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A
Most
of
you,
I'm
sure
all
of
you
know
that
we've
lost
a
a
very
valuable
member,
good
friend
from
the
general
assembly,
senator
tom
buford,
passed
away
and
he'd
been
here
30
years
and
was
a
friend
to
to
most
of
us
and
someone
that
I
never
heard
ever
say
anything
bad
about
anyone,
and
just
he
was
just
a
real
pleasure
to
work
with
and
a
fine
gentleman,
and
so
at
this
time
I
would
like
to
take
a
a
brief
moment
of
silence
to
pray
for
his
family
and
and
remembers
of
him.
A
Thank
you,
as
I
said,
we're
calling
the
this
meeting
to
order.
Ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
roll
please,
and
if
you
are
of
us
out
there
and
you're,
not
you
know
you're
doing
it
virtually,
please
let
us
know
if
you're
doing
it
from
your
annex
office
or
if
you're
from
your
district
or
somewhere
else.
J
A
Okay,
yes,.
A
Okay,
no
sound
representative
fugit
is
on,
but
he
he
was
able
to
answer,
and
I
also
know
that
represented
white
told
me
that
he
was
going
to
be
checking
in.
He
was
going
to
be
on
the
call
as
well,
but
I
don't
know
if
they're
having
some
problems
there
or
not,
but
maybe
we
can
get
that
worked
out.
A
Do
we
first
probably
need
to
adopt
the
minutes,
so
is
there
a
motion
to
adopt
the
minutes
of
the
june
3rd
meeting
motion?
Second,
all
in
favor
say
aye
aye
aye
all
opposed
by
likes,
okay,
so
the
the
meaning
the
motion
to
set
the
minutes
have
been
approved.
A
Now
we
are
going
to
we
every
year,
one
of
the
first
things
that
we
have
to
do
is
we
have
to
have
a
public
hearing
and
a
presentation
on
the
home
energy
assistance
program.
That's
referred
to
as
liheap.
It's
a
brock
grant
application,
and
this
is
for
physical
federal
fiscal
year
2020.
A
We
have
some
people
that
are
going
to
test
found
that
and
we
ask
you
to
hold
your
questions
to
the
end
and
then
we'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions
and
then
once
we
do
that,
we
will
have
to
make
a
motion
to.
I
guess
adopt
that
to
approve
the
findings
of
fact
of
that
program.
So
right
now,
I
think
we
have
jason
dunn
director
who
do
okay,
jason
and
please
identify
yourself
for
the
record
and.
E
J
A
J
Okay,
well,
thank
you,
chairman
gooch,
chairman
smith
and
members
of
the
committee.
It's
it's
great
to
be
here
in
person
this
year.
I
know
it
was
a
little
rough
last
year,
so
hopefully
we'll
go
a
little
smoother
this
time,
but
I
am
here
to
talk
about
the
low
income
home
energy
assistance
program
and
our
preliminary
state
plan
for
22.
J
just
a
little
bit
about
our
organization.
We
are
in
the
chfs
department
for
community-based
services.
This
program
is
owned
by
the
division
of
family
support
they're.
Second,
to
last
there,
but
again
we
contract
most
all
of
the
administration
of
the
program
to
community
action
agencies
throughout
the
state.
J
To
date,
you
can
see
the
numbers
there
for
federal
federal
fiscal
year.
21.
76.3
million
and
anticipated
for
2022
is
51
million
and
just
a
good
reminder.
These
are
100
federally
funded.
This
is
a
100
federally
funded
program.
J
The
way
that
breaks
down
90
of
the
funds
assists
kentucky
residents
through
several
different
components
that
I'm
going
to
talk
about
here.
I
know
this
says
directly
just
a
reminder.
A
J
Know
these
payments
people
do
apply
for
them
directly,
but
the
payments
themselves
actually
go
to
utility
providers
and
and
fuel
providers
up
to
15
of
the
award
can
be
given
to
the
moved
over
to
the
weatherization
program
for
weatherization
activities.
That
we'll
talk
about
a
little
bit
later
and
up
to
10
percent
is
allowed
for
administrative
costs.
J
I'm
going
to
we're
going
to
tag
team
a
little
bit
here
on
some
of
the
issues,
some
of
the
slides
and
I
want
roger
to
talk
about
the
coven
19
responses
in
the
community
action
agencies.
E
Oh
sure
so,
kova
19
really
was
a
disrupter
from
from
all
sorts
of
things,
how
we
do
technology
and
how
we
do
service,
how
we
work
in
school
from
home
and
everything
else,
and
we
we
rapidly
realized
that
if
we're
gonna
serve
folks
and
be
safe,
we
needed
to
adopt
different
ways
of
doing
things
so
working
with
dcbs.
E
We
we
arranged
for
folks
to
be
able
to
apply
electronically
by
mail.
They
could
go
over
the
phone
over
the
fax
and
then
we
were
fortunate
that
the
hhs
had
loosened
the
rules
for
some
of
the
things
about
hipaa.
So
sometimes
we
have
to
be
very
careful
about
how
we
handle
people's
confidential
information.
E
They
allowed
us
to
use
other
things
like
even
texting
and
and-
and
you
know,
one-on-one
chat
apps.
So
we
used
all
those
things
to
try
to
reach
folks
to
try
to
help
them
get
through
the
pandemic.
E
So
we
were
fortunate
that
we
had
a
good
team
over
dcbs
that
one
wanted
us
to
innovate
and
work
with
us
and
we
worked
out
things.
We
were
able
to
serve
people.
We
were
able
to
keep
our
employees
safe,
the
clients
safe
and
make
sure
that
people's
lights
stayed
on
right.
J
In
addition
to
the
la
heap
funds,
we've
had
the
regular
live
heat
funds
that
we've
received
this
past
year.
We
also
did
receive
from
some
funds.
Through
the
cares
act,
there
was
900
million
that
was
set
aside
for
for
la
heap.
900
million
dollars
of
care's
money
that
was
set
aside
for
lahib
of
that
kentucky
was
awarded
13.7
million,
so
these
were
especially
to
you,
know,
prevent
and
respond
to
needs
created
by
the
coronavirus
outbreak.
J
So
we
use
that
to
implement
a
summer
cooling
program,
which
we
talked
a
little
bit
about
last
year,
which
allowed
us,
for
the
first
time
in
forever,
to
be
able
to
provide
a
year-round
utility
assistance
program
for
for
those
who
are
eligible,
our
eligibility
right
now,
it's
a
little
bit
higher
than
it
normally
is
we're
at
150
of
the
federal
poverty
guidelines.
J
This
is
in
response
to
the
you
know.
Additional
funds
we
have
through
through
cares-
and
it
allows
us
to
serve
a
broader
population
of
kentuckians,
who
are
low
incomes,
who
might
be
struggling
with
their
home
energy
needs.
J
Excuse
me
so
we'll
go
through
the
different
types
of
assistance
that
the
program
provides.
So
number
one
is
bill
payment
assistance
which,
like
I
said,
is
year
round
now
for
heating
and
cooling,
we'll
talk
about
the
subsidy
components,
the
crisis
components,
there's
some
emergency
assistance
we
can
provide
and
then
weatherization
activities.
J
So
for
the
subsidy,
this
this
is
the
heating
subsidy
that
takes
place
november
through
december
each
year.
It's
to
offset
home
costs,
it's
an
amount,
that's
available
to
homes,
households
based
on
their
percentage
of
poverty,
where
they,
you
know
which
level
they
meet.
J
We
we
do
the
applications
a
little
bit
earlier
in
october
for
the
elderly
and
disabled
households
that
need
the
assistance.
Just
so
they're
not
competing
with
everybody
else.
That's
making
their
applications.
We
can
give
some
special
attention
to
those
households,
and
then
we
do
make
appointments
available
for
working
individuals.
So
we
can
work
around
their
schedules.
They
don't
have
to
take
off
work.
J
The
crisis
component
offers
assistance
for
a
an
energy
emergency.
That's
either
they're
facing
imminent
cut
off.
If
they
don't
have
some,
you
know
some
assistance
with
their
bill
or
they
may
be
out
of
their
heating
fuel
for
those
who
use
alternative
methods
outside
of
natural
gas
and
electric
like
coal
and
propane
and
and
wood.
J
So
the
assistance
is
limited
to
the
amount
necessary
necessary
to
relieve
the
crisis.
So
it's
up
to
a
maximum
of
six
hundred
dollars
for
gas
or
electric
or
a
load
of
one
of
those,
a
deliverable
load
of
one
of
those
bulk
fuels
I
mentioned
before
it
doesn't
mean
they.
It's
an
automatic
six
hundred
dollars
is
just
up
to
that
amount
and
we'll
provide
some
numbers
here
to
show
what
those
average
payments
are.
J
The
spring
subsidy,
which
is
one
of
the
newer
components
we
just
did
last
year.
It
does
offer
assistance
for
cooling
again
like
the
heating
subsidy.
It's
a
structured
amount
based
on
what
percentage
of
household
poverty,
what
percentage
of
poverty
the
household
meets,
and
if
they
have
you
know,
high
energy
costs
that
application
is
for
may
through
june,
and
then
we
have
kind
of
a
combination,
cooling,
subsidy
and
crisis
component
that
runs
july
through
october
and
like
the
the
heating
crisis,
it's
meant
to
alleviate
an
emergency
situation
with
cooling
and,
of
course,
with
cooling
programs.
J
J
It
serves
low-income
households
up
to
200
percent
of
the
federal
poverty
level,
but
the
prioritization
is
is
here:
households
with
elderly,
disabled
individuals
or
children,
especially
young
children,
at
risk
of
removal
by
our
cabinet,
because
they're
in
substandard
conditions.
Maybe
these
funds
could
make
a
home
living
situation
better
and
then
high
energy
burden,
households
where
energy
costs
would
be
more
than
15
percent
of
their
of
their
income.
J
Some
of
the
activities
that
the
weatherization
program
performs
installing
insulation
air
infiltration
that
should
be
replacement
there
of
heating
systems
or
water
heaters
or
repair
of
those,
depending
on
the
return
on
investment
of
those.
It's
not
return
on
investment.
What's
the
right
word,
I'm
looking
for.
J
And
then
the
weatherization
program
also
does
address
health
and
safety
issues,
so
testing
for
gas
leaks,
carbon
monoxide,
combustible
appliances,
smoke
and
carbon
monoxide
detectors,
and
then
energy
education,
especially
for
those
households
with
elderly,
disabled
or
or
children,
so
state
fiscal
year
2021.
I
have
three
of
the
four
main
components
here.
We
didn't
have
the
fourth
one,
and
I
think
roger
has
those
numbers
to
provide,
but,
as
you
can
see,
each
component
is
about
average
is
about
65
000.
