►
From YouTube: Bourbon Barrel Taxation Task Force (7-22-22)
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Okay,
he
and
I,
and
for
before
we
get
into
this
individuals,
have
noticed
that
I
have
not
allowed
anybody
to
sit
in
front
of
me
now
that
nobody
is
within
six
feet
of
me.
I've
taken
off
my
mass
because
last
week,
I
tested
positive
for
covid
I
have
done
my
five
days
in
quarantine
and,
as
I
understand
the
CDC
protocols.
As
long
as
no
one
is
within
six
feet
of
me,
I
can
unmask.
A
Therefore,
I
am
doing
that
at
this
point
in
time
and
representing
McCoy
believes
he
will
be
positive
or
maybe
symptomatic
at
least
right
now
and
has
accordingly
chosen
to
zoom
in
to
this
meeting.
I
think
that's
right,
representative
McCoy.
B
You
are
correct,
sir
I've
been
traveling
a
lot
and
I've
got
some
symptoms.
I
keep
testing
negative,
but
I
thought
I
had
abundance
of
caution.
I
would.
A
A
Okay,
so
let
me
do
this.
If
we
could
would
and
I
have
to
say
this,
this
has
been
13
years
since
I've
chaired
a
committee.
A
When
I
was
the
Judiciary
Committee
back
in
well,
I
guess
14
in
2008,
the
chair
of
the
Judiciary
Committee,
so
I
have
to
kind
of
get
used
to
this.
But
if
we
could
would
our
clerk,
please
call
the
roll.
A
Here
we
do
have
a
quorum.
Would
there
be
a
motion
to
adopt
the
minutes
from
the
last
meeting
motion
a
second
without
objection
so
ordered
now,
Central
Higdon,
you
have
some
guests
here
want
to
be
recognized,
so
you
could
recognize
those
guests.
Thank.
D
You
Mr
chairman,
half
of
Marion
Nelson
County,
showed
up
this
morning,
I
appreciate
them
being
the
leadership
of
of
the
two
counties
and
to
be
brief,
I
won't
call
Everybody
by
the
name
but
have
the
Nelson
County
Judge
Marion
County,
Judge,
Marion,
County
economic
development,
director
of
Delegation
for
Marion
County
schools
and
the
Nelson
County
sheriff
and
the
Marion
County
Sheriff.
So
they
appreciate
them
being
here
today.
They've
they're,
very
interested
in
this
issue
and
I
appreciate
them
making
that
trip
today.
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
A
Thank
you
and
and
I
do
want
to
say
this
about
the
issue,
because
several
people
were
not
able
to
be
here
and
they've
notified
us
that
they
have
other
commitments
and
I
understand
this.
A
But
I
don't
generally
do
this
and
you
don't
have
two
members
of
leadership
generally
doing
this,
but
this
industry
that
about
the
the
the
Distillery
and
and
bourbon
industry,
is
a
large
Partners,
had
tremendous
success
and
creates
an
image
for
this
state
that
I
think
that
we
all
want
to
have
and
when
I
travel
and
I
travel
extensively
on
occasions,
you
generally
hear
about
two
things:
about
Kentucky
one:
it's
either
horse
racing.
Let
me
say
three
horse
racing,
Kentucky,
basketball
or
bourbon
and
was
just
in
Quebec
City
and
somebody
found
out.
A
I
couldn't
answer
all
the
questions
in
the
restaurant
about
bourbon
that
they
had
for
me
and
particularly
why
we
couldn't
find
some
Bourbons
in
some
places,
but
it
also
has
implications
not
only
the
industry
but
to
County
systems,
taxing
districts,
school
systems
and
it's
an
important
issue.
So,
if
at
all
possible,
I
would
encourage
interested
parties
to
be
here
and
giving
us
the
information
that
we
have
requested,
because
we
do
not
and
representative
McCoy
and
I
have
talked
about
this.
We
have
no
agility
preconceived
notions.
A
We
want
to
make
sure
that
this
is
fully
vetted
to
see
if
there
is
something
that
can
be
done
to
help
the
industry
continue
to
grow,
but
we
don't
want
to
shoot
ourselves
in
the
foots
and
damage
our
local
school
systems,
our
local
taxing
entities
and
our
local
County
governments.
So
with
that,
the
first
person
I
want
to
ask
to
come
up
to
the
table
was:
is
Jennifer?
Oh
our
Senate
budget
staff
member
to
discuss
what
we
put
out?
A
What
representative
McCoy
put
out
last
time
in
our
meeting
for
a
short
response
to
the
question?
Are
these
numbers
accurate
and
what
response
we
have
had
from
the
respective
entities
that
have
reviewed
these
numbers?
That
I
think
several
people
were
involved
in
putting
together
and
putting
into
the
chart
and
if
I'm
not
badly
mistaken
I
believe
that
chart
is
in
our
packets
in
small
print
but
Jennifer.
If
you
would,
since
you've
kind
of
coordinated
this.
A
For
me,
please
come
up
and
take
a
seat
and
give
us
what
you
have
Acquired
and
information
about
these
numbers
that
were
distributed
and
I'm,
not
sure
if
everybody
wants
to
see
this
is
the
piece
of
paper
in
our
handout
that
I'm
speaking
of.
E
Hello,
my
name
is
Jennifer
Rowe
I'm,
a
senate
budget
majority
staffer
and
I'm
Staffing
The
Bourbon
Barrel
task
force
for
the
Senate
majority.
I've
been
asked
to
look
at
the
numbers,
the
tax
estimates,
the
expected
gain
or
loss
that
these
County
systems,
cities
and
taxing
districts
may
experience.
If
we
remove
the
Bourbon
Barrel
tax
from
the
property
tax
roll.
We
the
last
task
force
meeting
the
Kentucky
distillers
provided
the
document
that
President
Stivers
was
talking
about
that
was
in
your
packet
last
month
and
again
is
in
there.
E
Also
that
shows
those
projected
estimates,
those
gains
and
losses
for
all
of
those
parties.
During
that
meeting,
the
members
of
the
task
force
asked
those
individual
parties
and
representatives
to
look
at
those
numbers.
Do
some
research
on
them
to
see
if
that's
what
they
were
expecting
and
any
other
input
that
they
had
as
we
move
along?
We
have
received
responses
back
from
all
parties.
E
Most
parties
would
have
liked
to
be
here
today
and
and
talked
on
about
their
specific
review,
but
many
had
engaged
pre-engagements
that
they
weren't
they
weren't
able
to
attend,
but
saying
that
there
was
no
one
that
responded.
We
responded.
We
got
responses
from
Keiko
we
received
from
from
the
Kentucky
League
of
cities.
We
received
responses
from
ksba
Kentucky
state
board,
Association
the
for
school
districts
and
from
Mr
Truesdale,
who
is
representative
of
the
Jefferson
County
school
districts.
E
All
everyone
primarily
agrees
with
all
of
the
numbers
that
were
provided,
except
there
are
some
conflicts
in
the
net
loss
to
the
individual
districts
versus
what
this
When,
comparing
what
the
distillers
calculated
versus
what
KDE
and
ksva
and
Mr
Truesdale
have
calculated.
It's
not
a
big
difference.
Overall,
it's
like
a
seven
hundred
thousand
dollar
difference
in
all,
but
that
also
that
document
is
also
now
included
in
your
all's
packets
for
review.
So
you
can
see
the
difference
per
District,
based
on
kde's
estimate
versus
the
distillers
estimate.
E
There
are
numerous
things
that
could
have
made
that
happen.
Tier
one
is
one
of
those
things.
No
one
wants
to
get
in
the
weeds
and
know
about
that,
but
usually
tier
one
is
a
calculation
that
is
the
same
calculation
but
there's,
but
it
can
change
sometimes,
and
when
that
change
happens,
it
can
totally
change
the
seek
numbers
for
districts
and
it
just
takes
a
little
something
to
to
to
make
that
change
happen.
E
Also,
I've
talked
to
some
other
interested
parties
that
are
looking
at
school
district
numbers
and
their
thoughts
also
are
that
maybe
some
numbers
are
different
because
the
the
assessment
included
in
school
districts,
the
school
district
assessments
from
the
distillers-
includes
not
only
the
certified
assessment
for
school
districts
only,
but
maybe
county
or
city
assessments
as
well
other
okay.
