►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Well
good
afternoon,
everybody-
and
thank
you
very
much
for
attending
this
afternoon.
A
I
actually
think
everybody
around
the
table
knows
me,
but
I
am
the
new
chair
of
development
plans
panel
and
delighted
to
be
here
with
you
this
afternoon,
a
new
challenge
for
me
and
I'm
sure
it
will
be
a
new
challenge
for
you
as
well.
I'd
like
to
thank
the
former
chair,
councillor
walshaw,
who
has
chaired
this
actually
for
many
years.
A
I
I
can't
think
how
many
actually,
but
it's
quite
a
while,
isn't
it
since
he's
been
the
chair
and
we've
been
through
many
phases
and
very
many
difficult
issues
under
his
chairship
and
guidance.
So
I
would
like
that
recording
today's
meeting
is
being
live
streamed
on
the
city
council,
youtube
channel,
so
that
the
public
can
observe
the
meeting
without
the
need
to
be
present
and
I'd
like
to
ask
everybody
here
please
to
introduce
themselves.
As
I
have
said,
I'm
councillor,
caroline
gruen,
and
we
we
do
have
with
us
this
afternoon
for
work
experience.
A
A
G
Good
afternoon,
I'm
olivia
I'm
a
work
experience
student
here
today.
Thank
you.
I
Afternoon,
ian
mckay
team,
leader
policy
and
plans.
J
L
Good
afternoon
I'm
adam
harvat,
a
group
manager
for
policy
and
plans.
C
Yes,
apologies
for
being
like
chair
and
councilloractor's
on
his
way
as
well.
A
Thank
you
and
lucy
and
isaac
at
the
back
you're
not
near
a
microphone,
but
are
you
happy
I've
introduced
you
and
we
can
proceed?
Okay,
that's
lovely,
so
appeals
against
refusal,
inspection
documents
thanks
john,
it's
known,
exempt
information.
There's
no
example.
Thank
you.
Late
items,
there's
no
formalite
items
and
are
there
any
declarations
of
interest?
A
I
don't
see
any
and
apologies
for
absence.
I've
not
received
any
far
more
excellent
full
house,
so
we'll
go
through
the
minutes
if
you've
got
those
in
your
packs
in
the
usual
way
I'll.
Take
it
one
page
at
a
time
and
I'll
take
accuracy
and
matters
arising
together,
page
five
of
your
packs,
the
first
page
of
the
minutes.
L
Caroline
harrison
and
vash
bodiata
are
going
to
lead
us
with
a
presentation
today
so
I'll
hand
over
to
caroline.
First.
G
H
H
I'm
going
to
go
through
some
interesting
facts
about
this
consultation.
We
notified
approximately
a
thousand
consultees
with
each
15
000
social
media
accounts
through
the
city
council's
facebook
and
twitter
accounts.
The
consultation
was
highlighted
at
the
neighborhood
planning
meetings
held
during
the
consultation
period
covering
inner
areas
and
out
awards.
H
H
There
are
three
general
points
I
like
to
cover.
One
was
close
to
90
percent
supported
the
current
informative
format
of
the
sci.
It's
plain
english
and
clear
format.
This
is
66
percent
order
of
the
view
that
sci
is
is
of
the
is
the
right
length.
However,
34
of
the
respondents
felt
the
sci
was
still
too
long,
and
the
idea
of
having
consultation
principles
were
generally
supported
and
support
provided
for
the
neighborhood
planning
group
has
was
also
acknowledged
and
a
few
of
the
detail
points.
H
H
G
Thanks
bash,
we
are
pleased
that
we
had
a
reasonable
level
of
response
and
general
endorsement
to
the
document.
However,
the
consultees
highlighted
a
number
of
issues
that
have
been
helpful
to
revising
the
document.
The
revised
document
that
you
will
find
in
appendix
1
is
24
pages
long
and
divided
into
three
sections.
G
We
have
made
a
number
of
changes
that
we
hope
will
address
the
majority
of
the
points
made
in
order
to
address
the
use
of
planner
speak.
We
commissioned
a
member
of
the
comms
team
to
make
suggestions
to
improve
the
flow
of
the
document
and
highlight
any
areas
that
required
further
explanation
in
terms
of
reducing
the
length.
However,
the
sci
needs
to
contain
a
certain
amount
of
technical
information
to
fulfill
its
function
of
guiding
officers
carrying
out
consultation
to
comply
with
the
statutory
requirements,
and
we
struggled
to
reduce
it
by
any
significant
length.
G
As
vash
said,
a
number
of
respondents
asked
for
the
sdi
to
be
a
council-wide
requirement
for
all
departments
to
abide
by.
Whilst
we
don't
disagree
with
the
objective
of
improving
consistency
of
public
engagement
and
consultation
across
the
council,
we
do
not
consider
that
using
the
sdi
to
do
this
is
an
appropriate
solution.
G
The
sci
is
a
statutory
document
for
planning
services
and
the
detail
of
how
and
when
we
consult
is
very
specific,
applying
a
document
to
other
departments
who
have
had
no
input
into
its
production
and
does
not
fit
in
with
their
own
regulator.
Regulatory
requirements
and
resourcing
would
not
be
workable.
G
We
have
committed
to
ensuring
that
for
plan
making,
we
will
consider
how
we
will
consult
and
who
we
will
consult
right
from
the
start
in
the
form
of
an
engagement
strategy,
so
we
can
remove
barriers
and
make
consultation,
effective
and
inclusive
for
all.
We
will
also
ensure
that
a
report
of
consultation
is
published
following
the
consultation.
G
G
G
The
idea
of
targets
was
well
received
during
the
consultation
and
when
explained
to
groups
during
neighbourhood
planning
meetings.
Specifically,
the
targets
are
number
one.
We
will
receive
responses
from
every
neighborhood
on
district-wide
plan
making
consultations
two.
We
will
increase
the
positive
feedback
on
accessibility
and
clarity
of
consultation
from
all
groups,
particularly
from
those
rarely
engaged
in
planning
and
three.
We
will
ensure
that
young
people
feel
engaged
and
included
in
planning
consultations
and
have
been
able
to
make
their
views
known
in
a
way
that
is
easy,
accessible
and
fun.
G
We
anticipate
that
these
initial
targets
will
be
expanded
and
become
more
sophisticated
when
we
review
the
sci
after
five
years,
reflecting
on
how
we
have
delivered
on
these
targets
should
also
make
reviewing
the
reviewing
process
easier
and
reporting
on
them
annually
during
the
authority.
Monitoring
report
should
help
improve
transparency
and
demonstrate
our
commitment
to
reflecting
on
and
improving
our
planning
consultations
and
engagement
activity.
A
A
C
C
Resource
sort
of
implications
of
that
are
staffing
resourcing,
because,
obviously
I
know
that
we
as
a
council,
we,
we
have
very
hard
workers,
but
we
also
have
a
lot
of
planning
applications.
So
how
are
we
going
to
balance
that
and
expectations?
I
suppose.
G
Thank
you.
Most
of
the
face-to-face
work
will
be
for
the
larger
plan,
making
consultations
so
for
local
plan
update
two,
which
will
be
forthcoming
shortly.
We
do
anticipate
some
face-to-face
meetings,
but
we're
not
expecting
that
for
every
planning
application.
You
know,
there's
face-to-face
work
with
offices
that
just
that
wouldn't
be
workable.
I
Thanks,
caroline,
I
think,
there's
in
a
sense
there's
possibly
two
things
here:
there's
there's
the
work
that
we
are
doing,
shall
we
say
strategically
in
the
longer
term,
in
terms
of
local
plan.
Update
too
and
caroline's
just
touched
on
that,
but
I
think
there's
other
areas
which
are
currently
ongoing,
that
we
are
planning
on
continuing
to
support
and
in
fact,
in
some
cases,
will
actually
improve
in
that.
