
along
and
get
it
to
the
point.
One
of
the
one
of
the
first
things
that
we
did
is
the
the
non-slip
flooring
that
we
had
it
started
started
crumbling
because
of
moisture
and
things
underneath
the
concrete
flooring-
and
we
resurfaced
that
about
a
year
ago
the
one-year
walk-through
was
just
yesterday
and
we
we've
actually
witnessed
and
seen
some
cracking
since
then,
which
tells
us
that
the
floor
is
still
shifting.
F
I
spoke
about
30
minutes
yesterday
with
our
with
eop
the
architectural
firm
to
kind
of
get
an
update
on
that.
We
added
some
soundproofing
materials
to
to
the
walls
there
too,
and
it
covers
up
a
lot
of
the
deterioration
underneath
it,
but
it
was
necessary
because
of
the
the
sound
reverberation
and
things
of
that
nature
for
the
instructors
to
do
that
fast
forward
to
september
of
2020-
and
this
is
when
the
most
I
guess,
stifling
news-
came
to
our
attention.
F
We
had
a
structural
firm,
come
in
and
reassess
from
march
of
2019,
so
a
little
over
a
year
and
a
half
later
they
came
in
and
did
their
assessment
and
on
page
11,
the
statement
read
the
report
and-
and
this
really
opened
our
eyes
to
how
bad
the
the
range
was,
and
I
want
to
I'm
going
to
read
here
from
the
report
and
it's
on
page
11..
It
says
at
the
joint
where
the
deterioration
is
most
severe.
The
wall
supports
a
steel
roof
truss.
F
We
had
to
also
shore
up
the
garage
door
that
you
can
see
in
there
so
that
so
that
the
building
could
remain
safe
and
we
continue
to
use
it
and
one
last
thing
before
I
turn
it
over
to
mr
wallace
that
I
want
to
point
out.
You
look
on
page
10
at
the
very
top
you'll
see
some
concrete
there,
that's
kind
of
protruding
out.
Well,
that's
that's
where
the
block
has
eroded
okay
and
that
the
the
basically
the
concrete
was
put
in
there
to
help
support.
F
That's
where
one
of
the
main
roof
trusses
sit,
and
you
can
see
from
that
picture
that
what's
happening
to
basically
each
one
of
those
roof
supports
is
the
the
amount
of
weight.
That's
that's
from
the
roof
and
causing
that
type
of
stress,
and
you
can
see
where
that's
starting
to
fail
some
of
those
beam
pockets,
but
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over.
Mr
wallace,
he
has
a
presentation
and
video
on
the
firing.
G
G
So
I
kind
of
narrate
this
video
as
we
go
through.
This
was
shot
to
kind
of
get
video
for
this
project
that
we're
working
on.
This
is
an
overview
of
the
baffled
roof
that
the
commissioner
was
talking
about
and
when
it
was
built.
This
was
designed
off.
G
This
is
this
is
where
those
supports
that
mr
raider
was
talking
about
all
that
weight
from
that
roof
is
literally
just
crumbling,
the
block
underneath
it
which
they've
tried
to
patch
with
concrete,
but
it's
just
kind
of
a
band-aid
like
he
said
it's
not
a
hearing
anymore.
You
can
see
where
the
building
is
literally
separating
the
blocks.
You
can
see
daylight
through
it.
G
You
put
your
hand
in
it
when
you
touch
it,
like
the
commissioner
says
it
just
crumbles,
it's
not
really
structurally
sound
at
all,
but
that
sound
goes
toward
our
neighbors,
which
used
to
be
more
distance.
Now,
as
the
campus
grows,
as
our
agency
grows
as
the
community
grows,
it's
even
the
sound
is
becoming
an
issue
for
the
community.
G
This
is
the
flooring
that
mr
raider
was
talking
about,
that
we
installed.
You
can
see
that
black
sound
absorbing
material
that
helped
reduce
a
little
bit
of
the
noise,
but
with
it
being
an
open,
baffled
roof
most
of
it
goes
out
into
the
community.
G
The
door
was
in
such
bad
shape
that
we
had
to
shore
it
up
with
I-beams
and
pretty
much
discontinue
its
use,
which
affected
our
training
ability
as
well,
because
we
no
longer
can
open
that
door
to
get
cruisers
into
the
range
to
do
the
training
that
we
need
again,
you
can
see
cracks
in
that
wall.
Extensive
molding
from
the
moisture
the
building
is
essentially
crumbling
is
what
it's
doing,
but
without
the
door
we'll
get
into
that
in
a
minute.
We
just
don't
use
this
for
a
firing
range.
G
We
have
to
use
it
for
a
lot
of
different
aspects
of
training
at
the
academy
and
without
having
access
to
that
bay
door,
that
le
that
pretty
much
eliminated
the
use
of
that
facility
for
those
other
areas,
even
the
roof
itself
in
the
enclosed
portion.
This
is
behind
the
range
kind
of
in
the
staging
area
where
the
restrooms
and
cleaning
room
is
is
leaking
as
well.
G
They've
tried
to
fix
it,
but
where
the
building's
actually
separating
every
time
they
seal
it
it'll
shift
more
and
just
break
the
seal,
and
it's
just
a
constant
battle
of
having
to
try
to
to
keep
moisture
and
water
out
of
the
facility.
I
believe
it
was
three
weeks
ago
when
we
had
the
real
bad
rain.
G
There
was
water
pouring
through
into
the
inside,
not
the
range
portion,
but
the
the
staging
area
portion
to
the
point
to
where
it
was
pouring
in
through
the
electronics
that
run
the
targeting
system
and
the
intercom
system,
which
then
creates
even
a
bigger
safety
issue,
because
we
have
water
pouring
onto
electrical
components,
which
is
a
huge
issue.
G
D
If
I
could
have
a
few
comments,
so
the
it's
basically
a
concrete
box
that
has
these
large
steel
beams
that
rest
across
the
roof
and
on
from
those
beams
rest,
the
the
wooden
louvers.
The
report
you'll
read
in
the
report,
the
the
the
joints
between
the
blocks.
They
are
all
failing
all
of
the
joints
concrete
and
I'd
senator
mcdaniel.
I
I
can't
recall
if
he
was,
if
he's
if
he
was
able
to
make
this
meeting
or
not,
but
I
I've
been
wanting
to
to
get
some
input
from
him.
D
I
know
he's
a
concrete
person
by
trade,
but
concrete
of
water
does
not
mix,
and
this
building
has
the
the
concrete
which
is
structural
for
the
building
is
exposed
to
water,
both
the
back
side,
where
the
berm,
where
the
direction
you
shoot
is
underground.
So
it's
getting
water
directly
onto
that
block.
It's
coming
up
from
the
bottom
and
it's
also
pouring
in
from
the
top.
D
So
it
is
a
losing
battle
to
try
to
combat
that
with
again
all
these
band-aids
of
trying
to
patch
up
the
joints,
which
then
separate,
put
new
paint
which
then
peels
the
there's
constant
water
pouring
in
every
time,
there's
a
weather
event
with
with
wind
blowing
in
that
water
and
snow
and
everything
else
comes
in
through
the
the
open
louvers,
which
can
create
sight
create
ice
hazards
during
the
winter
time.
D
G
So
obviously,
you
can
see
the
damage
from
the
the
pictures
in
the
video
that
you
have
in
front
of
you,
but
other
than
that.
The
biggest
concern
is
it's
too
small,
like
the
commissioner
spoke
to
it's,
not
big
enough
to
meet
our
training
needs
now
much
less
in
the
future.
G
G
The
same
amount
of
time,
but
they're
only
getting
to
shoot
a
third
of
that
time.
If
you
follow
what
I'm
saying
so,
that's
a
huge
concern
as
well.
The
other
big
thing
that
hurts
us
is
that
range
is
not
rifle
rated.
We
have
the
boonesboro
range,
as
the
commissioner
said,
but
we
just
went
through
extensive
flooding
on
that,
as
well
as
other
issues
that
we're
constantly
battling
with
it.
G
So
adding
the
capability
to
doing
rifle
training
at
on
campus
would
again
increase
the
amount
of
training
time
that
we
could
get
on
both
handgun
and
patrol
rifle
training
form
the
biggest
concern
other
than
its
deteriorating
condition
is.
G
This
range
is
not
ballistically
contained
and
when
I
say
that
it's
got
concrete
walls
all
the
way
around
it
and
on
the
floor,
but
the
roof
is
just
plywood
structure,
as
you
can
see
from
the
photographs
in
the
video
that
does
not
keep
around
from
being
able
to
escape,
there's
not
any
escape
as
long
as
I've
been
involved
in
the
firearm
program,
but
you
can
look
at
the
ceiling
and
tail
in
the
past.
It
has
been
struck
which
creates,
like
I
said,
as
the
our
campus
grows.
Eku
grows
in
the
community
around
us.
G
That
increase
increases
a
huge
liability
issue
if
a
round
was
to
escape
through
the
roof
of
that
range.
So
that's
another
issue
too,
as
well
as
the
noise
that
pollution
that
I
pointed
out
earlier
to
our
neighbors.
G
G
We
have
some
pretty
unhappy
neighbors
during
the
summertime
because
we
have
to
start
so
late,
but
low
light
is
a
huge
part.
If
we
had
a
true
indoor
range,
we
could
shoot
low
light
conditions
at
noon.
