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B
Excellent,
thank
you
very
much
harriet
good
morning.
Everybody
welcome
to
today's
climate
emergency
advisory
committee
you're
most
very
welcome
on
the
slightly
overcast
thursday
in
october.
So
just
a
reminder
this.
This
meeting
is
going
to
be
streamed
out
on
the
council's
youtube
channel
and,
as
I
always
say,
with
incredible
repetitiveness
7.2
billion
potential
viewers
so
all
behave
yourselves.
B
Right
so
good
morning
mute
the
microphone,
so
we
can
avoid
feedback
and
if
you
could
use
the
hand
up
function
in
the
participants
list
to
indicate
you
want
to
speak,
that
would
be
great
harriet
just
be
advised.
I've
just
had
a
quick
flash
up
saying
my
internet
connection
is
unstable,
so
I'm
just
gonna
ask:
can
everyone
hear
me?
Okay,.
B
Okay,
I
hope
that
won't
continue
fingers
crossed.
So
if
I
don't
see
on
the
hand
raising
for
some
participants
to
just
make
it
known
in
in
in
a
waving
manner,
I
think
that
usually
works
right.
So
let's
do
some
introductions
so,
as
I
normally
do
on
this
committee,
we're
going
to
go
through
them
alphabetically.
So
if
I
start
also
anderson.
B
Council
for
scythe,
who
subbie
for
council
about
them,
joined
us
yet
and
if
you'd
be
so
kind
of,
introduce
yourself.
G
Good
morning,
council
round
four
south
finally
and
work
the
ward,
I'm
actually
now
being
swapped
with
councillor
david,
blackburn,
okay.
So
I'm
actually
now
part
of
this
committee.
B
How
wonderful
welcome
aboard
pleasure
to
have
you,
council,
garth,
waite.
B
D
H
B
B
B
Okay,
like
elected
members,
are
there
any
declarations
of
disclosable
pecuniary
interests
if
now
indicate
no
shaky
net?
Wonderful,
thank
you
so
much
and
apologies
for
absence.
Well,
it's
council
council
of
authorities
now
coming
onto
the
panel
instead
of
council
platforms.
We
we've
covered
that
okay.
So
if
we
turn
colleagues
to
the
minutes
item
six
of
our
last
meeting,
could
you
take
a
moment
to
look
at
those?
D
Yes,
yeah.
Everyone
want
to
challenge
the
minutes,
but
just
express
some
reservations
about
items
19
and
21
biodiversity
and
food.
I'm
little
concerned
that
we
seem
to
be
passing
that
biodiversity
behind
us
and
moving
on
to
food.
It's
it
worries
me
and
we've
got
a
big
scheming
curse.
As
you
know,
at
the
moment,
there's
a
full-on
conflict
between
biodiversity
requirements
and
food
growing
requirements.
D
We
have
to
resolve
it
in
politics,
politics
and
a
little
bit
of
religion
as
well,
but
I
recognize
situation
having
spent
my
whole
life
in
science
and
so
forth,
we're
making
a
transition
from
the
scientific
objective
sphere
to
the
opinion
and
passionate
belief
sphere
just
want
us
all
to
be
alerted
to
that,
because
it
isn't
necessarily
the
case
that
everything
people
tell
you
is
true
on
either
front
and
you
need
to
to
recognize
it
as
an
area
of
of
active
growth,
development
leading
conflict
resolution.
At
times.
B
Okay,
it's
a
good
point
well
made!
Well,
not
that
into
the
minutes.
Are
you
prepared
to
move
those
as
a
true
record?
Then
silence
is
acquiescence
or
something
like
that.
Wonderful,
okay,
thanks
very
much
so
now
move
on
to
item
seven,
so
this
is
open
forum.
So,
as
colleagues
already
know,
yeah
just.
A
To
interrupt
that,
a
few
different
technical
difficulties
today
with
playing
the
video
and
can
I
suggest
that
we
come
back
to
this
item
at
the
end
of
the
agenda.
A
B
It
has
the
hallmarks
of
one
of
those
mornings.
Doesn't
it
council
gathway
by
the
way,
is
messages
onto
the
chat
saying
she
can
hear,
but
she's
got
technical
issues
with
pictures
but
she's
here
and
she
can
participate
so,
okay,
so
open
forum
to
the
end?
That's
fine
harriet.
B
H
Okay,
so
this
week
we
have
had
restarted
the
meeting,
so
we've
had
the
biodiversity
and
food
working
group.
And
so
this
time
we
looked
at
the
food
report
that
was
taken
to
the
last
seat
committee
and
started
looking
at
the
actions,
and
the
group
have
asked
for
further
presentations
and
further
kind
of
expertise
to
be
brought
on
vertical
farming
and
also
in
terms
of
carbon
storage
within
soil.
H
So
we're
just
investigating
how
we
provide
that,
and
there
was
also
a
real
emphasis
on
how
we
actually
train
up
and
engage
the
public
in
terms
of
their
own
kind
of
planting
and
local
food
production
and
how
we
better
promote
the
availability
of
sites
so
where
there
are
sites
available
for
members
of
the
public
and
and
also
we're
starting
to
look
at
the
links
with
wider
stakeholders.
So
things
such
as
obviously
existing
farmers
of
any
size
or
scale
in
the
city
and
also
the
national
farmers
union.
H
H
About
carbon
capture-
and
I
suppose
one
of
the
kind
of
key
or
most
interesting
facts
was
not
only
the
carbon
capture
of
woodlands
but
also
outside
of
woodland,
so
the
trees
that
we
find
on
our
streets
or
in
our
gardens-
and
you
know
that
within
leeds
and
with
the
more
within
a
more
urban
area
that
actually
the
woodlands
and
the
outside
of
woodland
trees
have
equal
importance
in
terms
of
carbon
capture,
emphasizing
the
importance
of
protecting
trees.
H
So
that's
something
the
group's
going
to
explore
in
more
detail
in
terms
of
the
scope
of
tree
protection
orders
how
they
can
be
used
to
best
affect,
and
also
the
group
going
forward,
will
act
as
a
sort
of
consulting
on
the
white
race
forest
strategy.
That's
due
to
go
to
exec
board
in
september
and
and
the
overall
work
of
cat
is.
There
was
an
emphasis
on
the
limitations
of
offsetting
and
about
the
real
need
to
reduce
carbon
down
and
and
then
the
trees
come
in
to
kind
of
mop
up
that
final
part.
H
But
the
carbon
reduction
has
to
be
at
the
forefront
of
what
we
do,
and
so
that
was
the
biodiversity
in
food
in
terms
of
transport
that
took
place
yesterday,
and
we
had
kind
of
in-depth
discussions
around
the
active
travel
neighborhoods
that
are
proposed
in
the
city
and
also
around
school
streets
and
heard
some
of
the
positive
feedback.
That's
been
received.
H
A
look
at
the
final
working
group
is
not
meeting
until
next
week
and
they're
starting
to
look
at
domestic
energy
at
that
first
meeting
and
although
the
planning
white
paper
was
circulated
to
the
the
committee
for
the
comment,
so
I
think
that's
everything.
Thank
you.
B
Great
thanks
polly
any
questions.
Colleagues
on
what
polly's
had
to
say,
I
mean
this.
Obviously
we
started
the
working
groups
up
and
there's
there's
a
lot
of
work
been
going
on
over
through
the
summer
and
into
the
autumn,
and
it
was
good.
It
was
good
to
hear,
particularly
the
vertical
farms.
I
thought
was
very
interesting
for
an
urban
area
like
these,
and
I
also
put
it
bluntly:
if
everyone
who
had
a
garden
hadn't
got
any
trees
in
it
landed
a
tree
in
their
front
garden
and
tree
in
their
back
garden.
B
We
could
do
an
awful
lot
and
that
was
quite
heartening
to
hear
so.
No
comments,
good
grief.
This
is
unusual.
Okay.
So
now,
let's
move
on
to
item
nine,
which
is
voltage
optimization
and
it-
and
it
pains
me
to
say
this,
but
until
until
this
was
brought
to
me,
I
never
heard
of
this.
This
is
an
entirely
new
area
of
of
technology
if
you
like
the
application
of
technology.
So
we're
really
pleased.
We've
got
this
item
to
get
20
minutes
on
this
item,
so
our
speaker
is
keith
jackson
and
who's.
C
Okay,
thank
you.
Well,
first
of
all,
thank
you
for
listening
to
me
this
morning,
I'll,
try
and
respect
your
time
and
the
good
work
you're
doing,
but
I've
I've
got
three
objectives
this
morning.
If
I
can
describe
it,
one
is
to
say
that
we
have
a
problem.
C
One
is
to
say
that
we
have
a
solution
and
then
one
is
to
say:
can
I
solicit
your
support
to
help
me
make
sure
that
the
benefits
which
come
from
all
of
this
are
more
widespread
than
they
might
otherwise
be.
So
I'm
not
asking
you
to
do
much,
but
to
consider
whether,
at
the
end,
you
as
a
group
could
help
me
in
my
single-handed
campaign
so
that
that
sounds
a
bit.
That's
that's
the
objective
anyhow!
C
But
the
background
was
that
I
started
as
a
power
engineer
through
apprenticeship
in
the
electricity
companies,
the
old
area
boards
and
in
my
early
engineering
career,
because
I'm
a
fellow
of
the
institution
of
electrical
engineers.
I
was
designing
networks
and
dealing
with
voltage
complaints
which
in
those
days
many
many
years
ago,
was
invariably
low
voltage
and
I
used
to
have
to
say
to
customers.
Yes,
we
know
we've
got
a
low
voltage
problem,
but
we'll
get
some
more
substations
or
copper
in
the
ground
and
it'll
all
come
right
next
year.
So
that
was
my
history.
C
I
then
progressed
through
until
I
eventually
became
a
main
up
through
manager
and
eventually
main
board
director
in
various
electricity
companies
across
the
country
and
then
was
there
at
the
time
when
we
moved
from
nationalization
to
privatization
and
stayed
with
the
company.
As
it
happens,
it
was
east
midlands
electricity
for
about
three
years
thereafter
and
then
retired.
C
So
my
background,
but
in
that
time
I've
had
a
great
cause
in
championing
the
customer
getting
value
for
money,
invented
all
sorts
of
schemes
to
work
to
that
end.
So
in
my
retirement
I've
done
many
things.
I
was
chief
executive
of
a
business
link
in
nottinghamshire,
but
in
recent
times
I'm
just
a
champion
of
the
community
and
have
been
very
involved
in
doing
the
neighborhood
plan
for
boston,
spa,
which
is
now
made
in
that
process.
