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From YouTube: House Standing Committee on Natural Resources and Energy
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A
The
clerk
called
the
call
the
roll.
Let
me
say
that
if
you
are
a
committee
member
and
you
are
join
us,
you
know
via
the
video.
Just
let
us
know
if
you
are
in
your
annex
office
on
campus
or
you
know
from
your
district.
So
please
call
the
roll.
C
C
C
C
C
C
B
A
Here,
okay,
we
do
have
a
quorum
members,
we're
glad
to
have
representative
bowling
back
with
us
and
we
are
so
sorry
for
for
your
loss
and
you're.
I
served
with
your
dad
for
many
many
years
and
he
was
a
mentor
to
me
and-
and
I
know
he
certainly
will
be
missed
and
a
great
great
great
guy-
we're
going
to
take
up
three
bills
today.
A
The
first
bill
is
house
bill.
392.,
that's
my
bill.
I'm
probably
just
going
to
do
th
this
this
from
the
from
the
from
the
chair.
If
it's
okay
with
everyone
house
bill
392
is,
is
the
same
bill
as
house
bill
403
last
year
that
passed
the
house
96
to
nothing
and
what
it
really
does
it's
a
bill
that
I
brought
for
the
public
service
commission.
I
think
they
are
here
to
on
zoom
to
testify
today,
but
most
of
you
are
aware
of
the
lie
heap
program.
A
That's
a
program
that
helps
it's
a
government
program
that
helps
low
energy.
I
mean
low-income
people
help
pay
their
utility
bills.
Well,
some
of
the
utilities
have
voluntary
programs
where
people
can
maybe
donate
extra
or
round
their
bills
up
or
whatever,
to
help
pay
for
someone
who
maybe
can't
pay
their
bill,
and
all
this
really
does
is
it
sets
the
same
income
levels
for
people
to
qualify.
That's
in
the
lockheed
program
doesn't
have
any
kind
of
physical
impact
to
the
state,
or
anything
like
that.
A
So
we
have
motion
second
on
the
bill.
I
think
we
do
have
a
karen
wilson
here
with
us
and
and
maybe
others
karen.
Would
you
like
to
say
anything
or
or.
D
Hello,
I
I
don't
have
anything
to
add,
but
we
are
here
if
anybody
has
any
questions.
Linda
bridwell
and
I.
A
Okay,
great,
thank
you
glad
to
have
the
executive
director
with
us
today.
So
there's
a
motion
on
the
on
the
bill
and
a
second
any
questions.
A
Before
we
vote,
representative
scott
has
joined
us
and
are
you
in
your
annex
office,
representative.
D
A
E
E
This
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
late
fees
on
the
water
bill.
A
A
This
this
bill
is
strictly
so
that
if
someone
wants
to
give
money,
you
know
they
can
give
money
to
the
their
utilities,
don't
they're,
probably
only
maybe
one
utility
in
the
state
that
really
has
one
of
these
kind
of
volunteer
programs
where
people
can
give
a
little
extra
to
help
pay
for
someone
else.
A
All
this
bill
does
is
the
the
amount
that
you,
if
you
know,
in
order
to
qualify
it
sets
the
income
level
actually
would
raise
the
income
level
to
the
same
level
as
the
lie
heap
program.
So
it
really
means
that
more
people
would
qualify
for
to
get
assistance
paying
their
bills.
So,
okay,.
A
C
C
C
F
C
A
Okay,
the
bill
does
pass
with
favorable
expression.
Thank
you.
The
next
bill
that
we
have
is
house
bill.
393.
A
That's
also
bill
that
the
public
service
commission
has
asked,
for
this
is
the
same
bill
that
passed
the
house
93
to
one
last
year.
Just
didn't
you
know,
with
the
the
session
ending
early
didn't
have
time
to
pass.
A
Okay
motion
in
a
second
karen:
do
you
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
this
bill?
Maybe
karen
karen
wilson.
D
Yeah.
Okay,
thank
you.
