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A
Call
this
mating
to
order
good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
first
meeting
of
the
interim
joint
budget
review
subcommittee
on
Justice
and
Judiciary
for
the
2023
interim.
Any
meeting
materials
received
before
the
deadline
are
posted
online
and
available
for
downloading.
At
this
time.
We'll
have
the
clerk
to
call
roll.
C
A
D
D
D
First
I'd
like
to
start
out
that
overall,
the
the
Kentucky
State
Police,
you
know
we
I
consider.
We
are
in
a
good
we're
in
a
good
area
at
this
time.
D
The
reason
why
is
because,
first
of
all,
we
were
74th
in
pay
when
I
first
come
here
in
2021,
and
then
we
were
last
in
surrounding
pay
and
then
working
with
general
assembly
and
working
with
the
administration
and
Governor
procedure.
You
know
now
you
know
we
were
in
the
top
five
in
starting
pay
in
Kentucky,
which
that
could
have
changed
some
sense
that
become
effective,
July,
1st
2022
house,
bill
259.,
but
I
do
know
with
that.
D
That
has
dramatically
helped
our
agency
on
three
different
levels,
with
recruitment
and
retention,
and
also
to
ward
off
retirements,
first
of
all,
just
a
little
tidbit
about
us
not
to
step
back,
but
July
1st
will
be
the
75th
anniversary
of
Kentucky.
State,
Police
and
I
would
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
all
the
men
and
women
that
have
wore
this
uniform
and
all
the
support
that
we've
had
from
our
leaders
for
our
agency
to
be
where
we're
at
here.
For
our
anniversary.
D
It
it's
been
trans
transformational
for
our
Troopers
and
our
officers
and
for
one
reason
they
don't
have
to
get
a
second
job
just
to
be
able
to
feed
their
families.
So
with
that
I
think
we've
been
a
success
of
what
pay
will
do.
You
know
for
an
agency,
especially
one
the
size
of
Kentucky,
State
Police,
and
what
we've
been
tasked
with.
D
So
to
talk,
I'll
talk
about
three
different
entities,
as
I
said:
recruitment
retention
and
and
retirements.
First
of
all,
our
recruitment
I'll
do
a
historical
basis
that
was
requested
in
2020.
That
was
Cadet
class
100.
D
D
That
period
was
open
for
10
months
and
we
had
415
applications.
But
one
thing
I'd
like
to
say
with
the
historic
pay
raise
that
we
received.
That
class
was
already
in
five
months
before
that
was
official,
so
it
was
actually
recruiting
on
salaries
prior
to
that.
But
what
I'm
happy
to
report
and
I'd
like
to
take
away
from
here
is
that
we're
currently
recruiting
for
Cadet
class
104..
D
D
So
with
that
we've
been
able
to
advertise
the
pay
increases
that
that
we
were
given
a
starting
Trooper
out
of
that
class,
with
the
the
cliff
stipend
and
per
diem
will
be
making
sixty
five
thousand
dollars
a
year.
D
Our
numbers,
our
recruitment
numbers,
been
very
good
with
that
and
they've
been
some
other
things
as
well.
We've
used
money
that
we
were
given
that
were
five
hundred
thousand
dollars
in
recruitment
efforts
back
prior
to
this
in
2021
and
that
we
were
able
to
expand
our
recruitment
section
to
the
biggest
that
has
been
in
the
history
where
we're
able
to
have
females
minorities
in
there
as
a
because
that's
one
of
the
things
that
really
helps
us
with
our
recruiting
Because.
D
D
D
One
other
fact
before
the
pay
raise
become
into
effect
that
we
were
administered
before
July,
the
1st
of
2022,
with
those
historical
data
that
I
just
talked
about.
We
averaged
31
applications
per
month
after
that,
after
we
received
the
pay
increase
after
July
the
first
now
it's
67
per
month.
D
One
thing
I'd
like
to
mention:
I
talk
with
Commissioners
and
colonels
from
different
state
police
agencies
across
the
country.