So
that's
the
report
back.
Basically,
everybody
is
okay
with
the
numbers
saying
that
there
were
some
very
good
follow-up
questions
and
that
we
need
to
look
at
as
we
go
forward
looking
at
impacts.
E
One
really
good
question
is
about
what
happens
to
the
tax
rate
calculations.
So
if
you
take
distilled
Spirit
taxes
off
the
property
tax
roll
and
then
you
can't,
you
calculate
what
you're
compensating
tax
rate
is
going
to
be,
or
your
four
percent
tax
rate
is
going
to
be
that's
going
to
be
different
than
it
was
when
distilled
Spirits
was
on
the
tax
roll.
So
what
that
will
look
like
and
what
that
means
is
still
to
be
determined.
E
We
have
some
of
the
parties
that
ask
that
question
looking
into
it
themselves
as
well
as
staff
that
we
have
are
looking
into
that
as
well,
along
that
same
line.
It's
another
question
for
school
district
with
assessments,
if
you
what's
a
very
big
factor
in
how
seek
is
calculated
for
school
districts,
is
based
on
the
total
assessment
for
all
school
districts.
So
if
that
number
Rises
or
decreases
each
then
then
it's
a
state
Equalization.
It's
a
state,
Equalization
total
number
that
can
impact
all
171
districts.
E
So
it
could
be
that
removing
this
from
the
roll
doesn't
do
anything
or
doesn't
make
a
a
big
enough
change
to
to
impact
all
171
or
25.
That's
yet
to
be
determined,
but
we're
also
looking
at
that
after
we
receive
that
question
just
a
couple
of
days
ago
as
well.
So
with
that
being
said,
that's
the
report
based
on
the
responses
we
got
from
the
interested
parties.
A
Thank
you,
Jennifer
I
want
to
have
a
question
I
want
to
see
if
representative
McCoy
is
a
question,
but
I
want
to
understand-
and
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
we're
doing
this-
is
the
complexity
that
it
really
has
on
the
educational
system.
The
chart
pretty
much
sets
out
what
it
is
for
all
the
other
taxing
districts,
but
it
the
other
taxing
districts,
does
not
have
a
safety
net
of
a
backfill
of
a
seek
allotment.
A
Trying
to
figure
out
a
good
County
here,
let's
pull
out
Nelson
County,
not
because
I'm
picking
on
you
representative,
Senator
Higdon,
but
they
get
six
million
dollars
in
taxes
to
the
local
school
systems
from
the
ad
form
tax.
On
Bourbon
barrels.
That's
correct
is
that
I
think
that's
what
the
chart
shows.
E
A
So
what
you're
saying
on
the
compensating
rate
is
you're
removing
if
we
were
to
do
something
about
removing
the
tax
all
together
and
removing
that
as
taxable
property,
it
would
impact
what
the
local
school
board
could
do,
and
a
local
school
board
has
the
ability
to
do
a
four
percent
increase
on
what's
called
a
compensating
rate
without
going
to
a
referendum.
If
it
goes
higher
than
that,
it
has
to
be
placed
on
the
ballot
for
a
recall.
E
A
So
you'd
be
removing
in
essence
not
just
six
million
dollars
in
Revenue,
but
55
million
dollars
in
property
tax
value,
which
would
then
impact
what
the
school
board
could
do
on
their
annual
vote
to
do,
compensating
rate
or
go
above
that
and
have
a
referendum
vote
on
a
five
percent
increase.
Correct.
C
E
Okay,
just
wanted
to
verify
the
Nelson
County.
So
if
you
look
at
just
the
school
district
number
yeah,
it's
going
to
be
4
million,
but
in
the
the
distilled
SP
the
distillers
Association
numbers
has
Nelson
and
Bardstown
lump
together.
Okay,.
A
E
C
Thank
you,
Mr,
chair
I,
do
want
to
just
be
certain
it's
my
understanding
that
Eric
Kennedy
maybe
wanted
to
come
today,
but
scheduling
prevented
him
from
being
here
and
everyone
else
was
given
the
opportunity
to
be
here
but
declined.
Correct.
E
D
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
this,
this
sheet
that
I'm
not
sure
who
put
this
sheet
out,
but
it
it
does
show
loss
of
revenue
for
Nelson
County
School
District
is
6.28
million
and
the
seat
the
seat
backfill.
What
they'd
get
back
from
seek
4.3
million
a
difference
of
about
2
million
dollars
is
what
I
and
I'm
not
sure
who's.
Somebody
would
probably
cover
this
in
a
presentation
somewhere
today,
but
it's
a
very
good,
very
good
chart
of
what
cities
and
counties
would
lose
and,
in
fact,
on
the
Nelson
County
it
goes
across.
D
It
says
that
the
city
of
Barstow
and
the
other
cities
would
lose
121
000
the
county
would
lose
1.1
million
and
extension
service,
85
000
Library,
District
581
000
fire
district
7
000
for
a
total
that
well
it
doesn't.
That
total
is
hard
to
understand,
but
anyway
it
does
give
some
good
numbers
and,
like
I,
said
I'm,
not
sure
where
this
who's,
who
will
go
over
that
today,
but
as
to
just
Kentucky
distiller
Association.
That
gave
put
that
number
out
right.
E
Do
you
also
there's
another
document
in
your
packet
and
it
only
is
related
to
school
districts
only
and
it
it?
This
is
what
I
don't
know
if
you
can
see
from
here,
but
the
distiller's
number
looks
like
this:
it's
got
a
lot
of
data
on
it.
The
one
prepared
by
KDE
looks
like
this
and
it.
If
you
look
at
Nelson
County,
it
only
provides
the
number
for
Nelson
County
School
District
itself.
It
doesn't
go
across
and
give
you
a
total
County
number
it'll.
Just
give
you
the
number
for
the
school
district.
E
D
That
document
she's
the
one
she
was
holding
up
a
fairly
small
print
and
I,
didn't
see
that
it
looked
like
that,
but
I
do
have
the
one
that
you
held
up.
Thank
you.
A
Let
me
let
me
just
clarify
a
couple
of
things
because
representative
Stevenson
raised
this
issue,
we
had
a
response
back
from
everyone
that
was
on
this
sheet.
Some
because
of
scheduling
conflicts,
be
it
other
meetings.
Some
vacations
are
probably
going
to
be
here
to
discuss
this
at
another
meeting.
A
It
would
be
either
mine
or
next
meeting
will
be
representative
McCoy's,
but
this
was
gone
through
that
this
document
was
distributed
at
the
last
meeting
and
we
were
asking
the
respective
interests
to
say:
are
these
numbers
accurate
because
the
distillers
Association,
along
with
other
people
they
consulted
with
thought?
This
was
a
fairly
comprehensive
Revenue
estimate
potential
loss
backfilled
by
seek,
but
as
for
the
cities,
counties
and
other
taxing
districts,
they
have
no
safety
net
of
a
Sikh
reapportionment,
so
they
would
have
a
poor
net
loss
in
revenues.
A
A
This
is
fairly
accurate
and
to
the
question
on
Nelson
County
Nelson
County
has
two
systems,
they
have
Bardstown
independent
and
they
have
the
Nelson
County
system
and
so
that
number
of
six
million
dollars
of
total
tax
receipts
for
the
county
in
the
aggregate
includes
both
the
independent
city
system
and
the
county
system,
and
it's
not
broken
down
between
the
two.
So
is
there
any?
Are
there
any
other
questions
concerning
this
document
or
the
responses
we've
gotten
back
from
the
respective
entities
that
are
represented
on
this
document?.
A
And
I
think
people
now
with
the
two
questions
that
were
posed
to
us
can
see
that
this
gets
into
a
very
tentacled
discussion
about
impact,
not
just
for
the
counties,
but
it
goes
back
into
a
state
calculation
of
the
Sikh
formula
so
with
that
Jennifer.
Thank
you
for
kind
of
briefing
us
and
updating
us
on
the
responses.
A
There's
no
question:
I
want
to
look
to
Chris
Nolan
and
his
group
to
discuss
kind
of
what's
happening
and
why
this
is
a
topic
of
discussion.
Chris
I
know
that
Eric
Gregory
preferred
to
be
here
over
you.