C
I
was
able
to
give
a
lot
of
input
in
the
steering
group
and
in
particular
we
were
looking
at
the
environment
and
climate
change,
and
things
like
that
and
I
had
personal
experience
in
a
house
where,
when
I
fitted
photovoltaics
on
the
roof,
I
was
then
experiencing
high
voltage
on
my
local
on
the
supply
into
my
house,
and
I
checked
with
northern
paragrad,
which
is
the
successor
to
the
old,
yeb
and
northeastern
electricity
board,
and
they
put
in
a
chart
a
device
for
a
couple
of
weeks
to
establish
that
indeed
I
was
getting
high
voltage
at
times
and
that
they
would
have
to
do
something
about
it
because
it
was
exceeding
the
upper
statutory
limit.
C
But
having
done
that,
I
realized
that
myself
and
the
rest
of
the
neighbors
on
that
substation
were
getting
the
benefit
of
reduced
voltage
and
if
you
go
back
to
simple
physics,
volts
times,
amps
equals
watts.
So
if
you
reduce
the
volts,
you'd
reduce
the
watts
and
it's
the
watts
that
we
buy.
We
pay
about
15
pence
per
thousand
of
them,
and
so,
if
you
can
reduce
the
volts
and
the
equipment
still
works,
you've
got
an
energy
saving,
a
cost
saving.
C
So
that
was
the
advantage
and
I
thought
well
if,
if
I'm
getting
the
benefit
and
my
local
substation
people
have
got
the
benefit,
I
wonder
how
many
more
there
are
in
boston,
spa
that
might
get
the
benefit.
If
we
were
to
look
now,
there
are
17
substations
in
boston
spa,
so
I
did
some
random
checks
and
sure
enough.
Many
people
getting
high
voltage.
So
that's
the
start
of
the
story
and
if
I,
if
I
could
ask
harriet
to
put
the
first
slide
up,
please
is
that
okay.
C
Northern
power
grid
is
the
people
who
own
the
set
of
wires,
which
comes
into
your
house,
the
network,
the
transport
network
effectively
for
the
electricity
into
your
house.
The
customer
is
obvious
and
he
wants
to
use
the
fuel
that
he's
buying
to
drive
the
car.
But
sadly
there
is
a
leakage
and
it's
a
leakage
going
to
the
environment
and
everybody's
happy.
C
In
that
picture,
the
electricity
supplier
is
being
paid,
northern
power
grid
is
being
paid
because
it's
on
the
meter,
the
customer
is
paying
but
doesn't
know
that
he's
paying
an
excess
amount
and
the
environment
is
paying
because
there's
the
waste
of
fuel.
Now,
if
that
was
one
single
petrol
pump,
you'd
say
problem
with
the
petrol
pump
or
the
behavior
of
the
customer.
C
Let's
get
that
sorted,
but
if
it's
on
every
petrol
pump
in
the
land,
then
there's
a
major
problem.
It's
endemic
and
I
think,
under
those
circumstances,
there'd
be
a
question
left
in
the
house
about
what's
going
on
here,
so
that
describes
the
situation
that
we've
got
and
that
can
give
you
lots
of
technical
background
to
it
and
happy
to
do
so.
C
So
what
we
found
was,
I
think,
I'd
like,
but
can
that
screen
come
off
now,
harriet.
F
C
Good,
thank
you.
So
that's
that's
the
situation
that
we
found
now.
I
became
aware
by
investigating
that
the
policies
which
off
gem,
the
regulations
which
they
use
to
guide
our
network
monopoly,
northern
power
grid
and
every
other
district
distribution
network
company
the
policies
do
not
have
an
incentive
for
them
to
even
address
the
actual
voltage
which
is
received
by
the
customer.
C
The
targets
which
they
set,
because
it's
monopolies
to
do
with
quality
of
supply
and
the
only
thing
they
measure
is
the
number
of
minutes
that
an
average
customer
is
off
supply
in
any
year
and
they're
paid
by
incentive
to
reduce
that
number.
So,
typically
40
minutes
per
year,
a
customer
is
off
supply
and
if
you
ask
the
customer
in
the
street,
what
does
he
think
about
the
reliability
of
the
supply?
They're?
Probably
saying?
Yes,
it's
okay.
C
I
can't
remember
when
it
last
went
off
so
they're
happy
with
it,
so
they
don't
complain
now
they,
the
industry,
pride
themselves,
the
regulator,
jonathan
braley.
I
went
to
a
conference
and
addressed
him
there
and
the
industry
pat
themselves
on
the
chest
and
says
how
well
we've
done
because
we've
reduced
the
minutes
over
the
years.
C
The
contention
that
I
put
forward
is
that
on
and
off
is
one
thing,
but
the
quality
of
the
supply,
the
voltage,
the
quality
that's
coming
in
is
another
thing
and
I'd
like
them
to
address
that.
So
my
objective
now
is
to
work
towards
getting
the
new
set
of
regulations
which
will
take
place
in
april
2023
to
include
a
requirement
for
the
network
companies
to
consider
voltage.
C
That's
my
objective.
I
started
with
a
small
thing
in
one
house
which
has
now
gone
to
the
village,
and
now
I
can
tell
you
a
lot
more
good
news
about
how
it's
going
to
affect
your
area,
the
whole
of
the
north
east,
which
is
the
old
yorkshire
electricity
board
in
the
northeast.
C
The
next
slide,
I
think,
would
probably
help
you.
C
They
encouraged
me
to
go
to
northern
paraguay
as
my
local
monopoly
supplier
and
they
came
to
my
house
and
I
persuaded
the
directors
that
indeed
there
was
something
worthwhile
investigating
and
they
invited
me
to
join
their
stakeholder
panel,
which
is
a
panel
which
they
take
representation
from
citizens,
advice
and
local
authorities
and
and
and
me
as
an
independent
and
having
joined
that
they
asked
if
they
could
help.
C
So
I
asked
to
go
to
the
control
room
and
I
have
a
look
at
the
way
the
system
works
and
it
was
like
old
times
for
me,
but
I
also
asked
that
I
should
see
the
readings
from
the
smart
meters
which
are
installed
in
my
area,
my
village
and
there
weren't
many
because
there's
the
smet,
one
meter,
technicality
and
smith,
two
meters.
But
yes,
they
could
get
those
readings
for
me
and
after
a
couple
of
days,
this
is
the
result
that
was
found.
C
So
we
had
a
sample
of
about
35
properties,
sycamore
grove,
high
street
church,
lady
or
whatever
it
was,
and
we
plotted
them
for
this
period
to
find
out
what
real
voltage
was
being
sent
back
by
these
clever
smart
meters
that
everybody
persuaded
to
have
most
have
not
yet
thought
of
a
reason
why
they
would
want
them.
But
that's
what
they've
got
and
would
you
believe
that
was
the
result?
C
Undoctored
total
sample
nothing
taken
away,
everything
what
you
see
in
the
chain
is
on
is
in
the
tin,
so
the
voltage
you'll
notice
is
in
the
cluster.
There
are
about
35
readings,
all
overlaid
there.
Every
one
of
them
individually
can
be
pulled
out
to
investigate
and
you'll
see
that
at
times
right
at
the
top
there,
it
peaks
just
up
towards
the
255
and
down
at
the
bottom.
It
goes
down
as
low
as
226
or
thereabouts.
C
The
red
line
at
the
top
and
the
red
line
dotted
line
at
the
bottom
is
the
statutory
range
of
voltage
which
the
electricity
company
is
permitted
to
operate
within
so
I'll
just
retract.
A
second
to
say
that
if
I
was
to
ask
you
good
people,
what
is
the
voltage
that
you'd
expect
to
receive
in
your
house?
Normally
some
of
you
would
say,
240
and
expect
praise
for
me
to
say
yes
well
done,
others
would
say:
2,
30
and
you'd
get
even
more
praise
because
it
used
to
be
240.
C
It
used
to
be
and
the
variation
that
the
electricity
companies
had
when
I
was
an
engineer,
was
plus
six
percent
minus
six
percent.
That
was
a
range
between
253
and
226,
and
we
designed
the
network
and
operated
the
network
within
that
range.
There
is
a
there
is
a
need
for
that
range
because,
as
the
electricity
goes
down
the
wires
there's
a
slight
bit
of
voltage
drop
because
of
the
resistance
of
the
cables
and
things,
so
they
need
a
tolerance
to
work
with.
C
C
So
britain
has
got
the
unique
position
where
it
can
operate
anywhere
between
plus
10
10
of
230
is
23.
Gets
you
back
to
253
again,
so
they've
got
a
far
bigger
margin
to
work
with,
but
everybody's
happy
manufacturers
are
happy
because
your
dishwasher
works,
then
the
switchgear
works
that
you
buy
from
somewhere
in
france
or
germany.
C
Everything
is
fine,
but
the
industry
has
not
taken
any
initiative
to
vary
the
voltage
at
your
home
or
the
small
shop
up
the
street
or
the
small
factory
or
the
office
they've
decided
to
keep
it
for
themselves,
and
you
may
ask
well
why
would
they
want
to
do
that?
And
I'm
not
going
to
apportion
blame?
But
I
think
broadly,
it
is
that
they've
had
the
eye
off
the
ball
and
there
has
been
no
incentive
for
them
to
do
anything
else.
They've
been
looking
at
minutes
lost,
but
not
not
been
looking
at
voltage
now.
C
My
meeting
with
northern
pargrid
was
welcomed
and
I
have
to
say,
they're
being
very,
very
responsive
and,
as
a
consequence,
we
now
know
that
we've
got
the
beauty
of
millions
of
smart
meters
being
installed
and
smart
meters
send
their
voltage
readings
every
few
minutes
into
the
control
room
of
northern
power
grid,
and
at
the
moment
the
smart
meter
is
set
to
only
give
a
voltage
exception
report
if
it
is
more
than
three
volts
beyond
those
statutory
limits.
So
in
other
words
it
wouldn't
make
a
noise
if
it
was
256
or
if
it
was
213.
C
It
would
just
be
silent.
I
say
silent,
you
know
in
actual
fact,
is
the
electronic
signals,
but
when
I
asked
them
to
actually
get
the
vaults,
we
got
this
result
and
it
was
what
I
call
what
we
call
in
my
family,
an
aha
moment
whoopsies,
oh
dear,
what
have
we
found
here?
We
joined
the
dots
and
found
something
which
we
didn't
expect
and
neither
did
northern
power
grid
so
a
bit
of
an
embarrassment
for
them.
