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A
Good
morning,
everyone
and
welcome
to
the
meeting
of
the
licensing
committee.
My
name
is
council
paul
ray
and
I
will
be
sharing
today's
meeting.
Could
I
remind
everyone
that
today's
meeting
has
been
live
streamed
onto
the
city
council
website,
so
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
the
need
to
be
present
and
to
those
who
are
watching
either
live
or
the
recording
welcome
to
viewing
this
meeting.
A
Can
I
now
invite
members
and
officers
to
introduce
themselves
and
mute
their
microphone
once
they've
done,
and
what
I
will
do
is
I
will
go
in
this
direction
around
the
table,
so
stand
with
rob
and
then
we'll
go
in
that
direction
back
good
morning.
My
name
is
robert
brown.
I'm
the
legal
advisor
to
the
chair
today.
C
C
Thank
you
chair
under
a
general
item
one.
There
were
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
two.
There
are
no
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press
of
public
item
three
lay
items.
I
am
unaware
of
any
items
of
business
agenda.
Item
4.
Could
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
any
interests
they
may
have
I'll
assume.
That's
none
under
agenda
item
5,
apologies
for
absence
castle,
alice's
marcher.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
So
item
agenda
and
six
minutes
to
the
previous
meeting
held
on
the
2nd
of
november
2021.
Do
members
accept
these
minutes
as
a
true
and
correct
record
I'll
assume
they're
correct
unless
indicated
otherwise
that
will
sounds
correct.
Then
item
agenda
number
six
matters
arising
from
the
minutes.
Are
there
any
matters
arising
from
the
minutes?
If
anyone
would
like
to
comment
if
there
are
no
comments,
I
assume
that
we're
all
happy
with
that.
A
E
So
I'm
going
to
talk
you
through
the
report
and
then
indicate
maybe
the
key
areas
you
might
want
to
discuss
in
terms
of
the
provisions
in
the
policy.
So
the
council,
in
its
role
as
the
licensing
authority
for
the
huntington
private
high
trade,
it's
got
a
overwhelming
responsibility
to
ensure
the
safety
of
the
public.
E
The
report
today
presents
the
licensing
committee,
a
collated,
condensed,
simplified
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
policy
document
for
approval.
The
the
council
has
not
up
to
now,
unless
it
is
in
the
distant
past,
had
provided
a
single
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
policy
document.
The
requirement
to
produce
that
has
actually
stemmed
from
the
department
for
transport,
statutory
taxi
and
private
hire
standards
published
last
year
and
also
developed
on
the
consultation
for
the
for
the
previous
few
years.
So
the
council
has
previously
endorsed
many
individual
policies
introduced
over
decades.
E
I
think
the
list
of
supporting
documents
below
this
policy
is
over
22
documents
and
over
200
separate
pages,
which
we
haven't
produced
in
the
pack
for
today,
but
we
can
certainly
develop
and
share
with
you
and
you
can
see
where
the
documents
are.
We
wanted
to
focus
today
on
a
single
and
a
single
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
policy
for
the
council.
E
It's
really
important
for
for
members
to
note
that,
even
though
this
is
dated
december
2021,
this
policy
introduces
no
new
policy
or
regulatory
content,
even
though
there
might
be
things
actually
as
a
city
we
would,
we
would
want
to
discuss.
I
want
to
consult
on
the
report
indicates
a
sort
of
an
outline
for
a
policy
review
timetable,
and
we
would
then
update
the
relevant
sections
of
this
single
policy
together
with
the
more
detailed
conditions
documents
further
down,
but
that
would
only
be
after
the
usual
consultation
mechanisms
and
member
approval.
E
E
So
moving
on
so
on
to
page
10,
so
the
the
the
impact
this
proposal
will
have
the
the
aim
is
for
this
policy
not
to
have
any
negative
impact
in
terms
of
raising
raising
new
concerns.
It
produces
no
policy
items.
It
does
not
make
any
changes
to
existing
policies.
It
simply
collects
existing
licensing
policies
into
one
document,
but
it's
not
the
same
in
neighboring
authorities.
Other
neighboring
authorities
have
used
the
opportunity
to
update
or
refresh
certain
areas
of
their
single
licensing
policy
if
they
already
had
one
or
particularly
in
line
with
other
methods.
E
E
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
positive
outcomes,
it
provides
some
confidence
that
there
is
maybe
one
main
document
that
people
can
refer
to
to
explain
why
the
council
does
what
it
does
in
terms
of
section
three.
The
consultation
and
engagement,
the
national
consultation
on
on
on
the
the
statutory
tax
in
private
higher
standards
was
completed
in
2019.
That's
with
the
that's
with
the
department
of
transport
and
the
council,
pointed
trade
members
and
and
stakeholders
to
that.
E
To
that
consultation,
the
contents
of
the
the
contents
of
the
single
policy
have
each
undergone
the
relevant
consultations
when
each
of
the
separate
policies
were
were
discussed,
which
is
why
we
don't
think
we
need
to
consult
again
on
something
that
simply
reiterates
what
we've
done
separately
for
minor
changes
or
updates.
We
don't
expect
the
council
would
need
to
consult,
but
would
make
the
necessary
administrative
or
operational
decisions,
and
they
might
that
might
just
involve
a
minor
clarification
of
wording
for
any
significant
changes.
E
The
council
will
need
to
engage
and
consult
with
a
wide
range
of
trade
stakeholders
and
maybe
other
other
licensing
authorities
as
well.