A
We
actually
would
prefer
Eric
Gregory
Over
you
as
well,
but
individuals
have
wondered
why
we're
doing
this
and
you're
here
to
explain
that
question?
Why.
F
F
So,
thank
you
for
the
discussion
on
the
numbers,
the
ones
that
we
provided
were
estimates
only.
We
understand
that
there
are
going
to
be
some
additional
views
and
we
welcome
those
and
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
a
complete
picture
of
the
revenue
we're
talking
about,
and
we
wanted
to
give
kind
of
a
state
of
the
industry
today,
to
give
you
an
understanding
of
why
we're
here
having
this
discussion,
this
isn't
about
just
eliminating
attacks
and
taking
away
any
sort
of
local
revenues.
F
This
is
about
looking
at
the
health
of
the
industry
and
looking
down
the
road
at
what
we
see
coming
and
the
obstacles
and
the
barriers
to
entry
and
and
unfortunately,
the
barrel
tax
is
a
significant
issue
within
our
industry
and
so
we're
trying
to
to
look
forward
and
and
find
solutions
to
this.
So
with
that,
we'll
jump
right
into
our
presentation.
G
G
We
have
a
bunch
of
slides
today,
so
we're
going
to
go
through
these
first
few
fairly
quickly
we're
going
to
be
putting
a
lot
of
information
out
for
people
to
consider
you'll
see
a
lot
of
growth.
Here
you
see
a
number
of
distilleries
throughout
Kentucky,
mainly
centered
in
the
Golden
Triangle,
but
we're
seeing
additional
growth
in
other
parts
of
the
state.
Here's
a
list
of
some
of
our
partners
you'll
recognize
a
lot
of
these
names.
We're
glad
to
have
those.
G
This
is
important.
Now,
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
places
will
talk
about
their
mission,
but
we'll
come
back
to
this
and
you'll,
we'll
you'll
see
it
wrap
back
in,
but
we
passionately
and
responsibly
promote,
protect
and
Elevate,
Kentucky's
signature,
Bourbon
and
distilled
in
spirits
industry.
G
F
And
I
think
that's
the
theme
that
we'll
be
hitting
on
over
and
over
again
today,
as
as
we
focus
in
on
the
barrel
tax
right
now,.
G
The
next
few
slides
you'll
see
that
the
industry
has
experienced
tremendous
growth.
These
are
numbers
from
our
recent
economic
impact
report.
Nine
billion
dollar
industry
payroll
has
gone
up,
the
number
of
jobs
has
gone
up,
you
know
and,
and
the
industry
is
doing
well
and
I
want
to
say
here.
A
lot
of
people
will
say
great.
The
industry
is
doing
very
well,
Payson
pay
your
taxes
and
two
things
can
be
true.
At
the
same
time,
we
can
be
doing
very
well
and
we
can
be
doing
better.
G
F
So
there's
there's
no
question.
Kentucky
bourbon
is
on
a
roll.
We,
we
absolutely
are
everybody's
heard.
The
stats
we've
got
twice
as
many
barrels
of
bourbon
than
people
in
Kentucky
these
days,
a
record
10
million
plus
barrels
of
bourbon
aging.
The
first
time
we've
breached
10
million
in
our
history
production
up
435
percent.
F
We
are
definitely
on
a
roll
and
I
think
this
slide
shows
over
the
last
14
or
15
years,
the
increases
that
we've
had
in
our
industry
and
they're
impressive,
but
I'm
here
to
tell
you
that
didn't
happen
in
Water,
Rising
and
then
breaching
a
dam
and
just
flowing
over.
It
didn't
didn't
just
happen
like
that.
F
This
growth
happened
because
the
icons
in
the
industry,
from
Bill
Samuels
down
to
Max
Shapiro
and
every
in
all
the
other
new
entrants
into
this
industry
sensed
this
growth
coming
and
saw
it
in
the
Horizon
and
put
together
business
plans
to
account
for
this
growth,
and
so
we
have
been
methodically
growing
our
industry
and
growing
The
Bourbon
Trail.
In
order
to
accommodate
the
growth
in
the
industry
that
we
have
been
foreseeing.
F
A
A
Okay
and
don't
mean
to
tear
off
any
scabs
here,
but
when
you
say
this
I
want
to
understand
who
this
is.
When
you
say
this
is
the
Kentucky
distillers
Association,
there
is
one
entity
that
is
not
involved
in
your
Association.
Does
this
number
include
their
expansion
and
investment.
A
F
G
Okay
and
as
as
well,
if
I
can
make
one
point
on
that
quickly
and
and
I
know
many
of
us
it
in
Economic,
Development
backgrounds
and
County
Economic
Development
backgrounds
recognize
that
at
any
time
there
are
also
other
projects.
Looking
at
Kentucky
deciding
on
Kentucky
this
3.3
that's
coming
in
the
next
few
years.
That
is
only
what's
announced.
There's
there
is
all
the
likelihood
that
there's
more
out
there,
too.
F
And,
as
you
can
see
on
this
slide,
we're
paying
30
today
we're
paying
33
million
dollars
in
Barrel
taxes,
whereas
just
back
in
2009
we
were
paying
10.7
roughly
11
million
dollars
in
Barrel
taxes
and
you'll,
see
throughout
this
presentation
that,
as
the
industry
continues
to
grow,
that
number
varies
every
year
and
it
could
very
easily
go
back
to
a
10
million
dollar
number
and
as
we
continue
to
talk
about
being
on
a
roll,
you
can
see
with
this
slide.
F
That
distilling
has
far
outpaced
the
other
manufacturing
growth
and
the
Commonwealth
over
a
10-year
plus
period
of
time,
and
this
is
where
we
wanted
to
pause
and
say.
Thank
you,
because
that
a
lot
of
this
growth
would
not
have
happened
without
the
general
assembly
and
the
support
that
you
all
have
have
given
the
industry.
F
Unlike
a
a
farmer
or
an
auto
manufacturer,
we
need
ural's
help
in
order
to
grow,
especially
as
we've
grown
The
Bourbon
Trail.
We
could
not
have
done
that
without
all
the
changes
that
the
general
assembly
has
given
us
in
terms
of
privileges
to
grow
that
Pro
that
opportunity
on
the
Bourbon
Trail.
So
we
wanted
to
say
thank
you
and
we
do
understand.
There's
alcohol
fatigue
in
the
general
assembly
a
little
bit
that
chain
without
chain.
You
know
we
recognize
that
change,
isn't
without
its
its
controversy
and,
unfortunately,
we're
still
living
under
prohibition
era.
F
Laws
written
some
90
years
ago
and
we're
in
a
completely
different
world
than
90
years
ago
was,
and
so
we
are
continually
going
to
be
changing.
If
we're
going
to
meet
the
consumer
demand
out
there
and
again,
you
all
have
done
a
tremendous
amount
to
get
us
there,
and
we
very
much
appreciate
that.
So
the
the
big
question
that
we
want
to
address
today
in
a
little
bit
more
depth
is
how
long
can
this
boom
last?
F
We
are
seeing
unprecedented
challenges
both
at
home
and
abroad.
Five
different
categories,
we're
going
to
run
through
today,
the
exorbitant
exorbitant
and
anti-competitive
taxes,
the
trade
Wars,
the
pandemic,
our
regulatory
environment
and
competition
on
taxes,
I
think
we've
outlined,
and
we've
talked
to
almost
all
of
you
all
individually
over
the
years
that
we
are
the
highest
tax
industry
in
the
state.
You
can
see
here
seven
different
taxes
on
every
bottle
of
spirits
in
Kentucky.
F
We
went
through
a
lot
of
this
last
month
with
the
presentation
that
was
made,
but
60
percent
of
every
bottle
of
spirits
goes
to
taxes.
We
are
a
very
high
tax
industry
and
in
terms
of
the
federal
excise
tax
we
pay
more
than
60
percent.
More
than
California
does
we
pay?
This
state
pays
more
than
any
other
state
in
the
in
the
nation,
1.8
billion
dollars
in
federal
excise
taxes.
F
Why
are
our
Spirits
taxes
so
high?
It's
grown
over
the
years
and
again,
this
is
a
slide
that
just
details
a
lot
of
what
was
presented
last
month
on
the
wholesale
tax
that
we
are
taxed,
both
on
volume
and
value
of
our
product
and
then
the
additional
taxes
that
were
added
in
2009,
and
we
are
the
only
jurisdiction
in
the
world
that
taxes,
aging
Spirits,
no
other
jurisdiction
does.