J
I
think
the
the
the
heating
crisis
is
a
little
bit
higher
and
you
can
see
where
the
average
amount
of
assistance
is
there.
So,
even
though
the
maximum
is
pretty
high,
the
average
amount
needed
to
address
situations
is
usually
lower,
much
lower
than
that
actual
maximum
amount,
and
that
roger,
if
you
want
to
give
the
this,
is
for
the
2021
heating
crisis
component,
which
we
didn't
have
closed
out
at
the
time
we
made
this
presentation.
B
J
So
usually
the
the
winter
crisis
component
serves
more
households
and
and
has
a
higher
price
tag
to
it.
But
you
know
just
keep
in
perspective.
There's
1.75
million
households
in
kentucky,
if
you
added
all
these
numbers
together,
of
course,
there's
overlap
between
each
of
the
components
we
serve
about
160
plus
thousand
households
in
the
state,
so
a
little
less
than
ten
percent
than
the
of
the
households
in
the
state.
J
J
With
that
with
those
funds,
I
will
say
that
there
is
a
a
new
federal
stream
for
water
and
wastewater
that
will
be
coming
soon,
we're
in
the
planned
development
stages
right
now
in
case
you've
heard
of
that
program.
It's
the
low
income,
household
water
and
wastewater
assistance
program
or
l-I-w-h-a-p.
That's
it.
I
think.
That's
right
so
it'll
be
very
similar
to
la
heat,
but
it'll
be
focused
on
water
and
wastewater,
so
that'll
be
coming
soon.
E
Well,
good
afternoon,
again,
I'm
roger
mccann,
I'm
the
executive
director
of
community
action
kentucky.
You
know
we
are
that
state
association
for
the
23
community
action
agencies.
Those
23
cover
every
single
one
of
the
counties.
They
have
at
least
one
office
in
every
single
one
of
the
120
counties,
and
they
do
that
because
they
can
access
folks
right
there
in
their
county
and
22
of
those
are
non-profit,
501,
c
3s.
One
of
them
is
a
what
we
call
a
public
community
action
agency.
E
They
are
part
of
the
metro
government
in
louisville,
appreciate
you
all
having
us
today.
I
appreciate
the
committee
and
thank
you,
chairman,
gooch
and
and
and
chairman
smith
for
again
having
us
here
to
talk
about
this.
As
jason
mentioned,
liheep
is
federal
funded.
There
are
no
state
funds
in
this
program
and,
as
he
pointed
out,
both
the
lahi
program
and
our
cornerstone
funding,
which
is
the
community
services
block,
grant,
were
actually
created
during
the
reagan
administration.
E
The
idea
was
is
to
make
these
things
local.
That's
why
we're
in
all
the
120
counties
put
decisions
into
states?
Let
kentucky
shape
that
state
plan
and
make
it
a
hand.
Part
of
a
package
of
hand
up
not
hand
out.
So,
if
you
can
imagine
that's
that's
the
era
where
it
came
from
the
reagan
administration
created
both
the
csbg
program
and
the
la
heat
program.
E
It
helps
people
go
to
jobs,
get
get
education,
and-
and
it's
important
that
that
folks
do
that-
we
want
them
to
go
to
school.
We
want
to
get
a
job,
we
want
them
to
pay
their
bills,
we
want
them
to
keep
their
electricity
on,
and
so
this
program,
especially
when
we've
had
economic
downturns,
is
extremely
important.
To
make
sure
that
that
happens.
E
La
heap
is
a
whole
household
program,
and
what
I
mean
by
that
is
it's
not
addressing
a
single
person
in
the
household.
It
is
addressing
everybody
that
lives
in
that
household.
So,
while
a
parent
may
apply,
the
benefit
goes
to
the
children
and
it
may
go
to
the
senior
or
grandparent
that's
living
with
them.
It
affects
the
whole
household.
So
it's
important
to
look
at
it.
E
From
that
standpoint,
weatherization
is
the
same
way
when
we,
when
we
seal
a
drafty
window,
we're
helping
everybody
in
the
home
right
and
also
jason
mentioned
that
there
is
no
cash
payment
in
this
program.
The
payments
are
made
directly
to
the
utilities,
so
we
are
basically
making
those
payments
on
their
behalf
to
make
sure
that
their
lights
stay
on,
but
there
is
no
opportunity
for
a
household
to
divert
that
someplace
else.
There's
lots
of
good
programs
out
there
for
other
things,
addressing
food
or
something
else,
but
this
is
specifically
and
solely
for
energy
assistance.
E
E
They
they
usually
wind
up
back
in
the
hospital
and,
if
they're
on
medicaid
that
costs
the
taxpayer
a
tremendous
amount
of
money.
So
utilities,
food,
nutrition,
safety
from
domestic
violence,
transportation
and
housing
are
the
key
five
components
that
medicaid
cms
has
been
looking
at.
So
that's
why
utility
is
one
of
the
cornerstones
of
that.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
people
have
that
utility.
E
So
we
are
looking
at
and
working
on
program
on
on
how
we
look
at
that
data
and
demonstrate
that
worth.
But
we
know
that
these
things
are
true
from
the
data
there.
If
you've
ever
woken
up,
you
have
to
go
to
work
and
you
don't
have
electricity
or
your
hot
water
is
out.
It's
rough.
I've
done
it
right,
but
I've
never
had
to
go
for
weeks.
You
know
I've
never
had
to
go
for
months
and
the
the
where
on
it
would
take
to
go
to
your
job.
E
Our
utilities
were
showing
us
the
data
that
was
coming
in
and
showing
how
many
people
were
unable
to
pay
or
not
paying,
and
we
got
data
from
them
that
showed
the
the
number
of
people
that
were
in
arrears
and
what
not,
and
we
mentioned
the
law
app
program
and
the
in
the
healthy
at
home
fund
that
we
were
able
to
create
last
fall.
E
That
was
specifically
for
water
and
sewer
when
I
talked
to
those
small
municipal
water
systems
out
there,
a
lot
of
them
operate
on
shoestring
already
and
if
they
have
a
small
portion
of
folks
who
aren't
paying
they,
they
quickly
go
into
a
situation
where
they
could
they
could
be
in.
You
know
they
could
be
in
financial
trouble.
E
If
you
want
to
kill
a
community
off,
pull
their
electricity
out
or
their
water,
their
sewer,
and
if
you
want
to
try
to
invest
in
kentucky
from
economic
development
standpoint,
if
we're
trying
to
bring
in
jobs
we're
trying
to
bring
in
factories
into
our
communities
if
they
don't
have
that
infrastructure,
they
won't
locate
here.
So
so.
E
The
other
part
of
this
and
and
the
federal
money
that
was
added
through
cares,
was
to
help
the
folks
immediately
keep
their
lights
on
and
to
serve
that,
but
also
to
make
sure
that
those
utilities,
those
those
municipal
water
systems,
were
able
to
keep
operating
and
and
stay
solvent.
And
so
that's
why
this
port?
The
program
is
so
important
because
it
helps
the
entire
community,
so
I
wanted
to
mention
that
we
did
see
a
much
higher
demand
whenever
we
do
see
those
economic
swings.
We
saw
it
during
the
financial
crisis
that
009
10.
E
and
then
we
saw
it
here
with
covid.
We
see
people
who
come
to
our
doors,
who
say
I've
never
been
in
this
situation
before.
What
do
I
do
and
we
introduced
them
to
these
programs?
So
it's
not
just
the
same
old
people
over
and
over.
We
see
new
folks
that
come
in
and
they
just
needed
that
temporary
gap
fix
to
get
across
the
line.
E
So
we
did
see
a
whole
lot
of
folks
that
came
in,
and
I
have
letters
from
people
that
participated
in
the
healthy
at
home,
the
la
heap
that
that
said
that
they
would
have
lost
their
family,
they
would
have
lost
their
home
had
they
not
been
able
to
participate
in
a
program
like
this.
That
money
will
the
big
the
extra
money
will
go
away,
we'll
come
back
to
what
the
normal
money
is,
and
we
still
have
those
folks
out
in
our
communities
out
there.
E
But
I
just
want
to
emphasize
to
you
that
it's
that
the
the
utilities
are
incredibly
important.
Our
heating
and
fuel
vendors
are
incredibly
important
and-
and
it's
so
important
that
this
program
keeps
those
lights
on
for
the
kids,
the
grandparents
everybody
in
that
household.
I
appreciate
you
all
taking
the
time
to
look
at
the
program.
Have
us
here.
Let
us
talk
about
it
and
happy
to
answer
any
questions
we'll
have.
Thank
you
very.
L
I've
got
two
questions
I'll
go
ahead
and
ask
both
of
them,
because
one
was
for
each
one
of
you
all,
so
you
all
can
kind
of
piggyback
on
it.
I
do
want
to
ask
a
question
about
the
you
know.
You
mentioned
the
water
program,
the
water
wastewater,
everything
like
that,
and
I
guess
I'm
thinking
more
along
the
lines.
I
know
we've
got
a
lot
of
berries
that
have
you
know,
constituents
that
have
septic
tanks
and
also
the
package
treatment
plants.
L
We've
talked
about
those
throughout
our
tenure
here
of
trying
to
figure
out
a
lot
of
those
are
failing
things
like
that
and
communities
they're
applying
for
funding
for
certain
areas
if
they
actually
have
people
in
their
area
that
qualify
under
what
these
rules
are
because,
right
now,
whenever
we
go
out,
we
have
to
go
door-to-door
to
door
and
find
and
interview
each
and
every
one
of
those
people
for
them
to
be
able
to
qualify
for
the
most
amount
of
money
to
put
those
places
in
place.
I
guess.
L
How
does
that
affect
the
funding?
For
you
know,
because,
basically,
you
know
I'll
give
an
example.
I've
got
two
in
my
area.
One
area
is
not
a
low,
they
did
not
qualify
for
the
household
being
low
enough
in
that
area,
so
that
area
is
paying
a
substantial
amount
increase
on
there
to
be
connected
to
the
sewer
lines.
Things
like
that,
but
there
was
a
package
treatment
plant
that
went
in
specifically
for
a
very
low
income
area
and
that
has
been
able
to
be
paid
for.
J
L
Easier
than
the
ones
that
weren't
poor
enough
to
qualify
to
have
government
assistance
so
to
speak,
so
it's
kind
of
it's
lopsided
on
how
we
help
in
that
circumstance.
So
I
guess
I'm
kind
of
curious
how
that's
going
to
work
if
they
get
assistance
and
then
I'll
go
ahead
and
ask
my
second
question
that
way:
y'all
can
can
figure
out
who
you
keep
referencing
the
hand
up,
not
a
handout.
Is
there
a
time
limit
that
people
can
be
on
this
or
once
they
qualify?
Are
they
on
it
indefinitely
or
is
there
a
time
limit
of?