I
think,
particularly
in
terms
of
the
discussion
around
regional
issues,
or
particularly
the
areas
that
our
licensing
approach,
maybe
can't
touch
in
terms
of
things
like
out
of
out
of
town
or
across
border
there.
It
would
be
definitely
relevant
to
strength
and
communication
with
other
core
cities
who
may
be
in
a
similar
position
to
lead
the
centre
of
the
city
region
as
well
as
as
well
as
neighbouring
authorities.
E
Resource
implications
we've
said:
there's
none
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
that.
We've
we've
developed
this
clearly
when
the
the
policies
are
are
changed
or
updated.
There
may
well
be
resource
implications,
okay,
legal
implications,
the
statutory
vehicle
standards
don't
alter
any
key
uk
legislation,
nor
do
they
make
any
new
legislation.
E
Okay,
key
risks,
the
main
risk
we've
got
is
really
about
protecting
the
public.
The
importance
of
ensuring
that
the
licensing
regime
protects
vulnerable
people
cannot
be
over
cannot
be
overestimated,
and
I
think
particularly,
it's
very
refreshing
to
see
it
in
statutory
guidance,
particularly,
and
it
was
there
again
in
the
in
the
suitability,
the
national
support
for
the
national
suitability
approach
as
well.
E
I
wasn't
going
to
go
into
great
detail
in
terms
of
the
proposal
supporting
the
council's
three
pillars.
I
think
what
I'd
emphasize
is.
Yes,
we've
got
to
focus
on
keeping
people
safe.
We've
also
got
a
focus
in
providing
high
quality
public
services,
getting
services
right
first
time
and
improving
customer
satisfaction.
It's
absolutely
a
challenge
during
during
lockdown,
but
also
a
broader
contribution
to
priorities
such
as
reducing
crime
levels
and
their
impact
across
leads.
E
Tackling
antisocial,
behavior
and
reducing
vehicle
emissions,
in
addition
to
the
safeguarding
priority,
we've
already
mentioned:
okay
and
then
sort
of
options,
time
scales
are
measuring
success
and
then
I'll
I'll
talk
you
through
the
report
and
then
we'll
come
back
to
the
timetable
for
for
timetable
for
implementation.
So
I'll
talk
through
the
policy
and
then
we'll
go
to
the
timetable
for
implementation.
E
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
the
council
did
consider
consulting
on
some
possible
changes
from
existing
policies
and
conditions,
which
is
a
step
other
authorities
have
taken.
However,
owing
to
representation
received
about
the
council's
previous
consultations,
I
think
we've
suggested
that
only
one
consultation
at
a
time,
very
careful
consultation
may
be
taking
extra
steps
to
make
sure
that
consultation
takes
place
and
therefore
we
decided
to
issue
the
policy
clarifying
the
current
policies
and
conditions
and
propose
an
indicative
timetable
rather
than
start
another.
E
I
very
much
hope
that
licensing
committee
members
and
councillors
will
have
one
definitive
policy
document
covering
broad
licensing
themes
which
should
better
aid
understanding
of
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
rather
than
what
might
be
seen
as
sort
of
narrow,
multiple
separate
conditions
documents
and
then.
Thirdly,
we
expect
that
our
stakeholders
will
have
one
definitive
policy
document
covering
the
broad
licensing
themes
which
should
better
aid
understanding
of
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
rather
than
multiple
separate,
separate
documents
as
well.
So
hopefully
this
this
is
a
measure
that
should
should
improve
understanding.
E
I
think
we
will
get
some
feedback
back
from
people
saying.
Why
doesn't
it
include
such
and
such
and
we'll
have
to
make
sure
that
we
address
that
then
in
our
in
our
timetable,
going
forward
before
I
go
on
to
the
timetable
of
invitation?
Is
it
worth
us
just
walking
through
the
the
draft
policy
itself?
So
you
can
see,
see
what
it
includes
and
I
think
particularly
we'll
come
back
to
the
to
the
timetable.
E
A
If
you
briefly
want
to
kind
of
step
through
it,
I
I'm
hoping
colleagues
are
relatively
able
to
understand
the
basic
format
as
it
is.
But
if
you
want
to
quickly
go
through
just
for
the
benefit
of
the
public
potentially
watching
later,
but
and
then
we'll
we'll
come
on
to
the
substantive
part,
which
will
be
the
indicative
reviews.
E
Yeah,
okay,
I
think
it's
helpful
to
start
to
start
really
with
the
with
the
the
outline
of
the
policies,
the
outline
the
policy
on
page
18
of
your
packs.
So
this
is
always
a
chat
chapter
heading
really,
and
this
just
outlined
and
again
this.
This
deliberately
mirrors
the
the
national
standards
from
the
developer
transport,
so
we're
using
exactly
the
same
chapter
headings:
administering
the
licensing
regime
gathering
and
sharing
information
decision,
making,
driver
licensing,
vehicle
licensing
operator,
licensing
compliance
and
enforcement
fees,
and
then
on
the
back.
E
We've
provided
definitions
and
a
list
of
appendices
and
the
appendices
are
very
broadly
each
of
the
separate
conditions
documents.
We've
got
seven
separate
conditions
documents
I
think
for
vehicles.
We've
got
multiple
conditions
documents,
for
example,
on
things
like
dbs
checks,
it's
not
just
drivers
that
need
a
dbs
check.
Other
people
need
a
dbs
check
as
well,
so
particularly
that
I
think
you
can
see
from
the
table
of
contents.