Yes,
it's
the
same
as
house
bill
446
from
last
year,
and
the
reason
we
are
proposing
this
legislation
is
there
are:
there
have
been
a
couple
of
times
when
water
district
commissioners
were
not
able
to
complete
the
statutorily
required
training
and
in
at
least
one
situation.
D
If
it's
a
new
commissioner,
if
they
cannot
complete
their
training,
they
actually
have
to
forfeit
that
position.
The
statute
also
provides
for
an
increase
in
compensation
for
existing
water
district
commissioners.
If
they
complete
additional
training,
they
have
a
an
increase
in
their
compensation.
D
A
But
I
think
some
of
this
training,
some
of
this
training
karen,
is
provided
by
the
psc
and
with
the
the
pandemic
last
year
you
weren't
able
to
actually
get
people
together
and
do
some
of
that.
So
it's
definitely
something
that's
needed.
Do
we
have
any
questions?
C
C
C
F
F
C
F
F
A
Yes,
the
bill
passes
with
favorable
expression.
The
same
should
pass
on
the
floor.
Thank
you
committee
members.
The
next
bill
that
we're
gonna
hear
is
house
bill.
535,
representative
santoro,
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
your
guest
and
then
I
think
there's
some
people
on
that
want
to
testify.
G
A
G
G
H
H
G
A
Yes,
please
for
the
members
that
are
on
zoom
that
are
going
to
testify
on
this
bill.
Would
you
go
ahead
and
introduce
yourselves.
C
C
J
Good
morning
this
I'm
nicholas
dilks,
you
can
call
me
nick
I'm
managing
partner
of
ecosystem
investment
partners
that
tom
referenced.
We
are
a
restoration
company
that
has
successfully
built
four
stream
mitigation
banks
in
kentucky
and
are
pleased
to
support
the
bill.
K
Yes,
I'm
george
howard,
I'm
ceo
of
a
small
medium
business
in
raleigh
north
carolina.
That's
in
the
mitigation
business
been
in
about
25
years,
we're
seeking
to
do
business
in
kentucky
and
I'm
here
to
discuss
the
north
carolina
fee
programs
approach
contracting
for
mitigation,
which
has
a
very
similar
life
history
to
the
kentucky
burger.
G
Thank
you
committee
members.
A
lot
of
this
came
to
my
attention
because
of
several
big
projects
going
on
in
my
county,
in
boone
county
and
across
the
commonwealth,
so
house
bill
535,
creates
hundreds
of
private
sector
construction
jobs
across
kentucky,
and
it
will
restore
streams
and
wetlands.
G
G
This
takes
up
to
three
years
or
more.
In
some
cases,
the
alternative
for
their
these
businesses
is
to
pay
fees
into
the
kentucky
stream
and
wetlands
mitigation
fund.
The
fund
has
a
severe
backlog
that
exceeds
the
federal
limits.
It's
time
to,
let
the
private
industry
help
keep
this
important
program
in
place.
G
H
We're
gonna
let
nick
explain
what
is
going
on
as
far
as
his
company
in
kentucky
nick.
Are
you
good
thank.
J
Great
again,
my
firm
ecosystem
investment
partners
first
came
to
kentucky
about
eight
years
ago
to
help
provide
stream
and
wetland
mitigation
credits
to
various
development
projects.
Like
we
just
mentioned
since
then,
we've
invested
over
50
million
dollars.
We've
restored
over
100
miles
of
streams
across
the
state
to
generate
credits
that
are
used
by
all
sorts
of
various
projects,
including
highway
projects
that
the
transportation
cabinet
has
used
and
other
major
development
projects.
J
We've
shown
that
private
firms
like
ecosystem
about
investment
partners,
like
restoration
systems
that
mr
howard
represents,
can
effectively
and
efficiently
deliver
projects
on
the
ground
in
a
timely
way
again
to
provide
the
credits
that
are
desperately
needed
by
development
while
restoring
and
protecting
kentucky's
environment,
because
we
use
private
capital
to
front
the
work
to
do
this
construction
work,
our
projects
actually
produce
restoration
before
the
impacts
occur.