It
wouldn't
limit
us
in
our
ability
to
to
offer
that
training,
but
we
could
do
it
in
normal
business
hours
where
it
would
wouldn't
affect
the
community
around
us
also
with
that
type
of
range
you're
not
going
to
get
the
sound
pollution
from
it
that
you
would,
with
this
baffled
range
that
we're
operating
off
of
now.
G
As
well
also
logistically,
it
would
save
the
state
and
our
agency
money
because
of
travel
time
and
meals,
because
when
we
do
have
to
go
to
boone's
barrel
facility,
like
the
commissioner
mentioned
it's
16
miles
from
campus,
we
have
to
then
order
food
to
cater
to
them,
because
we
don't
have
time
to
let
them
go
back
and
eat
on
campus
and
come
back.
So
it's
not
only
going
to
increase
training
time,
but
it's
also
going
to
reduce
cost
in
in
other
areas
as
well.
G
G
I
look
at
this
as
a
multi-functional
facility
because
we
before
that
door
was
shut,
we
would
pull
cruisers
in
there
and
do
stops
training
which
teaches
them
how
to
do
traffic
stops.
We
would
do
approaches,
ambushes,
counter
ambushes,
all
kind
of
patrol
tactics
as
well.
So
that's
a
huge
chunk
of
the
curriculum
in
our
in
our
academy,
not
just
firearms.
G
D
So
you,
hopefully,
we've
painted
a
fairly
clear
picture
about
how
we
got
here
and
what
we
have
currently.
What
we're
hoping
to
do
is
to
take
this
opportunity
to
not
only
replace
something
that
is
structurally
failing
that
no
longer
meets
our
current
training
needs,
but
to
be
able
to
create
use
this
opportunity
to
to
fix
those,
but
to
also
position
us
for
the
next
30
years.
D
The
new
facility
that
we
are
are
proposing
and
talking
about,
would
be
just
that.
It
wouldn't
be
a
range
we've
been
talking
about
a
range
and,
if
you
and
your
imaginations,
I'm
sure
you
and
what
you've
seen
on
the
video
is
just
an
open
area
where
people
stand
static
and
shoot
in
one
direction
towards
a
paper
target.
We're
hoping
to
be
able
to
to
have
a
training
facility,
a
firearms
training
facility
that
will
allow
for
us
to
advance
our
training,
where
we
can
do
firearms
training
there.
D
But
we
can
incorporate
and
make
it
much
more
comprehensive
which
I'll.
Let
dr
cabal
speak
about
here
in
a
moment.
But
if
you
want
to
briefly
discuss
the
elements
of
the
the
new
proposed
facility
that
we're
looking
for.
G
Yes,
sir,
it
would
what
we're
trying
to
do
is.
It
is
essentially
a
big
open
range,
but
it's
not
only
used
for
firearms
training.
The
range
we
have
now
has
columns
in
it.
We
need
a
big
open
area
to
the
days
of
standing.
Still
shooting
is
not
preparing
these
officers
for
what
they
face
in
the
field.
They
need
to
be
able
to
learn
how
to
be
dynamic
and
adapt
to
that
situation.
So
having
just
an
open
range,
one
is
part
of
it:
two
getting
those
vehicles
to
be
able
to
come
on
to
the
range.
G
Where
now
we
can
incorporate
the
stops
training.
De-Escalation
ambush
counter
ambush
all
that
type
of
training
into
it
is
huge,
but
we
also
want
to
build
an
annex
off
the
side
of
the
range
to
where,
when
we
pull
the
cruisers
in
the
officers
would
be
responding
to
a
call
to
those
little
annexes
and
we
we
call
them
shoot
houses,
but
they
wouldn't
be
live
fire
shoot
houses
or
simunition
non-lethal
training,
weapon
rooms
to
where
they
could
realistically
approach
a
scene
like
they
would
in
real
life
and
deal
with
it.
We
don't
have
that
capability
now.
G
So
that
would
be
huge,
like
I
said,
we're
talking
about
a
lot
bigger
chunk
of
our
training
curriculum
other
than
just
shooting
guns
it.
It
carries
over
to
a
lot
of
different
areas
having
that
capability
of
them
pulling
up
and
getting
out
of
the
car
and
going
into
a
structure
and
potentially
getting
into
a
conflict
or
having
to
come
out
and
get
in
a
car
opens
up
a
whole
nother
area
of
training
that
we're
unable
to
provide
them.
At
this
time.
E
Good
morning,
thank
you
for
this
opportunity
to
speak
to
you,
I'm
going
to
hit
a
couple
just
a
two
factors,
one
I
hate
to
say
I'm
the
elder
statesman
at
the
table
here,
but
I
am
in
my
24th
year
at
the
department
of
criminal
justice
training,
starting
back
in
june,
of
1998
pre-pops
standards.
So
I
have
seen
department,
criminal
justice
training
grow
from
10
weeks
to
16
weeks
to
18
weeks
to
our
current
20
weeks.
I've
also
seen
our
pendulum
swing
from
the
old
under
the
10
weeks.
E
It
was
block
training,
much
of
education
and
much
of
what
we
learned
research-wise.
That's
not
an
effective
way
to
teach
anything
so
we've
grown
to
adult
learning,
and
I
would
suggest
that
we
have
gone
to
a
more
of
an
integrated
style
of
training
where
everything
has
a
purpose
and
everything
has
a
place,
and
it's
simply
just
called
our
basic
training
is
designed
on
a
crawl
walk,
run
methodology.
E
What
they're
learning
continues
to
grow
upon
itself
as
it
goes
as
we
discuss
this
a
shutdown.
What
a
shutdown
of
our
current
range
would
do
to
us.
We
learned
a
little
bit
here
with
covet
as
we
were
shut
down
for
two
almost
three
months.
E
We
I
I
cannot
thank
the
selfless
employees
that
we
have
at
the
department
of
criminal
justice
training.
If
you
would
have
asked
me
back
in
january,
if
we'd
have
been
up
to
running
five
basic
classes
here
in
july
and
fully
full-blown
training
and
in-service
training,
I
would
say
I
have
no
idea.
E
In
fact,
I
would
have
doubted
that
we
would
be
able
to
do
that,
but
our
staff
has
responded
to
this
and
I
just
want
to
commend
them
in
front
of
you
all
the
fantastic
job
that
they've
done
in
keeping
us
running
and
keeping
your
constituents
the
police
in
the
proper
training
that
they've
had.
But
having
said
that,
as
we
are
just
entered
into
five
classes
running
at
one
single
time,
if,
if
a
chief
or
sheriff
calls
to
put
somebody
in
basic
training
right
now,
it
is
november
until
I
can
get
them
through.
E
That
is
what
this
shutdown
has
done
to
us.
I
still
have
some
compliance
issues
with
the
cdc
and
covid
that
doesn't
allow
me
to
put
two
people
in
a
room
at
the
dorms
right
now.
So
we've
had
to
struggle
to
think
about
the
box
on
how
we
can
get
this
fifth
class
up
and
running.
I
suggest
you
that
that
fit
class
is
actually
over
capacity.
E
I'm
gonna
show
a
lot
of
comp
time
and
and
that's
up
to
mr
wallace
to
them
to
to
adjust
and
to
work
through
with
our
staff,
but
it
comes
at
a
price.
It
comes
at
a
price
to
their
family,
our
instructors
and
everything
that
they're
doing
to
keep
us
running.
E
E
E
Hard
to
do
try
overlapping
that
five
times
when
you
don't
all
you
have
is
one
driving
range,
one
gym
and
one
firearms
that
we
knew
that's
actually
close
to
be
able
to
do
again.
I've
got
some
very
smart
people
working
for
us
that
can
figure
these
things
out.
Thankfully,
but
it's
it's
a
tremendous
challenge
and
any
shutdown
would
cause
a
huge
disorder
with
with
police
right
now.
E
Recruitment
and
retention
of
law
enforcement,
not
only
in
kentucky
but
nationally
right
now
is,
is
tough
if
chiefs
or
sheriffs
have
to
wait
long
for
for
somebody
to
get
into
basic
training,
they
risk
losing
those
those
recruits
to
other
states
that
can
get
them
in
faster.
So,
as
mr
wallace
explained,
having
this
multi-purpose
type
training
facility
will
allow
us
to
add
more
people
to
a
class
and
to
to
help
us
along
with
that
type
of
training.
E
I
also
have
to
consider
overtime.
I
I
have
to
develop
our
training
so
that
it's
40
hours
in
a
week,
many
of
our
constituents
are
8
or
10
or
less
man,
police
departments
who
have
no
budget
for
overtime.
The
other
academies
we're
talking
about
they
control
their
own
overtime
of
their
own
people.
We
don't
train
people
that
we
employ.
E
We
train
people
employed
by
cities
and
counties
across
the
commonwealth,
so
I
have
to
work
I'll.
I
will
start
getting
complaints
that
frank:
we've
got
too
much
overtime
coming
out,
so
I
have
to
try
to
keep
training
at
40
hours
every
week
to
be
able
to
to
match
that
800
hours
and
and
overlap
that
five
times
over.
E
So
any
disruption
in
that
process
is,
I
use
word
catastrophic,
but
it
is
if
this
range
were
to
go
down,
I'm
not
sure
how
many
classes
I
could
actually
run
two,
maybe
three
and
that's
about
it
with
the
and
then
again,
if
you
had
another
flood
situation,
what
were
we
down,
mr
wallace
two
months
or
two
months,
and
they
did
a
great
job
cleaning
that
up,
but
I
would
suggest
to
you
that
they
can
unfiltered
water
of
the
kentucky
river
is
not
exactly.
