Koha-US SIG - Cataloging Special Interest Group, 6 Apr 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Cataloging Special Interest Group - 4/6/2023

Description

00:14:13 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.ala.org/core/continuing-education/interest-group-week
00:14:42 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://www.ala.org/core/continuing-education/interest-group-week
00:34:03 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Koha-US System Administration Group might be helpful--next meeting is April 11, https://koha-us.org/calendar/
00:38:31 Michelle, CLAMS Library Network: That's a lot of work!
00:39:30 Heather Hernandez (she/her): That's what we do, too--we use the "Gateway" for bib records, exporting directly from Connexion Client into Koha.
00:45:31 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Good_enough_biblio_record/
00:49:18 Fred King: The reason I don't go from Connexion to Koha is that I didn't know you could do that. What I do may be cumbersome, but I know how to do it!
00:51:23 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Then that makes it efficient for you, Fred! If you're interested, here's the section in the 22.05 manual for the OCLC Connexion Gateway: https://koha-community.org/manual/22.05/en/html/third_party_software.html#oclc-connexion-gateway
00:58:10 Heather Hernandez (she/her): Great point about the WorldCat.org interface--we have one of those, too. Ours is here: https://sanfranciscomaritime.on.worldcat.org/discovery
01:00:56 Miranda Nero (OSL): We're using BTCat instead of OCLC and the cost saving vastly outweighs the handful of records that are found only in OCLC.
01:01:20 Jason - SEKLS: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=26933
01:03:07 Jason - SEKLS: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22870
01:06:21 Heather Hernandez (she/her): https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Advanced_editor_macros
01:07:35 Jason - SEKLS: macro limit: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=26929

A

Foreign welcome to the first April 2023 cataloging special interest group meeting of koha us there's going to be another one at a later time, so hopefully other people can make it, and hopefully everyone here can make it too, that one's going to be on April 27th and, as ever, go to koha hyphenus.org and select the events Tab and the calendar link to get the link to join us, and this week I have uh one link to share with you all putting it in the chat.

A

The American Library Association core interest group week recordings are up and it's pretty much lots of really great cataloging information and Technical Services information and they are free. You can watch all these recordings for free at your leisure and there's a couple other people just joining in so I'm, going to put this link in the chat.

A

Again, it's to the American Library Association core interest group week recordings that are free lots of really interesting stuff about cataloging, Technical, Services, New research, interesting things, libraries are doing, I watched a lot of them and found them very interesting and useful, and this week Margaret would like to bring something to us that she has discovered with search results and, if I remember correctly. Margaret you're y'all are on zebra.

B

Yeah and I don't know whether it would make any difference if we were on elasticsearchs. Would that solve the whole problem? I, don't know here's the problem.

B

um We have patrons, who I guess they're in a hurry: I guess they don't look all the way down the list of results that come up whatever we've had problems with patrons putting holds on things. Besides the just the book um we had one who kept putting holds on the book club kit, because that's what appeared first in the search results, um and so so certain people and Branch people are saying you know.

B

Koha is terrible because it does this, so we need to get rid of it, because it's terrible because it does this I want to know why it does this. And um would you like me to share my screen? Yes, please never done it before I'll see what I can do.

A

That's all right: we can help you, we can walk you through it: okay, yeah. Let's do it um while you're, let's see you should be able to see a green share screen button. Yeah.

B

A

I did that and then you'll pick which aspect of your screen you'd like to share.

A

Take your time: okay, while you're, taking a look at that I'll say: um I am unfamiliar with zebra, because we've been on elastic for quite a while, and we really like it and elastic does make some of these things easier, because you would have access to the indexing weights. What field is indexed is what and so, if it's something like the 245 subfield H data, that's weighing these search results towards the top. You could even like unindex that entirely or lessen its weight.

C

I wonder if it might be helpful to create a new product type for there's.

B

Your screen Margaret.

A

You did it yeah.

B

But I'm, not okay, wait a minute. There we go. That's it actually.

D

I think I know what the problem is, but I'd like to see it. First, that's.

B

How it looks in the in the public.

A

Okay, what we're seeing is your cataloging screen on your staff interface, so I'm not sure if you're sharing the right, oh I'm,.

B

Probably not, can you see that.

A

We're still seeing the cataloging screen so maybe stop the share and then start the share again. Okay,.