So
there's
no
quote
temporal
loss
of
those
environmental
resources.
J
All
of
the
firms
that
we've
hired
to
do
our
construction
design,
permitting
monitoring
and
maintenance
are
kentucky
based
firms.
We
employ
dozens
and
dozens
of
people
to
do
these
projects.
These
are
good
paying
jobs
oftentimes
in
very
rural
parts
of
kentucky,
where
jobs
are
hard
to
come
by,
in
particular,
jobs
that
are
focused
on
restoring
the
environment.
J
It
is
a
good
and
necessary
part
of
the
mitigation
program,
as
are
the
mitigation
banks
that
we
develop
in
various
parts
of
the
state
because
of
the
backlog
in
no
projects
being
delivered
like
the
eastern
part
of
the
state
and
the
big
sandy
watershed
and
in
northern
kentucky
and
kenton
county
in
lieu
fee
credits
are
now
not
available
because
they're
either
sold
out
due
to
lack
of
projects
being
on
the
ground
or
inability
to
deliver.
J
Firms
like
ours
and
george
howard
and
others
are
ready
and
willing
to
invest
capital
to
address
this
backlog
and
to
avoid
the
issue
that
happened
in
tennessee,
where
the
program
was
shut
down
due
to
lack
of
performance.
So
there's
a
great
opportunity
here
for
a
real
win-win,
which
is
to
get
jobs
back
on
the
ground.
Good
construction,
jobs
on
the
ground
help
the
luffy
perform
as
they're
obligated
to
do
under
the
federal
laws
and
and
to
make
sure
that
we
rectify
this.
J
K
K
I've
come
to
support
and
answer
questions
about
the
full
delivery
approach
to
state
mitigation
procurement
that
north
carolina
has
used
since
2003
to
operate.
Our
mitigation
fee
program
now
called
the
north
carolina
division
of
mitigation
services.
The
ncdms,
through
the
full
delivery
approach,
is
the
most
successful
mitigation
fee
program
in
the
country.
K
The
program
has
spent
nearly
800
million
dollars
on
400
different,
full
delivery
mitigation
sites
throughout
the
state.
With
zero
contract
failures,
our
company
is
proud
to
be
responsible
for
over
50
of
those
mitigation
sites.
In
the
20
years
we
have
been
building
and
fulfilling
full
delivery
contracts.
We
have
hired
hundreds
of
land
people,
real
estate
lawyers,
engineers
stream,
designers,
contractors,
equipment,
operators,
tree
planters
and
monitoring
personnel,
and
that
is
an
abbreviated
list.
It
is.
K
K
When
the
state
went
to
the
full
delivery
approach,
all
the
outstanding
needs
were
met
within
just
four
years.
More
than
500
miles
of
stream
have
since
been
contracted
and
over
40
000
acres
of
wetland
restored.
It
wasn't
easy
getting
there,
but
we
did
our
full
delivery.
Rfp
has
survived
and
improved
over
the
last
two
decades.
K
Everyone
in
north
carolina
that
follows
this
obscure
subject
are
big
fans
of
the
program
and
its
accomplishments,
the
dms
program
itself,
the
mitigation
providers,
the
business
community,
our
state
legislators,
the
state
and
federal
regulators,
and
yes,
even
the
environmentalists
fully
and
enthusiastically
support
the
full
delivery
approach
and
are
proud
of
its
accomplishments.
It
takes
like
a
clock
in
north
carolina
and
every
place
it
has
been
used.
We
highly
recommend
the
approach
to
kentucky
and
look
forward
to
answering
questions.
Thank
you
very
much.
H
Well,
I
think
george
told
you
that
when
they've
had
a
backlog
in
north
carolina,
it
took
them
four
years
to
work
out
of
it.
