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A
Good
morning,
everyone
and
welcome
to
this
meeting
of
the
licensing
committee.
My
name
is
council
paul
ray
and
I
will
be
chairing
today's
meeting
because
a
reminder,
everyone
at
the
meeting
today
is
being
live
streamed
onto
the
city
council
website,
so
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
the
needs
to
be
present
just
for
those
members
of
the
public
watching
on
the
live
cast.
A
We
do
have
some
camera
issues
in
here,
so
we
won't
actually
focus
on
anyone's
faces
I'll,
let
you
judge
in
the
public
whether
that's
a
good
or
a
bad
thing,
and
just
to
the
people
in
the
room
today
who
are
here
who
are
not
counsellors
or
officers.
This
is
a
council
meeting
in
public.
It
isn't
a
public
meeting.
So
please
just
be
aware:
this
is
a
meeting
for
councillors
and
officers.
Only
could
I
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves
and
mute
themselves
once
they
have
so
I'll
start
from
this
side.
Rob.
G
Morning,
everybody
andrew
white,
taxing
private,
hire
licensing
manager.
E
Councillor
hutchinson
molly
northward
councillor,
neil
buckley
or
woodley
ward
councillor,
linda
richards,
weatherby
ward,.
A
Thank
you.
Everyone
for
your
attendance
moving
to
item
agenda
number
one.
E
Thank
you,
chair
under
agenda
item
one.
There
were
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
two.
There
were
no
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press,
our
public
under
item
three
layer
items,
although
we've
got
no
late
items
as
such.
I
understand
members
have
received
information
from
the
hackney
carriage
association
and
joint
trades
council
who
have
offered
comment
on
the
taxi
and
private
harmonization
proposals
and
that's
agenda.
Item
number.
Nine
of
your
pack
agenda.
Item.
Number
four:
could
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
interests?
E
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
item.
Agenda
number
six
minutes
of
the
previous
meeting.
Do
members
accept
these
minutes
as
a
true
and
correct
record
I'll
assume
correct
unless
indicated
otherwise,
yeah?
Okay,
we'll
assume
that's
correct.
Thank
you.
Item
number
six
matters
arising
from
the
minutes.
Are
there
any
matters
arising
from
the
minutes?
Again,
please
indicate
no
nice
and
quick.
We
like
that
great
item
agenda
number
eight
inflammative
impact
assessment.
Could
I
ask
from
timor,
license
to
present
this
report?
Please.
F
F
But
I'll
do
that
under
questions.
If
that's
okay.
A
A
H
E
Yes,
thank
you
chair.
I
I
agree
with
councillor
flynn.
The
question
I
wanted
to
ask
was
just
looking
at
the
various
tables
of
of
crime
and
incidents
and
so
on.
It
seems
to
refer
to
2017
and
I
just
wondered
why
the
figures
were
so
far
back
because
obviously
we
didn't
have
a
problem
until
2020.
F
The
document
you've
got
there
is
the
current
2018
community
impact
assessment
that
we
did
using
three
years
ago.
We
haven't
undertaken
the
interim
review
yet
so
it
was
there
really
just
for
information
so
that
to
remind
members
of
special
members
that
might
be
on
committee.
What
our
community
impact
assessment
looks
like:
okay,.
B
Thanks
chair
just
just
one
so
that
you
say
that
obviously
we
don't
have
a
current
report.
There
hasn't
been
much
nighttime
economy
to
report
on,
but
the
police
have
then
said
coming
back,
it's
looking
bad
there's
an
increase.
Have
we
an
indication
at
this
stage,
just
how
bad
that
is?
Is
it
a
minor
increase,
or
is
it
something
that
we
need
to
be
really
worried
about.
F
So
during
the
lockdowns,
obviously,
everything
went
very
quiet
and,
with
the
nighttime
economy,
closed
entirely
for
a
good
proportion
of
2020
and
then
with
interim
closures.
This
year
the
crime
rates
remained
very
low
right
up
until
july
when
the
nighttime
economy
opened,
and
then
I'm
advised
that
in
citizens,
specifically,
the
crime
rates
have
risen
back
to
their
previous
levels.
F
Now
we
don't
know
if
that
was
an
impact
of
having
the
premises
shut
for
so
long
and
then
suddenly,
reopening
and
people
getting
super
excited
and
that
that
kind
of
impact
we
just
I'm
not
sure
what
long-term
impact
is,
which
is
why
we're
saying
we
need
to
be
looking
at
this
in
12
months.
What
we've
asked
for
when
we've
called
for
the
stats?
F
B
Yeah
thanks
so
yeah,
it's
important,
I
think,
to
to
understand
where
they
are
in
relation
to
what
they
were
pre
covered
because,
obviously
year
on
year,
they're
going
to
be
up
because
of
what
there
weren't
any
for
the
previous
year.
All
I
would
ask
for
is
within
that
review
and
I
totally
support
this
proposal
and
we
need
to
know
where
we're
going,
but
within
that
review,
a
bit
of
sort
of,
like
you
were
saying,
has
it
increased
due
to
sort
of
the
excitement
of
going
back
and
then
plateaued
and
to
do
it?
B
Monthly
is
great,
and
I
just
think
if
we
can
perhaps
get
a
little
bit
of
intelligence
behind
that
some
commentary
behind
the
figures.
When
we
come
to
us
analyze
them,
you
know
what
is
the
reason?
Can
we
sort
of
say
it
is
because
of
that?
Or
is
it
just
that
everything's
out
of
control?
Is
it
down
to
police
numbers?
Is
it
you
know
what
what's
driving
the
increase
and
is
it
something
that
can
naturally
turn
around
or
is
it
something
that
interventions
are
required.
A
Give
that
any
other
comments
or
questions?
No.
Thank
you
for
that.
So
we
have
to
approve
an
interim
review
and
consultation
to
ensure
that
community
impact
remains
appropriate
until
a
detailed
and
for
a
review
of
the
assessment
can
take
place
in
2022
members
happy
to
accept
the
recommendation
as
set
out
on
page
nine
of
the
agenda
pack.
If
I
can
have
a
show
of
hands,
please
there
we
go
nice
and
unanimous.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
So
cheers
item
agenda,
number
nine
taxiing,
private
hire
licensing
your
west,
yorkshire
and
york.
A
G
Thank
you
chair.
I'm
just
aware
that
members
of
the
committee
for
this
year
this
is
possibly
the
first
time
you've
seen
a
report
on
the
west,
yorkshire
and
york
work,
even
though
we've
mentioned
it
or
we've
touched
on
it
in
discussions
elsewhere.
G
So
I
think
it
was
something
that
chair
asked
me
to
provide
a
report
on
update
and
particularly
the
review
we
want
to
have,
with
the
other
five
authorities
in
the
west,
yorkshire
and
york
group
to
review
our
progress,
see
if
one
more
push
would
get
us
there
on
in
terms
of
some
of
the
areas
or
to
see
if
there's
areas
that
we
need
to
undertake
differently.
It's
quite
a
long
report.
I
go
into
quite
quite
some
detail:
I'm
not
going
to
walk
everybody
through
every
single
point.
G
What
I'll
do
is
I'll
stop
at
the
end
of
the
introduction
and
section
section
two
and
then
we'll
go
into
the
specific
points
around
the
the
six
areas
that
we
focused
on
and
then
we'll
have.
I
think
probably
the
chair
is
to
have
a
broader
discussion
about
other
areas
of
risk
or
areas
that
we
might.
We
might
regard
as
being
new
pressures,
new
concerns,
and-
and
we
would
have
that
we
would
have
that
discussion,
then
so,
just
just
a
summary
really
just
just
to
introduce
you.
G
We've
had
a
project
in
place
since
about
20
2016,
and
I
think
early
in
2016,
the
six
authorities
all
changed
their
constitutions,
so
that
importantly,
their
enforcement
officers
could
actually
undertake
some
of
the
enforcement
work
of
of
the
on
the
mainly
on
the
vehicles
of
neighboring
authorities.
When
they're,
you
know,
if
you
like
a
kirkleads
vehicle
in
leeds,
so
that's
been
in
place
for
several
years.
There's
five
other
areas
of
off
progress
as
well.
That
I'll
talk
you
through,
but
it's.
G
I
think
it's
important
to
understand
that
this
is
a
focus
specifically
on
passenger
safety.
This
came
in
the
in
the
wake
of
the
concerns
about
rotherham.
I
think
the
concerns
in
2015
and
16
were
around
rossendale
vehicles
that
were
driving
in
some
parts
of
west
yorkshire,
primarily
probably
calderdale
and
bradford,
not
so
much
in
these,
but
we
were
seeing
them.
We
were
seeing
transport
for
london
vehicles
in
leeds
in
2016..
We
don't
we
don't.
We
don't
see
that
anymore.
G
One
of
the
major
areas
of
cross-border
concern
now
is
vehicles
actually
coming
from
outside
of
west
yorkshire,
so
we
know
that
wolverhampton.
I
think
I
touched
on.
The
previous
report
has
issued
something
like
25
000
private
hire
driver
licenses
in
the
last
four
years.
Wolverhampton's,
not
that
big
those
drivers
and
vehicles
are
all
over
the
country
so,
and
I
think
so.
This
is
a
taster
on
that.
G
The
risk
issues
surrounded
with
cross
cross
border
working
and
the
the
awareness
that
authorities
can
no
longer
really
regard
themselves
as
having
these
sort
of
borders.
We
talk
about
borders
or
boundaries
between
authorities,
actually
those
vehicles
move
and
the
drivers
move.
G
So
the
focus
today
is
really
is,
is
to
review,
evaluate
the
six
previously
identified
areas
and
just
to
go
through
why
we
focused
on
those
six
and
to
determine
then
whether
they
remain
the
right
areas
or
whether
we
should
actually
have
a
broader
regional,
regional
review,
and
it's
something
that's
going
on
across
the
uk.
I
think
you've
just
heard
from
from
sue
covert
has
affected
all
sorts
of
aspects
of
the
nighttime
economy
as
well
as
well.
G
G
So
just
turning
to
page
80
and
the
background
information.
So,
just
to
reiterate,
the
purpose
of
taxing
private
high
licensing
is
to
keep
the
traveling
public
safe.
That
is
that
is
the
rationale
for
it
and
that's
always
the
first
thing
that
we
we
would
look
to
the
the
increase.