E
Right
so
so
the
lahi
program
is
not
a
program
you
get
on
and
you're
on,
and
you
get
something.
Every
month
the
lahi
program,
traditional
liheap
subsidy
is
offered
in
the
fall.
We
have
an
early
enrollment
for
seniors
folks
with
a
disability,
and
but
they
specifically
have
to
have
a
be
on
a
fixed
income.
So
we
target
those
folks
with
a
fixed
income
where
that
energy
bill
is
going
to
be
a
large
portion.
E
You
know
that
because
they're
going
to
get
an
increase
in
the
winner,
it's
going
to
be
a
large
portion
of
their
social
security,
for
example,
and
so
that
subsidy
goes
on
as
a
credit
and
it
helps
them
manage
their
money
through
the
winner
and
the
average
payment
of
that
historically
has
been
around
120
dollars.
One
shot
one
one
time,
one
time
a
year,
okay
and
they
would
have
to
reapply
the
following
year.
So
that's
that's
the
limit.
It's
not
a
it's,
not
a
long
thing.
Now.
E
A
light
crisis
program
is
designed
a
little
differently.
You
do
have
to
meet
the
income
eligibility
requirements,
but
you
also
have
to
demonstrate
a
need.
So
you
have
to
demonstrate
that
you
are
behind
on
the
bill
and
it
will
only
allow
you
to
pay
up
to
so
much
on
that
bill.
So
there's
a
maximum
amount.
E
Historically,
that's
been
about
400
for
life
crisis
and,
if
they
owed,
if
they,
if
they
needed
two
hundred
dollars-
and
they
were
gonna-
have
a
disconnect
and
they
needed
two
hundred
dollars
to
to
keep
from
disconnecting
they
could
get
the
200
in
january
and
and
maybe
if
they
had
some
more
they,
you
know
if
they
needed
some
more.
They
could
come
back
and
get
a
little
bit
more
in
march,
but
they
would
be
capped
at
the
four
hundred
dollars
per
year.
A
little
bit
different
with
all
the
coveted
money.
E
That's
come
in
right.
We've
got
some
extra
components
coming
up
and
we've
seen
folks.
We've
we've
pulled
data
from
utilities
that
shows
that
we
have
people
with
four
hundred
and
six
hundred
and
thousand
and
two
thousand
dollars
in
a
rear
edge,
so
we're
trying
to
get
those
help
them
pay
that
down
so
that
that
debt,
if
you're
on
a
fixed
income
like
social
security
and
you
have
two
thousand
dollar
utility
bill-
that's
that's
going
to
be
a
hardship
to
overcome,
so
we
are
trying
to
help
them
overcome
that
with
this
extra
federal
money.
E
J
On
your
other
question,
I
think
we
I
start
to
get
out
of
my
element,
because
these
programs
are
intended
for
individual
households.
So
if
you're
talking
about
community
costs,
you
know,
I
think
those
are
addressed
a
different
way.
J
I'd
have
to
go
and
look
at
the
federal
legislation
to
see
if
the,
if,
if
it's
just
sewer
and
water
or
if
it's
other
costs
that
individual
households
might
incur
just
to
be
sure,
but
you
know
these-
these
are
designed
just
for
individual
households.
So
if
there's
community-wide
projects,
I
think
that's
more
of
a
community
development
block
grant.
Am
I
right.
J
L
A
Okay,
we
do
have
several
people
that
have
questions
representative
prunty
had
indicated
she
had
a
question
early
on.
I'm.
B
B
Yes,
first
of
all,
thank
you
for
your
report
and
thank
you
for
the
history,
I'm
all
about
empowering
people
not
enabling
them,
and
thank
you
for
the
good
use
of
the
use
or
loose
funds
for
water
and
wastewater,
because
I
know
I
have
communities
in
my
district
that
appreciate
that,
so
that
they've
been
able
to
stay
afloat.
So
thank
you
for
that.
My
question
is
on
page
three
on
your
third
slide:
you,
you
estimate
that
the
amount
of
money
for
funding
is
going
to
go
down
several
million.
J
That's
our
anticipated
federal
amount
and
that's-
and
the
cares
money
that
we
talked
about
earlier
that
was
set
aside
for
la
heap.
We
had
more
than
one
federal
fiscal
year
to
pay
that
so
we
we
we
have
a
longer
period
of
time
with
that
money,
so
that
should
help
smooth
out
that
bump
for
now
now,
in
future
years
you
know
we
don't
know
what
that
allocation
is
going
to
be
from
the
federal
government.
So
right
now
we're
okay,
because
we
have
those
additional
cares.
Funds.
B
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
before
I
ask
my
question,
I'm
just
going
to
echo
a
little
bit
of
what
representative
miles
said
this
community
that
she
was
mentioning
was
just
barely
above
the
level
where
they
could
have
gotten
some
assistance
and
I'm
thinking
that
the
increase
in
their
bills
might
have
brought
them
back
down
into
the
level
where
you
guys
might
be
able
to
help.
H
So
maybe
we
need
to
talk
about
this
offline
a
little
bit,
but
I
would
appreciate
it
if
we
would
look
at
this
community
and
see
if
there's
something
that
you
guys.
Okay
might
be
able
to
help
with
that
on
that,
and
but
my
question
was
in
the
weatherization
programs
who
does
the
work?
Is
it
the
utility
companies
that
does
the
work
or
is
it
contracted
out,
and
then
how
do
they
get
paid?.
E
Yeah,
so
so
the
yeah,
so
the
there
are-
and
let
me
start
by
saying
that
there
are
two
funding
stream,
two
primary
funding
streams
for
weatherization
in
kentucky.
The
first
is
the
department
of
energy's
weatherization
program
and
it
is
a
energy
efficiency
program
and
it
sets
what
measures
you
can
do
and
it
sets
what
the
sir
the
return
on
investment
ratio
has
to
be
and
everything
else,
as
jason
mentioned
that
so
that's
coming
through
doe
now,
you've
got
health
and
human
services.
E
You've
got
hhs
and
they've
got
la
heap,
but
federal
reg
allows
a
state
to
choose
to
roll
over
15
up
to
15
percent
of
your
liahi
funds
into
weatherization
to
ride
parallel,
and
so
kentucky
does
that
we
use
15
percent
of
the
light
funds
into
that.
Now,
that
goes
through
kentucky
housing
corporation
and
they
directly
contract
with
community
action
agencies
to
take
the
applications,
identify
the
households
and
and
identify
the
income
eligible
households,
but
then
identify
households
that
are
eligible
for
weatherization
and
then
actually
perform
the
work.
E
When
I
say
eligible
for
participation,
something
that
jason
alluded
to
in
his
slide,
we
walk
away
and
I'm
it's
going
to
vary
across
the
state.
But
the
a
safe
rule
of
thumb
would
be
for
me
to
say
we
walk
away
from
two
homes
for
every
one
home
we
weatherize
in
the
state,
because
the
home
does
not
meet
enough
standard
that
the
doe
will
allow
a
doe
dollar
to
go
into
it.
So
so,
but
but
to
answer
the
question
it
is
performed
by
the
community
action
agencies,
their
weatherization
offices
in
those
counties.
E
Yes,
some
of
them
have,
they
typically
have
a
weatherization
director
and
some
staff
that
are
that
are
employees
of
the
agency.
Some
of
them
have
their
own
crews,
so
they're
crew
based
what
we
call
and
some
of
them
will
contract
and
some
of
them
do
will
do
a
blend.
So
if
you
had
somebody
who
needed
to
do
electrician
work,
you
may
not
have
the
electrician
on
staff.
E
You
may
just
need
to
call
them
on
on
on
occasion
when
you
need
them,
and
so
you
have
a
a
contract
set
up
with
an
electrician
to
call
in
and
do
the
work.
So
it
depends
upon
the
availability
of
labor,
the
availability
of
who
they've
got
trained
in
the
area
and
just
for
efficiency's
sake
and
what
makes
sense
so.
E
I
I
want
to
say
that
the
lahit
program,
probably
one
of
the
most
valuable
programs
offered
in
government
services
as
a
former
social
worker
for
the
past
30
plus
years
laheep,
was
something
that
I
was
constantly
referring.
People
to
for
assistance,
also
the
weatherization
program.
All
these
programs
are
critical
in
order
to
be
able
to
keep
families
together.
I
I
I
know
it's
all
based
on
funding,
but
there
is
just
so
many
of
them
out
there
that
when
they
have
six
and
seven
hundred
dollars
a
month
in
utilities
and
they
are
on
a
fixed
income,
then
they
they're
pretty
responsible,
you're
elderly,
so
they
really
do
without
food
medicine,
everything
to
pay
these
utilities
and
with
the
rising
cost
of
utilities.
I
hope
you
take
that
into
consideration.
I
J
Of
the
reasons
we
raised
that
income
limit,
while
we
had
the
the
money
to
be
able
to
do
that
to
to
catch
some
of
those
households
that
we
weren't
traditionally
able
to
serve.
But.
E
I'll
add
that
yeah,
the
150
is
the
maximum
that
the
fed
will
allow
right.
So
so
we
have
to
go
to
washington
if
we're
going
to
move
right.
Just
that
the
state
is
is
using
the
maximum
poverty
guideline.
We
would
love
to
raise
it
right.
We're
we're
restricted
by
by
the
by
the
fed
reg
on.
I
I
E
I
E
All
right
I'll
do
that,
yes,
ma'am
and
I'll
want
to
say
too.
When
we
talk
about
you
know,
do
you
do
you
see
somebody
get
on
a
program
and
just
stay
on?
For
you
know
we
have
traditionally,
without
you
know,
before
covet
traditionally
our
subsidy
program
in
the
fall
and
our
crisis
program
in
the
winter
you,
the
subsidy,
is
giving
that
that
discount
that
let's
help
helps
people
manage
right
and
then
and
then
the
crisis
program
is
once
you've
become
so
far
behind
that
you're
getting
a
disconnect.
E
You
only
see
about
45
percent
overlap
between
the
client
demographics
of
those
two
programs,
because
what
you
just
said,
the
seniors,
they're
very
responsible
they'll
pay
their
bill.
They
don't
want
to,
let
it
ever
get
behind.
They
won't
get
that
disconnect
and
it's
the
seniors
who
really
use
that
subsidy
to
help
them
get
through
and,
like
you
said,
they'll
cut
their
medicine,
they'll
cut
their
food
and
the
affordability
is
absolutely
critical
to
them,
and
if
it
costs
more
to
heat
and
cool,
then
then
they
they
get.
E
I
I
Are
the
people
that
kind
of
I
call
them
the
working
poor?
They
worked
all
their
life
and
paid
into
the
tax
system,
and
you
know
I
feel,
like
those
are
some
people
that
need
to
be
focused
on.