E
I've
got
a
safety
background
as
well.
It's
not
exactly
safe.
Several
years
back
on
another
flood,
we
put
recruits
out
there
and
laid
them
down
prone
and
they
got
ring
warm.
So
there
is
a
lot
of
stuff
that
we
have
to
consider
with
that
rangers.
It's
got
its
challenges,
epa
and
lead,
and
the
river
is
right
there
and
you
see
where
I'm
going
is
very
costly.
E
It
has
no
running
water
to
it,
there's
no
bathroom
facility,
so
it
is
not
an
answer,
long
term
for
us
to
use
that
as
a
permanent
facility
period
we
have
to
we'd
have
to
invest
a
tremendous
amount
of
money.
To
do
that,
I
think
that's.
D
Well,
so
that's
you
know,
I
think,
the
the
the
meat
of
the
the
of
the
argument
here
that
I'm
sure
that
you
all
are
very
interested
in
what
are
we
asking
for
and
what
is
it
going
to
cost?
There
are
companies
that
specialize
in
building
ranges
and
I'm
not
necessarily
saying
we're
going
to
use
a
template,
but
we
certainly
have
plenty
of
templates
for
us
to
be
able
to
get
a
good
idea
about
cost
and
what
a
modern
range
and
a
forward
thinking
range
would
look
like
we're.
D
We're
looking
for
the
ability
to
have
vehicles
on
the
range
as
mr
wallace
described,
which
would
require
bay
doors,
we're
looking
at
classroom
space
office,
space,
an
observation
or
a
scoring
area
to
be
able
to
observe
the
training,
weapons,
cleaning
and
maintenance
area,
storage,
room
and
locker
rooms,
and
the
I'll
defer
to
mr
raider
to
speak
kind
of
on
how
he
came
up
with
the
number
that
we
had
proposed
last
session.
With
with
what
this
cost
would
look
like.
Mr
rader.
F
Thank
you,
commissioner.
The
the
cost,
of
course,
trying
to
hit
a
actual
cost
of
any
building,
estimating
is
kind
of
tough
to
do,
and
obviously
we
do
not
have
those
resources
in
house
to
be
able
to
do
that.
F
So
we
worked
again
with
with
eop
architectural
firm
who
reached
out
to
a
company
that
that
specializes
in
building
ranges
and
to
to
develop
the
budget
of
23
million,
and
that
was
the
that
was
the
number
that
was
requested
the
this
past
session
and
during
that
same
conversation
that
I
had
with
eop
yesterday,
I
was
cautioned
that,
of
course,
building
costs
have
have
skyrocketed
that
that
perhaps
could
not
may
not
be
enough
when
this
you
know
when
the
if
this
building's
approved
when
we
break
down
or
break
ground.
F
However,
building
costs,
as
I
understand,
have
started
coming
down
slightly.
I
have
a
couple
friends:
that's
building
the
house
right
now
and
they've
seen
that
in
lumber
cost,
which
would
of
course,
I
guess,
expand
into
other
building
costs
as
well.
So
that
estimate
is
not
an
in-house
estimate.
I
wanted
to
point
that
out
that
these
are
from
from
what
we
call
experts
to
develop
those
numbers,
the
the
funding.
F
If
that
would
be
approved
for
the
bond
rating
to
be
able
to
to
obtain,
I
guess
a
lower
interest
rate
if
you
will
and
then,
of
course
paying
for
the
debt
service
over
the
course
of
of
how
many
every
years
the
bond
is,
is
set
up
for
through
the
cleft
fund
through
through
the
fund
that
that
funds-
our
department,
of
course,
law
enforcement
training
in
the
commonwealth
to
be
able
to
pay
those
payments,
and
I
will
point
out
that
our
agency
is
currently
debt-free.
F
We
obtain
that
from
thunderbird's
been
paid
off
for
some
time,
but
some
of
our
other
facilities
is
now
paid
off
as
well,
and
we
we
no
longer
have
a
debt
service
payment
currently
at
this
time,
and
and
just
also
wanted
to
point
that
out
and
of
course,
we
could
answer
any
other
questions.
As
far
as
that
goes
and
going
in
more
detail,
if
you
need,
but
that's
how
it
would
be
proposed
to
fund
this,
for
you
know
this
facility.
D
And
one
other
piece
of
the
important
piece
of
the
puzzle
is
where
to
put
it.
Dr
mcfadden,
with
eku,
has
been
a
wonderful
partner.
I
think
there's
a
great
future
for
doc,
jt
and
eku
moving
forward,
that
we've
got
a
lot
of
interesting
ideas
that
we're
looking
at
how
we
can
grow
together,
but
dr
mcfadden
has
been
very
gracious
with
helping
us
find
a
proposed
location
and
right
now
the
the
the
primary
location
we're
looking
at
is
right
immediately
adjacent
to
our
campus.
D
It
butts
right
up
against
some
of
the
current
training
facilities,
literally
within
probably
100
yards
of
this
firearms
range.
So
we've
got,
we've
got
all
the
the
big
pieces
of
the
puzzle.
We've
got
them
all
kind
of
prepared
and
ready
just
basically
to
get
the
approval
to
kind
of
take
off
and
move
with
it.
You
know
every
we
all
know
how
long
it
takes
state
government
projects
to
move
through
their
course
to
get
started,
and
we
are
on
borrowed
time
if
we
wait
for
this
current
range
to
fail.
D
It
is
too
late
at
that
point.
If
we
were
to
approve
everything
right
here
today,
we
would
not
have
a
functional
building-
I
wouldn't
imagine
within
at
least
a
year
or
two
at
best,
so
we're
we're
trying
to
ring
the
bell
now
so
that
we
will
be
prepared
for
when
that
time
comes.
I
you
know
just
again
want
to
stress
that
borrow
time
notion
and
that
the
lessons
we've
learned
from
what
it
was
like
to
have
be
shut
down
for
just
three
months
was
was
pretty
bad.
D
It
put
quite
a
bit
of
stress
on
on
kentucky's
law
enforcement
and
I'd
like
to
end
with
saying
just
I've
been
so
humbled
by
the
just
again,
like
dr
cabala
said
our
amazing
staff
that
has
been
able
to
help
us
push
through
and
pretty
much
accomplish.
Whatever
task
is
put
in
front
of
us
and
moving
forward.
I
really
want
to
also
express
a
lot
of
gratitude
and
humility
to
our
all
the
stakeholders
involved.
D
We've
got
the
support
of
everybody
from
the
association
chiefs
of
police,
the
kentucky
sheriff's
association,
the
fop
kentucky
center
for
school
safety
and
klec
our
stakeholders
across
the
state.
They
recognize
the
significance
of
this
and
they
are
very
adamant
in
their
support.
So
I'm
grateful
for
them.
I'm
grateful
for
this
time
to
speak
to
you
all
and
we
will
stand
to
answer
any
questions
you
may
have.
A
Gentlemen,
thank
you
for
the
the
presentation,
a
couple
questions
that
I
have
so
in
in
consideration
of
the
the
debt
service-
and
I
know
it's-
you
can't
really
anticipate
what
that
debt
service
would
be,
but
the
idea
is
just
basically
that
the
the
impact
to
dlc
jt's
budget
would
be
nominal
because
you
have
expired
previous
debt
service.
So,
though,
that
funding
could
be
used
for
the
new
debt
service
to
cover
the
range
correct.
F
Yes,
sir,
when
I
started
in
this
position
in
2009,
our
net
debt
service
was
approximately
3.1
million
for
all
the
facilities
that
we
we
occupy
at
this
time,
when
fernerberg
and
and
this
facility
and
some
of
the
other
facilities
were
paid
off,
that
that
was,
you
know,
took
it
down
about
a
million
dollars,
so
2.1
million
dollars
we
paid
for
quite
some
time
and
our
last
debt
service
payment
was
around
488
000
for
the
for
the
last
year,
those
bonds.
So
yes,
sir.
A
And
my
my
other
question
and
I
know
there's
no
substitute
for
live
firearms
training,
because
that
that
is
the
experience
that
the
officers
are
going
to
face.
But
you
know-
and
I
know
the
technology
since
I
retired-
has
changed
from
the
old
fats
machines.
How
much
of
a
role
does
virtual
technology
and
virtual
experiences
play
in
training
today,
especially
related
to
to
firearms?
G
Yes,
sir,
it
is-
and
mr
cabala
actually
sent
me
and
two
other
instructors
down
10
years
ago.
I
think
it
was
to
fletc
they
had
a
grant
to
study
just
that
they
put
in
a
lot
of
virtual
ranges
and
we
went
down
and
we
installed
one
ourselves
and
it
supplements
firearms
training,
but
it
can't
replace
it
and
my
knowledge
analogy
to
that
is:
would
you
want
to
fly
on
an
airplane
with
a
pilot
that
was
only
trained
on
a
simulator?
They
got
a
lot
better
flight
simulators
than
they
do
shooting
simulators.
G
A
A
It
is
an
element
of
time
related
there.