C
C
C
C
C
So
this
is
good
news
that
I'm
bringing
you
okay
now,
let's
just
make
it
simple,
have
a
look
at
the
diagram
and
as
it
happens,
those
are
the
homes
in
the
middle
you'll
recognize
them
underneath
it
says
all
be
lane
leeds
road
and
warren
lane.
They
are
the
primary
substations
that
feed
into
the
17
substations
in
boston's
fire.
So,
as
it
happens,
boston
spa
is
at
the
break
point
in
the
network.
Shall
we
say:
five
come
from
somewhere,
five
come
from
somewhere
else
and
the
other
seven
come
from
somewhere
else.
C
C
You
follow
me
so
if
we
knock
it
by,
if
we
could
knock
it
down
by
23
volts
you'd
have
10
percent
saving
in
volts.
You
knocked
it
down
by
10,
you
get
5
saving
involves
and
that's
an
objective
which
I
think,
if
you
look
at
the
charts,
is
pretty
well
pretty
good
as
a
target.
Five
percent
so
imagine
five
percent
saving
on
your
energy
bill,
five
percent
saving
on
co2
emitted
at
the
generators
and
five
percent.
C
So
all
of
this
is
good
good.
It's
win-win-win
and
also
people
argue
that
if
there's
less
voltage
in
your
equipment
it
lasts
longer.
Now
I'm
not
going
to
claim
that,
but
we
need
to
just
understand
that
the
simplistic
thing
here
is
you
get
the
data
you
manage
it.
You
take
it
into
a
smart
meter
gateway
at
the
top
of
the
chart
there.
That
goes
into
the
beat
box,
which
is
the
device
we're
saying
how
much
can
we
reduce
or
alter
the
voltage
that
goes
into
the
control
room
and
the
control
room?
C
Has
a
communication
system
which
goes
out
to
orbit
lane
lead
road
and
warren
lane?
That
is
done
now,
not
by
a
manual
tap,
which
is
your
local
substation,
which
is
like
a
water
tap
on
the
top
of
the
transformer
where
a
man
has
to
physically
come
around
and
do
it.
But
this
is
done
on
what
they
call
automatic
voltage
control
avc,
where
the
signal
from
the
control
room
goes
to
the
primary
substation
feeding
it
at
11.
Volts
11
kv
volts
and
can
vary
it
up
or
down.
C
So
we've
now
got
the
magic
of
a
smart
meter
talking
to
the
control
room
talking
to
the
substation
and
varying
the
voltage
in
a
controlled
way.
Now
that,
for
me,
is
magic-
and
I
have
to
say,
with
as
a
project
team
within
northern
power
grid,
they've
commissioned
sheffield
university,
various
other
people
to
do
the
electrical
equipment.
C
Some
improvements
to
be
made
to
telecommunications
there's
various
things
to
do
with
checking
that
the
control
system
doesn't
go
out
of
control
and
so
there's
lots
of
close
processes
which
you're
taking
in
place
and
there's
a
project
board
and
the
chief
engineer
and
the
directors
are
on
it,
we're
all
sort
of
with
us.
It's
not
something
in
the
back
office
somewhere,
we're
all
on
it
and
they've
included
me
as
the
honest
broker,
if
you
like
to
keep
them
on
track,
and
they
welcome
me
to
in
that
role.
C
So
that's
the
story,
I'm
sure
you've
got
questions
and
I'm
sure
you've
got
a
limitation
of
time,
but
leave
time
when
you've
asked
me
questions
please
for
me
to
come
back
to
you
and
say:
what
can
we
do
for
you
keith?
If
you'll
ask
that
question
I'll,
be
like
delighted
and
ready
to
give
you
an
answer.
B
Well,
no
thank
you
keith.
That
was
that
was
excellent.
I
think
I
think
you
had
me
when
he
said
five
to
ten
percent
saving
in
power
and
thus
carbon
and
thus
kept.
I
mean
it's.
It
reads
like
an
unalloyed
good,
so
I've
got
a
couple
of
questions,
but
just
take
it
as
read
that
at
the
end
of
members
questions
I
will
ask:
what
can
we
do
for
you
keith,
and
then
you
can
answer
that
one
at
the
end
as
well.
G
Thank
you
very
much,
I'm
not
sure
my
hand
was
the
first
one
to
be
put
up,
but
thank
you
very
much
indeed,
for
this
excellent
presentation
and
the
win-win-win
I
actually
went
along
to
the
northern
power
grid
workshop
last
night,
where
this
was
mentioned.
So
I
was
particularly
interested.
My
one
of
my
questions
is
just
first
of
all:
is
this
likely
to
work
for
areas?
You
talked
about
about
boston,
spa
being
a
break
point.
Would
this
work
for
other
areas
that
are
not?
G
Can
I
answer
questions?
Yes,.
C
It's
symptomatic
across
the
whole
nation,
so
the
objective
by
chance,
boston,
spy,
happens
to
have
found
me
and
I
haven't
been
sufficiently
active
to
get
it
revealed,
but
it's
purely
a
test
for
boston's
fire
at
the
moment,
but
it
the
the
test
itself
and
the
old
elaine
and
the
various
prime
ministers
feed
beyond
boston
spa,
because
this
has
got
off
gm
approval
and
their
payment.
It's
an
open
book.
C
It's
it's
not
concealed,
and
the
view
is
that
at
the
right
time
we
want
to
roll
out
the
results
from
this
along
the
way,
not
just
at
the
end
or
every
network
operator
in
the
country
to
be
aware
of
it,
so
they
can
roll
it
out
in
their
area
and
now,
in
other
words,
for
me,
it's
five
percent
for
the
nation
there's
29
million
domestic
customers
from
probably
10
million
industrial
and
smaller
consumers.
All
of
those
can
have
benefit
of
up
to
five
percent.
C
So
if
you
look
at
that,
it's
if,
if
a
typical
electricity
bill
of
a
domestic
customer
in
your
area
in
my
area
and
everywhere
else,
is
30
or
40
quid
we're
talking
about
a
billion
pounds
a
year
on
energy
savings,
including
for
the
vulnerable,
we're
saving
a
typical
consumption
of
electricity
uses
about
a
ton
of
co2
to
produce,
and
if
we
could
have
five
percent
of
that,
you
can
take
that
as
a
credit
and
we've
got
the
so.
In
other
words,
the
beneficia
benefit
is
nationwide.
C
What
I've
established
is
that
the
policy
at
running
the
11kv
network
is
11.1.
11.2
11.3
is
endemic.
It's
built
into
the
system
and
and
engineers
have
had
no
incentive
to
do
anything
about
it,
but
give
you
an
id
an
indication
of
why
incentives
are
important
when
the
regulator
said.
You've
got
a
final
set
of
wires,
it's
a
monopoly.
We
want
you
to
look
after
your
customers
and
set
a
target
for
minutes
lost
they've
used
their
best
skills
and
their
cleverness
to
say
how
can
we
save
this?
So
I'll?
C
Give
you
a
very
good
example:
there
is
a
cable
in
the
street.
It's
been
damaged
by
jcb
or
water
in
the
network
box
and
it's
an
intermittent
fault
and
the
fuse
goes
in
the
local
substation.
So
the
engineer
is
fetched
from
his
bed
and
he
goes
out
checks.
It
out
puts
a
new
fuse
in
walks
away.
It's
taken
him
two
hours
and
150
or
250.
Customers
have
been
off
supply
for
two
hours.
C
C
That
was
because
they
were
targeted
to
reduce
the
customer
minutes
lost
now.
What
I'm
saying
is
if
they
were
to
be
targeted
to
check
the
voltage
at
the
end
result,
they
fought
for
this
consumer
and
be
monitored
for
that.
We
would
all
get
the
benefit
and
they
could
go
away
home
proud
at
night
that
they're
serving
the
nation
in
a
better
way
than
they
are
at
the
moment.
B
Again,
it's
fascinating
kevin
carl.
D
Thank
you
that
went
to
providing
an
answer
to
one
of
my
questions.
D
Actually,
so
that's
that's
fine
that
the
answer
was
long
first,
I
want
to
say
thanks
for
a
clear
presentation,
because
that
really
did
explain
to
us
exactly
what's
behind
it
and-
and
we
don't
all-
have
your
your
knowledge
and
experience
of
this,
so
that
was
that
was
a
great
thank
you
and
made
it
very
clear
and
thanks
for
the
work
you've
done,
I
thought
it
was
a
startling
reminder
of
just
what
one
individual
could
have
in
terms
of
an
impact
on
this
agenda.
D
I
know
not
all
of
us
have
the
experience
you've
got
of
working
there,
but
if
this
did
change
across
the
country,
it's
a
a
great
thing
for
us
to
be
able
to
to
see
that
one
individual
working
away
has
been
able
to
make
that
change.
D
I
was
going
to
ask
you
a
bit
about
the
total
savings
in
cost
and
carbon,
but
you
answered
that
a
little
bit
in
the
last
question,
but
but
maybe
there's
more,
you
can
expand
on
what
that
would
mean
across
the
country
if
this
changed,
but
I
just
had
one
other
question
or
observation.
Really
I
mean
when
we
looked
at
your
chart
that
showed
the
fluctuations.
D
It
struck
me
very
much
that
now
I
was
one
of
those
that
thought
we
were
still
on
240
volts.
So
that's
where
I'll
need
to
update
some
of
my
thinking.
But
when
you
looked
at
that
chart
it
it,
it
would
appear
that
looked
similar
to
my
answer,
240
seem
to
be
about
the
average
that
people
were
getting.
C
C
We
go
excellent.
Now
have
a
look
at
the
mean
point
in
there
and
tell
me
whether
it's
240-
it's
it's
probably
242.
Isn't
it
me
the
meaning
there
so
you're
right?
So
the
thinking
is
councillor.
It's
it's
it's!
It
is
hanging
around
now.
If
I
tell
you
that
it's
been
25
years
since
the
voltage
changed
so
for
25
years,
we've
had
wastage
taking
place
and
nothing
has
changed
now.
C
I
asked
myself
why
and
I've,
given
you
part
of
the
answer,
I
don't
think
anybody
deliberately
did
this
they're
not
doing
it
for
money,
because
the
regulation
doesn't
give
them
extra
payment
for
extra
units
consumed.
It's
it's
filtered
that
out
it's
just
that
engineers
are
naturally
cautious.
We've
always
done
it
that
way.
