►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
B
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
I,
do
have
from
Johnson
County
United
for
Hope
for
young
group
institution
that
permanent
veterans,
referral
center,
Johnson,
Johnson,
County
I
think
they're
back
around
the
corner
sitting
down,
so
please
make
them
welcome.
C
Yes,
sir,
just
wanted
to
recognize
the
Davis
County
PVA
Rachel,
Pence
Foster
is
also
in
the
audience,
glad
to
see
you
here
and
thank
you
for
joining
us.
B
B
B
D
Representative
Dawson
president
representative
Flannery,
here
representative
Fleming
representative
Frazier
Gordon,
here
representative
Freeland,
here,
representative
Fugate,
here,
representative
Gentry,
here,
representative
Hart,
here,
representative
Johnson,
here,
representative
McCool,
here,
representative
McPherson,
here,
representative
Palumbo,
representative
Raymond,
representative
Riley,
representative
Stevenson,
representative
Upchurch.
Here.
B
F
Yes,
sir,
please
proceed.
House
Bill
56
here
today
has
had
two
readings.
It
passed
last
year
with
75
votes,
House
Bill
56
does
three
things
relating
to
the
Community
Mental
Health
Centers,
as
established
in
krs-210
one.
It
clearly
designates
or
delineates
the
15
Community
Health
regions
by
listing
Which
counties
are
included
in
each
region.
Two.
It
creates
a
pathway
which
permits
a.
A
A
A
G
You
I
had
longer
comments,
but
I
think
I'll
scale
this
down
to
for
brevity,
but
the
our
opposition
to
this
bill
is
that
by
defining
these
regions
and
not
allowing
the
existing
Community
Mental
Health
Centers
to
operate
outside
of
those
regions,
we're
putting
at
risk
and
services
for
about
25
000
clients
across
the
state
in
60
counties
is
what
the
impact
of
this
bill
does
puts
those
services
at
risk
in
2014.
These
rules
were
changed
so
that
a
cmhc
could
operate
outside
of
their
region.
G
There's
been
several
that
have
done,
so
one
in
particular
has
done
it
more
than
the
others,
and
currently
there's
about
25
000
residents
and
constituents
of
rurals
that
are
receiving
Services
outside
of
their
designated
Five
County
region.
That
would
be
designated
in
the
bill.
So
that's
why
we're
opposing
to
it
posing
the
bill
at
a
time
this
time
in
our
history,
we
need
more
Mental,
Health
Services
not
less
to
serve
our
citizens,
and
so
we
feel
that
this
bill
reverts
back
to
10
years
ago.
G
G
G
H
H
H
E
I
Explain
my
vote
briefly.
Please
I
had
not
heard
from
anybody
on
this
and
all
of
a
sudden,
my
phone's
blowing
up
a
little
bit
so
I'm
gonna
pass
at
the
moment.
Thank
you.
A
A
A
As
far
as
House
Bill
5
and
House
Bill
47
I'm,
going
to
do
a
little
differently
today
than
normal
I'll
present
somewhat
somewhat
present
from
here.
So
we
can
get
to
the
meat
of
the
matter.
I've
met
separately
with
small
groups
number
three
or
four
across
this
committee
to
make
sure
everyone
understood
what
was
in
the
subs
that
were
sent
out
by
email
Friday
at
around
5
PM
Eastern
Time.
A
What
we
have
and
what
we'll
be
second
adoption
in
a
moment
is
phs3
phs3
is
identical
to
phs2
that
went
out
on
Friday
with
the
following
exception.
That
exception
will
appear
on
page
five
and
page
five.
It
will
save
for
taxable
years,
beginning
on
or
after
January
1
of
2024,
but
prior
to
January,
1
2030.
There
shall
be
allowed
a
non-refundable
and
transferable
credit
to
each
taxpayer,
owning
or
possessing
less
than
25
000
barrels
of
distilled
Spirits
in
a
Bonded,
Warehouse
or
premises.
A
The
phs2
had
indicated
that
the
credit
that
was
established
relative
to
the
industry
in
2014
would
stop
on
January
1
2024.
That
remains
in
effect,
except
for
those
with
25
000
barrels
or
less,
which
are
beginning
an
upstarts
coming
into
the
state
or
as
well
as
trying
to
gain
Traction
in
the
state.
It
would
allow
them
an
incentive
credit
to
keep
them
going
or
bring
them
in
additional
assistance
just
to
fight
other
barriers
that
may
exist
in
the
state.
A
A
A
There
is
a
schedule
that
begins
drawing
the
dis,
The
Bourbon
Barrel
tax
down
in
2026
small
increments,
at
first
and
increasing
increments
thereafter,
with
them
declining
to
zero
tax
revenue
in
2039
That
Remains
projections
still
indicate
that
there
will
be
increasing
revenues
up
through
approximately
2030
to
2032
that
will
stagnate
and
then
would
come
back
down
at
that
point,
and
there
are
two
groups
of
people
concerned
for
us
thereafter,
really
our
schools
and
other
local
entities,
everyone
at
the
local
side
on
the
school
district
funding
side.
A
Any
impact
we
anticipate
would
be
offset
by
a
backfill
off
of
the
Sikh
formula
as
it
exists.
It's
a
high
percentage
or
significant
percentage,
but
not
a
full
percentage
hundred.
So
in
order
to
make
sure
we
had
a
full
hold
harmless
in
there,
we
have
put
in
the
in
the
phs3
that
there
would
be
a
an
ultimate
hold
harmless
of
23
levels,
whatever
they
turn
out
to
be,
so
that
the
local
contribution
cannot
fall
below
a
certain
amount.