There
are
elements
of
time
related
to
this
with
with
the
downtime,
so
there
is
a
significant
need,
and
obviously
you
know
as
we
try
to
get
officers
on
the
streets,
the
more
we
can
get
through
the
better
and
everyone's
aware
of
the
the
severe
shortages
we
have
and
the
difficulties
recruiting
in
in
today's
environment,
from
what
I'm
understanding
are
substantial.
So
I
understand
where
you
all
are
coming
from
with
this.
A
With
with
the
cost,
have
you
gotten
any
idea
in
relation-
and
I
I
know
it's
gonna
fluctuate
from
the
time
from
today
where
the
price
of
materials
is
so
high,
but
did?
Did
the
architects
give
you
any
idea
of
what
percentage
to
add
to
from
where
the
original
estimate
was.
F
Come
other
costs,
the
the
total
he
gave
me
yesterday
that
we
could
potentially
see
as
an
increase
with
the
july
22
break
ground
date,
just
as
a
throwing
that
out,
there
was
around
28
million
five,
thirty
five
nine,
and
that
is
a
substantial
increase
and
I
was
blown
away
yesterday
now.
F
It
took
about
five
minutes
to
get
there
just
from
just
from
different
aspects
in
the
rising.
But,
however,
one
of
the
last
statements
he
made
that
cost,
they
are
seeing
right
now
coming
back
down,
but
he
also
told
us
to
consider
that
we
need
to
consider
labor
shortage.
That
really
I
mean
construction
right
now
is
still
going
on
that
some
of
these
skilled
labors
it's
hard
to
find
also.
So
we
spent
quite
a
bit
of
time
talking
about
that
yesterday.
F
A
F
F
You
know
I
don't
know
how
much
time
on
the
phone
that
look,
we
want
the
building
to
be
safe.
Are
you
sure,
by
showing
up
this
trust,
that
we're
we're
safe
and
doing
so?
We
did
not
get
that
that
trust
or
the
steel
beam
that
we
put
in
for
to
support
the
the
main
one
that
that's
failing
now.
F
That
was
not
in
the
video,
but
we
did
put
that
in
based
upon
the
structural
engineers
recommendations
and
we
are-
and
I
failed
to
mention
we're
starting
a
schedule
of
assessing
this
every
year
and
we
actually
discussed.
Should
we
go
every
six
months
because
of
the
deterioration
from
march
of
2019
to
september
of
2020,
to
a
point
that
we
had
a
trust
that
look
you
better
shore,
this
up,
we're
gonna,
we're
gonna
be
doing
that
assessment
again
in
september,
so
about
three
more
months
that
conversation
was
had.
F
I
think
last
week
earlier
this
week
that
that
we
go
ahead
and
gear
up
for
that,
because,
if
that
that's
our
first
and
foremost
concern
and
getting
that
assurance
from
it's,
not
us
looking
at
it,
of
course,
and
saying
that'll
be
all
right.
That's
that's!
Working
with
the
structural
engineers
to
tell
us
hey!
Is
this
safe.
A
Are
there
any
questions
from
any
members
representative
co-chair
fisher.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and,
first
of
all,
my
compliments
on
your
being
a
debt-free
agency.
That's
a
pretty
significant.
F
Yes,
sir,
we
have,
and-
and
one
of
the
first
buildings
was
the
thunderbird
building-
that,
with
my
limited
background,
I
knew
we
had
an
issue
when
water
poured
in
the
roof.
You
know
when
it
rained
and
we
started
assessing
with
that
building.
First
and
we're.
Let
me
first
of
all
say
very
thankful
for
that
line
item
and
I
can
assure
you
we
use
that
we
use
that.
F
Well,
we
put
a
lot
of
time
and
effort
into
studying
the
we
have
a
great
facility
staff
that
that
works
around
the
clock
of
making
sure
our
buildings
are
are
functional,
even
the
mechanical
rooms.
I
I
just
like
mechanical
rooms
for
them
for
one
thing,
but
I
walk
through
them
from
time
to
time
our
mechanical
rooms,
we
sweep
our
mechanical
rooms,
we
even
clean
in
there.
So
we
we've
worked
since
2017
to
assess
all
of
our
facilities,
and
I
can
I
can
tell
you
that
we're
in
great
shape.
F
You
know
we,
we
very
much
appreciate
that
line
item
and
that
maintenance
pool.
We
are
working
to
address
a
number
of
projects
right
now
between
we,
we
have
some
leaks
in
the
dormitory.
We
have
some
windows.
We
actually
have
some
rooms
that
we've
had
to
shut
down
because
water
coming
in
the
windows
and,
of
course,
working
with
architectural
firms.
F
You
know
why
is
it
leaking
and
let's
fix
it,
the
roof
and
and
and
of
course,
the
thompson
hall,
the
dormitory,
but
in
our
swinman
building,
one
of
the
most
recent
range
and
water
starts
coming
in
there,
of
course,
and
we're
assessing
that
roof.
F
We're
going
to
put
a
new
roof
on
our
one
of
our
buildings,
the
stone
building,
which
is
where
our
current
shoot
house
is,
and
some
some
classrooms
and
some
offices,
those
shingles,
pretty
much
just
crumble
in
your
hand,
we
have
we
bought,
and
basically
these
canopies,
that
we
use
at
picnics
and
things,
and
we
put
that
inside
over
the
camera
system,
because
water
was
was
coming
down
on
it.
We
now
have
a
bladder
if
you
will
to
catch
that
and
redirect
that
water,
but
that
project's
going
to
go
on
the
street.
F
So
we
have
assessed
every
single
facility
that
that
we
occupy
and
continuing
to
do
that
on
a
pretty
much
daily
basis,
and
we
very
much
appreciate
that
that
support
in
that
line
item
and
are
very
thankful
for
that.
So
we
are
working
hard
on
making
sure
that
that
all
of
our
facilities
receive
the
best
attention
that
they
can.
A
D
Really
I
mean
the
the
range
putting
the
range
aside,
but
we,
you
know
there
are
a
lot
of
things
that
some
limitations
again
maximizing
the
training
time
if
you
have
40
hours
in
a
week.
How
do
you
maximize
that?
Well,
one
of
the
other
things
that
takes
away
from
time
is
eating
cafeteria.
We
have
a
neighboring,
a
small
cafeteria
that
we're
grateful
to
have
access
to
from
eku
in
the
stratton
building,
which
is
right
next
door,
but
otherwise,
usually
for
dinner
and
and
other
meals.
D
The
recruits
have
to
get
in
their
cars
and
drive.
It
would
be
great
for
us
to
be
able
to
have
a
cafeteria
to
be
able
to
plus
we'd
be
able
to
make
sure
we
offer
good
meals,
nutritious
meals,
to
keep
them
nutritiously
on
track
for
to
match
the
training
we're
doing,
but
the
cafeteria
would
be
a
big
one.
Another
just
having
some
additional
multi-purpose
training
areas,
which
is
the
range,
would
be
able
to
address.
D
D
Well,
you
mimic
that
as
best
you
can
and
I'm
really
excited
about
us
moving
forward
towards
more
and
more
scenario-based
training,
but
to
do
this
scenario
based
training
to
practice
this
making
decisions
under
stress
in
a
controlled
environment
so
that
you
can
do
so
successfully
in
out
in
the
real
world
requires.
You
know,
we've
got
the
strip
mall
center.
I
don't
know
if
that
was
there
when
you
were
there,
but
the
strip
mall
on
the
driving
track
is
the
best
we
have
to
kind
of
simulate
a
restaurant
simulate
a
bar
simulate
a
home.
D
We
also
again,
our
amazing
staff
has
utilized
a
lot
of
our
existing
space
as
best
they
can.
We've
got
a
great
like
a
modular
training
area
in
our
stone
building.
That
has
walls
that
can
move,
but
you
know
again,
they've
made
the
most
with
what
we
have
we're
very
good
at
that.
D
I
cannot
say
enough
about
the
creativity
of
our
staff
and
the
ingenuity
of
our
staff,
but
we
really
are
have
made
the
most
and-
and
I
would
invite
all
of
you
all
to
come
see
for
you
senator
see
how
it's
changed
since
you
were
there
last,
but
to
come,
see
what
we
do
and
see
how
we
have
truly
made
the
most
of
what
we
have.
But
to
answer
your
question,
I'd,
say:
cafeteria
and
additional,
like
multi-purpose
type
training
buildings
would
be
great.
A
A
A
Do
any
of
our
members
remotely
have
any
questions?
If
not,
I
want
to
change
gears
for
just
a
second
representative
fleming.
Is
here
he's
not
a
member
of
this
committee,
but
he
he
came
to
me
with
a
couple
questions
that
he
wanted
to
ask
of
this
panel
and
I
think
they
are
very
pertinent
that
they're
not
firearms
related,
but
it
is
related
to
the
ocjt.
So
representative
fleming,
please
proceed,
sir.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
and
and
your
accommodation
to
help
out
in
terms
of
getting
some
clarification
on
the
training
program.
The
chairman
and
I
worked
together
a
couple
years
ago
to
pass
house
bill
68,
basically
to
help
support
law
enforcement
officers
that
go
through
traumatic
events
and
getting
the
support
the
training
materials.
So
they
can
continue
on
the
line
of
work.
What
they're
doing,
which
is
a
stellar?
H
You
know
throughout
the
years,
and
even
though
we're
in
a
situation
throughout
the
country,
that's
causing
a
lot
of
difficult
times.