So
thank
you.
Thank.
A
You
thank
you.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that,
of
course
I've
been
doing
public
hearings
on
this
program
for
over
20
years.
The
first
time
when
I
was
chairman
of
the
special
subopinion
energy
we
used
to
to
to
do
this
program
and
it's
a
great
program.
I'm
not
I'm
not
saying
that
it's
not,
but
unfortunately
you
have
a
program
where
there's
just
there's
just
a
pot
of
money.
It's
x
number
of
dollars
and
when
it's
gone,
it's
gone,
and
you
know
you
know.
A
If
you
raise
eligibility,
then
what's
there
will
be
more
people
applying
the
money
is
going
to
be
gone
sooner
and
one
of
the
problems
that
I've
argued
for
a
long
time
is
that
you
know
a
lot
of
times.
Folks
feel
good
about.
Well,
we've
got
this
light
program
where
you
know
we'll
help
people
with
their
utilities.
A
At
the
same
time,
the
very
people
who
are
talking
about
how
wonderful
that
is
are
doing
things
that
are
going
to
increase
their
energy
cost,
and
you
know
we've
already
seen
gasoline
go
up
about
50
since
january
of
this
year,
and
I
can
tell
you
that
we're
going
to
see
a
lot
of
energy
costs
go
up
and
it's
going
to
happen
and
unless
someone
is
up
there,
making
this
pot
a
little
bit
bigger.
You
know
it's
not
it's
not
enough
for
those
folks
to
say
oh
yeah,
but
we
have
light
right.
So.
E
J
J
Right
and
and
every
year
I
mean
that's
a
conversation
we
have
to
have
at
the
beginning
of
every
year.
Here's
how
much
we
have.
What
do
we
think
we're
gonna,
you
know,
what's
the
weather
going
to
be
like
you
know,
you
can't
predict
that
either
we
we
have
to
do
our
best
to
try
and
estimate.
You
know
how
the
how
to
make
these
funds
last
throughout
the
seasons
that
we
have.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
First,
I
want
to
thank
you
for,
for
this
bring
this
to
us.
I
have
a
question
about
our
veterans.
Some
of
our
veterans
are
not
on
ssi
or
social
security,
and
but
do
you
have
a
program
for
our
veterans
that
that
are
disabled,
that
they
can
apply
through
this.
J
They
are
not
a
specific
population
called
out
in
the
in
the
heap
legislation,
so
they're
not
not
especially
now
that
doesn't
mean
we
can't
do
outreach
with
veteran
serving
organizations
to
help
make
sure
everybody
knows
that
this
is
a
program.
They
can
refer
veterans
to
it's
like
I
say
it's
not
specially
called
out
in
the
legislation,
but
I
think
we
could
probably
make
sure
we
have
some
outreach
with
organizations
you
think
we
need
to
be
in
touch
with.
We
can
absolutely
do
that.
E
D
F
On
a
good
day,
a
third
of
my
people
don't
have
the
internet
and
we
have
an
event
like
the
ice
storm
or
something
like
that
where
we
did
lose
to
elderly
individuals
and
then
our
bills
spiked
to
the
point
of
ridiculousness.
You
know
I
didn't
have
power
for
10
days
and
and
still
got
a
bill
that
was
higher
than
normal,
but
so
nobody
has
been
able
to
explain
that.
But,
but
you
know
so,
there
was
a
spike
in
in
the
rates
we
had
a
catastrophe.
F
It
looks
like
our
weather
patterns
are
going
to
be
more
amenable
to
anomaly,
like
that.
We
had
three
snowstorms
in
a
period
of
10
days
over
150-year
event
and
and
lost
again
two
people's
lives.
But
you
know
if,
when
you
don't
have
that
internet
access
or
you,
you
can't
get
out
a
haul
or
to
get
to
let
anybody
know
when
your
power
does
come
back
on.
There
may
be
trees
down
that.
You
can't.
F
J
Yeah,
if,
if
I
can
speak
for
you
roger,
I
think
those
protocols
that
that
roger
went
through
what
we
did.
You
know
changed
for
coronavirus.
Those
would
be
in
addition
to
the
traditional
services
that
have
always
been
provided,
so
it
wouldn't
shut
any
doors,
we're
just
trying
to
open
some
new
ones.
J
B
First
of
all,
I'd
just
like
to
say
what
a
phenomenal
program
you
guys
operate.
Thank.
J
B
And
so
good
to
hear
some
of
this
information
been
given
us
today,
but
I
guess
I'm
going
to
play
the
devil's
advocate
a
little
bit.
B
We
know
there's
other
government
subsidized
programs
out
there
with
that
being
said,
we
know
how
people
manipulate
systems
and
play
the
system.
Is
there
any
cross-referencing
with
other
government
agencies
when
there's
potentially
you
know
those
people
out
there
that
just
don't
want
to
work
or
just
don't
have
or
spending
their
money
on
other
things
instead
of
wasting
a
government
dollar,
I
didn't
know
if
there
was
any
cross-referencing
with
other
government
agencies.
E
I
can't
I
can't
speak
to
what
they
spend
their
money
on.
It's
not
something.
I
have
visibility
in
and
it's
not
something
in
the
reg
that
would
allow
us
to
approve
or
deny.
But
what
we
do
do
is
our
computer
system.
We
track
every
household,
some
other
states
don't
require
social
security
number
or
a
permanent
resident
number
to
track.
Folks,
we
do
in
kentucky
that
helps
us
know
if
it's
the
same
person
from
one
area
to
another
applying.
E
So
if
somebody
were
on
somebody
went
to
pikeville
and
applied
and
then
went
down
to
western
kentucky,
try
well,
we
would
know
it.
Our
system
would
flag
that
individual
it.
Then
we
open
an
investigation.
We
are
not
police.
We
have
no
authority
to
do
anything,
but
we
report
it
to
the
authorities.
Who
can
investigate
that?
I
don't
like
fraud
at
all,
because
if
somebody
is
defrauding
the
system
they're
taken
from
somebody
who
could
have
been
getting
the
help.
So
we
are
we.
We
are
serious
about
detecting
that.
E
We
have
a
series
of
of
internal
controls
in
our
system
that
that
we
log
everything,
so
a
person
couldn't
apply
and
then
and
reapply
or
or
change
something
or
do
this.
We
do
that
with
kentucky
utilities
and
lg
e.
We
have
an
interface
they've
they've
allowed
us
to
build
a
direct
interface
to
their
software
system.
We
can
put
an
account
number
in
five
seconds,
look
and
see
if
they
showed
us
a
bill
that
says
they
owe
two
hundred
dollars.
We
can
see
what
their
actual
balance
is
and
what
will
happen
is.
E
Let's
say
they
got
a
hundred
dollars
from
somewhere
somewhere
else.
Well,
no,
we'll
red,
we'll
deduce
it
down
to
the
hundred
dollars
because
that's
what
they
need.
That's
the
minimum
to
alleviate
the
crisis,
I'm
trying
to
be
mean
okay,
but
that's
what
you
needed
to
do.
Okay,
so
so
we
do
those
things,
and
then
we
do
have
a
data
exchange
with
the
cabinet.
We
we
trade
information.
We
send
up
all
all
the
details
and
and
information
of
everybody
that
applied.
E
They
match
that
in
their
computer
system
and
we
have
the
ability
to
look
and
cross
check
the
information
they've
reported
to
them
to
us.
So
we
are
making
every
effort
to
to
do
that
again.
We're
not
we're
not
a
policing
agency,
we
don't
have
the
power,
but
we
do
report
them
and
turn
them
in
and
we
do
everything
that's
within
the
reg
that
allows
us
to
to
monitor
that.
But,
like
I
say,
fraud
is
not
not
a
friend
of
mine.
Thank.
A
Thank
you
now.
This
meeting
obviously
was
listed
as
a
presentation,
the
public
hearing
on
the
low
energy,
home
heating
assistance
or
heat
program.
No
one
signed
up
else
has
signed
up
to
speak
and
no
one
has
contacted
staff
to
to
speak.
So
at
this
time,
pursuant
to
krs
45.353,
the
leihe
state
plan
for
fiscal
year,
20
2022
was
referred
to
this
committee
for
review
and
consideration.
A
The
entire
application
is
available
online
for
the
members,
including
your
favorite,
folder
and
available
online.
Are
the
findings
of
fact
to
be
considered
by
this
committee.
Is
there
a
motion
to
approve
the
funds,
the
most
improved?
The
second:
is
there
any
further
discussion?
M
M
J
I
I
B
M
D
A
A
M
This
is
senator
schickel.
Can
I
cast
and
I
vote
or
is
it
too
late.
A
No,
no,
that's
fine,
we'll.
We
will.
B
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for.
A
Okay,
gentlemen,
thank
you
very
much
and
just
stand
up.
A
You
thank
you.
Okay.
Next,
on
the
agenda,
we
have
an
update
on
new
mines
in
kentucky
and
the
role
of
the
division
of
mine
safety.
I
think
we
have
rebecca
goodman
secretary
of
the
energy
environment,
gordon
sloan,
a
commissioner
of
department
of
national.
B
Resources
for
the
lunch
we'll
take
the
the
basil
and
now.
A
A
Thank
you.
We
welcome
you
to
the
committee.
Ask
you
to
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
give
us
your
report.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
being
here.
H
Very
happy
to
do
that,
and
thank
you
for
having
us
chairman
smith
and.
B
H
All
right,
thank
you
very
much
for
having
us.
We
appreciate
you
indulging
us
and
letting
us
come
over
here
and
give
you
some
good
news
for
a
change.
We
hope
it's
not
remarkably
good
news,
but
it
is
good
news
for
this
industry
that
has
been
so
plagued
and
is
so
important
to
everybody
in
eastern
kentucky
in
pockets
of
western
kentucky.
H
I
do
want
to
offer
for
the
committee
just
prior
to
getting
into
the
natural
resources
portion
that
the
the
cabinet
has
an
energy
affordability,
work
group
and
participating
in
that
work.
Group
are
a
number
of
agencies
across
the
state,
including
community
action
and
including
chfs
and
many
others.
We've
just
started
that
and
had
our
first
meeting
and
so
we're
going
to
try
to
make
some
findings
about
where
gaps
are
in
the
system
and
where
people
fall
through
the
cracks,
and
I
noticed
in
the
presentation
today
the
energy
burden
was
noted.
H
The
maximum
was
up
to
15
percent
with
respect
to
that
program,
but
we
have
found
pockets
in
eastern
kentucky
where
the
actual
energy
burden
is
is
closer
to
20
percent
and
so
we're
trying
to
identify
some
gaps
and
we
would
love
to
have
that
work
group
come
over
and
perhaps
give
you
some
testimony
on
that
a
little
later
on.
