►
From YouTube: Kubernetes SIG Usability 20210601
Description
Monthly SIG Usability meeting
- Proposal to create common upstream personas
- Update on Jobs to Be Done
A
Hi
everybody
and
welcome
to
our
regularly
scheduled
monthly
sig
usability
upstream
meeting,
and
today
we
have
a
pretty
cool
agenda.
Daniel
is
has
a
proposal
for
starting
to
think
about
upstream
personas
and
kind
of
aligning
around
how
we
think
about
the
different
users
of
kubernetes
and
then
gabby
has
some
project
updates
around
our
jobs
to
be
done,
study
and
contribution
guidelines
so
daniel?
Do
you
want
to
kind
of
kick
off
the
presonus
convo.
B
Sure
sure,
thanks
yeah,
you
know
I
brought
it
up
in
slack
as
well,
and
it
kind
of
kicked
off
where
we're
starting
to
develop
personas
for
the
work
we're
doing
at
d2iq
around
users
of
cncf
and
things
like
that,
and
it
just
strikes
me
as
you
know,
this
being
a
small
industry
and
just
knowing
the
design
teams
at
vmware,
knowing
the
design
teams
at
ibm
and
stuff.
Like
this
there's,
you
know
a
lot
of
research
done
already.
B
It's
not
necessarily.
This
is
even
like
top
secret
competitive
stuff.
I
think
all
the
users
were
encountering
all
the
pain
points
are
pretty
much
the
same
and
then
in
the
spirit
of
the
cncf
and
the
sharing
it.
It
just
seemed
like
this
could
be
a
great
opportunity
to
have
kind
of
a
open,
personas
project
that
you
know
is
posted
on.
Github
is
kind
of
curated
by
the
committee
and
the
the
folks
that
are
you
know,
companies
that
are
participating.
B
They
contribute
user
research
there,
so
we
can
get
aligned
as
a
community
about
you
know
who
are
the
people
involved?
What
are
the
main
responsibilities?
Pain
points?
I'm
not
gonna
go
through
the
user
persona
criteria,
you
guys
all.
I
think
everyone
in
this
audience
knows
that,
but
that's
the
proposal
there.
B
I
think,
there's
some
redundancy
and
learning
to
do
and
I
think
it's
a
good
practice
to
an
open
culture,
because
I
think
you
know
there
are
the
big
players
and
they
have
huge
design
teams
and
even
dedicated
research
teams
right,
but
there's
also
smaller
folks,
where
those
teams
are
smaller
and
there,
but
I
think
it
benefits
everybody
to
kind
of
share.
So
the
second
part,
too,
is
obviously
in
this
landscape.
A
Yeah,
I
think,
that's
super
cool.
I
know
that
when
you
originally
brought
up
this
suggestion,
I
remembered
from
back
in
the
day
the
kubernetes
website
had
personas,
but
they
were
sort
of
focused
on
users
of
the
website
in
like
a
very
interesting
way,
and
so
since
then,
I've
been
looking
at
what
some
of
the
other
sigs
have
and
so,
for
example,
the
cluster
api
team
has
personas,
the
security
team
had
personas
but
then
deleted
the
page.
A
B
That's
great,
really,
good
observation,
I
think,
and
actually
you
know
it's
like
okay.
So
what
right?
I
think
that's
a
big
question.
So
what
why
bother?
But
I
think
you
you
bring
up
a
great
topic,
which
is
there's
projects
like
cappy
and
also
security
that
we're
referencing
personas,
and
we
actually
even
went
to
those
personas
too
to
look
at
what
what's
written
then
we
saw
that
they're
unmaintained
or
then
the
links
break.
So
imagine
if
these
different
csm
projects,
if
they're
referencing,
who
we're
targeting
now
they
can
reference
like
pers.
B
A
B
B
Then
that
persona
could
even
have
a
list
of
like
projects
that
are
referencing
it
right.
So
that's
the
ask
is,
if
you
use
this,
for
your
project
reference
it.
So
it's
very
clear:
it's
like!
Oh
you
have
this
project.
Oh
cappy's,
using
this
security
is
using
this.
So
that's
where
things
get
very
interesting.
A
Totally
totally
and
it
can
kind
of
give
you-
I
know
that
before
we
had
sig
usability,
I
would
end
up
at
some
of
the
upstream
meetings,
just
kind
of
talking
about
like
when
cluster
api
was
kicking
off
and
stuff
and
when
I
mentioned
kind
of
the
personas
that
we
think
about
everyone
was
very
hungry.