The
current
concern
is:
is
that
the
projects
in
kentucky
the
way
that
they're
being
administered
now
is
like
we
do
in
the
state
highway
road
plan,
the
six-year
road
plan,
we
design
programs,
we
bid
programs
and
we
build
programs
and
that's
the
six-year
road
plan.
H
Private
industry,
on
the
other
hand,
can
hire
people
tomorrow.
We
can
sit
down
at
a
local
restaurant
and
negotiate
the
price
of
land,
and
it
goes
much
quicker,
and
this
is
really
about
what
this
this
whole
job
is
about.
This
whole
discussion
is
about
jobs,
it's
creating
it's!
It's
that
pot
of
money.
That's
sitting
there
that
could
be
hiring.
People
could
be
spending
money
in
local
economies
could
be
restoring
the
environment,
which
fits
everybody's
mission.
The
mission
of.
A
Okay,
we
have
a
motion
and
a
second
on
the
bill,
but
that
we
that
we
do
have
some
members
that
have
some
questions
representing
mccormack.
Do
you
have
some
questions.
E
I
do
I
think
representative
white
has
some
too
richard.
You
want
to
go.
I
Yes,
what's
the
department
of
fish
and
wildlife
resources
what's
their
position
on
this?
Well.
H
It's
been
a
long
time
since
I
was
able
to
officially
speak
for
them,
but
this
is
in
in
our
opinion.
They
should
be
for
this,
because
this
is
another
tool
in
their
toolbox
to
get
the
money
spent
and
and
to
complete
the
reclamation
of
land.
When
we
started
this
program
20
years
ago,
we
knew
that
we
would
be
dealing
with
700
800,
900,
acre
chunks
of
land
thousand
acre
chunks
of
land
with
miles
and
miles
of
streams.
You
can't
believe
how
many
miles
of
streams
are
in
a
thousand
acres
of
kentucky
watershed
and
the
faster.
H
I
Well,
as
the
program
is
now,
private
entities
can
can
do
this
this
job
and
what
you're
proposing
is
that
going
to
take
it
away
from
these
private
entities?.
H
K
An
answer
for
the
way
it
played
out
in
north
carolina:
it
ended
up
being
a
mix
of
a
couple
of
companies
from
out
of
state
with
the
majority
in
state
and
in
fact,
a
lot
of
engineering
firms
that
previously
had
just
in
engineering
and
design
of
streams
and
and
and
work
like
that
they
ended
up
getting
into
the
full
delivery
business
and
actually
working
to
acquire
the
land
and
take
care
of
the
site
long
term
and
build
it.
And
it's
going
to
be
a
local
job
creator
from
top
to
bottom.
K
Some
of
the
finance
and
risk
may
be
taken
by
the
larger
companies
at
first
but,
like
I
said,
we're
still
a
small
business.
You
know
we
work
in
about
six
or
seven
states,
but
it's
not
big
money
and
we
can't
do
it
without
the
local
people.
It's
an
absolutely
local
job
from
finding
the
land
to
purchasing
the
land
to
any
kind
of
design
has
to
be
done
locally
because
you
have
to
be
out
there
very
frequently
to
do
it.
J
Maybe
I
could
try
to
this
may
get
a
little
technical,
but
the
notion
is
that
currently,
the
state
works
through,
what's
called
a
design
bid,
build
program
which
does
involve
local
firms.
It
does
involve
some
out-of-state
firms
as
well
to
design
and
then
bid
and
then
build
these
projects.
The
problem
is
that
that
program
just
takes
a
very
long
time.
J
It's
very
iterative
in
process
and
doesn't
allow
for
private
capital
to
come
in,
which
is
what
we
bring
outside
of
the
state
to
go
and
accelerate
that
work
under
a
turnkey
or
full
delivery
program
like
it's
being
proposed.
It
allows
firms
to
with
a
contract,
go
ahead
and
spend
private
capital
to
go
ahead
and
put
those
jobs
on
the
ground
immediately
with
the
promise
that
they
ultimately
will
be
able
to
sell
the
project
to
the
inlu
fee
later,
and
so
the
big
difference
is.