C
Isn't
it
if
you're
a
butcher,
you
don't
give
your
prime
beef
out
and
if
you
want
to
keep
a
bit
back
for
a
special
customer
so
that
they're
being
very
cautious
now
I
mean
I'm
being
cynical,
but
I
need
to
be
at
times
to
get
these
people
to
to
respond
to
what
I'm
saying
is
wrong:
they've
accepted
it,
they
have
to
say
northern
pakis
accepted
it.
So
does
that
answer
now
co2
you
asked
about
here:
can
we
get?
C
Can
we
get
rid
of
that
chart
and
go
back
to
the
normal,
please
so
co2
and
depending
on
what
the
generation
is
at
any
one
time
and
by
the
way
it's
the
generators
that
are
getting
the
money
out
of
this
by
selling
more
electricity?
So
me,
working
with
northern
power
grid
does
no
harm
to
their
profits,
but
it
does
take
away
income
to
the
generators
out
there,
because
they're,
making
electricity
and
pumping
out
co2
and
and
we're
having
to
pay
for.
F
C
If
you
look
at
that
the
depending
on
the
particular
moment
of
production
of
electricity,
there
is
a
different,
very
amount
of
co2
being
produced
and
there
is
a
daily
live
app
that
you
can
get,
which
tells
you
precisely
okay.
So
it's
difficult
to
predict
totally
what
the
savings
will
be,
but
it
will
be
savings
and,
on
the
rule
of
thumb,
I'm
told
that
about
a
ton
of
co2
is
is
the
typical
use
of
production
of
co2
for
a
typical
customer?
C
B
Oh,
that's
excellent.
I
am
a
little
bit
conscious
of
time.
Colleagues
so
of
castle
butler,
then
castle
bentley,
then
council,
illinois.
F
Yes,
thank
you
chair.
That
was
very,
very
interesting
presentation
actually
and
when
I
was
at
school
science
subjects
were
my
worst
subject.
I
know
it
reminds
me
why
they
were
so.
If
mr
jackson
wanted
a
layman
to
ask
a
question,
he's
got
the
right
man,
three
very,
very
quick
questions.
F
F
That's
question
number
one
question
two:
in
order
to
achieve
the
eventual
savings
generally
in
this
world,
it
requires
initial
upfront
costs
of
some
description
and
I
just
wondered
what
those
costs
might
be
in
proportion
to
the
potential
savings
and
then,
thirdly,
is
there
any
possibility
that
in
a
household
with
several
people,
with
computers
on
and
televisions
and
radios
and
central
heating,
and
all
the
rest
of
it
that
at
some
point
on
the
lower
level,
the
smart
meet
to
say?
Oh
well,
this
is
too
much
so
we're
going
to
switch
something
off.
F
C
Try
and
answer
smart
meters
complicated,
subject
I'll,
try
and
make
it
simple.
The
government
wants
us
to
have
smart
meters,
claiming
that
we
will
save
energy,
but
the
smart
meter
doesn't
save
energy.
It
just
tells
you
how
much
you're
using
so
that
you
can
switch
off
when
you
realize
that
kettle
takes
this
or
that
that
was
the
objective.
But
the
potential
for
smart
meter
is
far
greater
than
most
people
realize,
and
I
think
the
clever
people
in
government
have
realized
that.
C
So
it's
an
independent
company,
there's
one
for
the
north
of
britain,
one
for
the
south
and
all
that
data
goes
into.
There
is
a
data
handling
thing
and
from
there
it
goes
to
to
the
to
the
users,
and
now
then,
let's
see
if
I
can
get
back
on
track
with
the
question
that
you
asked
now,
then
the
smart
meters
have
got
the
ability
to
switch
you
on
and
off,
but
principally
they're
sending
data
back
on
usage
at
any
one
time
through
time
of
day
and
then
aggregating
it
into
a
bill.
C
There
is
a
belief
that
that
may
be
used
in
the
future
for
signals
to
be
used
to
cause
you
to
say.
Oh
this
tariff
supplier.
Octopus,
for
example,
will
give
me
a
tariff
where,
if
I
can
arrange
my
consumption
during
the
night
for
four
hours
to
charge
my
electric
vehicle,
I
can
have
that
electricity
at
5p
instead
of
15..
C
So
that's
the
way
that
smart
meters
was
anticipated.
However,
in
this
case,
I
think
I've
found
a
use
for
the
smart
meter,
which
is
costing
typically
350
quid
a
household
to
install.
I
found
a
use
for
it,
which
is
going
to
be
used
for
the
benefit
of
everybody
because
bear
in
mind
you're
all
paying
that
350
quid,
because
it's
the
now
allowed
cost
which
comes
down
the
wires
again
into
your
bill.
So
let's
have
some
benefit
from
it.
C
C
Does
that
answer
your
question,
mr
buckley?
Okay,
thank
you.
Now
the
other
thing
was
costs
and
then
you're
saying
cut
these
things.
Don't
come
for
free.
So
what's
the
capital
cost
well,
first
of
all
the
the
costs,
the
physical
cost
that
you
would
be
wanting
to
do
if
you
wanted
to
roll
this
out,
would
be
to
make
sure
that
the
communication
between
the
control
room
and
the
primary
substations
is
adequate
for
the
job
yeah.
C
You
would
want
to
design
a
software
box
to
handle
the
data
coming
in
and
you
would
want
to
make
sure
that
it
was
thoroughly
programmed
that
is
in
large
part
being
done
by
northern
powergrid.
Now,
if
somebody
else
wanted,
when
working
when
we've
completed,
they
don't
own
the
copyright
to
this
it's
freely
available
for
everybody
and
they've
openly
said
that
it's
available
for
anybody
wants
it.
C
So
the
costs
there's
some
noise
coming
in,
don't
use
here.
So
the
costs
I
think
northern
power
grid
wouldn't
want
me
to
declare
the
cost,
but
they
have
got
funding,
and-
and
this
is
a
two
or
three
year
project
and
the
cost
at
the
moment
by
my
book-
is
heading
for
about
a
million
pound
and
that's
full
of
the
research,
the
design
of
the
box,
the
telecommunications,
the
extra
equipment
which
might
be
needed
so
circa,
one
million
pound.
C
C
C
It's
got
air
source
heat
pump
and
photovoltaic
and
photo
thermal
thermal
on
the
roof,
and
all
of
that
and
knowing
that
this
new
house
that
I
was
building
was
across
the
road
from
the
first
place,
where
I
found
high
voltage
and
is
therefore
off
the
same
network,
and
I
know
that
at
this
moment
this
morning,
for
example,
I
was
receiving
248
volts
from
northern
power
grid.
Bearing
in
mind,
I
would
be
quite
happy
with
so
I'm
getting
248.
C
But
by
this
in
designing
and
building
the
house,
I've
included
my
own
transformer,
which
knocks
off
15
volts
from
the
voltage
which
comes
into
the
meter.
I
also
asked
northern
power
grid
tool,
the
tap
alt
of
the
tap
on
the
local
substation,
the
six
volts.
So
when
I
read
my
voltage
meter
this
morning,
I
automatically
add
21
to
it,
so
I'm
actually
running
at
227
plus
21
248,
that's
the
voltage.
C
They
would
otherwise
have
been
giving
me
without
my
intervention
so
and
my
equipment
for
the
last
five
years
has
worked
perfectly
source
heat
pump,
lighting
computers,
dishwashers,
all
the
things
that
people
have
in
a
modern
house.
Never
ever
failed
me.
So
there's
living
proof
there
that
it
will
work.
B
Fantastic
right,
keith
I
could.
I
could
pretty
much
listen
to
you
all
day.
Unfortunately,
we
don't
have
all
day
in
terms
of
time
of
this
committee.
It's
been
really
fascinating.
I've
got
councillors
bentley
and
anyone
who
still
asks
questions.
So
if
we
could
have
gravity
of
questions
and
brevity
of
response,
that
would
be
much
appreciated.
We
have
covered
an
awful
lot
of
ground
in
the
subject,
because
I
do
want.
B
I
don't
want
keith
to
at
the
end,
just
to
which
is
he's
got
to
really
be
within
sort
of
five
minutes,
just
really
to
say
what
he
wants
from
us
after
his
presentation.
So
jonathan,
please.
E
Thanks
chair
and
thanks
keith
I'll
just
endorse
what
everyone
else
has
said:
terrific
presentation,
very,
very
understandable
for
the
for
the
lay
people
amongst
us.
E
One
question
I
think
you
probably
answered,
but
the
first
thing
that
came
to
to
my
mind
when,
when
you
explained
it
so
clearly
is
why
has
it
taken
the
industry
so
long
to
understand
this,
and
I
think
you
probably
answered
it
in
terms
of
well
there's
no
incentive
not
to,
but
if
you
look
at
other
utilities
like
water
and
gas,
particularly
and
I
used
to
be
in
the
gas
industry,
leakage
was
one
of
the
key
performance
indicators
both
internally
and
from
the
regulator.
E
So,
but
you
may
have
answered
that
already,
but
if
you've
got
any
any
more
to
say
on
that,
I'd
be
interested,
the
other
one
that
really
caught
my
attention
was.
You
were
saying
the
other
benefit
apart
from
the
reduction
of
co2,
etc
was
it
it
enabled
more
capacity
on
the
network
so
as
the
demands
from
things
like
electric
cars
and
and
the
move
from
gas,
etc,
you
could
be
meeting
some
of
that
demand
from
increased
capacity
on
the
network.
E
Do
you
know
sort
of
what
percentage?
What
what
impact
in
terms
of
a
percentage
of,
because
we
have,
we
probably
have
a
a
forecast
of
how
much
more
demand
is
going
to
be
on
the
network.
So
how?
Much
of
that
could
be
met
by
the
increased
capacity?
Because
of
because
of
lowering
the
voltage.
C
Can
I
respond
counselor
marshall.
C
Very
briefly,
there
is
no
requirement
in
the
electricity
regulations
to
look
at
the
pressure,
which
is
the
voltage
voltage
I'm
I
I
often
ask
myself
if
I
was
the
water
company
and
I
was
trying
to
reduce
my
leakage.
What
would
I
do?
I
wouldn't?
C
F
C
Complicated
I'm
going
to
make
it
brief.
Within
the
electricity
industry,
the
design
of
networks
is
done
by
the
low
voltage
engineers
doing
one
set
of
wiring
and
the
high
voltage
network
doing
others.
Those
two
if
they
were
to
get
together
would
get
the
benefits
of
scale
in
any
case,
but
it's
not
just
that.
It's
habit,
I
believe
and
and
a
wish
to
be
cautious.