We've
provided
in
about
three
or
four
pages
for
each
section,
summary
of
each
of
the
key
levers
we've
got
in
terms
of
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing.
E
So
why
we
administered
the
licensing
regime,
who
we
share
information
with
who
we
gather
it
from
how
we
make
decisions
and
then
into
the
to
the
to
the
to
the
specifics
around
issuing
initial
licenses
and
then
renewing
licenses
for
drivers,
vehicles,
operators
think,
arguably,
for
the
first
time
chapter
eight
talks
about
compliance
and
enforcement,
which
is
a
summary
of
what
we
provided
in
in
lots
and
lots
of
separate
documents.
But
for
there
in
one
place,
we've
got
three
or
four
pages
just
on
compliance
and
enforcement.
E
So
on
so
it's
a
it's
a
significant
piece
of
work,
probably
taken
some
time
from
taxing
private
licensing
to
reduce
it
down.
We
probably
want
to
want
to
mirror
every
single
condition
in
every
detail.
We
think
we've
covered
exactly
the
main
points
in
every
section.
The
main
reason
why
we
do
what
we
do
it
doesn't
cover
in
every
detail,
every
eventuality
of
what
we
might,
what
action
we
might
take.
E
A
Thank
you
for
that,
andrew
and
just
before
I
bring
in
council
gaffer,
I
think,
just
to
kind
of
clarify
colleagues.
This
is
bringing
in
no
new
policies.
It's
not
changing
anything.
It's
a
bit
of
a
tidy
up
exercise
and
he's
terms
in
accessibility.
We've
already
tasked
taxing
private
higher
licensing
to
go
to
the
council's
communications
team
to
make
sure
it
meets
the
clear
english
guidelines,
there's
obviously
reference
to
other
languages
and
interpretation
at
the
back,
and
obviously,
as
andrew
has
clearly
said,
this
is
not
the
definitive
set
of
policies.
A
This
is
to
make
a
very
quick,
easy
introduction,
so
that
people
can
find
those
more
definitive
policies,
particularly
as
we
start
to
go
through
the
journey
of
reviewing
them
in
the
the
next
kind
of
part
of
this
discussion.
So
just
for
clarity
for
the
clarity
of
the
trade
and
the
public
may
be
watching
at
home.
This
is
introducing
no
new
policies.
It's
really
a
tidying
up
exercise
in
line
with
the
statutory
guidance
from
the
department
of
transport,
councillor
gathway.
D
D
There
should
only
be
three
things
small
things
like
that,
but
it
is
peppered
through,
and
this
does
need
to
be
sorted
now.
I
do
have
a
couple
of
questions
for
wider
clarification
if
I
may
I'll
do
them
one
at
a
time.
Let
me
just
find
the
page
on
our
page
29,
the
policy
page
13,
it
says
lead.
City
council
has
amended
its
constitution
to
give
reciprocal
enforcement
powers
to
authorized
enforcement
areas
of
the
following
authorities
and
then
there's
a
list
of
the
authorities
now.
D
A
D
D
Thirty
seven,
our
page
37
paragraph
6.3,
the
final
paragraph
it
says
additionally,
some
vehicles
designs
are
not
appropriate
for
people
who
may
suffer
from
a
wide
range
of
spinal
visual
ambulance
or
mobility
disabilities.
Well,
this
is
clear,
but
where
does
that
actually
get
us?
Does
it
mean
that
certain
vehicles
for
designs
would
never
be
allowed?
Does
it
mean
they
might
be
allowed
in
some
cases,
because
some
people
might
only
be
able
to
use
one
particular
one
I.e
wheelchair
accessible
vehicles?
Does
that
mean
they
all
have
to
be
wheelchair
accessible?
D
I
don't
think
it
does,
but
it
doesn't
seem
very
clear
to
me.
Maybe
it
does
to
others,
then,
at
the
top
paragraph
6.5
on
our
page
38,
it
says,
with
over
51
of
hackney
carriage
vehicles,
wheelchair
accessible.
It
seems
to
me
that
that
is
going
to
change
and
it
could
change
next
month.
So
I
suggest
that
that
particular
phrase
might
go
unless
you
can
tell
me
a
particular
reason
why
it
should
stay
because
it
could
become
55
percent
or
it
could
become
49.
D
In
the
the
chart
vehicle
age
criteria
with
the
ultra
low
emission
vehicles,
this
is
on
our
page
39.
It
says
inspection
at
seven
or
eight
years.
Well,
why?
Seven
or
eight
I
mean?
Surely
it
should
be
one
or
the
other
unless
there's
a
reason
why
this
is
a
movable
feast
and
it
it
says,
also
in
the
additional
notes,
the
bullet
point
ones
at
the
bottom
right.
All
vehicles
must
also
be
there's
a
list.
It's
not
totally
grammatical
and
then
the
last
point
says
service
history.
D
All
vehicles
must
always
be
service
history.
Now
I'm
assuming
this
means
have
their
service
history
available
at
all
times,
or
something
like
that.
But
it's
just
not
totally
clear.
I
realized
the
difficulties
in
putting
all
this
together
from
200
all
these,
these
enormous
numbers
of
policies
and
so
on.
So
it's
just
I
I
do
need
to
be
clear
about
those
points.
Thank
you.
A
Yeah,
if
you
want
to
question
just
quickly,
I
think
in
terms
of
the
inspection
at
seven
or
eight,
that's
probably
a
policy
man
that's
being
copied
across
rather
than
the
grammatical
error,
so
that
one
will
come
under
the
when
we
discuss
potential
policy
reviews.
