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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Licensing Committee - 08 March 2022
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A
Good
morning,
everyone
and
welcome
to
this
meeting
of
the
licensing
committee.
My
name
is
council
paul
ray
and
I
will
be
chairing
today's
meeting.
Could
I
remind
everyone
that
today's
meeting
is
being
live
streamed
onto
the
council's
website,
so
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
the
need
to
be
present.
A
Now
before
I
do
invite
members
to
introduce
themselves,
there
is
a
slight
special
occasion.
I
do
have
to
note
today
and
it's
a
certain
person's
last
licensing
committee
who
possibly
could
that
be
now
john
here
for
those
who
don't
know
is
retiring
after
47
years.
Is
it
at
the
council,
45
45,
okay,
I've
added
a
few
two
more
years
on
that
not
to
make
anyone
feel
old.
When
you
started
the
council,
I
still
had
another
nine
years
to
be
born.
A
That's
all
I'm
saying
nicely
put
and
I've
been
told
a
little
bit
of
a
tip
bit
that
apparently
on
the
day
that
you've
joined
the
council,
a
certain
elvis
presley
passed
away,
and
so
one
king
passed
and
another
king
of
public
service
joined
us.
A
B
G
Councillor
goer
almost
piston
holdbackward
new
to
the
committee
good
morning.
F
Good
morning,
everyone
councilor
paul
alderson.
A
And
we
just
wait
for
councillor
garthwaite
to
join
us,
who
is
her?
Tax
is
not
turned
up,
basically
so
she's
on
our
way.
So
moving
to
item
agenda
number
one.
J
Thank
you,
chair
under
agenda
item
one.
There
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
two.
There
are
no
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press
or
public
agenda
item
three.
I
am
unaware
of
any
other
items
of
business
agenda.
Item
4.
Could
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
interests?
They
may
have
I'll
assume.
That's
none
agenda
item;
5!
Apologies
for
abstinence,
yes
chair!
We
have
received
a
a
number
castle
of
bitter
councillor
hutchinson
and
councillor.
Smart
have
all
sent
their
apologies.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
item
agenda
six
minutes
of
the
previous
meeting
held
on
the
14th
december
2022.
Do
members
accept
these
minutes
to
be
true
and
correct
record
I'll,
assume
correct
unless
otherwise
indicated?
A
H
Thank
you
chair,
just
a
clarification
on
page
six
of
the
minutes
from
last
time
where
there
was
a
question
around
vehicles
having
an
ajax
extension
inspection
at
age,
seven
or
eight
years,
it's
for
two
different
categories
of
vehicles,
those
vehicles
that
are
allowed
to
work
until
they
are
12
years
old,
acne
carriage
wheelchair,
accessible
vehicles.
They
are
inspected
at
eight
years,
all
of
the
vehicles
inspected
at
seven
years.
So
we've
we've
kept
the
wording.
We've
provided
a
clarification
in
the
single
licensing
policy.
A
Thank
you
for
that,
andrew
any
other
matters
arising
from
the
minutes
of
the
last
meeting.
If
there's
no
other
indicators
alex
I'll,
take
that
as
fine,
then
no
no
indications
item
agenda
number
eight,
the
annual
licensing
report.
Could
I
invite
nicole
and
two
to
present
the
entertainment,
license
element
of
the
report
and
then
ask
andrew
to
speak
on
the
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
section
so
over
to
you.
E
E
E
On
page
five,
we
go
through
what
we're
doing
regarding
business
support,
so
this
is
around
putting
out
regular
bulletins
to
the
trade
on
the
latest
covered
regulations
and
restrictions
and
again
when
things
open
back
up
again
again,
we
have
all
our
staff
working
from
home
in
entertainment,
licensing
and
although
we
do
now
have
some
office
space,
that's
how
it's
predominantly
going
to
stay
for
the
foreseeable
future
with
regards
to
license
processing
and
the
number
of
license
applications
as
you'll
see
on
page
8,
the
number
of
new
and
variation
applications
stayed
relatively
stable,
so
it
shows
a
good
deal
of
optimism
within
the
industry,
but
you
will
see
the
impact
of
coronavirus
on
our
temporary
event
notices
on
page
nine.
E
We
do
normally
do
about
1500
a
year
and
over
the
last
two
years
that
has
dramatically
dropped.
However,
from
january
this
year
I
can
say
that
it's
it's
come
back
in
in
force,
so
that's
good
news.
E
I
think
I'm
just
about
there
really.
The
other
thing
to
point
out
would
be
on
page
15.
You've
got
our
covered
related
actions.
As
you
can
see,
it
was
quite
a
high
number
in
2020
and
that's
dropped
right
down
in
2021.
H
Thank
you,
I'm
I'm
similarly
going
to
give
you
an
a
very
brief
highlights
and
then
in
invite
questions,
we've
covered
an
awful
lot
of
ground
in
this
year's
annual
licensing
report.
I'm
going
to
point
several
areas
for
you
for
your
attention,
particularly
because
I
think
you'll
be
interested
in.
I
think
you
may
have
questions
the
numbers
I'm
going
to
use
are
the
numbers
of
the
pages
in
the
the
annual
licensing
report,
not
in
the
bundle.
H
So
so
the
taxi
and
private
hire
licensing
section
starts
on
page
19
of
the
report
and
it
starts
with
an
overview
really
of
the
year.
Exactly
as
sue
said,
it's
been
a
challenging
year.
We've
provided
a
good
deal
of
support
to
the
carriage
and
private
hire
trade,
both
financially,
but
also
over
over
the
phone
and
by
email.
H
We
haven't
been
able
to
provide
anything
like
as
much
support
face
to
face
that
will
change
over
the
next
month,
or
so
our
challenge
will
be
to
keep
answering
the
phone
and
the
email
at
the
same
time
as
providing
more
more
services
face
to
face.
Similarly,
we've
coped
with
lockdown
restrictions.
I
isolation
guidance
as
well.
I
would
say
in
terms
of
tax
and
private
higher
licensing,
it's
been
around.
50
of
the
staff
have
worked
from
the
building
for
some
stuff.
H
They
can't
do
their
role
unless
they're
working
in
the
building,
so
for
some
officers
they
can.
They
can
work
in
a
hybrid
way,
but
for
a
certain
percentage
of
the
taxing
private
eye
licensing
team,
they
actually
have
to
do
their
work
in
in
in
our
building.
H
In
terms
of
the
support
to
the
trade
that
I'd
mentioned
and
and
members
who
were
here
in
january,
20.
Sorry.
A
H
So
support
to
the
trade
during
2021
we've
administered
something
like
3.3
million
pounds
of
support
to
taxi
and
private
hire
license
holders
it's
slightly.
It
doesn't
quite
fit
with
the
calendar,
yet
it
fits
more
with
the
financial
year,
so
around
1.3
million
that
may
rise
to
up
to
1.8
million
by
the
end
of
end
of
february
figures
for
free
licensing
grants
to
owners
of
approximately
2
200
vehicles.
These
are
low
emission,
but
also
wheelchair,
accessible
and
larger
vehicles.
We've
also
administered
almost
two
million
that
would
rise
to
up
to.
H
We
think
two
point
two
two
point:
three
million.
As
of
the
end
of
march
of
additional
restrictions
grant.
This
is
money
that
the
the
funding
that
the
council
got
from
central
government
for
covid
restrictions,
so
we've
actually
linked
those
licensing
grants
to
three-year
packages
of
support
that
fit
with
three
year
licenses
for
drivers
and
three
years
worth
of
fees
for
owners
of
vehicles.
So
it's
a
significant
amount
of
work,
administering
something
like
7
000
packages
of
support.
H
H
Free
licensing
grant
funding
for
vehicles
comes
from
money
that
the
council
held
back
from
the
returning
clean
air
zone
funding
I'm
going
to
move
on
then
to
page
20.,
page
20..
I
just
really
want
to
emphasize
the
statutory
tax
in
private
higher
vehicle
standards.
Again
we
had
a
report
earlier
in
the
year.
This
set
out
about
30
areas
of
what's
regarded
as
good
good
practice
or
best
practice.
H
The
council
matches
up
very
very
well
against
these
standards.
There
are
three
areas
that
we
identified
that
we
wanted
to
pick
up
on
in
future
reviews,
the
the
first
of
which
was
the
single
licensing
policy,
which
summarizes
the
existing
council
policies
and
that
was
approved
in
december
and
published
in
january.
H
H
On
page
21
just
want
to
emphasize
vehicle
inspections,
so
we
inspected
in
our
garage
2700
vehicles
of
which
53
failed
one
way
or
another.
So
people
may
you
may
have
received
constituency
contact
about
a
high
number
of
vehicle
fails.
That
average
is
around
about
four
a
month
between
four
and
five
a
month.
It's
not
a
high
number
of
vehicle
failures.
H
Okay,
turning
to
on
street
page
22
around
1100
roadside
inspections
in
a
full
year
of
enforcement,
I
would
expect
that
figure
to
be
over
2
000..
H
Quite
a
small
number
of
vehicles
then
suspended
immediately,
so
60
vehicles
were
suspended
immediately,
and
some
of
them
may
well
have
had
to
be
transported
on
a
vehicle
transporter
again,
so
you've
got
the
majority
980
out
of
those
1
100
found
to
be
in
really
good
condition,
so
it
provides
some
confidence
that
when
vehicles
are
inspected
on
the
street
they're
in
good
condition,
quite
a
low
number
of
vehicles
inspected
on
behalf
of
other
authorities,
we
haven't
done
as
many
joint
operations
with
neighboring
authorities.
H
Okay.
Turning
to
the
the
number
of
licensing
statistics,
page
23,
significant
fall
in
handy
carriage
and
private
higher
drivers
and
also
private
hire
vehicles.
I
think
this
is
people
who
and
vehicles
which
have
reached
the
end
of
their
life
and
have
not
been
replaced.
H
We've
also
got
in
addition,
a
further
600
drivers
who,
while
they're
licensed,
have
told
us
they're
not
currently
working
as
a
taxi
or
a
private
hire
driver,
that's
a
significant
loss
of
capacity
for
the
city,
and
we
want
very
much
to
resume
full
driver
training
and
assessment
and
to
get
those
numbers
up,
but
we'll
also
want
to
make
sure
that
those
people
are
fit
and
proper
and
suitable
to
be
licensed.
H
Okay,
I'm
going
to
go
on
to
page
24
and
25
just
on
the
on
the
decisions,
so
we've
had
fewer
driver,
revocations
or
suspension,
so
so,
compared
to
previous
years,
it
hasn't
been
as
soon
as
it
hasn't
been
a
normal
yeah
in
terms
of
some
of
the
licensing
decisions,
so
63
drivers
suspended
during
that
time.
H
Normally
those
figures
would
be
at
least
double
double
that
so
it
suggests
to
to
me
that
there's
been
fewer
fewer
journeys,
fewer
drivers
we
actually
haven't
had
fewer
complaints,
but
there
might
be
fewer
other
issues
that
are
being
generated
there
and
then
just
in
terms
of
refusal
and
revocation
decisions,
particularly
we've
had
a
rise
in
major
motoring
offences
from
20
from
three
in
2020.
H
To
seven
in
2021
and
I've
just
provided
a
bit
more
information
on
page
25,
so
seven
revocations
in
2021
were
for
major
motion
offenses
three
for
driving
over
the
legal
limit
for
drugs
or
alcohol,
four
for
driving
without
due
care
and
attention
one
for
driving,
whilst
using
a
mobile
phone.
It
looks
like
one
of
that's
more
than
seven,
so
one
of
them
may
well
be
more
than
one
issue.
At
the
same
time,.
H
In
terms
of
suspensions,
we've
got
fewer
drivers
suspended
than
in
previous
years.
I
can't
see
a
major
change
in
the
profile
of
what
those
reasons
for
suspensions
are
turning
to
page
26,
which
is
ranked
complaints,
we're
actually
back
up
to
pre
covered
levels,
really
794
very
close
to
2019
828,
the
one
of
the
things
that
stands
out
there
is
license
breach
and
driver
conduct
as
well.
So
I'm
sure
you
might
have
some
more
questions
around
that
license.
H
And
then
the
last
two
items
and
then
I'll
open
it
up
to
to
questions
or
following
following
sue
so
in
terms
of
appeals,
people
have
the
right
to
appeal
against
a
refusal
refusal
to
grant
refusal
to
renew
or
against
a
revocation
at
four
in
2021.
This
is
on
page
27.
H
They
were
all
either
dismissed
by
the
magistrates,
the
appeal
by
the
brother,
by
the
license,
holder
or
withdrawn
by
the
license
hold
of
often
quite
late,
often
on
the
same
day
of
the
hearing.
So
it's
maybe
a
slightly
lower
number
than
we
had
pre-covered.
So
we
had
something
like
13
in
2019,
but
that's
not
an
a
typical
number.
H
You'll
also
know
they're,
all
almost
all
at
kirkley's
magistrate's
court
as
well,
so
it
just
takes
a
bit
more
organizing
to
be
ready
for
for
those
appeals
and
then,
finally,
in
the
year
ahead-
and
this
fits
in
with
what
we
said
at
the
december
meeting,
we've
got
the
forward
plan,
which
is
to
to
conclude
the
report
on
the
consultation,
around
suitability,
minor
motoring
convictions,
but
also
start
a
vehicle
conditions
review
which,
when
we've
had
the
trade
meetings,
was
very
much
the
focus
from
the
from
the
trade.
A
G
Thank
you
chair.
My
question
is
around
the
uncategorized
complaints,
because,
obviously,
looking
at
the
figures
from
2019
20
from
two
and
three,
it's
jumped
up
to
14.,
so
I'd
like
to
know
what
they
constituted
in
terms
of
uncategorized
complaints.
Please.
A
We
will
get
a
response
out
to
members
yep
councillor
councilman,
not
flynn,
count
I'm
having
one
of
those
days.
Forgive
me,
forgive
me
butly
there
we
go.
I
need
coffee
clearly.
D
Thank
you
chair.
I
had
four
questions
please
and
the
first
one
referred
to
page
19.
D
It
didn't
disappoint
me
and
nobody
asked
me
whether
I
was
disappointed
because,
in
my
opinion,
it
was
essential
that
we
got
back
to
face-to-face
meetings
whenever
we
could,
for
all
the
reasons
about
being
able
to
look
at
people
body
language
actually
see
a
human
being,
and-
and
I
would
like
it,
minuting
chair
with
your
permission-
that
I
personally
cannot
associate
myself
with
that
paragraph.
A
D
It's
the
main
page
7
of
stroke,
19.,
the
the
the
second
question,
if
I
can
just
relates
to
something
which
might
be
attached
to
that,
is
that
we've
had
a
bit
of
email,
ratating,
the
last
few
days
about
people,
members,
volunteering
for
subcommittees
or
not
volunteering,
and
I
don't
want
to
get
involved
in
all
that.
D
But
one
thing
that
did
strike
me
maybe
several
weeks
ago,
actually
was
that
it
was
just
my
impression
that,
whereas
we
used
to
have
very
regular
subcommittees,
abc,
etc,
I
got
the
impression
that
we
were
now
having
fewer
of
those
and
a
lot
more
ad
hoc
meetings
where
members
were
having
to
be
recruited,
and
it
was
only
my
impression.
D
I
just
wondered
whether
sue
could
comment
on
that
sue
mentioned
staff
working
from
home,
particularly
during
the
pandemic,
and
I
just
wanted
to
ask
the
question
as
to
whether
somebody
will
have
a
policy
on
this
and
are.
Is
the
department
confident
that
the
right
number
of
people
are
available
to
actually
do
the
job
and
final
point
to
share?
If
I
can
I'm
on
page
31
right
at
the
bottom,
there's
reference
to
restrictions
on
gatherings
and
social
distancing
have
caused
the
process.
D
To
be
difficult,
patience
remains
the
catchphrase.
Well,
there
are
no
restrictions
on
gatherings
now
so
can
we
get?
We
don't
need
patience.
We
need
action.
Please
thank
you.
C
J
C
Thank
you,
john
on
the
matter
of
homeworking
for
staff
or
hybrid
working
as
we're
doing
we're
not
saying
that
staff
will
be
product.
Well,
we
will
be
predominantly
working
from
home
because
it's
proven
it's
very
successful
in
our
case,
because
we
no
longer
hold
those
face-to-face
meetings,
we
don't
have
a
public
counter,
any
longer,
we're
more
and
more
moving
to
electronic
services
and
we're
finding
that
we
are
much
more
productive,
being
able
to
work
from
home,
cutting
out
the
commute,
etc,
etc.
C
We
do
have
office
space
as
sue
has
mentioned,
but
we
no
longer
have
the
office
that
we
used
to
have
at
enterprise
house
that
accommodated
everybody.
Now
we
have
a
designated
space
here
in
the
civic
hall.
On
average,
six
people
can
attend
on
any
day
and
there's
18
of
us
in
the
service.
So
of
course
we
do
have
to
manage
that
so
really
we're
leaving
it
up.
C
Obviously,
there's
attendance
on
days
we
have
committee
meetings
or
if
we
do
happen
to
have
a
customer
coming
in
and
we're
required
to
meet
them
at
merriam
house,
we'll
you
to
we'll
arrange
our
working
arrangements
around
those
meetings,
but
in
the
main
everybody
seems
to
be
quite
content.
Working
from
home.
A
A
G
G
On
page
22
I
can
see
there
were
60
vehicles
were
suspended
at
the
roadside
immediately
after
the
inspection
82
were
issued
with
ratification,
notices
and
46
drivers
were
given
advice
about
the
vehicle
condition
now
out
of
the
82,
with
ratification,
notices
and
46
drivers
giving
advice
how
many
of
them
were
later
suspended.
G
G
And
thirdly,
if
we
look
at
2021
again
reasons
for
suspensions,
we
had
again
going
back
to
inappropriate
behavior
16
in
2019
5
in
20
and
6
in
2021.
G
A
And
could
you
also
pick
up
counselor
buckley's
final
question
as
well,
when
you
respond
like
I
forgot
about
council
booker's
question.
H
Okay,
so
starting
with
page
19.,
I
think
that
that
should
be.
This
is
a
report
on
the
calendar
year
2021.
So
it
probably
should
say
patience
remained
the
catchphrase.
We
had
significant
disruption
for
the
majority
of
the
year.
We
had
similar
to
entertainment.
I
think
we
had
staff
covering
other
staff's
work
or
the
other
other
staff's
role.
We
had
staff
whose
job
it
is
not
normally
to
answer
the
phone,
but
to
answer
the
phone
and
so
on,
so
that
disruption
was
throughout
the
year,
not
quite
the
same
as
entertainment
licensing.
H
We,
as
I've
said
before
we
have
around
half
our
staff,
actually
find
it
very,
very
difficult
to
do
their
role
unless
they're
in
the
building.
That
includes
the
customer
facing
staff
in
licensing
enforcement
officers,
vehicle
examiners.
There
are
other
other
roles
where
people
can
actually
work
work,
a
hybrid
pattern,
so
absolutely
we're
taking
we're
taking
action
on
that.
H
What
I
don't
want
to
do
is
to
leave
the
the
phone
calls
and
emails
unanswered
and,
as
ever,
it's
a
a
bit
of
a
battle
in
terms
of
how
you
prioritize,
so
that,
if
we're
revising
it
for
a
final
report,
which
is
that
should
be
in
the
past
tense
rather
than
rather
than
currently
given
that
we're
in
march
2022.
H
council.
Almost
I
don't
know
that
did
the
details
of
the
of
the
of
the
vehicles
that
were
inspected.
How
many
of
those
then
led
to
a
suspension
following
an
on-street
request?
No.
H
Yeah,
no
normally,
I
would
say
if,
if
someone
is
given
a
rectification,
notice
on
street
they're,
given
a
certain
amount
of
time
to
get
that
that
problem
rectified,
that
could
be
a
week
or
it
could
be
four
weeks.
If
they
don't
get
that
problem
rectified,
then
the
vehicle
is
suspended.
So
I
can
get
the
figures
in
terms
of
the
number
of
vehicles
that
were
that
were
then
suspended
following
it
on
street.
H
I
don't
know
quite
how
that's
going,
how
that's
going
to
match
up,
but
I
would
expect
maybe
a
third
of
those
vehicles
to
have
been
suspended,
but
usually
the
majority
of
owners
find
that
they've
gone.
They
go
and
get
they're
going,
get
a
new
tire
or
they
go
and
get
a
new
brake
like
a
bulb
or
they
go
they.
If
the
stickers
have
come
off,
they
put,
they
put
the
stickers
on
and
so
on.
So
I'll
get
the
figures
in
terms
of
from
2021.
H
In
terms
of
how
many
vehicles
were
then
suspended,
it
may
not
be
possible
to
absolutely
match
all
of
that
up
with
all
of
the
on-street
inspections,
inappropriate
behavior
how
well
defined
it
is
very
definitely
a
catch
all
around
that,
and
it
certainly
would
it's
really
poor
behavior
that
isn't
then
doesn't
fit
in
within
with
another
arrow.
H
So
if
that's
about
not
a
million
miles
away
from
driver
conduct
in
in
the
complaint
side
for
a
very
serious
complaint
that
that
would
touch
on
sexual
behavior,
violence,
drugs
theft,
I
would
say
theft
rather
than
dishonesty.
That
justifies
an
immediate
suspension.
H
We
regard,
then,
that
there's
a
serious
question
mark
about
that
that
driver's
behavior
for
what
we
might
regard
as
less
less
serious
offences,
rudeness,
careless
language,
all
that
sort
of
thing,
so
that
that
it's
certainly
the
sort
of
thing
that
we
cover
in
our
driver
training
around
that
sort
of
behavior.
We
have
a
sort
of
professional
driving
standards
module.
Where
we
talk
about
the
way
we
want
drivers
to
to
talk
to
their
passengers
and
again,
the
vast
majority
of
drivers
absolutely
do,
and
they
absolutely
understand
it.
H
One
of
the
remedies
that
we
would
do
for
that
driver
behavior
would
be
to
have
some
remedial
training
to
make
sure
that
those
drivers
are
reminded
of
the
standards
that
we
hold
them
to
in
terms
of
driver
behavior,
and
it's
it's
almost
always
the
largest
area
driver
conduct.
It's
almost
always
the
largest
area
of
complaints
that
could
be
rudeness.
It
could
be
refused
to
turn
the
radio
off.
It
could
be.
H
Didn't
didn't
pick
me
up
from
the
place
that
I
that
I
wanted
to.
I
haven't
got
the
figures
on
exactly
how
many
of
those
complaints
are
upheld.
It's
a
slightly
different
procedure
to
the
council's
complaints
procedure.
We
do
find
that
some
complaints
absolutely
are
not
are
not
upheld.
H
So,
for
example,
if
it's
a
private
hire
vehicle,
the
loca,
the
location
pickup,
is
discussed
with
the
the
telephonist
at
the
operator
or
if
it's
on
an
app
it's
on
the
as
on
the
app
with
the
operator,
and
we
do
find
sometimes
that
private
hire
operators
accept
pickups
at
locations
that
drivers
are
very
wise
not
to
pick
up
so
you
could
have
an
unfair
complaint
against
the
driver.
Saying,
oh,
I
want
to
be
picked
up
here
and
the
driver
picked
me
up.
50
yards
down.
H
The
road
tribe
is
quite
right
to
do
that
to
not
pick
up
at
a
dangerous
junction,
so
I
haven't
got
the
figures
on
exactly
how
many
of
those
complaints
were
upheld.
I
would
say
probably
the
the
majority
of
those
complaints
are
upheld
and
we
have
some
agreed
action
in
form
of
a
warning
or
maybe
or
maybe,
further
training,
but
it's
it's
broadly
understood
to
be
lower,
lower
level
and
something
that
doesn't
meet
the
threshold
for
an
immediate
suspension
or
something
that
we
think
puts
the
public
at
risk.
G
You
know
when
it
comes
to
the
driver
conduct,
and
you
said
majority
of
them
complaints
maybe
or
might
have
been
upheld.
So
I
would
like
to
have
a
figure
on
that,
please,
if
possible.
Thank
you.
A
H
Happens:
yeah
we've
actually
got
a
a
bespoke
complaint
system,
so
I
know
that
there
is
that
information
in
there
in
terms
of
that,
it's
just
that
we
don't
provide
it
in
the
report.
I
think
the
the
the
we're
dealing
with
quite
large
numbers
we've
got
800
of
which,
over
a
quarter,
a
drive,
a
driver
conduct
there.
I
think
I
think
I'll
I'll
find
out
exactly
how
many
were
upheld.
H
How
many
were
not
upheld
and
particularly
then
about
it's
really
about
the
action
going
going
forward
as
well
in
terms
of
the
the
remedy.
A
G
A
B
Yeah
apologies
for
being
late.
I
had
a
an
appointment
prior
to
the
meeting,
which
is
why
I
haven't
got
a
card
in
place
right
two
questions.
One
is
that
on
the
license
breach
it's
gone
up
substantially,
and
you
said
there
are
a
number
of
reasons
I
think,
given
that
it's
gone
up
substantially,
it
would
be
useful
to
have
a
breakdown
to
understand
where
these
licenses
are
being
breached.
B
So
that's
question
number
one
question
number
two:
when
we
look
at
the
licensing
statistics
and
in
all
forms
of
drivers
and
operators,
the
numbers
are
reducing
now,
partly,
I
suspect
this
could
be
due
to
the
pandemic,
but
when
you
also
hear
that
more
than
650,
hackney
carriage
and
private
hire
drivers
have
reported
that
they're
not
working.
My
concern
is
that
are
we
in
a
position
where
we
don't
have
the
requirement
for
the
taxi
drivers?
B
And
actually,
you
know
the
the
trade
or
is
it
that
there
is
now
a
shortfall
that
we're
not
able
to
address,
or
is
it
that
that
shortfall
is
being
filled
by
drivers
from
outside
the
area?
Are
we
seeing
a
lot
more
drivers
coming
in,
and
I
really
think
that
if
our
numbers
are
dropping
and
other
authorities,
numbers
are
increasing,
we
have
less
and
less
control
over
that,
which
means
that
passengers
in
leeds
potentially
have
potentially
have
a
lower
level
of
service
or
control
over
their
service.
B
And
it's
something
that
perhaps
we
need
to
address
to
find
out.
Why
we
are
would
appear
to
be
hemorrhaging
numbers.
Is
it
that
there's
no
demand,
or
is
it
because
also
it
will
affect
the
council's
income
from
this
as
well,
which
may
affect
your
department's
ability
to
function
as
well?
So
there's
a
whole
host
of
questions
around
that,
and
it
may
even
be
chair
that
if
this
does
continue-
or
we
we
pick
this
up
now-
that
it
might
be
something
that
we
want
to
look
at
in
depth,
because
I
think
that
is
concerning.
H
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Council.
I
mean
in
terms
of
license
breach.
There
are
definitely
some
areas
that
we
knew
were
risks
due
to
the
different
working
arrangements
under
lockdown.
So,
for
example,
we
issued
stickers
and
we've
posted
badges
for
drivers
that
they
wear
around
the
neck,
and
we've
posted
the
the
disc
that
goes
in
the
front
of
the
vehicle.
We
didn't
take
the
old
badge
off
people.
We
didn't
take
the
old
sticker
off
people.
H
H
We
will
take
the
old
badge
off
someone
before
we
give
them
a
new,
a
new
badge,
so
there's
definitely
some
areas
that
we
thought
would
be
would
be
risks
or
concerns,
but
the
the
risk
would
be
even
more
so
if
we
didn't
post
out
the
badges
to
give
an
idea,
we've
probably
posted
out
something
like
10
000
patches
in
2021.
H
H
Why
are
you
not
using
an
up-to-date
badge?
I
would
very
much
expect
those
to
be
the
largest
two
or
three
categories,
but
there
are
some
also
some
basic
ones
like
private
hire
vehicles,
parking
on
taxi
ranks
and
again
and
again
there
may
well
be
other
other.
You
know
other
sort
of
if
you
like,
regardless
lower
level,
issues
that
don't
necessarily
put
the
public
at
risk,
but
might
well
cause
friction
with
you
know
within
and
across
the
trades.
H
Well,
actually,
did
you
know
these
things
are
going
on
and
there's
a
role
there
for
ev
everybody
in
terms
of
making
sure
that
you've
got
the
up-to-date
badge
we
do
get
to
go
to
great
efforts
to
post
out
those
badges
and
discs
so
that
they
can
be
put
in
the
car
so
that
they
can
be
worn
and
so
on,
but
during
lockdown
and
lockdown
restrictions
we've
not
been
in
a
position
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
the
the
old
badges
and
stickers.
H
We
have
got
an
honesty
box
where
people
can
leave
them
with
us,
but
that's
not
the
same
as
making
sure
there's
not
a
duplicate,
duplicate,
badges,
badges
going
on.
H
In
terms
of
licensing
statistics,
I
mean,
I
think,
in
terms
of
the
vehicle
side,
the
vehicle
figures
are
picking
up
extremely
quickly,
so
we're
inspecting
something
like
50
to
70
vehicles
that
are
applying
for
new
a
new
vehicle
license.
H
That's
rather
higher
than
would
have
been
the
position
before
lockdown.
So
for
me,
I
think
we've
had
a
suppressed
demand
during
lockdown
the
loss
of
earnings
as
well.
H
In
terms
of
the
driver
side,
we've
got
around
300
people
who
have
said
they
are
either
applying
to
want
to
work
as
a
private
hire
or
a
healthy
carriage
driver
or
they've.
Given
us
a
notification
of
interest
to
do
that,
and
I
think
our
approach
this
week
and
next
week
is
to
say
thank
you
very
much
for
that.
We'll
have
some
training
we'll
have
a
training
fee
from
you.
H
We'll
have
an
application
fee
from
you
in
terms
of
the
income
she
said,
and
we
will
then
start
to
resume
that
new
applicant
new
driver
training
in
terms
of
the
people
who've
kept
a
license
in
their
back
pocket
and
may
return
to
it
from
other
work.
We
think
that
might
be
delivery
work
or
it
might
be
split
elsewhere.
H
I
think
taxi
and
private
hard
drives
are
always
combined
work
with
other
work,
and
I
think
that
they'll
be
interested
to
see
whether
it
was
still
600
midway
through
the
year,
and
that
would
that
would
then
tell
us
that
those
people
are
very
definitely
keeping
that
the
flat
license
in
reserve,
but
really
not
adding
to
the
capacity
in
the
city.
H
H
Disability
can
play,
but
they
have
gone
from
10
to
16
is
on
page
26
would
be
around
people
with
guide
dogs
or
wheelchairs,
actually,
who
absolutely
rely,
absolutely
rely
on
on
those
vehicles
to
get
around
to
get
home
if
they
feel
that
that
fit
that
that
vehicle
doesn't
turn
up
and
if
there's
a
whether
there's
a
vehicle
calls
for
that
or
a
driver
course
for
that.
Those
are
complaints
that
we
take
very
very
seriously
and
we
certainly
discuss
with
the
operator.
We
will
may
well
discuss
as
well
with
the
individual
drivers.
H
H
B
Yeah,
thanks
just
to
come
back
to
that.
So
your
take
on
the
figures
dropping
are
primarily
due
to
what's
been
happening,
with
covid,
etc
and
you're,
you're,
confident
that
the
numbers
are
starting
to
rebuild
and
we
will
rebuild.
B
Or
do
you
think
it's
something
that
we
we
should
be
looking
at
to
ensure
that
the
numbers
don't
drop
off
and
if
there
is
a
loss
of
trade
within
leeds-based
drivers
that
it's
not
being
picked
up
elsewhere,
because
that
would
lead
to
a
reduction
in
potential
reduction
in
the
control
that
we
have
over
the
passengers.
Experience
within
leeds.
H
Yeah
reasonably
confident,
I
think,
every
time
I
I
go
in
leads,
I
see
it.
I
see
a
an
out
of
town,
private
hybrid,
but
now
I'm
I'm
looking
for
it
all
the
time,
so
that's
probably
unconscious
bias.
I'm
on
my
point
of
view,
I
couldn't
say
that
I've
seen
any
any
more
vehicles.
Absolutely
we
want
to.
We
want
to
resume
and
I'm
confident
that
we're
picking
up
on
the
vehicle
side,
the
driver's
side
will
be
slower,
I'd
like
by
the
time.
Maybe
we
have
the
the
mid-year.
H
You
know
mid-year
june,
just
to
provide
an
update
on
the
on
the
numbers.
There
I'd
be
interested
in
how
many
of
those
600
drivers
have
come
back
to
tax.
Your
private
hirework,
that's
far
higher
actually
than
the
300
odd
that
have
left
the
trade
and
also
those
are
experienced
drivers.
Well,
they
don't
need
to
be
trained
in
that
way.
They
just
need
to
be
licensed
so
that
that
will
be
so.
H
You
know
we
could
do
that
quite
quickly
in
terms
of
that,
if
we
think
the
attraction
of
delivery
work
is
something
that
trump's
taxing,
private,
hirework
and
so
on,
then
we
might
need
to
think
again
in
terms
of
how
we,
you
know
where
we,
where
we
get
our
drivers
from
and
how
and
how
operators
recruit
them.
Our
tax
associations
recruit.
B
Yes,
thank
you,
chair
just
to
help
reassure
members
as
well.
Just
help
put
this
into
some
sort
of
context.
The
reduction
in
drivers
is
not
just
solely
attributable
to
leads.
It's
also
something
that's
affected,
other
authorities
across
the
country
as
well.
There
was
some
media
coverage
about
it.
Last
year,
the
bbc
provided
quite
a
lot
of
media
coverage
about
it,
where
it
reported
that
some
local
authorities
had
seen
a
drop
as
high
as
50
in
the
number
of
their
licensed
drivers.
B
Not
returning
to
the
trade
following
the
pandemic.
Fortunately
leads.
We
haven't
seen
figures
quite
that
high.
Also,
the
department
of
transport
produces
statistical
information
for
taxi
and
private
hire
vehicles
in
england,
and
that
that
report
suggests
that
the
number
of
licensed
drivers
in
england
fell
on
average
in
each
authority
by
an
average
of
15.9
during
2020
in
2021,
which
largely
corresponds
to
the
lack
to
the
dropper
drive,
as
we've
seen
in
leads
as
well,
so,
where
we're
comparable
with
that
figure.
So
the
so
the
issue
is
national
one
and
not
just
confined
to
leads.
B
As
andrew's
already
said,
our
priority
is
looking
at
those
600
applications
that
are
coming
through
to
be
processed
to
get
more
drivers
on
the
streets
and
leads,
and
also
to
prioritize
the
new
vehicle
inspections
as
well,
which
are
writing
as
well.
But
I
just
thought
it
would
be
helpful
to
mention
that
and
of
course
I
can
provide
a
link
to
the
media
coverage
and
the
department
for
transport
report
to
john
after
the
meeting
to
circulate
to
members.
If
that
will
be
helpful,.
F
Thank
you,
chair
timon.
We've
heard
a
lot
about
the
over
the
past
six
seven
months
or
so.
Since
I
first
came
on
the
license
licensing
committee
about
the
stack
guidance.
What
is
it
the
2020
stack
guidance
specifically
with
regard
to
how
our
responsibilities
to
keep
public
safe.
I
wondered
whether
or
not
that's
that
guidance
includes
responsibilities
and
the
council
and
the
licensing
department
to
to
support
those
working
within
the
trade
to
ensure
that
they're
safe
as
well.
F
You've
touched
on
some
of
the
things
that
you've
been
doing
in
terms
of
providing
screens
and
and
some
other
sort
of
introductory
training
as
well,
which
seems
to
sort
of
support
taxi
drivers
to
be
aware
of
people
that
might
be
violent
and
aggressive.
But
I
wondered
what
the
stat
guidance
says
about
keeping
people
working
in
the
trade
safe,
whether
we're
compliant
about
that
and
to
go
further
than
that.
What
what
else
we're
doing
to
to
ensure
that
that
people
working
in
this
really
vital
industry
are
safe
and
free
from
abuse.
A
H
Yeah,
thank
you
councillor.
I
think
the
statutory
guidance
contained
30
sections,
not
one
of
them,
is
entitled
keeping
drivers
safe.
I
think
there
are
two
areas
that
are
specifically
relevant.
One
is
around
that
engagement,
consultation,
communication
with
stakeholders,
but
also
trade
trade
groups
as
well,
and
we
match
up
very
well
to
the
statutory
guidance,
even
though
it
has
been
a
challenge
with
with
sort
of
reduced
opportunities
for
face-to-face
meetings.
I
would
say
in
the
last
three
months
we've
had
more
face-to-face
meetings
around
taxi
and
private
hire
issues.
H
Probably
the
majority
of
council
services
around
that,
sometimes
in
a
a
very
constructive
way.
Other
times
it's
been
quite
quite
a
difficult
discussion.
I
think
the
area
that
probably
is
most
relevant
and
most
important
going
forward
is
around
cctv
in
vehicles,
particularly
I'm
not
sure
that
there's
a
lot
in
the
statutory
guidance
around
safety
screens
and
adaptations
to
vehicles,
but
there's
three
pages
and
statutory
guidance
around
cctv
and
very
much
if
we
hadn't
had
locked
lockdown
the
next.
H
The
next
policy
improvement
we
would
have
done
would
have
been
to
consult
on
on
a
revised,
updated
cctv,
and
I
think
it's
one
of
those
areas
where
passengers
want
it.
Drivers
want
it,
operators
want
it,
and
I
think
the
council,
as
the
licensing
authority,
wants
it
as
well.
H
The
the
challenging
part
is
how
you
fund
it
and
also
particularly
how
you
get
the
data
from
the
cameras
and
that's
that's
the
the
tricky
discussion
with
information
management
around
around
how
you
do
it
so
there's
not
a
there's,
not
a
great
deal
I'll
go
back
to
the
to
the
statutory
guidance
counselor
and
just
and
just
pull
out
the
relevant
sections.
It's
it's
quite.
It
doesn't
mention
a
lot
on
specifically
about
license
holder
safety,
but
that's
something
that
we
can.
We
can
do
with
that
another.
A
Thank
you
for
that,
and
I
think
this
is
a
genuine
problem.
I
think
the
trade
has
has
raised
this,
that
no,
they
are
dealing
with
people
who
are
sometimes
incredibly
drunk
can
be
violent,
can
be
aggressive,
can
be
abusive,
can
be
do
bearing
in
mind
the
demographic
of
the
trade
as
some
sometimes,
let's
be
blunt,
racist
towards
the
people
that
are
actually
taking
them
home.
A
Councillor
cooper
has
already
committed
to
the
trade
in
the
meetings
that
we've
been
having
the
trade
to
use
her
position
as
the
executive
board
member
who
also
covers
public
safety
and
work
with
partners
in
safe
for
leads
and
the
police.
To
look
at
how
we
address
this
because
there
is,
there
is
an
issue
the
drivers
are
under
risk.
Let's
not
pretend
that
they're
not,
but
the
government's
guidance
is
completely
utterly
totally
100
focused
on
the
passenger
and
that
guidance
has
only
got
tougher
between
2010
and
2020.
A
For
those
of
you
who
have
invested
yourself
in
the
wonders
of
statutory
guidance
from
the
government,
you
look
at
the
2010
best
practice
guidance.
It
was
much
more
if
you
will
balanced
is
probably
a
word
to
have
it
around
different
challenges.
The
2020
guidance
is
very
much
it's
all
about
the
passenger,
pretty
much
nothing
else.
You
do
not
consider
anything
else
as
a
city
that
we
are.
A
So
there
is
a
commitment
from
council
cooper
already
to
really
look
at
how
we
can
use
the
other
partnerships
we
have
in
the
council
and
the
other
parts
of
the
council's
infrastructure
to
really
look
at
how
we
move
forward
on
driver
safety-
and
I
I
please
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
from
the
trade
members
out
here.
I
you
know,
I
think,
that's
a
commitment,
long
overdue
and
that's
something
we
do
really
really
want
to
work
on.
A
They
are
a
vital
part
of
our
city's
nighttime
economy
in
particular,
and
they
are
dealing
with
some
people
that
some
of
us
would
not
like
to
deal
with
during
the
day
if
they
were
that
liberated.
So
it's
very
much
on
the
agenda
any
other
questions
for
andrew
or
comments.
Is
it
a
follow-up
or
is
it
a
new
one?
Can
I
bring
in
councillor
flynn
first
because
he
has
another
chance
to
speak
to
council
flint.
I
Okay,
just
a
question:
first
paul.
Let
me
come
back
to
comments.
Okay,
on
page
34,
andrew
roadside
inspections
enforcement,
only
three
percent
of
the
1200
vehicles
that
were
inspected
were
licensed
by
other
authorities
and
I
suspect,
there's
a
lot
more
than
three
percent
of
cross-border
traffic
into
leeds.
I
wonder
why
so
few
foreign
vehicles
are
being
checked
compared
to
our
own,
particularly
as
their
the
requirements
they
have
in
terms
of
driving
and
vehicle
conditions
are
not
as
stringent
as
ours.
H
Yeah,
I
was
disappointed
with
the
figures
that
we've
recorded,
I
think,
to
to
factor
in
there.
A
lot
of
the
operations
where
we
would
check
out
out
of
town
vehicles
as
well
are
conducted
in
partnership
with
other
agencies.
So
if
these
vehicles
were
also
checked
by
the
police
or
also
checked
by
vosa
and
elsewhere,
we
won't.
We
won't
record
those
inspections
so
that
we've
got
a
a
joint
operation.
This
this
friday
and
a
week
on
friday,
and
we
may
well
check
50
vehicles
each
day
those
days.
H
But
we
will
only
report
on
our
system
at
the
vehicles
that
our
officers
inspect
and
that
may
well
be
that
that
the
police
or
or
other
agencies
have
first
call
on
those
vehicles.
I
would
be
wanting
that
to
be
nearer
for
four
or
five
hundred
vehicles
per
year,
rather
than
34
good
34.,
how
to
town
vehicles,
yeah
34.
so
so
for
us
particularly.
H
We
would
certainly
want
to
do
at
least
one
operation
every
month
to
get
to
get
those
to
get
those
figures
higher
to
make
sure
that
we're
clear
to
be
very
clear.
The
majority
of
those
actions
in
amber
rectification,
notices
divide
by
the
vehicle
condition.
They
are
actions
for
that
licensing
authority,
so
we
would
then
be
talking
to
the
neighboring
authority
and
that
would
go
in
their
licensing
system
as
their
own
action.
So
absolutely
I
absolutely
agree
in
terms
of
that.
We
want
to
have
a
higher
number,
approximately
double
roadside
vehicle
inspections.
H
We
want
to
have
much
higher,
maybe
up
to
10
times
as
high
in
terms
of
the
the
out
of
town
vehicles
inspected
during
2022.
I
The
question
andrew
was:
why
have
we
done
so
many
enforcement
actions,
or
so
few
rather
enforcement
actions
on
out-of-town
vehicles.
H
Well,
we
haven't
been
enforcing
five
nights
a
week.
We've
had
other
duties
for
enforcement
officers
to
do
as
part
of
the
overall
licensing
approach
I
mentioned
about
things
like
badge,
printing
and
so
on
enforcement
officers
have
been
printing,
badges
enforcement
officers
have
been
answering
phone
calls
so
to
some
degree
the
enforcement
capacity
has
been
about
50
60
compared
to,
and
what
would
be
would
be
the
position
in
a
normal
year.
H
That's
not
the
case
now,
so
those
enforcement
officers
now
are
fully
occupied
on
enforcement
activities
and
then
linked
to
that
we've
had
far
fewer
joint
operations.
I
think
the
first
joint
operation
we
did
in
2021
was
in
july
in
york,
so
and
again
that
that
would
include
our
officers,
helping
york
and
other
authorities
to
look
to
look
at
their
vehicles.
But
again,
if
that
is
picked
up
by
the
police,
not
by
our
officers.
H
Our
officers
are
busy
on
a
joint
operation,
but
that
may
well
not
be
logged
by
us
as
our
our
vehicle
that
we've
inspected.
A
I
I
think
that
the
point
counselor
from
this
may
be
going
to
is:
maybe
we
need
to
get
that
data
so
that
we
actually
understand
if
there's
other
partners
doing
this
and
we're
not
colliding
that
data.
It
makes
it
look
like
we're
not
doing
this,
particularly
for
the
trade
as
well,
for
them
to
have
confidence
that
those
enforcement
agreements
that
we
have
across
borders
is
actually
being
looked
at.
So
is
there
a
way
of
speaking
with
our
parents.
A
H
Absol
absolutely-
and
I
think
again,
2021
was
a
very
disrupted
year.
We
are
absolutely
planning
now
more
frequent
joint
operations
and
to
get
that
summary
of
it
is
difficult
because
we've
got
a
spreadsheet
where
we
just
look
at
the
vehicles
that
are
that
our
officers
inspect.
So
it
would
be
relevant
for
us
to
get
that
that
that
report
back
from
other
agencies,
we
certainly
don't
want
to
double
count
those
vehicles
as
well.
We
don't
want
to
give
the
impression
of
inspecting
twice
as
many
again.
A
No,
I
just
think
it
would
give
confidence
for
everyone
that
actually
out
town
vehicles
are
being
inspected
as
part
of
the
harmonization
agreement
that
was
put
in
place
and
I'm
seeing
the
trade
nodding
their
head
there
quite
positively
towards
that.
So
I
take
it.
That's
something
we
probably
need
to
look
at
any
other
question
I'll
cancel
how
much
other
questions.
G
Yeah,
thank
you,
chair,
I'd
just
like
to
make
a
comment.
Millions
of
journeys
are
made
every
year
and
I'd
like
to
put
that
on
record.
Obviously
any
complaint
is
a
complaint
too
many,
but
you
know
794
out
of
the
millions
of
passengers
that
are
served
by
the
taxi
drivers
and
the
trade
in
the
city,
and
I'm
sure
all
of
us
have
used
it
and
our
loved
ones
and
people
particularly
who
are
vulnerable,
are
in
their
hands
and
they
take
them
to
safety.
G
I
would
like
to
thank
the
trade
for
doing
a
wonderful
job
that
they're
doing
as
well,
because
it's
a
very
thankless
job
and
and
they're
putting
their
lives
at
risks,
and
I
think
we
we.
I
cannot
personally
thank
them
enough
once
my
what
my
mother
was
very
ill
and
the
way
you
know
she
was
taken
care
of
I
can.
I
cannot
thank
thank
them
enough
for
that.
Thank
you.
A
Let's
be
frank:
99.999
of
drivers
on
the
road
are
doing
the
right
thing:
the
decent
people,
the
working,
hard,
they're,
doing
a
difficult
job
and
I
suppose,
from
a
regulator's
perspective,
we
always
probably
sometimes
focus
too
heavily
on
when
things
go
wrong,
but
I
think
you're
right
to
say
when
there
are
millions
of
journeys
being
taken,
there's
I
think
it's
just
over
six
thousand
licensed
on,
or
maybe
it's
like
less
than
that
people
in
the
city.
You
actually
look
at
the
statistics.
A
The
suspensions
revocations
we're
talking
about
an
absolute
tg
minority,
and
I
think
you
know
we
have
a
tendency
in
this
to
always
focus
on
the
negative.
I
think
sometimes
we
do
need
to
actually
talk
about
the
positive
which
is
they're
doing
an
incredibly
difficult
hard
job,
that
some
people
don't
want
to
do
in
difficult
circumstances,
and
most
of
them
are
good
eggs
and
they're.
Just
out
there
earning
an
income
for
their
family,
so
I
think
the
comments
are
appreciated.
I'm
sure
the
trade
appreciates
those
comments
as
well
any
other
questions
or
comments.
A
It's
very
much
appreciated
there
we
go.
I
like
choose
that
mike
straight
away
better
than
heckling.
I
like
that
any
other
questions
or
comments.
Counselor
flint.
I
Thanks
again
paul
first
one
is
just
a
typo,
I
think
on
page
39,
the
paragraph
that's
the
the
year
ahead.
It
begins
within
2021,
which
I
think
should
be
2022.
I
at
the
beginning
of
the
report.
I'll
paraphrase
it,
it
talks
about
this
report
as
a
testament
to
how
licensing
has
kept
the
trade
moving
during
covid,
and
I
think
I
would
like
to
ask
their
view
the
trade
their
views
on
that
before
we
actually
commit
ourselves
to
it.
I
think
I'd
like
to
comment
on
what's
not
in
the
report
rather
than
what's
in
it,
there's
no
mention
of
what
is
currently
probably
the
worst
relationship
between
officers
in
the
trade.
I
Certainly
in
my
years
on
licensing
we've
had
any
number
of
demonstrations
outside
the
civic
hall
in
the
civic
hall
in
the
council
chamber
and
atari
road
dating
back
a
couple
of
years
and
certainly
spilling
over
into
into
the
current
year.
I
I
The
comment
on
communications,
if
my
texts,
telephone
calls
and
emails
from
the
trade
or
anything
to
go
by
the
dissatisfaction
is,
is
huge.
I
I
mean
it's,
it's
really
a
day
or
two
goes
past
without
I
get
a
message
of
one
source
or
another
and
sometimes
a
number
on
the
same
day,
all
of
it's
reflecting
a
lack
of
of
confidence
in
in
vle,
a
lack
of
confidence
in
the
way
in
which
they're
dealt
with
and
the
courtesy
in
which
they're
dealt
with
even
allowing
for
the
worst
effects
of
covid,
which
I'll
agree,
certainly
we've
all
been
under
a
huge
amount
of
pressure
on
officers
no
less,
but
we
are
talking
about,
as
paul
has
already
mentioned,
an
absolutely
essential
part
of
the
nighttime
economy
here
in
leeds
there's.
I
A
brief
mention
of
the
convictions
policy,
which
is
now,
I
think,
into
its
third
year
of
discussion.
Second
set
of
consultation
should
have
been
discussed.
I
think
at
the
executive
board
two
months
ago
and
has
been
put
back,
and
I
see
it's
on
the
forward
work
program
for
may.
I
That's
assuming
the
analysis
of
the
responses
is
acceptable.
This
time.
I
think
that
really
should
have
been
in
there's
no
mention
of
the
interminable
harmonization
group,
which
I
think
is
now
to
its
sixth
year,
and
I
suspect
the
furore
of
the
convictions
policy
will
pale
into
insignificance
when
the
discussions
eventually
move
on
to
vehicle
conditions.
I
No
mention
of
potential
safeguarding
risks
posed
by
mainly
the
map,
the
the
app
element
of
the
private
higher
trade.
Tens
of
thousands
of
bookings
are
being
returned.
That
means
they've
been
accepted
by
a
driver
and
then
refused
to
pick
up,
but
no
one's
bothered
to
tell
the
customer
waiting
on
the
side
of
the
road,
probably
because
they've
identified
a
more
lucrative
fare
apart
from
breaching
the
contract
between
the
customer
and
the
operator.
This
means
that
more
many
vulnerable
fairs
men,
women
and
children
are
being
left
at
the
roadside
without
without
any
protection
whatsoever.
I
I
don't
think
I
need
to
emphasize
the
inherent
safeguarding
dangers
in
this
practice,
and
I
know
that's
been
discussed
at
licensing
recently,
and
I
think
this
was
brought.
I
brought
it
the
attention
of
debbie
some
months
ago
and
in
my
view
the
report
is
a
data
set.
It's
not
an
annual
report
and
it
ignores
the
current
dissatisfaction
of
the
trade
with
officers
thanks
paul.
A
A
I
get
the
point
you
mentioned
that
sorry,
perhaps
political
is
the
wrong
word.
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
there
have
been
lots
of
conversations
and
there
has
been
tension.
There's
no
point
in
pretending
there
hasn't
been.
I
look,
but
I
look
at
where
we
were
10
months
ago
to
where
we
are
now.
A
I
look
at
10
months
ago
when
I
first
became
the
chair
and
I
was
getting
not
just
one,
not
two,
not
three
but
four
or
five
complaints
about
vehicle
inspections.
Every
day
sin,
even
though
it's
not
been
completely
finalized.
Since
we've
introduced
a
slightly
new
approach
and
simplified
approach
in
torrey
road,
I've
had
one
in
four
weeks,
I'm
now
getting
more
complaints
about
capacity
getting
drivers
in
to
get
their
vehicles
inspected.
A
We're
now
looking
at
actually
how
we
do
that.
I
had
a
conversation
with
one
of
the
association
chairs
a
couple
weeks
ago
about
an
idea
about
bringing
in
some
of
their
mot
advisors,
to
look
at
what
the
examiners
look
like,
so
that
they
can
do
pre-checks,
because
it
turns
out
30
to
40
of
the
appointments
that
happen
at
torrey
road.
Are
people
going
basically
have
a
pre-check
to
see
what
they
need
to
do?
Then
they
get
it
fixed.
That
causes
capacity.
A
Issues
for
everyone
with
councilor
cooper
has
found
funds
to
begin
the
digitization
of
the
service,
which
will
take
cap
takeaway
capacity
issues,
but
yes,
there's
tension
and
anything
else.
You're
referring
to
the
suitability,
convictions,
policy.
A
We're
arguing
over
over
a
date
now,
we've
agreed
as
a
council
that
the
schedule
for
the
suitability
policy
to
be
reviewed
is
2024.,
we're
arguing
over
whether
that
should
be
done
sooner
or
later
now,
and
that's
literally,
where
we're
arguing
that
we're
pretty
much
arguing
over
a
date.
We
certainly
can't
do
it
before.
We've
finished
the
minor
motoring,
convictions,
consultation
and,
and
just
typically
the
reason
why
that
was
delayed
is
we
had
an
unprecedented
volume
of
response
and
actually
a
lot
of
it
didn't
just
touch
on
minor
motoring
convictions.
A
It
touched
on
other
areas
that
drivers
have
concerned
with
and
there's
an
actual
genuine
want
to
address
those.
So
we
have
a
list
of
concerns
that
drivers
have
given
us
in
terms
of
the
current
suitability
policy,
which
our
legal
team
and
our
licensing
team
are
now
working
through.
So
then
the
question
becomes
if
there
is-
and
it's
not
my
decision
to
make.
If
there
is
an
earlier
review
of
a
pre-existing
policy,
it's
a
which
bit
do
it.
A
Do
we
do
it
now
or
do
we
do
it
after
we've
had
consultations
with
the
drivers
over
the
bits
they've
got
concerned
with
over
the
minor
motoring
convictions,
because
then
we're
talking
about
a
slightly
different
policy
to
what
actually
exists
at
the
moment,
because
we've
made
amendments
to
it,
and
I
think
we
just
need
to
reflect
on
that.
There
is
no
disagreement
about
reviewing
this
policy,
we're
just
disagreeing
on
the
date
and
that's
a
very
different
position.
I
think
to
12
months
ago,
when
there
wasn't
even
really
a
conversation
of
reviewing
the
policy.
A
A
We
have
concentrated-
and
I
know
there's
been
some
frustration
in
the
trade
and
understandable
frustration,
but
we've
concentrated
on
what
cost
drivers
money
we've
concentrated
on
making
sure
we
get
our
minor,
scuffs
and
bumps
policy
right,
because
I
don't
want
drivers
not
being
out
on
the
road
when
there's
nothing
affecting
public
safety,
we're
looking
at
capacity
we're
looking
at
the
vehicle
conditions.
So
that
we
can
address
the
long-standing
issues
of
tinted
windows
and
boot
capacity
and
vehicle
standards
and
what
type
of
vehicles
we
like
these
are
complicated.
A
A
My
main
focus
is
public
safety
in
the
one
hand,
but
doing
so
in
a
way
which
is
fair
and
reasonable
to
the
trade,
so
they
are
not
having
unreasonable
expectations
put
upon
them,
which
are
not
directly
related
to
public
safety.
That
is
councillor
cooper's
direction.
On
this
we've
had
many
conversations,
I'm
sure
officers
will
agree
around
making
sure
that
the
focus
is
is
on
finding
solutions
and
I'll
give
a
prime
example
a
six-seater
van
there's,
an
issue
with
it.
A
A
There
is
no
hiding
from
us
in
any
way
that
there
have
been
problems,
but
we
are
slowly
getting
through
them
and
we
will
continue
conversations
with
the
trade.
I
hope
the
trade
feel
they've
had
better
relations
in
the
last
10
months
that
we
are
starting
to
work
through
things
mike's
nodding
there,
which
I
appreciate.
Thank
you
mike
and
I'll,
bring,
maybe
mike
in
a
moment
just
to
maybe
say
his
piece.
A
K
Right,
thank
you.
There
has
been
problems
in
the
past.
We've
talked
about
an
awful
lot
today
with
regards
to
things
that
have
happened
since
kobe
kobe
has
caused
everybody.
A
lot
of
problems,
including
us,
including
licensing
we've,
had
to
adapt.
We've
had
to
manage
andrew's
touched
on
the
position
with
the
drivers.
K
My
company,
I'm
struggling,
I'm
50
drivers
now
just,
however,
so
everybody
is
struggling
with
drivers.
As
john
has
said,
it's
it's
it's
prevalent
throughout
the
whole
country,
it's
very,
very
difficult
to
employ
drivers
that,
as
has
been
said,
they've
gone
into
other
industries
which
causes
the
whole
trader
problem,
not
just
our
company,
but
all
companies
and
the
problem
also
being
is
that
because
there's
not
enough
drivers,
customers
don't
have
enough
vehicles
you're
right
what
you
say.
K
K
Maybe
we
should
be
looking
at
the
rate
what
the
driver
earns
on
a
fair,
maybe
a
fair
increase
at
some
later
stage,
but
that
will
take
place
as
a
suggestion
when
we
talk
to
hackney
carriage
licensing
department
to
look
for
a
fair
review,
but
as
for
the
whole
trade
recently,
there
has
been
a
very,
very
low
point,
but
recently
we've
had
good
response
from
both
council
array
and
councillor
cooper.
K
We
are
very
concerned
about
the
suitability
policy,
don't
just
think,
because
the
suitability
policy
has
been
spoken
about
that.
The
conviction
policy
is
not
thought
about
either
because
they
go
together.
The
whole
suitability
policy,
in
our
opinion
we
think
he's
advisory,
but
you
you
are
aware
of
our
opinion,
our
opinion.
K
We
think
that
the
the
previous
convictions
policy
could
be
tailored
or
sorted
out,
so
it's
similar
to
the
current
suitability
policy
with
a
bit
of
common
sense.
Our
belief
is
that
it's
too
vague
it
could
be
misinterpreted
at
times.
K
Andrew
may
go
on
to
better
things,
and
licensing
offices
may
go
on
to
better
things
and
you've
got
to
consider
the
continuity
of
the
policy
when
other
people
take
over,
because
if
somebody
pinches
a
bike
at
16
years
of
age
or
something
similar,
you
don't
want
that
to
affect
how
why
somebody
doesn't
get
a
license.
K
So
it
needs
something
in
it.
But
relations
have
definitely
increased,
got
better.
Since
we've
been
talking
about
it
and
I'm
hoping
in
the
future,
we
can
resolve
the
issues
that
we've
got
amicably,
so
that
we're
all
in
a
position
of
being
agreeable.
We
don't
want
murderers
and
rapists
in
the
trade.
We
want
people
to
rely
on
good
drivers
to
make
sure
that
the
customers
are
well
looked
after
and
we
want
that
to
continue,
but
we
don't
want
draconian
rules.
We
think
that's
incorrect.
A
Thank
you
for
that
and
yeah.
I
know
there's
this
screen
run
on
on
the
advisory,
but
the
joys
of
the
due
regard
yeah,
but
no,
I
I
think
it
just
to
to
demonstrate
to
committee
members
actually
just
people
watching
this,
because
there
will
be
people
that
part
of
this
video
that
it's
not
all
doom
and
gloom,
there's
a
lot
going
on
in
the
background,
and
actually
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
focusing
on
what
cost
drivers
money,
because
we
don't
actually
to
spend
a
lot
of
drivers.
A
We
don't
actually
revoke
a
lot
of
drivers.
We
still
need
to
look
at
that
and
I'm
just
going
to
mention
two
things
that
have
been
agreed
as
part
of
that
as
a
stop
gap
before
full
policy
for
you
in
a
moment
since
it
it's
been
raised
about
the
the
issues,
but
there
is
work
going
on
to
try
and
make
drivers
lives
easier,
and
I
just
want
to
reflect
on
some
of
the
things
we
have
agreed
recently.
A
There
are
some
details
still
to
be
sorted
out,
but
around
minor
bumps
and
scratches
and
that
well,
we
have
now
a
real,
clear
direction
that
we
do
not
expect
drivers
to
be
taken
off
the
road
unless
it's
dangerous.
As
I've
said,
my
complaints
have
disappeared
over
that
pretty
much
overnight.
We're
now
working
on
the
capacity
issue
we've
agreed.
Haven't
we
at
meetings
to
look
at
the
types
of
vehicles
that
will
allow
to
be
licensed
and
andrew's
already
committed
to
put
some
off
the
time
site
to
go
down
to
the
trade
fairs.
A
I've
even
agreed
to
go
down
and
look
at
the
trade
fairs
so
that
we
can
try
and
improve
the
standard
of
vehicles.
We've
agreed
to
do
a
full
vehicle
review.
We've
agreed
actually-
and
I
think
it
comes
to
the
fundamental
question
of
trust-
to
do
a
decision-making
review
to
look
at
our
decision-making
policy,
because,
actually
that's
where
a
lot
of
this
routes
from
should
it
be
officers?
Should
it
be
counselors?
Should
it
be
a
mixture
of
both
you
know,
so
I
I
there
is.
A
There
is
way
to
go,
and
I-
and
you
know,
I
think
again,
it's
fair
to
say
we're
more,
probably
likely
arguing
over
a
date
now,
rather
than
anything
else,
which
is
like
say
a
different
world
than
we
were.
I
am
not
hiding
from
the
fact
that
there
are
tensions.
Councillor
cooper
is
not
hiding
from
other
attentions,
but
we
have
been
laser
focused
on
what
cost
drivers
money.
Now
that
we've
got
some
of
those
temporary
fixes
in
place.
We
are
going
to
start
to
look
at
those
issues.
A
Drivers
are
raised
around
the
policies
and
try
and
find
a
way
to
fold
because
the
city
needs
the
trade
and
the
trade
needs
the
city.
They
want
to
go
out
and
earn
an
income.
We
want
them
to
go
out
there
and
pick
up
people
who
are
vulnerable
in
a
way
that
actually
some
other,
like
the
bus
operators
won't.
So
again,
just
to
echo
council
almas's
point
earlier,
I
think
it's
you
know.
We
should
all
thank
the
trade
for
the
huge
amount
of
work
they
do
in
difficult
circumstances.
A
It's
going
to
be
a
long
haul
in
some
cases,
but
the
intention
to
get
it
done
is
there
and
I'm
looking
forward
if
I'm
still
sat
here
in
may,
as
licensing
chair
to
be
working
with
the
trade
and
officers
and
this
committee
to
actually
do
those
reviews
that
will
actually
make
a
difference
to
drivers
on
a
day-to-day
basis
and
the
things
that
yes
important,
that
we
guarantee
public
safety
that
we
do
so
in
a
fair
and
reasonable
way,
which
means
we
do
what
we
need
to
do
legally,
but
we
don't
inadvertently
impact
drivers
unnecessarily
on
that.
A
K
Can
I
just
add
that
I
think
it's
been
a
a
wonderful
thing
that
yourself
and
councillor
cooper
have
done
to
introduce
the
working
parties.
I
think
it's
imperative
that
other
than
the
trade
meetings
we
have
with
andrew
and
his
team.
I
think
those
are
usual
every
three
four
months
they've,
they
haven't
happened
as
much
because
we've
covered,
but
recently
we
started
them
in
the
meeting.
K
But
I
think
the
meetings
that
you
yourself
and
councillor
cooper
have
introduced
gives
the
trade
a
direct
communication
with
councillors
and
yourself
to
put
our
issues
forward,
and
I
hope,
even
if
hopefully
you're
still
here
today,
all
of
you,
let's
hope
that
that
will
continue
because
working
together,
if
you
said
we
can't
do
without
the
city
and
the
city
can't
do
without
us,
and
the
only
way
to
really
move
forward
is
to
continue
the
discussions
with
the
council
in
regular
working
parties
so
that,
if
we
feel
as
though
it's
going
off
track
a
little
bit,
we
can
sort
of
bring
you
back
in
line.
A
I
know
that
bombshell
any
other
questions.
I've
covered
yet
counselor
flint.
I
The
point
I
was
making
paul
was
that
it's
not
in
the
report,
not
the
things
where
it's
improving
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
Okay,.
A
A
So
we
have
a
more
rounded
thing:
it's
not
just
the
facts
and
figures,
but
actually
what's
the
flavor
the
mood
music
shall
we
say,
but
I
think-
and
I
think
everyone
agrees
we're
in
a
different
place
where
we
were
10
months
ago
and
long
may
that
continue
and
improve
and
speak
to
councillors
about
keeping
me
in
my
job,
I
know
and
again
on
that
everyone's
laughing
and
on
that
one.
Is
there
any
other
questions
or
comments
before
I
close
the
meeting
yeah
andrew.
H
Yeah,
just
just
a
very
very
brief
update
on
council
flynn's
mention
of
safeguarding,
so
I
don't
think
every
member
of
the
committee
would
have
would
have
read
this.
We
had
a
report
from
visu
and
visa
were
a
national
private
hire
operator
and
they
provided
some
quite
concerning
statistics
around
the
pattern
of
drivers
who
are
licensed
with
more
than
one
operator
cherry
picking
journeys,
and
there
was
one
example-
was
the
driverhood
refused
1200
journeys
around
that
and
again
it's
interesting.
It's
linked
to
west
yorkshire
and
york
harmonization.
H
Two
of
our
neighboring
authorities,
allow
drivers
to
work
for
more
than
one
operator
lead
city
council
doesn't
so
those
drivers
could
drive
in
leeds,
but
they
wouldn't
be
licensed
by
lead,
so
that
concern
around
cherry
picking
or
refusing
journeys
is
very
real
out
there.
But
it's
not
something
that
applies
to
leeds
licensed
drivers
if
that
makes
sense,
but
particularly
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
safeguarding,
and
particularly
in
it
again
back
to
the
the
the
sort
of
grim
focus
on
on
on
on
passengers
and
so
on.
H
We
are
directed
to
have
a
focus
on
passengers
and
vulnerable
passengers
and
exactly
as
paul
the
chair,
the
chair
has
said
there
our
focus
on
those
those
passengers
who,
by
very
their
very
nature,
are
likely
to
be
vulnerable
or
at
risk
or
because
they're
in
the
nighttime
economy
they
and
they're
vulnerable
or
at
risk
at
the
end,
at
the
end
of
the
night,
when
they
want
to
go
home,
so
we
always
want
to
have
a
focus
on
those
as
well,
so
we
don't
take
safeguarding
issues
lightly.
H
The
number
of
very,
very
serious
allegations
against
license
holders
is
very,
very,
very
small,
we're
talking
about
a
handful
per
year,
maybe
20
or
maybe
30
in
terms
of
that.
So
just
to
echo
that
point,
we
know
that
the
vast
majority
of
license
holders
are
fit
and
proper
are
safe
and
suitable
can
be
trusted
to
put
your
vulnerable
loved
family
member
in
in
their
vehicle.
I
think
we
had
a
trade
meeting
where
we
said
we
we
might
find
it
difficult
to
regulate
taxing
private
hire
trade
good
job.
H
We
don't
have
to
regulate
the
passengers,
that's
a
really,
you
know
really
really
challenging
area.
So,
just
just
to
sort
of
reassure
you
on
the
safe
on
the
safeguarding
side
of
things
just
before.
A
I
bring
counseling,
it's
got
a
point.
I
think
the
the
issue
with
the
people,
cherry
picking
journeys
is
something
we
we
are
acutely
aware
of,
and
going
to
pick
up
on
some
of
the
policy
reviews,
because
it's
there
was
one
person.
I
think
that
refused
127
percent
of
the
journeys
they
got,
they
spent
anything
there's
like
they
spent
three
or
four
hours
a
day.
Refusing
journeys
to
cherry
pick
the
one
that
cost
the
most
so
anyway,
council
flynn.
I
H
Okay,
to
be
very
clear,
we
do
know
that
we
have
got
journeys
that
people
are
booking
that
are
not
being
honored.
What
we're
not
finding
is
evidence
of
a
systematic
pattern
of
people
playing
off
one
operator
with
another,
so
leeds
licensed
drivers
can
only
be
licensed
with
one
operator
at
a
time,
so
you
cannot
have
that
position
where
you're
licensed
with
both
uber
and
visu,
which
was
the
I
think
the
example
that
we
have.
I
think
the
drive
was
in
south
wales.
Wasn't
it
the
the
with
the
enormous
enormous
percentage
of
these?
H
This
is
national
intelligence
that
gives
us
that
that
that
information
across
dozens
of
authority,
I
think
visas
licensed
in
30,
30,
30
authorities
and
leads,
is
unusual
in
that
it
doesn't
allow
people
to
be
licensed
by
more
than
one
operator.
In
fact,
that's
come
up
in
one
of
the
in
one
of
the
trade
moves.
The
drivers
want
to
be
licensed
by
more
than
one
operator
and
the
leads
we've
we've
either
historically
resisted
it
or
we've.
H
We've
we've
thought
that
there
were
concerns
around
well,
who
actually,
how
you
know
you're
more
likely
to
have
a
booking
cancelled.
We
absolutely
do
have
a
pattern
of
complaints
in
2021
from
people
who
said
I
I
ordered
a
vehicle
and
it
didn't
turn
up
for
one
reason
or
another
and
that's
idea
and
that's
not
necessarily
a
complaint
against
the
driver.
That's
a
complaint.
H
I
A
I
think,
maybe
to
pick
that
open
the
the
presentation
we
had
was
is
that
people
are
doing
it
under
the
radar
so
they're
having
multiple
apps
and
that
I
think
we
raised
our
72-hour
rule
for
changing
an
operator
and
then
sometimes
they're
using
our
own
existing
policies.
I
think
was
over
10
years
ago,
and
actually
we're
probably
going
to
need
to
look
at
some
of
our
own
policies
around
actually
how
people
can
move
between
operators
what's
happening
under
the
surface.
A
The
operator
condition
review
will
look
around
things
like
that,
but
maybe
there
may
need
to
be
things
in
there
around.
Actually
not
just
the
operator
honoring,
the
booking,
but
maybe
the
drive,
there's
a
whole
series
of
things
that
actually,
because
some
of
the
statistics
are,
I
do
to
be
fair.
I
had
it.
Yesterday
myself,
I
booked
a
booked,
a
taxi,
it
canceled
the
third
kicked
in
and
I
got
the
same
driver.
A
G
Thank
you,
chair.
Just
a
quick
comment.
I
mean
living
in
the
most
cctv
country
in
the
world.
I
think
it
it
would
be
a
win-win
situation
for
everybody,
I'm
not
saying
that
it
should
be
compulsory,
but
if
we
could
incentivize
as
a
council
perspective,
because,
obviously
you
know
the
taxi
trade
is
part
of
the
nighttime
economy
and
and
so
on.
If
we
could
incentivize
in
some
ways
and
help
them.
G
Obviously
the
technology
is
getting
cheaper
every
day
as
well
and
better
in
terms
of
installing
cctv
cameras,
because
I'm
sure
that
helps
everybody,
the
passengers,
the
drivers
and
it
would,
it
would
help
you
know
the
police
and
so
on.
So
it
would
help
everybody
all
consent,
but
we
as
a
council,
I
think
we
have
certain
obligation
in
terms
of
proactively
engaging
with
the
trade
industry
and
insulin
incentivizing,
some
of
that
technology
in
the
future
as
well.
Thank
you.
A
I
can
safely
say:
there's
lots
of
work
around
that
because
we
see
the
value
of
it,
particularly
for
a
lot
of
those
malicious
complaints
where
we
can
literally
look
at
the
video
and
it's
oh,
it's
malicious.
It's
dealt
with
and
it's
done
with.
I
think
the
issues
as
andrew
spoiler.
It's
not
actually
not
necessarily
the
camera
technology.
A
Now
it's
the
data,
storage
and
collection
that
we're
trying
to
go
because
there's
some
very
strict
rules
from
the
information
commissioner,
and
I
think
the
systems
we're
looking
at
around
that
would
cost
drivers
to
be
compliant
about
500
pounds
because
we
haven't
got
to
the
market
scale
yet.
But
it's
very
something
very
much.
I
think
everyone
agrees
would
be
beneficial
for
absolutely
everyone
us
from
enforcement,
prevent
malicious
complaints,
rolling
on
the
safety
for
the
drivers.
It's
it's
those
issues,
so
I
think
you
you're
pushing
that
comment
pushing
on
an
open
door.
K
K
K
The
problem
being
is
that
a
driver
can
log
on
to
two
separate
or
three
separate
apps,
and
can
cherry
pick
whichever
job
it
particularly
wants
to
do?
What
wants
to
carry
out?
That
is
a
problem
for
the
customer,
but
not
necessarily
for
the
driver,
because
at
this
moment
in
time
it's
a
driver's
market.
It's
not
a
customer's
market
and
drivers
can
choose
where
they
wish
to
work.
K
K
A
lot
of
operators
are
frightened
to
death
to,
shall
we
say,
restrict
drivers
in
particular
in
private
high
companies
to
stop
them
doing
this.
This
practice,
because
of
this
because
of
the
situation
where
uber
were
lost
the
court
case
because
they
were
then
in
clusters
employed
because
they
can
only
get
their
employment
from
the
app
that
uber
supplied.
K
So
therefore
they
got
their
rights
of
of
holiday,
pay
and
sick
pay,
etc,
etc.
Our
company,
which
is
a
solely
hackney
carriage
company,
was
taken
to
call,
and
we
are
the
only
con
company
in
the
country.
K
We
won
the
case
and
it
said
that
all
hackney
county's
company,
all
hackney
college
drivers,
are
not
employed
the
class
the
classes
self-employed,
because
hackney
cali's
taxi
has
the
opportunity
to
work
the
app
of
the
company
it
works
with
and
also
has
the
opportunity
to
pick
up
on
the
station
and
also
flag
downs
on
the
street.
So
he's
got
three
separate
choices
of
income.
K
So
therefore,
hackney
carriage
is
not
restricted
to
those
rules,
but
a
private
hire
is
and
a
lot
of
operators
are
very,
very
insecure
in
stopping
their
drivers,
cherry-picking
because
they
could
all
suffer
this
overruling
so
they're
very
reluctant
to
do
anything
about
it,
and
that
is
a
major
problem.
We've
got
in
this
city.
A
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
the
worker
status
ruling
is
well
acutely
won
by
our
legal
team,
because
I
think
the
second
it
came
through
paul
rob.
He
got
a
load
of
emails
from
me
yeah,
so
we
are
aware
of
it
and
it's
something
that
we
it
will
be
worked
through,
shall
we
say,
as
we
go
through
the
other
policy
rules,
which
is
one
reason
why
we
want
to
get
the
other
policy
reviews
done
because
we're
a
couple
of
years
behind
on
everything
we
need
to
do.
E
Yeah
just
one
final
point
and
I've
spoken
to
you
before
paul
about
consistency
of
decision
making
and
that's
something
that
drivers
have
written
to
me
about
in
particular,
and
I
welcome
the
changes
in
the
treatment.
For
example,
of
the
the
minor
body
work
issues
raised
and
the
distinction
between
minor
and
major
body
work.
But
could
you
please
explain
how
you're
going
to
ensure
the
consistency
of
decision
making
around
those
definitions
and
reasonable
time
to
get
things
fixed.
A
So
I
think
it's
one
of
the
first
things
that's
on
the
agenda
of
the
new
working
group,
just
to
figure
out
what
a
minor
dentist
or
a
minor
scratch
or
a
large
one,
and
then
that
will
obviously
inform
what
andrew
says
to
his
examination
team
in
the
garage
about
making
sure
that's
consistent,
so
that
can
be
kpi
to
manage
properly.
So
it's
literally
one
of
the
first
points
and
then
we'll
have
the
first
working
group
meeting
to
be
fair
to
anything.
Andrew
would
agree.
A
Since
we
started
these
conversations,
probably
about
six
seven
weeks
ago,
they've
completely
dropped
off
a
radar,
but
I
think
that
consistency
is
an
important
thing,
and
this
is
why
we
want
to
work
with
the
trade
to
find
out
what
they
feel
is
right
match
it
up
to
what
we
can
and
can't
do
in
terms
of
making
sure
things
are
safe
and
consistent
for
the
public
and
then
make
sure
that's
really
rooted
in
the
examiner's
mind
and
I
think,
on
general
decision
making.
You
know
the
stop
gap
we've
put
in
about
me.
A
There's
the
licensing
officers
making
sure
there's
a
real
golden
thread-
and
I
know
andrew,
is
also
really
keen
with
john
to
really
work
on
the
customer
service
side
as
well.
To
make
sure
it's
actually
a
really
customer
service
in
terms
of
the
driver
are
really
customer
service
side
towards
the
drivers
again,
the
aim
should
be
unless
it's
for
public
safety
reasons,
how
can
we
get
people
on
the
roads
to
earn
an
income
rather
than
finding
reasons
not
to
make
the
money
in
income?
Public
safety
will
always
be.
First,
there
is
no
debate.
A
There
is
no
question,
we're
required
by
statutory
guidance
and
actually
a
moral
duty
to
make
something
safe,
but
there's
consistency
on
those
other
things
so
that
we
can
get
drivers
back
on
the
road.
I
think
we
all
agree
would
make
life
easier
for
everyone
and
on
that,
are
there
any
other
questions
or
comments?
A
Okay,
so,
after
all
of
that
to
the
recommendation
do
remember,
our
members
are
part
of
the
report
recommendation
with
the
minor
the
changes
that
have
been
raised.
So
can
I
take
upon
that
with
the
minor
changes
that
have
been
agreed?
Are
we
surprised
recommendation
all
those
in
favor
all
those
against
abstentions?
That's
carried
unanimously
work
program.
Item
agenda
number
eight.
This
is
really
for
information
purposes,
you'll
see
in
may.
The
first
big
item
is
it
may
or
is
it
or
is
it?
A
Yeah
is
the
minor
motoring
convictions,
consultation
results
and
what
recommendation
we
will
make
to
the
executive
board
on
either
that
wording
provision
or
if
there's
any
comments,
we
want
around
the
wording,
provision
that
goes
to
executive
board
for
consideration,
jess.
J
E
G
C
Is
a
change
in
membership
by
then
groups
and
whips
should
know
about
that
good
in
good
time.
C
C
Will
be
some
consistency
in
members,
but
there
will
probably
be
some
new
members
as
well
or
members
who've
been
on
parental
leave
this
year,
who
are
returning,
etc.
So
maybe
it's
worth
between
the
elections
and
the
agm
and
that
licensing
committee
having
a
particular
briefing
and
you're
like
it's,
not
my
problem.
C
So
maybe
it's
just
something
to
put
opinion
and
pick
up
when
we
get
to
may
no.
A
I
think
that's
a
real
good
shot
and
then
I
think
I
was
I
was
I
was
speaking
to
robbie-
follow
me
inside
about
just
sitting
down
with
officers
just
to
double
check
the
kind
of
initial
training
kind
of
stuff
for
when
they
start
unless
they
can
make
those
changes
so
john
or
the
replacement
for
john
will
in
due
course
issue
that
accordingly
other
than
that
again,
he
says,
don't
forget
john,
but
I
mentioned
that
earlier:
let's
get
it,
let's
get
it.
A
I
mean
in
case
the
mean
goes
on
for
ages,
so
date
and
time
of
the
next
meeting
may
be,
including
a
small
kind
of
briefing
session
be
fine,
but
for
the
official
next
meeting
is
the
level
on
friday
the
27th
may
2022
at
10
a.m,
in
leeds
civic
hall,
and
that
concludes
today's
business.
Thank
you
for
your
attendance
contribution.
I
declare
the
meeting
closed
and
again
a
final
round
of
applause
for
john
and
his
retirement.
J
Thank
you
everyone,
just
just
before
we
depart
sorry
to
say
this.
We
still
require
two
members
for
15
for
march.
So
if
anybody's,
if
anybody's
available,
please
let
me
know,
I
think
we've
got
castle
buckley
volunteered
so
far,
so
I'm
still
after
another,
two
two
candidates,
it's
cross-case
ward,
so.