F
F
In
this
slide.
These
next
three
slides
are
super
important
to
our
industry.
When
we
look
at
competitiveness
and
we
have
to
be
competitive
in
today's
Marketplace
but
Kentucky
taxes,
its
Spirits
industry,
higher
than
most
every
other
state
in
our
competing
state
of
Tennessee,
we're
almost
double
what
what
they
charge.
For
instance,
if
you
look
at
California
and
Oregon
and
their
wine
industry,
they
tax
their
wine
industry
at
some
of
the
lowest
rates
in
the
nation
and
they've
done
that
in
order
to
grow
their
industry.
F
And
that's
what
we're
trying
to
do
today
with
the
Bourbon
Trail
we're
trying
to
build
the
Bourbon
Trail
as
as
quickly
and
safely
as
we
can
without
overextending
ourselves,
because
we
know
competition
is
coming
and
we
know
change
is
coming
to
our
industry
and
if
we
can
solidify
the
Bourbon
Trail,
we
can
help
that
tourism
economy
in
our
state
grow
long
after
our
bourbon
boom
hits
its
peak
the
same
with
beer.
This
chart
shows
that
Colorado,
Missouri
and
Wisconsin
how
they
treat
their
signature.
F
But
our
restaurants
and
bars
plummeted
during
that
time,
as
you
can
imagine,
and
the
Kentucky
Bourbon
Trail
attendance
plunged
66
percent
and
we
still
continue
to
face
supply
chain
shortages
and
glass
and
barrels
and
malted
barley,
as
well
as
Workforce,
with
hospitality
in
front
of
the
house
like
a
lot
of
Industries.
Are
this?
Is
this
is
our
our
Frontier
right
now
is
is
exports,
that
is
the
New
Frontier
for
our
industry.
That
is
really
fueling.
F
A
lot
of
our
growth
and
tariffs
were
a
took
a
dramatic
hit
on
our
industry
from
1997
to
2017
over
those
20
years.
We
had
no
tariffs
on
distilled
Spirits
until
we
got
into
the
export
war
and
we
received
tariffs
from
both
the
EU,
including
the
UK
and
you'll,
see
in
this
slide.
Our
exports
dropped
by
nearly
half,
and
that
is
was
a
huge
hit
to
our
industry,
especially
after
they
were
growing
at
a
98
clip
in
the
10
years
or
seven
or
eight
years.
Prior
to
that
we
hope
this
returns.
F
G
If
I
can
make
one
one
quick
tie-in
to
that,
one
of
the
major
goals
is
to
create
bourbon
enthusiasm
across
the
world
in
other
countries,
because
its
enthusiasts,
who
will
also
travel
to
Kentucky
and
tourism,
is
a
major
source
of
income
for
the
state
and
for
for
local
entities.
We
want
to.
We
want
to
build
our
exports
and
build
that
enthusiasm,
while
bourbon
is
hot.
F
So
it
brings
us
to
I,
probably
the
the
biggest
issue
we
want
to
focus
more
time
on
today,
which
is
which
is
competition,
we're
under
under
threat
and
and
these
numbers
just
came
out
and
I
think
it
illustrates
a
lot
of
what
we've
been
seeing.
That
tequila
has
taken
the
U.S
sales
lead.
The
agave-based
spirits
surpass
both
rum
as
well
as
bourbon
in
in
sales,
and,
as
you
see
here,
bourbon's
growth
was
10
percent
in
agave-based.
Spirits
grew
close
to
20
percent.
F
This
is
a
Telltale
sign
for
us
in
our
industry
that
white
Spirits
may
be
seeing
a
Renaissance
in
this
country,
just
like
brown
Spirits
did
10
years
ago.
So
as
we
look
down
the
road,
which
is
what
we're
trying
to
take
a
big
picture
view
of
the
bourbon
industry,
we
see
threats
like
this
on
the
horizon
and
so
our
while
we
have
10
million
barrels
Aging
in
Kentucky
and
they're
being
taxed
on
those
barrels.
That
may
not
always
be
the
case
we
could.
F
We
could
find
ourselves
back
in
the
days
of
the
70s
and
80s,
where
we
had
some
of
the
lowest
inventory.
If
we
don't
do
things
to
help,
keep
our
distillers
competitive,
so
there
are
now
almost
2
300
craft
distilleries
around
the
United,
States
and
you'll
see
Most
states
have
a
lot
more
than
not
most
a
handful
of
states
have
a
lot
more
than
we
do.
You
look
at
California
with
190.
F
Texas,
with
135
New
York
with
180
and
we're
sitting
in
the
50s,
and
the
reason
for
that
is
is
this
quote,
which
was
from
last
September
bourbon
feels
intrinsically
connected
to
Kentucky.
95
percent
of
the
juice
on
the
market
is
made
there,
but
bourbon
doesn't
have
to
come
from
Kentucky
when
it
comes
to
rules
about
location.
The
only
thing
that
matters
it
is
that
it's
made
in
the
United
States
and
with
bourbon
booming
barriers
to
entry
decreasing
and
craft
distillers
thriving
that
95
percent
number
is
starting
to
drop
as
bourbon
distillers
pop
up
Nationwide.
F
F
So
these
are
all
recent
ads
that
are
out
there
and
circulating
the
one
on
the
left
says:
there's
a
short
list
of
ingredients
that
make
great
Bourbon
and
no,
it
doesn't
have
to
include
Kentucky
bourbon
is
bigger
than
Kentucky.
You
have
a
campaign
out
of
Texas.
The
state
of
bourbon
is
changing
step
aside,
Kentucky
there's
a
new
state
of
bourbon
and
then
again
on
the
right
turns
out.
Bourbon
is
America's
native
Spirit,
not
just
Kentucky's.
F
F
If
you
don't
think
people
are
out
there
trying
to
take
what
we
have
they
are,
and
then
this
one
is
kind
of
creative,
but
don't
get
it
don't
get
k-wide
with
your
bourbon
as
a
trademark,
I
think
they're
trying
to
say
don't
get
screwed,
but
we're
falling
behind
the
number
of
distilleries
in
the
U.S
grew
230
percent.
Since
2015.
we're
now
12th,
we
have
fallen
again
in
the
number
of
distilled
Spirits
permits
in
the
United
States.
Just
this
year
we
fell
the
12th
11.
F
You
hope
you
operate
your
Distillery
and
again
in
just
showing
how
the
marketplace
is
Shifting
away
from
Kentucky.
In
2009,
this
slide
shows
43
percent
of
the
distilling
jobs
in
the
United
States
we're
in
Kentucky
43
percent.
We
had
we
had
the
marketplace
today
or
as
of
last
year,
it
it's
down
to
30
percent,
so
these
jobs
are
not
coming
to
Kentucky
at
the
rate
they're
going
to
other
states,
for
instance,
Tennessee
drawing
a
Line
in
the
Sand
trying
to
lure
Kentucky
distillers
across
the
border
and
they're
doing
so.
F
They've
got
no
state
income
tax,
we're
headed
in
that
direction
and
that's
good.
They
have
no
Barrel
tax
in
Tennessee
and
their
Spirits
tax
rate
is
70
percent
lower
than
Kentucky.
They
now
have
104
licensed
distilleries
and
they
have
a
Tennessee,
whiskey
Trail
and
they
don't
hesitate
to
brag
about
it.
This
was
their
president
of
the
guild
from
a
year
or
two
ago,
their
former
president.
Now
it's
time
for
Kentucky
bourbon
to
move
over
and
follow
our
lead,
so
Kentucky
can't
afford
to
lose
its
distilling
dominance.
What?
F
F
We
need
to
make
this
discriminatory,
Barrel
tax,
refundable
or
eliminate
it
reduce
distilling's
overall
tax
burden,
I.E
the
addressing
the
wholesale
tax,
providing
parity
with
beer
and
wine
here
in
Kentucky,
create
a
competitive
ready
to
drink
tax
rate
and
continue
to
remove
regulatory
obstacles
that
restrict
our
growth
and
allow
us
to
compete
with
other
states.
F
F
But
again
it
is
a
discriminant
discriminatory
tax
that
no
other
jurisdiction
in
the
world
levies
and
requires
a
Spirits
company
to
Levy.