So
please
keep
that
in
mind.
We'd
be
happy
to
come
and
talk
to
the
committee.
A
Okay,
well,
I
think
that
we
can.
We
there's
no
question
that
worldwide,
that
coal
and
and
fossil
fuels
are
the
cheapest
sources
of
energy
out
there.
So
you
know,
I
think,
that
the
more
we
try
to
stray
away
from
that
the
higher
the
prices
are
going
to
be.
So
thank
you
for
that.
H
Well,
utility
rates
rarely
go
down,
that's
true,
so
I
have
with
me
today,
commissioner
gordon
sloan
and
deputy
commissioner
david
fields
and
they're,
going
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
information
on
the
status
of
the
coal
industry
in
kentucky.
Thank
you.
M
Thank
you,
secretary,
goodman,
chairman
smith,
chairman
gooch
and
committee
members,
we're
here
today
to
share
a
little
bit
of
good
news
and
then
discuss
the
role
of
our
division
of
mind.
Safety.
M
M
Over
the
past
several
months,
we've
had
several
new
mines
that
were
opened
or
idle
minds
have
reopened
so
underground
mines.
We
have
five
new
mines
and
five
reopened
mines
on
the
surface
mines.
We
have
12
new
surface
mines
that
have
opened
and
two
that
have
reopened
the
opening
of
the
the
new
mines
and
the
reopening
of
idled
mines
has
resulted
in
the
hiring
of
some
new
miners.
So
in
the
underground
mines,
we've
got
615
miners
that
have
been
employed
very
recently
and
on
the
surface
we've
got
214
more.
M
M
I
apologize
that
this
slide
and
the
following
ones
are
kind
of
hard
to
read.
So
let
me
just
give
you
a
heads
up
on
what
it
shows
it
shows
the
underground
minds,
this
slide
by
name
and
county
that
have
returned
employees
to
work
or
hired
new
miners.
M
M
The
mines
that
are
not
colored
in
are
the
ones
that
have
added
mine
miners,
while
they've
continued
to
operate
the
ones
in
green
are
the
newly
licensed
underground
mines,
and
the
mines
in
blue
are
those
that
have
gone
from
idle
to
producing.
So
we
think
all
of
that
is
good
news.
We
have
quite
a
few
new
underground
mines,
mines
that
have
returned
to
active
status
and
they
brought
some
new
miners
into
the
industry
with
them.
M
Me,
yes,
sir,
I
would
note
that
nick
rogers
is
here
from
the
crush
stone
association.
We
may
talk
a
little
bit
about
that,
but
thank
you
for
that
clarification,
jeremy,
gucci.
So
this
slide
is
about
surface
coal
mines.
It
shows
surface
mines
by
name
and
county
that
have
returned
employees
to
work
or
hired
new
miners.
M
The
mines
that
are
not
colored
in
are
the
ones
those
have
added
miners
while
continuing
to
operate,
they
they
didn't
shut
down
and
they
haven't
reopened.
They've
been
continuing
to
operate.
The
mines
in
green
are
those
newly
licensed
surface
mines,
while
the
mines
in
blue
are
those
that
have
gone
from
idle
to
producing.
M
M
Along
with
the
new
and
reopened
minds
comes
the
need
to
make
sure
that
those
mines
have
mine
rescue
teams
within
an
hour's
drive.
That's
according
to
state
and
federal
law.
Our
division
of
my
safety
branch
offices
are
located
in
harlan
hazard,
pikeville
and
madisonville,
and
this
slide
shows
the
coverage
of
each
of
those
branch
offices
as
well
as
where
those
mines
are
that
have
hired
new
miners.
M
M
What
is
the
division
of
mind
safety
doing
with
the
united
states
army?
Well,
it's
a
cooperative
effort.
It's
available
to
assist
in
the
event
that
the
army
has
an
emergency
underground.
They
do
special
operations,
training
both
at
crestwood
and
at
fort
knox,
and
they
may
open
another
opera
special
operations
center
down
in
down
in
southeast
southwest
kentucky
as
well.
M
So
we
we
provide
the
emergency
operations
in
case
they
have
an
emergency
at
those
places.
We
also
provide
services,
we're
not
required
to
by
law
to
13
of
the
15
states,
rock
quarries,
and
that
crestwood
station
also
operates
as
kind
of
extra
equipment.
In
case
we
need
to
pull
mine,
I
mean
it's
located,
so
it
can
go
to
the
west
or
go
to
the
east
in
case
we
need
additional
equipment,
so
I
hope
that
that
graphic
helps
a
little
bit.
M
M
Let
me
talk
a
little
bit
about
mine
safety,
specialist
responsibilities,
I'm
doing
a
little
bit
of
a
swerve
for
you,
I'd
like
to
take
a
few
moments
to
discuss
what
we
do
for
the
division
of
mind
safety,
and
let
me
mention
that
deputy
commissioner
feels
was
formally
with
our
division
of
mine
safety,
so
he
has
experienced
long
decades
of
experience
in
the
mining
industry
and
then
experienced
also
as
a
mine
safety
specialist,
with
our
division
of
mine
safety,
the
division
conducts
six
regular
underground
inspections
each
year
at
each
underground
mine.
M
M
One
of
the
inspection
has
to
be
an
electrical
inspection.
So
that's
four
of
the
six
inspections
that
were
required
by
law.
To
do
so.
Typically,
we
at
least
do
two
full
inspections,
and
that
means
from
the
opening
of
the
mine
to
the
farthest
reaches
of
the
mines,
to
make
sure
that
those
mines
are
getting
all
the
ventilation.
They
need
that
the
electrical
portions
are
safe,
that
the
water
is
not
going
to
cause
problems
inside
the
mines.
M
Things
like
that
the
division
also
conducts
well
that's
two
of
those
two
two
regular
inspections
on
surface
mining
each
year,
so
they
don't
get
quite
as
many
as
the
underground,
but
typically
the
surface
is
a
little
more
forgiving
than
underground.
M
The
division
must
also
conduct
inspections
that
idled
mines,
those
that
are
not
producing
but
where
the
mining
company
is
keeping
the
mines
ventilated
and
maintained
in
anticipation
of
going
back
to
work.
So,
even
though
that
you
may
think
that
we
only
inspect
producing
mines,
no,
we
inspect
those
that
are
idled
as.
M
M
M
They
conduct
annual
retraining,
advanced
first
aid,
training,
mine
emergency
technician,
training,
cpr
and
various
other
areas
of
mining.
Last
year
the
division
conducted
8
875
different
trainings,
so
a
minor
may
receive
basic
new
minor
training.
They
may
also
receive
refresher
annual
refresher
training.
They
may
receive
electrical
training
training
on
the
surface
for
excavators
things
like
that,
so
we
do
18
different
types
of
training
for
our
state
minors.
M
The
division
places
an
emphasis
on
the
behavioral
based
assessments
versus
ms
regulatory
enforcement,
only
approach
which
has
severe
penalties
that
can
come
along
with
that.
We
typically
try
to
correct
the
behavior.
That's
causing
the
problem,
but
if
there
are
severe
issues
we
we
do
have
that
authority
to
issue
penalties
as
well.
M
M
Every
miner
who
goes
underground,
takes
it
as
an
article
of
faith
that,
if
there's
a
catastrophe
that
there's
going
to
be
a
mind,
rescue
team
coming
to
help
him
or
her
the
division
of
mine
safety
provides
mind.
Rescue
teams
to
every
mine
in
the
commonwealth.
Small
company
mines
cannot
provide
their
own
mine
rescue
teams,
they're
expensive.
They
take
people,
they
take
people
out
of
their
production.
M
It
is
difficult
for
the
small
miners
to
do
that
and
they
depend
on
the
coverage
provided
by
the
division
of
my
safety
in
order
to
avoid
being
shut
down
by
emcha.
Remember
they
might
have
to
have
a
mind
rescue
team
too,
within
one
hour's
driving
distance
msha
doesn't
do
that.
They
have
one
team
that
can
come
in
some
of
the
disasters
that
we've
had
it's
taken
them
days
before
they
can
put
any
kind
of
team
on
the
ground
so
and
by
then
it's
often
too
late.
M
Let
me
talk
last
about
the
prohibition
on
hiring
mine
safety
specialists.
These
are
the
people
that
make
up
those
mind:
rescue
teams,
the
language
from
the
legislature's
last
two
budget
bills
have
prohibited
the
hiring
of
mine
safety
specialists
and
we
have
lost
several
mine
safety
specialists
due
to
attrition
they've
retired.
We
had
one
who
passed
away,
unfortunately,
so
this
is
becoming
more
critical.
As
I
said,
we've
got
four
branch
offices.
M
That
has
lost
some
of
its
most
critical
members
the,
and
we
anticipate
that
perhaps
this
year,
we'll
lose
some
more
mine
safety
specialists.
M
M
Thank
you
for
the
attention
to
the
good
news
of
new
and
reopened
minds.
You
know
I
bet
I
have
messed
up.
I
did
not
give
you
the
benefit
of
some
of
the
slides,
but
you
have
them.
M
This
is
the
one
on
the
prohibition,
but
thank
you
for
your
attention
to
the
good
news
of
new
and
reopened
minds,
as
well
as
those
new
and
rehired
minds,
and
for
listening
to
our
request
that
you
do
what
you
can
to
remove
the
hiring
prohibition
for
mine
safety,
specials
schedules
and
future
budget
bills
secretary.
You
have
any.
M
Thank
you
chairmans
and
committee
members.
Do
you
have
any
questions
for
myself
or
deputy
commissioner
fields.
A
Yeah,
I
think
I
have
a
couple
questions
and
let
me
say
that
I
think
senator
webb
and
and
myself,
probably
the
only
members
in
the
general
assembly
that
actually
worked
underground.
A
I
spent
two
years
underground
at
island
creek,
coal
companies,
hamilton
number
one
mines,
united
mine
worker
member
and
senator
webb-
was
worked
underground
as
well,
and
we
were
here
we
we
were
here
when
we
passed
the
we
actually
doubled
the
number
of
mine
inspectors
just
a
few
months
after
we'd
passed
the
drug
bill
that
it
was
one
of
the
strictest
in
the
nation,
which
was
a
real
problem,
and
then
we
had
passed
another
bill
in,
I
think
2006.
A
That
was
probably
one
of
one
of
the
model
for
the
nation
and
one
we
had
one
member
here
who,
for
whatever
reason,
had
to
had.
He
didn't
get
something
past
year
before
and
he
had
to
pass
something
and-
and
we
actually
passed
a
bill
that
doubled
the
number
of
mine
inspections
and
normally
you
would
say:
well,
that's
probably
a
good
thing,
but
when,
as
you
mentioned,
you
also
have
the
electrical
inspections,
you
have
the
annual
inspections
there
and-
and
you
have
you
know-
lots
of
other
people
all
the
time.