I
think
having
mental
health
services
to
law
enforce
law
enforcement
officers
is,
is
critical
and
critically
important.
But
I
want
to
ask
the
commissioner
and
the
staff
on
some
things
that
I
think
you
might
be
aware
of.
H
What's
going
on,
the
intent
of
this
bill
was
to
set
up
a
a
program
that
will
give
the
necessary
skills
and
and
tools
for
them
for
the
law
enforce
enforcement
officers
to
deal
with
the
situation
they
come
across
and
I
just
want
to
know.
Can
you
explain
what
I
understand
might
be
a
reorganization
of
the
department
in
terms
of
dissolving
the
branch.
D
Absolutely
I'm
very
happy
that
that
you
asked
in
this
setting
that's
something
I
in
the
beginning
of
the
meeting.
I'd
come
up
to
you,
that's
what
I
was
wanting
to
discuss
with
you.
So
one
of
the
tasks
that
I
had
and
one
of
the
priorities
and
prerogatives
of
a
new
commissioner,
is
to
look
at
the
organization
and
look
at
the
the
department
and
how
it's
organized
and
to
make
a
determination
and
a
call
on
whether
or
not
the
organization
is
being
run
as
efficiently
and
effectively
as
possible.
D
And
before
I
go
there.
Let
me
say
that
anyone
who
has
known
me
as
a
police
officer,
has
known
one
of
the
major
major
issues.
One
of
the
major
concerns
that
I've
had
for
many
years
is
officer
wellness
and
resiliency
and
mental
health.
D
That
is
something
that
I
was
very
active
with
in
the
fop
prior
to
becoming
commissioner,
and
it
is
certainly
absolutely
our
priority,
and
I
thank
you,
sir,
and
for
the
staff
at
doc,
jt
that
really
did
the
heavy
lifting
to
really
kind
of
bring
what
we
now
have
as
kentucky
pcis
to
bring
that
into
existence.
It
is
an
amazing
program
that
functions
very
well.
D
I
was
excited
as
commissioner
to
come
on
board
to
an
agency
to
be
in
a
position
to
support
that
and
under
my
administration
we
have
actively
supported
the
program
to
the
point
where
we
have
now
expanded
the
program
we're
going
to,
for
the
first
time,
be
offering
an
off-campus
pcis
session
in
bowling
green
later
this
year,
we
doc
jt,
prior
to
my
arrival,
had
hired
a
mental
health
professional
which
was
new
for
doc
jt,
and
I
recognized
this
mental
health,
professional,
her
strengths
and
knowledge,
and
she
was
in
within
a
branch
and
what
I
decided
to
do
was
to
elevate
that
position,
and
she
now
actually
reports
directly
to
dr
kubala
as
training
director,
with
my
hopes
that
she
would
have
influence
on
all
of
our
training,
basic
and
in
service,
because
I
feel
like
the
the
concepts
of
mental
health
and
resiliency,
while
they
are
amazing
as
individual
sessions
and
classes,
that
there
are
concepts
that
we
really
need
to
be
working
towards
integrating
into
all
of
our
training.
D
Just
as
we
do
with
we
practice
physical
physical
actions
and
motions
with
you
know,
defensive
tactics
and
shooting
and
everything
else,
we
need
to
be
integrating
into
our
regular
everyday
training
these
concepts,
because
again
the
mental
health
and
the
stress
of
this
job
is
unique
and
is
significant.
D
So
what
happened
during
for
the
reorganization
was
simply
we
I
there
was
a
branch
that
I
felt
for
anyone,
who's
listening,
who
doesn't
know
exactly
how
state
government
is
structured,
but
within
a
division
you
have
branches
within
the
branches
you
have
sections
and
within
the
sections
you
have
the
staff
that
do
the
most
of
the
work.
D
D
We
have
advanced
into
looking
forward
we're
looking
into
expanding
some
of
the
the
responsibilities
of
this
section
and
to
peer
support,
training
we're
working
closely
with
klec
we've
just
started
to
develop
new
certifications
for
officer
mental
health
and
wellness.
D
We've
got
some
budding.
I've
developed
some
relationships
with
some
doctors,
both
in
the
field
of
the
college
of
social
work
and
other
places
within
the
university
of
kentucky
and
some
other
places
across
the
state
where
we
are
looking
into.
How
can
we
better
and
more
effectively
expand
this
awareness
and
how
do
we
help
officers
in
need
across
the
state?
D
So
we
are
very
active
in
our
support
for
that,
and
I
you
know
I
any
time
if
anybody's
ever
been
involved
in
a
reorganization,
it
is
inherent
that
there
will
be
some
level
of
stress
involved
in
that
change
for
anybody.
You
know
I've
been
on
the
bottom
rungs
of
the
various
organizations
I've
worked
in
for
most
of
my
working
life
and
whenever
there
are
decisions
made
at
the
top
that
involve
some
change.
D
There's
some
stress
and
anxiety
involved-
and
I
understand
and
respect
that-
and
perhaps
maybe
I
had
failed
about
trying
to
discuss
about
how
those
changes
would
and
wouldn't
impact
folks,
but
that
staff
has
not
changed
at
all
other
than
our
mental
health,
professional,
again
being
moved
up
the
chain
into
reporting
directly
to
the
training
director.
But
the
staff
is
fully
supported.
D
They
will
continue
we're
expanding
and
as
we
develop
new
concepts
and
as
we
as
ideas
start
to
come
to
life,
if
we
need
to
develop
new
sections
and
if
we
have
enough
sections
where
I
feel
comfortable
and
efficient
that
we
create
a
new
branch,
I'd
be
more
than
happy
to
do
so.
I
just
felt
like
to
be
able
to
run
I'm
somewhat
a
believer
smaller
government's
more
efficient.
D
We
had
five
branches,
I
slimmed
that
down
to
three
branches
and
it
allows
us
for
much
more
hands-on
management
and
for
us
to
build
better,
be
able
to
use
those
resources
for
all
state
government.
I
feel
like
doc.
Jt
is
a
fairly
small
organization
where
less
than
200
staff-
and
I
just
feel
like
again-
this
reorganization
will
just
kind
of
help.
Streamline
us
and
and
help
us
move
forward.
H
I
appreciate
the
explanation
going
that
I've
been
I've
been
receiving
phone
calls
and
comments
from
quite
a
few
people
and,
to
be
honest
with
you,
commissioner,
it's
a
little
different.
What
I'm
hearing
from
what
you're
telling
me!
I
know
running
companies,
I've
gone
through
and
reorganized
I've
resurrected
company
on
a
couple
of
occasions,
and
I
understand
the
dynamics
go
on
because
there's
people
don't
like
change
and
fear
and
uncertainty.
H
You
know
I
get
all
that
stuff,
but
when
you
hear
that
training
material
is
not
available
anymore,
that
they're
being
redirected
to
an
eap
program,
they're
they're
not
feel
like
they're
being
truly
supported
in
terms
of
quite
a
few
different
programs
that
they
thought
they
were
going
to
be
offered.
It's
not
going
to
be
there
anymore.
D
I
would
love
any
details
you
have
because
I
can.
I
am
not
aware
of
any
training
that
we
have
stopped
any
training.
Our
training
has
been
expanding,
but
I
would
love
any
details
you
have.
D
I
would
love
to
talk
to
you
about
that,
because
I
have
become
aware
over
the
past
few
days
resulting
from
some
facebook
posts,
I'm
not
on
facebook,
I'm
not
a
social
media
person
anymore,
but
that
there's
a
lot
of
misinformation
and
I
would
love
for
you
to
even
come
visit
us
and
and
speak
directly
with
folks,
but
just
simply
administratively
moving
a
group
of
folks
who
are
retaining
all
of
their
responsibilities
and
all
of
their
the
whole
part
of
their
function
is
has
not
changed.
D
H
Okay
appreciate
mr
trump,
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
ask
the
questions.
Commissioner,
I
think
it'd
be
fruitful
for
us
to
get
together
about
another
two
weeks.
If
you
could
call
me.
H
H
Is
one
one
particular
avenue
that
we
we've
got
to
be
there
to
support
y'all.
H
Things
so
if
I
can
dispel
or
trying
to
go
through,
our
job
is
oversight
and
support,
and
so
that's
what
I'm
trying
to
that's,
where
I'm
coming
from
to
doing
that.
So
I
wouldn't
encourage
you
to
give
me
a
call
in
a
couple
weeks,
so
we
can
sit
down
and
talk
about
and
either
confirm
or
deny
some
of
these
things
absolutely.
D
And-
and
let
me
also
thank
you
for
your
this
oversight
and
this
concern-
this
is
very,
very
important
and
it
is
very
new
to
law
enforcement
in
general
across
the
country.
This
whole
budding
awareness
of
the
of
the
significance
of
mental
health
and
wellness
is
fairly
new.
D
Now,
there's
a
lot
of
new
territory
that
we're
looking
into
and
again,
I'm
really
excited
about
some
of
the
the
relationships
that
we're
building
with
some
experts
in
the
field,
both
in
psychology
and
and
workplace
stress
that,
but
I
would
love
to
talk
to
you
about
the
direction
that
I'm
looking
to
go
and
get
your
ideas
about
what
other
things
we
may
be
able
to
do.