A
Education
industry
people
worked
with
us
to
make
sure
that
works
from
the
general,
the
state
government
side,
as
well
as
from
the
education
side.
The
second
group
of
people
are
other
local
entities,
so
County
city,
fire
departments,
EMS.
Those
are
the
other
major
concerns
as
to
the
counties
and
as
to
the
cities,
there
is
a
licensee
fee
that
has
been
allowed
specifically
relative
to
those
facilities,
premises
that
have
irbs.
The
industry
has
indicated
publicly
in
meetings
we've
held
even
over
the
last
week
that
they
want
those
irbs
gone.
A
Also,
if
that
be
the
case,
great
we've
also
added
an
incentive
and
and
cover
for
those
local
city
and
counties
with
the
licensing
fee,
set
up
to
encourage
everyone
to
come
to
the
table
and
deal
with
the
irbs.
Secondly,
relative
to
the
fire
departments
as
well
as
EMS.
We
have
a
similar
licensing
program
set
up
so
that
a
license
if
he
can
be
levied
and
extended
out
through
2049
each
of
the
fire
departments
and
the
EMS
are
relatively
small
compared
to
every
other
entity
that
we're
dealing
with
and
their
funding
mechanisms
are
somewhat
unique.
A
Their
circumstances
and
their
funding
are
unique.
So
we've
tried
to
give
as
much
leeway
as
we
can
with
the
licensing
provision,
essentially
allowing
them
to
if
you're
going
to
service
distilling
agents,
then
make
sure
that
you
have
a
way
to
backfill
a
certain
floor
through
licensing
fee
to
make
sure
you
can
cover
your
preparation
and
your
run
for
those
services
and
again
that
would
extend
through
2049,
even
though
the
tax
would
sunset
in
2039..
E
A
F
A
Right,
first
up
on
the
list
and
somewhat
by
herself
as
far
as
associations,
Pam
Thomas
Kentucky
policy,
apparently
in
the
room
and
I,
do
want
to
try
to
make
sure
we
are
mindful
of
the
time.
That's
why
I
wanted
to
present
the
way
I'm
doing
today,
but
if
you
will
introduce
yourself
for
the
record,
make
sure
the
green
light
is
really
green
and
the
microphone's
close
enough
to
you.
A
J
Do
please
proceed.
Thank
you,
chairman
patreon
committee,
for
allowing
me
to
testify.
Today.
My
name
is
Pam
Thomason
I'm,
a
senior
fellow
with
the
Kentucky
Center
for
economic
policy.
I've
worked
in
tax
policy
in
Kentucky
for
over
30
years,
with
much
of
that
time
spent
Staffing.
This
committee
I'm
going
to
take
just
a
few
minutes
to
talk
about
the
history
of
the
barrel
tax
and
the
income
tax
credit,
because
it's
important
in
understanding
where
we
are
today
back
in
2012
when
I
was
Staffing.
J
This
committee,
the
issue
of
repealing
the
barrel
tax
came
up
and
in
response
the
anr
staff
was
asked
to
do
some
research
to
help
legislators
better
understand
what
the
impact
of
we
learned
back
then
that
in
this
that
the
school
districts
and
local
governments
were
the
brunt
of
the
group
heel.
Since
the
state
rate
on
Aging
barrels
is
just
five
cents
per
hundred
dollars
of
value.
At
that
time
there
were
fewer
distilleries
and
they
were
concentrated
in
just
eight
counties
and
based
on
our
research.
J
The
hit
was
going
to
be
big
at
that
time
because
of
the
impact
the
legislature
elected
to
appease
the
industry,
while
protecting
local
governments
by
keeping
the
tax
in
place,
but
allowing
the
distillers
a
100
credit
against
the
income
tax
for
the
barrel
taxes
paid
and
that
credit
satisfied
the
industry
for
a
short
time,
because
in
2018
the
general
assembly
made
changes
to
the
corporate
income
tax
that
were
an
absolute
windfall
for
the
bourbon
industry.
Before
2018.
J
The
formula
Kentucky
used
for
multi-state
companies
to
apportion
income
tax
to
Kentucky,
included,
property,
payroll
and
sales
in
Kentucky
compared
to
property,
payroll
and
Sales
located
elsewhere,
and
the
distilleries
have
a
lot
of
property
and
payroll
in
Kentucky
compared
to
other
places.
So
a
lot
of
their
income
was
a
portion
to
Kentucky
in
2018
property
and
payroll
were
removed
from
the
formula.
That's
the
single
Factor
stuff,
you've,
probably
all
heard
about,
and
so
the
amount
of
income
allocated
to
Kentucky
is
now
just
based
on
sales.
J
In
the
state
and
most
of
the
sales
distilleries
make
are
not
in
Kentucky.
You
don't
need
to
be
a
numbers
person
to
understand
the
significant
impact
that
change
had
the
Inc
had
on
the
income
tax
liability
of
distillers
in
Kentucky
they're
back
before
you
now,
because
the
income
tax
liability
has
been
reduced
so
significantly,
and
the
industry
has
grown
so
much
that
there
is
no
longer.
You
know
they
no
longer
pay
enough
income
taxes
to
use
that
credit
I
also
want
to
mention
just
a
few
other
facts
relating
to
the
bourbon
industry
and
tax
credits.
J
Since
2015
distilleries
have
received
more
than
100
Economic
Development
subsidies.
This
isn't
the
number
of
projects,
because
most
projects
qualify
for
more
than
one
subsidy.