Okay,
the
other
question
was
capacity
of
networks.
The
next
10
years
is
going
to
be,
and
councillor
ray
will
know
this.
C
We
had
a
discussion
before
when
I
met
him
once
the
the
next
10
years
on.
Decarbonization
is
going
to
be
a
phenomenal
change
in
the
sector,
and
so
much
is
gonna
happen,
but
we
know
that
gas
has
got
to
reduce
and
we
know
that
electricity
is
going
to
be
the
place
where
in
all
probability,
there
will
be
extra
demand,
witness
electric
vehicles,
witness
the
fact
you
can't
have
a
gas
boiler
in
a
new
house
from
2025
witnesses.
C
Okay,
now
yeah.
If
we're
saving
five
percent
on
the
network
it
mean,
and
in
the
energy
demand
it
means
there's
five
percent
saving
on
the
network.
Coming
to
your
house,
it'll
be
spread
all
over
the
place,
but
without
it,
they're
gonna
have
to
dig
up
roads
and
crossings
and
disturbance
to
traffic
and
society.
C
If
we
can
take
the
advantage
of
that
five
percent,
it
will
avoid
the
capital
expenditure.
It
will
use
the
assets
which
are
in
the
ground
more
effectively
than
they
otherwise
would
be.
So
it's
it's
a
benefit
of
of
scale,
and
typically
it's
gonna.
If
we
can
say
five
percent,
then
there's
five
percent
within
that.
B
D
Indeed,
yes,
first
of
all,
thank
you
for
an
excellent
presentation
and
I
absolutely
applaud
what
you're
doing
and
and
the
benefits
will
come
from
it.
D
D
I
was
just
thinking
that
there
is
one
reason
why
the
savings
might
not
be
quite
as
great
as
it
might
anticipate,
though,
to
still
be
savings
and
still
worth
doing,
but
if
people
are
already
regulating
their
consumption,
their
watts
consumption,
for
instance,
with
room
thermostats
or
with
other
devices,
to
reduce
other
measures
to
reduce
consumption
princesses,
which
the
kettlebell
will
boil
faster
at
a
higher
voltage.
So
the
the
kettle
cycle
will
be
will
be
shorter
at
a
high
voltage
and
longer
at
a
lower
voltage.
D
So
all
those
measures
would
tend
to
correct
for
the
waste
anyway
and
to
the
extent
that
people
are
already
correcting
for
the
waste
and
and
keeping
within
spec
will
there
surely
be
slightly
less
savings
than
we'd?
Otherwise
expect
when.
C
I
come
back
yes
it.
I
thought
that
question
might
come
and
indeed
it's
one
which
has
troubled
me
volts
times:
amps
equals
watts,
which
is
what
I
started.
If
you
use
you
want
watts
to
heat
your
kettle
or
or
whatever
it
is
to
raise
the
temperature
of
the
room.
So
if
you
would
reduce
the
volts,
the
energy
any
one
moment
is
less
and
therefore
it
will
take
longer
for
the
heat
to
be
put
into
that
place.
So
you
won't
save
any
energy
in
that
utility
in
that
use.
C
However,
a
motor
controls,
fans,
pumps
and
things
like
that
computers
lighting
doesn't
need
that
excessive
voltage
and
it's
there
that
you
can
make
the
saving.
Now.
I
started
that
by
thinking
that,
at
its
simplest,
one
percent
saving
would
give
one
percent
saving
in
energy
because
of
vaults
times
amps,
and
I
modified
that
and
back
said
well,
if
it's
not
five
percent
for
five,
it
might
be
four
or
three
and
a
half,
but
it's
still
worth
having.
C
However,
I
have
read
learned
papers
and
I'm
reassured
by
academics
and
others
that
in
fact,
it
is
very
close
to
one
percent.
So
I'm
not
going
to
argue
about
the
bit.
All
I
know
is
there
is
a
benefit
there
and
if
it's
five
or
four
or
three
I
don't
care.
I
just
know
that
when
you
buy
electricity,
some
of
it
that
you
buy
is
to
give
the
magnetic
field
for
your
motor
to
work
and
this
that
and
the
other,
and
that,
if
you
don't
need
it,
don't
buy
it.
B
Fantastic
right
questions
done,
council,
anyone
with
actually
that
was
by
your
standards
that
actually
was
quite
concise.
So
I
appreciate
that
I
really
do
keef
in
in
about
a
minute
and
I'm
not
I'm
not.
We
just
have
such
a
big
agenda
to
get
through
on
this
committee,
there's
never
enough
time
on
committee.
B
C
It's
simple,
really,
I'm
a
one-man
band.
I
found
something
which
was
quite
amazing
and
I've
pushed
it
and
pushed
it
and
pushed
it,
and
I've
used
the
skill
that
I've
picked
up
in
many
many
years
and
joined
dots
and
caused
people
to
think
so.
I
have
a
disturbance
to
the
system
and
so
far
I'm
really
delighted
to
sell
others
at
what
I'm
achieving
I'm
not
doing
it.
For
me,
I'm
doing
it
for
society.
C
The
conscience
has
been
pricked
of
northern
power
grids.
They
know
that
I've
told
them
that
if
they
don't
look
after
the
interest
of
the
customer,
somebody's
going
to
show
it
to
the
public
and
there'll
be
a
ppi
scandal
which
says
what,
for
25
years,
you've
been
ripping
us
off.
So
you
know
they
know
that
I've
got
hold
of
something
and
they've
welcomed
it
with
open
arms.
C
I've
written
and
I've
met
the
regulator,
jonathan
braley
of
the
afghan
regulator
and
I've
challenged
him
over
the
same
thing,
but
he's
an
economist
and
he's
got
a
team
of
people
around
him
and
they're
sucking
through
their
teeth
and
I've
been
to
base,
and
I've
been
giving
me
the
money
in
the
pinstripe
soup
and
his
briefcase
and
apple
and
his
dog
and
he's
giving
me
the
standard
procedure
and
I'm
saying
come
on.
You
guys
think
about
it
and
they're
all
tunnel
vision.
C
I'm
now
aware
that
the
regulator
is
going
to
change
the
rules
and
he's
in
consultation
at
this
moment,
and
I've
made
my
submissions
to
him
already
and
I
met
the
deadline
of
the
1st
of
october
and
send
a
five-page
submission,
and
you
have
a
copy,
I
believe
polly.
I
think
you
yeah
so
you've
got
that
copy.
It
makes
the
points
that
I've
made
to
you
this
morning.
I
think
fairly
eloquently
and
I'm
hoping
that
that
isn't
just
a
single
voice
from
a
weird
guy
somewhere
in
yorkshire.
C
But
it's
taken
board
seriously
because
there's
a
lot
of
meat
in
it.
If
only
I
can
get
people
to
look
so
far,
the
regulator
hasn't
given
me
a
response
to
that
submission
and
it
is
purely
a
single
submission
from
an
individual,
whereas
the
rest
of
the
industry,
national
grid
and
the
electricity
companies
and
citizens
advice
are
making
their
submissions,
and
I
don't
believe
any
of
them
will
include
in
their
input
comments
about
quality
of
supply
bracket,
voltage,
optimization
think
voltage,
optimization
yeah,
one
of
the
things
that
we
can
achieve
at
the
moment.
E
B
No
well,
no,
it's
just
you!
Well,
it's
it's
a
both
time
and
the
fact
you
were
chopping
up
a
bit,
so
it
sounds
so
it's
to
be
honest.
It's
probably
one
of
the
power
generators
tweaking
your
voltage.
I
think
it's
is.
We
can
certainly
help
one
of
the
purposes
of
seaac
is
to
is
to
lobby
and
cajole
and
and
to
try
to
influence.
B
We
will
certainly
want
to
help
you
in
that.
So
what
we
will
have,
as
a
committee
is
further
discussion
amongst
ourselves
and
with
councilman
herring
who's.
The
exec
board
member
on
here
with
council
with
I
would
ev
and
visit
members
of
parliament
and
also
via
council
of
carlill,
who
was
a
person
on
point
with
the
combined
authority,
west
yorkshire,
council
partners
as
well
to
discuss
this
further.
I
think
we
can
add
some
some
lobbying
heft
at
the
minimum,
so
I
do
have
to
wrap
this
item
up
now.
B
So
I'd
like
to
thank
you
as
the
chair
for
a
really
fascinating,
really
fascinating
presentation
and
discussion.
It's
we
do.
We
get
mixed
news
on
this
committee.
Moments
of
existential
dread
mixed
with
some
some
genuine
good
news
stories,
and
I
think
this
is
a
one
of
the
good
news
story
items
I
think
we'd
very
much
love
to
help.
So
I
think
we'll
probably
have
a
very
productive
working
relationship
keith.
B
So
on
behalf
of
committed
members,
I'd
like
to
thank
you
for
your
presentation
and
everything
you've
done
today,
but
we
do
have
to
move
on
to
the
next
lighting
keith.
So
thank
you
very
much.
You're
most
welcome
to
stay
and
hang
around
and
listen
to
us
or
you
can
be
close.
It's
entirely
up
to
you,
but
thank
you
very
much
so
folks.
B
No,
no
thank
you
right
gang.
Thank
you
all
right.
Our
next
item
is
clean
air.
So
polly's
going
to
lead
off
on
this
with
an
update
and
everything
that's
been
clean.
Air
related
has
been
going
on
of
late,
including
the
clean
air
zone,
and
we
also
have
available
for
questions
council,
james
lewis,
deputy
council,
whose
portfolio
and
the
cast
falls
under.
So
I
think
without
further
ado
polly.
If
you
don't
mind.
D
H
H
Right
so
just
starting
with
sort
of
an
element
of
background
air
quality
has
been
kind
of
high
up
the
agenda
for
a
long
while
and
and
what
this
chart
just
shows
is
actually
the
sort
of
progress
you
know
going
back
into
the
sort
of
1995
and
the
way
that
we
have
had
a
steady
downward
trend
of
no2
and,
however,
in
2017
we
came,
it
really
came
to
the
forefront
in
terms
of
what
was
happening
at
a
national
level
in
the
clean
air
zone
framework
that
was
published
and
we
were
told
we
had
to
accelerate
compliance,
so
compliance
is
40
micrograms
per
meter,
cubed
on
an
annual
average
and
and
so
we
went
into
the
government's
national
programme
and
were
one
of
the
first
cities
to
get
ready
to
actually
move
ahead
with
a
clean
air
zone.