Actually
I
flew
in
last
night
from
Mississippi,
where
I
was
at
the
southern
region,
dealing
with
Highway
patrols
and
other
Colonels
from
State
Police
agencies
and
the
one
thing.
When
I
talk
about
our
numbers.
They
want
to
know
what
Kentucky's
doing,
because
they're
nowhere
near
where
we're
at
there
are
a
couple
states
that
are
north
of
us
that
are
doing
comparative
with
us,
but
with
the
numbers
that
we
have.
D
You
know
they're
really
impressed
with
where
we're
at
and
I
discussed
some
of
the
things
that
we've
done,
but
they've
been
a
whole
lot
of
work
in
this
too.
Not
just
bringing
people
in
I'd
be
remiss
if
I
didn't
think
our
entire
recruitment
branch,
our
public
affairs
Branch
for
the
social
Outreach
programs
that
we've
done
in
recruiting
our
our
Academy
staff
training
staff.
That's
a
huge
burden
to
put
on
them
to
train
that
many
men
and
women
to
become
Troopers,
also
with
having
to
do
in-service
training,
to
keep
our
current
Troopers
and
officer
certified.
D
So
I'd
like
to
thank
them.
But
you
know
we
also
put
a
call
out
to
every
man
and
woman
wearing
this
uniform
to
help
in
recruiting,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
those
are
our
best
recruiters,
the
ones
that
they
see
in
the
communities
every
day
and
they
have
seen
the
fruits
of
the
labor
that
they
need
to
bring
in
qualified
people
as
well.
D
So
it's
been
a
it's
been
a
collaborative
effort
on
our
recruiting,
first
with
pay
increases,
but
also
a
lot
of
hard
work
on
the
men
and
women
of
our
agency
and
I'd
like
to
thank
them.
D
When
I
was
here
in
2021,
you
know,
I
was
talking
about
our
numbers.
We
were
in
the
700s,
which
was
the
lowest
we've
been
in
over
30
years,
with
this
class
that
that
talked
about
Cadet
class
103.
That
will
be
graduating
in
August.
That
should
put
us
up,
potentially
with
some
of
our
Trooper
ours,
about
nine
between
900
and
40
950.,
very
a
long
way
from
where
we're
at
back.
Then.
D
D
D
D
Those
resignations
that
we
had
in
those
years
past
over
63
percent
of
those
left
for
higher
salaries
and
60
percent
of
those
went
to
other
law
enforcement
agencies
with
higher
salaries.
But,
as
I
said,
with
House
Bill
259
and
the
raise
you
know,
those
numbers
have
almost
ceased
retirements,
where
we're
at
on
retirements.
That
is
one
of
my
concerns
right
now,
because,
with
the
retention
we
were
able
to
keep
a
lot
of
our
qualified
season,
veteran
men
and
women
with
our
agency,
but
a
historical
on
retirements.
D
D
D
Our
KRS
dealing
with
our
pay
increases
our
pay
scale,
and
there
is
also
a
CPI
within
that
and
I
feel
like
that.
This
is
going
to
maintain
and
keep
a
lot
of
these
there,
but
we
are
going
to
be
facing
some
retirements
coming.
So
that's
why
that
we're
running
these
classes,
that
we
can
Cadet
class
104
that
we're
currently
recruiting
for
will
begin
in
January
of
2024..
D
So
we
expect
that
to
be
another
large
class.
The
class
we
just
started
in
February,
that's
currently
in
is
the
second
largest
starting
class
that
we've
ever
had.
It
was
Cadet
class
103..
It
wasn't
significant,
it
wasn't
a
significance,
but
it
was.
We
started
with
103.
so
that
that
just
kind
of
worked
out
that
way,
but
that's
kind
of
an
over
overview
of
where
we're
at
on
personnel.
D
You
know
one
thing
that
I
was
asked
was
a
you
know
to
be
here,
a
biggest
obstacle.
One
thing
I
do
worry
about.