B

E

I've lost it now. First thing that it shares is a screen and not the actual script. You want to share the screen option, not a window on this. Okay.

B

Now I can't get back away from it. I don't know how to go back.

A

Let's see I can stop your sharing there. We.

B

A

You and why don't you try sharing again and actually I'm glad we're going through this, because a lot of people have never shared a screen before and they don't know how to do it. Yeah.

B

I, obviously, don't know how to do it. It's very common, so I've got options to share screen one I'm on screen. One then there's screen two, um that's my cataloging, but I can't I couldn't go to a different tab. Was that the problem.

A

Let's trade, a green share, screen button again and then, as Lauren advised on the top left, might be your entire screen. I.

F

Would go ahead and try screen one uh because it look, it sounds like we were looking at screen. Two.

D

F

It'll you're on screen one right now, which is your zoom, and that probably makes it now we're seeing Google yeah.

B

Okay, um can I go to another tab? Is that.

A

um Try it I see.

D

Your question more American, something results.

B

Of search just that.

D

B

That's not the right thing. Wait a minute um yeah. This is not working.

D

You try the tab, you're cruises straight above or both yeah.

A

The results so there we go. Yes, we're seeing the book club kit real high up yeah.

D

B

I I clicked on the author to to only get this, because this is the the illustration of I.

A

See and you'd like that book that is currently down a search result number four yeah to be search. Result number one Fred. You said you had an idea.

D

Right searching by or up where, at um top right it says relevance, yeah,.

D

um Just below the hoopla bar.

B

Okay, yes, I see it.

D

See if changing one of those uh and I think well, you can definitely change that in the administration screen.

D

Try by selecting uh popularity most at least if that changes.

B

That changed it.

D

Okay, so I'm pretty sure you can make popularity the default.

B

Because a patron is not going to do that right.

A

You want that to be the default for everyone. Yes, yeah.

D

Okay, um give me a moment and see if I can get into our catalog s.

A

I think that's a great idea. Fred and many libraries would be interested in having it set that way as a default.

B

B

So how does that happen?

B

A

Do you do that Fred's investigating I, think he'll get.

D

Back to a moment, I'll put myself on mute and turn off the camera. So you don't. You can see my facial expressions.

A

D

Still hear you so if you're going to talk about me, just beware:.

C

I had an idea, while Fred's digging, um it may be beneficial to create an item type for the uh the the kits that does not permit uh patrons to put them on a hold.

B

Oh, but we want them to put them on hold. Oh.

C

B

Because their book club might want it in somebody else's book club might want it. So yeah.

A

They need to be holdable, but the people looking for a book club are going to be careful about finding the book club. One would hope.

F

E

My suggestion was: okay um is book club, a shelving location or a collection code, The Collection code I think because they could filter by that. Well,.

B

They could, but they won't.

F

um I I noticed that you like, if you scroll down to that book club I, noticed that you put one with like a new picture in there. That says the club kit.

F

um That was gonna, be my suggestion, but I wonder if you could make that even since it's got both covers I, wonder if you can make that even more obnoxious, I'm.

B

All about making things obnoxious, yeah I wish we could get rid of that other cover, but it comes from Amazon and you can't get rid of it. There's no way to keep it from being there, but.

F

If you made the one that had the book club kit message like loud and red and bright, maybe they would not.

B

Okay, I have to click on it. Yes, I will certainly suggest that.

G

This is Keisha. This is my first meeting, but for your image, couldn't you load one into Copa so like? If you don't like that image load, one in and it should take over, we.

B

It doesn't take over oh gosh, we did load in the book club kit image, but the other one is the one from um from Amazon. Okay I got.

D

It okay see, could you stop sharing your screen, then I'll share.

B

Mine yeah um Heather, you might have to unshare, oh there, it is stop share, got it hey.

A

You did it all right, Margaret.

D

Okay, so let's see if this is gonna work.

A

And welcome Keisha glad you've joined us.

D

Okay, I'm going to go back here well home, then KOA, Administration, yeah and under global system preferences go down to searching.

D

And where it says, the results display default, sort field order and you can.

D

A

D

A

Number of checkouts.

D

For public number of checkouts, maybe um sending descending but try yeah total number of checkouts.

D

um That might me obviously I hope more people check out the book than the club kit, so yeah.

B

D

B

Awesome. Thank you. Let.

A

Us know how it goes Margaret, because I think a lot of people will be interested in.