H
Good
and
mr
chairman,
it's
obviously
your
prerogative
and
I'm
just
a
guest
at
your
committee,
but
I
would
like
to
hear
either
in
this
format
or
another
format
to
have
them
come
back
and
maybe
it's
october
november,
to
get
an
update
on
what's
going
on
because
you
said
it
by
expanding
so
forth.
So
right,
I'm
gonna
hold
your
feet
to
the
fire
and
make
sure.
D
A
A
I
think
that
it
it's
been
more
important
than
it
is
at
this
point,
because
our
officers
are
facing
situations
that
they
have
never
faced
before
and
and
with
every
week
comes
a
new
challenge
that
they
face
out
on
the
streets,
but
you
know
it.
There
is
a
lot
of
support
within
this
legislature
on
both
sides
of
the
aisles
for
law
enforcement
and
that's
going
to
remain,
and
you
know
any
efforts
to
harm
our
law
enforcement
community
will
be
met
with
stern
resistance
from
this
legislature.
A
I
can
assure
you
of
that
but
gentlemen,
thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
hopefully
we
can
get
this
process
started.
I
have
to
agree
with
you.
It
is
a
the
new
range
and
the
new
facility
is
badly
needed.
I
know
that
dlc
jt
is
a
nationally
accredited
academy
and
at
one
time
I
think
we
were
the
only
nationally
accredited
accredited
academy.
A
So
we
have
a
nationwide
reputation
as
being
one
of
the
very
best
in
the
country
and
I'm
very
proud
of
the
academy
that
we
do
have
at
dlcjt
ksp
and
the
other
facilities
throughout
the
state
someday
I'd
like
to
have
the
conversation
about
perhaps
combining
dlct
and
ksp
academies,
but
that's
a
conversation
for
a
different
day.
I
see
benefits
to
that.
I
see
some
economic
fiscal
benefits
to
that,
but
I
know
there
are
other
issues
that
must
also
be
considered,
but
at
some
point
hopefully
we
can
have
that
conversation.
A
A
Okay,
we're
gonna
move
on
to
the
the
second
and
final
item
on
the
agenda,
we'll
be
hearing
about
the
ad
litem
program.
I
think
we
have
secretary
johnson.
A
I
am
good
who
do
you
have
that
will
be
with
you
today.
I
I
Our
auditor,
jerry
hoffman,
is
now
with
legislative
research,
commission
and
she
was
with
the
office
at
the
time
that
the
audit
was
conducted.
So
she
can
answer
questions
that
may
be
specific
to
the
audit.
If
you
have
any
specific
after
my
testimony-
and
I
also
have
tina
howard,
who
is
the
executive
director
of
our
office
of
budget
and
fiscal
management,
and
she
is
oversees
the
specific
administrative
payment
process
for
the
guardian,
headlight
and
payments
that
finance
cabinet
is
in
charge
of
not
college.
I
was
I
look.
I
I
A
I
I
I
Okay,
all
right,
I'm
gonna
get
started
now.
Good
morning,
mr
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee,
I
am
holly
johnson
secretary
of
the
finance
cabinet.
I
These
payments
are
processed
within
and
within
the
cabinet's
office
of
budget
and
financial
management,
but
that
is
not
all
that
obfm
does.
As
you
can
see,
this
office
supports
multiple
entities
within
the
finance
cabinet,
as
well
as
other
general
government
units
attached
to
the
cabinet
for
administrative
support.
I
I
In
doing
so,
this
slide
provides
a
list
of
general
tasks
and
responsibility
of
which
gal
payment
administration
is
just
one
of
many
I'd
like
to
share
with
you
today.
Some
enterprise-wide
changes
we
have
implemented
in
the
finance
administration
cabinet
that
are
significantly
improving
the
processing
of
payments
to
guardian
ad
litem
attorneys.
I
There,
I'm
so
sorry,
okay,
because
the
2019
ga
audit
predates
my
appointment
as
cabinet
secretary.
I
cannot
speak
in
detail
about
what
measures
might
have
been
taken
to
address
any
of
the
audit
findings.
Before
my
arrival
on
december
11
2019.,
however,
I
can
confirm
that
the
form
gals
used
to
submit
the
request
for
payment
was
updated
by
the
previous
administration
as
a
result
of
the
findings
included
in
the
audit.
I
can
also
confirm
that,
at
the
time
of
my
appointment
there
were
there
still
existed
the
practice
of
applying
blanket
approvals
to
all
gal
payments.
I
Blanket
approvals
did
not
provide
the
review
of
each
submission
necessary
to
ensure
the
integrity
of
the
payments
we
quickly
discontinued
that
practice
and
now
review
each
individual
gal
form,
and
we
have
managed
to
conduct
this
more
detailed
review
while
simultaneously
reducing
the
gal
payment
backlog
in
early
2020.
The
gap
cabinet
began
incorporating
extensive
process
improvements,
including
tighter
controls
and
enhanced
efficiencies
into
our
payment
processes.
I
As
you
may
know,
the
staff
in
the
cabinet's
office
in
budget
fiscal
management
administer
the
appropriations
not
otherwise
classified
budget,
which
includes
11.2
million
for
guardian
ad
litem
services
in
fiscal
year,
2021
and
11.1
million
in
fiscal
year.
2022
the
fee
paid
to
gals
for
their
services
is
established
by
the
court
and
the
payments
are
processed
by
the
staff
in
our
division
of
fiscal
management.
I
As
you
can
imagine,
there
is
a
very
high
volume
for
requests
for
payments
to
court.
Appointed
gals
handled
by
our
staff
and
the
process
for
completing
approving
and
filing
is
a
very
tedious
one.
In
fact,
the
division
of
fiscal
management
currently
has
one
employee
whose
workday
is
solely
dedicated
to
the
pros
to
processing
these
gl
payment
requests,
which
average
around
400
to
500
per
week.
At
one
time,
the
processing
of
gal
payments
was
behind
schedule
by
as
much
as
three
months,
which
is
wholly
unacceptable
and
something
your
staff
has
worked
hard
to
remedy.
I
There
we
go.
I
am
pleased
to
share
with
you
today
that
backlog
has
been
reduced
from
three
months
to
two
weeks.
This
reduction
in
the
long-standing
backlog
of
gal
payments
has
been
primarily
accomplished
by
working
closely
with
the
county
clerks
and
attorneys
to
implement
an
updated
electronic
process
for
submitting
forms,
as
well
as
other
process
enhancement.
I
Our
fiscal
staff
now
process
gal
requests
monday
through
wednesday
of
each
week,
so
these
payments
are
ready
to
be
issued
within
the
same
week
and
while
we
hope
to
further
less
in
any
processing,
delays
with
the
ultimate
goal
of
issuing
payments
within
the
same
week
received
this
shortened
turnaround.
Time
is
a
tremendous
improvement,
particularly
considering
it
has
been
implemented
within
the
first
six
months
of
this
calendar
year.
I
Tracking
these
new
fields
will
also
allow
us
the
ability
to
run
detailed
reports
of
payments
that
can
be
sorted
by
attorney
county
as
well
as
type
of
case
previously.
This
was
done
manually.
The
cabinet's
payment
approval
process
also
includes
thorough
auditing
and
approvals
to
further
reduce
the
potential
for
duplicate
or
erroneous
payments.
I
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
appear
before
you
today
and
I
hope
this
information
that
I
have
shared
with
you
has
been
helpful
as
I
introduced
earlier.
I
have
peggy
wheel
height
with
us
and
I
also
have
tina
howard
and
if
you
have
specific
questions
or
very
detailed
questions,
they
can
assist
me
in
answering
those
for
you
today.
A
A
K
C
J
J
C
So
I'm
just
going
to
give
you
a
brief
overview,
I'm
sure
most
of
you,
I
know,
probably
or
some
of
you
actually
practice
family
law
in
our
court
systems
and
probably
are
pretty
familiar
with
our
gal
process.
But
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
brief
overview
for
those
that
don't
know
how
it
kind
of
works.
C
So
we
have
gals
and
then
we
also
have
something
called
court
appointed
attorneys
and
they
are
different,
but
they
are
still
governed
by
our
same
rules.
So
we
have
fcrpps
that
govern
the
behavior
and
the
conduct
of
gals
and
court
appointed
attorneys
court
of
appoint
court
appointed
attorneys
really
act
in
the
interest
of
the
client,
whereas
gals
act
in
the
best
interest
of
the
client
you'll
see
gals
appointed
in
cases
such
as
guardianship.
C
You
also
see
them
appointed
in
cases
such
as
dna
dependency,
neglect
and
abuse
adoptions.
They
also
are
appointed
to
represent
incarcerated
people
when
they
in
civil
actions
at
times
and
then
the
minors
for
trust
and
estates
you'll
see
a
gal
appointed
court.
Appointed
attorneys
are
for
indigent
persons,
they're
appointed
in
criminal
proceedings.
This
isn't
going
to
apply
to
this
presentation,
but
it's
just
a
general
overview
and
also
for
juvenile
respondents,
with
public
offense
cases
and
status.
C
C
C
So
that's
where
we
got
a
lot
of
our
guidelines
for
the
fcrpps
and
that
I'm
going
to
talk
about
that
briefly
and
then
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
nathan,
because
nathan
is
absolutely
the
expert
on
fcrpps,
I'm
just
here
to
introduce
them.
So
the
new
state
wide
rules
were
adopted
by
order
2021
and
they
were
effective
on
2-1
2020..