H
H
So
as
part
of
that
the
government
started
looking
at
when
in
2021,
we
should
be
looking
to
bring
it
in
and
started
to
do
their
own
modelling
when
they
did
the
modelling.
They
started
to
come
to
the
conclusion
that
actually,
we
may
already
be
compliant,
and
they
asked
us
to
undertake
a
review
to
see
whether
that
would
stay
if
it
wasn't
for
covered.
H
So
if
we
were
to
go
back
to
normal
traffic
levels,
actually
what
what
would
be
the
outcome,
so
they
asked
us
so
at
a
national
level,
they
obviously
use
national
standardized
data
locally.
We
have
the
benefit
of
more
localized
data
in
terms
of
fleet
profile
and
things.
H
So
we
fed
that
local
data
into
our
review
and
what
we
found
was
that,
in
terms
of
even
if
car
transport
was
to
go
five
percent
higher
than
what
let's
call
it
normal,
so
pre-covered
and
actually
we're
unlikely
to
ever
exceed
legal
limits
again
and-
and
the
key
reasons
behind
that,
which
is
the
kind
of
positive
story,
is
that
actually,
our
fleet
has
just
changed
so
dramatically,
and
so,
if
you
look
at
those
kind
of
infographics
along
the
bottom
on,
you've
got
the
2016
picture
of
compliance
versus
the
2020
and
it's
it's
been
a
complete
turnaround,
especially
on,
for
example,
the
buses
and
so
on
the
buses
we
had.
H
You
know
maybe
one
in
20
that
were
compliant
back
in
2016.,
we're
now
almost
93.
So
you
know
one
that
isn't
compliant
and
then
it
with
the
hgv
we're
above
80
on
both
rigid
and
articulated.
But
you
know
almost
at
90
percent
and-
and
that
was
never
predicted-
and
I
think
part
of
that
has
been
this
announcement-
that
there
was
a
cav
coming.
H
There's
been
a
lot
of
work
at
a
national
level
around
the
bus
fleet,
in
terms
of
retrofit
solutions
and,
and
so
we've
seen
an
amazing
change
and
seen
a
large
reduction
in
carbon
as
a
result
and
as
well
as
that,
we
were
also
starting
to
see
a
surge
locally
in
terms
of
ultra
low
emission
vehicles
and-
and
I
think
you
know
leeds
is
actually
quite
well
recognized
internationally-
believe
it
or
not
for
all
our
work,
we're
doing
on
the
charging
infrastructure
for
the
way
that
we're
setting
up
some
of
our
local
charging
infrastructure
and
also
things
like
our
electric
van
scheme,
which
was
kind
of
the
first
in
the
country
to
be
running
on
a
larger
scale
and
so
and
things
like
our
free
parking
for
electric
vehicles.
H
So
it's
been
a
lot
to
kind
of,
encourage
it
and
just
to
raise
that
profile.
Generally,
so,
what's
happened
so
as
of
maybe
tuesday,
I
think
this
week
we
finally
received
the
letter
from
the
government
where
they
have
formally
revoked
the
ministerial
direction,
and
so
we
are
no
longer
able
to
implement
elite
clean
air
zone.
H
However,
as
part
of
our
kind
of
negotiations,
we
have
managed
to
keep
just
over
five
and
a
half
million
pounds
to
continue
supporting
businesses
and
especially
the
taxi
and
private
hire
fleet,
to
make
sure
that
they
retain
the
vehicles
they've
upgraded
to
and
to
carry
on
supporting
more
vehicles
to
to
change
over.
So
I
mean
just
looking
at
our
taxi
fleet,
we
now
have
2
300
petrol
hybrids
on
fleet,
which
is
there's
nobody
across
the
country.
Who's
got
anything
comparable
to
that.
H
So
the
change
we've
seen
and
what
you
know
some
of
the
drivers
are
saying
to
us-
is
actually
they're
enjoying
driving
them.
They've
seen
the
benefits
in
terms
of
sort
of
the
sound
and
also
sort
of
maintenance
and
and
the
running
costs,
and
we
are
still
under
an
obligation,
as
we
always
would
have
been,
to
continue
to
monitor
and
evaluate
our
air
quality
and
to
make
sure
that
you
know
we
there's
no
changes
or
any
differences.
H
We
obviously
have
an
ampr
camera
network
and
we
will
use
some
of
that
to
improve
our
our
transport
modeling.
So
traditionally
we
were
quite
reliant
on
just
doing
kind
of
one-off
counts
and
things,
but
actually
that
network
allows
us
to
get
a
much
better
picture
of
what's
happening
in
the
city
and
and
we're
also
exploring
other
uses.
H
So
we're
just
looking
to
see
what
potential
that
camera
network
offers,
and
we
also
that
board
yesterday
have
signed
up
to
the
world
health
organization
guidelines
for
air
quality,
which
are
slightly
more
stringent
than
the
english
regulations
for
particulate
matter,
and
so
early
next
year,
we'll
be
bringing
forward
a
sort
of
action
plan
for
what
else
we
can
do
to
to
try
and
achieve
that.
And
I
think,
as
a
council
we
have
always
said
we
were
never
going
to
be
happy
with
compliance.
H
So
compliance
was
the
barrier,
the
artificial
number
that
was
put
there
and
but
we've
always
said
that
we
want
to
go
further
and
we
want
to
do
more
to
improve
because
of
the
impact
on
health
and-
and
so
you
know,
the
clean
air
zone
as
it
was
designed,
wouldn't
offer.
Any
additional
benefits,
because
we've
already
achieved
that
level
of
compliance.
H
However,
we
will
look
for
other
things
and
other
measures
that
we
can
do
to
try
and
improve
air
quality
further
and
we've
been
asked
the
questions
numerous
times.
Well,
can't
you
just
carry
on
with
the
cars
and,
as
I've
already
said,
what
we
had
designed
wouldn't
add
any
additional
benefit,
because
the
level
of
compliance
and
if
we
wanted
to
do
a
strict
because
or
something
else,
we
would
have
to
start
completely
from
scratch
in
terms
of
consultation,
and
we
wouldn't
have
any
financial
support
to
do
so,
because
financial
support
was
just
dependent
on
reaching
compliance.
H
I
think
it's
really
important
to
emphasize
as
well
that
you
know
the
clean
air
zone
was
only
up
for
one
strand
of
what
we're
doing,
and
you
know
we
have
charge
points
going
in
all
over
the
city.
We
are
constantly
bidding
for
additional
funding
and
just
being
successful
with
another
hundred
thousand
just
recently
for
more
kind
of
localized
charging
for
overnight
slower
charges.
We've
got
the
wika
and
ongi
project
going
on
with
rapid
charges
coming
in
across
the
city.
H
Strong
feedback
on
on
sort
of
social
media
for
that,
and
then
we've
had
some
of
the
complementary
transport
schemes
that
are
happening,
such
as
school
street
and
obviously,
all
the
investment
in
connecting
leads.
And
then
we
recently
launched
an
e-bike
trial
which,
within
a
week,
had
received
over
250
applications.
It
got
coverage
in
america
and
and
we
are
lending
out
those
bikes
and
working
through
that
list.
H
So
just
to
summarize,
you
know
it's
a
positive
news
story.
Our
air
quality
is
now
significantly
below
legal
limits
and
we've
got
there
quicker
than
we're.
Anticipating
we've
had
a
scientific
review,
both
internally
and
by
government
and
by
an
independent
panel.
That's
shown
that
our
modelling
is
robust
and
I
think
it's
really
critical
that
people
don't
go
away
with
the
message
that
it's
linked
to
kovic,
because
it's
not
it
is
to
do
with
fleet
compliance
and
fleet
levels.
H
So
you
know
there
shouldn't
be
a
concern
about
car
usage
going
back
up
because
that
has
been
considered
as
you
would
expect.
We've
had
a
fantastic
upgrade
of
vehicles
within
the
city
and
we've
managed
it
says
here.
Sorry,
I
should
have
updated
this
6.9
million,
so
we've
actually
been
given
5.6
of
that.
So
we
can
continue
to
support
people
and
but,
as
I
said,
we
are
continuing
to
work
beyond
those
targets.
B
Fantastic
thanks,
polly.
I
think
that
was
what
that
presentation
was
what's
called
by
the
youngans
as
a
truth
bomb
about.
What's
happened
in
the
city
regarding
everything
you
clean
air,
especially
the
cows,
and
it's
very
welcome
to
to
hear
so.
We've
also
got
councillor
james
lewis
here
to
answer
questions
as
well.
Council
buckley's
got
to
go
early,
so
he's
actually
asked
first,
so
neil
firth,
and
then
he
was
counseling
with
then
councillor
shazad,
so
council
buckley
by
all
means.
F
Yeah,
thanks
chair,
I
don't
actually
have
to
go
that
early,
but
she
actually
probably
finished
quicker
than
I
thought
than
I
thought
she
would
do
so.
F
It
was
just
a
brief
confirmation
question
really
the
five
and
a
half
million
that
we've
been
left
with
in
order
to
supply
grants
and
so
on.
Presumably,
when
that
five
and
a
half
million
is
exhausted,
we're
going
to
have
to
bring
the
grant
system
to
an
end.
So
that's
the
first
question
and
therefore
we're
not
going
to
be
left
with
any
legacy
loss
if
you
like
liability
and,
secondly,
in
terms
of
the
infrastructure
which
has
more
or
less
been
completed.
F
What,
if
any
usages,
have
been
considered
for
this,
or
will
it
simply
be
taken
away?
That
was
it
sure.
E
Chair,
can
I
ask
I'll
answer
the
first
part
of
council
buckley's
question
which
is
well
there's
a
broader
point
here
and
we
agreed
in
the
medium-term
financial
strategy
for
the
council's
budget
at
september
executive
board
that,
as
a
point
of
principle
where
external
funding
was
either
withdrawn
or
not
made
available,
given
the
dire
state
of
the
council
finances,
we
would
no
longer
use
council
resources
to
replace
external
funding.
So
that's
the
point
to
get
overall
on
the
clean
air
fund.
E
This
has
always
been
funding
that
has
sat
in
a
bubble
separate
from
the
other
council
separate
from
the
rest
of
the
council
budget.
So
every
everything
has
been
externally
funded
through
the
clean
air
funding,
so
you're,
absolutely
right.
Council
buckley.
Once
that
money
is
gone,
it
is
gone.
It's
a
bit
disappointing.
E
We
did
ask
to
extend
the.