B

This yeah, thank you so much.

D

Glad to share something.

F

I'll also mention like this: this sort of stuff was fixed when we went to elastic I. Think for us, like um our default search, is always Harry Potter and in zebra. It would without fail, give us like the VHS and like first or in the top five results and after we switched to elastic the whatever relevancy settings are over, there are slightly more refined, I would say so we were getting book results more readily than um like VHS and not audio cassette records.

D

Yeah I should mention which we should add. Yet this the instance I just showed you is on zebra I've, been sort of practicing going over to elasticsearch, because I don't want to experiment on the production version and I managed to get through without any hideous error messages on the test site. Yesterday, uh I'm gonna make a backup and then see if I can even more recent backup go through it one more time and then go in the production versions.

A

D

Us know how it.

H

B

But elastic Hearts would solve that problem right, more or less.

F

It definitely gives you more control over it and, like you, can tell um more easily why it's doing what it's doing, uh which I think it's like a main reason to switch I would say.

D

F

B

D

B

I guess we're just not confident or something that we can do it I, don't know it's.

F

A big change: it was scary for us search searching it's like making a change to. Cataloging is number one, because that's kind of like disrupt the most and then searching is number two for us. So um we sat on it for a long time, um but once we did switch I think we're glad that we did because it definitely helped are the quality of our results.

D

Yeah, the authors catalog is running elasticsearch, just I started out with it. uh I can't remember, but the references preference choices are in there. I think I just kept it of um they added to catalog and after most recent article first.

C

Makes sense for Euro collections, yeah.

D

I just wanted to say uh warm welcome to this Aida is that hip pronouncing.

H

D

C

H

Fred, it's nice to connect a face to a name, yeah good. How.

E

Is it from you.

H

It's also my first meeting.

A

Welcome to you until all the newcomers we're glad you're here. Thank you.

D

And you're in Sarajevo right, yes,.

H

I am okay and I've just started learning how to use koha, because I would like our University to switch from an in-house system that they currently use, which is a very uh simplified catalog, um but I see that I will have a lot to learn, especially since it's been many years since I um dealt with Mark, whether Mark, 21 or unimark.

H

So I have um dug up my old textbooks and I'm going through them again.

H

I'm currently trying to um find a way to add our books. um Our developers are supposed to export the entries we have from the current system so that I can test it. I have two koha installations: one is Mark 21 flavor that one is installed on my old laptop and another one is unimark and that's installed on a server back at work. Our developers have set aside some space for me, so both of them are test instances and I can play around uh delete some fields from The Mark Frameworks.

H

If I need to I made sure to make a copy of the default framework, so whatever I delete, I can get back from the default if necessary, and today I try to add some entries from.

H

Z 3950 servers and I can get everything in, but when I try to save them, I get a 500 error, so I'm not sure, what's happening there, whether I made any mistakes. While setting up my installation- and this happens on both Mark 21 and unimart flavor installations.

D

Yeah I haven't done a lot of z3950 from KOA, partly because our Hospital firewall won't. Let me get any z3950 port that I have you tried, searching in we're doing the z3950 search in Mark edit and then saving that as a file and importing that might be easier.

H

That's also another thing that I will have to learn how to use Mark edit, but tomorrow I'm going to try to add some some records manually to see whether I have the same error or not.

D

Yeah I've done a couple of presentations on Arch. Edit uh I took some of the photos in my kitchen and it describe it as a Swiss. Army knife there's a lot more than you've.

D

It has the capability of doing a lot more than you really need, but who knows what you're going to need next and you're always finding a new blade, mm-hmm?

D

So thinking wow, you can do that foreign.

H

I, followed uh someone's post I think it was Renee from Italy um who showed us how to how to add a a file from Mark edit, save it to a server to the koha server and enter the link to that somewhere in the parameters.

H

So what that does? Is um it converts from Mark to unimark? Vice versa, so I'm wondering whether there are any other parameters that I might need to check, um where I could do the similar thing or whether I should focus on the Standalone marketed application.

G

G

User of oclc, so that is uh the that they're, not what um whatever anyway, that is that Port, so that you there's a lot of settings in there, not a lot, but you have to get them right like there's a password that they just recently updated and you'll get weird errors.

G

If any of those things aren't there, but the errors, don't tell you: what's not hooked up it just you know so you just because I literally for the longest time was working with oclc and it was fine and then suddenly I'm getting this weird error and it won't it won't directly. Import I had to go through cohort and I was like I can't figure.