Now
this
is
right
before
the
pandemic
hit,
but
we
think
that
we
did
a
pretty
good
job
implementing
them
statewide,
even
though,
even
with
the
even
with
the
pandemic.
C
This
work
resulted
in
four
new
rules
and
a
statewide
set
of
standards
for
all
guardian
items
in
court
appointed
attorneys
in
dna
tpr
and
adoption
cases,
so
our
first
fcrpp
is
35
and
that's
the
standards
for
court
appointed
council
now
quarter.
Point
of
council
also
covers
gals,
so
the
new
rules
and
standards
are
listed
here
and
are
included
as
a
handout.
We
discuss
some
in
more
detail
as
we
discuss
changes
in
appointment
and
training.
Fcrpp
is
the
standards
for
court-appointed
counsel,
which
includes
gals.
C
In
addition
to
rules,
35-38
court-appointed
councils
shall
follow
the
statewide
standards
as
found
in
our
appendix
d.
A
circuit
or
district
from
the
statewide
standards
by
way
of
local
rule
have
to
follow
the
fcrpps
and
can
have
a
deviation,
but
only
if
approved
by
the
chief
justice.
They
must
also
incorporate
the
aba
and
or
national
council
of
juvenile
and
family
court
judges
best
practice
standards.
So
you'll
see
that
fcrpp
deals
with
the
standards.
C
I'm
going
to
just
note
that
it's
important
to
point
out
that,
since
all
attorneys
are
all
gals
or
attorneys,
the
office
of
bar
council,
acting
as
agency
of
the
supreme
court,
is
responsible
for
investigating
complaints
against
lawyers
practicing
in
kentucky
the
ovc
also
prosecutes
charges
of
ethical
misconduct
issued
by
the
inquiry.
Commission.
C
I
think
it's
also
important
to
note
that
we
have.
We
have
revamped
our
fcrpps
so
that
the
court
can
also
address
any
misconduct
or
any
problems
with
gals,
and
we
have
actually
had
several
instances
where
courts
have
either
removed
the
gal
from
appointment
for
not
following
the
statewide
standards,
or
they
have
issued
sanctions
against
that
gal.
C
K
K
Can
do
that?
Okay,
very
good?
Thank
you.
We
so
the
next
part
of
it
is
fairly
basic.
I
just
want
to
say
that,
and
this
kind
of
builds
on
what
angie
had
said
part
of
these
new
rules
were
born
from
the
audit,
some
things
about
billing
issues,
maybe
about
disparate
appointments,
things
like
that
which
we
addressed
in
our
probably
the
first
two
rules
and
then
also
the
rule
about
payments,
but
we
also
took
this
opportunity
to
address
some
concerns
that
we
have
heard.
K
For
I
mean
it's
just
been
years
that
we've
heard
it.
I
hope
that
it's
it's
and
I
feel
like
it's
a
limited
number
of
attorneys,
but
we
have
heard
about
gals
not
contacting
children
when
they
represent
them
or-
and
things
like
that.
I
think
some
of
that
might
be
a
little
bit
of
a
misunderstanding
about
the
system,
but
we
did
want
to
take
this
opportunity
since
we
were
looking
at
gal
like
the
process
of
it.
K
We
also
wanted
to
look
at
the
substantive
like
practice
of
it,
and
try
to
improve
that
and
that's
where
that
those
statewide
standards
go
from
so
appointment.
If
you
look
at
through,
I
won't
I'll
go
quickly
through
this.
It's
in
the
powerpoints.
You
have
it,
but
these
are
the
appointments
that
this
is
appointment.
Statute
for
dna
cases-
I'm
sure
you
all
know
all
this
already,
but
when
it
comes
to
dna
we
mean
dependency,
neglect,
abuse
cases
and
not
like
paternity
tests.
But
in
this
case
we
have
a
gal.
K
K
Oh,
requires
that
attorney
be
appointed
or
a
gal
be
appointed
in
a
voluntary
tpr.
So,
basically,
through
the
entire
child
welfare
corps
process,
the
gal
has
to
be
appointed
in
kentucky.
That
glgal
has
to
be
an
attorney
some
states,
they
don't
have
to
be
in
kentucky.
They
do
have
to
be
before
we
started
with
the
rules,
there's
also
appointments
and
adoptions-
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
it,
because
it's
a
little
bit,
probably
more
nuanced
than
we
have
time
for
today,
but
there
are
gals
appointed
in
adoptions
as
well.
K
Let's
see,
typically,
they
are
not
paid
for
by
finance
but
or
by
the
state
they're
paid
for
by
the
petitioner,
but
there
are
instances
when
they
would
be
paid
for
the
state
and
that's
included
in
that
slide.
If
you
have
any
questions,
we'd
be
happy
to
answer
that
so
now
getting
into
the
rules,
and
most
of
the
rules
like
this
is
just
kind
of
a
summary
of.
What's
in
there
rule
36
is
the
appointment
rule.
It
is
basically
what
it
does
is
it
tries
to
open
the
list
to
any
attorney
who's
eligible.
K
So
in
order
to
be
eligible
in
kentucky
now
you
have
to
have
you
be
an
attorney
of
good
standing
in
kentucky
and
you
also
have
to
have
completed
our
the
aoc's
initial
training.
We'll
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
that
in
a
second,
but
these
rules
are
intended
to
open
up
the
the
roster
to
anybody.
That's
available
they're,
also
intended
to
ensure
that
appointment
or
like
actual
appointment
to
individual
cases
are
fair.
They
just
go
by
rotating
list
as
opposed
to
picking
one
for
every
other
case
or
every
case.
K
Those
were
suggestions
from
the
audit,
so
we
took
care
of
that,
but
we
also
wanted
to
reserve
power
to
instill
like
to
still
have
judges
have
the
power
to
control
the
quality
of
practice
in
their
courtroom.
So
in
order
to
do
that
court,
the
court
system
like
aoc,
we
administer
you,
know
the
court.
We
work
with
judges
and
judges.
Of
course
they
they
have
power
over
their
their
court,
but
the
bar
association
has
more
power
over
direct
attorneys
than
we
do.
K
Judges
have
turned
had
a
lot
more
discretion
before
these
rules,
but
these
rules
kind
of
required
these
these
lists
to
be
open.
So
what
we
wanted
to
make
sure
of
was
that
that
didn't
open
list
to
attorneys
who
weren't
like
didn't,
have
their
heart
in
this
practice
or
they
they
were
challenged
by
this
practice.
So
we
allowed,
or
the
rules
allow
judges
to
remove
a
gal
or
a
parent
attorney
if
that
parent
or
that
attorney
is
not
keeping
up
with
the
standards
that
we
established,
which
is
not
that's
a
pretty
significant
sanction.
K
You
don't
see
that
very
often
a
sanction
specifically
allowing
a
judge
to
remove
an
attorney
and,
let's
see
and
judge
van
over
feel
free
to
step
in
if
you
have
any
any
things,
I'm
going
really
fast,
but
so
the
next
bit
of
the
appointment
rules
it
has.
It
talks
about
indigency.
The
audit
made
a
point
of
saying
that
it
appeared
that
some
judges
may
not
have
completed
the
indigency
inquiry
before
appointing
attorneys.
K
You
know
ensuring
that
these
these
parties
are
eligible
for
an
attorney,
but
they
also
have
to
balance
that
against
you
know
due
process
rights
because
sometimes
the
the
the
party's,
not
there,
the
parents,
not
there
to
say
that
they're
indigent.
So
anyway,
we
try
to
balance
that
by
giving
a
leeway
five
days
if
the
party
is
not
there,
but
we
are
requiring
it
agency
affidavit
and
then-
and
I
don't
see
a
clock
on
anything
around
me.
So
let
me
how
much
time
do
I
have
10
minutes
all
right.
Thank
you.
K
I
appreciate
that,
so
we
also
have
provisions
in
the
appointment
rules
to
to
make
sure
that
the
the
attorney
list
doesn't
stay
stagnant.
We
want
courts
to
review
those
at
least
every
four
years.
A
lot
of
courts
are
doing
it
more
often
than
that,
but
we
have.
But
the
rules
have
four
years,
and
I
say
weave
it's
not
we
it's
really
the
supreme
court
that
created
these
rules.
K
So
forgive
me
if
I
say
we
on
that,
but
also
the
when
I
talked
about
a
point
appointing
attorneys,
sequentially
or
in
a
fair
way,
as
opposed
to
picking
and
choosing
attorneys,
that
is
included
in
fcrp
36.
I
believe
seven,
okay,
one
thing
that
you
all
are
the
in
the
request
to
come
here.
It
said
something
about
shortcomings
in
our
system
right
now,
and
this
is
probably
the
biggest
shortcoming
that
we
have
one
of
the
biggest
I'm
sorry
and
that
or
that
is
the
fee
structure
that
we
have
for
these
cases.
K
I
practiced
in
these
cases
before
I
joined
aoc,
and
I
can
tell
you
that
if
you
do
it
the
right
way,
it's
easy
to
to
end
up
with
20
30
hours.
On
these
cases,
and
sometimes
more,
unfortunately,
the
way
our
fee
structure
is
set
up,
you're
limited
to
500
at
the
most
on
these
cases
and
then,
if
you're
in
district
court,
it's
actually
half
of
that
which
is
anyway.
There
was
a
bill
that
that
sought
to
equalize
that
we've
we've
asked
that
they
feel
like
that.