J
It
brings
all
of
that
job
workforce
forward
versus
spreading
it
out
over
the
next
three
five
ten
years,
and
we
absolutely
so
far
have
used
all
local
firms.
But
what
firms
like
we
do
is
we
bring
the
outside
capital
so
that
we
can
accelerate
that
work
and
get
the
jobs
on
the
ground?
Now.
K
Yeah,
I
think
it's
important
to
note.
I
know
nick
would
agree
that
we
we
don't
profit
on
these
jobs.
Originally
we
invest
in
them
the
profits.
These
jobs
extend,
I
believe
in
kentucky.
Would
it
be
five
or
seven
years
nick,
but
they
go
out
a
long
long
time,
they're
paid
incrementally
over
years
and
any
profit
we
make
is
all
at
risk
to
the
last
year,
so
we're
investing
for
four
or
five
years
to
get
through
a
a
a
long
multi-year
program
and
get
it
on
the
ground
now.
K
E
Let
me
put
it,
let
me
put
it
to
you
this
way.
You
would
be
the
contractor
on
these
jobs
and
then,
primarily,
you
will
sub
them
out
or
either
hire
local
people
to
do
the
work.
Is
that
correct?
K
We
don't
have
any
designers
in
our
firm
nor
any
construction
equipment
or
any
of
that
we
operate.
We
locate
the
the
sites
and
we'll
do
some
of
the
negotiating
with
local
people.
Generally
we
have
local,
landmen
and,
and
then
we'll
perform
it
with
with
with
local
people.
All
of
our
people
are
experts
in
the
disciplines
that
they
manage,
but
they
do
not
perform
the
work,
so
we
would
have
managers.
K
You
know,
we've
only
got
17
people
in
raleigh,
but
if
we
had
three
or
four
mitigation
sites
up
there,
we'd
have
about
20
or
30
people
working
locally
to
implement
them.
J
This
would
be
competitively
bid,
so
firms
like
ours
and
like
restoration
systems
would
be
contracted
with,
but
it
would
be
available
to
all
firms,
both
in
in
state
and
out
of
state
to
competitively
bid
and
bring
projects
forth
that
the
state
could
then
choose
to
accept
or
not
it
really
just
allows.
You
know
creativity
and
private
sector
to
bring
opportunities
to
the
table
where
right
now,
there
really
is
no
mechanism
for
for
folks
to
bring
opportunities
to
the
luffy.
E
I
was
my
whole
goal
for
coming
to
frankfort
was
to
protect
and
create
jobs
for
people
in
eastern
kentucky
in
my
district
and
we've
been
hit
hard
by
the
coal
industry,
so
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
the
opportunity,
if,
if
those
waterways
in
our
area
became
available,
that
people
would
have
an
opportunity
for
employment.
G
E
Constituents
that
felt
like
this
might
prevent
some
of
the
local
people
from
bidding
on
the
contract.
E
K
If
I
may,
in
north
carolina,
the
bids
are
very,
very
frequent.
It's
a
very
liquid
market.
It's
not
like
a
state
computer
services
contract
where
you're
going
to
go
out
and
get
one
firm
to
do
it.
We've
had
hundreds
and
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
rfps
in
north
carolina
and
anybody's
willing
to
participate
and
market
participants
come
in
and
out
of
it,
depending
on
whether
you
know
they
thought
it
was
in.
You
know
an
opportunity
to
do
business.
A
So
let
me
ask
the
question
so
that
you
know
if,
when,
when
you're
looking
at
locating
a
project
or
whatever,
and
then
you
determine
what
needs
to
be
done,
is
do
any
any
of
the
local
contractors,
then
are
they
able
to
view
that
that
there's
there's
there's
an
actual
rfp
out
there,
where
they
can?
You
know
bid
on
that
particular.
This
is.
A
Finance
cabinet:
okay,
okay,
representative
wesley,
you
have
a
question:
okay,.