G

This out, I talked to uh Koh and I mean to my um um I, our administrator for koha, and then I also talked to oclc at one point like what's going on, no one could figure out until later on they're, like oh, do you have this password I'm like no.

C

G

Don't know if that has to do with the test. Environment. I would hope. Not.

G

That said, making sure you have the right port number and all these things, because at one point in time we even had two port numbers, um the one that I had worked, but then it stopped working and I didn't know why um other people had the correct one.

G

So it's stuff like that where it's like? Okay, if you don't have it set up, and it's not like a lot of different settings but they're very specific settings like the export, the Gateway, the password, that's in the Gateway things like that, and then also making sure um in your. um If you have a lot of well I, don't know how your system would work, but with our system with any diacritics or foreign language materials for us, World, Language materials for us, if you don't use Unicode, it doesn't come in correctly.

H

G

So using having it come in as Mark doesn't work, so um you have to have it as Unicode set up to come in right.

A

You have to have the right flavor.

C

The good news is: there's a large number of z3950 servers out there that don't require passwords and and permissions and uh there's there's lists of them that make it pretty easy to go out and find somebody who's got what you need. Oh.

G

No, the password is actually koha because they up their um security so that you, you wouldn't get something. So it was coming from kohai. It wasn't oclc, that's why they didn't know what the heck I was talking about like. Why why it went wrong. It was a special thing that they're like oh, we added security. I was like great, but no one told us and no one gave us the password so but I was the only I'm, the um one of the old school catalogers.

G

It was me and then someone who retired, who we're the only two who directly on a regular basis, cataloged straight from oclc in and export in, whereas everybody else catalogs within and pulls in the record. So they never saw a problem. But me I was always an oclc. So as soon as it happened, I noticed it but had no clue why so, but.

D

G

It, but that said, I don't know. If that's your issue, I would assume they wouldn't have a password for test, but.

D

uh Let's see Keisha, are you downloading from connection.

I

D

Okay, what I do- and this is more cumbersome but I- think simpler. Well, it works, um but you've seen my uh actually. Maybe you haven't a picture of the ranch being used to pound nails. That's what I do like yeah I select records in connection um the export record and marked and had been options, download export files, I'm going to use Mark edit to make sure everything is right. Then.

D

Stage that or recompile and Mark edit Stage, IT and KOA and import and so you're referring to me about that's a lot of work or sounds like really.

E

It's a lot of work.

G

Once you once you have it set up once it's set up, all I do is, go oclc, have the record push F5 and it goes right into the system. So that's.

A

G

I'm, like that's what that's what I'm saying when the password before I realized, it was a password issue. It stopped working and I was like what happened. I mean I could still catalog in Co-op, fine, just pulling it from oclc, but it was the other way around. It was a firewall. I mean it's great to have more security. It's just! Basically, let me know give me the keys to the door get in no, but anyway, so I don't know if they do that on the I hope they don't do that in the test environment.

G

But just saying there's little things like that, where it doesn't tell you off gate that this is the issue where it's not like it. It makes you feel, like it's user error, and it's not really it's like. Okay, you just don't have everything completely set up according to what they want, and it doesn't tell you so I would check settings or ask your whoever's helping you to look at the settings. Oh.

H

Nobody's helping me I'm doing everything by myself.

H

So this is my first time I'm dealing with Linux and Ubuntu and all the terminal comments. So when you mention a test setting I'm not actually sure what that means, because I just installed um koha and I just started using it. Oh.

G

I'm sorry because I assumed, when you said you had it in a test environment I was thinking. Maybe you were going through a provider because we have a test environment as well. That is put on the server you know like all of that, so I assumed it was through a provider.

G

But if you're doing it yourself, then I assume there's no password, but it could be that um a port issue, because that was one of ours, because I had there were literally two ports being used in my department and one of them worked for a while and then the other one stopped and I unfortunately had the one that stopped.

G

Oh, no, it's fine I just had to switch it. It's just one of those things where you're like I, don't know why this stopped working. So you have to go through everything.

H

Right so you mentioned, uh it might be an issue with a port.

F

And I'll I'll add that, like when you're getting 500 errors and cohab ads usually means it's having trouble talking with the server, um so it could be something's just not quite configured right or there's something in that record. That's like throwing it off enough that it doesn't want to save it. It's like yuck I, don't want that.