We
did
have
to
extend
the
grants
to
hgvs
for
converting
to
compliant
vehicles
using
the
remaining
clean
air
funding,
but
the
government
turned
down
that
section
of
the
request,
which
is
disappointing,
but
I
think
that
probably
covered
all
the
points
about
the
budget
and
finance.
H
Okay
and
then
just
picking
up
the
question
about
the
cameras,
so
we
will
definitely
keep
some
of
the
cameras
in
place
in
terms
of
traffic
monitoring
because
that's
part
of
our
air
quality
obligation
to
still
be
able
to
sort
of
run
those
up-to-date
models
and
accurately
as
possible
and
we're
also
looking
at
potential
of
kind
of
putting
moving
cameras
or
using
them
for
schemes
that
were
already
going
ahead.
H
They
rather
have
to
buy
new
cameras
being
able
to
use
those
as
a
replacement
and
then
also
asking
sort
of
different
partners
across
the
city,
whether
there's
any
use
for
them
and
then,
but
we
don't
have
to
make
a
quick
decision
on
that.
So
we
certainly
certainly
no
intention
to
take
them
down
this
year.
So
we'd
allow
some
time
to
make
sure
that
the
right
decisions
made
for
that
those
assets.
D
Yes,
chair,
I
just
wonder
if
I
could
probe
a
little
more
deeply
about
the
hgv
side
of
things,
because
I
realized
where
people
have
complied
voluntarily.
That's
just
excellent
and
we
should
welcome
that.
But
certainly
when
I
cycle
down
the
a660,
I
still
see
a
fair
number
of
aggregate
lorries
and
you
wonder
why
they
need
to
go
in
the
city
center
and
you
wonder
what
the
echo,
what
the
emissions
levels
are
like,
and
the
noise
and
and
associated
with
this
transport
is
there
anything
more.
H
It
was
only
re,
it
was
about
getting
the
compliance
up
to
euro
six,
it
wouldn't
have
relocated
lorries,
and
so
in
terms
of
that
you
know
ultimately,
within
the
next
couple
of
years,
you
will
start
to
see
all
lorries
upgrade
to
that
anyway,
because
it
came
in
quicker,
the
euro
6
standard
for
hgvs,
and
I
don't
think,
there's
probably
a
lot
else.
I
can
say
in
terms
of
re
relocating
lorries
off
it's
probably
more
of
a
kind
of
highway
question
than
a
kind
of
clean
air
question
specifically.
B
B
As
we've
discovered
for
the
ac
16
headingly,
some
of
the
aggregate
trucks
we
suffer
from
it's
it's
a
long
standing
ask
of
of
not
only
leeds
council,
but
I
think
a
lot
of
highways
authorities
in
the
country
to
have
those
kind
of
powers
of
more
discretionary
powers
like
that
councillor
shazad.
I
Thank
you
chair.
I
welcome
that.
The
government
has
allowed
us
to
keep
the
extra
5.5
million
and
I
hope
we
could
use
that
money
to
keep
on
helping
the
taxi
drivers
actually
reinvest
in
cleaner
and
hybrid
or
electric
vehicles,
because
I
think
that's
been
a
very
positive
thing.
I
That's
come
out
of
the
clean
air
zone
and
I
hope
we
can
maybe
in
some
way
financially
support
those
that
have
bought
these
vehicles
at
such
hard
times
during
covid
as
well,
and
as
you
know,
the
taxi
and
private
hire
economy
has
been
totally
decimated.
As
of
all
the
other
economies
due
to
kovaid.
I
The
only
issue
I
have
is
we
have
many
vehicles
now,
thanks
to
the
government
regulation
of
deregulation
of
the
taxing
private
industry,
because
we
have
many
vehicles
from
kirkland
and
calderdale
and
other
cities
fully
parked
up
in
our
in
our
city
of
leeds
and
in
our
wards
with
their
non-clean
fumes
affecting
our
residents,
and
I
think,
as
the
west
yorkshire
combined
authority.
If
sea
can
actually
push
the
other
councils,
I
know
they
won't
have
the
funding
for
it.
I
So
that's
something
to
look
at
the
only
other
thing
is
this
is
I
know
it's
a
positive
story
that
our
clean-out
emissions
have
come
down,
but
can
we
keep
on
pushing
those
messages
that
it's
a
it's
a
lot
better
to
get
those
hybrid
and
those
electric
vehicles
for
everyone,
not
just
for
taxi
drivers,
because
the
price
of
diesel
and
other
vehicles
have
come
down?
So
it's
in
these
current
times.
I
It's
a
lot
easier
for
people
if
they
have
an
accident
or
they
have
a
bump
to
make
that
choice
of
going
for
those
diesel
or
those
air
polluting
vehicles
compared
to
compared
to
going
for
those
cleaner,
hybrid
vehicles.
So
can
we
have
some
clear
council
sort
of
messaging
going
out
that,
even
though
the
cleaner,
our
ad
is,
is
getting
better,
but
we
need
to
keep
on
striving
to
make
it
even
better
if
possible.
That's
all
chair!
Thank
you.
B
You
know,
thank
you.
I
I
completely
agree.
I
mean
cross-border
vehicles
are
an
issue
so
we'll
we
can
raise
that
at
weiker
as
well,
mohammad
and
yeah
having
an
up
to
date.
Messi
and
one
of
the
things
that
paulie
and
a
team
have
been
able
to
do
is
demonstrate
lower
operating
costs,
whether
it's
taxis,
lgbs
hdv's.
So
we
need
to
just
keep
up
to
date
with
our
that's
a
point
well
made
it's
anything
further
to
add
for
council
shards
questions.
Folks,.
E
Yeah
I
mean
again
with
my
licensing
hat
on
I
mean
I
think
councillors,
as
I
just
pointed
out
again.
You
know
the
failings
of
the
2015
deregulation
act
in
terms
of
allowing
taxing
private
hire
vehicles.
We
don't
have
a
regulatory
relationship
with
to
operate
so
freely
in
leeds
and
it's
something
for
many
reasons:
community
safety,
safeguarding
and
whatnot.
E
We
have
wanted
the
government
to
revoke,
but
that's
fallen
on
deaf
ears
down
in
westminster
and
whitehall
so
far,
but
you
know
we'll
continue
to
make
the
argument
what
mistake
that
piece
of
legislation
was
in
terms
of
the
other
councils,
our
friends
and
neighbors
in
bradford
are
pursuing
a
charging
clean
air
zone
as
well
under
ministerial
direction.
I
don't
believe
that
polly
may
be
able
to
give
us
more
up-to-date
information.
E
I
don't
believe
their
ministerial
direction
has
been
revoked
again.
I
know
from
my
many
conversations
with
the
taxing
private
hire
industry.
Some
members
feel
targeted
by
clean
air
zones,
but
the
way
the
government
has
structured
them
is
the
moment
you
have
a
charging
clean
air
zone.
E
Whichever
option
you
go
for
a
b
c
or
d,
every
single
option
has
taxing
private
higher
vehicles
in
it,
so
bradford
certainly
are
gonna
have
to
do
something
similar
to
what
we
have
have
done
again,
probably
might
know
more
details
about
the
bradford
cause
I
haven't
been.
I
haven't
with
all
the
other
problems
in
the
world.
I've
been
on
top
of
what
bradford
are
up
to.
H
Yeah,
I
know
all
I
can
add
really
is
that
they're
they
haven't
had
their
ministerial
direction
revoked.
They
are
still
working
towards
a
clean
air
zone,
but
are
obviously
you
know
going
through
the
same
modeling
and
discussions
yeah
and
the
only
other
thing
to
say
is
we
only
just
got
confirmation
of
funding
on
tuesday?
H
Oh,
can
you
not
hear
me
yeah,
you
can
okay,
don't
think
councillor.
Warshaw
can
hear
me,
so
we
only
got
confirmation
of
funding
on
tuesday,
so
we
now
just
have
to
work
through
the
detail
of
those
schemes,
but
we
will
be
going
out
to
all
the
taxi
in
private
hire
trades
to
explain
the
different
things
that
are
available,
be
it
new
grants
to
still
be
able
to
upgrade,
or
maybe
support
on
licensing
costs
as
well.
H
So
all
of
that
we
will
make
sure
that
we
communicate
that
really
clearly
and
just
to
say
our
clean
air
day.
We
did
a
week
of
campaigns
which
was
very
much
about
you
know
our
air
has
improved,
but
how?
How
can
you
help
us
keep
breathing
clean
air?
So
it
was
very
much
on
along
the
message
that
you
were
suggesting
about.
B
Great.
Thank
you
very
much,
casa
ray
next.
E
Thank
you
chair
for,
for
many
people
in
the
south,
the
biggest
issue
is
actually
the
motorway
and
actually
the
the
passing
pollution
that
the
cavs
would
never
have
dealt
with
anyway,
because
it
wasn't
our
road.
What
conversations
are
happening
with
national
government
and
highways?
England.
J
E
E
The
air
pollution,
because
we
still
have
some
of
the
highest
respiratory
disorders
in
the
entire
city
and
a
big
part
of
that
is
not
homegrown
traffic.
It's
traffic,
passing
through
the
city
on
a
wonderful
motorway
system.
H
We
we
do
work
with
highways,
england,
in
terms
of
obviously
they've
supported
our
scheme
for
our
electric
van
scheme
in
terms
of
the
motors
I'd
have
to
refresh
my
mind,
but
I
think
they
are
not
non-compliant
roads
from
the
highway
of
england,
so
highways
england
are
under
the
same
obligation
as
us
in
terms
of
monitoring
their
roads,
and
I
think
we
have
done
numerous
checks
with
them
that
they
are
not
non-compliant,
and
so
they
are
in
a
similar
position
to
us
in
the
when
they
target
air
quality
funding.
B
Yeah
that
would
seem
really
sensible,
yeah.
It's
it's
that's
an
issue.
That's
not
going
to
go
away
so
yeah,
let's,
let's
discuss
that
another
time,
council,
forsythe
and
then
councilman
herren.
G
Right,
thank
you
very
much
for
your
report.
Obviously,
it's
really
good
news
that
the
quality
of
the
air
in
leeds
has
improved
considerably
and
also
it's
very
good
news
that
we're
going
to
be
we're,
keeping
that
term
146
million.
G
I
I
just
want
to
flag
up
that
as
polly
said
it.
The
the
clean
air
issue
is
only
part
of
the
whole
really
and
I
think
it's
important
to
make
sure
that
we've
still
got
the
issue
of
congestion,
especially
if
we're
looking
at
our
safe,
active
trouble
as
part
of
that
agenda
as
well,
and
therefore
the
other
part
of
the
agenda
is
also
about
the
climate
emergency.