But
if
you
want
to
go
on
the
other
points
andrew,
if
you
don't
mind.
E
Thank
you
chair,
so
in
order,
yes,
they
are,
they
are
distracting.
I
will
need
to
sit
down
with
graham
to
work
out
if
we
have,
if
graham,
has
honestly
transcribed
across
poorly
written
content
from
earlier
or
it's
new,
poorly
written
contact
from
us.
In
terms
of
that,
I
I
very
strongly
suspect
the
seven
or
eight
years
is
because
of
some
ambiguity
about
when
a
policy
was
implemented
and
how
it
applies.
So
I
think,
graham
particularly
had
to
ride
two
horses
between
accurately
reflected.
E
What's
what's
already
there,
even
if
we
prefer,
it
said
something
different,
we
will
go
through.
Graham,
we
will
go
through
the
typos
to
make
sure
that
there
aren't,
in
some
cases,
they're
distracting.
In
some
cases
they
might
be
confusing
in
terms
of
reciprocal
powers.
That's
page
13.,
so
without
I
just
need
to
tweak
this
back
so
that
I've
got
it
so
page
13..
E
If
we
didn't
have
reciprocal
powers
in
place,
the
powers
that
our
licensing
officers
would
have
our
enforcement
officers
would
have
on
street
would
be
minimal
in
terms
of
any
vehicle
that
is
not
licensed
in
lead
and
obviously,
in
terms
of
leads
it's
the
largest
busiest
nighttime
economy.
We've
got
two
or
three
of
the
largest
universities
in
west
yorkshire.
We
have
thousands
of
journeys
made
from
outside
leads
into
leeds
every
year.
E
Let
me
go
to
the
reciprocal
arrangement,
so
the
reciprocal
arrangements
don't
give
enforcement
officers
full
powers
so
leads
leads
officers,
don't
have
full
enforcement
powers
over
bradford
vehicles
or
all
the
other
vehicles
listed
there.
What
that,
what
it
does
do
it
gives
them
the
authority
to
inspect
the
vehicle.
E
Talk
to
the
driver
provide
what
we
would
call
a
compliance
check
on
street
and
warn
or
give
the
driver
a
ticket
if
there
is
something
that
is
dangerous
or
a
concern,
and
that
might
be
something
as
straightforward
as
a
a
brake
light
out
or
something
like
that
or
a
tire
in
in
dangerous
condition.
I
would
have
to
check
and
double
check,
but
if
an
enforcement
officer
saw
a
driver
who
was
not
wearing
a
badge
in
leads,
they
need
to
wear
a
badge
and
they
could
be
suspended.
E
So
without
those
reciprocal
powers,
our
enforcement
officers
have
minimal
authority
on
street
against
vehicles
not
licensed
in
leeds
with
the
reciprocal
powers
they
have
there's
sort
of
halfway
towards
that
we
would.
We
would
very
strongly
encourage
every
licensing
authority,
their
officers
to
have
national
power
so,
irrespective
of
where
that
vehicle
is
licensed,
those
officers
are
actually
authorized
to
take
steps
to
to
check
that
that
vehicle
is
safe.
That
doesn't
mean
those
vehicles
need
to
meet
leads
conditions.
E
So
we've
spoken
about
things
like
tinted
windows:
they
wouldn't
have
the
power
to
say
leeds
policy
is
windows,
can't
be
tinted
above
a
certain
level.
You
can't
drive
in
leads,
I'm
you
know
suspending
your
vehicle,
so
we've
got
sort
of
halfway
powers
in
terms
of
reciprocal
powers,
types
of
vehicle-
it's
a
really
challenging
one.
So
this
is
page
37.
If
I've
understood
that
right.
E
In
terms
of
that.
So
what
we're
trying
to
say?
We
want
a
range
of
beer
because
they
all
need
to
be
safe
and
suitable.
If
the
policy
didn't
say
this,
it
might
say
in
more
detail
somewhere
else.
Is
we
discuss
with
the
council's
access
committee
and
we
get
a
we
get
a
profile
of
people
getting
into
and
out
of
vehicles.
E
We've
got
a
current
issue
at
the
moment
about
vehicles
where
the
middle
seat
in
the
back
is
not
really
wide
enough.
It's
supposed
to
be
16
inches
and
it
isn't
in
terms
of
it's
also
high
up,
so
it
blocks
the
view
of
the
the
the
driver
through
the
through
through
the
rear
mirror.
So
it's
difficult
to
phrase
that
in
that
way,
but
we
need
every
vehicle
to
like.
So,
for
example,
we've
got
safe
and
suitable
for
people,
we
want
to
say
safe,
comfortable
and
suitable
for
vehicles.
So
that's
the
reason.
E
Yes,
I'm
afraid
it's
it's.
It's
inherited
from
the
previous
more
detailed
vehicle
policy
in
terms
of
over
the
next
page
51,
that's
one
of
the
areas
where
the
council
has
got
a
very
strong
provision,
so
it
would
only
be
if
the
the
owners
of
those
carriage
vehicles
said.
I
no
longer
want
to
work
as
a
hackney
carriage
vehicle
proprietor.
E
E
What
we're
very
clear
about
is
it's
either,
seven
years
from
when
it
was
first
manufactured
or
when
it
was
first
registered
in
the
uk,
it's
not
seven
years
from
when
it
was
first
licensed
as
a
as
a
vehicle
and
sometimes
there's
a
discrepancy
between
when
a
vehicle
was
first
licensed,
particularly
for
imported
vehicles,
and
things
like
that.
I
think
that's
the
reason
for
the
the
broader
wording
unless
you've
got
anything
else
to
add.
Graham.
B
B
It
has
been
an
extremely
difficult
document
to
put
together,
as
you
can
appreciate.
Well,
you
have
appreciated
thanks
very
much
in
the
text
with
regard
to
the
vehicles,
it
does
say
here
beyond
seven
or
eight
years
of
age
as
well
as
the
chart,
but
I
will
check
on
that
and
we
have
carefully
transposed
from
some
quite
old
documents,
the
the
conditions
and
bylaws
and
such
like
into
something
that
hopefully,
is
easier
to
read
and
of
course
it.
B
A
Just
before
I
bring
you've
got
something
else:
sorry,
andrew!
No!
That's
when
you're
talking
about
between
everything,
okay,
just
to
reiterate
just
to
colleagues
and
to
the
public
watching
home.
This
is
just
accumulating
everything
we've
already
got
to
that
sense,
and
I
think
we
all
accept,
particularly
as
we
start
discussing
potential
policy
reviews
and
things
like
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
tidying
up.
I
think
we
all
accept
that
really.
C
Thank
you,
chair
and,
and
just
in
passing,
I
think,
councillor
gathway
is
absolutely
right
about
the
language
it's,
but
there
are
two
reasons
for
this.
First
of
all,
it's
it's
wrong
that
a
document
should
be
published,
which
is
ungrammatical,
but
secondly,
and
arguably
more
importantly,
it
can
alter
the
meaning
of
what's
being
written
and
make
it
unclear
and
therefore
make
it
difficult
in,
let's
say
a
magistrate's
court
or
a
court
of
law,
some
description
to
apply
the
law
properly.
C
So
I
think
it's
a
really
important
point,
but
on
a
similar
theme,
really
on
page
37,
the
second
paragraph
mentions
that
the
vehicle
must
hold
the
full
whole
vehicle
type
european
approval.
Does
that
still
apply,
or
is
there
some
other
standard
now,
because
we're
not
beholden
to
european
standards?
Now?
Are
we
and
I
just
wonder
whether
that's
been
transported
across
and
whether
it
should
say
something
slightly
differently
and
then
finally,
at
the
second
but
final
paragraph?
C
Well,
the
final
paragraph,
six
of
six
four
six
point:
four:
it
talks
about
the
the
number
of
vehicles
will
fluctuate
over
time
and
obviously,
as
we
know,
it's
the
number
of
vehicles
has
gone
down
or
appears
to
have
gone
down.
Certainly
the
number
of
drivers
has
gone
down
over
the
last
year
or
so
and
from
personal
experience.
I
I've
several
times
had
a
taxi
booked
well
in
advance
and
it's
all
been
confirmed
and
then
when
it
doesn't
come
and
you
ring
up
and
say
where
is
it
they
say?
A
Just
before
I
come
down
to
just
on
the
live
point
council
blue,
clear,
I
mean
dandruffing
said
that
the
council's
job
is
not
to
regulate
the
the
market
per
se.
Obviously
these
are
ongoing
conversations
and
myself
and
council
cooper
are
having
conversations
with
the
trade
on
a
variety
of
issues.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we
focus
on
the
document,
but
I
appreciate
the
question
you've
raised
in,
but
that's
more
of
a
market
issue
which
is
not
in
the
control
of
taxing
private
hire.
Andrew.
E
Thank
you,
chair.
I'd
echo,
your
your
comments
counts
in
terms
of
the
language,
I'm
not
I
I
don't
know
if
we
have
accurately
copied
across
all
the
poorly
worded
documents.
Graham
you
and
I
you
you
and
I
will
sit
down
and
make
sure
we
go
through
every
every
every
line.
To
make
sure
we're
absolutely
clear.
E
The
intention
is
not
to
confuse.
The
intention
is
exactly
the
opposite
here.
To
make
clear,
however,
the
starting
point
for
this
is
the
wording
in
the
original
policy
and,
for
example,
there
is
a
chapter
in
the
policy
on
hackney
carriage
and
private
hire.
The
chapter
in
hackney
carry
says
we
do
limit
the
numbers
and
for
the
private
higher
policy,
it
says
we
don't,
and
so
we've
provided
one
summary
under
under
6.4.
E
If
that's
about
people
not
being
able
to
be
mobile,
but
also,
if
you
think
about
it,
they'll
not
be
able
to
get
home
after
a
visit
after
a
meeting
and
so
on.
That's
that
absolutely
is
it
for
me.
Then
it's
not
just
any
convenience,
that's
a
safeguarding
issue
as
well.
So
absolutely
we
need
a
supply
of
drivers.
We
need
supplier
vehicles
in
order
to
meet
the
needs
of
the
city.
E
What
I
think
the
the
section
on
the
vehicle
number
suggests
is
the
council
does
not
have
the
levers
on
the
private
hire
side
to
stop
the
number
of
private
hire
vehicles
that
that
it
licenses
as
part
of
the
sort
of
recovery
plans
from
kovid,
and
so
we
have.
We
think
we
have
got
in
excess
of
250,
maybe
300
people
have
said
they
are
interested
in
becoming
drivers.
We've
got
a
further
600
drivers
who
are
licensed
by
the
council,
but
currently
not
working.
E
I
suspect
many
of
those
will
be
doing
delivery,
delivery
work
and
they
return
to
private
hire
after
after
after
christmas
may
not
return.
In
terms
of
that,
so
we
know
we
need
to
re-scope
the
provision
the
city
needs
following
following
kobit.
The
provision
in
this
policy
isn't
none
of
the
none
of
the
policies
here
were
written
with
covered
in
mind
in
terms
of
that,
but
absolutely
in
terms
of
the
the
taxi
and
private
high
importance
of
having
a
taxi
in
private
hire
trade
to
the
city.
It's
absolutely
central
in
in.
E
In
terms
of
that,
in
terms
of
then
we
know
the
numbers
are
down,
potentially
in
terms
of
the
the
the
journeys
that
are
being
requested
and
not
honored.
That's
in
many
cases
that's
an
issue
for
the
private
hire
operator.
If
they've
accepted
a
booking,
what
can
they
do
to
make
sure
that
booking
is
honored
around
that?
Should
there
be
be
subcontracting
the
booking
between
each
other
or
do
they
say?
Sorry
can't
honor
it,
and
possibly
some
people
would
never
use
that
private
hire
company
again.
So
absolutely
so.
E
Thank
you.
Sorry.
European
all-type
approval
until
we
hear
otherwise
that
the
uk
policy
will
be
to
mirror
whole
vehicle
type
european
approval,
but
that's
taken
from
a
policy
document,
probably
in
2013
or
14
again
that
preempts
brexit
around
that.
But
I'm
very
clear:
I
will
ask
the
department
of
transport
taxi
unit
and
say:
are
you?
Are
you
planning
to
review
anything
in
in
line
with
this?
E
Members
may
remember
when
we
came
to
the
statutory
guidance
was
very
little
on
vehicles
and
I
was
expecting
more
about
brexit
and
european
approval.
So
at
the
moment
it
might,
we
might
say,
obtain
the
equivalent
of
whole
vehicle
type
european
approval,
and
that
might
be
seen
as
an
update
in
the
policy
that
it's
not
a
major
change,
but
it's
a
it
helps
to
clarify,
and
otherwise
we
might
get
unnecessary
concerns.
A
F
Thanks
paul
just
I
know,
we've
covered
it
several
times,
but
we
are
right
in
saying
that
not
one
word
of
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
policy
has
been
changed.
That's
that's
my
first
one
second,
have
you
advised
the
trade
that
these
all
of
these
policies
are
going
to
be
solidified
into
one
policy?
I
know
if
there's
been
no
changes,
there's
no
need
to
consult,
but
have
they
actually
been
told
what
we're
doing
pages
13
and
14?
A
So,
just
on
that
latter
point,
that
was
a
political
decision
from
council
cooper
and
cast
myself
to
ask
the
review
date
as
it
were,
to
be
taken
out
and
be
moved
into
a
priority
list
instead.
So
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
that's
really
clear
that
was
a
decision
from
council
of
cooper
and
council
myself,
which
we
asked
officers
to
take
on
board.
If
you
want
to
pick
up
the
rest
andrew.
E
Yeah,
thank
you
chair
very
very
briefly.
We
had
the
first
of
the
new
quarterly
trade
meetings,
first,
first
and
second
of
december,
so
each
the
meetings
we're
still
typing
up
the
notes
from
the
meetings.
The
meetings
are
very
much
anticipated
and
therefore,
we've
got
quite
a
lot
to
type
up.
We,
we
absolutely
discussed
as
part
of
the
broader
review
of
policies.
E
Today's
report,
in
terms
of
that
also,
I
think,
in
terms
in
terms
of
that
we
we
share
a
copy
of
the
agenda
for
the
meeting
again
with
the
trade.
It
goes
it.
You
know
it
goes
out
ahead
ahead
of
the
meeting.
We
have
not
asked
trade
representatives
to
to
to
give
us
a
timetable.
What
we
have
done
at
the
meetings
is
to
ask
them
for
their
top
priority
or
top
two
priorities
and
they've
been
reflected
in
the
in
the
section
that
we'll
talk
about
in
terms
of
the
forward
plan.
E
What
we
haven't
necessarily
done
is
have
the
equivalent
discussions
with
other
stakeholder
groups,
so
that
would
be
road
to
safety,
older
people's
forum
and
so
on.
As
part
of
the
the
work
that
we
did
around
the
consultation,
we've
got
some
new
contacts
now
and
particularly
that
people
people
wanting
to
have
a
chat
about
older
people,
friendly
friendly
vehicles
and
so
on.
E
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
I
think,
as
part
of
that
framework
that
we're
drawing
in
and
people
who
are
stakeholders
as
well
as
trade
representatives,
so
yes
told
the
told
the
trade,
no
nothing.
Nothing
has
been
chat
and
again,
particularly
grammar.
It
may
well
be
that
some
of
the
clunky
wording
is
something
graham
has
honestly
transcribed
from
one
policy
document
to
another.
E
I'm
sure
it's
a
case
of
copy
and
paste
and
we'll
we
will
go
through
that,
but
no,
the
the
team
have
had
a
very,
very
clear
steer
from
me,
which
is.
This
is
not
the
place
for
that
fresh
thinking.
We
can
do
it
in
another
version
and
we
can
mark
it
in
red
ink.
There's
council
gather
it's
done
in
terms
of
that.
We
will
need
to
go
back
and
check
and
double
check.
I
think
chair,
I
might
have
a
discussion
with
you
about
the
areas
that
might
not
be
word.
E
For
word,
what's
in
the
previous
policy,
but
like
european
type
approval
to
make
very
clear,
we
could
put
a
word
in
to
say
look
or
a
footnote
to
say
this
is
actually
what
what
the
policy
mean.
There
is.
No,
there
is
no
uk
replacement
for
that,
so
we
will
say
the
equivalent
of
and
and
then
to
avoid
that
clarification.
But
now
this
is
very
clear.
This
is
not
necessarily
the
policies
or
the
summary
of
the
policies
that
we
would
like
to
see.
E
This
is
the
policies
as
we
currently
find
them,
and
then
we
will
have
an
agenda
going
going
forward
in
terms
of
reviewing
them.
What
one
theme
at
a
time
or
as
far
as
the
chair
said,
maybe
even
need
to
split
up
the
themes
into
into
one
or
more
sessions,
depending
on
how
you
know
how
easy
it
is
to
do
that.
Consultation
and
engagement.
A
I
think
just
stress
like
say
this
is
part
of
the
journey
of
cleaning.
This
up-
and
I
say
it
was-
it
was
made
quite
clear
from
castle
myself
that
we
did
want
this
to
be
go
for
the
the
team
and
comms
to
make
sure
it's
cleaned
up,
but
it's,
I
think
we
can
all
reflect
that
a
lot
of
this
stuff
hasn't
been
reviewed
for
a
very
long
time
in
terms
of
legislation.
A
There's
the
complications
of
this
is
significant
complications
of
case
law,
which
has
a
huge
impact
on
some
of
the
primary
legislation
and
the
following
regulations.
So
this
is
the
beginning
of
a
journey,
not
the
end
of
it
as
it
were.
I
don't
know
if
that's
a
pun
or
not
bearing
in
mind
what
we're
doing
today,
but
there
you
go
councillor
gibson.
A
E
I
think
the
reason
why
we
haven't
got
it
in
a
policy
document
is
we
don't
have
a
policy
for
inspection
of
vehicles.
We've
got
a
guidance
document,
it's
a
55-page
guidance
document
that
includes
summaries
of
how
you
know
every
single
aspect
of
a
vehicle
will
be
inspected.
The
policy
talks
about
the
level
that
we
need
the
vehicle
to
and
says
it
will
be
inspected
to
that
standard.
So
they're
going
to
see
the
difference
between
what's
a
policy
and
what's
a
more
detailed
process
there.
E
So
the
answer
is
we
don't
have
a
policy,
that's
written
in
that
way.
That
says
here
is
how
we
will
inspect
every
vehicle
either
when
it's
new
or
when
it
reaches
an
age
extension
or
when
it's
transferred
or
when
it's
had
an
accident,
and
so
on.
The
answer
is
the
vehicle
is
inspected
against
our
policies.
So
if
there's
a
policy
around
manufacture,
standard
or
a
policy
around
whether
it's
been
adapted
or
a
policy
around
whether
it's
got
tinted
windows
or
so
on
the
provision
for
that
is
in
here.
E
So
each
aspect
of
that
is
in
the
overall
policy.
How
we
do
that,
it
just
says
we
will
do
a
bit
like
we
don't
say
how
we
would
we
would
process
the
driver.
We
would.
We
would
ask
the
questions
and
then
we
would
see
if
it
met
our
standard.
So
it's
certainly
something
where
let's
go
to
the
appendices
at
the
back.
A
I
think,
maybe
just
to
pick
up
the
point
at
cass
gibson.
I
think
it
is
an
interesting
point.
It's
about
the
at
what
level
you
have
that
transparency.
So
this
is
an
introductory
document
which
is
also
planned
to
go
onto
the
council
website
and
then
link
to
more
complicated
documents
around
the
policy
framework.
That
probably
makes
sense.
A
That's
ongoing.
That
actually
is
around
process
improvement
and
operational
improvements,
and
that
will
be,
on
the
second
hand,
kind
of
kind
of
second
tandem.
That
will
happen
as
we
go
through
the
other
processes,
but
I
think
it's
a
fair
point
in
the
conversation
to
pick
up
that,
as
we
perhaps
go
through
this
journey
of
setting
other
policy
reviews
clarifying
stuff
does,
then
there
need
to
be
a
third
kind
of
layer
of
information
so
that
actually,
okay,
I've
looked
at
your
policy.
I
know
my
vehicle
needs
to
be
inspected.
A
Can
I
just
understand
what
you're
looking
for
in
a
bit
more
detail,
but
I
think
it's
kind
of
like
a
layer
cake
and
we're
going
through
layer
by
layer
to
try
and
clear
clarify
stuff
if
that
sort
of
makes
sense.
I
just
think
it's
probably
a
two
steps
beyond
this.
One
in
terms
of
this
is
about
the
policy
framework,
there's
the
operational
framework
and
that's
how
we
communicate
operational
framework.
Would
you
say
that's
a
fair
reflection,
andrew.
E
Yeah,
I
think
I
think
particularly,
I
wonder
if
we
might
have
a
couple
of
pages
on
the
what
what
happens
when
your
vehicle
is
inspected
under
the
driver,
licensing
guide
to
obtaining
a
license,
and
it
might
well
be
we
can.
We
can
certainly
check
on
what
we've
already
listed
here
and
see
what,
where
it,
where
it
mentions
an
inspection
to
say
that
I
think
particularly
there
are.
There
are
areas
there,
but
I
wouldn't
regard
it
as
an
inspection
policy
protocol
or
whatever
we've
we've
got
a
very
detailed.
E
You
know,
sort
of
almost
wheel
by
wheel
check
checklist
for
our
our
vehicle
examiners
and
we've
got
something
similar
for
those
on
street
compliance
checks,
but
it's
not
quite
it's
certainly
not
a
policy
in
in
that
respect,
and
therefore
we
haven't
included
it's
not
an
act
of
a
mission
on
our
part.
It's
just
it's
not
one
of
those
areas.
That's
a
policy.
I
think
it
would
be
helpful
to
it
to
indicate
that,
so
that
people
would
know
exactly
what
we
do.
E
D
A
Agree,
it's
the
the
right
of
appeal
is
with
the
magistrate
and
it's
quite
clear
in
legislation
and
case
law.
But
again
I
think
it's
one
of
these
clarity,
things
and
certainly
it's
part
of
the
policy
reviews
and
the
guidance
from
the
department
of
transport.
There
is
a
review
of
decision
making,
which
will
that
will
form
part
of
and
again
around
clarity
of
how
that
is,
and
I
think
yeah
we
can
make
things
clearer.
A
E
Chair,
if
I
can,
if
I
can
point
your
attention
to
where
it
is
in
the
report
yeah,
it's
page
12
of
your
bundle
and
it's
also
section
12
of
the
of
the
report.
So
following
the
trade
meetings
early
in
december,
we've
suggested
a
step-by-step
approach,
so
we
would
look
at
the
vehicles
first
potentially
then,
operators
then
decision
making
then
drivers,
then
compliance
and
enforcement,
then
governing
sharing
information.
E
A
Thank
you
for
that.
That
was
a
helpful
clarification
of
where
it
was
there's.
Just
I've
read
this
a
few
too
many
times
myself.
So
do
members
only
have
any
views
on
the
in
bearing
mind?
Actually
some
of
these
are
pretty
meaty,
so
it
might
only
be
one
heading,
but
actually
vehicle
standards
might
be
at
least
a
good
six
months,
plus
amount
of
work,
to
put
it
politely
and
probably
longer,
depending
on
the
amount
of
changes
we
potentially
may
or
may
not
suggest
in
the
level
of
consultation
and
the
interaction
with
our
neighboring
authorities,
etc.
A
We
would
have
to
have
from
your
conversation
with
the
trade.
I
know
many
of
you
have
had
emails
and
other
conversations
from
your
feeling
of
your
constituents,
both
in
the
trade
and
actually
members
of
the
public
and
other
stakeholders.
Do
you
feel
that
we've
got
the
indicative
order
right?
Do
you
feel
it
should
be
reordered?
E
So
I've
just
realized
number
three
is
missing:
there
isn't
a
number
three
that
has
been
deleted.
I
mean,
I
think
I
I'd
absolutely
agree
with
you.
I
think
the
question
was
there's
a
big
overlap
between
compliance
and
enforcement
and
gathering
and
sharing
information,
and
I
think
I'm
not
saying
we
could
do
them
both
at
the
same
time,
but
there's
certainly
an
element
of
what
questions
are
we
asking?
Who
do
we
need
to
talk
to?
Where
are
the
new
lines
of
lines
of
investigation
or
inquiry?
I
that
that
absolutely
makes
sense
to
me
counselor.
A
Any
other
comments
or
questions
on
this,
because
I
said
this
is
going
to
particularly
some
of
you
may
be
on
this
committee
for
the
next
few
years.
This
is
going
to
be
from
the
bulk
of
the
work
we
do
on
taxi
and
private
hire
in
terms
of
reviewing
these
policies,
so
any
other
questions
or
comments
beyond
council
lenixes.
A
Am
I
to
take
it
then
from
members
that
they
are
broadly
supposed
very
minded?
This
is
potentially
changeable.
If
there's
a
particular
piece
of
case
law,
that
might
mean
we
have
to
completely
rejig
things
or
new
guidance
from
the
government
etc.
This
is
a
bit
of
a
movable
feast,
but
are
we
I
am
I
taking
from
members
that
they
are
relatively
comfortable
with
the
indicative
order
of
doing
this
very
much.
Much
of
this
has
been
based
on
what
the
trade
has
said
to
us,
so
we
have
tried
to
reflect
them.
A
Not
all
of
the
trade
with
the
trade
want
other
things
to
be
dealt
with
first,
but
we
have
to
start
somewhere,
but
am
I
I'm
getting
some
nods
and
that
this
is
we're
relatively
comfortable
with
this
as
the
general
direction?
Okay,
so
I
have
to
do
the
formal
bit
by
the
recommendations.
Now,
don't
I
so.
Can
I
ask
the
members
to
endorse
the
taxing
private
high
influence
of
policy?
A
A
F
E
Yes,
we've
had
over
two
000
responses.
We
think
there's
some
duplication
in
there,
so
it's
a
little
bit
tricky
to
to
get
to
go
through
that.
I
think
we've
got
chairs
brief
on
about
the
12th
12th
of
january
chair.
So
we
will
do
that
well
ahead.
Well,
ahead
of
the
schedule
for
licensing
committee,
counselor.
A
No,
that
sounds
good,
so
item
agenda
number,
10
date
and
time
of
next
meeting
to
note
that
the
next
meeting
will
take
place
on
tuesday,
23
january
2022
at
10
a.m,
at
least
if
we
call
unless
the
government
decides
to
change
any
legislation
in
the
meantime.
That
concludes
the
business
of
today's
meeting.
Thank
you
for
your
attendance
and
contributions
and
now
declare
the
meeting
closed.