It
is
a
product
of
the
administration
from
decades
ago
and
from
court
cases
that
have
determined
that
you
know
after
two
years,
A
Barrel
in
a
warehouse
is
a
finished
good,
which
we
very
much
disagree
with.
F
F
So
the
barrel
tax
credit,
as
we
know,
was,
was
established
in
2014
and
that's
when
the
general
assembly
made
the
policy
decision
to
refund
these
discriminatory
Barrel
taxes
to
the
state's
growing
signature
industry
and
we
created
The
Bourbon
Barrel
tax,
reinvestment
credit
that
we
had
to
any
of
that
credit
that
we
got.
We
had
to
invest
back
in
our
facilities.
F
But
the
credit
isn't
working
today.
Initially,
it
was
working
well,
we
were
reinvesting
in
in
our
properties
and
we
were
able
to
feed
that
bourbon
boom.
That's
that
we
were
seeing
coming
on
the
horizon,
but
Barrel
production
has
jumped
at
436
percent
that
we
discussed,
and
now
there
aren't
enough
credits
available
for
us
to
offset
the
rising
Barrel
taxes.
Some
distilleries
are
getting
only
a
small
percentage
on
the
dollar
and,
yes,
those
credits
carry
forward,
but
they're
accumulating
at
a
rate
that
we'll
never
be
able
to
to
realize
or
monetize.
F
So
the
the
ask
is
to
remove
this
barrier
to
entry
for
new
distillers
wanting
to
establish
their
operations
in
Kentucky.
I
can't
tell
you
how
many
of
the
distillers
we
we've
talked
to.
There
are
some
that
have
not
come
to
Kentucky
because
of
this
Barrel
tax.
Very
large
one
in
Texas
is
one
example.
It
chose
Texas
over
Kentucky
because
of
the
barrel
tax
and
then
several
of
our
existing
distilleries,
almost
everyone
that
has
come
to
Kentucky
in
the
last
10
years
that
we've
talked
to
had
to
think
long
and
hard
and
said
the
barrel.
F
F
Instead,
we're
asking
the
general
assembly
to
work
with
us
and
think
big
picture
and
remove
this
barrier
to
entry
in
our
industry
and
grow
the
pie
for
everybody
and-
and
we
believe
that
welcoming
startup
distilleries
and
taking
full
advantage
of
Market
preference
for
Kentucky
bourbon
will
increase
the
number
of
of
counties
and
communities
with
distilleries,
create
new
jobs
and
increase
property
tax
values.
Increase
employment
increase
wages,
create
new
business
opportunities
for
Farmers
suppliers,
tourism,
hotels,
airbnbs,
restaurants,
downtown
revitalization.
F
We're
gonna
we're
gonna
miss
out
on
this
piece
distilleries,
continue
to
add
numerous
tax
revenue
sources
for
counties
and
communities
and
again
touched
on
a
lot
of
these,
but
property
values,
employment,
tax
bet
and
restaurant
taxes
for
local,
overnight
accommodation,
accommodations
sales
increases
at
local
shops,
restaurant
bars
and
new
contracts
and
purchases
from
local
farmers.
So
we
we
want
to
be
collaborative
with
our
local
communities
and
find
a
way
to
get
rid
of
this
discriminatory
tax
or
make
it
refundable
in
a
way
that
it's
not
a
barrier
for
the
next.
F
The
next
generation
of
distilleries
that
want
to
come
to
Kentucky
we're
not
advocating
to
just
eliminate
this
tax
and
say
our
local
governments.
You
know
make
do
with
what
you
got.
We
we
want
to
be
collaborative.
We
have
constantly
told
them
when
called
by
them.
Let's
get
together
and,
let's
all
sit
down
and
I,
think
that's
what
this
task
force
is
doing.
F
It's
bringing
us
all
to
the
table
to
recognize
a
situation
we
see
coming
on
the
horizon
for
the
bourbon
industry
and
saying
we've
got
to
find
a
solution
and
the
barrel
tax
is
the
biggest
problem
we
face
out
there
and
it's
more
about
attracting
the
next
craft
distiller
here
than
it
is
about
giving
a
tax
break
to
a
large
distiller.
That's
all
here.
F
The
years
is
that
each
Distillery
has
given
a
helping
hand
to
another
Distillery
when
one
got
in
trouble,
whether
it's
it's
it's
the
the
fire,
the
terrible
fire
from
decades
ago,
everybody
pitched
in
to
help
that
Distillery
get
back
on
their
feet
and
that's
the
type
of
community
we
have,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
can
nurture
that
next
new
distiller
that
wants
to
come
to
Kentucky,
but
we
have
to
have
to
come
to
Kentucky
first,
and
this
is
the
biggest
reason.
So
we
think
bourbon
provides
a
return
on
investment.
F
Tax
revenue
to
the
state
and
local
governments
has
increased
from
107
million
dollars
in
tax
revenue
in
2009.
to
286
million
in
2021.
167
percent
increase.
That's
that's
175
79
million
dollars
in
new
tax
revenue
this
over
the
this
last
year
than
we
had
in
2009.
That
is
going
to
primarily
the
state.
So
we
think
a
returning
33
million
dollars
in
Barrel
taxes
and
that's
33
million
this
year
could
be
40
next
year
or
it
could
be
20
next
year
is
a
great
return
on
investment
to
grow
those
overall
numbers.
D
Thank
you
Chris,
and
on
page
43
of
your
your
slides
there.
D
Okay,
that
that
first
statement
there
make
the
discriminatory
discriminatory,
Barrel
tax,
refundable
or
eliminated,
while
preserving
local
Revenue
I.
Think
that's
why
we
have
this
task
force
is
to
figure
out
the
that
both
sides
of
that
any
ideals
from
you
on
preserving
local
Revenue
I.
Think
that's
one
of
the
biggest
questions
we
have
to
face.
F
Yeah
and
great
question
I've
been
lobbying
for
the
industry
advocating
for
the
industry
for
for
close
to
15
years
now,
and
every
year
we've
been
up
here
asking
to
address
the
barrel
tax
every
single
year,
and
you
all
fortunately
made
that
policy
decision
in
2014
to
give
us
the
tax
credit.
The
simplest
way
to
do
it
would
be
to
make
that
tax
credit,
refundable,
which
is
we
continue
to
pay
the
locals
the
taxes
and
the
state
reimburses
us
for
that.
F
For
that
payment,
but
I
understand
that's
a
broader
policy
discussion
for
you
all
as
policy
makers
to
decide.
If
that's
the
type
of
policy
you
want
them
have
in
the
Commonwealth,
we
have
it
in
a
few
other
Industries,
but
not
many,
and
we
recognize
that.
That's
the
simplest
way
to
do
it
beyond
that.
F
I
think
what
this
task
force
is
is
here
to
do
is
to
look
and
see
what
other
ways
are
possible
and
we
want
to
be
collaborative
with
our
local
communities,
see
how
seek
could
backfill
a
big
chunk
of
it
see
what
leftover
monies
are
not
covered.
If
the
barrel
tax
is
eliminated,
see
how
we
might
be
able
to
cover
those
funds,
and
then
how
do
we
make
our
local
governments
a
whole
in
the
process.
D
E
D
D
You
know
is
that,
as
that
continues
to
grow,
we
don't
know
where
that
stopping
point
or
leveling
out
point
is
I
I
hope
it
continues
to
grow.
At
the
rate.
That's
it's
going
but,
like
I
said,
that
is
the
the
million
dollar
question
or
30
million
dollar
question.
F
A
doubt
if
we
don't
make
some
changes
in
our
industry,
that
number
will
not
continue
to
grow.
We're
facing
such
stiff
competition
distillers
are
going
to
start
going
to
other
states
and
and
that's
what
we
see
as
we
in
its
job.
It's
not
just
Jack
and
I
sitting
here
telling
you
that
I've
had
conversations
with
the
CEOs
of
all
the
distilleries
and
our
icons,
whether
that's
Bill,
Samuels
or
Jimmy,
Russell
and
Chris
Morris.
