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A
Good
afternoon
everyone
and
welcome
to
this
meeting
of
the
corporate
governance
and
Order
committee,
my
name
is
Council.
Paul,
Ray
and
I
will
be
chairing
today's
meeting.
The
meeting
is
being
live
streamed
to
the
council's
a
website,
so
that
public
for
the
public
should
I
say,
can
reserve
the
meeting
without
needing
to
be
present.
I'll
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves.
So
please
turn
off
your
microphone
once
you've
introduced
yourself
and
we
will
go
in
this
direction.
E
Hi
good
afternoon,
councilor
Gore
Almas
from
the
Beeston
Hall
big
Ward.
F
E
K
A
Thank
you
much
everyone.
So
moving
to
item
agenda
number
one.
G
Thank
you
chair
under
gender
item
one.
There
are
no
appeals
against
a
refusive
inspection
of
documents
under
a
gender
item.
Two
there
is
no
exempt
information
this
time
under
gender
item,
three
there's
no
late
items,
but
there
has
been
some
supplementary
information
in
relation
to
a
gender
item
10,
which
was
the
draft
statement
of
the
draft
statement
of
accounts.
I'll
get
it
right,
so
I
hope
that
everybody's
got
a
copy
of
that
and
I've
just
passed
out
some
paper
copies
for
those
who've
needed
them
agenda.
G
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
item
agenda.
Six
and
seven
minutes.
First
of
all,
other
can
I
ask
members.
Are
the
minutes
of
correct
record
of
the
meeting
on
held
on
the
24th
of
June?
D
Yeah
can
I
just
raise
one
item
on
page
13
chair
at
the
top
of
page
13
resolve
to
considering
note
the
governance
Arrangements
outlined
in
relation
to
the
best
city
ambition
immediately
above.
That
is
a
very
clearly
expressed
view
which
I
asked
the
committee
to
take,
which
I
think
constitutes
a
recommendation
and
I'm
not
sure.
Therefore,
the
the
resolution
really
conveys
our
discussions
so
could
I
suggest
that
perhaps
that
paragraph
is
made
a
recommendation
as
part
of
the
resolution.
A
We'll
get
that
redrafted
accordingly,
any
any
other
comments
on
those
minutes,
apart
from
the
in
terms
of
Corrections,
apart
from
what
council
trust
was
raised,
I'll
take
silence
as
a
no
no
okay,
that's
where
I
am
now
moving
on
to
any
matters
arising.
Please.
B
There
were
a
number
of
briefing
notes
that
have
been
circulated
to
the
committee
over
the
course
of
the
last
month
since
the
last
meeting,
so
one
in
relation
to
budget
action
plans
and
another
on
customer
satisfaction
questionnaires
circulated
in
relation
to
minute
number.
Eight.
B
A
note
on
the
use
of
Reaper
circulated
under
minute
nine,
a
note
on
the
liaison
with
Wicca
in
relation
to
the
best
city
ambition
circulated
under
minute
11
and
a
further
note
of
circulated
under
minute
13
in
relation
to
whistleblowing
practice
and
policy.
In
addition
to
that,
members
will
be
aware
that
the
annual
report
that
was
approved
by
committee
at
the
last
meeting
was
received
by
Council
on
the
20th
of
July.
A
Are
there
any
matters
arising
from
from
those
that
members
or
any
questions
like
that
members
want
to
ask
no
okay.
So
moving
on
to
item
number,
eight,
the
annual
Assurance
report
on
procurement
policy
and
procedure
and
I
believe
that
Kieran
is
presenting
this.
J
J
So
the
report
includes
information
in
relation
to
the
current
procurement
policies
and
processes
of
the
council,
and
it
also
follows
on
from
a
report
from
that
was
brought
to
this
Committee
in
November
last
year
and
provides
an
update
on
the
P2P,
so
the
procured
to
pay
action
plan
that
was
part
of
that
November
report
in
terms
of
reporting.
J
The
current
position,
the
detail
of
that
is
set
out
in
appendix
a
and
just
to
note
the
following
I
suppose
a
few
key
points
in
terms
of
procurement,
each
director
that's
accountable
for
the
procurements
that
they
need
in
order
to
secure
the
outcomes
that
they're
responsible
for
but
procurement
and
Commercial
Services
corporately
sets
procurement
policies
and
procedures
provides
support,
in
particular
with
regard
to
complex
procurement
activity
and
also
monitors
compliance
in
terms
of
spend
external
spending.
J
21
22,
that
was
957
million,
which
was
40
million
pounds
less
than
the
preceding
year,
which
I
think
was
probably
because
the
preceding
year
would
spend
would
have
been
inflated
in
relation
to
covid
related
spend
from
a
compliance
perspective,
which
is
something
that
the
committee's
been
particularly
interested
in
over
the
last
few
years.
J
The
council
I
think
continues
to
perform.
Well,
there's
no
procurement
challenges,
no
formal
procurement
challenges.
Last
year
on
contracts
spend
and
compliance
spend
was
at
98.5
of
overall
spend,
which
was
up
from
95.6
in
the
previous
year
and
and
I
think
is,
is
sort
of
very,
very
good
in
comparison
to
other
authorities
and
waivers
of
our
contract
procedure,
rules
we're
down
to
37
from
60
in
the
previous
year
and
that's
been
a
sort
of
a
an
ongoing
trend
for
the
past
few
years.
J
One
another
area
of
focus
that
the
committee's
been
particularly
keen
on
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
relates
to
social
value
from
well
additional
social
value.
That's
progured
from
the
council's
Contracting
Arrangements
I,
think
on
on
the
positive
side.
J
We
do
have
a
framework
in
place
now
that
formally
requires
Commissioners
to
consider
opportunities
for
social
value
in
all
the
council's
contracts,
and
and
through
that,
we're
we're
now
able
to
accurately
evaluate
and
and
monitor
social
value,
that's
been
committed
by
suppliers
and
that's
been
delivered
and
Independence
Day.
You
can
see
that
so
over
the
last
Financial
year,
there's
23
million
pounds
of
additional
social
buyers
been
committed
and
one
and
a
half
million
pounds.
It's
actually
been
recorded
as
having
been
delivered.
J
So
we
we
think
that
that's
some
good
progress
with
regard
to
embedding
consideration
of
social
value
into
procurement
activities,
but
we
are
conscious
of
feedback
that
the
processes
we
put
in
place
are
actually
quite
complicated,
that
there
is
a
cost
to
those
processes
to
suppliers
and
the
the
focus
on
those
sort
of
financial
social
proxies
that
make
up
those
numbers
distract
from
looking
at.
J
You
know
what
is
the
real
added
value
of
those
those
social
value
outcomes
for
leads,
so
we're
in
the
process
of
reviewing
our
approach
to
social
value
at
the
moment,
which
includes
collaborating
with
other
authorities
in
the
region
to
see
to
see
what
we
can
do
to
come
up
with
something,
that's
I
think
a
bit
more
fit
for
purpose
and
responds
to
those
challenges
that
have
been
identified.
J
Another
measure
of
social
value
that
we've
that
we've
reported
on
regularly
over
the
last
few
years
is,
with
regards
to
the
local
supplier,
spend
and
spend
with
smes
in
2122
that
equated
to
just
short
of
for
64
of
the
total
external
expenditure,
and,
while
that
benchmarks
well
I,
think
against
other
authorities.
J
It
is
marginally
down
from
the
preceding
years
so
something
for
us
to
focus
on
this
year
and
and
into
the
future
as
well
to
try
and
get
that
going
in
the
right
direction
again
in
terms
of
the
current
position.
Just
one
final
point
to
know
is
that
we
do
review
our
contract
procedure
rules
each
year,
we're
currently
in
the
process
of
that
and
hope
to
have
updated
contract
procedure
rules
in
place
in
the
next
couple
of
weeks.
J
Areas
that
we're
focusing
on
at
the
moment
are
strengthening
the
the
rules
in
relation
to
delivering
social
value
through
procurement
activity,
focusing
on
contract
management
during
the
procurement
processes
as
well,
making
sure
that
we're
on
top
of
that
and
I'll
come
on
to
that
in
a
second,
if
that's
okay
and
then
also
facilitating
a
more
flexible
and
responsive
approach
to
low
value
procurements,
where
there's
a
particular
urgency
or
or
where
the
spend
relates
to
Goods
that
are,
for
you
know,
immediate
resale
in
the
council's
commercial
concessions.
J
So
that's
the
current
position,
the
other.
The
other
aspect
of
the
report
is
in
appendix
B
and
that's
sort
of
the
looking
forward
as
to
how
we
our
Ambitions,
to
respond
to
to
delivering
the
council's
procurement
strategy
and
also
respond
to
recommendations
that
we
provided
from
a
local
government
Association
facilitated
peer
review
of
procurement
in
Leeds.
J
So
we've
got
this
action
plan
that
that's
set
out
in
appendix
B
as
I
mentioned
a
moment
ago.
One
area
I'd
like
to
focus
on
particularly
if
that's
okay
is
to
do
with
contract
management,
there's
an
enormous
amount
of
research
about
the
benefits
of
good
contract
management.