There's
been
an
increase
since
2013,
really
in
drivers
and
vehicles
making
journeys
across
borders
and
the
rising
cross-border
working
and
in
some
cases
it's
absolutely
prevalent,
has
revealed
inconsistencies
in
standards
and
in
turn,
that
creates
a
weak
link.
G
If
people
can
be
licensed
in
one
authority
and
work
predominantly
in
another
authority
and
take
advantage
of
weaknesses
in
in
licensing
systems
or
weaknesses
in
enforcement
that
then
could
could
pose
a
risk
and
the
example
that
we
could
draw
on.
There
could
be
a
driver
who
is
suspended
in
one
authority
because
he's
failed.
His
medical,
his
eye
test,
he's
not
not
fit
to
drive,
but
if
he
thinks
he
can
work
somewhere
else
and
he's
in
an
authority
that
doesn't
know
he's
suspended,
he
could
be
he
could
carry
on
driving.
G
So
there's
concerns
concerns
just
on
on
on
that
level,
around
the
motivation
for
people
to
to
be
licensed
in
one
area
and
work
and
work
in
another.
It
always
remains
the
council's
responsibility
to
develop,
review
and
update
tax,
improve
our
license
policies
and
practice
to
this
end.
So,
although
we
would
we
would
collaborate
with
neighbouring
authorities,
we
would
consult
and
engage
with
the
trade.
G
It's
the
council's
responsibility
to
do
that,
unlike
carriage
licensing
authorities,
just
do
not
have
the
power
to
restrict
the
number
of
licenses
for
private
hire
drivers
or
vehicles.
It's
a
non.
It's
it's
in
that
respect.
It's
an
unregulated
industry.
We
can
have
as
many
or
as
few
as
the
market
supports,
so
particularly
where
we
have
concerns
around
a
shock
to
the
system
affecting
earnings.
G
Again,
our
focus
primarily
from
a
licensing
point
of
view
would
be
on
the
public,
or
that
would
be
on
the
public
safety
side
of
that
and
we've
definitely
had
a
shock
to
the
system.
That's
affected
the
earnings
in
leads.
G
G
Unsurprisingly,
we've
got
about
700
fewer
vehicles
and
about
300
fewer
drivers
and
that
that's
causing
a
problem
for
some
private
hire
operators
for
some
hackney
carriage
associations
and
particularly
we're
getting
more
complaints
around
people,
particularly
people
using
wheelchairs,
saying
that
they're
not
able
to
fulfill
their
journey
as
there's
little
provision
in
our
current
regional
work
on
some
of
those
aspects,
around
honoring
honoring
journeys
and
dealing
with
those
complaints.
G
I
think
the
wider
context
there
is
that
just
the
rise
in
the
number
and
scale
and
scope
of
operators
who
who
work
deliberately
across
local
authority
boundaries
as
well.
So
there
are
there's
a
whole
whole
list
of
operators
that
are
that
primarily
see
themselves
as
tech
companies
and
only
recently
have
regarded
themselves
as
in
having
workers
they
may
not
yet
be
employees.
G
But
smartphone
technology
has
enabled
people
now
to
push
to
push
a
button
on
their
phone
and
to
help
hail
the
vehicle
that
comes
within
two
to
two
to
four
minutes
in
in
some
cases.
So
it's
not
immediate,
but
it's
within
very
short
notice,
so
licensing
authorities
can
license
operators,
drivers
and
vehicles
who
intend
to
work
regularly
or
predominantly
outside
of
their
licensing
district.
There
was
a
test
case,
probably
about
three
years
ago,
an
authority
in
the
northwest
that
sought
to
try
and
reduce
that.
G
So
that
would
be
equivalent
of
leads
asking
or
requiring
that
it
is
drivers
in
its
in
its
authority
would
would
work
for,
say
75
of
their
time
in
leeds
that
was
thrown
out.
That
was
appealed
and
then
thrown
out
by
the
by
the
high
court.
So
we
know
that,
although
we
can't
limit
the
numbers,
we
also
cut
limited
levers
to
affect
cross-border
working
at
some
point.
In
the
work
program,
we
will
have
a
review
of
operator
conditions
to
say
well
short
of
the
law
changing.
G
What
else
can
we
do,
and
that
will
a
lot
of
that,
I
think,
will
focus
on
the
booking,
will
focus
on
the
use
of
smartphone
apps,
and
particularly,
I
would
have
thought
the
passenger
preference.
G
Do
you
want
a
local
driver
and
if
you
want
a
local
driver,
we
would
want
operators
to
be
able
to
offer
a
local
driver
who's
who's
been
trained
in
past
training
in
the
geography
of
the
area
where,
where
they're
working
so
just
finally,
on
the
on
the
first
part
that
linked
up
the
council's
work
with
the
work
with
the
neighboring
authorities,
I
think
it
marked
a
significant
change
from
what
we
would
do
differently.
G
Probably
previously,
we
had
all
six
authorities
working
very,
very
differently,
there's
probably
an
awful
lot
that
the
five
authorities
in
west
yorkshire
got
in
common
in.
In
terms
of
that-
and
I
think
particularly
it's
a
positive
way
of
looking
at
developments.
G
If
you
can
get
that
agreement
across
the
authority,
the
department
for
transport
has
issued
a
set
of
statutory
guidance
that
actually
strongly
recommends
in
three
or
four
areas,
including
consultation,
including
when
you
review
or
change
policies,
including
sort
of
communication,
including
intelligence,
where
actually
there
should
be
a
requirement
for
those
authorities
to
work
closely
together.
As
I
said,
since
2016
we've
actually
changed
some
of
the
job
descriptions
and
some
of
the
legal
powers,
but
it
may
well
be
that
we
need
to
go
further.
G
We
haven't,
we
haven't
done
reciprocal
arrangements
with
selby
or
with
hurricane
or
with
other
neighboring
authorities,
and
yet
once
in
a
while,
we
see
their
vehicles
in
leads
primarily
for
leads.
This
would
be
vehicles.
We
see
from
other
authorities
in
leeds,
but
york
would
also
see
leeds
vehicles
in
york,
particularly
maybe
not
so
much
in
the
other
in
the
other
authorities.
G
Okay,
I'm
just
going
to
turn
to
the
impact
of
code
and
then
I'll
pause
there
and
just
see.
If
there's
any
any
questions,
so
I
think
I've
summarized
a
lot
of
the
the
the
impact
of
covid.
We
know
that
taxi
and
private
hire
fulfills
a
really
important
transport
function
in
leeds
it's,
although
maybe
potentially
a
small
number
small
percentage
number
of
all
the
total
journeys
in
leads.
G
It's
a
much
higher
percentage
of
journeys
that
people
who
have
a
mobility
need
or
or
a
disability,
it's
a
large,
much
much
larger
proportion
of
those
journeys.
The
most
recent
department
for
transport
report
that
went
to
the
house
of
house
of
commons
said
that
people
with
a
disability
mobility,
probably
take
between
20
or
30
taxi
or
private
hire
journeys
a
year
and
the
average
is
probably
fewer
than
10.
So
it's
a
significant
you
know
increase
there.
We
also
know.
G
I
think,
that
people,
those
people
who
are
disabled
have
a
mobility
need
also
a
risk
of
harm,
particularly
children,
and
so
on.
Older
people
they're
also
more
likely
to
need
to
travel
to
and
from
school
or
health
appointments
for
actually
some
people,
their
number
of
journeys
by
taxing
private
high
will
actually
gone
up
in
the
last
18
months.
G
At
the
same
time,
if
there's
been
a
fall
off
in
terms
of
the
availability
of
vehicles
or
the
number
of
drivers
in
a
pre-pandemic
year-
and
this
is
taken
from
something
called-
the
the
unmet
demand
survey
that
we
would
want
to
to
revisit
when
we
finish
the
road
works
in
the
city
center,
we
estimate
there's
more
than
30
million
journeys,
either
starting
or
finishing
in
leeds.
So
it's
an
enormous
number
tax
and
private
high
trades,
which
is
a
significant
trade
they're
dealing
with
hundreds
and
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
journeys
every
day.
G
We
want
all
those
services
to
continue
safely
during
the
cobit
pandemic.
During
now,
we've
still
got
extra
measures
and
we
want
those
vehicles
and
those
drivers
to
be
available
to
us
when
the
restrictions
and
social
justice
thing
end
completely.
G
We
may
well
have
a
much
lower
level
of
drivers
or
vehicles
going
forward,
so
particularly,
we
think
that
that
it
is
relevant
that
we're
aware
of
the
the
impact
of
covert,
particularly
on
the
availability
vehicles.
I
think
I'm
we're
much
more
interested
in
where
the
earnings
of
taxi
and
private
hire
drivers
and
operators
impact
on
their
passengers
safety
than
just
the
earnings
per
se.
This
is
a
trade
where
people
do
drop
in
and
drop
out
of
the
trade
and
therefore
it
seemed
to
seem
to
regulate
itself.
So
that's
the
background.
G
First
part
focus
on
public
safety,
the
the
logic
for
regional
or
sub-regional
coordination,
and
then.
Secondly,
I
think
that
the
context
of
we've
had
a
really
difficult
18
months
and
as
we
we
resume
services
now
we're
reviewing.
What
the
impact
is.
We're
going
to
have
meetings
with
the
other
west,
yorkshire
and
york
authorities
very
interested
to
see
if
there's,
if
the
falling
leads
is
met
with
a
with
an
increase
in
other
authorities.
G
That
might
tell
us
something
different
or
if
there's
been
a
pattern
around
sort
of
mergers
and
takeovers
from
operators,
and
they
might,
we
might
find
there's
fewer
operators
working
in
the
suburbs
or
the
or
the
outlying
towns,
which
is
a
real
concern.
I
think
in
terms
of
availability
of
drives
and
vehicles
just
stopped
there
in
terms
of
that
sort
of
position.
Background
information.
A
Thank
you
for
that
andrew
bear
in
mind
this
that's
kind
of
the
summary
of
where
we
are
and
what
taxing
private
highlight
licenses
for
I'm
just
mindful
that
colleagues
may
want
to
get
into
the
more
meaty
aspects
of
this
report.
So
is
there
any
pressing
questions
now
around
the
generalities
of
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing,
or
can
we
let
andrew
get
into
the
meaty
part
of
it
over
to
you
again
andrew.
G
Thank
you
chair,
so
the
main
issues.
So
the
cap,
the
the
six
authorities,
have
agreed
to
work
together
in
part
because
we
like
we
identify
there
are
some
cross
council
interests
there.