A
The
mind
safety
analysts
that
are
there
looking
at
people
and
many
of
us
didn't
even
know
that
for
a
large
company
like
an
alliance
in
my
area,
one
inspection
probably
involved
two
inspectors
underground
every
day
for
a
month,
and
so
what
that
really
meant
was
that
someone
was
there
pretty
much
around
the
clock
all
the
time,
and
you
know
it's
so
it
didn't
sound
too
much
say:
oh
we're,
gonna
double
the
number
of
specses,
but
when
you
realize
that
it
takes
you
know
about
two
months
and
a
couple
of
people
a
month
with
a
couple
of
people:
that's
really
two
months
worth
of
inspections
there
it
was,
and-
and
that
was
at
a
time
when
we
probably
had
you
know,
400
to
500
mines
or
whatever,
and
it's
it's
difficult
for
some
of
us
to
understand
why
we
need
that
many
inspectors.
A
Now,
when
we
have
less,
you
know,
maybe
a
third
of
the
number
of
mines
that
we
had
back
then
and
and
probably
most
of
those
are
smaller
operators.
But
that
was
just
something
that
we
did
then,
and
I
I
probably
might
listen
to
an
attempt
to
hire
more
mine
safety.
A
Analysts
to
fund
the
the
rescue
teams,
but
I'm
certainly
not
interested
in
putting
more
people
underground,
so
the
inspectors
are
bumping
into
themselves,
because
I
can
tell
you,
when
inspector
comes
to
a
mines,
someone
has
to
top
management,
has
to
pull
off
and
take
those
people
around
and
that
sort
of
thing,
and
I'm
not
so
sure
that
sometimes
that
can't
hamper
the
safety,
because
those
guys
aren't
doing
the
job
that
they're
supposed
to
be
doing,
and
you
know
so,
there's
some
things
like
that
that
some
of
us
understand
that
have
been
there
and
been
in
the
industry.
M
Thank
you
and
in
response,
let
me
say
that
our
mind
inspectors
do
take
into
consideration
those
impacts
upon
the
mind's
productivity.
Quite
often
they
do
try
to
do
what
they
can
on
the
second
and
third
shifts.
Perhaps
when
there
may
not
be
production,
but
you
mentioned
also
the
the
large
mines,
the
alliance
mines
in
western
kentucky,
and
they
are
so
huge
that
if
they
did
have
any
type
of
catastrophe,
we
would
need
a
lot
of
people
to
assist
there.
A
Well,
and
they
they
have
in
the
past,
done
a
pretty
good
job
of
having
some
of
their.
You
know
very,
very
good
teams
as
mind
rescue
teams
as
well,
but
yeah.
We
we
understand
that
representing
our
central
web.
You
have
a
question.
I.
F
Have
a
couple
comments
and
a
couple
questions
if
I
may,
mr
chairman,
first
of
all
the
legislation
that
the
chairman
referenced
was
a
bipartisan
multi-stakeholder
many
hours
and
put
in
and
it
was-
is
a
national
model
and
has
been
utilized
all
over
the
united
states
and
even
in
congress
that
work-
and
I
think
it's
important
to
know
when
a
good
thing
comes
together
like
that
so
and
and
this
old
coal
miner
certainly
gets
excited
about
hearing
this
news.
F
I
mean
it's
my
life's
work,
it's
what
I
chose
to
do
and
I've
got
a
production
degree
and
I've
got
a
degree
in
underground,
mind
safety.
F
So
it's
important
to
me
to
hear
what
you
have
to
say
today,
and
I
was
also
a
prosecutor
for
the
cabinet
and
they've
got
a
special
place
in
my
heart
and
they're,
the
first
ones
to
cut
on
the
block,
usually
across
the
board
when
we
do
it
not
just
in
mind
safety,
but
I
feel
compelled
to
say
that
too,
and
they
do
they
do
a
good
job
with
everything
in
their
purview.
F
But
the
question
that
I
have
is
more
of
a
labor
issue
and,
and
I'm
still
in
east
kentucky
practice
law
all
over
east
kentucky
and-
and
I
know
the
the
hiring
problems
that
employers
are
having.
I
hear
them
every
day,
whether
it's
in
hazard
pipeline
or
up
home
in
northeast
kentucky.
How
are
we
on
certifications
to
supply
the
industry
with
minors
that
can
pass
a
drug
test
and
what's
the
labor
pool
looking
like
at
present
time
and
if
there's
expansions
in
the
future,
do
you
have
any
insight
at
all?
D
We're
having
a
problem
with
hiring
inexperienced
miners,
what
the
problem
is
is
getting
their
certifications,
they're,
just
a
need
for
them.
The
coal
we
know,
as
we
all
know,
coast
picked
up
a
little
bit
right
now
and
we
can't
get
any
experience.
Finders.
F
Pursued
other
employment
options,
and
I
was
just
wondering
you
know
what
I
guess
we
can
do
or
what
y'all
can
do
to
help
the
companies
fill
that
void
and
and
because
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
problem.
If
we
have
many
more
openings.
M
Thank
you,
senator
webb,
as
you
saw
from
those
numbers,
we
have
picked
up
some
new
inexperienced
miners.
We
are
bringing
back
to
works
quite
a
few
miners
who
have
been
laid
off
or
fired.
So
we
hope
that
that
will
continue.
I
will
say
we
provide
a
lot
of
training
and
certification,
so
we
are
there.
We
do
it
virtually
and
in
person
for
those
persons
that
that
need
it.
M
We
are
there
for
them.
I
will
say
that
you
know
my.
My
folks
are
back
in
martin
county.
One
of
them
got
a
job
at
the
prison,
and
but
he
was
amazed
that
he
was
in
a
room
where
they
were
asked.
They
were
told
if
you
think
you're
not
going
to
pass
the
drug
test,
you
might
as
well
walk
out.
40
or
41
people
walked
out.
M
F
If
I
just
have
one
more,
mr
chairman,
martin
county,
is
where
I
have
my
underground
experience
too
and
secondly,
I
guess
does
a
cabinet
have-
and
I
think
you've
addressed
it
somewhat,
but
the
employee
compliment
at
this
time
to
accommodate
where
we
are
and
going
forward
and
not
just
for
mine
safety
specialists.
F
I'm
talking
you
know,
you've
got
permits,
you've
got
water,
you've
got
lawyers,
I
mean
everything
ties
into
that
one:
coal,
mine
opening
up
and-
and
what
is
your
compliment
at
this
time
and
what
I
assume
there'll
be
an
additional
budget.
Ask
that's
the
a
remembering
me,
I'm
sorry,
but
well.
M
Thank
you
very
much.
Yes,
not
so
much
a
budget
ask,
but
to
just
take
that
prohibition
away
so
that
we
can
hire
the
the
few
more
that
we
do
need.
It
probably
won't
be
very
many
more
that
we'll
need
to
to
get
back
up
to
where
we
have
and
our
most
critical
need
is
those
mind.
Rescue
teams
but
you're
right,
smacker,
the
surface,
mind,
control,
reclamation
act
of
1977
is
a
complete
beginning
to
end
type
of
system.
M
At
the
very
beginning
you
have
to
have
the
permitting
that
has
to
be
noticed,
etc,
so
that
citizens
know
what
kind
of
mind
is
going
to
be
put
in
once
the
mind
begins
to
operate.
Hopefully,
we've
got
everything
environmentally
sound
through
the
permits.
We
have
the
inspectors
at
our
division
of
mind,
reclamation
and
enforcement,
who
go
there
to
make
sure
that
the
environment
is
being
treated
properly
under
the
per
meeting
that
it
has
so
then
concomitantly,
the
division
of
mine
safety
also
has
people
who
does
the
inspections.
M
We
also
have
people
in
the
offices,
the
branch
offices
who
make
sure
that
the
the
drug
program
works
those
things.
Unfortunately,
we
do
have
people
that
are
involved
in
drugs
and
they
may
lose
their
certifications,
but
we
give
them
a
chance
to
keep
those
certifications
if
they
go
on
probation.
So
on
both
sides.
We
work
with
that.
M
At
the
end
of
the
the
life
of
the
mind
we
have
our
division
of
abandoned
mine
lands,
that's
critical
to
us,
because
not
only
do
they
use
bond
monies
to
reclaim,
they
also
use
the
economic,
economic,
revitalization
funds
that
congressman
hal
rogers
has
made
available
the
last
six
years,
so
they
have
a
big
big
role
too.
They
their
budget
has
gone
down.
M
We're
looking
we're
hoping
that
we'll
have
aml
reauthorization
at
the
federal
level
this
year,
and
perhaps
some
other
money
may
come
from
the
infrastructure
bills
and
or
some
other
bills
like
reclaim,
which
is
one
that
is
a
has
an
economic
revitalization
piece
to
it.
That
would
right
now
we
are
with
our
division
of
abandoned
mine
lands,
we're
thinking
small
we're
trying
to
do
the
best
we
can
with
the
funds
that
we
have.
So
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
extra
people's
if
we
did
get
an
influx
of
money.
M
Yes,
we
would
have
to
have
some
additional
people
so
trying
to
think,
though.
Oh
we
also
have
the
kentucky
reclamation
guarantee
fund
they're,
the
ones
who
require
additional
bonding
so
that
if
a
mine
company,
a
permit,
does
get
forfeited
and
the
bond
revoked,
we
have
enough
money
to
cover
that
so
right
now
we
have
about
52
million
dollars
that
we
can
use.
But
it's
not.
It
sounds
like
a
lot
of
money.
It's
not!
M
We
have
just
gone
through
the
black
jewel
and
revelation,
and
some
other
bankruptcies
that
are
going
to
leave
us
with
a
large
hole
in
our
pocket,
but
we're
working
hard
to
make
that
hole
as
small
as
possible,
working
with
the
the
sureties
who
have
guaranteed
that
money,
we're
working
within
not
just
our
department
for
natural
resources,
but
our
department
for
environmental
protection,
the
division
of
water,
air
quality,
waste
management.
All
of
those
divisions
are
just
important
to
the
entire
process.
So
pardon
me
send
it
away
if
I've
gone
long.
F
A
You
I
want
to
call
on
my
co-chair
senator
smith,
who
was
not
feeling
well
today
and
but
I
think
he
is
joining
us
on
zoom
co-chair
smith.
Are
you
there?
Yes
can.
K
Very
good,
well,
I
have
to
say
I
apologize.
I
have
been
teaching
a
class
voluntarily
donating
the
salary
back
to
the
school
system
and
I
think
one
of
the
students
gave
me
strap.
So
it
just
shows
you
that
you
know
it's
still
out
there.