For
that
like
it
was
like
very
helpful
for
them,
as
they
sort
of
organized
their
thinking
about
just
even
as
an
open
source
team.
What
user?
What
story?
Should
we
go
after
first
right?
A
And
if
you
understand
who
your
core
persona
is
and
what
problems
they're
trying
to
solve,
then
it
becomes
easier
to
kind
of
be
like
okay,
let's,
let's
go
after
this
piece
first
and
then
you
know
think
about
this,
but
like
it's
not
you
know,
issue
number
one.
So
I
think
I
do
think
it
would
benefit
a
lot
of
the
teams
and
they'd
be
super
interested
in
it.
So
you
know
there's
a
couple
different
ways:
we
could
kick
this
off.
A
C
D
I
think
so,
I
think
anything
because
with
personas
like
with
the
tasks
and
kind
of
like
the
goals
and
like
the
the
work
they're
like
common
workflows,
I
feel
like
or
even
like,
their
mental
models
like
I
feel
like
this
would
be
a
kind
of
like
a
direct
direct
feed
into
that.
So
but
yeah,
I
think
it's
just
like
the
curation
of
it
and
just
kind
of
like
the
like
rounding
out
of
it.
I
feel
like
yeah.
They,
it
would
fit
pretty
nicely
sweet.
B
B
This
seems
like
a
great.
A
great
start
is
to
see
you
know,
get
alignment
and
saying
like
who's
involved,
and
then
you
know
in
other
key
steps
is
what
what's
the
right
level
of
gradient
of
information
there
right.
So
I
think
it
doesn't
need
to
get
too
too.
Geeky
can
get
a
little
bit
more
high
level
just
to
gain
alignment
about
who
and
top
things-
and
I
think
that's
where
it
could
be
interesting.
Is
you
know
there
could
be
like
a
subcommittee
to
kind
of
look
at
like
okay,
here's
the
research.
B
We
have
here's.
What
some
of
the
you
know
contributing
companies
are
also
saying,
and
we
can
just
kind
of
agree
on
like
top
responsibilities,
top
pain,
points
and
top
stuff
like
that
it
doesn't
negate
the
deeper
stuff.
But
what's
nice
is
that
that
could
gain
a
lot
what's?
Nice
is
even
focusing
on,
for
example,
top
pain
points
right.
So
maybe
it's
like
the
top
three
or
five.
Is
it's
not
everything?
B
It's
not
conclusive,
but
it's
just
like
you
know,
based
on
you
know
our
expertise
and
current
research
or
additional
research
is
like
this
is
what
we're
seeing
and
you
know,
contributing
cncf
members
and
designers
and
engineers
and
project
members
can
use
that
as
a
guidance
in
that
way,
and
we
can
make
really
cool
like.
I
always
love
we're
actually
doing
it
at
day,
two,
which
I'm
very
excited
for,
like
you
guys
ever
see
the
persona
cards
from
salesforce.
A
B
No,
they
have
a
whole
really
good
stuff
on
their
learning
hub,
like
their
trailhead
thing
to
like
learn
about
personas
and
what
they
use,
but
they
also
have
awesome
like
cards
too.
Let's
see
persona,
here's
one,
so
they
have
different
ones.
Sales
service,
different
domains,
but
they
have
these
cards
that,
like
available
in
a
pdf
form,
but
also
at
their
conferences,
they're
like
printed
out
and
you
can
get
them
like
a
nice
card
stock.
B
But
it's
kind
of
like
a
little
summary
about
who
it
is.
You
know
some
key
information
about
them,
how
they're
using
it
some
icons.
So
that's
where
it
could
get
kind
of
pretty
too
in
the
the
presentation
part
of
it
as
well
in
terms
of
socialization
stuff,
like
that,
you
know,
maybe
have
kubecon.
You
know
it
could
be
like
a
big
poster
as
well
right.
So
people.
B
A
E
A
Yeah,
I
think
that
something
like
this,
like
obviously
like.
I
think
we
could
so
what
I
would
suggest
like
just
to
kind
of
concretely
move.
This
forward
is:
let's
kick
off
a
dock
with
a
project
plan
and
kind
of
what
we
want
to
achieve,
and
then
some
of
this
is
like
the
outputs
and
then
have
some
inputs
in
there,
and
I'm
super
happy
to
help
with
this
and
then.