G
So
so
each
of
the
authorities
has
recognized
that
either
either
their
vehicles,
their
drivers
are
working
regularly
in
another
in
another
authority
or
that
there
is
a
there
is
a
risk
of
that
or
in
some
cases
the
boundaries
are
so
so
so
overlapping
that,
therefore
people
making
normal
journeys
would
be
regularly
driving
across
different
local
authority
areas.
G
The
main
focus
was
around
strengthening
cross
council
procedures,
strengthening
cross
council
policies
so
that
there
was
an
evening
up
to
to
prevent
the
risk
of
a
weak
link
somewhere
in
the
region,
be
allowing
then
people
who
broadly
would
say
would
not
would
not
be
appropriate
to
work
or
reducing
the
number
of
checks
or
reducing
the
background
checks
or
reducing
the
efficacy
of
those
checks
and
particularly
to
overcome
the
the
risk
impact
of
license
shopping.
G
So
that
is
the
predominantly
to
be
licensed
in
one
authority,
but
work
all
your
time
in
another
authority
and
think
particularly
it's
really
unpopular
with
with
large
large
parts
of
the
trade.
It
is
not
illegal.
It
absolutely
is
permitted
in
terms
that
it
causes
all
sorts
of
problems.
Just
in
terms
of
we
would
say
just
in
terms
of
people
who
see
a
vehicle
that
that's
not
not
usual
looks
like
it's
out
of
town,
they
might
not
know
which
authority
it's
licensed
in.
G
It
might
not
have
stickers
the
same
as
in
the
authority
that
they
see,
if
they're,
not
sure
about
something,
and
I
think
anything
that
that
acts
as
a
discouragement.
For
someone
to
say,
I've
seen
something
that's
not
right,
but
I
don't
know
who
to
get
in
touch
with.
So
if
someone
sees
a
kirklees
vehicle
in
leads,
do
I
ring
leads?
Do
I
do
do
I
ring
click?
G
The
answers
you
can
ring
either
of
us
there's
no
wrong
door
on
that
and
we'll
work
very
closely
together
to
deal
with
that,
so
those
sorts
of
things
around
around
those
those
those
risks
and
those
and
those
concerns.
One
of
the
aspects
of
the
policy
development
is
this
response
to
pressures
against
local
licensing.
There's
there's
no.
G
You
know,
for
example,
the
largest
private
hire
operator
in
leeds
uber,
he's
only
licensed
in
seven
authorities
in
south
and
west
yorkshire,
so
they're,
actually
in
the
five
authorities
in
in
west
yorkshire
and
they're
licensed
in
sheffield
and
rotherham.
I'm
not
aware
that
they're
licensed
anywhere
else
and
they've
lost
their
licence
in
york,
and
yet
they
will
work
all
over
west
georgia.
G
So
there's
the
the
rationale
there
is
that
they
don't
seek
a
licence
in
every
authority
where
they're,
where
their
drivers
and
vehicles
plan
to
work
so
because
drivers
and
vehicles
can
work
regularly
across
council
borders.
There's
a
range
of
factors,
then
in
neighboring
authorities,
working
together
understanding
and
addressing
the
risks,
and
particularly
those
risks
that
might
be
daytime.
That
might
be
to
do
with
general
information
in
terms
of
the
standard
of
vehicles,
but
it
might
be
something
very
specific
about
nighttime
enforcement.
G
We
know
leeds
has
got
the
largest
nighttime
economy
in
the
region,
we're
hoping
that
on
a
busy.
You
know
busy
night
between
now
and
christmas,
we'll
have
a
hundred
thousand
people
in
leeds
city
centre.
That's
far
more
than
that,
you
would
get
in
the
cities
at
the
town,
centres
and
city
centres
of
the
neighbouring
authorities.
So
we
know
leads
to
some
degrees.
The
honeypot
there
we've
got.
You
know
more
more
students,
we've
got
other
destinations
in
leeds
that
mean
that
there's
more
people
coming
in
coming
into
leeds.
G
So
the
the
primary
aim
was
to
review
the
existing
arrangements
and
just
turn
it
turning
the
page
to
section
3.5,
particularly
just
to
focus
on
the
six
areas
where
the
authorities
had
as
a
brainstorm.
We
had
a
lot
much
much
longer
list
and
focused
on
these
six,
and
the
aim
was
to
have
common
minimum
standards
to
not
have
everything
aimed
at
being
identical.
I
think
we've
looked
at
a
review
of
our
supporting
policies
and
we've
got
certainly
what
we've
got
24
supporting
policies.
G
The
aim
was
to
develop
common
minimum
standards
and
even
in
those
cases,
it
would
still
be
possible
for
an
authority
to
have
standards
above
the
minimum,
but
all
authorities
would
adopt
standards
at
around
or
above
the
standard
agreed
and
I'll
just
go
through
the
six
in
summary
and
then
the
really
the
rest
of
the
the
section
on
the
main
issues
then
going
any
more
in
more
detail.
I
don't
propose
to
go
into
great
detail,
but
to
open
up
the
discussion,
then
around
those
specific
areas.
G
So
here
are
the
six,
so
one
was
cctv
in
vehicles,
particularly
that
was
about
developing
a
common
policy
common
standard.
Actually,
we've
had
a
working
group
in
leeds
and
we've
worked
through
the
advice
from
the
information.
Commissioner,
the
advice
in
the
information
commissioner
is
very
clear
on
the
standards
that
you
need
for
cctv,
so
I'm
not
sure
quite
what
will
be
gained
by
other
authorities
doing
their
own
research
if
they
took
the
information.
Commissioner
they'd
get
very
clear
advice,
but
standardized
specification.
G
If
you
have
cctv
and
vehicles,
something
that
we
think
passengers
like,
certainly
something
we
think
drivers
and
operators
and
associations
like
if
you
have
cctv,
here's
the
standard
it
should
meet.
Second,
one
can
be
at
the
time
it
was
called
convictions
in
part
because
leads
had
a
convictions
policy
now
called
suitability.
G
That's
the
main
thrust
of
the
suitability
policies
that
all
of
those
six
authorities
that
that
we,
you
know
that
we're
part
of
have
adopted
the
same
period
of
refusal
for
people
who've
for
the
very
small
number
of
people.
Who've
got
that
that
on
their
record.
Thirdly,
driver
training
to
develop
common
training
policies
and
assessment
methods
and
standards
the
same
pass
or
fail
mark
we've
agreed
an
eight
module
driver
training
course.
We
haven't
yet
agreed
driver
re,
refresher
training
that
one
or
one
of
the
six
authorities
does.
G
That
might
be
one
of
the
areas
that
we
discuss.
If
the
training
is
very
good,
do
we
need
refresher
training?
Could
we
do
do
it
another
way,
enforcement
capacity
and
practice
to
strengthen
on-street
enforcement?
We
know
that
every
authority
has
got
a
sort
of
enforcement,
that's
a
complaints
function,
but
actually
what's
happening
in
terms
of
identifying
areas
of
risk.
I've
mentioned,
for
example,
the
school
run
mentioned
daytime
a
lot
of
our
enforcement
focuses
on
the
nighttime
economy,
the
the
enforcement
officers
that
work
in
leeds.
G
It's
primarily
complaints
during
the
day
in
case
work
and
at
night
time,
it's
patrols
and
and
probably
over
half
of
those
patrols
in
leed
city
center.
So
that
might
mean
that
we've
got
other
areas
of
leads
that
we
we
should
be
looking
at
fifth
information
sharing
to
improve
information
sharing
about
license
holders
who
believe
to
pose
a
risk
about
passengers
that
could
include
the
include
the
example
I
gave
before
around
the
driver.
Who's
suspended
failed,
an
eye
test.
G
It's
not
a
major
issue
there,
but
if
someone's
tempted
to
carry
on
working
well,
they're
not
fit
to
work,
it's
something
that
we
would
want.
G
We
would
want
to
know
about
if
there
was
a
concern
there
and
that's
where
you
might
have
number
plate
recognition-
or
you
might
have
put
put
this
put
this
vehicle
on
your
on
your
radar,
that
sort
of
information
and
then
finally
vehicle
conditions
to
improve
vehicle
condition,
standards
across
the
region,
so
that
a
weak
policy
and
one
authority
does
not
pose
risks
across
the
region
and
that's
the
sixth
area
and
very
clear
later
in
the
reports,
the
area
that
we've
made
the
least
progress
on
we've,
made
much
more
progress
on
suitability,
driver
training
enforcement
standards,
information
sharing-
we
are
it's
fair
to
say,
I
think
still
somewhere
apart
in
vehicle
conditions
and
in
part
it's
one
of
the
hottest.
G
G
Okay,
so
I'll
pause
there.
I
won't
go
into
each
of
the
the
six
in
detail,
but
I've
provided
it
in
the
report.
Just
to
put
it
down
just
see,
if
there's
any
any
questions
on
those
those
areas.
A
So,
just
before
going
to
that,
I
think
one
of
the
main
purpose
of
this
discussion
is
also
not
just
to
give
a
refreshment
to
also
help
guide
myself
and
counselor
cooper
in
the
conversations
we'll
be
having
with
our
regional
colleagues.
So
as
we
go
for
this,
be
mindful
that
we'll
be
having
those
conversations
and
obviously
so,
very
interested
in
finding
out
what
the
committee's
thoughts
are
on
some
of
these
areas,
whether
they're
still
the
right
areas,
whether
they're
not
the
right
areas,
whether
other
priorities.
A
D
Thank
you,
andrew,
and
thank
you
for
your
report
as
well.
I
think
everybody
in
the
committee
would
welcome
and
appreciate
your
efforts
to
improve
passenger
safety.
Obviously
that's
paramount
and
obviously
working
in
a
cross-authority
way
is
really
useful.
It's
the
way
forward,
and
we
all
appreciate
that.
D
Now
we're
getting
reports
of
vehicles
being
turned
away
as
inappropriate
for
chips,
small
chips
not
being
buffered
before
they're,
going
for
inspection
scratches
and
allo
wheels
things
that
to
me,
to
my
mind,
don't
seem
to
do,
have
anything
to
do
with
passenger
safety
and
certainly
wouldn't
prevent
me
from
going
in
a
taxi
if
somebody
had
a
scratch
on
their
ally
wheel.
Now
you
mentioned
as
well
in
your
report
that
we
are
losing
drivers
and
leads
the
reasons
for
that.
D
Obviously
the
economy
has
changed
since,
since
covet
there
are
people
are
eating
more
takeaways,
as
we
know,
it's
a
similar
profession
of
profession
and
easy
for
drivers
to
move
from
being
a
taxi
driver
into
that
industry
with
much
less
much
well,
less
less
high
standards,
you
know
and
and
easier
access
to
that
industry
as
well
in
in
the
in
the
respect
of
it's
a
cheaper
investment
to
buy
a
car
to
be
able
to
deliver
takeaways,
and
it
is
to
be
a
taxi
now
the
the
impact
that
that's
over
in
our
city,
the
the
reduced
numbers.
D
I
mean
I
work
as
a
social
worker,
a
frontline
social
worker
and
and-
and
I
see
firsthand,
that
I
can't
get
any.
I
can't
get
taxes
for
for
the
most
vulnerable
and
disadvantaged.
Now
you
have
acknowledged
that
as
well.
It's
a
difficult
issue,
but
if
you
could
address
some
of
the
concerns
that
we
over
the
reports
that
we've
had
is
now
the
right
time
to
have
such
high
standards
on
things
like
small
scratches
and
scratches
on
allo
wheels.
A
Sorry,
andrew
just
before
you
coming
sorry
just
to
remind
councillors-
and
I
think
this
is
a
very
important
point.
Actually
public
safety
comes
first
and
there
is
a
significant
difference
of
public
risk
between
someone
doing
a
takeaway
delivery
and
someone
doing
stuff.
I
appreciate
the
point
counselor
gibson,
to
be
very
clear
to
the
public
watching
as
well.
The
council's
first
and
only
priority
is
public
safety,
so
I
appreciate
the
example
you've
given,
but
I
do
feel
it's
an
unfair
example
andrew.
If
you
want
to
come
in,
please.
G
Thank
you.
Thank
you
councillor.
I
mean,
I
think,
abs
absolutely,
and
I
think
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
discussion
around
vehicle
conditions,
lead
city
council
has
got
elements
of
its
vehicle
conditions,
policy
that
are
not
just
about
safety.
It's
also
about
appearance.
G
I've
never
yet
come
across
a
vehicle
that
has
only
failed
for
one
scratch
or
a
or
a
scuffed
up,
scuffed
alloy
we
are,
I
am
reviewing
or
we
are
reviewing.
The
we've
got
a
sort
of
50
page
checklist
that
shows
every
vehicle
examiner
how
to
inspect
a
vehicle
in
the
same
way,
and
I
think
there
may
well
be
borderline
issues
around
things
like
curved
out
curved
alloys
or
scuffed
allies
or
minor
dents.
Well,
we've
got
some
advice.
G
That
would
say
if
the
dents
smaller
than
a
certain
size,
it's
a
might
it's
a
minor
dent,
but
it
might
depend
on
how
it's
been
repaired
and
that's
be
very
clear.
That's
about
appearance
and
probably
that's
about
confidence
and
perception.
So
it's
not
just
about
safety.
The
areas
that
we
were
trying
to
to
harmonize
in
in
west
yorkshire
were
just
around
things
like
the
ages
of
vehicles.
G
So
the
majority
of
leeds
vehicles
come
off
the
fleet
when
they're
10,
and
it's
just
not
the
case
in
other
authorities
and
we've
just
seen
wakefield
consulting
at
the
moment
on
their
plans
to
inspect
vehicles
every
six
months,
and
that
suggests
to
me
that
possibly
they've
got
a
high
number
of
vehicles
failing
because
they're
allowing
vehicles
above
a
certain
age
to
work.
We
don't
necessarily
have
that
no
number
in
lead.
So
I
think
particularly
it's
absolutely
part
of
that
discussion.
I
think,
particularly
in
terms
of
the
policy
says
the
vehicle
should
be
properly
maintained.
G
The
policy
says
the
vehicle
should
be
maintained
in
line
with
the
manufacturer's
standard.
That
could
mean
that
if
you
have
a
toyota
and
you
fit
a
nissan
hubcap
and
it
says
nissan,
I
think
that
vehicle
could
be
failed.
I
very
much
want
the
officer
to
say
you
need
to
get
a
new
hubcap
so
that
it
matches
with
the
with
the
with
the
three
others
to
do
that,
and
I
wouldn't
necessarily
see
that
as
a
fail.
I
would
see
that
as
what
we
would
call
an
advisory
to
get
that
vehicle
sorted
out
within
so
many.
G
So
many
days
and
probably
to
be
able
to
carry
on
working,
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
to
is
to
make
sure
that
we're
very,
very
clear
about
the
standards
at
which
we
want
people.
We
want
people
to
work
to
I'm
sort
of
genuine
I've
had
many
many
complaints
and
feedback.
Probably
over
the
past
12
months,
some
people
have
said
you
failed
my
vehicle
and
it's
failed
for
one
scratch
and
I've
never
yet
found
that
scratch
to
be
the
only
thing.
G
I
found
some
very
serious
other
issues,
and
I
would
want
to
make
sure
that
the
the
licensing
officers,
sorry,
the
the
vehicle
examiners-
are
not
overstepping
the
mark
in
terms
of
failing
every
vehicle
where
they
can.
G
Their
aim
is
to
assess
the
vehicle
and
to
be
clear,
what's
needed
to
bring
that
vehicle
into
compliance,
and
I
think
particularly
the
chairs
view,
which
is
you
might
accept-
a
food
delivery
from
a
vehicle
with
dents
and
concerns,
but
if
passengers
are
regularly
getting
into
vehicles
that
have
got
dents
and
and
body
damage,
the
question
might
be
wonder
what
else
hasn't
been
maintained
on
the
vehicles?
G
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
the
risk
of
harm
around
that
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
in
terms
of
on-street
enforcement
with
neighboring
authorities
is
we
aim
to
do
one
on
on-street
joint
operation
with
one
of
the
neighboring
authorities
every
other
month
or
something
like
that
and
the
enforcement
operation
we
did
in
the
summer.
In
york,
we
found
that
a
large
majority
of
the
vehicles
in
york
failed
the
on-street
inspection,
so
we
think
by
having
those
tougher
standards.
G
Actually
those
vehicles
are
more
much
more
likely
to
be
fit
for
purpose
when
they're,
hailed
or
booked
on
street.
So
I'd
I'd
probably
just
be
aware
that
that
what
might
be
seen
to
be
attempting
route
to
say
they've
got
that
policy
in
that
in
in
that
other
neighboring
authority.
Why
don't
we
move
to
that?
But
this
is
one
I
think
we'll
be
having
a
lot
of
these
discussions
around
harmonization
and
particularly
working
with
a
trade
that
has
you
know.
G
Particularly
people
have
lost
months
and
months
of
earnings
over
the
last
18
months.
That
doesn't
mean
the
public
should
feel
any
less
safe
when
they
get
in
those
vehicles.
The
question
is:
how
do
we?
How
do
we
achieve
that
and
how
you
know?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
reach
that
point?
I'll
absolutely
agree
with
you
minor
minor,
dents
minor,
scratches,
are
not
to
do
with
safety
until
they're,
so
long
neglected
that
they
do.
G
They
do
under
undermine
the
the
safety
of
the
vehicle,
but
that's
more
to
do
with
appearance
and
and
confidence,
and
those
aren't
spelt
out
in
our
in
our
policies,
but
that
wouldn't
necessarily
be
a
large
part
of
the
what
we've
discussed
previously.
It
would
be
basic
basic
issues
like
neighboring
authorities
were
on
our
vehicle
that
had
previously
been
written
off,
leads
we
wouldn't
do
and
so
on.
So
that's
a
a
a
very
brief
about.
G
I
absolutely
hear
what
you're
saying
in
terms
of
the
feedback
we're
getting
from
people
saying.
I
think
your
your
officers
have
been
over
overzealous
in
failing
a
vehicle
and
we
are
regularly
regularly
reviewing
that
every
single
time.
There
is
a
complaint
about
that.
I
will
then
review
that
with
the
with
the
manager,
and
we
will
talk
to
either
manager
or
the
officer
concerned
to
make
sure
that
we
don't
have
over
overzealous
officers.
D
Okay,
two
issues.
Thank
you
for
that.
First,
one
is
what
transparency
is
the
with
the
reviews
of
the
complaints
you're
having
for
officers
failing
for
for
scratches
and
dints?
That's
the
first
question:
do
do
we,
as
the
committee
have
access
to
to
review
that?
Is
it
just
yourself?
What
does
the
industry?
How
are
you
working
with
the
industry
to
communicate
that?
Actually,
it's
more
than
just
scratches
and
and
didn't,
and
the
second
thing
you
know
look,
let
me
be
absolutely
clear.
Safety
is
paramount.
D
It
has
to
be
paramount
and
I'm
proud
that
this
city
is
leading
the
way
in
the
in
making
sure
that
our
passengers
are
the
safest
in
the
county.
However,
is
it
the
time
to
you've
said
it
yourself?
It's
not
just
about
safety.
Part
of
this
is
about
the
conditions
of
the
vehicles,
the
appearance
of
the
vehicles,
the
aesthetics.
D
A
C
C
I
understand
how
difficult
it
is,
but
one
of
the
questions
that
I've
been
asked
is:
how
do
you
stop
taxes
coming
from
across
the
board
that
are
less
safe
than
our
really
high
standard,
which
I
appreciate
you're
working
for
so
that's
one
question,
and
just
also
when
we're
talking
about
passenger
safety
taxis
are
a
real,
a
really
important
part
of
our
transport,
our
transport
network
in
in
leeds,
because
of
the
the
the
inadequacy
of
the
public
transport
system.
C
C
Taxis
are
really
important
for
that
for
getting
to
hospital
for
getting
in
and
out
of
town
late
at
night,
and
so,
if
we
we're
looking
at
no
declining
numbers
of
taxes
in
leeds,
as
a
result
of
maybe
requiring
really
costly
changes
to
taxes
and
adaptations
to
taxes,
how
are
we
balancing
that?
How
are
we
being
sure?
So,
first
of
all,
how
are
we
stopping
less
like
the
wolverhampton
example?
C
Taxes
licensed
taxes
coming
into
leeds
what
happens
when
someone
reports
seeing
a
taxi
from
another
area,
and
just
how
are
we
balancing
this
issue
about
the
dropping
numbers
of
of
taxes
in
leeds
and
what
that
has
the
impact
that
has
on
public
safety.
G
Thank
you
councillor.
I
mean,
I
think,
the
first
point.
Local
authorities
got
very
limited
powers.
The
powers
that
our
officers
have
would
be
to
inspect
vehicles
of
the
on
the
on
the
street
and
then
to
follow
that
up
with
with
checks,
then
maybe
in
some
cases
directly
with
the
operator,
but
some
cases
with
the
home
licensing
authority.
You
mentioned
wolverhampton.
G
I
know
that
wolverhampton
do
send
their
own
enforcement
teams
out
and
about
across
across
the
uk,
to
live
up
to
their
responsibilities,
to
to
check
that
they're
enforcing
and
I'd
absolutely
agree
with
you
that
that
the
national
framework
just
does
not
provide.
I
don't
see
why
an
enforcement
officer
who's
employed
in
leeds
has
passed.
Recruitment
selection
cannot
take
effective
enforcement
action
against
any
taxi
or
private
hire
vehicle
that
we
see
in
leads.
G
We
might
end
up
having
to
do
more
information
sharing
protocols
with
more
and
more
authorities,
rather
than
just
give
off
just
give
our
officers
the
responsibilities
so
that
you
can
have
an
enforcement
anywhere.
That's
the
position
for
blue
badges
anywhere,
so
you
can
have
a
blue
batch
from
cornwall.
It's
it
appears
in
leeds
leads
leads,
can
actually
take
enforcement
action
to
check
whether
that
that
badge
is
being
used
used
properly.
That's
what
we
push
for
under
the
the
preamble
to
the
to
the
statutory
guidance.
So
the.
How
do
you
stop?
G
The
taxes
is
more
to
do
with.
How
do
you
inspect
them
on
the
street?
We
probably
would
would
probably
check
around
2
000
vehicles
a
year
in
our
garage
in
terms
of
inspections,
and
we
probably
check
the
same
number
of
vehicles
on
street
every
year
and
we
aim
for
between
10
and
20
of
those
on
street
inspections
to
be
non-lead
vehicles.
G
So
if
an
enforcement
officer
is
working
tonight
and
they
approach
a
certain
location
and
there's
two
private
high
vehicles,
one's
from
leeds
one's
not
from
leeds,
they
will
go
to
the
non
leads
one
because
they
don't
know
when
they're
going
to
see
that
vehicle
again.
So
I'm
afraid
that
his
boots
on
the
ground,
that
that
is
where
actually
the
law
gives
local
authorities
very
little
powers.
The
law
is
different
in
london,
so
london,
they
are
able
to
take
some
steps
to
prevent
some
element
of
cross-border
working.
G
So
I'm
sorry
it's
hard.
It's
hard
work
and
probably
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
vehicle
checks
every
month
and
then
focused
work,
then
with
those
authorities
to
make
sure
that
those
vehicles,
those
drivers,
those
operators,
those
bookings,
are
properly
made
leeds,
doesn't
have
powers
to
refuse
a
vehicle
or
stop
a
vehicle
at
the
border
when
it
comes
into
leads
because
although
it
meets
meets
the
conditions
of
another
authority,
it
doesn't
it
wouldn't
be
our
conditions.
We
have
no,
no,
no
powers
to
do
that.
G
That
vehicle
is
appropriately
licensed
by
that
licensing
authority.
Our
work
is
in
engaging
and
persuading
the
other
authorities
that
where
there
is
a
concern
about
something,
maybe
they
need
to
review
their
their
policies
and
procedures
and
in
some
cases
they
actually
need
to
check
and
see
whether
their
approach
is
effective
in
making
sure
that
you
know
the
majority
of
vehicles
when
they
are
inspected
and
meet
high
standards
and
the
majority
vast
majority
of
drivers
when,
when
they're
spoken
to
I've,
got
a
valid
booking,
I've
got
I've
got
insurance.
G
I've
got
all
the
you
know.
I've
got
all
the
appropriate.
You
know
information
information
to
hand.
So
I'm
sorry,
that's
a
really
dry
answer,
counselor
in
terms
of
the
second
point
on
the
public
safety
and
even
the
design
and
type
of
vehicle-
and
I
think
particularly,
I
know
now
that
bradford
are
looking
at
the
possibility
of
not
having
100
of
their
carriage
vehicles
being
wheelchair
accessible
and
that's
because
of
the
combination
of
coving
and
also
a
clean
air
zone.
G
It's
actually
very
expensive
to
get
a
clean
air
zone,
compatible
wheelchair
accessible
vehicle,
they're
incredibly
expensive
about
65
000
pounds,
yeah
yeah
really
expensive,
compared
to
25
000
pounds
for
a
for
a
euro
6
version
there.
So
absolutely,
I
think
particularly
there's
not
a
week
going
by
now
that
I'm
not
getting
complaints
from
people
living
primarily
in
the
suburbs,
primarily
outside
the
ring
road
saying
I
can't
get
a
wheelchair
accessible
vehicle,
and
I
want
to
make
to
make
sure
that
in
our
review
we
are
paying
attention
to
that.
G
It's
evident
that
we
have
the
majority
of
wheelchair,
accessible
vehicles
in
leeds
are
carriages.
Very
very,
very
few
are
private
high
vehicles,
and
that
feels
something
that
we
should
be.
We
should
be
looking
to
amend,
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
specific
points,
it's
quite
a
narrow
point,
we're
talking
now
to
passenger
transport,
about
their
contracts
and
their
provision
in
terms
of
specific
provision
and
that
that
might
primarily
be
to
do
with
education
or
to
do
with
health
and
to
do
with
social
care.
G
I'm
hoping
that
it
will
touch
on
other
areas
as
well
around
the
have
have
we
got
the
right,
the
right
size,
vehicles
or
the
right.
The
right
types
of
vehicles
in
leeds
we've
actually
allowed
passenger
transport
to
use
rather
slightly
larger
vehicles
than
would
normally
be
seen
as
private
hire
vehicles
in
order
to
have
that
fleet
composition
and
we're
absolutely
having
that
discussion
with
passenger
transport.
Maybe
some
other
stakeholders
there,
but
I
would
be
I'd,
be
guided
there
by
what
the
council's
passenger
transport
service
would
be
saying.
C
Yes,
thank
you
it
just
on
the
first
point.
It
just
feels
so
unfair.
Doesn't
it
and
so
wrong
that
we
have
all
of
this
conflict
to
deal
with
in
leeds,
because
there's
no
national
framework,
so
is
there
going
to
be
as
part
of
this
review,
some
robust
representation
to
the
relevant
government
department
to
get
this
this
playing
field
level?
It's
it's
pathetic!
C
A
Sorry,
I'm
going
to
come
because
that's
more
of
a
political
question.
The
answer
is
yes,
that's
not
really
an
officer
question,
that's
a
political
question
and
the
answer
is
yes.
I
think,
just
to
restate
the
the
leads
position
has
always
been.
We
did
not
support
deregulation,
it's
not
sorry
cross-border
trading.
It's
not
something!
We've
been
keen
on
because
of
these
problems,
but
we
are
where
we
are
and
we
have
to
work
through
it,
and
I
know
council
cooper
will
make
sure
that
leeds
is.
A
E
If
something
untoward
takes
place-
and
I
find
the
the
badge
is
a
bit
small,
a
large
part
of
it
is
taken
up
with
the
logo,
for
the
the
company,
and
only
relatively
small
area
at
one
end
is
actually
got
the
vital
details
which
taxi
is
which,
and
it
just
struck
me
that
there
might
be
an
opportunity
when
you're
doing
the
realignment
to
standardize
on
a
more
visible
plate.
You
could
easily
read
from
a
distance
and
like
your
comments
on
that.
G
Absolutely
no
politics
involved
in
this
question.
Chair
I'd,
I'd
absolutely
agree
with
you.
I
think
I
think,
but
particularly
what
we,
what
we
have
in
leeds
is.
We
have
a
provision
for
the
the
stickers
or
the
identification
vehicle
that
almost
every
single
angle
to
look
at
the
vehicle.
You
can
identify
that
it's
either
a
a
taxi
or
a
private
hire
you
can
identify
who
the
operator
is.
G
If
it's
a
private
hire,
you
can
identify
the
authority
that
it's
licensed
in
that's
on
the
door
as
well
as
on
the
as
on
as
on
the
rear
of
the
vehicle
and
in
these
as
well.
We've
got
provision
for
windscreen
and
rear
windscreen
stickers
at
the
top,
and
that's
not
again
not
not
in
place
in
other
authorities,
and
I
think
particularly
having
spent
a
large
chunk
of
half
term
driving
through
west
yorkshire
sheffield
and
then
through
west
yorkshire
to
manchester
from
lee's
to
see
to
see
the
difference
there.
G
There
is
a
regional
sort
of
minimum
standards
approach
in
greater
manchester
that
I
think
we're
quite
interested
in
and
that's
one
of
the
areas
that
they've
struck
upon.
I
think
particularly
that
it
would
feel
like
quite
low
hanging
fruit
compared
to
other
things
around
vehicle
conditions
to
say,
even
if
we
don't
agree
on
vehicle
news,
can
we
at
least
agree
the
same
framework
for
for
making
it
easy
to
know?
Is
it
your
vehicle?
G
Who
is
the
operator
you've
made
the
booking
with
the
operator
you've
not
made
the
booking
with
the
with
the
driver
if
it's
a
private
hire,
and
particularly
there
with
you,
know
which
authorities
or
what
are
you
know
what
the
what
the
vehicle
number
is.
So
we
also
have
provision
for
the
for
the
vehicle
number
with
inside
the
vehicle.
G
So
if
there's
a
complaint,
someone
could
say
I
was
in,
I
was
in
vehicles,
vehicle
55
or
whatever
I've
got
vehicle
55
on
my
mind
about
anything,
so
so,
particularly
so
they
would
be
there.
So
if
we
can't
agree
on
absolutely
every
aspect
of
it,
because
we've
got
the
same
approach
to
delivery
to
stickers
the
same
approach
to
legibility,
I
would
say:
we've
got
a
very,
very
small
percentage
of
complaints
to
lead
city
council
about
taxing
private
hire
where
people
say
I
couldn't
I
couldn't
get.
G
I
couldn't
get
the
name
or
I
couldn't
get
the
number
or
I
couldn't.
I've
only
got
part
of
the
position
that
in
parts,
because
we've
got
livery
on
every
every
angle
and
we
can
normally
find
a
way
it
would
probably
be
fewer
than
five
percent
of
cases
where
we
would
say
we
would.
We
tried
to
chase
it
down,
but
it's
a
white
skoda
octavia.
No
other
information,
we're
not
you
know
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
get
to
get
to
get
that
vehicle.
G
I
think
the
figures
are
higher
in
other
authorities
because
they
don't
have
livery
on
every
angle
that
mean
that
they've
got
a
higher
percentage
of
complaints
that
they
can't
investigate
because
they
there
aren't
enough
markers
on
the
outsides
of
those
vehicles,
I'm
not
sure
what
we're
doing
about
the
size
of
the
of
the
stickers.
Although
we
do
get
regular
correspondence
about
that,
so
I'll
look
at
that
once
if
the
size
is
comparable
with
other
with
other
authorities,.
A
Any
other
questions
comments
are
because
I
I'm
quite
keen
to
get
into
a
book
where
we
talk
about
potentially
what
the
potential
future
priorities
should
be
for
to
help
inform
myself
and
council
cooper.
So
any
other
questions
or
comments
on
so
far
on
this
point
before
we
go
on
to
a
more
general
conversation
around
that
direction,
yep.
B
Thanks
chair,
one
thing
that
concerns
me
a
comment
that
andrew
may
and
stop
me
if
you,
if
you
won't,
allow
it
and
it's
not
totally
relevant,
you
were
saying
that
the
number
of
licensees
and
leads
were
down.
They
could
have
gone
to
other
parts
of
the
industry
as
it
were.
You
know,
like
delivery
drivers.
The
question
I'm
asking
I'd
like
to
ask
if
it's
possible
is,
is
that
dropping
figure
the
same
over
west
yorkshire
or
is
it
worse
in
leeds?
B
Higher
standards
authority
and
we
could
be
losing
out
with
that,
and
that
might
be
something
we
need
to
play
into-
to
try
and
get
a
grip
on
so
that
we
don't
lose
all
of
our
drivers
said.
Is
it?
Is
it
they're
going
because
of
our
standards,
or
is
it
another
reason
that
there
isn't
the
work
and,
if
we're
losing
it
to
other
authorities
and
other
authorities
don't
raise
their
standards?
G
Yeah,
I
mean
it's
really
really
pertinent.
Council.
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
figures
that
I've
I
checked,
probably
the
end
of
september
in
terms
of
700
vehicles,
fewer
300
drivers,
fewer.
In
addition,
we've
got
another
600
plus
drivers
who
are
telling
us
at
the
moment
they're
not
working.
So
that's
a
significant
reduction,
it's
more
than
10
of
the
vehicle
fleet
and
it's
certainly
more
than
ten
percent
of
the
driver
fleet,
like
fifteen
percent
of
the
of
the
driver,
availability
and
again
the
feedback
from
the
trade
the
trade
reps
has
been.
G
They
don't
think
some
of
these
drivers
are
coming
back.
That's
not
quite
the
same
as
saying
those
drivers
are
not
coming
back
to
leads,
but
they're
coming
they're
going
to
move
somewhere
else
because
to
some
degree
the
work
we've
done
on
driver
training
and
suitability
has
meant
that
it's
probably
harder
and
more
time-consuming
to
start
again
in
another
authority
than
it
would
be
to
renew
in
lead
side.
I
genuinely
don't
think
that's
the
case.
G
I
think
the
position
possibly
across
west
yorkshire
is
that
everybody's
lost
some
some
capacity,
but
we
we're
meeting
at
the
end
of
next
week.
So
we'll
find
out-
and
I
specifically
put
that
item
on
the
agenda-
I
do-
I
do
think
that
in
some
authorities,
smaller
number
you
know,
700
vehicles
is,
and
it
would
be
an
enormous
number
to
other
licensing
authorities.
G
So
again,
I
think
we
would
be
hearing
about
that,
and
I
haven't
heard
the
the
majority
of
our
neighboring
authorities
have
got
a
sort
of
similar
sort
of
driver
profile
as
we
as
as
we
do
in
leeds,
I'm
not
sure
about
york
in
terms
of
that
york.
G
Is
it
it's
an
odd
and
we've
got
people
who
are
licensed
to
work
as
private
hire
drivers
in
lead
who
live
in
scarborough
who
live
on
the
other
side
of
york,
and
I
suspect,
possibly
they
might
work
in
europe
more
often
than
they
work
in
leeds.
So
I
don't
know,
but
I
think
those
numbers
will
be
more
around
the
margins
council.
I
do
think
that
we
are
looking.
You
know
it's
almost
the
equivalent
of
and
in
terms
of
intimate
lighting
becoming
empty
buildings.
G
We're
going
to
have
vehicles
that
are,
I
could
be
either
licensed.
They
could
be
allowed
to
to
expire
and
they'll.
Just
sit
on
drives
and
then
they'll
have
their
stickers
taken
off,
and
what
we
want
to
to
find
out
from
the
from
the
trade
is
whether
those
people
are
prepared
to
come
out.
They
plan
to
come
back
for
the
sort
of
winter
rush,
the
winter
shopping
christmas.
You
know,
so
we
yeah.
I
think
I
think
we
were
quite
pessimistic.
I
don't
think
all
of
those
drivers
and
vehicles
are
coming
back.
G
We've
got
a
backlog
of
about
100
new
people
who
want
to
train
to
drive
and
we'll
get
those
we'll
get.
Those
drivers
or
applicants
would
have
certainly
started
their
training
this
month
in
terms
of
that's
a
good
sign
that
arguably
a
hundred
or
so
who
would
want
to
do
that,
we
would
normally
train
about
50
people
a
month.
So
that's
that's
a
positive
sign.
G
It
would
be
concerning
if
there
were
no
no
people
wanting
to
apply-
and
I
know
certainly
the
the
the
hackney
associations
and
the
private
hair
operators-
I
could
see
vehicles
with
drivers
wanted
being
driven
around
in
need.
So
I
know
that
they're
looking
to
recruit
as
well,
but
in
some
cases
I
think
it
may
be
more
than
within
trade
changes.
People
are
moving
to
some
other
something.
B
Thanks
through
you
chair,
is
it
possible
to
ask
for
a
report
to
a
future
meeting
about
the
taxi
driver
numbers
that
we
have
within
leeds
the
ones
that
we're
losing
and
seeing
if
we
can
identify
where
we're
losing
and
what
percentage
of
taxes
in
leeds
are
being
driven
by
leads
license
holders,
as
opposed
to
those
from
outside
the
district?
A
Yeah,
I
I
think,
that's
through
a
question.
Well,
we
worked
into
our
work
program
because
I
appreciate
we've
got
a
lot
of
work
coming
up,
but
we'll
sit
down
and
we'll
have
a
chat
about
how
we
can
get
that
together
in
a
way,
that's
reasonable
to
offer
the
time
bearing
in
mind
we
are
going
to
be
having
a
very
busy
work
schedule
in
terms
of
the
conversation
with
having
trade,
but
it's
a
reasonable
request,
yeah,
absolutely
any
other
questions
or
comments
before,
because
the
recommendation
this
is.
A
Rather,
can
I
say
rather
slim
it
just
to
note
the
report
but,
as
I
said,
I
am
keen
to
hear
from
members
of
the
committee
are
the
six
areas
that
we
had
were
they
right?
Should
we
have
different
areas?
What
are
people's
fault
because,
as
I
said,
council
cooper
will
be
having
conversations
with
her
counterparts
I'll
be
having
conversations
with
my
counterparts.
A
Andrew
will
be
having
conversations
with
his
counterparts
so
to
have
a
flavor
from
the
elected
members
of
the
city
as
to
where
they
feel
prioritization,
some
of
some
of
them
dead
horses
that
we're
just
vlogging.
We
should
give
I'm
interested
in
finding
out
people's
opinions
so
I'll
open
up
to
the
floor
on
that
point,
for
people
to
pass
comment
on
those
views,
it's
a
council
meeting,
so
we
will
be
having
plenty
of
meetings
at
the
end
of
this
month
and
going
forward.
E
We
can
have
20
million
in
this
all
right
and
the
things
that
I've
come
across
from
your
some
of
your
counselors
are
really
brilliant
in
the
talking
sense,
but
will
the
trade
are
suffering
and
my
drivers?
I
cannot
get
drivers
from
my
acne
calories.
The
people
are
leaving
and
they're
going
to
practice
to
get
a
car
license
there
with
tinted
vehicles
and.
A
I
completely
agree:
we
need
to
work
through
these
you've
already
had
commitments
from
myself
and
counselor
cooper
that
we
will
sit
down
with
the
trade
as
often
as
you
like
to
go
through
these
things.
What
I
have
said
to
all
the
representatives,
those
meetings
is
what
I
do
not
want
to
have
is
in
these
meetings
is
a
free-for-all
anymore.
Things
must
be
done
logically
and
sensibly,
because
otherwise
we're
going
to
try
and
eat
an
elephant
in
this
room
every
single
time.
A
So
I
completely
agree
the
trade
meetings
have
been
booked
in
for
the
end
of
this
month.
I
will
be
now
chairing
those
trade
meetings
rather
than
an
officer
to
make
sure
there's
proper
oversight
and
strategic
look.
We
will
be
having
those
meetings.
Council
cooper
will
be
having
meetings
with
her
counterparts.
A
I
will
be
having
me
with
my
counterpart
and
I
will
meet
with
the
trade
every
week
if
it
likes,
because
in
the
end
I
do
want
a
sensible
working
relationship
that
have
been
issues
that
have
gone
on
for
far
too
long
and
in
this
committee
sometimes
we've
tried
to
resolve
absolutely
every
single
thing
at
every
single
meeting
and
you're
right,
it
hasn't
worked.
There
is
a
new
chair.
There
is
a
new
executive
member.
We've
been
really
open
and
frank
about
how
we
want
to
approach
things
and
that's
how
we
will
approach
those.
A
But
I
am
mindful
that
this
is
a
council
meeting
in
public,
not
a
public
meeting,
and
you
will
have
as
many
opportunities
as
you
want
with
me
to
raise
every
single
issue
and
we
will
work
through
them.
Sometimes
you'll
be
happy.
Sometimes
you
won't
and
sometimes
we
will
compromise,
but
that
has
been
mine
and
counselor
cooper's,
honest,
straightforward
position,
since
we've
been
coming
to
the
post
that
we're
in
that
we
will
be
open
up
front,
honest
and
have
those
difficult
conversations,
but
in
a
sensible
strategic
prioritized
way.
So
I
applaud
you
for
defending
your
drivers.
A
That's
what
you're
there
for
completely.
We
have
a
role
here
as
councillors
as
well,
and
we
need
to
go
through
that
process.
So
I'm
sorry
to
cut
you
off,
but
I
need
to
open
up
to
council,
because
I
want
to
hear
what
the
elected
members
who
represent
the
people,
the
city,
want
those
conversations
to
be
had
that
me
and
councillor
cooper
will
be
having
with
our
counterparts.
A
D
Thank
you
sure,
and
if
it's
not,
if
it's
not
suitable
for
licensing,
obviously
tell
me
I'm
I'm
new
to
licensing.
So
is
there
scope
to
look
at
the
sort
of
holistic
impact
of
these
policies?
Obviously
you
heard
me
talk
about
adult
social
care,
but
our
economy,
everything
because
it
does
impact.
Obviously,
taxes
do
impact
on
on
all
facets
of
well,
most
facets
of
life
in
the
city.
Thank
you.
I
don't
know
if
it
is
like
it's.
A
This
bit's
open
to
for
what,
because,
obviously
it's
going
to
inform
conversations
we're
going
to
potentially
have
so
there's,
probably
no
right
or
wrong
answer
at
this
particular
point.
Any
other
comments.
I
think
you
wanted
to
say
something
early
counselor
fellaini.
Are
you
willing
to
come
in
now,
yeah
yeah
by
all
means
yeah.
H
Thanks
paul
yeah,
it's
a
wee
bit
long
so
to
please
bear
with
me.
I
think
we
all
appreciate
the
regulatory
difficulties
that
private
hire,
licensing
and
and
cross-bordering,
of
course,
the
vle.
We
absolutely
no
doubts
about
that
and,
of
course,
there's
very
little.
We
can
do
about
it,
but
I
just
wanted
to
endorse
what
paul,
lisa
and
james
have
actually
said
and
perhaps
go
a
bit
further.
H
I
don't
think
anybody
here.
Anybody
in
the
trade
has
got
any
issues
at
all
with
the
principle
of
harmonization,
it's
all
about
the
safety
of
passengers
and
that's
what
the
whole
business
is
all
about.
But
I
do
have
issues
about
the
timing
and
about
the
practicalities.
H
The
main
issues
right
from
the
start,
irrespective
of
the
six
items
that
we've
that
have
been
discussed
for
the
last
four
years
or
so
have
been
always
been
around
driver
and
vehicle
conditions
and
we're
now
moving
towards
vehicle
conditions,
and
you
can
see
from
the
paper
how
many
difficulties
they're
going
to
be,
quite
apart
from
the
correspondence
that
we've
all
had
during
the
last
sort
of
week,
or
so,
I
think,
the
indication
this
week
the
kerkleys
are
taking
or
having
some
kind
of
consultation
about
their
policies.
H
I
have
no
idea
what
that
means,
but
does
that
actually
gel
with
the
harmonization
principles?
We've
got
sorry
I'll.
It's
a
rhetorical
question
paul
the
trade.
I
think,
as
we've
all
said,
has
been
very
hard
hit
by
colbit,
probably
as
bad
as
any
other
part
of
the
economy
in
leeds,
because
when
anything
is
hitting
leeds,
taxi
trade
is
probably
going
to
be
at
the
hardest.
H
So
whatever
is
decided
in
the
long
term,
we
don't
have
the
enforcement
officers
to
enforce
the
issues
anyway,
we've
all
heard
about
further
uber
encroachment
within
the
last
week
or
10
days
where
they
appear
to
be
inviting
their
drivers,
no
matter
where
they
live,
to
give
a
preference
on
where
they
want
to
work
and
given
the
fact
that
they
all
seem
to
end
up
in
the
question's
already
answered
itself.
H
H
It's
not
fair
to
our
to
our
drivers.
I
mention
uber,
but
I'm
sure
other
app
companies
are
doing
exactly
the
same
kind
of
thing.
H
There's
certainly
a
need
to
go
back
to
the
national
group
if
it
is
still
in
existence
to
talk
about
cross-bordering
and
the
pretty
much
imposition
of
app
at
tax
season
and
private
hire.
H
So
my
suggestion
is
this:
given
all
the
problems
that
the
trade
is
facing
at
the
moment
we've
mentioned
the
10
reduction
or
even
more
in
the
numbers.
Rick
has
discussed
how
we
can
actually
discuss
to
discover
whether
or
not
this
is
just
leads
or
effects
or
west
yorkshire.
Although
I
suspect
you
won't
be
able
to
to
do
that,
because
we
don't
know
about
the
rest
of
west
yorkshire.
H
H
It
took
the
introduction
of
a
new
chairman
of
this
particular
group
and
a
new
lead
officer,
a
new
lead
member,
rather
to
actually
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
on
it,
which
we're
now
doing
within
the
process
of
consultation
on
all
the
rest
of
it.
But
I
strongly
suspect
that
you're
not
going
to
have
any
form
of
agreement
on
the
convictions
policy
to
reduce
what
it
is
currently
to
what
we
have
suggested.
It
might
be
of
nine
nine
points
and
the
seven
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
H
So
my
proposal-
and
I'm
not
asking
this
to
be
voted
on
today
or
whatever,
and
I
did
try
to
discuss
this
with
debbie
this
morning,
but
unfortunately
she's
off
this
particular
week.
So
there
is
no
party
political
emphasis
on
this
at
all.
I've
discussed
it
informally
with
linda
this
morning
on
the
way
in
because
she
asked
me
a
couple
of
questions
about
one
or
two
of
the
items
on
the
agenda.
I
haven't
discussed
it
with
my
colleagues,
but
why
don't
we
pause
the
discussions
with
the
trade
until
the
trade
is
recovered?
H
Regarding
harmonization,
paul's
already
outlined
what
he
and
what
debbie
cooper
are
actually
going
to
be
doing
with
the
other
west
yorkshire
authorities,
and
it
does
seem
to
me
we're
going
back
to
the
drawing
board,
which
is
what
we
maybe
should
have
done
four
years
ago
and
no
matter
what
and
I
a
lot
of
respect
for
andrew.
But
I
I
I
will
disagree
with
you
profoundly
on
whether
we've
we've
made
much
progress
on
the
harmonization
issues,
given
that
it's
always
going
to
be
driver
and
vehicle
conditions
that
will
cause
the
problems
here.
C
Just
leading
on
from
what
councillor
flynn's
just
raised
about,
uber
and
and
the
impact
that
uber
has
unfair
competition,
that
uber
has
on
taxi
drivers
across
the
country
and
in
different
countries,
and
I've
mentioned
to
andrew
when
I
was
first
elected
about
looking
into
setting
up
establishing
a
taxi
driver
or
supporting.
I
know
it
wouldn't
be
us
for
to
do
it
would
be,
but
but
could
we
investigate
this
because
I
know
that
other
cities
have
have
started
to
do
that.
C
I
know
that
cardiff
has
one
and
preston
having
one,
and
the
advantage
of
that
is
that
the
taxi
drivers
could
have
an
app
similar
to
uber
and
it
would
but
but
unlike
uber,
that
that
cooperative
would
be
run
in
the
interests
of
taxi
drivers
in
leeds
and
it
would
meet
a
lot
of
the
the
objectives
that
andrew
mentioned
for
passengers
in
terms
of
having
being
able
to
you
know,
engage
local
taxi
drivers,
as
well
as
the
impact
on
the
economy
of
being
able
to
contract
with
the
leeds
taxi
driver
co-op,
whether
it
was
adult
social
care,
children's
schools,
etc.
C
So
the
benefit
to
the
local
economy
would
be
good.
The
benefit
to
taxi
drivers
of
running
that
company
for
themselves
for
their
own
profit.
So
could
could
we
expand
to
looking
across
that
across
with
partners
across
west
yorkshire.
A
I
think
that
one
is
definitely
in
the
political
realm,
so
that'll
be
for
one
and
me
and
councillor
cooper
to
maybe
discuss
slightly
off
outside
of
the
meeting,
because
that's
that's
getting
involved
in
the
market
directly,
rather
than
just
being
a
regulator,
but
it
I
I
I
take
the
point
as
a
member
of
the
co-op
party
as
well,
and
I
like
co-ops
in
general
andrew,
can
you
do
one?
Second,
you
can
mind
coming
back
to
on
on
the
consultation
bit
about
what
we're
doing
with
the
current
consultation.
A
Obviously,
councillor
flynn
raised
about
the
consultation.
I
want
to
make
sure
members
are
aware
actually
where
we
are
as
a
consultation.
It's
slightly
off
piste,
but
I
think
it's
a
pertinent
point.
After
what
council
flynn
said.
G
Yeah
thanks
chair
in
terms
of
the
consultation
on
the
suitability
that
we
discussed
possibly
three
meetings
ago
now:
suitability
minor
points,
the
consultation
ends
on
monday,
the
15th
of
november,
so
week
on
monday,
we'll
then
have
a
period
of
analysis
to
see.
I
know:
we've
got
a
large
we've
got
more
than
2
000
completed
questionnaires,
which
is
really
good.
We've
got
a
number
of
incomplete
questionnaires
and
people
needed
a
little
bit
of
guidance
online
to
go
back
and
finish
off.
The
survey.
G
We've
also
got
quite
a
lot
of
comments
on
social
media
that
maybe
aren't
quite
the
same
or
representation
aren't
quite
the
same
as
completed
surveys
and
we'll
have
to
work
out
how
to
take
that
into
account
so
that
week,
beginning
in
the
15th
be
quite
a
lot
of
meetings
between
us
and
the
communications
team,
or
the
consultation
and
feedback
team
and
legal
just
to
work
out
exactly
how
we
can
review
what
we've
got
back.
G
If
you
remember,
we
asked
a
very
specific
question,
which
is
following
the
working
group
following
the
other
work,
we're
considering
doing
this.
Do
you
agree
and
if
and
if
no
tell
us,
why
not?
G
So
it's
very
very
clear
the
previous
consultation
on
suitability,
I
think,
had
more
than
30
questions
and
I
think
we've
got
a
has
learnt
a
very
a
very
clear
lesson
to
have
shorter
consultation
questions.
G
Interestingly,
it
was
30
questions
that
were
the
same
across
all
six
authorities,
so
something
that
we
would
at
least
harmonized
on
that.
So
so
the
consultation
will
will
probably
have
the
findings
mid
late
november.
I
think,
with
timetable
to
discuss
it
john
in
january,
at
licensing
committee
and
then
subsequently
at
executive
board
following
the
discussion
here
in
terms
of
what
we've
got
and
again
the
the
the
papers
for
licensing
committee.
We
would
also
then
have
the
face-to-face
trade
meetings
up
and
running
as
well.
G
If
we're
aiming
for
one
every
three
months,
we
would
be
having,
I
think,
we're
looking
at
the
first
and
second
of
december,
so
maybe
first
first
and
you
know
first
and
second
of
march,
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
other
meeting
regular
discussion,
and
I
would
have
thought
that
the
trade
meeting
as
well
would
focus
very
much
on
current
issues
and
I
think
and
other
issues
that
are
so
longer
term,
either
good
ideas
or
need
evaluation
council
of
downs.
G
One
of
the
suggestions
that
you
asked
for
I'm
sure
is
on
open
data
somewhere
in
terms
of
our
month
by
month,
figures
I
guarantee
it
won't
be
for
every
authority
in
west
yorkshire,
but
I
can.
I
can
probably
lay
my
hands
on
some
of
that
information
very
quickly
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
the
the
the
timing.
Then
it
will,
it
will
come
back.
It
will
probably
hopefully
have
a
chairs
brief
early
early
january
on
the
consultation
on
suitability.
A
So
I
mean
so
far
from
the
conversation
we've
got.
We've
got
basically
to
go
back
and
review
what
harmonization
looks
like,
which
is
pretty
much
what
my
myself
and
council
cooper
intend
to
do
with
our
colleagues.
I've
got
out
of
that
also
looking
basically
vehicle
stand
has
been
the
big
sticking
point
in
turn,
and
I
just
want
to
gauge
from
mem's
art,
because
it's
not
being
clear,
I
remember
saying
they
feel
that
that's
an
impossible
task.
A
Are
they
saying
it's
something
that
we
should
have
an
extra
push
on
because
we've
mentioned
it,
but
we've
not.
Actually
I've
not
actually
got
a
really
clear
kind
of
yay
try
and
have
another
go
at
it
or
no
focus
on
something
else.
So
I'd
be
interested
to
get
a
flavor
of
what
members
are
actually
thinking
about.
That
does
is
the
big
contentious
one
and
I'm
sure
it
will
form
quite
a
large
part
of
the
conversations
myself
and
council
cooper
will
be
having
with
our
counterparts.
G
I'm
quite
happy
to
share
this.
After
the
after
the
meeting
I
mentioned
greater
manchester's
recent
consultation,
that's
11
authorities
and
they've
got
four
themes.
Their
themes
are
drivers,
vehicles,
operators
and
licensing
authorities,
and
that's
that's
things
like
service
standard
turnaround
turnaround
time,
so
each
one
has
got
probably
three
or
four
bullet
points
underneath
it's
still
not
trying
to
cover
everything.
I'd
absolutely
agree
with
council
flynn
that
one
of
the
areas
that
I
think
we
think
is
missing
on
the
west
yorkshire
work
is
the
operator
conditions
particularly
cross
border,
but
particularly
the
lever.
G
G
I
think,
but
particularly
in
terms
of
the
the
greater
manchester
united
they've
got
a
balance
between
those
four
areas
and
it
probably
indicates
a
degree
of
engagement,
consultation
with
the
trade
as
well
to
say:
why
does
it
take
nine
months
to
get
licensed
in
this
authority
in
three
months
to
get
licensed
in
this
authority?
So
that's
not
licensed
shopping
to
evade
regulation,
that's
to
do
with
maybe
the
capacity
or
the
it
or
the
or
the
customer
service
function
of
each
of
the
authorities.
So
just
to
have
that
discussion,
just
maybe
chair.
G
If
you
want
to
check
back
with
with
members
and
say
you
know
as
part
of
the
discussion
what
other
city
regions
are
doing,
it
feels
like
a
more
balanced
approach
and
I
think
I
think,
probably
our
approach
based
on
2016.
It
was
very
strongly
skewed
towards
the
drivers.
It's
dr,
you
know.
If
you're
talking
about
risks
to
vulnerable
people,
the
number
one
risk
would
be
arguably
from
a
driver,
who's
not
fit
and
proper
for
whom
they've
chosen,
tax
or
private
higher
driving
as
a
means
of
gaining
access
to
vulnerable
people.
G
Number
two
would
be
drivers
who
turn
a
blind
eye
to
something
inappropriate
going
on
between
two
passenger
passengers.
Number
three
might
be
on
road
worthy
vehicles
in
in
terms
of
those
in
terms
of
those
areas
of
risk,
even
though
the
numbers
are
very,
very
small.
I
think
I
think,
in
terms
of
that,
so
so
quite
interested
in
having
that
discussion
about
as
ever
to
do
with
to
do
with
the
funding
for
regional
development.
The
north
west
seems
to
get
more
funding
and
more
attention.
G
We
invited
the
central
government
body
to
come
and
look
at
leads
and
they
didn't
do
and
then,
in
their
final
report,
they
put
a
whole
map
in
of
greater
manchester
talking
about
what
greater
manchester's
doing
so,
particularly,
I
think
we
can
have
the
discussion
of
ideas
and
it
might
be
worthwhile
as
looking
at
other
areas,
but
I
think
particularly
in
terms
if
we,
if
we
are
concerned
and
interested
in
cross-border
one
of
the
areas
we
might
want
to
talk
about,
is
what's
the
level
we
we
would
like
on
operators,
but
also
what's
the
lever
that
would
like
neighboring
authorities
to
do
bearing
in
mind
it's
about
their
vehicles.
A
I
think
a
helpful
intervention
and
I
don't,
I
think
it's
prohibited
in
the
leads.
I
don't
think
any
of
us
like
being
out
there
by
manchester.
So,
yes,
I
think
that
would
be
frozen.
That
would
be
helpful
to
use
if
members
would
find
it
helpful
to
you,
because
I
think
it
does
give
a
flavor
of
what
other
parts
of
the
country
are
doing.
Bearing
in
mind
also
there's
a
the
department
of
transport
are
slowly
looking
at
trying
to
cover
the
gaps.
A
A
What
myself
and
council
cooper
intend
to
do
anyway,
which
is
to
go
away
and
speak
to
the
other
authorities
find
out
where
we
are
find
out
where
they
are
and
actually
look
at
what
actually
the
priorities
are
going
forward,
and
it
may
be
a
more
balanced
approach
like
manchester.
It
may
be
that
actually,
they
have
particular
emphasis
that
they
want
to
look
at
there's
a
bit
of
authority
to
authority
negotiations
to
where
those
focuses
are,
but
I
think
and
then
again
just
to
give
reassurance
to
the
trader.
We
are
we
generally
do
understand.
A
It's
about
how
we
get
today
in
a
sensible
place
again
without
trying
to
eat
that
elephant
all
at
once
to
use
that
expression,
because
it
hasn't
really
got
us
anywhere
and
it's
we've
got
some
things
done,
but
there's
a
lot
more
to
talk
about,
so
I'm
getting
that
mining
council
of
cooper's
direction
of
travel,
which
is
to
have
those
conversations
is,
is
what
the
committee
is
comfortable
with
unless
someone
says
otherwise
and
that
will
by
the
signs
we
go
away
and
inform
a
slightly
more
oh
yeah,
councillor.
E
Yeah,
I'm
just
going
to
broadly
agree
actually
chair,
because
it
just
seems
to
me
that
taking
councillor
flynn's
suggestion
of
a
pause
in
a
way
by
the
time
these
consultations
have
taken
place
and
further
discussions,
and
so
on.
It's
going
to
be
two
three
four
months
down
the
line
by
which
time
society
will
have
normalized
even
more
so
things
will
be
much
more
back
to
normal
by
then.
C
E
E
It
seems
to
me
that
we're
almost
working
too,
something
which
is
more
certainly
not
just
regionally
based
but
more
nationally,
based,
in
other
words,
the
areas
that
will
impact
on
our
city
and
on
the
trade
within
our
city,
and
therefore
one
would
hope
that
you
will
be
getting
a
better
overall
approach
to
it,
something
which
is
more
pragmatic,
which
reflects
the
needs
and
the
safety
aspects
of
it.
But,
on
the
other
hand,
is
working
in
a
more
pragmatic
way
towards
a
solution.
H
G
The
look
the
law
is
the
same.
We
should
only
refuse
a
license
if
we're
not
satisfied
that
someone
is
fit
proper,
so
that
would
be
the
individual
who's
the
operator.
We
can,
of
course
place
conditions
if
there's
something
that
we're.
G
We
have
a
concern
about
or
to
use
the
same
analogy
not
satisfied
about,
and
that
was
very
much
if
you
remember
when
we
talked
about
having
a
review
of
operator
conditions,
cross-border
use
of
smartphone
apps
use
of
these
taxi
kiosks
that
don't
have
a
full
booking,
but
they're
used
by
private
hire
operators.
So
there
absolutely
is
remit
for
us
to
have
additional
conditions
on
some
operators,
but
now
the
only
reason
we
would
refuse
someone
an
operator
is
that
we're
not
satisfied
they're
fit
proper.
A
Do
we
have
any
further
comments
or
questions
before
I
ask
us
to
note
the
report
formally?
No,
are
we
okay
to
note
the
report
for
this
item
if
you
can
show
your
hands?
A
Thank
you
very
much
and
that
again
thank
you,
because
it's
going
to
inform
very
useful
conversations
to
myself
and
counselor
cooper.
So
I
appreciate
that
very
much
just
quickly
going
on
to
the
rest
of
the
agenda.
There
is
one
bit
missing,
which
is
the
forward
works
program
on
my
little
script.
A
So
if
people
want
to
note
the
forward
work
program
at
the
back
of
your
packs
again,
if
there
are
any
other
suggestions
bearing
mine
is
probably
going
to
be
quite
a
lot
of
work
going
on
the
taxing
private
hire
section
after
the
consultation,
please
do
feed
those
in
and
a
j
item
agenda
number
10
date
and
time
of
the
next
meeting
to
know
that
the
next
meeting
will
take
place
on
tuesday,
the
14th
of
december
2021
at
10
a.m
in
leeds
civic
hall.
That
concludes
the
business
for
today's
meeting.