I
was
when
I
went
to
get
swabbed
I
was
you
know,
just
glad
that
it
wasn't
coded
anymore,
nothing's
simple,
but
I
do
apologize
for
not
being
there
today,
but
I
will
say
that
this
isn't
the
first
time
that
we're
gonna
have
you
all
with
us.
K
There's
a
lot
of
other
stuff
we're
working
on
some
of
the
stuff.
I
think
you
guys
are
aware
of,
and
we
will
have
a
meeting
to
address
some
of
that
in
the
future.
So
if
you've
got
other
questions
for
our
members
that
are
that
are
sitting
there,
thinking
you've
got
questions,
but
we
know
we're
running
late
on
time.
You'll
have
plenty
of
time.
K
My
questions
I
have
three
really
one
is
how
the
bankruptcies
that
you
all
just
talked
about
how
many
of
those
bankruptcies
have
actually
reopened
or
have
come
back
into
the
system
or
even
have
the
potential
coming
back
in
the
system
and
the
new
jobs.
You
are
talking
about
how
the
and
there
is
there's
a
there's,
a
tick
up
in
mining.
K
I
was
just
telling
jenna
gooch
and
a
few
friends
of
ours
last
week
at
dinner
that
we're
going
to
see
a
little
bit
of
a
micro
boom
in
coal
and
our
our
state
is
poised
to
really
take
a
good
opportunity
of
this.
If
we
were
to
get
a
place
to
be
able
to
get
our
stuff
timely,
but
out
of
the
new
jobs
you
all
talked
about,
what
does
that
mean
in
tonnage?
We
start
talking
about
jobs
and
coal
mining.
K
Give
me
an
idea
what
we're
talking
about
as
far
as
tonnage,
because
that
means
the
dollars
for
coal
severance
to
make
the
department
of
local
government
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
begin
to
spin
and
affect
a
lot
of
the
members
in
the
room
that
may
not
be
in
tall
areas.
So
two
just
two
of
the
quick
questions,
the
other
one
is
going
to
probably
take
a
little
bit
longer,
so
I
may
hold
that
over
for
the
next
meeting,
but
I
yield
back
to
coach
ianna
gooch.
Thank
you.
D
Sorry
about
that
have
a
little
technical
difficulties
there.
I,
I
guess
one
thing
I
have
concerned
as
far
as
some
of
the
cold
bankruptcies
and
I
think,
you've
hit
on
this
a
little
bit.
Is
there
sufficient
bonding
capacity
to
protect
the
commonwealth's
interest
with
respect
to
the
bankruptcies
that
we
are
aware
of
out
there.
M
Let
me
just
go
ahead
and
say:
the
kentucky
reclamation
guaranty
fund
has
yearly
conducted
an
actuarial
analysis
of
the
the
fund
and
what
they
do
is
they
go
through
sort
of
a
stress
test?
What
would
happen
if
we
had
a
large
another
large
bankruptcy
and
we
have
an
actuarial
group
that
looks
at
that
sees
how
I
mean
it's
my
new.
M
It
goes
down
to
my
newest
detail
and
so
far
everything
has
come
back
that
the
krg
has
krgf
has
sufficient
funds
to
weather
the
worst
scenario
that
we've
been
able
to
come
up
with.
Now
that
does
not
mean
that
it,
it
won't,
suffer
some
losses.
M
When
you
talk
about
the
black
jewel
on
the
revelation
bankruptcy,
those
those
are
huge.
We've
had
several
others.
Ember
energy
and
some
of
those
mines
have
looked
like
they're
going
to
be
transferred,
but
others
may
not.
So
we
are
working
closely
with
those
sureties
to
make
sure
that
they
do
what
they
can.
They
don't
want
to
lose
their
bond
money,
so
they're
going
to
try
to
do
reclamation.
M
As
a
matter
of
fact,
we
have
been
working
very
closely
with
them
and
we
hope
to
continue
to
do
so,
because
the
krgf
is
not
the
first
dollar.
It's.
It's
got
to
be
protected
so
that
it's
the
last
dollar,
but
it's
not
all
of
those
senator
wheeler
those
mines
that
have
gone
bankrupt.
M
M
We
will
also
be
getting
new
money,
new
tonnage
fees,
etc
into
the
krgf
etcetera
that
will
help
us
continue
to
fund
this.
It's
going
to
be
a
long-term
project.
D
Mr
chairman,
a
brief
follow-up
sure
might
go
ahead
and
what
strategies
are
you
looking
at
utilizing
in
order
to
shore
up?
I
guess
the
the
reclamation
funds
I
mean.
Obviously
I
think
we
would
all
agree,
there's
a
there's,
a
line,
a
fine
line
that
needs
to
be
walked
as
far
as
making
sure
these
obligations
are
adequately
funded
about
the
same
time,
you
know
making
sure
that
these
these
precious
jobs
and
and
the
coal
fields
are
protected
and
allowing
this
industry
to
continue
to
function
in
an
adequate
way.
M
Senator
wheeler
that
I
wish
I
could
tell
you,
but
we
are
negotiations
with
those
sureties
and
until
we
get
some
more
solid
agreements,
we
have
not
got
the
agreement
right
now
so
and
we're
just
talking
about
the
black
jewel
revelation.
First,
we've
got
several
others
bankruptcies
that
we're
going
to
be
working
on
as
well.
M
As
I
said,
the
the
stress
test
has
come
back
from
the
actuarial,
that
that
krgf
is
sound
and
we
have
done
other
things
like
what,
if
the
charities
themselves
were
to
take
a
big
hit
and
the
actuarial
has
come
back
to
us
and
and
again
that
stress
test
was
passed
as
well.
There's
a
lot
of
reinsurance
among
all
of
the
insurers,
so
we
feel
very
solidly
that
the
krgf
is
sound.
M
A
You
very
much,
mr
chairman.
Okay,
let
me
apologize
to
senator
smith.
I
think
I
had
a
little
coughing
spell
and
when
he
was
asking
some
questions-
and
I
went
to
the
next
presenter-
and
I'm
not
sure
I
gave
you,
gentlemen,
the
time
to
answer
senator
smith's
question.
I
think
he
had
one
question
about
possible
production
from
the
list
of
mines
that
you
mentioned,
and
the
number
of
jobs.
H
I
will
say,
mr
chairman,
that
we
do
have
the
current
production
numbers
not
necessarily
tied
specifically
to
those
permits,
but
we
do
have
current
production
numbers
that
are
on
our
website
now
in
the
office
of
energy
policy,
who
publishes
the
state's
coal
report
every
year,
and
so
those
numbers
are
updated
there
too,
to
the
current
information
that
we
have
so.
H
A
Okay,
thank
you
and
commissioner,
are
there
any
reopened
minds
that
have
come
out
of
bankruptcy
or.
M
Pardon
me
chairman,
I
I
can't
think
of
any
that
have
actually
started
mining
again.
I
think
there
are
some
in
east
kentucky
that
have
have,
but
I
would
have
to
check
on
that
and
get
back
to
you.
Okay,
pardon
me
for
my
my
inability
to
do.
A
A
Smith:
okay,
senator
I
mean
representative
no.
K
Yeah
I
apologize
the
the
signal
here
is
getting
choppy,
but
we
could
we've
been
corresponding
mr
sloane
and
I
have,
but
we
can.
I
know:
we've
tagged,
chama
gucci
and
a
few
others
there's
a
few
things.
I've
got
some
questions
that
I
will
send
for
us
to
be
able
to
respond
but,
like
I
said,
we're
going
to
have
another
meeting
to
address
some
more
specifics.
K
So
people
feel
like
they've
got
questions
today
that
you
want
to
ask
but
you're
afraid,
you've
been
running
out
of
time,
just
write
them
down,
because
we
will
we're
going
to
do
a
deep
dive
into
making
sure
that
we
have
the
most
efficient
process
and
procedures
into
place
to
help
these
mining
companies
and
other
companies
be
able
to
get
their
permits
and
get
booths
on
the
ground,
get
the
jobs
they
want
to
have
turned
and
moving
quickly.
So,
thanks
again
for
putting
up
with
the
remote
call.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
commissioner.
Sloan.
Do
you
know
how
many
states
are
produced
producers
of
coal?
You
know,
we
know.
There's
west
virginia
wyoming
kentucky.
M
Mining
compact
commission
that
we're
a
member
of
right
now,
I
think,
we're
down
to
about
22
states
that
have
some.
You
would
not
have
believed
it,
but
indiana
now
ranks
above
us
in
the
production
of
coal.
That's
that's
insulting!
I.
A
Understand
I
agree,
let
me
ask
you
this.
Of
course,
all
of
those
states
imsa
regulates
the
coal
mining
in
those
in
those
states.
How
many
of
those
states
actually
have
their
own
mind
safety
program,
similar
to
what
kentucky
does
obviously.
M
I
can't
give
you
a
straight
number,
but
obviously
locally
indiana
does
west
virginia
does
tennessee
is
currently
an
msc,
a
pardon
me
an
ms
osm
state
and
they
will
be
getting
what's
called
primacy
over
their
oh,
their
their
smackrap
program
in
the
very
near
future.
So
they're
excited
about
that.
They
don't
have
a
lot
of
production,
but
they
hope
that
it
will
happen
very
soon.
M
A
Yeah,
I
think
I
think
the
real
answer
to
the
question
is
probably
no
none
to
have
a
program
like
kentucky
does,
and
so
that's
just
the
the
reality.
We
have
a
couple
more
questions.
Parente
did
you
get
to
ask
your
question
representative?
Go
ahead.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
represent
the
15th
district,
which
is
all
of
millenberg
county
and
southeast
hopkins
and
masseville.
Community
college
is
in
gooch's
district
charges
district,
but
I
have
been,
they
have
mind
training
and
they
also
have
the
mine
safety
rescue
school
and
I
have
been
not
been
a
minor.
I've
been
on
the
rack
and
gone
into
the
fire,
so
it's
pretty
impressive
and
I,
when
you
say
that
you're
losing
those
mine
inspectors
or
the
nazi
inspectors,
but
the
safety
specialist
from
western
kentucky.
B
That
gets
my
attention
and
I
will
advocate
to
petrie
and
others
about
trying
to
remove
the
prohibition,
especially
since
there's
not
a
budget
ass.
I
was
also
the
only
only
co-sponsor
of
the
bill
that
allowed
those
three
behavior-based
inspections,
while
still
being
able
to
note
whether
there's
a
electrical
issue
or
a
bolt
issue
or
whatever,
and
quickly
found
out
why.
I
was
the
only
co-sponsor
because
I
got
criticized
for
trying
to
decrease
my
safety
so
anyway.
B
M
We
have
had
that
discussion
internally.
We
think
it's
most
of
it
is
being
exported.
