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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Judiciary (7-8-21)
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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
everybody,
we're
gonna
go
ahead
and
get
started
here.
I
know
we've
got
folks
in
the
room.
Appreciate
everybody's
attendance
here
appreciate
our
folks
that
are
appearing
remotely
we're
gonna
go
ahead
and
jump
right
in
so
we
have
as
much
time
as
possible
on
our
meeting
this
morning.
So
with
that,
I
will
ask
madam
secretary
to
please
call
the
roll.
B
B
B
A
All
right
welcome
everybody
glad
to
have
you
all
back
here
before
the
judiciary
committee
glad
to
have
another
vibrant
interim
already
underway
here
in
kentucky
on
all
of
our
various
committees,
though
all
of
them
are
subordinate
and
less
nice
than
ours
here
in
the
judiciary
committee,
but
we're
still
glad
you're
here.
A
I
appreciate
the
presenters,
both
in
person
and
remote
and
with
that
we're
going
to
get
started
in
just
a
second
after
we
approve
the
minutes
from
last
month's
meeting.
Is
there
a
motion
motion
from
the
vice
chair?
Second
from
I
saw
the
senator
and
the
representative
I'll
take
either
one
all
those
in
favor
of
approving
the
minutes.
Please
vote
by
saying
aye
aye,
as
opposed
all
right
minutes
are
approved.
We're
gonna
go
in
order
here
on
the
on
the
docket.
I
have
given
each
one
of
these
groups
a
time
limit.
A
We're
gonna
try
to
stick
to
that.
So
we
can
give
enough
time
for
questions
at
the
end
of
each
one
of
these
sections
here.
So
we're
gonna
jump
right
in
jasmine.
Are
you
with
us?
I
see
you
there
make
sure
you
can
hear
us
welcome
good
morning.
H
Chairman
westerfield,
thank
you
so
much
and
thank
you
to
you
to
chairman
massey
and
to
the
entire
committee
for
for
having
us
remotely
and
I'm
sorry
that
we
can't
be
there.
A
A
Very
good,
well,
jasmine!
You
have
the
floor.
H
Thank
you
so
much
chairman
and
and
again
you
know
special
thanks
to
everyone
for
engaging
with
this
material
this
morning
and
for
allowing
us
to
present
from
many
different
places
across
the
country.
Right
now
to
you
all
in
the
commonwealth
to
quickly
introduce
myself.
My
name
is
jasmine
heiss
and
I
direct
the
in
our
backyards
initiative
at
the
vera
institute
of
justice
and
our
work
in
that
project
is
focused
on
addressing
the
rise
of
jail
incarceration
outside
of
major
cities
in
smaller
cities
in
rural
counties.
H
H
G
Thank
you,
jasmine
and
good
morning.
Everyone
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
share
the
results
of
this
analysis
with
you.
The
data
presented
here
is
based
on
reports
from
the
office
of
the
state
budget
director
that
lists
actual
disbursements
and
receipts
for
almost
every
county
in
kentucky,
and
this
analysis
is
based
on
fiscal
years
2007
through
2019
and
we're
in
the
process
of
incorporating
data
from
2020
as
well.
So
you'll
see
a
preview
of
that
in
this
presentation.
G
G
G
Even
though
almost
all
counties
saw
reductions
in
their
jail
populations
during
the
covet
19
pandemic,
rural
communities
still
have
the
highest
incarceration
rates
in
kentucky.
By
far
and
over
half
of
all,
people
in
local
deals
in
kentucky
were
in
rural
areas.
As
of
june
17
2021,
taking
a
closer
look
at
spending
on
jails
in
2019,
the
average
county
spent
3.4
million
dollars
or
15
of
its
total
budget
on
jail
expenses.
G
The
variance
also
reflects
the
different
ways
that
jails
are
used
across
the
state
in
terms
of
who
makes
up
the
jail
population.
So
we
know
that
in
2019,
for
example,
70
out
of
the
state's
120
counties
house,
people
for
the
department
of
corrections,
41
counties
held
people
for
other
counties
and
22
counties
held
people
for
federal
authorities.
G
I
pulled
out
just
a
few
counties
to
highlight
some
of
this
variants,
so
fulton
counties
of
royal
county
in
the
western
part
of
the
state.
It
was
at
the
higher
end
of
the
spectrum
spending
72
percent
of
its
budget,
or
about
6.6
million
dollars
from
the
jail
in
2019
and
as
of
the
end
of
april,
about
97
of
fulton
county's
jail
population
was
being
held
for
the
kentucky
department
of
corrections,
which
makes
it
a
de
facto
state
prison,
and
this
is
also
reflected
in
its
jail
revenues
about
73
of
its
jail.
G
Revenues
come
from
the
state.
By
contrast,
carla
county
is
a
neighboring
rural
county
without
a
deal
meaning
it
contracts
with
other
counties
to
house
people
in
their
jail.
It
was
on
the
lower
end
of
the
spectrum
spending
about
three
percent
of
its
total
budget
on
jail
expenses,
including
the
cost
of
contracts
with
other
counties,
as
well
as
the
jailer,
salary
and
transportation
costs
associated
with
moving
people.
G
G
The
overall
spending
on
the
deal
was
less
than
average
under
a
million
dollars
and
about
14
of
its
annual
budget,
and
actually
we
see
that
that
life
safety
jails,
along
with
counties
with
no
jail
facilities
actually
and
counties
with
regional
jails
spent
significantly
less
per
resident
and
as
a
percent
of
the
overall
budget
than
counties
were
the
full
service
jail
counties
with
a
full
service
deal
spent
about
16
percent
of
their
budget
on
average
and
98
dollars
per
resident
on
jail
costs,
while
counties
without
a
jail
spent
about
half
of
that
on
average.
G
So,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
one
of
the
goals
of
our
study
was
to
estimate
potential
cost
savings
that
could
be
achieved
by
reducing
the
jail
population
so
a
little
bit
about
our
model
and
how
we
compute
these
savings,
as
counties
have
increased
their
capacity
to
jail
people
over
time.
They
increase
both
variable
and
fixed
expenses
within
the
jail
budget.
G
So
we
assume
that
variable
savings
could
be
attained
immediately
when
jail
populations
are
reduced,
so
that
would
be
like
food
contracted
health
care
uniforms,
while
savings
from
downsizing
of
corrections.
Officers,
for
example,
would
be
attained
only
when
the
jail
population
is
reduced
enough
to
close
a
housing
unit,
which
we
estimate
at
about
50
beds.
G
So
this
would
include
educational
staff,
psychiatrists
social
workers,
counselors,
etc,
and
one
more
important
note
about
our
model
is
that
we
developed
estimates
based
on
reducing
the
number
of
people
in
jail
that
are
held
under
local
authority.
G
Kenton
county
also
holds
people
for
the
state,
but
it
also
has
a
substantial
local
population
in
jail,
and
here
a
35
percent
reduction
represents
holding
128
fewer
people
in
the
jail
each
year
and
that
would
lead
to
almost
950
000
in
annual
savings
in
jessamine
county.
This
is
a
county
with
a
smaller
jail
that
mostly
holds
local
people.
We
would
expect
to
see
almost
400
thousand
dollars
in
savings
from
a
35
reduction
in
the
local
jail
population
across
the
commonwealth.
G
Kentucky
saw
a
28
reduction
in
the
locally
held
jail
population
from
january
to
december
2020,
and
this
was
largely
as
a
result
of
efforts
to
reduce
the
spread
of
covet
19
behind
bars.
This
rapid
reduction
shows
that
reducing
the
jail
population
safely
is
possible
and
in
fact,
if
every
county
maintained
the
reduction
it
saw
in
2020
the
estimated
cost
savings
statewide
would
be
over
30
million
dollars
annually.
G
Now,
when
we
published
this
analysis
earlier
in
the
year,
2020
budget
data
was
not
yet
available
for
every
county,
but
it
now
is,
while
we're
still
analyzing
this
data
and
we
plan
to
incorporate
it
into
our
tool
in
the
next
several
months.
I
wanted
to
take
this
opportunity
to
share
an
initial
preview
of
it
with
you.
G
At
the
same
time,
jail
spending
actually
increased
modestly.
By
about
1.5
percent
or
6
billion,
now
fiscal
year,
2020
budgets
were
approved
prior
to
covet
19.
So
we
wouldn't
necessarily
expect
this
data
to
reflect
full
reductions
in
spending
that
may
have
occurred
as
a
result
of
reduced
jail
populations.
G
So
within
personnel
expenses,
the
biggest
increases
occurred
for
retirement
costs,
for
deputies,
for
health
insurance,
for
jail
personnel
and
for
medical
personnel,
and
the
biggest
decreases
were
for
part-time
and
first
and
temporary
staff,
cooks,
overtime,
pay,
secretaries
and
training
fringe
benefits
within
debt
service.
The
biggest
increases
were
for
principal
payments
on
bonds,
and
these
were
concentrated
in
a
handful
of
counties
that
include
muhlenberg
laurel,
bourbon,
henderson
and
perry
counties
within
contracted
services
and
capital
outlays.
G
Although
the
full
impact
of
defelonization
merits
further
analysis,
there
are
non-budgetary
considerations
as
well.
So
prior
research
from
the
state
auditor
showed
that
the
practice
of
housing
people
for
the
state
caused
or
exacerbated
overcrowding
in
70
of
kentucky's
jails,
with
negative
impacts
on
facility
safety
and
access
to
programming
and
services
for
incarcerated
people.
G
G
Release
it's
paid
by
people
who
are
serving
out
a
felony
sentence
in
jail
as
a
conduct,
condition
of
conditional
discharge
or
probation,
and
this
amount
is
actually
deducted
from
the
amount
the
doc
pays,
the
jail
for
the
cost
of
housing
that
person
so
looking
a
little
more
closely
at
how
much
jail
revenue
counties
collect
in
the
form
of
jail
fees
and
charges
on
average
counties
receive
only
about
five
percent
of
their
jail
revenues
from
jail
fees,
but
this
represents
more
than
24
million
dollars
extracted
from
some
of
the
state's
poorest
residents
in
2019..