F
G
If
I
can
add
one
point
to
that,
I
had
a
conversation
earlier
this
year
with
a
an
executive
with
a
large
bourbon
company
here
in
Kentucky
that
does
a
lot
of
contract
distilling
and
is
working
with
15
to
20,
distilleries
or
Brands,
who
eventually
want
their
own
home
place,
distillery
distillery
at
any
time
he's
working
with
these
companies
and
he
said:
look
we
passed
that
Barrel
tax
right
along.
You
know
we
distill
for
them.
We
Barrel
we
age
for
them
and
we
pass
that
Barrel
tax
right
along
to
these
startup
brands.
G
F
And
the
most
attractive
state
right
now
to
go,
buy
what
we
call
buy
juice
in
the
open
market
to
create
a
label
if
you're
not
distilling
it
yourself,
you're
buying
it
in
the
open
market.
It's
Tennessee
they're,
buying
the
juice
from
down
there
and
they're,
putting
a
label
on
it,
calling
it
Bourbon
and
being
successful
with
those
brands.
A
A
Let's
I
want
to
understand,
and
maybe
other
people
to
understand,
because
some
people
say
well.
You've
got
to
be
distilled
and
aged
in
Kentucky
to
be
bourbon.
That's
not
accurate.
A
F
If
it
were
immediately
moved
over
to
another
state,
I,
don't
believe
so,
and
I
need
to
double
check.
We
had
this
conversation
last
night
and
I
didn't
have
a
chance
to
pull
the
statue,
but
I
think
it
has
to
be
aged
at
least
one
year
in
Kentucky
to
have
the
the
label
Kentucky
bourbon
on
your
bottle.
Two
years
I
see
somebody.
A
G
Yeah,
you
could
do
that
for
at
least
a
year,
Aging
in
Kentucky
and
then
move
it
and
would
not
be
taxed
and
it
wouldn't
be
taxed.
A
You
know
you,
when
you
think
about
food
everybody's
got
to
buy
food,
it
doesn't
matter
what
the
price
is.
You
know
you've
got
to
buy
that,
but
models
and
discretionary
income
are
totally
different
than
those
for
which
you
have
to
have
mandatory
purchases,
and
you
basically
are
you
know
mandatory,
but
that's
what
I
call
them.
F
A
Have
to
buy
food,
you
don't
have
to
buy
bourbon,
so
the
elasticity
of
the
model
is
totally
different
on
the
sales
and
The
Business
modeling
that
you
put
forward,
but
in
this
I
have
I
go
through
this.
A
A
We
did
the
dollar
for
dollar
tax
credit
and
phased
it
in
over
a
few
years
period.
That
was
a
really
interesting
night
when
that
Amendment
got
filed.
Remember.
A
But
since
then,
you
all
have
established
and
I
don't
know,
I'm
gonna,
say
established,
but
maybe
not
necessarily
proven
growth
and
I
and
the
reason
I'm
saying
that,
because
at
a
point
in
time,
then
you
can
prove
it
because
you
can
show
what
your
tax
receipts
are.
Well,
not
your
attack.
We
can
show
what
your
tax
receipts
are
on
what
has
been
paid.
A
Therefore,
you
have
proven
the
growth
not
just
and
I,
don't
think
you're
going
to
overestimate
and
overpay
taxes.
So
it's
probably
a
pretty
accurate
reflection
of
what's
been
done
on
property
taxes,
corporate
income,
taxes,
state
withholding
taxes
for
income
and
also
occupational
taxes
that
are
collected
at
the
local
level,
local
jurisdiction
and
I,
don't
know
so
the
two
and
then
there
would
be
an
increase
back
to
what
I
talked
about
black
acre
on
this
multi-billion
dollar
investment.
F
I,
don't
think
so.
I
would
have
to
consult
and
happy
to
do
so
with
Dr
Coombs.
Who
does
our
our
annual
economic
impact
statement
I
think
that
gets
about
as
as
granular
as
we
can
get,
but
I
don't
know
that
we
can
determine,
for
instance,
the
occupational
taxes
paid
in
Nelson
County
or
the
city
of
Bardstown.
What
percentage
of
those
occupational
taxes
are
paid
by
Distillery
employees?
I?
Don't
think
we
have
that
level
of
of
of
detail.
So.
A
A
Since
that
time,
you
cannot
quantify
the
growth
of
your
industries,
industry
and
the
payment
of
local
increased
property
tax,
be
it
ad
valorem
versus
going
into
all
right.
We
built
a
rick
house
that
was
whatever
x
value
that
that
added
that
increases
their
property
tax
payment.
We
and
I'm
gonna
go
to
Claremont.
You
know
all
the
stuff
they've
done
at
Jim
Beam
at
Claremont,
they've
done
the
the
this
destination
site,
they've
added,
more
Rick
houses.
A
People
are
asking,
you
know
little
restaurants,
everything
else
that
goes
along
with
it,
there's
no
way
that
somebody
can
quantify
what
that's
increased,
their
property
tax
and
the
receipts
at
the
local
level.
At.
F
A
A
F
A
A
F
If
we
could
do
that,
we
have
not
gone
that
far
in
the
numbers,
but
we
yeah
the
the
main
numbers
that
we've
done
on
our
economic
impact
is,
is
shown
on
this
slide
and
it
it's
the
it's
the
barrel
tax
numbers
and
with
the
wholesale
taxes,
excise
taxes
and
everything
else
collected
that
the
state
receives
every
year.
We're
at
about
286
million.
A
A
That
was
a
comparable
drop
in
occupational
tax
receipts
as
well,
but
on
the
other
side,
if
that
had
just
flattened
out,
you
think
about
you
know
having
two
million
dollars
more
over
the
last
eight
years,
since
we've
seen
that
in
property
tax
base.
Well,
that
would
have
been
great
if
it
was
just
stagnant.
A
We
would
be
in
wonderful
position,
but
we're
not
projecting
any
growth,
but
this
is
an
industry
you're,
projecting
growth
in
therefore
you're,
not
sitting
at
seven
million
dollars
of
receipts,
nor
a
comparable
amount
of
Occupational
tax
receipts
to
the
localities,
municipalities
and
taxing
districts,
you're
hoping
that's
going
to
have
some
type
of
compounding
impact
and
growth
over
the
next
few
years.
If
that
respective
industry,
be
it
the
coal
industry
or
not
bourbon
industry
or
not,
and
it's
basically
what
Georgetown
has
seen
with
Toyota.
F
One
one
last
question
that
we
do
have
a
projection
from
Paul
Coombs
that
I
I
can
get
and
bring
to
this
committee,
and
it
might
be
worth
to
to
have
Dr
Coombs
come
and
talk
with
this
committee,
where
he
has
projected
the
amount
of
additional
economic
impact
that
the
bourbon
industry
will
have
on
local
Communities
going
forward.
And
it
was
something
around
55
million
dollars
of
economic
growth
in
these
local
communities.
But
but
to
put
that
in
context,
I
would
like.
A
But
but
our
question
is
and
that
that's
really
what
we're
looking
at,
because
we
don't
Audis
and
local
taxi
districts,
but
you
know
that
impact
broken
down
on
yeah.
This
is
the
growth.
What
is
it
going
to
be?
What
is
that
impact
going
to
be
on
actual
receipts
so
and
I
think
that
would
be
very
helpful
to
know
in
the
in
the
long
term?
Maybe
the
person
we
should
have
been
listening
to
all
the
time
is
Center
Angel
since
she's
a
former
PVA.
E
C
Thank
you
Mr
chair
and
you
started
hitting
on
part
of
what
I
was
sitting
here.
Thinking
about
in
so
we've
talked
about
the
fact
that
there's
a
bourbon
boom,
but
you
also
mentioned
that
tequila
is
now
starting
to
rise
and
we're
seeing
maybe
a
Resurgence
of
clear
Spirits.
So
can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
where
you
feel
that
we
are
in
a
in
a
boom?
Do
we
feel
like
we've
hit
Pete?
Do
we
feel
like
Peak
is
still
coming,
and
should
we
repeal
this
tax?
C
F
I
think
the
answer
to
your
first
question:
you
know:
where
are
we
in
this
boom?
I
I
think
you'd
get
a
different
answer
from
each
individual
person.
We
certainly
hope
we've
not
hit
it.
The
trade
Wars
and
the
tariffs
have
have
really
really
caught
had
an
impact
on
our
industry
because,
like
I
said,
that's
our
new
frontier
and
this
10
11
million
barrels
of
bourbon
Aging
in
Kentucky.