K
It
should
be
equal
on
those,
since
it's
just
a
matter
of
you
know
a
couple
flights
of
stairs,
sometimes
on
which
court
you're
in
whether
you're
in
district
or
family
anyway.
So
that's
something
to
consider,
because
it's
very
low
compared
to
the
time
and
also
compared
to
some
other
states-
and
I
think,
judge
vanover,
had
something
to
say
about
this
as
well.
J
The
attorneys
that
practice
in
the
district
courts
are
doing
the
same
level
of
work
that
they
are
doing
in
the
family
courts
they're
required
to
put
in
the
time
they're
held
to
the
same
standards
they're
treating
the
same
type
of
cases
and,
frankly,
they
sh
their
level
of
pay
should
be
equal
to
what's
going
on
in
the
circuit
course
in
the
family
courts.
So
we
would
definitely-
and
I
think,
we've
asked
for
this
before
we're-
definitely
asked
to
increase
that
to
the
500
level
across
the
board.
J
However,
I
also
wanted
to
point
out
that
this
level,
the
500
itself,
is
low
compared
to
surrounding
states.
A
couple
of
years
ago,
justice
lambert
was
attending
a
training
in
another
state
and
indicated
that
alabama,
for
example,
pays
up
to
2
500
per
case
on
this,
and
I
know
that
that
is
seems
like
a
lot,
but
compared
to
what
we're
receiving
for
or
what
our
attorneys
are
receiving.
I
just
wanted
to
put
that,
in
contrast,.
K
K
K
A
gal
attorneys
has
to
have
they
have
to
have
training,
that's
kind
of
appropriate
to
the
role,
but
they
also
have
to
have
child
development
training
which,
if
you
think
about
it's,
really
important
because
they're
going
to
be
dealing
with
child
clients.
So
it's
a
different
way
to
approach
and
build
rapport
so
having
child
development.
Just
a
lot
of
some
of
us
have
spent
a
while,
since
we've
been
a
kid,
so
it's
kind
of
important
to
see
how
they're
talking
now
and
how
you
know
how
to
approach
them.
K
So
you
can
represent
them
the
best
way
possible.
We
all
so
in
the
new
family
court
rules
we
added
that
they,
it
was
mandatory
that
they
complete
our
training.
We
have
been
give
we've
been
training
or
putting
out
a
training
for
guardians
of
light
for
about
a
decade,
maybe
longer
so,
and
a
lot
of
judges
do
mandate
that
they
take
our
training,
but
not
everybody.
So
we
just
decided-
or
in
this
rules
they
decided
to
just
make
it
mandatory.
So
you
have
to
have
completed
our
training
before
you
can
be
appointed.
B
J
One
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
point
out
in
regard
to
this
training
is
not
only
do
attorneys
to
get
on.
The
list
are
required
to
participate
in
the
in
the
12-hour
training,
but
to
maintain
their
appointment
on
the
list.
They
have
to
receive
four
hours
every
two
years
of
additional
training
to
get
to
remain
on
these
lists
and
remain
eligible
for
these
appointments.
I
want
to
point
out
this
is
one
of
the
few
instances
where
it's
mandated
that
attorneys
receive
specific
training
to
do
a
particular
kind
of
work.
K
Okay,
so
since
we
were
mandating
that
all
these
attorneys
had
to
take
our
training,
we
decided
that
we
wanted
to
take
a
really
close
look
at
our
training
to
see
if
it
needs
to
be
improved
if
it
could
be
more
effective
or
efficient.
K
K
Three
minutes:
okay,
yeah:
these
are
our
training
tracks.
I'm
really
proud
of
these.
I
won't
go
into
all
the
details
because
I'm
sure
you
all
are
familiar
with
a
lot
of
these
topics,
but
we
really
focused
on
reasonable
efforts,
which
is
a
federal
and
state
requirement,
but
it's
also
kind
of
the
the
cornerstone.
Maybe
that's
not
the
right
term,
but
it's
like
the
overarching
kind
of
oversight
in
a
way
that
the
court
system
does
for
in
these
child
welfare
cases.
K
Reasonable
efforts
to
the
agency
has
to
make
reasonable
efforts
to
prevent
removal
and
to
reunify
up
to
a
certain
point,
and
there
are
some
exclusions.
But
overall,
that's
the
the
goal
and
the
courts
are
kind
of
empowered
to
you
know
hold
their
feet
to
the
fire
for
lack
of
better
words.
So
we
began
with
kind
of
a
rallying
cry
about
reasonable
efforts
and
a
reminder
of
how
important
it
is
the
rest
of
them
I
won't
go
into,
but
we
were
really
excited
about
including
trauma
like
from
the
previous
discussion
like
every.
K
K
We
did
have
some
suggestions
for
changes
which
we
are
going
to
look
into
and
improve
for
the
next
cycle.
I,
when
you
all
have
another
chance,
take
a
look
at
the
because
I
know
we're
out
of
time.
Take
a
look,
if
you
don't
mind
at
the
two
attachments
that
we
provided.
One
is
the
frequently
asked
questions.
Foster
parents
are
relative
caregivers,
the
other
is
know
your
rights
booklet
on
dna
cases.
K
These
booklets
provide
a
wealth
of
information
for
especially
people
who
are
not
familiar
with
the
legal
system.
It
tells
them
who
they
need
to
talk
to
if
they're
not
getting
con
or
got
not
getting
noticed,
who
they
need
to
talk
to
if
their
attorney's
not
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
do,
if
their
judge
is
not
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
do.
K
If
the
cabinet's
not
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
do,
how
to
navigate
the
clerk's
office,
you
know
things
like
that
which
we
we
get
a
lot
of
questions,
and
when
I
practice
I
got
a
lot
of
questions
about
that.
So
it's
nice
to
have
like
thinking
of
a
practitioner
having
something
you
can
hand
to
the
client
that
has
a
lot
of
information
already
in
there
with
your
contact
information.
Hopefully,
so
we're
really
excited
to
see
how
that
works
out
future
projects,
we're
just
looking
we're
just
looking
at
how
our
training
worked.
K
A
K
It
depends
we,
a
lot
of
them
are
new,
newer
attorneys,
because
it's
a
way
to
it's
a
way
to
to
help
people
to
help
clients
like
from
the
get-go
like
a
lot
of
attorneys.
You
know,
especially
if
you're
an
associate
you
might
not
be
in
court.
K
I
don't
know
I
was
never
at
a
big
firm,
so
I
don't
know
how
it
works,
but
you
might
not
be
in
court
for
a
while,
but
this
way
you
can
get
right
in
there
and
help
clients
also,
but
we
also
have
many
who
have
been
doing
it
for
years.
They're,
family
law,
practitioners,
there's
a
significant
overlap
between
family
law.
In
these
cases
there
can
be
a
significant
overlap
between
family
law,
of
course,
includes
domestic
violence,
but
domestic
violence
practice
these
cases
and
family
law.
K
So
you
know
we
have
just
a
range
of
people
and
then
we
have
people
who
worked
at
you
know
they
might
have
been
corporate
or
not,
but
corporate
council
or
legal
counsel
to
an
agency
and
they're
volunteering.
You
know
this
is
kind
of
like
a
retirement
kind
of
thing.
They
still
want
to
help,
but
they
don't
want
to
yeah.
So
it's
a
wide
variety.
Sorry.
B
K
Yes,
there's
eight
eight
right
now
credit
or
hours,
but
we
we're
working
on
having
a
ethics
hour
also
it'd
be
kind
of
a
separate
thing
and
we
have
other
things
that
we've
been
working
on
through
cip,
but
for
the
training,
eight
hours
yeah
and
it's
over
two
tracks,
and
you
can
do
it
on
demand.
But
we
try.
We
try
to
schedule
it
at
least
once
a
month,
so.
B
K
K
Yeah
fayette,
you
have
more
available
in
some
counties,
especially
if
you
have
a
rural
county
with
the
25
or
250
district
court
as
opposed
to
a
family
court.
You
know
it.
It
might
be
hard
to
get
somebody
to
travel
in
from
another
county
or
to
to
do
this.
A
Obviously,
no
financial
incentive
to
do
this.
It's
it's
done
out
of
the
goodness
of
your
heart.
I
guess
essentially
yeah.
Okay.
What
do
we
spend
annually
on
average
for
gl's
in
the
in
the
budget?
Do
you
all
know,
madam
secretary,
do
you
know
that
if
you're
still
there
there,
she
is
you're,
muted.
K
I
can
answer.
I
took
a
note
on
that.
If
that's
okay
secretary,
it
was
11.2
million
in
fiscal
year
21
and
then
11
8.18
million.
This
is
a.
K
A
Good
are
there
any
other
questions?
There's
no
one
left,
but
just
thank
you
all
so
much
for
being
here
and
it's
you
know
I've
a
lot.
I
need
to
learn.
A
I'm
going
to
take
the
time
to
read
all
of
this,
and
I
I
appreciate
you
all
being
here
and
I
appreciate
the
services
that
our
gals
provide
and
I
think
it
is
very
critical
that
our
children
be
represented
in
court
and
their
best
interests
be
looked
out
for
that's
a
huge
part
of
our
system,
but
appreciate
the
information
and
hope
to
hear
from
you
again
some
point
in
more
detail
in
the
future.
But
thank
you
so
much
for
your
work,
madam
secretary.