F

um I need uh I! Need you to fix something in the record before I can save that another. A couple places to look are your about page in koha. If you go up to more and about sometimes that'll show you if there's a configuration, error um and then I could probably hear Apache logs might show you some information, but I'm gonna stop talking, because that's out of my depths other people here might have more more information on that. It's.

H

Also out of my depth, because it's something I'll have to look up and see how to check right so I, don't know how to get those logs. That's another thing on my um to learn list. Did somebody mentioned diacritics? That might be a case because one of the authors listed is from Balkans region. So there is central European characters in his last name. So I'll check that and obviously, since this is my first time setting everything up, it might have been a user error. Definitely what else I've checked the z3950 servers.

H

I currently only have a Library of Congress, a national library of France and the British library and I got the username and password from them. They recently sent it to me. So hopefully it shouldn't be that, like I said, the installations are both completely empty. There are no records in them, so I can mess about and see where I can correct or change, and tomorrow I'll try and see whether I get the same error. If I enter the book manually instead of using a z39 server and.

F

Another thing you mentioned like it's completely empty, so there may be something that's not set up like you may not have a framework set up, and so, when you're trying to pull the record in it's not there's nothing for it to go into um I.

H

Do actually um when I installed Mark 21, flavor I, let it import several Frameworks, so I have books and serials and a couple of other Frameworks when I did the unimark I didn't do that, so it only had the default framework fast acquisition and no fast, ad and acquisitional framework, so I had to make a copy of the default framework to create a books, booklet, workbooks and when I tried, adding a record in unimark.

H

It kept throwing up errors because it had all these fields that were not relevant um to book, for example, uh music, insipid and cartography materials. So I thought well, it's my own laptop. It's a quote-unquote testing environment, so I'm going to delete these fields and if it turns out that they're creating issues I can always recreate it from the default framework.

H

um So that's something that I'm going to test tomorrow. Hopefully it will solve the issue.

D

And this might help I can what I did when I was doing authors catalog I created a couple of Records um and in let's say for the 245 idle goes here: 010 LC CN goes here: 060.

D

you'll just describe what the field is and that uh you can use that to make sure that the fields are displaying correctly and the ones that you want are displaying the I'm. Not sure it'd. Be that helpful for you, but might give it a try. I.

A

Just put a link in the chat: I put a record up on The Coho Wiki, that's sort of a good enough, bibliographic record. That is a version of this.

A

So that and and uh that record is available to download and um in a Mark 8 format and there's also, you know a display version that can be copied and pasted. So that might be helpful.

H

uh I think I actually tried that um earlier today and I, don't think that Mark 8 version is available. Yeah sorry, the file you have requested does not exist, so it's it's not there to be downloaded. Unfortunately,.

H

Copy and paste, although I'm not sure how exactly do I just paste it into a text file or.

A

You can copy and paste it very easily into the advanced bibliographic editor or the basic bibliographic editor and then re and then delete and retype the subfield characters. They won't copy and paste correctly. Thank you for letting me know about the problem with the Mark 8 version. I will get that fixed and I'll see if it's on my computer I had some computer dying and Reviving issues, so it might take me a little bit of time to locate the file.

H

And I'm sorry it didn't catch that advanced for.

A

Or basic there's two bibliographic editors in koha. The default is usually set to the basic bibliographic editor and that will show you tabs with field boxes for putting in the data or you can then, if you've enabled it in your Administration, have an advanced, bibliographic editor, that's more a blank slate.

E

Okay, something we recently learned that your z3950.

E

um Oh I, don't know what so we've there's a library in France that uses unimark and we use Mark, 21 and I thought I was supposed to put in unimark because that's the library that we're pulling from and we got weird information- and it was just weird and so I changed it to Mark 21, and it worked perfectly so it's like you're, the whatever you select in that z3950 needs to match. What's in your system preference, so if your system preferences unimark your z3950 needs to use unimark.

E

If your system preference says use Mark 21, then all of your z3950s need to have Mark 21 right.

H

I think I can cross that and I had the same result of the very strange records.

H

So I went back and changed all of those servers to what was on my system. So I'm I, don't think that's it. uh It might be some I guess preference that I either missed during the original installation.