So
that
includes
delivering.
J
You
know
the
desired
outputs
from
from
the
contracts
facilitating
Innovation
and
best
practice,
facilitating
prompt
resolution
of
of
issues
or
disputes,
and
also
realizing
Financial
savings
and
avoiding
unnecessary
costs,
which
is
obviously
critical
in
the
car
in
the
council's
current
financial
position
and
there's
research
from
the
International
Association
for
contract
and
Commercial
managers.
That
shows
that
poor
contract
management
can
cost
as
much
as
nine
percent
per
year.
So
that's
things
that
we
we're
paying
for
that
we're
not
receiving
or
opportunities
that
that
are
missed.
J
J
So
we're
in
the
process
of
working
up
a
best
practice
approach
to
contract
management
across
the
council
and
we've
already
recently
just
launched
a
module
on
the
council's
e-procurement
site,
which
will
require
that
contract
management
and
how
the
contract
is
going
to
be
managed
to
be
considered
during
the
procurement
process,
so
that
appropriate
arrangements
are
in
place
by
the
time
it
comes
to
contract
award,
and
it
will
also
help
us
to
gather
some
high
level,
admittedly,
but
but
some
usable
management
information
with
regard
to
how
a
contract
is
being
managed
and
performance
under
that
contract.
J
We're
reviewing
an
auditing
commercial
capability
of
contract
managers
across
the
council
and
we've
recently
secured
training
for
19
members
of
Staff
who
were
involved
in
a
particularly
complex
contracts
at
the
moment
to
to
get
training.
That's
delivered
by
the
government,
Commercial
College
as
part
of
the
contract
management
Pioneer
program,
which
is
put
together
by
the
LGA
and
department
for
leveling
up
housing
and
communities
and
and
the
the
training's
free.
But
if
we
hadn't
secured
that
training
through
that
program,
it
would
have
cost
about
125
000
pounds.
J
So
it's
it's
a
pretty
detailed
in
terms
of
what
what's
delivered
so
that
that
was
it
in
terms
of
what
I
wanted
to
draw
your
attention
to,
but
happy
to
answer
any
questions
on
the
on
those
issues
or
any
other
aspects
of
the
report.
A
F
F
Probably
has
nothing
to
do
with
you,
but
I'll
ask
anyway,
a
lot
of
Education
contracts
that
we
had
in
in
previous
years
have
gone
through
this
very
curious
process.
In
fact,
nearly
all
of
them
didn't
call
Value
engineering.
F
So
what
has
been
delivered
is
not
necessarily
what
we've
asked
for
do.
Do
we
keep
a
record
of
which
companies
do
this?
The
most?
Do
we
review
their
contracts?
How
do
we
manage
value?
Engineering
would
be
that
question.
D
D
D
and
it's
3.12.3,
and
it
says
we
delivered
over
a
1.5
million
of
additional
social
value,
and
then
there
is
a
table
of
figures
now
I
suppose
I
should
have
been
listening
at
the
time
and
I
should
have
a
better
memory
for
these
things.
But
these
figures
actually
don't
mean
a
lot
to
me,
just
quoted
boldly
like
that
and
I
think
they
probably
mean
even
less
to
any
member
of
the
public
who
might
actually
be
reading
this
report.
D
My
fourth
question
is:
how
far
can
we
use
our
procurement
powers
to
advance
the
council's
zero
carbon
aims,
and
if
we
can,
is
that
included
in
social
value,
or
is
that
something
separate
I
know
that
further
on
in
the
report
we've
been
approached
by
some
providers
for
an
inflation
uplift
and
I'd
be
interested
in
as
to
how
we're
considering
those
to
ensure
that
any
decisions
are
made
in
an
equitable
and
fair,
reasonable
way
and
finally
chain.
This
is
probably
an
agenda
item
for
a
later
time.
A
K
J
Okay,
so
in
terms
of
the
the
education
contracts,
any
contracts
at
all,
so
in
terms
of
you
know,
value
engineering
I
mean
typically,
what
I
think
you're
getting
at
is
that
we
we're
unable
to
afford
exactly
what
it
is
that
we're
after
so
we're
sort
of
trying
to
get
what
we
can
afford.
If
you
see
what
I
mean
so
you're
kind
of
reducing
the
the
the
scope
or
the
scale
of
the
services
is
that
that
that's
typically
the
how
accompany.
F
Bids
they
get
the
contracts
and
all
of
a
sudden,
six
months
later
used
to
find
out
that,
instead
of
a
pitch
through,
if
you've
got
a
flat
roof
and
instead
of
three
classrooms,
they
can
only
afford
to
build
two.
They
can
only
put
two
toilets
in
there,
not
before
they
promise
what
they've
been
for
in
the
first
place,
I'm
just
wondering
what
the
process
is,
how
some
companies
better
than
others
as
well.
J
So
yeah
in
terms
of
any
process
like
that
that
that
should
be
happening,
hand
in
hand
with
the
council.
So
there
shouldn't
be
any
surprises
in
terms
of
somebody
coming
along
and
saying
we're
not
going
to
deliver
what
we've
committed
to
under.
F
Sorry
it
is
it
isn't.
We
know
that,
but
you
give
a
contract
out
to
somebody
and
they
are
bidding
for
the
work
that
you
give
them.
So
how
do
we
manage
when
they
come
back
to
us,
so
it
isn't
hand
in
hand
with
the
council
we're
not
saying
to
them.
Oh,
don't,
put
a
picture
roof
on
put
a
flat
roof
they're
saying
I
can't
afford
to
do
this.
I
can
only
afford
in
the
bid
to
do
something
completely
different
to
what
they
bid
for
in
the
first.
A
Place
I,
I
think
just
clarify
I
think
the
question
is
around:
do
we
have
assurance
that
the
the
contracts
that
we're
signing
are
actually
what
they're
going
to
do
and
then
they've
not
inflated
what
they're
going
to
deliver
to
get
the
contract?
So
is
there
a
sure,
what's
the
insurance
process
to
make
sure
that
actually
would
be
effectively
told
the
truth.
J
Yes,
though,
all
that
should
be
documented
in
in
the
contract
so
in
the
contract,
we'll
have
our
specification.
What
our
requirements
are
we'll
have
their
proposals
in
terms
of
how
they're
going
to
respond
to
deliver
those
requirements
and
if
they
want
to
deviate
in
any
way
from
that,
then
they'll
need
to
they're
saying
work,
hand
in
hand
with
us
to
agree
what
that
deviation
might
be.
If
that's
not
happening,
then
then
that's
a
problem.
They
shouldn't
be.
They
shouldn't
be
coming
back
to
us
and
just
don't.
F
Get
the
I'm
sorry
we're
Lost
in
Translation
here
I
know
all
that.
But
how
do
we
manage
that?
Are
we
happy
I
mean?
Are
you
happy
or
is
procurement
happy
when
they
come
back
and
they're
not
going
to
deliver
what
they
promised
and
what
we'd
asked
for,
or
what
what's
our
process
for
dealing
with
that
and
then
we're
going
to
work
hand
in
hand
with
them,
but
some
other
company
who
bid
could
have
actually
delivered
all
that.
H
You
want
to
yeah
and
I'll
bring
Kieran
back
in
after
we
do
monitor
the
contracts
so
and
they
will
have
to
put
a
change
request
in
if
they're
deviating
from
that
contract,
and
that
has
to
be
agreed,
and
then
they
pull
the
funding
down
the
money
down
that
we're
paying
them.
So,
therefore,
we
wouldn't
sign
it
off
if
they
hadn't
delivered
what
they
said,
they
were
going
to
do
so
they
wouldn't
get
paid.
H
A
I'm
going
to
ask
a
supplementary
question
my
own,
and
then
how
often
do
we
actually
penalize
our
contractors
for
that,
because
I
think
the
question
I
think
Council
Nelson
is
going
to
there's
one
thing
saying
we're
going
to
do
it
there's
another
thing
actually
doing
it
and
I
think
councilor
Dallas
is
wanting
to
get
to
the
Assurance.
Are
we
actually
enforcing
that
and
if
so,
how
often
am
I
right,
councilor,
Nelson,
yeah.
F
Might
be
pretty
old
information,
but
when
I
actually
believe
it
or
not,
one
time
was
in
charge
of
education
and
we
did
a
lot
of
of
bills
at
that
particular
time.
That
was
one
of
the
the
big
issues
no
school
we
built
at
the
time
actually
was
built
to
specification.
They
always
came
back
with
a
with
a
lower
spec
because
they
couldn't
afford
to
build
the
spec
we
had
could
have
completely
changed
now,
so
I
could
be
talking
really
old
history,
but
there's
got
to
be
occasions
where
companies
quite
rightly
say.
F
Well,
you
know
Steel's
gone
up
in
price.
This
has
gone
up
in
price.
We
can
do
it
for
this
price,
but
we'll
have
to
take
that
away
or
take
that
away
hand
in
hand
with
the
council.
Yes,
but
could
somebody
else
have
done
it
for
the
same
price?
I
just
asked
him
what
our
process
was
and
I
think
you've
answered
it.
To
be
honest
as
much
as
you
can.
Thank
you.
J
Yeah,
so
picking
up
sociology
in
terms
of
the
time
scales
for
the
review,
our
current
Arrangements
we've
got
an
external
provider
of
a
platform
that
we
use
for,
evaluating
and
monitoring
social
value.
That
contract
expires
the
end
of
March
next
year,
so
in
terms
of
any
alternative,
Arrangements
I'd
expect
that
we
would
need
to
have
them
in
place
by
then,
and
that's
certainly,
what
we're
working
towards.
J
As
I
say,
we
we
are
in
liaison
with
other
authorities
in
the
region
to
try
and
come
up
with
something
that
we
think
is
a
better
fit
for
for
public
sector
in
general
and
to
work
closely
with
them
to
have
a
more
uniform
approach
across
the
region
and
time
scales.
For
that
initial
piece
of
work
are
that
it
should
be
complete
by
the
end
of
October.
J
So
we
should
have
a
sense,
then,
whether
or
not
that's
a
viable
alternative,
so
that
that's
the
time
skills
in
terms
of
the
percentage
that
that
we
put
towards
social
value
in
in
terms
of
the
evaluation.
Yes,
that
is
definitely
something
that
is
going
to
be
considered
as
part
of
that
review,
and
we
talked
about
it.
J
The
other
day
with
when
we
had
when
we
met
with
colleagues
from
across
the
region
with
a
view
to
you
know
what
is
the
right
approach
and
also
trying
to
get
like
I,
say
as
as
closely
as
possible
a
uniform
approach
across
the
region.
From
from
us
all
the
table
at
3.12.3
of
appendix
a
I
think
this
kind
of
ties
to
the
the
some
of
the
feedback
that
we've
that
we've
received
and
I
was
mentioning
before
about
that.
J
That
sort
of
focus
on
on
the
monetary
amounts
you
kind
of
then
lose
the
focus
on.
What
are
the
actual
out
comes
that
have
been
delivered
through
through
this
social
value
and
in
in
terms
of
how
you
get
to
those
figures
they
are.
They
are
there's
a
a
lot
of
research.
That's
gone
into
developing
proxy
values
that
you
attach
to
things
like
job
creation,
and
you
know,
volunteering
hours
and,
and
things
like
that
and
cumulatively.
That
adds
up
to
to
to
that
figure.
J
But
as
I
say,
you
do
lose
sight
of
of
what
the
outcomes
actually
are,
that
that
have
been
delivered
so
and
I.
Think,
that's
probably,
as
well
as
being
able
to
sort
of
compare.
You
know
how
we're
performing
on
that
sort
of
totality
aggregated
scale
against
other
authorities.
I.
Think
probably
what
members
will
be
interested
in
is
you
know
how
many
jobs
are
being
created
and-
and
you
know
how
many
volunteering
hours
are
there
and
things
like
that.
J
So
that's
something
we're
trying
to
look
to
move
towards
as
well
and
then
in
terms
of
low
carbon
yeah,
absolutely
environmental
factors
and
sustainability
are
included
in
our
leads
Toms,
so
themes,
outcomes
and
measures
that
we're
looking
to
achieve
from
social
value.
One
of
the
big
areas
of
focus
is
is
about
sustain
sustainability
measures
and
environmental
measures,
and
that
can
all
be
bid
back
by
tenders
as
part
of
their
tender
submission
in
terms
of
inflation.
J
Uplift,
it
I
guess
it
really
depends
on
what
the
particular
contract
is
and
what
the
particular
sector
is
as
to
what
is
fair
and
reasonable,
in
particular
circumstances,
and
so,
without
going
into
sort
of
details
about
commercial
discussions
that
we
that
we've
had
with
it
is
I
suppose
our
first
position
is
to
to
to
challenge
whether
the
any
inflationary
uplift
that's
requested
is
a
is,
is
appropriate
at
all,
but
then
to
I
suppose
work
through
the
through
through
the
request
to
understand
you
know
what
is
the
actual
Financial
impact
on
a
particular
contract
and
it
I'm
sort
of
struggling
I've
got
a
a
sort
of
an
example.
J
That's
right
at
the
front
of
my
mind,
but
I
don't
want
to
sort
of
give
away
the
commercial
discussions
that
we've
had
in
a
in
an
open
Forum,
but
it
became
obvious
from
the
conversations
that
we
had
that
some
degree
of
inflation
would
have
been
priced
into
the
original
price
that
was
bid
by
the
particular
bid.
So
when
they
came
back
saying
we
wanted
20
uplift,
it
would
have
been.
J
You
know
inconceivable
that
actually
they
haven't
already
priced
in
a
degree
of
inflation.
For
their
particular
contracts
and
that
they
would
have
expected
prices
to
stay
absolutely
the
same
for
five
years,
so
we
we
do
go
away
and
we
do
Challenge
and
we
do
try
to
get
to
what
is
a
fair
and
reasonable
figure
in
each
instance
and
then.
Finally,
with
regard
to
the
the
procurement
Bill,
we
have
fed
back
in
2021
when
the
white
paper
was
it
was
published.
J
We
fed
back
as
part
of
the
consultation
and
in
terms
of
what's
in
in
the
procurement
Bill
I,
think
we're
broadly
comfortable
in
terms
of
being
able
to
comply
with.
What's
there
there's
not
a
massive
amount
that
will
have
changed
from
a
procurement
perspective,
there's
more
flexibility!
That's
that's!
That's
built
in
to
choose
your
own
procurement
processes
that
you
might
want
to
follow
as
long
as
they're
being
fair
and
transparent
and
and
all
those
kind
of
overarching
principles
there's
a
bit
more
in
it
in
terms
of
reporting
and
transparency.
J
That
will
be
an
extra
administrative
task
for
the
council
and
and
so
there's
a
bit
more
to
comply
with
there,
but
again
I
think
we
feel
that
we're
we've
got
that
in
hand
at
the
moment.
D
No
check
and
I
just
thank
the
officer
for
very
lucid
and
detail
responses,
and
really
in
one
sentence
just
highlight
the
fact
that
we
do
need
reassurance
that
any
inflation
uplifts
do
need
to
be
agreed
on
an
equitable
basis
that
reduces
the
council's
vulnerability
to
challenge
and
also
they
will
have
resource
implications.
Presumably
yeah.
A
And
I
think
that
connects
to
councilor
Dalton's
point
about
actually
the
deliverables
and
whether
or
not
we're
actually
assured
that
action
us
procurement
contracts,
whether
it's
structural,
otherwise
that
that's
been
built
into
the
process,
because
inflation
will
always
happen
and
I
think
I
think
there's
maybe
a
piece
around
Assurance
for
the
committee
that
actually
you
know
that
that's
actually
happening
when
those
contracts
discussions
happening.
Councilor,
Flynn,.
E
Thanks
Paul
I've
got
a
couple
as
well.
The
first
one
is
there's
only
one
key
risk
actually
identified
in
the
paper
and
and
that's
outlined
as
a
procurement
challenge,
which
is
I,
would
have
thought
part
of
the
course
really.
E
E
You
know,
if
we
don't
know
what
the
risks
are:
they're
not
being
outlined
to
us
as
a
committee.
How
can
we
actually
sort
of
address
them?
E
E
What
do
you
see
the
the
result
of
all
these
actually
coming
out,
as
in
the
sense
that
the
savings
that
were
projected
by
procurement
in
the
medium
term,
Financial
sort
of
strategy
were
extremely
small
in
relation
to
the
budget
and
I
know
it's
a
capital
Revenue
Bridges,
but
it
was
very
small
indeed
and
I.
Just
wonder.
E
You
know
where
the
sort
of
value
for
money,
saving
money
and
all
the
rest
of
it,
given
the
pressures
that
were
likely
to
face
over
the
next
12
months
for
the
cost
of
living
and
the
placing
Etc
where
that's
going
to
be,
and
the
last
one
social
value
again
that
Paul
mentioned
I'm
very
much
in
favor
of
the
element
of
local
procurement,
local
Employments
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
E
But
given
the
pressures
that
the
councils
are
going
to
face
once
the
first
half
of
this
year
over
when
contracts
have
been
reviewed
and
the
war
in
Ukraine
Etc,
et
cetera,
Etc
I,
wonder
how
that's
going
to
affect
value
for
money.
For,
for
this
particular
Council.
It's
all
very
well
us
assisting
local
local
businesses
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
E
But
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
public
money
and
I
just
want
to
be
reassured
that
you
know
that
we
are
getting
value
for
money
rather
than
going
purely
and
simply
for
social
social
values
for
the
sake
of
social
value.
Although
I
do
agree
with
the
principle
I.
J
J
I
suppose,
in
terms
of
this
report,
it's
looking
for
well
looking
to
give
Assurance
with
regard
to
the
overarching
policies
and
processes
that
that
the
council's
got
in
place
and
that
were
that
we're
undertaking
procurement
activity
properly
and
effectively.
So
so
that's
why
that
that
particular
risk
has
been
picked
out.
I!
Think
clearly,
you
know
we
talked
about
inflation.
J
We've
talked
about,
you
know
tenderers
coming
back
during
contract
term
or
or
contractors
coming
back
during
the
contract
term
and
looking
to
sort
of
rewind
from
the
positions
that
have
been
reached,
so
so
those
are
definitely
risk
for
with
regard
to
individual
contracts
and
individual
sort
of
procurement
activity,
typically
they'd
be
they'd,
be
covered
off
with
you
know,
in
terms
of
the
risk
register
for
a
particular
directorate
and
the
risks
that
they
carry
as
opposed
to
a
corporate
risk,
but
you're
absolutely
right.
You
know.
J
J
In
terms
of
those
reviews
that
you
talked
about
what
we've
tried
to
do
that?
There's
a
there's,
a
lot
that's
in
there,
and
so
we've
tried
to
bring
it
all
together
as
part
of
that
action
plan,
that's
in
appendix
B
and
trying
to
make
sense
of
the
different
pieces
of
work
that
we've
done
in
the
different
bits
of
research
that
we've
done
in
terms
of
what
we're
looking
to
to
get
out
of
it.
Obviously,
it's
improving
procurement
processes,
making
it
as
efficient
as
possible.
J
I
think
one
of
it's
it's
part
of
the
overarching
core
Core
Business
transformation
program.
So
what
are
the
things
that
we're
really
Keen
to
get
out
of?
It
is
systems
that
talk
to
each
other
that
integrate
and
so
you're
not
having
to
input
data
in
in
three
or
four
different
systems
so
that
they
can
pull
data
from
each
system
to
to
pre-populate,
so
that
should
save
officer,
time
and
resource
and
in
being
able
to
pull
that
data
from
from
other
systems.
J
J
One
of
the
things
that
that
is
is
a
bit
difficult
at
the
moment
is
there's
a
lot
of
data
cleansing
that
that
we
need
to
do
manually
to
understand
exactly
how
much
is
being
spent
on
different
contracts,
because
the
systems
that
we've
got
in
place
are
you
know
beyond
the
anticipated
time
frame
for
for
use,
and
you
know
we
often
don't
the
spend
that
is
inaccurately
recorded
against
different
contracts,
so
that,
like
I,
said,
there's
a
lot
of
of
data
that
needs
to
go
on,
and
then
what
we
had
until
say,
I,
think
it's
about
two
years
ago
is-
is
that
we
were
comparing
spend
to
the
anticipated
contract
values
at
the
outset
of
a
contract
which
clearly
is
is
wrong
because
you
know
the
contract's
five
years
old.
J
You've
got
a
different
budget
by
by
the
time
you
get
to
that
stage.
So
what
we
should
be
doing
is
comparing
actual
spend
to
to
budgeted
spent
for
a
particular
year,
but
we
just
didn't
have
that
that
data
collated
and
put
together
to
be
able
to
do
that.
J
So
as
part
of
the
overall
reviews
that
we're
looking
to
do
I
think
getting
those
systems
improved
will
will
help
massively
with
regard
to
all
sorts
of
things,
but
in
particular
making
sure
that
we
are
getting
value
for
money
from
our
contracts
and
achieving
savings
and
then
in
terms
of
local
procurement
and
and
vfm.
We
do
still
have
sort
of
processes
to
go
through
that
that
are
intended
to
to
make
sure
that
we're
testing
the
market
and
that
we're
getting
value
for
money.
J
So
we
still
still
do
need
to
go
out
to
Tender
for
three
contracts
up
to
25
000
pounds
for
for
sorry,
for
three
tenderers
up
to
25
000
for
four
Tender
Is
from
25
000
to
100
and
then
above
that
go
through
kind
of
a
an
open
process.
J
So
we
should
still
be
testing
the
market
and
social
value
is
just
one
part
of
that.
Typically,
we'd
have
a
60
40
split
between
the
quality
and
and
the
the
price
element
of
a
bid.
So
if
if
social
value
currently
is
only
10
of
that,
40
is
is
going
towards
price.
So
that
is,
you
know
clearly
an
important
factor
in
in
how
we
evaluate.
E
I
just
mentioned
I
know
we're
talking
about
2122
report
here,
but
in
terms
of
the
medium
term,
Financial
strategy
procurements
aren't
projecting
very
much
by
way
of
savings
at
the
moment
and
I'm,
hoping
that
the
the
various
reviews
that
I've
sort
of
mentioned
here
will
result
in
in
Savings
in
procurement.
I
understand
systems
need
to
be
updated,
I
all
of
them
I've
got
a
briefing
in
the
last
week
on
it.
E
So
I
know
how
ancient
they
actually
are,
but
that's
sort
of
the
bureaucratic
sort
of
side
of
it
in
terms
of
actually
saving
money.
I
just
wondered
what
what
was
in
what
was
in
place.
J
So,
with
with
the
procurement
savings
I,
suppose
it's
worth
picking
up
the
where
they
first
I
suppose
find
their
way
through
is
through
savings
that
are
put
forward
by
directorates
and
by
service
areas.
J
So
there
are
procurement
savings
across
the
council.
You
know
quite
quite
quite
large
savings
actually
and
in
terms
of
those
numbers
that
we
talked
about
in
2122,
they
were,
they
were
savings
targets
that
were
kind
of
added
on
to
the
end.
After
all,
the
directorates
and
all
the
service
areas
had
identified-
or
you
know
not
necessarily
quick
wins,
but
what
they
thought
was
achievable.
J
That
was
an
additional
Target
above
and
beyond,
but
the
savings
from
procurement
necessarily
are
factored
into
the
overarching
service
savings,
because
you
know
how
much
you
need
to
procure.
How
much
you
need
to
spend
externally
will
also
depend
on
how
you
actually
deliver
your
service.
What
what
standards
you've
got
for
for
a
particular
service?
What
level
of
resource
you've
got
to
be
able
to
deliver
the
service
in-house,
so
it
like
I,
said
necessarily
that
all
comes
as
part
of
the
package
when
it
comes
to
the
the
directorate
saving
proposals.
K
So
put
your
bank
on
my
apologies.
I'll
start
again,
this
is
my
first
meeting
and
unfortunately
a
short
one,
but
back
end
of
June
I
received
a
series
of
emails
from
residents
which
I've
tried
to
find
out
an
answer
for
and
I
think
this
might
be
an
appropriate
place
to
ask.
K
Others
may
have
had
this
and
may
even
know
the
answer,
but
it's
about
fair
tax
and
the
fair
tax
Foundation
revealed
that
between
2014
and
19,
a
huge
17
and
a
half
percent
of
public
procurement
contracts
were
won
by
businesses
with
con
connections
to
a
tax
Haven,
and
they
were
worth
combined
value,
37.5
billion,
and
there
isn't.
K
It
was
like
a
a
round
robin
email,
who's
saying
that
profit
profit
sharing
shifting
is
a
tax
avoidance
strategy
where
multinational
firms
exploit
gaps
and
mismatches
in
tax
rules
to
artificially
shift
income
from
and
profits
to
low
or
no
tax
locations,
and
to
help
tackle
this
test.
Dodging
I
want
my
Council
to
sign
up
to
councils
for
fair
tax
declarations.
Many
other
councils
already
have
so.
My
question
is:
is
this
something
that
has
been
addressed
in
this
council?
K
A
If
you
can
limit
that
to
the
insurance
scope
rather
than
the
slightly
political
scope,
that's
in
there
please!
Oh,
no!
No,
no
I
don't
mean
politics
with
a
big
PM
in
politics,
with
a
small
thing,
if
it's
just
around
the
Assurance
of
how
we
make
sure
that
obviously
the
people
we're
procuring
from
our
appropriate
and
following
the
proper,
etc,
etc.
If
you
don't
mind
because
I
think
that's
a
more
broader
point
that
probably
might
need
to
be
looked
at
somewhere
else,.
J
Yeah,
certainly
so,
we've
seen
there's
a
councils
for
fair
tax
declaration,
I
think
from
a
from
a
procurement
perspective
and
in
terms
of
the
council's
policies.
The
the
principles
that
are
outlined
in
there
are
absolutely
what
we
would
look
to
that
we'd
like
to
sort
of
comply
with
and
as
a
as
a
council.
J
We
do
vet
tenderers
and
we
do
do
Financial
reviews
of
the
tenders,
but
necessarily
it's
a
it's
a
desktop
exercise,
I
think
to
to
to
go
to
the
degree
of
actually
you
know
thoroughly
investigating.
You
know
these
kind
of
offshore
structures
that
are
you
know,
but
by
Nature
they're
designed
to
be
complex
to
to
unravel
and
and
their
opaque.
J
We
we
don't
have
the
resource
or
I
think
skills
in-house
to
be
able
to
to
go
to
that
that
degree,
but
certainly
we
do
what
we
can
in
terms
of
those
initial
Financial
reviews
and
understanding
corporate
structures.
K
That's
great
thanks
for
that.
Just
one
follow-up
question:
if
it
was
discovered
that
a
contract
had
been
awarded
to
somebody
that
was
moving
tax
or
moving
money
offshore,
would
we
then
a
remove
that
look
to
remove
them
from
our
supplier
preferred
contractors
list
and
B?
What
will
we
do
about
any
existing
contracts.
J
We
don't
we
don't
typically
have
many
sort
of
preferred
contractors
lists,
so
we
don't
have
any
sort
of.
We
don't
have
many
approved
lists
in
the
council.
We
do
have
various
framework
agreements
that
have
been
progured
that
we
can
call
off
from.
So
in
terms
of
our
approach
it
you
know
we
would
take
it
away
and
I
guess
it
depends
on
the
particular
circumstances,
but
we
would
look
to
review.
J
You
know
the
contract
terms
and
understand
what
what
what
what
rights
we
have
in
that
regard
and
also
under
the
procurement
regulations,
what
opportunities
there
are
under
those
to
to
to
to
to
to
make
sure
that
those
in
or
companies
are
excluded
from
procurement
opportunities
in
in
due
course
and
obviously
that
I
think
will
in
the
not
too
distance
you
should
depend
on
the
the
precise
wording
in
the
procurement
bill
and
when
that
becomes
enacted.
A
I
I
think
that's
one,
maybe
for
discussion
between
this
committee
and
maybe
scrutiny
as
to
where
actually
that
one
particularly
realize
because
it's
a
it's
an
interesting
one,
councilman
I
know
you
had
a
follow-up
question.
If
you
want
to
do
yours
and
I'll
bring
in
counselor
at
harrand,
if
that's
okay,.
E
Yeah,
it
was
more
a
comment
than
anything
else
on
your
final
Point
Kieran
about
I,
understand
the
difference
between
what
you're
actually
doing
and
the
procurement
that's
done
within
the
directorates,
but
the
the
business
as
usual
and
strategic
review
savings
that
were
demonstrated
last
year.
I
think
we
put
forward
for
the
next
sort
of
two
or
three
years
or
so
aren't
huge
again
in
comparison
with
the
overall
procurement
budget
for
the
council,
which
is
just
under
a
billion
pounds,
I
think
we're
talking
between
10
and
20
million
I.
E
Think
it's
just
a
comment.
That's
not
your
remit.
It's
something
we
can
look
at
in
excrucially,
I!
Think
thanks!
Paul
yeah.
E
Supplementary
to
Rick's
point:
if
we
applied
that
rule,
we
now
we
never
buy
anything
from
Microsoft
and
if
you
prepare
to
run
the
business,
how
do
you
define
a
local
business
and
somebody
tell
us
that?
Is
it
just
the
registered
office
and
in
a
responsible
question,
Council
trustworthy
said
if
inflation
needs
to
be
applied,
we
agree
a
fair
and
reasonable
settlement.
Well,
who
agrees
it?
Please.
J
So,
in
terms
of
the
first
question
about
local
businesses,
we
that's
defined
by
reference
to
where
we're
sort
of
dealing
with
them
from
so
it
in
terms
of
their
registered
office.
It
might
be
that
their
registered
office
is
London
or
somewhere
like
that,
but
if
we're
dealing
with
a
local
office
in
Leeds,
that's
that's
what
What's
classed
as
a
local
supplier
in
that
instance.
J
Sorry
what?
What
was
the
second
part
of
the
question.
E
I
mentioned
that,
and
just
because
it
has
restarted
me,
it
doesn't
mean
that
the
staff
and
the
the
wages
finish
up
in
Leeds
I
mean
a
registered
office,
will
do
City
councils
here
lots
of
this
the
size
finish
up
because
you
know
safe
to
outside
leads.
The
question
was
who
agrees
these
inflation
settlements,
who
said
with
fair
and
reasonable
Council
trucks
last
year?
How
it
worked
I
reckon
we'll
be
coming
back
to
this
many
times
this
next
couple
of
years,
who
agrees
it.
J
No
it'd
be
the
director
that
is
responsible
for
the
particular
contracts
so
that
they're,
responsible
and
accountable
for
their
spend.
Where.
E
J
We
certainly
can
report
it
going
forward,
I
think
in
terms
of
depending
on
what
the
particular
scale
of
the
changes
that's
being
made,
then
that
will
affect
the
particular
decision,
because
you've
got
to
go
through
the
proper
decision-making
process.
So
if
it
was
less
than
a
hundred
thousand
pounds,
it
would
be
an
administrative
decision
that
just
needs
to
be
recorded
if
it
was
above
that,
then
you'd
end
up
in
the
Strategic,
the
the
operational
decision
or
key
decision
territory,
which
would
then
have
to
be
published.
H
I
was
just
going
to
say
what
Sam
here
and
said
it's
within
director's
delegations,
but
then
there's
obviously
the
decision-making
framework
that
kieran's
just
covered.
Thank
you.
F
I
suppose
it's
a
it's
a
follow-up
to
a
certain
extent
and
possibly
you've
covered
it
before
we
get
com.
Well,
I
get
complaints,
all
the
time
about
contracts
being
given
to
companies
outside
the
area,
and
that
organization
will
then
subcontract
after
taking
a
management
fee
to
organizations
in
Leeds
because
they
know
Leeds
residents
and
they
know
what
happens
in
Leeds.
F
J
Yeah
I
suppose
that
the
first
thing
that
to
say
on
on
that
is
that
we
do
work
closely
with
voluntary
sector
and
businesses
in
Leeds
to
try
and
help
them
be
in
a
position
to
put
their
best
foot
forward
to
be
able
to
to
to
to
to
win
Council
tenders,
but
in
terms
of
using
local
suppliers,
local
Supply
chains,
local
employees.
Yes,
absolutely
that's!
That's
what
we'll
come
through
the
social
value
evaluation
section
as
well,
foreign.
H
Thank
you
chair
just
to,
hopefully,
a
couple
of
quick
queries
regarding
the
waiver
of
cprs,
just
as
a
new
member
to
the
committee
I'm
just
interested
to
know
what
some
of
the
main
reasons
are
for
those
waivers
and
I
notice,
there's
been
quite
a
good
reduction
in
them
in
the
last
year.
Is
there
specific
reasons
for
that?
Is
it
down
to
changing
process.
B
Or
more
training
both.
Thank
you.
J
So
the
in
terms
of
the
waivers
of
cprs-
they
should
be
really
very
few
and
far
between
it
should
only
be
in
sort
of
quite
exceptional
circumstances
that
that
you
need
to
wave
cprs
and
that
you
can't
follow
the
processes
that
are
already
there
and
that
have
already
got
a
lot
of
flexibility
built
into
them.
So
really
it
would
be
something
that
was,
you
know
quite
urgent
and
sort
of
very
last
minute
where
you
couldn't
follow
the
processes
through
and
that's
why
you
might
what's
why
you
might
need
a
waiver.
J
We
still
find
when
of
those
37
waivers
that
I
mentioned
earlier.
Actually,
when
you
go
through
and
interrogate
them,
the
vast
majority
of
them
didn't
need
to
be
waivers.
They
could
have
gone
through
the
the
processes
that
are
already
there
in
in
cprs
that
allow
flexibility,
and
over
the
last
few
years
we
have
brought
a
number
of
waivers
down
by
training
by
working
with
services
to
to
try
and
make
sure
that
they
do
understand
the
like,
say
the
flexibility
that's
already
built
in
that
that
they
can
operate
within.
J
But
this
work
that
we
can
still
do
to
bring
that
down
further.
Like
I
say
we
at
that
number
of
37.
When
you
look
at
the
detail,
there's
an
awful
lot
that
didn't
need
it
either
because
they're
below
thresholds,
so
you
can
do
direct
Awards
anyway
or
because
that
for
contracts,
where
there's
only
one
Supply
that
could
possibly
provided
in
any
in
any
event,
so
there's
more
work
that
we
can
do
to
bring
that
down.
Further.
A
Being
just
on
the,
there
was
a
second
question
there
about:
why
have
the
reduced
could
quite
noticeably
and
I'm
going
to
assume
the
word
is
pandemic,
but
in
terms
of
opposite
because
of
the
Year
we're
looking
at
we're
looking
at
a
year
that
was
merely
after
the
worst
part
of
the
pandemics
but
I'll,
let
you
clarify
yeah
I,.
J
Think
the
reason
why
they've
reduced
is
because,
because
of
the
training
that
we
have
done,
we
we
put
together
a
a
package
to
support
and
there's
a
an
online
training
system
that
can
be
followed
and
we've.
We
have
followed
up
with
individuals
and
individual
service
areas
that
are
previously
quite
prolific
with
waivers
and
explained.
You
know
like
I,
say
in
most
instances
they
don't
need
them,
because
the
cprs
are
flexible
enough.
A
Thank
you,
I
do
have
any
more
questions
or
comments,
I
think
the
only
thing
I'll
come
in
I
think
there's
been
a
theme
here
around
Assurance
around
I
think
we're
assessing
around
that
those
inflationary
pressures
and
how
contractors
are
via
our
procurement
processes,
saying
all
of
a
sudden
there's
a
cost
increase
and
I
think
you
obviously
highlighted
one
where
we
built
in
a
cost
increase,
and
then
they
try
to
ask
for
20
more
so
I
think
members
are
wanting
some
more
Assurance
around
how
that
process
works
and
that
we're
actually
confident
that,
when
we're
agreeing
these
contracts
across
the
council
that
actually
we're
building
in
what
will
always
be
inflationary
pressures
in
one
form
or
another
so
that
we
don't
get
caught
shot.
A
So
if
that's
a
piece
of
work
that
can
be
looked
at,
that
would
be
appreciated.
But
if
there's
no
other
questions
or
comments
remembers
beyond
that,
I
do
need
to
ask
about
the
recommendation.
A
Does
the
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
consider
and
note
the
Assurance
provided
in
this
report
from
the
review
assessment
and
ongoing
monitoring
carried
out
B
note
that
the
head
of
procurement
and
Commercial
Services
has
reached
the
opinion
that
procurement
policies
and
practices
are
up
to
date,
fit
for
purpose
and
effect
actively
communicated
and
see?
Now
that
the
ongoing
P2P
review
are
we
happy
to
accept
that
recommendation
I'll
take
silence
as
a
yes,
there
we
go
item
number
nine.
A
The
interim
annual
governance
statement
I'll
pass
over
to
you,
Katie.
B
Thank
you
chair.
This
is
the
report
bringing
the
interim
annual
governance
statement,
but
it's
a
little
bit
different
this
year.
From
what
you've
seen
previously.
Members
will
recall
that
in
March
of
this
year,
you
approved
the
local
code
of
corporate
governance,
as
a
committee
and
paragraph
4.2
of
that
code
requires
that
this
committee
has
oversighted
the
arrangement
and
receives
the
annual
reports
setting
out
the
framework
of
internal
control
and
mapping
Assurance
prior
to
the
approval
of
the
AGS
regulation.
B
Three
of
the
accounts
and
audit
regulations
requires
that
the
council
have
in
place
a
sound
system
of
internal
control,
which
facilitates
exercise
of
functions
and
achievement
of
aims
and
objectives,
ensures
effective
financial
and
operational
management
and
includes
effective
arrangements
for
the
management
of
risk
regulation.
Six
goes
on
to
require
that
we
do
an
annual
review
and
that,
as
a
result
of
that
annual
review,
we
prepare
the
annual
governance
statement.
B
So
this
report
brings
together
the
governance
framework
which
sets
out
what
we
think
we
do
the
Assurance
map,
which
sets
out
the
things
that
we
can
point
to
to
say.
Yes,
we
do
do
what
we
think
we
do
and
then
arising
out
of
that
the
annual
governance
statement
you'll,
see
from
the
framework
and
Assurance
map
that
we
work
along
three
lines
of
assurance.
So
we
have
the
operational
the
what's
happening
at
the
Cliff
face.
B
We
have
the
specialist
Assurance,
which
is
those
of
us
like
myself,
on
decision
making
Aaron
on
Information
Management
Tim
comes
with
his
wrist
hat
on
and
brings
that
specialist
assurances
to
what's
in
place
and
then,
on
top
of
that
we
have
independent
Assurance
coming
for
from
colleagues
in
internal
audit
and
externally
to
the
council
from
Grant
Thornton,
as
our
external
Auditors
from
ofsted
in
terms
of
children's
governance
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
this
brings
together
the
AGS.
B
The
AGS
is
to
be
published
in
interim
form,
alongside
the
draft
statement
of
accounts
for
a
period
of
public
deposit
when
we've
received.
If
we
receive
comments
back
from
the
public,
we
will
update
it
and
bring
it
back
to
members
for
approval.
So
it's
here
at
this
time
for
information,
you
may
have
questions.
A
Does
anyone
have
any
questions,
counselor,
triswell
and
then
Council
Illinois.
B
A
And
I
think
just
for
reassurance
as
well
when
the
chairs
of
the
relevant
committees
across
the
auction
Humber
met,
there
was
a
similar
Conversation,
Over,
accessibility
in
language
and
and
actually
how
you
make
some
of
this
fathomable
in
a
way.
A
That's
successful,
so
I
think
it's
a
general
piece,
actually
that's
happening
across
the
region,
and
it
was
one
of
the
things
we
discussed
as
chairs
the
Committees
about
how
we
look
at
on
a
regional
basis
as
well
to
make
sure
there's
a
degree
of
consistency
in
language
but
accessible
language
across
the
region,
because
I
think
it's
a
fair
point.
Council
illingworth.
C
Looking
at
page
43,
share
middle
column,
sorry
second
column,
second
column
and
almost
on
a
bit
of
the
page,
and
it
talks
about
customer
contact,
positive
procedures,
communication
systems,
focus
on
a
customer-centric
approach
and
I
was
going
to
challenge
the
customer-centric
bit
and
I
think
in
particular.
First
of
all,
this
is
not
Alicia
council's
specific
problem.
C
It's
a
problem
for
all
large
corporate
organizations-
HSBC,
for
example,
every
bit
as
bad
as
the
council,
and
it's
it's
a
failing
generally,
but
if
you've
found
them
up,
I
can
tell
you
what
the
the
Spiel
says
we
are
currently
experiencing.
High
call
volumes
and
there
may
be
a
delay
before
your
call
can
be
answered.
C
Please
stay
on
the
line
and
we
will
do
our
best
to
assist
you
or
some
paraphrase
of
that,
and
you
can
be
stuck
there
for
an
hour
and
a
half
on
the
back
of
that
message
told
to
hang
on,
but
no
hope
at
all
of
getting
an
answer
from
the
system
and
as
I
say
a
lot
I
guess
that
telephone
answering
is
expensive,
but
it's
the
there's
two
elements
to
it.
First
of
all,
it
doesn't
work
and,
secondly,
the
misleading
of
the
customer
to
think
in
this.
Some.
C
If
it
said,
we've
got
a
monstrous
cue
and
nobody's
answering
questions
it
wouldn't
matter,
oh
well,
it
would
matter
a
lot
less
because
at
least
people
could
go
away
and
do
it
some
other
time,
but
it's
when
you're
encouraged
to
stay
and
there
is
really
no
hope
of
a
response
and
I
bet,
but
I
know
the
council.
Does
this
I've
had
two
complaints
already
today
about
this
practice,
and
so
that's
my
challenge.
B
It
might
feel
like
a
side
step
counselor.
The
the
purpose
of
this
report
is
to
set
out
what
we
think
we
do
yeah
and
then
to
put
alongside
that,
what
we
can
point
to
to
say
that
we
do
it
in
in
the
what
we
can
point
to
what
I've
pointed
to
is
the
report
that
came
to
this
Committee
in
March,
where
these
questions
were
asked.
B
So
there
is
that
balance
in
there
of
what
we
strive
towards
what
would
what
it
was
accepted,
I
think
by
officers
at
the
committee
at
the
time
we
are
still
very
much
working
towards
and
you'll
recall
that
there
was
then
a
correspondence
between
the
chair
of
this
committee
and
the
chair
of
scrutiny,
who
are
looking
further
at
that.
A
I
I
can
assure
you
that
scrutiny
is
looking
at
this
because
I've
been
invited
to
go
to
the
next
scrutiny
meeting
to
be
there
while
I
was
starting
to
have
this
conversation.
So
there
is,
there
is
a
focus
on
the
contacts
that
were
in
the
procedures
and
the
practice
of
the
contact
center,
but
that's
felt
being
dealt
with
at
the
scrutiny
side
rather
than
the
corporate
governance
side.
But
I
think
it's
a
point.
Well
noted
John,
any
other
questions
or
comments.
Councilor
Flynn.
E
I
know
this
is
a
general
paper,
so
I
wouldn't
expect
to
see
risks
in
there,
but
what
I
would
like
to
see
is
when
papers
come
to
us
in
future,
whatever
those
risks
are
actually
outlined,
not
outlined
detailed
in
need
to,
and
these
are
all
the
same
template
for
every
one
of
these
agenda
items
for
all
of
the
meetings
that
I
go
to,
and
the
question
is
what
are
the
key
risks
and
we're
not
seeing
them
whatever
they
are,
and
the
second
one
again
I
think
is
perhaps
for
a
future
meeting.
E
I
spoke
at
Council
last
week
about
the
whistleblowing
policy.
There's
a
I
I
think
you
put
in
the
report
Kate
that
with
the
First
Council,
that's
established
a
freedom
to
speak
up
guardian
and
I,
think
that
came
from
the
NHS
or
will
have
company
NHS,
and
while
the
NHS
is
an
absolutely
marvelous
organization,
absolutely
no
Chris
is
of
it
whatsoever.
Even
their
best
friend
would
not
claim
that
their
whistleblowing
policies
or
people
who
do
speak
up
I've
always
met
with
welcoming
arms.
E
B
In
terms
of
the
freedom
to
speak
up,
it's
colleagues
in
in
HR
who
are
very
much
in
in
the
lead
on
that,
and
they
do
come
annually
to
this
committee,
so
they'll,
be
here.
I
think
it's
the
February
meeting
that
they're
due
with
the
Employment
Practices
report-
and
this
would
very
much
I-
would
anticipate
be
something
that
they
would
deal
with
in
that
report.
Whether
Louise
has
got
anything
further.
G
Thank
you,
counselor.
What
I
did
say
last
time
we
met
was
the
vision
speaker.
Guardian
is
actually
based
on
the
NHS
model,
but
we've
created
a
hybrid
Arrangement
here
in
Leeds.
So
whilst
they
are
doing
law,
the
Pastoral
side
of
the
freedom
speaker,
Guardian,
the
whistleblowing
responsibilities,
Still
Remains
with
myself,
so
it
is,
it
is
a
version
of
the
NHS.
We
are
the
First
Council
to
do
it.
But,
however,
we
are
doing
it
a
different
way.
G
So
you
will
get
Assurance
around
the
whistleblown
arrangements
through
myself,
but
the
freedom
to
speak
up
Guardian
elements
through
HR.
A
Any
other
questions
or
comments
from
colleagues,
oh
I'm
Blair.
There
we
go.
No.
If
that's
the
case,
then
we'll
go
on
to
the
recommendation
when
I
find
it
does.
The
committee
agree
the
recommendation
set
out
in
the
report
to
consider
a
no
contents
of
the
copper
governance
framework
and
insurance
map
and
the
interim
annual
governance
statement.
I'll
take
silence
as
a
yes,
okay.
Moving
on
to
item
number
eight,
the
draft
statement
of
accounts
over
to
you
Mary.
I
Thank
you
chair,
so
the
report
presents
the
draft
statements
of
accounts
for
20
21
22.,
just
start
with
an
apology
that
the
draft
accounts
weren't
completed
in
time
to
go
out
at
the
same
time
as
the
gender
papers,
so
I
appreciate
members
wouldn't
have
had
very
long
to
look
at
them.
I'll
just
first
start
with
going
through
the
responsibilities
and
time
scales
for
the
statement
of
accounts
process
for
the
benefits
of
those
members
who
are
new
to
the
committee
this
year.
I
So
the
draft
statements
of
accounts
are
approved
by
the
section
151
officer.
There's
no
requirements
at
this
stage
in
the
process
for
elected
members
to
approve
the
accounts,
the
statutory
deadline
we
had
this
year
for
that
approval
was
31st
of
July.
So
we
have
achieved
that
the
public
inspection
period
will
start
on
Monday
Monday,
the
1st
of
August.
It
runs
for
30
working
days
during
that
period.
Members
of
the
public
can
ask
the
council
questions
about
figures
that
appear
in
the
statement
of
accounts.
I
I
The
external
audits
carried
out
by
Grant
Thorntons
and
we're
expecting
that
to
start
in
late
September
this
year,
and
once
that
is
completed,
the
final
audited
accounts
together
with
Grant
Thornton's
audit
reports
on
them
will
be
brought
back
to
this
committee,
and
it's
at
that
stage
that
the
committee
will
be
asked
to
approve
those
final
auditing
accounts.
On
behalf
of
the
council
appreciate
the
accounts
are
very
large
and
complicated
documents.
So
what
we'll
do
is
we
have
done
in
previous
years?
I
Is
we'll
have
some
informal
briefing
sessions
for
members
before
the
final
accounts
are
brought
back
so
that
members
can
ask
more
detailed
questions
about
the
figures
that
are
within
those
accounts?
At
the
moment,
the
final
accounts
are
timetable
to
come
in
February,
so
I
would
propose
to
hold
those
briefing
sessions
in
early
January,
but
if
members
would
prefer
to
have
them
earlier,
then
please
do.
Let
us
know.
I
Turning
to
the
actual
statement
of
accounts
themselves,
then
so
there
are
quite
a
few
significant
differences
year
on
year
in
the
figures
and
that's
very
much
a
reflection
of
the
the
unusual
2021
figures,
and
that
was
when
the
the
Main
Financial
impact
of
kovid
Hit,
the
council's
accounts.
So
we've
actually
seen
an
increase
in
the
net
worth
of
the
council
year
on
year
of
971
million
pounds.
I
I
Members
have
been
on
the
committee
for
some
time
will
be
aware
that
that
pension's
liability
is
quite
a
volatile
figure,
because
Accounting
Standards
require
it
to
be
measured
based
on
market
conditions,
as
that
31st
of
March
each
year,
there's
quite
a
scope
for
it
to
change
year
on
year,
and
we
saw
a
big
increase
in
the
pensions
liability
last
year
and
that
has
partly
been
reversed.
I
In
terms
of
a
big
decrease
this
year
that
increase
and
decrease
the
main,
the
main
factors
in
that
are
the
discount
rate
and
the
inflation
rate,
and
it's
it's
the
kind
of
relative
interplay
between
those
two
assumptions
that
affects
the
the
gross
pensions
liabilities.
I
I
should
say
that
that
inflation
assumption
it's
a
long-term
assumption
over
a
23-year
period,
so
although
it
has
increased
slightly,
it's
not
affected
in
the
same
ways
as
the
sort
of
the
the
very
high
annual
inflation
figures
we're
seeing
at
the
moment.
So
you
won't
see
an
inflation
assumption
along
those
lines.
In
the
accounts,
it's
important
to
stress
that
the
pensions
liability,
as
it
appears
in
the
account,
is
very
much
an
accounting
assessment.
I
I
I
I
should
also
add
that,
within
that
net
pensions
figure,
the
earnings
on
the
pension
fund
assets
during
the
year
were
higher
than
would
have
been
expected,
so
that
that
is
a
good
point
to
note.
I
Looking
at
other
figures
on
the
balance
sheet,
the
carrying
value
of
our
London
property
assets
has
increased
by
377
million
and
that's
after
disposals
of
64
million
and
we've
seen
a
sort
of
General
increase
across
the
board
in
the
current
value
of
assets,
but
particularly
in
the
housing
stock,
reflecting
the
sort
of
improvements
in
the
housing
markets
over
the
year
usable
reserves
on
the
balance
sheets
have
increased
by
28.6
million.
I
The
biggest
impact
on
that
is
is
the
capital
Capital
usable
reserves,
particularly
Capital
grants
where
we
receive
the
grants
in
advance
of
the
spend
actually
happening.
Usable
Revenue
reserves
did
decrease
by
8.2
million
pounds,
but
within
that
the
the
extent
to
which
we
had
one-off
coverage
related
grants
in
advance
that
were
being
carried
forward
in
reserves.
I
Just
turning
to
the
income
and
expenditure
account
on
the
face
of
that
statement,
you
can
see
the
sort
of
year-on-year
changes
in
that,
particularly
in
terms
of
income,
so
gross
income
for
the
21
22
year
has
recovered
quite
a
bit
in
comparison
to
gross
income
the
previous
year,
when,
obviously,
we
were
affected
by
covered
lockdowns
and
services
not
able
to
earn
income
for
various
periods
of
the
year,
there's
been
a
corresponding
decrease
in
the
government
grants
received.
I
Obviously,
again
in
the
previous
Financial
year,
we
were
receiving
quite
a
lot
of
significant
covered
related
government
grants
to
support
us,
and
you
also
see
that
the
income
recognized
from
non-domestic
rates
has
increased
you
yeah
and
yeah,
although
that's
not
back
to
normal
levels.
Yet
it
is
still
below
the
sort
of
levels
we
would
have
seen
pre-covered,
and
that
is
because
there
was
still
some
quite
covered,
specific
reliefs
being
granted
to
businesses
during
the
21-22
year
as
well.
I
There's
a
similar
pattern
to
that
visible
on
the
face
of
the
cash
flow
statement.
So
again,
an
increasing
cash
flows
coming
in
from
charges
for
goods
and
services,
a
reduction
in
government
grant
cash
flow.
Coming
in
and
an
increase
in
business
rates,
income
cash
flows
coming
in
just
briefly
on
the
collection
fund
itself.
Obviously,
we
ended
2021
with
a
significant
deficit
on
the
collection
fund.
That
position
has
improved
quite
significantly
during
the
year
as
deficit
contributions
were
made.
There
is
still
a
sizable
deficit
on
business
rates.
I
That's
partly
due
to,
as
I
mentioned,
the
additional
reliefs
that
were
given
to
businesses
during
that
year,
for
which
we
receive
grants,
income
to
compensate
us,
but
there's
also
an
element
to
which
the
government
introduced
regulations
that
the
2021
element
of
the
deficit
that
wasn't
being
funded
by
grants
could
be
then
spread
over
a
three-year
period.
So
within
that
deficit
for
business
rates,
there's
actually
27
million,
that
is
to
be
recovered
in
22
23
and
23
24
under
those
regulations.
I
That
was
all
I
wanted
to
highlight
in
terms
of
the
2122
accounts.
Just
briefly
referring
to
the
2021
accounts,
which,
as
you'll,
be
aware,
asked
the
audit
process
for
that
is
still
to
be
concluded.
So
those
accounts
will
be
brought
back
to
the
committee
to
this
committee
to
approve
so
we're
aware
that
there
will
be
members
on
this
committee
who
have
not
seen
those
2021
accounts.
I
Yet
we
will
have
again
a
briefing
session
before
those
accounts
are
brought
back
for
the
final
approval,
particularly
for
the
benefit
of
members
who
haven't
seen
the
2021
accounts,
yet
so
we'll
go
through
in
more
detail
the
sort
of
financial
features
of
those
accounts
as
you'll
be
aware
from
briefly
notes,
we
circulated
before
the
last
meeting,
in
addition
to
small
amount
of
lead,
specific
issues
that
need
to
be
finished
on
the
audit.
There
is
a
national
issue
in
relation
to
infrastructure
assets.
I
I
So
I
think
we
may
well
that
the
result
of
that
may
well
be
that
there
may
be
further
delay
in
resolving
other
National
level.
These
these
infrastructure
accounting
issues,
I,
say
we
only
got
that
update
yesterday.
I'm,
not
sure
whether
or
not
perminda
may
have
anything
to
add
from
the
point
of
view
of
the
audit
firms
as
to
whether
there
could
be
a
further
delay
in
2021.
As
a
result
of
this
review,.
E
Thanks
Mary
just
on
the
infrastructure
asset
issue,
this
is
a
national
issue.
You'll
recall
from
the
last
meeting
there
hasn't
been
a
Way
Forward
agreed
on
this
at
the
moment,
super
hasn't
sort
of
concluded,
something
that
works
for
everybody
in
the
consultation,
as
Mary's
just
alluded
to
doesn't
seem
to
have
come
to
a
Way
Forward
on
it.
They
are,
we
understand,
looking
at
the
statutory
override,
which
would
sort
of
put
that
issue
on
one
side
and
allow
Auditors
to
issue
an
opinion
on
the
accounts.
E
At
the
moment,
all
the
firms
are
talking
together
in
terms
of
how
this
may
be
taken
forward.
If
sit
for,
isn't
able
to
come
to
a
view
on
this.
Once
we
have
further
information
on
this,
we
will
sort
of
obviously
share
that
with
Victoria
Mary
and
the
finance
team,
and
obviously
the
audit
committee
too.
G
Thank
you
chair,
thank
you
for
your
report
back
because
you've
answered
a
lot
of
the
questions
and
hence
saved
everybody's
time,
but
I
am
extremely
I'm.
I
mean
I've
not
been
involved.
That
long,
but
I
am
extremely
concerned
about
the
time
scales
involved
here,
with
the
audit
completion
of
the
accounts
and
the
approval
by
scrutiny
and
bios,
because
it
puts
rice
up
against
the
budget
setting
period
for
the
following
year,
and
this
year
in
particular.
G
For
instance,
the
plan
on
the
central
government
financial
settlement
won't
be
issued
until
December
22
for
23
24
Financial
year,
so
that's
obviously
going
to
be
a
large
number
and
fairly
critical
to
what
What's
go,
what
the
situation
is
going
forward.
But
in
addition,
we've
got
the
completion
of
the
Actuarial
evaluation
X
estimated
to
be
completed
in
December
22
as
well,
and
if
there
is
anything
to
crawl
out
of
the
woodwork,
then
potentially
those
two
things
could
be
some
very
large
numbers.
In
my
humble
opinion.
H
Thank
you
chair.
The
budget
is
actually
it
goes
through
executive
board
and
then
they
recommend
the
budget's
full
Council
that
doesn't
actually
come
through
this
corporate
governance
and
audit
committee.
H
What
happens
is
that
each
month
really
from
September,
when
we
take
the
medium
term
Financial
strategy,
we
report
to
executive
board
and
then
it
goes
through
the
scrutiny
committees
who
then
scrutinize
the
decisions
of
exec
board,
and
we
then
do
public
consultation
on
the
budget
during
December
when
it
goes
back
to
Executive
Board
in
February,
who
then
recommend
their
budget
for
full
Council
and
all
councils
vote
on
that
budget.
H
What
we
then
do,
as
part
of
that
is
we
get
communication
from
the
pension
fund
on
the
outcome
of
the
valuation
and
what
that
implications
are
for
the
council's
contribution
rates.
H
We
do
ask
for
that
information
earlier,
but
the
actuaries
do
take
a
certain
amount
of
time
on
having
to
do
all
the
Actuarial
work
around
the
evaluation
of
the
fund
and
what
that
means
for
our
assets
and
our
liabilities.
So
it
takes
a
long
time
and
that's
why
we
tend
to
not
get
it
till
around
about
December
and
but
we
have
built
in
an
assumption,
because
Mary
and
myself
received
reports
on
where
we
think
the
pension
is
going
to
be.
H
H
That's
once
we've
set
the
budget,
then
obviously
we
start
to
spend
that
budget
and
generate
the
income
through
the
year
and
the
outcome
is
that
we
report
that,
through
to
executive
board
and
then
at
the
end
of
the
year,
Mary
and
a
team
work
extremely
hard
to
pull
it
all
together
into
a
set
of
financial
accounts,
which
is
what
you've
got
here
now
the
progress
once
mayor's
team
have
produced
the
accounts,
then
we
bring
them
here
to
go
through
them
with
yourselves
now
I
think
it
would
be
a
good
idea
to
have
some
briefings
and
not
perhaps
just
have
one,
because
it's
it's
118
Pages.
H
It's
quite
complex
to
actually
produce
a
set
of
accounts,
as
you
know,
but
accountants
are
training
for
three
years
and
you're
you're
trying
to
scrutinize
them.
You
know
with
a
day
to
days
and
a
half
training,
so
I
think
it
would
be
good
if
we
did
different
sections
and
went
through
it
in
some
detail
for
you,
but
I
would
also.
H
Then
you
can
ask
some
of
the
questions
around
that
and
we
can
do
that
throughout
the
year.
I
would
also
say
that
external
audit
Grant
thorns
and
bring
progress
reports
to
each
of
the
Committees
and
they
then
will
say
how
they're
doing
with
their
audit
what
the
findings
are,
and
they
do
that
at
each
committee
through
the
audit.
So
it's
not
just
a
surprise
at
the
end,
and
so
you
can
have
that
information
as
well.
Okay,
okay,
thank.
G
Thank
you.
That's
that's
pretty
reassuring
because
as
I
say,
it
won't
be
the
first
time
it's
happened,
but
we
have
been
rightly
or
wrongly,
props
up
a
bit
by
central
government
grants
because
of
of
covid
related
issues
and
the
difficulties
with
expenditure,
and
as
yet
we
don't
know
whether
there's
going
that's
this
there's
going
to
be
any
continuation
of
that.
But
things
seem
to
be
drawn
to
a
close
on
on
it.
G
So
there
will
be
a
lot
of
one-offs
on
top
of
the
uncertainties
that
we've
already
got
so
the
sooner
we
can
know
about
it.
As
you
say,
a
regular
briefing
will
be
great
so
that
we
don't
get
a
shock
at
the
end
and
when
we're
in
a
position
to
be
able
to
assess
what
the
knock-on
effect
is.
Thank
you.
A
Yeah
and
I
think
I
think
Victoria's
cleared
up
the
difference
between
actually
the
budget
same
process
and
the
auditing
of
the
accounts.
I
think
we
need
to
be
aware
of
that
when
we're
in
this
committee
we're
not
talking
about
the
budget
per
se,
we're
talking
about
the
auditing
accounts,
Council
Nelson.
F
Just
caught
that
last
statement,
I
suspect
the
government
grants
we've
been
given,
don't
match
anywhere
near
the
money
we've
had
taken
offers,
but
that
wasn't
the
point.
It's
it's
actually
a
point
of
of
just
clarification
when
you
started
talking
about
pensions,
because
some
of
us
around
here
counselors
are
still
lucky
enough
to
be
sitting
on
a
legacy
pension
we're
not
decision
making,
so
we
don't
have
to
declare
an
interest
or
take
it.
A
Any
other
questions
or
comments
on
that
going
once
going
twice.
Oh
that's
been
a
quick
agenda
by
the
sounds
of
it.
So
going
on
to
the
recommendation,
does
the
committee
agree?
The
recommendation
is
set
out
in
the
report
to
know
the
unaudited
statement
of
accounts
for
the
2021-2022,
which
is
to
be
certified
by
the
chief
finance
officer.
I'll,
take
silencer's
acceptance.
A
Any
comments
on
The
Works
program,
one
final
thing
for
me:
some
members
have
said
they
find
Friday
afternoon
inconvenient
and
there's
been
a
suggestion
to
move
future
meetings
to
the
beginning
of
the
week
on
a
Monday
and
I'm.
Just
mine
did
to
ask
members
that,
if
they're
happy
without
moving
to
a
Monday
slot
on
the
morning,
rather
than
the
last
slot
on
a
Friday,
any
objections
to
that
to
a
Kate
for
members
needs
councilor.
Flynn.
E
Definitely
not
objection
there,
because
I
would
I
would
welcome
the
the
the
amazing
being
brought
take
it
away,
but
be
careful
on
Mondays,
because
the
shadow
Celtic
meetings,
this
Monday's
just
gone
and
various
other
things
going
on.
So
you
need
to
have
a
good
look
at
the
the
corporate
sort
of
diary
before
you
do
it.
Okay,.