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A
All
righty,
it
is
noon
we'll
get
started
here,
believe
it
or
not.
This
is
the
15th
meeting
of
the
state
and
local
senate
state
and
local
government
committee,
and
before
we
call
the
role,
senator
thayer
has
a
guest,
and
so
do
I.
B
A
A
I'm
here
and
we
have
a
quorum,
we're
duly
constituted
to
do
business.
We
have
the
privilege
of
having
a
bill
for
both
the
speaker
and
the
speaker
pro
tem,
so
we're
going
to
take
those
to
begin
with.
So
if
mr
speaker
would
like
to
come
up
represent
osborne,
we
will
take
up
house
bill.
10.
D
You,
mr
chairman,
members
of
the
committee,
I'm
david
osborne
here
to
present
house
bill
10
joined
by
speaker
pro
tem
david
mead,.
D
You
know
by
way
of
histories,
as
most
of
you
know,
pre-filing
the
bills
is
kind
of
a
relic
from
when
we
have
biennial
sessions
going
back
to
a
time
when,
when
literally
in
order
to
get
a
a
pre-filed
bill
or
a
copy
of
a
bill,
you
had
to
show
up
at
the
capitol
pay
your
money
to
actually
get
a
printed
hard
copy
of
it
and
in
the
electronic
age
it
it
seems.
You
know
things
have
changed
dramatically,
and
so
it's
maybe
appropriate
to
look
at
this.
D
If
you
actually,
if
you
look
at
the
the
bill,
I
think
it's
on
pages
in
three
and
four
looking
at
the
the
stricken
language
down
at
the
bottom,
you
will
see
that
this,
the
the
idea
of
pre-filing
a
bill
actually
started
with
with
requiring
a
committee
vote
to
to
actually
have
a
pre-filed
bill.
It
would
take
the
majority
of
whichever
body
of
an
interim
joint
committee
to
to
fallow
bill
and
again
that
was
when
we
had
biennial
sessions.
D
It's
been
changed
a
number
of
times
over
the
years,
but
it
is
now,
I
believe,
kind
of
lost
its
its
purpose
and
with
with
the
electronic
age,
people
file
a
prefallow
bill,
and
I
think
that
that
comes
with
some
connotation,
that
it
has
met
an
extra
hurdle
that
it
that's
cleared
some
type
of
vetting
to
establish
it
as
pre-filed
as
opposed
to
what.
What
many
of
us
just
consider
working
documents.
And
so
the
thought
here
is
to
to
change
this
from
the
the
actual
pre-filing
of
bill
to
a
working
bills.
D
Section
it
would
be
public,
it
would
be
at
the
direct.
We
would
direct
legislative
research
commission
to
develop
a
site
that
would
allow
for
working
documents
and
as
opposed
to
the
pre-filing,
which
again,
I
think
it
comes
with
the
in
the
context
that
it
may
be
in
its
final
version
that,
instead
of
it
being
presented
to
the
public
as
having
to
pick
a
side
to
either
declare
you're
for
it
or
against
it.
D
If
it's
a
working
document
it
become,
it
invites
the
public
to
actually
work
on
something
and
it
doesn't
automatically
get
filed
and
introduced
on
day
one.
You
know:
there's
we
we
see
every
every
year
the
the
number
of
committee
subs
that
immediately
come
as
as
pre-file
bills
start
getting
heard,
and
it's
because
they
they
once
they're
pre-filed
they
immediately
get
in
or
they
get
introduced.
D
That
way
on
the
very
first
day
of
session
and
I've
seen
a
lot
of
really
well
intended
and
and
actually
well-considered,
but
maybe
not
completely
vetted
legislation
that
has
kind
of
gotten
derailed,
because
people
are
forced
to
take
that
that
side
early
on
and
it's
hard
to
it's
hard
to
revisit
that
so
that
that's
essentially
what
it
does.
It
allows
at
the
direction
of
the
legislative
research
commission.
D
We
will.
We
will
direct
the
lrc
directors
to
develop
this
new
site
and
process
for
handling,
preferred
working
copies
of
bills
and
that
will
replace
the
the
pre-fouling.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
mr
speaker,
mr
speaker,
pro
tem
welcome
to
the
senate
state
and
local
government
committee.
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
for
bringing
this
bill,
I'm
going
to
be
a
little
more
direct
and
say
that
the
pre-filing
of
bills
is
a
complete
waste
of
time.
People
use
it
to
achieve
political
goals,
to
get
ready
to
run
for
higher
office,
and
I've
been
tired
of
them
for
a
long
time.
It's
a
huge
distraction
and
I'm
really
grateful
to
you
bringing
the
bill
today
and
I
look
forward
to
supporting
it.
A
E
Wheeler,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
would
concur
with
my
colleague
senator
thayer's
comments.
I
mean,
I
think
you
bring
up
a
number
of
valid
points.
I
think
that
you
know
sometimes,
when
you
get
a
pre-file
bill,
it
it
evidences
a
certain
mindset
which
may
not
be
the
case
and
sometimes
causes
people
to
go
into
their
bullpens
prematurely
when
in
many
cases
these
are
merely
a
work
in
progress.
So
I
think
this
this.
E
F
D
As
soon
as
this
is
passed,
we
will
direct
the
the
lrc
director
to
to
develop
the
process.
Okay,.
A
F
I'm
going
to
vote
yes,
I'm
I
like
the
idea
of
the
working
document
and
everything
I
just
want
to
make
sure
it
bothers
me
when
we
vote
for
a
bill
that
half
of
the
it's
written
in
half
of
its
own
faith,
so
I'm
going
in
faith
here.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
A
I
vote
I
and
senate
bill
or
house
bill
10
passes
with
favorable
expression:
nine
zero.
Is
there
a
motion
for
consent
motion
for
consent?
We
have
a
motion
by
senator
wheeler
second
by
senator
mcdaniel
senator
thayer.