H

um I, don't know it's still a mystery and I'm still learning to use it and I'm I'm, slowly, going through the cataloging um manual instructions and I'm going to need a lot of time to go through everything and to basically relearn correctly, because the system that we're using now is like a Bare Bones plain text where everything is done manually. There's no any flavor remark um any bibliographic format, it's just plain text and I will also need to find how to catalog records which have the books which have several copies.

H

um Have you have you done? Have you dealt with that.

C

A

C

The you just the biblio is describes the book. It defines what the book is and then you have items for the physical object and if you've got six of them, you put in six items.

D

H

D

Is if they're the same Edition or, if they're, significantly identical.

C

Yeah sufficiently identical is a good phrase.

H

Right so I might have uh 10 copies of a book because students might need it um for exams. They need to study for exams.

C

H

C

You'd make ten ten items of that book. Okay,.

H

C

Is actually fairly simple once you get the biblio in, uh usually you can click on Save and Go to item save and edit items that lets you go ahead and put in the additional details and you can then duplicate those as needed.

H

Okay, thank you.

D

F

There, a West, easy.

D

F

E

Is there a way for you to show us the errors you're getting or how you're doing the process? Because it's possible it's something: it's a small thing and how you're doing it, and that would help us to identify.

H

I might need it next time because um the computer I'm using now where the zoom is installed, is a desktop. um Windows computer and the laptop I have is um Linux where kohai is installed. So I don't have zoom here, I, don't know whether there's a Linux version of Zoom so.

A

H

Is to add, there is okay, so I'll have to look that up, install it on that computer so that I can share my screen. um There's no way to record what I'm doing on the laptop. Currently so I guess I'll be there for the next session.

A

That would be great we'd really like to hear how it's going, what you're learning what questions you have and also I put a link in the chat to The Coho us system administration group that importing records is very much where our two groups overlap.

H

Oh, that would be great uh because I still have to um receive a reply for from our developers um about when they're gonna have my exported.

H

What's the word for it, my export? Basically, there are currently nearly ten thousand um copies and about 5. 000 of them are unique records, so I need to see how to prepare that to import it into koha.

J

I had a question for all of you: catalogers, because I'm an acquisition and so I'm trying to look um we're always trying to streamline, of course, in libraries. As far as our make our um our funding, you know stretch of those as far as we can- and um my question is a lot of times since I am not a professional catalogger I will go ahead and use the z3950 and get it usually from the Library of Congress.

J

The record I know that sometimes there are specific fields that catalog catalogers may put in for series like the 245, I. Think and anyhow, my question to all of you is um we subscribe and it costs quite a bit of money to um like Sky River.

J

um Is there a benefit to utilizing that service over this E39? And if so, what might it be?.

A

Thank you for that question Christy. This is a very common question and it it varies from location to location. uh For example, we are a single site, Library we're a Museum library, so we are very specialized. We do pay to subscribe to oclc and use it because of the the economy of scale.

A

um We are we're specialized, but we find so much available copy cataloging in oclc from other specialized libraries. That saves a lot of time and makes it very cost efficient and also the when I can find any record. However brief, it saves me all that time and energy from the original cataloging I can, just you know, bam export it via the the Gateway interface into into cover.

A

Also I find a lot of authority records, there's no Gateway interface from oclc connection into cohei, yet for Authority records, but still I can download so many Authority records have my batch imported into koha boom. Saves me a lot of time, so we find that it's worth the the money. uh What we have done we're Federal, so we have to justify expenditures for this and write justifications.

A

So what we did um is at a certain point. We did uh I I, just kept statistics like how many for for a certain period of months, how many records did I find that were copy versus original cataloging and to justify the cost. We also participate in oclc for interlibrary loan and we do lend so that's another place that we have a lot of. um Yes, it costs money, but it's so much more efficient for us.

G

Also for um like she was saying copy, cataloging, like also deriving. So if I'm like looking for subject headings, I'll, look up like I'll, look up, something that I know or like I, think it's going to exist somewhere else and I'm able just to just copy those subject. Headings really quick because of the fact that there's so many records that there's likely to be something that's similar in there.

G

um Another thing that I get from using oclc is just like I mean other people use it for like um World Discovery, like if you're a public library- and you want other people to know that you have these. You know access to this. You can also get interlibrary loan that way um and then also um outside.