In
that
respect,
I'm
I'm
referring
to
neighborhood
planning
and
I'm
referring
to
some
of
the
pilot
work
that's
taking
place.
I
Thankfully,
we've
received
some
funding
from
government
to
pursue
that
and
the
focus
will
be
on
chapel
town
here:
hills,
map,
gate,
lincoln,
green
and
birmington,
and,
whilst
that
isn't
all
of
the
city,
it's
a
big
chunk
of
the
city
that
previously
probably
hasn't
been
engaged
in
the
way
that
we
would
like
it
to
have
been.
So.
I
I
think
I
think
the
lessons
that
we
learn
from
that
from
that
particular
pilot
will
be
really
important,
and
it's
that
pilot,
incidentally,
is
also
about
simplifying
the
neighborhood
planning
process
and,
in
turn,
actually
making
the
resource
implications
less
and
being
able
to
do
other
things
with
a
with
our
time
as
well.
Okay,.
A
Are
you
happy
with
that
counselor
brooks?
Would
you
like
to
come
back?
Okay,
I
mean
it
is.
It
is
quite
striking,
isn't
it
the
the
volume
of
people
who
preferred
the
face-to-face
in
this
day
and
age?
It
was
quite
surprising.
The
question
it
raised
in
my
mind
is
what
proportion
of
the
consultation
that
is
available
to
me.
Do
I
have
to
take
the
initiative
to
go
and
look
for
and
how
much
would
be
just
brought
to
my
attention.
I
I
mean
caroline
might
have
something
to
add
to
this,
but
I
think
I
think
in
some
ways
there's
two
ways
to
look
at
that,
and
it
reflects
perhaps
the
strategy
that
we've
outlined
for
the
for
the
six
sei
more
generally,
and
that
is
there's
effectively
two
types
of
communities
in
the
district.
I
There
are
those
that
are
currently
engaged
under
those
that
are
not
engaged
for
those
communities
that
are
currently
engaged.
There
is
a
level
of
being
proactive.
I
There
are
relationships
already
built
up,
and
people
broadly
know
where
to
find
information,
although
not
exclusively,
but
but
there
is
a
there
is
a
relationship
there
and
that's
something
that
we
can
obviously
improve
and
build
upon,
but
in
terms
of
those
communities
that
are
currently
not
engaged,
that's
where
we
need
to
do
more
work,
and,
as
I
mentioned
in
the
pilot
areas,
whilst
we
can,
we
haven't
got
the
resource
to
do
that.
Intensive
amount
of
work
right
across
the
city.
I
But
those
pilot
areas
is
about
testing
a
different
approach,
which
is
very
much
about
front
loading,
and
it's
very
much
about
actually
working
in
the
community.
Rather
rather
than
expecting
people
to
come
to
us,
we
are,
we
are
going
to
be
going
to
them.
Of
course,
we
can't
do
that.
We
can't
do
that
everywhere,
but
the
funding
has
allowed
us
to
employ
a
community
engagement
officer
to
help
us
to
do
that.
A
Thank
you
for
that
councillor,
carlo.
Please.
D
I
guess
first
comment
is:
I
welcome
the
the
point
around
involving
young
people
in
in
the
plan
and
working
with,
I
assume
it's
gonna,
be
the
voice
and
influence
team
in
there
that
you'll
be
working
with
because
there's
I
mean
I've
been
on
planning
four
and
a
half
years
on
city
plans
battle
and
probably
the
majority
of
the
stuff
that
we've
seen
through
there
won't
be
developed
in
the
time,
I'm
elected
and
who
knows
how
long
I've
gone
for,
and
the
city-wide
plans
are
obviously
have
more
impact
on
young
people's
future
than
they
will
on
many
of
many
of
us.
D
D
I
think
there
is
a
view,
we're
learning
a
lot
in
different
departments
about
consultations,
but
I'm
not
sure
that's
always
together,
I'm
taking
some
my
experience
in
looking
at
highways
ones
where
we've
been
out
and
actively
knocked
on
people's
doors
and
got
the
views
of
all
residents
in
an
area.
It's
been
a
very
different
answer
from
the
same
ones
we've
done
on
on
the
online
portal
for
the
same
consultation.
You
may
have
the
opposite
answer
and
that's
really
interesting
to
see
and
how
we
merge.
D
The
two
of
those
together
is
is
an
interesting
one,
a
couple
of
questions-
and
I
guess,
sir,
the
point
about
every
neighborhood
on
those
district-wide
consultations
is
really
welcome.
I'm
just
wondering
how
we're
defining
neighborhood
in
that
I
represent
a
ward
that
I
call
seven
different
places
within
those
I'm
sure
there
are
many
neighborhoods
and
I'm
sure
all
of
us
feel
the
same
about
that
and
and
therefore
in
my
ward,
unless
there
was
a
representation
across
all
of
those.
D
I
wouldn't
see
that
as
every
neighborhood
specifically,
but
that's
an
incredibly
difficult
task
for
for
yourselves
to
do
and
then
looking
at
the
points
around
people.
Commenting
on
specific
applications,
I
think
one
there
is.
There
are
certain
people
that
will
know
exactly
how
to
comment
on
a
planning
application,
and
there
are
some
people
that
would
have
no
idea
where
to
start-
and
I
level
out
one
just
knowing
where
to
find
an
application
and
to
be
able
to
monitor
them,
but
the
second
is
around.
D
Obviously,
I
think
one
of
the
barriers
between
people
feeling
that
their
comments
haven't
been
taken
on
board
and
feeling
that
they
haven't
had
their
say
is
around
the
fact
that
everything
needs
directing
to
a
material
planning
consideration.
So
they
may
have
been
comments
that
we
can't
take
on
board
because
they're
not
a
material
consideration
in
planning.
However,
people
aren't
always
clear
of
that,
so
it
feels
to
to
people
that
we
haven't
responded
when
in
fact
it's
not
something
we
could
take
on,
and
I
just
wondered
how
we
could
better
respond
to
that.
I
I
But
but
in
terms
of
consultations
that
we
that
we
do
in
the
city,
because,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
people
are
giving
up
the
free
time
to
take
part,
and
they
don't
want
to
be
wasting
their
time.
And
I
think
I
think
we
can.
We
can
do
a
job.
Do
a
job
there
in
terms
of
the
definition
of
a
neighborhood.
That's
actually
imply
a
more
tricky
consideration
and
I
think
I
think
what
we
need.
I
We
need
to
do
some
work
on
that,
but
what
what
what
we
are
planning
on
doing
is
focusing
on
place
and
that's
actually
relating
to
the
focus
on
planning
more
generally
in
the
future,
in
terms
of
place
making
and
20-minute
neighborhoods
and
and
that
and
that
type
of
thing
I
think,
as
caroline
mentioned
earlier,
this
is
a
starting
point
and
you
know
even
within
neighborhoods,
you
have
disagreements
about
which
neighborhood
you're
in
and
which
neighborhood
you're,
not
in
we're,
never
going
to
get
that
right.
I
B
Thank
you
just
in
relation
to
the
the
the
specific
consultation
arrangements
that
you
referred
to
within
development
management.
Councilor
carlill
officers
encourage
developers
to
engage
in
pre-application
discussions
and,
through
those
pre-application
discussions,
also
inc
to
engage
with
their
communities
so
particularly
where
you're
looking
at
large
major
developments
to
really
get
an
early
understanding
of
how
the
local
community
feels
about
that
development
and
engage
with
them.
So
we
do
encourage
that
to
happen
as
part
of
the
development
management
process.
B
Hopefully
before
the
before
the
formal
submission
of
a
planning
application
and
before
the
the
regulatory
clock
for
determination
within
18.
13
weeks
starts
to
tick
as
well.
K
I've
got
a
number
of
points.
One
is
the
the
targets
that
you've
made.
You
mentioned,
they're,
not
measures,
you've
got
no
id
they're,
not
smart
in
any
shape
or
form
they're,
not
specific
they're,
not
measurable,
they're,
not
achievable
they're,
not
realistic
and
they're,
not
time-bound
the
the
targets
that
you
set,
because
you
couldn't
be
held
to
account
on
any
of
them.
Not
one
of
them.
K
So
you
need
to
look
at
how
you're
going
to
have
output
measures
for
your
targets
so
that
we
could
hold
you
to
account
whether
you
have
or
haven't
consulted,
because
you
might
think
you've
consulted
with
a
neighborhood,
but
as
ward
members
we
would
say:
well,
no
sorry
you
haven't,
or
if
it's
a
specific
ward,
you
might
have
consulted
with
the
ward,
but
there
is
actually
a
neighboring
world,
that's
just
as
badly
affected
by
any
particular
planning
application.
K
You
know
if
you
just
if
you
look
at
because
one
of
the
other
things
turning
on
from
that.
Why
you're
not
involving
other
departments,
give
you
the
example
of
highways
highways
consultations
are
diabolical
and
that's
been
nice
about
them
and
when
you
go
to
planning
consultations,
planners
usually
turn
around
and
say
nothing
to
do
with
us.
That's
highways
you'll
need
to
take
that
issue
up
with
highways.
Sorry,
we
it's
not
within
our
remit
to
comment
on
highways
issues.
K
So
you
need
to
take
that
into
consideration.
The
other
thing
is
how
you
get
other
council
departments
to
engage
with
you.
At
the
same
time,
I
give
you
the
examples
of
environmental
health
in
terms
of
noise
and
pollution.
That's
going
to
come
from
certain
developments,
you
know
they
are
not
part
of
it
and
they're
not
obliged
to
be
part
of
it,
but
these
are
the
concerns
that
residents
are
taking
up
locally
in
terms
of
face-to-face.
K
Why
don't
you
agree
to
put
in
that?
You
will
consult
the
local
ward
members
and
take
the
advice
of
the
ward
members
as
to
whether
or
not
they
feel
face
to
face
we'd
be
better
in
this
instance
and
where
and
how
often
so
that
you
work
in
partnership
with
the
relevant
ward
members
rather
than
saying
to
the
war
members.
Sorry,
you
weren't
going
to
get
any
face
to
face
if
it's
necessary
by
the
ward
members,
then
it's
in
my
view.
K
I
think
it's
up
to
the
council
to
facilitate
that
one
of
the
frustrations
that
residents
have
is
they
don't
feel
they've
been
listened
to?
You
could
have
100
people
turning
up
all
of
them,
making
100
different,
salient
points,
and
when
it
comes
to
the
planning
report,
the
planning
officer
says
you
know
this
has
been
raised.
This
has
been
this,
but
we're
satisfied
that
they're
not
concerned
end
of
subjects
as
far
as
they're
concerned.
That's
it.
K
The
planning
officer
has
spoken,
and
you
query
that,
and
even
although
there
are
council
officers
who
actually
agree
with
the
residents,
the
planning
officer
has
the
right
to
quash
whatever
I
are
planning
because
they've
got
the
final
say:
that's
not
clear
as
to
how
you're
going
to
make
yours
prove
to
the
public
you're,
going
to
listen
more
to
the
concerns
that
they're
raising
at
the
moment
we're
not
listening
to
concerns.
If
the
majority
don't
want
something.
K
K
K
You
know:
how
are
you
going
to
deal
with
the
output
of
it,
because
how
many
and
whether
or
not
there
should
be
limit,
you
know
level
set
that
if
you've
gone
out
to
a
community,
for
example,
of
10
000
houses-
and
you
only
get
150
people
responding
to
it,
you
then
got
to
ask:
did
you
consult
widely
enough
or
are
you
listening
to
what
you're
being
told
residents
also
get
very
confused
over
petitions?
K
Everybody
thinks
the
you
know.
You
get
a
thousand
signature
petition
that
only
counts
in
planning
terms,
as
one
objection
really
isn't
it.
People
don't
understand
that
they
think
that
they've
signed
up
and
they've
objected
to
it,
but
they
haven't
actually
objected
to
it,
because
they've
signed
a
petition
and
you're,
never
quite
sure
whether
they
actually
understood
what
they
said
in
the
first
place,
because
that's
what
so?
It's?
How
do
you
get
around
all
of
these
things?
These
are
the
problems
that
residents
have
got
out
there,
not
just
with
planning.
K
Now,
let's
be
clear,
we're
not
just
talking
about
this-
is
generally
the
council
that
people
don't
feel
that
they're
listened
to
by
the
council,
their
council.
They
don't
feel
that
they
listen
to
that.
There
are
specific
issues
locally
and
why
are
they
being
ignored?
That's
the
frustrations
and
I
don't
think,
there's
any
community
since
I've
been
on
council
island
time.
Haven't
it
some
time,
another
approach,
scrutiny
or
council
to
come
along.
K
You
know,
so
we've
got
to
really
do
something
about
it,
but
I
don't
know
how
you
deal
with
some
of
these
things.
It
would
have
been
better
to
maybe
had
a
workshop
approach
with
some
of
us
who
are
interested
to
see
if
we
can
explore
some
of
those
ideas.
Some
of
us
who
have
suffered
badly
with
poor
consultation
in
the
past
and
have
now
got
problems
in
our
world
that
we
did
say
was
going
to
happen,
but
we
were
told
by
officers
won't
happen
and
then
we've
turned
out
to
be
correct.
A
Well,
thank
you
for
raising
that
very
important
list
of
issues
council
anderson,
all
of
which
are
highly
pertinent
for
carolina.
This
part
of
the
meeting
is
known
as
the
council
around
us
list.
If
you
forget
the
order
I'll
remind
you,
I've
made
a
note,
but
they
are
all
valid
and
actually
the
targets
question
was
on
my
list
too,
to
ask
about
measurability
and
and
so
on,
and
I
think
we
just
need
to
bear
in
mind.
As
you're
approaching
the
you
know.
The
responses
to
these
questions.
A
Consultation
is
is
a
very
nebulous
and
difficult
thing
to
do
notoriously
in
every
area,
not
just
in
planning.
Isn't
it
because
you
can't
please
all
the
people
all
the
time
and
whatever
approach
you
take,
you
will
always
find
some
people
feel
misunderstood.
Some
people
feel
they're
not
listened
to.
A
Some
people
feel
that
they
haven't
been
approached
when
perhaps
they
have
it's
a
very
sort
of
unquantifiable
thing:
isn't
it
consultation
and
what
we
can
do
is
we
can
work
harder
and
harder
towards
all
these
points
that
have
been
raised,
but
probably
never
actually
achieve
the
ideal.
But
it's
helpful
councilor
anderson
to
to
kind
of
put
us
on
the
track
of
needing
to
think
about
these,
these
nutty
issues.
A
So
I
believe
the
first
question
was
about
the
measurability
of
targets,
and
I
must
say
that
I
thought
about
this.
They
worked
all
my
life
with
measurable
targets.
How
are
you
going
to
get
a
sense
of
quantifying
them.
I
I
think
I
think,
in
a
very
simple
way,
if
we
were
to
say
that
those
targets
that
we
have
right
now
in
sci
and
and
we
were
to
apply
them
to
the
consultation
that
we've
just
done,
then
we
wouldn't
have
met
all
three
of
those
targets.
I
The
only
target
that
we
have
met
of
those
three
in
this
consultation
would
be
the
good
feedback
that
we
received
in
terms
of
the
accessibility
and
the
plain
english
and
the
general
feel
of
the
document.
So
that
is
something
that,
whilst
it's
not
a
scientific
measurement,
it
is
nonetheless
a
measurement
and
it's
something
that
we
can
follow
on
in
terms
of
the
other.
I
And
yes,
we
could
have
a
debate
about
how
precise
we
could
be
in
terms
of.
Is
it
a
neighborhood?
Is
it
a
place
or
whatever,
and-
and
that
is
something
that
we
can
clearly
do
some
work
on,
especially
with
our
gs,
gis,
capabilities,
etc.
But
I
think
what's
really
important.
Here
is
the
intent
you
know
and
as
far
as,
as
far
as
I'm
aware,
this
is
this
would
be
the
only
sei
in
the
country
that
actually
has
targets
whilst
they're
not
20
or
50
percent,
or
anything
like
that.
I
They
are
going
on
a
journey
and
I
think
it's
the
journey.
That's
the
important
thing
here
and,
and
caroline
mentioned
earlier,
that
the
sei
is
revised
after
five
years,
which
is
true,
but
there's
nothing
stopping
us
from
actually
taking
a
good
long,
hard.
Look
at
those
targets
say
after
a
year.
I
I
I
mean
I
I
I
think
we
should
give
them
a
go.
I
would
welcome
a
con,
a
discussion
on
how
they
can
be
improved
and
how
they
can
be
tightened
up
and
how
they
can
be
made
more
measurable.
I
think
that's
an
excellent
idea
more
than
happy
to
to
facilitate
to
facilitate
that,
but
I
think
we
could
at
some
point
perhaps
at
this
panel
meeting
in
a
year's
time,
reflect
on
those
targets
and
think
about
what
have
we
achieved?
I
How
could
we
have
done
better,
I
think,
probably
the
most
challenging.
One
of
all,
of
course,
will
be
the
target
around
young
people.
We.
We
have
thought
about
these
questions
and
we've
we
thought
well,
we've
got
to
start
somewhere
and,
let's
just
let's
just
say
we
we
had
a
consultation
had
taken
place
and
we
did
make
an
effort
with
young
people
and
we
did
do
a
number
of
events
or
online
engagement,
etc,
but
we
didn't
get
anything
back
well
under
those
circumstances.
I
Clearly
the
thing
that
in
having
that
target,
what
we
would
do
that
perhaps
we
wouldn't
have
done
in
the
past
would
have
been
we
would
have
actually
gone
back
to
a
focus
group
of
young
people
and
said
look.
This
is
what
we
did
hey
did
you
take
part?
If
you
did,
what
did
you
think
you
know?
Was
it?
Was
it
in
fact
easy?
Was
it
accessible?
Was
it
fun
and
for
those
people
who
didn't
take
part?
Why
why
why
didn't
you?
Why
didn't
you
take
part?
I
A
Yeah,
I
know
adam
wants
to
come
in,
but
just
to
respond
a
little
bit
to
that
yeah.
I
I
totally
agree
you
have
to
start
somewhere
and
you
have
you
kind
of
grow
into
understanding.
What
what
a
target
is.
A
The
other
side
of
that,
of
course,
is
that
sometimes
I
think
organizations
when
they're
consulting
in
their
in
their
ambition
to
have
measurable
statistics
at
the
end
of
it
we'll
pick
things
that
are
easily
measurable
but
don't
necessarily
mean
a
great
deal
so,
for
example,
jobs
and
skills
areas
often
count
engagement
with
with
a
trait
with
training,
as
as
something
that
could
be
counted
and
we've
had
16
people
or
we've
had
62
people
on
this
course.
A
Well
that
doesn't
tell
you
whether
they
learned
anything
or
whether
it
helped
them
do
anything
further
or
whether
it
added
to
the
scenario
anyway.
It
just
tells
you
that
you've
had
that
many
people
engaged
in
training,
so
you
can
go.
You
know
just
it's
all
a
question
of
balance
in
my
opinion,
but
I'll
bring
adam
in.
L
It
was
just
to
say
I
mean
I,
I
agree
with
everything
that
ian
has
said
there.
I,
I
think,
if
members
are
seeking
additional
clarity
on
the
wording,
that's
there.
I
think
you'd
be
talking
about
very
small
tweaks
to
be
able
to
make
those
more
measurable
than
perhaps,
if
there's
a
concern
that
they
aren't
at
the
moment
I
mean
I
would
argue
that
the
first
one
is
very
measurable.
You
know
if
we
would
to
agree
that
say
that
neighborhood
was
award
level.
L
Then
it's
very
easy
for
us
to
measure
whether
we
receive
responses
from
every
ward
or
not,
and
we
can.
We
can
continuously
do
that.
And
obviously,
however,
we
define
neighborhood
we'll
be
able
to
to
manage
that.
I
think
increasing
positive
feedback
again
is
something
that
we
we
can
measure
we
can.
We
can
show,
year
by
year
that
we've
received
an
increase
in
positive
feedback
on
every
district,
by
consultation
that
we've
we've
done
or
even
locally
specific
consultations
on
the
third
one.
L
I
think
perhaps
the
only
tweet
you
might
need
to
make
to
that
is
if
you
did
want
to
make
it
more
measurable
now,
rather
than
than
as
ian
suggests,
perhaps
more
time
to
let
these
bed
in
and
understand
how
they're
working
is.
You
know
just
to
see
continuous
improvement,
where
we
could
show
that
there
was
an
increase
across
each
plan.
L
A
K
If
they
can
cover
them
as
they
go
through
because
to
see
how,
if
I'm
the
only
person
raising
it,
then
that's
a
minority
and
based
on
my
way
of
looking
at
things.
If
you've
not
got
a
majority
agreeing
with
something,
then
that's
something
that
you
should
then
maybe
not
take
forward.
To
be
honest,
that's
you
know
might
be,
I
might
think
it's
valid,
but
if
the
majority
don't
agree,
then
that's
the
way
to
me.
We
should
be
doing
our
consultation
as
well.
So
I
said
if
a
majority
of
people
locally
don't
support
something.
K
That
means
it's
not
supported.
It
shouldn't
be
fostered
upon
them.
Despite
planning,
maybe
decide
saying
yes,
you
are
going
to
get
this
well
if
the
local
community
are
saying
no
they're
saying
no
for
a
reason
and
we
should
be
listening
to
them.
So
I'm
quite
happy
if
you
want
to
make
comments
any
of
the
other
points
I've
made,
but
I'm
also
quite
happy
to
park
it
and
see
if
anybody
else
is
willing
to
come
in
and
support
or
contradict
what
I've
said.
M
Thank
you
chair.
It
was
just
an
observation
on
the
on
people
not
feeling
listened
to,
and
I
think
you
know
I
hear
what
you
say,
cause
anderson
and
we
have
had
this
conversation.
I
think,
before
on
other
planning
matters,
I
I
think
in
terms
of
the
sci
there's
a
couple
of
points
here.
M
I
think
the
point
that
ian,
I
think
has
already
made
that
in
embarking
on
consultation,
we
need
to
be
really
really
clear
what
the
scope
of
that
consultation
is,
and
also
the
questions
that
have
been
put
in
terms
of
what
people
can
and
cannot
influence,
because
certain
things
in
planning
are
handed
down
to
us.
Aren't
there
there's
a
national
housing
requirement,
for
example,
that
each
authority
is
expected
to
make
a
contribution
toward
so
that's
the
context
that
we're
in
and
we're
trying
to
deliver
that
to
the
best
of
our
ability
at
a
local
level.
M
But
that
is
something
that's
handed
down
to
us,
given
the
national
perspective
on
that,
but
I
think
in
terms
of
the
feedback
which
I
think
is
in
a
way
what
you're
driving
out
as
well,
people
who
are
engaged
then
want
to
know.
What's
happened
next
to
their
comments,
etc,
etc.
There's
a
there's
a
couple
of
strands
to
that.
One
is
in
terms
of
planning
applications.
M
So
that's
that
that's
the
focus
for
it
there
and
in
terms
of
plan
making,
it
is
tricky
for
people
to
keep
involved
with
the
process
when
these
processes
can
span
several
months
at
a
time.
But
the
convention
that
we
have
is
to
prepare
a
report
of
consultation
at
the
end
of
each
stage
and
then
compile
that
as
part
of
our
submission
when
plans
go
forward
for
independent
examinations.
M
So
the
format
we've
tended
to
use
is
to
try
and
summarize
all
of
the
comments
that
have
been
received
and
then
document
a
response
to
each
of
those
comments
in
a
separate
column.
So
the
idea
behind
that
is
that
there's
transparency
and
clarity
in
the
nordic
trail,
in
terms
of
who
said
what
and
then
that's
submitted
as
part
of
the
evidence
base.
Once
we
go
to
examination.
So
that's
the
process
we're
in
and
that's
what
we
try
and
achieve.
M
Sometimes
it's
not
possible
to
go
into
perhaps
the
level
of
detail
that
certain
representatives
might
want
us
to
go
into,
but
in
terms
of
the
process.
That's
what
we're
setting
out
in
terms
of
demonstrating
that
all
of
the
comments
that
we
have
received
have
been
taken
into
account
in
preparing
those
plans
going
forward.
Thank
you,
chad,.
A
So,
just
before
I
I
go
to
councillor
mckenna
then,
and
just
to
remind
you
the
points
that
have
been
made
and
give
you
an
opportunity
to
comment
if
you'd
like
to
it
was
about
involving
and
liaising
with
other
council
services
across
the
council,
not
just
within
planning
about
consulting
the
public
and
taking
advice
from
local
ward
members
and
dealing
with
people
who
don't
feel
listened
to
and
next
steps
after
the
consultation.
A
So
if
there's
anybody
who
wants
to
say
anything
about
any
of
that
set
of
issues,
please
please
comment
now.
Martin.
B
Thank
you
just
on
the
the
request
we
had
and
it's
a
request
we
took
seriously
because
it
came
from
one
of
the
members
of
the
steering
group
on
the
sci
in
terms
of
applying
this
document
to
other
council
departments.
B
B
That
may
look
a
little
different
from
the
way
that
they're
set
out
here,
but
what
we
can
do
is
we
can
show
how
this
document
has
helped
engage
and
through
the
monitoring
arrangements
that
we're
setting
as
a
baseline,
now,
hopefully
in
years
to
come,
see
some
progress
and
some
improvement
and
I'd
be
quite
happy
to
to
share
that
with
other
departments
of
the
council
and
share
good
practice
and
hope
that,
by
that
we
can
learn
and
equally
learn
lessons
from
from
from
other
parts
of
the
council
as
well.
A
C
Just
sort
of
coming
back
on
what
councilor
anderson
was
saying
about,
you
know
making
sure
that
our
communities
don't
feel
imposed
on
and
it's
our
responsibility
as
a
as
a
council.
To
I
don't
know
what
exactly
was
it?
You
said
because.
K
Some
people,
rather
than
with
them,
and
it's
a
lot
easier
to
go
along
and
get
them
to
come
along
with
you,
rather
than
saying
whether
you
like
it
or
not,
you're
getting
this
even
though
they've
produced
evidence
and
the
council
haven't
produced
any
country
evidence,
but
all
the
council
have
got
is
the
developers
contrary
evidence,
not
any
independent
being
so,
in
other
words,
you've
got
the
independence
of
the
local
residents,
saying
no
to
something
and
you've
got
the
independence
of
the
developers.
K
Saying
yes,
it's
okay,
you
need
somebody
in
between
who's
arbitrating
between
the
two,
because
both
have
got
reasons
why
they're
arguing
a
particular
way.
The
developer
will
always
argue
why
development
is
possible.
Residents
in
the
main
will
always
look
for
reasons
as
to
why
something
shouldn't
take
place
in
the
main,
so
you
need
some
arbiter
in
the
middle
and
that's
where
I
personally
feel
that
planning
officers
can
show
their
independence
by
saying
look.
The
developer
says
this,
but
we're
not
satisfied
that
this
is
actually
answered.
K
The
resident's
concerns,
and
at
the
moment
they
just
take
it
at
face
value
development
plans.
Panel
are
told
to
take
at
face
value
whatever
the
developer
says,
and
if
we
query
it,
the
officers
come
back
and
say
well,
but
that's
what
they
produced
for
us.
Well,
we
need
to
get
independent
stuff
and
that's
where
I'm
concerned
about
that.
K
If
we
were
wanting
to
build
some
student
accommodation
in
your
world,
for
example,
there's
going
to
be
a
big
knock-on
effect,
one
of
the
current
pr
people
who
live
within
your
ward,
then
there's
going
to
be
impacts
on
housing,
sorry
highways
and
there's
going
to
be
an
impact
on
services,
because
if
you've
got
even
greater
concentration
in
a
local
area,
you
know
it
just
it.
How
do
you
go
back
to
these
residents
and
say?
Well
sorry
you're?
Not
we
can't
do
anything
about
this,
but
we're
going
to
do
something
about
that.
K
What's
the
carrot
and
the
stick
that
we're
giving
to
each
red
each
community,
they
get
to
feel
they
get
something
out
of
it
so
that,
if
they're
getting
x,
what
is
being
coming
out
is
a
benefit.
That's
coming
to
the
community
because
of
what
the
developers
will
turn
around
and
say
is:
oh
we're.
Putting
five
million
pounds
worth
of
sell
into
this
and
the
fact
that
the
local
community
can
only
get
a
hundred
thousand
of
that
is
actually
quite
irrelevant
because
the
rest
is
spent,
quite
rightly
by
the
by
the
the
council.
A
B
B
When
we
make
plans,
we
make
policies
and
the
sci
points
out
the
importance
of
that,
but
it
also
plans
in
the
wider
public
interest,
and
I
think,
as
long
as
we
are
clear,
with
people
all
across
leads
as
to
what
the
parameters
of
their
engagement
are,
how
they
can
comment
and-
and
why,
as
I
think
councillor
carlo
mentioned
earlier,
a
material
consideration
might
need
to
be
balanced
against
other
material
considerations.
B
Then
I
think
it
it.
It's
our
responsibility
to
clarify
that,
because
I
think
people
do
understand
that
that
balance
and
they
will
understand
the
strategic
needs
of
the
city.
So
I
think
a
lot
of
the
document
is
about
clarifying
that.
I
think
it's
if
I
think
it's
where
your
issue
arises,
but
but
I
think
you
can
get
there,
but
by
clarifying
that-
and
I
hope
that's
what
the
document
does.
A
Okay,
councillor
brooks
another
comment
on
this
and
then
we'll
move
on
thanks
chair.
C
Yeah,
I
think
I
think,
just
just
to
sort
of
as
a
continuation
of
what
martin
was
saying.
There
is
a
limit
to
our
powers.
I
suppose,
like
you,
you
know
as
well
as
I
do
you
sat
on
planning
for
much
longer
than
I
have
that
it's
it's
not
you
know.
The
the
national
planning
policy
framework
sits
above
the
policies
that
we
can
set.
So
in
effect
we
we
are
having
to.
C
We
are
having
to
comply
with
national,
which
is
not
set
by
the
council,
it's
set
by
tory
government,
and
I
don't
I
don't
mean
to
bring
politics
into
it,
but
like
we,
we
I
think
we
need
to.
I
think
we
need
to
be
very
clear
on
who
it
is.
We
should
be
lobbying,
it
shouldn't,
be
the
council,
it
should
be
national
government.
Whoever
is
impaired.
E
Very
difficult
one
to
communicate
and
get
responses
ian
many
many
years
ago,
when
you
first
just
did
this
job.
I
worked
for
you
to
try
to
set
up
some
neighborhood
planning
and
I
have
to
say
they
failed
miserably
in
my
ward
really
miserably,
and
I
know
you
worked
very
hard
and
we
we
did
our
best,
but
it
appears
to
me
that's
a
huge
gap.
You
talked
about
the
pilot
in
chapel
town
and
map
gate.
Is
there
any
learning
from
that?
E
Perhaps
you
could
pass
on
one
of
the
things
that
has
changed
since
then.
Is
that
new
world
community
center
is
now
a
very
active
community
organization.
They've
got
community
voice
there
and
it
may
well
be
possible
that
we
we
could
look
at
that
again
and
and
do
something
with
it.
E
There
are
potentially
some
very
big
applications
come
up
in
my
ward,
the
old
british
gas,
which
encompasses
only
child
safety
in
the
middle
of
the
roundabout
and
some
of
the
building
to
the
air
to
to
the
side,
it's
quite
a
big
sight
and
there's
also
panels
who
have
already
declared
that
they're
going
to
likely
move
to
the
laurel
valley.
I
think
they've
consulted
workers
and
they're
all
seem
happy
with
that,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
that's
potentially
a
very
huge
site,
not
only
do
they
need
applying
guidance.
E
I
know
that's
beyond
this,
but
clearly
clearly
the
community
should
be
having
says
in
that,
and
there
is
nobody
actually
to
to
make
that
voice
for
for
even
to
be
heard
or
considered
or
not
take
or,
as
many
said,
not
taking
any
notice
to.
I
remember
at
the
time
there
was
very
few
neighborhood
planning
groups
set
up.
I
think
we
worked
very
hard
in
beeston
when
adam
was
the
councillor
and
we
managed
to
achieve
on
there.
E
But
I
I
can't
remember
many
many
other
successes
and
it
does
seem
to
me
where
you
look
at
our
plans
and
all
the
development
david
is
in
inner
areas,
and
these
are
the
people
who
are
practically
voiceless.
E
I
know
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
do
get.
We
get
comments
from
from
neighborhood
planning
groups
in
various
parts
to
the
city
and
sometimes
because
of
our
policies.
E
We
can't
really
take
that
much
knowledge,
but
we
do
try
to
humiliate
what's
happening
and
we
do
try
our
best
on
it,
but
in
the
inner
areas
it
it
is
definitely,
as
barry
said,
it's
happening
to
them,
they
don't
have
any
say
in
it,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
if
we
don't
somehow
engage
with
these
things
that
we
are
going
to
fail,
I
remember
when
the
community
committees
were
being
set
up
chair.
There
was
talk
about
community
committees
having
their
own
planning
group.
E
E
It
does
seem
to
me
ian
and
I'm
not
trying
to
be
too
negative,
that
you
know
it's
a
it's
a
great
opportunity
to
actually
bring
it
to
the
forefront,
but
it
does
seem
to
me.
There
are
gaps,
particularly
in
a
city
where
they're
voiceless,
local
people
are
voiceless,
whether
their
lives
are
too
busy
to
to
to
to
actually
pen
an
objection.
I
mean
usually
the
voice
in
those
communities.
I
have
to
tell
you
care
is
me,
and
probably
in
bramley
you
because
they
complain
to
us.
E
E
A
Thank
you,
council,
mckenna,
really
interesting
point
and
I'll
give
you
an
opportunity
to
comment
on
it
because,
as
you
know,
ian
you
were
talking
about
the
subject
to
an
audience
of
one
quite
recently
in
bramley,
so
it
speaks
for
itself.
I
Thanks
counselor,
I
do
remember
coming
to
new
worldly
community
center.
It
was
probably
about
four
or
five
years
ago
and
the
thing
that
really
struck
me
about
that
was
the
the
passion
and
the
skills
that
lie
within
that
community.
But
the
problem
was-
and
it
was
the
same-
I
guess
in
bramley-
is
that
the
people
who
do
come
out
are
already
involved
in
all
sorts
of
other
things,
and
they
have
limited
time,
but
also,
I
think
we
don't
need
to.
I
We
don't
need
to
wait
a
year
for
the
conclusion
of
this
pilot
in
order
to
learn
some
lessons
actually,
because
I
think
lessons
are
being
learned
already,
which
I
think
we
we
can
apply,
and
I
think
the
key
lesson
for
me-
and
I
think
this
could
be
particularly
relevant
to
harmley
actually,
and
that
is,
is
a
neighborhood
plan,
actually
the
appropriate
tool
for
armley
anyway.
I
Is
it
the
appropriate
tool
for
bramley,
I'm
not
so
sure,
and
and
that's
why
I'm
test
we're
testing
in
this
pilot,
something
that
has
been
set
out
in
the
leveling
up
bill
and
tucked
away
in
that
bill
is
there's
something
called
a
community
priority
statement
and
that's
precisely
what
this
pilot
is
testing
and
I
think
the
thing
that
will
be
really
attractive
to
a
place
like
harmley
or
bramley
in
this
is
that
it's
not
only
limited
to
land
use
planning.
I
Nothing
turns
people
off
more
than
being
told.
Well,
I'm
sorry,
but
you
can't
consider
this
and
you
can't
consider
that
and
the
the
the
interesting
thing
about
this
priority
statement
is
that
it's
setting
out?
Yes,
it's
setting
out
land
use
matters,
but
it's,
but
it's
also
allowing
communities
to
express
other
issues
of
interest
and
concern
and
to
try
and
make
those
links
to
land
use
as
well.
I
I
And
I,
I
think
that's
and
I
think,
when
you
start
having
that
sort
of
debate
in
the
type
of
communities
that
you're
talking
about,
then
the
dynamic
of
the
conversation,
changes
and
people's
ears
will
prick
up
and
they'll.
Think
yes,
there's
an
opportunity
here
to
do
something
different.
N
Well,
thank
you
chair,
but
most
of
things
have
been
covered
by
colleagues,
but
one
point:
I'm
quite
surprised.
No
one
picked
up
with
regards
to
the
consultation,
and
you
mentioned
a
number
of
times
that
hard
to
reach
communities.
N
Now
what
we
have
seen
over
the
last
10
years,
or
so
new
migrant
communities
have
moved
into
lincoln
green
and
there's
no
mention
of
how
did
I
mean
what
process
did
you
use
to
consult
with
those
communities,
especially
when
we
got
a
major
mosque
in
london,
lincoln,
green
and
also
few
churches
on
roseville
road
and
surrounding
areas
with
the
new
migrant
community?
N
And
I
I
would
have
have
thought
that
the
we
we
should
have
used
the
access
to
the
mosque
and
the
local
churches
for
those
new
communities
who
have
just
moved
into
the
area,
not
aware
of
the
the
how
the
system
works,
and
there
are
some
cultural
issues
as
well.
So
did
you
give
any
thoughts?
How
do
we
reach
those
community
at
the
end
of
the
day?
N
Those
communities
are
the
ones
who
are
going
to
live
in
the
area
and
work
in
the
area,
and
those
are
the
communities
which
are
absolutely
important
for
us
because
they
have
close
communications
with
london
and
also
lincoln
green,
because
those
who
live
in
london
at
the
moment
moved
into
london
and
they've
got
relatives.
But
we
also
when
we
talk
about
different
communities.
I
mean
you've
got
like
a
map.
Gate
you've
got
like
one
side
which
we
represent.
N
The
other
side
is
the
lincoln
green
in
lincoln,
green
you've
got
the
council
of
states
and
the
council
blocks.
On
the
other
side,
we've
got
semi
middle
class
people,
professionals
who
live
in
2020
blocks
and
also
city
spaces
and
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
So
I
just
want
to
know
what
efforts
did
you
make
to
reach
those
communities
and
especially
when
we
talked
about
the
pilot
scheme
as
well
chair,
and
I
think
it's
important
that
we
start
with
something
which
have
a
strong
good
foundation
for
the
rest
of
the
city.
N
I
I
It's
really
about
what
we
are
going
to
do,
and
I
think,
in
on
on
that
point,
I've
been
working
very
closely
with
easter
eggs,
who
is
based
in
that
community
and
they're
approaching
this
type
of
engagement
in
a
different
way,
and
I'm
sure
everyone
around
this
table
can
will
recognize
this
when
you
when
you,
when
you
have
discussions
with
communities
and
you
talk
about
planning
policy,
it's
not
the
easiest
discussion
to
be
had,
let's
be
honest,
it
can.
It
can
be
a
challenge
to
engage
on
on
that.
I
So
it's
a
very
difficult
discussion,
but
when
you
start
talking
about
place
that
dynamic
of
that
discussion
changes
because
people
are
interested
in
the
places
that
they
live
in,
especially
if
it's
people
who
have
just
moved
to
a
place
and
they're
hungry
to
understand
it,
they're
hungry
to
to
take
part
in
it
and
that's
why
we're
working
on
this
pilot
doing
something
completely
different,
which
is
a
national
first,
which
is
using
art
and
culture
and
artists
to
actually
engage
with
those
communities
not
only
with
those
communities
but
with
the
community.
I
More
generally,
there
is
a
summer
school
taking
place
on
the
11th
and
12th
of
august
in
the
area
and
that's
focused
mainly
on
young
people.
I
It's
a
free
event
and
the
pilot
funding
is
helping
to
pay
for
refreshments
and
a
crash,
and
that
type
of
thing
so,
and
that's
a
really
good
example
of
how
we're
trying
to
do
things
differently
there.
But
it's.
It
is
a
challenge,
but
it's
also
an
opportunity
and
that's
in
coming
coming
back
coming
back
to
the
targets.
I
This
is
about
actually
fulfilling
one
of
those
targets
and
that
that
neighborhood
or
that
series
of
neighborhoods
actually
being
actively
involved
in
planning
and
in
in
their
place.
So
I
think
I
think
it's
a
real
opportunity,
but
it's
more
about
looking
forward
than
than
than
looking
looking
back.
N
Chair
chair,
I'm
quite
pleased
we're
talking
about
the
future
now,
even
though
I've
been
in
this
building
for
on
and
off
for
the
last
27
years,
and-
and
it
is
every
time
you
raise
such
an
issue
as
just
what
I
have
raised-
we
get
the
same
answer
or
we
will
do
it,
but
you
know
I
hope
we
won't
be
here
in
10
years
time
saying
that
we
haven't
done
it.
Let's
move
on
and
do
something
positive
for
the
communities.
N
Honestly,
I
do
have
a
concern
with
those
migrant
communities
who
have
just
moved
into
the
city
and
I
think
we
should
be
getting
them
engaged
now,
while
we
come
rather
than
is
too
late,
and
I
think
these
are
the
communities
who
will
make
the
difference
and
if
I,
if
I
may
share
jim,
is
absolutely
right
when
it
comes
to
the
planning
issues.
It's
the
local
councillors
who
pick
things
up
in
our
communities.
I
mean
wards
like
whether
it
be
for
example
or
outskirts.
N
N
They
are
living
in
a
below
the
national
salary,
as
we
as
we
talked,
so
they
rely
on
the
counselors,
and
I
I
rather
see
and
given
the
empowerment
to
those
communities
and
see
if
we
can
bring
those
communities
on
board
and
and
they
can,
they
can
tackle
their
own
issues
and
happy
to
work
with
them.
But
I
like
to
give
the
empowerment
to
the
communities
and
and
work
along
with
them.
I'm
really
pleased
what
you
just
said
that
let's
look,
let's
look
for
the
future
and
get
let
this
go.
Those
communities
engaged.
N
A
Thanks
javid
all
very
helpful
points:
councillor
lam,
thank
you
for
your
patience.
J
Thank
you,
chair
and
well
when
I,
when
I
first
put
my
hand
up
about
a
week
ago,
I
had
I
had
one
quick
point
I
was
going
to
make
and
then
it's
now
a
barry
anderson
style
list.
I
think
so
so
just
to
to
respond
to
some
of
that
I
wanted
to
start
by
saying
I
don't
want
to
be
too
negative
about
the
document,
because
actually
the
fact
that
we're
doing
it
and
the
work
that's
been
done
and
the
quality
of
the
work.
J
J
So
that's
a
starting
point
to
to
pick
up
on
what
council
mckenna
said
about
and
a
little
bit
on
what
council
actor
just
said,
and
I
would
I
accept
our
the
areas
we
represent
are
very
different,
but
I
always
have
to
make
the
point
that
it
is
not
exclusively
professional
people
with
with
good
incomes.
There's
lots
of
people
who
are
in
similar
situations
to
to
people
in
your
ward
and
they're
difficult
to
engage
as
well
from
the
point.
Councilman
mckenna
made
it.
J
It
is,
and
it's
not
always
the
case
that
just
because
it's
that
kind
of
area
people
get
involved,
we
actually
had
to
work
really
hard
to
get
our
communities
engaged
in
neighborhood,
planning
and
localism,
and
we
did
from
our
community
committee
funding
from
the
localism
officer
who
worked
closely
with
ian,
and
it
wasn't
just
the
fact.
Oh
well,
we'll
do
it
and
our
area
suddenly
rushed
forward
and
the
thing
that
struck
my
mind
was
actually
about
communities
like
yours
was.
J
I
think
it
was
holbeck
that
did
the
what
was
it
hold
back
called
beast
and
that
had
the
what's
holbeck
yeah
and
they
got
a
national
award
along
with
walton
in
my
ward
for
their
their
neighborhood
plans,
and
it
shows
that
you
can
get
those
communities
to
engage
and
there
was
a
fantastic
quality
piece
of
work
that
they
did.
So
it
can
be
done.
J
But
you
have
to
be
proactive
everywhere
and
I
think
it's
why
we
have
to
have
the
right
level
of
people
to
to
get
involved
and
do
the
work
and
support
and
encourage
communities
to
to
get
involved
and
engaged
and
to
realize
it
can
make
a
difference.
J
So
that's
the
first
point.
I
wanted
to
make
a
point
on
the
the
measuring,
because
I
agree
with
you,
chair
and
council
anderson
there's
two
parts
to
it
that
one
we've
got
to
be
able
to
sit
in
a
year's
time
and
say
right
well
how
what
difference
has
any
of
this
made
and
the
bit
that's
missing?
Is
we
talk
about
in
children's
services,
a
lot
the
so
what
question?
J
So
it's
one
thing
that
we
get
people
engaged,
but
did
that
make
any
difference
and
that's
what
matters
to
people
actually
more
people
will
get
engaged
if
they
think
it
will
make
a
difference
and
to
me
they're
the
two
things
that
we
have
to
measure.
One
did
more
people
from
a
more
diverse
part
of
the
city,
get
engaged
and
two
did.
They
feel
like
it
made
a
difference,
and
I
think
there
are
things
that
we
can
measure
and
say
right.
J
Actually,
that's
telling
us
if
it's
made
made
a
difference
or
not
and
the
final
point
which
what
I
was
going
to
make
start
with
is
actually.
This
is
called
the
statement
of
community
involvement.
It's
heavily
focused
around
consultation,
but
actually
I
think
the
most
important
thing
is
how
we
embed
it
in
our
culture.
That's
coming
back
to
council
anderson's
point
it's
about
making
sure
communities
always
feel
that
we
work
with
them,
not
doing
things
to
them
and
that
we're
not
expecting
that
developers
do
that.
We're
demanding
that
developers
do
that
and
it
should
be.
J
The
defaulting
leads
that
at
the
very
earliest
stage
you
go
if
it's
a
single
planning
application
for
an
extension.
You
should
talk
to
your
neighbors
first
before
you
do
anything
and
it
should
go
up
the
scale
the
same.
If
you
want
to
wanted
to
build
a
thousand
houses
before
you
think
of
anything,
you
should
be
talking
to
people
and
seeing
how
they
feel
and
what
the
impact
is
going
to
be
and
how
you
can
work
with
them.
J
And
when
that
happens,
you
get
better
development
and
better
communities,
and
we've
seen
that
over
and
over
again-
and
that's
the
key
thing
for
me.
What's
in
the
document
is
important:
it's
actually
embedding
the
culture
across
the
service
that
this
is
how
we
work,
and
this
is
what
we
demand
from
developers.
A
Well,
thank
you
for
that.
A
very
fitting
final
contribution,
if
I
might
say
so,
alan.
I
think
the
most
important
thing
that
you
you've
kind
of
summarized
with
is
this
issue
of
culture,
because
we're
all
counsellors
for
wards.
So
so
our
job
is
to
talk
to
people
and
involve
people
and
consult
with
people,
and
it's
a
skill
set
that
we've
grown
as
we've
done,
that
caroline
and
ian
are
community
officers
and
they
do
the
same
thing.
A
You
you've
gathered
those
skills
as
you've
gone
along
and
you've
experienced
talking
with
people
and
understood
the
huge
diversity
of
response
that
you
get
when
you
do
that.
Builders
hitherto
and
developers
have
simply
built
houses
and
didn't
take
the
profit.
A
So
I
think
you're
right
when
you
highlight
the
challenge
in
embedding
that
culture
of
actually
wanting
to
talk
to
people,
because
we
don't
want
to
talk
to
people
to
make
a
profit,
do
we
we
want
to
talk
to
people
to
make
a
difference
for
them,
and
I
think
that's
the
fundamental
difference
that
we
have
to
overcome,
and
I
think
it's
a
really
interesting
discussion
point
and
something
I'd
like
us
to
take
forward
and
think
about
in
stages.
We've
covered
a
huge
amount
of
ground
in
today's
discussion.
A
F
Most
of
mine
have
already
been
highlighted,
but
counselor
love
money
go
on
my
topic
and
planning
the
public.
Don't
understand,
planning
how
the
public
and
know
to
approach
planning
is
when
an
application
next
door
or
somewhere
in
the
area
puts
up
and
it's
not
in
their
favors.
Then
they
come
to
us.
The
council
is,
we
are
the
wonder
of
the
channel.
I
deprive
a
democratic
ward,
rich
middle
class,
paul
down
in
chapel
town,
for
instance,
no
clue
of
planning.
We
do
have
a
neighborhood
planning,
chapel
allerton
a
bit
knowledgeable,
but
go
back.
F
It's
not
just
planning
it's
the
communication
in
the
community,
I'm
going
back
to
active
travel
when
it
was
getting
done.
It's
only
a
month
before
it
went
in
place,
it
came
and
rose
through.
We
didn't
have
time
to
communicate
with
our
community
and
that's
what
it
is,
and
this
is
what
it
is
with
planning
page
20,
one
two
one:
how
can
you
be
more
involved
in
planning?
F
F
A
Thank
you,
councilman
taylor
also
very
helpful,
and
it
just
brings
me
to
one
final
point.
I
can't
leave
a
meeting
without
talking
about
young
people,
of
course,
and
I
know
that
councillor
hayden
has
an
ambition
to
involve
primary
schools
in
this
consultation,
as
well
as
the
the
younger
people
in
our
secondary
schools
and
colleges,
and
I
would
say
that
we
we
do
need
to
look
at
the
language
of
this.
A
If
we're
going
to
involve
younger
children,
and
I
think
the
document
has
to
be
rewritten
in
a
different
sort
of
way,
because
the
very
central
point
that
you
made
about
people
don't
understand
planning
children
certainly
don't
understand
planning
in
the
abstract
way
that
we
present
it
here.
So
I'm
sure
colleagues
from
children's
services,
or
indeed
from
schools,
would
be
happy
to
work
with
you
on
something
that
will
work
for
young
younger
children,
which
is
yeah.
F
When
the
environment
was
just
coming
out,
we
have
to
save
the
planet
and
whatever
we
work
very
closely
in
chapel
alton's
with
our
primary
school.
We
take
them
and
they
do
a
little
picking
and
to
train
them
and
there
was
the
one
who
was
going
home
to
the
parents
telling
their
parents.
You
don't
drop
that
there.
You
don't
do
that.
F
Kids
is
education
to
some
parents,
counselor
actor!
Just
talk
about
language
barriers,
a
lot
of
parents
at
home,
don't
understand!
But
I'm
sure,
if
you
work
with
primary
schools,
those
kids
will
be
your
agonies
to
take
it
back
home
to
their
parents.
For
that's
what
it's
all
about.
You
know
and
that's
what
you
need
to
look
at.
C
I'd
just
like
to
thank
the
team
for
this
document.
It's
been
worked
on
for
a
very
long
time
and
getting
a
statement
of
community
involvement
right
for
a
city
is
diverse
in
every
possible
way
is
leads
and
fabulous
as
leads
is,
is
always
going
to
be
tricky,
and
I
think
it's
a
really
welcome
document,
and
it
it's
the
starting
point,
isn't
it
this
is
where
it's
what
we
do
with
this
document
that
that
that
counts.
I
concur
that
and
support
the
statements
made
about
children
and
young
people.
C
People
around
the
table
know
it's
a
particular
passion
of
mine
to
get
that
generation
involved,
but
particularly
with
planning,
because
they're,
the
ones
that
are
going
to
have
to
live
with
these
decisions
for
decades
to
come.
When
you
know,
I'm
no
longer
here
and
pushing
up
daisies,
as
my
granddad
always
said,
so
it's
yeah
they're,
the
ones
that-
and
I
I
bet
my
last
pound
in
my
purse-
that
they'll
actually
have
a
better
understanding
of
planning
than
we
would
do.
C
So
yeah
I'd
just
like
to
leave
there,
but
a
huge
thank
you
to
everyone
involved
with
developing
this
document
and
it's
what
we
do
with
it
now
going
forward.
It
is
the
most
important
thank
you.
A
B
Thank
you
chair,
yes,
so
what
will
happen
now
subject
to
dpp's
approval?
Is
that
officers
will
continue
to
work
on
the
technical
language,
as
they've
indicated,
the
summary
will
be
produced
and
a
summary
which
can
be
read
by
a
child
as
well.
I
I
I
would
suggest,
or
certainly
elements
of
that
and
then
subject
to
the
executive
board
member.
B
The
chief
planning
officer
can
sign
this
off
and,
as
council
hayden
rightly
says,
then
it's
about
implementing
it
and-
and
I
think,
as
we
bring
back
reports
to
this
panel,
all
the
reports
do
set
out
a
statement,
a
section
for
consultation.
So
I
think
the
comments
that
members
have
been
making
today.
We
will
seek
to
to
address
those
in
that
section
and
hopefully
engage
on
that
in
a
lot
more
detail
as
we
come
back,
particularly
in
terms
of
the
development
plan,
work.
B
Yeah
thanks
council
lamb,
yes
and
we'll
have
a
look
at
the
smartening
up
those
those
targets
as
well.
Yeah.
A
Okay,
so
thank
you
very
much.
The
date
and
time
of
the
next
meeting
is
on
the
bottom
of
the
agenda
and
thank
you
for
such
an
interesting
debate
this
afternoon.
That
concludes
our
formal
public
meeting
and,
as
I'm
sure,
you've
been
made
aware
we're
going
to
follow
that
up
now
with
an
informal
workshop
that
is
not
in
the
public
domain
yet
so
I
suggest
that
we
have
a
two
or
three
minute
break
comfort
break
and,
if
you'd
be
good
enough
to
return
to
for
the
second
part
of
our
meeting
this
afternoon,.