A
lot
of
that
that
growth
is
projecting
sales
in
New
Markets,
whether
it's
Australia,
whether
it's
the
Pacific,
Rim
and
China,
and
places
like
that.
F
We
projected
a
lot
of
growth
in
those
areas
and
these
tariffs
put
a
halt
to
that,
and
these
tariffs
then
caused
several
of
our
major
exporting
companies
to
lose
tens
of
millions
of
dollars
a
quarter,
and
you
know
that
type
of
thing
then
causes
them
to
constrict.
You
know
their
employment
and
their
production,
and
things
like
that
now
that
the
tariffs
have
been
removed.
F
We
hope
that
recovery
happens,
but
I
think
it
just
depends
on
who
you
ask,
because
there
are,
there
is
discussion
in
the
industry
that
that
boom
is
could
very
well
come
to
an
end.
In
a
matter
of
years,
a
couple
of
years
that
we
could
see
a
Resurgence,
we
saw
the
the
you
know
vodka,
in
what
the
90s
and
how
flavored
vodkas
just
went
nuts
in
the
90s
that
didn't
last
long
and
we
hope
in
our
boom
has
lasted
longer
than
that,
and
we
hope
it
continues.
F
F
Are
super
popular
and
and
to
to
president
Stivers
point
you
know
we
will
see
that
10
million
if,
if
the
boom
starts
slowing,
we'll
see
that
10
million
drop
to
nine
and
eight
and
seven
million
barrels
as
we
start
selling
that
product
and
not
replacing
it
as
quickly,
which
means
our
local
tax
base
and
this
Barrel
tax
will
start
to
shrink
again
and
then
Employment
would
start
to
shrink
again
because
we
won't
be
running
seven
days
a
week
and
we
won't
be
running
multiple
shifts
and,
and
things
like
that,
so
we're
we're
trying
to
kind
of
look
big
term
and
this
Barrel
tax
was
a
problem
15
years
ago
and
it's
still
a
problem
today.
F
I,
don't
know
if
that
answered
your
question.
If
I.
G
Could
add
to
that
too?
Briefly,
you
know
you
asked
about
the
future
projections
for
bourbon.
We
could
also
look
at
tourism,
look
at
The,
Bourbon,
Trail
attendance,
and
that
has
grown
every
year
since
it
was
established
with
the
exception
of
2020,
for
obvious
reasons,
and
and
just
like
Chris
mentioned
about
about
trade
Wars
and
building
back
from
that,
we
want
to
build
back
tourism
and
an
essential
part
of
that
tourism
is
an
essential
and
growing
part
of
that.
G
Tourism
is
the
craft
tour,
and
so
people
are
going
to
more
rural
locations
as
well,
and
people
from
across
the
United
States
and
across
the
world
are
coming
to
Muhlenberg
County.
You
know
to
see
the
the
bar
Distillery
they're
coming
to
locations
where
they
may
not
have
a
major
tourism
draw,
and
so
we
want
to
continue
to
enhance
that
and
continue
to.
We
want
to
ask
you
all
to
help
help
us
make
Kentucky
the
best
environment
to
attract
these
startup
distilleries.
C
Oh
one-off
comment
to
that
would
be:
should
we
move
down
the
road
and
we
do
move
forward
with
this
proposal?
I
would
love
to
see
us
talk
about
how
some
of
the
counties
that
are
the
most
affected.
By
pulling
this,
you
know
what
could
we
do
to
incentivize
any
new
folks
that
come
in
to
go
to
those
counties
to
to
as
part
of
helping
to
replace
that?
But
my
follow-up
question
was
going
to
be
about
ready
to
drinks.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
that?
C
The
state
of
it
here,
for
so
everyone
here
knows
exactly
what
we're
talking
about
and
possible
projections
that
we're
looking
at,
for
that
is
they
do
like
they're
hugely
popular
right
now
and,
as
we
all
know,
you
know
people
love
to
be
able
to
throw
drinks
in
their
cooler
and
go
and
then
just
be
able
to
pull
something
out
and
and
take
it
instead
of
having
to
to
mix
while
you're
on
a
boat
or
whatever.
So
can
you
talk
about
that
a
little
bit,
please
sure.
F
F
So
the
best
example
is
probably
a
canned
Margarita
or
canned
Bourbon
and
Coke,
and
those
have
become
real
popular
they're
popular
in
other
markets.
I
mentioned
Australia
earlier
I
think
they're
rtds
of
a
bourbon
and
Coke
are
super
popular
there,
and
so
that
isn't
with
the
trulies
and
things
like
that.
That's
really
been
a
growth
area
for
a
lot.
We
have
we've
seen
the
malt-based
ones
come
to
Kentucky.
The
spirits
based
ones
have
been
slowed
to
come
to
this
Market
because
of
the
high
tax
rate.
F
They
would
be
far
more
expensive
than
a
malt-based
competitor
would
be
so
they've
been
slow
to
show
up
in
this
this
Market.
But
if
you
go
to
Florida
California
Colorado
places
like
that.
The
end
caps
in
grocery
stores
and
liquor
stores
are
full
of
these
rtds,
and
so
the
key
to
that
in
Kentucky
is
obviously
it's
it's
two
or
three-fold,
but
the
first
one
is
the
tax
rate.
F
Hopefully,
having
parity
among
a
tax
rate
that
that
the
tax
rate
should
be
based
on
the
alcohol
by
volume,
so
if
anything
is
under,
say
10
12
14,
it
should
all
be
taxed
the
same,
regardless
of
whether
it's
a
malt
base
or
a
Spirits
based.
That's
not
the
way.
It
is
today
and
then,
where
you
sell
those
products,
so
a
malt
base
truly
can
be
sold
in
a
grocery
store
today,
but
a
Spirits
based
ready
to
drink
cocktail
that
has
the
exact
same
alcohol
percentage
cannot
be
sold
in
a
grocery
store.
A
And
I
agree
with
you
that
any
anything
the
sale
of
alcohol
is
going
to
impact.
You
know
beer
out
wines,
Bourbons
I,
have
to
even
say
there's
actually
a
song
that
talks
about
having
your
Yeti
110
and
I
stabbed
with
bullets
pretty
popular
right
now.
But
any
further
questions
in
this
realm
and
and
I
want
to
say
this
to
you,
representative,
Stevens
Stevenson.
A
E
A
Do
on
property
taxes
by
the
Constitution,
which
raises
an
issue
altogether,
but
representative
Huff,
you
had
a
question
a
few
minutes
ago
and
I
think
I
passed
over
you
I
apologize
for
that
I'm,
I'm
Rusty
after
14
years,
not
doing
a
committee.
Anyone
else
got
a
question
representative
McCoy.
F
A
A
And
as
Miss
Hayes
is
coming
up,
members
will
note
that
the
chair
of
the
Senate
licensing
and
occupations
committee
has
joined
us.
A
lot
of
these
things
have
gone
through
his
Committee
in
the
past
few
years
and
has
asked
permission
to
join
in
on
viewing
this,
but
is
not
a
member
of
the
committee
so
welcome
Sandra
schickel.
A
H
Jennifer
Hayes
I'm
committee
staff
administrator
for
the
Appropriations
and
revenue
committee
here
with
lrc
and
staff
to
this
committee,
you'll
see
that
we
are
going
to
talk
about
some
constitutional
provisions
and
some
court
cases
that
are
specifically
related
to
the
property
tax
on
distilled
spirits.
H
There
are
three
basic
Provisions
in
the
Constitution
that
I
want
to
start
with,
and
you
can
see
those
three
listed
here
that
property
shall
not
be
Exempted
from
taxation.
Property
shall
be
assessed
at
Fair.
Cash
value
and
property
shall
be
taxed
according
to
that
fair
cash
value.
So
with
those
three
Provisions
you
would
think.
Okay,
there's
nothing
I
can
do,
but
let
me
say
that
there
is
an
exception
to
these
three
General
Provisions,
but
we
need
to
look
at
each
of
the
three
Provisions
first.
H
So
section
three
of
Kentucky's
Constitution
is
printed
in
its
entirety
right
here
on
the
screen
that
provision
in
section
three
it
was
ratified
in
1891
and
has
not
been
amended
so
wow
Chris
was
talking
about
90
year.