D
D
A
G
Thank
mr
chairman,
since
I
was
moral
support
on
that
bill,
I'll
go
ahead
and
present
on
this
one
I
guess,
but
what
we
have
here
is
a
bill
that
is
for
the
auctioneers,
as
as
judy
taylor
joins
me
here,
and
what
we're
doing
in
this
bill.
The
first
thing
is
to
to
create
a
biennial
license.
G
As
you
all
know,
last
couple
years,
with
the
pandemic
going
on,
we
allowed
the
boers
to
move
to
a
biennial
license
and
have
their
renewal
every
two
years,
and
so
the
auctioneers
are
wanting
to
make
that
permanent
on
in
their
board
and
make
it
a
biennial
license
and
move
the
move.
The
license
fee
from
150
to
300,
not
increasing
it,
but
making
sure
that
that's
a
two-year
license
right
now,
it's
150
per
year,
so
they
want
to
move
it
to
300
per
two
years.
G
The
next
thing
is
that
as
an
auctioneer,
we
have
to
carry
a
license:
actual
pocket
card
with
us
as
we're
doing
auctions,
they're
just
saying
that
we're
allowed
to
now
carry
a
digital
license
with
us.
Instead
of
that
pocket
card.
G
The
reason
for
that
is
because
we
have
a
lot
of
folks
right
now
or
it's
starting
to
become
a
problem
where
folks
are
out
there
selling
at
auction
without
a
license,
and
when
they're
asked
to
come
in
to
present
for
the
board
they're
saying
you
have
no
control
over
me,
you
have
no
authority
over
me,
I'm
not
bringing
you
any
documents
and
I'm
not
coming
in
and
what
it's
doing
is
it's
creating
an
issue
that
is
detrimental
to
the
public
because
many
times
at
auctions,
we
we
sell
guns.
G
Sometimes
there's
alcohol
sold,
and
there
is
very,
there-
are
very
strict
laws
when
it
comes
to
doing
that
and
that
we
have
to
abide
by,
and
so
what
we
are
doing
in
this
is
giving
them
that
power
to
be
able
to
bring
them
in
get
their
information
get
their
documentation
if
they
feel
that
it's
necessary.
They
turn
that
over
to
the
proper
authorities,
and
that
is
what
the
bill
does.
Mr
chairman
motion.
A
B
Thank
you.
Can
you
explain
the
subpoena
power
who
is
going
to
do
that?
Is
that
the
board
member?
Do
they
have
a
security
person
aig
or
anything.
G
H
My
vote
and
explain
yes,
you
may
cast
and
I
vote
I
was
gonna
say
if
he's
that
passionate
about
the
issue,
maybe
he
should
read
the
whole
bill
in
his
auctioneer's
cadence
for
us
today.
A
B
My
I
vote
I'm
voting
I,
but
I'm
very
apprehensive
because
of
peanut
par,
that's
a
power
that
I
we
should
not
be
giving
away
lightly
and
I'm
going
to
assume
that
you
did
not
do
that,
because
that's
really
something.
I
think
we
need
to
watch.
F
I'm
going
to
cast-
and
I
vote,
and
I
have
actually
looked
at
the
subpoena
power
issue
in
another
board
bill
and
just
wanted
to
clarify
for
our
colleague
a
lot
of
our
boards
do
have
this
already,
and
I
know
that
there's
a
big
scatter
among
our
state
government
with
boards
everywhere
and
it's
been
a
long-standing
effort
to
try
to
get
them
all
into
one
house
and
they
may
not
be
all
there
yet.
But
that's
the
reason
I
can
vote
eye
for
this.
E
Mr
chairman,
explain
why
I
vote?
Yes,
you
may
yeah,
I
like
this
bill,
it's
about
efficiency,
but
I
think
it
I
actually
kind
of
like
the
subpoena
power,
because
I
think
it
shows
a
organization,
it's
about
accountability,
something
that
I've
really
talked
a
lot
about
lately
in
regards
to
some
other
bills.
So
I
applaud
the
efforts
there
to
make
sure
that
you
know
the
public's
protected.
So
thank
you
for
bringing
this
bill.
Senator
mills.
A
A
Next,
we're
going
to
go
up
to
the
top
of
the
agenda
here
with
senate
bill
1
or
339,
which
is
senator
smith.
I
didn't
see
his
hand
hiding
behind
the
camera
man
and,
while
he's
getting
his
seat,
members
make
sure
you
vote
with
your
mic
on
we've
had
some
issues
with
recording
votes.
Thank
you
all
right,
senator
smith
and
introduce
yourself
and
you
can
the
floor
is
yours.
Mr.
D
Chairman,
I'm
senator
smith-
and
I
appreciate
you
taking
time
with
your
committee
to
hear
this
bill
very
brief
bill.
This
bill
just
simply
says
that
if
you
are
in
a
historical
area-
and
you
are
remodeling
or
redoing
your
house
and
you
decide
to
paint
that
house
one
of
the
pre-approved
colors,
it's
a
color.
A
G
A
A
E
E
One
of
the
water
systems
in
my
district
martin
county
has
in
fact
made
the
national
news
as
an
example
of
a
of
a
failing
system
with
bad
infrastructure,
high
rates
and
a
poor
quality,
and
I,
as
a
person
from
rural
kentucky.
I
just
that's
just
not
acceptable
to
me
so
this
senate,
this
body,
the
the
general
assembly
in
2019
and
2020,
authorized
the
creation
of
a
rural
water
task
force
and
that
met
over
the
interim
for
two
summers
and
senate
bill.
E
Senate
bill
343
is
the
direct
result,
as
I
said
as
they
as
a
result
of
these
task
forces.
It's
supported
by
the
rural
waters.
Association
of
kentucky,
the
league
of
cities
and
caico
essentially
accomplishes
three
things,
each
of
which
will
allow
kentucky
to
maximize
the
benefit
of
more
than
1.5
billion
in
federal
infrastructure
funds
that
were
eligible
to
receive
over
the
next
decade.