A
And
one
other
thing
is
when
we
have
the
project
plan
together
and
kind
of
with
the
inputs.
What
I
might
do
is
do
a
call
out
to
like
the
k,
dev
mailing
list,
just
mentioning
that
this
is
a
new
initiative
and
getting
a
lot
of
eyeballs
on
it,
because
a
I
think,
a
lot
of
sub
projects
have
kind
of
at
some
point
sketched
out
their
own.
A
So
we
could
just
be
like
send
us
what
you
got
right
and
then
b
and
there's
a
lot
of
ux
teams
and
researchers
who
haven't
learned
haven't
figured
out
how
to
get
involved
in
the
upstream
community,
and
so
this
a
lot
of
times
I'll
talk
to
a
developer
who's.
Like
I'm,
going
to
send
you
my
researcher
right,
like
I'd
love
for
them
to
participate,
so
it
could
become
like
a
really
easy
way
for
people
to
be
like
hey.
A
B
A
B
A
Just
would
help
everybody.
I
think
people
would
be
super
interested.
You
know
fruits
for
us,
like
we
have
like
the
vi
admin
and
like
a
bunch
of
sort
of
very
unique
personas
that
we've
done
a
ton
of
research
on
and
then
when
it
comes
to
like
the
cloud
native
personas.
You
know
it's
obviously
an
area
of
active
investigation,
but
I
I
don't
think
we
would
be
that
concerned,
but
also
like,
obviously,
I'm
not
the
decision
maker.
So
I
we
can
go,
ask
pamela.
A
C
A
A
D
Yeah
just
but
every
monthly
meeting
I
just
update
kind
of
like
how
the
job
study
is
going.
So
we
are,
I
think,
we've
done
like
three
or
four
interviews
since
last
time,
but
then
also
one
of
the
things
that
we've
been
doing
at
the
same
time
is
the
we're
going
back
through
the
interviews
and
kind
of
like
highlighting
behaviors
and
that's
ultimately
kind
of
like
what
we'll
use
to
like
pull
out
and
build
like
our
mental
model,
kind
of
like
how
carl
mentioned
in
our
inner
group
contact.
D
So
as
far
as
contribution
opportunities,
which
we
know
we've
had
some
people
ask
about
in
the
past,
I
think
I'm
writing
up
a
contribution
doc
that
I
was
planning
on
posting
on
our
github
project,
which
is
part
of
our
repo,
and
so
I
have
it
in
draft
form,
so
I'll,
probably
plan
on
showing
it
next
week
or
just
publishing
it.
But
I
think
two
contribution
opportunities
that
I
wanted
to
highlight.
At
least
like
here
in
this
meeting
was,
I
know,
we've
asked
in
the
past.
D
D
A
So
I
think
that
continuing
to
sort
of
figure
out
how
to
kind
of
balance
those
key
concerns
of
just
you
know.
People
are
spending
a
lot
of
time
with
us
and
giving
us
a
lot
of
information,
and
we
don't
want
to
open
them
up.
You
know
to
you
know,
regret
that,
but
then
also
like
how
do
we
share
the
data
and
kind
of
make
it
so
that
people
can
take
advantage
of
it
where
it's
appropriate?
A
A
Cool
yeah
sounds
great
and
then
I
guess
just
kind
of
from
a
bookkeeping
perspective.
Obviously,
now
that
kukan
your
eu
is
over
kubecon
north
america,
planning
is
kicked
off
and
so
we'll
have
to
submit
sort
of
our
proposal
for
what
we
want
to
talk
about
at
the
next
kubecon,
I'm
guessing
in
a
month
or
two.
So
if
people
have
ideas,
I'd
love
to
hear
them,
I
did.
A
So
we
might
want
to
kind
of
think
about
like
if
there's
something
like
that
around
usability
that
we'd,
like
kind
of
to
kind
of
elevate
and
like
how
we
might
present
it
in
a
way
that
people
kind
of
connect
with
it
more
because
I
think
right
now,
like
the
data,
we're
giving,
is
really
cool,
but
I
think
the
way
that
we
pitch
it.
You
know
we
could
make
it
more.
A
C
A
C
Well,
I
was
just
thinking
about,
I
didn't
realize
it
was
the
cnc.
I
was
looking
recently
at
the
cncf
survey,
2020
report.
So
I'm
not
quite
sure.
Oh,
I
see
yeah
yeah,
but
I
was
I
was
just
kind
of
curious
and
then
I
know.