Old
statutes
were
talking
about
Century
old,
at
least
Century
30.
130.
Okay,
thank
you.
Senator
Stowers,
130
year
old
constitutional
provisions,
the
applicable
part
is
underlined
on
the
screen
that
says
no
property
shall
be
exempt
from
taxation,
except,
as
provided
in
this
constitution,
keep
in
mind,
though
there
is
an
exception.
H
The
next
section
of
the
Constitution
is
section
172
once
again,
ratified
in
1891
has
not
yet
been
amended,
and
that
is
all
property
shall
be
assessed
at
Fair
cash
value.
The
applicable
language
once
again
is
underlined.
All
property,
not
Exempted
from
taxation
by
this
constitution,
shall
be
assessed
for
taxation
at
its
Fair
cash
value.
H
H
So
there
are
the
three
basic
principles
that
apply
to
all
property
for
property
tax
purposes
in
Kentucky.
Now
here
is
the
exception.
The
exception
is
in
section.
170
I
have
not
printed
the
entire
section
here,
because
it
has
been
amended
at
least
six
times.
I
think
I
counted
six
times,
and
it
is
the
last
once
again
ratified
in
1891
the
original
language
amended
six
times
with
that
last
amendment
being
in
1998.,
and
that
amendment
is
this
last
sentence.
That
is
printed
here
on
the
slide
of
section
170.
H
That
says,
notwithstanding
the
provisions
of
sections
3,
172
and
174.,
those
three
sections
we
just
discussed
of
this
constitution.
To
the
contrary,
the
general
assembly
May
provide
by
law
an
exemption
for
all
or
any
portion
of
the
property
tax
for
any
class
of
personal
property,
so
think,
back
to
our
discussion
last
month
about
classes
of
property
at
the
very
highest
level,
there
are
two
classes:
real,
that's
your
land
and
buildings.
H
H
Let's
also
talk
about
that
word.
Notwithstanding
some
people
go,
oh
I,
don't
know
what
that
means.
You
know
the
dictionary
says
that
is
in
spite
of
so
read
that
in
spite
of
what
it
says
in
these
three
other
sections
of
the
Constitution,
that
may
be
contrary
to
this
look
here,
for
the
exception
related
to
property
tax
for
personal
property.
H
H
It
was
decided
by
the
Kentucky
court
appeals
in
1953
at
that
point
in
time
that
the
court
of
appeals
was
that
Court
was
the
highest
court
in
Kentucky.
The
Supreme
Court
had
not
yet
been
formed
and
the
quote
from
that
case
says
in
an
unbroken
line
of
decisions.
This
court
has
adhered
to
the
principle
that
distilled
Spirits
are,
like
all
other
tangible
personal
property
situated
within
the
Commonwealth
and
are
therefore
subject
to
the
same
statutory
and
constitutional
requirements
which
govern
the
taxation
of
such
property.
Generally,
foreign
t
v
Calvert.
H
It
is
once
again
a
Kentucky
court
of
appeals
case.
It
was
decided
in
1992.
We
did
have
a
supreme
court
at
that
point
in
time.
The
Kentucky
Supreme
Court
denied
discretionary
review
of
this
case,
and
so
the
court
of
appeals
decision
became
the
final
decision
that
Court
said.
It
is
our
opinion
that
the
lower
court
did
not
air
in
its
determination
that
distilled
Spirits
are
tangible,
personal
property
subject
to
the
same
statutory
and
constitutional
requirements
which
govern
taxation
of
such
property
generally.
H
So
those
are
the
three
basic
principles
within
the
Constitution
the
exception
within
the
Constitution
two
court
cases
which
apply
to
these
Provisions
we've
discussed
and
I'd
be
glad
to
take
any
questions
or
do
further
research.
If
this
task
force
deems
that
necessary.
B
I
I
do.
Thank
you
thanks
for
that
that
overview.
Do
you
believe
from
what
you've
got
there,
that
this
gives
the
general
assembly
the
power
not
only
to
to
exempt
distilled
Spirits
as
a
class
of
property?
Does
that
power
also
include
the
ability
to
set
and
or
change
rates.
H
Well,
let
me
first
say
that
you
have
already
changed
the
rate
for
distilled
Spirits
property
tax.
The
normal
personal
property
rate
is
45
cents.
Distilled
Spirits
is
assessed
today
at
five
cents
per
100
of
value.
So
you
have
already
done
that
the
reading
of
section
170
all
I
can
do
is
redo.
What
that
says
there
it.
It
says
the
general
assembly
May,
provide
by
law
an
exemption
for
all
in
that
reading.
I
I
think
you
could
exempt
the
property
I.
H
A
H
A
You
know
again
I'm,
not
the
Supreme
Court
a
lot
of
times.
We
rarely
agree
and
I've
said
that
with
them
on
occasions,
but
Chris
I'm
going
to
look
to
you
or
anybody
with
the
any
other
interested
party.
You
know
the
county
judges
the
mayor's
school
boards.
Anybody
does
anybody
have
any
differing
opinion
on
this.
C
A
A
A
B
A
A
To
pay
to
pay
the
costs
of
the
building
of
the
whatever
that
may
be
and
and
and
I
understand,
we're
going
to
we're
going
to
get
into
because
another
judge
judge
has
raised
that
issue
about
irbs
and
I.
Think
that's
going
to
be
a
discussion
point
in
the
future
meeting.
A
B
No
and
I
I
couldn't
hear
what
the
judges
were
saying,
but
I
do
think.
The
the
IRB
issue
is
something
that
we
we
need
to
get
on
the
table
as
we're
trying
to
get
to
the
magnitude
of
what
the
impact
of
the
counties
will
be.
So
I
hope
that
some
of
our
judges
that
have
that
have
got
that
info.
If
we
could
start
Gathering
that
that
would
be.
A
Great
I
think
that's
one
of
the
discussions
you
and
I
will
have
as
the
co-chairs
of
this
and
directing
our
staff
for
the
next
meeting
that
you
will
be
chairing
about
what
we,
our
next
steps,
will
be
and
I
think
the
IRB
will
definitely
be
on
the
radar
for
that
plane
to
land
at
some
point
in
time.
A
I'm
just
going
to
go
through
this
we're
in
about
an
hour
and
a
half.
We
like
to
keep
these
about
that
time.
I
think
there's
been
a
pretty
good
discussion
about
numbers
are
accurate
or
the
industry
currently
stands,
and
what
the
legal
status
of
a
barrel
and
its
contents
are,
and
what
may
or
may
not
be
done
with
it.
A
A
Well,
we'll
leave
it
at
that
I
think.
Do
we
have
a
scheduled
date,
I
believe
already
on
the
books
for
our
third
meeting,
that
is
agenda?
Oh
yeah,
August,
26th,
I
got
it
and
representative
McCoy
will
chair
at
that
time
and
we'll
try
to
get
an
agenda.
I
would
assume
and
I'm
going
to
look
to
the
screen.
That
irbs
may
be
a
topic
of
discussion.
A
B
No,
but
but
I
would
ask
you
know,
as
we
look
at
Alternatives
coming
up
with,
one
is
not
going
to
be
deemed
to
be
that
you
support
it,
because
I
think
it's
more
important
that
we
get
all
the
ideas
on
the
table
so
that
we
can
figure
out
what
the
ripple
effect
of
those
various
ideas
will
be.
So
if
you're
out
there
I
mean.
Obviously
we've
heard
make
it
refundable
right
that
that's
that's
an
option.
B
A
I'm
going
to
agree
with
that
before
we
go
out
before
we
adjourn
and-
and
this
has
the
along
the
same
vein
is
what
representative
McCoy
says
and-
and
this
has
a
twofold
issue-
what
if
we
capped
at
the
current
rate
that
all
right?
A
You
know
that
we
have
10
million
barrels
and
what
is
there,
those
would
be
taxed,
but
all
future
barrels
above
10
million
would
not
that
would
remove
anybody
coming
in
and
that
would
not
reduce
any
revenues
as
it
would
be
to
the
current
taxing
entities
at
the
local
level.
They
would
know
they
would
have
a
consistent
stream.
That's
why
I
get
back
into
well
you're,
going
to
see
increased
value
to
your
property
and
your
occupational
tax,
because
that
would
hopefully
stimulate
growth.
That's
a
theory!