G

We I work at a public library, so we use Dewey um LLC does put Dewey call numbers on there, but they're usually like the book, might be on um your pet dog, um but it's specifically about Dalmatians and it might have the call number for it will be like something weird it'll be like either the call number for dog- and this is about dog medicine- something like that, whereas usually somebody would have updated it or they would have put better call they'll put better subject headings in there for somebody who actually is going to use it more so for um a public-facing thing.

G

So that's yes, it's usually good for that, or um also, if you get something in a series, someone is usually put the series information on at least one of the books in there. So I'll go look at one of the books and snap snatch that and put it on the newest one if it hasn't been updated. Things like that, which would take me a while just to like code, it in I can usually just copy and paste.

B

And, conversely, we can't afford to belong to oclc or Sky River. We do everything one at a time through c39.50 and it takes forever.

C

D

B

C

Less time than it does to do original cataloging in the whole collection.

D

Yeah we have that's.

B

D

Clc uh I've actually discussed this with my boss is worth it and uh it. The time saved is worth the hassle.

D

um Yeah we're I'm, not sure how much it costs per book, but, on the other hand, things how I installed KOA my own and I can take care of all the problems. We're saving something like ten thousand dollars a year over um we're paying 30 Dynex.

D

I think there are enough new people here that so I can tell the story. When I arrived at uh edstar in 2005., we were on Horizon and you came with manuals and manuals, and uh so I asked so who's. The system administrator and everyone looked at me and said you are uh so yeah Anita you're, not alone a lot of people. A lot of us have had to learn this thing as we go along I've, probably built and destroyed more incidents incidents, yeah incidents, then most people I see Bruce you're nodding.

C

It's only nobody's dying, yeah.

D

When I work in a hospital, so yeah people do die from misinformation or lack.

B

D

It, but not because I didn't put in color correctly.

C

Yeah my Field's ancient medieval history they're all dead anyway,.

A

Well, we we uh we do have. We do have a few more minutes. In our hour, does uh we have uh Miranda in the chat, saying they're using BT cat instead of a CLC in the cost, saving vastly outweighs the handful of Records found only no CLC for them. Thank you for for that Miranda yeah. It's does anybody else. Have anything that they'd like to bring to the group.

F

I just toss that bug in there that's the cover image issue that we were seeing earlier on Market screen. So uh if you want to copy yourself on that, it is a bug. It's a sign.

I

um I have a question: I, don't know if you guys can answer for me. um I I uh like to use the organ. I can't even remember the thing it's called um in the advanced anister. There's the um geez my mind won't break.

A

It's okay. Take your time. The advanced okay you're talking about the advanced, bibliographic, editor macros, yes,.

I

um I uh created a macro for our co-worker to put in the line for the um Accelerated Reader and uh in subfield Z, where we put the test number uh she likes to put the pound, sign there and then write the test number. But the macro won't populate the pound, sign and I. Don't know if that's possible or if the pound sign is some kind of special code that it you know and that's why it won't populate.

I

C

Generally, a bad idea to put that sort of thing anyway,.

I

C

um Well, as you, you suggest, a lot of characters are are special characters with special functions in strange places. It might work fine here, but when you get it out into some other process, it might crash, and generally you can add, a pound sign in the display. If you really feel the need for it.

I

C

There's certainly no data contained in that character.

A

Yeah I'd be I'd, be tempted to to try to use something different, like you know, no period, if it's an if it means number. Okay, yeah yeah,.

G

And it could be that, um depending on what browser you're using those macros are just like at the time, at least, unless it's a complicated one and I, don't know how to make those yet they're. Just pretty much saying like this is text, but your browser. If you combine certain things, it would become a macro for the browser not for cohort.

G

So it could be that the like those because I had one where it was leaping to another tape and I was like what did I do and I realized I inadvertently by putting stringing carrots together was telling the browser to go to a new tab and I was like. Oh, this is not gonna work and.

A

Jason just put a related macro in the chat about the pound sign in rancors or you'll notice, that some people call the advanced, cataloging editor rank, or that was its nickname in development.

F

So basically, what this bug is saying is exactly what you guys are saying that that pound sign means something different in the coding level at the coding level. So that's why it gets stripped out um so I and it doesn't look like this- has any movement to sort of fix that so I would probably go along with the suggestion of using like an O DOT or something like that.

I

Okay, all right I'm glad.

A

I asked yes, and also it's very easy for the. If the new people aren't aware of this to get a get an account on bugzilla and then you can CC yourself on a bug, so every time there's a comment or change on the bug. You get an email about it. You can comment on it to say hey. We would really like this because of our workflow. This is why we need it which really helps developers and you can also add votes to it.