While
I
was
googling
that
I
noticed
that
2021
survey
was
part,
one
was
released.
So
I
just
thought-
oh,
that's
probably
from
sig
usability,
but
I
guess
yeah.
A
C
A
Yeah
yeah
there's
a
bunch
of
different
different
research
going
on,
and
so
I
think
kind
of
identifying
areas
where
we
can
partner
with
people
and
kind
of
learn
what
they're
doing
is
really
cool.
Some
of
this
is
kind,
is
more
marketing
focused
and
so
kind
of
what
we
the
space
that
we
were
trying
to
carve
out
a
little
bit
with
the
jobs
to
be
done.
Survey.
Is
this
idea
that
in
the
upstream
community,
we
are
often
thinking
about
ourselves
as
the
makers
of
kubernetes?
A
What
do
we
need
out
of
it,
and
so
are
we
making
sure
that
we
understand
what
the
users
of
kubernetes
need?
So,
where
you'll
kind
of
see
the
two
kind
of
efforts
diverge?
Is
you
know
something
that
one
of
the
key
takeaways
gabby
was
getting
when
she
was
interviewing?
People
who
are
trying
to
use
kubernetes
is
people
who
don't
have
a
requirement
to
use
it
in
their
job,
like
their
boss
said,
go
use
kubernetes
fail
out
of
onboarding
completely
because
it's
too
hard,
and
so
like.
B
A
A
Cool
okay!
Well,
thanks,
everybody
super
excited
to
kick
off
the
persona
work
daniel.
Let
me
know
how
I
can
help
you
and
we
can
all
kind
of
kick
around
a
project
plan
and
then
figure
out
kind
of
any
asks.
We
have
that
we
want
to
make
to
a
broader
community,
but
I
think
that
that
would
be
very
valuable
if
we,
if
we
start
driving
that.
B
Oh
thanks
so
much
yeah,
I'm
really
excited
so
I
think
it'll
be
really
great
and
I
think
help
people
know,
and
I
think
also
increase.
I
think
awareness
of
design
and
the
value
of
you
know
just
what
we're
doing
in
this
community
is
not
just
making
it
look
pretty
right,
like
we're
actually
addressing
usage
and
stuff
like
that,
see
some
smiles.
So
I'm
sure
we
we
run
into
those
those
similar
issues
still,
but
in
terms
of
next
step.
A
What
I
would
do
is
maybe
kick
off
a
project
plan
draft
and
then
just
share
the
google
like
we
normally
just
do
everything
in
google
drive.
So
I
could
show
you
some
examples
of
project
plans.
I
did
for
multi-tenancy
back
in
the
day,
but
basically
we
just
kind
of
tried
to
carve
out
like
here's,
what
we're
proposing
to
go
after
and
here's
sort
of
our
road
map
of
going
after
it
so
like
and
for
multi-tenancy.
That's
just
important,
because
everyone
who
hears
the
word
multi-tenancy
thinks
something
different
right.
A
So
it
was
like
this
I
feel
like
people
will
immediately
get
what
we're
trying
to
do
with
that
one.
We
had
to
kind
of
be
more,
like
you
know,
a
b
c
d,
but
yeah.
I
think
if
we
just
kick
off
a
little
project
plan
share
the
google
doc
between
ourselves
iterate
on
it
open
it
up
to
the
whole
sig,
for
you
know,
participation
and
then
kind
of.
If
we
have
core
asks,
we
can
go
to
the
broader
group
and
be
like
we're
doing
this.
A
We
would
love
to
know
if
you
can
connect
us
with
additional
people
or
resources
who
want
to
participate.
Like
you
know,
let's
go
for
it.
I
do
think
that
a
person
an
upstream
persona
effort
would
be
something
a
lot
of
people
would
connect
with
so
kind
of
thinking
about
how
to
leverage
that
excitement.
B
A
A
B
A
A
Yeah
yeah,
if
you
want
to-
or
you
know,
drop
a
link
in
the
chat
channel
or
whatever
but
yeah,
I
I
think
probably
logistically.
What's
easiest
is,
if
you
want
to
kick
off
a
draft
share
it
with
a
smaller
group,
we
can
work
on
a
little
bit
and
then
open
it
and
then
we'll
share
with
the
whole
sig
for
people
to
kind
of
you
know
participate
in.
I
think
that's
probably
the
best
progression
yeah.