Is
that
a
lot
of
other
agencies
within
Kentucky
have
brought
their
salaries
up
since
we
received
the
pay
increase
in
July
and
reason
why
we
know
that
is
because
we
have
our
class
what
we
do.
We
start
ever
class
with
traditional
Cadets
and
that's
someone
with
no
law
enforcement
experience,
but
we
also
started
the
beginning
of
it.
D
What
we
call
leap
candidates,
those
are
certified
police
officers
and
they
go
through
an
abbreviated,
Academy
class.
Our
traditional
class
is
24
months.
Elite
candidate
is
13
months.
I'm.
Sorry,
it's
24
weeks
and
our
leap
is
13,
isn't
abbreviated
because
they're
already
trained
there's
a
lot
of
things
they
already
have
so,
but
we
only
have
five
that
will
be
in
this
class
that
are
late
candidates
and
what
we
saw
with
potential
candidates
was
that
they
were
going
to
come
and
put
in
application
at
KSP
and
then
other
departments.
D
D
That
takes
time
it
takes
time
to
get
those
in
there
and
then
with
our
our
budget
with
the
biennium
it's
every
two
years,
but
that's
that's.
My
biggest
worry
right
now
is
just
the
nimbleness
to
be
able
to
deal
for
our
Troopers
to
be
able
to
remain
competitive,
so
we
can
attract
the
best
of
the
best
at
what
we
can
have.
D
That's
really
about
all
I
have
dealing
with
that.
I
give
a
historical
on
that
and
I'll
be
glad
to
take
any
questions.
Questions
from.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chair.
Thank
you
for
that
update.
It
was
really
informative.
I
just
had
a
couple
of
questions
for
you
just
for
my
understanding
in
terms
of
context,
what
is
your
or
what
was
your
target
recruitment
goal
per
Cadet
class
prior
to
the
salary
raised,
and
how
has
that
changed
in
terms
of
how
many
people
you
would
like
to
see,
ideally
in
every
class
applying
and
then
the
second
question
I
had
was
in
terms
of
the
average
age
for
recruits
and
then
the
average
age
for
those
that
are
retiring.
D
Our
the
most
that
we
can
train
in
a
class
starting
out
safely
is
110.,
that's
the
most
that
we
can
put
in
now.
We
do
have
some
mechanisms
that
if
we
have
a
high
dropout
rate
within
the
first
week,
we
can
backfill
those.
So
we
would
like
to
keep
that
as
full
as
we
could.
We
sent
out
over
I
think
over
110
authors,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
112
113
for
this
current
class.
We
just
had
some
didn't
show
up,
so
we
just
had
to
go
with
what
we
had,
but
our
numbers
got
so
low.
D
Well,
the
most
we've
ever
had
was
a
thousand
and
seven
in
2006.,
but
that
included
Cadets.
That
was
in
a
a
current
Cadet
class
that
they
wanted
to
include
at
that
time.
But
really
we
have
not
been
at
full.
We
have
not
been
over
sworn
over
a
thousand
I
know
of
in
the
past
30
years,
so
it
took
us
years
to
get
in
this
shape
to
go
from
near
a
thousand
down
to
seven
in
the
700s,
which
was
critical
levels.
D
D
Kentucky
expects
the
best
product
that
they
can
see
for
a
man
or
woman
in
uniform
out
there
and
we've
not
sacrificed
that.
Obviously,
we
tailor
our
training
with
societies,
social
issues,
but
we
have
not
changed
that
product
because
when
the
worst
things
has
happened
in
Kentucky,
there's
been
a
man
or
woman
in
uniform
standing
there,
whether
it
be
civil
unrest,
whether
it
be
officer-involved
shootings,
whether
it
be
tornadoes
or
Eastern,
Kentucky,
flooding
things
that
we
have
done.
D
You
know
we've
always
been
there,
so
we
don't
want
to
sacrifice
our
standards
and
and
we'll
just
keep
building,
and
you
know
we're
able
to
maintain
I
would
love
to
have
over
a
thousand
Troopers.
But
it's
going
to
take
us
time
to
build
through
that
and
your
second
question:
I'm,
sorry
but
I-
don't
have
the
number
I
can
get
that
to
you
about
the
average
age
of
recruit.
I
would
assume
the
best
that
I
can
remember
around
25
26,
but
I
couldn't
I
would
want
to
get
you
some
official
information,
yeah.
D
E
I,
take
issue
with
the
standards,
and
we
can
talk
about
that
privately,
but
I
do
I,
do
take
issue
with
it
and
I,
but
I'm
glad
to
see
that
it's
on
your
radar
I
want
you
to
know
that
the
most
qualified
person
for
the
job
myself
and
my
con,
the
people
I
re,
represent
that
think
should
be
hired
and
not
political
correctness
should
not
come
into
the
calculation.
E
So
it's
important
to
us
and
I
know
it's
important
to
the
Troopers.
I
talked
to
too
that
the
Integrity
of
the
standards
be
maintained.
D
And
yes,
sir,
and
and
I
think,
we've
done
that
over
our
over
our
Inception
as
an
agency,
you
look
how
professional
and
what
we're
looked
at,
what
kentuckians
look
at
us
and
our
other
state
police
and
Highway
Patrol
agencies
across
the
country,
as
I
said,
I-10
conferences
with
these
other
Colonels.
You
know
we're
75
years
and
we're
still
maintain
our
integrity,
our
professionalism
where
we
can,
depending
on
when
things
like
that
happen,
I'm
a
28-year,
trooper
and
I
started
working
in
Eastern
Kentucky
work.
D
A
I
have
a
few
questions.
Thank
you,
commissioner,
appreciate
your
service.
Thank
you
for
being
here
today.
Thank.
A
A
list
of
questions
here,
I
think
you
have
answered
or
partially
answered
some
of
them,
but
I
just
want
to
go
through
them.
One
of
my
questions
dealt
with
the
numbers
where
we
were
at
and
where
we
are
now
I
think
your
answer
was:
we've
went
from
approximately
721
to
about
approximately
950
at
this
current
time.
Is
that
correct.
D
I
think
it
would
be
up
is
746.
We
didn't
have
Trooper
R's
included
at
that
time,
but
now
we
have
67
Trooper
R's
and
what
that
is,
that
is
retired
Troopers
that
have
come
back
on
a
contract
basis
for
us,
and
those
have
been
very,
very
successful.
That
has
been
a
great
program
for
us
to
be
able
to
fill
our
ranks
on
the
on
the
operational
issues
that
we
need.
D
Well,
we
with
it's,
it's
it's
hard
to
be
able
to
say,
because
we
started
this
class
with
103..
We
have
51
Cadets
remaining,
so
it's
hard
to
be
able
to
project
what
that
will
be,
because
we
have
some
attrition
rates
that
may
be
30
percent.
This
one
is
higher
than
most
so
it's
kind
of
hard
to
be
able
to
project
that.
How
many
is
actually
going
to
graduate
to
be
able
to
know.
D
G
D
Really
can't
run
two
per
year,
they
overlap.
We
would
like
to
look
at
some
things
about
Taylor
and
when
we
start
a
class
each
year,
because
we
have
some
that
are
college
students
and
they
don't
want
to
drop
out
of
where
it
would
be
within
a
semester.
So
we
would
like
to
try
to
get
that
to
where
it
would
be,
like
the
end
of
a
semester
on
college,
for
that
to
work
out.
So
we're
still
working
through
that.
D
That's
something
we
have
done
the
past
few
classes,
because
we
have
some
great
certified
police
officers
across
across
our
our
state
and
those
are
ones
that
you
know
we
would
like
to
bring
in
We've.
What's
what
we
did
before?
We
would
run
one
ever
just
paying
two
three
classes.
What
we
need
for
our
numbers
now
we're
just
making
it
work.
Potential
candidates
know
that
when
State
Police
Stars
Academy
that
the
first
half
of
that
class
will
be
for
League
candidates,
it
will
be
an
abbreviated
class.
So
we'll
do
that
ever
class
going
forward.
A
Okay
last
question
deals
with
the
barriers
to
Recruitment
and
Retention.
What
I
believe
I
heard
you
say
is
that
retirement
is
becoming
an
issue,
and
also
maybe
a
good
problem
to
have
is
that
other
agencies
have
increased
their
pay
based
upon
the
increased
funding
from
the
legislature
going
to
state
troopers.
Those
seem
to
be
two
issues
that
you've
raised.
Are
there
any
other
issues
that
you
see
currently
happening
happening
or
that
you
project
that
will
happen
that
would
affect
Recruitment
and
Retention,
not.
A
G
Hillary
Daley
Deputy
Commissioner
of
support
services
for
the
Department
good
morning.
We've
been
asked
to
provide
an
update
on
our
inmate
population.
Trends
and
I
do
bear
with
me
because
it
is
a
lot
of
of
numbers
for
the
three
fiscal
years.
Prior
to
the
covid-19
pandemic.
The
average
daily
population
was
23
168
in
fiscal
year,
2017.
G
G
fiscal
year,
2020's
actual
felon
average
daily
population
was
23
061.
fiscal
years.
21
and
22
were
18
876
and
18
708
respectively.
For
the
current
fiscal
year,
the
Felon
population
is
averaging
19
740
and
that's
through
this
morning.
It
is
trending
higher
than
the
consensus
forecast
for
the
fiscal
year.
However,
we
are
able
to
accommodate
that
population.
Within
our
current
Appropriations
fiscal
year,
2024's
forecast
is
19
577.
H
Deputy
Commissioners
presentation
covers
the
entire
felon
population
and
we
were
asked
to
speak,
particularly
regarding
the
prison
population
Trends,
so
the
department
houses,
approximately
half
of
its
population
in
prisons,
the
prison
population
between
2017
and
2019
was
trending
upwards.
The
calendar
year
average
in
2017,
was
11
963..
H
H
E
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
that
report.
These
numbers
have
always
been
kind
of
hard
for
us
to
get
our
head
around
and
I
like
the
way
you
just
give
us
the
summer
report,
I
think
in
some
ways
that's
easier
to
understand
that
than
bearing
Us
in
numbers,
but
so
what
I
hear
you
saying
is
basically
a
little
bit
over
half
the
population
is
in
prison
and
the
rest
is
in
the
jails
and
then
an
interactive
supervision
is
that
is
that
is
that
correct.
G
E
There's
no
supervision
numbers
included
in
these
numbers.
These
are
strictly
people
that
are
in
custody.
Yes,.
G
E
Physically
in
custody-
yes,
okay
and
so
the
and
so
basically
about
half
of
those
are
in
jails
and
half
of
them
are
in
prison.
Roughly.
E
Okay,
that's
very
helpful.
I
have
a
follow-up
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you.
I
am
very
interested
in
our
restricted
custody
centers
in
our
jails
and
I.
E
There
was
a
graph
in
our
packet
that
showed
that
those
numbers
are
way
down
and
I
know
from
my
area
and
being
a
former
Jailer
and
we
called
it
a
Work
Camp,
but
I
I
took
great
pride
in
that
that
facility
and
the
impact
it
had
on
my
inmates
in
our
community
and
I
know,
there's
other
facilities
around
the
state
that
feel
the
same
way
and
I
haven't
talked
to
my
Jailer
recent
in
the
last
couple
weeks,
but
I
know
in
fact,
for
a
while.
E
The
facility
was
closed
and
we
weren't
getting
the
benefit
of
the
work
of
those
inmates.
We
weren't
getting
the
per
diems.
We
didn't
have
anybody
in
the
gardens
we
didn't
have
anybody
to
shovel
snow.
We
didn't
have
anybody
to
pick
up
a
litter.
We
didn't
have
anybody
to
clean
up
cemeteries.
We
didn't
have
anybody
to
go
pick
up
roadkill
off
the
road,
so
it
was
a
big
big
issue
for
our
County.
E
How
can
we-
and
it
appears
to
me
anyway
and
and
I,
would
like
for
you
to
either
confirm
it
or
maybe
I'm
wrong?
Is
that
the
answer
is
most
of
these
people
just
aren't
in
jail
anymore,
right
or
or
or
they
somewhere
else,
or
why
is
this?
Why
is
our
restricted
custody
centers
the
cheapest
place
that
we
can
can
house
a
prisoner
and
the
most
productive
prisoners
in
the
state?
Why
can't
these
institutions
get
prisoners.
G
F
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
not
really
a
question
just
kind
of
a
kind
of
an
own
notice,
as
you
all
may
be
aware,
there's
a
jail,
Correctional
task
force
that
has
been
formed.
I
know
they
will
probably
be
reaching
out
to
you
all,
but
for
an
Appropriations
and
revenue
standpoint,
I
know
the
chairman,
Petri
myself,
we're
going
to
be
looking
for
statistical
analysis
and
some
documents
and
historical
Trends.
F
So
if
just
like
to
have
that
relationship,
you
know,
within
this
interim
we're
going
to
be
working
on
that
quite
a
bit,
especially
from
our
standpoint.
So
if
we
can
just
have
that
relationship,
that's
open
we're
going
to
be
back
and
forth
we're
going
to
need
a
lot
of
those
available
to
us.
So
thank
you.
Thank.
A
All
right,
I
have
a
couple
questions
here,
prior
to
covid
and
and
now
what
what
trends
were
driving
the
inmate
population?
Do
you
see
a
difference.
G
A
For
the
current
biennium
is
the
total
inmate
population
above
or
below
what
was
estimated
for
Budget
purposes.
E
And
no
it's
a
question
that
Mr
chairman
I
want
you
to
know.
I
appreciate
your
Indulgence.
Thank
you
and
it
goes
a
little
bit
to
the
question
you
asked
Mr
chairman
and
and
if
you
don't-
and
you
may
not
have
the
answer
to
this,
if
you
don't,
if
you
could
get
it
to
me,
I
would
really
appreciate
it,
because
I
think
this
is
something
the
public
needs
to
be
aware
of,
because
it
definitely
affects
prison
population.
E
As
you
know,
there's
been
a
change
in
philosophy
about
people
who
are
granted
parole
and
when
they
do
not
follow
the
rules
for
lack
of
a
better
term
and
back
in
the
old
days
and
that's
called
a
technical
violation
and
for
those
of
you,
people
who
are
watching
on
the
computer
or
maybe
at
home.
That
means
that
let's
say
you
get
a
10-year
prison
sentence
for
holding
up
a
gas
station
and
you're
paroled,
but
the
condition
of
your
pro
is:
is
you
can't
go
to
bars?
E
Let's
say:
maybe
you
can't
go
back
to
that
gas
station.
They
have
a
whole.
You
have
to
look
for
work,
maybe
good
alcohol,
Alcoholics,
Anonymous,
I'm,
sure
you're.
Familiar
those
are
all
conditions
of
parole
back
in
the
old
days.
If
you
violated
your
pro
since
you
got
out
of
jail
early
and
didn't
do
your
whole
sentence,
you
got
a
break,
but
you
couldn't
follow
the
rules.
You
went
back
to
prison,
but
that's
no
longer
the
case.
The
case
today
is
they
call.
E
It
quote:
unquote
a
technical
violation
which
I
think
is
a
bad
word
for
it,
because
it's
very
significant,
but
they
caught
a
technical
violation
and
they
just
call
you
in
and
say:
well,
you
know
make
sure
you
stay
out
of
bars
or
if
you
do
this
again,
you
might
go
back
to
prison,
but
no
one
goes
back
to
prison
on
a
technical
violation.
You
have
to
commit.
You
have
to
hold
up
another
gas
station
or
commit
a
criminal
act.