E
Second,
the
the
billaments
krs-224a
.011
to
clarify
that
the
water
associations
are
defined
as
governmental
agencies,
which
will
reduce
the
red
tape
and
allow
the
kentucky
infrastructure
authority
to
provide
financial
assistance
directly
to
water
associations,
just
as
they
now
do
for
governmental
agencies.
E
Finally,
after
working
on
the
language
with
the
auditor's
office,
it
allows
us
to
hold
allows
a
hold
automatically
placed
on
cities
for
non-performance
of
required
financial
audits
and
statements
to
be
lifted,
but
only
for
the
purpose
of
receiving
arpa
funds
for
water
and
sewer
projects.
This
would
enable
the
kia
and
the
finance
cabinet
and
give
them
the
ability
to
temporarily
suspend
the
hold
on
these
municipalities
in
order
to
utilize
those
funds
that
may
otherwise
go
unspent.
A
H
H
J
Thank
you
senator
mcdaniels,
for
that
that
question
in
our
earlier
conversations,
you
know
you-
and
I
talked
about
that
very,
very
issue
in
the
original
bill.
It
actually
a
little
broader
than
what
this
this
language
is.
This
language
is
basically
a
compromise
with
the
auditor's
office
to
answer
the
question:
there's
a
process
that's
in
place
now,
right
now
on
the
hold.
As
of
the
last
list
that
I
saw
there's
about
82
lists,
actually
62
actual
cities
that
are
listed
on
that.
That
list
that
have
some
issues.
J
J
It
would
even
could
bleed
over
a
little
bit
into
well,
mainly,
it's
focused
on
the
arpa
funds
now
just
directly
for
that.
So
there
is
accountability
and
follow-up,
and
it's
the
way
I
read
it
is
permissive,
so
kia
and
and
the
finance,
if
they
feel
like
they
need
to
lift
the
hole
to
move
a
project
along.
J
Also,
the
ability
to
lift
the
hold
would
be
if
you
have
a
situation
where
you
have
a
project,
that's
already
taking
place,
and
something
happens
at
that.
The
city
is
in
non-compliance
with
an
audit
requirement.
Then
the
hold
would
be
instituted
where
this
would
allow
kia
those
to
work
with
that
city
and
lift
it.
So
basically
they
would
have
flexibility
during
this
influx
for
a
lack
of
a
better
word
of
the
harp
of
money.
That's
come
in
so.
A
H
Kiss
my
vote
and
explain
yes
guys
for
now,
I'm
going
to
catch
to
no
vote
for
the
audit
reasons
I
mean,
as
we
talked
about
in
my
office,
it's
been
it's
been
a
while
back
that.
That's
that's
a
great
concern
to
me.
If
we
can
do
an
amendment,
pull
that
dude
out
when
it
gets
to
the
floor,
I
can
be
for
it
the
thing
about
arpa
funds.
Is
they
just
have
to
be
obligated
by
24
expended
by
26.?
So
I
mean
to
me:
that's
even
more
of
a
carrot
for
folks
to
really
get
themselves
there.
H
F
I'm
going
to
cast
yes
vote.
I
think
that
there's
reason,
but
I
I
would
support
an
amendment
if
senator
mcdaniel
files
it.
I
would
totally
support
that
because
I
think
he's
right
there's
not
necessarily
as
much
need
to
be
in
a
rush,
as
we
sometimes
feel
like.
We
need
to
be
around
here.
Senator.
J
E
Mr
chairman,
can
I
respond
to
a
couple
of
those
concerns
in
my
and
cast
my
high
vote?
Yes,.
A
E
Senator
mcdaniel,
I
basically
agree
with
you.
I
think
accountability
is
of
paramount
importance
to
me,
but
I
think
that
you
know
I
I
guess
what
I
would
say
is
that
you
know
stopping
the
project,
obviously
is
a
great
incentive
to
get
your
books
in
order,
but
on
the
other
hand,
you
know
there
are
people
with
real
needs,
and
sometimes
the
the
cost
of
stopping
a
project
can
can
actually
increase
the
cost
of
that
project.
I
think
you
still
have
accountability.
This
is
not
saying
that
the
audits
won't
be
done.
A
I
vote
I
and
senate
bill
343
passes
with
favorable
expression
nine
to
one.
Thank
you.
Senator
wheeler
next
is
senator
schroeder's
bill
senate
bill.
2
12..
I
believe
you
have
a
couple
of
guests
with
you,
they'd
like
to
make
their
way
forward
and
we'll
have
a
few
minutes,
and
then
we
also
have
some
folks
that
we
also
have
some
folks
that
want
to
talk
in
opposition
of
212..
Thank.
K
A
K
You
for
accommodating
me,
we
do
have
senate
bill
212
here
today.
As
you
can
see,
it
is
an
act
relating
to
kentucky
educational
savings
plan.
Trust
members
on
the
committee
most
likely
better
known
this
plan
as
the
529
plan
at
its
simplest
form.
What
this
bill
hopes
to
accomplish
is
to
move
administration
of
the
529
plans
to
tr
the
treasurer's
office
and
to
explain
why
this
is
a
good
idea.
We
have
treasure
ball.
L
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I've
long
watched
the
529
program,
I'm
actually
on
the
board
of
kia,
and
I've
often
thought
that
this
was
better
suited
for
the
treasury.
L
I
go
to
nas
meetings,
national
association
of
state,
treasurers
and
other
meetings,
and
it's
usually
in
treasurer's
offices.
I
think
about
59
percent
of
these
programs
are
in
treasurer's
offices
throughout
the
country,
so
the
majority
of
them
are
run
by
that
and
that's
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
One
reason
is
most
of
us
run
our
able
programs
and
that's
the
case
here
in
kentucky,
I
run
the
stable
program,
which
is
the
529a,
so
it
makes
sense
to
have
both
529
programs
together.