L
Just
a
brief
comment:
I
appreciate
you
bringing
this
bill.
This
is
a
win-win-win
for
folks
all
across
kentucky
on
all
different
sides
of
this
issue,
and
you
know
right
now,
just
looking
at
this
graph,
I
mean
we're
spending
4.6
million
dollars
a
year
on
these
projects
right
now,
and
there
is
148
million
dollars
in
that
pot
and
so
talk
about
bringing
jobs
and
making
sure
those
local
contractors
represented
mccormick.
L
It's
going
to
make
sure
that
money
gets
out
there
gets
in
our
district,
gets
spent,
fixes
the
streams
but
they're
going
to
those
local
contractors
they're
going
to
benefit
greatly
from
this,
whether
they
get
the
big
contracts
at
the
top
end
or
whether
they
are
contracted
out
to
do
some
of
the
small
work.
There's
going
to
be
a
lot
more
money
out
there
for
anybody
in
this
field,.
I
I
J
So
the
history
of
our
involvement
in
kentucky
actually
came
about
because
two
firms
won
a
design
firm
in
lexington
and
tom
stream.
Restoration
systems
is
based
in
pikesville,
I
believe,
came
to
us
because
they
were
trying
to
do
work
for
the
inland
feed
program,
but
couldn't
get
through
that
process,
and
so
they
said
eip.
Could
you
come
and
basically
provide
us
the
capital
so
that
we
can
build
projects
to
satisfy
mitigation
needs?
J
And
that's
that's
what
we've
done
so
all
of
the
work
we've
done
to
date
that
I
described
earlier
has
used
only
kentucky
contractors
and
I
think
if
they
were
here
today,
what
they
would
say
is
that
the
involvement
of
firms
like
us
and
george's
really
allows
them
to
move
forward
more
expeditiously
more
efficiently
and
actually
drive
down
the
cost.
We
sell
our
credits
at
a
price,
that's
below
what
the
loot
fee
charges
because
of
the
efficiencies
that
we
can
bring
in
in
not
having
delay
and
so
forth.
J
So
it
may
seem
a
little
counterintuitive,
but
the
experience
has
been
that
by
allowing
these
types
of
full
delivery
projects,
you
actually
allow
those
local
contractors
to
have
a
more
efficient
source
of
capital
and
a
way
to
get
the
projects
going.
If
we
will.
A
Well,
I
know
that
what
is
it
about,
15
years
ago
kentucky
we
had
a
a
secretary
of
natural
resources
environment
that
actually
wanted
us
to
take
over
the
404
water.
Permit
things
that
didn't
happen
at
the
time
and
we're
not
here
to
argue
about
whether
or
not
we
should
have
or
shouldn't.
A
You
know
much
of
those
types
of
things
are
completely
out
of
our
control
because
they're
handled
in
washington.
So,
okay,
you
have
a
question:
no
okay.
We
have
a
motion
on
the
bill
and
a
second
please
call
the
roll.
C
C
F
Oh
yes,
I'd
like
to
explain
my
vote
sergeant
chairman
briefly
appreciate
representative
santoro
for
bringing
this
mr
bennett.
Thank
you
for
being
here
today.
I
I
believe
this
bill
has
a
potent,
has
a
potential
to
have
a
very
positive
impact
in
my
district,
particularly
in
lawrence
county,
and
I
look
forward
to
moving
moving
this
bill
forward
and
learning
more
about
what
you
all
have
to
offer.
Thank
you
all.
C
A
A
B
Representative
stevenson,
yes,
representative
wesley.
C
I
Let
me
can
I
explain
my
vote.
Yes,
I
told
tom
on
the
phone.
You
know
I
would
be
behind
this
and
I
did,
but
since
that
time
talk
and
I
was
elected
to
represent
my
constituents,
I've
had
some
calls
about
this
bill
and
I'm
gonna
have
to
vote
no,
but
it's
it's
passed,
so
I
don't
think
that
would
affect
it.