One
program
allows
them
to
keep
income
taxes
withheld
from
their
employees,
whose
jobs
were
created
by
the
project
rather
than
remitting
them
to
the
revenue
department,
with
the
employees
still
receiving
credit
for
having
paid
the
tax.
J
The
same
projects
also
usually
receive
a
refund
of
sales
tax
paid
on
construction
materials
and
for
their
visitor
centers
tourism
development
acts
credits
allow
them
to
keep
a
portion
of
the
sales
tax
that
they
collect
rather
than
remitting
them.
So
when
you
put
it
all
together,
you
can
see
that
the
bourbon
industry
is
already
receiving
a
lot
of
tax
breaks
in
Kentucky.
Despite
the
barrel
attacks,
there
were
2.1
billion
in
new
investments
in
out
just
last
year.
J
There
are
Distillery
operations
now
in
over
40
Kentucky
counties
and
remember
earlier
in
my
testimony,
I
said
back
when
we
did
that
analysis.
There
were
only
eight
and
we
know
that
those
companies
did
a
cost-benefit
analysis
that
included
payment
of
the
barrel
tax
and
they
decided
to
come
here
anyway.
So
just
stop
for
a
minute
and
think
about
that.
They
knew
about
the
tax
and
they
came
anyway
in
closing
I.
Think
it's
clear,
based
on
the
information
directly
from
the
industry
that
there's
no
credible
argument
that
the
barrel
tax
has
impeded
bourbon,
Industries
growth.
J
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Miss
Thomas
and
I
understand
the
direction
you're
going
and
I
would
simply
point
out
that,
let's
just
say
that
there
is
a
barrier
that
is
unique
to
Kentucky,
as
opposed
to
any
other
jurisdiction
in
the
world.
Regarding
the
Bourbon
Barrel
tax
and
to
put
it
in
perspective
somewhat
in
2012,
we
had
about
25
percent
off
of
all
distilling
permits
in
50
states,
12
25
in
2012.
We
now
have
three
percent
of
those
permits
across
the
same
area.
A
A
A
If
we
can
survive
for
a
little
bit
that
way.
Well,
each
of
you
make
sure
that
the
microphone
in
front
of
you
is
really
green,
that
the
light
toward
the
middle
it's
sufficiently
close
to
you,
so
we
can
pick
that
up
for
the
audience.
That's
not
in
this
room
in
particular,
and
each
each
of
you
will
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record.
Please.
A
Good
well,
each
of
you
raise
your
right
hands.
Do
you
swear
affirm
to
tell
the
truth?
Hold
truth,
nothing,
but
the
truth.
I
do
we
do
I'm
gonna?
Let
y'all
pick
how
you
want
to
proceed,
which
one
of
you
goes
first
again,
we
want
to
be
mindful
of
time,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
we
hear
from
you.
K
K
K
K
K
K
K
Devastation
is
the
only
word
to
use
our
budget
would
be
cut
by
more
than
60
percent,
leaving
us
with
only
the
fear
and
concerns
the
citizens
had
with
makers
locating
in
our
city,
the
blanket
of
black
mold
traffic
and
wear
and
tear
of
their
trucks.
That
will
continue
to
use
our
streets
and
the
memory
of
past
promises
made.
K
To
add
insult
to
injury.
The
bourbon
industry
claims
the
barrel
tax
discourages
growth.
In
the
same
breath,
they
boast
about
five
billion
dollars
of
expansion
currently
underway
in
Kentucky
their
own
data
proves
it
does
not
discourage
growth,
though
the
proposal
provides
revenue
for
a
limited
period.
The
result
is
still
the
same.
The
revenue
will
be
gone
in
16
years.
K
Cities
are
Revenue
limited
and
without
an
alternative,
Revenue
stream,
we
are
left
still
having
to
deal
with
the
mold
streets
and
other
city
services
that
distilleries
require
I'm.
Here
today,
asking
you
to
honor
our
handshake
with
the
bourbon
industry.
Do
not
devastate
my
community
and,
more
importantly,
do
not
devastate
my
daughters
vote
against
House
Bill
5..
Thank
you.
L
Yes,
sir
chairman
Petrie
and
members
of
the
committee,
thank
you
for
allowing
us
to
speak
today
and
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
going
to
repeat
with
my
distinguished
colleague
here
just
had
to
say
about
literally
about
the
black
mold
and
the
infrastructure
it
takes
to
maintain.
We
have
62
warehouses
in
Bullitt
County.
We
are
home
of
Jim
Beam,
a
company
that
we
were
totally
proud
of
until
this
and
the
handshake
agreements
have
been
there
from
day
one
we
have
almost.
L
They
have
yet
to
come
to
the
table
to
even
establish
a
dialogue
with
us
about
them,
and
even
though
we
have
reached
out
to
them
repeatedly
so
moving
forward
when
you
look
at
it
and
I'm
gonna
pick
on
Jim,
Beam
here
and
I
hope.
Some
of
the
representatives
are
here.
They
sell
10
and
a
half
million
cases
of
just
Jim
Beam
white
worldwide
worldwide
and
the
best
nickel
that
we
can
put
on
this.
In
my
testimony
chairman
Petrie,
they
pay
about
eight
million
dollars
across
Woodford
Nelson
Marion
Franklin
in
Bullitt
counties
in
the
barrel
tax.
L
You
can
take
that
ten
and
a
half
million
cases,
they're
12
bottle
cases,
that's
126
million
bottles,
and
you
divide
that
into
that
eight
million
it's
about
six
cents
on
the
bottle.
So
is
this
really
hampering
their
growth?
It's
a
consumption
tax!
It's
it's!
It's
an
opportunity
for
our
community
to
provide
those
Services
when
our
fire
department
makes
48
runs
to
that
facility
in
a
year.
I
don't
know
if
you've
ever
been
around
a
Distillery
I
spent
30
years
in
mine,
and
it
is
not
a
real
Pleasant
place
to
make
liquor
at.
L
So
we
ask
you
to
vote
against
this
because
the
revenue
will
be
gone
and
I'm
looking
at
it
for
the
future
of
our
community.
Yes,
they've
strived
2014
great
agreement,
State
give
up
their
portion
of
this
local
tax
and
it
truly
is
right
now
local
tax,
so
moving
forward.
Please
vote
against
this
because
it
does
harm
our
communities
in
a
way.
Our
county
is
more
so
limited
than
any
City,
because
we
don't
have
an
occupational
tax
at
all.
L
They
don't
pay
insurance
premium
surcharge
because
they're
literally
self-insured
so
I
hear
what
they
have
to
say,
but
they
have
yet
to
ever
come
to
the
table
and
we've
ever.
We
have
never
been
invited.
That's
the
largest
county
in
this
discussion
to
come
and
have
an
opportunity
to
speak
to
the
house,
except
for
today.
Thank
you,
chairman.
M
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
Mr
Petrie
in
the
house,
the
I'm
not
going
to
repeat
you
know.
You've
heard
this
same
story
quite
often,
I
think
when
you
hear
it
from
the
heart
it
makes
a
difference
face
to
face.
You
know:
I've
got
a
Biz
several
businesses
over
the
years
and
and
I.
Don't
know
why
I
want
to
take
this
judge's
job
at
64
years
old,
but
I
feel
like
there's
a
lot
of
needs
in
the
county
that
we
need
to
accomplish.
So
here.
M
Building
10
15
20
a
year
made
more
money,
more
houses
and
more
profit
and
more
taxes,
and
we
have
to
pay
tangible
taxes
in
their
businesses.
Like
everybody
else
does
so.
You
know
I
think
just
like
The
Distillery
industry
they've,
you
know
they've
expanded
and
built
expanded.
The
bill,
like
any
other
company
I,
mean
I,
can
kind
of
maybe
pick
on
five
star,
my
competitor.
They
got
91
stores,
they
started
out
with
one
I'm
sure
they're,
paying
a
lot
more
taxes.
M
I,
don't
know
why
the
Distillery
industry
wants
to
get
such
a
break.
Bardstown
is
pretty
much
called
The
Bourbon
capital
of
the
world,
and
it's
pretty
well
known
for
that.
All
the
way
around
the
world
and
the
black
mode
is
a
constant,
constant,
constant
battle,
a
cry.
M
We
think
it's
coming
our
way.
There's
going
to
be
a
lot
more
challenges,
one
of
The
Distillery
said
you
know
they
didn't
really
want
a
black
eye
in
the
community,
but
now
they've
got
two
black
guys,
probably
so
we
have
worked
with
them
and
worked
with
them,
and
my
predecessors
have
worked
with
them
and
worked
with
them
and
he's
talking
about
you
made
a
comment
about
moving
out
of
the
state.
M
We
can't
take
them
all
hell.
We've
turned
down,
I.
Think
three:
in
the
last
two
years,
they
put
so
much
pressure
on
your
sewer
capacity,
your
water
capacity
and
these
other
counties
that
it's
part
of
this
bill
and
I've
talked
to
a
lot
of
judges
in
these
other
parts
of
the
counties
that
you
represent.
You're
going
to
be
getting
more
warehouses
in
the
series
over
time,
because
we
can't
take
them
all
Jerry
can't
we
just
can't
take
them
all.
So
as
that
as
it
grows,
an
industry
is
proven
record
with
the
Asian
market.
M
It's
going
to
continue
to
grow
and
these
other
counties
will
start
giving
more
Revenue.
You
know
I'm
not
going
to
repeat
this
thing.
You
know,
2014,
you
get
or
12
I
think
enormous
tax
breaks,
18
the
same
thing
22
same
thing
now
that
they're
trying
to
do
every
four
years
and
26
that
want
us
to
help
them
pay
for
the
liquor.
They
want
us
to
bat
back,
it's
where
it
looks
like
it's
coming.
M
One
of
them
got
mad
at
me
the
other
day,
and
he
called
me
out
and
said
because
in
my
testimony,
I've
had
it
and
I've
had
several
meetings,
open
houses,
public
hearings
and
had
the
news
media
there
and
opened
a
lot
of
people's
eyes,
and
they
said
you
know,
I
use
the
word.
Greedy
I
mean
I,
don't
know
what
the
definition
or
greedy
but
I
call
it
pretty
much
greed
Nelson
County
has
we
got
a
zero
health
insurance
tax?
We
got
a
zero.
M
We
got
a
zero
Health
Department
tax,
a
zero
insurance
tax.
We
got
a
zero
EMA
Ms
EMS
tax
we've
got
a
zero
fire
district
tax.
We
pay
one
million
dollars
a
year
to
the
health
department,
1.8
million
to
the
jail
to
subsidize
it
because
frankfurt's
not
giving
us
money
to
take
care
of
the
jail
with
their
prisoners.
M
You
think
they'll
be
trying
to
help
us
instead
of
hurting
us-
and
you
know
we
say
all
this
all
day.
We've
worked
with
hysteries
and
I've
got
a
lot
of
friends
and
there's
a
lot
of
they've
been
good
to
our
communities
as
such
I
guess,
you'd
say
as
a
whole
and
I
don't
think
we
want
to
want
to
give
them
a
black
eye.
But
as
of
today
and
I
know,
I've
talked
to
several
counties
the
zoning
laws.
You
know
it's
going
to
hurt
them,
there's
going
to
be
a
backlash
here.
M
If
this
thing
passes
as
presented,
I
don't
want
to
go
on
and
on
about.
I
know,
you're
on
a
Time
strength,
but
the
I
guess
the
biggest
thing
I
went
to
those
four
meetings
you
had
back
to
Summer,
whatever
they've
called
them.
The
dog
and
pony
show
pretty
much
because
there
was
about
more
people
than
this
here
and
you
had
that
group
up
there.
They.
I
M
Consistently
said
and
a
couple
other
meetings
we
were
at
was
said:
let's
get
together
and
come
up
with
a
compromise
or
something
we
can
live
with,
not
one
meeting
about
being
called
to
and
I'm
sure
the
bourbon
side
has
been
in
in
your
offices.
M
Quite
often
not
one
meeting
of
I
don't
think
none
of
these
all
the
judges
I
know
they
invited
us
to
anything
to
sit
down
and
try
to
come
up
with
a
solution
and
we
we
came
back
and
asked
them,
for
we
would
give
them
some
solutions
here
last
week,
but
it's
like
just
talking
to
that
cloud.
Up
there,
you're
elected
by
the
people,
You're
Not
Elected
by
the
distilleries,
we're
elected
by
other
people.
I,
don't
know
how
many
people
in
here
that
worked
for
the
county
governments,
City
governments
in
your
lifetime,
Mr.
M
O
A
All
right,
some
of
these
interests
are
going
to
be
similar
to
what
the
city
county
had,
but
there's
a
little
bit
of
different,
take
from
y'all's
angle,
I
think
so
preach
out
separately.
If
each
of
you
will
make
sure
the
green
light
is
really
green,
the
microphone's
close
enough
until
you
introduce
yourself
with
the
record,
still
got
some
time
issues
we're
watching
for
okay.
A
Sheriff
very
good:
if
each
of
you
raise
your
right
hands,
do
you
square
firm
to
tell
the
truth,
whole
truth
or
nothing,
but
the
truth.
I
do
please
proceed.
Of
course,
y'all
aren't
ready
to
be
up
there
together,
most
likely.
So
hopefully
one
of
you
can
go
we'll
go
through
the
remainder.
P
I'll
speak
first
Mr
chairman,
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
for
your
help
and
trying
to
decipher
this
bill
as
long
as
and
as
well
as
representative
Decker
from
my
area
after
much
consideration,
we
must
still
oppose
this
bill.
P
You're
you're,
adding
a
section
to
chapter
75
and
we
we've
gone
through
it.
We've
talked
to
attorneys
and
our
our
our
our
comeback
to
that
is.
This
is
basically
probable
costs
fire
districts,
can't
budget
plan
or
survive
on
probable
cause
costs.
We
probably
cost
substitute,
will
not
be
provide
resources
personnel.
P
This
is
the
first
sustainability
necessary
to
adequately
provide
service
to
these
facilities
and
in
the
rest
of
our
districts.
We
work
right
now
off
10
cents
per
100.
You
all
know
that
that's
in
chapter
75
and
well
that's
been
that
way
for
over
30
years,
the
cost
of
a
fire
truck.
These
days
has
gone
from
a
couple
hundred
thousand
dollars.
The
last
one
I
purchased
I
know
what
was
2.9
Million
Dollars,
and
here
we
sit
here
today
and
we
do
this.
P
Every
year
seems
like
that
there
are,
lobbyists
are
coming
down
here
and
they're,
really
not
lobbyists.
They're
they're
my
defense
team,
because
they're
they're,
watching
every
bill
that
comes
through
here
and
trying
to
defend
the
fire
service
against
money,
be
taken
away
from
us,
that's
the
honest
and,
and
it
can't
happen,
we
can't
take
this
Revenue
loss
in
the
fire
districts.
We
can't
the
cost
of
suiting
up
a
firefighter.
These
days
is
about
twenty
one
thousand
dollars
and
I
can
go
on
and
on
and
on
how
the
costs
have
risen.
P
P
P
They're,
not
helping
us
with
our
schools,
they're,
not
helping
with
Emergency
Services?
Why
do
we
want
them?
You
can
say
it's
job
growth,
The
Distillery!
In
Shelby
County
operates
almost
all
the
entire
operations
almost
automatic
every
bit
of
it.
I
think
they've
got
six
Personnel
that
run
that
Distillery
and
shift
it's
all
automated,
so
that
doesn't
work
where
we're
at
so
the
owner
distillers
I'm
sure,
there's
a
lot
of
hand,
work
being
done,
but
in
Shelby
County,
that's
not
the
way
it
operates.
We
make
multiple
runs
out
there,
and
this
is
basically
a
cost.
P
This
is
a
cost
for
services.
The
the
language
that's
being
put
into
chapter
75
is
the
cost
for
services,
so
we're
going
to
hand
them
a
bill
if
they
don't
feel
like
it's
fair
and
reasonable
they're
not
going
to
pay
it
we'll
have
to
deal
with
their
attorneys
to
get
our
money.
That's
not
the
way
we
can
operate.
I
can't
buy
a
fire
truck
based
on
whether
they'll
pay
their
bill
or
not.
P
N
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
members
of
the
committee
I
wanted
to
talk
to
you
a
little
bit
about
Anderson
County.
If
you
don't
know
where
it
is
Lawrenceburg
I
bet,
you
know
what
wild
turkey
is.
That's
our
claim
to
fame.
You
hear
the
other
counties
that
have
several
different
distillers.
Wild
turkey's
been
in
our
County
forever
got
a
good
working
relationship.
N
Partnership
with
wild
turkey,
I
actually
went
out
and
talked
to
the
to
the
platform,
and
when
this
came
up
a
couple
weeks
ago
and
of
course
he
didn't
know
a
whole
lot
as
it's
going
through
the
distiller
Association
and
through
their
lead
city
in
California.
But
let
me
explain
to
you
if
you
don't
already
know
and
I've
emailed,
all
of
you,
you
may
have
seen
my
name
on
it,
but
the
old
sheriffs
aren't
attacking
District.
N
We
get
our
money
off
of
commissions
for
collecting
those
taxes,
whether
it
be
the
schools
or
whether
it
be
the
fire
department.
Some
I
haven't
heard
talk
here
today
about
health
departments
and
the
County
Extension
agents
and
libraries
I,
don't
know
where
they
fall
in
this,
how
quick
they
lose,
but
we
make
our
money
and
it's
70
000
to
me
a
year.
N
It
means
third
shift
if
I
lose
it,
how
much
did
the
Sheriff,
Nelson
I'm
sure
his
is
a
lot
more,
but
we
make
our
money
off
collecting
those
taxes
now,
if
they
change
to
something
besides
a
tax,
then
we
don't
collect
it.
We
don't
get
a
fee
off
of
it.
That's
how
Sheriff's
Office
runs
they're
fee
based
we'd,
like
I'd
like
for
you
to
really
think
about
that.
When
you're
talking
about
doing
away
with
the
barrel
tax
I
was
by
law.
N
So
I
was
at
one
last
year
when
a
certain
Distillery
big
Distillery
and
had
to
rezone
it
of
about
400
acres
in
our
little
County
and
I'm,
like
the
the
other
judges,
one
of
the
biggest
proponents
or
the
up
owners
there
we're
the
local
people
they
hate
to
see
the
good
Farmland
turned
into
a
place
for
a
bunch
of
warehouses
and,
and
they
were
concerned
about
the
black
black
mold
that
you
have
to
go
through,
but
the
other
side
of
it
was
that
the
big
Investments
make
in
the
community
and
that
bourbon
company
talked
about
that,
how
much
it
would
mean
to
the
community
in
schools
and
everything
and
at
the
same
time
they
were
over
here
trying
to
do
away
with
it.
N
So
you
know
I
know
about
34
years
as
a
Lawman.
Four
of
those
years
were
spent
right
here.
Mr
chairman
I
ran
the
state
police
security
detail
as
a
trooper
and
a
sergeant
started
it
in
2000.
and
I
know
how
hard
it
is
to
go
against
a
bill.
That's
sponsored
by
the
chairman
of
a
r
and
co-sponsored
by
the
speaker.
Look
right
is
right,
and
you
know
the
lobbyists
they'll
they're
doing
this
for
their
salary
in
the
commission,
but
the
people
you
see
sitting
behind
me
and
myself
we're
doing
it
for
our
people.
N
That's
reason
we're
doing
it
and
we
see
a
loss
coming
and
it
may
be
15
years
down
the
road
before
it's
all
gone,
but
we
see
it
coming
and
we
know
it
can't
be
replaced
and
we
know
what
it'll
do
to
our
community
I
appreciate
you
thinking
about
the
people
before
profit.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
How.
O
Do
you
follow
that?
Please
thank
y'all
for
allowing
me
to
speak
out
and
sign
up.
I
was
not
going
to
I
was
going
to
let
Joe
do
it
because
he's
a
well-spoken
Sheriff,
but
we
have
a
model
in
the
sheriff's
Association.
O
No
Sheriff
stands
alone,
so
here
I
am
I,
come
from
the
bourbon
capital
of
the
world,
11
distilleries
in
Nelson
County
13
in
the
next
few
years,
as
announced
on
Bourbon
day
in
Nelson
County,
my
office
is
also
a
fee-based
office,
meaning
that,
whatever
you
collect,
you
get
a
fee
from
that
my
office,
my
side
of
my
budget
will
lose
250,
000
and
I
will
lose
more
than
just
third
shift
and
it's
hard
to
come
by
with
law
enforcement.
O
If
you
have
not
noticed
the
retirement
has
hurt
the
recruitment
in
law
enforcement,
and
this
would
also
hurt
counties
not
only
to
have
the
bourbon
in
their
counties,
but
it
will
trickle
down
effect
to
all
the
counties.
I
ask
everybody
on
that
Podium
to
turn
around
and
look
at
the
Kentucky
state
seal.
Please
do
there's
two
gentlemen
up
there
shaking
hands
when
the
bourbon
came
to
our
counties,
they
asked
for
the
handshake
and
now
they're
retracting
that
handshake
I
request
that
you
guys
vote
against
House,
Bill,
5
and
honor
that
handshake.
A
Why
is
well
not
last
yet,
but
I
have
looks
like
someone
from
Bardstown
Nelson
and
Marion
schools
and
I've
got
maybe
Clark
Maybe
Bradley
and
maybe
Brady
yeah.
They
get
close.
That's
it
all
right,
so
you
know
the
drill
by
now.
If
you
each
will
make
sure
that
the
microphone
is
sufficiently
close
to
you
make
sure
the
green
light
in
the
middle
is
green
makes
sure
you
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record.
Please.
A
Q
Q
I
will
be
very
mindful
of
time
again
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
just
share
a
few
comments.
Those
that
preceded
us
at
the
podium
are
part
of
our
our
communities
and
and
when
House
Bill
5
came
up.
It
was
something
that
certainly
was
a
big
topic
of
conversation
and
Leadership
across
the
the
entire
County
came
together
to
talk
about
this
I
know
that
the
committee
is
very
aware
of
how
schools
are
funded
this
and,
if
you're
fortunate,
to
have
a
warehouses
in
your
in
your
District.
Q
You
do
see
funding
and
it
benefits
your
your
school
district.
Q
So
it
is
a
critical
piece
of
how
our
schools
are
funded
and
what
it
would
do,
but
it's
hard
to
follow
and-
and
probably
maybe
more
importantly,
it's
easy
to
understand
why
District
superintendents
from
the
very
same
communities
just
heard
from
you
know,
are
sitting
with
those
folks.
You
can
imagine,
there's
a
lot
of
passion
and
and
bourbon
is
definitely
a
part
of
Bardstown,
Nelson,
County
and,
of
course,
the
Marion
as
well.
S
I
would
just
like
to
share
that,
sometimes
in
when
the
worlds
of
school
and
Industry
intersect,
it
can
feel
as
though
we
have
very
little
in
common,
because,
unlike
businesses,
we
don't
produce
a
product
for
sale.
Instead,
we
produce
a
well-educated
young
people,
but
I'd
like
to
think
that
we
should
all
be
able
to
see
how
that
product
benefits
us
all
our
communities,
our
Industries
bourbon
producers
have
always
been
not
just
a
strong
partner
with
school
districts,
but
also
a
willing
partner
willing
to
see
the
benefit
of
a
well-funded
public
education
system.
S
Ultimately,
our
students
aren't
just
graduates
of
our
district
they're,
our
employees,
our
patrons
our
neighbors
and
our
future
Community
leaders
I
have
no
doubt
that
our
local
distilleries
want
to
continue
that
strong
partnership
with
our
districts.
I
know
I
speak
for
all
superintendents
when
I
say
that
we
value
and
respect
the
working
relationships
that
we've
developed
with
the
bourbon
industry
and
I
hope
that
we
can
see
that
continue.
Just,
as
importantly,
I
hope.
S
The
bourbon
industry
here
here
in
Kentucky
recognizes
that
all
the
good
that
comes
from
the
collaboration
with
school
districts
that
collaboration
May
mean
better
compensation
for
our
teachers,
the
creation
of
new
and
exciting
opportunities
for
our
students
or
improved
facilities,
because,
unlike
bourbon
school
facilities,
do
not
improve
with
age.
We
can
talk
numbers
all
day,
I'm,
a
former
math
teacher,
but
really
those
things
cost
us
this.
A
continued
strong
partnership
with
our
local
Industries,
especially
those
in
the
bourbon
business.
R
Thank
you,
representative
Petrie,
for
allowing
us
to
talk
just
going
back
to
the
math
of
seek
I
know.
This
is
not
a
discussion
around
the
seek
formula,
but
the
zig
formula
is
fundamentally
broken
for
communities
like
Nelson
County
as
well,
where
our
local
property
owners
are
paying
the
great
majority
of
our
school
taxes
today,
but
in
Nelson
County
alone.
This
is
the
easiest
way
to
see
this.
It
impacts
Marion
and
Bardstown.
R
Similarly,
if
this
tax
were
to
be
phased
out
and
I
know,
that's
not
currently
the
plan
this
bill
for
schools,
but
it
is
for
some
of
the
other
entities.
This
bill
worked
to
be
phased
out
in
any
way
it
would
distribute
the
tax
rate
across
the
rest
of
the
county
at
about
12
percent
in
Nelson
County.
The
math
is
this:
we
receive
five
million
dollars
annually
at
ad
valorem
taxes
based
on
our
2022
numbers
of
that
money,
2.2
million,
would
be
recouped
and
seek.
R
2.8
million
would
not
be
recouped
and
seek
that
money
would
be
distributed
across
the
other
property
tax
owners,
increasing
the
average
Property
Owners
tax
by
12
percent.
That
is
a
very
similar
pattern
in
Nelson.
In
Marion,
County
and
Bardstown,
even
though
their
numbers
are
different
and
really
this
is
a
part
of
a
larger
conversation
around
school
funding
until
the
seek
formulas
address
to
continue
to
work
against
growing
communities
like
Nelson,
County
and
others
across
the
state.
A
Thank
you,
H
very
much.
I
will
just
remind
everybody
that
there
is
a
house
bill,
447
that
we're
going
to
be
taking
up
with
this.
That
will
help
address
the
educational
Community
understand
the
comments.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
everybody
understands
their
second
Bill
coming
off.
So
thank
y'all.
I
have
up
last
on
list.
Andrew,
McNeil,
Bluegrass,
Institute,
I.
Think.
T
T
A
T
I
do
chairman.
Thank
you.
Proceed
yeah
members
of
the
committee.
Thank
you
for
this
opportunity
to
speak
to
House
Bill
5,
these
committee
substitutes
and
its
Associated
legislation
again
Amanda
McNeil
with
the
Bluegrass
Institute
former
senior
policy
advisor
to
Governor
Matt
Bevin,
as
well
as
Deputy
state
budget
director.
The
barrel
tax
is
an
anti-competitive
tax
with
serious,
long-term
long-term
ramifications.
T
The
consideration
of
House
Bill
5
is
a
clear
indication.
The
general
assembly
takes
this
threat
to
our
state's
signature
industry
seriously.
No
question
Kentucky
remains
and
continues
to
be
the
dominant
player
in
Bourbon
production.
It
would
be
short-sighted,
however,
to
base
policy
decisions
on
that
fact
when
there
are
clear
and
visible
threats
to
our
position
startups
that
produce
bourbon.
Oh
excuse
me
there's
a
long
list
of
reasons
why
the
Bluegrass
Institute
has
arrived
at
this
conclusion.
T
The
first
and
most
concerning
to
a
limited
government
Think
Tank
like
bips,
is
the
impact
the
discriminatory
tax
is
having
on
the
possibility.
The
Next
Generation
of
distilling
entrepreneurs
will
get
their
start
in
Kentucky
startups
that
produce
bourbon
must
pay
taxes
on
their
aging
barrels
unfinished
products
for
years
before
putting
their
first
bottle
of
bourbon
on
the
Shelf.
T
Realizing
this
during
their
planning
stages,
it
is
safe
to
assume
entrepreneurs
will
evaluate
the
business
environments
in
other
states
when
deciding
where
to
launch
their
Venture
and
other
states
are
gunning
for
Kentucky
at
its
best.
The
legislative
process
pursues
compromise
by
balancing
competing
interests.
T
Eliminating
this
archaic
tax,
while
holding
various
stakeholders
harmless
to
the
greatest
extent
possible,
is
appears
to
be
the
basis
for
the
house
bill.
5
committee
substitutes
phasing
out
the
barrel
tax
creates
certainty
that
the
industry
needs
to
continue
investing
in
our
state.
Future
investment
will
drive
growth
in
other
Revenue
sources
generated
by
the
industry.
T
New
distilleries
create
more
opportunities
for
more
counties
to
benefit
from
the
tourism
surrounding
bourbon
and
entrepreneurs
will
continue
to
see.
Kentucky
is
the
place
to
get
their
start
again.
The
barrel
tax
is
an
anti-competitive
tax.
Moving
forward
with
these
committee
substitutes
and
Associated
legislation
puts
the
Commonwealth
on
track
to
retain
our
spot
as
the
world's
bourbon
capital.
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman,
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
the
committee.
Thank.
A
T
A
Then
I
will
remind
members
that
we
do
have
House,
Bill,
447
and
I'm
not
going
to
switch
over
to
discussion.
Do
that
just
yet
because
I
don't
want
to
confuse
the
issue,
but
that
will
finish
up
the
issues
relative
to
public
education
funding
relative
to
house
bill
5.
with
that
said,
any
one
questions
comments
seeking
recognition:
CNN,
please
call
roll.
E
D
U
G
M
S
U
Mr
chairman,
first
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
spending
time
with
us
going
through
various
changes
that
were
made
to
this
bill
that
that
we
have
introduced
to
this
weekend.
U
I
will
say,
as
a
member
of
long
time,
member
of
Licensing
and
occupations
I
understand
a
lot
of
things
about
this
industry
that
maybe
some
of
my
colleagues
don't
this
industry
was
taxed
heavily
more
heavily
than
probably
any
other
industry
10.
You
know
several
years
ago,
we've
we've
made
many
positive
changes
to
that
that
that,
and
the
question
today
is,
is
how
far
do.
H
U
And
I
will
say
a
week
ago:
I
was
a
definite
no
on
this
bill.
I
thought
we
were
going
too
far,
there's
too
many
people
that
have
become
dependent
upon
that
Revenue.
That
is
not
being
fully
replaced.
However,
the
changes
that
have
been
made
recently
have
caused
me
to
do
a
lot
of
number
crunching
and
I'm
still
doing
number
crunching
I
am
a
pass
today
and
I
understand.
U
D
C
B
V
A
companion
bill,
we're
about
to
hear,
says
we're
going
to
make
schools
whole
from
this
Revenue
reduction
with
money
from
the
budget.
Reserve
trust
fund,
that's
a
corporate
handout
and
it
shifts
the
tax
burden
from
growing
thriving
corporations
to
Average
Joe
taxpayers.
I'm.
Also
listening
closely
to
the
people
in
cities
and
counties
closest
to
this
problem,
the
county,
judges,
Sheriff's
superintendents
and
they
say
no
so
I
say
no.
We
ought
to
call
this
Bluff
from
this
industry.
I
A
A
Q
A
A
motion
have
a
motion
on
the
bill.
A
second
have
a
motion,
a
second
on
phs2
adoption.
All
in
favor
opposed
phs2
committee
substitute
two
to
House
Bill
447
is
adopted.
We
now
have
before
us
House
Bill
447,
as
amended
a
phs2
and
as
we
had
referenced
in
an
earlier
in
the
earlier
bill
on
five,
this
is
a
companion
bill
that
essentially
creates
a
floor
to
23
numbers
for
the
local
contribution
within
the
seat
formula
for
the
public
education
system,
I
think
is
even
some
of
the
gentlemen.
A
Before
from
the
city
and
county
districts
in
and
around
Nelson,
it
indicated
there
can
be
some
seek
backfill,
that's
not
a
hundred
percent.
This
would
get
us
close
to
100,
if
not
exactly
at
it,
with
a
floor
guarantee
with
the
local
contribution
tied
to
23
numbers
from
here
on
out
the
projections
that
we
have
or
that
we've
worked
up.
A
I,
don't
know
that
this
floor
will
ever
come
into
place,
given
the
time
frame
it
takes
for
the
revenues
to
come
down
and
that
you
would
have
to
assume
that
seek
Remains
exacts
the
basic
would
remain
the
same
as
well
as
the
Ada
count,
Remains
the
Same
and
of
several
other
factors.
Those
factors
almost
always
change
year
to
year
or
every
two
years,
but
the
floor
was
put
in
to
make
sure
that
there
was
further
indication
that
public
education
would
still
receive
the
funding
it
needed.