So
my
question
is
for
all
of
these
electric
charging
points
being
put
into
the
city.
G
Well,
are
they
purchasing
the
electricity
from
suppliers
which
are
who
are
generating
that
electricity
from
renewable
sources?
It's
quite
an
important
point,
because
if
people
are
trying
to
do
their
bit
for
the
climate
emergency,
it's
really
important
that
they
that
we're
generating
power
from
renewables.
B
Cheers
polly
that's
much
appreciated.
It
is
a
good
question
and
as
a
renewable
power
I
think,
is
now
the
cheapest
power
in
the
uk.
You'd
think
people
would
be
buying
it
from
renewable
source.
Council
heron.
A
Thank
you
chair
it's
a
while
ago,
since
I
actually
indicated
to
know
lots
of
people
ahead
of
me
in
the
queue,
but
it
was
really
around
the
question.
A
Actually
have
asked
about
other
parts
of
west
yorkshire
in
particular,
and
council
lewis
has
picked
up
the
point
around
bradford,
a
clean
air
zone
like
him
not
phillips,
speed
with
where
they're
at,
but
as
alongside
the
quality
improvements
that
the
preparations
for
clean
arizona
padding
needs.
A
Clearly,
it's
also
led
to
a
reduction
in
carbon
emissions
and
bearing
in
mind
west
york's
combined
authorities
commitments,
declaration
of
a
climate
emergency
just
quite
keen
to
see
a
kind
of
west
yorkshire
wide
effect
really
to
both
improve
air
quality
and
reduce
carbon
emissions
through
encouragement
of
cleaner
vehicles
across
all
of
our
roads.
Yeah.
A
Like
some
of
my
colleagues
on
this
call,
my
ward
is
right
at
the
border
with
two
of
our
neighbouring
authorities
in
wakefield
and
in
kirklees,
so
clearly
the
work
that
we
do
to
improve
quality
within
our
boundaries
and
and
reduce
carbon
emissions
in
our
boundaries.
It
does
have
not
good
effects.
A
People
do
travel
into
and
out
of
our
city
into
neighbouring
areas,
so
just
kind
of
interested
to
pick
up
that
kind
of
conversation
across
the
broader
footprint
and
obviously,
we've
got
mayoral
elections
coming
up
next
year
and
I'd
hope
that
all
of
the
candidates
will
be
supporting
efforts
to
clean
up
our
air
quality
across
the
piece
and
to
reduce
carbon
emissions
through
such
measures.
Thank
you.
B
No,
no,
thank
you,
I
mean.
Should
we
get
for
our
next
meeting?
Should
we
get
an
update
from
wikileaks
to
bring
together
what
they're
doing
and
what
what
shows
your
partners
are
doing
yeah
and
I
can
write
to
them
as
chair
on
everyone's
behalf
and
saying
the
good
works
that
lee's
doing
and
why
aren't
you
doing
the
same
and
check
if
you
are
doing
the
same?
I
think
that
that'd
be
a
good
start
polly.
You
wanted
to
come
back
now
with
the
answer
to
that
question.
H
B
It
is,
it
is
good
now
I
don't
have
any
more
requests
to
speak
on
this
item.
I
don't
think
great.
Okay,
so.
B
E
J
Hello,
my
name
is
simon
campbell,
skelling
and
I'd
like
to
talk
today
about
a
step.
I
think
the
committee
could
recommend
to
the
council
from
helping
the
fight
against
climate
change
and
that
would
be
to
pass
a
motion
that
either
they
their
pension
fund
provider,
west
yorkshire
pension
fund,
stop
immediately
divesting
in
any
fossil
fuels
and
then
get
rid
of
the
fossil
fuel
industry
holdings
they
hold
within
the
next
five
years,
or
that
they
will
find
another
pension
provider,
and
there
are
other
options.
J
There
are
councils
across
the
uk
who've
completely
either
completely
divested
investing
in
fossil
fuels
or
doing
so
the
next
five
years,
as
well
as
the
environment
agency,
the
city
of
new
york
and
hundreds
of
organizations
worldwide.
You've
seen
that
the
way
the
world
is
going,
I'm
gonna
look
very
quickly
cover
two
two
sides
of
this
I'll.
Let's
quickly,
look
at
the
financial
reasons
for
this
and
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
moral
argument
financially
in
the
last
in
the
last
quarter,
the
financial,
the
fossil
fuel
holdings.
J
So,
in
the
second
quarter
of
this
year,
the
fossil
fuel
holdings
held
by
west
yorkshire,
ponca
pension
fund
over
the
value
of
them
has
dropped
by
1.8
and
the
dividend
value
was
dropped
by
16.4
percent.
Now
the
west
church
french
funder
are
blaming
this
largely
uncovered.
However,
I
would
argue
that
this
is
part
of
a
wider
trend.
In
fact,
the
electricity
transition.
Excuse
me
think
tank
ember
have
recorded
that
throughout
the
world
in
the
last
year.
Sorry,
last
five
years
there
is
a
growing
trend
of
year
on
year.
J
Fossil
fuels
are
being
replaced
by
renewable
sources
and
in
fact,
in
this
year
in
year,
2020
for
the
first
time
ever
for
the
first
half
of
this
year,
more
of
europe's
energy
came
from
renewables
and
came
from
fossil
fuels.
J
So
this
is
part
of
a
trend.
It's
not
it's
not
a
blip
due
to
covert.
It
is
part
of
a
growing
trend
and
in
fact,
in
acknowledgment
of
this
for
the
last
few
years,
the
various
indexes
indices,
the
footsie
and
the
msci,
and
the
stock
markets
have
been
running
fossil
free
indices
so
like
investing
in
one
of
their
standard
indices,
a
normal
footstool
and
all
msci.
J
These
are
exactly
the
same,
the
only
difference
being
that
these
indices
don't
contain
any
investments
in
the
fossil
fuel
industry
and
for
the
last
five
years
these
have
consistently
outperformed
their
parent
indices.
So
the
fossil
fuel
ones
are
outperforming
the
the
sort
of
standard
ones
with
fossil
fuel
investments
included.
J
J
It
doesn't
sit
well
to
have
a
pension
fund
which
is
meant
to
provide
for
people's
later
lives,
investing
in
something
that
is
causing
manifest
danger
and
loss
of
life
throughout
the
world,
particularly
in
some
of
the
less
developed
countries
so
such
as
pakistan,
bangladesh,
india,
are
all
experiencing
thousands
of
deaths
as
a
result
of
drought,
disease
and
floods
yeah.
I
find
that
particularly
ironic
in
many
obviously
with
our
diverse
communities
in
west
yorkshire.
A
lot
of
the
pension
fund
for
dis
members
come
from
the
these.
I've
got
family
back
in
these.
These
countries.
J
Particularly
the
fossil
fuel
industry
is
causing
damage,
and
so
I
would
argue
that
a
simple
step
that
the
committee
could
advise
the
council
to
do
is
to
pursue
with
as
much
big
as
they
possibly
can
forcing
western
benchmen
to
divest
from
fossil
fuels
or,
as
I
said,
contact
one
of
the
other,
numerous
councils
or
organizations
start.
The
uk
who've
already
switched
to
a
divested
portfolio
and
asked
them
how
they
did
it
and
go
with
whoever
they
do.
Thank
you
very
much.
B
Great
excellent
phil
very
well
argued
there's
colleagues
there's
a
lot,
obviously
we'll
write
right
back
to
the
gentleman,
but
there's
a
lot
going
on
regarding,
where
you
put
venture
fund
disinvestment.
It's
interesting.
Our
pension
sector
is
one
of
the
most
forward,
looking
sexes,
of
of
the
private
sector,
foreign
expression,
and
it's
interesting
that
they're
very
much
wanting
to
go
down
this
route.
Now
counselor
andrew
scopes
is
asked
to
come
talk
to
us
regarding
the
workshops,
pension
fund.
B
What
I
propose
is
that
we
have
bring
this
as
an
item
to
the
next
available
juncture
for
ciac
to
discuss
is
incredibly
important
and
there
is
a
lot
going
on
in
the
country
and
in
the
wider
world
regarding
pension
disinvestment
from
carbon
assets.
So
are
people
all
right
with
that
yeah
seeing
nods
from
members?
Wonderful,
thank
you
so
much
and
counselors
before
we
go
to
wrap,
do
the
the
admin
and
wrap
up
the
end
counselor
chad
wants
to
just
come
in
for
a
sec.
I
Thank
you.
Chair
really
appreciate
that.
I
hope
you
can
hear
me.
I
forgot
to
declare
my
interest
as
a
taxi
driver
in
the
last
the
topic
on
the
clean
air
zone,
so
I
thought
I'll
just
put
that
on
record.
Thank
you
very
much.
Apologies.
B
Thanks
thanks
very
much
excellent
well
done
appreciate
that
so
been
a
really
great
session
today,
despite
some
internet
connectivity,
problems
reminded
me
of
march
and
april
of
this
year
with
internet
connectivity
issues.
So
in
terms
of
next
meetings
and
the
admin
side
of
things,
the
next
schedule
meeting
is
down
for
the
18th
of
january.
B
However,
what
I
propose
is
that
we
organize
well
harry
organizes
a
date
for
a
special
one-item
meeting
at
some
point
in
november
or
december,
because
we
have
to
go
over
our
what
would
have
been
under
normal
circumstances.
Our
annual
report
full
council
that
we
would
have
done
in
our
first
municipal
year
of
operations.
B
However,
this
being
2020
and
all
things
are
a
little
out
of
whack,
so
that
will
be
going
to
full
council
at
some
point
in
the
new
year
to
be
confirmed,
but
we
do
have
to
have
our
annual
report
written
and
squared
away
by
then.
So
we
will
contact
you
all
regarding
your
dates
and
things.
Governance
will
do.
Is
that
okay,
colleagues,
we
really
do
have
to
have
that
special
meeting,
and
is
I
mean
look
one
of
the
benefits
of
doing
these
things
remotely?
B
Is
it's
a
much
less
significant
logistical
effort
to
get
together
for
a
one
item?
Meeting?
Colleagues?
Okay
with
that
silence,
is
acquiescence
or
submission,
or
something
like
that
anyway.
Wonderful,
it's
really
appreciated.
Colleagues
and,
like
I
said
the
the
the
18th
of
january,
is
our
next
regular
meeting
we'll
bring
the
we'll
bring
the
western
pension
item
to
that
meeting
yeah.
So
we
can
keep
the
special
one
to
just
one
item.