B
G
D
This
is
any,
they
call
it
an
inexperienced
minor,
which
is
referred
to
as
a
green
hat,
and
what
they
have
to
do
is
they
have
to
go
through
a
40
hour
class
in
class
training
for
40
hours.
Then
they
have
to.
They
also
have
to
pass
a
drug
test
before
that
certification
is
a
gave
to
them.
Then
they'll
have
to
go
off
to
the
mines
they
have
to
perform.
45
days
in-house
training,
we'll
say
you're
in
mind.
Training
before
they're
actually
gave
that
card
to
okay.
G
The
second
question
I
have
is
I'm
a
representative
over
the
over
in
the
91st
district,
which
is
breast
breath
esther
lee
and
owlsley,
and
a
little
bit
of
madison
you
have
on
the
the
surface
mining.
G
I
don't
know
if
you
can
kind
of
clear
this
up
with
me
on
the
sturgeon
mining
that
there
was
only
zero
inexperienced
miners
going
to
be
hired,
and
so
I
didn't
know
if
you
can
go
through
on
on
that
for
me
and
just
tell
me
what
what
exactly
mine
represent,
that
that
I'm
going
to
be
representing
for
breath
and
owlsley,
which
I
have
some
state
representatives
with
me
and
senators.
That's
in
the
coal
mining
industry
over
there
on
in
eastern
kentucky.
So
we're
very
excited
about
this.
A
G
M
Pardon
me,
are,
you,
are
these
surface
mines
that
you're
referring
to
were
on
the
ground.
G
Well,
this
one's
surface,
we
don't
have
none
underground.
G
M
Okay,
I'm
looking
for
that
sturgeon
mining
listing!
Pardon
me.
While
we
look
for
that
there,
it
is
okay,
so.
M
G
That
there's
no
inexperienced
miners
going
to
be
hired
for
them
jobs,
none.
G
L
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I've
got
a
couple
questions
if
you
will
allow
please
I'm
just
kind
of
I'm
trying
to
kind
of
make
a
few
notes.
Do
you
all
know
of
any
other
states
that
only
use
the
federal
inspectors?
Are
there
any
states
that.
L
M
L
I
do
think
there
are
some
states
that
only
have
federal
inspectors-
I
don't
I'm
not
saying
they
don't
have
other
categories,
whether
it
be
training
or
or
the
rescue
teams
or
whatever
it
may
be,
but
as
far
as
the
inspector
side
of
it
and
then
you
know
what
you've
provided
us
today
on
the
license
mines
in
2014,
there
were
365
mines,
yes
ma'am
and
in
2020
there's
157.
M
L
And
then
also
I
mean
and
I'll
I'll
be
very
blatantly
and
open
on
representative
hatton
has
been
very
vocal
on
the
concern
of
this
specific
item
and
we've
had
many
conversations
on
that.
I
do
have
a
concern
of
adding
inspectors.
Whenever
we've,
you
know
less
than
half
of
the
mines
that
we
have,
but
yet
we've
still
got
inspectors
and
like
it's
been
referenced
already,
they
may
be
an
issue
where,
where
are
these
inspectors
going?
M
Let
me
say
that
again:
we
only
have
to
do
so.
Many
inspections
per
year,
usually
two
complete
inspections,
plus
the
electrical
plus
two
behavior-based.
So
we're
not
going
to
add
on
we're
not
just
going
to
go
back
to
the
mines,
because
we've
got
nothing
to
do.
We
have
plenty
to
do
with
the
number
of
inspectors
that
we
do
have,
especially
as
it
goes
to
training,
but
critically
we
need
those
mine
safety
inspectors
to
crew
them.
The
mine
rescue
teams,
or
there
will
be
no
coverage
well.
L
The
mine
rescue,
I
think,
is
very
important.
One
of
the
complaints
that
I
have
had
in
my
area
from
you
know
the
employers.
As
far
as
the
training.
These
miners
are
having
to
take
a
day
off
or
more
so
that
has
less
people
on
their
production
rows
and
things
like
that
on
the
training
we
want
to
make
sure
that
they
have
the
training.
L
There
is
no
one
on
this
committee
or
in
this
general
assembly
that
wants
our
minors
to
be
safer
than
myself
equal
to
or
more
so
than
everyone
on
this
committee,
but
we
also
need
to
make
sure
that
the
training
has
value
to
it
and
you
reference
some
of
the
larger
mines
compared
to
east
kentucky.
We
do
have
a
lot
more
that
are
smaller,
that
may
not
have
their
rescue
teams.
We
are
fortunate
in
our
area
that
our
rescue
teams
are
are
very
good.
L
The
reference
has
been
directly
from
minors,
not
management,
but
minors
in
the
event
that
they
actually
have
an
accident
that
rescue
team.
They
would
prefer
that
it
be
active
minors
that
are
on
those
rescue
teams
than
state
employees,
no
disrespect
to
state
employees,
but
they
are
not
in
the
habit
of
being
underground
every
single
day
and
seeing
the
things
that
these
fellas
and
ladies,
are
seeing
on
a
daily
basis.
So
I'm
to
the
question
that
I
have
for
you
all.
M
We
think
we
have
an
excellent
program
and
the
mind
safety
specialist.
As
far
as
training
we
offer,
like,
I
said,
18
different
specialties.
We
do
it
virtually
or
live
at
our
offices.
We
have
even
done
training
at
the
employers
locations
as
well.
So
as
far
as
taking
a
day
off
to
train
you
know,
I'm
an
attorney.
I
have
to
go.
Get
my
cles
every
year
everybo
my
my
daughter's
a
nurse.
She
has
to
get
her
training
every
year.
M
D
I'll
speak
on
training.
I
know
that
they
also
offer
a
training
on
the
weekends
for
these
individuals,
because
I
know
a
lot
of
times.
They'll
work
different
a
lot
of
times.
All
they
have
to
do.
These
companies
is
reach
out
to
the
the
branch
manager.
He'll
have
a
special
class
for
these
individuals.
They
also
offer
it
day
shift
second
shift
training
for
these
individuals
and
now
at
the
law,
the
dms
locations,
the
branch
offices,
they'll,
have
a
trainers,
that's
full-time,
do
nothing
but
training.
That
way.
We
make
sure
these
miners
are
trained.
M
And
and
the
mine
safety
teams
are
required
to
travel
the
mines
that
they
are
responsible
for,
so
they
do
know
those
mines.
M
I
appreciate
that
miners
may
want
to
have
it
a
company
team,
and
that
would
be
great
if
they
could,
but
again
most
of
the
small
minds,
35
or
less
cannot
afford
the
equipment,
the
training,
the
time
off.
If
they're
crunched,
to
do
one
day
of
training
for
themselves,
how
are
they
going
to
do
all
the
additional
training
david?
Can
you
go
over
some
of
the
training
that
my
safety
specialists
have.
D
Said
they
have
to
do
what
they
call
auction
training
and
these
it's
the
same
apparatus
as
a
lot
of
firefighters
wear.
So
it's
basically
the
same
training
as
what
they
take
correct.
They
go
to
they'll,
go
annually
to
every
mines
and
familiarize
theirself
with
each
mines
we'll
go
up
as
a
as
a
group.
They'll
go
toward
the
mines,
go
straight
in
and
come
right
back
out,
they're,
not
there
if
they
ship
production
down
or
anything
like
that,
they're
not
there
to
for
inspect
the
minds.
L
Well
with
that
being
said,
I'll
ask
the
follow-up
question
to
the.
As
far
as
the
mine
rescue
teams,
I
know
western
kentucky.
Some
of
the
companies
have
their
own
as
far
as
how
many
rescue
teams
do
we
have
in
the
state
of
kentucky
and
where
are
they
located.
M
M
No,
we
have
the
madisonville
office
in
western
kentucky.
We
did
have
12
personnel
so
that
we
could
field
two
teams,
unfortunately
we're
now
down
to
10
personnel.
So
we
have
to
borrow
a
couple
of
people
like
david,
the
deputy
commissioner,
the
division
director
to
fill
out
that
second
mine
rescue
team,
because
these
are
people
who
do
have
those
those
level
of
qualifications
that
that
that
is
needed
in
case
of
a
mine
disaster.
M
And
that's,
fortunately,
we
have
the
company
teams
provide
one
of
the
two
required
teams
and
we
provide
the
other
team.
As
I
said,
we
we
try
to
fill
out
that
second
team
with
other
personnel.
Okay,
but
that's
that's
where
we
are
we're
getting
to
down
to
the
nuts
and
bolts.
F
And
I
just
want
to
say
I
was
general
counsel,
the
fourth
largest
producer
in
the
nation.
We
had
operations
in
six
states
and
when
they
hired
me,
they
knew
I
was
a
minor
first
and
we
had
very
few
conflicts
about
safety
and
training
and
it's
very
important.
You
know
and
I'm
very
passionate
about
it.
F
So,
but
when
we
make
decisions
here
that
man
or
woman
is
is
underground
and
they
deserve
the
blood's
on
our
hands.
Folks,
if
something
happens
and
that's
the
way,
we
need
to
continue
to
approach
this
and
training
and
safety
for
our
workforce
in
the
fuel.
F
When
you
go
in
there
to
a
safe
place
and
you're
not
going
to
be
productive
for
the
company,
if
you're
not
feeling
safe
and
you're
not
adequately
trained,
so
these
two
things
go
hand
in
hand.
It
they're
not
at
odds
with
each
other
and
that's
when
we
created
this
legislation
that
we
have
now.
Those
were
all
the
interests
that
came
together
to
do
this.
So
you
know,
somebody's
gonna
have
to
do
a
lot
of
convincing
to
me
to
change
this
thing.
So
I
appreciate
it
and
I
appreciate
the
way
you
enforce
it.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Let
me
say
thank
you
for
your
presentation
today
and
I
I
but
I'd
have
to
say
that
you
know
it's
always
better
to
look
for
positive
things
and-
and
I
will
say
that
you
know
the
the
small
number
of
permit
applications
that
have
been
applied
for
is
a
small
glimmer
of
of
hope.
But
you
know
there
are.
I
see.
A
No,
no
additional
mines
opening
in
west
kentucky
the
county
that
I
live
in
in
webster
you'd
have
to
go
back
into
the
1800s
to
find
no
mining
active
mining
in
webster
county,
and
there
is
none
today,
so
you
know
we.
A
We
just
can't
say
that
this
is
certainly
not
good
news,
but
it's
maybe
a
glimmer
of
hope,
and
but
I'm
really
concerned
that
I
think
that
we
have
people
in
this
country
that
seem
to
be
in
charge
right
now
who
want
to
eliminate
all
mining,
and
that's
there's
no
question
about
that.
That's
that's
happening
and
we
are
going
to
do
everything
we
can
to
make
sure
that
they
cannot
do
that
in
kentucky.
So
with
that
this
meeting's
adjourned.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank.