Koha-US SIG - Cataloging Special Interest Group, 2 Jun 2022

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From YouTube: Cataloging Special Interest Group - 6/2/2022

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00:15:26 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Model cataloging records on the Koha Wiki (including Book Record Analysis), under “Cataloging:” https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Training_resourcesRDA records, including analytics, in a list in SF Maritime NHP’s catalog:https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-shelves.pl?op=view&shelfnumber=52&sortfield=titleOCLC’s Bibliographic Formats and Standards guidelines for “In Analytics:”https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/specialcataloging.html#inanalyticsMARC21 Bibliographic Formats, 76X-78X Linking Entry Fields:https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd76x78x.htmlHelpful book, written with AACR2R examples (old, but not “wrong!”):http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/12634753If you have access, LC-PCC PS (Library of Congress Program for Cooperative Cataloging Position Statement) 2.12, “Series statement”, and series vs. serial is covered in the CONSER Cataloging Manual 12.2.1 and 1.2Relevant Bugzilla “bugs:” 21472, 16522, 17867, 20751, 27138
00:16:04 Heather Hernandez (she/her): KohaCon: https://koha-us.org/events/conferences/kohacon22/
00:16:46 Heather Hernandez (she/her): "Submit a proposal:" https://koha-us.org/events/conferences/kohacon22/#tab2
00:24:37 Julia Robbins: Those are good images! It's confusing bc magazines are calledserial publications but it sounds like you are saying the different volumes of a continuing range of publications should link in 700's not list the serial title in the 400's? (for example, some health brochures all published with the same format and the same overall titles but different health issues addressed)
00:26:53 Julia Robbins: And the serial goes in 700's?
00:27:11 Bruce Metcalf: Yes, serials in 700s, series in 400s
00:27:35 Heather Hernandez (she/her): 76X-78X Linking entry fields
00:29:42 Jason V (Round Rock Public Library): also fantasticfiction.com for F&SF
00:31:59 Bruce Metcalf: I live with three cats. Very familiar territory.
00:32:22 Julia Robbins: And what about articles within the serials?
00:32:41 Cecil Hillyard: where would the adaptation information go in so it would link. 775 or 776? or another?
00:33:40 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd787.html
00:33:54 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Paired with 580 note.
00:35:38 Jason V (Round Rock Public Library): "FRBRization"/shudders
00:36:14 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.oclc.org/research/activities/frbr.html
00:36:46 Fred King: Thurberization: everything is shapeless, with lots of dogs
00:37:24 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=tolkien+hobbit
00:43:24 Julia Robbins: Is inanalytic record related to inane?
00:45:47 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=&q=lloyd%27s+register+online&weight_search=1
00:46:10 Margaret Brown: Which field did you say could be used for the book plate?
00:46:42 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=36339&query_desc=lloyd%27s%20register%20online
00:46:57 Barbara Johnson: take a look at the URLLinkText system preference
00:47:30 Julia Robbins: Whole different question - I have fiche curriculum guides, where does that info go about the medium?
00:47:53 Heather Hernandez (she/her): A bookplate record: https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=36264
00:48:33 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/specialcataloging.html#microforms
00:48:50 Julia Robbins: Thanks!
00:53:38 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=10131&query_desc=young%20sea%20officer%27s%20sheet%20anchor
00:55:06 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://id.loc.gov/
00:57:23 SUNITA PAREEK: from where I may get the recording of these sessions
00:58:06 Fred King: koha-US YouTube channel
00:58:13 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.youtube.com/c/kohaUS/videos
00:58:33 SUNITA PAREEK: thanks
01:01:14 Barbara Johnson: Additional cataloging resources from koha-US - https://koha-us.org/learn/cataloging/
01:01:17 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/no2018005646.html
01:01:22 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Thank you, Barbara!
01:03:01 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Language note https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd546.html
01:05:49 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd6xx.html
01:06:02 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd650.html
01:07:36 Julia Robbins: What DOES RLIN stand for in the subfield 9?
01:08:50 Jason V (Round Rock Public Library): gotta head along to my next meeting, ciao everyone!
01:08:59 Julia Robbins: Thanks
01:11:47 Sheila Taylor: Thanks! Great session.

A

Hello, everyone- this is the june cataloging special interest group of koha us welcome, we are being recorded and the chat will be captured and posted in the comments section below the video on the coho us youtube channel.

A

uh I'd like to welcome everyone, and I'd like to mention that I'm coming to you today from ho chun the ancestral and unseated lands of the churcheno speaking alone tribe, and we had some questions submitted ahead of time. So the first thing I'd like to dive into today is analytics cataloging records for articles things that are within something else.

B

A

Called in analytics, I've looked at some resources that I'm going to put in the chat heather.

C

Yes, could I make an announcement before we get deep into everything? Of course please quahog khan is going to be coming up in september. I think it's september 20th through 23rd in lawrence kansas, and we are currently accepting uh president uh proposals for presentations um and they are due this friday.

C

So if you want to make a presentation at the quahog con conference, you still have time to submit a presentation proposal.

C

You can just go to the koha us website and click on the conferences link and there should be a a link there for the presentation, form and watch that site we'll be soon coming up with. um You know the schedule and registration and all those things so looking forward to quahog on in september,.

C

And will it be in person or remote? It will be all of those things. It is hybrid, so you can come to kansas. You can stay home and watch it uh it'll be recorded, so you can watch it later.

B

uh When you say fridays, that friday is in tomorrow.

C

Yeah june 3rd.

B

That's what I was afraid of lauren uh look for my email later this afternoon.

B

A

And um do proposals have to be any set length or can you submit say a short topic.

C

So on the forum, there is other three options: actually you can do a presentation, that's uh we have them as like 25 minutes, and you know five minutes of questions they don't actually have to be that long. I mean, if you had something that's a little bit shorter sure. Why not you know, put it in. We have 55 minutes so a longer deeper topic and we also have guided learning opportunities which I believe are going to take place on the last two days, which are generally these sort of workshop hack, fest type days.

C

So you can do a guided learning opportunities and there's an option on the proposal form to submit for something like that too.

A

Great that sounds like it would be really wonderful for people to submit cataloging related things.

A

Think about it! Thank you, barbara.

A

So getting back to the wonderful world of analytics uh the the resources, I've put a lot of resources. I know about in the chat. If anyone knows of anything else, please do share, and one of the questions that came with analytics was what field do you put the information? In so say, I'm cataloging, an article. Where do I put the information for the magazine itself?

A

That's hosting this there's a lot of confusion between linking entry fields which are mark 7, 6 x through 7 8 x, versus series fields, 490, typically 8, 30, pairing and the way I sometimes will it explain. These things is that in analytics are like families.

A

It's like the magazine or anthology.

A

Is the parent who's rich and has a really big house and the article or chapter or song on an album is like the teenage kid living at home and when you've got a family relationship, those are linking entry fields, the 76x and 78x.

A

It's like with a serial that changes its title. That's say the child who has gotten married and changed their name but they're still living at home in the big family compound.

A

So that's a 7 6 x, 7, 8 x, linking entry field now series say the aubry matron novels or the loeb classical library.

A

They are like a street where it's it's been a it's. It's a suburban development. So all the houses look the same, but each house is hosting a completely different family. The only thing they've got in common is that they're all in houses that look the same like they're in bindings, their books and bindings. That look the same. It's a monographic series. It's the uh university of california davis studies in chocolate, all looking the same they've completely standalone families doing their own thing being their own books being their own titles, but they're they're in this.

A

These rappers that look the same. The publisher has issued them to look the same and that's kind of their relationship. That's a series.

A

Now does anyone have um any specific questions, um I'm hoping that people who use the easy analytics feature in koha will have some input. I don't use that feature, so I'm not really familiar with it.

D

Well, I'm sneaking up on this manually uh we've my organization had you know, 17 different magazines, and then we decided to merge them all and publish them under one cover for a while, and yet the internal magazines kept their own volume and issue numbers that were separate from the whole assembly.

D

The sort of thing you get with people who've not worked in the library and seen what kind of mayhem this causes and, in the meantime, everything's changing names.

A

Yes, um there are ways in a serial record to record two different numbering systems and some of the linking entry field relationships are absorbs and is absorbed by.

D

Yes- and those have been put to good use here,.

D

But it is slow and tedious work, particularly for somebody who didn't bother to set up control numbers in the beginning. Now the process of correction.

D

um And that's that's one thing that took me a while to catch on. To is that the uh the linkage between these different things is done with a your your library, id identification in parentheses, followed by your control, number bloody obvious to the people who have been around the block hard to discover for those of us who are new to the neighborhood.

E

Hi, sorry, I'm late getting back from a doctor's office, no problem, lauren bruce. um If you use the automatic link to host records, it fills in the biblio number and the item number okay, which is the same as the control number.

E

What I am so we're on 2105. before this, when you use the auto it would put the 773 information in both records.

E

2105 doesn't do that. It just puts it in the parent record and.

C

E

Do anything to the child record so now I'm trying to figure out how is it supposed to be that way.

A

Well, yes, it's supposed to be that way. The child is supposed to link to the parent. The parent is not supposed to link to the child, but there are bugs that um in bugzilla about this.

D

Are you saying it's not supposed to to link in the the automatic system or it's not supposed to link at all, because there's there's fields set up for that, just that the child link.

A

Well, the child, the child is supposed to always link to the parent, because you need that in order to page it and to find it because it's sitting inside this something else. But you know the uh the cataloging standards as applied- are that the parent doesn't necessarily link to all the children. Now, your catalog, your user, to your service, maybe yeah, maybe you want you just.

D

Pick another 700 line and put it in the parent and that's been working well for me,.

A

Oh and we have something in the comment: uh good images, it's confusing because magazines are called serial publications, but it sounds like you're saying the different volumes of a continuing range of publication should link in 700s not list the serial title in the 400s, for example, some health brochures all published with the same format and the same overall titles, but different health issues addressed yeah um yeah. That's something series.

B

A

Series versus cereal is it's kind of a spectrum. It non-binary, uh if you had different health brochures, that are standing alone and do not have any numbering sometimes numbering is, is a real indicator. It's got.

D

A volume and issue.

A

Number, it's pretty likely a serial exactly if it doesn't have a volume and issue number. It's probably a series series 4xx 8xx serial linking entry field 76278x.

A

um Sometimes libraries decide how to catalog this based on how they're receiving it acquisitions is going to influence this. uh If you, if your acquisitions people need a subscription record, you're, probably going to have a serial record for it, even if it is a series, but you might be cataloging the titles differently.

A

um Well, at 700's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna beg to differ. A 700 is an added entry for a personal name. So we're we're talking- and I put this in the chat. Seven six x, two seven eight x are linking entry fields, yeah siri series in for 4xx 8xx, your 4xx.

A

If you need an access point, the access point is always the 8x. The 4xx. Usually a 490 is exactly transcribed. It's a transcription field used for identification, always exactly transcribed from the item or some other source publisher description. Something like that.

A

The access point, the controlled access point- is always an 8x, usually in 8 30 for title um you don't necessarily need a 4xx. You can use a note and, for example, in my library we like to put uh like the aubrey matron novels. We want them on the shelf in order volume. One volume two volume, three volume, four, so people can just grab them and read them in order, but we don't have them all published the same, so sometimes we'll throw up a note.

A

A 500 note saying this is the fifth novel to feature captain aubry and steven matron, and then we do the controlled 8x field.

D

I'm dealing with a number of series of novels by katherine kurtz and she's. First of all, I have to sit down and read part of them to figure out which series they're in.

A

In figuring out, uh if, if novels, are in a series, I often find that sources like librarything.com are really helpful, sometimes good reads: they tend to have: they tend to being something of a wiki. They tend to track them wikipedia. Even the authors sometimes also have websites.

A

um If it's old say, you've got something from the 1940s or 1920s. uh Sometimes you can search databases, yes, fantasticfiction.com for fantasy and science fiction. Thank you, periodical databases uh going back, or you know new york times. If you have access to that uh the reviews when they review novels, they could say this is the latest to feature uh these characters and it's like ding ding ding. I've got I've got something going on here. That's like a series.

D

The nice authors put the complete list in the front of each book, but that's not to be expected and doesn't help you with the first novel.

B

A

But users usually always appreciate this going into the bibliographic record, especially if they've stumbled across a novel and they like it, and they want to know more. If there is this information in the bibliographic record, that they can click and then you know put their holds on the rest of the series, and you know adaptations, adaptations also tend to you- can use these linking entry fields for adaptations so say and we're getting refurbishing here. You know you want.

A

You want to be able to relate the hobbit movie to the hobbit novels that you have in your collections.

D

Yeah, my problem is more like linking historical fiction to the historical biographies, but that that has some great potential, since they tend to be shelved in far different corners. Yes,.

A

And I want to make a pitch here too, for the fact that our cataloging sig does have an email group feel free to ask, throw it up to the group and say hey: this is a little squirrely. I feel like I'm hurting cats.

A

What do y'all think? Do I have a series here? Do I have a cereal.

E

What field would you use for cereals.

E

To link those together would it I don't think it would use the sear the series field, but I don't know.

A

Those linking entry fields, okay, 76x, to 78x, okay yeah, if if it is a cereal with that kind of family relationship, it's continued continued by absorbed absorbed by split into you know that I've.

D

Got them all yeah.

A

The two, the two kids are man they're doing their own thing: they've changed their name they're establishing their own identity, but you know they're still living in the family compound they're. Still, you know in touch with mom and dad because they're getting their allowance. That's a split into.

E

A

E

A presentation at the next co con and have pictures of all the family.

E

Of cat, even you know,.

D

We can I'm this close to putting up a wall display to help myself understand where these things are going. I've.

A

Actually, I've actually.

D

Used genealogical software to show the relationships in just our own primary publication.

A

Well, bruce, I'm thinking you could be doing a nice presentation, or even some nice uh handouts for the coho website. So we have a question here: where would the adaptation information go so it would link um there? Is this wonderful linking entry field, 787 other relationship entry and you can pair it with a 580 note that explains.

A

The relationship now again make sure your coha catalog is linking that these links work that the 787 is working. You got to test this out. If, if it's not working well or you're uncomfortable using these fields, you can simply explain the relationship simpler. You can explain the relationship in a 500 note and say use a 700 in like in my example, with the hobbit say you know, I've got the dvd of the movie. I can.

A

I can put in a 500 note that says adaptation of the novel, the hobbit by jrr tolkien and put a 700 field for tolkien, double dagger t abit. You know as a controlled and every single coca catalog that will work. That's that's the old school way that we're doing it, but implementing all these linking entry fields with ferberization is boldly going. My catalog it works beautifully, but it depends on what version you are etc. Yes, bruce the.

D

Term ferberization.

B

A

um Ferber, if I'm remembering correctly, is yes functional requirements for bibliographic records. There is a uh wikipedia article, but there is also.

A

Jason jason's shutters, um there's, there's an oclc article on oclc's region, research activities and the ifla's functional requirements for bibliographic records, ifla another acronym here, international federation of library associations.

A

So I'm going to put a link to the article here and when you're using worldcat.org, which is the public interface to the oclc database, you you can see ferberized records, you'll you'll, see a title and I'm gonna, I'm gonna see. If I can pull one up for us and it'll say you know: it'll like cluster, all the additions together and that's kind of living.

A

The dream, uh the dream of these ferberized records is say: you have one work record for the hobbit kind of abstract, with the philosophical thing of the hobbit and it has say perhaps tabs books.

A

Dvds plays audiobooks the manuscript and, in the token papers, all the manifestations. So here I'm going to put a link in the chat to for a search, thurberization.

B

A

Shapeless with lots of dogs- yes,.

A

Now that link to the worldcat search- it's not completely ferberized because you're seeing say it's got the audiobook, but it has a link all formats and languages all editions, the hobbit book, large print, all formats and languages all additions. So it's got some fiberization in that all the audio books are clustered all the large print hard copy books are clustered.

F

And these these heather- I don't know if you sorry heather, I don't know if you noticed. I threw a question, a question in before the one about the adaptation information about articles within the serials. So I I wonder if you could address that. Thank you. They've gone over this before, but but I need it several times.

A

It takes several times and the thing about these little weird cataloging things is they come up infrequently, so it's like. Oh wait a minute. What do we do so?

A

An article within the cereal is that's, what's usually referred to as an analytical record or an in analytic, an article in your cataloging just that article in the larger serial, because it's important to your users, it's it was written by a local author, it's written by one of the library staff, we're cataloging that one, so people can find that that's the in analytic, sometimes called the child record.

A

The serial sometimes called the parent and that's the linking entry.

A

Does that answer your question. Julie.

F

Thanks, yes, that's helpful, so then it goes in the.

F

Okay, then it goes in the 760s or 780s you're saying yes,.

D

Got it? Okay? So you get you get a biblio record for the article that has no items, because it's a part of something else right.

A

Yes, and now it it can or cannot, have an item record people do different things here.

A

Some people put in item records and I do because I want to say have something that displays and in the call number field we we write magazine article to let people know, and I want that item id in case. I want to do some batch item edits.

D

Okay, let me throw some mud in our faces here. There is an article that was published in 32 parts in magazines put out by two different organizations and.

B

D

Organization had magazines with three different titles: where do we bring together all 32 issues.

A

So you're going to have one in analytic record. The 300 field is gonna. Look really strange. It's going to have page uh 7 to 12, comma, page 32 to 34, comma, page, comma, page blah blah blah blah comma. It's going to look really weird or you're going to do something like um various pagings yeah and then you're going to have multiple 773 fields for the host item entries for each one and you're gonna be using in your 773 a subfield g. I believe it is.

A

Let me double check to make sure yes, so the subfield g is going to be saying things or you're going to have your your subfield t to link to that host magazine for just that and your subfield g is going to have something like part, one volume, 12 number three pages, blah blah blah blah and then you're gonna have another 773. That says part two and you're gonna have all 32 parts so that someone can chase all that.

D

And that'll get me through until we publish them all as a book which brings a whole another product, a pile of worms here, yes,.

B

I was just thinking of charles dickens, novels.

D

Being serialized.

B

Yes, sherlock holmes stories.

D

That's why I'm asking I figure. This is not a unique uh piece of stupid.

A

And in the case of something like uh the sherlock holmes stories or charles dickens, serialized novel say uh all those issues of you know say that charles dickens novel was published in the us in harper's weekly and those are now online at archive.org.

A

I can do one in analytic record with the 856 fields to the issues at archive.org for each part.

B

Well, I've probably said this before, but uh you really do need item records, even if it's just uh 952 with a couple of dates and what is because without it uh tends to well. I know you can't export things because my experience is you can't export something without uh something in the 952.

A

Yeah it it, it really helps.

B

You don't need a ball bar code, you don't need a call number. You just need something.

A

We have the in our catalog, we have the location, you know it's you can see in that. I I link to a list in our catalog with some we have. We have some in analytic records that are for the book plates inside the books.

A

We have a question from julie. Did you want to ask it live or is it related to a name.

B

Insane, I think.

A

Yeah, it gets a little mentally gymnastic.

E

I have two questions on your 856 one. Do you have an example where you have multiple 856 for each volume, because I have? I have two records that I know that has this and what they've done is used. The item record each item record holds the url for each part and I'm like that works because I don't know what it's supposed to be. I think it's supposed to be the 856. I think you'd prefer it to be the 856, but I don't know how to get 856 to do that.

A

I do I, I have a record with multiple 856s.

A

And then another related question and I'll just before. Let me ask you put a slight pin in that. One reason why we prefer the multiple 856 fields is they show in the browse list. Your item records are not going to come up and when you've got the browse list, then yeah. So I'm going to put in the link. Okay, well, I'm putting the links in the chat. What's your what's your next question, okay,.

E

The next question r856.

E

um In your search, results, it'll say not available.

E

Or available for loan- and I wanted to say available for download how do I get co? I have a feeling it's a setting somewhere.

E

um That needs to be turned on or we're using the wrong field for something.

A

I I think, uh if you want to change that available for reference available for loan, I think you're.

B

A

Going to be in the realm of xslt or javascript, and I would take that question to this admin group, okay and here's a record- it's got just a couple of d56s, but you know you just you list the 856s and if you take a look at this one and look at the mark, it'll show you the subfields for where you put your display text, and um so what field did I say could be used for the book plate.

A

uh Yeah um I'll, put the I'll put a a link to our book plate record in the chat and oh thank you, barbara. The url link text system, preference awesome.

A

Thank you. Barbara.

D

When I finally found the right preference, it's always got a reasonable name to it. Never can I find it.

E

I have discovered the same problem.

B

I'm just looking at uh I.

B

Catalog we have a lot of online books.

B

Where we get three uses of the book and then we have to buy it, which is good for things that we hardly ever do or need. I just have it as online book and says available for loan, and I haven't worried too much about people getting confused.

A

So we have a a different question, but it is related um uh field. Fish curriculum guides.

A

Where does it go about the medium I'm going to refer again, I'm putting a link in the chat to oclc bibliographic formats and standards very helpful available free for all, even if you don't use the clc, because they've got great examples for microforms.

A

And and how you use those linking entry fields to link to the hard copy to the micro format, hello, sunita, welcome.

A

How are you I'm playing with you?

A

We've been chatting about linking entry fields and in analytic records and serial relationships and micro format, relationships and there's a lot in the chat, but it will be posted with the recording of the video on the youtube channel later. So you can grab all the links and the information and can anybody else if they join light and are not seeing the complete chat.

A

So does anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up uh either on any related to those topics or anything else.

E

I have another, I'm just full of questions today. um What do you do for a book? That's a translation of another book, but it doesn't have the it just has the translated title. They were not kind enough to.

A

E

The original language or the english translation, to whatever language it is written in and I've discovered patrons, tend to like the english translation.

E

When searching for things, where does that information go, and how can I get it to link to that original language? For those who are interested very good question and.

A

It's it's done in different ways, of course, um the the typical I'm I'm typing and looking up translations. um So this is done differently because.

A

Of course, people have been wanting to cluster translations for a very long time, and public libraries are familiar, usually cataloging with clustering with. This is the realm of uniform titles, so the uniform title field, if there is an author, is a 240.. You have a typically a 100 for the author, a 240 for the uniform title and then the 245 for the transcribed title so say uh you know, we've got. um We need the poo in latin.

A

We have a 100 for uh I'm totally blanking arthur milne. Thank you. We have a 100 for mel.

A

We have a 240 for winnie the pooh period, latin, so 240, winnie the pooh period, subfield, l for language, latin and then the 245 winnie elephant.

A

A

Then that it clusters beautifully again, everybody's coho catalog can deal with it. This is very old school. The linking works great with ferberizing.

A

We have people also using linking entry fields again you're getting into, um and there are language linking entry fields for the translations that do it. That way, we're not doing that. We in my catalog we're using 240s, and if there is no personal author, say it's the bible, it's a 130., so 130 bible period, spanish 1, 30, bible period, english and then the 245 is transcribed.

A

The holy scripture, according to et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So um I have a record yes, this is something I catalogued that did not helpfully tell me what it was. A translation of it took a little digging.

A

It is a spanish translation of.

A

I mean it did, but it took some digging because it was like okay, it's a translation of the young sea officers sheet anchor, but there's so many additions of that it was a little crazy yeah and it had a different spine title. So this record has a lot of things going on.

B

um Got the uniform title is that the title of the book as it was originally published,.

D

B

Follow the flag edition or is it something else and let's, let's say um harry potter and the philosopher's stone, which would be the uniform or is there one or am I really confused.

A

Yes, there there is one, it is usually for something published like that. It is the first publication what it's known by and harry potter and etc, etc. uh Where do you find what the uniform title is? uh I like id.loc.gov,.

A

And you can look things up if, if, however, it is something like the bible, it is usually the best known title in the language. So for the bible, the uniform title is used most often in the united states. We are not going back to the council of nicaea in the latin and all that is bible.

D

Okay, let me give you a different example: self-published works.

D

The spine label on the spine of the book is the nutmeggers.

D

The cover of the book is nutmeg notes and the title page says the story of the gewurztraminer family and other nutcracker notes, which one do I use is. Do we default to the title page? The title page.

A

In most of the cataloging codes throughout used in the united states, the title page in the book has precedence. However, say uh 50 years has gone by and many many many editions of this have been published. The author was very lucky that self-published, tiny, privately printed run got noticed by random house and they bought it and they put it out, and then uh they changed the title and it was such a hit. It was written for children and it was such a hit.

A

It was made into four movies and a tv series and an anime run and then there's the manga editions and so from there it was translated. You know those belgian comic artists, it just went around the world.

D

I'd laugh louder if this wasn't typical right.

A

And around the world, it's known as pickle people, yeah you're, going to get a 240 of pickle people. Probably it's it once something is known by a best known thing and again think bible. We know it as bible, sometimes that'll. Be then established as the uniform title.

D

When you, when you've got things were published in the run, press runs of 50 to 100. This is usually not where you are and my favorite of the people who don't bother with the title page. They just have scribbles on the cover and the spine's already been ripped off by the time I get it.

A

If you, if you don't have a title page or say there, isn't it's self-published, there isn't really a title page. Then you you go to other things like the cover, usually the best source of information and a question's been asked. Where will the recording be available of this? It's going to be on the koa us website?

A

Yes, thank you fred and here's. The cover us youtube. Oh.

B

A

Thank you, fred.

B

I was about to look that up.

A

Do we have any other questions, I'm going to look up an authority record for a uniform title.

D

Just just a quick report we've on several occasions, I've talked about the time my cat walked across my keyboard and entered a control number three orders of magnitude greater than the ones I was using. It turns out. There is an authority uh authorized value, called the control num sequence, when you can, which allows you to change the.

D

uh The next number assigned- and it's just that simple.

E

I have it's not a question, it's a clarification. So if I have a title, that's tran, it's in spanish, so I would copy the title: that's in the book, that's in spanish and then the 240.

E

I would create my translation of the title and put english or I would use a different like there's. No, they weren't nice and gave me the title.

A

um You you would, you would need to find okay, say: you've got a spanish translation of something that was never published before, say.

B

A

uh Say they found the manuscript in the archives? It's it's never been published. The spanish is the first language of publication. You probably are not going to have a uniform title for the english. The spanish is the one. That's put it out there.

A

So you're gonna have a note, saying translation of the manuscript in the uh you know uh by the the traveler in the uh you know in the madrid archives, and maybe you know the manuscript, you know it's going to have the, but but there is no say there was no title, you know it's just it's just uh yeah.

D

A

Lady flitty pots journal.

D

And I've I've got a number of pieces that are, you know, translated from records found in baron, so-and-so's uh seller, and uh you know it's a translation and you can tell it's a translation because it's badly done but there's uh you know nowhere to go to get back to the sources since the the castle burned out.

E

And then let's say I have a book, that's in a language, but I think people would want an english translation so that they can find it. Where would I put english? Is the common language.

A

Right um some libraries do their catalogers do do their own translations of the title and add that to a record we don't because if some this, this item is in the foreign language, there is no english in it is your user, who only speaks english really going to want this item.

D

Well, we use the english language for the uh descriptions and the the uh and all and just leave the the foreign language title where it is, it's got a flag on it that says it's written in ukrainian and yeah. You know that or not.

B

How about I have the um bibliographic formats up um uh 242 translation of title by cataloging agency.

A

Yes, if you do, if you do do that, that's where you put it smarter.

D

B

And then there's 246 varying form of title that wouldn't be a translation.

A

No, the the 246 is for titles born by the item known by the item. That sort of thing the one.

B

That's on the spine, rather than the title page.

D

Yes, I get a lot of magazines that evolve their title slowly over time without changing the numbering sequence. 246 helps a lot with those.

A

I'm putting in the chat the the language note the mark, bibliographic 546 note. This is what you use to specify the language of the resource like in french, in english, french or germans. It's got all three in there.

E

So we have a lot we're a translation, linguistic organization, so we have a lot of materials that are written in the indigenous language, and so sometimes they will so. You know spain has several hundred languages. They're, probably gonna want a uniform title in spanish for those titles. If a linguist is wanting to look up families would we put? Would that be a subject? Note?

E

Would that just be write? A note like a translated we've translated the title into spanish in the 242?

E

A

If you're going to, if you, if you as the catalog, are going to translate the title into the language used by your cataloging agency or another language, common language, you're going to use those 242's consider consider subject headings in different languages as well, because yeah yeah, that's where we we want to use different subject, thesauri for say um if your your cattle, your cataloging agency, say you're cataloging in english, but you have a lot of spanish users and indigenous language users you're going to want those vocabularies you're going to want your english language.

A

Subject: headings your spanish language, subject: headings your and many you know, agencies say uh if my agency were lucky enough to start working with the chichenyo olane to develop cecenyo headings. We would then put those in those subjects and koha can cope with that. Copa can do different language, thesauri and headings really well. So.

E

You would do different main headings in each language and then link them in the authority records with the 550 or have one authority record with each translation in it. So your your subject.

A

Headings are going to be 6, x, x fields and you use your indicators to indicate the thesaurus used.

A

So I'm going to put in the chat the mark, 21 format for the six xxx subject headings and then I'm going to put in a link to the 650s. That's the most typical subject: heading field used and your indicators there. The second indicator says the thesaurus and there's set ones for say second indicator zero. Is your library of congress subject heading it's gonna, be in english, but uh indicator.

A

Six is the repertoire for your french headings and then your second indicator, seven is for your source specified in subfield two and in subfield two, that's where you're gonna link to your other thesauri, so your spanish language headings, whatever the source you're using and you're, going to have separate authority records for those different language headings that are going to link to this in the subfield 9 of the 6 15, your coho catalog you're, getting fancy dancing here.

D

You want to get fancy the the problem comes that spanish isn't a language. It's a family of languages, yeah I've, I've run in headlong into the brick wall of the difference between portuguese and brazilian. Yes, so you need to take great care that you've got somebody on staff that can tell these apart.

A

Yes- and this is why we use authority records, we're going to pick our thesaurus we're going to pick our authority record.

D

Here here in central florida, you need both puerto rican and cuban spanish and people who speak castilian aren't understood by anyone.

A

We have a question: what does arlen stand for in the soviet mine? Oh arlen? Oh, I remember ireland so fondly I.

B

A

Yeah arlen used to be a system, the research library's information network and libraries would use arlen and or oclc. It was a completely different system. It was smaller, it was a different bibliographic utility, it was smaller than a clc, but it did not cluster records into a master record oclc.

A

When you log on you're, seeing one record in master record in arlen, you saw a record cluster and you could look at different libraries records and when oclc bought, arlen and subsumed and sucked ireland's database into theirs and became a yet more vast and large bibliographic utility.

A

Some of the arlen record clusters are preserved and there are ways to see them, but it is complex.

B

As I recall, it was also more suited to rare books. For that reason, exactly.

B

Did oclc also swallow wlm.

B

I haven't heard from them in a long time.

A

Yeah, let's see.

A

um Wln I'm looking up the western library network. Oh yeah, we're going way back. Yes, oclc.

B

A

Did absorb, um I believe sky river may still be out there. Yeah.

B

Yeah, so oh and you don't just have one oclc record and my unfortunate experience, I was trying to get the records for my cartoon book collection. I think one of them had about 17 different oclc records, but usually the one that comes first.

B

Is the one I would use.

A

If you do come across duplicate oclc records, you can report them to an oclc user, say like me, and we can use our online function to report the duplicates and to get oclc's quality control to merge those.

D

My access is through worldcat and I found that, generally speaking, they are different editions and just now I have to go back to pull a book book off the shelf and see which one I've got.

B

Yeah and not my experience with medical books.

D

B

Through connection.

D

Yeah you're you're you're in a somewhat different world when we ancient historians.

A

Oh, if you're a connection user, you can report duplicates.

F

B

Yeah but I'd have to do it every time I catalog something sometimes.

A

It's pretty fast and uh benefits us all. Just put.

D

I'm just gonna put it all in and then open up the z3950. Once I hit ten thousand items.

A

Well, we are at the top of the hour. um I wanna thank everybody for coming. If you have yet more questions, please feel free to send them to the discussion list or uh save them for next time or send them to me ahead of time. If you want to be sure that we discuss them during the broadcast, so I'm going to end the recording. Thank you all very much.