L
Also,
most
treasurers
are
the
leading
voices
for
financial
literacy,
and
that
is
the
case
here.
In
kentucky,
I
have
the
financial
empowerment
commission
attached
to
my
office
and
it's
the
perfect
vehicle
to
promote
this
type
of
a
program
so
I'm
well
suited
to
it.
I've
always
thought
it
actually
fits
better
with
me
than
it
does
over
kia.
Kia
has
a
lot
of
other
programs,
and
those
other
programs
really
are
more
of
the
priority,
just
sort
of
something
that
I've
observed
over
the
years.
L
One
anecdotal
example
of
that
is
everyone
in
my
office,
who's
had
a
child.
While
I've
been
in
office,
including
me,
I've
got
two
little
ones.
Everyone
has
been
advised
to
get
their
529
accounts
from
other
states,
and
I
hear
that
from
people
all
the
time,
and
I
think
one
reason
why
that's
the
case.
It's
just
not
been
a
focus
over
at
kia
and
because
of
that,
it's
just
not
it's
just
not
been
emphasized,
and
it's
not
been,
I
think,
managed
to
the
best
of
its
abilities.
It
was
over
the
treasury.
L
I
think
that
I
could
be
more
innovative
and
more
responsive
to
people
as
an
elected
official.
I
think
it
belongs
better
that
way,
and
then
we
could
do
things
more
like
advisor
sold
programs,
direct
sold
programs
right
now
at
kia,
I've
observed
that
it's
mostly
handled
by
the
vendor
a
census.
L
We
actually
asked
the
509
program
last
year
to
co-sponsor
a
segment
of
my
smart
women's
monies
women
financials
conference
last
year,
and
they
had
to
get
approval
from
a
census
before
they
could
do
anything.
So
a
census
has
been
the
one
pretty
much
running
the
show
and
as
far
as
using
any
proceeds
from
the
program,
if
it
was
at
the
treasury,
I
don't
need
any
proceeds,
which
is
a
great
thing.
L
That
means
fees
can
be
lower
for
people,
which
is
a
great
incentive
to
to
use
a
kentucky
program,
as
opposed
to
somebody
else
and
many
other
treasurers.
If
they
have
any
extra
funds,
they
use
it
for
scholarships
and
it's
something
that
I've
long
wanted
to
be
able
to
do
to
offer
more
opportunities
for
people
in
in
a
variety
of
programs
like
that.
So
that
is
a
quick
nutshell
version
of
what
it
is
and
why
I
think
it
fits
better
with
the
treasury.
L
I
do
want
to
do
one
point
of
clarification,
really
quick,
because
this
has
come
up
a
few
times.
The
way
this
is
drafted,
the
kia
board
would
still
be
the
board
overseeing
the
administration
of
it
would
be
at
the
treasury,
but
the
kia
board,
and
that's
just
because
it's
easier
and
simpler
just
to
keep
that
board.
It's
the
same
people
if
we
were
creating
a
brand
new
board
who
would
be
doing
it?
L
People
like
aq,
cpe,
finance,
secretary
treasurer,
kde
appointees,
who
were
dealing
education
and
finance
kia,
would
not
have
a
shared
role
of
responsibility.
They're
they're
two
separate
things:
it
would
just
be
the
same
individuals
around
the
kia
board,
so
that's
come
up
a
few
times
as
people
ask
questions
about
it
and
just
want
to
clarify
that.
So
that
is
a
quick
summary
of
what
this
would
do.
Thank
you.
F
Thank
you.
I
had
a
conversation
with
your
staff
here
last
week
about
this
bill
and
I
was
trying
to
figure
out
the
it
seems
like
to
me.
We
end
up
with
what
we
talked
about
at
least
was
dual
ownership,
so
you
as
a
treasurer.
Well,
actually
let
me
start
with
page
two
administrator
means
the
department
of
the
treasury,
so
that
was
my
first
problem.
I
don't
think
the
department
is,
can
administrate
anything
it'd,
be
the
treasurer
or
or
some
identified.
L
These
types
of
programs
are
usually
run
by
boards
and
we
actually
modeled
this
on
the
kentucky
prepaid
tuition
program,
which
was
a
board
that
was
transformed
the
treasury
to
kia.
So
the
simplest
way
to
do
it
was
just
do
that
same
type
of
a
shift
and
do
it
back
again,
but
it
is
administered
by
the
the
treasury
and
it's
not
unusual
to
be
a
department
of
treasury
being
the
individual
or
the
entity.
That's
administering
it
so
that
exists
in
other
statutes.
L
The
treasury
would
be
the
one
that
would
be
running
in
the
treasury
is
run
by
the
treasurer.
So
that's
how
the
administration
would
go,
but
it's
not
a
two-headed
sword.
It
is
a
board.
Just
like
the
commission.
The
financial
empowerment
commission
has
a
board
and
you
know,
is
attached
to
the
treasury,
so
this
exists
in
a
lot
of
other
statutes
where
you
have
boards
that
do
programs
like
this
and
then
the
administration
is
actually
left
to
a
particular
department
or
agency.
I
hope
that
answers
that
question.
A
Okay,
we
also
have
we
do
have
kia
representatives
here
and,
if
y'all
want
to
clear
out
and
give
them
some
room,
miss
aaron,
claire
and
our
guests.
I
guess
don't
want
to
come
forward.
A
M
And
please
bear
a
bit
with
me
committee.
We
have
reached
the
part
obsession
where
I
am
running
on
dayquil
and
nicorette,
so
I
haven't
testified
against
anything
in
a
long
time.
I
might
be
a
little
rusty,
but
I
wanted
to
give
you
some
highlights
first
off
the
argument
that
the
529
plans
are
run
out
of
treasurer's
office
offices.
M
Majority
is
not
really
true:
alaska,
arizona,
colorado,
delaware,
florida,
georgia,
hawaii,
indiana,
kentucky
louisiana,
maine,
maryland
massachusetts,
minnesota
montana,
new
jersey,
new
mexico,
new
york,
north
carolina,
north
dakota,
ohio,
south
dakota,
utah,
vermont,
virginia
washington
and
wisconsin.
None
of
those
529
plans
are
run
out
of
the
treasurer's
office.
The
argument
that
it
isn't
marketed
very
well
is
actually
not
true.
Lately,
since
we
have
been
using
a
census
as
the
program
manager,
we
are
on
track
to
have
our
best
year
of
account
owner
contributions
in
the
31
year.
M
History
of
the
program
for
the
first
eight
months
of
2022
the
savings
plan.
Trust
is
on
target
to
have
its
third
best
year
of
new
account
generation
in
the
history
of
the
program
for
the
month
of
february,
which
we
just
finished.
The
program
had
its
all-time
high
in
payroll,
deduction
contributions
and
overall
account
owner
amounts,
are
up
15
from
the
last
fiscal
year.
M
So
really,
I
feel
like
this
bill
is
a
solution
looking
for
a
problem,
the
tanglement
with
who
the
what
our
board
does
and
does
not
do,
as
opposed
to
where
the
program
manager
sits,
really
needs
to
be
discussed
with
our
full
board
of
directors
which
we
meet
at
nine
o'clock
tomorrow
morning.
So
I
don't
know
if
david
wants
to
add
anything
or
I'm
really
best
at
answering
pop
questions.
So
I've
got
all
sorts
of
documents
with.
F
So
we
heard
about
other
states
having,
I
guess,
do
they
have
better
offer
or
lower
fees
or
can
you
talk
about?
Are
we
just
barely
getting
off
the
ground
now
in
kentucky
and
so
we'll
get
there
I'll.
M
Tell
I'll
tell
you
why
a
lot
of
people
don't
invest
in
the
kentucky
plan?
It's
because
we
do
not
have
any
tax
incentives,
and
that
is
something
that
I
inherited
as
a
legislative
agenda
item
10
years
ago.
I
have
not
gotten
much
traction.
I
was
always
told
that
revenue
items
needed
to
start
in
the
house,
but
maybe
I'm
wrong.
So
there
is
actually
a
house
bill
house
bill
103
that
would
provide
a
tax
deduction
for
contributions.
M
Five
thousand
filing
single
ten
thousand
filing
jointly,
as
well
as
a
small
employer
tax
credit
for
employees
that
are
depositing
into
an
employees.
529
accounts.
So
that's
something
you
know
I
kind
of
bend
over
backwards.
Making
all
of
your
scholarship
dreams
come
true
during
the
legislative
session,
but
I'd
love
to
talk
more
about
529
accounts,
because
that
is
in
our
our
mission.
You
know,
programming
of
removing
barriers
to
post-secondary
education.
N
I
can
maybe
touch
on
that,
so
there
are
currently
six
states
that
have
a
income
tax
and
do
not
have
a
tax
incentive
for
those
residents.
N
The
programs
that
partner
with
national
firms
like
fidelity,
vanguard
they
market
nationwide
and
kentuckians,
would
if
they
go
online,
looking
for
a
direct
sole
plan
and
they
are
already
invested
in
vanguard,
fidelity
in
their
retirement.
There's
some
historical
data
that
I
can
certainly
gather
for
you.
That
is
something
that
compels
someone
to
open
a
529
from
another
state,
also
financial
advisors.
N
We
offer
a
direct
sole
plan
in
kentucky
and
there
are
a
significant
number
of
financial
advisors
that
sell
and
do
non-kentucky
plans
for
ballot
reasons,
but
that
that's
another
contributing
factor
to
why
that
takes
place.
But
if.
A
H
Yes,
you
may
cast-
and
I
vote
I
remember
talking
to
some
of
the
members
from
the
treasurer's
office
when
they
came
in
and
discussed
this
bill
with
me.
I
opened
these
up
several
years
ago
with
my
children
and
remember,
asking
which
are
the
best
ones
kentucky
never
mentioned
ever,
and
we
set
one
up
through
virginia
and
used
those
up
for
our
children
and
we
use
them
for
for
school
and
for
schooling
here
in
kentucky,
but
that
always
struck
me.
H
So
maybe
it
is
time
for
us
to
start
changing
the
venue
where
this
is
be
done
to
get
again
a
better
look
nationally,
as
people
start
looking
at
investing
in
their
systems
here
in
kentucky.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
F
This
is
a
big
question.
That
really
is
a
lot
bigger.
I
think
the
issue
we
have
is:
where
do
we
draw
the
line
between
the
finance
cabinet
and
the
treasury?
Because
if
you
think
about
their
names,
they're
identical,
we
need
to
figure
out
what
authority
goes
where
and
not
start
splitting
off
piecemeal.
F
I
think
we
need
to
really
be
a
lot
more
comprehensive
about
this,
so
I
kind
of
hesitate
to
just
say:
let's
chip
off
this
one
little
piece
if
we
need
to
move
big
parts
and
does
kia
need
to
be
under
the
treasury,
I
mean
those
are
the
questions
we
need
to
be
asking
and
if
that's
the
case,
then
we
could
actually
keep
all
this
stuff
together
to
have
it
all
piecemeal.
So
I'm
I'm
no
voter.
Now
senator.
C
K
A
I
vote
I
it's
going
to
build
212
passes
with
favorable
expression,
eight
to
two
and
same
shall
pass
on
to
the
senate
floor.
Thank
you
to
both
sides
for
discussing
this
matter.
Then
we
have
three
more
items
and
they're
all
pension
related
and
they
all
have
the
same
sponsor
mr
senator
a
representative,
jerry
miller,
and
if
he
would
like
to
move
forward
we're
going
to
take
up
house
bill
49.
First.
A
A
You,
gentlemen,
the
floor
is
yours.
The
background.
O
For
the
bill
is
the
general
assembly
passed
spiking
provisions
in
2013
they've
been
amended
several
times
originally
designed
to
mitigate
the
impact
of
members
who,
in
the
last
years
of
their
employment,
work
significant
amount
of
voluntary
overtime
in
order
to
boost
their
creditable
comp
on
which
their
pension
is
based.
2018
was
amended
to
create
a
look-back
period
and
limited
spikes
above
10
percent
of
their
five-year
average,
except
in
certain
cases.
O
We
look
back
to
may
of
2000
civil
unrest,
including
demonstrations,
and
writing
caused
mayor
greg
fischer
to
declare
a
state
of
emergency
in
order
lmpd
to
work
mandatory,
12
on
12
off
shifts
and
while
governor
beshear
sent
in
the
national
guard,
he
did
not
declare
a
state
of
emergency
which
would
have
qualified
the
mandatory
overtime
as
an
appropriate
exemption
from
the
spiking
calculation
in
other
areas.
Various
situations,
like
the
tornadoes,
cause
local
officials
to
dictate
mandatory
overtime
for
their
employees
without
the
qualifying
state
of
emergency
declarations.
O
A
A
A
O
Thank
you,
as
provided
by
state
law,
our
state
administrator
excuse.
O
It's
adopted,
as
provided
by
state
law,
our
state
administered
retirement
systems
are
required
to
undergo,
what's
called
an
actuarial
experience
study
a
few
years
ago.
The
general
assembly
did
the
good
work
and
created
a
standardized
approach
to
actuary
reporting
by
the
systems
which
included
requiring
each
system
to
perform
an
actuarial
experience
study,
at
least
once
every
five
years,
and
to
standardize
reporting
to
the
public,
including
the
general
assembly.
O
Those
assumptions
fall
into
two
buckets
one
economic
assumptions
and
second
demographic
assumptions,
and
it
is
the
demographic
assumptions
that
are
very
costly.
They
require
an
actuary,
a
lot
of
data
again
very
costly
in
since
2016
we've
seen
some
relatively
large
changes
in
both
the
economic
and
demographic
assumptions
in
our
largest
state
systems
requiring
immediate
action
on
the
budget
side
bill
before
you.
Attempts
to
smooth
any
future
large
impacts
by
having
the
economic
assumptions
reviewed
by
experienced
study
once
every
two
years
for
financial,
while
retaining
the
five-year
review
for
demographic
assumptions
again.
O
That
is
the
very
costly
element
of
that.
The
every
two
years
is
to
put
it
on
the
same
cycle
as
our
budget.
Two-Thirds
of
the
impact
that
we've
seen
over
the
last
several
actuarial
adjustments
have
come
from
the
financial
assumption
changes
proposed.
Changes
in
this
bill
will
not
affect
the
current
biennium,
but
will
impact
fiscal
year
2024
and
beyond.
O
H
H
H
It
is
believed
in,
and
there
were
representations
made
at
that
point
in
time
that,
via
later
legislative
change
that
occurred
prior
to
their
ability
to
actually
actually
enter
into
employment
in
the
commonwealth,
because
they
were
still
finishing
up,
their
engineering
education
in
essence
retroactively
changed
representations
made
to
these
folks
when
they
entered
into
their
engineering
education.
H
The
belief
is
it'll
affect
somewhere
between
six
and
eight
total
people,
but
it's
just
a
a
kind
of
a
fairness.
Cleanup
issue
and
you'll
see
there
is
a
note
from
kppa
that
staff
is
distributed
that
basically
acknowledges
the
the
fairly
negligible
impact
of
this
change.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
Representative
miller,
these
most
of
these
changes
were
brought
about,
or
suggestions
of
the
ppob
board.
Is
that
correct.
A
Good
any
questions
for
representative
miller,
if
not
emotion,
will
be
in
order,
so
I
moved.
We
have
a
motion
from
senator
senator
alvarado
have
a
second
second
from
senator
storm.
Madam
clerk,
please
call
the
road.
C
C
A
Vote
I
house
bill
776
is
passes
with
favorable
expression
10
to
zero.
We
also
have
a
title
amendment.
Could
I
have
a
motion
on
the
title
amendment?
We
have
a
motion
from
senator
schroeder,
a
second
from
senator
alvarado
on
the
title
amendment
all
in
favor
say
aye,
very
good.
Is
there
any
interest
on
consent
motion.
B
A
A
motion
for
consent
from
senator
thayer,
second
from
senator
mcdaniel,
all
in
favor,
say
aye
any
opposed.
This
bill
moves
to
our
consent,
calendar
and
then
finally,
represent
miller,
has
house
bill
297,
which
is
another
pension
bill.
I
will
allow
him
to
discuss
the
first
part
of
the
bill
and
then
ms
black
hans,
will
explain
the
second
part
of
the
or
the
committee
sub
that
I've
offered.
Okay.
O
O
They
have
little
to
no
fiscal
impact.
Housekeeping
bills
typically
do
not
blaze
new
policy,
ground
and,
typically
past
policy
disputes
are
not
included
in
them.
So
basically
the
the
essence
of
the
bill,
the
heart
of
the
bill.
Is
it
clarifies
language,
it
adds
definitions,
administrative
changes
to
facilitate
disability
retirement
issues,
section
15
reflects
changes
necessitated
by
the
decision
of
the
federal
sixth
circuit
court,
and
finally,
it
has
an
emergency
clause
due
to
the
to
that
court
ruling.
O
Section
two
does
have
some
policy
changes
and
revises
some
issues
that
the
have
been
left
unsettled
over
the
last
couple
of
years
and
I'd
like
to
ask
ms
block
hans
if
she
would
come
to
the
table.
O
A
Yourself
miss
miss
carroll
if
you'd
like
to
address
the
committee
sub
that
was
offered
here.
P
Briana
carroll,
director
of
public
affairs,
for
the
kentucky
league
of
cities,
this
language
we
worked
with
senator
higdon
and
several
others,
including
the
sponsor.
A
Okay
and
then
it
also
it
in.
P
P
You
want
to
go
ahead,
okay,
it
also
provides
it
clarifies
and
confirms
that
the
assets
in
the
pension,
trust
funds
and
the
health
insurance
trust
funds
are
attributed
properly
based
on
the
members
and
the
systems
with
no
crossover
benefits
when
they
are
paid.
So
this
is
supported
by
the
cers
members
of
the
coalition
as
well.
Yes,.
O
There
was
a
little
consternate
or
little
differences
between
house
and
senate
versions
the
when
these
separation
bills
were
originally
passed,
and
I
think
it's
it's
appropriate.
That
senate
is
the
one
that
weighs
in
last
on
them.
A
We
I
was,
I
was
personally
in
a
room
of
about
15
or
16
people
discussing
this
committee
sub,
so
it
is,
it
has
been
discussed.
So
is
there
a
motion
on
the
committee
sub?
We
have
a
motion
from
senator
wheeler.
Second,
from
senator
alvarado
on
the
committee
sub.
All
in
favor
of
adopting
the
committee
sub
say
aye
any
opposed
all
right
now.
The
before
us
is
the
bill
as
sub,
and
we
have
a
question
from
senator
southworth.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
actually
have
two
questions
to
start
with
and
being
189
pages.
I
just
didn't
get
stuck
past
here.
Last
night
I
tried
again
this
morning.
I
can't
get
past
it
page
14
we
have.
The
public
pension
authority
is
adopting
a
written
salary
and
classification
plan
fixing
a
range
of
compensation,
written
terms
of
employment
for
any
of
the
unclassified
employees
and
other
right
before
that.
It
was
saying
on
page
13.
F
O
Southworth,
if
you
don't
mind,
I
did
not
have
a
copy
of
the
sub,
so
I'm
going
to
ask
miss
carroll
to
help
me
out
on
this.
F
Would
you
give
me
the
reference
again
page,
13
and
14
of
the
sub
section
we're
talking
about
unclassified
positions,
the
kppa
and
personnel
having
to
prove
before
personnel
can
move
forward?
The
other
main
question
I
had
was
on
page
28,
where
we're
saying
the
testimonial
statements
of
the
person
applying
for
disability
retirement
does
not
qualify
as
objective
medical
evidence.
So
those
are
the
two
issues
I'd
like
to
hear
to
me.
This
is
more
than
just
housekeeping.
F
O
P
I
can
answer
the
first
one
as
far
as
the
approval
of
the
board
for
the
were
you
asking
specifically
for
the
unclassified
employees
for
the
investment.
Yes
well,.
F
P
Okay,
so
specifically
to
one
those
are
removing
the
investment
employees
out
from
18a.
That
has
been
long
discussed
from
during
the
public
pension
oversight
board.
There
are
there,
there
is.
There
are
restrictions
right
now
for
salaries,
and
there
are.
There
are
concerns
that
we
are.
We
are
struggling
to
maintain
employees
at
the
kentucky
public
pensions
authority
because
we
can't
compete.
There
are
restrictions
for
the
for
the
salaries,
and
so
I
can
let
mr
eager
speak
to
that.
I
So
my
name
is
michael
board:
I'm
the
executive
director
of
the
office
of
legal
services
at
the
kentucky
public
pensions
authority,
and
so
I
will
echo
what
that
what
was
said
there
about
the
the
sections
senator
southworth
identified
there
when
it
comes
to
our
office
of
investments
being
competitive
in
the
job
market
is
difficult.
With
the
sat
when
we're
constrained
by
the
confines
of
chapter
18a
and
the
salaries
we
can
pay.
I
So
the
sections
there
are
designed
to
give
us
the
flexibility
and
the
opportunity
to
be
competitive
and
hire
the
qualified
people,
we
need
to
run
our
office
of
investments
without
those
salary
constraints,
and
so
that's
what
those
positions
are
designed
to
do
and
it
requires
the
board
to
approve
the
salary
ban.
Salary
ranges
for
those
positions
and.
I
O
P
That
was
something
that
was
important
for
the
the
members
of
cers,
especially
to
make
sure
that
there
was
definitely
some
oversight
from
the
board
perspective
and
not
just
a
staff.
I
And
just
as
another
point
on
that,
this
will
enable
us
to
also
bring
in
more
of
our
asset
management
in-house
when
we
hire
this
type
of
talent
and
management,
talent
in-house
which
will
cut
down
on
the
management
fees
we're
paying.
O
And
and
the
other
question
about
the
other
question
about
objective
medical
evidence
I'll
allow
mr
board
to
comment
on
it,
but
essentially
it's
just
the
the
testimony
of
an
individual
is
not
medical
evidence,
but
why
don't
you
expand
on
that.
I
I
That
comes
from
that,
but
it's
from
a
court
case
in
which
the
testimony
of
an
individual
who
was
testifying
before
a
hearing
officer
was
basically
given
the
same
weight
as
objective
medical
evidence
and
objective
medical
evidence
is
a
death
is
defined
by
statute
of
what
that
is,
and
the
testimony
of
an
individual
who
is
not
a
doctor
who
is
actually
the
member
affected
by
the
decision
was
given
equal
weight
to
that
objective,
medical
evidence
and
so
we're
just
trying
to
clean
up
that
definition.
A
E
Wheeler,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
want
to
thank
my
colleague,
senator
southworth,
to
bring
this
up
because
I
have
done
a
few
retirement
disability
cases
in
front
of
a
hearing
officer
before
and
the
mcmanus
case
has
become
problematic
and
I
can-
and
I'm
not
I
mean
most
of
this
bill-
I'm
99.9
percent
okay
with,
but
I
would
consider
this
a
change
and
I
won't
belabor
the
whole
case,
but
it
based
on
one
single
statement
in
a
medical
record,
a
pre-existing
application
was
made-
and
I
guess
the
mcmanus
case
at
that
point
shifts
the
burden
to
the
claimant,
to
come
forward
with
quote-unquote,
objective
medical
evidence
to
disprove
that
pre-existing
allegation.
E
Well,
the
problem
was
she'd,
never
gone
to
the
doctor
before
and-
and
you
know
there
wasn't
any
record
out
there
that
we
were
able
to
come
up
with
and
and
you
know
that
that
created
a
problem
in
the
case,
so
I
mean
the
testimony.
What
in
the
hearing
officer
believed
the
testimony,
so
I
I
do
have
a
little
bit
of
an
issue
with
that.
Would
you
all
possibly
be
receptive
to
a
floor
amendment
removing
that
section,
because
I
mean
it
can't
have
substantive
effects
in
certain
certain
people's
cases,
and
I
have
practiced
these
before.
O
I
think
kppa
would
be
happy
to
talk
to
you
about
it.
I
that's
within
euros
rules.
I
Yeah
I
just
this
is
the
this
was
not
the
mcmanus
case.
This
was
from
the
elder
case,
okay,
and
so
it's
a
different
case
name.
It's
a
different
case
that
that
resulted
in
this
request
to
be
included
so.
A
H
H
And
the
problem
is
for
guys,
like
representative
miller
and
myself,
the
nerds
amongst
the
politicians
really
get
interested
in
pensions
and
in
2013
representative
miller,
I
was
on
my
my
first
session
and
some
crazy
guy
from
metro
council
comes
running
down
the
hall
with
this
paper
of
pension
ideas,
and
that
was
the
first
time
I
met
jerry
miller
and
since
we've
been
here,
we
started
an
absolute
financial
precipice.
I
would
say
that
we
were
probably
greatly
concerned
about
the
very
real
potential
of
default
inside
of
the
pension
system
that
you
we
said
many
times.
H
We
hit
one
more
blip
and
this
thing's
going
under,
and
you
have
kept
a
singularity
of
focus
in
an
amount
of
effort
that
has
been
unparalleled
and
it's
one
of
those
areas
that
just
doesn't
get
a
lot
of
attention.
It
has
because
it's
been
such
a
crisis,
but
it
will
fade
into
the
background
again
and
I
think
the
people
of
this
commonwealth
will
never
understand
the
debt
of
gratitude
that
they
owe
you
for
the
service
that
you
put
in
in
what
you
did
when
you
came
here.
A
B
F
I
haven't
been
able
to
finish
this
bill
because
every
time
I
flip
to
another
page,
there's
more
about
this
whole
medical,
objective
evidence
and
and
giving
way
to
testimony,
actually
brings
up
more
questions
and
answers,
and
I
maybe
need
to
go
read
this
case,
but
my
understanding
is
the
finer
effect
decides
how
to
weight
the
evidence,
and
I
just
I
I
might
be
missing
something
I'll
go
review
it,
but
for
right
now,
that's
a
major
concern
when
we
sit
here
in
statute
and
tell
a
finer
effect
how
to
wait
evidence
when,
in
a
lot
of
these
cases,
you
don't
have
that
kind
of
the
evidence
you
want
to
see
is
fanciful.
F
It
doesn't
exist.
Who
was
there?
It
was
the
person
I
get
injured.
Finer
fat
can
sit
there
and
we
do
this
all
the
time
when
we
deal
with
issues
how
to
sort
out
the
the
bias
versus
I
mean.
Lobbyists
are
crawling
all
over
this
place:
how
to
sort
out
the
bias
right.
That's
what
we
do.
We
gotta
sort
out
the
bias
and
figure
out
what
the
truth
might
have
been,
but
it
certainly
doesn't
require
us
to
put
weight
one
here
and
one
there.
F
So
I
got
to
be
a
no
for
right
now,
but
I
hope
if
we
can
get
that
out
of
there,
I
I'm
assuming
the
rest
of
this
actually
is
house
cleaning.
Thank
you.
Senator.
C
B
E
Mr
chairman
explain
my
eye
vote.
Yes,
you
can.
I
am
going
to
vote
I
today
to
move
this
bill
along
because
I
think
the
intentions
are
good,
but
I
do
have
some
some
great
concerns
that
have
been
voiced
by
senator
southworth
and
I
think
that
there
may
need
to
be
a
floor
amendment
here
to
make
sure
everybody
that
applies
for
these
benefits
are
treated
fairly,
which
I
know
is
the
intention
here.
I
don't
think
anybody
wants
to
to
mistreat
anybody.
E
Sometimes
it's
not
there
and
what
we
have
to
go
on
is
substantive
testimony,
and
I
mean
I
can
give
you
dozens
of
instances
in
my
practice
where
medical
records
are
incorrect,
I
mean
that
does
happen,
and
sometimes
the
testimony
and
other
extrinsic
evidence
can
be
used
to
to
fix
that,
and
I
think
the
founder
of
fact
does
have
or
need
the
opportunity
to
weigh
credibility
and,
and
that
sort
of
thing,
so
I
think
most
of
the
bill.
99.9
percent
of
it
I'm
okay
with,
but
she
does
raise
a
valid
issue.
A
I
vote
I
and
I
just
like
to
comment
as
well.
I'm
one
of
those
folks
on
ppob
that
have
seen
the
work
that
represent
miller
is
doing,
and
I'm
one
that
struggles
with
stuff
of
this
nature
and
I'm
on
there
just
because
of
where
I'm
at
on
this
board
and
there's
a
lot
of
substantial
work.
That's
that's
done
on
the
ppob
and
it
has
placed
our
commonwealth
and
our
pensioners
and
pension
systems
in
a
much
better
shape
than
they
were
since
from
2016
on.
A
So
thank
you,
representative
miller,
for
your
time
and
your
efforts
in
the
general
assembly
and
house
bill
297,
as
amended
by
committee
sub,
passes
with
favorable
expression,
9-1
and
shall
move
on.
That
is
all
the
work
before
our
committee
and,
if
there's
a
motion
to
adjourn
we'll
be
adjourned
alrighty.
Thank
you.
So
much.