G
So,
as
you
can
see,
these
fees
include
telephone
commissions
fees
charged
to
people
for
being
on
work,
release
fees
charged
people
for
the
cost
of
their
incarceration,
as
well
as
home,
incarceration
fees,
bond
payment
and
bond
acceptance,
fees
and
warrant
service
fees,
among
others
again
telephone
commissions
represent
the
largest
source
of
revenue
drawn
from
incarcerated
people,
and
it's
worth
noting
also
that
the
phone
commissions
that
county
generates
is
only
a
portion
of
the
total
cost
of
fees
charged
to
incarcerated
people
to
stay
in
touch
with
their
loved
ones.
G
I
My
name
is
chris
may,
and
I
lead
a
body
of
work
at
the
bureau
institute
that
seeks
to
understand
the
role
that
fines
and
fees
and
court
costs
play
in
the
justice
system.
More
broadly
so,
including
things
like
jail
fees,
that
bao
is
just
discussing,
but
also
conviction,
fees,
fees
for
things
like
probation,
all
kinds
of
charges
on
people
throughout
the
system
go
ahead
next
slide.
I
So
there's
a
couple
key
questions
that
we
ask
when
we're
studying
fines
and
fees.
The
first
is
sort
of
what's
the
impact
on
the
individual,
and
we
see
this
in
kentucky.
We
see
it
across
other
states
that
we
studied
too,
is
that
fines
and
fees
quickly
start
to
add
up.
This
is
just
a
hey.
A
A
Are
you
able
to
hold
your
mic
or
or
turn
your
volume
up
any
or
we
can?
We
turn
the
volume
up
in
here
in
a
little
bit.
I
A
I
Thanks
right,
so
one
of
the
first
questions
that
we
like
to
study
is
what
are
the
impact
of
fines
and
fees
on
an
individual
who's
in
the
justice
system.
So
this
is
a
sample
of
different
costs
that
someone
might
face
in
kentucky.
It's
not
totally
comprehensive,
but
we
start
with
fines
for
felonies,
there's
a
minimum,
1
000
fine
and
a
500
fine
for
misdemeanors,
and
then
fees
start
to
add.
On
top
of
that,
so
there's
a
flat,
140
court
cost
goes
up
a
little
bit
for
traffic
cases.
I
I
thought
this
one
was
interesting
in
terms
of
expunging
records.
That's
a
hundred
dollar
fee
for
misdemeanors
and
500
felonies.
So
we
like
to
get
this
comprehensive.
Look
just
to
see
what
what
are
people
facing.
We
know
that
you
know
many
people
who
are
in
the
justice
system
are
on
the
lower
end
of
the
income
spectrum,
so
these
can
quickly
start
to
add
up
next
slide.
I
I
So
the
commonwealth
collected
22.5
million
dollars
in
criminal
and
traffic
fines
and
costs,
which
is
you
know
millions
of
dollars?
That's
a
lot
of
money,
but
in
the
context
of
overall
general
fund
revenue,
it's
this
pie
chart
it's
0.2
percent,
so
it's
quite
small
relative
to
obviously
larger
sources
of
revenue
that
the
state
collects,
and
so
we
like
to
look
at
those
kind
of
two
sides
of
the
coin.
I
Imbalance
is
that
it
can
be
quite
expensive
for
individuals,
but
tends
to
be-
and
this
is
something
that
we
see
in
other
states
too,
tends
to
be
around-
maybe
half
a
percent
point
or
or
less
of
total
general
fund
revenues,
and
we
do
know
that
kentuckians
broadly
owe
91
million
dollars
in
unpaid
court
debt.
And
what
we
see
in
other
places
is
that
that
debt
is
kind
of
there's
a
low
expectation
that
that
money
will
be
coming
in
in
many
cases,
because
people
are
indigent,
sometimes
they're
incarcerated.
I
I
That
yeah,
that
is
from
a
very
recent
report
that
came
out
the
source,
is
at
the
bottom:
it's
the
fines
of
fees,
justice
center.
So
that
number
is
reason
as
of
this
year.
I
think
it's
kind
of
looking
back,
maybe
five
or
ten
years.
I
don't
know
if
it's
fully
comprehensive,
all
debt
that
anyone
holds
from
any
court
case
that
could
be
20
years
old.
But
it's
a
it's
a
very
recent.
I.
A
Was
I
was
curious
and
I've
raised
this
question
with
aoc
and
I'm
not
asking
you
to
respond
to
it
and
aoc
is
not
here
to
defend
itself,
but
but
I
hope
to
have
him
at
a
future
meeting
again
to
speak
about
this
in
particular.
But
one
of
the
frustrating
things
about
the
pandemic
was
that
the
discontinuation
of
the
show
cost.
Dockets.
A
So
that's
why
I
was
curious.
How
recent
that
data
was
my
question
to
aoc
and
I
hope
they
can
come
in
and
talk
to
us
about
it
at
a
future
meeting
is
how
much
how
much
of
a
rear
edge
has
been
built
up
or
how
many
people
have
not
been
responsible
about
paying,
since
they
haven't
had
to
show
up
in
front
of
a
court
to
explain
why
they
haven't.
I
Yeah
and
one
follow-up
that
could
be
interesting
if
they're
able
to
study
this
question
the
state
of
florida.
I
They
have
a
figure
like
this
similar,
like
sort
of
here's,
the
unpaid
court
debt
broadly,
and
they
also
break
it
down
by
how
many
of
the
people
associated
with
that
debt
sort
of
what
percent
of
that
debt
is
associated
with
people
who
are
indigent
and
people
who
are
currently
incarcerated.
So
if
they're
currently
incarcerated,
of
course,
they're
going
to
have
trouble
paying
off
the
debt
that
they
owe
if
they're
indigent,
I
think
you
know
just
like
for
other
things
like
we
sort
of
want
to
make
accommodations
that
there's
other
basic
needs.
I
They
want
to
be
paying
and
taking
care
of
with
the
money
that
they
do
have.
So
I
think
that
would
be
interesting
in
florida
it
tended
to
be
quite
high,
but
that
would
kind
of
get
the
question
you're
you're
talking
about,
which
is
how
to
balance
accountability
with
recognizing
that
some
people
don't
have
ability
to
pay.
I
So.
Finally,
one
question
that
we
like
to
study
is
kind
of
the
process
of
collecting
that
money,
which
is
the
point
that
was
just
raised
to.
I
don't
have
great
data
from
kentucky,
so
this
slide
lists
some
data
that
we
have
from
other
states,
but
we
do
know
that
fines
and
fees
can
be
expensive
to
collect
so
the
brennan
center.
They
did
a
sample
of
counties
across
the
country
and
found
that
on
average,
it
cost
40
cents
to
collect
one
dollar
in
fines
and
fees.
I
They
contrast
that
with,
for
example,
you
know
the
irs
collecting
federal
tax
revenue.
They
spend
one
third
of
a
cent
to
collect
one
dollar,
so
it's
because
of
additional
court
appointments
and
sometimes
sort
of
jail
time.
I
All
these
other
factors
that
are
being
brought
in
as
like
accounting
for
the
cost
of
collections-
and
this
is
the
stat
that
I
was
looking
at
before
in
florida,
the
courts
collected,
they
collect
only
73
of
the
amounts
that
they
assess
and
that
rate
becomes
particularly
low
for
felony
cases
19
and
finds
a
visa
on
juveniles
31
in
virginia
similarly
pretty
low,
63
and
and
again.
I
I
While
people
are
incarcerated,
we
know
that
it
tends
to
be
their
family
members
that
are
paying
for
those
fees,
because
they're
not
able
to
earn
money
while
they're
incarcerated
and
certainly
for
things
like
telephone
calls
things
that
help
them
stay
connected
to
their
community,
their
families.
I
That
is
a
policy
that
we
certainly
promote.
Second
ability
to
pay
hearings
are
pretty
critical.
You
do
want
to
distinguish
where
and
if
people
do
not
have
ability
to
pay
or
where
paying
court
costs
would
cut
into
affording
basic
needs
and
then
three
forgiving
outstanding
criminal
justice
debt.
This
is
something
that
already
does
take
place.
For
example,
there's
a
in
other
states.
We
study
there
are
statutes
of
limitations
on
you
know.
I
After
20
years,
sometimes
places
have
sort
of
debt
forgiveness
days
where,
if
people
go
in,
they
can
have
debt
wiped,
they
can
demonstrate
a
low
ability
to
pay,
and
it
you
know,
helps
people
kind
of
escape
from
that
debt
that
might
be
from
10
or
15
years
old
that
they
truly
don't
have
an
ability
to
to
make
up
for,
and
I
will
pass
it
back
to
baya
to
wrap
up
the
recommendations.
G
So,
thank
you,
chris,
so
just
a
couple
more
recommendations
regarding
the
jail
cost
base.
G
H
Thank
you,
and
I
will
just
bring
us
home
so
that
we
can
open
up
for
questions.
So
you
know,
broadly
speaking,
when
we
talk
about
reducing
jail
populations,
there
are
always
two
factors
we're
looking
at
we're
looking
at,
who
is
going
into
jail
and
how
long
they
are
staying
and
those
you
know
ultimately,
for
both
jails
and
prisons
will
determine
the
jail
population.
H
So,
in
order
to
reduce
that
locally
held
jail
population,
one
of
the
things
to
do
is
reduce
bookings
into
jail.
During
the
pandemic,
we
saw
that
the
biggest
declines
in
jail
bookings
were
for
driving
court
and
drug
related
offenses
nationally,
and
I
think
there
is
a
real
policy
question
beneath
that
of
whether
there
are
some
offenses
for
which
jail
bookings
in
the
future
could
continue
to
be
avoided
altogether,
particularly
with
an
emphasis
on
things
like
diversion
or
referral
to
services
for
people
who
struggle
with
mental
health
issues,
with
substance
use
and
generally
with
poverty.
H
I
also
want
to
underscore
the
importance
of
reducing
jail
length
of
stay
last
session.
We
saw
senate
bill
223
introduced
by
senator
brandon
storm,
which
would
have
created
a
meaningful
speedy
trial
clock
for
kentuckians
who
are
held
pre-trial
in
the
jail,
and
that
would
not
have
resulted
in
a
dismissal
of
the
case,
but
simply
after
a
particular
amount
of
time,
the
release
of
people
unless
they
were
found
to
be
a
public
safety
risk.
H
So
really
saying
you
know
if
we
believe
that
there
is
a
constitutional
right,
a
sixth
amendment
right
to
speedy
trial
that
needs
to
be
made
concrete
and
tangible
for
people
who
are
unconvicted
who
are
simply
being
detained
because
they
can't
pay
money
bail
and
that
the
purpose
of
pretrial
detention
should
be
narrowly
and
specifically
focused
on
public
safety.
After
that
period.
H
I
already
talked
briefly
about
diverting
people
with
behavioral
health
needs
away
from
the
justice
system.
I
know
that
the
commonwealth
has
been
focused
for
quite
some
time
on
making
sure
that
access
to
treatment
for
people
with
substance
use
disorder
is
really
a
part
of
and
connected
to
the
justice
system
and
then
to
really
just
underscore
again.
You
know
the
importance
of
thinking
about
releasing
people
without
money,
bail
pre-trial.
H
Things
like
drug
testing
and
gps
monitoring
when
it
is
found
that
those
are
the
conditions
that
people
need,
rather
than
imposing
them
as
blanket
conditions.
We've
seen
jurisdictions
across
the
country,
mostly
at
the
county
level,
move
away
from
blanket
conditions
based
on
charge
type
for
example,
and
really
particularized
findings
that
reflect
again
a
public
safety
consideration
and
a
consideration
of
whether
or
not
people
are
going
to
come
to
court.
So
with
that,
I
will
close
with
our
presentation
and
thank
you
again
for
your
time
this
morning
and
we're
very
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
A
Jasmine
baia
and
chris,
thank
you
all
three.
I
appreciate
it
helpful
presentation.
I
mean
the
objective
and
I
think
we'd
all
agree
in
the
committee.
The
objective
should
first
to
make
sure
that
we're
improving
and
maintaining
public
safety
the
highest
level
of
public
safety.
We
can
possible,
as
if
it
happens,
that
we
were
able
to
be
more
efficient
financially
from
a
fiscal
position
in
the
process.
Then
that's
just
bonus,
that's
fantastic,
but
there
are
ways
I
think,
and
you've
highlighted
several-
that
we
can
address
that.
A
I
also
appreciate
the
mention
or
the
highlight
on
one
of
the
slides
showing
the
costs
or
the
the
revenue
generated
from
these
jail
phone
commissions.
Some
of
the
members
of
this
committee
are
going
to
are
going
to
remember
that
being
an
issue
that
was
brought
up
this
past
session.
Briefly,
though,
didn't
go
anywhere,
we
had
a
jail
task
force
last
year
that
looked
at
a
number
of
issues,
and
that
was
one
of
them
and
I
maintained
that
these
jail
phone
service
commissions
are
not
a
good
public
policy.
A
I'd
love
to
get
rid
of
them,
but
I
can't
pull
that
off.
But
when
you've
got
some
jails
that
are
earning
a
50-plus
percent
commission
on
the
fees
paid
to
this
for
this
services,
these
services
and
in
some
instances,
some
of
that
money-
doesn't
all
go
back
to
the
jail.
Some
of
it
goes
to
the
fiscal
court.
Sometimes
it
all
goes
back
to
the
jail.
Sometimes
it's
used
for
other
things.
The
fiscal
court
needs
that's
not
the
way
we
should
make
ends
meet
for
public
correction
related
dollars
and
it's
usually
paid
by.
A
As
you
talked
about
some
of
the
poorest
people
in
our
counties.
If
we're
going
to
build
the
facilities
to
house
folks,
then
the
the
the
county
ought
to
be
responsible
for
the
facilities
it
wants
to
create.
The
state
should
be
responsible
for
the
facilities
it
wants
to
create
and
not
charge
that
out,
just
because
it
can.
A
I
I
want
to
highlight.
I
know
that
the
auditor's
office
has
been
putting
together
a
data
bulletin
on
the
topic
of
jail,
communication
services,
contracts
that
there's
no
open
bidding
or
not
consistently
around
all
the
state
from
county
to
county
those
commissions
vary
widely.
I
mean
I've.
There
are
some
jails
that
have
the
commission
with
this
provider.
Instead
of
that
one,
because
that's
the
provider,
the
last
jailer
had
they
didn't
want
to
rock
the
boat.
A
There
ought
to
be
competitive
bidding
for
those
things
and
drive
those
prices
down
for
the
taxpayer
and
the
people
who
are
footing
the
bill
for
the
facilities
we
have
around
the
state.
I'm
told
the
auditor's
office.
Their
data
bulletin
will
be
released
soon.
I
don't
know
when
that
is,
but
soon
so
keep
an
eye
out.
For
that.
I
also
want
to
highlight
give
anybody
else
a
chance
to
speak
up
or
ask
any
questions.
That
aoc
has
informed
me
that
those
show
cost
dockets
did
resume.
On
july
1st.
A
A
J
Thank
you
so
much
for
this
presentation.
I'm
looking
at
slide
number
eight,
where
it
shows
the
significant
variance
and
how
much
counties
spend
on
jails,
and
it
says
that
the
percent
of
county
funds
at
the
bottom.
What
do
you
mean
by
county
funds?
Do
you
mean
like
the
jail
funds
or
the
fiscal
court
funds
from
the
county.
G
So
that
number
represents
fiscal
court
funds,
so
it
represents
everything
that
the
county's
reported
to
the
department
of
local
government.
J
Do
you
have
a
bigger
breakdown
of
that,
because
I'm
looking
I
represent
in
the
18th
district,
grayson
county
and
part
of
hardin
county
in
grayson
county?
We
have
a
jail
that
is
self-sufficient
on
its
funding,
one
of
the
only
ones
in
the
state,
but
it
you
know
it
just
kind
of
it
seems
confusing
with
the
the
map
because
it
doesn't
receive
the
fiscal
court
funds
it's
sufficient
on
its
own
jail
funds.
J
G
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I'm
here
via
zoom,
I've
got
a
question.
I
guess
it's
one
a
and
one
b,
and
that
is,
we
have
a
really
wonderful
opportunity
to
do
some
testing
with
the
recent
mass
releases
of
people
due
to
covet,
and
so
I'd
like
to
know,
and
I've
asked
aoc
this
information.
F
I
think
they're
gathering
some
of
it,
but
I'd
like
to
know
how
we
can
best
use
that
incident
or
that
situation
to
study
whether
a
mass
release
is
more
dangerous
to
the
community
or
whether
it
helps
at
this
point
saying,
there's
been
no
recidivism,
probably
isn't
very
helpful
because
they've
not
been
all
the
way
through
the
system.
So
I'd
like
to
get
arrest,
numbers
and
so
forth
and
also,
I
know
we're
saving
a
lot
of
money.
F
We're
looking
at
my
macro
level
on
these
on
these
on
these
costs
of
jails,
and
if
we
release
x
amount
of
people
will
save
all
this
kind
of
money.
What
I'd
like
to
know
is-
and
I
don't
I'm
not
maybe
looking
for
names,
but
if
we
drill
in
we've
talked
a
lot
about
fulton
county,
what
individual
prisoners
or
inmates
are
in
fulton
county
jail
that
shouldn't
be
there.
F
F
That's
moving
the
ball
forward,
so
two
things
one:
how
do
we
best
use
the
situation
of
covid
to
learn
from
and
to
figure
out
to
make
the
point
if
it's
true
that
a
mass
release
does
not
harm
public
safety
number
one
and
number
two
rather
than
these
counties
save
all
this
money
stuff,
which
is
great
data.
That's
not
convincing
anybody!
What
individuals
are
in
jail?
That
ought
not
be.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,.
H
And
thank
you,
representative
nemes.
I
think
you
always
come
with
the
hardest
questions,
but
often
some
very
good
ones.
You
know,
I
think,
there's
there
are
several
factors
to
look
at
with
regard
to
what
happened
during
covet
and
what
was
the
public
safety
outcome,
certainly
for
people
who
were
released
via
conditional
commutation
from
prison
people
who
had
been
sentenced.
Looking
at
things
like
re-arrest,
or
you
know,
the
the
often
cited
figure
of
recidivism.
H
I
think
the
other
sort
of
important
look
right
on
the
front
end.
We
know
that
even
more
than
releases
from
jail,
the
reduction
in
bookings
drove
the
decrease
in
the
jail
population.
That
was
the
the
bigger
driver
actually
than
pre-trial
release
or
alternatives
to
incarceration
for
people
who
are
serving.
H
You
know:
shorter
misdemeanor
sentences,
for
example,
so
so
looking,
I
think,
at
the
collateral
consequences,
also
of
people
who
are
booked
on
the
kinds
of
offenses
that
weren't
being
booked
during
the
pandemic
and
saying
what
is
the
outcome
of
sort
of
returning
to
business
as
usual
is
important
and
then,
of
course,
I'd
be
remiss.
If
I
didn't
say
the
other.
You
know
important.
Pretrial
indicators
are
for
people
who
are
released.
What
is
their
appearance
rate?
Who
is
coming
to
court?
What
percentage
of
people
in
facing
what
charges
and
where
are
their
rearrests?
H
A
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
in
this
piggybacks
a
little
bit
on
some
points
made
by
representative
nemus.
You
know,
obviously
I
think,
as
a
society,
we
want
less
people
jailed,
but
you
know
there's
also
a
question.
I
think
it's
legislators
as
to
who
bears
the
cost
for
bad
behavior.
B
You
know
I'm
getting
a
lot
of
complaints
from
from
counties
that
I
guess
that
you
know
the
the
incarceration
cost
as
we
move
down
into
missed.
More
and
more
misdemeanors
is
being
disproportionately
borne
by
the
counties
and
and
also
that
you
know
a
lot
of
their
complaints
are
that
it
occurs
in
municipalities
and
that
you
know
the
cities
bear
no
cost
for
incarcerations
whatsoever
and,
as
we,
you
know,
decrease
the
level
of
some
of
these
felonies,
which
frankly,
I
think
is
a
good
idea.
B
Considering
some
of
the
problems,
it
creates
people
getting
jobs
and
things
like
that
is
there
a
you
know
something
you
all
might
propose
to
to.
I
hate
to
use
the
term
equity
since
it's
bantered
around
in
such
negative
content
contexts
nowadays,
but
more
equitable
ways
to
spread
out
the
costs
of
of
jailing
inmates.
B
H
Thank
you,
senator
wheeler,
it's
an
excellent
question
and
I
know
has
been
top
of
mind
for
many
counties
with
the
change
to
the
felony
theft
threshold,
for
example,
which
we
supported.
I
think
one
of
the
clearest
ways
to
think
about
reducing
the
cost
of
incarceration
to
counties
for
things
like
misdemeanor
convictions
is
first
looking
at
the
cost
of
to
the
counties
for
people
who
are
detained
pre-trial
again.
H
You
know
putting
a
limit
on
the
amount
of
time
and
even
who
can
be
subject
to
pre-trial
detention,
while
they're
unconvicted
will
generate
cost
savings
that
are
sort
of
prior
to
that
conviction
and
they're
being
housed
in
jail.
Another
very
clear
opportunity,
I
think,
is
thinking
about
non-custodial
sanctions
for
people
who
are
convicted
of
misdemeanor
offenses.
H
So
are
there
sort
of
less
serious
misdemeanors
that
people
are
serving
time
in
jail
for
where
they
could
be
serving
time
in
the
community
held
accountable
in
another
way
or,
for
example,
earning
good
time
credits
while
they're
in
jail
again
thinking
both
about
who
comes
in
and
how
long
they're,
staying
and
taking
some
of
the
principles
that
have
been
applied
to
probation
or
parole,
for
example,
and
also
to
felony
sentences
and
shifting
them
to
a
county
level,
sort
of
framework
or
analysis.
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
I'll,
try
to
be
brief
and
we're
all
supportive
and
trying
to
reduce
this
cost
for
the
state
and
for
our
local
communities.
Obviously,
and
one
of
the
things
that
you
all
have
looked
at
is
is
during
this
pandemic
time,
the
cost
has
been
saved
and
we
know
that
people's
been
released,
there's
been
different
things
that
you've
looked
at.
E
So
I
just
don't
want
us
to
get
a
false
sense
of
feel
good,
that
everything's
worked.
Crimes
are
still
being
committed
out
there
during
this
time
period.
It's
just
they're
either
not
being
charged
or
they
are
not
being
reported,
because
so
many
people
is
basically
hibernated
during
this
whole
time
period
and
as
much
as
we
all
want
to
reduce
costs.
E
You
know
we
we
have
to
remember:
our
jails
are
the
way
they
are
because
people's
committing
crimes
and
we
either
gotta,
stop
people
from
committing
crimes
or
we've
got
to
do
away
with
what
is
a
crime,
and
we
don't
want
to
do
away
with
what
is
a
crime
and
everybody's
all
for
that,
unless
you've
ever
been
a
victim
of
a
crime
and
then
you'll
realize
the
importance
of
it.
E
A
Jasmine
bay,
chris,
thank
you
all.
I
appreciate
it
we're
going
to
move
on
to
the
next
presentation,
but
I
appreciate
your
all's
time
and
your
report
I'll
remind
members
that
their
presentation
is
on
lrc's
website
under
the
meeting
materials
for
today's
meeting
on
the
interim
judiciary
committee
site,
so
you
can
find
it
easily
enough
right
there.
Thank
you,
ladies.
A
K
K
I
have
with
me
today:
krista
nevada,
gwen.
They
are
parents
of
christian
gwen
who
was
the
final
homicide
of
2019
in
the
city
of
louisville.
He
was
murdered
just
before
christmas
of
that
year,
you'll
hear
from
them
later
and
unfortunately
that
violent
crime
has
continued
to
plague
their
lives.
I
have
also
with
me
christopher
2x.
He
is
the
executive
director
of
christopher
2x
game
changers,
an
anti-violence
non-profit
in
louisville.
He
also
works
very
closely
with
the
university
of
louisville
medical
team,
their
trauma
team
in
particular.
K
K
K
Fortunately,
most
of
us
will
never
have
to
deal
with
the
pain
of
burying
a
loved
one
whose
life
was
taken
from
us
for
far
too
many
people
in
louisville
and
for
a
growing
number
of
families
in
louisville.
This
is
their
reality
for
much
of
louisville's
history.
It
was
a
city
that
averaged
about
50
homicides
a
year,
in
fact
from
1990
to
2014
louisville
averaged
just
over
54
homicides
a
year.
K
Now,
every
one
of
those
homicides
was
tragic.
That
was
a
friend
a
loved
one,
a
neighbor,
a
colleague
a
fellow
church-goer,
but
in
2015
things
changed
for
the
first
time.
In
25
years,
louisville
eclipsed
80
homicides.
We
had
81
that
year
the
following
year
we
broke
our
then
all-time
record
with
117
following
year,
102
then
80
again
then
90.
K
K
Nearly
double
the
25
year
average
prior
as
a
point
of
reference
in
2020,
the
city
of
chicago
generally
thought
of
as
a
reasonably
dangerous
place
averaged
28.55
homicides
per
hundred
thousand
residents,
the
city
of
louisville
averaged
28.01
homicides,
a
nearly
identical
rate
so
far
in
2021,
the
city
of
chicago
averaged
11.73
homicides
per
hundred
thousand
residents.
That's
a
slight
increase
from
that
point.
Last
year
the
city
of
louisville
16.20
homicides
per
hundred
thousand
residents,
that's
a
significant
increase
from
last
year
and
a
38
higher
rate
than
the
city
of
chicago.
K
K
I
have
the
distinct
privilege
and
blessing
of
having
a
three-month-old
daughter
at
home
she's,
our
first
I
get
to
wake
up
every
day
to
a
smiling
face.
I
get
to
wake
up
several
times
at
night
to
a
less
than
smiling
face,
but
tyrese
garvin
doesn't
get
to
do
that
on
june
23
of
2019
after
meeting
his
brand
new
twin
children,
a
boy
and
a
girl,
he
was
walking
home
from
uofl
hospital
when
he
was
gunned
down.
K
He
ran
into
a
group
who
thought
they
knew
better
than
he
did
whether
he
got
to
continue
to
live
now.
Tyrese
spent
five
days
in
the
icu
of
the
same
hospital
that
his
newborn
twins
were
getting
stronger
in
before.
Ultimately,
he
was
taken
off
life
support.
He
will
never
get
to
wake
up
to
a
smiling
face.
Those
children
will
never
get
to
ask
their
father
for
advice.
K
That
is
the
reality
of
homicide
and
violent
crime
in
the
city
of
louisville.
It's
always
been
a
tragedy.
Those
54
homicides
a
year
were
54
too
many,
but
we
are
at
a
more
exigent
place
today
than
we
were
just
six
years
ago,
and
so
I'd
like
for
you
all
to
now
hear
from
christa
and
nevada
gwen,
who
have
been
impacted
by
this
personally.
L
I'm
krista
glenn.
This
is
my
husband,
nevada,
gwen,
and
we
are
the
parents
of
christian
gwen
who
was
gunned
down.
12
19
2019.
Excuse
me,
my
son
was
19
years
old.
He
had
just
turned
19
thanksgiving
day
my
son
was
walking
down
43rd
market
coming
from
a
restaurant
called
indy's.
With
his
friend,
my
son,
reached
the
corner
of
43rd
street,
a
car
proceeded
to
pull
up
beside
him
rolled
the
window
down
and
gunned.
My
son
down
my
son,
never
woke
up.
L
L
L
Why?
Why
the
city
of
louisville?
Why
did
gun
violence?
Take
my
son
away
to
turn
not
to
just
talk
about
that
this
year,
6
7,
20
21,
my
daughter,
was
in
a
park
with
another
friend
who
was
here
with
us
today.
The
young
lady
with
the
crutches
is
my
daughter.
She
was
gunned
down
her
and
her
friend
who
lost
his
life
to
his
wounds.
He
was
shot
in
the
head.
My
daughter
was
shot
in
the
knee.
She
has
a
ride
in
her
leg
that
she
will
have
for
the
rest
of
her
life.
L
They
picked
up
the
guy
that
killed.
My
son
allegedly
killed
my
son,
I'm
still
waiting
to
go
to
court.
When
is
these
people
going
to
be
held
accountable
for
killing
our
kids?
My
13
year
old
is
back
behind
me
also.
I
want
to
see
her
get
past
19.,
my
child
don't
go
outside
and
play
no
more.
My
19
year
old,
her
friends
have
to
come
stay
with
us
because
she
don't
want
to
go
nowhere.
L
When
is
the
city
of
louisville
going
to
make
it
safe
for
my
kids
to
grow
up
these
children
want
to
grow
up
and
have
a
life.
My
13
13-year-old
want
to
go
to
the
park.
I
live
so
close
to
the
park.
I
can
see
birds
chirping,
my
daughter,
don't
want
to
go
there.
Why?
Because
this
city
is
violent,
daytime
nighttime,
western
east
and
south,
and
it
doesn't
matter
anymore
what
part
of
the
city
we
live
in?
L
L
Where's
our
help
where's
the
solution
that
please
help
us
find
some
way
to
get
the
guns
off
the
street
to
make
these
people
accountable.
I
gotta
arrest
16
months
later,
make
him
accountable
for
killing
my
son.
He
shouldn't
even
have
been
out
on
the
street.
His
record
was
so
bad.
He
had
just
got
out
a
couple
months
before
he
killed
my
son
on
heinous
crimes.
L
L
M
M
Appreciate
the
opportunity
everybody
so
I'm
I'm
gonna
kind
of
give
a
little
bit
more
understanding
to
the
gwen's
other
pain
that
you
are
not
familiar
with
and
crystal
really
didn't
explain.
M
M
What
christa
and
nevada
didn't
tell
you
guys,
josh
didn't
tell
you
guys
is
they
have
a
daughter,
that's
19
years
old,
who
I'm
working
with
in
the
back?
He
was
on
crutches
who
just
graduated
from
high
school,
undercover
and
proud
to
do
so.
Working
a
job
was
in
a
park.
Several
several
weeks
ago,
individuals
came
through
that
park,
targeting
somebody
and
shot
over
200
rounds
and
she
got
hit
by
one
of
them
shattered
her
leg.
M
M
What
I
want
to
quickly
say
before
we
turn
it
over
to
mr
coleman.
Is
there
is
a
situation
in
the
city
of
louisville.
That's
been
going
on
for
far
too
long
that
we
title
in
our
organization.
The
secondary
trial,
especially
with
kids
and
we
categorize
that
in
an
a
and
b
category
the
a
category
is,
is
where
kids
live
in
dwellings
and
houses
and
in
spaces
where
bullets
come
flying,
past
them
and
hit.
But
they
don't
hit
the
kid,
but
that's,
very
traumatic.
M
The
b
category
is
kids,
who
would
constantly
hear
gunfire
in
neighborhoods
in
metro
louie,
where
they're
going
through
drills
like
disaster
drills,
now
tornado
fire,
whatever
get
under
the
bed
get
out
of
the
window
and
that
secondary
trauma
is
real
and
that
secondary
trauma
is
so
real
that
our
organization,
along
with
uofl
health,
with
their
medical
students,
trauma,
surgeons
and
other
staff
members
have
created
a
piece
which
is
called
future
healers.
Where
we're
starting
to
bring
these
conversations,
and
we
shouldn't
be.
M
But
we
are
bringing
these
conversations
as
a
public
health
crisis
conversation
to
kids
in
early
childhood
development
through
k
through
eight,
that's
now
to
stop
to
bleed
program.
M
But
it's
about
getting
in
the
right
spaces.
Now
about
this
conversation,
where
I
believe
for
at
least
15
to
20
years,
and
I've
been
in
this
work
for
20
years.
Now
that
we're
behind
the
eight
ball,
because
we
didn't
have
these
conversations
early
on,
I
truly
believe
when
somebody
is
involved
in
reckless
shootings
as
it
relates
to
neighborhood
shootings.
It
didn't
evolve
when
they
got
into
high
school.
They
started
that
evolution
process
at
a
very
young
age
that
went
unchecked,
whether
it's
mental
health
issues
and
other
things
going
on.
M
But
at
the
end
of
the
day
the
numbers
are
what
they
are
and
they're
impacting
children
in
great
numbers,
and
especially
the
traumatic
experience
and
I'll
wrap
up.
Lastly,
with
how
many
families
in
metro
louisville
are
getting
displaced
by
gunfire,
think
about
it,
fires
displace
families
in
metro
louisville.
This
is
real.
We
have
families
who
either
get
displaced
by
gunfire
or
try
to
hunker
down
and
then
are
re-traumatized
back,
and
nobody
has
to
tell
me
anything
about
the
families
that,
at
their
requests,
have
been
in
their
lives.
M
M
They
were
in
there
with
their
mother.
Who
is
her
early
childhood
development
teacher,
looking
at
a
tv
monitor
with
a
learning
game
and
around
three
o'clock
that
day,
whoever
was
shooting
at
the
target?
Missed
the
target,
hit
three
town
houses
and
if
it
wasn't
for
her
training
and
pulling
them
out
of
harm's
way
under
the
bed,
I
don't
know
if
they
could
have
been
a
casualty
or
a
person,
this
woman,
but
it's
a
deep
problem.
M
It's
the
issue,
I'm
not
into
the
blame
game
conversation,
but
I
do
know
one
thing
that
if
we
put
the
effort
towards
covet
like
we
have
rightfully
so,
we've
got
to
understand
that
children,
even
if
we
want
to
don't
want
to
look
at
the
grown-ups
involved
in
these
activities.
Children
are
being
really
hurt
and
traumatized
at
a
capacity.
That's
really
unacceptable
and
I'll
turn
it
over
to
mr
cohn.
N
Courage
is
the
gwen
family
and
courage
is
victoria
gwynne,
who
shows
up
here
just
weeks
after
taking
a
223
round
in
her
leg
with
the
young
man,
the
18
year
old,
standing
next
to
her,
it's
six
o'clock
at
night
in
a
city
park
lost
his
life,
that's
courage,
mr
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee.
It's
a
it's
an
honor
to
sit
by
these
folks
for
a
few
minutes.
N
Failure
is
what
it
feels
like
when
you
have
173
homicides
and
567
non-fatal
shootings,
which
was
last
year
in
louisville,
and
when
you
serve
in
roles
like
the
one
I
was
privileged
to
serve
as
united
states
attorney
or
you
wear
the
blue
or
the
paducah
police
department
or
the
gray,
the
kentucky
state
police.
It
feels
like
failure
when
you
have
numbers
like
that,
because
we
have
a
responsibility
to
mitigate
those
numbers.
N
N
At
the
end
of
2019,
I
stood
at
a
podium,
much
like
where
you
are,
mr
chairman,
with
flags
behind
me:
the
flag,
the
department
of
justice,
the
flag
of
the
fbi
and
the
atf,
and
I
was
joined
by
leadership
of
federal
law
enforcement.
I
was
joined
by
our
commonwealth's
attorney
and
our
county
attorney
and
we
were
celebrating.
N
We
were
celebrating
the
fact
that
at
the
end
of
2019
we
increased
federal
firearms
prosecutions,
almost
70
percent,
and
that
was
a
significant
accomplishment,
not
just
for
numerical
purposes,
but
we
were
taking
the
shooters
off
the
street
over
the
last
two
years,
70
percent
bureaucratically.
We
were
shaking
that
tree
to
have
an
impact.
When
I
became
united
states
attorney
my
direction
from
the
attorney
general,
the
president
was
to
reduce
violent
crime
and
the
tool
I
had
in
my
tool
kit
was
go
after
the
shooters,
so
we
shook
that
tree
and
we
stood
at
a
podium.
N
So
what
do
you
do?
Well,
one
we're
humble
enough
to
recognize
that
we
are
failing
and
when
we
carry
the
burden
of
these
leadership
roles,
we
need
to
own
this
and,
as
united
states
attorney,
I
looked
around.
You
see
the
numbers,
you
see
what
we
were
attempting
to
do
and
I
looked
elsewhere
for
what
might
have
been
working
in
places
other
than
louisville,
and
so
I
reached
out
to
a
colleague
of
mine
who
sits
to
my
left
pegasus
institute
and
reached
out
to
the
john
jay
college
of
criminal
justice
in
manhattan.
N
These
are
these
are
centers
of
data
and
learning
we
we
tend,
especially
in
louisville,
but
we
do
this
in
the
commonwealth,
not
adopting
best
practices
that
are
working
elsewhere.
We've
got
this
right.
We
know
louisville
better.
I
know
the
western
district
better.
We
there's
there's
sometimes
a
lack
of
humility,
but
you
look
at
our
failure
and
we
have
to
have
to
be
humble.
So
looking
at
what
has
worked
elsewhere,
I
commend
this
book
to
every
member
of
the
committee.
N
It's
called
don't
shoot
it's
by
david
kennedy
for
the
last
30
years
and
I
I
was
a
fed.
I've
been
a
fed
for
almost
20
years,
so
I'll
not
leave
this
committee
without
giving
you
an
acronym,
gvi
group,
violence
intervention.
It's
an
effort
almost
30
years
ago
in
boston
that
reduced
homicides
by
over
50
percent.
N
They
it
was
john
jay
and
david
kennedy
who
wrote
this
book.
They
attempted
something
different.
They
essentially
backed
into
the
recognition
that
these
aren't
bad
neighborhoods
in
places
like
we're
talking
about
in
louisville
or
in
boston
at
the
time,
and
I've
made
the
mistake
of
saying,
they're
good
people
living
in
bad
neighborhoods.
N
There
aren't
these
aren't
bad
neighborhoods
they're,
a
very
small
number
of
very
violent
offenders
in
a
handful
of
places
and
in
my
own
nomenclature,
I've
got
this
wrong
and
I've
been
corrected
by
professor
kennedy
and
others,
and
so
what
was
implemented
in
boston
30
years
ago
has
had
an
impact
has
been
packaged
and
rolled
out
in
cities
large
and
small,
from
high
point
north
carolina
to
cincinnati
to
the
west
coast.
This
is
not
a
pilot
project.
This
is
not
some
academic
treatise.
N
This
is
a
set
of
tactics
that
work
that
reduce
violent
crime
and
pegasus
institute
has
data
for
every
member
of
the
committee.
That
gives
you
a
breakdown
of
how
impactful
this
has
been,
and
it's
also
failed,
and
that's
one
of
the
things
I
respect
about
this
effort
in
places
where
it's
failed.
The
team
has
looked
at
the
limiting
factors
re-examine
and
tried
a
different
approach.
It's
failed
when
we
haven't
approached
it
with
a
sense
of
urgency.
N
It's
failed
when
we
haven't
had
the
right
people
at
the
table
and
there's
been
international
conflict
when
folks
haven't
been
working
together
and
I'll.
Tell
you
as
dark
and
as
heavy
as
this
topic
is
from
our
commonwealth's
attorney
in
jefferson
county
to
our
county
attorney
to
the
united
states
attorney's
office,
to
federal
law
enforcement
to
the
justice
cabinet
here
in
frankfurt
to
the
business
community.
Who
is
funding
this
effort
in
louisville?
Mr
chairman,
the
business
community
is
funding
this
philanthropist,
I'm
not
here
with
an
ask
in
terms
of
resources.
N
I'm
not
here
with
an
ask
in
terms
of
statutory
changes,
I'm
here
for
you
to
know
what
we're
attempting
to
do
in
louisville,
and
I'm
asking
for
this
committee
in
this
legislature
to
assert
its
oversight
for
too
long.
With
all
due
respect
to
the
members
of
this
committee,
there's
been
an
approach
to
louisville,
as
if
your
authority
ends
at
the
border
of
metro
louisville.
N
We
need
your
oversight
to
ensure
that
this
is
implemented
correctly
in
louisville.
We
need
your
oversight
to
track
those
arp
dollars
that
we're
receiving
in
louisville
to
ensure
that
those
dollars
that
are
coming
into
metro
louisville
are
truly
having
the
impact
on
violent
crime
because
we're
getting
resources-
and
this
committee
holds
the
purse
strings
and
your
colleagues.
We
need
this
committee
to
be
engaged,
because
what
goes
on
in
louisville
doesn't
stay
in
louisville,
as
united
states
attorney.
N
I
spent
time
in
all
53
counties
of
my
district,
including
yours,
mr
chairman,
including
a
lot
of
time
in
paducah.
We
built
an
office
in
bowling
green
for
the
first
time
we
plussed
up
our
office
in
paducah,
the
largest
that
we've
ever
staffed,
that
up
and
in
conversations
from
bowling
green
to
paducah.
When
I
talked
about
the
priority
of
reducing
violent
crime
in
louisville,
I
expected
the
pushback
right
golden
triangle:
resources
going
to
louisville
and
what
I
received
sometimes
from
folks
like
tommy,
loving
who's,
testified
in
front
of
this
committee.
N
No
shrinking
violet
on
behalf
of
narcotics
officers
was
that
response,
because
louisville
as
much
as
we're
proud
of
the
thing
we
export,
we
are
exporting
violence
and
dope
to
the
rest
of
the
commonwealth.
So
many
of
your
jurisdictions-
and
I
see
representative
blanton
nodding
his
head,
so
many
of
your
jurisdictions,
particularly
in
west
kentucky
and
central
kentucky.
You
receive
your
narcotics
and
a
nexus
to
violence
out
of
louisville.
It's
not
just
bourbon,
it's
not
just
great
trucks.
We
are
exporting
violence
to
your
jurisdictions.
N
So
no
longer
can
we
say
what
goes
on
in
louisville
stays
in
louisville.
I'll
close
with
this
you've
heard
data
and
you've
seen
the
face
of
what
violent
crime
looks
like
in
louisville.
Let
me
give
you
two
other
lenses
by
which
to
look
at
this
as
a
young
fbi
agent.
Probably
the
most
significant
lesson
I
learned
at
quantico
was
one
that
involved
me
get
being
shot
with
with
paintball
guns
for
not
learning
it
right
the
first
time,
and
that
is
cover
and
concealment
covering
concealment.
N
The
most
significant
tactical
tools
you
learn
to
get
behind
something
to
stop
around
to
get
behind
something
you'll.
Some
of
you
will
will
recognize
the
name
de
quante
hobbs.
He
was
a
seven-year-old
little
boy
that,
on
his
the
weekend
of
his
birthday
in
the
russell
neighborhood
was
playing
at
his
kitchen
table
in
2015..
He
was
playing
on
an
ipad.
N
He
was
quite
literally
eating
birthday
cake
on
a
sunday
night
and
because
of
some
gun
play
in
the
street
and
ultimately,
we
prosecuted
the
shooter,
as
have
our
colleague
tom
wine,
because
of
some
gunway
and
gun
play
in
the
street.
This
seven-year-old
was
shot
in
the
neck
and
died
that
that
story
is
well
known,
but
what's
less
well-known
is
what
his
mother
did
when
she
heard
the
round
and
we
just
had
a
great
weekend
with
fireworks,
we're
used
to
at
least
where
I
live.
N
The
gwen
kids
sleep
in
places
in
their
house
that
are
behind
cover
and
concealment
members
of
this
committee
in
our
largest
city,
and
I
colonel
stevenson.
You
know
this.
In
your
district
and
our
largest
city,
we
have
kentuckians
who
instinctively
utilize,
cover
and
concealment
in
their
daily
lives
and
we're
okay
with
that
in
this
commonwealth.
N
Those
songs
permeate
through
your
heads.
Well,
let
me
share
with
you
an
experience
I
had
with
frozen
and
it
involved
that
a
beautiful
structure
about
the
size
of
that
dias
in
front
of
me
in
a
church
in
west
louisville,
it
was
a
frozen
coffin,
beautiful
coffin
and
in
it
was
a
three-year-old
little
girl
named
trinity.
Randolph
in
august
of
2020.
N
trinity
randolph
was
playing
in
her
play
house
in
louisville
when
she
was
murdered
at
retribution
along
with
her
father.
She
was
playing
in
her
playhouse
a
three-year-old,
and
I
stood
with
a
special
agent
in
charge
of
the
fbi
and
her
mom
in
front
of
a
disney
coffin
with
a
beautiful
little
girl
with
her
tiny
little
princess
shoes,
that's
louisville,
that's
louisville
and
as
much
as
this
is
dark-
and
this
is
heavy
and
it's
not
pollyanna.
Look
this
group
violence
intervention
project
is
not
going
to
address
educational
outcomes.
N
It's
not
going
to
address
economic
development
and
my
hat's
off
to
what
this
legislature
did
last
session.
Looking
at
the
tif
financing
of
led
by
by
president
stivers.
I'm
sorry
he's
he's
not
here,
so
I
can.
I
can
praise
that.
That's
all
positive,
we
need
those
things
but
much
like
the
emergency
room.
If
you
don't
stop
the
bleeding,
if
we
can't
get
a
handle
on
violent
crime,
then
these
economic
development
efforts
and
educational
efforts
and
job
training
efforts
will
all
fall
flat.
N
If
you
can't
walk
out
your
front
yard
or
eat
birthday
cake
at
your
kitchen
table
without
losing
your
life,
all
of
this
falls
flat.
So
what
this
does
is
gives
us
space.
It
helps
bring
the
violence
down
in
the
near
term,
so
we
can
do
these
other
things
and
positively
impact
lives.
So
there
is
an
optimistic
path
forward.
It
is
funded
by
the
business
community.
We
are
starting
to
roll
it
out
in
louisville.
It's
been
delayed
somewhat
by
covid,
but
the
ask
is
not
a
legislative
one
and
it's
not
appropriation.
One
read
this
book.
Please.
N
A
I
appreciate
that
from
all
of
you,
mr
miss
gwen.
Thank
you
both
especially
and
your
daughter,
thank
you
for
for
being
here.
That
is
courage
and
and
shows
tremendous
courage
and
resolve
to
do
something
to
make
a
change
for
the
better
in
louisville,
which
I
think
everyone
agrees
is
in
a
terrible,
terrible
state.
A
We've
got
a
few
quick
questions
from
folks
and
then
and
I
hate
to
move
things
along,
but
I
want
to
encourage
members
to
ask
your
question
promptly
and
quickly
and
swiftly
so
that
they
can
respond
accordingly.
If
you
have
comments,
please
make
them
as
short
as
possible.
I
want
to
make
sure
we
have
time
for
this
presentation
as
much
as
possible
and
the
next
senator
berg.
C
Thank
you,
chairman
westerfield.
First
of
all,
I
I
really
want
to
tell
you
how
deeply
I
I
feel
for
you
and
your
family
and
and
what
what
this
situation
on
a
personal
level
is.
I
am,
I
appreciate
you
bringing
this
to
the
state
house
because
for
me
personally,
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
most
important
things
we
need
to
talk
about.
C
I
am
a
physician,
a
semi-retired,
but
I
work
in
the
er
at
university
of
louisville
hospital.
It
started
actually
the
department
of
emergency
radiology
30
plus
years
ago,
and
and
back
then
trauma
was
blunt
trauma.
You
know
car
accidents,
people
falling
off
of
roofs
occasional,
you
know
get
hurt
at
work,
type
things
we
are
now.
I
personally
count
and
and
the
number
of
gunshot
wounds
that
I
see
every
day
when
I
walk
into
the
hospital
it
used
to
be.
C
We
averaged
one
a
day
and
I
promise
you
we're
at
at
least
an
average
of
three
a
day
and
remember
I
see
the
ones
that
aren't
dead
on
the
street.
I
only
see
the
ones
that
live
long
enough
to
get
to
the
hospital.
This
is
a
a
crisis.
This
is
an
emotional
and
social
crisis.
This
is
an
economic
crisis.
The
cost
of
this
gun
violence
is
amazing,
and
one
of
the
things
that
I
see
and
I'm
seeing
more
and
more
and
more
is
we
have
children
shooting
children.
C
C
I
mean
it
is
like,
and
I've
asked-
and
I
ask-
and
I
ask
how
do
these
children
get
these
guns?
It
is
illegal
for
them
to
have
this
gun.
Where
did
it
come
from
how
it
is?
Is
it
in
their
hand
and
instead
of
like
a
pillow
fight
where
they
used
to
throw
pillows
at
each
other
they're,
now
literally
picking
up
a
gun
and
shooting
each
other,
and
this
is
happening.
C
This
is
real
and
I
have
asked
there
has
never
once
to
my
knowledge,
been
a
prosecution
in
this
state
against
an
adult
for
allowing
a
minor
child
to
have
access
to
a
gun.
We
have
laws,
the
laws
are
on
the
books.
I
want
to
know
guys,
why
aren't
we
using
them?
Why
are
we
allowing
our
children
to
walk
around
with
guns
and
not
doing
anything
about
it?
A
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
wins
thank
you
all
for
being
here
and
I
I
sorry
for
the
struggle
that
you're
going
through
I'm
sorry
for
your
loss
and
I
caught
myself
as
you
all
were
telling
your
story
sitting
here.
Gritting
my
teeth
becoming
very
angry
law
enforcement
officers
are
willing
to
risk
their
lives
every
day
to
prevent
things
like
is
what
has
happened
to
your
family
and
law
enforcement
officers
in
today's
world
are
attacked
on
a
daily
basis.
Physically
verbally
they
are
baited.
D
D
We
spend
a
lot
of
time
in
this
legislature
figuring
out
how
to
get
people
out
of
jail,
how
to
avoid
them
having
to
pay
fines,
how
to
avoid
them
being
held
accountable
for
their
actions
every
year.
It
goes
to
a
new
level
in
this
legislature,
and
while
we
do
that,
we
fail
to
hear
from
the
victims
of
these
crimes.
D
L
Can
I
interrupt
you
real
quick?
Yes,
ma'am,
the
boy
just
killed
my
son.
His
crimes
was
assaulting
a
police
officer,
stealing
cars,
possession
of
a
gun
by
a
felon.
This
boy
got
out
two
months
before
he
killed
my
son.
If
he
would
have
got
the
time
to
get
the
jail
time
to
go
to
prison
instead
of
coming
out
on
probation,
he
wouldn't
have
killed
my
boy.
L
G
L
D
Ma'am,
I
I
agree
with
that
totally,
and
I
want
to
try
to
move
through
this
as
quickly
as
I
can.
But
you
know
we
are
right.
You
are
right,
we
make
blanket
policies
and
we
don't
think
about
who
all
these
policies
affect,
and
we
don't
think
about.
We've
got
in
our
mind.
We've
got
in
our
thoughts
in
the
bubble
that
we
live
in
in
frankfurt,
that
these
are
good
people
who
just
made
a
mistake.
D
Ladies
and
gentlemen,
these
are,
for
the
most
part,
the
people
that
are
in
prison.
They
are
not
good
people,
they
are
criminals
who
have
violated
their
fellow
citizens,
but
yet
we
victimized
criminals.
Today
in
our
society,
we
have
forgotten
about
personal
accountability,
for
any
actions
and
as
a
result,
we
got
things
like
what
is
happening
in
louisville
today,
families
that
should
not
have
to
live
in
the
conditions
that
your
family
lives
in
and
all
the
others
that
live
in
the
western
part
of
louisville.
D
That
is
unacceptable
in
this
commonwealth,
but
instead
of
focusing
on
those
issues,
our
public
is
attacking
our
police
officers.
Our
governmental
bodies
are
victimizing
criminals
and
people
are
dying
because
of
that.
We
are
you're
right,
we
are
failing.
We
are
headed
in
the
wrong
direction.
We
need
to
be
protecting
our
people
rather
than
trying
to
protect
the
criminals,
letting
criminals
out
because
of
covid
some
drug
dealers,
just
as
responsible
for
taking
lives,
is
going
and
shooting
a
kid
in
the
head
every
bit
as
responsible
those
who
traffic
in
narcotics.
D
D
D
D
That's
where
it's
got
to
come
from
those
who
are
out
on
the
streets
every
day.
If
there's
going
to
be
a
culture
change
within
that
agency,
that's
where
it's
got
to
come
from,
and
there
are
men
and
women
wearing
that
louisville
metro
badge,
as
I
said
that
today
will
go
in
and
risk
their
life
to
save
any
child
in
the
west
end
of
louisville.
But
it's
got
to
be
a
two-way
street.
D
The
people
have
got
to
open
their
arms
and
embrace
the
very
people
that
they
hate
today
and
until
that
happens,
until
there
is
a
partnership
until
there
is
a
coming
together
and
until
there
is
some
trust
built
between
those
two
parties,
it's
not
going
to
get
any
better.
Who
else
is
going
to
do
it?
If
it's
not
law
enforcement
who's
going
to
do
it,
but
they
have
to
have
the
community's
support.
D
D
D
And
mr
chairman
I'll
I'll
stop
there,
but
I
it's
just
a
lot
of
frustration
over
recent
years
built
up
over
this,
and
I
I
guess
this
just
kind
of
brings
it
to
to
ahead.
You
all
shouldn't
be
going
through
what
you're
doing
what
you're
going
through
today
kids
shouldn't
be,
have
to
be
sleeping
in
tubs
to
avoid
being
shot
in
in
kentucky.
This
is
our
state.
D
Let's
stop
attacking
the
very
people
who
risk
their
lives
to
protect
us.
Let's
help
them.
Let's
give
them
the
opportunity
to
change
their
culture,
to
do
better
for
our
commonwealth
to
do
better
in
the
city
of
louisville
and
you're,
going
to
see
change,
you're
going
to
see
those
numbers
come
back
down.
You
can't
defund
the
police
criticize
their
every
moment
every
movement,
every
action
and
expect
a
crime
rate
to
go
down.
It's
going
to
go
up
because
there
is
no
respect
for
officers
and
those
who
would
abuse
them.
D
Those
who
would
take
advantage
are
going
to
do
that,
they're
going
to
bait
them
in
at
every
opportunity
they
get
and
the
whole
system
falls
apart,
and
those
men
and
women
in
that
uniform
99
of
them
want
nothing
more
than
to
protect
and
serve
your
family
and
every
other
member
in
that
community,
and
in
that
entire
city,
that's
all
they
want.
It's
got
to
be
a
partnership,
that's
what
we
have
to
move
towards.
N
Mr
chairman
and
members
of
committee
you're,
you
are
bringing
this
back
senator
carroll
to
why
we're
sitting
here
other
than
highlighting
how
bad
it
is.
We
do
need
a
reset
in
louisville
on
a
number
of
fronts.
When
I'm
talking
about
group
violence,
intervention
that
that's
I'm
again,
not
pollyanna
enough
to
say
that's
the
total
reset,
but
it
is
a
brick
towards
building
a
bridge
where
there
is
a
great
chasm
between
many
of
these
communities
that
are
most
significantly
impacted
by
violent
crime
and
law
enforcement.
N
It
is,
it
is
a
brick
and
I
would
encourage
you.
This
is
something
that's
been
taught
at
the
southern
police
institute
for
years.
This
isn't
this
isn't
new,
but
I
would
encourage
the
committee
to
learn
about
this
process
and
ensure
that
it's
implemented
the
right
way
in
louisville.
I
would
also
encourage
we
have
new
leadership
of
lmpd.
N
N
It
is
either
a
part
of
this
commonwealth
or
it
isn't.
It
is
an
economic
driver,
but
we
also
need
this
committee
to
be
engaged
in
your
oversight
function
in
louisville
to
ensure
that
your
dollars
are
being
spent
the
right
way
towards
tackling
violent
crime.
This
police
department
isn't
louisville's
police
department.
N
They
take
the
same
oath
as
other
officers
across
this
commonwealth.
We
need
this
this
legislature
to
be
engaged
in
paying
attention
to
what's
going
on.
Senator
your
passion
is
fantastic
and
palpable.
We
need
that
from
this
committee
and
your
colleagues
in
louisville-
it's
not
the
commonwealth
119
in
one
county
over
here,
but
we've
treated
it
that
way
because
of
rd
distinctions
because
of
the
significant
urban
rural
chasm
we
have
in
this
commonwealth.
Well
we're
reaping
what
we
we
we've
re.
E
E
Senator
carroll
has
done
a
wonderful
job
and
I
promise
to
hold
my
my
emotions
today,
because
there's
senator
carroll
myself
on
this
committee
and
there's
others
in
this
room.
We've
spent
a
lifetime
that
we
will
bear
scars
for
the
remainder
of
our
life,
trying
to
protect
the
citizens
of
this
commonwealth,
and
that
includes
in
the
city
of
louisville
and
with
senator
carroll
myself.
We
came
here
to
continue
that
fight.
E
We've
been
called
everything
unimaginable
sitting
at
the
table,
you're
sitting
at
because
we
try
to
do
things
to
protect
you
and
your
family
and
others,
and
we
get
ridiculed
over
it.
Standing
up
for
law
enforcement
because
that's
a
popular
trend
today
make
us
the
bad
guys
victimize
the
criminals
we
all
of
a
sudden
instead
of
calling
criminals
what
they
are.
We
want
to
call
them
fathers
and
brothers
and
sons.
Well,
they
are
all
those
things
but
they're,
also
criminals,
but
your
son
was
a
son
as
well.
E
Your
daughter
is
your
daughter
as
well,
and
you
deserve
the
rights
and
the
protection
that
these
men
sitting
in
the
back,
provide
you
each
and
every
day,
the
very
ones
that
criticize
us
they
lay
and
sleep
under
the
very
protection
of
the
men
and
women
they
criticize
and
it's
time
that
the
good
people
of
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky
quit
pandering
to
those
that
are
the
loudest,
those
that
have
got
politicians
siding
with
them
because
they
got
more
social
media
presence
and
stand
with
the
good,
honest
people.
Mr
coleman
you're
right.
E
It's
not
bad
neighborhoods,
it's
bad
individuals!
We
want
more
gun
control,
go
to
chicago,
go
to
los
angeles.
They've
got
the
stringent,
most
stringent
gun
control
laws
in
the
country.
It's
not
a
gun
problem,
it's
a
people
problem
and
every
time
we
try
to
address
it.
I
will
reflect
back
three
years
ago,
when
we
addressed
a
gang
bill,
we
got
called
everything
under
the
sun
because
we
were
trying
to
address
gang
problems
in
this
commonwealth
for
doing
our
job.
E
Well,
let
me
tell
you
something:
I
believe
good
does
win
in
the
end
and
we
will
stand.
We
will
fight.
I
don't
care
what
you
call
me.
You
could
try
to
cancel
me,
but
I'm
a
trooper
and
I'm
going
to
stand
with
you,
mr
mrs
quinn,
and
I'm
going
to
fight
for
you
in
this
legislature.
I
may
no
longer
carry
that
gun
in
my
that
badge,
but
I'm
here
to
make
a
difference
for
you,
your
children
and
your
hope
to
be
grandchildren
that
that
daughter
will
provide
you
back
there
someday.
E
E
Well
either
they
want
us
or
they
don't
want
us,
but
right
now
there's
a
problem
and
it's
a
serious
problem
and
if
somebody
else
isn't
going
to
take
the
bulls
by
the
horn,
then
it's
time
that
the
general
assembly
stand
up,
take
the
bull
by
the
horn.
Let's
make
this
a
safer
community,
not
just
in
pikeville
and
paducah,
but
in
louisville
and
lexington,
and
all
points
in
between,
and
it
starts
with
these
men
sitting
back
here
in
the
back.
E
It
starts
with
honoring
the
job
they
do,
the
very
men
whose
protection
you
sleep
under
at
night,
honor
them,
instead
of
criticizing
them,
talk
about
defunding
them.
How
about
we
defund
some
of
these
programs?
That's
given
to
the
criminals
and
let's
put
more
funding
behind
our
law
enforcement,
so
we
can
hire
more
and
put
them
out
there
to
protect
our
citizens
of
this
commonwealth.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
E
A
O
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
the
passion
from
the
gentleman.
I
love
police
officers,
I'm
on
record
saying
when
I
call
one
I
want
one
to
come
with
a
gun
and
I
also
appreciate
your
loss
and
you've
been
here,
but
you've
got
to
look
at
this
whole
thing.
There
are
things
that
are
happening
that
we
are
not
addressing.
O
O
O
O
So
the
question
I
have
is
this
report
that
says:
louisville
is
the
epicenter
of
crime
and
drugs
and
violence
for
the
whole
state.
I'd
like
to
see
it.
I
want
to
see
what
that
data
is
where
we
keep
using
these
broad
strokes
to
paint
louisville
as
bad
and
somebody
needs
to
come
in
and
do
something
I
want
to
see
it.
And
then
I
want
us
to
talk,
sit
down
and
talk
about
what
really
needs
to
happen.
O
K
Representative
stevenson,
if
I
could
just
address
that
very
briefly
to
your
point,
yep
to
your
point
representative
stevenson,
it
is
a
remarkably
small
number
of
individuals
that
are
responsible
for
the
overwhelming
majority
of
this
violence.
K
It's
true
in
louisville,
it's
true
in
cities
all
across
the
country
that
less
than
one
percent
of
individuals
is
responsible
for
more
than
50
percent
of
your
violence,
and
that's
what
this
gvi
model
recognizes.
It
recognizes
that
what
is
sometimes
referred
to
as
occupation-style
policing
taken
holding
ground
doesn't
work
the
way
you
want
it
to,
because
those
who
are
perpetuating
your
violence
know
that
that's
unsustainable,
the
resources
don't
exist
to
keep
that
up,
and
so
they
go
inside
and
they
wait
it
out.
K
Gvi,
by
contrast,
recognizes
that
small
number
of
individuals
and
hyper
targets,
those
individuals
for
both
enforcement
and
services.
Those
are
the
folks
most
in
need
of
our
intention
from
law
enforcement,
and
those
are
the
folks
most
in
need
of
our
attention
from
a
social
service
standpoint,
and
so
gvi
has
the
opportunity
to
not
only
help
bridge
that
gap
between
law
enforcement
and
community,
but
recognizes
some
of
what
you're
talking
about.
K
In
that
it
is
a
small
number
of
perpetrators
in
the
grand
scheme
of
things
louisville's,
a
city
of
650,
000
people
plus
you're,
talking
about
hundreds
of
people
that
are
committing
these
acts,
not
even
thousands
of
people
who
are
committing
these
acts.
And
if
we
focus
on
those
individuals
in
a
targeted
and
precise
way,
we
can
reduce
violence
by
40,
50
60
in
our
city,
and
do
it
so
that
that
folks,
like
the
gwen's,
don't
have
to
be
here
in
the
future.
O
D
L
A
I
appreciate
you
all
bringing
yourselves
to
us
today
and
talking
about
this
initiative.
I
know
that
there
are
philanthropists
and
business
leaders,
regardless
of
party
or
or
political
association,
folks,
that
have
come
together
from
a
diverse
set
of
backgrounds
that
are
working
to
make
changes
and
do
things
for
the
better
in
jefferson,
county
and
louisville.
A
A
Mr
coleman,
you
mentioned
senate
president
stivers
tiff
initiative,
and
I'm
glad
you
highlighted
that.
That's
just
one
of
many
examples
and
there
are
lots
of
others
that
the
legislature
has
undertaken
and
worked
on.
Sometimes
the
legislature
gets
criticized
heavily
for
interfering
or
controlling
louisville
and
and
not
letting
louisville
govern
itself
and
do
whatever
it
needs
to
do.
A
And
then
we
get
this
message
that
we
ought
to
engage
and
oversee
more.
I
think
there
I
think
there
are
things
that
we
ought
to
consider
and
do
and
talk
about
to
address
it.
A
I
wish
this
initiative
well,
I
haven't
started
reading
the
book,
but
I
appreciate
the
copy
of
it
that
you
sent
mr
crawford
that
that's
generous,
generous
and
I
plan
on
reading
that
and
looking
through
it.
A
I
appreciate
the
candor
with
which
you've
shared
this
approach
and
how
it's
been
used
in
other
places,
to
the
extent
it's
been
successful
and
where
it
hasn't
been,
and
I
think
any
approach
anything
that
we
do
anything
that
this
legislature
should
do.
We
should
be
prepared
to
recognize
where
we
win
and
where
we
screw
it
up,
and
we
can't
improve
if
we're
not
willing
to
do
that.
We
can't
make
a
difference.
A
Mr
miss
gwen.
I
wish
that
this
committee
could
do
something
more
profound
and
more
powerful.
Mr
2x,
thank
you
for
being
here
and
sharing
this
stage
with
them,
and
thank
you
for
the
work
that
you
do
it.
It
doesn't
go
unnoticed
by
the
members
of
this
committee
and
hasn't
and
it
means
a
great
deal
and
it
does
make
a
difference
and
frankly,
in
ways
that
are
more
profound
and
more
impactful
than
any
budget
appropriation,
we
could
make
or
statutory
change
we
could
enact.
A
A
I
appreciate
you,
mr
miss
gwen
victoria,
raise
your
hand
because
I
don't
know
I
couldn't
see
crutches,
and
so
I
didn't
know
which
one
had
crutches.
A
Thank
you.
I
can't
imagine.
A
I
just
can't
the
whole
time
you're
telling
your
story,
I'm
thinking
about
my
kids
and
how
I
mean
we're
growing
up
on
a
farm
in
rural
christian
county
and
it's
a
it's
a
world
apart
and
it
it
breaks
my
heart
to
think
about
about
the
environments
you
have
to
live
in
and
the
the
trauma
chris.
M
Well,
senator,
I
would
like
to
just
say
this
real
quick
about
behalf
of
victoria,
so
she's
not
choosing
to
talk
today
period,
but
she's
going
to
be
with
her
surgeons
tomorrow
at
university
hospital
and
talking
to
media,
which
is
a
rare
occasion
for
non-fatal
individuals,
wounded
to
talk
about
what
it's
like
to
be
in
recovery
and
your
world
shattered.
So
stay
tuned
for
her
story
tomorrow,.
A
A
We
always
will
and
the
door
is
always
open
for
you
for
all
of
you
with
that
members.
We
we
do
have
one
more
item
on
the
agenda,
but
because
we
are
out
of
time-
and
I
want
to
give
senator
carol
an
opportunity
to
dig
deep
into
this
and
we
had-
we
had
hoped
to
give
him
more
time
than
we
can
give
him
today.
I'm
gonna,
let
him
speak
briefly
on
that
before
we
move
on.
D
Okay,
the
the
topic
that
we
had
planned
to
to
discuss
today
came
about
a
few
weeks
ago,
when
senator
gerdler
asked
me
to
help
a
young
man
named
tyler
whitworth,
who
was
here
in
the
back
tyler,
is
from
alabama.
B
D
D
However,
when
he
started
looking
into
becoming
pop
certified,
we
discovered
that
the
regulations
as
they
were
interpreted
would
not
allow
the
reciprocity
to
apply
in
his
case,
through
conversations
between
myself
and
director
john
moberly
of
the
kentucky
law
enforcement
council
recognized.
Some
changes
need
to
be
made
in
order
to
make
the
path
for
law
enforcement
officers
from
other
states
coming
to
kentucky
easier
without
reducing
quality,
and
I
cannot
compliment
director
mobley
enough
for
for
the
action
he's
taken
and
for
his
conscientious
efforts.
D
So
when
we
get
into
this
at
whatever
meeting
it
is,
we
will
discuss
this
situation
and
other
initiatives
that
klec
has
to
bring
officers
to
our
state
quality
officers,
and
that's
that's
from
other
police
agencies
and
also
military
folks
coming
in.
So
I
I
look
forward
to
it.
It's
timely
there
there
will
be
some
changes
coming
and
I
think
it
is
very
critical
and
very
pertinent
to
the
struggles
that
we
have
in
our
commonwealth
today.
A
Thank
you,
mr
vice
chairman.
I
appreciate
that.
I'm
sorry,
we
couldn't
accommodate
that
last
presentation
for
the
folks
that
came
with
senator
carroll.
I
appreciate
your
time.
I
appreciate
your
patience
hanging
out
and
waiting.
I
apologize
that
we
can't
hit
that
today,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
you've
got
ample
time.
So
I
appreciate
you
making
the
trip
up
from
beautiful
somerset.