A

So that brings some attention and then also come to groups like this call attention to the macro, and maybe other people will say: hey yeah. We could use that and support it and that helps a bug or development or patch get attention.

D

Well, here, I am with my crescent wrench to pound nails that uh one thing I found really useful is a program programmable keypad that you can put in all your keystrokes and it'll. Do, for example, um I use this a lot until I realized that you can actually do this in Market edit uh was needed to copy something from the 0.99 a to the 952p so and they're, always in the same place in the record, so come down here.

D

Select this copy. This go up. Four, go to the end, paste guidance. I say you can.

B

D

The market faster.

D

If I still use it for a lot of things,.

A

I'm also putting a link in the chat to the uh Coho Community Wiki, where people can copy and contribute Advanced cataloging editor macros.

A

Well, we we have just a couple more minutes, anybody have anything else.

B

Is it still true that you can only have a certain number of macros the there's, a finite number that you can have.

A

I don't know, that's a very good question.

C

And is there an intelligible error message when you hit that point.

D

C

J

I don't know if this is along the same lines as the pound sign, but um when we get um records from our vendor, um it's the utf-8 character set and when we get foreign books um you know, there's all there's often diacritics and they're, coming up as question marks in our records, so I usually have to go in and fix them. Is that just a normal thing that you guys encounter or that's.

A

That's not normal. That means that your records are being imported with the incorrect Mark flavor.

G

Yeah, so there you, if there you have to have them coming in as you like using UT like if you have your setup for Mark, uh 21 or whatever, and then you need to check that you need. They have to be the same, because that's how we were getting the same thing to happen. We thought we had it for Unicode, but there was one area depending.

I

On where it is.

G

That it wasn't set up and.

C

G

Were coming in weird.

C

I I've also seen this where uh the uh code Type was different and those are annoying I, but I have found workarounds for them. You can force the uh my case with z3950 Services, where I could instruct it what uh code base to use. So it came in without all the question marks.

J

So, even though my I'm, looking at my import where I import um these records and under my settings, the character encoding, the default is utf-8, which is how they're coming in. Are you saying that there may be something else in admin that I need to look at? No.

C

I'm I'm saying what I found that some of the z3950 servers would not uh output in utf-8 until unless you told it to there's a there's, a setting and some of them that you can. You can fix for that.

A

Yeah go ahead. Yeah it has to you, have to know that they've been what format they've been exported in, but also when you're importing the file. That's where in the you know, you go to tools and Stage Your Mark records. That's where you have to make sure you have the correct flavor of Mark to bring it in also so those two settings have to match and if they don't match, then you get you don't get the diacritics correctly or the non I think the other character sets correctly you'll get those weird question marks.

G

And if you touch it in Mark in Mark edit, you can accidentally undo that, because I was doing that when we were fixing the records, because Mark edit also defaults, not for Unicode. So you have to go into Mark edit and change it so that it defaults to Unicode, because I was accidentally undoing it until I noticed it because I'm like what's wrong with the record. The record looked good when I brought it into Mark edit, but then, when it was coming in, it was coming in with question marks.

G

So it's consistency everywhere.

D

Thank you, and this is apropos not a whole lot, but z3950. uh You can just get a bunch of isbns and the file and have Mark edit do a z3950 search on those, and the problem is at the library, Congress it'll do one or two of them and then stop. So you have to do them one by one.

B

D

C

Some others too yeah.

D

What I would do in your case is the wrong way, of course, um just get a list if, as many isbns or LC control, numbers used to be known as the LC card number, which is field um 010 in uh mark But, 8 or 28 anyway, this is what I use um and then put it into marketed. Have it do the search download all your records.

F

Oh uh back on Market's question I threw that bug in the chat as well and there's a workaround list is there. It has to do with like how many things are displayed in your rest settings. So there's a system, preference you can up and that'll allow you to have more macros until I get fixed excellent yeah.

A

Thank you Jason, but.

A

Well, we are just at the top of the hour, so I want to thank everybody for coming and remind you that we're going to have another meeting in April on April 27th later in the day hope you can join us. This is an experiment for some additional quarterly cataloging special interest group meetings in our our last one was very well attended. So I think these will probably continue so hope to see you then thank you, everybody for joining us and if Jason could end the recording. That would be great.